# ITV (5th June) 7:30 Tonight - The Diabetes Epidemic



## Northerner (Jun 5, 2014)

Prepare for much misinformation and gnashing of teeth!


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## AlisonM (Jun 5, 2014)

No doubt it would do wonders for my blood pressure, if I watched it. I'm not sure about my digestion though, so I think I may give it a miss.


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## stephknits (Jun 5, 2014)

Ooh, I do like a bit of shouting at the tele


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## trophywench (Jun 5, 2014)

The Diabetes Epidemic: Tonight

Today on ITV from 7:30pm to 8:00pm

Jonathan Maitland takes a look at the growing problem of dibetes in Britain which is three times more common than cancer and costs the NHS ten billion pounds a year. Diabetes causes blindness, strokes, kidney failure and amputations with over three million people suffering from type two which develops in later life. Due to an ageing population this number is growing fast. He talks to people who have lost both loved ones and limbs. Taking to the streets, he give members of a the public a free diabetes health check with some very interesting results.  SUB

Factual Current Affairs


So he doesn't investigate what can possibly be done about it, he just wants to scare the shit out of everybody that isn't diabetic ....... and many that are ?

Or what ?


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## Pattidevans (Jun 5, 2014)

Oh dear, now I know about it I shall have to watch it.... and shout at the TV!


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## Redkite (Jun 5, 2014)

The very title is enough to raise my blood pressure


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## HOBIE (Jun 5, 2014)

Recorder is on for this.  Has been on our local news prog


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## Hebs (Jun 5, 2014)

I can't watch it. I tried but I don't want to hear what is said. Think I'm in denial


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## Northerner (Jun 5, 2014)

I've been watching Great British Menu, so recorded it


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## KookyCat (Jun 5, 2014)

Couldn't resist having a watch.  I don't think it was too bad.  The principle question was about why it isn't being taken seriously and the lack of support to some people with type 2.  They spoke to the researcher looking at low calorie diets to force the liver and pancreas to eject fat with was interesting.  It certainly wasn't the horror I thought it might be and they did frequently say type 2 when talking about causes and treatments to make it clear, but I expect that's because Diabetes UK were involved maybe?  I do think they were a bit simplistic in their review of the causes but not as bad as it could have been.  I only wrinkled my nose twice


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## Redkite (Jun 5, 2014)

Yes I agree, it was much better than expected.  They did say "type 2" diabetes about half the time so that's better than usual, AND they talked about all the risk factors - age, family history, ethnicity, not just weight and lifestyle.  They touched on food, and the doc did say that ALL foods contain sugar, not just sugary foods, but I think that message could have been a bit stronger/clearer.  The chap who'd lost his leg admitted he didn't control his diabetes very well, and the widow of a chap who sadly passed away after a series of strokes and heart failure said he would skip meals and not take his insulin - so in a way there was a message that educating people and motivating them to look after themselves would be a positive thing.  I was disappointed to hear Barbara Young (I think it was her) mention how costly diabetes is - yes it is, but that's a negative message we don't want to hear, especially from those who are supposed to be advocating for us!  Never mind the financial cost Barbara, let the politicians worry about that, and you stick to caring about the human cost!


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## KookyCat (Jun 5, 2014)

Yes that was one of my nose wrinkles, the mention of cost when they were doing quite well with the human angle.  My other nose wrinkle was the lack of explanation about different food groups and how it's converted into glucose, but I suppose those dietary guidelines are well embedded!


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## HOBIE (Jun 5, 2014)

I have been on the Duk bus a few times as a volunteer. I am what is classed as a "risk assessor" on the bus. I do peoples BMI. The cost of getting the bus to a city ctr & to have staff there isn't free. These buses are to help people & give them a choice hopefully.  Every ones different


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## staceyc (Jun 5, 2014)

I watched and it made me think . I take my tablets all the time but I do still tend to eat what I like tomorrow im starting the diet .


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## HOBIE (Jun 5, 2014)

Really good luck Stacey.  I have two very good mates who are now off medication (both T2).  Every one is different but its worth a go


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## stephknits (Jun 5, 2014)

I had a bit of an issue with the presenter saying type 2 diabetes was always preventable.  I think the programme was probably harder to watch as type 2 as i think most of us are well versed in the blame game, but then again, presumably the intended audience and message was for people at risk or with type 2 who are not yet diagnosed.
I have to say that At 8 stone I would probably do myself some damage if I went on a 600 calorie a day diet for 8 weeks


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## Northerner (Jun 5, 2014)

It bugs the hell out of me the way that they always put across the message that Type 2 is wholly preventable and therefore a person's fault if they get it.


