# Libre 3 experience



## Paulbreen

Hello all, I haven't posted for a good while but I did say I'd give a little review of the Libre 3 sensor. 
For those that dont know I live in Germany and we have access to the next generation of sensors at least a year ahead of the UK
I have been using the Libre 3 for 3 months now so I think it is long enough to offer a fair review.
First thing is the size it is so small you dont even know its there even in the shower you barely notice it, the thickness is about half of the 1&2 so knocking them off seems to be unlikely, I didn't mange it yet, I've been in the bath with it, shower with it everyday, and have been swimming about 20 times and so far they didn't fall off.
For the eco aware people there is much less packaging as the applicator is already preloaded with the sensor so 50% less plastic in it.
Now the best part,  NO MORE SCANNING!!
There is no more a reader with the Libre3 it uses only an phone app, I have iPhone and there is no real difference to the libre1&2 App so nothing new to learn.
Starting it is much the same as previous ones, scan it the first time and an hour later the App will ping you that it is working and giving readings and from then on you just open the app and you have the reading in real time, you will see more detail in the graph as it is updating every 5 minutes, the setup is much the same you set the high/low alarms in the same way, one downside is you lose your previous data from the Libre 1&2 but in reality that's no big deal for me.
It is also pinging me through my iWatch if I'm going high or low which is great if you are running around busy and forget to be scanning it will let you know.
The experience has been fantastic, I remember getting my first Libre 1 in 2014 and how it revolvisied my testing well all I can say is well done Abbott you did it again, life with this sensor is so easy.
I will stop using the sensors in a couple of weeks as I am moving onto pump therapy again with the Tandem TSlim with Control IQ software and Dexcom sensors but if I dont get along with it I will be back on the Libre3 in a flash.
Start pestering your Diabetic teams to get this approved for your prescriptions as soon as possible,just for Info in Germany Libre1 is no longer available, the price for the Libre2 and Libre3 is the same so no excuses about costs...


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## Bruce Stephens

Does the sensor still have an 8 hour memory? That is, if I'm out of range of my phone for an hour do I have an hour gap in the history or will it fill it in?


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## nonethewiser

Looking forward to libre 3 after reading your post Paul, thanks for info.


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## Paulbreen

Bruce Stephens said:


> Does the sensor still have an 8 hour memory? That is, if I'm out of range of my phone for an hour do I have an hour gap in the history or will it fill it in?


I'll give it a test Bruce, the phone is in another room now so I'll leave it there for a while and leave another comment later

To be honest I didn't notice any gaps in the trace that I would have seen with the Libre 1&2


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## Bruce Stephens

Thanks. On reflection I'm not that sure I'd notice either way.

My guess is still that they kept the memory (because removing it would be more trouble than it would be worth).


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## rebrascora

Thanks for that review Paul. Great that you find it such a boon! You don't mention accuracy from what I can see? How is that working out for you? I am guessing it must be pretty good.

Love that they have improved the applicator plastic waste situation.

I am a little concerned that they have phased out Libre 1 in Germany now as I am guessing that will eventually happen here too and I really like my Libre 1 which works brilliantly for me with the reader and I don't really want to upgrade to a smart phone. There are also lots of people here who have issues with Libre 2 failure which rather discourages me from upgrading.

Hope things go well for you with the Tslim and Dexcom.


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## Paulbreen

Paulbreen said:


> I'll give it a test Bruce, the phone is in another room now so I'll leave it there for a while and leave another comment later
> 
> To be honest I didn't notice any gaps in the trace that I would have seen with the Libre 1&2


 Hi Bruce, I left it in the other room for an hour and a half and the watch was pinging me with loss of signal for the sensor the whole time but there is no gaps in the trace so I would say the sensor is holding data as before


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## helli

rebrascora said:


> There are also lots of people here who have issues with Libre 2 failure which rather discourages me from upgrading.


Don't forget the silent majority who have no problem with Libre 2.


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## Lily123

How does the constant data from Libre 3 affect your phone and watch battery?


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## Bruce Stephens

helli said:


> Don't forget the silent majority who have no problem with Libre 2.


