# Whole food plant based diet



## Deleted member 33898 (Aug 23, 2022)

Has anyone on here tried this and found it successful for glucose management ? And I mean the the type were it's high carb low fat and low protein as opposed to low carb high fat diet. 

Are there huge spikes at first and then they settle due to reduced insulin resistance from consuming less fat? Would you say it costs alot to maintain compared to a normal diet ?


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## helli (Aug 23, 2022)

My diet is primarily plant based and I do not limit my carbs but I wouldn't give it a specific name.

My approach has always been to learn how to use the tools I am given to live the life I want rather than to change my life as that would feel as if I am letting diabetes take over. 
So, I used the tools (insulin and blood glucose testing) to allow me to eat the diet part of my life that I want. This makes eating out and socialising relatively easy. 
I don't see huge spikes not because my body is used to the diet but because I dose my insulin appropriately.

Thankfully, I do not experience insulin resistance. It is interesting that you ask as I have read that low carb can make insulin resistance worse. This is not something I have researched - it is just something I read in passing and it lodged in my brain. 

@phil90 given you have Type 1 diabetes, what are your goals you are trying to achieve and challenges you are trying to overcome through a whole food based plant diet?


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## Deleted member 33898 (Aug 23, 2022)

@helli honestly despite putting some positive posts up in the past iam totally at the mercy of my diabetes. Pretty much constantly thinking about it, worrying and stressing everyday. I read about diets, management and so on in any spare time. I find myself re  reading the same info over and over again . Im just not the best at problem solving and applying solutions. I've been in denial thinking my current ways are working because they are not. I'm very fixated on eating a certain amount of carbs per meal and eating a certain amount of protein and fat per meal. Protein has to be at least 30g and fat between 20g and 30g. Eating everyday is stressful to me. Even though I eat similar meals each day I still panic before thinking what I'm I going eat and yet I'll eat the same foods. At first I added fat and protein to gain more weight without upping the carbs too much. When I found they helped my levels a bit I stuck to this set amount of nutrients for each meal. But I'd definitely say for a while now signs have been there that something isn't quite right. Having more  posts meal spikes above 10 which I thought I got rid of , spiking an hour and half after a meal and not coming back down without a walk or insulin or both. Upping ratios and tweaking timings with no impact. It's exhausting. A typical day now is go from  4 to 10, either correct or walk when levels aren't budging then come crashing down. On to the next meal and repeat. The only meal that isn't soo bad is dinner probably because of exercise but I then spike while I'm sleeping. Having to get up and correct then crash and correct , barely sleeping. When I go high I get burning in my lower legs and feet, itchy eyes and find it hard to stay awake in work( I'm pretty sure this isn't in my head) All I think about is how I'm probably going to become very ill down the line because I can't get myself some sort of stability. 

Basically I'm looking for a silver bullet even though I know there isn't one. Maybe if I can follow a diet plan without having to think too much myself I can gain some sanity back and ultimately my life. I'm just fed up with all this. I bug my family talking about it all the time, my partner and my friends. Look I'm even on here complaining once again. I know no one can do this for me but I'm getting desperate now .


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## Inka (Aug 23, 2022)

I think you’re being too strict @phil90 You ‘spike’ then rush to get it down with insulin or exercise then crash. It’s a horrible situation to be in. If you’re sure your basal is right - always a good first thing to check - ease off on the control slightly. Type 1 is a beast. You need to pace yourself. It will burn you out very quickly if you let it.

I know how frustrating and stressful ‘wrong’ numbers are, but dealing with them is more of a mental task than a practical one. It’s the emotional burden that will get you down. Just ease off a tiny bit. Remember - perfection is impossible, and, more than that, pursuing it is a path to stress and burnout.

A WFPB diet is fine if you want, but choose it for its own reasons not because of the diabetes.


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## Deleted member 33898 (Aug 23, 2022)

@Inka i really don't know anymore. It's probably more to do with my personality but it's who iam . I've always been very obsessive and let things get to me easily. Unfortunately I think the diet choice would be mainly for diabetes. I think I had a month were I was feeling happy in the last year but somehow that got away from me and I can't seem to get back to it. my bloods were more stable then and thats the reason why, I have no doubt. I feel terrible for my partner too cause she has to listen to me everyday. I absolutely despise the job I switched to last year before my diagnosis and have an interview lined up for another but I've been soo preoccupied with diabetes that I haven't prepared at all. It is definitely in control of my life now. It really feels like a nightmare from waking to the few hours of sleep I manage a day. That's just how I feel unfortunately. I've said to myself many times lately I don't want to eat or I don't want to take insulin anymore. It seems like soo much time and effort for little return. This last week I haven't had 3 meals over a couple of days. Not for basal testing but because my levels  spiked at the previous meal or overnight and I didn't want to be dealing with it again. It just feels like it's getting more difficult to handle. I need a total reset


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## Inka (Aug 23, 2022)

Speak to your team @phil90 They can give practical support as well as emotional. I phoned mine once when I was very stressed with high levels, even though I’ve had diabetes for decades, and the DSN was fantastic. She told me what to do and having someone else take-over like that for me was a big relief.

