# Driver's Licence Suspension and DVLA Petition



## martynlloydkelly (Apr 18, 2013)

Hi everyone,

I've been a type one diabetic for 22 years now, have good control and have been driving for 8 years. I've had 2 hypos in the past 12 months, both of which whilst asleep and both of which caused by stress and excessive exercise. I've subsequently stopped the excessive exercise, settled down and I've since had to reapply for my driving licence as it was a 3 year licence.

Unfortunately, I received a letter yesterday from the DVLA, this is how it reads:
"Dear Mr. Lloyd-Kelly,

Thank you for sending in the medical questionnaire form which you downloaded from the internet.

From the information given on the forms I have to advise you that you do not meet the standards required to hold a driving licence.

When you meet the standards to drive and are eligible to reapply for your licence we will need an application from D1 together with up to date medical questionnaire DIAB1. If you have any queries regarding your fitness to drive please consult your GP before making any further application to DVLA.

Yours sincerely,

Drivers Medical Group"

To say I'm outraged and completely at a loss is an understatement. As I say, the hypos mentioned on the forms were suffered whilst I was asleep; I have excellent hypo awareness of a daytime (I've never required medial assistance in the 22 years of having diabetes when I was fully conscious and a hypo was suffered). Furthermore, I've never had a hypo whilst driving and have in no way ever put anybody else in danger whilst driving my car due to my diabetes.

Both me and my girlfriend (who doesn't drive) rely on my car to get to work, to do food shopping, to attend diabetes clinic appointments, to go to university etc. and I find the decision to be wholly unjustified and extremely unfair. My issue isn't with the fact that I had a severe hypo, its that I wouldn't have had it if I was conscious and now I'm being penalised for something I had literally no control over. The knock on effect of this is people not declaring such episodes for fear of losing their licence. HGV drivers depend on their licence to make a living, do you think they're going to tell the DVLA about these episodes if it means losing their livelihood? The directive is far too myopic for such a subjective condition and I believe that each case should be considered on an individual basis.

I have spoken to my GP this morning and they have confirmed that they will be happy to speak to the DVLA regarding my case and provide them with a glowing medical report regarding my diabetes as I both take it seriously and have excellent control. I have also had a response from Diabetes UK's "advocacy" service asking me to give them a call but unfortunately I have been unable to get through to Jennifer who left her direct number in the email. The diabetes team at my diabetes centre have said that they will get the consultants on this and I will be emailing them in a moment with background details.

I also spoke to the DVLA this morning and the conversation went a little like this:

Me: Hello, I'm a type 1 diabetic and my licence has been suspended but the letter I received does not give any medical reasons for this decision and neither is there any information regarding when I can reapply.
DVLA: OK, I'll just pop you on hold
*hold*
DVLA: Hello, yes your licence has been suspended because you answered "yes" to the question "have you had two severe hypoglycaemic attacks in the past year?".
Me: OK, I find that quite ridiculous as I have excellent blood sugar control, and the hypos mentioned happened of a night, whilst I was asleep. I have never had a severe hypo whilst conscious as I have excellent hypo awareness. There is a difference between the two, I could cite you numerous medical papers that support this assertion, its even got its own medical name "asymptomatic nocturnal hypoglycaemia", its like punishing a child for wetting the bed when asleep, he or she doesn't know that its happened until they wake up, they have no control.
DVLA: OK, I've just told you why your licence has been suspended, that's all.
Me: I appreciate that but I do take this as an affront to be perfectly honest, its bordering on discrimination.
DVLA: Please hold, I'll have a word with some colleagues.
*hold*
DVLA: Sorry to keep you waiting again, yes, our doctor's here state that there is NO difference between night and day hypos and the legislation we follow is set out by the secretary of state.
Me: Well, to be blunt, you're wrong, there is a world of difference but OK. Can I speak to these people?
DVLA: No, we will speak to a medical professional representing you, but not to you.
Me: Oh, so there's nothing more I can really do now?
DVLA: No.
Me: Thanks then, bye.

I agree in one respect, there isn't a difference between night and day hypos, the issue is whether or not you're conscious when the hypo is occurring. What happens if you're in a coma due to an incident unrelated to diabetes but you then proceed to have a hypo, does that count against you for driving?

Since receiving the letter mentioned above I have created an online petition at www.change.org as dealing with hypoglycaemia and driving in this way is completely asinine. The petition explains my position further if you would care to read it and if you do thank you. Many more thanks if you decide to sign.

The petition can be found here: https://www.change.org/en-GB/petiti...sion-of-drivers-licences-for-type-1-diabetics

Currently, the petition has been retweeted by Joe Pasquale (actor and comedian), Stephen Dixon (Sky News presenter) and Steve Bassam (member of the shadow cabinet). I have also been tweeting other high-profile characters in order to gain exposure for this petition. I have also contacted the Liverpool Echo's health editor, Helen Hunt, who is interested in covering the story, hopefully I will be speaking with her very soon. The petition itself has garnered 85 supporters in less than 24 hours and I don't intend for it to stop there. I really hope to be able to change this legislation as to be penalised for a complication of a disease that you have no control over is crazy. In my opinion this whole issue borders on discrimination and I loathe that other diabetics will suffer due to it.

I will keep you informed regarding my progress with this and I fully intend to have this directive looked at and altered if applicable.

Thank you


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## Redkite (Apr 18, 2013)

Hi Martyn,

This is absolutely ridiculous and you have my every sympathy.  As a Mum of a type 1 boy we have all this nonsense ahead of us.  I would be tempted to advise people to say they hadn't had any severe hypos if they had happened at night and in their sleep.  People don't drive in their sleep for goodness sake!  I hope your medical team can get this decision reversed for you as quickly as possible, and I'll gladly sign your petition and publicise it to other parents of type 1 kids.  Have you written to your MP?


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## martynlloydkelly (Apr 18, 2013)

Hi Redkite,

Many, many thanks for your sympathy, for signing the petition and for sharing it with others.  If there's only one good thing that comes out of all of this its that other diabetics might not have their lives so adversely affected by this legislation as mine has been.

The fact that you're tempted to say one of the reasons why I think the legislation is so ridiculous.  If you were a HGV/taxi driver etc. would you risk your livelihood by telling these people that you've had 2 "severe" hypos that you were unable to do anything about because you were unconscious and not driving at the time?

I have written to my MP, I've also been tweeting various parliamentary committee members through today.  I've been a little busy with all of this truth be told, I didn't expect it to be as successful as it has!

Thank you again for your support though, I hope that what I'm doing means that your son won't have to put up with the same difficulties when he grows up.  Its all a matter of understanding.

Best,

- Martyn


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## Lauras87 (Apr 18, 2013)

What???

Can you speak to your consultant & gp?

I can kinda see where they are coming from but you were sleep unless you can sleep drive you weren't behind the wheel

Btw your link doesn't work


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## martynlloydkelly (Apr 18, 2013)

Ridiculous isn't it? Also, my thoughts exactly, I'm not superhuman, I'm a normal guy who sleeps in a bed, not Father Ted who drives the length of an island whilst asleep.

I've spoken to my GP and they've said that they will give me a glowing report if necessary but they have to contact the DVLA or so the lady on the phone from the DVLA told me today.  My diabetes nurse specialist and consultant are also meeting tomorrow morning to formulate a plan of action.

I'm not stopping with just me though, I'm going to see this through so that no diabetic has to go through this madness again.  If its happened to me its happened/will happen to others and its incredibly unfair.  Things need to change with regards to this.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Apr 18, 2013)

Hi Martyn

Sorry to hear about your difficulties with the DVLA. I know that DUK did a good deal of work on this when the legislation was going through, they may have some useful information/support?

