# Moves to insist Trump receives psychiatric assessment!



## Amigo (Feb 17, 2017)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...nt-review-removal-procedures-25-a7583081.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...al-health-democrat-house-member-a7570611.html

Even before the 70-year-old took office, three psychiatrists wrote to Obama warning him about Trump’s state of mind, according to The Huffington Post.

Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2017/01/30/donal...g-called-into-question-6415845/#ixzz4YxhzIhEC

They've finally noticed something is amiss with this guy!


----------



## Northerner (Feb 17, 2017)

I watched his press conference. There is something going seriously wrong with him  He is a vain, deluded, rude, spoilt child with an ignorance of the office he holds that defies belief  

Evidence:
Last night President Trump said this about uranium: “You know what uranium is, right? It’s this thing called nuclear weapons. And other things. Like lots of things are done with uranium. Including some bad things. But nobody talks about that.”

He refuses to admit that this is gibberish, and will never back down. I recently read 'It Can't Happen Here' by Sinclair Lewis. Whilst the early part of the book has astounding parallels to the Trump campaign for the Presidency I did think that it all became a bit too apocalyptic after the election for comparison. Day by day I'm having to revise that impression


----------



## macabee (Feb 17, 2017)

I daresay the democrats could find a few friendly psychiatrists


----------



## mikeyB (Feb 17, 2017)

Listening to him speak, he does occasionally display an abnormality that psychiatrists call "knights move" thinking. That is, starting  on one subject and veering off into another in imitation of the movement of the knight on a chessboard. He also exhibits paranoid signs. His use of the expression "fake news" for instance. And he uses repetition to drive points home, and occasionally refers to himself as Donald Trump. Plus, voiced yesterday, the feeling that everyone is against him. Together with his ready use of easily contradicted "facts", this all adds up to a psychosis. In simple terms, this means a serious psychiatric condition. He's a mentally sick man, and as such a real danger to the world.


----------



## trophywench (Feb 17, 2017)

Well if he were totally sane, if he's feeling paranoid because everyone's against him - then actually it wouldn't be a sign that he's gone deolali whatsoever - cos it's true .......

I said this yonks ago - he ONLY wants Yes Men, will NOT accept that anything's ever not as whatever he decides it is - and thinks HE is above the Law of his own country.   I say black is white - agree or I'll dispose of you!   Exactly like everybody - from the man on the Clapham omnibus up to the flipping Queen here - not a single one of us is above British Law either.


----------



## Lucy Honeychurch (Feb 17, 2017)

mikeyB said:


> Listening to him speak, he does occasionally display an abnormality that psychiatrists call "knights move" thinking. That is, starting  on one subject and veering off into another in imitation of the movement of the knight on a chessboard. He also exhibits paranoid signs. His use of the expression "fake news" for instance. And he uses repetition to drive points home, and occasionally refers to himself as Donald Trump. Plus, voiced yesterday, the feeling that everyone is against him. Together with his ready use of easily contradicted "facts", this all adds up to a psychosis. In simple terms, this means a serious psychiatric condition. He's a mentally sick man, and as such a real danger to the world.




Agree, it's been a long held view in our house that he's either a psychopath, sociopath or has narcissistic personality disorder. Either way, or if it's something different, the man is not fit for office and is clearly mentally unstable.


----------



## Amigo (Feb 17, 2017)

I have serious concerns for his wife. She displays all the hallmarks of a woman living in an abusive relationship. Very worrying indeed


----------



## mikeyB (Feb 17, 2017)

Well observed, Amigo, I agree. And I agree it is worrying.


----------



## mikeyB (Feb 18, 2017)

There were certainly strong rumours that Ivana, his fist wife cited rape in her submission for divorce. I think she was paid off for silence.


----------



## Lucy Honeychurch (Feb 18, 2017)

mikeyB said:


> There were certainly strong rumours that Ivana, his fist wife cited rape in her submission for divorce. I think she was paid off for silence.




I've heard the similar, it makes me feel sick.


----------



## Wirrallass (Feb 18, 2017)

I CRINGE  at the very thought of him, ugh! argh!  He's on another planet & should be blasted ASAP to the furthest planet in the universe!  (Which is?) Reckon he'll dig a hole for himself sooner or later.


----------



## Manda1 (Feb 18, 2017)

He most definitely has narcissistic tendencies and probably full blown narcissistic personality disorder. He blatently feels untouchable and has expressions of grandeur... It's extremely concerning and frankly makes me feel incredibly uneasy.


