# Running out of bread choices :(



## pav (Jun 2, 2013)

Found out earlier in the year that white bread is one of the things that have suddenly started shooting up my BS, only used to eat it as a treat (a freshly baked crusty roll).

Noticed the other week that granary bread caused a problem, then had some wholemeal bread from a local bakery the other day and again BS went high.

Tried granary again today for lunch and check BS and its 14.3 after 4 hours of eating it. This is getting to be a great pain in finding bread I can eat. So far its now looks like its being limited to one bakeries bread that I can trust


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## Mark T (Jun 2, 2013)

Have you tried a lower carb linseed based bread such as burgen?


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## pav (Jun 2, 2013)

Did ask one bread shop about it and they have never heard of it, not sure where one can get it from.


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## Northerner (Jun 2, 2013)

As Mark suggests. Burgen soya and linseed bread is lower carb because of the soya flour, and the seeds help make it lower GI  And it is yummy!


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## Mark T (Jun 2, 2013)

pav said:


> Did ask one bread shop about it and they have never heard of it, not sure where one can get it from.


Tesco's, Sainsbury's, Asda, Ocado,...


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## pav (Jun 2, 2013)

I shop in ASDA, will have to have a harder look.


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## Mark T (Jun 2, 2013)

pav said:


> I shop in ASDA, will have to have a harder look.


Not every Asda carries exactly the same stock so it's not impossible it's not there - but this is what you are looking for: http://groceries.asda.com/asda-estore/search/searchcontainer.jsp?trailSize=1&searchString=burgan+linseed&domainName=Products&headerVersion=v1&_requestid=605885


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## spiritfree (Jun 2, 2013)

My local co-op also sells it. I think it's really nice bread.


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## Casper (Jun 2, 2013)

My local Iceland also stock it ?1 per loaf, freezes well and it very tasty!


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## yorksman (Jun 3, 2013)

Wholemeal doesn't have a tight legal definition in the UK and the stuff supermarkets sell is variable, one selling a loaf described as wholemeal but actually only with 6% wholemeal flour. See A Wholegrain of Truth.

You may have an artisan baker near you. The real bread campaign have a real bread finder where you can enter your postcode.

Lidl do two home bake bread mixes which contain german wholewheat and whole rye mixes. The whole wheat in one of them is type 1060 and the other, darker, is type 1600. Both of these packs prioduce two easy to bake loaves which don't spike me at all. However, my local artisan baker does about 4 loaves which taste better and one of them, the Sisu, a 100% rye loaf can be eaten in great quantities before it has much effect. I always have a selection in the freezer and packs of the Lidl bread mixes to hand as I tend to have sandwiches for lunch.


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## Steff (Jun 3, 2013)

make your own maybe


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## JohnCo (Jun 3, 2013)

Have more fat or protein filling in a sandwich? If you can`t find the bread you`re looking for!


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## pav (Jun 3, 2013)

Will be in town the next few days can look in Iceland as the likes of asda, Tesco are on retail parks.

Trying to keep the fat to fairly low as already have a spare tyre I am trying to loose. The higher protein plan works too well as I go low BS if I don't have any carbs with the protein.

Seams to be a big juggling hat in trying to get the two right, the past 5 months have been a very steep learning curve and that's after being diabetic for 13 years.

I do some times wonder if its better to be on insulin, rather than trying to get / guess the food I need for the gliclazide. If I reduce the gliclazide then my peaks become more often.

Its taken a fair amount of work to get the numbers as in the chart down from the mid 20's.


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## yorksman (Jun 3, 2013)

Steff said:


> make your own maybe



The Lidl bread mix, Country- Style Wheat Rye  (68%/24%) Wholemeal  uses type 1600 wholemeal wheat and is a darker tin baked bread looking something like this:







The other Wheat Rye mix is 71% type 1060 wholemeal wheat and 20% rye and is a lighter bread which can be baked free standing:






They both contain dried sourdough and each pack bakes two 750g loaves.


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## pav (Jun 3, 2013)

Looks an interesting option as there's a Lidl fairly close to me.


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## Taz (Jun 3, 2013)

Burgen bread is the best so glad I tryed it


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## Pattidevans (Jun 4, 2013)

Beware with Burgen, the Soya and Linseed is good and low carb, but they do other breads e.g Sunflower and Chia which are higher in carb.


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## itsallgood (Jun 4, 2013)

I use Burgen and it's very good. Be careful which one you choose though as there are more than one (in a big Sainsburys anyway) and the carbohydrate count varies by quite a lot between them. I go for soya and linseed but you can also get buckwheat and poppy seed which is higher carb but might still be low GI. Makes great toast as well!

