# New and about to start low calorie liquid diet



## Lordy48

Hi!
I was diagnosed with diabetes last summer. I am morbidly obese and very aware my lifestyle has caused this so wasn’t a big surprise! I was started on Metformin and changed my diet, managed to loose 15kg, however Metformin and me didn’t turn out to be friends. I had really bad gastrointestinal issues with it, even on the slow release one. So the nurse told me to stop it before Christmas. I am now about to start the very low calorie liquid diet that can put diabetes into remission, after being referred by my gp. It’s 12 weeks of only shakes and soups provided by them, 4 a day, and then after slowly reintroducing food. I am aware this isn’t going to be easy or a quick fix but I am very determined to give it a go. Has anyone else done this diet or in the process of doing it? There’s plenty information online about the study (DiRect), but I’m just trying to see if there’s any patients feed back about their experiences on it? I’m planning to share my experiences while I am on it - sure their will be plenty of rants but hopefully some positive feed back about the changes and feeling better. Would love to hear about anyone’s experiences on it. Thanks!


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## Drummer

I stopped taking Metformin for similar reasons to yourself, just before Christmas 2016 and it was a great relief.
I  ate low carb from the moment I was diagnosed, and was no longer diabetic (Hba1c of 47) after 80 days. I ate ordinary foods, not a liquid diet, so I can't help with that - though I was working at a firm in the English Midlands where the diet which Dr Howard developed for his patients was mixed and packaged, back in the 1970s. It became the Cambridge diet.


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## SB2015

Welcome to the forum @Lordy48 

Good to hear that your GP is supporting you in getting to grips with your Diabetes.i don’t have any experience of using specific diets, but there may be others who have.  My focus is just knowing the carbs that I am eating in order to be able to calculate my correct insulin doses, which will then deal with the glucose from any carbs that I eat.

Keep in touch, ask any questions that you have, or just have a good rant when you need to.


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## Eddy Edson

Lordy48 said:


> Hi!
> I was diagnosed with diabetes last summer. I am morbidly obese and very aware my lifestyle has caused this so wasn’t a big surprise! I was started on Metformin and changed my diet, managed to loose 15kg, however Metformin and me didn’t turn out to be friends. I had really bad gastrointestinal issues with it, even on the slow release one. So the nurse told me to stop it before Christmas. I am now about to start the very low calorie liquid diet that can put diabetes into remission, after being referred by my gp. It’s 12 weeks of only shakes and soups provided by them, 4 a day, and then after slowly reintroducing food. I am aware this isn’t going to be easy or a quick fix but I am very determined to give it a go. Has anyone else done this diet or in the process of doing it? There’s plenty information online about the study (DiRect), but I’m just trying to see if there’s any patients feed back about their experiences on it? I’m planning to share my experiences while I am on it - sure their will be plenty of rants but hopefully some positive feed back about the changes and feeling better. Would love to hear about anyone’s experiences on it. Thanks!


@travellor was one of the original DiRECT trial participants & did really well with it, but I haven't seen him around here in a while.

I didn't find out about this strategy until I was along with weight loss & I was finding it fairly easy to keep grinding off a half a kilo per week. Accomplished the same thing in the end - remission, reversal, whatever you want to call it, via weight loss.  

Prof Roy Taylor, the main DiRECT investigator, says that it doesn't really matter how you achieve weight loss and then keep from putting it back on. For some people, an intense VLCD period followed by "sensible" eating works best, others (like me) are fine with something more gradual.  

Good luck!


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## ColinUK

I’ve used Exante products before and am about to embark on another period of using them again.


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## rebrascora

Hi and welcome.

Good luck with your weight loss project. One of our regular members @ColinUK is going back to the Exante shakes diet starting today, so you may want to compare notes with him and hopefully he will be along soon, now that I have tagged him and perhaps link you to his thread about his trials with it.


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## rebrascora

Whoops.... Colin found you already whilst I was typing...


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## ColinUK

My thread is here http://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/weight-loss-ups-and-downs-800-calorie-newcastle.84706/

I’ve not been prescribed anything but I know it works.
What have you been prescribed?


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## Lian1979

ColinUK said:


> I’ve used Exante products before and am about to embark on another period of using them again.


Hi Colin is Exante ok for diabetes ? i was going to use it for occasional meals too but was worried about carb intake ??


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## ColinUK

Lian1979 said:


> Hi Colin is Exante ok for diabetes ? i was going to use it for occasional meals too but was worried about carb intake ??



Because it’s so low calorie it’s ok. Yes it’s a little carby but it is one of the recommended products for VLCD regimes for T2 weight loss.
Just avoid all of the soups and the coffee walnut shake as they’re vile.


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## Lian1979

ColinUK said:


> Because it’s so low calorie it’s ok. Yes it’s a little carby but it is one of the recommended products for VLCD regimes for T2 weight loss.
> Just avoid all of the soups and the coffee walnut shake as they’re vile.


oh wonderful thankyou!! ive done it before along time ago now but i quite liked the shakes so thats great thankyou for replying


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## ColinUK

Lian1979 said:


> oh wonderful thankyou!! ive done it before along time ago now but i quite liked the shakes so thats great thankyou for replying


Do you want a referral code or do you still have an account?

And don’t forget to link your nectar card as you get triple points I think. 
Also they have a discount for those with diabetes but the code/method is buried on their website so you have to search for it. They send you a single use code I think.


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## ColinUK




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## Lian1979

ColinUK said:


> Do you want a referral code or do you still have an account?
> 
> And don’t forget to link your nectar card as you get triple points I think.
> Also they have a discount for those with diabetes but the code/method is buried on their website so you have to search for it. They send you a single use code I think.


oooh never knew about these discounts !!! i will have to hunt for the diabetes one !! whats a referral code by the way ?!


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## travellor

Eddy Edson said:


> @travellor was one of the original DiRECT trial participants & did really well with it, but I haven't seen him around here in a while.
> 
> I didn't find out about this strategy until I was along with weight loss & I was finding it fairly easy to keep grinding off a half a kilo per week. Accomplished the same thing in the end - remission, reversal, whatever you want to call it, via weight loss.
> 
> Prof Roy Taylor, the main DiRECT investigator, says that it doesn't really matter how you achieve weight loss and then keep from putting it back on. For some people, an intense VLCD period followed by "sensible" eating works best, others (like me) are fine with something more gradual.
> 
> Good luck!


I decided to take a break for a while, (probably the bombardment of low carb into every low calorie thread to be honest, as that never worked for me, but that's a personal opinion)

I wasn't actually one of the trial participants, but I did see the Newcastle diet results, as they were well televised just when I was diagnosed. My doctor supported me doing this, so I went for it as to me that was the only proven, researched, diet that appeared to have a positive effect on diabetes, and involved a short intervention in diet, not a complete lifestyle change for the rest of your life.
I have a lifestyle that involved grabbing food on the go, eating out, and I wanted to continue with that lifestyle. 
So including a sandwich from Tesco's, a bag of crisps, and a bag of chips and mainstream restaurant meals had to stay on the menu.

Professor Taylor noticed that bariatric surgery patients seemed to reverse their diabetes, from losing weight prior to surgery. 
This was on a very low calorie diet, consisting of diet shakes.
He trialled this onto morbidly obese diabetic patients, with a good result.

I decided to repeat the diet, using the diet he had proven to work.
I used Tesco shakes, they were very close in composition to the trial shakes.
I lost the weight, I reversed my diabetes.
I also found I could exercise better, and (until the lockdown) kept this up, and found this was also very good for my blood sugar.
I found the effect of stopping eating had the beneficial side effect of changing my relationship with food, it was very easy to eat the same food as before, but only when I needed to, rather than over eating and putting weight back on.
Also I stopped eating sweet foods, and switched to savoury.
(Steak bake from Greggs, not the donut now)


It does appear, when questioned about weight loss, Professor Taylor was asked if diabetics had to use shakes, or would other ways to lose weight work. His answer was something like, he had only trialled the shakes, but any weight loss would obviously be beneficial. 
This was immediately picked up by many writing books to sell other diets, some which have worked on some people, some which you need to keep on for life, some which have had no effects.
I have also, anecdotally, noticed that losing weight quickly, rather than slowly, seems to have had a more significant effect on the reversal of diabetes, for those who continue with a high carb diet later. But again, that is purely opinion.
But the other trials of the Newcastle diet. based on the same shake style diet, have appeared to reinforced the first trial, and no other results appear from different diets that don't involve a specialist way of eating for life later have been published.
So I would say you are definitely on the right course, just don't be tempted to alter the diet, don't add anything, and finish the course, then refer back to the doctor for the follow up diet sheet, which is the normal, NHS, healthy food options.

