# Does Matt Hancock tell lies?



## mikeyB (Jun 23, 2021)

"We never had a national shortage of PPE". That is what he said to the Commons Health Select Committee on the 10th of June.

"In March (2020) the NHS experienced severe shortages of PPE..." That's what Hancock's department said last year in contract award documents worth billions of pounds, justifying lack of controls or competition.

Thanks to Private Eye for noticing that little fib.

I'm no longer astonished by this government's production of totally gratuitous lies, to be honest. It's par for the course, as the EU and Northern Irelans are disovering.


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## Northerner (Jun 23, 2021)

They are rewriting history with each passing day  What about the 'protective shield' put around care homes? Over 40,000 deaths, imagine if they'd done nothing? I noticed the little subtle mistruth the other day when he said that 'only 1.8% of infections in care homes came from discharged patients, the rest came from the community' - erm, they weren't testing people in the beginning so they couldn't know where the infections were coming from  The 'protective shield' didn't extend to giving care home staff proper PPE  

What is really shocking is that the fact we have a government that is led by a proven liar, but somehow this is 'priced in', the public (or a proportion of it, at least) accept it and it is being normalised


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## Lucy Honeychurch (Jun 23, 2021)

More like does he ever tell the truth...


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## Vonny (Jun 23, 2021)

Of course he lies. Don't they all?


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## trophywench (Jun 23, 2021)

Vonny said:


> Of course he lies. Don't they all?


 And of course we can all quite easily see when they lie, because their lips move and speak words.


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## Lisa66 (Jun 24, 2021)

I heard John Bercow say at the weekend...

Re Matt Hancock “If I could buy him at my valuation of him and sell him at his valuation of himself, I’d make a healthy profit “

Re Boris Johnson “on a nodding acquaintance with the truth in a leap year”

(Wording may not be perfect)


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## Northerner (Jun 24, 2021)

Amity Island said:


> Question is why? Why do people lie? and why should they need to lie when in a transparent governement?


This government has done everything it can to hide from the public - and Parliament. They lie when they get asked difficult questions. Some of them do it because they think they are being clever at dodging simple questions, others because they are making things up because they are unable to give the actual answers. They hang on to information that should be in the public domain because it might make them look bad - remember the Russia report, languishing in a cupboard somewhere because the PM wouldn't appoint a chairmen to the committee? All the secrecy around procurement?


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## BlueArmy (Jun 24, 2021)

I guess the only saving grace is that his lies are more subtle and less frequent than Trump, by a nats whisker.

They lie, because I think they are trying to do right and get crucified by the press whatever the outcome. Personally, I wish our governing body would show some balls and make the right decisions at the right time, not the ones the press support or social media warriors drive with their own polarising agenda.


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## BlueArmy (Jun 24, 2021)

Unless you hold truths about our national security or anything else covered by the official secrets act.

edit @Amity Island  - Totally agree with you.


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## Docb (Jun 24, 2021)

My way of looking at it is to accept that what they come out with is a truth, but it is such a tiny part of the overall picture that it is not worth listening to.  It is the unwillingness to engage in discussion about the bigger picture I find most depressing and not what I want to see in a government. To me that level of intellectual dishonesty is worse than telling outright lies.

If you want to see it in action, check out yesterdays PMQ's.


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## BlueArmy (Jun 24, 2021)

And all the time it's a game of smoke and mirrors. What I would like to see them doing is unlocking the country, repairing the relationship and reinstating trust in the UK and it's government into the disenfranchised population of Scotland who continue to vote for the SNP, fix up our issues with the EU and get trade going again and above all, stop picking fights with Russia we can't afford to engage in.

I don't see why we need to continue to stick our head above the parapit and feel like we have to be a global leader all the time when we have better things to worry about. I'd prefer to see us act more like Japan, just quietly getting on with it and doing very well for themselves.


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## mikeyB (Jun 24, 2021)

It’s not just Scotland who are disenfranchised by this government. Wales, too, has voted consistently for Labour ( though they did vote for Brexit) and Northern Ireland, where there is a huge democratic deficit. They voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU, but the power sharing DUP ignore their own voters, and want the hardest Brexit possible.

England has been playing far above its weight for decades. We have nuclear weapons - all stored as far as away from “civilisation” as possible at Faslane. Which is less than thirty miles from Scotland’s most populous area. That, and that alone is why Boris wants to refuse a referendum. As soon as Scotland is independent, he’ll need somewhere else to put them.