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## stephknits (Jun 5, 2014)

Thanks Northerner, I know I shouldn't take these things personally, but I do find those sorts of statements get me down.  I remember filling in the on-line risk factor calculator they mentioned in the programme shortly after my diagnosis and apart from being over 40, at 43, I didn't have any risks.  Sometimes these things just happen.  I'd also like to add, that even if I had eaten rubbish and was overweight, there are many people in this situAtion that never get diabetes.  Still, I understand the point of the programme, although sometimes wish programmers would credit the general populous with brains..


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## Redkite (Jun 5, 2014)

Northerner said:


> It bugs the hell out of me the way that they always put across the message that Type 2 is wholly preventable and therefore a person's fault if they get it.



To be fair, they didn't say that.  They said there were some risks you couldn't do anything to reduce, ie. age, ethnicity, family history, but that you could reduce your risk of developing type 2 if you reduced your weight and/or waist size.  It was probably the most balanced programme I've seen tbh.


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## stephknits (Jun 5, 2014)

Redkite said:


> To be fair, they didn't say that.  They said there were some risks you couldn't do anything to reduce, ie. age, ethnicity, family history, but that you could reduce your risk of developing type 2 if you reduced your weight and/or waist size.  It was probably the most balanced programme I've seen tbh.



I agree, the experts didn't say that, but the presenter did in a sort of throw away line.  As I say, harder to hear as type 2.  Glad they did try and emphasise that the programme was about type 2 though and hope tHat helped someway to dispelling the idea that kids get diabetes from eating too much sugar.


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## zuludog (Jun 5, 2014)

I didn't think it was too bad, considering it was only half an hour and they tried to cover several points, from a basic explanation to long term problems
I thought the use of the children was trivial & distracting and didn't explain things very well anyway. A simple graphics sequence would have been better

What's needed is a longer and more seriously produced programme; the sort of thing BBC used to do before it was dumbed down.


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## Redkite (Jun 5, 2014)

zuludog said:


> I thought the use of the children was trivial & distracting and didn't explain things very well anyway. A simple graphics sequence would have been better



Yes that part was a bit rubbish.  A good half of the kids taking part were seriously overweight too, which could easily have distracted some viewers from the point they were supposed to be demonstrating.


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## Sally71 (Jun 6, 2014)

When they did that demonstration with the children they said it was fat cells that stop the insulin from working.  Is that really what happens, I hadn't heard that one before, and that rather implies that it is fat which causes D then!

I liked the fact that they said that not all of the risk factors are avoidable, I.e. age and ethnicity, and that most of the horrible complications are avoidable if you look after yourself. I also liked that they kept stressing that they were only talking about type 2.

Not sure about the guy who went on the ultra low calorie diet and "reversed" his diabetes though, I think they should have explained that once you've got it, it's for life and although this chap has no symptoms now, if he strays from his diet he'll just get them straight back again. Not sure a plate full of rice was the healthiest thing for him to be eating either!

But on the whole I think it was a much better explanation than you usually get on these programmes.


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## Northerner (Jun 6, 2014)

I was dubious about the fat cells also, as I don't think that's how it works. I thought that the problem with Type 2 is the lack of/or damaged insulin receptors on the cells, which means that insulin doesn't work correctly i.e. cells become insulin-resistant. 

Overall a good programme, given the usual standards!


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## KookyCat (Jun 6, 2014)

The fat cell hypothesis is related to the research regarding the extreme low fat diet, and it was very simplistic, and because they use  the word fat everyone assumes it means people being overweight.  As I understand it the basis is that people have a genetic predisposition to store fat around the liver and pancreas, hence the specific high risk for some ethnic groups who have certain body shapes.  The fat cells around the liver and pancreas can interfere with insulin absorption.  So in theory you could be slender and have a good diet but genetically predisposed to holding what fat you have in that area so whatever fat you have could have an impact.  The low calorie diet works not because of general weight loss but because the body goes into starvation mode and expels fat from around the organs.  The body quite likes a bit of padding around the organs for protection so will shed other fat first.  It is just a theory but they're testing it currently, and it's quite interesting I think.  I suspect we might find out that type 2 is more than one condition when they do their research but who knows.  

