# Proof of ID may be needed for NHS care, says health chief



## Northerner (Nov 22, 2016)

Patients could have to show proof of identity to get some NHS care, the senior civil servant at the Department of Health has said.

Chris Wormald told a Commons committee it was a controversial move but already happened in some NHS trusts.

The NHS has "a lot further to go" in reclaiming money for treating foreign visitors, he said.

Committee chair Meg Hillier expressed concern that some British residents may not possess passports or other ID.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38060432


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## grovesy (Nov 22, 2016)

Intresting when I first woke up for the day someone was saying on Sky news, that older people might not have either a driving licence or passport. As we don't have identity cards, this is going to end up costing more or nearly as much as it recoups.


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## Northerner (Nov 22, 2016)

grovesy said:


> Intresting when I first woke up for the day someone was saying on Sky news, that older people might not have either a driving licence or passport. As we don't have identity cards, this is going to end up costing more or nearly as much as it recoups.


I don't have a driving license, and I only renewed my passport a couple of years ago after a gap of several years. More bureaucracy!  I've heard varying reports of how much this actually costs us, and how much it would cost to administer - I think it's a bit of a distraction from the REAL problems the NHS is facing


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## Vicsetter (Nov 22, 2016)

Or another ploy to introduce identity cards!


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## Northerner (Nov 22, 2016)

Vicsetter said:


> Or another ploy to introduce identity cards!


My stepmother is Dutch and she was astounded to hear that we don't have such a thing over here! We have a lot in common with the Dutch, but they don't seem to have our resistance to impositions on our personal freedoms - she also believes that those who home-school their children should be sent to prison! 

There are so many assumptions made these days - it's assumed that most people have a driver's license, a passport, a smartphone, broadband, access to the interweb and computer literacy, current accounts etc. etc. Fair enough, there may be a significant majority of people who have, but there's a lot who don't!


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## grovesy (Nov 22, 2016)

Northerner said:


> I don't have a driving license, and I only renewed my passport a couple of years ago after a gap of several years. More bureaucracy!  I've heard varying reports of how much this actually costs us, and how much it would cost to administer - I think it's a bit of a distraction from the REAL problems the NHS is facing


I heard them saying you needed to forms, Passport is not cheap. 
It could be a distraction or attempt to bury something else.


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## grovesy (Nov 22, 2016)

Northerner said:


> My stepmother is Dutch and she was astounded to hear that we don't have such a thing over here! We have a lot in common with the Dutch, but they don't seem to have our resistance to impositions on our personal freedoms - she also believes that those who home-school their children should be sent to prison!
> 
> There are so many assumptions made these days - it's assumed that most people have a driver's license, a passport, a smartphone, broadband, access to the interweb and computer literacy, current accounts etc. etc. Fair enough, there may be a significant majority of people who have, but there's a lot who don't!


I have no personal objection to ID card.
Your right about assumptions about all those things! just seen a man from environmental agency say on the News to find out if you at flood risk look on our website! That is no good if you have no internet or your power is off.


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## Sally71 (Nov 22, 2016)

I don't see what the fuss is about ID cards either, if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to hide.  It would solve the problem for people who don't have passports and driving licences!  So much data about us is kept on computers these days anyway that I don't see the difference


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## KateR (Nov 22, 2016)

My passport has just gone out of date and I don't intend renewing it. I wonder if it would be acceptable?


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## Northerner (Nov 22, 2016)

KateR said:


> My passport has just gone out of date and I don't intend renewing it. I wonder if it would be acceptable?


I seem to remember I could still use my passport for a couple of years after it expired for certain things, like internal flights or identification at the post office to collect parcels etc. They usually specify the time limit on whatever is asking to see it


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## KateR (Nov 22, 2016)

Northerner said:


> I seem to remember I could still use my passport for a couple of years after it expired for certain things, like internal flights or identification at the post office to collect parcels etc. They usually specify the time limit on whatever is asking to see it



Thanks for that Alan.


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## grovesy (Nov 22, 2016)

There is a Professor on now, on the Victoria Derbyshire saying can use a utility bill, but again not everyone has utility bill and I thought lots of utilities were paperless.


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## Ljc (Nov 22, 2016)

I'm one of those who don't have the ID they want. The only photo I'd I have now is my bus pass  .  I thought Id cards would be a good idea for people like me.