I would imagine that there an appeal process you can go through... I'm pretty sure you are not the first to have come across this problem so far, even though the legislative changes are fairly recent.

I've merged the previous (duplicate) thread in the driving section into this one to avoid responses becoming scattered in several locations.


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## martynlloydkelly (Apr 18, 2013)

Hi Mike,

No problem, apologies for the duplicate!

Unfortunately there is no appeal process in place by the DVLA, which is crazy in itself.  There's so many things wrong with this decision its unbelievable and judging from the response I've had its not just me that thinks so!

I just hope that my GP and consultant can come through for me otherwise I'll be getting around on a moped for the next 12 months!

- Martyn


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## redrevis (Apr 18, 2013)

This is all down to the definition of 'severe' and daytime and night time hypo awareness. The DVLA define severe as "requiring the assistance of another person". Like the DVLA said, they won't make any allowance for a severe hypo happening in the night. They also state:



> Impaired awareness of hypoglycaemia has been defined by the Secretary of State's Honorary Medical Advisory Panel on Driving and Diabetes as, '*an inability to detect the onset of hypoglycaemia because of a total absence of warning symptoms*.




So they would see having a severe hypo in the night as you not having good enough hypo awareness which would wake you up before it became severe. Due to them not distinguishing between day and night hypos, this would conclude to them believing that your day time awareness is not good enough to allow you to drive, hence revoking your licence.
The only thing that will change this is for the DVLA to distinguish between day and night time hypo awareness and unfortunately I can't see them doing that anytime soon.

All quotes taken from here: http://www.dft.gov.uk/dvla/medical/aag/D/Diabetes - Insulin treated.aspx

Petition signed and tweeted as well.

_offtopic:_ Nice to see another Martyn with a Y on the forums


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## everydayupsanddowns (Apr 18, 2013)

The 'DVLA' section where you posted originally does seem to have accounts from some people who have got their licenses back, so it might be worth you taking a quick look to see what happened in their case (I couldn't find one that was related to '2 severe hypos but only overnight' that exactly match your case, but there were others that were '1x severe hypo' and/or 'hypo unawareness' related)

This page on DUK website might also be useful (though you may have seen it already)
http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Guide-to...abetes/Driving/If-your-licence-is-taken-away/

This in particular sounded promising: 



> If your driving licence is taken away (revoked) you can ask the DVLA to reconsider their decision. A doctor’s report can be most helpful, so it is important to discuss the circumstances with your doctor if you have an accident due to hypoglycaemia. You also have the right to appeal against the decision to revoke your licence, to the Magistrates Court. You must appeal within 6 months of the decision to revoke your licence (or 21 days in Scotland). Before you appeal to the Magistrates Court you should give notice of your intention to appeal to the DVLA. If the DVLA is prepared to reconsider its decision, you will not have to go through the process of an appeal in the Magistrates Court.



Good luck with your petition!


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## delb t (Apr 18, 2013)

all signed- our son will hopefully start learning to drive in the summer cant wait for the paperwork ahead!


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## Twitchy (Apr 18, 2013)

Hi, agree it's outrageous! Will read & sign etc in a mo but have you tweeted this to Dominic Littlewood? (As in 'don't get done get Dom' series on tv)... He's a type 1 who drives so might be interested... Best of luck!


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## martynlloydkelly (Apr 18, 2013)

> This is all down to the definition of 'severe' and daytime and night time hypo awareness. The DVLA define it as "requiring the assistance of another person". Like the DVLA said, they won't make any allowance for a severe hypo happening in the night.



Understand all that but the problem is that asympotomatic nocturnal hypoglycaemia is very real (there's tonnes of medical research regarding it) and it only pertains to hypoglycaemia that occurs when asleep i.e. unconscious.  I have excellent hypo awareness when compos mentis and walking around.  Generally speaking, I don't drive whilst asleep, I do it whilst I'm conscuious, as I hope everyone does.

Therefore, the argument they're presenting doesn't stick unless you don't consider all types of hypoglycaemia which, to quote Ian Hislop: "If this is justice, then I'm a banana".

The whole aim of the petition is to get this lunacy rectified as you, and I, and surely most of the people who have more than one brain cell in their head, can see that this definition and its associated decision is totally unfair and completely stupid.



> This page on DUK website might also be useful (though you may have seen it already)
> http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Guide-to-...is-taken-away/



Thank you for pointing that out, I have already seen it but it may be useful for others.  It has information, but its not particularly sound information...  Viewer discretion advised.



> If your driving licence is taken away (revoked) you can ask the DVLA to reconsider their decision. A doctor?s report can be most helpful, so it is important to discuss the circumstances with your doctor if you have an accident due to hypoglycaemia. You also have the right to appeal against the decision to revoke your licence, to the Magistrates Court. You must appeal within 6 months of the decision to revoke your licence (or 21 days in Scotland). Before you appeal to the Magistrates Court you should give notice of your intention to appeal to the DVLA. If the DVLA is prepared to reconsider its decision, you will not have to go through the process of an appeal in the Magistrates Court.



I fully intend to do this if the situation doesn't improve after a discussion between my consultant, my GP and the DVLA.  I really think I have a strong case here, its like punishing a child for wetting the bed.  A better example would be one of a person who is in a comatose state due to some non diabetes-related issue and them having two severe hypos.  Then when they wake up their licence is suspended upon renewal, is that really fair?



> Good luck with your petition!



Thanks, Mike.  Its picked up a lot of steam since its creation last night and I'm moving onto political figures now.  Lets hope some good comes from all this.



> offtopic: Nice to see another Martyn with a Y on the forums


Same to you!  I like that there's not many of us, we stand out a little more haha!



> all signed- our son will hopefully start learning to drive in the summer cant wait for the paperwork ahead!



Thank you very much, very grateful to you all.  I hope he doesn't have to go through all this and if he does that he sails through!

Best,

- Martyn


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## Highlander (Apr 18, 2013)

Sorry to hear this.

Unless the Hypos needed the assistance of another person, or you were driving at the time, then the answer to the question should have been No.


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## martynlloydkelly (Apr 18, 2013)

> Hi, agree it's outrageous! Will read & sign etc in a mo but have you tweeted this to Dominic Littlewood? (As in 'don't get done get Dom' series on tv)... He's a type 1 who drives so might be interested... Best of luck!



Hi Twitchy, thank you very much for signing, don't forget to share too (if its not too much trouble)!  I have indeed gotten in touch with Mr. Littlewood via. twitter, he's not responded as of yet, not sure if he goes on it much but its sent.  Diabetes UK have a list of celebrities who support the charity so I pretty much tweeted everyone they listed.  Thank you though, the support is most welcome 



> Sorry to hear this.
> 
> Unless the Hypos needed the assistance of another person, or you were driving at the time, then the answer to the question should have been No.



Exactly, its not like its a difficult concept to grasp: if you're unconscious and you don't have awareness of a hypo that develops into a severe hypo then that shouldn't affect your ability to operate a motor vehicle whilst conscious.

Just had tea, on to round 3 now!

Best,

- Martyn


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## delb t (Apr 18, 2013)

daughter on the case on fb


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## martynlloydkelly (Apr 18, 2013)

> daughter on the case on fb



Tell her thank you very much from me, I'm very grateful for all the support. Really.

