# Under the weather or something else?



## beckyp (Mar 1, 2011)

Further to my previous thread about breastfeeding I also thought I?d check a couple of other things that are worrying me.

I hate to read lots of horror stories so try my best to avoid a lot of forums ? purely because more people post negative stories than positive (for obvious reasons) ? but I?ve found this forum to be brilliant so wanted to run some things by you.  

I know that type 1 diabetics have a high risk of pre-eclampsia and I?m not convinced that that?s what wrong with me but panicking all the same!  

I?m now 35 weeks and since beginning the last trimester whenever I sneeze (no other time) I see lots of white spots ? just white spots, not flashing lights like they tell us to look out for.  I?ve never had it before and I haven?t had a cold, just the odd sneeze here and there (probably about 1 every few days).  My blood pressure has been alright at every check-up and I mentioned the white spots to my midwife 2 weeks ago and she said that if it?s only when I sneeze then I shouldn?t worry about it.  I?ve also noticed in the last week that my fingers are slightly swollen together with my ankles.  I know that swollen ankles are normal in late pregnancy anyway so didn?t think much of it until I started looking at all things combined!  I?ve been feeling quite nauseous during the night time and generally under the weather for weeks now although I?ve not had a headache.  I?ve also had a stabbing pain on the left side of my body under my boob for the duration of my pregnancy but again I told my midwife in the early days and she dismissed it.  There?s also been slight protein in my urine at my appointments for a month or so now but they aren?t concerned because my blood pressure is alright.

One last thing that I thought worth mentioning is that my sugars drop before lunch EVERY day.  I mentioned it to my DSN 2 weeks ago and she told me that it?s normal for fasting sugars to be much lower in pregnancy so levels at 3.5 before lunch isn?t out of the ordinary and that I didn?t need to treat it as a hypo.  I had a hypo last night at 1am which wouldn?t rise so in the end I went back to sleep with 12 fruit pastilles and a glass of apple juice in me.  When I tested again at 4am I had risen to 9mmol and then at 8am this morning I was 13.7 so gave myself a correction dose and usual breakfast amount.  Testing about 1.5 hours later I was still 13 but didn?t correct.  At noon I was 3.4 again?.there was just no predicting it!  I?m going to mention it (all) to my consultant on Friday as she might have a different view to the diabetic team.  

Bubba still moving around quite happily so still smiling though.


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## Chrissie (Mar 1, 2011)

Hi

I had pre-eclampsia so i can't reassure you of your worries but i can let you know what happened to me (without trying to scare you it wasn't too bad). At my 35wks check up i had raised bp 145/95 & 3+ protein in my urine i was aloud to go home & do a 24hr urine collection after having my bp monitored for 2hrs (it came down to 130/85 throughout the monitoring) that was on the tuesday i had to go back on the thursday to check how things were, they were the same so i was aloud home again, had to go back on the sat & protein had slightly increased so they admitted me (i had a terrible obs dr who didn't know anything about diabetes told me that i was on a pump because i was out of control & my baby was massive - she was growing on the 50th centile of the scale so normal & i've been pumping for 4 1/2 yrs needless to say i complained about her formally in a joint letter with my diabetic consultant) I was admitted for 2 wks i had no pain/flashing lights or swelling my only symptoms were the raised bp & protein. The plan was that i would be induced at 38wks but things didn't go to plan as my bp suddenly shot up & i started having loads of hypos so they took me upto labour ward & started inducing me, 3 days later & nothing much was happening i didn't dialate at all they were going to give me a break for 24hrs but that was when the pre-eclampsia took over & i ended up with a scary high bp & incredible swelling i got really sick really quick & ended up having an emergency section. We were both fine & the team were amazing & although scary stuff was happening they were calm & reassuring & really supportive of my husband. We were all looked after so well & my husband was aloud to sleep in my room with us for 3 nights they brought him his own hospital bed. What could have been a horror story of a birth ended up being really possitive because the staff were fantastic

I hope i haven't scared you!! I thought it was the end of the world when they told me i had pre-eclampsia i was devistated but they picked it up quickly & kept an eye on me & were brilliant when things did get a bit scary.