Reset your thinking about spikes. I’ve had a pretty sh*t year with my blood sugar for various reasons and the only way I’ve dealt with it was by lowering my expectations. It had me in tears. Don’t let it do that to you. Raise your targets a little. It’s like letting some pressure out of a bottle. You have to do it else the bottle/you will explode. Even if you just give yourself a month of more relaxed targets, you’ll feel the benefit.

Remember, all those really old people you read about who’ve had diabetes for 70 or 80 years spent their first decades urine testing, using much less flexible insulin regimes, etc etc, and they’re ok. I think part of the trick is routine. Stick to the same two or three breakfasts and lunches. You’ll know your bolus dose then and don’t have to think or make decisions. That mental break is invaluable.

You’re not alone. The most difficult part of Type 1 isn’t the injections, it’s the relentlessness of it day after day and the fact that getting control is like trying to hammer jelly to the wall. Take one day at a time and do the best you can _within reasonable limits. _Try not to react to the numbers too much_. _Importantly, also make time to live your life. Celebrate every success no matter how small. Try to reframe things from negative to positive. I also recommend maybe seeing a counsellor. They don’t have to know much about diabetes. They listen and help you identify your thoughts and look at them in a different way.


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## Deleted member 33898 (Aug 24, 2022)

@Inka I really appreciate your reply. I had reached out to my Doctor again recently as my mental health hasn't been great. I've been waiting a few months to get counselling started, as like everything there is a waiting list. I was briefly on anti depressants but they had me falling asleep at random times of the day so I stopped them. Another assessment is supposed to happen with the mental health team but I'm already on a waiting list so not sure the reason for this. They also arranged an appointment with the diabetic clinic who I then contacted myself as I couldn't make it and asked for another time but their reception is pretty woeful it seems at arranging or passing on messages as I haven't heard anything. I just feel like I'm probably wasting their time when they are dealing with new diabetics. Wasn't too long ago I finished counselling for a long running gambling addiction as I had a relapse after being diagnosed. But I guess there is always someone in a worse position than I am. That's what we are always told. 

I'm going to apply some of what you have said best I can. Relaxing targets might be the one thing I'll feel most uncomfortable with but I'll try. I think the clinic could have done better at the beginning to set me realistic goals. I ended up online and finding these targets that I probably shouldn't have been considering for a while. Worst thing they did was give me the libre sensor 2 days into diagnosis. And it is never been accurate enough for me, always out by 1.5 to 2 mmol. I used xdrip for a while to calibrate but then this was even more info that made me more obsessed. I still finger prick up to 10 times a day because I don't trust the sensor accuracy. I want to believe that everything is going to be okay even if I can't manage okay levels but there too many stories of those with near non diabetic levels still getting complications, I even read a post the other day on here. Not very encouraging. I think the food aspect is very difficult. I can't see a solution to what I currently eat. I've tried pre bolus times ranging from none up to as much as I can handle before hypoing, makes no difference. There was something helping me before, perhaps my own insulin or I've built up insulin resistance. Its anyone's guess really.

Anyway I'm sorry to hear you have had a rough time this year and hope all is well. Thanks again


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## john e (Aug 24, 2022)

phil90 said:


> reception is pretty woeful it seems at arranging or passing on messages as I haven't heard anything. I just feel like I'm probably wasting their time when they are dealing with new diabetics.


No your not, try again


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## Inka (Aug 24, 2022)

You’re not wasting their time @phil90 That’s what they’re there for - anyone who needs help however long they’ve been diagnosed. We all have periods of challenge even if we’ve had diabetes for years. You’re pretty recently diagnosed too so don’t feel guilty for one moment. 

There are always people worse off than us, yes, but that doesn’t mean we’re not entitled to care. DSNs are brilliant and they support us all, whatever our age, abilities, or how long we’ve been diagnosed. 

If you want some positive vibes, have a look at some of the Type 1 research. I’d become quite cynical about ‘a cure in five years’ because I’ve heard it so many times before, but recently there have been some great breakthroughs - and some big money to support research. I now have much more confidence that we’ll find a cure soon. We just have to keep going, one day at a time. You’re not alone - remember that.


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## Deleted member 33898 (Aug 25, 2022)

I'll see if I can get them on the phone today. Who knows maybe they'll see something I don't. I guess I thought after a year things would be somewhat easier. I woke up this morning and lay in bed thinking for 30 minutes about what food I should have, if it was the right choice, should I take more bolus or less, should I add something to it. This way of thinking has me skipping meals more often lately. I think not wanting to give up before conceding to one of these strict diets is what plagues me everyday. There seems to be too many success stories with very low carb or very high carb eating. 

Yes I've seen a few promising bits of research. I'm hopeful there may be some sort of cure or least close to it within 5 to 10 years. Of course I'd like to be comfortable and healthy as possibly before that day comes.


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## Inka (Aug 25, 2022)

That’s why I usually have one of two breakfasts - I can’t cope with waking up and having to think like that. It sounds boring but it’s a relief not to have to think.

