# NHS Low Calorie Diet - Type 2 Remission Programme - Oviva (aka Newcastle)



## Kreator

Hi All,

25/08/2021 - Link: https://www.england.nhs.uk/diabetes/treatment-care/low-calorie-diets/ - Includes links at the bottom to DiRECT Year 1, DiRECT Year 2 & DROPLET Trials 

25/08/2021 - Link: https://oviva.com/uk/en/programme/diabetes-remission/#join - This explains the programme specific to Oviva

Hope everyone is safe & well!

Copied from my post from the newbie section, and thought it would be better to re-post into the weight loss section...

Just joined the forum after being diagnosed with type 2 in 2018...found this forum and have been hooked ever since! - some really interesting views and advise, and great to read so many people's positive comments...

This disease is so complicated! - The last 3 years have been a rollercoaster, and I'm sure there's more to come...

Initial Type 2 Diagnosis HbA1c 88 in 2018, immediately bought a blood glucose monitor to see what foods would set me off, 3 months later 52, then hovering between 45 (once) to 47-48 every blood test...Metformin max dose all the way through - 2000mg

So finally took the plunge further to get onto the NHS Low Calorie Diet Diabetes Remission Programme provided by Oviva...which I pushed my DN for...

First HbA1c since being on the shakes - 42 without Metformin...Fasting Blood Glucose mainly around 4.2 daily - some slighlty slower, some slightly higher, but good all round...

Initial start weight 77.5Kg - 5ft 4" - The NHS program is provided by Oviva - I was told target weight was 62.5Kg - what?!! - there'll be nothing left of me I said! - In hindsight - there's still plenty of me left...!

10 weeks in and managed to lose 11Kg (Weight now at 66.5Kg), 2 weeks to go on full TDR, and feeling ok about things generally - It's not easy though...!

Bought Roy Taylor's book 'Life Without Diabetes' - such an interesting read

Hardest part to come I think - food re-introduction and food maintenance...lets see...

One thing for sure though, this forum has helped me immensely, thank you!


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## travellor

Sounds excellent.
Congratulations.
I reversed mine the same way.
I found the diet broke all my old bad habits.
I wanted the ability to eat any type of food, which I now have, and opted for a Mediterranean style diet, fairly low fat to keep the calories down, minimal saturated fats for cholesterol control, seems to work well for me.


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## Kreator

travellor said:


> Sounds excellent.
> Congratulations.
> I reversed mine the same way.
> I found the diet broke all my old bad habits.
> I wanted the ability to eat any type of food, which I now have, and opted for a Mediterranean style diet, fairly low fat to keep the calories down, minimal saturated fats for cholesterol control, seems to work well for me.


Indeed, since being diagnosed myself I've analysed myself in ways I'd never imagined in terms of relationship with food, and gradually found a happy medium, but could never quite go that extra mile until starting the shakes - the break from food has given me the opportunity to really start that relationship all over again, which I think at the moment I can see the wood through the trees - only time will tell, but for sure, Mediterranean seems to be the way for me also...

I had been on Statins up until a couple of weeks ago until I asked my GP if I could stop based on lifestyle changes - so no meds currently and more to the point no symptoms either...

I feel for me It's a life journey not a race, and whatever works for the individual is the key


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## Drummer

Kreator said:


> Hi All,
> This disease is so complicated! - The last 3 years have been a rollercoaster, and I'm sure there's more to come...
> 
> Initial Type 2 Diagnosis HbA1c 88 in 2018, immediately bought a blood glucose monitor to see what foods would set me off, 3 months later 52, then hovering between 45 (once) to 47-48 every blood test...Metformin max dose all the way through - 2000mg
> 
> One thing for sure though, this forum has helped me immensely, thank you!


Actually ordinary type two diabetes is incredibly simple - we can't cope with the amount of carbohydrate we are advised to eat.


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## Kreator

Drummer said:


> Actually ordinary type two diabetes is incredibly simple - we can't cope with the amount of carbohydrate we are advised to eat.


Yep, once you go over your own personal fat threshold I couldn't agree more...

For me, it's so far been a journey of 3 years since being diagnosed, learning more each and every day. There is for sure still more learning to come!

Looking forward to the next step of the jouney, I'll update as and when I can


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## travellor

Kreator said:


> Yep, once you go over your own personal fat threshold I couldn't agree more...
> 
> For me, it's so far been a journey of 3 years since being diagnosed, learning more each and every day. There is for sure still more learning to come!
> 
> Looking forward to the next step of the jouney, I'll update as and when I can


You sound like you had a reasonable weight in the first place. I lost around five stone to get on top of mine!


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## Kreator

travellor said:


> You sound like you had a reasonable weight in the first place. I lost around five stone to get on top of mine!


Well, yea that's the thing, I'd considered myself overweight for years, gained some, lost some, gained it again, went up to 15st at one point, generally getting it down to 12 and a half stone as a standing weight, then T2 diagnosis at around 13st...

As I'm only 5ft 4" in height, that's quite visible for a shortie!

5st lost is a great achievement you should be proud of!

For me, 2st lost feels great, and as we're all in the same boat in terms of T2, any weight lost overall for anyone is an achievement, we should all be proud of


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## travellor

Don't get me wrong, you had a great weight loss, I was thinking more I was very seriously overweight, and morbidly obese, so a prime candidate for the low calorie diet.
There has been a lot of speculation on here recently about whether it could help those who weren't in the same state, it's good to hear it worked for you.
(I think we had about the same target though!)


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## Kreator

Interesting viewpoint, however the DiRECT trial was for people with a bmi 27-45, the pilot I'm on is for people with a bmi over 27 - mine was around 30 (bordering on obese) - Michael Mosely didn't consider himself to be overweight but he still had T2...

The ReTUNE study is for people with a bmi of less than 27, so results of this study will be interesting...

In terms of T2, I was in the same state, just a different weight that's all...


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## Eddy Edson

Kreator said:


> Interesting viewpoint, however the DiRECT trial was for people with a bmi 27-45, the pilot I'm on is for people with a bmi over 27 - mine was around 30 (bordering on obese) - Michael Mosely didn't consider himself to be overweight but he still had T2...
> 
> The ReTUNE study is for people with a bmi of less than 27, so results of this study will be interesting...
> 
> In terms of T2, I was in the same state, just a different weight that's all...


I wonder when ReTUNE will report? Last I heard (ages ago) it was understandably delayed due to the plague.

I had a BMI of 25 point something at DX & got rid of my T2 by losing ~10kg.


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## Kreator

Eddy Edson said:


> I wonder when ReTUNE will report? Last I heard (ages ago) it was understandably delayed due to the plague.
> 
> I had a BMI of 25 point something at DX & got rid of my T2 by losing ~10kg.


If I'm honest, I'm not sure, I just knew it existed - I'm sure I saw somewhere that they are actively looking for suitable candidates at the moment though?

Good for you, feels good to shed the weight huh?!

Week 12 for me - final week of shakes (Optifast for me) - this morning managed somehow to lose another 1.1Kg, so weight now at 65.4Kg - total weight loss in 11 weeks of 12.1Kg - one week to go!

if there's one thing I can say though is that after 3 years of putting my foot in the water and gently controlling my HbA1c, it feels so much better to just go for it!

I'll let you know final weight at the end of week 12, then to see if I can mantain it!


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## Kreator

I should point out though, I'm not yet officially in Remission, but well on the way hopefully....


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## Weekender

Kreator said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Hope everyone is safe & well!
> 
> Copied from my post from the newbie section, and thought it would be better to re-post into the weight loss section...
> 
> Just joined the forum after being diagnosed with type 2 in 2018...found this forum and have been hooked ever since! - some really interesting views and advise, and great to read so many people's positive comments...
> 
> This disease is so complicated! - The last 3 years have been a rollercoaster, and I'm sure there's more to come...
> 
> Initial Type 2 Diagnosis HbA1c 88 in 2018, immediately bought a blood glucose monitor to see what foods would set me off, 3 months later 52, then hovering between 45 (once) to 47-48 every blood test...Metformin max dose all the way through - 2000mg
> 
> So finally took the plunge further to get onto the NHS Low Calorie Diet Diabetes Remission Programme provided by Oviva...which I pushed my DN for...
> 
> First HbA1c since being on the shakes - 42 without Metformin...Fasting Blood Glucose mainly around 4.2 daily - some slighlty slower, some slightly higher, but good all round...
> 
> Initial start weight 77.5Kg - 5ft 4" - The NHS program is provided by Oviva - I was told target weight was 62.5Kg - what?!! - there'll be nothing left of me I said! - In hindsight - there's still plenty of me left...!
> 
> 10 weeks in and managed to lose 11Kg (Weight now at 66.5Kg), 2 weeks to go on full TDR, and feeling ok about things generally - It's not easy though...!
> 
> Bought Roy Taylor's book 'Life Without Diabetes' - such an interesting read
> 
> Hardest part to come I think - food re-introduction and food maintenance...lets see...
> 
> One thing for sure though, this forum has helped me immensely, thank you!


Hi Kreator, those results sound great. I'm just about to read the rest of the thread, very interested


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## Kreator

Weekender said:


> Hi Kreator, those results sound great. I'm just about to read the rest of the thread, very interested


Hi Weekender, believe it or not, your thread alone has given me huge inspiration and confidence to keep going myself! - I aplaud your attention to detail, and thank you!

In terms of finger prick fasting blood glucose levels (I don't test any other time for now) - mine have been consistent over 10 weeks - 4.1 / 4.2 (The first week was adjusting down to this level) - I guess it's kind of expected as well...I'm on a Low Calorie diet! - I can only wait and see once I start eating real food again what they average out at day to day...Next HbA1c test is due in September, so hoping to see that down in the mid - high 30's, but only time will tell I guess! (At that point, I will know if I'm fully in Remission)


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## nonethewiser

Well done Kreator, wife did similar, told borderline type 2 then went on to lose 5st doing Slimming World diet, later bloods results came back she was no longer prediabetic. Shows what can be done with will & determination.


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## Weekender

Kreator said:


> Hi Weekender, believe it or not, your thread alone has given me huge inspiration and confidence to keep going myself! - I aplaud your attention to detail, and thank you!
> 
> In terms of finger prick fasting blood glucose levels (I don't test any other time for now) - mine have been consistent over 10 weeks - 4.1 / 4.2 (The first week was adjusting down to this level) - I guess it's kind of expected as well...I'm on a Low Calorie diet! - I can only wait and see once I start eating real food again what they average out at day to day...Next HbA1c test is due in September, so hoping to see that down in the mid - high 30's, but only time will tell I guess! (At that point, I will know if I'm fully in Remission)


Well I'm chuffed, thanks for the feedback. My fasting blood sugars are all over the place, a consistent 4.1 / 4.2 would be really encouraging. I'm very keen to get my HbA1c results - hopefully Friday.
It may be that my fasting blood sugars are all over the place because I'm not as vigilant about carbs as someone like @Drummer would recommend. 
Keep going - September is just several weeks way so hopefully it's a motivator to stay strong


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## Weekender

Weekender said:


> Well I'm chuffed, thanks for the feedback. My fasting blood sugars are all over the place, a consistent 4.1 / 4.2 would be really encouraging. I'm very keen to get my HbA1c results - hopefully Friday.
> It may be that my fasting blood sugars are all over the place because I'm not as vigilant about carbs as someone like @Drummer would recommend.
> Keep going - September is just several weeks way so hopefully it's a motivator to stay strong


I took my inspiration from @ColinUK btw - so it's good to keep passing the torch along


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## Kreator

Weekender said:


> I took my inspiration from @ColinUK btw - so it's good to keep passing the torch along


Yep, I read @ColinUK's post also with avid interest! Keep up the great work both of you!

For me, well 12 weeks done...Another 0.8Kg lost - so total weight sits at 64.6Kg - Total 12.9Kg lost in 12 weeks! - Blood Glucose levels remain constant at 4.0 this morning!

So now for real food - Week 1 is 2 shakes, then one evening meal @400 Cals - A Michael Mosely Chicken Tikka for me tonight!

Week 2 will be 1 shake, normal breakfast 400 Cals, and 400 Cals evening meal

Week 3/4 will be fully food based working my way up in Calories to 1500 Cals per day

After this will be fully food based - watching my weight then hopefully full rubber stamped remission!

Believe I'm expected to regain some weight as I start food, but only time will tell...I'm optimistic yet aprehentious about the next phase, but happy to see what's in store...

Can't wait to start eating food again though! - Obviously not as much, but lets see...

I'll update as it goes...


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## Kreator

So, week 1 on the start of real food...

So many tastes, so many new things to er...digest lol!

So another weight loss - only 0.3Kg this week, but I'll definately take that as I was really full after eating a 400 Calorie meal every night! - Some nights it was more like a 600-700 Cal meal, so 1200 max Cals per day..

Fasting Blood Sugar levels again low 4's - even a 3.8! - not worried about this though as it shows things are coming back to normal - no meds remember....

Although I didn't lose much weight - ...and this isn't now the aim... - I felt much better in myself - not gaunt looking and rosier cheeks - I also felt like I could run a marathon - I didn't! - but I did 10,000 steps each both Saturday & Sunday (Some of it rigorous) and couldn't be happier to be honest!

One thing I did find though was - and not sure why I didn't realise before! - is that my blood glucose levels dropped to normal low 4 levels after dinner with rigorous exercise - lol makes sense - that's what you burn off...Glucose!...

Really good to be eating again, and not gain weight (for now!) - this week - only one shake per day - 300Cal Breakfast & an evening meal - lets see what this week brings...

Expecting my weight to stabilise - little incriments of weight gain / weight loss, but lets see....

I'll update again next week


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## Kreator

Week 14 - And another week done - 1.1Kg lost this week! - I feel like a kid again, so much energy to burn off, walking more and more each day, cycling - it's ridiculous!

Weight loss as at week 14 - 63.2Kg

Starting Weight - 77.5Kg
Week 14 Weight - 53.2Kg
Total Weight Loss = 14.3Kg

I feel so much more full of energy now - I'm now on full food intake - roughly 1200 - 1500 Cals a day for now

All done! - Now just to maintain it which at the moment feels totally within my own mind, body & tummy!


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## Kreator

There is so much information out there which can be conflicting and confusing at times, but bare bones for my DT2 remission is lose 15Kg or 15% weight if under 80Kg - fast - 12 weeks of shakes, learn all about food all over again, then start eating generally healthily - T Plate method, Mediterranean, the occasional fast food, etc. - I don't intend to watch carbs now - the main thing now is to maintain my weight to between 62.5Kg - 65Kg - forever...

You have to be commited and believe to achieve this, but as you come out the other side, you won't want to go back!


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## travellor

Kreator said:


> There is so much information out there which can be conflicting and confusing at times, but bare bones for my DT2 remission is lose 15Kg or 15% weight if under 80Kg - fast - 12 weeks of shakes, learn all about food all over again, then start eating generally healthily - T Plate method, Mediterranean, the occasional fast food, etc. - I don't intend to watch carbs now - the main thing now is to maintain my weight to between 62.5Kg - 65Kg - forever...
> 
> You have to be commited and believe to achieve this, but as you come out the other side, you won't want to go back!


Congratulations.
It's a good feeling.
Best thing is, you know that if you do overeat, and the weight starts to creep up, you just need to reign it in a little, and you're back on track again!


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## Weekender

Kreator said:


> So, week 1 on the start of real food...
> 
> So many tastes, so many new things to er...digest lol!
> 
> So another weight loss - only 0.3Kg this week, but I'll definately take that as I was really full after eating a 400 Calorie meal every night! - Some nights it was more like a 600-700 Cal meal, so 1200 max Cals per day..
> 
> Fasting Blood Sugar levels again low 4's - even a 3.8! - not worried about this though as it shows things are coming back to normal - no meds remember....
> 
> Although I didn't lose much weight - ...and this isn't now the aim... - I felt much better in myself - not gaunt looking and rosier cheeks - I also felt like I could run a marathon - I didn't! - but I did 10,000 steps each both Saturday & Sunday (Some of it rigorous) and couldn't be happier to be honest!
> 
> One thing I did find though was - and not sure why I didn't realise before! - is that my blood glucose levels dropped to normal low 4 levels after dinner with rigorous exercise - lol makes sense - that's what you burn off...Glucose!...
> 
> Really good to be eating again, and not gain weight (for now!) - this week - only one shake per day - 300Cal Breakfast & an evening meal - lets see what this week brings...
> 
> Expecting my weight to stabilise - little incriments of weight gain / weight loss, but lets see....
> 
> I'll update again next week


Sounding good, your blood sugars are brilliant


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## Weekender

Kreator said:


> Week 14 - And another week done - 1.1Kg lost this week! - I feel like a kid again, so much energy to burn off, walking more and more each day, cycling - it's ridiculous!
> 
> Weight loss as at week 14 - 63.2Kg
> 
> Starting Weight - 77.5Kg
> Week 14 Weight - 53.2Kg
> Total Weight Loss = 14.3Kg
> 
> I feel so much more full of energy now - I'm now on full food intake - roughly 1200 - 1500 Cals a day for now
> 
> All done! - Now just to maintain it which at the moment feels totally within my own mind, body & tummy!


This is great to read, keep on keeping on


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## Kreator

travellor said:


> Congratulations.
> It's a good feeling.
> Best thing is, you know that if you do overeat, and the weight starts to creep up, you just need to reign it in a little, and you're back on track again!


That's exactly it!

At the moment though - midweek cheeky look on the scales looks like I may be in for some more weight loss, but not going to count this one as it's not a full week - but one thing - weight fluctuates all the time, so it's important not to be disheartened when it goes slightly the other way - I'm now on the edge of maintaining my weight within 2-3Kg's or so which feels totally achievable at the moment - I'm not looking to totally waste away!

I'll keep you all updated


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## nechama rotenberg

Kreator said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Hope everyone is safe & well!
> 
> Copied from my post from the newbie section, and thought it would be better to re-post into the weight loss section...
> 
> Just joined the forum after being diagnosed with type 2 in 2018...found this forum and have been hooked ever since! - some really interesting views and advise, and great to read so many people's positive comments...
> 
> This disease is so complicated! - The last 3 years have been a rollercoaster, and I'm sure there's more to come...
> 
> Initial Type 2 Diagnosis HbA1c 88 in 2018, immediately bought a blood glucose monitor to see what foods would set me off, 3 months later 52, then hovering between 45 (once) to 47-48 every blood test...Metformin max dose all the way through - 2000mg
> 
> So finally took the plunge further to get onto the NHS Low Calorie Diet Diabetes Remission Programme provided by Oviva...which I pushed my DN for...
> 
> First HbA1c since being on the shakes - 42 without Metformin...Fasting Blood Glucose mainly around 4.2 daily - some slighlty slower, some slightly higher, but good all round...
> 
> Initial start weight 77.5Kg - 5ft 4" - The NHS program is provided by Oviva - I was told target weight was 62.5Kg - what?!! - there'll be nothing left of me I said! - In hindsight - there's still plenty of me left...!
> 
> 10 weeks in and managed to lose 11Kg (Weight now at 66.5Kg), 2 weeks to go on full TDR, and feeling ok about things generally - It's not easy though...!
> 
> Bought Roy Taylor's book 'Life Without Diabetes' - such an interesting read
> 
> Hardest part to come I think - food re-introduction and food maintenance...lets see...
> 
> One thing for sure though, this forum has helped me immensely, thank you!


 I live in London and would love to know how you got referred to this NHS diet programme by Oviva. Do to drink shakes on it instead of food? Nechama


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## grovesy

You could ask at your GP surgery but some of these programmes are not available to all areas.