Talk to your team about your worries if they are any indications of pre-eclampsia they pick it up so quickly not everybody ends up having an emergency section like me.

With your blood sugars i was given really similar advice to you & i didn't treat a hypo unless it was below 3.5 (thats what i was told to do) I wouldn't worry unless they suddenly drop & your insulin requirements become reduced it can indicate that the plancenta is starting to fail (apparently diabetic pancreas' wear out quicker).

I always felt better when i could feel her wiggling around & kicking me. Its exciting you'll soon meet your baby & then it's worth all the worry of the pregnancy

You can always pm me if you want


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## Twitchy (Mar 1, 2011)

Hello!

Hope you don't mind me adding my tuppence worth, I just wanted to add, if your lunch time hypos are bad, please do mention to your obstetrician, don't necessarily rely on what the midwife says as often they have much less experience of diabetic pregnancy as such - phone in to speak to your doc if you need to... 

I had pre eclampsia first time round (delivered at 34w,5d) but second time around I got to 35w and a few days when I started having a few odd hypos - bizarrely it was only at lunchtime and after getting worse over a couple of days one day I had such a bad hypo I had a normal sized can of coke & a massively carby lunch & still only ran at about 4mmol the rest of the afternoon! At that point I decided it was time to head off to hospital!  Luckily my doc had told me to keep an eye out for hypos in the third tri, as they can be a sign that the placenta is starting to go - apparently 'diabetic' placentas just don't last as long as 'normal' mums, which is why they don't normally let you go past 38 wks. 

In the event, the day after I turned up at the hospital to ask if things were ok, I was having a c section & my daughter was born! The 'normal' (ie non diabetic docs) were all a bit puzzled & bemused by my talk of hypos, & didn't seem bothered that although I was still feeling movements they were starting to feel weaker. Once I saw the diabetic specialist doc however, things got moving & it turned out I was right to heed his previous warnings, the placenta was starting to fail & oxygen levels in the womb had got low, as she was very red when born but had an initial apgar score of 9 due to suddenly getting lots of fresh air at last! (The red was all the extra red blood cells she'd been producing aparently, like an athlete training at altitude!!)

I'm not trying to scare you, but just want to warn you that lunchtime hypos might be more than just late morning lows - if this hasn't been happening before than keep a very close eye on it... also not all docs / medical staff seem to know about the hypo / placenta going link, which is quite worrying in itself, but all the more reason to make sure you speak to the boss!  

Do try not to worry, but if I were you, for reassurance sake i'd try & speak to the doc... Apologies if I've misunderstood what you've posted, I hope what I've written makes sense (I'm rushing, sorry!!)... all the best & look after yourself! 

Twitchy xx

Edited - just re read above, sorry Chrissie you've already covered most of this - I'll shut up now lol!


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## Twitchy (Mar 1, 2011)

Hi Becky, just re-read your post (sorry, being scatty today!) & I would definitely speak to your diabetic specialist obstetrician (fingers crossed you've got one!!) soon as possible, just in case - they will have the specific diabetes+pregnancy advice I think you need at the mo! It looks to me (admittedly I'm just another diabetic & it's just from just a couple of days data, but all the same...!) as if your levels are definitely starting to trend down quite sharply by midday, whatever you start at?...  I don't mean to scare you, hopefully I'm just being over cautious lol!  I always think it's best to be safe though, don't you?  Pregnancy & diabetes combined is such a cow! 

All the best, do let us know how you get on, won't you?

Take care,

Twitchy xx

Now to crack on with my long list of jobs to get on with!...


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## beckyp (Mar 2, 2011)

Thank you both so much for sharing your stories with me.  I think it's really useful to have as much information about stuff like this before I speak to them....especially if they don't know the answers themselves as it would appear to be the case with many hospitals.  It seems that a lot of 'specialists' only look for high blood pressure and protein whereas there's so much other stuff to look for...I checked a site yesterday that said that other signs of pre-eclampsia were vomitting, pain in upper abdomen (just below ribs) and feeling generally unwell....so it's a bit worrying that I've been mentioning pain in my left side for 7 months and nobody has paid any attention to it!

