# English national anthem?



## robert@fm (Jan 13, 2016)

I just saw on BBC News that the idea of an English National Anthem (as opposed to the British National Anthem, which to my mind is funereal and uninspiring), as satirised in the classic Flanders And Swann song above over 50 years ago, is now being seriously mooted.

The leading suggestions appear to be _Jerusalem_ (the William Blake one, not the WI one) and _Land of Hope and Glory_. I don't really like either of these, but especially not the latter as the Nazional Affront used to sing it at their meetings, even though they clearly had no idea what the words meant. _Jerusalem_ at least has the advantage of that stunning Emerson Lake And Palmer arrangement, very suitable for stadium events. 

I think the choice should be _Heroes_ by David Bowie -- inspiring, uplifting and very English.  What does anyone else think?


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## robert@fm (Jan 13, 2016)

For those not familiar with ELP's _Jersualem_, here you go:


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## Northerner (Jan 13, 2016)

'Oh England, my lionheart' - Kate Bush


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## AlisonM (Jan 13, 2016)

Good luck. We seem to have been lumbered with either Scot's Wha Hae - depressing. Flower of Scotland - overdone ham. And worst of all, Hail Caledonia - indescribable. I'd rather pinch the Welsh saucepan song.


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## Lynn Davies (Jan 13, 2016)

Could only be Land of Hope and Glory.


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## Northerner (Jan 13, 2016)




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## khskel (Jan 13, 2016)

New England Billy Bragg. Not patriotic but I like. @robert I agree about ELP. Cracking arrangement.


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## trophywench (Jan 13, 2016)

I can't see (or hear) any of those, somehow I suddenly don't have Java, no idea why or how.  But as it isn't 'in' my Browser, I can't enable it.  I also can't download it cos it says my security settings won't let it.  I've tried to temporarily  disable the security, by unticking the relvant box in the Browser 'Tools'  'Internet Settings'   'Security'  - but it still says the Security won't let it load. 

Clueless.

Sorry - I don't know why anyone wouldn't want God to save our gracious Queen, I really don't!  OK so she's the monarch of Britain not just England - but I don't need to be just English above all else - why would I ?

Perhaps the opinion of English people who are likely to have it played for them - like athletes, footballers, etc - should be sought?  After all, why the hell do you see great big he-men wiping tears away when it's played for them? - because it makes them proud to be British.


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## robert@fm (Jan 13, 2016)

trophywench said:


> Sorry - I don't know why anyone wouldn't want God to save our gracious Queen


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## trophywench (Jan 14, 2016)

No idea what you mean by telling me again that an error has occurred and I need Java !

But at least just like all the others, it has a sad face as well !


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## robert@fm (Jan 14, 2016)

@trophywench: try visiting http://help.ea.com/en/article/java-help-and-information/  (the Java help page for games site Pogo). They say that Java is no longer supported in Chrome, and not properly supported in Firefox (although I have had no problems in my FF), but as you're IIRC using IE11 which they say has no problems, I don't know what to suggest except looking at those help pages.


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## Northerner (Jan 14, 2016)

Can't help with the IE11 problem Jenny, I haven't used IE for years now, I use Chrome. Regarding having a separate English anthem, I think it makes perfect sense for occasions where England is being represented as an individual country, perhaps it would help foreigners to understand that United Kingdom does not just equate with England


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## Andy HB (Jan 14, 2016)

Firstly, I don't think Jesus ever visited England (not least because it didn't exist when he was around). Secondly, I don't fancy having Jerusalem builded here. So Jerusalem is out.

Land of Hope and Glory is out because that should be kept only for the last night of the proms (plus it does not refer solely to England).

Let's just go with Beethoven's 9th symphony eh? 

Nah, on second thoughts, let's all just do the Birdy song. Upbeat and everybody knows the lyrics.

Andy


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## Robin (Jan 14, 2016)

Can't have Beethoven 9th! Ode to joy was used as a European anthem at one point ( not sure if it still is, I remember my choir being hired to sing it at some Euro shindig in London in the 70s.)
The Birdy song has lyrics? I thought it was just actions! Still, that would solve the problem of footballers mumbling the words to pretend they know them.


