# DUK Facebook status



## shiv (May 24, 2010)

"*One of the things we're doing in Diabetes Week is dispelling the myths around diabetes. We've launched 5 new images to help with this, which mention some of the most popular myths we hear about:

Diabetes myth: Eating too much sugar causes diabetes
Diabetes myth: Type 2 diabetes is mild diabetes...
Diabetes myth: If you have diabetes you can't drive
Diabetes myth: People with diabetes can't play sport
Diabetes myth: Having diabetes means you can?t do certain jobs

Visit our website and Share these new images via Facebook so all your friends and family can help spread the word!

http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Get_involved/Diabetes-Week/Diabetes-myths/*"

this has had several comments on it, including one from myself.

number 5? it's not a myth, it's fact, whether we like it or not. yet again they have failed to distinguish between type one and type two - take Tez, he's type 2 and a bus driver, yet i'd never be allowed near a bus with type 1!

it just feels like a real *headdesk* moment for their sake.


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## bex123 (May 24, 2010)

hmmm i saw that status thismorning....mixed feelings about it..thier obviously trying to take steps in the right direction but they definatley need to make clear definitions between type 1 facts and type 2 facts , they cant make blanket statements about the two as a whole as the care and regimes are very different....ad i thought there was no way u could join the army with diabeties? thats a job ( dunno mabey im wrong ) also the emergancy services?? think maabey a little research is in order and doing 2 fact posts one for type 1 and 1 for type 2?


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## rossi_mac (May 24, 2010)

I accept that certain jobs can't be done because of Diabetes, but in principle they are trying to be positive saying we can and try to live a "normal" life, 
I'm sure there are other conditions, medical physical mental or other that would stop those afflicted to get a particular job but if you go down that road you've got no chance.

For example there must be (okay no real knowledge) lots of restrictions to join the Army, so to rule of diabetes is a bit unfair. I accpet the bus/public transport driver one, but as I said lets try and be positive, the truth takes far too long to spell out and people would switch off.

General blanket statements between T1 & T2 are possible, it's the same disease (I got that from the name!) the care is similar, but also can be different, aren't we all different, some T1's vary their care & management  just as signifaicantly from other T1's and the same for T2's.

Can't we be happy they are trying to put out some good news/positive vibes out there?

 Sorry if I've had a go, I rarely do I just think, although your points are correct maybe your missing the point, or maybe I am! If I am I'm sorry.

Cheers 

Rossi


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## shiv (May 24, 2010)

rossi_mac said:


> I accept that certain jobs can't be done because of Diabetes, but in principle they are trying to be positive saying we can and try to live a "normal" life,
> I'm sure there are other conditions, medical physical mental or other that would stop those afflicted to get a particular job but if you go down that road you've got no chance.
> 
> For example there must be (okay no real knowledge) lots of restrictions to join the Army, so to rule of diabetes is a bit unfair. I accpet the bus/public transport driver one, but as I said lets try and be positive, the truth takes far too long to spell out and people would switch off.
> ...



Rossi, I fully accept that there are certain jobs I can't do. And I appreciate that they are trying to raise awareness, but they're putting out misleading info, again.

My main issue with this is the lack of clarity between type one and type two. As a type 2, you can still drive a bus. As a type one, I can't. So them saying 'diabetes means you can't do certain jobs' is totally crude, as they haven't even clarified what type of diabetes they're talking about, being as the two are treated so differently in every way.

The point is as the leading diabetes charity, they should be being exceptionally clear and clarified about what they are putting out to the public. Which they haven't been.


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## Freddie99 (May 24, 2010)

Once again I am thoroughly disillusioned with DUK. 

Bex,

As for the army that is a no no with either kind of D. You're lucky to be kept in if you're diagnosed whilst in the forces, mostly they are medically discharged. I am just a little fed up with that.

Once again DUK has shot us all in the foot I feel.


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## Vicsetter (May 24, 2010)

Looks like DUK aren't the only ones that are ill-informed.  Type 2s cannot have a PSV (public service vehicle) licence if they are on insulin - it's the insulin bit that governs the licence not the type of diabetes. I think it might be hard to be a commercial pilot as well.  This means I cannot drive our local community bus and I'm on the committee.


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## Akasha (May 24, 2010)

My otherhalf left school having being accepted onto a public services (police) course at college. 
Being diagnosed between school and college, he was adviced to drop to course. 

Although, he has recently looked again, and he poss can join police as a mostly desk based job. 

I remember being told the jobs i cant aply for are (may be wrong as im remembering)
Police / Fire/ ambulance services.
Horse Jocky (this on baffled me)

I also remember no scuba diving aswell (someone want to confirm that?)


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## aymes (May 24, 2010)

I have a type 1 friend who scuba dives. As I understand it from him, there's not an outright ban on scuba diving, although quite a few organisations choose to restrict it themselves.


