# Hi All



## bulkbiker (Dec 5, 2022)

New to here but not new to T2.. been in remission for 7 years thanks to ultra low carb /keto/carnivore diet.
No meds and sustained weight loss.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Dec 5, 2022)

Welcome to the forum

We have a whole range of dietary approaches on the forum, some moderate, low, or very low carb, and others who have opted for Newcastle very low calorie approaches, or weight loss through adapted Slimming World or Weightwatchers style programmes. 

You have to find a system that works for you


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## bulkbiker (Dec 5, 2022)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Welcome to the forum
> 
> We have a whole range of dietary approaches on the forum, some moderate, low, or very low carb, and others who have opted for Newcastle very low calorie approaches, or weight loss through adapted Slimming World or Weightwatchers style programmes.
> 
> You have to find a system that works for you


I did thanks.  These are my long term results


Diagnosed 30/10/2015 HbA1c 70  weight  143 kg
                   18/12/2015 HbA1c 45  weight  132.5 kg
                   26/01/2016 HbA1c 36  weight  125 kg
                   19/07/2016 HbA1c 27  weight  110kg     Total Cholesterol 5.6 no breakdown (useless!)
                   13/01/2017 HbA1c 27  weight  103kg     Total Cholesterol 5.7 HDL 1.46 Trigs 0.8
                   18/07/2017 HbA1c 29  weight  97.8kg    Total Cholesterol 6.0 HDL 1.72 Trigs 0.6
                   18/10/2017 HbA1c 28 weight  96.34kg   Total Cholesterol 7.3 HDL 1.60 Trigs 1.3
                   15/10/2018 HbA1c 27 weight  95.35kg   Total Cholesterol 6.3 HDL 1.51 Trigs1.0
                   14/01/2020 HbA1c  27 weight  91.17kg  Total Cholesterol 8.2 HDL 1.74 Trigs 0.92
                    03/06/2020 HbA1c 27 weight  90.36kg  Total Cholesterol 7.1 HDL 1.35 Trigs 1.8
                    01/12/2020 HbA1c 29 weight  94.35kg   Total Cholesterol 6.7 HDL 1.57 Trigs 1.21
                    17/06/2021 HbA1c 28 weight  99.00kg   Total Cholesterol 7.8 HDL 1.7  Trigs 1.0
                    10/12/2021 HbA1c 30 weight 103.5 kg  Total Cholesterol 8.2 HDL 1.75 Trigs 0.9
                    14/06/2022 HbA1c 30 Weight 103.2kg  Total Cholesterol 8.9 HDL  1.6 Trigs 2.0  (38 hour fast pre bloods)
                    24/08/2022 HbA1c 29 weight 106.2 kg Total Cholesterol 7.3 HDL 1.67 Trigs 0.93 Predict study data


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## travellor (Dec 5, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> I did thanks.  These are my long term results
> 
> 
> Diagnosed 30/10/2015 HbA1c 70  weight  143 kg
> ...



High cholesterol is better for you?


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## bulkbiker (Dec 6, 2022)

I certainly don't see it as a problem with a trig/HDL ratio of  0.93/1.67 = 0.556

"High total cholesterol" is a meaningless number anyway in my view (and that of many heart disease specialists).


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## travellor (Dec 6, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> I certainly don't see it as a problem with a trig/HDL ratio of  0.93/1.67 = 0.556
> 
> "High total cholesterol" is a meaningless number anyway in my view (and that of many heart disease specialists).



Ratio's aren't really used anymore.
It's all about the numbers now.


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## Inka (Dec 6, 2022)

I’d see a cholesterol level in the 7s as a problem. That’s what leaps out at me from your chart. The BMI would be interesting too though, as you could be very short or very tall.


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## travellor (Dec 6, 2022)

Inka said:


> I’d see a cholesterol level in the 7s as a problem. That’s what leaps out at me from your chart. The BMI would be interesting too though, as you could be very short or very tall.



LDL in the high 6's and 7's and I'd think "Erm?"


