# GOVERNMENT LETTER RE VULNERABILITY (COVID19)



## Lammas (Mar 30, 2020)

I have been expecting a letter defining my vulnerable status as a 65 year old diabetic qualifying for the flu jab.  This was given as the criteria for being classified as such on the Gov.UK website on March 23.  I haven't received a letter telling me how to proceed so I contacted my GP today to be told the advice changed on March 24, ie. 24 hours later.  The flu jab no longer classifies me as being in a serious enough category though chronic respiratory disease and cancer does.  On the World Ometer website diabetes is given as the 2nd highest risk category ABOVE chronic resp disease and cancers.  I'm confused.  Can anyone explain why the 2nd highest risk group has been down graded for the purposes of government vulnerable person classification.


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## Amigo (Mar 30, 2020)

Lammas said:


> I have been expecting a letter defining my vulnerable status as a 65 year old diabetic qualifying for the flu jab.  This was given as the criteria for being classified as such on the Gov.UK website on March 23.  I haven't received a letter telling me how to proceed so I contacted my GP today to be told the advice changed on March 24, ie. 24 hours later.  The flu jab no longer classifies me as being in a serious enough category though chronic respiratory disease and cancer does.  On the World Ometer website diabetes is given as the 2nd highest risk category ABOVE chronic resp disease and cancers.  I'm confused.  Can anyone explain why the 2nd highest risk group has been down graded for the purposes of government vulnerable person classification.



These are the very high risk categories included in the 12 week ‘shielding list’ and diabetes alone as a medical condition is not included. Many of the categories have severely compromised immune systems meaning they would be unlikely to mount an adequate response to the Covid19 virus. That and severely impaired respiratory systems meaning the lungs would be unable to cope. Frankly I’ve no idea why diabetes could be seen to qualify as a higher risk for Coronavirus than these groups. Remember, it’s ‘some cancers’ not all and very significant respiratory conditions which could prove life threatening by a viral infiltration of the lungs. Whilst I’m sadly included in this vulnerable group for other reasons, I’d not expect my diabetes to qualify me.

You still need to distance and stay safe however. Best wishes.


1. Solid organ transplant recipients

2. People with specific cancers

• People with cancer who are undergoing active chemotherapy or radical radiotherapy for lung cancer

• People with cancers of the blood or bone marrow such as leukaemia, lymphoma or myeloma who are at any stage of treatment

• People having immunotherapy or other continuing antibody treatments for cancer

• People having other targeted cancer treatments which can affect the immune system, such as protein kinase inhibitors or PARP inhibitors.

• People who have had bone marrow or stem cell transplants in the last 6 months, or who are still taking immunosuppression drugs.

3. People with severe respiratory conditions including all cystic fibrosis, severe asthma and severe COPD

4. People with rare diseases and inborn errors of metabolism that significantly increase the risk of infections (such as SCID, homozygous sickle cell disease)

5. People on immunosuppression therapies sufficient to significantly increase risk of infection

6. People who are pregnant with significant heart disease, congenital or acquired’

Source: NHS England


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## NotWorriedAtAll (Mar 30, 2020)

For some reason the government is not following WHO guidelines on who to categorise as high risk.
Maybe because they are more bothered about who will not be able to fight off the disease rather than who will get it severely.

According to the WHO website (World Health Organisation) people most likely to get a severe version of the disease are as follows:

"While we are still learning about how COVID-2019 affects people, older persons and persons with pre-existing medical conditions (such as high blood pressure, heart disease, lung disease, cancer or diabetes) appear to develop serious illness more often than others."

So while the government may not classify people with high blood pressure, heart disease and/or diabetes as high risk personally I do and personally I will be following guidelines and going above and beyond to protect myself and loved ones.  But I think we will be needing to take care of ourselves and each other because there don't seem to be any special help or precautions for us.