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## pm133 (Jun 24, 2021)

Amity Island said:


> Question is why? Why do people lie? and why should they need to lie when in a transparent government?



Politicians lie for various reasons.
There's the obvious thing about not wanting to be seen to be wrong for fear of being voted out but there's more to it than that.

Our UK political climate doesn't allow for compromise or cross-party team working. It's binary - Labour or Tories. The climate is aggressive and confrontational and I've never come across a situation in my life where that didn't result in ultra-aggressive defensiveness in the other person/group.
The press attack constantly.
The public are cynical and never give the benefit of the doubt.

So we get what we have now.
It can't be any other way.

Scotland doesn't have all the answers but compare FM questions with PM questions and you'll see a stark difference. Nobody shouts and interrupts up here during debates. Westminster is a bear pit.

The UK would benefit from hung parliaments with minority rule (without coalitions) forcing parties to work together. With majorities, you get one side steam-rolling over the wishes of more than half (I think) the population of the country.
In Scotland we have a bit more balance in that regard with only 1 full majority parliament in history and when that happened some really bad legislation was passed which had to be repealed.


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## pm133 (Jun 24, 2021)

Amity Island said:


> *Unless you hold truths about our national security or anything else covered by the official secrets act.


I think the only problem with that is that this can be and probably is routinely abused to cover all sorts of things which are merely embarassing for ministers rather than genuine national security considerations.


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## pm133 (Jun 24, 2021)

BlueArmy said:


> And all the time it's a game of smoke and mirrors. What I would like to see them doing is unlocking the country, repairing the relationship and reinstating trust in the UK and it's government into the disenfranchised population of Scotland who continue to vote for the SNP,



I can't see them ever winning the battle in Scotland. They should have honoured Sturgeon's mandate to hold IndyRef2 at a time of her choosing and failing to do so means they have probably won the battle in the short term but lost the entire independence war in the medium to long term. That lack of honour won't easily be forgotten. Large swathes of the country is still furiously angry at Thatcher up here. Smoe of those angry people weren't even born when she left power. That gives you an idea of how toxic the Tories are despite being the second biggest party.

The disenfranchisment of Scots is now so ingrained that it would take the SNP to do something genuinely disastrous for their grip to be released.
It took Scots about 50-odd years to ditch Labour.

The case for independence has strengthened to the point now where things are at a tipping point and I genuinely can't see it going any other way than full independence.

Interestingly, if we had a first past the post parliament up here, there would be almost no other MSPs except those from the SNP. Only about 4 or 5 non-SNP MSPs were elected by winning their consituency vote. The rest are in from the top-up list. That's worth a moment's consideration.
Quite some change from just over 10 years ago when much of Scotland (and most of the entire central belt) was red.


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## Abi (Jun 24, 2021)

Does Matt Hancock tell lies?..
Is the Pope Catholic?
and do bears defaecate in woods?
C'mon folks, he's a politician


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## mikeyB (Jun 25, 2021)

Politicians are servants of the people, their constituents. They are voted in to the people. They should have our trust. Politicians who lie are not to be trusted. Hancock is a liar. Boris is a liar. Pritti Patel is a liar.

I agree with @pm133, the people of Scotland can see that the Tories are a bunch of liars, which is why only one Tory MSP was elected in the last election. The rest were appointed from the approved list, depending on the proportion of total votes cast. Labour managed similarly, they are a complete busted flush in Scotland. I agree with the point that in a first past the post system the Scottish Parliament would look like Iran’s, or Russia’s in that it would be one party state. The de’Hondt system of voting was introduced specifically so that one party could not dominate. Well, that didn’t work.

The mystery is why the people of England can’t see through what is happening to the country. The NHS is on its knees, food kitchens abound, poverty is on the increase while the rich get richer, the government only gives contracts to Tory Party donors. Wages haven’t increased for years. Poverty is reaching Victorian levels.

Is this the sort of country you want to live in? The Scots don’t. The Welsh don’t. Europeans don’t. And certainly the Irish don’t. Boris Johnson’s legacy in history will be the man who broke up the UK. All he will be left with is Little England, a country of power cuts, unable to afford the excess of power generated by Scottish wind and water, and the lie of England subsidising Scotland will be exposed - it’s the other way round.

And above all, the people of Wales and Scotland trust their politicians. And as folk leave England to find somewhere better to live, where social harmony is the ideal sought,  someone will have to stay behind to turn out the lights. If they are still working.