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## rebrascora (Dec 6, 2022)

Much as I am an advocate for low carb and higher fat way of eating, I would be concerned if my cholesterol was that high (particularly as it has gone up since you started 7 years ago) and you might want to look at increasing the soluble fibre in your diet to try to improve that if you haven't already. Fibre is a really important part of our diet and my body really struggled when I cut all the wholemeal products I was eating before diagnosis. I believe that Introducing a fibre supplement has really improved things for me.  
I use a fibre drink each morning which is a mixture of psyllium husk and chia seeds. I have about a dessert spoon of each in a glass of water with a dash of ACV but you could sprinkle them on food and I know of one member of the forum who has chia seeds in his coffee. The seeds absorb water to become gelatinous so I would imagine the coffee almost turns into a runny sort of porridge which may be a turn off for some people. They don't really taste of anything, so it is just the texture. They can however be sprinkled in or on food but you do need to drink plenty with them. I also use them to thicken up soups and stews where I would normally use flour and they can be used in baking too. Just thought I would mention it as something to try to reduce your overall cholesterol. 
Many congrats on your successful diabetes management.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 6, 2022)

travellor said:


> LDL in the high 6's and 7's and I'd think "Erm?"


Yet LDL is never used to predict heart attack risk in the QRisk calculation.. ever wondered why that might be?


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## bulkbiker (Dec 6, 2022)

travellor said:


> Ratio's aren't really used anymore.
> It's all about the numbers now.


I beg to differ but ratios are indeed used a lot (and should be used more). 
You do realise that cholesterol levels are more dynamic than blood glucose levels don't you?
A snapshot of what your cholesterol is at specific moment in time is pretty meaningless.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 6, 2022)

travellor said:


> LDL in the high 6's and 7's and I'd think "Erm?"


Why? Because they are considered by some as "bad cholesterol"?


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## travellor (Dec 6, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> Why? Because they are considered by some as "bad cholesterol"?



We all make the choices we need to, if you choose to see LDL as good, that's your choice.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 6, 2022)

travellor said:


> We all make the choices we need to, if you choose to see LDL as good, that's your choice.


I see LDL for what it is ... a calculated number with little to no meaning. I'm perfectly happy with mine thanks.


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## travellor (Dec 6, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> I see LDL for what it is ... a calculated number with little to no meaning. I'm perfectly happy with mine thanks.



No one is arguing, we make our choices.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 6, 2022)

Inka said:


> I’d see a cholesterol level in the 7s as a problem. That’s what leaps out at me from your chart. The BMI would be interesting too though, as you could be very short or very tall.


Why would you see it as a problem?
Without cholesterol we'd all be dead.
My BMI is about 30 on average.


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## travellor (Dec 6, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> Why would you see it as a problem?
> Without cholesterol we'd all be dead.
> My BMI is about 30 on average.



Without blood glucose we'd all be dead.


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## harbottle (Dec 6, 2022)

The body (Liver) makes all the cholesterol it needs, and can do it from proteins and carbohydrates via triglycerides. A small amount comes from food we eat directly using dietary fats.

Who said anything about 'no' cholesterol? Most people here understand that cholesterol is used to make hormones and other things.

The link between elevated LDL and heart disease in some people is pretty strong. There's a condition that leads to elevated LDL and if left uncontrolled can lead to heart disease - my niece has it, and her Dad's side of the family has a history of people dying young with heart disease (Including her aunt, at 30) due to high LDL.


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## Inka (Dec 6, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> Why would you see it as a problem?
> Without cholesterol we'd all be dead.
> My BMI is about 30 on average.



Without water we’d all be dead but that doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to drink gallons a day. 

Could getting your BMI down below 25 help further?


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## bulkbiker (Dec 6, 2022)

Inka said:


> Without water we’d all be dead but that doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to drink gallons a day.
> 
> Could getting your BMI down below 25 help further?


Help to do what?


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## Inka (Dec 6, 2022)

Your general health, and metabolism.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 6, 2022)

Inka said:


> Your general health, and metabolism.


But my general health and metabolism are fine.. 
BMI is a poor measure of overall health.


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## Inka (Dec 6, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> But my general health and metabolism are fine..
> BMI is a poor measure of overall health.



So what would happen if you ate some carbs? Can your metabolism now process them?


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## travellor (Dec 6, 2022)

Inka said:


> So what would happen if you ate some carbs? Can your metabolism now process them?



