# Libre 3 available in UK from 25th March



## everydayupsanddowns

Move over Libre2… there’s a new kid in town.

I gather Libre 3 will be available as a full CGM - so not an option for people who have Libre 2 on prescription to switch to, but available with a separate funding model / criteria as per Dexcom etc.

Will be interesting to see how this slots into the proposed new NICE guidance on CGM.


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## mikeyB

It’s not much an advance. Just a bit smaller. You still can’t calibrate it as you can with Dexcom, so if you find it’s reading 2 points higher then a blood test, ypu have to live with it. 

Though they say it’s more accurate from the start, a similar claim is made for the Dexcom 7, (which you and I will be buying as soon as it appears in the UK, Mike.) so we’ll see how it goes. The smaller you make these things, the smaller is the area of stickiness, making it easier for accidents with doors to pull ‘em off.


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## Bruce Stephens

mikeyB said:


> It’s not much an advance. Just a bit smaller. You still can’t calibrate it as you can with Dexcom, so if you find it’s reading 2 points higher then a blood test, ypu have to live with it.
> 
> Though they say it’s more accurate from the start, a similar claim is made for the Dexcom 7, (which you and I will be buying as soon as it appears in the UK, Mike.) so we’ll see how it goes. The smaller you make these things, the smaller is the area of stickiness, making it easier for accidents with doors to pull ‘em off.


If it's thinner as well, there's a potential for the weight to reduce faster than the sticky surface area. I presume they've tested it well enough to decide it'll be sticky enough.

I think I'd like to try one before changing from Libre 2. I'm finding it quite convenient to use it with the Libre 2 reader (so that gives the alarms), and presumably with Libre 3 I'd just have the phone. (And presumably I'd need the phone near enough all the time or I'd get gaps in the history. But I'm not sure about that and even if it's true maybe it would be OK.)


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## helli

mikeyB said:


> The smaller you make these things, the smaller is the area of stickiness, making it easier for accidents with doors to pull ‘em off.


I don't understand this, 
In my experience, the smaller the sensor, the harder it is to knock or accidentally pull off. 
Plus there is a larger proportional area of stickiness compared to the lighter sensor.


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## Lucyr

Has anyone heard what the price will be for self funding?


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## Bruce Stephens

Lucyr said:


> Has anyone heard what the price will be for self funding?


I think they've always said it would be the same price. (For example, https://www.abbott.com/corpnewsroom...e-libre-3-worlds-smallest-sensor-is-here.html )


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## Matchless

mikeyB said:


> It’s not much an advance. Just a bit smaller. You still can’t calibrate it as you can with Dexcom, so if you find it’s reading 2 points higher then a blood test, ypu have to live with it.
> 
> Though they say it’s more accurate from the start, a similar claim is made for the Dexcom 7, (which you and I will be buying as soon as it appears in the UK, Mike.) so we’ll see how it goes. The smaller you make these things, the smaller is the area of stickiness, making it easier for accidents with doors to pull ‘em off.


you sound very biased to dexcom some people like me donot have the money for dexcom ,i use the libre 2 with xdrip app on my phone and can calbrate any time and find it to be very accurate most of the time .unlike dexcom calibrating twice a day.


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## Quincy

Bruce Stephens said:


> I think they've always said it would be the same price. (For example, https://www.abbott.com/corpnewsroom...e-libre-3-worlds-smallest-sensor-is-here.html )


It's not available to self fund at the moment. I'm not sure if/when it will be


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## nonethewiser

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Move over Libre2… there’s a new kid in town.
> 
> I gather Libre 3 will be available as a full CGM - so not an option for people who have Libre 2 on prescription to switch to, but available with a separate funding model / criteria as per Dexcom etc.
> 
> Will be interesting to see how this slots into the proposed new NICE guidance on CGM.
> 
> View attachment 20365



Why won't it be available to libre2 uses?


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## Bruce Stephens

Quincy said:


> It's not available to self fund at the moment. I'm not sure if/when it will be


Right now https://www.freestylelibre.co.uk is giving an error, so perhaps it's being updated? (Or perhaps it's just a coincidence, of course.)


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## Bruce Stephens

nonethewiser said:


> Why won't it be available to libre2 uses?


I assumed it would be, yes. Maybe the NHS didn't get quite as good a deal on it as they got with Libre 1 and 2?

Or maybe they prefer keeping it a bit distinct because it is a different offering (requires a smartphone and so on).


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## Kaylz

nonethewiser said:


> Why won't it be available to libre2 uses?


It won't be a straight switch, it will be the same channels as getting funding for Dexcom and only available to those with more complex cases so bog standard Type 1 MDI'ers don't stand a chance


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## Kaylz

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Move over Libre2… there’s a new kid in town.
> 
> I gather Libre 3 will be available as a full CGM - so not an option for people who have Libre 2 on prescription to switch to, but available with a separate funding model / criteria as per Dexcom etc.
> 
> Will be interesting to see how this slots into the proposed new NICE guidance on CGM.
> 
> View attachment 20365


Odd that the picture is of L1 and not the L3 the post is announcing


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## harbottle

A friend of mine who works in electronics did a tear down of one of my old Libre 2 sensors - the main chip isn't available commercially available so he couldn't find the datasheet but he found a similar one and even some reverse engineered code (The s/ware is written in a version of java) online. There's not a lot in them. A BT chip, the main MCU and a temperature sensor.

(Sorry, nothing to do with this thread, but some folk might be interested.)