Sorry for the rant, but I cannot understand why folk just say of course politicians lie. It doesn’t have to be that way, except in England it seems.


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## Northerner (Jun 25, 2021)

mikeyB said:


> The mystery is why the people of England can’t see through what is happening to the country. The NHS is on its knees, food kitchens abound, poverty is on the increase while the rich get richer, the government only gives contracts to Tory Party donors. Wages haven’t increased for years. Poverty is reaching Victorian levels.


Well, there was a man with a lifelong record of integrity and honesty, who fought passionately on all these issues. Sadly, he was terminally undermined by a vicious campaign against him from all sections of the media, and his own parliamentary party. Take away that overwhelming message and maybe he would have won in 2017 due to the undoubted popularity of his policy platform which sought to turn the tables on the established top-down order and support ordinary people, whatever their situation. Life would now be very different, but if you ask people they will often say I wouldn't vote for that Corbyn, without having a clue why or how they have been duped into feeling that way


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## BlueArmy (Jun 25, 2021)

I can tell you why - because his far left communist views would of destroyed our country, including stupid ideas to re-nationalise entire industries. Would of cost more than COVID.

Mikey, I don't agree with some of your points, a significant level of subsidy from England flows to Scotland and Wales and will increase over time as the scottish oil and gas industry dies. Most of the nuclear power capability and intercontinental connectors with the EU are based in England and the city of London and our financial sector generates circa 30% of the wealth of the UK. The north sea industry the Scottish believe is a cash cow has already been well and truly milked, on the whole the decommissioning of it present a significant cost to the UK in the years ahead. At best, it's probably break even at the moment bearing in mind our climate change targets. Beyond that, more environmentally sustainable fuel sources such as methane from shale gas which can be converted into hydrogen, through electrolysis in a sustainable way to keep the planes in the sky, England has a far larger reserve of this than Scotland, Wales or Ireland.

England has 80% of the UK population and therefore taxpayers, this is where a significant amount of government wealth is coming from.

The over aching theme should be the same over arching theme that should of kept us in the EU. In a global world, were better off together than apart. It's a shame Nicola S is in the political party she is. I think she is the best politician in the UK, and the whole country would benefit from her being prime minister.

Anyway, i am going to bow out of this conversation at this point, were in dangerous territory discussing politics! .......all politicians lie the only thing that changes is the severity from manipulating data to tell the story they want to actual mistruths.


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## Northerner (Jun 25, 2021)

BlueArmy said:


> I can tell you why - because his far left communist views would of destroyed our country, including stupid ideas to re-nationalise entire industries. Would of cost more than COVID.


I rest my case. Corbyn's proposals are commonplace in Scandinavian democracies, they were Social-Democratic not 'far left communism'. And I repeat, the policies were popular - indeed, the Tories have been forced to put many of them into practice during the pandemic, including re-nationalisation of the railways. Natural monopolies should not be in private hands. Labour, aware of the spending criticisms, produced fully-costed manifestos backed up by leading economists - at the last election the Tories barely had a manifesto to speak of, with vague promises, Johnson hiding in fridges to avoid tough questioning. And, of course, as we have seen they are happily breaking any manifesto pledge they did commit to Whilst trashing our relationship with the EU (which we still need to maintain, despite record-breaking deals with Australia) and internationally by threatening to break treaty commitments. 

Also my last word, but couldn't let you get away with that, given the topic of the thread!


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## BlueArmy (Jun 25, 2021)

Thankfully, I didn't vote for the tories in the last election, or labour. Not that it matters as I live in tory stronghold and my vote is worthless.


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## Northerner (Jun 25, 2021)

BlueArmy said:


> Thankfully, I didn't vote for the tories in the last election, or labour. Not that it matters as I live in tory stronghold and my vote is worthless.


Yeah, me too  The voting system needs changing, but of course the Tories will never do that as long as they can win a huge majority on a minority of votes


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## BlueArmy (Jun 25, 2021)

Back to the original thread - does Matt Hancock tell lies.









						PM must sack Matt Hancock after affair claims - Labour
					

The government says the health secretary did not break rules by giving Gina Coladangelo an official job.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




Not looking good for him is it.


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## mikeyB (Jun 25, 2021)

I’ve already commented on this story on the thread  @Amity Island has started. Not really relevant to whether he is a liar or not.

