# Vegan Diet



## JPR7 (Oct 10, 2017)

I am a worried mature mother ...  My son in law has type 2 diabetes which is causing him many problems.  He and my daughter have now embarked on a strict vegan diet (partly due to animal rights) also eliminating all dairy.  I am fearful this is too much too soon.  Is it a good direction to follow.  I feel lost.


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## MikeTurin (Oct 10, 2017)

I'll go for a vegan ketogenic diet. http://meatfreeketo.com/
Or follow a vegan meal plan
https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/enjoy-food/eating-with-diabetes/meal-plans-/vegan
http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitness/food/planning-meals/meal-planning-for-vegetarians/


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## everydayupsanddowns (Oct 10, 2017)

Hello @JPR7

Welcome to the forum.

Like any diet which restricts certain foods... Actually... scratch that... like ANY diet (by which I mean any form of eating) it is important to pay attention to the various nutrients and elements that the body needs, both the biggies (fat, carbohydrate, protein) and the little wiffly things (fatty acids, vitamins, minerals blah blah).

It is perfectly possible to eat a 'normal', unrestricted Western diet based on what you think is reasonable, and what you personally enjoy eating and end up with something that is mostly carbs and very little in terms of nutrients.

A vegan diet does present some challenges, certainly in what many of our T2 members here find works well for them (eg eggs being a useful go-to, and meals which are based on meat and veggies rather than high carb loads). However there are lots and lots of replacement items these days which can really help to enrich a vegan diet and make it varied and enjoyable.

Hope your son in law finds a way of eating that suits him. There are online tools that can help you evaluate your own diet for micro/macro nutrients. He may find vegan forums which have helpful hints too.


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## Copepod (Oct 10, 2017)

Welcome @JPR7.
Your son in law and daughter aren't the first couple to become vegan and have to deal with type 2 diabetes at the same time. As others have said, vegan forums may be good sources of information.
A couple of questions: 
Are they already vegetarian? Friends of mine (not with any type of diabetes) have told me it's easier to give up meat first, then animal products, in steps. 
What are the many problems caused by your son in law's T2D? Problems such as complications or problems dealing with the condition - diet / exercise / medication(s)?


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## Grogg1 (Oct 10, 2017)

I eat some vegan meals as my daughter vegan and providing i watch carbs my numbers are good.  E g tonight I had a veggie shepherd pie.  Soya mince with leeks, cauliflower, carrots and onion gravy with thin layer of mash with diary free Marge and oat milk.  BG before 5 and 3 hours later 6.  I buy zero carb rice and pasta from health food shop, have tofu etc.  I have to limit root veg which I adore but I can have in moderation.  I tolerate onions and tomato well.  I'm not a fan of coconut based cheeses though.  

I am getting tempted to go vegan so will enjoy the above links.


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## JPR7 (Oct 11, 2017)

MikeTurin said:


> I'll go for a vegan ketogenic diet. http://meatfreeketo.com/
> Or follow a vegan meal plan
> https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/enjoy-food/eating-with-diabetes/meal-plans-/vegan
> http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitness/food/planning-meals/meal-planning-for-vegetarians/


Thank you for this info ... looks like I´m in for a lot of reading. Have signed up for the vegan ketogenic monthly recipes so I can can continue to cook meals for my new vegan family!


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## JPR7 (Oct 11, 2017)

Copepod said:


> Welcome @JPR7.
> Your son in law and daughter aren't the first couple to become vegan and have to deal with type 2 diabetes at the same time. As others have said, vegan forums may be good sources of information.
> A couple of questions:
> Are they already vegetarian? Friends of mine (not with any type of diabetes) have told me it's easier to give up meat first, then animal products, in steps.
> What are the many problems caused by your son in law's T2D? Problems such as complications or problems dealing with the condition - diet / exercise / medication(s)?


They became vegetarian at the beginning of the year but they are committed to becoming Vegan and when I visited them for a week recently I was pleasantly surprised by some of the meals they served me.  My SiL is good with exercise but has found medications a problem.  He has trialed a number of different types to no avail which led him to research more deeply into all food types and combinations and how it affects him.  He has had some improvement since becoming vegetarian but believes he needs to try vegan.


