# DVLA and hypos



## Landymech (Nov 15, 2016)

Hello, I'm a type 1 diabetic for over 30 years, average control of it. My driving licence was revoked by DVLA due to the independent diabetic consultant advised that I had had 2 episodes of hypoglycemia during the 3 months of monitoring. These 2 episodes were early evening after an afternoon nap. On waking up I recognised the symptoms and reacted with lucozade drink. Checked my sugar levels which were 2.9 the other 3.6, low I know but on waking up I reacted accordingly on my own, after the lucozade I immediately had food to keep it level. I told the consultant this and the findings sent to DVLA. I was applying for my C1 licence  (small truck and large van) weeks and months passed. Then a letter from DVLA revoking me from driving. My GP has tried supporting me writing letters saying I am fully aware of severe hypoglycemia but DVLA aren't having any of it. They sa I am have 'reduced awareness of a hypoglycemia event' with a significant foreseeable increased risk of severe hypoglycemia' I now need to reply with further evidence ie 3 months of monitoring to suggest the findings from the consultant report is no longer applicable.
Anyone had this and overcome it all? I'm about to lose my job then probably my house and sanity. Any help out there?


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## grovesy (Nov 15, 2016)

Welcome, am sorry unable to help with your query! I am sure someone who will be able to help!


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## Diabeticliberty (Nov 15, 2016)

Launch an immediate appeal. I may be wrong on this but am pretty certain that if you have not had hypo's requiring assistance from anybody else then they cannot take your license off you. You really need to challenge them though since they only seem to listen to the people who don't just roll over and give in. If you also have your doctor 'onside' then that should also help. I once had a driving license withdrawn after a road accident caused by hypoglycemia. I did get it back though after only 2 weeks. This involved me applying lots and lots and lots of pressure. I hope you find a solution soon


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## pav (Nov 15, 2016)

Not due to diabetes, but sleep apnea notified DVLA and had the letter saying my licence had been revoked. It took me over 12 months to get it back even though I went private and bought the required equipment to treat it within a few days of diagnosis. DVLA is very random in their decision making as other friends have the same illness and got to keep their licence and were diagnosed within a close time period as myself. 

They would not listen until the hospital showed that the treatment had worked for the minimum of 12 months, I then had it restricted later on to a 12 monthly licence and had categories removed off my entitlement list of vehicles I could drive. Another 12 months of having to go through their wait and see period, eventually got the restriction removed, but did not get the vehicle entitlements re-added  

Does your meter have software that allows you to download and print out reports showing your levels and history? Don't know if it's possible to appeal their decision these days as it may be your only option and to provide the documentation showing what you have being like in your levels and if their doctors panel are accessible to a face to face meeting.

Due to my hypos all self caught with no intervention of others to overcome them, I almost lost another licence, as I needed a doctors report and the doc put in the report that I had suffered hypos and did not include that they were self treated and I was hypo aware. This time I was lucky as had a meeting with the person dealing with the licence accepted what I said.


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## novorapidboi26 (Nov 15, 2016)

Sounds like a misunderstanding...........

You are not allowed more than one sever hypo requiring assistance from someone else...

So its not your fault, but the doctors....

I have hypos all the time, but I don't share them with my consultant...

I would be going back to the clinic and getting the individual who contacted the DVLA in the first place to retract their findings...


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## Northerner (Nov 15, 2016)

I'd suggest calling the Diabetes UK Helpline - they should be able to help guide you through this. I don't drive, but I do know that they can't take your license away for having a hypo when you are nowhere near a car and deal with it yourself!  Do ANY T1s exist who never have a hypo? What nonsense!

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/helpline


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## Pumper_Sue (Nov 15, 2016)

Landymech said:


> Anyone had this and overcome it all? I'm about to lose my job then probably my house and sanity. Any help out there?



