# The Fast Fix: Diabetes - ITV, 13th/14th June 2018



## Northerner (Jun 9, 2018)

This sounds a lot like the Newcastle Diet:

https://www.itv.com/presscentre/ep1week24/fast-fix-diabetes


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## Matt Cycle (Jun 9, 2018)

I wish they'd get the title correct. This diet will not fix my type of diabetes.  I don't want people at work or anywhere coming up and saying ooh I saw this programme and you can fix it by doing this.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 9, 2018)

It doesn't 'fix' Type 2 either.


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## Northerner (Jun 9, 2018)

Matt Cycle said:


> I wish they'd get the title correct. This diet will not fix my type of diabetes.  I don't want people at work or anywhere coming up and saying ooh I saw this programme and you can fix it by doing this.


It seems to be a perennial problem, unfortunately. On the trailer they do mention that it's all about Type 2 diabetes, so hopefully your work colleagues will not comment if they actually watch it 

My concern about these programmes is also for many of the Type 2 people whose diabetes may not be 'reversible' by dietary modifications, who yet will be made to feel they are 'failing' if it's not achievable for them. Diabetes of all kinds has many and varied manifestations and the exclusive emphasis on diet may help a very large number of people, but not all, and it shouldn't be presented in that way. Just my humble opinion!


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## AdeleTurner72 (Jun 10, 2018)

Northerner said:


> My concern about these programmes is also for many of the Type 2 people whose diabetes may not be 'reversible' by dietary modifications, who yet will be made to feel they are 'failing' if it's not achievable for them. Diabetes of all kinds has many and varied manifestations and the exclusive emphasis on diet may help a very large number of people, but not all, and it shouldn't be presented in that way. Just my humble opinion!



Agreed Northerner.
I feel more stress and pressure from well-meaning individuals saying "oh but you can reverse it by losing weight" than I do from having this condition!


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## Beck S (Jun 10, 2018)

And they will then believe the TV over you when you say the programme was wrong


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## AdeleTurner72 (Jun 10, 2018)

Beck S said:


> And they will then believe the TV over you when you say the programme was wrong


Exactly. I'm not convinced by this "curing" diabetes message. It's dangerous for people to misunderstand and think type 1 can be cured, and in reference to type 2, I think it's about really good control of BG levels and Hba1c.
My BMI is 25.5, I don't think of myself as overweight, yet a lot of these "cures" are about weight loss rather than lower carb eating and long term health maintenance.

Sorry folks, I'll shut up now!


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## Beck S (Jun 10, 2018)

Exactly.  It took me a while to get my Mum to understand it because the newspapers she reads talk about cures and similar, but she does get it now.  Hopefully as more people start to understand it will get better.


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## Lyn68 (Jun 10, 2018)

Having a fairly new diagnosis and still stumbling my way along if one more person tells me I can reverse it I may well scream. While people may have amazing results for me it’s just really well maintained which is great for them but it may not be possible for everyone. They are still diabetic and any change in a strict routine will send levels back up. Diabetes anyway can throw a curve ball no matter how well maintained.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 10, 2018)

Lyn68 said:


> Having a fairly new diagnosis and still stumbling my way along if one more person tells me I can reverse it I may well scream. While people may have amazing results for me it’s just really well maintained which is great for them but it may not be possible for everyone. They are still diabetic and any change in a strict routine will send levels back up. Diabetes anyway can throw a curve ball no matter how well maintained.


Precisely Lyn...good management is what it is all about for me...I am diabetic...will always be diabetic...as long as I'm a well controlled diabetic that's my ultimate goal.


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## Maz2 (Jun 10, 2018)

Matt Cycle said:


> I wish they'd get the title correct. This diet will not fix my type of diabetes.  I don't want people at work or anywhere coming up and saying ooh I saw this programme and you can fix it by doing this.


That is my concern Matt.  Even Type IIs cannot all reverse their diabetes and what worries me is that this programme is going to make out that everyone can do so and if you don't it is your own fault.  No-one can stay on a liquid diet or 800 calories all their life.


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## Maz2 (Jun 10, 2018)

Bubbsie said:


> It doesn't 'fix' Type 2 either.


Exactly Bubbsie.  I am concerned this is going to give the impression that everyone can "fix" it which it not true.  It won't be possible to stay on a liquid diet or 800 cals for life.


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## Maz2 (Jun 10, 2018)

Northerner said:


> It seems to be a perennial problem, unfortunately. On the trailer they do mention that it's all about Type 2 diabetes, so hopefully your work colleagues will not comment if they actually watch it
> 
> My concern about these programmes is also for many of the Type 2 people whose diabetes may not be 'reversible' by dietary modifications, who yet will be made to feel they are 'failing' if it's not achievable for them. Diabetes of all kinds has many and varied manifestations and the exclusive emphasis on diet may help a very large number of people, but not all, and it shouldn't be presented in that way. Just my humble opinion!


Entirely agree with your Northerner.  I think the media are becoming a bit of a menace with this at the moment.  Perhaps not on purpose but I wish they would not keep giving the impression that all you have to do is change the diet and you will get rid of diabetes.   it does not always happen.


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## Maz2 (Jun 10, 2018)

Agree with AdeleTurner 72.  I am pre-diabetic, got out of it, in it again.  I was underweight but have managed to pull it back a bit now so that the BMI is 18.8 which is just in the lower limit.  I think the media are causing more problems keep on banging on about losing weight etc, etc, etc.  It is not as simple as that.  My friend's hubby is diabetic and underweight so cannot do liquid diets or 800 cals; neither can I as I would lose too much weight again.  My friend's brother is 23 stone, not ideal I know, but is not diabetic.   It is not as simple as weight in every case. 

Think I had better shut up now too after all these posts.


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## Maz2 (Jun 10, 2018)

One other thing - my Dad in Law's neighbour lost weight and went from diabetic hba1c to normal levels. She said to the doctor that she was not diabetic now. He said she was and always would be, she just had better control.  I know that can depend on the GP though.


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## Mark Parrott (Jun 11, 2018)

Maz2 said:


> Exactly Bubbsie.  I am concerned this is going to give the impression that everyone can "fix" it which it not true.  It won't be possible to stay on a liquid diet or 800 cals for life.


Not only not possible, but highly inadvisable long term.  I'm no longer overweight but I'm still diabetic.


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## Maz2 (Jun 11, 2018)

Exactly Mark.  I am sick and tired of all this media nonsense about diabetes is due to being overweight or obese.  I am sure that in some cases that is correct, as is the case with anything, but in a lot of cases it is not.  It is not fair to insinuate that it is the diabetic patient's fault that they have diabetes. I mentioned this to my GP as he has a special interest in diabetes and he said it is certainly not the fault of the patient.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 11, 2018)

Maz2 said:


> Exactly Mark.  I am sick and tired of all this media nonsense about diabetes is due to being overweight or obese.  I am sure that in some cases that is correct, as is the case with anything, but in a lot of cases it is not.  It is not fair to insinuate that it is the diabetic patient's fault that they have diabetes. I mentioned this to my GP as he has a special interest in diabetes and he said it is certainly not the fault of the patient.


Maz there is clearly a genetic pre-disposition to diabetes...we have a family history I was unaware of until I made some enquiries into it...it isn't just a weight factor...that doesn't help but it doesn't cause diabetes...in my own case I was very fit & active...aerobics five times a week...swimming every morning before work...running... circuit training...I was doing my degree full time & working lots of hours in my student days...suddenly I am tired...lethargic no energy...it's very likely my diabetes started many years ago with me in complete ignorance of that...so tired I took less work...did less exercise...ate more carbs...craved more carbs...I accept responsibility for not going to see my GP however like many others I attributed that to work...studying...stress...with hindsight I had the classic symptoms...for me now the issue once diagnosed should be not how we got it...whether it was deserved or not (it is never deserved)….it should be about we can find the best way to manage it...obtain good control.


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## AdeleTurner72 (Jun 11, 2018)

Mark Parrott said:


> Not only not possible, but highly inadvisable long term.  I'm no longer overweight but I'm still diabetic.


Exactly Mark.
Your results are an inspiration to us all. I hope one day to reduce or even stop my metformin, by achieving similar continued good BG control. But I would never consider that a cure, because I know that if I went back to eating prediagnosis style, the Hba1c would soon skyrocket again.


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## Maz2 (Jun 11, 2018)

Bubbsie said:


> Maz there is clearly a genetic pre-disposition to diabetes...we have a family history I was unaware of until I made some enquiries into it...it isn't just a weight factor...that doesn't help but it doesn't cause diabetes...in my own case I was very fit & active...aerobics five times a week...swimming every morning before work...running... circuit training...I was doing my degree full time & working lots of hours in my student days...suddenly I am tired...lethargic no energy...it's very likely my diabetes started many years ago with me in complete ignorance of that...so tired I took less work...did less exercise...ate more carbs...craved more carbs...I accept responsibility for not going to see my GP however like many others I attributed that to work...studying...stress...with hindsight I had the classic symptoms...for me now the issue once diagnosed should be not how we got it...whether it was deserved or not (it is never deserved)….it should be about we can find the best way to manage it...obtain good control.


I cannot find anything in my family but I am only in touch with three cousins on my mom's side.  My parents, born in 1913 and 1918 would not have had the amount of food and lifestyle for diabetes to show up I don't think.  I am getting worried that there may be something genetic that I don't know about and I will end up not being able to sort this out.  I am going to continue to battle on.  

I


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## kentish maid (Jun 13, 2018)

This is on tonight and tomorrow, guess I will watch it, but am reserving judgement on whether I will learn anything from it. Imho it is a chance for a group of so called celebrities to make some cash, bit like the programmes where Miriam Gargoyle and the ex dart player (Bristow?) investigated retirement abroad.


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## Northerner (Jun 13, 2018)

kentish maid said:


> This is on tonight and tomorrow, guess I will watch it, but am reserving judgement on whether I will learn anything from it. Imho it is a chance for a group of so called celebrities to make some cash, bit like the programmes where Miriam Gargoyle and the ex dart player (Bristow?) investigated retirement abroad.


They interviewed one of the participants on BBC Breakfast yesterday morning. Throughout it was being presented as an effective 'cure' fo all, but the person being interviewed did say, in passing, that it might work for 25-75% of people - if you hadn't been familiar with the facts you would probably have missed it, it wasn't picked up on by the interviewer  

I daresay it's great for people who are able to benefit from the regime, and who also have access to the high level of support from healthcare professionals required to follow the course safely - something which we already know is already severely lacking even at the most basic level  I fear that sensationalist programming like this may give false hope to many, and lay a huge guilt trip on many more  I will watch it - maybe they will be clearer about the actual success rates and the people it will not be able to help. Five subjects is hardly a significant study group


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## Maz2 (Jun 13, 2018)

Northerner said:


> They interviewed one of the participants on BBC Breakfast yesterday morning. Throughout it was being presented as an effective 'cure' fo all, but the person being interviewed did say, in passing, that it might work for 25-75% of people - if you hadn't been familiar with the facts you would probably have missed it, it wasn't picked up on by the interviewer
> 
> I daresay it's great for people who are able to benefit from the regime, and who also have access to the high level of support from healthcare professionals required to follow the course safely - something which we already know is already severely lacking even at the most basic level  I fear that sensationalist programming like this may give false hope to many, and lay a huge guilt trip on many more  I will watch it - maybe they will be clearer about the actual success rates and the people it will not be able to help. Five subjects is hardly a significant study group


Exactly Northerner and they have probably deliberately chosen the five people who it did work for, hence slanting it in favour of "curing" diabetes.  This is why I do not trust the media.


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## Stitch147 (Jun 13, 2018)

Im probably not going to watch it as I might start ranting at the telly!


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## Mark Parrott (Jun 13, 2018)

Stitch147 said:


> Im probably not going to watch it as I might start ranting at the telly!


Me too.


