# potatoes



## welshy1

Is it right that sweet potatoes are better to eat than white potatoes. Have you got to cut potatoes out of diet completely  with type 2. 
I have been putting peas on meals. I have just read a post saying peas are quite high in carbs.


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## Drummer

sweet potatoes are actually higher in carbs than ordinary ones - neither feature in my diet, and I am really sensitive to carbs from peas and beans - I eat only a small amount if any at all. Green beans are not so bad as peas, though.
You really need to test before and after eating - the usual gap is 2 hours. 
You will probably need to check whatever other people tell you though - some can eat porridge and others - like me just get a spike in BG.
I can eat the low carb breads - if I am careful. The ones I get are 4 gm per slice. Any other grain based foods - whole meal, brown or white - whoosh - potatoes - whoosh and remaining high for hours.


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## zuludog

With sweet potatoes and ordinary potatoes you need to consider both the total CHO content and the Glycaemic Index, which is a measure of how quickly carbohydrates are turned into sugar. Sweet potatoes have a lower GI than ordinary ones
That's when things get a bit more complicated and you have to do your homework, and, as mentioned, measure your BS to see how any CHO affects you. It's simpler just not to eat them. Same goes for other CHO things like pasta, pastry, & rice

Since I was diagnosed 20 years ago I have cut out a lot of carbohydrates, and I'm still working on it; you need to be careful all the time. I found the easiest was just to cut out potatoes completely (but see exception), and substitute plenty of vegetables. You soon get used to it
I do eat all types of vegetables though, including peas & beans. As well as peas on my plate I eat veg stews & casseroles. You just have to be careful about how much you eat
Now & again I'll buy some new potatoes and have one or two with a salad or poached fish & veg, but I allow for them

A side issue about potatoes, and not only for diabetics, is how they are eaten. Plain boiled spuds are OK as long as you know about them, but the problem is the things they attract and are served with, like fat & butter for chips & mash; mayonnaise on a baked spud; or commercial sauces which contain fat, sugar, and salt


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## welshy1

Hi zuludog
Thanks for the info on spuds.
I am really srtuggling at moment to prepare good food. Just had our lunch. It was bland and boring. I am steaming veg broccoli and green beans. I cooked chicken in oven in foil, I had fish  cooked same way. But there is no taste in anything. I am going to have to find something to make the food tasty. I did look at some recipes earlier. I am going to try cottage pie with carrot mash that sounds really tasty.


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## welshy1

Anitram
The nurse  at doctors surgery did not mention to my partner  about doing pre or post testing. Do you think it is worth getting back to the nurse and asking her if he needs to be doing that.


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## Eddy Edson

welshy1 said:


> Anitram
> The nurse  at doctors surgery did not mention to my partner  about doing pre or post testing. Do you think it is worth getting back to the nurse and asking her if he needs to be doing that.



Chances are the nurse will say not to, but just about everybody here will say you should.  But only if you actually use it for something, not just for showing to the nurse or whatever. What you want is to know what kind of foods do what to your partner - every T2 will react to different foods differently, so there's really no very useful general recommendations to be made about potatoes or anything else, and hence the need for testing.


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## Ralph-YK

Duplicated, with a couple of replies here:
https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/potatoes.82047/#post-910940


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## zuludog

welshy1 said:


> Hi zuludog
> Thanks for the info on spuds.
> I am really srtuggling at moment to prepare good food. Just had our lunch. It was bland and boring. I am steaming veg broccoli and green beans. I cooked chicken in oven in foil, I had fish  cooked same way. But there is no taste in anything. I am going to have to find something to make the food tasty. I did look at some recipes earlier. I am going to try cottage pie with carrot mash that sounds really tasty.



A few point to think about -

You don't say how long you've been diagnosed. Have you joined Diabetes UK? They have an introductory guide and a careline. Also a magazine with interesting articles and recipes; and recipe books
You could go to your library for books about diabetes - general, which usually have a few recipes and food advice anyway, or diabetic cookery; or look at the book section on this forum or try Amazon

You could Search The Net and YouTube for meals for diabetics. Many meals and recipes are by Americans. Nothing wrong with that but add 'UK' to the search to make it more relevant. As with anything on t'Net you have to be a bit cautious

I've just discovered Mediterranean and Middle Eastern cookery. It's not all diabetes friendly, but at the moment I'm eating things based on Greek Salad even if it's not absolutely authentic
It occurred to me that variations on salad dressings like French or Italian could be used on other meals; just play around with them. But make your own; for example I noticed that Newman's  Own French Dressing has added sugar
Again, Search Google and YouTube. There are lots of videos. I'm not a great fan of Jamie Oliver, but his video 'Principles for Salads' has a simple dressing

Fish or chicken in foil? How about adding rosemary to the chicken or tarragon to both; plus salt & black pepper; butter; white wine; olive oil; garlic if you like it; a few sliced mushrooms; lemon juice - out of a real lemon or a bottle; sliced bell peppers

When I was diagnosed I had a session with the dietician/nutritionist, and I remember her words - 'Don't get hung up ( we were both of similar age, and were young in the 1970s) on what you can't have. Concentrate on what you CAN have'.

