# new member



## hazey59 (Sep 6, 2022)

Hi recently diagnosed as Type 2 with HbA1C of 50. Wanting to avoid medication, deal with a fatty liver and reduce weight. Great to see how other people have managed this already but i do have some questions.


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## Leadinglights (Sep 6, 2022)

hazey59 said:


> Hi recently diagnosed as Type 2 with HbA1C of 50. Wanting to avoid medication, deal with a fatty liver and reduce weight. Great to see how other people have managed this already but i do have some questions.


Welcome to the forum, 50mmol/mol is where I started off and by making some dietary changes I reduced my HbA1C to normal within 6 months with no medication. I followed a low carbohydrate approach following the principals in this link https://lowcarbfreshwell.co.uk/.
Do fire away with your questions.


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## Inka (Sep 6, 2022)

Welcome @hazey59  Ask away! Nothing is too trivial or ‘silly’.


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## hazey59 (Sep 6, 2022)

Hi thank you for your replies. I suspected that I was insulin resistant and have been taking blood glucose readings with the finger prick test for a month. I am not sure how to interpret my results, particularly will i get to a point where my pancreas is reacting properly to what i am eating. As an example, yesterday's readings were 5.9 on waking, 6.4 after my tea at 6pm and 4.2 (my lowest reading yet) after i went for a 30 min walk. This morning my reading on waking is 5 5. Since cutting carbs about 2 months ago i have lost 22lbs which i am very happy about and hope it will help to repair my fatty liver.


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## Nige13 (Sep 6, 2022)

hazey59 said:


> Hi thank you for your replies. I suspected that I was insulin resistant and have been taking blood glucose readings with the finger prick test for a month. I am not sure how to interpret my results, particularly will i get to a point where my pancreas is reacting properly to what i am eating. As an example, yesterday's readings were 5.9 on waking, 6.4 after my tea at 6pm and 4.2 (my lowest reading yet) after i went for a 30 min walk. This morning my reading on waking is 5 5. Since cutting carbs about 2 months ago i have lost 22lbs which i am very happy about and hope it will help to repair my fatty liver.


Hi, well done on the weight loss, that's amazing and as for the rest - sounds perfectly fine to me   I may be corrected though but those BS are very similar to mine and thats is quite good for me 

Welcome to the site also - I am sure you will get the best advice too as people on here are very informative - always check too with your doctor or nurse


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## Eddy Edson (Sep 6, 2022)

hazey59 said:


> Hi thank you for your replies. I suspected that I was insulin resistant and have been taking blood glucose readings with the finger prick test for a month. I am not sure how to interpret my results, particularly will i get to a point where my pancreas is reacting properly to what i am eating. As an example, yesterday's readings were 5.9 on waking, 6.4 after my tea at 6pm and 4.2 (my lowest reading yet) after i went for a 30 min walk. This morning my reading on waking is 5 5. Since cutting carbs about 2 months ago i have lost 22lbs which i am very happy about and hope it will help to repair my fatty liver.


Sounds to me like you've probably nailed it. Well done!


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## Leadinglights (Sep 6, 2022)

It looks like a brilliant result after a relatively short time. With those readings I would expect you should see a really good result in your HbA1C which you should ask for3 months after the first one. 
The thing now is to make it your new normal.


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## Inka (Sep 6, 2022)

hazey59 said:


> Hi thank you for your replies. I suspected that I was insulin resistant and have been taking blood glucose readings with the finger prick test for a month. I am not sure how to interpret my results, particularly will i get to a point where my pancreas is reacting properly to what i am eating. As an example, yesterday's readings were 5.9 on waking, 6.4 after my tea at 6pm and 4.2 (my lowest reading yet) after i went for a 30 min walk. This morning my reading on waking is 5 5. Since cutting carbs about 2 months ago i have lost 22lbs which i am very happy about and hope it will help to repair my fatty liver.



Those are great readings! It sounds like you’re doing fantastically, and that weight loss will have helped you too


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## rebrascora (Sep 6, 2022)

Those are fab results, so many congratulations on managing your levels so well and the amazing weight loss. I would say that you can expect an HbA1c in the normal range if those results are pretty much the norm for you now. Well done! 

Are you wanting to know if you can relax your dietary control a bit now and whether your pancreas will be able to manage? If so, that is something that you will have to experiment with using you BG meter to assess your body's response but those readings are well within the normal range, so you have room to experiment or you may wish to wait until after your next HbA1c result to experiment, so that you can officially see your progress. Keeping the weight off will most likely be key to managing it long term if you want to go back to a more normal diet. Personally I find that I now enjoy eating low carb and feel it is healthier for me in other respects (less joint pain, no more migraines, better skin, stronger bones and teeth) as well as helping with my diabetes management so I prefer to continue low carb for the rest of my life, but you have to find what suits you and your body and your test meter will help you with that.


