# Woman Killed herself over Bedroom Tax



## Donald (May 12, 2013)

See this on the news  


http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...xYDoCg&usg=AFQjCNG8DtUpZxokPEIMrm2TYTlV80AMiA


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## Northerner (May 12, 2013)

I read this earlier, awful. The politicians who come up with these ideas have absolutely no comprehension of how it may affect people. They save a few pounds and ruin the lives of vulnerable individuals to offset the billions that go uncollected from those with good accountants


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## Donald (May 12, 2013)

I could not agree more I would like to say more but will not


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## Steff (May 12, 2013)

So sad to see this, BUT such a shame a poor lorry lorry driver has been embroiled in this he will never be the same again


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## Donald (May 12, 2013)

Steff said:


> So sad to see this, BUT such a shame a poor lorry lorry driver has been embroiled in this he will never be the same again




I agree must have been a heck of a shock for the driver, But it is a sad state when it come down this.


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## FM001 (May 12, 2013)

Northerner said:


> I read this earlier, awful. The politicians who come up with these ideas have absolutely no comprehension of how it may affect people. They save a few pounds and ruin the lives of vulnerable individuals to offset the billions that go uncollected from those with good accountants





Straight to point and very well put. The disgusting thing is people like this lady have no place to go, 1 bedroom social housing is like rocking horse poo, a cunning ploy by the government to strip claimants benefits


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## Northerner (May 12, 2013)

Steff said:


> So sad to see this, BUT such a shame a poor lorry lorry driver has been embroiled in this he will never be the same again



Yes, it's terrible to involve someone else in something like this  I once worked with someone whose husband was the regional rail representative who had the task of dealing with people who threw themselves under trains, a very hard job to do


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## Cat1964 (May 12, 2013)

The bedroom to is a huge injustice. After all the only people this affects are the most vulnerable in society. In Glasgow I know for sure there are no one bedroom flats. I remember when I was moving back to Glasgow I applied for a council house and was asked what kind of place was I looking for. As I was desperate for a place because of work I said to the housing officer that even a one bedroom flat was fine and was told we don't do one bedroomed flats....so was given a 2 bedroomed flat. Now if I was still in that flat and say unemployed I would be subject to the bedroom tax through no fault of my own. There must be lots of people in that position who applied for flats and were told there are no one bedroom flats and were given a two bedroomed flat. It's so unfair and this poor woman's death goes to show just how much people are affected by the bedroom tax.


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## Steff (May 12, 2013)

Found out on itv news she had had been offered somewhere else more convenient but refused it..... Hmmm


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## ypauly (May 12, 2013)

There are Millions that would love a bedroom yet for years we have allowed people to have far more than they need. We wouldn't even be having this conversation if the previous governments of both colours had used some of the vast wealth they had generated to build new homes for people. Instead they gambled on the city and lost the lot and now we can't afford to build them, well not without sacrifices elsewhere.

It is very sad but this lady had lived for 51 years under governments that were not the coalition and yet was still benefit dependant despit those governments having the necessary means to ensure otherwise so to blame the coalition for that is wrong.


They are doing a difficult job in difficult circumstances that were not of their creation.

Steff I know of somebody else that is currently refusing an offer of somewhere smaller, while my own mother wants somewhere smaller as the council house she has is too big. She will have to pay the extra.


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## Northerner (May 12, 2013)

ypauly said:


> There are Millions that would love a bedroom yet for years we have allowed people to have far more than they need. We wouldn't even be having this conversation if the previous governments of both colours had used some of the vast wealth they had generated to build new homes for people. Instead they gambled on the city and lost the lot and now we can't afford to build them, well not without sacrifices elsewhere.
> 
> It is very sad but this lady had lived for 51 years under governments that were not the coalition and yet was still benefit dependant despit those governments having the necessary means to ensure otherwise so to blame the coalition for that is wrong.
> 
> ...



But we are asking people to move away from homes they have lived in for decades. This woman was unable to work and couldn't face moving away from her friends and family and the neighbourhood she knew. I don't believe the savings justify what it is doing to people in such a situation when there are people walking around with more money than they can eat and serving judgements on others whose lives they cannot comprehend.