Go to the Home Page of Diabetes UK. Scroll down and you'll find a section on food, meals, and recipes


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## Drummer

A low carb diet is not at all bland - cook your fish with a herb butter - roast some veges to have with it  - mushrooms, courgette, aubergine - try mashed cauliflower where you'd 'expect' mashed potatoes, or celeriac.
Roasting chicken thighs, on a rack or In the Tefal Actifry gives them a crispy skin - delicious. 
In the hot weather I often have a salad - sweet pepper, a bag of prepared salad, coleslaw celery radish cucumber - salad dressing with a pinch of herbs added and shaken up - leave a few hours for the flavour to develop.


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## belugalad

welshy1 said:


> Hi zuludog
> Thanks for the info on spuds.
> I am really srtuggling at moment to prepare good food. Just had our lunch. It was bland and boring. I am steaming veg broccoli and green beans. I cooked chicken in oven in foil, I had fish  cooked same way. But there is no taste in anything. I am going to have to find something to make the food tasty. I did look at some recipes earlier. I am going to try cottage pie with carrot mash that sounds really tasty.



Now and again I have a chicken curry made with pataks curry sauce in the jar, it's enough to make 2 curries and I serve it with cauliflower rice that I get from Sainsburys frozen(packet of four)I liked the texture of the cauli rice,I added a big mound of broccoli too,I tested afterwards with my meter and I was fine


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## zuludog

Search Google & YouTube for sweet potato mash, there are several references. If you're not too sure about it, you could substitute a proportion with ordinary potato to start with, but they have different cooking times so you would have to cook them separately then combine them at the end

Also you could fry off the fat from the mince, or replace it with canned lentils, beans, or chick peas


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## Drummer

Ah - the high carb option is one which doesn't work for me - no potatoes of any kind as they all cause spikes, no lentils at all - other than a few peas or a slightly larger portion of green beans - otherwise I have blood glucose  in the teens.
I add mushrooms to mince to soak up the fat. It is essential to have fats in your diet when low carbing.


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## rebrascora

Mushrooms and aubergines are wonderful for soaking up fats.


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## CathyB

I cut all potatoes, rice, pasta and only have a little low carb Burgen bread, I also spike with berries where others are fine, the only fruit I can have is 2 small apples as long as they are spread over the day.  I love my diet now, I eat chilli or curry sometimes with cauliflower rice but sometimes just on its own, I love a tasty stir fry or a fresh salad with avocado, a favourite is cottage pie topped with mashed cauliflower and sprinkled with cheese 
If you go low carb you can go higher in good fats, butter, cream, olive oil, Greek yoghurt is a yummy treat.  I also have sugar free jelly as a sweet treat .  I often go to my daughters for a roast, I just don’t have the spuds and she always does plenty of cabbage, broccoli & cauliflower so I always leave feeling stuffed!!  I love a juicy steak topped with garlic mushrooms and served with cauliflower cheese (no milk or flour)......the list is endless.......I’m hungry now


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## welshy1

Anitram said:


> Smoked fish poached in foil is tasty if served with a dollop of Lurpak or similar melted on top. That's a regular with me. The lazy option with chicken is to use one of those cook-in-a-bag packet sauces. Lots of flavouring options. Bolognese is also a regular with us, but with half portions of wholegrain spelt pasta or spaghetti rather than the regular kind.
> 
> We had a traditional roast dinner yesterday. I just went easy on the roast potatoes.
> 
> Martin


Anitram
When you have a roast dinner do you have gravy with it. I know my partner would really enjoy having a good roast dinner. What veg do you have with your roast dinner, would love him to have something tasty for a change. I know he is not eating much at all, he has lost weight, but really does not need to lose any more. I am still struggling with meals.


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## welshy1

Thanks for the help. I am really struggling with the meals.


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## welshy1

All of you on here are so good at managing your diabetes. I know my partner was only just diagnosed at 48, but I am finding it all very difficult.


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## grovesy

Is 48 his age or the Blood Result he was diagnosed at? 
Some of us have been at this a while.


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## welshy1

Grovesy
He  was diagnosed 48


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## Drummer

Can you explain what is difficult?
It is a little hard for me to understand as I started low carbing in the early 70s and have been doing that or on a low fat low calorie diet ever since. Normal eating doesn't seem to have happened to me.


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## welshy1

I guess he wishes he was aged 48.


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## grovesy

Well 48 would be the HBA1c test and that is not too bad.


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## welshy1

I am trying to lower his carbs, but when reading all those labels on food, some say the sugars are high, I worry if I am giving him too much sugar  in his meals.


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## grovesy

welshy1 said:


> I guess he wishes he was aged 48.


Dont we all.


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## welshy1

Ahh so is that not his sugar levels, sorry to be hopeless at this


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## welshy1

yep we sure do.


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## welshy1

I will be going to cook some tea for him soon, hope he enjoys this meal.


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## welshy1

Stir fry onions, peppers and chicken thighs.


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## grovesy

welshy1 said:


> Ahh so is that not his sugar levels, sorry to be hopeless at this


It is in away it is the average of glucose(sugar) over 2-3 months. There is a blood glucose (sugar) that is done by finger prick and that is expressed differently, Type 2 should ideally be between 4- 7 mmols before meals and less tha 8.5 mmols 2 hours after meals.


