# milk consumption



## Sheila of Eskdale (Mar 18, 2014)

Can anyone tell me how much a sedentary person having 3 pints of milk a day is likely to affect their sugar levels (type 2 diabetes). I realise that its impossible to give precise figures, I'm just trying to get an idea whether this much milk can cause hypers if everything else is OK.


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## Northerner (Mar 18, 2014)

Milk contains a lot of sugar, in the form of lactose, and three pints a day is rather a lot. Half a pint contains around 30g of carbs/sugar, or just a bit less than a mars bar  So, imagine what eating 5 or 6 mars bars a day is likely to do to your blood sugar levels. I know milk is supposed to be healthy, but like fruit juice and smoothies unfortunately, not so good if you have diabetes 

 Personally, I stopped drinking milk after diagnosis even though I love it. Now, I just have it in tea or coffee.


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## Naty (Mar 18, 2014)

I hope the OP doesn't mind me diverting this a little - I've often wondered whether my 'safe' treat of a small latte with sugar free hazelnut syrup and cream on top is  actually not that 'safe' at all - it would appear not


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## Copepod (Mar 18, 2014)

Or a person with type 2 diabetes could change from being sedentary to being more active, and might be able to continue to drink 3 pints of milk a day. Or cut down to, say 2 pints per day and make up fluids with water or other sugar free drinks.

In practice, only way to know for sure is to test, drink, say 1 pint at once, then eat / drink nothing else and test again 2 hours after drinking milk.


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## Sheila of Eskdale (Mar 18, 2014)

The problem is that the person concerned is my elderly Dad who suffers from Alzheimers.
Its virtually impossible to control his intake of anything because he no longer understands diabetes and can't remember what he has already consumed in a day (or even 5 minutes ago). We can explain his diabetes and go through how much sugar things have in them but its even hard trying to get him to accept that milk has sugar in it (there's a lack of understanding things as well as memory problems) but he will forget by the next day if not sooner. Even if he remembers for that day he won't remember how much he has already had. 
As for exercise it makes him feel tired so he doesn't do it because he thinks it bad for him. We do try but its a constant battle.


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## Copepod (Mar 18, 2014)

Sorry, didn't realise you were talking about your elderly father with dementia. I wondered if it was a friend. It helps to have all the facts with a question.

You could try watering down milk a bit, perhaps?

Unfortunately, exercise will make him feel tired, especially if blood glucose levels are high. How does he sleep? Because sometimes getting tired can be good for promoting restful sleep.


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## Northerner (Mar 18, 2014)

I wonder if he would drink unsweetened soy or almond milk? Both are much lower in carbs. Most on the market are sweetened though, so you'd have to check the cartons.


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## AlisonM (Mar 18, 2014)

I used to drink loads of milk, got the craving shortly before Dx and it took me some time to realise how it was affecting my numbers. Now I have it in tea or coffee and sometimes with my oatmeal but I've cut way down from the litre a day I was having.


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## Northerner (Mar 18, 2014)

AlisonM said:


> I used to drink loads of milk, got the craving shortly before Dx and it took me some time to realise how it was affecting my numbers. Now I have it in tea or coffee and sometimes with my oatmeal but I've cut way down from the litre a day I was having.



Yes, as I've mentioned before I was necking 30+ pints a week before diagnosis. You are very thirsty and the milk is refreshing, plus your body is craving sugar, which the milk contains. And since I was told since being an infant that milk was good for me, I couldn't see anything wrong in drinking it. 

I suspect there's an element of that for your father, Sheila.


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## Sheila of Eskdale (Mar 18, 2014)

He sleeps very badly, that's common with Alzheimers. He gets up in the night, at which point he will get himself a drink and he sleeps quite a bit during the day. We know that some exercise will help him sleep but getting him to do it is a battle, and we're only talking about a short walk not aerobics!. We have tried using fully skimmed milk which obviously reduces the sugar, he usually has it with coffee or Barleycup but makes it with all milk and no water. If my Mum makes it she uses half milk half water. Soya would be a problem as it tends to curdle with coffee, I also don't think he'd like the taste, however I might try some of the other types of milk, maybe he'll like one of them.

I think the old "milk is good for you message" is part of the problem, milk was always seen as being natural and wholesome, which it is, just not in those amounts!