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## Kreator

nechama rotenberg said:


> I live in London and would love to know how you got referred to this NHS diet programme by Oviva. Do to drink shakes on it instead of food? Nechama


There's a rather long story to that one, but since being diagnosed I knew of being able to put T2D into remission form reading on here, so set about that with meds - I asked my DN late last year - erm so I'd like to come off my meds as I'm looking to put my T2D into remission and the response then was 'we don't like to take T2D's off the medication' - I asked, so how do I put it into remission then?! - she didn't give a response...

Looking back on it - the NHS were only looking to keep it in control all along!

...then March this year, I asked again, and she handed me a couple of pages about the pilot and referred me to it!

So I pushed for it in a way, but I do believe the whole NHS eco system surrouding T2D treatment is changing for the better, so my advise would be push, push, push!

Indeed, you have the shakes instead of food (Fibre supplement needed to avoid constipation) - no food allowed for max 12 weeks - or 15Kg / 15% weight loss or your own goal, and only 100ml of milk per day - and I drink a lot of white coffee, so had to have it black mostly which was fine for me - I don't take sugar anyway now since diagnosis...

Fluid intake of around 2.5 litres a day to keep you from being hydrated

All sounds pretty hardcore, but after a week or so, it's so easy you don't really need to think about it - I started off saying i'll do this for 8 weeks, but the rewards were so great that I carried through for the whole 12 weeks

Like I said, you need to be motivated to do it for sure, but the rewards are immense!

So push for it, as I'm sure NHS attitudes are changing slowly but surely...


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## Kreator

grovesy said:


> You could ask at your GP surgery but some of these programmes are not available to all areas.


that's a good point there @grovesy indeed - and yes asking / pushing your GP surgery to see what else might be available also should help


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## Weekender

nechama rotenberg said:


> I live in London and would love to know how you got referred to this NHS diet programme by Oviva. Do to drink shakes on it instead of food? Nechama


Hi @nechama rotenberg I hope you are able to get support on the NHS. I'm in Wales and they don't run any T2D remission by weight loss programs here. As @Kreator says, it is shake (meal replacement)  based. The reason for this is that shakes are considered easier than preparing meals that add to around 800 calories a day. There are diets you can follow that achieve this with real food, I forget which forum member recommended it, but there is a Mike Mosley one. The Newcastle diet sheet (Professor Roy Taylor)  is available on this Link
I've also achieved remission with the meal replacement shakes. I reintroduced food after about 8 weeks, I'm now in week 13 and still losing weight.
You can get some good introductory offers. I used Optifast and Exante. the price is not dissimilar to what you would pay for food.

If you want to get started, I would read one of the Roy Taylor books
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Life-Without-Diabetes-definitive-understanding/dp/1780724098
Your Simple Guide to Reversing Type 2 Diabetes
Watch the video here
and search the many great resources on this website

@Kreator is right, after the first few days, you don't feel hungry, and it's actually good fun watching the weight drop off, your blood sugars and blood pressure improve and having tons more energy
Give it a go


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## Kreator

@Weekender, you took the words right out of my mouth! - well said, and I probably couldn't have put that better myself


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## travellor

Weekender said:


> Hi @nechama rotenberg I hope you are able to get support on the NHS. I'm in Wales and they don't run any T2D remission by weight loss programs here. As @Kreator says, it is shake (meal replacement)  based. The reason for this is that shakes are considered easier than preparing meals that add to around 800 calories a day. There are diets you can follow that achieve this with real food, I forget which forum member recommended it, but there is a Mike Mosley one. The Newcastle diet sheet (Professor Roy Taylor)  is available on this Link
> I've also achieved remission with the meal replacement shakes. I reintroduced food after about 8 weeks, I'm now in week 13 and still losing weight.
> You can get some good introductory offers. I used Optifast and Exante. the price is not dissimilar to what you would pay for food.
> 
> If you want to get started, I would read one of the Roy Taylor books
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Life-Without-Diabetes-definitive-understanding/dp/1780724098
> Your Simple Guide to Reversing Type 2 Diabetes
> Watch the video here
> and search the many great resources on this website
> 
> @Kreator is right, after the first few days, you don't feel hungry, and it's actually good fun watching the weight drop off, your blood sugars and blood pressure improve and having tons more energy
> Give it a go



One of the main reasons I did the shake route was because that is the only one that has been scientifically trialled.
Initially the shakes were chosen as it was noticed patients down for bariatric surgery were initially put on a shake diet, and it was noticed they were reversing their diabetes before surgery.
I used the Tesco shakes, which worked out very cost effective, on a three for two offer!

The other benefit I found from not eating was I reset my tastes, so I had the ability to reintroduce food to form a much healthier diet for the future.
I'm not sure that would have been achievable if I had simply reduced portions, mildly tweaked my diet, but kept eating the same sorts of food.


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## Weekender

travellor said:


> One of the main reasons I did the shake route was because that is the only one that has been scientifically trialled.
> Initially the shakes were chosen as it was noticed patients down for bariatric surgery were initially put on a shake diet, and it was noticed they were reversing their diabetes before surgery.
> I used the Tesco shakes, which worked out very cost effective, on a three for two offer!
> 
> The other benefit I found from not eating was I reset my tastes, so I had the ability to reintroduce food to form a much healthier diet for the future.
> I'm not sure that would have been achievable if I had simply reduced portions, mildly tweaked my diet, but kept eating the same sorts of food.


Yes @travellor you're right, I doubt 'cutting down' would have worked for me.  After the 8 or so weeks on the shakes, I completely stopped seeing the point of bread. Before this we were home baking and eating a loaf or two a day (between 4 of us). I feel the some about rice and potatoes too.
It has a virtuous knock on effect: no bread = no toast and therefore no peanut butter,  jam or marmalade. No "I'll just have a cheese sandwich or a slice of toast because I'm bored". Crackers, breakfast cereal are also history. Most of the dumb food choices have gone from the house. I'm still enjoying food. I had a nice mushroom, pepper, spinach, ham and cheese omelette this morning - no toast. I always felt toast was essential with an omelette, but not any more.


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## Kreator

Yep, I was the same, 3 years of 'keeping T2D under control' was fine with some sense of cutting food intake, but more action was needed and for me the shakes have done the trick (so far!), and resetting your whole thinking about food is a major part of that - I love spicy things - always have - difference now is I'll have a couple of boiled eggs & salad for lunch with chilli flakes as an example - the thought even occurred to me that hang on - this is a vegetarian lunch - I swore blind I'd never go vegetarian, yet there I was sitting there with no meat in sight!

Whether it's NHS funded or not, it's definately the way forward for sure


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## Drummer

This was, of course, every day knowledge for Dr Atkins and his patients, that they were reversing their type 2 or lowering insulin needs and seeing weightloss like never before - but back in the last century no one seemed at all interested in such a fad diet....


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## travellor

Drummer said:


> This was, of course, every day knowledge for Dr Atkins and his patients, that they were reversing their type 2 or lowering insulin needs and seeing weightloss like never before - but back in the last century no one seemed at all interested in such a fad diet....


Not really.
Atkins was nothing like the Newcastle Diet.
No proof, no scientific trials, nothing. Just another fad diet as you say.


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## Drummer

travellor said:


> Not really.
> Atkins was nothing like the Newcastle Diet.
> No proof, no scientific trials, nothing. Just another fad diet as you say.


I meant that people doing the Atkins diet were seeing reversion of type 2 lowering insulin needs and losing weight, permanently and easily, but that was ignored by those who thought they knew better. Tens of thousands of people, so much useful date, just dismissed.


----------



## travellor

Drummer said:


> I meant that people doing the Atkins diet were seeing reversion of type 2 lowering insulin needs and losing weight, permanently and easily, but that was ignored by those who thought they knew better. Tens of thousands of people, so much useful date, just dismissed.


I've never seen that.
Do you have a link to the reports of the reversal of type 2?
Tens of thousands is even better than the Newcastle Diet, there must be some scientific data available to show it to be true, rather than hearsay?


----------



## Drummer

travellor said:


> I've never seen that.
> Do you have a link to the reports of the reversal of type 2?
> Tens of thousands is even better than the Newcastle Diet, there must be some scientific data available to show it to be true, rather than hearsay?


Try reading Dr Atkins New Diet Revolution - the information is all there from decades ago.


----------



## Eddy Edson

(This gets one thing wrong: Atkins' Diet Revolution 1st edition was 1972, not 1982.)

He and his successor low-carb spruikers have been read & followed more than the standard dietary guidelines (which approximately _nobody_ follows), with the popularity of low-carb in the general consciousness tracking closely with the rise in obesity & metabloc disease.  Low-carb is popular mainstream now and has been for years.  

Obviously, association isn't causation, but the case for low-carb causing the obesity epidemic is at least as strong as the case for standard dietary guidelines doing it.


----------



## Drummer

If you look up William Banting and his Letter on Corpulence, you will see how long doctors have been ridiculing low carb eating and those advocating it.
I used to work for Allied Lyons and the way they work out the recipes of products has nothing to do with feeding a healthy diet to people, all to do with minimal waste and maximum profits.


----------



## Weekender

I've attached  an article : _Low-carbohydrate ketogenic diets in body weight control: A recurrent plaguing issue of fad diets?_

I really enjoyed Dr Giles Yeo's RI lecture on calories. 

How We Got the Science of Weight Loss Wrong - with Giles Yeo

I'm cutting down on foods with high calorific availability (carbs).

The 'high fat' part of Atkins is not convincing


----------



## Kreator

Week 15 (Week 3 of food) - well...my weight is now 62.4Kg! - total weight lost = 15.1Kg over 15 weeks!

I also managed over 10,000 steps a day for the week - something I thought was impossible a few weeks ago! - something I didn't realise but there is a term 'exercise snacking' - this is exactly what I've been doing - I talk on the mobile a lot, so instead of just sitting there, I walk - so 10,000 steps a day is easily achievable throughout the day - no need to do it all in one go!

I've probably had around 1200 Cals a day this week - and still losing weight, so this week will be building that up to be able to maintain it - I aim to maintain to between 62Kg - 64Kg long term, and feel this should be pretty straighforward to achieve long term...

Fasting Blood Glucose levels again consistent - this morning 3.9 - it's normally around this figure now - I've also tested 2 hours after food - never above 6, so looks promising!

For me then;

15 Weeks lost 15.1 Kg (Average 1Kg per week) - starting weight = 77.5Kg

12 weeks shakes - 800 Cals Per Day
3 weeks food - building from 800 to 1000-1200 Cals Per Day + building activity up to over 10,000 steps a day

This week will be about maintaining my weight loss - building up to 1500 Cals per day - I won't push it for now but I'm looking to see what my daily calorie intake will be to be able to sustain long term - I feel as it is my intake has been generally sufficient to keep me satisfied, so I'm sure it won't take much 

As Roy Taylor says, You won't need as many calories as there's not as much of you to move around!

FYI - in terms of carbs - I'm not 'afraid' of them any more, I'm just 'more aware' and balance is the key, so while being T2D is a signal to cut down carbs as they can cause spikes, being in control means you can eat carbs - and you should - they're important for a balanced diet - but just be aware in diabetic ranges you are feeding your blood sugar as your body can't control it....

I'm now around the same weight as I was in my early twenties, feel fit as a fiddle, and not looking to change that any time soon


----------



## Deleted member 33972

Kreator said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Hope everyone is safe & well!
> 
> Copied from my post from the newbie section, and thought it would be better to re-post into the weight loss section...
> 
> Just joined the forum after being diagnosed with type 2 in 2018...found this forum and have been hooked ever since! - some really interesting views and advise, and great to read so many people's positive comments...
> 
> This disease is so complicated! - The last 3 years have been a rollercoaster, and I'm sure there's more to come...
> 
> Initial Type 2 Diagnosis HbA1c 88 in 2018, immediately bought a blood glucose monitor to see what foods would set me off, 3 months later 52, then hovering between 45 (once) to 47-48 every blood test...Metformin max dose all the way through - 2000mg
> 
> So finally took the plunge further to get onto the NHS Low Calorie Diet Diabetes Remission Programme provided by Oviva...which I pushed my DN for...
> 
> First HbA1c since being on the shakes - 42 without Metformin...Fasting Blood Glucose mainly around 4.2 daily - some slighlty slower, some slightly higher, but good all round...
> 
> Initial start weight 77.5Kg - 5ft 4" - The NHS program is provided by Oviva - I was told target weight was 62.5Kg - what?!! - there'll be nothing left of me I said! - In hindsight - there's still plenty of me left...!
> 
> 10 weeks in and managed to lose 11Kg (Weight now at 66.5Kg), 2 weeks to go on full TDR, and feeling ok about things generally - It's not easy though...!
> 
> Bought Roy Taylor's book 'Life Without Diabetes' - such an interesting read
> 
> Hardest part to come I think - food re-introduction and food maintenance...lets see...
> 
> One thing for sure though, this forum has helped me immensely, thank you!


Good luck on your own journey. you've did  brilliantly. I forgot to say. I have sleep apnoea and my hospital runs a weight loss clinic for diabetes.  I contacted them about diabetes and was told they only send diabetics to WWs but I sent a ps email saying I had sleep apnoea.  Apparently I should have been referred years ago for weight management help. I’ve been accepted on to the wait list and they will contact me when it’s time. Everything helps.


----------



## Eddy Edson

Kreator said:


> Week 15 (Week 3 of food) - well...my weight is now 62.4Kg! - total weight lost = 15.1Kg over 15 weeks!
> 
> I also managed over 10,000 steps a day for the week - something I thought was impossible a few weeks ago! - something I didn't realise but there is a term 'exercise snacking' - this is exactly what I've been doing - I talk on the mobile a lot, so instead of just sitting there, I walk - so 10,000 steps a day is easily achievable throughout the day - no need to do it all in one go!
> 
> I've probably had around 1200 Cals a day this week - and still losing weight, so this week will be building that up to be able to maintain it - I aim to maintain to between 62Kg - 64Kg long term, and feel this should be pretty straighforward to achieve long term...
> 
> Fasting Blood Glucose levels again consistent - this morning 3.9 - it's normally around this figure now - I've also tested 2 hours after food - never above 6, so looks promising!
> 
> For me then;
> 
> 15 Weeks lost 15.1 Kg (Average 1Kg per week) - starting weight = 77.5Kg
> 
> 12 weeks shakes - 800 Cals Per Day
> 3 weeks food - building from 800 to 1000-1200 Cals Per Day + building activity up to over 10,000 steps a day
> 
> This week will be about maintaining my weight loss - building up to 1500 Cals per day - I won't push it for now but I'm looking to see what my daily calorie intake will be to be able to sustain long term - I feel as it is my intake has been generally sufficient to keep me satisfied, so I'm sure it won't take much
> 
> As Roy Taylor says, You won't need as many calories as there's not as much of you to move around!
> 
> FYI - in terms of carbs - I'm not 'afraid' of them any more, I'm just 'more aware' and balance is the key, so while being T2D is a signal to cut down carbs as they can cause spikes, being in control means you can eat carbs - and you should - they're important for a balanced diet - but just be aware in diabetic ranges you are feeding your blood sugar as your body can't control it....
> 
> I'm now around the same weight as I was in my early twenties, feel fit as a fiddle, and not looking to change that any time soon


Brilliant!


----------



## Deleted member 33972

nechama rotenberg said:


> It was on my Hospital main  page and I contactad them. I live in Glasgow . Ive been accepted for sleep apnoea for specialist help.  They told me  for diabetes they would send me to Weight Watchers. I think they pay. I’m on a wait list for specialist help. Counselling and classes plus if I was fit which I doubt very much there’s gastric band surgery. I prefer the way I’m doing it with diet. I emailed and they said to get my doctor to confirm I’ve sleep apnoea. Good luck







nechama rotenberg said:


> I live in London and would love to know how you got referred to this NHS diet programme by Oviva. Do to drink shakes on it instead of food? Nechama


----------



## Weekender

Kreator said:


> Week 15 (Week 3 of food) - well...my weight is now 62.4Kg! - total weight lost = 15.1Kg over 15 weeks!
> 
> I also managed over 10,000 steps a day for the week - something I thought was impossible a few weeks ago! - something I didn't realise but there is a term 'exercise snacking' - this is exactly what I've been doing - I talk on the mobile a lot, so instead of just sitting there, I walk - so 10,000 steps a day is easily achievable throughout the day - no need to do it all in one go!
> 
> I've probably had around 1200 Cals a day this week - and still losing weight, so this week will be building that up to be able to maintain it - I aim to maintain to between 62Kg - 64Kg long term, and feel this should be pretty straighforward to achieve long term...
> 
> Fasting Blood Glucose levels again consistent - this morning 3.9 - it's normally around this figure now - I've also tested 2 hours after food - never above 6, so looks promising!
> 
> For me then;
> 
> 15 Weeks lost 15.1 Kg (Average 1Kg per week) - starting weight = 77.5Kg
> 
> 12 weeks shakes - 800 Cals Per Day
> 3 weeks food - building from 800 to 1000-1200 Cals Per Day + building activity up to over 10,000 steps a day
> 
> This week will be about maintaining my weight loss - building up to 1500 Cals per day - I won't push it for now but I'm looking to see what my daily calorie intake will be to be able to sustain long term - I feel as it is my intake has been generally sufficient to keep me satisfied, so I'm sure it won't take much
> 
> As Roy Taylor says, You won't need as many calories as there's not as much of you to move around!
> 
> FYI - in terms of carbs - I'm not 'afraid' of them any more, I'm just 'more aware' and balance is the key, so while being T2D is a signal to cut down carbs as they can cause spikes, being in control means you can eat carbs - and you should - they're important for a balanced diet - but just be aware in diabetic ranges you are feeding your blood sugar as your body can't control it....
> 
> I'm now around the same weight as I was in my early twenties, feel fit as a fiddle, and not looking to change that any time soon


That's fantastic @Kreator  - feeling as fit as a fiddle is the best metric


----------



## Kreator

jeanettem1 said:


> Good luck on your own journey. you've did  brilliantly. I forgot to say. I have sleep apnoea and my hospital runs a weight loss clinic for diabetes.  I contacted them about diabetes and was told they only send diabetics to WWs but I sent a ps email saying I had sleep apnoea.  Apparently I should have been referred years ago for weight management help. I’ve been accepted on to the wait list and they will contact me when it’s time. Everything helps.


I too had sleep apnoea - never officially diagnosed, but my wife knew I had it! - I also snored a lot too - niether of which I knew much about as I was sleeping! - although I'd wake up gasping for breath every now & again due to the sleep apnoea - not a whisper of either though since I lost weight! - good luck on WW's - like you say, everything helps


----------



## Deleted member 33972

Kreator said:


> I too had sleep apnoea - never officially diagnosed, but my wife knew I had it! - I also snored a lot too - niether of which I knew much about as I was sleeping! - although I'd wake up gasping for breath every now & again due to the sleep apnoea - not a whisper of either though since I lost weight! - good luck on WW's - like you say, everything helps


Good your sleep quality is better.I was 9st 8 and still had sleep _apnoea. Glad you’re over it. I use amachine. _


----------



## Deleted member 33972

nonethewiser said:


> Well done Kreator, wife did similar, told borderline type 2 then went on to lose 5st doing Slimming World diet, later bloods results came back she was no longer prediabetic. Shows what can be done with will & determination.


