# Carb counting - what did I do wrong?



## Sprogladite (Feb 14, 2017)

Tonight I attempted carb counting for the first time ever. And I'm now so frustrated and upset I'm literally sitting here crying.

I've been T1 for nearly 23 years and have never received proper advice for the implications of eating carbs. It was a minor miracle I discovered this on my own, mostly because I am sick of my sugars being out of control and don't know where else to turn other than the Internet.

Today I read a link kindly provided by someone here on the forum. It all made sense, I understand the theory behind it all, so I figured I'd give it a try and see what happened.

Before eating, my sugar level was 13.1. So, aiming for a sugar level of 7, I did 2 units as a correction dose, combined with 8 units for my main meal (spag bol). I had 200g of cooked pasta - 6 units. Didn't count the meat, with 2 units for a glass of Ribena, which I used "squash" values from the carbs and cals app for.

So my dose was:

2 units - correction
6 units - spaghetti
2 units - ribena

2 hours after eating my sugar level is 18.9!!! What am I doing wrong? I feel so upset it just seems no matter how hard I try nothing works!!


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## Robin (Feb 14, 2017)

I think what may be happening is that the carbs you ate may have arrived as glucose in your bloodstream before the insulin had got there to mop them up. That was quite a high amount of the sort of carb that gets broken down into glucose really quickly. See where you are after four hours. You've still probably got half your insulin dose on board still working at the moment. Next time, if you're going to have the same meal (and you've come down to the levels you're looking for in a couple of hours time ) try giving your insulin dose a bit earlier, so the insulin has time to get working.
Don't expect to get it all right immediately! I know it's frustrating, but it's just something that needs practice.


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## Sprogladite (Feb 14, 2017)

Thanks for your reply @Robin. You are right, I know it's unrealistic to expect instant results but I think it being so high just shocked me. I will keep at it and see how adjusting injection times works for me. I think I've just got to the end of my rope with it all, I really feel like I'm fighting a losing battle at the moment


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## Robin (Feb 14, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Thanks for your reply @Robin. You are right, I know it's unrealistic to expect instant results but I think it being so high just shocked me. I will keep at it and see how adjusting injection times works for me. I think I've just got to the end of my rope with it all, I really feel like I'm fighting a losing battle at the moment


If you find you're consistently high after four hours, then adjusting your insulin ratio may be necessary. Keep at it!


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## Lucy Honeychurch (Feb 14, 2017)

My novorapid ratio is higher than 1/10, think its 1.5/10 and my accu-check meter is set at that when I put my carbs in. Sorry you feel so upset, it took me a while to get used to it. You will get there.


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## SB2015 (Feb 14, 2017)

Hi Sprogladite

What ratio are you using for your carbs.  These are different for different people so as Robin has suggested you may need to gradually tweak these until you find what suits you.  It takes time to get it right so don't be disheartened if it does not work at the start.

Also if you start with higher levels the insulin can find it hard to do it's job.  So once you have got your BG levels lower you may find that you need to adjust your ratios again.  It really is worth the effort and eventually becomes a lot easier to deal with, so stick at it.


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## Sprogladite (Feb 14, 2017)

Thanks @Lucy Honeychurch - how did you figure out your ratio was more than 1/10?


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## Sprogladite (Feb 14, 2017)

SB2015 said:


> Hi Sprogladite
> 
> What ratio are you using for your carbs.  These are different for different people so as Robin has suggested you may need to gradually tweak these until you find what suits you.  It takes time to get it right so don't be disheartened if it does not work at the start.
> 
> Also if you start with higher levels the insulin can find it hard to do it's job.  So once you have got your BG levels lower you may find that you need to adjust your ratios again.  It really is worth the effort and eventually becomes a lot easier to deal with, so stick at it.



I used the standard 1/10 ratio as I figured I'd go from there. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if mine was higher than that, I seem to have an uncanny ability to absorb a ton of insulin with minimal effect when I'm high. It's just got to the point where I've got the beginning stages of retinopathy and have developed neuropathy pain in my feet and I am scared. It feels like I'm standing in a room full of medical professionals shouting "HELP ME" and nobody is listening. It would be fine if I knew what I was doing...but I don't. The fiddling I've done over the years has meant I've developed a system where I just swing from one end of the scale to the other, high to low back to high again. It's getting me nowhere!


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## trophywench (Feb 14, 2017)

Hi Sprog - have to say - for 100g carb I'd need 10u of Novorapid (1u per 10g carb) so I'd have needed 20u just for the spag bol, without adding Ribena.  But I simply couldn't eat that amount of carb at one meal, or even in a whole day.  It's been observed by various people that when they need much more than 7u in one go, it doesn't absorb so well so they reckon they're better off splitting that jab into at least 2 if not 3 separate jabs, one after the other in different places.  (To me that's another reason - for me I mean! - just not to eat that much carb at one go, then.)

Are you absolutely certain your carb ratio is as high as 1u to every 33g ?  Or for eg a sandwich made with 2 slices of medium sliced, you only need 1u of insulin?


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## Lucy Honeychurch (Feb 14, 2017)

My dietician and DSN set my meter as my levels were too high. I have an accu check meter which I test on, I put my carbs in then it suggests a bolus: ie; 40g carbs = 6 units of novorapid.


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## Sprogladite (Feb 14, 2017)

trophywench said:


> Hi Sprog - have to say - for 100g carb I'd need 10u of Novorapid (1u per 10g carb) so I'd have needed 20u just for the spag bol, without adding Ribena.  But I simply couldn't eat that amount of carb at one meal, or even in a whole day.  It's been observed by various people that when they need much more than 7u in one go, it doesn't absorb so well so they reckon they're better off splitting that jab into at least 2 if not 3 separate jabs, one after the other in different places.  (To me that's another reason - for me I mean! - just not to eat that much carb at one go, then.)
> 
> Are you absolutely certain your carb ratio is as high as 1u to every 33g ?  Or for eg a sandwich made with 2 slices of medium sliced, you only need 1u of insulin?



Lol I'm not certain of anything at this point, that's why I don't know if I've done something wrong!

I used the table on the Bertie online website - which says 100g of cooked pasta has a CHO of 30g; I had 200g so that's 60g, equating to 6 units?


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## Ginny03 (Feb 14, 2017)

You mentioned spagbol and counting the pasta, but you didn't mention the sauce. (If this is because you just had the meat with no sauce, ignore me!) Most store bought sauces are packed with sugar and even home made ones have a fair bit because of the tomatoes, so if its there it needs to be counted. Stick with it - it can take a while to get your ratios right, but it'll be well worth the effort when you do.


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## Sprogladite (Feb 14, 2017)

I should probably also confess my maths is absolutely shocking so if I've been an idiot please feel free to point that out lol


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## Sprogladite (Feb 14, 2017)

Ginny03 said:


> You mentioned spagbol and counting the pasta, but you didn't mention the sauce. (If this is because you just had the meat with no sauce, ignore me!) Most store bought sauces are packed with sugar and even home made ones have a fair bit because of the tomatoes, so if its there it needs to be counted. Stick with it - it can take a while to get your ratios right, but it'll be well worth the effort when you do.



There was a sauce, but it was home made. So how would I work out how much insulin I need just for the sauce? By how much pasatta is used? :/


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## Ginny03 (Feb 14, 2017)

If pasatta is the tomatoes, then yes - you'd need to roughly work out how many carbs were in the amount you used - I kept a calculator in the kitchen!


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## trophywench (Feb 14, 2017)

Just thought - was it 80g weight of spag before you cooked it?  Raw spag is 73g carb for 100g weight so 80g raw weight  = 60g carb.

To establish your carb ratio, wait till there's no fast acting hanging round (so at least 4 hours, preferably longer 4.5 or 5ish hours, after your last jab of it) and your BG is as near 'normal' (over 4 and under 8 - above 8 and you can't do this because you'd need a correction as well which could skew the result) as poss, then eat an exact amount of carbs, and try a dose of 1u to each 10g.   By 4 hours later has your BG come back to the same as your pre-meal figure?  If it's higher than pre meal you need more insulin, if it's lower, you need less.  Repeat as many times as you need to till it's near enough right.  That then gives you your carb ratio for that time of day.

If your whole yo-yo problem is only caused by incorrect carb ratio(s) then your problem's solved.

However - a lot of the time people's basal insulin doses need looking at - and to my mind I'd rather get the basal right first - after all, it's the BASIS - and with a firm base, you can build a decent building, can't you?  So have a read of this, and spend the next week or so having a go at this first, I should.   http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/info/?page_id=120


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## Sprogladite (Feb 14, 2017)

trophywench said:


> Just thought - was it 80g weight of spag before you cooked it?  Raw spag is 73g carb for 100g weight so 80g raw weight  = 60g carb.
> 
> To establish your carb ratio, wait till there's no fast acting hanging round (so at least 4 hours, preferably longer 4.5 or 5ish hours, after your last jab of it) and your BG is as near 'normal' (over 4 and under 8 - above 8 and you can't do this because you'd need a correction as well which could skew the result) as poss, then eat an exact amount of carbs, and try a dose of 1u to each 10g.   By 4 hours later has your BG come back to the same as your pre-meal figure?  If it's higher than pre meal you need more insulin, if it's lower, you need less.  Repeat as many times as you need to till it's near enough right.  That then gives you your carb ratio for that time of day.
> 
> ...



Honestly I don't know what the weight of it was before it was cooked - was cooking for the family so it wasn't just my portion in there. 

Thank you that is really helpful. My basal dose probably does need looking at, the issue I am having with my care team has been ongoing and it's been well over 2 years now that I haven't see an actual endocrinologist. Can you believe at the last appointment I had the doctor left early because he "forgot" I was there (I had the last appointment of the day)...I mean, really? Complained til I went blue in the face and now have given up! Starting carb counting seems like a good time to start fighting this again. At the very least for a referral to a carb counting course so I'm not just fishing in the dark and bugging you guys! Lol


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## trophywench (Feb 14, 2017)

I just walked in my kitchen, got the packet of spag out of the cupboard and read what it said on the back - must admit I'd never dream of using the interwebnet, when the packet's already in my hand - and anyway - they hadn't invented the internet yet when I first started cooking pasta for our dinner! LOL  There are a few things I remember from the leaflet I was given in 1972 like 7 chips = 10g and one egg-sized spud = 10g - but sadly pasta wasn't one of Kidderminster General's staples at the time.  Neither did they define the size of the spud the chips were cut from, nor who laid the egg - a quail or an ostrich?  LOL  Consequently - I've learned to always just take my carb info from wherever I can get it easiest.


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## Sprogladite (Feb 14, 2017)

I've just retested sugar and I'm down to 16.7. Should I start thinking about doing a corrective dose?


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## trophywench (Feb 14, 2017)

Well I'm cooking for husband and I - so I start off with approx. 150g ish dry weight and when it's cooked I have about a third and he has two thirds - never bothered weighing it cooked ever!


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## trophywench (Feb 14, 2017)

Try having half the correction dose you'd normally have.  I think you are correcting too aggressively as well as the ratios etc, and it all becomes a vicious circle.

You're better off getting stable BGS and it doesn't matter if they are stable at 8 or 9 or whatever to begin with.  Once you've successfully stopped the see-saw - then you can gradually reduce that 8 or whatever it happens to be.

Frustrating at times, cos you want it quick, but slow but sure gets you there quicker in the end in this case.  I know it myself - cos I was exactly where you are now about 15 years ago - and so bloody frustrated not getting any sense or help out of the NHS I started Googling .......  LOL


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## Sprogladite (Feb 14, 2017)

trophywench said:


> Try having half the correction dose you'd normally have.  I think you are correcting too aggressively as well as the ratios etc, and it all becomes a vicious circle.
> 
> You're better off getting stable BGS and it doesn't matter if they are stable at 8 or 9 or whatever to begin with.  Once you've successfully stopped the see-saw - then you can gradually reduce that 8 or whatever it happens to be.
> 
> Frustrating at times, cos you want it quick, but slow but sure gets you there quicker in the end in this case.  I know it myself - cos I was exactly where you are now about 15 years ago - and so bloody frustrated not getting any sense or help out of the NHS I started Googling .......  LOL



That's EXACTLY what's going on with me right now...I am so worried about being too high for too long now that I'm showing actual signs of damage instead of just hearing about them constantly that I'm doing everything in my power to correct highs when I see them. And yes I'm just getting frustrated and angry with it all, especially when I have non diabetics telling me "just don't eat sweets! And then you'll be ok!" Really gets my goat, I know they have good intentions but quite frankly I still want to punch them LOL


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## trophywench (Feb 15, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> That's EXACTLY what's going on with me right now...I am so worried about being too high for too long now that I'm showing actual signs of damage instead of just hearing about them constantly that I'm doing everything in my power to correct highs when I see them. And yes I'm just getting frustrated and angry with it all, especially when I have non diabetics telling me "just don't eat sweets! And then you'll be ok!" Really gets my goat, I know they have good intentions but quite frankly I still want to punch them LOL



I was standing in Tescos one day rattling a bucket for DUK when one pillock came out with that.  Had it been my bucket and we didn't have all the DUK adverts plastered about our persons as well as the bucket, I'd have quite happily swung it straight at the side of his head.

You know, most people I wouldn't wish diabetes on.  However, sometimes you just happen to come across somebody ..... LOL


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## Sprogladite (Feb 15, 2017)

trophywench said:


> I was standing in Tescos one day rattling a bucket for DUK when one pillock came out with that.  Had it been my bucket and we didn't have all the DUK adverts plastered about our persons as well as the bucket, I'd have quite happily swung it straight at the side of his head.
> 
> You know, most people I wouldn't wish diabetes on.  However, sometimes you just happen to come across somebody ..... LOL



Gosh id be dangerous with a bucket lol. Especially when I dignify their stupid comment with a response along the lines of "no it doesn't work like that, it's much more complicated" and then they say "oh, well my aunty/grandma/cousin does that and it works for them"

Like seriously. Those people can usually tell they need to remove themselves from my vicinity IMMEDIATELY lol!


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## KookyCat (Feb 15, 2017)

Hi Sprogladite
Don't be hard on yourself, that was a tricky meal to start carb counting with.  My best advice for practicing carb counting and testing ratios is to go simple, really simple.  I used M&S ready meals when I was doing it mostly because I couldn't use my right arm or stand for very long so I couldn't really slave over a hot stove, but the principle is sound (what an excuse ).  At this moment you don't know your ratios so that's one unknown so you want to rule out as many of the other unknowns as possible.  By simple I mean stuff you can weigh and be almost certain about the carb value (the wet weight and dry weight of pasta got me several times), don't guess, weigh is my mantra for the first stages.  It's overwhelming enough without adding in the extra layer of horror around estimating skills (mine were shocking, they're now pretty good ).  So boring old chicken, a baked spud and some veg, or more exciting flavours but with controlled amount of carb.

Start on one unit of insulin to 10 grams of carbohydrate and then see where that gets you.  Don't panic on the correction front, think of this as an experiment, correcting with a hair trigger will stop you from getting where you need to be.  In fact unless you're going extremely high I wouldn't correct at all for the first week.  You need to see how your body is reacting to the insulin and the food, but that has to be your choice.   Now this is the hard bit, and even though I'm saying it like it's easy believe me when I say I really understand it isn't, distance yourself from the emotion of the blood sugar levels, if you feel the panic about a double figure, breathe and tell yourself it's OK.  I know your brain knows it's not OK and you want it to be lower, but the way to get that is control and you'll get it if you can chew on that leather strap and take the pain for a little while.  Consider this a totally fresh start, the most valuable thing you can do is to understand how your body works with insulin, because in my experience that's the key to it all.  Getting into a cycle of correction is easy to do, but really hard to get out of I know, but if you can convince your brain to stop reacting so quickly you'll be able to see a pattern, and when you can see the patterns you can find an action that will work.  You can always post readings here and we'll help you interpret and adjust, there's a lot of experience here and we're always happy to help . 

Now for my cheerleader bit (imagine I have pom-poms ).  After 23 years of poor advice, you're here, feeling vulnerable and frustrated, the important bit if that is "you're here" putting yourself on the line and giving it a whirl.  That's mettle if ever I saw it.  Don't let that little shrivelled pancreas get the better of you!


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## DeusXM (Feb 15, 2017)

As others have said, there's a lot going on here. The most obvious point to look at is your carb ratio. You've assumed 1:10. Evidently that's not correct. So the important thing is not look on this whole thing as 'what did I do wrong'? The important thing is to look on it as 'what did I learn?'. 

Based on what you've suggested, we can say that probably your ratio isn't 1 to 10, which means your correction doses are likely incorrect too. As others said, you also didn't account for the sauce. I apologise if this comes across as a little patronising, but just because something is homemade doesn't mean it doesn't have any carbs!  

I would say before you even start carb counting, you need to get your basal set correctly. If your basal isn't right, you can't find out your ratios. 

Finally...look, if you're serious about getting your blood sugar under control, having spaghetti as a meal choice isn't the best idea. And honestly, why on earth are you drinking full sugar Ribena? Depending on the size of your glass and the strength you make it, it's got as many carbs as another half bowl of pasta. Even if you don't buy into low-carbing, there is literally no reason why anyone with diabetes should be drinking regular squash and soft drinks.


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## Ginny03 (Feb 15, 2017)

Agree with DeusXM on the ribena, particularly when you're starting from circa 13.0 (I'd save it as a 'low' drink), but pleanty of squash and soft drinks are low in carbs - not everyone likes water! 

Although foods that are easier to calculate carbs exactly are better for counting, I see nothing wrong with spaghetti as a food choice - just don't expect a perfect blood result 2 hours after - leave it 4 hours at least. I afraid I don't buy into low carbing for type 1s (though clearly there are limits to the amounts you should be having in one go). For me you should be able to live a 'normal' life with diabetes, without having to cut 1/5 of foods out of your diet.


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## Northerner (Feb 15, 2017)

I would start with very simple meals, with only a moderate amount of carbs - something like a sandwich and a yoghurt for lunch, for example. This will all take time and experience, so record everything - timing of injection before eating, amount of units, amount of carbs (in grams), what the meal was, BG level before, two hours after, four hours after, level before next meal (if longer than 4 hours). It does take a while, but if you are methodical then it should fall into place - but you do need to be patient, and I would avoid doing corrections between meals, instead include them in your next meal bolus - this will avoid the problems of 'stacking' and not knowing how much 'active insulin' you have on board.

But, as @DeusXM rightly says, you must first check that your basal insulin is set correctly. This should keep your levels steady when you are not eating and is designed to deal with th slow trickle of glucose released by your liver day and night to keep your body supplied with energy at all times (for your heart, lungs, brain, digestive system etc.).

