# Freestyle Libre - Sensor failure rate of 40%



## Derrick Baughan

Has anyone else kept a track of the failure rate of the sensor?

I have just started with the system. A 'trial' where I was issued a reader and one sensor, at the hospital but by a company rep. Clearly not a trial in the true sense of the word. More a marketing ploy to create demand. Although there is nothing inherently wrong with that. I am now self-funding the sensors until my CCG (Cambridgeshire) approve the use.

The system is a step change in how I manage my diabetes and I find it extremely useful. However, I now have my 5th sensor on and, after 4 days, it looks like it is failing. I keep getting the error message that glucose readings are not available, try again in a few minutes.

This will be the 2nd of 5 sensors to fail, a rate of 40%. Tomorrow I ring Abbot up to see what they have to say. Anyone else had a similar experience or am I just the unlucky one to get the Friday afternoon sensors?


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## Stitch147

I've probably only used 4 or 5 sensors, not had any issues at all.


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## everydayupsanddowns

I have been using Libre off and on since 2014, though not all the time, maybe 6-10 a year, though fewer in recent years.

In all I think I have had only two sensors that I have had replaced as they were not giving results within Abbott’s expectations.

I have never had any fall off or stop working, and all have lasted the full 14 days.

Seems like you have had an unfortunate experience. Certainly worth calling Abbott who can troubleshoot application etc. I am aware of some people for whom the system just doesn’t work (as seems to be the case with all the different continuous monitors), so hopefully this is just an unfortunate glitch rather than an indication of anything more long-term, since you are finding Libre useful.


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## Robin

I've used about 25 sensors since 2015, and I've only had to send one back ( it was consistently reading 3.0 or nothing at all right from the start, Abbot thought the sensor filament had probably kinked on entry) 
I really feel for people who don't find them a success. As you say, Derrick, it's an extremely useful management tool, and frustrating when it doesn't work.


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## Sally71

We are just coming up to 2 years of continuous use, so about 50 sensors. Out of all of those we have only had 2 which failed completely, right at the beginning of use, and got free replacements for those.  One my daughter managed to knock off her arm, I didn't send that one back because it wasn't Abbott's fault.  All the rest have lasted the full 14 days and worked pretty well right from the off; occasionally we get one which isn't quite as accurate as normal, but if you are aware of that you can work round it, e.g. if you know it always reads low then add a couple on to whatever it says and you'll be pretty close to the blood reading.  The one we had on over Christmas was probably the dodgiest, and I don't know if it was a duff sensor or if I hadn't positioned it well on her arm and she was leaning on it more than usual.  We activated it just before she went to bed, and for most of the night it was reading hypo when her finger pricks were consistently reading 8.5; by the morning it had settled and was much better although still not as close as usual (2-3 mmol out often and occasionally more).  I know a lot of people would have sent it back for that but we just did a few more finger pricks than normal and used it primarily for the trends, and apart from the first few hours it was always reading high when she was high and low when she was low so that was good enough for me.  (We always do finger pricks to calculate boluses anyway, and just scan in between if she thinks she might be low or to see whether any pump adjustments might be necessary.)


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## mikeyB

I’ve been using the Libre for well over a year. The only problem I’ve ever had was one sensor coming loose the day before I was due to change it. I occasionally see the “try again in ten minutes” message, but that has never been terminal.  I couldn’t imagine going back to finger pricking regularly (I always do when correcting hypos). I love it


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## Ljc

I’ve been using the Libre full time for a year.  I’ve had a couple of try again in 10 mins, I’ve knoced a off a couple , my last sensor was 4.0 above or below a meter reading for two days then became very accurate.

What I have noticed  is that fo r most of last year the sensors I recieved only had a 3 or 4 months shelf life and though I was happy with them they were not as accurate as the ones with the much longer shelf life that I have now, this last batch have an expirey date of August 2018 and once settled down in my arm ( I normally apply them a day or two before activating them, the ones I activate immediately are often not as accurate) are no more than 0.4 difference between meter and Libre.

I think it’s a good idea to contact Abbott, from what I have read on here, they are very good about replacing faulty sensors but they do want the faulty ones back to check them.

I hope Abbott can sort the problem out for you, as imo the amount of extra info the give is wonderful   it’s been a game changer for me.


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## pav

100% fail rate for me, from not working to reading very low compared to finger pricking even allowing for any time lag, gave up using it.


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## SB2015

They are expensive so after having one fall out, with no sticky on the back of it, I then used a tegaderm over the sensor.  At 50p a time it is well worth it to keep the sensor in for the full 14 days.  After that no problems, although I always find my BG readings are a bit different from the Libre, but they are reading different things so that is not a surprise.  When they are further apart I use that as a reminder to stay more hydrated.

The information that I get from the sensor is regarding patterns rather than specific readings, and for that it is invaluable, especially for heading off highs and lows.


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## HOBIE

No problems with them


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## Amberzak

I’ve had two sensors mess up. One was caused by the scan thing you get when you enter libraries and shops. My local library shut the sensor off. My first ever one fell off. And they replaced them both. 

I had to have my handset replaced in the summer. They said it broke due to extreme heat. They replaced it without charge.


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## Derrick Baughan

Derrick Baughan said:


> Has anyone else kept a track of the failure rate of the sensor?
> 
> I have just started with the system. A 'trial' where I was issued a reader and one sensor, at the hospital but by a company rep. Clearly not a trial in the true sense of the word. More a marketing ploy to create demand. Although there is nothing inherently wrong with that. I am now self-funding the sensors until my CCG (Cambridgeshire) approve the use.
> 
> The system is a step change in how I manage my diabetes and I find it extremely useful. However, I now have my 5th sensor on and, after 4 days, it looks like it is failing. I keep getting the error message that glucose readings are not available, try again in a few minutes.
> 
> This will be the 2nd of 5 sensors to fail, a rate of 40%. Tomorrow I ring Abbot up to see what they have to say. Anyone else had a similar experience or am I just the unlucky one to get the Friday afternoon sensors?


Full marks to Abbot. I phoned them up and they did not quibble about sending me a new sensor. I also mentioned that the reader touch screen function was intermittent and they are sending a replacement reader as well.


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## Ljc

Derrick Baughan said:


> Full marks to Abbot. I phoned them up and they did not quibble about sending me a new sensor. I also mentioned that the reader touch screen function was intermittent and they are sending a replacement reader as well.


That’s good to hear. I hope the new sensor and reader works well for you.


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## Rene Droomer

Amberzak said:


> I’ve had two sensors mess up. One was caused by the scan thing you get when you enter libraries and shops. My local library shut the sensor off. My first ever one fell off. And they replaced them both.
> 
> I had to have my handset replaced in the summer. They said it broke due to extreme heat. They replaced it without charge.



Not sure what is inside the sensor, but if it is a microchip of sorts, when I was a satellite tech on an aerospace program our chips could run in conditions up to 80 deg C, so Im not so sure about the heat excuse?? That being said Im not using a Libra yet so cant comment on much else. They will need to look at the heat issue if it is to be used in diverse countries as temperature in Africa, where I am originally from can hit up to 40 plus C and Im sure temps in the States and Europe in some places would get to around that.


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## mikeyB

The reader may struggle with extreme heat, for example being left on a sunny windowsill. This applies to ordinary meters as well - I have had temperature warnings in the past from various meters.

The sensors tolerate any temperature that you could, so there’s no problem in hot climates.


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## Lisa66

When I came in from an early morning walk last week, the sensor wouldn't work, said it was too cold. Was fine half an hour later.


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## mikeyB

Poor little thing. Should have kissed it better


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## Doghouse

Hi all, not been here for some time, but my reason for visiting is to post a question that is the topic of this thread - how spooky.

I am an occasional user of the Libre. About six months ago I fitted one, it worked for about 8 days then started to fail. I got the 10 minute messages, and many messages that the sensor was not available. Sometimes it worked for a bit, but there were many gaps in the records of minutes to hours. Eventually it stopped altogether. I contacted Abbott, and they changed it.

I am now wearing the replacement, I have 10 days to go, and it showing the same symptoms, also this is my fifth sensor, so this also is 40% reliability. I’ll be contacting Abbott in the morning.

My suspicion is that the fault is in the connector between the sensor filament and the sensor body, the part that is put together when assembling the sensor for use. I have probably knocked it about a bit today, and perhaps this connector is rather fragile. If it was a sensor controller problem then once failed, it would probably never work again.


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## mikeyB

It would appear that some folk just don’t get on with the Libre. It’s not a systemic problem with the kit, otherwise many folk, statistically, would at least get the odd duff sensor. But there are folk like me on the forum who have _never_ had a problem that wasn’t their own mishap. 

The problem, therefore must lie somewhere along the line of constructing the applicator, and the application itself. The technique I use is first of all, clean the skin thoroughly with the wipes provided to clear any oil, or residual dried  shower gel. A quick wipe is not really sufficient. While that is drying, build the applicator taking care that the lines are accurately lined up. The pressure needed when applying the sensor is the pressure needed to trigger the mechanism. Don’t hold the applicator otherwise, or do anything that might reduce the pressure. Don’t immediately remove the applicator - wait for about ten to fifteen seconds for the adhesive to warm up, then carefully lift the applicator off. I always give the sensor a little press to reassure myself it’s stuck down, but that’s a touch paranoid.

As I say, I’ve never had a problem following that routine.  And the old sensors usually take a week or more to drop off after their expiry.

I’m sorry for putting the blame on the user, but that’s the only possible explanation, unless folk are so unlucky that they are the only ones who consistently get duff kit. How likely is that? And Abbott are probably thinking the same thing. They just don’t produce stuff with an intrinsic 40% failure rate.


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## mikeyB

That’s interesting, Benny. I certainly don’t get wildly erroneous readings towards the end of two weeks, when I’ve checked with fingerpricks, and I don’t notice any gaps on the trace. For sure, it would be interesting if you sent your data to Abbott. I’d love to see what their response is.


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## RhiWJ

I changed to the Freestyle Libre in September 2018 and I've had several fail. All before the first scan. I've actually had 2 fail this very day. If the sensors were £5 - £10 or my pharmacy wasn't as strict with giving me hem to me (it's 2 a month and if they fail...tough) I wouldn't mind buying a few spares myself bit at approx. £60.00 for 1...I can't afford that. They don't come with sonethsom like the Skin-Tac wipes to help them stay on either. It's just all very frustrating. Especially when I've just started the pump and being able to see the daily line graph and my averages etc. Is a massive help. Very dissapointed in the Freestyle Libre at the moment. When it's good it's great but when it's bad it's spectacularly awful!


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## Ljc

Hello @RhiWJ  welcome to the forum.  I am sorry  to hear you are having problems with the Libre, what’s been happening ?

Some people use Tegaderm over the sensor to help keep it on, you need to cut a hole in anything you use to cover the sensor as the hole in the sensor is there to keep the skin under the sensor healthy and dry. 
Personally I don’t  cover mine with anything , I’ve just got very careful when going through doorways and place my sensor right round the back  of my arm which means I apply and swipe my sensor under arm rather than going over the top.

Abbott are very good at replacing faulty sensors or readers so do give them a call, they will need the faulty ones back  , they send a prepaid envelope. 

As to your pharmacy not allowing you an extra sensor it may not be them , it’s possibly  the prescriber eg one of your  team or the gp that is limiting them , so do have a word with them .  If that fails they can be bought cheaper from Abbott as they remove VAT as can your pharmacy, they are still dear though.  To me it makes perfect sense to have a spare or two, I would hate to be without all that additional info.  Atm Abbott are closed to new customers as they are dealing with a backlog and also dealing with launching a new s sensor  system that has alarms , I am avidly waiting for it to become available in the UK.


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## everydayupsanddowns

Sorry to hear you are having trouble @RhiWJ

I’d agree with @Ljc - it’s certainly worth gettting in touch with Abbott about these failures so that they can troubleshoot the sensors and keep track of any lot numbers that are seeing more failures than expected.

I’ve been using Libre off and on since 2014, and I’ve had one (I think) end early in all that time. I’ve never had one fall off either. At the end of 2 weeks I have to carefully prise them off - they stick to me like a limpet. I do wonder if some people's skin and body chemistry just don’t suit different sensors.

Hope you find one that works for you, if Libre isn’t playing ball. Have you spoken to your hospital about Libre on prescription since the new national criteria came into force at the start of the month?


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## JGJ

Ive been using Libre since May 2019 and overaall, it's brilliant very convenient i.e. easy to use on the golf course and just before and after my training sessions and 5 a side sessions, bth of which are high intensity even for me at nearly 69 years old. 

There are differences between finger prick tests and its readings in both directions but these are expected so not a problem. The main problem I have had is that I've had the sensor start failing after about 10 days for most most of them. Abbott are brillant about replacing them but as soon as the readewr or the app says about mostly 5 days left then not every reading works. I think I've only had about 6 go right through without the error 373 (read again in 10 mins) happening. This obvously shows gaps in the daily graphs.

Having said that, I wouldn't change it, as it makes it very easy and convenient during those sorting sessions - and  to convince my wife I'm not low or to show she's right (most of the time!!) but I wish it would last for the full expected timescale more often.


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## everydayupsanddowns

JGJ said:


> I wish it would last for the full expected timescale more often.



Welcome to the forum @JGJ

Sorry to hear you are finding the sensors end early quite often for you.

Do you wear them as recommended on the back of the arm? And do you ever use additional tape over the top to secure them?


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## Amity Island

Derrick Baughan said:


> Has anyone else kept a track of the failure rate of the sensor?
> 
> I have just started with the system. A 'trial' where I was issued a reader and one sensor, at the hospital but by a company rep. Clearly not a trial in the true sense of the word. More a marketing ploy to create demand. Although there is nothing inherently wrong with that. I am now self-funding the sensors until my CCG (Cambridgeshire) approve the use.
> 
> The system is a step change in how I manage my diabetes and I find it extremely useful. However, I now have my 5th sensor on and, after 4 days, it looks like it is failing. I keep getting the error message that glucose readings are not available, try again in a few minutes.
> 
> This will be the 2nd of 5 sensors to fail, a rate of 40%. Tomorrow I ring Abbot up to see what they have to say. Anyone else had a similar experience or am I just the unlucky one to get the Friday afternoon sensors?


Over the past year, only 2 have fallen off, both after a warm bath. The warm water softens the adhesive. For that reason I don't bath anymore, I shower instead.


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## Kaylz

Never had one fall off, had 1 replaced due to reading low and I'm in the process of trying to obtain a replacement for current sensor, I'm going to have to change it tomorrow although it doesn't finish until Thursday as its been reading low since the beginning but today its been running at least 30% lower than finger pricks  xx


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## JGJ

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Welcome to the forum @JGJ
> 
> Sorry to hear you are finding the sensors end early quite often for you.
> 
> Do you wear them as recommended on the back of the arm? And do you ever use additional tape over the top to secure them?



Thanks for the quick reply, Mike.
Re the wearing placement, I tend to place them on the underside of my arm next to my side when arm next to my body. This helps for easier reading with mobile especially on the golf course and doing my volunteer work. For my weekly sporting activities (training session and 5 a side football), I occasionally wear one of those elbow brace bandages you can get in Poundland but just during the session. It's more of a preventive thing especially in the football as it's quite competitive. 
I see some people are saying they've had them fall off. I've never had any do that. It's just the failing problem usually after 10 days and then having to decide whether to keep going with regular failed readings but still occasional successes (giving gaps in the daily graphs!) or change immediately so it's always there for me.


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## everydayupsanddowns

All of mine have always run full term, but I’ve seen some discussion on the Facebook Group where people have been taping sensors down very firmly (which some suggest can lead to problems).

I wonder if it might be worth trying on the back of the arm, rather than the inside (reaching around the outside to scan rather than under the arm)?

Can’t really explain why yours are failing early, and it must be frustrating for you.


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## mysticcowgirl

Derrick Baughan said:


> Has anyone else kept a track of the failure rate of the sensor?
> 
> I have just started with the system. A 'trial' where I was issued a reader and one sensor, at the hospital but by a company rep. Clearly not a trial in the true sense of the word. More a marketing ploy to create demand. Although there is nothing inherently wrong with that. I am now self-funding the sensors until my CCG (Cambridgeshire) approve the use.
> 
> The system is a step change in how I manage my diabetes and I find it extremely useful. However, I now have my 5th sensor on and, after 4 days, it looks like it is failing. I keep getting the error message that glucose readings are not available, try again in a few minutes.
> 
> This will be the 2nd of 5 sensors to fail, a rate of 40%. Tomorrow I ring Abbot up to see what they have to say. Anyone else had a similar experience or am I just the unlucky one to get the Friday afternoon sensors?


