# Poetry book



## Northerner (Mar 2, 2009)

Hi,

I've had some very complimentary feedback about my poems, which is very much appreciated, thank you! A few people have suggested that they are possibly good enough for publication and that I should write a book, so I've been looking into the possibility.

It seems that the most viable route would be self-publishing/print on demand - does anyone have any experience of this? 

I don't think mainstream publishers would be interested, as poetry is not a 'best seller' line, and sales volumes would be small. It's been interesting researching this. I've found lulu.com http://www.lulu.com/uk/ but this is US based, so shipping costs for purchasers would be high. The UK POD sites I've found seem quite expensive (anything from ?500 - ?2500 set-up charges.

I was quite shocked to discover that booksellers take 40% of the cover price! When you take production costs and agent fees away, that's about another 35-40%, leaving the rest as profit. That means that you'd make about ?2.50 from a book priced at ?10. Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking to make a fortune or anything, but would like to donate part of the profits to Diabetes UK, and it was illuminating to discover how little is actually left over!

I was thinking of a book with maybe 50 poems (150-200 pages), with a little bit of history and explanation about terms used. I thought it might be good as a gift for those with diabetes, and those who know someone who could learn a bit about how it affects us in a fun way. I've seen a few sites around with diabetes-related poetry, but it all seems rather po-faced and serious, and I think we need a bit of humour every now and then to raise the spirits!

Any comments/advice would be welcome - even if it's just to tell me I've got ideas above my station!

Waddya think?


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## bev (Mar 2, 2009)

Northerner!

I think its a great idea - but i understand its a costly exercise - so its just a thought - why dont you ring Diabetes UK and explain the situation and that your not looking for a fortune and the rest would be theirs - perhaps they have a fund for these sort of things? Also i think giving them out in hospitals would be a great idea - Alex got a whole box full of stuff - some of it child friendly - but not as funny as your poems - perhaps it could be incorporated in onw of these for both children and adults alike? Bev


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## Copepod (Mar 2, 2009)

I know someone who used http://www.hhbagency.com/ but that's an agency that represents writers of non-fiction. 
I know another person who set up her own publisher title and bought a batch of 10 (I think) ISBNs - she has self-published poetry as well as a couple of non fiction (histories of organiations), so PM me if you're interested in that route. 
The other point to remember is that you can sell your books, whether or not you wrote them, through Amazon Marketplace - they charge a flat rate, plus a percentage, but they also pay you a flat postage rate, so if, for example, your book can be posted as a Letter (as opposed to a Large Letter or Packet) you will make a bit there.


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## Caroline (Mar 2, 2009)

A friend who writes mentioned Amazon so they mat be worth an explore or try your local library and ask if the have a copy of either the Writers and Artists Year Book or the Writers Hand Book. 

A couple of people have mentioned some success with print to demand but I don't know an awfull lot about it.


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## Northerner (Mar 2, 2009)

Thanks guys, more research for me! One barrier to cutting set up costs seems to be that print on demand printers want files in pdf format, but you need the full version of adobe acrobat to create those, costing ?300+.

The Diabetes UK route sounds like a possibility, but it may be that they just license things produced by mainstream publishers, if it's not part of their information leaflet type publication. They don't seem too swift at answering emails as I wrote to them last week and haven't had an answer yet.

From what I've found so far, it seems that you'd probably need a minimum retail cover price of around ?10 (although the bookseller can choose to cut their 40% margin without reducing author royalties). 

Does this sound like a reasonable price, or do you think it's too much?


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## Caroline (Mar 2, 2009)

For a good book ?10 is cheap. I am one of those if a book appeals I will pay quite a lot, especially if it is a book I will use over and over again.

Have a look round places like Smiths, Waterstones and Ottakers and that will give you a feel for how much this sort of thing sells for. There are also loads of online places that sell books too.

I think there are palces that will give you the infor for self publishing, but it can be hard work sometimes.


All I can say is good luck with it, I hope it'sa success.


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## bev (Mar 2, 2009)

Northerner!

I would have paid any amount of money (within reason) when Alex was diagnosed if it had put a smile on his face! I would think anything ?20 and below would be acceptable for a decent poetry book.

I never have much faith in emails - why dont you try ringing them - i rang them about holidays for Alex and there are so many departments - i am sure they will be able to give you some advice. Or at least they may be able to point you in the right direction. Let us know what you decide. Bev


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## Northerner (Mar 2, 2009)

Just been scouting around t'interweb, and discovered that there are lots of freeware programs available to convert Word docs to pdf! Not sure if they can produce the kind of pdf suitable for a PoD print house though, as yet.

Of course, a lot of this is hypothetical at the moment, as I don't actually have enough material for a book!


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## Ikklemo (Mar 2, 2009)

Northerner

There are free PDF converters available via a google search.  Also some of the newer printers will print to a PDF file.


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## Lizzie (Mar 9, 2009)

Hi Northerner

I read a magazine called Mslexia - it is for women writers but there are some good resources on their website: http://www.mslexia.co.uk/resources/resources.html

Here is mslexia's advice on getting poetry published: http://www.mslexia.co.uk/resources/essentials/poetry.php

"Q: How do I get my poetry published?

A: 
◊ Poets looking to get published usually approach publishers direct. Agents very rarely take on poets because there isn?t enough money in poetry to make it worth their while. And no poet lives on poetry alone ? it?s simply not a profitable enterprise.

◊ Before seeking publication, be certain that you are ready. Don?t just take the word of family and friends; go to a group and attend workshops to get critical appraisal. Find a platform to read work, so you can hear your poems and get direct feedback from an audience.