Best,

- Martyn


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## bev (Apr 18, 2013)

Hi Martyn,

As far as I know it only counts if you needed assistance from a third party or you attended hospital. I may be wrong but why did you answer 'yes' if you didnt need either?I havent actually seen the form you filled in as son is only 15 but from what I have read you only need to answer yes if the criteria above applies.Bev


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## martynlloydkelly (Apr 18, 2013)

> As far as I know it only counts if you needed assistance from a third party or you attended hospital. I may be wrong but why did you answer 'yes' if you didnt need either?I havent actually seen the form you filled in as son is only 15 but from what I have read you only need to answer yes if the criteria above applies.Bev



Hi Bev,

This is the whole issue, I did require third party assistance (from my girlfriend who called the paramedics) but the hypo ended up being severe because I was asleep and had no awareness of the hypo (asymptomatic nocturnal hypoglycaemia).  I get excellent hypo awareness when conscious though, I've never, ever had a severe hypoglycaemic attack whilst awake.  Unless I'm asleep when operating a motor vehicle I fail to see how what I've indicated applies.  The form doesn't exactly state "Have you had 2 severe hypos whilst conscious in the past year" it just asks "Have you had 2 severe hypos in the past year".  The DVLA apparently don't distinguish between conscious and unconscious hypo awareness so if you're in a coma because of an issue unrelated to diabetes and you have 2 severe hypos whilst in the coma in the space of a year and you wake up a few days later then you can expect your licence to be revoked if you reapply within a year of the first hypo.

I hope that clarifies my position, if not, please do not hesitate to ask me to explain further!

Best,

- Martyn


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## Pumper_Sue (Apr 18, 2013)

Hi Martyn,
              basically you are sunk as you needed 3rd party assistance 
It was the good old EU who came up with the plan of action and the DVLA decided to impliment it as they saw fit. Even though the rules seem grossly unfair they have been in place for a couple of years now.

DVLA could infact throw the book at you if you didn't tell tem before renewall as tequ you were not allowed to drive from the 2nd hypo needing help.
Hopefully they wont do anything on that score, and you can apply for your licence back from the date of the last hypo needing help.
Good luck with it all.


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## bev (Apr 18, 2013)

Hi Martyn,

Oh sorry I didnt realise the full circumstances.The form doesnt seem to ask the relevant questions then? Surely some bright spark in the Medical Profession should have spotted there is a difference of when your asleep and awake! My son mostly has hypo-awareness but he also wears sensors and this wakes him of a night as it alarms his pump. I am not looking forward to him wanting to drive at all but mostly from just being a worried mum! 

If you had said you didnt have hypo-awareness in the daytime then I would have understood where the DVLA are coming from - you cant be too careful and I was at a Conference recently and was told a really high % of accidents are caused by someone with Type 1 - I cant remember the figure now but it was high - so they do need to be careful but asking the relevant questions in the first place would help wouldnt it!I will go and sign your petition now and hope it works out for you.Bev


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## Pumper_Sue (Apr 18, 2013)

Hi Bev, the law was changed a few years back to include night hypos needing assistance.
When it  was changed there was one heck of a stink kicked up over it. Nothing was done to change it though DVLA basically just said rules is rules and we didn't make em blame the EU.


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## bev (Apr 18, 2013)

Pumper_Sue said:


> Hi Bev, the law was changed a few years back to include night hypos needing assistance.
> When it  was changed there was one heck of a stink kicked up over it. Nothing was done to change it though DVLA basically just said rules is rules and we didn't make em blame the EU.



Hi Pumper_Sue,

Thanks - I must admit that I havent taken a lot of notice of it as it seemed a long way away from Alex driving.Bev


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## martynlloydkelly (Apr 18, 2013)

Rules or not, some are just plain wrong.  Look at the way black people were treated during the slave trade or Nazism in pre-war Germany.  

Just because somebody says that's the way it is doesn't mean that that's the way it should be.  The legislation needs to change which is the whole point of the petition.  Its completely unfair and based upon so solid scientific evidence.  This has disrupted my life to an incredible degree, I rely on my car for work, what am I supposed to do now?  If I had a severe hypo whilst conscious then I'd agree with their decision but this is just wrong.


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## martynlloydkelly (Apr 18, 2013)

Also, thanks for signing bev, means the world


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## bev (Apr 18, 2013)

Hi Martyn,

Lets hope you get somewhere with this - keep us all updated.Bev


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## margie (Apr 18, 2013)

Hi Martyn - You can apply for a Merseytravel  disabled pass on the grounds that you are being prevented from driving for medical reasons. Try the travel centre in Queens Square. (You mentioned the Liverpool Echo so I think that the above would apply to you). I appreciate its not the solution you are after but its worth keeping in mind.

A letter from your consultant may help, please find some time to relax in all of this  your stress levels won't help your BM and you sound like you are about to start pulling out your hair.

Good luck with the petition and appeal.


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## martynlloydkelly (Apr 18, 2013)

> Hi Martyn,
> 
> Lets hope you get somewhere with this - keep us all updated.Bev



Will do, Bev.  Paul O'Neil (racing driver, half brother of Mel C. from the Spice girls and type 1 diabetic) has retweeted the petition so hopefully it'll get some more exposure.  Currently setting up a meeting with my MP too, going to contact more media outlets tomorrow in between work to try and press the issue more!



> Hi Martyn - You can apply for a Merseytravel disabled pass on the grounds that you are being prevented from driving for medical reasons. Try the travel centre in Queens Square. (You mentioned the Liverpool Echo so I think that the above would apply to you). I appreciate its not the solution you are after but its worth keeping in mind.
> 
> A letter from your consultant may help, please find some time to relax in all of this your stress levels won't help your BM and you sound like you are about to start pulling out your hair.
> 
> Good luck with the petition and appeal.



That's fantastic advice thank you!  As I say, even if things don't work out well for me I want to stop this from happening to others as its just wrong on so many levels. 

My consultant and diabetes nurse specialist have said they will be in touch tomorrow so I'm keeping everything crossed!  Haha, thank you for your concern, I think my passion comes across as stress sometimes!  I'm honestly quite enjoying all the petition related activities, forum posting etc.  Reminds me of being in a band!

Thank you for the well wishes too, very much appreciated.

Best,

- Martyn


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## will2016 (Apr 18, 2013)

signed, and good luck


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## Austellian (Apr 18, 2013)

Good luck Martyn.  I'm waiting on the DVLA's decision after re-applying following revocation of my licence, so I'm following your situation with interest.


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## Cleo (Apr 19, 2013)

Sorry to hear about your current situation - I have also signed the petition (my name is Dina).  In terms of outreach / advocacy you could also try Phillip Schofield - his mum and brother are both Type 1s.

Good luck and please do keep us posted - the current legislation is completely ridiculous!


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## newbs (Apr 19, 2013)

Petition signed and shared.  I've been 'threatened' a few times by my consultant considering to inform the DVLA of numerous daytime hypos but thankfully always managed to pull things back.  The fact that your hypos happened at night while you were asleep is a huge difference to us but unfortunately not to the DVLA.  Best of luck!


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## Twitchy (Apr 19, 2013)

Possibly a mad idea but have you tweeted Jeremy Clarkson? I imagine the farcical nature of penalising someone over what happened in their sleep might apeal & he'd 'get' the impact of not being allowed to drive...?


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## novorapidboi26 (Apr 19, 2013)

Where your hypos in the night severe?