The big problem we have in trying to tackle any of the problems is that not only does he not understand any of it but because his memory is bad he doesn't accept many of the problems he has. If we say that going for a walk will help him sleep he won't accept that he has a problem with sleep, he might remember that sometimes he gets up in the night, and sometimes he has a nap in the day, but he has no idea that he can wake several times in the night to the point where he is getting up or that he can fall asleep whilst you're talking to him or sleep for most of the day. The same process applies to any of the other problems and there are currently rather a lot of problems.

Thanks for all the help. Northerner , putting it in terms of a Mars bar really puts it into perspective.


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## Northerner (Mar 18, 2014)

Funny as it sounds Sheila, he'd probably be better off with full fat milk rather than skimmed. Skimmed milk actually has more sugar in it than full-fat, because there is less fat per pint consumed, therefore more of the other constituents. The fat in full fat milk would help to slow how quickly it hit his blood glucose levels.


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## HOBIE (Mar 18, 2014)

When I was a kid I did nt like to eat. was on fixed amount of insulin not like today. The only thing my mother could get into me was milk. Regularly having 6pts a day. I didn't break any bones till I was 28 after a crash. Milk is my hypo stopper. Good luck with your dad


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## Hanmillmum (Mar 18, 2014)

Watering down the milk is a good idea if he is insisting on still drinking it, you could prepare a carton in advance by removing half or a third of the milk and topping up with water so he can continue to help himself to it. Also have a smaller mug/cup available for him to reduce the amount consumed in one sitting ? Good luck, must be incredibly difficult juggling both conditions. 
Is he on any medications for his diabetes or are you having to monitor his diet and activity to control his blood sugars?


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## Sheila of Eskdale (Mar 18, 2014)

Northerner - now I am confused. I though we had to be careful about all calories hence fat would affect sugar level as well, is that not the case? Its is daily blood sugar level that is high not sudden hypers
Hanmillmum - We can't get him to drink out of a cup which is even slightly smaller, we have tried. He is on insulin and Glicazide for his diabetes and a number of other things for other problems. His sugar levels were high for a year before we got him on insulin because the doctor insisted we should control it with diet whilst failing to understand that short of replacing the kitchen door with a tough and lockable one, there is no way we can do that.


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## HERE TINTIN (Mar 18, 2014)

This sounds to be a terrible situation to be in. Watering down the milk seems a good idea and maybe only having so much milk in the house. How would your dad react if there was hardly any milk in the house, would he drink a healthier option. There has to be more people out there dealing with diabetic relatives with Alzheimers,, is there any organisation who can help you with advice about this ?


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## LeeLee (Mar 18, 2014)

Had you thought of reusing old milk bottles and filling with sugar free almond milk?  Blue Diamond unsweetened is lovely, especially in coffee.


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## Northerner (Mar 19, 2014)

Just realised I got my calculation wrong! It's about 30g carbs per PINT not half pint - noticed that the site I looked at had values per 100ml despite the fact I was looking at a pint. Looks like we are still mixing Imperial and Metric after 40 years  I should get a job with NASA (they famously crashed a probe into Mars because they had mixed Imperial and Metric distances and the probe thought it still had a long way to go when it arrived )

So 100ml = 5.0g carbs, 568ml (a pint) = 28.4g carbs.


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## Sheila of Eskdale (Mar 19, 2014)

HERE TINTIN said:


> This sounds to be a terrible situation to be in. Watering down the milk seems a good idea and maybe only having so much milk in the house. How would your dad react if there was hardly any milk in the house, would he drink a healthier option. There has to be more people out there dealing with diabetic relatives with Alzheimers,, is there any organisation who can help you with advice about this ?



We could try only getting a pint a day, it would mean either my Mum having to go and get milk everyday and she doesn't like leaving him, or one of the family getting milk everyday and taking it to them. But I can see him just getting annoyed that the milk is running out.

As for organisations, this is an absurd situation. As people get older they are more likely to get type 2 diabetes and more likely to get Alzheimers or other forms of dementia. So there are a large number of people who have both. Yet I have tried Age UK, various dementia charities and various diabetic charities. No one gives advice on dealing with both conditions. No one seems to comprehend that one affects the other. Diet advice for people with Alzheimers (they often lose interest in food) is all about making food interesting and tasty, nothing even considers diabetes. Diet advice on diabetes sites often has sections for children and young people but nothing for the elderly, nothing that even considers things like them not having many teeth left never mind Alzheimers.


