# Scary stuff



## Quattro (Dec 4, 2019)

Hi all,

I lost a close family member 2 1/2 months ago and found myself losing weight afterwards, now 2 stone. I feel fine, in fact I feel much better than I did two months ago, physically that is. Well I would as I'm overweight by 2 stone less than I was.

As I was also getting some lower leg numbness, and a dry mouth, I got some blood tests done to be sure, and found I have a fasting glucose level of 18, and that's apparently not good. 

I have been phoning my local surgery but they're not answering the phone, nothing weird there, they are terrible.

I am wanting to do something quickly to try and help myself prior to the GP filling my veins with drugs, if he ever answers the phone. What can I do about diet, exercise, etc

I am assuming I stop eating sweet stuff altogether, get some walking done etc, or is 18 too high to control it through exercise alone?

Bit scary this, I only found out about an hour ago


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## rebrascora (Dec 4, 2019)

Hi and welcome to our community.

I am sorry to hear of your loss and now your suspected diabetes. 18 is a pretty high fasting reading although some of us have been higher. You need to cut down on all carbs not just the obvious sweet stuff. In some respects the starchy carbs from bread, pasta rice potatoes and breakfast cereals can be worse because those carbs release over a much longer period... it can be 8-10 hours, so the Blood Glucose rise (spike) from a meal containing them will piggy back onto the spike from the previous meal, making your BG go progressively higher. Your body will try to eliminate the excess glucose via your kidneys (ie you will wee more frequently and (consequently be thirsty s lot) and there will likely be glucose in your urine. If the glucose in your system reaches a point that it becomes toxic you will become ill quite quickly and it is very serious and you would need hospital treatment to save your life if that were to occur.... it is called DKA (Diabetic Ketoacidosis) Your kidneys can only eliminate so much glucose before they get overwhelmed, so it is important to get an appointment asap. In the mean time drink plenty of water, cut right back on all carbs *and go to hospital* if you start to feel unwell. The high sugar levels also put you at risk of infections so be conscious of that possibility.... urinary infections and skin infections are common. Keep a particularly keen eye on your feet for any signs of infection.
Your sudden weight loss suggests that you might in fact be Type 1 diabetic rather than Type 2 but they will likely assume you are Type 2 due to your age....many GPs wrongly believe that Type 1 only exhibits in children and young people but it is much more common in older people than they might think. If that is the case you will require insulin but they will probably start you on Type 2 medication of Metformin and maybe Gliclazide. I appreciate that you want to avoid taking medication but it may be beneficial in these early stages and perhaps look at stopping them later when your levels have reduced. My gut feeling is that you will probably need insulin because I think you are Type 1 from the information you have given but hopefully I will be wrong.


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## rebrascora (Dec 4, 2019)

PS. If you are wondering what else is left to eat when you take out bread rice pasta potatoes and breakfast cereal as well as cakes and biscuits and sweets (and you need to be very careful with fruit and avoid fruit juice and smoothies altogether) the following foods are all very low carb and can therefore be eaten without any great concern...
Meat, fish, eggs, full fat dairy, mushrooms, nuts and seeds and most importantly leafy green veg, cauliflower and broccoli. I add a good knob of butter or dollop of full fat cream cheese to cabbage, spinach, kale etc during cooking to make them extra tasty. Cauliflower cheese is lovely and you can also mash it to top a cottage pie or have with high meat content sausages, or chop it finely (or buy it ready chopped) as cauliflower rice to have instead of the real thing with curry etc.
Omelettes with mushrooms, onions, ham, tomatoes etc (take your choice)  make a nice breakfast or lunch. I always have them with a large side salad. A cooked English Breakfast (no toast or hash browns or baked beans) is also a good low carb option but probably not ideal to have it every morning. Kippers are also good but the temptation is to have bread with them which is less good..... There are low carb bread options available in the supermarkets if you look out for them. I believe LivLife is one brand or Bergen but many supermarkets do their own brand variety. You still need to be prudent and keep consumption of them to a minimum.

