# Libre's



## Kaylz (Jan 6, 2021)

Have any of the NHS funded folks received the Libre 2 yet? I see some on Facebook diabetes groups have so just wondering if any of us lot have yet?

Self funders - The Libre 2 is now available to purchase from the Abbott webshop in case you didn't know
xx


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## helli (Jan 6, 2021)

I am a NHS funded folk and have not received one, yet.
I am reading differing reports whether the Libre 2 needs to be explicitly requested on the prescription or not.


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## Robin (Jan 6, 2021)

I only just got my NHS Libre 1 funded, and at the training webinar (which was run by Abbott and a doctor from the Oxford hospital) right at the end of November, there was no mention of the Libre 2 coming. I’ve read somewhere that they will roll it out in our area to everyone as and when they have their next hospital reviews. Mine isn’t til June, so I’m not expecting one any time soon.


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## Kaylz (Jan 6, 2021)

Some have been switched automatically as soon as it's become available in their area and others have had to get in touch with their GP, when I was speaking to my DSN via email in November she told me there were no plans as to when it would be rolled out in my area, I'm half tempted to use my Christmas money to buy one and see if it would be more beneficial for me xx


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## mikeyB (Jan 6, 2021)

Abbott told me that Libre 2 would be available from January, and would be notifying all GPs and clinics of the switch. They just had to be sure of supplies.

 I’m a self funder, so when I install my last sensor I’ll be making the switch. My clinic are happy to tell my GP to prescribe it, but I can’t be arsed  to get involved with that, as long as I can buy Libre 2 sensors 6 at a time.


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## khskel (Jan 6, 2021)

I won't be changing anytime soon. I just got an initial supply of 6 months worth promptly followed by another 6 months worth.


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## Ljc (Jan 6, 2021)

Thanks for this @Kaylz . I will order this when I need to order more sensors.


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## Amity Island (Jan 6, 2021)

Kaylz said:


> Have any of the NHS funded folks received the Libre 2 yet? I see some on Facebook diabetes groups have so just wondering if any of us lot have yet?
> 
> Self funders - The Libre 2 is now available to purchase from the Abbott webshop in case you didn't know
> xx


Hi Kaylz,

When I put in my repeat prescription request a few days ago I left a note for my gp to switch me to libre 2. I also sent them this link explaining that it is NHS funded and widely available from Jan onwards.

All I need now is a libre 2 reader? Is this on prescription or should I call my hospital team for a free device or is it self funded?









						FreeStyle Libre 2 system gets NHS Drug Tariff approval - The Diabetes Times
					

The second generation of the FreeStyle Libre system has been approved and added to the NHS Drug Tariff for England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland from November.




					diabetestimes.co.uk


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## Kaylz (Jan 6, 2021)

@Amity Island I don't do repeat prescriptions so I can't try and obtain it that way

I don't know what you'd do for a reader, I would chance your luck getting in touch with Abbott and explaining that you receive them on prescription and where would you obtain one, with any luck they might upgrade the reader themselves xx


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## Bruce Stephens (Jan 6, 2021)

Kaylz said:


> I don't know what you'd do for a reader


They've thought of that:






						FSL2 Replacement - Blood Glucose Monitoring System | FreeStyle Libre 2
					

Why prick when you can scan? Convenient, easy, discreet and user friendly, find out more about the FreeStyle Libre 2 glucose monitoring system.



					www.freestylelibre.co.uk


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## MarkGeordie (Jan 6, 2021)

I have a telephone appointment booked in on the 18th with the DSN, so I’m going to ask if they have plans to switch us.

Side note, how long does funding last?


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## Kaylz (Jan 6, 2021)

MarkGeordie said:


> I have a telephone appointment booked in on the 18th with the DSN, so I’m going to ask if they have plans to switch us.
> 
> Side note, how long does funding last?


Initially it's usually a 6 month trial and then reviewed, I didn't really get that, my consultant just told me after 8-9 months that he wasn't going to take it off me, you should have been told when you were first prescribed it xx


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## Bruce Stephens (Jan 6, 2021)

Kaylz said:


> Initially it's usually a 6 month trial and then reviewed,


Mine was that (starting July 2019). I've no idea whether it's been reviewed or not but for the moment it's still on my prescription (and my GP seems happy) so I'm not asking too many questions.


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## MarkGeordie (Jan 6, 2021)

Kaylz said:


> Initially it's usually a 6 month trial and then reviewed, I didn't really get that, my consultant just told me after 8-9 months that he wasn't going to take it off me, you should have been told when you were first prescribed it xx



Mine was issued March, but because of covid no one informed me until June, so it wasn’t collected until June and added to my repeat. No review as of yet, maybe that’s why the DSN wants to talk in a few weeks, I’ll have to see.


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## AndBreathe (Jan 6, 2021)

Kaylz said:


> Some have been switched automatically as soon as it's become available in their area and others have had to get in touch with their GP, when I was speaking to my DSN via email in November she told me there were no plans as to when it would be rolled out in my area, I'm half tempted to use my Christmas money to buy one and see if it would be more beneficial for me xx


According to Partha Kar, on Twitter, those receiving the Libre at the moment will go over onto the Libre 2, in due course.

I imagine much would depend on what the pharmacy and their related chain have in stock.  I doubt they'd throw any away, given any form of choice.


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## Amity Island (Jan 6, 2021)

Bruce Stephens said:


> They've thought of that:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Bruce,
All done. Rang G.P (as required on abbotts order form) to get confirmation that G.P can update their script to Libre 2. Placed order within my abbott account from your link. I'm not interested in the libre link ap, so just got the straight forward new reader in post for use next week. Brilliant!


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## Kaylz (Jan 6, 2021)

Amity Island said:


> All done. Rang G.P (as required on abbotts order form) to get confirmation that G.P can update their script to Libre 2.


  may I ask who you spoke to at the GP as if that's a requirement I'll need to do that and the reception staff aren't the most knowledgeable about anything diabetes related, I called to see about having my BG strips changed to another brand and the receptionist kept refusing to let me talk to anyone and just kept repeating they had a meter there I could pick up and try out (one of the ones issued to Type 2's on our prescribing list) xx


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## nonethewiser (Jan 6, 2021)

One sensor left after current one, going to ring pharmacy to check if 2 is available from supplier, if so all good.


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## Amity Island (Jan 6, 2021)

Kaylz said:


> may I ask who you spoke to at the GP as if that's a requirement I'll need to do that and the reception staff aren't the most knowledgeable about anything diabetes related, I called to see about having my BG strips changed to another brand and the receptionist kept refusing to let me talk to anyone and just kept repeating they had a meter there I could pick up and try out (one of the ones issued to Type 2's on our prescribing list) xx


Hi Kaylz,
I requested the change by adding a note to my last prescription online. I rang receptionist today and he said no problem!
Fingers crossed. I only rang to get that "confirmation" so I could proceed with the abbott order. I might end up ringing the drs again, but for now at least, the libre 2 is ordered.


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## trophywench (Jan 7, 2021)

Ah - my DSN at the hospital D clinic who I saw this morning, said they hadn't heard anything more about it (than the original it will be available in January) from anyone so I know as much as she does/they do.  Their plan is to contact everyone they know uses it and their GP, to tell them to change the scrip to Libre 2.


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## Kaylz (Jan 7, 2021)

I emailed my consultant last night to get an automatic reply saying he was on leave and wouldn't be replying to emails, he replied at near 11pm though  he said he hasn't been engaged in what is going on as he's been diverted to covid for the last 12 months (not strictly 12 months though as I saw him late on in January) and he's not aware of how swapping over is going to be but he'd try and find out what the team knew xx


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## grovesy (Jan 7, 2021)

Kaylz said:


> I emailed my consultant last night to get an automatic reply saying he was on leave and wouldn't be replying to emails, he replied at near 11pm though  he said he hasn't been engaged in what is going on as he's been diverted to covid for the last 12 months (not strictly 12 months though as I saw him late on in January) and he's not aware of how swapping over is going to be but he'd try and find out what the team knew xx


Partha Kar did tweet yesterday that many in Diabetic Departments are been diverted to other areas of Hospital's again.