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## helli

Kaylz said:


> Odd that the picture is of L1 and not the L3 the post is announcing


And shows a Reader although the article clearly says that it will only be read via the phone app.
I suspect it is lazy journalism rather than an Abbott marketing issue.

Doing an online image search, that picture seems to only appear on the Diabetes Times website.


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## Bruce Stephens

Kaylz said:


> It won't be a straight switch, it will be the same channels as getting funding for Dexcom and only available to those with more complex cases so bog standard Type 1 MDI'ers don't stand a chance


But those channels should be changing (starting next week) when the updated NICE guidelines come into force. And if Libre 3 costs about the same as the previous versions then I'd have thought it would be more about patient choice than funding.


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## Kaylz

Bruce Stephens said:


> But those channels should be changing (starting next week) when the updated NICE guidelines come into force. And if Libre 3 costs about the same as the previous versions then I'd have thought it would be more about patient choice than funding.


And that's fine for the likes of England who go by NICE guidelines but sadly Scotland don't so things won't change at all for the likes of me and many others


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## helli

Bruce Stephens said:


> But those channels should be changing (starting next week) when the updated NICE guidelines come into force. And if Libre 3 costs about the same as the previous versions then I'd have thought it would be more about patient choice than funding.


As has been pointed out quite a few times, they are definitely *guidelines* so interpretation will vary. 
I know in my CCG, so far, the Libre funding has come from a different pot to the CGM funding and it takes time to move the NHS funding juggernaut so I am not expecting everyone treated with insulin to be gifted with a CGM on 1st April ... it's almost as likely to be a huge April Fools joke.


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## helli

Hmmm, I was about to change my last post to say "the Libre funding has come from a different piggy bank to ...." but the picture of a giant farm of giant pigpens distracted and scared me a little


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## nonethewiser

Kaylz said:


> It won't be a straight switch, it will be the same channels as getting funding for Dexcom and only available to those with more complex cases so bog standard Type 1 MDI'ers don't stand a chance



Can't see why that would be as cost to nhs is same as far as I'm aware, only cost difference would be new reader rather than sensors.


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## helli

nonethewiser said:


> Can't see why that would be as cost to nhs is same as far as I'm aware, only cost difference would be new reader rather than sensors.


There is no reader for Libre 3.
it can only be started via a phone with NFC and read via Bluetooth.


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## nonethewiser

helli said:


> There is no reader for Libre 3.
> it can only be started via a phone with NFC and read via Bluetooth.


 Good, never use reader anyway, much prefer phone.


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## Kaylz

nonethewiser said:


> Can't see why that would be as cost to nhs is same as far as I'm aware, only cost difference would be new reader rather than sensors.


It's more to do with the fact it's a CGM that more complex cases are to receive it I believe


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## helli

nonethewiser said:


> Good, never use reader anyway, much prefer phone.


I think for those of us who have a suitable phone and have a slight technical bent, the phone is great but many phones do not have NFC and it is not reasonable for a DSN to understand how many different phones work to support their non techy patients. The great thing about the Reader is it has one set of instructions.


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## Lucyr

This all seems really strange. What’s the point of making it the same price if you can’t buy it self funded (you can buy dexcom and other CGMs), and if those getting libre 2 on prescription can’t necessarily receive libre 3. Might as well have made it more expensive to pitch more similar price to dexcom


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## helli

Lucyr said:


> This all seems really strange. What’s the point of making it the same price if you can’t buy it self funded (you can buy dexcom and other CGMs), and if those getting libre 2 on prescription can’t necessarily receive libre 3. Might as well have made it more expensive to pitch more similar price to dexcom


I think the comment was that it is not available to self fund today and that Abbot has suggested it will be the same price. I am waiting for facts rather than guesswork.


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## Bruce Stephens

Lucyr said:


> This all seems really strange. What’s the point of making it the same price if you can’t buy it self funded (you can buy dexcom and other CGMs), and if those getting libre 2 on prescription can’t necessarily receive libre 3. Might as well have made it more expensive to pitch more similar price to dexcom


It's not available right now, but presumably will be in the next few days. (The whole website seems to be down.)

And if they can there are obvious benefits in making it the same price (and lower than many competitors).


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## grovesy

i have looked on the website and there is no mention of the Libre 3.


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## everydayupsanddowns

Kaylz said:


> Odd that the picture is of L1 and not the L3 the post is announcing



Yes I noticed that! It’s a Diabetes Times email, not from Abbott, so I blame them!

Here’s the Diabetes Times article (also with the wrong pic!)









						Abbott’s FreeStyle Libre 3 now available for use in the UK - The Diabetes Times
					

A global healthcare company has announced that the latest addition of the world-leading FreeStyle Libre sensor technology is now available for use in the UK. Abbott has unveiled that the FreeStyle Libre 3 continuous glucose monitoring (CGM) system is available via the NHS Supply Chain Framework...




					diabetestimes.co.uk
				





“Abbott has unveiled that the FreeStyle Libre 3 continuous glucose monitoring (CGM) system is available via the NHS Supply Chain Framework for people with more complex diabetes management needs who require a real-time CGM device, such as those with impaired hypoglycaemia awareness.

The FreeStyle Libre 3 system automatically delivers continuous, real-time glucose readings every minute to users’ smartphones and provides 14 days of unsurpassed accuracy, with the smallest and thinnest sensor design available.”


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## everydayupsanddowns

grovesy said:


> i have looked on the website and there is no mention of the Libre 3.



