# Diabetes Genealogy



## Mark T (Mar 4, 2011)

I notice scanning through various threads that a few have traced their family history, and in some cases specifically looked at if there is an incidence of diabetes in their family or not.

I was wondering, how did you determine if there was or was not diabetes?  Was it a case of requesting the death certificates in each case?  Or would you look for a pattern, such as an early death?


As a background, myself and my wife have been researching our trees for a good part of 2 years , but not for the purposes of diabetes history.  But generally we don't purchase the certificates (?9 a time! )


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## mcdonagh47 (Mar 4, 2011)

Mark T said:


> I notice scanning through various threads that a few have traced their family history, and in some cases specifically looked at if there is an incidence of diabetes in their family or not.
> 
> I was wondering, how did you determine if there was or was not diabetes?  Was it a case of requesting the death certificates in each case?  Or would you look for a pattern, such as an early death?
> 
> ...



I think you would need to buy the certificates Mark, even then diabetes might not be clearly stated as a primary or secondary cause of death. The terms used for "diabetes" might also be ambiguous or unrecognizable as such.



You might also try Parish Registers which sometimes mention a cause of death.

Medical records are also available for inspection after 50 (?) years as well.


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## Cate (Mar 4, 2011)

I have traced my family tree, but not looked for diabetes as such.  So it was a surprise to find on the death cert of my maternal GG Grandfather that diabetes was the primary cause of death, aged 44 - which I would think would have been type 1, given his age and that is was the cause of death.  He was in the workhouse too, poor bloke.

Mind you, I did this when it was still ?7 for the certs, not done much recently...can't afford it!


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## Jennywren (Mar 5, 2011)

I have never done this , but i think it would be very interesting , i know my dad , nana and great nana had diabetes and now my niece aslo has it so thats 5 generations , but i dont know if thereb was anyone before my great nana


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## margie (Mar 5, 2011)

Depending on how far back you are going - if you are looking in Scotland - the governments pay for view site has the Scottish death records. I am not sure when they stop but all those before 1900 will be there. The pay for view cost which allows you to download the record is considerably cheaper than ordering the certificate.

I have been thinking of getting some English death certificates - one part of the family seemed to have a lot of childhood or early adult deaths - its the expense putting me off.


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## Robster65 (Mar 5, 2011)

I don't think any actual medical records would be available, certainly not after 1901, but the death certs are a mine of information. Often, the informant is the spouse or a son/daughter so you can glean information that you might not have had otherwise.

Bear in mind, they only go back to 1837 for UK. 

FreeBMD is a good place to start looking. They have most of the indexes online, so you can get the certificate number, or at least a few likely ones, if you're not sure of some details.

I've gone back to the 1700s but not found any diabetes related stuff. Not sure who to blame for my gene collection.

Rob


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## Mark T (Mar 5, 2011)

Yes, it's the cost of the death certs that tend to put me off.

We have Ancestry and FindmyPast subscription and the tree we have put together for my fathers side is well over 200 people.  We are pretty much in the the late 1700's.

The thing that twigged my attention was that myself, my father, my uncle and my grandfather have/had diabetes (and all three of us that we know about got diagnosed at 35/36).  It hints at some kind of gene issue.

My great grandfather was blind at death, but he died at the age of 80.  I've always assumed that before the treatments were improved that the mortality would be earlier.  However, his wife (my great-grandmother) died at age 60.  And whereas my fathers line seem fairly long lived (70's/80's/90's in the 1800's), my great-grandmothers line seems to be 50's/60's.

I suspect the only way I'll find out is to spend money on some certificates and hope that there is some useful information.


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## Robster65 (Mar 5, 2011)

It could be that the women worked hard and didn't get much chance to recover from illnesses, etc.

Fascinating stuff Mark.

Let's hope you have the male line genes for longevity.

Rob


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## Ellie Jones (Mar 5, 2011)

You don't always have to buy a copy of the death certificates, as you can do your own research in the archives and then you just need pen and notepad to write your details down..  All government offices that have the index's are can be found here
www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/gr...vernment/documents/digitalasset/dg_184626.pdf  you need to phone first though, to check if appointment is required or any other payment etc...

Often it is the second cause of death that indicates whether diabetes was present, but it can get harder to decypher the further you go back..

We've managed to go as far back at 1011 on my mum's side, then her family goes over to France (were we are very lost)  and back into the 1400's with my dads, but more research is required to unraval some of the leads here... Even on my mums side there is still areas that are worthy of further research...

