# Strictly!



## eggyg (Oct 25, 2020)

As promised a Strictly thread. I have only caught up with the opening show and loved it. I think they’ve done a great job in getting around the Covid problem. I like everyone, although I don’t know them all, but I’m sure I will grow to know them. Bill Bailey looks like he’ll be good fun. Caroline Quentin and Jaquie Smith are representing my age group, go girls. HRVY? and the young girl from Eastenders will appeal to the youngsters I’m sure. JJ looks like a good sport. Going to watch last nights episode this afternoon, can’t wait!


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## grovesy (Oct 25, 2020)

I rarely know who any of these so called celebrities are!


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## SB2015 (Oct 25, 2020)

I don’t recognise many of the celebrities but still watching how they develop through the weeks.
They have done brilliantly on managing to get the show back on, and the dances yesterday were amazing.  From the group dance last week I had some idea of who I thought would struggle but some of them really surprised me.  Looking forward to next week.


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## eggyg (Oct 25, 2020)

I’ve caught up! They were all great for the first week. Thought Bill Bailey was so funny but did have rhythm. Caroline was so graceful. Was disappointed with Jason, I thought he would have been better, sports persons usually do well. Liked Nicola’s quick step, hard dance for a first show.  But must admit HRVY ( granddaughter watched it and knew who he was from Tik Tok) was fantastic but I like to root for the underdogs as I like to see their progress as the show goes on. Roll on next week.


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## SueEK (Oct 25, 2020)

I thought HRVY was amazing, a jive for the first dance - wow!! Loved Caroline, thought she was great, beautiful hands and arms and really landed each move. Thought the girl from Eastenders was also very good, Samba, another really difficult dance. For the first show it was really good and think there will be some great dances to come.
Claudia looked great in that dress and thankfully has had her fringe cut, phew!!


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## trophywench (Oct 26, 2020)

I thought exactly the same as you about Claudia - I really loved her in that dress, thought it suited her which hitherto I haven't felt about her outfits - more like they were deliberately trying to not appear as glamorous as Tess rather than her equal.

So far ..... Jackie Smith didn't surprise me, sorry but can't somehow see her becoming a graceful swan.  Not helped by her smiling mouth being oblong.  I've never been graceful in my life entirely unlike Caroline Quentin - said to Pete as they went to the stairs from the judges, she was tripping along effortlessly on the balls of her feet on springs.  She *is* a dancer.  Thought Jamie Laing was fairly poor TBH - but there again, week 1.  Thought a Pasa Doble in week 1 was a big ask, and JJ turned out far better than expected.  Think if Bill can manage a bit more grace - (wonder if there's something actually up with the knees, physically preventing him locking his legs straight in which case costume dept will have to design his trousers to not accentuate that) and he'll constantly lose points.  His excellent rhythm was no surprise - no way he could have had the career he's had without it.

Looking forward to whatever the series gives us.


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## grovesy (Oct 26, 2020)

Don't have any  particular strong feelings about any of them. I watch the recorded programme and fast forward the padding bits.


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## Robin (Oct 26, 2020)

grovesy said:


> Don't have any  particular strong feelings about any of them. I watch the recorded programme and fast forward the padding bits.


That’s what I do!


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## Chris Hobson (Oct 26, 2020)

I follow a blogger who is a motorcycle training instructor. He often encounters trainees that he terms the GNIs, or God never intended. These are students who are so incredibly inept that he knows that they will never qualify for a full motorcycle licence. Most seasons of SCD have featured their own GNIs, Anne Widdecombe being the most obvious example. This time around there aren't any. Every one of this season's newcomers has shown potential.

The guy who misses all of the vowels out of his name was excellent. But seriously, that is your gimmick? It is about as lame as that eighties boy band who wore their Jean's back to front. From now on I shall be known as Chrstpher Hbsn, aren't I cool?


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## trophywench (Oct 26, 2020)

Jnnfr Chpmn, plsd t mt y.


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## Lizzzie (Oct 26, 2020)

Having only really seen Caroline Quentin on Jonathan Creek, was well surprised by her girliness, un-sarcastic excitement  an and overall loveliness.  I must be getting old - am rooting for her to do well - but actually want Nicola Adams to win overall because she's doing something awesome, sticking to her guns to get a same-sex partner (it must be so hard to say no to being on strictly).  I'm almost sad that some of the sexy young soap (or whatever) stars are so talented, but they do seem talented, so good luck to them too.....


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## Toucan (Oct 27, 2020)

Yes - I'll be voting for Caroline as well. such a great role model for more 'mature' ladies!


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## eggyg (Nov 1, 2020)

I’ve caught up just before tonight’s show. They were all very good. Especially Bill, who would have thought he would be so light on his feet? The Vowelless One was also good again. Unfortunately I really wanted to like Jason but he’s just dad dancing really isn’t he? Caroline is amazing, she’s the same age as me but there’s no way I could do what she does, I baked yesterday and after 10 minutes folding and whisking my shoulders were good for nothing, I can only dance with my arms by my side! Hmm... maybe I should try Irish dancing? Tonight I predict Jason and Jacqui in the dance off. I’ll probably be wrong!


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## SueEK (Nov 1, 2020)

OMG I love Strictly. My very unprofessional comments, just caught up.
Maisie, great dancing but can’t help but concentrate on her short legs, sorry.
HRVY, looked like a ventriloquists dummy but great dancing.
Nicola, lovely smile, great boxer but not my cup of tea at all, don’t like the same sex scenario, don’t know why, I live in Brighton, most of the population are in same sex relationships, which doesn’t bother me in the least.  Doesn’t help as Katya is my least favourite female dancer.
Ranvir - ok
Caroline, love her. Needed more oomph and drama buT beautiful, arms, hands and expression, really hope she does well.
Bill was great
Max is gorgeous and, considering his nerves, did really well, he is definitely going to be brilliant if he can overcome his nerves,
JJ, what a man. Good on him. He is doing brilliantly, am cheering him on.
Clara, good but doesn’t excite me in any way.
Jason (I had a cat called Jason), love his enthusiasm and his obvious enjoyment. Wonderful smile though no hips that were visible.
Jamie, oh dear he’s no Kelvin is he, think he may be in the bottom two.
Jacque, I feel really uncomfortable watching her though she is obviously trying really hard and I do commend her for that, definitely bottom 2 and first off I think.
Well those are my scathing points for the day and as an armchair critic I’m allowed lol.
Just one other point, what were the producers thinking allowing Shirley to go on air looking like a tramp, cover up lady and have a bit of class


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## eggyg (Nov 1, 2020)

I agree about Shirley’s dress on the Saturday show. Must admit I didn’t think “tramp” but more “ put them away woman!”