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## Ivostas66 (Jan 7, 2021)

I would be interested to know when the Libre 3 is available as it sounds like a game changer; a CGM that people have been crying out for, unlike the Libre 2, which apparently has a number of flaws and isn't a huge improvement on the original Libre. I'd be interested to know if anyone on here has any knowledge/ experience of the Libre 2.


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## Kaylz (Jan 7, 2021)

@Ivostas66 I know @Paulbreen has experience of the Libre 2, he has a thread about it but I haven't had the chance to go through it but he may also offer some input on this thread xx


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## grovesy (Jan 7, 2021)

Ivostas66 said:


> I would be interested to know when the Libre 3 is available as it sounds like a game changer; a CGM that people have been crying out for, unlike the Libre 2, which apparently has a number of flaws and isn't a huge improvement on the original Libre. I'd be interested to know if anyone on here has any knowledge/ experience of the Libre 2.


I would not think the 3 is going to be here any time soon here, it has took them long enough to release the 2!


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## Ivostas66 (Jan 7, 2021)

grovesy said:


> I would not think the 3 is going to be here any time soon here, it has took them long enough to release the 2!


I read recently that it was approved in Europe back in September, but not heard anything since. It will cost the same as the previous iterations, but looks like the device we have all been crying out for. I have heard that some people with the Libre 2 pair it with a Bubble or MiaoMiao, which does much of what the Libre 3 is going to do.


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## Kaylz (Jan 7, 2021)

Ivostas66 said:


> I have heard that some people with the Libre 2 pair it with a Bubble or MiaoMiao


People have done this with the Libre 1 since it was released


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## Lucyr (Jan 7, 2021)

Ivostas66 said:


> I would be interested to know when the Libre 3 is available as it sounds like a game changer; a CGM that people have been crying out for, unlike the Libre 2, which apparently has a number of flaws and isn't a huge improvement on the original Libre. I'd be interested to know if anyone on here has any knowledge/ experience of the Libre 2.


Not sure what the flaws are and I’ve only tried one libre2 sensor (self funder) but I found Libre 2 great,  accurate sensor that you can use ad hoc or regularly, with alarms to tell you when high and when low is perfect for me.


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## helli (Jan 7, 2021)

Ivostas66 said:


> I read recently that it was approved in Europe back in September, but not heard anything since. It will cost the same as the previous iterations, but looks like the device we have all been crying out for. I have heard that some people with the Libre 2 pair it with a Bubble or MiaoMiao, which does much of what the Libre 3 is going to do.


I have read it is possible to make Libre 2 into a CGM without a Miaomiao or Bubble. I have not got my hands on one yet but will be trying it out when I do. The battery in my Miaomiao is on its lasts legs and I am reluctant to buy another if possible. However, my current Miaomiao has been worth every penny with my Libre 1.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Jan 7, 2021)

As far as I know people are being advised to wait until their next regular review/appointment and ask then.

And switching isn’t compulsory if people would rather stay on Libre1.

I’ve got a couple to try, but I’m waiting until my Dex transmitter dies.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Jan 7, 2021)

helli said:


> I have read it is possible to make Libre 2 into a CGM without a Miaomiao or Bubble.



Out of the box Libre2 should prompt you to scan when your BG hits various limits, not sure about the automatic sending of data though.


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## Broomey (Jan 7, 2021)

Northampton diabetes centre advised me this week that this will be an automatic upgrade and nothing for me to do.


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## Kaylz (Jan 7, 2021)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> As far as I know people are being advised to wait until their next regular review/appointment and ask then.


Unfortunately I'll be declining seen as I haven't left the door since March so that's not an option for me, I know I shouldn't but I just can't  xx



Broomey said:


> Northampton diabetes centre advised me this week that this will be an automatic upgrade and nothing for me to do.


Different areas will be doing things differently I imagine like usual and I'm not even in England so majorly different up here lol xx


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## everydayupsanddowns (Jan 7, 2021)

Kaylz said:


> Unfortunately I'll be declining seen as I haven't left the door since March so that's not an option for me, I know I shouldn't but I just can't  xx



I would imagine clinic appointments will be offered via video call for a while yet - would that be a possibilty?


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## helli (Jan 7, 2021)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Out of the box Libre2 should prompt you to scan when your BG hits various limits, not sure about the automatic sending of data though.


Correct, “Out of the box Libre” does this.

The patched LibreLink app passes “the glucose values that it interprets from the data it receives over bluetooth from Libre2 out to another listener app. It effectively creates an external interface for the LibreLink app. 

To be very clear here, the output is not the raw data from the sensor, rather it is the output of the Abbott algorithm that “doesn’t require” calibration. 

xDrip has been updated to include a receiver for this data and is then able to use it as it would any other CGM source. “


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## Kaylz (Jan 7, 2021)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> I would imagine clinic appointments will be offered via video call for a while yet - would that be a possibilty?


I wouldn't be able to get my relative checks though and I highly doubt I'd manage calls, my grandad appears whenever he feels like it and my mum wont stop him from doing so no matter how much I beg and plead so I have to be too alert to go and deal with cleaning up behind him, it's all having a huge negative impact on my management and I'm not doing great with it at the moment but they cant seem to see that or that it could effect me long term, sorry very frustrated xx


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## everydayupsanddowns (Jan 7, 2021)

Kaylz said:


> I wouldn't be able to get my relative checks though and I highly doubt I'd manage calls, my grandad appears whenever he feels like it and my mum wont stop him from doing so no matter how much I beg and plead so I have to be too alert to go and deal with cleaning up behind him, it's all having a huge negative impact on my management and I'm not doing great with it at the moment but they cant seem to see that or that it could effect me long term, sorry very frustrated xx



Awwww sorry things are so difficult for you. You can only do your best under the current difficult circumstances. That’s all anyone can ask of you.

Interestingly I am volunteering as the PPI coordinator on a clinical trial into severe hypoglycaemia, and they have needed to develop materials which allow participants to sample their own bloods for HbA1c, and it has gone so well they are thinking it could be used much more widely - particularly at the moment.

I wish something like that was available for you.


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## Paulbreen (Jan 8, 2021)

Kaylz said:


> @Ivostas66 I know @Paulbreen has experience of the Libre 2, he has a thread about it but I haven't had the chance to go through it but he may also offer some input on this thread xx


Hi @Kaylz i don’t use the libre2 anymore but I did an experiment over the holidays with one because I used them for over a year and never really got them working correctly, good news now is they work well, this is what I found.

The libre2 is quite simple and doesn’t need any third party equipment like maio maio.

With the reader

Set up your high and low alarm points in the reader alarms settings then Start the libre2 with the libre2 reader and keep the reader around you, in your pocket handbag or within 20 feet on a table, it will warn you of high and low BG and then you can scan it with your reader to see the actual BG reading.

With your phone

*Download the latest librelink app, it doesn’t work with the older versions. Set up your alarm points in the app.*

Start the libre2 with the phone app and keep the phone near you, again pocket, handbag, convenient table within 20 feet. 

It will warn you of a high or low and you can scan with the phone to see actual value of you BG.

*Which ever device you start the libre2 with will give you the alarms but you can read BG with both devices*


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## Amity Island (Jan 8, 2021)

WOW.....Libre 2 just arrived in post! Can't wait....
Waiting to order next prescription (of libre 2 sensors) at end of month.


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## SB2015 (Jan 8, 2021)

This will be another big game changer, providing the alarms for highs and lows.
I look forward to hearing how this goes for people.