What you need is two meters if you feel hypo then use your hypo meter if fine then use your usual meter


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## Owen (Nov 15, 2016)

Pumper_Sue said:


> What you need is two meters if you feel hypo then use your hypo meter if fine then use your usual meter


That would be completely unethical but a good idea.


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## Pumper_Sue (Nov 15, 2016)

Owen said:


> That would be completely unethical but a good idea.


May I point out DVLA are unethical in their decision making


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## Owen (Nov 15, 2016)

Pumper_Sue said:


> May I point out DVLA are unethical in their decision making


Can't disagree with you at all


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## Diabeticliberty (Nov 15, 2016)

A very unethical thing to do which I absolutely do not recommend you do under any circumstances and I do not condone is to manipulate the dates on your blood test meter. By doing so you could effectively make 1 week of intensive blood testing appear to be 12 months merely by changing dates and times every time you test. I only point this out to advise all of you to never actually try it for it would obviously be wrong  to try and cheat DVLA who are a wonderful, perfectly ethical, straight, stand up organisation


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## mikeyB (Nov 15, 2016)

Yes. Furthermore, suggesting that as a means of deceiving the DVLA is an offence, so I suggest you delete the post. I've seen cases where people with epilepsy have told the DVLA they have only had night time fits, and their GP, but hospital records proved otherwise. Deep trouble, because any motoring offence then includes licence and insurance offences.


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## pav (Nov 15, 2016)

If DVLA had seen one of my meters they would of had a dickie fit, as it randomly reset itself to the default production time setting. Even the doc refused to accept the meters history of results and sods law I never spotted the time errors until a good few results later on.


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## Owen (Nov 15, 2016)

mikeyB said:


> Yes. Furthermore, suggesting that as a means of deceiving the DVLA is an offence, so I suggest you delete the post. I've seen cases where people with epilepsy have told the DVLA they have only had night time fits, and their GP, but hospital records proved otherwise. Deep trouble, because any motoring offence then includes licence and insurance offences.


In @Diabeticliberty s defence, he is clearly telling the OP not to do this.


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## Diabeticliberty (Nov 15, 2016)

mikeyB said:


> Yes. Furthermore, suggesting that as a means of deceiving the DVLA is an offence, so I suggest you delete the post. I've seen cases where people with epilepsy have told the DVLA they have only had night time fits, and their GP, but hospital records proved otherwise. Deep trouble, because any motoring offence then includes licence and insurance offences.




DVLA have been hauled over the coals on a number of occasions in the past 18 months for applying blanket rules and not treating individual drivers as individuals. When the head of the agency was questioned he said 'We always learn from our mistakes' clearly this does not apply in Landymech's case because they are breaking their own rules AGAIN by removing someone's license and potentially their livelihood when clearly they fully recognise hypo symptoms and self treat. Did you not read that Doctor Zhivago? In any case I was only serving to highlight the importance of ensuring that blood test meters are correctly timed and dated. Pav has already suggested that his meter does its own thing and changes dates and times at will which kind of fortifies the point I have attempted to make. I will therefore not remove the post since to do so would suggest that I was trying to infer someone uses illegal means to keep hold of their driving licence, car and job


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## Greyhound Gal (Nov 16, 2016)

The DVLA rules clearly state that they only need to be informed if you have had two or more hypos in a 12 month period where you have required assistance. This is clearly not the case and you should certainly appeal. Your doctor did not even need to tell them about the hypos you had had as you dealt with them effectively yourself. As Northerner says, speak to DUK about how best to take the appeal forward and a written copy of the rules, so you can quote them back at the DVLA. This is not acceptable.
Please let us know how you get on.