I don’t think you need a strict diet. Some general principles would be enough. The Mediterranean Diet is good for general health, for example. There is *no* magic diet that makes Type 1 easy. Believe me, I’d have found it if there was! Each method has its disadvantages and no diet will give perfect sugars. More than that, it’s not just about blood sugar. No good having a fab HbA1C if you clog up your arteries, for example! 

I just try to eat moderately - moderate fats, moderate carbs - and try to fit lots of veg in, along with pulses and whole grains. So vaguely Mediterranean, I guess.


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## Deleted member 33898 (Aug 25, 2022)

@Inka yeah I'm just deciding on what 2 breakfast meals to go forward with. There are 4 I go between but find the 3 with grains cause the most problems, especially oats. 1 is low in carbs and probably is the main reason why I get half the spike in comparison to the others. Can't say I enjoy the low carb one though 

I feel as though I have tried to do as much as I can to keep something resembling my pre diagnosis diet. I always had oats more or less by themselves but for the last year I added chia seeds, peanut butter etc to slow it down. But even that trick has stopped working. 

My lunches are pretty much always bread to make a sandwich and I definitely find it boring. And of course I get the worst levels at lunch time, always have. 

Dinner is hit and miss but mostly okay. Again I think it's to do with exercise. Plus I've been finding some of your examples like pulses to have next to no spike but I go low instead. Trading one issue for another haha...

Example of lower evening, high breakfast and higher lunch. Went down fast at lunch because I walked. Then it starts to go back up again for whatever reason 3 hours after eating.


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## Inka (Aug 27, 2022)

That’s a brief spike @phil90 and you didn’t go exceptionally high. If you come back into range, I’d just leave it personally. As for oats, I find it makes a big difference which ones you buy. The best are the whole/jumbo steel cut oats. They’re absorbed more slowly and don’t cause as big a spike as the powdery processed oats. 

I generally have cereal for breakfast. It took me a while to work out the best insulin dose. I generally need slightly more insulin for cereal than, say, a croissant of the same carbs. I weighed out my cereal and then ate it day after day, testing and noting down anything significant. That way I was able to find the bolus that worked. So, when I have cereal now, I just weigh it and inject the correct amount of units. It’s a case of persistence and sheer bloodymindedness.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Aug 28, 2022)

Sorry to hear what a tough time you’ve been having with your menu @phil90 

Diabetes is relentless, and feeling like you are in a daily battle where it’s just waiting to pounce on you for no reason can be so draining and demoralising 

Hope you get some positive support from your clinic, and do chase up that counselling and MH support. T1 associates with disordered eating, and that can take many forms, and does not differentiate between sex or gender


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## Deleted member 33898 (Aug 29, 2022)

@Inka I might just give up on oats. The steel cut ones are hard to find. Been having rolled oats. Tried them as overnight oats, added chia seeds and all sorts. Still spike everytime.Having better luck with bran flakes so might concentrate on them. Just need to change my way of thinking a bit. Like I couldn't just be given a bowl with some milk to eat. Ive convinced myself adding some fat to it helps, eating in the order of fruit egg branflakes etc I don't know maybe this something others do aswell.  Surprisingly though I had some on the go oat bar with an apple and nuts the other day when I was in a hurry . I got the tinyest spike. Lowish fat and practically no protein. How that happened I don't know. 

Lunch may be a bigger challenge. Its thinking of what to eat I guess. I've never had much of an imagination and generally a fussy eater. 

@everydayupsanddowns  thank you. It's really alot of time and effort I'd rather be using elsewhere. It's like a timer is set right after I have one meal to the next and I try to go about day to day things but I'm also thinking of the next meal and how it will go. 

Clinic have been difficult unfortunately. They called me back and said they have an appointment day and time but I said I have a mental health appointment that would conflict with it. They said that would be my 3rd failed appointment. Don't know how as there only was one I know of and I told them in advance I couldn't go and to reschedule. Just told me they would get back to me which probably means they won't. Might have to return to my GP to do a bit of whinging.


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## nonethewiser (Aug 29, 2022)

phil90 said:


> @Inka I might just give up on oats. The steel cut ones are hard to find. Been having rolled oats. Tried them as overnight oats, added chia seeds and all sorts. Still spike everytime.Having better luck with bran flakes so might concentrate on them. Just need to change my way of thinking a bit. Like I couldn't just be given a bowl with some milk to eat. Ive convinced myself adding some fat to it helps, eating in the order of fruit egg branflakes etc I don't know maybe this something others do aswell.  Surprisingly though I had some on the go oat bar with an apple and nuts the other day when I was in a hurry . I got the tinyest spike. Lowish fat and practically no protein. How that happened I don't know.
> 
> Lunch may be a bigger challenge. Its thinking of what to eat I guess. I've never had much of an imagination and generally a fussy eater.
> 
> ...



Big oats lover here, brand been buying for last 2 years is Quakers Ultimare Oats, they are ultra thick & taste delicious, have 60g portion for brekkie most mornings without going into double figures.


