# Timesulin - dose timing memory for pens



## everydayupsanddowns (Sep 15, 2011)

Just came across  'Timesulin', which is a replacement cap for insulin pens which records the amount of time that has passed since the last injection.

As a person who actually changed insulins to get a 'memoir' pen with a dose memory this simple solution to part of the problem ("Hang on... have I injected or not...") appeals to me.

http://timesulin.com/

You get the right cap to fit your existing pen. When you remove the pen cap to inject the timer resets to zero and begins to count up again. So by looking at the pen lid you can tell how many hours (or minutes) have passed since you last injected. Cleverly if you pop the pen lid off to check how much insulin is still in the cartridge (or whatever) the timer keeps counting. It only resets the timer if the cap stays off the pen for more than 8 seconds.

Has anyone used them? Are they any good?


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## Caroline (Sep 15, 2011)

DOn't need them, but they sound like a terriffic idea


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## Copepod (Sep 15, 2011)

Not on sale yet....


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## everydayupsanddowns (Sep 15, 2011)

And currently only available for Kwikpen?, Flexpen?, Solostar?

Sigh! I knew it was too good to be true!

M


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## teapot8910 (Sep 15, 2011)

There's a lady on Twitter (@susanmoolman) who I've seen e-mailing people more details about Timesulin. Apparently a top D educator has been given the first one


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## Natalie123 (Sep 15, 2011)

Sounds like a good idea, and I have a solostar. But the biggest problem for me is remembering how much I have taken rather than whether I have taken it.


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## squidge63 (Sep 15, 2011)

I like the idea and my Novorapid in a flexpen, also since my stroke I have got my Levemir changed to the flexpen, as I was having problems getting the refill out. Only the other day I wondered if I had given my insulin...


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## susanmoolman (Sep 26, 2011)

*Timesulin*

Hey guys - 

I am @susanmoolman on Twitter (thanks for the mention, teapot 8910) and just picked up on this thread. Thanks to Mike for bringing word of Timesulin here. 

To answer your questions, Timesulin will be available for sale from mid November 2011 via our website (www.timesulin.com) and we are already in talks with distributors across the UK, Sweden, Germany and South Africa as well as in China.

The response has been overwhelming from nurses, doctors and people living with diabetes alike. Timesulin offers a simple, affordable solution to ease daily anxiety for people who have become so used to taking a number of shots a day.

I agree with the fact that adding additional data, like memory functions, dosing information and alarms is useful for some with diabetes. What our research has shown, though, is that what people really need is just to make their lives a little easier each and every single day. 

Additionally, some inside information for diabetes-support - we have carefully looked at how people interact with technology and time and time again we find that the more complicated a product becomes, the more features it has, the less usable it becomes. Our idea is to keep it so simple that it requires no change in routine.

If you'd like to receive direct information as soon as the product becomes available, please sign up to be alerted here: http://timesulin.com/contact-us. (We promise not to spam you!) and follow Timesulin on Twitter (@timesulin) and Facebook (/timesulin)

Please keep spreading the word - and feel free to email / tweet me if you have any questions.
Susan


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## susanmoolman (Sep 26, 2011)

Hey Mike!

Timesulin currently works with the following pens:
Lilly Kwikpen?
Humalog
Humalog Mix 75/25
Humalog 50/50

Novo Nordisk Flexpen?
Levemir
Novolog
Novolog Mix 70/30
Victoza?

Lantus Solostar?
Solostar
Apidra

Hope this helps a bit!


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## teapot8910 (Sep 26, 2011)

Hi Susan

Thank you for the information  Are there any plans for Timesulin to be used in conjunction with other types of pen?

Mine is the NovoRapid Flex Pen and this product would help a lot!

Many thanks x


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## Steff (Sep 26, 2011)

Hi Susan welcome along to the forum lovely of you to pop in and introduce yourself, I notice it will be compatible with Victoza which sounds good as thats what im currently taking.I will look out with interest for this and good luck.Ive filled in the contact us page so hope to recieve info when its ready x


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## Robster65 (Sep 26, 2011)

One problem for me would be the pen not fitting back in the case once the gadget is fitted.

And of course, price would be a decider too. Especially when the standard package is 2 caps, which for me would mean one was wasted.

But a step in the right direction.

Rob


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## everydayupsanddowns (Sep 26, 2011)

teapot8910 said:


> Mine is the NovoRapid Flex Pen and this product would help a lot!