This is a helpful explanation of basal testing, it's written for pump users, but the same principles apply to injections:

https://diatribe.org/beyond-basals-–-part-ii


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## Ljc (Feb 15, 2017)

Hi. I'm not posting to give you any advise, for one thing you have been getting lots of helpful advise from some very knowledgeable people on here   plus  I'm T2.
Ive just come here to reassure you that it can be done, these guys here helped me an awful lot when I first started on MDI.  My practice nurse was more flummoxed than I and that's saying something  plus my maffs left a lot to be desired, over the past year my maffs has improved so has my nurse 
Be patient , you will get their, honest !


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## everydayupsanddowns (Feb 15, 2017)

Ah Sprogladite! I'm so sorry your first try wasn't more successful for you.

Just wanted to add more encouragement though that this IS something that you can get to work well for you. Managing diabetes with carb counting is like a big machine with lots of cogs in it. Starting from where you are, you need to get all the right cogs in the right places - and this most likely won't happen immediately. And then once you've got things a bit more sorted (and you WILL honest!) you may find that some of the cogs change size slightly and you need to tweak and adjust things again. This isn't about getting the 'right numbers', it's about getting the right numbers for now, and seeing how they go, and then slightly adjusting when things start to drift off track.

The suggestion of starting with basal is a good one. As is experimenting with smaller meals - spaghetti and pasta generally have a bit of a reputation for being tricky and people often find they need special handling.

There is also a rule of thumb that suggests your 'normal' insulin:carb ratio often only works for carb loads up to a certain point. Usually it's approx grams of carb equivalent to your weight in kilos (so if you weigh 70kg it'd be meals up to 70g Carbs). Above that point many people find they need extra insulin.

As for starting doses/ratios, you could always check with the TDD 'rules' (which are more averages / guesses / starting points):


Assuming you are not permanently hypo OR permanently in double figures start by calculating your Total Daily Dose (TDD). That's all your meal doses, corrections and basal insulin.
Most people's basal will be approx half of their TDD. For some it will be 60:40 for others 40:60, but it's likely to be around that

For insulin sensitivity calculate 100 divided by TDD. This will be how much BG will drop in mmol/L from 1u of insulin
For meal ratio calculate 500 divided by TDD. This will be the grams of carb that are covered by 1u of insulin

These aren't likely to be perfect, but they might give you a bit of a start. Obviously in an ideal world you'd want to discuss this with your clinic/Dr/nurse before making any changes. Certainly don't make *drastic* changes off the back of these rules without speaking to someone - but they are ones that have been given to me in clinic.


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## Sprogladite (Feb 15, 2017)

DeusXM said:


> Finally...look, if you're serious about getting your blood sugar under control, having spaghetti as a meal choice isn't the best idea. And honestly, why on earth are you drinking full sugar Ribena? Depending on the size of your glass and the strength you make it, it's got as many carbs as another half bowl of pasta. Even if you don't buy into low-carbing, there is literally no reason why anyone with diabetes should be drinking regular squash and soft drinks.



Sorry I should have specified it's the light blue one...the no added sugar kind!



Northerner said:


> I would start with very simple meals, with only a moderate amount of carbs - something like a sandwich and a yoghurt for lunch, for example. This will all take time and experience, so record everything - timing of injection before eating, amount of units, amount of carbs (in grams), what the meal was, BG level before, two hours after, four hours after, level before next meal (if longer than 4 hours). It does take a while, but if you are methodical then it should fall into place - but you do need to be patient, and I would avoid doing corrections between meals, instead include them in your next meal bolus - this will avoid the problems of 'stacking' and not knowing how much 'active insulin' you have on board.
> 
> But, as @DeusXM rightly says, you must first check that your basal insulin is set correctly. This should keep your levels steady when you are not eating and is designed to deal with th slow trickle of glucose released by your liver day and night to keep your body supplied with energy at all times (for your heart, lungs, brain, digestive system etc.).
> 
> ...



Thank you, I will have a read of the link.  I agree that basal is the starting point and I will be discussing this with my DN on the 23rd when I'm due to see her.  I am also recording everything I'm doing, BG levels before and after eating, what I ate, how I worked out my dosage etc etc.



Ljc said:


> Hi. I'm not posting to give you any advise, for one thing you have been getting lots of helpful advise from some very knowledgeable people on here   plus  I'm T2.
> Ive just come here to reassure you that it can be done, these guys here helped me an awful lot when I first started on MDI.  My practice nurse was more flummoxed than I and that's saying something  plus my maffs left a lot to be desired, over the past year my maffs has improved so has my nurse
> Be patient , you will get their, honest !



Lol thank you @Ljc, I'm glad it's not just me who struggles with the joy that is maffs...thank goodness for calculators >.<



everydayupsanddowns said:


> There is also a rule of thumb that suggests your 'normal' insulin:carb ratio often only works for carb loads up to a certain point. Usually it's approx grams of carb equivalent to your weight in kilos (so if you weigh 70kg it'd be meals up to 70g Carbs). Above that point many people find they need extra insulin.
> 
> As for starting doses/ratios, you could always check with the TDD 'rules' (which are more averages / guesses / starting points):
> 
> ...



Thank you @everydayupsanddowns that is really useful.  My doctor is impossible to get hold of and I really feel I have suffered as a result.  I do however have an appointment (by a minor miracle) on the 23rd with the nurse so I will arm myself with all of this information to see if we can work out some sort of plan for me.

I really appreciate everyone's advice.  It can be very overwhelming not knowing what you're doing, especially when you know how severe the consequences of getting it wrong are.  I know that I have fallen into some bad habits over the years but I really do want to get everything sorted out. I have tried to do it on my own in the past and (obviously) failed which has just left me feeling so disheartened.  I am hoping that if I can get enough information, both here and from the DN, then I might *actually* have a chance!


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## Sprogladite (Feb 15, 2017)

Sorry another question - the BERTIEonline resource gives an example table which of carb foods and their CHO content.  I'm a little confused as to what I should be doing - the bertie rouces says to do 1 unit per 10g CHO but some people are talking about total grams of the food itself rather than CHO content - which one should I be using??



KookyCat said:


> Hi Sprogladite
> Don't be hard on yourself, that was a tricky meal to start carb counting with.  My best advice for practicing carb counting and testing ratios is to go simple, really simple.  I used M&S ready meals when I was doing it mostly because I couldn't use my right arm or stand for very long so I couldn't really slave over a hot stove, but the principle is sound (what an excuse ).  At this moment you don't know your ratios so that's one unknown so you want to rule out as many of the other unknowns as possible.  By simple I mean stuff you can weigh and be almost certain about the carb value (the wet weight and dry weight of pasta got me several times), don't guess, weigh is my mantra for the first stages.  It's overwhelming enough without adding in the extra layer of horror around estimating skills (mine were shocking, they're now pretty good ).  So boring old chicken, a baked spud and some veg, or more exciting flavours but with controlled amount of carb.
> 
> Start on one unit of insulin to 10 grams of carbohydrate and then see where that gets you.  Don't panic on the correction front, think of this as an experiment, correcting with a hair trigger will stop you from getting where you need to be.  In fact unless you're going extremely high I wouldn't correct at all for the first week.  You need to see how your body is reacting to the insulin and the food, but that has to be your choice.   Now this is the hard bit, and even though I'm saying it like it's easy believe me when I say I really understand it isn't, distance yourself from the emotion of the blood sugar levels, if you feel the panic about a double figure, breathe and tell yourself it's OK.  I know your brain knows it's not OK and you want it to be lower, but the way to get that is control and you'll get it if you can chew on that leather strap and take the pain for a little while.  Consider this a totally fresh start, the most valuable thing you can do is to understand how your body works with insulin, because in my experience that's the key to it all.  Getting into a cycle of correction is easy to do, but really hard to get out of I know, but if you can convince your brain to stop reacting so quickly you'll be able to see a pattern, and when you can see the patterns you can find an action that will work.  You can always post readings here and we'll help you interpret and adjust, there's a lot of experience here and we're always happy to help .
> ...



Also, thank you @KookyCat, that was such a lovely post and exactly what I needed to hear - everyone on this forum is lovely!


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## Kaylz (Feb 15, 2017)

May I ask how much Ribena you had to inject for it as the Ribena page states that a 250ml serving as diluted only has 1.8 grams of carbohydrate and you say you took 2 units of insulin for it where you probably wouldn't have needed insulin for that x


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## everydayupsanddowns (Feb 15, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> I'm a little confused as to what I should be doing - the bertie rouces says to do 1 unit per 10g CHO but some people are talking about total grams of the food itself rather than CHO content - which one should I be using??



It should be 1 unit per xx g CHO (you will have to work out your own 'best fit' and may find you need a slightly different one for breakfast/lunch/evening meal.

Any reference to total weight of food would be a mistake/misunderstanding in the post. It's only the carbs you are looking at. 

(was it a post which mistook you eating 200g in CARBS of pasta vs 200g in cooked weight of pasta - which is more like 60-70g carbs?)


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## Sprogladite (Feb 15, 2017)

Kaylz said:


> May I ask how much Ribena you had to inject for it as the Ribena page states that a 250ml serving as diluted only has 1.8 grams of carbohydrate and you say you took 2 units of insulin for it where you probably wouldn't have needed insulin for that x



It was a pint glass - I used the carbs and cals app, couldn't find Ribena of any sort on there so used 'squash' - I wasn't sure whether it was the right equivalent to use or not and looking at it again, there is a sugar free squash option which I missed last night, maybe I should have used that one?  But I'm pretty sure the no added sugar one is not completely sugar free so I probably still would have used 'squash'? I knew I was probably doing too much for the drink but at the same time I was operating on the theory it wasn't going to be 100% first time and i'd rather deal with a hypo than a hyper!  Which is why, in part, it came as such a shock that I went so high last night!



everydayupsanddowns said:


> It should be 1 unit per xx g CHO (you will have to work out your own 'best fit' and may find you need a slightly different one for breakfast/lunch/evening meal.
> 
> Any reference to total weight of food would be a mistake/misunderstanding in the post. It's only the carbs you are looking at.
> 
> (was it a post which mistook you eating 200g in CARBS of pasta vs 200g in cooked weight of pasta - which is more like 60-70g carbs?)



Yes, I had 200g cooked pasta which worked out to 60g carbs so i figured 6 units for that!  Thanks for clearing that up


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## grovesy (Feb 15, 2017)

The bottle should have a Carbs on the label.


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## Sprogladite (Feb 15, 2017)

grovesy said:


> The bottle should have a Carbs on the label.


Ok, do I take into account 'of which sugars'?

Also having a real 'duh' moment...I didn't even think to look at the label!


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## grovesy (Feb 15, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Ok, do I take into account 'of which sugars'?
> 
> Also having a real 'duh' moment...I didn't even think to look at the label!


No the total Carbs.


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## Sprogladite (Feb 15, 2017)

grovesy said:


> No the total Carbs.


Ok, I will have a look at that when I get home tonight for future reference.  Thank you!


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## DeusXM (Feb 15, 2017)

Just another point (and sorry if this one's a little disheartening!)...I would only go off the carb counts available on Carbs n Cals, BERTIE etc. when there is no information on the product itself. The carb information on both those sources is 'best guess' but products can have a lot of variability.

For things like sauces made from scratch, you almost need to start right at the beginning by looking at the carbs in the raw ingredients, adding it all together and then knowing how much is in the total amount of sauce (eg. you know you've put 30g of carbs in, and you've ended up with 250ml of sauce), then working backwards. So in this instance, say you know there's 100ml of sauce on your plate, you'd divide 30g by 250ml, and then multiply by 100ml to get 12g in your sauce.

That's a particularly fiddly example but shows how things can work. I know it's a real pain but doing a lot of the hard stuff up front leaves you with good estimating skills for the future - the best skill anyone who uses insulin can learn is how to eyeball a plate of food and make a pretty good guess of how many carbs are in it.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Feb 15, 2017)

One of my favourite apps for cooking from scratch is 'Cook and Count'.

It has a big directory of standard ingredients built-in and you can add new ones from your own larder. Then you just put put the recipe together and it will tell you the carb count per portion (as long as you divide roughly equally!). You can save recipes you make often and tweak/update them again, or simply change number of portions if you one extra to feed.


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## Sprogladite (Feb 15, 2017)

Ok, another question - say, for example, I have a chicken and bacon baguette for lunch.  Carbs, according to the label is 51.9.  Is this 'carbs' level on the label the same as CHO that bertie refers to?  Sorry if that's a stupid question I just want to make sure I have the right info!  



DeusXM said:


> Just another point (and sorry if this one's a little disheartening!)...I would only go off the carb counts available on Carbs n Cals, BERTIE etc. when there is no information on the product itself. The carb information on both those sources is 'best guess' but products can have a lot of variability.
> 
> For things like sauces made from scratch, you almost need to start right at the beginning by looking at the carbs in the raw ingredients, adding it all together and then knowing how much is in the total amount of sauce (eg. you know you've put 30g of carbs in, and you've ended up with 250ml of sauce), then working backwards. So in this instance, say you know there's 100ml of sauce on your plate, you'd divide 30g by 250ml, and then multiply by 100ml to get 12g in your sauce.
> 
> That's a particularly fiddly example but shows how things can work. I know it's a real pain but doing a lot of the hard stuff up front leaves you with good estimating skills for the future - the best skill anyone who uses insulin can learn is how to eyeball a plate of food and make a pretty good guess of how many carbs are in it.


Not disheartening, just eye opening lol.  I never realised how much of my diet actually consists of carbs I didn't know I was eating!


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## Sprogladite (Feb 15, 2017)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> One of my favourite apps for cooking from scratch is 'Cook and Count'.
> 
> It has a big directory of standard ingredients built-in and you can add new ones from your own larder. Then you just put put the recipe together and it will tell you the carb count per portion (as long as you divide roughly equally!). You can save recipes you make often and tweak/update them again, or simply change number of portions if you one extra to feed.


Thank you that sounds like a lifesaver!  The prospect of all this maths has me shaking in my boots lol!


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## Sprogladite (Feb 15, 2017)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> As for starting doses/ratios, you could always check with the TDD 'rules' (which are more averages / guesses / starting points):
> 
> Assuming you are not permanently hypo OR permanently in double figures start by calculating your Total Daily Dose (TDD). That's all your meal doses, corrections and basal insulin.
> Most people's basal will be approx half of their TDD. For some it will be 60:40 for others 40:60, but it's likely to be around that
> ...



Ok so I've done a little bit of the dreaded maths and have come up with the following:

1. TDD - 18 + 11 + 14 (novorapid) + 28 glargine = 71
2. Basal is 28 - roughly 40:60 ish?  Someone may have to help me with this lol
3. 71/100 = 0.71, so for correction doses that equates to just under a unit per mmol/L that will drop - I suspect this  one may actually be higher
4. 500/71 = 7.04, so that makes it 1:7.  I literally have no idea how to convert that into a ratio that is x:10 lol...help!

Any thoughts on the above?


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## everydayupsanddowns (Feb 15, 2017)

@Sprogladite Blimey charlie!! *STOPPPPP!!!*

And this is why you should never trust some random nutter on the internet.

In my haste I got it entirely the wrong way around!

The 100 rule is 100/TDD. So in your case 100/71 = 1u drops BG by 1.4mmol/L


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## Sprogladite (Feb 15, 2017)

Ok, I did think that one seemed a bit low! That really made me chuckle lol.  At least my maths was right haha!

Don't worry I'm not planning to use these before I've discussed them with the DN.  What I do after will be entirely dependent on how helpful the visit has been!


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## everydayupsanddowns (Feb 15, 2017)

For meal ratios, sounds like you can either brush up on your 7 times table or 1.4 times table.

1u:7g carbs = 100u:70g carbs = 1.4u:10g carbs

Personally I would work out the total carbs and divide by 7 on my phone.

So 14g carbs (a pack of crisps, smallish apple) would be 2u.

Or a meal totalling, say, 65g carbs would be 65/7 = 9.28, which you'd round down to 9u

Having said ALL of this... the changes you are thinking of making to your initial ratios/factors quite large. And I'd be tempted to do a 'halfway house' so you can view progress. 10% or 20% differences are pretty safe. So try 1:9 first, for a few days/week, then 1:8 etc.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Feb 15, 2017)

Incidentally CHO is science speak for Carbon plus Hydrogen and Oxygen (water). The components of Carbo-Hydrate. They are the same thing


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## Sprogladite (Feb 15, 2017)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> For meal ratios, sounds like you can either brush up on your 7 times table or 1.4 times table.
> 
> 1u:7g carbs = 100u:70g carbs = 1.4u:10g carbs
> 
> ...



That sounds good, I definitely don't want to do anything drastic while I'm still learning.  Is it worth me sticking to 1:10 initially for a couple of days just to make sure that's definitely not right for me, and go down from there? Or rather up, as we think my ratio is probably slightly more?


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## everydayupsanddowns (Feb 15, 2017)

I'd always advise caution, and checking with actual qualified people wherever possible. Marathon not a sprint etc etc.

It's actually pretty terrifying that we are let loose to administer a potentially lethal drug using our own guesswork several times a day!


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## Sprogladite (Feb 15, 2017)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> I'd always advise caution, and checking with actual qualified people wherever possible. Marathon not a sprint etc etc.
> 
> It's actually pretty terrifying that we are let loose to administer a potentially lethal drug using our own guesswork several times a day!



It is, especially as most of the time it is guesswork when we haven't been given the appropriate guidance. Ok, I'm gonna be super duper cautious and have a ham and cheese baguette for lunch with a glass of water and use the 1:10 ratio, because I want to see how different it is when I calculate properly. The baguette is 218g total weight, has 24.9 carbs/100g, so that's what, 5 and a bit units? Sugar level is currently 7.6 so don't want to do any corrections this time, but maybe up it to 6 units total? What do you think?


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## SB2015 (Feb 15, 2017)

Info from packet 24.9 g CHO per 100 g
Weight of baguette 218 g
Amount of carbs in whole baguette 24.9 x 2.18      (218 /100 = 2.18)
                                               = 54 g CHO. (I also keep a calculator in the kitchen along with the scales)

If your ratio is 1 unit : 10 g CHO  then that his 5 and a bit units, maybe up to 6 to address BG.
Spot on.  Your Maths is fine, and with carb counting it will just get better.

When I was worrying about going high after meals I just reduced the carbs, e.g. Half a baguette.

I hope that you get your ratios sorted soon.


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## Sprogladite (Feb 15, 2017)

SB2015 said:


> Info from packet 24.9 g CHO per 100 g
> Weight of baguette 218 g
> Amount of carbs in whole baguette 24.9 x 2.18      (218 /100 = 2.18)
> = 54 g CHO. (I also keep a calculator in the kitchen along with the scales)
> ...



Thank you! That is what I did, so I will check sugars in a couple of hours. Cross your fingers lol


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## DeusXM (Feb 15, 2017)

If we're assuming a 1:10 ratio then your maths is correct, but I'd question whether you've read the carb figures correctly. I get that there's ham and cheese adding to the weight of the baguette which are effectively carb-free, but a standard empty baguette is something like 50g of carbs per 100g and they're fast acting too. So aside from the point that in all honesty, it's not a great choice at all for someone with diabetes, I'm a bit worried that you may have misread the carb information.


