# New review of Bikman's "Why We Get Sick"



## Eddy Edson (Dec 9, 2022)

Why We Get Sick: The Hidden Epidemic at the Root of Most Chronic Disease-and How to Fight It -
					

Introduction Written by Benjamin Bikman, PhD, Why We Get Sick posits that insulin resistance—defined as a reduced response to the insulin hormone—is the root cause of most chronic diseases. The book argues that insulin resistance is a hidden epidemic: most people have it but many health...




					www.redpenreviews.org
				




"Red Pen Reviews" arranges for domain experts to review popular nutrition and health books, with the reviews in turn "peer reviewed" by other experts.   It's a useful service.

Summary:

_Why We Get Sick_ argues that insulin resistance is the root cause of most chronic diseases. To solve this problem, the book recommends lifestyle changes that are supposed to keep insulin levels low, including fasting, exercising, and restricting carbohydrates and omega-6 fats.

*Key points from our review*


The book’s argument that carbohydrates and insulin are the main causes of insulin resistance is not well supported by evidence.
9 of the 10 references we reviewed were either irrelevant, not convincing, or weakly supported the claim. 
The book’s diet and exercise recommendations will likely help people manage insulin resistance, but we have concerns about heart health since there are almost no restrictions on eating fatty animal foods.
Many people will find it hard to stick to the rigid low carbohydrate intake.
*Bottom line*

_Why We Get Sick_ delivers some helpful advice for managing insulin resistance but it’s not well supported by evidence overall.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 10, 2022)

I find it strange that the reviewers here get to remain anonymous..

We can't see what their biases might be and I'm pretty sure they are far from "unbiased" looking at who started the red pen review site in the first place.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 10, 2022)

A more detailed reading showed the reviewer as Shaun Ward









						Our Team • My Nutrition Science
					

Learn more about the qualifications and backgrounds of our expert authors in nutrition science here. Contact information for each author is also provided.




					mynutritionscience.com
				




The guy who loves vegan diets....


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## travellor (Dec 10, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> I find it strange that the reviewers here get to remain anonymous..
> 
> We can't see what their biases might be and I'm pretty sure they are far from "unbiased" looking at who started the red pen review site in the first place.



It literally says who reviewed it in the introduction.


"Review posted December 9, 2022

Primary reviewer: Shaun Ward

Peer reviewer: Morgan Pfiffner"


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## bulkbiker (Dec 10, 2022)

travellor said:


> It literally says who reviewed it in the introduction.
> 
> 
> "Review posted December 9, 2022
> ...


If only you'd read my second post...


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## travellor (Dec 10, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> If only you'd read my second post...



So you admit you didn't read the review before posting then?
Still, it's clear in the end, peer reviewed as well.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 10, 2022)

travellor said:


> So you admit you didn't read the review before posting then?
> Still, it's clear in the end, peer reviewed as well.


No I simply missed the names of the reviewers to the side of the piece I read.. possibly because I was reading the piece which would normally have the reviewers name at the start or the end not to one side. 

Were it only possible to be as perfect as you Dougie.. 

By the way I prefer Ben's qualifications over Shaun's anyday...


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## travellor (Dec 10, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> No I simply missed the names of the reviewers to the side of the piece I read.. possibly because I was reading the piece which would normally have the reviewers name at the start or the end not to one side.
> 
> Were it only possible to be as perfect as you Dougie..
> 
> By the way I prefer Ben's qualifications over Shaun's anyday...



"Dougie"?
Only one person ever shortened my username to that.

You're that bloke, can't remember who, that was thrown out of the red forum, came back as "Bigbird" got thrown out again when you had a fall out again?
Didn't you set up your own forum?


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## travellor (Dec 10, 2022)

Remembered!
Eddie.
How are you going, I see they haven't rumbled you yet on there either, even though it's the same MO, now you've tipped me off, I thought I recognised the style.
Alternative user profile, still using the BB, Bigbird/Bulkbiker.
Still female?
Scary results, and still winding up members on there as well.

At least hopefully the weight gain and the cholesterol are the same as the other posts.


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## Amity Island (Dec 10, 2022)

Eddy Edson said:


> Why We Get Sick: The Hidden Epidemic at the Root of Most Chronic Disease-and How to Fight It -
> 
> 
> Introduction Written by Benjamin Bikman, PhD, Why We Get Sick posits that insulin resistance—defined as a reduced response to the insulin hormone—is the root cause of most chronic diseases. The book argues that insulin resistance is a hidden epidemic: most people have it but many health...
> ...


