# Grief at work (lone working)



## kitemaster (Dec 1, 2008)

Hi everyone
Not too sure if anyone else has had an issue like this but I work in an environment which sometimes means I can be working alone for hours and as a result of this I have had a risk assessment created by the 'Head of Health and safety' with the full support from 'Human Resources' and the backing for our 'Occupational Health Dept'. You would think that after all that everything should be ok. But! not according to my Manager who has been requested by all parties to sign it, he is failing to do so and making every excuse under the sun not to! He believes I can work anywhere without regular checks. Has anyone else had anything like this to contend with if so I would like to hear from them.


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## Alan221 (Dec 1, 2008)

Shaun,

i'm guessing that if your company has a Health & Safety and a Human Resources Dept then your manager has no option but to sign the assesment. You are perfedtly within your rights to seek a review of his action/non action by his line manager. If you don't want to raise this within your company, contact the local authority and request they get involved. In my experience they will contact your regional or head office and that is usually enough to scare the pants off the relevant manager who will kick his proverbial ar$e. It might be worth reminding him of the personal liabilities (fines & prison) that exist for H&S breaches. Your company appears to be responding correctly to their duty of care with his obvious exception.


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## sunflower_harvester (Dec 1, 2008)

Hi Kitemaster Shaun

What is your boss's problem? Does he think that you should not work alone or does he think you should be able to work without the provisions made in the risk assessment? Under the disability discrimination Act employers have a legal obligation to make 'reasonably practicable adjustments' so you can do your job-this can simply mean regular breaks to check blood sugar and a non-negotiable meal break, if you have had a risk assessment for your diabetes and reccomendations have been made then refusal to abide by them isn't just a H&S breech its a breech of the DDA. 

What is it you do anyway? I've been a 'lone worker' in total for about 3-4 years as a community nurse then research nurse and I've never had a risk assessment done (suprise suprise in the NHS!) but I've never had any problems working alone with hypos etc.


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## aymes (Dec 1, 2008)

my job involves a lot of lone working and everyone in our organisation has to have a risk assessment for this, of course mine was more in depth! I can understand where your boss will be coming from but the purpose of a risk assessment should be to allow you to do things, in as safe a manner as possible, not to stop you doing things. Therefore if the risk assessment is well done there shouldn't be any reason to stop you doing the activity, in this case lone working. In my case the measures were that other people in the buildings were aware of how to treat a hypo, that I test regularly and have hypo treatments on me, that when im out and about someone (at home or a colleague) knows where I am and when I'm due back. None of that is really anything I wouldn't normally do.
Perhaps you could chat to your boss to find out what he thinks the unacceptable risks are and counter them with an explanation of how you already control them, which if course we all do every day!


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## kitemaster (Dec 2, 2008)

Hi everyone in answer to some of your questions I work for a very large computer manufacturer and am based with one of our major clients in an MOD establishment. The work I do can be everything from moving pc's from one location to another, networking, cable laying, fault diagnosis server repairs, the list goes on. The concern for me is the locations are very isolated and you can be working there for hours on your own with no-one to check on you. Also other area's where people do not know of your medical condition. Some locations dont get visits from one week to the next. I have suffered for years with sudden disabling Hypo's! Unfortunately our Manager does lack a bit of common sense as the locations we visit on our customers site do not allow for lone working even for a dare I say it 'fit/healthy individual'.


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## goldie31 (Dec 2, 2008)

*security guard*

when i was told that i was type 2  it was a worry because i work alone but when i spoke to my boss and told him what was going on he was really good i now have hourly check call and site visits and when it comes to dr or hosp visits he works my shift round me . i was really worried that he was going to sack me but he has been very good with me  i reckon the best thing to do is sit sown with him and talk it out .


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## kitemaster (Dec 2, 2008)

Unfortunately i have tried the sit down and talk principle, he just cant accept that in some area's I work in are dangerous for any lone person let alone a diabetic. To give you an idea of the kind of statements he has come up with is: He considers driving for me a high risk although it has been agreed between all parties that a BG test will be done before undergoing any driving distance this has been allocated a low to medium risk as the driving is not an energetic type of activity and does not burn large amounts of glucose. Where as he stipulates moving large heavy pieces of computer equipment is low risk although I often suffer from Hypo's when taking on these tasks because of the physical nature of the work.
After discussing the matter with him he did insist I should tell people that they should treat my condition in a serious episode, I cant do this as I believe they should be volunteers not be forced into it...
I dont think this is going to be the end of this issue overnight and may even need to involve the HSE as a last resort...