I reversed my diabetes this way, and it certainly changed my life.


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## Lian1979

travellor said:


> I decided to take a break for a while, (probably the bombardment of low carb into every low calorie thread to be honest, as that never worked for me, but that's a personal opinion)
> 
> I wasn't actually one of the trial participants, but I did see the Newcastle diet results, as they were well televised just when I was diagnosed. My doctor supported me doing this, so I went for it as to me that was the only proven, researched, diet that appeared to have a positive effect on diabetes, and involved a short intervention in diet, not a complete lifestyle change for the rest of your life.
> I have a lifestyle that involved grabbing food on the go, eating out, and I wanted to continue with that lifestyle.
> So including a sandwich from Tesco's, a bag of crisps, and a bag of chips and mainstream restaurant meals had to stay on the menu.
> 
> Professor Taylor noticed that bariatric surgery patients seemed to reverse their diabetes, from losing weight prior to surgery.
> This was on a very low calorie diet, consisting of diet shakes.
> He trialled this onto morbidly obese diabetic patients, with a good result.
> 
> I decided to repeat the diet, using the diet he had proven to work.
> I used Tesco shakes, they were very close in composition to the trial shakes.
> I lost the weight, I reversed my diabetes.
> I also found I could exercise better, and (until the lockdown) kept this up, and found this was also very good for my blood sugar.
> I found the effect of stopping eating had the beneficial side effect of changing my relationship with food, it was very easy to eat the same food as before, but only when I needed to, rather than over eating and putting weight back on.
> Also I stopped eating sweet foods, and switched to savoury.
> (Steak bake from Greggs, not the donut now)
> 
> 
> It does appear, when questioned about weight loss, Professor Taylor was asked if diabetics had to use shakes, or would other ways to lose weight work. His answer was something like, he had only trialled the shakes, but any weight loss would obviously be beneficial.
> This was immediately picked up by many writing books to sell other diets, some which have worked on some people, some which you need to keep on for life, some which have had no effects.
> I have also, anecdotally, noticed that losing weight quickly, rather than slowly, seems to have had a more significant effect on the reversal of diabetes, for those who continue with a high carb diet later. But again, that is purely opinion.
> But the other trials of the Newcastle diet. based on the same shake style diet, have appeared to reinforced the first trial, and no other results appear from different diets that don't involve a specialist way of eating for life later have been published.
> So I would say you are definitely on the right course, just don't be tempted to alter the diet, don't add anything, and finish the course, then refer back to the doctor for the follow up diet sheet, which is the normal, NHS, healthy food options.
> 
> I reversed my diabetes this way, and it certainly changed my life.


This is amazing thankyou so much for replying and congratulations on reversing it what an achievement


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## Eddy Edson

travellor said:


> I decided to take a break for a while, (probably the bombardment of low carb into every low calorie thread to be honest, as that never worked for me, but that's a personal opinion)


Yep, the normal Internet echo-chamber evolution, unfortunately.


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## ColinUK

Lian1979 said:


> oooh never knew about these discounts !!! i will have to hunt for the diabetes one !! whats a referral code by the way ?!


This is the stuff about the referral code... basically you recommend someone, they get a discount and you get a discount




My referral code is COLIN-R91 so you enter that in the relevant field when you register. 

And Nectar are currently doing 6x points per £1 spent at exante if you go via their website (and have a nectar card obviously).


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## ColinUK

@Lian1979  I’ve just been sent this link... It’s a link to the page where you can verify having diabetes. 

If you sign up that way then I get £100 discount. I think.

Get a discount
https://secure.gocertify.me/at/exante/diabetes?gcref=eb270327


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## Lian1979

ColinUK said:


> This is the stuff about the referral code... basically you recommend someone, they get a discount and you get a discount
> 
> 
> View attachment 16153
> 
> My referral code is COLIN-R91 so you enter that in the relevant field when you register.
> 
> And Nectar are currently doing 6x points per £1 spent at exante if you go via their website (and have a nectar card obviously).


i don’t honestly know if i am registered or not  i will check it out but thanks so much for all this info and help i really appreciate it i will definitely use the referral code if it turns out im not registered!! i don’t have a nectar card unfortunately!!!!


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## travellor

Lian1979 said:


> Hi Colin is Exante ok for diabetes ? i was going to use it for occasional meals too but was worried about carb intake ??



Although this was directed at Colin, and I didn't look at Exante, I will chip in if you don't mind.

The Tesco shakes I used were 21g of carbs when made up.
That was is 201 calories.
So your body will be way in deficit of energy, and converting any foodsfuff as best it can.
(I did exercise to maintain muscle tone, as muscle will be converted with fat off your body otherwise)

And as this was the format of the original Newcastle Diet, the carbs aren't of any consideration.
They weren't of any issue in the original diet, and that was what I based my results on.

If you are going to reverse your diabetes, by definition, your body must be able to manage carbs, but at this moment, for some reason, it is failing to. 
So, you eat carbs as part of the diet. If the diet works, your body will manage these carbs. 
If it doesn't work, your body has issues beyond the internal fat that this diet removes. 

Indeed, if your  pancreatic islets are surrounded with fat that stops them working effectively, I considered that actually making them try would help expel any plugs of fat out of them, as opposed to trying to make what was a low calorie diet into a low carb diet, and deliberately not exercising my pancreatic islets and getting a false result.

(Another myth that quite often used to pop up is you need to add a spoonful of oil to the shakes, or you'll destroy your gall bladder. No one has in any trial, and to be honest, if you add 120 calories of oil in, after a couple of spoonfuls you've destroyed the balanced diet, which does actually already include a normal amount of fat, as now you need to leave a shake out, which is losing the nutrients, vitamins and the meal, just to turn it into a high fat diet)


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## ColinUK

travellor said:


> Although this was directed at Colin, and I didn't look at Exante, I will chip in if you don't mind.
> 
> The Tesco shakes I used were 21g of carbs when made up.
> That was is 201 calories.
> So your body will be way in deficit of energy, and converting any foodsfuff as best it can.
> (I did exercise to maintain muscle tone, as muscle will be converted with fat off your body otherwise)
> 
> And as this was the format of the original Newcastle Diet, the carbs aren't of any consideration.
> They weren't of any issue in the original diet, and that was what I based my results on.
> 
> If you are going to reverse your diabetes, by definition, your body must be able to manage carbs, but at this moment, for some reason, it is failing to.
> So, you eat carbs as part of the diet. If the diet works, your body will manage these carbs.
> If it doesn't work, your body has issues beyond the internal fat that this diet removes.
> 
> Indeed, if your  pancreatic islets are surrounded with fat that stops them working effectively, I considered that actually making them try would help expel any plugs of fat out of them, as opposed to trying to make what was a low calorie diet into a low carb diet, and deliberately not exercising my pancreatic islets and getting a false result.
> 
> (Another myth that quite often used to pop up is you need to add a spoonful of oil to the shakes, or you'll destroy your gall bladder. No one has in any trial, and to be honest, if you add 120 calories of oil in, after a couple of spoonfuls you've destroyed the balanced diet, which does actually already include a normal amount of fat, as now you need to leave a shake out, which is losing the nutrients, vitamins and the meal, just to turn it into a high fat diet)


Absolutely there’s no need to add anything to any of the recommended brand products. 
I do sometimes add a spoonful of instant coffee powder or a dash of cream to mine however. Yes the cream will increase the calorie count but if I’m having 600 calories of shakes during a day then a little cream isn’t going to derail the process.


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## travellor

ColinUK said:


> Absolutely there’s no need to add anything to any of the recommended brand products.
> I do sometimes add a spoonful of instant coffee powder or a dash of cream to mine however. Yes the cream will increase the calorie count but if I’m having 600 calories of shakes during a day then a little cream isn’t going to derail the process.


70 cal in a tablespoonful. So those three dashes could well be the same as an extra fourth shake!
I even switched to black coffee, as 100ml of even skimmed milk was an extra 35 calories.