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## Cherrelle DUK (Sep 6, 2022)

Hi hazey59, welcome to the forum.

Well done on taking action and the results you've got so far! Your numbers seem really good, we've got some info with a handy chart at the bottom on what to aim for which may be quite helpful so do have a look https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/managing-your-diabetes/testing


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## hazey59 (Sep 6, 2022)

rebrascora said:


> Those are fab results, so many congratulations on managing your levels so well and the amazing weight loss. I would say that you can expect an HbA1c in the normal range if those results are pretty much the norm for you now. Well done!
> 
> Are you wanting to know if you can relax your dietary control a bit now and whether your pancreas will be able to manage? If so, that is something that you will have to experiment with using you BG meter to assess your body's response but those readings are well within the normal range, so you have room to experiment or you may wish to wait until after your next HbA1c result to experiment, so that you can officially see your progress. Keeping the weight off will most likely be key to managing it long term if you want to go back to a more normal diet. Personally I find that I now enjoy eating low carb and feel it is healthier for me in other respects (less joint pain, no more migraines, better skin, stronger bones and teeth) as well as helping with my diabetes management so I prefer to continue low carb for the rest of my life, but you have to find what suits you and your body and your test meter will help you with that.


Thank you, i found it really encouraging when you mentioned low carb eating helped with joint pain and migraine as i too suffer with both. Yes you are right, when i lose a few more kgs i will think about adjusting my diet. I think my question about insulin resistance is about whether that can be healed, so that insulin can do its job of opening the cells to allow glucose to be used for fuel. I am also wondering if the low readings i get after exercise, and the weight loss, is proof that this is now happening.


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## hazey59 (Sep 6, 2022)

Cherrelle DUK said:


> Hi hazey59, welcome to the forum.
> 
> Well done on taking action and the results you've got so far! Your numbers seem really good, we've got some info with a handy chart at the bottom on what to aim for which may be quite helpful so do have a look https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/managing-your-diabetes/testing


thank you, the chart is really helpful.


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## harbottle (Sep 6, 2022)

hazey59 said:


> Thank you, i found it really encouraging when you mentioned low carb eating helped with joint pain and migraine as i too suffer with both. Yes you are right, when i lose a few more kgs i will think about adjusting my diet. I think my question about insulin resistance is about whether that can be healed, so that insulin can do its job of opening the cells to allow glucose to be used for fuel. I am also wondering if the low readings i get after exercise, and the weight loss, is proof that this is now happening.


When we exercise, glucose uptake into muscles doesn’t use insulin.


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## hazey59 (Sep 6, 2022)

Leadinglights said:


> Welcome to the forum, 50mmol/mol is where I started off and by making some dietary changes I reduced my HbA1C to normal within 6 months with no medication. I followed a low carbohydrate approach following the principals in this link https://lowcarbfreshwell.co.uk/.
> Do fire away with your questions.


thanks, this site seems very interesting. Thanks for recommending it.


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## rebrascora (Sep 6, 2022)

hazey59 said:


> I think my question about insulin resistance is about whether that can be healed, so that insulin can do its job of opening the cells to allow glucose to be used for fuel.


I think the thing to understand is that your insulin is still doing that job but just a bit less efficiently if you suffer with insulin resistance. There are however several elements to Type 2 diabetes and all the mechanisms are not fully understood, but insulin resistance is one part of it which you may or may not be experiencing. I think of insulin resistance a bit like having a big meal at a friend's house and feeling full but the host encouraging you to have a bit more. The cells get to the point that they are comfortably full of fat stores but the surplus glucose keeps coming and they don't really feel comfortable taking anymore but a persuasive host (insulin) can encourage you to have just a bit more. Exercise uses up some of those stores so the cells feel more comfortable and able to take more glucose without having to be pressured into it by the insulin. I think Professor Roy Taylor talks about an individual fat threshold, which is why some people can be obese and not be diabetic but other people can be barely overweight at all and have reached their fat threshold.   
Another aspect of Type 2 diabetes is the balance and communication between the liver and pancreas. The liver releases glucose in the absence of food to keep vital organs fueled and the pancreas trickles out insulin to cover it but when the liver and pancreas are packed with visceral fat, they don't communicate so well, so the pancreas doesn't produce enough insulin or the liver releases too much glucose or both which results in an imbalance. So it isn't just about insulin resistance and you may even be Type 2 diabetic and not have insulin resistance but have visceral fat causing your liver output and pancreas output to be out of step. I think some people who experience highs and lows when they are first diagnosed may have mostly this problem. 
Anyway, putting less glucose into your blood stream by  eating less carbs means that your cells are not being pressured to take more glucose than they want to and store it as fat and increasing exercise means that they use up some of their stores so they have room to store some excess if you do occasionally have a treat here and there and losing weight will help to burn off the visceral fat and enable the pancreas and liver to communicate better and work in harmony at balancing your BG. Keeping an eye on your BG levels will show you if your body is managing to cope with the glucose you are providing it with and the fasting reading on a morning particularly shows you if your pancreas and liver are managing to balance things. I think if your diabetes has been uncontrolled for a long time and the pancreas has been having to work overtime to overcome insulin resistance, it gets to the stage that it runs dry through persistent overwork and that may be the point at which diabetes is no longer reversible, but in your situation, you are getting good fasting readings and good post meal reading so providing you can maintain the weight loss and not overload your system beyond what it can cope with then it should work reasonably efficiently again. 


