# Back from wife's PIP assessment



## Mark Parrott (Nov 15, 2016)

Well, it's all un their hands now.  Assessor seemed pleasant enough, but was a typical box ticker.  The biggest problem was having to walk from the reception to the assessment room.  It was a long walk & my wife was on the verge of collapse when she got there.  There was no mention in her appt letter about this & if this was mentioned, we would've hired a wheelchair.  I'm sure they do this on purpose.


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## mikeyB (Nov 15, 2016)

You are absolutely right about that, Mark, it's a measured distance. If she didn't use a walking aid, that's the higher rate mobility down the pan. Be prepared for an appeal, because clearly walking that distance can cause harm.


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## Mark Parrott (Nov 15, 2016)

She had her walking stick & me to help her all the way.  She also had to stop 3 times.  And her hand swelled up like a balloon due to using the stick.


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## Northerner (Nov 15, 2016)

I find it abhorrent if they lay 'traps' like this, although nothing would surprise me  Let's hope the word has been passed around that the public no longer condone such treatment of vulnerable people and she gets what she is entitled to without hindrance


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## mikeyB (Nov 15, 2016)

You want to bet money on the report saying "can walk x metres using a stick" with no other comment, Mark? Fiver? 

And Northerner, it will get worse, not better. In England, anyway.


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## Ljc (Nov 15, 2016)

I'm keeping everything crossed for your wife Mark.  They are up to all sorts of tricks. On another site I used to go on I heard that they are not above watching people  get out of there cars and walking from the car park.


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## Mark Parrott (Nov 15, 2016)

mikeyB said:


> You want to bet money on the report saying "can walk x metres using a stick" with no other comment, Mark? Fiver?
> 
> And Northerner, it will get worse, not better. In England, anyway.


I know it will go against her.  We are expecting an appeal.  The thing is if she refused to walk that distance,  they would probably say she is refusing the assessment.


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## Mark Parrott (Nov 15, 2016)

Ljc said:


> I'm keeping everything crossed for your wife Mark.  They are up to all sorts of tricks. On another site I used to go on I heard that they are not above watching people  get out of there cars and walking from the car park.


I know they do.  She struggles getting in & out of my car anyway, so quite happy for them to film that.


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## pav (Nov 15, 2016)

Fingers crossed for your wife, it's a bit like the entrance at one place, where the access is via steps or a ramp, then once inside the room is not on the ground floor. No mention or indication that there is a lift and you need to ask to use it. Use the steps in either case bang goes the PIPs.


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## Mark Parrott (Nov 15, 2016)

We had to go up to the 2nd floor.  Thankfully the lift was just inside the door.


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## Diabeticliberty (Nov 15, 2016)

I wish her the absolute very best Mark. It fills me with utter despair to read just what we have become as a society. It's just not right. You know it. I know it and I suspect if they were completely honest the people doing the assessments know it too


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## Lindarose (Nov 15, 2016)

I wish your wife the very best with the assessment. Hoping the powers that be can see her needs are very real.


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## Marsbartoastie (Nov 15, 2016)

What can I say.  The way people are being treated is a flaming scandal


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## AlisonM (Nov 15, 2016)

Both assessments do this to ensure we're telling the truth about how far we can walk at one time. We are carefully observed throughout, indeed the assessment seems to begin from the moment we step through the door. I went to both ESA and PIP assessments with a friend in tow and, of course, I had Rolly along as well being unable to get any distance with just the sticks these days. I do still use them in the house and keep a pair upstairs as well as down, this is simply due to narrow doors and steep stairs. The ESA assessment in my mind was far worse and more stressful for me because that's the one I've had to appeal every time so far, I literally couldn't face that one on my own, it terrified me.

It has to be realised and accepted that, no matter how we might hope the process is going to be fair, it's set up specifically to keep folk from getting access to benefits they may badly need and proceeds from the first assumption that we are all cheating the system in some way and our medical 'experts' are assumed to be such fools that they can't see through anyone who might really be lying. This is the world we live in now.


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## AlisonM (Nov 15, 2016)

PeeEss. I hope you get a good decision and don't have to wait too long for it. I'm still waiting for mine. Sigh


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## Mark Parrott (Nov 15, 2016)

Thanks, Alison.  Just hope the walk didn't kill it.  It was obvious the amount of pain she was in, but the assessor just marched off ahead without looking round.


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## Amigo (Nov 15, 2016)

Sadly many of the assessors seem hardened to the process and the genuine 'sufferers'. Truth is they do get those worthy of a BAFTA performance and it's not fair the way it reflects on the genuine people.


