# Very  confused T2 Newbie



## Granny72 (Jul 27, 2019)

Seems the more I read the more confused I get. 
Just read my first post and it was on Potatoes.  Very interesting to read but everyone seems to have different views and ways of dealing with their T2. 
I have always been a healthy eater with a vegetarian diet. so a lot of what we have to eat is very similar to what I already eat, but my weight never shifted.  Now, by watching  carbs and sugars in carbs, I have lost both weeks since my diagnosis. (3 weeks ago)  But after all these years of low calorie dieting, I am finding it hard reading posts that are saying ''have butter/have cream'' etc .   Is this right?  Do I have to up the fat content?  I thought that would make me add weight instead of trying to lose it. 
It's 2am and my brain is going round and round with all this stuff. I already have loads going on to cope with and brain is saying enough is enough  
I have ME/CFS.  3 small strokes.   Parkinsons.  Fibromyalgia. and Osteoarthritis. Now this. 
Not sure how to carry on with all this new sorting out of meds/foods etc. Brain is already puddled with strokes and Parkinsons.  
Boght the book Carbs and cals from Diabetes UK but diabetes nurse said it is aimed at type 1 diabetes. 
Wish they would do some lrge, laminated, Flash cards with the most basic lowest carb items so I can just refer quickly to them. 
Have been given Metformin to start 1 a day this morning, but have had such negative feedback from friends on FB saying they will give me a bad tummy and trots that I am now scared to even try them. 
Sorry this is long. I am at my wits end with all going on in my body. I already find it hard to get up and dress and get moving in the mornings and this has just about taken away all my positive attitude that I have used to cope with all the other things. 
Any help would be good. I am not a picker or snacker, Don't like cakes/sweets/chocolate etc. No longer drink alcohol due to Parkinsons meds.  but help with this added fat thingy would be good as it seems to go against what the diabetic nurse was saying. 
Thanks everyone. Up early and it is going to be a Long day me thinks x


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## Northerner (Jul 27, 2019)

Hi Granny72, welcome to the forum  I'm sorry to hear about your diagnosis, how did it come about? Have you been given any medication for it? It can be very confusing at first, but don't worry things will become clearer, I promise! 

The reason for the confusion is often, as you have said, that there appears to be a lot of conflicting information, so it can be difficult to sort out what works for you as an individual, as we can have our own individual tolerances for the same items (like the potatoes you mention) - this is partly due to the gut bacteria we all carry that helps to digest our food and is unique in every person. For a good, plain introduction that has stood the test of time I would recommend reading Maggie Davey's letter (click on it). I'd also recommend getting hold of a copy of the excellent Type 2 Diabetes: The First Year by Gretchen Becker, which will guide you through the early weeks and months and is written in a very positive style  The Carbs and Cals book will be useful to you - it's not just for Type 1 - it gives you at-a-glance information about the quantity of carbohydrates in many common meals and food items, and this is useful to know as you may wish to stick to the lower carb items, so you haven't wasted your money! 

Principally, the main item to be concerned about is carbohydrates, as these are what will raise your blood sugar levels the most. Fatty items like cream and butter actually slow the digestion of carbohydrates and thus can slow the impact of them on your levels, and fat will not raise your blood sugar levels. Don't be unduly concerned about calories, as you have discovered it is (again) the carbohydrates that are involved in weight gain, and reducing them can result in weight loss - contrary to the advice of the past 30+ years that everything must be low-fat 

Probably the best way to get to grips with everything is to learn about your own body's tolerances for your different food choices by using a blood glucose meter. If you haven't been given one it is worth getting your own -  the cheapest option we have come across is the SD Codefree Meter which has test strips at around £8 for 50. Have a read of Test,Review, Adjust by Alan S to understand how to use the meter efficiently and effectively 

I hope this helps to set you off on the right track and dispels some of the confusion  If you have ANY questions or concerns, please ask away and we will be more than happy to help - no question is considered 'silly'!


