# Van hits pedestrians on London Bridge



## Amigo

Not many details so far but it looks like a van has run into pedestrians on London Bridge and armed Police are in attendance.


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## Steff

So scary and so like what happened at Westminster.  Just watching story develop on sky news


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## Amigo

Just hope there's not many casualties


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## pav

A couple of reports of what's happening.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/37173...ial-_-TheSun-_-News-_-FBLink-_-Reply-_-FBPAGE

http://news.sky.com/story/knife-attack-after-car-mounts-pavement-in-london-reports-10903580


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## Steff

Witnesses are saying gun shots were heard to. Man been arrested


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## Hazel

For crying out loud, what next


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## Northerner

Awful news  6 dead, 20+ casualties  Remarkably fast response from police.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40146916


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## Steff

Just tragic really is how many lives are these people gonna take and ruin before something is done


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## Copepod

Catching up with news this morning, online and on radio.
All credit to emergency services and public for helping injured people. Credit to Police for rapid action. So sad for those of faith, including Southwark Cathedral cancellation of Pentecost services (because it's within cordon) and true Muslims in Ramadan.
Personally, I'm thinking of my friend who trained as a nurse, then joined Met Police and works in anti-terrorism around railway terminus.


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## Stitch147

Its a scary world. I go to borough market often as its only a short walk from my office. One of my work friends was there last night. Pleased to say he is safe at his girlfriends house now.


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## Amigo

Waking up to more dreadful news. Looks like in addition to 6 fatalities, injured are up to 48 including a Police Officer who has been stabbed.
3 serious acts of terrorism in 3 months in the U.K. Just appalling and deeply worrying.


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## HOBIE

Thank goodness we have excellent Police & NHS services (8 mins).  Getting anywhere in London in 8 mins is very good. my family give our thoughts to all.


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## zuludog

Why is anyone surprised about this ?

Enoch Powell warned us 50 years ago this would happen, and he was shouted down


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## Steff

Im not surprised thats the scary thing in my eyes, its becoming the norm we cant go 2 weeks without another attack in another city.


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## Bill Stewardson

Truth is, there will be many more days like this.
Officers patroling cities with machine guns in public view is just a pointless,and rather condescending, PR act.
The usual messages from foreign leaders add up to zero. All the usual "forthright words" from UK politicians are just hot air. All the talk of "enough being enough" is just sound bytes for the news.
The press talk of " one love" or "we will not be cowed" which is to sell copy.
The end of all this probably does not exist,
My personal view, the election should not happen, political tribalism should be pushed to one side. All those in power need to get back into Parliament, get the leaders of our security services together, forget cost and drive towards a strategy of "zero tolerance " of terrorist sympathy. Stuff the Human Rughts Act, our brothers and sisters are dying in the sunshine on our streets.


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## mikeyB

It may not seem like it, but there are some positives in this to be found. The security services are doing a good job, quite a few plots have been thwarted over the last year or so. It's no coincidence that armed police were on the spot in less than 5 minutes - onlookers thought the gunshots were the terrorists. 

And the old IRA members will look at this bunch of amateurs with scorn. What kind of loser gets in a car and drives at people then jumps out with a knife?  A knife??? Deadly, but completely amateurish, no planning other than an intent for suicide by police, who, let's be honest, were waiting for them.

This is, like the IRA, an "organisation" which is riddled with informers. They are enfeebled. Still dangerous, mind, but, thanks to the security services, not as dangerous as you might think reading the headlines. 

I agree, troops and police wandering round the streets with assault guns is just so much window dressing, but if it makes people feel safer, then it's money well spent.


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## Northerner

mikeyB said:


> I agree, troops and police wandering round the streets with assault guns is just so much window dressing, but if it makes people feel safer, then it's money well spent.


I think that bringing back the bobby on the beat would help more than seeing armed police after the event. Real community policing where the bobby has real local knowledge and yes, respect of the community he works in.

The PM has, as usual, reacted with a complete lack of insight, and this has been filtered out in all the media interviews this morning - empty phrases about 'working together' to stop the internet. If 'enough is enough' why haven't they published the report on where the funding and arms come from? I know this was a crude attack, but the people persuading these young men to kill others and themselves have some huge backing from somewhere


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## Amigo

The knowledge that at any given time the Security Services are 'aware' of 500 potential terrorist plots is very concerning. The Manchester terrorist had apparently been on their radar but it's impossible to monitor every known radical with a seething grudge.  News today has a guy saying he'd reported one of the London terrorists to Police for extremist behaviour and attitudes but in his words 'nothing was done'. I hope then that when Theresa May says we can no longer be so tolerant of extremism in this country, that she actually means it. I also hope she finds a way to fund the level of security needed. The threat is real and it needs to start with the internet ISP's and social media groups.
The Muslim communities themselves are also often aware of radicalised members whose behaviour is becoming concerning.