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## MikeTurin (Nov 22, 2016)

Northerner said:


> My stepmother is Dutch and she was astounded to hear that we don't have such a thing over here! We have a lot in common with the Dutch, but they don't seem to have our resistance to impositions on our personal freedoms - she also believes that those who home-school their children should be sent to prison!


I don't understand the ID card problem too. The problem I'm seeing here in Italy is that due some brain damaged privacy law or some such al lot of photocopies of ID cards are done for everything and the sensible thing to do is adopt a crypto keycard to sign documents.
About home schooling I see a problem that is to control that the home schooling is real and and not a cover for juvenile work or no schooling at all.


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## trophywench (Nov 22, 2016)

ID cards - anyone retired can get a bus pass without too much prob and they need identity before you get the first, surely the fact that you are in receipt of a State Pension proves it if you take a bank statement ?  You'd not have online only accounts unless you had internet access in the first place.  Also it would be unusual surely to be ill enough for hospital all of a sudden at age 80 before anyone had admissible records of you?  I mean both our local hospitals have their own prior records of both of us fairly recently anyway.  If folk started out as foreign nationals then they WILL have passports unless they are either illegal immigrants or pukka refugees in which latter case, the authorities would have records anyway.  If they are recent immigrants eg Poles then it really is up to them to be able to prove it and if thems the rules here, thems the rules, plus if foreign immigrants resident here have later imported elderly parents - then again it's up to them.  You wouldn't get treatment in either eg a French, Spanish or Portuguese hospital without ID so why expect it here?

I can't see how it could possibly adversely affect folk born here whatever their ethnic background - they all have birth certificates ! - as do the ancient British, as there's no-one now alive who wouldn't be Registered - so no flippin prob.


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## AlisonM (Nov 22, 2016)

I carried an ID card for a while as a child* and would have no problem doing so again so long as that's all it is.

The last time the ID card wheeze came up, it fell down because it was going to include all sorts of other stuff I don't want to be that easily accessible, such as medical records, NI data, driving licence, etc., etc., etc. I wouldn't want all my private info held in one place when HMG in all it's forms is incapable protecting that data to any great degree.

* We were living in Berlin and I crossed Checkpoint Charlie every day for 6 months to get to and from school. The Cold War was such fun for a 9 year old . I needed the card as ID as I didn't have my own passport then, I travelled on my mother's passport till I was 10.

ETA: I might mind showing ID to get treatment, I'm not sure, got to think about it.


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## trophywench (Nov 22, 2016)

I do agree about all the extra info cos they are indeed pretty useless - but a basic ID card I've never ever seen as a problem.  And still don't.  They'd really have to put your NHS number on it for it to work for health though - but there again not all NHS staff can access all the health info about you anyway, depends on Grade and position and where exactly you happen to work - so it's pretty safe if I turn up in Southampton, get a crack on the head and wake up only speaking a different language - that has been known to happen more than once, hasn't it !


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## Ralph-YK (Nov 22, 2016)

What is an id. Practically I mean. And how do you prove what it is to get it put on the card in the first place.  What do we do with all the people whose card is wrong (because officialdom has messed it up).


Sally71 said:


> I don't see what the fuss is about ID cards either, if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to hide.


The only reason for id cards is for others to demand to know our ID, control us, particularly officialdom. There is no good reason for them to know it. That's why they keep coming up with stupid excuses for them.
Our id is no one else's business.


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## Ralph-YK (Nov 22, 2016)

trophywench said:


> They'd really have to put your NHS number on it for it to work for health though


I didn't know such a thing existed until maybe 2 and half years ago (even though I'd been in hospital several times).  It was on a letter I got from a hospital.


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## pav (Nov 22, 2016)

With the paperless billing it's, getting harder to show identity as printing off an on line bill is not acceptable by some as they want to see a paper bill sent out by the company. If I had not got a passport a couple of years ago, I would be struggling to show id. Even had to attend an interview to get the passport and they knew more about myself than I did.


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## grovesy (Nov 23, 2016)

Ralph-YK said:


> I didn't know such a thing existed until maybe 2 and half years ago (even though I'd been in hospital several times).  It was on a letter I got from a hospital.


They are issued at birth.
My original one was a mix of letters and numbers, I number of years ago they changed them to long numerical. I had my original card till I had to register with new doctor when I moved. It was required asked for! Though when applying for a Pre payment prescription, there system would recognise if I put the old number !


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## mikeyB (Nov 23, 2016)

All you guys without passports, it looks like little England will want to impose a hard border if Scotland becomes independent and remains in the EU. We'd have to look out for health tourists fleeing the wreck of NHS England.


