# ATOS ESA inquisition



## AlisonM (Jan 15, 2013)

So being signed off I had to go jump through ATOS' hoops again (saw them on the 27th) and, just like last time, they say I'm fit for work! The phonecall I had from the DWP today informed me that, had I been measured on my physical limitations there wouldn't have been a problem, but my memory difficulties don't score me any points. To say I'm gobsmacked would be putting it mildly, I'm in shock. I have a serious problem that affects every aspect of my life, endangers my health and makes it impossible for me to carry out my job properly and they say I'm fine? Needless to say, I intend to appeal. Again! And I don't doubt I will win... again!

I thought they were taking mental issues more seriously these days?

All this happened pre  pluerisy so I'm not sure what effect that will have.


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## Northerner (Jan 15, 2013)

I'm disgusted  All these decisions and appeals must be costing more than they are saving, it's just another way of intimidating people on benefits and taking advantage of the most vulnerable.

Good luck with your appeal Ally!


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## Pumper_Sue (Jan 15, 2013)

AlisonM said:


> So being signed off I had to go jump through ATOS' hoops again (saw them on the 27th) and, just like last time, they say I'm fit for work! The phonecall I had from the DWP today informed me that, had I been measured on my physical limitations there wouldn't have been a problem, but my memory difficulties don't score me any points. To say I'm gobsmacked would be putting it mildly, I'm in shock. I have a serious problem that affects every aspect of my life, endangers my health and makes it impossible for me to carry out my job properly and they say I'm fine? Needless to say, I intend to appeal. Again! And I don't doubt I will win... again!
> 
> I thought they were taking mental issues more seriously these days?
> 
> All this happened pre  pluerisy so I'm not sure what effect that will have.



Hi Alison,
            sorry to hear your esa assessment with the t**ers came off badly.
Put in an apeal now as you only have a month from descion date to be able to do this. Your assessment only takes into account what the assessor found or made up on the ay nothing that has happened since.
Do get another sick note from GP and ask dwp for the 85a! (is that the form) and all other info used to come to their conclusion. Ring and ask and also follow up with a written request. Make sure you ask for assessment rate or your money will be stopped.


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## AlisonM (Jan 15, 2013)

I told the lady who called I *will* be appealing and have asked her to send me the forms. If they aren't here by Monday I'll go into the nearest office and pick up a form there.


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## Pumper_Sue (Jan 15, 2013)

AlisonM said:


> I told the lady who called I *will* be appealing and have asked her to send me the forms. If they aren't here by Monday I'll go into the nearest office and pick up a form there.



You can download the form not sure but think it's called a G24.
Make sure you ask for assessment rate though as it wont be given automatically.


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## AlisonM (Jan 15, 2013)

Thanks, just checked and it's form GL24 which I have now downloaded.


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## StephenM (Jan 15, 2013)

The ATOS system has its flaws and these need to be urgently addressed. However I am in favour of the system because as a tax payer why should I support the bone idle and work shy who are milking the system. For years I had a neighbour who had not worked for over a decade after hurting his back at work. Despite this he was out and about every day and managed to do all sort of things including climbing on roofs!  Sadly we have a benefits culture. Other neighbours tried to convince the authorities their son had special needs to get additional payments. He was perfectly normal just ignored by his parents watching their big screen!

AlisionM I hope you appeal goes well ? this should not happen!


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## Pumper_Sue (Jan 15, 2013)

Slight problem Stephen............. the system does not work.
At the last count there were 74 deaths a week due to the t***ers flawed system of finding people fit for work.


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## LeeLee (Jan 15, 2013)

I understand where Stephen is coming from, and if the system were set up fairly it would be a great way to differentiate the lazy lumps who should be supporting themselves from those who REALLY need help.  However, it's inherently unfair because of the rigid criteri.  In addition, the government has set an arbitrary target for the assessors to reject (though nobody will admit it) and nobody is penalised for wrong decisions - no matter how much the appeals end up costing.


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## trophywench (Jan 15, 2013)

Nah, they even ignore the ATOS docs - mine actually stated Not fit now but if continues to improve at the same rate she has already, she should be fit in approx 3 months.

