# Claiming PIP... Yes or No?



## SarahWilliams82 (Jul 27, 2016)

I am really struggling financially despite working full time, as I am on the sick again for the third time since my diagnosis of T1 IDD in 2014.

A friend has suggested that I apply for PIP as I would qualify, but feel that if I pulled my finger out, looked after myself better, took all the advice I'm given, sorted my depression and anxiety, then I would be able to work the hours I need to.

But I feel that I would be cheating as I don't want to be seen to need it, and that I can live without it, and that I would be taking it from someone who really needs it.

What have you all done?


----------



## Copepod (Jul 27, 2016)

Welcome to the forum, Sarah. PIP isn't an income replacement benefit, so from what you've said ESA or tax credit might more appropriate to your situation, especially as you mention depression, anxiety and type 1 diabetes. What hours / times are you working and what are you doing? Do you have any complications from T1D? Unlikely, I guess, if diagnosed 2014. It's virtually unheard of for someone with T1D alone to get PIP, but possible on basis of depression and / or anxiety and / or complications.


----------



## SarahWilliams82 (Jul 27, 2016)

I am a staff nurse working 30 hours a week currently... I am not entitled to esa or tax credits as I earn too much money and/or work too many hours... the financial stress is adding to my depression and ability to cope with my diabetes due to depression and anxiety...

My complication's include intermittent numbness in hands and feet... no warning hypos or inability to stay awake and focus on anything when really high... my remaining beta cells dramatically fallen with great speed in two years and have next to no pancreatic function now.


----------



## AJLang (Jul 27, 2016)

Hi Sarah I've had Type 1 diabetes for 45 years, my pancreatic function stopped when I was two years old and have complications along with other disabilities. However I do not meet the criteria for PIP despite having to take ill-health retirement when I was 43.  It is difficult (impossible?) to claim PIP for "just" diabetes. Although, as Copepod said, it may, but only possibly, be possible for complications, anxiety and depression  I hope you don't mind me asking but what are you and your diabetes team doing to help you get a better balance with your diabetes which should, in turn, help with the problems associated with your hypos and high levels.  Have you been taught carbohydrate testing?


----------



## Northerner (Jul 27, 2016)

SarahWilliams82 said:


> I am a staff nurse working 30 hours a week currently... I am not entitled to esa or tax credits as I earn too much money and/or work too many hours... the financial stress is adding to my depression and ability to cope with my diabetes due to depression and anxiety...
> 
> My complication's include intermittent numbness in hands and feet... no warning hypos or inability to stay awake and focus on anything when really high... my remaining beta cells dramatically fallen with great speed in two years and have next to no pancreatic function now.


Hi Sarah, welcome to the forum  Sorry to hear you are experiencing problems  I agree with AJ Lang - tackling the problems you are experiencing with your diabetes control will probably be a big help. Fluctuating blood sugar levels can have quite a significant effect on mood, and the numbness you report is most likely a transient form of neuropathy, which can also be much improved with improved blood sugar control.

What insulin regime are you on? Have you attended a diabetes education course, such as DAFNE? There are lots of very knowledgeable and experienced people here who may be able to help you get better control so at least that is one less thing to be concerned about  Please ask any questions you may have and we will do our best to help!


----------



## Copepod (Jul 27, 2016)

Thanks for explaining. I agree with AJLang and Northerner that getting better support and education to treat your diabetes AND depression / anxiety is vital. Ask your diabetes team (if you have one) and your GP about local courses etc.
There's no harm in making an application for PIP. but if your problems are only when your blood glucose levels are high, that won't qualify as it's not more than 50% of days - and if it is, you really need to sort that problem as high levels most of the time WILL cause complications. It's always best to get help when filling in an application form for any benefit, and many agencies eg CAB, council welfare rights units etc can also help with advice about managing debts etc. You mention financial stress, but perhaps not debt related? Anyway, hope you can use some of the hours you are not working to get support - there's lots available. I've heard good things about Christians Against Poverty https://capuk.org/ for helping people to escape from debt and deal with poverty, so would be worth exploring options in your area.


----------



## mikeyB (Jul 27, 2016)

I am on PIP, but only the lower rate mobility award, because of motor neuropathy that the neurologists have said is probably diabetic. It is not a life changing amount of money. Even though I can only get around the house with a stick for support, have a chairlift and adapted bathroom, I do not remotely score enough for the full PIP award. 

You will not be able to get PIP for diabetes for the reasons you gave in your first post. It is a variable controllable condition, so having diabetes doesn't score any points in the PIP assessment unless you need assistance in taking your medication.  In truth, it isn't worth making the application, but following the advice given by Copepod and Northerner could certainly improve your condition.

