# Oh bother this bloomin' basal!



## Northerner

A few weeks ago I thought I'd got my basal cracked - 20 units lantus. Then I started getting lots of low readings, adjusted both bolus and basal, lantus down to 18. Again, thought this had stabilised with good fasting readings in the 4.x - 5.x area. However, a few days ago, my waking sugars were in the 3.x area, so I reduced lantus to 17 units.

But, lo and behold! Yesterday morning I woke to 2.6 and last night I woke up at 2:15 and tested - I was 2.5! I had gone to bed without a snack on 7.7. I had some jelly babies and a cereal bar and woke to 4.4. I'm thinking I might drop down to 15 lantus to see what happens - if I get high readings I guess I can live with that for a day. The slightly odd thing is that I missed lunch yesterday - first meal I've missed since diagnosis! - took a reading at around 3:30 pm and it was 4.9, suggesting that the basal was OK.

Anyone else experience this? I hadn't done anything out of the ordinary over the past few days to make me more sensitive.


----------



## Sugarbum

can I hit you with some Q's?!

when you changed your basal did you alter your ratio?
have you changed your injection site of the lantus? 
are you doing one dose of lantus or spliting and what time do you take it?

so many questions I know, but lantus is a friend of mine, I know him well, and he likes to play up....


----------



## Admin

Sounds nuts - but mine is suddenly going haywire too - I have had to reduce mine just recently - after having to put it up last week! - Don't laugh - but it could be the weather - it is getting warmer - and I know heat affects your insulin absorbtion. When I was travelling - at one point I thought I was going to have to drop my lantus completely! At the mo that is the only thing I can think of - I have been hot at night (need to get summer duvet out!) and have been going low over night despite going to bed at 7's or so. Usually your bs should only reduce by 2 overnight! So same as. At the end of the day I don't try to rationalise it - have been at it so long realsied there is no rationalisation!

Not a lot of help - but you aren't on your own!


----------



## sofaraway

Sugarbum said:


> but lantus is a friend of mine, I know him well, and he likes to play up....



Hehe

How long after your evening meal is your bedtime reading? Is it possible that your n'rapid is still working when you go to bed? So that at 7.7 you are still heading downwards. 

I have found out one of my old diaries and I can see that I was using 22 units for weeks then I woke up 3 days in the 3.x range dropped to 20 units which worked for 4 days then started waking up 3.x again so dropped to 18 units and then stayed on 18units for the remainder of the diary- about 5 pages

I think lowering your basal by 1-2 units each time is a sensible approach as it does seem like a basal issue. Have you tried any formal basal testing during the day? 

I agree with Admin and have suggested it before that the weather and seasons could be having an affect. I've had the opposite effect i am now taking double the amount of basal insulin I was in December, and have recently split the dose, which is working well for me.


----------



## Northerner

Sugarbum said:


> can I hit you with some Q's?!
> 
> when you changed your basal did you alter your ratio?
> have you changed your injection site of the lantus?
> are you doing one dose of lantus or spliting and what time do you take it?
> 
> so many questions I know, but lantus is a friend of mine, I know him well, and he likes to play up....



I have always injected lantus in my tummy, alternating sides. Have thought about splitting the dose as I have long suspected that I'm getting an early peak after injecting. I take it around 10:30 pm which, in answer to nikki's question, is probably only around 3.5 - 4 hours after my evening meal so there is a possibility that the novorapid is still at play - although this is countered by the fact that I think my lantus has been depleted before the full 24 hours are up (have read somewhere that it is effective over between 18-24 hours, rather than actually 24 hours). My bedtime readings are lower than they were as I've got more accurate in my NR calculations, and I have been to bed at levels of 7.x before with no adverse effects. I haven't had a double figure bedtime reading since January. 

I have felt warmer recently, and my mood improves tremendously when the sunshine and longer days appear, so it may be this that is affecting my metabolism in some way. I was wondering, actually, if there is in fact a fairly constant rate at which the liver releases glucose, or if this can vary (maybe also seasonally). Certainly warmer at night - got very hot last night so might switch to 'Spring' duvet from 'Winter' - also, didn't need a hot water bottle last night for the first time in months. Plus, the chilblains on my toes are healing, suggesting that I am warmer generally. It's my first experience of Spring with diabetes, so have no previous knowledge of how it might affect me!


----------



## Admin

FYI - I moved pregnancy news to a different thread - didn't want to detract Northerner!
Admin x


----------



## Northerner

Admin said:


> FYI - I moved pregnancy news to a different thread - didn't want to detract Northerner!
> Admin x



Thank you, people were starting to talk...!


----------



## aymes

sofaraway said:


> I agree with Admin and have suggested it before that the weather and seasons could be having an affect. I've had the opposite effect i am now taking double the amount of basal insulin I was in December, and have recently split the dose, which is working well for me.



Me too, I find changes in the weather have quite an effect on me.


----------



## Sugarbum

Northerner said:


> I haven't had a double figure bedtime reading since January.




......ssssssssssssSSSSSSSShhh!!!!! You're making the rest of us look bad!!!!


----------



## Northerner

Sugarbum said:


> ......ssssssssssssSSSSSSSShhh!!!!! You're making the rest of us look bad!!!!



Gah! Typical, I'm 10.7 tonight!


----------



## Adrienne

Hi Northerner

Just a suggestion but has anyone ever said maybe you should try Lantus in the morning instead of evening, before you try splitting the dose.   Again I speak only from experience with my daughter and also others I know who have done this but have been children.

You are right Lantus lasts between 18 and 22 hours tops.  Levemir even less at about 16 to 20 (complete tops) which is why Levemir generally ends up being split more than Lantus.

The theory of why Lantus is always suggested in the evening is that it was not given to small children to begin with, only teens and adults and of course they can have lie ins in the morning so would miss the injection time.   So when they started young children on it ie my daughter she was injected at teatime.  She was always hypo in the morning or too low so we changed it quite quickly to 8 am.   We found that it worked well for the first 12 hours much better than the 2nd lot of 12 hours.

Might be worth a try but obviously as others say, speak to your team.

Just a thought.


----------



## mikep1979

my lantus is working great now and i aint had a double figure reading at all in weeks!!!!! i dont split dose as i find this has a bad effect on my levels and also i was told if you adjust your lantus it takes 3 days for it to change in your system. got my a1c done the other day and it has been bad for the last 2 (last bad on was 13%) and we couldnt figure out what was causing the high levels i was getting. new a1c is down to 7.2% so im made up!!!!! found out i had become resistant to insulatard and needed to be swapped to lantus as my basal.


----------



## Northerner

mikep1979 said:


> my lantus is working great now and i aint had a double figure reading at all in weeks!!!!! i dont split dose as i find this has a bad effect on my levels and also i was told if you adjust your lantus it takes 3 days for it to change in your system. got my a1c done the other day and it has been bad for the last 2 (last bad on was 13%) and we couldnt figure out what was causing the high levels i was getting. new a1c is down to 7.2% so im made up!!!!! found out i had become resistant to insulatard and needed to be swapped to lantus as my basal.



Excellent Mike - clearly heading in the right direction, and good to hear that they tracked down the cause of those earlier highs. I'd prefer not to start messing about too much with my routine - it's convenient for me as it is and I think it's just a case of getting the best out of it - although Adrienne's suggestion of moving the injection to the morning is something I have been considering. My concern with that would be that I might be 'running on empty' for a few hours before waking if the lantus doesn't last 24 hours. Currently, I have novorapid circulating in the evening, even if the lantus has all gone.

Last night reduced to 16 units and woke this morning at 5.2, so I'm happy with that


----------



## mikep1979

yeah i am well chuffed that they are coming down really well. just hope i stay ok on the lantus now lol.

i got switched to split dose and then morning dose on my insulatard before they swapped me over to lantus and i must say both times it made me feel worse. started lantus on a morning schedule and felt like it wasnt running right, so my dsn swapped it over to night time and it has worked better ever since. looking at the reading you got today northerner it may be you need to reduce it a lil, but like everyone on here has said ask your dsn what they think first.


----------



## Adrienne

Hi Mike

That is a great HbA1c.

Northerner, you are right of course and you could end up running on empty.  With my daughter that worked out ok (ish) as she always dipped early hours anyway and ended up staying down there so she woke up generally under 8.0 (I know that is high ish to wake up on but for a child that's not too bad on injections).    Pumping I like 5.0 and 6.0 on waking.


----------



## Northerner

Still not quite getting it right. After my reduction to 16 lantus I've had readings of 5.2, 4.7 and 3.6 today on waking. Going to try another unit reduction tonight! I must be saving the NHS a fortune with my reduced insulin usage - I'll probably save at least a pint over the next 30 years if I continue like this!


----------



## Sugarbum

Northerner said:


> Still not quite getting it right. After my reduction to 16 lantus I've had readings of 5.2, 4.7 and 3.6 today on waking. Going to try another unit reduction tonight! I must be saving the NHS a fortune with my reduced insulin usage - I'll probably save at least a pint over the next 30 years if I continue like this!




Perhaps theres some kind of exchange negiotion you could enter into? Crack some kind of deal for more test strips?!


----------



## Northerner

Sugarbum said:


> Perhaps theres some kind of exchange negiotion you could enter into? Crack some kind of deal for more test strips?!



Perhaps they could pay for my next pair of running shoes?  I'm now saving them even more, as I have reduced to 15 lantus over the past couple of nights, waking to 5.5 yesterday and 5.1 today...


----------



## Northerner

Northerner said:


> Perhaps they could pay for my next pair of running shoes?  I'm now saving them even more, as I have reduced to 15 lantus over the past couple of nights, waking to 5.5 yesterday and 5.1 today...



...and 4.0 this morning, so going to try 14 units tonight. Seems that the more I reduce my lantus by, the lower my numbers get - something doesn't seem quite right with that!


----------



## aymes

Northerner said:


> ...and 4.0 this morning, so going to try 14 units tonight. Seems that the more I reduce my lantus by, the lower my numbers get - something doesn't seem quite right with that!



Hmmm, have you tried some tests during the night ( pain I know) to get some idea of what is happening during the night? I'm not sure where I'm going with this but it could show if you're steadily dropping or if the lantus is having some sort of peak just before you wake up? What sort of numbers are you going to bed with?


----------



## Northerner

aymes said:


> Hmmm, have you tried some tests during the night ( pain I know) to get some idea of what is happening during the night? I'm not sure where I'm going with this but it could show if you're steadily dropping or if the lantus is having some sort of peak just before you wake up? What sort of numbers are you going to bed with?



I did do a test in the night a few days ago and I was 2.5, which is one of the things that convinced me to lower the lantus. I've been going to bed around 5.5-7.5 over the past few nights, but with a snack of bread and peanut butter. My daytime (pre-meal) readings have also been dropping low, despite being similarly cautious with the novorapid, so I've assumed a reduction in basal is needed too. I'm not overly anxious about things because I do seem to be just about staying 'ahead of the game' and my levels are actually pretty good on the whole, just a little perplexed!


----------



## Northerner

Reduced the lantus to 14 units last night...and woke to 3.9 this morning! At this rate, I'll be cured by the end of the month


----------



## katie

this isnt fair 

Better keep reducing then Northerner


----------



## tracey w

Northerner said:


> Reduced the lantus to 14 units last night...and woke to 3.9 this morning! At this rate, I'll be cured by the end of the month



Aaah thats so funny! If only eh 

Suppose you will just have to keep dropping. my dsn told me that when i started on lantus (couple of weeks ago), i probably woould find i would need to reduce my fast acting? havent needed to, just wondering if you have reduced your fast acting and if so to what effect?? Or have you just been dropping the lantus?


----------



## Northerner

tracey w said:


> Aaah thats so funny! If only eh
> 
> Suppose you will just have to keep dropping. my dsn told me that when i started on lantus (couple of weeks ago), i probably woould find i would need to reduce my fast acting? havent needed to, just wondering if you have reduced your fast acting and if so to what effect?? Or have you just been dropping the lantus?



Hi tracey! No, I've been dropping the novorapid, although not quite so much recently. I've been dropping the lantus because my fasting levels have been too low. So, I was giving the correct bolus for a meal, but once the quick acting had dissipated I was still hypoing. Both my NR and lantus are now around 30% lower than a couple of weeks ago. It's interesting because a few months ago I dropped my lantus by one unit and my fasting levels came up 2-3 mmol. Now I drop by one unit and the levels either stay the same or drop, so it seems to be a progressive change in requirements that I'm just about keeping under control!

Not planning on any further reduction tonight, so will see how things are tomorrow!


----------



## tracey w

good luck, hope it stabalises soon! sometimes we just dont know why things happen and then suddenly all back on track, lets hope so


----------



## Northerner

Reduced the lantus to 12 last night, and woke to 4.6 this morning. It will be interesting to see how things are in a week's time. My total insulin yesterday was 42 units, down from 60 units a couple of weeks ago.


----------



## sofaraway

a rough equation that can be used is that people with type 1 would use 0.5 units per kg of weight.

So if someone weighed 60kg then they would use in region of 30 units a day.

how does that fit with you?


----------



## Northerner

sofaraway said:


> a rough equation that can be used is that people with type 1 would use 0.5 units per kg of weight.
> 
> So if someone weighed 60kg then they would use in region of 30 units a day.
> 
> how does that fit with you?



That's total insulin? Hmmm...rather stands the argument on its head! Before Christmas I weighed 55 kg, but my weight has now increased to 65 kg - yet I'm using nearly a third less insulin! I've been thinking that maybe part of this is down to the fact that I was extremely ill and I've been gradually recovering. Even though I may have felt OK for a couple of months, maybe there have been some unseen little recovery stages going on that I'm unaware of, but that have had some impact on my insulin usage and I'm gradually heading towards that equation.


----------



## Patricia

We just had a meeting with our DSN last week because our son's insulin needs have gone up by 50% since diagnosis 5 months ago. She told me this: at diagnosis, people normally start on .5 units per kg of weight. In some children and in some adolescents in particular, the insulin needs settle to 1.0 units per kg of weight (which is exactly where he is now, amazingly) -- with the proviso that with growth and changes through adolescence, the needs can rise to 1.2 or 1.5 or even, with some girls, to nearly 2 units per kg of weight.

She then said that  insulin requirements tend to settle again after adolescence to about .75 units per kg. By my calculations, you are at about .7 units per kg right now! Don't know if this helps at all, but it may help with reassurance or ball park figures!


----------



## Northerner

Slight blip yesterday as I woke to 6.8 which is unusual for me, but stuck to the 12 units of lantus and woke to 4.6 this morning. Contemplating a reduction to 11 units tonight...


----------



## Northerner

Reduced my lantus to 11 units last night and woke up to...3.3 this morning! Goodness knows what would be happening to me if I was still on 20 lantus!


----------



## sofaraway

not long and you really will be cured! 

I wonder if you can get on a CGMS so you can see whats going on overnight,


----------



## Patricia

Northerner, you are really fighting some battles here -- the unpredictability is so hard and wearing! I feel for you.


----------



## Adrienne

Patricia said:


> Northerner, you are really fighting some battles here -- the unpredictability is so hard and wearing! I feel for you.



Hi Northerner

Have you thought about changing to give it in the morning for a while and see what effect that has?  You could always change it back if you didn't think it worked.


----------



## Northerner

Patricia said:


> Northerner, you are really fighting some battles here -- the unpredictability is so hard and wearing! I feel for you.



Actually, it isn't that unpredictable - if I reduce my lantus I can predict that my requirements for lantus will reduce! lol!

I reduced to 10 units last night and woke this morning to...3.9! I'm wondering whether to reduce to 9 tonight, because if my requirements are still dropping 10 might give me lows during the night.

Adrienne - I've thought about giving the lantus in the morning, but it is more convenient at night. I don't appear to be having night hypos at the moment, although I undoubtedly would be if I wasn't keeping on top of the dose reductions. I wouldn't know how to change to a morning dose - do you just not take it the night before and risk going high that night?


----------



## Admin

Like anything I don't think you can use the insulin/weight ratio for everyone and it should only be used as a guide. My insulin requirements are way under this due to my healthy diet and small portions. I do not follow DUK advise on high carb/starchy meals - hence their insulin ratios are waaaay out for me! 

Northerner - I know you are very athletic and full of muscle which use up more energy, so again you will be very different.

Out of interest Northerner - you are hypoing over night - but what are your levels like during the day? Are you having to eat more? Are they going low inbetween meals?


----------



## aymes

Northerner said:


> I wouldn't know how to change to a morning dose - do you just not take it the night before and risk going high that night?



That's how I was advised to go about it, and just be prepared for a correction in the morning. Or I guess you could split it first and then move it entirely to lessen the 'jump'...?


----------



## Patricia

Maybe you are in some kind of weird, nether-region self-fulfilling prophecy place, where when you move toward something, it moves further away and so on, a big cycle... Nah.

Might it be worth reducing more than one unit at a time? We had the opposite with E, and increased by 20% each time rather than the recommended 10%, because the situation was so clearly extreme. My understanding is that for levermir anyway, a 1 unit increases more or less should equal a 1mmol adjustment... This has turned out to kinda be the case once the change beds in...


----------



## Northerner

Patricia said:


> Maybe you are in some kind of weird, nether-region self-fulfilling prophecy place, where when you move toward something, it moves further away and so on, a big cycle... Nah....



Exactly like the Greek myth of Tantalus! Which spookily contains the word 'lantus'!


----------



## Northerner

Admin said:


> Northerner - I know you are very athletic and full of muscle which use up more energy, so again you will be very different.



lol! I wouldn't go quite that far! 



Admin said:


> Out of interest Northerner - you are hypoing over night - but what are your levels like during the day? Are you having to eat more? Are they going low inbetween meals?



My 'fasting' levels through the day (i.e. pre-meal) have been generally OK, with a few lows, which sort of reinforces the theory that the lantus is losing its potency during the day. I'm not adjusting the novorapid to the same extent (about 25% reduction in NR, now 50% reduction in lantus).


----------



## Patricia

Yikes! Whoa Nellie!


----------



## Patricia

Patricia said:


> Yikes! Whoa Nellie!





Northerner said:


> Exactly like the Greek myth of Tantalus! Which spookily contains the word 'lantus'!



Meant my whoa nellie to apply to this, not to the lowering of dosages...shall go back to work now...


----------



## Northerner

I stuck with 10 units of (Tanta-)lantus last night, and woke to 6.1 this morning. Things might be becoming slightly more complicated as I believe I may be starting with a cold...


----------



## Vanessa

Hope the suspect cold doesn't either materialise or turn into man flu!


----------



## Patricia

Yes, it's just the way, isn't it...Getting somewhere and then: try this on for size. 

Hope you improve through the day rather than de-prove.


----------



## Northerner

Well, thankfully the cold didn't materialise! I've stuck with 10 lantus and am waking up to around 6.1, which is higher than I was used to but I do think that it means I am not dropping low so frequently during the night. My daytime pre-meal levels are also fine. Doesn't look like the lantus needs dropping any further though, so perhaps I'm not on my way to being cured...


----------



## aymes

Northerner said:


> Well, thankfully the cold didn't materialise! I've stuck with 10 lantus and am waking up to around 6.1, which is higher than I was used to but I do think that it means I am not dropping low so frequently during the night. My daytime pre-meal levels are also fine. Doesn't look like the lantus needs dropping any further though, so perhaps I'm not on my way to being cured...



Glad you seem to have it sorted, 6.1 is a perfectly acceptable level to be waking up to, what sort of number did you go to bed with?


----------



## Northerner

aymes said:


> Glad you seem to have it sorted, 6.1 is a perfectly acceptable level to be waking up to, what sort of number did you go to bed with?



It was 5.3. I'm usually around that these days - I used to be around the 9's and 10's, so I guess my novorapid calculations are getting better! I had a snack (bread and peanut butter) and tested myself about an hour after as I felt low and I was 5.1! Decided it was just one of those things so didn't eat any more.


----------



## bev

Northerner,
Are you stealing Alex's insulin? If you could mix your levels with Alex's perhaps you could get the 'perfect diabetic range'! Bev


----------



## mikep1979

lol i think northerner is just trying to cure himself and not share his findings with the rest of us bev


----------



## Northerner

bev said:


> Northerner,
> Are you stealing Alex's insulin? If you could mix your levels with Alex's perhaps you could get the 'perfect diabetic range'! Bev



Yes, I've created a trans-dimensional vortex that connects the tip of Alex's pen needle to the region surrounding my pancreas. The quantum flux combined with a tachyon-calibrated delay ensures that I get the insulin just when I need it - simple, really!

Apologies to Alex, I should have let him know about it, but was worried about the Schroedinger effect - if he knew it was happening, it might not happen...


----------



## bev

As i always say to my kids - its POLITE to ask first! How very rude of you Northerner - wait til Alex gets home from school - he will not be happy i can tell you! And if i understood what any of the previous message meant - i would reply in like form! But i dont - so i wont! Bev


----------



## Northerner

bev said:


> As i always say to my kids - its POLITE to ask first! How very rude of you Northerner - wait til Alex gets home from school - he will not be happy i can tell you! And if i understood what any of the previous message meant - i would reply in like form! But i dont - so i wont! Bev



Serves you right for being rude about the luscious Kate!


----------



## bev

Do you mean 'ole big ears? Bev


----------



## Northerner

bev said:


> Do you mean 'ole big ears? Bev



Why, you grrrr!!!!


----------



## Northerner

Things are slightly awry - yesterday I had a 7.3 before lunch, which is almost unheard of for me (usually 4.x), then had hypo mid-afternoon. I woke to 5.6 this morning, but again was higher than normal at lunch (7.6). I'm blaming the fact that I had toasted teacakes for breakfast rather than my usual cereal or porridge - surprised at the difference though, they were only small teacakes and the novorapid should have amply covered them. I think they may have worked as very slow release, as I measured 2 hours after breakfast and was 7.1 which then rose a bit before lunch. But I'm not sure if it's because my basal is now too low!


----------



## Tezzz

bev said:


> As i always say to my kids - its POLITE to ask first! How very rude of you Northerner - wait til Alex gets home from school - he will not be happy i can tell you! And if i understood what any of the previous message meant - i would reply in like form! But i dont - so i wont! Bev



Bev, If in doubt ask a teenager...


----------



## tracey w

Northerner said:


> Things are slightly awry - yesterday I had a 7.3 before lunch, which is almost unheard of for me (usually 4.x), then had hypo mid-afternoon. I woke to 5.6 this morning, but again was higher than normal at lunch (7.6). I'm blaming the fact that I had toasted teacakes for breakfast rather than my usual cereal or porridge - surprised at the difference though, they were only small teacakes and the novorapid should have amply covered them. I think they may have worked as very slow release, as I measured 2 hours after breakfast and was 7.1 which then rose a bit before lunch. But I'm not sure if it's because my basal is now too low!



apparantly tea cakes can be very low gi. The fruit in them slows the absorbtion of the carbs. I tend to have them sometimes at supper.

how are your levels now?


----------



## Northerner

tracey w said:


> apparantly tea cakes can be very low gi. The fruit in them slows the absorbtion of the carbs. I tend to have them sometimes at supper.
> 
> how are your levels now?



Perhaps I ought to replace my bedtime snack with them! They really do seem to be very slow release! I'm still a bit up and down - have adjusted the lantus back up to 11 but had a couple of hypos yesterday (2.6 and a 3.4) and was 3.9 on waking this morning, so might drop back to 10 tonight. My novorapid has stabilised, so I'm still a little confused about what's going on...


