# Breakfast Cereals



## newbs (Feb 26, 2013)

I've been advised by my consultant to cut out breakfast cereals as I always get a spike followed by a quick drop to hypo after eating them.  The problem is I LOVE my cereal in the mornings.  Are there any cereals out there that any of you have found don't cause a massive spike?  She said porridge would be ok and I like that but don't want it everyday.  The recommendation was carbs and protein but I'm not a big eater at breakfast so would rather exhaust the cereal possibilities first.


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## LeeLee (Feb 26, 2013)

Quick answer... none of the nice ones!

You might try Grape-Nuts - you don't need much (10g is enough for me) sprinkled on yogurt and berries.  Stays crunchy.


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## AlisonF (Feb 26, 2013)

Cereal is a nightmare. I find adding a small handful of nuts (almonds, brazils etc) to a bowl of cereal such as Special K or porridge helps to reduce the spike. The added fat from the nuts slows the absorbtion of the carbs.

Also, I tend to bolus at least 30mins before eating cereal, that helps reduce the spike a bit too.


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## hophead (Feb 26, 2013)

I can recommend low GL Granola...
http://lizis.co.uk/index.php/my-granola
VERY tasty and lots better than Weetabix!


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## DeusXM (Feb 26, 2013)

All cereals are essentially just a bowl of sugar (that's all that grain is, biologically speaking) so I think you'll find it very hard to avoid a spike with these foods. A better bet would be either portion control (ie small portion of cereal), or it might be time to look at alternatives. These don't need to be heavy - you might do much better with a piece of toast (not with marmalade or jam though!), or something like yoghurt. 

Personally I always prefer to go for fat and protein in the morning with a very, very small bolus - it's much more manageable that way. So a handful of nuts can be good (I like pistachios and peanuts). Or depending on time, you could have a boiled egg or an omelette. And don't be afraid to try non-traditional breakfast foods - a regular go-to staple snack of mine for any time of the day is ham, salami or chorizo wrapped in a slice of edam.


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## newbs (Feb 26, 2013)

Thanks everyone, some things to try, and think about.  It's a shame that there isn't a decent breakfast cereal out there that is not full of sugar!  

Will bolus a while before breakfast tomorrow and then start trying the alternative breakfasts when I next go shopping!


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## Dory (Feb 26, 2013)

I eat All Bran and Weetabix Crunchy Bran - both are relatively good for you and you can put some fruit in it to mix it up (the cereal balances out the higher GI of any fruit you add).  Don't know All Bran off heart but 35g of crunchy bran is 20g CHO.


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## DeusXM (Feb 27, 2013)

> It's a shame that there isn't a decent breakfast cereal out there that is not full of sugar!



It's nothing to do with whether sugar is added or not. Cereal is made from wheat, a carbohydrate. All carbohydrates break down to sugar in the blood. Even something like shredded wheat, which has no added sugar, has around 40g of carbs in it per portion. 

To put that in context, a Mars Bar also has 40g of carbs, so effectively, there's little difference in blood sugar terms between eating a Mars Bar or a bowl of Shredded Wheat for breakfast. Granted, the Shredded Wheat will take slightly longer to hit your blood sugar, but not by much.


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## bennyg70 (Feb 27, 2013)

AlisonF said:


> Cereal is a nightmare. I find adding a small handful of nuts (almonds, brazils etc) to a bowl of cereal such as Special K or porridge helps to reduce the spike. The added fat from the nuts slows the absorbtion of the carbs.
> 
> Also, I tend to bolus at least 30mins before eating cereal, that helps reduce the spike a bit too.



I can vouch for Alisons advice here - It certainly works for me + I keep small portions max 15 - 20 G carbs of cereal. If im hungry Ill top up with a side of raspberries or something like that.


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## Dory (Feb 27, 2013)

DeusXM said:


> It's nothing to do with whether sugar is added or not. Cereal is made from wheat, a carbohydrate. All carbohydrates break down to sugar in the blood. Even something like shredded wheat, which has no added sugar, has around 40g of carbs in it per portion.
> 
> To put that in context, a Mars Bar also has 40g of carbs, so effectively, there's little difference in blood sugar terms between eating a Mars Bar or a bowl of Shredded Wheat for breakfast. Granted, the Shredded Wheat will take slightly longer to hit your blood sugar, but not by much.



