# Newbie Type 2 !



## MissDaisy (Jun 20, 2020)

Hello Diabetes UK members!

Newly diagnosed Type 2 (Nov) - Metformin 500mg X 2 Twice a day however still running high.

Looking for support, tips on GI diet and weight loss (put on as have Fibromyalgia pain & severe fatigue)

Also, I have a mystery skin condition that DRs are baffled by as bloods fine - got zinc stockings for arms, legs and they are thinking what to do about torso. I am in my 40s and my body image has been affected by all this and so private counselling starting next week.

If I could get my diabetes under control the wounds heal better obviously but what is causing them nobody knows!

Anyway that’s a little about me .......I look forward to reading, commenting and chatting with you all.

Sending you all the best Miss


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## SB2015 (Jun 20, 2020)

Welcome to the forum @MissDaisy 

Sorry to hear that you are having to deal with a variety of issues.
You mention that you are generally running high and that often happens at the star until you are able to find out what it is that raises your levels.  I am not sure how much you have been told so my apologies if I end up telling you what you already know.

The rise in glucose levels is due to all the carbohydrates that you eat, not just sugar. This includes the more obvious ones such as rice potatoes, rice and pasta, but also things like cereal (for which I like the description of a bowl of sugar in disguise). Once inside us the carbs are changed to glucose and enter our blood stream.  These can then be used by our muscles if there is enough insulin in the system.  However if we have Diabetes there is not enough insulin (or no insulin in the case of T1) or the insulin released by our Pancreas does NT work properly.  It is then important to match the amount of carbs eaten to the amount of insulin available.

You can use a BG meter, taking a reading before and 2 hrs after eating to see how food is affecting you as an individual (everyone is different, and it’s important to understand your own tolerances and ‘safe choices’). The numbers themselves don’t  matter so much at the beginning, it is the difference between them - the ‘meal rise‘ which you want to keep as near to 2-3mmol/L as you can. If you happen to identify any carbs that seem to be spiking your BG, you can  then experiment with reducing amounts or swapping types (sometimes just having things at a different time of day makes a difference) and/or increasing levels of activity.  If you are interested in this approach you may have to fund your own meter (they are often not prescribed for those with T2). If so a key factor is the ongoing cost of the stips - One of the most affordaoble meters members here have found is from SD, and has been recently updated to the SD Gluco Navii which has test strips at around £8 for 50

For a bit more background information, the ‘useful links’ thread is a mine of helpful information - useful-links-for-people-new-to-diabetes.  Members on here frequently recommend Maggie Davey’s Letter and Gretchen Becker’s book, as very helpful starting points.


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## Drummer (Jun 20, 2020)

I'm afraid that if you are hoping to eat low GI foods and control either blood glucose or weight, it could be a bit disappointing. I find that low GI is no advantage at all and I need to follow a low carb way of eating in order to have normal levels of glucose and to have lost some of the weight gain inflicted by high carb diets.


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## rebrascora (Jun 20, 2020)

Hi Miss Daisy and welcome.

There is lots of help and advice available here so make yourself comfortable, get a cuppa and start reading...

Basically you need to change the way you eat and increase your activity levels but this needs to be done gradually, so small sustainable changes.
Low GI is not necessarily the answer. Glycaemic index is an average measure of how quickly the carbohydrates in food will be released, it does not tell you how quickly or slowly your body will break them down and as with everything in life, there can be a lot of variation between one person and another. Eating less carbohydrates on the other hand is much more likely to be successful in lowering your Blood Glucose (BG) levels and is easier to assess, because carbohydrate content is listed in the nutritional info on the back or side of all packaging.... ignore the traffic light system info on the front as that just lists sugar and fat and isn't any help to us diabetics.

You are looking to gradually reduce your consumption of carb rich foods and these are not just the obvious cakes, biscuits sweets and chocolate but also bread, pasta, rice, couscous, breakfast cereals particularly and potatoes. Even otherwise healthy foods like porridge and fruit (in all its forms ie fresh, dried and juiced) can cause us a problem as diabetics and need to be restricted if you want to manage your blood glucose levels effectively.

That may sound like there isn't much left to eat but a low carb diet can be surprisingly filling and enjoyable.... For instance I often have a 2 egg mushroom, onion,courgette, bacon and cheese omelette for breakfast with a salad of lettuce leaves, pea shoots, a couple of cherry tomatoes, some cucumber and a good dollop of cheese coleslaw..... That will usually keep me going until my evening meal without needing any lunch. Or I might skip breakfast other than a cup of coffee made with cream and have an omelette or an egg/meat/fish salad for lunch. 
A light breakfast  might be a couple of good dollops of Creamy Greek Natural yoghurt (not low fat versions as they are higher in carbs) with 5 or 6 raspberries and some mixed seeds and chopped nuts. 

Getting yourself a BG meter with plenty of test strips will be really helpful too. Most of us find a meter invaluable in tailoring our diet to our body's ability to release glucose from food. They are rarely prescribed to Type 2 diabetics these days unless you are on medication which can cause hypos, so most people have to self fund, but they are relatively inexpensive to purchase with a basic meter being about £15. The cost of supplying test strips for it can drain the finances though and for that reason we recommend people buy one of the meters with the cheapest test strips.... either the SD Gluco Navii or the Spirit Healthcare Tee2 blood glucose meters as the test strips for these work out at £8 for a pot of 50 as oppose to 2x or even 3x+ for some other meters.

Anyway, this gives you a little idea of how to move forward but take your time... perhaps just change one small thing every few days. Perhaps start by changing any snacks you eat to low carb alternatives... eat a piece of cheese or some olives or some veggie sticks and sour cream and chive dip (not low fat version) or a boiled egg with some mayonnaise if you feel hungry instead of a biscuit or crisps or sweets. Or choose one meal and half the carbs in that meal, but remember to bulk it out with other low carb foods.... no need to go hungry just because you can't cope with carbs.

Most of us keep a food diary along with our readings before and 2 hours after eating each meal. This shows us how much that meal affected our BG levels and then we can see if it raised it too much, we know for next time we have that meal that we need to reduce the amount of carbs in it and test again.

