# NHS plans to deploy ‘Dad’s Army’ of retired doctors if Covid-19 spreads



## Northerner (Mar 1, 2020)

Former health professionals could be brought out of retirement under emergency plans being considered by the government to combat the spread of coronavirus.

News of the potential “Dad’s army” deployment comes as NHS bosses warn that the service will struggle if Covid-19 takes hold in Britain.

Yesterday a further three people in England tested positive for the virus, bringing the total number of confirmed cases in the UK to 23. Two of the patients had recently travelled back from Italy, while the other had returned from Asia, according to the chief medical officer, Prof Chris Whitty.

The three cases – in Gloucestershire, Hertfordshire and Berkshire – are being investigated, and any individuals who had contact with them are being traced.









						NHS plans to deploy ‘Dad’s Army’ of retired doctors if Covid-19 spreads
					

Government pandemic preparation plans to include ‘war room’ of experts




					www.theguardian.com
				




Right, so recruit the age group most vulnerable to severe consequences from the virus to have the greatest contact? Have you had the call yet @mikeyB?


----------



## grovesy (Mar 1, 2020)

I also wonder how this will work as to keep my registration I would have had to done study, and 300 hours of practice over 3 years. I have ex colleagues who have recently let their registrations lapse as they were not working enough hours on the hospital bank to maintain. Plus we had to pay fees to keep on the register.


----------



## Docb (Mar 1, 2020)

I get the feeling that it is yet another looks good on paper exercise.


----------



## grovesy (Mar 1, 2020)

Docb said:


> I get the feeling that it is yet another looks good on paper exercise.


Exactly.


----------



## Annette&Bertie (Mar 1, 2020)

This is really scary, and one wonders where it will go.   I live in Scotland where there are no cases * yet.  
*


----------



## Docb (Mar 1, 2020)

Coronavirus is a lot less scary than the idea of Mikeyb turning up at your bedside in his chariot and poking you with his elbow cruch.


----------



## Ljc (Mar 1, 2020)

Docb said:


> I get the feeling that it is yet another looks good on paper exercise.


Ditto


----------



## Ralph-YK (Mar 1, 2020)

There were already retired doctors working in the nhs. The second cardiologist I was under had already retired when I was passed onto him.
I wonder how widespread this is.


----------



## Thebearcametoo (Mar 1, 2020)

I understand the dads army shorthand for an idea but it does ignore that a large percentage of retired doctors are women 

We sometimes have retired GPs doing locum work at our surgery with mixed results (not usually with medical issues but with process of onward treatment if they’re not regulars at the surgery). I figure any doctors who still want to be working and are capable would pick up bank work already so I don’t know that there are that many suitable candidates floating around.


----------



## Robin (Mar 1, 2020)

My GP just retired, I’m sure she was looking forward to a long break, not being press ganged into returning!


----------



## Annette&Bertie (Mar 1, 2020)

I believe that if two of my former male GPs had not reired in the past 3 years, I would have remained with my previous practice as they were both terrific no nonsensen doctors.,


----------



## Northerner (Mar 1, 2020)

Robin said:


> My GP just retired, I’m sure she was looking forward to a long break, not being press ganged into returning!


It's not as though the government have engendered a lot of goodwill over the past decade - a lot of doctors and nurses left the profession early because of the working conditions, so it would be interesting to know what sort of pool the government are expecting to draw on. I know personally I would not go back to jobs I left in the past because of the working conditions


----------



## mikeyB (Mar 1, 2020)

I’m no longer licenced to practice medicine. The GMC don't know where I live, so I’m safe from any begging letters. For sure, I don’t need or want the money, HMRC know where I live


----------



## grovesy (Mar 1, 2020)

mikeyB said:


> I’m no longer licenced to practice medicine. The GMC don't know where I live, so I’m safe from any begging letters. For sure, I don’t need or want the money, HMRC know where I live


Unfortunately though I am no longer registered with NMC, I have lived at the same address since the 80s. I did have letter a few years ago about returning to practice,  I just threw it in the bin.


----------



## Northerner (Mar 1, 2020)

Well, we're going to have 50,000 new nurses and 6,000 new doctors by the end of this parliament, so I suppose they must already be up to a few hundred at least by now


----------



## grovesy (Mar 1, 2020)

Matt Hancock most probably  thinks so.


----------



## atoll (Mar 1, 2020)

maybe amazon can start selling DIY intubation kits?


