# A&E waiting times in England hit worst-ever level



## Northerner (Nov 14, 2019)

One in six patients waited longer than four hours in A&E in England during October – the worst-ever performance since a target was introduced in 2004, according to data.

Just 83.6% of patients arriving at A&E were treated or admitted in four hours, figures from NHS England show.

The shadow health secretary, Jonathan Ashworth, said: “The Conservatives have ushered in the worst NHS crisis on record. Under Boris Johnson the NHS is in crisis and we’re heading for a winter of abject misery for patients.
“Our A&Es are overwhelmed, more so than ever. In every community there’s an ever-growing queue of people waiting for treatment. The Tories spent a decade cutting over 15,000 beds. Now they should apologise to every patient languishing on a trolley and waiting longer for treatment.”

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/nov/14/ae-waiting-times-in-england-hit-worst-ever-level


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## everydayupsanddowns (Nov 14, 2019)

Winter is always a difficult time for the health service. And difficulties in the social care system seem to add extra pressures as it’s harder to get people through the system and out of hospitals as there is nowhere for them to go  And with beds occupied outside of A&E make it harder to clear spaces there too.

Thank goodness both main parties are making significant funding pledges to the NHS in their campaigns.


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## Northerner (Nov 14, 2019)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Winter is always a difficult time for the health service. And difficulties in the social care system seem to add extra pressures as it’s harder to get people through the system and out of hospitals as there is nowhere for them to go  And with beds occupied outside of A&E make it harder to clear spaces there too.
> 
> Thank goodness both main parties are making significant funding pledges to the NHS in their campaigns.


I think the main point being made on the news is that we're not even into winter yet, so it's only likely to get worse  Understaffing and the pressures from inadequate social care provision also need to be addressed. I seem to remember that Theresa May promised a Green Paper on funding social care shortly after the 2017 election - we're now into another election and nothing has ever materialised


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## grovesy (Nov 14, 2019)

They keep stalling on the green paper, it should have been released earlier in the year.


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## Sally71 (Nov 14, 2019)

I wish I could believe that more money would definitely be given to the NHS if either of the main parties won the election; sadly though I think they will say anything to make you vote for them and then won't stick to their promises, that seems to be how most MPs think these days


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## Northerner (Nov 14, 2019)

Sally71 said:


> I wish I could believe that more money would definitely be given to the NHS if either of the main parties won the election; sadly though I think they will say anything to make you vote for them and then won't stick to their promises, that seems to be how most MPs think these days


When Labour won in 1997 they rebuilt the NHS after it fell into similar decline in the 1990s with some of the highest levels of investment in its history. Unfortunately, they also introduced PFI, but that ain't going to happen again!


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## Pumper_Sue (Nov 14, 2019)

I had a 6 hour wait in A&E at the beginning of October, then another 3 hour wait on a ward for a bed. Not good from my perspective but the staff were working their socks off and doing everything in their power to help the patients.


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## grovesy (Nov 14, 2019)

I was suprised they have barely mentioned they only started collecting  the statistics since 2004, yet keep banging about since statistics began collection as if they have been doing it for decades.


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## trophywench (Nov 14, 2019)

Northerner said:


> When Labour won in 1997 they rebuilt the NHS after it fell into similar decline in the 1990s with some of the highest levels of investment in its history. Unfortunately, they also introduced PFI, but that ain't going to happen again!



This is true and that would have soon become apparent anyway BUT when the Tories got back in, the good things which Labour had introduced were in full effect and staff morale and staffing levels were on an absolute high for the first time in decades.  The Tories simply wrecked all the good work - and made it far worse than it had been in 1997.

None of em can ever admit they were wrong about anything and that's what I find obnoxious - anyone who works in an office knows if you have something you know is going to take ages to sort out, in your IN tray  - if you leave it 'for later' it will actually keep getting worse as time goes on and I always told people if they didn't deal with it pdq it would do the non medical equivalent of turning septic, soon stinking the place out and cause them more problems and take em even longer to put right so that would be stupid!  

But of course I forget to take into account that so very few of em have ever had a proper job and haven't a clue what life is like for normal people.


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## grovesy (Nov 14, 2019)

I must have been working in a different  service I don't remember morale and staffing levels being high. They all use as a political pawn.


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## Northerner (Nov 14, 2019)

trophywench said:


> This is true and that would have soon become apparent anyway BUT when the Tories got back in, the good things which Labour had introduced were in full effect and staff morale and staffing levels were on an absolute high for the first time in decades.  The Tories simply wrecked all the good work - and made it far worse than it had been in 1997.
> 
> None of em can ever admit they were wrong about anything and that's what I find obnoxious - anyone who works in an office knows if you have something you know is going to take ages to sort out, in your IN tray  - if you leave it 'for later' it will actually keep getting worse as time goes on and I always told people if they didn't deal with it pdq it would do the non medical equivalent of turning septic, soon stinking the place out and cause them more problems and take em even longer to put right so that would be stupid!
> 
> But of course I forget to take into account that so very few of em have ever had a proper job and haven't a clue what life is like for normal people.


