# The energy balance model of obesity: beyond calories in, calories out



## Eddy Edson (Feb 5, 2022)

energy balance model of obesity: beyond calories in, calories out
					

ABSTRACT. A recent Perspective article described the “carbohydrate-insulin model (CIM)” of obesity, asserting that it “better reflects knowledge on the biology




					academic.oup.com
				




Just published, an international collaboration of obesity research rock-stars setting things straight. 
_
... the brain is the primary organ responsible for body weight regulation operating primarily below our conscious awareness via complex endocrine, metabolic, and nervous system signals to control food intake in response to environmental influences as well as the body's energy needs._

With an explainer thread from lead Kevin Hall:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1489622951712354308
_Increased prevalence of common obesity isn't primarily due to weak willpower, inaccurate calorie counting, hungry fat cells, or too many carbs versus fat in the diet._

No, it's because of some shoddy design work on the part of Nature, combined with the availability of lots & lots of cheap appealing crappy food (my summary  )


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## Vonny (Feb 5, 2022)

Love your summary!


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## Christy (Feb 5, 2022)

Love your summary too! How do we expect people to spend ages & more money on nutritious food when tasty, addictive, cheap crap is available 24/7 and cooking is a dying art?? We need to tax the h*ll out of ultra processed crap...


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## travellor (Feb 5, 2022)

Well, cost of living rises and inflation means food is getting dearer, maybe the cheap food I grew up with will cease to exist.
I remember as a student, spag bog, the cheap 30% fat mince, tinned tomatoes, herbs, and spagetti.
Cheapest meal around.
The problem was food had got even cheaper since then, to the stage last year I had two freezers full, but since christmas I'm noticing price rises in supermarkets means I'm making more effort to start eating the stuff in there, rather than buying more.
Back to how my parents lived maybe, but hopefully not back to daily shopping.


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## Eddy Edson (Feb 6, 2022)

Christy said:


> Love your summary too! How do we expect people to spend ages & more money on nutritious food when tasty, addictive, cheap crap is available 24/7 and cooking is a dying art?? We need to tax the h*ll out of ultra processed crap...


Where I live it's back to school time, so new KFC ads on all the bus shelters offering free extra toxic crap if you buy some other toxic crap. There is no good reason why this should be legal.


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## travellor (Feb 6, 2022)

Eddy Edson said:


> Where I live it's back to school time, so new KFC ads on all the bus shelters offering free extra toxic crap if you buy some other toxic crap. There is no good reason why this should be legal.



It's not even cheap food.

I'm not really keen on KFC, too greasy.

I do eat Big Macs though.
In fact I make a pointing having one in every country I go to.
I think the dearest meal abroad worked out at about £10+ so far.
In the UK the meal is around £6 a head.

But they are edible, and sometimes the only food available.
I used to buy a fair number when I used to work, if it was late, and the choice was either a Macdonalds or dodgy local takeaway for everyone on site I got in the Macdonalds.
Consistent size, no one got food poisoning, it came in reasonable packaging to eat out of, but even then if was expensive. 
I put a few £100+ Maccy bills in.

KFC family feast - £21.99 nowadays!


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## Leadinglights (Feb 6, 2022)

travellor said:


> It's not even cheap food.
> 
> I'm not really keen on KFC, too greasy.
> 
> ...


I'm afraid KFC is called KFM  as my daughter many years ago was with friends and much to their disgust she had a Kentucky Fried Mouse.
A place to be avoided at all costs


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## trophywench (Feb 6, 2022)

Leadinglights said:


> I'm afraid KFC is called KFM  as my daughter many years ago was with friends and much to their disgust she had a Kentucky Fried Mouse.
> A place to be avoided at all costs


Well that particular branch of it to be avoided obviously.  But just because the one in Much Binding in the Marsh was vermin infested and no doubt insanitary anyway, does not mean the one down the road from our/your house is too!

Not that I even like KFC - but it's not wise to make such sweeping generalisations.


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## Leadinglights (Feb 6, 2022)

trophywench said:


> Well that particular branch of it to be avoided obviously.  But just because the one in Much Binding in the Marsh was vermin infested and no doubt insanitary anyway, does not mean the one down the road from our/your house is too!
> 
> Not that I even like KFC - but it's not wise to make such sweeping generalisations.


No it was down in Surrey, so we should be safe from that point of view. An ex colleague went to be an EHO in Cov so he used to give us the heads up of where to avoid.


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## Eddy Edson (Feb 6, 2022)

travellor said:


> It's not even cheap food.
> 
> I'm not really keen on KFC, too greasy.
> 
> ...



I can absolutely understand why Macca's has been so successful. It's far better food than the corner takeaway, for price and taste and pretty much for nutritional quality as well. 

All it needs is for fries and SSB to be banned, fibre added and the salt and satfats removed along with whatever thing it is that causes people too eat too much of it too quickly


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## trophywench (Feb 6, 2022)

Not that we generally infest take-aways, but what is SSB?  Super Sized summat?


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## Eddy Edson (Feb 6, 2022)

trophywench said:


> Not that we generally infest take-aways, but what is SSB?  Super Sized summat?


"Sugar sweetened beverages"


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## trophywench (Feb 6, 2022)

OK - think you just invented that particular one!


