# Hello, newly diagnosed T2



## harbottle (Nov 21, 2021)

Hi all,
I (51 year old male) was diagnosed as type 2 early September in a rather hurried phone call from a busy GP (blood test was 82) with instructions to 'stop eating chips' and drop a stone (I was just over 13 stone.) Started on 1000mg of Metformin. I jokingly asked about beer (I'd already given up drinking and knew it was carbs.) and she said 'you'd better stop drinking that as well.' (As well as reiterating that I should stop eating chips - which I didn't really eat much anyway!)

Just over two months later I'm down to 11 stone (Cut out of rice, chips, potatoes, pasta and switched to fish, certain vegetables and chicken, stopped drinking - although this weekend I had a few single malts which is the first alcohol since diagnosis.) and people I know no longer recognise me (I've had a few times where I've been talking to someone and I've realised that they don't know who I am.)

I wasn't having any symptoms, but did have a pain in my leg which kept me awake at night along with a stressful time at work which was also stopping me from sleeping (And got worse after a day spend hiking up hills in Herefordshire). The GP said it was wear and tear (We'd been walking 10,000 steps a day since lockdown starting.) and I decided to get the 50 year old health check tests (Which is how I found out.). The pain has gone away since losing weight/starting medication and sleeping is good. (Best it's been for years.)

My Dad had type 2 and didn't change his lifestyle at all (He died aged 60) and I believe my Granddad also had it (Lived to be 89) so I should have kept an eye on my weight really, but as the nurse told me, you might have ended up with anyway if it's genetic.

One thing I did notice was that my far eyesight got clearer a few weeks after starting the diet/medication (I started cutting carbs pretty much on the day I was diagnosed, and found the books by the Caldesi couple to be good - quick, easy and very tasty and using a lot of flavours and ingredients I already liked. I don't particularly miss the 'junk' food at all, and now tend to crave salmon or yoghurt and berries.) As a wearer of glasses I'm used to it changing after a few years (I am due another test) and get regular eye tests to make sure I'm legal for driving, so I just assumed it was natural that it was getting worse anyway.

The only 'treat' I find I do miss are 'Frazzles' and the odd burger from Five Guys.


----------



## rebrascora (Nov 21, 2021)

Hi and welcome.

It sounds like you have made all the necessary lifestyle changes. Alcohol in itself is not a problem but beer and cider etc have carbs that come with them so not a good choice but the odd shot of spirits like a single malt (I'm a rum and diet coke girl myself) or a glass or two of red wine or dry white should not impact your diabetes adversely. There have to be some pleasures in life!   Can't understand your craving for Five Guys or Frazzles. Try pork scratchings instead.... bit watch your fillings!
Do you have a date for a follow up blood test? It would usually be 3 months after initial diagnosis. That will tell you if the changes you have made have been effective, but I strongly suspect that they will have been, unless you are not an ordinary Type 2.


----------



## Docb (Nov 22, 2021)

Hi @harbottle and welcome from me as well.  

A HbA1c of 82 is in the area where the risks of complications down the line are too high for comfort.  Chances are really good that what you have done will get your HbA1c down to something like "normal" so well done mate and keep up the good work!


----------



## Lucyr (Nov 22, 2021)

I wouldn’t worry about the odd bag of frazzles, they’re only 12g carb. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing on the carb intake. A burger is fine too but maybe leave half the bun


----------



## everydayupsanddowns (Nov 22, 2021)

Well done on the changes you have made @harbottle, and especially on the weight loss, which should really help your insulin sensitivity.

Hope your follow-up blood results reflect the effort you have been putting in. 

Like @Lucyr I think you should allow yourself occasional treats - it will make it easier to maintain your changes long term if you allow yourself a little flexibility


----------



## trophywench (Nov 22, 2021)

What has happened with your eyesight is this - when there is far too much glucose floating around our bloodstream, this affects everything including the fluid and membranes surrounding the eyes which eventually causes them to change shape!  -  this happens very very gradually, not in a couple of months.   However - once we start reducing the level of spare glucose with nowhere to go - they eyes change back to their normal shape - but this happens much quicker - so in my case with T1, my eyesight was perfectly OK on the Wednesday morning I went to hospital but by Friday morning - after 2 days insulin treatment - I couldn't focus At All and it took 5 weeks to get back to normal again!   