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## SueEK (Nov 1, 2020)

eggyg said:


> I agree about Shirley’s dress on the Saturday show. Must admit I didn’t think “tramp” but more “ put them away woman!”


I think it’s the toy boy influence, she’s obviously ‘feeling young and flirty’ lol x


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## SB2015 (Nov 1, 2020)

Well that was no surprise this week.  Jackie Smith was definitely at a bit of a loss, even with Ed Balls popping in to give her some advice.  The others have all come through and Bill Bailey was a bit of a surprise after last week.  He really has worked hard this week.


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## trophywench (Nov 1, 2020)

Bill actually surprised me - he'd told them his knees didn't straighten and they certainly didn't last week - yet here he was this week ballroom dancing rather well sometimes with straight legs!  I was cross with 'Wardrobe' - if you want to make someone look fatter than they are just bung em in a long skirt with short flounces.  Spanish dancing skirts have shedloads of frills round their hems - not flounces.  The sleeves are skintight but have shedloads more material in the underarm area to accommodate the arm movements. Or - they have a very neat oval hole under the armpit.  The men's suits of lights which Matadors wear have holes under the pits too.  Jackie Smith's dress was the same - deliberately constructed to emphasise her bodily rigidity.  Oh that Hrvy is too good looking, so we'll just make him look as completely beige as we can.  That American bloke isn't as gobby as we thought he'd be, instead of which he turns out to be very mild mannered and polite - so we'll make his outfit as brash as we can.


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## SueEK (Nov 7, 2020)

Wow great show. What a constant surprise Bill is, just great. Ranvir was also really really good. Enjoyed Maisie’s dance and also JJ’s. As the judges said Caroline does need to let go a bit and think Jason will be voted off, he was definitely the weakest but I thoroughly enjoyed all the dances tonight.
PS another lovely dress for Claudia


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## SueEK (Nov 7, 2020)

Oh I forgot Jamie’s dance was hysterical, he really got the character, I fell about laughing


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## eggyg (Nov 7, 2020)

Loved it! Bill is fab isn’t he? I didn’t understand how Jamie got the score he did, I didn’t like it. Poor Jason, think you’re right and he’ll be out. I really like Max, such a humble lad and a half decent dancer. Really want Clara to do well as I love Alijaz and Lady Marmalade is one of my favourite songs. JJ is doing really well. I too was a bit disappointed with Caroline. Bottom 2, Jason and maybe Caroline.


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## SB2015 (Nov 7, 2020)

Bill Bailey is amazing, especially when you compare it to his first dance.  I think Jason is on his way out, and the comments seemed fair.  There was no flow and it did look like dancing by numbers.
We will see what happens.


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## Lanny (Nov 7, 2020)

Wow! The performance of the night goes to Bill Bayley, for me! I didn’t know he was a comedian as I only knew him from previously presenting on Classic FM & being a musician. That theme music REALLY worked for the paso. But, unfortunately Stars Wars just DID NOT work & much as I liked Jason Bell from the start I COULD NOT like that performance tonight! But, the biggest surprise, for me, tonight was Max George doing The Simpsons: NEVER thought it would work on paper but, it DID!


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## Lanny (Nov 7, 2020)

Oh yes! Had a passing thought about Caroline Quentin! She reminds me of Lewis Smith in a way because the skills are there & she’s a beautiful dancer but, that extra bit of character is missing. Lewis Smith certainly had bags of character, as a person, in the gymnastics world, known for it, but, nonetheless in his gymnastics it wasn’t about performance at all being all about the skills so, it took him quite late in the competition for him to let go & finally start to perform in The Charleston. I think it’s the same for Caroline in that she has the skills, childhood ballet, but, not performance. I wouldn’t have thought that to be a problem for her being an actress & particularly struck me in watching back her VT about the theatre that launched her acting career!


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## Chris Hobson (Nov 8, 2020)

Clara has wonderful thighs.


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## Chris Hobson (Nov 14, 2020)

I have to say that the standard this year is exceptional, nobody deserves to go, I know that someone has to but still.


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## eggyg (Nov 14, 2020)

Here’s my thoughts on tonight’s show. All subjective as I am not a dancer and know nowt about it, I just know what I like.
HRVY was amazing but I was mesmerised by Janette she was brilliant! I’ve watched salsa been danced in Havana and love it, would never try and attempt it though, probably put my back out! 
Poor Ranvir, she looked very uncomfortable tonight, I felt for her. Hope she stays in.
Max, I thought it looked fine but Craig Wanted more. Diane’s dress was gorgeous!
JJ, not many kicks and flicks but hey, Prince Harry video called him.
Maisie, better than Ranvir’s Cha Cha Cha but Gorka’s socks were putting me off!
Bill, wow! I love Rappers Delight, remember dancing to it in an Acton nightclub in 1979, I’d never heard anything like it and Bill brought back wonderful memories. Bravo!
Caroline, it looked good to me, very elegant and fantastic song choice.
Jamie, sorry missed it as was too busy prancing about my living room. Bamboleo by The Gypsy Kings is our family anthem and danced to at every family gathering. But the judges seem to like it!
Aljaz, he was fantastic, oh and Clara was fab! 
What an amazing show, music choices were tip top. The only downer was Anton, I’m not a fan ( controversial, I know some think he’s a national treasure ). I was feeling a bit flat today and it’s cheered me up no end and brought back some great memories.  
I don’t want anyone to go.


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## SueEK (Nov 15, 2020)

Such a good show, am really enjoying it.
I agree @eggyg that I was watching Janette, she’s so good and love that she is married to Aljaz, they must just smile at each other all day lol. 
HRVY very good I thought.
Ranvir, again I agree she did look uncomfortable and very close to tears bless her.
Max was good.
JJ, how smart and proud was he to wear his uniform. Not a great performance but he is always going to have limitations and a superb effort.
Maisie, she’s not one of my favourites but thought she was really good and that the judges comments were again pretty harsh, she’s obviously loving ‘the journey’.
Bill, another great performance though not one of my personal favourites. He’s doing so well.
Caroline, one of my favourite songs, very classy and so want her to do well, but really feel that something essential is missing with her dancing??
Jamie, again an excellent dance. At the beginning of the series I didn’t think he would be any good but he has really improved and he is like a little boy with so much joy, they are making a great pairing.
Clara, definitely dance of the night for me. She looked amazing, loved the dress and the hair style.
Wonderful show and thought Anton did very well. Was hoping he wouldn’t be over the top, as he can be, and he wasn’t so look forward to seeing him next week.


