# The Police and New Powers



## Nomad722 (Aug 11, 2019)

I can mention names here because this was on LBC (97.30) This morning.  Much of the conversation centered around the black community and knife crime which I feel is a bit unfair, however some good did come out of the conversation.  A black person is nine and a half times more likely to be stopped than a white person.  What wasn't mentioned was most knife crimes are between people who know each other (words from a policeman I met).  Should you walk through the Seven Sisters (an area of Tottenham) you will a lot of young black mainly men dealing drugs mostly marijuana, illegal of course.  Personally I think the best thing to do is leave them alone.  I never fear to walk past them, should I be attacked, I am sure another black man will come and deal with the perpetrator.  You rarely see the police there.  The new laws make it easier to stop people and no doubts young black people will be their main target.  I fear this may result in riots, an opinion I share with Marian Fitzgerald a criminal psychologist at the University of Kent.  For some reason I haven't seen a black policeman for a long time, there were several around the borough a few years ago.  Sad to say the most relevant part of the issue was almost missed; what are the causes.  When you have a system that issues sanctions to the unemployed leaving them with no money for food, rent, gas and electricity let alone social enjoyment, then the government is building a 'time bomb.'


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## Ralph-YK (Aug 11, 2019)

I live in a old fashioned town. It's years since I've seen any police on the streets. They've been in the local library a couple of times.
The town is full of drunks and druggies, all white.


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## ypauly (Aug 11, 2019)

Benny G said:


> There is a similar experience here in the poor areas of Leeds. I recall the last round of riots we had several years ago, there were very few British people involved.
> If you are ethnically British you have to keep your head down.


A strange statement that is, you make it sound like people coming here on holiday did the rioting, whereas I would bet they were indeed British.


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## Matt Cycle (Aug 11, 2019)

Benny G said:


> There is a similar experience here in the poor areas of Leeds. I recall the last round of riots we had several years ago, there were very few British people involved.
> If you are ethnically British you have to keep your head down.



Did you go and ask them what their nationalities/ethnicities were?  Unless you're making a distinction between White British, Black British, Asian British, mixed race British, etc.  In which case your statement is racist.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Aug 11, 2019)

ypauly said:


> A strange statement that is, you make it sound like people coming here on holiday did the rioting, whereas I would bet they were indeed British.



Unrest often surfaces in poorer parts of cities, especially where people have been subject to discrimination (either racial, social or financial) for many years. In my city disturbances have occurred over the years in several areas, with very different ethnic mixes. The unifying factor seems to be a young population who feel they have no voice, whose support has been removed and who have a communal sense of having been wronged or subject to unfairness.


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## Ralph-YK (Aug 11, 2019)

Ralph-YK said:


> The town is full of drunks and druggies, all white.


with some who will openly trade.


Nomad722 said:


> When you have a system that issues sanctions to the unemployed leaving them with no money for food, rent, gas and electricity let alone social enjoyment


Oh, I missed bit. Yes. We've got a lot of this around here. People are regularly going to food banks (we've got several) and soup kitchen. Old mining towns which, despite some development, is an economically deprived area.


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## ypauly (Aug 11, 2019)

Benny G said:


> I wish they had been here on holiday. The riots took place at the bottom of my street, six of the rioters from my street went to prison, I either knew them or their families. All good Pakistani lads.
> There is a lot less trouble now we have local Sharia. The present troubles are mostly between the majority Pakistani population and Eastern Europeans. No, not many British people here.


Just because they are an ethnic minority it doesn't mean they are not British


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## everydayupsanddowns (Aug 11, 2019)

Benny G said:


> As you say, if they are a British ethic minority it doesn't mean they are not British. If their ethnicity is not British, then they are ethnically non British.



I’m sorry Benny, but I completely disagree, and consider that factually incorrect.

It is perfectly possible to be Asian British (ie British) but also remain proud of your cultural heritage and traditions.