Fortunately I hadn't even learned to drive by then so the world was safe.

I have astygmatism so my near vision has practically always needed help since I started work (in an office) aged 16 - but when actually passing my test aged mid 30s and living so near the M5/M6 back then and usually joining it at Jct 7 (ie N Birmingham) I always used to say my natural long distance focal point was approx somewhere on the Thetford viaduct!

Give it a few more months ie approx 6 in total if you can to try and make sure they've settled down as much as possible (official advice is 'at least 3 months') before booking another ordinary opticians appointment, which you can have FOC even if not actually 'normally due' on the NHS and as long as you do need a different prescription they won't charge you - but if they don't find any difference there will be a nominal payment which used to be a tenner, anyway neither here nor there when it's as important as eyesight !  Once your optician knows you have diabetes, they will ALWAYS try and see you PDQ.  Meanwhile you should get a retinopathy screening appt come through, separately from your eyesight check, which is one of the annual checks which should be automatically done for all of us.  That's handled by the NHS retinopathy service for your area - see








						Diabetic eye screening - How to book a test
					

Find out how to book an eye screening test if you have diabetes.




					www.nhs.uk


----------



## harbottle (Dec 16, 2021)

Hi all,

Thanks for your replies and information (About the eyes and the frazzles - 12g of carbs is the same as the home made bread rolls I make, so maybe I will treat myself!) Sadly I do like a 5 guys burger, usually with onions, peppers and Mushrooms.

I've just booked up for my next blood test, so we shall see. In general, I've started to feel a lot better in recent weeks - so much so people at work have noticed and commented that 'you're back to your old self.' 

I've had the odd Scotch when going out with friends & some Porky scratching, plus some bags of things called 'cheesies' and some cheese based crisps from a company based in Coventry/Warwickshire called Monarch. These are a rare treat as I'm watching my LDL levels as it's a bit high (I'm a bit concerned by the high fat recipes, as they seem quite keen on tablespoons of double cream.)

I've been monitoring BG levels. Today it's been between 4.8 (This morning) - 6.2 after a breakfast of home made banana/peanut butter pancakes and Yoghurt, back to 5.4 a few hours later. Most of the time it's then been between 4.9 and 5.5 with a strange leap to 6.8 when I went for a 'brisk' walk (I walk very fast) I stopped and checked and it had gone from 4.9 to 6.8 and then back to 5.5 when I got home. (I did wonder if this was down to my body producing glucose.) Eating a small block of 100% chocolate did cause a small spike, but it seems to quickly go back down.

When I was first diagnosed the levels were ranging from 6 to 10 so it looks like things have improved.

Currently it's sitting at 4.9 - bizarrely, after lunch (Low car home bread with salad and Turkey) I didn't see a spike but I did go for a walk

It's only been 3 months, so I guess it's early days, but I feel like progress has been made!


----------



## harbottle (Dec 16, 2021)

Lucyr said:


> I wouldn’t worry about the odd bag of frazzles, they’re only 12g carb. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing on the carb intake. A burger is fine too but maybe leave half the bun



Apparently, five guys in the US do a 'naked' burger that comes without a bun! I might ask my local branch if they do it in the UK.

I'd have to get my wife to hide the multi-pack of Frazzles if I get one, as those carbs and salt are a bit addictive.


----------



## harbottle (Dec 24, 2021)

Just had a 3 month blood test: HbA1c level was 36mmol/mol (Down from 82 in August).

Unfortunately, cholesterol is up, so is LDL... Just waiting for the Doctor to call back about it. 

Looks like the Low Carb diet has fixed one thing, but made something else bad!


----------



## Lily123 (Dec 24, 2021)

harbottle said:


> Just had a 3 month blood test: HbA1c level was 36mmol/mol (Down from 82 in August).
> 
> Unfortunately, cholesterol is up, so is LDL... Just waiting for the Doctor to call back about it.
> 
> Looks like the Low Carb diet has fixed one thing, but made something else bad!


That’s great that you have managed to bring your HbA1C down to normal levels! Unfortunate about your cholesterol


----------



## harbottle (Dec 27, 2021)

Well after a chat with the doctor, we decided to do another test in 3 months and see what the cholesterol is - as far as I can see, I am not eating much that should increase LDL and tend to avoid recipes with high saturated fat. (Some of the recipes seem quite liberal with tablespoons of double cream.)