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## Stitch147 (Jun 13, 2018)

Mark Parrott said:


> Me too.


Every time I see the ad for it I'm like there's no such thing as a fast fix for anything, including diabetes!


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## Pine Marten (Jun 13, 2018)

Oh dear, I recorded this to watch later, but judging by the posts here I fear I will end up shouting at the telly and getting all hot and bothered 

The presenter chappie was on BBC Breakfast yesterday (or day before) and he did stress several times that this was for type 2s, so I suppose he was trying! 

I tend to say now to people that it's like being an alcoholic - you're always an alcoholic but you may have good control, and they seem to understand that. So, ditto diabetes....


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## grovesy (Jun 13, 2018)

Pine Marten said:


> Oh dear, I recorded this to watch later, but judging by the posts here I fear I will end up shouting at the telly and getting all hot and bothered
> 
> The presenter chappie was on BBC Breakfast yesterday (or day before) and he did stress several times that this was for type 2s, so I suppose he was trying!
> 
> I tend to say now to people that it's like being an alcoholic - you're always an alcoholic but you may have good control, and they seem to understand that. So, ditto diabetes....


He also said because of his Ethnicity he was more at risk from getting which he was not aware of.


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## Northerner (Jun 13, 2018)

I'll be interested to hear what the follow-up to the diet is like - will they follow a course of testing or just blindly follow prescribed menus? At the end of it, will they actually understand any more about how their bodies work, and what they tolerate well as individuals? This is the sort of knowledge you need to ensure that you can make this a maintainable transformation, and not just a 'Fast Fix'.


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## Maz2 (Jun 13, 2018)

I think perhaps the best thing to do is watch it and see what they say. I suspect they have p icked a few people for which the treatment has worked and will then insinuate "everybody" can do it which is utter rubbish.  As I have said previously I am beginning to think the media, rather than helping, are becoming a bit of a menace with all this.


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## Mark Parrott (Jun 13, 2018)

I would like a follow up programme in a years time to see how they are getting on.


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## Flower (Jun 13, 2018)

It's not even been on tv yet and a lady at the bus stop told me there was a programme on tonight about people like me.  I told her I've tried shakes and they hadn't worked. Quite honestly I can't be bothered to engage.

I wish they wouldn't sensationalise it as a fix, that to me sounds a permanent solution not continual hard work to maintain the necessary level of control. Once the cameras have gone and there isn't a handy professor and medical team around to chivvy them along it will be interesting to see if the 'fix' can be maintained. For now I am a cynic !


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## kentish maid (Jun 13, 2018)

Mark Parrott said:


> I would like a follow up programme in a years time to see how they are getting on.


I've just seen a pig fly past


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## Amigo (Jun 13, 2018)

According to the tv and newspapers, I should have been cured of everything yesterday! In fact I’m amazed anybody suffers from anything because apparently there’s a miracle cure for every malady and I can’t think why we are all missing it! 

If you don’t believe me, go on YouTube and there’s a million and one crack pot ideas for curing even the most intractable and serious conditions!


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## HOBIE (Jun 13, 2018)

Anyone of us might pick a small amount of info up ?   "Every little helps" !


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## Amigo (Jun 13, 2018)

HOBIE said:


> Anyone of us might pick a small amount of info up ?   "Every little helps" !



We certainly might Hobie. Thing is, I’m not so much worried about what we pick up from this as general Joe Public who’ll watch it and decide this is all our own fault because the tele told them so! And believe me, not all will differentiate between type 1 and 2.


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## HOBIE (Jun 13, 2018)

Amigo said:


> We certainly might Hobie. Thing is, I’m not so much worried about what we pick up from this as general Joe Public who’ll watch it and decide this is all our own fault because the tele told them so! And believe me, not all will differentiate between type 1 and 2.


Can you imagine living with T1 for ALL of your life. Any small bit of info I can get to make things better is good.


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## Amigo (Jun 13, 2018)

HOBIE said:


> Can you imagine living with T1 for ALL of your life. Any small bit of info I can get to make things better is good.



Not on a programme dedicated exclusively to type 2’s though I hope Hobie! Somehow, I don’t think extreme diets are going to ‘cure’ your type of diabetes. 
I’m always willing to learn however and happily lap up useful information from people who know what they’re talking about. We all should.


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## HOBIE (Jun 13, 2018)

They should be a different term or illness between T1 & T2 ?   I was on the programme with Angela Rippon twice & the producer or someone made a storey about a T2 who was in her 30s actually 70 odd. Only 1 person beat me on all the tests & then I had been T1 for 50years. Can you imagine how I feel at times ?  Patients ?


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## CathyB (Jun 13, 2018)

I’m getting more wound up as I watch, it’s taking me right back to the diabolical DESMOND experience.  Each person introduced so far is not controlling their diet so no wonder their bg is high.  Why would you need a starvation diet when low carb works with most of us!  This just gives the wrong impression about type 2, clearly it’s all about being fat and lazy.....grrrrrrr!


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## kentish maid (Jun 13, 2018)

Interesting - if they 'cure' all us type 2 diabetics the NHS will be able to afford to pay for more doctors .......


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## Amigo (Jun 13, 2018)

HOBIE said:


> They should be a different term or illness between T1 & T2 ?   I was on the programme with Angela Rippon twice & the producer or someone made a storey about a T2 who was in her 30s actually 70 odd. Only 1 person beat me on all the tests & then I had been T1 for 50years. Can you imagine how I feel at times ?  Patients ?



I hadn’t appreciated Angela Rippon was an expert on diabetes. Fancy that!


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## HOBIE (Jun 13, 2018)

Angela Rippon was a real nice person. She saw my pump at dinner time & asked me about it. It was the directors who wanted to make a storey about T2 . SHOCK like newspapers. 200 people & only one could beat me ? T1 for 50yrs would that not be a reasonable storey ?


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## HOBIE (Jun 13, 2018)

Amigo said:


> I hadn’t appreciated Angela Rippon was an expert on diabetes. Fancy that!


The programme was called "How to stay Young". Lots of fit people.


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## Amigo (Jun 13, 2018)

HOBIE said:


> Angela Rippon was a real nice person. She saw my pump at dinner time & asked me about it. It was the directors who wanted to make a storey about T2 . SHOCK like newspapers. 200 people & only one could beat me ? T1 for 50yrs would that not be a reasonable storey ?



You seem keen to get on the tv so go for it Hobie!

You’ll see however that this thread is about a programme dedicated to the controversial subject of ‘curing’ type 2 diabetes (not type 1) and as you’ve pointed out, you don’t think type 1 and 2 should have the same ‘term or illness’.


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## kentish maid (Jun 13, 2018)

I am confused. They are having 800 calories a day, but they don't seem to be drinking water. Am I missing something or do the shakes really replace everything? (food and drink)


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## HOBIE (Jun 13, 2018)

Amigo said:


> You seem keen to get on the tv so go for it Hobie!
> 
> You’ll see however that this thread is about a programme dedicated to the controversial subject of ‘curing’ type 2 diabetes (not type 1) and as you’ve pointed out, you don’t think type 1 and 2 should have the same ‘term or illness’.


I have TWO of my very good friends off all there meds for T2. Its not possible with T1. T1 is an auto immune illness & is quite a bit different. There are different rates of T2.


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## Maz2 (Jun 13, 2018)

Not really impressed with programme.


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## Amigo (Jun 13, 2018)

HOBIE said:


> I have TWO of my very good friends off all there meds for T2. Its not possible with T1. T1 is an auto immune illness & is quite a bit different. There are different rates of T2.



Yes I know Hobie. That’s very basic information.


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## HOBIE (Jun 13, 2018)

Amigo said:


> Yes I know Hobie. That’s very basic information.


So would you say they are very different T1 &T2. If its basic info ?


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## Amigo (Jun 13, 2018)

HOBIE said:


> So would you say they are very different T1 &T2. If its basic info ?



I wouldn’t even raise such rudimentary information Hobie because it doesn’t relate to the subject of this thread. As fascinating as your diabetic history is, it’s time for my bed so goodnight folks. 
Sorry this diversion took you off the real subject of this programme everyone but I enjoyed the relevant observations of it from people who actually understand type 2.


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## travellor (Jun 13, 2018)

Maz2 said:


> That is my concern Matt.  Even Type IIs cannot all reverse their diabetes and what worries me is that this programme is going to make out that everyone can do so and if you don't it is your own fault.  No-one can stay on a liquid diet or 800 calories all their life.



I really think you need to do your research before posting, if you seriously believe the Newcastle diet is 800 calories a day for life!!
It's a shame some people don't understand the diet, and it's benefits, and again, that some think 800 calories a day is actually sustainable, and a way to live.
It's not.
The beauty is you move back to a normal, healthy diet.

Please simply look on this website, or ask and I can fill you in on the actual protocol, if you really don't understand how it works?

Actually, have a read of this
]https://www.nhslothian.scot.nhs.uk/.../Documents/SJH NEWCASTLE DIET BOOKLET2012.pdf

And work it indeed does.


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## travellor (Jun 13, 2018)

For the record, very well presented, very clear which subjects have the optimum chance of reversal, very typical results, and indeed an excellent program, offering hope that diabetes can be overcome, as indeed I did, by following the Newcastle diet. 

Hopefully the first of many such programs to be shown. 
It should be the first choice of diet by most.


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## Mark Parrott (Jun 14, 2018)

travellor said:


> For the record, very well presented, very clear which subjects have the optimum chance of reversal, very typical results, and indeed an excellent program, offering hope that diabetes can be overcome, as indeed I did, by following the Newcastle diet.
> 
> Hopefully the first of many such programs to be shown.
> It should be the first choice of diet by most.


Their are plenty of people who have done this diet with great success, including members on here.  But what about the type 2's who were normal or even underweight when diagnosed?  I know it's a small percentage but it does happen & we have a few members who are in that position.  This diet wouldn't be suitable for them.


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## steven (Jun 14, 2018)

✻The Fast Fix: Diabetes✻  ..is at least  ..a primetime transmission during ✻Diabetes Week 2018✻


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## FM001 (Jun 14, 2018)

No denying those were fantastic results at the end of the programme, hope it goes on to inspire others to show what can be achieved.


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## Spireite72 (Jun 14, 2018)

Interesting program glad it works for some but it’s not the only option. Very disappointed that they didn’t mention that this diet is dangerous if you have other illnesses along side your diabetes. I know for fact I can’t do this diet with my CHD it would put me at risk of another heart attack.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 14, 2018)

HOBIE said:


> Can you imagine living with T1 for ALL of your life. Any small bit of info I can get to make things better is good.


Hobie we all have to live with our respective conditions for the rest of our lives...can you imagine how it feels to be stigmatised continually.


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## grovesy (Jun 14, 2018)

travellor said:


> I really think you need to do your research before posting, if you seriously believe the Newcastle diet is 800 calories a day for life!!
> It's a shame some people don't understand the diet, and it's benefits, and again, that some think 800 calories a day is actually sustainable, and a way to live.
> It's not.
> The beauty is you move back to a normal, healthy diet.
> ...


Diet is still in research phase and the number studied have been small and the there has been no long term follow up.


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## Maz2 (Jun 14, 2018)

I did not like this programme at all.  Diabetes is not the only problem the NHS has - underfunding, ageing population etc.  There is no one problem associated with it, although, of course, diabetes is one of them. 

I would like to know how underweight people are supposed to do this diet.  I am not diabetic at present, pre-diabetic, out of it, gone up again but if I lost two stone I would end up in hospital as would be very badly underweight.  As no-one can do that kind of diet for life it may not work in the long-term.

My friend's husband is underweight and diabetic so not sure what he is supposed to do or how it ends up being his "fault".  This is my fear with this programme that people who are diabetic are going to be blamed for it when it is not their fault. 

Good luck to people who have managed to "reverse" it but everyone cannot.

I much preferred "The Truth about Carbs" last week and Michael Moseley's programmes.