I've had a single sensor fail. I'm inclined to think it just never applied correctly (which could have happened with Libre 1, but just didn't for me).

Anyway, I'm not going to ask to go back. I like the alarms (though I don't really rely on them).


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## Paulbreen

rebrascora said:


> Thanks for that review Paul. Great that you find it such a boon! You don't mention accuracy from what I can see? How is that working out for you? I am guessing it must be pretty good.
> 
> Love that they have improved the applicator plastic waste situation.
> 
> I am a little concerned that they have phased out Libre 1 in Germany now as I am guessing that will eventually happen here too and I really like my Libre 1 which works brilliantly for me with the reader and I don't really want to upgrade to a smart phone. There are also lots of people here who have issues with Libre 2 failure which rather discourages me from upgrading.
> 
> Hope things go well for you with the Tslim and Dexcom.


Hi Barbara
Long time no speak, I hope you are doing well, I was also reading so many bad things about the Libre2 but I never really had any problems with it, I was using it for 4 years and i think I lost not more than half a dozen of them mostly by my own stupidity, knocking them off or dozing off in the bath and putting it under warm water for too long.
as a seasoned L1 user i think you wouldn't have too many issues with the L2, you know what to expect and what works for you. I dont think Abbott have stopped making the L1 I think its just not offered here I think, we get a yearly prescription form our Diabetes Doctor here and they dont change its content unless you ask, I just didn't see the L1 in the online shop.
The L3 might not be for you if you dont want to have the smartphone but I'd say its worth the hassle to have one.
i forgot the accuracy bit Barbara, I'm not doing heavy monitoring of it to be fair, i was using my meter last week because I was at a trade show in Birmingham and felt it was useful to do a double check a few times a day because of the difference in eating habits and didn't see anything more than 2mmol, after Wednesday I stopped checking, I'm one of the lucky ones who can feel the drift towards a hypo or hyper so after 3 days of checking i felt comfortable enough i was getting good data, I just did a little test for you, 7.2 with the L3 sensor and 6.8 with the Accucheck sensor so not too bad 
Paul


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## Paulbreen

Lily123 said:


> How does the constant data from Libre 3 affect your phone and watch battery?


Hi Lily, I dont notice any problem, I have a Iphone12+ and a iWatch7, the phone battery lasts a couple of days and the watch more or less the same


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## Lily123

Paulbreen said:


> Hi Lily, I dont notice any problem, I have a Iphone12+ and a iWatch7, the phone battery lasts a couple of days and the watch more or less the same


The battery was the one thing I was worried about but that’s good that it doesn’t affect it


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## rebrascora

helli said:


> Don't forget the silent majority who have no problem with Libre 2.


I accept that, but when people I respect and trust who didn't have problems with Libre 1 are having massive problems with Libre 2, it discourages me from wanting to try it when Libre 1 works fabulously for me. I could imagine me disabling the alarms a lot of the time with Libre 2 because they would irritate me.... particularly overnight. All alarms have erroneous activations and I value my own and my partner's sleep too much. My body is so far very good at telling me when I am going low or high so I am happy to continue to listen to that for now. I do wonder if the app with Libre 2 is more of the problem than the sensors and maybe the phone you use has an impact or you using xDrip may be why you have such success. Maybe that is just my mistrust of technology, but I am more than happy to stick with my Libre 1 and reader. I still consider my phone more of an intrusion than an advantage and don't always have it on my person as a result.


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## nonethewiser

Personally couldn't go back to libre 1 but can understand rebrasco's reasoning, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Never had issue with libre 2 until now, recently got new phone which was Samsung same as previous, used Samsung Smartswitch to transfer all data including apps, since then alarms have been unavailable.

Message on app said as sensor wasn't started by this phone alarms are not available, so Saturday gone sensor ran out so started it with current phone but still no alarms, rang Abbott they said it was sensor problem so sending out replacement, so changed sensor again still no alarms.

Asked call handler if uninstalling app downloading again would resolve issue, they said no & would lose data, this was said first time of calling.  Just wondering if transfer from old phone to new has affected app in some way, cleared cache & all that on app, any ideas?