The doctor also told me to reduce Metformin from 1000mg to 500mg, but since doing that I've noticed a rise in BG readings. It's generally 5.2 in the morning, but seems to hover between 5.4 and 6.2 during the day. I get peaks about an hour after eating, but I can see them go down. Looking around, though, it seems the Metformin doesn't really a huge effect and 2 tablets is a small dose. I'm getting a bit stressed about going back to work, though.

I'm using a free Libre device I got from their website, which is interesting. Most of the food the diabetes websites say are OK creates spikes up unti the 7-8 levels, although they do quickly come down. Oats was particularly bad!


----------



## Lily123 (Dec 27, 2021)

harbottle said:


> Well after a chat with the doctor, we decided to do another test in 3 months and see what the cholesterol is - as far as I can see, I am not eating much that should increase LDL and tend to avoid recipes with high saturated fat. (Some of the recipes seem quite liberal with tablespoons of double cream.)
> 
> The doctor also told me to reduce Metformin from 1000mg to 500mg, but since doing that I've noticed a rise in BG readings. It's generally 5.2 in the morning, but seems to hover between 5.4 and 6.2 during the day. I get peaks about an hour after eating, but I can see them go down. Looking around, though, it seems the Metformin doesn't really a huge effect and 2 tablets is a small dose. I'm getting a bit stressed about going back to work, though.
> 
> I'm using a free Libre device I got from their website, which is interesting. Most of the food the diabetes websites say are OK creates spikes up unti the 7-8 levels, although they do quickly come down. Oats was particularly bad!


That’s good that your now using the libre which will allow you to see how long after eating your numbers are staring to come down from the spike of 7-8


----------



## harbottle (Dec 27, 2021)

Mmm, the Libre has been showing 6.3 and a prick test with my TruMetrix device is showing 5.1. I’m not sure who to believe. Just been on a long walk and the libre went a bit crazy.


----------



## Bruce Stephens (Dec 27, 2021)

harbottle said:


> Mmm, the Libre has been showing 6.3 and a prick test with my TruMetrix device is showing 5.1. I’m not sure who to believe. Just been on a long walk and the libre went a bit crazy.


I must admit I'd treat those as close. They're both comfortably in range.


----------



## Lily123 (Dec 27, 2021)

harbottle said:


> Mmm, the Libre has been showing 6.3 and a prick test with my TruMetrix device is showing 5.1. I’m not sure who to believe. Just been on a long walk and the libre went a bit crazy.


The libre measures intestinal fluid not blood so it has a time lag


----------



## harbottle (Dec 27, 2021)

Bruce Stephens said:


> I must admit I'd treat those as close. They're both comfortably in range.



What is the range? I’ve seen < 7.0 mmol/L for pre meal and < 8.5 for 2 hours after the meal. (for type 2)

I thought over 6 was getting into an undesirable area.


----------



## harbottle (Dec 27, 2021)

Lily123 said:


> The libre measures intestinal fluid not blood so it has a time lag



They claim the lag is 2 minutes for the 2 model. It was around 20 minutes for the older model, apparently.


----------



## Lily123 (Dec 27, 2021)

harbottle said:


> What is the range? I’ve seen < 7.0 mmol/L for pre meal and < 8.5 for 2 hours after the meal. (for type 2)
> 
> I thought over 6 was getting into an undesirable area.


4-7 for a fasting BG is in range for a non-diabetic and is what most diabetics aim for and type 2 after meal is aiming for a spike at most of 8.5


----------



## Lily123 (Dec 27, 2021)

harbottle said:


> They claim the lag is 2 minutes for the 2 model. It was around 20 minutes for the older model, apparently.


Oh I get about a 10 minute lag but I don’t know what the exact time is


----------



## Leadinglights (Dec 27, 2021)

I would suspect the profile on the Libre might be different between people who are Type 1 and Type 2, so the lag may well also be different.


----------



## Lily123 (Dec 27, 2021)

Leadinglights said:


> I would suspect the profile on the Libre might be different between people who are Type 1 and Type 2, so the lag may well also be different.