I'm not a fan of the current "misinformation" trend. Essentially, they crush opinion. If they are so clever and worldly wise, let them write their own perfect and definitive book.


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## harbottle (Dec 10, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> I find it strange that the reviewers here get to remain anonymous..
> 
> We can't see what their biases might be and I'm pretty sure they are far from "unbiased" looking at who started the red pen review site in the first place.



I didn't see much bias. The book makes some claims and the reviewers point out that the evidence is weak in some cases or totally misleading and provide references to relevant research.

Although I suppose you'll dismiss all that as biased as well.


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## harbottle (Dec 10, 2022)

Amity Island said:


> I'm not a fan of the current "misinformation" trend. Essentially, they crush opinion. If they are so clever and worldly wise, let them write their own perfect and definitive book.



But you're okay with people publishing books full of misinformation?


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## Eddy Edson (Dec 10, 2022)

Anyway, at least Shaun Ward's review does a reasonable job of highlighting the evidence for why most experts think that Bikman is full of it. Obviously up to the individual whether or not they want to actually engage with the evidence.

If anybody does want to engage with Ward on the review, he seems pretty responsive on the relevant twitter thread:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601257391378829312
For those unsure which side to believe, ChatGPT's carefully tuned bothsides-ism will do little to help, unfortunately .... 

*Me: Write a story about a debate between Ben Bikman and Kevin D. Hall concerning the role of insulin resistance in obesity*
_
ChatGPT:
Ben Bikman and Kevin D. Hall were two leading experts in the field of obesity and metabolism. They had been invited to participate in a heated debate on the topic of insulin resistance and its role in the development of obesity.
As the debate began, Ben Bikman took the stage first. He argued that insulin resistance was a key driver of obesity, and that this condition arose when the body became resistant to the effects of insulin. This resistance, he explained, resulted in the body's inability to effectively use glucose, leading to increased fat storage and weight gain.
Kevin D. Hall, on the other hand, took a different stance. He argued that while insulin resistance may be a contributing factor to obesity, it was not the primary cause. Instead, he argued that excessive calorie intake and a sedentary lifestyle were the main drivers of obesity.
The two experts engaged in a lively debate, each presenting evidence and data to support their positions. Ben Bikman cited numerous studies showing the link between insulin resistance and obesity, while Kevin D. Hall pointed to research indicating that changes in diet and physical activity were more effective at preventing and reversing obesity than interventions aimed at improving insulin sensitivity.
As the debate came to a close, the audience was left to decide for themselves which expert had presented the most compelling case. Some were swayed by Ben Bikman's argument, while others found Kevin D. Hall's perspective more convincing. Ultimately, the debate shed light on the complex and multifaceted nature of obesity, and the ongoing search for effective solutions to this global health crisis._


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## bulkbiker (Dec 10, 2022)

Eddy Edson said:


> why most experts think that Bikman is full of it.


"Most" experts?  Such as?  
Shaun is no expert by the way...


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## bulkbiker (Dec 10, 2022)

harbottle said:


> I didn't see much bias. The book makes some claims and the reviewers point out that the evidence is weak in some cases or totally misleading and provide references to relevant research.
> 
> Although I suppose you'll dismiss all that as biased as well.


It's in the field of human nutrition.. there are few if any definites.. 
However Bikman is doing actual research into the role of insulin.. the reviewers are not.
I know who my money would back...


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## bulkbiker (Dec 10, 2022)

harbottle said:


> But you're okay with people publishing books full of misinformation?


Misinformation such as?

Red Pen reviews give a vegan biased book 84%  
The author Simon Hill couldn't answer my simple question re the Harvard Food Frequency Questionnaire.. how often each year do you eat "2 slices of tomato".


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## Amity Island (Dec 11, 2022)

harbottle said:


> But you're okay with people publishing books full of misinformation?


There is a difference between opinion, information and misinformation.

If someone is knowingly and intentionally trying to mislead or deceive then yes, that should be seen as misinformation, but if someone is providing information or opinion with the right intention of helping or trying to get it right, I don't think they deserve to have their opinions/work/reputation crushed. After all, why do so many seek a second opinion if there are definitive answers?

The reviewers make it quite clear in their methods, that you shouldn't take their reviews and opinions as gospel nor that science is fixed in stone.

