# Hi all I am new to this I have just been told that my bloods were at 19 and that I need to go on insulin by the Diabetic nurse to which I refused as I



## DIAMONDH (Jul 18, 2020)

Hi all I am new to this I have just been told that my bloods were at 19 and that I need to go on insulin by the Diabetic nurse to which I refused as I think they were high due to me being very poorly with covid and also finding out I had no Vitamin D in my body . So I have agreed to go onto a drug called ozempic 0.25g to see how I get on . I have been given a device to take my bloods before and after meals and my average number is between 12-14 so down from 19 a few days ago can anyone help am I type 1 or 2 or neither it's just because I am poorly still ?


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## Ralph-YK (Jul 18, 2020)

Welcome Diamondh.
You need to ask the HCP which type you are. There are tests.



DIAMONDH said:


> bloods were at 19


Was this the result of a HbA1c test? If it is, 19 is substantially hight. Well above the level that is used for diagnoses (48 and 6.5). There are two scales used for this. The old scale can be confused with a finger prick ("spot") test.
HbA1c and finger prick tests are mesuring different things, and are used differently. They're not directly comparable.
HbA1c is an adverage over the last 3 months. Finger prick test gives your blood glucose (BG) at that moment. BG can go up and down throughout the day, and from day to day.


DIAMONDH said:


> I have been given a device to take my bloods before and after meals and my average number is between 12-14 so down from 19


That's still high. Was that before eating, or after? You BG is likely to go up after eating.


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## DIAMONDH (Jul 18, 2020)

Ralph-YK said:


> Welcome Diamondh.
> You need to ask the HCP which type you are. There are tests.
> 
> 
> ...


mine goes down after eating


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## DIAMONDH (Jul 18, 2020)

so are the blood pin pricks different from the blood tests ?


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## Bruce Stephens (Jul 18, 2020)

DIAMONDH said:


> so are the blood pin pricks different from the blood tests ?



There are two distinct tests: testing for what your blood glucose is now, and HbA1c which measures the effect of glucose on haemoglobin, which gives an indication of what your blood glucose has been over the last 90 days (roughly).

The common tests are the first kind: most of us have test strips and machines to measure what blood glucose is right now. (And we're usually aiming for single figures, roughly.)

(It's slightly complicated because a lab can take a blood sample and measure HbA1c and blood glucose, if they want, and there are (big) machines that can measure HbA1c with a test strip and a drop of blood.)


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## DIAMONDH (Jul 18, 2020)

Anitram said:


> Yes. The finger prick test is a snapshot and will vary during the day on account of exercise and food, amongst other things. The hba1c test, where they take a sample from your arm and send it off to the lab, will show your average BG over the previous 12 weeks. The latter is generally used to diagnose diabetes. They also use different units. Your 19 equates to around 125 in hba1c units, which is a little up on my 114 when I was diagnosed Type 2.
> 
> Martin


so would you say i was type 1 or 2 ?


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## DIAMONDH (Jul 18, 2020)

Bruce Stephens said:


> There are two distinct tests: testing for what your blood glucose is now, and HbA1c which measures the effect of glucose on haemoglobin, which gives an indication of what your blood glucose has been over the last 90 days (roughly).
> 
> The common tests are the first kind: most of us have test strips and machines to measure what blood glucose is right now. (And we're usually aiming for single figures, roughly.)
> 
> (It's slightly complicated because a lab can take a blood sample and measure HbA1c and blood glucose, if they want, and there are (big) machines that can measure HbA1c with a test strip and a drop of blood.)


yes i am confused as i said i have been poorly from covid so i think i might be being mis diagnosed as i was told by a doctor that is why my bloods are probably high


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## Ralph-YK (Jul 18, 2020)

DIAMONDH said:


> mine goes down after eating


Interesting, curious.


DIAMONDH said:


> yes i am confused as i said i have been poorly from covid so i think i might be being mis diagnosed as i was told by a doctor that is why my bloods are probably high


I was diagnosed when I had an infection in my legs, and was told it would affect the test results. I'm still down as diabetic though. I'v heard some diabetics know they've got something cause they're BG changes from their "normal". I believe other conditions may affect it to.


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## DaveB (Jul 18, 2020)

DIAMONDH said:


> so would you say i was type 1 or 2 ?


A blood test by itself can't determine what type you are. Yes, the Covid could be pushing you up so you need to wait until that fades so it's not part of the problem. If you are overweight then T2 is more likely. There are no specific tests for T2 but for T1 there is an antibody test. There is another test, the C-Peptide, that can help show whether you are T1 or T2 by measuring the amount of insulin you are producing. Ozempic is the brand-name for semaglutide. This is normally prescribed if you are overweight so it sounds like T2 is more likely. If you are not already having a low-carb diet that is the highest priority


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## brisr949 (Jul 18, 2020)

DIAMONDH said:


> mine goes down after eating


How long after eating are you testing to determine this?


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## Ditto (Jul 18, 2020)

Hello and welcome to the forum,  I hope you get some answers soon to put your mind at rest.


