# Oh You Steaming Great Ninny



## Diabeticliberty (Sep 30, 2016)

As today got off to such a fantastic start,  business is good, fly fishing business is also brisk I decided to see out September by making a complete and utter dullard of myself. I received a call this morning to go and see a new client to assess and measure up a job. Arriving on site and after a 40 minute wait i tested and blood was 3.6mmols. Low but not stupid low. Went to my car and offed a bottle of orange Lucozade.  20 minutes layer I go into a factory packing hall and a piece of equipment is removed from a dosing machine. I sketch it and start to add dimensions and can no longer read my digital Vernier caliper. 2 minutes later I cannot even see the piece of equipment.  There was a time in my life not all that long ago when discussing my condition was admitting defeat.  I would therefore not even mention it. Fortunately I became enlightened and managed to blurt out that I needed a vending machine.  The engineer concerned immediately picked up on what was wrong and suggested the canteen was 5 minutes walk. I respectfully suggest that I would not make 50 paces. He duly dragged me into a workshop and plonked me with one of his technicians who was also diabetic.  My contact took off at a fair old lick to bring me something sweet. I got talking, well rambling actually to the diabetic technician. For some obscure reason I opened the Libre Link App on my phone and started testing. The sensor was never going to say anything else but LOW. I then went on to give this poor unfortunate a full sales pitch on the Freestyle Libre. Any Abbott shareholders and all of you Freestyle cheerleaders out there would have been duly proud of me. Had I not already got a device I would have been immediately online and bought one. A friend of mine who I have known for 20 years turned up. His wife is type 1 and when he first met her I steered him through some of her mood swing issues which nearly broke them up. They are now however very happily married. He pulled out a can of orange Fanta (yeuk filthy stuff) and a Mars Bar. Stuffed them both in and 15 minutes later was at least semi coherent. 25 minutes later I limped around the factory and measured up a second unit. Back to my car with blood sugars of 6mmols. When I returned to my factory as a failsafe I drew up both jobs using Autocad and sent copies across to my client. He came back to me and approved them. The rest of my day has been troubled. I have been diabetic for so long that I rarely suffer any major residual hypo symptoms. I don't mind confessing though that all day I have and still do feel completely vacuous.  I should now be heavily involved in piano practice but can barely muster enough energy to scratch my bare naked.....................left ear. Days like these are fun, fun fun. No I don't do jelly babies, no I don't do glucose sweeties. I do Lucozade and always carry it in my car.  I do single malt but in the circumstances it might have been rather inappropriate. Gawd my head hurts


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## Northerner (Sep 30, 2016)

Ack! Really sorry to hear this DL, sounds like a bad one  Any idea what might have caused it? Sounds like it came out of the blue 

Hope your head recovers soon, hypo hangovers are so unfair!


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## Stitch147 (Sep 30, 2016)

Hope you feel better soon DL. Sending you a hug from me and Tigga.


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## HOBIE (Sep 30, 2016)

I think I have had a few days like that . Pleased you had some good people around you. I was once on the floor in la la land & someone  was trying to give me insulin  Its amazing the strength you can in them situations  Hope you ok


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## Diabeticliberty (Sep 30, 2016)

It just kinda jumped up and bit then end of nose. It was completely out of the low sugar blue. As for the cause? I was in the middle of a particularly busy morning and this client is a major player that I have been attempting to crack for the last 10 years.  I was anxious to make the appointment in good time.  Traffic was a pig,  adrenalin was potentially elevated. Heineken schmeihekin perhaps it was a phase of the moon? No real blindingly obvious reasons.  Perhaps time then to consider the rather more obscure.


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## Diabeticliberty (Sep 30, 2016)

HOBIE said:


> I think I have had a few days like that . Pleased you had some good people around you. I was once on the floor in la la land & someone  was trying to give me insulin  Its amazing the strength you can in them situations  Hope you ok




One poor well meaning pilgrim asked if I needed some insulin? From the facial expression I tried for the life of me not to pull I don't think he will ever venture down that avenue again.


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## Robin (Sep 30, 2016)

EEk, the dreaded Hypo Headache. Hope you feel better soon. Adrenalin rushes always send me skywards, not Hypo. Are you the exception that proves the rule or am I?


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## HOBIE (Sep 30, 2016)

Diabeticliberty said:


> One poor well meaning pilgrim asked if I needed some insulin? From the facial expression I tried for the life of me not to pull I don't think he will ever venture down that avenue again.


Well done on your animal impression !  Its just shows how much people know. They are only trying to help but


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## Diabeticliberty (Sep 30, 2016)

Robin said:


> EEk, the dreaded Hypo Headache. Hope you feel better soon. Adrenalin rushes always send me skywards, not Hypo. Are you the exception that proves the rule or am I?




To be honest with you in my current state it took me all my time to load 2 sausages and 2 pieces of bacon into my GF grill. I am not currently up to working out issues any more complex than are my sausages burning?


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## AlisonM (Sep 30, 2016)

Ooh, hypo hangover, you poor sausage. Any chance of a wee lie down in a darkened room and some peace and quiet for you?

Me loathe Lucozade, YUCK, YUCK and URGGH! Besides, I have the JBs down to a fine art these days and can handle them even when in a hypo daze. The real trouble starts when I can't find any.


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## Ljc (Sep 30, 2016)

Ugggggg a hypo hangover, hope you're over it soon.


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## Diabeticliberty (Sep 30, 2016)

This is the second time recently that this has happened to me. I do always carry multiple batches of Lucozade in the car. These are scant bloody use in the back of my van in a carb park worn I am on a fqcyogh floor. I think I might be looking at glucose gel.or the jelly bambino's.


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## Copepod (Sep 30, 2016)

Right, now find sweets you can tolerate and keep some in pockets of every item of clothing.


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## Owen (Sep 30, 2016)

Pillock


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## Diabeticliberty (Sep 30, 2016)

Owen said:


> Pillock



Harsh baby just a bit on the the left hand side of harsh


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## Owen (Sep 30, 2016)

Diabeticliberty said:


> Harsh baby just a bit on the the left hand side of harsh


And what have you learned


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## Radders (Sep 30, 2016)

Diabeticliberty said:


> This is the second time recently that this has happened to me. I do always carry multiple batches of Lucozade in the car. These are scant bloody use in the back of my van in a carb park worn I am on a fqcyogh floor. I think I might be looking at glucose gel.or the jelly bambino's.


Can't you carry Dextrosol in your pocket? Most of my embarrassing hypos are when I've become separated from my handbag where I keep my stash so I do understand how you feel!


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## Diabeticliberty (Sep 30, 2016)

With the size of this mornings hypo I would have needed Dextrosol equivalent in volume to a house brick. I find thst they have minimal effect on me at the best of times.


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## Northerner (Sep 30, 2016)

I find that with a really bad hypo jelly babies or glucose tablets are no good - has to be some sugary pop, so I try to keep a can in the fridge at all times  I drink the pop then eat EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!


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## Hazel (Sep 30, 2016)

Hope you ate feeling better now and hypo headache has eased.