How would you describe telling people they have covid19 from just a positive sarscov2 test (without any presenting symptoms to back this up)? Is that honest and accurate or misinformation?


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## Eddy Edson (Dec 11, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> "Most" experts?  Such as?
> Shaun is no expert by the way...


Well, as one example, no doubt most of the speakers at the fantastic Royal Society casuses of obesity symposium back in October: https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/board...ity-theories-conjectures-and-evidence.102668/

Given that carbs-as-causal was notably absent from any of the lectures except, of course, for Ludwig's.

And of course everybody who thinks the EBM is a better model than the CIM, as presented here: https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/115/5/1243/6522166  Which I would bet 20c includes the great majority of people in the field with any standing.

(I confess to not having counted them, but the EBM is certainly "dominant", as Ludwig et al themselves state in the review piece to which this was a response.)

Shaun Ward obviously isn't a heavyweight but he knows the evidence and he's quite capable of articulating it.

EDIT: And just to forestall a likely rhetorical move: Yes the EBM being the dominant model hasn't prevented the rise in obesity. But on the one hand, the EBM isn't a dietary guideline. 

And on the other hand, while the various national standard dietary guidelines can be seen as consistent with the EBM, hardly anybody actually follows them.  Deidre Tobias had some commentary on this today: 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601583952095240192


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## bulkbiker (Dec 11, 2022)

Ah the dear old 'Energy Balance Model' where 2,000 "calories of doughnuts" is the same as 2,000 calories of sirloin steak...

They seriously had a conference about that? How very 20th century of them.

So we should all simply eat less and move more and weight loss will magically follow... because nobody has ever tried that one before with extremely limited success.....


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## Eddy Edson (Dec 11, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> Ah the dear old 'Energy Balance Model' where 2,000 "calories of doughnuts" is the same as 2,000 calories of sirloin steak...
> 
> They seriously had a conference about that? How very 20th century of them.
> 
> So we should all simply eat less and move more and weight loss will magically follow... because nobody has ever tried that one before with extremely limited success.....


That's nowhere close to being a good characterisation of the EBM. You could check tge Hall et al piece I linked if you wanted to see why.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 11, 2022)

Eddy Edson said:


> That's nowhere close to being a good characterisation of the EBM. You could check tge Hall et al piece I linked if you wanted to see why.


" The worldwide obesity epidemic has been attributed in large part to shifting toward industrialized Western diets (88, 89), characterized by refined grains, processed oils, sugar-sweetened beverages, animal products, and low intakes of nonstarchy vegetables and whole grains"

Shifting towards "animal products is a product of the industrialised Western Diet"?

That, even you must agree, is pure nonsense.

Animal products (i.e. meat) has been part of the human diet for millennia.


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## Eddy Edson (Dec 11, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> " The worldwide obesity epidemic has been attributed in large part to shifting toward industrialized Western diets (88, 89), characterized by refined grains, processed oils, sugar-sweetened beverages, animal products, and low intakes of nonstarchy vegetables and whole grains"
> 
> Shifting towards "animal products is a product of the industrialised Western Diet"?
> 
> ...


Such a minor point, but anyway if you go to the cited references you will see discussions of the big increase in meat, egg and dairy production in LMI countries as they increasingly adopt a Westernized diet.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 11, 2022)

Eddy Edson said:


> Such a minor point, but anyway if you go to the cited references you will see discussions of the big increase in meat, egg and dairy production in LMI countries as they increasingly adopt a Westernized diet.


It's a nonsensical statement (as you know really ) but simply refuse to admit it. 
Mankind only got to become mankind due to animal based food.. otherwise we'd still be sitting the the forest throwing poo at each other.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 11, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> It's a nonsensical statement (as you know really ) but simply refuse to admit it.
> Mankind only got to become mankind due to animal based food.. otherwise we'd still be sitting the the forest throwing poo at each other.


But we can clearly see why you have to say it...

" Eating: Mainly plants with lots of nuts & seeds."


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## Eddy Edson (Dec 11, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> But we can clearly see why you have to say it...
> 
> " Eating: Mainly plants with lots of nuts & seeds."


Hilarious!


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## bulkbiker (Dec 11, 2022)

travellor said:


> "Dougie"?
> Only one person ever shortened my username to that.
> 
> You're that bloke, can't remember who, that was thrown out of the red forum, came back as "Bigbird" got thrown out again when you had a fall out again?
> Didn't you set up your own forum?


Wrong on all counts but thanks for confirming you are precisely who I thought you were...