						Coronavirus disease (COVID-19)
					

Latest update 13 May 2021 -  WHO is continuously monitoring and responding to this pandemic. This Q&A will be updated as more is known about COVID-19, how it spreads and how it is affecting people worldwide. For more information, regularly check the WHO coronavirus pages...




					www.who.int


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## Amigo (Mar 30, 2020)

NotWorriedAtAll said:


> For some reason the government is not following WHO guidelines on who to categorise as high risk.
> Maybe because they are more bothered about who will not be able to fight off the disease rather than who will get it severely.
> 
> According to the WHO website (World Health Organisation) people most likely to get a severe version of the disease are as follows:
> ...



I think that’s the right attitude because we don’t need a Govt letter to exercise good sense in protecting ourselves. The letter confers no special privileges and hasn’t helped me to get priority shopping deliveries. It just reminds me they should I get this wretched virus, I’m at mega increased risk of being hospitalised. At the end of the day, the NHS coding used looked at hospital admission episodes as one of the criteria for inclusion because they are keenly trying to protect NHS resources too.
I think the list has been sensibly selected but it doesn’t mean people with a myriad of different health conditions like diabetes shouldn’t take much more care. There‘s no doubt in my mind that the vulnerable list are viewed as the patients most likely to end up in ICU and frankly I wish I only had diabetes.


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## NotWorriedAtAll (Mar 30, 2020)

Amigo said:


> I think that’s the right attitude because we don’t need a Govt letter to exercise good sense in protecting ourselves. The letter confers no special privileges and hasn’t helped me to get priority shopping deliveries. It just reminds me they should I get this wretched virus, I’m at mega increased risk of being hospitalised. At the end of the day, the NHS coding used looked at hospital admission episodes as one of the criteria for inclusion because they are keenly trying to protect NHS resources too.
> I think the list has been sensibly selected but it doesn’t mean people with a myriad of different health conditions like diabetes shouldn’t take much more care. There‘s no doubt in my mind that the vulnerable list are viewed as the patients most likely to end up in ICU and frankly I wish I only had diabetes.


I think some people need the government letter because without it their employers won't allow them to stop working when they really ought to be self-isolating.  There are employers making employees with chronic conditions come into work and if they had this letter they could stay home without losing their jobs.


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## Amigo (Mar 30, 2020)

NotWorriedAtAll said:


> I think some people need the government letter because without it their employers won't allow them to stop working when they really ought to be self-isolating.  There are employers making employees with chronic conditions come into work and if they had this letter they could stay home without losing their jobs.




Yes I fully understand that issue NotWorried but clearly diabetes as a condition hasn’t been viewed as a clinical indicator to warrant isolation and therefore time away from work. 
The notification is in a mess anyway and many people on the qualifying list are still trying to obtain letters.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Mar 30, 2020)

Sorry you have been victim to the confusing coverage recently. 

Ive been following the announcements closely, and there has certainly been some confusion and differences between media/journalist comments (and sometimes even the press briefings themselves), and the written details on the .gov website, which has remained very consistent throughout:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...protecting-older-people-and-vulnerable-adults 

We have had many members arriving here very confused by who is and isn’t on the 1.5 million ‘12 week self isolation’ ‘highly vulnerable’ list. People with diabetes were never on that list, but some news items have suggested that people with diabetes (all 4.8million) were  included.

Some people in the 1.5 million list who have been notified by text/letter will have diabetes, but they will also have other complication factors.


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## trophywench (Mar 31, 2020)

My OH is one of the 1.5m, he has COPD resulting in loss of 50% of normal lung capacity - on a GOOD day.
We do normally like to socialise but as a result of being indoors in inclement weather with 8 or 10 friends usually gets a bad chest infection a few days later requiring both heavy duty ABs and steroids to shift.

We're not in the first flush of youth and 'this lot' is truly scary for both of us, because of his health.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, he rang his cousin today to see how they are - she's about 76 I think, her husband has Alzheimer's and she is his carer.  She has just been diagnosed with myeloma but they aren't prescribing anything to try and treat it because anything they could would interfere with her immune system and the NHS regard that as more life threatening to her at the mo than the myeloma.  Gulp.


