# Newcastle Diet -



## Weekender

I’ve just completed Week 2 and thought I would add my experiences so far.

Background
I’m 59 and was diagnosed Type 2 three weeks ago. I was 101kg. My GP didn’t mention my blood glucose HbA1c levels, and they lost the second test results. I used my wife’s Contour monitor (she’s hypoglycaemic) and recorded my fasting blood sugars as 8 and 7.5 the first 2 days. I’d been drinking a lot of beer during lockdown and snack a lot in front of the telly.

The Newcastle Diet as it had been in the paper recently. I read the stories from people on this web site who had succeeded with it on this forum. I decided to buy Prof Roy Taylor’s new book, and downloaded info from the Newcastle Magnetic Resonance Centre website

To reduce weight by the 15kg in 8 weeks (to clear fat from my pancreas and reset my insulin responses) I started the diet of 800 calories from 3 meal replacement shakes and soups (I’m using Optifast and Exante) + veg. To ‘turbo charge’ it I’m limiting my intake to between 12:00pm to 6pm and jogging and swimming in morning.

Observations
The first three days were challenging, I felt hungry and unsure if I could manage it.
After this though, my body had got used to using my fat stores for energy, and I don’t feel hungry at all hungry in the morning and can exercise. I feel peckish after I have my first meal replacement shakes and soups.
I feel quite hungry and tempted to snack an hour or so after the final 6pm shake and vegetable meal. I often also really fancy a pint of beer. Going for a walk distracts me.

Fasting Blood Sugar
The level dropped from 8-7 to normal after week 1

Blood Pressure
This has dropped in line the weight loss and is in the normal range by week 2

Ketone Strips
I bought some ketone urine testing strips and got encouragement in the first week seeing that I was in ketosis and burning fat.

Energy Levels
The reason I went to the GP was that I was very lethargic. I thought I had a thyroid problem – but it was obviously Type 2 diabetes. Within a few days of starting the diet I am 100% more energetic and my mood is great. My family are all pleased with the change.

Water
The literature states ‘drink 3 litres of water’. Converting fat to energy uses water. I found when I go for a jog around 9 am, I grind to halt without water. Once I have some, I perk up instantly. The same applies when I’m swimming.
If I feel tired or grumpy, a glass of water fixes it pretty quickly.

Sleep
I have an enlarged prostrate and am not on medication yet. The increased water consumption for fat oxidation has resulted in very disturbed sleep due to frequent trips to the loo. I will be seeing the prostate clinic to accept their offer of alpha blockers as soon as I can get an appointment.
My sleep is reduced (Fitbit data) and deep sleep has almost disappeared. I don’t know if this is an effect of the fat metabolism – I can’t find any literature on this.

Bowel
Constipation is a known and obvious effect of not eating solids. Despite eating the prescribed salad and vegetable meals, the first week ranged from rabbit pellets to diarrhea ☹ . I bought some psyllium husk capsules and week 2 is better.

Data Tracking
I used to work in project control and like with playing spreadsheets and data so have set up trackers for blood sugar, blood pressure (I have a monitor), weight (I have a smart scale) and activity (via fitbit). I enjoy my morning data collection and updating graphs - I’m happy to share the mechanics in the unlikely event any else is interested.

Weight data can fluctuates +/- several pounds for a variety of reasons, and the ‘I put on weight days’ are discouraging. Many people recommend only weighing yourself weekly for this reason. However, you will still get a potential +/- several pounds on the day – so I like to keep a running average to forecast the trend. 15kg in 8 weeks = 267g (quarter kilo) or 9.5 oz a day. I'm averaging 295g per day over 10 days - so I'm well on track.


----------



## travellor

Looking very good.


----------



## Feathers

Loving your data! We're at a similar stage - I'm a couple of day into week three. I also did a lot of tracking, in the first week and a half especially, but it's on my website - not sure if I'm allowed to link a personal website here?

Like you, my fasting blood sugars magically improved within one week.

And 100% agree with the need to keep fluids up. Although I'm generally finding my energy levels ok on it, there's been the odd bad day, and I suspect dehydration may have played a part.


----------



## BlueArmy

Wish our project controllers produced such clear graphs. Do you have any links to the newcastle diet - been asking my GP for a referral to get on a trial at my local hospital of the 800 calorie a day diet and getting no where


----------



## Feathers

I'd recommend getting the book "Life Without Diabetes". There's also "Your Simple Guide to Reversing Type 2 Diabetes", but I found the additional science/research info in the longer book really helpful.

I'm gonna take a risk and link to my site, rather than retype a list of resources. Hopefully it's within forum rules: 
List of resources about Newcastle diet - https://ohbootype2.co.uk/resources/#newcastle-diet
My ongoing experience with it - https://ohbootype2.co.uk/newcastle-diet/


----------



## Weekender

Feathers said:


> I'd recommend getting the book "Life Without Diabetes". There's also "Your Simple Guide to Reversing Type 2 Diabetes", but I found the additional science/research info in the longer book really helpful.
> 
> I'm gonna take a risk and link to my site, rather than retype a list of resources. Hopefully it's within forum rules:
> List of resources about Newcastle diet - https://ohbootype2.co.uk/resources/#newcastle-diet
> My ongoing experience with it - https://ohbootype2.co.uk/newcastle-diet/


Your web site is great! And so is your progress. I didn't think to record my BG throughout the day - but I don't think Mrs Weekender would tolerate me spending even more time fanny about on the computer. I wish I had realised Prof Taylor's 'Simple Guide' was what it says on the tin. I love the science stuff.
I took your point about not wanting to exercise but the attached pdf 'Effects of Adding Exercise to a 16-Week Very Low-Calorie Diet' might persuade you. Keep it up


----------



## Feathers

Thanks I'll give it a read 

I've eased up on the testing after the first week and a half, it was making it harder tbh. Now just doing one day of test a week.


----------



## Weekender

BlueArmy said:


> Wish our project controllers produced such clear graphs. Do you have any links to the newcastle diet - been asking my GP for a referral to get on a trial at my local hospital of the 800 calorie a day diet and getting no where


Why thanks - nice to learn that after 30 years stuck in project performance measurement, I have transferrable skills after all 
Here is a hyperlink to the Newcastle diet website
I'm in Wales, and there is no vlcd programme. In England they have https://www.england.nhs.uk/diabetes/treatment-care/low-calorie-diets/
I don't know how to cross to link to other threads (anyone?) but if you look for @Lordy48 - she has just successfully completed a similar programme called Counterweight referred to by her GP.
I just bought the Prof Taylor book and bought the shakes recommended in the attached diet plan.
Some support from the GP would have been nice - they offered an appointment with the Diabetes Nurse, but this is not till 19th July - 8 weeks after I started the 8 week diet :-(
You will get plenty of support on this forum. Wait till you feel the wind of change blowing from your subconscious, hold your nose and jump - You can do it!


----------



## Feathers

Ooff that diet was 450cal? That's terrifying lol!


----------



## Weekender

Week 3 Data
I lost 9.9kg - I was hoping to hit 10, but I blew it having alcohol on Saturday night which resulted in 3 days no net weight loss (never again) :-(
The correlation between weight loss, blood sugar and blood pressure is very obvious. I guess I could stop at this point with my fasting blood sugars averaging 5 for two weeks, but I feel I want to "clear the ground" and get my body fat down from 22.5% (scales) 27.9% (tape measure) to below 17%  (See post on Smart Scales)

The weight loss is really slowing down, and my initial enthusiasm is wearing off. No perceptible change to my waist line anymore, but I'll stick with it


----------



## BlueArmy

Weekender said:


> Week 3 Data
> I lost 9.9kg - I was hoping to hit 10, but I blew it having alcohol on Saturday night which resulted in 3 lost days (never again) :-(
> The correlation between weight loss, blood sugar and blood pressure is very obvious. I guess I could stop at this point with my fasting blood sugars averaging 5 for two weeks, but I feel I want to "clear the ground" and get my body fat down from 22.5% (scales) 27.9% (tape measure) to below 17%  (See post on Smart Scales)
> 
> The weight loss is really slowing down, and my initial enthusiasm is wearing off. No perceptible change to my waist line anymore, but I'll stick with it
> 
> View attachment 17421
> 
> View attachment 17422
> View attachment 17424


Never say never! Your doing really well, i’m in awe. However give yourself a break if you stumble. Afterall whilst your alive you should live, and 99% on top of it is probably good enough!


----------



## Weekender

BlueArmy said:


> Never say never! Your doing really well, i’m in awe. However give yourself a break if you stumble. Afterall whilst your alive you should live, and 99% on top of it is probably good enough!


Thanks Blue Army


----------



## EllsBells

The slowing down will be partly due to the weight water being gone. Now you've dried out, you're working properly through your visceral fat. It takes your body a while to adapt. You're doing really well!


----------



## Feathers

Amazing charts again! And good for you for keeping going. Good luck with the coming week!


----------



## Weekender

EllsBells said:


> The slowing down will be partly due to the weight water being gone. Now you've dried out, you're working properly through your visceral fat. It takes your body a while to adapt. You're doing really well!


Thanks @EllsBells  - looking at your signature data, so are you! It was quite marked marked how having alcohol on Saturday night seemed to throw things into reverse - I've been 'bloated' for a few days now. I will think more than twice before doing that again. My family think my data monitoring is too obsessive, but its showing me cause and effect. Hopefully this all part of my re-education.


----------



## travellor

Weekender said:


> Thanks @EllsBells  - looking at your signature data, so are you! It was quite marked marked how having alcohol on Saturday night seemed to throw things into reverse - I've been 'bloated' for a few days now. I will think more than twice before doing that again. My family think my data monitoring is too obsessive, but its showing me cause and effect. Hopefully this all part of my re-education.



Well, there are around 600 to 800 calories in a bottle of wine, any extra calories will change your metabolism from a few days to a couple of weeks.


----------



## Weekender

travellor said:


> Well, there are around 600 to 800 calories in a bottle of wine, any extra calories will change your metabolism from a few days to a couple of weeks.


A few weeks! I hope not ;-) Lesson well and truly learned


----------



## travellor

Weekender said:


> A few weeks! I hope not ;-) Lesson well and truly learned



Any change to a diet, medication, will take a while to settle down, the same when you finish, if you choose a diet to move onto, in all honesty you have to ignore anything for the first couple of weeks, then you'll start to see stable data.


----------



## Weekender

Activity Graph from Fitbit data. 


World Health Organisation
*Adults aged 18–64 years*

should do at least 150–300 minutes of moderate-intensity aerobic physical activity; 
or at least 75–150 minutes of vigorous-intensity aerobic physical activity; or an equivalent combination of moderate- and vigorous-intensity activity throughout the week


----------



## Weekender

It's just a number, but nice to get past *10kg!*
I nearly chucked it all in last night. A fresh crusty loaf from the bread machine triggered the urge for a cheese sandwich at 9pm
Seriously considered throwing in my future health for a bloomin' cheese sandwich - seems hilarious this morning, but it was touch and go last night.


----------



## Feathers

Well done for resisting!

What app are you using by the way?


----------



## Weekender

Feathers said:


> Well done for resisting!
> 
> What app are you using by the way?


Thanks Feathers  
How is your's going?

The app that comes with my etekcity scales https://www.vesync.com/app


			https://www.amazon.co.uk/Etekcity-Bluetooth-Wireless-Bathroom-Composition/dp/B07D7ND4YH
		

Getting the biometric data to work is a song and dance.
My thoughts on smart scales are on this thread


----------



## trophywench

Have you seen the doc to get alpha blockers yet, only your BP is getting a bit low now ....


----------



## Weekender

Thanks @trophywench , I wasn't aware this was an issue. I've had no interaction with GP other than 'see the practice diabetes nurse' and her first available slot isn't till 19th July (8 weeks from the request).
I have prostate issues and was offered alpha blockers, but didn't want to take meds.
Would you mind pointing me at information so I can better understand the low blood pressure issue an how it relates to weight loss please? I have been feeling a bit light headed


----------



## Feathers

Weekender said:


> Thanks Feathers
> How is your's going?


Am trying to only weight & test once a week (constant monitoring was adding to the pressure/not doing me any good) So no new numbers. But am sticking to the 1100-1200. Still enjoying the shakes. Finding it easier than I expected not to eat in the evenings. I am slightly hungrier than I was on the 800, probably predictably - but I also have a TON more energy.


----------



## Weekender

More energy is fantastic  
How you feel and function is a much more important indicator than all these bloomn' metrics I keep twiddling with.  
Your diet is _*working*_ !


----------



## Weekender

trophywench said:


> Have you seen the doc to get alpha blockers yet, only your BP is getting a bit low now ....


I had a bit more Soy sauce than usual with a stir fry last night - might be coincidence that my BP ticked up this morning.
I've ordered some electrolytes, and had a miso soup this morning.
Now you've mentioned it I've noticed I started 'wobbly leg' muscle twitches this morning - which I always did as teenager. I also felt giddy and had to sit down when I got out of the pool after a 1km swim this morning.

 








						Low blood pressure (hypotension)
					

Find out about low blood pressure (hypotension), including what the symptoms are, when to get your blood pressure checked and treatments for low blood pressure.




					www.nhs.uk
				



However I just put my lowest ever Diastolic and my lowest ever Systolic  readings in the NHS calculator and still came out with 'ideal' so no drugs for me


----------



## trophywench

I looked up alpha blockers on the NHS site, cos I couldn't remember where I'd heard of them from - but anyway was saying that you had to watch out for orthostatic hypotension, and I was aware from looking at your graphs how lovely your BP was!

My husband's was similar all his life - and when I first visited their house was astonished to discover the seat was never left up, even if he'd only just been before I needed to.  After we got together I asked him about this and apparently a couple of times in the past when he'd been in bed and woke up and had to shoot the loo pdq, he'd literally fallen over with a crash and woke the hole house up as he hit everything between him and the floor.  So although he could and would stand up, he usually sits down to wee as well as big jobs!  After his prostatectomy - they wouldn't let him come home cos his BP was only 118 over 60 - and I was saying to the ward sister - What the hell have you been doing to him in here? - you're clearly stressing him out, according to his BP on your machine!  And he was saying OK I'll stay in and be bed blocking until I pop me clogs then ..... or you could try ringing my consultant and asking him if I usually have a lowish BP, and see what he says.


----------



## Weekender

Dehydration - *Warning*
Link _VLCDs require medical supervision because of the increased risk for medical complications, including electrolyte imbalance, dehydration, gallstones, and other abnormalities._
My Blood Pressure this morning was very low 80/55 which was alarming. I hadn't drunk my usual pint or two of water upon waking. I drank 2 pints of water, waited an hour and BP was 112/75 (see chart). I bought some electrolytes, and now add these to my exercise water bottle. So a word of warning if you are DIY (there is no support available from my GP practice), make sure you stick to the recommended 3 litres a day  - The process of lipolysis (breaking down _fat_) _requires *water*_


----------



## Leadinglights

trophywench said:


> I looked up alpha blockers on the NHS site, cos I couldn't remember where I'd heard of them from - but anyway was saying that you had to watch out for orthostatic hypotension, and I was aware from looking at your graphs how lovely your BP was!
> 
> My husband's was similar all his life - and when I first visited their house was astonished to discover the seat was never left up, even if he'd only just been before I needed to.  After we got together I asked him about this and apparently a couple of times in the past when he'd been in bed and woke up and had to shoot the loo pdq, he'd literally fallen over with a crash and woke the hole house up as he hit everything between him and the floor.  So although he could and would stand up, he usually sits down to wee as well as big jobs!  After his prostatectomy - they wouldn't let him come home cos his BP was only 118 over 60 - and I was saying to the ward sister - What the hell have you been doing to him in here? - you're clearly stressing him out, according to his BP on your machine!  And he was saying OK I'll stay in and be bed blocking until I pop me clogs then ..... or you could try ringing my consultant and asking him if I usually have a lowish BP, and see what he says.


Alpha blockers are often taken for BPH (prostate issues) so Tamsulosin is a common one. That may be why you have heard of it.


----------



## trophywench

What I was actually thinking to tell the truth was asking myself 'are those summat to do with blood pressure' and the answer to that is no you silly moo, that's Beta blockers.....

Changing to the original drug and what it's for, and yes I know 'benign' only means 'well it ain't cancerous' but when applied to prostate hyperplasia, not usually entirely unnoticeable. 

In view of the way the word is used in day to day language, the bloke might quite easily think Oh well, that's doing me good then, isn't it! and I couldn't blame him for that.  Rather like the word 'chronic' ........


----------



## Weekender

Week 4 Update
Blood pressure is still very low in the morning. An hour after a couple of pints of water it reverts to normal.
3 days holiday in Pembroke / Saundersfoot etc to visit my daughter - very beautiful county. Being out and about I had food over and above the 800 calories - fish fingers, chicken curry, and cawl (lamb stem) with crusty white roll and cheese.
So I shouldn't be surprised I only lost 0.3Kg over the three days. A bit disappointing as we walked 15Km up and down on Sunday.
Fasting blood sugars at 5.6 this morning - which is an unwelcome increase
Weight loss so far 12.2Kg, but the trend is decreasing. 
Off for  jog and a swim today which should stimulate some fat burn


----------



## Feathers

Progress is still progress, and sounds like you managed a nice break without completely blowing it, which is awesome.


----------



## Weekender

Metabolism - Heart Rate
Week 5 of the Newcastle 800 calorie a day diet and the change in my resting heart rate is quite marked.
Prior to the diet my resting heart rate averaged 64bpm, and this week 54bpm.



You would expect the heart to have an easier time of now I'm 12Kg lighter, but it is a significant drop.
Reading around the subject I learned:
_Caloric restriction is known to produce a short-term reduction in resting metabolic rate. Adaptive thermogenesis (AT) has been proposed to be a compensatory response that may resist weight loss and promote weight regain_
Well this seems bad news, the body slows down in response to fewer calories.
I felt I was maintaining  / increasing the activity I was doing. But the data shows that whilst I felt I was doing more I wasn't.

Ideally the diet would burn fat, but leave the fat free mass unaffected by protein oxidation (burning muscle)
The research is fairly inconsistent. Some state AT is temporary, others that is the reason diets fail in the long term.
This article describes a few things to do to off set the problem.
I'm going to increase weight training and started adding whey protein to the dietary mix (increase calories)
I started yesterday and have added 0.4kg this morning :-(
Early days.

Blood Pressure update - Still low in the morning, but perks up to normal after some water and coffee


----------



## Eddy Edson

Weekender said:


> Metabolism - Heart Rate
> Week 5 of the Newcastle 800 calorie a day diet and the change in my resting heart rate is quite marked.
> Prior to the diet my resting heart rate averaged 64bpm, and this week 54bpm.
> 
> View attachment 17554
> View attachment 17555
> You would expect the heart to have easier time of now I'm 12Kg lighter, but it is a significant drop.
> Reading around the subject I learned:
> _Caloric restriction is known to produce a short-term reduction in resting metabolic rate. Adaptive thermogenesis (AT) has been proposed to be a compensatory response that may resist weight loss and promote weight regain_
> Well this seems bad news, the body slows down in response to fewer calories.
> I felt I was maintaining  / increasing the activity I was doing. But the data shows that whilst I felt I was doing more I wasn't.
> 
> Ideally the diet would burn fat, but leave the fat free mass unaffected by protein oxidation (burning muscle)
> The research is fairly inconsistent. Some state AT is temporary, others that is the reason diets fail in the long term.
> This article describes a few things to do to off set the problem.
> I'm going to increase weight training and started adding whey protein to the dietary mix (increase calories)
> I started yesterday and have added 0.4kg this morning :-(
> Early days.
> 
> Blood Pressure update - Still low in the morning, but perks up to normal after some water and coffee
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 17552


Recent book on metabolism by leading researcher Herman Pontzer (witht that name, he better be a leading researcher!):  https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/603894/burn-by-herman-pontzer-phd/

_Pontzer’s groundbreaking studies with hunter-gatherer tribes show how exercise doesn’t increase our metabolism. Instead, we burn calories within a very narrow range: nearly 3,000 calories per day, no matter our activity level. This was a brilliant evolutionary strategy to survive in times of famine. Now it seems to doom us to obesity. The good news is we can lose weight, but we need to cut calories. Refuting such weight-loss hype as paleo, keto, anti-gluten, anti-grain, and even vegan, Pontzer discusses how all diets succeed or fail: For shedding pounds, a calorie is a calorie._

It's better than the blurb and the hype on the cover. Basically: No matter how active you are, you'll burn about the same amount of energy. So eg despite being way more active, Hadza hunter gatherers burn about the same as Western office workers. Most of the energy you burn is your cells doing their various things, not related to exercise.  When you exercise more, what yr cells do changes to keep total expenditure about the same.  

FWIW, I wouldn't combine a very low calorie diet with lots of exercise. Note that Roy Taylor recommends against it.  Focus on calorie reduction to lose the weight, and when you're at target, increase calories to a "normal" level and stack on exercise to maintain the weight loss.

For other really interesting good science on weight stuff, check out Kevin Hall's work. Lead obesity etc researcher at the US National Institutes for Health, a number of groundbreaking experiments and studies in recent years.  