So they stopped my ESA immediately.

Funnily enough I had a bit of a relapse.  It was hard enough getting over the first lot of panic attacks paranoia and agoraphobia but even harder the second time.

Appeal took nearly a year to be heard ....... by which time I was drawing my Old Age Pension !


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## Steff (Jan 16, 2013)

Hi Alison sorry to hear about all the stress you have had over this, I wish you luck with the appeal. I've had no personal experience with them as a company but my OH has and luckily his case was handled to his satisfaction


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## AlisonM (Jan 16, 2013)

Thanks for your support all, it's much appreciated. I actually went through the appeals process once before and won with the panel writing a stinging letter to ATOS and DWP making it clear that the report on my appointment with them was so inaccurate it might have been discussing someone else. From what little I know so far, this time my memory problems (the reason I'm signed off this time) have been totally disregarded.

As an example of the problems I face every day: my moby reminded me at bedtime to do my insulin and I got a text at the same time. Dealt with the text and went back to do the jab but picked up the wrong kit and gave myself a second dose of Victoza instead of the insulin. As a result I've been up all night puking but seem to have got away with it otherwise, NHS24 were very helpful. 

I'm not allowed in the kitchen on my own now because I forgot I was cooking a few weeks ago and almost set fire to the place. I'm about to lose my job because I keep forgetting to do things and making mistakes and, I routinely forget to eat and mess up other regular tasks like getting the shopping. There are loads of other, more subtle memory problems too, too many to list.


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## newbs (Jan 16, 2013)

I know exactly what you mean, having experienced it all with my mum.  My mum has had severe anxiety and depression since my dad passed away 4 years ago.  She cannot go shopping/to appointments/basically do anything outside of the house on her own.  I have to go with her to help her do all of these things.  However, as she is physically able to work she is deemed fit!  Nevermind the fact that she wouldn't be able to go to work without me!!!  It's a joke.  She now has to attend once a fortnight to get her 'ready for work' but this has had to be arranged around my working hours obviously.  It's like banging your head against a brick wall - and the stress of it all does nothing but make her anxiety worse.

Good luck with your appeal.


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## randomange (Jan 16, 2013)

newbs said:


> I know exactly what you mean, having experienced it all with my mum.  My mum has had severe anxiety and depression since my dad passed away 4 years ago.  She cannot go shopping/to appointments/basically do anything outside of the house on her own.  I have to go with her to help her do all of these things.  However, as she is physically able to work she is deemed fit!  Nevermind the fact that she wouldn't be able to go to work without me!!!  It's a joke.  She now has to attend once a fortnight to get her 'ready for work' but this has had to be arranged around my working hours obviously.  It's like banging your head against a brick wall - and the stress of it all does nothing but make her anxiety worse.
> 
> Good luck with your appeal.



My mum has the exact same thing (she has panic attacks so sever the last time she ended up in A&E as the paramedics thought she was having a heart attack) - and to top it off I later found out that they had written things on the assessment that were complete lies   On top of that, they stopped my mum's benefit immediately, told her to go on jobseeker's, and she then had to wait four weeks before that money was available, so she had no income whatsoever for that time.

My mum is in her 50's, and on medication that seems to be finally helping so things are slowly improving, but she's still not what I would call fit for work, and has decided not to appeal as the last time she said it was one of the worst experiences she's ever had.   It just really upsets me that there are so many people in similar positions - and that the media likes to portray them all as workshy scroungers!


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## Northerner (Jan 16, 2013)

randomange said:


> ...My mum is in her 50's, and on medication that seems to be finally helping so things are slowly improving, but she's still not what I would call fit for work, and has decided not to appeal as the last time she said it was one of the worst experiences she's ever had.   It just really upsets me that there are so many people in similar positions - and that the media likes to portray them all as workshy scroungers!



Very sorry to hear about your mum and the problems she has had. Given the number of appeals and problems with the whole process it is clear that the agenda is to make things as difficult as possible so that people will be reluctant to pursue things. Given that the vast majority probably deserve the benefit and are therefore the most vulnerable to such intimidation and bureaucracy, I find it morally repugnant  What does 'fit for work' mean anyway, even if people are thought to scrape through these assessments? There are no jobs for them that a hundred other more likely candidates are already competing for. 