Though there is a picture on the home page


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## everydayupsanddowns

nonethewiser said:


> Can't see why that would be as cost to nhs is same as far as I'm aware, only cost difference would be new reader rather than sensors.





nonethewiser said:


> Why won't it be available to libre2 uses?



Libre and Libre 2 were made available as ‘flash glucose monitors’ under a different funding structure to conventional CGM, where the CCG budget was top-sliced and the only way to get the money back was by satisfying the mandatory NHS England criteria - I‘m not completely sure how it worked in the devolved nations.

This funding structure was completely separate to CGM and insulin pump provision, which have their own criteria, and you couldn’t use any of the ‘libre’ budget as a token for part-payment of other CGM, like dexcom.

So even though L3 is in the same family of products as L2, as far as the budgets and provisioning are concerned it’s a completely different thing.


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## nonethewiser

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Libre and Libre 2 were made available as ‘flash glucose monitors’ under a different funding structure to conventional CGM, where the CCG budget was top-sliced and the only way to get the money back was by satisfying the mandatory NHS England criteria - I‘m not completely sure how it worked in the devolved nations.
> 
> This funding structure was completely separate to CGM and insulin pump provision, which have their own criteria, and you couldn’t use any of the ‘libre’ budget as a token for part-payment of other CGM, like dexcom.
> 
> So even though L3 is in the same family of products as L2, as far as the budgets and provisioning are concerned it’s a completely different thing.



Right that does explain things, thanks.


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## mikeyB

Matchless said:


> you sound very biased to dexcom some people like me donot have the money for dexcom ,i use the libre 2 with xdrip app on my phone and can calbrate any time and find it to be very accurate most of the time .unlike dexcom calibrating twice a day.


I don’t calibrate Dexcom more than fortnightly. I do use BG tests when the sensor indicates low just to check, but usually find Dexcom to be within 0.5 or nearly the same as BG tests, when the BG is steady.  You only need to calibrate Dexcom twice a day if you are stupid enough not the enter the 4 digit code of the sensor before you start it. 

How often do you have to calibrate the Libre?

And yes, the money for using the Dexcom is beyond most folks budgets, but I make no apology for being able to afford it without any problem. That’s because I spent 10 years in total of learning how to be a good doctor, and working from 9,00 on a Friday and not stopping till 17.00 on Monday when I was on call for the weekend. They don’t do that anymore. So I now have a gold plated final salary pension that increases in line with RPI.


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## rebrascora

I don't "calibrate" my Libre 1 because of course you can't, but I do a couple of checks within the first 2 days to get an idea of how it is reading compared to BG and mostly I find it to be consistently within 1mmol lower. Any checks I do when high or low throughout it's lifetime tend to confirm that it is still consistent. It is for this reason I have decided to stick with Libre 1.... that and the fact that I like to enjoy undisturbed sleep and there is always an element of false alarms with any alarm system.
 A slightly smaller sensor might have been nice but I am extremely grateful to have Libre 1 on prescription and it works well for me, so not interested in upgrading.


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## Lilly

helli said:


> There is no reader for Libre 3.
> it can only be started via a phone with NFC and read via Bluetooth.


Really need a list of phones that have been tested to work with Libre 3. There is a noticeable difference between scanning with reader and mobile phone.


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## rebrascora

Lilly said:


> Really need a list of phones that have been tested to work with Libre 3. There is a noticeable difference between scanning with reader and mobile phone.


Another reason why I probably wouldn't be interested in upgrading. The reader works really well for me and being small and scanning easily makes it more user friendly for me.


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## trophywench

Lilly said:


> Really need a list of phones that have been tested to work with Libre 3. There is a noticeable difference between scanning with reader and mobile phone.


Well presumably Lilly will be able to tell the NHS which phones, once the thing is available.  Until then and your clinic says you can have one,  not much point in worrying about it!


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## helli

mikeyB said:


> How often do you have to calibrate the Libre?


You *can *calibrate Libre if you use unofficial apps like xDrip.
I check with a finger prick at least once a day and calibrate if more than 0.5mmol/l different.


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## helli

rebrascora said:


> Another reason why I probably wouldn't be interested in upgrading. The reader works really well for me and being small and scanning easily makes it more user friendly for me.


There is no need to scan with a CGM. Using Bluetooth the readings are sent directly to your phone.
The only reason for scanning with NFC is to start Libre 3. Although, I don’t know why they designed it that way because Dexcom and Medtrum CGMs start via Bluetooth.


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## Lily123

The issue with no reader for Libre 3 is that many people won’t have a phone with NFC


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## mikeyB

If Abbott have stuck with NFC rather than Bluetooth they are ploughing a lonely furrow compared to other CGMs, no matter how good the sensors are. With the Dexcom  my phone just has to be within 6 metres of the sensor. And because it installed on the Apps on my watch as soon as it was on the phone, I just need to look at my watch to check my BG - as long as the phone is in range. 

It might seem a bit fussy to be free of dragging your phone or reader over your arm to get a reading, but when you have four layers of clothes at a freezing game at the football it’s a bonus just looking at your watch. No need to take the gloves off.


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## Bruce Stephens

mikeyB said:


> If Abbott have stuck with NFC rather than Bluetooth they are ploughing a lonely furrow compared to other CGMs, no matter how good the sensors are. With the Dexcom my phone just has to be within 6 metres of the sensor.