I’m doing the SW and Type 2 also and it’s great to know it’s worked for your wife. Since June 5 th I’ve lost 17.5 lbs sounds mahoosive in kgs 7.93  I’m gradually lowering my carbs as in potatoes and other starchy foods. I’ve mostly cut out visible  sugar except for a few hiccups. I have fatty liver disease and think it’s now caused the pancreas to not function with fat. From what I’ve read the fat comes away from the liver and pancreas and the pancreas starts making insulin again.  It’s quite a complicated process but Michael Mosley explains it well. Anyway you’ve given me encouragement that, for me,  I’m on the right track. I know someone who doesn’t bother much about what they eat, Type2 on medication and their legs are all inflamed, swollen and sores. It’s frightening me into doing something about it and have known even type 1 who didn’t take care of their diabetes.


----------



## Weekender

jeanettem1 said:


> I’m doing the SW and Type 2 also and it’s great to know it’s worked for your wife. Since June 5 th I’ve lost 17.5 lbs sounds mahoosive in kgs 7.93  I’m gradually lowering my carbs as in potatoes and other starchy foods. I’ve mostly cut out visible  sugar except for a few hiccups. I have fatty liver disease and think it’s now caused the pancreas to not function with fat. From what I’ve read the fat comes away from the liver and pancreas and the pancreas starts making insulin again.  It’s quite a complicated process but Michael Mosley explains it well. Anyway you’ve given me encouragement that, for me,  I’m on the right track. I know someone who doesn’t bother much about what they eat, Type2 on medication and their legs are all inflamed, swollen and sores. It’s frightening me into doing something about it and have known even type 1 who didn’t take care of their diabetes.


Hi @jeanettem1 well done with the weight loss, you are definitely on the right track and will see the benefits  hopefully your friends will be inspired to follow your example


----------



## Deleted member 33972

Help needed . I‘ve just got the gluconav meter. I put the test strip in and it’s working but when I put a strip in wth my blood in it it’s just pulsing and not giving me a reading. What end of the strip goes in? I can only get the long  end of the strip in. If I put it any other way it says error. THREE meters and I can’t get a reading. What am I doing wron?


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## Drummer

jeanettem1 said:


> Help needed . I‘ve just got the gluconav meter. I put the test strip in and it’s working but when I put a strip in wth my blood in it it’s just pulsing and not giving me a reading. What end of the strip goes in? I can only get the long  end of the strip in. If I put it any other way it says error. THREE meters and I can’t get a reading. What am I doing wron?


Are you putting the blood on the strip before putting it into the machine?
Check your manual, but the normal process is to insert the strip and let the device start up and then prompt you to suck up the blood.


----------



## Deleted member 33972

Drummer said:


> Are you putting the blood on the strip before putting it into the machine?
> Check your manual, but the normal process is to insert the strip and let the device start up and then prompt you to suck up the blood.


Thanks drummer. No I was doing it wrong. I was putting the blood on the strip. I found another info sheet that was better to follow. I got my first reading of 6.1 and had a cup of options just before. Quite chuffed. I’ve run out of fingers and a lot of strips. Thanks again. I will get used to it.I can set it and download from it.  Just not today lol


----------



## Kreator

jeanettem1 said:


> Thanks drummer. No I was doing it wrong. I was putting the blood on the strip. I found another info sheet that was better to follow. I got my first reading of 6.1 and had a cup of options just before. Quite chuffed. I’ve run out of fingers and a lot of strips. Thanks again. I will get used to it.I can set it and download from it.  Just not today lol


@jeanettem1 yep to begin with it can take a while to get used to! - Just as an FYI, wash your hands in warm water before you do the prick - 2 reasons - 1. If you've just eaten a sugary donut it will affect the reading! - 2. Warmer hands = better blood flow so it's easier to draw the blood onto the strip 

Also, don't worry so much about individual one off readings, it's an overall picture you're trying to build - some readings can be 'off' so don't worry too much about one spurious reading


----------



## Deleted member 33972

It’s like gettng blood out of a  stone  with me. I’ve to wear plastic gloves before surgery for anaesthetist


----------



## Kreator

Week 16 - Weight gained! - 0.1Kg!!! - So as good as maintained... - I had a week off work, eat out a couple of days, and have been mindful of what I've eaten - so after eating out with sensible ish choices, I've then clawed it back - so overall really pleased I've stopped losing weight and that the plan so far works  

Fasting Blood Glucose levels remain contstant - 3.9, 4.0, 4.1 etc. so it's working! - I also averaged 12,000 steps per day last week and it's getting easier to achieve, again being mindful about not sitting still - I can confirm that average walking doesn't help lose weight, but more rigorous out of breath walking/jogging does - however, just the steps alone keeps me feeling great!

I'll update in a couple of weeks when HbA1C results are in


----------



## Deleted member 33972

Kreator said:


> Hi All,
> 
> 25/08/2021 - Link: https://www.england.nhs.uk/diabetes/treatment-care/low-calorie-diets/ - Includes links at the bottom to DiRECT Year 1, DiRECT Year 2 & DROPLET Trials
> 
> 25/08/2021 - Link: https://oviva.com/uk/en/programme/diabetes-remission/#join - This explains the programme specific to Oviva
> 
> Hope everyone is safe & well!
> 
> Copied from my post from the newbie section, and thought it would be better to re-post into the weight loss section...
> 
> Just joined the forum after being diagnosed with type 2 in 2018...found this forum and have been hooked ever since! - some really interesting views and advise, and great to read so many people's positive comments...
> 
> This disease is so complicated! - The last 3 years have been a rollercoaster, and I'm sure there's more to come...
> 
> Initial Type 2 Diagnosis HbA1c 88 in 2018, immediately bought a blood glucose monitor to see what foods would set me off, 3 months later 52, then hovering between 45 (once) to 47-48 every blood test...Metformin max dose all the way through - 2000mg
> 
> So finally took the plunge further to get onto the NHS Low Calorie Diet Diabetes Remission Programme provided by Oviva...which I pushed my DN for...
> 
> First HbA1c since being on the shakes - 42 without Metformin...Fasting Blood Glucose mainly around 4.2 daily - some slighlty slower, some slightly higher, but good all round...
> 
> Initial start weight 77.5Kg - 5ft 4" - The NHS program is provided by Oviva - I was told target weight was 62.5Kg - what?!! - there'll be nothing left of me I said! - In hindsight - there's still plenty of me left...!
> 
> 10 weeks in and managed to lose 11Kg (Weight now at 66.5Kg), 2 weeks to go on full TDR, and feeling ok about things generally - It's not easy though...!
> 
> Bought Roy Taylor's book 'Life Without Diabetes' - such an interesting read
> 
> Hardest part to come I think - food re-introduction and food maintenance...lets see...
> 
> One thing for sure though, this forum has helped me immensely, thank you!


I’m too old for this programme and don’t live in the region. I have been accepted for a class based programme where I live but depends on Covid getting hospitals moving again.it’s very unlikely soon. Still plodding along in my own lost 20.5 lbs


----------



## mage 1

Kreator said:


> Week 16 - Weight gained! - 0.1Kg!!! - So as good as maintained... - I had a week off work, eat out a couple of days, and have been mindful of what I've eaten - so after eating out with sensible ish choices, I've then clawed it back - so overall really pleased I've stopped losing weight and that the plan so far works
> 
> Fasting Blood Glucose levels remain contstant - 3.9, 4.0, 4.1 etc. so it's working! - I also averaged 12,000 steps per day last week and it's getting easier to achieve, again being mindful about not sitting still - I can confirm that average walking doesn't help lose weight, but more rigorous out of breath walking/jogging does - however, just the steps alone keeps me feeling great!
> 
> I'll update in a couple of weeks when HbA1C results are in


Well done


----------



## everydayupsanddowns

jeanettem1 said:


> I’m too old for this programme and don’t live in the region. I have been accepted for a class based programme where I live but depends on Covid getting hospitals moving again.it’s very unlikely soon. Still plodding along in my own lost 20.5 lbs



Well done @jeanettem1 - that’s a terrific achievement!


----------



## Kreator

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Well done @jeanettem1 - that’s a terrific achievement!


Indeed, it just shows slightly different approaches around the same theme can achieve the same result Well done @jeanettem1


----------



## Kreator

Well, week whatever it is, and I'm still me and enjoying every bit too!

Over the last few weeks, I've averaged out at 0.5Kg loss, so as of Monday my weight was 61.9Kg, so I'm maintaining my weight loss...

If I feel I'm a little under, I'll bulk up a little (only a little) on food - if I feel I'm a little over I'll go a little (only a little) easier - I'm no longer concerned about food - I'm finding it quite easy really - mindful eating is the key as well as shocking myself at how many calories are in a Naan Bread! - Blimey!!! - So have less than half of one if I want to...

HbA1c Blood test was supposed to be today, but shortage of vials means I can't have one just yet - a couple of weeks to wait - but whatever the number - I know...I know I've kicked T2D well and truly into touch for now - Whenever I finger prick it's all normal - fasting / post prandial / after exercise etc...

The whole experience is working for me - have to be in the right mindset to not only carry it through with shakes but long term thinking about food, exercise, and general wellbeing

The whole thing is just a revelation to be honest 

I'll update once I can get a blood test and my HbA1c is known


----------



## Kreator

Managed to get a blood test appt...

...HbA1C is now...

37 

So - the whole experience worked for me - from 'good control' to no Diabetes in less than 5 months!

I now have the rest of my lifetime to keep doing what I've been doing over the last few weeks...

Mindful eating, sensible choices with food (mostly!), 10,000 steps a day generally and exercise whenever I feel like it...


----------



## mage 1

That is a fantastic result well done


----------



## travellor

Fantastic news!


----------



## Nayshiftin

Sounds great but just to have shakes would make me feel Id still be hungry all the time. I am so pleased it has helped some people.


----------



## travellor

Nayshiftin said:


> Sounds great but just to have shakes would make me feel Id still be hungry all the time. I am so pleased it has helped some people.


It doesn't. 
And best of all, it also breaks the chain associated with over eating.


----------



## ColinUK

Nayshiftin said:


> Sounds great but just to have shakes would make me feel Id still be hungry all the time. I am so pleased it has helped some people.


You think it would but you don't know for sure unless you try it. 
The shakes are incredibly filling but they do get dull. I use them for some meals during the day and also have "proper" food as that seems to work best for me.


----------



## Deleted member 33972

Hi I never realised this group was for the Oviva diet. I’m doing well on my SW diet and bg is getting lower every day. 5.2 - 7.1  I’m around 25 lbs off and just a few pounds to my 10% body weight.  Doctor is delighted with me but doesn’t want my sugars to go too low because of my age. 71. anyway, this is the group that supported me when I was first diagnosed. Thank you for putting up with me doing the BG monitor wrong . Hope you’re all doing well. I had cut out carbs and stopped losing and so very constipated. Now I’ve added them back in I’m losing weight again. Took a few weeks to stabilise


----------



## Leadinglights

jeanettem1 said:


> Hi I never realised this group was for the Oviva diet. I’m doing well on my SW diet and bg is getting lower every day. 5.2 - 7.1  I’m around 25 lbs off and just a few pounds to my 10% body weight.  Doctor is delighted with me but doesn’t want my sugars to go too low because of my age. 71. anyway, this is the group that supported me when I was first diagnosed. Thank you for putting up with me doing the BG monitor wrong . Hope you’re all doing well. I had cut out carbs and stopped losing and so very constipated. Now I’ve added them back in I’m losing weight again. Took a few weeks to stabilise


Well done for getting back on track.
I don't think this group is either for or against any particular dietary regime but is for people finding the best way for them and supporting them in that way.
I would say they are against some of the unproven wacky ideas that pop up on the internet that are designed to part people from their money.


----------



## trophywench

It is only this particular thread which is talking about Oviva specifically.


----------



## Deleted member 33972

Leadinglights said:


> Well done for getting back on track.
> I don't think this group is either for or against any particular dietary regime but is for people finding the best way for them and supporting them in that way.
> I would say they are against some of the unproven wacky ideas that pop up on the internet that are designed to part people from their money.


Thank you. I think that’s 13 weeks. I spoke to someone and I said I don’t want any secondary illness from it. She’s diabetic about 5 years. She said oh they just say that to frighten you! Honestly it’s as bad as opposition to Covid and vaccine!  I never realised I could be so strong  and yet I‘Ve not had alcohol since 1984 and cigarettes  from the Millenium so I guess I must have compensated with food. Just wish I could get a personally transplant lol


----------



## Deleted member 33972

nonethewiser said:


> Well done Kreator, wife did similar, told borderline type 2 then went on to lose 5st doing Slimming World diet, later bloods results came back she was no longer prediabetic. Shows what can be done with will & determination.


That’s what I’m doing SW and lost 25lbs in 13 weeks with colonoscopy in between had to break plan for over a week. Took out all carbs, terrible constipation and stopped  losing weight. Introduced them as advised and losing again.


----------



## Molly M

Great thread

huge congrats @Kreator - fab results - I am due to get my 3 month follow up HBA1C by the end of this month. I’ve just cut down my carbs and will be interested to see what my HBA1C will be this time around.


----------



## Nayshiftin

I wish there was a quick fix to weight problem. I tried to stick to my diet yesterday and failed miserably. I had something like 600 c over. It was over carb budget too as that's all I wanted. Sandwiches . I’ll try again today but wirh pain fat depression and not good blood readings they are not high so it makes no sense to me. Life doesn’t . Fat really makes you feel life is not worth living.


----------



## Deleted member 33972

Kreator said:


> Indeed, it just shows slightly different approaches around the same theme can achieve the same result Well done @jeanettem1


Thank you. You’re slightly ahead of me. I’m not very active either as I use mobility scooter. I had a colonoscopy and had to self isolate and no fibre whatsoever. White bread everything. It was horrible. I had a mad binge as I get kept in overnight for observation. Big joke. I went  for coffee to the shops in the hospital  and bought biscuits and goodness knows what.  After breakfast  I went home and right back on it. Took a week or 2 after to  stabilise my weight.   I’ve lost a few weeks really. Yes many roads lead to Rome as they say!  I eat well. Had bacon, 2 eggs, mushrooms , tomatoes, fruit yogurt , tangerines and strawberries for  breakfast. I don’t   go short but I do stay off those sweets n cakes!  Tried soft centre,  tiny, sugar free mints. Day later had stomach cramps and it was awful. I ate about 5 , good job I never ate any more. I’m not tempted by them now lol!  You’ve been a great help to me on this. Thank you


----------



## Deleted member 33972

Nayshiftin said:


> I wish there was a quick fix to weight problem. I tried to stick to my diet yesterday and failed miserably. I had something like 600 c over. It was over carb budget too as that's all I wanted. Sandwiches . I’ll try again today but wirh pain fat depression and not good blood readings they are not high so it makes no sense to me. Life doesn’t . Fat really makes you feel life is not worth living.


I’ve got a video doorbell and I feel great for what I’ve lost so far but I still look very fat on my videos. It’s not in my mind as my neighbours are a comparison. I can’t believe I never noticed how big I am. People would say oh you don’t look heavy! I believed them. It’s a pound at a time and we’re in this together. There’s more to life  than weight. May be if you really feel you can’t cope join an online slimming group the same as  I’ve did. Chin up, head held high! Today’s another Day!  Yesterday’s history and tomorrow‘s a mystery!


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## Leadinglights

jeanettem1 said:


> Thank you. You’re slightly ahead of me. I’m not very active either as I use mobility scooter. I had a colonoscopy and had to self isolate and no fibre whatsoever. White bread everything. It was horrible. I had a mad binge as I get kept in overnight for observation. Big joke. I went  for coffee to the shops in the hospital  and bought biscuits and goodness knows what.  After breakfast  I went home and right back on it. Took a week or 2 after to  stabilise my weight.   I’ve lost a few weeks really. Yes many roads lead to Rome as they say!  I eat well. Had bacon, 2 eggs, mushrooms , tomatoes, fruit yogurt , tangerines and strawberries for  breakfast. I don’t   go short but I do stay off those sweets n cakes!  Tried soft centre,  tiny, sugar free mints. Day later had stomach cramps and it was awful. I ate about 5 , good job I never ate any more. I’m not tempted by them now lol!  You’ve been a great help to me on this. Thank you


Sometimes the 'sugar free' products are full of artificial sweeteners which some people are very sensitive to and it causes an upset stomach. 
Be careful of the fruit yoghurts as they are often high carb, so you might be better to add your own fruit to a full fat Greek yoghurt.


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## Deleted member 33972

Thanks but they’re not putting my glucose up. I like Greek yogurt for curries and other things but not for treats. I think it’s the huge amount of sweets I ate b4 diagnosis. A woman did the programme at the hospital and came to SW she’s now reached her target weight. Hospital only kept her on weight loss for  short time.  I have a food  scanner also.  I make loads of 3% fat meatballs either in home made Italian sauce or do them like sausages with gravy and onions , mash and cabbage. My doctor is very pleased with me and what I’m doing! It seems for me it’s the weight loss that’s the key! I’m a lockdown diabetic lol I also have Options chocolate drinks!


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## grovesy

Some sugar free products can have a   laxative effects   when   eaten.   Many   having  small   print   on packaging the amounts.


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## Deleted member 33972

grovesy said:


> Some sugar free products can have a   laxative effects   when   eaten.   Many   having  small   print   on packaging the amounts.


They’re going into the bin. They’re about the size of your pinkie nail.  My eyesight is beyond  small print! I have to photograph with iPad and enlarged it on screen or Google the small print on packaging. Now there’s a tip for short sighted lol


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## Nayshiftin

If what you do is working I say hats off. If it’s not like me I need to change . Sometimes a tip to try can help another which is good as we are not all the same .


----------



## Jm.praxis

travellor said:


> Sounds excellent.
> Congratulations.
> I reversed mine the same way.
> I found the diet broke all my old bad habits.
> I wanted the ability to eat any type of food, which I now have, and opted for a Mediterranean style diet, fairly low fat to keep the calories down, minimal saturated fats for cholesterol control, seems to work well for me.


Thank goodness for some positive feedback that this is possible!


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## Nayshiftin

jeanettem1 said:


> I’m just going to delete my last post and  say to you take you’re own advice. What is it about losing 25 lbs in 13 weeks that’s wrong? It’s between myself and my doctor!


If you read what I wrote I say if it works fir you I take my hat off . I do NOT get where you are coming from . Well done . Forget what anyone says all tips are good. If it works for you. Good. What do you mean Excuse me. Why are you so defensive to me ?


----------



## Nayshiftin

jeanettem1 said:


> Did I tell you that I’m not feeling good? My neighbour was found dead on Thursday. He’d been in the house since Tuesday.  Myself, him and another neighbour all looked out for each other. He was the diabetic who wouldn’t do anything he was told and had very swollen legs with sores all over them.


Sorry to hear this. Very sad. I think this illness gets one so low you cannot care less about it . I feel for him he might not have got help or it maybe just time for him to go. Thought with those who will miss him. Everyone is worth something to someone .


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## Nayshiftin

https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/misc/contact sorry its not in profile but your account


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## Drummer

grovesy said:


> Some sugar free products can have a   laxative effects   when   eaten.   Many   having  small   print   on packaging the amounts.


Oh yes - the reports on Haribo Gummi Bears on one of the websites selling the sugar free ones - they are hysterically funny to those of my ilk. My husband came to find out why I was bursting out laughing every few seconds. 
Oh deary deary me.


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## Kreator

Well I've been a little quiet for a coupe of weeks, as I've just been doing my thing...

Minding calories, taking at least 10,000 steps a day (even with a stinking cold for a week!), being midful about what I've been eating and generally enjoying things!

Weight has stablised a little, I'm currently 60.6Kg, which isn't too shabby - I work some nights (not shifts) and find that I can lose 1 KG overnight, so having to balance that out a little to bump myself up again by Monday official weigh in day - seems though I'm probably losing water weight and I'm naturally bouncing back up as I gain that back, and beginning to trust my body and what it tells me - slowly does it...!