Catch the scroungers, by all means, help those who genuinely need it to get back into work, but support those who are not able (not unwilling, but not able).


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## Pumper_Sue (Jan 16, 2013)

From April if you dare to appeal, then you get no money at all. It's a choice of sign on for jsa or starve. Thus if you sign on then you have proved atos right ie fit for work. Or the js+ staff can say no you shouldn't be here as not fit so again no money.

The system stinks esp for the vunerable with mental health problems.


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## AlisonM (Jan 16, 2013)

I'm a tough old bird in spite of my troubles, and a scrapper, but even I'm frightened by all this. Having been through it once before, I know what to expect, but I'm still stressed out at having to fight for myself.... again. I know there are scroungers out there but I'm not one of them, I've worked all my adult life unless I was ill. 

This is humiliating, distressing and grossly unfair to people like me who are genuinely ill. Being made to jump through these hoops like a circus animal doesn't help. The  system was supposed have been adjusted to take account of mental difficulties, but on the evidence that clearly isn't so. I don't know what's going to happen, but I do know I'm not about to give up and go away. The PTBs are not going to win this one.


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## Northerner (Jan 16, 2013)

Good for you Alison - I have no doubt you will succeed


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## trophywench (Jan 17, 2013)

I wonder if our daughter will have to do it too, she's on DLA though, for MH reasons too.

Before now her Psychiatrist has been able to sort it out, and she hasn't had to appeal, but God knows if they'll allow a Psych's report now.  How she would manage without support I do not know.  She has 4 children including a baby of 9 months .......


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## AlisonM (Jan 18, 2013)

Ye gods! First day out of the house since the pleurisy and I've wasted it dealing with the DWP. I took the GL24 in to their office here with a copy of my latest cert that, they say, they haven't received, though given later events I reckon they did get it, they just can't read! A very nice lady told me she would  need to call the surgery to verify it. So my community nurse and I waited while she did that, she came back and told me it was fine but that the date on it was 4/12 and I needed a 'current one'. So we  traipsed half a mile in the wind and snow to the surgery to be told the cert was actually dated 7/1 and the reference to 4/12 was just the last time Dr S reviewed my  case. He hasn't done it since because nothing on the MadBint front has changed. So we traipsed half a mile back through the wind and snow to the DWP office and explained all this. I just got a call from them, Clydebank this time, saying the same thing and had to explain it all again. They were very dubious about the whole thing, but did say my next benefit payment should go through on time provided they receive the GL24 by the time it's due, which is next Thursday. 

I'm losing the will to live here and my CN is hopping mad because I'm exhausted and distressed and Dr S has called to give me a row for trying to do too much! I'm taking my teddy bear and going to bed till spring!

I've gone mad and had a hot apple juice with honey and cinnamon and blow the bl***y numbers. Actually, I wa 4.1 when I got home so hopefully it will prevent the incipient hypo. My BGs haven't been over 6.5 in the last week.


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## Pumper_Sue (Jan 18, 2013)

Ally,
     so sorry you are having to deal such morons.
When dealing with either the t**rs or dwp always leave a paper trail and send everything by recorded delivery.
Then tell them point blank if they can't find it or lost the info then it's breach of DATA protection. They soon find things then


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## AlisonM (Jan 22, 2013)

Update.

Form GL24 (appeal form) has arrived at DWP and benefits will continue to be paid, though the one due on Thursday may be delayed. The decision letter I was promised wasn't posted but I was told it will be sent today. I can't do any more till it arrives, so now I just have to wait. I didn't need a new certificate after all, at least nobody has said anything about that.

It's odd but I think they have a split personality over there. One bunch are officious jobsworths and clearly enjoy making life as tough as possible for lazy [insert perjorative here] while the other bunch are actually trying help as much as they can.