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## grovesy

welshy1 said:


> Stir fry onions, peppers and chicken thighs.


That sounds good. I recommend a book called The First Year of Type 2 Diabetes by Gretchen Becker, the English version  she is American and it is very easy read.


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## Drummer

welshy1 said:


> Stir fry onions, peppers and chicken thighs.


Sounds a bit sparse - I would add in mushrooms and courgette or aubergine - but chicken thighs are a favourite here - I have a Tefal Actifry which gives them really nice crispy skins.
There aren't many things in packages to inspect in my shopping - sausages, as they can be very various.
You could try the prepacked mixes for stir frying - but you need to watch the carbs as some of them are heavy on such things as sweetcorn - which is a grain and highish carb. Beansprouts are usually good if fresh.


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## CathyB

Hi @welshy1 have you had a look at this thread?

https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/forums/food-carb-queries-recipes.4/


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## trophywench

Sugar - and all forms of it so maltose glucose lactose sucrose and anything else ~ose - are just all carbohydrates same as spuds, flour, rice, pasta.


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## belugalad

CathyB said:


> I cut all potatoes, rice, pasta and only have a little low carb Burgen bread, I also spike with berries where others are fine, the only fruit I can have is 2 small apples as long as they are spread over the day.  I love my diet now, I eat chilli or curry sometimes with cauliflower rice but sometimes just on its own, I love a tasty stir fry or a fresh salad with avocado, a favourite is cottage pie topped with mashed cauliflower and sprinkled with cheese
> If you go low carb you can go higher in good fats, butter, cream, olive oil, Greek yoghurt is a yummy treat.  I also have sugar free jelly as a sweet treat .  I often go to my daughters for a roast, I just don’t have the spuds and she always does plenty of cabbage, broccoli & cauliflower so I always leave feeling stuffed!!  I love a juicy steak topped with garlic mushrooms and served with cauliflower cheese (no milk or flour)......the list is endless.......I’m hungry now



I have some cauli rice in my freezer,next time I buy some mince I shall make your version  with the cauli rice and grated cheese,I'm not one to make food that I have to think about too much or has too many components but that's simple enough for me,I enjoy stir fries too and had one tonight with full fat cream cheese stirred in at the end,I haven't concentrated on the high fats too much  yet,but will be doing that when I get down to my target weight


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## JMyrtle

Courgettes are good cooked the Maltese way, slice lengthways and fry flat side first with a crushed clove of garlic, when browned turn over, top with parmisan cheese and cook for another couple of minutes, you can cook them in the same pan as steak or chops if that's what you are already cooking


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## Browser

The advice about cutting out completely or cutting down on potatoes is very sound. However, if like me, you love your spuds, you might wish to experiment with how you prepare them. I can tolerate a few small new potatoes without significant rise in BG but have found that mashed potato, prepared, frozen and portioned into helpings of 150 gms. is ok for me. I reheat the portions for four minutes on high in the microwave. The portion size is adequate and covers a small individual shepherds pie nicely. I have also found that the same approach with brown rice and whole meal pasta works well for me. Cook the rice and pasta till almost ready, cool it right away and freeze in small portions of 120gms. When required, ‘recook’ the portion for a few minutes in rapid boiling water. As I said, this works for me and others I have spoken to, but you learn here regularly, that we are all different and must experiment accordingly.


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## welshy1

Drummer said:


> Sounds a bit sparse - I would add in mushrooms and courgette or aubergine - but chicken thighs are a favourite here - I have a Tefal Actifry which gives them really nice crispy skins.
> There aren't many things in packages to inspect in my shopping - sausages, as they can be very various.
> You could try the prepacked mixes for stir frying - but you need to watch the carbs as some of them are heavy on such things as sweetcorn - which is a grain and highish carb. Beansprouts are usually good if fresh.


I have never cooked  courgette or aubergine, only ever had it when I used to get a takeaway curry  
I know I did not cook much yesterday, I haven't been food shopping so very low on stuff now, no fresh veg left, so looks like I will have to get a food order in very soon.
What is best way to cook both.


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## welshy1

CathyB said:


> Hi @welshy1 have you had a look at this thread?
> 
> https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/forums/food-carb-queries-recipes.4/


CathyB
Yes I look on there every day for inspiration, I have found a couple of recipes I may try, Monday I think I need to do a proper shop.


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## grovesy

I roast courgettes.


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## Drummer

I have a set of cast iron pans - jet black and glossy with use. They are heavy and non stick. I slice courgettes and aubergines into discs about half an inch thick and fry them in olive oil and butter, at a gentle sizzle until they are lightly browned and beginning to soften.


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## welshy1

I know this is a silly question, but I don't know what to do. I am hopingly doing ok with  lowering my partners carb intake. He isn't eating much  every day. I do cook meat or fish for him every day. As you all know that is low in fat. What can I get to make his fat intake per day higher. I am finding it difficult still. I am so grateful for all your help since joining here last week. He is eating the right food, but not a lot of it, I want to make sure he does not feel hungry. What are the best things I could buy to help him.


