# Struggling and confused



## Elle321

Hi, I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes after having problems controlling high blood pressure.  For the last two weeks I've been struggling to accept it and feel overwhelmed. I saw a diabetes nurse yesterday hoping for advice on what I can/can't eat and was given a low fat diet sheet which says very little about sugar/carb regulation and says fruit juice is fine but shellfish I can only have rarely but also says I can sometimes eat cake and choc. Looking online is overwhelming me. I read so much conflicting advice that I'm now scared of eating anything  and will have to wait 3-4 months before I can get on a one day NHS diabetic course. I am on metformin which I'm gradually increasing but I have been told I don't need to check my blood sugar. How do I deal with this for 3-4 months ?


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## Annette

Take everything you have been told re diet and testing, put it in a mental box marked 'Bullsh1t', and wait for the nice people on here to give you the links/advice you actually need...


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## Pine Marten

Welcome to the forum, Elle. It can be very overwhelming and confusing to be diagnosed, as I know. I'm afraid that many surgeries still give out this outdated advice about eating starchy foods and self-testing, but you have made a good start by coming here - we have many type 2s (like me) who have found support, encouragement and invaluable advice from this forum.

The best thing you can do is to get a meter and test your blood sugar, otherwise how will you know what foods affect you? I use a Codefree meter (from Amazon or Home Health), and the test strips are around £8 for 50. By testing before and after meals you can eliminate foods that spike your blood sugar, and eat more foods that are good for you .

I'm sure Northerner will be along shortly with some helpful links and advice, and he will tell you that no question is daft, so ask anything you like!. 

Don't be scared, it can be a challenging but ultimately satisfying journey to be on, as you can end up fitter, healthier (and slimmer, if you need to lose weight) than you were before. All the best to you.


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## Typicaltwo

Don't worry. Diabetes type 2 is manageable fairly easily without any medication. I've changed my diet to LCHF, and it's been a doodle. My blood sugar is now in the low normal range, I've lost weight (I was normal weight anyway for my height) and I'm full of energy. Unfortunately there is a lot of old, outdated information/misinformation being peddled today within the NHS and by all those ill-informed dietitians and nutritionists. Just remember fat is good and carbs are bad. This charity (diabetes.org.uk) is *not* the best source for current thinking as it still gives out misinformation and ignores recent research findings... I wonder how Tesco much has a say in it's opinion?

Good luck.


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## Elle321

Thank you both so much. At the moment I'm living on non starchy veg and lean meat because I'm frightened of eating the wrong thing and I feel miserable. I feel as though I'll never be able to eat out again or go to friends for dinner. I know there are far worse things to be diagnosed with and I need to get on with it but I don't know what the hell in doing and feel as though I was given bad advice and left to get on with it.


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## Elle321

Typicaltwo said:


> Don't worry. Diabetes type 2 is manageable fairly easily without any medication. I've changed my diet to LCHF, and it's been a doodle. My blood sugar is now in the low normal range, I've lost weight (I was normal weight anyway for my height) and I'm full of energy. Unfortunately there is a lot of old, outdated information/misinformation being peddled today within the NHS and by all those ill-informed dietitians and nutritionists. Just remember fat is good and carbs are bad. This charity (diabetes.org.uk) is *not* the best source for current thinking as it still gives out misinformation and ignores recent research findings... I wonder how Tesco much has a say in it's opinion?
> 
> Good luck.


Thank you


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## Sally71

Elle321 said:


> I don't know what the hell in doing and feel as though I was given bad advice and left to get on with it.



You and loads of other newly diagnosed T2s unfortunately 

The best thing you can do is get yourself a meter and start testing.  The cheapest one is the SD Codefree.  Then test before each meal and then 1-2 hours afterwards to see how much your blood sugar has risen.  Try to avoid anything which makes it rise more than 2 mmol/l. You may find that you can tolerate small amounts of certain types of carbs, it's very hard to avoid them completely!  And everyone is different, what one person can eat without having any effect on their blood sugar, another can't touch with a barge pole so you have to find what works for you.  I'd like to say though, that eating whole fruit is way better than drinking the juice (berries are the lowest carb fruits, bananas are not good!), and I don't see why sea food should be an issue at all unless it's got a breadcrumb coating!

Have a look in the food and recipes section here too, you should find some good ideas on what foods you can substitute instead of carbs (e.g. Cauliflower mash instead of potato mash) and recipes to make your meals more interesting


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## Typicaltwo

Green veg and lean meat won't cut the mustard. You'll make yourself unwell - you'll have no energy and be very miserable. You need to replace the energy source from Carbs (sugar) to fat. I start the day with a good old-fashioned English breakfast of Bacon, black pudding (iron), fried egg (the one true super-food) a tomato (2gms of sugar) and a mushroom. This will usually see me through to the evening. Salmon, avocado, cheese, nuts, cream and all fatty meats are good. Milk is not as it contains loads of sugar.