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## kincaidston (Dec 2, 2008)

I'd have thought he'd have been happy to sign the risk assessment off as essentialy it absolves him of taking the responsibility for you and he can quite rightly claim that all the interested parties have carried out the neccessary paperwork exercise and he could do nothing more


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## kitemaster (Dec 2, 2008)

*Hi Kincaidston*

You are quite right it would seem logical but unfortunately it appears as if I may have one of those bosses who cant see further than the end of his nose!

The problem may be resolved soon as they are going to go ahead with the risk assessment even if he fails to sign it or accept as all the important parties are in full support of it... 

These parties have all told him that its a good Risk assessment and accurate...


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## Wooleyback (Dec 3, 2008)

Hi,
That is an interesting one,  Do you know the reason for his reluctance?  He does have a duty of care and statutory duty to uphold the law on health and safety.


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## kitemaster (Dec 3, 2008)

*Reluctance to sign*

Hi 
It appears it may possibly be because of what they may consider additional expense, it has been proven that two people on these types of jobs is quicker and easier for myself and colleagues but they are looking at the expense of having two people in the same location at once...
I had a further discussion with himself today and our customer manager and he is adamant I am now a high risk driving! I was polite with my response and simply requested how he came to that opinion but would not answer at all, to cover my own back I have contacted the DVLA and asked their opinion and they only consider me as low risk as all my driving is covered by regular blood tests prior to driving any distance. Whether it be simply ignorance I find it inexcusable, if I was the manager in our business and someone approached me with a medical condition I would at least read up on it and gen myself...
My manager has said he doesnt need to bother as all you do with a diabetic is stuff them with sugar if there is a problem, See my problem...


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## kitemaster (Dec 5, 2008)

I have spoken to Occupational Health again after them speaking to him they have stipulated that it is a good Risk Assessment regarding the environment I work in and stated that I shouldnt be wrapped up in cotton wool. They also asked him whether he would discuss his issues with me and he stated, 'it doesnt involve him' so I wont talk... He still hasnt given any reason why he wont sign it...


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## kojack (Dec 5, 2008)

This is surely illegal. 
I would normally consider that you now follow occupational guides and advise him that you will now go to the next tier of management.
However, in the current industrial climate, it would be very easy for him to find some other reason to give you workplace problems


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## kitemaster (Dec 5, 2008)

Hi Kojack
It does appear that what he is doing is illegal, I am discussing this further now with HSE and they have already stated that it is fair to say he can opt out from signing the risk assessment but he has to be given notice that he will need to place his reasons in writing for refusal of signing.

I have given him all the reasons why I am accepting it. 

I have the full support from our customer who happens to be the MOD, they have said that as I am their responsibility on their site they have offered to complete a risk assessment on my behalf. This would mean I will have to abide with their risk assessment and wont require his signature, it maybe the only answer to my dilemma...


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## kojack (Dec 5, 2008)

OK Shaun. I assume that you have given him your reasons in writing, kept a copy, a cc. to your occupational health department and his own manager.
The MOD are fair and intelligent employers. I am sure that they will be honest with you and their contracts are widely saught after which should give your company real food for thought.


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## kitemaster (Dec 8, 2008)

*conference call*

It appears as if we my have closure to this problem at last they are going to have a conference call about my condition where Occupational health and talking to H&S and the manager causing the problem, I managed to talk to the manager this morning and he insists that im high risk whilst driving, so in front of a witness I requested him to stipulate why im high risk and he started to buckle as he then said he knew nothing about the diabetic condition. When asked how he could make a decision on my driving he assumed i was unsafe... Because im ill!!!! How i loved to know im ill 'NOT'
Im just glad im not ignorant like my boss....


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## sunflower_harvester (Dec 8, 2008)

Hallelueigh!

You know the phrase when when you assume you make an ass of u and me? Well what an ass!
Its not like you expect everyone to be an expert on diabetes but you do expect them not to make assumptions then stick blindly to them....


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## kitemaster (Dec 8, 2008)

*you are right sunflower*

Hi Sunflower
Believe it or not I thought after 32 years of being diabetic people would have some sense/sensibility to my problem. I have to admit that what my manager has said and the way he has treated me I feel like some kind of leper and I find it very hurtful and such an insult the way I have been treated....