Please take care


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## Owen (Sep 30, 2016)

Seriously hope you're feeling better


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## Diabeticliberty (Sep 30, 2016)

The kip from which I have just awoken was a big help. I have a headache that feels like Peterhead but can hopefully sleep it off


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## Owen (Sep 30, 2016)

Diabeticliberty said:


> The kip from which I have just awoken was a bug help. I have a headache that feels like Peterhead but can hopefully sleep it off


Now your head knows what your a..... feels like


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## mikeyB (Oct 1, 2016)

I don't get hypo headaches. In fact, I don't get headaches at all since I gave up work. But I feel so, so tired after a bad hypo, I don't know how you got home DL, but at least you are safe and sound and back to remind us of jokes we heard as children. Remember with the Libre, always look at the arrow. 

I had a hypo in the middle of dinner tonight. That's never happened before in 20 years of D. It feels distinctly odd to want jelly babies in the middle of grilled sole and boiled potatoes. I had them for afters.


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## Owen (Oct 1, 2016)

Hypo Friday


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## mikeyB (Oct 1, 2016)

Owen said:


> Hypo Friday


Yup, it's a Feast Day in the Church of Diabetes


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## Diabeticliberty (Oct 1, 2016)

Well folks that was quite a sleep from which I have just woken. I feel excellent this morning which is good because I have a really busy weekend ahead. I am teaching this morning and then attending a game fair so the sleep,as well as killing off the residual hypo symptoms has set me up quite well for the coming melee. To all of kind and gracious enough to offer words of support, help and advice I offer my very personal thanks.  It means the world to me that you bother to try to shore up my many frailties and weaknesses. 

To any ladies who are worried that the hypo might have adversely affected my rugged good looks and oodles and oodles of charm fear not. I am still the most handsome beast ever to throw on a pair of chest waders.

I hope that whatever you are all doing this weekend you have as much fun as you are able to squeeze in and that you all remain safe and healthy. Take care of yourselves you all mean the world to me. Diabetes can of course be really quite crappy. Diabetics however are tough resilient and never ever give in. Stay strong


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## Matt Cycle (Oct 1, 2016)

Glad you're okay now DL.   As for diabetes and hypos  I got f****d over by it good and proper a few weeks ago and in spite of doing everything right this particular episode has left and will continue to leave me up s**t creek without a paddle for the forseeable and until god knows when. Not good.


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## Stitch147 (Oct 1, 2016)

Glad you are feeling better today and enjoy your weekend. I've got washing planned for today then off to a vintage fair with my bestie tomorrow.


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## Northerner (Oct 1, 2016)

mikeyB said:


> I had a hypo in the middle of dinner tonight. That's never happened before in 20 years of D. It feels distinctly odd to want jelly babies in the middle of grilled sole and boiled potatoes. I had them for afters.


I've had those occasionally - what worries me is how quickly a hypo treatment will work when I've just shovelled down half of my 'slow-release' meal!


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## Robin (Oct 1, 2016)

Matt Cycle said:


> Glad you're okay now DL.   As for diabetes and hypos  I got f****d over by it good and proper a few weeks ago and in spite of doing everything right this particular episode has left and will continue to leave me up s**t creek without a paddle for the forseeable and until god knows when. Not good.


Matt! Did I miss something? What have you been doing! Take care of yourself, I rely on you for David's trickiest quiz questions!


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## khskel (Oct 1, 2016)

Glad to hear you have bounced back to normal


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## Matt Cycle (Oct 1, 2016)

Robin said:


> Matt! Did I miss something? What have you been doing! Take care of yourself, I rely on you for David's trickiest quiz questions!



Thanks Robin.  I'm absolutely fine.  I didn't say anything publicly at the time but let's just say a dry stone waller will be very busy and I may apply to join a stunt team.   The upshot of it all is consultants and DVLA involvement and making my life just a little more awkward than before.


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## Hazel (Oct 1, 2016)

Good to hear you are feeling better DL.    Mind and replace the drinks in the car.    Hopefully, you won't need them for a while

Don't work too hard


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## Robin (Oct 1, 2016)

Matt Cycle said:


> Thanks Robin.  I'm absolutely fine.  I didn't say anything publicly at the time but let's just say a dry stone waller will be very busy and I may apply to join a stunt team.   The upshot of it all is consultants and DVLA involvement and making my life just a little more awkward than before.


Eek! Sorry you've got all that hassle, but glad you're Ok!


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## Owen (Oct 1, 2016)

Diabeticliberty said:


> Well folks that was quite a sleep from which I have just woken. I feel excellent this morning which is good because I have a really busy weekend ahead. I am teaching this morning and then attending a game fair so the sleep,as well as killing off the residual hypo symptoms has set me up quite well for the coming melee. To all of kind and gracious enough to offer words of support, help and advice I offer my very personal thanks.  It means the world to me that you bother to try to shore up my many frailties and weaknesses.
> 
> To any ladies who are worried that the hypo might have adversely affected my rugged good looks and oodles and oodles of charm fear not. I am still the most handsome beast ever to throw on a pair of chest waders.
> 
> I hope that whatever you are all doing this weekend you have as much fun as you are able to squeeze in and that you all remain safe and healthy. Take care of yourselves you all mean the world to me. Diabetes can of course be really quite crappy. Diabetics however are tough resilient and never ever give in. Stay strong


Really glad it has not affected your modesty


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## Radders (Oct 1, 2016)

Matt Cycle said:


> Glad you're okay now DL.   As for diabetes and hypos  I got f****d over by it good and proper a few weeks ago and in spite of doing everything right this particular episode has left and will continue to leave me up s**t creek without a paddle for the forseeable and until god knows when. Not good.


That sounds bad Matt, hope you're ok? What happened?


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## Matt Cycle (Oct 1, 2016)

Radders said:


> That sounds bad Matt, hope you're ok? What happened?



I'm fine thanks.  To be honest I'm not entirely sure what happened.  I set off in my car to pick my daughter up from a relatives house and on the way there I must have had a rapid drop and fallen unconscious - the car hit a dry stone wall.  I've subsequently found out from eyewitnesses that the car flipped in the air and landed back on its wheels.  By all accounts it sounds impressive if it was in a film or one of those computer games but not on a road.  I can't remember any of the actual accident itself and only bits of what happened after as I obviously wasn't really with it.  I was and still am devastated about it but I thank the heavens no one was hurt.

PS Thanks also to @Northerner for being a good listener.


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## Owen (Oct 1, 2016)

Matt Cycle said:


> I'm fine thanks.  To be honest I'm not entirely sure what happened.  I set off in my car to pick my daughter up from a relatives house and on the way there I must have had a rapid drop and fallen unconscious - the car hit a dry stone wall.  I've subsequently found out from eyewitnesses that the car flipped in the air and landed back on its wheels.  By all accounts it sounds impressive if it was in a film or one of those computer games but not on a road.  I can't remember any of the actual accident itself and only bits of what happened after as I obviously wasn't really with it.  I was and still am devastated about it but I thank the heavens no one was hurt.
> 
> PS Thanks also to @Northerner for being a good listener.


So glad you can talk about it.


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## Radders (Oct 1, 2016)

Matt Cycle said:


> I'm fine thanks.  To be honest I'm not entirely sure what happened.  I set off in my car to pick my daughter up from a relatives house and on the way there I must have had a rapid drop and fallen unconscious - the car hit a dry stone wall.  I've subsequently found out from eyewitnesses that the car flipped in the air and landed back on its wheels.  By all accounts it sounds impressive if it was in a film or one of those computer games but not on a road.  I can't remember any of the actual accident itself and only bits of what happened after as I obviously wasn't really with it.  I was and still am devastated about it but I thank the heavens no one was hurt.
> 
> PS Thanks also to @Northerner for being a good listener.