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## Inka (Aug 29, 2022)

I often have a sourdough sandwich for lunch @phil90 Rye bread is good too. Again, a case of experimenting. I tend to buy the same two or three breads. Then I add fruit, yoghurt or whatever for after my sandwich. Sometimes I have a salad and bread alongside. I pretty much have some variation of that most days. I then know how much insulin to have and it takes some of the stress and thinking away.

The oats I use when I can’t find ‘proper’ ones are Tesco Finest. They take about 6 or 7 minutes to cook on the hob and give a gentler rise. To my mind, the longer the oats take to cook, the better they are.

All Bran is good as are some of the granolas (because they have added fat). I have a Dorset Cereals Honey Granola, which is lower in carbs than I’d assumed. I often mix it with All Bran or Bran Flakes (weigh both cereals and stick to the same weights each day).


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## Deleted member 33898 (Aug 30, 2022)

nonethewiser said:


> Big oats lover here, brand been buying for last 2 years is Quakers Ultimare Oats, they are ultra thick & taste delicious, have 60g portion for brekkie most mornings without going into double figures.


Just googled, they look good. Do you have them with anything else ?


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## Deleted member 33898 (Aug 30, 2022)

Inka said:


> I often have a sourdough sandwich for lunch @phil90 Rye bread is good too. Again, a case of experimenting. I tend to buy the same two or three breads. Then I add fruit, yoghurt or whatever for after my sandwich. Sometimes I have a salad and bread alongside. I pretty much have some variation of that most days. I then know how much insulin to have and it takes some of the stress and thinking away.
> 
> The oats I use when I can’t find ‘proper’ ones are Tesco Finest. They take about 6 or 7 minutes to cook on the hob and give a gentler rise. To my mind, the longer the oats take to cook, the better they are.
> 
> All Bran is good as are some of the granolas (because they have added fat). I have a Dorset Cereals Honey Granola, which is lower in carbs than I’d assumed. I often mix it with All Bran or Bran Flakes (weigh both cereals and stick to the same weights each day).


I gave wholemeal sourdough and rye bread a go for a while and seemed to spike higher with these then wholemeal granary. Might be bread is out for me completely. Ive been going between granary and wholemeal seeded lately. Have some sort of meat with it , fruit , nuts and a protein bar depending on how much is in the meat. Though I really need to cut protein bars out of my diet. 

I'm using flahavans rolled oats at the moment. Generally for making overnight oats ( chia seeds, peanut butter and raspberries) have to say I don't like it and was only used as a way of having something to bring with me to work when I start extra early.  Would be great to find an on the go blood friendly breakfast. 

All bran is quite nice. Haven't had that for a while. I have tried granola with soya yogurt a few times which isn't too bad. Do you use cow's milk with breakfast? Im not sure how much difference there is except the carbs, from what I've read it's quite slow digesting.


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## Leadinglights (Aug 30, 2022)

The protein bars I have are only about 6g carb per bar, Morrisons or Aldi. Or Nature Valley at 10g.


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## 42istheanswer (Aug 30, 2022)

phil90 said:


> I gave wholemeal sourdough and rye bread a go for a while and seemed to spike higher with these then wholemeal granary. Might be bread is out for me completely. Ive been going between granary and wholemeal seeded lately. Have some sort of meat with it , fruit , nuts and a protein bar depending on how much is in the meat. Though I really need to cut protein bars out of my diet.
> 
> I'm using flahavans rolled oats at the moment. Generally for making overnight oats ( chia seeds, peanut butter and raspberries) have to say I don't like it and was only used as a way of having something to bring with me to work when I start extra early.  Would be great to find an on the go blood friendly breakfast.
> 
> All bran is quite nice. Haven't had that for a while. I have tried granola with soya yogurt a few times which isn't too bad. Do you use cow's milk with breakfast? Im not sure how much difference there is except the carbs, from what I've read it's quite slow digesting.


Not quite plant based but I've had mini frittatas this morning at work (photo in the photos of food thread), basically vegetables in beaten egg - easy to pop in a tub and bring in. They did stick a bit to the muffin tin despite using oil, going to try using foil lined cupcake cases to make them next time not put the mix straight in the tin


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## Deleted member 33898 (Aug 30, 2022)

@Leadinglights yeah those nature valley ones are tasty. I was mostly having misfits and fulfill bars but only if they were on offer. Usually expensive.


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## Deleted member 33898 (Aug 30, 2022)

@42istheanswer they look quite nice thanks


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## Nige13 (Aug 30, 2022)

phil90 said:


> I gave wholemeal sourdough and rye bread a go for a while and seemed to spike higher with these then wholemeal granary. Might be bread is out for me completely. Ive been going between granary and wholemeal seeded lately. Have some sort of meat with it , fruit , nuts and a protein bar depending on how much is in the meat. Though I really need to cut protein bars out of my diet.
> 
> I'm using flahavans rolled oats at the moment. Generally for making overnight oats ( chia seeds, peanut butter and raspberries) have to say I don't like it and was only used as a way of having something to bring with me to work when I start extra early.  Would be great to find an on the go blood friendly breakfast.
> 
> All bran is quite nice. Haven't had that for a while. I have tried granola with soya yogurt a few times which isn't too bad. Do you use cow's milk with breakfast? Im not sure how much difference there is except the carbs, from what I've read it's quite slow digesting.