Hope all that hasn't bamboozled you too much. It is a lot to take in. The key is to slowly reduce the amount of carbs you eat and build up your activity levels.... a brisk daily walk is the ideal exercise for diabetics if you are able, so it doesn't have to be anything strenuous. 

We are here to support you all the way and answer any questions you have.

Good luck with your journey! Many of us feel far better for getting this wake up call to sort our lives out and I have had some surprising health benefits from changing my diet.


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## MissDaisy (Jun 20, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> Hi Miss Daisy and welcome.
> 
> There is lots of help and advice available here so make yourself comfortable, get a cuppa and start reading...
> 
> ...


Hi and thanks for your reply

All information is invaluable at this point from you guys who have been living with Diabetes for a while . I have a bit of knowledge as my late Father was Steroid Induced Diabetes and was on insulin to begin with & then eventually diet controlled.

I have a meter as I was given one & have strips on prescription etc - maybe got one for free due to my wounds to help to try to control levels.

I will read all the replies with interest. Is there anyway of tagging other members who’ve answered above so they can read this reply or will they see it automatically?

Much appreciated Miss


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## MissDaisy (Jun 20, 2020)

Drummer said:


> I'm afraid that if you are hoping to eat low GI foods and control either blood glucose or weight, it could be a bit disappointing. I find that low GI is no advantage at all and I need to follow a low carb way of eating in order to have normal levels of glucose and to have lost some of the weight gain inflicted by high carb diets.



Hi and thank sure for your valuable input 

I guess as you say it’s finding out what foods are good and what you’re readings are pre & post. Lots of food diaries and BMs for me then!

Much appreciated Miss


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## rebrascora (Jun 20, 2020)

Hi
They should get an alert to say that you have replied to the thread without tagging them.

No need to reply to individual posts unless you want to be very polite or there is something particular you want to address in the content.

Great that you have a meter and test strips. What sort of readings are you getting?
What was your HbA1c at diagnosis and have you had a follow up blood test?

Hope you don't mind me asking a personal question but do you need to lose much/any weight?
Have you lost any weight recently and if so, how easy was it?

These questions help us to have an idea of where you are with your diabetes.


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## MissDaisy (Jun 20, 2020)

SB2015 said:


> Welcome to the forum @MissDaisy
> 
> Sorry to hear that you are having to deal with a variety of issues.
> You mention that you are generally running high and that often happens at the star until you are able to find out what it is that raises your levels.  I am not sure how much you have been told so my apologies if I end up telling you what you already know.
> ...



Hi and thanks for your informative reply.

It seems I have a lot to read about and lots of food diaries & BMs to be done. I have a machine from the GP 

Thank You again much appreciated Miss


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## rebrascora (Jun 20, 2020)

I know some people refer to BG readings as BMs (not entirely sure what actual word the M stands for) but it rather makes me giggle as I read BM as Bowel Movement and it seems you have a lot to do!! Sorry not making fun of you... just having a laugh which is something we tend to do because if you don't try to see the funny side sometimes, it can make you want to cry! Hope I haven't offended you and if I have please accept my apologies ... just couldn't resist sharing the thought that made me giggle!


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## MissDaisy (Jun 20, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> Hi
> They should get an alert to say that you have replied to the thread without tagging them.
> 
> No need to reply to individual posts unless you want to be very polite or there is something particular you want to address in the content.
> ...



Hi 

No worries, happy to answer questions! 

Due to chronic pain, severe fatigue and medication I went from size 6-8 to size 16 over 13years or so plus not knowing I was diabetic didn’t help.

HCP from surgery shocked that blood test you mention wasn’t taken in Nov whilst in hospital. They’ve now taken it, don’t know result yet. BM always between 12-15 and sometimes higher - diet not that bad so I am wondering if the wounds infection is playing a part?! I notice when on antibiotics they were between 9-12.
Buy as they have no clue what the mystery condition is I have no treatment for it. 

They thought it might be Sweets Syndrome a very rare autoimmune condition (irony I know!!) but biopsy was negative. 

I feel like both conditions are battling against one another. I feel a little in limbo until they treat the mystery condition TBH but I thought I’d come here for advise & support until they can work out what it is!

Thank you again MissDaisy


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## MissDaisy (Jun 20, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> I know some people refer to BG readings as BMs (not entirely sure what actual word the M stands for) but it rather makes me giggle as I read BM as Bowel Movement and it seems you have a lot to do!! Sorry not making fun of you... just having a laugh which is something we tend to do because if you don't try to see the funny side sometimes, it can make you want to cry! Hope I haven't offended you and if I have please accept my apologies ... just couldn't resist sharing the thought that made me giggle!


LOL  They say BMs I’m hospital and stands for meter I think ..... but if they use BGs here I can use this too Ha Ha !
Bowels in hospital is usually BO for bowels open or BNO if not.


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## MissDaisy (Jun 20, 2020)

SB2015 said:


> Welcome to the forum @MissDaisy
> 
> Sorry to hear that you are having to deal with a variety of issues.
> You mention that you are generally running high and that often happens at the star until you are able to find out what it is that raises your levels.  I am not sure how much you have been told so my apologies if I end up telling you what you already know.
> ...



Hi 

How do you update profile to hide personal details and/or add signature please?

Thanks in advance


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## rebrascora (Jun 20, 2020)

I can imagine it must be really frustrating and upsetting for you, especially with something so apparent like a rash. BG levels that high will be feeding the infections in your skin, so I would concentrate on reducing your carbs to reduce your BG. It is the only thing you really have any personal control over. I appreciate you say your diet isn't bad but if you don't put carbs in, the glucose levels have to come down... unless you are Type 1, but then you would expect to see sudden weight loss... which was why I asked.

Would you like to give us an idea of the sort or things that you currently eat for breakfast, lunch and evening meal on an average day and suggest areas where you might make a few small changes to get things moving. 
In my early days of starting low carb I really hadn't a clue, so I was eating dried fruit in my porridge and no added sugar beans on wholemeal toast and wholegrains with my evening meal thinking I was doing the right thing. It was a surprise to find that even butter beans and kidney beans as well as those foods I mentioned above cause me problems.