The above is very much my own interpretation of how I see the main mechanisms of Type 2 diabetes. I think there may be more factors at play than those 2 main ones of insulin resistance and visceral fat but that is as simple as I can explain it. 

There is every reason to be optimistic with the results you are seeing. How strict with your carb intake are you being to get those numbers?


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## hazey59 (Sep 6, 2022)

Leadinglights said:


> It looks like a brilliant result after a relatively short time. With those readings I would expect you should see a really good result in your HbA1C which you should ask for3 months after the first one.
> The thing now is to make it your new normal.


yes thank you, i am hoping my HbA1c will be significantly lower when test due in early November.


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## hazey59 (Sep 7, 2022)

rebrascora said:


> I think the thing to understand is that your insulin is still doing that job but just a bit less efficiently if you suffer with insulin resistance. There are however several elements to Type 2 diabetes and all the mechanisms are not fully understood, but insulin resistance is one part of it which you may or may not be experiencing. I think of insulin resistance a bit like having a big meal at a friend's house and feeling full but the host encouraging you to have a bit more. The cells get to the point that they are comfortably full of fat stores but the surplus glucose keeps coming and they don't really feel comfortable taking anymore but a persuasive host (insulin) can encourage you to have just a bit more. Exercise uses up some of those stores so the cells feel more comfortable and able to take more glucose without having to be pressured into it by the insulin. I think Professor Roy Taylor talks about an individual fat threshold, which is why some people can be obese and not be diabetic but other people can be barely overweight at all and have reached their fat threshold.
> Another aspect of Type 2 diabetes is the balance and communication between the liver and pancreas. The liver releases glucose in the absence of food to keep vital organs fueled and the pancreas trickles out insulin to cover it but when the liver and pancreas are packed with visceral fat, they don't communicate so well, so the pancreas doesn't produce enough insulin or the liver releases too much glucose or both which results in an imbalance. So it isn't just about insulin resistance and you may even be Type 2 diabetic and not have insulin resistance but have visceral fat causing your liver output and pancreas output to be out of step. I think some people who experience highs and lows when they are first diagnosed may have mostly this problem.
> Anyway, putting less glucose into your blood stream by  eating less carbs means that your cells are not being pressured to take more glucose than they want to and store it as fat and increasing exercise means that they use up some of their stores so they have room to store some excess if you do occasionally have a treat here and there and losing weight will help to burn off the visceral fat and enable the pancreas and liver to communicate better and work in harmony at balancing your BG. Keeping an eye on your BG levels will show you if your body is managing to cope with the glucose you are providing it with and the fasting reading on a morning particularly shows you if your pancreas and liver are managing to balance things. I think if your diabetes has been uncontrolled for a long time and the pancreas has been having to work overtime to overcome insulin resistance, it gets to the stage that it runs dry through persistent overwork and that may be the point at which diabetes is no longer reversible, but in your situation, you are getting good fasting readings and good post meal reading so providing you can maintain the weight loss and not overload your system beyond what it can cope with then it should work reasonably efficiently again.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the explanation. Regarding reducing carb intake, i started cutting out carbs because i read that sugar causes inflammation and my leg muscles were very sore. I asked my GP to do blood tests to find out the cause of the pains which was how the HbA1c was discovered to be 50 along with the fatty liver diagnosis. So cut out sugar, honey, bread, cakes, biscuits, rice, pasta, pastry, cereals and fasted breakfast and lunch to reduce the number of times my insulin was spiked. I drink lemon and ginger tea or green tea at work and eat meat and salad or roast vegetables plus natural yoghurt and berries on an evening. However maybe once a week i will have a baked potato, a few chips, or a small icecream or occasionally a small cake, and then i will test my BS to see what effect those things have had, and most likely will go out for a walk to reduce the figures again.