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## sunflower_harvester (Dec 8, 2008)

Come on Shaun, you're better than to make some numbnut make you feel like a leper. Your manager was hurtful and stupid and I'm sorry that you're upset by it all but by confronting him and sticking to your guns you've not only flown the flag and paved the way for future diabetics but hopefully your managers had a mirror held up to him and he'll have to consider how his actions were wrong. 
I've been diabetic 27 years and would love to think theres more understanding out there but few people outside 'the community' understand diabetes intricacies (spelling?) and really why would they?-I know naff all about cystic fibrosis- but this is why we need people like you to fight for not just your rights but all of our rights and to educate the numbnuts of this world so that it gets that little bit better and adults aren't kept out of work 'just in case' and children aren't being forced to eat lunch alone at school or sent home for every hypo
They may take our lucozade but they'll never take our freedom!


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## kojack (Dec 8, 2008)

Pleased to hear your news Shaun.

The person with the egg on his face is your manager. I am a recently diagnosed T2 diabetic, but over the years I have had both students and colleagues with T1 and all I did was make sure that they had some form of medic alert or card and of course the necessary drugs/quick sugars etc. and that they made colleagues aware of their well controlled situation.

Hope all goes well now and this uncalled for stress is removed.


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## Rach (Dec 9, 2008)

Hi Kitemaster,   Thumbs up, 1 nil to you.    Your VICTORY!!   Be proud of yourself.  Rach.


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## kitemaster (Dec 11, 2008)

*Conference update*

Hi everyone and thankyou 4 the kind words people have been saying, I know after 32 years you should never let it get on top of you but until know ive never had such grief. Anyway I promise no more moping around, the good news is the conference is going ahead tomorrow and HR are also involved and will be at the conference too. They are all supporting me and it should all be sorted out by Friday afternoon...
It just seems unfortunate that this could of all been resolved and not made so complicated in the first place if he would of listened...


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## kojack (Dec 11, 2008)

Although it has been dreadful for you Shaun, sharing your saga here has probably helped a lot of people who in the past have just accepted the sort of treatment you have had.

Tomorrow's conference, bearing in mind the participants, could have a huge knock on effect in many industrial situations.
There will have to be written analyses of the whole meeting which under the freedom of information act, could be accessed by others and presented to any awkward manager.


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## kitemaster (Dec 12, 2008)

*Dont laugh*

Looks like he has managed to avoid the meeting he failed to turn up at conference as he stipulated he had been called out to a job. strange as he was sitting in the office all afternoon!!! so oh dear i let it slip to the others at the conference, and they will be taking it further with him and decided to pull his points of view (lack of) out of the equation and the risk assessment applies without his consent...


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## kojack (Dec 12, 2008)

I expect he will have been using office time and equipment to type out his cv.
Well done Shaun. As for your boss.... there are fools, incompetents and complete idiots.
I think he must qualify for the lot!!


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## kitemaster (Dec 13, 2008)

*i have to agree Kojack*

Im off till tuesday and i probably wont know the whole outcome until I go back to work. But im sure he will need to do a load of explaining to quite a few people...


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## kitemaster (Dec 15, 2008)

*Result!!! A Winner*

Hi everyone to all those posting on this thread, it is now resolved...
They have stipulated that his input is not needed and therefore with all parties in agreeance the risk assessment stands with no changes...
Looks like im going to get the assistance I need when it is required...


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## kojack (Dec 15, 2008)

Great news Shaun.


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## sofaraway (Dec 16, 2008)

thats great news Shaun, good for you on your persitance to get what you need


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## Caroline (Dec 16, 2008)

Do you have uninon representation or an employee assistance package, or even a welfare manager? Talk to any of them for advice. Sometimes it helps if you have an independent third party who is not so emotionally involved and can be objective about the whole thing.

I work alone for about an hour early in the morning, I have to let everyone in the office know where I am. As other staff start work soon after me in the areas I go into, I am not alone for too long. WOuld a walkie talkie or two way radio be of any use?

I have encountered several people whohave said it is not safe for me to climb ladders as I am diabetic. I work in a major reference library with high density storage below ground. Most people I point in the direction of Diabetes UK, Balance Magazine (which we keep) and a number of good rference books. Itusually clears up any misunderstandings.

