# Football and uncontrollable levels during



## Lion2012 (Mar 30, 2022)

Hi all. Hope all are keeping well. 
I have two topics in one here... Sorry 
My 10 year old son plays academy level football for rufc and England. I am very very proud of this boy not only as he has to deal with t1 diabetes but also cystic fibrosis too. Whilst his Cf is under control and football plays a big part in this his diabetes lately is completely out of control.. Before football we check his levels, if he is in the teens then i allow him to have two jaffa cakes (for example) and inject the correction his accu metre suggests along with the added for his biscuits plus an extra 0.5 on top as cover. 
During football he is reaching astronomical levels of 20s... And after he just rockets way above!!!! Until he slowly drops and drops... And then a few hours later the crashes start. 
The crashes are OK we can deal with. But as he is sooooo high during and after i cannot, and Darent carb him up as cover on the way home to prevent and immediate crash!!! As he is already waaaay to high 
My question is how can i stop these crazy highs during games and training. I cannot enter the pitch to correct as this is academy football...... And checking him every hour during just isn't practical as he may as well not even take part if this is the case. 
Also, he wears his libre 3 sensor. At first i thought this was a great bit of kit but recently this is becoming consuming to all involved. Myself, his teachers at school and leo himself constantly watch, panic and over react when watching the direction of the arrows and with it not being accurate his readings are massively high sometimes having taken into account the direction of the arrows going straight down and introducing carbs to cover this only to find two hours later he's in the teens and 20s... Sleepless nights for over a week now trying to watch this cgm graph and activity... And correcting every 2 hours. 
It seemed like when it was just the finger pricks daily and before bedtime his figures were 10.. 11 for example and id leave him. Hed then wake on a 5..or 6 etc... And thought the day we'll within ranges. Since the libre the amount of tweeks to his accu meter and background insulin... Along with ratios have made things waaaay more stressful and a little out of control watching this thing constantly. At school his teachers are the same. Always watching as his drifts out-of the green then back in. Then out again.. Then back in!!!!!!!!! 
For this reason i am seriously thinking about taking a break from the cgm and reverting back to the traditional finger pricking for a period. 

It just seemed like in the past the good old finger prick without panicking and sleepless nights for us both seemed to work. Yes we had moments of crazy readings but the consummation of these cgms and addicitvness fretting and panicking around every up arrow.. Down arrow only to find his actual blood prick test is within range just isn't worth it... Yes the cgm has alarms etc but at the moment these are going off when things are perfectly OK when finger prick tested.


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## Lucyr (Mar 30, 2022)

I don’t think it’s that surprising that if he’s in the teens and then having Jaffa cakes, that he ends up in the 20s. Have you tried doing the correction earlier before playing to bring the bgs down, and having the Jaffa cakes or sugary drink in the break or timing before he usually crashes, not having them when he’s already high?


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## Inka (Mar 30, 2022)

I’d try to make sure he wasn’t in the teens before football. If he was, I’d decide what to do based on where in the teens he was. If he was, say, 13 or 14, I’d just let him play with no correct. 15 and above I’d do a mini correction. You’d be better off ignoring his meter and working out the corrections yourself IMO.

And yes, if his Libre is causing stress and over-reaction, then maybe take a break from it.


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## Lion2012 (Mar 30, 2022)

Lucyr said:


> I don’t think it’s that surprising that if he’s in the teens and then having Jaffa cakes, that he ends up in the 20s. Have you tried doing the correction earlier before playing to bring the bgs down, and having the Jaffa cakes or sugary drink in the break or timing before he usually crashes, not having them when he’s already high?


Thank you Lucy yes he usually does come down with the added.0.5 on top of the correction dose and jaffa cake carb input but i will look into these options thank you


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## Lion2012 (Mar 30, 2022)

Inka said:


> I’d try to make sure he wasn’t in the teens before football. If he was, I’d decide what to do based on where in the teens he was. If he was, say, 13 or 14, I’d just let him play with no correct. 15 and above I’d do a mini correction. You’d be better off ignoring his meter and working out the corrections yourself IMO.
> 
> And yes, if his Libre is causing stress and over-reaction, then maybe take a break from it.


Thank you so much for your advice i had an inkling that this method may be something to try but without the snack carbs before even though slightly higher i am worried he will crash although he never has before. I will try this thank you so much


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## helli (Mar 30, 2022)

I agree with @Inka regarding exercise at high levels. 
This page provides advice regarding blood sugar levels and exercise. As you can see, it advises against exercising when levels are above 13. I definitely would not be eating any carbs (especially something fast acting like Jaffa cakes) if my levels were that high.
It is also worth bearing in mind that when levels are that high we start to experience insulin resistance so any correction doses may take longer to work. Personally, I find the delay really frustrating and am tempted to stack the insulin but this results in plummeting levels an hour or so later. 
For me, it is very important to let my levels stabilise at a lower level before starting any sport.


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## Lion2012 (Mar 30, 2022)

helli said:


> I agree with @Inka regarding exercise at high levels.
> This page provides advice regarding blood sugar levels and exercise. As you can see, it advises against exercising when levels are above 13. I definitely would not be eating any carbs (especially something fast acting like Jaffa cakes) if my levels were that high.
> It is also worth bearing in mind that when levels are that high we start to experience insulin resistance so any correction doses may take longer to work. Personally, I find the delay really frustrating and am tempted to stack the insulin but this results in plummeting levels an hour or so later.
> For me, it is very important to let my levels stabilise at a lower level before starting any sport.


Thank you for your advice very much appreciated. I will take this on board. Sadly with academy football and indeed England i cannot just... Keep him off the sessions hence trying to work around this. I will work harder to try keep his levels to a decent number.. Maybe 10.11s... As his team did advise before playing.. With no snack. 
And carb him up after. I guess this is all i can do


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## Inka (Mar 30, 2022)

What time of day is the football and how long beforehand would he eat a meal and bolus? That would be something I’d take into consideration too.