Also Hovis do a multiseed loaf that has a low carb and high fibre content but I can't remember the name of it, sorry, I only buy that when there's no Burgen about.


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## AlisonM (Jun 4, 2013)

I have the Buckwheat and Poppy seed Burgen at the mo, it's really nice and doesn't seem to spike me. I prefer the Soya/Linseed one, but they didn't have it in store when I was shopping yesterday. Failing that, I'll usually go for any wholegrain loaf, never, never any kind of white.


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## itsallgood (Jun 4, 2013)

I only buy white bread when the wife fancies a sausage sandwich, then its usually a good quality ciabatta with ketchup. She loves that.


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## DeusXM (Jun 4, 2013)

This might just be my experience but I've found Burgen bread doesn't really offer any BG advantages over any other bread. I might be wrong but isn't it something like 14g of CHO per slice? Your average bread slice is only around 17-18g so it's not a massive difference overall. I'm sure nutritionally it's better for you than sliced white but it's one of those things I tend not to eat much of if I can help it.


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## itsallgood (Jun 4, 2013)

You're probably right Deusxm but from what I gather it releases the sugar slowly because of the seeds or something, giving it a low GI. Seems to work better than standard white for me, which gives me an alarming spike very quickly and seems to make me feel a bit drowsy as well.


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## LeeLee (Jun 4, 2013)

For me, it's more about portion control than the type of bread.  I go for one Warburtons brown or wholegrain Thin (20g carbs each), or half a Warburtons Pitta (15g carbs).  They both make a 'proper' sandwich, without using 2 slices of bread at 15-20g each..


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## Northerner (Jun 4, 2013)

DeusXM said:


> This might just be my experience but I've found Burgen bread doesn't really offer any BG advantages over any other bread. I might be wrong but isn't it something like 14g of CHO per slice? Your average bread slice is only around 17-18g so it's not a massive difference overall. I'm sure nutritionally it's better for you than sliced white but it's one of those things I tend not to eat much of if I can help it.



12g per slice, so 33% less carb  Definitely makes a difference for me over other types of bread, plus I actually prefer the taste and texture of it. It also lasts well.


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## pav (Jun 4, 2013)

At the moment I am eating Roberts wholemeal at 14.1g per slice at least it does not spike hard like white and other breads do. 

http://www.robertsbakery.co.uk/2010/07/medium-sliced-wholemeal-bread-800g/

Do some times have trouble eating a sarnie as some thing does not taste right, does not matter what bread it is that I have tried and can't put my finger on what puts me off eating it.


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## itsallgood (Jun 5, 2013)

pav said:


> At the moment I am eating Roberts wholemeal at 14.1g per slice at least it does not spike hard like white and other breads do.
> 
> http://www.robertsbakery.co.uk/2010/07/medium-sliced-wholemeal-bread-800g/
> 
> Do some times have trouble eating a sarnie as some thing does not taste right, does not matter what bread it is that I have tried and can't put my finger on what puts me off eating it.



The filling?


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## pav (Jun 5, 2013)

itsallgood said:


> The filling?



The morning breakfast is no fillings, 3 slices of toast with a utterly buttery type spread on them.

Lunch and tea fillings would be, turkey, chicken, ham, beef or beef spread, half a banana, fried bacon (no or very little oil added) or 2 eggs of some form, usually 2 slices of bread.

Tried the Burgen bread, soya and linseed version as that all my local Iceland had, and was the only shop I found to stock it. Not impressed with it toasted and reverted to wholemeal and banana (1 slice) did not eat the full slice as had the usual did not feel like eating it.


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## DeusXM (Jun 5, 2013)

How are your blood sugars with toast and banana? I'd find that absolutely impossible to manage.


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## AlisonM (Jun 5, 2013)

Just a suggestion, but try cutting out the banana, they're very high in sugar.


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## pav (Jun 5, 2013)

Two hours after the toast levels are around the 8.0, then before lunch around 2 pm normally around 4.3 around 12:30 its around 6.7.

Having half a banana levels 2 hours after are around the 7.0 mark, though recently noticed there's a new peaks around 7 pm (before late tea) and 10 pm, the biggest one around 12.0 since meds changed to 160mg of gliclazide

Found the 10 pm one is down to having 2 med baked spuds, will have to cut back to one (which is normally what I have, just was hungry). Working on the 7 pm one at the moment.

Time to start the food diary up as forgetting what I have eaten some days.