Hope the above gives you some ideas of how to go on with food, but please do push to get an appointment ASAP or you could end up in hospital.
Not sure if your surgery operate an online service like mine so but if so, use that route. The system is called "Ask my GP" and you fill in an online form with your symptoms and the GP emails you back. Mine made me an appointment with the nurse for a blood test the following day and I was started on medication 2 days later when the results came back. That was back in February and it took till April to start me on Insulin and June before I was tested and confirmed Type 1. By then I was well into eating very low carb but my pancreas was slowly running dry of insulin, even for the very small amounts of carbs I was eating and converting to glucose and it became essential to start injecting it.


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## rebrascora (Dec 4, 2019)

PPS. Walking is an excellent form of exercise for lowering your BG levels, so it is great that you are doing that.


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## Pine Marten (Dec 4, 2019)

Hi @Quattro, I too am sorry to hear about your bereavement.

I don't have much to add to rebrascora's good advice except to say welcome to the forum! Come back and let us know how you get on and if we can answer any questions. All the best to you.


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## Lilian (Dec 4, 2019)

Welcome Quattro.    Sympathies on the death of a loved one.    It could be that which has caused the weight loss.    One tends to lose one's appetite when something like this happens without even realising it.     All good advice here about veering towards a low carbohydrate way of eating.    It is a matter of learning what foods contain the most carbohydrates especially the ones where you  think are quite innocent which turn out to be much higher in carbs than you thought.


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## mikeyB (Dec 4, 2019)

Welcome to the forum, Quattro.

My sympathies on your bereavement.

I doubt very much that has anything to do with your weight loss other than the stress triggering the diabetes.

You clearly have diabetes. Whether Type 1 or Type 2 with a fasting glucose of 18 you are close to dangerous territory. See a doctor as soon as possible, drink plenty of water. You need to be seen as soon as possible. Ignore any dietary advice above, and the only exercise you should get today is going to the doctor or A&E.Do NOT delay.

That's basically what Rebrascora said, abbreviated to avoid any indecision.


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## AJLang (Dec 4, 2019)

Echoing what MikeyB has said you need to be seen by a medical professional urgently.  18 is a high level and if it gets higher you could have really serious problems quickly. Not wanting to alarm you but encourage you to act quickly.  Please let us know how you get on.


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## AJLang (Dec 4, 2019)

Also if your blood sugar levels are too high then they can cause ketones - the advice then is to not exercise because that could be dangerous, even when on insulin, until levels are lower.  But obviously this is dependent upon whether you are Type 1 or Type 2.


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## AJLang (Dec 4, 2019)

But once your diabetes is controlled then it will not be too bad  to live with- I've been living with it for 48 years!


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## Drummer (Dec 4, 2019)

The blood test I had which diagnosed diabetes included a random blood glucose of 17.1mmol/l and I managed to lower it to normal quite quickly by reducing the carbohydrate I was eating, replacing them with protein and fat. I was soon of no further interest to my doctor. I feel so much better not eating the stodge.


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## Robin (Dec 4, 2019)

Drummer said:


> The blood test I had which diagnosed diabetes included a random blood glucose of 17.1mmol/l and I managed to lower it to normal quite quickly by reducing the carbohydrate I was eating, replacing them with protein and fat. I was soon of no further interest to my doctor. I feel so much better not eating the stodge.


Yes, I had a random blood test of just over 16, and I reduced my carbs.... Made absolutely no difference, and my Blood glucose continued to rise, because I turned out to be Type 1. 
All we are saying is that @Quattro needs to be vigilant in case it turns out to be type 1, which is very dangerous if left too long.


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## Drummer (Dec 4, 2019)

Duh - sorry I missed out the most important bit - yes - type twos see swift changes changing diet (exercise can help but it isn't all that significant) but it isn't just sweet things - carbohydrates are sugars and starches - bread and potatoes are just as significant as sugary foods.
Low carb can help in the early stages of other types of diabetes, maybe - but medication is the only option in the long term, and testing blood glucose and proper diagnosis are the best course of action.


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## Quattro (Dec 4, 2019)

Many thanks for all of the help.