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## helli (Mar 30, 2022)

@Lion2012 have you checked out www.runsweet.com?
That site is dedicated to sport and Type 1. It includes pages on Children and sport as well as pages dedicated to different sports at high level - the page on Football features a case study from a guy training with Bournemouth AFC.
I also notice they have a forum. Maybe there are some experiencing your son's issues? (Although their forum doesn't look as professional as this one.)


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## Pattidevans (Mar 30, 2022)

Hi there.  This website specifically deals with sport and diabetes.  http://www.runsweet.com/diabetes-and-sport/. There’s a section on football.  It may help.


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## Pattidevans (Mar 30, 2022)

Oops, Helli beat me to it!


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## Lion2012 (Mar 30, 2022)

Thank you so so much guys.. I honestly appreciate this. 
That is great. I will check this site out


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## Thebearcametoo (Mar 30, 2022)

We found having a dexcom or Libre meant we were micromanaging too much and it caused us all sorts of stresses and made my poor kid miserable so for us when he has a CGM on we treat hypos as they occur but any highs we wait until meal times to deal with. If he’s high before bed and doesn’t want a snack then we only tend to correct if he’s over 12. Our reasoning for not correcting highs during the day is that insulin has a 4-5 hour lifespan (with the peak about an hour after injecting but it stays in the system longer) so correcting too often gets you in a mess as there are too many crossovers of doses. We turn off all high alarms unless it’s a pump change day when he’s using the pump.


If he’s dropping overnight then his basal is too high. If he only drops on nights after exercise then look at which basal he’s on and discuss with his team about what’s the most suitable. Exercise can impact glucose levels for 24 hours or more afterwards so looking at the pattern of what happens the day after sport is also a good idea. Your team’s dietician should be able to go over how to manage exercise with you so you’re not guessing. Ours specialises in sports but any dietician attached to a paediatric diabetes team should have a good understanding of how to manage levels. The team is there to support you and you can email them or call them at any point. You don’t need to wait until clinic. It is possible to manage exercise yourself and adults are often left to muddle through but with children we have a team of people to support us. Use them as your primary ‘how to’ resource then use supplemental info to help you understand the principles behind it. 

Here he would be a prime candidate for a pump which would help manage sports too.


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## Lion2012 (Mar 30, 2022)

Thank you so much for the information on the cgms... I think after his libre 3 runs out i will take a break for a while. 
Re the pump... I know my son and this would severely impact his ability to perform and not commit to challengers 100 percent with this so although i am seriously considering this for the future for now i am happy to leave this........ For now.


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## Thebearcametoo (Mar 30, 2022)

Lion2012 said:


> Thank you so much for the information on the cgms... I think after his libre 3 runs out i will take a break for a while.
> Re the pump... I know my son and this would severely impact his ability to perform and not commit to challengers 100 percent with this so although i am seriously considering this for the future for now i am happy to leave this........ For now.


He can unclip most pumps (not pods) while he’s actually playing if that’s a fear. It’s worth having a good talk with your team about the issues and possible solutions.


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## Lion2012 (Mar 30, 2022)

Just had a call from school to collect my son as he feels shaky... So tired and funny inside. He is not a poorly boy.. Could this be something to do with the few days of highs... Now today he's 4s....?


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## EmmaL76 (Mar 30, 2022)

Absolutely huge swings can leave you feeling dreadful, drained and shakes are common when low. I would imagine 4’s and 5,s would feel very low to your son. I noticed you posted in the middle of the night last night. I’m assuming this is draining you both quite a bit? It’s an awful lot to get your head around, finding the balance between keeping sugars in range and him continuing to enjoy the sports he loves must be very difficult. I can’t offer much in the way of advise, just wanted to say you have support here, keep trying, I know it’s hard and you probably just wish you could take it all away for him but you are doing the best you can and eventually there will be a balance. I hope hes okay this afternoon… whenever my son is off school, we get the duvets on the sofa and he chooses a movie and we snuggle … he would kill me for saying that, he’s 12 now lol


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## Lion2012 (Mar 30, 2022)

Thsnk you so much for those kind words yes i literally haven't slept a full night in around three weeks now. 
I've picked him up and he's absolutely fine ... I think having been so high for days now he's within range but on the lower side as you say has brought on a strange shaky feeling he said he felt low and kept asking the teachers to keep testing him even though he was 4.3... He was adamant he was low and shaky.. Well i guess he is low compared to his past few days..  Hence the feeling. I hope its that anyway as when he'd ate his lunch just before i picked him up he said he felt much better. I've now Copt for watching spiderman on sky store


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## EmmaL76 (Mar 30, 2022)

Ahh so glad he’s feeling a little better. He sounds like an amazing and brave little soul. 
Ooh the new Spider-Man? It’s awesome !! Enjoy some well earned rest the both of you x


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## Lion2012 (Mar 30, 2022)

Thank you Emma much appreciated x
I think ill be asleep


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## EmmaL76 (Mar 30, 2022)

Lion2012 said:


> Thank you Emma much appreciated x
> I think ill be asleep


Yeah it’s kinda long lol


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## Lion2012 (Mar 30, 2022)

EmmaL76 said:


> Yeah it’s kinda long lol


Lol... And expensive lol.... On sky store


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## ColinUK (Mar 30, 2022)

Hopefully Leo feels better soon.


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## Lion2012 (Mar 30, 2022)

ColinUK said:


> Hopefully Leo feels better soon.