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## Bill Stewardson

I'm afraid to say the PMs cheap electioneering does no good at all, actually just enrages people, just how refreshing would an honest speech have been ?
It cannot be ignored that the police AND armed forces have been dramatically cut in recent years, and various leading figures have made damning statements about it over the last few years.
I just wish our leader(s) would openly say that all political differences are out the window, acknowledge mistakes,sit round a table with security commanders, assess what we HAVE got and sink their collective teeth into the current out of control situation.
I saw two coppers in Sheffy last week with machine guns, sorry, but I cannot see how that contributes to the answer.
The threat level had just been lowered, and, again, one of the newer terrorists HAD been reported to police recently,so, yes, Enough really is ENOUGH.
As for "no longer being tolerant" errm I hadn't realised we were being tolerant before,,it's just more out of touch bull.


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## Amigo

Bill Stewardson said:


> I'm afraid to say the PMs cheap electioneering does no good at all, actually just enrages people, just how refreshing would an honest speech have been ?
> It cannot be ignored that the police AND armed forces have been dramatically cut in recent years, and various leading figures have made damning statements about it over the last few years.
> I just wish our leader(s) would openly say that all political differences are out the window, acknowledge mistakes,sit round a table with security commanders, assess what we HAVE got and sink their collective teeth into the current out of control situation.
> I saw two coppers in Sheffy last week with machine guns, sorry, but I cannot see how that contributes to the answer.
> The threat level had just been lowered, and, again, one of the newer terrorists HAD been reported to police recently,so, yes, Enough really is ENOUGH.
> As for "no longer being tolerant" errm I hadn't realised we were being tolerant before,,it's just more out of touch bull.



Not tolerant and ultra pc Bill? I give you this headline;

*Abu Hamza has finally left UK after 8 years, 15 court cases and a £25m bill for taxpayers!*


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## HOBIE

Well put Amigo !   We are to soft in this country. 8 mins to sort that scum out.    Thank goodness for an excellent Police force with really brave positive members.


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## Bill Stewardson

I see your point regarding Hamza, however that is now gone.
All this talk of "enough is enough" annoys me immensely. May was Home Secretary and failed miserably.
It will be interesting to see just what this new "tough stance" from our "strong and stable " leader reveals,, Martial Law,, Curfews,,,Deportations,,,Travel Bans,, outlawing certain religious gatherings,,, instant reactions to reports from members of the public,,filling in the spaces with soldiers ( oh, sorry, we've already had that- made a huge difference eh?),,,more carefully rehearsed rhetoric ?? An avalanche of support for Ukip lead by gutter comics is more likely.
Common sense and unity in the marble halls of London is required now.
I have serious doubts about that.


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## Northerner

Bill Stewardson said:


> I see your point regarding Hamza, however that is now gone.
> All this talk of "enough is enough" annoys me immensely. May was Home Secretary and failed miserably.
> It will be interesting to see just what this new "tough stance" from our "strong and stable " leader reveals,, Martial Law,, Curfews,,,Deportations,,,Travel Bans,, outlawing certain religious gatherings,,, instant reactions to reports from members of the public,,filling in the spaces with soldiers ( oh, sorry, we've already had that- made a huge difference eh?),,,more carefully rehearsed rhetoric ?? An avalanche of support for Ukip lead by gutter comics is more likely.
> Common sense and unity in the marble halls of London is required now.
> I have serious doubts about that.


I thought the Guardian's piece on the PM's statement/intentions exposed a few good points:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...on-theresa-may-plans-on-terror-they-are-wrong


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## Bill Stewardson

That article is spot on. There is a massive difference between an extremist and a terrorist, maybe they hope to somehow alienate all who have strong views on certain things, which would, technically include the evil ones.
However, many non terrorists would then suffer, i.e. , punish the innocent to get at the guilty. Is that not a form of terrorism ?
The government has long since had plans to seriously impede public freedom via the internet etc, it seems they need a scapegoat and the internet is currently it.  If you "sanitise' the Net (which is not possible) they will use texts, what then ?? After that, letters ?? After that speech ??
When my son died at Basra many assumed I would hate Muslims, that really did depress me, showed me how shallow the media and the public really are.
Politics is dodging its fundamental obligation to honesty and truth.
It is not about getting elected, it is about duty of care to all peace loving people, regardless of race,religion,sexuality, beliefs or anything else.( or damn well should be).
We flog weapons to the Saudis and anyone who will pay.
At the service the priest said my son had gone to a far better place,
Difficult to disagree, have all those happy children who died at Manchester ?
I think so, and all those who make "determined" speeches are the ones who contribute to that because they talk the talk but they do not walk the damn walk.  Isis is to Islam what KKK is to Christianity.