----------



## trophywench (Feb 18, 2017)

It's why Melania always looks so awkward when being First Lady - she is because it isn't her being herself - I think she's much more scared of him should she happen breathe out wrong, than she is of what the public might think of her personally.


----------



## Amigo (Feb 18, 2017)

trophywench said:


> It's why Melania always looks so awkward when being First Lady - she is because it isn't her being herself - I think she's much more scared of him should she happen breathe out wrong, than she is of what the public might think of her personally.



The body language between them is very telling and there's rather disturbing video evidence of her walking up to him at the inauguration and her fear is palpable. They don't touch at all but he grabs one of her fingers and appears to twist it almost as a reminder to tow the line. It made my blood run cold. No wonder people say she seems miserable!


----------



## macabee (Feb 19, 2017)

I did not know we had so many 'psychiatrists' amongst our ranks. I daresay they consider everyone that voted for Brexit or Trump is certifiable as well!


----------



## Amigo (Feb 19, 2017)

macabee said:


> I did not know we had so many 'psychiatrists' amongst our ranks. I daresay they consider everyone that voted for Brexit or Trump is certifiable as well!



Having spent over three decades working professionally with abused women I don't need to be a psychiatrist to detect when a woman is in an abusive relationship. As an qualified Child Protection Officer I also know how inappropriate over sexualised behaviour and language is towards ones own children. 

Have no idea how this relates to Brexit. The discussion which originated from American psychiatrists and psychotherapists is about the increasingly bizarre behaviour of an individual in an immense and concerning position of power.


----------



## mikeyB (Feb 19, 2017)

macabee said:


> I did not know we had so many 'psychiatrists' amongst our ranks. I daresay they consider everyone that voted for Brexit or Trump is certifiable as well!


You may dare say that, but not on any evidence from this discussion which hasn't mentioned Brexit, either. 

I worked for a year as a senior house officer in a large psychatric hospital in Kent, treating a wide range of psychiatric problems, so I know what I'm talking about. I also had training in identifying domestic abuse in my role as a magistrate. I assume you might regard that as a reasonable basis to make a comment, but do tell me if it doesn't.


----------



## Northerner (Feb 19, 2017)

I found this quite interesting a couple of days ago:

"The debate around Donald Trump’s mental health and his fitness to continue as US president rages on. Most recently Prof Allen Frances, the psychiatrist who wrote the book (or at least the diagnostic criteria) on narcissistic personality disorder has penned a letter to the New York Times stating that although Trump is a “world-class narcissist” he does not have a mental illness as he suffers no personal distress or impairment from his condition, which is a prerequisite for the diagnosis."

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ald-trump-narcisissm-mentally-ill-personality


----------



## mikeyB (Feb 19, 2017)

Yes, Northerner, but the point that this causes impairment from this condition is the basis of this discussion. And on the balance of probabilities from the evidence, I would say that the case is at least worthy of discussion. That it causes him distress is evident from his reaction to criticism, almost childlike.

It's often said that if you present a case to twelve psychiatrists, you'll get twelve diagnoses ranging from normal to psychotic, so a single letter from a single shrink is not reliable evidence, particularly if he invented the condition.


----------



## Owen (Feb 19, 2017)

Not my area of speciality, but it bodes appear to be riding a different bus to the rest of us. I would be calling for a MH/RRV manned by a senior paramedic, doctor and police officer if I were attending him in a pre-hospital care call.


----------



## macabee (Feb 19, 2017)

I would not opine as to whether Donald Trump has any form of disease, mental or otherwise, as I am not a medical professional and any opinion I might have would be purely conjecture and anecdotal.

What I see on the media is what I am shown, can anyone make an informed and qualitative assessment on that basis I do not think so, is he an egoist, possibly, a womaniser, maybe, look back at Bill Clinton and John F Kennedy and the issues they had with women, whilst in office.

Is Trump a raving lunatic with his fingers on the nuclear button, don't ask me, is he perfect, who is? All I know is that he was democratically elected as the President of the United States, although a lot of people on both sides of the pond are tearing their hair out because he was.

I am old enough to remember when Ronald Reagan was elected as President, he was derided as a 2nd rate actor, a clown etc, however he served two terms and was considered a very popular and successful President 

I believe that some members should appraise themselves of the Goldwater-rule* from the The American Psychiatric Association's (APA) code of ethics,which states it is unethical for psychiatrists to give a professional opinion about public figures they have not examined in person, and obtained consent from, to discuss their mental health in public statements.It is named after presidential candidate Barry Goldwater.