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## Sprogladite (Feb 15, 2017)

DeusXM said:


> If we're assuming a 1:10 ratio then your maths is correct, but I'd question whether you've read the carb figures correctly. I get that there's ham and cheese adding to the weight of the baguette which are effectively carb-free, but a standard empty baguette is something like 50g of carbs per 100g and they're fast acting too. So aside from the point that in all honesty, it's not a great choice at all for someone with diabetes, I'm a bit worried that you may have misread the carb information.


I definitely didn't misread it, I had two different people here at work check my maths coz I was worried about getting it wrong!  If what you're saying is right, does this mean I can't trust the labels on the food I'm buying??


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## DeusXM (Feb 15, 2017)

I stand corrected - I'd just usually expect a baguette to have a higher proportion of carbs in it. Must be a decent sized filling instead of the usual one slice of wafer thin ham and half a Babybel you usually get!


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## Sprogladite (Feb 15, 2017)

DeusXM said:


> I stand corrected - I'd just usually expect a baguette to have a higher proportion of carbs in it. Must be a decent sized filling instead of the usual one slice of wafer thin ham and half a Babybel you usually get!


Lol if it helps, the baguette was from Eat!


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## trophywench (Feb 15, 2017)

The carb in a baguette varies enormously depending on a) the length of it you eat b) the girth of the baguette originally and c) whether your bit happens to be full of holes or is 100% bread !

I'd round that down to 5u if you don't want to correct.  Did you know - you can quite easily request a half-unit pen instead of the 1u one you have at the moment?  Same cartridges fit in either.  I should ask your DSN for one when you see her - add it to the list!  Makes the whole thing so much more precise - 54g = 5.5u (at 1u for 10g) - and easier, you don't have to have that discussion with yourself - shall I round this up, or down?  actually!


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## Radders (Feb 15, 2017)

trophywench said:


> I'd round that down to 5u if you don't want to correct.  Did you know - you can quite easily request a half-unit pen instead of the 1u one you have at the moment?  Same cartridges fit in either.  I should ask your DSN for one when you see her - add it to the list!  Makes the whole thing so much more precise - 54g = 5.5u (at 1u for 10g) - and easier, you don't have to have that discussion with yourself - shall I round this up, or down?  actually!



I was going to post this. Half unit pens save a lot of trouble!


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## Sprogladite (Feb 15, 2017)

Oh really! I had absolutely no idea half unit pens were even a thing!  I shall stick it on the list  poor DN she is gonna have a shock when I walk in and throw all this info at her lol


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## Sprogladite (Feb 15, 2017)

I've just done a blood test and I'm at 13.1, which makes sense given we think my ratio is slightly higher than 1:10.  I'll try to test in another 2 hours but might be tricky as that is mid-commute time and I'll be power walking through London in an effort to catch the early train! If not I'll do it once I've got on the train


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## Sprogladite (Feb 15, 2017)

I've just been informed that we are having pizza for dinner (the kind you buy in a shop rather than takeaway).  From what I am reading, this is a bad idea, right? Or can I just use the carb value on the box?  That being said, my family tend to split 4 different pizzas between us so that's a total carb counting nightmare...ugh!

EDIT: Just been told that I can have one (plain) mozarella pizza to myself.  Looked it up and its 96g carbs for pizza! WHAT!!


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## zx10pilot (Feb 15, 2017)

Yep, it's the base - it's dough, and a "deep pan" pizza can easily have upwards of 100g carb content without even considering any toppings! With toppings I've seen one that was 140g for a medium size BBQ chicken one. 
Also, the fat content slows down the digestion of Carbs so it is possible that you will have to split your Rapid (ie take half before you eat and half after) otherwise you might end up going low as the Insulin has started working before the Carbs are available. 
Pizza and Baguette - two of the foods that I really used to enjoy that simply aren't as much fun now


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## Sprogladite (Feb 15, 2017)

zx10pilot said:


> Yep, it's the base - it's dough, and a "deep pan" pizza can easily have upwards of 100g carb content without even considering any toppings! With toppings I've seen one that was 140g for a medium size BBQ chicken one.
> Also, the fat content slows down the digestion of Carbs so it is possible that you will have to split your Rapid (ie take half before you eat and half after) otherwise you might end up going low as the Insulin has started working before the Carbs are available.
> Pizza and Baguette - two of the foods that I really used to enjoy that simply aren't as much fun now



Gosh well that's depressing!! I'm pretty sure it's thanks to pizza I've managed to mostly stay out of the dark clutches of depression :S so, considering this is a plain mozarella pizza, could I, for example, have half a pizza and a salad? Is that any better?


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## trophywench (Feb 15, 2017)

If you think it's bad for diabetics - last time my dear husband bit into a baguette - he lost a crown!


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## everydayupsanddowns (Feb 15, 2017)

I would generally go for 2 or 3 slices of pizza and lots of salad. Most of the ones we tend to buy in supermarkets work out at about 20g a slice if cut into six slices (or the *massive ones* cut into eight) Takeaway pizzas are generally waaaay more carby, but we hardly ever have those.

On the whole pizza treats me fairly kindly, but one thing to bear in mind is that pizza is another one renowned for not following the rules. High carb load and high fat content can delay the carbs hitting so if you dose all up front you may crash hypo soon after eating only to rise to a massive high later. You can split your dose and take some before eating and the rest after an hour or two, but the split/timing will be quite individual.

Still... gives a good excuse for repeated experiments 

EDIT: posted at same time as ZxPilot  Snap!


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## Sprogladite (Feb 15, 2017)

Lol @everydayupsanddowns now there is a positive spin if ever I saw one!

Ok, sooooooooo thinking about a plan for tonight - I'm thinking 2 slices + salad, if I do a ratio of 1.2:10 then with 40g of carbs this would be 4.8 units (upped to 5), + whatever corrective dose (if needed), to be split into 2 doses? Does it matter how the unequal sides fall around eating? Ie should I do this bigger or smaller one first before eating, does this matter?


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## everydayupsanddowns (Feb 15, 2017)

That will vary person to person - so all you can do is try one and see. If correction is part of the scheme of things I'd generally add that on to the 'upfront' and split the dose for the carbs but it's very individual. TBH I don't need to split myself I just take all up front. But I do seem to be an oddity because so many people find pizza is very slow for them.


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## Sprogladite (Feb 15, 2017)

I've just tested again and have gone up to 14.7


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## KookyCat (Feb 15, 2017)

Ooh now pizza is a tricky beast.....and I wouldn't split for pizza I'd delay the bolus until I'd eaten the pizza because the fat makes my digestion a bit sluggish and I'm super sensitive to insulin so I can't advise on the split really, except if its unequal I'd go small before and large after on the basis that lots of cheese will slow it right down spike wise, but you're likely to spike quite high later (that's just a go with your gut thing though to start with, pardon the pun!).  Maths wise though I find it easier to view 1.2:10 as roughly 1:8 because then you just divide the total carbs by 8, rather than divide by 10 and times 1.2 by that number.  I like easy , although that sentence was a challenge.

Now on the correction dose front, are you sure your correction ratio is correct?  If not you're going to complicate your situation when you test afterwards.  If you can stand it could you not add the correction dose and just measure your post meal?  Would make it easier for you to see if the 1:8 ish is about right for you.  I know it's hard to do because you don't want to be high, but if that correction dose is awry you might find yourself unsure if it was the ratio or the correction that made it work or not work, course if you're quite confident on the correction ratio ignore that comment.  Best of luck with the pizza experiment, lab coat at the ready, protractor poised


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## Lilian (Feb 15, 2017)

The book or app - Carbs & Cals not only gives you the carbs but it also gives you pictures of three portion sizes so it is easier to work out.    If what you are havining is not listed you can add it and take a picture (this is on smart phone of course) so you can see the portion size for future reference.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Feb 15, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> I've just tested again and have gone up to 14.7


Looks like your suspicions about ratio may be right. 

Would be good to get your basal checked with a set of fasting tests at some stage though.


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## Sprogladite (Feb 15, 2017)

@everydayupsanddowns yes I am planning to do that this weekend - can't really be up every couple of hours with work the way it is at the moment!

@KookyCat no I'm not 100% sure so I will do a dose just for the meal, thank you I hadn't thought about the impacts of a correction dose. I am tempted to do the same as you and do one injection afterwards (just to save doing more than one per meal) - how long do you typically wait to do the whole lot? It's funny you say about lab coats, I'm pretty sure my son has one that I would fit into - sounds like i might need to get it out! Haha!


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## DeusXM (Feb 15, 2017)

From the perspective of carb counting, generally the topping is utterly irrelevant - it's the bread and cheese that make it complicated!


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## Sprogladite (Feb 15, 2017)

Ok, just got home after the commute from hell and sugar has gone back down to 13.2. Does anyone have a suggestion as to how long after eating I need to inject? I'm going to try full dose after eating first, if that doesn't work I'll try again but split it!


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## Sprogladite (Feb 15, 2017)

Also, what are the implications of exercise on how we calculate dosages for carbs? I go riding every week but as it happens pony is lame right now so not riding this weekend. How would I handle this? I typically ride for 45 mins at a time.


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## Sprogladite (Feb 15, 2017)

Scratch that, I'm an absolute freaking idiot. Pizza is ready shortly after I get home, I go merrily downstairs and inject myself on auto pilot with the 5 units. Was so focused on getting dose right I forgot about timing. I'm so annoyed at myself!!


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## Robin (Feb 15, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Also, what are the implications of exercise on how we calculate dosages for carbs? I go riding every week but as it happens pony is lame right now so not riding this weekend. How would I handle this? I typically ride for 45 mins at a time.


I find riding a tricky one. I have a lesson every week, or occasionally go for a hack. If I'm having an intense flatwork lesson, concentrating hard, and working quite hard, I often find my levels drop a bit. If we're jumping, and the adrenalin gets going, I rise! Trouble is, I don't know what we'll be doing til I get to the stables. Hacking doesn't have much of an effect either way.
It's trial and error, I'm afraid, testing before and after, and observing what happens, then reacting to it.


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## SB2015 (Feb 15, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Scratch that, I'm an absolute freaking idiot. Pizza is ready shortly after I get home, I go merrily downstairs and inject myself on auto pilot with the 5 units. Was so focused on getting dose right I forgot about timing. I'm so annoyed at myself!!


Hi Sprogladite, it is easy to go into autopilot and it will no doubt happen again.  Be nice to your self you have lots to work out at present.

 I would encourage you to do the fasting test this weekend as it makes it a lot easier to get the there ratios sorted once you know the basal is correct.

As you are already finding out carbs are hiding in so many places.  Once you get the idea of carb counting it does get easier and you get better at eyeballing food and knowing the carbs.  As you have read though something like a baguette can vary a great deal, so keep reading the labels and keep on with the Maths.  I bet when you were at school you never realised how important ratios would become to you.  I had my class work out my insulin for th epacked lunch I had on one occasion!


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## Sprogladite (Feb 15, 2017)

SB2015 said:


> Hi Sprogladite, it is easy to go into autopilot and it will no doubt happen again.  Be nice to your self you have lots to work out at present.
> 
> I would encourage you to do the fasting test this weekend as it makes it a lot easier to get the there ratios sorted once you know the basal is correct.
> 
> As you are already finding out carbs are hiding in so many places.  Once you get the idea of carb counting it does get easier and you get better at eyeballing food and knowing the carbs.  As you have read though something like a baguette can vary a great deal, so keep reading the labels and keep on with the Maths.  I bet when you were at school you never realised how important ratios would become to you.  I had my class work out my insulin for th epacked lunch I had on one occasion!


Thank you, I really appreciate the support, you guys are honestly keeping me sane at this point. I've just tested again and sugar is 16.4, will test again in an hour or two to see which direction it's heading in...I didn't do any corrective insulin just the dose for the meal so that should be interesting!


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## Sprogladite (Feb 15, 2017)

Robin said:


> I find riding a tricky one. I have a lesson every week, or occasionally go for a hack. If I'm having an intense flatwork lesson, concentrating hard, and working quite hard, I often find my levels drop a bit. If we're jumping, and the adrenalin gets going, I rise! Trouble is, I don't know what we'll be doing til I get to the stables. Hacking doesn't have much of an effect either way.
> It's trial and error, I'm afraid, testing before and after, and observing what happens, then reacting to it.


Yes I'm the same except it's lessons I'm not sure what we're gonna be doing - I have a loan pony who is lame at the moment but we stick to schooling as there's no hacking available, and I have a lesson every 2 weeks at a riding school which is pretty intense hard work. Sometimes we jump, sometimes we don't, but we never know what it's gonna be until we get there which makes planning for it difficult. I miss hacking so much! Makes a lot of sense about it being trial and error, sometimes I hypo after mucking out lol (I'm small and unfit!) and I find when that happens it's coz we've been working hard in the school. I guess I have a slight notion of what will effect me, just need to pay more attention now!


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## trophywench (Feb 15, 2017)

Just keep JBs in your pocket and scoff a couple as you pick up the pitchfork/rake whatever.

Just a note on pizza - it regularly spikes me about 5 hours after I eat it ....... so, it's at most once a week and Pete always gets the big half LOL  He has chips and I have salad.   Half is 47 ish g - so I get 40g or less.  It's enough cos I'd rarely have 4 spuds (ie 10g ish pieces of spud) with a meat and veg dinner, so I don't have substantially more than 30 -40g whether it's pizza or rice or anything really.  Macaroni cheese with toast is a bit higher but that probably happens twice a year LOL


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## Sprogladite (Feb 15, 2017)

Hmm it's interesting people are saying its spiking them, I've just tested again and am down to 14.3! I started off at 13.2, was 16 after 2 hours, now 14.3 after 3 and a half. We know my ratio isn't quite right yet. Is it too early to hope that pizza isn't evil to me? LOL


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## DeusXM (Feb 16, 2017)

Honestly, I know you're working towards it, but I think before you start working on ratios you really need to get your basal sorted and start from a healthy initial reading. The problem is that meters become increasingly inaccurate the higher your blood glucose is, and in my personal experience my body ironically uses insulin less efficiently the higher my blood sugar is.

What is really needed is for you to get your blood sugar down into at least single figures before doing the carb counting thing. You also, temporarily, really need to make some better dietary choices that will help you get to that point in the first instance. So far you've had spaghetti, a whole baguette, and a pizza - foods that I know personally wreck utter havoc with my blood sugar and I find near impossible to bolus for. It's not so much running before you can walk, as trying to beat Usain Bolt before you can walk!

Seriously, for your carb counting work, at least start with meals that aren't both high-carb and high-fat. You will find this process a heck of a lot easier and less frustrating.


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## Sprogladite (Feb 16, 2017)

@DeusXM I totally get what you are trying to say; however - as I've said previously, there is no way I can do a basal test until this weekend, which I am planning to do.  My sugars have been in the single figures initially, it's not until after lunch they have gone into double digits, which I don't think is a terrible thing considering we don't know what my ratio is yet (6.5 in the am, 7.6 or close at lunch, can't remember exactly now.  4.4 this morning).  
As far as dietary choices go, I'm completely and totally unwilling to cut things like spaghetti out of my diet.  It is not going to happen.  A lot of people here have stated that they have found ways to keep these foods in their diet, whether it's by splitting injections, changing the timing of their injections, reducing portion size etc.  Changing my diet whilst working out my ratio seems counterproductive to me, surely it is better to work it out on the diet I am already on? I will never be one of these diabetics who cuts carbs out as much as possible.  I'm willing to do the work to find a way to manage them when I do eat them, if it's more difficult then it's more difficult but I'm sure I'll get there eventually. 
As mentioned previously, I'm putting literally everything I'm doing, dosing and eating, along with my BG levels onto a spreadsheet which I will be taking with me when I see the DN on the 23rd.   Another week of this is not going to do any serious damage, and who knows, it could well be that I've got my basal and ratio sorted out by then.  I appreciate everyone's help, and I know my meal choices haven't been what's considered 'simple' for a carb counting diabetic, however that's just life. I leave for work at 7am and frequently don't get back until 8pm in the evening.  I can't afford to wait for my family to eat and then cook something completely separately for myself, I wouldn't eat until 10pm.
Bear in mind I've literally done this for one complete day.  I'm on a fairly steep learning curve here and for the last 23 years I've been under the impression that carbs are a good thing for diabetics!  I am having to completely relearn everything I thought I knew. If there is any possibility that I can find a way to make carb counting work for me without fiddling around with my diet, then I want to give that a fair go before I start trying anything else.  I hope that makes sense


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## DeusXM (Feb 16, 2017)

> As far as dietary choices go, I'm completely and totally unwilling to cut things like spaghetti out of my diet.



And I'm not suggesting you do. I just said these are hard meals to bolus for. Given as you say this is the first time you've really tried this, it makes WAY more sense to try with 'easier' meals first before graduating to the more complex stuff. And by easier, I mean things like meat and two veg with spuds etc. I'm not saying 'don't eat carbs ever', I'm just saying that if you want to learn how to manage your carbs, the worst place to start is with the kind of meals that tend to be the exceptions to the patterns! It's also not about asking your family to wait and then cook something separately. As you said, it's just 'another week' - is it really that much to ask your family, for just one week, to maybe just have some simpler things for dinner to help you learn some things that mean you'll have many more years of happiness together?

Or bluntly, is your family's 'right' to have pasta or pizza more than once a week more important than your right to being healthy?

As I said, make sure you've learned to walk before you start trying to beat Usain Bolt. I didn't say 'don't go for gold'.


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## Sprogladite (Feb 16, 2017)

DeusXM said:


> And I'm not suggesting you do. I just said these are hard meals to bolus for. Given as you say this is the first time you've really tried this, it makes WAY more sense to try with 'easier' meals first before graduating to the more complex stuff. And by easier, I mean things like meat and two veg with spuds etc. I'm not saying 'don't eat carbs ever', I'm just saying that if you want to learn how to manage your carbs, the worst place to start is with the kind of meals that tend to be the exceptions to the patterns! It's also not about asking your family to wait and then cook something separately. As you said, it's just 'another week' - is it really that much to ask your family, for just one week, to maybe just have some simpler things for dinner to help you learn some things that mean you'll have many more years of happiness together?
> 
> Or bluntly, is your family's 'right' to have pasta or pizza more than once a week more important than your right to being healthy?
> 
> As I said, make sure you've learned to walk before you start trying to beat Usain Bolt. I didn't say 'don't go for gold'.



Knowing my personal situation will probably help you understand where i'm coming from on this one - I live at home with my parents and son.  My father is retired and is the one who prepares dinners/decides what we are having.  I have always been frustrated with my family as their understanding of diabetes has always been very black and white, and they are unwilling to sit down and learn about what it actually is because as far as they are concerned, they know how to treat hypos and they know when to get me to hospital when I'm high, and that's all they need to know.  My dad in particular is of the 'you should just be grateful you're getting your dinner cooked for you at all' mindset and if I dare to ask for any flexibility/changes then ultimately it would come down to him refusing to cook dinner for me at all and I would be back to waiting for everyone to be done before I can cook dinner for myself.  So in response to your question, yes, it is apparently too much to ask.  It's frustrating but there isn't an awful lot I can do about it.

