# Gliclazide vs Victoza



## pav (Aug 11, 2013)

Currently I am on metformin 2000 mg and gliclazide 160 mg, the nurse warned me that gliclazide has a side effect that it can cause weight gain, which is a problem for me as I can't afford to gain weight. So far I have been lucky though how long for is a different matter. 

Looking at some web sites they say that Victoza does not cause weight gain, but has some bad side effects.

What are peoples experience of Victoza? I am still trying to sort out my peaks which have on the rare occasion gone to around 16.0, though had a few around the 12.0's, usually before tea time.

When or what circumstances can you switch over to it and is it worth switching over? Want to go prepared before seeing a doctor as most of my practice docs don't provide much support for type 2's.


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## Steff (Aug 11, 2013)

Hi pav

Have lots of experience with Victoza I've been on it off it and now back on it lol,first time I came off it was because i was becoming in patcient that I wasn't losing weight quick enough,nurse said had to give it time so after 8 weeks I went back onto it that was back in April and I'm still on it now, I've lost weight very gradually guess its about 8lb since April....


I switched to v from Byetta after that was really doing me no good, I had a fight on my hands at the time as it was very new then ,I had to show I ws determined and dedicated etc.

I'm lucky I don't have or had any side effects so I cnt really comment on that.

Good luck


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## pav (Aug 11, 2013)

That sort of weight loss I would be happy with slow and steady.

With the reports don't think I would want Byetta, though I would need to convince the docs to see if its worth me switching over. Did you have any problems getting them to switch you over. Think the additional cost might come into play at my docs as tried to switch to SR metformin and that's fallen on deaf ears.

Don't think the hypo risks would be any change to the gliclazide as already experienced a few and highs I want to get lower.


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## jalapino (Aug 11, 2013)

Evening pav 
Hope you get the best drug that works for you!


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## cherrycake (Aug 11, 2013)

hello pav, I was on the same dose as yourself, 2000mg SR metformin and 160mg glicazide daily for quite a few years. Within a few months of starting glicazide Id put back on weight and Im still trying to lose it.

Im afraid I've never heard of Victoza so can't help you there.

Wishing you all the luck when you go to the docs, we seem to have similar practices!


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## AlisonM (Aug 11, 2013)

I've had very few side effects beyond occasional nausea with the Victoza. Weight loss has been slow but steady. The main benefit is that my BGs are generally very good now.


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## Northerner (Aug 11, 2013)

As I understand it (and I'm no expert!) the two drugs work quite differently. Gliclizide will continue to stimulate the pancreas to produce insulin, whereas Victoza (and other incretins) stop this stimulation when glucose concentrations are normal, so less chance of a hypo, and less insulin usually. Less insulin can mean less weight gain, since it will store excess glucose as fat if it is available.


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## pav (Aug 11, 2013)

cherrycake said:


> hello pav, I was on the same dose as yourself, 2000mg SR metformin and 160mg glicazide daily for quite a few years. Within a few months of starting glicazide Id put back on weight and Im still trying to lose it.
> 
> Im afraid I've never heard of Victoza so can't help you there.
> 
> Wishing you all the luck when you go to the docs, we seem to have similar practices!




I have had to put more holes in the belt (on the good side) since starting on gliclazide, unless that was due to the high BS, but now have gone up back a notch, so suspect some weight has gone back on.



AlisonM said:


> I've had very few side effects beyond occasional nausea with the Victoza. Weight loss has been slow but steady. The main benefit is that my BGs are generally very good now.




I think I could put up with a few minor upsets if they don't last long, though its been pretty windy with the metformin for the past 13 years.



Northerner said:


> As I understand it (and I'm no expert!) the two drugs work quite differently. Gliclizide will continue to stimulate the pancreas to produce insulin, whereas Victoza (and other incretins) stop this stimulation when glucose concentrations are normal, so less chance of a hypo, and less insulin usually. Less insulin can mean less weight gain, since it will store excess glucose as fat if it is available.




Now that's what I like, as that's the problem I am having with the glic, good results in the morning then goes high in the afternoon and by bed normally back to normal with the odd hic up when I try  to sort out the highs. If I was to increase the glic, I would definitely be hypo at bed time most of the time.


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## pav (Aug 11, 2013)

jalapino said:


> Evening pav
> Hope you get the best drug that works for you!



Hope so as well, just want to be more stable without any weight gain, as got a spare tyre or two as it is. Just brassed off with the lack of support / help from the GP's, only one so far has been helpful, have had more help from this forum than them.