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## Bruce Stephens

A negative review of the Libre 3 app (compared to the Libre 2, specifically the alarms):

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/diabetes_t1/comments/u1t6f8


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## Paulbreen

Well after 3 months of use Bruce my alarms and vibrations are working both on the phone App and the Watch App, they did have a signal loss reconnect error reported but a new update fixed that on Monday this week. now if the signal loss happens just wait until the next comms exchange happens (5 minutes) and its fine again. Its a small device and logic would tell you to use the small PC that is called your phone to configure alarms and vibrations and not expect a relatively small and simple App to cover it when the phone is way more powerful, he should go back to the peeing on a strip of paper days and colour matching it to a scale to see where your Glucose is at lol


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## Schoolmom

Bruce Stephens said:


> Does the sensor still have an 8 hour memory? That is, if I'm out of range of my phone for an hour do I have an hour gap in the history or will it fill it in?


Hi! I have a Libre2 but when I’m away/out of reach for my sensor I just have a gap in my graph but I do get to see whether it’s rising, dropping or staying the same between those two points.


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## helli

Schoolmom said:


> Hi! I have a Libre2 but when I’m away/out of reach for my sensor I just have a gap in my graph but I do get to see whether it’s rising, dropping or staying the same between those two points.


That is unusual, I definitely find that it back fills the gap for me when connection is resumed. 
Is your sensor and reader/phone separated for longer than 8 hours. The sensor only stores the last 8 hours of data so if you don't scan for more than that time you will only get the last 8 hours and there will be a gap.


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## nonethewiser

Schoolmom said:


> Hi! I have a Libre2 but when I’m away/out of reach for my sensor I just have a gap in my graph but I do get to see whether it’s rising, dropping or staying the same between those two points.



Only time I get gap in graph is when changing sensor, often away from mobile phone when in house or in garden & not had gaps, even had low bg alarm go off when phone was in front room & myself in garden, that is why signal loss alarm has been turned off since day 1.


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## Paulbreen

With the Libre2 It mostly happened to me during the night for some reason, phone was next to me on the night stand, I just put it down to me lying on the sensor during the night, the Libre3 didn't have any gaps in the trace so far.


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## nonethewiser

nonethewiser said:


> Personally couldn't go back to libre 1 but can understand rebrasco's reasoning, if it ain't broke don't fix it.
> 
> Never had issue with libre 2 until now, recently got new phone which was Samsung same as previous, used Samsung Smartswitch to transfer all data including apps, since then alarms have been unavailable.
> 
> Message on app said as sensor wasn't started by this phone alarms are not available, so Saturday gone sensor ran out so started it with current phone but still no alarms, rang Abbott they said it was sensor problem so sending out replacement, so changed sensor again still no alarms.
> 
> Asked call handler if uninstalling app downloading again would resolve issue, they said no & would lose data, this was said first time of calling.  Just wondering if transfer from old phone to new has affected app in some way, cleared cache & all that on app, any ideas?



One of life mysteries, later that evening after posting this alarms were back, no idea why but did restart phone earlier in evening, anyway all good now.


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## everydayupsanddowns

Thanks for your thoughts on L3 @Paulbreen

Always good to get a range of people’s experiences - both good and bad.

Glad it’s working well for you


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## Paulbreen

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Thanks for your thoughts on L3 @Paulbreen
> 
> Always good to get a range of people’s experiences - both good and bad.
> 
> Glad it’s working well for you


Thanks Mike, it is a game changer, people who have the smartphones will love it I'm sure, its a pity about the reader being discontinued for the less tech people.
I'm sort of reluctant to go back to the pump because of it, I'm not looking forward to the size of the Dexcom sensor compared to the L3 tiny size but the Control IQ is too good to miss, I start the TSlim end of the month so I'm sure I'll post something about that combination in due time


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## Paulbreen

Another little but of info I got yesterday relating to the L3, I started the Tandem Tslim with a G6 sensor and the nurse that came to do the training told me that Tandem are working to bring the Libre 3 to work with their pumps in 2023 or early 2024


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## Craig92

Paulbreen said:


> With the Libre2 It mostly happened to me during the night for some reason, phone was next to me on the night stand, I just put it down to me lying on the sensor during the night, the Libre3 didn't have any gaps in the trace so far.