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## DIAMONDH (Jul 18, 2020)

Alannah said:


> No one on here can give you medical advice or diagnose you.  Type 1 is usually diagnosed by blood test which tests for the presence of antibodies (GAD test).  This is different to a HbA1C which gives an indication of  the average level of glucose in your blood over about 12 weeks.  You need to speak to your DSN or doctor to understand what is going on with your blood sugar levels and if you are type 1 or type 2.


yes but if i have a score of 19 someone on here will know if that's type 1 or 2 surely


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## DIAMONDH (Jul 18, 2020)

DaveB said:


> A blood test by itself can't determine what type you are. Yes, the Covid could be pushing you up so you need to wait until that fades so it's not part of the problem. If you are overweight then T2 is more likely. There are no specific tests for T2 but for T1 there is an antibody test. There is another test, the C-Peptide, that can help show whether you are T1 or T2 by measuring the amount of insulin you are producing. Ozempic is the brand-name for semaglutide. This is normally prescribed if you are overweight so it sounds like T2 is more likely. If you are not already having a low-carb diet that is the highest priority


Hi I am on ozempic as i would not agree to insulin i am on a low carb diet now because i had a score of 19 for my bloods she said i should have insulin but i was not convinced .


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## DIAMONDH (Jul 18, 2020)

Alannah said:


> No, they can't.


someone just did


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## DIAMONDH (Jul 18, 2020)

brisr949 said:


> How long after eating are you testing to determine this?


two hours


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## Stitch147 (Jul 18, 2020)

We can't tell you if you're type 1 or 2 only someone in the medical profession can do that. When I was diagnosed I had a finger prick test of 26.7 and a hba1c of 127, diagnosed as type 2 and put on Metformin straight away.


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## rebrascora (Jul 18, 2020)

A finger prick test of 19 tells you nothing other than that your Blood Glucose level is too high and an HbA1c test needs to be done. An HbA1c result of 48 or more gets you a general diabetes diagnosis. If you are an overweight mature adult then it is assumed you are Type 2 but there is no specific test for Type 2. If there are other factors like sudden onset symptoms and/or not responding to oral Type 2 meds and a change of diet or if you have close relatives who are Type 1 then additional testing can be done to confirm or rule out Type 1, but that testing is more expensive and not routinely done unless there are factors which suggest you might be Type 1. Sadly many people are misdiagnosed as Type 2 when they are actually Type 1, mostly because doctors have been lead to believe that Type 1 only occurs in children and young people. 
Just to be clear, needing to use insulin is not in itself an indication of Type 1 as many Type 2 diabetics also use insulin but for different reasons. Type 1 diabetics are unable to produce enough insulin to survive because their immune system has attacked the cells in the pancreas which make insulin. Type 2 diabetics are usually able to produce plenty of insulin but their bodies have become resistant to it, so they need to inject extra to get it to work properly. 

I believe that the people who have been very ill with Covid-19 sustain damage to their organs due to the immune response to the virus, so I wonder if it can actually trigger Type 1 diabetes in someone with no genetic history of it. 

Is there any particular reason why you refused to use insulin? I know I was resistant at first because I really wanted to control my diabetes through diet but unfortunately that was not possible much as I tried. Personally I think I would rather use insulin than Ozempic from some of the threads here on the forum about it, particularly if you don't need to lose a significant amount of weight, but I have no personal experience of it and as with anything you are always more likely to remember negative reviews. What is it about insulin use which concerns you?


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## Inka (Jul 18, 2020)

DIAMONDH said:


> yes but if i have a score of 19 someone on here will know if that's type 1 or 2 surely



No - _both_ Type 1s and Type 2s could have a blood sugar of 19 at diagnosis.

If you want a definitive answer to your type, you’ll need specific blood tests - a blood test for C Peptide and a blood test to look for the auto-immune antibodies associated with Type 1.

It’s possible your GP could give you an educated guess based on your circumstances. Eg what’s your BMI? Is there Type 2 diabetes in your family? Are there auto-immune conditions in your family? etc, etc. But if there’s any doubt, you’ll need the two tests I mentioned above.


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## Ralph-YK (Jul 18, 2020)

I'm afraid, with the numbers you've given us, there's a very good chance you're diabetic at least. *Is the 19 an HbA1c*? This is important for advice.
Since you've been told you're diabetic, and adviced to use insulin, I'm going to assume you've had a HbA1c, and is way above the level for diagnoses. Which 19 would be.
If you don't know, then you need to contact your GP practice and get them to tell you.


DIAMONDH said:


> she said i should have insulin but i was not convinced .


Why?


DIAMONDH said:


> yes but if i have a score of 19 someone on here will know if that's type 1 or 2 surely


No!
It _isn't_ possible for anyone to do that.

[Edited]


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## Drummer (Jul 18, 2020)

We don't even know what the 19 is, so if anyone were to say it was one type or another it would simply be a random guess.
When diagnosed my blood glucose was 17.1 mmol/l - which is what an ordianry blood glucose tester would show for a finger prick test. It was reported along with my Hba1c of 91 as it was tested at the hospital lab.
When I ate a low carb diet my BG level dropped, my Hba1c level fell, I felt much better after a while, certainly by 6 months - but the original test could have been down to various forms of diabetes. 
To differentiate them tests for other things need to be done.
If you eat a low carb diet and your daily test levels fall rapidly then it might indicate that Type one is less likely - but it would not entirely eliminate the possibility. Even the doctors sometimes guess and get it wrong and so far from what information you can give - you might as well toss a coin as demand a diagnosis.