----------



## tracey w

Northerner said:


> Perhaps I ought to replace my bedtime snack with them! They really do seem to be very slow release! I'm still a bit up and down - have adjusted the lantus back up to 11 but had a couple of hypos yesterday (2.6 and a 3.4) and was 3.9 on waking this morning, so might drop back to 10 tonight. My novorapid has stabilised, so I'm still a little confused about what's going on...



poor you, can be so frustrating. I think your right to drop your basal again though


----------



## chezpez

I find with my morning sugars using lantus they can be between 4-6 before i get out of bed, then an hour later after getting dressed and making breakfast etc.. and i check again they sometimes can shoot up to 9 on its own, very annoying indeed!! so have to have breakfast and novoraid as soon as i get up even if i dont want food just to keep it under control.. does anyone else has this problem please x


----------



## tracey w

chezpez said:


> I find with my morning sugars using lantus they can be between 4-6 before i get out of bed, then an hour later after getting dressed and making breakfast etc.. and i check again they sometimes can shoot up to 9 on its own, very annoying indeed!! so have to have breakfast and novoraid as soon as i get up even if i dont want food just to keep it under control.. does anyone else has this problem please x



Are your bg levels ok for the rest of the time? If they are you could be experiencing the dawn phenomena, where the liver dumps glucose into the blood in preperation for the day. some people get this and some dont. My bg really peaks sometimes around breakfast time. also some people can be more resistant to insulin at this time and generally need more insulin with breakfast than other meals. Hope this helps,


----------



## Steff

since staring on my metformin my levels are higher then before i started on them , from monday im going to take 2 im not happy with my levels so i will bring it up with the docs on tuesday , if im between 13 and 16 i dont bat an eyelid these days cause its so regular , really p***ing me off cause my mood swings are terrible at the minute


----------



## tracey w

steff09 said:


> since staring on my metformin my levels are higher then before i started on them , from monday im going to take 2 im not happy with my levels so i will bring it up with the docs on tuesday , if im between 13 and 16 i dont bat an eyelid these days cause its so regular , really p***ing me off cause my mood swings are terrible at the minute



Stef, you look so different!

Hope you get your levels lower soon, you must be feeling yukky being that high all the time.


----------



## tracey w

ok stef, better test my blood, am i seeing things?


----------



## Steff

what do you mean?


----------



## tracey w

steff09 said:


> what do you mean?



seriously? you takin the mic out of me?


----------



## chezpez

tracey w said:


> Are your bg levels ok for the rest of the time? If they are you could be experiencing the dawn phenomena, where the liver dumps glucose into the blood in preperation for the day. some people get this and some dont. My bg really peaks sometimes around breakfast time. also some people can be more resistant to insulin at this time and generally need more insulin with breakfast than other meals. Hope this helps,



THANKS TRACEY.. MY LEVELS ARE IMPROVING HB 7.5% - ITS JUST SO ANNOYING HAVING TO HAVE BREAKFAST FIRST THING BEFORE DOING ANYTHING!


----------



## Steff

tracey w said:


> seriously? you takin the mic out of me?



think i will go and test my blood, from talking about metformin to taking the mick , im totally lost here


----------



## Steff

steff09 said:


> think i will go and test my blood, from talking about metformin to taking the mick , im totally lost here




sorry if i caused confusion r.e my avatar was just having a play around with my pics while i was bored


----------



## Northerner

Well, I seem to have stabilised on my insulin, so no longer dreaming of being cured! I've been on 10 lantus for a while now (was originally 20) and am waking to around 5.5, which is fine. I'm not aware of any night hypos, and on the few occasions when I've woken up in the middle of the night and tested I've been in range. Hurrah! Wonder how long it will last...?


----------



## Steff

pleased to hear its all stabilised northener long may it continue


----------



## Vanessa

Well done Northerner - keeping my fingers crossed that the success will last for a good while


----------



## runner

Northerner said:


> Well, I seem to have stabilised on my insulin, so no longer dreaming of being cured! I've been on 10 lantus for a while now (was originally 20) and am waking to around 5.5, which is fine. I'm not aware of any night hypos, and on the few occasions when I've woken up in the middle of the night and tested I've been in range. Hurrah! Wonder how long it will last...?



Brilliant!  didn't I read somewhere that you have been increasing your running after being ill, for a while?  This could affect your use of insulin quite dramatically (or was it you told me this! )  I adjust my lantus (only down by one unit) on training days.  Am gradually increasing it now tho' as morning readings are too high.  I take my fix in the morning and have been fascinated to read this thread and the info about the liver etc. - thanks Tracey.

I know I've mentioned the BDEC site before, but it does give you a fomula, based on your previous reading, of how much insulin (fast acting) you need re glucose reading levels.  here it is again:  http://www.bdec-e-learning.com/  However, I would personally check with DSN before making any drastic changes.


----------



## Northerner

Vanessa said:


> Well done Northerner - keeping my fingers crossed that the success will last for a good while



Hmmm...looks like the cure might be back on! My last 5 readings, starting at pre-breakfast yesterday have been 3.8, 3.5, 3.4, 4.3, 4.1. No hypo symptoms at those levels - I usually have to dip below 3.0 before I start to feel it. Might try dropping the lantus down another unit to 9 - find it hard to believe I was on 20 for so long! 

Watch this space...!


----------



## runner

Northerner said:


> Hmmm...looks like the cure might be back on! My last 5 readings, starting at pre-breakfast yesterday have been 3.8, 3.5, 3.4, 4.3, 4.1. No hypo symptoms at those levels - I usually have to dip below 3.0 before I start to feel it. Might try dropping the lantus down another unit to 9 - find it hard to believe I was on 20 for so long!
> 
> Watch this space...!



Phew!  Your body is playing tricks!  Hope you get it stabilised soon. I start feeling wobbly, somtimes at 5, and ussually by the time BS had dropped to 4.   Do be careful if your warning signs start so low


----------



## Northerner

runner said:


> Phew!  Your body is playing tricks!  Hope you get it stabilised soon. I start feeling wobbly, somtimes at 5, and ussually by the time BS had dropped to 4.   Do be careful if your warning signs start so low



Thanks runner. I've rarely had warning signs early, except maybe the first month or so after diagnosis, and probably then because my sugars had been much higher for a while before diagnosis. I still get good signs below or around 3 though! Whilst my requirements have decreased a lot, I think I've been very lucky overall with my control - just managing to keep ahead of the possible drastic lows and overall with good numbers. I'd absolutely hate it if it was the other way round and I was struggling to keep the numbers from going too high, as many here unfortunately have to.


----------



## runner

Northerner said:


> Thanks runner. I've rarely had warning signs early, except maybe the first month or so after diagnosis, and probably then because my sugars had been much higher for a while before diagnosis. I still get good signs below or around 3 though! Whilst my requirements have decreased a lot, I think I've been very lucky overall with my control - just managing to keep ahead of the possible drastic lows and overall with good numbers. I'd absolutely hate it if it was the other way round and I was struggling to keep the numbers from going too high, as many here unfortunately have to.



Yes, you must have very good control as a rule.  I have patches where it all seems to be going well, then I might get quite a high or low, but probably due to my lack of self-control on occassion, accompanied with extra good management (excercise etc.) a bit Jekyl and Hyde!  (literally!)

 How have the numbers been today?


----------



## Northerner

runner said:


> Yes, you must have very good control as a rule.  I have patches where it all seems to be going well, then I might get quite a high or low, but probably due to my lack of self-control on occassion, accompanied with extra good management (excercise etc.) a bit Jekyl and Hyde!  (literally!)
> 
> How have the numbers been today?



Had a 5.3 before lunch, then a 3.9 before evening meal. Thought the lunchtime one would be lower and the teatime one higher from the adjustments I made with my novorapid today! (thought I might have given too much with breakfast and too little for lunch!) Still, stops me from getting bored!


----------



## runner

Northerner said:


> Had a 5.3 before lunch, then a 3.9 before evening meal. Thought the lunchtime one would be lower and the teatime one higher from the adjustments I made with my novorapid today! (thought I might have given too much with breakfast and too little for lunch!) Still, stops me from getting bored!



 Wonder if it will ever be straightforward!  Mine have been around 6 and 7 before meals today.  Are you gonna check it out with anybody - DSN?


----------



## Northerner

runner said:


> Wonder if it will ever be straightforward!  Mine have been around 6 and 7 before meals today.  Are you gonna check it out with anybody - DSN?



Yes I really ought to have a word with the DSN - trouble is, I'm the world's worst procrastinator (I even bought a book about procrastination last November and keep putting off reading it!) If things were fluctuating wildly then I'd probably act sooner, but despite my whingeing things are pretty good - just unexpected. Each time I reduce my insulin I expect my levels to shoot up and they don't, so I'm just about one step ahead most of the time!

Last night was a good example. I deliberately gave myself less novorapid with my evening meal than I had calculated, but when I measured my level 2.5 hours after the meal I was 3.6! So, if I had given my normal novorapid I would have dipped very low. I had something extra to eat and was 7.2 going to bed. I decided that I would try reducing the lantus by another unit and woke to 6.7 this morning, so that obviously made a difference. I'm going to stick to 9 for a couple of days and see how things go - I'm expecting most of my readings to be around 6.x, but we'll see!


----------



## runner

Northerner said:


> Yes I really ought to have a word with the DSN - trouble is, I'm the world's worst procrastinator (I even bought a book about procrastination last November and keep putting off reading it!) If things were fluctuating wildly then I'd probably act sooner, but despite my whingeing things are pretty good - just unexpected. Each time I reduce my insulin I expect my levels to shoot up and they don't, so I'm just about one step ahead most of the time!
> 
> Last night was a good example. I deliberately gave myself less novorapid with my evening meal than I had calculated, but when I measured my level 2.5 hours after the meal I was 3.6! So, if I had given my normal novorapid I would have dipped very low. I had something extra to eat and was 7.2 going to bed. I decided that I would try reducing the lantus by another unit and woke to 6.7 this morning, so that obviously made a difference. I'm going to stick to 9 for a couple of days and see how things go - I'm expecting most of my readings to be around 6.x, but we'll see!



Ha ha!

Sounds like it might be stabilising a bit.  Mine seems to be going the other was - increasing Lantus and still getting the occassional high morning reading. However, I have a big backlog of work, (procrastinating myself answering e-mails!) a cold, and have not been excercising, and have had the occassional comfort food, so there's my explanantion!  Back to normal next week, I hope!


----------



## Northerner

Stuck with the 9 lantus and went to bed on 7.0 last night, woke to 4.9, so pleased with that.


----------



## bev

Northerner,
I know my experience is very limited compared to everyones on here - but - do you think your ratio's could be a bit out? If your lantus is settled and giving you good waking levels - the only other variable is novorapid/ratio's or exercise? Just a thought! 

If you are already reducing the amount you should be having and still having a hypo then this would seem to be the answer. The same is happening to Alex - he has had loads of hypo's since putting him on 1 ; 10 ratios - and my feeling is that we need to change him to 1 ; 12 - but i have asked his DN and she wants to keep him as he is to see if there is a pattern. Bev


----------



## runner

Northerner said:


> Stuck with the 9 lantus and went to bed on 7.0 last night, woke to 4.9, so pleased with that.



Phew!  Sounds good Northerner, long may it last!


----------



## Northerner

bev said:


> Northerner,
> I know my experience is very limited compared to everyones on here - but - do you think your ratio's could be a bit out? If your lantus is settled and giving you good waking levels - the only other variable is novorapid/ratio's or exercise? Just a thought!
> 
> If you are already reducing the amount you should be having and still having a hypo then this would seem to be the answer. The same is happening to Alex - he has had loads of hypo's since putting him on 1 ; 10 ratios - and my feeling is that we need to change him to 1 ; 12 - but i have asked his DN and she wants to keep him as he is to see if there is a pattern. Bev



To be honest bev, your experience is probably greater than mine, because you are having to approach the problem quite scientifically every time. I tend to eat similar meals and so I don't go into the wheres and whyfores each time I eat. So, rather than knowing a precise ratio and then counting the carbs accurately, I have a gut feel for the amount of insulin necessary. Don't get me wrong - I did work hard originally at calculating things, and still do with new foods. But with everyday food I now have a sort of 'base' and adjust the insulin according to my latest reactions to a meal. My problems seem to have been underestimating how much to reduce the NR by, as it keeps surprising me by requiring less!

So, my novorapid used to be 8 for porridge, honey and fruit juice for breakfast - it's now 5, and so on. What has been happening is that I've been lowering both NR and lantus, but fasting levels have still been dropping. In effect, I have been changing my ratios, but haven't sat down to think what they are! Yesterday, on 9 lantus, I woke to 6.7, today it was 4.9, tomorrow it might be 3.9 then I'll drop it again!


----------



## Northerner

Well, I seem to have stabilised for now on 9 lantus. Most of my waking readings have been around 5.x - 6.x, which is pretty much the best I could hope for, especially as I've not been aware of dropping low in the night for quite a while. I'm also trying to convince myself that 5's and 6's are perfectly fine, and probably preferable to 4's with the risk of hypos that that brings. I know that might sound odd, but I'm still in my first year of this, and my mind automatically thinks that the lower my numbers are, the better - whilst at the same time I know that the aim is to stay within your range, not work your way towards zero!


----------



## sasha1

Hi Northerner,
Glad you have seemed to stabilised your Lantus. Nathan has been having similar problems to you as well at the moment. Your right 5 n 6's are fine, even 7's are. Its hard to achieve what the hospital set your ranges at, with Nathan they recommend 4 n 6, which for a 14 year old in my opinion is too low and have said so, so with him we try 6 n 9's.
Can I ask though are you still injecting your Lantus into your stomach?.
Nathan is just over 2yrs and we both still learning..god it drives you mad at times..haha. His last HB was 6.8

Heidi


----------



## Northerner

sasha1 said:


> Hi Northerner,
> Glad you have seemed to stabilised your Lantus. Nathan has been having similar problems to you as well at the moment. Your right 5 n 6's are fine, even 7's are. Its hard to achieve what the hospital set your ranges at, with Nathan they recommend 4 n 6, which for a 14 year old in my opinion is too low and have said so, so with him we try 6 n 9's.
> Can I ask though are you still injecting your Lantus into your stomach?.
> Nathan is just over 2yrs and we both still learning..god it drives you mad at times..haha. His last HB was 6.8
> 
> Heidi



Yes, still inject into stomach - I don't think that's a problem for me, especially now I've regained a bit of weight! Actually, I was thinking recently that maybe all this reduction in insulin I've had over the past 6 weeks has been a lot to do with my body finally getting back to 'normal', and maybe I'm now on the insulin that my healthy body needs. For example, my weight is now 147 pounds and stable, up from 116 pound at diagnosis - I'm now at pretty much my ideal weight for my build. My resting heart rate is now about 50 bpm, as it was when healthy before,  but was 90 bpm at diagnosis, with abnormal ecg and inflammation. My running pace is well on the way to being what it once was. 

So all these things suggest to me that I've finally recovered from from the trauma I've been put through, not only with the DKA etc., but also likely declining insulin production over the previous couple of years when my weight started falling 1-3 pounds a month. 

Sorry to ramble on, but it helps sometimes to write it down!


----------



## runner

I thought anywhere between 4 and 7 was good and my DSN suggested I gradually increase Lantus until waking reading is below 8 (I injuect in the morning.

I read somewhere that Lantus is best injected in the thigh- something to do with absorption, and Humalog (my fast-acting insulin) in the stomack, fatty bits of your hip.  May be different for children/young people tho?.


----------



## Northerner

runner said:


> I thought anywhere between 4 and 7 was good and my DSN suggested I gradually increase Lantus until waking reading is below 8 (I injuect in the morning.
> 
> I read somewhere that Lantus is best injected in the thigh- something to do with absorption, and Humalog (my fast-acting insulin) in the stomack, fatty bits of your hip.  May be different for children/young people tho?.



I can't inject in my thighs as it hurts and bruises - also, I would be concerned about too rapid absorption as they say you shouldn't inject in your legs if going running. I rotate my sites, so sometimes my novorapid goes in my stomach and sometimes in my hips - I'll give each area a rest for a while to avoid that lipotrophy(?) business! As the lantus is once a day, and (currently) only 9 units, I always use my stomach for it - but always hav a little feel at the site first to make sure there are no little lumps developing.


----------



## sasha1

Hi hun,
 You not rambling on at all, its god to get things off your chest, and yes it does help to write things down.
 It does take along time for your body to settle down from the trauma. DKA is horrendous on its own without having to absorb everything else.. Nathan also lost a massive amount of weight,and now looking much better, although he on the heavier side, which is a bit of an issue at the mo, but he a stocky lad ideal for rugby..but lost interest a bit, hopefully he will take it up again.
I'm really glad you feeling much better.
Heidi


----------



## runner

sasha1 said:


> Hi hun,
> You not rambling on at all, its god to get things off your chest, and yes it does help to write things down.
> It does take along time for your body to settle down from the trauma. DKA is horrendous on its own without having to absorb everything else.. Nathan also lost a massive amount of weight,and now looking much better, although he on the heavier side, which is a bit of an issue at the mo, but he a stocky lad ideal for rugby..but lost interest a bit, hopefully he will take it up again.
> I'm really glad you feeling much better.
> Heidi



Hope he does regain his interest.  rotten thing for young people to have to get to grips with - must be difficult for you too.  Just been chatting to son's friend (17) recently diagnosed with type 1, comparing notes, treatment and DSNs.  He has lost a lot of weight too and not big to begin with.  Scuppered his plans to work offshore, temporarily I hope.


----------



## sasha1

runner said:


> Hope he does regain his interest.  rotten thing for young people to have to get to grips with - must be difficult for you too.  Just been chatting to son's friend (17) recently diagnosed with type 1, comparing notes, treatment and DSNs.  He has lost a lot of weight too and not big to begin with.  Scuppered his plans to work offshore, temporarily I hope.



Hi Runner,
I agree its a rotten thing to have to get to grips with especially when young and you want to be the same as everyone else, I get told quite often its all my fault, but I understand he has to take his anger out on someone and that happens to be me. When Nathan calms down we have a good talk..I dont get into arguements with him about it..cause at 14 its an ideal weapon..but I explain to him that while he has this illness for life there are much worse things he could have, and may children would swap there's for his.
How do you cope and manage your diabetes?
17 a terrible age to get it..he will soon feel much better though, and all being well will be able to work offshore..got my fingers crossed

Heidi


----------



## Northerner

sasha1 said:


> Hi hun,
> You not rambling on at all, its god to get things off your chest, and yes it does help to write things down.
> It does take along time for your body to settle down from the trauma. DKA is horrendous on its own without having to absorb everything else.. Nathan also lost a massive amount of weight,and now looking much better, although he on the heavier side, which is a bit of an issue at the mo, but he a stocky lad ideal for rugby..but lost interest a bit, hopefully he will take it up again.
> I'm really glad you feeling much better.
> Heidi



The carpet was pulled right from under me, as I was due to run a marathon the week I was diagnosed. I couldn't wait to get back to it, but the doctors wouldn't even let me walk too quickly for nearly two months afterwards - it drove me mad! Hope Nathan gets his interest back in sports, it will stand him in good stead as he gets older - I'm convinced that my years of running have helped me to get good good control since diagnosis - I 'know' my body very well. 

Apart from last night, when I was injecting my lantus! I made a right pig's ear of it - quite a bit of blood and an instant lump! I was worried then that I might have 'lost' some of the dose with the blood, and also that it would get into my bloodstream and dissipate too quickly. However, I woke to a level of 4.7 this morning, which is pretty darned perfect so I think I'll be OK.


----------



## sasha1

Hi Northener,
 I admire anyone who runs marathons, not surprised you felt the rug pulled from under you, when diagnosed.
 Agree with you that been so focused and healthy, stands you in good stead for overall control of diabetes.
 I hope Nathan gets his interest back in sport again, cause it will do him the world of good and boost his confidence. 
 Hey thats an excellent morning reading
 Nathan unfortunately had 24hrs of readings all over the place, up at 14.3 at dinnertime, and bad tempered with him, he usually 5-6,no ketones though, and ate usuall food.
 Are you now prepared for your next marathon?


 Heidi


----------



## Northerner

I haven't been able to run a full marathon since my femur broke in Stockholm in 2004, although I have run some half marathons and Great South Run a couple of times. I actually ran the Hague half in March last year (pre-diagnosis) It was my slowest ever, and I subsequently found out why!  That was supposed to be my preparation for my return to run the Stockholm Marathon and put my demons to rest about breaking the leg...then I was due to do the Budapest Half in September, but hadn't got back running by then so had to miss that too. Just about managed to get round the GSR in October last year and slowly getting back to my old fitness - now complicated by diabetes!


----------



## runner

Northerner said:


> I haven't been able to run a full marathon since my femur broke in Stockholm in 2004... and slowly getting back to my old fitness - now complicated by diabetes!



Ouch!  Sounds like you're doing really well, and great morning reading


----------



## runner

sasha1 said:


> Hi Runner,
> I agree its a rotten thing to have to get to grips with especially when young and you want to be the same as everyone else, I get told quite often its all my fault, but I understand he has to take his anger out on someone and that happens to be me. When Nathan calms down we have a good talk..I dont get into arguements with him about it..cause at 14 its an ideal weapon..but I explain to him that while he has this illness for life there are much worse things he could have, and may children would swap there's for his.
> How do you cope and manage your diabetes?
> 17 a terrible age to get it..he will soon feel much better though, and all being well will be able to work offshore..got my fingers crossed
> 
> Heidi



You sound like a very understanding and tolerant Mum.  It may well be his hormones affecting blood sugar (positively still raging at 14) - or he's sneaked in a choccy bar or something?

I am on a basal bolus regime - 1 long acting jab in the mornings, and fast-acting with meals or whenever I need them.  Only been diagnosed 2 years and still learning.  Management goes up and down and is directly related to pressure of work too - my ability to be self - disciplined.   I do notice illness and stress affects my readings too - something also which might be affecting your son?  I stared running last year, then had a break then stated again early this year, and still going, all be it very slow progress!

Hope all goes well with your son's treatment and things settle down.  I know there are magazines and site for teens on Diabetes UK, but not much good if he's not accepting it all and blaming you, but maybe something to bear in mind...


----------



## Patricia

Hi all

Northerner, just to say that E has quite often had instant lumps on his leg -- rather grosses him out...Something to do with leanness, I wonder?

Anyway. Pitching in here: numbers everywhere last 72 hours, once again. A cold, but also just something seems out... Growth clearly an issue. On something like 1.2 units per kg weight and rising....

Sigh. We were lucky that E never got to DKA point. Caught very early. Sounds dreadful, really awful.

Well done for keeping after all this Northerner -- you always seem so cheerful. But it must be hard.


----------



## sasha1

runner said:


> You sound like a very understanding and tolerant Mum.  It may well be his hormones affecting blood sugar (positively still raging at 14) - or he's sneaked in a choccy bar or something?
> 
> I am on a basal bolus regime - 1 long acting jab in the mornings, and fast-acting with meals or whenever I need them.  Only been diagnosed 2 years and still learning.  Management goes up and down and is directly related to pressure of work too - my ability to be self - disciplined.   I do notice illness and stress affects my readings too - something also which might be affecting your son?  I stared running last year, then had a break then stated again early this year, and still going, all be it very slow progress!
> 
> Hope all goes well with your son's treatment and things settle down.  I know there are magazines and site for teens on Diabetes UK, but not much good if he's not accepting it all and blaming you, but maybe something to bear in mind...


Hi Runner,
Aye poss sneaked something, although he very open about things like that, i,ve asked him 2 be, and to his credit 99% of the time he does, all i ask is he honest as its vitally important, at end of the day he would only be lying to his self.
I've mentioned to him about the site for teenager, and he gets a couple of really good magazines from DUK. 
Stress deffo affects his blood sugar. As with most diabetics, it's the increase in adrenaline, in turn cortisol, which then increases the output of glucose from the liver.. The fight or Flight legacy.
Good on you for starting the running again, it will help your body cope in stressful situations, any progess slow or not is an acheviement .. I couldnt run for a bus..haha..
Heidi


----------



## runner

sasha1 said:


> Hi Runner,
> Aye poss sneaked something, although he very open about things like that, i,ve asked him 2 be, and to his credit 99% of the time he does, all i ask is he honest as its vitally important, at end of the day he would only be lying to his self.
> I've mentioned to him about the site for teenager, and he gets a couple of really good magazines from DUK.
> Stress deffo affects his blood sugar. As with most diabetics, it's the increase in adrenaline, in turn cortisol, which then increases the output of glucose from the liver.. The fight or Flight legacy.
> Good on you for starting the running again, it will help your body cope in stressful situations, any progess slow or not is an acheviement .. I couldnt run for a bus..haha..
> Heidi



Sounds like you have a nice open relationship with him.  I think that's the difference between our genenration and our parent's.  Sometimes, my sons and daughter tell me too much! LOL

Yep, I'm a strong believer in long-term or extreme stress being a trigger for diabetes.  I certainly think it contributed to mine.  That's not to say that everyone developing diabetes has suffered from this, just that it can be a significant factor.  The medical profession seem to have mixed views about this, but are coming round to the idea.