We can only assume not, if they are still "poison"
And with being obese, and cholesterol though the roof, I could think of different descriptions to having a good general health and a fine metabolism.
However, fortunately this isn't a normal view on this forum, so it's unlikely to affect anyone else.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 6, 2022)

Inka said:


> So what would happen if you ate some carbs? Can your metabolism now process them?


Why would I want to eat carbs?  

But yes I have passed an OGTT without "carbing up" beforehand so....


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## bulkbiker (Dec 6, 2022)

travellor said:


> We can only assume not, if they are still "poison"
> And with being obese, and cholesterol though the roof, I could think of different descriptions to having a good general health and a fine metabolism.
> However, fortunately this isn't a normal view on this forum, so it's unlikely to affect anyone else.


"Fortunately" that so few can achieve remission then without medication? 

You have still failed to give any reason why "cholesterol through the roof" is a bad thing and I tell you what being "obese" is far better than being morbidly so and very ill. 

Is everyone here as charming and open minded as you two?


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## travellor (Dec 6, 2022)

.





bulkbiker said:


> "Fortunately" that so few can achieve remission then without medication?
> 
> You have still failed to give any reason why "cholesterol through the roof" is a bad thing and I tell you what being "obese" is far better than being morbidly so and very ill.
> 
> Is everyone here as charming and open minded as you two?



I'm sure if you keep posting on the same themes you will form your own opinion.


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## travellor (Dec 6, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> Why would I want to eat carbs?
> 
> But yes I have passed an OGTT without "carbing up" beforehand so....



That's actually quite a feat.
Low carb, especially keto normally leads to physiological insulin resistance.
Not many people can cope without carbing before.
Even none diabetics.


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## rebrascora (Dec 6, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> Is everyone here as charming and open minded as you two?


Hi. I am not sure if you read my post #9 on the previous page since you haven't made any comment on it but I too am concerned about your cholesterol levels. I personally believe the limit of 4 TC for diabetics may be slightly too low and I am not happy about being offered and encouraged to take statins under 5, but I would not be happy if my levels were above 7 and I would be looking for things to try to reduce that, particularly if they had increased since I changed to a low carb diet. 

My suggestion of a fibre supplement is a simple one to try and no great drawbacks to it.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 6, 2022)

travellor said:


> That's actually quite a feat.
> Low carb, especially keto normally leads to physiological insulin resistance.
> Not many people can cope without carbing before.
> Even none diabetics.


So I'm either an outlier or your hypothesis is incorrect?

Ever thought it might be the latter?


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## travellor (Dec 6, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> So I'm either an outlier or your hypothesis is incorrect?
> 
> Ever thought it might be the latter?



It doesn't worry me either way to be honest.
You have a great insulin response on a keto diet.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 6, 2022)

rebrascora said:


> Hi. I am not sure if you read my post #9 on the previous page since you haven't made any comment on it but I too am concerned about your cholesterol levels. I personally believe the limit of 4 TC for diabetics may be slightly too low and I am not happy about being offered and encouraged to take statins under 5, but I would not be happy if my levels were above 7 and I would be looking for things to try to reduce that, particularly if they had increased since I changed to a low carb diet.
> 
> My suggestion of a fibre supplement is a simple one to try and no great drawbacks to it.


Yes I read your post but again I am not afraid of my cholesterol level because I have read around the subject a lot.

There are very poor links between cholesterol levels and CVD and as I have stated above cholesterol is more dynamic than blood glucose. 

Whilst it is quite sweet that people are concerned I am not so... and it is my body after all.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 6, 2022)

travellor said:


> It doesn't worry me either way to be honest.
> You have a great insulin response on a keto diet.


Yes because I have reversed the root cause of my T2 - hyperinsulinemia.


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## travellor (Dec 6, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> Yes I read your post but again I am not afraid of my cholesterol level because I have read around the subject a lot.
> 
> There are very poor links between cholesterol levels and CVD and as I have stated above cholesterol is more dynamic than blood glucose.
> 
> Whilst it is quite sweet that people are concerned I am not so... and it is my body after all.



If cholesterol is so dynamic why is yours so consistent?
Another outlier perhaps?