*https://psychiatry.org/news-room/apa-blogs/apa-blog/2016/08/the-goldwater-rule


----------



## Owen (Feb 19, 2017)

Calm down, a) we are not in America so don't have to listen to their rules. b) people have a freedom of speech in this country, or at least I thought they had. c) at the very least he is not competent and therefore should not be in such an important role

Oh and he is as barmy as a fruitcake


----------



## Northerner (Feb 19, 2017)

mikeyB said:


> That it causes him distress is evident from his reaction to criticism, almost childlike.


Indeed - I suspect he's enduring a level of opposition and criticism he's never before encountered in his privileged and cosseted life, so he's not learned strategies for dealing with it


----------



## Bubbsie (Feb 19, 2017)

macabee said:


> I believe that some members should appraise themselves of the Goldwater-rule* from the The American Psychiatric Association's (APA) code of ethics,which states it is unethical for psychiatrists to give a professional opinion about public figures they have not examined in person, and obtained consent from, to discuss their mental health in public statements.It is named after presidential candidate Barry Goldwater.


Thank goodness I am not a psychiatrist therefore not subject to the American Psychiatric Associations code of ethics giving professional opinions on public figures...so am able to give my opinion on Donald Trump without fear of compromising my position...ethically or otherwise...I think the man is an absolute nutter.


----------



## Amigo (Feb 19, 2017)

The point of the post was to highlight the bill which has been tabled by a Democratic Congressman insisting that Trump be subject to psychiatric assessment.

I'm not proffering an opinion on his mental health because it's possible to be narcisstic, xenophobic, misogynistic, racist and discriminatory without being mentally ill. Does it call into question his fitness to lead? That's for the American people and his political peers to uncover but as his actions have global significance, I reserve the right to comment.


----------



## mikeyB (Feb 19, 2017)

I'd just like to add that the Goldwater rule dates from more than 40 years ago, based on incidents more than half a century ago. Psychiatry has moved on apace since then. The psychiatrists bible, the DSM, has quadrupled in size since it was first published. 

And in my psychiatric training, we were expected to proffer diagnoses based on video of patients, much like we have on Trump.


----------



## robert@fm (Feb 19, 2017)

macabee said:


> I daresay they consider everyone that voted for Brexit or Trump is certifiable as well!





mikeyB said:


> You may dare say that, but not on any evidence from this discussion which hasn't mentioned Brexit, either.


Sadly, what macabee used there is a fairly common dishonest arguing tactic called Irrelevant Diversion; trying to derail a discussion by shifting it onto an unrelated topic.Fortunately, if people are alert and sensible, it rarely if ever works.


----------



## mikeyB (Feb 19, 2017)

I can remember when Eisenhower was president. Kennedy was hated by many because he was Catholic, but he started the US on its way to the moon.  Johnson was a hard nosed dirty fighter, Nixon was a shyster, Reagan not the sharpest tool in the box, but sustained by good advisers  Carter and Clinton a matching pair of buffoons, but harmless. The two Bushes show that offspring tend to gravitate towards the average compared to parents. Obama was a saint, so the republicans hated him.

Not a single one of the above ever passed a presidential order that was deemed unconstitutional by a court of law, none had a chat with Russia before they were even in the White House, and none ever stopped the inflow of migrants to the country, or managed to offend Mexico, Australia, Europe, and every other ally all in the first three weeks of being president. None of the above presidents were perfect, far from it, but they weren't actively dangerous. They appointed experienced old hands to important positions. Trump has appointed businessmen and bigoted bloggers and in laws to positions of state, with apparently nobody in charge. Well, good luck with that, because it is a house of cards. Not single one of them knows how to run a country, and they are stumbling around like the walking dead. It would be funny if it weren't important, but it is.


----------



## ypauly (Feb 19, 2017)

He's definitely a loon, that's why I like him.


----------



## Rosiecarmel (Feb 20, 2017)

I wouldn't quote the Mayo Clinic in an assignment (as I am a student mental health nurse) However.... "
If you have narcissistic personality disorder, you may come across as conceited, boastful or pretentious. You often monopolize conversations. You may belittle or look down on people you perceive as inferior. You may feel a sense of entitlement — and when you don't receive special treatment, you may become impatient or angry. You may insist on having "the best" of everything — for instance, the best car, athletic club or medical care.

At the same time, you have trouble handling anything that may be perceived as criticism. You may have secret feelings of insecurity, shame, vulnerability and humiliation. To feel better, you may react with rage or contempt and try to belittle the other person to make yourself appear superior. Or you may feel depressed and moody because you fall short of perfection."

If the shoe fits.....


----------