Emma - I'm pretty sure the Flexpen mentioned will fit UK NovoRapid ones (NovoLog is the US brand name for NovoRapid as far as I know)




Robster65 said:


> One problem for me would be the pen not fitting back in the case once the gadget is fitted.
> 
> And of course, price would be a decider too. Especially when the standard package is 2 caps, which for me would mean one was wasted.




I'm not sure what the battery life is meant to be Rob, but as long as they have some sort of 'tab' slide out thing to start the cap off I'd imagine you'd just have a spare for when the first one runs out (guessing that the batteries are prob non-replaceable).

My memoir was supposed to be good for 3 years - and I'm already about half way through that.

Your point about fitting into existing pen cases is a really good one though. I hadn't thought of that (Memoir case failed after 12 months so I've been doing without since)

Maybe Susan could confirm?


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## susanmoolman (Sep 26, 2011)

teapot8910 said:


> Hi Susan
> 
> Thank you for the information  Are there any plans for Timesulin to be used in conjunction with other types of pen?
> 
> ...


Emma - you are in luck:

We just did a bit of testing and Timesulin works with Novorapid! 

(Now I'm off to add it to the website so other people know this as well...)


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## susanmoolman (Sep 26, 2011)

Robster65 said:


> One problem for me would be the pen not fitting back in the case once the gadget is fitted.
> 
> And of course, price would be a decider too. Especially when the standard package is 2 caps, which for me would mean one was wasted.
> 
> ...



Hey Rob - 

The cost for a two-pack will be around ?29. And seeing as each battery is good for about a year, it shouldn't set you back too much.

Each cap has a little protective film, which you remove prior to use, so the cap should stay 'fresh' until you use it.


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## susanmoolman (Sep 26, 2011)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Your point about fitting into existing pen cases is a really good one though. I hadn't thought of that (Memoir case failed after 12 months so I've been doing without since)
> 
> Maybe Susan could confirm?



Mmmm...which case do you use, Rob? 

We did try to minimise bulk as much as we could, but it is a tad bulkier than the standard cap. 

Small price to pay for never having to 'wonder' again, though, right?


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## Robster65 (Sep 26, 2011)

Thanks for clearing that up Susan and Mike.

I'm afraid I wouldn't want to spend ?58 for both pens, even for 2+ years. If it were replaceable batteries it wouldn't be quite so bad, but its basically a disposable item.

Rob


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## Robster65 (Sep 26, 2011)

susanmoolman said:


> Mmmm...which case do you use, Rob?
> 
> We did try to minimise bulk as much as we could, but it is a tad bulkier than the standard cap.
> 
> Small price to pay for never having to 'wonder' again, though, right?


 
I've got the humapen Luxura (and the lantus solostar).

I use the case for the pen and 3 needles, which keeps all I need in 1 place, safe and secure. 

For the solostar, I use my old Ergo case. 

Rob


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## susanmoolman (Sep 26, 2011)

Robster65 said:


> Thanks for clearing that up Susan and Mike.
> 
> I'm afraid I wouldn't want to spend ?58 for both pens, even for 2+ years. If it were replaceable batteries it wouldn't be quite so bad, but its basically a disposable item.
> 
> Rob



We're hoping over time to be able to bring down the price. 

But in the meantime, here's another way to look at it: 
Per month it's less than ?2.50 per pen (and you get two caps for that - one for your pen at home, and one for the office). This is roughly what I spend in London on two cans of Diet Coke... And the ease of mind it brings is MUCH more than what those silly cans of Coke give, right?


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## Robster65 (Sep 26, 2011)

susanmoolman said:


> We're hoping over time to be able to bring down the price.
> 
> But in the meantime, here's another way to look at it:
> Per month it's less than ?2.50 per pen (and you get two caps for that - one for your pen at home, and one for the office). This is roughly what I spend in London on two cans of Diet Coke... And the ease of mind it brings is MUCH more than what those silly cans of Coke give, right?


 
That's one reason why I don't live anywhere near London anymore ! 

I like the concept and it's clearly been given a lot of thought, but for me it's not justifiable. I'd miss the thrill of that cold feeling when you wonder if you have or haven't ! 

Rob


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## susanmoolman (Sep 26, 2011)

Robster65 said:


> I'd miss the thrill of that cold feeling when you wonder if you have or haven't !
> 
> Rob



Rob, you clearly like living on the edge!  

Personally, I prefer getting my rush from other (somewhat safer) options!