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## SB2015 (Jan 8, 2021)

Kaylz said:


> I wouldn't be able to get my relative checks though and I highly doubt I'd manage calls, my grandad appears whenever he feels like it and my mum wont stop him from doing so no matter how much I beg and plead so I have to be too alert to go and deal with cleaning up behind him, it's all having a huge negative impact on my management and I'm not doing great with it at the moment but they cant seem to see that or that it could effect me long term, sorry very frustrated xx


Sorry to hear that things are so hard for you at present Kaylz.
Just do what you can as best you can.  You can do no more than that.


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## Kaylz (Jan 8, 2021)

SB2015 said:


> Sorry to hear that things are so hard for you at present Kaylz.
> Just do what you can as best you can.  You can do no more than that.


Thanks but I shouldn't have to, my mum could easily make life a little easier for me but rather than that I'm just left to suffer and struggle to make it through each day  xx


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## SB2015 (Jan 8, 2021)

Kaylz said:


> Thanks but I shouldn't have to, my mum could easily make life a little easier for me but rather than that I'm just left to suffer and struggle to make it through each day  xx


I can only offer a big virtual ((((((((((((((hug))))))))))).


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## Paulbreen (Jan 8, 2021)

Here in German Abbott more or less discontinued the Libre1 once they started sending out the Libre2, there was no need to do any asking for the Libre2 as the Libre1 ran out of stock


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## JJay (Jan 8, 2021)

Paulbreen said:


> The libre2 is quite simple and doesn’t need any third party equipment like maio maio.


But it does require you to


Paulbreen said:


> keep the phone near you, again pocket, handbag, convenient table within 20 feet.


I don't go around the house (where of necessity I have to spend most of my time these days!) clutching my phone and unlike a man most of my clothes don't have pockets. So I transmit to an Apple watch via Miaomiao. Presumably I will need to continue doing this with Libre2? Sigh.


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## Paulbreen (Jan 8, 2021)

JJay said:


> But it does require you to
> 
> I don't go around the house (where of necessity I have to spend most of my time these days!) clutching my phone and unlike a man most of my clothes don't have pockets. So I transmit to an Apple watch via Miaomiao. Presumably I will need to continue doing this with Libre2? Sigh.


I’m not sure of how the Apple Watch works as I don’t have one and I never used a maio maio 
All I can say is the libre2 talks to either the libre2 reader or an iPhone running the latest LibreLink app. If you can get the phone to pass the alarm to your watch it might be useful if you post how to do it, I’m sure many people here will be interested how to do it.


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## JJay (Jan 9, 2021)

Paulbreen said:


> If you can get the phone to pass the alarm to your watch it might be useful if you post how to do it, I’m sure many people here will be interested how to do it.


Ha! Yes, that has been a bit of a problem (with Miaomiao/Tomato - haven't got Libre2 yet) - the watch can mirror the iPhone for certain apps but LibreLink isn't one of them - I was hoping that would change with L2 but it doesn't look like that's the case, although I had an email from Abbott yesterday with more detail about L2 which I haven't studied properly yet.

I can get Tomato's alarm on the watch, but it still sounds on my phone as well - which I was hoping to avoid so as not to wake up my OH in the middle of the night!  

I've looked at Spike & xDrip but although I've always considered myself fairly tech-savvy the concept of installing them was beyond my comprehension.

If anyone out there has more advice I'd be very pleased to hear from them


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## trophywench (Jan 9, 2021)

I had a L2 email from Abbott yesterday - just an advert really, no help with when or how I'll get my hands on one.


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## danielmg (Jan 9, 2021)

trophywench said:


> I had a L2 email from Abbott yesterday - just an advert really, no help with when or how I'll get my hands on one.


I think I had the same email as well. I don't know If I should have, but I've ordered the free Libre 2 replacement via one the aforementioned links by Dr Partha Kar. I haven't yet requested I be switched over to Libre 2 sensors, however, I just thought I'd order the device, as there is no need to return Libre 1 reader.


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## Paulbreen (Jan 9, 2021)

JJay said:


> Ha! Yes, that has been a bit of a problem (with Miaomiao/Tomato - haven't got Libre2 yet) - the watch can mirror the iPhone for certain apps but LibreLink isn't one of them - I was hoping that would change with L2 but it doesn't look like that's the case, although I had an email from Abbott yesterday with more detail about L2 which I haven't studied properly yet.
> 
> I can get Tomato's alarm on the watch, but it still sounds on my phone as well - which I was hoping to avoid so as not to wake up my OH in the middle of the night!
> 
> ...


I’m pretty tech savvy and wouldn’t rely on any 3rd party software for keeping my BG monitored, there is a reason why you have to jump through hoops to get them working especially with an Apple phone, Apple haven’t approved the apps because they haven’t been through any significant testing, I could build an app to raise an alarm on another device in a few hours but I’d rather not risk a severe hypo, it’s also the main reason I never wanted a maio maio. 
if I hadn’t moved onto a pump and CGM loop system I would be more than happy with what a libre2 can do and if a watch extension for LibreLink was coming I’d be prepared to wait for Abbott to do it


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## Kaylz (Jan 9, 2021)

danielmg said:


> I think I had the same email as well. I don't know If I should have, but I've ordered the free Libre 2 replacement via one the aforementioned links by Dr Partha Kar. I haven't yet requested I be switched over to Libre 2 sensors, however, I just thought I'd order the device, as there is no need to return Libre 1 reader.


Is there not a question of whether the GP can in fact change your prescription to Libre 2 in the request form as that's the information @Amity Island had to do xx


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## helli (Jan 9, 2021)

I am tech savvy which helps for me because, not only am I able to install third parties, I understand the tech they use. And the tech Abbott use.
Early on, I discovered, factory calibrations for the Libre which Abbot swear on, do not seem to be the same as Helli-calibrations. I nearly gave up on Libre because it was always out but not consistently. Then I discovered third party apps that use different algorithm to convert interstitial fluid readings to blood sugar readings and allow you to calibrate.
I calibrate twice a day although the readings on xDrip often match finger pricks. I sometimes check with LibreLink and it is still not Helli-calibrated.

So, for me, I am happier to rely on these apps (I used to use Glimp but preferred the user interface on xDrip) than the official ones. That is because I have throughly tested it for my personal use case. And I am aware enough to finger prick check out if i am not convinced by what the app tells me.

I have read the Libre 2 is said to be more accurate so I will be interested to see if that works better for me. I hope so because the Libre 2 patch takes the calculated readings from a patched LibreLink rather than the raw interstitial fluid readings from the sensor.


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## danielmg (Jan 9, 2021)

Kaylz said:


> Is there not a question of whether the GP can in fact change your prescription to Libre 2 in the request form as that's the information @Amity Island had to do xx


Hi @Kaylz there is that question on the form I filled out. I think I was just trying to be pro-active as I know It can take a while to be delivered (especially with the stresses most couriers are under). I do plan on asking checking the consultant first at my next follow-up appt. next month.


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## JJay (Jan 9, 2021)

Paulbreen said:


> I’m pretty tech savvy and wouldn’t rely on any 3rd party software for keeping my BG monitored, there is a reason why you have to jump through hoops to get them working especially with an Apple phone, Apple haven’t approved the apps because they haven’t been through any significant testing, I could build an app to raise an alarm on another device in a few hours but I’d rather not risk a severe hypo, it’s also the main reason I never wanted a maio maio.
> if I hadn’t moved onto a pump and CGM loop system I would be more than happy with what a libre2 can do and if a watch extension for LibreLink was coming I’d be prepared to wait for Abbott to do it


Thanks for that - it's how I feel too. I would much rather rely on the minimum of technology as there's less to go wrong! However, I do need some sort of alarm facility as my hypo awareness has become impaired by taking a beta-blocker so I will persist with Miaomiao for now.

