# "The Hospital" CH4 Prog on Diabetes Mon 16th August 9pm



## Sugarbum

As the title says! 

You may have seen the trailer on Channel 4 on-going but it is actually next week that the programme covers diabetes, by the looks of it, lots of teens too and quite a bit of rebellion....

Ive been a fan of "The Hospital" since the first series for telling it like it is. Thsi series is just as good.

...I urge you all to tune in next week!


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## rossi_mac

Cheers Lou, keep bumping it up nearer the time, for us memory challenged folk!


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## Steff

Ahhh you beat me to it Lou, i reckon a good idea would be to bump this nearer the time as people are likely to forget x


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## scotty

Thanks for tht sugarbum will tune in and have a watch


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## Sugarbum

The trailer had this teen (i am guessing) welcoming people at a party, a bit wasted, saying "guess what, havnt taken any insulin all day, me"! Or something to the like? "I'll take some when I get home, honest".

I'm sure it will be compelling watching....


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## D_G

I was wondering when it was going to be the diabetes episode, i have been watching all of them so far to see when it would come up lol! Should be an interesting watch


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## Freddie99

Sugarbum said:


> The trailer had this teen (i am guessing) welcoming peole at a party, abit wasted, sating "guess what, havnt taken any insulin all day, me"! Or something to the like? "I'll take some when I get home, honest".
> 
> I'm sure it will be compelling watching....



Something that'll make me shout at my laptop when I watch it. More importantly I'll want to go and crack the induviduals concerned one or two...


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## scootdevon

*I'll watch it next week if i remember lol *


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## shiv

Anyone watch this week's? That blonde girl  "I'd eat a spider" I thought one of the doctors put it very well...people in less economically developed countries don't have such body worries thus don't ask for operations to be paid for (like the blonde girl!!)


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## Steff

shiv said:


> Anyone watch this week's? That blonde girl  "I'd eat a spider" I thought one of the doctors put it very well...people in less economically developed countries don't have such body worries thus don't ask for operations to be paid for (like the blonde girl!!)



yeah i watched when i was not hiding behind my cushion lol. silly !


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## Twitchy

Thanks Sugarbum, it's in the planner!  

Not sure it's going to be easy viewing though... at least I'll know what people at work are on about though if they start making odd comments diabetes / complications related!   Lets all hope it doesn't generalise or stereotype...fingers crossed!  Thanks for flagging it up


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## Catwoman76

Sugarbum said:


> As the title says!
> 
> You may have seen the trailer on Channel 4 on-going but it is actually next week that the programme covers diabetes, by the looks of it, lots of teens too and quite a bit of rebellion....
> 
> Ive been a fan of "The Hospital" since the first series for telling it like it is. Thsi series is just as good.
> 
> ...I urge you all to tune in next week!


I watched it last night, but I missed the trailer, my legs were bad again and I have to keep walking up and down stairs and around the house but I will be tuned in for the prog next week. Sheena


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## tracey w

Sugarbum said:


> The trailer had this teen (i am guessing) welcoming peole at a party, abit wasted, sating "guess what, havnt taken any insulin all day, me"! Or something to the like? "I'll take some when I get home, honest".
> 
> I'm sure it will be compelling watching....



yes, ive seen the trailer and that left me gobsmacked, been looking forward to watching it.


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## traceycat

thanks for letting us know, ill be tuning in for sure


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## sofaraway

Can't wait to watch this. Didn't realise the whole episode was goiing to be diabetes related. 

Love this series. We have all been saying "I'd even eat a spider" at work today.


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## katie

this is quite exciting, wish it was on this week


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## Ruth Goode

Thanks for letting us know, I'll put it on sky-plus in case I forget, look forward to it and hope it's a positive one


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## Monica

Set to record, thanks for letting us know. Don't normally watch that programme.


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## Sugarbum

No worries.....it will also be on 4 on demand (online) afterwards.

I think it's going to be love it, hate it, eye-opening, cringe-worthy and possably infuriating depending on if we are well represented.....who knows?


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## sofaraway

Which hospital is it set in anyone know ?


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## bev

Hi Lou, 
I have never watched this programme - what sort of format does it take? Is it 12 year old friendly? Sounds interesting.Bev


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## rossi_mac

I've hit the record button on the epg, so if memory fails and no power cut we should be good!

Good question from Bev  for all with youngsters, anybody know the answer?


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## Steff

rossi_mac said:


> I've hit the record button on the epg, so if memory fails and no power cut we should be good!
> 
> Good question from Bev  for all with youngsters, anybody know the answer?



From the 2 that i have seen one was about stabbing victims and last weeks about surgery etc etc, i'd say not such a good thing for them to watch but thats just my opinion if i was my C who is only 3 years younger then Alex but if he was 12 id not let him watch, but on the other hand it would be an eye opener , tough one.


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## Northerner

rossi_mac said:


> I've hit the record button on the epg, so if memory fails and no power cut we should be good!
> 
> Good question from Bev  for all with youngsters, anybody know the answer?



Could record and watch it first and then make a judgement


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## Sugarbum

A clip from the channel 4 website, a synopsis of the next episode....

"One in five patients at the Mayday University Hospital in Croydon are there because of diabetes. The programme illustrates the difficulties in treating young diabetics, as staff struggle to make them reconcile the seriousness of their condition with their lifestyle choices.

Diabetes is fast becoming the single biggest drain on NHS resources. Treating the disease and its complications currently costs ?1 million every hour, using up to 10% of the NHS's annual budget, and figures are rising rapidly. 

'There are 15 or 16,000 diabetics in Croydon, where I work' says Dr Richard Savine, who is treating more and more patients. 'As it is an awful lot of people who I end up taking ultimate responsibility for, I rarely think about it in those terms. I'd probably go mad if I started thinking about the size of the problem.' 

Due to increasingly poor diet and a lack of exercise, type 2 diabetes is being picked up in increasingly young patients, so much so that a new diabetic is now diagnosed every three minutes in the UK. NHS workers like Dr Savine and his staff are dealing with potentially a ticking time bomb of young people who, at middle age, will have heart diseases and strokes, and need kidney transplants. 

To target young diabetics, Dr Savine has set up a special monthly clinic. Each afternoon costs the Mayday approximately ?10,000. But some patients frequently don't bother to show for their appointments. Patients like 15-year-old Francesca, who also doesn't always test her blood sugars for her type 1 diabetes, and was rushed to hospital in a diabetic coma brought on by a prolonged bout of binge-drinking. Despite this she says: 'I don't let my diabetes run my life. I do what I want to do, when I want to do it.'

In answer to Bevs question I think Alans suggestion is possably the best idea. I know there is stuff included on this about complications. If if gets grim, I guess there is the worry that pulling Alex away from is going to create a problem or atmosphere or raise other issues....or on the other hand, perhaps the program will raise issues he wants to discuss? Tricky...

But the most appealing thing to me is the reality, but they do it in an 'edgy' way. I think I would go with the watch it first approach.

The week before last was excellent about the stabbings and how it affects NHS services. Really, really well researched and produced. Its still on 4 on demand if anyones interested in it (sorry, I will stop plugging this program now!).

Nikki, I think it moves about as the stabbing one was at a different hospital. This one is obviously based at the Mayday. The last in the series I have heard is at Kings in the renal unit I think it was- should be good.


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## Freddie99

I'll be interested to watch all of this. Going by the trailer it will be a perfect example of how not to behave as a diabetic. Then again, on occaision neither am I. As I've experienced the old scare stories as a child I know for one they don't work. This will be a better form of scare story that will actually work because they will be able to see it. 

Bev, 

For me letting anyone younger watch that is rather borderline. If he really wants to see what'll happen later on if he lets it all go then let him. If he's not sure then don't.


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## novorapidboi26

I too have been enjoying this series.........cant wait for the diabetes episode........it will bring back memories........although I didnt have an attitude about the condition just forgot to test and sometimes jag as there so much more interesting things happening when your a teen.......


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## Monica

I will watch it first and then I'll decide whether I should "make" C watch it. I don't want to scare her if it's not necessary. She's very good about her Diabetes at the moment and I don't want to spoil that. I might just not delete it off the harddrive, so that I can show it to her at a later date if necessary


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## katie

Hi Bev,

I watched a couple of the other episodes the other night (and i'm addicted!!).  It has quite a bit of swearing etc in it, so if Alex doesn't usually watch that kind of stuff, he probably shouldn't watch it.  I can't think what I watched at that age


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## Steff

*BUMP*


Just incase anyone missed Lous original post last week, hope everyone will be watching.


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## Smit

I have been desperate to watch the diabetes episode. But now its approaching just don't know if i can watch it. It's taken me many years to control my diabetes and no matter what people said or did or showed me made me change the way i treated it. Took me a long time. Just don't know how i will feel watching it. Think there will be many tears. Also hate the thought of people criticising these young people afrter it. I know people in my work will have something to say about it and will question me on it. May run out of work in tears, such a push over lol!!! Oh what to do. Anyone else scared to watch it?


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## SilentAssassin1642

posted something on facebook regarding this and got the following from my grandad in response:

Sorry Sam but it seems to be a general attitude of lots of young people today. _Don't want to sound ageist but you only have to see some of the current crop of documentaries about the young , can't be a**** to get out of bed, can't be a**** to work, cant be a**** to contribute in any way, just interested in " having a good time" without any thought for others..... sorry I'm like your mate going off on a rant, not like me at all xxxx_

Bear in mind this is coming from a diabetic also, but yet again someone who thinks that type 1 is caused by a poor lifestyle. ARGHHHHH!


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## richardq

I'm quite looking forward to it... it should at the least be an interesting insight, and I have very much enjoyed the series so far.


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## katie

I hope my half-nephew-in-law watches this!  I found out he never goes to any appointments unless forced by his mother and he wont let anyone see him inject, ever.  Also he hides it from his friends. I had my suspicions because he never mentions it. 

Maybe this kind of programme could guilt him into sorting it out.  You never know...


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## NiVZ

I've Sky+d this but not watched it yet.

Here's the link to the Channel 4 website 

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-hospital/episode-guide/series-2/episode-4

It's not available to watch online yet, but should be soon.

NiVZ


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## novorapidboi26

Cant wait to see this tonight...............cant wait to come on here tommorow and here everyones thoughts......


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## Copepod

SilentAssassin1642 said:


> posted something on facebook regarding this and got the following from my grandad in response:
> 
> Sorry Sam but it seems to be a general attitude of lots of young people today. _Don't want to sound ageist but you only have to see some of the current crop of documentaries about the young , can't be a**** to get out of bed, can't be a**** to work, cant be a**** to contribute in any way, just interested in " having a good time" without any thought for others..... sorry I'm like your mate going off on a rant, not like me at all xxxx_
> 
> Bear in mind this is coming from a diabetic also, but yet again someone who thinks that type 1 is caused by a poor lifestyle. ARGHHHHH!



Not sure Grandad is necessarily saying anything about the CAUSE of type 1 diabetes, just about how some young people with T1D manage thier condition.


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## SilentAssassin1642

Copepod said:


> Not sure Grandad is necessarily saying anything about the CAUSE of type 1 diabetes, just about how some young people with T1D manage thier condition.



trsut me, grandad then went on to rant about how type 1's get it becaue they ate to much (in his words "s***")  trust me copepod, you don't know what my grandad is like, and nor do you want to.


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## Steff

Last minute reminder guys...I'm going to record it incase i ever go off the straight and narrow it will be a stark reminder for me ro watch it back.


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## scootdevon

*4 mins folks *


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## SilentAssassin1642

There will be a blog written. I saw a lot of myself in some of those kids...but at the same time I feel there was too much stereotyping and they concentrated way too much on the negative.

The comment by that girl at the end really got to me.."Bovvered". I could have punched her in the face if she'd actually been in the room with me. Funny thing is...I was like her once


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## Lewy

Oh my god that was more like a horror than anything else


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## Twitchy

It's a flipping long time since I saw anything so depressing 

Great, we're all not taking it seriously & all our complications are our own fault!

Did anyone spot any serious effort being put into understanding & addressing why the teenagers weren't taking it seriously, apart from writing it off as 'they don't want to appear different'?? Ok that applied to a couple they interviewed, but what about not understanding the point of blood tests, ie education?  Depression?

Can only conclude I was flipping lucky to have a nurse for a mum... really peed off at how totally biassed this was - feel like everyone will look at me now & say I've retinopathy because i wasn't 'bovvered', they won't bother to understand the reality of 30+yrs diabetes on old control methods & 2 pregs!!! 

Probably shouldn't have watched this...


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## SilentAssassin1642

Lewy said:


> Oh my god that was more like a horror than anything else



I remember when I was like that young girl (the one who had the party). Its things like the amputation that frightened me into doing something about it. The problem is though that the doctor is quite right...if you don't look after yourself, you'll more than likely end up seriously ill.

That boy at the start got me. walking out of hospital after being admitted the previous night with DKA, cigarette hanging out of his mouth. I'm disgusted.