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## Robin (Nov 16, 2016)

Have the DVLA got confused between your normal licence, and your application for C1, which may need a higher standard ( assume this is where your 3 months records come in, I don't know what the hypo situation is for that category, I'm afraid)


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## Diabeticliberty (Nov 16, 2016)

Robin said:


> Have the DVLA got confused between your normal licence, and your application for C1, which may need a higher standard ( assume this is where your 3 months records come in, I don't know what the hypo situation is for that category, I'm afraid)




When I applied for a C1 they were treated separately. Having said this my normal license was delayed as they played silly whilst processing my C1 application. In the end I had to just accept the normal license and forgo the C1 as the police were hounding me as they wanted to award me with some lovely penalty points for singing at the wheel of my car while driving*



* I was actually speeding but please don't tell the fuzz


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## mikeyB (Nov 16, 2016)

Owen said:


> In @Diabeticliberty s defence, he is clearly telling the OP not to do this.


I was referring to Pumper Sue's post


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## Diabeticliberty (Nov 16, 2016)

mikeyB said:


> I was referring to Pumper Sue's post




Doctor Atlarge you are quite an alchemist. Your ability to transform hypocrisy into diplomacy would have had you burned at the stake for sorcery 500 years ago


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## Landymech (Nov 18, 2016)

Pumper_Sue said:


> What you need is two meters if you feel hypo then use your hypo meter if fine then use your usual meter


Yeah your right Sue, I'll order one now. My own fault I know, I feel as if dvla see my good results then they think that I should never have a hypo or lower blood sugar ever again ha ha
I applied for my C1 licence almost 4 years ago, failed to get my C1 but kept my normal car licence for 3 years, seems to be a double sided sword now if applying for C1
My GP is off on the sick at the moment,un-beknown to me but went in yesterday to see if he could give evidence of my knowledge that an impending hypo is on its way, and was sent in to see a doctor whom I've never seen and she started giving me all negatives as soon as I walked in, I got really upset, told her Ive had a gutsfull of all this, saying to her she doesnt understand the pressure, the finger prick that wont stop bleeding till its all over my clean clothes etc and I walked out. Im waiting for the young open minded doctor to come back. 
Thanks for the support.


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## novorapidboi26 (Nov 18, 2016)

Surely the only way to determine [prove] if someone might not have very good hypo awareness is by the occurrence of the "severe hypo" requiring third party assistance, during the day....

It's pretty difficult to prove that you do have the awareness as opposed to proving that you do not....


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## Landymech (Nov 18, 2016)

Yes it is difficult to prove but somehow I have to, and I'm very honest, and haven't needed assistance recognising an oncoming hypo, I just graze through my working days, my diabetes is always on my mind, and my life is the same old s**t 5 days a week (apologies for all the 'me &I's) the rest of the weekend I'm in the garage helping people 
Thanks novorapisboi26 you understand where I'm coming from, this episode of life is adding years onto me, as my mam would say, love her...


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## Landymech (Dec 17, 2016)

Update on licence application....I'm still not driving.saw a consultant 3 weeks ago showed her my blood monitor and results, 3 results in the last 3 months were below 4, I explained that 2 were low due to a bout of gastroenteritis  (in bed for 2 days) the other was from after a Sunday afternoon nap. Dvla needed examples of my monitor  (the low readings) she sent a full report about my control and hypo awareness and reactions. I kept ringing dvla as I had to reapply for my licence (I'm the same person, a bit older, more haggered, about to loose my job, just bought a new house with my pregnant girlfriend) it's as if I'm an imposter, they also needed me to let them access my medical files again (3rd time this year). Found out yesterday they have written to my consultant wanting even more information, who has just taken 2 weeks Christmas leave. Can they determine so much from my blood sugar monitor which has never been calibrated yet it's the only item that has put my life into absolute chaos??


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## Northerner (Dec 17, 2016)

Very sorry to hear how this is dragging on for you  It's pretty clear that whoever is dealing with this doesn't really understand the issues  Do you know what extra information they want? 3 perfectly explainable hypos in 3 months is pretty good going, I certainly wouldn't pass that test if they think it is concerning. Do they ask 'ordinary' people if they've ever been drunk in the last 3 months (but not been near a car)?


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## HOBIE (Jan 13, 2017)

Good luck sorting Landymech   Life at times !


