# My name is Pine Marten and I am a Luddite...



## Pine Marten (May 7, 2016)

I will never understand technology. My pc went weird yesterday (Windows 10  ) and I couldn't get it to do Chrome or save certain things (don't ask me, I don't know). So in a rage I switched off at the plug.

Just now I turned it on and lo! it has all come back and seems fine. Just goes to show that swearing loudly at it, thumping it, and switching off at the plug seems to work 

I am not meant to live in the 21st century, I am much happier with the Yorkists in the 15th century....


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## Northerner (May 7, 2016)

Hehe!  I suspect the 'turning it off and turning it back on again' was the most crucial step in your remedy


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## Amberzak (May 7, 2016)

I'd be lost without technology. I rely on my phone to find my way around when I leave the house (I have no sense of direction). I use computers and iPads in all my teaching and in my work making resources. My life revolves around technology, not least of all with my diabetes management.

Yeah, I wouldn't survive if all technology were to fail tomorrow. He he.


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## khskel (May 7, 2016)

I'd be out of a job without tech


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## Robin (May 7, 2016)

I often have to ask my kids for advice with computers etc. Their first question is always 'Have you tried switching it on and off again?'


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## Pine Marten (May 7, 2016)

I suppose we all have our strengths and weaknesses - I am arty-farty, so can sing, paint, I like history, theatre & literature etc., but if I'm faced with anything mathematical or techy I am completely flummoxed. But the 'turn it off and turn it back on again' definitely seems to be the one-stop answer to disobedient machines!


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## Pine Marten (May 7, 2016)

Robin said:


> I often have to ask my kids for advice with computers etc. Their first question is always 'Have you tried switching it on and off again?'


Me too - especially when my son still lived at home. He could get the TV or any other bit of tech to work mainly by looking at it and clicking some button...


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## Northerner (May 7, 2016)

I got interested in computers right at the start of the home computer boom, with a Sinclair ZX81. It was more due to a love/aptitude for languages than any scientific leanings (my degree was in Russian). It used to annoy me intensely when I was looking for my first job in computers and they all demanded a maths or science background  Most programming is about language, not maths, because you need to have a creative, artistic mind to design a good program that will be readily understood by others who may need to revisit it in the years to come (as is the case with most business computer systems). You could always tell programs written by those with an extreme scientific/maths background because they would often be inscrutable and difficult to maintain. Of course, that's a huge generalisation, but I do think it demonstrates the kind of incorrect assumptions being made about suitability for the job. It's still true today to a large extent - there is a strong association with anything techy being only accessible to science-nerds


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## Copepod (May 7, 2016)

What about the step of commissioning IT services, poorly designed initially, then changed many times during development? Sometimes IT professionals are working in impossible situation.


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## Pine Marten (May 7, 2016)

My trouble is, I just panic - I dare not click any buttons I don't know in case it self-destructs! And then I just get frustrated and angry because I don't know what to do 

But yesterday morning was nice because I went to the Giorgione exhibition at the Royal Academy. So pleasing to be surrounded by lovely Renaissance paintings...


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## robert@fm (May 7, 2016)

Northerner said:


> Most programming is about language, not maths, because you need to have a creative, artistic mind to design a good program that will be readily understood by others who may need to revisit it in the years to come (as is the case with most business computer systems).


Legend has it (I think I read this in the trade newspaper _Computer Weekly_) that one subroutine had as its sole comment in the source code, "When I wrote this routine, only I and God knew how it worked, Now, God alone knows."


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## Northerner (May 7, 2016)

robert@fm said:


> Legend has it (I think I read this in the trade newspaper _Computer Weekly_) that one subroutine had as its sole comment in the source code, "When I wrote this routine, only I and God knew how it worked, Now, God alone knows."


Hehe!  I must admit, at one previous employer where the other programmers weren't very advanced, I've often wondered if they've fathomed out how one particular program I wrote works


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## Annette (May 7, 2016)

Pine Marten said:


> My trouble is, I just panic - I dare not click any buttons I don't know in case it self-destructs!