Thanks Colin, he's absolutely fine now..... Just battling post 1230pm lunch spikes.....absolutely no idea. As per team upped evening levemere... And am levemere. Yet rocketed again after lunch. Now battling to lower him. Craziness absolute craziness this is... Graph attached. 
I think as he has been so high for days today he was in the 4s at times and i think this made him feel very peculiar... And strange.


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## Leadinglights (Mar 30, 2022)

Lion2012 said:


> Thanks Colin, he's absolutely fine now..... Just battling post 1230pm lunch spikes.....absolutely no idea. As per team upped evening levemere... And am levemere. Yet rocketed again after lunch. Now battling to lower him. Craziness absolute craziness this is... Graph attached.
> I think as he has been so high for days today he was in the 4s at times and i think this made him feel very peculiar... And strange.


Have you questioned whether it is the effect of the new medication as if it is that causing the lows you are then having extra carbs and overshooting which then need correction.
Have a look on line at the possible side effects of the new medications or ask those who prescribed it.


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## Lion2012 (Mar 30, 2022)

Leadinglights said:


> Have you questioned whether it is the effect of the new medication as if it is that causing the lows you are then having extra carbs and overshooting which then need correction.
> Have a look on line at the possible side effects of the new medications or ask those who prescribed it.


Yes it have and no interference with diabetes... Well, with cf related diabetes there MAY be some insulin sensitivity as the new drug breaks down mucus from the pancreas but with leo he is type 1... Not cf related, he just unfortunately has this also.


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## Lion2012 (Mar 30, 2022)

Lion2012 said:


> Yes i have and no interference with diabetes... Well, with cf related diabetes there MAY be some insulin sensitivity as the new drug breaks down mucus from the pancreas but with leo he is type 1... Not cf related, he just unfortunately has this also.


Gradually getting in range now after having to correct twice


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## rebrascora (Mar 30, 2022)

That graph would suggest to me that I hadn't calculated the bolus correctly, especially since it has taken 2 corrections to bring it down although that indicates that you have stacked insulin and may be in for some lows later.... Insulin needs longer to work when levels are high, so you may need to be more patient before injecting a second correction. 
Anyway, what I am saying is that it appears to me that either you carb counted incorrectly or his ratio needs adjusting.

I agree that a break from Libre might be beneficial particularly if you are being tempted to react in real time rather than wait and see how things pan out. You can get into a frustrating situation of chasing the dragons tail.

The big bit of advice that helped me is not to eat carbs if my levels are above 8. If I am hungry I might have a chunk of cheese or a boiled egg or a plate of salad with some coleslaw, but eating carbs when my levels are above 8 is just going to send them into orbit and make my bolus insulin less efficient. If I want to eat some carbs and my levels are above 8, I inject my bolus insulin for them plus whatever correction I need and then wait until levels come down below 8 before I eat and as I said, if I am hungry, I might have something low carb in the form of a snack like meat or eggs or cheese to tide me over.

I really hope you are able to reduce this rollercoaster effect as it must be really stressful and unpleasant for both of you. 

I am also quite concerned that your son is exercising when his BG levels are so high as that will be putting his body under a lot of stress and particularly his heart I would imagine. I appreciate what you are saying but the wellbeing of your son has to come above any commitment or responsibility to the team or training. I would hope that his coaches would not expect him to train when his levels are below 4. To me exertive training when his levels are in the 20s is equally dangerous. It might be a good idea to seek guidance from his diabetic team about safe upper levels to train.

Can I also ask if the school gave Leo any carbs when his levels were 4.3 and he felt shaky. If it was me I would be eating a single jelly baby in that situation to lift my levels a bit. One jelly baby should take me up to low to mid 5s from low to mid 4s. If I drop again then I would eat another JB to push me back up again or perhaps 2 of them to take me up to 6 the second time. If it happens several times in a week then I would consider a basal reduction. It is not clear if this sort of action of giving him small carb snacks to bump his levels up a bit has been taken. To me that seems less disruptive than taking him out of school.

I hope this post doesn't come across as critical because I certainly don't mean it to and I dread to think how I would cope looking after a child with just diabetes let alone another very serious health condition. 
I am just trying to suggest things that might help because I really feel for both of you. In some respects it almost seems like you are trying too hard. The key for me was not letting those levels go high in the first place. Once they go high, it is a real struggle to bring them down and you need more insulin which means more risk of a low at some point later. Once I stopped eating carbs when my levels were above 8 (i usually wait until they come down to 6 or even 5 before I eat but I have a very fast digestive system) it all became a lot easier.


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## Lion2012 (Mar 30, 2022)

rebrascora said:


> That graph would suggest to me that I hadn't calculated the bolus correctly, especially since it has taken 2 corrections to bring it down although that indicates that you have stacked insulin and may be in for some lows later.... Insulin needs longer to work when levels are high, so you may need to be more patient before injecting a second correction.
> Anyway, what I am saying is that it appears to me that either you carb counted incorrectly or his ratio needs adjusting.
> 
> I agree that a break from Libre might be beneficial particularly if you are being tempted to react in real time rather than wait and see how things pan out. You can get into a frustrating situation of chasing the dragons tail.
> ...