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## Deleted member 27171 (Jul 18, 2020)

Hi @DIAMONDH 

Welcome to the forum. 

Anyone with diabetes could get a reading of 19, it is not the number which determines whether you have Type 1 or Type 2 diabetes.

Did you have the diagnosis of diabetes prior to getting Covid or did it only come after? It is unusual (but not unheard of) for someone with newly diagnosed Type 2 to go straight onto insulin, so if you had Type 2 already and your levels have increased since being unwell then it is understandable that insulin was suggested. Were you treated with steroids for Covid? That can make levels higher in someone who has diabetes and even bring about a temporary diabetes in those who don't have it, in which case the insulin treatment could be a temporary thing - did they mention that as a possibility?

If you have Type 1 diabetes and the medical team know it is Type 1 then they would not have agreed to you treating with anything other than insulin as that is the only way to treat Type 1. If they are unsure of what type you have then they may be more willing to try alternatives. 

Why is it that you were so concerned about taking insulin to lower your bgl in particular?


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## Becka (Jul 18, 2020)

DIAMONDH said:


> someone just did



Then why are you still asking?

There are actually more than two types of diabetes, and the difference between all of them is the cause of high glucose levels, which matters because that determine how to treat it.  That is why you cannot diagnose from the effect alone.

You could get a glucose test result of 19 mmol/L with any of them.

That said, the only treatment for type 1 is insulin, so if your nurse was willing to put you on a different medication if presumably means they think you are still producing insulin.  And you seem to be responding to the medication.

However that still does not mean you are type 2, as it could be that your ability to produce insulin is dying out.  So whilst you can get some short term benefit from medication, you will eventually need to take insulin.

You need to be asking your questions of the nurse, they are the only one who can answer as they will have your medical history.  And they will not have simply checked your glucose levels then diagnosed anything from that alone.  With a reading that high they would have certainly followed it up with an HbA1c level if one was not performed at the same time.


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## leonS (Jul 19, 2020)

It would help  a great deal if you were to include the units or what the test actually was or even better both. We assume the 19 is the result of a finger prick test and the result is in mmol/L.

If so this is high. But all that anyone can say for sure is that you are *probably* diabetic. If you are, and if you are fat and forty (or older as you are) then the changes are in favour of type 2.

NOTHING is CERTAIN and you must be guided by DRs


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## ColinUK (Jul 19, 2020)

DIAMONDH said:


> yes but if i have a score of 19 someone on here will know if that's type 1 or 2 surely


It’s impossible for anyone here to determine whether you’re T1, T2 or anything else without more details and we will never have the details. I’m sorry it’s not what you want but it is for your healthcare professional to determine which type you have anus that’s as a result of looking at your overall medical history, family history and blood test results.
It is quite possible for us to know that the readings you’ve shared are very high and to be concerned however.


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## DIAMONDH (Jul 19, 2020)

brisr949 said:


> How long after eating are you testing to determine this?





rebrascora said:


> A finger prick test of 19 tells you nothing other than that your Blood Glucose level is too high and an HbA1c test needs to be done. An HbA1c result of 48 or more gets you a general diabetes diagnosis. If you are an overweight mature adult then it is assumed you are Type 2 but there is no specific test for Type 2. If there are other factors like sudden onset symptoms and/or not responding to oral Type 2 meds and a change of diet or if you have close relatives who are Type 1 then additional testing can be done to confirm or rule out Type 1, but that testing is more expensive and not routinely done unless there are factors which suggest you might be Type 1. Sadly many people are misdiagnosed as Type 2 when they are actually Type 1, mostly because doctors have been lead to believe that Type 1 only occurs in children and young people.
> Just to be clear, needing to use insulin is not in itself an indication of Type 1 as many Type 2 diabetics also use insulin but for different reasons. Type 1 diabetics are unable to produce enough insulin to survive because their immune system has attacked the cells in the pancreas which make insulin. Type 2 diabetics are usually able to produce plenty of insulin but their bodies have become resistant to it, so they need to inject extra to get it to work properly.
> 
> I believe that the people who have been very ill with Covid-19 sustain damage to their organs due to the immune response to the virus, so I wonder if it can actually trigger Type 1 diabetes in someone with no genetic history of it.
> ...


Hi Barbara It was not a finger prick it was a fasting blood test I had . I did not want insulin as I think my levels are high as I have not been mobile for about three months due to covid so think that is why they are high also insulin gives you thrush if you drive you need to take your bloods every two hours also it makes you put weight on .


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## DIAMONDH (Jul 19, 2020)

Becka said:


> Then why are you still asking?
> 
> There are actually more than two types of diabetes, and the difference between all of them is the cause of high glucose levels, which matters because that determine how to treat it.  That is why you cannot diagnose from the effect alone.
> 
> ...


I am not still asking those responses were from my origional question . I have been doing the finger prick without medication and my numbers are coming down with watching my diet and no carbs so think i was right to reject the insulin she suggested .