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## MissDaisy (Jun 20, 2020)

Hi 

Today I’ve had no sugar/low salt baked beans on brown bread at lunch and evening meal chicken, salad with 2 new potatoes - and done 30 mins exercise 10 warm up exercise and 20mins walking exercises. BG was 15.1 after lunch and after exercise 14.3. Only drink water & tea with no sugar. 

I think I need to get a food diary and start meticulously writing everything down! It sounds like I need to really change diet and GP suggested low GI however you guys mention it’s not the answer for all. 

They’ve just upped my metformin from 3 to 4 a day, I don’t know how long before it starts to make a real difference? 

Many Thanks again Miss Daisy


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## rebrascora (Jun 20, 2020)

Baked beans (even low/no sugar) on brown bread is a double whammy carb attack.... two lots of carbs on the one plate!
How many slices of bread? Half a can of beans? Just trying to figure out how many grams of carbs in that one meal...
Did you have low fat spread or butter or none?


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## rebrascora (Jun 20, 2020)

Baked beans are 20g carbs for half a tin of no sugar variety plus 15g carbs each per slice of bread, so that is 50g carbs just on that plate assuming 2 slices of medium wholemeal... more if thicker. Quite a few people restrict themselves to a max of 30g of carbs a meal and some people have less than 30g carbs all day to keep their BG in check.
New potatoes are better than mature potatoes. Hope you had plenty of butter on them! Size of potatoes would determine how many carbs in that meal.

Did you have any breakfast? Any dessert or snacks?

Do you use skimmed, semi skimmed or whole milk.... the latter is the lowest carb so the best choice for a diabetic or cream but not sure even I could drink tea with cream in it... might have a try though!  

Trying to think of a similar type of low carb food to beans on toast is difficult. There are low carb breads that you can buy but with beans it will still be carb heavy. How about scrambled eggs on a low carb toast as an alternative or sardines?


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## MissDaisy (Jun 20, 2020)

Hi 

Thanks for your reply and understanding about my skin issues & the distress it causes - forgot to say that in last reply as was eager to send my meals for today!

So much conflicting info online as baked beans and toast is recommended online as slow release but I hear what you’re saying. So would I have 1/2 slice of bread & 1/2 tin of beans or would that be too much do you think? 

It’s so difficult to control your sugars and makes you appreciate how the body does a fantastic job when it is working properly 

MissDaisy


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## MissDaisy (Jun 20, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> Baked beans are 20g carbs for half a tin of no sugar variety plus 15g carbs each per slice of bread, so that is 50g carbs just on that plate assuming 2 slices of medium wholemeal... more if thicker. Quite a few people restrict themselves to a max of 30g of carbs a meal and some people have less than 30g carbs all day to keep their BG in check.
> New potatoes are better than mature potatoes. Hope you had plenty of butter on them! Size of potatoes would determine how many carbs in that meal.
> 
> Did you have any breakfast? Any dessert or snacks?
> ...



Hi 

Yes I had new potatoes and generally have butter however we have green top milk (semi -skimmed) I often have egg or sardines on toast especially smoked salmon & scrambled. I like having porridge or oat based museli sometimes too. I was going to try All bran or weetabix as I haven’t had these for a while.

No snacks or breakfast as lunch was more brunch - lay in as Sat ! 

All the best MissDaisy


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## Deleted member 27171 (Jun 20, 2020)

Hi @Miss Daisy just wanted to say welcome to the forum. I can see you're already getting lots of advice about your diet. I hope its all useful and that you are able to get to the bottom of your other health problems too.


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## rebrascora (Jun 20, 2020)

You could try just half a slice of toast with the beans and see what it does to your BG levels, testing before and 2 hours after and have plenty of real butter on the half slice of toast and/or have some scrambled egg or cheese with it to bulk it out and fill you up. Fat and protein is the key to eating low carb. Don't be frightened of it. 
Eggs are almost equal portions of fat and protein with no carbs so a great food for us diabetics and sardines are a good choice... again all protein and fat. 

The idea is to make small changes, so whilst I am tempted to say ditch the beans and bread as they are both carb rich foods, you need to bring things down slowly, so half a slice of bread with the beans is a good first step. The egg or cheese don't add any carbs so you can take them or leave them but if you end up feeling hungry later and wanting to snack then it is not beneficial, even if you resist, because it just makes the changes harder to stick to. I am all for making things easy and enjoyable. If you do need to snack, a low carb option like I listed in a post above is best.


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## MissDaisy (Jun 20, 2020)

LucyDUK said:


> Hi @Miss Daisy just wanted to say welcome to the forum. I can see you're already getting lots of advice about your diet. I hope its all useful and that you are able to get to the bottom of your other health problems too.


Thank You for the welcome - yes Barbara is helping very much & I appreciate it @rebrascora 

I hope to find loads of info here


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## MissDaisy (Jun 20, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> You could try just half a slice of toast with the beans and see what it does to your BG levels, testing before and 2 hours after and have plenty of real butter on the half slice of toast and/or have some scrambled egg or cheese with it to bulk it out and fill you up. Fat and protein is the key to eating low carb. Don't be frightened of it.
> Eggs are almost equal portions of fat and protein with no carbs so a great food for us diabetics and sardines are a good choice... again all protein and fat.
> 
> The idea is to make small changes, so whilst I am tempted to say ditch the beans and bread as they are both carb rich foods, you need to bring things down slowly, so half a slice of bread with the beans is a good first step. The egg or cheese don't add any carbs so you can take them or leave them but if you end up feeling hungry later and wanting to snack then it is not beneficial, even if you resist, because it just makes the changes harder to stick to. I am all for making things easy and enjoyable. If you do need to snack, a low carb option like I listed in a post above is best.



 Thank You  You seem to (from your signature) have gone from diagnosed Type 2 to Type 1. How can I be sure that I am Type 2 as they didn’t do the blood test until now? Do many Type 2 then find out they are Type 1 or is this uncommon? Sorry to be so nosey LOL  hope you don’t mind me asking 

All the best

MissDaisy


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## grovesy (Jun 20, 2020)

MissDaisy said:


> Hi
> 
> Today I’ve had no sugar/low salt baked beans on brown bread at lunch and evening meal chicken, salad with 2 new potatoes - and done 30 mins exercise 10 warm up exercise and 20mins walking exercises. BG was 15.1 after lunch and after exercise 14.3. Only drink water & tea with no sugar.
> 
> ...


