# Hello?!



## LCB (Jan 25, 2017)

Hopefully this is a really friendly site - so "hello everybody".  If it's really really friendly, then "hello every buddy" - I like wordplay )

I'm a 17 st long term type 2, holding my own inasmuch as I still have full sensitivity, though some side effects are hitting at my latest check-up, most worrying being my eyes.  This wake-up call has kicked me into doing something drastic, I could do with some help and advice... just need to find the help and advice section...


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## Northerner (Jan 25, 2017)

Hi LCB, welcome to the forum  Yes, we're friendly!  Please feel free to post your questions in the section you feel is appropriate - if you're not sure, post in the General Messageboard


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## Stitch147 (Jan 25, 2017)

Hi and welcome to the forum. We are a friendly bunch on here and wont bite (unless you ask nicely). Feel free to ask any questions and someone will be along with an answer for you.


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## Ljc (Jan 25, 2017)

Hi LCB, welcome to this friendly site. You will get a lot of info and support from the people here, I joined last April and have learned a lot.
You've already found the help and advise section, (don't worry I know what you mean, I'll give a link in a mo) just ask questions. 
Have you been provided with a glucose meter and test strips ,
For future reference this link to, useful links for those new to Diabetes, is in the pinned section of, newbies introduce yourself here forum 
https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/useful-links-for-people-new-to-diabetes.10406/


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## ChrisSamsDad (Jan 25, 2017)

LCB said:


> Hopefully this is a really friendly site - so "hello everybody".  If it's really really friendly, then "hello every buddy" - I like wordplay )
> 
> I'm a 17 st long term type 2, holding my own inasmuch as I still have full sensitivity, though some side effects are hitting at my latest check-up, most worrying being my eyes.  This wake-up call has kicked me into doing something drastic, I could do with some help and advice... just need to find the help and advice section...



Hi, Welcome - do you have anything in mind in particular? Losing weight, managing your blood glucose levels with diet, starting exercise, that sort of thing? All of these will help lower your blood glucose and reduce those symptoms. I was over 17 stone 9 months ago, and had rising BG levels, now I'm about 3 stone lighter, normal (non-diabetic) BG level, I run 3 miles almost every day, dance like no-one's watching and feel wonderful. I'm a bit of an evangelist for the LCHF diet (low carb / high fat) - reducing your carbohydrate intake is very important for type 2s as that is one of the things that immediately raises your BG.


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## LCB (Jan 25, 2017)

Hi all, what a lovely welcome; I already feel buddies is better than bodies... So quick to respond too.
I'm at work, so can't go into detail yet, but in a nutshell I've just started a zero carb diet last Sunday, yet my BG is anywhere between 6 and 8.5.  Weight seems to be falling fast (good thing) so I can only think my body is producing sugars from the fat.  I know there's no such thing a zero, without starvation, but last night's supper (main meal) was a total (by label) of less than 5g Carbohydrate.  BG rose overnight from 7 to 8.  So much fir no detail; back to work


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## grovesy (Jan 25, 2017)

Welcome.


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## Rosiecarmel (Jan 25, 2017)

ChrisSamsDad said:


> I try to keep my glycogen stores empty - by doing more exercise each day than my carb intake can provide calories for -  that helps keep your BG low as the 'holes' for it in your muscles is like a sponge for carbs, and I believe that keeping a low amount of glycogen in the liver has the effect of reducing the dawn phenomenon as well as generally losing weight.



Can you explain this a bit more? Not sure I quite understand it. Is it a good idea to keep glycogen stores empty? Even non diabetic people need glycogen stores


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## James 048 (Jan 25, 2017)

LCB said:


> Hopefully this is a really friendly site - so "hello everybody".  If it's really really friendly, then "hello every buddy" - I like wordplay )
> 
> I'm a 17 st long term type 2, holding my own inasmuch as I still have full sensitivity, though some side effects are hitting at my latest check-up, most worrying being my eyes.  This wake-up call has kicked me into doing something drastic, I could do with some help and advice... just need to find the help and advice section...


Hi LCB 
Warm welcome to the forum


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## Northerner (Jan 25, 2017)

Rosiecarmel said:


> Can you explain this a bit more? Not sure I quite understand it. Is it a good idea to keep glycogen stores empty? Even non diabetic people need glycogen stores


Not a good idea if you are on insulin, @Rosiecarmel  - although you would hope it won't happen, the glycogen stores in your liver might be what saves your life if you suffer a severe hypo  The glucagon injection that a paramedic would give you works by stimulating your liver to release lots of its glycogen to raise your levels, if you've depleted them, then you would be in trouble  Also, again, it's not nice to think about, but if you have a night hypo, what might save you is if your liver kicks in to raise levels - this is why sometimes people wake up feeling rough but their levels are high, they dropped too low and eventually the liver responded to raise levels.