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## MikeTurin (Oct 11, 2017)

@JPR7 
I made some Sunday and I have eaten em as a side dish theroasted peppers. Almost this recipe: I've used instead of mint a bit of parlsley
http://www.myrecipes.com/recipe/roasted-peppers-with-black-olives
I like also the peperonata
http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2015/08/peperonata-bell-pepper-italian-recipe.html
That is also great with roasted rabbit or cock, but of course is not for vegans
Is also great with old polenta, but it's no good for diabetes. If you add some hot peppers I suppose that you could try some tofu

or Ratatouille remember that potaoes are to avoid and also don't put cheese
http://allrecipes.com/recipe/14048/summer-vegetable-ratatouille/
http://allrecipes.com/recipe/259162/ratatouille-provencale/
(you can present it as in the movie too if you like to get fancy)


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## MikeTurin (Oct 11, 2017)

JPR7 said:


> They became vegetarian at the beginning of the year but they are committed to becoming Vegan and when I visited them for a week recently I was pleasantly surprised by some of the meals they served me.  My SiL is good with exercise but has found medications a problem.


If they're still vegetarian, so they eat eggs and dairy products some vegetarian omelette or frittata with herbs and vegetable could be a good choice.
Or like the "tomini al verde" http://www.gustissimo.it/ricette/antipasti-formaggio/tomini-al-verde.htm


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## Martin Canty (Oct 11, 2017)

I have not tried it but many people are proclaiming the benefits of Low Fat High Carb vegan diets (one site comes to mind https://www.forksoverknives.com). I think that part of the success is in the food preparation, i.e. made from scratch using quality ingredients & avoiding refined products.

IMHO I think that our biggest problem today is reliance on highly processed convenience foods.


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## JPR7 (Oct 12, 2017)

Martin Canty said:


> I have not tried it but many people are proclaiming the benefits of Low Fat High Carb vegan diets (one site comes to mind https://www.forksoverknives.com). I think that part of the success is in the food preparation, i.e. made from scratch using quality ingredients & avoiding refined products.
> 
> IMHO I think that our biggest problem today is reliance on highly processed convenience foods


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## JPR7 (Oct 12, 2017)

forksoverknives is an interesting site.  Particularly the oil free vegan recipes which I know will be of interest to my SiL.  Thanks for the tip.


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## Mucker86 (Oct 14, 2017)

I’m type 1 and vegan. There’s so many health benefits when utilising a healthy vegan diet. (It is possible to be a very unhealthy vegan!)
To begin with I’d advise to look recipes up online or invest in a cookbook that suits your style of eating/cooking. Preparation, time and thought is key. I know health food stores and fresh foods can be costly at times but there are lots of ways to do this on the cheap. 
I track all my food through ‘myfitnesspal’ so I can see throughout the day my levels of carbs, fats and sugars. I was only diagnosed with type 1 4.5 weeks ago so I’ve had to adjust what I eat, when and quantities etc but the general consensus at the moment is that a vegan diet has been beneficial from the onset for me controlling diabetes. 

Some type 1 vegans are claiming they can eat more carb (better forms of carbohydrates) and are taking less insulin. Over time I will update my thoughts on this.


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## JPR7 (Oct 14, 2017)

Mucker86 said:


> I’m type 1 and vegan. There’s so many health benefits when utilising a healthy vegan diet. (It is possible to be a very unhealthy vegan!)
> To begin with I’d advise to look recipes up online or invest in a cookbook that suits your style of eating/cooking. Preparation, time and thought is key. I know health food stores and fresh foods can be costly at times but there are lots of ways to do this on the cheap.
> I track all my food through ‘myfitnesspal’ so I can see throughout the day my levels of carbs, fats and sugars. I was only diagnosed with type 1 4.5 weeks ago so I’ve had to adjust what I eat, when and quantities etc but the general consensus at the moment is that a vegan diet has been beneficial from the onset for me controlling diabetes.
> 
> Some type 1 vegans are claiming they can eat more carb (better forms of carbohydrates) and are taking less insulin. Over time I will update my thoughts on this.