Well, I gave up phoning the Doctor and just went to the surgery. I asked if they weren't answering the phone today but she ignored that and asked what I wanted. I asked to make an appointment and she said the best they could do was two weeks. I opened the folded up piece of paper in my hand and showed her the blood test results and said, "I don't think so." 

Things then changed and I got an appointment straight away, the doctor went through the results, examined me, and now wants me to have a scan to check out my pancreas. She doesn't think there's anything wrong with it, but just to be safe. I was quite shocked at their response to this as they really are quite shocking usually.

5 years ago, I had gout and managed to get rid of this miserable affliction by adjusting my diet. I have found the worst of the gout triggers are cauliflower, oats, oily fish, and mushrooms which I now avoid, and have not had gout for several years. So, cauliflower cheese, and mushroom omelettes are out 

I feel a learning curve coming


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## Ljc (Dec 4, 2019)

Hi . It sounds like the GP you saw today is at least a bit more on the ball.  As you can see , some of us are concerned about what type of diabetes you have. 
Quite a few on here were originally diagnosed  with T2 just because they were adults and or overweight, which later turned out to be wrong.  I am not saying you are or could have T1 but just in case you are, an undiagnosed T1 can deteriorate very quickly , so if you start to feel very unwell, don’t bother with Gp you need A&E fast .

Has your Gp arranged for you to see the practice nurse that deals with diabetes.


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## Drummer (Dec 4, 2019)

Oh - drat - mushroom omelettes and cauliflower cheese are some of the highlights of my menus, as are kippers once in a while. 
Oats now - nasty things and best avoided completely.
There are quite a few other things to eat though, so not a disaster.
However - I did have a nasty experience with gout once, but found a mix of frozen fruit which included cherries, and that seemed to sort it out - apparently there is something in them which binds with the problematic substance and carries it off out of the body. I was called back to see the nurse and just about accused of wasting their time following up what must have been something insignificant (I just don't get on with HCPs)


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## Ljc (Dec 5, 2019)

I am not fond of mushroom omelettes even though I love mushrooms, however I adore a cheese one, or even better with cheese and onions, I fry the onions first then add them to the mix. I always add a dash or three of Worcestershire sauce. I do a mean scrambled egg too .

We have a long running thread you might be interested in where we shine our halos and bare our sins 
what-did-you-eat-yesterday
We also have some innovative cooks on here who tempt us with these delights 
recipes.


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## rebrascora (Dec 5, 2019)

So pleased you went along to the docs and got seen..... well done for standing your ground and not letting them fob you off. I understand that they are seriously overworked but it really is ridiculous when you can't get an appointment for 2 weeks. I hope they have started you on some medication as well as sending you for a pancreas scan. Hopefully that will not show anything amiss and diabetes will be your only problem to deal with. Please keep us updated with how you get on and feel free to ask anything you don't understand. The first few months of diabetes can be a bit overwhelming and there is a lot to take in, so we are here to fill in any gaps that the Health Care Professionals skip over or you don't pick up on. They often give erroneous advice on diet which can be confusing/unhelpful. The advice on this forum has been far more effective than any I received from the NHS. .


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## Quattro (Dec 6, 2019)

More blood tests today at the GP. Nurse asked what advice/meds I had been out on, - I replied, "None." I added that the only info I had received was from the internet and I was going to stop eating sugary foods, starchy stuff like bread and potatoes. She seemed shocked and said it was just sugar I should avoid, carbs were fine. I have started a low carb diet and will continue with it.

The practice nurse did say that they would phone me tomorrow when they got the results, then hopefully get the ball rolling.

The hospital phoned regarding a scan for my pancreas, and asked me to go down there on Monday, so that's good. I asked if they were doing a scan, but they told me they just wanted to discuss it


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## Martin9 (Dec 6, 2019)

Quattro said:


> More blood tests today at the GP. Nurse asked what advice/meds I had been out on, - I replied, "None." I added that the only info I had received was from the internet and I was going to stop eating sugary foods, starchy stuff like bread and potatoes. She seemed shocked and said it was just sugar I should avoid, carbs were fine. I have started a low carb diet and will continue with it.
> 
> The practice nurse did say that they would phone me tomorrow when they got the results, then hopefully get the ball rolling.
> 
> The hospital phoned regarding a scan for my pancreas, and asked me to go down there on Monday, so that's good. I asked if they were doing a scan, but they told me they just wanted to discuss it


That’s shocking advice from a practice nurse..