But not in the shakes for me, I liked the vanilla just as it was mostly, although the strawberry and chocolate were ok too.
I think that is part of the mental change the diet causes. The shakes are repetitive, so it does alter the "pickiness" over food that I had, ie in expecting food to be a flavoursome treat, that I could keep enjoying.
Not that it isn't now, but I had a reset, so I could select foods I enjoyed that would far better for me when I came off the diet. And swapped sweet for savoury without feeling I was missing anything.


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## ColinUK

travellor said:


> 70 cal in a tablespoonful. So those three dashes could well be the same as an extra fourth shake!
> I even switched to black coffee, as 100ml of even skimmed milk was an extra 35 calories.
> 
> But not in the shakes for me, I liked the vanilla just as it was mostly, although the strawberry and chocolate were ok too.
> I think that is part of the mental change the diet causes. The shakes are repetitive, so it does alter the "pickiness" over food that I had, ie in expecting food to be a flavoursome treat, that I could keep enjoying.
> Not that it isn't now, but I had a reset, so I could select foods I enjoyed that would far better for me when I came off the diet. And swapped sweet for savoury without feeling I was missing anything.


That’s fine though. It’s my habit to have three shakes rather than four and I’d not add cream to more than maybe one in a day.


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## travellor

ColinUK said:


> That’s fine though. It’s my habit to have three shakes rather than four and I’d not add cream to more than maybe one in a day.


The original diet was three shakes, then a supplement of 200 calories of vegetables/salad for some fibre content.
Or at least the original I did.


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## Lordy48

ColinUK said:


> My thread is here http://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/weight-loss-ups-and-downs-800-calorie-newcastle.84706/
> 
> I’ve not been prescribed anything but I know it works.
> What have you been prescribed?


I’m not sure the name of the shakes they are prescribing, they have posted the samples out so hopefully I’ll have them in the next few days. She said they originally used the Cambridge shakes but they have made their own ones now, they come in 10 flavours so once I have chosen the ones I like they’ll arrange for me to collect a months supply from my community hospital. Will have a read through your blog, thanks for sharing it!


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## Lordy48

Drummer said:


> I stopped taking Metformin for similar reasons to yourself, just before Christmas 2016 and it was a great relief.
> I  ate low carb from the moment I was diagnosed, and was no longer diabetic (Hba1c of 47) after 80 days. I ate ordinary foods, not a liquid diet, so I can't help with that - though I was working at a firm in the English Midlands where the diet which Dr Howard developed for his patients was mixed and packaged, back in the 1970s. It became the Cambridge diet.


Glad you had success with the low carb. The shakes they are giving me are similar to the Cambridge diet. Anything will be better than the Metformin, it was a nightmare. My mums been prescribed it and has had no problems at all on it, we’re obviously just unlucky


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## Lordy48

travellor said:


> I decided to take a break for a while, (probably the bombardment of low carb into every low calorie thread to be honest, as that never worked for me, but that's a personal opinion)
> 
> I wasn't actually one of the trial participants, but I did see the Newcastle diet results, as they were well televised just when I was diagnosed. My doctor supported me doing this, so I went for it as to me that was the only proven, researched, diet that appeared to have a positive effect on diabetes, and involved a short intervention in diet, not a complete lifestyle change for the rest of your life.
> I have a lifestyle that involved grabbing food on the go, eating out, and I wanted to continue with that lifestyle.
> So including a sandwich from Tesco's, a bag of crisps, and a bag of chips and mainstream restaurant meals had to stay on the menu.
> 
> Professor Taylor noticed that bariatric surgery patients seemed to reverse their diabetes, from losing weight prior to surgery.
> This was on a very low calorie diet, consisting of diet shakes.
> He trialled this onto morbidly obese diabetic patients, with a good result.
> 
> I decided to repeat the diet, using the diet he had proven to work.
> I used Tesco shakes, they were very close in composition to the trial shakes.
> I lost the weight, I reversed my diabetes.
> I also found I could exercise better, and (until the lockdown) kept this up, and found this was also very good for my blood sugar.
> I found the effect of stopping eating had the beneficial side effect of changing my relationship with food, it was very easy to eat the same food as before, but only when I needed to, rather than over eating and putting weight back on.
> Also I stopped eating sweet foods, and switched to savoury.
> (Steak bake from Greggs, not the donut now)
> 
> 
> It does appear, when questioned about weight loss, Professor Taylor was asked if diabetics had to use shakes, or would other ways to lose weight work. His answer was something like, he had only trialled the shakes, but any weight loss would obviously be beneficial.
> This was immediately picked up by many writing books to sell other diets, some which have worked on some people, some which you need to keep on for life, some which have had no effects.
> I have also, anecdotally, noticed that losing weight quickly, rather than slowly, seems to have had a more significant effect on the reversal of diabetes, for those who continue with a high carb diet later. But again, that is purely opinion.
> But the other trials of the Newcastle diet. based on the same shake style diet, have appeared to reinforced the first trial, and no other results appear from different diets that don't involve a specialist way of eating for life later have been published.
> So I would say you are definitely on the right course, just don't be tempted to alter the diet, don't add anything, and finish the course, then refer back to the doctor for the follow up diet sheet, which is the normal, NHS, healthy food options.
> 
> I reversed my diabetes this way, and it certainly changed my life.


Thanks for your feed back, very helpful. I’ve been told it’s a 2 year programme over all, after the 12 weeks they will help me slowly add food back to my diet and help advise what to eat. I’m looking at the shakes as kind of a food detox, like yourself I grab food on the go a lot as I’ve a busy work life and I thought 12 weeks of just having to drink shakes will take any thought away from choosing food and then I can work on changing how I see food and choices etc. The dietician is also very supportive and I feel they are going to be really helpful if I have a wobble or anything. But hopefully I won’t!


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## Lordy48

travellor said:


> Although this was directed at Colin, and I didn't look at Exante, I will chip in if you don't mind.
> 
> The Tesco shakes I used were 21g of carbs when made up.
> That was is 201 calories.
> So your body will be way in deficit of energy, and converting any foodsfuff as best it can.
> (I did exercise to maintain muscle tone, as muscle will be converted with fat off your body otherwise)
> 
> And as this was the format of the original Newcastle Diet, the carbs aren't of any consideration.
> They weren't of any issue in the original diet, and that was what I based my results on.
> 
> If you are going to reverse your diabetes, by definition, your body must be able to manage carbs, but at this moment, for some reason, it is failing to.
> So, you eat carbs as part of the diet. If the diet works, your body will manage these carbs.
> If it doesn't work, your body has issues beyond the internal fat that this diet removes.
> 
> Indeed, if your  pancreatic islets are surrounded with fat that stops them working effectively, I considered that actually making them try would help expel any plugs of fat out of them, as opposed to trying to make what was a low calorie diet into a low carb diet, and deliberately not exercising my pancreatic islets and getting a false result.
> 
> (Another myth that quite often used to pop up is you need to add a spoonful of oil to the shakes, or you'll destroy your gall bladder. No one has in any trial, and to be honest, if you add 120 calories of oil in, after a couple of spoonfuls you've destroyed the balanced diet, which does actually already include a normal amount of fat, as now you need to leave a shake out, which is losing the nutrients, vitamins and the meal, just to turn it into a high fat diet)


I am also diagnosed with PCOS which the dietician told me also effects the way I process carbs. Which will explain why I have had a problem with my weight since I was 3, parents fed me normal healthy food and I ran about but kept putting weight on. I wasn’t diagnosed till a few years ago but the dietician has said carbs will always be a problem for me due to this condition so I’ll always need to avoid and limit white carbs. I’ll share the shakes they are giving me when the samples come in.


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## ColinUK

travellor said:


> The original diet was three shakes, then a supplement of 200 calories of vegetables/salad for some fibre content.
> Or at least the original I did.


According to Exante it was 3 shakes plus a 200 cal meal or 4 shakes/meal replacement products with no additional foodstuffs. 
All depends what works best for you


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## Drummer

Lordy48 said:


> I am also diagnosed with PCOS which the dietician told me also effects the way I process carbs. Which will explain why I have had a problem with my weight since I was 3, parents fed me normal healthy food and I ran about but kept putting weight on. I wasn’t diagnosed till a few years ago but the dietician has said carbs will always be a problem for me due to this condition so I’ll always need to avoid and limit white carbs. I’ll share the shakes they are giving me when the samples come in.