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## Drummer

Meat isn't low in fat unless you get expensive cuts or trim off the fat - he doesn't need that. Try chicken thighs, pork chops or belly, shoulder of lamb, oily fish or cook with fat and oil.
Do stir fries, with mushrooms or veges which will absorb the fat or oil. Use fatty mince and cauliflower to make a cottage or shepherds pie. Scramble eggs with butter (fried eggs are actually lower in fat) add cream to coffee and to berries for dessert.


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## welshy1

Thanks for the help Drummer  it is so appreciated. I have been worried he isn't eating enough fat in his diet.


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## welshy1

Yes we had chicken thighs


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## grovesy

I find fat intake is personal, and I could not tolerate some of things many suggest.


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## belugalad

welshy1 said:


> Thanks for the help Drummer  it is so appreciated. I have been worried he isn't eating enough fat in his diet.


With regards to fat,nuts contain fats I was surprised at the high contenct,I have pecans and walnuts and they are about 70% fat so are a handy way of adding fats and can be eaten as snacks I add some to my Lidl milbona Greek youghurt the full fat version which is 10% fat,I have avacados in my fridge they have quite a high fat content at 20%.
I get the nuts from Lidl in 200g bags I think they are probably the cheapest place to get them,they are very heavy on calories though so your partner wont want to sit in front of the tv and empty a bag ,but as I said a handful as a snack just to get some fats in, they are handy.


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## zuludog

Glad to hear you're just about managing, but as you say, could do with some help. Here are some suggestions -

Join Diabetes UK, or DUK as it is often known on this forum
They have a good introductory pack, a magazine that includes recipes, and a Careline, though you don't have to be a member to use it. In fact, do phone the Careline then you can discuss your questions more easily, and they can make suggestions; and it's more pleasant and immediate than using a forum (brilliant though we are!)
Careline number is 0345 - 123 - 2399
Go to their home page and Search for books, there are a couple of cookery books

Scroll down to the bottom of the home page for this forum to the book section and choose a couple that sound OK and that you would find useful

Get a basic book on D; it will explain a lot of things, and usually has a recipe section. Try your library, or it's better to have your own copy that you can read any time, and get to know it
'Diabetes For Dummies UK' is as good as any, but make sure it is the UK edition to make it more relevant About £5 used from Amazon
For any book I have always found that Used from Amazon are still in good condition, and good value for money

In fact I've just ordered this book; I only know it from the reviews and description but it looks interesting -
'Mediterranean Cooking For Diabetics - Delicious Dishes to Control or Avoid Diabetes' by Robin Ellis. About £8 used from Amazon

Go to your doctor or clinic and ask - in fact, insist - on an appointment with a dietician

Search YouTube for various aspects of D. Most of the recipes & meals will be American, and as with anything on YT you need to be a bit cautious, but they will give you some ideas on the things that can be done, and the approach to take


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## welshy1

belugalad said:


> With regards to fat,nuts contain fats I was surprised at the high contenct,I have pecans and walnuts and they are about 70% fat so are a handy way of adding fats and can be eaten as snacks I add some to my Lidl milbona Greek youghurt the full fat version which is 10% fat,I have avacados in my fridge they have quite a high fat content at 20%.
> I get the nuts from Lidl in 200g bags I think they are probably the cheapest place to get them,they are very heavy on calories though so your partner wont want to sit in front of the tv and empty a bag ,but as I said a handful as a snack just to get some fats in, they are handy.


I have bought some walnuts and hazelnuts from Aldi. He has started to have a handful if he feels hungry. Actually I find them very nice for a little snack.


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## welshy1

zuludog said:


> Glad to hear you're just about managing, but as you say, could do with some help. Here are some suggestions -
> 
> Join Diabetes UK, or DUK as it is often known on this forum
> They have a good introductory pack, a magazine that includes recipes, and a Careline, though you don't have to be a member to use it. In fact, do phone the Careline then you can discuss your questions more easily, and they can make suggestions; and it's more pleasant and immediate than using a forum (brilliant though we are!)
> Careline number is 0345 - 123 - 2399
> Go to their home page and Search for books, there are a couple of cookery books
> 
> Scroll down to the bottom of the home page for this forum to the book section and choose a couple that sound OK and that you would find useful
> 
> Get a basic book on D; it will explain a lot of things, and usually has a recipe section. Try your library, or it's better to have your own copy that you can read any time, and get to know it
> 'Diabetes For Dummies UK' is as good as any, but make sure it is the UK edition to make it more relevant About £5 used from Amazon
> For any book I have always found that Used from Amazon are still in good condition, and good value for money
> 
> In fact I've just ordered this book; I only know it from the reviews and description but it looks interesting -
> 'Mediterranean Cooking For Diabetics - Delicious Dishes to Control or Avoid Diabetes' by Robin Ellis. About £8 used from Amazon
> 
> Go to your doctor or clinic and ask - in fact, insist - on an appointment with a dietician
> 
> Search YouTube for various aspects of D. Most of the recipes & meals will be American, and as with anything on YT you need to be a bit cautious, but they will give you some ideas on the things that can be done, and the approach to take


I have just ordered 2 books from Amazon. The carb counter pocket book, another low carb recipes, just waiting for them to be delivered.


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## welshy1

grovesy said:


> I roast courgettes.