Paul, I agree that the way out would be to build suitable, affordable, social housing, which would also provide a huge boost to the economy - this government refuses to contemplate any sort of investment in the future whilst pouring on the pain - with little prospect of avoiding it - on those least equipped to fight back.


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## ypauly (May 12, 2013)

Council houses are given based on need, well they are nowadays. The system is wrong because those need should be periodically re-assessed rather than just given something for life. There is no incentive for people to do anything for themselves and while I would agree that some people will always need help and support the majority coild take care of themselves.


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## FM001 (May 12, 2013)

Just think if this unfortunate lady didn't leave a note no one would be any wiser as to what pushed her over the limit, how many others are contemplating the same when they can't put food on the table or heat their homes.

Really hope this gets some press coverage over the next few days to show this uncaring government up.


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## Steff (May 12, 2013)

Its such an emotive subject. But I do believe the lady however desperate didnt need to wreck an innocent lorrys drivers life along the way..... I do understand theres times ive been so desperate ive not eaten a meal that day just to make sure my son had a meal or the house is warm that night but I get through it someway somehow.


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## HOBIE (May 12, 2013)

It is very sad but you can not blame the government for doing wrong/right. If it wasnt that it could have been something else.


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## HOBIE (May 12, 2013)

Toby are you talking about the gov ment that sent a lot of the best troups in the world to Afgan .  Uncaring Gov spend spend spend


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## ypauly (May 12, 2013)

I just wonder how selfish this woman must have been to put that poor lorry driver through a gruesome event that will live with him for the rest of his life just because she wanted extra rooms free of charge.And her poor family members, did she even care what kind of living hell and guilt trips they will now be going through because of her actions.


Suicide is a terrible and tragic event but to cause somebody else trauma like the poor lorry driver in this case makes me lose sympathy.



A family with a greater need for this property that will undoubtebly include children, those children may even have special needs themselves must surely be given priority on a property of this nature. there is no room for sentiment when it comes to bricks and mortar and if people want to be sentimental over such things then they should quite rightly be prepared to pay as I would would put actual need above sentiment all day every day.


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## ypauly (May 12, 2013)

I also very much doubt that this woman was a happy go lucky individual enjoying everything life had to offer before this spare room subsidy was removed.


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## cakemaker (May 12, 2013)

I don't think selfishness comes into it when someone contemplates suicide. Mental health issues, depression, despair........... 
Selfishness implies rational thought and perhaps greed. 

Suicide is commited by desperate individuals who can't see a way out of their unhappy situations. I doubt when she did this tragic thing she would have been capable of rational thought as to who she may be affecting. She was probably near to breaking point and this 'bedroom tax' pushed her over the top. 

It has been suggested that this woman is greedy and I would accept that in certain circumstances the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the individual. However, I doubt if greed was her primary motive in trying to cling to her home. I think 'home' is the pertinent word here. Home suggests far more than bricks and mortar. It suggests an individuals safety and security, the buiding of a life and all the hard work and emotion that goes in to that. To lose one's home is shocking; tantamount to bereavement. I believe that she was desperate to keep her home and couldn't find a way to do it.


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## FM001 (May 13, 2013)

ypauly said:


> I just wonder how selfish this woman must have been to put that poor lorry driver through a gruesome event that will live with him for the rest of his life just because she wanted extra rooms free of charge.And her poor family members, did she even care what kind of living hell and guilt trips they will now be going through because of her actions.
> 
> 
> Suicide is a terrible and tragic event but to cause somebody else trauma like the poor lorry driver in this case makes me lose sympathy.
> ...




Your understanding of mental health issues and what drives people to take their own lives is very poor otherwise you wouldn't have written the above, better to say nothing than write dribble on a subject you know little about


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## FM001 (May 13, 2013)

cakemaker said:


> I don't think selfishness comes into it when someone contemplates suicide. Mental health issues, depression, despair...........
> Selfishness implies rational thought and perhaps greed.
> 
> Suicide is commited by desperate individuals who can't see a way out of their unhappy situations. I doubt when she did this tragic thing she would have been capable of rational thought as to who she may be affecting. She was probably near to breaking point and this 'bedroom tax' pushed her over the top.
> ...