I am currently at 50 % (1 out of 2) sensor failures. Spoke to Abbott today, the rep acknowledged a very high failure rate due to the following possibilities: shipment damaged on way to airport; shipment x-rayed at airport; damaged in transit by handling or temperature from airport, from warehouse, from point of sale; once at home. That’s why they replace them- they can, and do, fail often and for a myriad of reasons.


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## Kaylz

mysticcowgirl said:


> I am currently at 50 % (1 out of 2) sensor failures. Spoke to Abbott today, the rep acknowledged a very high failure rate due to the following possibilities: shipment damaged on way to airport; shipment x-rayed at airport; damaged in transit by handling or temperature from airport, from warehouse, from point of sale; once at home. That’s why they replace them- they can, and do, fail often and for a myriad of reasons.


They dont fail too often to be fair, I've been using them solid for a year and only needed 3 replacements xx


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## everydayupsanddowns

Welcome to the forum @mysticcowgirl 

How long have you been using Libre? Like @Kaylz I get very few which need replacing, but I remember that in the first past I had (2014!) one worked much better than the other - at least in the first few days... and had I been told that half were likely to fail I could well have asked for a replacement. It settled down fine after 4 days though.

I guess if you’ve had a few dodgy ones early on, then the proportion is going to be skewed, until you’ve used more. Unless of course, the Libre just doesn’t suit you - we’ve some members here for whom the Libre just doesn’t work as expected. But for the vast majority of members here who use Libre the failure rate is quite low.


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## SB2015

Welcome to the forum @mysticcowgirl .

I have used them for about three years and had only one fail.  Another fell off as soon as I had put it on with no sticky, and one I dislodged by hitting a door frame.  Otherwise very good, and so useful.
I hope that you find them useful too.


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## JGJ

Hi Folks,
Hope all of you are Ok in these strange times.

Just a quick update from my previous posting re consistent sensor failure after about 10 days. From May up to the beginning of this year, I would say the failure rate of my sensors was about 80%, all after about 10 days usage and recurring message 373 telling me to try again in 10 mins. No problems with falling off or anything else people have mentioned here. Since then (and I'm touching a big block of wood here) they've all been fine. 

During the problem times, I must thank Abbott for their speedy replacement of all the bad sensors. I also sent the them back as instructed for them to be checked. It's disappointing to have heard nothing back re possible failure reasons though.

I guess there was a bad batch manufactured as happens. Now I'm very happy with this method of checking my status - although, of course, the sporting side isn't necessary at the moment!!


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## trophywench

You seriously expect any commercial company to appraise a customer of the reasons for a failure?

I - seriously! - wonder what their own contract terms with whoever make them, is?  I've had to send a pump handset back twice cos they failed (same mfr, but different pumps) but as I had alternative glucometers in hand at the time, NP.   I had a pump failure too with my first pump - but a bit later they published an alert warning all users not to do something I'd been doing for ages, so I concluded that WAS the reason mine failed - but I've no idea cos they never tell me either.  Hence, you're not alone. 

They have no idea whatever whether you, I or anyone else could make any trouble about it wherever we wanted to, do they!


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## grovesy

Many years ago I sent a meter back to OneTouch, they never let me know if or what the problem was if any. I also had to send test strips back to them at the same time never had any feed back on them either.


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## jparrie

Hi everyone,

Thought I'd revive this thread as I ordered the starter kit for my mother a few weeks ago. All was going well up until day 10, then no reading. My problem is that I have to rely on nurses to administer for my mother who is cared for at home in the UK (I am overseas), which makes life very difficult when things don't work as expected.  I've already noticed that the nurses didn't attach the device properly and I am in the process of finding out whether they know what they are doing with the reader (they didn't even charge it). But from what I have read and seen, even a child could operate this thing. It would be disappointing if the sensors were still failing after all this time in the marketplace.


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## grovesy

They do fail still, but Abbott have a fairly good track record of replacing,if they think it is a problem.Also if she got 10 days out of one I can't been that badly attached. I have had them not work from the start. They ask various questions, and may want to know serial number and where you got them from.
When you say nurses do you mean trained nurses or care workers? I doubt all of either have even seen one let alone be familiar with.


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## Robin

I had one a few months ago that worked absolutely fine for 10 days, then suddenly the reader gave me a 'Your sensor has stopped working' message. It was still firmly attached. I rang Abbot who didn’t seem surprised, and sent out a replacement, so I wonder if this is a known something that happens occasionally.


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## rebrascora

@jparrie 
I imagine it would be very easy for carers to dislodge the sensor when they are bathing an elderly person or helping them dress. I have to always have it in my mind which arm my sensor is on when I get in the shower and be careful about not scrubbing that arm like I do the other one.... particularly as I like a hot shower and the heat can make the adhesive less stable. I pinged one off on it's second last day after a run when I pulled off my sweatshirt without taking enough care.

When you know the sensor is there you are generally more careful/protective of it, but carers are likely to forget about the sensor until perhaps they catch it. It may also be that your mother's skin is dry or not being prepped appropriately and after than period of time the skin under the sensor is starting to flake off. Once the sensor starts to lift a bit and the filament is dislodged slightly, it won't work. 

I wonder if supplying an adhesive patch like Tegaderm to be applied over the sensor might improve it's lifespan for your mother. My gut feeling is that the failure is down to the situation that your Mum is in with carers or nurses looking after her and not being as aware/careful of the sensor as you would be yourself and it is getting knocked or snagged during everyday care. That is no criticism of the carers as even I forget which arm my LIbre sensor is on sometimes.


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## jparrie

@grevesy  By nurses I mean trained District Nurses. 

So an update...  I managed to get one of the DNs to ring Abbott yesterday. They ran through the trouble shooting and managed to get the device to register the new sensor. Then today, "Timed out: Sensor not found". So I rang the help line, which because of Covid is now handled overseas (oh joy), and they now want to run the same tests again. Countless  questions that I can't answer, I'm getting a bit sick of this.


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## grovesy

jparrie said:


> @grevesy  By nurses I mean trained District Nurses.
> 
> So an update...  I managed to get one of the DNs to ring Abbott yesterday. They ran through the trouble shooting and managed to get the device to register the new sensor. Then today, "Timed out: Sensor not found". So I rang the help line, which because of Covid is now handled overseas (oh joy), and they now want to run the same tests again. Countless  questions that I can't answer, I'm getting a bit sick of this.


Oh, District Nurses are general all rounders, not particularly experts in Diabetes. The forgien call handlers is nothing to do with Covid, Abbott have done that for a long time, I had problems with one who could hardly understand me and and I could hardly understand him, and refused to pass me on to any one else, this was more than18 months ago.
It could possibly be the Libre does not suit your mum for what ever reason. It does not seem to suit everyone. 
Have you searched the forum for all libre threads?


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## daducky88

Robin said:


> I've used about 25 sensors since 2015, and I've only had to send one back ( it was consistently reading 3.0 or nothing at all right from the start, Abbot thought the sensor filament had probably kinked on entry)
> I really feel for people who don't find them a success. As you say, Derrick, it's an extremely useful management tool, and frustrating when it doesn't work.





Amberzak said:


> I’ve had two sensors mess up. One was caused by the scan thing you get when you enter libraries and shops. My local library shut the sensor off. My first ever one fell off. And they replaced them both.
> 
> I had to have my handset replaced in the summer. They said it broke due to extreme heat. They replaced it without charge.


Useful information, but disturbing.


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## sololite

Two+ years of use here. I managed to ping off two catching on a door in early days and one that went haywire on holiday. All replaced by Abbott without having to send back


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## RascallyBear

RhiWJ said:


> I changed to the Freestyle Libre in September 2018 and I've had several fail. All before the first scan. I've actually had 2 fail this very day. If the sensors were £5 - £10 or my pharmacy wasn't as strict with giving me hem to me (it's 2 a month and if they fail...tough) I wouldn't mind buying a few spares myself bit at approx. £60.00 for 1...I can't afford that. They don't come with sonethsom like the Skin-Tac wipes to help them stay on either. It's just all very frustrating. Especially when I've just started the pump and being able to see the daily line graph and my averages etc. Is a massive help. Very dissapointed in the Freestyle Libre at the moment. When it's good it's great but when it's bad it's spectacularly awful!


Abbot will replace any failed sensor. It's a freephone number. Just give them a call. They want/need to know what's going wrong, so will also send you some returns labels. So, don't talk to your pharmacy, but phone Abbot. I've sent back about 25 failed sensors.


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## trophywench

Well you know normal BG monitors that us Type 1s have been relying on for 40 odd years?  they don't like being baked in the sun either, and neither does insulin!  They all tell users that in the instructions for use, so what's 'disturbing' about it?


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## RascallyBear

JGJ said:


> Hi Folks,
> Hope all of you are Ok in these strange times.
> 
> Just a quick update from my previous posting re consistent sensor failure after about 10 days. From May up to the beginning of this year, I would say the failure rate of my sensors was about 80%, all after about 10 days usage and recurring message 373 telling me to try again in 10 mins. No problems with falling off or anything else people have mentioned here. Since then (and I'm touching a big block of wood here) they've all been fine.
> 
> During the problem times, I must thank Abbott for their speedy replacement of all the bad sensors. I also sent the them back as instructed for them to be checked. It's disappointing to have heard nothing back re possible failure reasons though.
> 
> I guess there was a bad batch manufactured as happens. Now I'm very happy with this method of checking my status - although, of course, the sporting side isn't necessary at the moment!!


I've recently been getting the same too, Jim. Lots of sensors failing with the same message after around 10 days. I've also, only recently, been experiencing applicator failures where the applicator doesn't spring forwards smoothly. It pauses and doesn't push the needle home note attach the sensor fully. Sometimes the sensor is left inside the applicator. Manufacuring defects. I think the manufacturing machines need replacing, but they're not doing that because Libre 2 is coming out. A great system when it works. I have very few problems last year, but the past 12 months have been dispiriting.


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## grovesy

RascallyBear said:


> I've recently been getting the same too, Jim. Lots of sensors failing with the same message after around 10 days. I've also, only recently, been experiencing applicator failures where the applicator doesn't spring forwards smoothly. It pauses and doesn't push the needle home note attach the sensor fully. Sometimes the sensor is left inside the applicator. Manufacuring defects. I think the manufacturing machines need replacing, but they're not doing that because Libre 2 is coming out. A great system when it works. I have very few problems last year, but the past 12 months have been dispiriting.


The Libre 2 is out has been available since January.


----------



## mikeyB

I’ve moved seamlessly on to the Libre 2. I’ve never had a problem with the applicator, which is completely unchanged, and only once have I had to report a sensor failure in the years I’ve been using it. I’d have to be the luckiest person alive if the above reported failure rates were Abbott’s fault.

I self fund because I can easily afford to, but I’d be the first to complain if there were regular problems.


----------



## mark king

I too have only had one sensor fail over the 3 years I have used them and that was on application the catheter broke free, think it was a one off and was replaced no problem.  I have had a few give the error try again in 10 mins but so far re-trying to read straight away has seen it work ok so again no major problem.
I am about to swap over to the Libre 2, looking forward to it.

Best


----------



## SB2015

I used a Libre for for many years.  I had ‘errors’ when my arm met the door frame, which I could hardly ask them to replace.  Any other failures they would ask for comparative BG results and if out by too much they replaced without any hassle. 

The applicator was easy to use and I inserted a day before I wanted to activate it.  I found that it was invaluable for spotting patterns and great when playing sport for ease of use, especially when swimming.  

My readings were good in the mid range, but tended to read higher when I was high and lower when I was low.  I then just used used BG to check things out.


----------



## RascallyBear

mikeyB said:


> I’ve moved seamlessly on to the Libre 2. I’ve never had a problem with the applicator, which is completely unchanged, and only once have I had to report a sensor failure in the years I’ve been using it. I’d have to be the luckiest person alive if the above reported failure rates were Abbott’s fault.
> 
> I self fund because I can easily afford to, but I’d be the first to complain if there were regular problems.


Nobody said the applicator had changed. There's no reason why it should
I do wish people would read .
I said I suspect that the older model, the Libre Mk1 if you will, may be the last batches from a factory that's near end of life, which would explain the high incidence of failures that I'm hearing about.


----------



## dante01

I've been using the first gen and now the Libre 2 sensors since about Frebruary of last year. The failure rate is abnormally high and can sometimes occur within hours of applying a sensor. I've had to replace the sensor more than 2 times in a row on multiple occassions. I'm lucky if a sensor lasts me the 2 weeks they are supposed to without being told that it has failed and needs replacing. 

There's something serriously wrong with these items.


----------



## helli

I am another long term user with very few failures.
Some have fallen off due to bad placement (user error) and one has given up the ghost and failed to scan 
I can't comment on the accuracy because I use a different app to read which allows calibration 
I do not use the reader as my phone is an extension of me so always around and I hate carrying extra stuff unnecessarily.


----------



## nonethewiser

Been using libre 2 since start of year, not had one fail or contacted Abbott about any issues.,with 1 version had about 6 sensor failures.

 Find with 2 it reads more accurate & time lag doesn't seem as long, alarms are bonus & prevented fair few hypos by alerting me beforehand, have low alarm set for 4.5 & take note of arrow when alerted on whether to act or not.


----------



## Robin

dante01 said:


> I've been using the first gen and now the Libre 2 sensors since about Frebruary of last year. The failure rate is abnormally high and can sometimes occur within hours of applying a sensor. I've had to replace the sensor more than 2 times in a row on multiple occassions. I'm lucky if a sensor lasts me the 2 weeks they are supposed to without being told that it has failed and needs replacing.
> 
> There's something serriously wrong with these items.


It seems to me that either people get on fine and have very few failures (I’ve had 2 in 3 years) or they don’t get on with them at all and have multiple failures. I hope Abbott is collecting data on how the failures are distributed, not just on how many fail as a percentage of the whole, though with modern GDPR rules, I wonder if they are allowed to. It would be good if they could work out why they seem to fail on some people all the time, and hardly ever on others.


----------



## rebrascora

Almost all of my failures have been due to them starting to lift and disturbing the filament..... either because I caught them or they worked loose, perhaps due to the placement on my arm where a muscle was flexing a lot. I know @helli has mentioned this before but the size makes it difficult to find a good flat spot on the arm for some of us, meaning that there is an increased risk of the edges lifting on small or well muscled arms. I am finding my arm band is making a huge difference in supporting it to prevent this. It is a shame that Abbott have discouraged the use of such products as over taping or arm bands or the placement on alternative sites on the body where the sensor would perhaps be less exposed to movement or being knocked. I was reluctant to go against their advice, but I really like my arm band and it has made a huge difference to my confidence in wearing the product... particularly when I am working outdoors with bare arms.


----------



## JGJ

Just an update to recent messages about failures.. After the initial run during my first few months in 2019 when many failed at the 10 day mark (Libre 1s, of course), they've been relatively consistent in lasting the full 14 days. Just the odd failure for whatever reason but all replaced by Abbott very quickly. Since I upgraded to Libre 2, the failure rate is very low and the on going convenience of being able to test while golfing or even during keep fit sessions is still a massive bonus these days. The only problem I have with Libre 2 and the alarms is that you can't get them on both items if you use the reader and the mobile app. I use the reader sitting on my bedside cabinet during the night with alarms set but through the day, I use the phone app as it's always with me. The phone is on charge overnight in a different room (my old built in business organisation traits still with me after over 10 years retirement!). This works well but it would be handy if I could get the alarms on the phone as well. Abbott sorted the online results in Libreview where at first, the reader's results and the app's results weren't merged and you had to check 2 sets. They fixed that so they all appear together now so I hope they'll update the s/w on the app and reader to do something similar


----------



## trophywench

Robin said:


> It seems to me that either people get on fine and have very few failures (I’ve had 2 in 3 years) or they don’t get on with them at all and have multiple failures. I hope Abbott is collecting data on how the failures are distributed, not just on how many fail as a percentage of the whole, though with modern GDPR rules, I wonder if they are allowed to. It would be good if they could work out why they seem to fail on some people all the time, and hardly ever on others.


GDPR rules advise that you only keep personal info from which a person can be tracked down and identified 'for as long as required by the business in connection with the operation of its business (as stated in its company registration)' - so if you need the info in connection with the business, you are legally able to retain it for as long as you need it.   The Law does not mean you have to delete everything pdq, always.  

Does mean you have a system to formally review what you have kept, on an ongoing basis, though, do an assessment of it and react to that assessment  accordingly.


----------



## pm133

Very fortunate so far and had no sensor failures, issues with applicators or with devices coming loose from my arm since I started using them a few months ago.
Yet to move to Libre 2 though and am holding off on that for now.