Grovesy
Yesterday I went to Aldi and got courgettes and  aubergine. Might be giving those a try and cook today. Hope they turn out ok.


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## welshy1

zuludog said:


> Glad to hear you're just about managing, but as you say, could do with some help. Here are some suggestions -
> 
> Join Diabetes UK, or DUK as it is often known on this forum
> They have a good introductory pack, a magazine that includes recipes, and a Careline, though you don't have to be a member to use it. In fact, do phone the Careline then you can discuss your questions more easily, and they can make suggestions; and it's more pleasant and immediate than using a forum (brilliant though we are!)
> Careline number is 0345 - 123 - 2399
> Go to their home page and Search for books, there are a couple of cookery books
> 
> Scroll down to the bottom of the home page for this forum to the book section and choose a couple that sound OK and that you would find useful
> 
> Get a basic book on D; it will explain a lot of things, and usually has a recipe section. Try your library, or it's better to have your own copy that you can read any time, and get to know it
> 'Diabetes For Dummies UK' is as good as any, but make sure it is the UK edition to make it more relevant About £5 used from Amazon
> For any book I have always found that Used from Amazon are still in good condition, and good value for money
> 
> In fact I've just ordered this book; I only know it from the reviews and description but it looks interesting -
> 'Mediterranean Cooking For Diabetics - Delicious Dishes to Control or Avoid Diabetes' by Robin Ellis. About £8 used from Amazon
> 
> Go to your doctor or clinic and ask - in fact, insist - on an appointment with a dietician
> 
> Search YouTube for various aspects of D. Most of the recipes & meals will be American, and as with anything on YT you need to be a bit cautious, but they will give you some ideas on the things that can be done, and the approach to take


Zuludog
Yesterday I had to have bloods done. I told nurse I was concerned about partner, he has lost weight and does not need to lose any more. She booked an appt with DN in 2 weeks time. I will definitely be going in with him and will be asking a lot of questions. We don't have a dietician at our surgery.


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## rebrascora

welshy1 said:


> Zuludog
> Yesterday I had to have bloods done. I told nurse I was concerned about partner, he has lost weight and does not need to lose any more. She booked an appt with DN in 2 weeks time. I will definitely be going in with him and will be asking a lot of questions. We don't have a dietician at our surgery.



I doubt any surgery has a dietician. They tend to be based at the hospitals and you can ask to be referred for an out patient appointment with them via the DN


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## grovesy

Here they used to do some clinics at GP surgeries but that was many years ago.


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## zuludog

rebrascora said:


> I doubt any surgery has a dietician. They tend to be based at the hospitals and you can ask to be referred for an out patient appointment with them via the DN



Perhaps I wasn't clear, and I apologise
I didn't mean to imply that your surgery would have a dietician, though the DSN would be able to give you a brief outline

By 'an appointment with a dietician' I meant a referral to a dietician at a hospital

Such an appointment would be good, and you will probably get a load of leaflets, but in practice you will also need to do a fair amount of homework and managing for yourself


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## Jodee

welshy1 said:


> I know this is a silly question, but I don't know what to do. I am hopingly doing ok with  lowering my partners carb intake. He isn't eating much  every day. I do cook meat or fish for him every day. As you all know that is low in fat. What can I get to make his fat intake per day higher. I am finding it difficult still. I am so grateful for all your help since joining here last week. He is eating the right food, but not a lot of it, I want to make sure he does not feel hungry. What are the best things I could buy to help him.



Butter on Burgen Bread / toast, cream in coffee full fat milk in tea.  Cheese,  grated on vegetables delicious as well as on toast or in a sandwich or on a cracker


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## Jodee

@Anitram @welshy1 

The Desmond course referral through diabetic nurse or GP.  The xpert Diabetes course is self referral, both in my experience have a dietician with information on diet.  The xpert diabetes course you get a very helpful book.

https://www.xperthealth.org.uk/


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## grovesy

Jodee said:


> @Anitram @welshy1
> 
> The Desmond course referral through diabetic nurse or GP.  The xpert Diabetes course is self referral, both in my experience have a dietician with information on diet.  The xpert diabetes course you get a very helpful book.
> 
> https://www.xperthealth.org.uk/


These courses are not always offered in all areas.


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## welshy1

Grovesy, Jodee, Anitram
When I was in with nurse yesterday I told her I was concerned about partners diet. She told me the DN had referred him  for support, that's all she told me, may takes weeks to hear from them she said. What would the support be, would it be something like you have just mentioned. The Desmond course, we were not told anything at all by the DN.


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## welshy1

Jodee said:


> Butter on Burgen Bread / toast, cream in coffee full fat milk in tea.  Cheese,  grated on vegetables delicious as well as on toast or in a sandwich or on a cracker


I think I am going to have a look for Burgen bread.


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## welshy1

Grovesy, Anitram
A silly question I know but I will ask. 
I guess you all have control of your cholesterol. I noticed quite a lot of the good stuff we can eat has saturates, is that ok to have saturates.


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## welshy1

Anitram
What exactly is the XPERT course. Sorry to ask so many questions.


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## welshy1

What happens at the XPERT course, quite a long course.