The suggestion is just that NFC will be required for initialisation. You need something to create that initial Bluetooth binding (since you only want one device to be able to connect), and NFC seems like one of the best. (I'm fairly sure there are wireless headphones that also allow this.)

There are obviously alternative ways to do it (though I think NFC is the one I'd choose). I'm guessing a big part of why they chose to continue with NFC is because they'd been using it for a while.


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## rayray119

helli said:


> There is no reader for Libre 3.
> it can only be started via a phone with NFC and read via Bluetooth.


If I went for this I wouldn't be able to use because I don't think a phone I had to get because it's not competavlte


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## Brava210

The Libre 2 can already be used as a CGM with Diabox, and the readings sent to phone/Watch every 1 or
5 minute interval.


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## helli

Bruce Stephens said:


> The suggestion is just that NFC will be required for initialisation. You need something to create that initial Bluetooth binding (since you only want one device to be able to connect), and NFC seems like one of the best. (I'm fairly sure there are wireless headphones that also allow this.)
> 
> There are obviously alternative ways to do it (though I think NFC is the one I'd choose). I'm guessing a big part of why they chose to continue with NFC is because they'd been using it for a while.


Other CGMs do not require nfc. This seems to be a Libre thing.
Other CGMs I have used (Dexcom and Medtrum), you just enter a serial number which is on the sensor packaging.


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## nonethewiser

Brava210 said:


> The Libre 2 can already be used as a CGM with Diabox, and the readings sent to phone/Watch every 1 or
> 5 minute interval.
> View attachment 20410



That's handy, so it's all done by this Diabox app, so would show up on android phone?

Sorry bit clueless with some tech.


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## helli

Brava210 said:


> The Libre 2 can already be used as a CGM with Diabox, and the readings sent to phone/Watch every 1 or
> 5 minute interval.


xDrip does the same thing.


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## Bruce Stephens

helli said:


> Other CGMs I have used (Dexcom and Medtrum), you just enter a serial number which is on the sensor packaging.


Right, that would also work. (And while I'm pretty sure I've got some headphones that allow NFC pairing, I didn't use it.)

As I said, I imagine it's because Libre 1 and 2 use NFC extensively, so likely it would take work to remove it and add a new mechanism.


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## Brava210

nonethewiser said:


> That's handy, so it's all done by this Diabox app, so would show up on android phone?
> 
> Sorry bit clueless with some tech.


That's correct, Diabox runs and picks up BG levels every 5 minutes.


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## Brava210

helli said:


> xDrip does the same thing.


True, I don't like the interface on xDrip though.


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## nonethewiser

Brava210 said:


> That's correct, Diabox runs and picks up BG levels every 5 minutes.View attachment 20417View attachment 20418



Neat, how great is that, have to download it. Thanks.


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## Proud to be erratic

Brava210 said:


> True, I don't like the interface on xDrip though.


I'm on Diabox, like it a lot except it seems to close and dump all data periodically - needing me to start afresh with only 8 hrs history. I've made a note of the date this time and it could be after 90 days and 'full'? Do you encounter this?

Could you kindly explain what you dislike with xDrip please? I presume xDrip stores history for a longer time - or am I overassuming?


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## mark king

Just a slightly off-centre question re these Xdrip and others apps.  My phone is a Samsung Android so Xdrip will work on it but what is the attraction of using it.
I see @helli amongst others uses it but what is the attraction/ advantage over the reader from the sensor provider as I do.
For me it's more a case of "don't put all my eggs in one basket" attitude in case my phone should go AWOL.
L2 user.

Best


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## helli

My reason for using xDrip is two-fold
- ability to calibrate against my finger prick readings so it is more accurate than factory calibrated Libre
- Libre 2 can be converted to a CGM without the need to scan. I just glance at the locked screen of my phone and see my current level which has been polled by Bluetooth

I also prefer the xDrip app as it combines LibreLink and LibreView type data in one place. 

Some people extend the solution further from xDrip (or Diabox) and are able to transmit the reading to a smart watch. I don't wear a watch so never investigated this but think @Brava210 does.


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## Matchless

What helli says is exactly right which i use also i do not know why more diabetics dont use the app particularly as i read all the time of libre uses complaining of inaccurate readings from the reader and librelink app.


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## helli

Matchless said:


> What helli says is exactly right which i use also i do not know why more diabetics dont use the app particularly as i read all the time of libre uses complaining of inaccurate readings from the reader and librelink app.


That's an interesting thought. I have never experienced any of the "scan again in 10 minute "errors that LibreLink users report and found Libre 2 to be very stable. Never thought of it being a LibreLink app issue.
Maybe that is another reason to use xDrip or Diabox?


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## Proud to be erratic

helli said:


> That's an interesting thought. I have never experienced any of the "scan agin in 10 minute "errors that LibreLink users report and found Libre 2 to be very stable. Never thought of it being a LibreLink app issue.
> Maybe that is another reason to use xDrip or Diabox?


Well: Diabox is a 'half-way house' in respect of the try again L2 messages. Mine keeps taking readings at 5 min intervals for up to approx 30 mins. But eventually, if L2 is being particularly awkward, Diabox eventually throws a white towel into the ring. Then it sometimes restarts automatically and at other times I have to take it through the restart routine; that routine is a bit tedious, but I now know it sufficiently well to just do it without thinking.


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## trophywench

I don't scan with a phone, so the 'scan again in 10 mins' have been on the Reader.  Hence nob all to do with Librelink.  Normally means it's a faulty sensor.  Why the heck you've managed to never have a faulty one is either a pure co-incidence or a miracle.


