# Hello



## lowcarbking (Feb 16, 2009)

Hello

I am a type 2 diabetic. I use no med's and hold a non diabetic HbA1c by diet alone. I hope I may be of use to fellow diabetics.

Rob


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## 1997 (Feb 16, 2009)

hi Rob, a warm welcome to you!

i'm sure you'll be a lot of use to us here. make yourself at home.


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## Corrine (Feb 17, 2009)

And a warm welcome from me too.  I am diet and exercise controlled (only diagnosed in Sept 2008) with an HbA1C of 6.1.  Any tips as to what you find works best for you would be fab!


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## Ikklemo (Feb 17, 2009)

Hi Rob and welcome

Any advice on what diet you follow would be well received.


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## coastalhobbit (Feb 18, 2009)

hi im new too, have only been diagnosed for 2 months, still waiting to see a dietican and very confused! so low carb i for one would be grateful for some tips!


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## kezza (Feb 18, 2009)

I decided to start low carb on Monday after reading some comments from another forum.  Comments I have read from others is that this aids both weight loss and helps with less fluctuations in blood sugars.  Well to early to comment on weight loss but I'am astounded on how my blood sugars have been consistant and do not have that peak after eating.  I can now go to bed with surars of 4 or 5 and wake up with them reading the same.  feel as though I have more energy as well.


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## kezza (Feb 18, 2009)

Forgot to say before.  There is a fantastic book by a Dr Bernstein that is fantastic and explains the theory behind low carbs. (He himself is Type 1).


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## C*5_Dodger (Feb 24, 2009)

lowcarbking said:


> Hello
> 
> I am a type 2 diabetic. I use no med's and hold a non diabetic HbA1c by diet alone. I hope I may be of use to fellow diabetics.
> 
> Rob


Dear lowcarbking,

Welcome, I too am a low carber. I have been trying to get Diabetes UK to at least acknowledge that they should offer a low carb diet as an alternative to their cuurent, high carb, diet. In fact I sent them a short paper "The case for a Controlled Carbohydrate Approach" and so far they have not commented. I also offered it to anyone on this forum and only 3 people asked for a copy. In short, don't hold your breath waiting for people to adopt a controlled carbohydrate approach!

Regards Dodger


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## carolyn (Feb 27, 2009)

Hi Dodger
I am interested in your low card paper can you send me one please.
________
Easy Vape Vaporizer Instructions


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## kezza (Feb 27, 2009)

Hi Dodger.

Would also love a copy.


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## bev (Feb 27, 2009)

Hi, 

Do you know if this approach would be suitable for a child? If so, could i have a copy please? Thanks. Bev


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## Jaunty (Feb 27, 2009)

*Dodger's paper on a controlled approach to carbohydrates*

Hi Dodger

I would love to receive a copy of your paper - can't understand why more haven't taken you up on your offer!

regards - Jaunty


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## Ikklemo (Feb 27, 2009)

I would also be interested in a copy of your low-carb paper.  I am surprised that there was not more interest.


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## C*5_Dodger (Feb 27, 2009)

bev said:


> Hi,
> 
> Do you know if this approach would be suitable for a child? If so, could i have a copy please? Thanks. Bev


Dear Bev,

The approach is suitable for anyone. However, it is NOT an easy option and if you do it you WILL have to reduce Alex's insulin. You really need the help of a professional with this. The paper I wrote is not a diet it is a theoretical paper to try and convince Diabetes UK that they should offer a controlled carbohydrate approach as an alternative to the high carbohydrate now pushed by them. If you still want a copy of the paper send me your E-Mail address (use a private message to me). The low carb diet I used was "Atkins", but "Protein Power" is also good - see VBH's post!.

NOTE: If anyone else would like a copy of the paper send me a private message with your E-Mail address.

Regards  Dodger


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## Lizzie (Feb 27, 2009)

bev said:


> Hi,
> 
> Do you know if this approach would be suitable for a child? If so, could i have a copy please? Thanks. Bev



It is just my opinion, but I would not put a child on a low carb diet - I think kids need energy while growing up, they need a balanced diet including all food groups. I do not think it is healthy to cut out a food group. But that is just my opinion.