Mucker86 said:


> I’m type 1 and vegan. There’s so many health benefits when utilising a healthy vegan diet. (It is possible to be a very unhealthy vegan!)
> To begin with I’d advise to look recipes up online or invest in a cookbook that suits your style of eating/cooking. Preparation, time and thought is key. I know health food stores and fresh foods can be costly at times but there are lots of ways to do this on the cheap.
> I track all my food through ‘myfitnesspal’ so I can see throughout the day my levels of carbs, fats and sugars. I was only diagnosed with type 1 4.5 weeks ago so I’ve had to adjust what I eat, when and quantities etc but the general consensus at the moment is that a vegan diet has been beneficial from the onset for me controlling diabetes.
> 
> Some type 1 vegans are claiming they can eat more carb (better forms of carbohydrates) and are taking less insulin. Over time I will update my thoughts on this.



Thank you this is encouraging info.  Would be interested in your progress ...


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## Ditto (Oct 14, 2017)

Hello JPR7 and welcome to the forum.  My daughter and I would luv to be vegan because of the animals. Well done that couple.


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## Martin Canty (Oct 16, 2017)

Mucker86 said:


> Some type 1 vegans are claiming they can eat more carb (better forms of carbohydrates) and are taking less insulin. Over time I will update my thoughts on this.


I would be interested seeing the results of this as my thoughts are that the total carb load would be the same, just that time of delivery to the blood stream may be altered with low GI foods.... i.e. lower but extended spike. It's not like us T2's who are mainly affected by insulin resistance & our diet can mitigate the insulin resistance (to a degree).


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## Grogg1 (Oct 16, 2017)

Mucker86 said:


> I’m type 1 and vegan. There’s so many health benefits when utilising a healthy vegan diet. (It is possible to be a very unhealthy vegan!)
> To begin with I’d advise to look recipes up online or invest in a cookbook that suits your style of eating/cooking. Preparation, time and thought is key. I know health food stores and fresh foods can be costly at times but there are lots of ways to do this on the cheap.
> I track all my food through ‘myfitnesspal’ so I can see throughout the day my levels of carbs, fats and sugars. I was only diagnosed with type 1 4.5 weeks ago so I’ve had to adjust what I eat, when and quantities etc but the general consensus at the moment is that a vegan diet has been beneficial from the onset for me controlling diabetes.
> 
> Some type 1 vegans are claiming they can eat more carb (better forms of carbohydrates) and are taking less insulin. Over time I will update my thoughts on this.


How long have you been Vegan?  My daughter been doing it almost 2 years now and says she will never go back but agrees about having an unhealthy vegan diet !!


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## Martin Canty (Oct 16, 2017)

Grogg1 said:


> agrees about having an unhealthy vegan diet !!


It's so easy to have an unhealthy diet with any lifestyle, as I found out despite eating (for the most part) "healthy" for most of my life.... However, on "restrictive" diets (mine LCHF) we do need to be extremely mindful of the nutritional content.


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## Mucker86 (Oct 16, 2017)

Grogg1 said:


> How long have you been Vegan?  My daughter been doing it almost 2 years now and says she will never go back but agrees about having an unhealthy vegan diet !!


I’ve been vegan for 18 months now and can definitely say that there are plenty of benefits to be rewarded with such as loss of weight, sleep and full body wellness. Ethically it’s good but I’m not an activist in anyway and choose to focus on the many health benefits it brings instead.


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## Mucker86 (Oct 17, 2017)

Martin Canty said:


> I would be interested seeing the results of this.


I’ll keep you posted with my own personal experiences with insulin dosage on a vegan diet.


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## Grogg1 (Oct 17, 2017)

Mucker86 said:


> I’ve been vegan for 18 months now and can definitely say that there are plenty of benefits to be rewarded with such as loss of weight, sleep and full body wellness. Ethically it’s good but I’m not an activist in anyway and choose to focus on the many health benefits it brings instead.



My daughter originally did it due to acne which did improve.  She doesn't need to lose weight as she's quite petite but her sleep is horrendous as sadly she seems to have inherited insomnia from me.  She's so passionate about being plant based both for health and ethical reasons that her personal trainer credits her with his decision to go vegan.  He is only two months in and already superfit but he says his body has changed for the better and it hasn't impacted on his ability to do extreme fitness challenges. 

One thing I have noted is that "home made" vegan cakes impact on my BG is not too extreme.  I had a cake made for my daughter's homecoming and had a generous slice, complete with icing and 2 hours later I sat at 8.5 and by hour 3 it was dropping.  A small slice of shop bought cake would have sent me higher.  I often go for vegan dessert when out, unless it's just fruit salad, as  usually so much more thought has gone into flavours, texture etc. that they are a real treat.  As a type 2 I cannot adjust my medication to deal with my dietary choices so have to try to balance my diet and everyone needs cake in their life occasionally!


