# Low Carb or Plant Based Wholefood? So confused!



## Rachel Sheffield (Sep 5, 2019)

Hi everyone. I am so confused about the best way to lose weight and lower my BG and there is so much conflicting information out there. Do people follow a low carb/keto diet or a plant based, whole food diet that is NOT low carb but is low fat/oil feee. Thanks


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## Kaylz (Sep 5, 2019)

Generally to achieve lower BG's its best to cut down on carbs

What is a typical day of food to you?

Are you testing your BG at home throughout the day? if so what are your reading generally like?
xx


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## grovesy (Sep 5, 2019)

What works for you and can be maintained long term.


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## Drummer (Sep 5, 2019)

Diabetes is an inability to deal  with carbohydrate, going very low fat or fat free will - eventually - kill you - it is called rabbit sickness or caribou disease.
I notice that you put losing weight first - as though it is required for reducing blood glucose. That is not the case.
Eating a diet which is low in sugar and stodge will immediately reduce your blood glucose day by day. You are likely to lose weight as a result of your metabolism getting back into balance.


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## TheClockworkDodo (Sep 5, 2019)

Carbs are the problem for anyone with diabetes, so - unless you're on insulin and can match your insulin to your carbs - cutting down on carbs is really important.  How much you cut down on them is up to you - as grovesy says it has to be something you can maintain in the long-term - but to manage your diabetes you'll need to cut down on all carbs, so that includes things like bread, pototoes, pasta, rice, pizza, cereal, and fruit, not just cakes, puddings, and biscuits.

Fat is not a problem for people with diabetes, and if you cut a lot of carbs out of your diet you'll need to replace them with something so eating some fat will be a good idea, along with more protein and vegetables.  And low-fat products often contain a lot of sugar so they're a really bad idea for diabetics.

If you cut down on carbs enough you should lose weight, as Drummer says, which means you shouldn't need to worry about eating some fat (I'm not saying you should eat tons of the stuff, just normal full-fat butter, cheese, and yogurt rather than low-fat alternatives).


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## emmgeo (Sep 11, 2019)

I have lost over 34kg in seven months by eating low carbs, I realy have done nothing special just cut out a lot of carbs not eat in between meals and drink plenty of water. I still enjoy the odd fried breakfast and have a few carbs and fat in my diet and even the odd take a way but all in moderation. I was 20st, Seven months ago and today weigh 14st 4lb.
I have had an appointment this morning to see my diabetic dietician, she said that I have done so well she dosen't need to see me anymore and has discharged me from seeing them.
I have got a book that was recommended to me by my dietician and from people on this site called Carbs and Cals, this book is easy to understand and worth every penny, so in my opinion forget wasting time and money going to slimmers world, buy this book a bit of will power and little light exercise and hopefully the pounds will start to drop off.
I am not a doctor or a fitness trainer or have any medical knowledge, just a normal bloke who got ill got Diabetes and started to look after myself for once in my life.


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## Bronco Billy (Sep 11, 2019)

I think it is important to maintain some perspective here.

To say that a fat free diet will kill you is slightly mis-leading. A Lancet study found that a low-fat diet can raise the risk of an early death by one quarter.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...-higher-death-rates-major-lancet-study-finds/

Fat can be a problem for people with diabetes. One of the risk factors in developing type 2 is the build-up of fatty deposits around the liver, which prevents insulin made by the pancreas from working properly. One of the recommended ways of keeping type 2 under control is weight loss, i.e. getting rid of body fat.

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-t...iabetes/whats-your-healthy-weight/lose-weight


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## belugalad (Sep 11, 2019)

emmgeo said:


> I have lost over 34kg in seven months by eating low carbs, I realy have done nothing special just cut out a lot of carbs not eat in between meals and drink plenty of water. I still enjoy the odd fried breakfast and have a few carbs and fat in my diet and even the odd take a way but all in moderation. I was 20st, Seven months ago and today weigh 14st 4lb.
> I have had an appointment this morning to see my diabetic dietician, she said that I have done so well she dosen't need to see me anymore and has discharged me from seeing them.
> I have got a book that was recommended to me by my dietician and from people on this site called Carbs and Cals, this book is easy to understand and worth every penny, so in my opinion forget wasting time and money going to slimmers world, buy this book a bit of will power and little light exercise and hopefully the pounds will start to drop off.
> I am not a doctor or a fitness trainer or have any medical knowledge, just a normal bloke who got ill got Diabetes and started to look after myself for once in my life.


Well done,I bet people that haven't seen you in a while can't believe it's you when they first see you,I lost 4 stone since xmas (3 stone after diagnosis in May)and I have had funny looks in the town,with people thinking I must be ill,as I have lost the weight in such a short period,as they wouldn't have expected me to be on a low carb diet.not that Iook I look ill,you know what I mean


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## karloc (Sep 18, 2019)

Rachel Sheffield said:


> Hi everyone. I am so confused about the best way to lose weight and lower my BG and there is so much conflicting information out there. Do people follow a low carb/keto diet or a plant based, whole food diet that is NOT low carb but is low fat/oil feee. Thanks


Hi, I am very new to this all but this is how I see it for type 2 only....
High BG levels are the important issue as this is the symptom and cause of high Insulin which is the trigger of Insulin resistance which is the vicious circle.
To lower BG levels you need to lower carbs, the lower the better in my view. I believe periods of fasting (water only) is only real way to give your body a break as almost every thing contains a little bit of carb. Increase in activity will also help in reducing BG Levels. Also no more than 3 meals a day and no snacking - I am now only having coffee at meal time as even with just a small carb in milk it did appear to stop my BG dropping so much between meals.
If you keep the protein and fat down for meals then you will also loose weight because if you starve the body of glucose from carbs it will use glucose stores then use stored fat.