Thank goodness you weren't hurt, Matt. Sounds like a horrible experience. Does it have implications for your licence?


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## mikeyB (Oct 1, 2016)

Oh dear, Matt. I'm glad you are OK, but as you have remarked, the shit hits the fan now with the DVLA, who will without any doubt ask for your licence for them to take care of for a year. That's as it should be, for the safety of others. It's happened to me in the past, and the first thing you think is its impossible to live without driving. But it isn't, you will find ways of coping, believe me.


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## Owen (Oct 1, 2016)

mikeyB said:


> Oh dear, Matt. I'm glad you are OK, but as you have remarked, the shit hits the fan now with the DVLA, who will without any doubt ask for your licence for them to take care of for a year. That's as it should be, for the safety of others. It's happened to me in the past, and the first thing you think is its impossible to live without driving. But it isn't, you will find ways of coping, believe me.


Sadly I have to agree. I have not lost my licence but cannot do my old job due to licence restrictions.


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## Matt Cycle (Oct 1, 2016)

Radders said:


> Thank goodness you weren't hurt, Matt. Sounds like a horrible experience. Does it have implications for your licence?



Yes, my hypo awareness hasn't been perfect for a while.  Although in this case it seems to have been a very rapid drop.  I'd mentioned the awareness issues before and I saw the consultant a few days after it happened and she insisted I inform the DVLA.  I contacted them and completed the paperwork and they wrote to my consultant.  My consultant spoke to me and we went through her part of the paperwork last week.  She has advised me I shouldn't be driving until it is sorted out with the likelihood being my licence will be suspended. I also spoke to my DSN and she said being honest it's possible the awareness may not fully return.  A pump is the next option and even though I'm on the waiting list she said if there is a clinical need you go to the top.  I brought up the issue of CGM's as in this case presumably it would have been beeping away.  She said she has 3 people who have Minimed pumps with CGM's funded by the NHS due to hypo awareness issues.

Obviously at the moment this is all ifs, buts and maybes.


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## Marsbartoastie (Oct 1, 2016)

Bad luck Matt, but thankfully you walked away from it relatively unscathed and nobody was hurt.  You're a determined sort of bloke so I know you'll now just do what has to be done.  I can't think of any way to offer you practical support as you live so far away, but if you visit London I'll be happy to drive you around.


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## Carolg (Oct 1, 2016)

Matt Cycle said:


> I'm fine thanks.  To be honest I'm not entirely sure what happened.  I set off in my car to pick my daughter up from a relatives house and on the way there I must have had a rapid drop and fallen unconscious - the car hit a dry stone wall.  I've subsequently found out from eyewitnesses that the car flipped in the air and landed back on its wheels.  By all accounts it sounds impressive if it was in a film or one of those computer games but not on a road.  I can't remember any of the actual accident itself and only bits of what happened after as I obviously wasn't really with it.  I was and still am devastated about it but I thank the heavens no one was hurt.
> 
> PS Thanks also to @Northerner for being a good listener.


Hope you are ok. Scary stuff


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## Carolg (Oct 1, 2016)

Diabeticliberty said:


> Well folks that was quite a sleep from which I have just woken. I feel excellent this morning which is good because I have a really busy weekend ahead. I am teaching this morning and then attending a game fair so the sleep,as well as killing off the residual hypo symptoms has set me up quite well for the coming melee. To all of kind and gracious enough to offer words of support, help and advice I offer my very personal thanks.  It means the world to me that you bother to try to shore up my many frailties and weaknesses.
> 
> To any ladies who are worried that the hypo might have adversely affected my rugged good looks and oodles and oodles of charm fear not. I am still the most handsome beast ever to throw on a pair of chest waders.
> 
> I hope that whatever you are all doing this weekend you have as much fun as you are able to squeeze in and that you all remain safe and healthy. Take care of yourselves you all mean the world to me. Diabetes can of course be really quite crappy. Diabetics however are tough resilient and never ever give in. Stay strong


Hope you are better today. 
I've had a day of washing, shopping,gardening, soup making and now catching up here.
Hope everyone else has had a nice day so far. Lovely here


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## Lindarose (Oct 1, 2016)

Hi Matt. I'm so sorry to read what happened to you. Obviously a relief that you and no one else was injured but such a blow regarding driving. A real pain and I can imagine how difficult it will be. Good luck with things.


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## Copepod (Oct 1, 2016)

Matt Cycle said:


> I'm fine thanks.  To be honest I'm not entirely sure what happened.  I set off in my car to pick my daughter up from a relatives house and on the way there I must have had a rapid drop and fallen unconscious - the car hit a dry stone wall.  I've subsequently found out from eyewitnesses that the car flipped in the air and landed back on its wheels.  By all accounts it sounds impressive if it was in a film or one of those computer games but not on a road.  I can't remember any of the actual accident itself and only bits of what happened after as I obviously wasn't really with it.  I was and still am devastated about it but I thank the heavens no one was hurt.
> 
> PS Thanks also to @Northerner for being a good listener.


Really sorry to hear about this, @Matt Cycle. Sounds like you may be cycling / using public transport / lifts / taxis etc more than usual until you can regain your licence. Liftshare websites might be worth trying?


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## Flower (Oct 1, 2016)

I'm so sorry you had such a frightening experience @Matt Cycle and relieved to hear you are alright and no one got hurt.

My pump was fast tracked due to loss of hypo awareness and it really did help me iron out some of the rapid drops and give me some confidence back. I really hope your clinic can sort that out for you as a priority. My Medtronic cgm suspends insulin delivery in advance of me reaching hypo territory to try and avoid serious hypos, and in the past few years I've only had a couple of hypos where I've passed out so that is a great improvement. It is still possible to make a complete mess of it as living without hypo awareness is a game changer and does take some adapting to but I really hope you are able to swap to a pump and hopefully regain some better awareness.

Life does go on without a licence even though at the time mine was revoked I didn't know how I would ever cope. It takes more planning and a lot of hanging around at bus stops/train stations or asking for lifts!

DL I really hope you are alright after your hideous hypo. Diabetes really does suck at times.


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## Matt Cycle (Oct 1, 2016)

Copepod said:


> Really sorry to hear about this, @Matt Cycle. Sounds like you may be cycling / using public transport / lifts / taxis etc more than usual until you can regain your licence. Liftshare websites might be worth trying?



Thanks Copepod.  Getting to work is the main issue and I am currently scrounging lifts off colleagues.  Some of my work involved site visits so that is now on hold.  Working in Buxton means a round trip of around 30 miles - easily doable by bike (just a bit hilly) but this means using the A53.  Very nice surroundings but never the safest of roads in a car on a weekday - HGV's thundering past - so the thought of cycling there through the winter in the dark just seems a bit daunting at the moment.  Public transport is not very good with four buses a day.  I could get to Buxton for 9.10 but would then need to get to our site and the last bus leaves Buxton at 16.10 again I'd have to get from our site to the bus stop.  It would mean a 6 mile walk in total at either end.  I'd be struggling to get my hours in.  However, these are all issues that I could work around or come up with different combinations of things - cycle part way, walk, bus or lift.  There's also the option of working at home on occasions.