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## grovesy (Mar 31, 2020)

trophywench said:


> My OH is one of the 1.5m, he has COPD resulting in loss of 50% of normal lung capacity - on a GOOD day.
> We do normally like to socialise but as a result of being indoors in inclement weather with 8 or 10 friends usually gets a bad chest infection a few days later requiring both heavy duty ABs and steroids to shift.
> 
> We're not in the first flush of youth and 'this lot' is truly scary for both of us, because of his health.
> ...


I know someone who was diagnosed with myeloma  a few years ago and the type she had was offered monitoring, or Radiotherapy she opted for Radiotherapy.


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## NotWorriedAtAll (Apr 3, 2020)

My mum had a letter yesterday from her GP.
She quarantined it and opened it today and then rang me.
Basically it was a 'please fill this form in so we can let you die if you get ill' letter!!!

Luckily she has a dark sense of humour so she was laughing about it rather than upset. We are going to collect it from her when we drop her food down next and then my husband and I will have a good look at it and we'll all decide how to fill it in for her - luckily we have lasting power of attorney that we sorted out years ago - so we can fill these things in for her and make sure she doesn't get too stressed about things.

But it is grim and has confirmed me in my resolution to stay away from people and keep them away from her as well. Luckily I inherited my hermit instincts from her so I know she won't be mixing with anyone and she is quite enjoying her solitude.  We talk every day on the phone.


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## SB2015 (Apr 3, 2020)

NotWorriedAtAll said:


> My mum had a letter yesterday from her GP.
> She quarantined it and opened it today and then rang me.
> Basically it was a 'please fill this form in so we can let you die if you get ill' letter!!!
> 
> ...


It must be a shock to get such a letter, however I am pleased that your mum has a sense of humour, and good that you have already sorted LPAs with her.  That reminds me we have printed off the forms but still not got round to doing them.


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## zoombapup (Apr 5, 2020)

NotWorriedAtAll said:


> But it is grim and has confirmed me in my resolution to stay away from people and keep them away from her as well. Luckily I inherited my hermit instincts from her so I know she won't be mixing with anyone and she is quite enjoying her solitude.  We talk every day on the phone.



Good to hear NotWorriedAtAll, my mum has a hard time without talking to others, luckily she's been practicing using the phone for hours every day to compensate. I do call her every day to check, but I guess it's harder for people who aren't happy with their own company.

Getting a letter like that must be very upsetting though. A stark reminder of the reality we're in right now. But we know what we have to do to stay alive and it really just involves keeping the door shut. I wish everyone could bring themselves to do it.

Best of luck with yours and her quarantine!


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## everydayupsanddowns (Apr 5, 2020)

Yes I’ve heard that a lot of ‘encouragement to sign DNR letters’ have been circulated @NotWorriedAtAll . I understand them to an extent, but it’s a pretty horrific state of affairs to have these sent out wholesale 

I believe many young people with disabilities have also received them, alongside older people. I‘d imagine they would have significant MH implications for how you feel valued by society as a person.


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## Davein (Apr 5, 2020)

Amigo said:


> These are the very high risk categories included in the 12 week ‘shielding list’ and diabetes alone as a medical condition is not included. Many of the categories have severely compromised immune systems meaning they would be unlikely to mount an adequate response to the Covid19 virus. That and severely impaired respiratory systems meaning the lungs would be unable to cope. Frankly I’ve no idea why diabetes could be seen to qualify as a higher risk for Coronavirus than these groups. Remember, it’s ‘some cancers’ not all and very significant respiratory conditions which could prove life threatening by a viral infiltration of the lungs. Whilst I’m sadly included in this vulnerable group for other reasons, I’d not expect my diabetes to qualify me.
> 
> You still need to distance and stay safe however. Best wishes.
> 
> ...