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## Drummer (Dec 6, 2019)

Shocking and disgraceful ignorance.


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## grovesy (Dec 6, 2019)

I have seen 2 different Diabetic Nurses at my surgery this year and both are saying it is now recommend  for Type 2 to low carb. So the message is changing. They are both newish to my surgery.


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## Ljc (Dec 6, 2019)

I agree that is shocking advise , with advise like that no wonder their are so many with T2 who end up in a sorry state.
Yes the word is getting out their, my newish nurse knows it’s about carbs and not just sugar.


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## Quattro (Dec 7, 2019)

So, Friday came and went, no phone call with blood results as promised.

I have changed my diet and am limiting carbs. Had some greek yogurt (3% carb) with fresh strawberries for lunch, and a carvery for tea - pork, carrots, green beans, cauliflower cheese (just a small amount), red cabbage, and some gravy. Half a lager; I usually have a pint. Also went for a brisk two mile walk today.

I don't really know what else to do until my tester gets here on Monday. I do have an appointment with a consultant at the hospital on Monday. I contacted my health insurance on Monday 2nd December and feel I haven't got anywhere at all yet, except finding out that I have a very high BG level, and am Diabetic. A whole week gone and no help from my GP or health insurance.

My health insurance is a company one, with twelve people on it, so is quite a lot of money. 

Many thanks for the help on here, it really is the only advice I have been given, it is much appreciated.


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## Ljc (Dec 7, 2019)

I know it’s so worrying when you just don’t have the info and support from the medics etc you need when first diagnose.  I hope your practice gets its act together soon.
I don’t know if your in the uk, if so , your Gp practice may have what’s called, Patient access , its an online service,  Ive also signed up on it to view my medical records ,so I can look up my test results.
Here is some info
https://support.patientaccess.com/registration

I know you think you are flying blind right now but by joining here you have found a fount of knowledge about diabetes,  .  I was diagnosed in 94 and only joined this forum in 2016 , April 1st to be exact  and although I knew a lot when I joined, my knowledge and diabetes control improved oh so much, these guys even helped me through a difficult time when I went  on insulin as *imo *my practice nurse at that time knew diddly squat about insulin.
Did I read your getting a glucose meter on Monday, that is great, you’ll find it a great help in discovering what carbs you can tolerate and those you need to reduce or cut out, this is something that is so individual.


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## grovesy (Dec 7, 2019)

Different surgeries use different systems. Not all surgeries allow blood results.


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## Ljc (Dec 7, 2019)

grovesy said:


> Different surgeries use different systems. Not all surgeries allow blood results.


That’s true, I am glad mine does though.


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## Martin9 (Dec 7, 2019)

You need a diagnosis of your type of diabetes, then advice can be tailored to your specific.type of diabetes, while some advice overlaps, there are areas in which the advice is specific only to your type of diabetes 
Regards
M.


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## Drummer (Dec 7, 2019)

Why only a small amount of cauliflower cheese - made with just those ingredients, it is a perfectly good thing to eat...
It is when the recipe calls for carby ingredients that the trouble can start.
Start with cauliflower. add cream cheese, then some cheese, and maybe more cheese - no problem.


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## silentsquirrel (Dec 8, 2019)

Drummer said:


> Why only a small amount of cauliflower cheese - made with just those ingredients, it is a perfectly good thing to eat...
> It is when the recipe calls for carby ingredients that the trouble can start.
> Start with cauliflower. add cream cheese, then some cheese, and maybe more cheese - no problem.


Quattro explains in post 14, Drummer - he has found cauliflower a trigger for gout.

Carvery meal choice sounds good, @Quattro, well done for trying the small amount of cauli cheese, hope you tolerated it well.