----------



## dante01

I've been in contact with Abbott today and related my issue to them. They've as expected said that they will be sending me a replacement.

I also specifically asked them as to why the issue and or issues I've been experiencing occurred, asking whether it was due to user error or a device/sensor related fault? The answer was that the error codes I'd given indicate an issue with the sensor as opposed to it being due to how the sensor was applied or it being due to how a user has used the sensor. Specifics cannot be determined by the code, hence why they like people to return the faulty sensors to them for their technicians to scrutinise and work out what went wrong.


I must be on the short list for bad production batches?????


Also note that if you do a google search for issues with the sensor then there are quite a few hits that will indicate that the failure rate is a lot higher than some are suggesting here. This seems to be on the increase just recently. Maybe they've had issues in relation to manufacturing and or product quality control during the pandemic? I've also noted that Abbott have now stopped including swabs with the sensors. This may again be because of the pandemic or maybe a cost cutting exercise?


----------



## Robin

dante01 said:


> I've been in contact with Abbott today and related my issue to them. They've as expected said that they will be sending me a replacement.
> 
> I also specifically asked them as to why the issue and or issues I've been experiencing occurred, asking whether it was due to user error or a device/sensor related fault? The answer was that the error codes I'd given indicate an issue with the sensor as opposed to it being due to how the sensor was applied or it being due to how a user has used the sensor. Specifics cannot be determined by the code, hence why they like people to return the faulty sensors to them for their technicians to scrutinise and work out what went wrong.
> 
> 
> I must be on the short list for bad production batches?????
> 
> 
> Also note that if you do a google search for issues with the sensor then there are quite a few hits that will indicate that the failure rate is a lot higher than some are suggesting here. This seems to be on the increase just recently. Maybe they've had issues in relation to manufacturing and or product quality control during the pandemic? I've also noted that Abbott have now stopped including swabs with the sensors. This may again be because of the pandemic or maybe a cost cutting exercise?


The wipes were discontinued because of problems with the CE mark when they buy them in from different sources, according to Abbott, there was a long discussion on it here.(and no doubt it saves them some money as well)


			https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/no-more-alcohol-wipes-with-freestyle-libre-1-and-2.91910/
		


I think it's difficult to assess the failure rate (presumably Abbott know!) because people only tend to mention it when they have a problem, nobody ever starts a thread 'guess what, I didn’t have a problem with my last sensor'!
Also, because of their offer of a free trial of a Libre 2 to new customers, and the fact that I have just managed to secure one on prescription after a long wait, I suspect a lot more people are using them, so I don’t know if the failure rate has gone up in percentage terms.


----------



## dante01

Interesting that you mention prescriptions. My GP's surgury sent me a circular recently that specificallyy addressed the Libre and made it clear that if one fails then you can contact Abbott directly to get a replacement. Is this a result of more people now being able to get them on prescription and contacting their GP when a sensor fails?

I'd not previously discussed it with my GP and already knew that I'd be able to get replacements directly from Abbott. Diabetic Nurses at clinics  seem to go out of their way to tell patients this if and when discussing Libre sensors.


----------



## Paulbreen

I’m a user since 2015 and apart from a 3 month pump/CGM test I have used them continuously so 130+ used, 3 failed due to heat in the summer of 2018 and an adhesive issue, like others have said looks like some people just don’t get on with them, I’m very glad I’m not one of them lol


----------



## dante01

I had 3 fail in a row yesterday all with an error code of 365/366. As I said, the error codes suggest that it was an issue with said sensors.

I have no problems with applying them, them adhering to my skin or using them ro get glucose readings. The issue I have is with the sensor failing. I've never had one fall off, I've never managed to knock one off and the only issue I have is with them failing to actually work.


----------



## HollyerThanthou

I have been trying to use the freestyle libre 2 for 3 weeks. I am prediabetic and have EPI. The first one failed after about 14 hours. Lots of 'try again in 10 minutes' Only working intermittently. Then 'your 14 days is up please replace your sensor'. I contacted them and they sent out a fresh one (they asked me to attach a spare! I explained I was self funding so no spare!). They sent out a fresh one it failed immediately. I was using the other arm. They sent out a third one. I didn't activate it for 24 hours there was some internet chatter about them needing to settle. I activated it - it worked with 50/50 error messages. 'Hold the phone over the sensor wait for the beep'. Wait 10 minutes etc. I used it for 2.5 days. Had a shower last night. Was very careful had also pressed the edge down with a butter knife pressing on the clear part to ensure adherence when first fitted. Today it fell off. Not sure where. I like the system it just seems madly unreliable. They even sent a free bgm with the last one! Madness. These are on the free trial they are running. So I'm not sure if they're just rubbish ones and as they have the NHS they don't care about self funding customers..? But wow. Just wow. Stunned at a product that is so poor.


----------



## Kaylz

HollyerThanthou said:


> These are on the free trial they are running. So I'm not sure if they're just rubbish ones and as they have the NHS they don't care about self funding customers..?


They are all the same sensors, I've now used 5 Libre 2's and I'll be calling in for the 4th replacement out of them tomorrow, my first fell off in under 12 hours, second worked fine, third failed to even start, fourth ended after 8 days and last nights stopped working tonight, hoping the one I've applied now works! xx


----------



## everydayupsanddowns

Sorry you are both having such a tough time with sensors not working well for you 

I’ve used Libre off and on since 2014, and have yet to have one fall off that wasn’t knocked by me in the first 12 hours, or which didn’t need careful levering off at the end of the 14 days. I wonder whether some skin types / body chemistries just suit the adhesive better?

I wonder if either you’ve just been really unlucky, whether there’s a slightly duff batch, or whether there’s something not right about the insertion process? Lots of ‘10 minutes’ and non-starters seem to suggest the filament isn’t seating properly after the needle withdraws?


----------



## Robin

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Sorry you are both having such a tough time with sensors not working well for you
> 
> I’ve used Libre off and on since 2014, and have yet to have one fall off that wasn’t knocked by me in the first 12 hours, or which didn’t need careful levering off at the end of the 14 days. I wonder whether some skin types / body chemistries just suit the adhesive better?
> 
> I wonder if either you’ve just been really unlucky, whether there’s a slightly duff batch, or whether there’s something not right about the insertion process? Lots of ‘10 minutes’ and non-starters seem to suggest the filament isn’t seating properly after the needle withdraws?


You've got to wonder whether they’ve tweaked them in some way, I had very few problems with the original Libre, I sent back 2 failed sensors in 5 years, on a usage of one a month, between 2015 and 2020. I swapped to the Libre 2 earlier this year, and the first two sensors both read 2 mmol/L above a fingerprick, the third sensor started very low, and only got into what I'd call reliable range on about day 5, then it fell off 2 days before the end (I didn’t report it, I got a bit sunburnt a couple of weeks ago, and started peeling, so I think it was the skin that flaked, not the adhesive!) I had to start up another straight way without my usual 24hr bedding in time, and it resolutely said I was 2.9 for the first day. I announced to my husband that I was going to have to send it back, whereupon it sprang into life, shot up to 6.8 and has been fine ever since.  Had the Libre 2 been my first experience, I think I’d be doubting the technology by now.


----------



## everydayupsanddowns

Gosh, that is odd. I’ve only used 3 Libre2 sensors so far. 1 was a bit dodgy results-wise (which was really disappointing given the official data on improved accuracy). But the next 2 were spot-on, very very close to fingersticks (lag permitting), and all lasted the 14 days. 

If the Dex wasn’t working so well with me with the pump, I’d be using them full time and would have more insight. 

Still... Libre 3 will be out ‘soon’. probably.


----------



## HollyerThanthou

I follow the advertised instructions to the letter. I've had no problem with them inserting or attaching. It's just the whole thing after that. If they're only for certain types of flesh or skin I think they need to say that.  I'd settle for a 40% failure rate but currently I'm experiencing 100%.


----------



## mark king

*&%$$$£ all you lot have put the kybosh on my Libre 2 functionality.
Well to be fair I put a new L2 on last night but it failed in my assembly, I could not get the 2 parts to lock in together. I eventually pulled them back apart and inspected them. 
The innards did look a little disturb however I re inserted them successfully this time, clenched my teeth and fired it into my arm.
All ok no pain phew and stated it was making ready so good so far.  After 1 hour had passed I took a reading and it seems to be reading correctly.
NEWS NEWS NEWS >>> This morning i reported this to Abbotts who said they would send out a pre-paid envelope and a replacement sensor.  
In reply to my question that when compared to my L1 usage the L2 has a much higher failure rate he said the L3 was designed to remove all the problems noted so far from both the L1 & L2.
I asked when it was due in the UK and his reply was it was out now in Germany and France but he didn't know when it would be out in the UK.
I asked if it would be a mass replacement but he said it was intended to be a stand alone sensor.  I said this meant in the UK that we all had to argue our case each time for the latest variant.  I can not help you with that he replied.

So there you go a new replacement sensor L3 will be available to fix all the other sensor problems but we all will have to argue our case for it , , , , , , again. 

Good luck everyone.


----------



## HollyerThanthou

I'm still waiting for a response from Abbott's about my lost sensor. ....


----------



## HollyerThanthou

New one finally arriving tomorrow after two weeks. Can I ask do you use a plaster or something to keep them on?


----------



## Kaylz

HollyerThanthou said:


> New one finally arriving tomorrow after two weeks. Can I ask do you use a plaster or something to keep them on?


Some dont need anything but then many of us use different things, micropore tape, cutiderm or tegaderm film patches, kinesiology tape, cohesive bandage  tubular bandage etc and I and a few others have Libre armbands which you can purchase on ebay, it's an adjustable strap with a 3d printed piece of plastic that fits around the sensor xx


----------



## mark king

In the normal run of things I just use the the sensor itself and the only time I've had issues is when I caught my arm on the door frame and ripped it off, oooowwwww.
I do make sure I wipe down the skin where the sensor is going to go with surgical spirit or similar EVERY time I fit one.
You can get it from a Chemist or larger super markets in 500ml bottles for a 5-er but be careful as it is highly flammable.
Another useful thing is "sock tape" this product stretches and sticks to itself so just wrap it around a few times.  It's used to hold sport socks up a Google will find it.  
Another name for a very similar product is "Vetrap" used for bandaging up animals and it comes in multi plain colours or with a printed image of your favourite animal world friend.
As @Kaylz says if your skin does not take to holding plasters on your best bet may be to use the special wrap round straps that are available, again a quick Google will show up all these.

Best


----------



## HollyerThanthou

mark king said:


> If your skin does not take to holding plasters on your best bet may be to use the special wrap round straps that are available, again a quick Google will show up all these.


Thanks for the advice both. I might try a tubigrip. I've had major abdominal surgery and that just had a big plaster on it and it seemed fine. I asked the chemist about it today and she said she hears lots of complaints about libre 2. She said libre 1 seemed better ...


----------



## 69RJB

Been using them for about 3.5 yrs....in late June/July I had failure after failure...4 in a row. I spoke to Abbot and got replacements. I did FOAI the Medicine and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) for information. I couldn't ask specifically about Libre, so asked for information on Flash Glucose sensors. i received the following: 
 The total number of reports received by MHRA in the last 3 months (between the period of April to July 2021) and involving flash glucose sensors was 191 compared to 48 reports received in the same period a year ago (April to July 2020). Overall, 507 reports were received concerning these devices in the last year (July 2020 to July 2021).
So failure rate has risen, I assume the majority are for Libre, due to the number of comments on this fora, and talk to others.
Everyting was fine for me until I changed a sensor this evening....it has failed. The only other Libre I have is another from the same batch. Can't face it now....will try tomorrow evening. Will call Abbott Labs in the morning. When I get a medical device I expect it to work...Very annoyed.


----------



## mark king

Hello @69RJB,  I'm not sure I agree with your interpretation fully.
Like you around the same time I had a sensor failure Abbotts replaced them quickly and no further failures.
The 3 month figures you quote of 191 for 2021 and compared to the same period the year before of 48 may not be down to an increased failure rate but down to the increase in numbers of patients using them. 

I do agree medical devices should work reliably.

Best


----------



## helli

I completely agree with you @mark king
Given the free trial that has been ongoing for some time, I expect there are many more people using the Libre and with no training.
Whilst it is very possible to use the sensor without training, judging by comments on the fora, the lack of training seems to lead to assumptions and misunderstandings which can result in sensors falling off due to misplacement and expectations of greater accuracy.


----------



## mikeyB

Indeed, @helli. I cannot understand how some folk have repeated sensor failures, when I have had none, either with the original Libre or Libre 2. I would be fascinated to find out the error messages, or what kind of failure these events are. I’m amazed that Abbott will keep sending replacement sensors out to the same individuals time after time, to be honest.

I’ll be phoning Abbott today because my reader died yesterday morning. Made a chirp noise which alerted me, pressed the “on” button and nothing happened. Put it on charge, but hours later it still was unresponsive. And still is. Shame really, because the current sensor was started with the reader rather than the phone, so I’ve got no alerts till I change the sensor tomorrow.


----------



## HollyerThanthou

mikeyB said:


> Indeed, @helli. I cannot understand how some folk have repeated sensor failures, when I have had none, either with the original Libre or Libre 2. I would be fascinated to find out the error messages, or what kind of failure these events are. I’m amazed that Abbott will keep sending replacement sensors out to the same individuals time after time, to be honest.
> 
> I’ll be phoning Abbott today because my reader died yesterday morning. Made a chirp noise which alerted me, pressed the “on” button and nothing happened. Put it on charge, but hours later it still was unresponsive. And still is. Shame really, because the current sensor was started with the reader rather than the phone, so I’ve got no alerts till I change the sensor tomorrow.


" I’m amazed that Abbott will keep sending replacement sensors out to the same individuals time after time, to be honest."

Because they are faulty - I think you've rather answered your own question. The instructions are very clear on how to apply the sensor. The failure rate is due to them not being very good. You seem to be using Libre and I think the majority of these comments are about Libre 2? Having spoke to a pharmacist she noted that Libre seemed better than libre 2 and someone on this thread drew similar conclusions. I have finally had one that 'worked'  after a fashion - daily error codes and 'breaks' in 'continuous monitoring'. I'm not sure I'll be paying for it myself. 

My friend who is Type 1 went to see his GP the other day and he said that the Dexcom was much better - more accurate, more consistent and far fewer failed sensors.


----------



## HollyerThanthou

mark king said:


> Hello @69RJB,  I'm not sure I agree with your interpretation fully.
> Like you around the same time I had a sensor failure Abbotts replaced them quickly and no further failures.
> The 3 month figures you quote of 191 for 2021 and compared to the same period the year before of 48 may not be down to an increased failure rate but down to the increase in numbers of patients using them.
> 
> I do agree medical devices should work reliably.
> 
> Best


I would also suspect that not everyone records them. I haven't got a prescription - it would be self funded. For the 3 failures I had Abbott was the mediator in all of that. I'm not sure if they have any responsibility to report that to anyone given they are a private company. I would suspect that they're getting something out of the free trial in looking at that error rate and the problems that are causing it - given that you have to send every failed sensor back. Another colleague who is Type 1 and uses Abbott sensors had one fall off after 5 days the other day and had to go to the chemist to get another one she just put the old one in the bin. I'm not sure what would have been reported to anyone.


----------



## helli

HollyerThanthou said:


> I would suspect that they're getting something out of the free trial in looking at that error rate and the problems that are causing it - given that you have to send every failed sensor back.


You do not need to send every sensor back.
I have reported a few (less than 10 in 3 years) and think about half needed to be returned.

I suspect self funders are more likely to report faulty sensors. However, despite mine being on prescription, I always report faulty ones as they cost the NHS, and hence the taxpayer, money.

It is possible that the sensors don't suit some people's physiology. 
Whilst many say Dexcom are better, when I had the Dexcom trial (two sensors) it was less accurate than Libre for me.


----------



## Robin

helli said:


> . However, despite mine being on prescription, I always report faulty ones as they cost the NHS, and hence the taxpayer, money.


Indeed. I had to sign an agreement with the hospital when I got my Libre on prescription, and one of the conditions was that if I had a sensor failure I would contact Abbott for a replacement, and not just order another on prescription.


----------



## Elizabethe

Derrick Baughan said:


> Has anyone else kept a track of the failure rate of the sensor?
> 
> I have just started with the system. A 'trial' where I was issued a reader and one sensor, at the hospital but by a company rep. Clearly not a trial in the true sense of the word. More a marketing ploy to create demand. Although there is nothing inherently wrong with that. I am now self-funding the sensors until my CCG (Cambridgeshire) approve the use.
> 
> The system is a step change in how I manage my diabetes and I find it extremely useful. However, I now have my 5th sensor on and, after 4 days, it looks like it is failing. I keep getting the error message that glucose readings are not available, try again in a few minutes.
> 
> This will be the 2nd of 5 sensors to fail, a rate of 40%. Tomorrow I ring Abbot up to see what they have to say. Anyone else had a similar experience or am I just the unlucky one to get the Friday afternoon sensors?