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## Steff

well what did you all think? i was mortified at the attitude of that fran, if i got  HI on my meter id be mortified,she didnt seem to care, in the next clip you saw her out drinking and smoking her mum wernt that bothered either.That poor bloke richard who sat in his room waiting on appointments and people just not turning up grrr,i weas crying watching what kevin had to go through on diyalisis, a very good show i thought would certainly strike fear into me if i was poorly controlled.


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## Twitchy

Oh, and as for that girl's mum - 'she's always looked after it herself' - er, evidently not?!!! Talk about abrogating your parental responsibility!!! 

'I can't physically make her do it' - how about 'you live in my house, you do your tests & jabs or I cut your allowance' etc??  Mind you, this is the parent happily watching her 16yr old daughter get wasted... 'nuff said...


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## Steff

Twitchy said:


> Oh, and as for that girl's mum - 'she's always looked after it herself' - er, evidently not?!!! Talk about abrogating your parental responsibility!!!
> 
> 'I can't physically make her do it' - how about 'you live in my house, you do your tests & jabs or I cut your allowance' etc??  Mind you, this is the parent happily watching her 16yr old daughter get wasted... 'nuff said...



yup at 15 when at the start of the show shes on the archers and the fags, while mum just does nothing, she will regret all this in later life like that mothere said it is  not effecting her now so she just dont care. Sad that is takes death or serious complications for some to wake up and take it serious


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## SilentAssassin1642

Steffie said:


> yup at 15 when at the start of the show shes on the archers and the fags, while mum just does nothing, she will regret all this in later life like that mothere said it is  not effecting her now so she just dont care. Sad that is takes death or serious complications for some to wake up and take it serious



do you know what makes me angry? The fact that these kids will end up with complications because of what they've done to themselves and so many others, myself included, have worked hard at stopping them and STILL ended up with them.


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## D_G

Interesting program but i think they focused on the negatives too much and also didnt really explain the difference between type one and type two clearly enough!

That guy at the begining shocked me...DKA and high blood sugars in the morning discharging himself and sparking up a cigerette on the way out!!!! 

And as for that party girl....could have given her a slap or two GRRR


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## Northerner

I think it was the 'final statement' from the Dr that got me the most, talking about the undertone of 'self-inflicted' and then comparing it to society's changing attitudes to smoking and drinking. With programmes like this forming the basis of public education about diabetes, that's certainly where we're heading 

No example of what good control can achieve, and the achievements of diabetics young and old. Do you think there will ever be a programme about that?


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## Dan101

*"The Hospital"*

Shocked. What more can I say? A totally unbalanced view of diabetes, how far will this go to encourage misunderstadning and stereotyping? It has to be said though, that it will probably encourage more debate and more people to ask questions, lets just hope they get the right answers. As for me, I've had diabetes for 8 months and I this program has totally panicked me into taking more action and to increase my control, I'm already quite tight with my control, but will be finidng more ways to make it better but with as little disruption to me as possible. Its been hard over the past few months, both at work and at home. At times diabetes can be a lonely health issue to deal with, upsetting and shocking. With the right support and access to information then it can be alot easier to deal with, especially the people on here!


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## SilentAssassin1642

Northerner said:


> I think it was the 'final statement' from the Dr that got me the most, talking about the undertone of 'self-inflicted' and then comparing it to society's changing attitudes to smoking and drinking. With programmes like this forming the basis of public education about diabetes, that's certainly where we're heading
> 
> No example of what good control can achieve, and the achievements of diabetics young and old. Do you think there will ever be a programme about that?



very doubtful

I think we should make our own


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## aymes

All in all I think they did a good job with that. Sure there are a few bits I would have rephrased slightly maybe but no major issues with it at all. I think it fitted in well with the context of the whole series, it did what it set out to do. It maybe would have been nice if they'd followed one person who did test and inject regularly to show the alternative but that's only a minor point.
I did find some of the young people they followed frustrating, although I do understand the reasons behind their behaviour, just frustrating that there seems no way to help them change their attitude. One look at that foot will be enough to scare me for sometime, there were several texts exchanged between me and my D friends at that point!
The message that came through strongest for me though was frustration on behalf of the medical staff, knowing that their help (and nhs resources) is just ignored and what that may well lead to must be destroying. It's definately increased my empathy for them, and I understand the shock of some when I get very involved in everything! Oh, and I want that doctor to be my doctor!


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## Adrienne

I haven't seen this yet but the Children with Diabetes list is in uproar and its all over facebook as you can imagine.   

Firstly you have to remember where this was set these are the stereotypical people from there that you see in the news over the last few years about this place.    I used to live there for a short while and loads of people are moving out.    I know the hospital and it has always had a bad name generally, no idea about the diabetic team as was never under them and wouldn't want to be due to the reputation of the hospital as a whole.

Obviously this is a sweeping statement and I mean no malice to anyone who lives in that area.   Some parts are lovely, you just have to hunt for them now.


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## everydayupsanddowns

Seemed like a wasted opportunity to me. Lots of 'self inflicted' 'all their own fault' 'what do you expect when you carry on like this' and not one example of someone wrestling with it to show people how hard it can be, but that it can be done. 

That toe surgery though... Eeeeeeeeeeeew!


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## Twitchy

The funny thing is, before that 'self-inflicted' comment I felt quite sympathetic to the consultant...he seemed fairly reasonable & pragmatic... after it I nearly ended up throwing the remote through the TV - it's a heck of a sweeping statement to make (I know, I know, he's the expert, he told us) 

Could they not have put just one case of a teenager taking their diabetes seriously?? How unfair on those who are, who will now go back to school, college etc facing attitudes set in train by this programme!!  

As for the antenatal bit, just don't get me started -  don't think the keyboard can take it!!!! 

(Adrienne - I was starting to wonder about Croydon, lol!!)


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## Steff

aymes said:


> All in all I think they did a good job with that. Sure there are a few bits I would have rephrased slightly maybe but no major issues with it at all. I think it fitted in well with the context of the whole series, it did what it set out to do. It maybe would have been nice if they'd followed one person who did test and inject regularly to show the alternative but that's only a minor point.
> I did find some of the young people they followed frustrating, although I do understand the reasons behind their behaviour, just frustrating that there seems no way to help them change their attitude. One look at that foot will be enough to scare me for sometime, there were several texts exchanged between me and my D friends at that point!
> The message that came through strongest for me though was frustration on behalf of the medical staff, knowing that their help (and nhs resources) is just ignored and what that may well lead to must be destroying. It's definately increased my empathy for them, and I understand the shock of some when I get very involved in everything! Oh, and I want that doctor to be my doctor!



Agreed totally.The foot part shocked me to the core.

Dan i agree that has certainly shown me that my control needs to be tighhter then ever,


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## Carina1962

I agree it focused on the negative but i suppose it was showing us how some young people don't take their D seriously but that Fran could have been my own daughter and the thought of her behaving like that if she ever had diabetes would be gut wrenching.  I had to look away at the surgery scenes   I felt quite depressed after that and even more determined to control my D


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## Northerner

Twitchy said:


> The funny thing is, before that 'self-inflicted' comment I felt quite sympathetic to the consultant...he seemed fairly reasonable & pragmatic... after it I nearly ended up throwing the remote through the TV - it's a heck of a sweeping statement to make (I know, I know, he's the expert, he told us)
> 
> Could they not have put just one case of a teenager taking their diabetes seriously?? How unfair on those who are, who will now go back to school, college etc facing attitudes set in train by this programme!!
> ...



Agree with you totally Twitchy. It must be soul destrying for the doctor to sit there wanting to help but having no real power to make them take care of themsleves, attend clinic etc. But his statement at the end was uncalled for about the obesity - it had NOTHING to do with most of the cases in the programme as they weren't obese! He may know more than patients who don't understand or care about their diabetes, but I doubt he know more than someone who does.

The young drunk girl clearly didn't get any parental support either, and clearly wasn't aware of the consequences of bad - and benefits of good - control.


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## Becca

Twitchy said:


> The funny thing is, before that 'self-inflicted' comment I felt quite sympathetic to the consultant...he seemed fairly reasonable & pragmatic... after it I nearly ended up throwing the remote through the TV - it's a heck of a sweeping statement to make (I know, I know, he's the expert, he told us)
> 
> That infuriated me!   He was slightly annoying me talking about how people are fat and it's self inflicted, why can't they eat right etc when he himself was no slim jim.  Hmmmmm....
> 
> It does scare me for Rose and i did just want to shake the parents of these teenagers.


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## RachelT

I'm sick of the negative-doom and gloom stuff...It's depressing, and makes me more paranoid about being diabetic than over testing ever could. Sorry, i haven't seen the show, the write ups scared me off.
I feel sympathetic to the kids though, beeing a teenager is hard enough without having to deal with something that makes you obviously different from all the other kids (it may not be obvious to them, but it's obvious to you). Teenagers feel like they're indestructable, i guess they grow out of it. I remember going through the "everybody else does why can't I? It's not fair!" stage myself and that was just because my parents wouldn't buy me a new bike...
  It's time that diabetes got the same kind of social accetability (by which i mean being able to test and administer insulin in public) and understanding as asthma does. Then maybe people wouldn't feel so alienated or wierd (or maybe that's just me).

Diabetic Grandads? Hows this? My grandad is in hospital at the moment (i don;t know why, i'm not sure anyone knows why, if they did it would be a LONG story), when he was first admitted they were told he was diabetic, they asked if he was on any medication, he said no (wrong! he's on gliclazide) and then tested his blood which was somewhat on the high side.. So they obviously asked what he'd had to eat and he said nothing, after a certain ammount of probing they managed to discover what he'd had for dinner that night...two merangues!!  He also told them he lived on his own, which is rubbish coz he lives with my grandma, and has done for the last 60 years or whatever...I guess half the reason he's in hospital is because they can't work out if he's got dementia or not, they fail to realise he was born stubborn...


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## Freddie99

Now time to buck the routine that the programme seems to give out as apparently I'm well controlled and rather well educated. According to that folk like me only come around once a blue moon. I'm not exactly warming to this and that's after twenty minutes. Considering writing to Channel four and perhaps Professor Sabine. One to express disgust and one to congratulate him on a down to earth approach. I think you can guess to whom which letter will be going.

Tom


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## rossi_mac

oooh I missed it, but no power cut so can watch it although I'm not sure I want to, I'm sure I will just not in a hurry!


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## Ruth Goode

It's sad to watch that these teenagers are so negative with their diabetes and their parents are not really helping!  We all know there are some positive teenagers who control their diabetes better and also good parents who do help and support their diabetic children.


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## Lewy

I suppose to be honest I can't really comment much being very newly diagnosed and not having much experience, but being able to see some of the complications quite literally 'in the flesh' rather than just a double page in the booklet the nurse handed to me has definately made me want to take this a helluva lot more seriously than I already am. 

Which is definately something positive to take away from this. Then again who knows, some of them took it seriously to begin with too. I won't be able to properly comment for another year at least I guess..


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## SilentAssassin1642

TomH said:


> Now time to buck the routine that the programme seems to give out as apparently I'm well controlled and rather well educated. According to that folk like me only come around once a blue moon. I'm not exactly warming to this and that's after twenty minutes. Considering writing to Channel four and perhaps Professor Sabine. One to express disgust and one to congratulate him on a down to earth approach. I think you can guess to whom which letter will be going.
> 
> Tom



i like your approach there tom


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## Adrienne

Lewy said:


> I suppose to be honest I can't really comment much being very newly diagnosed and not having much experience, but being able to see some of the complications quite literally 'in the flesh' rather than just a double page in the booklet the nurse handed to me has definately made me want to take this a helluva lot more seriously than I already am.
> 
> Which is definately something positive to take away from this. Then again who knows, some of them took it seriously to begin with too. I won't be able to properly comment for another year at least I guess..



Hiya

This is a great attitude to have and perhaps the programme has shown some people how not to treat diabetes and like yourself gain more respect for it and control it to the best of your ability.

The problem I see though is that it won't be the parents of the people like the teens on the programme that will bother watching it, they don't care, so they are not going to watch a factual programme.    It will be people like us lot who do care and do want to do something about it which is why we are on these forums as well so it was aimed at the wrong audience I think.


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## vix001

I so shouldn't have watched that alone. Now I'm here panicking that I'm going to be a one legged blind 40 year old who spends her days on dialysis. 
I did learn that poorly controlled D can lead to infertility, which would explain a lot, shame my doctor didn't explain that to me the last time I mentioned it. Having said that though, I don't think I want to have children now, the risks are sooo big.

I've been trying so hard to get the BS down, but Dawn Phenomenon doesn't help, neither does a doctor who doesn't know what it is and can't (won't?) help. 
Can someone please tell me that there is a reason to carry on and not just book the next flight to Dignitas?

Sorry for the rant, its been building for a while and the programme just made it all blurt out.


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## Steff

vix001 said:


> s
> I did learn that poorly controlled D can lead to infertility, which would explain a lot, shame my doctor didn't explain that to me the last time I mentioned it.


 Good point I also learnt that as well Vix.I was told nothing along those lines,makes sense now lol.