Yes, technically the mars bar and bowl of cereal may have the same amount of carbs in grams, but the effect it has on your blood sugar is in fact VERY different.   Shredded wheat will take a LOT longer to hit your blood, not slightly longer, as you suggest, by comparison.  A mars bar will peak in your system and be out within about 1 1/2hrs, causing your sugar levels to spike drastically then drop equally as drastically.  A bowl of shredded wheat however will cause a very gradual rise, over a few hours, and have a subsequent very gradual drop, being out of your system by about 3-4 hours.

This is because the molecules of carbs in mars bar (being 'simple') take a lot less time to break down and be transported round your body, whereas the molecules in shredded wheat are 'complex' by comparison and take longer to break down.


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## Phil65 (Feb 27, 2013)

newbs said:


> I've been advised by my consultant to cut out breakfast cereals as I always get a spike followed by a quick drop to hypo after eating them.  The problem is I LOVE my cereal in the mornings.  Are there any cereals out there that any of you have found don't cause a massive spike?  She said porridge would be ok and I like that but don't want it everyday.  The recommendation was carbs and protein but I'm not a big eater at breakfast so would rather exhaust the cereal possibilities first.



most cereals are out for me too.......but two cereals that don't spike me are porridge (proper porridge....not the microwave rubbish) and Cheerios (multi grain)...give them a go, you never know! And they are quite nice


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## everydayupsanddowns (Feb 27, 2013)

I still pretty much stand by my conclusion that *All Cereal Is Evil*

Burgen toast for me - even with a decent amount of marmalade etc gives me far less problem. 

However, if you are stuggling to wean yourself off, one of the 'least worst' for me was Dorset Cereals no-added sugar muesli (the 'nutty' one). Still a hefty kick from the raisins etc, but a slightly lower carb load because of the higher nut content. Eating it with full fat yoghurt slowed the carbs a little.

Oh and +1 to injecting early. This is especially important for me at breakfast time.


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## DeusXM (Feb 27, 2013)

> Shredded wheat will take a LOT longer to hit your blood, not slightly longer, as you suggest, by comparison. A mars bar will peak in your system and be out within about 1 1/2hrs, causing your sugar levels to spike drastically then drop equally as drastically. A bowl of shredded wheat however will cause a very gradual rise, over a few hours, and have a subsequent very gradual drop, being out of your system by about 3-4 hours.



Actually this varies from person to person - and in any case, I've certainly found that healthcare professional massively overstate how 'gradual' a rise is. There is a lot of nonsense from dieticians about how wonderful and gradual complex carbs are for keeping your blood sugar steady whereas anyone who's eaten a baguette sandwich can probably testify to just how un-gradual and how sky-high steady a complex carb can be.

If I eat bowl of shredded wheat, in 30 minutes my blood sugar will strike from 5.0 to 12.0 and then gradually comes down over four hours, provided I've bolused enough. The ONLY way I've found that keeps my blood sugar steady and in a sensible range is to scale back on both complex and simple carbohydrates. Of course, everyone is different.

I appreciate there are crucial differences between sweets and cereals but I'm trying to illustrate that the belief in sugar is the problem is wrong. Everyone with diabetes needs to understand that there's no such thing as good or bad carbs (ie sugar = bad, wheat = good). There are only carbs whose digestion profile matches your insulin action profile, and those that don't. In my experience, very few types of carbs match neatly with the way insulin works in me. Certainly bread, potatoes, cereal and pasta don't for me, although rice and noodles, interestingly, do.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Feb 27, 2013)

Dory said:


> Yes, technically the mars bar and bowl of cereal may have the same amount of carbs in grams, but the effect it has on your blood sugar is in fact VERY different.   Shredded wheat will take a LOT longer to hit your blood, not slightly longer, as you suggest, by comparison.  A mars bar will peak in your system and be out within about 1 1/2hrs, causing your sugar levels to spike drastically then drop equally as drastically.  A bowl of shredded wheat however will cause a very gradual rise, over a few hours, and have a subsequent very gradual drop, being out of your system by about 3-4 hours.
> 
> This is because the molecules of carbs in mars bar (being 'simple') take a lot less time to break down and be transported round your body, whereas the molecules in shredded wheat are 'complex' by comparison and take longer to break down.