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## Matt Cycle (Oct 1, 2016)

Flower said:


> I'm so sorry you had such a frightening experience @Matt Cycle and relieved to hear you are alright and no one got hurt.
> 
> My pump was fast tracked due to loss of hypo awareness and it really did help me iron out some of the rapid drops and give me some confidence back. I really hope your clinic can sort that out for you as a priority. My Medtronic cgm suspends insulin delivery in advance of me reaching hypo territory to try and avoid serious hypos, and in the past few years I've only had a couple of hypos where I've passed out so that is a great improvement. It is still possible to make a complete mess of it as living without hypo awareness is a game changer and does take some adapting to but I really hope you are able to swap to a pump and hopefully regain some better awareness.
> 
> ...



Thanks Flower.



Flower said:


> It takes more planning and a lot of hanging around at bus stops/train stations or asking for lifts!



Yes, already found this out.   It's the other things though when you use the car.  My eldest daughter has just started driving lessons and I remember when I was learning to drive going out with my Dad in his Vauxhall Cavalier for extra practice.  I do remember one or two strong words were exchanged on occasions.   I fully expected to be doing the same with my daughter but now it looks like I won't have that opportunity.


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## Copepod (Oct 1, 2016)

@Matt Cycle I'll PM you if I head to Buxton again - may go to Graeme Obree evening on Wed 12th October, so would stay overnight in Peak District, so could help with Wed eve / Thurs morning. Details at http://www.buxtonadventurefestival.co.uk/speakers-films/


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## Matt Cycle (Oct 1, 2016)

Copepod said:


> @Matt Cycle I'll PM you if I head to Buxton again - may go to Graeme Obreen evening on Wed 12th October, so would stay overnight in Peak District, so could help with Wed eve / Thurs morning. Details at http://www.buxtonadventurefestival.co.uk/speakers-films/



Thanks, that's very thoughtful of you.  I'm actually on annual leave w/c 10th but the Graeme Obree evening looks very interesting.  I watched the Flying Scotsman film - he's an interesting and complex character.


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## Copepod (Oct 2, 2016)

@Matt Cycle - enjoy your annual leave then. As you say, Obree is a very complex character and story. Next Buxton Adventure Festival event is Colin Prior (mountain photographer) on 16th Nov. No event in December, then Jasmine Paris (fell runner) in Jan, but I've met her many times, most recently 2 weeks ago at Scotland Skyline, so won't come to that one.


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## Lilian (Oct 2, 2016)

I guess the moral of the story is to have, whatever does it for you, on you at ALL times.   Make it part of you.   Just as you would not go without your shoes.    So glad you (and Matt) are OK.


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## Rosiecarmel (Oct 2, 2016)

Oh no! I'm so sorry to read this about both of you, Matt and DL! Very glad to hear nobody is seriously injured. People often take diabetes lightly (I mean people that don't live with it... And me occasionally) but this thread is a reminder of just how scary it can be.

Sending big hugs to everybody today!


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## Diabeticliberty (Oct 2, 2016)

Matt I am sorry to reply to this so late but I have been pretty much off the grid for the past 2 days tied up with teaching and involment in a fly fishing event. What has happened to you is dreadful news and makes my own minor event look completely insignificant by comparison. I don't wish to offer you false hope but some years ago I crashed my company car into an armco barrier on the M56 near Stanlow.  I did lose my license but got it back 3 weeks later. If you had a very heavy cold and your blood sugars were straying out of control and outside their normal range at the time of your accident then they might accept this as extreme circumstances which you are unlikely to encounter again. They do you watch you very closely for a period after the event. They were in constant contact with my own GP but he pretty much covered me. I explained that with no license I had no job and they relented but I got the distinct impression that the decision could have drifted either way.  I hope it all works out for you


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## mikeyB (Oct 2, 2016)

That reason won't work in Matt's case unfortunately, because of the loss of hypo awareness. I used to know a couple of the Docs at DVLA and I know how they think. This comes into the category of unexplained blackout. Matt didn't know he was going hypo. Essentially there is no appeal against a 12 month suspension. And I know this sounds heartless with one of our mates, but that is how it should be. If Matt goes out in the road without any change in medication, think of other people on the road. I'm sure Matt thinks about that all the time with his accident. It's wholly inappropriate to discuss ways of avoiding the suspension, when this situation could arise again without warning, and nobody can say it won't.

And implicitly offering an excuse that could be submitted to the DVLA, true or not, is in my view irresponsible, and certainly illegal.

What I will be doing is composing a list of things I did when this happened to me - in my case after an epileptic fit caused by hypoglycaemia - to tell Matt how I coped, working 30 miles from home, and with a wife who couldn't drive for medical reasons.


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## Matt Cycle (Oct 2, 2016)

Diabeticliberty said:


> Matt I am sorry to reply to this so late but I have been pretty much off the grid for the past 2 days tied up with teaching and involment in a fly fishing event. What has happened to you is dreadful news and makes my own minor event look completely insignificant by comparison. I don't wish to offer you false hope but some years ago I crashed my company car into an armco barrier on the M56 near Stanlow.  I did lose my license but got it back 3 weeks later. If you had a very heavy cold and your blood sugars were straying out of control and outside their normal range at the time of your accident then they might accept this as extreme circumstances which you are unlikely to encounter again. They do you watch you very closely for a period after the event. They were in constant contact with my own GP but he pretty much covered me. I explained that with no license I had no job and they relented but I got the distinct impression that the decision could have drifted either way.  I hope it all works out for you



Sorry for hijacking your thread.  Driving is not critical to my work but going from having a car to not being able to drive is taking some getting used to.  If I lived in a city and had no dependents I think it would be a lot easier.  My OH has a car so we're not without a vehicle but her job involves lots of driving and out of hours working so we tended to share things such as ferrying the kids to wherever they needed to be.  Getting to and from work has meant relying on lifts and my colleagues have been great.  Overall though it has made life a bit more difficult and will take some getting used to.


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## Matt Cycle (Oct 2, 2016)

mikeyB said:


> That reason won't work in Matt's case unfortunately, because of the loss of hypo awareness. I used to know a couple of the Docs at DVLA and I know how they think. This comes into the category of unexplained blackout. Matt didn't know he was going hypo. Essentially there is no appeal against a 12 month suspension. And I know this sounds heartless with one of our mates, but that is how it should be. If Matt goes out in the road without any change in medication, think of other people on the road. I'm sure Matt thinks about that all the time with his accident. It's wholly inappropriate to discuss ways of avoiding the suspension, when this situation could arise again without warning, and nobody can say it won't.
> 
> And implicitly offering an excuse that could be submitted to the DVLA, true or not, is in my view irresponsible, and certainly illegal.
> 
> What I will be doing is composing a list of things I did when this happened to me - in my case after an epileptic fit caused by hypoglycaemia - to tell Matt how I coped, working 30 miles from home, and with a wife who couldn't drive for medical reasons.



This is true Mike.  I've gone over this plenty of times in my head thinking what if something had happened to someone else.  It could have been on the way back with my daughter in the car.  If anything had happened to someone I'm not sure I would have been able to live with myself. 

Hypo awareness doesn't disappear overnight it must have been a gradual change over a long period of time.  I think I've gone along with well I did recognise that one so it's sort of still there?  I have mentioned it on occasions to the DSN's and the consultant but obviously this has now brought it to a head.