Luckily I happened to be speaking to someone in the Community Diabetes Team yesterday and she told me I could just ask my GP to change the prescription to L2 and couldn't see any reason why they shouldn't agree. So I may be taking the next step sooner than I thought!


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## Paulbreen (Jan 9, 2021)

helli said:


> I am tech savvy which helps for me because, not only am I able to install third parties, I understand the tech they use. And the tech Abbott use.
> Early on, I discovered, factory calibrations for the Libre which Abbot swear on, do not seem to be the same as Helli-calibrations. I nearly gave up on Libre because it was always out but not consistently. Then I discovered third party apps that use different algorithm to convert interstitial fluid readings to blood sugar readings and allow you to calibrate.
> I calibrate twice a day although the readings on xDrip often match finger pricks. I sometimes check with LibreLink and it is still not Helli-calibrated.
> 
> ...





JJay said:


> Thanks for that - it's how I feel too. I would much rather rely on the minimum of technology as there's less to go wrong! However, I do need some sort of alarm facility as my hypo awareness has become impaired by taking a beta-blocker so I will persist with Miaomiao for now.
> 
> Luckily I happened to be speaking to someone in the Community Diabetes Team yesterday and she told me I could just ask my GP to change the prescription to L2 and couldn't see any reason why they shouldn't agree. So I may be taking the next step sooner than I thought!


From what happened here in Germany the Libre are difficult to get hold of now, the Libre2 first came to me at the beginning of 2019 so stocks of the Libre in the UK will most likely dwindle down too, Abbott are unlikely to run several production lines producing several different models in the long term and chances are the Libre1 production has already finished


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## Kaylz (Jan 9, 2021)

Paulbreen said:


> Abbott are unlikely to run several production lines producing several different models in the long term and chances are the Libre1 production has already finished


This is taken from the UK Abbott FAQ section - 

In Europe, the FreeStyle Libre system and the FreeStyle Libre 2 system will be available and on- market at the same time.
xx


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## danielmg (Jan 9, 2021)

Are there any prescription costs available for the Libre & Libre 2 devices? If they are the same, or very similar, I would feel more confident at this time requesting from my GP to switch over.


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## grovesy (Jan 9, 2021)

danielmg said:


> Are there any prescription costs available for the Libre & Libre 2 devices? If they are the same, or very similar, I would feel more confident at this time requesting from my GP to switch over.


You don't pay  on prescription they are been sold at the same price by Abbott!


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## Bruce Stephens (Jan 9, 2021)

danielmg said:


> Are there any prescription costs available for the Libre & Libre 2 devices?


Abbott are selling the two at the same price to anyone who wants to buy one. I imagine the same deal the NHS had for Libre carries across so the NHS will (I imagine) be paying the same amount. (I expect the same to be true for Libre 3 if and when it arrives. Abbott's said it'll be the same price.)


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## Paulbreen (Jan 9, 2021)

Well all I can share is my actual experience I haven’t used the libre2 for well over a year now but I do have friends that use libre sensors and they are all on the 2 even if thy are not using alarms, we meet every 3 months in our clinic with our doctors and nurses and the general discussion is that it’s hard here to get a libre1 anymore. We have some older people who don’t want to change their routine so they were shown they don’t have to use the alarms in the libre2 One thing that is different to the UK is we are all using health insurance which we pay for and the insurance companies will always have the choice which sensor they will buy from Abbott. Despite the NHS being your only provider it seems that the right hand doesn’t know what the left is doing over there. And even where you live determines what treatment you can get lol


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## trophywench (Jan 9, 2021)

You're right there, Paul and they're even less reliable than they've been since the pandemic reared it's ugly head.  Poor employees really are getting - if they haven't already - to the end of their tethers, it's worrying.


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## danielmg (Jan 10, 2021)

grovesy said:


> You don't pay  on prescription they are been sold at the same price by Abbott!


Sorry if that didn't make sense.  I just meant the cost to the NHS and individual surgeries for prescribing.


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## helli (Jan 10, 2021)

trophywench said:


> You're right there, Paul and they're even less reliable than they've been since the pandemic reared it's ugly head.  Poor employees really are getting - if they haven't already - to the end of their tethers, it's worrying.


What do you base the increased unreliability on? 
It is not something I have experienced wrt diabetes treatment.
It is different (telephone appointments instead of face to face) but not unreliable.


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## Robin (Jan 10, 2021)

helli said:


> What do you base the increased unreliability on?
> It is not something I have experienced wrt diabetes treatment.
> It is different (telephone appointments instead of face to face) but not unreliable.


Lucky you, it took me five months to get my hands on a Libre once I’d had a telephone consultation with a doctor at the hospital and told I'd be put forward for consideration. I ended up telephoning or emailing a poor secretary weekly in the end. Messages seemed to be either not passed on, or not acted upon, I hope it was because of the problems with everyone working from home etc, and not indicative of the normal service in that hospital.


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## helli (Jan 10, 2021)

Robin said:


> Lucky you, it took me five months to get my hands on a Libre once I’d had a telephone consultation with a doctor at the hospital and told I'd be put forward for consideration. I ended up telephoning or emailing a poor secretary weekly in the end. Messages seemed to be either not passed on, or not acted upon, I hope it was because of the problems with everyone working from home etc, and not indicative of the normal service in that hospital.


This was my experience way before the pandemic. It took me 3 months to get my prescribed Libre after being told I was approved and I had signed all the paperwork to say I would use it correctly. This was down to NHS inefficiency not unreliability.


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## Robin (Jan 10, 2021)

helli said:


> This was my experience way before the pandemic. It took me 3 months to get my prescribed Libre after being told I was approved and I had signed all the paperwork to say I would use it correctly. This was down to NHS inefficiency not unreliability.


But how would you class these examples? The doctor said she’d refer me, and clearly forgot. (There was no record of her doing so, even though she said in my follow up letter that she would be doing this). The secretary says she will ask the administrator to ring me when she’s in work the following day. No phone call. I reminded her the following week, the Adminstrator emails and says sorry, I forgot to ring you last week. I do understand that they were working from home, and under new pressures, but that’s unreliability in my book, not 'NHS inefficiency'.


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## trophywench (Jan 10, 2021)

OK - I sit corrected - seriously.  Our GP surgery are even more inefficient then they ever were, and to be honest, they were bad enough before the pandemic.


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## Amity Island (Jan 11, 2021)

Hi All,
Just got my prescription changed over from libre 1 to libre 2 sensors after my hospital diabetes team called me back. They said this should happen automatically with G.P's. But because my g.p was unsure about what it is, the hospital will email them of the change. 
Only thing was hospital said they didn't have a freestyle libre 2 reader. I said "already got one!" great she said.


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## Broomey (Jan 11, 2021)

Amity Island said:


> Hi All,
> Just got my prescription changed over from libre 1 to libre 2 sensors after my hospital diabetes team called me back. They said this should happen automatically with G.P's. But because my g.p was unsure about what it is, the hospital will email them of the change.
> Only thing was hospital said they didn't have a freestyle libre 2 reader. I said "already got one!" great she said.


That’s good to hear. I’ve had conflicting response from Northampton DC. They say no need to change prescription as it will be an automatic upgrade. pharmacy says they need an amended one, GP won’t change it without confirmation from consultant and Abbott says that over time the LS1 will be phased out!! Confused.com


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## Amity Island (Jan 11, 2021)

Broomey said:


> That’s good to hear. I’ve had conflicting response from Northampton DC. They say no need to change prescription as it will be an automatic upgrade. pharmacy says they need an amended one, GP won’t change it without confirmation from consultant and Abbott says that over time the LS1 will be phased out!! Confused.com


This sounds like a priority for all existing libre users to call their g.p and/or hospital team to get the script sorted out. Then follow the link (see Bruce's post) and order libre 2 reader. Otherwise, some (many?) could be left in the position of no libre 1 sensors for those still on libre 1 and no sensor prescriptions or libre 2 reader for those too late to switch.