It’s not looking good for Johnson- if he sacks Hancock for having an affair, he’s a hypocrite, if he sacks him for having an affair with a lobbyist, he’s a hypocrite. And it brings to the fore how he allowed Hancock to actually employ a lobbyist as an aide. Hypocrite central.


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## Northerner (Jun 25, 2021)

BlueArmy said:


> Back to the original thread - does Matt Hancock tell lies.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seems he's sorry for breaking SD rules, but hard for him to escape accusations of sheer hypocrisy, given this interview


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## mikeyB (Jun 25, 2021)

As I’ve said, the affair and breaking of his own Covid rules is evident, and he should resign as Ferguson did. You can’t apologise for hypocrisy, Dominic Cummings knew that and  never did. Hypocrisy is the least of the accusations against him.

So at the risk of repeating myself, he should be questioned is how an old university “friend” and self described lobbyist can be appointed to be an aide, and who is now a non-executive board member at the Department of Health. OK, she’s only paid £15,000 for that position, but that’s more than job seekers allowance is to live on, and she’s a millionaire. Christine Hamilton made this point on Jeremy Vine’s show on Radio 2 this lunchtime. What I thought significant was all the callers after her went on about hypocrisy, as did Jeremy Vine who would describe himself as a journalist.


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## Drummer (Jun 25, 2021)

During the lockdowns the 'one law for the rich' situation has become ridiculous, with the police harassing and threatening mothers trying to buy milk at a self service kiosk on their way back from school (as reported in the Bournemouth Echo) and NHS workers protesting about their conditions being fined huge sums (for them) for breaking the rules whilst politicians and their cronies feel free to ignore them.
This area has a lot of care homes for the elderly and infirm and the staff were going home on busses white faced and red eyed, with black sacks of PPE to wash so it could be reused. 
We were inundated with visitors on several occasions and someone sent out squads to lock all the public toilets and make sure all the cafes and pubs were shut - so there was fouling everywhere and some very unhappy people. Amongst them the residents of Sandbanks, where there are some of the most expensive houses in the UK, so there might be repercussions. One can but hope.


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## BlueArmy (Jun 25, 2021)

mikeyB said:


> OK, she’s only paid £15,000 for that position, but that’s more than job seekers allowance is to live on, and she’s a millionaire.


If I got £15k for 20 hours work I’d be happy. I think it was in that ballpark - hourly rate of £1000


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## BlueArmy (Jun 25, 2021)

Drummer said:


> During the lockdowns the 'one law for the rich' situation has become ridiculous, with the police harassing and threatening mothers trying to buy milk at a self service kiosk on their way back from school (as reported in the Bournemouth Echo) and NHS workers protesting about their conditions being fined huge sums (for them) for breaking the rules whilst politicians and their cronies feel free to ignore them.


yeah its madness. My wife was threatened by a over zealous PCSO with a fine for playing football in the local park with my 2 kids, in a bubble away from anyone. Apparently she was allowed to walk with them but no ball games allowed.


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## BlueArmy (Jun 25, 2021)

anyway, hancock is on his way no doubt, Maybe the new health secretary will see fit to provide all T1’s with continuous BG monitors as per May’s aspiration a few years back


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## BlueArmy (Jun 25, 2021)

mikeyB said:


> Not really relevant to whether he is a liar or not.


think his wife would disagree


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## Amigo (Jun 25, 2021)

BlueArmy said:


> think his wife would disagree


 
Yes there’s the respective spouses whose main anger won’t be about breaches of social distancing! Somehow I imagine Cummings being the secret photographer…he’s been on a covert mission since his days were numbered.

Who’d have imagined Hancock, it’s always the quiet ones you need to watch out for


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## Eddy Edson (Jun 25, 2021)

Amigo said:


> Who’d have imagined Hancock, it’s always the quiet ones you need to watch out for


It's not his fault if women can't keep their hands off him.

Such a stud.


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## BlueArmy (Jun 25, 2021)

Amigo said:


> Yes there’s the respective spouses whose main anger won’t be about breaches of social distancing! Somehow I imagine Cummings being the secret photographer…he’s been on a covert mission since his days were numbered.
> 
> Who’d have imagined Hancock, it’s always the quiet ones you need to watch out for


Yeah I said that to my wife.

Lesson No.1 - don't mess with Cummings. 
Lesson No. 2 - don't mess with your aide, if you've messed with Cummings.