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## travellor (Dec 12, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> Wrong on all counts but thanks for confirming you are precisely who I thought you were...



Eddie, it's never been hidden.
Yes, indeed, it's been ten years since you were adamant that only saturated fats were healthy, and low calorie yoyo diets could never work.

However, here I am, still avoiding the unhealthy fats, still non diabetic, still with normal cholesterol levels.

And I see you joined this form four years ago, but never seemed to have posted until now?

Still, you do seem to be living proof that a high fat keto diet put on two and a half stone on you in lockdown, and have chesterol levels that would scare most people.

An interesting comparison wouldn't you say?


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## bulkbiker (Dec 12, 2022)

travellor said:


> Eddie, it's never been hidden.


Except I'm not who you think I am


travellor said:


> it's been ten years since you were adamant that only saturated fats were healthy, and low calorie yoyo diets could never work.


I was only diagnosed in 2015 so.... 


travellor said:


> the unhealthy fats, still non diabetic, still with normal cholesterol levels.


Still taking the statins too I guess?


travellor said:


> high fat keto diet put on two and a half stone on you in lockdown


Assuming that my diet didn't slip a bit ... 


travellor said:


> have chesterol levels that would scare most people.


Very chesty levels indeed .. and they only "scare" those who are unaware..


travellor said:


> An interesting comparison wouldn't you say


Well thanks for the warm welcome.. you and your cohorts have been nothing if not impolite.. 


travellor said:


> I see you joined this form four years ago, but never seemed to have posted until now


Yep I was attracted to this forum by some interesting postings so I decided to stay and join in.

Still not Eddy and never have been.

Big hugs and complements of the season.
X


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## mikeyB (Dec 12, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> That, even you must agree, is pure nonsense.
> 
> Animal products (i.e. meat) has been part of the human diet for millennia.


I agree that animal products have been part of the human diet for millennia. In most of that millennia the average human could expect to live to 30 years. And that persisted for most folk till the 19th century, whether or not they were eating meat. Only the rich lived longer - Henry  VIII died at the grand old age of 56.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 12, 2022)

mikeyB said:


> the average human could expect to live to 30 years.


I hope that you know that figure arose from high levels of infant mortality as well as the lack of treatment for almost all diseases and had zero to do with diet.
In societies where meat consumption was high there appears to have been little to no evidence of T2 and heart disease so....


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## Robin (Dec 12, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> I hope that you know that figure arose from high levels of infant mortality as well as the lack of treatment for almost all diseases and had zero to do with diet.
> In societies where meat consumption was high there appears to have been little to no evidence of T2 and heart disease so....


…so, people died of something else before they had a chance to develop Type 2 or heart disease. So whether they ate large quantities of meat or not has no relevance to todays health problems.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 12, 2022)

Robin said:


> …so, people died of something else before they had a chance to develop Type 2 or heart disease. So whether they ate large quantities of meat or not has no relevance to todays health problems.


And todays health problems are nothing to do with whether they eat meat or not either. 
It's down to eating other things like highly processed food, toxic seed oils and the general junk that makes up a large part of many people's diets.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 12, 2022)

Robin said:


> …so, people died of something else before they had a chance to develop Type 2 or heart disease. So whether they ate large quantities of meat or not has no relevance to todays health problems.


In fact once they had made it past their 30's they often lived well into old age (without heart disease or T2 diabetes).


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## mikeyB (Dec 12, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> I hope that you know that figure arose from high levels of infant mortality as well as the lack of treatment for almost all diseases and had zero to do with diet.
> In societies where meat consumption was high there appears to have been little to no evidence of T2 and heart disease so....


That figure of 30 years applies to those who survived into adulthood, and has nothing to do with infant mortality.


Robin said:


> …so, people died of something else before they had a chance to develop Type 2 or heart disease. So whether they ate large quantities of meat or not has no relevance to todays health problems.


Indeed. I agree with you, but I was simply using that to demolish the idea that eating meat has been going on for millennia, and done no harm.It's simply irrelevant  to other conditions that used to knock people off.


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## Robin (Dec 12, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> And todays health problems are nothing to do with whether they eat meat or not either.
> It's down to eating other things like highly processed food, toxic seed oils and the general junk that makes up a large part of many people's diets.


I don’t expect any of them were overwieight, either.


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## mikeyB (Dec 12, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> In fact once they had made it past their 30's they often lived well into old age (without heart disease or T2 diabetes).