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## Stitch147

Hi Elle321, welcome to the forum. It can be very daunting at first but you are definately not alone. This forum is a great place for help and advice. You will still be able to eat out, I do about 2-3 time most weeks and I definatley dont struggle. I am lucky that my partner is very supportive and will let me pick what we go to eat. Always look at menus on line before going to restaurants as you will get an idea of what you can and cant choose. Dont be afraid to ask questions on here as we are all on this journey together and there are some very knowledgable people on here.


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## Elle321

Stitch147 said:


> Hi Elle321, welcome to the forum. It can be very daunting at first but you are definately not alone. This forum is a great place for help and advice. You will still be able to eat out, I do about 2-3 time most weeks and I definatley dont struggle. I am lucky that my partner is very supportive and will let me pick what we go to eat. Always look at menus on line before going to restaurants as you will get an idea of what you can and cant choose. Dont be afraid to ask questions on here as we are all on this journey together and there are some very knowledgable people on here.


I just need to know what I can/can't eat first. That's the bit I'm really struggling to find out. I'm definitely going to get a meter otherwise I can't see how I'll know if I'm eating the right things.?


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## Northerner

Elle321 said:


> Hi, I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes after having problems controlling high blood pressure.  For the last two weeks I've been struggling to accept it and feel overwhelmed. I saw a diabetes nurse yesterday hoping for advice on what I can/can't eat and was given a low fat diet sheet which says very little about sugar/carb regulation and says fruit juice is fine but shellfish I can only have rarely but also says I can sometimes eat cake and choc. Looking online is overwhelming me. I read so much conflicting advice that I'm now scared of eating anything  and will have to wait 3-4 months before I can get on a one day NHS diabetic course. I am on metformin which I'm gradually increasing but I have been told I don't need to check my blood sugar. How do I deal with this for 3-4 months ?


Hi Elle321, welcome to the forum  Very sorry to hear about your diagnosis  The amount of information out there can be overwhelming, to be sure. The chief reason for all the conflicting information you will come across is that diabetes can be a very individual condition - how we react and what we can tolerate in our diets can vary considerably from individual to individual, so you need to determine what works best for you. What works well for one person may not work well for you, or it may be something you find difficult to sustain, which is essential if you are to stay on top of things.

I would suggest reading these two articles first - Jennifer's Advice and Maggie Davey's letter. They have been around for some time, but stood the test of time as wise and helpful starting points, helping you to understand your diabetes better and how to approach it. I would also recommend getting a copy of Type 2 Diabetes: The First Year by Gretchen Becker, which I think all Type 2s should be given at diagnosis! It's really positive, and takes your through learning about diabetes management step by step 

Next, I would suggest starting a food diary. Pay no attention to the outdated advice you were given, a similar thing was given to my auntie when she was diagnosed and I almost fell off my chair!  In your diary, write down what you ate, and the amount of carboydrates in the meal, including any drinks. This will help you to assess your current diet and look for areas where you might be able to make changes that will improve your diet with regard to your blood sugars.

I would then recommend that you have a look at Test,Review, Adjust by Alan S . This describes how to use the information from a blood glucose test meter to determine your own tolerances for a particular meal. If you don't have a meter and strips, the cheapest option we have come across is the 
SD Codefree Meter which has test strips at around £8 for 50. It is well worth investing in this, as it is the best (if not the only) tool that can help you determine what you tolerate well and what you don't, whilst at the same time retaining maximum flexibility in your diet, thus making it more sustainable in the long run.

Please let us know if you have any questions, we will be more than happy to help!


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## Northerner

Elle321 said:


> I just need to know what I can/can't eat first. That's the bit I'm really struggling to find out. I'm definitely going to get a meter otherwise I can't see how I'll know if I'm eating the right things.?


For starters, I would look into the GL (Glycaemic Load) diet. The GL Diet for Dummies is a very good introduction to the GL approach to selecting and combining foods so that they have a slow, steady impact on blood glucose levels.


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## grovesy

I would say you have to find what works for you and what you can maintain in the long term. 
That sometimes it is not only what you eat but the portion you eat.


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## Pine Marten

Elle321 said:


> I just need to know what I can/can't eat first. That's the bit I'm really struggling to find out. I'm definitely going to get a meter otherwise I can't see how I'll know if I'm eating the right things.?


Exactly! That's the reason we should test, and so that we can control our own condition - just say pooh to the nurse and anyone else who says don't bother  ! 

Actually I found it very interesting to discover what foods were good/bad for me...it was like a challenge. I'm not much of a cook but loads and loads of tasty, interesting, and simple recipes are online or in recipe books - I rather like the two books by Robin Ellis (the actor) who is type 2. You can use herbs, spices, white wine, almond flour, all sorts of things instead of the usual stuff.

Going out can be a bit more of a faff, but I second Stitch's advice to look at menus beforehand if you can, and then you will be prepared.


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## Stitch147

Just remember that everyone is different, what one person can eat will have a different effect on another person. Porridge is a good example of this, I can tolerate porridge and it helps bring my levels down in the morning, but it will send other people bg levels soaring.


