# Low-carb diets linked to atherosclerosis and impaired blood vessel growth



## Northerner (Aug 25, 2009)

Thought this might be interesting to those considering low-carbing. I think this sort of thing illustrates that balance is the key, and any tendency towards one extreme or another has the potential for unexpected side-effects. Just my opinion!

http://www.harvardscience.harvard.e...erosclerosis-and-impaired-blood-vessel-growth


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## insulinaddict09 (Aug 25, 2009)

Northerner said:


> Thought this might be interesting to those considering low-carbing. I think this sort of thing illustrates that balance is the key, and any tendency towards one extreme or another has the potential for unexpected side-effects. Just my opinion!
> 
> http://www.harvardscience.harvard.e...erosclerosis-and-impaired-blood-vessel-growth



Thanks for the link Northerner  If I keel over from a Heart Attack  you know whats done it lol


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## Corrine (Aug 26, 2009)

Crikey - just when you think you got it sussed someone puts a spanner in the works!  Thanks Northerner.


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## Copepod (Aug 26, 2009)

I'd suggest reading the paper before drawing conclusions and applying to humans with diabetes - young mice, not humans; no mention of whether or not they had diabetes.


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## rossi_mac (Aug 26, 2009)

I have another point, to avoid the worry of all these tests surveys studies, don't read a thing!!!!  

Ignorance is bliss, hmm maybe a new signature line?


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## Corrine (Aug 27, 2009)

Good plan Rossi - I'll be taking your advice!


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## C*5_Dodger (Aug 27, 2009)

Northerner said:


> Thought this might be interesting to those considering low-carbing. I think this sort of thing illustrates that balance is the key, and any tendency towards one extreme or another has the potential for unexpected side-effects. Just my opinion!
> 
> http://www.harvardscience.harvard.e...erosclerosis-and-impaired-blood-vessel-growth



Dear Northerner,

Very interesting - especially if you are genetically manipulated mouse.This apoE-/- mouse is a genetic cripple who's ability to process fat has been severely damaged. So it is hardly surprising that that it had high levels of atherosclerosis!

Regards   Dodger


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## Northerner (Aug 27, 2009)

C*5_Dodger said:


> Dear Northerner,
> 
> Very interesting - especially if you are genetically manipulated mouse.This apoE-/- mouse is a genetic cripple who's ability to process fat has been severely damaged. So it is hardly surprising that that it had high levels of atherosclerosis!
> 
> Regards   Dodger



As always Dodger, an informed counterpoint to the findings! Studies in mice don't really worry me, but it's good to know that research is being done, however flawed it may be initially in its findings and their application to humans.


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## Copepod (Aug 27, 2009)

Copepod said:


> I'd suggest reading the paper before drawing conclusions and applying to humans with diabetes - young mice, not humans; no mention of whether or not they had diabetes.



I tried to mention that the study concerned mice, too!


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## insulinaddict09 (Aug 28, 2009)

Copepod said:


> I'd suggest reading the paper before drawing conclusions and applying to humans with diabetes - young mice, not humans; no mention of whether or not they had diabetes.





Copepod said:


> I tried to mention that the study concerned mice, too!



I noticed that you picked up on the Mouse aspect ! As I am a Low Carber and not a Mouse I am not overly concerned  As you have rightfully pointed out , this was a study on Mice not Humans and it also does not say if the Mice were Diabetic or not.


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## Copepod (Aug 28, 2009)

Insulin Addict (not a mouse, of unknown diabetes status!) Much as I like mice, I'm more interested in humans, so I don't think this study will have any impact on my considerations of low carb diet - last night's omelette with duck eggs and tomatoes from garden, and mushrooms was lovely.


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## insulinaddict09 (Aug 28, 2009)

Copepod said:


> Insulin Addict (not a mouse, of unknown diabetes status!) Much as I like mice, I'm more interested in humans, so I don't think this study will have any impact on my considerations of low carb diet - last night's omelette with duck eggs and tomatoes from garden, and mushrooms was lovely.



I totally agree , it had no bearing on my omelette lastnight either ... or my Prawn salad today  Or any other of my Low Carb meals planned for the next few days


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## Copepod (Aug 29, 2009)

Our garden has considerable influence on our diet (partner without diabetes and me) - when ducks get laying, we eat eggs, when tomatoes, beans, peas, courgettes, raspberries, strawberries, blackcurrants, potatoes, sweet corn etc are ready, we eat them, plus blackberries from bushes on the commons and apples & plums from orchard where I work. Onions last, beans can be frozen, but other things have to be eaten fresh. That's the real world for you, and I like it!


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## insulinaddict09 (Aug 29, 2009)

Copepod said:


> Our garden has considerable influence on our diet (partner without diabetes and me) - when ducks get laying, we eat eggs, when tomatoes, beans, peas, courgettes, raspberries, strawberries, blackcurrants, potatoes, sweet corn etc are ready, we eat them, plus blackberries from bushes on the commons and apples & plums from orchard where I work. Onions last, beans can be frozen, but other things have to be eaten fresh. That's the real world for you, and I like it!



It sounds perfect !! I was brought up in the Berkshire countryside , so growing up I always had fresh fruit , vegetables and free range eggs. Most people now just got to a supermarket and buy something thats been on a shelf for weeks   Or worse still dont even eat vegetables and fruit as they didnt as children  God help this generation of children ... my neighbours little boy had never seen or eaten a strawberry until I gave him one ! 
I am quite lucky as I do like a healthy diet which has come in mighty handy since being a  diabetic non mouse


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## Copepod (Aug 29, 2009)

No sweet corn from a shop can taste as good as one from the garden - put the pan onto boil, go down the garden, avoiding attack by "killer" duck and pick cobs, pulling off covering "leaves" at the compost heap on the way back, put in pan back in the kitchen - tea ready in minutes! It's a lot easier growing things directly in soil than in pots or growbags, but it is possible - as long as you know where you'll be living come harvest time. When I was moving a lot a unpredictable intervals, I didn't grow anything, excpet for bean sprouts, which are so fast growing that they're possible virtually anywhere - except Antarctic bases, where alien species are banned! And I've picked blackberries everywhere I've found myself in UK in Aug / Sept, from London to Oban, and late summer in Chile / Argentina and New Zealand, too.


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## Peter C (Sep 8, 2009)

C*5_Dodger said:


> Dear Northerner,
> 
> Very interesting - especially if you are genetically manipulated mouse.This apoE-/- mouse is a genetic cripple who's ability to process fat has been severely damaged. So it is hardly surprising that that it had high levels of atherosclerosis!
> 
> Regards   Dodger



Hi Dodger...
But all three sets of mice began on a level playing field ( all ApoE-/-) and the one on the high fat diet developed the most atherosclerosis as opposed to the standard chow and low fat sets of mice.


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## C*5_Dodger (Oct 11, 2009)

Hi Dodger...
But all three sets of mice began on a level playing field ( all ApoE-/-) and the one on the high fat diet developed the most atherosclerosis as opposed to the standard chow and low fat sets of mice.

Dear Peter C,

Your point is not relevent we are NOT genetically modified so that we can't process fats

Regards  Dodger


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