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## grovesy

I get the scan in 10 mins,mostly when i have been for my walk and BS is dropping.


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## Robin

trophywench said:


> I don't scan with a phone, so the 'scan again in 10 mins' have been on the Reader.  Hence nob all to do with Librelink.  Normally means it's a faulty sensor.  Why the heck you've managed to never have a faulty one is either a pure co-incidence or a miracle.


You must have a much flatter line than me! I get a 'scan again in 10 minutes' whenever I'm having an attack of the Himalayas on my reader. Eg, I’ve been for a strenuous walk, or done the gardening, started dropping like a stone, treated with jelly babies, and started rising fast, and the poor Libre algorithm doesn’t know whether I'm rising or falling. Or I've eaten a doughnut, and the doughnut is winning against the insulin, then at some point the insulin fights back, and the graph reaches a sharp peak, plants a flag, and starts the descent.


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## trophywench

When I go that high it stays there so long it usually has time to build ruddy monument never mind plant a flag!  Nothing about me happens fast including BG changes.   We do know Libre has a tendency to do that when levels are changing quickly - but like compression lows overnight I would just shrug my shoulders and say Ah well, only to be expected.   Bit like when you know very well you ate too much/didn't bolus enough etc, discount it because you know exactly what caused it.  AND what you should or shouldn't have done.  Oh bother - try not to do that again .....


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## nonethewiser

Brava210 said:


> That's correct, Diabox runs and picks up BG levels every 5 minutes.View attachment 20417View attachment 20418



Had look on Play Stote can only see Diabox weather, couldn't see xdrip at all, I'm I looking in wrong place or something?


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## nonethewiser

grovesy said:


> I get the scan in 10 mins,mostly when i have been for my walk and BS is dropping.



Same here, always when bg is changing fast.


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## helli

nonethewiser said:


> Had look on Play Stote can only see Diabox weather, couldn't see xdrip at all, I'm I looking in wrong place or something?


These apps are unapproved so are not available on Play Store 
I do not know about Diabox but the best place to get xDrip is from their incredibly helpful Facebook group. It is available from GitHub. The group provides the link.


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## nonethewiser

helli said:


> These apps are unapproved so are not available on Play Store
> I do not know about Diabox but the best place to get xDrip is from their incredibly helpful Facebook group. It is available from GitHub. The group provides the link.


 
Not on Facebook helli, will try this GitHub, thanks.


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## Matchless

helli said:


> That's an interesting thought. I have never experienced any of the "scan again in 10 minute "errors that LibreLink users report and found Libre 2 to be very stable. Never thought of it being a LibreLink app issue.
> Maybe that is another reason to use xDrip or Diabox?


i only got the read again 10min error when using librelink or the reader in the past  never on xdrip also only had one libre sensor fail in 4 years and that was a libre 2 about 6 wks ago witch was a new sensor.


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## nonethewiser

nonethewiser said:


> Not on Facebook helli, will try this GitHub, thanks.



All double dutch, guess will stick with scanning for now.


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## Brava210

Index of /diabox
		



Download the bottom link for Android


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## Benny G

*To convert Libre 2 to CGM. 
Required:*

Libre 2 sensor, Android phone with good Bluetooth and nfc (or Abbot scanner in place of nfc) , Oop 2, xdrip+ 

The lengthy installation and setup instructions are in the link


			How to setup FreeStyle Libre 2 and OOP2 to use a native Bluetooth connection in xDrip+


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## Benny G

xdrip+ does not use the app store, it needs to be sideloaded, If you want to download xdrip+ the link is below:



			https://xdrip-plus-updates.appspot.com/stable/xdrip-plus-latest.apk
		


I have used xdrip+ continuously for 5 years.


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## Craig92

Benny G said:


> xdrip+ does not use the app store, it needs to be sideloaded, If you want to download xdrip+ the link is below:
> 
> 
> 
> https://xdrip-plus-updates.appspot.com/stable/xdrip-plus-latest.apk
> 
> 
> 
> I have used xdrip+ continuously for 5 years.





helli said:


> These apps are unapproved so are not available on Play Store
> I do not know about Diabox but the best place to get xDrip is from their incredibly helpful Facebook group. It is available from GitHub. The group provides the link.





Bruce Stephens said:


> I think I'd like to try one before changing from Libre 2. I'm finding it quite convenient to use it with the Libre 2 reader (so that gives the alarms), and presumably with Libre 3 I'd just have the phone. (And presumably I'd need the phone near enough all the time or I'd get gaps in the history. But I'm not sure about that and even if it's true maybe it would be OK.)



Hello, I am new in the community. Just got Libre 3 and trying to figure out how to use it.


These apps, xDrip+, Diabox, xDrip4iOS, Shuggah, do they all require a separate transmitter like Bubble or Blucon to work ?


For me the most thing is to get continuous glucose levels without gaps. I think Libre 3 can transmit blood glucose level every minute rather than every 5 minutes as in the previous generations. So, I want to see my glucose levels every minute without losing any data.


I don't think I will do self calibration. In this case, these secondary applications, do they offer any advantage over the official Libre 3 app ? Data export feature is a must for me. I should be able to export my glucose data as a CSV file. Additionally, the official Libre 3 app or these sideloaded apps, do they offer Google Fit or Apple Health integration to sync glucose data ? I will use Libre 3 on my Android phone. On the iOS side, I have an iPad but it lacks NFC. Which apps offer raw data ? Can a sideloaded app be used happily alongside the official app ?