Great response cakemaker.


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## Redkite (May 13, 2013)

Terribly sad for the woman and the lorry driver.  Can't comment on her case without knowing all the facts - however Ian Duncan Smith is starting to look like a Victorian workhouse director.  I can understand the principle of trying to allocate social housing according to need, but it's so wrong to introduce this retrospectively.  It would be fairer to give people fixed term rental contracts, to be reviewed every few years, so that everybody would know where they stood, not to suddenly come in and take people's homes away.  This woman's home, probably full of memories, was pulled from under her.  Who will feel happy living there now?


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## ypauly (May 13, 2013)

toby said:


> Your understanding of mental health issues and what drives people to take their own lives is very poor otherwise you wouldn't have written the above, better to say nothing than write dribble on a subject you know little about



I would accept that my knowledge of such mental health issues is slim at best however this thread and its heading is saying she killed herself over the so called wrongly bedroom tax. If she killed herself because of her state of mind then thw thread should be titled as such and blaming the coalition government for her state of mind isn't on either.

Like I said in my last post. I very much doubt this woman was a happy go lucky type that just got on with things, she ibviiusly had issues. But on the face of it I dont belive this spare bedroom subsidy was the sole cause or even tbe main cause.


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## cakemaker (May 13, 2013)

ypauly said:


> I would accept that my knowledge of such mental health issues is slim at best however this thread and its heading is saying she killed herself over the so called wrongly bedroom tax. If she killed herself because of her state of mind then thw thread should be titled as such and blaming the coalition government for her state of mind isn't on either.
> 
> Like I said in my last post. I very much doubt this woman was a happy go lucky type that just got on with things, she ibviiusly had issues. But on the face of it I dont belive this spare bedroom subsidy was the sole cause or even tbe main cause.



I agree.... BUT... It was the last straw that pushed her over the edge.

This 'bedroom tax' is just one of many new benefit laws that are affecting the vulnerable and needy. 
There are also the new maximum rates for rents and the new criteria. 
A friend of my son's who has mental health problems has just had 5 weeks in a psychiatric ward because he couldn't cope with the changes to his benefits. Basically, his land lord has put the rent up and his benefits have been reduced.


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## ypauly (May 13, 2013)

cakemaker said:


> I agree.... BUT... It was the last straw that pushed her over the edge.


Just 1 straw in how many thousands. millions it shows that it wasn't the losing the benefit that killed her, it was her unrational reaction to it's withdrawl. She decided to end it but in doing so in the way she did she ensured she would ruin at least one other life before she went.

There are also thousands of homeless who have been homeless for many years yet have never considered suicide.



Landlaords are able to do as they wish at present for the simple reason that demand far outstrips supply. There are very many very needy families that need houses and homes that are big enough yet there are many many thousands of these properties occupied by just one person. It isn't the removal of this benefit you should be arguing for it is the building of new homes, the only problem is that should ever supply catch up with demand the property prices will crash causing alarm and panic that no government wants to be blamed for, the last labour government included. 

It would be considered a vote loser should suply ever reach demand, this is where the problem actually is.

If the coalition anounced plans today to build 2 million new homes and the market crash as a result there would be a thread on here in no time ridiculing them for their incompetence with the property market.

Dammed if you do dammed if you don't, so all you can do is try to ensure the property we do have is shared out more fairy but then people still moan.


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## AlisonM (May 13, 2013)

Building new social housing is the answer, but the government won't put money into that because it isn't in their interest to do so, it would negate their dedicated campaign to concentrate as much wealth as possible at the top of the tree in the hope that it will trickle down and then they won't have to worry about those who can't afford their own homes. Cloud cuckoo land! It's never worked that way and it never will.

It's highly unlikely that supply would ever reach demand and the initiative to build such homes would be a much needed boost to the economy creating many long term jobs.

I feel very sorry for that woman's family and the poor driver, they have been left with a terrible burden, but I don't blame her. She was one of the most vulnerable in our society, victimised by a short-sighted, socially irresponsible government and cracked under the strain. Lay the blame where it belongs, at Cameron's feet.