						Publications | Kevin D. Hall, Ph.D. | NIDDK
					

A highlight of the most recent influential research publications from Kevin D. Hall, Ph.D.




					www.niddk.nih.gov
				





			https://twitter.com/KevinH_PhD


----------



## Weekender

Eddy Edson said:


> Recent book on metabolism by leading researcher Herman Pontzer (witht that name, he better be a leading researcher!):  https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/603894/burn-by-herman-pontzer-phd/
> 
> _Pontzer’s groundbreaking studies with hunter-gatherer tribes show how exercise doesn’t increase our metabolism. Instead, we burn calories within a very narrow range: nearly 3,000 calories per day, no matter our activity level. This was a brilliant evolutionary strategy to survive in times of famine. Now it seems to doom us to obesity. The good news is we can lose weight, but we need to cut calories. Refuting such weight-loss hype as paleo, keto, anti-gluten, anti-grain, and even vegan, Pontzer discusses how all diets succeed or fail: For shedding pounds, a calorie is a calorie._
> 
> It's better than the blurb and the hype on the cover. Basically: No matter how active you are, you'll burn about the same amount of energy. So eg despite being way more active, Hadza hunter gatherers burn about the same as Western office workers. Most of the energy you burn is your cells doing their various things, not related to exercise.  When you exercise more, what yr cells do changes to keep total expenditure about the same.
> 
> FWIW, I wouldn't combine a very low calorie diet with lots of exercise. Note that Roy Taylor recommends against it.  Focus on calorie reduction to lose the weight, and when you're at target, increase calories to a "normal" level and stack on exercise to maintain the weight loss.
> 
> For other really interesting good science on weight stuff, check out Kevin Hall's work. Lead obesity etc researcher at the US National Institutes for Health, a number of groundbreaking experiments and studies in recent years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Publications | Kevin D. Hall, Ph.D. | NIDDK
> 
> 
> A highlight of the most recent influential research publications from Kevin D. Hall, Ph.D.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.niddk.nih.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/KevinH_PhD


Thanks Eddy, 
I appreciate your reply, I will search out Herman Pontzer and Kevin Hall. I'm a bit lazy so I tend to look for the book launch videos of any book I'm interested in rather than read the book. I will watch this:   Dr Herman Pontzer - the author of Burn
Your description of Pontzer's work reminded   Daniel E. Lieberman's new book, “Exercised: Why Something We Never Evolved to Do Is Healthy and Rewarding” Here's a nice 10 minute video from him:
5 Common Exercise Myths Debunked | Daniel Lieberman

I saw that Prof Taylor advises against exercise + diet,  his rationale is that exercise tends to make people hungry and that post exercise people feel they have 'earned' extra calorie credits to eat more (We always overestimate how many we burn). 
I'm comfy that I won't fall into that trap.

There is a fair bit of research (one example paper attached) illustrating that exercise + VLCD  results in the same weight loss as VLCD only, but you retain more muscle mass and lose more adipose fat as a %.

But to be honest, week 5 and I'm getting fed up with constipation, slower weight loss and a bit concerned about blood pressure and resting heart rate. My fasting blood sugars are fine now. In week 4 my motivation switched from T2 remission to:
~Complete the 8 weeks to prove I can
~Get from a 43" to a 37" waist and  / or healthy body fat %

I'm tempted to move off the 800 calories and carry on with just no more beer (alcohol in general) or bread


----------



## Eddy Edson

Weekender said:


> Thanks Eddy,
> I appreciate your reply, I will search out Herman Pontzer and Kevin Hall. I'm a bit lazy so I tend to look for the book launch videos of any book I'm interested in rather than read the book. I will watch this:   Dr Herman Pontzer - the author of Burn
> Your description of Pontzer's work reminded   Daniel E. Lieberman's new book, “Exercised: Why Something We Never Evolved to Do Is Healthy and Rewarding” Here's a nice 10 minute video from him:
> 5 Common Exercise Myths Debunked | Daniel Lieberman
> 
> I saw that Prof Taylor advises against exercise + diet,  his rationale is that exercise tends to make people hungry and that post exercise people feel they have 'earned' extra calorie credits to eat more (We always overestimate how many we burn).
> I'm comfy that I won't fall into that trap.
> 
> There is a fair bit of research (one example paper attached) illustrating that exercise + VLCD  results in the same weight loss as VLCD only, but you retain more muscle mass and lose more adipose fat as a %.
> 
> But to be honest, week 5 and I'm getting fed up with constipation, slower weight loss and a bit concerned about blood pressure and resting heart rate. My fasting blood sugars are fine now. In week 4 my motivation switched from T2 remission to:
> ~Complete the 8 weeks to prove I can
> ~Get from a 43" to a 37" waist and  / or healthy body fat %
> 
> I'm tempted to move off the 800 calories and carry on with just no more beer (alcohol in general) or bread


Good luck!

The Kevin Hall guy I mentioned is really a bit of a rockstar amongst serious metabolism etc researchers & he speaks quite well. Presenting a fascinating overview of his reserach and experiments from the last few years:


----------



## Weekender

Thanks, I'll watch this tonight


----------



## Weekender

Wow. That was really informative and interesting. I'll have to watch it a few more times for it all to sink in.
Low carb diet results in faster weight loss but an increased % reduction in fat free body mass ~ more fat loss on a low fat diet. 
Fascinating to see the dramatic impact of the switch to ketosis on energy expenditure is the short term, but at the cost breaking down protein /  gluconeogenesis reduced fat free body mass. I wonder if increasing dietary protein might offset this?
It's really cool to see the correlation between my data and the study 

Weight loss rate


Energy Expenditure


I think I'll stop the VLCD and just cut some calories and exercise more.


----------



## Weekender

*Plateau*. 
_"before you get too discouraged, you should know that it’s normal for weight loss to slow and even stall for a while. That is because your body has adapted to your current programme, and has learned to cope with the same energy demands while burning fewer calories". _

Well I *am* mightily discouraged as it happens. No weight loss in 6 days.
3.4 Kg away from my target 15kg / 15% weight loss and feel like walking away.
Calories are constant (Easy to measure on a meal replacement diet). I'm still also only eating between 12:00 and 19:00. I'm jogging and swimming etc.  However I am a bit more sedentary in between bouts of exercise. This is to be expected as my metabolism adjusts to fewer calories and slows down.
I will try and do more weights, but I really dislike weight training.
I am also very constipated despite drinking several extra pints of water. I've ordered some senna tea.


----------



## Weekender

Plateau Part 2

Fasting blood sugars and blood pressure have been perfect for 4 weeks - perhaps the 15kg target is just vanity


----------



## Drummer

Restricting calories might well result in a permanent reduction in metabolism - my normal temperature is a degree C lower than normal, even when taking Thyroxine.  Several times during my life I have been pushed to eat fewer and fewer calories to the point where I was collapsing, and weightloss became almost impossible as even a short period of restriction resulted in my metabolism slowing down, so my heartrate slowed and became irregular, I lost my usual rose pink colour and went grey, my muscles had no strength and I could  not run up stairs - or anywhere at all. 
It is not an unusual situation and many successful dieters find that they have to lower their 'normal' intake just to prevent weight gain, and after each session of weightloss they have a lower percentage of muscle, with higher fat ratios than when they started.


----------



## Weekender

Drummer said:


> Restricting calories might well result in a permanent reduction in metabolism - my normal temperature is a degree C lower than normal, even when taking Thyroxine.  Several times during my life I have been pushed to eat fewer and fewer calories to the point where I was collapsing, and weightloss became almost impossible as even a short period of restriction resulted in my metabolism slowing down, so my heartrate slowed and became irregular, I lost my usual rose pink colour and went grey, my muscles had no strength and I could  not run up stairs - or anywhere at all.
> It is not an unusual situation and many successful dieters find that they have to lower their 'normal' intake just to prevent weight gain, and after each session of weightloss they have a lower percentage of muscle, with higher fat ratios than when they started.


Thanks Drummer. A valuable lesson there. Pointless losing muscle and becoming less vital.

I'll stick with the 800 calories till Tuesday / end of week 5. If I'm still not losing weight I'll assume that my metabolism is happy where it is.


----------



## taylormade

Feathers said:


> I'd recommend getting the book "Life Without Diabetes". There's also "Your Simple Guide to Reversing Type 2 Diabetes", but I found the additional science/research info in the longer book really helpful.
> 
> I'm gonna take a risk and link to my site, rather than retype a list of resources. Hopefully it's within forum rules:
> List of resources about Newcastle diet - https://ohbootype2.co.uk/resources/#newcastle-diet
> My ongoing experience with it - https://ohbootype2.co.uk/newcastle-diet/


Thanks so much for posting these resources.  The Newcastle lecture is amazing.


----------



## Weekender

Plateau Part 3
Senna tea worked. 0.9Kg lighter this morning


----------



## travellor

Weekender said:


> Plateau Part 3
> Senna tea worked. 0.9Kg lighter this morning


Yes, you don't lose much weight if you stay hydrated, and don't go to the toilet!
You might well find your metabolism reverting back to normal now.
Any muscle loss will soon be recovered if you exercise after increasing your calories again.
Just balance it to your muscle gain, obviously if you ate to excess before, and stored it as fat, eating the same again will have the same effect.
It's not your metabolism that has changed.


----------



## Weekender

Cheers Travelor.
I'm doing some DIY today and found I ground to a halt. I've increased  my my breakfast (12 am) intake with a  supplementary scoop of plant based protein powder. Hopefully I'll perk up shortly


----------



## Weekender

Week 5 Results

Lessons learned
I wasn't drinking enough water - 3 Litres is recommended, but I think I need to drink more as I'm bigger than average. More water (5 litres a day + electrolytes)  has solved the constipation. It's a challenge to remember to drink, A pint an hour?


Weight loss was slowing so I'm cutting calories (omit one 200 cal shake, add more salad and veg).
I realised that whilst I was keeping up the 'exercise' I was actually a lot more sedentary the rest of the time

Blood pressure is trending back to normal - probably a result of better hydration


----------



## Weekender

Weekender said:


> Week 5 Results
> View attachment 17634
> Lessons learned
> I wasn't drinking enough water - 3 Litres is recommended, but I think I need to drink more as I'm bigger than average. More water (5 litres a day + electrolytes)  has solved the constipation.
> 
> View attachment 17636
> Weight loss was slowing so I'm cutting calories (omit one 200 cal shake, add more salad and veg).
> I realised that whilst I was keeping up the 'exercise' I was actually a lot more sedentary the rest of the time
> 
> Blood pressure is trending back to normal - probably a result of better hydration
> 
> View attachment 17635


----------



## Weekender

(Week 6 Day 3) Well I'm out. Weight loss had plateaued, energy levels were scrapping the floor, bowel movements were a vague memory and the family hated me for being grumpy. 

*However, *I have lost 13.5% of my body weight and my blood sugars etc are normal. 

According to the NHS BMI Calculator I still need to lose 4.3Kg, but I intend to do this more gradually. More calories and more exercise sounds like it will be more fun.

The critical success factor for me will be staying off the beer.

Thanks for the support and advice I've received, it was an important factor in helping me stick with it   

I will still post a weekly update, to keep me motivated and I will follow everyone's journey.


----------



## Weekender

Diabetes said


Back on the programme this morning 
That was a valuable lesson.
Orange Kit Kit + Orange Jacobs Club did the damage. 
Mrs W and I have had this debate for 31 years - her position is that I need more will power and that she has a basic human right to keep chocolate in the fridge. I'm just relieved she doesn't like beer.
Marathon not a sprint I guess


----------



## Weekender

Week 6 Results

Hit the 15Kg.
I'll stick with the 800 calories to the end of week 8 so I have a healthy BMI

I'm glad I stuck with it. The week 5 plateau was demotivating, but weight loss is pretty decent this week.

*Exercise and Calories*
It feels like I'm resting  a lot more.  This concurs with what @Eddy Edson was saying about Herman Pontzer’s book :  "exercise doesn’t increase our metabolism. Instead, we burn calories within a very narrow range: nearly 3,000 calories per day, no matter our activity level"

In the graph you'll see that my Very Active minutes (orange line) shot up during weeks 1-2 of the diet as I had tons more energy. I've stuck with the swimming and running (Mins Very Active ) but overall Calories (grey column) burned stick in the 3000 range



*Blood Sugars*
Fasting blood sugars took a while to stabilise, so  there is some way to go before my insulin sensitivity is okay.

*Constipation *is still a challenge. Drinking lots more water, eating lots of soluble fibre (broccoli, carrots, apricots, pears, seeds etc etc) but have to resort to senna tea and microlax to get things moving.


----------



## Weekender

Week 7 Results
Weight loss diminishing as I have reintroduced food.
Nothing particularly interesting going on. Blood pressure still dropping.
I suppose still not drinking after 7 weeks including the Euro Finals is good going. I'm starting to feel like I can live the rest of my life without beer.
I did eat some toast though


----------



## Weekender

*Fell off the wagon*
It started with a bottle of beer left in the  garage, ended with a raid on the spirits cabinet, toasted cheese wrap, bag of pistachios, chocolate mousse and whatever other crap was in the fridge.
I put on 1.65kg overnight. Which is a kick in the teeth. It will take over two weeks to lose that.
However, I was very pleasantly surprised that my fasting blood sugars were 5.0 - lowest they have been all week. I re-tested = 4.7. Blood pressure was unaffected too. 
Not an experiment I want to repeat in a hurry, but I suspect it says something positive about my insulin resistance?


----------



## Eddy Edson

Weekender said:


> *Fell off the wagon*
> It started with a bottle of beer left in the  garage, ended with a raid on the spirits cabinet, toasted cheese wrap, bag of pistachios, chocolate mousse and whatever other crap was in the fridge.
> I put on 1.65kg overnight. Which is a kick in the teeth. It will take over two weeks to lose that.
> However, I was very pleasantly surprised that my fasting blood sugars were 5.0 - lowest they have been all week. I re-tested = 4.7. Blood pressure was unaffected too.
> Not an experiment I want to repeat in a hurry, but I suspect it says something positive about my insulin resistance?


Seriously - there is absolutely no way you put on 1.65kg body fat overnight. That's like 15,000 kcal.

It will be water and food moving through yr gut.


----------



## Weekender

Hi Eddy - yes I'm sure your right. Probably a chunk of water retention  / glycogen. Anyway, it was a good poke in the eye. Back on the waggon, I've poured the content of the spirits cabinet down the sink


----------



## travellor

Water retention, and the rest you'll lose when you go to the toilet.
BG is good.
That is the benefit of the Newcastle Diet. It looks like you have got a normal.insulin response there, but I wouldn't do that every day


----------



## Weekender

travellor said:


> Water retention, and the rest you'll lose when you go to the toilet.
> BG is good.
> That is the benefit of the Newcastle Diet. It looks like you have got a normal.insulin response there, but I wouldn't do that every day


I'm not counting any chickens, but fingers crossed. My first appointment with the Diabetes Nurse is next Monday. Hopefully she'll tell me what my HBA1c levels were 9 weeks ago. I hope to have another test in 6 weeks to see the effects of the diet


----------



## mage 1

“Thanks for sharing your journey with us
I like your weekly updates and graphics .you are doing so well


----------



## travellor

Weekender said:


> I'm not counting any chickens, but fingers crossed. My first appointment with the Diabetes Nurse is next Monday. Hopefully she'll tell me what my HBA1c levels were 9 weeks ago. I hope to have another test in 6 weeks to see the effects of the diet


The test is weighted.
Approximately 50% of the value due to the mean blood glucose concentrations is the 30 days prior to sampling; BG concentrations from the previous 90 to 120 days make up about 10% of the final total value, and the rest inbetween.


----------



## Weekender

travellor said:


> The test is weighted.
> Approximately 50% of the value due to the mean blood glucose concentrations is the 30 days prior to sampling; BG concentrations from the previous 90 to 120 days make up about 10% of the final total value, and the rest inbetween.


Thanks travellor. That's fascinating, I've no idea how they do that. I assumed it was based on the glucose bound to the total population of red blood cells in circulation - some being old some being new. I'll see if I can learn more about it from the web


----------



## Weekender

Weekender said:


> Thanks travellor. That's fascinating, I've no idea how they do that. I assumed it was based on the glucose bound to the total population of red blood cells in circulation - some being old some being new. I'll see if I can learn more about it from the web


Link


----------



## travellor

Weekender said:


> Thanks travellor. That's fascinating, I've no idea how they do that. I assumed it was based on the glucose bound to the total population of red blood cells in circulation - some being old some being new. I'll see if I can learn more about it from the web


Yes, it is the age of the red blood cells.
The figure you get is simply a measurement of the actual cells, 50  percent being less than  30 days old, 50 percent over thirty days old, so the hba1c result is weighted to a recent value, not a 90 day old value. It also depends on your red cell count, and how fast you personally replenish them.


----------



## Leadinglights

I


travellor said:


> Yes, it is the age of the red blood cells.
> The figure you get is simply a measurement of the actual cells, 50  percent being less than  30 days old, 50 percent over thirty days old, so the hba1c result is weighted to a recent value, not a 90 day old value. It also depends on your red cell count, and how fast you personally replenish them.


----------



## Leadinglights

I suppose that is why the standard HbA1C test is not always accurate for people with haemoglobinopathies.


----------



## Weekender

*Fasting Blood Sugars* Some advice or feedback please

I've noticed my fasting blood sugar levels are generally increasing despite steady weight loss
Last night we went to a neighbours birthday do, I took a tin of mints that my daughter had left in the car, to distract me from not drinking. I assumed they were sugar free, and didn't realise until I got home to my reading glasses that they weren't.  I'm assuming that they are the reason my fasting blood sugar was 8.2

Two questions:

1. I'm using a Contour Next One blood glucose monitor, which is supposed to be pretty accurate link. I took three readings within a minute of each other, as I was surprised by the first 8.2. Subsequent readings were 7.3 and 6.4.
Does anybody know why the three readings should be so different?

2. I'm feeling despondent, because 8.2 after chomping on a couple of dozen small mints leads me to conclude that the Newcastle diet hasn't reset my insulin sensitivity, and I should be open to having to take drugs. Is this a reasonable conclusion?


----------



## Weekender

An informative article here Why Is My Glucose Meter Giving Different Readings

_technology currently used in home diabetes testing supplies are only capable of testing within a 10-20% +/- margin of error. The FDA mandates minimum accuracy standards for testing supplies in the US, currently following the *ISO 15197:2013 *standard of 95% of tests must be within +/- 20% for results above 75 mg/dl and +/-15% for results below 75 mg/dl._

8.2 - 6.4 = 1.8 = 21.95% - nothing to see here ?


----------



## travellor

Do you wash and dry your hands before testing?


----------



## Weekender

travellor said:


> Do you wash and dry your hands before testing?


I haven't been, but I will now. I just retested - 5.3 ! ?
I don't know if that's the two hours elapsed whilst fasting or washing my hands - but I'll certainly be doing that in future
The strips aren't cheap


----------



## Docb

Hi @Weekender.   A little while ago I did all ten fingers, one after the other just to see what variation you can get.  What I found was that the range was far higher than you might think and that the  95% confidence interval about the mean was 1 unit or thereabouts.  This would be due to a mix of instrument error and sampling error and my gut feeling is that the sampling error due to inherent inhomogeneity in the blood is more important than the variability in the machine.  

My rule of thumb is to ignore the decimal point in one off readings and then accept that it could easily be one unit higher or lower.  So for me the variation of 8.2, 7.3 and 6.4 could easily be due to statistical error in the measurement.  It's certainly not enough to be thinking about changes to compensate.


----------



## Weekender

Docb said:


> Hi @Weekender.   A little while ago I did all ten fingers, one after the other just to see what variation you can get.  What I found was that the range was far higher than you might think and that the  95% confidence interval about the mean was 1 unit or thereabouts.  This would be due to a mix of instrument error and sampling error and my gut feeling is that the sampling error due to inherent inhomogeneity in the blood is more important than the variability in the machine.
> 
> My rule of thumb is to ignore the decimal point in one off readings and then accept that it could easily be one unit higher or lower.  So for me the variation of 8.2, 7.3 and 6.4 could easily be due to statistical error in the measurement.  It's certainly not enough to be thinking about changes to compensate.


Thanks Docb


----------



## Drummer

Weekender said:


> *Fell off the wagon*
> It started with a bottle of beer left in the  garage, ended with a raid on the spirits cabinet, toasted cheese wrap, bag of pistachios, chocolate mousse and whatever other crap was in the fridge.
> I put on 1.65kg overnight. Which is a kick in the teeth. It will take over two weeks to lose that.
> However, I was very pleasantly surprised that my fasting blood sugars were 5.0 - lowest they have been all week. I re-tested = 4.7. Blood pressure was unaffected too.
> Not an experiment I want to repeat in a hurry, but I suspect it says something positive about my insulin resistance?


I see exactly the same thing - but it is how I am made. - I have been told that it is impossible - but arguing with the numbers on the scale plus my personal experience of numerous similar increases?
One particular time I saw the GP one day and the nurse the next, and they said it was down to different scales, so I insisted on waiting and the scales in the Drs room being used to check - yes there was a difference - they showed even more weight gain.
Don't be despondent about it - it shows that things are working as they should - even if it is not what we might like.


----------



## travellor

I did many tests.
Hot cold, inactive, active, everything changed.
My feeling is the capillary blood pools in your finger, and refreshed at a different rate depending on your body conditions. 
So you may see a large change if your core blood is suddenly flushed into your capillary blood.
My readings supported that.
Your multiple testing readings may be partly due to the increase in blood flow in that test area, if you did the same finger.
There is a great debate on capillary blood testing versus venous blood.

And yes, meter accuracy is appalling.
I didn't get hung up on meter readings, I rarely test now, Hba1c is a much better guide.

With regard to your mints though, the worst reading I ever got was after eating a jam donut.
After I washed the sugar off my fingers, it was much better, so I'd always wash before testing!


----------



## Leadinglights

With blood glucose testing people rely on a single reading unless something feel completely awry but when doing most scientific testing it is usual to do replicates, at the minimum 3 and look at the spread of those having a level at which it  would represent a significant difference.


----------



## Weekender

Docb said:


> Hi @Weekender.   A little while ago I did all ten fingers, one after the other just to see what variation you can get.  What I found was that the range was far higher than you might think and that the  95% confidence interval about the mean was 1 unit or thereabouts.  This would be due to a mix of instrument error and sampling error and my gut feeling is that the sampling error due to inherent inhomogeneity in the blood is more important than the variability in the machine.
> 
> My rule of thumb is to ignore the decimal point in one off readings and then accept that it could easily be one unit higher or lower.  So for me the variation of 8.2, 7.3 and 6.4 could easily be due to statistical error in the measurement.  It's certainly not enough to be thinking about changes to compensate.