Paul, you are using Libre 3 with the official Libre 3 app, right ? On the app, do you see your blood glucose levels every minute or every 5 minutes ? At the end of 14-day period, did you get all of your data smoothly without disconnections ? On the app or on LibreView website platform, can you access your data and export it as a CSV file ? Thanks


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## Benny G

Craig92 said:


> Paul, you are using Libre 3 with the official Libre 3 app, right ? On the app, do you see your blood glucose levels every minute or every 5 minutes ? At the end of 14-day period, did you get all of your data smoothly without disconnections ? On the app or on LibreView website platform, can you access your data and export it as a CSV file ? Thanks


This is the google search page which links to the information you require regarding CSV export from Libreview



			libreview data export as csv - Google Search


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## Paulbreen

Craig92 said:


> Paul, you are using Libre 3 with the official Libre 3 app, right ? On the app, do you see your blood glucose levels every minute or every 5 minutes ? At the end of 14-day period, did you get all of your data smoothly without disconnections ? On the app or on LibreView website platform, can you access your data and export it as a CSV file ? Thanks


Hi Craig, sorry for the late reply, I was away with work, the 3 is updating every 5 minutes, @Benny G link looks like it would work fine, my app is online real time with my Doctor's system so I never download anything


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## mikeyB

My question would be can you calibrate the sensor from the App as I do with Dexcom G6 when the sensor is a little too far out with BG tests.? It seems a necessary function with all these CGMs.


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## Paulbreen

mikeyB said:


> My question would be can you calibrate the sensor from the App as I do with Dexcom G6 when the sensor is a little too far out with BG tests.? It seems a necessary function with all these CGMs.


To be honest I’m not ever checking my BG with another device, I find trying to measure the same thing with different methods always leads to confusion, I used Libre sensors since 2014 and  trust them to be more or less correct. I’m not one of these people who is trying to keep in target 24/7 if I go a little high or low I feel it so I will keep and eye on it for a while but I don’t fun for a finger prick, we’re diabetic and I feel I manage my diabetes as it suits me not letting my diabetes manage me. 
I just started using the dexcom 6 with my pump and the instructor who came to do the training advised me not to calibrate the sensor for the same reason, too many cooks springs to mind


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## mikeyB

Well, I've been using the Dexcom G6 for a few months now, and find it more reliable than the Libre. However, occasionally I apply a sensor which is two or three units higher than a BG test. One calibration can bring it working as you'd expect. It's older technology, and will be replaced by the G7 soon. If i didn't do that with that sensor, I could be apparently  trundling along with a reading of, say 5.7, when a BG test would say I was trundling along at 3.9. Equally, you may give yourself a correction for a higher result which may be too much.

If you _never _check your sensor with a finger prick test then you have no defence against driving while unfit to do so, for example. I don't have to calibrate the G6 with every sensor, but it can sometimes be necessary.

Dexcom know that there can be a significant difference - that's why they have the facility to calibrate the sensor. I expect the G7 to be more accurate from theG7  sensor is started, at least that's what Dexcom claim.