In my office I am lucky as one of the managers is also diabetic, so if you can get some one with a managerial position on your side it might help.


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## IT_FREAK2008 (Dec 16, 2008)

i work for an IT company naming no names but  get my boss/personel manager likes to make my life hell i work in 2 shops 1 in huddersfield 1 in morley and i live in wakefield and do full days on my own 8.5 hrs with hardly any contact with other work members i dont get any phone calls or visits what so ever. does the safety assessment legality rule over every work case. im type 1 diabetic and have been since 20th of march this yr(2008) i kind of figure that my boss doesn't like me since i found out im diabetic i needed a day off to go get my eyes screened and he said this is all get a little ridiculous! it all just seems wrong.

sorry if iv rambled on i just dont have anybody to talk to about this.

any help would be great Cheer Gaz.


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## kitemaster (Dec 16, 2008)

*Hi IT freak and to whom it may concern*

My problem is now resolved and I have just seen the latest version of my risk assessment and its tighter than the original so I will no longer have to work on the larger calls on my own 'hooray equal rights' 

IT freak I can sympathise with you on this matter if you can see by this thread I started on a few weeks ago.

You are not going to be the 1st or last Diabetic having problems in the workplace, You are covered by different acts. 

The one thing your employer cannot avoid is you can do what I had done in the end have a risk assessment created. Have you got a H&S rep? he could be helpful in these matters. 

Your employer similar to mine has to realise that you will need the odd day off here and there to have hospital/GP visits.

My manager made the simple assumption that I was cured after being put on an insulin pump, this was explained to him by medical professionals and he still wouldnt have it. Unfortunately some people are ignorant to your medical situation. You maybe lucky trying to sit down and talk to him may help but in my case I had to go further with my problem...
Good luck IT freak (PS I work for one of the largest Computer manufacturers in the world so it dont matter who you work for you will still have hiccups)...


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## Kirsty81 (Dec 17, 2008)

When I first started working in my current job, I was risk assessed by our occupational health department as I do shift work and also lone-work for either 3 or 9 hours on some shifts. 
Although I say I lone-work, i work on the front desk of a police station and so although i am on my own, on the occasional quiet nights there are officers around, who sometimes will come and see me. For the first couple of times I was lone working my supervisor made sure someone checked on me at least once throughout my shift, but now there is nothing in place. 
My boyfriend worries about me as if anything was to happen to me i may not be found til someone comes in. 
But so far, its all been ok. I think companies don't want the hassle of problems that may arise if something happens.


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## annemarie08 (Dec 17, 2008)

*lone working.*

i think it's disgraceful that people are treated like this in the workplace in this day and age!!! it's discrimination which ever way you look at it. fight for you're rights, you did'nt let diabetes beat you don't let narrowminded bigotts beat you!!! p.s. kitemaster how did you get on yesterday when you went back to work??


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## kitemaster (Dec 17, 2008)

*Hi everyone*

Me and my big mouth! 
Its no better! Im still expected only 'today' to go ahead and work on my own in some dangerous locations. This has forced my hand now to inform the HSE as he even stipulated that he is more concerned about the expense to his cost centre than my health and safety. HSE will be contacting me tomorrow as this is going on too long and he has made another feable excuse that the risk assessment has to be altered and this cant be done till the new year. On that note he stated that as the issue has not been resolved im to carry on working wherever he thinks is safe for me....
Watch this space as the s**t hits the fan!!!!


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## kojack (Dec 17, 2008)

Shaun
This absolutely stinks as a classic case of attempted constructive dismissal.
You really do need union/legal advice on this issue.


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## diagonall (Dec 17, 2008)

I am really curious to know why you can not work alone?
Many diabetics live alone and also work alone.


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## kitemaster (Dec 18, 2008)

*Hi Type 1 Sue*

In answer to your question, it was deemed by OH and H&S appropriate for me as I am now on an insulin pump working in locations which have nuclear implications, live firearms and dangerous heights...
Yes seems odd for someone who works on pc equipment but I am based on one of our customers MOD sites. This means we can be working on submarines warships and general High risk areas. 
Also some of the areas we gain access to have no mobile phone or any form of radio communication because they are underground.
This coupled with disabling Hypo's puts me on the risk register...


