# "Pure Heavenly" chocolate?



## Leaderofthecats (Mar 27, 2021)

Has anyone here tried this chocolate? 
It sounds like quite an impressive product, albeit one with a steep price. 

Is it as delicious and acceptable for diabetics to eat as it seems to be?

 It was a big hit on Dragons Den and seems to be getting good reviews from random diabetics who say they've tried it. 

Or, is that rice cream likely to be its downfall? 
I'm type 2 and absolutely fine with eating low GI carbohydrates.


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## NotWorriedAtAll (Mar 27, 2021)

I have had a look at this product and my conclusions are as follows.

While the product has a lower carb content than say the Chocologic dark bar it achieves that in part by using sucralose in its recipe and by using a higher proportion of cocoa butter (the white fatty stuff) to cocoa powder (the brown powder that tastes of chocolate).

Sucralose is problematic in that it breaks down into toxic constituents under high temperatures.  I notice that the website for the product contains recipes and they encourage the use of their product in baking at high temperatures for a lengthy time - in particular their chocolate cookie recipe.  That alone makes me feel they either have gaps in their knowledge or they do not mind this issue - which would put me off.

The price is also very high.

Chocologic doesn't have sucralose and is around half the cost of this product (£1.50 for an 80g bar) and you get more actual cocoa per bar.  Cocoa has many health benefits and I think they are worth the few extra fractions of carbs you would get eating a few pieces compared with eating the other bar with sucralose in it.

The packaging is very similar to Chocologic too.


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## Inka (Mar 27, 2021)

I had a look and what struck me was the level of marketing on their site. I suppose you have to do a lot of convincing people with a price that steep...

So no, I haven’t tried it and that didn’t encourage me to try it at all. Far better to have a small amount of normal good quality chocolate IMO.


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## mikeyB (Mar 27, 2021)

NotWorriedAtAll said:


> Sucralose is problematic in that it breaks down into toxic constituents under high temperatures.  I notice that the website for the product contains recipes and they encourage the use of their product in baking at high temperatures for a lengthy time - in particular their chocolate cookie recipe.  That alone makes me feel they either have gaps in their knowledge or they do not mind this issue - which would put me off.


Which particular toxic products are produced? If you raised sugar to 175 degrees it would be a black burned mess.  That’s the temperature that sucralose breaks down. So how come sugar doesn’t turn to a black burned mess when you bake? Because it’s effectively in solution. Same with sucralose. So the manufacturers don’t have gaps in their knowledge. Sucralose is entirely safe to bake with, if you can. 


NotWorriedAtAll said:


> Chocologic doesn't have sucralose and is around half the cost of this product (£1.50 for an Cocoa has many health benefits and I think they are worth the few extra fractions of carbs you would get eating a few pieces compared with eating the other bar with sucralose in it.
> 
> The packaging is very similar to Chocologic too.


Please list the health benefits of cocoa that you can’t find in any other food. You won’t be able to, because there won’t be any. 

And finally, how do you avoid carbs in chocolate? Don’t eat any. It’s not an essential part of a healthy diet. Or just include it into your carb allowance. But don’t kid yourself it’s healthy.


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## NotWorriedAtAll (Mar 27, 2021)

mikeyB said:


> Which particular toxic products are produced? If you raised sugar to 175 degrees it would be a black burned mess.  That’s the temperature that sucralose breaks down. So how come sugar doesn’t turn to a black burned mess when you bake? Because it’s effectively in solution. Same with sucralose. So the manufacturers don’t have gaps in their knowledge. Sucralose is entirely safe to bake with, if you can.
> 
> Please list the health benefits of cocoa that you can’t find in any other food. You won’t be able to, because there won’t be any.
> 
> And finally, how do you avoid carbs in chocolate? Don’t eat any. It’s not an essential part of a healthy diet. Or just include it into your carb allowance. But don’t kid yourself it’s healthy.