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## Quattro (Feb 19, 2020)

Wow, has it been that long since I was on here ? 

So, massive learning curve.

I got to see the Diabetic Clinic at the Northern General Hospital on 27th Dec, and found them to be absolutely brilliant. They took some more blood to test and found my HbA1c to be 100, it was 133 at the beginning of December, so going the right way.

They thought it would be Type 2, but started me on Insulin to be sure until they got an actual diagnosis. They got this 15th January and I'm type 1. I asked for a recount but they told me they test for a certain antibody which should be between 0 and 5. Mine was >2,000, so fairly conclusive .

28th Jan they took more blood and my HbA1c had dropped to 69, then yesterday they took even more blood (I'm wondering how much more I have) and it's now 55. Very pleased with this, I have a target of 48 so should't be long now.

I am on 10 units of Levemir at night and now 4 in the morning (I started with 10 but they have reduced it as my BG lever is often below 5 at 5.00pm when I want to drive home). I am now carb counting and injecting 1 unit of Humalog for every 10g of carb I eat. This is working well, and my BG has been between 4.2 and 7.5 for the last 4 weeks.

Cholesterol is dropping slowly as well, as I do apparently have a fatty liver, so I am being careful with saturated fats, and have lost some weight as well.

Life is pretty much back to normal except that I have to inject myself in the belly at least 5 times a day ( I hate needles), and have to check my BG every time I want to drive a car, and then every two hours. But on the plus side, I am a lot fitter, a lot lighter and know a lot more about how bits work, or are supposed to work 

Richard


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## Toucan (Feb 19, 2020)

Hello @Quattro and welcome back 
Good to hear that you eventually got your diagnosis sorted out, and that you are coming to terms with the changes so well.


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## Neens (Feb 19, 2020)

Quattro said:


> Wow, has it been that long since I was on here ?
> 
> So, massive learning curve.
> 
> ...


These are great results - well done. Keep going - glad you got the help you needed after such a scary start. We were diagnosed on the same day.


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## stephknits (Feb 19, 2020)

Glad you got your diagnosis sorted out finally!  Are you under the hospital diabetes team or the GP?  Excellent bs readings by the way.


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## Quattro (Feb 19, 2020)

Thanks for the comments guys n gals.

I am still under the Diabetes and Endocrine Centre's care at the Hospital. They don't seem in any hurry to get rid of me, so as they are soooo much better than my GP, I'll stay with them.


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## trophywench (Feb 19, 2020)

You'll never be free of em!  A diabetics best mates.  After all GPs aren't even supposed to be specialists in any medical condition, think about it, why is it called 'General' practice? LOL

There are other bits of you which are easy enough to get to, to jab in.  eg the evening and first thing in the morning Levemir could just as easily go in your outer thighs - suggest you keep the muscles relaxed when you do it though else it will most likely hurt - belly's the same though for that.


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## Ljc (Feb 20, 2020)

I am so glad you have finally got the correct diagnosis .
I thought you might like to see a diagram of other areas suitable for injection insulin





__





						insulin injection sites - Google Search
					





					www.google.co.uk


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## Quattro (Feb 20, 2020)

I started off with the thighs as I really couldn't bring myself to inject myself in the belly <shudder>.

I tried it a couple of times but couldn't watch at the same time. To be honest, it didn't hurt but I really wasn't comfortable with it. After stabbing myself in the finger a couple of times, I forced myself to watch (It did hurt in the side of the finger  ). I am now able to inject into some spare belly fat every time, and watch at the same time. Still a little hesitant, but I am getting there. Feel the fear and do it anyway 

At the hospital on Tuesday I actually watched when they took some blood samples, although it did make me a little faint headed.


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## trophywench (Feb 20, 2020)

Well you're lucky not being diagnosed until you were already past your youth.  As a child my mother wouldn't stand for either of her daughters making a fuss about medical procedures so we both soon learned not to.  Hence aged 22, I just had to get used to it and since I already had a life (in the terms of 'get a life!' LOL) that I wished to continue with, I did so.

If little kids can cope with it - and they do - so can you.


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