# Prepare for a low-key Christmas, England Covid experts warn



## Northerner (Nov 17, 2020)

People should prepare for a low-key Christmas, or even one spent outdoors, public health experts have said, because the second lockdown might not significantly suppress the rate of coronavirus infections.

Officials and ministers are still awaiting key data on the effectiveness of the four-week restrictions imposed across England, meaning a promised update to parliament on the next steps is unlikely to happen before late next week.

Scientists said that while they accepted the economic need for shops and hospitality businesses to reopen before the crucial festive season, the advent of seemingly effective vaccines meant people could consider postponing big family get-togethers.

“We really have to be careful that we don’t just focus on what is going to happen in six weeks’ time,” said Prof Catherine Noakes, a member of the government’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage), who was speaking to the Guardian in a personal capacity.









						Ban household-mixing and travel between tiers after lockdown, BMA urges
					

Doctor’s organisation says without tough action NHS will be overwhelmed by Covid patients




					www.theguardian.com


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## Vonny (Nov 17, 2020)

Hey ho, looks like our small family (3 of us) will be eating the remains of the turkey crown for months. Had to order a fairly decent sized one just in case, as I've never knowingly under-catered for friends and extended family in my life


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## Drummer (Nov 17, 2020)

I had an appointment in Poole High Street this afternoon, and so many businesses are gone, the shops are empty or deserted/abandoned. I am sure that there will be recovery, particularly once the various vaccines begin to make a difference - but things are certainly going to be different for the rest of my lifetime, and there will be long lasting changes to how we live and work.


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## nonethewiser (Nov 17, 2020)

Northerner said:


> People should prepare for a low-key Christmas



No problem there, low key every year with not much fuss, overexaggerated & overhyped time of year.

Bah humbug


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## KARNAK (Nov 17, 2020)

I ordered a four legged turkey from the local butchers, had a phone call
this morning from the butchers he said sorry Ted can`t supply your turkey.
I said but I`ve arranged Christmas dinner for quite a few family & friends
what`s the problem? sheepishly he whispered because we can`t catch
the bleeding (would have been a bleep normally) the thing its too fast.

Welcome to lockdown.


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## mikeyB (Nov 18, 2020)

I’m with @nonethewiser on this. And Scrooge. A low key Christmas is normal for us, apart from the excess insulin use. My guess is a meal at daughter’s then home before they have to do their duty with son-in-law’s enormous extended family. I’d just fall asleep, I do that rather a lot these days.

I also hate turkey. Foreign bird. A couple of Quail would do for me, and taste of something.

Right, that’s my annual grump over


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## Eddy Edson (Nov 18, 2020)

Christmas ... bah humbug!


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## grovesy (Nov 18, 2020)

We never have grand Xmas anyway. Having  had to work many Xmases, in the past , I don't give it much thought.


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## Annemarie (Nov 18, 2020)

So much in the press/ TV at missing our usual Christmas events, get togethers but we are a multicultural society yet Eid and Diwali passed without comment except when the rules were ignored which I know is already planned by some families for December 25th. With that attitude I don’t see how Christmas lockdown/limited numbers could possibly be enforced


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## Lucy Honeychurch (Nov 18, 2020)

There's just us and the mum in law so no different for us.


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## Ljc (Nov 18, 2020)

I am with @nonethewiser and @Eddy Edson here.  Their  is only the two of us, we haven’t had a traditional for some years and won’t be having one this year either. I do normally get some treats in. 

The way things are going round here we may still be in so called lock down at Christmas, 
Swale which is not very far from me , according to our local radio atm has the highest % rate of Corvid in the country, my area Thanet is 15th , we’re told it’s due to some shops interpreting the rules  to suit themselves ie opening when they shouldn’t be, and people not wearing face coverings in enclosed areas and keeping there distance.


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## Northerner (Nov 18, 2020)

Must admit, I think this talk about a '5-day break' for Christmas, allowing more mixing, sounds really dangerous  It's not just the meeting-up, it's all the movement around the country that takes place, giving opportunity for people to take infections across borders, on transport and in public places. And you can't tell me that people who are given 5 days for Christmas won't then want 5 days for New Year just a week later  Personally, I wouldn't want to give an elderly relative a hug, thinking I might kill them  People celebrate Christmas these days because of the holiday they normally get - I always remember the scheming people would go to to insert a few holiday days in between the statutory ones so they could have a fortnight off. It would be better if the government set aside a future period to shift that holiday to, when things were under control.