I applied for my partner (live chemo- lung cancer) and she received gov text saying they were checking with NHS.
 But apart from food deliveries, which we don't need at the moment, what other 'benefits' of being on this list?
 Does anyone know?


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## megga (Apr 5, 2020)

I've received my letter, and it isn't no fun, my wife works still, so for 12 weeks you cant go out, not even for exercise, cant share any hugs, cuddles or that peck on the lips that me and my wife share every day, sleeping in separate rooms. From someone who works full time and socialiser's, its a very lonely place to be at the moment, and to be told you're "Extremely vulnerable" doesn't do much for your self esteem. I'm one of the lucky ones as I have a garden. So if you don't get the letter, by all means be extremely cautious, but you can go for that walk for exercise, you can still share your life with your loved ones.


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## Amigo (Apr 5, 2020)

Davein said:


> I applied for my partner (live chemo- lung cancer) and she received gov text saying they were checking with NHS.
> But apart from food deliveries, which we don't need at the moment, what other 'benefits' of being on this list?
> Does anyone know?



It doesn’t confer any other privileges apart from getting priority slots for supermarket deliveries but you still need to compete for the slots with everyone else and I haven’t managed to find one free for the Asda for weeks!
It’s more about exercising individual good sense than relying on prompts from Govt texts and clearly your partner is at additional risk like me (I’m also having cancer treatment). Stay safe! Amigo

Incidentally, my GP has written on my Care Plan, ‘must be resuscitated in event of collapse’.


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## NotWorriedAtAll (Apr 5, 2020)

Benny G said:


> Do not resuscitate (DNR) letters.
> 
> I don't know how many people currently hold a DNR letter. Last year, my uncle had to carry his DNR on his person so that medical staff could read it and follow its instructions.
> If a person does not have the DNR letter with them when medical staff arrive, they will not take your word for it, and treat you anyway.
> ...


Sorry to hear about your Uncle Benny G.

If it was just a DNR letter I'd feel more relaxed about it as she already has made her views clear on that.
But this goes much further than that.
It is a 'give us permission not to hospitalise you at all' letter.
I haven't seen it yet but the bit she read out to me basically said this is like a death plan.
So you tell them if you want to go into hospital or not if you need hospital treatment.
It couches in terms of preferring to stay in the comfort of your own home and as everydayupsanddowns said I can sort of see where they are coming from but it is very scary.
I suppose it is like asking a workforce for people to volunteer for early retirement but instead it's asking people to volunteer for not being treated.  I'm glad she has us to talk it through with so we can make sure she genuinely understands all the implications and makes an informed choice that truly fits with her wishes.


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## Davein (Apr 5, 2020)

Amigo said:


> It doesn’t confer any other privileges apart from getting priority slots for supermarket deliveries but you still need to compete for the slots with everyone else and I haven’t managed to find one free for the Asda for weeks!
> It’s more about exercising individual good sense than relying on prompts from Govt texts and clearly your partner is at additional risk like me (I’m also having cancer treatment). Stay safe! Amigo
> 
> Incidentally, my GP has written on my Care Plan, ‘must be resuscitated in event of collapse’.


Thanks Amigo. I won't be disappointed then.
We will be breaking the 12 week isolation by having to go for a vital blood test prior to second chemo cycle. Blood test is at local surgery who are being obstructive. The pharmacy, although run independently is adjoined to the surgery. Social media pictures posted a couple of days ago showed the queues snaking past the surgery doors so just praying we don't have to cross through them. At least hospital cancer unit is still operating at the moment but this virus obviously trumps nearly everything else.


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## grovesy (Apr 5, 2020)

Davein said:


> Thanks Amigo. I won't be disappointed then.
> We will be breaking the 12 week isolation by having to go for a vital blood test prior to second chemo cycle. Blood test is at local surgery who are being obstructive. The pharmacy, although run independently is adjoined to the surgery. Social media pictures posted a couple of days ago showed the queues snaking past the surgery doors so just praying we don't have to cross through them. At least hospital cancer unit is still operating at the moment but this virus obviously trumps nearly everything else.