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## Northerner

vix001 said:


> ...I've been trying so hard to get the BS down, but Dawn Phenomenon doesn't help, neither does a doctor who doesn't know what it is and can't (won't?) help.
> Can someone please tell me that there is a reason to carry on and not just book the next flight to Dignitas?
> 
> Sorry for the rant, its been building for a while and the programme just made it all blurt out.



It was shocking, but remember that it was very much 'worse case scenario' - people who thought they could ignore diabetes. However difficult you may be finding it, you are trying, and that is a world away from those poor young people.  Don't be a stranger Vix! Feel free to rant here anytime the need arises!


----------



## KayC

I missed the program at 9.00pm, so I've just watched it on Channel 4 on Demand.

The program uses shock tactics for non diabetics and poorly controlled diabetics not to go down the same way.  That was pretty disgusting and shocking, so I think it served its purpose.

However, we all know that it's a simplistic view of the disease and its sufferers.  Many of us are trying hard to control the condition.  Many of us are trying hard yet not successful in control.  Many of us are trying hard and actually managing BG level but still developing complications.  We come in many sizes and ages and are from many different backgrounds.  I feel uncomfortable to be categorized simply as 'fat and lazy'.

In my opinion, the program failed to show our daily struggle to manage, or the diabetics as individuals.  Probably it's difficult to do so in 60 min program, though.


----------



## MIsmail

KayC said:


> I missed the program at 9.00pm, so I've just watched it on Channel 4 on Demand.
> 
> The program uses shock tactics for non diabetics and poorly controlled diabetics not to go down the same way.  That was pretty disgusting and shocking, so I think it served its purpose.
> 
> However, we all know that it's a simplistic view of the disease and its sufferers.  Many of us are trying hard to control the condition.  Many of us are trying hard yet not successful in control.  Many of us are trying hard and actually managing BG level but still developing complications.  We come in many sizes and ages and are from many different backgrounds.  I feel uncomfortable to be categorized simply as 'fat and lazy'.
> 
> In my opinion, the program failed to show our daily struggle to manage, or the diabetics as individuals.  Probably it's difficult to do so in 60 min program, though.



I think that the "tactics" were wrong. 

However our "daily struggle to manage" has a huge scope of variation between each individual. 

Perhapse it may be better too do a more focussed program with a larger number of individuals.

It got people talking, so there's a good positive.


----------



## katie

When I go to my next appointment i'll ask my consultant if he can make a more balanced programme for us!

The foot surgery made me scream at my computer.  The bit about pregnancy made me cry, even though I have never even thought about having children.

I think it was a good programme for getting people to see the seriousness of the disease, and for getting young people to take the condition more seriously (and older people too!).  It would be great to see a programme that's focused on Diabetes, but shows a good balance of people who really try to look after themselves & people who don't.  Also a focus on educating people about the different types etc.  As aymes said, I don't think that's what The Hospital is suposed to me about, but I would love to see it


----------



## Freddie99

And here we have found a colony of an ancient beast long thought lost to extinction... The Rantasaurus rex, a cousin to the thriving Bantersaurus rex...


----------



## Twitchy

Not that I've been stewing on this all night, or anything...!!

BUT, as for his comment about his patients' weight & how they obviously aren't just eating demineralized water & lettuce leaves...  I find it really really hard on mdi to get good control without weight gain - over 2 pregnancies now I have gained 3 stone...not because I was eating for two, but because the mdi was so crude compared to what I needed that all I could do was to have too much insulin & 'eat up' to it... I also stopped exercising whilst trying to get pregnant & whilst pregnant because it played merry hell with my levels, whether during or up to 24hrs after exercise - so yes, I am/have been a big fat slob for a while, but it was all for the good control he & his team were concerned that pregnant mothers should have!!!!  What does he want, the moon on a stick?! 

I also am firmly convinced that once or twice a year clinics are not much good - esp from a motivational point of view.  I know it might cost more, but follow ups from (good) DSNs every month or two might help keep people (esp teens??) focussed & on the right track?  If they felt someone was taking a keen, sustained committed supportive interest in their diabetes & could see things improving with input maybe their attitude would improve...

Finally (promise I will put 'puter down & walk away then), is it really too much to ask the media to do something a bit less shock-horror??  Could they not do something like follow a NORMAL (ie trying to make some effort at control) T1 & T2 for say a year, honestly showing the struggles it takes & the highs & lows, whilst being clear about the differences??  I know, I know, it wouldn't be cheap & would not attrack the shock/gore audience... 

Right, huff over, off to try to magically shift some more weight without detriment to my diabetes control.  After that, it's a perpetual energy machine...


----------



## lanzlady

*the hospital*

Oh my goodness how scary was that? the amputations ohhh dear and I am only 7 months into D They are all so indenial


----------



## novorapidboi26

Keith was the scariest for me, same age as me, renal dialysis 4 times a day, he really must of abused his condition..........


I dont really think the episode was directed at the diabetic population becuase theres no way it will make diabetics pull the finger out.........tennage diabetics at that.......

The majority of them are on MDI, yet know nothing of carb counting, dose correction, all the essentials you need for the regime.........they would be better on a twice a day mix.........it still works for people...


----------



## Copepod

aymes said:


> All in all I think they did a good job with that. Sure there are a few bits I would have rephrased slightly maybe but no major issues with it at all. I think it fitted in well with the context of the whole series, it did what it set out to do. It maybe would have been nice if they'd followed one person who did test and inject regularly to show the alternative but that's only a minor point.
> I did find some of the young people they followed frustrating, although I do understand the reasons behind their behaviour, just frustrating that there seems no way to help them change their attitude. One look at that foot will be enough to scare me for sometime, there were several texts exchanged between me and my D friends at that point!
> The message that came through strongest for me though was frustration on behalf of the medical staff, knowing that their help (and nhs resources) is just ignored and what that may well lead to must be destroying. It's definately increased my empathy for them, and I understand the shock of some when I get very involved in everything! Oh, and I want that doctor to be my doctor!



I missed the first 15 minutes of the programme, but overall, I agree with Aymes's view. I know how frustrating it is to be available on duty when patients / volunteers (not diabetes, but all conditions) don't turn up - particularly when it's outside normal working hours, although that's off this topic. It's tough being a teenager, and even tougher with diabetes, when you want to do the same as your friends, but as Keith (2x year old on peritoneal dialysis and hoping for a kidney & pancreas transplant) showed, complications can come all too early - not just post middle age. However, I didn't watch it thinking it was a comment on how I manage my condition. I reckon it's too graphic for anyone under about 18 years, by the way.


----------



## novorapidboi26

Copepod said:


> I reckon it's too graphic for anyone under about 18 years, by the way.



Is this in response to the toe amputation.........nasty.....

I cant remeber seeing anything that unsuitable though.....

My hopes is alot of the teens will sort it out once there out on there own and settled in life, thats one o the main reasons I took control.......


----------



## Northerner

novorapidboi26 said:


> ...The majority of them are on MDI, yet know nothing of carb counting, dose correction, all the essentials you need for the regime.........they would be better on a twice a day mix.........it still works for people...



The drunk girl who said she hadn't injected all day but 'I'll do it when I get home'. Drunk? Had she a clue about how much she might need? I doubt that she would do it anyway. Also, didn't they keep saying she was 15? What was she doing being shown drinking so much? OK, I know teenagers drink. None of these kids seemed to have any real understanding of the possible consequences of how badly they were managing their diabetes, and as someone said elsewhere, that DSN that was being so meek with the girl trying to persuade her to test - tell her the truth, don't mollycoddle her! Whilst the amputation scenes were very graphic (and not really backed up by any description of why this was happening i.e. not just poor control, but surely lack of attention to infections etc.). 

Didn't like the conclusion with the doctor planting the idea that diabetes was a (inevitable, almost) consequence of being fat and lazy - particularly since he was displaying a personal tendency towards visceral adiposity!


----------



## Monica

I totally agree with Copepod! It's not suitable for under 18's. I recorded the programme thinking I might watch it with C. I watched it last night and deleted it immediately. I could not watch the foot scene, althoug I did see the amputated bit in the bowl . 

I was a bit surprised that they didn't distinguish the types very well. It also seemed to me that the doctor was a bit confused (and so was I) whether the girl who has type 2 was on insulin or not.

Someone on here said they could slap the 16 year old. Well, I could slap mum!!! And also the other girl's mum. She saw her dad diet because he had diabetes only to die, so she's not even going to bother dieting!!! Well, doesn't she realise she could die even younger that her dad was?

 I know I'm a pain in C's b'side, but until she moves out I will continue to be one. I'm just dreading C suddenly not being "bovvered".


----------



## richardq

I thought it was a very interesting programme, especially with relation to the complications that were discussed.  TV is never going to show  what happens when diabetes is well controlled because it would be dull - nothing would happen!

It has got me wondering about how long my T1 diabetes (probably self-inflicted according to the undertone of the programme) went undiagnosed, as my Hb1ac was 14.5 at diagnoisis, and whether I have gone a fair way into setting myself up for having toes chopped off, and hanging dialysis bags from my curtain rails.


xx


----------



## novorapidboi26

richardq said:


> T1 diabetes (probably self-inflicted according to the undertone of the programme)



Did anybody else get that impression...............how can type 1 be self inflicted?


----------



## Steff

To be honest I dont think they was much in it i would not want my child to see accept the foot scene,they was no bad  language that i can remember.


----------



## CarolK

im with Monica, I just couldnt stand by  and let my 15 year old get drunk and not inject etc. I was amazed that she wasnt feeling worse than she did, I would imagine you would soon end up in A & E doing that,
My son always says I "do his head in" but I would rather do that than stand by and do nothing.


----------



## PhilT

I missed the program unfortunately, it was set in my local hospital too so I would have liked to have seen it.

I suppose I might be able to see it on C4's internet tv web site.


----------



## novorapidboi26

I hope you turn up for your appointments........

Tell them all to come on here and we will wip them into shape.......


----------



## PhilT

novorapidboi26 said:


> I hope you turn up for your appointments........
> 
> Tell them all to come on here and we will wip them into shape.......


 
I am not treated at the hospital. The only thing I go there for is the retinopathy scan, the rest is all done at my local surgery.


----------



## Twitchy

CarolK said:


> im with Monica, I just couldnt stand by  and let my 15 year old get drunk and not inject etc. I was amazed that she wasnt feeling worse than she did, I would imagine you would soon end up in A & E doing that,
> My son always says I "do his head in" but I would rather do that than stand by and do nothing.



My (very patient,bless!) hubby & I sat up late talking about this program... we have done lots of work with teenagers (he still does) & have 2 kids, so this was a horrible program to watch, not just from a personal diabetic point of view... hubby made the point that ok, most teenagers are going to experiment with drink at some point, but even assuming someone *was* going to let their 16 yr old get drunk to celebrate their birthday (personally not convinced!) he would have thought of making a deal with the kid, ie "fine, you get to let your hair down a bit this one night, the condition being I take control of your diabetes, I WILL be testing your levels every hour or two & I WILL be making sure you have your injections etc as necessary!"  We were a bit gobsmacked that the girl was evidently drinking a lot for anyone habitually, let alone a diabetic 16 yr old... 

Re the doc's 'fat' comments again - sorry to harp on but not being diabetic he only has a text book understanding of how hard it can be to lose weight whilst on insulin - how hard it is to maintain *genuinely* good control whilst juggling the effects of exercise, insulin, food intake, etc etc - not wanting to get personal, but I noted with interest that despite his head start of not having to overcome this additional challenge, he himself was of a 'cuddly' disposition...so given the additional challenges, and frankly unsupportive attitude of the families, how are the teenagers to succeed?  I know several diabetics who used to skip injections as teenagers so as to avoid putting on weight!   The diabetes / weight issue really, really needs to be carefully handled...

All the above said, and as a tax payer, I do sympathize with the frustrations he would have felt seeing the empty waiting rooms - i actually was impressed that he didn't just start firing off snotty letters...Not sure what the best way of engaging the 'difficult ones' would be, but suspect getting them to meet other diabetic teens so they are not the odd one out might be a start?... big big issue!!!


----------



## novorapidboi26

I just assumed when he was talking about wieght and how they are obvious lying about diet that it was type 2s

Type 1s can be overwieght but still have good control as they have total control of insulin consumption


----------



## Twitchy

From memory he didn't make it particularly clear, and for example the T2 girl *was* on insulin (which he then changed to Byetta because of her weight).  It just came across as just a bit of a sweeping statement soundbite at the end.... yes type 1s can be overweight & controlled, but as I said, it can be very difficult to actually maintain good control whilst losing weight (in my experience at least!  Maybe I'm missing something really obvious! )


----------



## novorapidboi26

your right it is hard to maintain good control while excercising to lose weight................

I made assumptions too.......I didnt think she was on insulin........is bayetta not completely different from insulin??????

And by that I mean byeatta doesnt allow glucose to travel into the cells!


----------



## Sugarbum

Hiya,

I couldnt get online last night, and it was killing me!

I feel as if I am carrying the worry of that teen with the "HI" BM who hasnt tested for "months" on my shoulders overnight because her parents arent....is that mad? This isnt fiction, this is someone real, who smokes, drinks, gets wasted and has type one diabetes and a community DSN who is trying to encourage her to test "in the party season"????? Excuse me?????