It's true that exercise depletes muscle glycogen, and this may get topped back up by the liver - again, it's a good idea to have a small carby snack after exercise so you don't exhaust your liver.


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## Hazel (Jan 25, 2017)

As a long term T2, perhaps you could seek out current advice from the professionals at your local diabetic clinic.

I have been T2 for 18 years and current thinking has changed over the years.

I habe found my consultant and DSN very supportive and helpful.

In the last 7 months I have lost over 6 stone and brought my HbA1c down from 11.8% to 5.8% (40).     I should be able to come off insulin too in the next few months at this rate.

I wish you well on your journey


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## loader (Jan 25, 2017)

Welcome LCB.

Whatever you do - keep posting here and keep chatting. Everyone is different and the more people posting - the more info the site has.

In the early stages - I wanted to see a lower BG before breakfast and noticed that (for me) it wasn't affected too much by the previous nights meal (unless the previous nights meal was really inappropriate).

Having read on here that if you don't eat breakfast then your liver gives you a free one, I decided to try a snack 2 hours before I got up.

That worked for me. Further reading suggested the liver may stop dumping glucose when you eat breakfast.

Of course, we are all very different and this approach may do nothing for you – but for me, a low carb snack when my bladder wakes me a 4am – brought down the pre-breakfast BG considerably.

Not sure if this actually does me any good but it makes me feel good and helps keep me away from the bad feelings that ultimately lead to the take-away and silly BG numbers.

So keep posting – nothing is too trivial. If someone tells you there not interested or talks to you in a very superior manner – just add them to your ignore list and keep posting.


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## mikeyB (Jan 25, 2017)

I would agree with Northerner above. It is absolutely lunatic to try and deplete your glycogen store. Twice, my life has been saved by my liver. That's why, if you ever use glucagon, you must eat something carby afterwards to restore your glycogen. In fact, it's such bad and dangerous advice it ought to be removed, not just rebutted. You never know, a newbie T1 might see it.


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## Northerner (Jan 25, 2017)

mikeyB said:


> I would agree with Northerner above. It is absolutely lunatic to try and deplete your glycogen store. Twice, my life has been saved by my liver. That's why, if you ever use glucagon, you must eat something carby afterwards to restore your glycogen. In fact, it's such bad and dangerous advice it ought to be removed, not just rebutted. You never know, a newbie T1 might see it.


Removed post in question.


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## Lindarose (Jan 25, 2017)

Hi LCB and welcome from another type2. 
You'll learn loads from reading through posts on here and asking questions


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## LCB (Jan 25, 2017)

Wow, what lot of info!  I am learning so much.  Being an engineer, I need to understand something to work with it, and in this one post I've found out more than in the last nine years since I was belatedly diagnosed (BS around 24).  At the time I was drinking to replenish - around 15 litres of iced water a day... Hence the diagnosis.

As for Northerners post; I'd like to thank him as he's raised my understanding tremendously.  Everyone else's words of caution are also taken on board... 

A bit more about me:  I'm T2, on multiple tablets.  I am 17 stone (dropping but lets see the longer term), with the fat being internal; I have a large midfif but cannot pinch an inch...  My BS have been increasing, giving an average over 12 at my last blood check.  I was not brill at cutting out carbs; a cheap way of stemming hunger.

Consequently a drastic life decision... I've been targetting zero carbs, but this is impossible, especially as I spend a lot of time working away.  Buying carb free is easy if you have a kitchen; I do B&B.  This week I've been eating celery, warercress, sliced meats, cheese, boiled eggs and home made beef jerky.  I've seemingly lost 7lbs since Sunday, but from Northerner's email; that's mainly water.  My Blood sugars are improving; lowest is 6 after a few hours fasting and giving an overall average nearer 7.5

Daily, I take 4 Metformin, 3 Gliclazide and also have 1 injection of Dulaglutide on a Sunday.  Apparently the latter will help curb my appetite.  My tummy hasn't worked that bit out yet...

My challenge (at present - what advice?) is to get my BS down to 4, then drop a Gliclazide, etc... In the process I should lose weight; improving my body's chances of getting rid of the annoying rattle with the number of associated tablets I need take.  On that note, it may only be water loss but I definitely need to buy another pair of shorts before I use the diving board!
My blood sugars improve daily.  I feel fine, and (I believe) my BS is high enough to reduce risks of overdoing it, especially given I test every 1 to 2  hours.