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## DIAMONDH (Jul 19, 2020)

LucyDUK said:


> Hi @DIAMONDH
> 
> Welcome to the forum.
> 
> ...


I had type 2 about a year ago was just over borderline went on trulicity for 3 months my diabetes went so came off it I was diagnosed recently with no vitamin D in my body when i was in hospital for covid my doctor seems to think my bloods were at 19 because of the stress of the illness the nurse said that was not true she took a finger prick there and ten and it was 16.7 that was last tuesday I have not started the meds she prescribed yet I have been watching what I eat and no carbs and my average bloods are 12.1 so I don't think I need insulin .


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## Inka (Jul 19, 2020)

Thanks for explaining more @DIAMONDH I think there have been reports about Covid causing high blood sugar so perhaps that’s not helping. 

You’re within your rights to refuse insulin, but just one thing - it doesn’t give you thrush. High blood sugar can cause thrush not insulin.

If you were diagnosed Type 2 a while ago, it’s possible your recent illness has messed up your blood sugars. As I’m sure you know, 12 is still too high. I guess you’re going to monitor things over the next few days and see how it goes?

Do you have a follow-up appointment?


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## Ralph-YK (Jul 19, 2020)

There's no need to repeat responses in separate posts. We can all see every post, so see it repeated. A thread is eaiser to follow if you post them just the once.


DIAMONDH said:


> I had type 2 about a year ago


Then you are type 2.


DIAMONDH said:


> went on trulicity for 3 months my diabetes went


I take it you mean your BG went down. You're still counted as diabetic. And probably big reason why you're so high now, regardless of C19.


DIAMONDH said:


> average bloods are 12.1 so I don't think I need insulin .


That's still too high. And being an average means your going higher than that. It's not just the average, it's the highs that matter too. I'm personally not comfortable saying a T2 *must* take insulin. I'd advice you to really consider it though.

I'm getting the impression you want someone to tell you you're not diabetic. Nor need treatment. I'd go the other way and say you are diabetic and that *is* why your levels are High. And suspected insulin would be of help (at least in the short term).
Now, as The Patient, you get to refuse treatment. Whether or not you have the condition. You can accept you're T2, and say no to insulin.


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## Becka (Jul 19, 2020)

DIAMONDH said:


> I have been doing the finger prick without medication and my numbers are coming down with watching my diet and no carbs so think i was right to reject the insulin she suggested .



If it continues to fall then you may be correct that you can manage without insulin.  But if you are only able to achieve fasting readings of 12 – 14 mmol/L (backed up by a  HbA1c reading) then insulin is the required treatment for a type 2 diabetes.

The general target for those with type 2 diabetes without significant comorbidities who are taking medications like Trulicity or Ozempic is an HbA1c level of 7% / 53 mmol/mol.  The fasting levels your are citing are equivalent to 9 – 10.5% / 75 – 91 mmol/mol.  Notwithstanding that actual targets are individual to patients, and that glucose readings cannot be used in place of an HbA1c, that is a clear difference.

So no, nothing you have said so far suggests you were right to reject insulin.  Your levels are still far too high, so at this stage it cannot be determined either way.  And if you are not taking the prescribed medication you really should be.  The normal fasting glucose range is 4 – 7 mmol/L and the readings you are seemingly happy with are double to triple where they should be.

But no one can force you to take insulin or any medication.  Nor can you be forced to take any action with your diabetes.  But you will have to accept the damage it can do to your body and the effect it will have on your life if you reject such advice.


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## DIAMONDH (Jul 19, 2020)

Becka said:


> If it continues to fall then you may be correct that you can manage without insulin.  But if you are only able to achieve fasting readings of 12 – 14 mmol/L (backed up by a  HbA1c reading) then insulin is the required treatment for a type 2 diabetes.
> 
> The general target for those with type 2 diabetes without significant comorbidities who are taking medications like Trulicity or Ozempic is an HbA1c level of 7% / 53 mmol/mol.  The fasting levels your are citing are equivalent to 9 – 10.5% / 75 – 91 mmol/mol.  Notwithstanding that actual targets are individual to patients, and that glucose readings cannot be used in place of an HbA1c, that is a clear difference.
> 
> ...


Hi I was only told this on tuesday so what I am saying is I have changed my diet and already my bloods are coming down and I only started Ozempic yesterday so early days to say I need insulin I think ?


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## DIAMONDH (Jul 19, 2020)

Ralph-YK said:


> There's no need to repeat responses in separate posts. We can all see every post, so see it repeated. A thread is eaiser to follow if you post them just the once.
> 
> Then you are type 2.
> 
> ...


No I know I am now diabetic what I was saying as I prob don't need insulin and Ozempic will do the trick I was only given it yesterday so early days


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## DIAMONDH (Jul 19, 2020)

Inka said:


> Thanks for explaining more @DIAMONDH I think there have been reports about Covid causing high blood sugar so perhaps that’s not helping.
> 
> You’re within your rights to refuse insulin, but just one thing - it doesn’t give you thrush. High blood sugar can cause thrush not insulin.
> 
> ...