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## eggyg (Oct 2, 2016)

Goodness me @Diabeticliberty and @Matt Cycle how awful, I'm just a fledgling diabetic compared to you two so maybe a bit complacent about things at the moment. It's a rotten condition and I know it's too late for us lot but the sooner a cure is found the better. Glad you're both relatively unscathed, take care, we need you both on here to keep things ticking over. Elaine.


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## HOBIE (Oct 2, 2016)

Hope "U" ok Matt. Life at times ! We don't know what's coming next


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## Diabeticliberty (Oct 2, 2016)

mikeyB said:


> And implicitly offering an excuse that could be submitted to the DVLA, true or not, is in my view irresponsible, and certainly illegal.




The illegal and irresponsible points you make are certainly very relevant. I would suggest however that they are only as relevant as the ever growing masses of illegal drivers out on our roads right now completely whacked out of their brains on cocaine and other Class A drugs. We compound this issue  with a highly irresponsible government removing traffic coppers off our roads in the name of the austerity that we are all in together.  I would strongly suspect Matt having had one accident as a result of being hypoglycaemic would be the last person in the world to have another one.  I can tell you from personal experience that accidents  make you far more cautious and prone to a lot more blood testing . Drivers under the influence of cocaine are over confident and feel that nothing can touch them regardless of how many accidents they have.


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## mikeyB (Oct 2, 2016)

That is gloriously irrelevant. Apart from anything else, there aren't "masses" of people driving around loaded to the gills on class A drugs. The police have now got sophisticated roadside tests for drug consumption, and if they suspect drug use not detectable at the roadside, they can order a blood test. After an accident, blood tests for alcohol and drugs are the norm, so there are no drivers high on cocaine who drive around with impunity after an accident. 

I wrote a full explanation of the law on driving under the influence of prescribed and recreational drugs over on the pancreatitis forum, because the law has recently changed. I did that because of the fact that a lot of people with painful pancreatitis are on opiates. 

Now can we get back to helping Matt out instead of railing against the system?


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## mikeyB (Oct 2, 2016)

Incidentally, there are probably more people driving around with undeclared medical conditions that would affect their right to drive than there are driving around high on cocaine. This was highlighted last year when a bin lorry driver killed 6 people in the centre of Glasgow. He had a history of unexplained blackouts which he hid from his employers and the DVLA. He decided for himself that his job was worth more than the lives of others.


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## Marsbartoastie (Oct 2, 2016)

mikeyB said:


> Incidentally, there are probably more people driving around with undeclared medical conditions that would affect their right to drive than there are driving around high on cocaine. This was highlighted last yeI ar when a bin lorry driver killed 6 people in the centre of Glasgow. He had a history of unexplained blackouts which he hid from his employers and the DVLA. He decided for himself that his job was worth more than the lives of others.


You're probably correct as regards cocaine.  At c£40-50 a wrap (probably cut to about 10-20% with Mannitol) it's relatively expensive and therefore the drug of choice for the sort of people who can afford to take cabs.  However, for those on more restricted budgets the drugs of choice are strong weed (not old school hash, but mind-numbingly strong stuff), crack and meth.  If the police tested drivers for these they'd find huge numbers of people driving around high on drugs.  This may not be true in your neck of the woods, but it's commonplace pretty much everywhere else.  However, I take your general point.


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## mikeyB (Oct 2, 2016)

Where exactly is this "pretty much everywhere else"? Commonplace? 

Evidence?


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## Marsbartoastie (Oct 3, 2016)

mikeyB said:


> Where exactly is this "pretty much everywhere else"? Commonplace?
> 
> Evidence?


These stats are pretty shaky (in my opinion), but they indicate that 1 in 12 people aged 16-59 used an illicit drug in 2015...and that's a lot of people.  My personal experience tells me that 1 in 12 is a very conservative estimate.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa.../file/540779/drug-misuse-1516-infographic.pdf


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## mikeyB (Oct 3, 2016)

Don't forget that those stats include occasional drug users. And there is no eveidence that these people are driving, presumably because the question wasn't asked. I don't doubt that some do, but I assume that you don't think that in the UK a group the size of the population of Scotland is driving round drugged to the eyeballs.


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## Owen (Oct 3, 2016)

I fear that the importance of protecting yourself and others is being lost in a fog here.
I thought that I had good awareness  but it appears I don't have as much as I did.
As regards to @Matt Cycle not sharing the experience of helping your daughter, you still can as long as another experienced driver is present. 
People that drive under the influence of drugs will continue to do so until caught, if they were law abiding people, they would not take drugs period.
Being aware of prescription drugs and some over the counter drugs that cause impairment can result in a prosecution for driving without due care and attention at the very minimum.


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## Diabeticliberty (Oct 3, 2016)

mikeyB said:


> Where exactly is this "pretty much everywhere else"? Commonplace?
> 
> Evidence?




I cannot challenge the statistics offered by the Toadstool. The only comments I can add are purely anecdotal. 1 in 12 as a ratio of the population may have tried Class A and a chunk of those will obviously drive afterwards. My own experience came from working as a doorman in a nightclub in Wigan some years ago. I was tasked with conducting body searches on male revellers to attempt to ensure that they were not bringing drugs or weapons into the club. The majority of the clientele and I do mean the vast majority would drive or be driven to the club. They would already be under the influence of ecstasy and other recreational drugs. They would appear extremely happy and dance until 2.00am. They would then leave the club and go to the car park where a sizeable portion of them would continue to dance before getting into their cars or getting into their friends cars and driving or being driven to other locations.  I can only conclude that in Wigan Town Centre on a Friday or Saturday night a lot more than one in twelve drivers would be under the influence of Class A drugs. These individuals returned week on week on week to indulge in the same activities. Clubs all over Britain went through a similar process at that time and some still do. I would respectfully suggest once again that Matt having had a hypoglycaemic event at the wheel would be extremely unlikely to have another one.  I have met him face to face on more than one occasion and he is a very astute, reasoning gentleman whom I would not ever think would even contemplate driving with low blood sugars. I would hope that DVLA might offer the benefit of the doubt. I fear however that they may not. This has the potential to adversely affect his livelihood.


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## Marsbartoastie (Oct 3, 2016)

mikeyB said:


> Don't forget that those stats include occasional drug users. And there is no eveidence that these people are driving, presumably because the question wasn't asked. I don't doubt that some do, but I assume that you don't think that in the UK a group the size of the population of Scotland is driving round drugged to the eyeballs.


Occasional drug users do exist, but generally speaking you don't try sex once, enjoy the experience, and then decide you won't bother with it again.  Of course I don't believe that _all _drug users drive under the influence, but I cycle and cars reeking of weed pass me on a daily basis.  If I know the occupants are off their nuts then the police do too.  However, they simply don't have the time/resources to tackle the problem and only test following an accident.

As a caveat.  I was there in the 80s and 90s when going clubbing _always _involved drug use.  I no longer go clubbing and have _never _had even one drink and got behind the wheel of a car.  However, I'm highly aware of the nature and scale of illegal drug use.  I'd estimate that the percentage of people who drive while high is similar to the percentage who drive after drinking alcohol...and that's a big problem.

Matt is a responsible man who manages his condition to the very best of his ability.  He therefore presents minimal risk behind the wheel of a car.  I do hope that the DVLA will take this into consideration.