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## Paulbreen

I have the G6 since March and like you I have found it to be accurate, I have had BG tests at the doctors a couple of times and have been with a few tenths of a mmol of each other. 
I am using the Tandem Tslim pump with the G6 so over bolus or correcting is not an issue, I'm in the 5 week of the pump and my BG is around 94% in target without any effort, the pump is advising the correction if you see yourself going high so I feel I'm pretty safe and like I mentioned I feel 4.4 mmol and over 10mmol so I feel happy with my management and how the pump is working. 
I do understand other people are not so lucky and often dont feel their BG starting to go low or high and in that case I would check with a finger prick.
I live in Germany where the rules are quite different for driving, we dont have big brother looking over our shoulder, it is entirely up to you yourself when you get behind the wheel and the G6 and pump give me the trends so I just take a quick look at either of them as I get in the car.
I think the facility to calibrate a sensor has to be there for the sensor to be approved more than any worries about inaccuracy. 
I do think you need to be aware of your own individual diabetes and its effects, I am quite lucky living here in Germany as I have a group of Doctors who I see regularly covering all the usual suspects,  eyes, Kidneys, liver function, heart and blood. I know it is much more difficult in the UK  from experience, in my first 2 years after diagnosis I never saw a diabetes consultant and that was long before any pandemic.
P.S. I do hope the G7 is much smaller, its like wearing a matchbox car on your arm lol


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## RTI

Paulbreen said:


> I have the G6 since March and like you I have found it to be accurate, I have had BG tests at the doctors a couple of times and have been with a few tenths of a mmol of each other.
> I am using the Tandem Tslim pump with the G6 so over bolus or correcting is not an issue, I'm in the 5 week of the pump and my BG is around 94% in target without any effort, the pump is advising the correction if you see yourself going high so I feel I'm pretty safe and like I mentioned I feel 4.4 mmol and over 10mmol so I feel happy with my management and how the pump is working.
> I do understand other people are not so lucky and often dont feel their BG starting to go low or high and in that case I would check with a finger prick.
> I live in Germany where the rules are quite different for driving, we dont have big brother looking over our shoulder, it is entirely up to you yourself when you get behind the wheel and the G6 and pump give me the trends so I just take a quick look at either of them as I get in the car.
> I think the facility to calibrate a sensor has to be there for the sensor to be approved more than any worries about inaccuracy.
> I do think you need to be aware of your own individual diabetes and its effects, I am quite lucky living here in Germany as I have a group of Doctors who I see regularly covering all the usual suspects,  eyes, Kidneys, liver function, heart and blood. I know it is much more difficult in the UK  from experience, in my first 2 years after diagnosis I never saw a diabetes consultant and that was long before any pandemic.
> P.S. I do hope the G7 is much smaller, its like wearing a matchbox car on your arm lol


I can only agree with your experience. I am German and was living in Germany, France and UK with my T1D (each >10years). The first two are really on top by far for the health support. But I don't complain and always try to arrange myself with it and I must say that I was lucky that I have found in Derby, UK a progressive and top-notch Diabetes and Pump team, which is supporting me in many sense.

PS: I am hoping too that the Libre 3 will be available soon with NHS and to get a closed loop with the upcoming Omnipod 5. But I guess it will be surely not happen before Autumn.


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## DaveAB

Can you buy the Libre3 in the UK?


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## grovesy

It does not even seem to appear on Abbott website.


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## DaveAB

Is the UK preventing purchase if the Libre3 then?


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## helli

DaveAB said:


> Is the UK preventing purchase if the Libre3 then?


What do you mean?
A country cannot prevent sales (or purchase). 
Laws can and vendors can.


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## Bruce Stephens

DaveAB said:


> Is the UK preventing purchase if the Libre3 then?


Abbott is choosing not to offer it for general sale here but we don't know why (or whether they will offer it later).


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## grovesy

Bruce Stephens said:


> Abbott is choosing not to offer it for general sale here but we don't know why (or whether they will offer it later).


It is vert strange as the pervious Libres were offered for sale,


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## DaveAB

I wonder if they are running off the Libre2 stocks?


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## rebrascora

grovesy said:


> It is vert strange as the pervious Libres were offered for sale,


I would imagine it may be a production issue and they are trying to avoid the situation they had with the original Libre where they couldn't supply demand and wouldn't take on new customers until they had more manufacturing capacity.


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## grovesy

rebrascora said:


> I would imagine it may be a production issue and they are trying to avoid the situation they had with the original Libre where they couldn't supply demand and wouldn't take on new customers until they had more manufacturing capacity.


I am skeptical that is the reason.


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## Bruce Stephens

rebrascora said:


> I would imagine it may be a production issue and they are trying to avoid the situation they had with the original Libre where they couldn't supply demand and wouldn't take on new customers until they had more manufacturing capacity.