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## Thebearcametoo (Nov 18, 2020)

We’re a mixed celebratory family (none of us religious as such but have different upbringings) so will be doing both Hanukkah and Christmas with just us this year instead of seeing various family. Even if lockdown is lifted I don’t think people travelling and staying overnight is a good idea. We are normally quite sociable over the season and will miss our big gatherings but it’s just one year and we’ll make up for it once it’s safe.


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## Lanny (Nov 18, 2020)

Northerner said:


> It would be better if the government set aside a future period to shift that holiday to, when things were under control.


That’s a really good idea! 

Then, everybody can join in & enjoy themselves guilt free! Christmas is most likely not the correct time, many historians say, anyway & so what if it’s moved to another time after vaccines have been administered so, we’re that bit safer & less dangerous to others! 



Northerner said:


> Personally, I wouldn't want to give an elderly relative a hug, thinking I might kill them


That really puts a different spin on things!


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## nonethewiser (Nov 18, 2020)

Northerner said:


> Must admit, I think this talk about a '5-day break' for Christmas, allowing more mixing, sounds really dangerous  It's not just the meeting-up, it's all the movement around the country that takes place, giving opportunity for people to take infections across borders, on transport and in public places. And you can't tell me that people who are given 5 days for Christmas won't then want 5 days for New Year just a week later



Did you not here Northie, virus is taking 5 day break to allow folk to enjoy Christmas together.


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## pm133 (Nov 18, 2020)

Leaving Christmas aside, I am looking forward to getting back to a time when the majority of our population weren't absolutely petrifed of their own shadow as regards covid.
Decades from now when this is all a distant memory, it's the mass panicking which will stay with me. It's incredibly frustrating to have to be around that all the time.


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## Northerner (Nov 19, 2020)

pm133 said:


> Leaving Christmas aside, I am looking forward to getting back to a time when the majority of our population weren't absolutely petrifed of their own shadow as regards covid.
> Decades from now when this is all a distant memory, it's the mass panicking which will stay with me. It's incredibly frustrating to have to be around that all the time.


It is hard to put things in perspective sometimes. Depends how risk-averse you are, I suppose. I think the (English) government have taken the tack of trying to instil fear rather than encourage compliance, and have lost all trust. That was brought home to me by a Sky News graph yesterday which showed how there was a big surge in people going out in English cities just before the English lockdown, yet barely a flicker when tough restrictions were brought in in Glasgow - there is greater trust and compliance in Sturgeon.


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## grovesy (Nov 19, 2020)

I am sick of the government trying to over promise and using useless terms such as Covid Safe environments.


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## pm133 (Nov 19, 2020)

Northerner said:


> It is hard to put things in perspective sometimes. Depends how risk-averse you are, I suppose. I think the (English) government have taken the tack of trying to instil fear rather than encourage compliance, and have lost all trust. That was brought home to me by a Sky News graph yesterday which showed how there was a big surge in people going out in English cities just before the English lockdown, yet barely a flicker when tough restrictions were brought in in Glasgow - there is greater trust and compliance in Sturgeon.


It's worth remembering that relatively few people are even getting covid. Most of them are asymptomatic and only a tiny fraction require hospitalisation and only a fraction of those will die. People really should be able to step back, look at the numbers and stop engaging in mass hysteria. This isn't ebola or the black death.

There's far too much melodrama all round, not helped by the deeply patronising "Don't kill Granny" nonsense.

Anyway, that's my rant over for the day.


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## Thebearcametoo (Nov 19, 2020)

pm133 said:


> It's worth remembering that relatively few people are even getting covid. Most of them are asymptomatic and only a tiny fraction require hospitalisation and only a fraction of those will die. People really should be able to step back, look at the numbers and stop engaging in mass hysteria. This isn't ebola or the black death.
> 
> There's far too much melodrama all round, not helped by the deeply patronising "Don't kill Granny" nonsense.
> 
> Anyway, that's my rant over for the day.


But those of us who know people who have died would rather not be the ones to spread it to others ‍♀️ I’m delighted for you if you don’t personally know anyone who has died or been seriously ill with it but I am worried about my friends who are currently seriously ill with it. And most of the people I know have got it recently not back in March/April. So I will be continuing to do my part of not spreading it if at all possible.


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## Northerner (Nov 19, 2020)

pm133 said:


> It's worth remembering that relatively few people are even getting covid. Most of them are asymptomatic and only a tiny fraction require hospitalisation and only a fraction of those will die. People really should be able to step back, look at the numbers and stop engaging in mass hysteria. This isn't ebola or the black death.
> 
> There's far too much melodrama all round, not helped by the deeply patronising "Don't kill Granny" nonsense.
> 
> Anyway, that's my rant over for the day.