The flame is flickering.


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## mikeyB

Isis is to Islam as Mrs May is to Christianity. As you say, Bill we sell arms and technology to the Saudis so they can bomb men, women and children in Yemen. The Saudis have long funded Al Quaida and Daesh. The men who flew the 9/11 planes were Saudis to a man.

The Lib Dem leader, Tim Farron, I have no time for, but he is excoriated and ridiculed for his stated position on gay marriage, and labelled a hypocrite because that conflicts with his Christian values. Yet Mrs May, who touts her Christian values is not. You can't just be  a Christian on a Sunday.


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## Bill Stewardson

You could not make it up, a huge row about police numbers, May rolling out "Enough is enough" Corbyn  taken to task for saying what is plainly obvious.
Cressida Dick rolling out how brilliant the police are, stating that they are arresting "nearly one person a day" in connection with terrorism etc.
Johnson crowing about police numbers being high in London ( does Manchester not exist) and denying that cuts hamper operational activity.
We see on news shows that doors are being kicked down,guns pointed into houses, police storming estates in the hunt for the terrorists, yet ALL THOSE arrested are now released without charge. THREE attacks in three months,,, and again, one of the terrorists was recently featured in a Ch 4 documentary. Was known to the security services.
What is this garbage ? This country is fast become a laughing stock.
Notice how when those in high places are asked a leading question they revert to praising those who were there at the time.
Current scapegoat is the Internet, or the Labour Party.
Utterly totally, demoralisingly predictable and juvenile.


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## MikeTurin

Bill Stewardson said:


> it seems they need a scapegoat and the internet is currently it.  If you "sanitise' the Net (which is not possible) they will use texts, what then ?? After that, letters ?? After that speech ??


By the way from what I've seen all of the latest terrorist were known by the police or the police got statemets about these people. 
The warnings were simply dismissed. Maye some old school cop that follow old style techniques to catch supposed terrorist are working better. 
I suppose that adding controls and recording data from Internet without a warrant will onlly further diluite the useful data in noise. I suppose that in the IRA times nobody proposed to put a tape recorder of every landline in Belfast, but I suppose that activist phones were wiretapped.

In Italy we have just had more than 1500 beople injured only for a panic induced reaction on people following a footbal match in a square.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/04/hundreds-juventus-fans-injured-stampede-turin/ 

So we're at the point tha to scare people nothing has to be done by actual terrorist.


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## Steff

Observed a minutes silence at 11am was in Morrisons at the time, amazing really the staff and shoppers just stood still and not a sound.


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## Amigo

It's so easy to be an 'expert spectator' on these events and I'm as guilty as the next person. It must feel like trying to push the tide back for Police and security services in trying to locate, watch and pre-empt the actions of every radicalised home grown 'terrorist'. After all, Police know the identities of most burglars in the towns and cities but can't follow them every minute of their lives. 
These people survive, prosper and proliferate because they live in a democratic country with personal rights and freedoms but rights they use against us. I absolutely maintain that regulating the oxygen of the internet must be the first step and yes this may impact on all our private freedoms but it may have to be a price worth sacrificing.
YouTube still has extreme hate sermons running today and it fuels and helps to link those with twisted, alienated minds. Worldwide paedophile rings survive and proliferate because of the internet so we can't pretend it's not a major communication aid to the depraved in all forms. I honestly believe that we must address the problem at a technological level. It's only part of the answer, it may only address part of the problem but social media has and is allowing real key board warriors a platform to spew hate and organise themselves globally.


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## ohitsnicola

It is so scary...the fact that they arrested suspects from where I lived 3 months ago in Barking & Dagenham! I was born there and I am so glad I moved away for my Daughter's sake!!! Sick world we live in!!!


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## Stitch147

It all just brings back sad memories for me from 7/7. 
One of my friends from work was at Borough market on Saturday night and saw what happened, he is currently off sick and waiting to see the work trauma support staff. That's probably why I stayed working my garden so much on sunday, I was away from the telly and avoided seeing news reports. Its sad to see that one of the attackers from Saturday night worked for the same company that I do!!! Its scary to think of what he could have done in the workplace!