Have you not tried yoghurt and berries for brekky then may be some nuts to follow for snacking?


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## Deleted member 33898 (Aug 30, 2022)

@Nige13  I have tried no sugar soya yogurt with berries and flaked almonds. It is nice but problem is it's very low calories even with the almonds so doesn't provide me much towards my daily target. Without extra fruit it's under 300 cal  which isn't alot at all.


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## Nige13 (Aug 30, 2022)

phil90 said:


> @Nige13  I have tried no sugar soya yogurt with berries and flaked almonds. It is nice but problem is it's very low calories even with the almonds so doesn't provide me much towards my daily target. Without extra fruit it's under 300 cal  which isn't alot at all.


Why not use full fat yoghurt?


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## Bloden (Aug 30, 2022)

phil90 said:


> I gave wholemeal sourdough a go for a while and seemed to spike higher with these then wholemeal granary.


Same here @phil90 so I don't eat it.

Packaged bread is a minefield! At the moment, I'm eating a processed bread - rye and sunflower seed - which is usually okay, but sometimes spikes my BG. As for oats, sometimes they spike me, mostly they don't - so I still eat them, usually at lunchtime, with yogurt, berries, nuts n seeds. Breakfast for lunch, but that's what I fancy sometimes.

The random post-meal spikes are a pain, but I try to ignore them because there are so many invisible processes going on in the body, how can I account for all of them?


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## trophywench (Aug 30, 2022)

My old mate Jen's husband frequently eats left over dinner for breakfast so say they had spag bol last evening, and there's bol left in the saucepan (or beef bourgignon etc) which she's intending to lob in the freezer when she gets up today - there won't be as much if any since Geoff will have had it for his brekkie.


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## Deleted member 33898 (Aug 30, 2022)

@Nige13  I think the saturated fat puts me off in full fat yogurts. Maybe just haven't looked hard enough for one.

@Bloden yeah I think I just get concerned if it's consistent spikes. Which it has been going on a month plus now. Always liked oats or bran flakes in the morning, even before diabetes.  I think I tried  a rye bread but similarly it spikes me high. Frustrating when trying alternatives that are supposed to be gentler on levels. I actually tried breakfast at lunch once but it didn't work out very well.


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## nonethewiser (Aug 30, 2022)

phil90 said:


> Just googled, they look good. Do you have them with anything else ?



Do indeed, make porridge with blue top milk then add full fat greek yogurt. Also add berries, Sainsburrys this summer have had big juicy blueberries in stock, so been putting handful of them in to.

So good nutritious & hearty  breakfast, it's not just about type of oats used but bolus timing also, get both right your on to winner.


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## Nige13 (Aug 30, 2022)

phil90 said:


> @Nige13  I think the saturated fat puts me off in full fat yogurts. Maybe just haven't looked hard enough for one.
> 
> @Bloden yeah I think I just get concerned if it's consistent spikes. Which it has been going on a month plus now. Always liked oats or bran flakes in the morning, even before diabetes.  I think I tried  a rye bread but similarly it spikes me high. Frustrating when trying alternatives that are supposed to be gentler on levels. I actually tried breakfast at lunch once but it didn't work out very well.


Its not that much in fats if you're only having like 20-30grms with your fruits.


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## Inka (Aug 30, 2022)

phil90 said:


> I gave wholemeal sourdough and rye bread a go for a while and seemed to spike higher with these then wholemeal granary. Might be bread is out for me completely. Ive been going between granary and wholemeal seeded lately. Have some sort of meat with it , fruit , nuts and a protein bar depending on how much is in the meat. Though I really need to cut protein bars out of my diet.
> 
> I'm using flahavans rolled oats at the moment. Generally for making overnight oats ( chia seeds, peanut butter and raspberries) have to say I don't like it and was only used as a way of having something to bring with me to work when I start extra early.  Would be great to find an on the go blood friendly breakfast.
> 
> All bran is quite nice. Haven't had that for a while. I have tried granola with soya yogurt a few times which isn't too bad. Do you use cow's milk with breakfast? Im not sure how much difference there is except the carbs, from what I've read it's quite slow digesting.



I generally have Koko coconut milk with my cereal, but sometimes I have cow’s milk @phil90 I haven’t noticed a massive difference with the speed of rise. The Koko has less carbs so I adjust for that in my count.

If you’ve found a bread that works best for you, that’s good. We’re all individuals and have slightly different digestion. Once you’ve found a good bread, stick with it. Again, it just removes some brain-work.

Type 1 is a very different condition from Type 2. We need to ‘be our own pancreas’, while accepting we’re never going to perfectly replicate the insulin-producing function of it. We also need to eat enough to live and thrive. Sometimes it’s hard to balance those two things but I urge you to avoid restrictive diets and, most importantly, a mindset where food is the enemy. It’s not


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## Deleted member 33898 (Sep 1, 2022)

@Inka I do have non diary milk like almond and soya but just use them for protein shakes before a workout. Not heard of that Koko one.