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## David B (Feb 27, 2009)

think lizzie may be right there - I understood low carbs is for people who need to lose weight.


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## Northerner (Feb 27, 2009)

Lizzie said:


> It is just my opinion, but I would not put a child on a low carb diet - I think kids need energy while growing up, they need a balanced diet including all food groups. I do not think it is healthy to cut out a food group. But that is just my opinion.



I agree Lizzie, and I don't think many children would be too happy in following a restrictive diet. Apart from missing out on a variety of foods, it would also make them stand out amongst their friends.


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## C*5_Dodger (Feb 27, 2009)

Dear Lizzie
The idea that we need a balanced diet, including all food groups, is just not so:, go to: http://www.biblelife.org/stefansson1.htm. Traditional hunter gather peoples have lived for many thousands of years without carbohydrates, e.g. the Inuit. They believe that carbohydrate is animal food! The energy “currency” of all living organisms is ATP (adenosine tri-phosphate) The Krebs cycle is the key to turning food into energy. It goes through a lot of individual steps, but basically it takes in acetlyl co-A (e.g. manufactured from glucose) and oxaloacetate to form citric acid (aka citrate), which is very high in energy. The citric acid gradually loses that energy, partly as CO2 (a waste product) and partly as GTP and NADH and FADH2, which go on to produce ATP, which is used to power many of the actual operations in the body. Glucose is not the only material that can be metabolized to generate energy. Many carbohydrates can be broken down in glycolysis and enter the Krebs Cycle. Proteins can be broken down into amino acids and those can be deaminated (i.e. remove an amino group, NH2, from the amino acid) and the carbon chains fed into the Krebs Cycle. The very long carbon chains of fatty acids can be chopped into two carbon pieces by a process known as Beta Oxidation. Since the fatty acid chains can be 20 or more carbons long there is a very great deal of energy stored in fats.
Dear David B,
Whist low carbohydrate diets are used for weight-loss, it does not mean that they cannot be used for blood glucose control. I have used such a diet for 12 years and have excellent control (see my signature)
Dear Northerner,
You may well be right that a child may not take to a diet that has reduced carbohydrates, it was for that reason that I said to Bev that it is not easy. However that is not a reason for not at least giving it a go! Your point about standing out amongst their friends is valid and may be a good reason for not trying

Regards Dodger


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## bev (Feb 28, 2009)

Hi all!

Having read through all of your posts again - i think i will ask Alex's DN before changing his diet so radically.
Although it makes perfect sense to me that if you reduce the amount of carbs in your body - blood sugars naturally become more balanced.
I would be a little concerned about weight loss though as he is already very thin - and i take your point Northerner that it could possibly make him stand out as different with his friends - but there are a few in his school who are gluten free, dairy free, and various other 'different' dietary needs - they dont get any hassle so perhaps not such an issue for now. Thanks all. Bev


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## VBH (Mar 2, 2009)

Dodger,

I think the problem is that as soon as you mention "low carb" or atkins, people tend to associate it with the induction phase of atkins and being a very low carb diet.  I don't like the term "low carb" in general because of this impression it gives.

I tend to think in terms of "managed carb" instead which does not sound as restrictive to most people.  Its similar in approach but less structured in that I don't need a book to do it.  Just a meter.  What set me (and many others) off was this:
http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/joomla/jennifers-advice

Its particularly effective for T2s in that by using your meter you work out what combinations of foods you can tolerate without going too high.  All T2s can tolerate a certain amount of carbs, particularly in combination with the right levels of fats and protein at the correct time of day, based on their levels of insulin resistance during the day.

Techinically, I am a low carber but this tends to mean somewhere  wilyly varying between 60 and 140 carbs per day in various combinations.  Its not very restrictive and theres no guide book, but its all based on what works for me personally.  DM can be very individual and the way that a particular food or food combination affects one individual can be very different from the way that it affects someone else.