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## Ivostas66 (Jan 12, 2021)

I asked my DSN about CGMs such as Bubble etc back in November as I had a period where my BG was spiking for no apparent reason and then plummeting. As a teacher, a CGM would be great because an alarm would warn me when I am mid flow in front of the little angels. I only had a response yesterday:

_These type of gadgets have not been FDA cleared. We therefore cannot help with setting it up but can always help to review your blood glucose levels as needed and advise you accordingly. Unfortunately, this will not be funded by the CCG especially if it is not FDA cleared.

We are anticipating the roll out of the Libre 2 which will act as a continuous glucose monitor with optional alarms. We are waiting for more information from Abbott as to when this will happen and also seeing if it will be funded by the CCG. Libre 2 costs the same as Libre 1 so we are hopeful that that CCG will fund this._

When I spoke to my DSN later and told her that people were now being prescribed the new Libre 2, that it costs roughly the same as the Libre 1 she was surprised and told me the best bet was to contact my GP or my pharmacist to discuss a change to my script. Spoke to my pharmacist and he knows nothing about this or who I should speak to. My surgery is virtually closed due to almost all of the receptionists isolating after a couple of positive tests for staff.


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## grovesy (Jan 12, 2021)

Ivostas66 said:


> I asked my DSN about CGMs such as Bubble etc back in November as I had a period where my BG was spiking for no apparent reason and then plummeting. As a teacher, a CGM would be great because an alarm would warn me when I am mid flow in front of the little angels. I only had a response yesterday:
> 
> _These type of gadgets have not been FDA cleared. We therefore cannot help with setting it up but can always help to review your blood glucose levels as needed and advise you accordingly. Unfortunately, this will not be funded by the CCG especially if it is not FDA cleared.
> 
> ...


It is the same price as Libre, I self fund and ordered mine yesterday!


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## Bexlee (Jan 12, 2021)

My libre 2 reader free upgrade arrived today ..... sensors to order tomorrow. Exciting times a new gadget!!


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## JJay (Jan 12, 2021)

Ivostas66 said:


> I asked my DSN about CGMs such as Bubble etc back in November as I had a period where my BG was spiking for no apparent reason and then plummeting. As a teacher, a CGM would be great because an alarm would warn me when I am mid flow in front of the little angels. I only had a response yesterday:
> 
> _These type of gadgets have not been FDA cleared. We therefore cannot help with setting it up but can always help to review your blood glucose levels as needed and advise you accordingly. Unfortunately, this will not be funded by the CCG especially if it is not FDA cleared.
> 
> ...


Are you in the UK? I don't understand why your DSN would say CGMs are not "FDA" cleared.  The FDA is a United States body as far as I'm aware.

Libre2 certainly has been cleared by the NHS https://diabetestimes.co.uk/freestyle-libre-2-system-gets-nhs-drug-tariff-approval/ and is being rolled out from this month.

Does your GP surgery have an online prescription ordering system which allows you to make "custom requests"?  If so you could use this to request the change. (I did this yesterday and my prescription has already been changed!)

Alternatively, can you email your GP surgery to request the change?  If so say your DSN has suggested the Libre2 and include the above link.

Good luck!


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## nonethewiser (Jan 13, 2021)

Bexlee said:


> My libre 2 reader free upgrade arrived today ..... sensors to order tomorrow. Exciting times a new gadget!!



Did you ask for upgrade or was it just sent out?


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## grovesy (Jan 13, 2021)

nonethewiser said:


> Did you ask for upgrade or was it just sent out?


You can do it via Abbotts Freestyle website, you need to enter your old readers number. I order mine Monday along with Libre 2 sensors.


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## MrDaibetes (Jan 13, 2021)

Hoping this works for those using libre, the alarms do sound like a promising addition to those not on CGM.


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## helli (Jan 13, 2021)

JJay said:


> Are you in the UK? I don't understand why your DSN would say CGMs are not "FDA" cleared. The FDA is a United States body as far as I'm aware.


The question was not about CGMs - the question was about the add-ons to Libre such as Bubble and Miaomiao. 
Through unofficial (non-approved) apps, these convert a Flash glucose metre (Libre) into a CGM so you no longer need to swipe the sensor with your reader to get the last 8 hours readings.


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## JJay (Jan 13, 2021)

helli said:


> The question was not about CGMs - the question was about the add-ons to Libre such as Bubble and Miaomiao.
> Through unofficial (non-approved) apps, these convert a Flash glucose metre (Libre) into a CGM so you no longer need to swipe the sensor with your reader to get the last 8 hours readings.


From @Ivostas66's post:

"I asked my DSN about CGMs such as Bubble etc"

I've never heard of Bubble so assumed it was a CGM, although I've had Libre and Miaomiao for some time.
I now consider myself enlightened - thank you


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## danielmg (Jan 13, 2021)

Good morning everyone 
I was wondering what you guys thought about these CGM 'attachment devices' for use with the Libre 2, and whether this would still provide any significant benefits due to Libre's upgrade to alarms? I confess I haven't as yet looked into these 3rd party devices, but would be interesting to know if it is still something I should look into.


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## helli (Jan 13, 2021)

danielmg said:


> Good morning everyone
> I was wondering what you guys thought about these CGM 'attachment devices' for use with the Libre 2, and whether this would still provide any significant benefits due to Libre's upgrade to alarms? I confess I haven't as yet looked into these 3rd party devices, but would be interesting to know if it is still something I should look into.


I have been using a Miaomiao for the last year with Libre 1. 
The benefit for me is not the alerts but the ability to see my blood sugars by glancing at my phone and not needing to scan. This is very useful when out and about, in work meetings, etc. I am able to glance at my phone and make any necessary adjustments (top up insulin, suspend my pump of down a GlucoTab) before any alarms go off. 

However, there is an unofficial patch available to the Android version LibreView app which will forward the values from Libre 2 to a third party app.
My Miaomiao battery doesn't last very long and should be replaced but I am waiting to get hold of Libre 2 to try this out and see if I can avoid paying for a Miaomiao replacement.


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## nonethewiser (Jan 13, 2021)

grovesy said:


> You can do it via Abbotts Freestyle website, you need to enter your old readers number. I order mine Monday along with Libre 2 sensors.



Tried logging on website but didn't recognise email for some strange reason. Rang Abbott spoke with helpful lady, explained problem with logging on said it didn't matter could do request on phone, took old reader number as you said & that was it.


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## danielmg (Jan 13, 2021)

helli said:


> I have been using a Miaomiao for the last year with Libre 1.
> The benefit for me is not the alerts but the ability to see my blood sugars by glancing at my phone and not needing to scan. This is very useful when out and about, in work meetings, etc. I am able to glance at my phone and make any necessary adjustments (top up insulin, suspend my pump of down a GlucoTab) before any alarms go off.
> 
> However, there is an unofficial patch available to the Android version LibreView app which will forward the values from Libre 2 to a third party app.
> My Miaomiao battery doesn't last very long and should be replaced but I am waiting to get hold of Libre 2 to try this out and see if I can avoid paying for a Miaomiao replacement.


This may sound like a stupid question, but is a compatible smartphone needed for these devices to work? I have an older smartphone which isn't compatible for LibreLink app, so probably rules me out of this until I upgrade.


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## Bruce Stephens (Jan 13, 2021)

danielmg said:


> is a compatible smartphone needed for these devices to work?


Yes, but it's likely much less restrictive than for LibreLink.


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## helli (Jan 13, 2021)

danielmg said:


> This may sound like a stupid question, but is a compatible smartphone needed for these devices to work? I have an older smartphone which isn't compatible for LibreLink app, so probably rules me out of this until I upgrade.


These devices need Bluetooth. 
The unofficial apps (such as XDrip and Glimp) may have minimum OS versions. This will need to be checked. 