Ok, let me summarize my questions, I want gapless glucose data with 1 minute intervals and to be able to export it as a CSV file. Which way should I go ?


Sorry, I know I asked too many questions but I am confused and need to get help from the experienced members. Still don't know the distinction between LibreView and LibreLink. I am that new. Thanks.


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## helli

I only know about xDrip (although not been using it for a few months) To my knowledge, it is not currently compatible with Libre 3 as Abbott has encrypted the data and no one has hacked the encryption.
For more, up to date information from the developers, I recommend joining the xDrip Facebook group.

But, why do you want data at 1 minute granularity? CGM data is noisy, averaging over 5 minutes will reduce this noise.


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## Craig92

helli said:


> But, why do you want data at 1 minute granularity? CGM data is noisy, averaging over 5 minutes will reduce this noise.


I agree but if Abbott is claiming that their device can now track blood glucose with 1 minute intervals without sacrificing from accuracy, why not use it ? Gives you the chance to see your body's response to sugar more instantly.


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## Bruce Stephens

Craig92 said:


> I agree but if Abbott is claiming that their device can now track blood glucose with 1 minute intervals without sacrificing from accuracy, why not use it ? Gives you the chance to see your body's response to sugar more instantly.


Presumably Abbott's app provides that? I'm guessing it'll send the data to LibreView, which allows downloading as CSV. (It's possible not all of the data will be uploaded, I guess. I haven't done a back of the envelope calculation of how much data that would be, and maybe it would just be silly so they only send 4 an hour (as they do for Libre 1 and 2) or something.)


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## Leadinglights

I think you are only the second person who I have seen mention they have the Libre 3, it is still rather new.
I hope you sort out your problem.


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## helli

Craig92 said:


> I agree but if Abbott is claiming that their device can now track blood glucose with 1 minute intervals without sacrificing from accuracy, why not use it ? Gives you the chance to see your body's response to sugar more instantly.


But you don't want to react to noisy data. 
I would rather wait 4 minutes than react to an invalid noise spike for one minute, especially if you can look at the trends. 

Also bear in mind the impact on the battery life of your phone if it is receiving 5 times more data. 

As I said previously, this is a moot point as no one apart from Abbott can decrypt the data.


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## Benny G

Craig92 said:


> Hello, I am new in the community. Just got Libre 3 and trying to figure out how to use it.
> 
> These apps, xDrip+, Diabox, xDrip4iOS, Shuggah, do they all require a separate transmitter like Bubble or Blucon to work ?


Forget about these apps for Libre 3, use the official Librelink app.


Craig92 said:


> For me the most thing is to get continuous glucose levels without gaps. I think Libre 3 can transmit blood glucose level every minute rather than every 5 minutes as in the previous generations. So, I want to see my glucose levels every minute without losing any data.
> 
> 
> I don't think I will do self calibration. In this case, these secondary applications, do they offer any advantage over the official Libre 3 app ? Data export feature is a must for me. I should be able to export my glucose data as a CSV file. Additionally, the official Libre 3 app or these sideloaded apps, do they offer Google Fit or Apple Health integration to sync glucose data ? I will use Libre 3 on my Android phone. On the iOS side, I have an iPad but it lacks NFC. Which apps offer raw data ? Can a sideloaded app be used happily alongside the official app ?


Abbot has worked hard to prevent sideloaded apps using Libre 3 data.

You can export data as CSV from the Libreview webpage. For details click the link below.


			libreview data export as csv - Google Search
		




Craig92 said:


> Ok, let me summarize my questions, I want gapless glucose data with 1 minute intervals and to be able to export it as a CSV file. Which way should I go ?
> 
> Sorry, I know I asked too many questions but I am confused and need to get help from the experienced members. Still don't know the distinction between LibreView and LibreLink. I am that new. Thanks.


Librelink is the app on your phone that collects the data from your sensor, and uploads automatically to your Libreview account. Your Libreview account stores your data and allows you to view charts and historical records, and share data with your health care team, (and as CSV.) 
Your phone will only store 90 days of Librelink data, once uploaded to Libreview the data is stored permanently.


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## Proud to be erratic

Craig92 said:


> I agree but if Abbott is claiming that their device can now track blood glucose with 1 minute intervals without sacrificing from accuracy, why not use it ? Gives you the chance to see your body's response to sugar more instantly.


Libre 2 actually generates data every minute and on Android the diabox app collects either every minute or 5 minutes.

Seeing BG change every minute was, most of the time, unhelpful; the trends in particular were very changeable. I don't know if that is a reflection of the real blood glucose sensitivity or a quirk of the algorithm, but for practical purposes it wasn't truly usable.

What Diabox provided was much more information about trend, particularly sensitivity of vertical change from 0.1 to 0.7 mmol/L/min; as you might imagine a fall of 0.7 is dramatic and as a T3c with no panc'y it really happens. So the other huge benefit of Diabox was dual alarms for both high and low levels, with the upper low alarm being 6.8, higher than the stupid limit of 5.6 on Libre 2. If I'm crashing by the time I've responded to 5.6 alarm it's too late unless I literally stop anything I'm doing, freeze and treat. No time to finger prick etc. But many 5.6 alarms are a gentle fall and from Libre 2 I simply don't know whether I must respond urgently or routinely.

So, without knowing what Libre 3 will provide from Librelink I can't assess whether it will need an extra app such as xdrip.