"inherent inhomogeneity in the blood" something else to learn about 


travellor said:


> I did many tests.
> Hot cold, inactive, active, everything changed.
> My feeling is the capillary blood pools in your finger, and refreshed at a different rate depending on your body conditions.
> So you may see a large change if your core blood is suddenly flushed into your capillary blood.
> My readings supported that.
> Your multiple testing readings may be partly due to the increase in blood flow in that test area, if you did the same finger.
> There is a great debate on capillary blood testing versus venous blood.
> 
> And yes, meter accuracy is appalling.
> I didn't get hung up on meter readings, I rarely test now, Hba1c is a much better guide.
> 
> With regard to your mints though, the worst reading I ever got was after eating a jam donut.
> After I washed the sugar off my fingers, it was much better, so I'd always wash before testing!


"I washed the sugar off my fingers"


----------



## Weekender

Week 8 - Thank you 

I had my appointment with the GP Diabetes nurse yesterday. I learned my HBA1c was 49 mmol on 22/04/21. Normal is below 48.
I'm pleased that I didn't know I was so marginally over, as I may have ignored the problem. 

I've learned a  lot from the experience and the superb support and advice from the members on this forum. *Thank You.* 
I've booked another test next week (27th).

I'm pleased I did the 8 weeks 800 calorie diet. I actually started swapping shakes for food about 10 days ago.
To anyone thinking of trying a Low Calorie Diet, I would say go for it . 8 weeks felt 'do-able' and the lessons I learned about myself are valuable and (hopefully) will be a useful resource in the future.   

Last night we went to the pub to celebrate, and I took the brakes off (mixed grill, several beers and chasers)
Apparently I added 2.4kg overnight (!) but I'm not overly concerned as the last big jump was lost in few days 
I will not be buying alcohol for home consumption, nor will I be eating carbs.
I aim to get to 79kg or body fat from 20% to below 17% by the end of August (I may start weight training, in which case kg is a less important target). I will keep recording and posting on the forum, as this is a great motivator.


----------



## travellor

Sounds a great result.
The beauty of doing it once is you know if you do ever need to trim up again for any reason, it's simply a question of cutting calories again, and bang, the weight is gone, (as they say).
But the gym is a good option, I'm certainly glad I can hit mine again now it's opened back up.


----------



## Leadinglights

Weekender said:


> Week 8 - Thank you
> 
> I had my appointment with the GP Diabetes nurse yesterday. I learned my HBA1c was 49 mmol on 22/04/21. Normal is below 48.
> I'm pleased that I didn't know I was so marginally over, as I may have ignored the problem.
> 
> I've learned a  lot from the experience and the superb support and advice from the members on this forum. *Thank You.*
> I've booked another test next week (27th).
> 
> I'm pleased I did the 8 weeks 800 calorie diet. I actually started swapping shakes for food about 10 days ago.
> To anyone thinking of trying a Low Calorie Diet, I would say go for it . 8 weeks felt 'do-able' and the lessons I learned about myself are valuable and (hopefully) will be a useful resource in the future.
> 
> Last night we went to the pub to celebrate, and I took the brakes off (mixed grill, several beers and chasers)
> Apparently I added 2.4kg overnight (!) but I'm not overly concerned as the last big jump was lost in few days
> I will not be buying alcohol for home consumption, nor will I be eating carbs.
> I aim to get to 79kg or body fat from 20% to below 17% by the end of August (I may start weight training, in which case kg is a less important target). I will keep recording and posting on the forum, as this is a great motivator.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 18013
> 
> View attachment 18012
> 
> 
> View attachment 18011


Well done and a deserved celebration. You do realise that 42-47mmol/mol is prediabetic so you should be aiming for below 42mmol/mol. Hopefully that will be what your next test will show.


----------



## Weekender

Leadinglights said:


> Well done and a deserved celebration. You do realise that 42-47mmol/mol is prediabetic so you should be aiming for below 42mmol/mol. Hopefully that will be what your next test will show.


I hope so. Thanks


----------



## mage 1

Well done I am sure your next Hba1c will come back good


----------



## Weekender

Tuesday Week 9 Results

This week has been without any meal replacement shakes. Today I go to get my HBa1c test and will post the results (assuming they aren't lost again) as soon as I get them. 

The big issue is the return of my rival and Nemesis, *Beer* 



I need to get tough with myself on this. Beer nights results in some head scratching weight gains, 2.4Kg being the highest. I'm with @Drummer on the reality of high fluctuations.  Of course after 8 pints the fridge raid is inevitable, so it's not just the beer

This started with a _"8 weeks done 15Kg achieved lets celebrate"_, followed by a '_got the job I applied for_' celebrate then a 't_his job isn't what I expected, I quit_' sorrow drown. The usual addict's justification nonsense. Once I had the data that demonstrated my weight yo-yo'd and I could lose the beer weight gains, the demon was out of the bottle. 'This is the new normal' argued the beer demon.
Well. How about NO! beer demon. I will fight. I am stronger than you.

DIET
In terms of diet, I am not eating bread, potatoes or rice etc. Plenty of veg and salad with chicken etc.
One staple I like is a 'quesadilla' fry up of onion, garlic, chilli, black beans, (frozen: spinach, peppers, sweet corn)
I make a batch to keep in the fridge and used to add this to tortilla wrap cooked on a griddle pan with chicken and cheese.
Unfortunately the tortilla wraps are 270 calories (!) So they went in the bin. 

I've been frying the mix in flour as patties, and they make a great replacement for hash browns. Very flavoursome breakfast with ham and eggs.

The other welcome addition is the hot air popcorn maker. 1oz / 30g of air popped kernels is about 100 calories and a large bowl full.  It's a whole grain, has some nutrients and plenty of fibre, and is handy substitute for worse TV snacks.

I also pulverise a pear, carrots, a spoon of seed mix, ginger and berries (next door has supplied a kilo of garden blackcurrants) with some water in a blender - which makes a fibrous pint between meals

BOWEL
Movements are starting to return to normal (I should hope so given the above!), but it's a slow process. I've concluded that meal replacement shakes are 'industrial' and have a detrimental effect on gut health, even with a couple of plates of salad and veg everyday

Graph Time

Weekly number are a bit weird due beer night fluctuations between weeks


Blood pressure trending up (normal food and beer nights)



Fasting Blood Sugars are less volatile (5 point something) now I wash my hands  Thanks @travellor
Interestingly the levels are not effected by beer night, but I won't be collecting more data on this phenomenon !!


----------



## Drummer

Some things to look out for if your progress slows - your 30 gm of popcorn will be 18 gm of carbs.
I avoid sweetcorn as it is a grain, likewise covering anything in flour doesn't happen for me - I found that beans seem to have about 70 percent more carbs than listed, judging by my reaction to them.
Tortilla wraps - I don't know what that is, but it might be high carb, and I expect a hash brown would be too (I've never eaten one) so finding lower carb options is be a good idea - I find it isn't the calories which count. 
A pear, plus a carrot and berries might be rather high carb, and particularly after blending, as that releases all the cell contents for easy digestion.
I realise that my approach to lowering blood glucose is different from yours, but I find that targeting carbs is very effective for me and it might be useful to you in future.


----------



## travellor

Drummer said:


> Some things to look out for if your progress slows - your 30 gm of popcorn will be 18 gm of carbs.
> I avoid sweetcorn as it is a grain, likewise covering anything in flour doesn't happen for me - I found that beans seem to have about 70 percent more carbs than listed, judging by my reaction to them.
> Tortilla wraps - I don't know what that is, but it might be high carb, and I expect a hash brown would be too (I've never eaten one) so finding lower carb options is be a good idea - I find it isn't the calories which count.
> A pear, plus a carrot and berries might be rather high carb, and particularly after blending, as that releases all the cell contents for easy digestion.
> I realise that my approach to lowering blood glucose is different from yours, but I find that targeting carbs is very effective for me and it might be useful to you in future.


Well, hopefully, if like me, the Newcastle diet has reversed the diabetes, it won't be any issue at all.


----------



## Drummer

travellor said:


> Well, hopefully, if like me, the Newcastle diet has reversed the diabetes, it won't be any issue at all.


My carb counting has also resulted in remission.


----------



## travellor

Drummer said:


> My carb counting has also resulted in remission.


Technically you are diet controlled, or have you done a glucose tolerance test to confirm you can now process carbs in the same way as a none diabetic?


----------



## Weekender

Drummer said:


> My carb counting has also resulted in remission.


Well I'm hoping the 15% weight loss has fixed my glucose tolerance, so that I can just 'eat less' and be non-diabetic. The 'low carb' lifestyle isn't something I'm familiar with. I'm going to watch this :Dr David Unwin: Low carb is not just about diabetes and see what I learn. " liver function, measured via a liver damage marker called GGT, improved rapidly and remarkably in his patients that saw success with the low carb lifestyle" so there maybe a carb chicken before the fatty liver egg . . .


----------



## travellor

Weekender said:


> Well I'm hoping the 15% weight loss has fixed my glucose tolerance, so that I can just 'eat less' and be non-diabetic. The 'low carb' lifestyle isn't something I'm familiar with. I'm going to watch this :Dr David Unwin: Low carb is not just about diabetes and see what I learn. " liver function, measured via a liver damage marker called GGT, improved rapidly and remarkably in his patients that saw success with the low carb lifestyle" so there maybe a carb chicken before the fatty liver egg . . .


Do you have liver enzymes as part of your blood tests?


----------



## Weekender

Weekender said:


> Well I'm hoping the 15% weight loss has fixed my glucose tolerance, so that I can just 'eat less' and be non-diabetic. The 'low carb' lifestyle isn't something I'm familiar with. I'm going to watch this :Dr David Unwin: Low carb is not just about diabetes and see what I learn. " liver function, measured via a liver damage marker called GGT, improved rapidly and remarkably in his patients that saw success with the low carb lifestyle" so there maybe a carb chicken before the fatty liver egg . . .



No, @Drummer the tests didn't include liver function etc - now I wish it did and hope to take my GP on this journey.

So, a lot of new information. Eliminate starchy carbs / excess glucose,  reduce insulin forcing triglycerides into the liver (and pancreas).
Low carb diet improved Gamma GT levels (GGT or Gamma-Glutamyl Transpeptidase) - a good biomarker for detecting liver disease such as non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD)
The decrease in GGT actually preceded things like weight loss and HbA1c reduction.
So low carb is generally a good thing  - improvements in HbA1c, total cholesterol, HDL cholesterol, cholesterol ratio, triglycerides, weight, blood pressure and GGT

I'm sold on the need to understand carbs and avoid high glycaemic index (GI) foods.

I am holding out for the possibility that following stripping ectopic fat from the pancreas and liver ones insulin sensitivity is reset and one can eat a sensible diet and maintain homeostasis.

I'm reminded that humans have evolved to produce, for example, salivary amylase, a glucose-polymer cleavage enzyme that is produced by the salivary glands that digests starch into smaller molecules, ultimately yielding maltose, which in turn is cleaved into two glucose molecules by maltase

So I'm currently agnostic about 'avoid all carbs' - maybe, if I had more confidence in my blood glucose monitor and some liver (GGT) statistics I might be converted. 

Interesting comparison between sweet acorn and pop corn on the this link:





						Healthfully
					

Find your way to better health.




					healthfully.com


----------



## Weekender

Week 10 results

The scores on the doors, HbA1c results from last Tuesday were 30


So that's the great news, the diet worked.
Fasting Blood sugars are pretty good to



However, I am pigging out on snacks late evening, and have had a few sessions on the beer



I had got down to 82.2 Kg on route to my target 79, but am now 84.2 Kg
My body fat% 19.6, and my app states normal is 17, I calculate I should achieve this at about 79Kg



I was losing the weight gains pretty quickly, but this 'recovery' seems to have stopped. 
Things are a very stressful at home, I'm applying for jobs and Lynne (Mrs Weekender) has sciatica and is in screaming pain. Last night was a 'sod this I'm getting drunk' 
More excuses.

I hope I have a more positive week to report on next Tuesday


----------



## Weekender

*Lesson 1 - avoid snacks*
Right, so some good news. Last night I resisted the late night snack, had a pint of water and went to bed earlier (I lost a 1.05 Kg)
It's worth noting that after 10 weeks on the low calorie diet, I don't feel hungry or get the food cravings I used to have when I was overweight
@Haggied
This is worth bearing in mind for people embarking on the journey, here's a link to a study:
Link: We have observed a significantly different postprandial leptin/ghrelin ratio in normal body weight and overweight/obese men

*Lesson 2 - *exercise will *not* help you lose weight. 

Most people I talk to about this, really won't accept that if you are more active you don't burn more calories - so here are some links:

Exercise Myths
Herman Pontzer Video

The 'activity' portion of calories per day is less that half of the calories we metabolise, and the body maintains homeostasis at around 3000 calories a day 

I have a graph of my Fitbit data. You'll see that my active minutes vary week by week (the lines on the right hand scale) but the average calories per day (total energy expenditure) are pretty constant  (around 3000 a day  - the grey columns)

So forget the idea that you can 'earn' credits and eat more if you exercise.


----------



## Kreator

HbA1c at 30, that's an amazing result! - you should be proud!

I'd concur @Weekender that excercise whilst on the diet doesn't  help you lose more...Prof Roy Taylor said in his book not to try to more excercise as you'll (whether you want to or not) reward yourself with a treat because you think you've done so well - I've upped my step count this last week or so, and it's made 0 difference for me so far...

Once the diet is finished though, excercise should help to to keep toned and keep you fitter all round...

Good job @Weekender, If my HbA1c was 30, I'd be blown away!


----------



## Weekender

Cheers @Kreator . I am pleased, but to be honest it was such a quick turn around (9 weeks) from diagnosis (49) to 30 I haven't really had time to process it all. I'm concerned in case the changes I made unravel and I end up back where I was.
I'm thinking about a new target of going from 82.5Kg to 78Kg over 10 weeks. This might help me anchor the new behaviours.


----------



## Kreator

Weekender said:


> Cheers @Kreator . I am pleased, but to be honest it was such a quick turn around (9 weeks) from diagnosis (49) to 30 I haven't really had time to process it all. I'm concerned in case the changes I made unravel and I end up back where I was.
> I'm thinking about a new target of going from 82.5Kg to 78Kg over 10 weeks. This might help me anchor the new behaviours.


Yep, I hear you...I must admit, I realise myself this week that my eating habits must change for good - it's not just 12 weeks, it's the rest of our lives...it can be hard at times, and this week I'm also finding it tough - what to eat, what not to eat etc...keep in there!


----------



## travellor

I found the benefit of doing this particular diet avoiding food, is that it does reset your body, and rest you mentally.
When I looked initially, I couldn't believe how many people claimed they would yoyo, how they cant stand being hungry, how they diet lets you carry on eating as much as you want to, and how you can just continually eat and snack when you do believe you are hungry. 
I am under no impression that I didn't get fat by anything else then pushing food into my face.
That was the attitude I wanted to change. 
It did work.
I lost my (very) sweet tooth.
I realised a lot of my eating was at the wrong time, out of comfort, out of boredom, and obviously that had all stopped anyway.
So, when you get a blank canvas, you can rewrite it how you want to, not just tweak previous habits and hope it lasts.


----------



## Weekender

You are right @travellor 
I definitely don't 'feel hungry' since I lost 18Kg. 

There is something in this ghrelin : leptin ratio I discussed above , and Resistance at the brain receptors for leptin and insulin has been associated with increased feeding, obesity and cognitive impairments

So all in all it's all good news, lose weight and you stop eating like a fool


----------



## Kreator

@travellor, indeed, this week for me is that blank canvas, and I've been wondering what to do with it! - I must say, I'm not hungry either! - I feel so full after eating a 400 Calorie meal now, I don't want anything else after it...

I guess what to do with it is just that - don't eat too much and enjoy what you do eat!

@Weekender, I'll read the ghrelin : leptin ratio article shortly...  

There's so many valid points to be taken from this forum!


----------



## Kreator

Weekender said:


> *Lesson 2 - *exercise will *not* help you lose weight.


Ok, so - yep this I still stand by, however...what I found this week is that if I do maybe 30 minutes of fairly rapid walking (not out of breath but heavier breathing) my Blood Sugar levels dropped...stands to reason really, as that's what you burn when doing exercise...Glucose! - seems silly how I didn't realise this before, but after my meal on Saturday that's exactly what happenned - 5.8 - 2 hours after dinner and 4.1 after walking my butt off for 30 mins...

So while exercise may not be for losing weight it certainly seems to have other benefits....if nothing else, it made me feel better...


----------



## Weekender

Kreator said:


> Ok, so - yep this I still stand by, however...what I found this week is that if I do maybe 30 minutes of fairly rapid walking (not out of breath but heavier breathing) my Blood Sugar levels dropped...stands to reason really, as that's what you burn when doing exercise...Glucose! - seems silly how I didn't realise this before, but after my meal on Saturday that's exactly what happenned - 5.8 - 2 hours after dinner and 4.1 after walking my butt off for 30 mins...
> 
> So while exercise may not be for losing weight it certainly seems to have other benefits....if nothing else, it made me feel better...


Hi @Kreator
I'm exercising like a fool. The benefits are huge. I'm sure you're right about blood sugars, footballers etc always pack in the carbs (pasta etc) before a match, and I think refuel afterwards.
But the number of exceptionally overweight blokes I see cycling about in Day-Glo lycra and matching booties is increasing all the time. My next door neighbour is one. Just bought a road bike and an orange lycra costume.
I noticed he was noshing a packet of cocolate HobNob biscuits in his car. 94 Kcal per biscuit . 1302 Kcal in a packet.
Cycling at a moderate speed of 12 to 13.9 miles per hour will cause a 155-pound person to burn 298 calories in 30 minutes.
I'm down on these types as they come whizzing down the coastal path when I'm walking the dog. 18 stone at 10 mph is a lot of inertia.
Blob Knobs.
Rant over 
But yes exercise is great, I'm finding my knees are much happier when I jog now I'm 18kg lighter.
I like to lift a large bucket  of water and say to myself I was carrying that much around.
Plus, I think if you exercise whilst on the VLCD you are more likely to burn fat than lose lean body mass. I will look out the link tomorrow.


----------



## Kreator

Ha ha! - yep, lol you wouldn't catch me in any sort of Lycra lol - orange or otherwise!

Yep was going to say VLCD is not for exercising - it's too exhausting and has little benefit... - But once you've completed the VLCD, for me at least, feels good to move about a bit...not while eating a HobNob biscuit either!


----------



## travellor

Kreator said:


> Ha ha! - yep, lol you wouldn't catch me in any sort of Lycra lol - orange or otherwise!
> 
> Yep was going to say VLCD is not for exercising - it's too exhausting and has little benefit... - But once you've completed the VLCD, for me at least, feels good to move about a bit...not while eating a HobNob biscuit either!


I go both high impact and low impact.
I aim to triple my resting heartbeat,then try to keep between the norm of 60 and double.
I did exercise on the Newcastle diet, to try to lose fat rather than muscle.
But the lockdown did knock me back, I need to build muscle again now.


----------



## Weekender

Hi @travellor
You hooked with the maths 
CDC Link  text book maximum heart (used by Fitbit etc) is 220 minus your age - in my case 220-59= 161
I'm not drinking atm, and exercise a lot, so my resting heart is 54 - triple this 162, so, so far I'm nodding in agreement.
But, looking back over the year, pre diet during periods of alcohol, stress, or too much meat* my resting heart rate can go up to 64 (triple = 192)
Even this month when I'm lighter and fitter than ever I have peaked at 60 (180)

So I think the your 3 x resting rule is inadvisable as your max increases as your heart is under more strain.
Now 220 _minus_ your resting heart seems attractive, as it takes your heart health rather than age, which seems safer:
220-64=156
220-54=166

*Having watched the excellent documentary on the benefits of a plant based diet https://gamechangersmovie.com/
I went vegan for several weeks and my resting heart rate dropped to 51, add it does rise if I eat a lot of meat
Ambulatory blood pressure and heart rate responses to vegetarian meals

@Kreator
Here is the article Effects of Adding Exercise to a 16-Week Very Low-Calorie Diet in Obese, Insulin-Dependent Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus Patients
Take away 'The exercise group lost more fat mass.'
But it was a small trial.
My experience was I seemed to have loads of energy during weeks 2 and 3 of the VLCD and my activity levels increased, at the same time my blood ketones were very high.
The heart rate graph for June shows my resting heart rate dropping to 53 diet week 5 (w/c 23rd June), and at this stage I was struggling to move around - my metabolism had adjusted to the reduced calorie intake. And no detectable ketosis.

It's tempting to conclude that going in hard on VLCD for 2-3 weeks yields a good return, I lost 10Kg weeks 1-3 and 5.4 weeks 4-6, 2.4Kg weeks 7-9

This Guardian article states that Professor Taylor "emailed to say my progress was so good, I  could come off the liquid diet and go back to normal foods" after 11 days.
Type 2 diabetes and the diet that cured me
But the journalist was 59 and only 10st 7lb at 5ft 7in to start with
One size doesn't fit all. @abbiosbiston  - one for your your GP


----------



## grovesy

Kreator said:


> Ok, so - yep this I still stand by, however...what I found this week is that if I do maybe 30 minutes of fairly rapid walking (not out of breath but heavier breathing) my Blood Sugar levels dropped...stands to reason really, as that's what you burn when doing exercise...Glucose! - seems silly how I didn't realise this before, but after my meal on Saturday that's exactly what happenned - 5.8 - 2 hours after dinner and 4.1 after walking my butt off for 30 mins...
> 
> So while exercise may not be for losing weight it certainly seems to have other benefits....if nothing else, it made me feel better...


Even housework can lower the Glucose levels.