----------



## sasha1

runner said:


> Sounds like you have a nice open relationship with him.  I think that's the difference between our genenration and our parent's.  Sometimes, my sons and daughter tell me too much! LOL
> 
> Yep, I'm a strong believer in long-term or extreme stress being a trigger for diabetes.  I certainly think it contributed to mine.  That's not to say that everyone developing diabetes has suffered from this, just that it can be a significant factor.  The medical profession seem to have mixed views about this, but are coming round to the idea.


Open relationships with children are a must,my view is i would rather he be able to talk to me about anything, not be embarrassed, than listen or ask someone who has'nt a clue,and get totally the wrong info. He been brought up to have an opinion and that counts whether your 10 or 110. I am sure in the next few years he'll be telling me things i dont want to know.. fore warned is fore armed suppose..LOL

Stress certainly brought the onset of nathan's diabetes on quicker, and i would argue with any medical profession that it did'nt. There is a some reason why there is a sudden surge in both types of diabetes, whether it be genetic, environmental, virus or other. I have an environmental theory, but that is only my opinion. Shame parliament can't channel there expenses bill to research..haha..its a total disgrace..thats my rant over..Happy days


----------



## runner

sasha1 said:


> Open relationships with children are a must,my view is i would rather he be able to talk to me about anything, not be embarrassed, than listen or ask someone who has'nt a clue,and get totally the wrong info. Couldn't agree more. He been brought up to have an opinion and that counts whether your 10 or 110. Absolutely. Shame  young people don't seem to be treated with much trust and respect these days...  I am sure in the next few years he'll be telling me things i dont want to know.. fore warned is fore armed suppose..LOL
> 
> Stress certainly brought the onset of nathan's diabetes on quicker, and i would argue with any medical profession that it did'nt. There is a some reason why there is a sudden surge in both types of diabetes, whether it be genetic, environmental, virus or other. I have an environmental theory, but that is only my opinion. Shame parliament can't channel there expenses bill to research..haha..its a total disgrace..thats my rant over..Happy days


  Environmental theory - there does seem to be higher rates in different areas of the county - where I live being one of them apparently.


----------



## sasha1

runner said:


> Environmental theory - there does seem to be higher rates in different areas of the county - where I live being one of them apparently.


Just out of interest. is there a nuclear reprocessing plant or power station in your area?


----------



## insulinaddict09

runner said:


> Environmental theory - there does seem to be higher rates in different areas of the county - where I live being one of them apparently.



hey thats interesting.. i didnt know that 

i dont really see that theory working for me though as all my family are type 1 and we are living all over the world...

p.s. what part of east anglia are you from?  i lived in Duxford Cambridge for a while.. its lovely down there.


----------



## Northerner

runner said:


> ...Yep, I'm a strong believer in long-term or extreme stress being a trigger for diabetes.  I certainly think it contributed to mine.  That's not to say that everyone developing diabetes has suffered from this, just that it can be a significant factor.  The medical profession seem to have mixed views about this, but are coming round to the idea.



I'm pretty sure it played a part in mine. A couple of years ago I was in a very stressful situation for a protracted period, and in the end ended up leaving my job. After that time I started gradually losing weight for no apparent reason - a couple of pounds or so a month, eventually dropping 2 stone, until I fell ill with a virus that triggered the final decline of my beta cells,DKA and a further 17 pound loss in 3 days. Given that I've always been a fairly skinny person, all this was a very significant weight loss. Going back to the running, the DSN suggested that this had helped me make best use of a declining insulin supply so my onset was very gradual and without major symptoms - until the end, of course!


----------



## runner

sasha1 said:


> Just out of interest. is there a nuclear reprocessing plant or power station in your area?



Sizewell B, Suffolk - some way from me, but I know there have been higher incidents of cancer reported around the power station.  Don't know how the statistics for diabetes pan out accross E. Anglia...


----------



## Northerner

runner said:


> Environmental theory - there does seem to be higher rates in different areas of the county - where I live being one of them apparently.



People moving from one part of the world with low risk to areas of higher risk, attain that higher risk after a period of time. Definitely environmetal factors at work. From what I've learned about the role of insulin, it doesn't really surprise me that a whole host of factors can affect the way our bodies use it - or fail to.


----------



## runner

insulinaddict09 said:


> hey thats interesting.. i didnt know that
> 
> i dont really see that theory working for me though as all my family are type 1 and we are living all over the world...
> 
> p.s. what part of east anglia are you from?  i lived in Duxford Cambridge for a while.. its lovely down there.



Norfolk, altho' I'm a Londoner by birth.  Been here 30 odd years now, which qualifies me as being a local! 

There can be many causes and factors affecting rates of diabetes and the developmnent of the condition in individuals.  My brother is a type 2, but no-one else in my family has type 1 or 2.  My ketones did go up in my 2nd pegnancy, and pregnancy related diabetes was queried at the time, but  I didn't develop diabetes until 17 years after last child!


----------



## sasha1

runner said:


> Sizewell B, Suffolk - some way from me, but I know there have been higher incidents of cancer reported around the power station.  Don't know how the statistics for diabetes pan out accross E. Anglia...


Hi Runner.
Thats interesting though. Where we are ive got Heysham power station across the bay and Sellafield R P plant up the road about 40 miles away. As kids we used to swim and paddle in the bay. Yes there is a higher risk of cancer in this area to a certain cluster with fisherman to.

But in the late 50's Windscale now Sellafield had a massive fallout, still areas on the fells that sheep, cattle etc cant go. There has been an increase about 1 child per month being diagnosed type 1, for the past several years.


----------



## Northerner

sasha1 said:


> Hi Runner.
> Thats interesting though. Where we are ive got Heysham power station across the bay and Sellafield R P plant up the road about 40 miles away. As kids we used to swim and paddle in the bay. Yes there is a higher risk of cancer in this area to a certain cluster with fisherman to.
> 
> But in the late 50's Windscale now Sellafield had a massive fallout, still areas on the fells that sheep, cattle etc cant go. There has been an increase about 1 child per month being diagnosed type 1, for the past several years.



I used to live in Folkestone, just up the coast from Dungeness...but was only there for a couple of years.


----------



## insulinaddict09

runner said:


> Norfolk, altho' I'm a Londoner by birth.  Been here 30 odd years now, which qualifies me as being a local!
> 
> There can be many causes and factors affecting rates of diabetes and the developmnent of the condition in individuals.  My brother is a type 2, but no-one else in my family has type 1 or 2.  My ketones did go up in my 2nd pegnancy, and pregnancy related diabetes was queried at the time, but  I didn't develop diabetes until 17 years after last child!



Hey.. small world.. i was born in Reading Berkshire, just outside London


----------



## runner

Northerner said:


> I'm pretty sure it played a part in mine. A couple of years ago I was in a very stressful situation for a protracted period, and in the end ended up leaving my job. After that time I started gradually losing weight for no apparent reason - a couple of pounds or so a month, eventually dropping 2 stone, until I fell ill with a virus that triggered the final decline of my beta cells,DKA and a further 17 pound loss in 3 days. Given that I've always been a fairly skinny person, all this was a very significant weight loss. Going back to the running, the DSN suggested that this had helped me make best use of a declining insulin supply so my onset was very gradual and without major symptoms - until the end, of course!



Why is it that some are so reluctant to accept stress is a major factor?  Perhaps risk of being sued in an employment situation for lack of duty of care?  Or is it the old 'medical model' viewpoint do you think?

Prior to developing diabetes, I left my full-time employment because I felt my lifestyle was poor and I would be seriously ill if I carried on.  It was a stressful job and I put my exhuastion down to grief and stress, due to the nature of the work, and after  my parents were both taken ill and the family had a long battle to get them properly assessed and provided with apropriate care, then suffering two major bereavements. A year after going self-employed I went to docs with bad chest pains and was diagnosed with hypothyroidism and diabetes. Had only just started to loose a bit of weight inexplicabley, and was overweight at the time (hypothyroidism explained why I couldn't loose weight when I did try, altho' I have to confess overeating, which I do when sressed, was the main reason!) DSN reckoned the old pancreas failed fairly quickly.  Year later it was decided I was type 1 and went onto insulin last year.  Been a junkie ever since!


----------



## runner

insulinaddict09 said:


> Hey.. small world.. i was born in Reading Berkshire, just outside London



My daughter, now living in Porstmouth's partner comes from Yately...


----------



## Northerner

Going back to my bloomin' basal, I'm not sure what to do tonight. I went for a fairly long run this morning (in between the downpours!) and have been using less bolus - my levle before evening meal was 4.3. Might risk dropping the lantus a unit to avoid possibility of night hypo - it's either that or stuff my face and go to bed 'high'. Decisions, decisions!


----------



## bev

One theory about why children develop type 1 is being 'middle class'! I was astounded by this - but it was explained over the weekend by DUK that if you had 5 kids living and sleeping in the same bed, poor diet and fairly unhygienic, then their immune system is constantly being made stronger by having illnesses and fighting off infections etc - this in turn helps to make their immune system amazingly healthy.

If you take the child of a middle class famly, they will generally be eating a healthier diet, generally be cleaner, generally be less exposed to 'swopping' illness's infections etc off their siblings/friends and this in turn can give them a 'weaker' immune system and so if they are already pre-disposed to being type 1 - then the inevitable will happen, but this also has to be in conjuction with an environmental factor (nobody yet knows what this is)- which of course is the million dollar question! Very interesting though!Bev


----------



## sasha1

Hi again Runner,
Unfortunately some of the medical profession do not accept stress as any illness, not to many years ago when I was going through a very bad patch, my then doctor said 'stress was in the mind,and a self imagined illness' I personally had never heard such s***e in my life and proceeded to sack him.
In Nathans case, whilst in some respect I accept maybe he would have eventually been diabetic, he as a child was under major stress, the break down of relationship with his dad and in that sept06 started secondary school and the nightmare began, he was ruthlessly bullied to the point he was stabbed with a pencil, deodrant sprayed in eyes the list goes on, to the point i went to education office and the local and national papers. The then head denied any problems, by feb07 nathan had reached crisis point was rushed to hospital in DKA and blood sugar or 48.2 the rest is history, he gave up and his body took over. This still haunts me because as his mother i should have protected him form it. I personally would stand up in any court defy any medical doctor and say open your eyes.
Sorry to go on Runner


----------



## sasha1

Northerner said:


> Going back to my bloomin' basal, I'm not sure what to do tonight. I went for a fairly long run this morning (in between the downpours!) and have been using less bolus - my levle before evening meal was 4.3. Might risk dropping the lantus a unit to avoid possibility of night hypo - it's either that or stuff my face and go to bed 'high'. Decisions, decisions!


Hi Northerner
Seeing as you had a long run this morning, and you were only 4.3 at tea..excellent reading.. I think you would be safe to drop it another 1 or poss 2 units,depending how you feel..its only my opinion and what i would do for Nathan without any second thoughts. Or as you say stuff yourself..or just have something a little extra and still drop Lantus by 1 unit.
Decisions rather you than me..haha


----------



## aymes

runner said:


> Sizewell B, Suffolk - some way from me, but I know there have been higher incidents of cancer reported around the power station.  Don't know how the statistics for diabetes pan out accross E. Anglia...



I know in Norfolk at least the occurance of type 1 is higher than the UK average, there was an incident a couple of years back when one of the local MPs suggested it was a result of people from this area not 'widening the genetic pool' and being stuck in Norfolk, didn't go down too well!!!!



runner said:


> Norfolk, altho' I'm a Londoner by birth.  Been here 30 odd years now, which qualifies me as being a local!
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Hurrrah, another one from Norfolk, there are a fair few of us on these boards!!


----------



## Northerner

aymes said:


> ...Hurrrah, another one from Norfolk, there are a fair few of us on these boards!!



There do seem to be 'clusters' of us - quite a few in the Hampshire/Dorset area and quite a few up in Merseyside and Scotland


----------



## Northerner

sasha1 said:


> Hi Northerner
> Seeing as you had a long run this morning, and you were only 4.3 at tea..excellent reading.. I think you would be safe to drop it another 1 or poss 2 units,depending how you feel..its only my opinion and what i would do for Nathan without any second thoughts. Or as you say stuff yourself..or just have something a little extra and still drop Lantus by 1 unit.
> Decisions rather you than me..haha



When I was on 20 lantus I would have dropped it by a unit and that seemed to do the trick. But then 1 unit was only 5% of my basal, now that I'm on 9 that translates to 11% of my basal which sounds like a lot to me. Shame I can't drop by half a unit, but considering the battle I had getting a 1 unit pen, that's not going to happen any time soon!


----------



## bev

You can get half unit pens Northerner. If you need one i could get one for you - but it would be a junior pen -but it would still take a normal cartridge!

Why cant you get one from your team? Bev


----------



## Northerner

bev said:


> You can get half unit pens Northerner. If you need one i could get one for you - but it would be a junior pen -but it would still take a normal cartridge!
> 
> Why cant you get one from your team? Bev



Hi bev, I was alluding to the problems I related under the 'Repeat prescriptions' thread, where it took me several visits to the doctor/pharmacy before they gave me the correct prescription and the correct pen - even though I had given them my *exact* requirements! I haven't seen a half-unit lantus pen, only the Autopen 24s which are either 1 or 2 unit pens. I am planning on booking an appointment with my DSN soon though, so will ask then - I'm sure they'll have something, but thank you for your kind offer! 

Before bed tonight I was 8.6, so I decided I was OK to take the 9 units of lantus - I await the morning reading with interest!


----------



## runner

sasha1 said:


> Hi again Runner,
> Unfortunately some of the medical profession do not accept stress as any illness, not to many years ago when I was going through a very bad patch, my then doctor said 'stress was in the mind,and a self imagined illness' I personally had never heard such s***e in my life and proceeded to sack him.
> In Nathans case, whilst in some respect I accept maybe he would have eventually been diabetic, he as a child was under major stress, the break down of relationship with his dad and in that sept06 started secondary school and the nightmare began, he was ruthlessly bullied to the point he was stabbed with a pencil, deodrant sprayed in eyes the list goes on, to the point i went to education office and the local and national papers. The then head denied any problems, by feb07 nathan had reached crisis point was rushed to hospital in DKA and blood sugar or 48.2 the rest is history, he gave up and his body took over. This still haunts me because as his mother i should have protected him form it. I personally would stand up in any court defy any medical doctor and say open your eyes.
> Sorry to go on Runner



It's the school and the medical team that should have been protecting him - the school should have an anti-bullying policy and should stick to it. They should have protected Nathan.  Sadly I knew of a GP, many years ago who was a bit sceptical about depression, but who was excellent in every other respect.  He ended up having a major breakdown....

Don't beat yourself up - as parents you can only do the best you can at the time, with the kowledge you have at the time _and_ the emotional strength you have at the time. Onwards and upwards


----------



## runner

Northerner said:


> Going back to my bloomin' basal, I'm not sure what to do tonight. I went for a fairly long run this morning (in between the downpours!) and have been using less bolus - my levle before evening meal was 4.3. Might risk dropping the lantus a unit to avoid possibility of night hypo - it's either that or stuff my face and go to bed 'high'. Decisions, decisions!



How was it this morning?


----------



## Northerner

Northerner said:


> ...Before bed tonight I was 8.6, so I decided I was OK to take the 9 units of lantus - I await the morning reading with interest!



I ws 5.4 this morning, so it looks like 9 was OK. Just had a look back through my diary and that 8.6 was my highest reading for two weeks! Also had a look at my readings, using my meter software. Over the past 6 months my average level has been 5.68 with 8% of the readings hypos, which I'm pretty pleased about - sorry to show off!


----------



## runner

QUOTE]

Hurrrah, another one from Norfolk, there are a fair few of us on these boards!![/QUOTE]

'Ello my little Norfolk Dumplings!   I wonder if this reflects the rate of diabetes here, or that we are apparently one of the biggest users (proportionately - and in numbers, not size!) of the web- eBay in particular.


----------



## runner

Northerner said:


> I ws 5.4 this morning, so it looks like 9 was OK. Just had a look back through my diary and that 8.6 was my highest reading for two weeks! Also had a look at my readings, using my meter software. Over the past 6 months my average level has been 5.68 with 8% of the readings hypos, which I'm pretty pleased about - sorry to show off!



Well done   and Grrr  - mine was 8.3 this am altho it ws 6. something during the night.  My average level is still 8 something.  Watch those hypos - it can affect your brain (memory) apparently (I can't afford to loose any more cells )


----------



## sofaraway

you can't get a half unit pen for lantus. only for levemir/novorapid 

well done on your levels Alan they really are fantastic


----------



## Northerner

sofaraway said:


> you can't get a half unit pen for lantus. only for levemir/novorapid



Seems silly to me that you have to use different pens for different insulins, unless it's supposed to stop you from injecting the wrong stuff. Am I on a particularly low dose of Lantus then (9 units)? If half a unit of levemir can make a difference, why not lantus?



sofaraway said:


> well done on your levels Alan they really are fantastic



Thanks, m'dear!


----------



## runner

Northerner said:


> Seems silly to me that you have to use different pens for different insulins, unless it's supposed to stop you from injecting the wrong stuff. Am I on a particularly low dose of Lantus then (9 units)? If half a unit of levemir can make a difference, why not lantus?
> 
> Don't know if it's low - My average is 11, but have increased to 13 over last week or two because of physical inactivity, and overwork.  Hope to go back to normal over next few weeks.


----------



## sasha1

Northerner said:


> Seems silly to me that you have to use different pens for different insulins, unless it's supposed to stop you from injecting the wrong stuff. Am I on a particularly low dose of Lantus then (9 units)? If half a unit of levemir can make a difference, why not lantus?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, m'dear!



Hi Notherner,

Thats a spot on reading for morning, and a good reading going to bed to,
I cant say if your on a particularly low dose of Lantus or not, but its working for you brill, and everyones insulin needs are different, as we are all aware.
Nathan takes 45 units of Lantus at the moment, but thats to do with his age, hormones etc, and teenagers do require substantially more insulin than adults, he was however on 62 units just over 3 weeks ago. It swings up and down.
Today he been exceptionally high 17.4 at tea, just checked him for ketones and he has a trace, will see how he goes over the next few hours  .
Anyway, how the rest of your day been

Heidi


----------



## Northerner

sasha1 said:


> Hi Notherner,
> 
> Thats a spot on reading for morning, and a good reading going to bed to,
> I cant say if your on a particularly low dose of Lantus or not, but its working for you brill, and everyones insulin needs are different, as we are all aware.
> Nathan takes 45 units of Lantus at the moment, but thats to do with his age, hormones etc, and teenagers do require substantially more insulin than adults, he was however on 62 units just over 3 weeks ago. It swings up and down.
> Today he been exceptionally high 17.4 at tea, just checked him for ketones and he has a trace, will see how he goes over the next few hours  .
> Anyway, how the rest of your day been
> 
> Heidi



My total insulin has fallen from around 60 units a day to around 35. Didn't I read somewhere that the slow-acting should be 50% of your fast-acting? That was true before (40 NR/20 lantus), but not quite now (26 NR/9 lantus - more like 33%).

I feel I have been so lucky in getting this at my time of life, given that I obviously have the pre-disposition for it. It must be so difficult as a young person with everything else that's going on - I was able to enjoy my youth relatively care free. I do hope that Nathan gets into some kind of settled, 'in range' levels soon!

I'm Mr Perfect-Levels today, I was 4.8 before lunch and 4.1 before evening meal, so I'm getting the food/activity/insulin thing pretty much spot on - for today, at least! Goodness knows how, and am currently feeling as I might have underestimated the NR for my huge chicken curry, apple pie and custard...(and three squares of chocolate...and some nuts...)


----------



## sasha1

Northerner said:


> My total insulin has fallen from around 60 units a day to around 35. Didn't I read somewhere that the slow-acting should be 50% of your fast-acting? That was true before (40 NR/20 lantus), but not quite now (26 NR/9 lantus - more like 33%).
> 
> I feel I have been so lucky in getting this at my time of life, given that I obviously have the pre-disposition for it. It must be so difficult as a young person with everything else that's going on - I was able to enjoy my youth relatively care free. I do hope that Nathan gets into some kind of settled, 'in range' levels soon!
> 
> I'm Mr Perfect-Levels today, I was 4.8 before lunch and 4.1 before evening meal, so I'm getting the food/activity/insulin thing pretty much spot on - for today, at least! Goodness knows how, and am currently feeling as I might have underestimated the NR for my huge chicken curry, apple pie and custard...(and three squares of chocolate...and some nuts...)



Hiya, 
 I seem to remember reading or being told that, Nathans ration is about 50/50, but that said it can alter as you say to about 33%..
It take's hard and determinerd work to acheive those levels, and deffinately something to be proud of
Bless on the NR. main thing is you enjoyed your tea..p.s..that sounds mighty tasty though
Heidi


----------



## Northerner

sasha1 said:


> ...Bless on the NR. main thing is you enjoyed your tea..p.s..that sounds mighty tasty though
> Heidi



It was, and all home made!


----------



## Pigeon

Hi Northerner, I only take 9 units Lantus too, so I don't think it's that unusual to take that little - although everyone else on my DAFNE course was taking about 40! I often thought a half unit autopen would be useful - I have a junior novopen (goes up in half units) and it's quite handy, especially when I'm being indecisive about how many carbs in a meal! It's also a bit more snazzy looking than the adult version!


----------



## Northerner

Pigeon said:


> Hi Northerner, I only take 9 units Lantus too, so I don't think it's that unusual to take that little - although everyone else on my DAFNE course was taking about 40! I often thought a half unit autopen would be useful - I have a junior novopen (goes up in half units) and it's quite handy, especially when I'm being indecisive about how many carbs in a meal! It's also a bit more snazzy looking than the adult version!



We're lantus twins! On the course I went on there was a guy on 60 lantus and a girl on 5! She was also on half units of novorapid, but I think she was honeymooning. Really brought home to me how different everyone is with diabetes!

My bedtime reading tonight was 8.6 again.


----------



## katie

you could be honeymooning northerner.


----------



## Northerner

katie said:


> you could be honeymooning northerner.



I don't think so, I would expect my levels to be more erratic if my pancreas was spluttering. I'm nearly cured, I tell you! Nearly cured!!!!!


----------



## katie

Northerner said:


> I don't think so, I would expect my levels to be more erratic if my pancreas was spluttering. I'm nearly cured, I tell you! Nearly cured!!!!!



What gave you that idea? when I was honeymooning my levels were perfect and I had an HbA1c of about 6.  Now I'm not honeymooning and my levels are high 

but yeah, hopefully you are cured instead!


----------



## Northerner

katie said:


> What gave you that idea? when I was honeymooning my levels were perfect and I had an HbA1c of about 6.  Now I'm not honeymooning and my levels are high
> 
> but yeah, hopefully you are cured instead!



I suppose I'd need a C-peptide test to see whether I'm producing any insulin. Might be something to ask the DSN when I get round to making an appointment! I'd always imagined that a honeymooning pancreas would be unpredictable, putting out too much or too little?


----------



## katie

Northerner said:


> I suppose I'd need a C-peptide test to see whether I'm producing any insulin. Might be something to ask the DSN when I get round to making an appointment! I'd always imagined that a honeymooning pancreas would be unpredictable, putting out too much or too little?



ooh there is a test? 

When I was honeymooning at the beginning it was sooo easy.  I could snack between meals and have perfect sugars still - I thought diabetes was a breeze!!

Oh how wrong I was  It's really p***ing me off right now.  I have to take like 20 something each meal and i'm still about 12 every time I test and the only way I get a normal reading is by a correction dose after I havent eaten for a couple of hours URGH.  I'm just hoping some more exercise will help, otherwise it's a low carb diet for me


----------



## litto-miss-loz

I think this has to be the longest thread on here 

Just wanted to point that out


----------



## aymes

katie said:


> ooh there is a test?
> 
> When I was honeymooning at the beginning it was sooo easy.  I could snack between meals and have perfect sugars still - I thought diabetes was a breeze!!
> 
> Oh how wrong I was  It's really p***ing me off right now.  I have to take like 20 something each meal and i'm still about 12 every time I test and the only way I get a normal reading is by a correction dose after I havent eaten for a couple of hours URGH.  I'm just hoping some more exercise will help, otherwise it's a low carb diet for me




Me too, when I was honeymooning it didn't seem to really matter what I did, my numbers were always really good. I came out of honeymoon very suddenly and my, what a shock to the system that was!