Best of luck, and keep in touch.


----------



## Caroline (Jul 27, 2016)

If you don't ask you don't get. I don't know of many type 2s who have claimed and got a PIP unless there has been another reason that makes the eligible for it.


----------



## mikeyB (Jul 27, 2016)

Exactly, Caroline. In fact, type 2s are more likely to get PIP because somtimes the diagnosis is made late, by which time the consequences of untamed diabetes are evident. But surely in both types the object of treatment is to prevent the complications that might qualify for PIP.


----------



## pav (Jul 27, 2016)

I looked through the pips help with their questions web site (wish I kept the link), for other problems not associated with diabetes and some that can be linked with diabetes, as it was suggested that by some I should look into it. I found it was impossible to answer the questions in a way to say I might be entitled to PIPs, yet others who appear from the outside to be a lot better than myself get it.

If you have any queries the CAB maybe of some help to you in going through / filling in the forms.


----------



## trophywench (Jul 27, 2016)

I think knowing what answers they are looking for (to grant it) seems to be 99.99% of the battle with these things.  Not what you say - but how you say it.


----------



## mikeyB (Jul 28, 2016)

This is a recurrent discussion on the pancreatitis forum. I don't doubt it is a discussion on the Crohn's disease forum, or indeed any chronic debilitating disease forum. The reason is that all these groups find the same problem- the questions on the application form do not appear to be relevant to their condition, so their answers don't allow "points" to be scored to get the allowance. It is a masterpiece of design - at first glance, it appears comprehensive, but it isn't. It is designed to limit the awards made, though the DWP would deny this. This is why you can never answer the questions the way you want to. The questions just aren't there.

This becomes evident in the high success rate of appeals. This is a sure sign that the primary assessment is intrinsically inaccurate, and the government recognise this. They blame the assessing doctors, but the primary problem is that damned form.


----------



## Mark Parrott (Jul 28, 2016)

There are some charities that can sort out the whole application for you. Usually you have to pay about £18 to cover their expenses but if you have a decent case, they have a very high success rate. My wife will ne applying for PIP for her Fibro & PSA & will be using one of these charities to do it.


----------



## Copepod (Jul 28, 2016)

Mark Parrott said:


> There are some charities that can sort out the whole application for you. Usually you have to pay about £18 to cover their expenses but if you have a decent case, they have a very high success rate. My wife will ne applying for PIP for her Fibro & PSA & will be using one of these charities to do it.


No need to pay anyone to help with application. Many people can do their own application, with help such as Citizens Advice online guide to filling in PIP form: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/b...rs/pip/help-with-your-pip-claim/fill-in-form/ I haven't heard of any registered charity which charges for help, although of course, most would welcome a donation for expenses. Are you sure you are using a charity, not a commercial company?


----------



## mikeyB (Jul 28, 2016)

You just beat me to it with that post, Copepod. After the application comes the medical assessment (if they haven't dismissed your claim out of hand) which brings all sorts of other problems....


----------



## Amigo (Jul 28, 2016)

Qualification to meet the PIP criteria is really quite brutal now and fuelled by the need to bring down the disability budget. Unfortunately too many genuinely deserving people slip through the net. I have immense sympathy and understanding for your situation Sarah and hope you can get your levels under control and improve your health very soon. Whilst people who are still working can qualify for the care component of PIP, I have to confess to wondering how people who provide these services and help to others in the course of their work could qualify by contending that they struggle to do them for themselves.


'You may get the daily living component of PIP if you need help with things like:'


preparing or eating food


washing, bathing and using the toilet


dressing and undressing


reading and communicating


managing your medicines or treatments


making decisions about money


engaging with other people


I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but I can't help but think that's how the DWP might view this.


----------



## Mark Parrott (Jul 28, 2016)

Mark Parrott said:


> There are some charities that can sort out the whole application for you. Usually you have to pay about £18 to cover their expenses but if you have a decent case, they have a very high success rate. My wife will ne applying for PIP for her Fibro & PSA & will be using one of these charities to do it.


I forget what the


Copepod said:


> No need to pay anyone to help with application. Many people can do their own application, with help such as Citizens Advice online guide to filling in PIP form: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/b...rs/pip/help-with-your-pip-claim/fill-in-form/ I haven't heard of any registered charity which charges for help, although of course, most would welcome a donation for expenses. Are you sure you are using a charity, not a commercial company?


They are called fightback4justice. You can find them on Facebook.