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## FergusC (Nov 23, 2016)

grovesy said:


> Intresting when I first woke up for the day someone was saying on Sky news, that older people might not have either a driving licence or passport. As we don't have identity cards, this is going to end up costing more or nearly as much as it recoups.


Sorry to be late on this one!
I run "Silver Surfers" @ local library and so end up sorting out "Blue Badge" applications and School place applications and the problems it causes when applicants don't have email addresses and or mobile phones to set them up!


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## grovesy (Nov 23, 2016)

FergusC said:


> Sorry to be late on this one!
> I run "Silver Surfers" @ local library and so end up sorting out "Blue Badge" applications and School place applications and the problems it causes when applicants don't have email addresses and or mobile phones to set them up![/
> My friend who has just moved house could not get Sky call centre in India yesterday to understand she had no internet, they were trying to  get them to arrange installation of TV and Internet.


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## trophywench (Nov 23, 2016)

Err, school places arranged by silver surfers??  I may well be firmly in the latter category - but I am FAR FAR too ancient to be a parent needing to arrange a school place !!  Admittedly because of circs, some grandchildren do land up residing with their grandparents but hell - the oldies better get internet equipped and savvy pdq if that's the case - kids can't even access homework without it these days, let alone submit it.


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## Sally71 (Nov 23, 2016)

trophywench said:


> Err, school places arranged by silver surfers??  I may well be firmly in the latter category - but I am FAR FAR too ancient to be a parent needing to arrange a school place !!  Admittedly because of circs, some grandchildren do land up residing with their grandparents but hell - the oldies better get internet equipped and savvy pdq if that's the case - kids can't even access homework without it these days, let alone submit it.


They are allowed to use the computers at school to do homework if they don't have Internet access at home - presumably this means they have to miss a break time though!


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## pav (Nov 23, 2016)

Just had a look at getting a replacement NHS crd as lost mine many years ago, and in England they are no longer issued. So another possible form of ID has gone, copied from the NHS web site.

Note: medical cards are no longer issued in England. If you still have one it may have an old-style NHS Number made-up of both letters and numbers. However, in recent years this has been replaced for all patients with an NHS Number made containing only numbers (as shown in the example).


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## grovesy (Nov 23, 2016)

pav said:


> Just had a look at getting a replacement NHS crd as lost mine many years ago, and in England they are no longer issued. So another possible form of ID has gone, copied from the NHS web site.
> 
> Note: medical cards are no longer issued in England. If you still have one it may have an old-style NHS Number made-up of both letters and numbers. However, in recent years this has been replaced for all patients with an NHS Number made containing only numbers (as shown in the example).


It is possibly 10 years since I last applied for prescription prepayment certificate.


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## FergusC (Nov 23, 2016)

trophywench said:


> Err, school places arranged by silver surfers??  I may well be firmly in the latter category - but I am FAR FAR too ancient to be a parent needing to arrange a school place !!


Due to the poor level of support to clients by our local authority, we find that we find that we end up helping lots of different groups with online forms. (Age UK & CAB have little time to give support, we were part of Age UK until they lost the funding for ' surfers))


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## trophywench (Nov 23, 2016)

Our younger daughter usually brings such things here and has regularly said things like 'This is totally different now to how it was two years ago when I had to do the last one - and I have no idea what they want 'here' or why!'  Think they do it as a trap so you don't get giving the 'right' reasons you want your youngest to go to the school at the end of the road where the next one goes - they do seriously expect single mothers to be able to deliver and collect 2 kids not old enough to go on their own, to schools miles distant from each other and meanwhile the one that's at senior school 3 buses away has to take herself and no she can't have a bus pass cos you live 50 yards too close ... etc.

It is a b nightmare that none of us ever had to have with our own kids or anything else.


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## mikeyB (Nov 24, 2016)

You are right TW. Just living is more complicated than it ever used to be. Never mind, me and thee probably only have another 20 years max to worry about it


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## macabee (Nov 24, 2016)

Whilst a senior civil servant at the Department of Health has said, that a passport is a valid ID they did not stipulate a currently valid passport is required, just because a passport is out of date I would still consider it to be valid as a form of ID. 

Although not everyone has a driving licence, passport, utility bill [as most utility companies try to get us to go paperless] I should think that everyone would be in receipt of a council tax letter which is proof of abode, for us pensioners the bus pass does identify the holder.


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