----------



## travellor

Weekender said:


> Hi @travellor
> You hooked with the maths
> CDC Link  text book maximum heart (used by Fitbit etc) is 220 minus your age - in my case 220-59= 161
> I'm not drinking atm, and exercise a lot, so my resting heart is 54 - triple this 162, so, so far I'm nodding in agreement.
> But, looking back over the year, pre diet during periods of alcohol, stress, or too much meat* my resting heart rate can go up to 64 (triple = 192)
> Even this month when I'm lighter and fitter than ever I have peaked at 60 (180)
> 
> So I think the your 3 x resting rule is inadvisable as your max increases as your heart is under more strain.
> Now 220 _minus_ your resting heart seems attractive, as it takes your heart health rather than age, which seems safer:
> 220-64=156
> 220-54=166
> 
> *Having watched the excellent documentary on the benefits of a plant based diet https://gamechangersmovie.com/
> I went vegan for several weeks and my resting heart rate dropped to 51, add it does rise if I eat a lot of meat
> Ambulatory blood pressure and heart rate responses to vegetarian meals
> 
> @Kreator
> Here is the article Effects of Adding Exercise to a 16-Week Very Low-Calorie Diet in Obese, Insulin-Dependent Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus Patients
> Take away 'The exercise group lost more fat mass.'
> But it was a small trial.
> My experience was I seemed to have loads of energy during weeks 2 and 3 of the VLCD and my activity levels increased, at the same time my blood ketones were very high.
> The heart rate graph for June shows my resting heart rate dropping to 53 diet week 5 (w/c 23rd June), and at this stage I was struggling to move around - my metabolism had adjusted to the reduced calorie intake. And no detectable ketosis.
> 
> It's tempting to conclude that going in hard on VLCD for 2-3 weeks yields a good return, I lost 10Kg weeks 1-3 and 5.4 weeks 4-6, 2.4Kg weeks 7-9
> 
> This Guardian article states that Professor Taylor "emailed to say my progress was so good, I  could come off the liquid diet and go back to normal foods" after 11 days.
> Type 2 diabetes and the diet that cured me
> But the journalist was 59 and only 10st 7lb at 5ft 7in to start with
> One size doesn't fit all. @abbiosbiston  - one for your your GP
> 
> 
> View attachment 18277View attachment 18278View attachment 18279


I wouldn't disagree.
I have told many people not to follow my exercise regime.
I agree with your comments, I lie to the machines about my age, or they go red
 and shut down on me.


----------



## Weekender

Week 11 Results

I thought I'd mention the value of keeping score, and posting on the forum. Also the benefit of setting 'red lines' for yourself and removing temptations.
Having a graph showing the impact of drinking beer (or food binging) and the time it takes to lose the weight gain, really clarifies the cost : benefit.
I've set a few new 'red lines' - buying beer in the weekly shop, and keeping beer in the fridge is now banned. As are crackers for cheese. If I want a beer I either have to walk to pub or drive to the shops.
The pub is 35 minutes walk away, I tend to to take Olly, our staffie. My data shows (unsurprisingly) that walking to and from the pub  (about 450 calories burned) results in a lower weight gain than beers in the garden. So in practice, the red line is now, if I want a beer I walk to the pub.
The previous 3 nights we have set off to the pub. My subconscious is obviously looking out for me, because the first time I got half way and realised I'd forgotten my wallet. Cancel the pub. The next night I'd forgotten Olly's lead and my mask, pub cancelled. Last night we headed off with all the necessary stuff, but got to the last turn and thought 'tomorrow is weekly results day, do you really want to blow the progress with beer?'. So we went to the river and came home.
This feels like an important milestone, I'm thinking before drinking. The 35 minutes between 'I feel like a beer' and getting to the pub gives my rational brain a chance to wrestle with the emotional beer drinking part. 


Anyway, to the data:
Down to 81.45Kg a loss of 19.85 kg or 3 stones and 1.76 pounds

Blood sugars trending well




I was discussing exercise last night, so the very active minutes last week is satisfying. Note the Week 11 average calories a day (3,048) is less that week 1's (3052) even though I was twice as active this week. 



*Why bother?*
I'm in remission and blood sugars are okay, so why am I still dieting etc? 
The Professor Taylor book and videos and the other stuff I've been reading has really changed the way I think about fat.
I like the analogy, that the food you eat is energy in the fridge (easy to access) and excess calories are turned to fat, which go in the freezer in case of emergency. 
We eat too much we have many freezers worth of stored energy. 
So I have now decided I don't need layers of body fat, and because I'm 59 and my skin is inelastic, the fat I do have left is sloshing about. I reckon another 3Kg worth. So I'll keep on


----------



## Weekender

Week 12 Results
Well, I'm very disappointed with myself this week. Thursday 12 cans / 7 Pints of IPA 1440 calories, Saturday 8 cans / 5 Pints of IPA 1264 calories. My daughter and her boyfriend are over tonight for a birthday BBQ, and I doubt I'll abstain tonight either.
So what has that done to the scores?
A net weight loss of 0.45Kg. I'm stamping down on the feeling that I'm 'getting away with it', as I don't want to be a drinker.
My morning blood sugars are surprisingly low on the hang over mornings, but creeping up the following days. 6.1 today :-(  I did have some air popped corn last night and overnight oats with berries.
My activity data was initially a surprise, as my active minutes were way down, even though it felt like an active week. Then I realised, I'm a lot more sedentary with a hang over (Doh!) -  I also tend to eat more crap hung over (Double doh!)
My average calories burned a day are trending lower - inevitable as I'm lighter, but hopefully this trend won't go too far as it will be hard to keep weight off.

To try and end on a more positive note, I am avoiding Carbs pretty well, the bread bin is now in the garage on route to the recycling centre. The diet is working in spite of alcohol sabotage.


----------



## Barfly

Weekender said:


> Week 12 Results
> Well, I'm very disappointed with myself this week. Thursday 12 cans / 7 Pints of IPA 1440 calories, Saturday 8 cans / 5 Pints of IPA 1264 calories. My daughter and her boyfriend are over tonight for a birthday BBQ, and I doubt I'll abstain tonight either.
> So what has that done to the scores?
> A net weight loss of 0.45Kg. I'm stamping down on the feeling that I'm 'getting away with it', as I don't want to be a drinker.
> My morning blood sugars are surprisingly low on the hang over mornings, but creeping up the following days. 6.1 today :-(  I did have some air popped corn last night and overnight oats with berries.
> My activity data was initially a surprise, as my active minutes were way down, even though it felt like an active week. Then I realised, I'm a lot more sedentary with a hang over (Doh!) -  I also tend to eat more crap hung over (Double doh!)
> My average calories burned a day are trending lower - inevitable as I'm lighter, but hopefully this trend won't go too far as it will be hard to keep weight off.
> 
> To try and end on a more positive note, I am avoiding Carbs pretty well, the bread bin is now in the garage on route to the recycling centre. The diet is working in spite of alcohol sabotage.
> 
> View attachment 18345
> View attachment 18344
> 
> View attachment 18346
> View attachment 18347


OH dear, and I thought I had troubles..... I really really miss my ales, not a pint for 6 weeks now.  Wine and whisky just doesn't do it for me, I can take them or leave them.   Your weight loss is impressive, I hope it isn't too much in a short time frame for your metabolism to be ok.
Keep up the good work and try to do what I do, instead of a pint on a hot day have a dry cider-not as good but an okay substitute.  On a cold day, a double whisky and a glass of water.


----------



## travellor

Barfly said:


> OH dear, and I thought I had troubles..... I really really miss my ales, not a pint for 6 weeks now.  Wine and whisky just doesn't do it for me, I can take them or leave them.   Your weight loss is impressive, I hope it isn't too much in a short time frame for your metabolism to be ok.
> Keep up the good work and try to do what I do, instead of a pint on a hot day have a dry cider-not as good but an okay substitute.  On a cold day, a double whisky and a glass of water.


There are the same calories in cider as beer unfortunately. 
About 7 calories a gram in alcohol.


----------



## Kreator

A trick might be to claw it back in other ways, and to recognise that this is normal life - we all have these times, it's normal and enjoyable!

I'm applying this principle - if you have too much one day (food or drink) either be more sensible the day before, do some exercise or a day or 2 after - this way it balances out and you don't have to feel any guilt

 You've done really well to lose nearly .5Kg in week as it is - enjoy and celebrate (lol maybe not with a beer though!)


----------



## Weekender

Thanks Kreator

Good advice - I gave all the unopen cans to my daughters boyfriend to take away and just joined this:

Sunday, September 19, 2021

So I've got a month to train - that should stop my beer drinking  
All for charidee - as Smashy and Nicey would say


----------



## Kreator

Weekender said:


> Thanks Kreator
> 
> Good advice - I gave all the unopen cans to my daughters boyfriend to take away and just joined this:
> View attachment 18367
> Sunday, September 19, 2021
> 
> So I've got a month to train - that should stop my beer drinking
> All for charidee - as Smashy and Nicey would say


That's excellent! - FYI, I'm finding I have more and more energy now by the day - it amazes me just how much, you've got this


----------



## Weekender

Week 13 & 14 Update




A report attached "Energy compensation and adiposity in humans"

Energy compensation is the concept that not all the energy spent when activity levels increase translates to additional energy spent that day. The attached study finds that in humans, energy compensation averages 28%, i.e., only 72% of the extra calories we spend on additional activity translates into extra calories burned that day. For people at the 90th percentile of BMI energy compensation increases to 49.2%
As we get fatter, our body might compensate more strongly for the calories burned during activity, making losing fat (through activity) progressively more difficult.


----------



## Kreator

Good job @Weekender, looks perfect


----------



## Weekender

Kreator said:


> Good job @Weekender, looks perfect


Thanks


----------



## Weekender

Week 15 Update

The very low calorie / Newcastle diet / diabetes remission has changed my life profoundly.
I have so much more energy I've decided to come out of retirement and back into a full time job - this would have seemed impossible 6 months ago. When I had diabetes I spent the day flopping about feeling knackered.

My weight this week has been unusually stable at around 80.5kg, regardless of what I've been / not been eating and drinking.
I was hoping to loose a couple more kg get my body fat  from 'High' to 'Standard' , but I doubt this is going to happen.
My 10 day average implies I'll be 80.6kg

I'm happy that my fasting blood sugars are normal. My next blood test is on 5th October
I'm eating normally, for example I will share an Indian takeaway, but avoid the naan, papadams and  rice.
I'm not carb free, I enjoy overnight oats, sweetcorn, root vegetables and am eating a lot of beans, chick peas and lentils etc but refined carbs are out


----------



## Kreator

Excellent news @Weekender ! I feel exactly the same as you do - it's a great feeling huh?!


----------



## mage 1

Well done


----------



## Weekender

Kreator said:


> Excellent news @Weekender ! I feel exactly the same as you do - it's a great feeling huh?!


It certainly is


----------



## Weekender

Week 16 Update

Again, this week my weight hasn't varied much, despite eating a lot more - particularly nuts.
I had a chicken dinner with roast potatoes, a few beers from time to time. My blood sugars didn't fluctuate much and I'm still losing weight. 
My family are now complaining I'm too scrawny and need to put weight on.



Before 100kg


Now 79Kg


----------



## Eddy Edson

Weekender said:


> My family are now complaining I'm too scrawny and need to put weight on.


People don't like it when people change.

Tell them to go eat a donut


----------



## mage 1

Well done you look good and you have Achieved what do you want to to achieve well done


----------



## Kreator

Weekender said:


> My family are now complaining I'm too scrawny and need to put weight on.


Yep, same here for me! - I'm gonna stay the same thanks! - well done @Weekender you look amazing mate


----------



## Weekender

*Getting over confident / being stupid*

Recently I have been thinking 'I have fixed this Type 2 Diabetes, I can eat and drink what I want from time to time.
Looking at my fasting blood sugar trend in the last 8 weeks, this is a big mistake.
I will exercise more thought and control. I don't want my October Hba1c to be back in the diabetic range :-(


----------



## Weekender

Weekly Update

Fasting blood sugars (FBS) are trending way too high. I suspect I have been too lax with the carbs.
I did my first 10km run on Sunday, and Mrs Weekender was advocating following the advice for runners to have carbs the night before and the two hours before the race, so I went along with it. But my FBS was too high days before and after this, so it's not the cause.

I've also gained 0.6kg on average over the week - I'm less fussed about this than the FBS

This week I will follow a strict zero carbs policy and see what happen. If this doesn't work I may have a few 800 calorie days.

I'm wondering if I've lost too much muscle and this is a cause . . .


----------



## Weekender

Week 18
Roy Taylor in The Guardian today

The worrying blood sugar trend carried on this week until I stopped evening snacking and eliminated all carbs a few days ago - I'm relieved to see this has worked.

It's a change of mind set, or the stories I tell myself.
I was thinking "I've lost all this weight, this *should* have fixed my insulin resistance so I *deserve *to be able to eat more normally"
I'm now thinking "You put in all this effort, if you relax now you will revert to having T2D, it would be a shame to have wasted all that effort, skip the potatoes / snacks"
In other words diabetes is for life.

I was influenced by a case study in a Professor Taylor presentation of some American who had  low blood sugar after eating a blueberry muffin. It can be "cured!" was my take away.

On this forum you will see a range a views @travellor "eating a normal healthy Mediterranean diet" is in the 'fixed it camp whilst @Drummer is very alert to the dangers of carbs.

It was hard to know what to think.

I've made sense of this by recognising that the Genetics of type 2 diabetes is very complex and will vary from person (family) to person. My readings demonstrate that I will need to be vigilant.

I've lost 20% of my body weight.  My waist is still 35" as a 21 year old it was 30"-32". Perhaps if I lost more weight I could eat a more normal diet, but I'm pretty skeletal at 80kg.

I'm very keen to avoid having to take drugs, but I'm not ruling anything out     




I've gained weight based on an average of the daily readings this week


But being more in control the last 2 days has brought weight down from 81.6 kg to 79.9kg


----------



## mage 1

I’m so glad you’re back on board and you know what needs to be done. I do understand how you feel  I also watched the video of Professor Taylor and the cure I think we all understand now that there is no pure cure  we just need to watch what we’re eating and drinking I am very happy with my diet and what I eat.  I know I’ve just got to continue with my diet to maintain my HbA1c  I would also like to get it a little bit lower so we’ll just wait And see . Well done with what you have active so far


----------



## Weekender

Thanks @mage 1 and good luck


----------



## travellor

I found it was the last few pounds that reversed mine. 
There is a personal fat threshold, and I think it also has some hysteresis.
I got down to a "comfortable" weight fairly slowly, but hadn't reversed my diabetes.
I used the Newcastle diet to go further, and did finish up quite ill looking, at a low BMI. 
Whether it was the speed of the loss, or the final weight loss clearing the internal fat I don't know, but I have put some weight back on, I no longer look like a skeleton, and it still seems ok.


----------



## Drummer

@Weekender - I saw my father's mother slowly deteriorate over a number of years when I was young - I know now that it was mostly down to my father and his father nor understanding the problems she had with carbs as a type two diabetic. 
That experience left a mark and if it was a case of living off frogspawn to get control - well, sorry frogs.
Happily it is possible for me to live on low carb very well and easily and to have results far better than I ever expected.


----------



## Weekender

travellor said:


> I found it was the last few pounds that reversed mine.
> There is a personal fat threshold, and I think it also has some hysteresis.
> I got down to a "comfortable" weight fairly slowly, but hadn't reversed my diabetes.
> I used the Newcastle diet to go further, and did finish up quite ill looking, at a low BMI.
> Whether it was the speed of the loss, or the final weight loss clearing the internal fat I don't know, but I have put some weight back on, I no longer look like a skeleton, and it still seems ok.


That's really good to know.
Coincidently, I've just been to the Gym and had a more accurate set of measurements done.
My muscle mass is low - particularly my legs, my visceral fat is 9 (1 = good, 12 = Worst), my belly fat is too high.
So more work to do. The instructor suggest I can get my basal metabolic rate up from 1900 to 2200 calories with resistance training.


Drummer said:


> @Weekender - I saw my father's mother slowly deteriorate over a number of years when I was young - I know now that it was mostly down to my father and his father nor understanding the problems she had with carbs as a type two diabetic.
> That experience left a mark and if it was a case of living off frogspawn to get control - well, sorry frogs.
> Happily it is possible for me to live on low carb very well and easily and to have results far better than I ever expected.


That would be searing experience. It makes perfect sense. You will have inherited their intolerance. Thank you for sharing.


----------



## travellor

Weekender said:


> That's really good to know.
> Coincidently, I've just been to the Gym and had a more accurate set of measurements done.
> My muscle mass is low - particularly my legs, my visceral fat is 9 (1 = good, 12 = Worst), my belly fat is too high.
> So more work to do. The instructor suggest I can get my basal metabolic rate up from 1900 to 2200 calories with resistance training.
> 
> That would be searing experience. It makes perfect sense. You will have inherited their intolerance. Thank you for sharing.


Yes, increase muscle mass, that uses glucose anyway, and concentrate on the belly fat.
I found the gym really improved my Hba1c, and diabetes overall.
Increasing your metabolic rate is a further win.


----------



## Weekender

Morning All  - Week 19

Got more of a grip on my diet, particularly evening TV snacking, and fasting blood sugars reduced. I'm getting an HbA1c test today, really curious to learn the result.
Weight has fluctuated quite a bit.
I started going to the gym to build muscle in order to stabilise my blood glucose.
My active minutes have dropped, I don't know if this is because I'm giving myself a pass because I'm going to the gym, or the fact it's been raining non-stop.


----------



## travellor

Weekender said:


> Morning All  - Week 19
> 
> Got more of a grip on my diet, particularly evening TV snacking, and fasting blood sugars reduced. I'm getting an HbA1c test today, really curious to learn the result.
> Weight has fluctuated quite a bit.
> I started going to the gym to build muscle in order to stabilise my blood glucose.
> My active minutes have dropped, I don't know if this is because I'm giving myself a pass because I'm going to the gym, or the fact it's been raining non-stop.
> View attachment 18728
> 
> 
> View attachment 18725
> View attachment 18726
> 
> View attachment 18727



The gym should make a good difference.
No question the improved muscle reduces BG, improves circulation, and helps overall.
I found the old adage "eat less, move more" was probably the best thing for me.


----------



## mage 1

Well done hope you’re next HbA1c goes well and is just as good as your last one


----------



## Kreator

Good job @Weekender - I knew you would work it out


----------



## Weekender

mage 1 said:


> Well done hope you’re next HbA1c goes well and is just as good as your last one


Thanks


----------



## Weekender

Kreator said:


> Good job @Weekender - I knew you would work it out


Cheers @Kreator


----------



## Weekender

Latest 5th Oct HBA1C = 31. CHUFFED


----------



## travellor

Weekender said:


> Latest 5th Oct HBA1C = 31. CHUFFED


Brilliant result!
Nailed it.
Congratulations.


----------



## Weekender

travellor said:


> Brilliant result!
> Nailed it.
> Congratulations.


Thanks, I was apprehensive. Steady as she goes


----------



## Deleted member 33972

Frightened  to bring up this subject. I noticed my lower jawline had some deep linesfrom the amount I’ve  already lost.  I’m terrified of loose skin with a bigger loss. When I was at  the actual slimming club there was a young man getting  surgery  for his Moobs  but think he got scared and  put  the weight back on again.  I’m sure no one will give me surgery at my age and the skin wont just disappear like when I was younger and will just have to live with it.   Change of subject . So much has happened last few  weeks, worst of all next door neighbour dying and funeral tomorrow. I’ve gone off plan and after binging on sweet stuff I’m finding it difficult to get back off them again. Hope everyone is doing well.


----------



## Deleted member 33972

I’ve just realised!  is there an  Oviva  and a weight loss group? I   wondered  where everyone had gone and  why missed all these posts.


----------



## Weekender

jeanettem1 said:


> Frightened  to bring up this subject. I noticed my lower jawline had some deep linesfrom the amount I’ve  already lost.  I’m terrified of loose skin with a bigger loss. When I was at  the actual slimming club there was a young man getting  surgery  for his Moobs  but think he got scared and  put  the weight back on again.  I’m sure no one will give me surgery at my age and the skin wont just disappear like when I was younger and will just have to live with it.   Change of subject . So much has happened last few  weeks, worst of all next door neighbour dying and funeral tomorrow. I’ve gone off plan and after binging on sweet stuff I’m finding it difficult to get back off them again. Hope everyone is doing well.


I'm sorry to read that it's a difficult period for you. Try and be compassionate towards yourself and recognise we all go off plan, especially when there are set backs, negative things happening and stress. We all wired differently (probably genetic) and have weaknesses for different things, sweet stuff, alcohol, gambling etc etc.
I went through a period of being horrified by my wrinkly neck. I'm not sure if it improved or that I've just stopped looking at it . . . hang on, I'll check  . . ., yes it _has_ improved. The skin loses it's elasticity as we get older, but it still tightens up when you lose weight - just a lot more slowly than we'd like. The good news is, we are going into winter, so we can cover up. Your skin should have tightened up, and the lines gone by the time the daffodils are out.


----------



## Deleted member 33972

Weekender said:


> I'm sorry to read that it's a difficult period for you. Try and be compassionate towards yourself and recognise we all go off plan, especially when there are set backs, negative things happening and stress. We all wired differently (probably genetic) and have weaknesses for different things, sweet stuff, alcohol, gambling etc etc.
> I went through a period of being horrified by my wrinkly neck. I'm not sure if it improved or that I've just stopped looking at it . . . hang on, I'll check  . . ., yes it _has_ improved. The skin loses it's elasticity as we get older, but it still tightens up when you lose weight - just a lot more slowly than we'd like. The good news is, we are going into winter, so we can cover up. Your skin should have tightened up, and the lines gone by the time the daffodils are out.


That‘s funny. You made me laugh.  Yes  just stop looking lol  I’ve been good today. Just waiting on dinner cooking. Ty for your reply. You’re age. I’ve got years on you and know about losing skin elasticity. loose skin is a big issue in weight loss groups. As long as I’m not pushing up the daffodils lol


----------



## Deleted member 33972

@Weekender . You and I were diagnosed around the same time. 5 th June I got the results but were taken earlier than that, for me and still 22 lbs weight loss much more to go. 9.97 kgs I prefer empirical to metric with some things. I’ve put my SW data on photo. Mine is just  simple  with an option to do speed and  protein which is a polite way of saying Keto  I  don’t  want the rabbit pellets again so I’m not doing it and my  BG is doing  ok when  I behave. I had lost 10% of my body weight but lost it last week so will get it back this week all going well.


----------



## Drummer

@Weekender I have noticed how much my skin has improved over the almost 5 years of low carbing, and despite losing weight I have none of the skin flaps or wrinkles - I even get my bus pass checked when there is a new driver on the route. I must be doing something right.