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## Granny72 (Jul 27, 2019)

Thank you so much Northerner. You have reassured me quite a lot just by being there and reading my post. 
As I put in my post, I Have been given Metformin to start,  1 a day, but have heard some nasty side effects come with it so am a bit nervous to adding it to my already full meds box. 
I have had a look at the book 'carbs n cals and it looks pretty useful on giving not only carb counts but plate sizes too. 
Been awake since just after 1am so will need some granny naps I think today.  
Thanks again for your help and I will click on those links later and have a read x


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## grovesy (Jul 27, 2019)

Many add cream , butter and nuts to increase the fats to help stave off hunger. I don't eat nuts as they affect my IBS. I don't do cream and have very little butter, as I don't like it. I do ear cheese.Sometimes it is how much of what you eat that can make a difference. You have to find what works for you and can maintain most of the time, otherwise I find it is not sustainable.  
If you get problems with Metformin let your medics know .


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## Eddy Edson (Jul 27, 2019)

Hi Granny72 - Welcome!

Don't be scared of Metformin - it'd be a crying shame if you didn't try it just because of on-line comments. Remember, people who don't have probs with meds don't complain, so you hear nothing from them.

Many people have some temporary minor stomach issues with Met, fading after a week or so. Most people don't have any longer term issues. If you're one of the minority who don't tolerate it well, yr HCP's can try something else. But it is generally the most effective and safest oral med for T2D, and it has a bunch of potential side-benefits apart from blood glucose management.

All the best.


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## Northerner (Jul 27, 2019)

Granny72 said:


> As I put in my post, I Have been given Metformin to start, 1 a day, but have heard some nasty side effects come with it so am a bit nervous to adding it to my already full meds box


Oops! Sorry, I missed that! The side effects of metformin generally subside after a week or two, but if you find you really can't tolerate it there is a 'slow-release' version that you can ask for, that many people find much more tolerable


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## SueEK (Jul 27, 2019)

Hi Granny72 and welcome to a very helpful, informative and friendly forum. You will get all the help you need here as people have so much experience. The others are right in that we are all different with other medical issues that affect us and our diabetes. Personally I would say see if you can get on with the Metformin, I had problems with nausea which was awful but just by changing the times that I took it sorted out the problem. Depending on what your blood glucose level was when diagnosed will determine how strict you ought to be with your diet, do you know what it was. I went very low carb to begin with but this didn’t really suit me so now I am more flexible. I have cut back a lot on things like potatoes, rice, pasta and bread and cut out things with pastry such as pork pies, quiche etc (I did love my carbs). Diabetes is very individual and what foods suit one don’t suit another but if you are confused or unsure just ask us, that is what we are all here for, to help and support each other. Xx


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## Jodee (Jul 27, 2019)

Welcome Granny72

To make things a little more simple, just reduce the portion size of your starch carbs, ie bread, pastry, rice potatoes and I think butternut squash is high in carbs, you can have them but make the portions smaller and go for brown bread*, rice and pasta instead of the white versions.  Fats and protein is very important especially if on very low or no carbs.  So generally its, reduce carbs, reduce portion size and exercise daily, that could just be 2 x 10-20 min walks that will be up to you, yoga, taichi etc.  The Cals & Carb book by Diabetes UK is useful as it shows pictural size or portions and lists the carbs in foods. 

https://shop.diabetes.org.uk/produc...311.785783652.1564126969-794306892.1554973474

Amazon also sell this book.

*Sainsbury's sell Burgen Bread (a seedy loaf) which is lower carb) you may want to try.

I found the Metformin once daily easy to tolerate so don't worry about that.

Have a nice catch up on the snoozing and rest assured all will work itself out.

Best wishes Jodee


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## Kopiert (Jul 27, 2019)

Hi Granny 72.

I was diagnosed about 4 months ago, and like you was very confused. I also had a very dismissive nurse, whom I have completely ignored!

My experience is that counting my carbs has, I believe, really helped me, and the book has been instrumental in that. I also bought a meter (against the advice of my nurse) and have found that an essential ally. I now know for example that I can eat a couple of potatoes (occasionally ) without it have too much impact. Pasta and rice however, both have a significant impact. As for Metformin I think I suffered less than most, but I still get the odd..ahem..moment, but it has mostly settled down. But the upside is better than high bloods, so worth at least trying.