My Dad died recently from complications of type 2 diabetes so I'm quite sensitive to the "blame game" quite often played out in the media, and it don't believe it does anyone much good.  My Dad was a wonderful slightly round little chap, who followed all the advice he was given, but he didn't get the kind of care I'm currently getting.  On the whole the show was a bit simplistic, and I agree that glib comments about all cases of type 2 being preventable are frustrating.  They may well be preventable, and let's hope they are but suggesting that we know how to prevent every case when we don't yet fully understand it undermines they key message that it is a condition that shouldn't be trifled with and every person with it deserves all the help they can get to beat it.


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## Northerner (Jun 6, 2014)

Very well put KookyCat


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## Bloden (Jun 6, 2014)

Sorry to hear about your dad, Kookycat. 

As for the blame game, the media has a lot to answer for. They've miss-educated the general public enormously. I didn't realise how hard being a T2 diabetic was until I started using this forum. If I had to choose, it'd be T1 every time! My hubby's folks were both T2, and I worry he'll get it eventually, even tho he eats well and exercises. At least T2s in Spain get a glucose monitor...


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## Northerner (Jun 6, 2014)

staceyc said:


> I watched and it made me think . I take my tablets all the time but I do still tend to eat what I like tomorrow im starting the diet .



Good luck stacey! Let us know how it goes and if we can help


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## Andy HB (Jun 6, 2014)

Bloden said:


> As for the blame game, the media has a lot to answer for. They've miss-educated the general public enormously. I didn't realise how hard being a T2 diabetic was until I started using this forum. If I had to choose, it'd be T1 every time!



I wouldn't! 

But then, my care was excellent, I was given a BG meter and up to now I have remained diet and exercise only after losing the weight and improving my lifestyle.

Andy HB


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## KookyCat (Jun 6, 2014)

Bloden said:


> Sorry to hear about your dad, Kookycat.
> 
> As for the blame game, the media has a lot to answer for. They've miss-educated the general public enormously. I didn't realise how hard being a T2 diabetic was until I started using this forum. If I had to choose, it'd be T1 every time! My hubby's folks were both T2, and I worry he'll get it eventually, even tho he eats well and exercises. At least T2s in Spain get a glucose monitor...



They do indeed!  To be honest I didn't realise how poor my Dads care was until I experienced treatment as a type 1.  They gave him the impression it wasn't much to be concerned about, until complications set in and then suddenly words like uncontrolled and non-compliant where used which implied he'd done something wrong.    When he died the consultant Endo was disgusted that he hadn't been put on insulin, but his care was GP led and would they know when to refer or switch to insulin?  It's still happening now of course, my cousin has just been diagnosed at 35 and has the impression it's no big deal.  I'm doing a bit of gentle nagging but it's not getting through.  Don't get me wrong I understand why he doesn't want to acknowledge how potentially serious it is, I just don't want him to turn around in ten years to complications that are irreversible.  I suppose the upside to insulin is that you are forced to be mindful that you are keeping yourself alive.

It's a constant worry when type 2 is in the family, but hopefully they'll work it out soon and everyone can get access to the best advice and care.  Of course Sod's law it turns out my family history of type 2 wasn't the big risk for me it's our love affair with autoimmune disorders which I didn't even consider


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## Bloden (Jun 6, 2014)

Andy HB said:


> I wouldn't!
> 
> But then, my care was excellent, I was given a BG meter and up to now I have remained diet and exercise only after losing the weight and improving my lifestyle.
> 
> Andy HB



Good for you!


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## yorksman (Jun 6, 2014)

It was good to see Roy Taylor and his research, not so good to see the kids from Playschool though. Whilst Taylor stressed early diagnosis and substantial weight loss, the programme had to go on about the severe diet which Taylor explains is not actually necessary. Any regime which results in a substantial weight loss is acceptable and should be one which can be maintained. They simply have to make these programmes sensational in some way, as if they think the audience cannot understand an adult explanation.

Watch what you eat, lose weight, take daily exercise of some sort, start now. It's not that hard to understand. The only questions are really what should we be eating and how much exercise should we be doing.

The nutritionist on the Desmond course said that they don't tell us what to eat and my DN told me to be very careful about taking exercise. She even told me not to worry about my BG levels unless they got to around 15. Is it any wonder people get diabetic complications?