----------



## Weekender

jeanettem1 said:


> @Weekender . You and I were diagnosed around the same time. 5 th June I got the results but were taken earlier than that, for me and still 22 lbs weight loss much more to go. 9.97 kgs I prefer empirical to metric with some things. I’ve put my SW data on photo. Mine is just  simple  with an option to do speed and  protein which is a polite way of saying Keto  I  don’t  want the rabbit pellets again so I’m not doing it and my  BG is doing  ok when  I behave. I had lost 10% of my body weight but lost it last week so will get it back this week all going well.


You're doing a good job. I'm  starting to realise I've got to keep disciplined. I considered doing a week on the VLCD shakes, but like you, I don't fancy the rabbit pellets.
Winter, more time in front of the TV will be a challenge. I've got to get on top of my TV snacking habbit


----------



## Deleted member 33972

Weekender said:


> You're doing a good job. I'm  starting to realise I've got to keep disciplined. I considered doing a week on the VLCD shakes, but like you, I don't fancy the rabbit pellets.
> Winter, more time in front of the TV will be a challenge. I've got to get on top of my TV snacking habbit


I do options hot chocolate in the evening 9 g of carb. Also muller lite yogurts with chocolate sprinkles  6.2 grams of carbs. I have some grapes, I know,but they help my chronic constipation. I can’t drink too much options as I would be up all night peeing.I’ve realised my carbs aren’t too high. In a day I have some potatoes. Peel 6 but  cook 2 lol I would eat the lot but by the time I’ve peeled  them I’ve calmed down about how many I’m getting in reality. I have 2 small slice of wholemeal bread. You could have that in the evening but it might be better to have it early. Chicken drumsticks are a good snack also and carb free, cooked meat slices, cheese triangles low-fat if you’re not doing low fat it’s still ok. Hope this helps.  I just realised there’s 12.4 grams of sugar ( 4 teaspoons) in a muller lite yogurt. Need to stop them and very tasty as well. Will finish what I have in the fridge then stop! Guess it’s Greek yogurt in the evening With some fruit. Don’t take strawberries at night as they’re diuretic


----------



## Drummer

Weekender said:


> You're doing a good job. I'm  starting to realise I've got to keep disciplined. I considered doing a week on the VLCD shakes, but like you, I don't fancy the rabbit pellets.
> Winter, more time in front of the TV will be a challenge. I've got to get on top of my TV snacking habbit


There is always bubble and squeak made with swede rather than potato, beat in some eggs mix in veges, cook in a frying pan and then put it under the grill - if you aren't cooking bacon to eat with it, add cheese on top and don't get the grill too hot.
Or there is cauliflower, almost cooked, into a warm dish, cover with cream cheese sprinkle on herb or spice, cover with grated hard cheese and then bake until lightly brown and melting.
Lots of other options are available on a low carb diet, all delicious and all going to lower BG and weight, with any luck. 
You do need to watch out for high carb foods or drinks - it isn't some sort of  magic. 
Eating consistently low carb can be quite astonishingly effective, but some of the things I read make me concerned. The information is often right there on the full information panel - it must come as a nasty shock for some to realise just how carb heavy some 'healthy' foods are.


----------



## Deleted member 33972

There’s also egg muffins with added peppers and veg . I don’t like them but a big hit with people


----------



## travellor

Weekender said:


> You're doing a good job. I'm  starting to realise I've got to keep disciplined. I considered doing a week on the VLCD shakes, but like you, I don't fancy the rabbit pellets.
> Winter, more time in front of the TV will be a challenge. I've got to get on top of my TV snacking habbit


And another Newcastle diet low calorie thread gets the bacon egg and cheese for a quick snack between meals treatment..............


----------



## Drummer

travellor said:


> And another Newcastle diet low calorie thread gets the bacon egg and cheese for a quick snack between meals treatment..............


Only as an alternative to the chocolate drink, potatoes, grapes, bread and Muller lite yoghurts.


----------



## travellor

Drummer said:


> Only as an alternative to the chocolate drink, potatoes, grapes, bread and Muller lite yoghurts.


What do calories matter?
Just bang a few thousand in on every snack.
It seems some low carbers don't actually understand what the Newcastle diet is.
Continuous snacks of bacon cheese and eggs doesn't work on it.
Please try to understand continuous as much as you want to until you are satiated eating does not work for everyone.
I chose , as do others, a route that doesn't mean we need to eat that, I'm not diet controlling my diabetes, I like chocolate drinks, potatoes, grapes, and not only Muller lite yoghurts, Muller rice are good too.


----------



## Deleted member 33972

Drummer said:


> Only as an alternative to the chocolate drink, potatoes, grapes, bread and Muller lite yoghurts.


I’m not on medication and it’s my choice what I eat! Are you starting again?


----------



## Drummer

travellor said:


> What do calories matter?
> Just bang a few thousand in on every snack.
> It seems some low carbers don't actually understand what the Newcastle diet is.
> Continuous snacks of bacon cheese and eggs don't work on it.
> Please try to understand continuous eating does not work for everyone.


What makes you think I ever advised anyone to snack continuously? 
I have always advised the exact opposite, and usually stick to it absolutely but I did eat between meals today - a single almond.
The Newcastle diet is not a new concept to me. The Cambridge diet man - Dr Howard came to the firm I worked for, Lyons, to the pilot plant where I worked in the old Symingtons food factory in Market Harborough and had the first trials of his Cambridge diet mixed and packaged - I did the storage testing to find out if it would last for the intended time. That was back in the 1970s.
These days I eat twice a day - at 12 hourly intervals. I don't publish the amounts I eat, as most people consume much greater volumes of food than I do. I don't seem to need them, but it would be dreadfully off-putting for many people.


----------



## Drummer

jeanettem1 said:


> I’m not on medication and it’s my choice what I eat! Are you starting again?


I am not on any medication either, and I am only advising on what I do and do not eat.


----------



## travellor

jeanettem1 said:


> I’m not on the Newcastle diet I’m not on medication and it’s not anyone’s business what I eat and how I do it! Read the diabetes website before you criticise people !


I think we are actually saying the same thing to be fair.


----------



## Deleted member 33972

travellor said:


> I think we are actually saying the same thing to be fair.


The post wasn’t for you sorry


----------



## travellor

jeanettem1 said:


> The post wasn’t for you sorry


No problem.
I'm happy to push back too.


----------



## Deleted member 33972

travellor said:


> No problem.
> I'm happy to push back too.


 Sent you a message


----------



## travellor

Drummer said:


> What makes you think I ever advised anyone to snack continuously?
> I have always advised the exact opposite, and usually stick to it absolutely but I did eat between meals today - a single almond.
> The Newcastle diet is not a new concept to me. The Cambridge diet man - Dr Howard came to the firm I worked for, Lyons, to the pilot plant where I worked in the old Symingtons food factory in Market Harborough and had the first trials of his Cambridge diet mixed and packaged - I did the storage testing to find out if it would last for the intended time. That was back in the 1970s.
> These days I eat twice a day - at 12 hourly intervals. I don't publish the amounts I eat, as most people consume much greater volumes of food than I do. I don't seem to need them, but it would be dreadfully off-putting for many people.


Glad you are getting the benefits of a low calorie diet as well then.
Just like Prof Taylor recommends, watch the calories, lose weight, it's all good.
This is definitely the thread you should be supporting, it's named the Newcastle diet, now matter how you do it.


----------



## Deleted member 33972

I’ve been reading the contents off slim fast and the amount of carbs in them are huge. some  as many  as 63 grams of carbs and sugars added also.


----------



## Drummer

travellor said:


> Glad you are getting the benefits of a low calorie diet as well then.
> Just like Prof Taylor recommends, watch the calories, lose weight, it's all good.
> This is definitely the thread you should be supporting, it's named the Newcastle diet, now matter how you do it.


I can assure you that I am not watching the calories, and I am not doing the Newcastle diet.


----------



## travellor

jeanettem1 said:


> I’ve been reading the contents off slim fast and the amount of carbs in them are huge. some  as many  as 63 grams of carbs and sugars added also.


This was addressed by someone on a low carb diet in a different thread, and he explains why that amount of carbs is fine, and is in fact strict low carb in it's own right.
Most people notice their BG drops very quickly when starting the Newcastle diet.
He also agrees calories of around 1500 to 2000 post diet are about right, which is also probably what I eat on average now, possibly more towards the 2000 end, as I am fairly active.

I can't comment of whether diabetes is cured, reversed, or put into remission, I just know I don't follow any strict diet now with regards to any carb limit though, even the 130g, I do prefer a Mediterranean diet, but I don't worry about eating out, or takeaways, all I do it eat to keep my weight fairly constant, although even that will drift up and down.



ianf0ster said:


> I would just like to point out that although @travellor promotes 'moderation', they actually used the 'Newcastle Diet' to get to the place they're in currently.
> The Newcastle Diet is much more extreme than 'Low Carb' can be (of course 'Low Carb' can also be as extreme as desired).
> Newcastle is an 800 Calories per day for 8 week regime. The meal replacement shakes consist of 600 calories , 46.4 % of which are carbohydrates , 32.5% of protein and 20.1% of fat.
> 
> This equals approx 75 gms of carbohydrates - which is well into the 'Low Carb' and not so far from the 'Ketogenic levels'.
> Yet they say that 1,500 to 2,000 calories including up to 130 gms of carbohydrates is exceedingly strict!
> 
> Perhaps some do better with meal replacement shakes, but to claim that Low Carb is excessive, unsustainable etc. when compared to Newcastle is just crazy!
> 
> Oh, and Newcastle doesn't claim to cure diabetes - just to put it into remission like Low Carb does. The success rates for the two methods are comparable with Low Carb having the edge by upt to 10% more remissions at the 2yr point.


----------



## Deleted member 33972

travellor said:


> This was addressed by someone on a low carb diet in a different thread, and he explains why that amount of carbs is fine, and is in fact strict low carb in it's own right.
> Most people notice their BG drops very quickly when starting the Newcastle diet.
> He also agrees calories of around 1500 to 2000 post diet are about right, which is also probably what I eat on average now, possibly more towards the 2000 end, as I am fairly active.
> 
> I can't comment of whether diabetes is cured, reversed, or put into remission, I just know I don't follow any strict diet now with regards to any carb limit though, even the 130g, I do prefer a Mediterranean diet, but I don't worry about eating out, or takeaways, all I do it eat to keep my weight fairly constant, although even that will drift up and down.


I’m registered for a sleep apnoea class and I think they will recommend shakes or bariatric surgery. Not for diabetes as they send you to Weightwatchers. I’m doing SlimmingWorld and it’s  bringing  my weight down and my BG  it was higher this morning. I had Batchelors  pasts last night and could have been that. Recommended as an almost free food on SW but May be not for me. I do like them. I’m hoping to get my weight down before the classes start and not have to do extreme ways of losing the weight.  I was at a funeral yesterday and really off plan last 2 weeks with one thing and another. I’m hoping BG settles down again. I’ve chatted with Iain before. I don’t count calories just eat  recommended food. They have an SP plan and it’s similar to Keto. Speed and protein. Vegetables and meat to bring weight down faster


----------



## Kreator

jeanettem1 said:


> I’ve just realised!  is there an  Oviva  and a weight loss group? I   wondered  where everyone had gone and  why missed all these posts.


Hi, there's lots of threads as a whole in the weight loss section - all are about weight loss, but each has a slightly different tweak to how to achieve that weight loss - some of us have had success with Low Calorie, some Low Carb, and some a mixture of things...the main thing is what works for you!


----------



## Kreator

Weekender said:


> You're doing a good job. I'm  starting to realise I've got to keep disciplined. I considered doing a week on the VLCD shakes, but like you, I don't fancy the rabbit pellets.
> Winter, more time in front of the TV will be a challenge. I've got to get on top of my TV snacking habbit


So for me, I have Roy Taylor's book in a prominent position that I see every day...

It's to remind me of where I was, what I've been through, and that I really don't want to be there again - my last 30 years has been a 'ah fek it moment' far too many times - of course it's fine to have one every now and again - that's normal! but the main thing for me is to not get off this train - I too have thought about 'how am I going to exercise when it's raining?' - I have a treadmill for gods sake! - dusty as it is, I'll get on it when it rains too!

Main thing is life happens, it's normal


----------



## Deleted member 33972

Going to watch some Nordic Noir! Usually brings me back to sanity lol booked a new movie for Friday evening The Last Duel. Starring Jodie Comer! (Killing Eve ) looks good.


----------



## Deleted member 33972

Kreator said:


> So for me, I have Roy Taylor's book in a prominent position that I see every day...
> 
> It's to remind me of where I was, what I've been through, and that I really don't want to be there again - my last 30 years has been a 'ah fek it moment' far too many times - of course it's fine to have one every now and again - that's normal! but the main thing for me is to not get off this train - I too have thought about 'how am I going to exercise when it's raining?' - I have a treadmill for gods sake! - dusty as it is, I'll get on it when it rains too!
> 
> Main thing is life happens, it's normal


I know 2 people who lost huge amounts of weight. One through the hospital another through slimming club and both  put it back on again. It’s all too easy to slip back again. I was always weight conscious  till 25 years ago and decided I wasn’t doing it anymore and ate what I wanted. It can take over or lives.


----------



## Weekender

Drummer said:


> There is always bubble and squeak made with swede rather than potato, beat in some eggs mix in veges, cook in a frying pan and then put it under the grill - if you aren't cooking bacon to eat with it, add cheese on top and don't get the grill too hot.
> Or there is cauliflower, almost cooked, into a warm dish, cover with cream cheese sprinkle on herb or spice, cover with grated hard cheese and then bake until lightly brown and melting.
> Lots of other options are available on a low carb diet, all delicious and all going to lower BG and weight, with any luck.
> You do need to watch out for high carb foods or drinks - it isn't some sort of  magic.
> Eating consistently low carb can be quite astonishingly effective, but some of the things I read make me concerned. The information is often right there on the full information panel - it must come as a nasty shock for some to realise just how carb heavy some 'healthy' foods are.


I do like bubble and squeak, in Wales they have '_Potch_' · 1large swede (rutabaga) · 4 medium size carrots · 2 turnips · 2 large potatoes · 1 parsnip · watercress (to taste) · parsley (to taste)  - You could skip the potatoes.

My staple is a black bean thing - we soak from dried , so whilst they have carbs it is resistant starch and are low GI.
I add onion, garlic, peppers, spinach, tomato (passata). I cook up a large batch and can have with ham and egg for brunch or whatever


----------



## Weekender

Right - it's Tuesday - results (and also Bin Night)
I hope everyone is doing okay and the shorter days aren't getting you down too much.

I saw the Diabetes Nurse and got the full results - I only really understand the HbA1c
I explained my concern that my fasting blood sugar finger tests were trending towards 6, She said between 5 and 7 was 'normal' which is at odds with it states on this site. 


I did a 4 week weight chart and was pleasantly surprised that despite the ups and downs. the trend is flat at 80.7kg - I'm hoping this is the new normal. I shall keep a weather eye on it.
Still avoiding sugary stuff, bread, rice and potatoes - I don't feel I'm missing out. 
The big spikes (up 1kg) are all beer related, but a few dry days sorts it out


----------



## Weekender

Happy Tuesday
Fasting Blood Sugars are still trending up. We're buying 1kg bags of hazelnuts, and I am troughing them in the evenings. Probably have to stop. 
I started work (desk based at home) 2 weeks ago. Sedentary hours increased a lot, inevitably :-(





*Hazelnuts per 100 g*​*Energy*2,629 kJ (628 kcal)*Carbohydrates*16.70 gSugars4.34 gDietary fiber9.7 g*Fat*60.75 g*Protein*14.95 g

Weight is trending up slightly


----------



## travellor

Weekender said:


> Happy Tuesday
> Fasting Blood Sugars are still trending up. We're buying 1kg bags of hazelnuts, and I am troughing them in the evenings. Probably have to stop.
> I started work (desk based at home) 2 weeks ago. Sedentary hours increased a lot, inevitably :-(
> 
> 
> View attachment 18935
> 
> 
> *Hazelnuts per 100 g*​*Energy*2,629 kJ (628 kcal)*Carbohydrates*16.70 gSugars4.34 gDietary fiber9.7 g*Fat*60.75 g*Protein*14.95 g
> 
> Weight is trending up slightly
> View attachment 18936


There are a lot of calories, nuts are high fat.
6280 calories per bag.


----------



## Kreator

travellor said:


> There are a lot of calories, nuts are high fat.
> 6280 calories per bag.


They are yep, however they also have good fats, so they are better than biscuits - I also have bags of nuts, but I only eat 20g at a time and only at select times (when I fancy a nibble!) this keeps the calories down to around 125 Calories at a time


----------



## travellor

Kreator said:


> They are yep, however they also have good fats, so they are better than biscuits - I also have bags of nuts, but I only eat 20g at a time and only at select times (when I fancy a nibble!) this keeps the calories down to around 125 Calories at a time


Do you need good fats?
A digestive biscuit has around half at 71 calories, and that's one of the worst biscuits, until you start on the chocolate hob-nobs.
Both will increase your weight on a maintenance diet though.


----------



## Kreator

travellor said:


> Both will increase your weight on a maintenance diet though.


Not if you eat mindfully...

I can also have a biscuit too, it's a choice - if I need the energy, I'll eat nuts, if I fancy a treat, I'll have a biscuit - I go bck to when I would have eaten jaffa cakes - more than likely a whole box! - one jaffa cake is 50 Cals which is fine - a whole box is where it starts to go wrong...

Fats from nuts can help a little in keeping your cholesterol in check too, whereas fats from biscuits won't...


----------



## Eddy Edson

Kreator said:


> Not if you eat mindfully...
> 
> I can also have a biscuit too, it's a choice - if I need the energy, I'll eat nuts, if I fancy a treat, I'll have a biscuit - I go bck to when I would have eaten jaffa cakes - more than likely a whole box! - one jaffa cake is 50 Cals which is fine - a whole box is where it starts to go wrong...
> 
> Fats from nuts can help a little in keeping your cholesterol in check too, whereas fats from biscuits won't...


Yep, unsaturated fats can reduce LDL. 

But watch out for peanuts - they actually have a high proportion of saturated fats & can have the opposite effect.  Obviously depending on how many you eat, in conjunction with what, etc etc etc.


----------



## Weekender

Kreator said:


> They are yep, however they also have good fats, so they are better than biscuits - I also have bags of nuts, but I only eat 20g at a time and only at select times (when I fancy a nibble!) this keeps the calories down to around 125 Calories at a time I've swapped back to popcorn. I know @Drummer was concerned about the carbs, but it is very low density


I hit 'post' too early  :-(   Well, respect @Kreator , I don't think I could leave the nuts after a mere 20g - that's less than half a pub packet!   . . . Popcorn - I've found it doesn't have an impact on my morning blood sugars, where as 100g of nuts does. I bought a hot air popcorn machine for my daughter Amazon Popcorn Machine and liked it so much I got myself one. I think it's a good investment (£19) as it keeps me away from worse options. Tog, our hamster gets the unpopped kernels and makes an entertaining fuss cracking them open


----------



## Weekender

Week 23 Results
Much more disciplined last week (fewer nuts and beer) and my blood sugars are improving. (I did have 6 cans of Stella last night, but I have the rest of this week to compensate)
A new TV snack is grated carrot with mixed seeds.

Unfortunately my new firm likes having meetings, and I'm having to spend most of the day on MS Teams :-(
My active minutes are suffering. I am still going to gym to do weights twice a week and an 8km jog on Sundays, but this isn't compensating for all the sedentary minutes. I guess this is the downside of working from home.

The gym has a Tanita Body Composition Analyser, and according to this, after one month I've swapped 2.6kg of fat for 2.9kg of muscle. This is implausible but still a nice motivator. I'm definitely going to try to stick with it - as long as I can resist the encroaching tide of meetings



_28-Sep_​_28-Oct_​_Change (Kg)__Weight_​81.2​81.6​_Muscle Mass_​63.1​78%​66.0​81%​2.90​_Body fat mass (BFM)_​14.8​18%​12.2​15%​-2.60​_Bone mass_​3.3​4%​3.4​4%​0.10​_BMI_​23.7​23.8​_Visceral Fat _​9​8​_Basal metabolic rate_​1903​1982​


----------



## mage 1

Well done


----------



## Weekender

mage 1 said:


> Well done


Thanks


----------



## Kreator

Weekender said:


> Thanks


Yep, sterling job!

Keep up the great work!


----------



## Weekender

Week 24
I hope everyone is managing, I think it's harder during the shorter days. 
A good week for weight and blood sugars. Active minutes still dropping as a result of my desk job and the rain, but so far it's not impacting on my weight. Perhaps the twice weekly weight workout is making the difference.
Steady as she goes.


----------



## mage 1

Well done you are doing amazing keep it up


----------



## Weekender

Week 25
I good week as I haven't had a beer since Friday 5th. So no more 1kg spikes.
Evening snacking in front of the TV is still the main problem, my will power collapses around 9pm. Cheese and crackers and/or nuts are still my weakness.
I did a 10k run (well, plodding jog - 70 minutes) on Sunday. so my "very active minutes" average is respectable, but day to day I'm a lot more inactive due to work, weather and short days.
All in all, I'm feeling like 'I've got this' - I might even consider splashing out on some trousers that fit  



BP SystBP DiaAverage of Weight KgKg Loss / WeekAverage of Fasting Blood SugarWeek 251167080.110.15.6


Row LabelsMins Fairly ActiveMins Very ActiveAverage of Calories
Burned per dayAverage of Activity Calories Burned per dayWeek 251422862,6471,169


----------



## mage 1

Well done I look forward to reading your updates I feel you have got this


----------



## Weekender

mage 1 said:


> Well done I look forward to reading your updates I feel you have got this


Thanks Mage 1


----------



## Weekender

Week 25
Anyone else finding the increase in food adverts as we approach xmas making the things a bit more of a challenge?

I had been enjoying some time off the beer, but my father-in-laws 80th party last Thursday popped that balloon.
Fitbit states I was only half as active (164 very active minutes)  as my rolling average (319) last week - I need to get out in the cold and rain a bit more.
I've been extra vigilant on snacks so my weight is constant (80.4kg)
Fasting Blood Sugar average 5.7


----------



## PGo

This is very encouraging to read. I am on week 3 of the Newcastle Diet and my FBG in the morning is still in 6s and 7s and even 8 an hour after waking. It’s close to normal the rest of the day though. Still sticking to it, to wait and see what happens!