If you are able to start the sensor with your Libre Reader, you do not need NFC on your phone. However, I prefer to have one that does so that if there is a problem with Bluetooth on my phone or the Miaomiao stops working I don't have to carry the reader with me.


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## grovesy (Jan 13, 2021)

nonethewiser said:


> Tried logging on website but didn't recognise email for some strange reason. Rang Abbott spoke with helpful lady, explained problem with logging on said it didn't matter could do request on phone, took old reader number as you said & that was it.


I ordered Monday reader,just arrived but not the sensors I ordered too! I have 1 Libre left to apply in a couple of days. I did not need but as we have not had any letter post here for nearly 3weeks,  I ordered early. Though the Libre stuff comes via Parcel Force.


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## Robin (Jan 13, 2021)

I’ve just done a Libre webinar run by Abbott this morning, and the subject of the Libre 2 came up in the Q &A session. Two points of interest for people who have it on prescription..
1) The reason they are asking people to be swapped over at their next clinic is so that the hospital Diabetes departments depleted of staff who have been sent to work on Covid wards don’t get overwhelmed with queries about it now.
2) Not all CCGs have got round to adding it to their prescribing list, so some GPs are unable to update prescriptions because it doesn’t appear in the drop down box of things they can prescribe (Computer says no!)


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## PhoebeC (Jan 13, 2021)

When I spoke to my DSN at the end of Nov, she said it would be an automatic transfer to the 2's once it was live at my surgery. 

Spoke to her on Friday, we are switching me onto Levemir, so she emailed the request for this and Libre 2 to my doctor. I got the text from the chemist saying it was ready to collect, so I collected it, but there was no request for the libre.

I emailed my surgery yesterday about the libre 2, it was on my repeat account this morning, so I have ordered it. Just need to wait to collect it. I cannot wait.


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## danielmg (Jan 13, 2021)

I think based on what's been said thus far, that I should probably wait until I have my next appointment with the consultant in February before requesting the switch to Libre 2.

EDIT: I have ordered the free reader replacement from Abbott already, but I personally have no rush to switchover. I have 2 Libre 1 sensors left to use after the current one expires in 3 days, and I have to discuss some related issues anyway at my next clinic appointment. I know everyone will be different depending on their circumstances though.


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## Bexlee (Jan 13, 2021)

nonethewiser said:


> Did you ask for upgrade or was it just sent out?


I clicked on the link in @Bruce Stephens post near the start of this thread. I couldn’t get the website itself to work last week. Just had to put serial number of libre 1 sensor into it then log into my account and select delivery address dead simples !


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## nonethewiser (Jan 13, 2021)

Bexlee said:


> I clicked on the link in @Bruce Stephens post near the start of this thread. I couldn’t get the website itself to work last week. Just had to put serial number of libre 1 sensor into it then log into my account and select delivery address dead simples !



Thanks got sorted, couldn't log on so contacted Abbott by phone.


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## danielmg (Jan 14, 2021)

Received the Libre 2 reader from Abbott today. Will treat as a Christmas present and avoid opening until after prescription change (or at least until confirmed)


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## Broomey (Jan 14, 2021)

Northampton Diabetes centre woman has excelled, she phoned Abbott and then issued a letter to my GP which confirms the upgrade and provided the relevant code to order LS2. Very helpful and supportive. Lots of guidance within the letter for the GP.


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## MarkGeordie (Jan 18, 2021)

Ive just had my review with the DSN. She was well happy that the HbA1c had improved.

I wanted to know more about the funding of libre so I asked her. She said the funding is safe. Firstly she said they are not conducting formal reviews at the moment. She also said she would be concerned if I hadn’t seen an improvement. She also pointed out she’s certainly not going to go looking for an excuse to have the funding pulled. 

In regards to libre 2 she said her understanding was it would be an automatic switch because it costs no more but there was no harm asking the Gp to amend the prescription.


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## helli (Jan 18, 2021)

My Libre 2 reader turned up very promptly. 
I can't use it yet because I don't have Libre 2. Still waiting for a response from my DSN - she was off sick when I emailed last week. 

To be honest, the reader was a huge disappointment as I was expecting a more exciting parcel. Post tends to be quarantined for 48 hours so the anticipation was building. And then it was a reader which I can't use :-(


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## grovesy (Jan 18, 2021)

helli said:


> My Libre 2 reader turned up very promptly.
> I can't use it yet because I don't have Libre 2. Still waiting for a response from my DSN - she was off sick when I emailed last week.
> 
> To be honest, the reader was a huge disappointment as I was expecting a more exciting parcel. Post tends to be quarantined for 48 hours so the anticipation was building. And then it was a reader which I can't use :-(


My Libre 2 reader arrived quickly too, but the Libre2 sensors I bought  the same day. Have not arrived yet!


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## grovesy (Jan 19, 2021)

My Libre 2 sensors arrived today, but won't be using for another 10 days.


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## Kaylz (Jan 19, 2021)

grovesy said:


> My Libre 2 sensors arrived today, but won't be using for another 10 days.


As I've never actually ordered and when I had replaced it was UPS (don't think it's them now) do you have to sign for them or can you select a "safe place"? 

Was so much easier for me when it was UPS as my dad gave me the heads up when they were out for delivery etc xx


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## helli (Jan 19, 2021)

Kaylz said:


> As I've never actually ordered and when I had replaced it was UPS (don't think it's them now) do you have to sign for them or can you select a "safe place"?
> 
> Was so much easier for me when it was UPS as my dad gave me the heads up when they were out for delivery etc xx


I haven't signed for any delivery since the first lockdown.
As I am always in, I don't know about designated "safe places".
Most deliveries take a photo of the parcel in front of my open door as proof of delivery.
I usually stand back, ask them to place it just inside the front door and leave it there untouched for a 48 hour quarantine to give any potential Covid cooties time to die.


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## grovesy (Jan 19, 2021)

Kaylz said:


> As I've never actually ordered and when I had replaced it was UPS (don't think it's them now) do you have to sign for them or can you select a "safe place"?
> 
> Was so much easier for me when it was UPS as my dad gave me the heads up when they were out for delivery etc xx


It was Parcel Force, knocked, put on doorstep but waited on footpath till we answered the door. I usally have Parcel Force for Libre deliveries.


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## Kaylz (Jan 19, 2021)

helli said:


> I haven't signed for any delivery since the first lockdown.
> As I am always in, I don't know about designated "safe places".
> Most deliveries take a photo of the parcel in front of my open door as proof of delivery.
> I usually stand back, ask them to place it just inside the front door and leave it there untouched for a 48 hour quarantine to give any potential Covid cooties time to die.


I have everything go to Bruce's as our lobby is only about 2ft wide so no room to leave parcels sitting and with Bubbles he'd interfere with them as well hence why nothing gets delivered here anymore and as he's still working it has to be put to a safe place xx


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## trophywench (Jan 19, 2021)

Well our porch is 2 ft deep but it is almost 6ft wide, so plenty of room for all sorts before you come in the actual front door and meet fitted carpet in the 22ft long hall.  (the number of times I've mentally knocked all the internal walls down and rearranged it ......)


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## Kaylz (Jan 19, 2021)

@trophywench I wish we had something like that but sadly living in a closey with 5 other flats we cant have stuff laying about outside the front door lol xx


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## trophywench (Jan 19, 2021)

Whereas our porch door is our final exit door to the front of the house and the porch isn't stuck onto the front wall like a pimple, the smallish patio door on the front of it is level with the front wall, so when you step into the porch, you're inside the 4 walls of the house, though still outside the front door.  Useful for invited visitors of course cos they can get out of the rain before they knock the front door to be let in - and of course when we've been out and come back in - can sort the keys out and unlock the door in the dry!  The outer porch door also gets locked at night and when we're going out, so that does have to be unlocked in the wet when its raining but as they say - into every life, a little rain must fall!