Oh yeah that makes sense


----------



## harbottle (Dec 29, 2021)

I did read a discussion on another forum where they were skeptical that the calculation could bring the lag down so much, but speculated that the maths might have changed. 


I’ve been using the Libre and finger prick side by side and the Libre is generally .6-1.2 higher - this morning when I got up it was giving me readings of 6, but a finger prick gave me 4.9. I can see the peaks and drops (although it tends to give errors during rises/falls and the graph ends up missing chunks!) 

This morning was an experiment with 30g of oats with some peanut butter- finger peaked at 8.1, and 2 hours later was less than 7. 

The Libre is a great device, but I’m not sure I need one. Most of the meals I eat now don’t create spikes and I tend to be back down after a few hours if they do. 

I see a lot of f sites recommending oats for type 2s, but they are high in carb and seem to create a spike. The same amount of carbs in a meal of vegetables and meat doesn’t do anything to me, some of them barely touch the BG levels.


----------



## andyp64 (Dec 29, 2021)

Hmmmm - I've heard the same about oats.
But ---- since metformin they have spiked my BG and seem to give me the chronic runs.
I guess we're all different. It would seem I'm more sensitive to the carbs in oats and the fibre does it's job too well!
I'm currently trying scrambled eggs for breakfast (only a 1.0 rise in BG after two hours).
Now I know these seem to be OK, I will slowly add extra things and test, test, test.


----------



## harbottle (Dec 30, 2021)

andyp64 said:


> Hmmmm - I've heard the same about oats.
> But ---- since metformin they have spiked my BG and seem to give me the chronic runs.
> I guess we're all different. It would seem I'm more sensitive to the carbs in oats and the fibre does it's job too well!
> I'm currently trying scrambled eggs for breakfast (only a 1.0 rise in BG after two hours).
> Now I know these seem to be OK, I will slowly add extra things and test, test, test.



My normal breakfast of Greek Yoghurt and Berries doesn't even show a rise most of the time. I occasionally have scrambled eggs/mushroom omelette, but haven't done any readings yet. After my last cholesterol reading (LDL up, HDL and Trig down to normal levels) and a threat of drugs, I've been a bit put off of them. I don't eat much food that has a lot of saturated fat in it, and the recipes I follow with things that do have sats are usually in very small portions.

The weird thing about oats is that when I ate them I felt quite energetic and a bit 'warm' (I get the same when I eat a Daal dish with loads of lentils, which doesn't cause a BG spike or have a cappuccino with dairy milk.)  I've been using rolled oats, soaked overnight, but I've got some steel cut oats to try as these are apparently better. I don't get the runs, generally the opposite! The last time I had the runs was after having a 'Gym Box' (Chicken and veg) from a place called German Doner Kebab! I haven't been back since.


----------



## rebrascora (Dec 30, 2021)

andyp64 said:


> Hmmmm - I've heard the same about oats.
> But ---- since metformin they have spiked my BG and seem to give me the chronic runs.
> I guess we're all different. It would seem I'm more sensitive to the carbs in oats and the fibre does it's job too well!
> I'm currently trying scrambled eggs for breakfast (only a 1.0 rise in BG after two hours).
> Now I know these seem to be OK, I will slowly add extra things and test, test, test.


The "runs" are almost certainly down to the Metformin rather than the oats. It is a well known side effect or it could possibly be a combination of the two but I would be surprised if the oats themselves were responsible.


----------



## harbottle (Feb 26, 2022)

Bit of an update.

After Xmas I started 'finger pricking' more often as a I was paranoid the reduction of Metformin would lead to BG going to up.

Generally in the morning I'm less than 6 and generally in the high 4s and low 5s. I don't seem to get high BG in the morning like a lot of people do. I have not seen a reading over 8 for months - highest was in the mid 7s an hour after I ate five oat cakes.

Strange changes have been happening, though. Before I was diagnosed I'd seen the GP (Had a telephone call, where I did say I was concerned that I might be diabetic, but they told me I wasn't as I didn't have the classic symptoms) about thigh pains. When I went in to get some 50 year health checks done my heart rate was 120 so they made me do an ECG which was fine. My 'resting' heart rate was generally around 95-100. I also had muscle twitching and after walking (Which was not painful) sitting down did seem to cause aches and twitching. This had got worse after a weekend hiking in the Wyre forest.