I suspect that Deus picked a Mars bar quite deliberately. Sugary, yes, but the high fat content in chocolate slows down the absorption of the sugar (which is only half glucose anyway, and reasonably slowly absorbed).

Sydney university GI info

Shredded wheat: GI 67
http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php?num=857&ak=detail

Mars Bar: GI 62
http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php?num=1727&ak=detail

So the *Mars bar* is, when averaged across 10 people, *more slowly* absorbed under lab conditions.

Instinctively it might not make any sense... and yes we are continually told how slowly absorbed 'brown things' are. But unfortunately (and counter-intuitively) it just doesn't stack up when you examine the effects on people's BG in a lab.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Feb 27, 2013)

Just dug up an old article which I found very interesting about the whole 'wholewheat' thing. Goes into a bit of detail about the way wheat is made up (which is particularly easy for us to digest it seems...)



> _In fact, in my view, there is virtually no difference from a blood sugar standpoint between whole grain bread and cookies: It's all the same. It does not mean that chocolate chip cookies are good for you; it means that both bread and cookies have equal blood sugar implications. _



http://www.healthcentral.com/cholesterol/c/7986/112680/carbohydrates


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## Dory (Feb 27, 2013)

accept your point that all people are different but white bread - particularly baguette bread - is not a complex carb!  it is a very refined 'simple' carb and one of the most refined carbs in the bread 'family'.

complex carbs are those found in wholegrains, lentils, raw 'unrefined' cereals (not cereals as in Crunchy Nute etc but oats, bran, wheat etc) etc - as I said, ones that take longer to break down.  Ie those with a low GI value (which is why medical bodies recently are starting to advocate diabetics eating low GI carbs, rather than their mantra of years ago that diabetics need to eat lots of carbs full stop).


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## Dory (Feb 27, 2013)

Mike - interesting about the testing done on wheat.  I eat very little wheat anyway as I'm quite wheat intolerant and don't like the side effects!  But when I tried a bowl of fruitful shredded wheat a while ago I found that didn't keep me full up at all - suggesting that it's relatively simple carbs (as the tests suggest).


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## DeusXM (Feb 27, 2013)

I'm not sure I agree, sorry.

Bread and cereal are both the same 'complex' carb - starch. And starch metabolises to glucose very quickly. If you lick a piece of bread (of any colour) or potato, within five minutes, the area you lick will smell sweet because the amylase in saliva breaks down starch to glucose. In other words, the conversion process to glucose begins before you even swallow the food!

The difference is whether you are eating grains in their raw form - they obviously have a fibrous shell which slows down their digestion. But in foods like cereal or bread, these are processed, thus breaking down the shell. Eating wheat seeds is one thing. Eating Shredded Wheat is quite another.

I take on board the point that foods with a higher fibre content (say, wholemeal bread, all-bran) will generally have lower GIs but in my personal experience, a slightly higher level of fibre doesn't make a substantial difference to the end result on my blood sugar. Fruit is low GI, technically, but my experience with many supposedly low-GI fruits tells me that low GI does not necessarily indicate being easier on blood sugar. 

This may not be the case for everyone, so the central point is that if your food has had any sort of preparation and contains carbohydrates of any kind, you need to test and see its effect on you - you cannot safely assume that because something is low-GI, wholegrain or 'brown' that it will always be better for you than a 'white' alternative.


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## bennyg70 (Feb 27, 2013)

DeusXM said:


> I'm not sure I agree, sorry.
> 
> Bread and cereal are both the same 'complex' carb - starch. And starch metabolises to glucose very quickly. If you lick a piece of bread (of any colour) or potato, within five minutes, the area you lick will smell sweet because the amylase in saliva breaks down starch to glucose. In other words, the conversion process to glucose begins before you even swallow the food!
> 
> ...