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## Flower (Oct 3, 2016)

Having an unexplained hypo or impaired or complete loss of hypo awareness does not present a minimal risk if behind a wheel however well managed and vigilant you are with controlling your diabetes You can take every care to be as well prepared for a journey by testing regularly but if hypo symptoms are not present or have become unrecognisable there is nothing you can do to cover yourself for that eventuality which is why licences are suspended until things improve, or are revoked completely.

It is a seriously tough call to loose your driving licence, it throws everything you rely on into chaos and makes easy daily tasks a real challenge. The DVLA is concerned with the safety of someone to be behind a wheel not to consider the ramifications of losing their licence. It is a horrible, uncertain situation to find yourself in and I hope Matt is able to return to normal duties as soon as possible.


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## Diabeticliberty (Oct 3, 2016)

Marsbartoastie said:


> Occasional drug users do exist, but generally speaking you don't try sex once, enjoy the experience, and then decide you won't bother with it again..




Couldn't possible comment on this as I am a virgin. A very happy virgin but a virgin all the same. Never ever having tried sex I am quite curious. What's it like? If I ever have it will I get pregnant?


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## Marsbartoastie (Oct 3, 2016)

Diabeticliberty said:


> Couldn't possible comment on this as I am a virgin. A very happy virgin but a virgin all the same. Never ever having tried sex I am quite curious. What's it like? If I ever have it will I get pregnant?


I tried it once and it wasn't up to much.  I don't think you'd like it


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## Diabeticliberty (Oct 3, 2016)

Marsbartoastie said:


> I tried it once and it wasn't up to much.  I don't think you'd like it



Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many possible answers and I have a production meeting at 9.00am Best we just leave it at maybe you should try a thoroughbred and not some old donkeys from the knackers yard. I don't know where you might find such a beast but I do love my oats


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## Marsbartoastie (Oct 3, 2016)

On a more serious note.  Having given little thought to the problems faced by T1ers and road safety I've learned a great deal from this thread...so thanks to everyone for their input.  However, I can't help feeling that T1ers represent a 'soft target'.  Those who use mobile phones while driving, for example, are largely ignored by the police and don't face the rigours of scrutiny by the DVLA.  I know Mikey will want stats...so there were less than 8,500 prosecutions per year between 2008-2011...despite the fact that we all see this particular illegal practice every day.  It's one rule for them and another for those with diabetes.


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## Northerner (Oct 3, 2016)

Marsbartoastie said:


> It's one rule for them and another for those with diabetes.


This was certainly the case until recently, when people with diabetes would lose their license if the EVER needed assistance with a hypo - even a night hypo when they were tucked up in bed. Someone going to bed dead drunk and needing help could then happily get in their car the following morning... Thankfully the nonsense of this was overturned thanks to Diabetes UK challenging it 

Personally, I see dangerous drivers every day - there are a minimum of three cars that will go through lights after they have turned red, regardless of whether pedestrians have tried to cross  I used to worry about my Dad in his later years as you simply don't know what might happen when you set off at 86 years old. He was a good driver, but when he died they discovered a tumour that meant he could have gone without warning at any time - there must be thousands like him driving around all the time. [socialism rant]If there wasn't such a car culture and better, convenient, reliable and cheap public transport I've no doubt thousands of lives would be saved every year  [/socialism rant]


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## Owen (Oct 3, 2016)

Marsbartoastie said:


> On a more serious note.  Having given little thought to the problems faced by T1ers and road safety I've learned a great deal from this thread...so thanks to everyone for their input.  However, I can't help feeling that T1ers represent a 'soft target'.  Those who use mobile phones while driving, for example, are largely ignored by the police and don't face the rigours of scrutiny by the DVLA.  I know Mikey will want stats...so there were less than 8,500 prosecutions per year between 2008-2011...despite the fact that we all see this particular illegal practice every day.  It's one rule for them and another for those with diabetes.


Would you trust an insulin dependent person to be driving an ambulance when are being conveyed at speed to hospital.


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## Robin (Oct 3, 2016)

Owen said:


> Would you trust an insulin dependent person to be driving an ambulance when are being conveyed at speed to hospital.


I'd rather an insulin dependent one than the overweight breathless one who nearly dropped me when I was being carried down the stairs head first ( obstetric emergency, don't ask!) Happily, the only other time I've been in an ambulance, a year later, (after a car hit mine up the rear end,) I coincidentally had the same crew, and he'd slimmed down and got fit!


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## Marsbartoastie (Oct 3, 2016)

Northerner said:


> Thankfully the nonsense of this was overturned thanks to Diabetes UK challenging it... [/socialism rant]


It's good to know that the campaigning delivered results.
You can have a socialist rant in my general direction any time...it turns me on


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## mikeyB (Oct 3, 2016)

I couldn't agree more about the mobile phone thing. The government are considering upping the offence to 6 points. One of my friends was killed by a woman using a phone when he was on the pedestrian crossing. His shoe was found 20 yards away in the pub car park. This was before the offence was upped the scale to causing death by dangerous driving, so it was just careless driving. Aye, right.

Matt isn't off the road because he's a T1. He's off the road because he had an unexplained and unpredictable blackout and trashed the car. That's how the DVLA see it. A clean driving record doesn't help. All they want to see is no more blackouts for 12 months. Seems reasonable and fair to me, and I've experienced it.


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## Marsbartoastie (Oct 3, 2016)

mikeyB said:


> I couldn't agree more about the mobile phone thing...
> 
> Matt isn't off the road because he's a T1. He's off the road because he had an unexplained and unpredictable blackout and trashed the car. That's how the DVLA see it. A clean driving record doesn't help. All they want to see is no more blackouts for 12 months. Seems reasonable and fair to me, and I've experienced it.



I need to concentrate fully on the job in hand when I'm driving.  If my phone rings or sends me a notification I find it incredibly difficult to resist...so I now turn it off.

I understand Matt's situation.  The forum is doing a good job educating uninformed plebs like me.  One day...in the far distant future...I too will be a diabetes guru


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## Diabeticliberty (Oct 3, 2016)

mikeyB said:


> I couldn't agree more about the mobile phone thing. The government are considering upping the offence to 6 points. One of my friends was killed by a woman using a phone when he was on the pedestrian crossing. His shoe was found 20 yards away in the pub car park. This was before the offence was upped the scale to causing death by dangerous driving, so it was just careless driving. Aye, right.
> 
> Matt isn't off the road because he's a T1. He's off the road because he had an unexplained and unpredictable blackout and trashed the car. That's how the DVLA see it. A clean driving record doesn't help. All they want to see is no more blackouts for 12 months. Seems reasonable and fair to me, and I've experienced it.






I've experienced it too. Had I not gone to see the head of diabetology at my hospital and personally explained exactly what had happened with the hypo that I had. How I had taken steps to ensure that as far it was in my control the thing was never going to happen again and how if I lost my license I was effectively going to lose my job then he would in every likelihood not 'got on side with me' and helped me fight my own corner. Because he was prepared to do this I lost my license for 3 weeks and not 12 months. I suggest taking very proactive steps to defend your own position. This can make all the difference getting a positive result or not. I suspect I was quite lucky. Actually I suspect I was extremely lucky. The thing is though it has never happened to me since. In this respect my doctors faith in me appears to have been legitimate. I could not have afforded to have been pout out of work


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## mikeyB (Oct 3, 2016)

Marsbartoastie said:


> I need to concentrate fully on the job in hand when I'm driving.  If my phone rings or sends me a notification I find it incredibly difficult to resist...so I now turn it off.
> 
> I understand Matt's situation.  The forum is doing a good job educating uninformed plebs like me.  One day...in the far distant future...I too will be a diabetes guru


Nobody is a diabetes guru. I'm not, for sure. I've learned stuff on this forum as well. I've learned more about cats and DLs  bum than I care to, but you take the rough with the smooth.