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## Maz2 (Jun 14, 2018)

Also it would be quite easy to find five people it had worked for.  I think there are at least 3 on this Forum, so not very representative when there are millions of people with it.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 14, 2018)

Maz2 said:


> I did not like this programme at all.  Diabetes is not the only problem the NHS has - underfunding, ageing population etc.  There is no one problem associated with it, although, of course, diabetes is one of them.
> 
> I would like to know how underweight people are supposed to do this diet.  I am not diabetic at present, pre-diabetic, out of it, gone up again but if I lost two stone I would end up in hospital as would be very badly underweight.  As no-one can do that kind of diet for life it may not work in the long-term.
> 
> ...


Type 2 diabetics are and have been a popular 'whipping boy' for the media...the general public & many areas of our NHS to excuse the shameful underfunding of the NHS in general Maz… we are identified as being responsible for the impending bankruptcy of the NHS...for developing diabetes...we don't all fit into the same bracket rightly said...I would like to know how anyone is expected to do this diet...it is hard & extreme...for some it could be downright dangerous...a programme of low/moderate carbs with high fats (good fats) would be a more sustainable successful project to work on...but why on earth would the media...the medical profession and the general public listen to those T2's who use this (LCHF) successfully to control their conditions...after all what would we know.


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## travellor (Jun 14, 2018)

Bubbsie said:


> Type 2 diabetics are and have been a popular 'whipping boy' for the media...the general public & many areas of our NHS to excuse the shameful underfunding of the NHS in general Maz… we are identified as being responsible for the impending bankruptcy of the NHS...for developing diabetes...we don't all fit into the same bracket rightly said...I would like to know how anyone is expected to do this diet...it is hard & extreme...for some it could be downright dangerous...a programme of low/moderate carbs with high fats (good fats) would be a more sustainable successful project to work on...but why on earth would the media...the medical profession and the general project listen to those T2's who use this (LCHF) successfully to control their conditions...after all what would we know.



Depends on your viewpoint I guess.
The only person that can tell you how you are expected to do this diet is yourself.

A high fat diet for the rest of my life to "control" diabetes wasn't really a lifestyle choice I was prepared to make, particularly as the option to live without any "control" was there.
I didn't think an 8 week diet followed by eating normally was particularly hard to actually reverse diabetes instead.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 14, 2018)

That's your viewpoint...so it's all good traveller.


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## Maz2 (Jun 14, 2018)

I am very pleased it has worked for you traveller but it is no good for those underweight or normal weight who could make themselves ill.  Also it may not continue to work in the long-term, say over 5 years or so.  I certainly hope it does for you and anyone else who has managed it.

I am sick to death of the media using diabetics as "whipping boys" as Bubbsie said.  It is one of the reasons why I dislike the media so much at the moment.  With diabetes I honestly believe they are a menace.  At one time it was smokers even though I know someone who have just finished lung cancer treatment who has never smoked in her life.  

I know lots of people who are diabetic, pre-diabetic and borderline diabetic.  Some of them do not take as much notice of what they eat as I do but I still don't see why they should be "beaten up" by the media so to speak.  I know  people who are overweight and obese who are not diabetic or pre-diabetic so it is not just a matter of weight.

I was chatting to a lady in my Tai Chi class who has cut her carbs and come off meds and got back to normal readings after 11 years on 4 Metformin a day.  She is also sick of the way the media are handling the diabetes problem too.   She is waiting for her next hba1c and I hope she continues to be successful but she said everyone cannot do it, it depends on the individual.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 14, 2018)

grovesy said:


> Diet is still in research phase and the number studied have been small and the there has been no long term follow up.


Well said grovesy…a good point.


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## Maz2 (Jun 14, 2018)

E


Bubbsie said:


> Well said grovesy…a good point.


Entirely agree grovesy.  8 weeks is one thing; you could not carry on like that for 8 years and is it going to continue in the long-term. Not sure if NHS accept this research but, if not, may be why i.e. it has not been tested in the long-term.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 14, 2018)

Maz2 said:


> I am very pleased it has worked for you traveller but it is no good for those underweight or normal weight who could make themselves ill.  Also it may not continue to work in the long-term, say over 5 years or so.  I certainly hope it does for you and anyone else who has managed it.
> 
> I am sick to death of the media using diabetics as "whipping boys" as Bubbsie said.  It is one of the reasons why I dislike the media so much at the moment.  With diabetes I honestly believe they are a menace.  At one time it was smokers even though I know someone who have just finished lung cancer treatment who has never smoked in her life.
> 
> ...


Not everyone can put their diabetes into remission Maz...however  just the slightest change to diet...lifestyle & activity (if able) can bring about some improvement...however minor...so there can be many positive benefits from hearing about T2 in the media...but those examples should have a positive element to them...point out you can start gradually it doesn't have to be an all out starvation diet...for those that can use the600/ 800 calories a day diet that's good...for those that can't there has to be an alternative...a choice...then we can exercise our judgement judicially


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## travellor (Jun 14, 2018)

Maz2 said:


> I am very pleased it has worked for you traveller but it is no good for those underweight or normal weight who could make themselves ill.  Also it may not continue to work in the long-term, say over 5 years or so.  I certainly hope it does for you and anyone else who has managed it.
> 
> I am sick to death of the media using diabetics as "whipping boys" as Bubbsie said.  It is one of the reasons why I dislike the media so much at the moment.  With diabetes I honestly believe they are a menace.  At one time it was smokers even though I know someone who have just finished lung cancer treatment who has never smoked in her life.
> 
> ...



That's the thing about diabetes, it's not the same for everyone.

If underweight was the norm for type 2, probably it wouldn't be effective to look at a weight loss diet.
As far as I know, the majority of type 2's aren't underweight though, so it's fairly meaningless to dismiss weight loss as being effective for the majority, that were overweight like I was.

And yes, if you are overweight, and not diabetic, losing weight to reverse diabetes wouldn't really be meaningful for that group either.
As to the media, they can't reverse, or not reverse my diabetes, so I didn't really factor them into my decision either.

I was just a fat diabetic, and now I'm not. 
And it was a few years or so ago, that works for me, I don't need to get hung up justifying why it may not work for others, or why it may not last.

As to lung cancer, I doubt I'd advocate smoking not being associated with lung cancer, and not giving up, simply because you know someone that didn't smoke and still had lung cancer.
But I do agree with your similarly of it to the small percentage of diabetics being underweight.

I'd give up smoking, same as I'd give up being fat.

It's a personal choice we all have to justify to ourselves at the end of the day though.


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## chaoticcar (Jun 14, 2018)

If I did this diet I would be down the plug hole in 2weeks !!!
   Carol


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## grovesy (Jun 14, 2018)

As i understand other researchers are finding evidence that Diabetes is a spectrum of conditions, that need a range of treatments. I believe there are over 50 variations recognised at the moment.
I know I personally adopted away of eating initially that I could not maintain over long term, despite good weight loss and blood levels. I have over the 15 years had to reassess and adapt what I do.


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## Maz2 (Jun 14, 2018)

I heard that grovesy.  I was amazed when I first started on this Forum that there was MODY and LADA. I had no idea there was anything other than Type I or II.  It is all so individual.


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## grovesy (Jun 14, 2018)

Maz2 said:


> I heard that grovesy.  I was amazed when I first started on this Forum that there was MODY and LADA. I had no idea there was anything other than Type I or II.  It is all so individual.


Don't forget the 3c who have pancreatic problems or surgery and steroid induced.


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## Grannylorraine (Jun 14, 2018)

I haven't watched it yet, hubby has recorded. I'll comment in full when I have watched it.


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## Grannylorraine (Jun 14, 2018)

kentish maid said:


> I am confused. They are having 800 calories a day, but they don't seem to be drinking water. Am I missing something or do the shakes really replace everything? (food and drink)


Having seen this post,  I was told in no uncertain terms by a liver consultant that when losing weight it must be slow and steady and I was not to follow any form of very low calorie diet or a meal replacement diet as these types of diet would be detrimental to my liver.


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## Gimli (Jun 14, 2018)

My nana was type 1 and sadly died of it jn 1962 things so different
My mam was type 2 as arw myself my sister and my brother.
If not genetic there are some strong coincidences 
My sister at age 60ish is under 9 stone so no way over weight


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## Northerner (Jun 14, 2018)

I think there is some misunderstanding creeping into this thread. As one of a number of methods of getting diabetes under control there is nothing wrong with it, and it may even be argued that, subject to the right assessment of likely benefit, it might be used as a 'first line' treatment that might help many, many people, as long as they received the level of support required. Sadly, we know all too well that people are often given a diagnosis and then sent away with an unhelpful leaflet or two and a packet of metformin - there are neither the resources in the health service, nor even in many cases the slightest interest in providing this support.

Weight is a very significant factor in the development of diabetes in a lot of people, where they might be fine up to a certain 'tipping point', but then that little extra weight increases insulin resistance to a degree that levels become abnormal, the pancreas tries to respond by producing extra insulin which then causes more weight gain as excess glucose is laid down as fat, particularly around the major organs where its effect is most detrimental. This tipping point may vary vastly from person to person, so a person who is only slightly overweight may develop problems - for others it may require a much greater period and amount of weight gain. We're human beings, and we are incredibly complex in the way we work and are able to deal with things.

There's an important genetic element at play as well (except perhaps in 'temporary' manifestations, such as gestational or steroid-induced diabetes - I don't know the facts). If, as we are told, 60-70% of the UK population are overweight or obese, yet only around 9% of the population has diabetes, then just being overweight doesn't inevitably lead to Type 2 diabetes, you need some other factors to be at play. I think this genetic element is what comes into play where the 20% of people with Type 2 (a not-insignificant 800,000 people) who do not fit the the stereotype become affected. Many people develop diabetes simply because they are getting older and their pancreas/body does not work as efficiently.

Because most overweight or obese people don't get Type 2 diabetes, I think this is why the dire warnings often issued are ignored - 'it would never happen to me'.

My objection is not to this approach as a treatment but to the presentation of it as a panacea when no such thing exists. As @grovesy says, Type 2 diabetes is not one condition it is more like a spectrum - I've read enough 'case histories' here over the past 10 years to know this to be true. If we are really going to turn things around then it has to start with the medical support that people receive right at diagnosis, so people are fully aware of their options and receive intensive support in achieving their aims. That would require a huge upfront cost, but save the cost many times over in reducing medication, complications, and potential loss to the economy.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 14, 2018)

Gimli said:


> My nana was type 1 and sadly died of it jn 1962 things so different
> My mam was type 2 as arw myself my sister and my brother.
> If not genetic there are some strong coincidences
> My sister at age 60ish is under 9 stone so no way over weight


Hi Gimli...it's clear there must be a genetic pre-disposition to T2 diabetes...we have a family history...several years prior to my diagnosis I was fit...well...exercised everyday...swimming...running...circuit training had lots of stamina & was very athletic...then the classic symptom arrived...tiredness...lethargy...the craving for carbs...then more carbs...the weight went on...it wasn't until I was very ill a couple of years ago my diabetes was diagnosed by accident...I have discussed this with my GP...he is convinced there is a genetic pre-disposition...that I had been diabetic for several years....my research indicates there is...weight is a factor that may mean it develops faster than usual...but it is not the cause... I'd be interested see some research that looks at why many T2's pile on the weight...the craving for carbs...our bodies need energy...so we eat the carbs...those carbs are not being used...creating energy that doesn't get to where it needs to go...it's not used...so we crave more carbs and so on & so on...rather than look for blame...it would be a good idea to educate the whole population...perhaps some form of regular screening...a more pro-active response from the powers that be.


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## Maz2 (Jun 14, 2018)

travellor said:


> diabetes, it's not the same for everyone.





grovesy said:


> Don't forget the 3c who have pancreatic problems or surgery and steroid induced.