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## welshy1

CathyB said:


> I cut all potatoes, rice, pasta and only have a little low carb Burgen bread, I also spike with berries where others are fine, the only fruit I can have is 2 small apples as long as they are spread over the day.  I love my diet now, I eat chilli or curry sometimes with cauliflower rice but sometimes just on its own, I love a tasty stir fry or a fresh salad with avocado, a favourite is cottage pie topped with mashed cauliflower and sprinkled with cheese
> If you go low carb you can go higher in good fats, butter, cream, olive oil, Greek yoghurt is a yummy treat.  I also have sugar free jelly as a sweet treat .  I often go to my daughters for a roast, I just don’t have the spuds and she always does plenty of cabbage, broccoli & cauliflower so I always leave feeling stuffed!!  I love a juicy steak topped with garlic mushrooms and served with cauliflower cheese (no milk or flour)......the list is endless.......I’m hungry now


CathyB
I fancy making him a nice curry. What is the best way around doing a healthy one.


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## welshy1

Thank you
I hope you get a lot of help with this course. I am sure it will be very educational for you.
I will take a look on the site.


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## grovesy

As with everything else the Desmond Course, or Expert course, varies from place to place. They are types of Education course for Type 2 Diabetics. The reports of how helpful they are vary too!


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## Drummer

Do be aware that life expectancy is not increased by having low LDL cholesterol, rather the reverse, and women get older with higher rather than lower cholesterol.
That is the thing about all the data being collected these days it is showing up a lot of dietary advice as being wrong.
A swift trawl through sites such as that for BMJ open can be rather eye opening. 
Advice such as do not insist that people avoid saturated fats is now being distributed, as avoiding saturated fat means missing out on important nutrients.


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## Ralph-YK

Jodee said:


> @Anitram @welshy1The Desmond course referral through diabetic nurse or GP.  The xpert Diabetes course is self referral, both in my experience have a dietician with information on diet.  The xpert diabetes course you get a very helpful book.


On the Desmond I did, we got a bit 'reminder' of the healthy eating for the general population; nothing for us diabetics. That's the best that could be said on the food front.
I've not got to do Xpert.


grovesy said:


> These courses are not always offered in all areas.


Some areas have Desmond (mine for one); some have Xpert (neighbouring are used to have it till 4 years ago); other area have their own provision. Cost can be a consideration.

Desmond is 2 sessions of 2 (or 2& half) hours. Xpert is 6, about the same length.
My area is supposed to have a Carbohydrates Awareness session (seperate to Desmond). It's  not promoted and doesn't actually run. Xpert includes it I believe.


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## belugalad

Services and classes vary I would imagine,teh Desmond course wasn't of any great help to me and I wonder if


welshy1 said:


> Grovesy, Jodee, Anitram
> When I was in with nurse yesterday I told her I was concerned about partners diet. She told me the DN had referred him  for support, that's all she told me, may takes weeks to hear from them she said. What would the support be, would it be something like you have just mentioned. The Desmond course, we were not told anything at all by the DN.



Yes I should think you have been referred to a Desmond course,I was diagnosed in a May and went on one about a month ago,your partner can get a list of questions written on a pad at home then he can ask those at the course and they will answer them for him,tell him not to worry about the course,it's done in a relaxed atmosphere I think there was about 10 people in total at mine and all of those people were new to this,the information that I have used to help with my T2 has come from the forums on this site,which has been great for tips a chat and a lot of support that propped me up on the days that I felt a bit low.
It takes a little time to adjust to different a way of life,I found that foods that I had previously eaten gave me the feel good factor and at times were an emotional crutch and so they were missed to begin with,but I'm feeling pretty good now with my journey on low carbs considering I have cut out so many foods,it's good to lose weight and feel healthy though.
Your partner will get there in the end,I used to cope poorly with change but I've embraced it now.


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## zuludog

welshy1 said:


> CathyB
> I fancy making him a nice curry. What is the best way around doing a healthy one.



Go to the home page of Diabetes UK and use the Search box for 'diabetic curry'. There are several recipes
You could do a similar Search on YouTube


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## welshy1

belugalad said:


> Services and classes vary I would imagine,teh Desmond course wasn't of any great help to me and I wonder if
> 
> 
> Yes I should think you have been referred to a Desmond course,I was diagnosed in a May and went on one about a month ago,your partner can get a list of questions written on a pad at home then he can ask those at the course and they will answer them for him,tell him not to worry about the course,it's done in a relaxed atmosphere I think there was about 10 people in total at mine and all of those people were new to this,the information that I have used to help with my T2 has come from the forums on this site,which has been great for tips a chat and a lot of support that propped me up on the days that I felt a bit low.
> It takes a little time to adjust to different a way of life,I found that foods that I had previously eaten gave me the feel good factor and at times were an emotional crutch and so they were missed to begin with,but I'm feeling pretty good now with my journey on low carbs considering I have cut out so many foods,it's good to lose weight and feel healthy though.
> Your partner will get there in the end,I used to cope poorly with change but I've embraced it now.


belugalad
Thanks for the help.
He is  on a bit of a bad day today. He hasn't ate  as much today, hopefully tomorrow will be a better day for him.


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## welshy1

zuludog said:


> Go to the home page of Diabetes UK and use the Search box for 'diabetic curry'. There are several recipes
> You could do a similar Search on YouTube


Zuludog
I will have a look on there thanks.