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## rachelha (May 24, 2010)

I have been scuba diving.  I did have to sign a vast number of discliamer forms before going tough.


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## Vicsetter (May 24, 2010)

All sort of things affect scuba diving, suspect you could get a job doing it, but otherwise you probably have problems with insurance.  I was asked to sign a waver for scuba lessons because of high blood pressure.


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## jax (May 24, 2010)

Off of Diabetes UK themselves... 



Diabetes UK said:


> OK, let?s just get it over with and start with the jobs you aren?t allowed to do. The reason you aren?t allowed to do them is because blanket restrictions have been placed on people with insulin-dependent diabetes applying for the jobs, which include:
> 
> ?	the Armed Forces
> ?	jobs requiring a large goods vehicle licence or a licence to drive certain passenger carrying vehicles (PCV's)
> ...


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## SilentAssassin1642 (May 24, 2010)

re the army thing, i can really see their point. After all with the armed forces, the whole point of them is to protect this country and if it means war, it means war. Imagine if they sent a T1 diabetic out to the front lines and said T1 had a huge hypo right there. It would endanger them and those around them.

Don't get me wrong, I believe that its wrong that these bans are in place. And if I could I would totally join the RAF (I like the uniform ), but looking at it logically? I don't think the armed forces will ever allow a T1 OR T2 diabetic out into active service


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## JoeFreeman (May 24, 2010)

Hi all,

Unintentionally caused a bit of a stir with this, so sorry to all of you who have been annoyed by this. We have posted a response on Facebook (it's quite lengthy, but felt it should offer as much of an explanation as possible) and I thought we should put it on here as well, just in case some of you don't get to see it.

If you've got any comments, I'll be grateful to read them either on here or on Facebook. I've made sure that all involved with these messages, from creation to sign-off, are aware of what is being said.

Thanks,

Joe

Digital Media Team
Diabetes UK

*Here's the post, cut and pasted from Facebook:*

"Sorry for taking a while to come back to you all - there are a lot of comments and we wanted to give the best possible reply. Having just read this post back, it's quite long, but we wanted to make sure we covered as much as possible on what is a difficult topic.

Diabetes is surrounded by myths, and over the past few months we have been asking ... See morefor people to send in their own experiences of diabetes myths (you can view a selection of these published on our website here: http://bit.ly/abwYKQ). They give a flavour of the scale of misinformation that circulates about diabetes. These myths and your comments about subjects like driving and working with diabetes are just some of the reasons why we want to bring to light diabetes myths during Diabetes Week and answer them with the facts.

The issues around working with diabetes is, as your comments suggest, complex. Whilst it is the case that the armed forces are the only organisation exempt from the DDA and are therefore able to operate a blanket ban, it is a fact that there can be separate issues with employers. This is why we are highlighting this myth now and why Diabetes UK continues to campaign to have all bans lifted, and replaced with individual assessments. We believe individual assessment is the only fair, reasoned and accurate way to gauge a person?s ability to do perform specific duties. As part of an individual assessment, issues around risk assessment and management are included and there are many instances where any perceived risk can be easily managed if good practice is followed.

Individual assessments should always be based on the individual and generalised assumptions about people with diabetes should never be made. Diabetes UK have set up an Advocacy Service to support people around individual employment issues.

We are highlighting this myth to raise awareness of these unfair restrictions and to help in the on-going campaign to make individual assessment compulsory.

With regards to driving with diabetes, we are currently awaiting a formal consultation from the DVLA on how the recent EC Directive, which will replace the DVLA?s blanket ban on all insulin dependent drivers of Group 2 vehicles with a system of individual assessment, will be implemented. Highlighting this myth is should bring attention to the wide-spread untruth that people with diabetes cannot drive and help us continue to campaign for the implementation of this individual assessment."


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## SilentAssassin1642 (May 24, 2010)

as i've just posted on facebook Joe, that myth should really be reworded. You have upset a lot of us, myself included. And at the most it should be taken down. Facts and figures need checking first, which it seems you haven't done (yet again it seems DUK get it wrong!), and you've gone and proven to me at least why JDRF are the better charity.

It's a shame. Because a part of me really wants to support DUK. I'm really not sure if I can any more.

I wanted to join the RAF - and I can't. I wouldn't be surprised if I get turned down in an archaeology job because of my diabetes. You can't dispel a myth that isn't a myth - its FACT. There are certain jobs that we can't do and all you guys on facebook seem to be doing is repeating yourself and going around in circles. Oh, and not distinguishing between T1 and T2 - its all about being insulin controlled after all. If I were a T2 and NOT taking insulin, i could do a lot more of those jobs that a T1/T2 who takes insulin. PLEASE make yourself clear!