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## SueEK (Nov 15, 2020)

SPOILER
Really sad to see Max go. Don’t think either of them deserved to be in the bottom two but there you go. Still looking forward to next week.


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## grovesy (Nov 15, 2020)

Often the dance off couples are not the ones who deserve to be.


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## Lanny (Nov 16, 2020)

Well, being distracted by The Masters golf, I just caught up with Strictly this week.  There were 3 standout performances for me:- Bill Bailey was SO musically on the beat & every little nuance, to the beat, was just outstanding, so laidback too; Jamie Lang was surprisingly good, again, & made me laugh so much but, he actually was in sync & kept up with Karen, even having to be restrained from starting his, no idea how to spell this but, you know the dance steps I mean, too soon by Karen that was well spotted by Shirley AND it was flagged in slow mo in the results show but, the performance of the night, for me by a whisker over Bill’s, was Clara Amfo! That Charleston was SO good & really brought out her personality!

Was shocked to see Max in the dance off & even sadder to see him out of the competition. I didn’t really like Maisie’s performance on Saturday or Ranvir’s & thought SHE had a lucky escape not being in the dance off! 

This series’ standards has been the best I’ve seen & they’re all so good!


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## SueEK (Nov 21, 2020)

Well can’t say I agreed with the judges this week, not that I know anything. 
Jamie was great, deserved to be top of the leader board.
Maisie, was good but thought too highly marked.
Ranvir, cannot believe Anton gave a 10, I really didn’t like it and it’s my very favourite dance.
HRVY really enjoyed his dance, thought he was great for such a difficult routine.
Bill, thought he was good but the least favourite of the dances he has done so far for me.
JJ thought he was really good this week and hopefully will be safe.
Caroline, thought the comments were over the top, didn’t like it and think she will go this week, though really like her.
Clara, such a disappointment after last week, she is so talented.
Well, I sound like a right old moaning minnie and I certainly couldn’t do it as well as them but just my opinion as an armchair critic.  Wouldn’t miss it for the world though


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## SB2015 (Nov 21, 2020)

No idea who is likely to go this week, and like you @SueEK i was surprised by some of the scores, but then I know very little about the ‘rules’ for each of the dances.  Enjoyed them all. I favour Bill and Caroline for no other reason than I knew who they were at the start.


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## SB2015 (Nov 21, 2020)

Like @Lanny said there are no Anne Widdicombes this year.  They are all amazing.


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## Lanny (Nov 21, 2020)

Well, well, well! Jamie at the top of the leaderboard! BUT, he was REALLY good! He’s really blossomed these 3 weeks since his dance-off & he was absolutely brilliant tonight! Karen seems to have a niche with her Couple’s Choices & Street Dance! All my 3 online votes went on him this week! He blew me away with his performance! 

Caroline at LAST showed some character in her very cheeky Cha Cha Cha: I couldn’t believe when I saw her licking Johannes arm! 

Bill, I thought was just a wee bit lacking & I can’t really put my finger on why? 

There has always been 2 dances on Strictly that I just can’t seem to judge right, just don’t have the judges’ eyes I suppose, & never can predict how the scoring will go: the Cha Cha & the Ballroom Tango; this time I was puzzled & disconcerted by the judges comments about Ranvir’s Argentine Tango but, then, the actual lower scores reflected what I felt about it. I’ve never liked the Ballroom Tango’s jerky staccato & hated it over the years but, also loved some performances as well! On the other hand, my favourite dance has always been the Argentine Tango & it’s THE Tango, for me, as it’s the original: the International or Ballroom Tango was invented later to clean it up a bit as the original was deemed a bit too smutty! I REALLY didn’t like Ranvir’s Argentine Tango tonight & felt a disconnect between her dancing, lacking intensity, & the really good song & performance by Tommy the singer: quite rightly pointed out by Tess; this is only the 2nd Argentine Tango I didn’t like & the other one was Tom Chambers as they both lacked intensity! But, to be fair to Tom Chambers it was new to all the pros, never mind the celeb’s, the year that he did it: apart from Vincent & Flavia who are Argentine Tango experts; Ranvir with Giovanni didn’t have that excuse!


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## SueEK (Nov 21, 2020)

Lanny said:


> Well, well, well! Jamie at the top of the leaderboard! BUT, he was REALLY good! He’s really blossomed these 3 weeks since his dance-off & he was absolutely brilliant tonight! Karen seems to have a niche with her Couple’s Choices & Street Dance! All my 3 online votes went on him this week! He blew me away with his performance!
> 
> Caroline at LAST showed some character in her very cheeky Cha Cha Cha: I couldn’t believe when I saw her licking Johannes arm!
> 
> ...


I saw Vincent and Flavia in the Eastbourne theatre a few years ago, it was absolutely amazing.  It was in the same theatre that I used to go and see the ballet when I was a child, lovely memories.


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## rebrascora (Nov 21, 2020)

Just want to say, I don't have a TV so I am getting my "Strictly fix" through your comments on here and then my friend will text me her thoughts tomorrow when she watches both episodes together. 
Just want to say many thanks for the informative critiques. Really enjoying reading them and it means I can have a knowledgeable conversation with my friend even though I have not seen it. I am a Strictly fan and have been to lots of the live shows but can't justify having a TV and Licence


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## rebrascora (Nov 21, 2020)

Yes, I have seen Vincent and Flavia on tour a couple of times and they were breathtaking in their performances!


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## eggyg (Nov 22, 2020)

Was supposed to send this last night but only had 15 mins before a Scandi drama started on BBC4. I wasn’t wowed with anyone last night, poor Clara I felt for her, she went wrong in the middle and just lost it. Bill as usual very graceful. JJ much better than last week. Maisie was good. I really don’t get Jamie, I really think I’m watching something else to the judges. I can dance like that, after 10 Bacardi and Cokes! Well, I could at his age! Now Caroline, hmm.. bit embarrassing. I can’t warm to her although I have always liked her as an actress. HRVY did ok but better at Latin I think. Ranvir, I love the Argentine tango and this was ok for just week 4 but nothing for me can beat Kara Tointon and Artem. Just Googled it and it was 10 years ago! Blimey! She got two 9s and two 10s. It was spine tingling. I think maybe Caroline could be in danger tonight, the judges thought it was her best dance but I’m not so sure.