I want to see rapid results, but I also want to stay safe, otherwise what's the point.  The idea of a snack when I wake in the night is interesting... I'm not convinced this is any more than a hoodwink though.

I also have another theory regarding the LCHF diet... The only fat foxes are urban, where carbs are readily available outside restaurants ( the more flavoursome foods are eaten not ditched).  Also, nature produces high carb fruits in the autumn.  The animal kingdom uses that to produce and store fat for the winter months.  In the spring we return to high protien when we don't need the fat, becoming fit and lean to catch more food.

Anyway, thanks for all of your contributions!  Please don't stop; I need the knowledge, and I want to make the right decisions.

Lewis (LCB)


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## LCB (Jan 25, 2017)

ChrisSamsDad said:


> dance like no-one's watching


Love it


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## Rosiecarmel (Jan 25, 2017)

Good for you. Sounds like you're really putting the effort in! Takes a while, but you'll get used to it  don't forget, meat and fish have barely any carbs, if any at all, in 

Personally, I think aiming for 4mmol is too low. "4 is the floor" is what health professionals say as anything under four is considered hypoglycaemic. Even non diabetic people have blood glucose levels in the 5s a lot of the time.

Even a hba1c of 40 which is below diabetic range works out at an average blood glucose level of 6.7.


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## trophywench (Jan 25, 2017)

We'd be hard pressed to completely avoid carbs - they're in even cucumber and flippin lettuce.  OK - such minuscule amounts they are negligible - but they are there!

It's probably most unlikely you'll be referred to a 'proper' diabetes clinic unless you live in Scotland, like Hazel does.  Most T2s in England are treated exclusively at their GP surgery.


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## PhoebeC (Jan 26, 2017)

Hazel said:


> In the last 7 months I have lost over 6 stone and brought my HbA1c down from 11.8% to 5.8% (40).     I should be able to come off insulin too in the next few months at this rate.


Wow Hazel that's awesome!

Welcome to the site LCB. Ask away. There's not a better site for diabetic info.


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## Hazel (Jan 26, 2017)

PhoebeC said:


> Wow Hazel that's awesome!



Phoebe - have we met at on the meets, York or Newcastle?


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## Northerner (Jan 26, 2017)

LCB said:


> My challenge (at present - what advice?) is to get my BS down to 4, then drop a Gliclazide, etc..


Aiming for  4s is too low, especially if you are on a medication like Gliclazide, and too low to drive on safely (if you drive). 5s and 6s are perfectly acceptable numbers to target, and certainly more achievable - if you do get 5s or 6s then you certainly shouldn't feel as if that's 'not good enough'


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## PhoebeC (Jan 26, 2017)

Hazel said:


> Phoebe - have we met at on the meets, York or Newcastle?


No I've never made a meet ... yet. Xx


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## LCB (Jan 26, 2017)

Coo.  More info to absorb; ta
In which case get to 5 and lose a tablet.

I also need to understand the HbA1c relationships but have no idea what they are at the moment.  A task for lunchtime.

I'm monitored generally at my GP surgery, with a specialist nurse.  She's very keen and obviously reads up on all the latest approved data.  She works with me and is very supportive and encouraging.  This is the first time I've done something so drastic however being away from home so much, I have to plan blood tests a month in advance only to be told we don't book that far ahead.  Places a lot of onus on self-help... I wish I'd got involved with you guys a lot earlier, but then I guess my mind set wasn't ready then.

I'm very grateful for your support...

Lewis


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## Northerner (Jan 26, 2017)

Lewis, it's great to hear your determination, and good to hear that you have good support from your surgery  Keep asking questions and with that mindset, I'm sure you will be able to achieve your goals


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## Robin (Jan 26, 2017)

Oh, nearly forgot, welcome on board, LCB, sounds like you're determined to crack this, and have made a good start. As you can see, plenty of lively discussion on this site.


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## LCB (Jan 26, 2017)

Thanks All,

Just taken a measurement at 5.5 (Yee Haah!), so from the above I'll drop 1 Gliclazide (lunchtime) and watch the results...

To summarise the above; It sounds to me as if the liver knows its onions, which is a good thing as that can save your bacon.  Oh God - now I'm hungry again...

This is not the ideal location for this chat, which seems to be going a bit off-piste anyway (or is that piste-off?); I'll post again soon in a more appropriate location.  I can't thank you guys enough.

Best wishes,

Lewis

N.B. I use "guys" as a unisex label; a bit like there being no such thing as a "Comedienne" any more as everyone's become a comedian.  Maybe in Sandi Toxvig's case it makes a level of sense.  Anyway I hope none of you ladies take offence.