I'm having my eyes scanned this morning (routine appointment), shopping delivered at lunchtime and then midwife appointment this afternoon (busy Wednesday for me compared to usual!) so I'll mention it to her then and if she still dismisses everything then I'll come home and ring the hospital straight away - it'll also be useful to know what my blood pressure is before I call.  

Thanks again ladies.  I'll keep you updated.  

ps. You haven't scared me at all!  I really appreciate it.


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## rachelha (Mar 2, 2011)

Hello

I echo Chrissie, and Twitchy comments, try and speak to the Diabetic Specialist Obstetrician.  I mentioned to the diabetic registrar about my falling insulin requirements and v v  swollen legs, they were not concerned, but when I spoke to the obstetrician she was worried and brought my induction date forward a bit.  I hope everything is fine.  

Rx


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## ruthelliot (Mar 2, 2011)

Hi there, I'm not diabetic so don't know how relevant my experiences are but I did have pre-eclampsia twice and almost the 3rd time. All I really wanted to say was don't allow your concerns to be brushed aside just because your bp is normal when they check it. With my first son my only signs were visual disturbances intermittently and generally feeling rubbish - as it was my first though I had nothing to compare too. My bp was ok at appts however when I started checking myself at home ( initially my gp sister then I bought a monitor) it became obvious that it was hugely variable and was often way over the danger level. It took for me to really make a nuisance of myself and finally they started to listen just as things started to get worse. I was induced and after 24 hrs in special care baby was fine but I honestly believe if I hadn't been so proactive things may have been different. As you say it could all be normal pregnancy changes but as a vet I always tell my clients - no one has ever caused any harm by coming to us too early to get a problem checked! Hope all goes well.


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## PhoebeC (Mar 5, 2011)

Im another pre-eclampsia birth , sorry 

I was saying this to my husband the other day, your only 10% more likey as a diabetic to get it, but loads of us have had it. Her said its just because the people who have ok births dont use the forum, but think he is wrong.

I started swelling at about 28 weeks, lots of hypos every day, no insulin resistence i had the opposite had to drop the amount of insulin i was taking and they still wouldnt stop. Team didnt know what it was. 
At 34 weeks went for my noraml 2 week check up and had 2+ protein and high blood pressure, so they kept me in and induced me, took 36 hours and was hell but baby is now 8 weeks and we are both fine.

Swollen hands are a sign of it but if they have gone down when you wake up its ok. On the day of my appointment the swelling was really bad and really fast, before i left work my shoes fit when we got to hospital about an hour later they where cutting my feet.
My suagrs where really low and woouldnt go back up. 
But i felt fine, thats whats scary.

I'd had the hypo thing for weeks and at 31 weeks i called my nurse about it, lots of hypos and tummy ahce as i was worried, baby was still moving loads but they told me to come in, they did a scan and monitored her and she was fine. I thought i had it then, i somehow knew i would get it, it was the only thing i was worried about. 

If in doubt phone them, you cant be to safe.

Hope your ok and its not pre-eclampsia xxxx


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## beckyp (Mar 7, 2011)

Hi ladies, I wanted to update you.  

I had my appointment with the midwife on Wednesday and told her my concerns ? including with the placenta (thanks for the heads-up on that one otherwise I would?ve had no idea as nobody had ever mentioned it at the hospital).  She did my blood pressure which was up but my protein was fine.  She said that I could go to the day assessment unit to monitor the baby?s movements but as it?s still moving around I couldn?t see much point ? that was never my issue.  I left the appointment with the agreement that I would go to the DAU if the baby?s movements slowed down.  The appointment felt like a waste of time so I came home and called the hospital to speak to the main obs doctor.  I was put through to her secretary?s voicemail (who had clocked off an hour earlier), didn?t bother leaving a message and instead decided to wait until the routine appointment on the Friday unless things got much worse sugar levels wise.