For T1s it can also have benefits and carb management for T1 in general is certainly advisable.  If the quantity of carbs is moderated then there is less margin for error in bolus shots.  For those on that godawful premix stuff, it can lead to a significant reduction in doses and a flatter BG curve.

Anyway, we are along similar lines.  I just find it gets a better reception generally if rather than advocating diet x specifically, one talks in terms of working out how carbs can be managed to match the individual.

Neither Atkins nor a "Jennifer-based" (for want of a better term) approach needs to be terribly restrictive and there are always alternatives to the foods which do the most damage to the BG.  Its just that preconceptions get in the way as we've seen in this thread...

1)  Low/managed carb is not just for weight loss.  Diabetes fact 101:  Carbs raise BG.  So if you control the level, type and combination of carbs you intake, you control your BG rise and insulin requirements.
2)  Managing carbs does not mean "cut out a food group".  Just controlling the "dosage".  (The argument over whether starches and carbs are necessary at all for the body to function is usually a bloody one so I am not going there   )

I'm intending no criticism with the above incidentally.  I know where those preconceptions come from and have had many of the same concerns myself in the early days.

Things are improving with the attitude towards reduced carb diets for managing DM from the official sources (ADA has made some recent changes) but its going to take a long time for it to be accepted.

For one thing it would mean the dept of health admitting that their "heart healthy" diet is not a one-size-fits-all solution (easily disproved by any T2 using a meter).

Anyway, bottom line is that whats important it what works for you and if Atkins works for you, then go for it and good luck.  Just watch out for those preconceptions getting in the way when you mention it.

Finally - Bev - I don't personally think a structured diet plan like atkins would be useful for kids.  However, a moderate level of managing carbs could help out significantly without too much impact on lifestyle.  As mentioned above I think it always needs to be tailored to the individual and I tend to think thats particularly important with respect to kids.  Get it right and carbs could be moderated without him even noticing 

p.s. If I had been practicing what I preach better recently then my A1c would be at its usual level of 5.5/5.6 instead of the 5.8 "cockup" level that I had last time


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## C*5_Dodger (Mar 2, 2009)

Dear VBH,

I in fact agree with everything you say, I just use Atkins and Protein Power as "for examples" (I did use Atkins when I first started Controlled carbing 12 years ago). As you say, at the end of the day, you need to do what works best for you. You may have noticed that I have been "peddling" a paper that I sent to Diabetes UK in an attempt to get them to offer a CONTROLLED carb approach. In it I do avoid the use of such emotive terms as "Atkins", I think you would find it interesting. Send me a private message with your E-Mail address and I'll send you a copy.

Regards  Dodger


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## VBH (Mar 2, 2009)

PM sent.  should make interesting reading, ta.


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## diagonall (Mar 3, 2009)

I have been reading this thread with a large amount of puzzlement 
Back in 1066 when I was diagnosed as a small child I was allowed carbs but a limit was put on each meal.
Now I never missed out on anything food wise as a child.
I still have an upper limit to the amount of carbs I eat in one meal.
Over 70 carbs and blood sugars go heywire 
44 years on insulin and I do not have any complications. So something must be right in this theory.
Interestingly I have all the cookery books from the BDA from years past.
And do you know what. They are all lower carb versions of what is found on the shelves in the shops now days.

It's simple logic. The more carbs the more insulin required. Which in turn leaves more room for error IE, High blood sugars or lows.
The more insulin you use the bigger the chance of getting scar tissure which also makes aborption very hit and miss. Thus you end up with unexplaind highs and lows. Which leads to uncontrolled diabetes.


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## JennyL (Mar 3, 2009)

*Managed carbs*

Hi 

Like VBH I too manage my carb intake.

It took about a month of intensive testing to alter my diet initially and then spot testing of "new" foods which I still do. I don't feel I miss out and after 7 months what I eat feels normal now - the only probs I have are meeting lunches that tend to be carbs carbs carbs.

What I am now finding with a much lower A1c is that I can introduce things that I banned at the beginning and I am finding that in some meal combinations I can eat small portions which is great eg with smoked haddock & veg I can now have a tablespoon of mash which I love but I can't eat it with anything else!