----------



## Ralph-YK (Mar 1, 2020)

Northerner said:


> It's not as though the government have engendered a lot of goodwill over the past decade - a lot of doctors and nurses left the profession early because of the working conditions, so it would be interesting to know what sort of pool the government are expecting to draw on. I know personally I would not go back to jobs I left in the past because of the working conditions


I heard some HCP talking about agency's. One was considering leaving the hospital (as 'regular staff) and doing agency instead. Cause of the money. 
If there is more money for these returners I wonder if that will attract some retirees.


----------



## grovesy (Mar 1, 2020)

It is not as simple as if their relevant registrations, CRB checks, and updates, are not in place. I have been reading today that some people with relevant skills are not been allowed to do things when moving to new trusts till they have had the new trusts training.


----------



## atoll (Mar 1, 2020)

if anybody is in any doubts about the severity of this virus they should watch this.
my take on this thread,they would be better putting the retired doctors and nurses on manning the 111 network.
and get all our young healthy medical students on the hospital wards
,if they have a question they can then call a retired 111 expert on a direct line


----------



## Eddy Edson (Mar 1, 2020)

atoll said:


> if anybody is in any doubts about the severity of this virus they should watch this.
> my take on this thread,they would be better putting the retired doctors and nurses on manning the 111 network.
> and get all our young healthy medical students on the hospital wards
> ,if they have a question they can then call a retired 111 expert on a direct line



One of the key points he makes here, as in his group's written report https://www.who.int/docs/default-so...na-joint-mission-on-covid-19-final-report.pdf is how important very widespread "passion and determination" and sense of duty on the part of individuals has been for containment: self-isolation without being coerced, hygiene measures, acceptance of disuptions etc etc. Not just dependent on govt actions.


----------



## atoll (Mar 2, 2020)

Eddy Edson said:


> One of the key points he makes here, as in his group's written report https://www.who.int/docs/default-so...na-joint-mission-on-covid-19-final-report.pdf is how important very widespread "passion and determination" and sense of duty on the part of individuals has been for containment: self-isolation without being coerced, hygiene measures, acceptance of disuptions etc etc. Not just dependent on govt actions.



Hearts and Minds as they say in the army,the 2 best places to aim for


----------



## Eddy Edson (Mar 2, 2020)

atoll said:


> Hearts and Minds as they say in the army,the 2 best places to aim for



One of the WHO's points is that China's success so far has been more due to individual local action than govt interventions, contradicting some people's belief that it takes an authoritarian regime. 

At this point it seems that the best msgs govt can be giving are something like:

- Wash yr hands a lot.
- Work out how you're going to self-isolate if you get it 
- Get screened if you have contact or symptoms
- Stopping this thing will be up to you

(And obviously govt needs to be able to support wide-scale screening and contact tracing, as well as beefing up care resources.)


----------



## mikeyB (Mar 2, 2020)

There’s no evidence that our government is making any plans, apart from their advice to put the burden on us. What has our PM said about plans? Same as he’s said about the floods devastating parts of the country. B****r all.


----------



## Northerner (Mar 2, 2020)

mikeyB said:


> There’s no evidence that our government is making any plans, apart from their advice to put the burden on us. What has our PM said about plans? Same as he’s said about the floods devastating parts of the country. B****r all.


Even the advice about self-isolating isn't clear to me - does it mean if you live with anyone then they have to SI as well? What about things like getting deliveries from things like ASDA or Amazon - are you allowed to take things off the delivery man at the door, or are you supposed to get them to leave it outside and run off? Actually, what about the delivery men - they will be coming into contact with a wide number of people, might deliveries be stopped? Questions, questions  My impression is that the government are keeping their fingers crossed that it all blows over, like the floods and whatever we end up with after the EU negotiations - just say as little as possible and keep away from the media


----------



## Eddy Edson (Mar 2, 2020)

Northerner said:


> Even the advice about self-isolating isn't clear to me - does it mean if you live with anyone then they have to SI as well? What about things like getting deliveries from things like ASDA or Amazon - are you allowed to take things off the delivery man at the door, or are you supposed to get them to leave it outside and run off? Actually, what about the delivery men - they will be coming into contact with a wide number of people, might deliveries be stopped? Questions, questions  My impression is that the government are keeping their fingers crossed that it all blows over, like the floods and whatever we end up with after the EU negotiations - just say as little as possible and keep away from the media



NHS on self-isolation: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/self-isolation-advice/


----------



## grovesy (Mar 2, 2020)

I did hear a concerned delivery driver saying they know they deliver to people who are Immune Compremised.


----------



## atoll (Mar 2, 2020)

I think people don't actually understand what "ISOLATION"  means ie NO CONTACTS,no trips to the supermarket,no driving around in the car,no deliveries and ONLY visits from people with full PPE on .
Those who have not been putting a bit of extra shopping aside for the last 4 weeks to get them through 2-6 weeks at home are in for a big surprise when the first cordon sanitaire goes up.
All those preppers on youtube telling you to get ready are starting to look not so silly after all......