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## Redkite (Nov 15, 2016)

I hope you don't have to appeal, sounds a very sly way of assessing people


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## mikeyB (Nov 15, 2016)

It's not sly, Redkite, it's blatantly obvious, and you'd be surprised how many people are caught out. (That is in War Pension claims). Civilians are much less inclined to cheat, because the rewards aren't as great.

It's easy to spot a faker using a stick, because fakers always carry the stick on the same side as the alleged bad leg

But, and this is a big but, one of the easiest and uncheatable tests for testing the veracity of walking distance is to take the shoes and socks off. Check the heel area for hard skin. If it is there, they are walking just fine. If it's not, they are barely walking at all. This test is NEVER done by an assessor for mobility claims.


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## Northerner (Nov 15, 2016)

mikeyB said:


> Check the heel area for hard skin. If it is there, they are walking just fine. If it's not, they are barely walking at all.


When I broke my femur and couldn't walk for 3 months, all the hard skin disappeared from my feet, I remember being astounded at how soft they became!


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## Owen (Nov 15, 2016)

mikeyB said:


> It's not sly, Redkite, it's blatantly obvious, and you'd be surprised how many people are caught out. (That is in War Pension claims). Civilians are much less inclined to cheat, because the rewards aren't as great.
> 
> It's easy to spot a faker using a stick, because fakers always carry the stick on the same side as the alleged bad leg
> 
> But, and this is a big but, one of the easiest and uncheatable tests for testing the veracity of walking distance is to take the shoes and socks off. Check the heel area for hard skin. If it is there, they are walking just fine. If it's not, they are barely walking at all. This test is NEVER done by an assessor for mobility claims.


Where I would not want dispute your experience, the barefoot test would mean that I would never pass muster, yet when blisters are present I would struggle to make five paces, as part of my condition I have hard and cracked skin. Incidentally I do not have any benefits. I would not be able to use any walking sticks due to loss of strength in my hands (I know get the release operations and they will improve, but I will lose both my jobs if I do this). I wont even go into describing the need for a portal pottie on wheels.


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## mikeyB (Nov 15, 2016)

Yes. I always doubted this as an effective test, until all the hard skin disappeared from my own feet last year. It's still a viable test, but as I say, I've never known it done in a civilian mobility claim.


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## Owen (Nov 15, 2016)

mikeyB said:


> Yes. I always doubted this as an effective test, until all the hard skin disappeared from my own feet last year. It's still a viable test, but as I say, I've never known it done in a civilian mobility claim.


I get the reasoning, but like everything, there are exceptions.


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## Amigo (Nov 15, 2016)

Regular pedicures are clearly in order pre-assessment then


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## mikeyB (Nov 15, 2016)

Pedicure doesn't conceal the shape of the heel pad, though. A pro can spot that.


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## AlisonM (Nov 15, 2016)

mikeyB said:


> It's not sly, Redkite, it's blatantly obvious, and you'd be surprised how many people are caught out. (That is in War Pension claims). Civilians are much less inclined to cheat, because the rewards aren't as great.
> 
> It's easy to spot a faker using a stick, because fakers always carry the stick on the same side as the alleged bad leg
> 
> But, and this is a big but, one of the easiest and uncheatable tests for testing the veracity of walking distance is to take the shoes and socks off. Check the heel area for hard skin. If it is there, they are walking just fine. If it's not, they are barely walking at all. This test is NEVER done by an assessor for mobility claims.


No hard skin on my feets, there used to be though. I do have calluses on my hands though, from clutching at Rolly's handles


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## Mark Parrott (Nov 15, 2016)

My wife has emailed a letter of complaint to them about the lack of information they gave her about access. Now she is totally worn out & can barely move.  Tomorrow she will likely be worse.  Due to the walk, she could barely do any of the movements they told her to do during the assessment.


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## Amigo (Nov 15, 2016)

Mark Parrott said:


> My wife has emailed a letter of complaint to them about the lack of information they gave her about access. Now she is totally worn out & can barely move.  Tomorrow she will likely be worse.  Due to the walk, she could barely do any of the movements they told her to do during the assessment.



Let's hope they make the right decision Mark. These are very stressful, dehumanising experiences!


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## Owen (Nov 15, 2016)

Mark Parrott said:


> My wife has emailed a letter of complaint to them about the lack of information they gave her about access. Now she is totally worn out & can barely move.  Tomorrow she will likely be worse.  Due to the walk, she could barely do any of the movements they told her to do during the assessment.


Go to the doctor and get support, ie extra painkillers, get it on record


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## Mark Parrott (Nov 15, 2016)

Owen said:


> Go to the doctor and get support, ie extra painkillers, get it on record


She is already on the maximum pain killers allowed at the moment, and all they do is slightly take the edge off the pain & make her sleep all day.