Oh this girl. Yes, infertility is serious (mum) but we know people in the D community who we have lost (especially in CWD) and I would be seriously concerned this girl could lose her life through lack of education and support......binge drinking, no insulin and no testing....I could cry.

Im sad on behalf of the parents on here who we know to loving, supportive, caring and who would move mountains to ensure their children are as minimally affected by this as possible.

The undertone of the whole series is essentially how people abuse themselves and the NHS healthcare system- perhaps why I like it so much as its a voice for a lot of things that are frustrating when you work in that context. However, we are a community on this board for support and help and I dont think this represents "us" as a whole. Where is programme about the people who dilligently finger prick 4-8 times a day, attend their appointments, live with it and strive for better?

Sigh. 

I will watch it again to see if I take anything else from it, now I know what to expect. Oh, and I will be looking away at the toe- YUCK!!!


----------



## Emmal31

I think that they could have gone into detail a bit more about the different types and followed a couple of cases who were well controlled but then that would have made boring tv (I would have liked to have seen it myself though) and I think it would have been good to have had some figures like how many people with all the different types have complications and what percentage were well controlled and what were poorly controlled but oh well. 

As for the pregnant diabetic I think she doesn't know the meaning of a good start for her baby as soon as she found out she was pregnant her control should have been as tight as possible. It just makes me angry. I think that the overall message was poor because people already think that tax payers money is wasted on diabetics and it will only make people's perceptions of diabetics worse. 

I think like everyone else it's made me want to tighten my control even more so than I already have because I'd never want to be in any of those situations, it does bring it home to you once again how serious this condition is x


----------



## Northerner

Emma, I agree with you about the pregnant lady. Having read the experiences and tremendous efforts of so many pregnant ladies on this site, I could not believe what this woman was saying. She is one very lucky lady to have had a healthy baby after a pregnancy like that. The editors clearly picked that as the 'positive' for the whole programme, as the lady had now decided to test a bit more. I wonder how long that will last once the novelty has worn off.

I will watch again because I'm sure some of the things in the programme meant I wasn't paying full attention to other bits. I was watching it mainly from the point of view of thinking what my sister and nieces might be making of it all ( and other non-diabetics whose knowledge may be sketchy).

It seemed to me that the staff came across as resigned to their situation and there was little evidence of any real, hard-hitting home truths and motivational support. What about showing them positive role models? Right from the start, with that 21 yr old, there seemed to be little impact to their efforts to persuade him to stay, 'It would really be better if you stayed'. I haven't seen other programmes in the series, so maybe I would have seen this with different eyes, but I still think that the overall message about diabetes was very narrow and confused.


----------



## Becca

Northerner said:


> It seemed to me that the staff came across as resigned to their situation and there was little evidence of any real, hard-hitting home truths and motivational support. What about showing them positive role models? Right from the start, with that 21 yr old, there seemed to be little impact to their efforts to persuade him to stay, 'It would really be better if you stayed'. I haven't seen other programmes in the series, so maybe I would have seen this with different eyes, but I still think that the overall message about diabetes was very narrow and confused.



Completely agree about the staff.  I found the consultant to be smug and know it all.  I said to my husband i hope he doesn't talk to the teenagers like he was talking on the programme, that wouldn't help them at all.  Teenagers have a hard enough time being stereotyped, to be told they are doing no good and receiving negative comments is just not going to work.  Where are the psychologists as part of the team?

JDRF have made this response:  http://www.jdrf.org.uk/news.asp?ite...e+'The+Hospital'&section=23&sectionTitle=News


----------



## Northerner

JDRF's response to 'The Hospital':

http://www.jdrf.org.uk/news.asp?ite...e+'The+Hospital'&section=23&sectionTitle=News

edit: Oops! just noticed you'd posted this Becca!


----------



## stangi

Quite agree about your comment on lack of positive role models. 
I'm feeling very guilty now, after recommending my daughter and grandson (12) watch it, and hoping my grandson does not do anything stupid (such as overdosing on insulin which he has done three times in last 6 months when despairing about his diagnosis a year ago) after seeing such a depressing and alarming programme.  I was furious when the programme mentioned 'these' patients being likely to die before their parents, which sounded like he meant diabetic patients in general, not just the ones who do not comply with their recommended regime. Anyway I was so incensed I emailed channel 4 - a transcript of which follows: -  
"I want to complain about the very negative ways you presented the issues - management of diabetes -dealt with in the programme about the Mayday hospital last night. I realise the point was partly to scare younger patients into following doctors' orders for their own good, and to highlight the waste of missed appointments at diabetes clinic, but it was done in an irresponsible way with no warnings given just before the programme started.
I also felt it gave the impression that ALL diabetics are an expensive strain on the health service and it is their own fault they have the condition.This was demeaning and unnecessary. Onset of Type 1 has nothing to do with lifestyle. It is an auto-immune disease. 
All the responsible diabetes charities should be up in arms about the way this subject was handled here. I will be going onto their blogs later today to gauge the general opinions of their members re this programme.
My 12 year-old grandson watched it with his mother. The idea was that he would be encouraged to maintain good control and do regular blood sugar level testing, to avoid having hypo admissions etc during his approaching teens, if he saw what happens when you don't!  Well, this programme was way over the top. He had only been diagnosed a year ago and is still quite depressed about his diagnosis. This programme could lead him to believe that whatever he does, he will probably die by 45 even with good control of his condition, which is erroneous. He was also made to feel it was his fault and he was a drain on society, by the way the issues were dealt with in your programme. Put yourself in his position, or any teenage patient who is trying their hardest to comply with medical advice, and re-view this programme please as an observer, not a maker. 
There was not enough information given about the fact that a good, active and long life can be lived with good control.Maybe you could have featured one 'good' patient at the clinic, to show the positive side.
 And also I felt there was a  lack of warnings about the general ethos of the programme, having read the TV guide's small bit, and no warning whatever as the programme showed a toe amputation in gory detail, as if this is the inevitable outcome of the disease. In particular I felt there was a total lack of balance in what was shown... there was NOT a good enough distinction made/stressed between type 1 and type 2 diabetes and the causes. Near the end it was implied the cause was obesity, whereas this is not the case for type 1. No doubt the doctors made this clear, but I would imagine bits were edited out in order to create a more sensationalist documentary.
I feel that in watching this programme, albeit after the 9pm 'watershed' (it IS the school holidays though, when a 12-year-old is still likely to be up) my grandson's state of mind about his condition (type 1) and its prognosis has been damaged. All the work with him in the past year to restore his confidence has been undone, by programme-makers who need to 'sensationalise' everything, show only the patients who don't do as they are told, and to generalise about diabetes. He is a good kid, and trying very hard to keep good control of his condition.  I watched this programme at my home too and I came away with the impression that all patients had a reduced lifespan and quality of life, whatever. The older lad on a type of dialysis was an example of what can happen if you do not have good enough control of your diabetes when younger, but it came across as 'this is what any patient can expect' . 
I feel this was a sensationalist angle and the whole programme was yet another example of media's current criticism of anyone with a health condition, because of the cost of their treatment to the NHS.
I would welcome your comments and look forward to seeing a more responsible programme in the future, about type 1 diabetes and its successful management, not just the 'failure' stories."


----------



## sofaraway

Tried to type a reply a few times but ended up deleting. I'm not sure how I feel about the program, a bit mixed to be honest. Found soem parts, frustrating and others quite sad. 

I don't think that program was meant to be a balanced view so I don't have a problem with the people it focussed on. 

I would have liked some answers/solutions but maybe they are lacking at the moment.


----------



## sue63

I didn't watch the programme to be honest as it knew it would upset me and I am glad I didn't...I knew it would focus on the negatives etc

A close friend of mine whose wife is type 1 diabetic and a doctor said to me when J was diagnosed to focus on the fact it can be treated and controlled and there are worse conditions to deal with. His wife is healthy, they have a lovely son...no complications and she has a full and active and busy life as a GP!!

Any illness carries worries and threats and I think teenagers and parents have enough to cope with without being scared witless by the sensational media!


----------



## NiVZ

Hoping to watch this tonight, but everyone seems to be talking about it.

I can't comment on the programme itself yet, but from the comments I've seen it seems we still aren't getting the fundamental point across about the different types of diabetes, and also that everyone focuses on the negatives instead of the successes.  

Diabetes is not a straight forward condition that can be pigeon holed.  Just looking at the many different types of diabetes shows that but all too often sweeping generalisations are made especially on TV and in the press.

I also disagree with the argument that all diabetes comes under one umbrella because the symptoms are the same, that being our bodies cannot convert food to energy.

Yes on a very general level that statement is true, but often it's for very different reasons.  

I'd prefer to see some distinction along the lines of:

Type 1's generally produce little or no insulin whereas 
Type 1's must take regular injections of insulin (or use a pump) to replace the insulin their bodies no longer produce.

Type 2's are unable to use the insulin they are producing. 
Type 2 can be controlled by diet and exercise but often need tablets to encourage their bodies to produce more insulin (or help use the insulin more efficiently) or may also need injections to provide more insulin if they have become insulin resistant.

I accept that the diabetes charities endeavor to help all types of diabetics, but i feel they could do more.

It's about time they tried to educate about the different types and treatments by challenging the often frightening generalided statements that are made instead of sitting back and letting the confusion continue!  Maybe then we'd start to see a change in attitudes towards our testing and injecting in public and people would actually know what to do if they come across an unconcious diabetic in the future.

With the prevelance of diabetes continuing to rise, it won't be long before non-diabetics are in the minority anyway!

NiVZ

P.S @stangi - Great letter to Channel 4


----------



## Northerner

Here's Diabetes UK's response to the programme:

http://www.diabetes.org.uk/About_us...ramme-unhelpful-in-dispelling-diabetes-myths/


----------



## Twitchy

Stangi,

I am so sorry to hear how your grandson has been feeling, and can appreciate how last night's programme probably won't have helped.  Not sure if he lives locally to you, but I'm just down the road from Derby - I'd be more than happy to meet up with you & him, & have a chat about diabetes & the things I've still been able to do (D of E, Cadets, flying, etc!) if you'd like - just pm me if you're interested. 

Great letter by the way - think I might have to follow your example! 

Re the pregnant lady - I can sympathise with her having trouble with her diabetes control, although find it more difficult to reconcile her 'relaxed' attitude in the early days - personally I did my utmost to get good control before both babies, but on falling pregnant found changing hormone levels could play havoc with control despite testing & applying DAFNE like a fanatic! (even got told off for testing too much lol!)!  I couldn't help wondering what part lack of education played in her situation - ie had she ever done something like DAFNE?  The aspect of how much / little patients knew about how to control their condition just seemed totally absent in the whole programme as far as I could see...


----------



## Northerner

stangi said:


> Quite agree about your comment on lack of positive role models.
> I'm feeling very guilty now, after recommending my daughter and grandson (12) watch it, and hoping my grandson does not do anything stupid (such as overdosing on insulin which he has done three times in last 6 months when despairing about his diagnosis a year ago) after seeing such a depressing and alarming programme.  I was furious when the programme mentioned 'these' patients being likely to die before their parents, which sounded like he meant diabetic patients in general, not just the ones who do not comply with their recommended regime. Anyway I was so incensed I emailed channel 4 - a transcript of which follows: -  ...



An excellent assessment Stangi - hit the nail on the head in so many ways. It will be interesting to see if the response you receive is some standardised nonsense, or if they consider your points and address them properly. I won't hold my breath. I do hope that your grandson isn't negatively affected by the programme, and that his motivation to care for his diabetes improves and is sustained throughout his teenage years. There are many outstanding examples of what people can achieve, despite their diabetes - many of them posting on this forum. It might be a good idea to take this opportunity to gather together the stories of such people so that he can be shown the other side of the coin. I'm thinking of people like Team Type 1, who cycle in the race across America (and win!), Sir Steve Redgrave, and many less famous, but equally dynamic and successful people. Take an afternoon to peruse the web and see what you can find.  

Don't let this shoddy programme undermine his attitude and commitment to good control!


----------



## Northerner

Programme is now available on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSoL2scG98E


----------



## SacredHeart

I plan to watch it tonight, since I forgot it was on last night, and went out for dinner, instead.


----------



## bex123

well i havn't watched it or intend to watch  it for that matter!  , i have found after watching all the tripe on t.v about diabeties over the last 20 yrs i have been type 1 they still come out with the same old cobblers !

 I see no point in stressing myself out over a t.v program which will enevitably lead to a high b.s and a bad mood because of an ignorant program producer .

really not worth the stress and would rather watch paint dry lol

also , remember the advice/opinions given im any t.v program may not be eddited into the progrem the way either the hospital / consultant / patient wanted themselves or thier advice to be portrayed 

it all comes down to the producer and the edit team that turn what could have been very factual information into a load of tripe , bad producers , bad programs and in my view all medical programs should be over seen by the relevant specialist consultant ( im sure the consultants would love to add to his already huge pay packet) just to ensure the final result is factually correct and informative and educational rather than just entertaining viewing


----------



## NiVZ

Northerner said:


> Here's Diabetes UK's response to the programme:
> 
> http://www.diabetes.org.uk/About_us...ramme-unhelpful-in-dispelling-diabetes-myths/



Wish they would put something like this in the national press, or create a TV documentary of their own to set the record straight.