Good evening and thank you so so much for this very useful piece of information. I do not for one moment think you are being too critical. I appreciate this i really do.
Leo was taken out of shool today not because of his lows but a general feeling of being unwell, weak, a little shaky etc. His levels although lower were ok. His team think that as he has been so so high for a few days then a day of 'within range' could of made him feel like this. The moment he ate his sandwich he absolutely fine.
I must point out that we have always had very good control of both his cf and diabetes and football is.. Or was used as a vital tool to keep things in check and it did!... His levels were fine during and once we had a routine to deal with the crash afterwards his levels were OK afterwards too. This was until we both contracted covid at Xmas... Missed all of Xmas isolating but luckily asymptomatic and all ok... Ironically Leo's bloods were all fine if not better during covid lol....
Then afterwards when we tested negative a few weeks later the bloods started going crazy... Absolutely crazy.
The cf is under control as leo is very very active meaning his lungs are in good condition what with football and the added kaftrio wonder drug.
Football, although a tool is now something he is excelling at and is so good he represents England  at only 10 years old.
Re the bolus before this does sound like a plan to me and we do actually try this but i sadly cannot wait so long for him to get to below 8 if he is higher as he needs to eat to take his cf drugs etc.... Everything is strict timing you see. Very hard work.
However i do wait 20 mins to 30 mins at times and wait for the arrow and numbers to change down slightly before letting him eat.
Re the jelly babies, i now use Gluco tablets as the jelly babies make him rocket.. Even one... In the past one jelly baby used to take effect within 10 to 15 minutes.... Now a days one jelly baby will take 45 mins plus to work them make him sky high... So two or three he is well away into space.
That is the other thing i notice.. Maybe a creon digestion issue with his cf but sometimes afyer food he just goes UP two or three hours afyer.... Sky high.
His levels are steady at the moment now with 9.5 levemere this eve (been advised to up 0.5)..and 4 units in the morning.
Ill see es how it goes.
Also going back to the waiting until Leo is maybe 8 or under with his levels, sometimes the insulin takes far too long to even twitch the bloods never mind get down very quickly hence why we are now using fiasp... See how this goes.
An image is attached as he is now. Positive.
I must agree with everything you also said about the libre, although such a great kit i am very much on it too soon and just cannot relax. For example i am laid on the sofa now with the phone one the arm watching the graph... Or at least have it open all the time. And in bed i keep the screensaver from locking and keep the phone propt up all night like a bloody heart monitor device so i can watch it.. His teachers are also overly paranoid as well as leo bless him always checking and texting me... If he should panic or not ...
Its just, back in the day when this was just the accu metre finger pricks i checked him before bed.. If he was 8s.. 9s..id give him a small glass of milk and up he went. He'd always wake on 6s.. 5s.....
However, since the libre i now see what goes on in the night that i wasn't privy too originally, even though he woke level i was blind to the fact of all the fluctuations in the night... Possibly huge highs? That i wasn't aware of then came down for the morning... So for this reason i am still worried about going back to the finger prick machine alone.  .
Again though, back then things were much more consistent and level.
Damn you covid.
Ps.. As i type he is creeping up again this is where i usually panic and inject him image attached.......... But now he's 9.8 so ok 
You see how it gets me.

Thank you sooo much again


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## rebrascora (Mar 31, 2022)

I think it is likely that Covid triggered his immune system to kill off a few more beta cells and whereas before he still had some producing insulin to round the edges off his meals and deal with some of his liver output, this has now changed. I had the same after my first Covid vaccine when I had 3 months of battling high levels and then I would inject too much insulin because I got frustrated that it wasn't coming down and I would hypo which was sometimes a bit of a relief after levels were persistently high. I gradually increased my Levemir doses until I was almost on double what I had been before the vaccine. My gut feeling is that you are going through a similar transition period with Leo and the only thing I can say is that it will settle down eventually but you will have to find some new strategies (change ratios and timings) to manage things if I am right and his own insulin production has run dry or at least significantly reduced. The thing with diabetes is that the goal posts keep changing and so do the rules, so you have to keep thinking up new strategies and changing your game to keep winning.... or at least not losing too often.

Is there any reason why he can't take his CF medication with some low carb food when his levels are high (above 8) and delay eating the carbs until his levels are lower.... maybe some chips afterwards..... Perhaps something like an omelette which is quick ad easy to make but very low carb and you can add various fillings like mushrooms and/or cheese/onions/ham/courgettes/tomato etc. Then possibly have his carbs as a dessert/pudding when his levels have come down. 

I think there is maybe something else at play with the jelly babies as they are too small to contain any more carbs than the sugar in them. The key thing with hypos treatments is to chew them really well because the glucose starts being absorbed through the cells of the inside of your mouth. This might be particularly important if he has digestive issues due to the CF.

I understand that obsession with Libre. I sleep with it under my pillow and when I first started using it, I would wake up multiple times a night just to check! Taking a break from it is difficult because you feel really vulnerable, especially the first couple of nights and you have to remind yourself that people managed diabetes absolutely fine 50 years ago without even being able to finger prick. The more tech we get the more vulnerable it can make us feel. I still sleep with my Libre under my pillow but I don't wake up and test unless there is something amiss, either too high or too low. I know it is easier for me because I am taking that responsibility for myself and I have learned that I can rely on my body to warn me, but for you as a third party who can't feel these things it must be doubly scary. I also think that as adults we are much more self aware so can relate how we are feeling to what might be wrong and know that we need to keep ourselves safe even at a subconscious level. Children rely on adults to keep them safe a lot of the time, so they don't perhaps feel that sense of danger and need for self preservation. 

Anyway, I hope you have a peaceful night and get some rest, that drift upwards looks like his evening basal (Levemir) is not enough but I would let it ride for tonight, check his graph from the previous night and if there is an obvious pattern occuring over 2-3 days, consider an increase in the evening Levemir or send him off to bed on a lower level without any extra carbs. Personally if I was on 8, I wouldn't have carbs before bed but it depends what advice your team have given you for safe bedtime readings. I was on 5 tonight so I have had a little snack and now on 7.2 which should be fine, but who knows what sort of spanner the Diabetes Fairy will throw in the works during the night!!