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## rebrascora (Sep 7, 2022)

That is quite extreme cutting out both breakfast and lunch and just eating low carb on an evening especially when your HbA1c was not desperately high but good that you have been a little flexible with the treats on an evening occasionally. Are you comfortable living like that or is this why you are wanting to know if your pancreas can cope with more? 

Personally I like breakfast (love my Greek yoghurt and berries and seeds and coffee with cream) but not bothered about lunch most days and then I sometimes have a meal in the evening or sometimes just graze throughout the afternoon or evening on low carb foods. I live alone so I can please myself whether I cook a meal or just pick at some snacks. Sometimes I will just have a pot of olives with feta or a plate of broccoli with sour cream and chive dip or some little stuffed peppadew peppers or just a chunk of nice cheese. But I definitely think there is room in your regime to be a little less strict if you want to be. Even if your levels spike up to 10 or 11 very occasionally it isn't a great concern as long as the majority of your levels are in range.


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## hazey59 (Sep 7, 2022)

Yes I agree I have some wiggle room now but for a long time i wasn't able to lose weight and my bmi was 39, so it is very motivating to see the scales gradually drop pounds, knowing that i have both fat in my liver and visceral fat to burn. At last i have found a method that works and i do not feel tired or hungry by not eating till 6 ish as i keep well hydrated during the day. During lockdown i ate what you are eating, greek yoghurt, seeds, nuts, smoothies made of spinach and avocado, strawberries and almond milk but i didn't lose weight. When not trying to eat healthily my whole diet was carb based for every meal and snack, so for me i have spent the last two months experimenting with different foods - like one day i ate 4 ginger biscuits and 6 cream crackers with jam and got my highest ever reading which was 7. Another day i ate chippy fish and chips and my reading was 6.8.
I understand there is something called the Dawn effect where your readings are higher on a morning as your liver releases glucose to start your day but over this time of recording my readings seem to be fairly steady on 5 something each morning.
I was only diagnosed in July so i am trying to understand it all and am grateful that there are experienced people on this site, like yourself, who are willing to share.


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## hazey59 (Sep 10, 2022)

rebrascora said:


> I think the thing to understand is that your insulin is still doing that job but just a bit less efficiently if you suffer with insulin resistance. There are however several elements to Type 2 diabetes and all the mechanisms are not fully understood, but insulin resistance is one part of it which you may or may not be experiencing. I think of insulin resistance a bit like having a big meal at a friend's house and feeling full but the host encouraging you to have a bit more. The cells get to the point that they are comfortably full of fat stores but the surplus glucose keeps coming and they don't really feel comfortable taking anymore but a persuasive host (insulin) can encourage you to have just a bit more. Exercise uses up some of those stores so the cells feel more comfortable and able to take more glucose without having to be pressured into it by the insulin. I think Professor Roy Taylor talks about an individual fat threshold, which is why some people can be obese and not be diabetic but other people can be barely overweight at all and have reached their fat threshold.
> Another aspect of Type 2 diabetes is the balance and communication between the liver and pancreas. The liver releases glucose in the absence of food to keep vital organs fueled and the pancreas trickles out insulin to cover it but when the liver and pancreas are packed with visceral fat, they don't communicate so well, so the pancreas doesn't produce enough insulin or the liver releases too much glucose or both which results in an imbalance. So it isn't just about insulin resistance and you may even be Type 2 diabetic and not have insulin resistance but have visceral fat causing your liver output and pancreas output to be out of step. I think some people who experience highs and lows when they are first diagnosed may have mostly this problem.
> Anyway, putting less glucose into your blood stream by  eating less carbs means that your cells are not being pressured to take more glucose than they want to and store it as fat and increasing exercise means that they use up some of their stores so they have room to store some excess if you do occasionally have a treat here and there and losing weight will help to burn off the visceral fat and enable the pancreas and liver to communicate better and work in harmony at balancing your BG. Keeping an eye on your BG levels will show you if your body is managing to cope with the glucose you are providing it with and the fasting reading on a morning particularly shows you if your pancreas and liver are managing to balance things. I think if your diabetes has been uncontrolled for a long time and the pancreas has been having to work overtime to overcome insulin resistance, it gets to the stage that it runs dry through persistent overwork and that may be the point at which diabetes is no longer reversible, but in your situation, you are getting good fasting readings and good post meal reading so providing you can maintain the weight loss and not overload your system beyond what it can cope with then it should work reasonably efficiently again.
> 
> ...


hi @rebrascora, I just want to thank you for your helpful advice and for mentioning Roy Taylor to me. I looked up his study and it made sense of several other terms i have seen on other forum members posts like reference to Fast 800 or the Newcastle diet. I see that fat in both the liver and pancreas is key to a diabetes diagnosis, so reducing that fat is the main aim of both low calorie intake and weight loss - weight loss then has to be maintained to stay in remission from type 2 diabetes but food intake can be adjusted to suit the individual. For myself i will look at including more healthy carbs like lentils and nuts - neither of which i would have considered in my previous way of eating which was highly (bad) carb based.