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## Andy HB (Jan 14, 2016)

Robin said:


> Can't have Beethoven 9th! Ode to joy was used as a European anthem at one point ( not sure if it still is, I remember my choir being hired to sing it at some Euro shindig in London in the 70s.)
> The Birdy song has lyrics? I thought it was just actions! Still, that would solve the problem of footballers mumbling the words to pretend they know them.



You need to get a grip of my 'sense of humour' (or lack thereof)! 

Andy


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## Robin (Jan 14, 2016)

Andy HB said:


> You need to get a grip of my 'sense of humour' (or lack thereof)!
> 
> Andy


Oops, being a bit slow this morning, I still think it would be a good idea for footballers.


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## trophywench (Jan 14, 2016)

Well for me, notwithstanding my previous comments, it would have to be something one could sing even if there were no music played, and no 'backing' vocals so although I love 'Heroes' I don't see how you could?


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## Northerner (Jan 14, 2016)

Someone help me please! Not suggesting it as an English anthem, but I'm trying to remember an acoustic song of the 1970s that had something to do with 'England'. It was sung by a guy with very long, straight hair and I have the name 'Gale' in my head but not sure if that has anything to do with it.

Anyone know who/what I'm talking about?


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## HOBIE (Jan 14, 2016)

robert@fm said:


> For those not familiar with ELP's _Jersualem_, here you go:


Either would do for me,  Thats Kate Bush or ELP


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## robert@fm (Jan 14, 2016)

Lynn Davies said:


> Could only be Land of Hope and Glory.


The trouble is that _Land of Hope and Glory_ goes beyond being just patriotic, to being somewhat fascist; the very first verse speaks of the nation's borders being expanded, which wouldn't go down very well with other countries, especially those which would lose territory to the expansion.  It also is ambiguous as to whether the nation it speaks of is England or Britain; so while it may be a good (more upbeat at least) replacement for _God Save the Queen_ (although the more modern _God Save the Queen_ may be a better one!), it's not very (if at all) good as a specifically _English_ national anthem.


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## Northerner (Jan 14, 2016)

Northerner said:


> Someone help me please! Not suggesting it as an English anthem, but I'm trying to remember an acoustic song of the 1970s that had something to do with 'England'. It was sung by a guy with very long, straight hair and I have the name 'Gale' in my head but not sure if that has anything to do with it.
> 
> Anyone know who/what I'm talking about?


Ha! I have remembered - Clifford T Ward and the song 'Home Thoughts From Abroad'. He also had a song 'Gaye', which is probably where I got the 'Gale' idea from!  Been driving me mad!


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## runner (Jan 14, 2016)

Northerner said:


> Someone help me please! Not suggesting it as an English anthem, but I'm trying to remember an acoustic song of the 1970s that had something to do with 'England'. It was sung by a guy with very long, straight hair and I have the name 'Gale' in my head but not sure if that has anything to do with it.
> 
> Anyone know who/what I'm talking about?


Clifford T Ward 'Gaye'.  A great wordsmith - are you thinking 'Home thought From Abroad'


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## runner (Jan 14, 2016)

Oops, sorry - didn't see you'd already solved the problem.  Great choice - I have 2 of his CDs. Although I do like  ELP.


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## trophywench (Jan 14, 2016)

I was just about to answer with Clifford etc, they came to see one of my sister's houses when they were selling it.  Had a little girl called Polly ISTR.  He was ill though, is he still alive?

Just looked - he had MS, died in 2001 aged 57.


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## runner (Jan 14, 2016)

Yes, his daughter has MS too - saw an interview with them on TV  - she was in a wheelchair and worked as a social worker.


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## runner (Jan 14, 2016)

Steeleye Span Hard times of Old England - appropriate for this present time.


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## Northerner (Jan 15, 2016)

Thanks for the info about Clifford  It just came to me suddenly after driving me potty for a couple of days  He was the age I am now when he died  Loved 'Gaye'


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## runner (Jan 15, 2016)

Yes, another one who bit the dust all too soon.  Don't worry Northe, you're a mere spring chicken!  If you liked Gaye, you'll probably like his other songs, especially being a wordsmith yourself .  I think he had a sly sense of humour too.


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