(and the lady of this house doesn't step out the car till the bloke's opened the porch door at the very least   )


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## helli (Jan 19, 2021)

@Kaylz apologies if I offended you in any way.
I was relaying my experience not questioning why you (or anyone else) could not receive parcels into a quarantine pile.
Small spaces are a problem.


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## Kaylz (Jan 20, 2021)

helli said:


> @Kaylz apologies if I offended you in any way.
> I was relaying my experience not questioning why you (or anyone else) could not receive parcels into a quarantine pile.
> Small spaces are a problem.


Don't be daft! Not offended at all!

It's something I would totally do if I could but as I'm unable to I have no option but to have stuff go to Bruce's, he just takes them in when he gets in from work, tips whatever out onto a "clean" surface, disposes of the packaging and then washes his hands as he has nowhere to "quarantine" either seen as there's a ruddy great set of stairs about 1 step in from the front door! lol
xx


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## nonethewiser (Jan 20, 2021)

Sent repeat request last week adding note to say Libre 2 sensors instead of 1, Dr rang to say weren't not on system but would ask practice pharmacist to check & add them on if trust has approved them, sensors arrived today no mention of 2 on packaging so assume they are 1 sensors.


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## trophywench (Jan 20, 2021)

My hospital are awaiting the pronouncement of the local CCG.

It has always had the reputation of being considerably slower than a sloth on a go slow ..... refused point blank to fund any training for either DSNs or patients and any thing else, to do with learning Dose Adjustment and carb counting, then the same with pumps.  They simply did NOT want to fund it - so NICE are a very refreshing change making such useful recommendations - but make not much difference to them to be frank.


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## danielmg (Jan 20, 2021)

I've just emailed my interest for a study which would provide me with a Libre 2 reader and sensors for a 10 week period. At least I may be able to test the updated Libre out this way if there are any issues with my prescription changing over.


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## helli (Jan 20, 2021)

I contacted my DSN to ask what the plan was here wrt Libre 2. 
She said the prescription would need to be changed and she would contact my GP to do so as long as I promised to use up any Libre 1 I had first. 
Given my GP surgery takes a lead from the same sloth as @trophywench CCG, I think there is a possibility I see Libre 2 before Easter. But it is only a possibility not a certainty.


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## trophywench (Jan 20, 2021)

I asked mine a fortnight ago, she said they hadn't heard anything from the CCG yet but as soon as they do, they would contact all patients that they have on prescribed Libre and tell us to get our prescriptions changed.

I have a booked ordinary D clinic appt towards the end of Feb - hope it gets sorted by then ...


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## jparrie (Feb 14, 2021)

Quick question for those with a Libre device. 

On day 14, the device takes a reading but doesn't give a "change device" message until the next day. (I'm guessing this as I order them for my Mum, I live overseas). So when her DN gets that message and changes the sensor, she has to wait 1 hour before she can take a reading. Because of this she pricks her finger, defeating the whole purpose of having this device. Can some one confirm that is that how the device works? If so, is tehre a workaround or are the DN's missing something? 

Abbott have, as usual, failed to answer my query apart from a canned response.


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## Bruce Stephens (Feb 14, 2021)

jparrie said:


> Because of this she pricks her finger, defeating the whole purpose of having this device. Can some one confirm that is that how the device works?


You do get a countdown, so it'll say the sensor has only 5 hours remaining, etc. But yes, you can't start a new sensor while still reading the old one, so you're stuck with the hour or so without being able to scan a sensor.

(Well, if you also use a phone to scan sensors you can reduce that time, but it's fiddly enough that I don't bother. The idea is to use your phone to keep scanning the existing sensor until it entirely runs out, and (an hour before) start the new sensor with the reader. Then, once the new sensor is ready (which you can tell with the reader) to give readings you can get readings either using the reader or your phone.)


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## JJay (Feb 15, 2021)

jparrie said:


> Quick question for those with a Libre device.
> 
> On day 14, the device takes a reading but doesn't give a "change device" message until the next day. (I'm guessing this as I order them for my Mum, I live overseas). So when her DN gets that message and changes the sensor, she has to wait 1 hour before she can take a reading. Because of this she pricks her finger, defeating the whole purpose of having this device. Can some one confirm that is that how the device works? If so, is tehre a workaround or are the DN's missing something?
> 
> Abbott have, as usual, failed to answer my query apart from a canned response.


You get a day-by-day, and on the last day, 24 hours warning of the sensor ending and the countdown is then hour by hour.

However, a Libre and a finger-prick are measuring different things - while the blood test gives you a real-time reading of BG, Libre measures interstitial fluid and lags at least 10-15 minutes behind.

You don't say if your Mum is Type 1 and/or using insulin or other BG lowering meds, but in my experience Libre is never sufficiently accurate on which to base insulin dose decisions, so personally I'm still finger-pricking at least 4 times a day in any case.


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## trophywench (Feb 15, 2021)

Yes and me @JJay - very keen to get my mitts on the Libre 2 sensors, as that is reportedly, more accurate.  Still have to finger prick before meals etc though, so my meter can calculate the bolus taking the IOB from my pump into account, same with correction doses when I shoot too high for comfort.


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## JJay (Feb 15, 2021)

trophywench said:


> Yes and me @JJay - very keen to get my mitts on the Libre 2 sensors, as that is reportedly, more accurate.  Still have to finger prick before meals etc though, so my meter can calculate the bolus taking the IOB from my pump into account, same with correction doses when I shoot too high for comfort.


I would describe Libre2 as "marginally" more accurate than L1 (though I'm only 1 & a half sensors in so far!) Using them with Xdrip so as to get continuous readings on phone and Apple watch. On average xDrip reads 1.0-2.0 higher than Libre (especially at the low end) and matches BG readings pretty closely.


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## jparrie (Feb 15, 2021)

JJay said:


> You get a day-by-day, and on the last day, 24 hours warning of the sensor ending and the countdown is then hour by hour


My mother is type1. The nurses only prick her once a day, but at 87 her fingers were so sore I decided to just pay for this device so she didn't have to. Are you saying that the device does in fact give 24 hours notice that the sensor will need changing? So if the DN took a reading at 9AM Monday morning, the device would say that there was only one day left? If so, that would suggest the DN's aren't reading what's on the device. 

I'm overseas so I have no idea what readings the device gives.


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## Robin (Feb 15, 2021)

jparrie said:


> My mother is type1. The nurses only prick her once a day, but at 87 her fingers were so sore I decided to just pay for this device so she didn't have to. Are you saying that the device does in fact give 24 hours notice that the sensor will need changing? So if the DN took a reading at 9AM Monday morning, the device would say that there was only one day left? If so, that would suggest the DN's aren't reading what's on the device.
> 
> I'm overseas so I have no idea what readings the device gives.


When you scan towards the end of the sensor life, the Libre gives you a 'Sensor ends in 3 days' warning, then 2, the 24 hours, then it counts down by the hour right at the end. There will always be an hour's gap between the old sensor ending and starting the new,  because of the one hour 'warm up' period.
I'm not sure I understand you correctly, are you saying they only scan her once a day? Or do you mean they finger prick once a day and scan her the rest of the time? If they only scanned once a day, they could just miss the 24 hour warning one day, and then find it's run out by the next. But shouldnt they be keeping a record on her notes of when it was changed, so they know when changeover day is?


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## Bruce Stephens (Feb 15, 2021)

jparrie said:


> Are you saying that the device does in fact give 24 hours notice that the sensor will need changing?


Yes. I just scanned, and the reader shows the reading and (in smaller type, admittedly) "Ends in 14 days". (I changed the sensor yesterday.) And when it gets closer I have to click through the warning that the sensor is nearing its end.


