# Million drivers face losing licence under EU diabetes diktat



## Northerner

Up to one million people with diabetes could lose their driving licences because of harsh new European rules classifying them as unfit to drive.
Experts claim the ?unnecessarily strict? changes will affect hundreds of thousands who have been driving for decades without problems.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...nce-EU-diabetes-diktat.html?ito=feeds-newsxml


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## hotchop

As long as the law is applied fairly and consistantly, I see no issue with this.

All road users have a duty of care to themselves and other road users and pedestrians to ensure that they are in optimum condition to drive a ton metal thing on wheels.

Im sure we have all read of accidents where people have been killed due to irresponsibility of the driver or sudden hypos.

I certainly dont want to be a statistic or cause a statistic and whilst I dont consider myself a risk to others, some people may disagree


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## Northerner

hotchop said:


> As long as the law is applied fairly and consistantly, I see no issue with this.
> 
> All road users have a duty of care to themselves and other road users and pedestrians to ensure that they are in optimum condition to drive a ton metal thing on wheels.
> 
> Im sure we have all read of accidents where people have been killed due to irresponsibility of the driver or sudden hypos.
> 
> I certainly dont want to be a statistic or cause a statistic and whilst I dont consider myself a risk to others, some people may disagree



I do agree with you about safety being paramount. I think the issue is that the DVLA have embellished the rules by saying that nocturnal hypos also count. Whilst people can check that they are perfectly safe to drive by testing before and during, and taking carbs as necessary, a night hypo can hit you without you having had the opportunity to check and ensure your levels are up (by its very nature). As the EU directive doesn't call for this I think this is totally unfair - it assumes that someone who has the odd night hypo can have sudden, inexplicable hypos at any time which simply isn't true. The story is illustrated with such an example.


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## Marc

But I get hypo warnings way above 4 sometimes even 5 and can quite happily manage 'driving' a radio desk well upto about 3mmol if needed too.

Marc


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## Marc

I'm worried about this is this just dissabling hypos?

Marc


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## Northerner

Marc said:


> I'm worried about this is this just dissabling hypos?
> 
> Marc



Yes, it's when you need the assistance of others Marc.


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## Marc

Northerner said:


> Yes, it's when you need the assistance of others Marc.



Cheers Northerner really worried me cos I have loads of hypos but never need any help as I said I have driven a radio desk because no one else was around when I was at about 3mmol while treating a hypo.

Marc


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## Pumper_Sue

Northerner said:


> Yes, it's when you need the assistance of others Marc.



This isn't strictly true. If you have loads of hypo's even without needing help, you are classed as not in control of your diabetes and can be told to stop driving.


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## Marc

I'm down now to less than one a week.

Marc


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## Northerner

Pumper_Sue said:


> This isn't strictly true. If you have loads of hypo's even without needing help, you are classed as not in control of your diabetes and can be told to stop driving.



Indeed - I was referring to the new ruling. Someone with general poor control was hopefully already identified as not fit to drive prior to this.



Marc said:


> I'm down now to less than one a week.
> 
> Marc



I think that before the new rules if you had generally good control and followed DVLA guidelines (http://www.dft.gov.uk/dvla/medical/ataglance.aspx)
 then your license was safe. The contentious issue is whether nocturnal hypos should be counted, even if these are the only hypos requiring assistance that have been experienced.

None of this really concerns me personally (except in the general public safety sense) as I don't drive. Nor, I must say, would it affect me even if I did drive - were I to have a night hypo needing assistance there's no-one to help me anyway other than myself.


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## margie

For anyone is not sure and wish to drive a vehicle rather than a static piece of electronic equipment the following is the DVLA Advice

Blood sugar greater than 4 or less than 5 have a snack before driving.
Blood sugar less than 4 treat the hypo - once you are no longer hypo wait at least 45 minutes before driving as your brain need time to recover.

I am not 100% sure which category a blood sugar of 4 falls into but for driving purposes I would treat it as a hypo as the meter could be over reading.


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## Pumper_Sue

http://www.dft.gov.uk/dvla//medical/aag_updates.aspx click on the june 11 update at a glance section for full details.

