# A strict 1200 for the lethargic and grumpy



## Feathers (Jun 11, 2021)

@Weekender I feel bad hijacking Colin's thread, so thought if you wanted to discuss our experience trying to move off Newcastle and onto 1200, we could do it here? And if the buddy thing sounds good, maybe we can check in with each other here or something?

Some context -  the conversation in ColinUK's thread, from here on for a few posts: https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/board...-calorie-newcastle.84706/page-21#post-1077754

Basically Weekender and myself are both stopping the Newcastle diet, after a similar number of days (part way through week 3) But we want to keep to a strict diet for a few more weeks (I'm aiming to do my remaining 9).


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## ColinUK (Jun 11, 2021)

No need to apologise for hijacking!


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## Feathers (Jun 12, 2021)

Stopping the diet was definitely the right call! This morning, going and making a cuppa DIDN'T feel insurmountable, I actually have emotions again, and (please forgive me if TMI) but my period had been sort of trying to happen all week but not really happening, and has now come on full. 1200 here we go


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## trophywench (Jun 12, 2021)

It certainly isn't TMI because it's usually a pretty good sign that the body isn't struggling lie it was when the periods were AWOL.  (It's kinda like bowel trouble - if you're either bunged up or the opposite - there's definitely something wrong somewhere!)


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## Feathers (Jun 13, 2021)

Morning check-in:
- weight is stable (predictable, as the reintroduction of solid food will have "added" weight)
- fasting sugars were 5.6 this morning.


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## Feathers (Jun 14, 2021)

Monday check in (am going to check in weekly after this)
- weight 18st 9lb (1lb down, but back to what I was a week ago)
- Fasting sugars 5.6 again

@Weekender how are you doing?


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## Nayshiftin (Jun 14, 2021)

trophywench said:


> It certainly isn't TMI because it's usually a pretty good sign that the body isn't struggling lie it was when the periods were AWOL.  (It's kinda like bowel trouble - if you're either bunged up or the opposite - there's definitely something wrong somewhere!)


Yes, I find that with the latter it’s not good but I keep changing diet too so it’s bound to happen. One thing that help is keep hydrated .


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## Weekender (Jun 14, 2021)

Feathers said:


> Monday check in (am going to check in weekly after this)
> - weight 18st 9lb (1lb down, but back to what I was a week ago)
> - Fasting sugars 5.6 again
> 
> @Weekender how are you doing?


Hi Feathers. We had people over on Saturday night, and I thought I could get away with a drink I invented  - the Pintini. Gin, vermouth in a pint of sparkling water. A low calorie alcoholic pint. Needless to say it was shite, I put on weight and it took 2 days on the 800 calories to get back to Fridays weight. I've also been less strict, eating before 12 and after 6pm. I thought homemade soups and curries could be added in, given the exercise I've been doing. So today I reverted to the plan. Feeling grumpy and tired again, but I think that's what needs to be done tbh. Tomorrow is my 3 week complete. I've been stuck on 9.1kg lost, and was hoping to beat someone who lost 10kg in 3 weeks. (So they say). I will post my graphs and stuff tomorrow. Been Googling diet plateau. As we lose weight we lose muscle so burn less. But I won't panic. Pintini (3 of them) is probably the issue


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## Feathers (Jun 14, 2021)

Everyone has off nights - at least you're trying again  So you're back to the 800? Good luck! I hope you (and yours) can survive the grump!


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## Weekender (Jun 14, 2021)

Feathers said:


> Everyone has off nights - at least you're trying again  So you're back to the 800? Good luck! I hope you (and yours) can survive the grump!


Thanks - I've learned to take myself off if I get too hangry. 

Prof Taylor recommends 'no breaks'. The theory goes : If you have too many carbs you stop being 'fat adapted' and it takes a few days after resuming the VLCD to get past the carb cravings and back to fat burning. 

Certainly my ketone readings have been low since the Pinitini debacle, despite my jogging whilst fasting in the morning. This used to get them to 1.5 to 3.0 mg/dL. Today - just traces. 

 My experience this weekend is that it's too much aggravation readapting, so I hope I stay on the path. Of course there's no one path and there is plenty of evidence to support different views.