Better that than people I have to deal with who, in panic, press every button they can find...


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## Ralph-YK (May 7, 2016)

I did some programming, as well as dealing with students who were learning programming.  Dealing with other peoples code can be bad, particularly is Pascal. COBOL is not so bad.
A lot of students write the following code: IF _condition_ THEN blank ELSE _command_


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## Ralph-YK (May 7, 2016)

Annette Anderson said:


> Better that than people I have to deal with who, in panic, press every button they can find...


I'm still waiting for someone to make a computer blow up by pressing anything.


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## Ralph-YK (May 7, 2016)

Also I'm waiting for AI robot doctors, who, about a patient, will say "Have you tried turning it off and back on again!"


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## Robin (May 7, 2016)

Ralph-YK said:


> Also I'm waiting for AI robot doctors, who, about a patient, will say "Have you tried turning it off and back on again!"


Well there is a procedure for regulating a fast heart beat which involves stopping the heart and starting it again....


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## Diabeticliberty (May 7, 2016)

Pine Marten said:


> I suppose we all have our strengths and weaknesses - I am arty-farty, so can sing, paint, I like history, theatre & literature etc., but if I'm faced with anything mathematical or techy I am completely flummoxed. But the 'turn it off and turn it back on again' definitely seems to be the one-stop answer to disobedient machines!




If you can sing and paint then you don't need technology. The day we run out of oil and gas sometime really soon the people with really good voices will be charging a premium as we all huddle round camp fires trying to keep warm and having a sing song


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## Diabeticliberty (May 7, 2016)

Northerner said:


> I got interested in computers right at the start of the home computer boom, with a Sinclair ZX81. It was more due to a love/aptitude for languages than any scientific leanings (my degree was in Russian). It used to annoy me intensely when I was looking for my first job in computers and they all demanded a maths or science background  Most programming is about language, not maths, because you need to have a creative, artistic mind to design a good program that will be readily understood by others who may need to revisit it in the years to come (as is the case with most business computer systems). You could always tell programs written by those with an extreme scientific/maths background because they would often be inscrutable and difficult to maintain. Of course, that's a huge generalisation, but I do think it demonstrates the kind of incorrect assumptions being made about suitability for the job. It's still true today to a large extent - there is a strong association with anything techy being only accessible to science-nerds




Sinclair ZX81 good Lord now that really does take me back. If I remember correctly try then the ZX80 precluded it and the Spectrum was next. Used to have to plug a tape cassette into it on which the programmes were written. You have walked over my grave with this stuff


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## khskel (May 7, 2016)

Remember my ZX81 well many happy hours entering lines of basic. I even managed to write a primitive music sequencer for it.


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## Ralph-YK (May 7, 2016)

Robin said:


> Well there is a procedure for regulating a fast heart beat which involves stopping the heart and starting it again....


Are you talking defibrillator.
See: left shoulder.


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## Pine Marten (May 8, 2016)

Ralph-YK said:


> I did some programming, as well as dealing with students who were learning programming.  Dealing with other peoples code can be bad, particularly is Pascal. COBOL is not so bad.
> A lot of students write the following code: IF _condition_ THEN blank ELSE _command_


Er..........huh?...


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## AlisonM (May 8, 2016)

Ralph-YK said:


> I'm still waiting for someone to make a computer blow up by pressing anything.


My MacII used to blow up, sort of. The Mac equivalent of the Blue Screen of Death was a little black bomb that went BANG! at you. My first computer was a ZX Spectrum I'm out of the same tera as Northe, but I came to computing via art not languages and certainly not science. Having said that, I got into it by trying to write code in Basic that would display, graphically, the Mandelbrot Julia Set for my mother whose name was Julia. She was dead chuffed.