It was my BIL who did the researching, and wrote his finding up into two books for us, as he found information to where people lived, got married etc, finding photo's and taking photo's and some local information etc...

I'm actually desentant of Peerage and Rebels Judge Jefferies hung a couple of them!

But surprises to our ancestory came within one generation, My grandfather was Australian which we knew, but even my dad was unaware that granddad had a twin brother who died when they were 10!  Even though he had said twins were common in the family my great-great grand parents having 7 sets! and I make up one part of the two surviving sets twins in my family! And almost carried on family tradition but lost my identical twins at just over 5 months..

After this ramble, no mention or even indicators that any of my ancestors had diabetes have been found!  I'm the only one so far, and our tree has been extended further with a great-great niece being added in January of this year!


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## Robster65 (Mar 5, 2011)

Hi Ellie.

You can't actually look at the certs at the offices, without ordering them from Kew. The indexes only tell you the name, place of registration and the quarter they were entered in, plus the cert number.

I did a fair bit of mine in the Family History Centre in London, which is now closed and moved to Kew, but you can view parish registers on microfilm once you know where and when to look for. They can be informative.

You've done well to get back that far. I presume that's due to the peerage lines who were about the only ones to keep records ?

Rob


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## macast (Mar 5, 2011)

I've been researching my family history for nearly 25 years now and never come across a death certificate that said anything about diabetes.  but it seems that my father's side were the ones who had it.... although the ones that did, died of heart attacks, with no mention of the D.  I can take them back to 1775 but it looks like they landed in an alien spaceship as, although I have tried for 15 or more years, I can't find where the first one was born


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## Sugarbum (Mar 5, 2011)

I was at The National Archives at Kew only last week! I absolutely love it there (Im such a saddo, always there till throwing out time ) whaat a loser )

If you have not made a trip there they do induction talks which are deifnately worth going for (although microfilm still remains a mystery to me....!)

You would be suprised how much you can view for free at the National Archives and original documents that you can view by order in another room. The cost once you are there doesnt seem much at all. Even just looking at their online archives and other affiliated services such as ancestry.co.uk have endless credits added so that you can download for free. If you were doing this at home it costs in credits. Since knowing all this I have cancelled my home subsciption (but then I dont live too far from Kew so it makes sense).

One thing I noticed there is that they now have a lot of hospital records. I have only just started to touch on this as I was looking at the records of my uncles births in Lewisham hospital trying to find any mention of my grandfather (my uncles have all passed and my grandad died when my dad was 4 so Im starting from the very begining!). The hospital records may be something worth looking in to.

I have also been to the research room at the Imperial War Museum in Lambeth which is great. They are also really helpful by email- they dont reply particually quickly but when they do they really are helpful. I am suggesting them because if you are tracing back far enough then likely enough there will be military medical records. 

I would definately be interested in looking back to see if there was an incidence of family history of diabetes, as my father is also Type1. However, I would be very interested to know how others have got on with this as I would imagine it particually hard to trace beyond perhaps 3 or 4 generations as so little was known of then. Also the late discovery of insulin. Interested to hear what you find out!


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## lucy123 (Mar 5, 2011)

I have always wanted to start looking at my family tree, but have only got as far as writing down my mum and dads brothers and sisters (dads was difficult as adopted but have no idea where to start to go any further. All grandparents are deceased and only my mum survives - but her memory is not good! Any pointers would be appreciated.


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## Cate (Mar 5, 2011)

lucy123 said:


> I have always wanted to start looking at my family tree, but have only got as far as writing down my mum and dads brothers and sisters (dads was difficult as adopted but have no idea where to start to go any further. All grandparents are deceased and only my mum survives - but her memory is not good! Any pointers would be appreciated.



Firstly, look for your parents marriage certificate - order a copy (?9 ish) online, here: http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/  When you get it, this will give you:
Names, DOBs, location and occupations at marriage of your parents.
Names and occupations of their fathers, and whether they were alive at the time of marriage.

From the info on your grandfathers from the marriage cert, search for their marriages - this will jump you back another generation.

If you have a common surname, look for your parent's or grandfather's birth certificate before the marriage cert, as this will tie down their parent's full names, including the mother's maiden name.  This helps confirm which marriage certificate you're looking for, as the index normally lists eg "J Smith spouse Jones, Q4 1923" or similar.