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## travellor (Sep 10, 2022)

hazey59 said:


> hi @rebrascora, I just want to thank you for your helpful advice and for mentioning Roy Taylor to me. I looked up his study and it made sense of several other terms i have seen on other forum members posts like reference to Fast 800 or the Newcastle diet. I see that fat in both the liver and pancreas is key to a diabetes diagnosis, so reducing that fat is the main aim of both low calorie intake and weight loss - weight loss then has to be maintained to stay in remission from type 2 diabetes but food intake can be adjusted to suit the individual. For myself i will look at including more healthy carbs like lentils and nuts - neither of which i would have considered in my previous way of eating which was highly (bad) carb based.



Great results!
I lost weight initially, but I found when I finished I still hadn't quite reversed my diabetes.
I mopped it up with the Newcastle diet at the end, which seemed to do the trick.


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## hazey59 (Sep 10, 2022)

@travellor, that's wonderful that you have sustained your results for 8 years, it shows it is worth all the effort because tbh it was just easy for me to grab cereal or pasties previously - i have needed this diabetes scare to motivate me to take my weight gain and eating habits seriously.


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## rebrascora (Sep 10, 2022)

hazey59 said:


> @travellor, that's wonderful that you have sustained your results for 8 years, it shows it is worth all the effort because tbh it was just easy for me to grab cereal or pasties previously - i have needed this diabetes scare to motivate me to take my weight gain and eating habits seriously.


I'm sure many of us can relate to that. It was certainly the kick up the pants I needed.    I feel and look a whole lit better for it, so in fact becoming diabetic has led to me becoming healthier rather than it being an illness.


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## travellor (Sep 10, 2022)

hazey59 said:


> @travellor, that's wonderful that you have sustained your results for 8 years, it shows it is worth all the effort because tbh it was just easy for me to grab cereal or pasties previously - i have needed this diabetes scare to motivate me to take my weight gain and eating habits seriously.



Yes, I got complacent, ( - fat and lazy!).
But, I recognised I'd done it to myself, so mentally for me, it made it easier to get back to what I used to be like.


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## hazey59 (Sep 10, 2022)

travellor said:


> Yes, I got complacent, ( - fat and lazy!).
> But, I recognised I'd done it to myself, so mentally for me, it made it easier to get back to what I used to be like.


My issues were that i didn't fit into my clothes but the principles i was following were not helping me lose weight and that is discouraging. My journey to try cutting out carbs started with finding out sugar is an inflammatory agent and my leg muscles were very sore but a whole year of trying everything else including physio, hydrotherapy, sports massage and visiting a chiropracter had not helped reduce the pain. Then i got the diabetes diagnosis which was the catalyst to tackle my fatty liver which i was diagnosed with a lot of years ago but the Dr didn't advise me how to deal with it at that time.


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## travellor (Sep 10, 2022)

hazey59 said:


> My issues were that i didn't fit into my clothes but the principles i was following were not helping me lose weight and that is discouraging. My journey to try cutting out carbs started with finding out sugar is an inflammatory agent and my leg muscles were very sore but a whole year of trying everything else including physio, hydrotherapy, sports massage and visiting a chiropracter had not helped reduce the pain. Then i got the diabetes diagnosis which was the catalyst to tackle my fatty liver which i was diagnosed with a lot of years ago but the Dr didn't advise me how to deal with it at that time.



I seemed to fair better than most.
I had an excellent surgery.
I went straight onto a low fat diet, was
referred to a dietician, did a lot of NHS type 2 diabetes courses and activities, and an NHS gym.
They didn't come to me though, after I put in the initial work, I think they realised I was seriously looking at lifestyle changes,and I got referred from one course to the next, with my GP's support.
I did the Newcastle diet only own though, using Tesco shakes, it was just after the first handful of subjects results had hit the news.

I can't say sugar was inflammatory for me, and I certainly ate a lot of it!


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## hazey59 (Sep 10, 2022)

travellor said:


> I seemed to fair better than most.
> I had an excellent surgery.
> I went straight onto a low fat diet, was
> referred to a dietician, did a lot of NHS type 2 diabetes courses and activities, and an NHS gym.
> ...