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## Northerner (Jan 26, 2017)

LCB said:


> This is not the ideal location for this chat, which seems to be going a bit off-piste anyway (or is that piste-off?); I'll post again soon in a more appropriate location. I can't thank you guys enough.


Apologies for the drift! That parallel discussion will no longer feature here  Great news about the 5.5!


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## TheBorgiaBull (Jan 26, 2017)

Hi. Nice to meet you.


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## john pardo (Jan 26, 2017)

Hello and welcome.


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## FergusC (Jan 26, 2017)

LCB said:


> Thanks All,
> 
> Just taken a measurement at 5.5 (Yee Haah!), so from the above I'll drop 1 Gliclazide (lunchtime) and watch the results...
> 
> .


Lewis, good luck on the dropping of 1 glic
If that proves too far at present, another possibility could be to consider a half tablet (I asume you are on the 8mg or 4mg normal glics which are scored) In my descent down the glic demand scale, I went 8mg, half 8mg, 4 mg, half 4mg, nil


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## Grannylorraine (Jan 26, 2017)

Welcome


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## Mark Parrott (Jan 27, 2017)

Hi LCB & welcome to the forum.


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## LCB (Feb 20, 2017)

Hi everyone,
I'm after advice again...

Everything has been going incredibly well so far, my blood sugars came down to average around 6, so I kicked 1 of 3 Gliclazide... then two... To cut a long story short; doing the zero carb diet has meant I've kicked all 3 Gliclazide, the weekly injection, and one Metformin, and I've lost over a stone in weight (now 15 st 10 lb).  Great guns... And all in 4 weeks.  However, yesterday and today my BG levels have been going up.  From an average 5.5 for several days after kicking the Gliclazide to nearer 9.  I'm still not eating carbs; this must be my body converting fat.  The only cause I can think of is that I took a bad tumble on Saturday which left me with a badly sprained thumb and a big patch of skin missing from my knee.  This has me in quite a fair amount of pain a fair amount of the time.  Hence I'm wondering if the pain causes the body to boost the sugar levels.  A sort of defence mechanism maybe? Supposition on my part - I've not eaten any carbs (believed around 25 cumulative but certainly less than 50g at worst per day) so why the increase...?

Any advice from physiology types would be very gratefully received - I'm very confused and more than a little concerned.

Lewis


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## Northerner (Feb 20, 2017)

LCB said:


> Hence I'm wondering if the pain causes the body to boost the sugar levels. A sort of defence mechanism maybe? Supposition on my part - I've not eaten any carbs (believed around 25 cumulative but certainly less than 50g at worst per day) so why the increase...?


Hi LCB, I think you've probably put your finger on it there - pain causes stress, stress hormones stimulate the liver to release more glucose into the blood and thus your levels can rise. See how you go on when you have recovered, which I hope will be very soon  A short period at higher levels won't do lasting damage, so try not to worry (worry also causes stress! )

Whether you are eating carbs or not, your body will still produce glucose, if no carbs then fat and even muscle protein can be converted.


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## Martin Canty (Feb 20, 2017)

LCB said:


> My challenge (at present - what advice?) is to get my BS down to 4, then drop a Gliclazide,


Hi LCB

Take it from one who has been there, trying to get BG that low while on Gliclazide is unwise, you will suffer hypo's and some of them may be at the most inopportune time. I actually stopped taking Glyburide (an equivalent drug) when my FBG numbers were approaching 5.... Done after a conversation with my Dr. after suffering some major hypo's & many minor ones. Learned a lot about managing D since then.


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## Martin Canty (Feb 20, 2017)

LCB said:


> Hence I'm wondering if the pain causes the body to boost the sugar levels


To be honest, pretty much anything will affect BG.... Heat, Cold, Stress, Illness, changes in weather.... We just cannot predict what the affect will be until it happens. IMHO don't worry too much about it, just roll with it, tomorrow will be a new day.


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## LCB (Feb 20, 2017)

Thanks guys.  
Martin, I never let it go below 4.5 without taking some carbs. I'm now on 3 Metformin only, losing weight fast, and I believe that as I'm not on Gliclazide, there's no likelihood of a hypo any more.
Northerner; that made sense, so I'm chuffed I got it right.  It just seemed higher than I would have expected.  Tomorrow's a new day.


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## Martin Canty (Feb 20, 2017)

LCB said:


> as I'm not on Gliclazide, there's no likelihood of a hypo any more.


That was my experience, no hypo's for over a year now...... Happy Bunny.....


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## Ralph-YK (Feb 20, 2017)

Hello LCB from a fellow T2 who's 2 years in.


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