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## zuludog

welshy1 said:


> Hi zuludog
> Thanks for the info on spuds.
> I am really srtuggling at moment to prepare good food. Just had our lunch. It was bland and boring. I am steaming veg broccoli and green beans. I cooked chicken in oven in foil, I had fish  cooked same way. But there is no taste in anything. I am going to have to find something to make the food tasty. I did look at some recipes earlier. I am going to try cottage pie with carrot mash that sounds really tasty.



Hello Welshy, sorry for the delay in replying

I've known for years that Diabetes UK has lots of useful information and advice, but it's only just really sunk in to me that they have recipes as well
If you are still 'struggling to prepare good food' go to Diabetes UK Home Page and Search for 'meals' and 'recipes' There are loads of ideas including meal plans


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## welshy1

I haven't had a good day with the food today. Need to get a bit of fresh stuff in I think. I use frozen fish, is that as good as using fresh.


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## CathyB

welshy1 said:


> CathyB
> I fancy making him a nice curry. What is the best way around doing a healthy one.


There are two that I make, if it’s chicken I use full fat coconut milk, I include a small onion, asparagus, red pepper and mushrooms, I tend to blend my own spices.  If it’s beef I use tinned tomato, small onion, red pepper


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## welshy1

CathyB said:


> There are two that I make, if it’s chicken I use full fat coconut milk, I include a small onion, asparagus, red pepper and mushrooms, I tend to blend my own spices.  If it’s beef I use tinned tomato, small onion, red pepper


CathyB
Thanks for suggestions. I might just try one lol


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## welshy1

What do you use to thicken ii up Cathy, or is it quite a thick consistency.


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## Jodee

I'd say the xpert diabetes course is much more informative about diets, (Its self referral see link above) talking of low carbs, Keto etc and other biological aspects of course, dangers of uncontrolled BG levels etc.


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## Jodee

Drummer said:


> Do be aware that life expectancy is not increased by having low LDL cholesterol, rather the reverse, and women get older with higher rather than lower cholesterol.
> That is the thing about all the data being collected these days it is showing up a lot of dietary advice as being wrong.
> A swift trawl through sites such as that for BMJ open can be rather eye opening.
> Advice such as do not insist that people avoid saturated fats is now being distributed, as avoiding saturated fat means missing out on important nutrients.


Drummer can you link me to the bit about cholesterol in women LDL age etc please?


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## welshy1

Just had my carbs & cals pocket counter and the low carb cookbook for beginners  books delivered from amazon. Going to have a good look through them see what I can cook up.


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## Jodee

Ralph-YK said:


> On the Desmond I did, we got a bit 'reminder' of the healthy eating for the general population; nothing for us diabetics. That's the best that could be said on the food front.
> I've not got to do Xpert.
> 
> Some areas have Desmond (mine for one); some have Xpert (neighbouring are used to have it till 4 years ago); other area have their own provision. Cost can be a consideration.
> 
> Desmond is 2 sessions of 2 (or 2& half) hours. Xpert is 6, about the same length.
> My area is supposed to have a Carbohydrates Awareness session (seperate to Desmond). It's  not promoted and doesn't actually run. Xpert includes it I believe.



I suspect it varies from Post Code to Post Code Ralph, on mine we have a dietician on our course, she spoke of all the fats, the carbs, portion size etc, what happens if you eat too many, what happens if you eat processed foods, smoothies and fruit juices not recommended etc as these are quickly processed into glucose, much quicker than eating the whole fruit and unprocessed vegetables etc.  I think the xpert diabetes course is more comprehensive and currently it is being said that low fat diets are not good and if on Keto, very low carb diet full fats and protetin are so important with each meal, also animal full fat milk in quantity is not good either.  Currently low carbs rather than no carbs is recommended and also the Mediterranean diet.


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## welshy1

Just have to wait to find out now what support he is having, hopefully it won't be too long to wait.


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## Jodee

welshy1 said:


> I haven't had a good day with the food today. Need to get a bit of fresh stuff in I think. I use frozen fish, is that as good as using fresh.



Frozen fish is fine if its fresh frozen without batter sauces etc, just the fish.


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## welshy1

Yes it's just frozen fish with no sauces or batters. I buy it , as it is cheaper than fresh fish.


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## belugalad

welshy1 said:


> Yes it's just frozen fish with no sauces or batters. I buy it , as it is cheaper than fresh fish.


I have read a lot of what people feel is "Fresh fish"has previously been frozen(read the small print on packaging),so buying frozen ironically maybe fresher


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## Drummer

Jodee said:


> Drummer can you link me to the bit about cholesterol in women LDL age etc please?