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## heasandford (Sep 26, 2011)

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE can you add other pens - I vote for NovoPen 3 or 4!!!!


susanmoolman said:


> Hey guys -
> 
> I am @susanmoolman on Twitter (thanks for the mention, teapot 8910) and just picked up on this thread. Thanks to Mike for bringing word of Timesulin here.
> 
> ...


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## rossi_mac (Sep 26, 2011)

Memory help, yes please! Although half the time I don't put the lid back on, so probably not gonna work for me, but bring it on, I hope it's not too cost prohibitive, and helps a lot of folk


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## spomeroy (Oct 24, 2011)

*Timesulin costs/other pens*

I'd much prefer a Novopen version rather than having to change over to Flexpens - it seems a shame to throw away the whole thing just to get a full cartridge.

The cost does seem a bit of a discouragement too - although I'll buy them anyway despite the drawbacks. Forgetting if I've had my fix is the biggest problem I have. This way I can stay on the insulin brand I know and understand.

The reason for the high initial cost is presumably that there's no ongoing sale of consumables to support giving them away like meters or pens.

Possible ways of getting the cost down might include:
sponsored branding from the drug companies for each of the pen types
licensing the technology(I presume your patents are good)
persuading NICE that they are so essential for forgetful bozos like me to improve our control that they should be available on prescription​
I wish you every success

Simon


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## Robster65 (Oct 24, 2011)

Hi Simon. Welcome to the forum.

Would you like to create a thread in the Newbies section http://www.diabetessupport.co.uk/boards/forumdisplay.php?f=12 and tell us a bit about yourself.

Always good to get a fresh perspective.

Rob


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## Kwaka1 (Oct 24, 2011)

Hi all,
Never joined this forum, but have been 'lurking' since its inception. I feel though that it's now time to join and add my 'twopenneth' as it were.
There is some very good pitching going on here, but the closing will be extremely difficult due to the price being prohibitive for what is essentially a digital clock on a stick. I'll do my best Dragon impression and say that "I'm out".
I'll now go and introduce myself properly on the newbies section, sorry for giving my opinion first.


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## Phil65 (Oct 25, 2011)

I think it's a great idea, lost count of how many times I injected......or did I? .....not needed now as I have a pump though, if I were still on MDI I would definitely use these!


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## Steff (Feb 6, 2012)

Gone on sale today Are they really ?32?


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## susanmoolman (Feb 6, 2012)

spomeroy said:


> I'd much prefer a Novopen version rather than having to change over to Flexpens - it seems a shame to throw away the whole thing just to get a full cartridge.
> 
> The cost does seem a bit of a discouragement too - although I'll buy them anyway despite the drawbacks. Forgetting if I've had my fix is the biggest problem I have. This way I can stay on the insulin brand I know and understand.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the words of support, Simon! We are considering all of the options you are addressing, but what we're learning is that things take much longer for bigger corporations than it does for us small ones. (We tend to move at a bit of a quicker pace than the others!)

Will keep you posted as we progress.


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## susanmoolman (Feb 6, 2012)

Steff said:


> Gone on sale today Are they really ?32?


Hey Steff -

Yep, they are. Well, actually, they're ?25, but then VAT adds another chunk on top. Considering the many versions of the cap we've gone through, the many, many hours of top engineers required to design something that is simple enough for everyone to use - and understand without having to study an instruction manual - yet work like clockwork without any hiccups...it all adds up.

Some aspects to consider:
* We've used antibacterial plastic to ensure safety
* The battery on each cap will last for more than a year with continuous use - as soon as you replace your pen, pop your Timesulin cap on the new pen
* Peace of mind...never having to worry again!

I hope you guys will continue to support and discuss Timesulin - we're also on Facebook, Twitter and the Timesulin blog.

xxx


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## Copepod (Feb 6, 2012)

I can understand the basic cost of ?25, but why VAT?!? They are products designed soley for use by people with long term medical conditions. 

Surely you (company that makes Timesulin) can argue with HMRC that people with diabetes should NOT have to pay VAT if they chose to buy and use this product, because they have had problems caused by forgetting / omitting doses / overdosing?


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## Steff (Feb 6, 2012)

susanmoolman said:


> Hey Steff -
> 
> Yep, they are. Well, actually, they're ?25, but then VAT adds another chunk on top. Considering the many versions of the cap we've gone through, the many, many hours of top engineers required to design something that is simple enough for everyone to use - and understand without having to study an instruction manual - yet work like clockwork without any hiccups...it all adds up.
> 
> ...


