# And the Trump madness begins in earnest



## Amigo (Jan 28, 2017)

http://pix11.com/2017/01/28/refugee...k-airport-as-trumps-executive-order-kicks-in/

“Today, we saw in real human terms the damage and the absurdity of Trump’s policies. The president’s executive order is mean-spirited, ill-conceived, and ill-advised. The order almost banned a man from entering the country who has worked for the United States government for 10 years, who risked his life to help us and to help our troops, and who loves our country. Thankfully, we did not sit idly by. We took action. We demanded his release, and the release of the others who are being unlawfully detained. We are pleased to announce that Hameed Khalid Darweesh has been released and can now be reunited with his family.

“This should not happen in America. We shouldn’t have to demand the release of refugees one by one. We must fight this executive order in the streets, in the courts, anywhere, anytime. We must resist. We must fight. We must keep working to keep America the land of the free and the home of the brave.”


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## Amigo (Jan 29, 2017)

Thankfully a US Judge has put a stop to this madness and temporarily blocked Trump's detention plans;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38786660

This is starting to feel a lot like 'ethnic cleansing' to me!


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## Northerner (Jan 29, 2017)

I read an article yesterday about Trump's approach with all these executive orders. The vast majority of the ones issued so far have entailed no oversight - indeed, in some cases the necessary departments have not yet had their officials appointed. They would normally go through a procedure of scrutiny prior to being issued, in order to wee if they are workable, advisable and are likely to gain assent in the House/Senate. Even though both houses are Republican-dominated, many Republicans do not support Trump's policies. He is like a bull in a china shop, giving no thought to the actual consequences of his actions. It will, hopefully, all unravel and expose his huge weaknesses in the position.


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## mikeyB (Jan 29, 2017)

There are legal challenges falling round his ears. The immigration thing apparently contravenes freedom of religion embodied in the constitution


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## trophywench (Jan 29, 2017)

Did Lewis Carroll write his script?  ('Off with their heads!' said the Red President......)


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## Austin Mini (Jan 29, 2017)

OMG what have they created.


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## robert@fm (Jan 29, 2017)

mikeyB said:


> There are legal challenges falling round his ears. The immigration thing apparently contravenes freedom of religion embodied in the constitution


Trump seems to me to embody the tabloid-journalist school of logic!  The only two Moslems I have personally known have been two of the most pleasant people I have ever known; but naturally, if your impression of Moslems is garnered entirely from news media, then you will get the impression that they are all terrrorists (in reality, Moslems probably hate IS even more than the rest of us do, through giving them such a bad image), in the same way that in the late 1960s, if you went by what the media said back then (as far too many idiots did, as now), you would believe that all students spent their entire life rioting and preaching anarchy.  (The reality was probably that even the small minority who actually did these things — and hence were the only ones newsworthy and thus the only ones visible — took care to spend much of their time actually _studying_, so as not to get sent down for flunking their courses.)


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## Northerner (Jan 29, 2017)

Mo Farah's not sure if he will be able to go back to his family - he's lived there for 6 years


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## Mark T (Jan 29, 2017)

The most laughable thing I've seen this weekend is people responding to complaints that this doesn't make sense and that the US is a country of immigrants is that *everyone *in the US is an immigrant because the first nations peoples immigrated over the bering land bridge!

Ok, yes, technically you could look at it that way.  And you could apply that argument to almost anyone in the world, since humanity came out of Africa and immigrated to everywhere else...

But this isn't necessary just about Muslims, there are many other countries with significant muslim populations.  This is also about money - those are poor muslim countries.  I suspect even he would think twice about pissing off a rich muslim country!


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## Northerner (Jan 29, 2017)

I also read that he doesn't have any business interests in the countries on the list, whereas he does in others in the region...


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## ChrisSamsDad (Jan 29, 2017)

Northerner said:


> I also read that he doesn't have any business interests in the countries on the list, whereas he does in others in the region...


Yes, Saudi Arabia is conspicuously absent from the list, despite being the source of both most of the actual 9/11 bombers and the major funder of Al Quieda. But Trump has businesses there and it's a major arms importer.
http://www.npr.org/2017/01/28/51199...ion-freeze-square-with-his-business-interests


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## ChrisSamsDad (Jan 29, 2017)

Has anyone seen the chart that Kim Kardashian is tweeting? I checked it and it's real stats from the CDC. More dangerous than islamic terrorists are far-right terrorists, but much more worse are toddlers - why isn't he doing something about them?