I have not got the link - I did make a copy of the conclusion, though. I have copied that for you.
cholesterol
Abstract from bmjopen.bmj.com
Lack of an association or an inverse association between low-density-lipoprotein cholesterol and mortality in the elderly: a systematic review

Objective It is well known that total cholesterol becomes less of a risk factor or not at all for all-cause and cardiovascular (CV) mortality with increasing age, but as little is known as to whether low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C), one component of total cholesterol, is associated with mortality in the elderly, we decided to investigate this issue.
Setting, participants and outcome measures We sought PubMed for cohort studies, where LDL-C had been investigated as a risk factor for all-cause and/or CV mortality in individuals ≥60 years from the general population.
Results We identified 19 cohort studies including 30 cohorts with a total of 68 094 elderly people, where all-cause mortality was recorded in 28 cohorts and CV mortality in 9 cohorts. Inverse association between all-cause mortality and LDL-C was seen in 16 cohorts (in 14 with statistical significance) representing 92% of the number of participants, where this association was recorded. In the rest, no association was found. In two cohorts, CV mortality was highest in the lowest LDL-C quartile and with statistical significance; in seven cohorts, no association was found.
Conclusions High LDL-C is inversely associated with mortality in most people over 60 years. This finding is inconsistent with the cholesterol hypothesis (ie, that cholesterol, particularly LDL-C, is inherently atherogenic). Since elderly people with high LDL-C live as long or longer than those with low LDL-C, our analysis provides reason to question the validity of the cholesterol hypothesis. Moreover, our study provides the rationale for a re-evaluation of guidelines recommending pharmacological reduction of LDL-C in the elderly as a component of cardiovascular disease prevention strategies.


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## Ralph-YK

Jodee said:


> I suspect it varies from Post Code to Post Code Ralph


So I gather (or rather ccg/NHS Trust area/GP groups.  In some area it's the GP practices that pay I think, so they influence.  As in Leeds are doing 3 sessions with their own provision, over the 6 when they had Xpert. I missed doing the Xpert)


Jodee said:


> on mine we have a dietician on our course, she spoke of all the fats, the carbs, portion size etc, what happens if you eat too many, what happens if you eat processed foods, smoothies and fruit juices not recommended etc as these are quickly processed into glucose, much quicker than eating the whole fruit and unprocessed vegetables etc.


Sounds good. You must of lost some of the stuff mine did. They included a little on fats for diet. And talked a lot about fats and artieries.


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## Jodee

Drummer said:


> I have not got the link - I did make a copy of the conclusion, though. I have copied that for you.
> cholesterol
> Abstract from bmjopen.bmj.com
> Lack of an association or an inverse association between low-density-lipoprotein cholesterol and mortality in the elderly: a systematic review
> 
> Objective It is well known that total cholesterol becomes less of a risk factor or not at all for all-cause and cardiovascular (CV) mortality with increasing age, but as little is known as to whether low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C), one component of total cholesterol, is associated with mortality in the elderly, we decided to investigate this issue.
> Setting, participants and outcome measures We sought PubMed for cohort studies, where LDL-C had been investigated as a risk factor for all-cause and/or CV mortality in individuals ≥60 years from the general population.
> Results We identified 19 cohort studies including 30 cohorts with a total of 68 094 elderly people, where all-cause mortality was recorded in 28 cohorts and CV mortality in 9 cohorts. Inverse association between all-cause mortality and LDL-C was seen in 16 cohorts (in 14 with statistical significance) representing 92% of the number of participants, where this association was recorded. In the rest, no association was found. In two cohorts, CV mortality was highest in the lowest LDL-C quartile and with statistical significance; in seven cohorts, no association was found.
> Conclusions High LDL-C is inversely associated with mortality in most people over 60 years. This finding is inconsistent with the cholesterol hypothesis (ie, that cholesterol, particularly LDL-C, is inherently atherogenic). Since elderly people with high LDL-C live as long or longer than those with low LDL-C, our analysis provides reason to question the validity of the cholesterol hypothesis. Moreover, our study provides the rationale for a re-evaluation of guidelines recommending pharmacological reduction of LDL-C in the elderly as a component of cardiovascular disease prevention strategies.




Many thanks Drummer that's very interesting.


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## CathyB

welshy1 said:


> What do you use to thicken ii up Cathy, or is it quite a thick consistency.


With the tomato based one it thickens automatically as you simmer, the coconut milk one doesn’t so I just eat it as it is


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## welshy1

CathyB said:


> With the tomato based one it thickens automatically as you simmer, the coconut milk one doesn’t so I just eat it as it is


 I want to have a go at your recipe At the moment my partner is not eating much. He is losing weight and is finding it difficult to eat  all of the meal that I make him. I know his stomach is shrinking, but he is not overweight. The DN said to lose weight he is only 10st 8lbs. I will definitely having  a lot to say to DN in 2 weeks, I have just been writing a lot of questions down ready, so I don't forget.


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## welshy1

He has lost half a stone so far.


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## CathyB

Half a stone is a great result!  You are obviously doing something right.  If you find the chicken one too runny, you can add cauliflower rice, rather than have it as a side, put it in the curry and it willl thicken it up without adding anything carby


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## welshy1

I buy the 4 individual pack pkts of cauli rice. Every time I use it, I just microwave it, it always tastes a bit bland.


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## CathyB

welshy1 said:


> I buy the 4 individual pack pkts of cauli rice. Every time I use it, I just microwave it, it always tastes a bit bland.


There is SO much you can do with it, try frying a small onion, garlic, chopped pepper, asparagus & mushrooms, then add the rice and season with anything you like, I love spicy food so might add Cajun spice or a teaspoon of whole grain mustard......yummy!


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## welshy1

CathyB
You are making me feel hungry.


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