# Help



## Marie Parker (Mar 5, 2010)

Sorry if i sound thick here, but i have always been advised to have complex carbs with every meal, i now detect that this is contrary to what i should be doing!!!!!!

Can someone enlighten me pretty please x


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## wallycorker (Mar 5, 2010)

Hi Marie,

In my opinion, the advice of "do not test" and "eat plenty of starchy carbohydrate" that is so often given to Type 2s is very poor indeed. Crazy advice in fact! By following that advice my non-insulin dependent Type 2 condition continued to worsen over an eight year period.

Once I started testing and found that it was the starchy carbohydrates - i.e. cereals (including porridge), bread, potatoes, pasta, rice, pizza etc - that were causing the problems - and it was those that I needed to cut back on - then my situation improved quite dramatically. In fact, very quickly indeed. 

My story and current diet is all well documented in other threads in this forum. If you wish to take a look at any of it just search for "reversal".

Best wishes - John


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## Marie Parker (Mar 5, 2010)

Hi John, 

I read ur post with interest and also signed ur petition 

Where do I start, and how do I find out and work out carbs i should be eating? 

I started the day with fruit and fibre this morning - I now know i shouldnt have lol

I am planning on soup and yogurt for lunch and fish, butternut squash chips and salad for dinner.  Will have fruit if i need anything else.  How does that sound?

Thanks for the reply and any advice x


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## Andy HB (Mar 5, 2010)

Hi Marie,

I second what wally corker says, but with a caveat. I'm a diet & exercise controlled type 2 (was on gliclazide and then metformin, but no longer). For me, I have no problem with eating complex carbohydrates with every meal (and I usually start the day with porridge). However, this may not be OK for you, just as low-carbing may not be for you either! It all boils down to you.

The key is to initially test, test, test and work out what works for you and what doesn't (there are plenty of people here who can advise you further, once you have a few readings to show them).

Oh, by the way, how you test is dependent on whether you need insulin or not (if you need insulin, then ignore me 'cos I know nuffin about that yet).

Andy


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## Marie Parker (Mar 5, 2010)

Thanks Andy x I am on 4 x 500mg of metformin a day, I was diagnosed about 4 yrs ago but recently due to a lot of things including depression things have deteriorated.  I am now on a cholestoral tablet a day and at the nurse on Tuesday the lower number of my bp was raised, I am due at the doc for my blood results on the 15th of this month!


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## Marie Parker (Mar 5, 2010)

Thanks Andy x I am on 4 x 500mg of metformin a day, I was diagnosed about 4 yrs ago but recently due to a lot of things including depression things have deteriorated.  I am now on a cholestoral tablet a day and at the nurse on Tuesday the lower number of my bp was raised, I am due at the doc for my blood results on the 15th of this month!

My fasting bs was 11.1 this morning and currently readings are between 10 and 15 x


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## thedame (Mar 5, 2010)

Hi Marie (chasing you around the forum today

Just wanted to jump in about the cholesterol tablet. My diabetic specialist put me on these a couple of years back - I was surprised as my cholesterol level is quite low (one of my few assets ). He told me that research had shown that offering cholesterol meds alongside Metformin can have a protective affect on the arteries. Might be worth asking your GP to explain a bit more next time you see him?

By the way, I too seem to tolerate carbs but I am open to a bit of fine tuning so I am currently having a "test" day each week to monitor the effect of some different types of carbs (eg which of the several cereals I like has the least effect on my levels) rather than jumping in too fast and rocking my boat which has just steadied itself for the first time in years with new meds!


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## Marie Parker (Mar 5, 2010)

Thanks for ur replies guys, I think the key for me is to keep a food diary and a note of readings and become more aware of what goes on with my eating x


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## wallycorker (Mar 5, 2010)

Marie Parker said:


> ............Where do I start, and how do I find out and work out carbs i should be eating?
> 
> I started the day with fruit and fibre this morning - I now know i shouldnt have lol
> 
> I am planning on soup and yogurt for lunch and fish, butternut squash chips and salad for dinner.  Will have fruit if i need anything else.  How does that sound?............


Hi again Marie, 

I sorted out my condition without ever counting carbohydrates and only started doing that fairly recently. I'm not on what many people call a low-carbohydrate diet because I still eat quite a lot but almost all of it as fruit and vegetables - hardly any starchy carbohydrate at all. I wouldn't worry too much as to exactly how much you ought to eat - I'd just cut back on what you eat now - particularly on what you think might be problem foods. Myself, I hardly ever have any cereal or bread these days.

What you are planning having for lunch and dinner sound just fine as far as I am concerned.

Are you testing? If not, I do recommend that you do because that is really the only way that you will know what is happening to your blood glucose levels. 

Good luck and best wishes - John


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## wallycorker (Mar 5, 2010)

Marie Parker said:


> ..........I think the key for me is to keep a food diary and a note of readings and become more aware of what goes on with my eating.........


That's a great idea too! 

I've kept one for the last eighteen months. I record everything on it - i.e. what I eat, calories, carbs, bg readings and times in relation to food eaten, exercise taken etc, etc. It keeps me focussed on where I'm trying to get to.

John


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## Andy HB (Mar 5, 2010)

Eighteen month meal diary, John?! Crikey! I got fed up with it after just two. 

However, I'll start doing it again if my blood glucose levels start misbehaving or if I change my diet substantially. But will only do that alongside the blood testing as well.


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## sofaraway (Mar 5, 2010)

Andy HB said:


> Eighteen month meal diary, John?! Crikey! I got fed up with it after just two.