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## Vicsetter (May 24, 2010)

It's bad enough that DUk are trying to dispel a Myth (job restrictions) that is true but on the page headed: 

Diabetes myth: If you have diabetes you can't drive

The second sentence turns it into: Nevertheless, the myth that people with diabetes are not safe persists

a) there are 2 myths here, the first is true for a very select few (your GP can demand the cancellation of your licence).
b) where is the evidence for the second, has there been a survey?  Motor insurance companies work from accident statistics and I am not aware of premiums being higher for diabetics (insulin dependant or otherwise) so they don't think we are any less safe. (That's a big thank you to those guys).
Maybe this myth comes from the DVLA who restrict your licence when you are on insulin.

As an aside I personally object to the DVLA thinking that I am a less safe driver because I am on insulin, when I could be non diabetic but be an alcoholic and still have a full licence.  Also you don't have to be on insulin to have a hypo.


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## aymes (May 24, 2010)

Hmmm, guessing I must be in the minority here but have to say, I read the sentence differently. I took it as being doesn't diabetic mean you're unable to do certain jobs and the myth that needs dispelling is amongst employers implementing blanket bans. But that's just the way I saw them, another example of how the written word can be interpreted differently I guess.

As a campaign I quite like it actually. I remember a very powerful awareness campaign a few years back, I think it was for an epilepsy charity, which did a simiar thing, large posters with a 'myth' in large writing to draw attention then the reality below. I remember thinking at the time that a similar one for diabetes would be good.


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## shiv (May 24, 2010)

I see the point of the campaign, and obviously support any campaign the dispell myths.

Problem is - for type ones, this is no myth, it is fact. And that's where my issue lies - DUK has made no attempt to distinguish between type 1 and type 2 diabetes. Once again we have been lumped together, when in fact the two conditions are quite different - as can clearly be seen in the case of employment!

Joe, the response given was totally irrelevant to the responses to the status on facebook. The majority of people pointed out quite rightly that there was no myth about it!


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## shiv (May 24, 2010)

aymes said:


> Hmmm, guessing I must be in the minority here but have to say, I read the sentence differently. I took it as being doesn't diabetic mean you're unable to do certain jobs and the myth that needs dispelling is amongst employers implementing blanket bans.



Problem is, the campaign isn't just aimed at employers - it's aimed at the general public, who are now going to think that ALL diabetics can do any job - which as much as I love the idea, just isn't true!


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## JoeFreeman (May 24, 2010)

I didn't work on this campaign, but am promoting it online and managing the comments on Facebook and Twitter.

What aymes says is how I believe this myth in particular was intended to be taken, us being against blanket bans. I think this sentence in our Facebook response is key: "... Diabetes UK continues to campaign to have all bans lifted, and replaced with individual assessments".

It is difficult when we have some conflicting information elsewhere on our site though, which I want to address... but the point stands that we are trying to make getting a job easier for people with diabetes, so they are not immediately refused a job. In my very personal opinion, the message hasn't worked in this instance.

Sam, I've read your blog post (and DM'd you on Twitter actually) and there's another blog posted on Facebook that I've not read yet - but it's never nice to hear negative opinions about the charity, but it was never the intention to cause these problems and negative feelings. I do understand what you're though, and am not happy that we've evoked this strength of feeling.

I'm making sure that everyone at involved with this is aware of all comments - from on here, Facebook and blogs, and will aim to feedback anything that is said and decisions that are made. It's tricky to manage, but I'm particularly aware of the importance of the feedback of our supporters and how we can use this to improve.

Joe


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## shiv (May 24, 2010)

JoeFreeman said:


> I didn't work on this campaign, but am promoting it online and managing the comments on Facebook and Twitter.
> 
> What aymes says is how I believe this myth in particular was intended to be taken, us being against blanket bans. I think this sentence in our Facebook response is key: "... Diabetes UK continues to campaign to have all bans lifted, and replaced with individual assessments".
> 
> ...




Joe, thanks for your response. I think the huge problem here is the wording of it - when you explain it as you have done above, it makes much more sense. But you can see by the 50+ responses on facebook that when read as it is, it comes across as being incorrect information (which it is, to be frank).

The other blog posted on there is mine.


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## SilentAssassin1642 (May 24, 2010)

JoeFreeman said:


> Sam, I've read your blog post (and DM'd you on Twitter actually) and there's another blog posted on Facebook that I've not read yet - but it's never nice to hear negative opinions about the charity, but it was never the intention to cause these problems and negative feelings. I do understand what you're though, and am not happy that we've evoked this strength of feeling.
> 
> 
> 
> Joe



Cheers Joe, please be aware that my comments aren't aimed at any individual at all, but rather based on the experiences I have had with DUK in the past. I am how can you put it? somewhat disillusioned about the whole thing having in the past had so much conflicting information from them. Even back in the day when it was called the BDA, I wasn't a fan - and because my parents put on a massive fundraising bash for them and never got a thank you for their work. So it goes back a while. What I read with this campaign really did take the biscuit however.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who is disillusioned with DUK at all. And as I've said its not directed at any individual but rather the whole, and the years and years of well, you get what I'm saying I'm sure.