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## jparrie (Feb 15, 2021)

Robin said:


> I'm not sure I understand you correctly, are you saying they only scan her once a day? Or do you mean they finger prick once a day and scan her the rest of the time? If they only scanned once a day, they could just miss the 24 hour warning one day, and then find it's run out by the next. But shouldnt they be keeping a record on her notes of when it was changed, so they know when changeover day is?


They scan her once per day, in the morning. This replaces the once per day finger prick that they used to do. It seems to me that they are missing the 24 hour notice, like you say.  

My experience of people who one would think should know what they are doing, is often they don't. And common sense is not so common. But I do think the way it operates is a fault with this device.


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## trophywench (Feb 15, 2021)

It is on the top of the screen that gives the choice of 'scan' or 'check history' - you then have to press the LH picture of the scanner, to take you to the screen that tells you to scan, when you can scan.


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## grovesy (Feb 15, 2021)

jparrie said:


> They scan her once per day, in the morning. This replaces the once per day finger prick that they used to do. It seems to me that they are missing the 24 hour notice, like you say.
> 
> My experience of people who one would think should know what they are doing, is often they don't. And common sense is not so common. But I do think the way it operates is a fault with this device.


The device is not really designed to be used once a day, it is meant to be scanned at least every 8 hours so , you get a graph of what the levels have been over a 24 hour period. 
Also the percentage of people in the UK with Type1 who are actually prescribed is quite small still. The Nurses I suspect don't have many people with one.


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## trophywench (Feb 15, 2021)

I find this very scary indeed for my possible future.  A T1 diabetic in this day & age, only having their BG checked ONCE a day??

I was in hospital for something else a couple of years ago and thinking about it, the ward sister asked me to show her the history of my own tests the first morning as I was admitted in the evening after dinner, when they did the medication round which was morning and evening - so even if I hadn't done them, mine were done twice a day anyway - except I insisted on using my own 'Fastclix' lancet thanks! - but let them use their meter LOL


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## Kaylz (Feb 15, 2021)

@jparrie I'd be complaining at once a day check of BG for a Type 1, also the Libre isn't designed to replace finger pricks and reads completely different things, Abbott themselves recommend checking at times with finger pricks xx


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## Bruce Stephens (Feb 15, 2021)

grovesy said:


> Also the percentage of people in the UK with Type1 who are actually prescribed is quite small still.


Apparently 37% now overall. (Varies, of course. I think there's a couple of CCGs where it's not reached 20% yet.)


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## rebrascora (Feb 15, 2021)

I think you might have been better off buying a "Genteel" lancing device for your mother rather than a Libre system, if it is purely because her fingers are sore. If the Libre is only getting used once a day and her insulin dose(s) are being gauged from that one reading, I would say that you may be putting your mother at more risk. Despite being a huge fan of Libre and unlike others, I do use it to calculate my bolus insulin, there is no way I would rely a single reading a day to give me the information I need to make good decisions about how much insulin I need. The staff who are using the device are also likely unaware of how to use it properly and I think maybe you have also not grasped the 

Also, are you aware that finger pricks don't have to be on the finger and can be taken from other parts of the body like the arm or the fleshy part of the hand at the bottom of the thumb but I think you need a different attachment on the end of the lancing device. The Genteel system covers this in a promo video I think.

I appreciate that you want to improve your mother's quality of life and reduce her discomfort and I applaud you for that but I would suggest that not only are you wasting money on the Libre system but potentially putting her at a slightly increased risk by using it instead of using a blood sample and Blood Glucose meter. You are obviously in a very difficult situation being overseas, but I think most of us who use Libre would agree that this is not the best solution for your mother.


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## jparrie (Feb 15, 2021)

@rebrascora Thanks for your response.  As I have explained above, I live overseas. My mother is in the UK. She is cared for by carers and District Nurses who look after her diabetes requirements at home. So "I" am not responsible for what DNs choose to do, or not to do. I don't know what's best for her, I assume the DNs (under the care of a specialist diabtetes nurse) should. The system isn't a waste of money if it does what it should, which it does for most of the time. It avoids pricking her finger (once per day for whatever reason), and stops her fingers becoming bruised and sore. I have never heard of the "Genteel" system, I will investigate it. Pity the DNs haven't suggested it. And no, I also didn't know that fingers didn't need pricking. Again, clearly the DNs are amateurs at all this, but there is only so much I can do.

EDIT - After searching for the Genteel Lancing system in the UK, everywhere appears to be "out of stock". Is it even available in the UK?


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## trophywench (Feb 15, 2021)

District Nurses aren't under the control of a DSN - we did used to have a Community DSN, but years ago their 'hub' premises were taken over and a social club with sports pitches, connected with a Roman Catholic church, built in its place.

Think you'd have to find out from her GP who pulls the strings locally for your mum.

Sorry - I have to ask - how incapable is your mum?  Is she on a mixed insulin once a day, or what?


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## jparrie (Feb 15, 2021)

Very incapable. Insulin once per day. The diabetes nurse advises the DNs. The GP is missing in action.


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## trophywench (Feb 15, 2021)

Oh dear - sorry about that.  If only she had the capability to wave the reader over the sensor a few times a day, the carers could find out so much more about her BGs.

I typically wince like hell when anyone else bodges my own fingers - every man jack - unless a DSN!!! bodges the middle of the pad holding my hand in a very firm grip as if I was an eel and liable to slither away! - and still asks if I mind them checking my BM - to which I reply No I don't mind at all, but only if you can explain to me why you insist on calling it my BM!  None of em have even heard of Boehringer Mannheim, let alone pronounce it or know of the association of their name to the procedure!


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## danielmg (Feb 25, 2021)

During my phone appt. with the consultant earlier this week, they brought up the Libre 2 change before I could even ask. In fact, there was already a letter on its way (received y'day) outlining the automatic switchover to Libre 2, how to order the new reader and instructions for use. 

For this, I just wanted to send a shoutout to Newcastle Centre for Diabetes Care for being pro-active and managing this changeover very well


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## Baggie79 (Feb 25, 2021)

I have been switched to the Libre 2 and have the reader and a bunch of sensors but I am torn on whether to start it or carry on with my Libre 1. Why you might ask? my L1 has been faultless and I have never had any issues for the past 18 months, the only difference I can see for using the L2 is the alarms.

I initially wanted the L2 as I thought it would send the data automatically to a watch without the need for a third party bluetooth transmitter but apparently this is impossible so I really dont see the point of changing a 100% perfect solution to a new one that could maybe not as reliable.


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## Amity Island (Feb 25, 2021)

Baggie79 said:


> I have been switched to the Libre 2 and have the reader and a bunch of sensors but I am torn on whether to start it or carry on with my Libre 1. Why you might ask? my L1 has been faultless and I have never had any issues for the past 18 months, the only difference I can see for using the L2 is the alarms.
> 
> I initially wanted the L2 as I thought it would send the data automatically to a watch without the need for a third party bluetooth transmitter but apparently this is impossible so I really dont see the point of changing a 100% perfect solution to a new one that could maybe not as reliable.


Hi Baggie79,

I agree with you, the libre 1 for me has been faultless, reliable and accurate. Only thing now is, the Libre 1 sensors will be discontinued farily soon to free up capacity for producing the libre 2 sensors. Also, the libre 1 reader only had to be charged every 2 weeks. The new libre 2 reader only lasts a few days between charges.


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## Baggie79 (Feb 25, 2021)

Also Librelink works well with L1 but not with L2.


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## JJay (Feb 26, 2021)

Baggie79 said:


> Also Librelink works well with L1 but not with L2.


No difference in my experience. Please could you explain?


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## Kaylz (Mar 9, 2021)

Well I had a letter stating it would be a phased roll out and discussed at next review but you could request it early by completing the new modules on Libre Academy, requesting the upgraded reader and emailing them so did all that Saturday night, just hoping they get back to me sometime this week! xx


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