----------



## mage 1

Weekender said:


> Week 25
> Anyone else finding the increase in food adverts as we approach xmas making the things a bit more of a challenge?
> 
> I had been enjoying some time off the beer, but my father-in-laws 80th party last Thursday popped that balloon.
> Fitbit states I was only half as active (164 very active minutes)  as my rolling average (319) last week - I need to get out in the cold and rain a bit more.
> I've been extra vigilant on snacks so my weight is constant (80.4kg)
> Fasting Blood Sugar average 5.7
> 
> View attachment 19213


----------



## mage 1

Weekender said:


> Week 25
> Anyone else finding the increase in food adverts as we approach xmas making the things a bit more of a challenge?
> 
> I had been enjoying some time off the beer, but my father-in-laws 80th party last Thursday popped that balloon.
> Fitbit states I was only half as active (164 very active minutes)  as my rolling average (319) last week - I need to get out in the cold and rain a bit more.
> I've been extra vigilant on snacks so my weight is constant (80.4kg)
> Fasting Blood Sugar average 5.7
> 
> View attachment 19213


----------



## Weekender

Week 27
I feel a bit apologetic that there is really nothing to report this week.
It seems my weight hovers around 80.5kg, fasting blood sugars around 5.7
I did my third monthly gym metrics today and was hoping for something interesting from this.
Nothing had changed.
I have been eating a bit more of the wrong things from time to time so I guess I should celebrate that my weight and sugars are stable.
I can't see myself increasing my efforts on diet and exercise as we go into December to be honest.


28-Sep28-OctChange (Kg)30-NovChange (Kg)Weight​81.2​81.6​81.1​Muscle Mass​63.1​78%​66.0​80.9%​2.90​66.2​81.6%​0.20​Body fat mass (BFM)​14.8​18%​12.2​15.0%​-2.60​11.5​14.2%​-0.70​Bone mass​3.3​4.1%​3.4​4.2%​0.10​3.4​4.2%​0.00​BMI​23.7​23.8​23.7​-0.10​Visceral Fat​9​8​8​0.00​Basal metabolic rate​1903​1982​1985​3.00​


----------



## Leadinglights

Fluctuations in weight of 0.2, 0.5 kg are only the equivalent of a cup of tea or a wee. I can never think of so little variation as real.


----------



## Weekender

Leadinglights said:


> Fluctuations in weight of 0.2, 0.5 kg are only the equivalent of a cup of tea or a wee. I can never think of so little variation as real.


I agree. It's all a bit tumbleweed.


----------



## Weekender

PGo said:


> This is very encouraging to read. I am on week 3 of the Newcastle Diet and my FBG in the morning is still in 6s and 7s and even 8 an hour after waking. It’s close to normal the rest of the day though. Still sticking to it, to wait and see what happens!


How are you getting on?


----------



## Weekender

I skipped the update last week. I've also skipped a few readings.
I think I've been a bit complacent as a result of going to the gym.
Weight gain _could _be added muscle. 
But I suspect it is more to with potatoes and inactivity.
Last night I looked at my activity minutes and calories and they are declining.
My weight is increasing.
So I went out for a jog in the rain and dark.
The power of keeping score


----------



## Weekender

Weekender said:


> I skipped the update last week. I've also skipped a few readings.
> I think I've been a bit complacent as a result of going to the gym.
> Weight gain _could _be added muscle.
> But I suspect it is more to with potatoes and inactivity.
> Last night I looked at my activity minutes and calories and they are declining.
> My weight is increasing.
> So I went out for a jog in the rain and dark.
> The power of keeping score
> 
> 
> View attachment 19425
> View attachment 19426


----------



## Weekender

Week 30 results

Blood sugars are fine, but weight is creeping up
I've addressed the reduction in activity, but this isn't making any difference.
It's lack of control on snacks. 
After Xmas I might have a few days on 800 calories or try the 5:2 or something

But for now, I'm taking it easy - have a great (sugar free) Christmas


----------



## Kreator

Weekender said:


> Blood sugars are fine, but weight is creeping up
> I've addressed the reduction in activity, but this isn't making any difference.
> It's lack of control on snacks.
> After Xmas I might have a few days on 800 calories or try the 5:2 or something
> 
> But for now, I'm taking it easy - have a great (sugar free) Christmas


So for me, I'm currently thinking I will relax things over the next few days, and will probably gain a little weight back - but then the following week to reign it in and go back to normal, or possibly a little less calories to pull it back - I'm thinking similar 5:2 for a couple of weeks just to pull it back, but lets see!

You're doing great, enjoy the next few days, and back to it in the new year!

Have a great xmas!


----------



## Mrs Mimoo

PGo said:


> This is very encouraging to read. I am on week 3 of the Newcastle Diet and my FBG in the morning is still in 6s and 7s and even 8 an hour after waking. It’s close to normal the rest of the day though. Still sticking to it, to wait and see what happens!


i'm on week 5 or 6 of Newcastle diet. I have lost 7.5 kg and it seems to be slowing. Guess i'm on the 'harder to lose' fat now. I won't give up though. Cant exercise as have tachycardia and no sight of seeing cardiology till late feb. You are doing well.


----------



## Weekender

Mrs Mimoo said:


> i'm on week 5 or 6 of Newcastle diet. I have lost 7.5 kg and it seems to be slowing. Guess i'm on the 'harder to lose' fat now. I won't give up though. Cant exercise as have tachycardia and no sight of seeing cardiology till late feb. You are doing well.


Hi, the weight loss does slow down, and I hit a plateau for a few weeks at week 6 which was demoralising. I wouldn't worry about exercise - in fact Prof Taylor's advice is "do not exercise during the diet". It just makes you hungrier / encourages snacking. One suggestion is to drink even more water, as this is needed to convert fat to the energy you need (lipolysis). The diet plan (attached) suggests an extra 4 pints a day, but I found drinking more than this seemed to help


----------



## Drummer

Weekender said:


> Week 30 results
> 
> Blood sugars are fine, but weight is creeping up
> I've addressed the reduction in activity, but this isn't making any difference.
> It's lack of control on snacks.
> After Xmas I might have a few days on 800 calories or try the 5:2 or something
> 
> But for now, I'm taking it easy - have a great (sugar free) Christmas
> 
> View attachment 19510
> View attachment 19511


This is what always happened to me when I was put onto diets by my GPs - I suspect it is pretty standard, as the diet itself is standard, not fitted to an individual's specific requirements for weight loss.


----------



## Weekender

Happy New Year!

Well Christmas holidays involved a bit of socialising (Covid permitting) and friends and family brought desserts and chocolate into the house - which illustrated that my will power isn't up to the task. So my weight is drifting up.

I have a cunning plan, which is a new rule: I can not have a beer until my weight is under 80.5kg  / in the Beer Zone for two days in one week. Seems easier than a dry January  or a weight target 

Despite a few lapses (Lindt LINDOR Maxi Ball Chocolate Truffles, half my brother-in-laws cheese cake, lots of beer) blood sugars seem okay 



I did a 'Year in Review' look at my FitBit data. Yes December activity is low, but much better than December 2020


----------



## travellor

Drummer said:


> This is what always happened to me when I was put onto diets by my GPs - I suspect it is pretty standard, as the diet itself is standard, not fitted to an individual's specific requirements for weight loss.



Can't argue with that.
If you were put onto a diet by your GP, but let the snacks creep back in, yes, the weight loss stops.


----------



## travellor

Weekender said:


> Week 30 results
> 
> Blood sugars are fine, but weight is creeping up
> I've addressed the reduction in activity, but this isn't making any difference.
> It's lack of control on snacks.
> After Xmas I might have a few days on 800 calories or try the 5:2 or something
> 
> But for now, I'm taking it easy - have a great (sugar free) Christmas



I just had a good Christmas, happily snacked away, and drank.
Back on the Newcastle diet now.
A few weeks excess followed buy a few weeks reduction works for me.


----------



## Weekender

travellor said:


> I just had a good Christmas, happily snacked away, and drank.
> Back on the Newcastle diet now.
> A few weeks excess followed buy a few weeks reduction works for me.


Hmm. Back on 800 calories a day? I suppose I should give this option serious consideration.  Are you able to carry on down the gym on 800?


----------



## travellor

Weekender said:


> Hmm. Back on 800 calories a day? I suppose I should give this option serious consideration.  Are you able to carry on down the gym on 800?



I found it a very easy diet to do.
And remarkably fast and efficient.
I've swapped the evening salad for a stew while it's winter this time, not summer.
I'm probably not hitting the full 800 calories, as I seem to have settled out at two shakes, and using veggies, no fat, no meat in the stew, so it's surprisingly filling.
I do intend to start putting quorn mince in eventually though.
Just keeping an eye on the nutrients and minerals.
I'm still keeping the gym up as well.
Aqua aerobics tonight as well.
In fact more, as that's part of the New Year Resolution.


----------



## Weekender

travellor said:


> I found it a very easy diet to do.
> And remarkably fast and efficient.
> I've swapped the evening salad for a stew while it's winter this time, not summer.
> I'm probably not hitting the full 800 calories, as I seem to have settled out at two shakes, and using veggies, no fat, no meat in the stew, so it's surprisingly filling.
> I do intend to start putting quorn mince in eventually though.
> Just keeping an eye on the nutrients and minerals.
> I'm still keeping the gym up as well.
> Aqua aerobics tonight as well.
> In fact more, as that's part of the New Year Resolution.


The nice thing about the shakes is you know that nutrients etc are all included. If I've not lost 0.75kg by next Tuesday I will take the plunge (81.7kg today) and do 2 weeks of shakes


----------



## travellor

Weekender said:


> The nice thing about the shakes is you know that nutrients etc are all included. If I've not lost 0.75kg by next Tuesday I will take the plunge (81.7kg today) and do 2 weeks of shakes



I found diabetes a wake up call more than anything.
I had an "enjoyable" lifestyle, but excessive.
Now I'm thinner, more muscular, eat less generally, and enjoy various sports.
So, so long as I keep the weight off, that can continue.

I can still enjoy "excesses" like anyone, but so long as I keep in shape now my lifestyle can continue.
So just playing catch up on lockdown and Christmas, sitting on the sofa too much, with the only exercise was walking to the fridge!


----------



## Drummer

travellor said:


> Can't argue with that.
> If you were put onto a diet by your GP, but let the snacks creep back in, yes, the weight loss stops.


I always followed the diet exactly as printed, but even the most severely low calorie ones gradually became ineffective as my metabolism slowed down. 
Now - after decades of being told to eat low calorie my energy levels drop if I don't eat twice a day. I still only require a small amount of food, but it must be at 12 hourly intervals.


----------



## travellor

Drummer said:


> I always followed the diet exactly as printed, but even the most severely low calorie ones gradually became ineffective as my metabolism slowed down.
> Now - after decades of being told to eat low calorie my energy levels drop if I don't eat twice a day. I still only require a small amount of food, but it must be at 12 hourly intervals.



We were on about snacks creeping in, you seemed to agree they did for you.
However, if you didn't mean that, no idea what you were agreeing with though.

Personally I just binged out over Christmas by choice, now it's time to pay the piper.
My metabolism will cope, it doesn't slow, it just reacts normally.
I can happily eat, over eat, or under eat any time of day.
Possibly the confusion comes from as people lose weight, their required calorie intake decreases?

When I was diagnosed, my calorie intake should have been around 2700 to maintain my (excess) weight.
As I have lost a lot, I now require around 2200 calories on a maintenance diet.

Possibly that's why you think everyone's metabolism slows?
It doesn't really, you simply need to continue to decrease calories as you lose weight.


----------



## Drummer

travellor said:


> We were on about snacks creeping in, you seemed to agree they did for you.
> However, if you didn't mean that, no idea what you were agreeing with though.
> 
> Personally I just binged out over Christmas by choice, now it's time to pay the piper.
> My metabolism will cope, it doesn't slow, it just reacts normally.
> I can happily eat, over eat, or under eat any time of day.
> Possibly the confusion comes from as people lose weight, their required calorie intake decreases?
> 
> When I was diagnosed, my calorie intake should have been around 2700 to maintain my (excess) weight.
> As I have lost a lot, I now require around 2200 calories on a maintenance diet.
> 
> Possibly that's why you think everyone's metabolism slows?
> It doesn't really, you simply need to continue to decrease calories as you lose weight.


No, I'm afraid that I never wrote anything of the kind. You must be misremembering - maybe someone else's post? 
I was given diet sheets for calorie counts under 1000 calories a day by one GP back in the 1970s - I kept fainting away at work whenever I tried to do anything strenuous.
The contestants on that American show - the Biggest Loser were monitored after their stint and they mostly showed reduced metabolic rates - and they said that was one reason for diets failing.


----------



## Eddy Edson

Drummer said:


> No, I'm afraid that I never wrote anything of the kind. You must be misremembering - maybe someone else's post?
> I was given diet sheets for calorie counts under 1000 calories a day by one GP back in the 1970s - I kept fainting away at work whenever I tried to do anything strenuous.
> The contestants on that American show - the Biggest Loser were monitored after their stint and they mostly showed reduced metabolic rates - and they said that was one reason for diets failing.


Kevin Hall who led that Biggest Loser study has this new reflection on the meaning of the results: 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1463548802103590914
It's really interesing!

The reduction in resting metabolic rate (RMR), beyond what would be expected from simply losing weight, seems to be linked to the amount of exercise.  Generally, participants who managed to sustain weight loss also did a lot of continuous exercise, and also showed the biggest reduction in RMR beyond expected levels.

This reduction actually now seems to be due to the exercise - building on Herman Pontzer's energy adapation work.

In other words, losing weight via dieting doesn't "unduly slow down the metabolism" as a lot of the commentary at the time suggested. It's actually exercise which slows it down, which might seem counter-intuitive.

(It's also not fully explained but certainly exercise generally leads to a reduction in chronic inflammation, and that must be a part of it.)

The big reason for weight regain after dieting isn't this reduction in RMR: generally participants with the biggest long-term reductions in RMR sustained the most weight loss. What does cause weight regain is the appetitie feed-back loop: generally your bod+brain want you to put the weight back on, and long term you may continue to feel as hungry as you did while you were losing the weight in the first place.

This is a grim scenario, but it's where exercise comes in to the picture: the extra calories burned from exercise can balance the excess calories eaten due to the persistent appetite effect. Without the exercise, weight stacks back on, not because of some fundamental slowing-down of the metabolism, but just for the boring old reason, more calories in than calories burned.



For me: I've sustained weight loss for 3 years now, and I think walking for ~2 hours a day has probably played a big part in that. (Hall's study showed participants sustaining weight loss long-term generally did ~90 min moderate exercise a day.)

Also: carbs have no special role in any of this; it's all just calories.











And everybody continued to eat as much as before (below), mregardless of activity levels and weight loss. The most active people had lower RMR and the same calorie intake, but the increase in activity balanced this out. The less active people had higher RMR and the same calorie intake, but not enough activity to balance things => weight regain.


----------



## travellor

Drummer said:


> No, I'm afraid that I never wrote anything of the kind. You must be misremembering - maybe someone else's post?
> I was given diet sheets for calorie counts under 1000 calories a day by one GP back in the 1970s - I kept fainting away at work whenever I tried to do anything strenuous.
> The contestants on that American show - the Biggest Loser were monitored after their stint and they mostly showed reduced metabolic rates - and they said that was one reason for diets failing.



It is literally what you wrote in post #201

Weekender - "It's lack of control on snacks"

You - "This is what always happened to me when I was put onto diets by my GPs"

Me as well, I chose to overeat over Christmas.

And certainly, as shown in the Biggest Loser study you refer to, exercise is certainly important in any lifestyle intervention, not just for diabetes, for any healthy life.
I'm happily on 600 to 800 calories now, and have still managed the gym and aqua aerobics.
To quote Kevin Hall - "They didn't "destroy their metabolism"!"

(Whether the aching legs will stop though..... These muscles haven't had this much exercise for months)


----------



## Weekender

'The Biggest Loser' study reinterpreted" was very interesting.
The observation in this study: : How strongly does appetite counter weight loss?

_We discovered that weight loss leads to a proportional increase in appetite resulting in eating above baseline by ~100 kcal/day per kg of lost weight – an amount more than 3-fold larger than the corresponding energy expenditure adaptations._

Is a bit demoralising, so it's good to know increased activity offsets this.
And  Biggest Loser participant had a 12% average weight loss after 6 years is not so bad 

Last night's food intake was not a good start to meeting my target, at this rate I'll be joining you on the shakes


----------



## travellor

Weekender said:


> 'The Biggest Loser' study reinterpreted" was very interesting.
> The observation in this study: : How strongly does appetite counter weight loss?
> 
> _We discovered that weight loss leads to a proportional increase in appetite resulting in eating above baseline by ~100 kcal/day per kg of lost weight – an amount more than 3-fold larger than the corresponding energy expenditure adaptations._
> 
> Is a bit demoralising, so it's good to know increased activity offsets this.
> And  Biggest Loser participant had a 12% average weight loss after 6 years is not so bad
> 
> Last night's food intake was not a good start to meeting my target, at this rate I'll be joining you on the shakes



I would say that's to be expected.
People get used to eating.
Unfortunately as weight goes down, so does the maintenance calorie requirements.
So, if I had gone back to eating what I ate at my heaviest, I'd be in a 500 calorie excess.

I consider that to be the beauty of the Newcastle diet, as opposed to the "eat until you are satiated" methodology of other diets.
The Newcastle diet gave me a break with food, so I could grasp the nettle, and work out a smaller diet that suited my new weight.
No clever method, simply the scales and a mirror.
Mainly involving a lot less donuts!
So my mindset changed, food is something I still enjoy, I still live to eat, not eat to live.
And having said that, time for a banana slimfast!


----------



## Drummer

travellor said:


> It is literally what you wrote in post #201
> 
> Weekender - "It's lack of control on snacks"
> 
> You - "This is what always happened to me when I was put onto diets by my GPs"
> 
> Me as well, I chose to overeat over Christmas.
> 
> And certainly, as shown in the Biggest Loser study you refer to, exercise is certainly important in any lifestyle intervention, not just for diabetes, for any healthy life.
> I'm happily on 600 to 800 calories now, and have still managed the gym and aqua aerobics.
> To quote Kevin Hall - "They didn't "destroy their metabolism"!"
> 
> (Whether the aching legs will stop though..... These muscles haven't had this much exercise for months)


Ah I see - I tried to edit Weekender's post but I think the charts got in the way - no - I was agreeing with the observation that increasing activity did not help restart weightloss, which was the line before the one you selected. 

I chose not to increase carbs at Christmas, but I tried to over eat, and found that I really did not want that amount of food on my plate. Some foods were not what I would have chosen but I caught Covid, the Omicron version I believe, so was isolating. There was chicken, beef, pork, a side of salmon, so it was not hard to give in and stay on plan.


----------



## travellor

Drummer said:


> Ah I see - I tried to edit Weekender's post but I think the charts got in the way - no - I was agreeing with the observation that increasing activity did not help restart weightloss, which was the line before the one you selected.
> 
> I chose not to increase carbs at Christmas, but I tried to over eat, and found that I really did not want that amount of food on my plate. Some foods were not what I would have chosen but I caught Covid, the Omicron version I believe, so was isolating. There was chicken, beef, pork, a side of salmon, so it was not hard to give in and stay on plan.



I think even your Biggest Loser story proves increasing activity certainly does benefit weight loss.
However each to their own interpretation of the posts Kevin Hall made.


----------



## Drummer

Sorry @travellor - the posts made by Kevin Hall appear to show that the participants in the biggest loser really did have lowered metabolic rates (that is what I wrote) - the further information included in this thread pointing out the further analysis that the greater the effort put into doing exercise, the slower the weightloss. 
Many people have tried to lose weight by exercising more and it seemed to work counter to expected, and this information seems to explain why.


----------



## Eddy Edson

Drummer said:


> - the further information included in this thread pointing out the further analysis that the greater the effort put into doing exercise, the slower the weightloss.


The study showed exactly the opposite of this.


----------



## travellor

Drummer said:


> Sorry @travellor - the posts made by Kevin Hall appear to show that the participants in the biggest loser really did have lowered metabolic rates (that is what I wrote) - the further information included in this thread pointing out the further analysis that the greater the effort put into doing exercise, the slower the weightloss.
> Many people have tried to lose weight by exercising more and it seemed to work counter to expected, and this information seems to explain why.



Kevin Hall would disagree, he did say people choose to misinterpret it, however, I think people can decide from Kevin's words above now.
Clearly you disagree with his own conclusions, yet still seem to quote him agreeing with you.


----------



## Drummer

But you wrote 'reduction' several times quite happily quoting the findings - I'm not naysaying what the findings were - you are.


----------



## travellor

Just tried the shakes with a homemade yoghurt.
I used to make it a while ago.
A combination of a pea based milk, and a soya based, and a probiotic fermented kefir to start if off.
It mixed ok with a banana slimfast, so it's going to become the morning drink now to see if if improves my gut flora in any way.


----------



## Weekender

travellor said:


> Just tried the shakes with a homemade yoghurt.
> I used to make it a while ago.
> A combination of a pea based milk, and a soya based, and a probiotic fermented kefir to start if off.
> It mixed ok with a banana slimfast, so it's going to become the morning drink now to see if if improves my gut flora in any way.