----------



## mikeyB (Mar 2, 2020)

I've got around three weeks of food at the moment- including 6 bags of jelly babies. Trouble is, Tesco had no cans of diet IrnBru, so not all necessities were covered. I doubt Tesco will stop deliveries anyway. If that happens, I'm a bit stuffed. Dying of starvation in a coronavirus epidemic would be so embarrassing.


----------



## grovesy (Mar 2, 2020)

mikeyB said:


> I've got around three weeks of food at the moment- including 6 bags of jelly babies. Trouble is, Tesco had no cans of diet IrnBru, so not all necessities were covered. I doubt Tesco will stop deliveries anyway. If that happens, I'm a bit stuffed. Dying of starvation in a coronavirus epidemic would be so embarrassing.


The way I read the link posted by @Eddy Edson reads as if delivers are allowed. I believe those in quartine in Wuhan, were receiving food delivers to their homes.


atoll said:


> I think people don't actually understand what "ISOLATION"  means ie NO CONTACTS,no trips to the supermarket,no driving around in the car,no deliveries and ONLY visits from people with full PPE on .
> Those who have not been putting a bit of extra shopping aside for the last 4 weeks to get them through 2-6 weeks at home are in for a big surprise when the first cordon sanitaire goes up.
> All those preppers on youtube telling you to get ready are starting to look not so silly after all......


Not everyone has the means or space to store 4 weeks worth of food stuff.


----------



## atoll (Mar 2, 2020)

I'am sure at this very moment the army are opening those bunkers full of food left over from the cold war and will be ready to deliver MRE to those that have not made arrangements before hand.


----------



## Ljc (Mar 2, 2020)

I’ve been getting extra supplies in in the hope they won’t be needed. 
luckily I’ve the room


----------



## Eddy Edson (Mar 2, 2020)

WHO director general's comments today worth a look: https://www.who.int/dg/speeches/det...the-media-briefing-on-covid-19---2-march-2020

South Korea comments are interesting. Worst-hit country outside China; lots of new cases being reported. The good aspect of that is that it means efforts to track and screen are actually working & it looks like containment is working also, for the moment. And the raw CFR from the last published WHO update is ~0.5%.

WHO director general:


_Korea’s situation also underlines that this a unique virus with unique features. This virus is not influenza.

We are in unchartered territory. We have never before seen a respiratory pathogen that is capable of community transmission, but which can also be contained with the right measures.

If this was an influenza epidemic, we would have expected to see widespread community transmission across the globe by now, and efforts to slow it down or contain it would not be feasible.

But containment of COVID-19 is feasible and must remain the top priority for all countries._

Similarly, the China experience. Ex-Hubei, surveillance and containment are working, if you trust the reported numbers. Bugger-all new cases, and as of last report *no* new deaths.

Washington state is looking to be on the cusp of ballooning now. Will surveillance/containment measures work there, or will it be more Iran-like?


----------



## mikeyB (Mar 3, 2020)

In the US Trump is just saying wash your hands - much like our invisible PM. He has decimated and closed down public health organisations and the organisations which would have dealt expertly with such an outbreak. It also means no US support to contain Ebola in Africa as a side effect.


----------



## Eddy Edson (Mar 3, 2020)

WHO Director-General today, on comparison with flu:

_To summarize, COVID-19 spreads less efficiently than flu, transmission does not appear to be driven by people who are not sick, it causes more severe illness than flu, there are not yet any vaccines or therapeutics, and it can be contained – which is why we must do everything we can to contain it. That’s why WHO recommends a comprehensive approach.

These differences mean we can’t treat COVID-19 exactly the same way we treat flu.

But there are enough similarities to mean that countries are not starting from scratch. For decades, many countries have invested in building up their systems to detect and respond to influenza.

Because COVID-19 is also a respiratory pathogen, those systems can, should and are being adapted for COVID-19._






						WHO Director-General's opening remarks at the media briefing on COVID-19 - 3 March 2020
					






					www.who.int


----------



## atoll (Mar 4, 2020)

Eddy Edson said:


> WHO Director-General today, on comparison with flu:
> 
> _To summarize, COVID-19 spreads less efficiently than flu, transmission does not appear to be driven by people who are not sick, it causes more severe illness than flu, there are not yet any vaccines or therapeutics, and it can be contained – which is why we must do everything we can to contain it. That’s why WHO recommends a comprehensive approach.
> 
> ...



that's great to know that they are now comparing it to a moderate to highly infectious strain of flu as less infections!

how come with such low figures did 1 korean woman manage to spread it to over 400 people
or on a cruise ship presumably 1 person infect 705 under a fairly strict quarentine.

i have not checked italy totals today but doubling every 2 days seems about right.

seems almost as if the WHO and our government want it to spread otherwise with the figures in hand human traffic could easily be limited weeks ago,as could non essential travel public gatherings with minor economic impacts.