Lol im going to lick some food later!!

Hvae to agree on the mars bars etc though, I dont spike really off chocolates like mars's in comparison to cereals by themselves. The fat in the mars bar help even out the curves. Thats why they are no good for me when correcting a low. 

However we are all different... Some people dont suffer the horrendous delayed spikes that I do after eating fatty meals, Lucky them! However I can eat a mars bar and other chocolates and not spike so bad... Lucky me!!


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## LeeLee (Feb 27, 2013)

What I really want RIGHT NOW is a huge bowl of Crunchy Nut Cornflakes... good thing I'm too lazy to go out and get some!!!


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## Dory (Feb 27, 2013)

mmmmm crunchy nut............

you've got me started now!


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## newbs (Feb 27, 2013)

Phil65 said:


> most cereals are out for me too.......but two cereals that don't spike me are porridge (proper porridge....not the microwave rubbish) and Cheerios (multi grain)...give them a go, you never know! And they are quite nice



I tried the microwave rubbish this morning, didn't spike but definitely didn't enjoy!  Will try multi-grain Cheerios, the kids might like them too .


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## newbs (Feb 27, 2013)

Dory said:


> I eat All Bran and Weetabix Crunchy Bran - both are relatively good for you and you can put some fruit in it to mix it up (the cereal balances out the higher GI of any fruit you add).  Don't know All Bran off heart but 35g of crunchy bran is 20g CHO.



Haven't seen Weetabix Crunchy Bran, will have a look for that tomorrow.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Feb 27, 2013)

newbs said:


> Haven't seen Weetabix Crunchy Bran, will have a look for that tomorrow.



They are little brown 'curls'. Quite high in fibre and tasty, but very processed so I'd kinda expect a hefty spike from them myself - be interested to see how you get on with them


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## FM001 (Feb 27, 2013)

Probably never tried 90% of the cereals on sale, tend to stick with scotch porridge oats or all bran, failing that 2 slices of toast with peanut butter or marmite smothered all over.


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## delb t (Feb 27, 2013)

H has ready brek [honey one] which must be v sugary- this never sends him high is it because he has A muffin [toasting one ] and a banana with it?- hes a growing lad before you all think im overfeeding him


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## Vix (Feb 27, 2013)

I have the opposite problem, I was having yogurt for breakfast as I'm not very hungry in a morning and was told that this wasn't enough so I should start eating cereal... I am trying shreddies at the moment but have got a sudden spike followed by a low on 80% of the days... 

I was on 2 injections a day for so long (I have a needle phobia which stopped me switching to 4 for way too long) that I am really struggling to calculate my insulin to carb ratio let alone what type of carbs they should be! I have an appointment with a dietician on Monday so fingers crossed I won't feel such a newbie to it all soon and can get my hba1c below 9!! 

If you could recommend anything for breakfast (cereal or otherwise) what would it be - for someone who doesn't have a big appetite in the morning?

xx


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## Dory (Feb 27, 2013)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> They are little brown 'curls'. Quite high in fibre and tasty, but very processed so I'd kinda expect a hefty spike from them myself - be interested to see how you get on with them



Mike interestingly I find that they don't spike me at all.  They are advertised as helping lower cholesterol levels so maybe there's something in them that reduces the spiking (as I agree, they are somewhat 'processed' compared to eg natural muesli, jumbo oats etc)

but rather yummy 

Also, and for others to note, I'm limited on choices for what I can and can't eat due to the SW diet so what I suggest is simply good for me on my limitations and might not be the best option out of all possible varieties for diabetes!


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## delb t (Feb 27, 2013)

Vix- have you ever been taught how to carb count? or been on any courses? DAfNE etc if no then push to get yourself on one


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## Dory (Feb 27, 2013)

slightly off subject but I looked up DAFNE courses as I was interested in seeing how it differed (if at all) from the scant advice I was given from my DSN.  the website said that unless you were registered at the surgery or hospital etc where the clinic was run from, you couldn't get a place!