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## Landymech (Jan 15, 2017)

Another update, dvla sent a letter to my consultant, who quickly got me in and asked the same laborious questions about do I recognize oncoming hypos and how do I deal with them, checked my BGM a few low readings a few months ago of  3.8, 3.5 and wrote these down on the dvla form with time and dates. this will now drag its sorry ass for the next month or so probably between civil servants to judge me and my life. Getting cynical I know however I dont think the outcome is going to be in my favour.


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## HOBIE (Jan 15, 2017)

You should be ok but if you needed help for the hypo its a little different. If you have two occasions when you have been in the back of a whi van with blue things on the top. Good luck & let us know how it goes.


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## Landymech (Jan 15, 2017)

Yes, I will try and keep updates ongoing.The hypos were at home and getting things done, can't really remember if it was a busy day, but I had no help and just normal BG testing, felt a bit sweaty and slight headache, so I tested. I'm always aprehensive testing my blood now in case its below 4. Just getting on with it.... Thank you for your support.


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## HOBIE (Jan 16, 2017)

Landymech said:


> Yes, I will try and keep updates ongoing.The hypos were at home and getting things done, can't really remember if it was a busy day, but I had no help and just normal BG testing, felt a bit sweaty and slight headache, so I tested. I'm always aprehensive testing my blood now in case its below 4. Just getting on with it.... Thank you for your support.


No problem Landymech


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## Landymech (Jan 27, 2017)

Hello everyone, an update from the dark side. My diabetic 'specialist'/consultant had written a medication result and my blood monitoring results and a management plan including carbo counting at the end of November. Faxed it off to DVLA (08458500095) then rang them and they said another form had been sent to my consultant who had just gone on holidays for 3 weeks over christmas. Then a phone call out of the blue asking me can I get to the clinic urgently to assist filling the same form out that was filled out by the dvla's independant consultant in July, I said I can't get there urgently as I cant drive! I got there within an hour and waited 2.5 hours to see consultant then the form was filled in. I asked if they would fax it as it gets seen by dvla quicker. They posted it. The form wasn't filled in properly by my consultant according to dvla. I rang my consultants secretary to inform them and was swiftly said that when they received the form again they will double check its filled in correctly and I asked them to fax it to dvla. The amended form was posted some time later. My licence was revoked mid September so I have been off the road since then, my 6 month pregnant girlfriend and have moved house and are currently renovating our new home and she is struggling to drive now.
I received my redundancy letter from my employer yesterday and have 28 days left to work with them as I am unable to drive and they need a mechanic who can drive.
I will be ringing the dvla next week for an update...


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## Northerner (Jan 27, 2017)

I'm really sorry you are encountering such dreadful bureaucracy @Landymech, a catalogue of unnecessary delays  I'd be tempted to write to my MP, daft as it may sound it might be one way to ensure you get a positive outcome soon. I hope this is very close to getting sorted, it must be very stressful for you both


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## Landymech (Feb 17, 2017)

Hello again, well the good news is I have my licence back, it took 5 months to get it though, lots of stress and sleepless nights. Im the same person who lost licence but it has made me even more aware of driving whilst being diabetic.Good control from the start is the key, keeping bloods above 4 on the meter isnt easy but there are ways. Ask to see the forms the doctor/consultant writes before documents are sent to dvla as they WILL pick up any discrepancy. Good luck to anyone applying for truck licence. Thanks for all your responses


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## Robin (Feb 17, 2017)

Landymech said:


> Hello again, well the good news is I have my licence back, it took 5 months to get it though, lots of stress and sleepless nights. Im the same person who lost licence but it has made me even more aware of driving whilst being diabetic.Good control from the start is the key, keeping bloods above 4 on the meter isnt easy but there are ways. Ask to see the forms the doctor/consultant writes before documents are sent to dvla as they WILL pick up any discrepancy. Good luck to anyone applying for truck licence. Thanks for all your responses


That is good news, but did you manage to salvage your job?