Hay Susan 
Thanks for gettin back,I was interested back when  you first introduced this as I was on Victoza and forget many times to inject but now I'm off meds so don't need it but if I ever have to go back on then I will bare this in mind


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## Phil65 (Feb 6, 2012)

susanmoolman said:


> Hey Steff -
> 
> Yep, they are. Well, actually, they're ?25, but then VAT adds another chunk on top. Considering the many versions of the cap we've gone through, the many, many hours of top engineers required to design something that is simple enough for everyone to use - and understand without having to study an instruction manual - yet work like clockwork without any hiccups...it all adds up.
> 
> ...



......It's a great idea but very pricey for such a simple accessory....I wonder if they would be available on prescription?....especially for diabetics with memory problems


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## everydayupsanddowns (Feb 6, 2012)

Copepod said:


> I can understand the basic cost of ?25, but why VAT?!? They are products designed soley for use by people with long term medical conditions.
> 
> Surely you (company that makes Timesulin) can argue with HMRC that people with diabetes should NOT have to pay VAT if they chose to buy and use this product, because they have had problems caused by forgetting / omitting doses / overdosing?



I thought we diabolics didn't have to pay the VAT for medical gubbins? Isn't there a form for that sort of thing?


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## Copepod (Feb 6, 2012)

I've just checked Timesulin website http://timesulin.com/webshop - price quoted is 32 Euros, not ?32, or ?25 (with no mention of VAT) plus ?1.93 for postage & packing or free postage & packing for 2 or more caps. 

So, I think Patients Pending Ltd company needs to investigate VAT law in UK, if UK is truly a target market. VAT probably needs to be paid on postage & packing, but not on product itself. There's a drop down box on top right of webpage to select currency: GBP or EUR, so they have thought of that issue.


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## Lauren (Feb 6, 2012)

This sounds like a fantastic idea!!! I have a real fear of getting dementia or something when I am older and killing myself accidentally because I'll forget that I've already done an injection or something. It sounds morbid but I am honestly very scared that will happen to me. So this device sounds great! And I'm hoping by the time I'm elderly there'll be other things on the market too which will help Diabetic people with memory problems


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## Paul (Feb 6, 2012)

Subtotal:                        ?25.00
Shipping and handling:    ?1.95
Subtotal excluding taxes:?26.95
VAT:                              ?5.39
Order total:                    ?32.34

?5.39 VAT something is wrong there very wrong!


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## sjolundjohn (Feb 6, 2012)

*Questions about VAT*

Hey Guys,

Many thanks for all the interesting comments. It's the first day we have the shop open so working through all the quirks that we are finding as more and more people come on to order.

Firstly - oh how I wish we could avoid charging VAT on this, and how we have tried, but no luck with HMRC. Because it is an accessory to a medical device standard VAT applies. We have checked this with both our accountants AND HMRC, but if anybody can prove otherwise I would love it.

In terms of currency - it's ?25. When you first come to the site it shows EURO, just switch on the top right and you should be good to go.

I have been using the product for a few months now while we've been testing and developing and, due to my excitement at having a Timesulin solution every time I injected, it took a while before I actually forgot again. Boy, I sure was glad to have Timesulin around, though. Nothing worse than the hypo that comes from an accidental double dose. Timesulin may not be for everybody, but if you've ever wondered, hopefully you'll agree that it's worth less than ?2.50 a month to never worry about missing or double dosing again.

All comments and feedback are welcomed.
/John- Timesulin CEO and Type 1 for 26 years


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## susanmoolman (Feb 6, 2012)

Lauren said:


> This sounds like a fantastic idea!!! I have a real fear of getting dementia or something when I am older and killing myself accidentally because I'll forget that I've already done an injection or something. It sounds morbid but I am honestly very scared that will happen to me. So this device sounds great! And I'm hoping by the time I'm elderly there'll be other things on the market too which will help Diabetic people with memory problems


Hey Lauren - we're finding that this device is most handy for those of us who are still young and constantly on the go. It's aimed mostly at those times where you sit down at the dinner table, or get into bed, and go...Uh oh...Did I remember to take my shot, or didn't I? Because it's such a habit - four shots a day over many years...even the smartest among us will forget!

But the nice thing about Timesulin is that it is easy enough for anyone to use - young or old. Because you don't need any technical skill to program it. It just works.