I have had no issues with the reader, I find it more difficult to get a reading in my phone. But overall love it


----------



## Annemarie

Derrick Baughan said:


> Has anyone else kept a track of the failure rate of the sensor?
> 
> I have just started with the system. A 'trial' where I was issued a reader and one sensor, at the hospital but by a company rep. Clearly not a trial in the true sense of the word. More a marketing ploy to create demand. Although there is nothing inherently wrong with that. I am now self-funding the sensors until my CCG (Cambridgeshire) approve the use.
> 
> The system is a step change in how I manage my diabetes and I find it extremely useful. However, I now have my 5th sensor on and, after 4 days, it looks like it is failing. I keep getting the error message that glucose readings are not available, try again in a few minutes.
> 
> This will be the 2nd of 5 sensors to fail, a rate of 40%. Tomorrow I ring Abbot up to see what they have to say. Anyone else had a similar experience or am I just the unlucky one to get the Friday afternoon sensors?


I have now used Libre 2 for 3 years, the first 6 months I bought them then went on to the NHS scheme. I couldn’t have been more delighted, I had most of my life back, however, I have had several issues. They include, knocking them off (3) dropping off as they hadn’t stuck properly (3) faulty sensor (2). The knocking off I seem to have reduced by placing them more under my arm than at the side. I had a disaster on holiday when I went through three sensors in a day plus the batteries in my blood testing kit were flat and no sensor or testing kit was available so we had to return home. I now keep one in the car and one in my travel bag. On each occasion Abbots were extremely helpful and replaced them all without hesitation but it’s best to be aware that issues can occur


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## 69RJB

Taking note of the comments. I’ve been using it for around 3.5-4yrs. Self financed until last 6 months. The problem is the sensors. I had 4 fails in a row back in August….all replaced by Abbott. Just had another fail. New sensor put on…at end of 1st hour, tried reading…..reported sensor has ended… replace. Frustrating…..i have one spare sensor…from the same batch. Fingers crossed for tomorrow when i try it. Currently wondering if i would be better trying another sensor system.


----------



## 69RJB

helli said:


> You do not need to send every sensor back.
> I have reported a few (less than 10 in 3 years) and think about half needed to be returned.
> 
> I suspect self funders are more likely to report faulty sensors. However, despite mine being on prescription, I always report faulty ones as they cost the NHS, and hence the taxpayer, money.
> 
> It is possible that the sensors don't suit some people's physiology.
> Whilst many say Dexcom are better, when I had the Dexcom trial (two sensors) it was less accurate than Libre for me.


I disagree…..if it fails, not matter if self funded or prescription, it’s important to report so that a Yellow card is completed for the MHRA. It is a medical device….all failures need to be logged


----------



## helli

69RJB said:


> I disagree…..if it fails, not matter if self funded or prescription, it’s important to report so that a Yellow card is completed for the MHRA. It is a medical device….all failures need to be logged


I think you misunderstood my comments.
I report all failures but they do not always want them returned.


----------



## 69RJB

helli said:


> I think you misunderstood my comments.
> I report all failures but they do not always want them returned.


Apologies I misunderstood.


----------



## 69RJB

mikeyB said:


> Indeed, @helli. I cannot understand how some folk have repeated sensor failures, when I have had none, either with the original Libre or Libre 2. I would be fascinated to find out the error messages, or what kind of failure these events are. I’m amazed that Abbott will keep sending replacement sensors out to the same individuals time after time, to be honest.
> 
> I’ll be phoning Abbott today because my reader died yesterday morning. Made a chirp noise which alerted me, pressed the “on” button and nothing happened. Put it on charge, but hours later it still was unresponsive. And still is. Shame really, because the current sensor was started with the reader rather than the phone, so I’ve got no alerts till I change the sensor tomorrow.


Because they are faulty….error code was ER 3,365


----------



## Elizabethe

I have had no issues with the Libre, I find it really useful for recording all my data, meals , how much insulin and when  inject really benefits my managing my diabetes.


----------



## mikeyB

69RJB said:


> Because they are faulty….error code was ER 3,365


That’s  a code that refers to the filament that’s inserted, possibly due to bending or blockage. It can’t get bent on insertion, so post insertion events must have occurred. If it’s blocked, that’s just bad luck - only a clot could cause that if you happened to hit a blood vessel on insertion, which is bad luck. Neither of these events are due to the unreliability of the sensors, neither are caused by the sensor failing. Far from it, in fact, if it tells you what’s wrong.


----------



## Kaylz

mikeyB said:


> I’m amazed that Abbott will keep sending replacement sensors out to the same individuals time after time, to be honest.


Why? If there's a fault with a sensor it's their duty to replace it, in 2 years of Libre 1 I had 5 replacements, I started Libre 2 in June and yesterday received my 9th replacement out of 14sensors, the issues aren't caused by me so why shouldn't I receive replacements?


----------



## BlueArmy

The last sensor I applied failed, something electronic. They sent me a new one though and I had to return the old for diagnostics. I had 1 fall off after 1 hour due to lack of adhesive and I knocked one off (well annoying). My failure rate is around 25% I think which is a bind as I also self fund. 2 of the 3 failures I have had abbott replace for me.


----------



## mark king

This alleged sensor failure does seem to be a bit hit and miss.
There seems to be 2 camps, either they stick on your arm and work well or they drop dead and fall off.
From memory I never had any L1's fail and so far only 1 L2 gave me issues with the catheter breaking up on attempted assembly prior to attachment.
Abbots did say they had some issues with L2 but L3 had sorted them all out.
Trouble is L3 is not yet available in the UK and nobody seems to know when they might be.
From reading these posts it seems the same people get the falling off problem which to me makes it more likely it's the person not the unit that causes the issues.
If it was the sensor everybody would be seeing it and not individuals.

Let's hope L3 arrives soooooooooooon.


----------



## rebrascora

The fact of the matter is that there are experienced Libre users here on the forum who had occasional problems with the original version, who are now having significant problems with the new version and in general, more people seem to be having problems with the Libre 2 than the original judging by the posts on this forum. 
It may well be that certain pharmacies or areas are supplied by warehouses that have less reliable batches than others which might account for why some people have a higher failure rate than others. 

Someone posted a suggestion a while ago on the forum that the manufacturing process, which is likely the same machines as produce(d) the Libre 1 are starting to wear and the tiny tolerances involved may mean that a very small amount of wear on the machinery might have a significant impact on the insertion/application process.... particularly the filament insertion if the assembly has just become a fraction out of of line with the needle, resulting in it not going in exactly straight. I find this explanation reasonably logical. A similar problem may be occurring with the adhesive layer on the sensor pad. ie some machines churning out sensors without enough adhesive.  

We all know that Abbott were under a lot of pressure a couple of years ago to step up production due to high demand and it may be that older machines have not been updated or serviced as efficiently as they should be, to keep the production at a maximum, resulting in some batches being more likely to be faulty.

Whilst I am not having problems with my original Libre sensors (knocked one or two off in the early days), I am now dreading the change over to Libre 2 in case I also encounter these problems and I quite resent the suggestions in some of the posts here that it is the patient's fault or that there may even be a suggestion of fraud (posting that it is surprising that the same people keep getting faulty sensors replaced, could certainly be viewed in that context) when Abbott are clearly aware that there is a manufacturing problem, otherwise they would not be replacing the sensors so freely. 

It is a mess, but most of us would not want to be without our Libre sensors in order for Abbott to take some time out to put their house in order, which I think they probably need to do. 

I am still waiting for a Libre 2 reader which I ordered online months ago when my consultant said they would be changing me over to Libre 2. I read recently that Abbott are completely out of stock of Libre 2 readers, so again, it seems they haven't anticipated the market well. I just hope I don't get the upgrade to Libre 2 anytime soon as I will have no means of reading them. Every month I breath a sigh of relief that my prescription is still the original, which is crazy, but I don't want the aggravation of having to ring Abbott every week as some members here seems to need to do.


----------



## Nicola calder

Derrick Baughan said:


> Has anyone else kept a track of the failure rate of the sensor?
> 
> I have just started with the system. A 'trial' where I was issued a reader and one sensor, at the hospital but by a company rep. Clearly not a trial in the true sense of the word. More a marketing ploy to create demand. Although there is nothing inherently wrong with that. I am now self-funding the sensors until my CCG (Cambridgeshire) approve the use.
> 
> The system is a step change in how I manage my diabetes and I find it extremely useful. However, I now have my 5th sensor on and, after 4 days, it looks like it is failing. I keep getting the error message that glucose readings are not available, try again in a few minutes.
> 
> This will be the 2nd of 5 sensors to fail, a rate of 40%. Tomorrow I ring Abbot up to see what they have to say. Anyone else had a similar experience or am I just the unlucky one to get the Friday afternoon sensors?


----------



## grovesy

Have had failure to stick with both versions, and they both happen in the height of summer during a heatwave.
I have been using for over 2 years.


----------



## Totalwar

I had three sensor  failures was down to fitting them incorrectly.it is very easy not to fit them correctly you have to be very careful On fitting them.


----------



## rebrascora

Totalwar said:


> I had three sensor  failures down to fitting them *correctly* very easy not to fit them correctly have to be very careful.


Should that read "*incorrectly*"? Otherwise I am struggling to understand what you mean?


----------



## BlueArmy

mark king said:


> This alleged sensor failure does seem to be a bit hit and miss.
> There seems to be 2 camps, either they stick on your arm and work well or they drop dead and fall off.
> From memory I never had any L1's fail and so far only 1 L2 gave me issues with the catheter breaking up on attempted assembly prior to attachment.
> Abbots did say they had some issues with L2 but L3 had sorted them all out.
> Trouble is L3 is not yet available in the UK and nobody seems to know when they might be.
> From reading these posts it seems the same people get the falling off problem which to me makes it more likely it's the person not the unit that causes the issues.
> If it was the sensor everybody would be seeing it and not individuals.
> 
> Let's hope L3 arrives soooooooooooon.


Not necessary - you assume manufacturing processes are 100% repeatable all the time and Abbott's QA procedures are functioning well. Application is pretty damn simple - not sure how you can get that bit wrong, and if you can, then that in and of itself is a design failing at £50 a unit, 10p to manufacture. My last failure was something to do with the electronics in the unit. But to be fair to Abbotts, at least the sent me a postage paid jiffy bag so I could return it to them for inspection.


----------



## rebrascora

The only thing I find with application is that the applicator never comes off cleanly and always needs quite a wriggle to get it free. As a result I always hold the applicator firmly against my arm for about a minute after application before I try to remove it, to give the sensor adhesive the best chance or holding whilst I wriggle the applicator clear. I have never yet had an applicator lift off without a few seconds of anxious wiggling. Not sure if everyone experiences that but so far in over a year of use, I haven't had a single applicator lift off without a struggle.


----------



## Robin

rebrascora said:


> The only thing I find with application is that the applicator never comes off cleanly and always needs quite a wriggle to get it free. As a result I always hold the applicator firmly against my arm for about a minute after application before I try to remove it, to give the sensor adhesive the best chance or holding whilst I wriggle the applicator clear. I have never yet had an applicator lift off without a few seconds of anxious wiggling. Not sure if everyone experiences that but so far in over a year of use, I haven't had a single applicator lift off without a struggle.


Agree, I always hold mine there for a few seconds, then lift it off really slowly and carefully. I sometimes wonder if people click and pull away straight off, and if that doesn’t give the adhesive time to bond.


----------



## DaveB

I must admit I don't understand the level of problems some are having. The problem with them not sticking is due to different skin types. Mine stick 'like glue' and no hint of them falling off. You can't attach them incorrectly with the applicator; just push, click and it's on and a little jiggle and you can remove the applicator. I'm sure some of the problems will be with the underlying flesh which must vary from person to person and how it affects the filament.


----------



## mark king

Hello @rebrascora just a plus from me re the L2 sensor.  I've not had any frequent problems with it and as with the L1 it stays "stuck on me".
The only real difference for me is that I get alarms on me going LO or HI which is very useful particularly for me as I tend to drop through my sleep so I tend to over carb before bed.
Having the alarm allows me to take less carbs at bed time knowing the alarm will call me if i drop to a predetermined setting, 4.0 in my case.
So don't worry about the L2 it's worked fine for me.


----------



## rebrascora

Thanks for that reassurance @mark king


----------



## mark king

Hello @BlueArmy, what I expect is that any production line will have agreed manufacturing tolerances and they will do a predetermined quality check on the finished products.  Then anything outside of that would be spread through the market subject to batch Nos.  What seems to be happening on here is the same people get problems while also the same people DON'T get problems which for me tends to point it more at it being another reason, maybe application or skin type.
Anyway it is always a little difficult trying to discuss finer points on here but certainly would be a great pub discussion point.


----------



## helli

I feel I'm missing out - I've never jiggled when applying my Libre


----------



## rebrascora

helli said:


> I feel I'm missing out - I've never jiggled when applying my Libre


Does that mean your applicator just lifts straight off cleanly without any snagging? Starting to wonder if I am doing something wrong or just very unlucky but I hate the applicator removal part as you can see it trying to lift the sensor and my skin adhered to it of course when I try to lift it away and I have to incorporate a careful wiggling technique to get the applicator free and then gently but firmly press all around the sensor with my fingers to ensure it is well stuck down still. 
I haven't had any issues with my sensor adhering (or getting caught on clothing or knocked off) since I started using an arm strap, so that has definitely sorted any problems on that front but the removal of the applicator is a "heart in mouth" moment every time I apply a new sensor.


----------



## Robin

rebrascora said:


> Does that mean your applicator just lifts straight off cleanly without any snagging? Starting to wonder if I am doing something wrong or just very unlucky but I hate the applicator removal part as you can see it trying to lift the sensor and my skin adhered to it of course when I try to lift it away and I have to incorporate a careful wiggling technique to get the applicator free and then gently but firmly press all around the sensor with my fingers to ensure it is well stuck down still.
> I haven't had any issues with my sensor adhering (or getting caught on clothing or knocked off) since I started using an arm strap, so that has definitely sorted any problems on that front but the removal of the applicator is a "heart in mouth" moment every time I apply a new sensor.


Mine definitely gives a bit of a pull on the sensor as I lift the applicator clear too. Not very hard, but as you say, it lifts the sensor, with the flab on my arm attached a bit before it detaches with a definite bit of reluctance. If I were to let go, the applicator would definitely hang on my arm, not just drop away. 
Maybe I’ve just got flabby bingo wings, but I imagine you to have rock solid muscle!
Perhaps if people pull theirs sharply away straight way they don’t notice the tug, but I never dare do that in case the whole sensor comes off with it.


----------



## helli

rebrascora said:


> Does that mean your applicator just lifts straight off cleanly without any snagging? Starting to wonder if I am doing something wrong or just very unlucky but I hate the applicator removal part as you can see it trying to lift the sensor and my skin adhered to it of course when I try to lift it away and I have to incorporate a careful wiggling technique to get the applicator free and then gently but firmly press all around the sensor with my fingers to ensure it is well stuck down still.


Yes, it does just lift off. 
I've never thought about it before but as a bread maker who kneads by hand and as a climber, I am missing bingo wings (although I don't have the "rock solid muscle" @Robin mentioned).


----------



## rebrascora

Thanks for that @Robin That exactly describes the situation.... apart from the rock solid muscles   I feel better knowing I am not the only one. I definitely feel that this part of the application process puts the adhesive under duress at it's most critical time and could be responsible for some people having adhesion problems or filaments being disturbed... ie the sensor maybe lifts a bit on one side as the applicator is being removed and then gets firmed back into place possibly kinking the filament.

There is no mention of this snagging in the application instructions and I really feel that something needs to be done either to advise people how to cope with it or ideally, the snagging problem overcome. If I just tried to lift the applicator straight off without holding it firmly in place for a minute first and didn't wriggle it I am pretty certain I would have a lot of failures.


----------



## rebrascora

I don't have bingo wings either but the applicator snags on the sensor not on the skin so I am not sure if the tension of the tissue is relevant. The applicator doesn't snag all the way around the sensor either, just in one or two places. The shape of the arm or location where the sensor is placed may be relevant but I have varied that and still find it snags every time. 