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## Mark Parrott

Everyone is different, but the general rule of thumb is to cut back on carbs. This includes bread, potatoes, rice & pasta. Even wholemeal versions can be problematic. If you can't do without bread, there are some that may be ok such as Burgen, Lidl high protein rolls or Nimble. Rice can be made from cauliflower blitzed in a food processor, pasta can be replaced with courgetti & potatoes with lesser damaging root veg such as sweet potato or celeriac.


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## Elle321

GI monitor downloaded to my phone and meter ordered from
Amazon. Thank you all for your help. I'm feeling much more positive.


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## Northerner

Elle321 said:


> GI monitor downloaded to my phone and meter ordered from
> Amazon. Thank you all for your help. I'm feeling much more positive.


Good to hear Elle  The one good thing about diabetes is that it is something that you can learn to manage well, and hopefully the adjustments you make will result in a happier, healthier person 

What about exercise? Any regular daily exercise can work wonders - many people find that a brisk walk after eating can really help with blood sugar levels as it makes you more insulin-sensitve. Plus, of course, there are many other benefits to be gained


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## Pine Marten

Elle321 said:


> GI monitor downloaded to my phone and meter ordered from
> Amazon. Thank you all for your help. I'm feeling much more positive.


We aim to please


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## AlisonM

Welcome @Elle321, I'm firmly in the test, test, test camp as well. It's essential no matter what type you are and we all learn a great deal from it, so ignore anyone who tells you otherwise. As Northe says Alan Shanley's blog is a fantastic teaching aid for folk learning how to interpret test results. You may not get quite so much value out of an app/book called carbs and cals, but it could be of use in helping you discover just how much fat/carb/salt/sugar is in the food you eat, it's worth a look I reckon. There are a lot of very useful tools out there to help you get the hang of your diabetes, the important thing is for you to take control of your life back, anything that can help you do so has value.


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## Martin Canty

Welcome, Elle, sorry to hear that you are confused & overwhelmed... There is a lot to take in, particularly in the early stages, one thing to remember is that you are not alone. Listen to this forum; unlike the nurses & GP's we actually live this disease & therefore have real life experience of living with D daily. As to what to eat, personally I avoid all cereals, grains & starchy foods. It was mentioned in another post but don't sweat about fat, it's not the enemy the establishment thinks it is. Use good quality ingredients in your cooking & try to avoid all processed foods (particularly pre-packaged meals).

Wish you the best of luck


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## trophywench

It isn'tsimple like 'never eat a spud again as long as you live' - because you may be able to tolerate some spud.

It's important to realise that not only is every diabetic not equal - neither is every spud!  New potatoes have got less carbs than old ones. Mashed old spud hit's your blood stream like an express train - a couple of boiled new ones, in their jackets - will be less carbs for starters and hit your blood stream a lot slower too.

One slice of pineapple for example contains a hell of a lot of sugar - whereas a handful of berries (Blue, straw, rasp - whatever) is far less.  So it isn't a matter of just give up all fruit - it's what works for YOU that matters in YOUR diet.  And the only way to find that out - is - to test!


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## robert@fm

Typicaltwo said:


> I wonder how Tesco much has a say in it's opinion?



Tesco idiocy — the rest of that thread also makes sobering reading. 

Apart from the use of the wrong adjective (ready meals aren't alive hence cannot be healthy; the correct term would be "nutritious" if it were applicable), I for one don't see how a meal which contains 40g carbs (that's equivalent to 10(!) teaspoons of sugar) can be at all beneficial to health, regardless of the red herring of "low fat". Indeed, long before A**hole Ancel Keys launched the "starchy carbs good, fat bad" nonsense that precipitated today's obesity crisis, it was well-known that an excessively _lean_ diet (such as trying to live exclusively off rabbit) is very dangerous; do a web search for "rabbit starvation", it isn't pretty.

As for "no shellfish", that's a new one on me. Why are they supposed to be off the menu?


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## Martin Canty

robert@fm said:


> Tesco idiocy — the rest of that thread also makes sobering reading.
> 
> Apart from the use of the wrong adjective (ready meals aren't alive hence cannot be healthy; the correct term would be "nutritious" if it were applicable), I for one don't see how a meal which contains 40g carbs (that's equivalent to 10(!) teaspoons of sugar) can be at all beneficial to health, regardless of the red herring of "low fat". Indeed, long before A**hole Ancel Keys launched the "starchy carbs good, fat bad" nonsense that precipitated today's obesity crisis, it was well-known that an excessively _lean_ diet (such as trying to live exclusively off rabbit) is very dangerous; do a web search for "rabbit starvation", it isn't pretty.
> 
> As for "no shellfish", that's a new one on me. Why are they supposed to be off the menu?


That's why they recommend eating the rabbit brain as well.... increase that fat ratio (a little).....


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## Neety41

Stitch147 said:


> Just remember that everyone is different, what one person can eat will have a different effect on another person. Porridge is a good example of this, I can tolerate porridge and it helps bring my levels down in the morning, but it will send other people bg levels soaring.