Have you checked on your local councils website around here they have launched a Welfare Service, they offering help with lots of things. They have been live over week. It is worth a look .


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## grovesy (Apr 5, 2020)

Davein said:


> Thanks Amigo. I won't be disappointed then.
> We will be breaking the 12 week isolation by having to go for a vital blood test prior to second chemo cycle. Blood test is at local surgery who are being obstructive. The pharmacy, although run independently is adjoined to the surgery. Social media pictures posted a couple of days ago showed the queues snaking past the surgery doors so just praying we don't have to cross through them. At least hospital cancer unit is still operating at the moment but this virus obviously trumps nearly everything else.


Have you thought your surgery may not be getting specimens collected?


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## Davein (Apr 5, 2020)

grovesy said:


> Have you checked on your local councils website around here they have launched a Welfare Service, they offering help with lots of things. They have been live over week. It is worth a look .


I will check now to see if there's any help available. I know there is a separate volunteer charity in Cornwall that may be able to help. Thanks grovesy.


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## Davein (Apr 5, 2020)

grovesy said:


> Have you thought your surgery may not be getting specimens collected?


We contacted them in advance and they would not commit to any arrangement or appointment. It is as if we are asking them to perform major surgery the obstacles they're putting our way. They would not even say if they were carrying out blood tests. At least if it was a definite no, we would obviously travel to the county hospital but that would just be added pressure for that hospital besides the risk of us travelling to the site where there is confirmed coronavirus. It will be nerve-racking enough going for the chemo but we can access the centre from the rear of the hospital and everyone wears full PPE so risk is minimised.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Apr 5, 2020)

That’s really chilling @NotWorriedAtAll 

And sorry for your loss @Benny G


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## grovesy (Apr 5, 2020)

Davein said:


> We contacted them in advance and they would not commit to any arrangement or appointment. It is as if we are asking them to perform major surgery the obstacles they're putting our way. They would not even say if they were carrying out blood tests. At least if it was a definite no, we would obviously travel to the county hospital but that would just be added pressure for that hospital besides the risk of us travelling to the site where there is confirmed coronavirus. It will be nerve-racking enough going for the chemo but we can access the centre from the rear of the hospital and everyone wears full PPE so risk is minimised.


I saw GP on This Morning, about 10 days ago, in her area they were not doing any routine bloods test at all. 
Also maybe your surgery did not want to commit as things seem to be change frequently.


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## Davein (Apr 5, 2020)

grovesy said:


> I saw GP on This Morning, about 10 days ago, in her area they were not doing any routine bloods test at all.
> Also maybe your surgery did not want to commit as things seem to be change frequently.


This is not a routine test but in any case I wish they would commit to giving a yes or no, at least then we could try in advance to make alternative arrangements especially as the journey to the hospital is an eighty mile round trip.


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## Davein (Apr 6, 2020)

Amigo said:


> It doesn’t confer any other privileges apart from getting priority slots for supermarket deliveries but you still need to compete for the slots with everyone else and I haven’t managed to find one free for the Asda for weeks!
> It’s more about exercising individual good sense than relying on prompts from Govt texts and clearly your partner is at additional risk like me (I’m also having cancer treatment). Stay safe! Amigo
> 
> Incidentally, my GP has written on my Care Plan, ‘must be resuscitated in event of collapse’.



Regarding ASDA. I received an email from Asda stating they have introduced a Volunteer Card whereby a volunteer can shop for vulnerable persons using this card. You prepay an amount up to £150 so no need to entrust your Debit/Credit card to others (not that you should be but many do) Perhaps this would be a way of getting your groceries Amigo.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Apr 6, 2020)

Amigo said:


> It doesn’t confer any other privileges apart from getting priority slots for supermarket deliveries but you still need to compete for the slots with everyone else and I haven’t managed to find one free for the Asda for weeks!