----------



## Copepod (Jul 28, 2016)

Citizens Advice also offer helpful information about attending PIP assessment here: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/b...pip/help-with-your-pip-claim/your-assessment/


----------



## Amigo (Jul 28, 2016)

Fightback4justice appear to be a non profit making social action group - their claims to have 95% success are astounding (and somewhat hard to believe unless they're talking about appeals)

http://www.fightback4justice.co.uk/network-page-3


----------



## Copepod (Jul 28, 2016)

Mark Parrott said:


> I forget what the
> 
> They are called fightback4justice. You can find them on Facebook.


http://www.fightback4justice.co.uk/  A URL that ends .co.uk is usually a company, rarely a charity. They describe themselves as "Non Profit Community Interest Group". Nowhere can I find a Registered Charity number on their website. I'm not disputing that they offer valuble support to people claiming benefits, but I am challenging the statement that they are a charity. Many local councils have welfare rights units which can help any residents. Housing associations usually have welfare rights specialists who can help tenants. Charities such as Citizens Advice also offer advice. None of these agencies charge for their advice.


----------



## Copepod (Jul 28, 2016)

Amigo said:


> Fightback4justice appear to be a non profit making social action group - their claims to have 95% success are astounding (and somewhat hard to believe unless they're talking about appeals)
> 
> http://www.fightback4justice.co.uk/network-page-3


You're right, 95% success rate is astounding - I'd use the word incredible, as in unbelievable. For DLA / PIP, it's higher than 50% for people attending their own appeals in person (oral appeals), and slightly lower for appeals heard on papers. Levels fluctuate from year to year and between regions, but success rates are always higher for oral than paper appeals.


----------



## mikeyB (Jul 29, 2016)

Amigo is right, the qualification to get PIP is stricter than the old DLA system, and many prople have lost out in the switch, particularly with regard to the mobility component. The government would say that the money goes to those who are genuinely disabled and unable to work, and if you look at the broad parameters in daily living that Amigo has listed you can see how disabled you have to be. If you don't have difficulties under any of the points listed, then you won't get PIP no matter who fills in the form.

If you can walk more than 50 metres, with or without aids, then you won't get the mobility component. Only if you can walk less than 20m will you get the full mobility award that opens the way to get a motability car.

Is this fair or reasonable? I really don't know. PIP fulfils it's intent, for sure, so it really depends on what you think of that intent.


----------



## Northerner (Jul 29, 2016)

mikeyB said:


> The government would say that the money goes to those who are genuinely disabled and unable to work


I've always hated this justification, that they are 'targeting those in most need', implying that people who do not fulfil the strictest standards do not need help  Deliberately tightening the rules in order to exclude those who would once have qualified (and may still do, on appeal) in order to save peanuts, whilst at the same time proposing unlimited spending on something that has no use is immoral (yes, I mean Trident)


----------



## Amigo (Jul 29, 2016)

Mikey is right but remember the mobility component is still available to those who can satisfy the very strict criteria (12 points) in terms of being totally unable to go out unaided and in many ways this is more applicable to the severely mentally impaired and learning disabled than those with physical difficulties. People with debilitating mental health/emotional/psychiatric problem will have the devil's own job proving this one. A friend of mine has just been turned down at appeal for her brain damaged daughter on the mobility element even though her daughter can walk but won't/can't get on a bus. As a result she's lost her motability car which is iniquitous in my opinion. It would cost the country thousands to provide the care she provides for £60 a week! So I totally appreciate your point northerner. Screwed priorities!


----------



## mikeyB (Jul 29, 2016)

There is the lower rate mobility payment, which is paid if you cannot walk more than 50 metres, or if you need help in finding your way around unaided,or would easily become lost. Amigo, it sounds like your friend's daughter, falls into this category, which does not entitle you a motability car.

As the decision has been upheld at appeal, it is probably appropriate within the regulations. The appeal board cannot change the rules, they can only decide on whether the rules have been wrongly applied, and quite often do overturn decisions. 

The whole system is morally wrong, but then a government that can order weapons of mass destruction like Trident is morally bankrupt anyway.


----------



## mikeyB (Jul 31, 2016)

Here in Scotland we have a government which is more caring - at least that's what they say. About 15% of the social security budget is being devolved to be under the control of the government (the majority of the budget is pensions). There is a public consultation on how this money should be spent, and anybody can contribute with comments on PIP, or any other benefit- though they are minded to abandon the word "benefit". Whether they will take on board any comments, I don't know, but if every single person who has lost their motability car chips in, they might pay attention. 

Interesting times ahead...maybe.


----------



## Alba37 (Aug 2, 2016)

Amigo said:


> Fightback4justice appear to be a non profit making social action group - their claims to have 95% success are astounding (and somewhat hard to believe unless they're talking about appeals)
> 
> http://www.fightback4justice.co.uk/network-page-3



Fightback charge and can be very expensive.  You should never have to pay for help to fill in the form or representation. 