I'm pretty disciplined with food overall, and so far it's working well, I'm sure there will be bumps in the road, and I've already had 'bored moments' where I've ...nearly gone to the fridge, but went for a walk instead well away from the fridge, which helped!

Overall, I'm finding calorie watching perfect for me, but I'm also a little wary of rice - seems to send me into a spin for some reason - this is regardless of if it's wholegrain or otherwise - I'll stick to the caulliflower rice for the time being!

As usual for me these days, Fasting Blood Glucose levels remain steady at the 4 mark, so intend to keep that trend going, along with 10,000 steps (rain or shine) and calorie counting - seems to be working for me!

I'll update when I have more news - keep safe everyone!!


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## Deleted member 33972

Nayshiftin said:


> https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/misc/contact sorry its not in profile but your account


Hi what’s the link for?


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## Kreator

jeanettem1 said:


> Hi what’s the link for?


Hi,

I have no idea sorry, but hope you're doing well?!


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## Deleted member 33972

jeanettem1 said:


> Hi what’s the link for?





Kreator said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have no idea sorry, but hope you're doing well?!


Hi I went off plan a for 2 weeks. Some really horrible things but. 8m feeling better. Put 1.5 lbs back on but I’m back on track again. I’ve offended  nayshiftin and didn’t mean it. He’s sent me my link but don’t know what it means .


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## Deleted member 33972

Kreator said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have no idea sorry, but hope you're doing well?!


Are you doing well back on food? It says contact us with my name and email address


----------



## Deleted member 33972

Kreator said:


> Well I've been a little quiet for a coupe of weeks, as I've just been doing my thing...
> 
> Minding calories, taking at least 10,000 steps a day (even with a stinking cold for a week!), being midful about what I've been eating and generally enjoying things!
> 
> Weight has stablised a little, I'm currently 60.6Kg, which isn't too shabby - I work some nights (not shifts) and find that I can lose 1 KG overnight, so having to balance that out a little to bump myself up again by Monday official weigh in day - seems though I'm probably losing water weight and I'm naturally bouncing back up as I gain that back, and beginning to trust my body and what it tells me - slowly does it...!
> 
> I'm pretty disciplined with food overall, and so far it's working well, I'm sure there will be bumps in the road, and I've already had 'bored moments' where I've ...nearly gone to the fridge, but went for a walk instead well away from the fridge, which helped!
> 
> Overall, I'm finding calorie watching perfect for me, but I'm also a little wary of rice - seems to send me into a spin for some reason - this is regardless of if it's wholegrain or otherwise - I'll stick to the caulliflower rice for the time being!
> 
> As usual for me these days, Fasting Blood Glucose levels remain steady at the 4 mark, so intend to keep that trend going, along with 10,000 steps (rain or shine) and calorie counting - seems to be working for me!
> 
> I'll update when I have more news - keep safe everyone!!


Just seen this.


----------



## Deleted member 33972

Kreator said:


> Well I've been a little quiet for a coupe of weeks, as I've just been doing my thing...
> 
> Minding calories, taking at least 10,000 steps a day (even with a stinking cold for a week!), being midful about what I've been eating and generally enjoying things!
> 
> Weight has stablised a little, I'm currently 60.6Kg, which isn't too shabby - I work some nights (not shifts) and find that I can lose 1 KG overnight, so having to balance that out a little to bump myself up again by Monday official weigh in day - seems though I'm probably losing water weight and I'm naturally bouncing back up as I gain that back, and beginning to trust my body and what it tells me - slowly does it...!
> 
> I'm pretty disciplined with food overall, and so far it's working well, I'm sure there will be bumps in the road, and I've already had 'bored moments' where I've ...nearly gone to the fridge, but went for a walk instead well away from the fridge, which helped!
> 
> Overall, I'm finding calorie watching perfect for me, but I'm also a little wary of rice - seems to send me into a spin for some reason - this is regardless of if it's wholegrain or otherwise - I'll stick to the caulliflower rice for the time being!
> 
> As usual for me these days, Fasting Blood Glucose levels remain steady at the 4 mark, so intend to keep that trend going, along with 10,000 steps (rain or shine) and calorie counting - seems to be working for me!
> 
> I'll update when I have more news - keep safe everyone!!


4 is really low compared to mine. My binge put it up between 7-8 I’m not on medication. Are you? That cold is supposedly another really bad and very infectious virus that flooring everyone.


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## Kreator

jeanettem1 said:


> 4 is really low compared to mine. My binge put it up between 7-8 I’m not on medication. Are you? That cold is supposedly another really bad and very infectious virus that flooring everyone.


Nope, no meds since April - yep don't usually get colds, but this one was irritating!


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## Deleted member 33972

Kreator said:


> Nope, no meds since April - yep don't usually get colds, but this one was irritating!


They’re  dropping  like flies with it. Someone I know has been off work 3 weeks.


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## Nayshiftin

jeanettem1 said:


> Hi what’s the link for?


You asked how to rmove notifications but that’s a long time ago since you’ve only just noticed you probably removed your other comment to me too.


----------



## Deleted member 33972

Nayshiftin said:


> You asked how to rmove notifications but that’s a long time ago since you’ve only just noticed you probably removed your other comment to me too.


I don’t remember


----------



## Deleted member 33972

Nayshiftin said:


> https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/misc/contact sorry its not in profile but your account


Hi I had to go through posts to find you I don’t see you on much. I am so sorry for offending you and I had to think why I did it? There’s been a disagreement with someone forcing their opinion on me and I left the forums for  a while because of it. I think you got caught in the crossfire as I lost trust in people on here. It’s reared it’s ugly haed again with the person the other night and someone else got caught in it and they were actually supporting me.  I apologise  unreservedly to you and I don’t have any antagonism towards you. We’re all very sensitive  with weight  loss and diagnoses. I am so sorry and I hope you accept my apology. X


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## Nayshiftin

jeanettem1 said:


> Hi I had to go through posts to find you I don’t see you on much. I am so sorry for offending you and I had to think why I did it? There’s been a disagreement with someone forcing their opinion on me and I left the forums for  a while because of it. I think you got caught in the crossfire as I lost trust in people on here. It’s reared it’s ugly haed again with the person the other night and someone else got caught in it and they were actually supporting me.  I apologise  unreservedly to you and I don’t have any antagonism towards you. We’re all very sensitive  with weight  loss and diagnoses. I am so sorry and I hope you accept my apology. X


No need to apologise. As you rightly say we are all struggling and sensitive. To justify  I think sometimes in writing to be articulate enough to put ones point across is difficult. I would never wish anyone harm . I try but fail at times and I am sorry you have been hurt. Some people will be enthusiastic about their way being best . I think one moderator puts it we are all unique and each has to try and see what is best fir them . I hope you succeed and I hope we can be friends.


----------



## Deleted member 33972

Nayshiftin said:


> No need to apologise. As you rightly say we are all struggling and sensitive. To justify  I think sometimes in writing to be articulate enough to put ones point across is difficult. I would never wish anyone harm . I try but fail at times and I am sorry you have been hurt. Some people will be enthusiastic about their way being best . I think one moderator puts it we are all unique and each has to try and see what is best fir them . I hope you succeed and I hope we can be friends.


Thank you for graciously accepting my apology and I’m sure we will  be friends


----------



## Kreator

Hi All, been a while, but pleased to say I've been maintaining my weight loss and now stand at 60Kg give or take 100grams here & there!

My maintenance calories are around 1800 per day (this includes lot of coffee with milk!) sometimes I eat a little less, sometimes a little more depending if I need the energy or not - Still taking at least 10,000 steps per day (although it's more like 12-13,000 most days!) I find mixed nuts 20g (125 Cals) at a time is just the trick to perk me up if needed...or alternatively a biscuit at around 70 cals

Fasting Blood Sugars still around the 4 mark, although got to a giddy height this morning of 4.5! - I know why...I had a slice of cake a bit later in the evening the night before - was nice too!

A couple of months ago I didn't think I would be able to keep this up...I am and really enjoying my newfound lifestyle!

I'll update as it goes - hope everyone doing ok!


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## Nayshiftin

Kreator said:


> Hi All, been a while, but pleased to say I've been maintaining my weight loss and now stand at 60Kg give or take 100grams here & there!
> 
> My maintenance calories are around 1800 per day (this includes lot of coffee with milk!) sometimes I eat a little less, sometimes a little more depending if I need the energy or not - Still taking at least 10,000 steps per day (although it's more like 12-13,000 most days!) I find mixed nuts 20g (125 Cals) at a time is just the trick to perk me up if needed...or alternatively a biscuit at around 70 cals
> 
> Fasting Blood Sugars still around the 4 mark, although got to a giddy height this morning of 4.5! - I know why...I had a slice of cake a bit later in the evening the night before - was nice too!
> 
> A couple of months ago I didn't think I would be able to keep this up...I am and really enjoying my newfound lifestyle!
> 
> I'll update as it goes - hope everyone doing ok!


Well done you wow wish I could make my Bmmols go to 4 that is ace .


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## Ange8

Hi newbie here eventually plucked up the courage to write…. I am type 2 , overweight and my bloods sugars were high even on maximum metaforin they were 12-18. I started counter weight programme six weeks ago -800 cals a day made up of shakes and soups similar to the programme some of you talked about. 
I excercise 6 days a week usually about 50 minutes doing legs , bums and tums, or body pump and spin I have lost some weight 6kgs in total after being on the programme for 6 weeks my weight loss is slow some weeks it’s only a couple of pounds despite the big calorie deficit ( as I would usually eat at lease 2000calories per day) my bloods sugars are also remaining between 10-12 I thought I would have improved by now. My dietician suggested I didn’t excercise for 8 days to see if it made a difference - it didn’t my blood sugars remained at 12 and I didn’t loos any weight that week! 
anyone else had this problem ? Or any suggestions to what I am doing wrong ? Thank you


----------



## Nayshiftin

I am not on such a low diet but I reckon I do as much exercise. My blood sugars are not as high and not on meds so cannot compare . Except for nothing shifts my weight. What I did do was finger prick to see what changed me . If I do not drink it goes up more than if I drink . Not alcohol just coffee tea water. Carbs on their own are bad so like if I have say toast n butter that’s no good. If I put say peanut butter or cheese n apple it’s good. Again balance that pasta meal I used to have half plate now no more than size of my fist and not layered too high. Same with meat I’d not have hubby had I’d have sauce now I force a fist size of meat into me. I try to have three meals a day and not eat between meals and have protein each meal . An egg , yoghurt or lentils if I do not want meat . There is lots to have . I also don’t eat after 7 pm snd before 7 am so you get a twelve hour break between meals . It was hard to start with big grazing made sugar worse. One nurse said to me you have too much sugar in your blood and insulin is plenty too but it’s not working so it’s like we have many doors needing opened to key sugar through but each insulin key is not quite right so the doors stay shut not allowing the sugar to escape . So we need to give it time. Weight is one factor in measuring your fitness but getting fit lowering you HbA1c makes us feel better . So try snd focus on those and weigh once a month. It’s hard but you can and will get there.


----------



## Kreator

Ange8 said:


> Hi newbie here eventually plucked up the courage to write…. I am type 2 , overweight and my bloods sugars were high even on maximum metaforin they were 12-18. I started counter weight programme six weeks ago -800 cals a day made up of shakes and soups similar to the programme some of you talked about.
> I excercise 6 days a week usually about 50 minutes doing legs , bums and tums, or body pump and spin I have lost some weight 6kgs in total after being on the programme for 6 weeks my weight loss is slow some weeks it’s only a couple of pounds despite the big calorie deficit ( as I would usually eat at lease 2000calories per day) my bloods sugars are also remaining between 10-12 I thought I would have improved by now. My dietician suggested I didn’t excercise for 8 days to see if it made a difference - it didn’t my blood sugars remained at 12 and I didn’t loos any weight that week!
> anyone else had this problem ? Or any suggestions to what I am doing wrong ? Thank you


Hi, and welcome!

Congrats on 6Kg weight loss, that's a great start, keep going, and the rewards will come...

For me, while being on 800 Cals for 12 weeks, I was told NOT to exercise - I didn't, and some weeks I'd lose more than other weeks...it's just the way it goes - The most I lost in one week was 1.6kg's - the least 0.3Kg's - the important thing is to keep going - break it down into chunks - so at 6 weeks, think I can do 9, then once you're at 9, there's only 3 weeks left so may as well carry on and complete the 12 weeks...

The important thing is to take it week by week, each week no matter what the weigh-in, keep going...it's long term you're after, not a quick fix remember 

My blood sugar levels improved a lot after the first week, but everyone is different (Bear in mind though that this is Fasting Blood Sugar levels not 2 hours after a shake...) and some people will take longer to adjust, but it will improve so long as you stick with it (not everyone achieves Remission, but everyone sees a benefit one way or the other)

All I can say is, you're doing a great job so far, keep in there, and over time the rewards will come


----------



## Kreator

Ange8 said:


> my bloods sugars were high even on maximum metaforin they were 12-18


FYI - I was on full Metformin dose also for 3 years - If I'm honest, it didn't really make much of a difference for me throughout - I tried to find out how much it is likely to reduce Blood Sugar Levels, and I've only seen one dietitian mention 1% reduction, so I'm not surprised - But...Metformin halts excess Blood Sugar Production by the Liver so must have some impact - Also, for this NHS Pilot, I has to stop ALL Metformin - it was a condition of the Pilot...

...Still no Metformin now, and no Statins either...

...But...I do now eat well, and do at least 10,000 steps a day - which is sooo much better than taking tablets (or remember to!) each morning and evening...


----------



## Kreator

Been a while, but there hasn't really been much to say...

...I've just been doing what I've been doing, and it's still working!

Latest HbA1c is 35 - as of 15th December - Previous was 37 in September, so I must be doing something right!

My weight has stablised between 59Kg - 60Kg, and I feel more and more healthy with each day that passes

Even with the how cold it is at the moment, if I don't look like I'll reach my 10,000 step goal, I'll go for a walk - and lately, I've started to jog while I'm out (a little!) - one step at a time!

Fasting Blood Sugar levels remain around 4 - mostly 3.8, 3.9 etc, so I'm really pleased with that also

Xmas coming up, so plan to relax a little and enjoy the time I have away from work - still plan on being slightly mindful around food over the next few days, but plan on enjoying it too! - it is xmas after all!!

Hope everyone is ok, and hope you all enjoy your holidays


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## Nayshiftin

Welll done


----------



## travellor

Kreator said:


> Been a while, but there hasn't really been much to say...
> 
> ...I've just been doing what I've been doing, and it's still working!
> 
> Latest HbA1c is 35 - as of 15th December - Previous was 37 in September, so I must be doing something right!
> 
> My weight has stablised between 59Kg - 60Kg, and I feel more and more healthy with each day that passes
> 
> Even with the how cold it is at the moment, if I don't look like I'll reach my 10,000 step goal, I'll go for a walk - and lately, I've started to jog while I'm out (a little!) - one step at a time!
> 
> Fasting Blood Sugar levels remain around 4 - mostly 3.8, 3.9 etc, so I'm really pleased with that also
> 
> Xmas coming up, so plan to relax a little and enjoy the time I have away from work - still plan on being slightly mindful around food over the next few days, but plan on enjoying it too! - it is xmas after all!!
> 
> Hope everyone is ok, and hope you all enjoy your holidays


A brilliant result.
Have a great christmas.


----------



## Weekender

Ange8 said:


> Hi newbie here eventually plucked up the courage to write…. I am type 2 , overweight and my bloods sugars were high even on maximum metaforin they were 12-18. I started counter weight programme six weeks ago -800 cals a day made up of shakes and soups similar to the programme some of you talked about.
> I excercise 6 days a week usually about 50 minutes doing legs , bums and tums, or body pump and spin I have lost some weight 6kgs in total after being on the programme for 6 weeks my weight loss is slow some weeks it’s only a couple of pounds despite the big calorie deficit ( as I would usually eat at lease 2000calories per day) my bloods sugars are also remaining between 10-12 I thought I would have improved by now. My dietician suggested I didn’t excercise for 8 days to see if it made a difference - it didn’t my blood sugars remained at 12 and I didn’t loos any weight that week!
> anyone else had this problem ? Or any suggestions to what I am doing wrong ? Thank you


Hi Ange8 - sorry for the late contribution. Well done for joining the forum and losing 6kg. You are on the right path  

One of the most important things I learned during my journey from T2 diabetes to remission is that exercise is very unlikely to result in weight loss over time. You can about read about Herman Pontzer's research in this article   Article Link

_“Our metabolic engines were not crafted by millions of years of evolution to guarantee a beach-ready bikini body, but rather, our metabolism has been primed “to pack on more fat than any other ape.” What’s more, our metabolism responds to changes in exercise and diet in ways that thwart our efforts to shed pounds. . . . If we want to lose weight, we must eat fewer calories than we burn. It really comes down to that._

Like @Kreator, I  did the Newcastle 800 calorie shakes based diet, and lost 22kg (101 to 79kg) back in May / June this and this fixed my blood sugars.
Since then I've dramatically cut down on beer, avoid bread and other carbs
I'm doing a lot more exercise  - 3 x 5k runs and 2 x weights in the gym every week. 

However in the last 4 weeks my weight has crept up to 81.5kg, and this all down to snacking in the evening (Nuts, cheese and crackers etc) and this is because I have been giving myself a 'pass' because I've been to the gym or gone for a run.  

Even thought I have read the research and Herman Pontzer's book, the idea that I can eat more because I've exercised is a hard one to shift. After xmas, I will need to reassert some control. Exercise has loads of benefits but:
_*If we want to lose weight, we must eat fewer calories than we burn. It really comes down to that.*_

The good news is my blood sugars are still fine, it's just my belly is growing :-(


----------



## Weekender

Kreator said:


> Been a while, but there hasn't really been much to say...
> 
> ...I've just been doing what I've been doing, and it's still working!
> 
> Latest HbA1c is 35 - as of 15th December - Previous was 37 in September, so I must be doing something right!
> 
> My weight has stablised between 59Kg - 60Kg, and I feel more and more healthy with each day that passes
> 
> Even with the how cold it is at the moment, if I don't look like I'll reach my 10,000 step goal, I'll go for a walk - and lately, I've started to jog while I'm out (a little!) - one step at a time!
> 
> Fasting Blood Sugar levels remain around 4 - mostly 3.8, 3.9 etc, so I'm really pleased with that also
> 
> Xmas coming up, so plan to relax a little and enjoy the time I have away from work - still plan on being slightly mindful around food over the next few days, but plan on enjoying it too! - it is xmas after all!!
> 
> Hope everyone is ok, and hope you all enjoy your holidays


Really impressive @Kreator well done. I find it really helpful to read about how well you are doing. It encourages me to get more of a grip. 
I hope you have a great Xmas - keep up the great work


----------



## travellor

Weekender said:


> Hi Ange8 - sorry for the late contribution. Well done for joining the forum and losing 6kg. You are on the right path
> 
> One of the most important things I learned during my journey from T2 diabetes to remission is that exercise is very unlikely to result in weight loss over time. You can about read about Herman Pontzer's research in this article   Article Link
> 
> _“Our metabolic engines were not crafted by millions of years of evolution to guarantee a beach-ready bikini body, but rather, our metabolism has been primed “to pack on more fat than any other ape.” What’s more, our metabolism responds to changes in exercise and diet in ways that thwart our efforts to shed pounds. . . . If we want to lose weight, we must eat fewer calories than we burn. It really comes down to that._
> 
> Like @Kreator, I  did the Newcastle 800 calorie shakes based diet, and lost 22kg (101 to 79kg) back in May / June this and this fixed my blood sugars.
> Since then I've dramatically cut down on beer, avoid bread and other carbs
> I'm doing a lot more exercise  - 3 x 5k runs and 2 x weights in the gym every week.
> 
> However in the last 4 weeks my weight has crept up to 81.5kg, and this all down to snacking in the evening (Nuts, cheese and crackers etc) and this is because I have been giving myself a 'pass' because I've been to the gym or gone for a run.
> 
> Even thought I have read the research and Herman Pontzer's book, the idea that I can eat more because I've exercised is a hard one to shift. After xmas, I will need to reassert some control. Exercise has loads of benefits but:
> _*If we want to lose weight, we must eat fewer calories than we burn. It really comes down to that.*_
> 
> The good news is my blood sugars are still fine, it's just my belly is growing :-(



You are right on the benefits of exercise.
lncreasing muscle mass, so there is less fat, more muscle. And it also helps with insulin resistance, as the muscles become more able to use the glucose in your body more easily.
I hope lockdown doesn't mess it up in the New Year.