I continued to have lots of hypos on the Thursday and at the appointment on the Friday the normal doctor was on holiday?typical!!!!  The replacement was useless and obviously had absolutely no idea about diabetes and it was only when I was in the waiting room getting more and more wound up that I showed my husband this thread so he knew why I was getting worried. The doctor even shrugged off all the signs of PE (and my hands and feet were swollen in the room!) but because she could hear the baby?s heartbeat she ignored everything and put it down to pregnancy as my urine had no protein and my BP had gone back to normal.  I?m sure she?s right, it?s just frustrating that she shrugged it off without a second?s thought. 

We spoke with the diabetes team next and, in their defence, they were okay! We asked straight out about the placenta problems and they said that I was having lots of hypos and to reduce my lantus by 4 units over the weekend to see how it adjusts.  They said that it only happens to 1-2% of women and the reason that they don?t tell people at the beginning is because there is a possibility that we will focus on the 1-2% and not the 98% of successful births.  They explained that if there is a ?crash? where you have a hypo and just can?t keep it up even with lots of carbs (I?m assuming above the 4mmol that Twitchy had) then there is the sign of failure but as mine did rise after lunches it just looks like I was having too much insulin.  They also told me that it was as common for insulin needs to drop in later pregnancy as they were to increase?.news to me but I have to believe it otherwise I?ll go nuts thinking of all the alternatives! 

My levels this weekend have been much better (one hypo a day but the times vary) and I?ve been getting through the night without having to hit the biscuit barrel!   I have my 36 week scan on Friday where (I?m told) they?ll make a decision on induction date depending on the baby?s size as I?m now measuring at 3 weeks bigger (sounds painful to me!!!!).  I've started the raspberry leaf tablets and have started eating lots of spicy food early!  

Pregnancy is very stressful isn't it!!!


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## Twitchy (Mar 8, 2011)

Hi, really glad to hear things are ok, phew!!  At least now you know what to look out for, which I think is important!

Take it easy, let us know how you get on & if they suggest a c section at all don't worry - I've had 2 and honestly, they are not at all bad, the recovery period is not the end of the world & it can still be a wonderful experience.  

Keeping fingers crossed that you have a lovely smooth time from here on! 

Twitchy xx


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## beckyp (Mar 8, 2011)

Thanks Twitchy...funnily enough I wish I was automatically put down for a c-section - much quicker and less exhausting and seems that a lot of 'us' end up with them after hours of failed inductions anyway!  Honestly though I really don't care how they get sprog out...I just want it to come out healthy and happy!

It would seem that 'professionals' are always surprised when I appear to know what I'm talking about at my appointments  (thanks to you with the placenta thingy!) as I'm sure they can get by with quick appointments without the need to explain things properly to people....mwah ha ha ha!!!!


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## PhoebeC (Mar 11, 2011)

beckyp said:


> Hi ladies, I wanted to update you.
> 
> They said that it only happens to 1-2% of women and the reason that they don?t tell people at the beginning is because there is a possibility that we will focus on the 1-2% and not the 98% of successful births.  They explained that if there is a ?crash? where you have a hypo and just can?t keep it up even with lots of carbs (I?m assuming above the 4mmol that Twitchy had) then there is the sign of failure but as mine did rise after lunches it just looks like I was having too much insulin.  They also told me that it was as common for insulin needs to drop in later pregnancy as they were to increase?.news to me but I have to believe it otherwise I?ll go nuts thinking of all the alternatives!



See that makes sense now. My team had no idea why mine had dropped and they where really puzzled about it.

The nurse went to get the consultant and they both looked really cinfused, and they took lots of bloods testing for things it might be.

Maybe they havent come across it before.

Glad your ok.

Its so stressful


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## Twitchy (Mar 11, 2011)

beckyp said:


> Thanks Twitchy...funnily enough I wish I was automatically put down for a c-section - much quicker and less exhausting and seems that a lot of 'us' end up with them after hours of failed inductions anyway!  Honestly though I really don't care how they get sprog out...I just want it to come out healthy and happy!



I must admit, when the PET hit I was very, very grateful that they went for a section, phew!  Have you discussed your concerns with your team? Sometimes the obstetrics team can be quite open to discussion...  At least you'll know what is likely to happen then. 