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## Pumper_Sue (Jan 22, 2013)

AlisonM said:


> Update.
> 
> Form GL24 (appeal form) has arrived at DWP and benefits will continue to be paid, though the one due on Thursday may be delayed. The decision letter I was promised wasn't posted but I was told it will be sent today. I can't do any more till it arrives, so now I just have to wait. I didn't need a new certificate after all, at least nobody has said anything about that.
> 
> It's odd but I think they have a split personality over there. One bunch are officious jobsworths and clearly enjoy making life as tough as possible for lazy [insert perjorative here] while the other bunch are actually trying help as much as they can.



Hi Ally,
        if you have been kicked off of esa, then you do need a new sicknote (med3)  whilst you appeal. So please get one and send it in or you will have your money stopped.


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## AlisonM (Jan 23, 2013)

Checked with Department of Stealth and Total Obscurity. They confirmed that I don't need a new cert, the one I have is valid to mid February.


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## Pumper_Sue (Jan 23, 2013)

AlisonM said:


> Checked with Department of Stealth and Total Obscurity. They confirmed that I don't need a new cert, the one I have is valid to mid February.



Fntastic, make sure you get another one and send it in before that one runs out though, as they very quick to stop peoples money but not to reinstate it.


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## am64 (Jan 23, 2013)

ali i am not sure if you are getting any housing/council tax benefit, but this will have also been suspended, so you will need to be give give them the appeal acceptance letter as well, so it will be reinstated.
good luck x


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## AlisonM (Jan 24, 2013)

am64 said:


> ali i am not sure if you are getting any housing/council tax benefit, but this will have also been suspended, so you will need to be give give them the appeal acceptance letter as well, so it will be reinstated.
> good luck x



No, nothing like that. One less thing to worry about. No rent or mortgage either as the place is ours outright and all paid for.


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## newbs (Jan 24, 2013)

My Mum had to go to a work related assessment today, will now have to go every fortnight for at least 18 months, very traumatic for her.  Anyway, she was told today that she'll have to learn how to use a computer as by the end of this year/beginning of next everyone will have to apply for their benefits online!  So now she has something else to get stressed about.  On a positive note, they have agreed to send her for counselling as they can see she is not up to working at the moment.


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## AlisonM (Jan 24, 2013)

Are they really going to make your mum go for an assessment every fortnight? That seems a bit much to me, surely it can only add to the stress she's under and be counterproductive. At least, that's what I think.


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## newbs (Jan 24, 2013)

AlisonM said:


> Are they really going to make your mum go for an assessment every fortnight? That seems a bit much to me, surely it can only add to the stress she's under and be counterproductive. At least, that's what I think.



Unfortunately, yes.  I agree with you entirely but apparently she HAS to go on to this programme now.  The lady we saw today was nice to be fair, and has agreed to alternate between a phone assessment and a face-to-face assessment so in effect we will only 'see' her once a month to begin with but as things progress the meetings will be face-to-face every fortnight.  A complete waste of time and totally counterproductive, but it seems they like to pick on the easy targets.


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## am64 (Jan 24, 2013)

has your mum put in an appeal ?


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## newbs (Jan 24, 2013)

am64 said:


> has your mum put in an appeal ?



No - she has passed the medical on mental health grounds but still has to be seen to be aiming for employment so therefore has to go along to all of these appointments to keep her benefit.


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## AlisonM (Jan 26, 2013)

Got the detailed report in the post this morning. What a load of tosh! It goes on about my physical issues (doesn't even get that quite right) and almost dismisses the memory problems, seriously underplaying their severity and affect on my daily life. It will take some work to go through in detail but, on first quick read-through, the inaccuracies were glaringly obvious.


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## FM001 (Jan 26, 2013)

AlisonM said:


> Got the detailed report in the post this morning. What a load of tosh! It goes on about my physical issues (doesn't even get that quite right) and almost dismisses the memory problems, seriously underplaying their severity and affect on my daily life. It will take some work to go through in detail but, on first quick read-through, the inaccuracies were glaringly obvious.





Wife's sister went through hell with this lot, in the end she got the McMillan nurses to help with the appeal forms, some disabled charities offer this service for free and are experts at finding inaccuracies and dealing with appeals.


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