----------



## Eddy Edson (Mar 4, 2020)

atoll said:


> that's great to know that they are now comparing it to a moderate to highly infectious strain of flu as less infections!
> 
> how come with such low figures did 1 korean woman manage to spread it to over 400 people
> or on a cruise ship presumably 1 person infect 705 under a fairly strict quarentine.
> ...



Spread is a puzzle. I'm in no way qualified to have an opinion, but this is the Intenet, so maybe: From China it appears that you need on avg 4+ days close contact with an infected person to get infected, versus ~1 day for flu.  So to that extent, slower spreading.

However, presumably at least in part to do with the novelty of the virus, if you do have extended close contact, you are much more likely to get infected, versus the situation with flu.

So in contexts where people are in close quarters for a few days or more, one infection can spread really quickly.  Examples: the cruise ship, apartment buildings in Wuhan, nursing home in Seattle, church group in Sth Korea, ummmm ... dunno in Italy.

And it explains why isolation/distancing have been very effective for breaking chains and containing.

- Brief contact with maybe asymptomatic carrier => flu: some chance of infection; coronavirus: few asymptomatic carriers & small chance of infection.

- Extended close contact with symptomatic carriers=> flu: good chance of infection; coronavirus: extremely good chance of infection.


----------



## atoll (Mar 4, 2020)

it is almost as if it was" a designer virus "to solve western governments pension,welfare and elderly care funding issues,taking out quickly, the old ,the sick , smokers and immunosuppressed whilst leaving the young and working age population virtually untouched.


----------



## Eddy Edson (Mar 4, 2020)

atoll said:


> it is almost as if it was" a designer virus "to solve western governments pension,welfare and elderly care funding issues,taking out quickly, the old ,the sick , smokers and immunosuppressed whilst leaving the young and working age population virtually untouched.



Not very efficiently, but maybe it's just a not very efficient conspiracy, like in an Austin Powers movie.


----------



## atoll (Mar 4, 2020)

Eddy Edson said:


> Not very efficiently, but maybe it's just a not very efficient conspiracy, like in an Austin Powers movie.



or dads army...………!
mind you,our news are not quoting the WHO 3.4% death rate and seem convinced 1% is an easier figure to work with,so might be more efficient than we are led to believe...


----------



## Northerner (Mar 4, 2020)

atoll said:


> it is almost as if it was" a designer virus "to solve western governments pension,welfare and elderly care funding issues,taking out quickly, the old ,the sick , smokers and immunosuppressed whilst leaving the young and working age population virtually untouched.


Here's a mad conspiracy theory from Facebook   Manages to incorporate 5G and anti-vax 



> "The Chinese were all given mandatory vaccines last fall. The vaccine contained replicating, DIGITIZED (controllable) RNA which were activated by 60Ghz mm 5G waves that were just turned on in Wuhan (as well as all other Countries using 60Ghz 5G ) with the “smart dust” that everyone on the globe has been inhaling through chemtrails. That’s why when they say someone is “cured”, the “virus” can be “digitally” reactivated at any time and the person can literally drop dead. ￼The Diamond Princess Cruise ship was SPECIFICALLY equipped with 60Ghz 5G. It’s basically remote assassination. Americans are currently breathing in this “smart” dust through chemtrails. Think of it like this..... add the combination of vaccines, chemtrails (smart dust) and 5G and your body becomes internally digitized and can be remotely controlled. A person’s organ functions can be stopped remotely if one is deemed non-compliant. Wuhan was a test run for ID2020. The elite call this 60Ghz mm 5G wave the “V” wave (Virus) to mock us. Trump has created a space force in part to combat this weaponized technology. We need to vehemently REJECT the attempted “mandatory vaccine” issue because our lives depend on it."


----------



## Eddy Edson (Mar 4, 2020)

Northerner said:


> Here's a mad conspiracy theory from Facebook   Manages to incorporate 5G and anti-vax



Facebook makes me feel all dirty.


----------



## PaulG (Mar 4, 2020)

It made me smile when they spoke of older more vulnerable people voluntarily self isolating.
Stay indoors, no visitors, lock the doors...... Nothing new there then.


----------