It really is not the colour of the carbs that is important, the starch in brown carbs will increase your blood glucose just as easily as white ones, so there is no advantage eating wholemeal.


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## Lucyr

Drummer said:


> It really is not the colour of the carbs that is important, the starch in brown carbs will increase your blood glucose just as easily as white ones, so there is no advantage eating wholemeal.


I think you are being too blunt here and too focused on ultra low carb. Whilst both Wholemeal and white are carbs and so impact blood sugar, you can’t say there is no advantage in Wholemeal. There is advantage in eating wholemeal over white when eating carbs, as Wholemeal contains more fibre which is good for fullness and digestion.


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## travellor

This is exactly the reason why low carb is not a diet I could do for life.
I chose the Newcastle Diet to reverse diabetes, not simply to control the symptoms.
That's just putting a plaster on it to me.
Yes, any carb is a carb.
However, if you don't always think "avoid carbs" you can understand the rest of the world eats carbs with no problems with their blood glucose. (Let's not get into digestion and absorption times, that normally gets glossed over as well)
But carbs do not increase blood glucose in the general non diabetic population,
So that was the choice I decided to make, to reverse diabetes, so carbs do not increase my blood glucose.
As many may say, it may not work, but if I haven't tried it, I wouldn't have known.

I do, like hopefully Lordy48 will eventually be able to, limit white carbs through personal choice, not necessity, as wholemeal is indeed a better option. The same applies to pasta and rice.

But there is nothing like a bacon sandwich on a very thick slice or two of white crusty bread in the morning, and yes, that still happens.


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## Christy

travellor said:


> This is exactly the reason why low carb is not a diet I could do for life.
> I chose the Newcastle Diet to reverse diabetes, not simply to control the symptoms.


Hi @travellor , really interested in what you're saying here. I genuinely thought that you could possibly "reverse/put into remission" diabetes with low carb OR low calorie? Thinking that the main aim was to reduce weight and blood sugar levels. Is there a difference between the 2 approaches with regards to the end outcome?


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## ColinUK

Lucyr said:


> I think you are being too blunt here and too focused on ultra low carb. Whilst both Wholemeal and white are carbs and so impact blood sugar, you can’t say there is no advantage in Wholemeal. There is advantage in eating wholemeal over white when eating carbs, as Wholemeal contains more fibre which is good for fullness and digestion.


For me the supposedly healthier “brown” carbs always produce a much more significant BG spike than the others. Of standard breads for example, the least problematic is good quality traditional french bread (made with french flour).
Of course I’m better without it at all.


----------



## travellor

Christy said:


> Hi @travellor , really interested in what you're saying here. I genuinely thought that you could possibly "reverse/put into remission" diabetes with low carb OR low calorie? Thinking that the main aim was to reduce weight and blood sugar levels. Is there a difference between the 2 approaches with regards to the end outcom



I can't answer for a low carb diet. If you continue to need to eat low carb, to me that's not reversal though.
If, like myself and many others who have used a very low calorie diet to achieve reversal, can then eat any number of any type of carbs, in any diet, without adverse effects, ie a normal diet as eaten by a none diabetic with the same effect, that is the only way to claim reversal to me.


----------



## Christy

travellor said:


> I can't answer for a low carb diet. If you continue to need to eat low carb, to me that's not reversal though.
> If, like myself and many others who have used a very low calorie diet to achieve reversal, can then eat any number of any type of carbs, in any diet, without adverse effects, ie a normal diet as eaten by a none diabetic with the same effect, that is the only way to claim reversal to me.


Thanks @travellor , food for thought - pardon the pun! With a recent HbA1c of 26 it's too low so something needs to change in my diet but I still need to lose weight. I thought reversal wasn't an option, only remission, but it's clearly worked for you.


----------



## travellor

Christy said:


> Thanks @travellor , food for thought - pardon the pun! With a recent HbA1c of 26 it's too low so something needs to change in my diet but I still need to lose weight. I thought reversal wasn't an option, only remission, but it's clearly worked for you.


Too low and none of the rules for diabetes apply I'm afraid. I couldn't suggest anything other than speaking to your health team for any advice I'm afraid.


----------



## rebrascora

ColinUK said:


> For me the supposedly healthier “brown” carbs always produce a much more significant BG spike than the others. Of standard breads for example, the least problematic is good quality traditional french bread (made with french flour).
> Of course I’m better without it at all.


Colin, have you considered that the spike from the French bread has hit it's peak and is well on it's way down by the time you test at the 2 hour point but may have spiked significantly higher than the wholemeal bread at the 1 hour mark. The very fine white French flour will likely break down much quicker than the wholemeal, which will likely release over a longer period, so the French bread may just appear to be better at the 2 hour point but there is perhaps a major spike happening at 1 hour with it that you are unaware of.... that would be my concern.


----------



## Eddy Edson

Christy said:


> Thanks @travellor , food for thought - pardon the pun! With a recent HbA1c of 26 it's too low so something needs to change in my diet but I still need to lose weight. I thought reversal wasn't an option, only remission, but it's clearly worked for you.


It's pretty low but I'm not sure that it's _too_ low? 

I had an HbA1c of 27 on one test last year - probably some kind of glitch, I think, but I looked into it. According to the research data I benchmark against, 5% of non-diabetic males aged 40-59 have an HbA1c of 27 or lower. For younger males, the 5% level is 25; for older, 28.  Didn't record data for females but it wouldn't be much different.  

Anyway, I'd say talk to yr doc, obviously, but it's not necessarily anything you need to fix.


----------



## Eddy Edson

Christy said:


> Thanks @travellor , food for thought - pardon the pun! With a recent HbA1c of 26 it's too low so something needs to change in my diet but I still need to lose weight. I thought reversal wasn't an option, only remission, but it's clearly worked for you.


Reversal has worked for me, also, and also via weight loss. I still choose not to eat a lot of grain-based things and so normally just "moderate" carb levels of around 130g per day, but that's because most grain-based things really aren't that nutritious compared to my standard seeds & nuts I turned into a bit of a nutrition-nazi as part of getting my diet sorted. If I do eat a bigger carb load, it really doesn't take me out of a "normal" BG range.


----------



## AndBreathe

Christy said:


> Hi @travellor , really interested in what you're saying here. I genuinely thought that you could possibly "reverse/put into remission" diabetes with low carb OR low calorie? Thinking that the main aim was to reduce weight and blood sugar levels. Is there a difference between the 2 approaches with regards to the end outcome?



Christy, I think it is worth stating that no approach has any guarantee of efficacy - whether low cal, low carb, low fat, or whatever.  The annoying thing about the human body is every one is unique, and each one will have it's own way of coping, or not with any given set of circumstances.

That for me is the reason self-testing (fingerprick) testing is so critical, else any given individual is somewhat in the dark about the impacts of any changes they make.


----------



## travellor

Christy said:


> Thanks @travellor , food for thought - pardon the pun! With a recent HbA1c of 26 it's too low so something needs to change in my diet but I still need to lose weight. I thought reversal wasn't an option, only remission, but it's clearly worked for you.


Sorry, I wasn't saying it was too low in my previous response. I meant that none of any diabetic responses could really help on that sort of reading, that would be something to ask your health team about.


----------



## ColinUK

rebrascora said:


> Colin, have you considered that the spike from the French bread has hit it's peak and is well on it's way down by the time you test at the 2 hour point but may have spiked significantly higher than the wholemeal bread at the 1 hour mark. The very fine white French flour will likely break down much quicker than the wholemeal, which will likely release over a longer period, so the French bread may just appear to be better at the 2 hour point but there is perhaps a major spike happening at 1 hour with it that you are unaware of.... that would be my concern.


Thought that and I’ve tested at half hourly intervals once with a “real” baguette and it was an increase but really gradual. 
Not that I’m eating baguettes or bread in anything other than exceptional circumstances anyway these days. 

Considering I’d be able to get through two baguettes or a pain de campagne over a day beforehand.....


----------



## Christy

travellor said:


> Sorry, I wasn't saying it was too low in my previous response. I meant that none of any diabetic responses could really help on that sort of reading, that would be something to ask your health team about.


It is too low lol but I understood what you meant, thanks. I don't have a health team as such other than the gp who told me the HbA1c was so low it wasn't on the scale and that I was in remission from any side effects from diabetes. Other than saying it was too low I wasn't offered any advice so I'm continuing to watch what I eat but introducing some carbs too in small portions to see how I get on.