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## am64 (May 24, 2010)

i think its great that Joe being a member of the forum is able to take this feedback to the campaign organisers ...'customer feedback' and 'customer satisfaction' are all buzz words and is regarded as one of the key targets for most organisations such as DUK ....


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## JoeFreeman (May 25, 2010)

Part of my job is to manage our online engagement with people with diabetes/supporters and that includes both promoting our messages and listening to feedback, making sure we take it on board and use it to better form our work in future. It's pretty tricky when things like this happen (!) but I'm hoping we can get something good out of it.

I am also in the process of putting together an online survey to find out more about our online audiences - those who use our website, Facebook, Twitter and this forum hopefully - to find out what works, what could be better and what we can do in future. We don't really know enough about these audiences, so it should help to improve things. I'll post more information when that's all sorted.

If anyone else has any more comments about the myth, please do let me know.

Thanks

Joe


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## NiVZ (May 25, 2010)

Hello,

I'm sitting on the fence - I can see what DUK are trying to do but I agree some of it was badly worded.  It's good we have someone like Joe actively taking our comments on board and feeding this back to DUK.

It must be a difficult tightrope to get enough information into a campaign slogan/tagline without making it too wordy and therefore not so catchy/memorable and I feel this is what has happened here.

There are a lot of myths surrounding Diabetes and it's good that DUK have tried to tackle some of these.  

Employers attitude to people with diabetes are often very outdated and based on old studies when peoples blood sugar were not so well controlled as they are today with all our medical and technological advances.

NiVZ


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## NiVZ (May 25, 2010)

I do like the pics that accompany the campaign on the main DUK website






















NiVZ


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## NiVZ (May 25, 2010)

NiVZ


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## rachelha (May 25, 2010)

NiVZ said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm sitting on the fence - I can see what DUK are trying to do but I agree some of it was badly worded.  It's good we have someone like Joe actively taking our comments on board and feeding this back to DUK.
> 
> ...



I am with Nivz on this one.  I think the campaign is a good idea, and if the headlines make people mean futher that is fantastic.  The headlines are not perfect, but it is such a complicated disease I know I would have struggled to find something short and eye catching which made things clearer.


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## SilentAssassin1642 (May 25, 2010)

It's that last one that needs sorting out I think >.<


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## NiVZ (May 25, 2010)

Agreed, it's the last one that sticks out as being very misleading.  The rest are fine IMHO.  

Not sure how else they could have worded it though as I understand they want to make a point about all aspects of diabetic life - eating, driving, sport, and working.

Maybe "Let's extinguish the idea that EVERY person with diabetes can't do certain jobs"

NiVZ


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## am64 (May 25, 2010)

NiVz thanks for posting the pics ...how about 
good idea ...now if joe can get DUK to change the wording on that one ...however im sure its already gone to print as such !


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## JoeFreeman (May 25, 2010)

Some news on this subject - just posted this on Facebook (annoyed I couldn't put it on the wall itself - was slightly too long...):

"Thank you for all your comments about the diabetes myths we posted yesterday. The myth about jobs has caused quite a reaction and is a complicated issue, and having listened to the feedback given by yourselves and others we have decided to remove this myth about diabetes and emplyment for now.

The message behind the myth - that we are against blanket bans on emplying people who have diabetes - is still vaild, and something that we are campaigning against. Individual assessments are the best way forward and this is something we want to see become common practice. All your feedback will help us get this message across to people in a much better way, so thank you to everyone who has commented."

Still think this is a very important point we should be raising awareness about though. If anyone has any suggestions as to what wording would work, that would be quite helpful. I can make sure this is again fed back to the relevant people. 

Thanks

Joe


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## ypauly (May 25, 2010)

Fortunately I havn't come accross any restrictions that stop me doing what I want yet. Though I now hold a temporary driving liscence.


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## NiVZ (May 25, 2010)

Amazing what you can do with Paint Shop 

NiVZ


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## SilentAssassin1642 (May 25, 2010)

NiVZ said:


> Amazing what you can do with Paint Shop
> 
> NiVZ



this is much better, I actually agree with this.


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## ypauly (May 25, 2010)

It has just occured to me that many diabetics have not helped in this area. I once worked with one that used it to get an easier job. and currently work with one that used it to get off night shift.
While people are pulling such stunts, you may even know somebody yourself employers will be guarded.