----------



## katie

aymes said:


> Me too, when I was honeymooning it didn't seem to really matter what I did, my numbers were always really good. I came out of honeymoon very suddenly and my, what a shock to the system that was!



yeah same here, but it took me about a week to realise that I had to start doubling the amount of insulin I was taking - and it was all down hill from there


----------



## Northerner

aymes said:


> Me too, when I was honeymooning it didn't seem to really matter what I did, my numbers were always really good. I came out of honeymoon very suddenly and my, what a shock to the system that was!



You're all depressing me now!* My numbers have been pretty good ever since the first few weeks after diagnosis, perhaps I'm in for a rude surprise!



litto-miss-loz said:


> I think this has to be the longest thread on here
> 
> Just wanted to point that out



It has turned into quite a saga!

*_Not really, I'm expecting ups and downs as the years progress - or a cure!_


----------



## sasha1

Northerner said:


> You're all depressing me now!* My numbers have been pretty good ever since the first few weeks after diagnosis, perhaps I'm in for a rude surprise!
> 
> 
> 
> It has turned into quite a saga!
> 
> *_Not really, I'm expecting ups and downs as the years progress - or a cure!_



Hi Northerner,
Please  dont be depressed, Nathan came out of honeymoon period abot 10 mths after initital diagnosis, and while his levels did go out of control for a bit, it was easy to control and rectify with the adjusting of insulin. At 14 Nathan hb was 6.8 in feb09..the best in clinic..and very hard to acheive, he always in top 3
Im sure you will be able to take it all in your stride, you seem to have a strong will power. Chin up hun, your doing really well
Heidi


----------



## runner

katie said:


> ooh there is a test?
> 
> When I was honeymooning at the beginning it was sooo easy.  I could snack between meals and have perfect sugars still - I thought diabetes was a breeze!!
> 
> Oh how wrong I was  It's really p***ing me off right now.
> 
> Me too.  My numbers and doses aren't bad,(woke to 6.3)  if a bit erratic, (can rise to 15 if I don't get meal doe right) but I'm really struggling with the self-discipline right now - not overeating, drinking etc. boo hoo!
> 
> Do you think the 'honeymoon' period has anything to do with starting and maintaining a healthier diet, oehpas loosing weight, if you were overweight, and starting more excercise - so all would be beneficial to reducing no.s. and you could get away with a snack ot two?


----------



## Northerner

runner said:


> ...Do you think the 'honeymoon' period has anything to do with starting and maintaining a healthier diet, oehpas loosing weight, if you were overweight, and starting more excercise - so all would be beneficial to reducing no.s. and you could get away with a snack ot two?



I have wondered about this. I'd got myself into quite a state when diagnosed, and I think it is only really since the end of January that I have got back to my former 'healthier' me. My heart, liver and kidneys all took a bit of a battering because of the DKA - all are back to (almost) normal. I say 'almost' because my liver has abnormal bilorubin levels, which the doc thinks may be Gilbert's Syndrome, or possibly the result of my former heavy drinking - it had improved when last measured, might ask for another test tomorrow. What I was leading up to was, possibly my pancreas has also 'recovered' to some degree, and is now putting forth its golden hormone - although probably not as copiously as in its prime!

I was 5.1 on waking this morning, and 5.6 before lunch.


----------



## runner

Northerner said:


> What I was leading up to was, possibly my pancreas has also 'recovered' to some degree, and is now putting forth its golden hormone - although probably not as copiously as in its prime!
> 
> I was 5.1 on waking this morning, and 5.6 before lunch.



I guess it may be a possibility, or maybe yoiur body is making much better use of the insulin you inject?  You must have mastered the self-discipline thing then.  I just really struggle with it when under stress, even tho' I have plenty of incentive.  I was going to say what's your secret, but after being so dreadfuly ill and your body taking a real beating, I think I know!


----------



## Northerner

runner said:


> I guess it may be a possibility, or maybe yoiur body is making much better use of the insulin you inject?  You must have mastered the self-discipline thing then.  I just really struggle with it when under stress, even tho' I have plenty of incentive.  I was going to say what's your secret, but after being so dreadfuly ill and your body taking a real beating, I think I know!



In many ways, I think the discipline and 'overcoming' the odds that goes into marathon running has stood me in good stead. It makes you feel good about yourself, not just because of the endorphins, but because it makes you feel very self-aware and self-sufficient. On the other hand, if I wasn't so used to 'going through the pain barrier' I might not have tried to tough out the illness for so long and not been quite so bad when I did finally give in!


----------



## runner

Northerner said:


> In many ways, I think the discipline and 'overcoming' the odds that goes into marathon running has stood me in good stead. It makes you feel good about yourself, not just because of the endorphins, but because it makes you feel very self-aware and self-sufficient. On the other hand, if I wasn't so used to 'going through the pain barrier' I might not have tried to tough out the illness for so long and not been quite so bad when I did finally give in!



Looks like its all coming together now tho' -  good on ya!

See you've been learning Norfolk then!  Girdle your grummits, rollock your fussits, and plight your cordwangle!


----------



## sasha1

Hi Northener and Runner
Hows the rest of your day been with your levels and that. Hope you are both ok
Heidi


----------



## Northerner

sasha1 said:


> Hi Northener and Runner
> Hows the rest of your day been with your levels and that. Hope you are both ok
> Heidi



I was 3.2 before evening meal, felt OK though. It's awkward because my level was 4.7 four hours after lunch, so the subsequent dip would have been due to my basal being too high - but I took that last night so couldn't change it! I'm still not quite used to having to think so far ahead with everything - life used to be much more spontaneous!


----------



## Northerner

runner said:


> ...See you've been learning Norfolk then!  Girdle your grummits, rollock your fussits, and plight your cordwangle!



It's Ramblin' Syd Rumpo - I'd always associated him with the West Country, but maybe the two regions have common roots, I know you're an odd lot over there! (_Runs and ducks!_)


----------



## runner

Northerner said:


> It's Ramblin' Syd Rumpo - I'd always associated him with the West Country, but maybe the two regions have common roots, I know you're an odd lot over there! (_Runs and ducks!_)



Aaah, we're all Round the Horn here!


----------



## runner

sasha1 said:


> Hi Northener and Runner
> Hows the rest of your day been with your levels and that. Hope you are both ok
> Heidi



6.2 this morning, 12.5 - but I took it after lunch and injected (forgot to test before in the excitment - met an old colleague for lunch, - don't get out much LOL) 5.8 before dinner. Feeling a bit more cheerful now too - thaks for asking.  How's things with you?


----------



## sasha1

Northerner said:


> I was 3.2 before evening meal, felt OK though. It's awkward because my level was 4.7 four hours after lunch, so the subsequent dip would have been due to my basal being too high - but I took that last night so couldn't change it! I'm still not quite used to having to think so far ahead with everything - life used to be much more spontaneous!




I understand exactly what you mean about life being much more spontaneous.
I know with nathan, life at the moment seems to revolve around insulin doses., blood tests, food, appointments, information..whilst i'm a believer in knowledge is power..sometimes my head goes into overload mode..LOL. 
Going back to you feeling a little queasy in the mornings, ave you tried eating a small ginger buscuit.
Heidi


----------



## sasha1

runner said:


> 6.2 this morning, 12.5 - but I took it after lunch and injected (forgot to test before in the excitment - met an old colleague for lunch, - don't get out much LOL) 5.8 before dinner. Feeling a bit more cheerful now too - thaks for asking.  How's things with you?



There good readings.. glad you had a nice lunch.. it does a power of good having a bit of excitment.. LOL. 
Really pleased you feeling a bit more cheerful too.
Yeah we both good thanks.
Heidi


----------



## Northerner

sasha1 said:


> ...Going back to you feeling a little queasy in the mornings, ave you tried eating a small ginger buscuit.
> Heidi



I haven't, although I do have some ginger conserve, so I might have some of that on toast tomorrow for breakfast, see if it makes any difference. I'm seeing the GP at 9 o'clock, so will be able to tell her exactly how I feel!


----------



## litto-miss-loz

Northerner said:


> I have wondered about this. I'd got myself into quite a state when diagnosed, and I think it is only really since the end of January that I have got back to my former 'healthier' me. My heart, liver and kidneys all took a bit of a battering because of the DKA - all are back to (almost) normal. I say 'almost' because my liver has abnormal bilorubin levels, which the doc thinks may be Gilbert's Syndrome, or possibly the result of my former heavy drinking - it had improved when last measured, might ask for another test tomorrow. What I was leading up to was, possibly my pancreas has also 'recovered' to some degree, and is now putting forth its golden hormone - although probably not as copiously as in its prime!
> 
> I was 5.1 on waking this morning, and 5.6 before lunch.



So northener, you have had DKA??? 

I have only ever had ketones, never went that far to get DKA before and just wondered how you feel when u get it and what do the docs need to do to get rid of it??


----------



## katie

litto-miss-loz said:


> So northener, you have had DKA???
> 
> I have only ever had ketones, never went that far to get DKA before and just wondered how you feel when u get it and what do the docs need to do to get rid of it??



did you not have it before diagnoses?

You get extreme thirst, frequent urination, weight loss/muscle waste, tiredness sickness etc etc


----------



## litto-miss-loz

katie said:


> did you not have it before diagnoses?
> 
> You get extreme thirst, frequent urination, weight loss/muscle waste, tiredness sickness etc etc



I had extreme thirst and urination. that was all. 

I had went to the doctor with a swelling in my neck and then they checked everythin else to make sure i was ok and thats where they found out i had diabetes.

they never said i had DKA but i did have ketones.. 

hmm im unsure now lol


----------



## katie

litto-miss-loz said:


> I had extreme thirst and urination. that was all.
> 
> I had went to the doctor with a swelling in my neck and then they checked everythin else to make sure i was ok and thats where they found out i had diabetes.
> 
> they never said i had DKA but i did have ketones..
> 
> hmm im unsure now lol



im not sure if it's called DKA or not  or if that's what come after those syptoms. anyone??


----------



## Northerner

litto-miss-loz said:


> So northener, you have had DKA???
> 
> I have only ever had ketones, never went that far to get DKA before and just wondered how you feel when u get it and what do the docs need to do to get rid of it??



I didn't know that it was DKA. What happened was, one evening I was suddenly very sick - very unusual for me. I thought I had picked up a stomach bug so settled into expecting to feel awful for a couple of days, as I normally recover within that time. I was sick throughout the night, and the following day, and the next. I couldn't keep anything down, even water - I'd taken to sucking ice cubes to try and stay hydrated. My weight dropped rapidly. Unfortunately, this was just before a Bank Holiday weekend (exactly a year ago, in fact!), so I couldn't go in to see my GP. By the Monday I was feeling so bad - heart racing, had lost 17 pounds weight, couldn't hear or see very well, got breathless walking across a room, so I decided that the time had come to call 999. My levels were 37 and I was in hospital for 8 days, including having a suspected heart attack the day after being admitted.

I was put on intravenous insulin, finally going onto injections two days before being discharged - I actually felt OK about 24 hours after going in because all the sickness had stopped and I could eat and drink again! Looking back though, I must have been in a pretty shocking state!

I have never felt so ill and never want to feel that bad again. This is why I find it almost impossible to understand those people who risk DKA by not taking their insulin etc., even though they may have already had it more than once.


----------



## Northerner

katie said:


> im not sure if it's called DKA or not  or if that's what come after those syptoms. anyone??



DKA is when the levels of ketones rise so high that the blood becomes acidic.


----------



## katie

Northerner said:


> DKA is when the levels of ketones rise so high that the blood becomes acidic.



ive just been reading about it on the trust wikipedia lol.  so how did u get to that stage? had you had all the other symptoms for a long time? thirst, tiredness, hunger etc.  I let my symptoms go on for months, glad my blood didnt turn acidic


----------



## litto-miss-loz

my god that sounds awful !! 

 I was lucky that I didnt go that far when I got diagnosed with diabetes.

My cousin was diagnosed aged 8 and she actually went into the coma but luckily woke up and is doing fine 10 years on 

You dont realise how serious diabetes is until you actually have it.

Thats soo scary, that, that can happen. 

Sometimes I think to maself, that all i need to do is eat a load of sugar and I could be gone... obvii i wouldnt do that, so no1 panick lol but it is that easy!!

Glad your ok now and thanks for sharing your experience


----------



## litto-miss-loz

katie said:


> ive just been reading about it on the trust wikipedia lol.  so how did u get to that stage? had you had all the other symptoms for a long time? thirst, tiredness, hunger etc.  I let my symptoms go on for months, glad my blood didnt turn acidic



When i was first diagnosed the doctors said that I probably have had diabetes 6 months before being diagnosed. I was like :O:O:O


----------



## Northerner

katie said:


> ive just been reading about it on the trust wikipedia lol.  so how did u get to that stage? had you had all the other symptoms for a long time? thirst, tiredness, hunger etc.  I let my symptoms go on for months, glad my blood didnt turn acidic



I didn't realise what it was. With hindsight, I did have the other symptoms for ages - as I've said before, I think my pancreas may have started to fail two years earlier (so I was probably LADA). I drank quite heavily, but then put the thirst and tiredness down to dehydration due to the alcohol, and probably partly down to the fact that I was getting on - 49 at diagnosis. I've been told that I did have a virus, which was the 'final straw' and nobbled my pancreas completely, sending my levels sky high.


----------



## Northerner

Well, I have just been to see my lovely GP and she was great. I asked if I could have my normal blood tests done through the surgery, as the clinic have pushed back my appointment till October, so she's arranged all that. She told me not to worry if my HbA1c is a little higher than the 5.4 I got in January, as that was very low. She's also prescribed some enteric coated aspirin to see if they make me less queasy than the dispersible ones, and I can stop the clopidogrel.

So, a good visit, and I only had to wait about 15 minutes, and the receptionist was friendly!

p.s. went to bed on 7.8 and woke this morning to 4.8


----------



## Steff

sounds like a good morning all round northener good news


----------



## bev

Yes well done Northerner! Bev


----------



## runner

Good result all round - I reckon that's sound advice about not worrying if it's a bit higher (altho' judging by all your posts, reckon it will be lower - should we set up a bet?  Fingers crossed.


----------



## Northerner

runner said:


> Good result all round - I reckon that's sound advice about not worrying if it's a bit higher (altho' judging by all your posts, reckon it will be lower - should we set up a bet?  Fingers crossed.



I once read someone here had their last HbA1c's at around 4.7 - 4.8, that sounds too low to me! Mid 5's is what a non-diabetic would be so I'll be happy with that, or anything under 6.5!

The doctor suggested I wait about 4 weeks before having the test done, as I have only been stable on my insulin for a couple of weeks - she thinks that the result will be a better reflection of my average BG, assuming it remains stable of course! She also said that a lot of patients had had their clinic appointments pushed back a long way so there must be some changes going on.


----------



## runner

Northerner said:


> I once read someone here had their last HbA1c's at around 4.7 - 4.8, that sounds too low to me! Mid 5's is what a non-diabetic would be so I'll be happy with that, or anything under 6.5!
> .



I would be too - last one was 7.7.

How weird is this:  BS was 6.7 this am.  Had breakfast and used usual dose for toast and marmalade and correcting dose - 2units.  By 11.15 began to get hypo feelings (for me it starts with feeling shaky - even tho' I'm not visibly shaky) - Reading was 4.5  As I trust my body rather than numbers, I had an emergency banana on my way out.  Pre-lunch reading was 4.4!  but no hypo feelings.  This seems to happen sometimes - can start to get hypo feelings from 5 down, but more usually 3.9 and below. Always trust my feelings and body tho' and go by that.

Hey-ho, that's the way the glucose tabs crumble!


----------



## sofaraway

runner maybe you caught your blood sugar dropping and acted before it got to a hypo level so it was the drop you were feeling. then later before lunhc your blood sugar was stable at 4.4 not dropping so you didn't feel hypo, does that make sense? i'm not sure it does writing it down, but it does in my head lol

I reckon Northerner's A1c will be 5.1%, whats the prize? 

Dr Bernstien reckon's people with diabetes should aim for an A1c of 4.2-4.6 %
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdxPfxIbKqo


----------



## Northerner

sofaraway said:


> I reckon Northerner's A1c will be 5.1%, whats the prize?
> 
> Dr Bernstien reckon's people with diabetes should aim for an A1c of 4.2-4.6 %
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdxPfxIbKqo



I remember reading this - sounds way too low to me, and I can't see how it is possible to get that and still have your readings above 4.0, or 3.5 at least - I know non-diabetics have a normal range down to 3.5 and this is what he suggests we need to have to stay safe from complications. Although, didn't I read that their measure is slightly different to ours and therefore appears lower?

Just think about it - staying above 4.0 and below 5.0 and eating food! You'd have to eat some very constant, slow release food all the time I would imagine, and never stray from the path or get your insulin doses wrong (or be ill, or exercise, or get stressed, or too hot, or too cold, or too excited...!!!!)

A 5.1% would be something to brag about though!


----------



## sofaraway

I think it's far too low really, I agree that you couldn't have any times where your blood sugar rises to achieve that. I reckon it's dangerous really, anyone who wants to drive etc. 
the research says that an A1c below 7% reduces risk of complications. As far as I am aware there is no research to show how much more beneficial an A1c of 6 is, and then how much difference between a 6 and a 5.


----------



## runner

sofaraway said:


> runner maybe you caught your blood sugar dropping and acted before it got to a hypo level so it was the drop you were feeling. then later before lunhc your blood sugar was stable at 4.4 not dropping so you didn't feel hypo, does that make sense? i'm not sure it does writing it down, but it does in my head lol
> 
> I reckon Northerner's A1c will be 5.1%, whats the prize?
> 
> Dr Bernstien reckon's people with diabetes should aim for an A1c of 4.2-4.6 %
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdxPfxIbKqo



Yes, it does make sense - so it's the decreasing or dropping bS that results in the hypo warnings...

Hmmm he's had quite a few low readings until he sorted his basal, altho' not having a test for a few weeks.  I reckon 5.8

We could have a virtual cake or choccy bar as prize?  Or huge bowl strawberries and cream (slightly healthier)?


----------



## sasha1

Hi Northerner
 How you been today, did the ginger help.

Heidi


----------



## runner

runner said:


> I would be too - last one was 7.7.
> 
> How weird is this:  BS was 6.7 this am.  Had breakfast and used usual dose for toast and marmalade and correcting dose - 2units.  By 11.15 began to get hypo feelings (for me it starts with feeling shaky - even tho' I'm not visibly shaky) - Reading was 4.5  As I trust my body rather than numbers, I had an emergency banana on my way out.  Pre-lunch reading was 4.4!  but no hypo feelings.  This seems to happen sometimes - can start to get hypo feelings from 5 down, but more usually 3.9 and below. Always trust my feelings and body tho' and go by that.
> 
> Hey-ho, that's the way the glucose tabs crumble!



Following on from this, had a reading of 8.1 just after dinner, about 6pm, had 2 units, then had reading of 11.6 at about 7pm, didn;t treat this because went to Yoga, then had a reading of 3.8 when i got back at 9pm, no hypo symptoms tho'  but have eaten.  Direct result of excercise (and heat I think)?


----------



## Northerner

sasha1 said:


> Hi Northerner
> How you been today, did the ginger help.
> 
> Heidi



Gah! You've just reminded me what I was supposed to be spreading on my toast at 8 am! Better luck tomorrow! 

I was 5.7 before bed last night, so I had a weetabix, and woke to 4.9 this morning. This thread has turned into a bit of a blog - it will be interesting for me to look back on in years to come to see how my relationship with diabetes was evolving in my first year of diagnosis.


----------



## katie

Northerner said:


> This thread has turned into a bit of a blog - it will be interesting for me to look back on in years to come to see how my relationship with diabetes was evolving in my first year of diagnosis.



i was just thinking the other day that you should write a blog


----------



## tracey w

runner said:


> I would be too - last one was 7.7.
> 
> How weird is this:  BS was 6.7 this am.  Had breakfast and used usual dose for toast and marmalade and correcting dose - 2units.  By 11.15 began to get hypo feelings (for me it starts with feeling shaky - even tho' I'm not visibly shaky) - Reading was 4.5  As I trust my body rather than numbers, I had an emergency banana on my way out.  Pre-lunch reading was 4.4!  but no hypo feelings.  This seems to happen sometimes - can start to get hypo feelings from 5 down, but more usually 3.9 and below. Always trust my feelings and body tho' and go by that.
> 
> Hey-ho, that's the way the glucose tabs crumble!



just wondering why you were correcting 6.7 with 2 units as this is in range? 1 unit can bring you down by 3mmols approximtely


----------



## tracey w

runner said:


> Following on from this, had a reading of 8.1 just after dinner, about 6pm, had 2 units, then had reading of 11.6 at about 7pm, didn;t treat this because went to Yoga, then had a reading of 3.8 when i got back at 9pm, no hypo symptoms tho'  but have eaten.  Direct result of excercise (and heat I think)?



When you say just after dinner, how long do you mean? Depending on what yu ate can take anything from 1 to 4/5 hours to digest.


----------



## katie

why would you correct a level of 6.7 full stop?


----------



## tracey w

katie said:


> why would you correct a level of 6.7 full stop?



I know! thats what i was trying to say


----------



## katie

tracey w said:


> I know! thats what i was trying to say



hehe i know, you edited your post and i didnt see it in time


----------



## Patricia

Glad someone else mentioned the correcting dose..I noticed it but thought I was missing something...


----------



## runner

Patricia said:


> Glad someone else mentioned the correcting dose..I noticed it but thought I was missing something...



Ah, may be a misnomer, but it's what I call the suggested dose (worked out by my DSN)  for that pre-meal reading (altho' I took the reading straight after, not before,  on this occassion). I found, depending on what I ate, this didn't always cover it, so got into the on-line course about carbs and have now worked out what I need roughly for each meal.  This works most of the time, but fluctuates with excercise and other things, which I am currently working on.

Not sure if that explains it?


----------



## katie

runner said:


> Ah, may be a misnomer, but it's what I call the suggested dose (worked out by my DSN)  for that pre-meal reading (altho' I took the reading straight after, not before,  on this occassion). I found, depending on what I ate, this didn't always cover it, so got into the on-line course about carbs and have now worked out what I need roughly for each meal.  This works most of the time, but fluctuates with excercise and other things, which I am currently working on.
> 
> Not sure if that explains it?



so basically it isnt really a correction dose, but a bit extra insulin because from experience youve worked out u need 2 units more?


----------



## runner

katie said:


> so basically it isnt really a correction dose, but a bit extra insulin because from experience youve worked out u need 2 units more?



Yep, but it was 2 units altogether, not an extra 2 units on top of the recommended dose.  Sorry to confuse - I am still getting my head around it all!


----------



## tracey w

runner said:


> Yep, but it was 2 units altogether, not an extra 2 units on top of the recommended dose.  Sorry to confuse - I am still getting my head around it all!



ok, soooo 2 units is for your meal?? but you test after and not before you eat?

glad it was not a correction dose for 6.7 anyway  have you asked about the dafne course at your hospital? I have just done it and its brilliant, would recommend any type one to do it who is motivated to carb count and test at least 4 times a day


----------



## runner

tracey w said:


> ok, soooo 2 units is for your meal?? but you test after and not before you eat?
> 
> glad it was not a correction dose for 6.7 anyway  have you asked about the dafne course at your hospital? I have just done it and its brilliant, would recommend any type one to do it who is motivated to carb count and test at least 4 times a day



No, I usually test before, but when I get distracted and forget, I do it asap.  Yes, the course sounds great.  Don't think the hospital are providing one, but the community DSN mentioned something similar may take place.  I found Bournemouth University's online course good, but it would be nice to meet up with others.


----------



## litto-miss-loz

tracey w said:


> ok, soooo 2 units is for your meal?? but you test after and not before you eat?
> 
> glad it was not a correction dose for 6.7 anyway  have you asked about the dafne course at your hospital? I have just done it and its brilliant, would recommend any type one to do it who is motivated to carb count and test at least 4 times a day



Im goin on the dafne course in sept and i have an appointment to learn simple carb countin in june 
lookin forward to it. I know bits and bobs about carb countin but im not 100% sure about everythin.


----------



## katie

runner said:


> I found Bournemouth University's online course good



WOO!!