I know you @helli have talked about finding a "flat spot" on the arm on us ladies with a smaller circumference of arm, so that the sensor edges are at less risk of lifting and I think maybe the pressure of applying the sensor pushes those edges higher into the applicator than they should go, making them tight or jammed. I also wonder if how you position your arm when you apply it is relevant. I tend to put my hand on the opposite shoulder so that I can see the site easily in the mirror but perhaps this flexes a muscle which causes the problem.

Interesting discussion. Maybe we will solve Abbott's problems for them if we continue!


----------



## mark king

Well all, ref stick the sensor to your body, "if i said you were a beautiful sensor would you stay stuck to me".

1/  I just assemble the sensor and prime it for application.
2/  I then press it quite hard down onto my body and hold it there for a short time.  *Body =* arm - tummy - thigh
3/  After the short time laps I wiggle and ease the injector off the sensor, the sensor does resist this, once off I palm press the sensor down just to make sure.  [it's the injector that wiggles not me. ]
4/  I then activate my reader followed by my Android phone, that's it job done.


----------



## rebrascora

@mark king Pleased to hear you are another wiggler


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## Lucyr

I just pull it straight off with a good pull and no wiggling. The sensor is glued to my arm so no need to worry about it coming off, it always stays stuck.


----------



## nonethewiser

Apply & pull applicator straight off, find adhesive on sensors holds good & strong.


----------



## UGS

helli said:


> I am another long term user with very few failures.
> Some have fallen off due to bad placement (user error) and one has given up the ghost and failed to scan
> I can't comment on the accuracy because I use a different app to read which allows calibration
> I do not use the reader as my phone is an extension of me so always around and I hate carrying extra stuff unnecessarily.


Hi Helli, what app do you use that lets you calibrate your freestyle?


----------



## helli

UGS said:


> Hi Helli, what app do you use that lets you calibrate your freestyle?


I use xDrip. It is only available on Android. It has a sister app xDripIOS for Apple.


----------



## UGS

Kaylz said:


> Some dont need anything but then many of us use different things, micropore tape, cutiderm or tegaderm film patches, kinesiology tape, cohesive bandage  tubular bandage etc and I and a few others have Libre armbands which you can purchase on ebay, it's an adjustable strap with a 3d printed piece of plastic that fits around the sensor xx





helli said:


> I use xDrip. It is only available on Android. It has a sister app xDripIOS for Apple.


Thanks.  I'll check it out.


----------



## RikMajor

I've so far had 2 sensors fail out of 5 - really not great.

- The first time the applicator jammed and refused to press the sensor in, I tried doing it manually but the needle bent and didn't go in properly so that was a write-off.

- The second time, this morning, everything appeared OK, but the sensor then gave me an exceptionally high reading, then after another hour it refused to give any more readings, repeatedly telling me to try it again in 10mn. I replaced the sensor.

This high failure rate seems really poor - I really don't believe I'm doing anything wrong, the readings themselves seem very reliable once the sensor is working correctly, but these initial failures are very frustrating, especially given the high cost of the units.

Have any of you had feedback from Abbott, do they readily provide replacements?

Thank you.


----------



## grovesy

RikMajor said:


> I've so far had 2 sensors fail out of 5 - really not great.
> 
> - The first time the applicator jammed and refused to press the sensor in, I tried doing it manually but the needle bent and didn't go in properly so that was a write-off.
> 
> - The second time, this morning, everything appeared OK, but the sensor then gave me an exceptionally high reading, then after another hour it refused to give any more readings, repeatedly telling me to try it again in 10mn. I replaced the sensor.
> 
> This high failure rate seems really poor - I really don't believe I'm doing anything wrong, the readings themselves seem very reliable once the sensor is working correctly, but these initial failures are very frustrating, especially given the high cost of the units.
> 
> Have any of you had feedback from Abbott, do they readily provide replacements?
> 
> Thank you.


They are usally pretty good at replacing, but in my experience they do not provide any feedback, even if you have send the sensors back.


----------



## trophywench

grovesy said:


> They are usally pretty good at replacing, but in my experience they do not provide any feedback, even if you have send the sensors back.


True !


----------



## Annemarie

I had a disastrous day (involving 3 sensors) after we arrived on holiday. They were unavailable locally so we returned home and I phoned Abbots who were very apologetic and replaced all three even though I had knocked the third one off by accident


----------



## gwool

My daughter was only diagnosed 2 years ago and is still extremely anxious. I found out about the libra sensors,  which she has been using for about 18 months, which we pay for and I am happy to do so, as they really helped with her anxiety. They  seemed to work fine for the first 8 months, but now have become a nightmare. Over the last months, many have either not worked or stopped working after 4-6 days,  I make sure we always have a spare one. However in the last week, one stopped in 4 days, put a new one on on Thursday, today, Saturday, it showed her levels dropped from 10 to 3 in 6 minutes, causing a major anxiety attack, until we did the finger prick test, which showed her levels were actually 9.5. She put a new one on before going out for dinner with friends. This one is not working, so 3 faulty ones in a week, which is totally unacceptable !


----------



## Pattidevans

gwool said:


> My daughter was only diagnosed 2 years ago and is still extremely anxious. I found out about the libra sensors,  which she has been using for about 18 months, which we pay for and I am happy to do so, as they really helped with her anxiety. They  seemed to work fine for the first 8 months, but now have become a nightmare. Over the last months, many have either not worked or stopped working after 4-6 days,  I make sure we always have a spare one. However in the last week, one stopped in 4 days, put a new one on on Thursday, today, Saturday, it showed her levels dropped from 10 to 3 in 6 minutes, causing a major anxiety attack, until we did the finger prick test, which showed her levels were actually 9.5. She put a new one on before going out for dinner with friends. This one is not working, so 3 faulty ones in a week, which is totally unacceptable !


I do hope you have reported all this to Abbott and they have replaced them.


----------



## Annemarie

@gwool so sorry to read the sensors are causing additional anxiety, you do seem to have been unlucky with them. Have you spoken with your hospital diabetic nurse and requested the sensors on the NHS? It doesn’t stop the unreliability but it would take away the added stress. While you’re still paying for them I hope you’re reporting any problems to Abbots


----------



## gwool

We have asked the diabetic nurse, but she said she has not been on them long enough to qualify for them on prescription. We do report them, but it takes a week to get them replaced, so we have to keep searching for chemist that have any for her to use in the mean time. It's the unreliability of these which is so distressing at over £50 each, with Abbots really not caring about the lives they are possibly putting at risk.


----------



## Annemarie

In Buckinghamshire I was paying for them for 6 months, I was told it was sufficient evidence that I used them appropriately and I went on the list to be considered for NHS supply. It took about 4 weeks and from then on they have been on a repeat prescription. Good luck getting yours, mostly they work well and have increased my independence and confidence although it’s advisable to use the back up blood prick tests occasionally.


----------



## Pattidevans

gwool said:


> We have asked the diabetic nurse, but she said she has not been on them long enough to qualify for them on prescription. We do report them, but it takes a week to get them replaced, so we have to keep searching for chemist that have any for her to use in the mean time. It's the unreliability of these which is so distressing at over £50 each, with Abbots really not caring about the lives they are possibly putting at risk.


Hi @gwool  If you are paying over £50 you are being charged too much.  Firstly you shouldn’t be paying VAT, the pharmacy should have a form for you to say that as a diabetic person is uding them then you are exempt.  Have you tried ordering them direct from Abbott’s website?  You can declare exemption there during the ordering process.


----------



## Annemarie

When I did pay I found Azda was the cheapest and they helped with the VAT exemption form


----------



## Kaylz

gwool said:


> We have asked the diabetic nurse, but she said she has not been on them long enough to qualify for them on prescription. We do report them, but it takes a week to get them replaced, so we have to keep searching for chemist that have any for her to use in the mean time. It's the unreliability of these which is so distressing at over £50 each, with Abbots really not caring about the lives they are possibly putting at risk.


Self funding them isn't part of the criteria, if I were you I'd have a look at the criteria and see what your daughter meets already, it doesn't have to be all of them but being on intensive insulin therapy is one point, testing 8+ times a day via finger prick is another and present that to the diabetic nurse, I didn't have to self fund at all (I would never have been able to afford it) and I obtained them on prescription xx


----------



## Glynis

I wonder if this is to do with freestyle2? I have just changed over to that, about 5 weeks ago, and have a had more problems, with 2 sensors out of 6 simply stopping working after 9-10 days, one not starting up at all, and one dropping off after a week. I've also had the problem of the sensor saying "try again in 10 mins" for about an hour. I wonder if the new sensors are not as water resistant? I never swim for more than 25 mins and that did not cause a problem with freeestyle 1 - its advertised as ok in water for half an hour.  I hope I don't have to go back to freestyle 1 as the alarms are really useful. I'm hypo-aware but the alarm sounds a little before I feel the hypo, which is incredibly helpful. It is also helpful over going high, which I am less likely to notice in the short term. I will phone Abbott again in the morning, as this latest one has just given up the ghost with no warning, after 10 days.


----------



## Glynis

Kaylz said:


> Self funding them isn't part of the criteria, if I were you I'd have a look at the criteria and see what your daughter meets already, it doesn't have to be all of them but being on intensive insulin therapy is one point, testing 8+ times a day via finger prick is another and present that to the diabetic nurse, I didn't have to self fund at all (I would never have been able to afford it) and I obtained them on prescription xx


It depends where you live. In Cornwall (which was late to prescribe freestyle libre) there were a number of criteria about need, and prioritisation of children, but then it was also prescribed for people who had self funded when Cornwall NHS wasn't funding. Not all of whom were rich - some just very keen to improve control.


----------



## HollyerThanthou

I tried the Freestyle Libre 2 on a free trial. So one free sensor. I also purchased one. I use it for about 2 weeks a month to try and improve control and note spike foods for me as I'm pre-diabetic and have EPI (due to damage caused during cancer treatment). Creon which I take for the EPI can cause deregulation of glucose levels. Anyway - I've not purchased another Libre since the original two 5 months ago. They usually only last a week. They fall off. I've had error messages. They've failed within 24 hours. etc. I've had them fail within the hour. The one I have on now which is a replacement for the last one that fell off on the 8th day. Is recording my blood sugar on average around 7.2 where as my last one said my average was 5.9. With this one I checked my blood and it was routinely and regularly over 2 days 0.5 out. I rang Abbott and they said this was 'fine' as they accepted a difference between blood monitoring and the cgm of 2.0. I said this seemed rather a lot and seemed to make the product kind of useless. He said 'We do warn people not to rely on them.' Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Colour me flabbergasted.


----------



## Kaylz

@HollyerThanthou BG monitors aren't 100% accurate either and have a 15-20%  allowed error margin so 0.5mmol between a BG meter and Libre sensor is absolutely nothing especially when they are measuring different fluids


----------



## rebrascora

0.5mmol difference is pretty standard and totally acceptable. I think many people assume that because BG meters and Libre give a reading with a decimal place, that they are accurate to that level and they most definitely are not so it may be that your perception of what is possible is unreasonable. 
I can manage using Libre readings to calculate my insulin doses if it is up to 2 whole mmols out compared to finger prick (not ideal at that level but still manageable) but anything beyond that isn't reliable enough. To be fair it is designed more to help people with Type 1 diabetes who have more significant swings of BG levels due to insulin usage to manage their diabetes, rather than someone who is just "at risk of diabetes" who will have much more minimal swings and no risk of going too low.


----------



## HollyerThanthou

I think 0.5 is fine but 2.0 isn't and also 'you can't rely on them' is a bit bonkers given that is exactly what people do. Interestingly the Libre did record me having 3 incidences of night time hypoglycemia. But now I just think those were probably errors in the sensor. Especially as Abbott note - I can't rely on it. 

I'm also not 'just at risk' of diabetes. I'm at risk of diabetes.


----------



## Glynis

HollyerThanthou said:


> I think 0.5 is fine but 2.0 isn't and also 'you can't rely on them' is a bit bonkers given that is exactly what people do. Interestingly the Libre did record me having 3 incidences of night time hypoglycemia. But now I just think those were probably errors in the sensor. Especially as Abbott note - I can't rely on it.
> 
> I'm also not 'just at risk' of diabetes. I'm at risk of diabetes.


Mine incorrectly records night time hypos if I sleep with my weight on it - ie on my left arm if that's where I've put the sensor. I've learned to turn over if that happens!
We can't rely on anything 100% - I always carry the blood testing gear just in case. My dad had it much worse - there was no  blood testing until he'd been diabetic (type1) for about 15 years, and he had to p ay himslef for his first meter, which caused a big row at home as Mum wanted a new washing machine.....


----------



## rebrascora

HollyerThanthou said:


> I think 0.5 is fine but 2.0 isn't and also 'you can't rely on them' is a bit bonkers given that is exactly what people do. Interestingly the Libre did record me having 3 incidences of night time hypoglycemia. But now I just think those were probably errors in the sensor. Especially as Abbott note - I can't rely on it.
> 
> I'm also not 'just at risk' of diabetes. I'm at risk of diabetes.


Hypos during the night can be caused by lying on the sensor. It is referred to as a compression low. It is one of the reasons why you are advised to double check low readings with a finger prick. 
I agree that reliability, with the Libre 2 particularly, has been a problem for some people but those of use whose lives depend upon the use of insulin and correct dosing still find them a huge advantage over finger pricking but there are times when that is still necessary. 
In your situation, I think it may not be the best tool for the job as you are looking at smaller tolerances when you are just at risk of diabetes. So the difference in a rise of 2 and 3 mmols after a meal is significant whereas for a Type 1 like myself we are trying to keep my levels mostly between 3.9 and 10 but accept that they will spike up higher occasionally despite our best efforts, because timing and absorption of injected insulin is much different to the insulin your pancreas naturally produces. If I get the timing a bit wrong 30g of carbs can spike me up to 14 or 15 and then bring me back down. Obviously the Libre will show that quite clearly even it is actually reading 16 or 19. It tells me I injected my insulin too late and that is what I am interested in knowing, so I can adjust it better next time. It doesn't matter too much to me if that reading is 2 or 3 mmols out, it is still way too high, but if i need to inject insulin to correct it and it is too far out then I might inject too much insulin and end up hypo, which is why high and low readings should be double checked.


----------



## DouglasXKR

HollyerThanthou said:


> I think 0.5 is fine but 2.0 isn't and also 'you can't rely on them' is a bit bonkers given that is exactly what people do. Interestingly the Libre did record me having 3 incidences of night time hypoglycemia. But now I just think those were probably errors in the sensor. *Especially as Abbott note - I can't rely on it.*


Here is a warning from Abbot. What this Warning appears to be saying is that it is pretty useless as an absolute measure of glucose values but might be useful as a relative measure. As far as I can see the Libre Pro is identical to the Libre2 but targeted at professional, clinical, use.

IMPORTANT: The device may inaccurately indicate hypoglycemia. The results of the clinical study conducted for this device showed that 40% of the time when the device indicated that user sensor glucose values were at or below 60 mg/dL, user glucose values were actually in the range of 81-160 mg/dL.
Therefore, interpretation of the FreeStyle Libre Pro Flash Glucose Monitoring System readings should only be based on the trends and patterns analyzed through time using the reports available per the intended use.


----------



## helli

Glynis said:


> Mine incorrectly records night time hypos if I sleep with my weight on it - ie on my left arm if that's where I've put the sensor. I've learned to turn over if that happens!


This is not just a Libre problem. All CGMs experience compression lows.
Unfortunately, Abbott and Dexcom and others have not found a way around physics.
Have you tried placing the sensor somewhere you won't lie on it?


----------



## mikeyB

Amity Island said:


> Can I ask a question.
> 
> Can the libre sensors still be used when past their best before date? Will they still work with the reader?


I assume that Abbott have tested their products beyond the suggested "best before" date, but can't guarantee that they will function correctly. I suspect that the real best before date could be extended, but they won't take that commercial risk. There won't be a cut-off date when they refuse to work, though.


----------



## helli

I just received a marketing email from Abbott about the Libre. I see they have caveated their "Frees you up from finger pricks" and "Check your glucose any time anywhere" with a load of footnotes which I hadn't noticed previously (they may have been there in the past and I wasn't observant): 

†Finger pricks are required if readings do not match symptoms or expectations
‡60-minute warm-up required when applying the sensor
₸Sensor is water resistant in up to 1 meter (3 feet) of water. Do not immerse longer than 30 minutes. Not to be used above 10,000 feet


----------



## AnnSebastian

HollyerThanthou said:


> I tried the Freestyle Libre 2 on a free trial. So one free sensor. I also purchased one. I use it for about 2 weeks a month to try and improve control and note spike foods for me as I'm pre-diabetic and have EPI (due to damage caused during cancer treatment). Creon which I take for the EPI can cause deregulation of glucose levels. Anyway - I've not purchased another Libre since the original two 5 months ago. They usually only last a week. They fall off. I've had error messages. They've failed within 24 hours. etc. I've had them fail within the hour. The one I have on now which is a replacement for the last one that fell off on the 8th day. Is recording my blood sugar on average around 7.2 where as my last one said my average was 5.9. With this one I checked my blood and it was routinely and regularly over 2 days 0.5 out. I rang Abbott and they said this was 'fine' as they accepted a difference between blood monitoring and the cgm of 2.0. I said this seemed rather a lot and seemed to make the product kind of useless. He said 'We do warn people not to rely on them.' Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Colour me flabbergasted.