It is a whole new world of learning. Pre July i was oblivious to anything related to diabetes,  and now am constantly following leads that are increasing my understanding like adding pieces to a jigsaw. Finding this site has been exactly what i needed. People are open and honest about their successes and failures which is very refreshing.


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## travellor (Sep 10, 2022)

hazey59 said:


> It is a whole new world of learning. Pre July i was oblivious to anything related to diabetes,  and now am constantly following leads that are increasing my understanding like adding pieces to a jigsaw. Finding this site has been exactly what i needed. People are open and honest about their successes and failures which is very refreshing.



I've always thought there is no point in lying, I'm always brutally honest with my doctor, and even more with myself.


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## hazey59 (Sep 10, 2022)

travellor said:


> I've always thought there is no point in lying, I'm always brutally honest with my doctor, and even more with myself.


yes you don't get anywhere by pretending things are different to what they are, but something has to motivate us to both start a solution and to keep going, and sometimes you know things are not right but it's easier to let them ride and just muddle through....


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## travellor (Sep 10, 2022)

hazey59 said:


> yes you don't get anywhere by pretending things are different to what they are, but something has to motivate us to both start a solution and to keep going, and sometimes you know things are not right but it's easier to let them ride and just muddle through....



Being diagnosed was definitely a turning point.
Overall it was a positive, not a negative thing for me.
I won't say I've kept all the weight off all the time, but I never set out to.
When I hit my limit, I just diet again, and when I'm back down, I relax again.
I have been accused of being a "yo-yo" dieter by some.
I'm just not manic, I know my range, it's not huge, but it's there, I stick to that, it works for me.
I control my diet, and my eating now, it doesn't control me, like it used to when I overate.


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## hazey59 (Sep 10, 2022)

travellor said:


> Being diagnosed was definitely a turning point.
> Overall it was a positive, not a negative thing for me.
> I won't say I've kept all the weight off all the time, but I never set out to.
> When I hit my limit, I just diet again, and when I'm back down, I relax again.
> ...


Yes people are so different aren't they. I was surprised when i read Roy Taylor's study that people who had normal BMIs and weren't overweight also had to lose weight and reduce calories to burn the fat off in their liver and pancreas. It's really good that you can return to base whenever you need to and that you can rely on a method that works. I have lost serious weight three times in the past and it has always gone back on plus more.


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## Graham01 (Sep 10, 2022)

hazey59 said:


> Hi recently diagnosed as Type 2 with HbA1C of 50. Wanting to avoid medication, deal with a fatty liver and reduce weight. Great to see how other people have managed this already but i do have some questions.


Hi Hazey58,
I was at 50 for the HbA1c and type 2, I put in some hard work lost 17lbs and changed my diet,  HbA1c now 41, everything is going well. Go for it you can do it.


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## hazey59 (Sep 10, 2022)

Graham01 said:


> Hi Hazey58,
> I was at 50 for the HbA1c and type 2, I put in some hard work lost 17lbs and changed my diet,  HbA1c now 41, everything is going well. Go for it you can do it.


thank you for your encouragement Graham


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## travellor (Sep 10, 2022)

hazey59 said:


> Yes people are so different aren't they. I was surprised when i read Roy Taylor's study that people who had normal BMIs and weren't overweight also had to lose weight and reduce calories to burn the fat off in their liver and pancreas. It's really good that you can return to base whenever you need to and that you can rely on a method that works. I have lost serious weight three times in the past and it has always gone back on plus more.



My own personal theory is other diets are designed to let you limit calories to achieve a weight loss, then you can get back to normal.

I saw the Newcastle Diet as a different ethos.
It's a diet to reverse diabetes.
So it starts as a total break from food, then a planned re introduction of a healthy diet, after you have made a break with the past.

Other versions are available now, many people have jumped on with different diet plans, real food versions, low carb versions, plant based versions,and it goes on.

Psychologically I needed the break from food.
I had re invented my diet on the previous low fat, I had switched from sugar to spicy, and apart from not quite achieving reversal, I think the actual break from food showed how easy it was to simply switch it on and off when I needed to.
It does make a difference.
There are other reasons, metabolic and changes to exercise as to why weight comes back on, they have been discussed on many threads here as well


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## hazey59 (Sep 10, 2022)

travellor said:


> My own personal theory is other diets are designed to let you limit calories to achieve a weight loss, then you can get back to normal.
> 
> I saw the Newcastle Diet as a different ethos.
> It's a diet to reverse diabetes.
> ...