I'm concluding if I am going to do a VLCD for 8 weeks I should either stick to it, or take a different much longer term approach. I will keep you posted


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## Weekender (Jun 14, 2021)

Feathers said:


> Morning check-in:
> - weight is stable (predictable, as the reintroduction of solid food will have "added" weight)
> - fasting sugars were 5.6 this morning.


5.6 is in the good range


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## trophywench (Jun 14, 2021)

See - alcohol in the form of spirits albeit lower calories than a pint of brown and mild - has always been described as 'empty' calories because spirits have no actual nutritional value whatsoever - a pub measure (1/6 of a gill/25ml) is 52 cals and nobody on earth pours a pub measure freehand - so how many empty calories did you consume? - don't answer that, it's all pintini under the bridge .......

You could have had X times 52 calories worth of delicious lettuce instead!


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## Feathers (Jun 14, 2021)

I'm kicking myself for not measuring ketones while I was on it. But hey ho, I measured everything else. And it's exciting that you only have 5 weeks more to go!


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## Weekender (Jun 14, 2021)

trophywench said:


> See - alcohol in the form of spirits albeit lower calories than a pint of brown and mild - has always been described as 'empty' calories because spirits have no actual nutritional value whatsoever - a pub measure (1/6 of a gill/25ml) is 52 cals and nobody on earth pours a pub measure freehand - so how many empty calories did you consume? - don't answer that, it's all pintini under the bridge .......
> 
> You could have had X times 52 calories worth of delicious lettuce instead!


You're right @trophywench  I don't drink spirits so I was just pouring from daughter's gin bottle into a flask with ice. I have no idea what quantity was . I'm hoping I come out the other side of the 12 weeks tee total.


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## Weekender (Jun 14, 2021)

Feathers said:


> I'm kicking myself for not measuring ketones while I was on it. But hey ho, I measured everything else. And it's exciting that you only have 5 weeks more to go!


I'm being extra stringent today as tomorrow is end of week three


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## trophywench (Jun 15, 2021)

Not having been in the sort of company that enjoys a regular drink for well over 6 months by now, I dunno whether we're tee total now or not.  It's a bit of a conundrum really as to whether we eschew it wholly or re-educate our bodies to happily accept an occasional bevy in future.  Danger is always temptation of course - whether a single 25ml measure will now render me legless ....... and is it worth actually breaching the as yet unopened litre of Bombay Sapphire just to test that out .......


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## Weekender (Jun 15, 2021)

trophywench said:


> Not having been in the sort of company that enjoys a regular drink for well over 6 months by now, I dunno whether we're tee total now or not.  It's a bit of a conundrum really as to whether we eschew it wholly or re-educate our bodies to happily accept an occasional bevy in future.  Danger is always temptation of course - whether a single 25ml measure will now render me legless ....... and is it worth actually breaching the as yet unopened litre of Bombay Sapphire just to test that out .......


I read that 30 days abstinence re-sets your alcohol tolerance, so that's a freebee from the diet. But I'd rather be alcohol free, I'm enjoying the effects of the diet on my energy levels


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## travellor (Jun 15, 2021)

Weekender said:


> Thanks - I've learned to take myself off if I get too hangry.
> 
> Prof Taylor recommends 'no breaks'. The theory goes : If you have too many carbs you stop being 'fat adapted' and it takes a few days after resuming the VLCD to get past the carb cravings and back to fat burning.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately that was my experience.
Either VLCD, or a longterm lifestyle.
It doesn't seem to be something you can duck in and out of, as that also leads to the classic yoyo diet, and this diet is also about breaking your mindset with food.

Now, I drink alcohol still, (probably too much during lockdown), I had a reset a few weeks ago, a VLCD again, but with food, about 1200 calories a day for 6 weeks, alcohol can't feature in that, it simply uses too much of the calorie allowance.
I have come from a lifestyle of jobs involving alcohol, entertaining customers, visiting suppliers, corporate work, and alcohol was always present. (Probably the lifestyle that led to me being diabetic!)