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## bulkbiker (Dec 6, 2022)

travellor said:


> If cholesterol is so dynamic why is yours so consistent?
> Another outlier perhaps?


Nope it's because I fast for 12-14 hours prior to each blood drawer as recommended by Dave Feldman except for the 38 hour fasted test which had greatly increased Trigs.


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## Rosie16 (Dec 6, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> New to here but not new to T2.. been in remission for 7 years thanks to ultra low carb /keto/carnivore diet.
> No meds and sustained weight loss.


Hi Please to hear that i have just been told that lidl make a low gi bread i have bought some and i love it just thought i would let ever one know that.


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## travellor (Dec 6, 2022)

Rosie16 said:


> Hi Please to hear that i have just been told that lidl make a low gi bread i have bought some and i love it just thought i would let ever one know that.



It's one I buy, very nice flavour and texture as well.


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## rebrascora (Dec 6, 2022)

Rosie16 said:


> Hi Please to hear that i have just been told that lidl make a low gi bread i have bought some and i love it just thought i would let ever one know that.


Unfortunately Low GI is not a guarantee of how your individual body will respond to it. Porridge is supposed to be Low GI but it hits my blood stream like rocket fuel and I am not the only one. Testing using a BG meter is the only way to know how your body responds to the Lidl Low GI bread. I agree it is nice but it spikes my levels too much to be worth including it in my diet.


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## Inka (Dec 6, 2022)

*Is everyone here as charming and open minded as you two?*

Yes   You can’t expect to post a great swathe of test results and weight and not expect polite questions.


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## harbottle (Dec 6, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> There are very poor links between cholesterol levels and CVD and as I have stated above cholesterol is more dynamic than blood glucose.



What makes you think this?


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## travellor (Dec 6, 2022)

Inka said:


> *Is everyone here as charming and open minded as you two?*
> 
> Yes   You can’t expect to post a great swathe of test results and weight and not expect polite questions.



You missed one important word out.
 - "Horrific"


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## rebrascora (Dec 6, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> Yes I read your post but again I am not afraid of my cholesterol level because I have read around the subject a lot.
> 
> There are very poor links between cholesterol levels and CVD and as I have stated above cholesterol is more dynamic than blood glucose.
> 
> Whilst it is quite sweet that people are concerned I am not so... and it is my body after all.


I too have read around the subject a bit (by no means an expert) because I did not want to refuse statins without making an informed decision. There is a lot of conflicting info about cholesterol and I like to think the reality is probably somewhere in the middle. For me I think, if my levels started going up I would be looking at how I could reduce them and my gut feeling is that 7 is too high. I think 5.5 would probably be an upper limit for me. My body certainly seems to repair itself and functions well at my current level of 4.2, so I can't see a benefit in it being much higher. 

I can't argue my "gut feeling" against yours, and I have seen people quote opposing research papers and studies many times without resolving this issue regarding LDL. I am conscious that we are having a discussion on an open forum where many other people read posts even if they don't engage in the conversation and so I think it is important to have a balanced view on this and perhaps encourage people to reconsider their position or suggest a possible solution, even if ultimately, they stick with their original views. 
If you were to have a CV event tomorrow (and of course I very much hope you don't), we are unlikely to hear about it here on the forum, but your comments about high LDL not being a problem remain here and possibly encourage others to follow in your footsteps, so an element of caution is probably a good thing in a discussion like this, even if you do not want our concern for yourself. 

I follow a similar diet to yourself by the sound of things and I don't particularly want to compromise on that because it works for me and I agree that LDL has a place and use in our bodies, but I personally think yours may be a bit out of balance/range perhaps due to insufficient fibre. You clearly don't think so and I wish you well with it.


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## Lucyr (Dec 6, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> I did thanks.  These are my long term results
> 
> 
> Diagnosed 30/10/2015 HbA1c 70  weight  143 kg
> ...


If that was my cholesterol I’d be stopping the low carb diet or at least changing to a low fat diet, or trying to increase exercise / lose weight / try statins if you’re adverse to low fat, as your cholesterol is consistently very high. 