I may ditch bread soon. Just looking for other carbs to make some lunch with.

After talking to mental health team they think once my counselling starts it should help. I just can't get out of this way of thinking with food. 2 nights ago I woke up at 4am and couldn't get back to sleep thinking about my breakfast at 7am. I have settled on two meals but I'm already questioning them. I'm still afraid to take certain add ons out like peanut butter and flaked almonds. I have to to eat the an egg between the fruit and cereal / oats because I think any other order and I'll sky rocket. A colleague was talking about old jobs a few days ago. We both used to work in a bakery. They said a place near our current work does great empire biscuits or whatever they are called now. She bought some and brought them in yesterday. I couldn't say no. Went home with it. I thought all day about eating it and having to dose for it, what is going to happen. I don't actually think I can explain in a way for someone to take me seriously. The doctor didn't see it as an issue.im just going mad


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## Inka (Sep 1, 2022)

You’re not going mad @phil90 People don’t get how stressful the whole food/insulin thing can be unless they’ve experienced it. If keeping the add-ins like the peanut butter helps you, then just carry on. Same with the egg. You can always adjust or reduce those if you choose to at a later date.

I think Type 1 is mentally wearing for many reasons. One is that you can’t control it 100% perfectly 100% of the time - but no-one is expecting you to. You have to keep reminding yourself of that. Think about your *whole* life not just the diabetes. You can’t give it this much power over you. It feeds on power and needs to be kept in its place. Don’t indulge it. Don’t let it ruin your pleasure in life any more than necessary. Eat that biscuit. Good results? Bad? It doesn’t matter that much because you can always amend things next time. It’s a learning experience. If you let fear take over, you’d never step outside your front door. I know it’s a lot easier said than done, but try to ‘talk yourself down’ from the panic/worry. Literally talk to yourself in your head. You hold the key.

You could spend your life in a private hospital on an insulin/glucose drip and get great sugars maybe, or you could completely forget about the diabetes and eat what you like and hardly test, right? Neither of those are good. The best way is the middle way. Best for health and best for emotional well-being too.


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## Drummer (Sep 1, 2022)

phil90 said:


> @Inka I do have non diary milk like almond and soya but just use them for protein shakes before a workout. Not heard of that Koko one.
> 
> I may ditch bread soon. Just looking for other carbs to make some lunch with.
> 
> After talking to mental health team they think once my counselling starts it should help. I just can't get out of this way of thinking with food. 2 nights ago I woke up at 4am and couldn't get back to sleep thinking about my breakfast at 7am. I have settled on two meals but I'm already questioning them. I'm still afraid to take certain add ons out like peanut butter and flaked almonds. I have to to eat the an egg between the fruit and cereal / oats because I think any other order and I'll sky rocket. A colleague was talking about old jobs a few days ago. We both used to work in a bakery. They said a place near our current work does great empire biscuits or whatever they are called now. She bought some and brought them in yesterday. I couldn't say no. Went home with it. I thought all day about eating it and having to dose for it, what is going to happen. I don't actually think I can explain in a way for someone to take me seriously. The doctor didn't see it as an issue.im just going mad


I understand why peanuts and almonds are not something to include in your diet - I have never liked the smell of peanut butter and almonds are bad news for the environment when grown where there is not enough water available without irrigation.
Do take care to include enough fat in your diet - although we are told not to eat them, fats are essential foods and the natural fats are the source of many essential substances, particularly hormones and the building blocks for our nervous system. I always felt dire on a high carb low fat diet, and so I have not posted here before, but you do seem to be getting into a flap about what to eat, and I must say that your colleague isn't really helping even though - as you are type 1 I'd encourage you to make insulin your tool, to cope with such incidents. Neither foods nor insulin are magic requiring rituals and rules to work, but only as long as you use your meals and medication to be in control.
My present diet makes me feel so much better than I did when eating high carb low fat, which made me so dispirited and lacklustre. I'd really not be coping if still eating like that. Hopefully the counselling will help you, but I'm concerned that the way you are eating is contributing to the problems.


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## Deleted member 33898 (Sep 2, 2022)

@Inka  thank you. I am trying to convince myself to wise up as much as possible. Interesting the last point you made. I actually said the doctor jokingly once about some similar set up but then I'd never be able to eat food. I've always thought food was one of best things in life, I don't know if its weird to think that but its probably part of the reason I've struggled soo much because food now makes me sad. Just want to get back to enjoying it again.

@Drummer if anything I probably eat too much fat. I have 90g on average everyday. and with only about 2000 calories on average day overall I'm probably having too much. But I had to make up the lack of carbs elsewhere. Of course the way I am eating is contributing to my problems. I just can't seem to break out of this cycle. I think reading too much and seeing what other people have achieved has really messed with me. I joined some low carb group just out of curiosity and all these people said levels have to be 4.9% like all the time or I can expect complications. Showing their perfect levels all day everyday. Yet I don't think I could ever go on such a diet ( for various reasons)


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## Inka (Sep 2, 2022)

@phil90 There are people with eating disorders in many of those groups. They’re best avoided. Some are also very obsessive, and a number have hypo unawareness, dangerously so.