I know they are a charity and funds can be tight, but there are lots of volunteers (DUK members, Forums, etc) who could give time and resources.

I'd even settle for some promotional adverts, billboards, leaflets, etc but there needs to be more education about diabetes.

NiVZ


----------



## Catwoman76

Sugarbum said:


> Hiya,
> 
> I couldnt get online last night, and it was killing me!
> 
> I feel as if I am carrying the worry of that teen with the "HI" BM who hasnt tested for "months" on my shoulders overnight because her parents arent....is that mad? This isnt fiction, this is someone real, who smokes, drinks, gets wasted and has type one diabetes and a community DSN who is trying to encourage her to test "in the party season"????? Excuse me?????
> 
> Oh this girl. Yes, infertility is serious (mum) but we know people in the D community who we have lost (especially in CWD) and I would be seriously concerned this girl could lose her life through lack of education and support......binge drinking, no insulin and no testing....I could cry.
> 
> Im sad on behalf of the parents on here who we know to loving, supportive, caring and who would move mountains to ensure their children are as minimally affected by this as possible.
> 
> The undertone of the whole series is essentially how people abuse themselves and the NHS healthcare system- perhaps why I like it so much as its a voice for a lot of things that are frustrating when you work in that context. However, we are a community on this board for support and help and I dont think this represents "us" as a whole. Where is programme about the people who dilligently finger prick 4-8 times a day, attend their appointments, live with it and strive for better?
> 
> Sigh.
> 
> I will watch it again to see if I take anything else from it, now I know what to expect. Oh, and I will be looking away at the toe- YUCK!!!



Well said Sugarbum, I found it shocking and sad. I did wonder about the doctors seemily laid back approach to the younger diabetics and about them not turning up for appointments, this approach doesn't seem to be working, maybe they should go to a diabetic 'bootcamp' with a diabetic american drill sergeant who would REALLY educate them and try to and sort them out, obviously for thier own wellbeing and the NHS's. Sheena


----------



## thedame

Oh how predictably depressing  that program was - it was exactly as I expected it to be- using shocking surgeries to satisfy the ghouls but with no explanation about the why and wherefores. Little distinction between the types and no positives for those scared out of their wits to cling to.

I was so cross with that consultant - told that poor misguided girl that with Byetta she WILL lose weight on Byetta then they showed her Mum dishing up a "healthy" plate of fried chicken, potatoes AND rice and a small handfull of lettuce. 

I just going to get my evening dose of Byetta and then take myself off to the fish and chip shop- I should be OK if I eat a picked cucumebr with it shouldn't I?

Sorry, but if I had him as my consultant then I wouldn't turn up to his sessions either


----------



## novorapidboi26

thedame said:


> Oh how predictably depressing and that program was - it was exactly as I expected it to be- using shocking surgeries to satisfy the ghouls but with no explanation about the why and wherefores. Little distinction between the types and no positives for those scared out of their wits to cling to.
> 
> I was so cross with that consultant - told that poor misguided girl that Byetta that she WILL lose weight on Byetta then they showed her Mum dishing up a "healthy" plate of fried chicken, potatoes AND rice and a small handfull of lettuce.
> 
> I just going to get my evening dose of Byetta and then take myself off to the fish and chip shop- I should be OK if I eat a picked cucumebr with it shouldn't I?
> 
> Sorry, but if I had him as my consultant then I wouldn't turn up to his sessions either



Are there adverse effects if you take byetta then eat lots of crap.......


----------



## Steff

novorapidboi26 said:


> Are there adverse effects if you take byetta then eat lots of crap.......



Hi sorry to butt in but im on it as well, if i ate loads of crap after it id go hyper more then 100 per cent sure on that, way i see it if i did eat loads of crap after taking my byetta id be wasting my time taking it in the first place.


----------



## novorapidboi26

it curbs your appetite if im right, so in theory you shouldnt really want to stuff ure face............


----------



## Steff

novorapidboi26 said:


> it curbs your appetite if im right, so in theory you shouldnt really want to stuff ure face............



yup thats true, it certainly fills me up now to the point where i rarely finish a main meal.


----------



## lucy123

Great...now I have most of the office thinking the only reason I have diabetes is because I stuff my face and now they are on back.

I also now have a family who insist I go back to the nurse and tell her the programme says I must test!

I feel under so much pressure now and want to crawl under the duvet and not hear the D word ever again...and its my annual review tomorrow.

Some of it did make me think about how important the control is - but why have some people only picked out the negative for discussion.


----------



## thedame

novorapidboi26 said:


> it curbs your appetite if im right, so in theory you shouldnt really want to stuff ure face............



It does make you feel fuller for longer but after the honeymoon period during which you are naturally very careful about what you eat, someone like me who is an emotional eater can still crave the "wrong" foods. I find I would much rather have a nice pie or lump of fruit cake than a salad and piece of fruit. I might eat less of either than I would have pre-Byetta but it isn't a magic pill which turns you someone who never falls off the wagon. I wish!!!

If you do overeat, whatever type of food it is, you feel bloated and probably a bit sick a bit quicker than if you binged without the Byetta if you see what I mean. It is a great medication though - my levels came down really quickly- a lot quicker than anyone expected even with careful eating - I just think it gives the wrong message to imply that will power and education are not involved as then people like that girl will just give up- if the overdose of carbs doesn't kill her first!


----------



## SilentAssassin1642

my review...

it's coming...


----------



## Freddie99

Sod it, I'm declaring a fatwa on channel 4...


----------



## katie

SilentAssassin1642 said:


> my review...
> 
> it's coming...



dont tease us...


----------



## Northerner

lucy123 said:


> Great...now I have most of the office thinking the only reason I have diabetes is because I stuff my face and now they are on back.
> 
> I also now have a family who insist I go back to the nurse and tell her the programme says I must test!
> 
> I feel under so much pressure now and want to crawl under the duvet and not hear the D word ever again...and its my annual review tomorrow.
> 
> Some of it did make me think about how important the control is - but why have some people only picked out the negative for discussion.



Hi Lucy, the program didn't help those of us who are trying to get good control because it presented an entirely negative picture and featured only people who didn't know how and why they should care for themselves. Reflecting on it, I feel so sorry for all those young people. Without exception, they were presented as wilfully ignoring the dangers and defiantly walking towards a shortened life filled with pain and distress. However, as has already been said, there was little to suggest that they were getting the level of support that they needed to overcome their unwillingness to accept their diabetes. The nervous smiles were typical teenage bravado - underneath it all I think they were probably very scared, but buried that fear in the way someone might put their hands over their ears and shout nononono! when they were being told something they didn't want to hear.

The programme wasn't seeking to explain diabetes to the public, just to let them know that it could have serious consequences for people who ignored or abused it. As a result, snippets about diabetes were lobbed in here and there whenever they lent some frisson to the scene underway. From a diabetic's point of view, this confused picture is undermining their efforts to inform their family, friends and colleagues of what a complex picture diabetes represents. I think this is why there is so much anger, and a lot of disappointment too, about the programme.

Don't allow your colleagues and family to base their understanding of diabetes on a programme like this - it would be like basing your knowledge of Chinese culture on the impressions of Benny Hill! I hope that your annual review goes well - I'm sure you will be fine, so please don't be nervous about it.


----------



## xxlou_lxx

I didnt think much of the programme either, did not like the doctor at all.. Find it hard to believe that the whole time it was filmed the clinic was always empty, as mine is always busy!! 

I didnt like how it was suggested that only diabetics with poor control are likely to develop complications, when everything I have been told is that good control will only slow complications down.

The programe was not even worth the watch in my opinion, I have had diabetes since 5 yrs old and could hardly relate to a thing (and I aint always been perfect)


----------



## Freddie99

Here there be dragons... My letter to channel 4, hopefully in the post tomorrow!

Dear Sir/Madame,

	Having watched your documentary (or should I call it a Mockumentary as it seems to completely defeat the point of the aforementioned type of programme?) on the subject of diabetes in teenagers suffering from both type one and type two diabetes I am thoroughly disgusted and feel obliged to raise this with yourselves. 
	My primary complaint is that as a teenage diabetic myself and a well controlled one at that, is that you have tarred all teenage diabetics with the same brush. Your programme would have the general public believe that none of us who have the misfortune to be diabetic actually give a damn about their health. Quite the opposite is true, as I have previously stated I am a well controlled diabetic (most recent HbA1c  7.1% or 54 mmol/mol) yet your documentary would indicate to the uninitiated that we come about as frequently as Hailey’s comet. I feel obliged to point out that you are very, very far from the truth. In fact, you are almost as far from the truth as it is possible to be. I would hasten to point out that the way in which you have tarred all teenage diabetics with the same brush will have had something on a negative effect upon those of us who care for ourselves and make the point of staying in good health and attending their appointments. 
	Furthermore, your documentary failed to explain in any decent terms the differences between type one and type two. Any programme that has two similar sounding but fundamentally different items discussed should make it patently obvious what the differences are and what implications there are related to both subjects. Your programme is the perfect example of quad erat demonstrandum. For those of lacking a smattering of latin or merely a wide vocabulary that would mean “which proves the point in hand”. 
	Adding to what is frankly a comedy of errors there is a total lack of an explication as to what treatments are available for both type one and type two diabetics. You do not make it known that there are a variety of education programmes that many NHS trusts/PCT’s run to educate diabetics to successful manage their conditions. I am a graduate of one such course as are many of my closest friends. You fail to highlight that there are different ways of administering insulin other than a hypodermic. I myself use an insulin pump which is a whole world away, there is an increasing number of pump users out there. This doesn’t make up for your absolute lack of research into the differing types of treatment for both types of diabetes. 
	To conclude my disgusted diatribe against your incompetent researchers and the halfwits behind this disgraceful attempt at a documentary I must once again make clear my disgust for the fact that you clearly cannot research something fully and to a high degree. I also must express my sadness in the fact that you contribute to what will doubtlessly come around to harm other diabetics, be they type one or two. It also saddens me that in a day and age of boundless information being available so readily that the research which should have been done was not. Whichever person was responsible for this atrocity of a programme should answer for it as should my sense of curiosity for enticing me into watching it. Then again over my fourteen years of being diabetic I have developed something of an elephant thick skin for just this kind of insensitivity and stupidity.

Yours disgusted,



Tom Hreben


----------



## KayC

Just a thought...

Why doesn't someone (I'm thinking of you, Northerner!) write a letter to the BBC and ask to make a documentary programme with a more balanced view of diabetics???  I have more faith in the BBC than Channel4 and in my opinion, BBC are better and usually less biased at documentaries.  I don't feel confident in contacting them myself, because it's still a new experience to me and I have only just started understanding the condition of diabetes.  I'm also quite shy and would dread contacting them myself!

The programme could possibly focus on normal diabetic situations, not just worst case conditions.  It also possibly could show people's daily struggle in taking control; and of their real experience, successes and failures.  It won't have a shock value as in the channel 4's documentary, but would be more realistic in sharing people's experience, much more closer to the likes of me as a diabetic individual.


----------



## SilentAssassin1642

I think we should make our own documentary


----------



## scootdevon

*The program for me was a FAIL!!!!! *


----------



## tracey w

I missed the programme. By the sound of it, im quite glad that i did


----------



## stangi

Just a quick but big 'thank you' to Twitchy and Northerner for their supportive comments and info, and to anyone else who complains to Channel 4 like I did. I went on the Channel 4 website and used the 'contact us' bit, I hope to receive a reply soon.


----------



## SacredHeart

Has anyone looked into putting in a complaint to Ofcom?


----------



## SilentAssassin1642

SacredHeart said:


> Has anyone looked into putting in a complaint to Ofcom?



i think we should do it

I'm just putting my points across on my blog. It's a mix of good and bad really.


----------



## Becca

KayC said:


> Just a thought...
> 
> Why doesn't someone (I'm thinking of you, Northerner!) write a letter to the BBC and ask to make a documentary programme with a more balanced view of diabetics???  I have more faith in the BBC than Channel4 and in my opinion, BBC are better and usually less biased at documentaries.  I don't feel confident in contacting them myself, because it's still a new experience to me and I have only just started understanding the condition of diabetes.  I'm also quite shy and would dread contacting them myself!
> 
> The programme could possibly focus on normal diabetic situations, not just worst case conditions.  It also possibly could show people's daily struggle in taking control; and of their real experience, successes and failures.  It won't have a shock value as in the channel 4's documentary, but would be more realistic in sharing people's experience, much more closer to the likes of me as a diabetic individual.



I'm not sure who the health correspondent is now but i've dealt with Fergus Walsh from the BBC before.  There was going to be a news bit when Rose was not allowed in school.  Fergus Walsh listened, was very helpful and wanted to help people with diabetes.  Just a thought.....

Am now watching C4 tonight - there is a bit about obesity, they had better not mention type 1 or type 2!!