Ah.  Did not know about that.  Wonder if my friend Diane has that one.  She has had pancreatitis on a few occasions and her blood sugars were up at about 16 recently. She has been put on insulin to get them down and been told it is Type II but I was wondering if it was late onset type I.    Maybe it is this one.  Will let docs sort that one  out.  I  know she is back under the consultant who sorted out the pancreatitis previously.


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## Maz2 (Jun 14, 2018)

Bubbsie said:


> Hi Gimli...it's clear there must be a genetic pre-disposition to T2 diabetes...we have a family history...several years prior to my diagnosis I was fit...well...exercised everyday...swimming...running...circuit training had lots of stamina & was very athletic...then the classic symptom arrived...tiredness...lethargy...the craving for carbs...then more carbs...the weight went on...it wasn't until I was very ill a couple of years ago my diabetes was diagnosed by accident...I have discussed this with my GP...he is convinced there is a genetic pre-disposition...that I had been diabetic for several years....my research indicates there is...weight is a factor that may mean it develops faster than usual...but it is not the cause... I'd be interested see some research that looks at why many T2's pile on the weight...the craving for carbs...our bodies need energy...so we eat the carbs...those carbs are not being used...creating energy that doesn't get to where it needs to go...it's not used...so we crave more carbs and so on & so on...rather than look for blame...it would be a good idea to educate the whole population...perhaps some form of regular screening...a more pro-active response from the powers that be.


In some cases it must be Bubbsie.  I am hoping I am not one of them and, if so, I hope I can still stop it from happening. 

Someone I used to work with has BP problems yet he is a rugby ref and runs marathons, very fit indeed.  He has it in the family.


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## Maz2 (Jun 14, 2018)

Northerner said:


> I think there is some misunderstanding creeping into this thread. As one of a number of methods of getting diabetes under control there is nothing wrong with it, and it may even be argued that, subject to the right assessment of likely benefit, it might be used as a 'first line' treatment that might help many, many people, as long as they received the level of support required. Sadly, we know all too well that people are often given a diagnosis and then sent away with an unhelpful leaflet or two and a packet of metformin - there are neither the resources in the health service, nor even in many cases the slightest interest in providing this support.
> 
> Weight is a very significant factor in the development of diabetes is a lot of people, where they might be fine up to a certain 'tipping point', but then that little extra weight increases insulin resistance to a degree that levels become abnormal, the pancreas tries to respond by producing extra insulin which then causes more weight gain as excess glucose is laid down as fat, particularly around the major organs where its effect is most detrimental. This tipping point may vary vastly from person to person, so a person who is only slightly overweight may develop problems - for others it may require a much greater period and amount of weight gain. We're human beings, and we are incredibly complex in the way we work and are able to deal with things.
> 
> ...


Thank you Northerner for this very balanced and well thought out response.  I think it does have to be realised that "one size does not fit all" and I think some of us, me included, have become a little vociferous in our opinions.  

When I saw my GP as I had gone from pre-diabetic to normal,back up again, he is wondering if I am becoming more insulin resistant with age (I am 65).


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## grovesy (Jun 14, 2018)

Maz2 said:


> Ah.  Did not know about that.  Wonder if my friend Diane has that one.  She has had pancreatitis on a few occasions and her blood sugars were up at about 16 recently. She has been put on insulin to get them down and been told it is Type II but I was wondering if it was late onset type I.    Maybe it is this one.  Will let docs sort that one  out.  I  know she is back under the consultant who sorted out the pancreatitis previously.


Recently reported that the pancreatic type are often not correctly diagnosed.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 14, 2018)

Maz2 said:


> In some cases it must be Bubbsie.  I am hoping I am not one of them and, if so, I hope I can still stop it from happening.
> 
> Someone I used to work with has BP problems yet he is a rugby ref and runs marathons, very fit indeed.  He has it in the family.


I did have high blood pressure Maz...I did take BP meds but I managed to stop those over 18 months ago.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 14, 2018)

Benny G said:


> 'Maintainable Transformation' is not as exciting and headline grabbing as 'Fast Fix' but is the program I would prefer to watch.
> When I was first diagnosed I was given some really good advice by the specialist team to get good control of my diabetes:
> 
> Diet
> ...


Absolutely Benny whether type 1 or type 2...whatever way we each choose to manage our diabetes it needs to be one that is sustainable long term.


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## Stitch147 (Jun 14, 2018)

Ive had a few people at work ask me if im going to give the 'fast fix' a try and my answer is no! I lost 7 stone BEFORE being diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. I have a long history of family diabetes on my fathers side, that is why my GP suspects that I am MODY (a genetic form of diabetes). I know that this is something that will affect me for the rest of my life now and its up to me to do what is right for me and something that I can maintain in the long run. I don't do low carb, as I struggle to stick to it. I am happy with what I eat and so are my GP and nurse. I am currently very low risk of complications and hoping that it stays that way for many, many years. I don't want a fast fix because it could also be a fast break too.


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## Sydney Bristowe (Jun 14, 2018)

Maz2 said:


> E
> 
> Entirely agree grovesy.  8 weeks is one thing; you could not carry on like that for 8 years and is it going to continue in the long-term. Not sure if NHS accept this research but, if not, may be why i.e. it has not been tested in the long-term.



The NHS are researching this right now. I'm participant number 25 (so its very early days for the study) on an NHS study into a similar style diet and its impact on BG control in overweight T2s that I found out about via BEAT Diabetes. I'm only 2 weeks in, but the trial lasts for a year


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## Maz2 (Jun 14, 2018)

Bubbsie said:


> I did have high blood pressure Maz...I did take BP meds but I managed to stop those over 18 months ago.


You are doing very well Bubbsie.


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## Maz2 (Jun 14, 2018)

Benny G said:


> 'Maintainable Transformation' is not as exciting and headline grabbing as 'Fast Fix' but is the program I would prefer to watch.
> When I was first diagnosed I was given some really good advice by the specialist team to get good control of my diabetes:
> 
> Diet
> ...


I entirely agree with you Benny.  It is good you had a helpful specialist team.  I don't see a diabetic nurse as I am pre-diabetic, got out of it, in it again. My friend was concerned when I lost a lot of weight through dietary change as I was not supposed to lose any as I was not overweight.  She suggested I saw our diabetic nurses but you have to have GP referral so I haven't asked.  I have learned a lot from here, mostly test, test, test, which I now do if I introduce new foods.  I have to fund it myself but that is fine with me.  

I have an iron deficiency at present so have been clutching at straws that that has falsely elevated the hba1c as I read some research and an article in the BMJ that this does happen (it is non anaemic).  GPs don't think so though so it can't be bad enough to make a difference.  As I say, clutching at straws really.


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## Maz2 (Jun 14, 2018)

Stitch147 said:


> Ive had a few people at work ask me if im going to give the 'fast fix' a try and my answer is no! I lost 7 stone BEFORE being diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. I have a long history of family diabetes on my fathers side, that is why my GP suspects that I am MODY (a genetic form of diabetes). I know that this is something that will affect me for the rest of my life now and its up to me to do what is right for me and something that I can maintain in the long run. I don't do low carb, as I struggle to stick to it. I am happy with what I eat and so are my GP and nurse. I am currently very low risk of complications and hoping that it stays that way for many, many years. I don't want a fast fix because it could also be a fast break too.


This is exactly what concerns me about programmes like this.  If you are not overweight it is no use to you and, even if you were, there is no guarantee it will work long-term.


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## Lyn68 (Jun 14, 2018)

I’m going to reserve judgement until I’ve watched the second part. So far it has annoyed me a bit. The participants clearly weren’t taking there diabetes seriously in the first place so if they had just adopted a healthier lifestyle would they have got the same results maybe over a longer time frame but more sustainable in the long term? While they were able to do this under lab conditions what would it be like in the real world? I work shifts 12hr days and nights and I wouldn’t be able to survive on 800 calories a day. What I really would have liked to have seen was some sort of debate programme after the show was aired.


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## Lilian (Jun 14, 2018)

The programme is presented as something new and experimental.    The first one I can remember many years ago was the Cambridge diet.   There was also something similar prescribed by doctors.    Lighter Life is also a packs only diet of about 800 calories a day.      Normally 800 calories a day of food would not produce sufficient vitamins and minerals but these packs have all the vitamins and minerals you would need for a day in their right proportions, so they are not deficient in nutrients, just energy.    As in a low carb/keto diet, it puts the body into dietary ketosis and therefore when the body needs energy (fat) it has it's own store cupboard, always available.   But this is definitely not new.    A friend of mine's father, who had type 2 diabetes, was in a Japanese camp during the second world war, where he had only one small bowl of rice a day.    This, in fact, kept him very well.     It was only when he was released and came to the UK and started to eat 'normally' that the diabetes returned.


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## HOBIE (Jun 14, 2018)

Bubbsie said:


> Hobie we all have to live with our respective conditions for the rest of our lives...can you imagine how it feels to be stigmatised continually.


Do you not think I have not been stigmatised ? That probably part of the trouble. When I was at school I ran as fast as any other kid. Because I did not want to be different !


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## travellor (Jun 14, 2018)

Lyn68 said:


> I’m going to reserve judgement until I’ve watched the second part. So far it has annoyed me a bit. The participants clearly weren’t taking there diabetes seriously in the first place so if they had just adopted a healthier lifestyle would they have got the same results maybe over a longer time frame but more sustainable in the long term? While they were able to do this under lab conditions what would it be like in the real world? I work shifts 12hr days and nights and I wouldn’t be able to survive on 800 calories a day. What I really would have liked to have seen was some sort of debate programme after the show was aired.



Very easy to survive. 
The main point of a calorie deficient diet is to burn body fat instead.
If you simply continue to eat as you did previously, and change nothing, you'll be in exactly the same bad place.
As to healthier lifestyle, yes, indeed you need to be healthier.
However, that  doesnt preclude the fact I've been working all day, and am typing this from a McDonalds.
Because I can now.


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## Flower (Jun 14, 2018)

I watched and found the correlation between weight gain/loss and percentage of liver fat really interesting. I assumed it was a gradual increase with a steady rise between weight gain and percentage liver fat. 

The one participant - Dan I think- lost about 9kg in weight and his liver fat decreased by about 20%. They said he was genetically disposed towards diabetes but what an insight into what just one individual is up against.


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## travellor (Jun 14, 2018)

Flower said:


> I watched and found the correlation between weight gain/loss and percentage of liver fat really interesting. I assumed it was a gradual increase with a steady rise between weight gain and percentage liver fat.
> 
> The one participant - Dan I think- lost about 9kg in weight and his liver fat decreased by about 20%. They said he was genetically disposed towards diabetes but what an insight into what just one individual is up against.



It would be interesting to see if there is a correlation between speed of weight loss, and loss of fat from the liver.
I certainly had better results will regard to BG with a rapid loss, than with a slow loss.


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## CathyB (Jun 14, 2018)

Spireite72 said:


> Interesting program glad it works for some but it’s not the only option. Very disappointed that they didn’t mention that this diet is dangerous if you have other illnesses along side your diabetes. I know for fact I can’t do this diet with my CHD it would put me at risk of another heart attack.


This was precisely my point, the approach they took clearly had good results but it’s not the only way to get them and it’s not the best way for everyone.  One of the things I love about this forum is that no one says ‘this’ is the only way, you get advice on many different ways to approach things but the choice is always our own.  No denying the positives in the programme but it was biased!


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## travellor (Jun 14, 2018)

CathyB said:


> This was precisely my point, the approach they took clearly had good results but it’s not the only way to get them and it’s not the best way for everyone.  One of the things I love about this forum is that no one says ‘this’ is the only way, you get advice on many different ways to approach things but the choice is always our own.  No denying the positives in the programme but it was biased!



I thought it laid out the "bias" very well, and to be honest, if the "bias" includes the majority of type 2 diabetics, including me, who seemed to eat my way to type 2, as a purely singular, personal observation of what I did, how reverent is it?