That being said, my mother has agreed to come to the supermarket this weekend to find some alternatives to all of the pasta we have in the house.  She is more open to learning about this with me, but again, she doesn't appreciate the difference between different types of carbs, for her they are all the same.  I am hoping that by doing this, meals for next week will be somewhat 'simpler' in terms of the carb counting!


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## Kaylz (Feb 16, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Knowing my personal situation will probably help you understand where i'm coming from on this one - I live at home with my parents and son.  My father is retired and is the one who prepares dinners/decides what we are having.  I have always been frustrated with my family as their understanding of diabetes has always been very black and white, and they are unwilling to sit down and learn about what it actually is because as far as they are concerned, they know how to treat hypos and they know when to get me to hospital when I'm high, and that's all they need to know.  My dad in particular is of the 'you should just be grateful you're getting your dinner cooked for you at all' mindset and if I dare to ask for any flexibility/changes then ultimately it would come down to him refusing to cook dinner for me at all and I would be back to waiting for everyone to be done before I can cook dinner for myself.  So in response to your question, yes, it is apparently too much to ask.  It's frustrating but there isn't an awful lot I can do about it.
> 
> That being said, my mother has agreed to come to the supermarket this weekend to find some alternatives to all of the pasta we have in the house.  She is more open to learning about this with me, but again, she doesn't appreciate the difference between different types of carbs, for her they are all the same.  I am hoping that by doing this, meals for next week will be somewhat 'simpler' in terms of the carb counting!


Why would you have to wait for everyone else to be finished their meal before you cook yours, could you not prepare some meals at the weekend that you could pop in the freezer and then just take out and reheat when needed, I have tea with my 84 year old very stubborn grandad who has taken aboard that there has had to be changes in what we eat as he understands it's better for me in the long run but if he hadn't been so understanding and willing to go along with it I would have done exactly as I've just said, made my own things at the weekend and put them in the freezer, I also live at home with my mum, I am not in any way criticizing you or your family, but it may be good to get one of your parents along to an appointment with your DSN or dietician if you see one, as I feel quite sorry that you have to just go along with what is put in front of you, by no means should you cut them out completely jeez I still regularly enjoy a bar of chocolate like a kit kat peanut butter chunky by lowering my lunch carbs and adding it in, unlike you though I have not been brave enough to try pasta, pizza etc, I did well on a chinese when first diagnosed and on set units with a rice and chicken curry but I haven't had it again as I can't remember what I took for it or how much it was as the dietician kept my food diary with it on, what kind of other meals do you have as only a suggestion have your pasta or noodles etc a smaller portion and bulk it out with things like chicken or beef as that has no carbs, I really wish you the best of luck and please don't feel frustrated at things said here, we all want to support and help you along this  x


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## Sprogladite (Feb 16, 2017)

Kaylz said:


> Why would you have to wait for everyone else to be finished their meal before you cook yours, could you not prepare some meals at the weekend that you could pop in the freezer and then just take out and reheat when needed, I have tea with my 84 year old very stubborn grandad who has taken aboard that there has had to be changes in what we eat as he understands it's better for me in the long run but if he hadn't been so understanding and willing to go along with it I would have done exactly as I've just said, made my own things at the weekend and put them in the freezer, I also live at home with my mum, I am not in any way criticizing you or your family, but it may be good to get one of your parents along to an appointment with your DSN or dietician if you see one, as I feel quite sorry that you have to just go along with what is put in front of you, by no means should you cut them out completely jeez I still regularly enjoy a bar of chocolate like a kit kat peanut butter chunky by lowering my lunch carbs and adding it in, unlike you though I have not been brave enough to try pasta, pizza etc, I did well on a chinese when first diagnosed and on set units with a rice and chicken curry but I haven't had it again as I can't remember what I took for it or how much it was as the dietician kept my food diary with it on, what kind of other meals do you have as only a suggestion have your pasta or noodles etc a smaller portion and bulk it out with things like chicken or beef as that has no carbs, I really wish you the best of luck and please don't feel frustrated at things said here, we all want to support and help you along this  x



I could, except my dad has severe OCD so cooking for him is a problem as it really sets him off (this is why he is the one who does the cooking in the house).  I also wouldn't be able to store a week's worth of dinners in the freezer, the one we have is too small.  I have asked both of my parents to come with me to the clinic but they are both unwilling to do this - they see it as a waste of time.  As far as they are concerned they have what was told to them when I was initially diagnosed and that's all they need.  They don't understand that the advice I was given was wrong, they don't even understand the difference between mixed insulin and the regimen I'm on now.  Dealing with them as far as the diabetes is concerned is very frustrating, it has literally gotten to the point where I don't feel I can talk to them about it because it will end in a fight and me crying in frustration.


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## Kaylz (Feb 16, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> I could, except my dad has severe OCD so cooking for him is a problem as it really sets him off (this is why he is the one who does the cooking in the house).  I also wouldn't be able to store a week's worth of dinners in the freezer, the one we have is too small.  I have asked both of my parents to come with me to the clinic but they are both unwilling to do this - they see it as a waste of time.  As far as they are concerned they have what was told to them when I was initially diagnosed and that's all they need.  They don't understand that the advice I was given was wrong, they don't even understand the difference between mixed insulin and the regimen I'm on now.  Dealing with them as far as the diabetes is concerned is very frustrating, it has literally gotten to the point where I don't feel I can talk to them about it because it will end in a fight and me crying in frustration.


Ah I've lived with a form of OCD, for me it was I always felt like I needed to wash my hands constantly throughout the day, to me they were never clean, since being diagnosed I haven't had that problem and the skin on my hands look so much better now, I really wish I could think of a way that would help you as reading what you are going through is heartbreaking x


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## Ljc (Feb 16, 2017)

It sounds like you are in somewhat of a difficult situation. I do hope that mum going to the supermarket with you will help.  Fingers crossed it does.


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## Sprogladite (Feb 16, 2017)

Ljc said:


> It sounds like you are in somewhat of a difficult situation. I do hope that mum going to the supermarket with you will help.  Fingers crossed it does.


Thank you, it's the only thing I can think of!  If anyone else has any suggestions I'm more than willing to take them on board


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## Northerner (Feb 16, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> I could, except my dad has severe OCD so cooking for him is a problem as it really sets him off (this is why he is the one who does the cooking in the house).  I also wouldn't be able to store a week's worth of dinners in the freezer, the one we have is too small.  I have asked both of my parents to come with me to the clinic but they are both unwilling to do this - they see it as a waste of time.  As far as they are concerned they have what was told to them when I was initially diagnosed and that's all they need.  They don't understand that the advice I was given was wrong, they don't even understand the difference between mixed insulin and the regimen I'm on now.  Dealing with them as far as the diabetes is concerned is very frustrating, it has literally gotten to the point where I don't feel I can talk to them about it because it will end in a fight and me crying in frustration.


It must be very frustrating for you  I'm fortunate to be able to make all my own food choices, and decide when to eat, but I used to get very frustrated when spending time with my Dad and stepmother for a week each year. Although my stepmother had some idea, my dad really didn't, and they used to eat far too late for my liking as I have never liked going to bed with insulin still active from my evening meal. Still, that was only a week a year, I think it would drive me mad if I had to do it all the time - you have my sympathies! Hope you can manage to work something out


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## Ljc (Feb 16, 2017)

I live with my elderly dad, he just can't understand no matter how I try, that I don't count calories, I count carbs instead, luckily I do all the cooking, else I'd be having air pie and windy pud for dinner if he had his way 
So I do understand a little something of what your going through


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## Sprogladite (Feb 16, 2017)

Thank you.  It's why I feel I don't have many choices in terms of simplifying my meals currently.  Breakfast and lunch I have more control of as I am in the office when I eat, so maybe I should stick to a fixed dose for the evening and try using breakfast and lunch for working out carb ratios?  If all else fails the parents are going on holiday in early July so I will have a week where I can knuckle down with some simpler meals and hopefully get this nailed. I'd really rather not have to wait that long though!


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## Northerner (Feb 16, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Thank you.  It's why I feel I don't have many choices in terms of simplifying my meals currently.  Breakfast and lunch I have more control of as I am in the office when I eat, so maybe I should stick to a fixed dose for the evening and try using breakfast and lunch for working out carb ratios?  If all else fails the parents are going on holiday in early July so I will have a week where I can knuckle down with some simpler meals and hopefully get this nailed. I'd really rather not have to wait that long though!


It's certainly worth working out the breakfast and lunch ratios first as they might give you a good indication of where to go with your evening meals. I find that I need a lot more insulin in the mornings, then it reduces by lunchtime and then even more by the evening. A lot of people find this and it is due to us tending to be more insulin-resistant in the mornings, then more insulin-sensitive as the day progresses and we become more active  As an example, I currently need 8 units for a slice of toast for breakfast, 8 units for much more carbs at lunchtime for a sandwich and banana and a yoghurt, then about 6 units for even more carbs in my evening meal - so quite a variation throughout the day. You might, of course, be very different - that's the awkward nature of diabetes


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## DeusXM (Feb 16, 2017)

I think perhaps it's less about changing what everyone eats, and more just altering the proportions - for instance, instead of a big bowl of pasta, have a smaller portion of the pasta with some grilled meat and roast veg next to it. The difficulty is at present you're eating meals that are almost entirely carbs with a bit of fat. Instead of a baguette, have a sandwich on wholemeal sliced bread. 

I know it's hard but there has to be a bit of give from your family. You've got a medical condition. Unfortunately, that means the onus is on THEM to make a few accommodations. One of the showstoppers I've occasionally pulled out when I've been trying to negotiate with some people is to tell them they're not the one walking round with a dead rotting organ inside them - ok, it's over the top (and not even medically accurate), but sometimes pointing out you essentially have organ failure can make people realise they're being a bit unreasonable about putting their gustatory pleasure before your health.


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## Sprogladite (Feb 16, 2017)

DeusXM said:


> I think perhaps it's less about changing what everyone eats, and more just altering the proportions - for instance, instead of a big bowl of pasta, have a smaller portion of the pasta with some grilled meat and roast veg next to it. The difficulty is at present you're eating meals that are almost entirely carbs with a bit of fat. Instead of a baguette, have a sandwich on wholemeal sliced bread.
> 
> I know it's hard but there has to be a bit of give from your family. You've got a medical condition. Unfortunately, that means the onus is on THEM to make a few accommodations. One of the showstoppers I've occasionally pulled out when I've been trying to negotiate with some people is to tell them they're not the one walking round with a dead rotting organ inside them - ok, it's over the top (and not even medically accurate), but sometimes pointing out you essentially have organ failure can make people realise they're being a bit unreasonable about putting their gustatory pleasure before your health.


Unfortunately I've tried that one already and was told to stop being a drama queen.  I then got upset and told them it was all well and good them doing what they wanted but they aren't facing the prospect of going blind and losing their feet, which isn't dramatic it's fact.  I got rolled eyes in response.

I was thinking about maybe trying soup for lunch today - is there anything I need to avoid/is this a bad idea? Does it depend on the soup?  I had scrambled eggs and a yoghurt for breakfast today but had a hypo about an hour after eating.


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## Northerner (Feb 16, 2017)

Some soups have a high sugar content - I'd check the labels


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## everydayupsanddowns (Feb 16, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Thank you.  It's why I feel I don't have many choices in terms of simplifying my meals currently.  Breakfast and lunch I have more control of as I am in the office when I eat, so maybe I should stick to a fixed dose for the evening and try using breakfast and lunch for working out carb ratios?  If all else fails the parents are going on holiday in early July so I will have a week where I can knuckle down with some simpler meals and hopefully get this nailed. I'd really rather not have to wait that long though!


Just to offer a slightly different point of view to DeusXM's - for the entire time I have been diagnosed I have been eating meals not dissimilar to the ones you describe (pizza, pasta, rice totalling approx 60-70 grams of carbs) and have managed to keep my BG relatively well behaved (largely by a process of trial and error in the early days, but more recenty better results with insulin:carb ratios and factors).

So it IS possible to eat as you are and work out the doses/timings/splits that your body individually needs to get decent BG results.

What you will have already gathered though, is that some meals carry additional difficulty. So you *may* not be able to use the same approach for everything.

Right now you are trying to work out your basic system for most foods and Deus (and others) are suggesting that this is easiest done by avoiding the notoriously tricky things and trying to get yourself more on an even keel by eating fairly boring, predictable things to begin with.

So I would suggest working on your breakfast and lunch as 'Project 1', and your evening meals as 'Project 2'. Use the same approaches for both to start with. If breakfast and lunch are in your complete control you could choose to really reduce the variables for those meals by eating exactly the same thing for a month. There are enough other differences day-to-day without having constantly different meals when you are trying to work things out to begin with. You may not be able to face that idea though! Keep careful notes of what happens after eating. BG before, BG at 1-2 hours, BG at 4 hours. For evening meals you will need to keep more detail and include the type - with pizza this happened... with pasta that happened... rice seemed OK... And then tailor your approach to different evening meals based on previous results when you ate the same thing.

If you have a smartphone you might find a diabetes BG/food tracking app useful for this. Particularly one like mySugr whivh allows you to make notes and search for results by keyword.

You won't get it all 'fixed' immediately (or ever!) but things WILL get better and you WILL be able to crack it. It just takes a bit of stickability and graft.


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## Sprogladite (Feb 16, 2017)

Northerner said:


> Some soups have a high sugar content - I'd check the labels


Thanks @Northerner I will make sure to double check!



everydayupsanddowns said:


> Just to offer a slightly different point of view to DeusXM's - for the entire time I have been diagnosed I have been eating meals not dissimilar to the ones you describe (pizza, pasta, rice totalling approx 60-70 grams of carbs) and have managed to keep my BG relatively well behaved (largely by a process of trial and error in the early days, but more recenty better results with insulin:carb ratios and factors).
> 
> So it IS possible to eat as you are and work out the doses/timings/splits that your body individually needs to get decent BG results.
> 
> ...



Thank you @everydayupsanddowns it is reassuring to hear that it can be done (eventually).  I'm not afraid to do the work it needs   Splitting into two seperate 'projects' makes a lot of sense.  I can deal with eating the same things every day that wouldn't be an issue (I'm more of an eat-coz-I-have-to than a foodie lol).  I am making a ton of notes on everything I'm doing, it's going to be one beast of a spreadsheet I can already see! If I do the 'same food every day' plan, I just need to figure out what I'm going to eat for the indefinite future!


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## Sprogladite (Feb 16, 2017)

Ok, so I had pea and ham soup for lunch, and used the 1.2:10 ratio.  Sugar prior to lunch was 9.2, 2 hours after it is 11.3.  This is the smallest increase post eating so far


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## Northerner (Feb 16, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Ok, so I had pea and ham soup for lunch, and used the 1.2:10 ratio.  Sugar prior to lunch was 9.2, 2 hours after it is 11.3.  This is the smallest increase post eating so far


Things are looking up!  You've got me fancying some pea and ham soup now!


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## Sprogladite (Feb 16, 2017)

Northerner said:


> Things are looking up!  You've got me fancying some pea and ham soup now!


Phew! haha.  How precise does this need to be? I.e should I go up in terms of ratio and try 1.4:10 next as I saw a slight increase?

Looks like I will be having pea and ham soup for lunch for the foreseeable future lol...hopefully I can stomach it every day!


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## everydayupsanddowns (Feb 16, 2017)

I think it's important to look at differences as much as it is the numbers themselves.

You started at 9.2 and rose to 11.3.

Now 11.3 may not be ideal in the long term - it's a little higher than 'perfection', but the rise was only 2.1mmol/L.

A point rise for a meal is brilliant! If you'd started at 5.x you'd have only got up to 7.x before gently pottering down again.

Did you correct at the same time? If so after 4-5 hours you'd ideally want to be somewhere around the 6s. If not you'd want to be around 9 (because the dose would have dealt perfectly with the carbs by the time it stopped working).

Well done - this is great progress!


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## Sprogladite (Feb 16, 2017)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> I think it's important to look at differences as much as it is the numbers themselves.
> 
> You started at 9.2 and rose to 11.3.
> 
> ...



No I didn't do any corrective dose at all, I'm trying to avoid doing them so there's no confusion about whether it's the correction or the ratio that's had the impact.  I'm not 100% sure on my correction ratio either so don't want to guess blindly at that and mess up working out the insulin:carb ratio 

I will do another blood test when I get home tonight, that should be around the 5 hour mark.  Or maybe one on the train but I tend to fall asleep as soon as I sit down on the train these days lol!


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## Sprogladite (Feb 16, 2017)

Just got home and done a test, to my surprise I'm 3.5! Not sure why, and hadn't noticed any symptoms which is very strange for me. Now I know I'm low I've started feeling a tiny bit shaky and maybe a tad grumpy, but that's really odd for me to not be aware of a hypo! I better not be getting sick!


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## everydayupsanddowns (Feb 16, 2017)

Did you have far to walk to/from the train station - that often needs allowing for when I take the train.


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## Sprogladite (Feb 16, 2017)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Did you have far to walk to/from the train station - that often needs allowing for when I take the train.


10-15 min walk so nothing horrendous! And I do it every day with no problems. Weird!


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## everydayupsanddowns (Feb 16, 2017)

Sometimes D just likes to throw in a few curve-balls to keep us on our toes!


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## SB2015 (Feb 16, 2017)

Well done Sprogladite on an improvement in dealing with the carbs.

Once you get your levels more in range you may find that you will need to take account of things like a 15 minute walk.  I need a reduction or jelly baby for that.  As You are finding there are so many factors to take account of,  just keep at it one step at a time, and keep those notes.  
I am nine years  and have just gone back to a weekly log.  Mine includes carbs, BG insulin (basal rate profile as I am on a pump) and any pots about weird foods or activity.  I then take time on a Sunday (during The Archers) to review results, celebrate successes and see if I need to make any changes.  I stopped for a while but found that things became more chaotic, so have returned to record keeping.  It certainly helped me from the early days to sort out ratios.


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## Sprogladite (Feb 16, 2017)

SB2015 said:


> Well done Sprogladite on an improvement in dealing with the carbs.
> 
> Once you get your levels more in range you may find that you will need to take account of things like a 15 minute walk.  I need a reduction or jelly baby for that.  As You are finding there are so many factors to take account of,  just keep at it one step at a time, and keep those notes.
> I am nine years  and have just gone back to a weekly log.  Mine includes carbs, BG insulin (basal rate profile as I am on a pump) and any pots about weird foods or activity.  I then take time on a Sunday (during The Archers) to review results, celebrate successes and see if I need to make any changes.  I stopped for a while but found that things became more chaotic, so have returned to record keeping.  It certainly helped me from the early days to sort out ratios.