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## ohitsnicola

Stitch147 said:


> It all just brings back sad memories for me from 7/7.
> One of my friends from work was at Borough market on Saturday night and saw what happened, he is currently off sick and waiting to see the work trauma support staff. That's probably why I stayed working my garden so much on sunday, I was away from the telly and avoided seeing news reports. Its sad to see that one of the attackers from Saturday night worked for the same company that I do!!! Its scary to think of what he could have done in the workplace!


My friend works at Borough market, however she was lucky and left work an hour before it all happened. But none of us knew that till the next morning, so we was all frantic with worry!!


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## Amigo

Stitch147 said:


> It all just brings back sad memories for me from 7/7.
> One of my friends from work was at Borough market on Saturday night and saw what happened, he is currently off sick and waiting to see the work trauma support staff. That's probably why I stayed working my garden so much on sunday, I was away from the telly and avoided seeing news reports. Its sad to see that one of the attackers from Saturday night worked for the same company that I do!!! Its scary to think of what he could have done in the workplace!



Yes that struck me too when I saw he'd worked for TFL Stitch. This is so real and traumatic for those who were caught up in it. Hope your friend feels much better soon though I doubt the horror will ever leave him.


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## Stitch147

Amigo said:


> Yes that struck me too when I saw he'd worked for TFL Stitch. This is so real and traumatic for those who were caught up in it. Hope your friend feels much better soon though I doubt the horror will ever leave him.


7/7 has never left me, you just find ways to cope with it.


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## Northerner

Amigo said:


> It's so easy to be an 'expert spectator' on these events and I'm as guilty as the next person. It must feel like trying to push the tide back for Police and security services in trying to locate, watch and pre-empt the actions of every radicalised home grown 'terrorist'. After all, Police know the identities of most burglars in the towns and cities but can't follow them every minute of their lives.
> These people survive, prosper and proliferate because they live in a democratic country with personal rights and freedoms but rights they use against us. I absolutely maintain that regulating the oxygen of the internet must be the first step and yes this may impact on all our private freedoms but it may have to be a price worth sacrificing.
> YouTube still has extreme hate sermons running today and it fuels and helps to link those with twisted, alienated minds. Worldwide paedophile rings survive and proliferate because of the internet so we can't pretend it's not a major communication aid to the depraved in all forms. I honestly believe that we must address the problem at a technological level. It's only part of the answer, it may only address part of the problem but social media has and is allowing real key board warriors a platform to spew hate and organise themselves globally.


Can't be done, simple as that. This is the world we live in and you can't uninvent the technology, any more than you can unlearn what we know about nuclear physics. As a programmer of over 30 years experience I know that trying to shut down the technology being used would fail, partly because programmers are human and far from infallible, and partly because whatever marvellous system is introduced will be promptly overcome and rendered useless. You can't ban or police mathematics. Mass surveillance of the type that some are suggesting would create the biggest ever haystack hiding the most elusive of needles. Bobbies on the beat would be infinitely more effective and considerably cheaper.


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## Bill Stewardson

Its not about being an "expert spectator", to me, it is about the media spin and plain untruths that are being put forward. On the one hand all and sundry are projecting the superb and brilliant job our heroic security services are doing,,, on the other hand a bloke who appeared in a C4 documentary about terrorists then carries out an appalling atrocity.
So, have C4 got better intelligence than our security agencies ?
I have no doubt that those involved are being pushed beyond reasonable limits, yet the one who brings up cuts to such things is then rubbished.
In the meantime all those who were nabbed in yet another high profile operation are then quietly released without charge.
I really do wish a more sensible and honest approach was put forward, rather than all this spin, it's becoming rather obvious what the bitter truth actually is.


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## grainger

I think rather than blaming who might be the problem or not why don't we concentrate on teaching love, compassion, kindness, generosity etc. 

I knew the second victim (albeit it I hadn't seen him in years). But as his sister said - we can't and shouldn't stoop to their level. 

There must be other solutions. Unfortunately I fear until our country really comes together united the bickering between parties will continue and the truth get buried beneath the propaganda.