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## FM001 (Jun 14, 2018)

Awesome results in the final episode, so encouraging for anyone newly diagnosed as type 2 or in the prediabetes range.


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## Wendy Bonner (Jun 15, 2018)

Hi Everyone,  I watched both the programmes last night on 'Fast Fix Diabetes' lots of data and research carried out and yes they all lost weight and changed their numbers which is great and they had reveresed/cured their Diabetes!.....................and there the programme ends! i was shocked that there was conversation on how they were to maintain their great weight loss and keep the numbers down!!!!!  in 2011 before i had type 2 Diabetes I wanted to lose some weight 2 stone to be exact so I went on the lighter life shakes diet and yes I lost 3 stone, i was elated but it was a hell of a journey to get there! slowly old habits crept back in and yes i put the weight back on, tried again and failed as i could not do 600 calories for the first 4 weeks so my bad lifestyle stayed with me.

I was diagnosed type 2 last July and have been working hard at a LCD (with no extra info or help from my GP, kept being told i would be referred to the Dietician....almost 1 year on and still nothing) so i took charge myself, got back into the gym and with LCD I have reduced my HB1ac from 78 to 49 I have been on Mettformin 500mg twice a day I can maintain my blood sugar levels around 5.2 mmol/L to 6mmol/L except for gym days and i see spikes after a gym session (spin class, resistance work,  4 to 5 times a week).

I worry that the programme (although advised  do this without your doc's advice) will encourage folks to go out there and buy over the counter shakes and could possibly be only consuiming 600 calories a day which is not good at all.  it would be great to see the same folks in 6 months time and to see how they are now and have they maintained their weight loss along with HB1Ac numbers being reduced etc., 

For me Low Carb Diet and Exercise is the way to go in reducing those numbers, I have learnt the hard way in this last year....cheating does not help thinking you can have a cheat day with the crisps/wine etc., its a lifestyle change and its hard to do, support from family and friends and sites like this all help to encourage.  We are all different and out bodies all react differently what may work for one may not work for another.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 15, 2018)

HOBIE said:


> Do you not think I have not been stigmatised ? That probably part of the trouble. When I was at school I ran as fast as any other kid. Because I did not want to be different !


T2s are regularly vilified by the press...the media & the general public Hobie… it's different from being bullied at school...it's about being blamed .. .it's about being seen as the cause of our own conditions...we are seen as fair game...not offered the right treatment...left to fend for ourselves...that's why we have to rely on sensational programmes such as this to give T2 attention.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 15, 2018)

[


travellor said:


> he majority of type 2 diabetics, including me, who seemed to eat my way to type 2,


Your view traveller...not mine & many others...weight is a factor...that's all.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 15, 2018)

I'm tired of having to rely on TV entertainment (that is what Fat Fix was) to give some much needed attention to type 2 diabetes management...I'm wondering how many more programmes there will be...honest ones that give an account of the lack of good advice for T2's on controlling their blood sugars...the archaic diabetes prevention programmes...the DSN's & GPs who know little about T2 diabetes (my  GP admitted he knew little about it)...the LCHF diet & the alternative diets suitable for good control...the misconception that we've all recklessly eaten our way to diabetes...then once diagnosed we still continue to gorge ourselves on carbs...well we would if we followed the advice given by some HCPs'...fast fix was presented as an alternative way to control T2...really?...I have been using many of those measures 'introduced' in the programme for the last two years...that advice was given to me here when I first joined ...they are not new...not revolutionary...little known of course...there needs to be a consistent approach to T2 maintenance...not this sensational 'revolutionary' approach that is rolled out from time to time.


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## Mark Parrott (Jun 15, 2018)

Wendy Bonner said:


> Hi Everyone,  I watched both the programmes last night on 'Fast Fix Diabetes' lots of data and research carried out and yes they all lost weight and changed their numbers which is great and they had reveresed/cured their Diabetes!.....................and there the programme ends! i was shocked that there was conversation on how they were to maintain their great weight loss and keep the numbers down!!!!!  in 2011 before i had type 2 Diabetes I wanted to lose some weight 2 stone to be exact so I went on the lighter life shakes diet and yes I lost 3 stone, i was elated but it was a hell of a journey to get there! slowly old habits crept back in and yes i put the weight back on, tried again and failed as i could not do 600 calories for the first 4 weeks so my bad lifestyle stayed with me.
> 
> I was diagnosed type 2 last July and have been working hard at a LCD (with no extra info or help from my GP, kept being told i would be referred to the Dietician....almost 1 year on and still nothing) so i took charge myself, got back into the gym and with LCD I have reduced my HB1ac from 78 to 49 I have been on Mettformin 500mg twice a day I can maintain my blood sugar levels around 5.2 mmol/L to 6mmol/L except for gym days and i see spikes after a gym session (spin class, resistance work,  4 to 5 times a week).
> 
> ...


Well said.  Welcome to the forum.  I see you are going to fit in here very well.


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## Mark Parrott (Jun 15, 2018)

You don't need to buy shakes, which I assume are quite expensive.  Mrs P, who has had a nightmare trying to lose weight due to her condition & medication, has taken drastic measures.  She makes her own veggie drinks for breakfast & lunch consisting of spinach, kale, celery & just a few berries to sweeten them up.  These are just 50 calories each & has a normal meal in the evening.  She also goes swimming every morning now & manages a mile every day.  In the last two weeks she has lost 4kg (just over half a stone).  These drinks cost a fraction of any weight loss shakes.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 15, 2018)

Mark Parrott said:


> You don't need to buy shakes, which I assume are quite expensive.  Mrs P, who has had a nightmare trying to lose weight due to her condition & medication, has taken drastic measures.  She makes her own veggie drinks for breakfast & lunch consisting of spinach, kale, celery & just a few berries to sweeten them up.  These are just 50 calories each & has a normal meal in the evening.  She also goes swimming every morning now & manages a mile every day.  In the last two weeks she has lost 4kg (just over half a stone).  These drinks cost a fraction of any weight loss shakes.


Well done Mrs P you see there are alternatives Mark...7 pounds in a month not to be sniffed at ...great work...these drinks & shakes are promoted heavily...I have no doubt there will be people that rush out to buy them in the vain hope that's the answer to all their prayers...there is really no fast fix to weight loss...or diabetes control..or good health....even the title was too much for me...misleading & inaccurate.


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## Maz2 (Jun 15, 2018)

I have to say I agree with Bubbsie on this one.  I do wish that the media would stop using diabetics as "whipping boys" and blaming them.  I will say again what I have said before I know people who are overweight and obese whose blood sugars are fine and their cholesterol is better than mine.  I also know people who are normal/underweight who are diabetic. The programme does not address that.

I was pre-diabetic, got out of it and went back up again.  I will admit I have not tried the fasting diet which \I believe has worked for Mark Parrott who I believe has done "intermittent fasting."  I bought Michael Moseley's book but it said it was not wise to fast too much if you were underweight which I am.  
The fasting bit did interest me to be honest but I am not sure I could manage without breakfast as I feel quite weak in a morning sometimes but feel much better when I have had some breakfast.  A friend of mine retired and, because he and his wife were retired, they decided to get up later in a morning. As he was used to an early breakfast he decided to skip it and have lunch about 12 noon.  He has managed to reduce his meds from 2 or 3 a day to 1 so that has helped him.  I was more interested in what Dr Zoe was telling Rosemary and Paul than the "drinking shakes and having 800 cals a day for weeks."  

Oh well, will battle on.  Well done to everyone here who has managed to get much better control.  Am hoping never to get there; GP it is not inevitable.  I am lucky in that they don't "blame the patients" either and are very understanding.  Hopefully will get rid of this iron deficiency and can go back blood donoring.


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## Maz2 (Jun 15, 2018)

I mean hoping never to get to diabetes, not never getting to better control.  My post does not read correctly there.


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## Maz2 (Jun 15, 2018)

Forgot to say was more impressed with "The Truth About Carbs" last week and hope this has some effect on what people are being told by DSNs.


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## Maz2 (Jun 15, 2018)

Wendy Bonner said:


> Hi Everyone,  I watched both the programmes last night on 'Fast Fix Diabetes' lots of data and research carried out and yes they all lost weight and changed their numbers which is great and they had reveresed/cured their Diabetes!.....................and there the programme ends! i was shocked that there was conversation on how they were to maintain their great weight loss and keep the numbers down!!!!!  in 2011 before i had type 2 Diabetes I wanted to lose some weight 2 stone to be exact so I went on the lighter life shakes diet and yes I lost 3 stone, i was elated but it was a hell of a journey to get there! slowly old habits crept back in and yes i put the weight back on, tried again and failed as i could not do 600 calories for the first 4 weeks so my bad lifestyle stayed with me.
> 
> I was diagnosed type 2 last July and have been working hard at a LCD (with no extra info or help from my GP, kept being told i would be referred to the Dietician....almost 1 year on and still nothing) so i took charge myself, got back into the gym and with LCD I have reduced my HB1ac from 78 to 49 I have been on Mettformin 500mg twice a day I can maintain my blood sugar levels around 5.2 mmol/L to 6mmol/L except for gym days and i see spikes after a gym session (spin class, resistance work,  4 to 5 times a week).
> 
> ...


Excellent post Wendy.  Your last sentence sums it up.  I cannot see the "Fast Fix" being any good to my friend's diabetic husband who is 80 and underweight, or my 87 year old neighbour.  I have known lots of people who have gone on diets and "fast fixes" and then put the weight back on.  Your approach makes much more sense because, as you rightly say, it is a lifestyle change not just for a few weeks.  It is impossible to live on 800 cals for life, unless you want to make yourself ill.


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## Wendy Bonner (Jun 15, 2018)

Mark Parrott said:


> You don't need to buy shakes, which I assume are quite expensive.  Mrs P, who has had a nightmare trying to lose weight due to her condition & medication, has taken drastic measures.  She makes her own veggie drinks for breakfast & lunch consisting of spinach, kale, celery & just a few berries to sweeten them up.  These are just 50 calories each & has a normal meal in the evening.  She also goes swimming every morning now & manages a mile every day.  In the last two weeks she has lost 4kg (just over half a stone).  These drinks cost a fraction of any weight loss shakes.


Well Done Mrs P that is awesome and there should be TV programmes about those who are doing this by themselves in a healthy way without starvation! i know if i miss one of my 3 meals i start to feel really bad and shakey.......for me the other misconception is one must snack all the time too...for me me this causes 'spikes' for others it may not...........keep going Mrs P


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## Bubbsie (Jun 15, 2018)

Wendy Bonner said:


> Well Done Mrs P that is awesome and there should be TV programmes about those who are doing this by themselves in a healthy way without starvation! i know if i miss one of my 3 meals i start to feel really bad and shakey.......for me the other misconception is one must snack all the time too...for me me this causes 'spikes' for others it may not...........keep going Mrs P


Wendy it isn't obvious from Marks post that Mrs P isn't diabetic...so the weight loss is of benefit to her (would be to most|) in general but not as a means of controlling diabetes.


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## Wendy Bonner (Jun 15, 2018)

Maz2 said:


> Excellent post Wendy.  Your last sentence sums it up.  I cannot see the "Fast Fix" being any good to my friend's diabetic husband who is 80 and underweight, or my 87 year old neighbour.  I have known lots of people who have gone on diets and "fast fixes" and then put the weight back on.  Your approach makes much more sense because, as you rightly say, it is a lifestyle change not just for a few weeks.  It is impossible to live on 800 cals for life, unless you want to make yourself ill.





Maz2 said:


> Forgot to say was more impressed with "The Truth About Carbs" last week and hope this has some effect on what people are being told by DSNs.


Thanks Mazz2, you are so right 'Truth about Carbs' was AWESOME and more truthfull info on there than i even had from my first meeting or any other meeting with the Diabetic Nurse!