Do you know the title of any of the threads that discuss weight gain?  one thing i read in a magazine was that afer losing weight it takes less calories to gain a pound than it did before so you could eat exactly the same but put weight on.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Sep 12, 2022)

hazey59 said:


> Do you know the title of any of the threads that discuss weight gain?  one thing i read in a magazine was that afer losing weight it takes less calories to gain a pound than it did before so you could eat exactly the same but put weight on.



Some people talk about the body going into ‘starvation mode’ with a period of restricted calories, where the metabolism sort of ‘slows down’ its basal metabolic rate - but I’m not sure if that is backed up by current research, or is part of weight-loss-culture / diet industry theorising?

The topic comes up here, with a few people’s experiences



			https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/help-weigh-loss-is-not-happening.100033/


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## travellor (Sep 12, 2022)

hazey59 said:


> Do you know the title of any of the threads that discuss weight gain?  one thing i read in a magazine was that afer losing weight it takes less calories to gain a pound than it did before so you could eat exactly the same but put weight on.



@Eddy Edson  is probably the expert on this subject.
He has posted some very good articles on this in the past, and very useful information on how to manage it.
I can't find them at the moment, but hopefully he'll be along soon, and can help again.


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## hazey59 (Sep 12, 2022)

hazey59 said:


> Thank you for the explanation. Regarding reducing carb intake, i started cutting out carbs because i read that sugar causes inflammation and my leg muscles were very sore. I asked my GP to do blood tests to find out the cause of the pains which was how the HbA1c was discovered to be 50 along with the fatty liver diagnosis. So cut out sugar, honey, bread, cakes, biscuits, rice, pasta, pastry, cereals and fasted breakfast and lunch to reduce the number of times my insulin was spiked. I drink lemon and ginger tea or green tea at work and eat meat and salad or roast vegetables plus natural yoghurt and berries on an evening. However maybe once a week i will have a baked potato, a few chips, or a small icecream or occasionally a small cake, and then i will test my BS to see what effect those things have had, and most likely will go out for a walk to reduce the figures again.





everydayupsanddowns said:


> Some people talk about the body going into ‘starvation mode’ with a period of restricted calories, where the metabolism sort of ‘slows down’ its basal metabolic rate - but I’m not sure if that is backed up by current research, or is part of weight-loss-culture / diet industry theorising?
> 
> The topic comes up here, with a few people’s experiences
> 
> ...


Thank you, i will open it later and enjoy reading about other's experiences.


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## hazey59 (Sep 12, 2022)

travellor said:


> @Eddy Edson  is probably the expert on this subject.
> He has posted some very good articles on this in the past, and very useful information on how to manage it.
> I can't find them at the moment, but hopefully he'll be along soon, and can help again.


Thank you Travellor, I will have a look after work, I find the whole topic fascinating, but more so now i am actually losing weight which I haven't done for years!


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## hazey59 (Sep 14, 2022)

hazey59 said:


> Thank you Travellor, I will have a look after work, I find the whole topic fascinating, but more so now i am actually losing weight which I haven't done for years!


il would like to understand what my blood sugar results actually mean - is it usual to have a low reading after my evening meal - in fact the lowest of the day in the 4's - my readings today were 5.3 on waking, 5.7 after a protein snack at 5pm and 4.5 four hours after dinner of steak, a few chips done in the airfryer, broccoli, coleslaw then a yoghurt. Does the 4.5 indicate that insulin has been correctly dispensed to deal with the blood sugar - surely it would be expected that eating the carbs would generally show a higher reading?


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## Drummer (Sep 14, 2022)

hazey59 said:


> il would like to understand what my blood sugar results actually mean - is it usual to have a low reading after my evening meal - in fact the lowest of the day in the 4's - my readings today were 5.3 on waking, 5.7 after a protein snack at 5pm and 4.5 four hours after dinner of steak, a few chips done in the airfryer, broccoli, coleslaw then a yoghurt. Does the 4.5 indicate that insulin has been correctly dispensed to deal with the blood sugar - surely it would be expected that eating the carbs would generally show a higher reading?


Usually, testing is done at two hours after starting to eat a meal as that seems to give the best indication of how the food affected you and how things are changing.
I tweaked my menus until I was seeing under 8 mmol/l at the two hour point, then continued to eat in the same way and my numbers continued to go down as my metabolism, presumably, sorted itself out.
I was pushed to eat low fat, high carb, and restrict calories to lower weight, to the point that I would go deathly pale and weak as my metabolism shut down in protest. 
I am pretty sure that there are many thousands of people who saw it was far easier to put on weight, far harder to maintain exercise and activity after every round of low calorie, because the body protects itself from starvation. Tests done on contestants on that Americal weight loss show did seem to back up the concept as at follow up investigations there was measurable reduction in normal metabolic rate which did not increase once a more normal diet was restored.