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## Proud to be erratic

Proud to be erratic said:


> So, without knowing what Libre 3 will provide from Librelink I can't assess whether it will need an extra app such as xdrip.


I'll rephrase this: I will need to see what Libre 3 actually provides and assess whether L3 and LibreLink only (until suitable extra apps exist) is actually an advantage over L2 with both a dual reading system of phone and Reader, plus LibreLink and apps such as Diabox or xdrip.


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## helli

Proud to be erratic said:


> as you might imagine a fall of 0.7 is dramatic and as a T3c with no panc'y it really happens


I am not sure what difference having no pancy is compared to having a pancreas that produces no insulin. I have definitely experience the type of plummeting blood sugars you mention when exercising with too much insulin onboard.
This is why I like the predicted hypo alert you get on xDrip. It takes into consideration the slope of the trend as well as the current value so I don’t get the annoying 5.5 but almost flat alerts. An alert at 6.8 would be incredibly annoying for me as my target level is. 5.6.


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## Proud to be erratic

helli said:


> I am not sure what difference having no pancy is compared to having a pancreas that produces no insulin.


It's not just the missing insulin hormone, it's all the other missing hormones, vitamins and enzymes. I have to micromanage all of those, as best I can. My GP didn't understand either when there was an attempt to stop me from finger pricking more than 4 times daily; no appreciation of how complex it all is when new to it.


helli said:


> I have definitely experience the type of plummeting blood sugars you mention when exercising with too much insulin onboard.
> This is why I like the predicted hypo alert you get on xDrip. It takes into consideration the slope of the trend as well as the current value so I don’t get the annoying 5.5 but almost flat alerts. An alert at 6.8 would be incredibly annoying for me as my target level is. 5.6.


Fair enough, you can choose whatever alarm setting you want. You don't have to select 6.8, or 5.6; you mighr prefer 5.0 or 4 2.

I'd like to choose closer to 6.8 and have a 2nd alarm closer to 4, then I get a warning that change is happening after dropping below 6.8, can reset it to, say, 5.6 and still have the Urgent alarm nearer 4.5. My target level was 7, as directed by my Endo and he's recently suggested I can lower that towards 6. That worked for me, in conjunction with Diabox alarms, allowing me to intercept almost all potential hypos; and if I failed, such hypos were always high 3s and short-lived, rarely becoming low glucose events.

What I don't understand is why Abbott mandated 5.6 as their upper threshold. What is the significance of that limit? Also, as I gain a better sense of what is happening overall and understand my body signals, I don't need alarms quite so much. As a newbie alarms were a huge psychological aid and for me to be constrained to just 5.6 was a handicap until I got Diabox and appreciated how much better my management could be. The people writing the Diabox software clearly had a better understanding of what helps, within the tech limits, than Abbott do. Abbott, by removing the Reader from L3, haven't appreciated that this is a useful subsidiary aid for some people in some circumstances. It's not just a matter of not having a smart enough phone; I find the reader invaluable in places where my phone is just a nuisance.

By any definition the NHS are a big customer for Abbott and they have clearly abrogated their responsibility for this significant contract. They are passive recipients, not involved in the failure rates and not involved in getting an improved product.


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## rayray119

Craig92 said:


> I agree but if Abbott is claiming that their device can now track blood glucose with 1 minute intervals without sacrificing from accuracy, why not use it ? Gives you the chance to see your body's response to sugar more instantly.


Unfortunately it's not an option for everyone to use the app as it's not compartable for all phones so even if I wanted to give libre 3(once allowed) a shot after the problems I had with libre 2 I can't by getting read of the reader there stoping some people being able the use it.


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## BadaBing

Craig92 said:


> I agree but if Abbott is claiming that their device can now track blood glucose with 1 minute intervals without sacrificing from accuracy, why not use it ? Gives you the chance to see your body's response to sugar more instantly.


My understanding is that the Libre 2 works by tracking every minute the levels of glucose in a diabetic's cells (rather than the blood itself) where the sensor needle has been inserted. 

At present those once-every-minute readings taken by the Libre 2 are used only to trigger high and low alarms on the Libre 2 reader or a compatible smartphone. Otherwise the information is stored until the sensor is scanned by the user.

The Libre 3 upgrade sends those once-every-minute readings from the sensor (which the FSL2 is collecting anyway) to the Libre app on one's compatible smartphone.

I also welcome the extra information. Knowing what to do with the extra data is simply a function of (a) experience of one's own body and the device and its limitations and/or (b) how good or bad one's education from clinicians has been about using the data produced by the Libre wisely.


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## BadaBing

Proud to be erratic said:


> By any definition the NHS are a big customer for Abbott and they have clearly abrogated their responsibility for this significant contract. They are passive recipients, not involved in the failure rates and not involved in getting an improved product.


I read recently that the market for these products is worth £7 billion (or is it $7 billion, I cannot remember) annually. The main players compete vigorously against each other for market share. Indeed, there is currently patent litigation going on in the US, Germany and the UK between Dexcom and Abbott concerning the technology in their blood glucose management products. So they are pushing each to innovate.