I'd be interested to learn what you think. I'm not a fan of Kimchi etc, but like the idea. I really enjoyed _I Contain Multitudes: The Microbes Within Us and a Grander View of Life  - by Ed Yong_


----------



## Weekender

Well, I didn't get below 80.5kg
The more accurate Gym scales (Tanita MC780MA) say I've added 3kg of fat :-(
I've ordered a week's supply of shakes, but Mrs W and my Personal Trainer are advising against a VLCD episode.
I will let you know
Blood sugars are constant at 5.6



VariableSepOctNovJanChangeWeight (kg)81.2081.6081.1083.10*2.00*Body fat mass (BFM) (kg)14.8012.2011.5014.50*3.00*Fat free mass (FFM) (kg)66.4069.4069.6068.60- 1.00Muscle mass (kg)63.1066.0066.2065.20- 1.00


----------



## Windy

@Weekender Can I ask you how you coped with the transition from the 800 calorie Newcastle bit of your diet to the bit afterwards? I'm nearly there, in 4 days, I'll be eating 1500 calories a day. Did/do you restrict your calories still? Was it difficult not getting lead astray by the extra food choices?
TIA, Sarah


----------



## travellor

Weekender said:


> I'd be interested to learn what you think. I'm not a fan of Kimchi etc, but like the idea. I really enjoyed _I Contain Multitudes: The Microbes Within Us and a Grander View of Life  - by Ed Yong_


Sorry, I missed this.
They taste ok.
I'm not a fan of sweet things anymore, so the yoghurt suited me.


----------



## Weekender

Windy said:


> @Weekender Can I ask you how you coped with the transition from the 800 calorie Newcastle bit of your diet to the bit afterwards? I'm nearly there, in 4 days, I'll be eating 1500 calories a day. Did/do you restrict your calories still? Was it difficult not getting lead astray by the extra food choices?
> TIA, Sarah



Hi Sarah
I was looking back over my old posts, to remember  - This one is covers the transition:

http://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/newcastle-diet.93831/post-1092214

I cut out carbs and snacked on popcorn, but my problem back then was I was still over fond of beer


----------



## Weekender

Weekender said:


> Hi Sarah
> I was looking back over my old posts, to remember  - This one is covers the transition:
> 
> http://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/newcastle-diet.93831/post-1092214
> 
> I cut out carbs and snacked on popcorn, but my problem back then was I was still over fond of beer


The link didn't work when I tried, I wrote this at the time :

DIET
In terms of diet, I am not eating bread, potatoes or rice etc. Plenty of veg and salad with chicken etc.
One staple I like is a 'quesadilla' fry up of onion, garlic, chilli, black beans, (frozen: spinach, peppers, sweet corn)
I make a batch to keep in the fridge and used to add this to tortilla wrap cooked on a griddle pan with chicken and cheese.
Unfortunately the tortilla wraps are 270 calories (!) So they went in the bin.

I've been frying the mix in flour as patties, and they make a great replacement for hash browns. Very flavoursome breakfast with ham and eggs.

The other welcome addition is the hot air popcorn maker. 1oz / 30g of air popped kernels is about 100 calories and a large bowl full. It's a whole grain, has some nutrients and plenty of fibre, and is handy substitute for worse TV snacks.

I also pulverise a pear, carrots, a spoon of seed mix, ginger and berries (next door has supplied a kilo of garden blackcurrants) with some water in a blender - which makes a fibrous pint between meals


----------



## Weekender

Went to cafe in Bristol last Tuesday and had a 'build your own salad'. The server was using her bare hands to pick the ingredients from the plastic boxes and mix in a bowl, so I assume this is why I wasn't able to keep any food down Thu-Sat.
So I lost 3kg. Interestingly my fasting blood sugars were very high during the illness (6.8-6.9). Any suggestions as to why?


----------



## Windy

Weekender said:


> Any suggestions as to why?


Illness can throw your blood sugar levels out. I wonder if your food poisoning threw your bloods out. Hope you're feeling better soon.


----------



## Leadinglights

Weekender said:


> Went to cafe in Bristol last Tuesday and had a 'build your own salad'. The server was using her bare hands to pick the ingredients from the plastic boxes and mix in a bowl, so I assume this is why I wasn't able to keep any food down Thu-Sat.
> So I lost 3kg. Interestingly my fasting blood sugars were very high during the illness (6.8-6.9). Any suggestions as to why?
> 
> View attachment 19849


I think that would warrant a call to environmental heath at the council.
Bit of a drastic way to lose weight.


----------



## Weekender

Latest update - I hope everyone is keeping well

After the food poisoning my weight yo-yo'd 1.5kg - I had hoped to retain some of the weight loss, I wasn't aware of eating more than usual but the 1.5kg snapped back on. More evidence in support of the self correcting metabolism, 
A good article in the Observer on this a couple of months ago 



I'm a bit concerned that my blood sugars are trending up  - I think I will ask for an HbA1c blood test next time I need to talk to my GP



Using the gym body composition scales, I still have some way to go to recover from the Xmas weight gain (83.5 kg)

_NB Weight with gym clothes _

In terms of exercise, my active minutes are a bit higher than this time last year, but I am burning ~ 500 calories a day less than I was when I was 15kg heavier


----------



## Windy

Weekender said:


> I'm a bit concerned that my blood sugars are trending up


Glad to hear you've got over your bad tummy.
Do you test on all meals, or just the ones that you're not sure about?
I realised I have introduced a sampling bias in my testing, as I don't test "safe" meals like omelette, but do on new foods which might give me higher BG readings.
This means my graph of pre and post meal BG is more likely to have higher reading than if I tested every meal.
I guess the fasting readings wouldn't be affected by that? Can you do a graph of them only and see if they have an upward trend line? Your graphs are far more elegant than mine which I do in Libre Office Calc (below). My trend line started rising when I went from 800 cals/day to 1500. Not sure what happened this morning to get a 6.3mmol/L


----------



## Weekender

Thanks Windy, you are doing great = keep it up. I only do one test, every morning before I eat. Sometimes before coffee, sometimes after, I would say I average 5.9, but have been getting more high sixes recently. I don't think I can improve on my diet, and lifestyle so if the HbA1c trend is poor I will consider taking medication.


----------



## Windy

Weekender said:


> Thanks Windy, you are doing great = keep it up. I only do one test, every morning before I eat. Sometimes before coffee, sometimes after, I would say I average 5.9, but have been getting more high sixes recently. I don't think I can improve on my diet, and lifestyle so if the HbA1c trend is poor I will consider taking medication.


Thanks Weekender, cheers for the encouragement.
Fingers crossed for you that it's just the tail end of your body recovering from Christmas and food poisoning. Sarah


----------



## travellor

Windy said:


> Glad to hear you've got over your bad tummy.
> Do you test on all meals, or just the ones that you're not sure about?
> I realised I have introduced a sampling bias in my testing, as I don't test "safe" meals like omelette, but do on new foods which might give me higher BG readings.
> This means my graph of pre and post meal BG is more likely to have higher reading than if I tested every meal.
> I guess the fasting readings wouldn't be affected by that? Can you do a graph of them only and see if they have an upward trend line? Your graphs are far more elegant than mine which I do in Libre Office Calc (below). My trend line started rising when I went from 800 cals/day to 1500. Not sure what happened this morning to get a 6.3mmol/LView attachment 20043


I used to do that.
Chase the highs.


----------



## KayAnne

Weekender said:


> Thanks Windy, you are doing great = keep it up. I only do one test, every morning before I eat. Sometimes before coffee, sometimes after, I would say I average 5.9, but have been getting more high sixes recently. I don't think I can improve on my diet, and lifestyle so if the HbA1c trend is poor I will consider taking medication.


Are you going through a bit of a stressful period at the minute Weekender? I find that my blood sugars are massively affected by stress no matter what I eat so this may be a cause for your recent high readings perhaps? 

I also want to add that your thread has been a massive help and source of wisdom to assist me starting out the Newcastle Diet this year so thank you!


----------



## Windy

KayAnne said:


> I also want to add that your thread has been a massive help and source of wisdom to assist me starting out the Newcastle Diet this year so thank you!


Me too - I really grateful for the quality information you've posted. It's kept me on the diet straight and narrow and given me hope that I can lose weight, as I've struggled to do that in the past and didn't think I'd be able to do 800 calories. Knowing that you and others have gave me the impetus to start and keep at it.


----------



## Kreator

@Weekender, keep in there buddy - remember why we're all doing this and keep strong - you can do it!


----------



## showmethenumbers

Hello everyone, thought I would share my story on this thread. This thread has been and still is a bit of an inspiration to me. Diagnosed with type 2 in Sep 2021 with a reading of 108. That seems quite high to me, [ can anyone tell me if that means it will take longer to get my BS under control.]

Prescribed gliczocide and statins for high cholesterol. Given a diet sheet for foods to avoid but I didn’t really know what I was doing. Was still eating wholemeal carbs , fruit, drinking wine, my fasting numbers although now under more control would be 8 or 9 in the morning.

After Christmas done some research on reversing and discovered Professor Taylor and Newcastle diet. Currently on week 4 and have lost just over 7kg. I’m still on my meds but average blood sugar in the morning is now 6.8.

Will keep it going I started at 93 kg and trying to get to 78 kg. Easier during the week when at work, weekends a lot harder.


----------



## Windy

showmethenumbers said:


> with a reading of 108


Hi @showmethenumbers it's a measure of HbA1c, which is glycated haemaglobin, so it's how much glucose is attached to the outside of part of your red blood cells. To get a diagnosis, you need to get over 47mmol/mol.
Well done on your excellent weight loss, better BG readings and discovering Roy Taylor's work, I'm also a fan of him and his team's work (which was funded by Diabetes UK).
Best wishes, Sarah
PS  others have got their HbA1c down from higher than yours, and I've got mine from 80 to 42 since October, so it's hopefully doable, and you're doing the right things.


----------



## Weekender

KayAnne said:


> Are you going through a bit of a stressful period at the minute Weekender? I find that my blood sugars are massively affected by stress no matter what I eat so this may be a cause for your recent high readings perhaps?
> 
> I also want to add that your thread has been a massive help and source of wisdom to assist me starting out the Newcastle Diet this year so thank you!


Well thanks KayAnne, I'm really pleased the thread has been a help. I was inspired to try the Newcastle Diet after reading @ColinUK thread back in May 2021, so its nice to pay forward. I thought the stress angle was very interesting. Work was getting to me. I compared weekend days and workdays, but there was no correlation unfortunately. My contract ended last week - so I may start to relax a bit (before I start looking for more work)
I read this article   on stress and diabetes. Very informative. I suspect my habit of drinking a lot of coffee, and vaping constantly (even when I wake in the middle of the night)  might be  a factor. I will have a go at knocking this on the head.


----------



## Weekender

showmethenumbers said:


> Hello everyone, thought I would share my story on this thread. This thread has been and still is a bit of an inspiration to me. Diagnosed with type 2 in Sep 2021 with a reading of 108. That seems quite high to me, [ can anyone tell me if that means it will take longer to get my BS under control.]
> 
> Prescribed gliczocide and statins for high cholesterol. Given a diet sheet for foods to avoid but I didn’t really know what I was doing. Was still eating wholemeal carbs , fruit, drinking wine, my fasting numbers although now under more control would be 8 or 9 in the morning.
> 
> After Christmas done some research on reversing and discovered Professor Taylor and Newcastle diet. Currently on week 4 and have lost just over 7kg. I’m still on my meds but average blood sugar in the morning is now 6.8.
> 
> Will keep it going I started at 93 kg and trying to get to 78 kg. Easier during the week when at work, weekends a lot harder.


Hi @showmethenumbers that all sounds really promising, you must feel pleased with 7kg lost in 4 weeks. There are so many different diets and opinions. I think the Newcastle one has the advantage of being very simple. I think weeks 4 - 5 were quite a challenge as weight loss starts to slow a bit, and the novelty is wearing off. Please stick with it though, as you will have a much stronger belief in your ability to make changes if you do. The 8 weeks *are* hard, but I found I had a strong resolve not to blow it further down the road


----------



## Weekender

*Week 38*
I was going to talk about the data and lack of progress putting on muscle and losing fat.
But reflecting on the encouraging posts from @KayAnne @Windy @showmethenumbers I thought I would step back and look at the bigger picture stuff

Number 1 - I have stopped drinking beer (anything) at home. This took a few months, but I really resent drinking empty calories and value staying on top of my health more than drink. This was never something I expected  - being a beer drinker was part of who I thought I was, but the Newcastle diet and this forum have changed that.

Number 2 - I never buy cakes, chocolate or anything sugary - I always used to have a cake if I bought a coffee in a cafe - I wouldn't dream of it now.

Number 3  - I never eat bread as a snack, and only a fraction of the potatoes I used to

Number 4 - I have been doing weight training twice a week for 20 weeks - again, I never went to gym before.

Number 5 - I've gone from a 42" to 34" waist and, most importantly, have started _buying trousers that fit_ - which means I have faith that I will stay this size

I think all of this was a consequence of making that initial commitment to the 8 weeks on 800 calories and not wanting to undo the hard work



So I think I have recovered from Christmas, and levelled out from the food poisoning -  I was below 80kg this morning Blood sugars are lowering since my work contract ended


----------



## showmethenumbers

I have just finished week 7 and into week 8 and thought I would share a bit of an update. 

 I have not been a complete puritan the last couple of weeks. Maybe have a shake for breakfast / lunch and a low calorie dinner , no carbs.  I have also been having a sneaky vodka or two at the weekends but not going wild.

I am still definitely around the 800 calorie mark a day through the week , sometimes probably lower  , maybe push up to 1000/1200  on a Saturday/ Sunday occasionally.

At the end of week 7 I have lost 9.5 which I'm really pleased about. I look visibly slimmer , people comment on my weight loss although it is not information I have shared. Clothes feel better and I've  went down a couple of notches on the belt.

So far so good, it does work , weight is coming off but slowing down.

I feel a bit guilty as I have not strictly followed the diet to the letter recently.

There has also been a few family events in there which I have had to negotiate without undoing all the good work.

My weight loss has slowed down the last 3 weeks , I have only lost 2.3 kg in those weeks which doesn't seem much compared to the earlier weeks.

I will stick with it meantime and have built the low calorie intake into my lifestyle. 

*Does anyone knowing about weight plateauing , could that be happening here? or is it just I'm eating too many calories?*

Fasting blood sugar has stabilised and scoring 5s and 6s most mornings. Still on the medication and due a blood test this month I believe. 

I have another 5 / 6kg ish to go but it is definitely going to take a bit longer .

I  have been hovering around the 84kg mark for a couple of weeks without the continued  loss I would expect.


----------



## Weekender

showmethenumbers said:


> I have just finished week 7 and into week 8 and thought I would share a bit of an update.
> 
> I have not been a complete puritan the last couple of weeks. Maybe have a shake for breakfast / lunch and a low calorie dinner , no carbs.  I have also been having a sneaky vodka or two at the weekends but not going wild.
> 
> I am still definitely around the 800 calorie mark a day through the week , sometimes probably lower  , maybe push up to 1000/1200  on a Saturday/ Sunday occasionally.
> 
> At the end of week 7 I have lost 9.5 which I'm really pleased about. I look visibly slimmer , people comment on my weight loss although it is not information I have shared. Clothes feel better and I've  went down a couple of notches on the belt.
> 
> So far so good, it does work , weight is coming off but slowing down.
> 
> I feel a bit guilty as I have not strictly followed the diet to the letter recently.
> 
> There has also been a few family events in there which I have had to negotiate without undoing all the good work.
> 
> My weight loss has slowed down the last 3 weeks , I have only lost 2.3 kg in those weeks which doesn't seem much compared to the earlier weeks.
> 
> I will stick with it meantime and have built the low calorie intake into my lifestyle.
> 
> *Does anyone knowing about weight plateauing , could that be happening here? or is it just I'm eating too many calories?*
> 
> Fasting blood sugar has stabilised and scoring 5s and 6s most mornings. Still on the medication and due a blood test this month I believe.
> 
> I have another 5 / 6kg ish to go but it is definitely going to take a bit longer .
> 
> I  have been hovering around the 84kg mark for a couple of weeks without the continued  loss I would expect.
> 
> 
> View attachment 20278


Hi @showmethenumbers You are doing really well, 9.5kg is a great result. I had lots of moments when I broke the rules, beer was a real problem for me in the first months. Plateauing is normal, the metabolism adjusts itself to the new calorie inputs. It's worth bearing in mind that we  evolved (as apes) in an environment where calories are scarce, and so we are designed to slow down when food is scarce, and store fat when extra food is available. 
You will continue to lose weight if you eat less, but just at a slower rate.
You may find your energy levels dip for a bit, while your metabolism recalibrates, but this picks up after a few weeks


Here are my week 1 to 10 numbers. I'd got used to losing 1 to  2 Kgs, then by week 7 its more like half a Kg.
This is normal, and sustainable - if you lost half a Kg a week for 20 weeks = 10Kg 
I think I got down to about 78Kg at my lowest weight (I'm 6'1") , which was still reading as my body fat was too high. But I did look a bit too skeletal. I now aim for about 80Kg.

You are right, you are now entering the 'long game' which brings a new set of challenges  - mainly being consistent. patient and not getting down hearted when you have periods of loss of control.


----------



## Weekender

I was on holiday from 22-Feb to 2-Mar and then it was my 60th Birthday party on 6th March
So I haven't been on top of my diet or taking my readings.
I'm pleased @showmethenumbers posted on this thread yesterday as it nudged me to scrape the data together for an update and step back and take a look at my behaviour.
I had been letting things slide.
For the ten days before the holiday my average weight was 80.5kg and fasting blood sugars 5.3
The averages for since 2 March are 82.5kg and 6.4
Last night I ate 3 KitKats (my daughter had left laying around) and [horror] 3 slices of toast before bed :-(   
I also skipped my gym session yesterday.
So. I *will* get a grip. Back to 80.5 in the next two weeks.
It's a marathon not a sprint


----------



## Leadinglights

I was always told that initially when you change your diet by reducing calories, carbohydrates the weight loss is quite rapid mainly due to loss of fluid as carbs tend to make the body hold on to water but cutting carbs results in fluid loss and 1litre of fluid weighs 1kg so even day to day weight can vary because of how hydrated you are. 
If you have ever eaten something like celery or fennel which is a diuretic and spent all day dashing to the loo and find lo and behold you have lost weight.


----------



## ColinUK

Do you manually chart your stats or do you download them from an app?


----------



## showmethenumbers

thanks @Weekender appreciate the wisdom and goodwill. Your spreadsheets are fab by the way!


----------



## ColinUK

Got my HbA1C back today and it’s gone up more than I’d expected. 
I was ready for it to be 42-43 but it’s 45 so that’s made me more determined to drop the weight I’ve picked up over the last 12 months.


----------



## Rekhaw

@showmethenumbers you are doing great. but you know you can do it, you have so far already.


----------



## Weekender

ColinUK said:


> Do you manually chart your stats or do you download them from an app?


Hi @ColinUK  - a bit of both, I can export my weight from my Etekcity electronic scales, I type in my blood sugars from my Contour app, and import my activity data from my FitBit - but there is a lot of faffing about in Excel to populate the graphs.
I started a new job 6 weeks ago, and got out of the routine. Today being bank holiday Friday, I'm catching up. 

I just looked at your Half Marathon page - Well Done!!! 
I've enrolled for a half marathon  June 14th, and your successful completion is an inspiration


----------



## Weekender

Hmm - 9th of March: '_Back to 80.5 in two weeks_'
I've actually put on another 1.5kg since then.
A combination of working full time and drinking more beer.
I have registered for a half marathon on 14th June, so hopefully this will help motivate me.

I've not been recording my fasting blood sugars, I will request an Hba1c to get a handle on this.


----------



## Kreator

@Weekender, looks to me like you're doing really well - 1.5Kg gain in just over a month is nothing, enjoy the moments of celebration, and during the non celebratory times, go back to normal - a beer or 2 won't hurt so long as it's not everyday - same goes for snacking etc...

It can be difficult at times, I know...hang on in there mate, you're doing just fine!


----------



## travellor

Weekender said:


> Hmm - 9th of March: '_Back to 80.5 in two weeks_'
> I've actually put on another 1.5kg since then.
> A combination of working full time and drinking more beer.
> I have registered for a half marathon on 14th June, so hopefully this will help motivate me.
> 
> I've not been recording my fasting blood sugars, I will request an Hba1c to get a handle on this.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 20659
> View attachment 20660



I found doing the Newcastle diet reversed my diabetes by losing the weight, specifically internal body fat.
But it did seem to be the last to go, so I persevered, and finished up looking positively ill, but I got there.
However, it doing appear it's not the first fat to come back fortunately.
I have put a bit of weight back on, I didn't like the skeletor look, and I'm not rigid even now, my weight fluctuates.
But my BG numbers are good, my BP is good, so I'm not worried.


----------



## cockburn

I feel like I want to post a picture of my hand-drawn 'blue peter appeal' style chart that I use to colour in each day! More akin to a toddler's toothbrushing reward chart than your project management tools. It does really help though doesn't it, as does blogging for me. It looks as if you are really turning your health around and getting a great deal of satisfaction from it too. I agree that Roy Talyor's book is so helpful and sensitively written. A tricky thing to pull off when at times it feels as if I have just been a bit silly. There is definitely an aspect of that for me to becoming overweight and he handles that with respect and without being patronising which I really value.


----------



## showmethenumbers

Bit of an update for me. I am on a Newcastleish diet and have been sort of following it since Mid Jan. 

Mon - Fri when working i will have shakes for breakfast and lunch. I will have a high protein dinner usually chicken and ham salads, vegetables , soups.  Dont eat much bread or carbs anymore.  At the weekend I am not as strict with myself will have eggs / sausages / curry. Have stopped drinking beer unless its a night out which are few and far between. 

Anyway have lost 11k from start and probably I'm not being strict enough with myself to loose that last 4k. 

Seem to sit at the same weight  of 82 the last few weeks.

Diagnosed at 108 in Sep , then i was 50 something HBA1 Dec.

Had my bloods last week and i was 31 HBA1. Nurse was quite surprised. 

Has told me to stop taking glicazide and if i stay below 42 for next year have reversed my type 2.

So my query is should i keep going and try and loose the last 4kg of weight, the target was loosing 15kg. 

Started at 93 now 82 kg.

Or seeing as my HBA1 is good,  just maintain the weight I am at and stick / develop the healthy  lifestyle habits over the last few months.