You can search the indexes for free at freebmd.org.uk, this gives you the reference number you need to put into the online order form.  I think you can search on Ancestry for free as well, their index is sometimes better for some reason - not sure why as I think it's based on the same database!

Birth and marriage certificates will take you back to 1837, when registration became compulsory.  A marriage in the early years of registration gives you a rough birth year for eg late 1700s, but then you're into parish records which are patchy to say the least.

The rootschat forum is fantastic and well worth having a look at, you can find it here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php

Most importantly, whatever research you do, RECORD IT!  I can't stress that enough.  Make notes of what you find, what you need to research next, what websites you found info on, or what certificate it's from.  Use a genealogy programme (I use Family Historian, written for UK data, most others are US based but there are others - Brother's Keeper is shareware so you only pay if you want to/like it, it's available here http://www.bkwin.org/).  If you use software, just make sure it can output GEDCOM files, that's the generic genealogy standard so you can move your data around eg upload it to Genes Reunited/Ancestry etc if you choose to.

Hope I've not overwhelmed you with info, shout if I have.  It's a real interest of mine, can you tell?


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## lucy123 (Mar 5, 2011)

Thanks Cate - thats really helpful. What a shame though that it is so expensive!


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## Northerner (Mar 5, 2011)

That's terrific Cate, thank you for posting that


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## Cate (Mar 5, 2011)

lucy123 said:


> Thanks Cate - thats really helpful. What a shame though that it is so expensive!



It does mount up!  It's addictive, like being a detective working out who comes where in your family, and whether there are any skeletons in the closet 

I forgot to mention, once you get back to 1911 then you can access the census returns, so tracking back becomes a bit easier.  Libraries normally have Ancestry subscriptions if you check their Local Studies section, so you don't necessarily need a personal subscription (though most of us end up with one in the end!).  Also if you hit a brick wall then posting on Rootschat in the relevant forum generally gets you some really good suggestions for further research, or even people looking through eg the census for your missing person and throwing up suggestions for you to look at.

Good luck


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## grahams mum (Mar 5, 2011)

i know for sure that from my parents side nobody had diabetes they died of cancer and my mum side old age everybody was over 100 years old my partner side lots of cancer and heart problem and there is only 2 people with type 2  so really thereis not any real link with graham diabetes i really think that the croups attacks that he had were to strong for his pancreas


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## Mark T (Mar 5, 2011)

Tracing family history back can be a bit of a struggle, especially if parts of the family have fallen out with each other and won't talk.  But it is a lot of fun!

Census returns are very useful, however, there are the occasional typo or mistake to confuse you  A few of my ancestors were illiterate and didn't have the same surname on any two census.  It was obvious it was the same set of people though.

I've always assumed that I would see (relatively) early deaths for diabetes in the family.  Although it would be difficult to figure if those early deaths where accidental or other environmental issues.


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## Sugarbum (Mar 5, 2011)

Cate, thats impressive! I know what you mean by addictive! I shall be trying the sites you have recomended too, thanks.

Im (sadly) looking forward to completing the 2011 cencus  and making myself traceable! I havent received my internet login as yet. Should be through the door by the 18th March.

My next stop is I need to book a visit at the documents room in The Artillery Museum in Woolwich. My gramps was in the Royal Field Artillery 19th Battery in WW1 and they apparently hold the war diaries of each battery and some memorabilia. Fingers crossed.


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## margie (Mar 5, 2011)

Lucy -  if your Mum's Memory is not good could you ask her if she has any certificates at home that you could look through - the names on them may jog her memory. 

She may also have letters, old address books that will give you names - and although you won't initially know where they fit - they may start to fall in place.

There are registers for those adopted after 1927 - though I don't know how to access them. Adoptions before that date were not recorded they were an informal arrangement and some people took the names of the family who adopted them but that was not always the case. 

When using electronic records beware that not all records have been transcribed. I have come across many instances were people have linked some of my ancestors to the wrong tree simply because they have found someone elses online tree who have done the same. In one case it really stands out as you jump half way across the country which could be valid but in this case isn't as I have seen the local records.

Mis spellings of names can be a nightmare - with Irish names O and Mc are added and dropped at will. 