----------



## Drummer

Lucyr said:


> I think you are being too blunt here and too focused on ultra low carb. Whilst both Wholemeal and white are carbs and so impact blood sugar, you can’t say there is no advantage in Wholemeal. There is advantage in eating wholemeal over white when eating carbs, as Wholemeal contains more fibre which is good for fullness and digestion.


As I have a meter to test my blood glucose levels I can say, categorically, for the control of blood glucose levels there is no benefit from eating foods with more fibre. I have proved that to my own satisfaction so I am inclined to be blunt about it when I see someone hoping to get benefit from changing to brown carbs. It could mean that they are causing spikes, and I can't see how that could be beneficial.


----------



## travellor

I think we all need to remember, there is a lot more to food than simply using it to control blood glucose.
There are always great benefits from eating healthier foods.


----------



## AndBreathe

Christy said:


> It is too low lol but I understood what you meant, thanks. I don't have a health team as such other than the gp who told me the HbA1c was so low it wasn't on the scale and that I was in remission from any side effects from diabetes. Other than saying it was too low I wasn't offered any advice so I'm continuing to watch what I eat but introducing some carbs too in small portions to see how I get on.



Christy, can I ask who told you your HbA1c was too low?

My OH, who is 74 (today - happy birthday to him.) doesn't live with diabetes, but his A1cs, eating a very normal diet are always in the mid-20s.  His just seems pretty efficient to me.


----------



## Christy

AndBreathe said:


> Christy, can I ask who told you your HbA1c was too low?
> 
> My OH, who is 74 (today - happy birthday to him.) doesn't live with diabetes, but his A1cs, eating a very normal diet are always in the mid-20s.  His just seems pretty efficient to me.


Hi @AndBreathe . My GP when I phoned for my result. She said, "be careful, you don't want to go the other way" whatever that meant. I was too shocked to ask any more. That's really reassuring to know because I've tried to find out what a result like that means without success. I've only got Dr Google to ask. I feel totally fine (although I felt fine at HbA1c 49 & 3.5 stone heavier). It's been a real kick up the proverbial which isn't a bad thing. Welcome any comments/suggestions.

Happy birthday to your OH!


----------



## AndBreathe

Christy said:


> Hi @AndBreathe . My GP when I phoned for my result. She said, "be careful, you don't want to go the other way" whatever that meant. I was too shocked to ask any more. That's really reassuring to know because I've tried to find out what a result like that means without success. I've only got Dr Google to ask. I feel totally fine (although I felt fine at HbA1c 49 & 3.5 stone heavier). It's been a real kick up the proverbial which isn't a bad thing. Welcome any comments/suggestions.
> 
> Happy birthday to your OH!



Honestly, if you aren't taking meds, and have no other comorbidities, I doubt HbA1c of mid 20 would be harmful to you.

If you were taking meds - particularly anything that could be driving your blood sugars south, there could be concern you could be having too many hypos.

Clearly, it's your choice what you do, relating to your HbA1c, but if you feel well and comfortable with your current way of eating, in your shoes, I'd just keep going.

Anyway, we'd best not deflect this thread, on a different topic, any more.

Well done you, and OH says,........... "I don't like being old, but thank you".


----------



## Drummer

travellor said:


> I think we all need to remember, there is a lot more to food than simply using it to control blood glucose.
> There are always great benefits from eating healthier foods.


The foods I was prescribed and which took me to 264lb were always described as 'healthy' - then the tablets prescribed for the diabetes were supposed to do me good too.
I am far better off without either.
My diet controls my diabetes, gives me energy and I feel a lot younger, I am in a far better place mentally, I can still learn new things even at 70, and I am remembering things which I lost due to the tablets four years ago - that really is weird, I must say. I went back to work and found that I was getting stronger the more I did.
I think what we all need to remember is that we are the ones in these bodies and no one else should dictate how we maintain ourselves.
Yes, I am pretty emphatic about eating low carb, but if you test your response to carbs you should come to understand your own limits with them.
It is very old advice, it was carved into the pronaos of the Temple of Apollo at Delphi, the first maxim is know thyself, the second, nothing to excess, and the third, surety brings ruin. I was quite amused to discover that my personal philosophy was nothing of the kind.


----------



## Christy

AndBreathe said:


> Honestly, if you aren't taking meds, and have no other comorbidities, I doubt HbA1c of mid 20 would be harmful to you.
> 
> If you were taking meds - particularly anything that could be driving your blood sugars south, there could be concern you could be having too many hypos.
> 
> Clearly, it's your choice what you do, relating to your HbA1c, but if you feel well and comfortable with your current way of eating, in your shoes, I'd just keep going.
> 
> Anyway, we'd best not deflect this thread, on a different topic, any more.
> 
> Well done you, and OH says,........... "I don't like being old, but thank you".


Hi @AndBreathe , no meds, no co-morbities. Thanks for your advice. And although your OH may not like being a year older tell them it's better than the alternative  life's to be enjoyed!


----------



## travellor

Drummer said:


> The foods I was prescribed and which took me to 264lb were always described as 'healthy' - then the tablets prescribed for the diabetes were supposed to do me good too.
> I am far better off without either.
> My diet controls my diabetes, gives me energy and I feel a lot younger, I am in a far better place mentally, I can still learn new things even at 70, and I am remembering things which I lost due to the tablets four years ago - that really is weird, I must say. I went back to work and found that I was getting stronger the more I did.
> I think what we all need to remember is that we are the ones in these bodies and no one else should dictate how we maintain ourselves.
> Yes, I am pretty emphatic about eating low carb, but if you test your response to carbs you should come to understand your own limits with them.
> It is very old advice, it was carved into the pronaos of the Temple of Apollo at Delphi, the first maxim is know thyself, the second, nothing to excess, and the third, surety brings ruin. I was quite amused to discover that my personal philosophy was nothing of the kind.


That's it in a nutshell.
"My diet controls my diabetes"
This thread isn't about having to have a diet for life to control diabetes.

This thread is about a prescribed course of treatment that has a proven record of reversing diabetes, and getting back to a normal diet that the rest of the world still considers healthy.
It works very well for me, and indeed, very well for the normal population.

Your limits certainly aren't mine, so as you say, it may work well, and it's a choice you need to make for yourself, but let's let the op do it their own way as well, without dictating how bad any carb is for anyone else?


----------



## Drummer

Test, check, adjust - head for normality.


----------



## everydayupsanddowns

Looking forward to hearing how you get in with the Newcastle approach @Lordy48 

As you can see from the thread, we find different approaches work (or don‘t work) and suit (or don’t suit!) different individuals, so it’s a matter of finding approaches that you think will work for you, but then keeping an open mind to try other options if things don’t pan out as you hoped.

Keep us posted with how things play out for you, and all the best for your new plan


----------



## Lordy48

An update! Bit overdue...
So I have started the programme, it’s called Counter Weight - they have a website. There are 11 shake and soup options and they are surprisingly tasty which I didn’t expect and they even have a veg and crouton soup which gives a little something to crunch and chew. I get to choose 8 flavours each month, supplied in boxes of 14 by my dietician. I’ve also been given fibogel which I take daily as the plan can cause constipation, a blood glucose monitor and blood pressure monitor for taking readings to monitor. I’ve to drink 2.5L a day of water, sugar free diluted drinks or sugar free fizzy drinks. I started the programme 5 days ago and the first few days were quite rough - I felt very tired and lethargic, had cold sweats and not much energy and a little bit of nausea, all of which are normal side effects. However that’s passed and today I feel great. I’ve noticed a huge difference on my skin with all the extra hydration, I had very dry skin and lips before and that’s gone. My blood glucose has dropped from being between 12-20 to 6-11. I cheated and weighed myself today (suppose to wait till Tuesday) and I’ve lost 3.8kg so far, which is about 8lb. I started at 165kg so it’s a drop in the ocean but a positive start. I won’t lie though it is tough - I miss food. I live and help care for my Gran and have to still cook meals for her and she’s very fond of cakes! So it’s lots of will power needed plus it makes you aware of just how much food is everywhere - tv, social media, shops. But the positives so far are out weighing the cravings so I’m hoping I can keep at it for the next 11 weeks.


