# Is there a test to see if insulin is denatured?



## ollie1234 (Oct 16, 2011)

I understand this can happen if it gets too hot or cold. Is there any way to test?

I was thinking about that control solution you can get for blood glucose meters and wondering if there was an equivalent for insulin.


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## Northerner (Oct 16, 2011)

I'm not aware of anything Ollie, as far as I know the only indicatior (if it looks OK) is if it doesn't have the desired effect i.e. your levels climb/stay high after injecting.


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## ollie1234 (Oct 16, 2011)

Northerner said:


> I'm not aware of anything Ollie, as far as I know the only indicatior (if it looks OK) is if it doesn't have the desired effect i.e. your levels climb/stay high after injecting.



Same. It concerns me that this is all we have!

Two ideas come to mind... perhaps there's something that reacts with insulin and we could make some kind of litmus paper test?

Also some kind of thermometer that we could attach to the insulin (I use preloaded pens) that could give a warning if it goes out of range?

Just thinking aloud... perhaps we can think it through and make something.


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## Ellie Jones (Oct 16, 2011)

There's no test...  Only an indicator that your control goes out as Alan said.

The older insulins it was slightler easier to see if they had gone off more so the cloudly long acting type..  Cloudly was very easy as you could easily see that ingredient that made it cloudy had clumped together, and it's said that it was possible to see that they clear had crystalised!


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## Robster65 (Oct 16, 2011)

If you're regularly in an environment with fluctuating temperatures (out of the insulin's safe range), you can get a Frio bag to keep the pens in which will regulate the temperature better.

If you're unsure about a pen or cartridge that you think may have got too hot or frozen, then bin it and start another. The NHS isn't THAT cash strapped yet but the day may come when we have to take the empties back to get a new one !! 

Rob


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## FM001 (Oct 16, 2011)

You'll know when you get unexplained highs despite feeling well and trying your best to correct, it's happened on a couple of occasions to me mainly due to the insulin being to warm beforehand.


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## ollie1234 (Oct 17, 2011)

toby said:


> You'll know when you get unexplained highs despite feeling well and trying your best to correct, it's happened on a couple of occasions to me mainly due to the insulin being to warm beforehand.



I know... but I'd much rather test it before I inject it, if I can!

FYI everyone I also asked this question on Reddit's r/diabetes and got some interesting answers, including this one:

"Just a story my Endo told me when I asked if me carrying around my insulin and a bunch of spares in my bag was going to make it go bad or be less effective. Paraphrasing but the answer went like this:

"Humalog has been tested by the army in 40 degree heat for 3 months straight and showed no signs of being any less effective. You'll be fine."

I don't know if this applies to your insulin but I thought I'd share."

Someone also mentioned a test on there.


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## ollie1234 (Oct 18, 2011)

If anyone's curious or following this...

I asked in Reddit's r/chemistry forum about the feasibility of making a test, got signposted to r/biology. There are very interesting posts from scientists in both, but the short answer is that "It can be done, it would just be so expensive, that it would just be easier to throw out your insulin and buy a new vial."

Somewhat longer answers lead to the thought that "Designing a stable monoclonal antibody that discriminates would be tough, but commercializable." If anyone's an entrepreneur or a biochemist here, perhaps you can do something with this info!

Isn't the internet amazing, that we can find out these kinds of things? I wouldn't have imagined I could get the time and attention of professional biochemists to consider my ideas back when I was diagnosed.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Oct 18, 2011)

That's amazing Ollie. Next stop Dragons Den!


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## AlisonM (Oct 19, 2011)

This is fascinating and if a test could could be made reliable and cheaply enough, could save the NHS a lot of money in the long run. It seems to me that something a bit like a test strip or ketone stick would do the job nicely if you could find the right reagent. Anyone have a tame research chemist who wants the Nobel Prize for Diabetes Care?

Does anyone know what the normal Ph of insulin is, or what chemical change would need to be measured to decide if the stuff had gone off?


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## randomange (Oct 19, 2011)

ollie1234 said:


> Somewhat longer answers lead to the thought that "Designing a stable monoclonal antibody that discriminates would be tough, but commercializable." If anyone's an entrepreneur or a biochemist here, perhaps you can do something with this info!





AlisonM said:


> This is fascinating and if a test could could be made reliable and cheaply enough, could save the NHS a lot of money in the long run. It seems to me that something a bit like a test strip or ketone stick would do the job nicely if you could find the right reagent. Anyone have a tame research chemist who wants the Nobel Prize for Diabetes Care?
> 
> Does anyone know what the normal Ph of insulin is, or what chemical change would need to be measured to decide if the stuff had gone off?



The main issue is that insulin that has "gone off" has become denatured, which means that the structure of the protein has changed and it doesn't work properly anymore.  As far as I am aware, there is no simple way to test this without using very expensive, non-portable lab equipment!

Antibodies are a possibility, if you could make one that only bound to one type of insulin, but that would be difficult, time-consuming, and expensive.  Being a biochemist, I know how expensive commercially-available antibodies are, so I'm afraid I can't see this being commercially viable, sorry! 

In terms of diabetes research, I have to say that (in my opinion only!), I don't think this is a big enough problem to justify spending millions on it, and I think the strips, if they were ever made, would cost the NHS way more that the cost of people just opening a fresh vial of insulin.


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