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## Amigo

Northerner said:


> Can't be done, simple as that. This is the world we live in and you can't uninvent the technology, any more than you can unlearn what we know about nuclear physics. As a programmer of over 30 years experience I know that trying to shut down the technology being used would fail, partly because programmers are human and far from infallible, and partly because whatever marvellous system is introduced will be promptly overcome and rendered useless. You can't ban or police mathematics. Mass surveillance of the type that some are suggesting would create the biggest ever haystack hiding the most elusive of needles. Bobbies on the beat would be infinitely more effective and considerably cheaper.



I'm certainly not suggesting 'uninventing technology' northie. Hell, my husband had a commercial networking business for over 35 yrs so I'm not coming at this from a position of complete IT naivety. Absolutely agree it won't be easy but it's not acceptable to do nothing. If that were the case we've never tackle viruses on the basis that another one will be along soon. It's beyond incredible that social media hosting 'allows' beheadings and vile hate sermons to remain even when they are aware they're on there. 
GCHQ do mass surveillance now to a level I doubt we'd ever be made aware. It's an area where the cat has to be constantly chasing the mouse no matter how clever the mouse is because the alternatives are unthinkable.
Intelligence services must be strengthened.

I'd love to think bobbies on the beat are a major part of the answer but crime detection rates are poor generally and if they can't find the bike pinched from your shed, I'm not confident that they are the answer to serious extremists (though I do accept that local knowledge including the co-operation of the Muslim communities plays a big part).

I'm as frustrated as anyone that the people apprehended have been set free but unless there's evidence they cannot be held simply for having thoughts and beliefs.


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## macabee

Whilst Theresa May's record on the matter leaves a lot to be desired, it has to be remembered that Corbyn has consistently voted against all anti terror legislation, wanted the dismantling of the security service [a.k.a MI5] met and called hizbollah and hamas 'friends' and supported the IRA and had the inability to refer to the Manchester bombing as a 'terrorist' attack.


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## Bill Stewardson

Also Corbyn did not instigate the axing of 20 000 officers, opposes arms trading, and "supported the IRA" is a bit of a stretch. Political tribalism is not the way to go.

As part of my duties bailiffing the local river I have had reason to ring the police a few times, now here I need to point out that I am not anti police and understand the reasons why, they were not interested, mainly because they had a lot going on. What you actually get is a Community Support Officer a few days later. I suppose that is not the case in London.

Maybe the police are being as brilliantly funded as the NHS is ?


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## MikeTurin

@Amigo: the internet problem is a red herring. The idea of banning crypto simply doesn't work, because bad guys could use unbreakable cryptosystems with a piece of paper and a book with a lot of pages, or talk in code.





To fight terrorism or organized crime one has to fund judges and police and make them work efficently on specialized targets. 

another thing is hate speech on Internet. The problem is that means only available to states or organization with deep pockets now are available to the guy next door, but the base problem is that the money that funds some terror groups arrives from some bigger organization. In one has to quench terrorism (and by the way pedopornograpy is the same thing) is to follow the money and block transactions, that because how the banking system is made is doable.


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## macabee

When looking at how police resources are managed, you only have to look at the millions of pounds wasted and man hours used, when chasing imaginary paedophiles named by a fantasist known only as 'Nick'. How many man [woman] hours used up, completing reams of paperwork.

On another note I am wondering how long it will be before Amnesty calls for an inquiry into the Met police shooting of terrorists calling it  'extra judicial executions' after all they did this when Israeli civilians were being mown down stabbed by islamic jihadist's and when they were subsequently shot and stopped by Israeli police/security personnel.


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## Bill Stewardson

Seems obvious to me that whoever is in Govt, the number one priority has to be police/security services. Whatever resources they need should be provided ASAP, worry about cost another time. Ridiculous PR stunts like machine gun toting police or soldiers wandering around city centres during peak shopping hours is pointless.
Hundreds of millions from selling WMD to the Saudis and we really can't afford an effective police force ??


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## Steff

Now a terror attack in Paris


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## grainger

Bill Stewardson said:


> Seems obvious to me that whoever is in Govt, the number one priority has to be police/security services. Whatever resources they need should be provided ASAP, worry about cost another time. Ridiculous PR stunts like machine gun toting police or soldiers wandering around city centres during peak shopping hours is pointless.
> Hundreds of millions from selling WMD to the Saudis and we really can't afford an effective police force ??



I don't believe that I'm afraid. 

I think education & social welfare need to be a priority. Also the stability of the economy. We need to look further - to educate our children and provide opportunities for them. Education should help to reduce extremism. Of course security is important and I believe our police services should be given a decent budget and not further cuts but ultimately we need to look at how we can stop the younger generations from falling victim to indoctrination. Let's face it, the oldest attacker on Saturday was 30, youngest 22. In Manchester he was 22. 