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## Lauras87 (Apr 19, 2013)

Twitchy said:


> Possibly a mad idea but have you tweeted Jeremy Clarkson? I imagine the farcical nature of penalising someone over what happened in their sleep might apeal & he'd 'get' the impact of not being allowed to drive...?



sounds a good idea twitchy, am going to send it to a few people myself


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## Redkite (Apr 19, 2013)

Twitchy said:


> Possibly a mad idea but have you tweeted Jeremy Clarkson? I imagine the farcical nature of penalising someone over what happened in their sleep might apeal & he'd 'get' the impact of not being allowed to drive...?


That's not a bad idea!  Jeremy Clarkson has a newspaper column and isn't shy of expressing his opinions!  Plus he lives next door to David Cameron....


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## redrevis (Apr 19, 2013)

novorapidboi26 said:


> Where your hypos in the night severe?



They were. Paramedics were called etc.


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## Highlander (Apr 19, 2013)

Twitchy said:


> Possibly a mad idea but have you tweeted Jeremy Clarkson? I imagine the farcical nature of penalising someone over what happened in their sleep might apeal & he'd 'get' the impact of not being allowed to drive...?



I like it..


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## Abi (Apr 19, 2013)

While in some cases those with severe night hypos are hypo unaware during the day and susceptible to severe daytime episodes- in many cases patients who have occasional severe nocturnal hypos do not have problematic daytime hypos
I've signed it as I believe that there should not be a blanket ban after a couple of nocturnal episodes- individual circumstances such as whether there is daytime hypo awareness should be assessed
I also don't like the length of bans due to hypoglycaemic episodes as in many cases the problem could be resolved and hypo awareness restored within a few weeks


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## bev (Apr 19, 2013)

Abi said:


> While in some cases those with severe night hypos are hypo unaware during the day and susceptible to severe daytime episodes- in many cases patients who have occasional severe nocturnal hypos do not have problematic daytime hypos
> I've signed it as I believe that there should not be a blanket ban after a couple of nocturnal episodes- individual circumstances such as whether there is daytime hypo awareness should be assessed
> I also don't like the length of bans due to hypoglycaemic episodes as in many cases the problem could be resolved and hypo awareness restored within a few weeks




Hi Abi,

Just interested to know how you can restore hypo awareness? As far as I know you cant - our team are not keen on the old fashioned idea of running levels higher for a few weeks in order to then feel a hypo coming on - it doesnt work - at least not in children anyway.Bev


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## Abi (Apr 19, 2013)

In some circumstances hypo awareness can return- of course not in all cases 
I realise that running levels higher to avoid hypos is not always successful but have come across plenty of people whose awareness improves when steps are taken to reduce the frequency of hypos. 
ALso type of insulin and other factors such as stress, other medications such as beta blockers and pregnancy can affect hypo unawareness
Very frustrating for those who have tried everything and still can;t restore awareness though


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## bev (Apr 19, 2013)

Abi said:


> In some circumstances hypo awareness can return- of course not in all cases
> I realise that running levels higher to avoid hypos is not always successful but have come across plenty of people whose awareness improves when steps are taken to reduce the frequency of hypos.
> ALso type of insulin and other factors such as stress, other medications such as beta blockers and pregnancy can affect hypo unawareness
> Very frustrating for those who have tried everything and still can;t restore awareness though



Hi Abi,

Obviously Alex being a boy we wouldnt know about pregnancy - he he! It is good to know that for some adults it does work - it doesnt seem to in children at all.Bev


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## Abi (Apr 19, 2013)

Hope that situation improves for Alex if the hypo unawareness is currently a problem


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## martynlloydkelly (Apr 19, 2013)

Hi everyone, 

First of all thanks for the continued interest from everyone, I haven't been online today very much as I've been running around a lot (life without a car is tough!).  Big news is that I was invited to do an interview by Andrew Bonner for Granada Reports (Northwest ITV news program).  The interview focused upon my situation and the petition to some extent (personal stories make better TV) but tried to get all important messages across and mention the petition.  It will be shown at 18:00 on Monday, 22/04/2013 so I hope those who can see it will tune in and have a blimp at me trying to explain why the EU is backwards!

Diabetes UK's "Advocay" group is also backing me 100% with the petition and my application as is my consultant and nurse specialist, all good news on that front!

Petition was retweeted today by JDRF UK today (a type 1 diabetes charity) and Kevin Simm (singer in Liberty X, he's the borther of a friend of mine).  Various media types have also been following me and chatting on Twitter, I'm also setting up a meeting with my MP soon.  All is going well!

Just updated the petition news too if anybody wants to watch?  



> signed, and good luck





> Good luck Martyn. I'm waiting on the DVLA's decision after re-applying following revocation of my licence, so I'm following your situation with interest.



Thank you both very much, your support is much appreciated and I hope that the decision comes back positive for you.  Doesn't half affect you in ways you never imagined, its horrible to think that this is happening to other people.



> Sorry to hear about your current situation - I have also signed the petition (my name is Dina). In terms of outreach / advocacy you could also try Phillip Schofield - his mum and brother are both Type 1s.
> 
> Good luck and please do keep us posted - the current legislation is completely ridiculous!



Many thanks for the suggestion, I've already attempted to tweet the Schofe but he must get hundreds of tweets per hour so mine's probably gotten buried somewhere!  Thank you as well for the good wishes 



> Petition signed and shared. I've been 'threatened' a few times by my consultant considering to inform the DVLA of numerous daytime hypos but thankfully always managed to pull things back. The fact that your hypos happened at night while you were asleep is a huge difference to us but unfortunately not to the DVLA. Best of luck!



Thank you, fantastic that you've managed to regain control and not have suffered the dreaded blanket suspension.  That's what I'm trying to combat, the ignorance of the directive.



> Possibly a mad idea but have you tweeted Jeremy Clarkson? I imagine the farcical nature of penalising someone over what happened in their sleep might apeal & he'd 'get' the impact of not being allowed to drive...?



Good idea!  I'll have a pop in a moment!



> Where your hypos in the night severe?



Severe in the sense that I required assistance and ended up fitting but I've had fits where I've woken up "ridden them out" and then gotten up afterwards to eat and recover.  So what is "severe" exactly?  By the DVLA's definition if I was, say, working on a car and was hypo and asked a mate to get me a Lucozade then that's "severe" as a third party has been involved in the treatment of the hypo.



> sounds a good idea twitchy, am going to send it to a few people myself



Thank you so much, we need more people sending and putting this around, that should see the petition signatures reach critical mass and then grow exponentially (with a bit of luck)!



> While in some cases those with severe night hypos are hypo unaware during the day and susceptible to severe daytime episodes- in many cases patients who have occasional severe nocturnal hypos do not have problematic daytime hypos
> I've signed it as I believe that there should not be a blanket ban after a couple of nocturnal episodes- individual circumstances such as whether there is daytime hypo awareness should be assessed
> I also don't like the length of bans due to hypoglycaemic episodes as in many cases the problem could be resolved and hypo awareness restored within a few weeks



All true and all things that should be considered in the EU directives, every last point.



> Hope that situation improves for Alex if the hypo unawareness is currently a problem



Same here, thats horrible, I'd hate to not be hypo aware 

Love to all, thank you for your continued support.  Please keep sharing and raising awareness, we're starting to make a real impact!

Best,

- Martyn


----------



## martynlloydkelly (Apr 19, 2013)

Petition update video has had problems due to youTube restrictions on time.

All sorted now, uploading as we speak, apologies!

- Martyn


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## bev (Apr 19, 2013)

Hi Martyn,


Thanks for the update - looks like you are attracting a lot of support - well done.