Thank you! It's funny, before I wouldn't have even thought about a 15 min walk but I will keep an eye on it going forward. Yes I have a feeling the notes are going to be invaluable in the days to come!


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## KookyCat (Feb 17, 2017)

Great work Sprogladite!  This is starting to look really good (aside from that sneaky hypo).  I understand the issues you're having with your folks, my Mum lives with me and sometimes it's a bit like being ported back to 1982, I have to explain with gritted teeth that I'm not a toddler .  I imagine it's doubly difficult for you because they will think they know how to handle diabetes because they got you through it as a kid, for them to acknowledge a change now would be difficult for them because it implies they might not have done the best for you as a child and all parents want to do the best for their kids however badly that might be expressed.

Having an untested basal requirement will make it more tricky for you, but we can't always do things exactly the way we'd want to.  My basal requirement was a point of contention for 18 months after diagnosis (still is sort of) and I managed to find the right ratios, so whilst it's not ideal it can be done.  You just need to keep in mind that your basal could be off, write everything down and remember that you might have to tweak ratios when you change your basal.  Don't get me wrong in a perfect world basal first every time, but sometimes we just have to work with what we have.  We'll all have different opinions here because we all have different experiences, so keeping that in mind, I didn't go lower carb whilst testing my ratios, I went simple but higher carb than my normal diet, simple and normal carb levels, and then carb and fat combos.  I covered the full range of options because I eat very healthily 90% of the time (I even shock myself sometimes at my desire to eat raw veg!) but then there's the 10% when I don't, I eat the full range of foods, so I wanted to be able to cope with them all, up to and including the slice of Christmas cake I'll inevitably eat, the gingerbread latte I'll want to drink at some point, the whole lot.  I'm not daft, I'm not going to eat cake for lunch every day, or drink 4 gingerbread lattes a day or a week or even a month.  I just wanted to know that I knew how to handle those things.  For me that was a process, so test phase 1 was simple, straightforward meals, when I'd got that down, I moved to phase 2 with higher carb items and some tinkering with ratios, timings etc, then phase 3 also known as the cake phase where I experimented with more volatile carb and fat combos.  The only food item that defeated me, and continues to challenge me is hummus of all things, and it's not even high carb!  The little terror refuses to be controlled, but I am steely and determined, and if I live till I'm 80 I'll still be trying 

I'm rambling now, just wanted to say well done  so far, and don't forget to wash and press that lab coat!


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## Sprogladite (Feb 17, 2017)

Thank you @KookyCat! I will be doing the basal test tomorrow night - don't feel ill at all today so must have been the walk that caused the hypo last night.  When doing the basal test, does it matter what level your sugars are at in the beginning?  Or is it purely the difference in numbers between tests that matter?

EDIT: Nevermind, just read the info previously provided and have found the answer! Lol


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## Sprogladite (Feb 17, 2017)

I had pea and ham soup again for lunch today.  However, my sugar was 4.1 and I was feeling very shaky and like I was already hypo-ing, so decided to take action on that at the same time as having lunch.  Therefore, I did 2 units for the soup (18g carbs) and 2 units for an aero mousse chocolate bar (56g), which I know aren't the best for hypos but they're my favourite lol.  I figured that by under dosing for the chocolate bar I'd come back up to a reasonable level - 2 hours later I am 8.1


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## Kaylz (Feb 17, 2017)

Looks like this carb counting is really coming together and clicking into place well done  sorry to hear you felt a bit off, I had a 4 2 hours after eating the other day and felt a little funny afterwards but didn't treat as I was having lunch an hour later, when I tested again for lunch I was 4.6 although the guys on here tell me I would have been better if I'd popped a jelly baby or a biscuit at 4.0 - lesson learned for next time but no harm done , just remember and be careful on your walk again haha, what's for tea tonight then  x


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## Sprogladite (Feb 17, 2017)

Something a bit easier hopefully! Lol.  Looks like it is going to be sausages, roast potatoes and/or peas and carrots and green beans. I sat down with the parents last night and showed them this thread, and then went on to really exaggerate about retinopathy causing internal bleeding in the eyes...the scare tactics seem to have paid off lol. I have got a bag of jelly babies for the walk tonight so we shall see how that one goes! Lol


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## Kaylz (Feb 17, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Something a bit easier hopefully! Lol.  Looks like it is going to be sausages, roast potatoes and/or peas and carrots and green beans. I sat down with the parents last night and showed them this thread, and then went on to really exaggerate about retinopathy causing internal bleeding in the eyes...the scare tactics seem to have paid off lol. I have got a bag of jelly babies for the walk tonight so we shall see how that one goes! Lol


I'm having sausages too , I'm sorry that it had to come to the scare tactics but at least something has made them realise I'm so happy for you right now, talking about jelly babies I have a pack in the house incase of a hypo but on Tuesday someone on the bus was eating one and it smelt far too sweet so hope I don't run into problems there haha, good luck with your big shop at the weekend, I hope you find plenty tasty things  and keep up with the great work  x


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## Sprogladite (Feb 17, 2017)

Kaylz said:


> I'm having sausages too , I'm sorry that it had to come to the scare tactics but at least something has made them realise I'm so happy for you right now, talking about jelly babies I have a pack in the house incase of a hypo but on Tuesday someone on the bus was eating one and it smelt far too sweet so hope I don't run into problems there haha, good luck with your big shop at the weekend, I hope you find plenty tasty things  and keep up with the great work  x


Thank you so much,  I really appreciate the kind words and support!  I honestly think coming to this forum might be one of the best things I've ever done  haha hopefully no problems will occur, sometimes temptation is the hardest part of diabetes!  My office are awful, we have had sweets in the office every day except today (because I threw a tantrum about it lol) - when I say sweets, things like Krispy Kremes, 4 different kinds of chocolate biscuits, chocolate brownies, the list goes on.  Very pleased with myself that I managed to hold out and refrain from eating any, I'm not usually so disciplined!  Just so determined to get this sorted out once and for all!


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## Sprogladite (Feb 17, 2017)

Just done the 4 hour test and BG is 6.9


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## Kaylz (Feb 17, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Thank you so much,  I really appreciate the kind words and support!  I honestly think coming to this forum might be one of the best things I've ever done  haha hopefully no problems will occur, sometimes temptation is the hardest part of diabetes!  My office are awful, we have had sweets in the office every day except today (because I threw a tantrum about it lol) - when I say sweets, things like Krispy Kremes, 4 different kinds of chocolate biscuits, chocolate brownies, the list goes on.  Very pleased with myself that I managed to hold out and refrain from eating any, I'm not usually so disciplined!  Just so determined to get this sorted out once and for all!


I've had a craving for a doughnut for a while but I'm not giving in, I did give in to a chocolate eclair after tea tonight though which btw is one of the best choices for 'us' just so you know in case you do fancy a little treat - Tesco 4 pack are only 12g carbs each, well done for sticking at it though  and congrats on the 4 hour test - I tested lunch today too 5.4 before, 5.8 2 hours later and 6.8 4.5 hours later so not too bad either, we can do this rigorous testing together haha  x


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## Sprogladite (Feb 17, 2017)

Kaylz said:


> I've had a craving for a doughnut for a while but I'm not giving in, I did give in to a chocolate eclair after tea tonight though which btw is one of the best choices for 'us' just so you know in case you do fancy a little treat - Tesco 4 pack are only 12g carbs each, well done for sticking at it though  and congrats on the 4 hour test - I tested lunch today too 5.4 before, 5.8 2 hours later and 6.8 4.5 hours later so not too bad either, we can do this rigorous testing together haha  x


Oh that is good to know, thanks!  I will be so pleased if I get anywhere close to your numbers!! I realised this morning my finger sticker thingy was set to 3mm and that's why my poor fingers are so sore...lol woops!  Turned it back down so hopefully it won't be so bad going forward.  Haha rigorous testing together sounds like a plan!  We can turn it into a competition lol (I am horribly competitive...haha!)


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## Kaylz (Feb 17, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Oh that is good to know, thanks!  I will be so pleased if I get anywhere close to your numbers!! I realised this morning my finger sticker thingy was set to 3mm and that's why my poor fingers are so sore...lol woops!  Turned it back down so hopefully it won't be so bad going forward.  Haha rigorous testing together sounds like a plan!  We can turn it into a competition lol (I am horribly competitive...haha!)


Even though it's a simple finger pricker I love how we all refer to it as a 'thingy' haha, my fingers aren't too bad at the moment for once  and now now I never said anything about it being a competition  x


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## SB2015 (Feb 17, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Just done the 4 hour test and BG is 6.9


Well done.
This is great progress.

Hope the fasting test goes well over the weekend and glad that you have had a good discussion with your parents.


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## trophywench (Feb 17, 2017)

I use orange Lucozade for hypos - if I'm 'well' hypo - I have difficulty chewing or swallowing - hence a drink is a better choice.  Also - I'm never tempted to just have a swig of it when I'm nort hypo - far too sweet and counterproductive if I happen to be thirsty - shooting my BG up into  the stratosphere ain't exactly  the best plan to quench my thirst, now is it?

However if there was a bag of jelly babies, esp an OPEN packet of them - in the house they'd all be wailing 'Mummy Mummy - eat me!' at me incessantly, and I'd never get any peace until I did it !  You know, don't you, what happens when you say - 'Well - I'll just have the one - one won't hurt me, will it?'  Fatal !


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## Sprogladite (Feb 20, 2017)

Frustrating weekend.  Sugars were erratic on the weekend and I wasn't feeling too well.  Ended up having a hypo at 1am during the fasting test and had to cancel.  Then had a migraine on Sunday and really struggled to eat at all so again sugars were loopy.  Surfaced from the migraine in time to have dinner last night - chicken, asparagus and gnocchi - I was 11.7 before, and 11.3 2 hours after. I went back to bed at that point, I had had enough lol.  Frustrated I couldn't complete the test, will try on Friday night instead of Saturday this week so I have another day to try in case it goes wrong again.

That being said, my waking sugars have been very good, so that's one thing - 5.5 this morning!


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## Sprogladite (Feb 20, 2017)

Ok i have another question!  I typically eat breakfast at 9:30am once I've got to work in the week, and then have lunch between 12:30 - 1:00pm.  I'm eating lunch before the 4 hour mark after breakfast - does this mean I'm likely to still have active insulin on board?  If so, do I need to take this into account when dosing for my lunch?  

Breakfast went well from what I can see - 9.9 before (had risen from 5.5 by the time I got to work) that's now 12.1 2 hours later.


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## Kaylz (Feb 20, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Ok i have another question!  I typically eat breakfast at 9:30am once I've got to work in the week, and then have lunch between 12:30 - 1:00pm.  I'm eating lunch before the 4 hour mark after breakfast - does this mean I'm likely to still have active insulin on board?  If so, do I need to take this into account when dosing for my lunch?
> 
> Breakfast went well from what I can see - 9.9 before (had risen from 5.5 by the time I got to work) that's now 12.1 2 hours later.


What kind or rapid acting are you on, I have breakfast at 8:30 then lunch around 11:30 and still have rapid insulin on board, it really depends on what your lunch carb total comes to x


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## Sprogladite (Feb 20, 2017)

Kaylz said:


> What kind or rapid acting are you on, I have breakfast at 8:30 then lunch around 11:30 and still have rapid insulin on board, it really depends on what your lunch carb total comes to x



I'm on novorapid.  3 hours after breakfast sugar level is 8.4 so it's gone down!


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## Kaylz (Feb 20, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> I'm on novorapid.  3 hours after breakfast sugar level is 8.4 so it's gone down!


So are you away to have your lunch now, I wouldn't be over cautious and lower the insulin I usually have just under 30g carbs for my breakfast and as I'm using a 1:10 i have 3 units for that, lunch is usually around 38-39g carbs so I take 4 with that and bearing in mind I still have a little insulin on board I've never ran into any problems, I seem to be having a bad day today woke to a 7.3, 3 hours later I was 8.7 I did get a little stressed though, check in an hour and 10 mins for me as I had a bar of chocolate with my lunch x


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## Sprogladite (Feb 20, 2017)

Kaylz said:


> So are you away to have your lunch now, I wouldn't be over cautious and lower the insulin I usually have just under 30g carbs for my breakfast and as I'm using a 1:10 i have 3 units for that, lunch is usually around 38-39g carbs so I take 4 with that and bearing in mind I still have a little insulin on board I've never ran any problems, I seem to be having a bad day today woke to a 7.3, 3 hours later I was 8.7 I did get a little stressed though, check in an hour and 10 mins for me as I had a bar of chocolate with my lunch x



I'm about to head out, in maybe 5 mins.  Back on the pea and ham soup today which is only 18g carbs so will only be a tiny dose.  I suspect I might be coming down with something, feeling rather grotty today


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## Kaylz (Feb 20, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> I'm about to head out, in maybe 5 mins.  Back on the pea and ham soup today which is only 18g carbs so will only be a tiny dose.  I suspect I might be coming down with something, feeling rather grotty today


Oh no that's not so good, hope it doesn't come to anything and you feel better soon , your putting me right in the mood for some pea and ham soup as it's not the first time you've mentioned it, I think I know what will be for lunch tomorrow haha x


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## Sprogladite (Feb 20, 2017)

Kaylz said:


> Oh no that's not so good, hope it doesn't come to anything and you feel better soon , your putting me right in the mood for some pea and ham soup as it's not the first time you've mentioned it, I think I know what will be for lunch tomorrow haha x


Haha I'm getting sick of it!  But eating it every day is helping me figure this thing out so I'll put up with it for now before I start making things more complicated lol!


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## Sprogladite (Feb 20, 2017)

Just tested 2 hours after lunch, I'm at 6.2 (from 8.4).  Just pleased to be in single figures at this point lol!


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## Kaylz (Feb 20, 2017)

My 2 hour post meal was 5.5 from 8.7 but it will be because of the fat in my chocolate bar, I've got to do tea myself tonight as mum is working so my grandad will be pestering me with are you not putting the sausages in the oven yet, are you not putting the peas on (doing it later tonight so it's just getting put out for when mum gets in the door but grandad likes it basically bang on half 4) so I'm kinda expecting a higher reading haha  glad your seeing numbers like this seems like your getting the right hang of it now  x


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## Sprogladite (Feb 20, 2017)

Kaylz said:


> My 2 hour post meal was 5.5 from 8.7 but it will be because of the fat in my chocolate bar, I've got to do tea myself tonight as mum is working so my grandad will be pestering me with are you not putting the sausages in the oven yet, are you not putting the peas on (doing it later tonight so it's just getting put out for when mum gets in the door but grandad likes it basically bang on half 4) so I'm kinda expecting a higher reading haha  glad your seeing numbers like this seems like your getting the right hang of it now  x


Lol well I have the hang of pea and ham soup...maybe I'll start adding things like yogurt to see how it goes with something more complicated haha  Lol you saying that has reminded me I had better check to see what is on the menu for dinner tonight...thanks to the migraine on Sunday I didn't get to go to the supermarket but I did manage to drag my mum to the Tesco express round the corner where we found a few bits.  I never knew couscous was so (comparatively) low in carbs! I also learnt that gnocchi is made from potatoes! Haha! Good luck for tonight, I'll cross my fingers for you - let me know how you get on and we can compare results lol


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## Kaylz (Feb 20, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Lol well I have the hang of pea and ham soup...maybe I'll start adding things like yogurt to see how it goes with something more complicated haha  Lol you saying that has reminded me I had better check to see what is on the menu for dinner tonight...thanks to the migraine on Sunday I didn't get to go to the supermarket but I did manage to drag my mum to the Tesco express round the corner where we found a few bits.  I never knew couscous was so (comparatively) low in carbs! I also learnt that gnocchi is made from potatoes! Haha! Good luck for tonight, I'll cross my fingers for you - let me know how you get on and we can compare results lol


I've never even tried cous cous, that's him just walked in the door now (I'm sure I can feel my levels rising already) haha he's away for a shower (he only has a bath in his house and finds it difficult getting in and out due to his hip replacement the other year) please keep everything crossed for me haha and don't criticise my weird choices but tonight I'm having pork and leek sausages, 2 yorkies, petits pois, gravy and some coleslaw (yes you read that right gravy and coleslaw on the same plate)  x


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## Sprogladite (Feb 20, 2017)

Kaylz said:


> I've never even tried cous cous, that's him just walked in the door now (I'm sure I can feel my levels rising already) haha he's away for a shower (he only has a bath in his house and finds it difficult getting in and out due to his hip replacement the other year) please keep everything crossed for me haha and don't criticise my weird choices but tonight I'm having pork and leek sausages, 2 yorkies, petits pois, gravy and some coleslaw (yes you read that right gravy and coleslaw on the same plate)  x


Haha you're talking to someone who ate cheese and onion crisps dipped in salad cream when I was pregnant...no judgement here!!


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## trophywench (Feb 20, 2017)

Novorapid is at its most active peak between 1 and 2 hours see graph  http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/info/?page_id=408

After 3 hours it still is fairly active and may 'run out' any time between 4 and 6 hours.  For me personally - it lasts up to 4.5 hours but honestly, were my BG anything over 5 at the getting on for 4 hours mark - I'd just leave it and say none left.  Were my BG 4.1 at that stage however, then I'd knock a smidge off my bolus (well I would anyway with a 4.1 even if it was 11 hours since a had it)  So for me anyway, it starts about 10 mins after jabbing it and lasts a tad longer than 3.5 hours actually doing anything much.  After that for an hour, it's still there a gnat's whisker.

I've been using the stuff since 1998 though and nobody could expect you to know stuff like this after the first 5 minutes so I wouldn't think about it too much - and certainly until you know whether your basal keeps you steady in the background - you can't possibly nail it all down properly anyway.  What you are looking for at the moment is, does the Novorapid bring me down to what it was just after 4 hours ago, and that's that.

Not sure what sort of place you work, but - can you not vary your lunch hour - even just occasionally for something special - like going without eating lunch for an extra hour or eat something not messy, at your desk?  Or do without breakfast entirely and do the morning basal test at work?


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## trophywench (Feb 20, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Haha you're talking to someone who ate cheese and onion crisps dipped in salad cream when I was pregnant...no judgement here!!



Well considering I used to adore salad cream sandwiches as a child (since 'adultery' I've given them up and  anyway, mayo just isn't as nice on  a sandwich LOL) and I still love a crisp sandwich - I don't consider that odd at all.  However - MacRae kipper fillets with a strawberry jam sandwich (one of first husband's aunties) even when pregnant, is exceedingly weird !


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## Kaylz (Feb 20, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Haha you're talking to someone who ate cheese and onion crisps dipped in salad cream when I was pregnant...no judgement here!!


Ermm there's nothing wrong with that I used to be quite bad for having just salad cream between 2 slices of bread and even worse when I was a kid I could eat an onion like it was an apple literally stand and just bite chunks out of it  x


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## Kaylz (Feb 20, 2017)

trophywench said:


> Well considering I used to adore salad cream sandwiches as a child (since 'adultery' I've given them up and  anyway, mayo just isn't as nice on  a sandwich LOL) and I still love a crisp sandwich - I don't consider that odd at all.  However - MacRae kipper fillets with a strawberry jam sandwich (one of first husband's aunties) even when pregnant, is exceedingly weird !