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## eggyg (Nov 28, 2020)

Tonight’s critique.
Clara. Oh bless her, she lost it again. Great music though.
Jamie. Well it’s the first dance I have enjoyed of his, much better than the comedy routines he has being doing.
HRVY. Brilliant!
Ranvir. I loved it, very elegant.
Bill. Absolutely loved it, fantastic music too. He’ll be in the final I think. Stuff Craig! 
JJ. Not my favourite dance but he danced it very well, loved Amy’s dress.
Maisie. The quick step is one of my favourites and I thought she did a great job. Doesn’t deserve to be in the bottom two this week.
All in all a fantastic show this week, I’m worried for Clara.


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## Sharron1 (Nov 28, 2020)

eggyg said:


> Tonight’s critique.
> Clara. Oh bless her, she lost it again. Great music though.
> Jamie. Well it’s the first dance I have enjoyed of his, much better than the comedy routines he has being doing.
> HRVY. Brilliant!
> ...


I am  impressed with Bill and his knees. They r all  incredible


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## Chris Hobson (Nov 28, 2020)

It is now at the point when I don't want anyone to leave because I like them all. I think that Clara is really the one who deserves to go this week, I will be sad to see her lovely legs for the last time in the dance off.


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## SueEK (Nov 28, 2020)

Clara. Oh dear it didn’t go to plan, shame as she is talented.
Jamie. Thought he did really well, I expect it was hard for him to keep a ‘tango’ face, glad he got good scores.
HRVY, great couples choice, he comes across as a really genuinely nice guy and the choreography was excellent.
Ranvir, thought she did really well.
Bill, the least favourite for me of his dances although appreciate the jive is hard but particularly so for his age. I didn’t think it gelled that well and his flicks weren’t sharp but I definitely admire him.
JJ my favourite dance of the evening, very emotive and danced beautifully, really suited him, glad to see he got such good scores.
Maisie. Great dance, she did it so well and again deserved her scores. She definitely should not be in the bottom 2 tomorrow.
I agree with you @eggyg I think Clara may well be in trouble tomorrow and possibly Ranvir.
Enjoying the series but it’s going too fast


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## C&E Guy (Nov 29, 2020)

This could be the year for my friend Giovanni.  Mio amico.
HRVY was good tonight, as was Bill 
It's going to be close.


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## Lanny (Nov 29, 2020)

HRVY was the performance of the night for me & I really enjoyed it!. 

A pity that I fell asleep during JJ’s dance but, that wasn’t HIS fault, after being up so early, as the first thing that struck me, catching up on iPlayer after waking up, was how smoothly he danced it as all of his dances, thus far, have been jerky & not completely smooth!

I knew something didn’t look right about Clara’s dance but, I couldn’t put my finger on it & I think she’ll be in the dance off tomorrow. 

I quite enjoyed Jamie’s tango but, it being 1 of the 2 dances I can never judge correctly, wasn’t sure how the judges would mark it? I LOVED his comments about how ridiculously unnatural it is to do the tango all week on It Takes Two &, you know, he’s right! 

Bill was entertaining, as ever, but, the jive wasn’t really his dance. 

Maisie is good, has been from the start, but, she just leaves me cold for some reason: only enjoyed her dance on week one & thereafter it has been “Meh” for me; think she might be in the dance off again this week as well! She reminds me of Ricky Whittle in the same way that they’re both well regarded by the judges but, just doesn’t get the public vote: definitely good as there’s no denying that; just doesn’t move me! 

Missed the voting but, all three of my votes would have gone to HARVY or, the vowelless one as @eggyg calls him! 

Just one tiny bit of a downside is that he’s beaten Debbie McGee’s earliest perfect score by 1 week: Debbie’s was in week 7; HARVY’s in week 6!  Debbie McGee is still my favourite ever celeb on Strictly & it was AMAZING what she did at her age: gutted she didn’t win with Giovanni that year! It was also, before the couple’s choice came in as I think contemporary would have suited her very well!


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## freesia (Nov 29, 2020)

I think its going to be really hard to guess who will win this year, they're all good. HRVY was very good last night but i enjoyed Ranvir's dance as well. Maisie is very good but as you say @Lanny, shes not one of my favourites. I love Bill, he's so energetic and didn't even seem out of breath after that jive. I do think Clara might go home tonight though


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## SueEK (Nov 29, 2020)

SPOILER
What a shame to see Clara go, you could really tell that she enjoyed every minute and such a wonderful smile. I must admit I would have gone with Jamie as well as I thought he was excellent but it was such a close thing. 
What a great competition this year, really good for the soul. Cheers me up no end.
@eggyg you’ve had such a rough ride lately I hope it is good for your soul as well x


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## trophywench (Nov 29, 2020)

Sorry - we both disliked Clara's jive.  Though it is very true that it is and often was done in flat shoes, as far as we are both aware the balls of the feet get A LOT of use whilst dancing it - and at no point during the entire both performances, did she appear to be ON those balls.  Just looked flat footed throughout to both of us and therefore simply wrong.


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## freesia (Nov 29, 2020)

I preferred Jamie's tango as well, Clara has been good but the last couple of weeks she hasn't been as good as she was. I'm looking forward to seeing Bill's Argentine Tango next week! I do love that dance. I would love to learn how to dance but OH doesn't want to.


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## eggyg (Nov 30, 2020)

Clara’s heart definitely wasn’t in it last night. She could have totally redeemed herself but it wasn’t to be. What a shame.


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## eggyg (Nov 30, 2020)

SueEK said:


> SPOILER
> What a shame to see Clara go, you could really tell that she enjoyed every minute and such a wonderful smile. I must admit I would have gone with Jamie as well as I thought he was excellent but it was such a close thing.
> What a great competition this year, really good for the soul. Cheers me up no end.
> @eggyg you’ve had such a rough ride lately I hope it is good for your soul as well x


I really love Strictly anyways but Saturday night did cheer me up thanks.