----------



## Becca

There is also this discussion on FB DUK boards:  http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/topic.php?uid=20583485166&topic=14599

It might raise a few eyebrows about the program?


----------



## SilentAssassin1642

post up on my blog:

http://www.talkingbloodglucose.com/2010/08/educating-masses.html

check it out, it turned into a bit of a rant near the end...


----------



## Northerner

Becca said:


> There is also this discussion on FB DUK boards:  http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/topic.php?uid=20583485166&topic=14599
> 
> It might raise a few eyebrows about the program?



She might have a point about the series as a whole focusing on teens abusing their health in various ways. The problem is that this is probably the only hour long programme about diabetes I've seen on mainstream telly since I was diagnosed. Given that I would be actively looking out for such programmes, the general public must have never seen a similar length programme devoted to a more balanced and well researched overview of diabetes. Ergo, they probably think we're all like that!


----------



## Catwoman76

TomH said:


> Here there be dragons... My letter to channel 4, hopefully in the post tomorrow!
> 
> Dear Sir/Madame,
> 
> Having watched your documentary (or should I call it a Mockumentary as it seems to completely defeat the point of the aforementioned type of programme?) on the subject of diabetes in teenagers suffering from both type one and type two diabetes I am thoroughly disgusted and feel obliged to raise this with yourselves.
> My primary complaint is that as a teenage diabetic myself and a well controlled one at that, is that you have tarred all teenage diabetics with the same brush. Your programme would have the general public believe that none of us who have the misfortune to be diabetic actually give a damn about their health. Quite the opposite is true, as I have previously stated I am a well controlled diabetic (most recent HbA1c  7.1% or 54 mmol/mol) yet your documentary would indicate to the uninitiated that we come about as frequently as Hailey?s comet. I feel obliged to point out that you are very, very far from the truth. In fact, you are almost as far from the truth as it is possible to be. I would hasten to point out that the way in which you have tarred all teenage diabetics with the same brush will have had something on a negative effect upon those of us who care for ourselves and make the point of staying in good health and attending their appointments.
> Furthermore, your documentary failed to explain in any decent terms the differences between type one and type two. Any programme that has two similar sounding but fundamentally different items discussed should make it patently obvious what the differences are and what implications there are related to both subjects. Your programme is the perfect example of quad erat demonstrandum. For those of lacking a smattering of latin or merely a wide vocabulary that would mean ?which proves the point in hand?.
> Adding to what is frankly a comedy of errors there is a total lack of an explication as to what treatments are available for both type one and type two diabetics. You do not make it known that there are a variety of education programmes that many NHS trusts/PCT?s run to educate diabetics to successful manage their conditions. I am a graduate of one such course as are many of my closest friends. You fail to highlight that there are different ways of administering insulin other than a hypodermic. I myself use an insulin pump which is a whole world away, there is an increasing number of pump users out there. This doesn?t make up for your absolute lack of research into the differing types of treatment for both types of diabetes.
> To conclude my disgusted diatribe against your incompetent researchers and the halfwits behind this disgraceful attempt at a documentary I must once again make clear my disgust for the fact that you clearly cannot research something fully and to a high degree. I also must express my sadness in the fact that you contribute to what will doubtlessly come around to harm other diabetics, be they type one or two. It also saddens me that in a day and age of boundless information being available so readily that the research which should have been done was not. Whichever person was responsible for this atrocity of a programme should answer for it as should my sense of curiosity for enticing me into watching it. Then again over my fourteen years of being diabetic I have developed something of an elephant thick skin for just this kind of insensitivity and stupidity.
> 
> Yours disgusted,
> 
> 
> 
> Tom Hreben



Excellent letter Tom, I wonder what sort of response you will get, full of , "we tried to blah blah blah and we did not wish to blah blah blah blah and more blah blah blah, we tried to show in this programme- GUESS WHAT even more blah blah bah bla blah, and I'm being polite! Good for you for putting your views across. Sheena


----------



## Sugarbum

Go Tom!  Great ending......!

I bet its a standard return though, remember the 'diabetes v Hollyoaks' not that long ago and all the C4 replies were the same.

I think Im scared by this program, Ive thought about it all day....


----------



## VictoriaGreen

Marvellous program! 

Now I feel 1000 times worse about having T2 diabetes. I'm going to die before my mum, having spent the prior years alone and unloved due to the size of my arse, and the fact that the stroke and the heart attack and the amputation mean I won't be able to have any kind of active social life. To add to that, I will have been ostracised by those arround me for bringing it on myself, and the NHS that I work bloody hard to pay into will withdraw care because I can't get down to a size 8.

Melodrama? Maybe, but I could cry right now. The irony? It makes me want to comfort eat hahah...


----------



## Northerner

Thinking about documetaries, it reminded me of Lee Nevitt's excellent video about his experiences with autonomic neuropathy. This is a complication that rarely gets mentioned - usually it's kidneys, blindness and amputations (which are pretty bad, I agree!) - but autonomic neuropathy is possibly one of the most frightening for me. Worth taking a(nother) look:

http://www.diabetessupport.co.uk/boards/showthread.php?t=8444

I bet the team who produced this could do a cracking documentary telling it how it REALLY is!


----------



## cherrypie

I don't understand why people are getting upset about it.

The whole series, not just this episode, is about teenagers and their attitude to life and lifestyle which is causing problems for the NHS.  It is not about well managed diabetics or even the struggle that people have managing their diabetes.

Next week it is about liver disease now prevalent in people in their early twenties due to excessive alcohol consumption.  If you drink in moderation will that mean that the programme will not be to your liking and will you complain that you are being stereotyped because you enjoy a drink?

What I did notice in the comments on Channel4 website is that there are some really indignant Type 1's who buy into the media stereotyping of Type 2's.  We brought it on ourselves through gluttony and inactivity.  I am sure some of them would like our foreheads tattooed with Type 2 so that people will know the difference.  More and more research is uncovering clues about why people get Type 2 and hopefully one day we will not be seen as "those fat people who brought it on themselves".


----------



## lucy123

I thinkk for me Cherrypie is that everyone I have told so far re diabetes has reacted in the same way - its because you are overweight and eat too much sugar. there has been very little coverage of diabetes generally on the tv so people assume. I think the doctors comments on lettuce and water did little to improve this and constant comments re weight made me wince. It did seem to be very one sided in its portrayal, maybe showing a teenager who was showing willingness and good control and maybe wasn't overweight would have balanced it a little more. Personally i now wish the program hadn't been aired as i am now battling the 'its because your overweight' comments all over again.


----------



## Steff

Have to say i agree with Cherrypie, but we all haver our own opinions.

For some people the programme was ok others it was way off the mark, 99 per cent of us are managing our diabetes ok, lets not let what we saw on a tv porgramme change that, the tv programme gave there opinion/slant on diabetes and whether thats right or wrong its happened. We have alot more to worry about then what was on a tv programme.


----------



## Northerner

cherrypie said:


> I don't understand why people are getting upset about it.
> 
> The whole series, not just this episode, is about teenagers and their attitude to life and lifestyle which is causing problems for the NHS.  It is not about well managed diabetics or even the struggle that people have managing their diabetes.
> 
> Next week it is about liver disease now prevalent in people in their early twenties due to excessive alcohol consumption.  If you drink in moderation will that mean that the programme will not be to your liking and will you complain that you are being stereotyped because you enjoy a drink?
> 
> What I did notice in the comments on Channel4 website is that there are some really indignant Type 1's who buy into the media stereotyping of Type 2's.  We brought it on ourselves through gluttony and inactivity.  I am sure some of them would like our foreheads tattooed with Type 2 so that people will know the difference.  More and more research is uncovering clues about why people get Type 2 and hopefully one day we will not be seen as "those fat people who brought it on themselves".



I do agree about the purpose of the programme not being about educating the public about diabetes. However, I think the message about the young people's poor lifestyle choices got intertwined in some way with generalisations about why people get diabetes. Your comment about research uncovering new information about causes is very true, but how often do you hear this mentioned in mainstream media when diabetes is being explained?

Regarding the Type1s who feel there is any truth in the 'fat and lazy' verdict on Type2s, I have always been very heartened by the fact that that is very rarely the case in this forum. I personally feel it is terrible that this is how Type2s are portrayed, no-one should be made to feel guilty because they have diabetes, and there is no 'good' and 'bad' reason for getting it.


----------



## ukjohn

I don't know what all the fuss is about, but I will say that cherrypie is correct in what she says, there are a lot of type 1s out there that seem to think there is some sort of stigma associated with type 2s. I am probably the longest serving member of this group, yes, I joined in October 2008 not November 2008 when you celebrate the forums birthday, but I contribute very little because I am fed up with reading where a type 2 asks for advice to find replys from type 1s saying sorry I cant help you because you are type2 and I am type 1 which is different, but someone will be along soon to help you.....why complain about the public lack of knowledge, when we feel we can't help each other type1 and type 2 because we feel we are different. I have news for some of you type 1s...I get the same problems as you and I am on MDI just like you, and have been on that insulin regime since first day of diagnoses. So, lets put our own house in order before jumping on others.


----------



## novorapidboi26

Were all here to help and at the very least give words of support.......

Im a type 1 and yes I can see the differences between 1s and 2s, they are different, 1s -no insulin 2s - have insulin.

Type 2s will also try and give advice to type 1s, why is that?

Is your MDI  not a temporary thing as a type 2?


----------



## Northerner

ukjohn said:


> I don't know what all the fuss is about, but I will say that cherrypie is correct in what she says, there are a lot of type 1s out there that seem to think there is some sort of stigma associated with type 2s. I am probably the longest serving member of this group, yes, I joined in October 2008 not November 2008 when you celebrate the forums birthday, but I contribute very little because I am fed up with reading where a type 2 asks for advice to find replys from type 1s saying sorry I cant help you because you are type2 and I am type 1 which is different, but someone will be along soon to help you.....why complain about the public lack of knowledge, when we feel we can't help each other type1 and type 2 because we feel we are different. I have news for some of you type 1s...I get the same problems as you and I am on MDI just like you, and have been on that insulin regime since first day of diagnoses. So, lets put our own house in order before jumping on others.



I must admit, I hadn't really got that impression John. Whenever someone not on insulin responds in that way to someone who is, or vice-versa, I've always thought it perfectly reasonable. Usually, the person is trying togive support in the form of encouragement, good wishes or concern, but admits to being ignorant of the mechanisms that may be causing the problem in question. There is a lot more interaction on this forum between people whose diabetes has different origins or treatments than on many others I have used, which I have always regarded as one of its strengths. I am always personally careful not to assume that, because someone is Type 2, they are not on insulin as I know many of you are.

Thank you for raising the point - any suggestions of how we can improve are always welcome.


----------



## Northerner

novorapidboi26 said:


> Were all here to help and at the very least give words of support.......
> 
> Im a type 1 and yes I can see the differences between 1s and 2s, they are different, 1s -no insulin 2s - have insulin.
> 
> Type 2s will also try and give advice to type 1s, why is that?
> 
> Is your MDI  not a temporary thing as a type 2?



That's not the case at all. A person with Type 2 may be put on insulin for precisely the same reason as a Type1 - their pancreas no longer produces insulin, or sufficient to keep their blood sugar in range.


----------



## ukjohn

Northerner....see novorapidboi26 message above, he is type 1 and assumes it must be a temporary thing that a type 2 is on insulin, which confirms my suggestion that we lack knowledge amongst ourselves in many cases..

novorapidboi

I was rushed into hospital by ambulance direct from the doctors surgery and diagnosed type 2, I was put on MDI from day one that was five years ago, and I was told that I would be on insulin for the rest of my life, not long to go now I suspect being 71 years old 

Thank you Northerner...You replied whilst I was typing..
John


----------



## novorapidboi26

Northerner said:


> That's not the case at all. A person with Type 2 may be put on insulin for precisely the same reason as a Type1 - their pancreas no longer produces insulin, or sufficient to keep their blood sugar in range.



If a type 2 pancreas has packed in altogether, then that is unfortunately type 1, would you not agree?????

If insulin is still produced, with the exception of type 1 honeymoon periods, then its type 2........

So my comment 1s -no insulin 2s have insulin still applies....


----------



## randomange

I watched this last night, and I thought it was a very interesting programme.   My issue with it came mainly with the consultant pretty much flat out stating that all problems relating to diabetes were self-inflicted, and suggesting that the NHS should start to refuse treatment to patients base in that.  This is something that I vehemently disagree with.  The best control in the world is not guaranteed to prevent complications, it only reduces the risk, and I think that to suggest that anyone who has problems relating to diabetes (no matter the type) has brought it on themselves is a very ignorant and dangerous thing to say.

With regards to helping other people on the forum, I only make suggestions or try and answer questions if I have some knowledge or experience of the matter.  If someone asks about MDI and I think I can help, I'll answer, regardless of whether the person is type 1 or 2 (or indeed 1.5).  If someone asks, for example, about Byetta or CGMS, I won't answer because I don't know much about it.  I think a lot of people on this do something similar, and you'll often see people offering sympathy or a hug, but saying they don't know much about the question being asked, and I don't think there's anything wring with that.  I agree with Northerner, one of the things I really like about this forum is that there is much more of a feeling of us all being diabetics, each with our own individual issues, rather than a big divide according to type.