My Mum was a ward clerk for over 20 years and I remember her telling me how downhill things went in the 90s - she ended up retiring a year early because of the stress and pressures


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## trophywench (Nov 14, 2019)

Better hope the Lib Dems are better at it than the other two and do all we can to get em in then!


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## Docb (Nov 15, 2019)

trophywench said:


> Better hope the Lib Dems are better at it than the other two and do all we can to get em in then!



Policies don't seem to be any use so maybe the Brexit party would be even better cos they have not got a policy.


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## JTilley2000 (Nov 15, 2019)

I had to wait 2 hours (including 45 mins waiting outside in an ambulance) to get into A&E so I could get stitches. Then another 2 hours before I got put on insulin. Then had to wait 7 hours to get a bed in the ward for the night. And that was Monday 11th.


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## mikeyB (Nov 15, 2019)

The simple way to sort this out would seem to be vote SNP. Those same figures in Scotland, measured in the same way, are in the region of 90%. 

Boris, of course, landed on this figure to berate the SNP, and threatened to take over running the Scottish NHS (thereby guaranteeing nearly every Scottish Tory MP getting a new job on Dec 13). I assume that's so he can get the Scottish NHS down to the shambolic state of NHS England, which I am currently experiencing for myself.


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## grovesy (Nov 15, 2019)

Nice to see you back Mike.


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## trophywench (Nov 15, 2019)

JTilley2000 said:


> I had to wait 2 hours (including 45 mins waiting outside in an ambulance) to get into A&E so I could get stitches. Then another 2 hours before I got put on insulin. Then had to wait 7 hours to get a bed in the ward for the night. And that was Monday 11th.



Meanwhile of course there were people having heart attacks, dying of stab wounds etc in your area who couldn't even get an ambulance cos they were all sitting in the queue outside A&E - not your fault obviously - but happens every year, doesn't it?  I smashed my kneecap in October two years ago and A&E was normal service plus I got a bed and everything proceeded well.  After that I was back there 'very often' during that winter to check on progress and by then, ill people on trolleys waiting to be seen had spread into the X-ray department so once I'd progressed onto crutches I was sometimes having to stand whilst waiting - a ruddy relief to get onto the X-ray table for a rest LOL

It just has such a knock-on effect through the whole hospital on so many many people's lives - and I wasn't ill.


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## grovesy (Nov 15, 2019)

My son was sent to A&E a few weeks ago by 111 service. He had been hit on the head a few days before, with a hockey ball, and having headaches. I was suprised when he was home having been there approximately 4 hours. 
I was not aware of him been hit by the ball , until he came in fro  work that evening .


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## Grannylorraine (Nov 16, 2019)

I'll be honest I haven't read the article, but basing this reply on my dad's recent visit to A&E.  Dad was seen immediately, but that was because he was blue lighted having had a heart attack.  A&E were fantastic with him,  but despite him going to hospital at 4pm in the afternoon was still in A&E the next morning when we got there at 10.30 as there were no beds on either Cardiac ward or even the general holding ward, so the whole time my dad was held in A&E that was taking up a bed that was desperately needed because they had no where to move patients onto, so their is the wider issue of not enough beds on the wards.  

But more importantly was the stupid things that people came into A&E with and then complained how long they were having to wait, quite a few of which did not need to be there especially at a time of day when the minor injuries clinic was open.

Then there was the abusers, yes needed to be at the hospital, but took up so much of the staffs time with complaints, one next to my dad spent about 15 minutes just ranting at a nurse about her attitude, then his visitors chipped in to give the nurse abuse all because she hadn't got him another blanket straight away, what a waste of her time, and yes I know I was listening in, but he was there because he had taken a bad batch of whatever drug it was, so while I understand he needed the treatment and that probably added to his mental state of keep demanding things and abusing the nurses, I was getting cross that he was actually there due to it being self inflicted.

Sorry long winded way of saying if people only used A&E when it was absolutely necessary and let the staff get on with treating them once they were there instead of taking up valuable time abusing staff maybe the waiting times would not be so long.


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## grovesy (Nov 16, 2019)

Not everywhere have minor injuries clinics or walk in centres. We have never had a minor injuries and our walk in centre closed a few years ago.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Nov 16, 2019)

grovesy said:


> Not everywhere have minor injuries clinics or walk in centres. We have never had a minor injuries and our walk in centre closed a few years ago.



plus I think one of the challenges is the massively overstretched GP service. If people have to wait two or three weeks to see a GP about something and they feel the matter is more urgent unless they consult NHS111, A&E is their first port of call.


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## grovesy (Nov 16, 2019)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> plus I think one of the challenges is the massively overstretched GP service. If people have to wait two or three weeks to see a GP about something and they feel the matter is more urgent unless they consult NHS111, A&E is their first port of call.


I think they closed our walk in centre , as it did not reduce the attendances at A&E . That is what I read into the reasons given for closure.


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