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## eggyg (Dec 5, 2020)

This weeks critique.
JJ. I can’t pretend that I know what the Charleston is supposed to look like, I felt it was ok but not very exciting. I agree with Craig for a change, was stoppy and starty. Amy’s dress fantastic again.
Ranvir. Looked really good to me. Didn’t know the musical or the song. She could be a finalist.
Maisie.Wow! Very well done, I was exhausted watching that!
Bill. Well, wasn’t quite as cringy as I thought it may have been. It’s a hard dance for the celebrities especially the male celebrities as Shirley said. I thought he led quite well. Not his best dance though. Oti looked amazing, as always, I hate her. 
HRVY. Absolutely fantastic. Amazing lifts but I’m assuming Janette must only be about 6st wet through! He has to be in the final. I didn’t realise Janette hadn’t ever got this far before. I’m so pleased for her. Craig could have squeezed another point out. Miserable git! 
Jamie. Oh dear! Not his dance I’m afraid. As Len used to say. Too much faffing about. Obviously because he couldn’t do the kicks and flicks, and once over, he was behind Karen and you couldn’t see his dancing. Worried for him tonight.
Not a big fan of musical week on the whole, never knew half of them TBH. HRVY my winner tonight. Don’t know how Jamie got more points than JJ though. Shirley definitely favours him.
My prediction. Jamie and JJ in dance off tomorrow.


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## SueEK (Dec 5, 2020)

Just finished watching Strictly. My comments for what they’re worth.
JJ. Considering the limitations he has, which are rarely mentioned, I thought he did extremely well though as the judges said it was a bit stop and start.
Ranvir. What a beautiful dance, she is so elegant and precise in ballroom, I loved it.
Maisie. Loved the look with the blonde hair. The dance was incredible, as the judges said it was difficult  and she was brilliant, probably her best so far for me.
Bill. I felt really uncomfortable watching this tonight. It probably doesn’t help him that I can’t tske my eyes of Oti, amazing dress, amazing legs which go on forever and she has a lovely bum, no I’m not gay, im just jealous of anyone with a lovely bum as I don’t seem to have one at all and her dress really showed it off. I think he has slipped the last couple of weeks but the judges seemed full of praise so what do I know?
HRVY. OMG another fantastic dance and as @eggyg says the lifts were brilliant. Loved the outfits, the music and the routine. Think Janette is a great pro too.
Jamie, I also do not know this musical though my friend has spoken about it but I’ve never heard the music. As usual he put everything into it but is falling behind compared to most of the others.
I believe the leaderboard had it right this week and that JJ and Jamie will be in the bottom two but wouldn’t be shocked if Bill was in it this week.
Loved Tess’s dress and thought Shirley looked really good.
All in all another great show.


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## eggyg (Dec 5, 2020)

SueEK said:


> Just finished watching Strictly. My comments for what they’re worth.
> JJ. Considering the limitations he has, which are rarely mentioned, I thought he did extremely well though as the judges said it was a bit stop and start.
> Ranvir. What a beautiful dance, she is so elegant and precise in ballroom, I loved it.
> Maisie. Loved the look with the blonde hair. The dance was incredible, as the judges said it was difficult  and she was brilliant, probably her best so far for me.
> ...


I too am envious of Oti’s bum. I don’t have a bottom to speak of neither.


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## freesia (Dec 5, 2020)

I agree with you @eggyg and @rebrascora, JJ and Jamie in the dance off this week i think. I loved Ranvir's dance, so elegant. I felt for Bill tonight. I think he's really good, the Argentine Tango is a dramatic dance and it must be hard for a male celebrity to master.  HRVY was the winner for me tonight, followed by Ranvir. Maisie was great, her stamina is amazing!


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## freesia (Dec 5, 2020)

freesia said:


> I agree with you @eggyg and @rebrascora, JJ and Jamie in the dance off this week i think. I loved Ranvir's dance, so elegant. I felt for Bill tonight. I think he's really good, the Argentine Tango is a dramatic dance and it must be hard for a male celebrity to master.  HRVY was the winner for me tonight, followed by Ranvir. Maisie was great, her stamina is amazing!


Sorry @SueEK , meant you, not @rebrascora, though i'm not ignoring any critique from @rebrascora. Oh i need to stop i'm confusing myself


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## freesia (Dec 5, 2020)

eggyg said:


> I too am envious of Oti’s bum. I don’t have a bottom to speak of neither.


I am envious, mine is too large!! Would love her legs as well


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## rebrascora (Dec 5, 2020)

@freesia 
Sadly I am just reading the critiques of others here to get my Strictly fix as I have no TV to watch it on.   
Yes, I would love Oti's long legs too. If I had another 4 inches of leg (on both sides obviously!  ) I would be reasonably well proportioned. Doesn't seem to matter how much horse muck I stand in they just won't grow longer!


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## Lanny (Dec 6, 2020)

The vowelless one was again the performance of the night for me: actually thought it was better than last week’s & that was something too; groaned, with the audience, once Craig started moaning & just KNEW it wasn’t a ten from HIM! Yeah, CRH can be a mean old git!  My money is on HRVY winning it this year! 

Oh dear, the Argentine Tangoes, thus far, have been disappointing this series & this is now 2 that I didn’t like: there was a huge disconnect between the music, VERY well performed by Hayley, in particular, & Tommy, as there just wasn’t any passion or intensity!  I like Bill but, had to give that a rare frown from me for that lack lustre performance!

Jamie has now reached his plateau, I feel, as his enthusiasm, & performance, is no longer compensating for lack of technique: it looked madly frenetic & all over the place; think he’ll be in the dance off too!

I quite liked JJ’s Charleston but, would have to agree it was a bit stop & start but, I put that down to the music which is also a bit like that too; thought it was a bit slow for the Charleston & he might be in the dance off too?

Maisie was very good but, unfortunately, I think it’s a bit late for her to move me now: just CANNOT like her performances, for some reason, & if she wins it; I’ll be disappointed & there have been other champions that have left me cold in the past like Harry Judd & Caroline Flack! Their perfection cannot be denied but, didn’t do much for me! 

I think Jay McGuinness is like that for me too but, to be fair, 2015 was the year I gave Strictly a miss mourning the loss of my mum in the summer of that year! But, saw his jive on youtube & it it’s not the best jive I’ve seen: didn’t redo it in the final despite the public’s outcry for it & STILL won it; a bit disrespectful of the public support, I thought!


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## New-journey (Dec 6, 2020)

I love this thread! I am jealous of Oti's bum too, but then jealous of all the professional dancers being able to move so beautifully. I am now a fan of Ranvir as the journey she is on is so amazing. She is really changing and I was in tears last night when she danced. I think Bill might go tonight and he has done well getting this far.