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## mikeyB (Oct 3, 2016)

Diabeticliberty said:


> I've experienced it too. Had I not gone to see the head of diabetology at my hospital and personally explained exactly what had happened with the hypo that I had. How I had taken steps to ensure that as far it was in my control the thing was never going to happen again and how if I lost my license I was effectively going to lose my job then he would in every likelihood not 'got on side with me' and helped me fight my own corner. Because he was prepared to do this I lost my license for 3 weeks and not 12 months. I suggest taking very proactive steps to defend your own position. This can make all the difference getting a positive result or not. I suspect I was quite lucky. Actually I suspect I was extremely lucky. The thing is though it has never happened to me since. In this respect my doctors faith in me appears to have been legitimate. I could not have afforded to have been pout out of work


Aye, I get that DL. You were very lucky. Matts problem is that he doesn't know it won't happen again, and neither will his consultant, but he should get to the head of the queue for CGM and pump if he plays his cards right.


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## Diabeticliberty (Oct 3, 2016)

In summary Victor a cats tongue is rough and my arse is smood just lika silk


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## mikeyB (Oct 3, 2016)

Don't say I never provide you with straight lines, DL


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## Matt Cycle (Oct 6, 2016)

As expected, received a letter from the DVLA today revoking my licence.  I can re-apply in 12 months. The wording states 'they have received medical information that I do not have a clear understanding of diabetes and its impact on safe driving'.  Not great wording as I do understand.  They've included information about applying for concessionary bus fares.  It makes me feel like some sort of cripple when I'm perfectly able bodied.


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## Northerner (Oct 6, 2016)

Matt Cycle said:


> As expected, received a letter from the DVLA today revoking my licence.  I can re-apply in 12 months. The wording states 'they have received medical information that I do not have a clear understanding of diabetes and its impact on safe driving'.  Not great wording as I do understand.  They've included information about applying for concessionary bus fares.  It makes me feel like some sort of cripple when I'm perfectly able bodied.


Sorry to hear this Matt  What nonsense though, to put it like that, it makes it sound as though what happened was because you had a cavalier and ignorant attitude to your responsibilities, and nothing could be further from the truth  Hope you can find a way of managing that doesn't cause too much inconvenience, and that things go well for you


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## Martin Canty (Oct 6, 2016)

Matt Cycle said:


> I do not have a clear understanding of diabetes and its impact on safe driving'


That is just Bull...... OK, for safety they have suspended your license but to say that you don't have a clear understanding of Diabetes is just wrong.


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## Rosiecarmel (Oct 6, 2016)

So sorry to read that, Matt! I wish there was something I could do X

On a selfish note, I sent off the DIAB1 form a few days ago telling the DVLA I'm on insulin as I'm too scared to take any lessons before they are aware (I'm a pansy) but does the hypo I had last night have any implications? It does worry me...


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## Matt Cycle (Oct 6, 2016)

Rosiecarmel said:


> So sorry to read that, Matt! I wish there was something I could do X
> 
> On a selfish note, I sent off the DIAB1 form a few days ago telling the DVLA I'm on insulin as I'm too scared to take any lessons before they are aware (I'm a pansy) but does the hypo I had last night have any implications? It does worry me...



You need to be careful as your episode last night means one more episode requiring assistance in the next 12 months could cause problems.

In essence it's self policing.  So each 3 year renewal it asks do you know what hypoglycaemia is?;  Are you aware of the symptoms and do you get them?;  Have you had less than 2 episodes of hypoglycaemia in the last 12 months requiring the assistance of another person.  In theory you could lie through your teeth and I suspect a number of people do to keep their licence.


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## Marsbartoastie (Oct 6, 2016)

I know you were expecting the suspension Matt, but that letter was appallingly worded.  The DVLA needs a kick up the jacksie and a lesson in good manners.


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## mikeyB (Oct 6, 2016)

My suspension was caused by an epileptic fit due to hypoglycaemia, but the notification only mentioned the epileptic fit. Since that time, I've been epileptic in the eyes of the DVLA, and I always used to receive the epilepsy questionnaire they send out. They work to tramlines, not guidelines, so they always use a one size fits all wording. They don't do diplomacy.

I don't drive now for other reasons, so I kinda miss the DVLA's utterances.


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## Matt Cycle (Oct 6, 2016)

Martin Canty said:


> That is just Bull...... OK, for safety they have suspended your license but to say that you don't have a clear understanding of Diabetes is just wrong.





Marsbartoastie said:


> I know you were expecting the suspension Matt, but that letter was appallingly worded.  The DVLA needs a kick up the jacksie and a lesson in good manners.



Further down the letter it states "We would only be able to consider a re-application from you when you can demonstrate that your understanding of diabetes (including hypoglycaemia and its effects on driving) have improved."

What's that supposed to mean?  If they want I'll give them a f*****g essay now - Type 1 diabetes mellitus is an autoimmune condition where the body attacks the insulin producing beta cells in the pancreas causing them to die.  The hormone insulin helps to regulate the body's blood glucose levels.  The patient will require insulin injections for the rest of their life. The patient is required to balance the insulin with carbohydrate eaten and exercise taken to maintain blood glucose levels.  Hypoglycaemia (literally, low blood sugar) is where the blood glucose level falls too low causing symptoms such as sweating, shaking, confusion and can lead to unconsciousness.  Hypoglycaemia is treated with fast acting glucose e.g. lucozade, glucose tablets, sweets etc., to bring blood glucose levels back up to a normal level.  Oh and as for hypoglycaemia and driving it's not a good idea as I recently found out. 

That's off the top of my head.  If they want I'll do my homework and read the wikipedia page.


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## trophywench (Oct 6, 2016)

LOL at your reaction to the DVLA letter - don't bother wasting the ink/laser toner is my advice.  They can't do anything with such a letter cos it ain't in the script that the vast majority of their employees have in front of them - bit like asking a '111' operator an intelligent question - they aren't allowed to let any of the brain cells rub together in order to activate an intelligent answer whilst at work (if indeed they have any active grain cells in the first place LOL)

Can I just say that I strongly suspect that much the same thing has happened to both of you?  Pockets of unused insulin of any kind can hang around in the skin (well, under the dermis) for up to 12 years and may release themselves at any time for absolutely no reason that is predictable or preventable.  I have had a few horrific, very long lasting hypos 3 or 4 times in my life - last one started during a consultation with my DSN one Friday afternoon and I drank THREE bottles of Lucozade and ate half a packet of custard creams over an hour and a half before it even started to get above 3.  She hadn't planned on spending her weekend there any more than I had!

The previous two were about 4 years earlier - and led to two very damaged firm's cars and bent crash barrier on the M42, followed by 12 months suspension of my driving licence.

You can't do anything to prevent this - it just happens randomly but of course - the longer we inject for and the more insulin we use, the more likely it becomes.

(This is yet another reason why pumping is better - we just use less insulin all round.)