Britain is a multi-ethnic country. Many ethnicities who are also British, either by adopting British Nationality after moving here, or by being born here but within a different ethnic/cultural group. And people can be proud of both identities.


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## SueEK (Aug 11, 2019)

We have every creed, colour, nationality, faith and sexual orientation in Brighton. There is amazingly very little trouble but what there is is usually caused by young white drunk males AND females. Hopefully because of such a large diverse mix of people we more readily accept people’s differences. There also does not seem to be large areas where a particular nationality live whereas visiting my old hometown there were many different ‘quarters’ and personally I think that causes problems by dividing people - just my opinion.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Aug 11, 2019)

Benny G said:


> Fantastic, so I could move to China and become ethnically Chinese, then move to Africa and become ethnically African, while also remaining ethnically British.



Ethnically White Chinese or European Chinese perhaps? I’m not well travelled enough to know what the preferred ethnic subset is for people who have adopted Chinese nationality. 



> Wow, DNA is a lot more complicated than I was led to believe.



Have you ever had your DNA checked.

There are most likely a LOT more ethnicities represented than you imagine.

I think you know very well what people are objecting to. Your posts appear to assert that people from ethnic minorities can’t be ‘counted’ as British, which is utter nonsense. And racist.


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## ypauly (Aug 11, 2019)

Benny G said:


> One of my Polish friends has a sister who lives in China, she teaches English as a foreign language. She said that she would never be accepted by the Chinese people as Chinese as she is not ethnically Chinese. But she has only lived there for 10 years.
> 
> The UK is extremely generous to immigrants from all over the world and as you have said once they have a British passport they are as British as I am, both ethnically and culturally. Their rights and privileges are the same as mine. Nothing is free in this world. There is a cost for such outlandish generousity.


We have a society where we accept people as people, long gone are the days when colour, culture or religion matters, I have friends of Pakistani origin that like to support Pakistan in the cricket but England in the football, they have the best of both worlds, but if the Russians turned up on the coast of France pointing guns in our direction they would be quicker to defend this nation than many of our indigenous people.


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## Bronco Billy (Aug 11, 2019)

You can't be both. If you want to be British, don't go to watch India v England in the world cup and support India. That's only acceptable if you're Scottish


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## everydayupsanddowns (Aug 11, 2019)

Bronco Billy said:


> You can't be both. If you want to be British, don't go to watch India v England in the world cup and support India. That's only acceptable if you're Scottish



As an Anglo Saxon perhaps you should really support Germany. Or one of the southern Scandinavian countries. That’s where the immigrants came from that overran the Iron Age Celts and first became known as English.


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## Bronco Billy (Aug 11, 2019)

The effect of the Germans and Scandinavians on the indigenous English bloodline is much over-exaggerated by certain elements of the left who hate their own country. The early invasions by those peoples has actually had a minimal effect.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Aug 11, 2019)

Bronco Billy said:


> The effect of the Germans and Scandinavians on the indigenous English bloodline is much over-exaggerated by certain elements of the left who hate their own country. The early invasions by those peoples has actually had a minimal effect.



Certain elements of the left? Who have cunningly manipulated the DNA of all the ancient finds to prove a point? 

_Ancient DNA shows that the culture that brought Bronze Age technology to Britain was connected to a migration that almost completely replaced the island's earlier inhabitants._​
https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news...ple-a-new-population-for-ancient-britain.html


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## Lilian (Aug 11, 2019)

My nephew who is half Greek and his friend full Greek are often stopped by the police.   Unfortunately my  nephew suffers from alopecia and rather than have patches of hair on his head he shaves his head completely, so I presume he looks even more intimidating.    His friend is a chef and my nephew would meet his friend from work and they would walk home.   The only  time they get to do some exercise after a long days work for both of them.   Another problem is that his friend has a bag with all his personal chef equipment and tools in (which I presume includes knives).     Fortunately once they have been stopped and the police have talked to them, they have let them go on their way.    However they do not resent this because they feel the police are doing their duty to keep them and others safe.   Obviously they are not stopped as much any more because they are now known to the police - in the nicest possible way of course.