Hi the diabetic nurse and everything I have read about insulin says it does give you thrush also the diabetic nurse told me it does  . I have been given Ozempic only took my first dose yesterday i am on a no carb diet now so I will see how it goes I have a check up in three months to see how I am doing .


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## Bruce Stephens (Jul 19, 2020)

DIAMONDH said:


> Hi the diabetic nurse and everything I have read about insulin says it does give you thrush also the diabetic nurse told me it does .



That seems like nonsense. There are medications (usually for type 2) that could increase your chances of thrush.

And not controlling glucose levels will do the same (which is entirely possible with insulin), but surely not insulin itself. That doesn't make any sense. (It might be that the kinds of people who need to take insulin are also more likely to have less controlled glucose levels, and that might explain the opinion.)


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## DIAMONDH (Jul 19, 2020)

Bruce Stephens said:


> That seems like nonsense. There are medications (usually for type 2) that could increase your chances of thrush.
> 
> And not controlling glucose levels will do the same (which is entirely possible with insulin), but surely not insulin itself. That doesn't make any sense. (It might be that the kinds of people who need to take insulin are also more likely to have less controlled glucose levels, and that might explain the opinion.)


She told me that and she is a qualified diabetic nurse also that insulin puts weight on and that if you drive you eed to check your bloods every two hours hence why I declined .


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## DaveB (Jul 19, 2020)

Hi. Insulin does not give you thrush - in fact it helps to avoid thrush as it avoids sugar in the urine. Your nurse was talking nonsense on that. Insulin does not cause weight gain. It enables the body to metabolise carbs properly and if you eat too many you will gain weight just as a non-diabetic would without insulin.


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## Bruce Stephens (Jul 19, 2020)

DIAMONDH said:


> if you drive you eed to check your bloods every two hours hence why I declined .



Yes, taking insulin does have those kinds of costs. (Other medications also do: anything where you might have hypoglycaemia requires informing the DVLA and may involve that kind of testing.)

And if non-insulin medications turn out to be sufficient then it's sensible to avoid insulin (and your healthcare team will be fine with that: insulin can be dangerous and is relatively expensive so they'll be much happier with things that are easier to manage).

I just don't buy that insulin increases the risks of thrush or weight gain. (Causes weight gain in children with the traditional presentation of Type 1 diabetes, but that's because they've lost weight because of a lack of insulin. It usually (and did, in my case) just results in a normal weight afterwards.)


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## DIAMONDH (Jul 19, 2020)

DaveB said:


> Hi. Insulin does not give you thrush - in fact it helps to avoid thrush as it avoids sugar in the urine. Your nurse was talking nonsense on that. Insulin does not cause weight gain. It enables the body to metabolise carbs properly and if you eat too many you will gain weight just as a non-diabetic would without insulin.


sorry but just googled it she is correct

15,600,000 ResultsDateLanguageRegion

PEOPLE ALSO ASK
What to know about insulin and weight gain?
Insulin and weight gain often go hand in hand, but *weight control* is possible. If you need insulin therapy, here's how to minimize — or avoid — weight gain. By *Mayo Clinic Staff*. Weight gain is a common side effect for people who take insulin — a hormone that regulates the absorption of sugar (glucose) by cells.
Insulin and weight gain: Keep the pounds off - Mayo Clinic
www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/diabetes/in-dept…
See all results for this question
Does increased insulin cause weight gain?
Why insulin causes weight gain. *Weight gain is a normal side effect of taking insulin*. Insulin helps you manage your body sugar by assisting your cells in absorbing glucose (sugar). Without insulin, the cells of your body are unable to use sugar for


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## rebrascora (Jul 19, 2020)

I totally agree with @DaveB's comments above. You either misunderstood the nurse or she is mistaken. There are many of us here on the forum who use insulin and have no problems with thrush. The only time I had it was before I started on insulin because my BG levels were too high allowing the thrush to bloom.
Eating too many carbs causes weight gain. People who are put on insulin and gain weight do so because they are eating too much, just like anyone else but the insulin is not to blame, it is their diet, which should have been modified first.

I really like the fact that you are following a low carb diet as that will definitely help but can I point out that a "no carb diet"  which is what you mentioned, is pretty much impossible.... even cabbage and lettuce contain carbs but just in small quantities.
Can you give us an idea of what you are eating on an average day for breakfast lunch and dinner as many people do not fully understand the concept of low carb and I wonder (since you mention following a "no carb diet" if you have fully grasped what carbs are.... for instance fruit in all it's forms ie fresh, frozen, dried and juiced is all quite high carb. Beans and lentils are quite high carb. Porridge which is often recommended by nurses is high carb. These are all healthy foods for not diabetic people but can be a problem for us diabetics and need to be rationed, as well as the obvious bread, pasta, rice, couscous, potatoes, cakes, biscuits, sweets and chocolate.


