# Peroneal Tendinosis



## Northerner (May 10, 2016)

That's what has stopped me running for 8 weeks now  

https://www.aofas.org/footcaremd/conditions/ailments-of-the-ankle/Pages/Peroneal-Tendonitis.aspx

I can walk OK, but with some pain - feels like a bit of an ankle sprain, and particularly when on uneven ground - more stress on the tendons. Running is out of the question and apparently this can take many weeks or months of rest to heal  Blimey, I healed quicker when I broke my femur!  Thankfully, I can still use the rowing machine OK, so able to get some good aerobic exercise in, but really missing my running. I've had 'overuse' injuries in the past, but nothing like this, and it wasn't even as though I had particularly 'overused' it!


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## BigMalc (May 10, 2016)

Curiously I have something similar, though not sounding anywhere as bad.  Mine eases after about a mile into a run, (or less with a proper warm up!) but makes stairs a bit of a issue the following day, together with the first 2/.3steps after sitting a while.

I had a half marathon coming up and the physio said I was good to keep going providing I did lots of voltarol and stretches.  A couple of weeks in and I don't think it has got worse, but then again it hasn't got better.  the half was OK apart from the classic fail of leaving my mid race snacks in baggage (so no surpise that my pace deteriorated from 8m onwards - D'Oh!)

As I would be exceptionally disgruntled without my running I am going to keep trusting him, but if it gets worse, then I might have to get a second opinion looking at that link.

Hope it eases soon Northy


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## Northerner (May 10, 2016)

Thanks Malc, I hope you get it sorted soon


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## KookyCat (May 10, 2016)

Ouch, I get tendonitis a lot, it comes as part of the EDS package.  With peroneal tendonitis there can be a footwear connection, I suffered for 18 months with it and it turned out to be the arch support in the trainers I was wearing (just for walking there was no possibility of running the tendon was so inflamed).  I have a high natural arch but it collapses on contact with the floor this is known as a flexible flat foot and should not be treated with arch support because that causes the foot to counterbalance onto the ankle bone side causing overuse of the long peroneal, and extremely painful tendonitis.  Conversely I believe if you have a normal foot and the arch falls, lack of arch support can cause the same basic problem because the foot is trying to counterbalance an over pronation.  The point of that incredibly boring story is check your footwear with a specialist, either a pod person (podiatrist to everyone else) or one of those fancy trainer shops that measure your gait on those fancy machines.  That could be the simplest and quickest resolution to the problem.  I subsequently developed an angry plantar fascia as a rebound injury but I expect thats just my very special feet and wouldn't happen to someone without the hypermobility issue (easily fixed by wearing a shoe with a heel....you'd look great in heels ).  On a serious note though you need to find the root of the tendon annoyance because if continually annoyed it can thicken, my Achilles is thickened which is why I can no longer run unless I fancy a nasty rip  had me one of them wasn't fun at all.

Also did you know diabetes causes ligament laxity, that's the connection with Charcot foot apparently (although it's much more complex than just stretchy ligaments).  I learned more about this recently from a scary lady with a foot analysis machine (she's a qualified medical just very scary).  The connection relates to high blood sugar, but sustained slightly elevated blood sugar can also be a factor.  I'm not prone to high blood sugar but my over extension capabilities have increased by 5% putting me back to the level of flexibility I had when 21, which is 3 times more stretchy than a normal, and 2 times the tensile strength.  So there's a positive from diabetes ...give me another two years and I'll basically be a big elastic band able to hire myself out as a trampoline.

Do you have the ankle strapped?  If not it might be a good idea, the compression helps the fluid move from the tendon (well it does if you have my joints, I've realised I don't know if non EDS folk have the same inflammatory reaction coz I've never been one).  I'll shut up now because I appear to have the verbals today!


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## Redkite (May 10, 2016)

Complicated!  Hope it's not too painful.  What caused it do you think?  Do you need better trainers?


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## Robin (May 10, 2016)

I see one of the things they're trying is platelet therapy, perhaps you could get Khskel to donate you some of his spare ones?