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## Northerner (May 8, 2016)

AlisonM said:


> My MacII used to blow up, sort of. The Mac equivalent of the Blue Screen of Death was a little black bomb that went BANG! at you. My first computer was a ZX Spectrum I'm out of the same tera as Northe, but I came to computing via art not languages and certainly not science. Having said that, I got into it by trying to write code in Basic that would display, graphically, the Mandelbrot Julia Set for my mother whose name was Julia. She was dead chuffed.


Ha! I used to type that code into the spectrums in WH Smiths! Fabulous, and a lot more impressive than getting a swear word to repeat ad infinitum  I seem to remember it was quite a short piece of code


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## Annette (May 8, 2016)

I learnt to write in BASIC, then was forced to learn TurboPascal at uni. Hateful hateful hateful language...


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## AlisonM (May 8, 2016)

Northerner said:


> Ha! I used to type that code into the spectrums in WH Smiths! Fabulous, and a lot more impressive than getting a swear word to repeat ad infinitum  I seem to remember it was quite a short piece of code


Not being a maths whizz like my ma, I had no clue what it was all about, it just looked gorgeous when I got it working. And, yes it was quite a short bit of code.


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## Ralph-YK (May 8, 2016)

Annette Anderson said:


> I learnt to write in BASIC, then was forced to learn TurboPascal at uni. Hateful hateful hateful language...


Oh it's TurboPascal I learnt. I've got a copy and still use it.  I really liked it.


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## Vicsetter (May 8, 2016)

I have had a problem with a couple of PCs recently and it's all come down to a Windows 10 Update, which was kindly installing without telling anyone.  Switching it off and back on worked for my wifes PC as well.


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## Mark Parrott (May 11, 2016)

Diabeticliberty said:


> Sinclair ZX81 good Lord now that really does take me back. If I remember correctly try then the ZX80 precluded it and the Spectrum was next. Used to have to plug a tape cassette into it on which the programmes were written. You have walked over my grave with this stuff


When you think about it, it's amazing what you could do with a ZX81 & Spectrum. These days even a simple Word document wouldnt fit on a ZX81 memory chip. How did they manage to make games that were only 1k!


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## Northerner (May 11, 2016)

Mark Parrott said:


> When you think about it, it's amazing what you could do with a ZX81 & Spectrum. These days even a simple Word document wouldnt fit on a ZX81 memory chip. How did they manage to make games that were only 1k!


Expectations were a lot lower back then, and you couldn't really do much without the 16k expansion pack, although 3-D Monter Maze was pretty amazing in 16k  I think that in a lot of the early games they concentrated on gameplay rather than graphics and sound, which were pretty limited, so the games were quite addictive rather than pretty


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## Martin Canty (May 11, 2016)

Ah, I remember, back in the 70's a friend of mine built his own computer.... Wondered what on earth he would do with it... In the mid 90's a co-worker had an internet account.... Wondered what on earth he would do with it.....

My profession? Computer programmer


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## trophywench (May 11, 2016)

LOL - my nephew's degree in as a Systems Programer, used to work at Sumitomo Bank in the City, over the systems in the Dealing room.  He moved to Sydney with them yonks ago.

He's far happier now, living on the beach with his dog virtually and setting up websites and mini networks for local businesses! (and mountain biking when he isn't)


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## KookyCat (May 11, 2016)

OMG you're a bunch of nerds, I was far too busy to bother with a ZX spectrum, wasn't remotely interested in anything computer related at all, awful things.  Then I had to learn HTML, JavaScript, and some oracle related nonsense that I've suppressed emotionally because it was so traumatic.  I still much prefer saying "make it do this" whilst presenting someone with a nice logical system diagram.  I can do it myself but nobody wants to sit near me whilst I swear at it and pout because it insists on absolute accuracy, and all that ruddy typing yawn....I like to consider myself more of a conceptual architect 

I personally also favour the "just press it" approach, if the programmer couldn't be bothered to write something logical then they're practically begging me to break it


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## trophywench (May 11, 2016)

Well that's how they used to design progs wasn't it?  Bit like deleting emails - 'Are you sure you want to delete this?'  Then when subsequently emptying the 'Deleted' folder 'Are you sure you want to completely delete all of these emails For Ever?'  LOL

ie as Idiot Proof as they could make them - User Friendly!