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## DIAMONDH (Jul 19, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> I totally agree with @DaveB's comments above. You either misunderstood the nurse or she is mistaken. There are many of us here on the forum who use insulin and have no problems with thrush. The only time I had it was before I started on insulin because my BG levels were too high allowing the thrush to bloom.
> Eating too many carbs causes weight gain. People who are put on insulin and gain weight do so because they are eating too much, just like anyone else but the insulin is not to blame, it is their diet, which should have been modified first.
> 
> I really like the fact that you are following a low carb diet as that will definitely help but can I point out that a "no carb diet"  which is what you mentioned, is pretty much impossible.... even cabbage and lettuce contain carbs but just in small quantities.
> Can you give us an idea of what you are eating on an average day for breakfast lunch and dinner as many people do not fully understand the concept of low carb and I wonder (since you mention following a "no carb diet" if you have fully grasped what carbs are.... for instance fruit in all it's forms ie fresh, frozen, dried and juiced is all quite high carb. Beans and lentils are quite high carb. Porridge which is often recommended by nurses is high carb. These are all healthy foods for not diabetic people but can be a problem for us diabetics and need to be rationed, as well as the obvious bread, pasta, rice, couscous, potatoes, cakes, biscuits, sweets and chocolate.


Hi I just don't eat any of the above i am eating chicken eggs salmon bananas prawns salad but craving potatoes


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## Inka (Jul 19, 2020)

DIAMONDH said:


> Hi the diabetic nurse and everything I have read about insulin says it does give you thrush also the diabetic nurse told me it does  . I have been given Ozempic only took my first dose yesterday i am on a no carb diet now so I will see how it goes I have a check up in three months to see how I am doing .



People without diabetes make insulin so everyone would be walking around with thrush if that were true. Uncontrolled blood sugar gives you thrush. Insulin can help you control your blood sugar and thus actually _reduce_ your risk of getting thrush. 

I’d be interested in links to what you’ve read about insulin giving you thrush...

It’s good that you’ve got a check up booked so you can see how things are going.


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## DIAMONDH (Jul 19, 2020)

Inka said:


> People without diabetes make insulin so everyone would be walking around with thrush if that were true. Uncontrolled blood sugar gives you thrush. Insulin can help you control your blood sugar and thus actually _reduce_ your risk of getting thrush.
> 
> I’d be interested in links to what you’ve read about insulin giving you thrush...
> 
> It’s good that you’ve got a check up booked so you can see how things are going.


Hi I got that information from my diabetic nurse not a link


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## Inka (Jul 19, 2020)

DIAMONDH said:


> Hi I got that information from my diabetic nurse not a link



You said “_everything I have read_ about insulin says it does give you thrush”. I wondered what exactly you were reading then?

Jardiance - a medication for Type 2 diabetes can cause thrush. Could you have misunderstood the nurse or they have muddled up what they were explaining? Jardiance isn’t insulin.

Insulin either comes from pigs or is genetically engineered to be as close as possible to human insulin. None of the patient info leaflets of any of the insulins I’ve used give thrush as a side effect. Certain insulins might not suit a person, but insulin itself doesn’t cause thrush.


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## rebrascora (Jul 19, 2020)

Not sure if you are aware but bananas are one of the highest carb fruits you can get, so they are not a good choice. Most of us have a few (half a dozen or so) berries like rasps, strawberries, blueberries, blackberries or gooseberries or blackcurrants... or rhubarb stewed with a little artificial sweetener as a fruit portion and not generally every day. If you are going to have a banana, have half one day and the other half the next and have it with whipped cream or creamy Greek Natural yoghurt.  
It sounds like you might be eating too much protein which can cause other problems, so do be aware of that. 
Just to clarify, I didn't mean to suggest that cabbage and lettuce are not good choices. They are actually some of the best veggies to eat because they are very low carb, along with cauliflower and courgette and aubergine and mushrooms, so fill your plate up with those foods.


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## DIAMONDH (Jul 19, 2020)

Inka said:


> You said “_everything I have read_ about insulin says it does give you thrush”. I wondered what exactly you were reading then?
> 
> Jardiance - a medication for Type 2 diabetes can cause thrush. Could you have misunderstood the nurse or they have muddled up what they were explaining? Jardiance isn’t insulin.
> 
> Insulin either comes from pigs or is genetically engineered to be as close as possible to human insulin. None of the patient info leaflets of any of the insulins I’ve used give thrush as a side effect. Certain insulins might not suit a person, but insulin itself doesn’t cause thrush.


no she said the only thing with insulin is it will give you thrush


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## DIAMONDH (Jul 19, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> Not sure if you are aware but bananas are one of the highest carb fruits you can get, so they are not a good choice. Most of us have a few (half a dozen or so) berries like rasps, strawberries, blueberries, blackberries or gooseberries or blackcurrants... or rhubarb stewed with a little artificial sweetener as a fruit portion and not generally every day. If you are going to have a banana, have half one day and the other half the next and have it with whipped cream or creamy Greek Natural yoghurt.
> It sounds like you might be eating too much protein which can cause other problems, so do be aware of that.
> Just to clarify, I didn't mean to suggest that cabbage and lettuce are not good choices. They are actually some of the best veggies to eat because they are very low carb, along with cauliflower and courgette and aubergine and mushrooms, so fill your plate up with those foods.


again i said i have a banana for breakfast the nurse told me that was good I guess I will go see a dietrician as i am getting conflicting messages and I don't know what to eat .