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## eggyg (Dec 6, 2020)

I’m disappointed that JJ has gone. I knew Shirley would chose Jamie as she has favoured him from the start. He won’t win that’s for sure. He isn’t a patch on HRVY, Ranvir and Maisie that’s for sure.


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## SueEK (Dec 6, 2020)

Yes I’m with you there. It was sad to see JJ go, what a nice man who has done extremely well, he and Amy made a good team. Think Jamie has had his day, I would imagine he will be next to go unless someone has a disastrous week next week.


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## Lanny (Dec 6, 2020)

I thought JJ danced much better in the dance off & Jamie was about the same so, would have preferred JJ to have stayed.


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## freesia (Dec 6, 2020)

Jamie and Bill in the dance off next week do we think?


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## trophywench (Dec 7, 2020)

Hear hear @eggyg.  Hardly any sort of physical challenge for Jamie, same as Maisie.  Both young and fit with no 'baggage'.  Neither has HRVY.  Ranvir has come on so much, in so many ways.  The overall standard this year has just been incredible all in all.  Bill has surprised me, but I do seriously wonder if he can improve any more.  We'll see whether doing a full time job on top of learning two new dances proves too much for either of the ladies concerned.


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## eggyg (Dec 12, 2020)

What a brilliant semi final tonight was.

Jamie. Still don’t get him, sorry. Can’t believe he scored more for his salsa than HRVY got for his rhumba. The quick step as a hoe down, hmm....
Ranvir. Oh dear, I felt for her tonight. I thought the waltz was fine but I know nothing about it. Her jive was quite embarrassing, I was trying to do the flicks and kicks for her. I was very frustrated. Think she may be in trouble unfortunately.
Bill. I love Bill but I think he’s gone as far as he can. I didn’t like the tango, maybe because I really don’t like heavy metal music. He has been brilliant and I will always remember The Sugar Hill Gang.
Maisie. She has to be in the final. Her Viennese waltz was outstanding.
HRVY. He’s my winner! I love Janette too and really want her in the final.
Great costumes as usual. The graphics/ special effects have been fab-u-lous this year, darling!


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## Lanny (Dec 12, 2020)

I really enjoyed all but, one of the dances tonight! Even Maisie’s two dances I enjoyed & finally put my finger on why she wasn’t a hit with me before when her footwork was SO much better in her Viennese Waltz; her couple’s choice was really enjoyable too!  I noticed the same thing about both of Jamie’s dances too: his footwork & musicality has improved while his wild enthusiasm has been reigned in a bit so, the energy is still there with less frenetic wildness! I thought HRVY’s Rhumba was very beautiful & marked a bit harshly but, his Charleston was outstanding, making it the performance of the night, for me! Bill I felt was a bit under marked too in both his dances but, to be fair, I don’t have the judges eyes when it comes to the Tango! Ranvir’s Waltz was beautifully danced but, herJive just looked completely wrong & I think she’s most in danger of the dance off! Who the other dance off couple will be; I can’t call it?


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## SueEK (Dec 12, 2020)

I missed the first two dances, will catch up tomorrow. From what I did see I thought HRVY was the best, his rumba I thought was very good as it is so difficult, the comments weren’t that great. Loved his Charleston.
Thought Maisie was very good especially the Viennese waltz but wasn’t that keen on the couples choice.
Bill - the music for the tango really put me off and thought the Charleston was ok.
Jamie, didn’t see th first dance but enjoyed his second.
Ranvir, again didn’t see first dance which I’m sure would have been good as it was a ballroom but I agree that I felt uncomfortable watching her.
I think Ranvir and Jamie will be in the bottom two but again wouldn’t be surprised if Bill was there.  I hope HRVY goes on to win it as he is genuinely a novice and has come far, also really like Janette.


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## freesia (Dec 12, 2020)

I liked Ranvir's Viennese Waltz but agree, her jive was not good. Jamie?...his enthusiasm is great but i just can't warm to him. Bill is really good though i think he's gone as far as he can. The standout dancers for me tonight were Maisie and HRVY. I'm not keen on street/hip hop but Maisie was very good, also her waltz was beautiful. HRVY, i don't like the rhumba as a dance but he did well and his Charleston was A-MAZ-ING Daaaarlings!!! HRVY and Maisie for the final i say, not sure who else would go through


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## trophywench (Dec 13, 2020)

Well - I really didn't 'get' Maisie's first dance - I can't call it 'Street' because it wasn't like any street dancing I've ever witnessed before, and wasn't even entertaining, sorry.  Every other person who has done 'their own thing' has been enjoyable but my absolute fave was Jamie's because I simply never expected he'd be capable of making the necessary shapes !!

I have to say Heavy Metal ain't ever my choice - but there again - the dance suited it and it did suit Bill no end !!

Could be him and Ranvir ....


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## SueEK (Dec 13, 2020)

Just caught up on the two dances I didn’t see and what a couple of great ones. Ranvir’s waltz was wonderful and very moving, loved it.
Jamie’s salsa really surprised me I thought he was really good and the song is one of my all time favourites.
Will be interesting to see who misses out tonight


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## C&E Guy (Dec 13, 2020)

Am I  the only one who gets annoyed by " the leaderboard"? Its not a leaderboard if it shows everyone. It's the scoreboard.

Likewise, it's not a semi final. You don't have two semis with the winners going into the final.

And the Dance Off between 2 couples. How can the "best" couple win?


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## Chris Hobson (Dec 13, 2020)

I quite like Enter Sandman and they seemed to make it work for the tango. Interestingly it is not uncommon for rock bands to do gentler songs in 3/4 time that could be used for waltzing. Metallica did Nothing Else Matters, Bon Jovi did This Ain't a Love Song and Bed of Roses.


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## freesia (Dec 13, 2020)

I'm looking forward to the final next week. I have one person in mind for winning, i think it will be HRVY


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## SueEK (Dec 13, 2020)

Can’t believe next week is already the final, it’s been great as always. I’m glad Jamie got through though don’t think he has a chance of wiNing. Looking forward to next week


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## Lanny (Dec 13, 2020)

Ooohhh! That was a close one to call! 

I’m very pleased to see Jamie through to the final!  Of course I don’t have the judges eyes but, to me Jamie improved his dance & I couldn’t tell a difference in Ranvir’s dance! But, I’m reminded of the most honest & apt thing that Craig once said about the dance off in that it’s a bit late & too much to ask for someone to suddenly improve their technique in one night between Saturday & the dance off on Sunday & the only the only thing you can realistically work on & improve is the performance! That is, of course, unless an obvious mistake was made on Saturday night that you get right on Sunday! I’ve never seen Craig almost speechless like that before, before he made his choice. I was on tender hooks to see what Shirley’s choice would be until she said what she did & I totally agree: I think Jamie was the right choice!