I have difficulty turning the ruddy volume up and down on the telly these days! - always choose the wrong button first and turn it down when I already can't hear it ......


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## Northerner (May 12, 2016)

I remember my first 'real' job in computer programming. I started at the same time as another guy who had a similar amount of knowledge. However, he was really super-confident and went sailing through writing several programs, whilst I felt I was struggling with the first one  My boss, a no-nonsense ex-British Steel manager, said to him 'right, lets test them!' He called up the first one and just brought down both hands on the keyboard, hitting many random keys simultaneously. The program crashed. He repeated this 'testing' process on all 5 programs the guy had written - same result!   Made me feel better - and mine ran perfectly first time!


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## Martin Canty (May 12, 2016)

Northerner said:


> I remember my first 'real' job in computer programming. I started at the same time as another guy who had a similar amount of knowledge. However, he was really super-confident and went sailing through writing several programs, whilst I felt I was struggling with the first one  My boss, a no-nonsense ex-British Steel manager, said to him 'right, lets test them!' He called up the first one and just brought down both hands on the keyboard, hitting many random keys simultaneously. The program crashed. He repeated this 'testing' process on all 5 programs the guy had written - same result!   Made me feel better - and mine ran perfectly first time!


Ah, the monkey test.... I was usually the first one my co-workers brought their programs to for testing.... Would usually fail!!!


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## Annette (May 12, 2016)

One job I had, including testing software updates before they were teleased to the rest of the company. I declared it to be my role to try and break it. If I couldn't break it, it was unlikely the users could. If I could break it, no matter how long it took me, a user would manage it. The IT people hated me describing my role as such, but the managers loved it. And I was proved right on several occasions...


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## Northerner (May 12, 2016)

Annette Anderson said:


> One job I had, including testing software updates before they were teleased to the rest of the company. I declared it to be my role to try and break it. If I couldn't break it, it was unlikely the users could. If I could break it, no matter how long it took me, a user would manage it. The IT people hated me describing my role as such, but the managers loved it. And I was proved right on several occasions...


I used to like 'breaking' the specifications given to me by designers, pointing out the problems and omissions, and why certain things couldn't work


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## KookyCat (May 12, 2016)

I love a good testing session with my use cases and diagrams, oh and the delightful pleasure of finding a bug and fixing it.....never knew why the techie folk hated me I was helping them, I'd find a fix and everything   They missed me when I'd gone and they were stuck with actual users who said enlightening things like "it doesn't work"


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## Ralph-YK (May 12, 2016)

I heard the problem with a lot of government projects is the specifications. Specifically "we want to sent less money in this area.


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## AlisonM (May 12, 2016)

Martin Canty said:


> Ah, the monkey test.... I was usually the first one my co-workers brought their programs to for testing.... Would usually fail!!!


Yup, me too I was good at spotting the errors, missing code and 'design features'. LOL, some of them would have been better replaced by monkeys.


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## Martin Canty (May 12, 2016)

AlisonM said:


> some of them would have been better replaced by monkeys


Hey, I resemble that remark....


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## muddlethru (May 16, 2016)

I haven't a clue what I'm doing half the time hence my handle muddlethru.


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## trophywench (May 16, 2016)

Grief! - we used to use a commercial firm to do all our software (bespoke stuff) and they always asked Birmingham branch to test it - a number of us had been designated 'key' users cos we could and sometimes did, test stuff to destruction - but of course it never actually destructed cos it wasn't released generally and as soon as we found a glitch, the others would try doing whatever too to make sure it really was a glitch, and we'd ring em and they'd rewrite that bit.

Only after we'd given the whole thing the nod would it be released into the wild!  Didn't take up that much time, made everyone's job easier day to day - and it was fun!


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