----------



## travellor

Sounds like you are making a great start.
It gets a load easier after a few days, when the old habits drop away.


----------



## rebrascora

Lordy48 said:


> So it’s lots of will power needed plus it makes you aware of just how much food is everywhere - tv, social media, shops.


That was something which really shocked me when I started low carbing. The amount of TV adverts and shop outlets which are constantly tempting you to eat this stuff is mind blowing and more shocking that we have become blind to it until we actually start resisting the temptation and then you see that it is everywhere.... almost constant pressure to indulge. It is no wonder that obesity is such a growing problem. 
Good luck. It will eventually get easier. The other thing which blows my mind is that I just don't crave those high carb foods anymore and I was a sugar addict, chocoholic and all round carb monster pre diagnosis. Now I am just a cheese and pork scratchings monster!!  ... at least they don't impact my BG levels though!


----------



## Lordy48

travellor said:


> Sounds like you are making a great start.
> It gets a load easier after a few days, when the old habits drop away.


Thanks, it’s definitely about breaking bad habits.


rebrascora said:


> That was something which really shocked me when I started low carbing. The amount of TV adverts and shop outlets which are constantly tempting you to eat this stuff is mind blowing and more shocking that we have become blind to it until we actually start resisting the temptation and then you see that it is everywhere.... almost constant pressure to indulge. It is no wonder that obesity is such a growing problem.
> Good luck. It will eventually get easier. The other thing which blows my mind is that I just don't crave those high carb foods anymore and I was a sugar addict, chocoholic and all round carb monster pre diagnosis. Now I am just a cheese and pork scratchings monster!!  ... at least they don't impact my BG levels though!


It’s crazy isn’t it! So many adverts, even on kids tv. Then I went to the shops and driving there I saw adverts everywhere. You can’t escape it. Thanks, I’m hoping I get this way too and learn to love veg over bread  I would murder pork scratchings right now


----------



## everydayupsanddowns

Glad you are beginning to find things easier after a tough start @Lordy48 

Hope the programme is beneficial for you


----------



## Lordy48

First week finished and my blood sugar has dropped to nearly a normal range and I’ve lost 12lb - good start!


----------



## lamby

Lordy48 said:


> Hi!
> I was diagnosed with diabetes last summer. I am morbidly obese and very aware my lifestyle has caused this so wasn’t a big surprise! I was started on Metformin and changed my diet, managed to loose 15kg, however Metformin and me didn’t turn out to be friends. I had really bad gastrointestinal issues with it, even on the slow release one. So the nurse told me to stop it before Christmas. I am now about to start the very low calorie liquid diet that can put diabetes into remission, after being referred by my gp. It’s 12 weeks of only shakes and soups provided by them, 4 a day, and then after slowly reintroducing food. I am aware this isn’t going to be easy or a quick fix but I am very determined to give it a go. Has anyone else done this diet or in the process of doing it? There’s plenty information online about the study (DiRect), but I’m just trying to see if there’s any patients feed back about their experiences on it? I’m planning to share my experiences while I am on it - sure their will be plenty of rants but hopefully some positive feed back about the changes and feeling better. Would love to hear about anyone’s experiences on it. Thanks!


Hi,
I am new to this I was diagnosed in Nov 2020 with type 2 diabetes, but I started on the exante shakes and soups end of Jan 21 and have lost a stone so far. I found it from Professor Roy Taylor's research. It does work so far but its not easy in the beginning i was very hungry and I will have to introduce food again soon. I was on metformin and had to go onto the slow release as I had bad tummy probs too, I have found the slow release metformin has brought my BG levels down more. I got the one month supply from exante and you get all different types of meal replacements so it keeps it interesting. Hope it works for you good luck.


----------



## Pomers

Just about to start on the very low calorie diet as expounded by Prof Taylor in his book and as I see discussed above.

I looked at all the shake suppliers and, with my partner's help, chose New You with a £30 starter pack. I see though that @ColinUK will receive a nice discount if I sign up to Exante; I'm happy to do that. I did look at Exante (along with Slim n Save, KeeDiet) but they only seemed competitive price wise with the intro diabetes discount (for which I have their code).

Is there any view on whether Exante is a better product or just personal choice.

I have discussed my hope to reverse my diabetes with my doctor but was a bit saddened that he knew nothing about Prof Roy Taylors work/results and a rapid weight loss diet.

And finally any useful pointers for when I start this 'diet' next week after a visit to the surgery 4th May for an official 'HbA1C' test. I'm aware I will feel very hungry over the first couple of days. I'm planning on having 3 shakes a day plus a very low cal homemade vegetable soup.

Cheers, Ian


----------



## ColinUK

Hi Ian. 
Honestly I think it’s purely personal preference. And exante isn’t easy. I need to get back on top of my diet (in the truest sense of the word) again as I pushed the boundaries so much that I’ve redrawn the map completely lol


----------



## Lordy48

Pomers said:


> Just about to start on the very low calorie diet as expounded by Prof Taylor in his book and as I see discussed above.
> 
> I looked at all the shake suppliers and, with my partner's help, chose New You with a £30 starter pack. I see though that @ColinUK will receive a nice discount if I sign up to Exante; I'm happy to do that. I did look at Exante (along with Slim n Save, KeeDiet) but they only seemed competitive price wise with the intro diabetes discount (for which I have their code).
> 
> Is there any view on whether Exante is a better product or just personal choice.
> 
> I have discussed my hope to reverse my diabetes with my doctor but was a bit saddened that he knew nothing about Prof Roy Taylors work/results and a rapid weight loss diet.
> 
> And finally any useful pointers for when I start this 'diet' next week after a visit to the surgery 4th May for an official 'HbA1C' test. I'm aware I will feel very hungry over the first couple of days. I'm planning on having 3 shakes a day plus a very low cal homemade vegetable soup.
> 
> Cheers, Ian


I’ve just finished week 8 on the Counter Weight programme now. It’s 4 shakes or soups a day. My first week I was very tired, hungry and generally quite irritable. But it passed quickly, I then got a surge in energy and I felt much better. I’m not sure how the other meal replacement plans are, I can only share my experience on the one I’m on. I need to drink 2.5 litres at least a day of water, diluted juice is allowed if sugar free. I also need to take fibogel as the shakes can make you constipated which I have experienced, but the fibogel sorted it. That’s all the physical side effects I had. Mentally it’s been a bit tougher, super market shopping and living with someone who still eats food is hard! I’ve really missed eating. But I don’t feel hungry on my shakes at all now. In 8 weeks I’ve lost 19kg / 3 stone 2lb, my blood glucose readings are now totally normal - they range between 5 and 8.5. My blurry vision is gone, the tingling in my feet stopped. After 12 weeks they start me slowly on food reintroduction, adding a 400 calorie meal for 2 weeks, then increasing it till I’m on 3 a day. I would highly recommend this form of treatment, I was lucky my GP offered it to me the first day I was diagnosed and I jumped at the chance. The dietician I’ve had has been really supportive and helpful. Good luck!


----------



## Ditto

I'm feeling really jealous. How come you get all that help and free stuff and I get zilch! It shouldn't be allowed!  Why does one surgery give out help and another absolutely nothing. All I got was a nasty woman doctor telling me explicitly how I was going to die and sooner rather than later. I've been living in fear and denial ever since. I'm very pleased for you really.  Still jealous though. 

PS: From liver not from type 2, that's too slow to get me no doubt ... the irony!


----------



## Lordy48

Ditto said:


> I'm feeling really jealous. How come you get all that help and free stuff and I get zilch! It shouldn't be allowed!  Why does one surgery give out help and another absolutely nothing. All I got was a nasty woman doctor telling me explicitly how I was going to die and sooner rather than later. I've been living in fear and denial ever since. I'm very pleased for you really.  Still jealous though.
> 
> PS: From liver not from type 2, that's too slow to get me no doubt ... the irony


Thats terrible! They should be supportive and encouraging to you and try to help! It seems to be different health boards have different takes on it. I’m in a fb group for people doing counter weight and it seems that here in scotland it’s being offered free of charge and fully supported, but some of the other people doing it in England have only been given a discount to buy the items themselves or they are just fully paying for it themselves. Counter weight do have a full team of dieticians and support staff if you do want to do it yourself but it’s not cheap, it’s £10 a day for the shakes and soups. When I went to the GP I had a student doctor so I don’t know if maybe she had learned about the study at university recently and that’s why she offered me it? Because my mum had been diagnosed with diabetes after me and the doctor hasn’t suggested this plan to her at all, just firing her on medication. I don’t know if it’s an age thing - I’m 36 and my mums 58. But there’s people of that age and older on the fb group page doing it. It seems to be a bit of a lottery on who your doctor is and what they know or think of it. It’s a real shame because I’ve had such good results on it and feel so much better, it could benefit so many more people. Hopefully in the future they do offer it more and can help more people. I’d go back and have a rant at that doctor - get your stomping shoes on lol


----------



## Ditto

Lol.  I probably wouldn't stick to it anyways, I can't seem to stick to anything. It would have been nice to have been offered some help though. I've not been to the docs since, I'm still sulking! They want me to have a camera down and will no doubt be asking me to have more scans, they can go tickle. I'll shuffle off without all that hassle I think.