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## Northerner (May 11, 2016)

Thanks guys  @KookyCat  - the problem is due to a running overuse injury, plain and simple. I was 4.5 miles into a 5 mile run when I started to feel something. As I thought it was just the top of my shoe rubbing against my heel bone, I carried on, determined (stubborn!) to do the full 5 miles I had planned, which probably didn't help. I've had similar problems before (32 years since my first marathon!), but they are usually fine after a couple of days rest, so this is very unusual for me  I do get more injuries since breaking my femur as my gait was altered slightly by the operation (leg must be heavier too, with all that scaffolding in it! ), but usually only minor and I always have rest days in between runs. Just one of those things. My running shoes are the same brand/model that I have been using for 20+ years and the ones I had on were relatively new, so not unduly worn. Slapping ibuprofen gel on it and trying to walk properly so as not to favour it too much. It feels like a combination of a badly-bruised ankle and minor sprain. It was really bad for about 3 days after first happening, then started to feel better - then it's like it has just got stuck


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## KookyCat (May 11, 2016)

I'd get someone to take a wee look at it.  Actually I'd strap it up tightly and see if that helps it ease off, then if not I'd get em to look (only because id be there every week if I didn't try all the usuals first).  I had to wear a fibre boot cast on one of mine for 3 months once to get it sorted, pain in the backside but worth it to avoid thickening.  I'll stop lecturing now


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## SlowRunner (May 12, 2016)

Ooh no, that doesn't sound good at all . No suggestions from me I'm afraid, just hope it heals before you go totally stir crazy! I have found that adding strength workouts to my routine have helped to banish a lot of little niggles that I've had in the past.


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## HOBIE (May 14, 2016)

Northerner said:


> That's what has stopped me running for 8 weeks now
> 
> https://www.aofas.org/footcaremd/conditions/ailments-of-the-ankle/Pages/Peroneal-Tendonitis.aspx
> 
> I can walk OK, but with some pain - feels like a bit of an ankle sprain, and particularly when on uneven ground - more stress on the tendons. Running is out of the question and apparently this can take many weeks or months of rest to heal  Blimey, I healed quicker when I broke my femur!  Thankfully, I can still use the rowing machine OK, so able to get some good aerobic exercise in, but really missing my running. I've had 'overuse' injuries in the past, but nothing like this, and it wasn't even as though I had particularly 'overused' it!


Typical hen the weather is getting better too, hope it gets better Northy


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## Northerner (May 15, 2016)

Thanks everyone  It's been feeling slightly less sore for the past few days, so hopefully finally on the mend. I'm going to find it hard going out for a run again though, for fear of setting the whole thing off again - a bit like I was when going running for the first time after my broken femur, that was scary


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## Northerner (Jun 30, 2016)

Well, I took the plunge last Sunday and did a very tentative run around the block (0.54 miles!). Things seemd to be OK, but I gave it a couple of days just to make sure and managed a bit further yesterday - 1.15 miles!  The ankle still feels a little fragile, but doesn't actually seem to have been made any worse by the run so will try for a bit further tomorrow or Saturday


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## SlowRunner (Jun 30, 2016)

Great news @Northerner . Hope things continue to improve!


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## Stitch147 (Jul 1, 2016)

Fingers crossed things continue to improve for you. Im glad to say it seems that my foot is on the mend.


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## Northerner (Jul 1, 2016)

Stitch147 said:


> Fingers crossed things continue to improve for you. Im glad to say it seems that my foot is on the mend.


That's great news Stitch!


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## Northerner (Jul 2, 2016)

Went out for another run this morning. Still taking it carefully, ankle a little sore but as last time didn't appear to get any worse  2.57 miles at 10:03/mile pace


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## HOBIE (Jul 2, 2016)

Northerner said:


> Went out for another run this morning. Still taking it carefully, ankle a little sore but as last time didn't appear to get any worse  2.57 miles at 10:03/mile pace


Well done Northy. It does your head good to get out


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## Northerner (Jul 2, 2016)

HOBIE said:


> Well done Northy. It does your head good to get out


I've certainly been missing it Hobie!


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## Northerner (Jul 5, 2016)

Another run this morning, slightly further, slightly faster  2.81 miles at 9:47/mile. Ankle just felt a bit stiff, but otherwise no problems


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## Matt Cycle (Jul 5, 2016)

Northerner said:


> Another run this morning, slightly further, slightly faster  2.81 miles at 9:47/mile. Ankle just felt a bit stiff, but otherwise no problems



Well done Alan.  Keep it going.