Or, they offered Libre 1 as an attempt to get use and attention with the hope that it would eventually get prescribed to some extent. And Libre 3 happened to come to the UK at the point where that's less of an issue (people want it and they know the NHS is going to prescribe it to some extent).

Or maybe it's a combination of factors. Maybe the people who normally update the shop are busy doing something else, and next quarter it'll be offering Libre 3. (I still suspect some NHS involvement. Maybe the NHS has a less good deal for Libre 3 for some reason and prefers that Abbott not sell it at the same price and has succeeded in persuading Abbott.)


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## DaveAB

The NHS possibly stopping diabetics from purchasing Libre3 does not sound very helpful.


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## helli

Wow, what a load of speculation. 
Maybe someone could ask Abbott next time they have a faulty Libre 2 to report rather than guessing?

It is unfortunate that that they announced a new product and then made it impossible to purchase but I find speculating has little value.
Thankfully, I am in no rush for Libre 3 so happy to wait for it to come out, as they say nowadays, IRL.


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## DaveAB

I have asked Abbot where/when Libre3 can be purchased in the UK via:









						Contact us | FreeStyle Glucose Meters
					

General enquiries : 0800 170 1177  Monday to Friday between 8:00 AM and…




					freestylediabetes.co.uk
				




I will update here if/when I get a reply.


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## Bruce Stephens

DaveAB said:


> The NHS possibly stopping diabetics from purchasing Libre3 does not sound very helpful.


I should emphasise I have nothing to support that suspicion. It's just as likely to be that they have lots of Libre 2 sensors and want to make sure people keep buying them.


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## BadaBing

Dexcom and Abbott have been suing and countersuing each other for patent infringement over the technology in their cgms - including technology in the Libre 3 - in the US, Germany and the UK. 

Unless the parties reach a settlement beforehand, the UK litigation is scheduled to be decided at first instance only at some point in 2023/24. 

Theoretically the UK litigation could be appealed all the way to the UK Supreme Court which would mean a final court decision in the UK won't take place til 2024/25. Perhaps.

Abbott applied last year to have the first instance UK patent litigation expedited. Having an expedited decision from the UK courts might have helped them with the litigation in Germany and the US (British legal judgements are highly regarded as persuasive abroad, and particularly in the field of intellectual property law). The application to expedited the UK proceedings unsuccessful.

The proceedings in Germany are important because all of Abbott's distribution to the UK for the products in dispute takes place out of its German distribution hub. Of course Abbott could move its distribution elsewhere but that will cost time and money and does not guarantee that Dexcom won't also issue proceedings wherever the distribution hub was moved to.

My understanding is for the time being Dexcom have said to our UK courts they won't inhibit distribution of products coming out of Abbott's German distribution hub to the UK.

If Abbott cannot settle the matter amicably with Dexcom or if they were to lose the litigation, they would be liable to pay Dexcom significant sums of money for every Abbott product sold containing Dexcom patented technology and they would have to account for every item sold as part of that process.

Indeed, if Abbott are found to have infringed Dexcom's patents (and Dexcom's patents aren't ajudged to be invalid) and Abbott cannot redesign their products so that they fall outside the scope of Dexcom's patents, an injunction would be granted by the courts which would forbid all future sales of relevant Abbott products containing Dexcom patented technology.

It is possible - only possible - that the ongoing litigation means Abbott have made a commercial decision not to make the Libre 3 available for sale to the public until the litigation has been concluded.

Of course if my suspicion is correct no one working within Abbott will discuss that with a member of the public. Ever.

Of course, I could be wrong, but it is something to keep in mind.


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## DaveAB

@BadaBing many thanks - I was not aware of any of the above


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## helli

I noticed Abbot has been placing quite a lot of ads on Fakebook recently so I responded to one asking about Libre 3 and got half an answer


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## m1dnc

BadaBing said:


> Indeed, if Abbott are found to have infringed Dexcom's patents ......... an injunction would be granted by the courts which would forbid all future sales of relevant Abbott products containing Dexcom patented technology.