I'm not saying it will resolve the issues but maybe that would help. Increased security is reactive, it's not searching and challenging how these people became to believe what they did and why. If we could stop that then maybe we have a hope.


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## Bill Stewardson

Stability of the Economy ????

Bombs going off in pop concerts, stability of the economy ???


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## grainger

Bill Stewardson said:


> Stability of the Economy ????
> 
> Bombs going off in pop concerts, stability of the economy ???



Yes, sorry but a stable economy would mean that there are opportunities for people. People with opportunities are surely less likely to blow themselves up? I'm just trying to look deeper than being completely reactive. Having security as I said is incredibly important but we need to also look at the root problem. 

Not trying to offend. Just my opinion.


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## Amigo

Steff said:


> Now a terror attack in Paris



When did this happen Steff?


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## grovesy

Amigo said:


> When did this happen Steff?


This afternoon about 1 1/2 hour ago.


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## Amigo

grovesy said:


> This afternoon about 1 1/2 hour ago.



Oh dear, I've been out. I'll catch up now.


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## mikeyB

Wow, a horrific incident in Paris. Someone attacked a policeman with a hammer, and was shot dead for his trouble. The policeman suffered minor injuries. The authorities call this a terrorist incident. I call it a bit of an over reaction.


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## Amigo

mikeyB said:


> Wow, a horrific incident in Paris. Someone attacked a policeman with a hammer, and was shot dead for his trouble. The policeman suffered minor injuries. The authorities call this a terrorist incident. I call it a bit of an over reaction.



Hardly surprising though Mike. People are on edge at the moment and a hammer and kitchen knives can do plenty of damage. Is the attacker dead now? Last I heard he hadn't been shot dead and has been taken to hospital.


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## Bill Stewardson

Grainger, seems like your trying to fly the Tory flag.


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## Amigo

Bill Stewardson said:


> Grainger, seems like your trying to fly the Tory flag.



I think it's important to remember that regardless of what political flavour our views are or what measures we think need to be taken, we are all on the side of peace and stability and are outraged at the actions of these radicalised hooligans.


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## grainger

Bill Stewardson said:


> Grainger, seems like your trying to fly the Tory flag.



Somewhat doubtful considering the Tories are trying to destroy education in this country - removing school meals, bringing in a stupid number of academies which are all about profit and nothing about the children. Grammar schools - not exactly all inclusive now are they. 
Hmmm... social welfare - can't see the tories doing anything nice there 
Oh wait... yep the economy - highest debt, aid for the rich & sod the poor, yep - I do believe they stand for everything I believe in


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## grainger




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## Steff

Let's remember we are all entitled to our views and choices.  

@Amigo think grovesy answered was a hammer involved i think


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## grainger

im genuinely confused how any of my statements could have been confused with a Tory voter?!


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## grainger

Steff said:


> Let's remember we are all entitled to our views and choices.
> 
> @Amigo think grovesy answered was a hammer involved i think



Sorry. Just needed to make it clear I am not a Tory voter (I'm quite passionate about that). But agreed everyone has their own views and opinions. My intention wasn't to discredit them.


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## Steff

grainger said:


> Sorry. Just needed to make it clear I am not a Tory voter (I'm quite passionate about that). But agreed everyone has their own views and opinions. My intention wasn't to discredit them.


Hi  @grainger my comment wasn't aimed at you solely hun xx


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## Hazel

People, people enough - there is enough politics on TV and in the newspapers.

This thread was for the London attack on Saturday night.

Let's not all fall out, please.


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## Amigo

grainger said:


> im genuinely confused how any of my statements could have been confused with a Tory voter?!



I must admit I am too grainger but left it to you to comment  It's most certainly the Labour Party who are championing social welfare and equality in education. Just wish it wasn't Corbyn leading the charge though!


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## Amigo

Hazel said:


> People, people enough - there is enough politics on TV and in the newspapers.
> 
> This thread was for the London attack on Saturday night.
> 
> Let's not all fall out, please.



You're right it's strayed off topic Hazel but I'm not falling out with anyone over this. Not for one minute...we stand together


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## mikeyB

Yes, off topic indeed. It shouldn't be political, but politicians make it so.


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## Bill Stewardson

Simple, the Tory answer to everything is the need for a stronger economy.
Which is why when that was said in the thread I linked it to the Tory way.

I did not say anybody is a Tory voter, and, if they were that's up to them.

I still don't see how us having a strong economy would impact on Jihadis.


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