Omg I just can't believe you said that at basically the same time, I'm glad I'm not the only one that ate salad cream sandwiches haha  x


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## Sprogladite (Feb 20, 2017)

trophywench said:


> Novorapid is at its most active peak between 1 and 2 hours see graph  http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/info/?page_id=408
> I've been using the stuff since 1998 though and nobody could expect you to know stuff like this after the first 5 minutes so I wouldn't think about it too much - and certainly until you know whether your basal keeps you steady in the background - you can't possibly nail it all down properly anyway.  What you are looking for at the moment is, does the Novorapid bring me down to what it was just after 4 hours ago, and that's that.
> Not sure what sort of place you work, but - can you not vary your lunch hour - even just occasionally for something special - like going without eating lunch for an extra hour or eat something not messy, at your desk?  Or do without breakfast entirely and do the morning basal test at work?



Thank you @trophywench that's pretty much the basis I am operating on at the moment.  I work at a recruitment firm, it goes through manic and dead phases - at the moment we are in a manic phase so I'm not sure I could give this the attention it needs while I am at work and I'd much rather just do it once and do it properly (notwithstanding that I might need to make adjustments and do it again!).  I can vary my lunch hour.  Unfortunately I'm pretty sure there is a starving child living in my stomach and I really really struggle to make it to 1pm lol!


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## Sprogladite (Feb 20, 2017)

Lol I never ate salad cream sandwiches! Maybe that's why I think it's weird hahaha!


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## Kaylz (Feb 20, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Lol I never ate salad cream sandwiches! Maybe that's why I think it's weird hahaha!


They were delish haha well my post meal was 7.0, higher than I like but not too bad x


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## KookyCat (Feb 20, 2017)

Sounds like it's going pretty well sprogladite!  Glad it seems to be coming together.  Go on, try a bit of yoghurt, it'll be fun (honest ).  For me the novorapid is done and dusted at the three hour mark but I'm told that's because I'm a sensitive little flower , but like TW I'd just knock a bit off my next bolus if I was below 5.  I think you're doing really well considering how frustrated you were last week, you should be proud of yourself


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## trophywench (Feb 21, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Unfortunately I'm pretty sure there is a starving child living in my stomach and I really really struggle to make it to 1pm lol!



My starving child disappeared about 1980 and hasn't been seen or heard of since.  I can't recall having had a hunger pangs since my childhood, truth to tell.

Do you eat protein for brekkie? - I ask cos it automatically 'fills you up' and that satisfied feeling lasts a lot longer, than if you eat carbs, eg cereal or toast.  Big fat frittata made at the weekend, throw in what the heck you want - ham, bacon, other cooked meat, any veg you want, whatever you fancy - cut it into wedges and have a slice every day.  You can put  it in Tupperware and stick in the fridge at work, if you don't want it left at home.

Or - eg cheese and boiled ham - and just not involve 'home' at all.


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## Sprogladite (Feb 21, 2017)

trophywench said:


> My starving child disappeared about 1980 and hasn't been seen or heard of since.  I can't recall having had a hunger pangs since my childhood, truth to tell.
> 
> Do you eat protein for brekkie? - I ask cos it automatically 'fills you up' and that satisfied feeling lasts a lot longer, than if you eat carbs, eg cereal or toast.  Big fat frittata made at the weekend, throw in what the heck you want - ham, bacon, other cooked meat, any veg you want, whatever you fancy - cut it into wedges and have a slice every day.  You can put  it in Tupperware and stick in the fridge at work, if you don't want it left at home.
> 
> Or - eg cheese and boiled ham - and just not involve 'home' at all.



Yes I've switched from cereal (which I now know is bad) to scrambled eggs with ham for breakfast in the mornings.  Unfortunately it hasn't done anything to stave off the starving child lol!


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## Sprogladite (Feb 21, 2017)

Hypo this morning after breakfast and still feeling ropey today.  Will have to keep an eye on the sugars, have already had a hypo which is odd for me, I tend to have them after lunch if I have them at all!

EDIT: clearly my brain hasn't switched back on yet from the hypo, I try to avoid repeating myself usually haha!


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## Sprogladite (Feb 21, 2017)

I had a yoghurt with lunch today. Confession time, I was an idiot.  Wasn't wearing my glasses and totally missed a decimal point (as in, I thought there was one there but there wasn't) so severely under dosed and now my sugar is 14.0.  I guess it's a good lesson on paying attention but I'm pretty annoyed at myself! I'm also starting to have nightmares about pea and ham soup lol...


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## Sprogladite (Feb 21, 2017)

Sugar 4 hours after eating is 11.1 (from 10.2 before lunch) so that's not too bad.  Does it matter how high I go before the 4 hour mark if I've come back down to within a point or two by 4 hours?


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## Kaylz (Feb 21, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Sugar 4 hours after eating is 11.1 (from 10.2 before lunch) so that's not too bad.  Does it matter how high I go before the 4 hour mark if I've come back down to within a point or two by 4 hours?


I believe that there is to be no more than a 2/3 mmol rise at the 2 hour mark but I may be wrong someone with much more experience will no doubt be along to help soon  x


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## Robin (Feb 21, 2017)

Kaylz said:


> I believe that there is to be no more than a 2/3 mmol rise at the 2 hour mark but I may be wrong someone with much more experience will no doubt be along to help soon  x


Yes, that's right, Kaylz, it's what we are aiming for, (but sometimes it's easier said than done!)


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## Kaylz (Feb 21, 2017)

Robin said:


> Yes, that's right, Kaylz, it's what we are aiming for, (but sometimes it's easier said than done!)


Yay I'm learning haha  x


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## Radders (Feb 21, 2017)

Kaylz said:


> I believe that there is to be no more than a 2/3 mmol rise at the 2 hour mark but I may be wrong someone with much more experience will no doubt be along to help soon  x


Nobody has ever told me that officially! And I very, very, very rarely manage it.


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## Kaylz (Feb 22, 2017)

Hey @Sprogladite how you doing today notice you haven't checked in x


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## Sprogladite (Feb 23, 2017)

Hey! Had my appointment with the nurse this morning.  I had a breakdown of my hba1c's over the year - 12 months ago it was 107, went down to 73, then 57, and am currently at 56 so quite pleased with that considering where I started from.  I'm hoping the carb counting will help to get this down that little bit more.
I've had a couple of bad hypos upon waking; ironically both times was after eating pasta (and after having my sugars only 1-2 higher after 4 hours! Yay!) and then I went low overnight.  The lady I saw this morning was a practice nurse rather than the DN (which I was surprised about, I thought I was seeing the DN).  I am being referred to the DN care team so they can take me through carb counting/discuss options for doing the DAFNE course.
Meal times are going well, I think I pretty much have "simple" meals nailed now, it's time to start being more adventurous lol


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## grovesy (Feb 23, 2017)

Well done.


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## Sprogladite (Feb 23, 2017)

grovesy said:


> Well done.


Thank you!


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## Northerner (Feb 23, 2017)

Good to hear!


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## Ljc (Feb 23, 2017)

Well done, it's good to hear your going on a DAFNE course , that will help you a lot.


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## Kaylz (Feb 23, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Hey! Had my appointment with the nurse this morning.  I had a breakdown of my hba1c's over the year - 12 months ago it was 107, went down to 73, then 57, and am currently at 56 so quite pleased with that considering where I started from.  I'm hoping the carb counting will help to get this down that little bit more.
> I've had a couple of bad hypos upon waking; ironically both times was after eating pasta (and after having my sugars only 1-2 higher after 4 hours! Yay!) and then I went low overnight.  The lady I saw this morning was a practice nurse rather than the DN (which I was surprised about, I thought I was seeing the DN).  I am being referred to the DN care team so they can take me through carb counting/discuss options for doing the DAFNE course.
> Meal times are going well, I think I pretty much have "simple" meals nailed now, it's time to start being more adventurous lol


Well done  and wow that's fantastic news so happy for you  x


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## Sprogladite (Feb 23, 2017)

Thank you everyone I really appreciate your support and help through all of this  I am having more bloods done in 3 months so hopefully I will be reporting another improvement then!


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## Sprogladite (Feb 26, 2017)

Ok guys so I attempted the basal fasting test last night.  I had dinner at 7pm, my sugar was 7.2 before and I did my lantus at 11pm as usual. Results follow:

9:00pm - 10.5
10:00pm - 10.6
10:30pm - 10.3
11:00pm - 10.9
1:00am - 8.7
3:00am - 5.3
5:00am - 3.2

Test ended at 5am when I corrected the hypo...


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## Kaylz (Feb 26, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Ok guys so I attempted the basal fasting test last night.  I had dinner at 7pm, my sugar was 7.2 before and I did my lantus at 11pm as usual. Results follow:
> 
> 9:00pm - 10.5
> 10:00pm - 10.6
> ...


Sorry to hear you had to give up because of a hypo, hope your not feeling too bad today hun x


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## Sprogladite (Feb 26, 2017)

Just tired and a bit of a headache, could be worse  I'm thinking I might be doing too much. If I'm going hypo in the early hours and my liver is dumping glucose it would explain a lot - I always feel terrible in the mornings and my sugar level rises a lot on my way to work, if it's coz I've hypo'd an hour or two before waking and my liver has glucosed me up then that would explain a lot. I'll do the test again next weekend and see if I get similar results. I had to call the test off last weekend too because of a hypo!


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## Kaylz (Feb 26, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Just tired and a bit of a headache, could be worse  I'm thinking I might be doing too much. If I'm going hypo in the early hours and my liver is dumping glucose it would explain a lot - I always feel terrible in the mornings and my sugar level rises a lot on my way to work, if it's coz I've hypo'd an hour or two before waking and my liver has glucosed me up then that would explain a lot. I'll do the test again next weekend and see if I get similar results. I had to call the test off last weekend too because of a hypo!


Damn your hypo's girl lol, I tested my lunch today 5.3 before, 2 hours later - 8.4, 4 hours later - 6.7, not sure if it's a true reflection on the effects of lunch or the cat getting ill again mid test , test meal out again huh lol x


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## DropShot (Feb 27, 2017)

I suggest reading "The Case Against Sugar" by Gary Taubes. It is the most informative read on why we get obese and diabetes that I have seen in 40 years of study on the subject


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## silentsquirrel (Feb 27, 2017)

DropShot said:


> I suggest reading "The Case Against Sugar" by Gary Taubes. It is the most informative read on why we get obese and diabetes that I have seen in 40 years of study on the subject



Hi Dropshot, welcome to the forum!  You might like to introduce yourself in your own thread in the Newbies section - what type of diabetes do you have?
Your comment isn't really relevant to this thread, as Sprogladite has Type 1, not Type 2.


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## Sprogladite (Feb 27, 2017)

DropShot said:


> I suggest reading "The Case Against Sugar" by Gary Taubes. It is the most informative read on why we get obese and diabetes that I have seen in 40 years of study on the subject


Whilst I appreciate the sentiment, this is completely irrelevant to me.  I am not obese, and never have been.  There is a *significant* difference between type 1 and type 2 diabetes.  Type 1 is an autoimmune condition.  Type 2 is largely regarded as a metabolic disorder, although I believe this is currently being examined as to whether it should be reclassified as autoimmune. They are two separate conditions, and require separate care.  The lumping together of type 1 and type 2 diabetics is one of my major 'red flag' triggers...can you tell? Lol.  But I won't be reading the book.  I have enough research gumpf to be getting on with for my own condition!


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## Kaylz (Feb 27, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Whilst I appreciate the sentiment, this is completely irrelevant to me.  I am not obese, and never have been.  There is a *significant* difference between type 1 and type 2 diabetes.  Type 1 is an autoimmune condition.  Type 2 is largely regarded as a metabolic disorder, although I believe this is currently being examined as to whether it should be reclassified as autoimmune. They are two separate conditions, and require separate care.  The lumping together of type 1 and type 2 diabetics is one of my major 'red flag' triggers...can you tell? Lol.  But I won't be reading the book.  I have enough research gumpf to be getting on with for my own condition!


I neglected to reply to that comment as it really wound me up x


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## everydayupsanddowns (Feb 27, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Ok guys so I attempted the basal fasting test last night.  I had dinner at 7pm, my sugar was 7.2 before and I did my lantus at 11pm as usual. Results follow:
> 
> 9:00pm - 10.5
> 10:00pm - 10.6
> ...



Hmmmm... Interesting @Sprogladite - and could have been my own results back in the day!

Your evening meal dose looks pretty good and you were close(ish) to where you started by the time the meal dose had finished, a little higher perhaps, but not a disaster by any means.

The 'perfect' version of those overnight results might have seen you drop to the mid-high 6's at 3am and then probablt flattened off or even raised a little by 5am. But you kept on dropping right down into hypo territory. 

It might be good to see if this pattern repeats before making any changes.

But...

My own experience was that when I took Lantus at bedtime, as was suggested to me, the mini-peak that Lantus has in its activity profile (around 5 hours after injecting) tended to co-incide with the point overnight when my cortisol production naturally dips and my BGs were likely to be lowest.

When I changed my Lantus dose to breakfast time I found I had lots less trouble with overnight lows. I just needed to keep an eye on post-breakfast levels a bit more as my Lantus dose took a while to get going.

Hope you find some answers for your puzzle soon!


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## Sprogladite (Feb 27, 2017)

Kaylz said:


> I neglected to reply to that comment as it really wound me up x


Lol me too, I try to abide by the 'if you have nothing nice to say' rule but sometimes something just needs to be said!!



everydayupsanddowns said:


> Hmmmm... Interesting @Sprogladite - and could have been my own results back in the day!
> 
> Your evening meal dose looks pretty good and you were close(ish) to where you started by the time the meal dose had finished, a little higher perhaps, but not a disaster by any means.
> 
> ...



Thank you! I have noticed since doing this that I have been having a lot of hypos first thing in the morning (last couple of days have been in the low 2's).  In my previous attempt at the basal test I had a hypo then too - perhaps I am having a similar situation to you.  I will do the test once more just to make sure, and go from there.  If I go into another hypo on the next test, I will give some serious thought to switching to morning and then retesting before fiddling with the dosage.  I'll keep you posted!


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## Kaylz (Mar 2, 2017)

@Sprogladite how's things going you've been very quiet the past few days hope everything is ok  x


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## Sprogladite (Mar 2, 2017)

Kaylz said:


> @Sprogladite how's things going you've been very quiet the past few days hope everything is ok  x


Yes all good thanks! I've come to the conclusion my ratio is definitely 1.4:10 and I seem to be fine with 100g portions of cooked pasta but if I go more than that I run into trouble.  I've been having a lot of hypos either in the middle of the night or upon waking up so I suspect my basal isn't right.  I'm going to repeat the fasting basal on Saturday just so I can say I've tried it a few times with the same results, and then will likely try switching that to the mornings and retesting.  I've also had a letter through for being referred to the DN care team, I just need to call and make an appointment  BGs have been much more stable in the day, haven't been flinging between too low to too high and back again which is nice! Just need to get the basal spot on and I think we will be in a good place!  x


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## Sprogladite (Mar 2, 2017)

I'm struggling with thinking up different things for lunch, I seem to be stuck on soup lol.  So if anyone has any suggestions feel free to chime in!


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## Kaylz (Mar 2, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> I'm struggling with thinking up different things for lunch, I seem to be stuck on soup lol.  So if anyone has any suggestions feel free to chime in!


I generally have a sandwich for lunch, try a chicken salad or something along those lines, I had my first hypo yesterday  x


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## Sprogladite (Mar 2, 2017)

Kaylz said:


> I generally have a sandwich for lunch, try a chicken salad or something along those lines, I had my first hypo yesterday  x


I haven't braved bread yet...lol.  Maybe I will try that one next!  Oh dear, how bad was the hypo?  I still remember my first one, it was a shocking experience! I hope it wasn't too bad!


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## Kaylz (Mar 2, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> I haven't braved bread yet...lol.  Maybe I will try that one next!  Oh dear, how bad was the hypo?  I still remember my first one, it was a shocking experience! I hope it wasn't too bad!


I don't want to put you off bread but I had a roll for my lunch yesterday it was sitting at 3 so had 3 jelly sweets, 3.8, had another one - 3.7 so had another - 6.6 then shot up to 12.3 by tea got down to 7.5 for bed though, felt awful the headache was so bad and I felt so tired - first time I've gotten to sleep so quick since starting insulin, think I should have just went with 4 sweets in a go then maybe I would have been high enough I will know to try that first next time, I'm the opposite to you I haven't plucked up the courage to try pasta yet haha x


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## BBarb (Mar 2, 2017)

They say you can get some high protein rolls in Lidl, but as we haven't got a Lidl within sensible driving range from here I haven't tried them.  We have Bergen bread which is supposed to be better than most but I haven't tried using it as a sandwich as yet, just one slice of toast in a morning.


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## Jeandp (Mar 3, 2017)

trophywench said:


> My starving child disappeared about 1980 and hasn't been seen or heard of since.  I can't recall having had a hunger pangs since my childhood, truth to tell.
> 
> Do you eat protein for brekkie? - I ask cos it automatically 'fills you up' and that satisfied feeling lasts a lot longer, than if you eat carbs, eg cereal or toast.  Big fat frittata made at the weekend, throw in what the heck you want - ham, bacon, other cooked meat, any veg you want, whatever you fancy - cut it into wedges and have a slice every day.  You can put  it in Tupperware and stick in the fridge at work, if you don't want it left at home.
> 
> Or - eg cheese and boiled ham - and just not involve 'home' at all.


Frittata, top tip, thank you @trophywench


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## Sprogladite (Mar 3, 2017)

BBarb said:


> They say you can get some high protein rolls in Lidl, but as we haven't got a Lidl within sensible driving range from here I haven't tried them.  We have Bergen bread which is supposed to be better than most but I haven't tried using it as a sandwich as yet, just one slice of toast in a morning.


Thank you, I have a Lidl fairly close to me so I will have a look!  What is Bergen bread? I've never heard of it!



Kaylz said:


> I don't want to put you off bread but I had a roll for my lunch yesterday it was sitting at 3 so had 3 jelly sweets, 3.8, had another one - 3.7 so had another - 6.6 then shot up to 12.3 by tea got down to 7.5 for bed though, felt awful the headache was so bad and I felt so tired - first time I've gotten to sleep so quick since starting insulin, think I should have just went with 4 sweets in a go then maybe I would have been high enough I will know to try that first next time, I'm the opposite to you I haven't plucked up the courage to try pasta yet haha x


Sorry you had a rough experience @Kaylz but don't worry, it gets easier with time  Even a level of 12 wouldn't overly concern me...because I've run high for so long I only really get concerned when I go over 20 (and even then it's a roll my eyes & reach for the insulin reaction lol) - I know I should be more concerned but I think I've just become desensitised to the severity of it over the years. I do find I tend to swing a little bit high post hypo, I am really awful for overcompensating (I tend to go on the 'I don't feel better yet' theory, which I know is wrong, but I really struggle to override my instincts and not eat everything in sight lol!).  Hopefully for your next one you wont have such a tricky one to deal with!