----------



## Northerner

ukjohn said:


> Northerner....see novorapidboi26 message above, he is type 1 and assumes it must be a temporary thing that a type 2 is on insulin, which confirms my suggestion that we lack knowledge amongst ourselves in many cases..



Agreed we often lack knowledge, often due to the fact that, despite its seeming ubiquity, diabetics often live in isolation with their disease and are only aware vaguely of the experiences of others. I also agree that this lack of knowledge should not manifest itself as any kind of prejudice - all people with diabetes should recognise that we all face similar struggles and dangers. Unfortunately, not all people recognise that, as is the case in all walks of life. It's like saying left-handers are better than right-handers!


----------



## Northerner

novorapidboi26 said:


> If a type 2 pancreas has packed in altogether, then that is unfortunately type 1, would you not agree?????
> 
> If insulin is still produced, with the exception of type 1 honeymoon periods, then its type 2........
> 
> So my comment 1s -no insulin 2s have insulin still applies....



Sorry NRB, this assumption is incorrect - you don't change type because of your need for insulin.


----------



## randomange

novorapidboi26 said:


> If a type 2 pancreas has packed in altogether, then that is unfortunately type 1, would you not agree?????
> 
> If insulin is still produced, with the exception of type 1 honeymoon periods, then its type 2........
> 
> So my comment 1s -no insulin 2s have insulin still applies....



Actually, no, a type 2 does not become a type 1 if they are on insulin.  Type one is an auto immune disease in which the immune system destroys the insulin producing cells in the pancreas.  The mechanisms by which a type 2 can end up on insulin are different, so they merely become a type 2 on insulin.


----------



## novorapidboi26

ukjohn said:


> Northerner....see novorapidboi26 message above, he is type 1 and assumes it must be a temporary thing that a type 2 is on insulin, which confirms my suggestion that we lack knowledge amongst ourselves in many cases..
> 
> novorapidboi
> 
> I was rushed into hospital by ambulance direct from the doctors surgery and diagnosed type 2, I was put on MDI from day one that was five years ago, and I was told that I would be on insulin for the rest of my life, not long to go now I suspect being 71 years old
> 
> Thank you Northerner...You replied whilst I was typing..
> John



Im sure you will live for many years to come........

I believe if your on insulin as a type 2, at a good weight for your pancreas to cope with then that surely means the pancreas is slowly giving up and eventually you will become type 1, NO!


----------



## novorapidboi26

randomange said:


> Actually, no, a type 2 does not become a type 1 if they are on insulin.  Type one is an auto immune disease in which the immune system destroys the insulin producing cells in the pancreas.  The mechanisms by which a type 2 can end up on insulin are different, so they merely become a type 2 on insulin.



Good explanation...........so a type 2 pancreas can be knackered and its still type 2!!

I stand corrected!!


----------



## Northerner

novorapidboi26 said:


> Im sure you will live for many years to come........
> 
> I believe if your on insulin as a type 2, at a good weight for your pancreas to cope with then that surely means the pancreas is slowly giving up and eventually you will become type 1, NO!



See Ange's reply - No! 

Ah, you did!


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## Curdster

What is the problem with testing BS which I found highlighted in this programme? I have no quarms with this and never had. The meters are so small these days, and no one bats an eyelid as a fuss is not requried. I never carry the carry-case, and have the meter and strips in either my jeans pocket or suit jacket for easy access. 
Surely not injecting must make them feel horrendous. How can you go through life feeling like that when a test is so simple. Normally with high levels there is a need to visit the loo more often and therefore an ideal opportunity to test and inject. Don't have time, my arse.
I almost want to volunteer myself up for a day in the life of a normal DB! From the TV producers and those shown. I don't see my lifestyle being any different from others and my friends. We need a balanced view.


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## Northerner

I suspect they don't test because they are afraid of what the numbers might be Curdster! Agree about how awful they must feel - that young lad at the start who had levels of 50 (50!!! :eek) must have felt dreadful. I was 37 when admitted and I was nearly dead - never felt so bad in my life! Even now, anything double figures makes me feel rough. Perhaps their bodies have adjusted to being high all the time (and doing slow, unseen damage, even though they don't feel too bad).


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## Curdster

Yes 50 was a shock. I have had some highs but no where need that bad. They must be drinking like mad. I dread to think what woudl happen to me at 50, 
Do you think that we were only shown the extremes here and that there were other DB's available but that they did not produce the shock value requried to make the ratings?


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## novorapidboi26

It seemed to me that it was just that hospital..................

It did focus on teens and young adults though.........everyone else was probably tyring there best...........


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## Sebstar

Northerner said:


> Didn't like the conclusion with the doctor planting the idea that diabetes was a (inevitable, almost) consequence of being fat and lazy - particularly since he was displaying a personal tendency towards visceral adiposity!



I noticed that all the health care professionals were overweight!


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## Freddie99

Letter signed and ready to be posted...


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## Northerner

Curdster said:


> Yes 50 was a shock. I have had some highs but no where need that bad. They must be drinking like mad. I dread to think what woudl happen to me at 50,
> Do you think that we were only shown the extremes here and that there were other DB's available but that they did not produce the shock value requried to make the ratings?



I'm pretty sure they picked the worst cases for maximum effect.  I was in hospital for 8 days when I got diagnosed, no way could I have left the same/next day. 

It might be interesting if they ever do a '5 years later' follow-up to the whole series, to see what happened to all the youngsters - who managed to turn their lives around and how they did it, plus the (almost inevitable, I suspect) missing faces


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## Becca

Northerner said:


> I'm pretty sure they picked the worst cases for maximum effect.  I was in hospital for 8 days when I got diagnosed, no way could I have left the same/next day.
> 
> It might be interesting if they ever do a '5 years later' follow-up to the whole series, to see what happened to all the youngsters - who managed to turn their lives around and how they did it, plus the (almost inevitable, I suspect) missing faces



From a parent's point of view, i will be devastated if or when Rose gets complications.  She's been diagnosed nearly 5 years now and i keep thinking what will happen in then next 10.  I want to be able to look her in the eye when she's older and say we did the best we could for her.

I hate to think what the next 5 years will bring for the teenagers in the programme.  I wish i could just help them...


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## katie

Curdster said:


> What is the problem with testing BS which I found highlighted in this programme? I have no quarms with this and never had. The meters are so small these days, and no one bats an eyelid as a fuss is not requried. I never carry the carry-case, and have the meter and strips in either my jeans pocket or suit jacket for easy access.
> ...
> I almost want to volunteer myself up for a day in the life of a normal DB! From the TV producers and those shown. I don't see my lifestyle being any different from others and my friends. We need a balanced view.



I get lazy with testing, I think it's one of the easiest things to slack on.  It's just time consuming.  I start making dinner, plate it up, start eating and then realise I haven't tested yet.  So damnit, I put my plate down, test and start again.  Testing in front of people who don't yet know you have Diabetes is another reason why people won't do it.  

I agree with your lat point completely.  I hate it when people say they are different and it holds them back!  That's funny because i'm no different from my friends, and it NEVER holds me back.  It's a pain in the bum sometimes, but everyone has their own problems


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## Copepod

Sebstar said:


> I noticed that all the health care professionals were overweight!



Agreed. I had an interesting conversation with an ex AAC helicopter pilot recently. When I admitted to a few years as a TA Nursing Officer, he mumbled something about not wanting to comment on army medical staff fitness levels and body shape (he was a volunteer in a health research project), so I admitted to doing many extra BFTs (basic fitness tests - running a set distance within a time limit depending on age & sex) to get my colleagues to pass. Is till think I'd pass, and BMI is still within recommended levels. However, I  didn't think quickly enough to point out that an RAMC doctor was the female in the 4 person British team who became adventure race world champions in Nov 2009. 

And, as Katie mentions the topic, I admit to being one of those people who sometimes doesn't test if I don't want people to know - injecting is so quick, I can usually do without anyone noticing, but finger pricking etc takes a bit longer and requires a bit more care. Sometimes letting people know would mean they would try to stop me eg staffing remote race checkpoints alone for hours / days, which I am prefectly able to do.


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## Curdster

Copepod. Weird this is, as I find injecting the difficult one and testing the easy. I have always assumed that sticking in a syringe needle is socialy less acceptable then blood testing which I do quite frequently. I also can't inject through clothes. Maybe it's like feeding babies in public. Some can do it and others can't.


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## Copepod

Injecting just requires 1 hand & tummy, which is usually beneath a table or hidden by standing & turning my back, while finger pricking & blood testing needs 2 hands, and ideally a surface on which to place meter - lap under table will sometimes do, but unless there's a wall or something close by, then I'd need to sit / squat to hold meter (and when outdoors, high winds can take a meter off a dry stone wall, believe me!) Plus, injections rarely draw blood to get onto clothing, while finger pricking always draws blood (provided I've done it right!) As I said before, injecting is quicker than blood testing, and blood testing followed by injecting obviously takes longer. There are plenty of times when I don't mind who sees me, usually close friends / relatives or random members of the public; it's the people in between eg new work colleagues, people I've only just met, who I prefer to "reveal" diabetes to at the right moment, preferably after they've realised that I don't keel over nor need extra help nor restrictions. I virtually never inject through clothing, but do prefer trousers and tops instead of dresses, and have found the little hole made possible by slightly unzipping zip-off trouser legs very useful for occasional thigh injections.


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## katie

I find injecting much quicker, and peoople often dont notice.  If I'm testing i have to try squeezing blood out of my finger and I think if people see it they probably get a bit grossed out!  It still doesn't bother me, but sometimes i dont like people to immediately find out im type 1.


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## Cate

I used to be treated at the hospital where the programme was filmed.  My experiences there (as an adult) were not good.  EG My consultant at the time refused to prescribe glargine for me because it was "too expensive, and hasn't been around long enough for us to know it works".  This was in about 2001 or 2002 I think, so it wasn't exactly brand new!

The consulant they showed was a LOT better than the one I had, who has now retired.  A typical appointment with her lasted 5 minutes, and there was no access to DSNs or dieticians etc during the clinic, or at all as far as I'm aware - I certainly didn't have a DSN to contact.  The majority of patients seen there were older type 2s who spoke English as a 2nd language, mostly they attended without an interpreter, the odd one had a family member along who would translate for them.  I think that's mostly why the consultant never listened - normally there wasn't much to listen to.  She'd generally look at test results, write down what insulin you were to take from now on and that was that.  There was never a discussion about why she had changed things, why results were high/low/what was affecting them, what to do to correct bad results.  I don't think she liked me much, I used to ask questions 

BTW re the weight thing, I took that comment to be specifically about the girl on Byetta, I thought she'd been diagnosed as type 2 aged 11 (she was 17 and her diagnosis was 6 years ago I think?), which is pretty young after all, and likely influenced by her weight, no?


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## katie

Cate, that sounds awful :/

I'm so glad that my local hospital just happens to have one of the best Diabetes and Endocrine centres in the UK.  I'm actually quite worried about moving away for that reason alone.  It's a postcode lottery, as ever.


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## treasure_ireland

aymes said:


> All in all I think they did a good job with that. Sure there are a few bits I would have rephrased slightly maybe but no major issues with it at all. I think it fitted in well with the context of the whole series, it did what it set out to do. It maybe would have been nice if they'd followed one person who did test and inject regularly to show the alternative but that's only a minor point.
> I did find some of the young people they followed frustrating, although I do understand the reasons behind their behaviour, just frustrating that there seems no way to help them change their attitude. One look at that foot will be enough to scare me for sometime, there were several texts exchanged between me and my D friends at that point!
> The message that came through strongest for me though was frustration on behalf of the medical staff, knowing that their help (and nhs resources) is just ignored and what that may well lead to must be destroying. It's definately increased my empathy for them, and I understand the shock of some when I get very involved in everything! Oh, and I want that doctor to be my doctor!



I agree with you Aymes!

I feel that it did make a point, and definetly fitted in with the whole series. The point was to scare people, and hopefully that making them sort it out.

But yes of course we were all very wronly put into a sterotype, which annoys me, I think if they listed the differences between the two types would of educated people abit more, im sick of people asking if I have diabetes because i ate too many sweets as a kid, and ridiculous remarks like that!

That doctor though, I did feel for him. I liked the fact that the patients lied, but he can read straight through them, like they think hes a mug!

& the mum of that girl, I genuinely couldnt believe the things she said! Her daughter was fifteeen, and she said "yeh she handles all that". When i was diagnosed at 8, my mum learned everything with me, and helped me control my diabetes til i was probably 18. I cant believe at that age she has NO support, her Mum should be ashamed!

Ok rant over, phew!


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## bev

Hello all,
Just a flying visit as on holiday.
I let Alex watch the programme as he is 12.
Alex's view of the whole programme was that it was the fault of the teams', peoples laziness and general ignorance. He thought it was stupid that they didnt bother testing and cant think why they would choose to do this. He felt very sorry for the 15 year old girl and thought that her mother was fairly stupid for letting the girl just 'get on with it' on her own. His eyes were getting bigger with shock as they details of everyones 'methods' were divulged.