There are other sites you can try

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/

it links to many other sites which provide transcriptions such as 

www.lancashirebmd.org.uk

This site is slowly transcribing the local reference to Births Marriages & Deaths. All Liverpool marriages from 1875 to 1935 have been included. (Those in Bootle are not on the list).  
More than one year can be selected using the mouse and dragging downwards over the years.
If an * occurs then that indicates uncertainty over one or both surnames - sometimes due to a previous marriage. 
For marriages in the Anglican Church - the church the marriage took place is given and then providing the church has been filmed by Liverpool record office at central library -a copy can be obtained in the library via a reader-printer.
The entry is the same that can be obtained from the Cotton Exchange or from Southport - but they will send a new certificate and it will cost several pounds. 
Marriages that say registry office or registrar attended may have taken place in a church and could be associated with a Catholic, Methodist etc marriage.

Then there is

www.familysearch.org

Site created by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. It contains a transcription of the 1881 census which allows easy navigation from one house to the next. 

The International Genealogical Index (IGI) contains details of Baptisms marriages and deaths that members of the church have recorded whilst researching their ancestors as part of their beliefs in saving souls. Not all parishes have been transcribed.  If a reference is found then the actual entry in the church records can be accessed at the local record office - the entry sometimes contains additional information but sometimes there is no additional information. Some Catholic records have been transcribed as per the registers where the names have been entered as their Latin equivalent.

For Scottish Records the main site available is

www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

A pay for view site run by the government

Contains all the Scottish census data, Some Births Marriages & Deaths. Access to the Scottish Old Parish Records is available for pre registration data.

This site allows the actual entry in the registers to be downloaded - which is considerably cheaper than ordering the certificates. 

Scottish certificates contain more information than the English & Welsh equivalents 
Wedding certificates contain the christian and maiden names of the mothers. Where the mother had been widowed and remarried all previous surnames can be found.
Birth certificates list the date and place of the parents wedding as well as all the usual info.
Death certificates contain information on the deceased’s parents and their mother’s maiden name.

There is also

www.cwgc.org

Lists the war dead - gives their regiments where they are buried or memorialised (where the body was never found - ship sunk or not possible to identify). Pictures of the war cemeteries are on the site. The next of kin of the deceased and normally their address is also given.

I wrote a lot of the above some time back so the sites may have more on them now.

Other things to be aware of - sometimes people are known by their middle names so the name you are looking for may be wrong.

In Catholic families middle names may have been added at confirmation and so although on death certificates may not be on the birth certificates.


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## MeanMom (Mar 5, 2011)

My dad died last year - he had Type two but it was not mentioned on his cert - so how will people know in the future? Its not always the direct cause of death


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## Cate (Mar 5, 2011)

I had no idea so many of us have been working away at discovering our ancestors 

Be careful using the IGI, some of the data has been entered by individuals from the Mormon church, and it's in their interests to research their own family tree as far back as possible, as they have some kind of ceremony to "baptise" their ancestors so they can be saved (well, something along those lines anyway) so the data is fairly shaky sometimes.  It will say at the bottom of a page whether it's part of a parish record or an individual's "research".

I'm looking forward to the census too, it'll be the 2nd I've done.  I've since married the boyfriend I was staying with on the last census night...


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## margie (Mar 5, 2011)

Cate said:


> I had no idea so many of us have been working away at discovering our ancestors
> 
> Be careful using the IGI, some of the data has been entered by individuals from the Mormon church, and it's in their interests to research their own family tree as far back as possible, as they have some kind of ceremony to "baptise" their ancestors so they can be saved (well, something along those lines anyway) so the data is fairly shaky sometimes.  It will say at the bottom of a page whether it's part of a parish record or an individual's "research".
> 
> I'm looking forward to the census too, it'll be the 2nd I've done.  I've since married the boyfriend I was staying with on the last census night...



I tend to only look at the parish baptisms - then look them up but it is a large database.

The ceremony you refer to is baptism of the dead. 

I can't get much further with many of my lines as many lead to Ireland and because so many records have been destroyed you have to rely on the parish records - and if you don't know the parish you are stuck.

My husbands Granddad was informally adopted - fortunately on the 1901 census it had his original name and was listed as the adopted son of the person he had as his father on his marriage cert. The birth certificate in the first name tied in withe the birth details on the death cert.  The adopted father had been the lodger of his parents 10 years earlier. His mother died when he was a baby and his father remarried and was then widowed again. Not sure when he was taken in. The trail goes cold though as both his parents were German and I don't know where in Germany they were from.