Good luck

Nick


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## Drummer (Jul 27, 2019)

As a vegetarian you do not have as many options as those with fish, meat, eggs etc. but there are those who have managed to get their blood glucose down on a plant based diet, thought they do have to ensure they are getting supplements so they can cope.
Many of the 'truths' about what constitutes a healthy diet are proving to have feet of clay - when they are tested, they fail. This is despiite it having been known that eating carbohydrate causes the release of insulin to prevent glucose levels in the blood rising too high. The glucose is moved into cells and stored as fat. Without the insulin, and the glucose which triggers its release, fat is not laid down - so eating protein and fat is likely to result in a weight loss, not gain, and it is body fat, not muscle which is lost.


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## Ralph-YK (Jul 27, 2019)

Drummer said:


> Without the insulin, and the glucose which triggers its release, fat is not laid down - so eating protein and fat is likely to result in a weight loss, not gain


Have you got a reference you can point me to please.


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## Granny72 (Jul 27, 2019)

Thank you all so much for your help. I will read and re-read your posts and take advice. 
Because I have been up since 1am with my brain going round and round, my tiredness and muddled brain from Parkinsons has 
given me a bad day and I feel more confused than ever.  I find it hard to concentrate too long with Parkinsons so am trying to grasp 
it but today, several times, I felt ''whats the point'' and had a tear or two.  
I know I have lost a bit of weight in the 3 weeks since I saw the nurse, but that doesn't mean I am helping the diabetes. 
I have swapped rice krispies and cornflakes (which I used to think were the plainest) for Bitesize  Shredded wheat and Weetabix, 
but looking in the book they are still looking high in carbs to me!   Just how many carbs per meal is a good number?    
and no, I couldn't just eat One weetabix. I would still be hungry, and what do you do then?   I have the Shredded wheat with drained tinned 
peach slices but know my bowl is too full.   I have to feel full up to be able to settle so will try and wittle the amount down. But get shaky from the 
Parkinsons if I am hungry. 
All the carb numbers are in green so that means Go, but there must be a recommended amount of carbs per meal.  That is the sort of guide 
I need. xx


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## Ditto (Jul 27, 2019)

Hello and welcome to the forum.  Could you have eggs for breakfast? They'll keep you full till lunch-time.


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## Granny72 (Jul 27, 2019)

I don't know how to do the "Quote" box so  will just type. 
Firstly thanks again everyone. 
Anitram,  I would not last till lunchtime on just 1 weetabix.   and as for 130g a day for carbs, I'm not sure I am anywhere near that but will tot up what I do have and take that as a base. 

Ditto,  yes I have eggs for brekkie every day.  That's my main start to the day. Used to have 2 each morning with Ryvitas, but now I 
make an omlette with chopped tomato, mushrooms, spinach, peppers, onions, and garlic with Ryvitas.   Keeps me full till lunch.


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## Granny72 (Jul 27, 2019)

Only 2 eggs. rest is veg


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## Ditto (Jul 27, 2019)

That is a fabulous omelette, how do you get it out of the pan, I always have to break mine up.


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## Granny72 (Jul 27, 2019)

Ditto  I have to most times as well, but it still is scrummy


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## Drummer (Jul 27, 2019)

Ralph-YK said:


> Have you got a reference you can point me to please.


A Biology text book maybe - it is not something new - just ignored for decades.


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## Drummer (Jul 27, 2019)

Granny72 said:


> Thank you all so much for your help. I will read and re-read your posts and take advice.
> Because I have been up since 1am with my brain going round and round, my tiredness and muddled brain from Parkinsons has
> given me a bad day and I feel more confused than ever.  I find it hard to concentrate too long with Parkinsons so am trying to grasp
> it but today, several times, I felt ''whats the point'' and had a tear or two.
> ...