For me the LibreFreestyle is life changing. But that’s not to say I haven’t had problems with the sensors. My third one didn’t work. I had to explain and give dates and ID numbers over the phone to a polish call centre. (Very helpful guy but still a bit of an accent communication problem. )

Three months further on and I have two more dud sensors. When I removed one, the black needle / thread was bent sideways - obviously hadn’t penetrated. I’ve been putting off ‘reporting’ it to get a refund because the first time was so stressful. I had another that stopped 3 days early - but I wore it in the bath so that could have been why. Now I buy waterproof covers. 

At £50 a shot it’s not something to just write off. 

Saying that - it’s still a brilliant piece of technology but from my personal experience the customer services could really use improvement.


----------



## Pattidevans

I agree that it is sometimes difficult to understand what they are saying.  I usually say "look I am a little bit deaf, could you speak slowly please" which helps.  I am not deaf by the way... but it's better than insulting their English.  I've  always fund them most helpful despite the odd accents sometimes (the ccent's aren't bad all the time).


----------



## rebrascora

AnnSebastian said:


> For me the LibreFreestyle is life changing. But that’s not to say I haven’t had problems with the sensors. My third one didn’t work. I had to explain and give dates and ID numbers over the phone to a polish call centre. (Very helpful guy but still a bit of an accent communication problem. )
> 
> Three months further on and I have two more dud sensors. When I removed one, the black needle / thread was bent sideways - obviously hadn’t penetrated. I’ve been putting off ‘reporting’ it to get a refund because the first time was so stressful. I had another that stopped 3 days early - but I wore it in the bath so that could have been why. Now I buy waterproof covers.
> 
> At £50 a shot it’s not something to just write off.
> 
> Saying that - it’s still a brilliant piece of technology but from my personal experience the customer services could really use improvement.


Not sure if you are aware Ann but there is now an online reporting system for faulty Libres which you may find easier to use. I haven't used it myself but @Lucyr and I think @Bruce Stephens have both reported finding it much easier than phoning. Hopefully one of them can provide a link for you. 

The sensors are waterproof, but a good soak in a nice hot bath can cause the adhesive to warm up and if you were then to catch it with a sponge or towel or I use exfoliating gloves in the shower, it is easy to catch the edge and lift it off when the adhesive is warm, especially if you can't see it and forget which arm it is on. I now wear an elastic arm strap which has a 3D printed watch face which goes over the Libre and gives it extra protection but also acts as a visible reminder to me of which arm the sensor is on and to be extra careful particularly when washing and drying. I haven't lost a Libre since I started using this strap. It pings sometimes when I catch it on a bra strap but the strap takes the hit and the sensor is fine. For me it was a really worthwhile investment to protect my Libre.


----------



## AnnSebastian

rebrascora said:


> Not sure if you are aware Ann but there is now an online reporting system for faulty Libres which you may find easier to use. I haven't used it myself but @Lucyr and I think @Bruce Stephens have both reported finding it much easier than phoning. Hopefully one of them can provide a link for you.
> 
> The sensors are waterproof, but a good soak in a nice hot bath can cause the adhesive to warm up and if you were then to catch it with a sponge or towel or I use exfoliating gloves in the shower, it is easy to catch the edge and lift it off when the adhesive is warm, especially if you can't see it and forget which arm it is on. I now wear an elastic arm strap which has a 3D printed watch face which goes over the Libre and gives it extra protection but also acts as a visible reminder to me of which arm the sensor is on and to be extra careful particularly when washing and drying. I haven't lost a Libre since I started using this strap. It pings sometimes when I catch it on a bra strap but the strap takes the hit and the sensor is fine. For me it was a really worthwhile investment to protect my Libre.



I tried a strap but it didn’t feel very secure. I’ve bought a pack of cheap  transparent waterproof patches that feel a little better. I’ll still keep it out of water if possible though. 

And I keep it on my right arm but move it to a slightly different place each time.


----------



## helli

AnnSebastian said:


> I tried a strap but it didn’t feel very secure. I’ve bought a pack of cheap  transparent waterproof patches that feel a little better. I’ll still keep it out of water if possible though.
> 
> And I keep it on my right arm but move it to a slightly different place each time.


I find it important for me to change arms with each sensor. Not only does it give an arm a rest (and allow me to maintain my dexterity), it also means I can have one sensor "bedding in" on the last two days of my current sensor. For me, this makes the sensors more reliable from the start of activation. 
That said, it takes me a day to stop scanning an "empty" arm.


----------



## Bruce Stephens

rebrascora said:


> I haven't used it myself but @Lucyr and I think @Bruce Stephens have both reported finding it much easier than phoning.


I haven't used it either. It's https://www.freestylelibre.co.uk/libre/help/sensor-support-form.html


----------



## sololite

Sorry to hear you are having problems. I am sure Abbot will do the right thing for you. They have replaced 2 for me over last 3 years with no quibble. My experience has been that only one truly dropped off by itself probably due to swimming in sea a lot or hot weather. The other two I pinged off on doors or getting dressed. I recommend running a razor over the area before you put it on. Good luck and regards, Chris


----------



## Lucyr

Bruce Stephens said:


> I haven't used it either. It's https://www.freestylelibre.co.uk/libre/help/sensor-support-form.html


Yes that’s the link I’ve used. I usually just get an email back advising of a replacement being dispatched


----------



## Wolder

Today I applied my third Libre 2 sensor since my diagnosis in December. The first sensor failed within eight hours of application, and the second, which I replaced today, began to consistently present inaccurately high readings (eg. readings were 10.6mmol/L, 12.8mmol/L, 13.5mmol/L, 13.7mmol/L and 14.0mmol/L on Libre 2, but were 6.0mmol/L, 5.8mmol/L, 5.8mmol/L, 5.5mmol/L and 6.2mmol/L respectively on my BG monitor) after day eleven.

I called Abbott earlier today to report the issue and request a replacement. The gentleman I spoke to told me that whilst he would agree to send me a replacement, the discrepancies listed in above weren't significant enough to justify a replacement, so if I called to report a similar issue in the future I shouldn't expect to receive one. I think this is a potentially very dangerous assertion. When I asked him how large the discrepancy between the sensor and my BG monitor would have to be to justify a replacement he told me that he didn't "have the numbers" in front of him, leaving me feeling a little fobbed off. I hope it's third time lucky - we'll see if this sensor lasts the full fourteen days without any major issues.


----------



## AnnSebastian

Derrick Baughan said:


> Has anyone else kept a track of the failure rate of the sensor?
> 
> I have just started with the system. A 'trial' where I was issued a reader and one sensor, at the hospital but by a company rep. Clearly not a trial in the true sense of the word. More a marketing ploy to create demand. Although there is nothing inherently wrong with that. I am now self-funding the sensors until my CCG (Cambridgeshire) approve the use.
> 
> The system is a step change in how I manage my diabetes and I find it extremely useful. However, I now have my 5th sensor on and, after 4 days, it looks like it is failing. I keep getting the error message that glucose readings are not available, try again in a few minutes.
> 
> This will be the 2nd of 5 sensors to fail, a rate of 40%. Tomorrow I ring Abbot up to see what they have to say. Anyone else had a similar experience or am I just the unlucky one to get the Friday afternoon sensors?



I’ve started 7 so far. Three failed.


----------



## Paulbreen

Derrick Baughan said:


> Has anyone else kept a track of the failure rate of the sensor?
> 
> I have just started with the system. A 'trial' where I was issued a reader and one sensor, at the hospital but by a company rep. Clearly not a trial in the true sense of the word. More a marketing ploy to create demand. Although there is nothing inherently wrong with that. I am now self-funding the sensors until my CCG (Cambridgeshire) approve the use.
> 
> The system is a step change in how I manage my diabetes and I find it extremely useful. However, I now have my 5th sensor on and, after 4 days, it looks like it is failing. I keep getting the error message that glucose readings are not available, try again in a few minutes.
> 
> This will be the 2nd of 5 sensors to fail, a rate of 40%. Tomorrow I ring Abbot up to see what they have to say. Anyone else had a similar experience or am I just the unlucky one to get the Friday afternoon sensors?


Like Mike said, I have been using them since 2015 and have had very few failures, that said it seems that from the postings I have seen on here some people just dont get on with them, the message you are seeing is most likely there is a quick movement in your BG either up or down, dont sweat it and stress yourself, a finger prick would be a good way to go if your worried and give the Libre another go in half an hour.
Calculating an average from 2 sensors is not going to give you real reflection I have used roughly 170 and my failure rate comes out about 0.11 from the 20 I have had an issue with, also I have used Libre 1, Libre 2 and now I'm using Libre 3 so I have good experience from them all.
best of luck getting to grips with them and dont give up too soon


----------



## rayray119

Glad I wasn't the only one. I'm on a break at the moment.


----------



## AnnSebastian

Wolder said:


> Today I applied my third Libre 2 sensor since my diagnosis in December. The first sensor failed within eight hours of application, and the second, which I replaced today, began to consistently present inaccurately high readings (eg. readings were 10.6mmol/L, 12.8mmol/L, 13.5mmol/L, 13.7mmol/L and 14.0mmol/L on Libre 2, but were 6.0mmol/L, 5.8mmol/L, 5.8mmol/L, 5.5mmol/L and 6.2mmol/L respectively on my BG monitor) after day eleven.
> 
> I called Abbott earlier today to report the issue and request a replacement. The gentleman I spoke to told me that whilst he would agree to send me a replacement, the discrepancies listed in above weren't significant enough to justify a replacement, so if I called to report a similar issue in the future I shouldn't expect to receive one. I think this is a potentially very dangerous assertion. When I asked him how large the discrepancy between the sensor and my BG monitor would have to be to justify a replacement he told me that he didn't "have the numbers" in front of him, leaving me feeling a little fobbed off. I hope it's third time lucky - we'll see if this sensor lasts the full fourteen days without any major issues.



When it works - the Libre Freestyle is absolutely brilliant - I’d even say ‘life-changing’.  When it doesn’t - it’s totally demoralising - well it is for me anyway. LibreFreestyle customer services could certainly use some ‘streamlining’   People with conditions like diabetes often feel particularly vulnerable and need to trust the agencies they rely on to survive. 

There is global competition from different corporations to become ‘market leaders’ of this type of device. If there is one company prepared to prioritise ‘customer services’ for me at least? I’d be their biggest fan.


----------



## rebrascora

To me, Abbott have very good customer services and I am not generally comfortable talking on the phone, but operators have always been reasonably good at making themselves understood and understanding me even when English has not appeared to be their first language. 
As has been pointed out @AnnSebastian, there is an online option for reporting faulty sensors if you are having difficulty with the telephone service for whatever reason.

Whilst I am finding the original model pretty reliable, I do understand that some people seem to be having problems with the Libre 2, so I can accept that Abbott need to up their game on improving the product's reliability but I think most people here on the forum find their customer services and replacement policy very good.


----------



## Bruce Stephens

rebrascora said:


> Whilst I am finding the original model pretty reliable, I do understand that some people seem to be having problems with the Libre 2


For what little it's worth, Libre 2 seems to be working fine for me. I'm noticing the wait and try again in 10 minutes messages much more often, but I think that's more the change in algorithm than anything to do with the sensors.


----------



## AnnSebastian

AnnSebastian said:


> When it works - the Libre Freestyle is absolutely brilliant - I’d even say ‘life-changing’.  When it doesn’t - it’s totally demoralising - well it is for me anyway. LibreFreestyle customer services could certainly use some ‘streamlining’   People with conditions like diabetes often feel particularly vulnerable and need to trust the agencies they rely on to survive.
> 
> There is global competition from different corporations to become ‘market leaders’ of this type of device. If there is one company prepared to prioritise ‘customer services’ for me at least? I’d be their biggest fan.



Bottom line as far as I’m concerned is - inform yourself of all the options as best you can - check out opinions of different ‘experts’ then use the best information you’ve found to make your own choices. 

As you learn more, you may choose differently and take different paths. 
All I can say is - using the Libre ‘free sample’ gave me the option to ‘change my life’ if I chose to take it - just by giving me enough information to be able to ‘take back control’. But we’re all different. 

But don’t be dazzled by global corporations - great if they offer innovative ways to manage medical conditions - but still hold them to account.


----------



## grovesy

Bruce Stephens said:


> For what little it's worth, Libre 2 seems to be working fine for me. I'm noticing the wait and try again in 10 minutes messages much more often, but I think that's more the change in algorithm than anything to do with the sensors.


I sometimes have this problem too! It mostly happens when I check after my daily walk.


----------



## AnnSebastian

Paulbreen said:


> Like Mike said, I have been using them since 2015 and have had very few failures, that said it seems that from the postings I have seen on here some people just dont get on with them, the message you are seeing is most likely there is a quick movement in your BG either up or down, dont sweat it and stress yourself, a finger prick would be a good way to go if your worried and give the Libre another go in half an hour.
> Calculating an average from 2 sensors is not going to give you real reflection I have used roughly 170 and my failure rate comes out about 0.11 from the 20 I have had an issue with, also I have used Libre 1, Libre 2 and now I'm using Libre 3 so I have good experience from them all.
> best of luck getting to grips with them and dont give up too soon



They are not that easy to apply. 
If you make a mistake, which can happen, you’re advised to remove the sensor and apply another. 
At £50.


----------



## Paulbreen

AnnSebastian said:


> They are not that easy to apply.
> If you make a mistake, which can happen, you’re advised to remove the sensor and apply another.
> At £50.


I would say for some people that would be an issue, I used to install them on the recommended site on the back of my arm and this was always a little difficult, for the last 3 or 4 years I put them on the side of my chest just under my arm, reading are always pretty much the same as an finger prick so I dont worry too much about accuracy.


----------



## rebrascora

I don't find it difficult at all to install them. I put my hand of the arm I am applying it to, on my opposite shoulder, reach underneath that bent elbow with my other hand with the applicator, look in the mirror to see where I want it (avoiding moles etc) and apply it.


----------



## MikeS

dante01 said:


> Interesting that you mention prescriptions. My GP's surgury sent me a circular recently that specificallyy addressed the Libre and made it clear that if one fails then you can contact Abbott directly to get a replacement. Is this a result of more people now being able to get them on prescription and contacting their GP when a sensor fails?
> 
> I'd not previously discussed it with my GP and already knew that I'd be able to get replacements directly from Abbott. Diabetic Nurses at clinics  seem to go out of their way to tell patients this if and when discussing Libre sensors.


That’s obvious? Why would a doctor or nurse want to waste time dealing with a faulty device you are purchasing direct from the device manufacturer?


----------



## rebrascora

MikeS said:


> That’s obvious? Why would a doctor or nurse want to waste time dealing with a faulty device you are purchasing direct from the device manufacturer?


Many people have them on prescription and *if you don't t*hen you should ask about it because the new NICE guidelines should enable all Type 1s who will benefit from Libre to get it on prescription. 
Health Care Professionals have far too much to do without chasing up Abbott about faulty sensors and Abbott need to speak to the patient to get appropriate data from them so it really isn't a job for HCPs even when getting them on prescription.


----------



## Kaylz

MikeS said:


> That’s obvious? Why would a doctor or nurse want to waste time dealing with a faulty device you are purchasing direct from the device manufacturer?


The poster wasn't buying direct from the manufacturer they were receiving it on prescription and many that get it on prescription aren't aware Abbott need contacted for replacements not the GP


----------



## rayray119

Paulbreen said:


> I would say for some people that would be an issue, I used to install them on the recommended site on the back of my arm and this was always a little difficult, for the last 3 or 4 years I put them on the side of my chest just under my arm, reading are always pretty much the same as an finger prick so I dont worry too much about accuracy.


i know of other people that have found them difficult to apply too it seems that some people find it really easy compared to other sensors some the other way round.


----------



## Loobyloo

I have never had trouble applying or getting them to stay on even in the shower. What i have trouble with is accuracy or rather lack of. I am now on 4th sensor and never had an accurate one. The last was worst reading 87% hypos when in fact i was 7-8mmols on meter. I have had up to 5 mmols difference on the readings compared to my Gluco Navii meter. 
Abbott customer services are good at replacing (prob very used to it) but to be quite honest i can't be bothered replacing any more. Good idea and love not having to jab but i will perhaps try again in future if something more accurate comes along. I know some people get on very well with them. i for some reason don't.