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## Mark Parrott (Jun 15, 2018)

Bubbsie said:


> Wendy it isn't obvious from Marks post that Mrs P isn't diabetic...so the weight loss is of benefit to her (would be to most|) in general but not as a means of controlling diabetes.


Yes, I didn't mention that.  Type 1 does run in her family, not type 2, and she is suffering from auto-immune conditions, so we can't rule out that type 1 is a possibility at some point.  She also takes steroids (prescribed) which can lead to type 2.  If people saw us both together & we told them that one of us had type 2 diabetes, they would think it's my wife, not me, due to her weight.  And this is the problem with the trash media.


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## HOBIE (Jun 15, 2018)

If you went to the shops in the war & if you went to the shops now. BIG difference in Carbs & Sugar !  When I was a kid I seriously dreamt of living till I was 50. I am NOT joking !    T1 from being 3 now 55 in a couple of weeks. Day off today & going to Newcastle Uni.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 15, 2018)

Mark Parrott said:


> Yes, I didn't mention that.  Type 1 does run in her family, not type 2, and she is suffering from auto-immune conditions, so we can't rule out that type 1 is a possibility at some point.  She also takes steroids (prescribed) which can lead to type 2.  If people saw us both together & we told them that one of us had type 2 diabetes, they would think it's my wife, not me, due to her weight.  And this is the problem with the trash media.


Good point Mark.


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## Mark Parrott (Jun 15, 2018)

Maz2 said:


> I have to say I agree with Bubbsie on this one.  I do wish that the media would stop using diabetics as "whipping boys" and blaming them.  I will say again what I have said before I know people who are overweight and obese whose blood sugars are fine and their cholesterol is better than mine.  I also know people who are normal/underweight who are diabetic. The programme does not address that.
> 
> I was pre-diabetic, got out of it and went back up again.  I will admit I have not tried the fasting diet which \I believe has worked for Mark Parrott who I believe has done "intermittent fasting."  I bought Michael Moseley's book but it said it was not wise to fast too much if you were underweight which I am.
> The fasting bit did interest me to be honest but I am not sure I could manage without breakfast as I feel quite weak in a morning sometimes but feel much better when I have had some breakfast.  A friend of mine retired and, because he and his wife were retired, they decided to get up later in a morning. As he was used to an early breakfast he decided to skip it and have lunch about 12 noon.  He has managed to reduce his meds from 2 or 3 a day to 1 so that has helped him.  I was more interested in what Dr Zoe was telling Rosemary and Paul than the "drinking shakes and having 800 cals a day for weeks."
> ...



I only tried intermittent fasting for 3 days & gave up.  Didn't really give it chance to work.  Got too hungry.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 15, 2018)

Mark Parrott said:


> I only tried intermittent fasting for 3 days & gave up.  Didn't really give it chance to work.  Got too hungry.


Made me laugh Mark.


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## HOBIE (Jun 15, 2018)

Mark Parrott said:


> I only tried intermittent fasting for 3 days & gave up.  Didn't really give it chance to work.  Got too hungry.


Well done for giving it a go Mark


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## Maz2 (Jun 15, 2018)

At least you tried Mark.  Well done for giving it a go.  I am sorry to hear about your wife.  Good luck to her with what she is doing.  One of my former colleagues at work tried these meal replacements a couple of times and did not stick it out.  As far as I am aware she has still not lost any weight as she finds it terribly difficult cutting down.  she is pre-diabetic too now.  

She needs to find out what is right for her.


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## Maz2 (Jun 15, 2018)

Mark Parrott said:


> Yes, I didn't mention that.  Type 1 does run in her family, not type 2, and she is suffering from auto-immune conditions, so we can't rule out that type 1 is a possibility at some point.  She also takes steroids (prescribed) which can lead to type 2.  If people saw us both together & we told them that one of us had type 2 diabetes, they would think it's my wife, not me, due to her weight.  And this is the problem with the trash media.


Your last sentence sums up exactly what I feel Mark.  I recall being on a cruise a couple of years ago and one of the waiters told me his wife was a Type I and had cut out sugar completely.  Her doctor had told her it was necessary to have some sugar and she should not cut it out completely.  She must have been quite young as he was only in his 20s and I felt very sorry for her, especially with all the media blaming.


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## Mark Parrott (Jun 15, 2018)

HOBIE said:


> Well done for giving it a go Mark


I'm a strong believer in 'if at first you don't succeed, give up'.


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## Maz2 (Jun 15, 2018)

Mark Parrott said:


> I'm a strong believer in 'if at first you don't succeed, give up'.


That made me laugh Mark.


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## eggyg (Jun 15, 2018)

I watched it with gritted teeth. It was great they all lost weight and some are now in the non diabetic range but where was the part where they educated them on what to do next? What really annoyed me was the fact the NHS “ grumble” that Type 2 Diabetes cost 10% of the total budget, a staggering 150 million pound a day apparently but doesn’t help those who are diagnosed. Reading this forum over the years and my own experience, you are told “ oh you are diabetic, loose weight, take these pills and we will see you next year”. The DESMOND course is patronising at best and still adheres to the old advise of filling your plate mostly with carbs. The participants on the show didn’t really know anything about healthy eating and seemed shocked at their HbA1c. It may have been for the cameras but one or two of them seemed upset. I think the GP or DSN should prescribe first and foremost, membership to this forum. We are the experts not them!


----------



## Bubbsie (Jun 15, 2018)

eggyg said:


> I watched it with gritted teeth. It was great they all lost weight and some are now in the non diabetic range but where was the part where they educated them on what to do next? What really annoyed me was the fact the NHS “ grumble” that Type 2 Diabetes cost 10% of the total budget, a staggering 150 million pound a day apparently but doesn’t help those who are diagnosed. Reading this forum over the years and my own experience, you are told “ oh you are diabetic, loose weight, take these pills and we will see you next year”. The DESMOND course is patronising at best and still adheres to the old advise of filling your plate mostly with carbs. The participants on the show didn’t really know anything about healthy eating and seemed shocked at their HbA1c. It may have been for the cameras but one or two of them seemed upset. I think the GP or DSN should prescribe first and foremost, membership to this forum. We are the experts not them!


Finally the NHS are to recommend the low carb approach with diet...
www.diabetes.co.uk/news/2018/jun/low-carb-program-achieves-qismet-approval-to-be-recommended-by-the-nhs-94355134.html
I wonder how long this will take to filter through to our HCP's?


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## travellor (Jun 15, 2018)

Maz2 said:


> Excellent post Wendy.  Your last sentence sums it up.  I cannot see the "Fast Fix" being any good to my friend's diabetic husband who is 80 and underweight, or my 87 year old neighbour.  I have known lots of people who have gone on diets and "fast fixes" and then put the weight back on.  Your approach makes much more sense because, as you rightly say, it is a lifestyle change not just for a few weeks.  It is impossible to live on 800 cals for life, unless you want to make yourself ill.



Indeed it is impossible to live on 800 calories a day for life.

The eight weeks you actually live on 800 calories a day is worth doing though.
Personally, I had a McMuffin and coffee this morning.
Actually because I had to leave too early to grab breakfast, and wasn't going to get anything until later on this afternoon.
But still, very tasty.

It's a shame how the Newcastle Diet seems to be getting slated by those on here who haven't seem to even read up on the simple basics of what is a very effective diet for some diabetics.
And complain GP's seem to be ignorant of the new approaches to type 2.


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## travellor (Jun 15, 2018)

Bubbsie said:


> Finally the NHS are to recommend the low carb approach with diet...
> www.diabetes.co.uk/news/2018/jun/low-carb-program-achieves-qismet-approval-to-be-recommended-by-the-nhs-94355134.html
> I wonder how long this will take to filter through to our HCP's?



Is the subscription fee paid by the NHS now?
Otherwise £29.99 is quite a chunk to pay for something that is free on here.

And to be honest, I would have expected greater results than they are claiming to see, 

"On average, people who complete the program reduce their HbA1c levels by 13 mmol/mol (1.2%) and lose seven per cent of their body weight"

I would still be in the diabetic range if I had reduced my original hba1c by that little, and still be morbidly obese.
And £29.99 worse off!


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## Matt Cycle (Jun 15, 2018)

.co.uk is not a charity it's a commercial entity in the business to make profit.  I dislike the site but fair play to Arjun Panesar he's done very well for himself.


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## Mark T (Jun 15, 2018)

One issue I always have with these things is that people say "Why can't you do the 800 Cal diet to get rid of your diabetes?".  Well, it won't work - and I don't need to loose any weight!

One of my colleagues mentioned this to me this morning (I don't watch much TV) and said that he felt something was missing from the program and it wasn't the whole story.  From reading this thread I can definitely see that something was missing!

I think there has to be some acceptance (on here too) that everybodies diabeties is different and there are a varienty of approaches, not all of which will work for any given person.

Personally I wouldn't do Newcastle because I want to do something where I make a permanent change and are willing to wait for the long term.  But other's will want to do it differently and that's fine.


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## Mark Parrott (Jun 15, 2018)

travellor said:


> Indeed it is impossible to live on 800 calories a day for life.
> 
> The eight weeks you actually live on 800 calories a day is worth doing though.
> Personally, I had a McMuffin and coffee this morning.
> ...


I don't people on her have slated the Newcastle diet, just commented that some wouldn't be able to do it.  I never did it, but I wasn't that familiar with the diet when I was diagnosed.  I am now in non diabetic range & no longer overweight without going on the Newcastle diet (or any other 800 calorie diet).  I would have no problem giving it a go if I needed too though, but I would make my own shakes.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 15, 2018)

travellor said:


> Indeed it is impossible to live on 800 calories a day for life.
> 
> The eight weeks you actually live on 800 calories a day is worth doing though.
> Personally, I had a McMuffin and coffee this morning.
> ...


Its a fact Travellor many GP's & DSN's  are ignorant of alternative approaches to diet when it come to type 2...apart from the eat well plate ...I'll start with mine...he openly admits he know little abput T2 or how to manage it...then I'll add the two facilitators on the hopeless DESMOND course I went on...I'm sure others here could add to that.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 15, 2018)

Matt Cycle said:


> .co.uk is not a charity it's a commercial entity in the business to make profit.  I dislike the site but fair play to Arjun Panesar he's done very well for himself.


It is a commercial site Matt...but if it gets the job done...there is nothing wrong with that.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 15, 2018)

travellor said:


> Is the subscription fee paid by the NHS now?
> Otherwise £29.99 is quite a chunk to pay for something that is free on here.
> 
> And to be honest, I would have expected greater results than they are claiming to see,
> ...


That remains to be seen however when you compare it to the cost of years medication & archaic dietary advice from our HCP's...the fee palls into insignificance...13mmols is a sizable drop...certainly enough to remove many diabetics from diabetic range...you are individualising the course...based on your  own circumstances...you clearly don't need this...others may...let them make their own minds up.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 15, 2018)

Mark T said:


> One issue I always have with these things is that people say "Why can't you do the 800 Cal diet to get rid of your diabetes?".  Well, it won't work - and I don't need to loose any weight!
> 
> One of my colleagues mentioned this to me this morning (I don't watch much TV) and said that he felt something was missing from the program and it wasn't the whole story.  From reading this thread I can definitely see that something was missing!
> 
> ...


Many people use this as a start...or if they reach a plateau to give their management a bit of a boost...no one is suggesting it's a permanent approach to good effective diabetes management.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 15, 2018)

eggyg said:


> I watched it with gritted teeth. It was great they all lost weight and some are now in the non diabetic range but where was the part where they educated them on what to do next? What really annoyed me was the fact the NHS “ grumble” that Type 2 Diabetes cost 10% of the total budget, a staggering 150 million pound a day apparently but doesn’t help those who are diagnosed. Reading this forum over the years and my own experience, you are told “ oh you are diabetic, loose weight, take these pills and we will see you next year”. The DESMOND course is patronising at best and still adheres to the old advise of filling your plate mostly with carbs. The participants on the show didn’t really know anything about healthy eating and seemed shocked at their HbA1c. It may have been for the cameras but one or two of them seemed upset. I think the GP or DSN should prescribe first and foremost, membership to this forum. We are the experts not them!