For a number of years low GI worked for me. Though over the years I have had to reassess and adjust what works for me. Sometimes it is not always what you eat it can be the portion size.
I have also found I have to eat what works for me and can maintain most of the time.


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## rebrascora (Jun 20, 2020)

Not at all nosey. It is really important to ask questions and understand things. Quite a lot of Type 1s get misdiagnosed as Type 2s because many Health Care Professionals believe that Type 1 only exhibits in children and young adults but there are plenty of us who developed it later in life.
I was a sugar addict and also ate a lot of bread and potatoes and (baked beans) pre diagnosis but was not excessively overweight as I have an active lifestyle. I was assumed Type 2 due to my age and self confessed unhealthy diet although there was always a question mark because I had sudden onset symptoms and rapid weight loss and my HbA1c the previous year had been normal which all point to Type 1.
I am actually quite pleased that I came into my diagnosis this way as I learned to eat low/very low carb and I feel this helped me to break my sugar addiction and find a healthier approach to food.
Interestingly I have not had a single migraine since I changed my diet and I can even have a glass or two of red wine (my main trigger) now without a problem. I was getting severe (vomiting and sometimes passing out) migraines almost once a month pre diagnosis. I was also struggling with joint pain to the point I was worried that a knee replacement was becoming necessary and again that stopped when I changed my diet. I get the odd twinge but not the everyday pain and inflammation that I had.... I have horses, so this was a big concern for me.

I was like most people in thinking it was just sugar that I needed to cut out, so when I started weeing for England day and night and drinking water like a drowning woman I cut out the sugar and sweets for a couple of weeks but I was still up 4-5x a night for pit stops. After 2 weeks I was knackered and contacted my GP who had blood tests done and my HbA1c came back as dangerously high 112. I started on Metformin and increased the dose and added Gliclazide and then I found this forum and started cutting my carbs as a result of the advice here until I eventually gave up on my morning porridge, which was my last carb rich food, and got my BG into single figures. Unfortunately a second HbA1c showed my reading had gone up instead of down and I was started on insulin.... caused a few tears as I felt that I had failed! Thankfully I was referred to a consultant who had been informed of my situation throughout this and he eventually sanctioned tests which confirmed I was Type 1.

I could now eat a "normal" diet and just inject as much insulin as I need to cover it but that comes with it's own issues and I know that there is a risk that I will go back to my old ways of eating too many carbs/sugar addiction and perhaps migraines and joint pain,  so I have stuck with my new Low Carb regime but introduced more fat into my diet and what amazes me is how little food I now need and how I can go all day and not feel hungry as a result of eating more fat. I start my day with a coffee made with double cream and every morning I sit and really relish that coffee! It tastes divine and how can I possible feel badly done to when I start the day on such a wonderful treat! ... this is the woman who would rather not drink coffee as drink it without sugar and I didn't spoon it in, I tipped it in!

Anyway, enough about me. The reason I asked about your weight was because sudden weight loss is one of the main differences between Type 1 and Type 2. High blood glucose in either type of diabetes can cause Tiredness, Thirst and frequent trips to the Toilet but becoming Thinner ie unexplained or easy weight loss, is usually the red flag for Type 1.  It is described as the 4 Ts.


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## silentsquirrel (Jun 20, 2020)

I seem to remember that BM stands for the ?German firm that made the first test strips. So the B isn't for blood!  I can't remember the name, but think @trophywench or another senior (in terms of D experience) member will know.  Strange that the term BMs persists among medics.


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## grovesy (Jun 20, 2020)

silentsquirrel said:


> I seem to remember that BM stands for the ?German firm that made the first test strips. So the B isn't for blood!  I can't remember the name, but think @trophywench or another senior (in terms of D experience) member will know.  Strange that the term BMs persists among medics.


It has been handed down as the term over the years and stuck.


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## rebrascora (Jun 20, 2020)

By the way, the lack of weight loss doesn't totally rule out you being something other than Type 2.... it is possible that you are LADA Latent Autoimmune Diabetes in Adults, which is a slow onset form of Type 1 often referred to as Type 1.5 and there are some rarer types like MODY which I don't know much about, but at the moment reducing your carb intake in the best that you can do to improve things until more tests can be done.


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## Bruce Stephens (Jun 20, 2020)

silentsquirrel said:


> I can't remember the name, but think @trophywench or another senior (in terms of D experience) member will know.



Wikipedia says it's Boehringer Mannheim (now part of Roche).


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## silentsquirrel (Jun 20, 2020)

Bruce Stephens said:


> Wikipedia says it's Boehringer Mannheim (now part of Roche).


Thanks, Bruce!


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## rebrascora (Jun 20, 2020)

Bruce Stephens said:


> Wikipedia says it's Boehringer Mannheim (now part of Roche).



Interesting and pleased the mystery has been solved (and I am enlightened) but I am still going to giggle a bit to myself when I see people talking about BMs 'cos giggling is good for the soul!


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## SB2015 (Jun 20, 2020)

MissDaisy said:


> Hi
> 
> How do you update profile to hide personal details and/or add signature please?
> 
> Thanks in advance


If you click on your name at the top when you are logged in it gives you the option of changing your signature and other details.

Come back if there are any difficulties wi5h this.


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## trophywench (Jun 20, 2020)

Why the term 'BM' ?  Because Boehringer (the pharmaceutical company in Germany) from their division situated in the location of Mannheim, so that branch of the co is always referred to as Boehringer Mannheim - were the first people to produce an easily available fingerprick blood glucose testing machine, so the testing strips themselves can also be called BM sticks.  It has nowt whatever to do with the words 'blood' or 'meter'.

The 'proper' name for such a machine is 'glucometer' anyway.

Bet you all wish you'd never asked!


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## everydayupsanddowns (Jun 21, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> I know some people refer to BG readings as BMs (not entirely sure what actual word the M stands for)





silentsquirrel said:


> I seem to remember that BM stands for the ?German firm that made the first test strips. So the B isn't for blood!  I can't remember the name, but think @trophywench or another senior (in terms of D experience) member will know.  Strange that the term BMs persists among medics.