Ouch - yes - all high carb choices - An added disadvantage is that the insulin reduces your blood glucose down to levels where you are feeling hungry again very soon after eating.
Do you have a protein source you could add to a big salad perhaps? In this hot weather my first meal is a bag of salad, coleslaw, radishes cucumber celery tomato (I just go through the fridge and tip things in) cress needs to be snipped off, walnuts, sweet pepper, oil and vinegar dressing, a sprinkle of various herbs, I just select one at random for variety - then I would add boiled eggs and cheese, or meat or fish.
Once I have eaten that I am not hungry until evening, though I often have coffee with cream - but coconut oil is also an option as a sort of 'keto energy drink'.


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## rebrascora (Jul 27, 2019)

Hi and welcome from me too.

The omelette is a great choice for breakfast and probably buch better than shredded wheat or Weetabix. Try adding cheese to it with your veg as that is more filling and instead of the Ryvita, try having a plate of mixed salad leaves with a couple of cherry tomatoes, cucumber and avocado is also great for adding healthy fat and fibre. The salad takes some chewing and eating which helps you to feel like you have had a substantial meal without the need for carbs.... many people are quite insulin resistant in the morning so it makes sense to avoid carbs at that time of day.  
Make sure to take the Metformin with a substantial meal (like your omelette) and I find that eating most of the meal and then taking the tablet and then finishing the meal helps prevent the upset stomach side effects or at least reduces them. They usually subside after a few weeks but I will still get an "explosive" day every once in a while when I "splatter the porcelain" There is sometimes a beneficial side effect to the Metformin in that it can act as an appetite suppressant.
When I have my big plate of omelette and salad for breakfast, I usually manage on a few nuts/olives and a chunk of cheese for lunch and then have a proper dinner in the evening with meat or fish and lots of leafy veg and 2-3 pieces of potato or a small portion of wholemeal pasta and that is my main portion of carbs for the day. Creamy Greek yoghurt with berries like raspberries makes a nice dessert. Lidl do the lowest carb yoghurt I have found at 3.2g/100g and it comes in a 1kg bucket. Big 200g bags of unsalted nuts at Lidl are also very reasonable. I like the brazils which again are the lowest carbs of the nut varieties I have seen but they also do a 200g bag of mixed nuts if you prefer variety.

Many of us have had that horrible teary feeling of being overwhelmed every now and again, so it is perfectly normal to suffer that following your diagnosis even without all the other ailments you have to deal with. When you are feeling like that, come on here and have a good rant or ask for support.... that is what we are here for... to support each other through the difficult times and rejoice in each other's successes! It is a bit of a roller coaster ride in the beginning, but it does get easier as you figure out what to buy in your weekly shop and how to cook to cater for your new dietary needs. And be prepared to experiment with new foods.... it is an excellent opportunity to expand your palette to find new favourite foods..... for instance, I just discovered that I like blue cheese having hated it for the first 55 years of my life!

Good luck with figuring it out. I could happily eat 4 slices of wholemeal bread and butter with a whole tin of baked beans for lunch and a box of Cadbury's cream eggs without pausing for breath prior to diagnosis. Now I don't eat beans or bread and very occasionally a tiny square of dark chocolate and I really don't miss all those carbs.... and I was only struck with the D label in February, so it has been quite a radical transformation and I feel so much better for it. Most of us are happy with our new diet once we get our head around it but these first few months are difficult. We are here to support you through it. Sending hugs to you!


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## KARNAK (Jul 27, 2019)

Hello @Granny72 how are you today? I shall not add anything else other than welcome to our lovely community, take care we are here for you.xx


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## Granny72 (Jul 28, 2019)

Drummer said:


> Ouch - yes - all high carb choices - An added disadvantage is that the insulin reduces your blood glucose down to levels where you are feeling hungry again very soon after eating.
> Do you have a protein source you could add to a big salad perhaps? In this hot weather my first meal is a bag of salad, coleslaw, radishes cucumber celery tomato (I just go through the fridge and tip things in) cress needs to be snipped off, walnuts, sweet pepper, oil and vinegar dressing, a sprinkle of various herbs, I just select one at random for variety - then I would add boiled eggs and cheese, or meat or fish.
> Once I have eaten that I am not hungry until evening, though I often have coffee with cream - but coconut oil is also an option as a sort of 'keto energy drink'.