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## Pine Marten (Jun 6, 2014)

Blimey, I came on here to see if there was a thread but didn't expect 4 pages! I was out so I recorded it - I might watch it now and gnash my teeth/shout at the telly


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## Pine Marten (Jun 6, 2014)

Well, that wasn't too bad, though I didn't like the shock!horror! opening, and having only half hour to get the message over it was rather simplistic. At least they did talk about family history, ethnicity, and so on, so it was fairly balanced on the whole. But I did grimace at the schoolkids sequence, which wasn't all that explanatory - and there were a number of fat kids there, which rather ruined the point!

The advice of yorksman above sounds good to me: 'Watch what you eat, lose weight, take daily exercise of some sort, start now.' Amen!


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## Pine Marten (Jun 6, 2014)

PS. I should take the advice - before lunch today my reading was 4.8; 2 hours after lunch (which included a choc brioche  ) it was 8.8; then after my workout it went down to 4.2! Ah, no more brioches for me...


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## MargB (Jun 6, 2014)

I watched the recording this afternoon and thought it was not too bad.

Have not read all the posts but it was interesting to hear that if you can try and sort things out within the first 4 years there is a chance of reversing T2.  Before this year I always thought it was totally, not for discussion, irreversable.


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## Andy HB (Jun 7, 2014)

MargB said:


> Have not read all the posts but it was interesting to hear that if you can try and sort things out within the first 4 years there is a chance of reversing T2.  Before this year I always thought it was totally, not for discussion, irreversable.



I would always err on the side of caution and say that the symptoms of type 2 diabetes are reversible rather than the condition itself.

I am loath to test the following theory out, but if I put the weight back on, I am pretty certain that my symptoms would re-establish themselves.

I also have to wait and see whether my symptoms steadily get worse over time or not. I'll let everyone know when I'm 80!

But, hopefully by then, type 2 and type 1 diabetes will be conditions of the past?!

Andy


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## Northerner (Jun 7, 2014)

Precisely Andy, I wish they would use more appropriate language. Many people, like yourself, can achieve good control  without medication through diet and lifestyle changes, but it's not just a case of making a bit of an effort for a few weeks and you're cured - you have to stick with the program if you don't want those symptoms to return. The implication is often that T2 is completely curable, and many HCPs make things worse by inferring (or even stating) that, which is very misleading and gives a false impression of the seriousness of the condition.

I've often wondered just how many of the 3m people in this country with diabetes actually understand it  I would wager it's only a small proportion


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## KookyCat (Jun 7, 2014)

Andy HB said:


> I would always err on the side of caution and say that the symptoms of type 2 diabetes are reversible rather than the condition itself.
> 
> I am loath to test the following theory out, but if I put the weight back on, I am pretty certain that my symptoms would re-establish themselves.
> 
> ...



I suspect you've hit the nail on the head there.  Of the initial 8 test participants, 7 kept their weight stable and have remained symptom free with the levels of a non-diabetic, but one regained some weight and symptoms have recurred.  That's why I was a bit disappointed they didn't go into more detail, because the prof in charge of the research is really clear that if predisposed to lay fat cells down in that area, you remain disposed so any increase in weight could bring symptoms back.  I feel they should talk about remission maybe.  Although when I went to the seminar about this research there was a chap there talking about liposuction being used to remove the fat calls in the danger area, it was a very odd ten minutes that


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## yorksman (Jun 10, 2014)

Pine Marten said:


> Ah, no more brioches for me...





I loved all that soft, sweet, doughy stuff but it had to go. It's been replaced by chewy, crunchy, sharper tastes. I even pickle my own onions, a nice sharp cheddar and a hard crispbread like Peter's Yard or Finncrisp. Retraining your palette though can be great fun.


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## yorksman (Jun 10, 2014)

Andy HB said:


> I would always err on the side of caution and say that the symptoms of type 2 diabetes are reversible rather than the condition itself.
> 
> I am loath to test the following theory out, but if I put the weight back on, I am pretty certain that my symptoms would re-establish themselves.



They will yes and will also do it at an earlier 'tipping point' than the first time around.

By reversible, what Taylor meant was that the 'inevitable progression of the disease' could be reversed. But, there is stilll damage to the beta cells and sadly, we never know exactly how much damage has been done.  The breakthrough with the research is the finding that beta cells are not either dead or alive as previously thought but some are in an inbetween 'metabolically inhibited' stage and it is these that are brought back to functionality with the weight loss. The aim of the new imaging techniques is to determine the relative proportions of live cells, dead cells and metabolically inhibited cells and get 'before and after' images.

But your dead cells are dead, they won't be resurrected, so look after what you've got left.


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