# what happens when a diabetic has a fit and why??



## hellbell84 (Apr 28, 2011)

just read a previous thread and its made me think about why do diabetics have fits?

i had one friday morning - woke up, asked other half what he wanted for breakfast whilst he was still in bed, went to lay on sofa and next thing i know i remember my hands shaking, and then my whole body shaking. the next thing i remember is other half screaming "WHAT THE F**K DO I DO!!??" 

eventually came round after he gave me a litre bottle of lucozade (Slightly OTT!) and then started crying my eyes out, not sure why

the thing is; i felt fine before bed, i felt fine when i woke up, and it was literally minutes after asking him what he wanted for breakfast that i got into this state. it was the first time he has ever encountered it but i am quite annoyed with myself as i had no warning signs, and god knows what would have happened if he wasnt there

Bk to original question, why do diabetics have fits when they are super low? and how was it that it happened so quickly with no warning signs, and do any of you guys live alone, if so, what precautions do you take so that this doesnt happen when you are by yourself?? he's now gone on holiday for a week so obivously his family and mine are worried about me, which they shouldnt be, its my problem and i need to deal with it, noone else!!

any advice would be great

thanks


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## everydayupsanddowns (Apr 28, 2011)

Yikes! how scary. I've had that sort of thing early morning before too (though not for years thankfully)

I think it's down to brain malfunction when there's not enough glucose for it to work properly.

I think it's a worry for anyone living alone. Alan (Northerner) always makes sure he is above a certain level before bed, and keeps a careful eye on basal levels to avoid overnight hypos, including waking at 3am for tests (which several forum parents also do to check their T1 kids).


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## shiv (Apr 28, 2011)

Hiya, this was on the CWD email list a few days ago. This is from a DSN.

"Hi, seizures due to hypos are part of the bodies defence mechanism against cerebral low glucose levels. They occur when the body has reached the limit of gluco-neogenesis, (the manufacturing of glucose in the liver from glucagon, fats and proteins). It’s most commonly seen in drunks, where the alcohol switches off this process and why being drunk can increase the risk of severe hypo for people with diabetes. A number of the symptoms of hangover are linked to hypoglycaemia. When the cerebral glucose levels is not high enough for what the brain needs, the brain stimulates the muscles to work – hence the seizure – and the waste products generated from this are transported to the liver in the blood and converted into glucose. I’ve heard Stephanie Amiel explain this a couple of times and I think this is the process.
Hence the reason glucose levels rise following the seizure. Seizures are more common when glycogen stores are low (also why glucagon may not have as big an effect at these times)– following unusual exercise pattern, either starting up new exercise from being couch potato – or more than usual. Nice Bank holiday weekends are good examples, when you get out and do much more than usual. The exercise can have an effect on basal insulin needs for 24-48 hours later. This is commonly seen on activity weekends with kids who are not active, when insulin levels may drop 30-50%. Following exercise the body preferentially refills muscle glycogen stores before liver. If glucose is not available (from food), then the liver will release turn it’s glycogen into glucose to refuel the liver. The muscles are best refilled in the 30 minutes post exercise, when they need less insulin to stock up than at other times. Fast acting carb post exercise helps provide this. Also why if give full insulin for the carbs, can end up lower than expected. If had day/days with higher exercise levels than normal, also worth thinking about a basal reduction overnight to prevent severe hypo."


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## hellbell84 (Apr 28, 2011)

thanks for the heads up everyone. just feel like a failure, after years of denying the fact i have diabetes, and have finally accepted it, my most recent HBA1C was 7.3% and then this happens.

fighting a losing battle no matter what i do!! and i dont get carb counting, any books out there which people find useful??

plus im annoyed there were no warning signs as i had been awake for 45 mins or so before it happened...!

i hate diabetes. it sucks. a lot.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Apr 28, 2011)

Thanks for that Shiv, that's very interesting.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Apr 28, 2011)

HellBell

Sorry to hear you are feeling down with D at the moment. Happens to us all. 7.3 is a pretty good A1c though so you are certainly *not* failing.

What don't you 'get' about carb counting? Have you tried the BDEC course - many people have found it helpful - http://www.bdec-e-learning.com/


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## hellbell84 (Apr 28, 2011)

thanks for the link everyday  i havent brought it up with my clinic yet, maybe i should, i dont know how you calculate how much insulin you are supposed to inject in ratio to carbs?



thanks in advance


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## SusieGriff (Apr 28, 2011)

Shiv! that was very interesting ! thanks for posting that.  Sorry hellbell, I can't offer anymore than the others have said, except make sure you are between 7-10 before you go to bed, it's what I was advised. and I always carry a packet of glucose tabs, in my dressinggown pocket, jeans, car, handbag, jacket.. everywhere.. just in case !!