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## Weekender (Jun 15, 2021)

travellor said:


> Unfortunately that was my experience.
> Either VLCD, or a longterm lifestyle.
> It doesn't seem to be something you can duck in and out of, as that also leads to the classic yoyo diet, and this diet is also about breaking your mindset with food.
> 
> ...


Binge drinking was always my favourite evening pursuit. I retired a couple of years ago. This plus lockdown has meant having too many beers was always the default option. The diet is giving me the distance to think about it. I will need to find some activity or other to replace it. That and snacking in front of the TV. Since my blood sugars are lowered I now have the energy to do something less destructive.   
Interesting that you did a 6 week reset. I worry in case that option becomes my get out of jail free card - _eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die(t). _Did your blood sugars become unhealthy or was it a precaution?


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## travellor (Jun 15, 2021)

Weekender said:


> Binge drinking was always my favourite evening pursuit. I retired a couple of years ago. This plus lockdown has meant having too many beers was always the default option. The diet is giving me the distance to think about it. I will need to find some activity or other to replace it. That and snacking in front of the TV. Since my blood sugars are lowered I now have the energy to do something less destructive.
> Interesting that you did a 6 week reset. I worry in case that option becomes my get out of jail free card - _eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die(t). _Did your blood sugars become unhealthy or was it a precaution?


I just put on weight.
Missed the gym, didn't get the exercise, and the mirror was a pointer.
I'm still not perfect, but it was a good reset, and to be honest I am now in the hot tub with a glass of wine and a bowl of dorritoes, so I got away with it.


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## Feathers (Jun 21, 2021)

Monday check-in:
Weight - 18s 11lb
Fasting sugars - 8.5

Had a good week, but a bad weekend (well, a fun weekend, but a bad one for my weight and blood sugars!) Predictably, my weight is up and my fasting sugars are showing the results of last night's carbs.


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## Weekender (Jun 21, 2021)

Tubthumping https://g.co/kgs/XVmuPj
A blast of Chumbawamba will set you up for getting back up again


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## Weekender (Jun 21, 2021)

I'm on holiday for a few days. Fish fingers and half a chicken curry (+ 3 shakes) yesterday- but I didn't pack the scales. Damage report when I get home on Thursday


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## Weekender (Jun 21, 2021)

Obviously, not at the same time.


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## Feathers (Jun 21, 2021)

Was gonna say, bold food mix there!


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## Feathers (Jun 28, 2021)

I hate having to come back here and post this, but I also don't like how the internet tends to only see success stories, plus this is probably good accountability. So:

Fasting sugars - 8.8
Weight - 19st 5lb

I comfort ate a LOT this week. It was a miserable week. And now I've undone the progress I made. So that sucks.

Going to aim for 1200 today, and see how I get on.


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## grovesy (Jun 28, 2021)

Feathers said:


> I hate having to come back here and post this, but I also don't like how the internet tends to only see success stories, plus this is probably good accountability. So:
> 
> Fasting sugars - 8.8
> Weight - 19st 5lb
> ...


I comfort eat to at times, and after been Diabetic for years, I aim to be more on the wagon than off.


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## Weekender (Jun 28, 2021)

I think you're right to share the set backs / reality of the challenge.
I find the metaphor of conscious rider and the unconscious elephant helpful. Video  In fact I said to Mrs W last night - "the elephant is in control"  - as I demolished a packet of ham at 9:30 pm.
If external factors are causing stress / unhappiness perhaps the path isn't clear enough at the moment to allow you to lead the elephant


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## Feathers (Jun 28, 2021)

That's a brilliant metaphor, thank you!


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## Nayshiftin (Jul 14, 2021)

Feathers said:


> I hate having to come back here and post this, but I also don't like how the internet tends to only see success stories, plus this is probably good accountability. So:
> 
> Fasting sugars - 8.8
> Weight - 19st 5lb
> ...


Thank you I started of high and am lower now but you are amazing to be so honest. Well done you. I was 18 10 to start I am 16 4 now . Blood sugars were HbA1c 76  blood sugars 16.5 but not fasting and having 2nd on Friday so I'll let you know my blood sugar results next week. I am struggling between 1200 and trying to be low carb too. I adore carbs so much, Out to lunch today so no doubt 17 stone lol hope not tomorrow. I'll try be good.


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