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## robert@fm (Jan 29, 2017)

Never mind jihadists or toddlers — by Trump's "logic" and these statistics, he should ban Americans!


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## Hazel (Jan 29, 2017)

Has Trump forgotten he married 2 immigrants to the US.     OK not Muslims.


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## ChrisSamsDad (Jan 29, 2017)

robert@fm said:


> Never mind jihadists or toddlers — by Trump's "logic" and these statistics, he should ban Americans!


Or, and I know I sound like a crazy liberal whackjob, but possibly 'guns'?


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## mikeyB (Jan 30, 2017)

I've been to two majority Moslem countries, Uzbekistan and Morocco. In both, the warmth of the welcome, and the hospitality was better than any I have received in any so-called Christian country. Islam is peaceful religion. In Morocco, the Moslem, Christian and Jewish communities co exist reasonably well. I've done GP locums in areas with a fairly high Moslem population, and it was usually only that Moslems that ever offered me a cup of tea. You cross the threshold, you're offered sustenance.  This is the religion whose adherents Trump wants to ban from America, not the so- called religion that Isis claims to have. That is so far from Islam. Moslems condemn them.

But you will never convince Trump of that. To him, the religion is the terror, and all he hears about Moslems are from his little friend Putin, who is having problems down south in Chechnya. 
                       -----------------------------------------------
Kim Kardashian has just gone up in my estimation. Starting from a fairly low point, I have to say.


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## Northerner (Jan 30, 2017)

The whole point about this ban is that it will not achieve anything in the fight against extremism, it simply plays into their hands and strengthens their argument that the 'West' is anti-Islamic, and increases their ability to radicalise those vulnerable to it  Any fool could see that, if they weren't so blinded by the narcissistic belief that they are the 'smartest' person on the planet. The problem with Trump is that he will not admit that he could possibly get things wrong - he's even blaming the media for putting a 'false' spin on this - you don't need to spin it, it's blatantly idiotic


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## Northerner (Jan 30, 2017)

This shows the madness of this ban - a vet being denied a TRANSIT in New York - she didn't even plan to stay there, just change flights 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-38786119


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## Bubbsie (Jan 30, 2017)

Northerner said:


> The whole point about this ban is that it will not achieve anything in the fight against extremism, it simply plays into their hands and strengthens their argument that the 'West' is anti-Islamic, and increases their ability to radicalise those vulnerable to it  Any fool could see that, if they weren't so blinded by the narcissistic belief that they are the 'smartest' person on the planet. The problem with Trump is that he will not admit that he could possibly get things wrong - he's even blaming the media for putting a 'false' spin on this - you don't need to spin it, it's blatantly idiotic


Making his mark no doubt...the usual process for a newly inaugurated president...first hundred days to impress...however...Trump has achieved that in his first hundred hours... lets hope its the first step on the road to his imminent downfall


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## zuludog (Jan 30, 2017)

Hooray for Donald Trump!

At last we have a Western leader who's standing up for his own country. It's about time that European governments, including our own, did some of that


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## Northerner (Jan 30, 2017)

zuludog said:


> Hooray for Donald Trump!
> 
> At last we have a Western leader who's standing up for his own country. It's about time that European governments, including our own, did some of that


That would be fine if what he was doing actually made sense, but I've seen little so far that will do his country anything but harm in the longer term.


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## Bubbsie (Jan 30, 2017)

zuludog said:


> Hooray for Donald Trump!
> 
> At last we have a Western leader who's standing up for his own country. It's about time that European governments, including our own, did some of that


Really?...standing up for his own country...20 million plus shortly to be without adequate health care with the repeal of 'Obama Care'...An order to reinstate the so-called "Mexico City Policy"... a ban on federal funds to any international group that perform abortions or lobby to legalize or promote abortion...implemented a notice that the U.S which will begin the withdrawal from the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal...yes as you say...standing up for his own country...coincidental all of those measures will hit/target just the vulnerable...poor...socially deprived...weaker members of the USA.....who are hard pressed to 'fight' back...but...  as you say he is standing up for his own country...how?