"Research in 2019 revealed that when sucralose is heated to ≥248 °F (120 °C) it may dechlorinate and decompose into compounds that are harmful enough to risk consumer health. The risk and intensity of this adverse effect is suspected to increase with rising temperatures.[24] The German Federal Institute for Risk Assessment (BfR) published an advisory warning that cooking with sucralose could possibly lead to the creation of potentially carcinogenic chloropropanols, polychlorinated dibenzodioxins and polychlorinated dibenzofurans. The BfR recommended that manufactures and the general public avoid baking, roasting, or deep frying any sucralose-containing foods until a more conclusive safety report is available. Furthermore, adding sucralose to food that has not cooled was discouraged, as was buying sucralose-containing canned foods and baked goods.[25][26] Since the boiling point of water is 212 °F there is no advisory on boiled foods or sucralose-containing beverages.
A 2020 study suggests that the consumption of sucralose combined with carbohydrates impairs insulin sensitivity and causes a metabolic impairment which is associated with decreased neural responses to sugar.[27]"


Cocoa is high in magnesium and other micronutrients.  I certainly don't tout it as being better than other types of food but I would prefer a larger abundance of cocoa in a chocolate bar to a larger abundance of cocoa butter and sucralose in a chocolate bar.


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## Docb (Mar 27, 2021)

Just to pick you up on one point MikeyB, sucrose and probably some of the other stuff in your cakes can turn into a "black burned mess" - just turn the oven up to full and get so absorbed in a Blackburn Rovers match that you forget about them. If you set the oven correctly and leave the match when you get bored (about 15-20 mins for a real fan) then you only get a brown burned mess on the surface and the result is pronounced delicious.

I'm rather with @NotWorriedAtAll but not for her reasons - the health stuff is largely spurious and mostly comes PR companies fighting each other than any real science. The chlorinated compounds that might be produced will only be a problem for the white mice who might get fed them in large quantities in a lab.  The amounts that might turn up in cakes are not going to be an issue for a human.

What I do like are her reflections on what you are actually buying and asking the simple question, what am I paying for? There is no reason why this particular chocolate should be any more expensive than any other high cocoa chocolate.  I would not buy it because I see no reason why I should pay over the odds to support somebody's marketing department.


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## mikeyB (Mar 27, 2021)

The comment I most picked up on the is comment that cocoa contains magnesium, as though that were a reason to eat chocolate. So it does, but not as much as leafy greens, any number of nuts, particularly almonds, cashew, and even peanuts, fish, chickpeas, beans. So as an excuse for eating chocolate it is a pretty thin argument in a healthy diet.

I do eat chocolate, ad lib. If I do, (which is not often) I just add the appropriate amount of insulin. I get my magnesium from the kind food I eat. I have experienced magnesium deficiency, not an experience I would like to repeat, it's potentially fatal. It was caused by several years of taking Omeprazole, and spotted by a very on the ball GP.


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## Leadinglights (Mar 27, 2021)

mikeyB said:


> The comment I most picked up on the is comment that cocoa contains magnesium, as though that were a reason to eat chocolate. So it does, but not as much as leafy greens, any number of nuts, particularly almonds, cashew, and even peanuts, fish, chickpeas, beans. So as an excuse for eating chocolate it is a pretty thin argument in a healthy diet.
> 
> I do eat chocolate, ad lib. If I do, (which is not often) I just add the appropriate amount of insulin. I get my magnesium from the kind food I eat. I have experienced magnesium deficiency, not an experience I would like to repeat, it's potentially fatal. It was caused by several years of taking Omeprazole, and spotted by a very on the ball GP.


My OH is convinced that taking esomeprazole was responsible for his Vit B12 deficiency for which he has 3 monthly injections and now they say his ferratin and Vit D is low.
I had not heard about omeprazole and Magnesium deficiency as I take that because I take Naproxen. Is that a common side effect?


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## Leaderofthecats (Mar 28, 2021)

Thankyou for your informative replies, everyone.

I'm guessing that Mikey never gets periods, because if he did then he'd surely understand why I'm asking about this. ;-) You know what I mean, right ladies?

This month I'm having considerable success from avoiding chocolate and instead having lots of mugs of unsweetened cocoa made with hot water, a little semi-skimmed milk, and 10 drops of liquid Stevia.  A pinch of cardamon can make cocoa more snazzy, but unfortunately I haven't got any right now.


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## Leaderofthecats (Mar 28, 2021)

Leadinglights said:


> My OH is convinced that taking esomeprazole was responsible for his Vit B12 deficiency for which he has 3 monthly injections and now they say his ferratin and Vit D is low.
> I had not heard about omeprazole and Magnesium deficiency as I take that because I take Naproxen. Is that a common side effect?