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## grovesy (Dec 13, 2020)

Lanny said:


> Ooohhh! That was a close one to call!
> 
> I’m very pleased to see Jamie through to the final!  Of course I don’t have the judges eyes but, to me Jamie improved his dance & I couldn’t tell a difference in Ranvir’s dance! But, I’m reminded of the most honest & apt thing that Craig once said about the dance off in that it’s a bit late & too much to ask for someone to suddenly improve their technique in one night between Saturday & the dance off on Sunday & the only the only thing you can realistically work on & improve is the performance! That is, of course, unless an obvious mistake was made on Saturday night that you get right on Sunday! I’ve never seen Craig almost speechless like that before, before he made his choice. I was on tender hooks to see what Shirley’s choice would be until she said what she did & I totally agree: I think Jamie was the right choice!


But they film the dance of on a Saturday!


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## Lanny (Dec 13, 2020)

SueEK said:


> Can’t believe next week is already the final, it’s been great as always. I’m glad Jamie got through though don’t think he has a chance of wiNing. Looking forward to next week


I agree but, like Chris Ramsey, also no realistic chance of winning, I’ll really enjoy seeing Jamie’s dances in the final!


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## SueEK (Dec 13, 2020)

Lanny said:


> I agree but, like Chris Ramsey, also no realistic chance of winning, I’ll really enjoy seeing Jamie’s dances in the final!


Yes I think he has been so positive all the way through and I find his enthusiasm delightful. I think and hope that HRVY will win although Maisie has been extremely good but I’m not a great fan of her, can’t really put my finger on why!!


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## C&E Guy (Dec 13, 2020)

Jaws dropped at that result tonight.

The judges gave them a better score on Saturday and said they'd improved yet voted them out.

Eh?


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## trophywench (Dec 13, 2020)

Sue - I'm with you re Maisie.  I think it's probably the thought that if a teenager can't learn to dance properly with such an experienced professional tutor at her sole disposal for weeks on end, the human race hasn't a chance of surviving.  Just haven't found anything to make me warm to her.  Whereas HRVY (how daft is his name?) Harvey - seems an absolutely lovely lad I'd be more than happy for any of our granddaughters to land up with - were they interested in a long term relationship.


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## SueEK (Dec 13, 2020)

trophywench said:


> Sue - I'm with you re Maisie.  I think it's probably the thought that if a teenager can't learn to dance properly with such an experienced professional tutor at her sole disposal for weeks on end, the human race hasn't a chance of surviving.  Just haven't found anything to make me warm to her.  Whereas HRVY (how daft is his name?) Harvey - seems an absolutely lovely lad I'd be more than happy for any of our granddaughters to land up with - were they interested in a long term relationship.


Yeah he comes across as really genuine. Also helps that my grandson is called Harvey lol. Maisie is apparently Constantine on TikTok doing dancing moves with her mum, that does put me off a bit I confess.


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## eggyg (Dec 13, 2020)

I’m really annoyed Jamie went through. Ranvir was a much better dancer. Seemingly you just need “ enthusiasm” now rather than skill. HRVY to win.


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## Lizzzie (Dec 13, 2020)

I wonder if we are just better conditioned to accept a young, attractive, chirpy boy doing amazingly than we are a young, attractive, chirpy girl re:  the HRVY vs Maisie question.  Women with stunning bodies doing awesomely have often annoyed other women and men alike.  Either way, I'm more inclined to root for Bill or Jamie than either of them;  they strike me as a bit 'cardboard cut-out' ish - blonde, photogenic, cheerful, flawless where as the other two have a bit more individuality.   In fact, to be honest, I'm sorry HRVY and Maisie are both so good at dancing because they both deserve to end up in the final, where as I do like Bill's risk-taking (and sometimes getting it wrong) and Jamie's cheerful effort myself.


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## freesia (Dec 14, 2020)

I love Bill and its good to see someone older in the final


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## New-journey (Dec 14, 2020)

eggyg said:


> I’m really annoyed Jamie went through. Ranvir was a much better dancer. Seemingly you just need “ enthusiasm” now rather than skill. HRVY to win.


Yes, I am with you on this! Ranvir deserved to go through and really sad she went.


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## trophywench (Dec 14, 2020)

I think out of the lot of them, Ranvir's personal 'growth' has been stunning.  She was scared of her own shadow practically at the start and I really think it's done her a LOT of good.

I'm biased in favour of Bill really cos I like him such a lot - didn't know of him really though had heard of him till he was in Never Mind the Buzzcocks and both his humour and intelligence were apparent on that, and they always appeal to me.  If not his hair .....  oh dear, still.  Elderly has been ....  WOW!  He's straightened up no end, now picks his feet up and I reckon, lost weight.  Really slouched when he started - but always had some lovely tailored tops and jackets saying £££ to me through the TV screen even though his bearing didn't show them off to their best.  (Dad's family were tailors, I do truly know the difference)  Now, he does.

Maisie has also had to learn it doesn't come to you on a plate so I was glad about that!  That isn't spiteful by the way - we ALL have to learn that - and we need to since it becomes apparent sooner or later that we all need to work - also Jamie in that one, think a lot of the general public still think he's only a little rich kid whose life has been cushioned by those ££££ so doesn't deserve their vote.  Shame, cos you can't accuse him of not trying, whatever else you may think.  He and Karen's 'free' dance was brilliant.

Bill or HRVY, please!


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## grovesy (Dec 14, 2020)

The only one I really seen in anything before was Ryanair.


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## eggyg (Dec 14, 2020)

grovesy said:


> The only one I really seen in anything before was Ryanair.


@grovesy that made me snort Diet Coke out of my nose! I love predictive text!


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## rebrascora (Dec 14, 2020)

Took me a while to figure it out.... I was almost thinking that perhaps grovesy had shared a flight with one of the contestant's at some time! Doh!

Ooh, diet coke down the nose stings! Ouch! Funny though!


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## grovesy (Dec 14, 2020)

eggyg said:


> @grovesy that made me snort Diet Coke out of my nose! I love predictive text!


Blummy predictive text.


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## SueEK (Dec 14, 2020)

grovesy said:


> Blummy predictive text.