Food can still be a pleasure - and it should be   You can still eat the things you like. Yes, you have to think more, but it does the soul good to have nice food You’ll also be pleasantly surprised by the reaction of your blood sugar to some treats. Take it slowly to start with and plan some special meals.


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## Drummer (Sep 2, 2022)

I have to rein in my natural enthusiasm on this thread @phil90 as it is so different in every possible way from my own way of eating.
I do not count anything but the grams of carb as I can and do trust my body to sort itself out as best for me. You of course have a whole other level of management to contend with. 
I eat fats from natural sources, what comes along with the meat, fish etc after it is cooked - sometimes a food will lose fat, and sometimes gain a little. I use very small amounts of butter and olive oil  and so need to put butter in the freezer to keep it fresh. 
I am not sure what you mean by people on low carb groups telling you that you need to keep your levels at 4.9% - levels of what?
I found that by eating low carb I did not need to be concerned about anything - I eat meals which have a similar impact on my blood glucose every day, and if I decided to have an ice cream, which I did during the heatwave, then I simply did not have carbs with my meal later that day. I know that you can't be so free with the timings when you eat, but if you are concerned about such things as the biscuit you took home, could you not simply substitute for carbs in your evening meal and so keep you need for insulin about the same? 
I do see from how you write that you do not feel you can be in control of your diabetes and how others react to you, even if they know your situation, yet if we'd been discussing the situation I'd have suggested either dropping the biscuit in a bin on the way home, eating it and compensating with more insulin, eating it and compensating with fewer carbs in the meal or some other ploy, because you really do have options which you can choose for yourself from your own knowledge, but your beliefs seem to be restricting you. I hope I am not too frank for your comfort. I only want to encourage you to find out that you can look after yourself better than any other person if you apply the knowledge you have gained for yourself.


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## Inka (Sep 2, 2022)

Why on earth would anyone drop the biscuit in a bin?? @phil90 ’s situation is very different from yours, Drummer, as you’re Type 2 with insulin resistance. You’ve found a diet that works for you and your weight loss/insulin resistance, but Type 1 is a very different condition. Phil is trying to put on weight not lose it, doesn’t have insulin resistance, etc.

The diet recommended for Type 1s is the same healthy diet recommended for everyone - and that includes carbs.


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## nonethewiser (Sep 2, 2022)

phil90 said:


> @Inka  thank you. I am trying to convince myself to wise up as much as possible. Interesting the last point you made. I actually said the doctor jokingly once about some similar set up but then I'd never be able to eat food. I've always thought food was one of best things in life, I don't know if its weird to think that but its probably part of the reason I've struggled soo much because food now makes me sad. Just want to get back to enjoying it again.
> 
> @Drummer if anything I probably eat too much fat. I have 90g on average everyday. and with only about 2000 calories on average day overall I'm probably having too much. But I had to make up the lack of carbs elsewhere. Of course the way I am eating is contributing to my problems. I just can't seem to break out of this cycle. I think reading too much and seeing what other people have achieved has really messed with me. I joined some low carb group just out of curiosity and all these people said levels have to be 4.9% like all the time or I can expect complications. Showing their perfect levels all day everyday. Yet I don't think I could ever go on such a diet ( for various reasons)



Food is undoubtedly one of the best things in life, diagnosis of Type 1 doesn't change that believe me, hopefully after counselling you will see that again.

One other thing, stay away from these groups that say levels need to be no more than 4.9, they are barking mad as non diabetics go much higher than that, its just scaremongering tactics to encourage you to join group, ask any diabetes specialist & they will tell you same my friend.


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## Drummer (Sep 2, 2022)

Inka said:


> Why on earth would anyone drop the biscuit in a bin?? @phil90 ’s situation is very different from yours, Drummer, as you’re Type 2 with insulin resistance. You’ve found a diet that works for you and your weight loss/insulin resistance, but Type 1 is a very different condition. Phil is trying to put on weight not lose it, doesn’t have insulin resistance, etc.
> 
> The diet recommended for Type 1s is the same healthy diet recommended for everyone - and that includes carbs.


Exactly - but phil90 was obviously having trouble deciding what to do - if you'd like to read what was posted you might see the problem.
I was not advising that was the thing to do, just that there were various options available - if you'd like to read what I wrote. I never suggested that my diet was in any way the way that phil90 ought to eat, just trying to suggest ways to deal with what is obviously a very troubling situation.
You might like to give some sort of help on the subject when it comes to being tempted to eat the biscuit but then uncertain about using insulin to correct levels should they rise to numbers phil90 might find concerning.


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## Inka (Sep 2, 2022)

I’ve read all the posts, Drummer. Type 1s can eat biscuits. I referred to that above, both directly and indirectly. Nobody who has Type 1 needs to be “tempted” to eat a biscuit because they’re a perfectly normal food. An occasional biscuit is absolutely fine. Moreover, biscuits are often recommended as a longer-acting hypo treatment, snack or pre-exercise carbs. As I and others have already mentioned the insulin a number of times, I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. Biscuits can be bolused for or not at all, depending on the circumstances.