On my Dad's side the family name completely changed - it happened in Scotland and because of the details in the Scottish records I can prove it happened - but don't know why or which was the real name. ie the family may have changed it when they arrived from Ireland and then reverted later on  - so with that line I have two possible names to look at and verify.

Oh another route for information is newspaper obituaries. If you know when someone died you can look up the local paper for around that date - and you sometimes get a whole raft of family names.


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## Northerner (Mar 5, 2011)

This is tremendous stuff - thank you to everyone for posting such great information


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## Sugarbum (Mar 5, 2011)

Cate said:


> I had no idea so many of us have been working away at discovering our ancestors
> 
> I'm looking forward to the census too, it'll be the 2nd I've done.  I've since married the boyfriend I was staying with on the last census night...



Yes Im looking forward to it as well. I hope that one day when my decendants are researching me they find me this way so I shall enjoy filling it out with as much info as Im allowed!

At the National Archives I noticed you can search your ancesters by professions such as nursing and nursing registers from when nurses were registered to hospitals...being a nurse I find this quite exciting as I know I will be tracable through another formal register.

Also I found rather useful is tracing back through an address/a particular house....through a probate record for my GF it stated what address he lived at, but that he died next door. Tracing the neighbours address I found links to GGF and GGGF. If he hadnt have gone next door and died it might have taken me goodness knows how long to pick up the trail again!

I bought the "Who do you think you are" 2 hardback books (a good discount price on Amazon). Unfortunately I have exhasted them. I personally feel the internet has now far exceeded most of the conventional methods of researching, but a good read all the same. 

_(Besides, it certainly seems you guys are a far better source of information, thanks!)_


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## Robster65 (Mar 6, 2011)

I first got started when I found out about an old family bible from the 19th century that had got half a dozen generations in. I then looked on familysearch.org and they were all entered on there from the parish register, so I got all the spouses, baptisms and deaths. 
It helped that they were all in the same village for about 200 years. It gets complicated once the railways arrived and they start to scatter. 

As said, it is a detective trail and you do get hooked but I've enjoyed going sideways through spouses' families, etc when I get stuck for gaoing further back. I also posted on a genealogy forum and found a long lost relative who was descended from my dad's GGgrandad via a separate line. She gave me a lot of extra info. So it's quite a social thing too ! 

Rob


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## margie (Mar 6, 2011)

Robster65 said:


> I first got started when I found out about an old family bible from the 19th century that had got half a dozen generations in. I then looked on familysearch.org and they were all entered on there from the parish register, so I got all the spouses, baptisms and deaths.
> It helped that they were all in the same village for about 200 years. It gets complicated once the railways arrived and they start to scatter.
> 
> As said, it is a detective trail and you do get hooked but I've enjoyed going sideways through spouses' families, etc when I get stuck for gaoing further back. I also posted on a genealogy forum and found a long lost relative who was descended from my dad's GGgrandad via a separate line. She gave me a lot of extra info. So it's quite a social thing too !
> ...



I would suggest you take a look at the actual parish records - they will either still be at the church or in a local record office. You can often (though not always) find additional information in the records such as the father's occupation and an address. The info on family search may also have some transcription errors.


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## Robster65 (Mar 6, 2011)

It's something I need to get back into when I've got nothing else to distract.

As time goes on, the access to records generally becomes better and all the places are a long way away and far apart. It would need to be a specific trip for each one.

As you say, there are many transcription errors on familysearch and some of it is guessed at in order to bridge certain gaps in peoples' histories. I've made leaps of faith myself but if the evidence doesn't materialise, I go back to the start and try another tack. I'm still missing some fairly major players in the tree but they must be out there somewhere ! 

Rob


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## Sugarbum (Mar 6, 2011)

This whole thread has made me curious enought to question wether my GF early death aged 49 (my dads -who also has Type 1 - dads) was pneumonia or wether there are any other clues.

The price of my curiosity just cost me ?22.99 for a copy of his death cert! I shall know in 16 days. Although I already know a fair bit about that line in the family now, I hadnt ever considered tracing the diabetes side of things.....

....I may be going off on a whole new tangent now!


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## Ellie Jones (Mar 6, 2011)

Even though I got my ancestory has been done it was done by my BIL, I would love to research Les's family so if you could only afford one research site, which one would people reccommend as being the most usefull to start with?


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## Mark T (Mar 6, 2011)

I would recommend Ancestry, although some of the others are cheaper it tends to have a better search engine.  Ancestry does currently lack a properly indexed and complete 1911 census mind you, although I'd be happy to do 1911 lookups for anyone who needs them.