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## leonS (Jul 19, 2020)

I have never read anything that said insulin causes thrush. If you have then it was just wrong. High BG makes it more likely that you will get thrush as it is a fungal infection and thrives on sugar, At your level there will be sugar in the urine. So you are at more risk not on insulin. If the SDN told you this then ****!!!, but are you sure that she did not say without insulin you may get thrush.

Using insulin does not make you type 1. If you were type 2 then that is what you are. The type does not change ever, The diagnosis of 1 or 2 is not simple and it is just possible to have got it wrong in the first place.

High BG will kill off certain cells! Not unimportant ones. Nerve cells, cells in the arteries and in the eye, these do not recover when the BG is lowered. You risk serious damage by allowing BG to remain high.

Unsulin does nor make you fat either. Food does that. Insulin may increase the appitite. but it is possible to control weight


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## Inka (Jul 19, 2020)

DIAMONDH said:


> no she said the only thing with insulin is it will give you thrush



Then all I can think is she was commenting on your particular circumstances as there are lots of people taking insulin and definitely not getting thrush from it. It’s uncontrolled blood sugar that causes thrush in people with diabetes. Insulin, used appropriately, controls the blood sugar and so stops people getting thrush.


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## leonS (Jul 19, 2020)

Suggest that she goes for further training! Nonsense os nonsense not matter who said it!


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## everydayupsanddowns (Jul 19, 2020)

Welcome to the forum @DIAMONDH 

Insulin certainly does have a reputation for enabling weight gain, amd it is a hormone that permits fat storage with any ‘left over’ glucose not needed for fuel... but it is certainly not automatic, and in general terms many insulin users tend to find that if they take in appropriate amoints of energy for their needs and take the insulin needed to process the carbs involved, then their weight remains stable.

I have been taking insulin for 30 years (all manner of types) and have never seen any weight gain caused by it.

I have seen weight gain caused by eating extra carbs/calories and reduced activity levels though!

I do know some people who have found that one insulin seemed to cause weight gain for them while their food intake was unchanged, but that seems to be quite rare.

I genuinely believe that the weight gain reputation is largely down to the fact that adding extra insulin allows people to efficiently process more carbohydrates and transport the energy into cells, rather than excreting it in urine as excess ‘overspill’ glucose.

Like others I have never heard of any other medic, Dr or nurse suggesting a link between *insulin* and thrush... only ever between high blood glucose and thrush.


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## trophywench (Jul 19, 2020)

So this qualified diabetic nurse works full time every single day of her working life in a diabetes clinic (usually found within hospitals) does she?  Because that is a pre-requisite for any nurse wishing to take the extra 2 year University degree course to get the qualification, the same as it is for other nursing specialities eg Mental Health or Paediatrics etc etc.

Nurses within GP surgeries don't usually have specialist Degrees, they are normally qualified nurses OK, but need to see people with different conditions for annual checks etc.  Same nurse at our GPs does my annual diabetes MOT and my asthma MOT.  Doesn't call herself 'Specialist' or 'Expert' with anything, because she'd be lying if she did!

Do you honestly believe that women such as myself, Type 1 for 48 years and using insulin every single day of my life since, all have raging thrush and just put up with it?  We don't.  We used to just before we were first  diagnosed, and quite probably have done sometimes since when we'd let our blood glucose get out of control by eating too much crap, but NEVER in the general course of our lives.


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## rebrascora (Jul 19, 2020)

Are you sure your nurse is a Diabetic Specialist Nurse (who is based at a hospital clinic) or just one of your GP practice nurses who is trained to manage the diabetics within the practice.... there is a world of difference!

Your posts seem to highlight a lot of inconsistencies..... for instance....
You said you were following a "*No carb" *diet, but then you tell us you are eating a banana, which is a high carb fruit, for breakfast.
The nurse wanted you to start on insulin but you refused, so you don't follow his/her medical advice but you follow his/her dietary advice about bananas.... which is not their speciality... and to be honest even the specialist diabetic dieticians within the NHS generally offer "old hat" advice to us diabetics and might well recommend eating a banana for breakfast or porridge when both can be problematical for diabetics.

My advice to you would be to get a Blood Glucose meter and test before eating each meal and 2 hours after. That will tell you what your body will tolerate food wise far better than a nurse or dietician who can only give you general and usually out of date advice or us members of the forum for that matter. Most of us here on the forum follow this process to tailor our diet to suit our particular diabetes and it can vary quite surprisingly from one individual to another as to what type of foods and how much they can eat without sending their BG levels rocketing. It may be that you are missing out on a couple of potatoes unnecessarily particularly new potatoes which are lower in carbs than mature potatoes, so worth taking some time to keep a food diary and record portion sizes and glucose readings for each meal so that you can see when things need tweeking. This is the tried and tested advice from members of this forum and many people have pushed their diabetes into remission and come off medication following this system. 

If you are interested, we can give you more info on how to go about testing. If you are self funding, BG meters are relatively inexpensive to purchase @ about £15 for a basic model and £8 for a pot of 50 test strips if you buy the SD Gluco Navii or the Spirit Healthcare Tee2. Other meters have significantly more expensive test strips and since you get through a lot of testing in the first few months, then that is where the costs add up, so buying a meter which has the cheapest test strips makes financial sense.