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## shiv (Apr 28, 2011)

hellbell84 said:


> thanks for the link everyday  i havent brought it up with my clinic yet, maybe i should, i dont know how you calculate how much insulin you are supposed to inject in ratio to carbs?
> 
> 
> 
> thanks in advance



Noooot medical advice but: you have to start from somewhere, so most DSNs will get you to start with say a ratio of 1u for every 10g carbs you eat. Make lots of notes about carbs eaten, insulin taken and your BG levels, and you can work out what needs adjusting (ie lots of people need more insulin per 10g in the morning). Get in and talk to your nurse and request to be put on a carb counting course if they have one


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## Catwoman76 (Apr 28, 2011)

hellbell84 said:


> thanks for the link everyday  i havent brought it up with my clinic yet, maybe i should, i dont know how you calculate how much insulin you are supposed to inject in ratio to carbs?
> 
> 
> thanks in advance
> ...


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## everydayupsanddowns (Apr 28, 2011)

1:10 would be the starting point if you went on DAFNE as far as I know.

Alternatively you could work backwards from a regular meal that you know works...

eg... You have 6 units for lunch which is sandwich and apple and that usually works, sandwich is about 30g say, plus 15-20g for an apple, so call it 50g

6 units divided by 50g would give you 1u to 12g carbs (or whatever your numbers *actually* are).

Then experiment with that that say by missing off the apple (and dropping a unit), or adding a low fat/low sugar yoghurt (say 15g carbs) and adding a unit.


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## Jennywren (Apr 28, 2011)

hellbell84 i suffer with fits too as i have hypo unawareness they can be very scarey cant they a quick explanation i was given is that the brain is starved of glucose which is what everydayupsanddowns and shiv explain as well . Like you i too get very emotional and 9?10 come round from a hypo crying again i think this has something to do what changes are happening in your brain when you have hypo/fit .

Shiv , that is interesting ,i have met professor Stephanie Amiel when i was referred to her at Kings to find out about islet transplantation , she is very interesting to listen to , although sadly said i was suitable for islet transplant


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## Bolddog (Apr 28, 2011)

This is a very helpful thread

Thanks in particular Hellbell & Shiv

Bolddog   _( only dog left in the kennel )_


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## Tezzz (Apr 28, 2011)

An HbA21c of 7.3% is pretty good so you're not a failure.

You would have to find out your carb to insulin ratio from the DSN.

You can get very emotional when you have a hypo.

D is always moving the goal posts. It's not your fault.

If you are worried about hypo awareness speak to your diabetes team.

May I suggest a Collins Gem Carb counting book?  Under a fiver from Amazon.

Don't forget some foods are a pain to bolus for.


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## PhoebeC (Apr 29, 2011)

Thats one of the joys of diabetes hypos with no signs, i have only had 2 bad ones in 5 years, i wasnt aware i was awake or what i was doing both times i freaked my husband out.

He went away for a week after i have not long had the 2nd bad one and i was left alone with our baby, i was going to bed each night eating wine gums so id be to high in the night.

I dont carb count but i know the basics of when to have more insulin or less when i eat certain things, like for a salad id need 6 where i normally have 12 at lunch, but if i was having a bigger meal i might have 14. Its about knowing your body, but do it slowly and carefully.

Hope you feel better xx


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## Ruth Goode (Apr 30, 2011)

Carly had her 1st fit on Easter Monday :-( she had her fit an hour after her dinner (pasta then ice cream) we do carb counting and adjust her insulin. Her DSN and doctor confirmed it is due to her over active in the heat so that I will now agreed after yesterday we went on the beach and she had 4 hypo in a day!! (I've been double-checking her since!!) I have to reduce her insulin if she get over active again.


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## Ikey the tinker (May 4, 2011)

hellbell84 said:


> thanks for the heads up everyone. just feel like a failure, after years of denying the fact i have diabetes, and have finally accepted it, my most recent HBA1C was 7.3% and then this happens.
> 
> fighting a losing battle no matter what i do!! and i dont get carb counting, any books out there which people find useful??
> 
> ...



I didn't get it either but went on a DAFNE course a few weeks ago, and they explained it perfectly. I can't recommend it highly enough, if you can arrange a place through your Diabetes team.


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