Diabetes history lesson: BMs are BM Sticks, blood glucose strips made by Boehringer Mannheim, where you applied a hefty blood sample, waited 1 minute, wiped off the excess blood, waited one more minute... then attempted to match the two-coloured squares on the strip with a colour chart printed on the side of the pot.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Jun 21, 2020)

MissDaisy said:


> I think I need to get a food diary and start meticulously writing everything down! It sounds like I need to really change diet and GP suggested low GI however you guys mention it’s not the answer for all.




A food diary is an excellent idea @MissDaisy  

Many members find that an excellent way of beginning to assess and adjust their menu - particularly if you can pair it with ‘before and after’ BG readings. Take a BG reading just before and then 2hours after the first bite, to observe the ‘meal rise’. The numbers themselves dont’t matter so much to begin with, so don‘t worry if they are higher than you’d like.  It’s more important to get the rises as small as you can. Ideally only 2-3mmol/L different. That way your general BG levels will come down gradually in time.

Oh... and to tag a member in your posts, simply type an @ sign and follow it with their username, the system will then turn that into a link to their profile, and send them a notification


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## MissDaisy (Jun 21, 2020)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> A food diary is an excellent idea @MissDaisy
> 
> Many members find that an excellent way of beginning to assess and adjust their menu - particularly if you can pair it with ‘before and after’ BG readings. Take a BG reading just before and then 2hours after the first bite, to observe the ‘meal rise’. The numbers themselves dont’t matter so much to begin with, so don‘t worry if they are higher than you’d like.  It’s more important to get the rises as small as you can. Ideally only 2-3mmol/L different. That way your general BG levels will come down gradually in time.
> 
> Oh... and to tag a member in your posts, simply type an @ sign and follow it with their username, the system will then turn that into a link to their profile, and send them a notification



Thank You so much for your reply & encouragement - BG 12.8 before eating this morning so I’ll see what it’s like after a little porridge


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## MissDaisy (Jun 21, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> By the way, the lack of weight loss doesn't totally rule out you being something other than Type 2.... it is possible that you are LADA Latent Autoimmune Diabetes in Adults, which is a slow onset form of Type 1 often referred to as Type 1.5 and there are some rarer types like MODY which I don't know much about, but at the moment reducing your carb intake in the best that you can do to improve things until more tests can be done.


Morning Barbara,

Thank you for both replies about this and about Diabetes 1.5 - as I may have autoimmune conditions it could be a possibility to keep in mind.

I forgot to mention since starting the Metformin I have had some weight loss, enough to notice my trousers to be baggy around the waist! I assumed however this was due to the fact I eat less, move more and my body is getting vitamins/energy in the correct way now sugars are down. Or is this reason not usually the case? 

Could it be possible I have Type 1 with no family history and as the BG reading a are so uncontrolled despite 4 Metformin a day?

I hope your having a lovely morning & sleep well - I certainly did.

I look forward to your reply

Sending all the best MissDaisy


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## everydayupsanddowns (Jun 21, 2020)

MissDaisy said:


> Could it be possible I have Type 1 with no family history and as the BG reading a are so uncontrolled despite 4 Metformin a day?



Yes it’s certainly possible - and T1 can develop at any stage of life, not just in childhood.

Already having other autoimmune conditions does increase risk of developing T1 I believe.

Weight loss can be a symptom of T1 - it is one of the 4Ts (toilet, tired, thirsty, thinner), so it is certainly worth keeping an open mind. See how your BG responds if you have a few ‘low carb‘ days. 

There are no hard and fast rules for what constitures low carb, for some people it will be less than 100g during the day, for others less than 50g!


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## MissDaisy (Jun 21, 2020)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Yes it’s certainly possible - and T1 can develop at any stage of life, not just in childhood.
> 
> Already having other autoimmune conditions does increase risk of developing T1 I believe.
> 
> ...



Hi Mike,

Ah that’s what 4Ts mean, well thirsty, a little thinner (since Metformin started only tho), always tired & fatigue with Fibro (first they said I had ME as well but I think it was a combination of Fibro & Diabetes looking back now) and not noticed extra toilet trips.

I’m planning to speak to DR on Monday about my HbA1c result.

Thanks again MissDaisy


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## everydayupsanddowns (Jun 21, 2020)

MissDaisy said:


> and not noticed extra toilet trips.



Toilet trips are associated with the additional thirst. Once your BG rises above the ‘renal threshold’ (approx 10mmol/L) your body tries to flush out the extra glucose by excreting it in urine. Which leads to increased urination... which leads to increased thirst...

In the middle ages diabetes was known as ‘the p*ssing evil’


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## rebrascora (Jun 21, 2020)

Metformin can help with weight loss as an appetite suppressant and together with the diet and increased activity you have been following since Nov, it may just be that, but yes it is possible that you are Type 1... or LADA ...both amount to the same thing, but LADA has a more gentle onset. 
As Mike says, if you take your carbs right down and still get high readings, that would make it significantly more likely and if you keep a food diary with your readings then your Health Care Professionals will be able to see that you have more than done your bit.... Unfortunately your doctor may not know that Type 1 can exhibit in adulthood and probably will not have heard of LADA, so it can sometimes be tricky treading a fine line without telling them their job. I had a rather dodgy phone conversation with my GP in which I ended up saying something like, the people here on the forum thought I should be on insulin and as you can imagine that went down like a lead balloon! Try to get referred to a specialist. Of course outpatient appointments are not happening at the moment but hopefully that will improve soon. 
Your GP may start you on Gliclazide as well as the Metformin to see if that will work. That was the next stage for me before they eventually prescribed insulin.


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## rebrascora (Jun 21, 2020)

With the weight loss, I remember looking down at my arms and legs one day and not recognising them as mine. My forearms were so skinny and my wrists like sparrows ankles. I have dieted before and lost a significant amount of weight but I have not lost it in those places to that extent. It was very noticeable over a period of a few weeks.