I can tell that I have massively reduced the glucose from around my body in a short time by using this approach. I think it will take longer to 'clean out' the fat from my organs that I am pretty sure I have especially my liver - not sure how long this will take.

In the future when I have reversed my diabetes I see putting carbs back in my diet but much healthier ones which should help prevent insulin resistance. Whilst going healthy carbs now might be ok I do think keeping insulin levels as low as possible atm will help the most for reversing insulin resistance.


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## ianf0ster (Nov 6, 2019)

Rachel Sheffield said:


> Hi everyone. I am so confused about the best way to lose weight and lower my BG and there is so much conflicting information out there. Do people follow a low carb/keto diet or a plant based, whole food diet that is NOT low carb but is low fat/oil feee. Thanks


Hi Rachel,
                 I understand your confusion. I had a 3x Coronary Bypass a few years back, before being diagnosed with T2D. The thought of going Low Carb and keeping my Protein about the same obviously meant going higher Fat. But I looked at the results people were getting with it and saw that the HDL cholesterol increase, The Triglycerides decreased  and so the main lipid ration used was much improved.
This gave me the confidence to go LCHF (initially without Calorie restriction  since I am a T2 TOFI). I was still reducing my 'finger prick BG' and losing between 1 and 2lbs per week just doing that. Though more Low Carb than most, since my BG Meter 'told me to'.
After 1month I found I was often not hungry in the mornings, so I added in  skipping some breakfasts - which is effectively Intermittent Fasting (IF).

LCHF is more difficult if you don't /can't eat Meat, Fish, Eggs and Milk products  such as Cream, Butter, Cheese.
But if you can do LCHF, then I feel you should give it a try.

Note that Carbs make you fat, give you T2D and CVD etc. Despite the scientific evidence, conventional medicine, Governments, Big Food companies etc. are still pushing the worst possible diet (Standard American or Western Diet) at us.

Edited: I though my medical details would show but they are not. So edited to say I was diagnosed in March/April 2019 with HbA1C of 53 , last reading (in late September)  HbA1c was 45, HDL also improved and surprisingly 23lbs lighter from slightly overweight at 12stone 2lbs down to 10stone 7lbs.


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## ianf0ster (Nov 6, 2019)

karloc said:


> Hi, I am very new to this all but this is how I see it for type 2 only....
> High BG levels are the important issue as this is the symptom and cause of high Insulin which is the trigger of Insulin resistance which is the vicious circle.
> To lower BG levels you need to lower carbs, the lower the better in my view. I believe periods of fasting (water only) is only real way to give your body a break as almost every thing contains a little bit of carb. Increase in activity will also help in reducing BG Levels. Also no more than 3 meals a day and no snacking - I am now only having coffee at meal time as even with just a small carb in milk it did appear to stop my BG dropping so much between meals.
> If you keep the protein and fat down for meals then you will also loose weight because if you starve the body of glucose from carbs it will use glucose stores then use stored fat.
> ...



Hi karloc,
                I'm a little confused about your post. 
If you are saying that cutting down on Protein and Fat is actually good for reducing Blood Glucose, then I must disagree with you. 
My Blood Glucose meter say different!
It is only by cutting Carbs, either cutting just carbs not calories, or by cutting calories and maintaining the ratio of Carbs to Protein to Fat, or by Gastric Surgery, that you can reduce Blood Glucose without medication.


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## ianf0ster (Nov 6, 2019)

Bronco Billy said:


> I think it is important to maintain some perspective here.
> 
> To say that a fat free diet will kill you is slightly mis-leading. A Lancet study found that a low-fat diet can raise the risk of an early death by one quarter.
> 
> ...



Hi Bronco Billy,
                        Personally I feel that a 25% increase in risk of an early death is substantial ! 
I just want to correct an misunderstanding about why fat is a problem for Type 2 Diabetics:
Yes, Body Fat is a problem for T2 diabetics, but only because we get fat due to the high Insulin in our blood (due to high blood glucose), which both inhibits us 'burning' our fat stores as energy and at the same time pushes the excess glucose into muscles and fat cells  i.e. it stores it away as fat. 
Thus we can't lose weight while our Insulin is high.


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## Drummer (Nov 6, 2019)

Humans developed a hybrid fuel system long long ago - probably had it even before we had feet rather than four hands.
If we eat fat then we tend to be in ketosis and continue to be so, but if we eat carbs then we have to switch to dealing with the glucose, as it is not a good thing to have in the blood stream.
Eating low carb lowers the production of insulin, gives the pancreas a rest, seems to take the strain off the liver and the metabolism in general - even my brain seems to work better on low carb. My fat stores are altering their size and position as the time lengthens after diagnosis and permanent swap back to eating low carb.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Nov 7, 2019)

ianf0ster said:


> Edited: I though my medical details would show but they are not. So edited to say I was diagnosed in March/April 2019 with HbA1C of 53 , last reading (in late September)  HbA1c was 45, HDL also improved and surprisingly 23lbs lighter from slightly overweight at 12stone 2lbs down to 10stone 7lbs.



Hello @ianf0ster 

if you’d like your diagnosis or treatment details to appear below your posts, look under the user control panel (click your name in the grey bar) and add some text to your ‘signature’


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## Sally W (Nov 7, 2019)

@Rachel Sheffield I think reducing carbs is very important. But do have a think about sustainability too. I allow myself treats too on occasions so don’t beat yourself up if you change your diet but eat out occasionally & go off track. I do this and my BS is not unduly affected.


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