It also looks like the low carb diet isn’t benefiting your weight any more, as you weigh the same now as 5 years ago in 2017.  I understand it’s hard to lose weight, as it’s something I also struggle with, but your current approach really doesn’t seem to be working for weight or cholesterol so it may be worth trying low fat, moderate carb and more exercise, and calorie counting to see if that moves things in the right direction.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 6, 2022)

harbottle said:


> What makes you think this?


The general lack of evidence and statements from various high profile cardiologists. Why do you think it might be true?


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## bulkbiker (Dec 6, 2022)

Lucyr said:


> If that was my cholesterol I’d be stopping the low carb diet or at least changing to a low fat diet, or trying to increase exercise / lose weight / try statins if you’re adverse to low fat, as your cholesterol is consistently very high.
> 
> It also looks like the low carb diet isn’t benefiting your weight any more, as you weigh the same now as 5 years ago in 2017.  I understand it’s hard to lose weight, as it’s something I also struggle with, but your current approach really doesn’t seem to be working for weight or cholesterol so it may be worth trying low fat, moderate carb and more exercise, and calorie counting to see if that moves things in the right direction.


Why do you think "cholesterol" is a problem though? 
And why on earth would I consider increasing my carb consumption? 
You don't think a 40 kg weight loss maintained over 7 years is "good enough" ?


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## travellor (Dec 6, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> The general lack of evidence and statements from various high profile cardiologists. Why do you think it might be true?



Ah, "Dave"?
Your guru.
Dave Feldman is a senior software engineer, entrepreneur and a citizen scientist. He began working with programming and system engineering at a very young age and has always enjoyed learning new mechanistic patterns and concepts. After starting a low carb diet, Dave found his cholesterol numbers increased considerably.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 6, 2022)

travellor said:


> Ah, "Dave"?
> Your guru.
> Dave Feldman is a senior software engineer, entrepreneur and a citizen scientist. He began working with programming and system engineering at a very young age and has always enjoyed learning new mechanistic patterns and concepts. After starting a low carb diet, Dave found his cholesterol numbers increased considerably.


I don't think that Dave Feldman has ever claimed to be a high profile cardiologist (as indeed I haven't either) though so your misleading reference there doesn't really work..


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## bulkbiker (Dec 6, 2022)

travellor said:


> You missed one important word out.
> - "Horrific"


Only in your eyes though.


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## Eddy Edson (Dec 6, 2022)

Lucyr said:


> If that was my cholesterol I’d be stopping the low carb diet or at least changing to a low fat diet, or trying to increase exercise / lose weight / try statins if you’re adverse to low fat, as your cholesterol is consistently very high.
> 
> It also looks like the low carb diet isn’t benefiting your weight any more, as you weigh the same now as 5 years ago in 2017.  I understand it’s hard to lose weight, as it’s something I also struggle with, but your current approach really doesn’t seem to be working for weight or cholesterol so it may be worth trying low fat, moderate carb and more exercise, and calorie counting to see if that moves things in the right direction.


I get the impression the OP believes the message that HDL ratios, in particular trig/HDL, are the only things that really matter. 

On this story, the large majority expert consensus is just wrong - so LDL isn't causal for CVD, HDL is more than just a bystander & it does have a causal role in reducing CVD risk, ratios are clinically meaningful, satfats are fine, only carbs matter etc etc. 

The experts have been bought off by Big Pharma or have been corrupted by reading Ancel Keys in their youth or are being mind-controlled by Giant Purple Space Chickens, or something.


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## Lucyr (Dec 6, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> Why do you think "cholesterol" is a problem though?
> And why on earth would I consider increasing my carb consumption?
> You don't think a 40 kg weight loss maintained over 7 years is "good enough" ?