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## Sprogladite (Mar 3, 2017)

Ironic I posted this morning that a reading of 12 wouldn't bother me lol.  I've spent the day swinging between 10 & 15, lowest I've managed to go is 9.9 so far.  Not feeling wonderful, have had a cracking headache all day, wonder if this is why?  I don't think I'm "sick" as such but feeling quite stressed out. Did a correction dose 2 hours ago that took me from 15 to 9.9, hoping the walk to the train station will bring this down some more.  I've got some fruit pastilles on hand in case I plummet into a hypo on the train...I have been a superhero  in resisting the office sweets today, there's chocolate brownies, cupcakes and mini rolls today and I'm honestly getting emotional that I can't eat any of them lol. Stupid body.


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## Kaylz (Mar 3, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Ironic I posted this morning that a reading of 12 wouldn't bother me lol.  I've spent the day swinging between 10 & 15, lowest I've managed to go is 9.9 so far.  Not feeling wonderful, have had a cracking headache all day, wonder if this is why?  I don't think I'm "sick" as such but feeling quite stressed out. Did a correction dose 2 hours ago that took me from 15 to 9.9, hoping the walk to the train station will bring this down some more.  I've got some fruit pastilles on hand in case I plummet into a hypo on the train...I have been a superhero  in resisting the office sweets today, there's chocolate brownies, cupcakes and mini rolls today and I'm honestly getting emotional that I can't eat any of them lol. Stupid body.


When you feel comfortable with carb counting and feel you have your ratio correct there is nothing to stop you having a mini roll or anything as long as you know the carbs and add it on to whatever you are having and cover it, sorry to hear you aren't having great readings but try and chill out as we all know stress doesn't help our levels any, hope you feel better soon  x


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## Lucy Honeychurch (Mar 3, 2017)

Yes, stress plays havoc with my levels too.


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## Sprogladite (Mar 3, 2017)

Kaylz said:


> When you feel comfortable with carb counting and feel you have your ratio correct there is nothing to stop you having a mini roll or anything as long as you know the carbs and add it on to whatever you are having and cover it, sorry to hear you aren't having great readings but try and chill out as we all know stress doesn't help our levels any, hope you feel better soon  x


Lol thank you, I'm going to consider that as "the light at the end of the tunnel" lol.  I'll be reattempting the fasting basal test tomorrow if my sugars stabilise tonight...going to go home and do my best impression of a vegetable (a relaxed one...lol!) x


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## Sprogladite (Mar 3, 2017)

Lucy Honeychurch said:


> Yes, stress plays havoc with my levels too.


How do you cope with it @Lucy Honeychurch? Do you just monitor and correct as needed?


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## Kaylz (Mar 3, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Lol thank you, I'm going to consider that as "the light at the end of the tunnel" lol.  I'll be reattempting the fasting basal test tomorrow if my sugars stabilise tonight...going to go home and do my best impression of a vegetable (a relaxed one...lol!) x


Hold on I'll be back with a relaxation thing that was suggested to me after my hypo the other day 2 mins  x


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## Kaylz (Mar 3, 2017)

his is what I was taught at relaxation classes to help, amongst other symptoms, get rid of headaches:- lie down on your bed; sofa; or floor. Lie on your back, cover yourself with duvet or throw. Hands on your tum, slowly inhale a deep breath. ..hold it for a few secs ...then breathe out slowly. Repeat this several times. (As many times as you wish) til you feel totally relaxed. The breathing exercises should help you to relax & ease your hypo anxiety & your headache. You might actually fall asleep! Before you stand up (slowly now)** make sure you have a thick Cardigan or jumper handy to wear ( **I should have said this earlier- sorry) because you might feel a little cold when your relaxation exercise regime is finished. NB. If for any reason you have been advised against doing any of the above, then please adhere to that advice. this was courtesy of @wirralass, hope you don't mind me passing it on hun  x


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## Lucy Honeychurch (Mar 3, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> How do you cope with it @Lucy Honeychurch? Do you just monitor and correct as needed?



Basically yes and hope for the best! Having one of those days today as a family member is having surgery, felt sick since I got up, waiting to hear


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## Sprogladite (Mar 3, 2017)

Lucy Honeychurch said:


> Basically yes and hope for the best! Having one of those days today as a family member is having surgery, felt sick since I got up, waiting to hear


Oh no I hope it all goes well! Fingers crossed for you x


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## Sprogladite (Mar 3, 2017)

Kaylz said:


> his is what I was taught at relaxation classes to help, amongst other symptoms, get rid of headaches:- lie down on your bed; sofa; or floor. Lie on your back, cover yourself with duvet or throw. Hands on your tum, slowly inhale a deep breath. ..hold it for a few secs ...then breathe out slowly. Repeat this several times. (As many times as you wish) til you feel totally relaxed. The breathing exercises should help you to relax & ease your hypo anxiety & your headache. You might actually fall asleep! Before you stand up (slowly now)** make sure you have a thick Cardigan or jumper handy to wear ( **I should have said this earlier- sorry) because you might feel a little cold when your relaxation exercise regime is finished. NB. If for any reason you have been advised against doing any of the above, then please adhere to that advice. this was courtesy of @wirralass, hope you don't mind me passing it on hun  x


Thank you I will give it a go...I'm a big fan of anything that helps me sleep lol, I swear I am meant to be nocturnal haha! x


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## Lucy Honeychurch (Mar 3, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Oh no I hope it all goes well! Fingers crossed for you x



Thank you xx


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## Wirrallass (Mar 3, 2017)

Kaylz said:


> This is what I was taught at relaxation classes to help, amongst many other symptoms, anxiety & to get rid of headaches:- lie down on your bed; sofa; or floor. Lie on your back, cover yourself with duvet or throw. Hands on your tum, slowly inhale a deep breath. ..hold it for a few secs ...then breathe out slowly. Repeat this several times. (As many times as you wish) til you feel totally relaxed. The breathing exercises should help you to relax & ease your hypo anxiety & your headache. You might actually fall asleep! Before you stand up (slowly now)** make sure you have a thick Cardigan or jumper handy to wear ( **I should have said this earlier- sorry) because you might feel a little cold when your relaxation exercise regime is finished. NB. If for any reason you have been advised against doing any of the above, then please adhere to that advice. this was courtesy of @wirralass, hope you don't mind me passing it on hun  x


Not at all Kaylz. Have you tried it...did it help? **One thing I failed to mention was that when you breathe in, breathe through your stomach...not your chest. Sound strange? EDITED. When you inhale, push your tummy out..(not your chest) when you exhale...pull your tummy in. Thats why I mentioned that you place your hands on your stomach. It's also a beneficial way to breathe if anyone has say a chest infection that causes pain when they breathe. Hope you're feeling heaps better now Kaylz, take care of yourself. x looking forward to your dinner menu's


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## Sprogladite (Mar 5, 2017)

Hi Guys! I attempted the basal test again last night, and yet again it was halted by a hypo, so that's 3 times now. Results below:

7pm - 8.7
10pm - 9.4
11pm - 7.7 (basal done here)
1am - 2.6 (test ended here)
6:30am - 2.8

All the hypos in the night are surely not a coincidence. I was very surprised to have another hypo at 6:30 as I drank about half a bottle of lucozade before going back to sleep, which I had thought was overdoing it! Considering my sugars look good before the basal happens, it must be the basal at fault here, right?


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## Kaylz (Mar 5, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Hi Guys! I attempted the basal test again last night, and yet again it was halted by a hypo, so that's 3 times now. Results below:
> 
> 7pm - 8.7
> 10pm - 9.4
> ...


It does sound like it's pointing to the basal, what basal are you on, sorry about your hypo again, me too again yesterday afternoon x


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## Sprogladite (Mar 5, 2017)

Kaylz said:


> It does sound like it's pointing to the basal, what basal are you on, sorry about your hypo again, me too again yesterday afternoon x


I'm on lantus! Ugh we are a right pair aren't we! I hope this one was easier to deal with! X


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## Kaylz (Mar 5, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> I'm on lantus! Ugh we are a right pair aren't we! I hope this one was easier to deal with! X


Ah I know nothing about lantus as I'm on Tresiba, I know right, I had 4 sweets this time waited 20 mins and was still below 4 so had another 1 and 20 mins and back up to 4.7 by tea I was 11.something so my meter suggested a 2 unit correction but I only took 1 by bed I was down to 8.9 which prompted a correction which I didn't take as didn't feel comfortable doing it, woke up on 7.4 so had to take a correction with breakfast, now down to 4.6 before my dinner so I'm panicking again haha, feel very paranoid today so did a 1,2,3 and 4.5 hour test after breakfast and now I'm going to be doing a 1,1.5 and at least a 2 hour test after lunch in the hope that if I catch myself going low I can have a biscuit or something to try and stop it x


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## SB2015 (Mar 5, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Hi Guys! I attempted the basal test again last night, and yet again it was halted by a hypo, so that's 3 times now. Results below:
> 
> 7pm - 8.7
> 10pm - 9.4
> ...



Hi Sprogladite, When I had night hypos I was switched to Levemir as it enabled me to split my basal insulin at night without reducing the day time amount (There is no point in splitting Lantus as it has a different profile from Levemir).  

I also got a pen that did half units so I was able to make a half unit adjustment each time until I got things sorted.  I was also told that I needed to be on Levemir before I did the DAFNE course.  I was very happy with the change even though it meant another jab each day.  You could talk to your DSN and see whether they have other suggestions a specific well

Keep giong with thse basal tests.  The evidence you are collecting will help your ur DSN advise you on what changes to make.  I hope that you get things sorted.


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## Sprogladite (Mar 6, 2017)

SB2015 said:


> Hi Sprogladite, When I had night hypos I was switched to Levemir as it enabled me to split my basal insulin at night without reducing the day time amount (There is no point in splitting Lantus as it has a different profile from Levemir).
> 
> I also got a pen that did half units so I was able to make a half unit adjustment each time until I got things sorted.  I was also told that I needed to be on Levemir before I did the DAFNE course.  I was very happy with the change even though it meant another jab each day.  You could talk to your DSN and see whether they have other suggestions a specific well
> 
> Keep giong with thse basal tests.  The evidence you are collecting will help your ur DSN advise you on what changes to make.  I hope that you get things sorted.


Thank you @SB2015, I actually used to be on Levemir but developed an allergy to it after my son was born unfortunately  I will keep collecting data, I tried to make an appointment with the DN team but appointment line is only open 9am - 1pm, left a message, got called into a meeting and then missed their call back! Will have to try again tomorrow.  I had a major hypo this morning - 2.3, so not super major in terms of level but major in terms of effect it had on me, I couldn't talk properly! I can already see that my BG control is better, so hopefully my next blood test will show an improvement


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## Sprogladite (Mar 6, 2017)

Kaylz said:


> Ah I know nothing about lantus as I'm on Tresiba, I know right, I had 4 sweets this time waited 20 mins and was still below 4 so had another 1 and 20 mins and back up to 4.7 by tea I was 11.something so my meter suggested a 2 unit correction but I only took 1 by bed I was down to 8.9 which prompted a correction which I didn't take as didn't feel comfortable doing it, woke up on 7.4 so had to take a correction with breakfast, now down to 4.6 before my dinner so I'm panicking again haha, feel very paranoid today so did a 1,2,3 and 4.5 hour test after breakfast and now I'm going to be doing a 1,1.5 and at least a 2 hour test after lunch in the hope that if I catch myself going low I can have a biscuit or something to try and stop it x


Oh dear, how did it work out for you @Kaylz?  I'm going to add Tresiba to the list of things to ask the DN about...poor thing is going to have a nervous breakdown after I've asked my 90th question lol!


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## Kaylz (Mar 6, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Oh dear, how did it work out for you @Kaylz?  I'm going to add Tresiba to the list of things to ask the DN about...poor thing is going to have a nervous breakdown after I've asked my 90th question lol!


I shot up to 11 for tea and not long after telling you about Saturdays I had another one yesterday at 3.6 I took 2 jelly babies waited 25 mins which brought me up to 4.5 I tested again at an hour was sitting at 5.4 and an hour after that was 5.9  I phoned the DSN this morning and got through with no automated system SHOCK haha and she suggested I change my lunch ratio from 1:10 to 1:12 so I did that started lunch at 6.8 2 hours later was 7.2 had a cuppy and 2 squares of 90% chocolate and before tea was 6.4 so it seems to have worked out ok  see a DSN tomorrow so will talk about it properly with them, I'm so glad that you feel you have much better control now and it certainly seems like you do so keep up the fantastic work sometimes all it needs is a little support and guidance and I'm sorry that it had to come from us here rather than your professional team I am so proud of how far you have come along  x


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## Sprogladite (Mar 6, 2017)

Kaylz said:


> I shot up to 11 for tea and not long after telling you about Saturdays I had another one yesterday at 3.6 I took 2 jelly babies waited 25 mins which brought me up to 4.5 I tested again at an hour was sitting at 5.4 and an hour after that was 5.9  I phoned the DSN this morning and got through with no automated system SHOCK haha and she suggested I change my lunch ratio from 1:10 to 1:12 so I did that started lunch at 6.8 2 hours later was 7.2 had a cuppy and 2 squares of 90% chocolate and before tea was 6.4 so it seems to have worked out ok  see a DSN tomorrow so will talk about it properly with them, I'm so glad that you feel you have much better control now and it certainly seems like you do so keep up the fantastic work sometimes all it needs is a little support and guidance and I'm sorry that it had to come from us here rather than your professional team I am so proud of how far you have come along  x


Bless you that's so sweet of you, I'm so glad I came here! I just wish I had found you lovely lot sooner!!


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## Sprogladite (Mar 8, 2017)

So someone in my office has just gone out specifically to buy a birthday cake, even though it's nobody's birthday. Everyone is eating cake, thanking the person who got it, and raving about how great it is.  Everyone except me, who is sitting in the corner biting my tongue so hard I'm quite surprised I'm not bleeding.  Quite seriously - do my employers have any legal obligations to protect me from this?  I've raised it several times but I just feel like people don't see my diabetes as a 'serious' illness.  The flipping vegetarians get catered to, but not me, oh no. I'm really upset about this, it's hard enough as it is without sweets constantly being shoved in my face!


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## Kaylz (Mar 8, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> So someone in my office has just gone out specifically to buy a birthday cake, even though it's nobody's birthday. Everyone is eating cake, thanking the person who got it, and raving about how great it is.  Everyone except me, who is sitting in the corner biting my tongue so hard I'm quite surprised I'm not bleeding.  Quite seriously - do my employers have any legal obligations to protect me from this?  I've raised it several times but I just feel like people don't see my diabetes as a 'serious' illness.  The flipping vegetarians get catered to, but not me, oh no. I'm really upset about this, it's hard enough as it is without sweets constantly being shoved in my face!


There is no legal thing saying work colleagues can't do this although out of respect if I was non d I wouldn't really do it as I would feel that it would make  the d person feel very uncomfortable anyway apart from that how are you feeling xx


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## Robin (Mar 8, 2017)

It would have been nice if someone had been thoughtful enough to ask you if there was anything they could bring back for you, that you could enjoy.


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## Sprogladite (Mar 8, 2017)

Honestly it wouldn't bother me but its just CONSTANT, it never ends.  I only have so much willpower!  It's  getting to the point where I'm getting anxious about coming in and overly emotional/tearful when the latest lot arrives in the office!


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## Stitch147 (Mar 8, 2017)

Whenever people bring stuff into the office where I work they always ask me what I can and would like to have. Yesterday it was a girl in my teams birthday and I popped to the shop with her when she got stuff, knowing that I can have them she got me a fresh cream eclair. Unfortunately there isnt anything that your employer can do. Other times when people just bring stuff in I just gnore it or go and buy myself something that I can have.


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## Kaylz (Mar 8, 2017)

Do you get on with them like would it maybe be possible for you to tell them how you are feeling about it x


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## Sprogladite (Mar 8, 2017)

Kaylz said:


> There is no legal thing saying work colleagues can't do this although out of respect if I was non d I wouldn't really do it as I would feel that it would make  the d person feel very uncomfortable anyway apart from that how are you feeling xx


I'm ok, having a rough couple of days mentally.  Getting very anxious about going to sleep now I know I'm going hypo in the night and can't seem to fall asleep until it's happened now, so haven't been sleeping much.  Debating treating for a hypo even if I'm not hypo before I go to sleep so that when the hypo hits I just go to normal range instead of low.  I know it's not ideal but it's better than staying up until 3am every night.  Still waiting for the DN team to call me back, but seeing GP nurse on Friday so will see if they have any suggestions (although unlikely). I dunno.  Feeling tired and grumpy tbh lol.



Kaylz said:


> Do you get on with them like would it maybe be possible for you to tell them how you are feeling about it x


Yes, and I have spoken to them all about this before but nothing has changed.  I can just tell I'm eventually going to lose my rag and just really start ranting about going blind and losing my feet at some point!


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## Kaylz (Mar 8, 2017)

Sorry but they don't sound very understanding about your condition at all as for the night time hypos I'm sorry to hear that but definitely mention Tresiba to your team like you mentioned you were going to be doing anyway, it's supposed to have a much flatter profile than other basals and from what I saw on a facebook page earlier a lot of people have had success from changing from Lantus or Levimear to Tresiba and now do not suffer with night time hypos I can't remember which you are on at the moment though x


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## Sprogladite (Mar 8, 2017)

Kaylz said:


> Sorry but they don't sound very understanding about your condition at all as for the night time hypos I'm sorry to hear that but definitely mention Tresiba to your team like you mentioned you were going to be doing anyway, it's supposed to have a much flatter profile than other basals and from what I saw on a facebook page earlier a lot of people have had success from changing from Lantus or Levimear to Tresiba and now do not suffer with night time hypos I can't remember which you are on at the moment though x


Yes it's a case of making all the right noises but nothing actually happening.  Very frustrating.  I know I'm being over sensitive about it in the grand scheme of things but if someone can cater to someone's life choice as a vegetarian then they can cater to an actual medical requirement, it's ridiculous.  You would think after all this time I would be used to it, but it doesn't stop me getting very upset about it   I will ask about the Tresiba, if I ever manage to get hold of anyone!


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## Kaylz (Mar 8, 2017)

Could you maybe have a word with the gp nurse and see if they can do anything to push them along a bit x


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## Sprogladite (Mar 8, 2017)

Kaylz said:


> Could you maybe have a word with the gp nurse and see if they can do anything to push them along a bit x


I will try on Friday but honestly I'm not holding out much hope at this point!  My one saving grace is that one of the GPs has an interest in diabetes and if all else fails I can make an appointment with him.  Just means even more time off work!