I hadn't known about this either. It seems to be fairly uncommon? 









						Hypomagnesaemia associated with long-term use of proton pump inhibitors
					

Hypomagnesaemia and associated hypocalcaemia and hypoparathyroidism have been increasingly recognised as rare long-term side-effects of proton pump inhibitors (PPIs). The PPIs may inhibit active magnesium (Mg) absorption by interfering with transcellular ...




					www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
				




For more Magnesium in the diet,  I'd recommend pumpkin seeds rather than chocolate.


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## Kaylz (Mar 28, 2021)

I'm one that's always preferred dark chocolate, Lindt 90% and Lidl's 95% are my "go to's" relatively low carb due to the high cocoa % and really nice, only if you can handle dark chocolate that is! I know many can't stand it and find it far too bitter!

Regarding your periods, are you on any contraception? Some forms can help, I too suffered excruciating cramps as a teenager and would turn as white as a sheet with it and be sent out of classes but my form of contraception has stopped my periods xx


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## Leaderofthecats (Mar 28, 2021)

I don't take hormone pills because they have lots of unpleasant side effects. My reaction to the hormonal IUD was absolutely appalling. 

I don't really want to gamble with the potential long-term effects either, DVT and Cancer and such, especially as Cancer runs in my dad's side of the family anyway. 

im glad they were helpful for you, though.


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## Kaylz (Mar 28, 2021)

Ah right ok, it's the injection I'm on, was just a suggestion
xx


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## everydayupsanddowns (Mar 28, 2021)

Kaylz said:


> Regarding your periods, are you on any contraception? Some forms can help, I too suffered excruciating cramps as a teenager and would turn as white as a sheet with it and be sent out of classes but my form of contraception has stopped my periods xx





Leaderofthecats said:


> I don't take hormone pills because they have lots of unpleasant side effects. My reaction to the hormonal IUD was absolutely appalling



Sympathies with anyone who has severe period pain.

My late wife was always told when young that she must have a very low pain threshold because of how painful she found periods. Contraceptive (the pill) helped her immensely.

Many years later she breezed through childbirth with mostly breathing exercises and very little pain relief.

Turns out she had been living with endometriosis for years, but we only discovered that as part of the collapsed lung / terminal pancreatic cancer shenanigans.

I know it must be tricky to access specialist healthcare on your island idyll @Leaderofthecats - but is a scan for endometriosis something you’ve ever tried to arrange? Would that be possible with a jaunt to the mainland?


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## Kaylz (Mar 28, 2021)

That's interesting @everydayupsanddowns since my periods stopped I haven't suffered anything but looking at the symptoms I did experience a few others of them, also an increased link of sufferers suffering miscarriages and I had one in 2010, I'll be coming off my injection at some point over the next couple of years in hope of having children but if I do experience symptoms again after doing so this is something I will ask about, thanks! xx


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## Leaderofthecats (Mar 28, 2021)

I lived in Edinburgh for several years until lockdown hit. 

They tested for endometriosis with the fancy schmancy scanner at the royal infirmary,  and many years ago I had it tested once or maybe it was twice, with the somewhat crappier scanner here. 

Apparently it's not that, for better or worse.


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## Browser (Mar 29, 2021)

Kaylz said:


> I'm one that's always preferred dark chocolate, *Lindt 90% and Lidl's 95%* are my "go to's" relatively low carb due to the high cocoa % and really nice, only if you can handle dark chocolate that is! I know many can't stand it and find it far too bitter!
> 
> Regarding your periods, are you on any contraception? Some forms can help, I too suffered excruciating cramps as a teenager and would turn as white as a sheet with it and be sent out of classes but my form of contraception has stopped my periods xx


Tesco’s Intense Dark chocolate at 85% and £1 per bar is a very good option, in moderation.


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## Kaylz (Mar 29, 2021)

Browser said:


> Tesco’s Intense Dark chocolate at 85% and £1 per bar is a very good option, in moderation.


I don't have a Tesco and also I find 85% a touch too sweet, Lidl's 95% is £1.49 but a larger bar than Tesco's xx


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