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## Mucker86 (Oct 17, 2017)

Grogg1 said:


> My daughter originally did it due to acne which did improve.  She doesn't need to lose weight as she's quite petite but her sleep is horrendous as sadly she seems to have inherited insomnia from me.  She's so passionate about being plant based both for health and ethical reasons that her personal trainer credits her with his decision to go vegan.  He is only two months in and already superfit but he says his body has changed for the better and it hasn't impacted on his ability to do extreme fitness challenges.
> 
> One thing I have noted is that "home made" vegan cakes impact on my BG is not too extreme.  I had a cake made for my daughter's homecoming and had a generous slice, complete with icing and 2 hours later I sat at 8.5 and by hour 3 it was dropping.  A small slice of shop bought cake would have sent me higher.  I often go for vegan dessert when out, unless it's just fruit salad, as  usually so much more thought has gone into flavours, texture etc. that they are a real treat.  As a type 2 I cannot adjust my medication to deal with my dietary choices so have to try to balance my diet and everyone needs cake in their life occasionally!


There are many famous world strong men who are vegan. Patrik Baboumian who represents Germany holds many world records and 2014 Mr Universe Barny Du Plessis is also vegan. 
Veganism is still quite misunderstood and sometimes frowned upon with lack of understanding. You can be whatever you want to be whilst on a vegan diet and I believe that I can be my best on such a diet. There’s no eating restrictions as such because we live in a world now where there are plenty of alternatives. 
Despite already being vegan I will now use my type 1 diabetes as an advantage to be an even better version of myself!


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## Martin Canty (Oct 17, 2017)

Mucker86 said:


> Despite already being vegan I will now use my type 1 diabetes as an advantage to be an even better version of myself!


Love that attitude....


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## Grogg1 (Oct 17, 2017)

Mucker86 said:


> Despite already being vegan I will now use my type 1 diabetes as an advantage to be an even better version of myself!


  Can I ask if you are disappointed that following a plant based diet did not prevent you getting diabetes.  I know you have to have a genetic disposition to getting diabetes but another factor, which could be environmental, is also at play - hence identical twins and only one will develop diabetes.

I only ask as I have a long standing friend  who is a life long vegan (we are talking over 40 years) and he blames a non vegan diet for many ills.  So  when I had breast cancer he told me to give up diary as it causes cancer.   So you can imagine when I told him about my diabetes a year later then he started again telling me how diary was very bad for my health.   I've made this sound like he was tactless but he did it in a caring way and his intention was not for me to blame myself for my ill health.  My daughter is also very anti diary due to hormones etc. added to it and I have absorbed it and my diary consumption has decreased significantly but I'm not noticing any improvement in my control of my diabetes.  i.e. Month 1-3 mainly chicken, veg, cheese and eggs - reduced my hba1c to 42.  Month 4-9 - mainly soya, tofu, veg with drastically reduced amounts of cheese and chicken and virtually no eggs and my hba1c now 43, which is basically no change.  I should keep a detailed food diary but I kept forgetting to complete and then trying to remember what I ate etc. and just lost interest in it.


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## Mucker86 (Oct 17, 2017)

Grogg1 said:


> Can I ask if you are disappointed that following a plant based diet did not prevent you getting diabetes.  I know you have to have a genetic disposition to getting diabetes but another factor, which could be environmental, is also at play - hence identical twins and only one will develop diabetes.
> 
> I only ask as I have a long standing friend  who is a life long vegan (we are talking over 40 years) and he blames a non vegan diet for many ills.  So  when I had breast cancer he told me to give up diary as it causes cancer.   So you can imagine when I told him about my diabetes a year later then he started again telling me how diary was very bad for my health.   I've made this sound like he was tactless but he did it in a caring way and his intention was not for me to blame myself for my ill health.  My daughter is also very anti diary due to hormones etc. added to it and I have absorbed it and my diary consumption has decreased significantly but I'm not noticing any improvement in my control of my diabetes.  i.e. Month 1-3 mainly chicken, veg, cheese and eggs - reduced my hba1c to 42.  Month 4-9 - mainly soya, tofu, veg with drastically reduced amounts of cheese and chicken and virtually no eggs and my hba1c now 43, which is basically no change.  I should keep a detailed food diary but I kept forgetting to complete and then trying to remember what I ate etc. and just lost interest in it.