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## MissDaisy (Jun 21, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> Metformin can help with weight loss as an appetite suppressant and together with the diet and increased activity you have been following since Nov, it may just be that, but yes it is possible that you are Type 1... or LADA ...both amount to the same thing, but LADA has a more gentle onset.
> As Mike says, if you take your carbs right down and still get high readings, that would make it significantly more likely and if you keep a food diary with your readings then your Health Care Professionals will be able to see that you have more than done your bit.... Unfortunately your doctor may not know that Type 1 can exhibit in adulthood and probably will not have heard of LADA, so it can sometimes be tricky treading a fine line without telling them their job. I had a rather dodgy phone conversation with my GP in which I ended up saying something like, the people here on the forum thought I should be on insulin and as you can imagine that went down like a lead balloon! Try to get referred to a specialist. Of course outpatient appointments are not happening at the moment but hopefully that will improve soon.
> Your GP may start you on Gliclazide as well as the Metformin to see if that will work. That was the next stage for me before they eventually prescribed insulin.


 
Hi Barbara,

You could be right and that it’s the very small changes plus Metformin that’s behind the minimal weight loss. I must admit I do not own scales so only going by my baggy clothing! 

I think you’re right I should keep all possibilities in mind though. I’ll ring about my HbA1c result tomorrow and see what they say.

I really appreciate all the great advice and support I’ve had since joining! 

Have a lovely Sunday  MissDaisy


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## MissDaisy (Jun 21, 2020)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Toilet trips are associated with the additional thirst. Once your BG rises above the ‘renal threshold’ (approx 10mmol/L) your body tries to flush out the extra glucose by excreting it in urine. Which leads to increased urination... which leads to increased thirst...
> 
> In the middle ages diabetes was known as ‘the p*ssing evil’



 Hi Mike,

Yes you’d have thought I’d have noticed more trips to the WC, if drinking more water but I honestly didn’t! I think I (sorry if TMI) just spent more that a penny each time (ie more than usual) 

I definitely need to find out my HbA1c results as you guys say, unsure why they didn’t do it in hospital in Nov but hey ho!

Thanks again  MissDaisy


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## MissDaisy (Jun 21, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> With the weight loss, I remember looking down at my arms and legs one day and not recognising them as mine. My forearms were so skinny and my wrists like sparrows ankles. I have dieted before and lost a significant amount of weight but I have not lost it in those places to that extent. It was very noticeable over a period of a few weeks.



Hi Barbara,

I feel it’s noticeable and also swelling of joints has decreased too - I’m sure I was starting to get some fluid retention. 

Anyway on the right road now, just need to keep that food diary, taking BGs and find out my HbA1c. One question, how many months apart should they be taking another HbA1c or does it depend on the result? I think mine will be high .....so I’m assuming the 2nd will be sooner rather than later?

Many Thanks for your replies  MissDaisy


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## rebrascora (Jun 21, 2020)

Just to put you a bit more in the picture, your HbA1c result will just give you an idea of where on the diabetic scale you are and it is unfortunate that they didn't do one in Nov as that might have given you an idea of how much improvement, if any, you have made through your diet and exercise (and medication) and been another point to push for more testing if there had been little or no improvement. The tests that you would want done to confirm Type1 or LADA would be GAD antibody and C-peptide tests. One of them the blood sample has to be frozen soon after being drawn and sent off to a special lab so it is not often done at the doctors surgery and I had to go to the main hospital for mine. The testing is more expensive than standard HbA1c so GPs can be reluctant.... but mostly they are often just lacking in knowledge about diabetes in general and particularly Type 1 as they see so few patients.


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## rebrascora (Jun 21, 2020)

Less than 3 months between HbA1c tests can be considered pointless but they took my second one 5 weeks after the first because I was so high and started me on insulin at 6 weeks.


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## MissDaisy (Jun 21, 2020)

Thank you  or this info RE testing and I think I’ve made a little progress as BGs were 17 when diagnosed and sent home on 1 Metformin. However, as you say I need to eat low carb and see what happens....... nearly 2 hours since porridge so will be interesting to see BG level is now.

MissDaisy


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## MissDaisy (Jun 21, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> Less than 3 months between HbA1c tests can be considered pointless but they took my second one 5 weeks after the first because I was so high and started me on insulin at 6 weeks.



Okie dokie ... understood so all depends on what it is! Guess we’ll know tomorrow


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## MissDaisy (Jun 21, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> Less than 3 months between HbA1c tests can be considered pointless but they took my second one 5 weeks after the first because I was so high and started me on insulin at 6 weeks.



BG after small bowl of plain porridge is 17.4 from 12.8 so guessing that’s not a breakfast option! Or might it be in the future if they get my meds right? 

Was going to maybe make some soup for lunch with 1 slice of bread however I’m thinking that’s out the window !

It’s tricky isn’t it ?!

MissDaisy


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## rebrascora (Jun 21, 2020)

Yes that is a higher rise than you want. How much porridge oats did you use and what type?

Digital kitchen scales are really important for weighing out carb rich foods like cereals. I would try half of whatever portion you used and bulk it out with some nuts and seeds and some creamy thick natural yoghurt next time. Jumbo oats can be better than normal porridge oats because they are less processed and can release slower, so that might be something to try if you really love porridge.
Breakfast time can be particularly difficult because something called Dawn Phenomenon often adds to your BG levels. This is where the liver chucks out some extra glucose into the blood stream to get you going.... believed to be a throw back to prehistoric days when we didn't have cupboards and fridges, so we needed energy to go out and forage or hunt down a woolly mammoth for breakfast. For some people it starts happening at dawn which is obviously pretty early at this time of year and for other lucky ones like me, it waits until I get out of bed on a morning, regardless of what time that is and I then inject some insulin to cover it. That may well be inflating your morning readings and can be one reason why a very low carb breakfast (like an omelette) is beneficial, so that you are not adding to it. The porridge may well keep your levels inflated for 7 or 8 hours if you are like me. It was only when I cut it from my menu that my levels dropped into single figures.

If you end up on insulin then of course you will be able to go back to eating whatever you want, within reason, but it comes with it's own set of issues as you probably know from your Dad's experience.


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## MissDaisy (Jun 21, 2020)

Hi Barbara,

Good to know about the Dawn Phenomenon - Dad could eat porridge when diet controlled in fact it helped in all areas of his health due to it’s benefits.

I used only handful of normal loose porridge oats 1/2 water 1/2 milk (only have semi skimmed in ATM) and had ate only 1/2, as a family member ate the other. 