Alex does have hypo-awareness - very good in fact. I am just wondering how you are planning to cope with any future (touch wood you wont) severe hypo's? What do you normally do when you have had a lot of exercise?Bev

p.s. We always support JDRF - they are the future.


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## martynlloydkelly (Apr 19, 2013)

> Thanks for the update - looks like you are attracting a lot of support - well done.



Thank you!  Petition was just retweeted by Michelle Heaton from Liberty X, more exposure!

- Martyn


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## martynlloydkelly (Apr 19, 2013)

Hi everyone,

Latest video update is now live in the "News" section of the petition, if you have the time please check it out 

Best,

- Martyn


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## martynlloydkelly (Apr 20, 2013)

Hi everyone,

I have just written to George Howarth MP asking if he wouold consider meeting with me to dicuss where this petition should be heading to make the biggest impact and to raise awareness for it in the public-eye.  I'll keep you all updated with regards to this.

I'm also asking for all those who have had their licences suspended by the DVLA due to the "2 hypo tick box" to consider telling me about their experience.  This will help to provide evidence for the unnecessary detrimental effect the EU directive and the DVLA's enforcement of it has upon people's lives. These testimonials can obviously done by private channels if necessary but as a consequence of thinking about this I am looking to create a centralised web-site (I'm a web programmer so I suppose I should earn my keep) where I can organise everything and spread awareness.  It doesn't help that the URL for the petition is so long, I don't think there is a way to change this either.  The site itself would allow others to submit their experiences and stories, comment upon the issue and provide an easy to remember URL that the petition can be accessed from.

I would love to hear any feedback on this idea and if anyone knows of any graphic designers who would be willing to design a neat layout then I would be most appreciative.  If anyone is also well versed in coding (I'm thinking of using CakePHP as I use this in my job and its excellent for database integration, which will be required) then please get in touch as I will be using Git and GitHub to develop the site so we can all contribute.  Furthermore, if anyone knows of any cheap hosting available for sites with integrated MySQL administration tools then details of these would be fantastic.

Thank you all once again for your support, please keep sharing the petition!  https://www.change.org/en-GB/petiti...sion-of-drivers-licences-for-type-1-diabetics

Best,

- Martyn


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## HelenM (Apr 20, 2013)

You ask whether it would considered severe if your mate passed you a drink.
This is from the DVLA medical panel minutes (Oct 2011)


http://www.dft.gov.uk/dvla/medical/...aladvisory_meetings/minutes/2011 Minutes.aspx


> The Panel emphasised that severe hypoglycaemia is defined in the EU Annex as: “the assistance of another person is needed”.  This means that if help was proffered (for example by a relative or associate) but had not actually been essential to treat an episode of hypoglycaemia, it would not be classified as “severe”.


They also said


> The Panel accepted that the new annex does not distinguish between episodes of severe hypoglycaemia occurring either when awake or asleep and noted the media interest in this issue.


This was followed up and in  the following meeting noted


> 4.1(i) Clarification received from the EU has confirmed DVLA’s interpretation of the new EU Annex that no distinction can be made between episodes of severe hypoglycaemia either when awake or asleep.



 I live in  France which colours my views.  I swapped my UK licence for a French one but didn't actually have to (except my UK one was no longer valid when I became diabetic).   I can drive anywhere in Europe with it, as can people with a UK licence. If we can drive anywhere then then the regulations should be the same.

 There was previously no consistency  across  Europe.  There were certainly some countries which had very 'lax' legislation, others tighter than the rules are now. The UK was very strict  in not allowing people to drive group 2 vehicles and somewhere in between for car drivers (some countries only allowed one severe hypo followed by a 2 year ban) but the definition of severe hypo varied.
 However even with the new regulations there are certainly inconsistencies between the application of the directive between the UK and France (and I suspect elsewhere)   
  I know that the new laws are considered very unfair in France but for different reasons to the UK  :the way the law is applied here  discriminates against young T1s whilst those of us that are older aren't (yet) affected.
 Someone who is on insulin before applying for a new licence has to face  what I think are more stringent procedures than in the UK. The regulations on  severe hypos are the same but you  have to convince an independent medical examiner that you haven't had  them,  that you are  fully hypo aware and fit to drive. The medic is appointed by the local prefecture and may know little about diabetes. Rumour has it that some are most likely to turn you down or give a very limited licence. This must be very scary for a teenager applying for a first licence. This examination occurs at each renewal (licence given for up to 5 years but may actually be much less)

 But there is a huge  loophole. A person who has passed their test before they go onto insulin doesn't have to go through this because there is no obligation to declare your diabetes  except when you reapply for a licence  No-one has to get a new licence except if they lose it for a traffic offence. This will change but very slowly; new licences  from 2013 are for 15 years not life.(though I note the French associations page on driving is currently being redone, I suppose that could be another change in the law on the way)

 Personally, I think that it is doubtful if a petition will change things at national level. The UK actually  had a big input to the working party which provided the background info to the EU ,2 members and the  consultant. The external consultant  was Prof Brian Frier who happens to be one of the major 'authorities' on hypoglycaemia
http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Diabetes...e-Award/Banting-Memorial-Lecture-Brian-Frier/

I think that  you have to think about getting things changed at the EU level. This would involve  getting other diabetic associations involved (I'm sure I remember DUK saying something about discussing what was happening elsewhere in Europe),  contacting Euro MPS.
 It might be worth contacting Prof Frier and asking his opinion on nocturnal hypos. I've searched the report and can't find that they considered them
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/pdf/behavior/diabetes_and_driving_in_europe_final_1_en.pdf


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## martynlloydkelly (Apr 20, 2013)

> You ask whether it would considered severe if your mate passed you a drink.



Thank you for the information regarding this, I realised after posting that example that I was wrong in what I had said as the DIAB1 form states "Do not count episodes where you could have treated yourself", or something to that effect, I'm just recalling from memory there.



> There was previously no consistency across Europe. There were certainly some countries which had very 'lax' legislation, others tighter than the rules are now. The UK was very strict in not allowing people to drive group 2 vehicles and somewhere in between for car drivers (some countries only allowed one severe hypo followed by a 2 year ban) but the definition of severe hypo varied.
> However even with the new regulations there are certainly inconsistencies between the application of the directive between the UK and France (and I suspect elsewhere)



That all comes down to the fact that its a "directive" rather than a "law", its up to each member state to interpret the directive in their own way but they have to meet some sort of minimum requirement.  Its still a devil of bureaucracy though, why there just isn't one clear requirement that all can adhere to though is beyond me.  Too much work perhaps or maybe a matter of politics, who can tell, it is politics we're discussing here.



> Personally, I think that it is doubtful if a petition will change things at national level. The UK actually had a big input to the working party which provided the background info to the EU ,2 members and the consultant. The external consultant was Prof Brian Frier who happens to be one of the major 'authorities' on hypoglycaemia



There are a number of MP's including the PM who do not believe that the directive is correct.  The idea here of the petition is to show that there is enough of a public outcry to warrant taking these beliefs further.  Why Prof. Brian Frier has said that there is no difference beyond conscious and unconscious is beyond me as this is clearly not the case, the fact that you've not found any evidence is not surprising.  I'm thinking about approaching various medical lectures at the University as well as my consultant and his contacts to press the issue that there is medical evidence proving the distinction between conscious and unconscious hypos.

I knew this all along but its becoming more and more apparent now that this is a matter of politics vs. science.  No matter what, the science should always triumph as in the majority of cases, science outlines universal truths whereas transient political agendas only outlines the falsities of the politicians that back them.

Thank you so very, very much for the information though it is both enlightening and extremely helpful.  Its also identified some avenues of attack which if exploited, may help to win the day.