----------



## everydayupsanddowns

Glad to hear you’ve had such positive results @Lordy48

Well done for sticking with it when it got tough.

Hope the reintroduction of food goes well.


----------



## Pomers

So I'm into first week of shakes diet. Do I keep to this shake diet 6-800 cals per day until I lose the ~15kg then move onto Mediterranean or low carb diet available here. I'm eating (drinking!) 3 'New You' shakes/porridge and one fresh veg soup a day currently.


----------



## travellor

Eight weeks is the program, then introduce a healthy balanced diet.
I reversed my diabetes successfully, so I didn't need to eat low carb.
Indeed, that was why I did it, I didn't want to be forced to limit my options, especially when I'm out.
Generally I eat Mediterranean, but McDonald's, Pizza Hut or the chippy work if I'm pushed.


----------



## Ditto

Kudos to anybody that can stick to that liquid diet, spent £40 and can't do it. I really have tried, believe me. Never mind, back to trying to do low carb, but good luck to all.


----------



## Lordy48

Pomers said:


> So I'm into first week of shakes diet. Do I keep to this shake diet 6-800 cals per day until I lose the ~15kg then move onto Mediterranean or low carb diet available here. I'm eating (drinking!) 3 'New You' shakes/porridge and one fresh veg soup a day currently.


The way my programme works is I drop 2 shakes and have a 400 calorie meal for 2 weeks, so still 800 calories for those 2 weeks. Then another shake is dropped and I have 2 x 400 calorie meals for 2 weeks and finally 3 x 400 calorie meals. The dietician said they will then slowly increase my calories until my weight loss slows to 1 or 2 lb a week as I’m currently loosing 4-5lb a week, but if you didn’t have more weight to loose they’d increase the calories till your weight stayed stable. The NHS dietician will monitor me for 2 years as their aim is to help you keep the weight off and stay in remission, which I currently am in. But they have also warned me I’ll be surprised how full I feel when I start eating again so might be worth while slowly introducing food rather than jumping back in with 3 meals a day. It’s all about moderation, a sensible healthy diet afterwards should be fine. It’s a tough diet to follow, but worth it if you can stick to it. Good luck!


----------



## Lordy48

Time for an update. I've finished my 12 weeks on meal replacement and on my 1st week of food reintroduction. So happy to eat again! But surprised how much less I can eat, which isn't a bad thing. I've lost 4 stone 6lb or 28 kg and got my first HbA1C results back today and they were 37 - big change from them being over 90 when I was first diagnosed! To be classed as being in remission I need to have my bloods checked again in 3 and 6 months when my diet has been built back up to normal and have readings under 42. But so far so good, really pleased and I feel so much better over all. Would definitely recommend doing this type of treatment to anyone.


----------



## Christy

@Lordy48  that's fantastic! You must be delighted! Good luck with the next part of your regime.


----------



## everydayupsanddowns

Thanks for the update @Lordy48 

Wow! how fantastic for you. Congratulations on your brilliant progress


----------



## Ditto

Good grief how did you do it? @Lordy48 Were you completely liquid diet? No solids at all? I have to do it, but keep putting it off and still pigging, it's always going to be tomorrow till there are no more tomorrows. 

Well done.


----------



## Eddy Edson

Lordy48 said:


> Time for an update. I've finished my 12 weeks on meal replacement and on my 1st week of food reintroduction. So happy to eat again! But surprised how much less I can eat, which isn't a bad thing. I've lost 4 stone 6lb or 28 kg and got my first HbA1C results back today and they were 37 - big change from them being over 90 when I was first diagnosed! To be classed as being in remission I need to have my bloods checked again in 3 and 6 months when my diet has been built back up to normal and have readings under 42. But so far so good, really pleased and I feel so much better over all. Would definitely recommend doing this type of treatment to anyone.


Triffic - well done!


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## Lordy48

Christy said:


> @Lordy48  that's fantastic! You must be delighted! Good luck with the next part of your regime.


Thank you, I am really pleased I didn’t expect results this good. I feel so much better so it’s been totally worth it!


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## Lordy48

Birdy said:


> Good grief how did you do it? @Lordy48 Were you completely liquid diet? No solids at all? I have to do it, but keep putting it off and still pigging, it's always going to be tomorrow till there are no more tomorrows.
> 
> Well done.


Yes liquid only for 12 weeks, it’s a programme called Counterweight, I was put on it by my GP. It’s not easy, there’s been really tough moments where I’ve missed food a lot. But it’s made sit back and look at how I eat, usually through boredom or stress and not actual hunger. My snacking was shocking. I managed to stick to it because I was very determined, plus I started to feel so much better and when the weight started coming off it encouraged me to keep going. Plus the shakes and soups were surprisingly tasty which helped. I also joined a Facebook group of other people on the programme and they were a great support and motivation. As I said it’s not easy but I would recommend it so much, it’s only 12 weeks and it’s amazing how much better you feel.


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## travellor

Lordy48 said:


> Yes liquid only for 12 weeks, it’s a programme called Counterweight, I was put on it by my GP. It’s not easy, there’s been really tough moments where I’ve missed food a lot. But it’s made sit back and look at how I eat, usually through boredom or stress and not actual hunger. My snacking was shocking. I managed to stick to it because I was very determined, plus I started to feel so much better and when the weight started coming off it encouraged me to keep going. Plus the shakes and soups were surprisingly tasty which helped. I also joined a Facebook group of other people on the programme and they were a great support and motivation. As I said it’s not easy but I would recommend it so much, it’s only 12 weeks and it’s amazing how much better you feel.


The only thing amazing is you!


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## Ditto

I've never heard of that. Did you have to fund yourself? I've heard of peoples being given the stuff to diet with. Sounds great to me. I'm just trying to do SlimFast, 3 bottles a day but I think you're supposed to have 4 so you get all the vitamins. Not sure about the carbs though, I think it sends my bg up. I so need to do some kind of liquid diet.


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## travellor

Birdy said:


> I've never heard of that. Did you have to fund yourself? I've heard of peoples being given the stuff to diet with. Sounds great to me. I'm just trying to do SlimFast, 3 bottles a day but I think you're supposed to have 4 so you get all the vitamins. Not sure about the carbs though, I think it sends my bg up. I so need to do some kind of liquid diet.


Are they about 20 to 25g of carbs per bottle?
Initially you may notice a rise is you have been extremely low carb, but after a week or so you should achieve an insulin response that will bring you down again.
I did three shakes and a salad.


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## Ditto

Thanks for that @travellor  I'm starving already. It's going to kill me this diet, but if I could just stick to it, from my lips to God's ears, please God. I'm desperate.


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## travellor

Birdy said:


> Thanks for that @travellor  I'm starving already. It's going to kill me this diet, but if I could just stick to it, from my lips to God's ears, please God. I'm desperate.


Drink water,  and distraction.
It'll pass in a few days.


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## Lucyr

Birdy said:


> Thanks for that @travellor  I'm starving already. It's going to kill me this diet, but if I could just stick to it, from my lips to God's ears, please God. I'm desperate.


You sound like you could actually be reading my thoughts, I have had such struggle with weight loss recently, things I have done before have stopped working lately. How long have you been doing the shakes for? I do like the appeal of not needing to keep planning meals that a shake diet gives, but always worry about how it becomes a sustainable diet at the end.


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## travellor

Lucyr said:


> You sound like you could actually be reading my thoughts, I have had such struggle with weight loss recently, things I have done before have stopped working lately. How long have you been doing the shakes for? I do like the appeal of not needing to keep planning meals that a shake diet gives, but always worry about how it becomes a sustainable diet at the end.