It is probably another case of the few spoiling it for the many.


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## JoeFreeman (May 25, 2010)

Thansk NiVZ. Do people think the original text that accompanyed the image still works with this new one...?

"Having diabetes should not stop you from getting and keeping a job. In spite of the Disability Discrimination Act (DDA) the Armed Forces is the only employer where a blanket ban on employing people with diabetes still exists. Diabetes UK campaigns to lift discriminatory blanket bans. There has been a growth in evidence for individual medical assessment and Fire and Police services use this method. Individual assessment offers a rational, safe and legally defensible system of assessment for recruitment."


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## am64 (May 25, 2010)

good one nivz ! and joe thank you for responding so quickly to this ....come on folks feedback works!!


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## Northerner (May 25, 2010)

ypauly said:


> It has just occured to me that many diabetics have not helped in this area. I once worked with one that used it to get an easier job. and currently work with one that used it to get off night shift.
> While people are pulling such stunts, you may even know somebody yourself employers will be guarded.
> 
> It is probably another case of the few spoiling it for the many.



I think this is where the idea of individual assessment comes in. It is possible that some people who have poorer control may need to have adjustments made to their work. If people are just using it as an excuse and without a legitimate need then yes, it does throw a poor light on things.


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## NiVZ (May 25, 2010)

Hi Joe,

The text in that paragraph is pretty good.  It gets over the key points that:

1. Being diabetic should NOT stop you getting and keeping most jobs.
2. The army are the only employers who still blanket ban us
3. Other employers (Police, Fire, etc) base it on indivdual assessment (which is the way it should be) and DUK are actively campaigning for more/all employers to do this.

Good to know there's someone like you at DUK taking things on board and acting so quickly.

Thanks,

NiVZ


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## jax (May 25, 2010)

On the getting out of night work/shift work thing... it used to be advised that diabetics didn't do shift work, but that's changed now that there are new insulin types and regimes available that are flexible. 

However not everyone are on these regimes, or have difficulty controlling their levels which make managing even more variables a real bad idea. On the first insulin regime I was put on I wouldn't have been able to do night shift, as eating and sleeping times were pretty dictatorial.

Now I have the flexibility of basal/bolus but I still struggle managing my blood sugar and working night shift would make it even harder... Although I'd probably still do it, due to my dedication to my health being pretty slim


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## LisaLQ (May 25, 2010)

shiv said:


> I see the point of the campaign, and obviously support any campaign the dispell myths.
> 
> Problem is - for type ones, this is no myth, it is fact. And that's where my issue lies - DUK has made no attempt to distinguish between type 1 and type 2 diabetes. Once again we have been lumped together, when in fact the two conditions are quite different - as can clearly be seen in the case of employment!
> 
> Joe, the response given was totally irrelevant to the responses to the status on facebook. The majority of people pointed out quite rightly that there was no myth about it!



But they're not very different if you're a type 2 on insulin, are they?  You're focusing on the wrong thing.

It seems every day on FB there's someone whinging about being "lumped in" with type 2s.  I didnt realise it was a competition about who's got it worse.

Reminds me of the Monty Python Yorkshiremen.

Type 2:  I'm type 2 diabetic.
Type 1:  Type 2?  Luxury!  I cant fly a plane!

I dont understand why people are so keen to distinguish between the two, when it is the treatment, not the illness, causing these problems.


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## rossi_mac (May 25, 2010)

Well said LisaLQ

and thanks for putting a monty python clip in my head!!

Part of the problem is human nature, you get all sorts, and there ain't not one line that can cover one thing!

Rossi.


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## shiv (May 25, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> But they're not very different if you're a type 2 on insulin, are they?  You're focusing on the wrong thing.
> 
> It seems every day on FB there's someone whinging about being "lumped in" with type 2s.  I didnt realise it was a competition about who's got it worse.
> 
> ...



Lisa, I wasn't trying to say that being type 2 is a luxury, that I've got it worse or anything along those lines - please accept my apologies if it came across that way. Poor choice of wording on my behalf. 

What I was trying to get at is raising awareness of type one as a condition - with all the media coverage about type two, a lot of people I have met (and this is just a personal example) have a lot of misconceptions about me when they hear I am diabetic - they immediately assume I am type 2 and that I control my condition through diet and exercise, not MDI. I'm trying to raise awareness of type one so that people understand the condition better, but if Diabetes UK (the leading charity for people with diabetes) can't make the distinction between the two types, it doesn't help.


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## Vicsetter (May 25, 2010)

How does 'individual assessment' work, does this involve a doctors report or is it just question and answer? 

I believe DVLA require a doctors report on your hypo awareness, but is this done and who pays for it.