----------



## Weekender

travellor said:


> You are right on the benefits of exercise.
> lncreasing muscle mass, so there is less fat, more muscle. And it also helps with insulin resistance, as the muscles become more able to use the glucose in your body more easily.
> I hope lockdown doesn't mess it up in the New Year.


Thanks @travellor , I should have pointed out that my blood sugars are probably improving _because_ of the resistance weight training. My blood sugars were deteriorating several weeks after I lost 22kg (a proportion of which was muscle) which is what prompted me to go to the gym. Now, even though I'm gaining weight (some of which might be muscle) my blood sugars are improving / stable


----------



## Eddy Edson

travellor said:


> You are right on the benefits of exercise.
> lncreasing muscle mass, so there is less fat, more muscle. And it also helps with insulin resistance, as the muscles become more able to use the glucose in your body more easily.
> I hope lockdown doesn't mess it up in the New Year.


A really interesting area of research, arising partly from Pontzer's work, is looking at exactly why a fairly large amount of regular exercise can be crucial for maintaining weight loss (not so much for losing it in the first place).  

Fascinating thread from the great Kevin Hall:  



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1463548802103590914
With weight loss, appetite generally increases, as yr bod tries to get the weight back.  Added to that, with weight loss, basal energy expenditure reduces. So weight loss => increased appetite + reduced energy expenditure => no surprise that sustaining weight loss can be really dififcult.

Regular exercise => even more reduced basal energy expenditure, beyond what would be expected from any weight loss (Pontzer's work). So at first sight, it doesn't look like exercise is going to be the answer to sustaining weight loss: you increase the amount of energy expended from exercise, but that gets balanced by the reduction in basal expenditure, as your bod tries to preserve the status quo. 

But what seems to happen is this non-intuitive effect: regular exercise => reduced appetite (Hall's work). In other words, the reason why regular exercise is crucial for weight loss maintenance is not so much because it increases total expenditure, but because it acts on the feedback system to reduce energy intake.

Just speculation from Hall at the moment, focus for new experiments.


----------



## travellor

Eddy Edson said:


> A really interesting area of research, arising partly from Pontzer's work, is looking at exactly why a fairly large amount of regular exercise can be crucial for maintaining weight loss (not so much for losing it in the first place).
> 
> Fascinating thread from the great Kevin Hall:
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1463548802103590914
> With weight loss, appetite generally increases, as yr bod tries to get the weight back.  Added to that, with weight loss, basal energy expenditure reduces. So weight loss => increased appetite + reduced energy expenditure => no surprise that sustaining weight loss can be really dififcult.
> 
> Regular exercise => even more reduced basal energy expenditure, beyond what would be expected from any weight loss (Pontzer's work). So at first sight, it doesn't look like exercise is going to be the answer to sustaining weight loss: you increase the amount of energy expended from exercise, but that gets balanced by the reduction in basal expenditure, as your bod tries to preserve the status quo.
> 
> But what seems to happen is this non-intuitive effect: regular exercise => reduced appetite (Hall's work). In other words, the reason why regular exercise is crucial for weight loss maintenance is not so much because it increases total expenditure, but because it acts on the feedback system to reduce energy intake.
> 
> Just speculation from Hall at the moment, focus for new experiments.



It's interesting, I find the same.
I thought it was the "boredom" effect for me, if I go to the gym, I get away from the fridge, so can't be tempted to to nibble!


----------



## Kreator

Eddy Edson said:


> But what seems to happen is this non-intuitive effect: regular exercise => reduced appetite (Hall's work). In other words, the reason why regular exercise is crucial for weight loss maintenance is not so much because it increases total expenditure, but because it acts on the feedback system to reduce energy intake.


I'd concur with this - I don't feel 'hungry' between meals - I was wondering why I don't feel the need to 'snack' possibly this is why...

Only time will tellI suppose!


travellor said:


> It's interesting, I find the same.
> I thought it was the "boredom" effect for me, if I go to the gym, I get away from the fridge, so can't be tempted to to nibble!


Yep this also - instead of running to the fridge, run out the door for a walk!


----------



## Kreator

Hi All,

Hope everyone had a great break!

So, for me - yep I put a little weight on during the festive period, but found myself not wanting to really stuff myself silly, so instead ate mindfully but without restriction and really enjoyed myself!

I put on just over 1Kg in weight so up to 61Kg, and spent the last couple of weeks settling back into the 'new normal' with a slight twist - I'm no longer counting calories like I was - I'm beginning to know roughly how many calories are in a certain meal without really counting each calorie - which to be honest is where I need to be to be able to get on with life and not be so concerned about what I eat!

To get the weight back down, all I did was cut back a little a lunchtime - and generally still no snacking! - I'm also jogging more with my walks now - I'm kind of doing the 'Coach to 5k' without the App - I'm doing this in my own time...

Fasting Blood sugar's still remain stable at around 4.0 - I wonder as well if this is partly down to my own sub-conconcious choice not to eat after 7pm - this isn't a hard rule, more of a general one - if it's 7.15 it's not going to matter, but 9.15 is a no food zone lol!

I guess to sum up, I eat around 2000 Calories a day - and vary each day with what that is - apart from Breakfast - Whole Rolled Oats with different choices of fruit etc...

And as I'm now in Remission, I even had a Banana after lunch last week, and I can confirm, it didn't have any effect other than satisfy my hunger!

I still have much more to learn I'm sure, but I feel like I've now broken the chain and have my rhythm with it all - including the 10,000 steps a day

I'll update again soon!


----------



## travellor

Congratulations.
Excellent news.


----------



## Weekender

Kreator said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Hope everyone had a great break!
> 
> So, for me - yep I put a little weight on during the festive period, but found myself not wanting to really stuff myself silly, so instead ate mindfully but without restriction and really enjoyed myself!
> 
> I put on just over 1Kg in weight so up to 61Kg, and spent the last couple of weeks settling back into the 'new normal' with a slight twist - I'm no longer counting calories like I was - I'm beginning to know roughly how many calories are in a certain meal without really counting each calorie - which to be honest is where I need to be to be able to get on with life and not be so concerned about what I eat!
> 
> To get the weight back down, all I did was cut back a little a lunchtime - and generally still no snacking! - I'm also jogging more with my walks now - I'm kind of doing the 'Coach to 5k' without the App - I'm doing this in my own time...
> 
> Fasting Blood sugar's still remain stable at around 4.0 - I wonder as well if this is partly down to my own sub-conconcious choice not to eat after 7pm - this isn't a hard rule, more of a general one - if it's 7.15 it's not going to matter, but 9.15 is a no food zone lol!
> 
> I guess to sum up, I eat around 2000 Calories a day - and vary each day with what that is - apart from Breakfast - Whole Rolled Oats with different choices of fruit etc...
> 
> And as I'm now in Remission, I even had a Banana after lunch last week, and I can confirm, it didn't have any effect other than satisfy my hunger!
> 
> I still have much more to learn I'm sure, but I feel like I've now broken the chain and have my rhythm with it all - including the 10,000 steps a day
> 
> I'll update again soon!


Sounds great. I admire your 'no snacks after 7pm' I am not on top of my evening TV snacking at all


----------



## Kreator

I thought I'd share this link;





__





						NHS England » NHS soups and shakes diet helps thousands shed the pounds
					






					www.england.nhs.uk
				




Believe it's being expanded to additional areas if anyone is interested?


----------



## Weekender

Kreator said:


> I thought I'd share this link;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NHS England » NHS soups and shakes diet helps thousands shed the pounds
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.england.nhs.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Believe it's being expanded to additional areas if anyone is interested?


Great news


----------



## Micky Mannis

Kreator said:


> Hi All,
> 
> 25/08/2021 - Link: https://www.england.nhs.uk/diabetes/treatment-care/low-calorie-diets/ - Includes links at the bottom to DiRECT Year 1, DiRECT Year 2 & DROPLET Trials
> 
> 25/08/2021 - Link: https://oviva.com/uk/en/programme/diabetes-remission/#join - This explains the programme specific to Oviva
> 
> Hope everyone is safe & well!
> 
> Copied from my post from the newbie section, and thought it would be better to re-post into the weight loss section...
> 
> Just joined the forum after being diagnosed with type 2 in 2018...found this forum and have been hooked ever since! - some really interesting views and advise, and great to read so many people's positive comments...
> 
> This disease is so complicated! - The last 3 years have been a rollercoaster, and I'm sure there's more to come...
> 
> Initial Type 2 Diagnosis HbA1c 88 in 2018, immediately bought a blood glucose monitor to see what foods would set me off, 3 months later 52, then hovering between 45 (once) to 47-48 every blood test...Metformin max dose all the way through - 2000mg
> 
> So finally took the plunge further to get onto the NHS Low Calorie Diet Diabetes Remission Programme provided by Oviva...which I pushed my DN for...
> 
> First HbA1c since being on the shakes - 42 without Metformin...Fasting Blood Glucose mainly around 4.2 daily - some slighlty slower, some slightly higher, but good all round...
> 
> Initial start weight 77.5Kg - 5ft 4" - The NHS program is provided by Oviva - I was told target weight was 62.5Kg - what?!! - there'll be nothing left of me I said! - In hindsight - there's still plenty of me left...!
> 
> 10 weeks in and managed to lose 11Kg (Weight now at 66.5Kg), 2 weeks to go on full TDR, and feeling ok about things generally - It's not easy though...!
> 
> Bought Roy Taylor's book 'Life Without Diabetes' - such an interesting read
> 
> Hardest part to come I think - food re-introduction and food maintenance...lets see...
> 
> One thing for sure though, this forum has helped me immensely, thank you!


I cheated for years i was away up at 21 stone and hated it my GP put me forward for a trial involving a drug called Ozempic after which the weight came off 2 or 3 pounds a week until i got to around 17 and a half stone yhen it levelled off but after a bad time of getting my blood sugars under controlled my GP doubled the dose and ive 2 stone off in eight weeks and its flying off every week 3 or 4 pounds a week it such a relief


----------



## Kreator

Hi All,

Well...what a few months it's been!

Weight as of this morning...59.8Kg - and it's been between 59.5 - 60.5 every week for the last few months

Fasting Gloucose levels remain stable at around 4.2, 4.3 no matter what I've eaten the night before

My main takes from this whole journey is;

Lose at least 15Kg (I lost aound 20Kg) in 3 months using shakes

start to explore food again for the next 3 months being mindful around calorie intake and what each food group is and what it's uses are - also start to increase steps / exercise

Get used to new habits and new way of thinking around food for 3 months as well as keep up the steps / exercise

Start to enjoy your new way of eating habits as they become normal as well as enjoying the much increased active lifestyle! - Forever!

The last few months have been full of Birthday's, special occasions, stress at times, but I seem to have found a normal way of eating, which is 3 meals a day and no snacking - these are my 'normal' days. On the special occasions, yep, I do indulge, including beer & cake, but don't over-do it - once the party is over so to speak, it's back to normal...

If I'm stressed, I'll go for a walk/Jog or ride my bike - this clears my head and keeps my exercise up, so I'm killing 2 birds...

All sounds easy, but to get there it's been a massive jouney and some deep thinking and reflection as well as observation, none of this has been easy, and requires a lot of effort and some deep thinking, but becomes easier the more you keep your new habits which need to be enojoyable - this is key...

Next HbA1C check is due at the beginning of May, so I'll post once results are available...


----------



## Nayshiftin

Kreator said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Well...what a few months it's been!
> 
> Weight as of this morning...59.8Kg - and it's been between 59.5 - 60.5 every week for the last few months
> 
> Fasting Gloucose levels remain stable at around 4.2, 4.3 no matter what I've eaten the night before
> 
> My main takes from this whole journey is;
> 
> Lose at least 15Kg (I lost aound 20Kg) in 3 months using shakes
> 
> start to explore food again for the next 3 months being mindful around calorie intake and what each food group is and what it's uses are - also start to increase steps / exercise
> 
> Get used to new habits and new way of thinking around food for 3 months as well as keep up the steps / exercise
> 
> Start to enjoy your new way of eating habits as they become normal as well as enjoying the much increased active lifestyle! - Forever!
> 
> The last few months have been full of Birthday's, special occasions, stress at times, but I seem to have found a normal way of eating, which is 3 meals a day and no snacking - these are my 'normal' days. On the special occasions, yep, I do indulge, including beer & cake, but don't over-do it - once the party is over so to speak, it's back to normal...
> 
> If I'm stressed, I'll go for a walk/Jog or ride my bike - this clears my head and keeps my exercise up, so I'm killing 2 birds...
> 
> All sounds easy, but to get there it's been a massive jouney and some deep thinking and reflection as well as observation, none of this has been easy, and requires a lot of effort and some deep thinking, but becomes easier the more you keep your new habits which need to be enojoyable - this is key...
> 
> Next HbA1C check is due at the beginning of May, so I'll post once results are available...


Well done . I wish o could do this . Not doing it I my area. I know I’m fat and telling me that makes no difference. Well done you .


----------



## Windy

Nayshiftin said:


> Well done . I wish o could do this . Not doing it I my area. I know I’m fat and telling me that makes no difference. Well done you .


It wasn't offered in my area either (but excitingly, it is now, according to the NHS England press release), so I made up my own 800-830 calorie a day diet and followed that instead. There's one offered by Dr Mike Lean (who was one of the scientists behind the low calorie diet trial) that does a free diet plan you can do yourself if you're interested in trying it. Lots of lentil soup etc, looks ok to me. 
My made up diet comprised omelettes for breakfast, soup for lunch and a small portion of a normal meal for dinner. I can't say it was easy to follow, but I managed it. I'm also fat (clinically obese), but something snapped in my brain when I was diagnosed with the D, and I went for it. I know it's not easy, but why don't you try it for a fortnight and see if you can do it @Nayshiftin ? Or swap out breakfast for a 250 calorie breakfast instead? or soup of lunch or whatever works for you.
Best wishes, Sarah


----------



## Kreator

Kreator said:


> Next HbA1C check is due at the beginning of May, so I'll post once results are available...


Hmm, Latest HbA1C is 39....

Wasn't sure what to think to this initially, but on reflection, I think it's a good number...

It means I'm still 'Non Diabetic' but high enough to give me a warning shot not to get complacent, so am I happy - no I'd love it to be lower, but I'm realistic enough to know that it will keep me on my toes a little, and also to celebrate that I'm fully 'In Remission'

My weight and Fasting Blood sugar levels have again remained totally stable throughout, as has my waist circumference, so hey ho I guess!

To be fair, I've had 3 family Birthdays the last couple of months which has kept me fed with home baked cakes etc. (Mindful of course!) so maybe this has contribted to the slightly upwards HbA1C trend - who knows, but it's not weight gain for sure, so will see what happens over the next few months...

 Next HbA1C check is 6 months away, so I'll reflect back on my eating habits and try to adjust slightly if needed...

What a year it's been though!

I hope my thread along with other similar threads prove to be useful to people in the future, this forum has been an immense help to me the last year, and I'll continue to watch and post when I can...

Thank You!


----------



## BeeBusy

Thank you for sharing! I was under the impression the only way to remission was a ketogenic diet, but your diet is Mediterranean. So good to know!

Congratulations on all you've achieved! This was a lot of work and willpower! Fantastic results and super inspirational!

Could you please share what you eat on a typical day? I'm not in the UK and I'm not diabetic, but the trend of my blood sugar is bad and if I don't do something, I'll become T2 diabetic.

I'm 5ft4 and weight is 63 kg (BMI 23.4). I'm a woman, 53 years old. How do you calculate the weight you need to achieve?

I'm afraid to eat things like lentils (carbs), because they rise my blood sugar above 140 mg/dL. Do you measure your blood sugar 1h after meals?

I'm trying to find out if it is ok to go on a diet that gets my blood sugar above 140 mg/dL after meals. At the moment, I'm afraid of it. But I need to find an alternative to the ketogenic diet, because the keto diet has increased my morning blood sugar and cholesterol.

My latest A1c was my highest ever. It is in the green zone, but trending up. In spite of a low carb diet.

Thank you for reading and helping so much with sharing your story!


----------



## Eddy Edson

BeeBusy said:


> Thank you for sharing! I was under the impression the only way to remission was a ketogenic diet, but your diet is Mediterranean. So good to know!
> 
> Congratulations on all you've achieved! This was a lot of work and willpower! Fantastic results and super inspirational!
> 
> Could you please share what you eat on a typical day? I'm not in the UK and I'm not diabetic, but the trend of my blood sugar is bad and if I don't do something, I'll become T2 diabetic.
> 
> I'm 5ft4 and weight is 63 kg (BMI 23.4). I'm a woman, 53 years old. How do you calculate the weight you need to achieve?
> 
> I'm afraid to eat things like lentils (carbs), because they rise my blood sugar above 140 mg/dL. Do you measure your blood sugar 1h after meals?
> 
> I'm trying to find out if it is ok to go on a diet that gets my blood sugar above 140 mg/dL after meals. At the moment, I'm afraid of it. But I need to find an alternative to the ketogenic diet, because the keto diet has increased my morning blood sugar and cholesterol.
> 
> My latest A1c was my highest ever. It is in the green zone, but trending up. In spite of a low carb diet.
> 
> Thank you for reading and helping so much with sharing your story!


Can I just hop in to this discussion to say that there is absolutely nothing wrong with going above 140 mg/dl (7.8 mmol/l) from time to time - non-diabetics do so routinely.

To the extent that this level us any kjnd of an issue, it is only in the context of 2 hours after eating, not some brief spike on a shorter time frame. But it is hardly an issue even then, if yr HbA1c is "normal".

If you're getting contrary advice somewhere - eg that 140 mg/dl is a bad level even if it's just briefly, a few minutes after eating - just ignore it. The person is either a charlatan or clueless.


----------



## Kreator

BeeBusy said:


> Could you please share what you eat on a typical day? I'm not in the UK and I'm not diabetic, but the trend of my blood sugar is bad and if I don't do something, I'll become T2 diabetic.


I'm afraid it doesn't really work like that - everyone is different, but you have to find your own balance - it can take a while, but once you get there you'll know what suits you and what doesn't - sounds like an odd concept, but what I eat now isn't a 'diet' it's a lifestyle choice - I can choose to eat takeaway if I want but just not every day...

It's been important to me throughout not to 'rule' any foods out, as I can't go through life denying myself certain foods here & there, for me it's all about balance (Mainly heathly choices though!) with the odd twist to keep everything from being militant, as that would never last...