I’ll try eating one slice of bread plus sardines or egg tomorrow. Starting the day at 12.8 isn’t helpful, maybe they will add gliclazide.

I think I’ll wait until tea now and try to do my 30mins exercise if I can. It’s quite easy to do however it’s the fatigue afterwards & the bath, skin dressings and cream application that is hard. 

Ah well we struggle on !

MissDaisy


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## rebrascora (Jun 21, 2020)

Don't over exert yourself when your readings are high. A gentle walk if you are able is all you should be doing with BG levels in the teens and did you get my tag in the other thread about asking your GP for some Ketostix when you speak to him/her tomorrow. You need to be able to test for ketones when your BG levels hit mid teens and definitely if they go higher. If they won't prescribe some, they can be purchased for about £5 I believe from a pharmacy, but they really should provide you with some. Like @Karen in the other thread, if you start to feel unwell, abdominal pain or respiratory distress or your breath smells funky and your BG levels go through the roof, get yourself to hospital.


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## KARNAK (Jun 21, 2020)

Hello @MissDaisy welcome to the forum. 

I see you have built up a nice repour with Barbara (@rebrascora)? that's what we like to see members 
interacting with each other. Stay safe.


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## rebrascora (Jun 21, 2020)

@KARNAK Good to see you on board this morning.... err afternoon! How is the head? I had to drink your half of the rum last night because you didn't show up! Hope you don't have a birthday hangover!.... Not seen you post in the 7 day Fasting thread yet?? Was it too bad to publish your reading today?? We will be sympathetic... Hugs!


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## MissDaisy (Jun 21, 2020)

KARNAK said:


> Hello @MissDaisy welcome to the forum.
> 
> I see you have built up a nice repour with Barbara (@rebrascora)? that's what we like to see members
> interacting with each other. Stay safe.



Hi Karnak,

Thank You for your reply - everyone’s been great & I’ve installed the app Nutricheck someone mentioned. Such a great way to count carbs and record food diary.

@rebrascora Barbara is  lovely! Friendly, supportive and understanding plus has advice to share. 

All the best MissDaisy


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## rebrascora (Jun 21, 2020)

"@rebrascora Barbara is  lovely! Friendly, supportive and understanding plus has advice to share."

Thanks, but I am just paying forward the help and support and knowledge that I was kindly given my other members here a year ago, so it is the forum as a whole which should be credited.  

Most of us remember that feeling of being overwhelmed by our diagnosis and confused because there is so much conflicting information and wanting someone to just tell us what is the right thing to do and why or just simply....Tell me what to eat!"
For me, the key is understanding the reason for that advice, so I can make an educated decision. I am not one to follow blindly but neither am I a rebel. If I am going to go against official advice, I really need to know all the arguments behind it, both ways ..... especially with something like eating low carb and higher fat. Explaining it to others, I learn a little more myself, so it is a bit of a win win.


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## MissDaisy (Jun 21, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> "@rebrascora Barbara is  lovely! Friendly, supportive and understanding plus has advice to share."
> 
> Thanks, but I am just paying forward the help and support and knowledge that I was kindly given my other members here a year ago, so it is the forum as a whole which should be credited.
> 
> ...



Of course, but you’ve been a gem to me and perhaps I can help others with advice one day (as you say - paying it forward)

I’m confused as my BG after 30min exercise has gone from 17.4 to 9.6, usually only drops 1 or 2 with exercise and so don’t know what’s going on! Any ideas? 

I’m not complaining as probably lowest I’ve even been but it’s quite a drop! 

Any help appreciated as always 

MissDaisy


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## MissDaisy (Jun 21, 2020)

I’ve been using emojis all this time on phone keyboard & just realised they only work from here ...... doh!!!


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## grovesy (Jun 21, 2020)

MissDaisy said:


> Of course, but you’ve been a gem to me and perhaps I can help others with advice one day (as you say - paying it forward)
> 
> I’m confused as my BG after 30min exercise has gone from 17.4 to 9.6, usually only drops 1 or 2 with exercise and so don’t know what’s going on! Any ideas?
> 
> ...


Sometimes with exercise the drop can vary with type of exercise and duration.


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## MissDaisy (Jun 21, 2020)

Hi Grovesy,

Thank You for your reply   

It’s my normal 30mins a time the same pace so I’m baffled as yesterday it went from high 15s to 14. Strange lol  I will mention to the DR tomorrow.

Hope you’ve had a good day

MissDaisy


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## grovesy (Jun 21, 2020)

MissDaisy said:


> Hi Grovesy,
> 
> Thank You for your reply
> 
> ...


I don't always get the same response to what I eat or exercise I  do.


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## MissDaisy (Jun 21, 2020)

grovesy said:


> I don't always get the same response to what I eat or exercise I  do.



Gosh! Well I don’t know then ..... I suppose it means lots of food diaries & BG monitoring ahead ! Eek ....it really does make you realise what a great body we have when all is working well ..


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## rebrascora (Jun 21, 2020)

Despite all our modern technology and medicines and synthesised insulin, we still struggle to take over the work of a happily functioning pancreas with more finesse than a sledgehammer being used to crack a walnut.... Diabetes gives you a huge appreciation for how clever the pancreas and body in general is at balancing all the chemicals and hormones and bodily functions in so many different circumstances. 
There are something like 42 variables which can affect BG levels. Your exercise is only one of those variables. Yesterday, you didn't have any breakfast but you had lunch, so the timing of food compared to when you did your exercise may have been different. That could make a significant difference.


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## MissDaisy (Jun 22, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> Despite all our modern technology and medicines and synthesised insulin, we still struggle to take over the work of a happily functioning pancreas with more finesse than a sledgehammer being used to crack a walnut.... Diabetes gives you a huge appreciation for how clever the pancreas and body in general is at balancing all the chemicals and hormones and bodily functions in so many different circumstances.
> There are something like 42 variables which can affect BG levels. Your exercise is only one of those variables. Yesterday, you didn't have any breakfast but you had lunch, so the timing of food compared to when you did your exercise may have been different. That could make a significant difference.



Indeed  - glad I joined here!