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## ypauly (May 13, 2013)

AlisonM said:


> Building new social housing is the answer, but the government won't put money into that because it isn't in their interest to do so, it would negate their dedicated campaign to concentrate as much wealth as possible at the top of the tree in the hope that it will trickle down and then they won't have to worry about those who can't afford their own homes. Cloud cuckoo land! It's never worked that way and it never will.
> 
> It's highly unlikely that supply would ever reach demand and the initiative to build such homes would be a much needed boost to the economy creating many long term jobs.
> 
> I feel very sorry for that woman's family and the poor driver, they have been left with a terrible burden, but I don't blame her. She was one of the most vulnerable in our society, victimised by a short-sighted, socially irresponsible government and cracked under the strain. Lay the blame where it belongs, at Cameron's feet.


We disagree on the woman in question but I do agree with much of what you have said but would add

It's not just Cameron though is it? especially the social housing problem that existed long before he took office. Solving this problem i.e making sure that everybody has a suitable property to live in would send other property prices on a downward slide. it has happened before and unfortunately we don't have leaders that are prepared to make it happen again.

It is short sighted though but show me a government in the last 40 years that hasn't been.


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## FM001 (May 13, 2013)

ypauly said:


> Just 1 straw in how many thousands. millions it shows that it wasn't the losing the benefit that killed her, it was her unrational reaction to it's withdrawl. She decided to end it but in doing so in the way she did she ensured she would ruin at least one other life before she went.




 

Shakes head in disbelieve..


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## Steff (May 13, 2013)

Toby don't you get that she was selfish to drag somepoor lorry driver into this, what the hell did he do to warrant that..  And please don't say I have no understanding on suicide I do.


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## FM001 (May 13, 2013)

Steff said:


> Toby don't you get that she was selfish to drag somepoor lorry driver into this, what the hell did he do to warrant that..  And please don't say I have no understanding on suicide I do.




Sadly its not something that enters the mind in that moment of utter despair where someone takes their own life, to the outsider it may seem a selfish act but the workings of the mind at that critical time is void of all rational thoughts.


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## ypauly (May 13, 2013)

toby said:


> Sadly its not something that enters the mind in that moment of utter despair where someone takes their own life, to the outsider it may seem a selfish act but the workings of the mind at that critical time is void of all rational thoughts.



It was a mind rational enough to point the finger and lay the blame.


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## Steff (May 13, 2013)

toby said:


> Sadly its not something that enters the mind in that moment of utter despair where someone takes their own life, to the outsider it may seem a selfish act but the workings of the mind at that critical time is void of all rational thoughts.



She wrote in her letter to her family don't blame yourself blame the government so she had enough  rational thought to lay the blame somewhere


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## FM001 (May 13, 2013)

Steff said:


> She wrote in her letter to her family don't blame yourself blame the government so she had enough  rational thought to lay the blame somewhere




Best we leave it there I think.


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## am64 (May 13, 2013)

from cradle to grave ....we we once so proud of this shinning example ...

the crazy thing about this bedroom tax as it will cost the housing benefit more for smaller property in the 'private' sector ...ie should i need housing benefit it would cost 2x more for a 1 bed flat where I live than the 3 bed 'social' house we currently reside....

many years ago i was the designer for some social housing that won awards ...it was designed on the principals of 'homes for life' and recognised the needs of providing decent housing in a non transient community...to maintain 'community' it was hailed as progressive ...there were no 1 bed properties ...as folks need change throughout there lives...

the bedroom tax will effect many ...from the single parents to have space for the estranged children to stay, to the grandparents in the 'family' home who provide much needed grandchild care .... 

tis a sad thing


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## Steff (May 13, 2013)

toby said:


> Best we leave it there I think.



Yup that's fine by me


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## ypauly (May 13, 2013)

Interestingly the samaritans commented.  
Suicide prevention charity Samaritans said "the act of taking your own life is seldom the result of a single factor".


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## Donald (May 13, 2013)

The full facts of this case may never be known tragic as it is, as for blame it cannot be laid fully at anyone's door. It is human nature to look for someone to blame and as toby said we best leave it there.


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