----------



## BeeBusy

Kreator said:


> I'm afraid it doesn't really work like that - everyone is different, but you have to find your own balance - it can take a while, but once you get there you'll know what suits you and what doesn't - sounds like an odd concept, but what I eat now isn't a 'diet' it's a lifestyle choice - I can choose to eat takeaway if I want but just not every day...
> 
> It's been important to me throughout not to 'rule' any foods out, as I can't go through life denying myself certain foods here & there, for me it's all about balance (Mainly heathly choices though!) with the odd twist to keep everything from being militant, as that would never last...


Thank you for your reply.

So, you eat everything, just in smaller portions? Counting to a certain number of calories per day, or week? And trying to eat most days healthy foods? 

When you eat high carb foods, your postprandial blood glucose stays below 140, or does it go above? 140 mg/dL = 7.8 in UK units

Healthy foods as in vegetables? Or meat? Or both? 

Thank you for your help!


----------



## travellor

BeeBusy said:


> Thank you for your reply.
> 
> So, you eat everything, just in smaller portions? Counting to a certain number of calories per day, or week? And trying to eat most days healthy foods?
> 
> When you eat high carb foods, your postprandial blood glucose stays below 140, or does it go above? 140 mg/dL = 7.8 in UK units
> 
> Healthy foods as in vegetables? Or meat? Or both?
> 
> Thank you for your help!



Who on earth convinced you 140 at one hour is the holy grail?
Have you tested non diabetic relatives?
Personally, I count nothing, I just use the scales and a mirror.
They tell me enough about food, and gym time.
(In the past, I only tested at 1 hour if I was actively chasing highs, 2 hours is the correct time to test)


----------



## BeeBusy

travellor said:


> Who on earth convinced you 140 at one hour is the holy grail?
> Have you tested non diabetic relatives?
> Personally, I count nothing, I just use the scales and a mirror.
> They tell me enough about food, and gym time.
> (In the past, I only tested at 1 hour if I was actively chasing highs, 2 hours is the correct time to test)


I see. Unfortunately, if I'd trust the mirror, I wouldn't diet at all. I've never been overweight, nor obese. I want to get rid of invisible visceral fat that I'm assuming I must have, based on Dr Taylor's book.

As for the 140, that comes from reading books like blood sugar 101 and papers such as this:









						Postprandial glycemic response in a non-diabetic adult population: the effect of nutrients is different between men and women - Nutrition & Metabolism
					

Background There is a growing interest in the pathopysiological consequences of postprandial hyperglycemia. It is well known that in diabetic patients 2 h plasma glucose is a better risk predictor for coronary heart disease than fasting plasma glucose. Data on the glycemic response in healthy...




					nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com
				




See fig 2. Normal people aren't always below 140, but judging by the results of this paper and others like this, blood sugar above is more of an exception than a rule, it seems. So, if I try to keep it under 140 at all times, the few times I'll elope won't be a disaster, since most times I'm "good".

It seems that blood sugar above 140 can already cause damage (see references in the blood sugar 101 book).

I'm not claiming other people should do the same. I'm just saying what I try to do.

I was curious to know if after following the Newcastle diet you could eat foods like lentils, beans and chickpeas and still keep your postprandial below 140.


----------



## BeeBusy

Eddy Edson said:


> Can I just hop in to this discussion to say that there is absolutely nothing wrong with going above 140 mg/dl (7.8 mmol/l) from time to time - non-diabetics do so routinely.
> 
> To the extent that this level us any kjnd of an issue, it is only in the context of 2 hours after eating, not some brief spike on a shorter time frame. But it is hardly an issue even then, if yr HbA1c is "normal".
> 
> If you're getting contrary advice somewhere - eg that 140 mg/dl is a bad level even if it's just briefly, a few minutes after eating - just ignore it. The person is either a charlatan or clueless.


I agree with you.

Aiming for 140, the times I go above are exceptions. I just won't make a rule of going above. If I eat something that makes my blood sugar go above, then I'll avoid that food, because I don't want it to be my rule. I'll still have it sometimes. For instance, I do eat cake at parties, but only at parties, since they don't happen every week.

Yes, there are lots of charlatans and fearmongering. It's distasteful! As if we needed exaggeration to make as feel bad!


----------



## travellor

BeeBusy said:


> I see. Unfortunately, if I'd trust the mirror, I wouldn't diet at all. I've never been overweight, nor obese. I want to get rid of invisible visceral fat that I'm assuming I must have, based on Dr Taylor's book.
> 
> As for the 140, that comes from reading books like blood sugar 101 and papers such as this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Postprandial glycemic response in a non-diabetic adult population: the effect of nutrients is different between men and women - Nutrition & Metabolism
> 
> 
> Background There is a growing interest in the pathopysiological consequences of postprandial hyperglycemia. It is well known that in diabetic patients 2 h plasma glucose is a better risk predictor for coronary heart disease than fasting plasma glucose. Data on the glycemic response in healthy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See fig 2. Normal people aren't always below 140, but judging by the results of this paper and others like this, blood sugar above is more of an exception than a rule, it seems. So, if I try to keep it under 140 at all times, the few times I'll elope won't be a disaster, since most times I'm "good".
> 
> It seems that blood sugar above 140 can already cause damage (see references in the blood sugar 101 book).
> 
> I'm not claiming other people should do the same. I'm just saying what I try to do.
> 
> I was curious to know if after following the Newcastle diet you could eat foods like lentils, beans and chickpeas and still keep your postprandial below 140.



Second line in your paper.

"It is well known that in diabetic patients 2 h plasma glucose is a better risk predictor"


----------



## BeeBusy

travellor said:


> Second line in your paper.
> 
> "It is well known that in diabetic patients 2 h plasma glucose is a better risk predictor"


Yes, for coronary disease. The complete phrase is "It is well known that in diabetic patients 2 h plasma glucose is a better risk predictor for coronary heart disease than fasting plasma glucose." 

Later in the same paper, it is written: "The percentage of values over the range of normal glycemia (> 140 mg/dL) in the postprandial period analyzed (6 h) was 9.7% in women and 7.1% in men."

So, normal postprandial glycemia for the first 6h after a meal is inferior or equal to 140 mg/dL following this paper. Normal people go above that but in the sample studied, only 9.7% of the time for women.

I want to keep my glycemia as close to normal as possible. I aim low, knowing accidents may happen.

Again, that's what I aim for. I'm not saying other people should do the same. Every person has to decide for him-herself.

I was just asking if after the Newcastle diet blood sugar behaved as for normal people. It was just a question.


----------



## travellor

BeeBusy said:


> Yes, for coronary disease. The complete phrase is "It is well known that in diabetic patients 2 h plasma glucose is a better risk predictor for coronary heart disease than fasting plasma glucose."
> 
> Later in the same paper, it is written: "The percentage of values over the range of normal glycemia (> 140 mg/dL) in the postprandial period analyzed (6 h) was 9.7% in women and 7.1% in men."
> 
> So, normal postprandial glycemia for the first 6h after a meal is inferior or equal to 140 mg/dL following this paper. Normal people go above that but in the sample studied, only 9.7% of the time for women.
> 
> I want to keep my glycemia as close to normal as possible. I aim low, knowing accidents may happen.
> 
> Again, that's what I aim for. I'm not saying other people should do the same. Every person has to decide for him-herself.
> 
> I was just asking if after the Newcastle diet blood sugar behaved as for normal people. It was just a question.


My point exactly.
Ten percent over 140 at 2 hours is normal.
Nailing it down to 0 percent at 1 hour is worrying to me.
So, I guess or depends on what "normal" is to the individual, to answer your question.


----------



## Kreator

BeeBusy said:


> Yes, for coronary disease. The complete phrase is "It is well known that in diabetic patients 2 h plasma glucose is a better risk predictor for coronary heart disease than fasting plasma glucose."
> 
> Later in the same paper, it is written: "The percentage of values over the range of normal glycemia (> 140 mg/dL) in the postprandial period analyzed (6 h) was 9.7% in women and 7.1% in men."
> 
> So, normal postprandial glycemia for the first 6h after a meal is inferior or equal to 140 mg/dL following this paper. Normal people go above that but in the sample studied, only 9.7% of the time for women.
> 
> I want to keep my glycemia as close to normal as possible. I aim low, knowing accidents may happen.
> 
> Again, that's what I aim for. I'm not saying other people should do the same. Every person has to decide for him-herself.
> 
> I was just asking if after the Newcastle diet blood sugar behaved as for normal people. It was just a question.


Hi,

It may be helpful if you came from this at a slightly different angle

This is very simplistic and in no way scientific!;

Non Diabetic = your body reglates Blood Glucose and sorts itself out like a thermostat

Too Hot and Insulin kicks in to cool your Blood Glocose down

Too Cold and the Liver kicks in and produces Glucose to heat it up

At Risk Of Diabetes Type 2

The same happens but this time Insulin is having less of an effect but still manages to cool you down at an increasingly slower rate the more Insulin Resistant you become

Diabetes Type 2

The same happens but this time no matter how much insulin is produced it has a lesser and lesser effect as time goes on

Blood Glucose levels are affected in many ways, stress, exercise, what you've eaten or drunk, which makes it impossible to have a perfect score every time...

I certainly don't and never have 'Aimed' for a certain level - it is what it is - the main thing is 'Trends over Time' rather than an individual reading - Readings anyway can be 'off' sometimes too...

I'd advise to use it as a tool to learn what food sets you 'high' rather than chasing a certain level everytime...

I actually found it enjoyable finding a 'high' as it meant ...Ah, lets not choose that for a while or have a smaller portion...(If you're Diabetic that is)...

The Newcastle Diet in terms of T2D itself is intended as a weight loss tool initially which is intended to remove Visceral Fat (Around the Liver & Pancreas) so that both can effectively start working again...once everything is working again, generally you can tolerate Carbs again as your body deals with it - the difference for most of us is that we have found different / healthier ways of eating as what we were eating before led us to T2D in the first place....


----------



## BeeBusy

travellor said:


> My point exactly.
> Ten percent over 140 at 2 hours is normal.
> Nailing it down to 0 percent at 1 hour is worrying to me.
> So, I guess or depends on what "normal" is to the individual, to answer your question.


I agree. We're free to set our own goals based on what we think we can realistically do.

At the moment, what I call normal for myself is:
1) fasting blood glucose below 100 mg/dL;
2) postprandial blood sugar *peak* <= 140 mg/dL at least 90% of my meals;
3) HbA1c <= 5.6%  (I think it's 37.7 mmol/mol).

I'm hoping getting rid of visceral fat will help with that.

If I can't reach this, I'll adapt my goals. If I can consistently get 1 and 3, I'm already super happy. 2 is a bonus.


----------



## BeeBusy

Kreator said:


> Hi,
> 
> It may be helpful if you came from this at a slightly different angle
> 
> This is very simplistic and in no way scientific!;
> 
> Non Diabetic = your body reglates Blood Glucose and sorts itself out like a thermostat
> 
> Too Hot and Insulin kicks in to cool your Blood Glocose down
> 
> Too Cold and the Liver kicks in and produces Glucose to heat it up
> 
> At Risk Of Diabetes Type 2
> 
> The same happens but this time Insulin is having less of an effect but still manages to cool you down at an increasingly slower rate the more Insulin Resistant you become
> 
> Diabetes Type 2
> 
> The same happens but this time no matter how much insulin is produced it has a lesser and lesser effect as time goes on
> 
> Blood Glucose levels are affected in many ways, stress, exercise, what you've eaten or drunk, which makes it impossible to have a perfect score every time...
> 
> I certainly don't and never have 'Aimed' for a certain level - it is what it is - the main thing is 'Trends over Time' rather than an individual reading - Readings anyway can be 'off' sometimes too...
> 
> I'd advise to use it as a tool to learn what food sets you 'high' rather than chasing a certain level everytime...
> 
> I actually found it enjoyable finding a 'high' as it meant ...Ah, lets not choose that for a while or have a smaller portion...(If you're Diabetic that is)...
> 
> The Newcastle Diet in terms of T2D itself is intended as a weight loss tool initially which is intended to remove Visceral Fat (Around the Liver & Pancreas) so that both can effectively start working again...once everything is working again, generally you can tolerate Carbs again as your body deals with it - the difference for most of us is that we have found different / healthier ways of eating as what we were eating before led us to T2D in the first place....


Yes. I'm not pro diets just to lose weight. I know people who are fat and healthier than myself. They're perfect as they are. Different genes. 

For me, it needs to be more than just losing weight. In this case, the aim of the diet is to let the liver and pancreas do their job, as you say, once you rid them of all the visceral fat, or at least a good chunk of it.

Therefore, tolerate carbs.

Perhaps I come across as someone trying to find a way to gorge on cakes and breads. I'm not like this. I eat healthy.

However: we need to get energy from food. If we don't touch the amount of proteins, we have to manage that energy from fats and carbs. At the moment, I'm having to go more for fats, because I'm more carb intolerant than a normal person. What I'm trying to find out is if losing visceral fat, people could eat more carbs than before.

Not so that I do it and eat tons of cakes, pasta and bread. But I would like to eat more plant based proteins and replace some of the fat with carbs. More than what I can do now. Why? Because I prefer the taste of lentils and chickpeas than that of steak, or chicken, or shrimps, etc. Also, fats raised my cholesterol. I know now people say that high cholesterol is fine. Perhaps it is. But I still don't want mine to be high.

Therefore, I was trying to find out if people who were successful with the Newcastle diet found out they now can tolerate more carbs than before. In my mind, there isn't such a thing as a stupid question. So, I just asked my questions.

I apologize for asking the question and I'm moving on to other parts of the forum, so as not to hijack the thread anymore.


----------



## ColinUK

@BeeBusy no need to apologise for asking questions or for "hijacking" any thread as they're all about conversation really. 

I get what you mean though. I lost weight and my BG was consistently in 5's at waking and also rarely above 6.5 post eating. 
I reintroduced carbs and the weight crept back on slowly. 

My pancreas is working better than it was when I was diagnosed. I can cope with bread and the odd cake without too large a spike in BG and it normalises quite quickly. However I've realised that by "testing" my pancreas' ability to cope it's kidding myself that I can eat 'normally' without too much impact. 

I'm just (today in fact) starting another period of VLCD (800 cal roughly) with a view to focus more on the period after the weight has come off again and building a better foundation to a more sensible and sustainable way of eating without the creeping return of inadvisable carby foods.


----------



## Kreator

BeeBusy said:


> Therefore, I was trying to find out if people who were successful with the Newcastle diet found out they now can tolerate more carbs than before. In my mind, there isn't such a thing as a stupid question. So, I just asked my questions.
> 
> I apologize for asking the question and I'm moving on to other parts of the forum, so as not to hijack the thread anymore.


@BeeBusy,

As @ColinUK said, there are no stupid questions on here, that's what these forums are for...for me though I can't answer your question as I'm not a Carb Counter - I just watch what I eat generally...

I do know though that I eat in a totally diferent way than what I did, and if that means fewer Carbs, that's fine too


----------



## Kreator

Kreator said:


> My weight and Fasting Blood sugar levels have again remained totally stable throughout, as has my waist circumference, so hey ho I guess!
> 
> To be fair, I've had 3 family Birthdays the last couple of months which has kept me fed with home baked cakes etc. (Mindful of course!) so maybe this has contribted to the slightly upwards HbA1C trend - who knows, but it's not weight gain for sure, so will see what happens over the next few months...
> 
> Next HbA1C check is 6 months away, so I'll reflect back on my eating habits and try to adjust slightly if needed...


On reflection over the weekend, I've been under a lot of stress the last few months (Not related to T2D), which until now I hadn't fully appreciated...

Looking at the effects of stress alone seems to point to a rise in Glucose levels...this stress is now beginning to pass, so will see if I can request another HbA1C in 3 months and go from there...

Not totally sure on that one, but I have also been partial to a Starbucks Skinny Mocha or two also - 15g of Sugar per cup! - Hmm, need to curb that a little I think! even though I've not gained any weight....

Several probing Finger Prick results over the weekend also (just for re-assurance) confirm all is working as it should as per Non-Diabetic...(My Fingers hurt lol!!)

I'll update...


----------



## Kreator

I guess it's time for a summary...

I've learned so much from this last year - having been diagnosed with Type 2 nearly 4 years ago, and knowing at that time it's possible for Remission, I set myself to do just that...

For nearly 3 years, I had well controlled HbA1C with full dose of Metformin, along with some lifestyle changes along the way - although my HbA1C was 'Well Controlled' throughout, I never really came close to gaining 'Remission'

I remember asking my DN about Remission and coming off Metformin, only to be told 'We don't like to take patients off medication' - My response was that I couldn't go into 'Remission' if I was still on medication - there was no answer from my DN....

...until March last year, where she handed me a couple of pieces of paper about the NHS Remission Programme, which would mean coming off meds and starting the 'Newcastle Diet' of soups & shakes for 3 months, then 9 months of food re-introduction

I snapped up that chance...

Here I am one year after starting the programme on 10-05-2021 with an official start weight of 77.5Kg, although for the couple of weeks before it, I was 'sampling the new shakes' - 2 weeks before I was 79.8Kg - so I already had a head start! (My weight before this was always around the 80Kg Mark)

My official target weight was 62.5Kg - this is 15Kg official weight loss target - I thought and said at the time - na that's way too much, I want to be thin, but that's unreachable!!!

I found myself losing the weight at around 1Kg a week give or take, and each week gave me more and more motivation as it went on - I remember thinking, ok if I get down to 69Kg that will be ok, but when I got to that figure, I knew it wasn't enough, so carried on - towards the end of the shake period, I was like, ok lets get to around 65Kg, that will be ok - as I came down ove the 12 weeks, I could see the diffrences in my body shape - I still had 'the belly' even at 67K (was probably tiny in comparision to what it was) - I wasn't satisfied so carried on for the whole 12 weeks...

On the 12th week, I got down to 64.3Kg - this was great, and I felt so much better all round! - But....I remembered my original target weight of 62.5Kg - it wasn't far to go now - but I was now starting to re-introduce food which gave me a whole load of other things to think about - what can I eat? what can't I eat? - that was a time, I'll never forget...going round supermarkets, looking at packaging, then thinking...I can't have this, I can't have that etc...

On the food re-introduction stage, as I was still part taking shakes, (half food, half shakes), I decided to keep going and get to 62.5Kg, which I did on 30-09-2021 - I felt I still had some more fat to lose, so gently as I was eating food each week and exploring new foods I hadn't eaten for years, monitored my weight and got to 'my own target weight' of 60Kg - I got to this on 18-10-2021...well 60.1Kg to be presice!

From 18-10-2021 to now, I 've happily bounced between 60.7kg highest (At Xmas!) and 58.9Kg lowest

My food habits ahve totally changed, I now eat 3 meals a day, rarely snack (and that's only if I know my energy levels are low due to working sporadic nights) I of course enjoy the special occasions - it's 'normal' -  My food has changed from eating ultra processed foods full of sugar & carbs to anything as unrefined as possible - porridge oats, sourdough bread (the real kind) wholewheat pasta & wholegrain rice, plenty of eggs poached of course, and enjoy a wide variety of food - all within mindful habits - if there's a special occasion coming up, I still don't go to excess...

I probably average around 2000 Cals per day, but I don't count it now - I kinda know how how much as well as only eating until I'm full which has taken quite a while to understand 'how do I know I'm full' - takes a little time, but you start to recognise the signals...I don't count Carbs either - although I'm mindful of them...mostly!

I've not had a KFC for well over a year now - to be honest, there's better more nutriscious food available, so don't feel the need to go near it - I will eat another at some point I'm sure, but it's not necessary...

So a year on and I'm fully 'In Remission' and to be honest feel better than I have done in years, so don't intend going back...

If anyone has the opportunity to get on this, please do, it's a lifesaver!