GP rang today HbA1c was 87 and cholesterol 5.7. She said do LCHF too and said things should settle & hopefully both figures with go down with time. Review in 2 weeks   

Thanks again for all your help 

MissDaisy


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## rebrascora (Jun 22, 2020)

Wow! You have an up to date, "state of the art" GP!! Very unusual for anyone in the NHS to recommend LCHF! Nice to hear and hope that change is happening! 
My Cholesterol was about the same and has reduced a bit since going LCHF but the ratio is good so they were not concerned that it was in the 5s.

87 is certainly higher than you would like but at least not triple figures. Good that they are going to review in 2 weeks. Did she or you mention the possibility of Type 1 or LADA? Quite surprised that they haven't gone for Gliclazide, but that's not a bad thing.... I'm not keen on the idea of flogging a dead horse or a live one that is struggling for that matter!... just my opinion.


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## MissDaisy (Jun 23, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> Wow! You have an up to date, "state of the art" GP!! Very unusual for anyone in the NHS to recommend LCHF! Nice to hear and hope that change is happening!
> My Cholesterol was about the same and has reduced a bit since going LCHF but the ratio is good so they were not concerned that it was in the 5s.
> 
> 87 is certainly higher than you would like but at least not triple figures. Good that they are going to review in 2 weeks. Did she or you mention the possibility of Type 1 or LADA? Quite surprised that they haven't gone for Gliclazide, but that's not a bad thing.... I'm not keen on the idea of flogging a dead horse or a live one that is struggling for that matter!... just my opinion.


 
Hi Barbara,

Sorry for late reply ..... I was impressed by her too! It’s a GP I haven’t spoke not to before but she seems really on the ball and really supportive.   

I didn’t mention LADA or Type 1, thought best to mention on 2 week review if BGs aren’t responding. She took time to go through things and was even really understanding about my skin. 

I was kind of happy it was 87 as I really thought it would be over 100! Thanks so much for checking in on me  x

Just had homemade spicy carrot soup for lunch with 1 slice of bread - so slowly getting used to LCHF. The soup was yummy and my family said they really enjoyed it too!

Hope you are enjoying the sunny day

MissDaisy


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## MissDaisy (Jul 21, 2020)

Hi @rebrascora

Just wanted to update you on my situation, the dermatology started 10mg daily Prednisolone for a week then 5mg next week plus Doxycycline. Obviously, the steroid therapy has meant my BG has gone up again although the lowest reading I got was 6.2 after exercise and never under 9 despite doing LCHF. They are starting 40mg Glipizide to try to bring them down further.I have been told to watch for hypos plus also Derm ordered more bloods (CRP, ESA and Neutrophils raised slightly still)and further biopsies.

I have a cheap smart watch and I have been exercising as regularly as possible and most days reaching my 8K steps - just got back from country walk did 4K steps!

Anyway, hope you are all good and finding Libre helpful

All the best

MissDaisy


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## grovesy (Jul 21, 2020)

Considering you are on Steriods those levels are pretty good many find with steroids it puts them in double digits.


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## rebrascora (Jul 21, 2020)

Hi 
Thanks for the update. Sounds like you are doing really well in the circumstances. Steroids are sometimes a necessary evil when it comes to BG levels but hopefully the Gliclazide will help to counteract them. Well done on the exercise. I am trying to make a more regular routine of running, which is not something I have ever found easy, but I know it helps.
Libre is great although I had my last one come adrift 6 days early so they are sending me a replacement. 

I had a frustrating day today. I went to do my big fortnightly shop this afternoon and as I was loading the shopping into the car I felt a bit wobbly. Used the Libre to check and levels were coming down gently according to it but still mid 5s. Finished packing shopping into car and put trolley back and checked again and I was 4.7 (too low to drive so ate a jelly baby and waited but went lower instead of higher. Had another jelly baby and checked with a finger prick... still too low. It took 4 jelly babies a dextrose tablet and an hour with my shopping, including frozen stuff, sitting in a warm car, before I got up to 5 on my BG meter (although still below 5 on the LIbre) and then of course my BG had sky rocketed by the time I got home 10 mins later... Arrgh! Sometimes diabetes is such a pain! That will no doubt be the effect of my new regular exercise routine starting to kick in after 3 days. Will have to reduce basal insulin tomorrow.


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## rebrascora (Jul 22, 2020)

Thanks for clarifying that SS. So I can drive with a reading of 4 provided I have had a carby snack. There have been a few occasions when I have got in the car to go to an appointment and been in the 4s and sat impatiently testing every 10 mins to see when I had come up, so that I could be on my way, so this info is really helpful for the future. 
On this occasion, I was obviously plummeting quite quickly to feel it when I was mid 4s and for it not to come up with the first, second or even third jelly baby so probably best that I waited it out until I could be sure I had prevented the impending hypo.


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## silentsquirrel (Jul 22, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> Thanks for clarifying that SS. So I can drive with a reading of 4 provided I have had a carby snack. There have been a few occasions when I have got in the car to go to an appointment and been in the 4s and sat impatiently testing every 10 mins to see when I had come up, so that I could be on my way, so this info is really helpful for the future.
> On this occasion, I was obviously plummeting quite quickly to feel it when I was mid 4s and for it not to come up with the first, second or even third jelly baby so probably best that I waited it out until I could be sure I had prevented the impending hypo.


Yes, probably best.

Several times I have tested between 4 and 5, so grabbed a biscuit with the car keys.

The annoying thing is if you are under 4, you can't just wait till you reach 5, you have to wait another 45 mins after that.


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## rebrascora (Jul 22, 2020)

silentsquirrel said:


> Yes, probably best.
> 
> Several times I have tested between 4 and 5, so grabbed a biscuit with the car keys.
> 
> The annoying thing is if you are under 4, you can't just wait till you reach 5, you have to wait another 45 mins after that.



And of course a difference of 0.1 is well within the error margin of a meter so 3.9 could easily be 4.0 but I guess they have to draw the line somewhere.


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## MissDaisy (Jul 22, 2020)

grovesy said:


> Considering you are on Steriods those levels are pretty good many find with steroids it puts them in double digits.


Hi Grovesy,

Sorry to confuse yes they are above 20 when I had them down to the BG readings I mentioned. Start Gliclazide soon due to the steroid therapy and as they wouldn’t go down under 9. 

MissDaisy


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