Obviously any system is going to be open to abuse, but currently I do feel the majority of us are being unfairly victimised for our diabetes, in terms of driving licence.  I however would like to know that there was a system in place to ensure that those on the road (especially in large vehicles and Public service transport) had their condition under control.


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## SilentAssassin1642 (May 25, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> But they're not very different if you're a type 2 on insulin, are they?  You're focusing on the wrong thing.
> 
> It seems every day on FB there's someone whinging about being "lumped in" with type 2s.  I didnt realise it was a competition about who's got it worse.
> 
> ...



no one is saying T2 is a luxury Lisa, of course its not. But as Shiv says if DUK can't get it right then there is really no hope is there? The media get it wrong enough as it is, always assuming the diabetes is ALWAYS type 2.

I've had it myself - telling someone I'm diabetic and then them saying "oh but you're not fat" or "You don't look like you need to control it through diet and excersise".


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## Vicsetter (May 25, 2010)

shiv said:


> What I was trying to get at is raising awareness of type one as a condition - with all the media coverage about type two, a lot of people I have met (and this is just a personal example) have a lot of misconceptions about me when they hear I am diabetic - they immediately assume I am type 2 and that I control my condition through diet and exercise, not MDI. I'm trying to raise awareness of type one so that people understand the condition better, but if Diabetes UK (the leading charity for people with diabetes) can't make the distinction between the two types, it doesn't help.



Why make the distinction?  The problem lies with labelling the condition, a lot of people on this board are confused with the T1.5 LADAs, MODYs and whatever, so what chance does joe public stand.  We are diabetics.  I haven't heard of a Type 1 paraplegic (maybe only 1 leg).  There are T2s that are on the same treatment regime as T1s (bolus and basal insulin) so the difference is basically technical for the outsider.

What we need is an informed treatment of diabetes by one of the soaps, done properly the majority of the country would be informed almost overnight. (come on casualty/holby).


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## shiv (May 25, 2010)

Vicsetter said:


> Why make the distinction?  The problem lies with labelling the condition, a lot of people on this board are confused with the T1.5 LADAs, MODYs and whatever, *so what chance does joe public stand*.



That's a very good point - these conditions are different, none are better or worse or anything like that, but they are different. DUK should be attempting to make the disctinction so that people do understand that they are different conditions caused by different things - not making general statements about all the conditions.

I'm not trying to rock the boat or upset anyone, it's just a passion of mine - raising awareness of type one.


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## Vicsetter (May 25, 2010)

Strange, before I was diagnosed I knew nothing about T2 diabetes, but did know about T1 and insulin.  

About 50 yrs ago my great aunt came to stay and she was an insulin dependant diabetic (I presume T1), ex matron of Great Ormond street and had been injecting with a massive great needle for so long there was very little place left she could get the needle in.  My point being that I knew there were people who had a condition that required injections.  Did T2 exist 50 yrs ago?  probably not.


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## shiv (May 25, 2010)

I do see your point and I quite agree - in fact, I was discussing the same thing with my mum a few days ago (about type 2 being rare in the decades gone by). Currently there is huge media focus on type 2, quite rightly. But it does leave a lot of people assuming everyone with diabetes has type 2 - obviously people who have any knowledge of the condition aren't going to assume that, but a lot of people will.


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## ukjohn (May 25, 2010)

Shiv, Please explain the difference between your type 1 situation and my type 2...I notice that SilentAssassin objects to people refering to her as a type 2 because they suggest that she isn't FAT..that to me sounds insulting to type 2s who are not all fat..I am by no means fat and I am on 5 insulin injections a day just like you...its Time some of the type 1s in this forum think before they speak ..

John


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## shiv (May 25, 2010)

clearly i have upset people - for which i apologise.


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## ukjohn (May 25, 2010)

Shiv....I for one am not upset by your comments, I think that you contribute a lot of sensible stuff to this forum,  I have just put my observations and thoughts across, after all, debate with different views is good and that way we can all learn from each other...I do'nt see the need for you to apologise..

John


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## SilentAssassin1642 (May 25, 2010)

lol, so apparently I've insulted people now? for stating what people say to me? 

wow

looks like my forum break is long overdue...


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## Northerner (May 25, 2010)

We do appear to have drifted away somewhat from the 'Myths' topic of the thread. The origins of the disease can vary, and this is what it is difficult to get across to Joe Public - are you diabetic because of a lack of insulin or because of insulin resistance? Most of the time here I will only check a person's type if it helps me to understand a question they are asking or the treatment options available to them.

So difficult to get such a complex issue across in a soundbite without upsetting some section or other - it is a real skill and unfortunately what is produced will often fail.

p.s. I must admit, I now have the Monty Python 'Four Diabetics' sketch running through my mind


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## jax (May 25, 2010)

Hmmm.. this is a difficult debate to step into! But... I will give it a go... (please no one take offence... none is intended at all)

I think DUK purposely doesn't distinguish the two as not to give the impression that one is more or less serious then the other... which is quite right...