◊ Get known. Submit to magazines and enter reputable poetry competitions, building up a publication record to show prospective publishers. Ideally, aim for publications where your work will be read widely. It is vital to research the magazines to which you wish to submit. Buy a few issues to get a feel for what sort of work they publish ? it?s pointless sending nature haiku to a magazine specialising in contemporary urban verse. Profiles and content of magazines may be viewed at www.poetrymagazines.org.uk

◊ After you have had a number of poems accepted in magazines, send a selection of work to poetry publishers, following the guidelines for approaching an agent. There are only a handful of larger imprints in the UK ? Bloodaxe, Carcanet, Arc, Anvil, Enitharmon and Seren among the independents, while Picador, Faber, Cape, Chatto and Penguin publish poetry in the mainstream. When starting out, there are a variety of smaller presses that publish pamphlets or small collections; the Poetry Book Society makes a selection of imprints on its website. When choosing one, do your research. What is their reputation? How visible are the books they publish? Whoever you are aiming at, always read what they publish and get to know what the editor likes."

In addition to this I would write to poetry societies and organisations, and mainstream and smaller specialist publishers, to ask for advice. Organisations can be found on mslexia: http://www.mslexia.co.uk/resources/orgs.html#PQR and there are publishers listed here: http://www.mslexia.co.uk/resources/publishers.html

Maybe you could apply for some kind of grant from the government since the book will be for a charitable cause? I would try and find literary or poetry magazines and read stuff online to find out about the industry and other poets' experiences.


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## Northerner (Mar 9, 2009)

Lizzie,

Thank you for all the advice! I'm aware that there is always the 'X-factor' syndrome at play in any creative enterprise - all those poor people at the auditions that have been assured by family and friends that they are the new Mariah Carey/Michael Jackson or whatever, when it's patently clear to the rest of us that they are tone-deaf screechers! I've dabbled with writing over the years and know that it's pretty darned hard to make a living from it, more's the pity!

I've sent off some examples to 'Sweet' magazine so we'll see what they think. Also, Balance have said they would like to see some examples, but Admin has also suggested using 'Nursing 101' as part of a story about how successful the forums have been, so I'm going to wait and see what happens with that.


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## VBH (Mar 9, 2009)

Have you considered ebooks as a way to get started?


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## katie (Mar 9, 2009)

Hi Northerner,

If you need to make PDFs this is the convertor I use:
http://www.cutepdf.com/

You make the documents in Word and then print them to "CutePDF" and it converts the doc to PDF format


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## Lizzie (Mar 9, 2009)

Northerner said:


> Lizzie,
> 
> Thank you for all the advice! I'm aware that there is always the 'X-factor' syndrome at play in any creative enterprise - all those poor people at the auditions that have been assured by family and friends that they are the new Mariah Carey/Michael Jackson or whatever, when it's patently clear to the rest of us that they are tone-deaf screechers! I've dabbled with writing over the years and know that it's pretty darned hard to make a living from it, more's the pity!



Oh dear, I didn't notice that part. I just meant to use it for advice, I hope you don't think I was implying you are deluded about your poems or anything, I think they are great like everyone else. I was just trying to find some practical info for you.


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## Northerner (Mar 9, 2009)

Lizzie said:


> Oh dear, I didn't notice that part. I just meant to use it for advice, I hope you don't think I was implying you are deluded about your poems or anything, I think they are great like everyone else. I was just trying to find some practical info for you.



Not at all Lizzie, and I really do appreciate your input and interest! Incidentally, I did show some of the poems to my neighbour and found that I was having to explain rather a lot of the meaning of various bits to her, which rather ruins the joke - something I need to bear in mind if they are to have any appeal beyond the 'world of diabetes'!


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## Northerner (Mar 9, 2009)

katie said:


> Hi Northerner,
> 
> If you need to make PDFs this is the convertor I use:
> http://www.cutepdf.com/
> ...



Excellent katie, thank you for this!


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## Lizzie (Mar 9, 2009)

Northerner said:


> Not at all Lizzie, and I really do appreciate your input and interest! Incidentally, I did show some of the poems to my neighbour and found that I was having to explain rather a lot of the meaning of various bits to her, which rather ruins the joke - something I need to bear in mind if they are to have any appeal beyond the 'world of diabetes'!



Maybe. But even if people don't know the stuff about diabetes, the images of moles and voles and cowboys etc are good and the poems are still fun, and when they are explained that means someone has learned something about diabetes - it all helps since the media is set on telling everyone false information. The person is then more likely to remember it, since it is associated with a fun image rather than being a bald fact on the news. And as we were told on the news this week, new diabetics are being diagnosed at a rate of knots so the world of diabetes isn't that small. 

Are there any artists or illustrators in the group? I would love to see someone illustrate Milly Mole or the Rhettin Hopper Three!


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## Northerner (Mar 9, 2009)

Lizzie said:


> Maybe. But even if people don't know the stuff about diabetes, the images of moles and voles and cowboys etc are good and the poems are still fun, and when they are explained that means someone has learned something about diabetes - it all helps since the media is set on telling everyone false information. The person is then more likely to remember it, since it is associated with a fun image rather than being a bald fact on the news. And as we were told on the news this week, new diabetics are being diagnosed at a rate of knots so the world of diabetes isn't that small.
> 
> Are there any artists or illustrators in the group? I would love to see someone illustrate Milly Mole or the Rhettin Hopper Three!



It's true about images helping you to remember stuff - I still remember my A level history about Lord North's domestic policy, courtesy of a cartoon I drew of him sitting in a comfy chair, in front of a roaring log fire with a foaming mug of ale...'Lord North at Home'!

My niece is a talented artist (like her father), might ask her if she fancies having a go at drawing Milly and the voles!


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