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## Bronco Billy (Aug 11, 2019)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Certain elements of the left? Who have cunningly manipulated the DNA of all the ancient finds to prove a point?
> 
> _Ancient DNA shows that the culture that brought Bronze Age technology to Britain was connected to a migration that almost completely replaced the island's earlier inhabitants._​
> https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news...ple-a-new-population-for-ancient-britain.html





Yes, the left, who cunningly manipulate stats to ‘prove’ the ‘facts’ they want us to believe. Other facts are available. 

https://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2015/03/18/4200057.htm


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## everydayupsanddowns (Aug 11, 2019)

Bronco Billy said:


> Yes, the left, who cunningly manipulate stats to ‘prove’ the ‘facts’ they want us to believe. Other facts are available.
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2015/03/18/4200057.htm



Erm... (from the page you linked which is also based on the same study published in Nature as far as I can tell on my phone)

*Saxon invasion*
By comparing DNA in the United Kingdom and Europe, the researchers were able to trace the movements of people into the UK and determine the ancestry of the English.

One of the key findings, says Leslie, is that the people in the homogenous area of England shared genetic markers with those from the Saxon area of northern Germany, providing strong evidence for 5th century Saxon invasion.​


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## Eddy Edson (Aug 11, 2019)

Personally, I'm glad that nobody with any clue believes that genetics = "ethnicity" any more, because otherwise I'd have to think of myself as partly Belgian.


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## Nomad722 (Aug 12, 2019)

Benny G said:


> There is a similar experience here in the poor areas of Leeds. I recall the last round of riots we had several years ago, there were very few British people involved.
> If you are ethnically British you have to keep your head down.


I have an ethnic origin but looking at me most don't notice.


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## Nomad722 (Aug 12, 2019)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Unrest often surfaces in poorer parts of cities, especially where people have been subject to discrimination (either racial, social or financial) for many years. In my city disturbances have occurred over the years in several areas, with very different ethnic mixes. The unifying factor seems to be a young population who feel they have no voice, whose support has been removed and who have a communal sense of having been wronged or subject to unfairness.



That is amongst the problems where I live, I believe there are more people on benefits than work.


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## Nomad722 (Aug 12, 2019)

Is it alright to name the towns/cities you are people are referring to?


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## Nomad722 (Aug 12, 2019)

There are still other problems I haven't mentioned; sometimes when the police stop a young black male for a perfectly legitimate reason they find themselves surrounded by mostly young blacks.  This refers only to a fraction of the black population, most are perfectly law abiding.  The mainly West Indian community, like any other community has it share of miscreants.


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## Bronco Billy (Aug 12, 2019)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Erm... (from the page you linked which is also based on the same study published in Nature as far as I can tell on my phone)
> 
> *Saxon invasion*
> By comparing DNA in the United Kingdom and Europe, the researchers were able to trace the movements of people into the UK and determine the ancestry of the English.
> ...




It also says that the genetic influence could be as low as 10%, which doesn't fit in with the idea that the locals were "completely replaced" by invaders as author of the Natural History Museum article suggests.


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## mikeyB (Aug 15, 2019)

BennyG, what you are saying, essentially is that you can’t be British if you aren’t the right colour or race. In my book, if you are born in Britain you are British. 

I’m largely Irish according to my DNA, but as I’m the right colour nobody notices.

On topic, Glasgow used to be the knife capital of the UK. It’s far from that now, not because of increased police powers, not by stop and search, but by treating it as a social and educational problem. It’s a model that was previously used in New York with guns. It’s seen as a paradigm by many countries (apart from England). In Portugal, they have slashed drug deaths and the consumption of addictive drugs by using a similar model and thinking.

You will never, ever reduce knife crime by increased police action alone. Glasgow shows how it’s done.


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