Findmypast is cheaper and the presentation of the census results is better than ancestry, however the birth/death/marriage search results are not completely searchable.

The one thing I would say is, don't buy certificates through ancestry - use the reference and get them directly from the General Record Office - it's much cheaper!


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## margie (Mar 6, 2011)

Ellie Jones said:


> Even though I got my ancestory has been done it was done by my BIL, I would love to research Les's family so if you could only afford one research site, which one would people reccommend as being the most usefull to start with?



What area of the country will you be researching ? I know you could end up anywhere but it might help.

I would sort out what information I already had and what gaps there are. I would do this before registering.  Ancestry will give you 14 days trial - so if you have the time and are organised you may be able to get the information you want in that time. Ancestry are adding parish records all the time - but some areas of the country are covered much better than others.

Ancestry have different subscription rates  - you can have just UK records or you can go for worldwide records ( I have that as I have relatives all over the   place).

If you want genealogy software - there is My Heritage - which is free to download but is not compatible with an apple. It does have a feature which is a little scary - as it continually checks the data you update with trees published on line. You don't have to publish on line and you can restrict access so that others cannot see it. If it finds matches it will tell you and you can view the other tree (assuming the owner has granted permission).  There are other out there too. 

Ancestry lets you build an online tree - but be careful with the access settings unless you want everyone else to be able to access it. 

All sites with online trees are meant to not show details of living people - but I have seen cases where the software has not worked.

Which area of the country will your research be starting ? Many areas have local history societies which may have transcribed images to parish records church graveyards etc.


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## Ellie Jones (Mar 6, 2011)

Mainly Somerset/Devon and South Wales... 

I know it isn't going to be easy as Les know next to nothing about his family (they never really discuss past family members) and even though he sort of wants to do it, but not if it's not going to be difficult or very expensive! 

But we have a photograph of one of his great-grandad in w1 uniform, I really want to put a full name to the face and find more about him...  Does this face have a story to tell, was he a brave hero that survived many battles fields or was he the quarter master left behind at Southhampton dock stores!


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## Sugarbum (Mar 6, 2011)

Cate said:


> I have traced my family tree, but not looked for diabetes as such.  So it was a surprise to find on the death cert of my maternal GG Grandfather that diabetes was the primary cause of death, aged 44 - which I would think would have been type 1, given his age and that is was the cause of death.  He was in the workhouse too, poor bloke.
> 
> Mind you, I did this when it was still ?7 for the certs, not done much recently...can't afford it!



Hi Cate,

Sorry, just reading back through the thread again- this is facinating! I take it this is one of the certs that you have a copy of? Did it give you any further information? My understanding is it didnt really start to appear as a certifiable cause of death until mid to late 1800's and appearing as such on certs until about that time, even though the term has been around for much longer. I'm curious to know the approximate year of the death of your GGGF, its really interesting. Especially as we even see now, the prevalence of Type 1 presenting in an older population later than ever before, so back then to see a death at age 44 must have been considered unusual? I'm gripped 

_BTW....I wish the certs were still ?7! Lets start a campaign! _


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## lucy123 (Mar 6, 2011)

What do you use to record your tree on/draw your tree? Do you just use a large piece of paper or a package? Sorry if thick question. You are getting me very interested in getting started.


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## Robster65 (Mar 6, 2011)

I would imagine that diabetes is unlikely to be seen as a cause of death unless it was T1 early in life (wasting away, etc) because T2 symptoms would be presumably put down to secondary problems such as infections and heart disease, etc

I think there are websites that show instances of different diseases and causes of death. Might be worth a google search if you have a spare hour or two ! 

Rob


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## Mark T (Mar 6, 2011)

lucy123 said:


> What do you use to record your tree on/draw your tree? Do you just use a large piece of paper or a package? Sorry if thick question. You are getting me very interested in getting started.


We are using the Ancestry website to record and have a copy of family tree maker (which is junk btw).  Some of my friends use ABC Flowcharter and MS Visio.

I've also got a copy of GRAMPS which I use to filter the gedcom file from Ancestry and generate a website that I share with my family.

It's difficult to draw it all on a large piece of paper as you soon find people you were not expecting and have to somehow fit them in.  Of course it depends if you just want to look at direct ancestors or if you want to widen the tree to cover cousins, uncles, etc.