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## rebrascora (Mar 31, 2022)

I also note that you are using Fiasp and this can be a bit quirky for some people. It took me over 3 months to find ways to make it work for me and the first time I tried it, I gave up at 3 months and went back to Novo(not so)Rapid. Second time I tried it, I promised myself I would give it a whole year and about 4months in I started to get the hang of it. When my levels are above 10 it is almost like I have injected water and I need much more (usually stacked corrections which is always a dodgy thing to do) but I have to be very careful with exercise as that really makes it more effective and drops me much quicker than NR ever did. If you have recently changed to Fiasp this may also be adding to your rollercoaster battle and frustrations. I would have happily changed back to NR again at that second 3 month point if I hadn't promised myself to stick it out for a year. I really found it very frustrating.


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## trophywench (Mar 31, 2022)

I will not offer any advice except generally.  

I have absolutely zilch experience of dealing with a T1 child - I wasn't even a child when I was diagnosed!


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## SB2015 (Mar 31, 2022)

I have nothing else to add as the others have included any ideas I have, but I just wanted to say after reading through this thread, WELL DONE.  You are juggling so many things and you should both be very proud of what you are managing, and what a football star. 

T1 throws plenty of puzzles at us, and it is great to get suggestions to try out.  I hope that some of the suggestions work out for your son.


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## EmmaL76 (Mar 31, 2022)

Hope Leo has a better day. He’s absolutely adorable by the way, lovely photo


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## Lion2012 (Mar 31, 2022)

EmmaL76 said:


> Hope Leo has a better day. He’s absolutely adorable by the way, lovely photo


Thank you so much Emma... Hes had a much better day today thank you and up until NOW when I've picked him up his numbers have been much better although a very random out of the blue spike and still rising now... Hes had pe... Nothing strenuous though... Attached the graph


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## Lion2012 (Mar 31, 2022)

SB2015 said:


> I have nothing else to add as the others have included any ideas I have, but I just wanted to say after reading through this thread, WELL DONE.  You are juggling so many things and you should both be very proud of what you are managing, and what a football star.
> 
> T1 throws plenty of puzzles at us, and it is great to get suggestions to try out.  I hope that some of the suggestions work out for your son.


Thank you so much for your kind words of support very much appreciated.... We try to be the best team we can be. It is just so hard at times not having ANY control over this. At all. Just to random.


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## EmmaL76 (Mar 31, 2022)

Lion2012 said:


> Thank you so much Emma... Hes had a much better day today thank you and up until NOW when I've picked him up his numbers have been much better although a very random out of the blue spike and still rising now... Hes had pe... Nothing strenuous though... Attached the graph


Ahh so glad, that graph is looking better already. Thing is with the libre as I’m sure you are aware, those really big spikes are usually not that bad if you were to check with a finger prick and they do say excitement can raise sugars, so at 3pm maybe it was the school bell that did it lol


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## Lion2012 (Mar 31, 2022)

EmmaL76 said:


> Ahh so glad, that graph is looking better already. Thing is with the libre as I’m sure you are aware, those really big spikes are usually not that bad if you were to check with a finger prick and they do say excitement can raise sugars, so at 3pm maybe it was the school bell that did it lol


Yes lol... This is one of the reasons why i am taking a break from this device or any other cgm... The addictive obsessive behaviour and panicky corrections following the directions of numbers and arrows is just not working for us at the moment. Once i hit a decent range i am leaving it for a while x


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## EmmaL76 (Mar 31, 2022)

As folks on here could tell you I would hands down beat you in the obsessive scanning and overthinking/ blind panicking department lol. If it was my child I can imagine that would send me round the bend!! So your doing great. X


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## Lion2012 (Mar 31, 2022)

Thank you, very nice of you to say Emma you tend to lose focus in the midst of all the sensors... Carb counting... Sleepless nights and worry. 
Thank you x


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## EmmaL76 (Mar 31, 2022)

Lion2012 said:


> Thank you, very nice of you to say Emma you tend to lose focus in the midst of all the sensors... Carb counting... Sleepless nights and worry.
> Thank you x


Your so welcome. Well just keep posting, even in the middle of the night !! You would be surprised how many of us lurk on here in the small hours. Thats when I have some of my finest meltdowns x


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## Lion2012 (Mar 31, 2022)

EmmaL76 said:


> Your so welcome. Well just keep posting, even in the middle of the night !! You would be surprised how many of us lurk on here in the small hours. Thats when I have some of my finest meltdowns x


I certainly will.... Its the only time i get to have a meltdown too


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## Lion2012 (Apr 1, 2022)

02:26...and another sleepless night battling post football crashes and after effects of corrections......... Sick and tired of these yo yo scenarios after football.
Before covid we had all this under control and routinely ironed out...(far better than this anyway).
The day went great.. All within range, a very random spike at 230pm rocketed up to 15.. 16s....
Corrected when home from school. Down to 11 before football.
NO pre snack, training went well up and down during. After training he was 15!!!!!!!.
Did not do any corrections on the way home as anxiously waiting the CRASH....
Slowly crept up and down up and down but remained in the 15s when tea ready.
As it took rather longer than it ever ever does to crash and come down i did not take 15g of carbs off like i usually would to take into account any crashing and also very stupidly gave extra 0.5 to get him within range where he needs to be through the night.
You guessed it!.... Out of the blue, plummeted from 12s to 2.9!!!!!!!!!!!!...... Then the corrections, three glucose tablets, small glass (quatre) of milk.
Started to rise arrow diagonally off the bottom. Got to 6s..... Then within an hour crashing again!!!!!.......
Another 2 glucose tablets and a biscuit before bed.....
Started to climb.... Stayed at 6s 7s.. 8s..... Then rocketed!!!!!! In typical Leo body metabolism digestion fashion all the corrections started to officially kick in at once hours later!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now battling the highs.
I'm so so fed up. We use football as a tool to keep all of this in check!!! Lungs.... Bloods.... And ever since covid we have had the biggest RESET you would not believe, the problem is, i just cannot get it back to how it was.
I was considering leaving out the libre cgm?.... But if it wasn't for this thing the 2.9 crash would never had been detected as leo said he felt slightly weak but didn't say anything :-(.
So for the alarms sake... It was valuable.
Even though it didn't alert me at 3.9 like it should as leo plummeted so so fast it just detected the 2.9.... In time.
The reverse of this i am now glued to the sensor watching the phone for any come downs!!!!!! Still bloody 17s
Somebody once said on here that i may be trying too hard if anything, I tend to agree but just cannot leave the lows to chance when i see no upward improvement, and once again because Leo's little body takes sooooo long to digest the mega boosts of added carbs.. The over carbs happens hours later.
Impossible for me.