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## trophywench (Feb 17, 2017)

Or if not - get a better one!


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## HOBIE (Mar 8, 2017)

Landymech said:


> Hello again, well the good news is I have my licence back, it took 5 months to get it though, lots of stress and sleepless nights. Im the same person who lost licence but it has made me even more aware of driving whilst being diabetic.Good control from the start is the key, keeping bloods above 4 on the meter isnt easy but there are ways. Ask to see the forms the doctor/consultant writes before documents are sent to dvla as they WILL pick up any discrepancy. Good luck to anyone applying for truck licence. Thanks for all your responses


Pleased for you Landymech


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## Steve Liddle (Apr 12, 2017)

So basically if you tell your GP stuff and you get confused over what you should be and what needs to be told and they will then go with worst case scenario and you lose licence ?

Have understood it to be a hypo when you needed the help of another person. If you do not need the help of another person AND you recognise the symptoms of a hypo and treat it, then this is also good


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## pav (Apr 12, 2017)

Steve Liddle said:


> So basically if you tell your GP stuff and you get confused over what you should be and what needs to be told and they will then go with worst case scenario and you lose licence ?
> 
> Have understood it to be a hypo when you needed the help of another person. If you do not need the help of another person AND you recognise the symptoms of a hypo and treat it, then this is also good




I have been on the receiving end when a doc wrote a medical report for a different type licence, and they put in the report that I had a hypo. What the doc missed out of the report that it was self treated like any of my hypos I was having at the time. Luckily for me sense prevailed and my version was accepted.


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## Everard (May 27, 2017)

"I told the consultant this and the findings sent to DVLA."

treat conultants and doctors like mushrooms, keep them in the dark and feed B######t


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## JPM8426 (May 17, 2019)

Landymech said:


> Hello, I'm a type 1 diabetic for over 30 years, average control of it. My driving licence was revoked by DVLA due to the independent diabetic consultant advised that I had had 2 episodes of hypoglycemia during the 3 months of monitoring. These 2 episodes were early evening after an afternoon nap. On waking up I recognised the symptoms and reacted with lucozade drink. Checked my sugar levels which were 2.9 the other 3.6, low I know but on waking up I reacted accordingly on my own, after the lucozade I immediately had food to keep it level. I told the consultant this and the findings sent to DVLA. I was applying for my C1 licence  (small truck and large van) weeks and months passed. Then a letter from DVLA revoking me from driving. My GP has tried supporting me writing letters saying I am fully aware of severe hypoglycemia but DVLA aren't having any of it. They sa I am have 'reduced awareness of a hypoglycemia event' with a significant foreseeable increased risk of severe hypoglycemia' I now need to reply with further evidence ie 3 months of monitoring to suggest the findings from the consultant report is no longer applicable.
> Anyone had this and overcome it all? I'm about to lose my job then probably my house and sanity. Any help out there?




Hi, This is exactly what I'm going through, only I didn't have any sever hypo's just a couple of normal hypo's (all self managed). The majority of my low readings where whilst I was sleeping as well.
I've sent the DVLA everything they've asked for twice and got nowhere. Same situation regarding employment and mortgage.


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## Lizzzie (Jun 14, 2019)

REALLY?   This is not at all reflected in the questions asked on the form.   I also have a CGM and this was no on the form either.

Something needs to be done about this.

Where should I start?


QUOTE="Greyhound Gal, post: 654305, member: 16237"]The DVLA rules clearly state that they only need to be informed if you have had two or more hypos in a 12 month period where you have required assistance. This is clearly not the case and you should certainly appeal. Your doctor did not even need to tell them about the hypos you had had as you dealt with them effectively yourself. As Northerner says, speak to DUK about how best to take the appeal forward and a written copy of the rules, so you can quote them back at the DVLA. This is not acceptable.
Please let us know how you get on.[/QUOTE]


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