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## Northerner (Mar 19, 2014)

I wonder if Diabetes UK's Careline could help Sheila, have you tried them? They may know of some resources. Contact details here:

http://www.diabetes.org.uk/How_we_help/Talk-to-someone/Careline/


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## HERE TINTIN (Mar 19, 2014)

Have you spoken to a dietician ?, you would think they could at least help you with ideas of what food your dad could and should eat a day. I dont know enough about type 2 as I am type 1, but would it be easier for you if you knew roughly how much carb your dad should have a day to work with his med and keep bs in a good range ? You may already know this, if his milk is a major food source for him can his meds not be altered to suit his consumption rather than distress him by taking it away from him ? I know as a type 1 I would just adjust my insulin to suit my carb intake, does it not work like that for type 2's ? Sorry for my ignorance on the subject. It just seems a shame to deprive him if he wants milk (even watered down milk) so much.


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## Copepod (Mar 19, 2014)

Just one possible idea for having just one milk bottle open at a time, and reducing the numbers of shopping trips for your Mother - she could buy several plastic bottles (1 or 2 pint) of fresh milk at one time, freeze bottles and defrost one per day, or alternatively, buy cartons of UHT milk (usually 500ml or 1 litre).

However, perhaps it really isn't worth the struggle to restrict his milk intake. Quality of life of Father and Mother are both important. While high blood glucose levels are not ideal, an elderly person with, say maximum 10 years more of life (not knowing your Dad's age, so this is a guess) means he can't get as many complications in those 10 years as, say a child or young adult who is diagnosed and needs to try to keep themself complication-free for decades.


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## Sheila of Eskdale (Mar 19, 2014)

HERE TINTIN said:


> Have you spoken to a dietician ?, you would think they could at least help you with ideas of what food your dad could and should eat a day. I dont know enough about type 2 as I am type 1, but would it be easier for you if you knew roughly how much carb your dad should have a day to work with his med and keep bs in a good range ? You may already know this, if his milk is a major food source for him can his meds not be altered to suit his consumption rather than distress him by taking it away from him ? I know as a type 1 I would just adjust my insulin to suit my carb intake, does it not work like that for type 2's ? Sorry for my ignorance on the subject. It just seems a shame to deprive him if he wants milk (even watered down milk) so much.


Last time we had contact with a dietician was when he was in hospital, because he'd lost a lot of weight due to poor appetite (we later found out it was a side effect of Metformin which he isn't on any more). The dietician said he needed to be on a high carb diet to put some more weight on, didn't seem to understand diabetes at all and no-one ever told us poor appetite could be due to the metformin. His appetite is now normal.
I think part of the problem is boredom that makes him snack and drink, but its hard to find things for him to do. He won't make an effort to do things he finds taxing to try and improve his mind. I made him some Flash Cards with WW2 airplanes on so he could practice learning them all, but he won't use them. I did snap cards with WW2 planes but he won't play with them because he doesn't do games, he thinks they're childish. There is very little on TV that he likes, he can't follow the plot of crime things, won't watch anything with sex or violence, can't hear anything where there's much background noise or strong accents.


Keeping milk in the freezer is a good idea, but we'll have to see his reaction to having it reduced. I do get what you're saying about it not being a problem long term but we believe the the high sugar level have contributed to him getting infected sores on his legs. That started in the Autumn, its nearly healed now but its been a long struggle to get him this far. Also the high blood sugar can make him more confused. 

I'm not sure how it works with using meds to balance the bloods, I know my Mum sets the does according to the blood sugar but I'm not sure if thats sufficient. We're seeing the doctor tomorrow so I'll ask if I get a chance, we don't know what it is he wants to discuss with us yet as he's a lot wrong with him.


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## Pumper_Sue (Mar 19, 2014)

Have you tried lactose free milk, there's a lot less carbs in it than ordinary milk? (3 carbs per 100 ml)


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## Northerner (Mar 19, 2014)

Slightly off topic Sheila, but I wondered if you were aware of the book Contented Dementia? I found it very helpful in understanding my mother's dementia and how best to communicate with her, whilst she was still able.


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