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## EmmaL76 (Apr 1, 2022)

Oh no ! This is terrible for you both.  I’m so sorry you are having to go through this on top of everything else you have both had to contend with. How is Leo handling all this? Not sure you can ever try to hard for your kids… but his must be so emotionally/ physically draining on you. Do   You have much support around you?  Do you have to work also? Poor Leo must feel quite tired at school with these ups and downs and broken sleep. I’m sending 2 hugs, be sure to give leo his when he wakes up xx


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## Lion2012 (Apr 1, 2022)

EmmaL76 said:


> Oh no ! This is terrible for you both.  I’m so sorry you are having to go through this on top of everything else you have both had to contend with. How is Leo handling all this? Not sure you can ever try to hard for your kids… but his must be so emotionally/ physically draining on you. Do   You have much support around you?  Do you have to work also? Poor Leo must feel quite tired at school with these ups and downs and broken sleep. I’m sending 2 hugs, be sure to give leo his when he wakes up xx


Bless you thanks Emma. 
Leo is absolutely fine and is always full of beans, he always says he feels no difference apart from the drastic lows obviously. 
Apart from his team of professionals no real support, i do work but i am lucky that i own the business so i only work Mon tue weds now... Handy for any hospital appointments if needed. 
My family all work so although the words say they are always their if needed, in reality the world moves on and they all have commitments. Saying this though they would be there if anything serious happens and i am in need yes. Leo used to stay with his grandad to give me a break every Friday but football pretty much takes over and he consistently has indoor futsal on Fridays now.  I don't let him stay sat eve as he plays early Sunday morning so i want him in bed at a decent hour. 
Let's see how today goes. Yesterday was good apart from the out if the blue spike. Id be interested to see if the spike happens at the same time today


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## EmmaL76 (Apr 1, 2022)

So glad he doesn’t suffer too much. Sounds like such a brave boy.
Wow you run a business too! Been there … it is great for the fact that you can take time when you need it but demands it bring can be tough. I totally understand your commitment to your son, what you are doing is amazing and you have both gone through a lot.  Just make sure you look after yourself too!


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## rebrascora (Apr 1, 2022)

So sorry to hear you had a rough night after a much better day.

4 things occur to me from reading your post..... 

1. Do you finger prick when he is hypo to assess his recovery or do you rely solely on Libre as that may well be causing you to over treat hypos. Libre is too slow to respond to changes in BG levels at this critical time and will not give you accurate info. Always use finger pricks to check and treat hypos (and hypers)
2. The hypo treatments you are giving seem to be fast and slow carbs together. I may be misreading this. 
The advice is to give 15g fast acting carbs which is 3-4 glucose tablets and then retest with a finger prick after 15 mins. If his levels haven't come back up above 4, then give another 3-4 glucose tablets and retest in 15 mins again. Only once levels are above 4 should you consider 10g slower acting carbs like a biscuit or milk. If you persistently find that levels go very high after a hypo then the slower acting carbs may not be necessary. As I mentioned before, chewing the glucose tablets really well will increase the speed of absorption of the glucose so do encourage Leo to do that. 
3. What did he have for his evening meal? I am wondering if this might be a case of a tricky food like pizza (or creamy pasta dishes) which are very slow to release their glucose, so the Fiasp kicked in and brought him down and then the carbs from the meal released, added to the hypo treatment, and took his levels into orbit.
4.When does he inject his evening Levemir? Just wondering if the Levemir has kicked in about the same time as the Fiasp and added to that sudden plummet in levels.

When did you change to using Fiasp? Could it be that the Fiasp is part of the cause of this instability in levels. As I mentioned in my post above it isn't necessarily as straightforward as you would expect swapping bolus insulin and Fiasp can be tricky.

Really hope Leo's levels are more stable today. What was his waking reading?


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## Lion2012 (Apr 1, 2022)

rebrascora said:


> So sorry to hear you had a rough night after a much better day.
> 
> 4 things occur to me from reading your post.....
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for this. The info re the glucose tablets only and only slow carbing when up sounds sensible and something i never do thank you for that. I always finger prick once the libre shows low or high as i am aware of the delay and indeed 3 to 4 numbers adrift from the finger prick for example if the libre showed 18... His finger prick was 14.... Sometimes. But then sometimes it is more closely matched. Bizarre.
Leo had his Levermere after the correction treatment around just before bed.... He had fish fingers chips and garden peas for tea followed by a muller yoghurt. He tends to eat very similar meals only... Absolutely not interested in change which is good for numbers and carb counting but dietary wise not great. Leo has to have high calorie fatty foods for his cystic fibrosis also. Which makes this whole treatment more difficult.
He has to exercise plenty hence the football but then the his health team want him to keep putting weight on...?  Vicious circle.
With the diabetes they want him to watch carbs etc yet cf need him to eat plenty of high calorie meals... All clashing with one another making it that much more difficult
He woke on a 9 this am.... Finger prick


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## Thebearcametoo (Apr 1, 2022)

Having tied myself in knots trying to keep my kid in target with a CGM without the complicating factor of CF I understand the worries and frustrations. For us doing less worked better. Fewer corrections. Allowing higher levels if we understood the reasons for it. Not doing multiple corrections for highs (only using the correction factor in the meter at meals) etc. I wonder if having a week of minimal tweaking would help to be able to see the climate rather than the weather IYSWIM. Obviously treat hypos as they happen though.