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## Craig92

Thank you for all of your answers. I have one more question. I need to do occasional blood pressure measurement on the upper arm using traditional inflating cuffs. If I do the measurement over the L3 sensor, does it damage it ? The cuffs, when they fully squeeze your arm, it really hurts. I don't think it will crack the sensor but I wonder if it changes the accuracy of the blood glucose readings. Thanks


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## BadaBing

Craig92 said:


> Thank you for all of your answers. I have one more question. I need to do occasional blood pressure measurement on the upper arm using traditional inflating cuffs. If I do the measurement over the L3 sensor, does it damage it ? The cuffs, when they fully squeeze your arm, it really hurts. I don't think it will crack the sensor but I wonder if it changes the accuracy of the blood glucose readings. Thanks


I don't use the Libre 3 so you would need to ask Abbott or someone on this forum who is using the Libre 3 and taking their blood pressure.

I remember asking both Abbott and the manufacturer of my blood pressure machine the same question about the Libre 1 sensor. I was told by both that I wouldn't damage the sensor nor my blood pressure machine if I placed the cuff over the sensor to take readings.

However, I still don't place my blood pressure cuff over the sensor. I prefer to use the arm that doesn't have a sensor on it because I want to eliminate the possibility that my blood pressure readings might be off if I placed the cuff over the sensor. My GP prefers me to do it this way too.


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## Lucyr

Craig92 said:


> Thank you for all of your answers. I have one more question. I need to do occasional blood pressure measurement on the upper arm using traditional inflating cuffs. If I do the measurement over the L3 sensor, does it damage it ? The cuffs, when they fully squeeze your arm, it really hurts. I don't think it will crack the sensor but I wonder if it changes the accuracy of the blood glucose readings. Thanks


It won’t crack it but could give a compression low briefly. Do you have a second arm that you could use for the BP?


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## helli

Craig92 said:


> Thank you for all of your answers. I have one more question. I need to do occasional blood pressure measurement on the upper arm using traditional inflating cuffs. If I do the measurement over the L3 sensor, does it damage it ? The cuffs, when they fully squeeze your arm, it really hurts. I don't think it will crack the sensor but I wonder if it changes the accuracy of the blood glucose readings. Thanks


I do not have Libre 3 but have used Libre 1 and 2. I place it quite high up on my arm and not where I would place a cuff for blood pressure test.


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## N1ckyW

HI, how do we order the libre 3 if self funded?  since people are paying out of their pocket, I don't understand why it's not available for purchase at the launch date..


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## Lucyr

N1ckyW said:


> HI, how do we order the libre 3 if self funded?  since people are paying out of their pocket, I don't understand why it's not available for purchase at the launch date..


You can’t order it for self funding, only the 1 or 2


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## grovesy

It does not even appear on Abbott website!


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## everydayupsanddowns

N1ckyW said:


> HI, how do we order the libre 3 if self funded?  since people are paying out of their pocket, I don't understand why it's not available for purchase at the launch date..



Yes I do find it slightly odd, given that other rtCGM options (Dexcom, Medtronic, Medtrum) are available for self-funding purchase. But currently the Libre3 only seems to be available under CGM criteria through a hospital clinic.

Do you know if self-funders can purchase Libre3 in Germany @Paulbreen ?


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## Bruce Stephens

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Do you know if self-funders can purchase Libre3 in Germany @Paulbreen ?


Sure can: https://www.freestylelibre.de/produkte/freestyle-libre-3-sensor.html


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## Matchless

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Yes I do find it slightly odd, given that other rtCGM options (Dexcom, Medtronic, Medtrum) are available for self-funding purchase. But currently the Libre3 only seems to be available under CGM criteria through a hospital clinic.
> 
> Do you know if self-funders can purchase Libre3 in Germany @Paulbreen ?


The are for sale here in france 59.90 euros but i shall wait till i need them for closed loop when they are free.


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## JohnMacP

Bruce Stephens said:


> If it's thinner as well, there's a potential for the weight to reduce faster than the sticky surface area. I presume they've tested it well enough to decide it'll be sticky enough.
> 
> I think I'd like to try one before changing from Libre 2. I'm finding it quite convenient to use it with the Libre 2 reader (so that gives the alarms), and presumably with Libre 3 I'd just have the phone. (And presumably I'd need the phone near enough all the time or I'd get gaps in the history. But I'm not sure about that and even if it's true maybe it would be OK.)


I use the Libre 2 all the time with my phone rather than the reader, it doesn't loose history if the phone is away from it


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## Robin

JohnMacP said:


> I use the Libre 2 all the time with my phone rather than the reader, it doesn't loose history if the phone is away from it


The thing with Libre 2 is that when you scan it, it downloads the last 8 hours of stored info from the sensor. The extra feature of the Libre 3 is that it’s meant to send real time readings to your phone all the time, without the need to pick your phone up and scan. So for that purpose, your phone would need to be close enough to be receiving the constant signals. Wouldn’t be any good for me, I’m always going to the far end of the garden leaving my phone in the house. (It’s not much good for receiving phone calls either, when I do that!)
Oh, and welcome to the forum, btw!


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## helli

Robin said:


> The thing with Libre 2 is that when you scan it, it downloads the last 8 hours of stored info from the sensor. The extra feature of the Libre 3 is that it’s meant to send real time readings to your phone all the time, without the need to pick your phone up and scan. So for that purpose, your phone would need to be close enough to be receiving the constant signals. Wouldn’t be any good for me, I’m always going to the far end of the garden leaving my phone in the house. (It’s not much good for receiving phone calls either, when I do that!)
> Oh, and welcome to the forum, btw!


Most CGM do "backfill". So if you are separated from the reader/phone it will catch up, filling in the gaps, when you reconnect.
This is standard behaviour for all CGMs I have used including two different Dexcom versions, Medtrum Nano and unofficial Libre apps such as xDrip and Glimp.


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