Porridge brings my levels down too! I was surprised to see them in the 5's after a bowl with chopped banana!!


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## Northerner

Neety41 said:


> Porridge brings my levels down too! I was surprised to see them in the 5's after a bowl with chopped banana!!


This has always been one of the best examples for me, reading people's experiences here over the years, of how different we all are and why it's important to discover your tolerances so you don't unnecessarily restrict your diet by excluding things that are fine for you, and that you enjoy  Porridge really does appear to be a bit of a dividing line - I suspect it may be something to do with an individual's gut bacteria


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## Elle321

Northerner said:


> Good to hear Elle  The one good thing about diabetes is that it is something that you can learn to manage well, and hopefully the adjustments you make will result in a happier, healthier person
> 
> What about exercise? Any regular daily exercise can work wonders - many people find that a brisk walk after eating can really help with blood sugar levels as it makes you more insulin-sensitve. Plus, of course, there are many other benefits to be gained


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## Elle321

My iPod is updated and ready to go. I've started going for a brisk half hour walk daily with the plan to gradually increase activity. I've felt so exhausted with constant headaches from high blood pressure that I just wasn't able to. After changing my diet and staring metformin, my BP has dropped from 195/140 to 145/85. This is after months of meds. I can't tell you how much better I feel today after all of your positive and reassuring messages yesterday. I felt so lost. Today is another day and I feel as though I have an action plan. I can't wait to get my meter so I can find out what works for me. My BP changed in 1 week of diet change/metformin. Thank you all so much.


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## Northerner

Elle321 said:


> My iPod is updated and ready to go. I've started going for a brisk half hour walk daily with the plan to gradually increase activity. I've felt so exhausted with constant headaches from high blood pressure that I just wasn't able to. After changing my diet and staring metformin, my BP has dropped from 195/140 to 145/85. This is after months of meds. I can't tell you how much better I feel today after all of your positive and reassuring messages yesterday. I felt so lost. Today is another day and I feel as though I have an action plan. I can't wait to get my meter so I can find out what works for me. My BP changed in 1 week of diet change/metformin. Thank you all so much.


That's really excellent news Elle!  I hope you enjoy your daily walks - look, the weather just got better especially for you!  The exercise should also help with your blood pressure, so win-win


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## trophywench

Neety41 said:


> Porridge brings my levels down too! I was surprised to see them in the 5's after a bowl with chopped banana!!



... and bananas are another high carb fruit that VERY few diabetics can manage to eat without their meter going on a skyward jaunt!


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## Carol Robinson

Hi Elle321, you're in the right place for support, advice and encouragement. Everyone here, is very friendly and only too pleased to be able to help you as best they can. I would be lost without the support I get from this forum! I'm sure you'll soon be feeling a lot more at ease about how to control your diabetes,  but it is one hell of a learning curve, isn't it?!


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## Ginja Gee

Elle321 said:


> Hi, I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes after having problems controlling high blood pressure.  For the last two weeks I've been struggling to accept it and feel overwhelmed. I saw a diabetes nurse yesterday hoping for advice on what I can/can't eat and was given a low fat diet sheet which says very little about sugar/carb regulation and says fruit juice is fine but shellfish I can only have rarely but also says I can sometimes eat cake and choc. Looking online is overwhelming me. I read so much conflicting advice that I'm now scared of eating anything  and will have to wait 3-4 months before I can get on a one day NHS diabetic course. I am on metformin which I'm gradually increasing but I have been told I don't need to check my blood sugar. How do I deal with this for 3-4 months ?


Hi Elle!  Your post could have been written by me!! I am very recently diagnosed. I've been put on Metformin and Ramiprill. I'm finding it all a bit overwhelming too but this site is Fab!! They're a really friendly bunch and the information on this site has been invaluable over the past few days. I am also slowly increasing the Metformin but my readings are still quite high and I'm feeling rough but I'm hoping that my readings will begin to lower soon.


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## Elle321

I had a crash down to earth this afternoon and cried my eyes out. But I just want to feel healthy again as the last few months has been crap. Reading everyone's posts helped. This forum is awesome.


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## Northerner

Elle321 said:


> I had a crash down to earth this afternoon and cried my eyes out. But I just want to feel healthy again as the last few months has been crap. Reading everyone's posts helped. This forum is awesome.


Good to let it all out Elle, hopefully things will start getting much better for you from now on {{{HUGS}}}


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## Elle321

Well my meter arrived. I've been eating a low GI diet and I'm now up to 3 metformin tabs daily. I thought I was doing well until I took a reading now ( pre lunch) and it was 15.1. I'm really shocked. Is it usual to take a while to get it down ? And does metformin take a while to work ? I've been going for a 30 min brisk walk daily which is about as much as I can manage as still feel dreadful.


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## Robin

Elle321 said:


> Well my meter arrived. I've been eating a low GI diet and I'm now up to 3 metformin tabs daily. I thought I was doing well until I took a reading now ( pre lunch) and it was 15.1. I'm really shocked. Is it usual to take a while to get it down ? And does metformin take a while to work ? I've been going for a 30 min brisk walk daily which is about as much as I can manage as still feel dreadful.