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## trophywench (Apr 1, 2022)

I have to say whenever I eat fatty food, eg pizza and chips, fish and chips, cheese onion & bacon pie, Grandad's spaghetti (half a ton of cheddar) - the increase isn't a spike, it's still gradual, and then stops.  Lovely, relax .......  5-ish hours later - SPIKE!

If you observe when the later rise happens, you can then split the bolus for that meal - x percent upfront as per normal, then z time after, the second part of it.  With a pump, you can drip all or part of  the bolus in gradually over a couple of hours but none cater for a 2 part bolus with a ruddy great gap in the middle, automatically - the User has to deal with it themselves however they deliver their insulin!


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## JakeyWills (Apr 2, 2022)

Lion2012 said:


> Hi all. Hope all are keeping well.
> I have two topics in one here... Sorry
> My 10 year old son plays academy level football for rufc and England. I am very very proud of this boy not only as he has to deal with t1 diabetes but also cystic fibrosis too. Whilst his Cf is under control and football plays a big part in this his diabetes lately is completely out of control.. Before football we check his levels, if he is in the teens then i allow him to have two jaffa cakes (for example) and inject the correction his accu metre suggests along with the added for his biscuits plus an extra 0.5 on top as cover.
> During football he is reaching astronomical levels of 20s... And after he just rockets way above!!!! Until he slowly drops and drops... And then a few hours later the crashes start.
> ...


Hi Lion, 

Sorry to hear about your son having difficulty with high blood sugar levels whilst playing football. 
I have had the exact same experiences with this, as a type one diabetic who has played football for 8 years majority at a county level. My bloods sugars, the same as your son, sky rocketed during and after and would drop very low a few hours after. The reason for this is your body generally drops glucose into your system when playing high intensity activity as a normal reaction which of course isn’t great for type one diabetics. I would definitely advice against eating a couple of Jaffa cakes before the training days or match days, especially if his levels are within double figures. Between 5-8 is an understandable level to give one at a push, however maybe revert to drinking a juice carton which gives some sort of naturally sugars to gradually push your son away from any chance of hypo during the games (this worked wonders for me, very cheap in Tesco to pick up). Some games it is worth quickly checking your bloods at half time, if they seem to be increasing last 12.5 it may be sensible to do an injection to stop the bloods soaring afterwards. 
After games, my bloods do tend to drop a few hours after which is similar to your son, but having a late lunch or early dinner depending on game times can sort this out. 

I feel your pressure for the constant worrying of the libre graph directions as you can get hung up on these figures quickly, and people who don’t understand diabetes will be worried (as you mentioned). However, I do believe for the long term this is the preferred option to finger pricks. Especially during activity, it’s easier to get your phone up then sort out the strips and fingers pricks while your son could be going high/low. Although, of course this is just my personal opinion and not words to live by since every diabetic is different. I have been on the libre for 2 years nearly and I much prefer this system when monitoring around my sports activities. I do not have the alarms on either as I don’t want to be constantly reminded, however since your son is still at a much younger age, these could be set around the 14 or up level so it’s not so constant. 

To help curve the drop afterwards, I usually have quite a big glass of milk (have a bit of milkshake to spice things up a bit) and for me that slowly releases to help stop me having hypos afterwards. However, any slow releasing sort of carb can hopefully help. 

Regardless of the above advice, keep up the good work! I know it’s very stressful to manage your sons health at such a young age but you sound like you’re doing a great job! He’ll be on track to achieve everything and more. 
Best of luck
Jake


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## Lion2012 (Apr 3, 2022)

Thebearcametoo said:


> Having tied myself in knots trying to keep my kid in target with a CGM without the complicating factor of CF I understand the worries and frustrations. For us doing less worked better. Fewer corrections. Allowing higher levels if we understood the reasons for it. Not doing multiple corrections for highs (only using the correction factor in the meter at meals) etc. I wonder if having a week of minimal tweaking would help to be able to see the climate rather than the weather IYSWIM. Obviously treat hypos as they happen though.


Hey there thank you very much for the advice. Yes the moment i see his arrow vertical in the upward position i do tend to try and correct as from past experience he just climbs well.. Most of the time. 
But i will try this method and see how it goes for sure. See if it does eventually even out.. Couple of good days of late but last night just stayed in the 12s... On his libre, his finger prick around 10.. 11 so not too bad although I did try correct a couple of times through the night (sleepless nights habits).. Only buy 0.5 units and the bizarre thing is it doesn't bloody move.. No change. And if it does he may slightly drop to 11s then two hours later up to 12.8s again..... Always the case really unless i over insulin him by 0.5 at a time. But then I'm very conscious obviously of lows 
His team rang me in the week as they just couldn't work out the random and extreme spikes... I mean proper rocket spikes at different times of the day but not all the time. The spikes are that pacey the line on the graph is almost straight up.... And up. And up. 
They have suggested a pump now. And almost guaranteed this would keep him on range most of the night and day. I tried avoiding this for many many months as he plays academy level football but i am now so exhausted i need the weight shifting on a little as selfish as this may sound, i am out of options and shattered. 
The last straw was during a football futsal indoor tournemant last Friday eve... I don't snack him before matches now and thus seems to work.. For the first quatre of the game. He's great.. Smashing the game. 
But then as the tournemant went on his climbed and climbed and climbed into the mid 20s!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was up on the balcony so couldn't do anything. Luckily he looked up and i told him to inject a small correction. This still didn't work enough. 
He was just so high. As the matches went on. This frustrates the hell out of me and never... ever... Had this in the past. Since covid at Xmas just cannot control the football highs no matter what figure he starts on!!!! 
So after seeing a professional football Ben coker is using a pump.... T slim i have changed my mind and decided to give it a shot. I have been texting Ben and he says he detaches the pump for training and during matches. Then re attaches after to initiate any corrections etc. Now this ke and leo could work with. 
I am however a bit disappointed about the tube factor on the tslim. Sleeping with this etc.... The tech out their at the mo and the devices still run on tubes??.... 
Now the omnipod 5.. Not out yet, is the pump i am definitely interested in as its tubeless... And can be used with the libre 3.... 
The tslim can only be used with dexcom and leo has always had the libre. 
Should i give the pump a go????...... And if so would people the tslim be the one??? I need less work for me


