# FDA on ivermectin: "You are not a horse"



## Eddy Edson (Aug 22, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1429050070243192839
More fraud emerging in ivermectin studies: 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1428892398956908547


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## trophywench (Aug 22, 2021)

I've never heard of it anyway - or it being used in the mistaken belief it's any help in fighting Covid.  If people really are that stupid, the gene pool is likely better off without them.


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## Eddy Edson (Aug 22, 2021)

trophywench said:


> I've never heard of it anyway - or it being used in the mistaken belief it's any help in fighting Covid.  If people really are that stupid, the gene pool is likely better off without them.


There has been a huge push to promote ivermectin globally by an array of quacks and grifters. 

These kinds of stories are popping up: https://msdh.ms.gov/msdhsite/_static/resources/15400.pdf

_The Mississippi Poison Control Center has received an increasing number of calls from individuals with potential ivermectin exposure taken to treat or prevent COVID-19 infection. • At least 70% of the recent calls have been related to ingestion of livestock or animal formulations of ivermectin purchased at livestock supply centers._

People refusing to get a vax shot are drinking horse de-wormer instead ....


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## Bruce Stephens (Aug 22, 2021)

Eddy Edson said:


> People refusing to get a vax shot are drinking horse de-wormer instead ...


I've seen comments that some sellers are now limiting volumes of dewormers, causing some irritation to people looking after horses.


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## Robin (Aug 22, 2021)

I know, why don’t we do a proper clinical trial before we start taking horse pills…oh, we are! Oxford University is on the case.




__





						Ivermectin to be investigated as a possible treatment for COVID-19 in Oxford’s PRINCIPLE trial | University of Oxford
					

23 June 2021




					www.ox.ac.uk


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## AndBreathe (Aug 22, 2021)

Ivermectin is used by some in UK, with a view to easing long COVID.  It is usually used in conjunction with 2 antistamine drugs.

I have a friend living with very awful long covid who has been prescribed some of the protocol, with a view to adding the other element shortly.  This is via an NHS Long Covid Clinic.


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## Amity Island (Aug 22, 2021)

AndBreathe said:


> Ivermectin is used by some in UK, with a view to easing long COVID.  It is usually used in conjunction with 2 antistamine drugs.
> 
> I have a friend living with very awful long covid who has been prescribed some of the protocol, with a view to adding the other element shortly.  This is via an NHS Long Covid Clinic.


Hi @AndBreathe 

That's interesting to know. There are a couple of people on the forum that have been following the Ivermectin use @Eddy Edson and @Bruce Stephens , I haven't but, if it turns out to have some kind of benefit for no matter what strange or non-expected or known reason then good luck to them, we have been told from the very outset that there are NO treatments available for covid19.


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## Bruce Stephens (Aug 22, 2021)

AndBreathe said:


> I have a friend living with very awful long covid who has been prescribed some of the protocol, with a view to adding the other element shortly. This is via an NHS Long Covid Clinic.


Presumably as part of a trial. (As I understand it that's the only recommended way to use it for COVID-19.)

(I think that kind of experimentation makes complete sense. While I've not seen many people think it's likely that ivermectin might be useful for this, it has a known safety profile so why not include it with other fairly safe drugs in multi armed trials, just to see if we can find something that helps.)


Amity Island said:


> we have been told from the very outset that there are NO treatments available for covid19.


Which (as far as I'm aware) is still the case (that we don't know of many effective treatments). There's some steroids for particular contexts, these monoclonal antibodies, and that seems to be pretty much it. So more would definitely be good.

I think for mild symptoms things like paracetamol for fever are recommended, much as they are for influenza (which could also use some better treatments).


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## mikeyB (Aug 23, 2021)

The reason there are no _treatments_ for Covid (and flu, colds, measles and chicken pox) is that they are viruses. You can’t kill viruses because they aren’t alive in the first place. You can only give the body’s defences a leg up, as with Dexamethasone.

Ivermectin has no such known activity, you don’t need a boost to your immune system to kill worms, because they are already immune to the body’s defences. You need a poison that will kill them. And it’s worth observing that it is one of the commonest prescribed treatments in the US, and in African countries where nasty worm infections are common. As is rampant Covid infection.

There is also not a shred of reliable evidence that it is of any use in Covid infection either as a preventative or disease alleviation, or as a treatment in long Covid, nor will there be, because as far as I am aware there are no double blind trials anywhere. Nobody with any sense would fund such a trial.

All that said, crying out “We are not horses” is ludicrous because it such a commonly prescribed human drug.


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## Eddy Edson (Aug 23, 2021)

mikeyB said:


> All that said, crying out “We are not horses” is ludicrous because it such a commonly prescribed human drug.


I think not in horse-dose quantities ...


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## Drummer (Aug 23, 2021)

I used to use Ivermectin on my birds.
One of the people at the bird club revealed that his father had been treating the birds by dipping a finger into the pot and wiping it onto their heads and a day or so later had got the fright of his life by getting rid of a rather large tapeworm. The advice is to use a cotton bud or small artists paintbrush.


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## Bruce Stephens (Aug 23, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1429801813847519234


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## Pumper_Sue (Aug 23, 2021)

Bruce Stephens said:


> I've seen comments that some sellers are now limiting volumes of dewormers, causing some irritation to people looking after horses.


It's also a cattle wormer.
Not to put anywhere near certain breeds of dogs either. If I remember rightly it can kill collies.


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## AndBreathe (Aug 24, 2021)

Bruce Stephens said:


> Presumably as part of a trial. (As I understand it that's the only recommended way to use it for COVID-19.)
> 
> (I think that kind of experimentation makes complete sense. While I've not seen many people think it's likely that ivermectin might be useful for this, it has a known safety profile so why not include it with other fairly safe drugs in multi armed trials, just to see if we can find something that helps.)
> 
> ...


No.  It is at a specialist Long Covid clinic at a London Hospital.

To be clear, the Ivermectin protocols are tri-armed; 2 types of antihistamine drugs, plus Ivermectin.  She has been prescribed the antihistamines, with the final decision on Ivermectin to be taken early next month.

I'm not here to argue whether it's a good, bad or ugly idea.  I'm just stating what I know to be the situation in at least one specialist clinic.


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## mikeyB (Aug 24, 2021)

The trouble with using an unknown drug in such a situation that you use in combination with others, is that you do not know which of the treatments is working, if at all, if folks improve. That is the way to get false ideas about efficacy of a particular drug.


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## trophywench (Aug 24, 2021)

Yeah - but if they started the other drugs first and then are measuring (whatever) to see if they are helping, then later add the Ivermectin and measure the whatever again, they will know if it helps or not.  

Sounds to me that's exactly what they are looking at!


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## mikeyB (Aug 25, 2021)

That takes time though, @trophywench, and the trouble with most illnesses is that folk get better with time, and you need hundreds of patients, some who get the de-wormer and some who get a placebo, with the docs not knowing either.

If you don’t do double blind trials, you just end up with worthless anecdotal evidence.


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## trophywench (Aug 25, 2021)

I appreciate that final sentence Mike - and agree it was speculation - but we don't know whether they are or they aren't - so at the mo I'm happy whatever the specialist clinic(s) do/not do in an effort to find out more about it - though I'd rather know that they ARE, IYSWIM.


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## Eddy Edson (Aug 26, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1430757135760064512


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## Eddy Edson (Aug 27, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1431040456364810242
_A lot of people have asked me this week: Where did this ivermectin obsession come from? Who could possibly benefit from it? Most importantly, why did my antivaxx aunt start eating horse goo from the tractor store? It’s complicated, but here are some answers ..._


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