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## travellor (Sep 2, 2022)

Inka said:


> @phil90 There are people with eating disorders in many of those groups. They’re best avoided. Some are also very obsessive, and a number have hypo unawareness, dangerously so.
> 
> Food can still be a pleasure - and it should be   You can still eat the things you like. Yes, you have to think more, but it does the soul good to have nice food You’ll also be pleasantly surprised by the reaction of your blood sugar to some treats. Take it slowly to start with and plan some special meals.



To be fair, there are some obsessive posters in this group.
Even from the title, you can normally predict how it'll go unfortunately.


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## Bloden (Sep 3, 2022)

I understood that what @Drummer was saying in her last paragraph is "Type 1ers have a variety of options".



nonethewiser said:


> hopefully after counselling you will see that again.


Take one day at a time @phil90. Anxiety around food is something I struggled with as a twenty-something. It took time to deal with everything involved, but I got there. I was very lonely back then, I don't want you to feel alone. (((hugs)))


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## travellor (Sep 3, 2022)

Bloden said:


> I understood that what @Drummer was saying in her last paragraph is "Type 1ers have a variety of options".
> 
> 
> Take one day at a time @phil90. Anxiety around food is something I struggled with as a twenty-something. It took time to deal with everything involved, but I got there. I was very lonely back then, I don't want you to feel alone. (((hugs)))



All diabetics have a variety of options.
Drummer has chosen very strict diet control, has a hba1c right on the borderline of prediabetic, and avoids any rise in BG from carbs.
That suits her.

But it doesn't suit everyone, we all, type 1's and type 2's choose a solution that suits us.
We manage it the best we can, I choose a completely different path, that suits my lifestyle.
I'm happy with a normal diet, because it suits my lifestyle.
To be honest, time in range was a term I hadn't heard before this site. 
But it's a very good measurement.
Type 2 tends to be insane fears about BG, and rises, has to be under 5, rise less than 2, check every 15 minutes....
I realised there is a wealth of experience from type 1 posters that reads over to type 2.
Possibly not so much the other way, so I don't normally post on type 1 threads, I know what I don't know.
But, as you say, it's so about one day at a time, learning, accepting the only way to learn how you work is to try it. 

So the only advice I could give to any diabetic, 1or 2, is to choose a lifestyle, and tune it until it works.
As @Inka said, "food feeds the soul".
To me, if diabetes takes that from me, it's won anyway.


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## Deleted member 33898 (Sep 3, 2022)

I've read all the posts. Thanks for the advice. Not much more to say


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## Drummer (Sep 3, 2022)

Inka said:


> I’ve read all the posts, Drummer. Type 1s can eat biscuits. I referred to that above, both directly and indirectly. Nobody who has Type 1 needs to be “tempted” to eat a biscuit because they’re a perfectly normal food. An occasional biscuit is absolutely fine. Moreover, biscuits are often recommended as a longer-acting hypo treatment, snack or pre-exercise carbs. As I and others have already mentioned the insulin a number of times, I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. Biscuits can be bolused for or not at all, depending on the circumstances.


Then please please encourage phol90 - I was not going to respond on this thread even though phil90 reported such problems as not wanting to eat or take insulin any more. Surely you read that as I did?
Please do not confuse what I write to someone in obvious distress with what I do myself - I am not a simple soul obsessed with putting the whole world on a low carb diet for their own good - and I know perfectly well that a less stressed type one can eat a biscuit and either compensate for it in their carb intake or find they have corrected a low or just do a correction, but is seems that some cannot, and so require encouragement - and in those situations I wait to see if there is encouragement, and if not I might try to help, after some thought.
Are you really just blithely assuming that someone with access to insulin would eat the biscuit?


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## Inka (Sep 3, 2022)

As I’ve responded numerous times on this thread with encouragement and understanding to Phil, I find your comment offensive, Drummer. You are transparent.


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## helli (Sep 3, 2022)

@Drummer whilst I appreciate you are trying to help, without experiencing the tribulations of managing Type 1, your low carb approach can lead to more problems.
There are some people with Type 1 who do take the low carb approach but this is not by withholding/avoiding insulin. It is by learning how to dose the correct insulin. This is a very non trivial task.

The posts from @Inka are very supportive and encouraging and from a position of understanding through personal experience of managing Tups 1 with the mental challenges that it brings.


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## Drummer (Sep 3, 2022)

helli said:


> @Drummer whilst I appreciate you are trying to help, without experiencing the tribulations of managing Type 1, your low carb approach can lead to more problems.
> There are some people with Type 1 who do take the low carb approach but this is not by withholding/avoiding insulin. It is by learning how to dose the correct insulin. This is a very non trivial task.
> 
> The posts from @Inka are very supportive and encouraging and from a position of understanding through personal experience of managing Tups 1 with the mental challenges that it brings.


I am not in any way encouraging low carb in this instance. 
Please read the post reporting not eating or using insulin for several days - that really concerned me. Please read the post about not wanting to inject a correction - if you think you can encourage the use of insulin please do so - I was trying to put forward the idea of there being options available, trying to help with the situation phil90 was in.


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