I know many people with Type 1 that get PIP.  A lot depends on who's desk it lands on.  The best thing to do is get help filling in the form, expect to have to do a Mandatory Reconsideration and Tribunal, as many do now, but I've not heard of anyone to be turned down at the Tribunal stage. Just ensure you have representation.  You have nothing to lose by trying Sarah.


----------



## Matilda Williamson (Nov 2, 2016)

Hey I'm a type one diabetic, diagnosed just over a year ago and boy it's tough! I was originally on DLA and really appreciated it as just being alive these days comes with a massive price tag. Despite being eligible for DLA in the transition to pips I was let go, but the reasons were incredibly uninformed claiming that type one diabetes didn't have the effects we all know it does. After  making two claims and getting identical replies i gave up and started looking for a job, I am currently working as a waitress. 
Sadly recently I have had two fits from hypos despite treating them. The second fit happened at work, where I then hit my head and lost consciousness, then for the best few days suffered a concussion. I have now been informed by my boss that if this happens again I will loose my job!
Should I reply for pips? Is there any point concidering my recent fits?


----------



## Copepod (Nov 2, 2016)

Welcome to the forum, Matilda.
People with type 1 diabetes very rarely qualify for PIP, unless they have other health problems of complications.
It's very worrying that you have suffered two hypos resulting in fits, so I'd concentrate on getting blood glucose levels under control. How much contact do you have with diabetes specialist nurses or other professionals? Have you discussed your hypo fits with them?


----------



## Owen (Nov 2, 2016)

Matilda Williamson said:


> Hey I'm a type one diabetic, diagnosed just over a year ago and boy it's tough! I was originally on DLA and really appreciated it as just being alive these days comes with a massive price tag. Despite being eligible for DLA in the transition to pips I was let go, but the reasons were incredibly uninformed claiming that type one diabetes didn't have the effects we all know it does. After  making two claims and getting identical replies i gave up and started looking for a job, I am currently working as a waitress.
> Sadly recently I have had two fits from hypos despite treating them. The second fit happened at work, where I then hit my head and lost consciousness, then for the best few days suffered a concussion. I have now been informed by my boss that if this happens again I will loose my job!
> Should I reply for pips? Is there any point concidering my recent fits?


Talk to CAB, there was something somewhere about two fits, just can't remember where.


----------



## AlisonM (Nov 2, 2016)

I have PIP but it has little to do with my diabetes and more to do with increasing physical limitations caused by two kinds of arthritis and ME. Unless you have significant ongoing health issues, which you appear to do, there's little chance. Given your problems though, it would be worth talking to CAB about it. They have a great deal of experience dealing with these things and will be better able to tell you what your chances are.


----------



## Pumper_Sue (Nov 2, 2016)

Owen said:


> Talk to CAB, there was something somewhere about two fits, just can't remember where.


It's probably the association with the loss of your driving licence if you hold one.


----------



## Owen (Nov 2, 2016)

Pumper_Sue said:


> It's probably the association with the loss of your driving licence if you hold one.


I think it might be, I suppose the question is the impact on care and mobility. Certainly where I live, if you can't drive, you can't work.


----------



## mikeyB (Nov 2, 2016)

Matilda, I've had two fits resulting from hypos in my working career, and just carried on working. This was in an office job in the civil service, and they could no more sack me than fly because of the disability at work legislation. That legislation, incidentally, does include diabetes as a disability. However, working as a waitress, the health and safety rules trump that legislation.

Having two fits due to hypoglycaemia would no more get you PIP than diabetes alone. I know one epileptic person who had a full career, and has just retired.

Having a single daytime fit will cause you to lose your driving licence for a year, if reported to the DVLA. If you don't report it, you are driving illegally.

And Owen, if you lose your driving licence for any reason, you can't claim PIP mobility however difficult it is to work or do the shopping  just because you don't have a car or live out in the country. It's not a consideration that comes into the assessment for mobility.

Finally, you will never get PIP unless you can  demonstrate that you need help dressing, preparing food, taking your medicine, mixing with other people and difficulty in communication. As you are working as a waitress, you simply won't qualify for PIP, because by the lights of the current government you don't remotely qualify. In any event, taking a job because your DLA stopped fatally undermines the claim for PIP.

Your ambition should be living a productive life with well controlled diabetes, not directing your energies to claiming PIP. That may sound harsh, but it's not meant to be. But that does drive the thinking of the DVLA.


----------



## Owen (Nov 3, 2016)

Not suggesting for one moment that lack of driving would constitute a claim, just an observation.
I think the criteria now requires all limbs to be amputated and bring unable to see, read, write or hear. Plus if you can complete the claim form then you are able to live without it.


----------