(i go to bournemouth uni )


----------



## litto-miss-loz

yeah i printed the food and drink lists from there 

its a good site.


----------



## aymes

runner said:


> No, I usually test before, but when I get distracted and forget, I do it asap.  Yes, the course sounds great.  Don't think the hospital are providing one, but the community DSN mentioned something similar may take place.  I found Bournemouth University's online course good, but it would be nice to meet up with others.



I know you said you're from Norfolk, are you with the N&N? If so they do do dafne...


----------



## Northerner

tracey w said:


> just wondering why you were correcting 6.7 with 2 units as this is in range? 1 unit can bring you down by 3mmols approximtely



I would add in a correction if I had a pre-meal of 6.7, as my 'mid-range' is 5.5 - so, I would dose for the carbs I was about to eat plus an extra bit for the 1.2 above my mid-range. Similarly, if I was below my mid-range I would dose less.


----------



## aymes

Northerner said:


> I would add in a correction if I had a pre-meal of 6.7, as my 'mid-range' is 5.5 - so, I would dose for the carbs I was about to eat plus an extra bit for the 1.2 above my mid-range. Similarly, if I was below my mid-range I would dose less.



Out of interest, how much would you expect one unit of insulin to drop you? The reason I ask is that I wouldn't usually correct for a reading at the high end of my target. My target is 4.5-7.5 and I find a unit of insulin usually drops me by about three points, so correcting the high end of target, say a reading of 7, would drop me too low, in this example to about 4. The only exception would be if in deciding whether to round a dose up or down, then I would base that on what end of my target I was. It sounds great that you can be so precise with corrections, I suppose it just depends on how much insulin we each need as to what our potential 'margin' for corrections is, at least in the absence of a pump I suppose!


----------



## tracey w

aymes said:


> Out of interest, how much would you expect one unit of insulin to drop you? The reason I ask is that I wouldn't usually correct for a reading at the high end of my target. My target is 4.5-7.5 and I find a unit of insulin usually drops me by about three points, so correcting the high end of target, say a reading of 7, would drop me too low, in this example to about 4. The only exception would be if in deciding whether to round a dose up or down, then I would base that on what end of my target I was. It sounds great that you can be so precise with corrections, I suppose it just depends on how much insulin we each need as to what our potential 'margin' for corrections is, at least in the absence of a pump I suppose!



I do exactly the same aymes, if i corected a 6.7 I would definately go too low, 1 unit generally drops me by 3-4 if correcting. I never usually correct anything below 9-10, if going to bed i would not correct 9 and would find im usually in arnge in the morning.


----------



## runner

aymes said:


> I know you said you're from Norfolk, are you with the N&N? If so they do do dafne...



No, with the Paget, although just with nurse at local practice at moment, although I can contact DSN at Paget if I want to.  However, I guess I could ask my local DSN at surgery for referral to N&N Dafne course perhaps....


----------



## runner

1 dose usually drops my BS by 3 too, so wouldn't correct night reading of this, now I seem to have got the basal sorted, only pre-meal, to account for food.


----------



## Northerner

aymes said:


> Out of interest, how much would you expect one unit of insulin to drop you? The reason I ask is that I wouldn't usually correct for a reading at the high end of my target. My target is 4.5-7.5 and I find a unit of insulin usually drops me by about three points, so correcting the high end of target, say a reading of 7, would drop me too low, in this example to about 4. The only exception would be if in deciding whether to round a dose up or down, then I would base that on what end of my target I was. It sounds great that you can be so precise with corrections, I suppose it just depends on how much insulin we each need as to what our potential 'margin' for corrections is, at least in the absence of a pump I suppose!



It would depend on the time of day, but 1 unit would drop me by about 2 mmol/l, so a 6.7 would drop to 4.7. My range is 4.0-7.0. I wouldn't correct at night, as I'd want to be in the upper part of my range before bed. I was 6.8 last night, and woke to 4.6 this morning. The ginger conserve I had on my toast doesn't seem to have prevented my feelings of nausea, unfortunately. I finish the clopidogrel in two weeks so I'll be able to determine whether it's the combination of that and the aspirin that's causing the problems. If it's just the aspirin, I'll try the enteric coated ones and hope that finally cracks it!


----------



## Patricia

Do anyone think that people are more 'comfortable' sitting at certain ranges? I say this because my son definitely could *not* sit at 4.7 and feel okay. He would feel borderline hypo and need to eat. I'm sure he passes through this number all the time of course, but he can sit at about 5.5 - 7.5 and feel stable, but at 4.7 he always feels he's 'on the move'.

Perhaps it's just being so newly into all this, but we'd never aim for 4 via correction. Perhaps partly because correction doses seem to be so hit and miss with him, depending on time of day, whether with or without food, etc. The risk of going low -- a lot -- is very high for us if we aim for 4. Age related maybe?


----------



## runner

Northerner said:


> The ginger conserve I had on my toast doesn't seem to have prevented my feelings of nausea, unfortunately. I finish the clopidogrel in two weeks so I'll be able to determine whether it's the combination of that and the aspirin that's causing the problems. If it's just the aspirin, I'll try the enteric coated ones and hope that finally cracks it!



May not help at all, but I used to find plain, _fizzy_ water helped with morning sickness.  Usually just drink filtered tap water, but drank loads of perrier then.  Hope you feel better soon.


----------



## runner

Patricia said:


> Do anyone think that people are more 'comfortable' sitting at certain ranges? I say this because my son definitely could *not* sit at 4.7 and feel okay. He would feel borderline hypo and need to eat. I'm sure he passes through this number all the time of course, but he can sit at about 5.5 - 7.5 and feel stable, but at 4.7 he always feels he's 'on the move'.
> 
> Perhaps it's just being so newly into all this, but we'd never aim for 4 via correction. Perhaps partly because correction doses seem to be so hit and miss with him, depending on time of day, whether with or without food, etc. The risk of going low -- a lot -- is very high for us if we aim for 4. Age related maybe?



Definitely, and it varies - I get hypo feelings when I drop below 5 sometimes  and at other times below 4 - I think Tracey explained this earlier on or in another thread, so not sure it's age-related or just individual.


----------



## Northerner

Patricia said:


> Do anyone think that people are more 'comfortable' sitting at certain ranges? I say this because my son definitely could *not* sit at 4.7 and feel okay. He would feel borderline hypo and need to eat. I'm sure he passes through this number all the time of course, but he can sit at about 5.5 - 7.5 and feel stable, but at 4.7 he always feels he's 'on the move'.
> ...



I feel perfectly fine at 4.x, in fact I'm usually OK at 3.5, but below that I generally get good warnings. The fine-tuning seems to work well for me and the effects of a little adjustment up or down seem to be pretty predictable. Sometimes I feel low and check to find that I am 4.5+ but then realise that it's because I'm hungry - I'm starting to recognise this now as being slightly different to my hypo warnings. 

This is an interesting time for me as it's exactly a year since I fell ill - I remember watching the Champions League football on the telly and suddenly feeling very sick - wanted to rush to the bathroom, but had to see the outcome of the penalty shootout! It all went downhill from there!


----------



## Patricia

The distinction between hypo low and needing food low is a *great* one to try to cultivate. Think this is happening sometimes with E...


----------



## aymes

I think it is an individual thing, I'm usually confortable sitting around the 4 - 4.5 mark, but going back a couple of years ago I really struggled on anything below a 6. Of course my control back then wasn't as good which may explain it. I had a 2.6 last night and hadn't noticed at all so it's never an exact scence!


----------



## sofaraway

I don't feel comofrtable being below 5 and would eat something to bring myself to above 5 if I found myself there, I can't remember the last time I was below 5 though.


----------



## sasha1

Hi Northener,

How you been getting on over the past couple of days?
Regarding levels, i agree with aymes, think it is an individual thing.
With Nathan being a teenager I like him to sit at about 6... But at the moment he swinging, and having frequent hypo's even with insulin adjustments.
Heidi


----------



## Northerner

Well, this morning I had my highest waking reading that I can remember. It was only 7.3, but I don't ever remember having a reading over 7. A few weeks ago it was around 4.x, and more recently around 5.x.  Now I'm wondering if my basal requirements are changing again, or maybe if they are spot on? Last night I was 6.9 before bed, so out of habit I had a digestive biscuit. Maybe if I hadn't I would have been lower this morning e.g. around 6. I don't think I'll change the basal yet, I'll see how things go over the next couple of days, but if the numbers stay consistently above 7 then I'll raise the lantus by a unit.


----------



## Northerner

Having a weird couple of days. After waking to 7.3 yesterday, the day's readings were lunch 5.0, evening 3.9, bedtime 3.8. I had a snack and woke to 5.5 this morning. I went for a run this morning and was 6.4 before and 7.2 afterwards, but then I was 7.5 before lunch, 6 hours after my breakfast! I'd fully expected to be much lower, having dosed normally for breakfast and then having the run I would have expected to be around 4.5. No NR in my system at that time so it must be my basal that is now slightly too low. Sigh!


----------



## katie

too low? you had two hypos...

Today i woke up to 4.8 (i was shakey) that was after a sh*t load of insulin before I went to bed. I'm fed up.


----------



## sofaraway

I think your basal is fine actually, if you raise it again those 3.9 and 3.8 readings may well be lower and proper hypos.


----------



## Steff

snap im totally confused how i can be 23.1 outta the blue im the opposite of all you guys arghhh!! high high high


----------



## Northerner

katie said:


> too low? you had two hypos...
> 
> Today i woke up to 4.8 (i was shakey) that was after a sh*t load of insulin before I went to bed. I'm fed up.



That's what's confusing me katie! I've had two low readings and two higher-than-expected readings! There's no pattern or clues as to what to do! I'm fed up too. Your 4.8 waking BS was good! What is it normally?


----------



## katie

Northerner said:


> That's what's confusing me katie! I've had two low readings and two higher-than-expected readings! There's no pattern or clues as to what to do! I'm fed up too. Your 4.8 waking BS was good! What is it normally?



In the last couple of days ive woken to about 16, so 4.8 is low for me and I get mild hypo symptoms.  It's not usually as bad as 16, but usually over 7 

I think you are trying to be too perfect with your readings, 7 is fine! but I guess your control is so good you want to get it between 4-6?


----------



## katie

btw i think the 16 readings are because i had night-time hypos! cant win...


----------



## Steff

I dont know about some of you but i mentioned this is another thread these numbers we are all trying to strive for probs have a factor on what readings we are getting in the first place , to much emphasis is put on us all trying to get those magic numbers ,I know with my personal circumstances if i spent all my time stressing and worrying about my numbers i'd never be out of hospital..I know these diabetic health profs give us the numbers we should be aiming for but if for example somebody like myself is consistently not hitting them how the hell are we supposed to feel i am so deflated most of the time it gets on my nerves how i worry over it grrrr.. well anyway I dont usually stoke up on here so thats that rant over


----------



## aymes

Northerner said:


> Having a weird couple of days. After waking to 7.3 yesterday, the day's readings were lunch 5.0, evening 3.9, bedtime 3.8. I had a snack and woke to 5.5 this morning. I went for a run this morning and was 6.4 before and 7.2 afterwards, but then I was 7.5 before lunch, 6 hours after my breakfast! I'd fully expected to be much lower, having dosed normally for breakfast and then having the run I would have expected to be around 4.5. No NR in my system at that time so it must be my basal that is now slightly too low. Sigh!



Ever the perfectionist! I'd say your basal looks pretty much right, even with it spot on you'd probably expect your numbers to fluctuate by up to about 1 unit or so. 
How much running did you do? I'm impressed how steady you can stay, is that without taking on extra carbs/lowering insulin? i suppose it's because you do so much of it, I need to take on the equivalent of about 10g carbs for every half mile or so!


----------



## aymes

steff09 said:


> I dont know about some of you but i mentioned this is another thread these numbers we are all trying to strive for probs have a factor on what readings we are getting in the first place , to much emphasis is put on us all trying to get those magic numbers ,I know with my personal circumstances if i spent all my time stressing and worrying about my numbers i'd never be out of hospital..I know these diabetic health profs give us the numbers we should be aiming for but if for example somebody like myself is consistently not hitting them how the hell are we supposed to feel i am so deflated most of the time it gets on my nerves how i worry over it grrrr.. well anyway I dont usually stoke up on here so thats that rant over



I think that's really important to remember, although we are of course all trying to get the right numbers but there is a lot more involved to, so maybe it's more important to look at how we are in comparison to how we were, focus on how well you've done to get to where you are, rather than beating yourself up if there's still some way to go. For example an hba1c of 7.5 might be fantastic for one person, but a real backwards step for another...

Does remind me, it always really bugs me how meter adverts always show a perfect reading on the screen, 5.8 or similar. Was so happy this morning to see an article on the news showing someone takign a reading and getting 14.8, nice to see a bit of variety!


----------



## Steff

yes aymes i saw that myself they was something on the 1 o clock news i caught it at work was a little girl emily her name i think and her meter gave 14.8 as a reading , as you say nice to see variety


----------



## Northerner

I think Arthur Smith did an article in Balance about the 'perfect' reading they show on all the meter adverts! I know I shouldn't worry, and it's not really that I'm worried, I just like to understand what is happening, and I don't think I have enough experience yet to know that sometimes things go completely gaga - it hasn't happened to me yet! When you're used to waking around 4 then 7 is a 75% increase above 'normal'!

I don't need to eat anything extra on my runs and am rarely more than 1 mmol/l different from start to finish - I think it's just that my body is used to it so doesn't need extra carbs (I've been doing it for nearly 30 years!). Before diabetes I never used to eat during a run even for a 20-miler, but would be ravenous afterwards!

My highest reading since last August has been 14.5 and my lowest 1.9 - I would be horrified to wake at 16+, but that's mainly because it would be completely out of the ordinary for me.


----------



## katie

Northerner said:


> I think Arthur Smith did an article in Balance about the 'perfect' reading they show on all the meter adverts! I know I shouldn't worry, and it's not really that I'm worried, I just like to understand what is happening, and I don't think I have enough experience yet to know that sometimes things go completely gaga - it hasn't happened to me yet! When you're used to waking around 4 then 7 is a 75% increase above 'normal'!
> 
> My highest reading since last August has been 14.5 and my lowest 1.9 - I would be horrified to wake at 16+, but that's mainly because it would be completely out of the ordinary for me.



the thing is northerner, 7 can be normal for someone who hasn't got diabetes. so for you, over 4 shouldn't really be abnormal!  It's great that you monitor everything so tightly so that you can see what's going on, but you really shouldnt worry about those readings at all.

Trust me, im horrified when I wake up to 16!


----------



## Vanessa

steff09 said:


> but if for example somebody like myself is consistently not hitting them how the hell are we supposed to feel i am so deflated most of the time it gets on my nerves how i worry over it grrrr.. well anyway I dont usually stoke up on here so thats that rant over



Steff, just try to remember how well you have been doing and the improvements you have made with precious little face-to-face input.  Personally believe it is important to celebrate the small steps too.  Also - you are so encouraging to others on this site and your posts often make me giggle so thanks

Really has been only in the last 3 months that I have consistently managed to get readings below 7 first thing in the morning.  Before that I would practically leap for joy if I got down to 7!  So 16 months before I began to get my head round exactly what I needed to do plus two lots of meds


----------



## katie

YAY!! Today I have had perfect readings all day!

Of course this involved eating minimum carbs and doing exercise.  I was told I could eat carbs and cover them with insulin, but this obviously doesn't work for me - urgh! So i'll be carrying on with the diet for now.


----------



## runner

katie said:


> YAY!! Today I have had perfect reading all day!
> 
> Of course this involved eating minimum carbs and doing exercise.  I was told I could eat carbs and cover them with insulin, but this obviously doesn't work for me - urgh! So i'll be carrying on with the diet for now.



Brilliant - well done!


----------



## katie

thanks runner


----------



## Steff

well done hun x


----------



## insulinaddict09

katie said:


> YAY!! Today I have had perfect readings all day!
> 
> Of course this involved eating minimum carbs and doing exercise.  I was told I could eat carbs and cover them with insulin, but this obviously doesn't work for me - urgh! So i'll be carrying on with the diet for now.



Hi twin , this is the exact reason that i swerve carbs !!!! my levels go crazy 

if i eat them even if i cover them with insulin ... keep up the good work, 

if you need any help i'll always help you . xx A.M x


----------



## katie

steff09 said:


> well done hun x



thanks steff x



insulinaddict09 said:


> Hi twin , this is the exact reason that i swerve carbs !!!! my levels go crazy
> 
> if i eat them even if i cover them with insulin ... keep up the good work,
> 
> if you need any help i'll always help you . xx A.M x



ahh so i'm not the only one!  I just couldnt get it under control, so im hoping this will help.

thanks, I may need your advice on what to eat after I get bored of salad lol xx


----------



## insulinaddict09

katie said:


> thanks steff x
> 
> 
> 
> ahh so i'm not the only one!  I just couldnt get it under control, so im hoping this will help.
> 
> thanks, I may need your advice on what to eat after I get bored of salad lol xx



Yes no problem Twin, ive been low carbing for ages now and dont really miss

them .. i thought i would as i love bread etc but i have found it really easy.

And apart from a couple of hypos where i just took too much insulin my levels

have been good. Before if i ate a slice of bread my levels would zoom to the 

20's even when it was covered with insulin. it is worth trying to see if it 

works for you and add carbs back in . in small amounts and see if you can 

find a happy medium . If you need any help at all im here or  catch me on 

MSN . Anne-Marie x


----------



## katie

insulinaddict09 said:


> Yes no problem Twin, ive been low carbing for ages now and dont really miss
> 
> them .. i thought i would as i love bread etc but i have found it really easy.
> 
> And apart from a couple of hypos where i just took too much insulin my levels
> 
> have been good. Before if i ate a slice of bread my levels would zoom to the
> 
> 20's even when it was covered with insulin. it is worth trying to see if it
> 
> works for you and add carbs back in . in small amounts and see if you can
> 
> find a happy medium . If you need any help at all im here or  catch me on
> 
> MSN . Anne-Marie x




Thanks for the reassurance, thought I would never get my levels under control urgh.  I think im find with not eating too many carbs during meals, i probably end up binging occasionally, but before I was eating carby meals and binging so it will be better   I'll try to keep up the exercise too, think it's helping.

I'll see you on msn  xx


----------



## Northerner

katie said:


> YAY!! Today I have had perfect readings all day!
> 
> Of course this involved eating minimum carbs and doing exercise.  I was told I could eat carbs and cover them with insulin, but this obviously doesn't work for me - urgh! So i'll be carrying on with the diet for now.



Brilliant katie! Well done! Yayyyy!!!!


----------



## insulinaddict09

katie said:


> Thanks for the reassurance, thought I would never get my levels under control urgh.  I think im find with not eating too many carbs during meals, i probably end up binging occasionally, but before I was eating carby meals and binging so it will be better   I'll try to keep up the exercise too, think it's helping.
> 
> I'll see you on msn  xx



Hi Twin , one thing I did notice when I stopped eating Carbs was that I 

didnt feel as hungry. If I do eat Carbs all I want to do is eat ... constantly!!

I know Carbs are supposed to make you feel fuller for longer but they just 

make me ravenous . Keep up the good work!!!!


----------



## Northerner

Well, today is the day I mark as my 'official' end to my first year of diabetes, as I was discharged on this date after 8 days in hospital and left to my own devices! I had got used to being looked after by all the nurses, and all the endless blood tests, injections and pills, but it hadn't really sunk in that I was now going to have to administer all this myself. The hospital DSN was brilliant though - getting me up to speed on how to set up the pens and do the injections, what levels I should aim for etc. I was on fixed amounts for the first few weeks, and had a few hypos (that was an interesting and novel experience!) as we adjusted the doses down. My biggest problem was that I lost my appetite, so was struggling to eat enough to cover the insulin (didn't know about carb-counting then, and though good, the DSN's were adjusting it every few days rather than for every meal!). The appetite problems were tracked down eventually to some of the drugs I was on.

I feel I've come a long way in the past 12 months. Looking at my readings, my highest this past week has been 8.0 and lowest 2.8, although I've only had three hypos - two on Friday and both probably something to do with the beer festival! I had my first night hypo in weeks last night - a 3.1 - probably due to the fact that I had a late tea and took too much insulin with it, but the insulin hadn't finished circulating by bedtime so I got a 'false' level before bed. I treated it and woke to 5.2 this morning, so I reckon the basal is spot on... for now!


----------



## katie

Northerner said:


> Brilliant katie! Well done! Yayyyy!!!!



Thanks Northe  

(I'm a bit slow, only just these replies when you bumped up the thread )

Well done on your perfect readings hehe, not quite cured yet, but it could still happen 

My readings are still good, I think it's mainly because im doing an hours exercise every day!  I keep having a hypo a day though, which is a bit annoying, but I should be able to sort that out.


----------



## Northerner

katie said:


> Thanks Northe
> 
> (I'm a bit slow, only just these replies when you bumped up the thread )
> 
> Well done on your perfect readings hehe, not quite cured yet, but it could still happen
> 
> My readings are still good, I think it's mainly because im doing an hours exercise every day!  I keep having a hypo a day though, which is a bit annoying, but I should be able to sort that out.



Keep up the good work katie! Pity about the hypos though, but I think they are more likely whilst you're trying to get tight control - eventually you should be able to recognise the situations where you may need less or more insulin etc. Are they bad ones, and are you still getting your warning signs? I used to have far more hypos than I have now, thankfully.


----------



## katie

Northerner said:


> Keep up the good work katie! Pity about the hypos though, but I think they are more likely whilst you're trying to get tight control - eventually you should be able to recognise the situations where you may need less or more insulin etc. Are they bad ones, and are you still getting your warning signs? I used to have far more hypos than I have now, thankfully.



Theyve mostly been just under 4, like 3.8, 3.6, 3.9 and they have been when I was checking before a meal so I didnt notice them.  I notice them if im being active though, or if im any lower, so that's ok   I just keep taking a bit too much insulin because im used to taking more than my ratio, as I kept being high all the time!


----------



## katie

oh dear, random high of 17 today!! I didnt do my exercise yesterday and over slept today so my insulin resistence may have been high after my weetabix  All I had apart from that is a mini milk!!

I'll do my exercise video again in a min and see how it goes tomorrow, tut.


----------



## Northerner

Hope things have improved katie, and that that was a one-off! I've had some odd ups and downs recently, although things seem to have stabilised again. Last Friday my levels were low all day apart from waking - 6.5, 2.9, 3.7 and 4.0 before bed. The following day they were higher than normal - 5.8, 6.0, 8.7, 7.5. Nothing disastrous, I know! I suspect that I had gone 'light' on the insulin in reaction to all the lows of the previous day. My last couple of days have been spot-on though - 4.7, 4.6, 3.8, 7.7, 4.4, 5.0, 4.5 and 8.5 before bed last night. I woke to 4.8 this morning! So, I reckon I've got the basal just right at 9 units and am doing pretty well with my bolus calculations (well, I call them 'calculations', but they're really just guesses on the whole!)


----------



## sofaraway

seems spot on! 

I know you were going to wait a couple of weeks after your appointment to get your A1c done, have you had it done yet?


----------



## Northerner

sofaraway said:


> seems spot on!
> 
> I know you were going to wait a couple of weeks after your appointment to get your A1c done, have you had it done yet?



Not yet, I think I will go next week, or when I can double up with an appointment with my DSN (I get the blood taken at the same hospital, so saves me a trip!)


----------



## katie

Well done on getting the basal right Northerner 



Northerner said:


> Hope things have improved katie, and that that was a one-off!



I'm afraid not! went out on saturday night to my summerball so err got a little drunk. So sunday blood sugars were terrible.  I neglected myself because I was feeling really down too  That also resulted in me not exercising and eating more carbs again so my levels have been rubbish for a few days.  It seems that if I dont exercise the day before, my levels after breakfast shoot up.  I took my usual amount for breakfast and my levels were 18 a couple of hours later 

I'm climbing out of the black hole now though so shall resume the diet tonight!

"oh to be in love, and never fall out again!" 

I felt the need to quote her here  Ok I think 3 coffees has turned me insane...


----------



## Northerner

katie said:


> ...I'm afraid not! went out on saturday night to my summerball so err got a little drunk. So sunday blood sugars were terrible.  I neglected myself because I was feeling really down too  That also resulted in me not exercising and eating more carbs again so my levels have been rubbish for a few days.  It seems that if I dont exercise the day before, my levels after breakfast shoot up.  I took my usual amount for breakfast and my levels were 18 a couple of hours later
> ...