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## nonethewiser (Feb 6, 2022)

Had McD's in Liverpool just before christmas, very nice it was even though usually not big fan of chain, Burger King has far tastier burgers & also like kfc chicken but chips there are naff.


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## travellor (Feb 6, 2022)

Eddy Edson said:


> I can absolutely understand why Macca's has been so successful. It's far better food than the corner takeaway, for price and taste and pretty much for nutritional quality as well.
> 
> All it needs is for fries and SSB to be banned, fibre added and the salt and satfats removed along with whatever thing it is that causes people too eat too much of it too quickly



I avoid saturated fats, the burgers aren't heavy on fats, they are quite a well made, well looking beef pattie. But yes, too many would be bad for my cholesterol.
They went though a phase of not salting the fries prior to serving a while ago, a lot of the fast food places do the same.
Most of the drinks are diet, but they still have full sugar cola, orange, and oasis, so they could go.
I'm still unconvinced about the processing to make people overeat, or eat quickly, it's not something I do there, the burger roll is fairly bland for me, I can make better at home.
I think they have just have good advertising, sell an image people want, and spend a lot on market research, so the food is fine tuned to meet the market expectations.
Something like Wimpey or Little Chef never managed to refine, but they had a similar selection of food on offer, but didn't get vilified in the same way.


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## travellor (Feb 6, 2022)

Benny G said:


> Burger King's Spicy Bean Burger was the best. Need a time machine to travel back to the 90's to get one.


They do a veggie bean burger nowadays, not tried one myself though.


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## Eddy Edson (Feb 6, 2022)

travellor said:


> I avoid saturated fats, the burgers aren't heavy on fats, they are quite a well made, well looking beef pattie. But yes, too many would be bad for my cholesterol.
> They went though a phase of not salting the fries prior to serving a while ago, a lot of the fast food places do the same.
> Most of the drinks are diet, but they still have full sugar cola, orange, and oasis, so they could go.
> I'm still unconvinced about the processing to make people overeat, or eat quickly, it's not something I do there, the burger roll is fairly bland for me, I can make better at home.
> ...


So according to the local Macca's nutrition info, a Big Mac and small fries comes to 12.6g satfats and 1,200mg sodium.  

I follow the AHA guidelines - 5%-6% of calories from satfats, so at ~2,500kcal per day that's about 14g; and no more than 1,500mg sodium.  So the Big Mac and fries would be most of my daily allowances, while deficient in a bunch of vitamins and minerals, and fibre.

The AHA guidelines may be more hardcore than they need to be, but still ...


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## travellor (Feb 6, 2022)

Eddy Edson said:


> So according to the local Macca's nutrition info, a Big Mac and small fries comes to 12.6g satfats and 1,200mg sodium.
> 
> I follow the AHA guidelines - 5%-6% of calories from satfats, so at ~2,500kcal per day that's about 14g; and no more than 1,500mg sodium.  So the Big Mac and fries would be most of my daily allowances, while deficient in a bunch of vitamins and minerals, and fibre.
> 
> The AHA guidelines may be more hardcore than they need to be, but still ...


True, they are not the healthiest of meals.
But, compared to other similar meals, they are in the same ballpark.
I wouldn't have one every day, but the saturated fat would be much the same as a homemade burger.
I don't add salt, so that's more there to be fair.


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## Bruce Stephens (Feb 6, 2022)

travellor said:


> They do a veggie bean burger nowadays, not tried one myself though.


Do they, though? All I can see are generic sounding "plant-based burger", "crispy vegan patty", and their halloumi thing (which is obviously not generic but also not bean based).

I also liked the spicy bean burger. Seemed to me to be a worthwhile thing to keep on its own merits. But then my local Tesco seems not to sell their rather nice frozen bean burgers (now in fancier packaging and part of their "Plant" range). Instead they have a larger range of plant based things, but the ones I've tried so far just don't seem that nice.


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## mikeyB (Feb 7, 2022)

I don't like easting heavily processed foods, so I wouldn't eat any of these fake meat burgers. Plus the food miles. A lot of Soy beans are used, plus a lot of additional flavours pumped into them. I don't mind McDs, but actually prefer the taste of Burger King, because they are flame grilled. McDs burgers are meat from the UK and Ireland. I only eat them occasionally, when no alternatives are to hand, and easy to bolus for. I am an unreconstructed carnivore, I admit, but always eat a vegetarian meal once week or so for a change. Not vegan, mind. I prefer to leave that to the animals I eat to convert stuff like that to convert it into quality tasty protein. And, I might say, supplying my B12 needs.


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## travellor (Feb 8, 2022)

Eddy Edson said:


> So according to the local Macca's nutrition info, a Big Mac and small fries comes to 12.6g satfats and 1,200mg sodium.
> 
> I follow the AHA guidelines - 5%-6% of calories from satfats, so at ~2,500kcal per day that's about 14g; and no more than 1,500mg sodium.  So the Big Mac and fries would be most of my daily allowances, while deficient in a bunch of vitamins and minerals, and fibre.
> 
> The AHA guidelines may be more hardcore than they need to be, but still ...



I noticed yesterday, the "double big mac".
Four beef patties.
but still around 15g of saturated fats, and 2.8g of salt, or 1120mg of sodium.
The UK seems a little bit more food friendly,  18.8 and 1350mg in the Australian versions.


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