High cholesterol is a problem because it makes heart disease more likely. You can read about cholesterol online. For example https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-t...r-medical-conditions/cholesterol-and-diabetes

As you’ve gone from 94kg to 106kg in the last 2 years that’s a weight gain of about 2 stones. Your BMI is still either overweight or obese at 106kg which suggests you have plenty more weight to lose, and losing weight will help the high cholesterol levels too. It looks like the low carb diet has increased your cholesterol a lot, so reducing fats especially saturated fats, and increasing high fibre carbs a bit so that you’ve got enough variety of food to make it sustainable, will help reduce the cholesterol and weight to reduce your risk of heart disease.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 7, 2022)

Lucyr said:


> High cholesterol is a problem because it makes heart disease more likely. You can read about cholesterol online. For example https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-t...r-medical-conditions/cholesterol-and-diabetes
> 
> As you’ve gone from 94kg to 106kg in the last 2 years that’s a weight gain of about 2 stones. Your BMI is still either overweight or obese at 106kg which suggests you have plenty more weight to lose, and losing weight will help the high cholesterol levels too. It looks like the low carb diet has increased your cholesterol a lot, so reducing fats especially saturated fats, and increasing high fibre carbs a bit so that you’ve got enough variety of food to make it sustainable, will help reduce the cholesterol and weight to reduce your risk of heart disease.


You miss of course the fact that the weight regain could have been something to do with loosening the diet in the first place to increase carbs? 
I have little to no risk of heart disease thanks as my recent participation in a study to look at markers for heart disease in T2 diabetics showed. 
The hour in a MRI scanner, the CAC score and my cholesterol level caused zero concern for the medics involved in gathering the data. And my blood pressure level was remarked upon as being very normal.
Now I could ignore all that as follow your "advice" yet somehow  I feel it might not do me any good. 
What are your levels like for comparison?


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## bulkbiker (Dec 7, 2022)

Eddy Edson said:


> I get the impression the OP believes the message that HDL ratios, in particular trig/HDL, are the only things that really matter.
> 
> On this story, the large majority expert consensus is just wrong - so LDL isn't causal for CVD, HDL is more than just a bystander & it does have a causal role in reducing CVD risk, ratios are clinically meaningful, satfats are fine, only carbs matter etc etc.
> 
> The experts have been bought off by Big Pharma or have been corrupted by reading Ancel Keys in their youth or are being mind-controlled by Giant Purple Space Chickens, or something.


The large majority expert consensus is often wrong. 
Especially when the pharmaceutical response to chronic disease has been taught at med schools for the past 60-70 years. 
LDL was demonised because statins were found to reduce it.  Most of the "experts" have little to no idea why or how it works (because it doesn't).. 
You seem to believe that there is causal proof that "high cholesterol" is somehow bad. I disagree. 
I treat your views with a modicum of respect maybe you should attempt the same.


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## Lucyr (Dec 7, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> You miss of course the fact that the weight regain could have been something to do with loosening the diet in the first place to increase carbs?
> I have little to no risk of heart disease thanks as my recent participation in a study to look at markers for heart disease in T2 diabetics showed.
> The hour in a MRI scanner, the CAC score and my cholesterol level caused zero concern for the medics involved in gathering the data. And my blood pressure level was remarked upon as being very normal.
> Now I could ignore all that as follow your "advice" yet somehow  I feel it might not do me any good.
> What are your levels like for comparison?


My cholesterol is 5, which is on target and no statins needed as I’m under 40.  I eat a moderate to high carb diet and low fat especially trying to limit saturated fat. But yes if you increase your carbs then you’ll need to reduce other parts of your diet especially the fats or you will gain weight.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 7, 2022)

Lucyr said:


> My cholesterol is 5, which is on target and no statins needed as I’m under 40.  I eat a moderate to high carb diet and low fat especially trying to limit saturated fat. But yes if you increase your carbs then you’ll need to reduce other parts of your diet especially the fats or you will gain weight.


I have no intention of reducing my fats or increasing my carbs thanks.  I'm glad you are pleased with your cholesterol level just remember as you age that higher levels are seen as protective especially for women.


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## nonethewiser (Dec 7, 2022)

Since testing began always been fortunate to have good cholesterol levels, recent result  in October was 4.2TC with all ratios in range.

Bit like hba1c like to keep bp & cholesterol levels in check, it's important for long term health & to avoid complications, with respect to OP but no way  could I listen to some armature scientist advice on cardio health so prefer to stick with expert opinions & general consensus among them.


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## harbottle (Dec 7, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> I have no intention of reducing my fats or increasing my carbs thanks.  I'm glad you are pleased with your cholesterol level just remember as you age that higher levels are seen as protective especially for women.