However I do wish there was more education on their being different types/different treatments... not due to any this is worse or that is worse, its just peoples make wrong assumptions and accusations based on this incorrect understanding of this generalised diabetes... and well, they can be anything from amusing to hurtful... and its hard not to be sensitive to something that's so significant in our lives. 

I do get so fed up with people making assumptions about my treatment and lifestyle because they have a friend/relative with diabetes that's potentially doing things very different.

And i guess that's what this myth dispelling is all about, to stop people making wrong assumptions, but those types of mistakes wont stop happening if it isn't educated that there are different types and totally different types of treatments, even within those types...


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## LisaLQ (May 25, 2010)

shiv said:


> Lisa, I wasn't trying to say that being type 2 is a luxury, that I've got it worse or anything along those lines - please accept my apologies if it came across that way. Poor choice of wording on my behalf.
> 
> What I was trying to get at is raising awareness of type one as a condition - with all the media coverage about type two, a lot of people I have met (and this is just a personal example) have a lot of misconceptions about me when they hear I am diabetic - they immediately assume I am type 2 and that I control my condition through diet and exercise, not MDI. I'm trying to raise awareness of type one so that people understand the condition better, but if Diabetes UK (the leading charity for people with diabetes) can't make the distinction between the two types, it doesn't help.



They do make the distinction though - on the website there is lots of information about the different types.



SilentAssassin1642 said:


> no one is saying T2 is a luxury Lisa, of course its not. But as Shiv says if DUK can't get it right then there is really no hope is there? The media get it wrong enough as it is, always assuming the diabetes is ALWAYS type 2.
> 
> I've had it myself - telling someone I'm diabetic and then them saying "oh but you're not fat" or "You don't look like you need to control it through diet and excersise".



So what you're saying is that type 2 diabetics are fat and can control it through diet and exercise?  Gee, what about all those skinny type 2s who are on insulin, are they wearing Harry Potter's invisibility cloak?   Surely the answer to that is - it's a horrible stereotype whatever type you are.  Teach them that not all diabetics (either type 1 or 2) can control their diabetes with diet alone, and that obesity only increases the risks of one type of diabetes (of which there are several), does not cause it.



Vicsetter said:


> Why make the distinction?  The problem lies with labelling the condition, a lot of people on this board are confused with the T1.5 LADAs, MODYs and whatever, so what chance does joe public stand.  We are diabetics.



Exactly.

I think there are a lot of "type 1s" who believe that "type 2s" have got what they deserve, and hold a lot of animosity towards us - some probably not even realising how much it can hurt.  You dont see cancer sufferers saying "oh they have lung cancer, they smoke and brought it on themselves, dont lump me in with them!".  Well, you probably do, but I would hope the majority would say "whatever the cause, we're in similar boats here - let's support each other".

All I've seen since I was diagnosed is people saying "I have/my child has/my friend has type 1 diabetes, I'm sick of these fat people whinging about type 2, they have it so easy and could have prevented it".  No.  We couldn't.

Honestly - I've been to animal shows with less competition in them!


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## SilentAssassin1642 (May 25, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> So what you're saying is that type 2 diabetics are fat and can control it through diet and exercise?  Gee, what about all those skinny type 2s who are on insulin, are they wearing Harry Potter's invisibility cloak?



I really wish people would stop twisting what I've said  What I said was that this is what I have had said to ME. I have then gone on to explain to these people that NO, it's not always like that. My own grandfather is T2 and the skinniest rake you can imagine.

I'm really very upset at all this ganging up. I'm not going to be posting on this thread or this forum any more. Catch you all later.


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## LisaLQ (May 25, 2010)

Dearie me, since when has responding to someone been "ganging up"?  I can only suggest that if your feelings are so easily hurt, it's probably not a good idea to step into a debate about something that affects so many people.  Not everyone is going to agree with you, or be fluffy about their feelings.


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## Vicsetter (May 25, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> Honestly - I've been to animal shows with less competition in them!



You should have seen me when my dog slipped his lead and ran out of the ring - no competition there


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## SilentAssassin1642 (May 25, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> Dearie me, since when has responding to someone been "ganging up"?  I can only suggest that if your feelings are so easily hurt, it's probably not a good idea to step into a debate about something that affects so many people.  Not everyone is going to agree with you, or be fluffy about their feelings.



no need to be sarcastic. 

And since when was what I said making out that I was so hurt by people saying I can't be diabetic because I'm not fat?! Yeah, I didn't actually say that so there was really no need for you to say what you did either. 