Well, there were exceptional circumstances, so hopefully you will be able to be a good diabetic for a little while now! Exercise seems to have about a 12-hour delay before it affects my levels, but then keeps affecting them for about 40 hours. It's such a cruel thing that, when you're feeling a bit down all you want to do is eat and not worry about your levels, but then it just makes you feel worse! I've also found that alcohol the night before tends to lower my levels the day after - seems it's the other way around with you! 

It is interesting how levels can go so high just from breakfast, it must be something to do with how some people digest certain foods and convert them to glucose. I haven't had a level above 16 since I was diagnosed - in fact, the last time I went into double figures (a 10.7) was on the 7th April! I'm not bragging, just realise how lucky I am!


----------



## katie

Northerner said:


> It's such a cruel thing that, when you're feeling a bit down all you want to do is eat and not worry about your levels, but then it just makes you feel worse! I've also found that alcohol the night before tends to lower my levels the day after - seems it's the other way around with you!



yep it's a vicious circle, you definitely feel worse when you dont do any exercise, grr.

Hehe Alcohol doesnt make me go high the next day... I was so drunk (and remember nothing) that I didnt take my lantus for a start.  Then I slept most of the day sunday because I hadnt slept on saturday night, had a big hypo and had to get up and stuff my face.  I then felt so bad i went to bed again.  Knew id be high but i just waited till dinner time and took novorapid for that without testing THEN went to bed without testing and woke up to 20.  I totally neglected myself because i got upset about something early on sunday and obviously the hangover!

Anyway... im feeling better now and will look after myself again!



Northerner said:


> It is interesting how levels can go so high just from breakfast, it must be something to do with how some people digest certain foods and convert them to glucose. I haven't had a level above 16 since I was diagnosed - in fact, the last time I went into double figures (a 10.7) was on the 7th April! I'm not bragging, just realise how lucky I am!



yep you are very lucky.

I can never get my breakfast dose right for cereal, it seems to be completely random, but the exercise was helping a lot.


----------



## runner

Katie, Northerner,  hope you're both feeling better now.


----------



## katie

thanks runner


----------



## insulinaddict09

AWWW poor Twin , you ok now ? you know where I am if you need to talk ,

Anytime


----------



## katie

I feel much better today thanks twin, I have bad days and good days but im sure i'll get happy soon  xx


----------



## insulinaddict09

katie said:


> I feel much better today thanks twin, I have bad days and good days but im sure i'll get happy soon  xx



Good , I hope it is soon then  we all need some happy times lol , if all else 

fails get drunk lol  he he he he


----------



## katie

hehe yeah we do indeed! that's my motto too, not sure it worked out on saturday, but it usually does!


----------



## insulinaddict09

katie said:


> hehe yeah we do indeed! that's my motto too, not sure it worked out on saturday, but it usually does!



Top motto twin , he he he he ..i might adopt that theory too lol


----------



## Northerner

Hmmm...a couple of slight glitches today. I was 3.0 before my evening meal and 3.4 before bed. I don't think it's a basal problem, just too much novorapid - but thought I'd been under rather than over. The one before tea may have been because I decided to mow the lawn and should probably have backed that up with a hobnob or something! The other worrying thing is that I had no symptoms for either of the hypos, so maybe I'm losing my hypo-awareness - although they were both 'slow' hypos and not a rapid fall. Hey ho!


----------



## insulinaddict09

Northerner said:


> Hmmm...a couple of slight glitches today. I was 3.0 before my evening meal and 3.4 before bed. I don't think it's a basal problem, just too much novorapid - but thought I'd been under rather than over. The one before tea may have been because I decided to mow the lawn and should probably have backed that up with a hobnob or something! The other worrying thing is that I had no symptoms for either of the hypos, so maybe I'm losing my hypo-awareness - although they were both 'slow' hypos and not a rapid fall. Hey ho!



mmm worrying .. i have good hypo awareness and know as soon as i go below 4 , but twice this week and once a few weeks ago i have had "LOWS " and not felt them coming on until the last minute.


----------



## runner

Northerner said:


> Hmmm...a couple of slight glitches today. I was 3.0 before my evening meal and 3.4 before bed. I don't think it's a basal problem, just too much novorapid - but thought I'd been under rather than over. The one before tea may have been because I decided to mow the lawn and should probably have backed that up with a hobnob or something! The other worrying thing is that I had no symptoms for either of the hypos, so maybe I'm losing my hypo-awareness - although they were both 'slow' hypos and not a rapid fall. Hey ho!


Its strange how sometimes you can get a 5 and feel a hypo and onother time its 3.  Hope you're not loosing awareness - probably, as you say they were slow, so not so noticeable.

I'm so sorry, but I was in hysterics when I read " I decided to mow the lawn and should probably have backed that up with a hobnob or something!"  when you take it out of context, its just so surreal!

Hope things go better tomorrow for you.


----------



## Steff

im guessing they is also hyperawareness as well? do we pick this up ourselves as we learn to cope with diabetes are is they courses etc etc ??


----------



## Northerner

steff09 said:


> im guessing they is also hyperawareness as well? do we pick this up ourselves as we learn to cope with diabetes are is they courses etc etc ??



I'm not so sure about hyper-awareness, steff. I think some people do pick up on the fact that their levels are high, like feeling especially tired or unwell, but I think that hypo symptoms are generally much easier to spot - trembling, sweating, light-headedness etc. I can't speak personally, because I very rarely go above 10.

I woke this morning to 3.9, which is OK. I'm going to try and take less insulin with my food today and see if I can keep my levels raised a bit. I'd rather not, because I'm thinking of going for my HbA1c next week and I don't really want to raise that by deliberately raising my levels now as that's not going to be a fair indication of my average levels recently. Well, it is, but it isn't, if you see what I mean!


----------



## insulinaddict09

Northerner said:


> I'm not so sure about hyper-awareness, steff. I think some people do pick up on the fact that their levels are high, like feeling especially tired or unwell, but I think that hypo symptoms are generally much easier to spot - trembling, sweating, light-headedness etc. I can't speak personally, because I very rarely go above 10.
> 
> I woke this morning to 3.9, which is OK. I'm going to try and take less insulin with my food today and see if I can keep my levels raised a bit. I'd rather not, because I'm thinking of going for my HbA1c next week and I don't really want to raise that by deliberately raising my levels now as that's not going to be a fair indication of my average levels recently. Well, it is, but it isn't, if you see what I mean!



A 3.9 ok ??? , surely that is still too low  What levels do you aim to  achieve during a " good " day ? I try to stay below 10 at the moment , 
which sounds high but to me it is alot lower than my usual HIGH numbers .I had a morning blood of 7.5 and I am pleased with that as I have been having 18's and other silly numbers first thing.


----------



## Northerner

insulinaddict09 said:


> A 3.9 ok ??? , surely that is still too low  What levels do you aim to  achieve during a " good " day ? I try to stay below 10 at the moment ,
> which sounds high but to me it is alot lower than my usual HIGH numbers .I had a morning blood of 7.5 and I am pleased with that as I have been having 18's and other silly numbers first thing.



Well, 3.9 is OK because they say to be between 4 and 7, so given that meters aren't absolutely accurate it could be slightly more or slightly less. 'Normies' have fasting levels down to 3.5, so there's not really any physiological reason you need to worry about anything down to that level, just that they give you 4.0 to aim for so there's a bit of 'cushioning' there for us diabetics. My meter only calls <3.5 a hypo.

I'm sorry to hear of the difficulties you are having - those kinds of levels would really worry me, as I'm sure they do you. You seem to have had a very poor deal treatment and control-wise over the years, especially given the fact that others in your family are Type1 - you'd think the doctors would have clarified your type much earlier on. Do your relations have similar problems with control? I would have thought you would be an ideal candidate for a pump!


----------



## Northerner

runner said:


> ...I'm so sorry, but I was in hysterics when I read " I decided to mow the lawn and should probably have backed that up with a hobnob or something!"  when you take it out of context, its just so surreal!
> 
> Hope things go better tomorrow for you.



It's not something you'd hear during the normal course of a day is it?!! Might be a poem in that...!


----------



## insulinaddict09

Northerner said:


> It's not something you'd hear during the normal course of a day is it?!! Might be a peom in that...!



Oh yes I think we need another poem !! its been ages since the last one !!


----------



## insulinaddict09

Northerner said:


> Well, 3.9 is OK because they say to be between 4 and 7, so given that meters aren't absolutely accurate it could be slightly more or slightly less. 'Normies' have fasting levels down to 3.5, so there's not really any physiological reason you need to worry about anything down to that level, just that they give you 4.0 to aim for so there's a bit of 'cushioning' there for us diabetics. My meter only calls <3.5 a hypo.
> 
> I'm sorry to hear of the difficulties you are having - those kinds of levels would really worry me, as I'm sure they do you. You seem to have had a very poor deal treatment and control-wise over the years, especially given the fact that others in your family are Type1 - you'd think the doctors would have clarified your type much earlier on. Do your relations have similar problems with control? I would have thought you would be an ideal candidate for a pump!





Ewww No , I dont really like the idea of a pump for me personally. I am quite happy with MDI , If I can just sort out my levels and try and stay in some sort of range and then begin to lower them I will be happy. My brother has been type 1 for over 20years and has very tight control , pretty much non diabetic levels !!! but he has suffered a lot of serious hypos  because of that and did go hypo unaware  , I think every Paramedic in the area knows him on a first name basis now!! He has managed to re-set himself and now is hypo aware again phew!!.  I think All the others have pretty good control with the odd blip , its just me , the Bad Diabetic who is all over the place at the moment !!! ha ha But they have had it for years and I am only a Newbie , ive only been on Insulin since the begining of 2008. I am going to book for a 
Hba1c when I go to the doctors for my script so [ yeah thanks Katie ] I will have some idea if it has changed from the 20 something the last one was


----------



## Steff

Northerner said:


> I'm not so sure about hyper-awareness, steff. I think some people do pick up on the fact that their levels are high, like feeling especially tired or unwell, but I think that hypo symptoms are generally much easier to spot - trembling, sweating, light-headedness etc. I can't speak personally, because I very rarely go above 10.
> 
> I woke this morning to 3.9, which is OK. I'm going to try and take less insulin with my food today and see if I can keep my levels raised a bit. I'd rather not, because I'm thinking of going for my HbA1c next week and I don't really want to raise that by deliberately raising my levels now as that's not going to be a fair indication of my average levels recently. Well, it is, but it isn't, if you see what I mean!



yes i know i can tell i assumed you had courses for things like that or books but like you say i get all thise symptoms and now when im hypering so i guess im already aware


----------



## runner

Northerner said:


> It's not something you'd hear during the normal course of a day is it?!! Might be a poem in that...!



Definitely, bring it on!

I would be concerned still at 3.9, but I guess its how you feel at that level - I would be having hypo symptoms for sure.

Insulinaddict - I guess it's still early days and hopefully it will have come down from 20 - do you have software for your meter so you can look at averages and peaks etc?


----------



## bev

Hi Anne Marie,

I am a bit confused about why your levels are high? If your eating very low carbs or none at all - how can your levels be so high? I am not being critical here - i am just confused (blonde!). As Dodger says , if you dont put carbs in - you dont get high levels. What sort of units of insulin are you having with your food? Is your hba1c 20 or did you mean your levels are generally in the 20's? If your waking levels arent within range then perhaps you need to start there and either increase it or split the dose - is it running out before the 24 hours? Alex's are and last night i have split his levemir to see if that gives a more rounded 24 hours! Bev


----------



## aymes

bev said:


> If your eating very low carbs or none at all - how can your levels be so high? I am not being critical here - i am just confused (blonde!). As Dodger says , if you dont put carbs in - you dont get high levels.



I think there is an exception to that though surely, if your basal insulin is wrong then you could have high levels regardless of what you're eating due to the glucose being given out by your liver...


----------



## bev

I had thought about that too - but when at the jdrf day - i asked this very question about how often the liver will kick out glucose. We were told that at night the liver will kick out glucose - but - it wont keep doing this as its reserves run out and it takes awhile to get them back up - by which time the liver 'forgets' as it just gets used to the low levels. People in honeymoon are more able to do this - but after 5 years or so this ability is lost or at least its not as efficient. Its all very confusing isnt it?Bev


----------



## sofaraway

Aymes I agree with you, if the basal insulin is too low then the blood sugar is going to rise regardless of how many carbs you eat. I think it's probably more true to say that in people with type 2 that if you don't eat carbs the blood sugar is less likely to rise because of having insulin producation.

Bev are you talking about the Somogyi effect?


----------



## bev

Hi Nikki, yes thats what its called - i couldnt remember the name!Bev


----------



## runner

Don't forget the carbs in the sweet treats and dried fruit - they can send my sugars way high.


----------



## insulinaddict09

bev said:


> Hi Anne Marie,
> 
> I am a bit confused about why your levels are high? If your eating very low carbs or none at all - how can your levels be so high? I am not being critical here - i am just confused (blonde!). As Dodger says , if you dont put carbs in - you dont get high levels. What sort of units of insulin are you having with your food? Is your hba1c 20 or did you mean your levels are generally in the 20's? If your waking levels arent within range then perhaps you need to start there and either increase it or split the dose - is it running out before the 24 hours? Alex's are and last night i have split his levemir to see if that gives a more rounded 24 hours! Bev



hi bev sorry for the delay , ive only just come back on , my last hba1c was in 2008 when i had dka , i have not has one since . I think my problem at the moment is my basal is wrong , i have recently split the levemir dose as it did only last 18 hours . i also need to sort out my fast acting as i do just tend to guess my dosage  most of the time that works but if i over estimate then its a rapid drop and hypo followed by a high and a correction .
when i actually do things correctly my range is alot better and i have gone from never being out of the top 20's [ for 6 years ] to being mainly 10's . i am getting there slowly ang the low carbing is so much better for me and the way i like to eat. my bloods were 7.4 this morning wooooo .


----------



## insulinaddict09

runner said:


> Don't forget the carbs in the sweet treats and dried fruit - they can send my sugars way high.



exactly , carbs are sneaky blighters , they even hide in lettuce !!! how fair is that !!!!!


----------



## Northerner

Northerner said:


> I woke this morning to 3.9, which is OK. I'm going to try and take less insulin with my food today and see if I can keep my levels raised a bit. I'd rather not, because I'm thinking of going for my HbA1c next week and I don't really want to raise that by deliberately raising my levels now as that's not going to be a fair indication of my average levels recently. Well, it is, but it isn't, if you see what I mean!



Well, things went OK yesterday, with 5.6 pre-lunch, 4.3 pre-tea and 5.5 pre-bed. But today I seem to have been going low again despite dropping the NR a bit. I was 5.2 waking, then 3.7 before lunch and 3.3 before tea. No symptoms, so I guess I'm getting a few too many of those lows and my body/brain have adapated - the problem with that being, of course, that my symptoms might only kick in when I drop really low.

Tomorrow will be an odd day as I'm off to a wedding - drinks+canap?s after ceremony, wedding breakfast around 2:45, evening buffet. Not my normal day or eating pattern at all, nor my usual food. The bride has thankfully provided me with an early copy of the menu and the fillings of the canap?s so I can have some idea in advance of the insulin I might need to cover it all, but it's days like tomorrow where I would really welcome a pump so I could be a bit more spontaneous about my eating and drinking, and no injections to worry about! Plus, do I need to worry about dropping low, I wonder? I hate having to carry stuff around with me - normally that would just be a camera, but this time I'll need both pens, needles, meter gubbins etc., plus a bag of jelly babies ot be on the safe side. I suspect I'll end up running quite high levels (for me), but it's only one day and I intend to enjoy it!


----------



## bev

Northerner, enjoy yourself and let your hair down for one day! Your always within range - so one day wont hurt! Would you ever consider a pump? I havent heard you mention one before so i assumed you didnt like the idea. Bev


----------



## insulinaddict09

Northerner said:


> Well, things went OK yesterday, with 5.6 pre-lunch, 4.3 pre-tea and 5.5 pre-bed. But today I seem to have been going low again despite dropping the NR a bit. I was 5.2 waking, then 3.7 before lunch and 3.3 before tea. No symptoms, so I guess I'm getting a few too many of those lows and my body/brain have adapated - the problem with that being, of course, that my symptoms might only kick in when I drop really low.
> 
> Tomorrow will be an odd day as I'm off to a wedding - drinks+canap?s after ceremony, wedding breakfast around 2:45, evening buffet. Not my normal day or eating pattern at all, nor my usual food. The bride has thankfully provided me with an early copy of the menu and the fillings of the canap?s so I can have some idea in advance of the insulin I might need to cover it all, but it's days like tomorrow where I would really welcome a pump so I could be a bit more spontaneous about my eating and drinking, and no injections to worry about! Plus, do I need to worry about dropping low, I wonder? I hate having to carry stuff around with me - normally that would just be a camera, but this time I'll need both pens, needles, meter gubbins etc., plus a bag of jelly babies ot be on the safe side. I suspect I'll end up running quite high levels (for me), but it's only one day and I intend to enjoy it!





Have a lovely time and dont forget to enjoy yourself !!! eat drink and be merry !! you can always correct later on if you are out of your comfort zone with regards to your levels .


----------



## Northerner

bev said:


> Northerner, enjoy yourself and let your hair down for one day! Your always within range - so one day wont hurt! Would you ever consider a pump? I havent heard you mention one before so i assumed you didnt like the idea. Bev



My enthusiasm for a pump is growing, as I read Patricia's thread about it. They wouldn't give me one though, as my control is too good on MDI. Yes, I know that that shouldn't come into it, but the budgets are limited and I'm sure there are many people ahead of me who are finding control far more difficult and are more deserving.


----------



## Northerner

insulinaddict09 said:


> Have a lovely time and dont forget to enjoy yourself !!! eat drink and be merry !! you can always correct later on if you are out of your comfort zone with regards to your levels .



Thanks anne-marie! I'll have to wear a suit too - ugh! I'm such a jeans, t-shirt and trainers person!


----------



## runner

Have a great time and don't worry too much about your levels if they go too high.  You can always do a Phil Collins and wear a t-shirt and trainers with the suit! - Not!  I'm going to a wedding next weekend and will get my legs out and actually don a dress or skirt and put the old jeans away (if I can find one of those body-shaper things to hold everything in) - that'll shock-em!


----------



## Northerner

runner said:


> Have a great time and don't worry too much about your levels if they go too high.  You can always do a Phil Collins and wear a t-shirt and trainers with the suit! - Not!  I'm going to a wedding next weekend and will get my legs out and actually don a dress or skirt and put the old jeans away (if I can find one of those body-shaper things to hold everything in) - that'll shock-em!



The dress or skirt was an option, but I didn't want to upstage the bride...

I was 3.7 before bed last night, grrr!!! I had a slice of bread and peanut butter and a couple of JBs and woke to 4.9 this morning. I think that I am staying pretty steady through the night now, which is a relief. Looking back on a lot of my earlier posts here, many of them were about night hypos, but fingers crossed I have overcome that problem - for the time being anyway!


----------



## insulinaddict09

Northerner said:


> Thanks anne-marie! I'll have to wear a suit too - ugh! I'm such a jeans, t-shirt and trainers person!



Woooo a suit !!!!! you''ll have to post a pic so we can see  , well I dont think they would be best pleased if you did turn up in jeans and t-shirt , but how funny if you did !!! ha ha the faces would be a picture!! Have a great time !!! We will try and behave while you are gone  well I will anyway, I cant vouch for those reprobates though .


----------



## runner

Northerner said:


> The dress or skirt was an option, but I didn't want to upstage the bride...


Ha ha, wouldn't surprise me if your legs are sexier than mine, even if (hopefully) hairier!

glad the night-time hypos have dissapeared.


----------



## katie

Northerner said:


> and a couple of JBs



Jim Beams? That won't help Northe.


----------



## Northerner

Well, the wedding all went off well -a wonderful day! It all took place in a beautiful medieval hall and its grounds, the bride was utterly gorgeous, the speeches were funny and the company was great - met up with a lot of people that I've lost touch with over the past couple of years.

It was an awkward sort of day for a diabetic on MDI. I had a latish breakfast as I knew we wouldn't be sitting down to the wedding breakfast until around 3 pm, even so that was quite a while after my breakfast at 9:30. There was wine and canap?s after the ceremony at around 1:30, but I didn't bolus for that - it would have been far too fiddly, and they weren't all served at once, but rather gradually introduced over the next hour or so. As a consequence (most probably the duck spring rolls!), I was quite high when I sat down to the meal. I didn't know everyone at the table, but I discussed what had happened the previous year and about the Stockholm Marathon etc. A couple of them knew people that had recently been diagnosed and they knew a little, but asked me to explain the difference between Type 1 and 2.

Then, when the food was served I asked the people if they minded me injecting at the table. They didn't mind, but thanked me for my consideration and just let me get on with it, so that was good - it would have been a bit of a disruption to leave the table and dining hall to go and do it.

After the meal there was tea and cake. I had the tea without sugar and saved the cake - this was around 5:15pm. At around 7:30 the evening do started, and the buffet came out at around 8:15. I was around 11.5 mmol/l. I didn't have a lot of carbs on my plate - mostly quiche, salad and cold meats, so took quite a small bolus. Plus, of course, I was drinking beer. I took my basal at the normal time - around 10:30. I got home at around 1:30 am and was 9.0, went to bed about an hour later and tested again - I was 7.0. I woke up to 6.9 this morning.

So, for me, I was above my range all day, but my highest was 13.5, so I don't think I did too badly, and it was only one day! I should get back on track today!


----------



## insulinaddict09

Northerner said:


> Well, the wedding all went off well -a wonderful day! It all took place in a beautiful medieval hall and its grounds, the bride was utterly gorgeous, the speeches were funny and the company was great - met up with a lot of people that I've lost touch with over the past couple of years.
> 
> It was an awkward sort of day for a diabetic on MDI. I had a latish breakfast as I knew we wouldn't be sitting down to the wedding breakfast until around 3 pm, even so that was quite a while after my breakfast at 9:30. There was wine and canap?s after the ceremony at around 1:30, but I didn't bolus for that - it would have been far too fiddly, and they weren't all served at once, but rather gradually introduced over the next hour or so. As a consequence (most probably the duck spring rolls!), I was quite high when I sat down to the meal. I didn't know everyone at the table, but I discussed what had happened the previous year and about the Stockholm Marathon etc. A couple of them knew people that had recently been diagnosed and they knew a little, but asked me to explain the difference between Type 1 and 2.
> 
> Then, when the food was served I asked the people if they minded me injecting at the table. They didn't mind, but thanked me for my consideration and just let me get on with it, so that was good - it would have been a bit of a disruption to leave the table and dining hall to go and do it.
> 
> After the meal there was tea and cake. I had the tea without sugar and saved the cake - this was around 5:15pm. At around 7:30 the evening do started, and the buffet came out at around 8:15. I was around 11.5 mmol/l. I didn't have a lot of carbs on my plate - mostly quiche, salad and cold meats, so took quite a small bolus. Plus, of course, I was drinking beer. I took my basal at the normal time - around 10:30. I got home at around 1:30 am and was 9.0, went to bed about an hour later and tested again - I was 7.0. I woke up to 6.9 this morning.
> 
> So, for me, I was above my range all day, but my highest was 13.5, so I don't think I did too badly, and it was only one day! I should get back on track today!





Well done for surviving what could have been a diabetic disaster day !! those levels are good considering all the sitting around and indulgence . Hey where are the pics of you in a suit then young man??? post them now!!!!


----------



## Northerner

insulinaddict09 said:


> Well done for surviving what could have been a diabetic disaster day !! those levels are good considering all the sitting around and indulgence . Hey where are the pics of you in a suit then young man??? post them now!!!!



If you insist...


----------



## insulinaddict09

Northerner said:


> If you insist...



Hey you look good in a suit !! Very distinguished    woooo


----------



## katie

Very nice photo northerner  is that your sister??

Well done on keeping the levels below 15


----------



## Northerner

katie said:


> Very nice photo northerner  is that your sister??
> 
> Well done on keeping the levels below 15



Yes it is katie, how did you guess? Doesn't she look great? She's a grandmother 52 years old!