The short answer is, yes, Metformin takes a while to build up in the system and start working, and levels,do tend to fall slowly. This is actually better for you than having a quick crash back to normal levels, as the body can adjust gradually without too much of a shock to the system.


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## Elle321

Robin said:


> The short answer is, yes, Metrofmin takes a while to build up in the system and start working, and levels,do tend to fall slowly. This is actually better for you than having a quick crash back to normal levels, as the body can adjust gradually without too much of a shock to the system.


Thank you. I got a bit panicked then.


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## Maz2

Welcome to the Forum Elle 321. I am sorry to hear about your diagnosis.

I joined last week after being told that, although I am not Type 2 or pre-diabetic, I only have about 0.1 leeway and really have to make changes.  I only found out because I had been involved in medical research and the researchers had been checking cholesterol, triglycerides and fructose levels. They did not like the latter and alerted the GP. She did an HBAc1 test and dropped the bombshell on me. I had no idea although, having been on here for a week or so, although I thought I was having a healthy diet, it turns out not so healthy as loaded with carbs.  

I felt as though I had been kicked in the stomach and felt sick for a couple of days so I can only imagine how you must feel.  I think what is scary is that so many people have no idea.  A friend of mine has been Type 2 for 10 years and he had no symptoms so no idea at all until he was diagnosed.  He had had heart problems so the GP would have checked him regularly, hence him finding out. 

I cannot consider myself an expert on any of this but I was surprised to hear that fruit juice is OK as I thought that was full of sugar.  I cannot really understand either why shellfish would be a problem.

I hope you find this Forum useful. I am finding the advice and support absolutely wonderful and it is making me feel so much better.


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## Mark Parrott

Fruit juice is full of sugar & is not OK. Shellfish, on the other hand, are fine.


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## Elle321

Maz2, I'm glad I'm not the only one feeling that way. I knew the nurse was taking utter nonsense but when I challenged her about fruit juice which I knew was a no-no, her response was 'that's good sugar' and the shellfish 'it's full of bad fat' utter nonsense. I left there not knowing what to do. No advice, no explanations just 'see you in 3 months' I'm pretty sure she wasn't trained and handed me the wrong sheet. I'm struggling with lowering the carbs. As in I'm scared to eat them now. Testing my blood sugar for the first time today and finding it was 17.1 hasn't helped. In fact, I feel guilty eating even when I'm starving hungry. I'm following a low GI diet and hoping this, the metformin and increasing exercise start to help. This forum has been a lifesaver for me and I hope you're feeling better and getting your head around it. I'm finding it all pretty hard.


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## Martin Canty

I'm somewhat amazed, does the Nurse know anything about diabetes & nutrition.... Fruit juice is full of carbs, an acceptable dose may be a thimble full but people would be more likely to drink a glass (according to the bottle of orange juice in my refrigerator a serving of 1/2 pint is 28g carbs of which 22g is sugar) whereas shellfish is not a significant source of fat..... The cholesterol levels, though, appear to be 'significant' but as we should know, dietary cholesterol is not the culprit, our livers manufacturing cholesterol from excess carbs is!!!

http://www.seafoodhealthfacts.org/s...onals/fish-and-shellfish-nutrient-composition


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## Northerner

Elle321 said:


> Maz2, I'm glad I'm not the only one feeling that way. I knew the nurse was taking utter nonsense but when I challenged her about fruit juice which I knew was a no-no, her response was 'that's good sugar' and the shellfish 'it's full of bad fat' utter nonsense. I left there not knowing what to do. No advice, no explanations just 'see you in 3 months' I'm pretty sure she wasn't trained and handed me the wrong sheet. I'm struggling with lowering the carbs. As in I'm scared to eat them now. Testing my blood sugar for the first time today and finding it was 17.1 hasn't helped. In fact, I feel guilty eating even when I'm starving hungry. I'm following a low GI diet and hoping this, the metformin and increasing exercise start to help. This forum has been a lifesaver for me and I hope you're feeling better and getting your head around it. I'm finding it all pretty hard.


You'll get there Elle  For now, just think of the numbers as information and record them. All this can take time, so don't lose heart - those changes you are making will already be starting to help, even if not immediately apparent in the numbers


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## Neety41

I can eat potatoes! They dont spike me, sugar does obvs and processed foods, i can eat grained bread and bananas, greek yogurt and berries i am fine with, i make no count weight watchers casseroles and spag bol too, i have brown pasta and have no problems with these things. Everyone is different i believe!


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## Neety41

Stitch147 said:


> Just remember that everyone is different, what one person can eat will have a different effect on another person. Porridge is a good example of this, I can tolerate porridge and it helps bring my levels down in the morning, but it will send other people bg levels soaring.


Porridge brings my levels down too! Odd isnt it


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## Neety41

Mccain jacket potatoes i can have too, am glad about that. Testing is the only way at first, u soon get to know what u cant tolerate


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## Mark Parrott

I am very jealous! Potatoes send me sky high. I have found out I can eat brown rice, which I'm happy about.