No, they are not.

Some people can have high cholesterol and live to a ripe old age without heart disease; others can have high cholesterol that leads to heart disease. No one disputes that. There are other factors at play with overall health and maybe genetic factors as well.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 7, 2022)

harbottle said:


> Some people can have high cholesterol and live to a ripe old age without heart disease; others can have high cholesterol that leads to heart disease




Or just maybe it's simply nothing to do with cholesterol levels at all?









						The Benefits of High Cholesterol - The Weston A. Price Foundation
					

Read this in: Italiano ️ Print post People with high cholesterol live the longest. This statement seems so incredible that it takes a long time to clear one´s […]




					www.westonaprice.org


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## bulkbiker (Dec 7, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> Or just maybe it's simply nothing to do with cholesterol levels at all?
> 
> 
> 
> ...











						Higher Cholesterol Is Associated With Longer Life
					

Is it possible that mainstream medicine got cholesterol all wrong? That not only does cholesterol have no connection to heart disease, but…




					medium.com


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## travellor (Dec 7, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> Or just maybe it's simply nothing to do with cholesterol levels at all?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You can buy his book about it on Amazon.
A bargain at £40.

At least Mangans are a bit cheaper.
"For more on how to live longer, see my books, Stop the Clock and Muscle Up"


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## bulkbiker (Dec 7, 2022)

travellor said:


> You can buy his book about it on Amazon.
> A bargain at £40.


I could but mostly these guys distribute much of it for free so....


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## Inka (Dec 7, 2022)

This Weston Price?:

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/sbm-weston-prices-appalling-legacy/

.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 7, 2022)

Inka said:


> This Weston Price?:
> 
> https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/sbm-weston-prices-appalling-legacy/
> 
> .


Nice opinion piece..however that is all it is..


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## Inka (Dec 7, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> Nice opinion piece..however that is all it is..



But it alerted me to bad advice eg this is from the NHS:

_If you're pregnant_​_Having large amounts of vitamin A can harm your unborn baby. So if you're pregnant or thinking about having a baby, do not eat liver or liver products, such as pâté, because these are very high in vitamin A.

Also avoid taking supplements that contain vitamin A. Speak to your GP or midwife if you would like more information._

Yet Weston Price has a Diet for Pregnant Women that recommends cod liver oil supplements with high doses of Vitamin A and eating liver once or twice a week.


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## travellor (Dec 7, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> Nice opinion piece..however that is all it is..



Well, if you read their opinion is that 5G caused covid, and you rate that opinion, good luck.
What next, a tinfoil hat for flu?









						Caustic Commentary, Summer 2022 - The Weston A. Price Foundation
					

️ Print post Sally Fallon Morell takes on the Diet Dictocrats THE IMPORTANCE OF GREEN GRASS Genuine milk allergy (as opposed to lactose intolerance) occurs in three to […]




					www.westonaprice.org


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## travellor (Dec 7, 2022)

That site really is the gift that keeps giving.

"for strong bones, avoid EMF exposure as much as possible, while sticking to the WAPF recipe for strong bones: raw milk, grass-fed butter and cod liver oil"

Yes, 5G will dissolve your bones!


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## Eddy Edson (Dec 7, 2022)

travellor said:


> That site really is the gift that keeps giving.


The grift that keeps on grifting.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 7, 2022)

Inka said:


> But it alerted me to bad advice eg this is from the NHS:
> 
> _If you're pregnant_​_Having large amounts of vitamin A can harm your unborn baby. So if you're pregnant or thinking about having a baby, do not eat liver or liver products, such as pâté, because these are very high in vitamin A.
> 
> ...


And yet oddly vitamin A has multiple health benefits including placental health... 









						Vitamin A
					

Vitamin A is a fat-soluble nutrient that plays a vital role in your body. This article discusses vitamin A, including its benefits, food sources of the vitamin, and the effects of deficiency and toxicity.




					www.healthline.com
				




Not seen the NHS advising people to avoid sweet potatoes... have you?


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## travellor (Dec 7, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> And yet oddly vitamin A has multiple health benefits including placental health...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ah, the old "potato" arguement. .