Sorry to hear you are having such a tough time accessing delivery slots. After reading @mikeyB’s accounts I wince slightly whenever I hear of a healthy friend or family member opting for delivery and being pleased they’ve managed to get a slot, and make sure I comment about the needs of the most vulnerable at the moment.


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## Davein (Apr 18, 2020)

We received the government 12 week letter  on Thursday and an email from ASDA the next day giving priory delivery slot. Earliest one is for Friday 1st May so have booked that up with repeat deliveries every three weeks, so another worry hopefully resolved.


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## Grannylorraine (Apr 19, 2020)

Davein said:


> We received the government 12 week letter  on Thursday and an email from ASDA the next day giving priory delivery slot. Earliest one is for Friday 1st May so have booked that up with repeat deliveries every three weeks, so another worry hopefully resolved.


I am pleased that you have managed to get a delivery slot now, although still a long wait. I think it is appaling that so many seemingly healthy (as none of us actually know for sure), people were booking delivery slots, and therefore stopping people who have to use them because they can't go out, either because of shielding or like my dad, he couldn't walk around a supermarket before and won't ever again, unless he lets me get him a wheelchair.  But even for him, I said see if you can get a click and collect and I will drive there, pick it up and drop off at your door.  

Luckily for my mum and dad, as we have key workers in the family, who go to the shops, they are able to get food to my parents, but not everyone is lucky enough to have family close by.


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## mikeyB (Apr 19, 2020)

I’ve got a delivery slot for the coming Friday. That’s from Tesco. Slots are appearing because Tesco limit you to three of anything. And also limit you to 80 items in total. It’s surprising how quickly that limit is reached, so you can only do a ‘big’ shop if you actually go the store. 

It’s fine by me, and it weeds out the hoarders. And Tesco can get more deliveries in a van.


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## Grannylorraine (Apr 19, 2020)

mikeyB said:


> I’ve got a delivery slot for the coming Friday. That’s from Tesco. Slots are appearing because Tesco limit you to three of anything. And also limit you to 80 items in total. It’s surprising how quickly that limit is reached, so you can only do a ‘big’ shop if you actually go the store.
> 
> It’s fine by me, and it weeds out the hoarders. And Tesco can get more deliveries in a van.


strange you mention hoarders, as my hubby works in a Tesco food distribution centre/warehouse he kept saying to me before we got to lockdown, I don't understand there isn't a shortage of anything, we are handling more stuff than we do for Christmas, he could not believe it when we then went into store and it was stripped bare.

I do agree about the 80 items per order, because as you say they can get more deliveries on their vans.  Plus as I said on another thread, I would not usually defend Tesco as I know what the rate of pay is, and how hard the staff where Steve works have to work, and that they get disciplined if they don't meet the incredibly high pick rate they have to achieve everyday, but they have taken on loads of extra staff, these staff have not had the usual amount of training, all working overtime, days off and having any leave cancelled, so whilst I totally agree that are not getting everything right all of the time, they are trying.  Another example of this is yesterday evening a message was put out on the staff what app group, asking if any of the team could work on there days off on the shop floor of the store near to the distribution centre, they need people to monitor the queue outside and stand in the store advising people to follow the arrows and maintain the appropriate distance, because the store has so many staff off either sick or self isolating because of family.  If the guys from the warehouse don't help out doing these tasks, thereby allowing all the till trained staff to operate the tills instead of monitoring the shoppers, the store won't be able to open.  So I know I have deviated a bit, but they really are doing everything they can, and need the public to play their part as well.

Anyway glad you are able to get your deliveries MikeB, and hope others who are reliant on home deliveries are starting to get the slots they need.


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## grovesy (Apr 19, 2020)

I was talking to someone yesterday, and a relative of their's who are shielding and live in a different area.  The relative  have manged to have got been allocated slots for most of the supermarkets and offered  to give them one of the slots, I said they she offer the slots for stores they don't want or need to others.


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