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## Vonny (Jun 25, 2021)

Northerner said:


> Well, there was a man with a lifelong record of integrity and honesty, who fought passionately on all these issues. Sadly, he was terminally undermined by a vicious campaign against him from all sections of the media, and his own parliamentary party. Take away that overwhelming message and maybe he would have won in 2017 due to the undoubted popularity of his policy platform which sought to turn the tables on the established top-down order and support ordinary people, whatever their situation. Life would now be very different, but if you ask people they will often say I wouldn't vote for that Corbyn, without having a clue why or how they have been duped into feeling that way


After a lifetime of voting Labour, when Corbyn started leading the party I actually joined and became a fully paid up member. I helped on local campaigns and became an active member. Since he has gone I'm still a member but I no longer have the enthusiasm to be active in the local community. It was his integrity and honesty that fired me up and now there doesn't seem to be any point. I realise my apathy is my own issue, but every party needs a leader who inspires. Admittedly I voted for Kier but my heart wasn't in it.


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## Northerner (Jun 25, 2021)

Vonny said:


> After a lifetime of voting Labour, when Corbyn started leading the party I actually joined and became a fully paid up member. I helped on local campaigns and became an active member. Since he has gone I'm still a member but I no longer have the enthusiasm to be active in the local community. It was his integrity and honesty that fired me up and now there doesn't seem to be any point. I realise my apathy is my own issue, but every party needs a leader who inspires. Admittedly I voted for Kier but my heart wasn't in it.


I think what galls me the most is the way that anything to do with the left is deliberately being expunged from the party, as though that was what was wrong with it, I find that personally insulting as do thousands of others who have now left the party. Over a year on from Starmer's election and I am still waiting to hear what the party now stands for, and why it feels it needs to kick its own members and activists in the teeth at every opportunity  Remember back to that 2016 'coup' where they offered precisely nothing as an alternative to the leader they wanted to get rid of - Owen Smith and Angela Eagle for goodness sake!  

Sorry, off topic, now let's get back to Hancock's lies, which now include his wife and kids, apparently


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## BlueArmy (Jun 25, 2021)

and someone else’s husband and their kids. What a mess, not quite as much of a mess as his handling of PPE mind you,


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## mikeyB (Jun 26, 2021)

All this does make me wonder why this ageing film has taken so long to hit the notice of the press. And who is the whistleblower? And now, apparently, we have a photo of the naughty pair dining in a restaurant not long after the kiss below the CCTV camera.

I have a suspicion that the families involved were well aware as to what was about to happen, the press usually give warning. So Hancock must have been distracted for a longer period.

But as Boris thinks the matter is closed and has accepted the apology, I guess that’s the end of it. He didn’t even sack Patel after she was judged to have broken the ministerial code by bullying her staff.  I doubt that the press consider the matter closed, though. They sniff a sacrificial lamb.


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## Docb (Jun 26, 2021)

Yes, @mikeyB, like you I wonder what the full story might be.  Things are never quite as simple as the press would like to make out.  

I am curious about why there will be no attempt to find who put the camera there.  The idea that somebody could record the activities in a ministers private office must raise a few eyebrows.  Did somebody put a micro camera there? Has somebody hacked into a government system? Mmmmm.....where are the conspiracy theorists.


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## Northerner (Jun 26, 2021)

Docb said:


> Yes, @mikeyB, like you I wonder what the full story might be.  Things are never quite as simple as the press would like to make out.
> 
> I am curious about why there will be no attempt to find who put the camera there.  The idea that somebody could record the activities in a ministers private office must raise a few eyebrows.  Did somebody put a micro camera there? Has somebody hacked into a government system? Mmmmm.....where are the conspiracy theorists.


The impression I have got from the various news reports is that it was a security camera - perhaps it's needed in case there is a burglary or something? Or perhaps someone breaking Covid rules?   Actually, when you think about it, and having seen the pictures, it's pretty clear that these shenanigans have been going on for some time, wquite possibly throughout the pandemic - it most certainly wasn't a one-off, but you get the impression that that is how they are trying to present it  There is no honour in this government, probably (definitely) because of the PM's own lack of morals


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## Northerner (Jun 26, 2021)

Docb said:


> I am curious about why there will be no attempt to find who put the camera there. The idea that somebody could record the activities in a ministers private office must raise a few eyebrows. Did somebody put a micro camera there? Has somebody hacked into a government system? Mmmmm.....where are the conspiracy theorists.


Discovered the reason for this, seems he has footage of them all...


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