Oh aye? That's a fact is it? So why is the average down to 30 then?


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## bulkbiker (Dec 12, 2022)

mikeyB said:


> Oh aye? That's a fact is it? So why is the average down to 30 then?


Err infant mortality..?


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## bulkbiker (Dec 12, 2022)

Robin said:


> I don’t expect any of them were overwieight, either.


Probably not.. hard to tell from the archaeological record though.


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## nonethewiser (Dec 12, 2022)

mikeyB said:


> Oh aye? That's a fact is it? So why is the average down to 30 then?



Don't think you'll have any luck changing his/her mindset.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 12, 2022)

nonethewiser said:


> Don't think you'll have any luck changing his/her mindset.


Because as someone with a degree in archaeology I might know just a little more about it, maybe?


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## nonethewiser (Dec 12, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> Because as someone with a degree in archaeology I might know just a little more about it, maybe?



If you say so mate.


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## travellor (Dec 12, 2022)

nonethewiser said:


> Don't think you'll have any luck changing his/her mindset.



Not with that amazing fail to understand.
Obviously @bulkbiker imagines the "average age" was taken from the register of births and deaths, no doubt kept since the history of mankind.

It'll be an interesting post coming when he understands (or if) the reality is it's the average age of adult skeletons found at the time.
And the average age of mature adults living it up on meat wasn't a good old age at all.


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## travellor (Dec 12, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> Because as someone with a degree in archaeology I might know just a little more about it, maybe?



You must have missed that day then Eddie


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## AndBreathe (Dec 12, 2022)

nonethewiser said:


> Don't think you'll have any luck changing his/her mindset.


I thought the idea of this statement was to remind us all we don't need to change anyone's mindset unless they want to do so.  Yes, it talks about specifically diabetes, so maybe anything else is fair game?


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## nonethewiser (Dec 12, 2022)

AndBreathe said:


> I thought the idea of this statement was to remind us all we don't need to change anyone's mindset unless they want to do so.  Yes, it talks about specifically diabetes, so maybe anything else is fair game?
> 
> View attachment 23287



Got no idea what your on about, but sometimes in life you have to hold your hands up & admit your wrong when facts are laid before you, there's no shame doing so.


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## AndBreathe (Dec 12, 2022)

nonethewiser said:


> Got no idea what your on about, but sometimes in life you have to hold your hands up & admit your wrong when facts are laid before you, there's no shame doing so.


Agreed


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## bulkbiker (Dec 12, 2022)

Amity Island said:


> Hi  @bulkbiker
> 
> The thread has got really fragmented and I can't make any sense of it. Would you be able to succinctly summarise your point?
> 
> Thanks.


It started off with a pointedly biased review of Prof Ben Bikman's book by someone unqualified to make the claims that they did.

A claim was then made that meat was recently introduced into the "Industrialised Western Diet" which is patent nonsense. But was used as some kind of evidence.

I then claimed that as man had eaten meat for millennia to blame it in any part for recent epidemics in obesity and T2 is ridiculous.  The then usual idiotic point about the lifespan of ancient humans being very short was then claimed as some kind of "gotcha" ignoring the minor point that infant mortality was very high and there was no medicine for anything. 

Then the usual suspects here decided to pile in with more nonsense and I gave up. 

That just about sums it up from my perspective.

It seems that certain members here have zero respect for the opinions of others when they differ from their own and will brook no argument but instead indulge themselves with stupid and childish retorts.


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## Eddy Edson (Dec 13, 2022)

Bikman is one of the promoters of the omega-6-is-evil tropes infesting the Internet. 

Here's a new piece with Dr Kevin Maky, president of the American National Lipid Association taking about seed oils and heart risk: 






(Gil Carvalho does a good job of getting top scientists on his YouTube pieces. )


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## bulkbiker (Dec 13, 2022)

Eddy Edson said:


> Bikman is one of the promoters of the omega-6-is-evil tropes infesting the Internet.
> 
> Here's a new piece with Dr Kevin Maky, president of the American National Lipid Association taking about seed oils and heart risk:
> 
> ...


Another "unbiased" vegan I guess?


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## harbottle (Dec 13, 2022)

I guess a biased Carnivore wouldn’t bother watching it.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 13, 2022)

harbottle said:


> I guess a biased Carnivore wouldn’t bother watching it.


I don't have heart disease and don't consume seed oils so why bother.. it's simply not relevant to me and I have better things to do.


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