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## diagonall (Dec 18, 2008)

kitemaster said:


> In answer to your question, it was deemed by OH and H&S appropriate for me as I am now on an insulin pump working in locations which have nuclear implications, live firearms and dangerous heights...
> Yes seems odd for someone who works on pc equipment but I am based on one of our customers MOD sites. This means we can be working on submarines warships and general High risk areas.
> Also some of the areas we gain access to have no mobile phone or any form of radio communication because they are underground.
> This coupled with disabling Hypo's puts me on the risk register...



As you are on an insulin pump you should not be having disabling hypos 
Have you read the book pumping insulin by John Walsh? If not you need too.
I assume you have the mis-fortune to go to Derriford pump clinic. If so then you need to learn all you can yourself. I found the pump consultant ignorant beyond belief 
What pump do you have?
If it's a spirit ask for a change of pump that has an IOB feature and a hypo manager. This will take the guess work out for you.
A pump is a fantastic tool as long as you learn to use it correctly. IE exercise cut your basal, carb counting must be on the ball. Basal must be spot on too.
Also if you are having disabling hypos how come you are allowed to drive?
I can not see you being allowed anywhere near live firearms it would be more than anyones jobs worth to let you unless you trained to do so. Subs and warships do not have amo laying around anyway and warships and subs are well guarded ie someone always about.
I worked under ground for many years for up to 8 hrs at a time with no mobile phone either. Couldn't see a problem. (This was MOD too).
My day job is on the farm I can go up to the top fields and not see anyone for many hrs. I could be ploughing/fencing. I also work around livestock. Which can be very dangerous at times but no quarter is given just because I am diabetic. I just get on with life. If I go low a few glucose tabs solve the problem and I carry on with what I am doing.
Hence why I was so curious as to why so much fuss is being made about you being diabetic.


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## angel30eyes (Dec 19, 2008)

*Safe work place*

Wow aren't you just a ray of sunshine type1_sue??? Does it matter why he is at risk or the fact that a fuss is being made, the point is that his company are obviously not doing their job properly with helping him be safe, that's why health and safety rules are there in the first place.


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## kitemaster (Dec 19, 2008)

*Type1 sue*

Hi

Obviously I appear to have offended you in some way many apologies!
Firstly yes I have read the book and it appears you are not aware that I stated my Hypo awareness is almost non existant. I was placed on a pump to reduce the amount of Hypo's.

I have only been on the pump for 3 months and all well and good my control is so much better.

You had a dig about my exercise routine I thought that 3 hours a day is quite adequate for someone my age.

Also im surprised you found Derrifords pump clinic no good. I have found them the total opposite and the consultant is well recognised and excellent with her prompt approach. 

The pump is definitely not a Spirit!

Which pump do you use?

You stipulate that I shouldnt drive with disabling hypo's, in all my life as a diabetic I have not had a disabling hypo in a car as driving a car uses little exertion compared with my work which I can be physically moving a hell of a load of kit over a very short period increasing my chances of Hypo's.

You must also realise this has never caused a problem before and it is my organisation requested this move and was not instigated by myself. 

I was happy to keep it all quiet and carry on as I have always done.

As regards live ammunition. I dont use it, but it is nearby.

As you are an expert on tne MOD you obviously know exactly how they behave in this day and age regarding H&S.

Anyway many apologies for upsetting you.


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## diagonall (Dec 19, 2008)

kitemaster said:


> Hi
> 
> Obviously I appear to have offended you in some way many apologies!
> Firstly yes I have read the book and it appears you are not aware that I stated my Hypo awareness is almost non existant. I was placed on a pump to reduce the amount of Hypo's.
> ...



I can assure you, you did not upset me. I was just so shocked as to what was going on with you.


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## kitemaster (Dec 19, 2008)

Hi T1 Sue

Ive got the minimed paradigm 722 I was offered the chance to go on the cozmo but after talking to the manufacturer about the guarantee of the waterproof rating IPX8 not being guaranteed... I decided it wasnt for me.

You say wait to get to the 4th and 5th month when you get to use all the functions of the pump.

That seems a long time compared with the 2 weeks they enabled everything on the pump for me. N.B. I have an unfair advantage as I worked for the manufacturer for quite a few years...

Do you know of anyone who has lost their license through 2 disabling hypos because I dont know any diabetics at all who have lost their licenses through hypos.

Ive just spoken to DVLA and they have stated you can lose your license after one disabling hypo in a vehicle but it depends on all circumstances and no one case is identical.