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## Elle321

Northerner said:


> You'll get there Elle  For now, just think of the numbers as information and record them. All this can take time, so don't lose heart - those changes you are making will already be starting to help, even if not immediately apparent in the numbers


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## Elle321

Well just found out I definitely can't eat multi grain bread. My blood sugar went up 7 points 2 hours after eating it compared to before.


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## Northerner

Elle321 said:


> Well just found out I definitely can't eat multi grain bread. My blood sugar went up 7 points 2 hours after eating it compared to before.


A lot of people find that they are more insulin-resistant in the mornings, so it can be best to try and avoid carbs for breakfast. As the day progresses and you become more active, your sensitivity improves and you may be better able to tolerate the bread later in the day  Many of us have found that Burgen Soya and Linseed is a good bread to try - it's lower in carbs than most other breads as some of the ordinary flour is replaced with soya flour  Also, many on here have recommended the high protein rolls from Lidl, if you have a store near you


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## Elle321

Northerner said:


> A lot of people find that they are more insulin-resistant in the mornings, so it can be best to try and avoid carbs for breakfast. As the day progresses and you become more active, your sensitivity improves and you may be better able to tolerate the bread later in the day  Many of us have found that Burgen Soya and Linseed is a good bread to try - it's lower in carbs than most other breads as some of the ordinary flour is replaced with soya flour  Also, many on here have recommended the high protein rolls from Lidl, if you have a store near you


On my shopping list to try. Thank you


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## Maz2

I like the Burgen soya too.  

I agree with Martin Canty - although I am no expert on all this I do wonder if that nurse has had any training.  I can't understand why they would tell someone with Type 2 or anyone else for that matter to drink fruit juice.  I have spent months trying to persuade my hubby to stop drinking fruit juice at breakfast to no avail.  He has no blood sugar problems as far as we are aware but why meet it halfway!  It has fallen on deaf ears so far.   I thought the nurses were there to advise people not to make things worse.

Thank goodness for this Forum. At least there is somewhere to get some sensible advice.


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## Elle321

I knew she was talking nonsense. The diet sheet is headed 'low fat diet'  I joined this forum at my lowest moment and it's been a lifesaver. I can't thank everyone enough


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## Typicaltwo

LOL. Just discovered that my links to two much more informative diabetes websites - dietdoctor(dot)com and diabetes(dot)co(dot)uk were deleted from an early post on this thread by a so-called *moderator*. Is this a euphemism for the Tesco PR department?


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## Northerner

Typicaltwo said:


> LOL. Just discovered that my links to two much more informative diabetes websites - dietdoctor(dot)com and diabetes(dot)co(dot)uk were deleted from an early post on this thread by a so-called *moderator*. Is this a euphemism for the Tesco PR department?


You're entitled to your opinion, even if it is erroneous...


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## Typicaltwo

Northerner said:


> You're entitled to your opinion, even if it is erroneous...



_*Evidence-based nutrition guidelines for the prevention and management of diabetes, May 2011, from Diabetes UK Nutritional Guidelines*

Recommendations_ 
• Weight loss is the most important predictor of risk reduction for Type 2 diabetes. Weight loss of at least 5 to 7 per cent is effective for Type 2 diabetes prevention. (A) 
• Lifestyle interventions that incorporate energy restriction, low fat diets and increased physical activity can effectively reduce the risk of Type 2 diabetes in high risk groups. (A) 
• There is no evidence for the most effective dietary approach over another to achieve weight loss and prevent Type 2 diabetes. (D) 
• Interventions promoting diet alone, increased physical activity alone or a combination of the two is equally effective in reducing risk. (A) 
• Dietary patterns characterised by low intakes of saturated fat and higher intakes of unsaturated fat are protective. (B) 
• Diets of low glycaemic index/load and higher in dietary fibre and wholegrains are protective. (B) 
• Some specific foods (low fat dairy foods, green leafy vegetables, coffee and moderate intakes of alcohol) are associated with reduced risk of Type 2 diabetes. (B) • Other foods (red meats, processed meat products and fried potatoes) are associated with increased risk of Type 2 diabetes. (B)

These recommendations, I understand, are still the current viewpoint of Diabetes UK. Sadly there's is no mention of the link between carbohydrates and diabetes (although the many recent studies make the national press they don't make this website, as far as I can tell) There are also the amazing success stories being achieved in managing or even reversing type 2 diabetes through fasting diets, the Newcastle diet or the LCHF diets that predominate across the internet but not here. 

It's great that this website offers moral support but it's a shame it provides little or none information about controlling type 2 diabetes that is burgeoning across the net.
I am not erroneous, just more widely read.


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## AlisonM

The last thing the newly diagnosed or struggling diabetic needs is more pressure, what they do need is support and ecouragement and the purpose of this forum, the reason it was created, is to 'support' it's members not lecture them. While your point about the link between carbs and diabetes is well taken, you should realise that your preferred way wouldn't work for everybody. So instead of pushing a specific methodology, we try to follow a reasoned and reasonable path to finding a working solution for each of our members without leaning on them or driving them in any one direction.