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## margie (Mar 6, 2011)

Sugarbum said:


> This whole thread has made me curious enought to question wether my GF early death aged 49 (my dads -who also has Type 1 - dads) was pneumonia or wether there are any other clues.
> 
> The price of my curiosity just cost me ?22.99 for a copy of his death cert! I shall know in 16 days. Although I already know a fair bit about that line in the family now, I hadnt ever considered tracing the diabetes side of things.....
> 
> ....I may be going off on a whole new tangent now!



I am confused by the amount you have paid for the death certificate, the costs don't seem to line up with those on the GRO website.

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/fees.asp

Maybe you have ordered from a company who is then ordering from the GRO.


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## lucy123 (Mar 6, 2011)

Mark T said:


> We are using the Ancestry website to record and have a copy of family tree maker (which is junk btw). Some of my friends use ABC Flowcharter and MS Visio.
> 
> I've also got a copy of GRAMPS which I use to filter the gedcom file from Ancestry and generate a website that I share with my family.
> 
> It's difficult to draw it all on a large piece of paper as you soon find people you were not expecting and have to somehow fit them in. Of course it depends if you just want to look at direct ancestors or if you want to widen the tree to cover cousins, uncles, etc.


 
Thanks for the reply Mark - much appreciated.


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## margie (Mar 6, 2011)

Ellie Jones said:


> Mainly Somerset/Devon and South Wales...



Try Genuki - it gives resources for different areas:

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/


http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/SOM/


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## lucy123 (Mar 6, 2011)

Has anyone used Genes Reunited and if so on a subscription basis (which one) or pay per view - what information do you get for your money?


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## Cate (Mar 6, 2011)

Sugarbum said:


> Hi Cate,
> 
> Sorry, just reading back through the thread again- this is facinating! I take it this is one of the certs that you have a copy of? Did it give you any further information? My understanding is it didnt really start to appear as a certifiable cause of death until mid to late 1800's and appearing as such on certs until about that time, even though the term has been around for much longer. I'm curious to know the approximate year of the death of your GGGF, its really interesting. Especially as we even see now, the prevalence of Type 1 presenting in an older population later than ever before, so back then to see a death at age 44 must have been considered unusual? I'm gripped
> 
> _BTW....I wish the certs were still ?7! Lets start a campaign! _



I wish the certs were still ?7 too!  Especially as my MIL has just asked me to research her family tree for her, it could get expensive...

My GGGF was called Thomas, he died in 1888 of "(1) Diabetes Mellitus (2) Phthisis" (which is TB) - so the diabetes is clearly given pride of place under cause of death.  The death cert didn't give me much more info than that, other than the location, which was the Tewkesbury workhouse in Gloucester.

He was a bricklayer by trade, so I imagine that the TB and diabetes meant he couldn't do the work as it's pretty physical stuff, so had nowhere to go but the workhouse.  His wife went into service, and his daughter went to live with her aunt and uncle.  We don't know where his son ended up - possibly Canada, and there's an interesting Canadian census record that I'm following up...but I also have 2 letters written by Thomas's wife to the local police saying her son had been taken against their wishes, so who knows!

Sometimes the informant's name on the death cert can be useful, as it's normally a family member - this time it was one of the workhouse staff from what I can tell.

Lucy - if you use a website like Ancestry or Genes Reunited then you can create family trees on there.  Family Historian has a good tree drawing section, but it is relatively expensive to buy - though you might find an old version on ebay maybe if you wanted.


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## margie (Mar 6, 2011)

There is this software - no use if you use an Apple

http://www.myheritage.com/family-tree-builder

The software is free - but they charge if you want to upload a tree with more than 250 people (that number keeps being reduced). However, if you just want to keep the tree on your computer you can add as many people as you like. It allows you to run all kinds of reports.


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## lucy123 (Mar 6, 2011)

I really feel hooked by this and sadly I have just realised I don't know my grandparents names on my fathers side due to him being adopted. I do know he found out his mum was in a hospital for the mentally ill just before she died, but thought he was his brother when he went to see her. It would be good to go down my dads line as I really miss him since he died in 2002 and although very close, now realise he never talked about his mum and dad.


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## margie (Mar 6, 2011)

hi Lucy 

I posted this link earlier

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/fees.asp

there is a section on the price for adoption certificates. You could try and get hold of your Dad's adoption certificate.