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## robert@fm (Jan 30, 2017)

Northerner said:


> The whole point about this ban is that it will not achieve anything in the fight against extremism, it simply plays into their hands and strengthens their argument that the 'West' is anti-Islamic, and increases their ability to radicalise those vulnerable to it  Any fool could see that, if they weren't so blinded by the narcissistic belief that they are the 'smartest' person on the planet. The problem with Trump is that he will not admit that he could possibly get things wrong - he's even blaming the media for putting a 'false' spin on this - you don't need to spin it, it's blatantly idiotic


In my life, I have known plenty of people who are too dumb to admit that they make mistakes like everyone else, which is one reason why my present sig satirises that kind of attitude.   But when such a one is arguably the most powerful person in the world, it gets scary.


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## ChrisSamsDad (Jan 30, 2017)

He's basically trying to do a 'Putin' - It's a silent coup - he's riding roughshod over the judiciary and the normal checks and balances - he's already ignored a lot of convention and rules: he's not divested himself of business interests, but 'handed over control' to his family, which is a MASSIVE conflict of interest - they made Jimmy Carter sell his peanut farm for god's sake. He's got business interests in Russia, Turkey and Saudi Arabia, all of which were involved in his first executive orders. 

He's got rid of the top tier of experienced civil servants at the state department who might have resisted the muslim ban, or at least followed the instructions of a court. Instead, he's got people there now who've declared that they will ignore the court orders and follow his instructions instead. That is a huge thing - it's him positioning himself to be beyond the law in his country. He started the process of undermining the powers that could stop him very early on - by going on the offensive against the press - calling respected news sources like the BBC and CNN 'fake news' and put gag orders on most government departments. He's defied the constitution by changing the security council membership to include more of his cronies and removed people who the constitution says should be there. 

An odd, but generally unnoticed fact is that he's opened his candidacy for the 2020 election, which might just be his arrogance, but considering there have been so many irregularities with the funds in this last campaign - money going in and out of his business accounts and campaign accounts - it opens up the way for bribes and bungs to come to him. 

Also, one of the facts in that M16 report - the one including the golden showers bit - was that Putin had promised him control of 19% of Rosneft, the Russian State Oil company if he removed US sanctions on Russian (http://uk.businessinsider.com/carter-page-trump-russia-igor-sechin-dossier-2017-1?r=US&IR=T). Funnily enough, last Wednesday, 19.5% of Rosneft was sold, but through a complex and confusing chain of shell companies, so that basically no-one knows who now owns it (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-rosneft-privatisation-insight-idUSKBN1582OH). 


He's laying down the framework for an autocracy - this immigration ban is his first move to see if he can get away with it. And he's doing that to screw the maximum amount of money out of the job. I'm not sure he even cares about muslims, immigration or abortion - he's just making sure he's pushing the rightwing agenda to keep their support - if he's been a democrat trying any of these sort of things, the controlling republican senate and house of representatives would have stopped him by now. If he's been as radical with a left wing agenda - you might even believe that the military would rise up and stop him, but with this agenda, he's got all the gun-possessing scary types on this side.


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## mikeyB (Jan 30, 2017)

We should be more worried about Theresa May and her desperate grab for a trade agreement. Trump will add on his riders for that to take place. One of these will be the free access to the NHS by American health care companies. And that won't just be NHS England because Trump regards the NHS as a U.K. service. One more reason for Scotland to escape.


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## margie (Jan 30, 2017)

There is total confusion. The US embassy posted a notice that contradicted the clarification that Boris Johnson had received re dual nationas. The notice has now vanished but various news websites have reported what it said.

It all seems rather like the law of uninteded consequences.


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## Bubbsie (Jan 30, 2017)

mikeyB said:


> We should be more worried about Theresa May and her desperate grab for a trade agreement. Trump will add on his riders for that to take place. One of these will be the free access to the NHS by American health care companies. And that won't just be NHS England because Trump regards the NHS as a U.K. service. One more reason for Scotland to escape.


Mike do you really think that no one would oppose that?...she would be pilloried at even a hint of it...really give us here a bit more credit


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## mikeyB (Jan 30, 2017)

It's been Jeremy Hunts ideal for years, Bubbsie. And if full free trade with America comes along, we will be eating chlorine washed chicken (banned in the EU), growth hormone treated beef (banned in the EU) and unlabelled GM ingredients (banned in the EU) and eating intensively farmed pigs (banned in the EU). All these will be included in a trade deal. 

British farmers will object to the cheaper imports, so they will say, right, level playing field, throw animal welfare out the window, let's compete.

There won't be any opposition in parliament, except from the lib dems, the greens, and the SDP. Labour are like headless chickens.