----------



## Eddy Edson

showmethenumbers said:


> Bit of an update for me. I am on a Newcastleish diet and have been sort of following it since Mid Jan.
> 
> Mon - Fri when working i will have shakes for breakfast and lunch. I will have a high protein dinner usually chicken and ham salads, vegetables , soups.  Dont eat much bread or carbs anymore.  At the weekend I am not as strict with myself will have eggs / sausages / curry. Have stopped drinking beer unless its a night out which are few and far between.
> 
> Anyway have lost 11k from start and probably I'm not being strict enough with myself to loose that last 4k.
> 
> Seem to sit at the same weight  of 82 the last few weeks.
> 
> Diagnosed at 108 in Sep , then i was 50 something HBA1 Dec.
> 
> Had my bloods last week and i was 31 HBA1. Nurse was quite surprised.
> 
> Has told me to stop taking glicazide and if i stay below 42 for next year have reversed my type 2.
> 
> So my query is should i keep going and try and loose the last 4kg of weight, the target was loosing 15kg.
> 
> Started at 93 now 82 kg.
> 
> Or seeing as my HBA1 is good,  just maintain the weight I am at and stick / develop the healthy  lifestyle habits over the last few months.


Brilliant work!

I'd say that losing some more weight would probably be good for general health, and would give you some "margin" against weight regain.


----------



## BeeBusy

Weekender said:


> I’ve just completed Week 2 and thought I would add my experiences so far.
> 
> Background
> I’m 59 and was diagnosed Type 2 three weeks ago. I was 101kg. My GP didn’t mention my blood glucose HbA1c levels, and they lost the second test results. I used my wife’s Contour monitor (she’s hypoglycaemic) and recorded my fasting blood sugars as 8 and 7.5 the first 2 days. I’d been drinking a lot of beer during lockdown and snack a lot in front of the telly.
> 
> The Newcastle Diet as it had been in the paper recently. I read the stories from people on this web site who had succeeded with it on this forum. I decided to buy Prof Roy Taylor’s new book, and downloaded info from the Newcastle Magnetic Resonance Centre website
> 
> To reduce weight by the 15kg in 8 weeks (to clear fat from my pancreas and reset my insulin responses) I started the diet of 800 calories from 3 meal replacement shakes and soups (I’m using Optifast and Exante) + veg. To ‘turbo charge’ it I’m limiting my intake to between 12:00pm to 6pm and jogging and swimming in morning.
> 
> Observations
> The first three days were challenging, I felt hungry and unsure if I could manage it.
> After this though, my body had got used to using my fat stores for energy, and I don’t feel hungry at all hungry in the morning and can exercise. I feel peckish after I have my first meal replacement shakes and soups.
> I feel quite hungry and tempted to snack an hour or so after the final 6pm shake and vegetable meal. I often also really fancy a pint of beer. Going for a walk distracts me.
> 
> Fasting Blood Sugar
> The level dropped from 8-7 to normal after week 1
> 
> Blood Pressure
> This has dropped in line the weight loss and is in the normal range by week 2
> 
> Ketone Strips
> I bought some ketone urine testing strips and got encouragement in the first week seeing that I was in ketosis and burning fat.
> 
> Energy Levels
> The reason I went to the GP was that I was very lethargic. I thought I had a thyroid problem – but it was obviously Type 2 diabetes. Within a few days of starting the diet I am 100% more energetic and my mood is great. My family are all pleased with the change.
> 
> Water
> The literature states ‘drink 3 litres of water’. Converting fat to energy uses water. I found when I go for a jog around 9 am, I grind to halt without water. Once I have some, I perk up instantly. The same applies when I’m swimming.
> If I feel tired or grumpy, a glass of water fixes it pretty quickly.
> 
> Sleep
> I have an enlarged prostrate and am not on medication yet. The increased water consumption for fat oxidation has resulted in very disturbed sleep due to frequent trips to the loo. I will be seeing the prostate clinic to accept their offer of alpha blockers as soon as I can get an appointment.
> My sleep is reduced (Fitbit data) and deep sleep has almost disappeared. I don’t know if this is an effect of the fat metabolism – I can’t find any literature on this.
> 
> Bowel
> Constipation is a known and obvious effect of not eating solids. Despite eating the prescribed salad and vegetable meals, the first week ranged from rabbit pellets to diarrhea ☹ . I bought some psyllium husk capsules and week 2 is better.
> 
> Data Tracking
> I used to work in project control and like with playing spreadsheets and data so have set up trackers for blood sugar, blood pressure (I have a monitor), weight (I have a smart scale) and activity (via fitbit). I enjoy my morning data collection and updating graphs - I’m happy to share the mechanics in the unlikely event any else is interested.
> 
> Weight data can fluctuates +/- several pounds for a variety of reasons, and the ‘I put on weight days’ are discouraging. Many people recommend only weighing yourself weekly for this reason. However, you will still get a potential +/- several pounds on the day – so I like to keep a running average to forecast the trend. 15kg in 8 weeks = 267g (quarter kilo) or 9.5 oz a day. I'm averaging 295g per day over 10 days - so I'm well on track.
> 
> 
> View attachment 17316
> View attachment 17319
> 
> View attachment 17317
> View attachment 17318


This is so very inspiring! Thank you for sharing!


----------



## cockburn

Weekender said:


> Hi @showmethenumbers that all sounds really promising, you must feel pleased with 7kg lost in 4 weeks. There are so many different diets and opinions. I think the Newcastle one has the advantage of being very simple. I think weeks 4 - 5 were quite a challenge as weight loss starts to slow a bit, and the novelty is wearing off. Please stick with it though, as you will have a much stronger belief in your ability to make changes if you do. The 8 weeks *are* hard, but I found I had a strong resolve not to blow it further down the road


It is so useful to hear that you found weeks four and five tricky. That is where I am and it is certainly hard to push through as the weight gain lessens and the shakes start to look less appealing! I can hear how the experience has changed how you feel about food and your body though Weekender and the prize is to live healthily and well for longer. It sounds odd but cake is what beer might have been to you - a part of my identity. I can't really imagine life without it forever more, so I am hoping it can be reimagined somehow, but perhaps I will feel differently when I hit my target weight. Thank you for the time you take to update the forum. I find it useful and it has motivated me to ask what my hBaiC numbers were and are as I was given different numbers which I have now forgotten but may have been 78 down to 58 (with an update next week). I will get them written down and in mmols so that I can add them to my profile and share how I am doing too. I think my diabetes nurse is working in the diabetic equivalent of old money.


----------



## travellor

cockburn said:


> It is so useful to hear that you found weeks four and five tricky. That is where I am and it is certainly hard to push through as the weight gain lessens and the shakes start to look less appealing! I can hear how the experience has changed how you feel about food and your body though Weekender and the prize is to live healthily and well for longer. It sounds odd but cake is what beer might have been to you - a part of my identity. I can't really imagine life without it forever more, so I am hoping it can be reimagined somehow, but perhaps I will feel differently when I hit my target weight. Thank you for the time you take to update the forum. I find it useful and it has motivated me to ask what my hBaiC numbers were and are as I was given different numbers which I have now forgotten but may have been 78 down to 58 (with an update next week). I will get them written down and in mmols so that I can add them to my profile and share how I am doing too. I think my diabetes nurse is working in the diabetic equivalent of old money.



I think it does change your relationship with food.
Other diets seem to recreate variations of "normal" food, and eat until you are satiated.
For me, a family size pack of jam donuts just didn't need a place in my future any more, so the complete stop gave me a chance to reset myself, and pick healthy eating habits.
I did still need a "kick" from food, so I went spicy rather than sweet, and to be honest, I actually don't like the taste of sugar and sweet food anymore.
I also reprogramed myself to eat when I was hungry, and at set mealtimes, and to eat a reasonable amount, then stop, rather than continue until I was stuffed, like I used to, and then graze in between.


----------



## Weekender

cockburn said:


> It is so useful to hear that you found weeks four and five tricky. That is where I am and it is certainly hard to push through as the weight gain lessens and the shakes start to look less appealing! I can hear how the experience has changed how you feel about food and your body though Weekender and the prize is to live healthily and well for longer. It sounds odd but cake is what beer might have been to you - a part of my identity. I can't really imagine life without it forever more, so I am hoping it can be reimagined somehow, but perhaps I will feel differently when I hit my target weight. Thank you for the time you take to update the forum. I find it useful and it has motivated me to ask what my hBaiC numbers were and are as I was given different numbers which I have now forgotten but may have been 78 down to 58 (with an update next week). I will get them written down and in mmols so that I can add them to my profile and share how I am doing too. I think my diabetes nurse is working in the diabetic equivalent of old money.


I'm really pleased to read you are taking control of your diabetes  - 78 to 58 sounds like the same units typically used in the Forum. During lock down we bought a bread maker, which I gave to brother-in-law once I realised I had diabetes. I still miss crusty fresh bread - but not that often. We just don't have bread in the house, which was a sacrifice Mrs Weekender has made. It's probably close to my 1 year Newcastle diet anniversary. Despite doing 20-30km running a week I'm 4-5 kg over my target weight, but my blood sugars seem pretty stable. Last night at a BBQ I drank beer and ate lindt chocolate pralines, and my blood sugars are good. You may be lucky and be able to get every thing back to normal, and have the occasional cake, but I think @travellor is right, it's easier to just banish stuff and stop thinking about it


----------



## Weekender

Anniversary Post  
Work has been very demanding and I haven't been on top of the data gathering etc.
I've been reflecting a lot on @ColinUK decision to re-run the Newcastle Diet. It will be my anniversary next week.
15th May 2021:  101kg with fasting Blood sugars at 10.3
13 weeks later - 20th August 2021 :  80.6 Kg and fasting Blood sugars @ 5.5
I stayed at 80.6 till March this year and since then the average is 83.5. This coincided with my 60th Birthday, and if I'm honest with myself, I lost my commitment and grip once I'd reached this mental milestone.
I enrolled for a half marathon  (June 14th), and started training 6 weeks ago hoping this would result in more training and weight loss.
BUT, The data . . .
Fitbit Very Active Minutes (Green Columns) *up* - average calories burned (Blue Line) *down.*
Even though I've read Burn by Herman Pontzer and his theory of “_constrained daily energy expenditure,” our bodies adjust how we spend our capped number of calories based on lifestyle. _I was still surprised.


I should know this by now - _you can only lose weight by dieting_. I think it would be daft to think about dieting whilst training for a half marathon. But I might 'do a Colin' and hit the 800 calories a day after this.

I would like to stress that my blood sugars are great - and this is the point of the Newcastle Diet.
I'm eating well (less carbs) drinking beer (less than I was) and it seems I can eat the occasional chocolate etc without any problem

So, a year on, I can thoroughly recommend the Newcastle Diet for putting Type 2 Diabetes into remission.


----------



## Kreator

Yep, in terms of exercise, for me at least, unless you do lots & lots (probably equivalent of at least 20,000 steps a day!), your body adjusts accordingly  

...A Half Marathon would do you a lot of good though - just not every day huh?!

Good luck mate - only wish I could even dream of doing even a quarter of a Marathon lol 

Lets us know how you get on, and like you said to me, keep the faith


----------



## Weekender

Six monthly review today HbA1c = 30 mmol so I'm very pleased
Weight is above where it was (84kg) but I think I'll stop worrying too much given the HbA1c results
Thank you Professor Taylor and the Newcastle diet


----------



## mage 1

Weekender said:


> View attachment 21358
> Six monthly review today HbA1c = 30 mmol so I'm very pleased
> Weight is above where it was (84kg) but I think I'll stop worrying too much given the HbA1c results
> Thank you Professor Taylor and the Newcastle diet


Well done


----------



## Kreator

Great job! - I have my review in November, so a while to wait yet, but I'm confident all will be fine also..

You're right, no need to worry anymore, the new normal is here...!

Good job @Weekender, I hope our threads can be helpful to many more on their journeys!


----------



## travellor

Brilliant!


----------



## Eddy Edson

Nice!


----------



## Windy

Excellent news, your hard work has paid off


----------



## Jenny65

Is the Newcastle Diet similar to Lipotrim?


----------



## Eddy Edson

Jenny65 said:


> Is the Newcastle Diet similar to Lipotrim?


See this link for "Newcastle": https://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reversal/#publicinformation

On a quick skim, lipotrim messaging is similar: limited time very low calorie intervention under trained supervision to quickly lose weight.  But Prof Taylor, the lead "Newcastle" researcher, doesn't include lipotrim among the recommended products, for whatever reason:


*The following are suitable liquid replacement meals as described in Life Without Diabetes:*

_These all provide 200 calories per meal:

Exante, Slim and Save, Kee Diet and New You Plan.  Also suitable, when made up with skimmed milk*,* are Asda,GreatShape and Tesco, Ultraslim._


(FWIW, I don't like calling this the "Newcastle Diet" - it's a short term intervention, not a long term eating pattern; "diet" might suggest otherwise.)


----------



## nonethewiser

Weekender said:


> View attachment 21358
> Six monthly review today HbA1c = 30 mmol so I'm very pleased
> Weight is above where it was (84kg) but I think I'll stop worrying too much given the HbA1c results
> Thank you Professor Taylor and the Newcastle diet



Great achievement, job well done.


----------



## Weekender

70 Weeks Later
All going well. 
Fasting Blood Sugar averaging 5.9
I started to lose a bit of grip during June and July - summer time beers in the garden.
I've kept going to the gym 3 times a week, but I suspect I thought this gave me license not to worry too much about beer and the wrong types of food.
I entered a 10k run on 18th September, which has given me a bit more focus.
I haven't be taking my fasting bloods or weight very regularly, but I have updated my tracker with the information I have.
You might notice the weight creeping up to 84kg and now bouncing around 82 - 83kg. I had got down to 79kg after the fast - I think 81kg is a good target as I have added more muscle since then


----------



## BlueArmy

Is there a link on this forum that can guide people through  what it is and how you follow it including products to buy etc. I asked my diabetic nurse for a referral to a dietician so I could be supported through this diet and I was
told I do not qualify as my HB1AC was only 56 and it needed to be higher under NICE guidelines - despite the fact that based on my BMI and co-morbidities I qualify under the same guidelines for bariatric surgery (this has to be wrong surely)


----------



## Eddy Edson

BlueArmy said:


> Is there a link on this forum that can guide people through  what it is and how you follow it including products to buy etc. I asked my diabetic nurse for a referral to a dietician so I could be supported through this diet and I was
> told I do not qualify as my HB1AC was only 56 and it needed to be higher under NICE guidelines - despite the fact that based on my BMI and co-morbidities I qualify under the same guidelines for bariatric surgery (this has to be wrong surely)


The Newcastle Uni T2D reversal page is probably a good place to start:   https://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reversal/#publicinformation

I'd recommend Roy Taylor's book also: https://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reversal/#lifewithoutdiabetes  Profits apparently go to Diabetes UK.  I didn't actually do the "Newcastle Diet", just lost a bunch of weight at a slower rate by cutting calories, but I thought the book had a really good, accessible explanation of T2D and I imagine that the practical advice might be useful if you are doing the Newcastle Diet. 

There's also a simplified version "Your Simple Guide to Reversing Type 2 Diabetes" which I haven't read.


----------



## Leadinglights

BlueArmy said:


> Is there a link on this forum that can guide people through  what it is and how you follow it including products to buy etc. I asked my diabetic nurse for a referral to a dietician so I could be supported through this diet and I was
> told I do not qualify as my HB1AC was only 56 and it needed to be higher under NICE guidelines - despite the fact that based on my BMI and co-morbidities I qualify under the same guidelines for bariatric surgery (this has to be wrong surely)


This link may help you make some of your own decisions as everybody is different and no standard set of 'rules' would apply to everyone. https://lowcarbfreshwell.co.uk/


----------



## travellor

Leadinglights said:


> This link may help you make some of your own decisions as everybody is different and no standard set of 'rules' would apply to everyone. https://lowcarbfreshwell.co.uk/



Really?

Low carb bombing the Newcatle Diet thread?

@Weekender excellent result!
It great to feel you have actually reversed Diabetes, and not stuck on diet control. I found it gave me much more freedom in my lifestyle.

@BlueArmy you will no doubt get all the usual "go low carb" posts from the usual suspects.
I got a torrents  of them when I decided diet control wasn't for me, I just ignored them and moved on.

Eddy has put excellent information there, I did the diet on three Tesco shakes a day, and mostly salad for an evening meal.


----------



## Windy

Eddy Edson said:


> There's also a simplified version "Your Simple Guide to Reversing Type 2 Diabetes" which I haven't read.


I've read them both and they're both excellent. I've donated both copies to other people (the diabetes nurse at my GPs, and a friend at risk of diabetes) and would recommend either of them. The simple guide is shorter though, if you're time poor. The proceeds for both of them have been donated to Diabetes UK by Professor Taylor, he's a good egg!


----------



## Kreator

Great job @Weekender, it feels great to know you're living 'Life Without Diabetes'  

I feel much the same way, not restricted to any particular diet, and living normal life - it's great to see!

Roy Taylor is indeed a 'Good Egg'!


----------



## travellor

I never thought I'd be enjoying exercise so much again either.
Looking back, being sedentary just crept up on me without noticing.
I think the sudden loss made a greater difference, mentally as well as physically, as I could feel and see the change with it not being as gradual as the rise in weight.


----------



## Weekender

BlueArmy said:


> Is there a link on this forum that can guide people through  what it is and how you follow it including products to buy etc. I asked my diabetic nurse for a referral to a dietician so I could be supported through this diet and I was
> told I do not qualify as my HB1AC was only 56 and it needed to be higher under NICE guidelines - despite the fact that based on my BMI and co-morbidities I qualify under the same guidelines for bariatric surgery (this has to be wrong surely)


Hi @BlueArmy 
@Eddy Edson is right to suggest the book  - I bought the the easy one Amazon link but wish I bought the longer one Amazon Link as it's very interesting stuff

It's fairly straight forward - you live on the (proper) meal replacement shakes and salads for 8 weeks, there are a few threads like mine that give you a day by day account of what to expect @ColinUK @Kreator.

The evidence is quite conclusive that people find it easier to stick to an 8 week Very Low Calorie  Diet, than a gradual change. You should lose about 15% of your body weight, and enough visceral fat to reset your liver and insulin levels.
After the 8 weeks you will also have a very different relationship to food.
Here is a link to good Professor Taylor Video

I've attached the meal plan.

It takes some getting used to, but this Forum will gives you loads of support and advice - I don't think I would have stuck with out without this support


Here's another good Professor Taylor Video

Here's one from Dr Herman Ponzer about metabolism and why it's hard to lose weight from exercise only Ponzer Video

And this Kevin D. Hall, PhD | “Calories, Carbs, or Quality: What Matters Most for Body Weight?”

And This : How We Got the Science of Weight Loss Wrong - with Giles Yeo


----------



## Weekender

Kreator said:


> Great job @Weekender, it feels great to know you're living 'Life Without Diabetes'
> 
> I feel much the same way, not restricted to any particular diet, and living normal life - it's great to see!
> 
> Roy Taylor is indeed a 'Good Egg'!


Cheers @Kreator  - I have to keep an eye on what I eat and drink, and things slip from time to time, but I try and keep on the path


----------



## Weekender

BlueArmy said:


> Is there a link on this forum that can guide people through  what it is and how you follow it including products to buy etc. I asked my diabetic nurse for a referral to a dietician so I could be supported through this diet and I was
> told I do not qualify as my HB1AC was only 56 and it needed to be higher under NICE guidelines - despite the fact that based on my BMI and co-morbidities I qualify under the same guidelines for bariatric surgery (this has to be wrong surely)


Unfortunately there is no program here in Wales, but don't let the lack of NHS support stop you - there are plenty of people who have lived through it on this forum who can support you


----------



## berryr99

Does anyone know if the Newcastle diet can be done by someone who is type 2 but being treated with insulin ? I'd be interested to know how to/how much to reduce insulin in the light of very low carbohydrate intake. I'd have to do it without GP help as they are basically hopeless on helping me with anythimg right now.


----------



## travellor

berryr99 said:


> Does anyone know if the Newcastle diet can be done by someone who is type 2 but being treated with insulin ? I'd be interested to know how to/how much to reduce insulin in the light of very low carbohydrate intake. I'd have to do it without GP help as they are basically hopeless on helping me with anythimg right now.



I'm not on insulin, and couldn't advise.
But,
the diet's premise is that the pancreas is smothered in fat, and is struggling to work, and that the liver is also the same.
The diet removes internal fat, and the organs can recover functionality.
If you are on insulin, it may be that the pancreas may not be able to recover sufficiently.

Possibly other members may have suggestions?


----------



## Leadinglights

berryr99 said:


> Does anyone know if the Newcastle diet can be done by someone who is type 2 but being treated with insulin ? I'd be interested to know how to/how much to reduce insulin in the light of very low carbohydrate intake. I'd have to do it without GP help as they are basically hopeless on helping me with anything right now.


I think it would be a dangerous strategy without the support and approval from either your GP or diabetic nurse.
I would research thoroughly before undertaking any changes.
Hopefully those on a similar insulin regime will be along to comment.
Why do you want to try it?


----------



## berryr99

Leadinglights said:


> I think it would be a dangerous strategy without the support and approval from either your GP or diabetic nurse.
> I would research thoroughly before undertaking any changes.
> Hopefully those on a similar insulin regime will be along to comment.
> Why do you want to try it?


I'd like to lose some weight and get back some energy and get my hba1c down to a more reasonable level. I appreciate your comments and realise this should not be done unaided


----------



## Windy

berryr99 said:


> I'd like to lose some weight and get back some energy and get my hba1c down to a more reasonable level. I appreciate your comments and realise this should not be done unaided


Could you see if you can get an appointment with the diabetes nurse at your practice if you're looking to lose weight (if there is one at the practice)? 
Ask about how you'd need to adjust your insulin if you're reducing portion size. You don't have to follow the Newcastle diet specifically, maybe think about one meal a day that you can have less calories in and how you'd need to tackle that, so have a lighter breakfast (an omelette, or yogurt or whatever you decide on) , or soup for lunch or whatever works for you.

Two "normal" meals and a lighter one is a way to gently lose weight, as long as you don't go mad on the portion size for the normal meals. Maybe try and have a ten minute walk round the block after each meal too if that's possible.
But get guidance from the D nurse before you start out, hopefully they'll be able to give you some ideas.
Best wishes, Sarah


----------