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## Northerner

Typicaltwo said:


> These recommendations, I understand, are still the current viewpoint of Diabetes UK. Sadly there's is no mention of the link between carbohydrates and diabetes (although the many recent studies make the national press they don't make this website, as far as I can tell) There are also the amazing success stories being achieved in managing or even reversing type 2 diabetes through fasting diets, the Newcastle diet or the LCHF diets that predominate across the internet but not here.
> 
> It's great that this website offers moral support but it's a shame it provides little or none information about controlling type 2 diabetes that is burgeoning across the net.
> I am not erroneous, just more widely read.


I'm obviously more widely read on this forum (and probably elsewhere), if you think that  Who says we actively promote only the DUK guidelines? I suggest you read the forum more carefully, if that is what you believe


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## Robin

Typicaltwo said:


> It's great that this website offers moral support but it's a shame it provides little or none information about controlling type 2 diabetes that is burgeoning across the net.
> I am not erroneous, just more widely


Have you typed LCHF into the search box at the top of this page? If not, I suggest you try it, there are pages and pages of references to LCHF advice, going back a couple of years. I think this forum was at the forefront of providing information on low carbing. 
As Alison said, people coming on here to find support and advice don't necessarily want one side of the argument ramming down their throat, particularly if it is at odds with what a lot of GPs and DSNs are still advising them to do. Better to bring them round to an alternative way of looking at the problem slowly and gently, methinks.


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## Typicaltwo

AlisonM said:


> The last thing the newly diagnosed or struggling diabetic needs is more pressure, what they do need is support and ecouragement and the purpose of this forum, the reason it was created, is to 'support' it's members not lecture them. While your point about the link between carbs and diabetes is well taken, you should realise that your preferred way wouldn't work for everybody. So instead of pushing a specific methodology, we try to follow a reasoned and reasonable path to finding a working solution for each of our members without leaning on them or driving them in any one direction.


The worst pressure is when all the advice and information you are given (and I'm speaking personally here) from all the conventional channels does nothing to alleviate your problems and the disease only grows worse. I was told D2 is a progressive disease, and it is if you treat the symptoms (high blood sugar) rather than the disease (Insulin Resistance [IR]). If I had carried on following my GP's advice and my diabetes nurse's advice I would be on insulin shots by now The dogma that is continually spouted by the NHS, dietitians, nutritionists is based on outmoded, outdated and predominately badly researched data. The best feeling in the world is when you find that by making adjustments to your diet you can bring you blood sugars to within the normal range and chuck you medication in the bin. Moral support is good but beating diabetes is better.


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## Typicaltwo

Robin said:


> Have you typed LCHF into the search box at the top of this page? If not, I suggest you try it, there are pages and pages of references to LCHF advice, going back a couple of years. I think this forum was at the forefront of providing information on low carbing.
> As Alison said, people coming on here to find support and advice don't necessarily want one side of the argument ramming down their throat, particularly if it is at odds with what a lot of GPs and DSNs are still advising them to do. Better to bring them round to an alternative way of looking at the problem slowly and gently, methinks.


How would a distressed newbie know to search for LCHF diets if no one tells them?  For the rest read my last post.


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## AlisonM

No-one is disputing that, we've all come up against it as you'd know if you bothered to read some of the tales and experiences we've all posted here. But the one size fits all you seem to espouse doesn't work either, LCHF is just one methodology among many. We prefer to look at the whole person rather than just the disease and help the individual find a way that works for them.


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## Robin

Typicaltwo said:


> How would a distressed newbie know to search for LCHF diets if no one tells them?  For the rest read my last post.


I was suggesting YOU did that, not a distressed newbie! Usually people ask a specific question about diet, or they have a browse of the forum, in which case they will come across it, or be told about it fairly quickly.
I read your last post, and I agree with you about there being a lot of places still spouting outmoded dogma. I just don't think this forum is one of them. But neither are we peddling a'one size fits all' dogma of our own,


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## robert@fm

From what I've heard, the Red Forum tends to push (sometimes quite aggressively) the One True Path to controlling D — which many people find off-putting.  The latter include many DSNs, who instead promote this, the Blue Forum.  (Although the main colour is actually cyan, which looks like blue but isn't quite, but that's beside the point...)


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## Cowboy Bob

robert@fm said:


> The latter include many DSNs, who instead promote this, the Blue Forum.



Very true, it was my DSN that gave me all the DUK literature and told me to come here


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## Elle321

Can I just say that on a personal level as a 'newbie' I haven't felt pressured into anything instead feel I've been given useful advice and lots of support. I'm grateful to everyone who has told me how they deal with it. I did look on another forum and read a thread with someone like myself struggling with it and there was a pretty aggressive reply pretty much saying it was up to them if they wanted to go blind or lose a limb. That's aggressive ! It put me off completely.,I'm well aware of the implications and risks of having this damn disease but it helps me to hear how others cope with living with it because is where I'm struggling. My future felt very bleak a few days ago ( I'm not trying to sound melodramatic ) and now I have some hope. So all info/advice is very much appreciated.