----------



## katie

Northerner said:


> Yes it is katie, how did you guess? Doesn't she look great? She's a grandmother 52 years old!



Yes, you both look very good for your age   I could tell because you have similar features hehe.


----------



## runner

My DSN would have been perfectly happy with your readings - well done!  Hope I do as well as you next weekend when i goto my neice's wedding 'up north'  next weekend.  You do look alike (your sister and you), but I still think you would have cut a dash in a dress!


----------



## Northerner

runner said:


> My DSN would have been perfectly happy with your readings - well done!  Hope I do as well as you next weekend when i goto my neice's wedding 'up north'  next weekend.  You do look alike (your sister and you), but I still think you would have cut a dash in a dress!



Didn't want to upstage the sibling! Whereabouts oop north are you going? Say 'Sithe by gum, tha gurt gormless clart 'eead' to them for me!'


----------



## bev

Northerner,
You and your sister look great! Obviously have good genes! Hope you had a nice day and enjoyed yourself.Bev


----------



## runner

Northerner said:


> Didn't want to upstage the sibling! Whereabouts oop north are you going? Say 'Sithe by gum, tha gurt gormless clart 'eead' to them for me!'



Leeds, but don't worry, I've got my passport.  Will they turn round and thump me if I say that to them?


----------



## Northerner

runner said:


> Leeds, but don't worry, I've got my passport.  Will they turn round and thump me if I say that to them?



Nay lass, they'll gi' thee a reight warm welcome!


----------



## katie

YAY! I'm so happy! hehe.  A month into my 'diet' and ive lost 2lb (was hoping for a bit more), but... Ive lost 2 inches from my waist, woo! I'd much rather lose inches than pounds hehe.

Northerner, have you managed to get you readings up a bit more yet? After being very fed up yesterday...


----------



## Northerner

katie said:


> YAY! I'm so happy! hehe.  A month into my 'diet' and ive lost 2lb (was hoping for a bit more), but... Ive lost 2 inches from my waist, woo! I'd much rather lose inches than pounds hehe.
> 
> Northerner, have you managed to get you readings up a bit more yet? After being very fed up yesterday...



I've tried really hard today to get over my psychological fear of high numbers and keep my insulin doses below what I first think I need - I normally give myself too much rather than too little, hence the hypos. 

As a result, I woke to 5.2, lunch - 4.9, Evening meal - 3.9 (close! probably this morning's run having more of an effect, but if I hadn't reduced my insulin would have been a major hypo). I was 5.5 2 hours after evening meal, so might need a bedtime snack.

And woo! katie on losing those inches! You're right too - the pounds aren't important if you're looking good!


----------



## katie

Has your ratio changed or are you just reducing your rapid insulin by experience?

when you are at 4.9 (for example) what happens if you decide to do some unplanned exercise like go to tesco to do some shopping? does it stay at that level or do you eat something before you go?

Thanks, I just feel better for it really.  The extra inches make me feel really unhealthy which I hate because ive always been quite healthy (until diabetes!) so glad im losing them.


----------



## Northerner

katie said:


> Has your ratio changed or are you just reducing your rapid insulin by experience?
> 
> when you are at 4.9 (for example) what happens if you decide to do some unplanned exercise like go to tesco to do some shopping? does it stay at that level or do you eat something before you go?
> 
> Thanks, I just feel better for it really.  The extra inches make me feel really unhealthy which I hate because ive always been quite healthy (until diabetes!) so glad im losing them.



It's mostly guesswork! Over the past couple of days though I have had to start reducing again. Yesterday I was 3.2 before lunch (after already reducing my bolus for breakfast), so was really measly with my lunchtime dose - and then I was 3.3 before evening meal! I took what I thought was a very reduced dose and ate a huge bowl of spag bol - but obviously got it right as I was 6.8 before bed. Woke this morning to 4.4, which is a bit on the low side, so considering lowering my lantus by a further unit (thank goodness I got a 1-unit pen!). That would put me on 8 lantus after being on 20 at the beginning of April - maybe the cure's back on!

In answer to your question, I'd only eat something at 4.9 if I was, say, going out for a 3-5 mile run, and then just to be on the safe side as my levels would probably stay the same without it. Example: I did 5 miles this morning, was 7.7 before (2hrs after breakfast), and 7.6 when I got back, so no discernible effect! Shopping doesn't take much effort - I'm a bloke!

Regarding weight - I quite liked it when I lost a lot of weight but only when it was at a healthy level, I got very underweight at one point (8st 10). Now, I've gone the opposite way a bit. Despite my running, I don't do much upper body stuff, so feeling a bit flabby there (currently 10st 11). Would ideally be about 10st 7, but toned and not flabby!


----------



## katie

wow that is a mad decrease in insulin! So not fair! hehe.  Mine increased and I had to go from 10 units of lantus to 20 units and my ration became 2:10g - grr   You are so lucky with those levels not going crazy with exercise too.



> Regarding weight - I quite liked it when I lost a lot of weight but only when it was at a healthy level, I got very underweight at one point (8st 10). Now, I've gone the opposite way a bit. Despite my running, I don't do much upper body stuff, so feeling a bit flabby there (currently 10st 11). Would ideally be about 10st 7, but toned and not flabby!



Well this is defintely a healthy level, only 2 pounds in a month hehe - think the inch loss is mainly because ive been doing lots of crunches so everything has tightened up.

Can I ask how tall you are northerner? In return I will tell you a secret.


----------



## Northerner

katie said:


> ...Can I ask how tall you are northerner? In return I will tell you a secret.



I reach the dizzying heights of 5ft 9in! In theiry I could weigh up to 12st and still be 'normal' BMI, but I only once came close to that and looked so flabby and bloated I hardly recognised myself! At diagnosis I was 8st 4, and probably didn't realise how dreadful I looked, but friends have recently told me how shocked they were when they visited me in hospital.

Ooh! What's your secret? You're not Britain's tallest woman are you?


----------



## katie

Northerner said:


> I reach the dizzying heights of 5ft 9in! In theiry I could weigh up to 12st and still be 'normal' BMI, but I only once came close to that and looked so flabby and bloated I hardly recognised myself! At diagnosis I was 8st 4, and probably didn't realise how dreadful I looked, but friends have recently told me how shocked they were when they visited me in hospital.
> 
> Ooh! What's your secret? You're not Britain's tallest woman are you?



You must have quite a small frame if you looked flabby at 12st!
Wow you must have looked frail at 8st 4 - Wish I was that light, but I would look anorexic because im not petite hehe.

Oh no, now ive built it up and the secret is rubbish!  Im not the tallest woman in Britain, thank god.  I'm nealry 5'8" and I hate even being that tall hehe, I want to be short!

My secret is that I weigh more than you.  Ok you probably could have guessed but nevermind  Don't tell anyone!!


----------



## Northerner

katie said:


> You must have quite a small frame if you looked flabby at 12st!
> Wow you must have looked frail at 8st 4 - Wish I was that light, but I would look anorexic because im not petite hehe.
> 
> Oh no, now ive built it up and the secret is rubbish!  Im not the tallest woman in Britain, thank god.  I'm nealry 5'8" and I hate even being that tall hehe, I want to be short!
> 
> My secret is that I weigh more than you.  Ok you probably could have guessed but nevermind  Don't tell anyone!!



hehehe! Most people my height (or often smaller!) seem to weigh more than me! When I was your age I was actually 8st 5 (got officially weighed at a medical for a job). The doctor told me I was 3st underweight, but considering I was happily running marathons at the time, didn't think it was a problem. After that I put on about a stone a decade. I really was dreadfully skinny though, even though I had a huge appetite and drank for England in my student days (and beyond!). I've got an awful picture somewhere that I might dig out to frighten everyone!

My niece is 5'10'', although her sister is about 5'4" - they're both gorgeous though!


----------



## katie

Northerner said:


> hehehe! Most people my height (or often smaller!) seem to weigh more than me! When I was your age I was actually 8st 5 (got officially weighed at a medical for a job). The doctor told me I was 3st underweight, but considering I was happily running marathons at the time, didn't think it was a problem. After that I put on about a stone a decade. I really was dreadfully skinny though, even though I had a huge appetite and drank for England in my student days (and beyond!). I've got an awful picture somewhere that I might dig out to frighten everyone!
> 
> My niece is 5'10'', although her sister is about 5'4" - they're both gorgeous though!



I know a couple of people like you, who weigh about 8.5st and look skinny but not unhealthy and I know people who are 12st who look very healthy too 

But i'm a girl and should at least weight the same, grr! hehe, i'm working on it.  I bet your 5'10 niece doesn't weigh as much as me   People dont believe me when I say I could do with losing 2 stone though, not sure where im keeping all of it lol.


----------



## katie

Northerner said:


> In theiry I could weigh up to 12st and still be 'normal' BMI, but I only once came close to that and looked so flabby and bloated I hardly recognised myself!



Oh yes and this is why I decided I really want to lose weight btw.  My BMI is slightly high - 25.5.  As ive always been quite sporty and healthy this shocked me a bit as I dont think I should be above my recommended BMI especially at this age.  I want to be more in the middle range - not too skinny and not too big


----------



## Northerner

Hmm...looks like the 'cure' might be back on! I've been reducing my bolus insulin for the past couple of days, but still getting hypos. I was 3.3 before lunch, despite reducing my insulin for the same breakfast as I had yesterday. Then, I have just tested 3 hours after lunch because I was feeling a bit low - 3.0!

With what I have planned for tea, my total insulin today will be 29 units. A few days ago, on a similar food intake I was injecting 38 units. A couple of months ago I was injecting 60 units! So, I guess I'm only half cured! I will be interested to see what my HbA1c is in the next couple of weeks, as I have generally been on the low side with all the insulin reductions, plus the fact that my basal is at a much better level means I can confidently go to bed much closer to my range than I used to (i.e. can go to bed at 6.5, no snack, and wake at around 5.x - before I was going to bed at 9-11 or eating a snack to keep my levels high)


----------



## AmandaB

Northerner and Katie is this a private converstaion or can anyone join in? Ha ha!
Northerner, I was interested ot read your bgs don't come down much after a run. I've been finding just the same now I've started cycling again (must be the Tour de France soon, spurring me on!). Like you I've also been suffereing several lows at no particular time. I'm ust wondering if this might be what's causing your lows at other times, I have heard excercise can bring your bgs lown some time later. 
Have to say I still find it all pretty random, even after 40 years of type 1, and no consultant, DSN or GP has ever managed to stop my bgs swinging around.
I'm doing about 40 mins (that's minutes NOT miles!!) each session so far, how long does it take to do your runs?
Glad to hear its not just me that finds exercise has no immediate effect.


----------



## Northerner

AmandaB said:


> Northerner and Katie is this a private converstaion or can anyone join in? Ha ha!
> Northerner, I was interested ot read your bgs don't come down much after a run. I've been finding just the same now I've started cycling again (must be the Tour de France soon, spurring me on!). Like you I've also been suffereing several lows at no particular time. I'm ust wondering if this might be what's causing your lows at other times, I have heard excercise can bring your bgs lown some time later.
> Have to say I still find it all pretty random, even after 40 years of type 1, and no consultant, DSN or GP has ever managed to stop my bgs swinging around.
> I'm doing about 40 mins (that's minutes NOT miles!!) each session so far, how long does it take to do your runs?
> Glad to hear its not just me that finds exercise has no immediate effect.



Hi Amanda! Yes, I have found that my levels are pretty stable throughout a run, but will then affect my levels for the next 40 hours or so, with me being more sensitive to insulin. My runs vary between 30mins and an hour at the moment. I read that, once your body becomes used to a certain level of exercise, your BG will stay stable - it's only when you increase the intensity or duration that it'll start to fall. This is also true in my case - when I stepped up to 5 miles from 3 miles my BG would drop by a couple of mmol/l, but once I got used to it they started to stay stable again.

Having only been diagnosed just over a year, everything is still relatively new to me and I've only just got back up to my pre-diagnosis weight, so am starting to think that I'm returning to my body's 'true' levels of insulin requirements. I'm going to arrange an appointment with my DSN soon so I can discuss the huge adjustments I've made and see what she says. Some people have suggested it might be partly a seasonal thing, but as this is my first real summer as a type 1 I won't know for a while yet how much is down to that. Well done with the cycling BTW - I can't even ride a bike!


----------



## katie

AmandaB said:


> Northerner and Katie is this a private converstaion or can anyone join in? Ha ha!



Sorry, was kinda using this as a bit of a diary before the low carb thread


----------



## Northerner

katie said:


> Sorry, was kinda using this as a bit of a diary before the low carb thread



Tsk! And I thought it was because of my scintillating wit and repartee!


----------



## katie

Northerner said:


> Tsk! And I thought it was because of my scintillating wit and repartee!



Well that is exactly why I chose your thread Northe.  Hope you don't feel used.


----------



## Northerner

katie said:


> Well that is exactly why I chose your thread Northe.  Hope you don't feel used.



Story of my life, katie, story of my life!


----------



## AmandaB

Oh dear, I apolgise for intruding on your conversation again!!!!! 
I hadn't heard bgs get used to excercise and it can't be that in my case as I've only been back on the bike for two weeks after nearly a year!! Interesting to hear your doing about the same length sessions as me.

Back to you Katie.......


----------



## Northerner

AmandaB said:


> Oh dear, I apolgise for intruding on your conversation again!!!!!
> I hadn't heard bgs get used to excercise and it can't be that in my case as I've only been back on the bike for two weeks after nearly a year!! Interesting to hear your doing about the same length sessions as me.
> 
> Back to you Katie.......



hehe! No problems Amanda, the more the merrier! Here's something I wrote a while ago about this, might explain it a bit more!



Northerner said:


> I was a marathon runner for 25 years before being diagnosed Type 1 last year - a week before I was due to run the Stockholm marathon! Since  then I've been trying to get back to fitness and also getting used to balancing my blood sugars whilst exercising. It's a tricky business, and there is a lot of trial and error involved. Basically, exercise will make the body use insulin more efficiently, so you'll probably need less with your meals (or more food) if you're planning to exercise. The 'efficiency' can last for some time afterwards too - even into the following day, as your body replenishes its stores of glycogen in the cells and the liver.
> 
> Conversely, if you stop regular exercise for a few days, your insulin sensitivity will go back to those pre-exercise levels, so your BG will be at higher levels. An added complication is the type and intensity of exercise - high intensity can cause the release of stress hormones that will increase BG levels even though you are exercising - they may quickly fall later so you need to watch out for hypos. As you get used to a certain level of exercise, your body's energy requirements will be lower, so you won't 'use up' the glucose in your blood as quickly. As an example, the first few times I run 5 miles after being used to running only 3, my body will have fairly high requirements and my BG will likely dip. However, after a while 5 miles will be well within my capabilities so my BG will hardly change from start to finish.
> 
> Unfortunately, there are no hard and fast rules and everyone is different to some degree. I'd recommend 'The Diabetic Athlete' for a good explanation of the science behind it all.


----------



## katie

AmandaB said:


> Oh dear, I apolgise for intruding on your conversation again!!!!!
> I hadn't heard bgs get used to excercise and it can't be that in my case as I've only been back on the bike for two weeks after nearly a year!! Interesting to hear your doing about the same length sessions as me.
> 
> Back to you Katie.......



Hi Amanda 

I went to a talk about exercise and diabetes and the woman who gave it does ALOT of exercise every day.  When she does certain exercise at certain times of the day, it has no instant affect on her levels (running in the morning, before breakfast).  But other exercise such as swimming makes her levels drop so every few lengths she eats a jaffa cake   I posted about it here: http://www.diabetessupport.co.uk/boards/showthread.php?t=1874

Exercise definitely brings levels down hours after doing it.  It the same with burning calories... you don't burn many whilst exercising, but the amount you burn in the following 48 hours (ish) is greatly increased!


----------



## Northerner

I have had perfect levels today - 5.7 on waking (after going to bed on 5.7 last night), 5.5 before lunch and 4.7 before tea. I was 5.3 3 hours after tea - really pleased with my insulin estimates today! - and then 5.5 before I took my lantus. An hour later I was interested to see what I was as I haven't had a snack tonight and wanted to make sure I wasn't dropping low - I was 6.0! I'm going to give it a go and not have a snack, and see what I wake up to tomorrow - hopefully I won't have a horrid hypo-head!


----------



## katie

Wow well done on the perfect levels.  The one time i checked today i was 21...

very bad, i will get back to good levels this week i promise


----------



## Northerner

katie said:


> Wow well done on the perfect levels.  The one time i checked today i was 21...
> 
> very bad, i will get back to good levels this week i promise



[NAG=katie]Please do katie, I worry about you! Your reward can be a good HbA1c before you set off to OZ, so you'll have to get started NOW! More testing, stricter mealtimes and try and get more sleep! [/NAG]

My perfect levels continued - I'm quite amazed really! I happened to wake up at just before 3 am (probably all this talk about night testing!), and I was 4.9. When I got up this morning I was 5.1! How's that for blimmin' perfect?  Well, I'm off to get some blood tests today, including HbA1c, but won't get the results until I see my GP next Tuesday.


----------



## Vanessa

Northerner said:


> [NAG=katie]Please do katie, I worry about you! Your reward can be a good HbA1c before you set off to OZ, so you'll have to get started NOW! More testing, stricter mealtimes and try and get more sleep! [/NAG]
> 
> My perfect levels continued - I'm quite amazed really! I happened to wake up at just before 3 am (probably all this talk about night testing!), and I was 4.9. When I got up this morning I was 5.1! How's that for blimmin' perfect?  Well, I'm off to get some blood tests today, including HbA1c, but won't get the results until I see my GP next Tuesday.



Am I the only woman struggling with the concept of the "perfect male"  - must be the "admin" effect surely

More seriously though Northerner - you've done really well and long may it continue.  Hope your blood tests go ok - had mine taken this morning and will get HbA1c results next Monday so fingers crossed


----------



## katie

Northerner said:


> [NAG=katie]Please do katie, I worry about you! Your reward can be a good HbA1c before you set off to OZ, so you'll have to get started NOW! More testing, stricter mealtimes and try and get more sleep! [/NAG]



It's nice that you care Northe, but I don't think you need to worry about me   Ive been working realy hard recently to get good levels and it has been working!  Ive had the best results ive seen in ages!  That was just a one-off weekend because I was at a festival so not testing much, drinking alcohol and eating loads of carbs.  My HbA1c will be improved from last time, i promise  (I hope).

Glad you've got those hypos sorted out


----------



## Northerner

katie said:


> It's nice that you care Northe, but I don't think you need to worry about me   Ive been working realy hard recently to get good levels and it has been working!  Ive had the best results ive seen in ages!  That was just a one-off weekend because I was at a festival so not testing much, drinking alcohol and eating loads of carbs.  My HbA1c will be improved from last time, i promise  (I hope).
> 
> Glad you've got those hypos sorted out



Thanks katie - and I know you're trying hard, I'm sure you'll have a much better result this time around! When will you have it done? 

I went for the blood tests. I haven't had any via the walk-in centre since last October, but the lady who took the samples recognised me! Then, I popped round to the Diabetes Clinic to make an appointment to see the DSN - and she recognised me too! She apologised for not remembering my name, hardly surprising given how many people she probably deals with and hasn't heard from me for ages - what a lovely person! I've been really blessed with the people who've looked after me, which is why it makes me so angry when I hear of poor treatment of others. If my team can do it, why can't others?


----------



## runner

Hope your tests go well Katie!  Got my results today and am relieved - HbA1c: 7.3 (my recommended target is less than 7.5)  glucose was 8.3 - lowest yet and cholesterol 4.5, with an HDL of 2.4 - so no statins for me still.  BP normal.  Yeahhh


----------



## Northerner

Vanessa said:


> Am I the only woman struggling with the concept of the "perfect male"  - must be the "admin" effect surely



Admittedly, there aren't that many of us around...



> More seriously though Northerner - you've done really well and long may it continue.  Hope your blood tests go ok - had mine taken this morning and will get HbA1c results next Monday so fingers crossed



Ooh! I hope yours is good! The nurse that took the blood didn't hurt at all, but it has left a lump where the needle went in (crook of arm), so I'm not *quite* perfect at the moment...!


----------



## Northerner

runner said:


> Hope your tests go well Katie!  Got my results today and am relieved - HbA1c: 7.3 (my recommended target is less than 7.5)  glucose was 8.3 - lowest yet and cholesterol 4.5, with an HDL of 2.4 - so no statins for me still.  BP normal.  Yeahhh



Hey, well done runner on getting under your target! Terrific with the cholesterol and BP. I meant to change my envelope to 'fasting' so I could get the split of HDL/LDL, but forgot. I'd like to know, but don't think the LDL can be too bad as the total was only 2.4 last time.


----------



## katie

runner said:


> Hope your tests go well Katie!  Got my results today and am relieved - HbA1c: 7.3 (my recommended target is less than 7.5)  glucose was 8.3 - lowest yet and cholesterol 4.5, with an HDL of 2.4 - so no statins for me still.  BP normal.  Yeahhh



Thanks runner 

My HbA1c is scheduled for August 15th or something. Hope it comes down!!

Well done on your results runner, they are great.  What is the glucose @ 8.3 though?

Do you need to fast to get your cholesterol result? because I want to check mine is ok.  My blood pressure is "borderline" high which is just ridiculous, so I really need to sort that out.  What can I do???


----------



## runner

Northerner said:


> Admittedly, there aren't that many of us around...
> 
> 
> 
> Ooh! I hope yours is good! The nurse that took the blood didn't hurt at all, but it has left a lump where the needle went in (crook of arm), so I'm not *quite* perfect at the moment...!



I've still got a great big bruise from 2 weeks ago!  



			
				Hey said:
			
		

> Thanks Northerner.  Sounds like your cholesterol would be good with all your running.
> 
> Katie said:   My HbA1c is scheduled for August 15th or something. Hope it   comes down!!
> 
> Well done on your results runner, they are great. What is the glucose @ 8.3 though?
> 
> Do you need to fast to get your cholesterol result? because I want to check mine is ok. My blood pressure is "borderline" high which is just ridiculous, so I really need to sort that out. What can I do???​Thanks Katie.  Yes you need to have a fasint test, as Northerener says its good to get the HDL and LDL cholesterol results.  Apparently "The 8.3 mmol/l is a venous sample but, theoretically, should be the same as your "finger-prick" test"  So, the equivalent of my morning 'fasting' test - a bit high still, so my next target to aim for!
> 
> Hope your BP is OK.


----------



## Vanessa

Hi Katie, blood pressure is affected by stress, saltintake, alcohol, diet, lack of exercise - bit like diabetes really which also affects how our arteries and veins respond and in turn puts us at risk of higher BP.  So just finishing your uni course may help relieve stress and the work you're already doing on your diet and exercise will help your BP too.  As for the alcohol - diabeticretinopathy.org.uk indicates that 1 unit of alcohol can put your BP up by 2mm so worth bearing in mind

Hope this helps


----------



## katie

runner said:


> Thanks Katie.  Yes you need to have a fasint test, as Northerener says its good to get the HDL and LDL cholesterol results.  Apparently "The 8.3 mmol/l is a venous sample but, theoretically, should be the same as your "finger-prick" test"  So, the equivalent of my morning 'fasting' test - a bit high still, so my next target to aim for!
> 
> Hope your BP is OK.



oooh that indent code is clever, ive never seen that   Thanks, I will ask if I can have my cholesterol checked since everything else is a bit rubbish  Only perfection will do! lol.  

Ah they never tell me what my level is at the time of the HbA1c, thank goodness, i'd be embarassed if i had a randomly high morning level like 15!



Vanessa said:


> Hi Katie, blood pressure is affected by stress, saltintake, alcohol, diet, lack of exercise - bit like diabetes really which also affects how our arteries and veins respond and in turn puts us at risk of higher BP.  So just finishing your uni course may help relieve stress and the work you're already doing on your diet and exercise will help your BP too.  As for the alcohol - diabeticretinopathy.org.uk indicates that 1 unit of alcohol can put your BP up by 2mm so worth bearing in mind
> 
> Hope this helps



Thanks vanessa,
Ive been eating too many salted pistachios lately, so will cut them out.  im not going out drinking as much either as part of the diet, this weekend was an exception because i went to a festival   I'm hopefully less stressed now and less depressed! so hopefully it will come down.  Does high blood pressure increase risk/speed damage of retinopathy?? Because I had a little bit and i really dont want it to go any further 

She said it isnt high yet but i dont even want it to be borderline!