However - It's ONLY a Lifesaver if you find and sustain your new habits - if you go back to what you were eating before, you'll eventually tip into the zone again - it's for life not 12 months....(but once the 12 months is done, new habits and new ways of thinking around food will keep you going)

If not available in your area, I fully recommend following @Weekender, @ColinUK, @travellor - all 3 of you have helped me along my own journey with some truly fascinating and thought provoking insights - THANK YOU!

on 09-05-2022 My official end weight is 59.2Kg, which I've been between 60.5Kg <> 59Kg since 11-10-2021 - This was probably the hardest part - to maintain - but in the end once you have a grip on your new habits, it becomes automatic, and becomes easier as time goes by...

What a Jouney!!!


----------



## ColinUK

@Kreator  what a stunning achievement and what a much needed kick up the backside for me. 
I did it, reverted to old ways, put the weight back on and have had a number of false starts doing it again. 
I’ve just restarted, fell off the wagon and am commencing again tomorrow for a 4 week run. 

Which brand of shakes did you use?


----------



## Kreator

ColinUK said:


> @Kreator  what a stunning achievement and what a much needed kick up the backside for me.
> I did it, reverted to old ways, put the weight back on and have had a number of false starts doing it again.
> I’ve just restarted, fell off the wagon and am commencing again tomorrow for a 4 week run.
> 
> Which brand of shakes did you use?


It was Optifast - provided by Nestle of all companies!

The think I found though was that these were limited in flavour choice, so I 'Just got on with it' if that makes sense?

I found the limiting choice was easier than having to decide - I've seen various Exante posts / videos - for me that would have been a procrastination waiting to happen - which one where, how, what if I don't like that one etc...

The Optifast choices I was given were;

Chocolate Shake
Strawberry Shake
Vanilla Shake
Coffee Shake

Soup - ewww

2 Different bars for chewyness

I found generally;

Coffee shake in the morning  - with a black...coffee!
Bar for Lunch
Vanilla shake around 4pm
Coffee of Chocolate shake around 7pm

Tried the soup, but no it was awful - so gave that a miss

For me at the time, it was like doing a chore - just had to be done - said 8 weeks of this will do, but the closer I got the more I thought - may as well keep going...until the 12 weeks was done - was hard to begin with but eased after a couple of weeks and just became normal...

Yep, I've been reading your posts also...you're doing great - I guess it's just a case of catching that bus and don't get off till you've achieved your goal - 4 weeks isn't long - just get through one week at a time - don't think about the full 9 yards - little steps....


----------



## Christy

Kreator said:


> I guess it's time for a summary...
> 
> I've learned so much from this last year - having been diagnosed with Type 2 nearly 4 years ago, and knowing at that time it's possible for Remission, I set myself to do just that...
> 
> For nearly 3 years, I had well controlled HbA1C with full dose of Metformin, along with some lifestyle changes along the way - although my HbA1C was 'Well Controlled' throughout, I never really came close to gaining 'Remission'
> 
> I remember asking my DN about Remission and coming off Metformin, only to be told 'We don't like to take patients off medication' - My response was that I couldn't go into 'Remission' if I was still on medication - there was no answer from my DN....
> 
> ...until March last year, where she handed me a couple of pieces of paper about the NHS Remission Programme, which would mean coming off meds and starting the 'Newcastle Diet' of soups & shakes for 3 months, then 9 months of food re-introduction
> 
> I snapped up that chance...
> 
> Here I am one year after starting the programme on 10-05-2021 with an official start weight of 77.5Kg, although for the couple of weeks before it, I was 'sampling the new shakes' - 2 weeks before I was 79.8Kg - so I already had a head start! (My weight before this was always around the 80Kg Mark)
> 
> My official target weight was 62.5Kg - this is 15Kg official weight loss target - I thought and said at the time - na that's way too much, I want to be thin, but that's unreachable!!!
> 
> I found myself losing the weight at around 1Kg a week give or take, and each week gave me more and more motivation as it went on - I remember thinking, ok if I get down to 69Kg that will be ok, but when I got to that figure, I knew it wasn't enough, so carried on - towards the end of the shake period, I was like, ok lets get to around 65Kg, that will be ok - as I came down ove the 12 weeks, I could see the diffrences in my body shape - I still had 'the belly' even at 67K (was probably tiny in comparision to what it was) - I wasn't satisfied so carried on for the whole 12 weeks...
> 
> On the 12th week, I got down to 64.3Kg - this was great, and I felt so much better all round! - But....I remembered my original target weight of 62.5Kg - it wasn't far to go now - but I was now starting to re-introduce food which gave me a whole load of other things to think about - what can I eat? what can't I eat? - that was a time, I'll never forget...going round supermarkets, looking at packaging, then thinking...I can't have this, I can't have that etc...
> 
> On the food re-introduction stage, as I was still part taking shakes, (half food, half shakes), I decided to keep going and get to 62.5Kg, which I did on 30-09-2021 - I felt I still had some more fat to lose, so gently as I was eating food each week and exploring new foods I hadn't eaten for years, monitored my weight and got to 'my own target weight' of 60Kg - I got to this on 18-10-2021...well 60.1Kg to be presice!
> 
> From 18-10-2021 to now, I 've happily bounced between 60.7kg highest (At Xmas!) and 58.9Kg lowest
> 
> My food habits ahve totally changed, I now eat 3 meals a day, rarely snack (and that's only if I know my energy levels are low due to working sporadic nights) I of course enjoy the special occasions - it's 'normal' -  My food has changed from eating ultra processed foods full of sugar & carbs to anything as unrefined as possible - porridge oats, sourdough bread (the real kind) wholewheat pasta & wholegrain rice, plenty of eggs poached of course, and enjoy a wide variety of food - all within mindful habits - if there's a special occasion coming up, I still don't go to excess...
> 
> I probably average around 2000 Cals per day, but I don't count it now - I kinda know how how much as well as only eating until I'm full which has taken quite a while to understand 'how do I know I'm full' - takes a little time, but you start to recognise the signals...I don't count Carbs either - although I'm mindful of them...mostly!
> 
> I've not had a KFC for well over a year now - to be honest, there's better more nutriscious food available, so don't feel the need to go near it - I will eat another at some point I'm sure, but it's not necessary...
> 
> So a year on and I'm fully 'In Remission' and to be honest feel better than I have done in years, so don't intend going back...
> 
> If anyone has the opportunity to get on this, please do, it's a lifesaver!
> 
> However - It's ONLY a Lifesaver if you find and sustain your new habits - if you go back to what you were eating before, you'll eventually tip into the zone again - it's for life not 12 months....(but once the 12 months is done, new habits and new ways of thinking around food will keep you going)
> 
> If not available in your area, I fully recommend following @Weekender, @ColinUK, @travellor - all 3 of you have helped me along my own journey with some truly fascinating and thought provoking insights - THANK YOU!
> 
> on 09-05-2022 My official end weight is 59.2Kg, which I've been between 60.5Kg <> 59Kg since 11-10-2021 - This was probably the hardest part - to maintain - but in the end once you have a grip on your new habits, it becomes automatic, and becomes easier as time goes by...
> 
> What a Jouney!!!


Well done! Fantastic


----------



## Weekender

Kreator said:


> I guess it's time for a summary...
> 
> I've learned so much from this last year - having been diagnosed with Type 2 nearly 4 years ago, and knowing at that time it's possible for Remission, I set myself to do just that...
> 
> For nearly 3 years, I had well controlled HbA1C with full dose of Metformin, along with some lifestyle changes along the way - although my HbA1C was 'Well Controlled' throughout, I never really came close to gaining 'Remission'
> 
> I remember asking my DN about Remission and coming off Metformin, only to be told 'We don't like to take patients off medication' - My response was that I couldn't go into 'Remission' if I was still on medication - there was no answer from my DN....
> 
> ...until March last year, where she handed me a couple of pieces of paper about the NHS Remission Programme, which would mean coming off meds and starting the 'Newcastle Diet' of soups & shakes for 3 months, then 9 months of food re-introduction
> 
> I snapped up that chance...
> 
> Here I am one year after starting the programme on 10-05-2021 with an official start weight of 77.5Kg, although for the couple of weeks before it, I was 'sampling the new shakes' - 2 weeks before I was 79.8Kg - so I already had a head start! (My weight before this was always around the 80Kg Mark)
> 
> My official target weight was 62.5Kg - this is 15Kg official weight loss target - I thought and said at the time - na that's way too much, I want to be thin, but that's unreachable!!!
> 
> I found myself losing the weight at around 1Kg a week give or take, and each week gave me more and more motivation as it went on - I remember thinking, ok if I get down to 69Kg that will be ok, but when I got to that figure, I knew it wasn't enough, so carried on - towards the end of the shake period, I was like, ok lets get to around 65Kg, that will be ok - as I came down ove the 12 weeks, I could see the diffrences in my body shape - I still had 'the belly' even at 67K (was probably tiny in comparision to what it was) - I wasn't satisfied so carried on for the whole 12 weeks...
> 
> On the 12th week, I got down to 64.3Kg - this was great, and I felt so much better all round! - But....I remembered my original target weight of 62.5Kg - it wasn't far to go now - but I was now starting to re-introduce food which gave me a whole load of other things to think about - what can I eat? what can't I eat? - that was a time, I'll never forget...going round supermarkets, looking at packaging, then thinking...I can't have this, I can't have that etc...
> 
> On the food re-introduction stage, as I was still part taking shakes, (half food, half shakes), I decided to keep going and get to 62.5Kg, which I did on 30-09-2021 - I felt I still had some more fat to lose, so gently as I was eating food each week and exploring new foods I hadn't eaten for years, monitored my weight and got to 'my own target weight' of 60Kg - I got to this on 18-10-2021...well 60.1Kg to be presice!
> 
> From 18-10-2021 to now, I 've happily bounced between 60.7kg highest (At Xmas!) and 58.9Kg lowest
> 
> My food habits ahve totally changed, I now eat 3 meals a day, rarely snack (and that's only if I know my energy levels are low due to working sporadic nights) I of course enjoy the special occasions - it's 'normal' -  My food has changed from eating ultra processed foods full of sugar & carbs to anything as unrefined as possible - porridge oats, sourdough bread (the real kind) wholewheat pasta & wholegrain rice, plenty of eggs poached of course, and enjoy a wide variety of food - all within mindful habits - if there's a special occasion coming up, I still don't go to excess...
> 
> I probably average around 2000 Cals per day, but I don't count it now - I kinda know how how much as well as only eating until I'm full which has taken quite a while to understand 'how do I know I'm full' - takes a little time, but you start to recognise the signals...I don't count Carbs either - although I'm mindful of them...mostly!
> 
> I've not had a KFC for well over a year now - to be honest, there's better more nutriscious food available, so don't feel the need to go near it - I will eat another at some point I'm sure, but it's not necessary...
> 
> So a year on and I'm fully 'In Remission' and to be honest feel better than I have done in years, so don't intend going back...
> 
> If anyone has the opportunity to get on this, please do, it's a lifesaver!
> 
> However - It's ONLY a Lifesaver if you find and sustain your new habits - if you go back to what you were eating before, you'll eventually tip into the zone again - it's for life not 12 months....(but once the 12 months is done, new habits and new ways of thinking around food will keep you going)
> 
> If not available in your area, I fully recommend following @Weekender, @ColinUK, @travellor - all 3 of you have helped me along my own journey with some truly fascinating and thought provoking insights - THANK YOU!
> 
> on 09-05-2022 My official end weight is 59.2Kg, which I've been between 60.5Kg <> 59Kg since 11-10-2021 - This was probably the hardest part - to maintain - but in the end once you have a grip on your new habits, it becomes automatic, and becomes easier as time goes by...
> 
> What a Jouney!!!


I think you have done a superb job changing your eating habits @Kreator Keep the faith !


----------



## Kreator

So....It's been 3 months since my year long NHS Low Calorie Program ended...

...It's strange looking back at 15 months of all sorts of data, thoughts, questions, doubts, highs, lows, scientific evidence, opinions and a general rollercoaster of a ride the whole way through - the whole process has totally reset many areas of my life...

I still continue to weigh myself once a week, and felt I wanted to drop a little further (only around 1Kg further) - just to take the edge off the celebratory times of slight over indulgence - so my weight now hovers nicely between 58 - 59 Kg, which suits me perfectly...

I felt the time was right (2 weeks ago) to take on a 14 day trial of 'Libre 2' purely for scientific reasons - to see what happens with my blood glucose now - I don't have a scooby of what was happenning when Diabetes was in full swing other than my levels were generally high...

14 day trial has just ended, and to be honest, I wouldn't rcommend for the feint hearted - the headline figures when you scan can be difficult to take in on occasions, and you need to see the overall picture as to what's going on - it's a long game...

My levels did exactly what I thought they would (although levels from the sensor were generally high compared to a finger prick (aware of the lag and everything else etc..) - low overnight (3.5 - 4.5), then during the day between 5-6, an hour after eating I would spike to differing degrees depending on what I'd eaten then by 90 minutes would start to come down, and by 2 hours be back to normal generally - Stress plays a huge part - I could see when I was stressed levels would shoot up, so need to watch that a bit!

During exercise or slower walks my levels drop considerably after eating - the do bounce back though after exercise - so stress from exercise also plays a part - the settle down again nicely though after a while...

HbA1C estimate from the sensor is 34 - aware this isn't generally considered accurate but still, I'll take that...

So...how do I keep doing it? - I keep asking myself the same question, but for sure there are a couple of main things...

Habits - Eating - I still eat 3 meals per day - breakfast is always the same, lunch varies, and dinner varies too - probably total Calorie intake of just over 2000 Cals a day - more on fuller days, less on conservative days

Habits - Exercise - I still walk, jog, run, skip! at least 10,000 step per day - even if sometimes I don't feel like it - I feel so much better every time! - I only jog/run if I feel like I want to - I also vary the speed of my walking too - fast, slow, inbetween depending on how I'm feeling - but in any case, the main point is to remain active whatever that involves...

Again, ,thank you to everyone on this forum - life wouldn't be the same without the support from every single contributor, it helps so many people whether Type 1, 2 3c etc - it's a massive help!


----------



## ShelbyR

Kreator said:


> Week 14 - And another week done - 1.1Kg lost this week! - I feel like a kid again, so much energy to burn off, walking more and more each day, cycling - it's ridiculous!
> 
> Weight loss as at week 14 - 63.2Kg
> 
> Starting Weight - 77.5Kg
> Week 14 Weight - 53.2Kg
> Total Weight Loss = 14.3Kg
> 
> I feel so much more full of energy now - I'm now on full food intake - roughly 1200 - 1500 Cals a day for now
> 
> All done! - Now just to maintain it which at the moment feels totally within my own mind, body & tummy!


How is it going a few months on? Has it been easy to adjust back to full food and not gain weight back? 
I have just been diagnosed Type 2 - 54, so I'm just nosing around the forum to see what has worked for people as I wonder if weight loss is a way forward for me (currently 16.8stone - 5'8) I'm very cautious of extreme diets as historically they haven't worked for me long term - I think emotional eating plays a part in my weight, so I think I have to address that first - so I'm interested in how you're doing a few months on. And well done btw! What great achievements - very inspiring!


----------



## Leadinglights

ShelbyR said:


> How is it going a few months on? Has it been easy to adjust back to full food and not gain weight back?
> I have just been diagnosed Type 2 - 54, so I'm just nosing around the forum to see what has worked for people as I wonder if weight loss is a way forward for me (currently 16.8stone - 5'8) I'm very cautious of extreme diets as historically they haven't worked for me long term - I think emotional eating plays a part in my weight, so I think I have to address that first - so I'm interested in how you're doing a few months on. And well done btw! What great achievements - very inspiring!


@ShelbyR You are right 'extreme' diets don't work for many people and they end up putting more weight back than they lost. Your HbA1C is not desperately high so losing some weight and reducing your carbohydrate intake should bring it back to a normal level. However, it is to become a new way of eating for the long term not a quick fix.
Whatever approach you adopt has to be enjoyable otherwise it is not sustainable. Some do choose to go with a shakes-based or low calorie regime which can give a kick start but many also find a low carbohydrate approach is successful. That does not mean NO carbs but keeping your intake to a level that your body can tolerate and that will be different for different people.
Have a look at this link as you may find that gives you some ideas for tackling a change in diet that will suit you as it is based on real food. https://lowcarbfreshwell.co.uk/


----------



## travellor

ShelbyR said:


> How is it going a few months on? Has it been easy to adjust back to full food and not gain weight back?
> I have just been diagnosed Type 2 - 54, so I'm just nosing around the forum to see what has worked for people as I wonder if weight loss is a way forward for me (currently 16.8stone - 5'8) I'm very cautious of extreme diets as historically they haven't worked for me long term - I think emotional eating plays a part in my weight, so I think I have to address that first - so I'm interested in how you're doing a few months on. And well done btw! What great achievements - very inspiring!



Weight loss definitely worked for me.
Like you, I'm not sure just tweaking what I eat now would have worked for me, I knew committing to an extreme low carb diet for life would have stopped me dead in the lifestyle I have, and reading the stories of "carb creep" it certainly seems to need continued attention.
I tend to be spontaneous, and enjoy eating out and grabbing food on the go, so again not a good choice.

I went for the Newcastle diet to lose weight, shake based, as that severed the ties with food mentally as well.
It also meant I had a clean slate when I started eating normal food again, so I chose a healthy Mediterranean diet, low in fat, to keep the calories down and keep the weight off long term, but still eat anything if there isn't any other choice.


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## Kreator

ShelbyR said:


> How is it going a few months on? Has it been easy to adjust back to full food and not gain weight back?
> I have just been diagnosed Type 2 - 54, so I'm just nosing around the forum to see what has worked for people as I wonder if weight loss is a way forward for me (currently 16.8stone - 5'8) I'm very cautious of extreme diets as historically they haven't worked for me long term - I think emotional eating plays a part in my weight, so I think I have to address that first - so I'm interested in how you're doing a few months on. And well done btw! What great achievements - very inspiring!


Hi @ShelbyR, welcome to the forum!

I've been through quite some journey to be honest in the last 18 months!

The key to 'Remission' really is losing 15Kg of weight as Roy Taylor's studies show (DiRECT) and more recently ReTune - (This one is for people that aren't overweight but have built up internal (Viceral) fat, so not quite 15Kg needed

The term 'Diet' can be very misleading generally - For example, you could say I'm on a 'Diet' now but it's a sustainable diet which isn't restricting, so therefore I can't 'fall off the wagon' so to speak! - I'm not calling it a 'Diet' - it's more of a lifestyle...

Like others have said, there is no quick fix here - it's a life change, so losing weight is only one part of the story - for me, the soup / shake thing was the quickest and easiest part, the hardest part was looking at my everyday life and how to fit the right foods into it without either gaining weight back or grabbing unhealthy foods - it took a lot of learning about what food is, what it does to your body, why certain foods spike blood glucose and how to manage it - the list for me goes on and on!

For sure though, losing the weight quickly initially through shakes, then 're-learning' everythng about food and fitting that in around my lifestyle over many months has made food 'automatic' in many ways, but I still make those decicions about what to eat when all the time - some days are easier than others, but as time goes on it gets easier and easier....

My weight is stable at 57Kg - 58Kg - which I'm happy with - I of course have those 'special occasions' or holiday modes, but I still weigh myself once a week, which I feel just keeps me in check  

Which ever jouney you choose, is up to you, but losing wieght quickly is the key initially...

In terms of emotional eating, yep - I've had some weird things crop up, which have been tied to emotions - I've purposfully looked at those times to reflect on 'why did I do that' and reflected and learned how to change my thinking - a lot of this jouney for me has been 'recflection' - I do it a lot, and for me has helped no end to learn and move on - we all have our habits - good or bad, and it's more about learning to change those habits than feeling guilty about things - for instance - I used to walk to the fridge out of boredom, eat something just because - my thinking now is to go for a walk instead! - It works too!