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## DIAMONDH (Jul 19, 2020)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Welcome to the forum @DIAMONDH
> 
> Insulin certainly does have a reputation for enabling weight gain, amd it is a hormone that permits fat storage with any ‘left over’ glucose not needed for fuel... but it is certainly not automatic, and in general terms many insulin users tend to find that if they take in appropriate amoints of energy for their needs and take the insulin needed to process the carbs involved, then their weight remains stable.
> 
> ...


I have only been doing this a week and i am struggling knowing what to eat not eating carbs but now being told eating too much protein I can't win what is a good diet and what is the best sweet to have as a treat ?


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## Becka (Jul 19, 2020)

DIAMONDH said:


> sorry but just googled it she is correct



The page you quoted says "When you take insulin, glucose is able to enter your cells, and glucose levels in your blood drop. This is the desired treatment goal.  But if you take in more calories than you need to maintain a healthy weight — given your level of activity — your cells will get more glucose than they need. Glucose that your cells don't use accumulates as fat.[/quote]

_i.e_. it is not insulin which causes weight gain, it is over-eating.  To say insulin causes weight gain is to say not having diabetes causes weight gain.

Weight loss is a [dangerous] symptom of having low or no natural insulin production.  The kidneys cannot cope with the excess glucose so cause increased urination, which loses calories from the body.  Whilst the lack of glucose in the cells causes the body to burn fat and muscle for energy.

So you will put weight back on when taking insulin because your body returns to function normally.  This gives the appearance of it causing weight gain, and this is what the Mayo Clinic are clumsily referring to.  But it is not the insulin causing weight gain, it is the effect of it preventing weight loss.

If you are type 2 and do not need insulin treatment then it is because your body is producing insulin naturally.  So, as others have said, the warning of weight gain will still apply to you because you are still taking insulin, it is only the source that is different.

And to quote that page again: "The good news is that it is possible to maintain your weight while taking insulin."


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## rebrascora (Jul 19, 2020)

It depends on the portion size as to whether you actually ARE eating too much protein, but as I said, plenty of leafy green veg or the other foods I mentioned to bulk out your plate with the meat/eggs/fish and a Blood Glucose meter will tell you if what you are eating is doing the trick with lowering your BG levels or whether you need to decrease OR can possibly increase portions of certain foods. We are all different which is why a BG meter is so useful. It shows you how your body reacts to food. No one diet will suit everyone. A BG meter enables you to tailor your current diet to manage your levels.


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## Sharron1 (Jul 19, 2020)

DaveB said:


> Hi. Insulin does not give you thrush - in fact it helps to avoid thrush as it avoids sugar in the urine. Your nurse was talking nonsense on that. Insulin does not cause weight gain. It enables the body to metabolise carbs properly and if you eat too many you will gain weight just as a non-diabetic would without insulin.


I am reading all these posts with great interest. I was also told by the GP that insulin  does cause weight gain. However, reading your post I now understand why that
could happen and that GP did not tell me the full story. Thank you.


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## trophywench (Jul 19, 2020)

Thing is, if you are Type 2 and you have Insulin Resistance, your own pancreas is then forced to produce extra insulin to deal with the food you eat, since the IR means that the 'normal' amount of insulin won't be enough - hence the quicker you can get proper treatment and diet and exercise to reduce your blood glucose back down to normal levels, the better.  The fastest way of reducing it is to use insulin, which could easily be just temporarily whilst your body gets over whatever's caused the blood glucose to be too high and may not be forever.  (I know people that's happened to, after mega infections and a few weeks treatment in hospital on heavy duty steroids - insulin jabs were the only thing that touched their too high blood glucose for over 6 months  before the doses were too much and the could gradually drop them until they no longer needed insulin)  The main thing is it kept them alive and kicking whilst their body and mind recovered.

@DIAMONDH - I saw you asked someone else how long it took to lose the weight he mentioned after having Ozempic.  They said they were about to have their 2nd dose of it and as it's a weekly injection to me that means he'd lost it in a week!


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## everydayupsanddowns (Jul 20, 2020)

For anyone following the ’DVLA rules‘ discussion, it has been moved to its own thread here: https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/board...-and-dvla-notification-inconsistencies.88005/


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## DaveB (Jul 20, 2020)

DIAMONDH said:


> I have only been doing this a week and i am struggling knowing what to eat not eating carbs but now being told eating too much protein I can't win what is a good diet and what is the best sweet to have as a treat ?


Hi again. Don't worry about too much protein. For a few it might be a problem but for most of eat as much as you like within reason. As you may have gathered, many GPs and DNs haven't a clue about diabetes but won't admit it. I would also avoid NHS dieticians like the plague. There will be good ones but not enough; most will just push out the bad PHE mantra. I'm lucky as my surgery DN has had special diabetes training and has never said anything stupid to me. For sweet/dessert, fresh non-tropical fruit is good in particular berries. It's difficult to avoid carbs in fruit pies etc but my wife uses artificial sweeteners instead of sugar. You can have normal fat yogurt. This can either be plain Greek or I have normal fat no sugar added fruit yogurt.


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