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## Kaylz (Mar 8, 2017)

Nobody likes taking time off work but I'm more worried about how your feeling and doing than you taking time off work haha, do your team have an email address to get in touch with them x


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## Sprogladite (Mar 8, 2017)

Kaylz said:


> Nobody likes taking time off work but I'm more worried about how your feeling and doing than you taking time off work haha, do your team have an email address to get in touch with them x


I don't know but I will ask on Friday!


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## Kaylz (Mar 8, 2017)

I rang up my team this morning and left a message they aim to call you back within 2-4 hours but there was once they never got back to me at all so imagine my surprise when they rang back 12 minutes later lol anyway I saw a DSN yesterday the one I don't particularly like but I got her email address today to send some questions as the one I spoke to on the phone was going on holiday, the one I saw yesterday has told me to use a 1:12 for my tea too as I suffered another hypo on Monday after my tea this time, I also had my hba1c test which was done by finger prick twice as the nurse dropped the first one on the floor  lol it came back at 33 which I've been told is too low, it was 101 in November when I was diagnosed x


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## Sprogladite (Mar 8, 2017)

Kaylz said:


> I rang up my team this morning and left a message they aim to call you back within 2-4 hours but there was once they never got back to me at all so imagine my surprise when they rang back 12 minutes later lol anyway I saw a DSN yesterday the one I don't particularly like but I got her email address today to send some questions as the one I spoke to on the phone was going on holiday, the one I saw yesterday has told me to use a 1:12 for my tea too as I suffered another hypo on Monday after my tea this time, I also had my hba1c test which was done by finger prick twice as the nurse dropped the first one on the floor  lol it came back at 33 which I've been told is too low, it was 101 in November when I was diagnosed x



Lol I am jealous, I've called three times now and still nothing back! Oh dear, never good when the team testing you does stuff like that! Lol I will never forget, i once went for a blood test and wasn't paying much attention, got up to leave after it was done, walked out the hospital past all the people waiting for blood tests.  Just heard several gasps as I walked past and looked down and I was literally gushing blood everywhere out of my arm, it was horror-movie worthy lol!  Probably traumatised a few people on my way out there lol.  Your hba1c is quite low, hopefully the new ratio will help you out.  When are you having it retested? x


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## Kaylz (Mar 8, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Lol I am jealous, I've called three times now and still nothing back! Oh dear, never good when the team testing you does stuff like that! Lol I will never forget, i once went for a blood test and wasn't paying much attention, got up to leave after it was done, walked out the hospital past all the people waiting for blood tests.  Just heard several gasps as I walked past and looked down and I was literally gushing blood everywhere out of my arm, it was horror-movie worthy lol!  Probably traumatised a few people on my way out there lol.  Your hba1c is quite low, hopefully the new ratio will help you out.  When are you having it retested? x


Yeah she told me they prefer it to be between 40-50 as for being retested I have no earthly idea she never mentioned it, I remember when my mum was giving blood we were in the city hall at the blood donors and a woman stood up and exactly the same as happened to you happened to her I was much younger at the time and I was sat next to my mum like OMG haha x


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## Jeandp (Mar 9, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> if someone can cater to someone's life choice as a vegetarian then they can cater to an actual medical requirement, it's ridiculous.



How true! I don't think I could cope with going back to an office job now as a diabetic. Stay strong


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## Sprogladite (Mar 9, 2017)

I've heard back and now have an appointment with the diabetic nurse on the 24th March  hopefully they will be able to help me get my basal dose sorted. I attempted eating out and thought it was great that the place I was going had nutritional information available on their website for each meal, I thought I was prepared, had lunch, dosed according to website info...3 and a half hours later I'm 18.6. Doh.  Info must have been just for the sauce or something (I had a curry, the way they do it there is with a very very small portion of rice so thought I'd be ok!).  Frustrating as I was 7.8 before which is much closer to what I'm aiming for (as I've been hovering in the 10s since I started this).  Nevermind.  I've done a correction dose, hopefully that combined with walk to the train station from work will put me back into single digits lol.



Jeandp said:


> How true! I don't think I could cope with going back to an office job now as a diabetic. Stay strong


Thank you!  I'm strong most of the time but yesterday was an angry day lol.  Feeling better today...probably because nobody has bought any sweets in yet! Haha! 

@Kaylz how did the new ratio work for you yesterday? x


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## Kaylz (Mar 9, 2017)

@Sprogladite glad you have an appointment and sorry to hear that you've not had a great experience with eating out, I haven't eaten out yet not many places to go in my town being one of the reasons, yeah it worked out really well actually, thought I was pushing it with my tea though had 25g carbs so should have needed 2 units if I was in range, unfortunately I wasn't but it was only a 7.3 which prompted a correction unit but as we have established 1 unit is too much of a correction for me so I had to go it without it, had mashed potatoes with cheese with my meal, 2 hours later - 7.6 and by bed time down to 6.9 so it's definitely working for me, thinking I would have more freedom on a 1:12 was totally wrong though as now I have to add stuff in to get it to a close enough amount to stay ok lol x


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## Sprogladite (Mar 9, 2017)

Kaylz said:


> @Sprogladite glad you have an appointment and sorry to hear that you've not had a great experience with eating out, I haven't eaten out yet not many places to go in my town being one of the reasons, yeah it worked out really well actually, thought I was pushing it with my tea though had 25g carbs so should have needed 2 units if I was in range, unfortunately I wasn't but it was only a 7.3 which prompted a correction unit but as we have established 1 unit is too much of a correction for me so I had to go it without it, had mashed potatoes with cheese with my meal, 2 hours later - 7.6 and by bed time down to 6.9 so it's definitely working for me, thinking I would have more freedom on a 1:12 was totally wrong though as now I have to add stuff in to get it to a close enough amount to stay ok lol x


That doesn't sound too bad for the first time trying the new ratio! And now you have more of an idea of how it will work, tonight should hopefully be better  I would kill to have your numbers lol.  I will get there...eventually.  Feeling hopeful that the appointment with the DN will help me get my basal either changed or sorted out one way or another, and then I can really crack down on trying to keep my sugars lower


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## Radders (Mar 9, 2017)

If I know there is going to be some kind of snack fest at work I sometimes take in some strawberries, cheese or nuts as a contribution so that I can join in.


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## trophywench (Mar 9, 2017)

I wouldn't even correct for a number under 7.5, on MDI.  Pumping I might have 0.2 or 0.3 extra - a whole half unit would likely be too much.


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## Sprogladite (Mar 9, 2017)

Radders said:


> If I know there is going to be some kind of snack fest at work I sometimes take in some strawberries, cheese or nuts as a contribution so that I can join in.


Lol it's more the fact that every day is a snack fest and I have an awful sweet tooth so it's usually only a matter of time until my willpower breaks! I have been very well behaved this week though, feeling quite proud of myself lol


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## Sprogladite (Mar 21, 2017)

Ok, so,update.  Seeing the DN on Friday and we are gonna begin tackling my incorrect basal dose (I assume) - BUT, since carb counting began I've gone from being consistently in the 10/11/12s (if not higher) to being consistently in the 7/8/9s unless I overdo the carbs.  However, I feel awful with my sugars running lower.  Constantly feeling shaky, headaches, tired, dizzy at times...I feel horrible.  I get that my body is probably adjusting but seriously, how long am I gonna have to wait for it to sort itself out?  It's been a couple of weeks as my control has gotten better that I've started feeling ill, it is just very difficult to accept that running lower is better for you when you feel so bad! (obviously I know it is, but as I sit here shaking, cold and with a cracking headache this doesn't feel like the healthy option lol.  Sugar currently 8.1)


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## Northerner (Mar 21, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Ok, so,update.  Seeing the DN on Friday and we are gonna begin tackling my incorrect basal dose (I assume) - BUT, since carb counting began I've gone from being consistently in the 10/11/12s (if not higher) to being consistently in the 7/8/9s unless I overdo the carbs.  However, I feel awful with my sugars running lower.  Constantly feeling shaky, headaches, tired, dizzy at times...I feel horrible.  I get that my body is probably adjusting but seriously, how long am I gonna have to wait for it to sort itself out?  It's been a couple of weeks as my control has gotten better that I've started feeling ill, it is just very difficult to accept that running lower is better for you when you feel so bad! (obviously I know it is, but as I sit here shaking, cold and with a cracking headache this doesn't feel like the healthy option lol.  Sugar currently 8.1)


Good to hear things are improving  on the BG front, but sorry to hear it appears to have come along with some unwanted symptoms  Things WILL get better, be patient - hopefully not too long now before you feel perfectly fine  at those numbers


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## Lucy Honeychurch (Mar 21, 2017)

You've done so well, hopefully you'll feel better very soon


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## Ljc (Mar 21, 2017)

Hi. I hope this stage won't last much longer and you start feeling loads better soon. I'm wondering if a small protein snack would help.


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## Sprogladite (Mar 23, 2017)

Northerner said:


> Good to hear things are improving  on the BG front, but sorry to hear it appears to have come along with some unwanted symptoms  Things WILL get better, be patient - hopefully not too long now before you feel perfectly fine  at those numbers


Thank you! So far I have resisted the urge to eat something just to make myself feel better...I suppose this has shown me I have willpower I never knew I had! Lol 



Ljc said:


> Hi. I hope this stage won't last much longer and you start feeling loads better soon. I'm wondering if a small protein snack would help.


Thank you, protein snacks are a good idea I will give that a go! 



Lucy Honeychurch said:


> You've done so well, hopefully you'll feel better very soon


Thank you! Fingers crossed lol.  I am seeing the DN tomorrow so hopefully we can start working on getting my basal dose right and we can do this properly!!


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## everydayupsanddowns (Mar 23, 2017)

Your transformation in levels is amazing @Sprogladite - you should feel very proud of your determination and willpower.

Hope your unpleasant feelings subside soon - which they should as your bodies 'glucose thermostat' resets to the more normal range.


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## trophywench (Mar 23, 2017)

Have a lovely time with your DN, Sprog - I mean that BTW - he/she should really be your mate!  And I hope they will be that.


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## Sprogladite (Mar 23, 2017)

Thank you everyone, I really appreciate all your support and kind words  I will update you tomorrow on how it's all gone!


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## Sprogladite (Mar 24, 2017)

Appointment with the DN went really well today, as a starting point she has told me to lower my basal dose by 2 units to see if this helps with the hypos at night.  If not, or if it causes my BGs to run high in the day, she is going to switch me onto either Tresiba or Trujeo.  I've been booked onto a carb counting course for the 19th May, and am on a waiting list for DAFNE.  There are apparently no appointments at all for DAFNE available this year as they are completely booked up, so I guess we are keeping fingers crossed for cancellations.I have to have some bloods redone because they marked it up incorrectly last time which was a little bit annoying, but all things considered not much to complain about. She was pleased with my day to day BG levels and told me to stop being so hard on myself, and she did a letter to let me fly with my insulin/needles etc (I'm going to America in July).  She did also show me the half unit pens but wants me to get my basal sorted before we see if this is needed, but she did say it won't be a problem at all getting them if it is 

So all in all, I really think this is starting to pay off...she wants a hba1c reading of low 50s next time I see her and if it's in the 40s I get a gold star LOL!


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## grovesy (Mar 24, 2017)

Glad you had a positive appointment.


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## Sprogladite (Mar 25, 2017)

grovesy said:


> Glad you had a positive appointment.


Thank you!

Another bit of interesting information I picked up yesterday is that Lucozade is shortly going to be changing, having its sugar content cut by more than 50%. Bit of a pain in the ass as that's what I use to treat hypos - @trophywench i think you do too don't you? Just wanted to make sure you were aware. I don't know when the change is happening so will have to make sure I check labels when buying!


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## Kaylz (Mar 25, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Another bit of interesting information I picked up yesterday is that Lucozade is shortly going to be changing, having its sugar content cut by more than 50%. Bit of a pain in the ass as that's what I use to treat hypos - @trophywench i think you do too don't you? Just wanted to make sure you were aware. I don't know when the change is happening so will have to make sure I check labels when buying!


People that use Lucozade are kinda buying up a stock of it at the moment, I use jelly babies so doesn't effect me, it's all because of the sugar tax coming in xx


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## Robin (Mar 25, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Another bit of interesting information I picked up yesterday is that Lucozade is shortly going to be changing, having its sugar content cut by more than 50%. Bit of a pain in the ass as that's what I use to treat hypos - @trophywench i think you do too don't you? Just wanted to make sure you were aware. I don't know when the change is happening so will have to make sure I check labels when buying!


From April. More info here.
https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/changes-to-lucozade-glucose-content.65649/


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## trophywench (Mar 25, 2017)

Hee hee - bought three 6-packs the other day in Tesco.  Hopefully, should give me best part of a long enough time to find something else!


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## Radders (Mar 26, 2017)

trophywench said:


> Hee hee - bought three 6-packs the other day in Tesco.  Hopefully, should give me best part of a long enough time to find something else!


Have you tried Ribena? It seems to do the trick for me, mind you they will probably reduce the sugar in that as well.


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## trophywench (Mar 26, 2017)

No - not recently since all mothers stopped giving it to their children because of the sugar content LOL  Trouble with Ribena is - I LOVE it ! (anything blackcurrant floats my boat except raw ones LOL)


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## Lucy Honeychurch (Mar 26, 2017)

I love Ribena too, I got a sugar free one last week


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## Radders (Mar 26, 2017)

trophywench said:


> No - not recently since all mothers stopped giving it to their children because of the sugar content LOL  Trouble with Ribena is - I LOVE it ! (anything blackcurrant floats my boat except raw ones LOL)


I used to love it but now I associate it with hypos!


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## Sprogladite (Mar 27, 2017)

Robin said:


> From April. More info here.
> https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/changes-to-lucozade-glucose-content.65649/


Thank you @Robin that article is really helpful.  Just a shame as when I am low I sometimes struggle to chew so Lucozade has always been my go-to for hypo treatment.  I will have to start scanning all the drinks in April as I work my way through a stockpile of lucozade  lol @trophywench I am exactly the same as you, it has to be orange!! LOL

Ribena would work if the recipe doesn't change but I think I would struggle with not drinking more than I should...it is very more-ish haha!


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## Radders (Mar 27, 2017)

Sprogladite said:


> Thank you @Robin that article is really helpful.  Just a shame as when I am low I sometimes struggle to chew so Lucozade has always been my go-to for hypo treatment.  I will have to start scanning all the drinks in April as I work my way through a stockpile of lucozade  lol @trophywench I am exactly the same as you, it has to be orange!! LOL
> 
> Ribena would work if the recipe doesn't change but I think I would struggle with not drinking more than I should...it is very more-ish haha!


I use the cartons.


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## trophywench (Mar 27, 2017)

Radders said:


> I use the cartons.



Good God !  There are 30g carbs in a carton of it - 288 ml.  Far, far too much!


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## Radders (Mar 27, 2017)

trophywench said:


> Good God !  There are 30g carbs in a carton of it - 288 ml.  Far, far too much!


Yes. I wouldn't drink all of it!


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## Wirrallass (Mar 27, 2017)

Radders said:


> Yes. I wouldn't drink all of it!


One sip at a time eh Radders


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## Radders (Mar 27, 2017)

These days I rarely have the kind of hypos that merit Ribena. I have realised that for anything above 3 I only need 10g carb so I usually just have 3 Dextrosol, or a raisin box if it's in the mid to high 3s. The Ribena boxes I have are 200 ml so 20g carbs - only needed on rare occasions I dip into the 2s. Even then I would probably not drain it in one go but keep some in reserve.


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## trophywench (Mar 27, 2017)

See this is what I like about the Lucozade - I know how many gulps = 100ml - and open bottles keep for ages anyway - there's so much sugar in it I should think it's a permashield!

And - it has to be flat - swallowing is bad enough when I'm hypo - so any fizz hurts my throat. 

(My husband thinks this is batty and can't possibly happen.  Fair enough, I find it hard to believe myself - even though I know it's true LOL)


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## Radders (Mar 28, 2017)

trophywench said:


> See this is what I like about the Lucozade - I know how many gulps = 100ml - and open bottles keep for ages anyway - there's so much sugar in it I should think it's a permashield!
> 
> And - it has to be flat - swallowing is bad enough when I'm hypo - so any fizz hurts my throat.
> 
> (My husband thinks this is batty and can't possibly happen.  Fair enough, I find it hard to believe myself - even though I know it's true LOL)


I have never liked fizzy drinks because the bubbles hurt. I make exceptions for champagne, cava, prosecco, lager..... even some lager has to be left a while before I drink it.


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## trophywench (Mar 29, 2017)

Oh I definitely like your thinking there - I can cope with a certain amount of bubbles when I'm not hypo - but the very worst is when it's TOO cold.  Really hurts then whether the bottle is marked 'Lanson' with a nice black label or 'Schweppes Diet Tonic Water' LOL (mind I don't actually like tonic water, but have to drink it since I go to places with mosquitoes, so I pour gin in it to take away the taste.  And it works - since I've never yet had malaria.

I err on the side of 'petilant' rather than 'lively' LOL


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## Radders (Mar 29, 2017)

trophywench said:


> Oh I definitely like your thinking there - I can cope with a certain amount of bubbles when I'm not hypo - but the very worst is when it's TOO cold.  Really hurts then whether the bottle is marked 'Lanson' with a nice black label or 'Schweppes Diet Tonic Water' LOL (mind I don't actually like tonic water, but have to drink it since I go to places with mosquitoes, so I pour gin in it to take away the taste.  And it works - since I've never yet had malaria.
> 
> I err on the side of 'petilant' rather than 'lively' LOL


There's nothing like gin, or cheeky cheap red wine, for livening up a diet tonic, I find!


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## trophywench (Mar 29, 2017)

Oooh I dunno about fizzy red.  I've tasted Lambrusco, thanks .....


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## Radders (Mar 30, 2017)

trophywench said:


> Oooh I dunno about fizzy red.  I've tasted Lambrusco, thanks .....


I love sangria and at home I often make a long drink out of cheap wine box wine by just adding cloudy lemonade. Tonic is more widely available when out and about. My trouble is wine on its own just disappears too quickly!


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## trophywench (Mar 30, 2017)

Ah, I'd actually drink more as sangria - well, it's mainly pop, not much booze, my brain assures me!


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## Sprogladite (Apr 4, 2017)

Update: things are going well but feeling a little down lately.  Sugars have been good, but still getting hypos either in the night or first thing in the morning so reducing basal dose hasn't done the trick.  Going to correspond with DN on what to do next.

I had my first pain-free day in terms of the neuropathy in my feet for the first time in about 6 months on Sunday which was amazing, and really made me feel like I was making progress.  However, today and yesterday I've been getting tingling pains in my right hand which is something new, never had any signs of neuropathy in my hands before so feeling bummed about that.  Also still feeling rubbish a lot of the time, but it's now starting to be when I'm in the 5s and 6s so that's a small improvement too.  Trying really hard to stay positive but I think I'm just having one of those days today!!


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