The diabetic doctor I refuse to see, as I have no trust in their ability.


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## Vicsetter (Aug 11, 2013)

Can't say I've noticed any weight change effects from taking Victoza, but perhaps thats the insulin and my inability to stick to a tough diet.  I've also not had any side effects from Victoza either.  
Have you talked to anyone about Bydureon which is a once a week injection?


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## jalapino (Aug 11, 2013)

pav said:


> Hope so as well, just want to be more stable without any weight gain, as got a spare tyre or two as it is. Just brassed off with the lack of support / help from the GP's, only one so far has been helpful, have had more help from this forum than them.
> 
> The diabetic doctor I refuse to see, as I have no trust in their ability.



If this is the case any chance of changing surgery? as I have been also told to do?
Seems to many surgery's not taking enough notice of us t2


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## pav (Aug 11, 2013)

jalapino said:


> If this is the case any chance of changing surgery? as I have been also told to do?
> Seems to many surgery's not taking enough notice of us t2



Tried that idea, unfortunately the only decent one is not taking on new patients outside of their immediate area. Other places are just as lacking in care, I looked on the list of GP's and their reporting stats, does not make good reading, which is backed up by patients that go there.

The other one near me gets mixed reports, and some things I get on prescription they refuse to do and say go and buy it.  Hate to think what they would do about test strips.


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## pav (Aug 11, 2013)

Vicsetter said:


> Can't say I've noticed any weight change effects from taking Victoza, but perhaps thats the insulin and my inability to stick to a tough diet.  I've also not had any side effects from Victoza either.
> Have you talked to anyone about Bydureon which is a once a week injection?



Not heard of Bydureon, time for a bit of Google research.


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## Steff (Aug 11, 2013)

pav said:


> That sort of weight loss I would be happy with slow and steady.
> 
> With the reports don't think I would want Byetta, though I would need to convince the docs to see if its worth me switching over. Did you have any problems getting them to switch you over. Think the additional cost might come into play at my docs as tried to switch to SR metformin and that's fallen on deaf ears.
> 
> Don't think the hypo risks would be any change to the gliclazide as already experienced a few and highs I want to get lower.



I had more hassle getting Victoza then Byetta needed my DN with me when all discussions took place doc said I had to realise the injection is just an aid its me  who has to do the hard slog


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## pav (Aug 11, 2013)

A quick Google and it says I don't qualify for Bydureon my HbA1c is under 7.5 %, last one was 6.2 % and my BMI is just under the their lower limit of 35, when I had it last done it was 33 / 34 and may be a bit lower with luck.




Steff said:


> I had more hassle getting Victoza then Byetta needed my DN with me when all discussions took place doc said I had to realise the injection is just an aid its me  who has to do the hard slog




That's not looking good, I don't have a DN, and docs don't support type 2's very much.


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## Steff (Aug 11, 2013)

pav said:


> A quick Google and it says I don't qualify for Bydureon my HbA1c is under 7.5 %, last one was 6.2 % and my BMI is just under the their lower limit of 35, when I had it last done it was 33 / 34 and may be a bit lower with luck.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Pav I'm just one example I'm sure the other users didn't need that, don't look at it negatively Hun x


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## pav (Aug 13, 2013)

Things are looking better this morning, I spoke over the phone to one doctor about switching to victoza and did not say no.

I have an appointment to see another one late tonight, about it and a persistent cough I have had before Easter.


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## jalapino (Aug 13, 2013)

pav said:


> Things are looking better this morning, I spoke over the phone to one doctor about switching to victoza and did not say no.
> 
> I have an appointment to see another one late tonight, about it and a persistent cough I have had before Easter.



Excellent pav fingers crossed for you my friend


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## pav (Aug 13, 2013)

Well things did not go to plan .

I took my print out for the last 2 months to show all the good and bad bits, first question why was I testing so often as I am not a type 2 on insulin , reminded him of DVLA guidelines. Did not dare ask for a repeat prescription for strips, just in case he spotted I have them on repeat at a decent qty.

The he said Victoza was not for well controlled diabetics, so that was the end of that discussion.

Next came up when and what I was eating, that fell flat as well told to eat muesli and pasta both which I can't stand. Told him cereals send my BS sky high. Followed by saying I need to eat more and have more snacks throughout the day, I am already over weight and to follow his guide lines I will have a spare tyre on to of my spare tyre. Fair comment on my meals timing as some hypos are my fault as I have trouble with the lunch timings due to illness in the family and have to work around them.