Obviously I've "insulted" a lot of people and am not welcome here any longer.

see you all later


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## Northerner (May 25, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> ...So what you're saying is that type 2 diabetics are fat and can control it through diet and exercise?
> 
> .......All I've seen since I was diagnosed is people saying "I have/my child has/my friend has type 1 diabetes, I'm sick of these fat people whinging about type 2, they have it so easy and could have prevented it".  No.  We couldn't.



That isn't what SA was saying Lisa, it was something that was said to her. I would also dispute your statement about the animosity between the different types, not true at all about this forum. Please people, don't perpetuate these circular arguments or they'll just keep getting closed down.


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## LisaLQ (May 25, 2010)

Dearie me, I dont know where you get the impression of me being sarcastic (I thought I'd pretty much said it as it was, so to speak, I'm not taking the mick!).  I can only assume you're having a bad day, and hope you're feeling a bit less emotional tomorrow and realise it's a bit silly to flounce off over something so minor.


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## LisaLQ (May 25, 2010)

Northerner said:


> That isn't what SA was saying Lisa, it was something that was said to her. I would also dispute your statement about the animosity between the different types, not true at all about this forum. Please people, don't perpetuate these circular arguments or they'll just keep getting closed down.



I've seen it on here personally (in this thread), but the thread is about Facebook and people's statuses, is it not?


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## margie (May 25, 2010)

SilentAssassin1642 said:


> I really wish people would stop twisting what I've said  What I said was that this is what I have had said to ME. I have then gone on to explain to these people that NO, it's not always like that. My own grandfather is T2 and the skinniest rake you can imagine.
> 
> I'm really very upset at all this ganging up. I'm not going to be posting on this thread or this forum any more. Catch you all later.



Hi Sam - I had thought you had gone and was about to say that you had said that you respond to comments by trying to educate the people commenting.

I don't think that people are trying to twist - just that they didn't understand what you were saying.  

Its along the lines of if you continually have someone saying you are green  with yellow spots therefore you are stupid, then when someone else says you are green with yellow spots your first reaction is to think they are calling me stupid. Then when you calm down you realise that was never said.


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## LisaLQ (May 25, 2010)

I've been asked not to respond but I want to repeat - when I say there is animosity, I am talking in general - as the theme of the thread was about FB messages, that's where I see a lot of animosity.  I was not accusing anyone of anything - just pointing out it's ok to say DUK have got their facts wrong, but they can only do so much, the rest has to come from us, and when none of us can agree on anything - that's not going to happen any time soon.


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## margie (May 25, 2010)

Hi Lisa - my message crossed with about half a dozen -it took me so long to type. 

I think maybe diabetes UK should maybe take the approach of highlighting the no two diabetics are the same approach - and highlight it with people who have shown how they overcame the stigmas that others attributed to them.


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## LisaLQ (May 25, 2010)

Absolutely, and I do think that awareness of the different types and distinctions between the two are very important.  I just think, as has happened on this thread, there is no way to say something that everyone will agree on.  You can please some of the people some of the time...etc etc (or whatever that quote is, I'm running on half my usual level of caffeine today and am multi-tasking feeding kids, snakes and guests LOL).


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## Northerner (May 25, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> Absolutely, and I do think that awareness of the different types and distinctions between the two are very important.  I just think, as has happened on this thread, there is no way to say something that everyone will agree on.  You can please some of the people some of the time...etc etc (or whatever that quote is, I'm running on half my usual level of caffeine today and am multi-tasking feeding kids, snakes and guests LOL).



Whatever you do, don't feed the kids to the snakes and the snakes to the guests!


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## LisaLQ (May 25, 2010)

It's a good job I dont normally multitask, as that is probably quite likely if I did!


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## JoeFreeman (May 25, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> "...just pointing out it's ok to say DUK have got their facts wrong, but they can only do so much, the rest has to come from us, and when none of us can agree on anything.



I think this highlights that the whole subject of diabetes is difficult to approach -how can we as Diabetes UK give out a message that covers everyone when so many people have different experiences? Is there a right answer? It's difficult, and I think that's really where we struggle sometimes, and you can't please all of the people all of the time... Do people agree? And then there's the prevention message that focuses on Type 2 and perhaps builds on the negative impression of diabetes as a whole...

I've been following all this with interest, I do hope that no one does take things said to heart. 

I've said before on here and when I met some of you in London that I'm more than happy to take on board comments from everyone here and feed them back as and when appropriate - I think it's the only way we (DUK) will really succeed with our messages.

Anyway, I'm probably going to turn off the laptop now and enjoy my guilty pleasure viewing of "Independance Day"... 

All the best,

Joe


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## jax (May 25, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> I think there are a lot of "type 1s" who believe that "type 2s" have got what they deserve, and hold a lot of animosity towards us - some probably not even realising how much it can hurt.



On a side note, I'm sure absolutely no one feels like that.


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