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## pav (Jun 5, 2013)

Tried the soya and linseed burgen bread again not sure I like it, though willing to try one of the other varieties, will see what ASDA stock next time I go there.


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## Northerner (Jun 5, 2013)

pav said:


> Tried the soya and linseed burgen bread again not sure I like it, though willing to try one of the other varieties, will see what ASDA stock next time I go there.



Surprised you don't like it, especially toasted, but I guess we are all different! I love it!


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## AlisonM (Jun 5, 2013)

Having experimented after my diagnosis I learned there are a good few foods that are guaranteed to send my numbers up. Starchy things like bread, potatoes, rice and pasta are among the worst, especially the spuds. Fruit like bananas and mango are the same and some cereals, such as cornflakes or Weetabix, are bad too. Cutting down on these things and replacing some with alternatives has helped me. Perhaps you might consider doing the same?

It may worth testing to see what specific foodstuffs do to you as not everyone reacts in quite the same way.


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## pav (Jun 5, 2013)

Cornflakes are a no no as they send my sugar sky high and are out of the house, any thing made with white floor is also a major problem.

Spuds did not appear to be a problem until I had the two baked ones, chip shop chips surprisingly don't cause a problem either (yet). 

Seen so many posts regarding bananas sending BS high, at the moment don't have a problem with them. I love grapes though not tested my BS with them yet as they are loaded with sugar. Will test them soon as they have only recently started to become affordable.


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## Northerner (Jun 5, 2013)

Bananas seem remarkably inert as far as I am concerned. For example, I can have 2 boiled eggs and two slices of burgen with 6 units of insulin one day and a banana sandwich with the same two slices of burgen the next, with the same 6 units and no difference in blood sugar levels. Defies logic, since a banana is about a gram of carbs per centimetre, and the riper, the higher the GI


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## everydayupsanddowns (Jun 6, 2013)

Northerner said:


> Bananas seem remarkably inert as far as I am concerned. For example, I can have 2 boiled eggs and two slices of burgen with 6 units of insulin one day and a banana sandwich with the same two slices of burgen the next, with the same 6 units and no difference in blood sugar levels. Defies logic, since a banana is about a gram of carbs per centimetre, and the riper, the higher the GI



And yet for some of us... they are like BG rocketfuel!


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## yorksman (Jun 6, 2013)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> And yet for some of us... they are like BG rocketfuel!



The response curves for fruits are interesting. Tropical fruits peak earlier than a glucose drink but don't go as high. This is a set of response curves for healthy Nigerians:








Bananas are the bottom curve, glucose the top curve and the the other two are pineapple and paw paw.

The nutritional value for the fruits is given as:






A similar set of data but wider in scope and testing specifically Type 2 diabetics can be seen in Glycaemic Response to some Commonly Eaten Fruits in Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus

I read a very useful tip for type 2 diabetics when it comes to fruits, choose more northerly fruits. The further south one goes, the higher the load. Generally, cherries, apples, pears, plums, berries etc are ok. Things like oranges, grapes etc are to be treated with caution and tropics fruits are to be handled with great care.


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## itsallgood (Jun 6, 2013)

On the bananas thing, I always try to get/eat only green bananas if possible. Don't know if this really helps BGs but they definitely taste much less sweet, which I prefer. To my mind, the total 'badness' of a banana is in it from the start to when it goes brown, so it shouldn't make any difference I guess (unless anyone knows better?).


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## AlisonM (Jun 6, 2013)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> And yet for some of us... they are like BG rocketfuel!



They're one of two things I reserve for persistent hypos. Along with spuds they are guaranteed to send my bloods into the stratosphere.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Jun 6, 2013)

itsallgood said:


> On the bananas thing, I always try to get/eat only green bananas if possible. Don't know if this really helps BGs but they definitely taste much less sweet, which I prefer. To my mind, the total 'badness' of a banana is in it from the start to when it goes brown, so it shouldn't make any difference I guess (unless anyone knows better?).



I'm sure I read something somewhere about the structure of a banana changing when it ripened and something in them breaking down/altering allowing the carbs in a ripe one to be accessed much more rapidly than in an unripe one.

May have to google it to see what it actually was!


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## everydayupsanddowns (Jun 6, 2013)

How about this...



> *Glycemic Index for Bananas*
> The glycemic index (GI) of bananas varies depending upon how ripe the bananas are. This is because a lot of the carbohydrate in green bananas is in the form of a kind of resistant starch which we lack the enzyme to digest. As the fruit ripens, the starch is converted into readily available sugars.
> 
> One study of "under-ripe" bananas came up with a glycemic index of 30. One of "slightly under-ripe bananas" that were "yellow with green sections" produced a GI of 42, while another of "over-ripe" bananas was 52. However, most studies of bananas haven't specified the ripeness, and have come up with GIs ranging from 46 to 70. An average of 52 is usually assigned to bananas.