Initially when I googled type 1 symptoms before going to the hospital my heart sunk for a few minutes as I knew deep down I had diabetes. Me being me I wasn't going to let anything get me down and was already planning my rise back to the top laying on my hospital bed!  

It's true that various foods can have an impact on us positively and negatively and certain choices can become a percentage scenario. I'm a big believer that we are what we are and irrespective of our strengths and weaknesses it's important that we look after ourselves and remain happy. 

As for HBA1C figures keeping a food diary will allow you to look back overtime to see if there is anything that can be improved or changed. Today marks exactly 5 weeks since I've been formerly diagnosed with type 1 and I plan on getting back into the gym for the first time in 5 weeks tomorrow. I will endeavor to write here my thoughts and feelings regarding being vegan and type 1 whilst lifting weights in the gym. Right now I believe I'm still learning how my body is reacting to all things and once things become much clearer I will write more.


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## Matt Cycle (Oct 18, 2017)

Grogg1 said:


> Can I ask if you are disappointed that following a plant based diet did not prevent you getting diabetes. I know you have to have a genetic disposition to getting diabetes but another factor, which could be environmental, is also at play - hence identical twins and only one will develop diabetes.



It wouldn't matter what sort of diet anyone has as that wouldn't influence whether you get T1 diabetes or not.  6 month old babies can get it.  As well as the genetic disposition the thought is it's a virus that triggers the bodies destruction of it's beta cells.


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## Grogg1 (Oct 18, 2017)

Matt Cycle said:


> It wouldn't matter what sort of diet anyone has as that wouldn't influence whether you get T1 diabetes or not.  6 month old babies can get it.  As well as the genetic disposition the thought is it's a virus that triggers the bodies destruction of it's beta cells.


But it's not that simple is it.  Why would a virus make 1 twin develop type 1 but the other twin could also have the same virus but not develop type 1, clearly if it is a virus at fault then something is different in their immune system and is this affected by diet?   As with babies, they can have very different diets, not just either human or cows milk but if breast fed then the milk will reflect the mother's diet.  I know when I was breast feeding I avoided peas as they gave me a windy baby!!

I don't know but it fascinates me.  I'm one of 4 and as a child my mother tried to make me catch chicken pox so all 4 of us could be ill together and she believed it's better to have as a child.  I didn't catch it.  She tried to make me catch other childhood illness too but I caught nothing!  We all lived in same house and generally all ate same meals etc. we even shared baths. Only difference is a very young child I refused to eat meat or fish as I disliked (yes I was the fussy eater of the family!).  As nearly every meal was meat & veg I just ate veg.  In my early twenties I started eating meat and I caught chicken pox off my nephew!!


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## Matt Cycle (Oct 18, 2017)

Grogg1 said:


> But it's not that simple is it.  Why would a virus make 1 twin develop type 1 but the other twin could also have the same virus but not develop type 1, clearly if it is a virus at fault then something is different in their immune system and is this affected by diet?   As with babies, they can have very different diets, not just either human or cows milk but if breast fed then the milk will reflect the mother's diet.  I know when I was breast feeding I avoided peas as they gave me a windy baby!!
> 
> I don't know but it fascinates me.  I'm one of 4 and as a child my mother tried to make me catch chicken pox so all 4 of us could be ill together and she believed it's better to have as a child.  I didn't catch it.  She tried to make me catch other childhood illness too but I caught nothing!  We all lived in same house and generally all ate same meals etc. we even shared baths. Only difference is a very young child I refused to eat meat or fish as I disliked (yes I was the fussy eater of the family!).  As nearly every meal was meat & veg I just ate veg.  In my early twenties I started eating meat and I caught chicken pox off my nephew!!



I think one of the problems is they're not even sure it is a virus that triggers it.  After I was diagnosed I wondered why I'd got it and the research listed in Balance was going on about a strain of the Coxsackie B virus being implicated.  That was over 30 years ago and they're still going on about it now. i.e. they don't really know.   The human body - still lots to learn.


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