A side effect of managed carbs has been weight loss too.

I haven't used a book, don't weigh anything just use my meter to tell me what foods do to me. I did write down everything I ate in the first month with my  bg readings. I now only do so when I have a high that I am not happy with to remind myself what I ate.

I would say managed carbing is well worth it


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## ikeymo (Mar 6, 2009)

Hi everyone,

I'm new here, and this looks like a good place to start.
I'm having great success with a low carb diet too, no thanks to my medical team at all, ta very much!
Last 4 HbA1c's have been below 5% and I'm feeling good.
I'd be very interested to see your paper too, Dodger.

Cheers,

ikeymo


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## Northerner (Mar 6, 2009)

ikeymo said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm new here, and this looks like a good place to start.
> I'm having great success with a low carb diet too, no thanks to my medical team at all, ta very much!
> ...



Hi ikeymo! Goodness - below 5%? I don't think I've ever heard of an HbA1c that low! Thought I was doing well at 5.4%!


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## Steff (Mar 6, 2009)

welcome all newbies 


x


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## ikeymo (Mar 7, 2009)

Hi Northener,

Yes, last HbA1c's have been, in reverse order, 4.4, 4.9, 4.7, 4.7.
Insulin on a typcal day levemir basal, 4 units at bedtime, 4 units in the morning, Humalog 3 units at breakfast and 2.5 at lunch, Humulin 7 units at dinner.
I'm amazed at the amount of insulin some of you you guys are using! Isn't that very harmful?

ikeymo


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## aymes (Mar 7, 2009)

ikeymo said:


> I'm amazed at the amount of insulin some of you you guys are using! Isn't that very harmful?
> 
> ikeymo



It would be a lot more harmful if I wasn't using it!!


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## ikeymo (Mar 9, 2009)

Quite, aymes!

What I meant was that it seems high levels of insulin seem to be linked to all sorts of long term problems - obesity, heart disease, vascular damage, hypertension and so on. The usual complications.
I was also reading about the links between insulin levels and the rate at which we age.
All of this stuf seems to support the idea that carb restriction is the best strategy.
What do you think?

ikeymo


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## aymes (Mar 10, 2009)

ikeymo said:


> Quite, aymes!
> 
> What I meant was that it seems high levels of insulin seem to be linked to all sorts of long term problems - obesity, heart disease, vascular damage, hypertension and so on. The usual complications.
> I was also reading about the links between insulin levels and the rate at which we age.
> ...



My take on it is that carb restriction is a great strategy for those who wish to (and are disciplined enough!) use it but it's certainly not the only approach. I think we all consciously or otherwise take the decision on what 'sacrifices' (for lack of a better word) we choose to take to achieve a diabetic control and life balance. Personally, I'm unwilling to restrict myself in terms of my carb intake, and due to the level of exercise I do (running usually) it would probably be unwise,  and I have a level of control I am happy with, but of course everyone is different and carb restriction may be less of a 'sacrifice' (I need a better word!) for others than it is for me currently. I have in the past taken a low carb approach which worked fine but now I go more for low GI than low carb which I find works just as well, again a personal thing!
In terms of high levels of insulin being linked to various long term conditions, I do think I'm quite a sceptic of a lot of these studies anyway but I've never come across anything that has convinced me I need to rethink my approach yet, but of course never say never....!


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## ikeymo (Mar 10, 2009)

Hi aymes,

Yeah, it pays to be open minded I guess. Unless you're a GP that is.
I think I have a growing conviction that low carb is the way to go for me. I run and cycle long distances and am finding my stamina improving on a low carb diet.
The insulin question interests me though. I've read quite a number of different studies in different fields in which the consensus seems very strong that diseases such as CHD, Alzheimer's, cancers as well as metabolic syndrome rise in relation to insulin levels.
Since insulin levels are something I have direct control over as a type 1, it seems to me a sensible strategy for long term health.
The grub's not bad either!

ikeymo


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