Hope I've helped in some way, let us know how you get on!

PS - I have my HbA1C next week (6 months on) , so I'll post an update once I get the results back


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## ShelbyR

Leadinglights said:


> @ShelbyR You are right 'extreme' diets don't work for many people and they end up putting more weight back than they lost. Your HbA1C is not desperately high so losing some weight and reducing your carbohydrate intake should bring it back to a normal level. However, it is to become a new way of eating for the long term not a quick fix.
> Whatever approach you adopt has to be enjoyable otherwise it is not sustainable. Some do choose to go with a shakes-based or low calorie regime which can give a kick start but many also find a low carbohydrate approach is successful. That does not mean NO carbs but keeping your intake to a level that your body can tolerate and that will be different for different people.
> Have a look at this link as you may find that gives you some ideas for tackling a change in diet that will suit you as it is based on real food. https://lowcarbfreshwell.co.uk/


Thank you for this.. yes, it's the 'enjoyable / sustainable / impactful' Bermuda Triangle.. I have this inbuilt phrase - of 'but I eat really healthily already' which is true - some/ of the time/every now and again.. I mean I own Tahini and seeds, I love kale and am addicted to slaw, that's all I need right!  ..... and the other times I'm like a toddler in a candy/chip/kebab shop/michelin restaurant/cocktail bar (ok maybe not a toddler in those last few.. ... Like you say - the biggest shift for me is to think of the shift being  'a lifestyle change' a forever thing, as opposed to a 'I'll do this for 3 months' as I have given up sugar and carbs before plenty of times, and still my numbers are rising. I was on a Physical theatre course at the beginning of this year for 3 months - dance classes/yoga/movement up to 5 hours a day...not eating rice or sugar or alcohol... and still my numbers are what they are. I am not good at consistency or moderation... (in anything!!) and have a weirdly successful life with being proud of this.. so there are now big changes to be made.  (Saying no to free booze at conferences??! Not eating the free food?! The pasty/sausage roll in the car on the way to..anywhere.....no to sugary cocktails....ugh!!)
This is going to be hard. 
My doctor has prescribed me Metformin. Which I'm going to start in the next few weeks..
Anyway. Thanks for your response. I'll look into the website. Altho the thought of shakes fills me with 80's dread.. 
x


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## ShelbyR

Kreator said:


> Hi @ShelbyR, welcome to the forum!
> 
> I've been through quite some journey to be honest in the last 18 months!
> 
> The key to 'Remission' really is losing 15Kg of weight as Roy Taylor's studies show (DiRECT) and more recently ReTune - (This one is for people that aren't overweight but have built up internal (Viceral) fat, so not quite 15Kg needed
> 
> The term 'Diet' can be very misleading generally - For example, you could say I'm on a 'Diet' now but it's a sustainable diet which isn't restricting, so therefore I can't 'fall off the wagon' so to speak! - I'm not calling it a 'Diet' - it's more of a lifestyle...
> 
> Like others have said, there is no quick fix here - it's a life change, so losing weight is only one part of the story - for me, the soup / shake thing was the quickest and easiest part, the hardest part was looking at my everyday life and how to fit the right foods into it without either gaining weight back or grabbing unhealthy foods - it took a lot of learning about what food is, what it does to your body, why certain foods spike blood glucose and how to manage it - the list for me goes on and on!
> 
> For sure though, losing the weight quickly initially through shakes, then 're-learning' everythng about food and fitting that in around my lifestyle over many months has made food 'automatic' in many ways, but I still make those decicions about what to eat when all the time - some days are easier than others, but as time goes on it gets easier and easier....
> 
> My weight is stable at 57Kg - 58Kg - which I'm happy with - I of course have those 'special occasions' or holiday modes, but I still weigh myself once a week, which I feel just keeps me in check
> 
> Which ever jouney you choose, is up to you, but losing wieght quickly is the key initially...
> 
> In terms of emotional eating, yep - I've had some weird things crop up, which have been tied to emotions - I've purposfully looked at those times to reflect on 'why did I do that' and reflected and learned how to change my thinking - a lot of this jouney for me has been 'recflection' - I do it a lot, and for me has helped no end to learn and move on - we all have our habits - good or bad, and it's more about learning to change those habits than feeling guilty about things - for instance - I used to walk to the fridge out of boredom, eat something just because - my thinking now is to go for a walk instead! - It works too!
> 
> Hope I've helped in some way, let us know how you get on!
> 
> PS - I have my HbA1C next week (6 months on) , so I'll post an update once I get the results back


Thanks for your response.. it's a constant reinstatement of the 'It's not a quick fix' mantra. 
And yes, thats great advice actually - being reflective about why I respond in a certain way to food... and what my 'triggers' are... and finding an alternative - thank you. 
I think I was 57kg last when I was 10 years old! hah. 
As a 'fat activist' in the sense that I believe there are fat healthy & unhealthy people, and thin healthy & unhealthy people - but people don't discriminate against the thin unhealthy people at all in the same way - in fact it's often celebrated to be thin and unhealthy - I also find this a bit of a minefield. It's making be reflect on a lot of stuff. 
Anyway. Thank you for your response and time. And yes, look forward to the next update! x


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## Leadinglights

ShelbyR said:


> Thank you for this.. yes, it's the 'enjoyable / sustainable / impactful' Bermuda Triangle.. I have this inbuilt phrase - of 'but I eat really healthily already' which is true - some/ of the time/every now and again.. I mean I own Tahini and seeds, I love kale and am addicted to slaw, that's all I need right!  ..... and the other times I'm like a toddler in a candy/chip/kebab shop/michelin restaurant/cocktail bar (ok maybe not a toddler in those last few.. ... Like you say - the biggest shift for me is to think of the shift being  'a lifestyle change' a forever thing, as opposed to a 'I'll do this for 3 months' as I have given up sugar and carbs before plenty of times, and still my numbers are rising. I was on a Physical theatre course at the beginning of this year for 3 months - dance classes/yoga/movement up to 5 hours a day...not eating rice or sugar or alcohol... and still my numbers are what they are. I am not good at consistency or moderation... (in anything!!) and have a weirdly successful life with being proud of this.. so there are now big changes to be made.  (Saying no to free booze at conferences??! Not eating the free food?! The pasty/sausage roll in the car on the way to..anywhere.....no to sugary cocktails....ugh!!)
> This is going to be hard.
> My doctor has prescribed me Metformin. Which I'm going to start in the next few weeks..
> Anyway. Thanks for your response. I'll look into the website. Altho the thought of shakes fills me with 80's dread..
> x


Me too, the link I posted was based on REAL food.


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## travellor

ShelbyR said:


> Thank you for this.. yes, it's the 'enjoyable / sustainable / impactful' Bermuda Triangle.. I have this inbuilt phrase - of 'but I eat really healthily already' which is true - some/ of the time/every now and again.. I mean I own Tahini and seeds, I love kale and am addicted to slaw, that's all I need right!  ..... and the other times I'm like a toddler in a candy/chip/kebab shop/michelin restaurant/cocktail bar (ok maybe not a toddler in those last few.. ... Like you say - the biggest shift for me is to think of the shift being  'a lifestyle change' a forever thing, as opposed to a 'I'll do this for 3 months' as I have given up sugar and carbs before plenty of times, and still my numbers are rising. I was on a Physical theatre course at the beginning of this year for 3 months - dance classes/yoga/movement up to 5 hours a day...not eating rice or sugar or alcohol... and still my numbers are what they are. I am not good at consistency or moderation... (in anything!!) and have a weirdly successful life with being proud of this.. so there are now big changes to be made.  (Saying no to free booze at conferences??! Not eating the free food?! The pasty/sausage roll in the car on the way to..anywhere.....no to sugary cocktails....ugh!!)
> This is going to be hard.
> My doctor has prescribed me Metformin. Which I'm going to start in the next few weeks..
> Anyway. Thanks for your response. I'll look into the website. Altho the thought of shakes fills me with 80's dread..
> x


Got to be a Gregg's Steak Bake for me.
(Although I believe some people take cold boiled eggs with them instead, as a replacement)


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## Kreator

Just a short update...

HbA1C Nov 2022 - 38!

I'll take that given in the last few weeks I've moved house! (Stressful times, but joyful at the same time...would have to be at a time my HbA1C is due wouldn't it?!)

It's only when you move you ralise how much junk you've accumulated!

Cholesterol results expected soon - not so confident about those, but Statins I suppose will be a small price to pay...still in Remission which is the main aim here...


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## Kreator

Kreator said:


> Cholesterol results expected soon - not so confident about those, but Statins I suppose will be a small price to pay...still in Remission which is the main aim here...


Cholesterol results are in....

I'm a little surprised but...

Serum cholesterol level - 4.4 mmol/L
Serum HDL cholesterol level - 1.40 mmol/L
Serum triglyceride - 1.1 mmol/L
Serum LDL cholesterol level - 2.5 mmol/L
Serum non high density lipoprotein cholesterol level - 3.0 mmol/L

Serum cholesterol/HDL ratio - 3.1

Over the moon with this result - especially Triglycerides - 6 months ago it was 2.0 mmol/L - I didn't fast before test and had breakfast an hour and a half before bloods taken - I did then go for a short walk after breakfast but wasn't expecting this result!

This means for me, no Statins for the timebeing!


I think this also shows me that I'm still doing the right things and to keep on as I am, couldn't be happier to be honest!


----------



## travellor

Kreator said:


> Cholesterol results are in....
> 
> I'm a little surprised but...
> 
> Serum cholesterol level - 4.4 mmol/L
> Serum HDL cholesterol level - 1.40 mmol/L
> Serum triglyceride - 1.1 mmol/L
> Serum LDL cholesterol level - 2.5 mmol/L
> Serum non high density lipoprotein cholesterol level - 3.0 mmol/L
> 
> Serum cholesterol/HDL ratio - 3.1
> 
> Over the moon with this result - especially Triglycerides - 6 months ago it was 2.0 mmol/L - I didn't fast before test and had breakfast an hour and a half before bloods taken - I did then go for a short walk after breakfast but wasn't expecting this result!
> 
> This means for me, no Statins for the timebeing!
> 
> 
> I think this also shows me that I'm still doing the right things and to keep on as I am, couldn't be happier to be honest!



What sort of diet are you on now?


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## Kreator

travellor said:


> What sort of diet are you on now?


This one is kind of tricky to answer, but not at the same time...

The easiest anser is that I eat a 'generally healthy balanced diet & active lifestyle' - but that doesn't really answer the question - what is a generally healthy balanced diet anyway??!! - We all hear it everywhere - including on the back of a packet of crisps!

...But this is what I do...eat a generally healthy balanced diet with an active lifestyle...

Since I re-introduced food after soups / shakes all that time ago, I've had to re-learn everything about food and what it is, what it does, how much & when etc...

My work life is full of random day / night work and I've had to adjust food into my lifestyle - especially at night...

I generally eat 3 meals a day, if I'm working nights, I stagger that and eat breakfast a little later, then by dinner time have my last meal for the day at the latest 7pm

I'm always out and about, so generally lunch is on the road, so I had to have some go-to's so I just grab for the nearest Mc'd's etc...

I'll have lighter days and heavier days just like everyone, and it's pretty much automatic these days - it's always a choice and I don't always sacrifice 'treats' if you like - it wouldn't be sustainable to not eat a little of what you fancy every now & again...

I guess it's based on calories (around 2100 - 2300 per day), but it's not just about calories, it's about fibre, protein, carbs (yes carbs!) - but it's more about what would I like to eat today - what does my body need as opposed to - I have to have a KFC now...!

I listen to my body, keep active and if I feel I've had too many carbs, I can burn that energy off - I feel it...and burning it off feels good - but also if I'm tired, I need that carb to repair myself etc etc...

I can have a Starbucks Skinny Mocha - either as a treat or if I need a pick-up (pick-up accepted as temporary, I can feel that too!) - But just not every single day....

I'm not sure if any of the above makes any sense, none of this did to me 2 years ago, I can only hope all of this is useful of others - It's easy for people to say eat less, move more and eat as part of a healthy balanced diet and lifestyle - it's not so easy to impliment!

I'm by no means a Low Carb person, but have become minful about Carbs as well as everything else...


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## travellor

Kreator said:


> This one is kind of tricky to answer, but not at the same time...
> 
> The easiest anser is that I eat a 'generally healthy balanced diet & active lifestyle' - but that doesn't really answer the question - what is a generally healthy balanced diet anyway??!! - We all hear it everywhere - including on the back of a packet of crisps!
> 
> ...But this is what I do...eat a generally healthy balanced diet with an active lifestyle...
> 
> Since I re-introduced food after soups / shakes all that time ago, I've had to re-learn everything about food and what it is, what it does, how much & when etc...
> 
> My work life is full of random day / night work and I've had to adjust food into my lifestyle - especially at night...
> 
> I generally eat 3 meals a day, if I'm working nights, I stagger that and eat breakfast a little later, then by dinner time have my last meal for the day at the latest 7pm
> 
> I'm always out and about, so generally lunch is on the road, so I had to have some go-to's so I just grab for the nearest Mc'd's etc...
> 
> I'll have lighter days and heavier days just like everyone, and it's pretty much automatic these days - it's always a choice and I don't always sacrifice 'treats' if you like - it wouldn't be sustainable to not eat a little of what you fancy every now & again...
> 
> I guess it's based on calories (around 2100 - 2300 per day), but it's not just about calories, it's about fibre, protein, carbs (yes carbs!) - but it's more about what would I like to eat today - what does my body need as opposed to - I have to have a KFC now...!
> 
> I listen to my body, keep active and if I feel I've had too many carbs, I can burn that energy off - I feel it...and burning it off feels good - but also if I'm tired, I need that carb to repair myself etc etc...
> 
> I can have a Starbucks Skinny Mocha - either as a treat or if I need a pick-up (pick-up accepted as temporary, I can feel that too!) - But just not every single day....
> 
> I'm not sure if any of the above makes any sense, none of this did to me 2 years ago, I can only hope all of this is useful of others - It's easy for people to say eat less, move more and eat as part of a healthy balanced diet and lifestyle - it's not so easy to impliment!
> 
> I'm by no means a Low Carb person, but have become minful about Carbs as well as everything else...



Sounds a reasonable way to go.
That was why I went for the Newcastle diet as well.
I go for a Mediterranean style, avoid the fats, especially saturated.
But, I wanted the option to grab anything if I needed to at times.
I was just asking in a round about way why you expected bad cholesterol results?
I take statins, but I started them a while ago, and just haven't not had them, so I see no reason to stop now.


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## Kreator

travellor said:


> Sounds a reasonable way to go.
> That was why I went for the Newcastle diet as well.
> I go for a Mediterranean style, avoid the fats, especially saturated.
> But, I wanted the option to grab anything if I needed to at times.
> I was just asking in a round about way why you expected bad cholesterol results?
> I take statins, but I started them a while ago, and just haven't not had them, so I see no reason to stop now.


Yep, see...there's a lot to look at...my thing is based on the less processed the food is the better, which includes less saturates fats - don't get me wrong, I'll have fish, chips & mushy peas every now & again, but this is much less processed than a burger chain...

You could call it a mediterranean diet, but I can't pin-point my diet - It's a hybrid of sorts really - mainly med I guess, I think I made the decision early on not to 'limit' myself to any particular label, but if I was a label it would be a med mainly...but more the less processed the food is the better...

I'm extremely hard on myself at times, and expecting bad results is part of that - but it's really encouraging that I can see that what I'm doing not only feels right, but the results seem to show this too...

When my Dr said (directly after going into Remission) she wanted me back on Statins, it felt like a kick in the teeth - after all the hard work I'd put in, there's a sting in the tail etc...

I knew I needed some time for everything to settle down, and it has to an extent, I feel more confident each day that goes by, I'm doing the right things - it's almost 'natural' in terms of my overall lifestyle now - where as directly after losing all the weight, I was almost a nervous wreck!

I guess I need the proof before I believe it kind of thing - But at the same time don't get over confident, otherwise I'll be right back where I started! - The results are good enough to be confident I'm doing the right things, and not a million miles away from going back to where I was...

If I need to, I'll go back on Statins, and I think inevitably that's what will happen as I age - it's all part of it I guess


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## travellor

Kreator said:


> Yep, see...there's a lot to look at...my thing is based on the less processed the food is the better, which includes less saturates fats - don't get me wrong, I'll have fish, chips & mushy peas every now & again, but this is much less processed than a burger chain...
> 
> You could call it a mediterranean diet, but I can't pin-point my diet - It's a hybrid of sorts really - mainly med I guess, I think I made the decision early on not to 'limit' myself to any particular label, but if I was a label it would be a med mainly...but more the less processed the food is the better...
> 
> I'm extremely hard on myself at times, and expecting bad results is part of that - but it's really encouraging that I can see that what I'm doing not only feels right, but the results seem to show this too...
> 
> When my Dr said (directly after going into Remission) she wanted me back on Statins, it felt like a kick in the teeth - after all the hard work I'd put in, there's a sting in the tail etc...
> 
> I knew I needed some time for everything to settle down, and it has to an extent, I feel more confident each day that goes by, I'm doing the right things - it's almost 'natural' in terms of my overall lifestyle now - where as directly after losing all the weight, I was almost a nervous wreck!
> 
> I guess I need the proof before I believe it kind of thing - But at the same time don't get over confident, otherwise I'll be right back where I started! - The results are good enough to be confident I'm doing the right things, and not a million miles away from going back to where I was...
> 
> If I need to, I'll go back on Statins, and I think inevitably that's what will happen as I age - it's all part of it I guess



The take away is
Once you've done it, you know what works, so any wobbles and you can do it again.

I view my lifestyle as fluctuating, it's not a purely level weight, bloods, lipids, I just look at the trends now, if the drift is in the wrong direction, I'll make changes I need to.
I've been accused of yo yo dieting for that,  I had a good lock down Christmas, I did a January catch up.
I can't see that as bad, so long as it suits me, I like a bit of slack in my lifestyle.


----------



## Kreator

travellor said:


> The take away is
> Once you've done it, you know what works, so any wobbles and you can do it again.
> 
> I view my lifestyle as fluctuating, it's not a purely level weight, bloods, lipids, I just look at the trends now, if the drift is in the wrong direction, I'll make changes I need to.
> I've been accused of yo yo dieting for that,  I had a good lock down Christmas, I did a January catch up.
> I can't see that as bad, so long as it suits me, I like a bit of slack in my lifestyle.


Indeed, so for me, special occasions, birthdays, nights out etc. are still enjoyable, as well as a little indulgence here & there without worrying too much - I did initially but that's eased somewhat these days - If I indudge for a few days, I'll then pull it back a little - so my weight might rise by a Kilo, but then pull it back to where I want it to be - it's not yoyo dieting like you say (and I've seen some of your posts!) it's normal day to day living...

Life's a rollercoaster anyway!


----------



## travellor

Kreator said:


> Indeed, so for me, special occasions, birthdays, nights out etc. are still enjoyable, as well as a little indulgence here & there without worrying too much - I did initially but that's eased somewhat these days - If I indudge for a few days, I'll then pull it back a little - so my weight might rise by a Kilo, but then pull it back to where I want it to be - it's not yoyo dieting like you say (and I've seen some of your posts!) it's normal day to day living...
> 
> Life's a rollercoaster anyway!



Well, I have found rollercoasters are way less painful now I haven't got 5 stones of fat going a different way to the rest of me.......


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## Kreator

Snap!


----------