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## diagonall (Dec 19, 2008)

kitemaster said:


> Hi T1 Sue
> 
> Ive got the minimed paradigm 722 I was offered the chance to go on the cozmo but after talking to the manufacturer about the guarantee of the waterproof rating IPX8 not being guaranteed... I decided it wasnt for me.
> Someone lost their cozmo river rafting and found it a week later fully submerged. It was fine. My friend goes swiming with his still attached. Cozmo has so many more features. I love the hypo manager best of all though.
> ...


So I gather, that's why it's paramount you test before getting behind the wheel. This proves you ok when you set out.


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## kitemaster (Dec 20, 2008)

*Hi T1*

I saw the article about the rafter who lost his pump in the states and retrieved it later on.  But the manufacturer wont guarantee the rating on the pump which is what dissapointed me, if it leaks you will have difficulty claiming for a new one. The Cozmo is a good pump though and if it wasnt for that point I would of gone for it.

Please remember this thread was started about grief I am getting at work on not pump issues there are two threads running at this moment which are discussing pumps.

Thankyou...


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## kitemaster (Dec 21, 2008)

*Its all gone quiet!*

Hi everyone 
Looks like the problem wont be resolved until the new year now with xmas coming etc. 
Im on leave soon anyway hooray and wont be going back to the new year...

I would like to wish everyone a happy xmas and a prosperous new year.
Remember to eat well and drink in moderation.....


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## kitemaster (Dec 28, 2008)

*Back to work soon*

Just for an update 
Back to work on the 5th Jan. Should prove interesting as our H&S manager is visiting me and giving my manager an audit! 
I shall keep everyone updated as to what is said....
Have a Happy New Year


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## kojack (Dec 28, 2008)

Thanks for the update Shaun.
Enjoy your break and here's hoping you have a smoother ride in 2009


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## kitemaster (Jan 10, 2009)

*Update on 'Grief at work'*

Well on Friday 9th of Jan H&S manager visited our office and attempted to get te manager to explain his greivances only to find after the H&S manager left the office he still insists on failing to sign the Risk assessment.

All other parties: OH, HR, H&S fully support the RA, so they have been left with no alternative now but to take action against him for failure to comply with company legislation.

So it looks like this is going to gon for a while longer.

I have been told to stick to the RA and not to be bullied into doing something not covered in the RA. 

If I am forced by my manager to do something out of the ordinary I have been told to leave site and immediately inform my managers boss. 

This is getting so bad now! Unfotunately by repeating myself I can only say this is the worst I have been treated in the 32 odd years of being Diabetic.


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## kojack (Jan 10, 2009)

As I said in a previous post  Shaun, what he is doing amounts to constructive dismissal.
Someone senior surely sees this.
I realise this is stressful but don't be bullied into anything stupid. Work, even specialist MOD work is getting hard to come by.


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## Northerner (Jan 11, 2009)

Hi Shaun,

Just wanted to post a message of support really. What on earth does your manager hope to achieve? Surely he realises that his cause - whatever that is - is hopeless - how on earth does someone so stupid get to be a manager?

Good luck and thank you for posting all this, I'm sure it will help many others who may encounter similar difficulties.


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## kitemaster (Jan 11, 2009)

*Hi Kojack*

Yes you are right it is very serious for him, I think they maybe waiting for him to mess up completely to give a rock solid reason for dismissal. 
Certain statements have been made to me that they are gravely concerned about his behaviour overall.


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## paulnicholls (Jan 11, 2009)

Kite if you need some legal advice, message me, I'll be pleased to help you free of charge mate (I'm a Solicitor). 

I've not read the entire thread, but am happy to spare half an hour or so.

Paul.


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## kitemaster (Jan 17, 2009)

*At last a result*

Well he has signed it but after taking his time to do so he still insists he doesnt understand it! Ive sat down with him and tried explaining it to him in laymans language using easy to understand examples. I thought he might of understood it but within 48 hours he got in my car and said whatis exactly  wrong with you? Duh Im a Diabetic! I think in some cases there are people who are unable to take in basic information. He is still up for a big ticking off because of his personal comments about my health. I am also speaking to my solicitor to see if there is any case to argue now.


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## kojack (Jan 17, 2009)

Thanks for the update Shaun. Sounds as if he has heard warning bells; perhaps for him, too late


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