----------



## Annemarie

I just had a disastrous day with 5 Libre sensors that either wouldn’t stick, fell off or kept repeating try again in 60 minutes. abbots are sending replacements


----------



## nonethewiser

Annemarie said:


> I just had a disastrous day with 5 Libre sensors that either wouldn’t stick, fell off or kept repeating try again in 60 minutes. abbots are sending replacements



Patience of a saint, would have given up after 3.

Be interesting to know why some peeps have nothing but trouble with device where as others dont, self included, most peculiar mama as one famous Beattle once said.


----------



## Annemarie

I’ve had Libre Sensors for 4 years, mostly I sing their praises and still feel they gave me part of my independence back, however, there have been a few issues (including me falling into a doorway and knocking it off). A friend’s husband was on the research team nearly 30 years ago so a lot of work went into their production,
Which Beatle was it?


----------



## helli

I would be looking at myself if 5 fell off in one day, especially when so many people have no problems
Do I have stability problems which need to be investigated if I knock them off? 
Is my skin greasy so should I be using a different soap?
Was my arm completely dry when the sensor was applied?
Do I have overly hairy arms which need to be shaved?

I appreciate there are times when there are faults but my nature is to consider my own faults before others' when something keeps going wrong for me but not most other people. 

(Personally, I have been using Libre for a number of years and only knocked one off. Once I taught myself to be careful when dressing, they seem to stick like limpets to my arm.)


----------



## helli

rebrascora said:


> Many people have them on prescription and *if you don't t*hen you should ask about it because the new NICE guidelines should enable all Type 1s who will benefit from Libre to get it on prescription.
> Health Care Professionals have far too much to do without chasing up Abbott about faulty sensors and Abbott need to speak to the patient to get appropriate data from them so it really isn't a job for HCPs even when getting them on prescription.


Please bear in mind that the new guidelines you mention are *draft guidelines* which have not yet been published.
I believe they are due to be ratified at the end of this month but, history has shown us  different CCGs interpret NICE guidelines differently, money for something like this does not grow on trees and additional technology is only useful if people know how to use it so training will be required. It will take some time for CGMs (or LIbre) to be available for more people with Type 1 when these guidelines are published.

Unfortunately, mainstream media has got hold of this story and reporting it as if on 1st April everyone with Type 1 will  using CGMs.

But that should not stop us encouraging someone with Type 1 to request to have Libre on prescription.


----------



## trophywench

Having reported a failure this afternoon which they are going to replace so that's fine, I happily agreed to take part in the telephone feedback.  Give a score between 1 and 9 - gave all of em a 9, but their system could not recognise me saying nine!


----------



## Kaylz

trophywench said:


> Having reported a failure this afternoon which they are going to replace so that's fine, I happily agreed to take part in the telephone feedback.  Give a score between 1 and 9 - gave all of em a 9, but their system could not recognise me saying nine!


I've never had the option to say it, always to press the number on the keypad, I can tell you after my issues they do not get 9's across the board


----------



## trophywench

Well I did wonder when it didn't work but I assure you I did not hear that instruction until the very end thing, when I was told to either press 1 or 2 on my keypad for either yes or no.   Mind you, in the prerecorded preamble when I first got through on the phone, it was very stilted with gaps in the message.

Shan't be losing any sleep about it anyway.


----------



## Proud to be erratic

Kaylz said:


> I've never had the option to say it, always to press the number on the keypad, I can tell you after my issues they do not get 9's across the board


Nor mine. Also had highish failure rate. I always give a 9 to the last question, how well was my problem managed, otherwise 4 out of 9 to things like 'how satisfied was I with the product' and for the following up 'say in your own words why .... ' I say poor reliability of an otherwise  potentially great product. 

I'd like to think they get the spirit of that message, but alas I think Abbott are in the sensor business for the profit, without much regard for what patient's actually require. Has anyone seen any requests for feedback to Abbott on their product? It seems to me that L2 was  an opportunity to provide a reader commensurate with the technology of the last 10 years, rather than that of the early Nokia phones from 20+ years ago. 

I started to track down the NHS manager who had the responsibility for this contract  thinking (perhaps naively) that there would be someone who could be nudged to take on more oversight and responsibility. Then my son-in-law drew my attention to the £ millions that the NHS was paying Abbott every month since the start of Covid for "PPE", enough per month to cover the entire Libre provision for a year at the most generous estimate of price and quantities. His judgement was that I'd be wasting my time, a point I (reluctantly) agree with; far bigger money flowing to get any sense of responsibility for this 'trickle'.


----------



## Kaylz

Proud to be erratic said:


> Nor mine. Also had highish failure rate. I always give a 9 to the last question, how well was my problem managed, otherwise 4 out of 9 to things like 'how satisfied was I with the product' and for the following up 'say in your own words why .... ' I say poor reliability of an otherwise potentially great product.


I'm about to report my 20th or 21st sensor out of 25 or 26, it failed last Friday after giving the check again in 10 minutes message for 5 hours, it didn't give a reading at all as it had only been applied that day but I didn't report it then as I'd already reported one the previous day for the same issue and I'm fed up contacting them to be honest, levels were stable throughout so that wasn't the issue, I had 2 years relatively problem free on Libre 1 so it isn't user error lol, my scoring has decreased the more sensors I report  but yes the last always get a 9 xx


----------



## Loobyloo

Kaylz said:


> I'm about to report my 20th or 21st sensor out of 25 or 26, it failed last Friday after giving the check again in 10 minutes message for 5 hours, it didn't give a reading at all as it had only been applied that day but I didn't report it then as I'd already reported one the previous day for the same issue and I'm fed up contacting them to be honest, levels were stable throughout so that wasn't the issue, I had 2 years relatively problem free on Libre 1 so it isn't user error lol, my scoring has decreased the more sensors I report  but yes the last always get a 9 xx


Gosh that's horrendous failure rate that cant be just bad luck. Yes i am sure mine's not user error and wonder why so many people say they have no problems. Maybe its the Libre 2 that has more problems and they are using original Libre. Trust pilot reviews are dreadful so i know we are not the only ones.


----------



## helli

Loobyloo said:


> wonder why so many people say they have no problems. Maybe its the Libre 2 that has more problems and they are using original Libre.


Nope. I have less problems with Libre 2 than I did with the original Libre.
I wish I could share my “secret” with those like you and @Kaylz who have so many problems.


----------



## Paulbreen

rayray119 said:


> i know of other people that have found them difficult to apply too it seems that some people find it really easy compared to other sensors some the other way round.


Rayray, I would say the Libre 3 are much easier to apply as they are much smaller so there is more room on your arm to get a good spot


----------



## Caterham Driver

I find this interesting. I started using Libre 2 last July and have had no problems until recently (last 2 weeks) when I had one fail after 4 days and the second immediately after the 1 hour set up time. Having said that, Abbott were extremely helpful when I phoned them and were able to carry out some sensor diagnosis from the information on my phone.  In both cases it was a sensor problem and they replaced them straight away and sent me a pre-paid package to return the last one. Seems like a batch problem to me.


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## RWP

Hello everyone! I'm a new forum member and this is my first post. Very interesting thread here, which I found during a Google search on this topic to possibly explain why the Libre family of BG sensors no longer work for me. Although I reside on the other side of the pond, there are plenty of people here in the USA who use these products as well. This is the first user forum I've found for openly and honestly discussing this product, and I'm very happy to have found it. Thank you to all the people involved in this site's creation, continuation, and information!

I've been a type-2 diabetic for about 16 years now and began using the Freestyle Libre system late in 2019 -- the Libre 14-day was the only one available at that time. It was never very accurate -- when it worked at all -- but at least I could compare each new sensor with my more accurate One-Touch Verio test strip type BG meter for a good idea of what amount of offset I needed to add or subtract from the Libre's reading to have reasonable confidence in its accuracy. It was so nice to have the Libre system to keep tabs on my BG when I was away from home, by not having to sit down somewhere in public to do the cumbersome finger prick, test strip type, BG test.

For the first year of using the 14-day sensor setup, I would estimate that one out of four sensors had a problem that kept me from using it for the full 14 days. Some wouldn't work at all after the 1 hour warm-up period, others would keep giving me the "wait 10 minutes" message for hours, sometimes an entire day, before finally working. Still others would work for a number of days and then suddenly stop working and say "sensor failed" or "replace sensor."

None of these failures were due to improper adhesion... I learned early that no matter how well I cleaned my skin with alcohol, and made sure it was dry, I needed to use a single band of medical tape wrapped around most of my arm, to keep the sensor securely attached. So that wasn't the cause of the sensors failing. In fact, when a sensor was removed after an early failure OR it's full 14-days of service, it was still very well attached to the skin with a water-tight seal and an un-kinked sensor wick.

As far as accuracy of the 14-day sensors I used, about 30% were as accurate as my test strip meter, and the rest of them read 20 to 100 points higher. I only had a few that read lower than my test strip meter.

On the topic of test strips, even though the Libre reader has a slot for a test strip, and it may have had something to do with the calibration, none were available in America.

Also, I gave up calling Abbott customer service for replacement sensors because they made it so difficult to do. Normally there would be a long wait on hold before you got to talk to a person, and 90% of the time there was a communication barrier because they couldn't speak or understand English much at all. And all the information they requested for error codes and other diagnostic information -- would usually take close to an hour to provide. Abbott know that their sensors have a substantial failure rate... but they just don't care.

When the Libre II system became available where I live, I was happy to give it a try. It was nice that it had a low BG warning alarm to protect you from an insulin reaction during sleep. They needed to be recharged a couple times a week though -- instead of once a month like the 14-day reader -- but it was worth it for the alarm feature.

I was having about twice as many Libre II sensor failures and inaccurate readings as I had with the 14-day sensors. Gradually, it wouldn't work at all for me. My Dr. told me that another patient of hers had the same problem. I was able to get Abbott customer service to send me several replacement Libre II sensors and a new reader... but none of them worked for me. And I don't take vitamin C or any other supplements that could cause the system not to work. All that Abbott had to say about this is that their system may not work for everyone... but not _*WHY*_. I had my Dr. run a bunch of blood tests to see if there was a problem with my blood chemistry, but all was normal.

So, I went back to using the 14-day system and at least that worked SOME of the time. However, about two months ago, even the 14-day sensors would not work. The last four sensors all started the 60-minute initialization period okay, but after that... simply stated: Replace Sensor. My cost per sensor is $120 and I estimate I have wasted over $2,400 buying defective sensors in the past couple of years while Abbott is laughing all the way to the bank! They really do not care about the people who use their products. Thank goodness my test strip system is still reliable and accurate.

To all the people here who claim they have no or very few problems with the Freestyle Libre systems, let me say I am happy for you. For those here who have experienced more serious issues, I feel your pain. I hope what I've shared here is helpful for others. I sure do wish that Abbott would seriously investigate _*WHY*_ their system fails to work with some people... especially people that it *USED TO* work for... *WHY???* But, they answer only to their stock market shareholders, and maximum profits will always be their top priority.

Take care everyone...

 Kent


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## EmmaL76

Derrick Baughan said:


> Has anyone else kept a track of the failure rate of the sensor?
> 
> I have just started with the system. A 'trial' where I was issued a reader and one sensor, at the hospital but by a company rep. Clearly not a trial in the true sense of the word. More a marketing ploy to create demand. Although there is nothing inherently wrong with that. I am now self-funding the sensors until my CCG (Cambridgeshire) approve the use.
> 
> The system is a step change in how I manage my diabetes and I find it extremely useful. However, I now have my 5th sensor on and, after 4 days, it looks like it is failing. I keep getting the error message that glucose readings are not available, try again in a few minutes.
> 
> This will be the 2nd of 5 sensors to fail, a rate of 40%. Tomorrow I ring Abbot up to see what they have to say. Anyone else had a similar experience or am I just the unlucky one to get the Friday afternoon sensors?


I have had issues in the past, reading too high then suddenly dropping low for hours at a time. This happened with about 3 of my sensors in a row. I have had trouble with the cannot read try again later thing, this always happens after my iPhone has died  and been on charge for some strange reason. The one I had most recently that failed, when I removed it I noticed the needle had a bend in it and that one was very uncomfortable when I inserted it.


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## Type1pumping

Hi sorry if I am on wrong thread on freestyle libre 2 with pods today after 12 days started to get scan error so I changed the sensor scanned as new sensor all good wait the hour started to get blood warnings and so scan get scan error after an hour 10 to 15 attempts to scan still scan error no code 373 so I replace this sensor swapping arms wiping off the sticky plaster stuff do whole process again still scan error on new sensor. The. I call Abbott get offered 2 new sensors 5-7 days delivery then advised to delete app on iPhone start again then I have to rescan sensor and start again it recognises sensor as ok the. Scan and guess what scan error still so 3 sensors not from same batch serial number and pricking finger anyone had this or similar any ideas?


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## rebrascora

@Type1pumping 
I have a suspicion that a lot of the problems may be related to the phone app rather than the sensors being faulty and I wonder if you can get hold of a reader and try that instead and see how you get on with that.


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## Proud to be erratic

rebrascora said:


> @Type1pumping
> I have a suspicion that a lot of the problems may be related to the phone app rather than the sensors being faulty and I wonder if you can get hold of a reader and try that instead and see how you get on with that.


Sadly I think it won't make a difference between using a phone (android) or the reader. I'm temporarily without Diabox and true CGM. I'd started my current sensor with the reader, so I'm now predominantly using the reader, scanning 35-40 times daily to keep track of where my BG has got to (oh, how I miss my Diabox!) and this sensor, like my previous 2, started 2+ mmol/L higher than actual and now on day 9 is 2+ mmol/L below actual (both at steady state). The window where they broadly aligned was less than 6 hrs.

I'm still working with this sensor, but will probably dump it tomorrow; certainly will if the differential worsens. Last night and this evening I'm getting low alarms that are false, which is manageable (under duress!) but is still poor product delivery by Abbott. Meanwhile I've been scanning on my android phone 8 or 9 times daily and populating food and insulin data for LibreLink and there is extremely little difference between the phone and reader. I'm having to finger prick a lot, because I can't trust Libre enough.

One bonus is that scanning with the reader is extremely quick and forgiving, whereas scanning with the phone often fails because the NFC is not exactly aligned and needs a 2nd or 3rd repeat, then it takes a few seconds to provide an actual reading. 35-40 x daily phone scans could become really stressful. In most other respects the reader is clumsy and basic, in relation to the phone and the LibreLink app.


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## Type1pumping

Thanks everyone - so I called Abbott not much use effectively they first blamed the sensors - so are sending me 3 replacements. So last night I thought ok I will fire up the freestyle libre 2 reader. this morning I took off the 1 day old sensor I could not get the phone to read setup a new one used the libre reader all ok. Then tried to use the i-phone scan error. I got called back by Abbott as we raised a complaint and I got talked through clearing down the cache in the APP. yesterday the support guy told me to delete the APP as I have connection to my local NHS - today I was told I should not do that  just clear down cache. So I now have a working solution without finger pricking for one sensor on my arm but no phone working despite delete APP, clean cache, power off i-phone. 

I will keep trying but I feel I will need to get to the end of this sensor then try again with a new one - while waiting for the next call back from abbott.


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## mikeyB

The Libre 2 is a disaster zone for Abbott. For that reason I switched to Dexcom, which is both more accurate, and if occasionally it drifts from accuracy, you can recalibrate the sensor and that fixes it. No need to complain to the manufacturers. Their customer service is better too, at least on this side of the Atlantic!


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## JennySL

Derrick Baughan said:


> Has anyone else kept a track of the failure rate of the sensor?
> 
> I have just started with the system. A 'trial' where I was issued a reader and one sensor, at the hospital but by a company rep. Clearly not a trial in the true sense of the word. More a marketing ploy to create demand. Although there is nothing inherently wrong with that. I am now self-funding the sensors until my CCG (Cambridgeshire) approve the use.
> 
> The system is a step change in how I manage my diabetes and I find it extremely useful. However, I now have my 5th sensor on and, after 4 days, it looks like it is failing. I keep getting the error message that glucose readings are not available, try again in a few minutes.
> 
> This will be the 2nd of 5 sensors to fail, a rate of 40%. Tomorrow I ring Abbot up to see what they have to say. Anyone else had a similar experience or am I just the unlucky one to get the Friday afternoon sensors?