It's the potential consequences of contracting it that govern my behaviour. I'm healthy, but do tick several boxes that would raise my risk of a poor outcome - even if I didn't die, I don't want to spend the remainder of my life with significant long-term effects from long-Covid. So even though the risk of catching it may be small, I weigh what I do and consider 'would it be worth it?'. I remember when I was diagnosed they wanted to give me an angiogram as they suspected a heart attack. I had to sign a consent form as there was a one in 200 possibility of severe brain injury - that didn't sound like great odds to me, particularly as practically everyone on the wards I had been on had had one, so a common procedure. I went ahead and (hopefully obviously!) suffered no problems. However, I learn that there might be one in 80 of us who have the virus (not sure of the most up to date number) it informs my decision whether to go to the shop for some eggs, for example, or go on a bus for a change of scenery - I don't have to do those things, so I choose not to


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## pm133 (Nov 19, 2020)

Thebearcametoo said:


> But those of us who know people who have died would rather not be the ones to spread it to others ‍♀️ I’m delighted for you if you don’t personally know anyone who has died or been seriously ill with it but I am worried about my friends who are currently seriously ill with it. And most of the people I know have got it recently not back in March/April. So I will be continuing to do my part of not spreading it if at all possible.


It's not about whether I personally know people who have contracted it or died from it (and I haven't actually made a comment either way on that). It's about stepping back and considering the risk rationally. Being personally affected or not doesn't change that.


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## pm133 (Nov 19, 2020)

Northerner said:


> It's the potential consequences of contracting it that govern my behaviour. I'm healthy, but do tick several boxes that would raise my risk of a poor outcome - even if I didn't die, I don't want to spend the remainder of my life with significant long-term effects from long-Covid. So even though the risk of catching it may be small, I weigh what I do and consider 'would it be worth it?'. I remember when I was diagnosed they wanted to give me an angiogram as they suspected a heart attack. I had to sign a consent form as there was a one in 200 possibility of severe brain injury - that didn't sound like great odds to me, particularly as practically everyone on the wards I had been on had had one, so a common procedure. I went ahead and (hopefully obviously!) suffered no problems. However, I learn that there might be one in 80 of us who have the virus (not sure of the most up to date number) it informs my decision whether to go to the shop for some eggs, for example, or go on a bus for a change of scenery - I don't have to do those things, so I choose not to


I'm with you on that last sentence. Anything which allows me to avoid shops or public transport is fine by me


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## trophywench (Nov 19, 2020)

Trouble is with not giving elderly relatives a hug - some elderly relatives are blooming well missing them!!

We happen to know a chap who is well over 6ft and even with me in high heels, the top of my head is still well below his chin, hence when we meet - he and I have always hugged rather than kissed.  I commented in July when considering risking meeting folk we know again soon (outdoors I stress)  - I won't know how to react should Ian be there - not hugging him and being hugged is simply an alien concept.  It's carrying everything a bit too far for me - come on - we can all avoid breathing on each other whilst hugging and then moving back away as adults, surely?  And also avoid meeting anyone indoors as much as possible unless it's medical !  Seeing nursie for blood test next Friday for GP diabetes check, different nursie doing the GP annual D review on 18 Dec.  Can you harbour Covid on your feet??


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## Northerner (Nov 19, 2020)

trophywench said:


> Can you harbour Covid on your feet??


You're OK as long as you don't put your foot in your mouth


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## Northerner (Nov 19, 2020)

pm133 said:


> I'm with you on that last sentence. Anything which allows me to avoid shops or public transport is fine by me


It's an easier decision to make than whether I 'bolus for a biscuit'!


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## trophywench (Nov 19, 2020)

Northerner said:


> You're OK as long as you don't put your foot in your mouth



Never do that now - I'm simply not that flexible any more Northie!  So I reckon Judy's safe with me then ......


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## mikeydt1 (Nov 20, 2020)

if we only have 5 days to celebrate this would only take us up to the 30th what happens to new years eve and day?

i am not really bothered as my family have passed on so will be just a normal day for me and has been for the last few years.


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## Sally71 (Nov 20, 2020)

I haven’t seen my parents since February or my brother since last Christmas, it's a 3 hour drive to get to them, I don’t really care what days we get it would be nice if we could just see them for a day or two at some point.


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