It becomes sustainable as your food habits have been reset.
You do need to choose a diet that suits your lifestyle then, or you won't keep to it.
I was fortunate in that I did reverse my diabetes, but I was conscious of my need to keep other things in my life.
Eating out, sports, holidays, and hoc food, do I planned to eat a classically healthy diet, low GI, a lot less junk, lose my sweet tooth, space meals on little and often, and not snack. 
I still do all that, so that method suited me.
Lockdown made a dent, no exercise, boredom, I enjoy cooking, eventually I filled the freezer........
But I just weigh myself, eventually I realised I was creeping up, so I went low calorie again for six weeks, and brought it down.


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## Lordy48

travellor said:


> The only thing amazing is you!


Aww thank you so much, very kind. You know yourself it’s not easy but definitely worth it


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## Lordy48

Birdy said:


> I've never heard of that. Did you have to fund yourself? I've heard of peoples being given the stuff to diet with. Sounds great to me. I'm just trying to do SlimFast, 3 bottles a day but I think you're supposed to have 4 so you get all the vitamins. Not sure about the carbs though, I think it sends my bg up. I so need to do some kind of liquid diet.


I didn’t have to pay for it, I was referred through my GP and they provided me with the shakes. But I’ve joined a fb group with others doing the plan and many are paying for it themselves as there healthboards won’t cover it, seems to depend on where you live. The people paying for it are spending £300 roughly a month, it’s not cheap. But it does get results. I found after 2 weeks I wasn’t hungry anymore, also made me stop and think about the way I ate and why. They provide you with counselling and workbooks fully explaining everything, there’s a lot of support with the counterweight programme. But I’m very lucky health board are offering it and encouraging a lot of people to do it.


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## travellor

Lordy48 said:


> I didn’t have to pay for it, I was referred through my GP and they provided me with the shakes. But I’ve joined a fb group with others doing the plan and many are paying for it themselves as there healthboards won’t cover it, seems to depend on where you live. The people paying for it are spending £300 roughly a month, it’s not cheap. But it does get results. I found after 2 weeks I wasn’t hungry anymore, also made me stop and think about the way I ate and why. They provide you with counselling and workbooks fully explaining everything, there’s a lot of support with the counterweight programme. But I’m very lucky health board are offering it and encouraging a lot of people to do it.


I used Tesco shakes.
Most of the time it was on a three for two offer.
So thirty shakes, ten days for eight pounds, twenty four pounds a month. Or thirty six full price.


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## Ditto

@travellor I might go back to the Tesco shakes. Is that made up by yourself with skimmed milk then? I'm using the SlimFast bottles at the minute as they're so convenient and measured out as even with this diet I will go ott and if mixing myself I use whole milk and it will take the calories up. There's no hope for me, greedy is my middle name.  Give it another whirl today then.


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## travellor

Birdy said:


> @travellor I might go back to the Tesco shakes. Is that made up by yourself with skimmed milk then? I'm using the SlimFast bottles at the minute as they're so convenient and measured out as even with this diet I will go ott and if mixing myself I use whole milk and it will take the calories up. There's no hope for me, greedy is my middle name.  Give it another whirl today then.


It is made up by yourself with skimmed milk. Ideally in a blender, or at least a water bottle or similar shaker as they can be a bit lumpy otherwise. It gives it a bit of a "milkshake" texture as well that way.


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## Ditto

@travellor might start doing that then, will see how I go on with the bottles moneywise, I'm still saving money doing Slimfast as not pigging out at takeaways and spending 100s on big food shops, Mum eats like a bird. I'm going for four bottles which is quite high calorie wise but if I can just do that I'll be on a roll.


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## travellor

Birdy said:


> @travellor might start doing that then, will see how I go on with the bottles moneywise, I'm still saving money doing Slimfast as not pigging out at takeaways and spending 100s on big food shops, Mum eats like a bird. I'm going for four bottles which is quite high calorie wise but if I can just do that I'll be on a roll.


I came down from eating far too much, incessantly.
I found it helped to sort out a routine, so if I felt hungry, I knew exactly when the next food would be coming, and didn't bring anything forward. 
I also had a few carrot sticks for when I decided I had to crunch something.
These were slightly more ad-hoc, but again, limited on both quantity and times.
It helped me think in terms of hours, rather than days or weeks, as the next meal was only usually four or five hours away.
And, it does get easier after only a few days. The body soon adapts to the new regime.


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## Weekender

Lordy48 said:


> I’ve just finished week 8 on the Counter Weight programme now. It’s 4 shakes or soups a day. My first week I was very tired, hungry and generally quite irritable. But it passed quickly, I then got a surge in energy and I felt much better. I’m not sure how the other meal replacement plans are, I can only share my experience on the one I’m on. I need to drink 2.5 litres at least a day of water, diluted juice is allowed if sugar free. I also need to take fibogel as the shakes can make you constipated which I have experienced, but the fibogel sorted it. That’s all the physical side effects I had. Mentally it’s been a bit tougher, super market shopping and living with someone who still eats food is hard! I’ve really missed eating. But I don’t feel hungry on my shakes at all now. In 8 weeks I’ve lost 19kg / 3 stone 2lb, my blood glucose readings are now totally normal - they range between 5 and 8.5. My blurry vision is gone, the tingling in my feet stopped. After 12 weeks they start me slowly on food reintroduction, adding a 400 calorie meal for 2 weeks, then increasing it till I’m on 3 a day. I would highly recommend this form of treatment, I was lucky my GP offered it to me the first day I was diagnosed and I jumped at the chance. The dietician I’ve had has been really supportive and helpful. Good luck!


Mighty congratulations  Lordy48, that really is a great achievement. You should be very proud. I've just finished week 2 of the Newcastle diet - which sounds very similar. Your story is inspiring. 10 weeks to my finish dates feels a very long time to go, so it's great to read of your success.


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## Lordy48

Weekender said:


> Mighty congratulations  Lordy48, that really is a great achievement. You should be very proud. I've just finished week 2 of the Newcastle diet - which sounds very similar. Your story is inspiring. 10 weeks to my finish dates feels a very long time to go, so it's great to read of your success.


Good luck on the plan! It’s definitely not easy but really is worth sticking too. After a few weeks it gets easier and you’ll find the the weeks pass quicker. Just take it week by week and keep yourself busy. When you start seeing the benefits and feeling better it’ll keep you going. Hope you get great results with it


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## goodybags

ColinUK said:


> This is the stuff about the referral code... basically you recommend someone, they get a discount and you get a discount
> 
> 
> View attachment 16153
> 
> My referral code is COLIN-R91 so you enter that in the relevant field when you register.
> 
> And Nectar are currently doing 6x points per £1 spent at exante if you go via their website (and have a nectar card obviously).


maybe @ColinUK or somebody else who buys shakes from exante can advise me, please

I’ve registered (using Colin’s code /link) and selected the diabetes discount which it looks like they have validated, so I should get a great discount on my order, 
can’t see do they still give nectar points ? 

which ones do people usually order is it the low sugar smoothies ? any advice greatly appreciated


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## ColinUK

goodybags said:


> maybe @ColinUK or somebody else who buys shakes from exante can advise me, please
> 
> I’ve registered (using Colin’s code /link) and selected the diabetes discount which it looks like they have validated, so I should get a great discount on my order,
> can’t see do they still give nectar points ?
> 
> which ones do people usually order is it the low sugar smoothies ? any advice greatly appreciated


You have to shop via Nectar to get the Nectar points. 

I never pick the low sugar smoothies because the reviews are not good for those so I just used to order standard meal replacement shakes from them. 

I tend to order almond, vanilla, cherry and berries, plus whatever took my fancy from the seasonal ranges. 

Mix them with loads of ice and they’re ok.


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## goodybags

ColinUK said:


> You have to shop via Nectar to get the Nectar points.
> 
> I never pick the low sugar smoothies because the reviews are not good for those so I just used to order standard meal replacement shakes from them.
> 
> I tend to order almond, vanilla, cherry and berries, plus whatever took my fancy from the seasonal ranges.
> 
> Mix them with loads of ice and they’re ok.


Thanks for the advice @ColinUK


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## travellor

I did it with normal shakes.
No problem with them for me either.


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