Hi Derrick, yes I have the same problem. It says sensor on working wait 10 minutes. Happens at least twice with each 2 week sensor. It is frustrating as it usually happens when I most need it. Not sure how to resolve this. J


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## helli

JennySL said:


> Hi Derrick, yes I have the same problem. It says sensor on working wait 10 minutes. Happens at least twice with each 2 week sensor. It is frustrating as it usually happens when I most need it. Not sure how to resolve this. J


The “wait 10 minutes” message is not a sensor failure.
It is, usually, an indication your levels are changing too quickly for Libre to calculate.
There are some errors which start with this message when it is not resolved. But not all wait “10 minute“ messages are precursors to failure. They are correct, designed behaviour.


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## Annemarie

I have had many issues, however, Abbots are very pleasant and send replacements quickly even when I had knocked them off myself. I did have 1 that just wouldn’t stick and another that only lasted for a few days. Mostly I have been very pleased using them over the last 5 years althoughI can get the ,’try again in 10 minutes’ sign quite frequently.


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## Annemarie

I can get a significant discrepancy between reading the sensor graph and the list


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## DouglasXKR

rebrascora said:


> I have a suspicion that a lot of the problems may be related to the phone app rather than the sensors being faulty and I wonder if you can get hold of a reader and try that instead and see how you get on with that.


I think your suspicion is correct. After several “wait 10 minutes” and keen to avoid sending them back, I physically reset my iPhone which cured the fproblem. It also speeded up the functions of the programme.

This year as soon as the warm weather arrived and I started swimming, the accuracy of my Libre2 was unacceptable. I could also find other uses for £100/month. So I reverted to finger prick testing. Happily I found that the experience gained with the Libre was helpful when relying on finger prick blood test. The downside might be that the average bg will be slightly above what i might have achieved using the Libre. I’ll know that when next an hba1c test is done.


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## rebrascora

DouglasXKR said:


> I think your suspicion is correct. After several “wait 10 minutes” and keen to avoid sending them back, I physically reset my iPhone which cured the fproblem. It also speeded up the functions of the programme.
> 
> This year as soon as the warm weather arrived and I started swimming, the accuracy of my Libre2 was unacceptable. I could also find other uses for £100/month. So I reverted to finger prick testing. Happily I found that the experience gained with the Libre was helpful when relying on finger prick blood test. The downside might be that the average bg will be slightly above what i might have achieved using the Libre. I’ll know that when next an hba1c test is done.


As a Type 1 you should now automatically qualify to be offered Libre on prescription, so you should not need to self fund. Personally I intend to continue using the reader rather than a phone because I think the algorithm in the reader is less problematic. I don't think I have ever had the scan again in 10 mins message with the reader..... but then I am still using the original Libre sensors which will sadly be phased out at the end of this year. I am hanging on till the bitter end with them as they have been mostly very reliable for me.


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## grovesy

I still get the scan again in 10mins with the reader as well as my phone.


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## AbiParkin

Hi,

This doesn’t surprise me as recently 3 out of my last 4 sensors have been faulty, and it’s causing a lot of stress and anxiety when I’m getting told by my nurses to trust the libre.

Abbot have replaced the faulty sensors but this shouldn’t happen nearly as frequently, and no one should constantly be having to return sensors for replacements which then also don’t work.

It looks like mine all came from the same batch number which I suggested when I phoned Abbot, but I haven’t heard anything about faulty batches.


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## Sharon Lady P

Derrick Baughan said:


> Has anyone else kept a track of the failure rate of the sensor?
> 
> I have just started with the system. A 'trial' where I was issued a reader and one sensor, at the hospital but by a company rep. Clearly not a trial in the true sense of the word. More a marketing ploy to create demand. Although there is nothing inherently wrong with that. I am now self-funding the sensors until my CCG (Cambridgeshire) approve the use.
> 
> The system is a step change in how I manage my diabetes and I find it extremely useful. However, I now have my 5th sensor on and, after 4 days, it looks like it is failing. I keep getting the error message that glucose readings are not available, try again in a few minutes.
> 
> This will be the 2nd of 5 sensors to fail, a rate of 40%. Tomorrow I ring Abbot up to see what they have to say. Anyone else had a similar experience or am I just the unlucky one to get the Friday afternoon sensors?


My daughter has had 3 out of her last 4 libre freestyle 2 CGMs fail. Abbott have been helpful in reiki I get them, but doesn’t deal with the stress of the issue. I think as many people as possible need to complain or speak to the NHS to hopefully get this resolved.


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## JennySL

helli said:


> The “wait 10 minutes” message is not a sensor failure.
> It is, usually, an indication your levels are changing too quickly for Libre to calculate.
> There are some errors which start with this message when it is not resolved. But not all wait “10 minute“ messages are precursors to failure. They are correct, designed behaviour.


How kind of you to help with this. Solved and issue for me. First time I’ve put a chat. Thank you.


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## Carl H

I have been using my libre pads for about 3 months now & have experienced that at least 7 sensors have failed, I call the helpline & they are replaced but I find this very disappointing on the product. All sensors have been returned for tests as it is a very regular ocurance. When they work, absolutely Brilliant but reliability is poor. Hopefully on all the returned ones they will get some answers.


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## trophywench

I'd never had a single scan again in 10 minutes message until very recently just as I was thinking I'd tell you all I'd never had one - that served me right for getting complacent.  Anyway it was simply because my BG was shooting up cos it turned out I hadn't bolused for some cake, so at least scanning made me rectify that.

Then I scanned again, and though of course it was still way high, it read it which was the main thing.


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## rayray119

Carl H said:


> I have been using my libre pads for about 3 months now & have experienced that at least 7 sensors have failed, I call the helpline & they are replaced but I find this very disappointing on the product. All sensors have been returned for tests as it is a very regular ocurance. When they work, absolutely Brilliant but reliability is poor. Hopefully on all the returned ones they will get some answers.


It seems there's quite a few people with this issue when I was on them they hardly ever lasted. V


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## everydayupsanddowns

trophywench said:


> I'd never had a single scan again in 10 minutes message until very recently just as I was thinking I'd tell you all I'd never had one - that served me right for getting complacent.  Anyway it was simply because my BG was shooting up cos it turned out I hadn't bolused for some cake, so at least scanning made me rectify that.
> 
> Then I scanned again, and though of course it was still way high, it read it which was the main thing.



I haven‘t used them regularly for a while, but was lucky to have very very few errors in all the years I used L1 and L2


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## Robin

I haven’t had to send back a single Libre 2 sensor since I've been using them, and I only ever sent back 2 original Libres in the couple of years I used them. I’m probably tempting fate here, but they seem to suit some peoples arms better than others, and I'm one of the lucky ones.


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## Proud to be erratic

Robin said:


> I haven’t had to send back a single Libre 2 sensor since I've been using them, and I only ever sent back 2 original Libres in the couple of years I used them. I’m probably tempting fate here, but they seem to suit some peoples arms better than others, and I'm one of the lucky ones.


I agree. I've reluctantly accepted that my (still) 50% failure rate is me! My body and Libre 2 don't seem to like each other. My current Libre started almost 3 points above actual, dropped a bit then yesterday was 2 points low and now seems close. All comparisons in steady state, ie horizontal arrows. I use and broadly trust the trend arrows but finger prick before main meals and any corrections. 
I work with unreliable Libres and 'work' is an appropriate bit of vocabulary, constantly having to mentally adjust and check what is going on in relation to what I was anticipating. But I work with them because the faff of constantly replacing and waiting for replacements makes it necessary that I do tolerate and work with them.


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## rayray119

Mine was more 


Proud to be erratic said:


> I agree. I've reluctantly accepted that my (still) 50% failure rate is me! My body and Libre 2 don't seem to like each other. My current Libre started almost 3 points above actual, dropped a bit then yesterday was 2 points low and now seems close. All comparisons in steady state, ie horizontal arrows. I use and broadly trust the trend arrows but finger prick before main meals and any corrections.
> I work with unreliable Libres and 'work' is an appropriate bit of vocabulary, constantly having to mentally adjust and check what is going on in relation to what I was anticipating. But I work with them because the faff of constantly replacing and waiting for replacements makes it necessary that I do tolerate and work with them.


Mine was more like 90% failure and it was inaccuracies that was the problem it was roping then just at toping working quite often after 2 or 3 days.


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## Pattidevans

Honestly they are so accurate for me, within 0.03mmol/l.  I have had maybe 2 failures since I have had them prescribed - what maybe 3 years?  Before that when I was paying I also had maybe 2 failures and I have been using them on and off since they were first launched.

I now rely on them for dosing. Only finger prick once or twice when I put a new one on just to check accuracy.  They are always spot on.  I do wear mine on my thigh which does rule out night time compression lows as I tend  to sleep on my arms.


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## helli

Pattidevans said:


> Honestly they are so accurate for me, within 0.03mmol/l.


How do you calculate such accuracy when they (and all finger prick meters I have used) only report one decimal place?


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## rayray119

helli said:


> How do you calculate such accuracy when they (and all finger prick meters I have used) only report one decimal place?


I guessed it was a typo and it was supposed to say 0.3?


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## Pattidevans

@rayray119 is right, it was a typo that should have been O.3


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## CivicFreak

Derrick Baughan said:


> Has anyone else kept a track of the failure rate of the sensor?
> 
> I have just started with the system. A 'trial' where I was issued a reader and one sensor, at the hospital but by a company rep. Clearly not a trial in the true sense of the word. More a marketing ploy to create demand. Although there is nothing inherently wrong with that. I am now self-funding the sensors until my CCG (Cambridgeshire) approve the use.
> 
> The system is a step change in how I manage my diabetes and I find it extremely useful. However, I now have my 5th sensor on and, after 4 days, it looks like it is failing. I keep getting the error message that glucose readings are not available, try again in a few minutes.
> 
> This will be the 2nd of 5 sensors to fail, a rate of 40%. Tomorrow I ring Abbot up to see what they have to say. Anyone else had a similar experience or am I just the unlucky one to get the Friday afternoon sensors?


I have been using Libre since about March. Didn't have a very good first impression as my first one fell off roughly 2 hours after having it put on - could have been an incorrect application (my DSN did it for me as she was demonstrating how it should be applied, and perhaps my arm wasn't cleaned well enough). Abbott did replace this one with no fuss though. My second failure was that it was constantly reading between 3 or 4 mmol/L above my finger prick readings. It started off reading perfectly good but after a few days it started to go further and further out. Abbott also replaced that one too. If I remember right this was in June, I think.

Since then they have mostly been reliable. I've not needed to contact Abbott again so far. I've had a couple of sensors that were reading a couple of mmol/L above my finger prick readings, once I got used to this discrepancy I compensated for it. 

Generally I have been pleased, although I do still think Abbott need to look at the reliability of the sensors themselves and the data they provide. I understand that they have launched a Libre 3 which may hopefully address some of these issues. No idea when or if it will b available in the UK though.


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## Griff

Derrick Baughan said:


> Has anyone else kept a track of the failure rate of the sensor?
> 
> I have just started with the system. A 'trial' where I was issued a reader and one sensor, at the hospital but by a company rep. Clearly not a trial in the true sense of the word. More a marketing ploy to create demand. Although there is nothing inherently wrong with that. I am now self-funding the sensors until my CCG (Cambridgeshire) approve the use.
> 
> The system is a step change in how I manage my diabetes and I find it extremely useful. However, I now have my 5th sensor on and, after 4 days, it looks like it is failing. I keep getting the error message that glucose readings are not available, try again in a few minutes.
> 
> This will be the 2nd of 5 sensors to fail, a rate of 40%. Tomorrow I ring Abbot up to see what they have to say. Anyone else had a similar experience or am I just the unlucky one to get the Friday afternoon sensors?


I've had the last 5 in a row fail well before the 14 days!!


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## TheGodsonUk

Griff said:


> I've had the last 5 in a row fail well before the 14 days!!


Similar here .. 3 out of 4 failed.
I am a Type 2 but got them from GP on script... 

Started on 1st October .. 1st failed on day 6,  2nd lasted 14 days .. Yahoo.. 3rd failed on day 8 and 4th has failed on day 9. So on my 5th sensor in 6 weeks ...

Abbot have replaced the 1st two failed ones and i am awaiting the reason / investigation why the 2nd one failed ( you have to ask for the investigation results) .  I have just reported the 3rd failure but investigation can take 90 days .. not much help in trying to ascertain reasons for the failures..

I basically have a desk job and so not very energetic so that should not be the reason.  

I have also tried a Love my libre on sensor 2 and 3 but sensor 3 still failed. I  have not had one on sensor 4 and that has failed so am at a bit of a loss as to why they keep failing.


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## Griff

Where do you live in the UK? We still can't get sensors for type 2 in the Solihull area!


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## TheGodsonUk

Bristol area - South Glos.
There was a web site i read somewhere (didn't bookmark it) which explained how to inform your GP that the Fresstyle Libre should be available with NO COST TO GP it seems for type 2 but certain criteria .. some that i remember....

On Insulin
Injecing more than 3 times a day (I was injecting up to 6 times with various Bolus of Rapid insulin)
Excessive Finger Prick Testing  (I was up to 7-10 times a day) 
Following a DKA and my Sugars/HBA1C going all over the place it seemed sensible to move to the CGM from finger prick tests

See https://www.diabetes.org.uk/about_us/news/nice-guidelines-recommend-wider-use-for-flash-and-cgm

Hope that helps


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## mikeyB

I would comment on this thread if someone would explain what they mean by "failure". Is this meaning that the sensor no longer supplies information, or it just falls off? Until  we define what we mean by failure we may be commenting on different things.


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## TheGodsonUk

In my case I have had 2 types of "failure"

1st and 3rd Failed with the readings dropping to hypo / red (3.9 or less) for a number of readings then the App (on an Android - Samsung S10 plus) stating to replace sensor.
 2nd Failure, the sensor kept giving low / Red Hypo readings for over 6 hours yet blood tests were showing 6 - 8 - 10 readings. At that point I just replaced the sensor.
So, IMHO, a failure would be that the sensor is no longer showing readings above 3.9 which seems to indicate that the sensor cannot detect an accurate Blood Sugar level. The fact that the App itself in 2 out of 3 cases actually told me to replace the sensor is helpful.

The fact that Abbott are taking up to 90 days to investigate failed Sensors is not good.

Hope that Helps
Regards
Stef


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## 42istheanswer

TheGodsonUk said:


> Bristol area - South Glos.
> There was a web site i read somewhere (didn't bookmark it) which explained how to inform your GP that the Fresstyle Libre should be available with NO COST TO GP it seems for type 2 but certain criteria .. some that i remember....
> 
> On Insulin
> Injecing more than 3 times a day (I was injecting up to 6 times with various Bolus of Rapid insulin)
> Excessive Finger Prick Testing  (I was up to 7-10 times a day)
> Following a DKA and my Sugars/HBA1C going all over the place it seemed sensible to move to the CGM from finger prick tests
> 
> See https://www.diabetes.org.uk/about_us/news/nice-guidelines-recommend-wider-use-for-flash-and-cgm
> 
> Hope that helps


Actually it does cost GP practice budget, all primary care costs are allocated against that including attending A&E. However it may not be a net increase in cost ("cost neutral") compared to the number of strips they may otherwise be prescribing in those situations where NICE recommends that it is provided, and in the long run may effectively provide a saving by providing better control, and therefore reducing complications and their associated costs.


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## Rigsby9876

Derrick Baughan said:


> Has anyone else kept a track of the failure rate of the sensor?
> 
> I have just started with the system. A 'trial' where I was issued a reader and one sensor, at the hospital but by a company rep. Clearly not a trial in the true sense of the word. More a marketing ploy to create demand. Although there is nothing inherently wrong with that. I am now self-funding the sensors until my CCG (Cambridgeshire) approve the use.
> 
> The system is a step change in how I manage my diabetes and I find it extremely useful. However, I now have my 5th sensor on and, after 4 days, it looks like it is failing. I keep getting the error message that glucose readings are not available, try again in a few minutes.
> 
> This will be the 2nd of 5 sensors to fail, a rate of 40%. Tomorrow I ring Abbot up to see what they have to say. Anyone else had a similar experience or am I just the unlucky one to get the Friday afternoon sensors?


I have only been using the Libre sensor for a month but I have had so many issues. It is so unreliable. I have positioned and applied all sensors correctly. One fell off after a bath. One failed after getting message saying I had to wait 10 minutes for a Glucose reading. One failed due to the app not being compatible with my Samsung mobile and I had to clear caches. The longest a sensor has lasted it 6 days. I using it correctly and have followed all instructions to the letter. When it works it is great but I have to carry around my test stripts for when it stops giving readings. Rather pointless. Frustrating but I hope that these issues can be resolved. Any ideas folks?


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