Is that right?  Shame if so.....


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## Vix (Feb 27, 2013)

I was given a workbook but I haven't actually done the course as at the time I couldn't take a week off work (I've had major surgery on my hip 3 times in recent years which has resulted in over 18months off work so once I was back there was no chance of getting more time off!) but now I am self employed I am going to mention it to my DSN next week as I've not heard anything but good things about it. At the moment I have the carbs and cals book which I use but that is about it...

That does seem unfair if only certain people are entitled to get a place??

xx


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## delb t (Feb 27, 2013)

well see what you can push for - peeps on here say its been good - our experience gained from dieticians you could fit on the healthy eating plate!


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## Dory (Feb 27, 2013)

this is the site:

http://www.dafne.uk.com/all-courses.html

specifically it says _'If you do not receive your care from a current DAFNE centre you cannot access a DAFNE course. DAFNE can only be offered by a diabetes unit that have DAFNE trained educators and doctors_.'

frustrating!


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## newbs (Feb 28, 2013)

Tried granola this morning, tropical version, and BG went from 7.9 to 11 within 2 hours, back down to 5 an hour after that so not great - but better than cornflakes as it usually goes as high as 16 with them.  I did forget to inject 30 mins before though so will try that tomorrow to see what difference it makes.


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## newbs (Mar 4, 2013)

Since injecting 30 mins before breakfast each day the spike has been replaced by a hypo mid-morning so now starting to reduce NR.  I've been sticking to tropical fruit granola for the time being so that I know what the effect is of 1 breakfast cereal before moving on to another.


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## Dory (Mar 8, 2013)

Hi all, 

just thought Id' give you an update on my current cereal de choix....Weetabix Crunchy Bran.  Mike you said you'd be interested in hearing what that does to bG levels, well, I can proudly confirm my readings this morning were as follows:

6.45 - 5.2 (had 35g Crunchy Bran, 170ml skimmed milk and a sliced banana)
7.45 - 6.5
9.15 - 4.9

so it looks as though for me, CB is the perfect cereal...although this being diabetes, this might not work for others.

But what I would say is that if you're lookngi for a good brekkie cereal and like CB, give it a go.


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## Northerner (Mar 8, 2013)

Impressive!


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## Dory (Mar 8, 2013)

thanks!  a rare occurrence for me!


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## DeusXM (Mar 8, 2013)

That is some AWESOME matching of your bolus there!

Are you doing anything special (injecting earlier etc.) or is this straight off the bat?


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## Dory (Mar 8, 2013)

thanks Deus!

I use a pump so I pump just as I'm about to eat.  I'm on a 1:8 bolus ratio (although contemplating whether to change to 1:9 as I did have to eat a few grapes mid morning as I thought I felt a bit funny  - and have noticed a trend where this happens).


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## Phil65 (Mar 8, 2013)

Dory said:


> Hi all,
> 
> just thought Id' give you an update on my current cereal de choix....Weetabix Crunchy Bran.  Mike you said you'd be interested in hearing what that does to bG levels, well, I can proudly confirm my readings this morning were as follows:
> 
> ...



Mmmmmm might have to try these.......Cheerios and proper porridge are the only cereals I can eat without a spike!


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## Dory (Mar 9, 2013)

good luck Phil - let us know whether they work for you!


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## trophywench (Mar 9, 2013)

Well my fallback brekkie is ONE Weetabix and hot milk and although it does indeed raise my BG it isn't all that fast really (about 90 mins) or more than 2, so that's ok.  18g with the milk.

Or one slice of toast with a smear of marmlade, call that 20,  but that goes up 3 within the hour.

Of course if you want it to fill you up for a lon time, you should always choose protein above carb, cos that does it.  Cook a frittata, cut it into portions, fridge it and have a slice for brekkie.

Or cheese on Ryvita.

You should always always eat breakfast - eldest daughter has just lost 5 stone by eating brekkie!  Didn't change anything else cos there wasn't owt to change.  She added the brekkie first cos she assumed she'd need to cut down on summat else and voila!  Dropped off her.