If it costs 10% of the NHS budget...why on earth don't they invest some of that 10% in forming some cohesive advice or decent educational programmes for T2...surely that would be a great saving if they made a real investment instead of blaming & shaming T2's.


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## Martin Canty (Jun 15, 2018)

Wendy Bonner said:


> , its a lifestyle change and its hard to do, support from family and friends and sites like this all help to encourage. We are all different and out bodies all react differently what may work for one may not work for another.


You so totally get it, Wendy, that's part of why I prefer the term "Well Controlled" over "cured" or "reversed", it may be semantics but to think of myself as "well controlled" reminds me to keep on living this lifestyle I don't want to face the consequences of uncontrolled D. I did let control slip at the beginning of the year & was rewarded with an A1c back in the pre-D range (5.9)


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## Martin Canty (Jun 15, 2018)

Mark Parrott said:


> She makes her own veggie drinks for breakfast & lunch consisting of spinach, kale, celery


I take it that @Bubbsie won't be coming over for lunch any time soon


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## Bubbsie (Jun 15, 2018)

Martin Canty said:


> I take it that @Bubbsie won't be coming over for lunch any time soon


No Martin not at his house...Kale smoothies ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww … I'm waiting for an invite to Carb Thursday.


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## travellor (Jun 15, 2018)

Bubbsie said:


> That remains to be seen however when you compare it to the cost of years medication & archaic dietary advice from our HCP's...the fee palls into insignificance...13mmols is a sizable drop...certainly enough to remove many diabetics from diabetic range...you are individualising the course...based on your  own circumstances...you clearly don't need this...others may...let them make their own minds up.



Indeed, everyone should make up their own mind, just as everyone should look at where an average reduction of 13 mmols in hba1c will put them.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 15, 2018)

travellor said:


> Indeed, everyone should make up their own mind, just as everyone should look at where an average reduction of 13 mmols in hba1c will put them.


I think we can live with that traveller...the chance to make our own minds up...most gracious of you to accept that.


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## Amigo (Jun 15, 2018)

travellor said:


> Indeed, everyone should make up their own mind, just as everyone should look at where an average reduction of 13 mmols in hba1c will put them.



I managed that without Metformin or the Newcastle diet (well 12 mmols to be exact).


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## Mark Parrott (Jun 15, 2018)

Bubbsie said:


> No Martin not at his house...Kale smoothies ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww … I'm waiting for an invite to Carb Thursday.


I did try one & thought it was absolutely revolting (and I like veg).  But she likes veg even more.


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## Mark Parrott (Jun 15, 2018)

Amigo said:


> I managed that without Metformin or the Newcastle diet (well 12 mmols to be exact).


I dropped by 40mmol after 3 months without a shake in sight.


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## Maz2 (Jun 15, 2018)

eggyg said:


> I watched it with gritted teeth. It was great they all lost weight and some are now in the non diabetic range but where was the part where they educated them on what to do next? What really annoyed me was the fact the NHS “ grumble” that Type 2 Diabetes cost 10% of the total budget, a staggering 150 million pound a day apparently but doesn’t help those who are diagnosed. Reading this forum over the years and my own experience, you are told “ oh you are diabetic, loose weight, take these pills and we will see you next year”. The DESMOND course is patronising at best and still adheres to the old advise of filling your plate mostly with carbs. The participants on the show didn’t really know anything about healthy eating and seemed shocked at their HbA1c. It may have been for the cameras but one or two of them seemed upset. I think the GP or DSN should prescribe first and foremost, membership to this forum. We are the experts not them!


Exactly.  I went on a diabetes prevention programme and when I mentioned I was losing weight \I was told to "up the carbs."  Hm.  Thought that caused the probs in the first place. When I told my Optometrist when I went for my usual eye check he said "oh are they teaching you to become diabetic then".  He is a HFLC lover (non diabetic).  I very much agree that it is no use the NHS moaning about how much diabetes is costing when they are giving out advice that may in some cases be making things worse.  Also there are other things wrong with the NHS too - too many Managers, an ageing population who are going to use it more because they are older through no fault of their own, alcoholism, smoking.


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## Carolg (Jun 15, 2018)

chaoticcar said:


> If I did this diet I would be down the plug hole in 2weeks !!!
> Carol


I would have to have big boat shoes to stop me falling down drains


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## Maz2 (Jun 15, 2018)

Martin Canty said:


> You so totally get it, Wendy, that's part of why I prefer the term "Well Controlled" over "cured" or "reversed", it may be semantics but to think of myself as "well controlled" reminds me to keep on living this lifestyle I don't want to face the consequences of uncontrolled D. I did let control slip at the beginning of the year & was rewarded with an A1c back in the pre-D range (5.9)


Martin - are you in the US?  Cannot recall.  \I think the levels are lower over there.  I don't think in the UK pre-diabetes is until you are 6.1% but may have to stand corrected on this one.


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## Maz2 (Jun 15, 2018)

Bubbsie said:


> Finally the NHS are to recommend the low carb approach with diet...
> www.diabetes.co.uk/news/2018/jun/low-carb-program-achieves-qismet-approval-to-be-recommended-by-the-nhs-94355134.html
> I wonder how long this will take to filter through to our HCP's?


Hallelujah Bubbsie. At last!!


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## Maz2 (Jun 15, 2018)

I am not a member of org.uk but would not mind paying the fee.  It is a charitable organisation with no funding from Government so needs to get the money from somewhere.  Not sure whether I would be eligible as pre-diabetic, not diabetic.


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## Martin Canty (Jun 15, 2018)

Maz2 said:


> Martin - are you in the US?


Correct Maz, US pre-D levels are 5.7%(39mmol) to 6.5%(48).... In the UK it's 6.0(42)-6.5(48) (from the 'Red' site)

Expat living in California


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## Bubbsie (Jun 15, 2018)

Maz2 said:


> I am not a member of org.uk but would not mind paying the fee.  It is a charitable organisation with no funding from Government so needs to get the money from somewhere.  Not sure whether I would be eligible as pre-diabetic, not diabetic.


This is another forum


Maz2 said:


> Hallelujah Bubbsie. At last!!


I wouldn't get too excited Maz...lord know how long it may take to 'filter' through...if at all...but it's a start I suppose.


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## Carolg (Jun 15, 2018)

I watched the program, and must admit I was a bit grumped. Was it my imagination or was the focus on calories with little if any mention of carbs, tthe participants all seemed to loaf about like the store dogs, and do nothing but weild their blenders and bowls and spoons. I know you couldn’t see them all the time and understood that exercise would have to wait a bit due to getting used to reduced calories. But I will say, I didn’t have anything to grump about the diet, but how many people in this age of austerity and poverty could self fund.  
Also, I was getting really mad about all the comments on how much type 2 and obesity is costing nhs. How to make us feel bad. Yes I was overweight, am costing nhs for meds and follow up. We all probably paid into the nhs over our years, and are not free loaders. I am not saying it’s right to say it, but other “conditions” which are perhaps self perpetuating also cost a lot. Perhaps education from younger age and manufacturing should also be looked at. 

If this causes offence moderators, please delete

Rant over, I am going to make my tea and have a g and low calorie tonic


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## Bubbsie (Jun 15, 2018)

QUOTE="Carolg, post: 833571, member: 14628"]I watched the program, and must admit I was a bit grumped. Was it my imagination or was the focus on calories with little if any mention of carbs, tthe participants all seemed to loaf about like the store dogs, and do nothing but weild their blenders and bowls and spoons. I know you couldn’t see them all the time and understood that exercise would have to wait a bit due to getting used to reduced calories. But I will say, I didn’t have anything to grump about the diet, but how many people in this age of austerity and poverty could self fund. 
Also, I was getting really mad about all the comments on how much type 2 and obesity is costing nhs. How to make us feel bad. Yes I was overweight, am costing nhs for meds and follow up. We all probably paid into the nhs over our years, and are not free loaders. I am not saying it’s right to say it, but other “conditions” which are perhaps self perpetuating also cost a lot. Perhaps education from younger age and manufacturing should also be looked at.

If this causes offence moderators, please delete

Rant over, I am going to make my tea and have a g and low calorie tonic[/QUOTE]
Yes what a good idea Carol...a G & T...I think that should be available on prescription


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## Carolg (Jun 15, 2018)

More drink building up in my cupboard than I will ever get through. Taking it all on holidays and we will work slowly (or quickly ) through it


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## Maz2 (Jun 15, 2018)

It is not offensive Carole it is true. I watched the programme. I am pre-diabetic, got out of it and now back in it.  I was very irritated at them going on about the cost to the NHS.  What about drinking, smoking, too many manages, underfunding, ageing population, drug addiction etc.  They dwelt on weight but I know people who are obese who are not diabetic or pre and underweight (me)or normal weight and diabetic or pre so it is not just down to weight.  

They only used 5 people.  I can name 4 on here who have got their blood sugars into acceptable levels and well done to them but 5 people is hardly a "scientific study".  Still gives the programme makers something to stick on the TV I suppose.


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## travellor (Jun 15, 2018)

Maz2 said:


> It is not offensive Carole it is true. I watched the programme. I am pre-diabetic, got out of it and now back in it.  I was very irritated at them going on about the cost to the NHS.  What about drinking, smoking, too many manages, underfunding, ageing population, drug addiction etc.  They dwelt on weight but I know people who are obese who are not diabetic or pre and underweight (me)or normal weight and diabetic or pre so it is not just down to weight.
> 
> They only used 5 people.  I can name 4 on here who have got their blood sugars into acceptable levels and well done to them but 5 people is hardly a "scientific study".  Still gives the programme makers something to stick on the TV I suppose.



Probably quite good for the 5 as well to be honest.


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## Teadance (Jun 15, 2018)

Does anyone know if it’s the speed of weight loss on an 800 calorie, liquid food diet, that reduces liver and pancreatic fat, or whether any weight reducing diet has the same effect but just takes longer?


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## Carolg (Jun 16, 2018)

Teadance said:


> Does anyone know if it’s the speed of weight loss on an 800 calorie, liquid food diet, that reduces liver and pancreatic fat, or whether any weight reducing diet has the same effect but just takes longer?


No idea, but it would be good to know.


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## Grannylorraine (Jun 16, 2018)

Teadance said:


> Does anyone know if it’s the speed of weight loss on an 800 calorie, liquid food diet, that reduces liver and pancreatic fat, or whether any weight reducing diet has the same effect but just takes longer?


From my understanding from my liver consultant. Losing weight by whatever means helps with liver fat.  Mine went down significantly following slimming world, but I then became diabetic probably from eating that carb rich diet.  I asked my GP yesterday about this fast fix for diabetes, after she had laughed and said there is no fast fix, she was quite happy for me to follow a low carb eating plan which is what I am doing, but not to do a 800 calorie or meal replacement diet, this also backs up what the liver consultant told me about not losing weight rapidly using very low calorie diets or meal replacements.  

But as we all know different things work for different people.  I have a friend who got herself out of diabetic range following slimming world to the letter, she lost about 6 stone.


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## travellor (Jun 16, 2018)

Teadance said:


> Does anyone know if it’s the speed of weight loss on an 800 calorie, liquid food diet, that reduces liver and pancreatic fat, or whether any weight reducing diet has the same effect but just takes longer?



I did the 800 calorie diet as it had been  tested, and seemed to actually reverse my diabetes. I lost weight slowly beforehand, which didn't  show the same improvement. 
I think the acid test is can those who lost weight  slowly eat a balanced diet now, as I can, or do carbs still peak their BG.
I suspect we could get bogged down in what a balanced diet is, how it doesnt work for everyone, how lc is better, how  diabetes may still come back, but, at the end of the day, it was the 800 calorie diet that reversed, not controlled, my diabetes.
But that's just me.
I had one chance, I made my choice.