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## itsallgood (Jun 6, 2013)

That's very interesting eduad, I think this means that a green banana would be partly 'invisible' to the gut as it can't be broken down, unless it _can _be broken down but just takes longer, in which case you get all the sugar eventually. So the only benefit then would be a smaller BG spike.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Jun 6, 2013)

itsallgood said:


> That's very interesting eduad, I think this means that a green banana would be partly 'invisible' to the gut as it can't be broken down, unless it _can _be broken down but just takes longer, in which case you get all the sugar eventually. So the only benefit then would be a smaller BG spike.



The part about 'lack the enzyme to digest' suggests to me that some of the total carbs of a fully ripe banana would be inaccessible to us when the same banana was less ripe.


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## pav (Jun 6, 2013)

I have had one of those nights of what do I want to eat and got nowhere fast. In the end had 2 beef burgers and 2 eggs and 1 ryvita, not very thrilling and possibly the first time I have had burgers in a year.

Two hours later and BS is 4.6 (yikes) plenty of time left before bed time  I did not bother with carbs as BS before tea was 11.7 and did not feel like bread.

Just had a banana as a snack, and will be able to see if bananas do spike me. Looks like I will be needing a late snack or sweat to tied me over through the night.


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## pav (Jun 6, 2013)

2 hours after the banana snack, BS has gone from 4.6 to 4.4, did not test for any spikes in-between, looks like bananas are ok for me to eat.


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## pav (Jun 9, 2013)

Tried granary for the last time BS gone high again.  

Looked in ASDA found my local did 2 versions the Soya at ?0-85 and the poppy at ?1-40, found most of the poppy ones were very close to the BB date, did manage to find one with a reasonable date.

I prefer the poppy version over the soya one, though carbs are a fair bit higher than the soya one. Will give it a try over the week, though waiting for BS to come back down again from the granary bread.

Also out is steak and kidney pie had half a one from the chippy and high again. It appears I am getting more sensitive to this white floor problem than I thought. A couple of weeks ago when I tried one for a change it was ok. 

Now looks like a total ban (or near as possible) on foods containing white floor.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Jun 9, 2013)

pav said:


> Also out is steak and kidney pie had half a one from the chippy and high again. It appears I am getting more sensitive to this white floor problem than I thought. A couple of weeks ago when I tried one for a change it was ok.
> 
> Now looks like a total ban (or near as possible) on foods containing white floor.



Pav, forgive the silly question... But what accompanied the pie from the chippy? A standard pukka pie is probably 40g CHO or thereabouts, but the chips (depending on how many you had) could easily be twice, three times or five times that!


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## pav (Jun 9, 2013)

It was chips from the chippy, I have been monitoring when I have chips to see if there's any difference and until the 1/2 pie was added BS did not spike.

Even cut out the curry sauce  to reduce any problems, eating less chips as they don't taste like a proper chip should be like and a lot end up in the bin.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Jun 9, 2013)

pav said:


> It was chips from the chippy, I have been monitoring when I have chips to see if there's any difference and until the 1/2 pie was added BS did not spike.
> 
> Even cut out the curry sauce  to reduce any problems, eating less chips as they don't taste like a proper chip should be like and a lot end up in the bin.



I know my situation (T1 on insulin) is very different, but since the fat in chips slows down the absorption of the carbs I would expect the full rise of a meal from the chips not to be apparent until several hours after eating - probably more like 3 or 4. It's certainly something we eat every now and then, but its always a bit of a nightmare to deal with as its usually a meal with a massive carb load and tricky absorption profile


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## Mark T (Jun 9, 2013)

It's almost the case that they need an affordable constant blood glucose testing mechanism for diabetics.  Should you test one hour, two hour or even more.

When you are on a limited test strip allowance it's difficult to justify doing multiple testing just to find the peak.  The few times I've saved up a few extra tests I've found that some food's don't spike me till anything between 4 to 6 hours later (especially when combined with alcohol).


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## Sienna (Jun 10, 2013)

LeeLee said:


> For me, it's more about portion control than the type of bread.  ..



What about making the slices thinner?  They used to sell medium sliced and even thin-sliced loaves but I haven't seen them for ages.
If you toast the bread lightly it'll hold together so you can slice flat-ways like filleting a fish.  Haha! half the carbs    Half as filling though :-(


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