Overall I thought it was a very good programme and servied its purpose for us at least - which was to show in visual terms what complications mean. I could tell Alex until I am blue in the face and he wouldnt take it in - but 'seeing' it has much more power than my words ever could.

Sorry I havent read all your replies yet - will read when i get home. Hope your all ok.Bev


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## treasure_ireland

ukjohn said:


> I don't know what all the fuss is about, but I will say that cherrypie is correct in what she says, there are a lot of type 1s out there that seem to think there is some sort of stigma associated with type 2s. I am probably the longest serving member of this group, yes, I joined in October 2008 not November 2008 when you celebrate the forums birthday, but I contribute very little because I am fed up with reading where a type 2 asks for advice to find replys from type 1s saying sorry I cant help you because you are type2 and I am type 1 which is different, but someone will be along soon to help you.....why complain about the public lack of knowledge, when we feel we can't help each other type1 and type 2 because we feel we are different. I have news for some of you type 1s...I get the same problems as you and I am on MDI just like you, and have been on that insulin regime since first day of diagnoses. So, lets put our own house in order before jumping on others.



I agree with "there are a lot of type 1s out there that seem to think there is some sort of stigma associated with type 2s".

But look at all the awareness posters from DUK, they all say watch your wasteband!

I dont think I have ever seen a poster about some of the symptoms of Type 1 or type 2.

& why arnt DUK putting out the other reasons or ways to help?

I think there is a serious lack of awareness out there for both types of diabetes, and im not sure who is to blame for this!


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## Northerner

bev said:


> Hello all,
> Just a flying visit as on holiday.
> I let Alex watch the programme as he is 12.
> Alex's view of the whole programme was that it was the fault of the teams', peoples laziness and general ignorance. He thought it was stupid that they didnt bother testing and cant think why they would choose to do this. He felt very sorry for the 15 year old girl and thought that her mother was fairly stupid for letting the girl just 'get on with it' on her own. His eyes were getting bigger with shock as they details of everyones 'methods' were divulged.
> 
> Overall I thought it was a very good programme and servied its purpose for us at least - which was to show in visual terms what complications mean. I could tell Alex until I am blue in the face and he wouldnt take it in - but 'seeing' it has much more power than my words ever could.
> 
> Sorry I havent read all your replies yet - will read when i get home. Hope your all ok.Bev



Hope you are enjoying your hols! Good to hear Alex's views on the programme - once again he has shown what a mature and intelligent boy he is.


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## treasure_ireland

Northerner said:


> I suspect they don't test because they are afraid of what the numbers might be Curdster! Agree about how awful they must feel - that young lad at the start who had levels of 50 (50!!! :eek) must have felt dreadful. I was 37 when admitted and I was nearly dead - never felt so bad in my life! Even now, anything double figures makes me feel rough. Perhaps their bodies have adjusted to being high all the time (and doing slow, unseen damage, even though they don't feel too bad).



I didnt even know 50 was possible!

I feel groggy at 14, let alone 50 i cant imagine how he feels.

Altho if he is high often, is suppose he has no signs or high or low anymore!

Btw, the reason for lots of replies to this post, is because i only managed to watch the programme last night, so this morning i was desperate for a rant, and had been waiting to read all the posts, and im slowly making my way through the replies


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## CarolK

I think the problem is that most teenagers feel the need to rebel against most things, and I suppose not testing etc is just another form of rebellion. At 15 you think 30 is ancient and dont really think of any consequences that may/.may not happen in 10 or 20 years. I went through the teenage years with my diabetic son and felt it was one long battle of wills, nagging him to test and remnding him to inject. Also had times when he had to much to drink and ended up in A & E. I think a lot of youngsters go through that, twice as difficult throwing diabetes into the mix. I do think though that the parents should have been more involved, you keep on nagging and whats kept me going is that i know when he a lot older he will realise why I was doing it.


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## SacredHeart

Finally got round to watching it on 4od - writing a blog post now


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## SacredHeart

Post is finished and up - http://bit.ly/cdmVtI


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## Steff

SacredHeart said:


> Post is finished and up - http://bit.ly/cdmVtI



Nice blog piece Bex,I perticularly agree with your last paragraph.


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## SacredHeart

Thanks Steff


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## Freddie99

I must point out that when I wasn't carb counting and had bad control that I could be at thirty and not feel it. When I got good control and learned to carb count I started to feel dodgy at about fifteen. Now I feel dodgy the minute it passes 10 or 11mmol/L. 

On a good note, I've posted my letter today. Waiting for the hitman to pounce on the way home now hahaha.


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## Twitchy

*Comments to / from C4 re the programme...*

Hi all, sorry for huge post, but thought some might find this interesting; my comments to C4 & their reply (punctuation all theirs!):
*
Channel 4's reply:*
Thank you for your e-mail regarding the recent episode of THE HOSPITAL, which featured teenagers with diabetes.  Having spoken to the producer of the programme regarding your complaint that no definite distinction was made between Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes, he advised the following:-

?Unfortunately when making a 48 minute programme out of over 100 hours of footage we need to make some difficult decisions about what information is and is not germane to the documentary. Please allow me to explain why we felt that the difference between Type 1 and Type 2 was not central to the film:

THE HOSPITAL  is a series specifically about the challenges that some of today?s teenagers are presenting for the NHS and a chance for doctors to give their views on what this means for it in the future and also what should and/or can be done about it. 

In the case of the film we made at Mayday Hospital, one of the main challenges for  Dr Richard Savine and his team is not the causes of diabetes, (i.e. whether it?s Type 1 or Type 2) but the impact on the NHS of the growth in the incidence of diabetes, not just in the general population, but among young people too and the struggle to get younger patients to take the illness seriously once they have been diagnosed with either type of the disease (as exemplified in the film by Francesca who has Type I and Yasmin who we clearly state has Type 2).  This is the reality of the situation there as we observed it over several months and hence the main narrative thrust of the programme.

Dr Savine, Mayday Hospital and the patients who featured prominently in the film have all viewed it, agreed that it was fair, accurate, and in line with the editorial aims described to them at the outset of their involvement. Having said that, and although neither the medical staff nor the patients asked for the film to further clarify between Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes, you will note that the difference between Type 1 and Type 2 is the first link on the Channel 4 website which supports the series, as we are alive to the significance of this difference for those who wish to further understand the disease. (www.channel4.com/thehospital)

One of our aims in making the film was to help the general public and teenage diabetics in particular to see diabetes for the serious illness that it is. We know that in the case of at least one of the patients featured in the documentary,  this did happen. Hopefully others who saw it will also take better control of their condition. Our production team spent months with the patients and the doctors, are still in touch with some of them, and care about their wellbeing. ?

We appreciate you taking the time to send us your feedback, which has been noted for the information of those responsible for the programme.

Thank you again for taking the time to contact us here at Channel 4 and for your interest in our programming.
*
Original Message Follows: ------------------------
*As a type 1 diabetic of 31 yrs (I'm 32), I watched The Hospital yesterday with great interest. On the positive side, you did manage to quite graphically get across the complications that can come with diabetes. What was really disappointing however was the lack of clarity between the two types of diabetes, and the way that no mention was made of how hard it actually is to control diabetes in reality. I also couldn't find any mention of how educated the featured diabetics were about their condition - they certainly didn't appear to know any more than that they had to test & do injections, but no link between the two was made - for example when the girl tested and got a 'high' reading, no attempt was made to establish whether she even knew how to effectively respond. This apparent lack of education combined with the poor levels of support the teenagers were getting at home might go a long way to explaining why they have the attitude they have - and from my experience, a couple of appointments a year with no real support in between doesn't cut it! Sweeping statements at the end of the programme about complications being all self-inflicted were not helpful either. I just wish you had also featured one of the many teenage diabetics who DO take their condition seriously - it's hard enough to manage that I imagine such a case study would have provided highs/lows enough for any production team, as well as helping produce a much more balanced, less tabloid looking programme! I have so much more I want to say but i haven't time - I would just say if you at all take this subject seriously, please take a look at the support forum diabetes-support .co.uk - the reading there on this subject may be uncomfortable for you but should be educational!
************

Didn't really expect any other reply to be honest, but at least they replied!


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## Sugarbum

Well done Twitchy!

I am glad that they took the time to reply, I am sure they will have received many letters with the same tone so I wonder if that is the standard reply?

Its more specific than I thought, so its pleasing that there is a response at least.but there isnt much to take from it...

Well done!


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## Northerner

It doesn't really address your points about education and support, does it? I'm pretty sure those issues were the main reason these youngsters had such a poor and confused understanding of their diabetes. But well done for trying!

p.s. there's no hyphen in our forum address - putting the hyphen in sends them to another forum with a very similar name!


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## Steff

Nice reply from channel 4 and got back to you within 48


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## Twitchy

Northerner said:


> p.s. there's no hyphen in our forum address - putting the hyphen in sends them to another forum with a very similar name!



B****r!!!   Hopefully a forum with some suitabley strongly worded opinions on it, anyway!!


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## Twitchy

I know, I know, I'm like a dog with a bone, but this really bugged me... so I emailed again...

*******
*
To C4*
Many thanks for your response, it is appreciated.  Would you please be kind enough to pass on two more comments to the producers?  The first was just that I erroneously included a hyphen in the name of the forum I mentioned - it should have been DiabetesSupport.co,uk - if they are ever planning another documentary on diabetes (of any type!) I suspect they would find many articulate & enthusiastic volunteers there! 


The other point I just wished to make in response to the producers comments, was just to say that I still feel the distinction between the types, especially considering teenagers is essential.  You may recall the government's recent "Fit for life" campaign - what you might not know is that almost immediately after it was aired, incidences of bullying of type 1 diabetics in schools dramatically increased, with children & teenagers being accused of bringing the condition on themselves by being fat or eating too many sweets, in spite of the clear fact that Type 1 is an autoimmune condition, not lifestyle related.  A group of parents petitioned the government successfully and managed to get the wording of the adverts changed.  I think this just confirms how sensitive the issue can be, and personnally feel that the perceived social stigma due to general ignorance around diabetes and it's causes might be a significant factor in why some teens don't want to be 'visible' diabetics and try to ignore their condition.


Once again, thank-you for your patience in reading my comments & responding to them.

**************************
*
C4's response:*

Please be assured your further comments have been noted and logged and have been forwarded for the information of those responsible for our programming. 

Thank you again for taking the time to contact us.

**********************
OK, promise to leave this alone now....!! (Hope I got my facts right re the fit for life campaign!!  )


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## novorapidboi26

Thouroughly enjoyed the read, thanks twitchy...........


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## Freddie99

I'm waiting for a letter back from Channel four. Then again I suppose they don't even know what a letter is so I'll be waiting in vain. I'm seriously thinking about writing to Professor Savine. I like his style. 

Tom


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## katie

Nice response from them, sounds like they took their time to reply.  I learnt a new word too, 'germane', never heard it before. Thought it was a footballer's name or something...

Check out this picture of the doctor:







How silly, bet he's never given an insulin shot in his life


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## Freddie99

I wasn't paying enough attention to what was said, I was too busy shouting at my laptop when I was watching it!
Almost time for me to go and drag my DSN to a game of football...


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## Adrienne

There have been a couple of replies from channel 4 to the mums on the email list and they are the same bog standard replies.   Guess someone just hits a button.


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## katie

Yay, it's on again tonight.

I'm about to watch "when cousins marry" :/


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## Sugarbum

Oh dude, me too.....

This week is supposed to be on a liver unit at Kings, my local hospital so I will be watching goggle-eyed....

Im also tuned in on this first cousin thing- how sad this is....


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## Northerner

Sugarbum said:


> Oh dude, me too.....
> 
> This week is supposed to be on a liver unit at Kings, my local hospital so I will be watching goggle-eyed....
> 
> Im also tuned in on this first cousin thing- how sad this is....



It will be interesting to see how I react to this one, as it's not quite so close to home.


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## Sugarbum

Wow the liver is big.....

Anyone watching?


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## Northerner

Sugarbum said:


> Wow the liver is big.....
> 
> Anyone watching?



I started a new thread for liver discussions!


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## Sugarbum

Northerner said:


> I started a new thread for liver discussions!




Gotcha  !


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## grahams mum

i just watched the episode  i felt really angry because of the attitude of the doc talking only about being fat and overeating  you dont really get diabetes like that he did not mention anithing about t1 and t2 and really all the patient that they are missing their app after a few times they should be fined or something like that (but probably they dont care) jdrf are sending out article about the programme any body got it yet?


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## rossi_mac

Only got round to watching this last night, I found it very interesting, yes there are clips of what some say that you could get het up about, but all round from my point of view I think it was good, and highlights the seriousness of this thing, not so good!, I just wish amoungst others, all those going through teenage angst or whatever it is see the light with as few complications as possible.

Take care one & all

Rossi


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## Shaunboy

*Sugarbum thanks.*

Not sure yet how to use this site.will keep learningx


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