Best,

- Martyn


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## Lauren (Apr 20, 2013)

Hi, I have signed. I think people's complete lack of a basic understanding of Diabetes, especially of those who are in a position to enforce this kind of control over us, is ridiculous. I hope everything is sorted out for you soon.


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## HOBIE (Apr 20, 2013)

Well done for doing this Martyn, sorry your in this situation.  Good luck   Did done petition


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## martynlloydkelly (Apr 20, 2013)

Many thanks to you both for signing, don't forget to share too!



> I think people's complete lack of a basic understanding of Diabetes, especially of those who are in a position to enforce this kind of control over us, is ridiculous.



Essentially yes, that's what appears to have bred this directive.  Can't understand it, especially given the information I was provided with earlier.  Absolutely illogical.

Thank you both for your condolences and well wishes too.  Much appreciated!

Best,

- Martyn


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## martynlloydkelly (Apr 21, 2013)

Hello everyone,

Apologies for being a bit off the radar yesterday, I've been busy putting my web design skills to good use!

I've now created a centralised web site where I can contact people in a much quicker way, the site isn't online yet as I'm waiting for my hosting request to be validated then I need to get the site online etc.  That shouldn't take too long after the hosting account activation however.

Will keep you all posted!

Best,

- Martyn


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## ypauly (Apr 21, 2013)

Signed and shared. Good luck.


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## martynlloydkelly (Apr 21, 2013)

> Signed and shared. Good luck.



Many thanks, the support is very much appreciated!

Best,

- Martyn


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## rossi_mac (Apr 21, 2013)

Just about to sign, DVLA and this stuff really winds me up, if I ever get my licence revoked I will be up  a certain creek with no paddle! Thank you for having the energy to do more about it than you need to.

Cheers

Rossi


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## martynlloydkelly (Apr 21, 2013)

Hello 

Quick video update on the petition, explains what I've been up to, what I have planned and some musings upon how the suspension has affected my life thus far.

PETITION: http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitio...sion-of-drivers-licences-for-type-1-diabetics

VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fcr7AZVSiKA



> Just about to sign, DVLA and this stuff really winds me up, if I ever get my licence revoked I will be up a certain creek with no paddle! Thank you for having the energy to do more about it than you need to.



Thanks, Rossi.  Its people like yourself that are motivating me to do this.  I won't stand by and watch clueless agencies enforce legislation that is uninformed and contradictory to all known understanding of the condition.  Not when it has such an effect on people's lives.  Sure its only a driver's licence but if you've planned your life around the ability to drive then its a crushing blow to be dealt, especially when you've had no time to prepare.  Hopefully all this will give people a paddle, one that should have been there in the first place.

Thank you all and keep sharing!

- Martyn


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## martynlloydkelly (Apr 23, 2013)

Hello everybody!

Well, I've been busy   Lots more signatures on the petition and hopefully more now with the unveiling of the official website! www.diabetesdvla.co.uk

I'm intending to keep this page as updated as possible, please signup to stay informed with developments and follow the official Twitter if you can!

The report on Granada was postponed unfortunately as they're still looking for a medical expert to comment upon the situation.

Hope you are all well and thank you all again for signing and sharing, lets keep it up, hopefully things will be more organised and communication will be easier with the addition of the site!

Best,

- Martyn


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## Hanmillmum (Apr 23, 2013)

Hi Martyn, I signed a few days ago as I would hate my daughter to face all this rubbish when she enters adulthood. I admire your hard work and effort you are putting into resolving this injustice, keep at it


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## martynlloydkelly (Apr 23, 2013)

> Hi Martyn, I signed a few days ago as I would hate my daughter to face all this rubbish when she enters adulthood. I admire your hard work and effort you are putting into resolving this injustice, keep at it



Thank you so, so much for supporting, did you manage to share too?  Thank you as well for the kind words, I'm trying to do this for people like your daughter!

Best,

- Martyn


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## Hanmillmum (Apr 23, 2013)

Yes, I have shared of course


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## martynlloydkelly (Apr 23, 2013)

> Yes, I have shared of course



Very much obliged, thank you!


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## KateR (Apr 23, 2013)

Sorry Martin I have tried signing the petition but I keep getting an error message. Will try again tomorrow.


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## Copepod (Apr 23, 2013)

redrevis said:


> This is all down to the definition of 'severe' and daytime and night time hypo awareness. The DVLA define severe as "requiring the assistance of another person". Like the DVLA said, they won't make any allowance for a severe hypo happening in the night. They also state:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Interestingly, DVLA does distinguish between fits during night time / sleeping and day time / awake for people with epilepsy - class 1 drivers (cars & motorbikes) who only have fits in their sleep can apply to regain their licence after 1 year with only that type of fit, instead of having to wait 3 years. And there is a 6 month period after a change of medication, instead of previous 1 year period. Those who have daytime fits still have to remain fit free for 3 years.


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## martynlloydkelly (Apr 23, 2013)

> Sorry Martin I have tried signing the petition but I keep getting an error message. Will try again tomorrow.



No problem, thank you for trying! I wonder if its happening to anybody else? I hope not!

Best,

- Martyn


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## Marier (Apr 24, 2013)

Hi Martyn    Are the DVLA refering to question have you ever had a hypo ??? and beceuse you put yes   they have decided you unfit to drive ???    I am so sorry to read this   have tryd to sighn  but wont let me il try again tommrw 
Marie


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## martynlloydkelly (Apr 24, 2013)

Hello everybody!



> Hi Martyn Are the DVLA refering to question have you ever had a hypo ??? and beceuse you put yes they have decided you unfit to drive ??? I am so sorry to read this have tryd to sighn but wont let me il try again tommrw



That's exactly it, Marie.  Thank you for your sympathy and for attempting to sign, did you have any joy signing today?

I had a phone call today from Diabetes UK's "Advocacy" service which essentially backs up what I've read regarding the absence of medical evidence cited during the discussions regarding the EU directive's creation and the DVLA's interpretation thereof (thank you to those who linked me to that information).  This is especially encouraging news as it means that I'm at least on the right path with this and that I have a solid argument.  I've also been passed information regarding the International Diabetes Federation and the Association of British Clinical Diabetologists who opposed this EU directive and UK interpretation when they were first proposed.  The Association of British Clinical Diabetologists in particular queried the evidence behind the decision but was never presented with any.  I'm intending to contact both of these groups to gain further information which could help increase the effect of the petition in parliament.

Keep signing and sharing guys, thank you all so much for your support so far!

Best,

- Martyn


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## Marier (Apr 24, 2013)

OMG    I said yes on my quistionair  that im posting  on Tue after i get my photo done  to yes that iv had a hypo in last 12 months bt not  needing assistance  from anyone  as i managed it myself  OMG im so worryd now ,   Not had chance to do petition il just go try now


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## Marier (Apr 25, 2013)

Sorry Martyn  It still wont let me everytime i click  sighn  it comes up error  on page  will keep trying though .


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## Pumper_Sue (Apr 25, 2013)

Marier said:


> OMG    I said yes on my quistionair  that im posting  on Tue after i get my photo done  to yes that iv had a hypo in last 12 months bt not  needing assistance  from anyone  as i managed it myself  OMG im so worryd now ,   Not had chance to do petition il just go try now



Why the heck did you tell em you had had a hypo if you didn't need help?
Have a look at this  booklet on how to fill the form in http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consu...n/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_202154.pdf

Perhaps you need to review what you have written and if it's not correct then download the form from the net and rewrite it.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Apr 25, 2013)

Marier said:


> OMG    I said yes on my quistionair  that im posting  on Tue after i get my photo done  to yes that iv had a hypo in last 12 months bt not  needing assistance  from anyone  as i managed it myself  OMG im so worryd now ,   Not had chance to do petition il just go try now



There are distinct boxes on the form for hypos that needed assistance if I remember right.