So if this is your first meal and then you are not hungry till the evening, when do you have this meal?  I will have a salad at lunchtime but woud need a breakfast first thing which is normally an omelette.    
I was told you had to have 3 meals a day and I know I couldn't last right till the evening with just a salad.


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## Granny72 (Jul 28, 2019)

rebrascora said:


> Hi and welcome from me too.
> 
> The omelette is a great choice for breakfast and probably buch better than shredded wheat or Weetabix. Try adding cheese to it with your veg as that is more filling and instead of the Ryvita, try having a plate of mixed salad leaves with a couple of cherry tomatoes, cucumber and avocado is also great for adding healthy fat and fibre. The salad takes some chewing and eating which helps you to feel like you have had a substantial meal without the need for carbs.... many people are quite insulin resistant in the morning so it makes sense to avoid carbs at that time of day.
> Make sure to take the Metformin with a substantial meal (like your omelette) and I find that eating most of the meal and then taking the tablet and then finishing the meal helps prevent the upset stomach side effects or at least reduces them. They usually subside after a few weeks but I will still get an "explosive" day every once in a while when I "splatter the porcelain" There is sometimes a beneficial side effect to the Metformin in that it can act as an appetite suppressant.
> ...


I don't think I would last if I just had salad with my brekkie omelette.  How do you stay full without some sort of bread/Ryvita/potato etc?  
I would normally have the weetabix at tea time (5pm ish). Omelette for brekkie, salad at lunchtime, cereals at tea/dinner time.


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## Ralph-YK (Jul 28, 2019)

Granny72 said:


> I have swapped rice krispies and cornflakes (which I used to think were the plainest) for Bitesize Shredded wheat and Weetabix,
> but looking in the book they are still looking high in carbs to me! Just how many carbs per meal is a good number?


I don't know a number. This is where my usual advice, to self test, comes in. It would show you what affect any of your meals have on your BG, as well as any changes you make. Keep a food diary, along with a record of your levels. After a couple of weeks you should be able to start seeing a pattern.

A cooked breakfast (eggs, bacon, been, etc, even a piece of toast & hash brown) raises my BG less than mini shredded wheat. Though then you might have to start considering caleries and & extra fat intake.

You could try boiled eggs and a pitta bread. (Still some carbs; not as much of a rise as with ceriel though.)


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## rebrascora (Jul 28, 2019)

Granny72 said:


> I don't think I would last if I just had salad with my brekkie omelette.  How do you stay full without some sort of bread/Ryvita/potato etc?
> I would normally have the weetabix at tea time (5pm ish). Omelette for brekkie, salad at lunchtime, cereals at tea/dinner time.



The thing is that you don't know unless you try. Having cheese in the omelette and avocado with the salad, which both provide fats, help to make it more filling and provide slow release energy. I was as addicted to carbs, and bread in particular, as anyone, but once you get used to not eating them you realise you don't need them. They are certainly not necessary to feel full. I find that once you cut the carbs out, your body stops craving them. I feel it is incredibly liberating to be free of those cravings.
Keeping busy so that you don't think about wanting to eat, certainly helps. Housework and gardening are great ways of occupying yourself and getting gentle exercise, both of which help to bring BG levels down and keep you from snacking, but if you do still feel hungry, eat a few nuts.
It is probably better to eat the Weetabix at tea time than in the morning when people tend to be more insulin resistant and I understand that being vegetarian makes things a little more difficult for you so I can see how having cereal on a night simplifies things, but if you can cut the Ryvita on a morning it might make a significant difference to your BG levels.


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## Ralph-YK (Jul 28, 2019)

rebrascora said:


> and I understand that being vegetarian makes things a little more difficult


Missed that. Sorry.


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## Eddy Edson (Jul 28, 2019)

Ralph-YK said:


> Have you got a reference you can point me to please.