Doesn't need to be much - but it must be enough to kick your metabolism up the backside.  You could always have a larger portion of fruit and yoghurt, but esp if you put the fruit in yourself and therefore have more fruit as well as yog - try a full fat one not a low fat whatever the dietitian says - cos the fat will then slow down the sugar in the fruit!


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## trophywench (Mar 9, 2013)

Dory said:


> slightly off subject but I looked up DAFNE courses as I was interested in seeing how it differed (if at all) from the scant advice I was given from my DSN.  the website said that unless you were registered at the surgery or hospital etc where the clinic was run from, you couldn't get a place!
> 
> Is that right?  Shame if so.....



Well all hospitals are sposed to offer carb counting courses Dory, they may not actually be DAFNE but there are many courses which also meet all the NHS guidelines these days - a lot of them are firmly based on BERTIE, and the people at Bournemouth train the HCPs delivering it.

With either course once the HCPs are signed off as being competent (and yes, BDEC or DAFNE staff come to the hospital and witness the staff delivering a course or two to real live patients before they sign em off) they are on their own to a large degree, the difference being the BDEC courses are cheaper because the hospital have to produce all their own written materials and call their course something else, not BERTIE - whereas all the DAFNE material is branded and you have to use it - the hospital/PCT have to pay for it too!  (dunno how true this is but yonks ago I was told that a blank DAFNE flipchart costs over ?250)

If you want to do it but there isn't one convenient in your area, then do the BDEC one online.  I did that first then the local offering, and the one I attended has much more in it than the online one, it has to be said - a lot more anatomy for starters - but it is most certainly a lot better than nowt.  You do get lots of 1 to 1 and also learn things from what other people do that works for them (or doesn't) in whatever circs - like on here but in person LOL


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## Dory (Mar 9, 2013)

thanks TW.  i think from the sounds of it my hospital runs the BDEC/DIY course - they did briefly show me non TM'd pics of plates to eyeball food, but that was it.  3 or 4 pics from memory, which took about 10 minutes, then i was given a 10(ish) page A5 booklet with 'common' foods in it (it didn't have things like aubergine so that sat on my shelf for a few weeks then went in the bin as I went onlnie to build my own glossary).

But have now got Carbs and Cals and this site so am armed and ready to tackle whatever D throws at me


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## Laura davies (Jun 14, 2014)

I like the new oat bix about 30g carb for 2 no wheat in it. I like 1 in the morning


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## Bloden (Jun 15, 2014)

toby said:


> Probably never tried 90% of the cereals on sale, tend to stick with scotch porridge oats or all bran, failing that 2 slices of toast with peanut butter or marmite smothered all over.



Which peanut butter does everyone eat? I can't find one that doesn't make my bg spike, even the sugar-free ones.


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## KookyCat (Jun 15, 2014)

Bloden said:


> Which peanut butter does everyone eat? I can't find one that doesn't make my bg spike, even the sugar-free ones.



Meridian whole peanut butter, no added salt or sugar and has extra fibre because they include the husk, I also buy their hazelnut butter, cashew butter and pumpkin seed butter (love a nut butter!).  None of these do bad things to my blood sugar, but if I eat a lot of cashew butter it does tip up slightly.  Peanut butter on oat biscuits (Nairn's) is my snack of choice...hmm.  Blimey might need one right now.


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## Bloden (Jun 15, 2014)

Cheers, Kookycat. Will check them out when I'm in UK in July. Mmmmm...cashew sounds lu-ush.


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## KookyCat (Jun 15, 2014)

Bloden said:


> Cheers, Kookycat. Will check them out when I'm in UK in July. Mmmmm...cashew sounds lu-ush.



The cashew is my favourite nom, nom!  Holland and Barrett is the only place I know sells it, but they do some of them in buckets for the super keeno (aka me!).


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## Bloden (Jun 15, 2014)

Buckets?! It's a good thing I'm going in the car!


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## KookyCat (Jun 15, 2014)

Yes, actual buckets, more like a sandcastle bucket than a milk pale but a bucket nonetheless


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