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## Martin Canty (Jan 30, 2017)

References to the Judiciary have been removed from whitehouse.gov...... http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...nt-white-house-website-branches-a7552566.html

For those who don't know, the US government has checks & balances, governance is split into 3 parts, Executive, Legislative & Judiciary... To dismiss one of these in a fit of pique shows a lot to this mans character.


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## Bubbsie (Jan 30, 2017)

Martin Canty said:


> References to the Judiciary have been removed from whitehouse.gov...... http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...nt-white-house-website-branches-a7552566.html
> 
> For those who don't know, the US government has checks & balances, governance is split into 3 parts, Executive, Legislative & Judiciary... To dismiss one of these in a fit of pique shows a lot to this mans character.


Theoretically Martin we have the same separation of powers...nonsense...doesn't really exist...judicial political appointments...nepotism...most of  those offices overlap...Montesquieu's philosophy applauded...but sadly rarely practised!


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## Bubbsie (Jan 30, 2017)

mikeyB said:


> It's been Jeremy Hunts ideal for years, Bubbsie. And if full free trade with America comes along, we will be eating chlorine washed chicken (banned in the EU), growth hormone treated beef (banned in the EU) and unlabelled GM ingredients (banned in the EU) and eating intensively farmed pigs (banned in the EU). All these will be included in a trade deal.
> 
> British farmers will object to the cheaper imports, so they will say, right, level playing field, throw animal welfare out the window, let's compete.
> 
> There won't be any opposition in parliament, except from the lib dems, the greens, and the SDP. Labour are like headless chickens.


You may be eating that Mike I certainly won't be...I have no intention of living in the 51st State of the USA (depending on your point of view on Washington D.C and the proposed addition of Puerto Rico)...we have an upper and lower chamber to Parliament...House of Lords normally full of 'deadwood' claiming their  attendance allowance and nodding off...but...they came out fighting over Tax Credits...much to the Tories surprise...who got kicked firmly up the backside... chance for them to earn a bit more kudos and justify their  existence...there would be effective opposition on the streets...rightly so...political suicide for Teresa Maybe...ooh I do hope so...failing that we'll all have to move to Scotland if they effect their 'Escape'


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## grovesy (Jan 30, 2017)

Bubbsie said:


> You may be eating that Mike I certainly won't be...I have no intention of living in the 51st State of the USA (depending on your point of view on Washington D.C and the proposed addition of Puerto Rico)...we have an upper and lower chamber to Parliament...House of Lords normally full of 'deadwood' claiming their  attendance allowance and nodding off...but...they came out fighting over Tax Credits...much to the Tories surprise...who got kicked firmly up the backside... chance for them to earn a bit more kudos and justify their  existence...there would be effective opposition on the streets...rightly so...political suicide for Teresa Maybe...ooh I do hope so...failing that we'll all have to move to Scotland if they effect their 'Escape'


I have no faith that NHS is safe in Teresa,'s hands. Though having worked for over 40 years in the NHS any government only ever used it as a political pawn.


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## Bubbsie (Jan 30, 2017)

grovesy said:


> I have no faith that NHS is safe in Teresa,'s hands. Though having worked for over 40 years in the NHS any government only ever used it as a political pawn.


grovesy I have no faith with the NHS in Teresa Mays hands...but not just going to sit back and watch it dismantled.


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## ChrisSamsDad (Jan 30, 2017)

NHS is being privatised by the back door - and has been since Blair's government but more so under Tories - so some of our money is being spent with private companies - who they've given the lucrative bits to, keeping the expensive bits that private companies can't make a profit on in the NHS so that they can say that the private sector is more efficient.
http://www.nhsforsale.info/database/impact-database/less-fair/cherry-picking.html


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## grovesy (Jan 30, 2017)

We have yet to see the full effect of Blair's PFI deals. I was informed that the building I worked in had to be handed back after the 30 years in the manner in which was built.


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## mikeyB (Jan 31, 2017)

Back on topic, has anybody noticed the list of countries whose refugees will not be allowed access to America? Nobody from any of these countries has ever been accused or carried out a terrorist attack on America.

Every single one of the 9/11 aircraft hijackers was from Saudi Arabia, and learned to fly in America. There is no bar to Saudis entering America with a visa. Osama bin Laden was a Saudi. His family still live there.

Make of that what you will. I'm sure Chris will, come on lad...


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