# beyond belief



## Steff (Aug 20, 2009)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/8210471.stm

just seen this on news last night nothing to do with diabetes really but cant believe it what an insult to the girl


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## Twitchy (Aug 20, 2009)

Err...how difficult can it be to prove?!!


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## Steff (Aug 20, 2009)

Twitchy said:


> Err...how difficult can it be to prove?!!



Exactly i saw her run last night i certainly could not spot any lumps or bumps in wrong places


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## Twitchy (Aug 20, 2009)

I know she's not exactly curvaceous, but then neither is Paula Radcliffe?!  (although having a baby was quite a comprehensive proof lol!).  I suppose at least if they do "prove" she's female she can stick two fingers up at her detractors, and on the otherhand if it is an elaborate scam, in fairness to the other athletes it needs sorting...just a bit humiliating in the first case for the poor lass. 

If it is a scam it must be pretty elaborate...one of my housemates years ago was an athlete, they had to give urine samples for drugs test, whilst being watched/witnessed by officials...ie a bit hard to hide anything that shouldn't be there, if you know what I mean...   Weird story...heck of a win, though!


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## Copepod (Aug 20, 2009)

There is a whole range of genetic possibilities XX (female) and XY (male) are the most common, but others are possible, identifiable by specialist blood DNA tests. Often the person concerned will be unaware of any issues until they attempt to become pregnant. It's fairly normal (or used to be) for athletes to undego gender tests - I seem to remember that Princess Anne, who was the only athlete at the Olympics in which she competed in equestrianism not to be sex tested.


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## katie (Aug 20, 2009)

god that's awful.  The thing is though, what if she has changed gender for personal reasons? they can't exactly make her run in the men's race...


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## insulinaddict09 (Aug 20, 2009)

katie said:


> god that's awful.  The thing is though, what if she has changed gender for personal reasons? they can't exactly make her run in the men's race...



Hmm its a tough call  she may be a whatever they call you if you are both sexes  Grr I cant think of the word though , I'll think of it and come back .

p.s Hermaphrodite ... just thought of it


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## aymes (Aug 20, 2009)

As I understand it the allegation is not that she's 'cheated' and entered the race as a female knowing otherwise. The question seems to be whether she has a genetic situation meaning that her gender isn't 'straighforward' female but something more complex but something that she's unlikely to be aware of previously. A rather difficult situation all round. The bigger worry seems to be the rather insensitive timing of the announcement of the investigation, and indeed whether anything should have been announced at this stage.




Copepod said:


> It's fairly normal (or used to be) for athletes to undego gender tests - I seem to remember that Princess Anne, who was the only athlete at the Olympics in which she competed in equestrianism not to be sex tested.



I think it was only as little as 10/15 years ago that they stopped rountinely gender testing professional female athletes and moved to deciding individually when it is 'necessary'.


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## DickBarton (Aug 20, 2009)

I've not paid much attention to this but from the waist up, I'd be hard pushed to say she was a she...seems to have no definition in the chest whatsoever - other than developed upper body muscles - I know breasts are not muscular but she looks flatter than the Netherlands! (sorry for the schoolboy comparison but it's to get the point across)

I'm not fussed about it but I do hope it gets sorted as it does seem unfair that if this is true and she is a he then the other athletes are seriously cheated.


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## Caroline (Aug 24, 2009)

I used to work with somone who was a girl, but was brought up as a boy. Once she got to school and realised she was really a girl she had all sorts of emotional issues because her parents really wanted a boy.


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## Copepod (Aug 29, 2009)

*scientific comment*

A couple of good explanatory articles about the issue of Caster Semenya in this week's New Scientist, available online at http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20327233.200-gender-bending-the-rules-for-caster-semenya.html (editorial) and http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20327234.600-insight-when-is-a-woman-more-like-a-man.html (news article)


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## sasha1 (Aug 30, 2009)

Hi All ...

This is a tough call ... and I do so feel for the poor girl .... She may be a hermaphradite ... (think that is the correct spelling) ... where she is in fact both sexes .. but showing more masculine traits .. as increase in testosterone 

Heidi
xx


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## Caroline (Sep 2, 2009)

Conversly, I have come a cross a couple of men who are very feminine and when tested had less testosterone than the average male.

I hope everything gets sorted out for this young lady as I think she is under quite enough stress, and is allowed to get on with her job of being an athleat. I think a fuss must have been made by someone who wasn't so good...


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