*Revised June 2011
DIABINF
A Guide to Insulin Treated Diabetes and Driving
Drivers who have any form of diabetes treated with any insulin preparation must inform DVLA
HYPOGLYCAEMIA (LOW BLOOD SUGAR)
The risk of hypoglycaemia (low blood sugar) is the main hazard to safe driving. This may endanger your own life as well as that of other road users. Many of the accidents caused by hypoglycaemia are because drivers continue to drive even though they are experiencing warning signs of hypoglycaemia. If you experience warning signs of hypoglycaemia whilst driving you must always stop as soon as safely possible ? do not ignore the warning signs.
DRIVERS WITH INSULIN TREATED DIABETES ARE ADVISED TO TAKE THE FOLLOWING PRECAUTIONS:
? You must always carry your glucose meter and blood glucose strips with you and check your blood glucose before driving (even on short journeys). On long journeys you should test regulary (every 2 hours).
? In each case if your blood glucose is 5.0mmol/l or less, take a snack. If lt is less than 4.0mmo1/1 or you feel hypoglycaemic do not drive.
? If hypoglycaemia develops while driving stop the vehicle as soon as possible in a safe location, switch off the engine, remove the keys from the ignition and move from the drivers seat.
? Do not resume driving until 45 minutes after blood glucose has returned to normal. It takes up to 45 minutes for the brain to fully recover.
? Always keep an emergency supply of fast-acting carbohydrate such as glucose tablets or sweets within easy reach in the vehicle.
? Carry personal identification indicating that you have diabetes in case of injury in a road traffic accident.
? Particular care should be taken during changes of insulin regimens, changes of lifestyle, exercise, travel and pregnancy.
? Take regular meals, snacks and rest periods on long journeys. Always avoid alcohol.
EYESIGHT
All drivers are required by law to read, in good daylight, a car number plate from a distance of 20 metres or 20.5 metres where the old style number plate is used.
LIMB PROBLEMS
Limb problems/amputations are unlikely to prevent driving. They may be overcome by either restricting driving to certain types of vehicles e.g. those with automatic transmission, or by adaptations such as hand operated accelerator/brake.
YOU MUST INFORM DVLA IF:
? you suffer more than one episode of disabling hypoglycaemia (requirig the assistance of another person)within the last 12 months, or if you or your carer feels you are at high risk of developing disabling hypoglycaemia.
? you develop impaired awareness of hypoglycaemia. (difficulty in recognising the warning symptoms of low blood sugar)
? you suffer disabling hypoglycaemia while driving.
? an existing medical condition gets worse or you develop any other condition that may affect you driving safely.
CONTACT US
Web site: http://www.dvla.gov.uk/motoring
Tel: 0300 790 6806 (8.00am. to 5.30pm. Mon ? Fri) & (8.00 am. to 1pm. Saturday)
Write: Drivers Medical Group, DVLA, Swansea SA99 1TU
E-mail: eftd@dvla.gsi.gov.uk Rev: April 11*


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## margie

Thanks Sue


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## HelenM

The directive came about as the result of the proposals of a working group of 10. Two of these ten were from the UK,  as was the external consultant, so I suggest the UK had more influence than any other country, 
For many countries their regulations have been considerably tightened as a result of this directive, (eg where I live there were no regulations in place for car licences for  people who developed insulin dependence after a first licence (unless they had an accident) People with licences from Europe are free to drive in the UK and vice versa, it makes sense to make the requirements similar.

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/behavior/doc/diabetes_and_driving_in_europe_final_1_en.pdf


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## cherrypie

http://www.diabetes.org.uk/About_us...er-EU-rules-on-driving-and-diabetes-welcomed/

Looks like the DVLA is asking for more clarification from the E.U.


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## Robster65

You'd imagine they would have done that already. Maybe someone's actually thought it through and had an "arrrrrrrrrrrrrr" moment. 

Rob


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## AlisonF

Robster65 said:


> You'd imagine they would have done that already.
> Rob



Sadly not Rob, I think a lot of this stuff tends to be pushed through without sufficient thought going into it. 

I suspect part of the reason we've gone back to the EU to questions it is because Diabetes UK and people with diabetes have been writing to their MP's and lobbying the Transport Minister to get them to interpret these guidelines sensibly.


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## Robster65

AlisonF said:


> Sadly not Rob, I think a lot of this stuff tends to be pushed through without sufficient thought going into it.
> 
> I suspect part of the reason we've gone back to the EU to questions it is because Diabetes UK and people with diabetes have been writing to their MP's and lobbying the Transport Minister to get them to interpret these guidelines sensibly.


 
I agree alison. They were prob faced with a huge fine if they didn't comply, so rushed it to get off the hook and hoped no one would care.

Wrong !!! 

Rob


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## trophywench

EU regs this and EU regs that, yet visit the rest of the EU and nobody but nobody applies the rules as strictly as we do.


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## Robster65

that seems to be the issue. we've applied the rules rather too enthusiastically. sublime to ridiculous. 

rob


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