It's an Atkins-type hypothesis which has been fairly solidly refuted. See eg Kevin D. Hall, lead obesity researcher at for the US NIH: https://undark.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/02/HallEJCN2017-1.pdf 

_The carbohydrate–insulin model of obesity theorizes that diets high in carbohydrate are particularly fattening due to their propensity to elevate insulin secretion. Insulin directs the partitioning of energy toward storage as fat in adipose tissue and away from oxidation by metabolically active tissues and purportedly results in a perceived state of cellular internal starvation. In response, hunger and appetite increases and metabolism is suppressed, thereby promoting the positive energy balance associated with the development of obesity. Several logical consequences of this carbohydrate–insulin model of obesity were recently investigated in a pair of carefully controlled inpatient feeding studies whose results failed to support key model predictions. Therefore, important aspects of carbohydrate–insulin model have been experimentally falsified suggesting that the model is too simplistic. This review describes the current state of the carbohydrate–insulin model and the implications of its recent experimental tests._


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## Drummer (Jul 28, 2019)

Granny72 said:


> So if this is your first meal and then you are not hungry till the evening, when do you have this meal?  I will have a salad at lunchtime but woud need a breakfast first thing which is normally an omelette.
> I was told you had to have 3 meals a day and I know I couldn't last right till the evening with just a salad.


Yes - that is my first meal when I get up. It is a large salad - today with a couple of eggs and mozzarella cheese. 
I have never been told that I need to eat a set number of times a day, so I just went with how I felt - I was very ill taking Metformin and Atorvastatin, and used to go out in the morning without eating anything - get my errands done and then come home and eat, take the tablets and could not do anything much for the rest of the day.
Once I gave up on the tablets I was testing my blood glucose and found that not eating in the morning was elevating my levels, so I moved my first meal of the day earlier - but as I found that I was not hungry at lunch time I simply did not eat.


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## Ralph-YK (Jul 29, 2019)

Drummer said:


> Once I gave up on the tablets I was testing my blood glucose and found that not eating in the morning was elevating my levels,


I've heard it said that our bodys think we need some glucose in our blood in the morning to help us start doing things; so it dumps a load into our blood stream. And that if we eat something, our body thinks it can stop.


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## Granny72 (Jul 31, 2019)

Thanks everyone.  Yesterday was a bad day and I crashed out. Couldn't cope. Couldn't remember anything I had been told. 
Just a complete brain shut down. 
I see everyone has put all their dates and meds and readings at the bottom of their posts. I must go and find out how to do that and maybe then 
folk can advise me better. 
I cannot concentrate for very long as I also have Parkinsons, along with ME/CFS, Fibromyalgia, Osteoarthritis, and have had 3 small strokes. 
Exercise is almost out. I do stroll with my little dog with my wheelie, for 10 minute bursts, stop, then go again, usually around 15/20 mins twice a day. 
All I know is that when I eat, I then fall asleep. For a long time they thought I may have diabetes, but the tests always came back negative. 
This is now 1am, and I have not gone off to sleep yet, even though I can hardly keep my eyes open.  Don't get too many of these, tend more to go to sleep around 10pm and wake around 4 or 5am. 
I think if I ever got to Type 1 and had to inject etc, then that would finish me off and I just couldn't cope with that and would just give up totally. 
In my 70's.  On my own.  Family deserted me when I became ill with Parkinson's. Said THEY couldn't cope with it and really I think they didn't believe 
I had anything wrong. 
Anyway. Enough moaning, I have it, I have added it to all my other things, and will just have to get on with it.  
Sorry for venting but now I have said it maybe I can try again to get some sleep. 
Thanks again everyone x


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## Nomad722 (Jul 31, 2019)

Welcome to the forum Granny72.


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## Ralph-YK (Jul 31, 2019)

Granny72 said:


> I think if I ever got to Type 1 and had to inject etc,


Just to say, T2 doesn't become T1. And needing to inject insulin doesn't make you T1 (even though T1s need to inject insulin).


Granny72 said:


> Yesterday was a bad day and I crashed out. Couldn't cope. Couldn't remember anything I had been told.
> Just a complete brain shut down.


It happens to plenty of us.


Granny72 said:


> All I know is that when I eat, I then fall asleep.


Could be several things or a combination. If you get your BG down that certainly may help.


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