I have said that I have had hypos (which is true as I haven't stayed above 4.0mmol/L for 12 months and my meter will show that) but that I have had **no** hypos that needed 3rd party assistance (also true - not had anything I couldn't deal with 100% myself for years). My license was renewed fine, so depending on what you put in which box you should OK I think.


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## Vicsetter (Apr 25, 2013)

Whilst I sympathise with your predicament, Martyn, Can I ask why you seem obsessed with Type 1 Diabetes as the rules and form DIAB1 applies to any diabetic on appropriate medicine, I can only think that you will confuse people (non-D people that is).  The way you have worded your petition and website means I cannot support you.

I also don't understand why this is not in the Driving/DVLA forum either.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Apr 25, 2013)

Vicsetter said:


> I also don't understand why this is not in the Driving/DVLA forum either.



It began there, and another member suggested that a duplicatre thread was created in General (to attract more attention). I merged the two threads so save confusion, but perhaps it is now time to return it back to the DVLA board where the OP put it originally.


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## Northerner (Apr 25, 2013)

Vicsetter said:


> Whilst I sympathise with your predicament, Martyn, Can I ask why you seem obsessed with Type 1 Diabetes as the rules and form DIAB1 applies to any diabetic on appropriate medicine, I can only think that you will confuse people (non-D people that is).  The way you have worded your petition and website means I cannot support you.
> 
> I also don't understand why this is not in the Driving/DVLA forum either.



It is now  I agree that often Type 1 is portrayed as the only type that will be using insulin or other hypoglycaemic agents which can limit the response to petitions.

I'm just glad I don't drive, the number of times this same problem seems to appear, but I do agree that a sleeping/night time hypo should never be a basis for withdrawing the license


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## martynlloydkelly (Apr 25, 2013)

Hi everyone,



> There are distinct boxes on the form for hypos that needed assistance if I remember right.



Just to clarify: there's only the one box which you should tick if you've had two hypos that required assistance.  There are no questions on the form regarding hypos that did not require assistance.



> Whilst I sympathise with your predicament, Martyn, Can I ask why you seem obsessed with Type 1 Diabetes as the rules and form DIAB1 applies to any diabetic on appropriate medicine, I can only think that you will confuse people (non-D people that is). The way you have worded your petition and website means I cannot support you.



Its not that I'm obsessed its just that I wasn't sure how these things worked for type 2 diabetics!  The petition has now been updated so that it covers all diabetics, I'll be changing any wording on the www.diabetesdvla.co.uk website too to reflect this.  Thank you for pointing it out (some others have too before hand, its not that I ignored you all I just ended up getting caught up in some other task that needed doing!).

Thank you all once again for signing and sharing, please keep it up!

Best,

- Martyn


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## spiritfree (Apr 25, 2013)

Hello Martyn. I've just signed your petition.. I totally agree with you.


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## martynlloydkelly (Apr 25, 2013)

> Hello Martyn. I've just signed your petition.. I totally agree with you.



Thanks, spiritfree, means a lot!  Don't forget to share it if you have the time, the more people that see this, the better.  Glad you agree, seems like this is provoking strong reactions from people.  I still have no idea how this was put into action by the EU and DVLA despite a complete lack of medical evidence.

Best,

- Martyn


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## bev (Apr 26, 2013)

Hi Martyn,

I have shared this on the CWD list (childrenwithdiabetes) as there are over 500 members (parents of a child with Type 1) so hopefully you will get more support.Bev


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## martynlloydkelly (Apr 26, 2013)

> I have shared this on the CWD list (childrenwithdiabetes) as there are over 500 members (parents of a child with Type 1) so hopefully you will get more support.Bev



Thank you so much Bev, that's exactly what I need!  Very much appreciated 

Best,

- Martyn


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## martynlloydkelly (Apr 27, 2013)

Hello everyone,

Prrogress with the petition has been excellent recently, so this post is designed to keep you all informed as to what is happening.  Firstly, I met with my local MP, Stephen Twigg, yesterday, to discuss a plan of action for how we can have this bill discussed by politicians who have the power to call for a reconsideration of the EU directive and the DVLA's interpretation of it.  He fully backs my argument and has shared the petition on Twitter to give validity to his support.  I do not have exact details of what is going to be done as the meeting was relatively quick and a lot was said however, Stephen's secretary, Kevin, has promised that he will send me the minutes of the meeting.  I'll let you all know about what's in those minutes when I receive them on Monday.  Needless to say, various MP's will be being contacted and we are attempting to push for a debate in parliament itself.

Secondly, George Howarth MP has written to me via. e-mail and also given me his full support.  He has also offered his services in backing Stephen's actions but as parliamentary procedure dictates, he can not directly represent me as I am not one of his constituents.  He is, however, a member of the all party parliamentary group for diabetes and will be bringing the matter and my petition to their attention.  Furthermore, he will be circulating details of the petition to those he knows in the diabetes community.  This is a tremendous help and also adds further support to my argument, as you can no doubt tell, i am ecstatic with regards to these developments and I am more confident than ever that we can change the situation to benefit all diabetic drivers across the country and potentially Europe.

Finally, I posted a video update last night detailing other recent developments so if you have a chance to, please have a look at it, the petition site is here: http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitio...-suspension-of-drivers-licences-for-diabetics

Thank you all again for your support, signatures, sharing and hard work.  We're starting to make some important headway with regards to this now so lets keep up the fight!

Best,

- Martyn


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## rossi_mac (May 8, 2013)

Just looked on the change.org website, nearly a thousand signatues (964) keep up the good work peeps and keep sharing...


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## martynlloydkelly (May 8, 2013)

Hello everybody!

Apologies for my recent radio silence/abscene, I've been tremendously busy and this is really the first free moment I've had to drop you all a line and keep you informed as to what is going on: with regards to the petition itself, there's not an awful lot happening. We're nearly at 1000 signatures though so any sharing that you guys might be able to do would be great!

With regards to my own situation I've recently seen my consultant at the diabetes clinic I attend and have asked if he would supply a letter of support along with my licence reapplication form. I was overjoyed to hear that he would indeed oblige me with this and we have set to gathering all required information to allow this letter to be written up, I'm currently waiting for it to drop through my postbox. Not sure if this will work but having heard of "Inthesky"s success I'm somewhat hopeful that the situation may be rectified. At the moment my girlfriend has started her driving lessons and we're hoping to have one of us on the road (at least) before the end of summer.

Thank you all once again for your continued support, lets try and push the signatures up to 1000 by the end of Friday night!

Best,

- Martyn


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## Northerner (May 8, 2013)

Hope the letter from your consultant helps Martyn. I've shared your petition on FB, hope you get the 1000 signatures very soon!


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## Diabetaids (May 8, 2013)

Sorry to hear about my worst nightmare come true. I've linked your story to http://tpuc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=61793 - a helpful and lawful forum who like to dabble in peoples rights!


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## tracey w (May 15, 2013)

Signed good luck


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## Lesoxley (May 25, 2013)

*Court appeal*

Martin

I have had a similar situation as yourself and am actually going to appeal the DVLA's decision at a Magistrates court. Have you any knowledge of anyone who has actually appealed to a Magistrates court against their licence being revoked.