I can't last more than a week! 

Marie, I think a diary of what you are currently eating and blood glucose readings will show you where the main problems are. You can then work from there, making changes and seeing the affects, until you've worked out what types and portion sizes of carbs you can manage.


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## wallycorker (Mar 5, 2010)

Andy HB said:


> Eighteen month meal diary, John?! Crikey! I got fed up with it after just two.
> 
> However, I'll start doing it again if my blood glucose levels start misbehaving or if I change my diet substantially. But will only do that alongside the blood testing as well.


Yes - eighteen months on and I'm still not where I want to be despite having lost more than 5 stones and my last HbA1c being 5.1%. I still want both my weight and blood glucose control to be even lower and determined to get there.


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## shellyknees (Mar 6, 2010)

Andy HB said:


> Hi Marie,
> 
> I second what wally corker says, but with a caveat. I'm a diet & exercise controlled type 2 (was on gliclazide and then metformin, but no longer). For me, I have no problem with eating complex carbohydrates with every meal (and I usually start the day with porridge). However, this may not be OK for you, just as low-carbing may not be for you either! It all boils down to you.
> 
> ...


Hi! Andy HB, Shelly here.
I was diagnosed with type 2 about 2 years ago and have finally stopped messing around, being in denial and being angry and have accepted my lot. I am hoping to get to the stage where you are at where you do diet and exercise. I lost 3 and a half stone last year, still a fat bloater but now go regularly to the gym or do other exercise. I feel fab!
but Its taken me a long time to get to a diet that suits me and keeps my sugar levels at a stable nil ( I do wee test strips.) First of all when you talk about testing, do you do blood testing with those little meters or the same as me, if you do not mind me asking?
Secondly, I did not know that you can eat different carbs and test to find out how they affect your sugar levels. How do you do it?
I'm on a mixed diet following low gi and mediterranean, with plenty of fresh veg and a small amount of fruit, carbs like whole grain (Sphelt flour bread and cereals) I make my own bread so that I know what goes in it. Just been to the dietician who was pleased with my progress and was very encouraging but....
In two to three years time my partner and I want to sell up, buy a motor home and go round Europe exploring longterm and not come back to Blighty for at least 6 - 8 months.
It is essential that I fine tune my diet for me to be able to do this. At the moment I am on Metformin twice a day and Glamiparide once a day, with a cholesterol tablet. (dont know why im on that as my cholesterol level is very good.) and simvador for blood pressure. Is there hope for me at the end of the tunnel?


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## Andy HB (Mar 6, 2010)

shellyknees said:


> Hi! Andy HB, Shelly here.
> I was diagnosed with type 2 about 2 years ago and have finally stopped messing around, being in denial and being angry and have accepted my lot. I am hoping to get to the stage where you are at where you do diet and exercise. I lost 3 and a half stone last year, still a fat bloater but now go regularly to the gym or do other exercise. I feel fab!
> but Its taken me a long time to get to a diet that suits me and keeps my sugar levels at a stable nil ( I do wee test strips.) First of all when you talk about testing, do you do blood testing with those little meters or the same as me, if you do not mind me asking?
> Secondly, I did not know that you can eat different carbs and test to find out how they affect your sugar levels. How do you do it?
> ...



Hello Shelly,
I have a Bayer Contour blood glucose meter and have found that really easy to use. I have never used urine test strips on the basis that if my bg is OK I shouldn't be passing sugar (but that is still tested when I go for my HbA1c check - it hasn't been that long since I was diagnosed). I'd suggest that the blood meter is much more useful if you want to know how food affects you. The ideal bg ranges that I was told are 4-7mmol/l before meals and 7-9mmol/l 2hrs after.

I didn't test for specific carbs (but some people do here, they can advise you). I just ate normally (i.e. three meals a day --> unlike before diagnosis!) and did a single test each day (changing the time from day to day). If any given reading was too high, I went for a 30min walk and retested. 

Now this approach is fine if things are generally under control. If they're not then you'll probably have to test more frequently. When I stopped the metformin I tested myself before every meal and 2 hrs after every meal. Some people also recommend testing at 1hr after a meal (this is more likely to give you the bg spike reading for some types of carb). The problem with this approach is that the test strips are quite expensive (mine have been 50p a pop!). On that basis, your gp might not be too amenable to giving them to you on prescription. However, if you explain what you intend to do and how, the gp might be helpful (maybe!?).

Your diet sounds stonkingly good to me and your weight loss sounds excellent too (I am half way behind you there!). I have been very lucky with my diabetes, in that losing 1.5stone has improved my insulin resistance so much that I'm off the meds and my bg was just 4.7 yesterday morning, before breakfast. I cannot say whether you'll be the same, but losing weight is definitely a good way to improve diabetes control. Oh, by the way, I've found that exercise has also improved my blood pressure and resting heart rate (BP has dropped to 123/86 from 150/?? and resting heart rate is now just 53 from 80+).

My only problem is my liver (non-alcohol induced fatty liver) and cholesterol (last reading was 6.2). Interestingly I have avoided the statins, but will probably be under pressure to take them if it hasn't improved in a week or two when I go to see them next. But, I am confident that I'm getting to grips with this too (well we'll see about that one!).

There is definitely light at the end of the tunnel (and it doesn't necessarily have to be an oncoming train! ). It just takes a little consistent effort (which you already seem to be putting in).

Hope that helps and I hope anyone will correct any factual errors in my missive.

Andy


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