Next came my HbA1c test results said they were all well controlled and my last one at 44 was too low and wants to see them at the 50 mark (have to look that up in old school  not worked this hard to get them as low as is now to have them go up.

As a parting gesture he has reduced my gliclazide down to 120 mg a day from 160 mg, which I predict will send my highs even higher. Left the practice feeling like one had ones lights knocked out.


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## Mark T (Aug 13, 2013)

Oh no, another ninny! 

44 mmol/mol = 6.2%
50 mmol/mol = 6.7%


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## pav (Aug 13, 2013)

Does sort of leave one wondering what the hell (in polite terms) finally thought I was getting support and help and left totally deflated and wondering what's next.


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## jalapino (Aug 13, 2013)

Im so sorry pav!


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## pav (Aug 13, 2013)

jalapino said:


> Im so sorry pav!



Me tooooooo


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## jalapino (Aug 13, 2013)

You must make somesort of complaint!


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## pav (Aug 13, 2013)

Going to have to sleep on it and think of what to do, don't really know where to go.


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## Mark T (Aug 13, 2013)

Personally I'd be tempted to ask for either a second opinion or a referral, but I've read some posts on here in which people have needed to fight for that and then the second opinion isn't much better.

If I was in your position I'd push for insulin instead (although you might not want that, or it might not suit you) since you can have a finer control and gliczade is a bit of a blunt weapon (as it's difficult to match dose to food).

Unfortunately with a HbA1c of 6.2% you probably won't be considered for insulin either (based on NICE rules).  You would need to hit about 7-7.5%


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## pav (Aug 13, 2013)

Thanks Mark, sounds like I shot myself in the foot a bit as prior to this year I was probably more than once 7.6% and above. In Jan this year my HbA1c was 7.6 % thanks partly me and me listening to the doctors saying don't test will keep an eye on you. 

I don't mind if being on insulin if it helps, I have had that many needles stuck in me over the years, if I had a needle phobia its long gone. The only one that hurts is the B12 for a few seconds.

The restrictive driving licence to 3 years is not a problem as I have been on a restricted yearly one before.


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## pav (Aug 14, 2013)

Day one on the reduced gliclazide pre tea tonight 10.3, though been in hospital for an x-ray so lunch was a bit messed up.


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## Vicsetter (Aug 14, 2013)

Without going overboard, I might be inclined to deliberately increase my Hba1C for the next review


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## pav (Aug 14, 2013)

Vicsetter said:


> Without going overboard, I might be inclined to deliberately increase my Hba1C for the next review



Its one way, but don't like where it was before it came down, eye sight got worse and the nerve damage pains some nights ridiculous irritating and painful.

Will need to speak to another doc next week as had one of those coughs that won't go away, had it well before Easter, X-ray results next week if they are clear more tests. Will raise the matter again then and ask for a different doctor.


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## LeeLee (Aug 14, 2013)

Re: the cough, are you taking an ACE inhibitor (for kidneys or blood pressure) ending in -pril?  These drugs have a well-known side effect of a dry cough, but some are worse than others.


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## pav (Aug 14, 2013)

I have been on ramipril for as longer than I can remember, probably in excess of 10 years, and have been told not to take them at the moment.


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## pav (Aug 16, 2013)

Found this prescribing info regarding victoza and looks like getting my BS down and loosing a touch of weight I fall out side the Nice guide lines.

http://www.salforddiabetescare.co.u...and guidance from Medicines Management453.pdf


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## pav (Aug 19, 2013)

Good news today spoke to a different doctor  and they have not ruled out victoza as a aid to help manage the spikes.

Need to stay on the current level of meds until my next HbA1c which is due fairly soon. Explained why I wanted to maintain my current levels without the spikes, which is to give me a more overall better level, and keep the diabetic complications I have at bay.

To go onto victoza they need to show that my previous level of gliclazide might of been too high allowing hypos, and the lower dose is too low allowing to many high's. Just hope its the right way to go with victoza. 

No need to eat all the extra carbs and end up putting on weight as a result of eating all the carbs. Just keep up the good work, and try to keep the hypos at bay, now the weather has returned to a more English weather these have stopped anyway (prob still get the odd one as before).

Was asked again how do I tell when I am having a hypo, which was easy to explain and they were happy with the answers.


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## LeeLee (Aug 19, 2013)

That sounds much more positive.  I hope you get what works best for you before to long.


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