After starting on Metformin and the diet (I did it quickly, which I now see was probably not wise) the pain became bearable and I started to sleep again. (Actually, initially after starting the Metformin/Diet the pains got worse for a while.) When I saw the Diabetes Nurse in October, she said the pulse in my feet was very strong and they were in better conditions than hers.

This year, over the last few weeks, I've seen my resting heart rate fall day by day to the sixties. All the aches and pains have gone in my legs as has the slight 'numbness' in my knee. Looking at my watch data, I can see that VO2 has been increasing to above average, walking heart rate has been falling as has resting heart rate... I also feel stronger and warmer and when I do my 'brisk' walk around Warwick Uni I can feel my legs are stronger and am thinking about finding a more challenging/longer walk. 

Looking at my watch data (I had no idea it has been recording all this stuff) I can see that my heart rate went up in May/June of last year (When the leg pain started and I got stressed at work) and started to fall in December/End of November (When I started to feel a lot better and people at work commented that I don't 'look like a ghost' anymore.) 

I mentioned high heart rate and aches and pains to the GP and nurse, but got shrugged off. Clearly something has been changing since December, and has accelerated recently, as I can see changes almost daily. I can take an ECG on my watch and get an average heart rate in the low 60s. Five months ago the lowest I could get was 95.

The only thing I can't fix is the loss of my derriere since getting my BMI to the middle of my range. It's like sitting on bones.

I was also quite happy that a gum operation I had last year healed perfectly (And my gum disease has totally gone, a bleeding score of zero which surprised the dentist who said 'your gums are healthier than mine' now). 

I bought a couple of Libre 2 sensors after using a free 'trial' one, but don't think I'll bother with them again - the results were bizarre with the second one, with weird sudden high readings if I moved my arm or went for a walk (It shot up when I cleaned my teeth!). I think I might have placed it in the wrong position.

I have managed to stop any 'carb creep' - the odd crisp or a small handful of chips don't seem to cause any issues, neither do oranges/satsumas/apples... probably eating too many nuts and peanut butter (With celery! Yum!)

I have also managed to get back into my hobby of writing (I felt so bad last year I couldn't do anything) and have recently finished a screenplay which I might try to make (I made films when I was a teenager using Super 8) and a few short stories.

Now I just need to maintain it this way!

(Thanks to anyone who got this far.)


----------



## rebrascora (Feb 26, 2022)

Absolutely fantastic improvement and I can relate to many of the things you mention. Huge "WELL DONE" on turning your life around.
As regards the derriere situation.... powering up hills is the answer. Having lived at the bottom of a steep hill almost my entire life and scarpered up it daily, my partner can/will vouch for the "benefit" to the posterior.  Not saying I would give Kim Kardashian a run for her money, nor would I wish to, but definitely never worried about discomfort even when seated on the hardest of surfaces or landing on it from a great height when my errant steed Rascal would throw me up in the air and fail to catch me again.


----------



## harbottle (Mar 12, 2022)

I live at the bottom of a slight hill and power walk up it once or twice a week - Coventry is quite flat in general. 

I spent last night sitting on an uncomfortable chair at a music gig in the Cathedral. It felt like I was sitting on my bones!

One other thing I have noticed regarding health is that my VO2 has, in the last month, been going up - it's gone from low through average to above average almost daily (Another stat that my watch has been recording for some time). I've noticed that as this has happened I feel a lot more energetic and I am starting to feel that a brisk walk is not hard enough and I need to start running or jogging.

I don't think I realised how ill I was last year. The whole year up until September is a bit of a blur - too much work, lack of sleep and pains didn't help! I can't even remember stuff I did at work, and even listening to new records that I bought when I was in agony brings back memories of pain.


----------



## Windy (Mar 12, 2022)

harbottle said:


> I spent last night sitting on an uncomfortable chair at a music gig in the Cathedral. It felt like I was sitting on my bones!


Can you buy one of the foam pads that hill walkers use to cushion their bottoms when they sit on rocks? They do folding ones too, or I bought an A4ish sized kneeler pad from a pound shop a while ago, which would do the same job.
Sadly I come with my own built in padding! 
Glad to hear you're feeling more energetic.


----------