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## Northerner

Elle321 said:


> Can I just say that on a personal level as a 'newbie' I haven't felt pressured into anything instead feel I've been given useful advice and lots of support. I'm grateful to everyone who has told me how they deal with it. I did look on another forum and read a thread with someone like myself struggling with it and there was a pretty aggressive reply pretty much saying it was up to them if they wanted to go blind or lose a limb. That's aggressive ! It put me off completely.,I'm well aware of the implications and risks of having this damn disease but it helps me to hear how others cope with living with it because is where I'm struggling. My future felt very bleak a few days ago ( I'm not trying to sound melodramatic ) and now I have some hope. So all info/advice is very much appreciated.


Good to hear Elle  We are complex beings, with complex needs and feelings - I personally think it is only when you get diagnosed with something like this that you begin to realise just how complex and individual we are! This is why it can be so overwhelming to begin with, but things do get easier as your knowledge and experience builds  Keep asking questions


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## silentsquirrel

I think this may be one of the downsides of the last forum update, that the "separateness" of this forum from Diabetes UK has been lost, and many new members see the forum as DUK itself, hence questions about Balance and subscriptions.  But as Northerner, Alison M and Robin have made clear, those who trouble to read threads should be aware that few are pushing the "official" DUK line, which does seem to be changing slowly.
Personally I find the "red" (looks more orange to me!) forum much more aggressive and at times unpleasant in the tone of many postings.  I value the moderation on this forum.


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## Maz2

Elle 321 - I feel exactly the same.  I have found this Forum very helpful and supportive.  The last thing people want is a Forum where they get aggression back as you have mentioned.


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## Elle321

When I got the meter just under a week ago, my readings were 17 -21 at its highest. Since using it and adapting my diet accordingly, it's down to 10-13 at the highest. Started full dose of metformin today too. Hope it continues this way


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## Mark Parrott

That's great Elle. Going in the right direction.


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## Pine Marten

Sounds good, Elle - persevere with it and it should continue. All the best to you


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## Elle321

Thanks to all your advice. Can't say how much you've all helped


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## Northerner

Elle321 said:


> When I got the meter just under a week ago, my readings were 17 -21 at its highest. Since using it and adapting my diet accordingly, it's down to 10-13 at the highest. Started full dose of metformin today too. Hope it continues this way


Already moving nicely in the right direction Elle - well done!


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## Martin Canty

Awesome Elle, that's a great start


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## Elle321

Did anyone else experience muscle pain when doing the simplest things when first diagnosed ? Even chopping a load of veg makes my shoulders and arms sore and weak. I've never had this before. I'm hoping it's because my blood sugar isn't under control yet but it's so debilitating and frustrating.


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## Ljc

That's a great start Elle



Elle321 said:


> Did anyone else experience muscle pain when doing the simplest things when first diagnosed ? Even chopping a load of veg makes my shoulders and arms sore and weak. I've never had this before. I'm hoping it's because my blood sugar isn't under control yet but it's so debilitating and frustrating.


It would be best if you made a GP appointment, we can be prone to frozen shoulders. The GP will soon find out if this is what you have . One of my shoulders is slowly thawing out the other one is still a work in progress.


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## Elle321

It's not frozen shoulder, I've had that before. It's just my muscles get so weak then painful.


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## trophywench

Elle - they didn't, perchance, prescribe you with Statins at the same time as telling you that you had Diabetes, did they?


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## Elle321

Yes he did but it was an issue before. He blamed it on high blood sugar. It's so debilitating and makes exercise hard.


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## weemosey

Annette said:


> Take everything you have been told re diet and testing, put it in a mental box marked 'Bullsh1t', and wait for the nice people on here to give you the links/advice you actually need...


I agree, Annette.  I saw a dietician a few weeks after I was diagnosed and she did not give me a diet sheet.  She told me stuff I already knew, like reduce the portion sizes, eat more fruit, drink at least 2 litres of water a day (like who can really do that?) and exercise.  All the usual stuff a person is told if they want to lose weight.  I wish they would tell us something we do not know.


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## weemosey

trophywench said:


> Elle - they didn't, perchance, prescribe you with Statins at the same time as telling you that you had Diabetes, did they?


Hi trophywench.  Oh wow.  My GP tried to do that with me, she tried to tell me that I had high cholesterol and she wanted to put me on a statin.  Statins are evil!!!!  They nearly killed my mother!!  I will not take statins if I can manage it.  I told her under no circumstances, No.  I had to get a repeat prescription of Ramipril and she wanted to give me diabetes tablets (she didn't mention which ones but my guess is Metformin) and then a statin for cholesterol.  No thanks.  I'll take my chance with diet and exercise, but like everyone else on here, I am struggling to find out what I can/cannot
should/should not eat.


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