All the best,

Twitchy xx


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## grahams mum (Mar 11, 2011)

beckyp said:


> Thanks Twitchy...funnily enough I wish I was automatically put down for a c-section - much quicker and less exhausting and seems that a lot of 'us' end up with them after hours of failed inductions anyway!  Honestly though I really don't care how they get sprog out...I just want it to come out healthy and happy!
> 
> It would seem that 'professionals' are always surprised when I appear to know what I'm talking about at my appointments  (thanks to you with the placenta thingy!) as I'm sure they can get by with quick appointments without the need to explain things properly to people....mwah ha ha ha!!!!



when i had my first app with the midwife i knew i was having a c section and she was keep saying why? obviously she did not read all my medical historybut when i went to see the consultant because I REQUESTED HIM he remember about me 8 years ago and he put me down for c section straight away we know our body better then all the doctors around us like we do with our dibetic children we are the expert not them


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## beckyp (Mar 14, 2011)

Twitchy said:


> I must admit, when the PET hit I was very, very grateful that they went for a section, phew!  Have you discussed your concerns with your team? Sometimes the obstetrics team can be quite open to discussion...  At least you'll know what is likely to happen then.



When my blood pressure was up she asked me if it was because I was concerned about the birth and she told me not to be worried about a csection as it was "unlikely"....I laughed at her !!!!  I explained to her that I was more worried about being induced than having major surgery and she said that it wouldn't be allowed unless there was a medical reason for me or the baby - it basically comes down to cost, diabetics taking longer to heal & then complaining about her and her 'success' levels for induction - at least she was honest!  My levels have been fairly well controlled throughout and at my 36 week scan (last Friday) I was told that I'm still within the 'normal' size so a section wouldn't be advised.  We assumed that because we were out of the boundaries at the 32 week scan that it would have continued but I think it's because that was around the time my insulin resistance kicked in.

They've given me a date for induction but we're not telling anyone (soz but I won't write it on here either...I'm never too sure if people I know read this - talk about paranoia ) but they're leaving it much later than I thought they would.  I always assumed that it would be 38 weeks or thereabouts but I'm almost going to the end as they want baby to cook for as long as possible - perhaps so that induction works a bit quicker????? 

I'm 37 weeks tomorrow so no more than 3 weeks to go!  I've started on the raspberry leaf tea and curry in the hope that the baby gets sick of waiting all on its own!


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## Twitchy (Mar 14, 2011)

How exciting!!  It does sound sensible that it they want to go for an induction, the longer they leave it the 'readier' the body will be to go into labour i guess? At least now you know to keep an eye out for hypos (& they know you know, lol!)... thrilling stuff!  

Just in case you do need a section, or are jut paranoid like me, did you know you can hand express from 36w preg and freeze the milk in sterilized containers ready for baby, in case baby has low bg when born & isn't immediately feeding well? (it's just better than immediately having formula apparently!)  Please check the details with your midwife before trying anything (my info is a year + out of date!) but la leche league do some comprehensive leaflets which might be helpful if you're planning to give breastfeeing a go...I think you can just call them & they'll send you some? It can be a bit of a challenge (tends to wobble the sugar levels somewhat!) but anything you can do to help things along is good... Mine were both part breast part formula for different reasons, but I suspect the main thing is baby & mum staying healthy & sane, whatever that takes! 

Anyway, better go, they're causing havoc again! Best of luck, exciting times!! 

Twitchy xxx


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## smile4loubie (Mar 14, 2011)

Twitchy said:


> Just in case you do need a section, or are jut paranoid like me, did you know you can hand express from 36w preg and freeze the milk in sterilized containers ready for baby, in case baby has low bg when born & isn't immediately feeding well? (it's just better than immediately having formula apparently!)  Please check the details with your midwife before trying anything (my info is a year + out of date!) ...





Not that out of date twitchy =) I was told this only the other day by my midwife lol x


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## grahams mum (Mar 14, 2011)

do you also know that if you have a planned c section and you dont go in labour maybe you dont have milk i had my milk a week after graham was born so if he had to wait for mine it would be dead by now


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