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## bulkbiker (Dec 8, 2022)

travellor said:


> Ah, the old "potato" arguement. .


Akin to the old "liver argument"?


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## Inka (Dec 8, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> And yet oddly vitamin A has multiple health benefits including placental health...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And yet oddly, the advice from the NHS was because *too much Vitamin A can cause birth defects…

Do not take cod liver oil or any supplements containing vitamin A (retinol) when you're pregnant. Too much vitamin A could harm your baby.*

https://www.nhs.uk/pregnancy/keeping-well/vitamins-supplements-and-nutrition/

What to avoid​
raw or undercooked meat
*liver and liver products*
all types of pâté, including vegetarian pâté
game meats such as goose, partridge or pheasant
Why​*Liver and liver products have lots of vitamin A in them. This can be harmful to an unborn baby.*


https://www.nhs.uk/pregnancy/keeping-well/foods-to-avoid/

.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 8, 2022)

Inka said:


> And yet oddly, the advice from the NHS was because *too much Vitamin A can cause birth defects…
> 
> Do not take cod liver oil or any supplements containing vitamin A (retinol) when you're pregnant. Too much vitamin A could harm your baby.*
> 
> ...


And what is "too much" ?  
It certainly isn't "any" and who these days eats lots of liver apart from my dog and cat?

Like many things vit A is necessary for placental health allegedly and dangerous if eaten in excess.
The dose is the poison?


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## Inka (Dec 8, 2022)

Yes, and that’s why is recommended that liver is avoided because it’s very high in Vitamin A - and the more dangerous form of Vitamin A at that. Recommending pregnant women eat it and take cod liver oil is reckless. Both should be avoided in pregnancy.


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## travellor (Dec 8, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> And what is "too much" ?
> It certainly isn't "any" and who these days eats lots of liver apart from my dog and cat?
> 
> Like many things vit A is necessary for placental health allegedly and dangerous if eaten in excess.
> The dose is the poison?



Well, according to that site it also cures every form of cancer, so it must have something going for it.  
And I can become a member for 50 dollars a year, and get a free book for a 100 dollar donation.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 8, 2022)

Inka said:


> Yes, and that’s why is recommended that liver is avoided because it’s very high in Vitamin A - and the more dangerous form of Vitamin A at that. Recommending pregnant women eat it and take cod liver oil is reckless. Both should be avoided in pregnancy.


So if they were deficient it would be a great source..  

But this conversation was about my "horrible" cholesterol levels (which I think are fine and my CVD markers are perfect so)...
I note that your ad hominens aside you guys haven't produced much evidence for your claims..odd that..


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## Inka (Dec 8, 2022)

No, it wouldn’t! It’s far too high and the wrong type.


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## travellor (Dec 8, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> So if they were deficient it would be a great source..
> 
> But this conversation was about my "horrible" cholesterol levels (which I think are fine and my CVD markers are perfect so)...
> I note that your ad hominens aside you guys haven't produced much evidence for your claims..odd that..



Why?
We have our opinion, you have yours.
We've seen your proof.
You clearly rate that website as an authority.
It's your life to live.

We're just providing a counterbalance in your posts for people who don't really believe sites that say 5G will melt you is actually a highly rated source of medical information.


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## bulkbiker (Dec 8, 2022)

travellor said:


> We've seen your proof.


No.. you have seen a tiny proportion of the suggested evidence.. I haven't claimed "proof" because in the field of human nutrition there really isn't any. 
You do seem to really like misrepresenting what other people think and say though.
But at least you agree your view is simple another "opinion" for which I thank you.


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## travellor (Dec 8, 2022)

bulkbiker said:


> Ah  "the science" a dead giveaway..



Indeed it is.

A bit like Newtons second law.
Just proven scientific fact.

Unlike the JATO Rocket Car, which just shows if you want to believe something badly enough...


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## everydayupsanddowns (Dec 8, 2022)

Please can I redirect forum member‘s to the pinned notice about different members having different approaches, and keeping the tone of posts supportive and respectful, even where you disagree.

For anyone interested, one of the contributors to the thread posted this link to updated NHS evidence-based lipid management guidelines recently



			https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/nhs-england-lipid-management-guidelines.97005/


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