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## Northerner (Jul 7, 2016)

Got up at 4 am today and was feeling a bit bored, so went out for a run  Managed ever so slightly further (due to Garmin drift - same actual route) - 2.82 miles at 9:51 pace  Ankle still feeling slightly fragile, think I will leave the next one until Sunday


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## Teadance (Jul 7, 2016)

Glad it's on the mend! Yes, the frustration. It definitely makes you feel mentally so much better, not just the physical side. Hope it continues to improve.


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## Northerner (Jul 7, 2016)

Teadance said:


> Glad it's on the mend! Yes, the frustration. It definitely makes you feel mentally so much better, not just the physical side. Hope it continues to improve.


Thanks Teadance!


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## Diabeticliberty (Jul 7, 2016)

Northerner said:


> Got up at 4 am today and was feeling a bit bored, so went out for a run  Managed ever so slightly further (due to Garmin drift - same actual route) - 2.82 miles at 9:51 pace  Ankle still feeling slightly fragile, think I will leave the next one until Sunday





4.00am are you mad? The last time i got up at 4.00am the police had a helicopter outside my bedroom window. I did manage a run on that day. There is sadly however no way of outrunning those police alsations . 


Glad that you are back to it. Just don't go bonkers with it until you are fully fit.


I have a client who did an Iron Man Challenge on Saturday. 11 hours and 15 minutes which I think is fantastic going. The silly man is trying to talk me into doing one with him. I tried the 'I am type 1 diabetic excuse' to which he replied 'Loads of diabetics do them and it just needs extra planning'. I can feel myself very reluctantly getting myself dragged into this


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## Annette (Jul 7, 2016)

Northerner said:


> Got up at 4 am today and was feeling a bit bored, so went out for a run  Managed ever so slightly further (due to Garmin drift - same actual route) - 2.82 miles at 9:51 pace  Ankle still feeling slightly fragile, think I will leave the next one until Sunday


I was also up at 4am this morning. However, I was not running. I was walking round the house swearing at my sciatic nerve. 4am is not a time for normal people to be up. My pedometer is very confused this morning...


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## Northerner (Jul 7, 2016)

Diabeticliberty said:


> I have a client who did an Iron Man Challenge on Saturday. 11 hours and 15 minutes which I think is fantastic going. The silly man is trying to talk me into doing one with him. I tried the 'I am type 1 diabetic excuse' to which he replied 'Loads of diabetics do them and it just needs extra planning'. I can feel myself very reluctantly getting myself dragged into this


That is major  My main problem is that I simply can't train enough to do the log distances I used to without getting injured. Since my femur snapped rather spectacularly at mile 23 of the Stockholm Marathon it has caused a slight alteration in my gait which means I am more susceptible to soft tissue injuries - a half marathon is my limit these days and I even had to pull out of April's Southampton Half this year because of this stupid injury  I used to run 70-80 miles a week with only one day's rest per week, no longer possible, sadly 

If someone proposed an Ironman to me I would simply point out that I can't ride a bike and haven't swum further than two lengths in 25 years


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## Diabeticliberty (Jul 7, 2016)

Northerner said:


> That is major  My main problem is that I simply can't train enough to do the log distances I used to without getting injured. Since my femur snapped rather spectacularly at mile 23 of the Stockholm Marathon it has caused a slight alteration in my gait which means I am more susceptible to soft tissue injuries - a half marathon is my limit these days and I even had to pull out of April's Southampton Half this year because of this stupid injury  I used to run 70-80 miles a week with only one day's rest per week, no longer possible, sadly
> 
> If someone proposed an Ironman to me I would simply point out that I can't ride a bike and haven't swum further than two lengths in 25 years




I could make the cycle with a bit of training.  The swim frightens the life out of me and I think that there is a very realistic possibility that the run would actually kill me. When you add them all together however I feel that they all take on a different dimension. Even if I were able to reach a fitness level whereby I could give the thing semi serious consideration working out how to pace myself would be extremely difficult. My client suggested that he will train with me to bring me to the standard.  He completed his 9th event on Saturday.  I have so much other stuff that steals time from me when I am not doing my full time job. Piano practice takes loads, fly fishing teaching takes loads, clay pigeon shooting takes a chunk, cycling takes a bit, I am going to end up going through a divorce which will have some impact. I really doubt whether I would have enough time to train enough for an Iron Man to have even the remotest chance of completing one. I am kinda sniffing around the edges of it though


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## Northerner (Jul 7, 2016)