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## Carolg (Jun 16, 2018)

travellor said:


> I did the 800 calorie diet as it had been  tested, and seemed to actually reverse my diabetes. I lost weight slowly beforehand, which didn't  show the same improvement.
> I think the acid test is can those who lost weight  slowly eat a balanced diet now, as I can, or do carbs still peak their BG.
> I suspect we could get bogged down in what a balanced diet is, how it doesnt work for everyone, how lc is better, how  diabetes may still come back, but, at the end of the day, it was the 800 calorie diet that reversed, not controlled, my diabetes.
> But that's just me.
> I had one chance, I made my choice.



Whatever worked for you traveller was good for you. I have been trying  to do the “do not eat c&£p” diet.i have lost  just over 5 stone since before diagnosis in Nov 2015 and weight now stable, but not to lose any more. Trying hard to get BG down  but reliant on 3 type of meds, but look at beige food or sugar and do spike. What I am doing is mainly working but that compliance thing is sometimes a trial. Get bloods done in August to see if I have sustained my compliance, but maybe need injectables. If so, it is so


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## Carolg (Jun 16, 2018)

Grannylorraine said:


> From my understanding from my liver consultant. Losing weight by whatever means helps with liver fat.  Mine went down significantly following slimming world, but I then became diabetic probably from eating that carb rich diet.  I asked my GP yesterday about this fast fix for diabetes, after she had laughed and said there is no fast fix, she was quite happy for me to follow a low carb eating plan which is what I am doing, but not to do a 800 calorie or meal replacement diet, this also backs up what the liver consultant told me about not losing weight rapidly using very low calorie diets or meal replacements.
> 
> But as we all know different things work for different people.  I have a friend who got herself out of diabetic range following slimming world to the letter, she lost about 6 stone.


Well said grannylorraine


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## SB2015 (Jun 16, 2018)

Matt Cycle said:


> I wish they'd get the title correct. This diet will not fix my type of diabetes.  I don't want people at work or anywhere coming up and saying ooh I saw this programme and you can fix it by doing this.


But you know that they will.  I regularly get advice on how to cure my diabetes.  
Not from close friends.  I have to remind myself to smile and remember that they do mean well.


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## travellor (Jun 16, 2018)

Carolg said:


> Whatever worked for you traveller was good for you. I have been trying  to do the “do not eat c&£p” diet.i have lost  just over 5 stone since before diagnosis in Nov 2015 and weight now stable, but not to lose any more. Trying hard to get BG down  but reliant on 3 type of meds, but look at beige food or sugar and do spike. What I am doing is mainly working but that compliance thing is sometimes a trial. Get bloods done in August to see if I have sustained my compliance, but maybe need injectables. If so, it is so


Yes, that's why  I chose the rapid weight loss,  based on press about its effects on BG, as well as the weight loss


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## Alister (Jun 18, 2018)

interesting programme but missed or skipped a lot that would not be obvious to a layman (nondiabetic) and seemed to only cover part of the problem, fatty liver. with barely a mention of the role of insulin or insulin resistance.

Reversing diabetes does not mean you are cured, just now under control without medication.
It also has not followed up on what happens to the guinepigs once they resume a "normal" diet. perhaps a follow up program in 6 - 12 months is in order.

at least it was not as sensationalist I a feared it might be.


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## travellor (Jun 18, 2018)

Alister said:


> interesting programme but missed or skipped a lot that would not be obvious to a layman (nondiabetic) and seemed to only cover part of the problem, fatty liver. with barely a mention of the role of insulin or insulin resistance.
> 
> Reversing diabetes does not mean you are cured, just now under control without medication.
> It also has not followed up on what happens to the guinepigs once they resume a "normal" diet. perhaps a follow up program in 6 - 12 months is in order.
> ...



I seriously can't think why "reversed" means not reversed?
I'm not "under control", as I don't need to control it.

Me, I am reversed, and very proud of my success to be honest.


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## Alister (Jun 18, 2018)

glad to hear it, but as i understand it you still need to take care to eat healthily to ensure the diabetes does not return, which is why i personally don't like the term cured, reversed or remission is ok, my point was these programs don't make the meanings clear


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## Martin Canty (Jun 18, 2018)

Alister said:


> but as i understand it you still need to take care to eat healthily to ensure the diabetes does not return


Well, it's still there, but it's the level of control we have over it..... that's why I personally prefer the term "In Control" rather than "reversed" & I won't even go there with "cured"....



Alister said:


> It also has not followed up on what happens to the guinepigs once they resume a "normal" diet. perhaps a follow up program in 6 - 12 months is in order.


Seeing some follow-up on other sensational weight loss programs, I suspect the follow-up will not be good unless the participants embrace the lifestyle changes required.


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## travellor (Jun 18, 2018)

Martin Canty said:


> Well, it's still there, but it's the level of control we have over it..... that's why I personally prefer the term "In Control" rather than "reversed" & I won't even go there with "cured"....
> 
> 
> Seeing some follow-up on other sensational weight loss programs, I suspect the follow-up will not be good unless the participants embrace the lifestyle changes required.



Bit wrong then. sorry to be the bearer of good news, on an otherwise disappointing scenario?


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## Teadance (Jun 18, 2018)

I was always told if you manage to bring your levels down to the non-diabetic range your diabetes is considered to be ‘well controlled’. Go back to eating the way you did before and it will come back. Could be wrong, but that’s what I understood.


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## Martin Canty (Jun 18, 2018)

Teadance said:


> I was always told if you manage to bring your levels down to the non-diabetic range your diabetes is considered to be ‘well controlled’. Go back to eating the way you did before and it will come back. Could be wrong, but that’s what I understood.


Very true..... last winter my A1c went from being in the normal range to Pre-D because I relaxed control.... Back on Tight Control ready for another A1c at the end of the month & I'm hoping for numbers in the mid-low 5% range, already showing how well my control is when my FBG is often sub 5.0 these days (4.2 this morning) from typically being in the high 5's & 6's through last winter


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## travellor (Jun 18, 2018)

Teadance said:


> I was always told if you manage to bring your levels down to the non-diabetic range your diabetes is considered to be ‘well controlled’. Go back to eating the way you did before and it will come back. Could be wrong, but that’s what I understood.



I think it depends on your "control"
Yes, if you avoid carbs, obviously it's merely a control.
Not a fix as such, as if you eat carbs again, you bounce like a space hopper on steroids.

But if you really fix it, by something like the Newcastle diet, that does have a track record for that, you can eat normally, without spiking again.
Make your choice, it's really not a hard decision.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 18, 2018)

travellor said:


> I think it depends on your "control"
> Yes, if you avoid carbs, obviously it's merely a control.
> Not a fix as such, as if you eat carbs again, you bounce like a space hopper on steroids.
> 
> ...


That sounds very much like a  sales pitch traveller?


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## kentish maid (Jun 18, 2018)

travellor said:


> I think it depends on your "control"
> Yes, if you avoid carbs, obviously it's merely a control.
> Not a fix as such, as if you eat carbs again, you bounce like a space hopper on steroids.
> 
> ...


Hi @travellor, I've not been a member for very long, just wondered how long ago you did the Newcastle diet, and how long you have been reversed? I'm waiting on an HbA1c result later this week, and depending on the result am having to consider what my options are if the result is not what I hope for. I am currently controlling my diabetes by diet and exercise


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## Northerner (Jun 18, 2018)

For me, the bottom line is that if you have been diagnosed with diabetes then you have shown you have the genetic propensity to develop it (as discussed earlier, maybe 5-8% of the population have this, most people don't). You can bring it under control and quite possibly remain well-controlled for the remainder of your life, but it doesn't alter your genes so you will remain at risk and therefore need to remain vigilant.


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## travellor (Jun 18, 2018)

Bubbsie said:


> That sounds very much like a  sales pitch traveller?



It depends.
Like snake oil. 
Sell it once.
Like the Newcastle diet.
Or sell it forever, like low carb?

I know what my choice is.


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## travellor (Jun 18, 2018)

kentish maid said:


> Hi @travellor, I've not been a member for very long, just wondered how long ago you did the Newcastle diet, and how long you have been reversed? I'm waiting on an HbA1c result later this week, and depending on the result am having to consider what my options are if the result is not what I hope for. I am currently controlling my diabetes by diet and exercise




Around 5 years now.
A normal diet since, and normal hba1c ever since.
Personally, I'd say go for it, if you don't reverse, low carb is a fall back position.


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## kentish maid (Jun 19, 2018)

travellor said:


> Around 5 years now.
> A normal diet since, and normal hba1c ever since.
> Personally, I'd say go for it, if you don't reverse, low carb is a fall back position.


Thank you, I'll bear it in mind


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## Martin Canty (Jun 19, 2018)

travellor said:


> Around 5 years now.
> A normal diet since, and normal hba1c ever since.
> Personally, I'd say go for it, if you don't reverse, low carb is a fall back position.


Interesting, so how is your A1c these days?


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## Diabetes UK (Jun 19, 2018)

It can be very frustrating when titles such as the "Fast Fix" are used, for obvious reasons that you have all mentioned i.e it is not a fix for other types of diabetes and it may not be a fix for many people living with type 2.  But I would like to add that it's not even a 'quick fix' for those who _are_ successful - it requires a lot of commitment and dedication, with long-term lifestyle changes involved.

It's good to hear your experience @travellor in having success with a low-calorie diet. As you have rightly mentioned - it is a complex diet, much more than just 8 weeks of low-calorie shakes and importantly, it may not be successful for everyone.   For example - in the DiRECT (Newcastle) Trial for example -  just under half (46%) of those who took part in the programme were in remission after 12 months. Volunteers for the trial were overweight or obese, had their Type 2 diabetes for less than six years and were not using insulin.

So - you can see that the approach would not be applicable to everyone. The trial is still ongoing to establish what the long-term implications are.
However, scientific research such as DiRECT (Newcastle) study, does have very promising results, despite that we don't yet have the level of evidence needed to determine if a treatment like this should be made available within the NHS in the future.  _(DiRECT is currently happening in GP practices in Scotland and Newcastle, to see if this treatment can be delivered within the NHS)._

But, promisingly, the world of science continues to move forward! Diabetes UK are now funding a new trial at Newcastle University ReTune,  to see if the same approach to weight loss can put type 2 into remission for those who are _not_ overweight. 

Emily Burns, from the Diabetes UK research Team has written a blog about the 'Fast Fix' program that some of you may find interesting:   *https://blogs.diabetes.org.uk/?p=10630*


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## Diabetes UK (Jun 19, 2018)

kentish maid said:


> Hi @travellor, I've not been a member for very long, just wondered how long ago you did the Newcastle diet, and how long you have been reversed? I'm waiting on an HbA1c result later this week, and depending on the result am having to consider what my options are if the result is not what I hope for. I am currently controlling my diabetes by diet and exercise



Good luck with your results @kentish maid   If you do consider a low calorie diet, have a discussion with your GP as they will be able to advise whether it will be suitable for you, based on your own medical circumstances. They can also support you in monitoring you during any sort of low-calorie diet to ensure that it is being managed safely.

Great there are people here who have experienced the diet first-hand to support you.


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## kentish maid (Jun 19, 2018)

Hannah DUK said:


> Good luck with your results @kentish maid   If you do consider a low calorie diet, have a discussion with your GP as they will be able to advise whether it will be suitable for you, based on your own medical circumstances. They can also support you in monitoring you during any sort of low-calorie diet to ensure that it is being managed safely.
> 
> Great there are people here who have experienced the diet first-hand to support you.


Thank you, I will bear that in mind.


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## travellor (Jun 19, 2018)

Martin Canty said:


> Interesting, so how is your A1c these days?



It's been steady at around 35, for the last five years.


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