Lol


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## freesia (Dec 19, 2020)

Well....Strictly final tonight. I'm rooting for Bill or HRVY, though they all deserve to win as they are all fantastic dancers!
Going to have to record it and watch it after so won't be looking on here until i've seen it.
See you then!


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## trophywench (Dec 19, 2020)

Same here @freesia.  I am looking forward to watching it as per usual, and I've never done anything to assist anyone to win (ie cast a vote) yet, so I can't very well be ever so grumpy if someone I don't like wins!


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## SueEK (Dec 19, 2020)

The Final - going to do  moments as the show goes along
Feel Maisie took the first round of judges choice, a difficult Samba.
HRVYs jive was great as was Bill’s. Jamie’s Charleston was good but not as good as the others.
Show dance
HRVY was very good but didn’t get that excited sadly though he danced it brilliantly and he did the lifts really well.
Jamie. Great show dance which he did so well. His enjoyment is truly infectious.
Bill. Well that was great, Oti is such a good choreographer, a very different show dance, quite theatrical.
Maisie, another great dance from her but feel it could have been more but definitely danced beautifully.
Couples choice
HRVY - no words just fantastic
Jamie, great performance, full of energy but would have preferred to see a ballroom or Latin for the final.
Bill. Again a superb performance, could t fault it but personally not what I would like to see for a Strictly final.
Maisie. Lovely quickstep and thoroughly enjoyed all her dances tonight.
Can’t call it on who will win, they have all done so well. 
Personally I will be voting for HRVY and Janette, (I would like her to win) and never thought I would say it but I am going to put a vote in for Maisie as well, she has danced beautifully.


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## Lanny (Dec 19, 2020)

Since I have 6 online votes, I decided to give 2 votes each to which couple I enjoyed the most for each dance!

It went down this way, for me:-

Of the judges choice I enjoyed Jamie’s the most & thought he’d improved the most: the others were technically all better than him but, not as big an improvement from when they first did the dances; in a way they didn’t have as much room for improvement as they were very good to start with! So, 2 votes for Jamie for that dance.

Of the show dances it was definitely Bill’s I enjoyed the most & I’d even say it was the performance of the night, for me, by a whisker over HRVY’s celeb’s choice! Although I really enjoyed Jamie’s too! So, 2 votes for Bill for that dance.

Finally the celeb’s choice it was absolutely HRVY for me & I could even see the improvement & why Craig didn’t give it a 10 the first time round: was very annoyed with him at the time; saw what he meant, though when it was MUCH smoother tonight! Although I really enjoyed Jamie’s & Bill’s dances as well! So, 2 votes for HRVY for that dance.

I’ve already said that it was a close run thing, for me, for the best performance of the night & it was Bill’s Show Dance by a whisker over HRVY’s American Smooth because it was completely different & brand new for everybody to watch!

I didn’t like it as much when the Final was changed to the celeb’s choice being the last dances instead of the Show Dance as THAT is the only dance being danced for the first time & has lost its impact, some what!

I can’t call it as to who’ll win but, it would be nice to have Janette win during her very first final!


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## SaraKaya (Dec 19, 2020)

Well done Bill Bailey! A West Country boy wins!! Just lovely to have sparkle and joy back even if it’s only for a Saturday night! 
I might have 2 squares of 85% chocolate to celebrate!!!
Sara


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## Lanny (Dec 19, 2020)

Wow! Two back to back wins for Oti & her sister Mozi was crying buckets! 

Am I right in thinking that Bill at 55 is the oldest winner of Strictly? 

THAT show dance of his where he REALLY did pull it out of the bag must have been the pivotal dance that got him the votes to win!


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## SaraKaya (Dec 19, 2020)

He is indeed the oldest winner of strictly! I think he is what the show is all about it’s the JOURNEY we all like. A non dancer who we all thought was going to be the comedy element of the show!
I am going to get some sequins and see them on my anorak!


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## Lanny (Dec 19, 2020)

Oh! I did say before that I didn’t even know Bill is a comedian, before Strictly, as I only knew him as a musician that used to present on Classic FM! So, I didn’t really get why everybody was SO surprised he took Strictly so seriously!  He did a really good programme on Classic FM Bill Bailey’s Guide to The Orchestra that was very popular!


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## Chris Hobson (Dec 19, 2020)

I wanted Bill and Oti to win so I came away happy. Now I'm left thinking about a song by a band called Sandra's Wedding.

When the curtains pull I sing my sweet refrain, 
Oh push the door to love I'm cold again,
When the words dry up we'll always have the rain, 
And how Saturday night television is not the same. 

Saturday night television won't be the same until next year.


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## eggyg (Dec 19, 2020)

Wow oh wow! What a final! Thrilled for Bill, after his show dance I said he was going to win. To me he was humble, calm and seemed to just enjoy it for what it was. I still got a shock when he did,  as technically HRVY and Maisie were better but Bill was probably more relatable to the Strictly demographic. Fantastic show and after today’s news, much needed  Roll on next year.


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## trophywench (Dec 19, 2020)

Well throughout we've personally rooted for Bill (his name is really Mark but when he was little a teacher at school called him Bill cos of the song and it stuck LOL) all along, but both said, it really was in the lap of the Gods tonight, cos there was nowt to choose between any of em.


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## freesia (Dec 19, 2020)

Oh wow. Recorded it and just watched it back. FABU-LOUS!! I really enjoyed all of the dances and it was really hard to call this year. Bill was fantastic although so was everyone else. A good win for us old uns. Congratulations to all finalists though. HRVY and Maisie were briliant


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## SB2015 (Dec 20, 2020)

Loved it all.  I watched it quite late so glad I didn’t check in here before doing so.
It was a close call for me between Maisie, HRVY and Bill, but so pleased Bill won.

Loved all the extras too and pleased that Nicola got a chance to dance again. 
I don’t think she would have made the final.

Very pleased that they managed to keep it going through the weirdness of this year. 
do you think that was why Boris set the lockdown at Midnight? So that Strictly final could still go ahead?


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## eggyg (Dec 20, 2020)

SB2015 said:


> Loved it all.  I watched it quite late so glad I didn’t check in here before doing so.
> It was a close call for me between Maisie, HRVY and Bill, but so pleased Bill won.
> 
> Loved all the extras too and pleased that Nicola got a chance to dance again.
> ...


I thought that too funnily enough. Imagine if he hadn’t, there’d have been a mutiny!


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