Diabeticliberty said:


> I could make the cycle with a bit of training.  The swim frightens the life out of me and I think that there is a very realistic possibility that the run would actually kill me. When you add them all together however I feel that they all take on a different dimension. Even if I were able to reach a fitness level whereby I could give the thing semi serious consideration working out how to pace myself would be extremely difficult. My client suggested that he will train with me to bring me to the standard.  He completed his 9th event on Saturday.  I have so much other stuff that steals time from me when I am not doing my full time job. Piano practice takes loads, fly fishing teaching takes loads, clay pigeon shooting takes a chunk, cycling takes a bit, I am going to end up going through a divorce which will have some impact. I really doubt whether I would have enough time to train enough for an Iron Man to have even the remotest chance of completing one. I am kinda sniffing around the edges of it though


Perhaps it would make more sense to go for something more humanly possible, like a sprint triathlon (800m swim. 20k bike, 5k run) or Olympic distance (1500m, 40k, 10k)  Still would be a helluvan achievement!


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## Diabeticliberty (Jul 7, 2016)

Northerner said:


> Perhaps it would make more sense to go for something more humanly possible, like a sprint triathlon (800m swim. 20k bike, 5k run) or Olympic distance (1500m, 40k, 10k)  Still would be a helluvan achievement!




Alan, when did I ever strike you as making any sense whatsoever?


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## Northerner (Jul 7, 2016)

Diabeticliberty said:


> Alan, when did I ever strike you as making any sense whatsoever?


Now you mention it...erm....erm...


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## Northerner (Jul 15, 2016)

Up at 4 am again this morning and out for a run  Managed 3.36 miles at 9:48/mile pace, no pain


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## Northerner (Jul 26, 2016)

Northerner said:


> Up at 4 am again this morning and out for a run  Managed 3.36 miles at 9:48/mile pace, no pain


Well, the improvements continue - ran the same route this morning and managed a pace of 9:08/mile!  First mile was 9:01, second 8:58, slowed to 9:21 for the third mile and then a sprint finish over the last third of a mile  That's a pretty huge improvement in a couple of weeks, given my long lay off from running, so quite impressed myself  Ankle behaved, although I'm still a bit on edge about it. Just got an email this morning telling me that they are introducing a full 26.2 mile marathon in Southampton next year...I'm tempted!  Main problem with it is that it is basically two laps of the half marathon route, and I'm not usually impressed with having to do the whole thing again when you get half way!  Will have to see how things go as I try and build up my distance. I'm pretty sure that the alcohol-free year is helping me a lot - carrying less weight for a start!


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## trophywench (Jul 26, 2016)

Dunno about 'the same route again'; - at least you can picture how far from the finish you are - and at least once you start the second lap - it keeps on getting closer!  - but there again if it's on familiar territory anyway presumably you always would .......

If the prospect of knowing where the end is, is the very thing you don't like - then surely it's not possible to run anywhere you know the route?

(You could still do Stockholm though, you've never done that!!)


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## Northerner (Jul 26, 2016)

trophywench said:


> Dunno about 'the same route again'; - at least you can picture how far from the finish you are - and at least once you start the second lap - it keeps on getting closer!  - but there again if it's on familiar territory anyway presumably you always would .......
> 
> If the prospect of knowing where the end is, is the very thing you don't like - then surely it's not possible to run anywhere you know the route?
> 
> (You could still do Stockholm though, you've never done that!!)


Actually, I did Stockholm in 2003 - it was on my return in 2004 that my flipping leg broke!   2008 due to go back and try again, then diabetes struck!  I haven't actually done a full marathon since diagnosis, so this would probably be my first (since I certainly wouldn't be ready to do one before next April! )

The thing about doing two laps is that it can get a bit boring - bear in mind that I'll probably be running for at least 2 hours to get round the first half, then 2.5 hours for the second, it's nice to have a bit of variety in terrain and sights all the way  Very dispiriting too when the half-marathoners peel off and you know you're essentially just starting!


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## Matt Cycle (Jul 26, 2016)

Northerner said:


> Actually, I did Stockholm in 2003 - it was on my return in 2004 that my flipping leg broke!   2008 due to go back and try again, then diabetes struck!  I haven't actually done a full marathon since diagnosis, so this would probably be my first (since I certainly wouldn't be ready to do one before next April! )
> 
> The thing about doing two laps is that it can get a bit boring - bear in mind that I'll probably be running for at least 2 hours to get round the first half, then 2.5 hours for the second, it's nice to have a bit of variety in terrain and sights all the way  Very dispiriting too when the half-marathoners peel off and you know you're essentially just starting!