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## Owen (Nov 15, 2016)

Mark Parrott said:


> She is already on the maximum pain killers allowed at the moment, and all they do is slightly take the edge off the pain & make her sleep all day.


Still call the doctor, get it on record that this has caused undue pain


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## Mark Parrott (Nov 15, 2016)

Will do.  Thanks.


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## mikeyB (Nov 15, 2016)

Can I ask why you haven't got a foldable wheelchair, Mark? I know the missus has good and bad days, but walking distances are predictable, and you could get out and about more. Plus, it cannot be ignored at DWP assessments. I leave my electric wheelchair parked in the porch for visiting assessors, and the stairlift parked at the bottom of the stairs for those "can you manage stairs" questions. It's not giving in to get a wheelchair. Get a powered wheelchair and she's independent like me.


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## Mark Parrott (Nov 15, 2016)

We just can't afford one at the moment, but also she suffers a lot of pain sitting upright so she couldn't use one for long periods.  We are hoping to use any benefits she gets to buy a chair & even a stairlift.


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## Owen (Nov 15, 2016)

Mark Parrott said:


> We just can't afford one at the moment, but also she suffers a lot of pain sitting upright so she couldn't use one for long periods.  We are hoping to use any benefits she gets to buy a chair & even a stairlift.


Have you seen an occupational therapist


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## Mark Parrott (Nov 15, 2016)

No.  How would she be able to get a referral?  through the GP or hospital?


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## Owen (Nov 15, 2016)

Mark Parrott said:


> No.  How would she be able to get a referral?  through the GP or hospital?


GP can refer, there will be lots of things available to help.


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## Amigo (Nov 15, 2016)

Mark Parrott said:


> No.  How would she be able to get a referral?  through the GP or hospital?



Mark, give your local Social Services Dept a ring (via the Council). They employ Occupational Therapists who can do a full assessment to see what your wife needs to assist her in the house. You may be entitled to a Disabled Facilities Grant towards a stairlift. They'll also advise on mobility aids suited specifically for your wife.

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/social-care-and-support-guide/Pages/equipment-aids-adaptations.aspx


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## AlisonM (Nov 15, 2016)

Mark Parrott said:


> No.  How would she be able to get a referral?  through the GP or hospital?


From either, mine came from my GP originally but was backed up by two consultants as well. You might be able to get grants from the council or Social Services for at least the stairlift. Possibly for the chair as well.


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## mikeyB (Nov 15, 2016)

Probably through the hospital. If you were in Scotland it would be so much easier, with non means tested grants for stairlifts, but the OT will know exactly what is needed in terms of adaptations, and will also know the hoops you have to go through to get financial assistance for a stairlift or bathroom adaptations. If you get full rate mobility as you should, that can be converted into a lease for a mobility scooter or high end electric chair.


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## Mark Parrott (Nov 15, 2016)

Social services in Cambridgeshire charge £99 for a referral.


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## Ljc (Nov 15, 2016)

Mark Parrott said:


> We just can't afford one at the moment, but also she suffers a lot of pain sitting upright so she couldn't use one for long periods.  We are hoping to use any benefits she gets to buy a chair & even a stairlift.


Mark apologies for butting in I'm wondering if your wife would be entitled to borrow some equipment from the NHS loan store, in England such equipment can be accessed by an Occupational therapist a GP can refer you, they come out to you. I don't think they provide stairlifts but you may be able to get a grant to go towards one. The Occupational therapists should know how to get these grants , if your wife has a social worker they too should know  too. 
I assume the grants are means tested, if so it should only be on your wife's income/savings and half of any joint accounts. 
I hope this helps.


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## Mark Parrott (Nov 15, 2016)

Thanks Ljc, we will be researching.


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## Ljc (Nov 15, 2016)

I must learn to type faster lol


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## Amigo (Nov 15, 2016)

Mark Parrott said:


> Social services in Cambridgeshire charge £99 for a referral.



Mark are you absolutely sure? The right to a free community care assesssment under the Care Act 2014 is enshrined in law and I've never heard of any Social Services Dept charging someone for an assessment. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be legal.


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## Amigo (Nov 15, 2016)

Mark Parrott said:


> Social services in Cambridgeshire charge £99 for a referral.



http://www4.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/i...5/making_adaptations_and_changes_to_your_home


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## Ljc (Nov 15, 2016)

Amigo said:


> Mark are you absolutely sure? The right to a free community care assesssment under the Care Act 2014 is enshrined in law and I've never heard of any Social Services Dept charging someone for an assessment. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be legal.