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## macast (Mar 7, 2011)

Ellie Jones said:


> Even though I got my ancestory has been done it was done by my BIL, I would love to research Les's family so if you could only afford one research site, which one would people reccommend as being the most usefull to start with?



I would recommend Ancestry.co.uk or Ancestry.com (depends where you live but they are both the same site) 

when I first started doing my family history I had to go to the archives and/or the parish churches to view any records!!  there was nothing online LOL.  sites such as Ancestry has made my research easier and cheaper as I don't need to travel around the country staying at B&Bs while I do my research.... it has made us all into armchair researchers.  but there is nothing like going to an ancestor's village (or town) and walking around, looking and getting a feel of what it might have been like in the past... walking from where their house was to where their place of work was or the school etc

whatever way you decide to do your research remember.................. it is sooooooooooo adictive..... and you may find you have been sitting at your computer researching for 6 hours without even realising   I've been to the archives at 9am....... and the assistant has told me they were closing and I would have to go............. and I had no idea that it was 5pm!!!


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## AlisonM (Mar 7, 2011)

I was lucky to have my great uncle around, at 100 he's a great resource and we also have a file of family documents going back to the 1860s that includes births deaths and marriages. My mother collected them all when she was researching our family history. Dad's family was a bit harder as we have no idea who his dad was - his name _may_ have been William Kennedy, but contacts on that side were able to fill in a lot of the gaps for my grandmother's family. The results was no diabetics of any variety with the possible exception of a great-great uncle on the MacLean side who died of 'pancreatic failure' at the age of 8 in 1880. Whatever it was he had, it came on fast and he died within nine months.

We're lucky too in that mother's family has been based here in and around Inverness since 1746 and is easy to track back, having come originally from Mull. Dad's family lived in a small area of Aberdeenshire around a village called Brig o Marnoch (two houses and a post office - now closed - and if you blink you'll miss it) and were equally easy to find.

I'm now living in a house which is three down and one round the corner from the one I was born in where my gran lived all her married life. My best mate and I used to joke that she was related to one half of the town and me the other half. As far as we can work out we're not actually related to each other, but if it's called MacLean, Fraser or Chisholm around here it's probably a cousin of mine.

There's a chance of course that the diabetes comes in from my unknown grandfather, but we'll never know. And since I bear very little resemblance to my dad, I got his nose and that's it, who was a skinny little thing and apparently took after the mystery man, I don't think it's a very strong chance. Genetically I'm almost pure MacLean.


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## Northerner (Mar 7, 2011)

AlisonM said:


> ...The results was no diabetics of any variety with the possible exception of a great-great uncle on the MacLean side who died of 'pancreatic failure' at the age of 8 in 1880. Whatever it was he had, it came on fast and he died within nine months.
> ...



I'm pretty sure they didn't know of the part the pancreas played in diabetes at that time (but I could be wrong, without looking it up!).


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## AlisonM (Mar 7, 2011)

Northerner said:


> I'm pretty sure they didn't know of the part the pancreas played in diabetes at that time (but I could be wrong, without looking it up!).



I hope none of you are eating or about to. This is horrid, so don't read it if you're of a nervous disposition.
















From what Great Uncle Tommy can recall of the story my Great Granddad told him (GG was only four when his brother died) the poor child's pancreas turned septic and rotted away and he died in dreadful pain. He had surgery to remove part of it but that did no good of course, in fact it probably made things worse for the poor little scrap. The cause of the infection is a mystery, but it wasn't cancer.


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## margie (Mar 7, 2011)

My Grandma threw out a pile of photos way before I got into genealogy. She made some comment to my Mum that no one would know who they were there once she was gone. Mum wishes she had offered to take them off her hands.  However, she did keep some really good things - there is my Granddad's permit to reenter the US - he lived there from the mid 20s till the depression hit, he never did go back. The US records for the 1930 census are available so  I have him on it.

If anyone downloads the myheritage software - the date defaults to US format - there is a way to change it - but its not obvious.

You need to select tools,then options, then dates.
Look for standard calendar and change the field settings from %m% %d% %y% to %d% %m% %y%. Then you will be able to enter dates in a UK format.


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## macast (Mar 7, 2011)

Legacy is a good program for recording your data.  I use it and it is free unless you want the deluxe version.  but it is a good idea to find the free ones to try some out to see which one you like before purchasing the full version.  but do make sure they can export a gedcom file so that all your inputting wouldn't be in vain


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