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## travellor (Sep 14, 2022)

Drummer said:


> Usually, testing is done at two hours after starting to eat a meal as that seems to give the best indication of how the food affected you and how things are changing.
> I tweaked my menus until I was seeing under 8 mmol/l at the two hour point, then continued to eat in the same way and my numbers continued to go down as my metabolism, presumably, sorted itself out.
> I was pushed to eat low fat, high carb, and restrict calories to lower weight, to the point that I would go deathly pale and weak as my metabolism shut down in protest.
> I am pretty sure that there are many thousands of people who saw it was far easier to put on weight, far harder to maintain exercise and activity after every round of low calorie, because the body protects itself from starvation. Tests done on contestants on that Americal weight loss show did seem to back up the concept as at follow up investigations there was measurable reduction in normal metabolic rate which did not increase once a more normal diet was restored.



I believe that was thoroughly refuted on the last thread you posted that in?
As was "starvation" mode 
The body does change, less weight means less maintenance calories are required overall anyway, and exercise is even more beneficial at maintenance.


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## travellor (Sep 14, 2022)

hazey59 said:


> il would like to understand what my blood sugar results actually mean - is it usual to have a low reading after my evening meal - in fact the lowest of the day in the 4's - my readings today were 5.3 on waking, 5.7 after a protein snack at 5pm and 4.5 four hours after dinner of steak, a few chips done in the airfryer, broccoli, coleslaw then a yoghurt. Does the 4.5 indicate that insulin has been correctly dispensed to deal with the blood sugar - surely it would be expected that eating the carbs would generally show a higher reading?



They are completely non diabetic numbers to be honest.
How was the Hba1c found? 
Was it a routine blood test, or were there other symptoms?


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## everydayupsanddowns (Sep 15, 2022)

hazey59 said:


> il would like to understand what my blood sugar results actually mean - is it usual to have a low reading after my evening meal - in fact the lowest of the day in the 4's - my readings today were 5.3 on waking, 5.7 after a protein snack at 5pm and 4.5 four hours after dinner of steak, a few chips done in the airfryer, broccoli, coleslaw then a yoghurt. Does the 4.5 indicate that insulin has been correctly dispensed to deal with the blood sugar - surely it would be expected that eating the carbs would generally show a higher reading?



Those results look great @hazey59 

Your initial HbA1c of 50 seems to suggest that your body was just beginning to struggle a little. It looks like the changes you have made to your menu have made it possible for your metabolism to cope much better with the food you are eating.

I suspect your next HbA1c will have reduced, and you’ll be getting a gold star and a pat on the back from your nurse. 

It isn’t uncommon to see higher reading around breakfast time - there can be a degree of insulin resistance in the mornings, and the liver can release stored glucose at or before breakfast time to ‘fire up the burners’ for the day.

Be aware of the limitations of home monitors too - results within a few decimal points of each other can easily overlap if the same blood droplet was checked with 2 different strips at the same time.

Well done on your progress so far!


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## hazey59 (Oct 14, 2022)

Leadinglights said:


> It looks like a brilliant result after a relatively short time. With those readings I would expect you should see a really good result in your HbA1C which you should ask for3 months after the first one.
> The thing now is to make it your new normal.


@Leadinglights, thank you, yesterday i got my first three monthly blood check since the diagnosis in July and it had gone down from 50mmol/m to 40mmol/m which i was very pleased about, and now have a weight loss of 33 lbs. As you said it has to become my new normal


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## Leadinglights (Oct 14, 2022)

hazey59 said:


> @Leadinglights, thank you, yesterday i got my first three monthly blood check since the diagnosis in July and it had gone down from 50mmol/m to 40mmol/m which i was very pleased about, and now have a weight loss of 33 lbs. As you said it has to become my new normal


Absolutely brilliant. well done. In the normal zone.


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## rebrascora (Oct 14, 2022)

hazey59 said:


> @Leadinglights, thank you, yesterday i got my first three monthly blood check since the diagnosis in July and it had gone down from 50mmol/m to 40mmol/m which i was very pleased about, and now have a weight loss of 33 lbs. As you said it has to become my new normal


Wow! What absolutely fantastic results. Both the HbA1c reduction and amazing weight loss.... Well done!


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## hazey59 (Oct 14, 2022)

Leadinglights said:


> Absolutely brilliant. well done. In the normal zone.


Thank you.  I am still having abnormal results from fatty liver tests  but not sure how long you have to work at it before you get improvement with the liver. The fasting and weight loss is an attempt to burn off visceral fat around the organs and to get the liver to convert stored glycogen to glucose for the cells to burn off.


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