Me neither, they never charged mum for assessments.


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## Mark Parrott (Nov 15, 2016)

Cambridgeshire county council have outsourced their OT dept to a private company called Safe & Well.  Privatisation through the back door.


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## Amigo (Nov 15, 2016)

Mark Parrott said:


> Cambridgeshire county council have outsourced their OT dept to a private company called Safe & Well.  Privatisation through the back door.



I appreciate that may be so Mark but your wife is still entitled to a free assessment and to apply for a Disabled Facilties Grant which OT's assist with. Worth ringing them and checking this out.


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## Mark Parrott (Nov 15, 2016)

Amigo said:


> http://www4.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/i...5/making_adaptations_and_changes_to_your_home


OT referal had been outsourced


Amigo said:


> I appreciate that may be so Mark but your wife is still entitled to a free assessment and to apply for a Disabled Facilties Grant which OT's assist with. Worth ringing them and checking this out.


Thanks for your help, Amigo. The council website links just lead to this private company.  Should we try phoning the council direct?


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## AndBreathe (Nov 15, 2016)

@Mark Parrott - please do look up your local Red Cross.  It may not be in your town, but well worth exploring.  Both my parents, for very different reasons, had significant mobility issues when they became infirm.  The Red Cross, in Scotland anyway, offer a free hire service of things like wheelchairs, commodes and the like.

If I recall correctly, they require wheelchairs to be returned, and if necessary swapped periodically (3 monthly springs to mind, but may not be correct), so that they can be checked, serviced/repaired, as required.  This return/swap was part of their T&Cs.  The chairs didn't have go-faster stripes or the like, but it meant getting out and about, which can have such a positive impact on overall well-being.

For both parents it was a much appreciated service, and the chair just returned when no longer required.  We did make voluntary donations to the Red Cross both times as we felt if we contributed something it could just perhaps help to continue a really valuable service, for those who need it.


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## Amigo (Nov 15, 2016)

Mark Parrott said:


> OT referal had been outsourced
> 
> Thanks for your help, Amigo. The council website links just lead to this private company.  Should we try phoning the council direct?



I would Mark because they cannot charge for a Community Care assessment and I've never heard of a Council doing that to be honest. That's total craziness! 

Wheelchairs should come via the GP. In our area the Red Cross only do temp loans of wheelchairs but areas may be different.


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## Mark Parrott (Nov 15, 2016)

Thanks @AndBreathe.  Well worth checking out.


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## Mark Parrott (Nov 15, 2016)

Amigo said:


> I would Mark because they cannot charge for a Community Care assessment and I've never heard of a Council doing that to be honest. That's total craziness!


We have just been on several council websites in surrounding areas.  All offer free OT referral.  Only Cambridgeshire charge.  This is disgusting.


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## Mark Parrott (Nov 15, 2016)

I also must add the our council are also charging for brown bin (garden rubbish) collection starting next year & also increasing the minimum amount that housing benefit claimants have to pay from 13% to 18%.  Looking online, it seems they are the only council to outsource their OT referrals to a private company.  All the links on their page lead to Safe & Well.


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## AlisonM (Nov 15, 2016)

Mark Parrott said:


> We have just been on several council websites in surrounding areas.  All offer free OT referral.  Only Cambridgeshire charge.  This is disgusting.


It is indeed disgusting and, I think, against the law. Perhaps you could check this with CAB?


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## Robin (Nov 15, 2016)

Mark Parrott said:


> Social services in Cambridgeshire charge £99 for a referral.


Mark, I've just looked at the link that Amigo put up. It tells you to email or ring the council. Then it says, IF you would prefer NOT to go through the council, you can access an OT privately, which is where the £99 fee comes in when you follow the link.
My reading of it, is that if you access it by emailing or phoning the council, there should not be a charge.


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## Mark Parrott (Nov 15, 2016)

Thanks, Robin.  We shall email them.  Thanks everyone for your advice,  You are such a lovely bunch.  I'm off to bed now.


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## pav (Nov 15, 2016)

In my area the referral is free and the access team come out and assess what is needed to be done. Mum's house it was deemed that the bathroom needed to be converted to a wet room and a hoist put in so she could get in and out of the house. They also said more aids were needed in the house like a hospital style bed, a second hoist that was mobile in the house and quite a few other things.

The items for inside the house were provided by the NHS loan store including a wheelchair and special chair cushion free of charge. The bathroom conversion and the outside hoist including changing the front door was subjected to a financial assessment of her savings and income. Which she did have to partially finance. 

I do believe that the system around my area has changed on how to get referred, though believe this is still free.


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