While a permanent injunction (at most as long as the patent(s) remain in force) is possible, I think it would be very unlikely in this situation. Patients need a degree of choice as not every medical device (or drug) is equally well tolerated by different patients, and a permanent injunction would affect that. We are not in an Apple/Android situation.

More likely would be a royalty payment to be paid to the patent proprietor at a rate determined by the Court if the parties cannot agree a rate between themselves. There would also be back payments for past infringements. A prudent alleged infringer will inevitably take this into account in setting his prices or promoting his product until the litigation is concluded.

Whether or not this impacts on Abbott's position on promoting Libre 3 at the moment is probably shrouded in the mists of corporate decision making, and most certainly would be regarded as commercially sensitive.


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## BadaBing

m1dnc said:


> While a permanent injunction (at most as long as the patent(s) remain in force) is possible, I think it would be very unlikely in this situation. Patients need a degree of choice as not every medical device (or drug) is equally well tolerated by different patients, and a permanent injunction would affect that. We are not in an Apple/Android situation.
> 
> More likely would be a royalty payment to be paid to the patent proprietor at a rate determined by the Court if the parties cannot agree a rate between themselves. There would also be back payments for past infringements. A prudent alleged infringer will inevitably take this into account in setting his prices or promoting his product until the litigation is concluded.
> 
> Whether or not this impacts on Abbott's position on promoting Libre 3 at the moment is probably shrouded in the mists of corporate decision making, and most certainly would be regarded as commercially sensitive.


I agree, a settlement of some sort is the most likely final outcome. Although if Dexcom's patents are found to be both valid and infringed, could the court do anything thing other than grant the inevitable injunction that Dexcom will have asked for in their claim form?

These two aren't the only players in the cgm/flashgm market.

The judgement issued concerning the application to expedite the UK patent litigation states both parties had cross licensed the use of their respective patents before hostilities broke out.


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## m1dnc

BadaBing said:


> Although if Dexcom's patents are found to be both valid and infringed, could the court do anything thing other than grant the inevitable injunction that Dexcom will have asked for in their claim form?
> 
> The judgement issued concerning the application to expedite the UK patent litigation states both parties had cross licensed the use of their respective patents before hostilities broke out.


It is not inevitable that the court would grant the injunction. Just because Dexcom asked for it (which would have been boilerplate language in the claim) doesn't mean they would get it. They probably asked for £1+B damages as well.

Interesting about the cross-licensing before hostilities broke out. I wonder what changed? Probably pointless to speculate.


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## BadaBing

m1dnc said:


> It is not inevitable that the court would grant the injunction. Just because Dexcom asked for it (which would have been boilerplate language in the claim) doesn't mean they would get it. They probably asked for £1+B damages as well.
> 
> Interesting about the cross-licensing before hostilities broke out. I wonder what changed? Probably pointless to speculate.


An injunction is always asked for. I've never known it be refused IF the patent in dispute is ajudged valid and infringed. The Patents Act says a patentee with a valid and infringed patent is entitled to an injunction as well as damages or an account of ptofits....unless the parties agree another course of action.

We may never know what made hostilities recommence (the expedited application judgement suggests there were hostilities prior to the cross licensing arrangement). I've assumed its to do with both parties wanting to increase market share, the launch of the Libre 3 and the imminent launch of Dexcom's G7. Invariably it will be about money.


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## trickyearlobe

helli said:


> Maybe someone could ask Abbott next time they have a faulty Libre 2 to report rather than guessing?


I did... they flatly refused to answer stating that they do not discuss commercial information with customers.

When I asked previously about UK release date for Libre2, I got the same answer, then about 2 weeks later, they became available via NHS. Around the same time, supplies via their website for self-funders like me dried up for both Libre1 and Libre2. I had to resort to "grey imports" from DE for a while till they got their supply chain and production for NHS sorted out.

As a result I switched to Dexcom for a while, but they are so pricey to self fund and I really like the size of the Libre.


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## Tom1982

So can you order a Libre 3 from the German site and get it sent here?


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