Les


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## Copepod (May 25, 2013)

Welcome to the forum, Lesoxley - but sorry you have to be here with diabetes and a problem with DVLA.


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## FergusC (May 27, 2013)

Copepod 
The respondant *claims to be type 1*(so here with diabetes), and *IS* having a problem with DVLA and is asking about a possible route of remedy


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## Copepod (May 28, 2013)

Not sure why you're angry, FergusC?

I'd be far happier if no-one had type 1 (or any type of diabetes) and that no-one had problems with DVLA. But, given that situation, I'm glad Les found this forum, and hope that it will lead them to a remedy. I didn't have any solution to suggest, but didn't want to ignore them by failing to give a welcome etc.

Would be good if Martin could respond to Les - by keeping thread active, that makes a response more likely.


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## FergusC (May 28, 2013)

Copepod said:


> Not sure why you're angry, FergusC?
> 
> .


May be how it looked last night but your comment seemed like you were trying to say " sorry , youre not one of us with our problems" 
"_snip_...but sorry you have to be here with diabetes and a problem with DVLA..._snip_" and this could turn someone away. Sorry if I read it wrong!


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## Pumper_Sue (May 28, 2013)

FergusC said:


> May be how it looked last night but your comment seemed like you were trying to say " sorry , youre not one of us with our problems"
> "_snip_...but sorry you have to be here with diabetes and a problem with DVLA..._snip_" and this could turn someone away. Sorry if I read it wrong!



Hi Fergus,
I think you misread/understood Copepods reply  Copepod is one of the nicest people on this forum being kind and considerate with all her replies with practical and sensible advice thrown in for good measure.


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## FergusC (May 28, 2013)

Pumper_Sue said:


> Hi Fergus,
> I think you misread/understood Copepods reply  Copepod is one of the nicest people on this forum being kind and considerate with all her replies with practical and sensible advice thrown in for good measure.



Didn't seem like a normal copepod reply.


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## Pumper_Sue (May 28, 2013)

FergusC said:


> Didn't seem like a normal copepod reply.



I'm even more confused, All Copepod did was welcome the poster to the forum and say she was sorry OP was having problems with the DVLA.

Copepod was the only one on the forum to welcome the OP and has no knowledge of magistrates courts thus could comment no further.

Perhaps if you have any knowledge you would be kind enough to part with it instead of picking on Copepod


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## FergusC (May 28, 2013)

All Copepod did was welcome the poster to the forum and say she was sorry OP was having problems with the DVLA. This was where this miunderstanding happened:
Original reply read"Welcome to the forum, Lesoxley - but sorry you have to be here with diabetes and a problem with DVLA." 
I (mis) read it as " Sorry, you have to be here with diabetes and a problem with DVLA" to be commenting on this as if the poster was neither! 
I apologise Copepod, as i say This would be most unlike your usual self so Mea Culpa, Mea axima Culpa.


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## Copepod (May 28, 2013)

I'm only just back to forum after morning at work. No offence was intended by either me or FergusC, I'm pretty sure. Sometimes my perhaps overly precise use of English is misunderstood, if read too quickly. 

Thanks to both FergusC for apology and Pumper_Sue for explaining what I meant


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## Ditchmonsterob (Jun 26, 2013)

*Same situation*

Hi Martyn

I have almost exactly the same problem as you, should you wish to hear the full story for use as ammo please feel free to contact me.

Good luck mate


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## Copepod (Jun 26, 2013)

Welcome to the forum, Ditchmonsterob. You'll have to make some posts before you can use PM facility. So, join in!


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## Jezthedog (Aug 15, 2013)

I too can see the issues with the faceless people at the Dvla, although mine was slightly different in circumstances, I suffered severe sickness a night before driving, got up the following morn reading of 7.6 set off driving after usual breakfast and suffered a severe hypo resulting in rear ending another vehicle at low speed. My warning signs were there but by the time I had started to pull over to remedy the fact it was too late. 
I drive for a living so ultimately now will lose my job and livelihood because the Dvla do not take each case separate. The facts that I have been driving for 25+ years without a speeding ticket, accident, or any issues with my diabetes causing any problem, they still look at a reference piece of paper and this is what it says so this is what will happen, irrelevant to the consequences to the driver and his life. They could see I follow all the rules, I even test every hour rather than the stated 2hrs just to feel secure in myself.
Don't know if anyone out there has had any success in appealing a same sort of decision, my doctor agrees it is a stupid way to run the laws of the land without even consulting with him for his opinion first.
I will appeal via the magistrates court ( probably at an unrealistic cost) though would be grateful if anyone knows of any success. In this method
Petition to be signed - good luck with it, faceless discrimination is hard to beat and as said, ring them up and they answer from a set program so don't expect any joy
Cheers


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## Oblomov (Aug 15, 2013)

I have signed your petition.
The same thing happened to me. 2 night-time hypos, requiring assistance. I had excellent daytime hypo awareness. I lost my licence. And it was  a nightmare. I lost my job. Diabetes UK were very pleasant. 

I finally hired a lawyer. Philip Somarakis. He is the nicest person and one of the top lawyers regarding Driving offences. He helped me get it back. He said it was a tough fight against the DVLA.

My diabetic consultant accepts that I am now frightened to tell anyone if I have a night-time hypo.


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## gynncarrie (Aug 21, 2013)

*HGV licence revoked*

Hiya, my husband is a type 1 diabetic and has been for 30 years. He has been driving for a living for the past 15 years and has never had a hypo needing assistance in his life. Last year he became a HGV driver and has worked for the past year for a local haulage firm. His licence was due for renewal in June and after the endless forms, eye test etc he got the last form to be filled in by his doctor. DVLA sent this directly to his doctor despite the fact he has always seen his diabetic consultant and has never actually met his registered doctor! Anyhow, despite excellent blood glucose monitoring records with 3-5 (if not more) tests daily the doctor would not tick the box 'does the applicant test their bloods at times relevant to driving' as she was very firm that he must have blood records for every 2 hours every day. We understood her guidelines but this appears to be relatively new as it was not a guideline he had ever read or been made clear on. If it had been he would have ensured he was complying. Despite this she did put a note on the form to say she was happy with his safety and ability to drive and that she had seen his blood monitoring records. 
Several weeks later, after the 'NO' ticked on the form, we received the DVLA letter to say his licence had been revoked, and that his car licence was also under review! This meant an instant loss of employment! 
After a lot of stress my husband went back to the doctor who was shocked and wrote a supporting letter to DVLA stating she, and his consultant were entirely happy for him to retain a HGV licence and that he had excellent blood sugar control, good awareness of hypos and no cause for concern.
DVLA clearly put the forms through a machine that make instant decisions without a 2nd glance at any notes or previous information.
So now my husband has been out of work for a month and we are waiting on DVLA to process this letter so we know if he can have the licence re-issued, or if he will have to re-apply.
The whole system is a mockery as nothing has changed in his circumstance or health. There is no doubt he can get his licence back if he re-applies as his doctor and consultant are happy with him and he is testing his bloods at least twice daily (as he now is not needing the 2 hour rule as he is not allowed to drive )!!! Its an absolute joke and waste of time, and it seems you can never talk to anyone at the top in DVLA or that there is an sort of adequate appeal process or compensation! They seriously need to review how things are done!


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## Pigeon (Aug 21, 2013)

My colleague's husband has nocturnal epilepsy but is allowed to drive as his fits only ever take place when he is asleep. Does anyone know why the rules for diabetic nighttime hypos are different to this?


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