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## Lion2012 (Apr 3, 2022)

JakeyWills said:


> Hi Lion,
> 
> Sorry to hear about your son having difficulty with high blood sugar levels whilst playing football.
> I have had the exact same experiences with this, as a type one diabetic who has played football for 8 years majority at a county level. My bloods sugars, the same as your son, sky rocketed during and after and would drop very low a few hours after. The reason for this is your body generally drops glucose into your system when playing high intensity activity as a normal reaction which of course isn’t great for type one diabetics. I would definitely advice against eating a couple of Jaffa cakes before the training days or match days, especially if his levels are within double figures. Between 5-8 is an understandable level to give one at a push, however maybe revert to drinking a juice carton which gives some sort of naturally sugars to gradually push your son away from any chance of hypo during the games (this worked wonders for me, very cheap in Tesco to pick up). Some games it is worth quickly checking your bloods at half time, if they seem to be increasing last 12.5 it may be sensible to do an injection to stop the bloods soaring afterwards.
> ...


Hi jake and thank you for the response very very nice to hear from similar experiences and sounds like you are managing very well indeed. 
His team have now suggested a pump as they just cannot understand the spikes.. Random spikes etc... I have tried to keep this away for many months but after speaking to Ben coker who plays professional football he advised that he himself wears an insulin pump and detaches before matches etc. 
Do you think this is something i should consider for Leo i genuinely have no idea what to do for the best. 
. I appreciate this is merely advice and nothing more but i would very much appreciate it. 
I appreciate everyone's help on the forum I really do. 
Its just the tube idea on the tslim that puts me off massively particularly as leo is so active


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## helli (Apr 3, 2022)

Lion2012 said:


> Hey there thank you very much for the advice. Yes the moment i see his arrow vertical in the upward position i do tend to try and correct as from past experience he just climbs well.. Most of the time.
> But i will try this method and see how it goes for sure. See if it does eventually even out.. Couple of good days of late but last night just stayed in the 12s... On his libre, his finger prick around 10.. 11 so not too bad although I did try correct a couple of times through the night (sleepless nights habits).. Only buy 0.5 units and the bizarre thing is it doesn't bloody move.. No change. And if it does he may slightly drop to 11s then two hours later up to 12.8s again..... Always the case really unless i over insulin him by 0.5 at a time. But then I'm very conscious obviously of lows
> His team rang me in the week as they just couldn't work out the random and extreme spikes... I mean proper rocket spikes at different times of the day but not all the time. The spikes are that pacey the line on the graph is almost straight up.... And up. And up.
> They have suggested a pump now. And almost guaranteed this would keep him on range most of the night and day. I tried avoiding this for many many months as he plays academy level football but i am now so exhausted i need the weight shifting on a little as selfish as this may sound, i am out of options and shattered.
> ...


Don't be out off by tubes. They rarely get in the way (they can be tucked under clothing) and have the huge added advantage that the pump can be removed.
A patch pump Luke Ombipod is stick in place for 3 days so could be a problem when playing football if Leo is concerned about challenges.


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## Lion2012 (Apr 3, 2022)

helli said:


> Don't be out off by tubes. They rarely get in the way (they can be tucked under clothing) and have the huge added advantage that the pump can be removed.
> A patch pump Luke Ombipod is stick in place for 3 days so could be a problem when playing football if Leo is concerned about challenges.


Thank you for that very much appreciated


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## JakeyWills (Apr 3, 2022)

Lion2012 said:


> Hi jake and thank you for the response very very nice to hear from similar experiences and sounds like you are managing very well indeed.
> His team have now suggested a pump as they just cannot understand the spikes.. Random spikes etc... I have tried to keep this away for many months but after speaking to Ben coker who plays professional football he advised that he himself wears an insulin pump and detaches before matches etc.
> Do you think this is something i should consider for Leo i genuinely have no idea what to do for the best.
> . I appreciate this is merely advice and nothing more but i would very much appreciate it.
> ...


Hi Lion, 

Many thanks for your reply, I can’t say I can offer too much advice with the pump and I haven’t had one, but it’s great news that Ben Coker has been in touch to give some advice on this. 
It is completely down to yourself and your sons preference surrounding this, however with you son’s cystic fibrosis condition he may be succeptible to the area getting infected but again I may be completely off with this advice. Additionally, at a younger age at the higher levels of football, it may be a worry if someone goes in for rough football challenge and physically barges into the insulin pump region so this may be best to get advice from people who have one within the forum, or particularly with your local diabetic team.

Hope you manage to get all the above sorted and get some answers. 

Best of luck, 
Jake


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## trophywench (Apr 3, 2022)

Anyone happen to know whether Henry Slade has a pump?


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## Thebearcametoo (Apr 4, 2022)

trophywench said:


> Anyone happen to know whether Henry Slade has a pump?


He uses a Dexcom but I think injects from things he’s said.


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## helli (Apr 4, 2022)

trophywench said:


> Anyone happen to know whether Henry Slade has a pump?


Chris Pennell was certainly injecting when he spoke about his Type 1 management.


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