Just look at one side of the road for the first half and the other side of the road for the second.   Go on, get thissen booked on it.


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## trophywench (Jul 26, 2016)

Ah, right - didn't recall it was the second time.

It would give you something to aim for next year anyway! - but possibly you should wait a bit, to see how the leg continues to go?


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## Northerner (Jul 27, 2016)

trophywench said:


> Ah, right - didn't recall it was the second time.
> 
> It would give you something to aim for next year anyway! - but possibly you should wait a bit, to see how the leg continues to go?


Closing date is 31st August for registration - yes, I think I will wait a bit  If I have a good month - maybe


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## Northerner (Aug 2, 2016)

Things appear to be progressing well  Ran my quickest 5k in 5 years last week, and this morning managed 4.61 miles at 9:46/mile pace, a big improvement on the last time I ran that route. No problems with the ankle on the way round, but it does tend to feel a little tender afterwards, hence I take 2-3 days in between runs to let everything recover  Frustrating, because my brain wants me to run (it loves the endorphins), but I can't bear the thought of doing damage and having to take another 3 months off!


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## Matt Cycle (Aug 2, 2016)

Northerner said:


> Ran my quickest 5k in 5 years last week, and this morning managed 4.61 miles at 9:46/mile pace, a big improvement on the last time I ran that route.



This could be down to the bright green camo and orange asics.


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## Northerner (Aug 2, 2016)

Matt Cycle said:


> This could be down to the bright green camo and orange asics.


Actually, haven't worn them yet! They only arrived late on Saturday and didn't want to 'wear them in' on today's longer run - will take them for a spin on a shorter run later in the week


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## Northerner (Aug 4, 2016)

Went out in the new snazzy shoes this morning - probably caused temporary blindness to a few of the neighbours!  Had planned a short, steady run to wear them in a bit, but they were so comfy I ended up doing a short, but much faster than planned effort  2.83 miles at 8:59/mile pace, first time since 2014 on that route below 9 minutes a mile  Ankle feels fine


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## Northerner (Aug 10, 2016)

Managed 5.03 miles this morning (determined to complete 5! ) in 47'12" - 9'23"/mile, so good for me. Ankle fine again, perhaps I can stop worrying about it now? Mind you, I still worry about the whole leg breaking and that was 12 years ago!


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## Stitch147 (Aug 10, 2016)

Thats great. My foot is completely better now from whatever I done to it recently. Im doing a 28km walk on the 10th September and im fairly sure it will be in the back of my mind the whole time!!!


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## Northerner (Aug 10, 2016)

Stitch147 said:


> Thats great. My foot is completely better now from whatever I done to it recently. Im doing a 28km walk on the 10th September and im fairly sure it will be in the back of my mind the whole time!!!


Excellent news Stitch


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## Matt Cycle (Aug 10, 2016)

Northerner said:


> Managed 5.03 miles this morning (determined to complete 5! ) in 47'12" - 9'23"/mile, so good for me. Ankle fine again, perhaps I can stop worrying about it now? Mind you, I still worry about the whole leg breaking and that was 12 years ago!



Well done Alan. Keep it going. 



Stitch147 said:


> Thats great. My foot is completely better now from whatever I done to it recently. Im doing a 28km walk on the 10th September and im fairly sure it will be in the back of my mind the whole time!!!



That's good news about your foot Stitch.  Good luck with the 28k walk (you could extend it a 'little' bit and walk up to Birmingham for the forum meet on that day ).


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## Stitch147 (Aug 10, 2016)

Matt Cycle said:


> Well done Alan. Keep it going.
> 
> 
> 
> That's good news about your foot Stitch.  Good luck with the 28k walk (you could extend it a 'little' bit and walk up to Birmingham for the forum meet on that day ).



Haha! I don't know about that! I'm doing the Thames Path Challenge, walking from Putney Bridge to Hampton Court. I'll be taking photos as I go so will bore you all with them.


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## HOBIE (Aug 12, 2016)

Stitch147 said:


> Thats great. My foot is completely better now from whatever I done to it recently. Im doing a 28km walk on the 10th September and im fairly sure it will be in the back of my mind the whole time!!!