----------



## Northerner

katie said:


> Thanks runner
> 
> My HbA1c is scheduled for August 15th or something. Hope it comes down!!
> 
> Well done on your results runner, they are great.  What is the glucose @ 8.3 though?
> 
> Do you need to fast to get your cholesterol result? because I want to check mine is ok.  My blood pressure is "borderline" high which is just ridiculous, so I really need to sort that out.  What can I do???



Yes, you need to fast to get the 'split' between HDL and LDL cholesterol, otherwise they can just give you a total. Booze, unfortunately, is something that can increase your blood pressure, even for some days after a session.


----------



## katie

Northerner said:


> Yes, you need to fast to get the 'split' between HDL and LDL cholesterol, otherwise they can just give you a total. Booze, unfortunately, is something that can increase your blood pressure, even for some days after a session.



better mske sure i dont drink before my next appointment then.  otherwise she wont be allowed to give me a years supply of my medication!


----------



## Vanessa

runner said:


> Thanks Katie.  Yes you need to have a fasint test, as Northerener says its good to get the HDL and LDL cholesterol results.  Apparently "The 8.3 mmol/l is a venous sample but, theoretically, should be the same as your "finger-prick" test"  So, the equivalent of my morning 'fasting' test - a bit high still, so my next target to aim for!



Thought I read somewhere that your venous sample may come in about 0.5mmol below your finger prick (capilliary) test as UK home testing meters measure something slightly different whereas USA ones are calibrated so was a bit confused about your comments.  Checking this found a bit in Hanas on Type 2 that states "In people without diabetes, venous blood tested after a meal has about 10% less glucose than capilliary blood."  I presume that means that the fasting levels should be the same?  Does anyone know?


----------



## runner

Not sure, but the quote was from my hospita DSN following a query about it by me.  Also my meter was American and now sold in the UK (Wavesense Jazz)


----------



## Northerner

Well, my run of perfection continued throughout yesterday: 5.1 waking, 5.9 before lunch, 4.7 before tea, and 6.6 before bed (no snack). I woke to 5.2 this morning. I think this is my longest stretch of 'in range' numbers since diagnosis - no hypos (which is usually my problem) and no highs! Not bragging, but just feeling very lucky and hoping it doesn't all go t*ts up!


----------



## insulinaddict09

Northerner said:


> Well, my run of perfection continued throughout yesterday: 5.1 waking, 5.9 before lunch, 4.7 before tea, and 6.6 before bed (no snack). I woke to 5.2 this morning. I think this is my longest stretch of 'in range' numbers since diagnosis - no hypos (which is usually my problem) and no highs! Not bragging, but just feeling very lucky and hoping it doesn't all go t*ts up!



Congratulations !! excellent numbers ,keep up the good work


----------



## runner

Brilliant - let's hope it stays that way for as long as possible!

I was 10.7 bewfore breakfast  Had a hypo (2.5) at 1.30am.  shouldn't have taken a unit at bedtime for a 7.5 Silly me!


----------



## Northerner

runner said:


> Brilliant - let's hope it stays that way for as long as possible!
> 
> I was 10.7 bewfore breakfast  Had a hypo (2.5) at 1.30am.  shouldn't have taken a unit at bedtime for a 7.5 Silly me!



Ooh no! I certainly wouldn't have taken anything at that level - it's virtually in range. In fact, a few weeks ago I would have had a snack! Actually, I never take correction doses, except maybe adjusting my mealtime doses up or down - never on their own. Although, if I had some of the highs that many speak of I would no doubt have to!


----------



## runner

Northerner said:


> Ooh no! I certainly wouldn't have taken anything at that level - it's virtually in range. In fact, a few weeks ago I would have had a snack! Actually, I never take correction doses, except maybe adjusting my mealtime doses up or down - never on their own. Although, if I had some of the highs that many speak of I would no doubt have to!



Yeah, you're right.  I guess I was thinking my BS would rise towards morning as I take my lantus in the morning.  Have tried increasing it, but get hypos during day, so its about where it should be. Having a wierd day tho' - Had boiled eggs (no carbs) and 1 sm slice wholemeal toast, no spread - had 2 units insulin (I usually need 1 unit for 20 carbs) because I was already 10.7.  1 1/2 hrs later i was 13!  Took another unit, then 3/4 hr later was 14!  Dropped down to 9 before lunch, but that was very odd for me


----------



## Vanessa

katie said:


> Does high blood pressure increase risk/speed damage of retinopathy?? Because I had a little bit and i really dont want it to go any further
> 
> She said it isnt high yet but i dont even want it to be borderline!



Checked out www.diabeticretinopathy.org.uk for details and they direct you to the following link that gives a lot of detail - they suggest it is worth printing out.  Recommended levels for home testing with retinopathy is <120/75

http://medweb.bham.ac.uk/easdec/prevention/Diabetes and Blood Pressure.htm

Hope this helps


----------



## katie

thanks alot vanessa, i'll take a look. I'll buy a blood pressure monitor too


----------



## Northerner

Another good day - 5.2 waking, 5.7 before lunch, 7.6 before tea (entirly due to the couple of cold beers I had to have in the afternoon!), and 4.1 before bed. Because it was so low I had a weetabix before retiring and woke to 5.1 this morning! If it hadn't been for those beers, I would have had another 'in range' day! It's probably also the reason why I dipped lower than expected before bed. Today should be interseting as I got up at 5:30 this morning so had my breakfast much earlier than usual. I'm expecting my BG to creep up before lunch as I think my basal dose, although good for me overnight, might be a liitle on the low side as the day progresses...


----------



## katie

Northerner said:


> Another good day - 5.2 waking, 5.7 before lunch, 7.6 before tea (entirly due to the couple of cold beers I had to have in the afternoon!), and 4.1 before bed. Because it was so low I had a weetabix before retiring and woke to 5.1 this morning! If it hadn't been for those beers, I would have had another 'in range' day! It's probably also the reason why I dipped lower than expected before bed. Today should be interseting as I got up at 5:30 this morning so had my breakfast much earlier than usual. I'm expecting my BG to creep up before lunch as I think my basal dose, although good for me overnight, might be a liitle on the low side as the day progresses...



7.6 not in range?? especially after beer... for goodness sake Northe that is a great level to be   Well done on perfect levels again.

Why on earth did you get up at 5.30?  I thought 6.30 was bad enough! (I did go to sleep at 2.15 though!)


----------



## Northerner

katie said:


> 7.6 not in range?? especially after beer... for goodness sake Northe that is a great level to be   Well done on perfect levels again.
> 
> Why on earth did you get up at 5.30?  I thought 6.30 was bad enough! (I did go to sleep at 2.15 though!)



Actually, I got it wrong - it was 7.3! I woke up and was too hot, so decided to get up. I make up for it in the winter when it's dark and cold!


----------



## katie

see, even more perfect   I would never get up if I woke up at 5.30 - im far too lazy 

right, im off to boots in a minute for a blood pressure monitor - fun times!!  That makes me feel about 63, not 23!!


----------



## insulinaddict09

katie said:


> see, even more perfect   I would never get up if I woke up at 5.30 - im far too lazy
> 
> right, im off to boots in a minute for a blood pressure monitor - fun times!!  That makes me feel about 63, not 23!!



Hi Twin , can you let me know if the monitor is any good please? I'm thinking of buying one  haha i must be 64 then lol . I have used one before and had all sorts of scary reading but I did have a zillion ketones and all sorts at the time lol. 

As for Glucose Readings !!!!! Oh My God !! I can but dream of levels like that , 7.3 is a fantastic number that I wish I saw more on my meter  Well Done on those levels , I am soooo jealous , and after beer as well !!!! not fair


----------



## Northerner

insulinaddict09 said:


> Hi Twin , can you let me know if the monitor is any good please? I'm thinking of buying one  haha i must be 64 then lol . I have used one before and had all sorts of scary reading but I did have a zillion ketones and all sorts at the time lol.
> 
> As for Glucose Readings !!!!! Oh My God !! I can but dream of levels like that , 7.3 is a fantastic number that I wish I saw more on my meter  Well Done on those levels , I am soooo jealous , and after beer as well !!!! not fair



I've got one of those monitors - the type that goes on your wrist. It's not bad - not as accurate as the doctor's, but gives you an idea of where you are BP-wise. 

Interestingly today I had an early breakfast (6.20 am) so my novorapid was well out of my system at lunch 7 hours later. My BG level was 5.9, so I guess 

a) my basal dose is pretty much spot-on, as I'd hoped​b) I dosed myself correctly for my breakfast!​
Hurrah! Perhaps I don't have diabetes after all, and it's all an elaborate hoax - maybe the 'insulin' they keep giving me is just saline!


----------



## insulinaddict09

Northerner said:


> I've got one of those monitors - the type that goes on your wrist. It's not bad - not as accurate as the doctor's, but gives you an idea of where you are BP-wise.
> 
> Interestingly today I had an early breakfast (6.20 am) so my novorapid was well out of my system at lunch 7 hours later. My BG level was 5.9, so I guess
> 
> a) my basal dose is pretty much spot-on, as I'd hoped​b) I dosed myself correctly for my breakfast!​
> Hurrah! Perhaps I don't have diabetes after all, and it's all an elaborate hoax - maybe the 'insulin' they keep giving me is just saline!



Ha ha ha welllllll , now you've brought the subject up , I have often wondered if your Diabetes is in fact Psychosymatic  ( oops that me moderated ) . I think I need someone to come and sort all my doses out for me , I cant leave my Basal alone  I just keep tweaking it , its a bit of an obsession , which I might add is doing no b***** good at all !!


----------



## Northerner

insulinaddict09 said:


> Ha ha ha welllllll , now you've brought the subject up , I have often wondered if your Diabetes is in fact Psychosymatic  ( oops that me moderated ) . I think I need someone to come and sort all my doses out for me , I cant leave my Basal alone  I just keep tweaking it , its a bit of an obsession , which I might add is doing no b***** good at all !!



Placebo insulin for 'hypo'-chondriacs! There's a thought! Doesn't your DSN or consultant offer any help with your basal? Although I know that your experience hasn't been a good one in the past (don't I remember you saying they diagnosed you as Type 2, even though you have many family members with Type 1?).


----------



## katie

insulinaddict09 said:


> Hi Twin , can you let me know if the monitor is any good please? I'm thinking of buying one  haha i must be 64 then lol . I have used one before and had all sorts of scary reading but I did have a zillion ketones and all sorts at the time lol.



I will let you know how it is twin, im going to use it as soon as I get home... which will be after a very long walk so i'll have to do it again an hour later lol.



Northerner said:


> I've got one of those monitors - the type that goes on your wrist. It's not bad - not as accurate as the doctor's, but gives you an idea of where you are BP-wise.
> 
> Interestingly today I had an early breakfast (6.20 am) so my novorapid was well out of my system at lunch 7 hours later. My BG level was 5.9, so I guess
> 
> a) my basal dose is pretty much spot-on, as I'd hoped​b) I dosed myself correctly for my breakfast!​
> Hurrah! Perhaps I don't have diabetes after all, and it's all an elaborate hoax - maybe the 'insulin' they keep giving me is just saline!



Well Northe, this is a new state-of-the-arts monitor  it is an upper arm one not a wrist one hehe.

Yeah i'm pretty sure you dont have diabetes  how many units have you been taking?


----------



## insulinaddict09

Northerner said:


> Placebo insulin for 'hypo'-chondriacs! There's a thought! Doesn't your DSN or consultant offer any help with your basal? Although I know that your experience hasn't been a good one in the past (don't I remember you saying they diagnosed you as Type 2, even though you have many family members with Type 1?).



Ummm Consultant ? Dsn ? , I dont actually have those  Well maybe I do but I havent see either of them since the begining of last year after my battle with DKA . I just tend to do my own thing and mess around with doses etc until something works or goes drastically wrong 
Yes you remember correctly although I was under 7 stone at the time and ALL my family are Type 1's I was diagnosed as type 2 with a level in the 20's at the time  I was then left to my own devices on metformin for 6 years until Dka got me lol


----------



## insulinaddict09

katie said:


> I will let you know how it is twin, im going to use it as soon as I get home... which will be after a very long walk so i'll have to do it again an hour later lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Well Northe, this is a new state-of-the-arts monitor  it is an upper arm one not a wrist one hehe.
> 
> Yeah i'm pretty sure you dont have diabetes  how many units have you been taking?



Hi Twin , yes let me know if its any good please  Hahaha yeah after a long walk in this heat you might want to leave it a while lol or you might be tempted to call the paramedics


----------



## Northerner

katie said:


> ...Well Northe, this is a new state-of-the-arts monitor  it is an upper arm one not a wrist one hehe.
> 
> Yeah i'm pretty sure you dont have diabetes  how many units have you been taking?



Whooo! Get you, with your posh, upper-arm meter! I bet it's digital too!

My insulin changes through the day, but I usually need more in the morning and less as the day goes on (for the amount of carbs, that is, which I guess is my ratio). So, a typical day currently is: 5 units NR breakfast, 8 units lunch and 10-12 units tea, plus 9 lantus per day. At the beginning of April I was on 8 breakfast, 14 lunch and 18 tea, with 20 lantus. My levels feel as though they are better now  -will be interesting to see what my HbA1c is next week! Weren't you and Nikki taking bets?


----------



## aymes

Northerner said:


> Hurrah! Perhaps I don't have diabetes after all, and it's all an elaborate hoax - maybe the 'insulin' they keep giving me is just saline!



I thought that for about the first year of my diagnosis, that it was either a terrible mistake or they (don't know who I thought 'they' were) were playing a trick on me!



Northerner said:


> My insulin changes through the day, but I usually need more in the morning and less as the day goes on (for the amount of carbs, that is, which I guess is my ratio).



I think that's what most people find, I've yet to discover someone like me who has a bigger evening ratio than morning/daytime, maybe I have some sort of reverse dawn phenom.... Suppose I'm just a special case!


----------



## katie

insulinaddict09 said:


> Hi Twin , yes let me know if its any good please  Hahaha yeah after a long walk in this heat you might want to leave it a while lol or you might be tempted to call the paramedics



haha that's probably why my result was borderline high, I practically ran to the doctor's surgery.  BTW twin, it is wednesday!  did you have your HbA1c??




Northerner said:


> Whooo! Get you, with your posh, upper-arm meter! I bet it's digital too!
> 
> My insulin changes through the day, but I usually need more in the morning and less as the day goes on (for the amount of carbs, that is, which I guess is my ratio). So, a typical day currently is: 5 units NR breakfast, 8 units lunch and 10-12 units tea, plus 9 lantus per day. At the beginning of April I was on 8 breakfast, 14 lunch and 18 tea, with 20 lantus. My levels feel as though they are better now  -will be interesting to see what my HbA1c is next week! Weren't you and Nikki taking bets?



Haha, it is indeed digital 

Wow you've almost halved your insulin, it's supposed to double after the honeymoon period!!

I'm going to place a bet of 5.3


----------



## sofaraway

I use my dads blood pressure monitor and it's pretty good. I do have a bit of postural hypotension on occasions, but sometimes not. Katie I must have missed it, but are you having problems with your blood pressure? 

Yeah I think I bet something like 5.2 %, although I will have trawl this thread to find out for sure. 

What is your average blood sugar? this site can help predict A1c. 
http://www.diabetesdaily.com/calculator/


----------



## sofaraway

sofaraway said:


> I reckon Northerner's A1c will be 5.1%, whats the prize?
> 
> [/url]



Ok I went with 5.1% I'll stick to that,


----------



## aymes

sofaraway said:


> Ok I went with 5.1% I'll stick to that,



Can I join in? I think I'll go for 5.7%


----------



## Steff

aymes said:


> Can I join in? I think I'll go for 5.7%



and i'll stick my hooter in and go 5.5%


----------



## katie

sofaraway said:


> I use my dads blood pressure monitor and it's pretty good. I do have a bit of postural hypotension on occasions, but sometimes not. Katie I must have missed it, but are you having problems with your blood pressure?
> 
> Yeah I think I bet something like 5.2 %, although I will have trawl this thread to find out for sure.
> 
> What is your average blood sugar? this site can help predict A1c.
> http://www.diabetesdaily.com/calculator/



oh did i guess too? lol ive forgotten, I will look back when i get home from work.

Yep, I want a year's prescription of the pill but cant have it at the moment because my blood pressure is "borderline" on the high side of things, and it was when i went to the diabetes specialist so need to sort it out!


----------



## runner

Northerner said:


> Hurrah! Perhaps I don't have diabetes after all, and it's all an elaborate hoax - maybe the 'insulin' they keep giving me is just saline! ....will be interesting to see what my HbA1c is next week! Weren't you and Nikki taking bets?



Ahhh Northerner, dream on - brilliant control though, I can't keep mine that tight, otherwise I go hypo, but still pleased with how I'm doing.  BP on my OH's wrist monitor was 133 over 80 today - not bad!

It was me and sofaraway, but can't remember what I bet!


----------



## sofaraway

runner said:


> Hmmm he's had quite a few low readings until he sorted his basal, altho' not having a test for a few weeks.  I reckon 5.8



that was your bet runner


----------



## runner

Northerner said:


> Whooo! Get you, with your posh, upper-arm meter! I bet it's digital too!
> 
> My insulin changes through the day, but I usually need more in the morning and less as the day goes on (for the amount of carbs, that is, which I guess is my ratio). So, a typical day currently is: 5 units NR breakfast, 8 units lunch and 10-12 units tea, plus 9 lantus per day. At the beginning of April I was on 8 breakfast, 14 lunch and 18 tea, with 20 lantus. My levels feel as though they are better now  -will be interesting to see what my HbA1c is next week! Weren't you and Nikki taking bets?



My lantus has gone up from 10 to 13, but my doses with meals can range from on ave, 2 - 3 units with breakfast, 0 - 2 units with lunch, 2 - 4 units with tea and 1-2 units if I snack a lot in the evening.


----------



## runner

sofaraway said:


> that was your bet runner



LOL - thanks sofaraway!


----------



## sofaraway

runner said:


> My lantus has gone up from 10 to 13, but my doses with meals can range from on ave, 2 - 3 units with breakfast, 0 - 2 units with lunch, 2 - 4 units with tea and 1-2 units if I snack a lot in the evening.



We use very similar amounts of insulin, I use 12 units basal at the moment and 1-2 with breakfast 1-4 with lunch and 2-6 with dinner. my insulin needs go up and down considerably, think the heat is keeping my boluses down at the moment.


----------



## runner

sofaraway said:


> We use very similar amounts of insulin, I use 12 units basal at the moment and 1-2 with breakfast 1-4 with lunch and 2-6 with dinner. my insulin needs go up and down considerably, think the heat is keeping my boluses down at the moment.



Yeah, I think the heat has affected me too - had a strange day yesterday when BS's kept going up, in spite of usual units for readings and usual food - altho' think I am coming down with yet another cough/cold - that's my biggest bugbear about diabetes, never got them much before.


----------



## Northerner

Blimey! The pressure's on, isnt it? You all expect me to get below 6.0 for my HbA1c - here are the guesses so far (and all different!):


katie: 5.3
Nikki: 5.1
aymes: 5.7
steff: 5.5
runner: 5.8

I'm personally going to guess 5.4...but I really don't know what to expect. I have an idea, of course, from looking at my average meter readings - but any of you could be correct. If it's over 6.0 then I'm giving up and not having diabetes any more!

Yesterday was another (almost) perfect day: 5.2 waking, 5.9 lunch, 6.7 tea (and more beer too!), and 4.7 before bed, although I did drop to 3.6 about 3 hours after my tea so that's why it wasn't perfect. I woke to 5.3 this morning. I think it's the morning readings that I'm happiest with - I have been in the low 5's every morning for the past week, which gives me such confidence that my lantus couldn't be better (for now!)


----------



## Steff

Northerner said:


> Blimey! The pressure's on, isnt it? You all expect me to get below 6.0 for my HbA1c - here are the guesses so far (and all different!):
> 
> 
> katie: 5.3
> Nikki: 5.1
> aymes: 5.7
> steff: 5.5
> runner: 5.8
> 
> I'm personally going to guess 5.4...but I really don't know what to expect. I have an idea, of course, from looking at my average meter readings - but any of you could be correct. If it's over 6.0 then I'm giving up and not having diabetes any more!
> 
> Yesterday was another (almost) perfect day: 5.2 waking, 5.9 lunch, 6.7 tea (and more beer too!), and 4.7 before bed, although I did drop to 3.6 about 3 hours after my tea so that's why it wasn't perfect. I woke to 5.3 this morning. I think it's the morning readings that I'm happiest with - I have been in the low 5's every morning for the past week, which gives me such confidence that my lantus couldn't be better (for now!)



sorry if i have missed this somewhere , but have you an hbA1c test coming up northener ?


----------



## bev

I will guess at 5.2 - because you do seem to be always on the lower side Northerner. How many hypo's do you have in a typical week?Bev


----------



## Northerner

steff09 said:


> sorry if i have missed this somewhere , but have you an hbA1c test coming up northener ?



Yes steff - I will find out next Tuesday



bev said:


> I will guess at 5.2 - because you do seem to be always on the lower side Northerner. How many hypo's do you have in a typical week?Bev



I've had 6 in the past week, although most of them were 'borderline' and usually readings taken just before meals. I've been improving on that side, as well as managing my evening/bedtime levels much better, so overall have been closer to my 4-7 range than I was at the last test in January. Back then I was getting more hypos and going to bed above range, so I guess that evened itself out to a 5.3. I think this test will be a better indicator of good control, although I've been lucky in that it's never really been poor.


----------



## Northerner

Good numbers are continuing! According to my meter software, over the past 7 days the lowest I have been is 3.5 mmol/l and the highest 8.0 mmol/l. Actually, that 8 doesn't really count, as it is a 2hr post-meal reading taken before going out for a run. My highest pre-meal has been 7.3 and I also had a 7.2 last night.

I doubt if it's possible to get any better control than that! Woohoo!!


----------



## runner

Brilliant   Hope the test reflects all your hard work - I'm sure it will


----------



## Northerner

I think I was wrong when I said my numbers couldn't get any better. This morning I woke to 4.8, was 4.7 before lunch and 4.6 before tea, and no hypos. Of course, this being diabetes I'll probably get brought back down to earth tomorrow when I get all my test results...


----------



## aymes

I think you're showing off now.....

Seriously though, that sounds fab, looks like you've cracked the basal! 

Good luck for tomorrow.


----------



## Northerner

Well, after weeks of being fine on my lantus dose I had a bit of a blip last night. For a while now I have been able to go to bed on 5.x and wake to upper 4s or early 5s. Last night I was 6.9 before bed, so didn't worry about needing snacks or anything. But I woke up needing the loo at about 1:30 and felt a bit low so I took a reading - 3.2! I had some JBs and a biscuit and then woke to 5.0 this morning.

So now I'm wondering whether to reduce my lantus again by another unit, down to 8. It was 20 this time last year.  I think I'll try 8 tonight and then see what effect it has tomorrow - might push me up a couple of mmol, but I'd rather have that than the threat of night hypos again.


----------



## runner

Hi Northe,

I'm a bit out of touch with what's happening on the forums, but are you still training for the run - perhaps its kicking in?  Sounds like a good plan anyway


----------



## Northerner

runner said:


> Hi Northe,
> 
> I'm a bit out of touch with what's happening on the forums, but are you still training for the run - perhaps its kicking in?  Sounds like a good plan anyway



You could be right there runner, as I have been getting lower than usual waking levels lately too. Good to hear from you BTW, hope all is OK?


----------



## Northerner

Well, I have reduced the lantus to 8 from 9 for the past couple of nights and am still within range. Woke to 5.9 yesterday and 5.8 today. Something I have noticed recently is that I rarely snack between meals any more - something I used to do constantly prior to diagnosis and quite frequently in the months after. Now I might just nibble on a few peanuts, whereas before I would be having biscuits, crisps or chocolate between meals.


----------



## sofaraway

You will be down to no basal soon! It does make sense though if you are honeymooning that your pancreas can cope with producing small amounts of insulin but the stress of reacting to food is too much and thats why you need reasonable bolus doses to have good numbers after eating. 

My basal goes up and down, maximum of 22, went down to 6, now up to 13.


----------