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## Marsbartoastie (Oct 6, 2016)

It would cost the DVLA nothing to rework this letter.  Something along lines of "Thank you for informing us etc.  Following this unfortunate incident etc."  They could append further information for those who may be ignorant about diabetes and its complications.  This sort of rude ineptitude and lack of professionalism makes me cross.


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## mikeyB (Oct 7, 2016)

Agree, Jenny, about the pumping. That's why I mentioned somewhere on this topic that Matt should go the top of the queue for CGM and pump.

And Marsbar, when I was plying my trade in War Pensions, their communications were gone over with a fine tooth comb to prevent situations such as this, but that was a very sensitive customer base. The DVLA have just never bothered. The DWP went to the same charm school as the DVLA.


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## Rosiecarmel (Oct 7, 2016)

trophywench said:


> bit like asking a '111' operator an intelligent question - they aren't allowed to let any of the brain cells rub together in order to activate an intelligent answer whilst at work (if indeed they have any active grain cells in the first place LOL)



Case in point, last night.
"Im diabetic and was meant to take 2.5 units of fast acting insulin but I took 25 without thinking. I'm just after advice on what to do re going to sleep.."

"ok, were you supposed to take 25 units?"

"no it was accidental. I meant to take 2.5 but rounded up to 3"

"ok, so not 25?"

"no, 2.5"

"right, and are you diabetic?"

Erm no I'm not I just take insulin for fun!!!

To be fair she did get an ambulance out so I'm glad I called but christ a bit of common sense wouldn't hurt!


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## mikeyB (Oct 7, 2016)

To be fair, Rosie, they were probably tired from their day shift on the tills at Tesco.


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## Copepod (Oct 7, 2016)

Rosiecarmel said:


> Case in point, last night.
> "Im diabetic and was meant to take 2.5 units of fast acting insulin but I took 25 without thinking. I'm just after advice on what to do re going to sleep.."
> 
> "ok, were you supposed to take 25 units?"
> ...



To be fair, it's not unknown for people who share homes with people who treat their diabetes with insulin to inject their non diabetic selves or other people. Suicides and murders with insulin are fortunately rare, but do happen.


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## Northerner (Oct 7, 2016)

Copepod said:


> To be fair, it's not unknown for people who share homes with people who treat their diabetes with insulin to inject their non diabetic selves or other people. Suicides and murders with insulin are fortunately rare, but do happen.


Maybe so, but Rosie had already explained the situation fully - that she was diabetic and had taken the wrong dose of insulin. Obviously, that information hadn't gone in... I was taught to respond with clarification by repeating what the person had said was the problem (not medical) - 'So, you have diabetes and you've taken 25 units of insulin when you should have taken only 2.5 units?'


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## Copepod (Oct 7, 2016)

In medical situations, particularly where the person may be in a state of impaired consciousness, it's often better practice to ask questions that can be answered only yes or no.


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## trophywench (Oct 7, 2016)

Yeah but when you are hypo, that becomes more difficult.  An ambulance lady who had been called out to scrape me up from one of the Ironbridge Gorge museums when severely hypo asked me if I could tell her my name.  (Which I was damn sure my husband had only just told her cos I heard him - we were on the motorbike and he'd already force-fed me everything we had and various things he'd been able to buy in their shop, which was limited)

I couldn't actually remember it !  LOL  So as I recognised this as being EXTREME stupidity on my part I thought quickly and replied 'Well - of course I know my name - but I'm just not going to tell YOU!'  Much hilarity followed but they were actually already conveying me to Telford hospital A&E so that was OK.  To my exceeding embarrassment - the ambulance staff repeated my response when they handed me over - so I closed my eyes and pretended to be completely out of it, until I heard Pete's voice again !  LOL


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## mikeyB (Oct 7, 2016)

Aye, TW, when I was recovering from my hypo induced fit in Tesco, the paramedic was the spitting image of George Clooney. I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. I just lay in the ambulance with a beatific smile on my face wondering if I could bullshit my way past St Peter at the pearly gates. It was only when we got to A&E (which didn't have pearly gates) that I slowly returned to reality.


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## Radders (Oct 8, 2016)

I (apparently) have the irritating habit when hypo of saying I'm OK even if I'm really not. My lovely hubby learned that the best way to tell is to ask me what day it is. That appears to be a bit of my brain that shuts off first!


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## Martin Canty (Oct 8, 2016)

Radders said:


> My lovely hubby learned that the best way to tell is to ask me what day it is


When I'm wearing my emergency services hat we typically ask 3 questions of someone who is in an altered level of consciousness

Who (are you)
What (happened)
When (what date or day)
We will probably repeat these at various stages depending on the progression of the call; we are also evaluating the results of any questions as we are talking to & assessing the patient.


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## Copepod (Oct 8, 2016)

Don't you use Glasgow coma scale, @Martin Canty? Very useful scale. One night on isle of Rum, checking on partner who'd landed on his nose during an adventure race prologue was particularly memorable. Race medics decided that a partner with medical skills would spot as change in consciousness level quicker than anyone else. I didn't do a full set of neuro obs, so we could both get more sleep. He was a bit odd, even at so-called normal times! Anyway, he answered questions at hourly intervals through the night and was able to race day and night for next few days.


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## Owen (Oct 8, 2016)

Martin Canty said:


> When I'm wearing my emergency services hat we typically ask 3 questions of someone who is in an altered level of consciousness
> 
> Who (are you)
> What (happened)
> ...


Pretty much the same here. I like to through in a humorous question as well


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## Bubbsie (Oct 8, 2016)

Rosiecarmel said:


> Case in point, last night.
> "Im diabetic and was meant to take 2.5 units of fast acting insulin but I took 25 without thinking. I'm just after advice on what to do re going to sleep.."
> 
> "ok, were you supposed to take 25 units?"
> ...


OOh Rosie couldn't agree more...called 111 way back in June this year...when my journey to Diabetes started out with cellulitis...gave them all my symptoms...massively swollen  hot leg...just slept for 14 hours straight...peeing for the UK...hot...sweating...oh no they said...not suitable for A& E...see doctor...managed to see doctor same day...straight to hospital...infection marker was 325...not a great deal of faith in 111...


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## Owen (Oct 8, 2016)

Bubbsie said:


> OOh Rosie couldn't agree more...called 111 way back in June this year...when my journey to Diabetes started out with cellulitis...gave them all my symptoms...massively swollen  hot leg...just slept for 14 hours straight...peeing for the UK...hot...sweating...oh no they said...not suitable for A& E...see doctor...managed to see doctor same day...straight to hospital...infection marker was 325...not a great deal of faith in 111...


EMAS would have sent a first responder, who then would have escalated you to an admission. One of the benefits of being in a rural county


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## Bubbsie (Oct 8, 2016)

Owen said:


> EMAS would have sent a first responder, who then would have escalated you to an admission. One of the benefits of being in a rural county


Owen...wouldn't rely on 111 after that...been told if any sign of it again...straight to A & E...by time got to hospital told I needed to be admitted...or next step was sepsis...tachycardic ...possibly organ failure...shocked I was given such duff advice...


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## Owen (Oct 8, 2016)

Bubbsie said:


> Owen...wouldn't rely on 111 after that...been told if any sign of it again...straight to A & E...by time got to hospital told I needed to be admitted...or next step was sepsis...tachycardic ...possibly organ failure...shocked I was given such duff advice...


That's what you get for living in less deprived county


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