Good luck Stitch on that 28k !


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## Northerner (Aug 14, 2016)

Ran a 10k this morning (6.2 miles) in honour of Mo Farah, although it took me about 34 minutes longer  Mind you, I'm guessing the track in Rio didn't have this profile...


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## KookyCat (Aug 15, 2016)

Glad to hear the ankle is holding up and the new runners are lighting up the lives of your neighbours.  I know it's frustrating but the key with tendon inflammation is always to stop as soon as it grumbles, that way you're off your feet for three days rather than three months (there I am nagging again!).  My physio said something to me recently that might help and I kept meaning to tell you, hence this post, the nagging was just an added extra .  Peroneal problems largely start because of the foot arch, so after activity engaging the feet (running, walking, dancing etc) arch massage is very useful at releasing any tension that will eventually lead to soft tissue damage.  She gave me a massage thingy but you can buy them in Boots for a few pounds, it looks like a rubber dog bone but you roll your foot on it.  I was sceptical but by George that thing gives the plantar fascia what for I can tell you, and so far I've not had any niggles with the plantar region, my Achilles, or peroneal and for me that's a miracle given that my wonky joints mean at least one of those is grumbling at all times. Even managed some pretty intensive dancing.  Might be worth a try, be warned though it's quite painful, course that could just be my mashed body but it was quite the surprise


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## Northerner (Aug 15, 2016)

Thanks for that @KookyCat, I will look into it  I've had a problem with my arches since I was a small child, they are very high. It seems to be working well taking two or three days off in between each run to let everything recover properly, and I think my improving strength is helping too  There's still the 'ghost' of soreness there the day after a run, but then everything feels fine and no problems during a run


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## BigMalc (Aug 15, 2016)

good to see things heading back OK northerner.  My physio totally backs up kooycats points.  either a small childs ball or one of the rollery/massagy ones under the arch on a regular basis.  Also, as weird as it may sound, scrunch up a tea towel with your feet as that also strengthens the arch.  I am using heel tabs in shoes and walking around on tip toes too but I think that is just designed to make me look a fool in the office!


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## Northerner (Aug 16, 2016)

Couldn't resist going out for a quick, short run this morning - and it turned into a bit of a record-breaker (well, PBs since I started using the Garmin in 2008 ) Quickest times for 1 mile, 3 miles and 5k!


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## Matt Cycle (Aug 16, 2016)

Northerner said:


> Couldn't resist going out for a quick, short run this morning - and it turned into a bit of a record-breaker (well, PBs since I started using the Garmin in 2008 ) Quickest times for 1 mile, 3 miles and 5k!
> 
> View attachment 1690



Well done.  Fairly consistent mileage times as well.


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## Northerner (Aug 21, 2016)

Went for a bit of a longer run this morning - managed 8.81 miles in 1:28, so exactly 10 mins/mile  Thought about going that bit further to round it up to 9 miles, but that would have meant running past my house and my legs said 'No, don't be daft!'


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## HOBIE (Aug 21, 2016)

Well done Northy ! it is nice out there


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## Northerner (Sep 4, 2016)

Hurrah! Managed a 10 mile 'Tour de Southampton' this morning  Included some pretty steep hills, so quite pleased both with distance and time and ankle seems fine  This was actually my fastest 10 mile run since diagnosis!


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## Matt Cycle (Sep 4, 2016)

Northerner said:


> Hurrah! Managed a 10 mile 'Tour de Southampton' this morning  Included some pretty steep hills, so quite pleased both with distance and time and ankle seems fine  This was actually my fastest 10 mile run since diagnosis!
> 
> View attachment 1811



Excellent work Alan.  The Southampton marathon next year must be whispering in your ear.


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## Northerner (Sep 4, 2016)

Matt Cycle said:


> Excellent work Alan.  The Southampton marathon next year must be whispering in your ear.


Maybe, but my legs are screaming 'Noooooooo!!!!!'   Thankfully, the deadline for applications has passed, but I have signed up for the half  Mind you, they _are_ offering an upgrade to the longer distance....


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## Northerner (Sep 4, 2016)

Forgot to add - I didn't test during the run as I felt OK, but tested when I got home and was 5.4, so pretty happy with that  Not bad, 10 miles on a slice of Burgen toast!


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