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## margie (Feb 6, 2012)

Paul said:


> Subtotal:                        ?25.00
> Shipping and handling:    ?1.95
> Subtotal excluding taxes:?26.95
> VAT:                              ?5.39
> ...



5.39 is the correct amount of VAT if all items are VAT rateable at 20%

Postage is a funny one and the HMRC page is a bit confusing

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...HMCE_CL_000114&propertyType=document#P34_2182


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## susanmoolman (Feb 6, 2012)

Perhaps someone from HMRC will stumble across this and offer us the golden solution...we've tried and tried to get it tax exempt.

But we'll continue trying, for sure!


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## Robster65 (Feb 6, 2012)

susanmoolman said:


> Perhaps someone from HMRC will stumble across this and offer us the golden solution...we've tried and tried to get it tax exempt.
> 
> But we'll continue trying, for sure!


 
I think they need all the money they can get right now !

Rob


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## rossi_mac (Feb 6, 2012)

Hurrah! 

I saw this thread and then noticed I had commented previously, perhaps I do need help with my memory after all!!

Well I will have to think about it as it is a chunk of money at one go. 

I can understand that if it is an accessory or aid they will not give it a discounted rate, not saying it's right though!

Okay just going to check they would fit on my novo pen 4 and then check with the banker...

Cheers

Rossi


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## susanmoolman (Feb 6, 2012)

Well Rossi - you are listed as a *senior* member...! 

Currently, Timesulin caps are compatible with the following pens: http://timesulin.com/how-it-works/pens

*Timesulin for the Novo Nordisk Flexpen
*Novolog
Novorapid
Novolog Mix 70/30
Levemir
Protaphane HM (ge)
Victoza

*Timesulin for Solostar*
Apidra
Lantus

*Timesulin for Kwikpen*
Humalog
Humalog 50/50
Humalog 75/25

We're already in production for others (like your Novo Pen 4), so watch this space!


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## everydayupsanddowns (Feb 6, 2012)

Looks like there may be alternative products available in the near-ish future too: http://www.arborealtech.com/insulcheck/products/default.html


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## PhilT (Feb 6, 2012)

With regard to VAT relief for disabled people, see paragraphs 3.2 & 4.8 at the link below.

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...HMCE_CL_000184&propertyType=document#P41_2436

As Timesulin caps are an accessary to an item(Insulin Pen) that is already eligible for VAT relief then the Timesulin caps are eligible for relief also.


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## teapot8910 (Feb 11, 2012)

Susan has very kindly sent me two Timesulin caps for my pens in order for me to try and review 

I'm going to start using them tomorrow, so will let you know how I get on!


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## Steff (Feb 11, 2012)

teapot8910 said:


> Susan has very kindly sent me two Timesulin caps for my pens in order for me to try and review
> 
> I'm going to start using them tomorrow, so will let you know how I get on!



Wow how where you chosen for that?

Hope there good Emma


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## martindt1606 (Feb 11, 2012)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Looks like there may be alternative products available in the near-ish future too: http://www.arborealtech.com/insulcheck/products/default.html



Its good that there will be some competition - hopefully will result in a price war.

At the moment I think ?50 (with or without VAT) is excessive to cover both pens.  

So far getting one needle out of the draw / bag before I test my blood seems to work fine.


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## RachelT (Feb 11, 2012)

Whow, a patient of mine was telling me about this on Friday and i thought i'd look into it, since it sounded useful (not for me as yet, i'm still on tablets). She was struggling a little with buying over the internet as she said she wasn't very technically minded. I'll pass on the info if she's still there on Monday, and thinking about it won't be, but next time somebody asks me about them i'll know.


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## Multicat (Feb 11, 2012)

Hi susanmoolman I know you mentioned young people on the go, but us retired people live busy lives as well. I would love to be able to have one of these I have memory problems due to kidney failure at 12 yrs old.
I have been diabetic since my tx & remembering is an increasing problem, so this could well be on my birthday list. Regards


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## teapot8910 (Feb 11, 2012)

I'm going to start using them tomorrow (making sure I know how it works beforehand! ) and will let you guys know how it goes. If anyone would like a leaflet on Timesulin, I received a few today along with my caps so PM me your address and I'll send you one


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## susanmoolman (Feb 13, 2012)

RachelT said:


> Whow, a patient of mine was telling me about this on Friday and i thought i'd look into it, since it sounded useful (not for me as yet, i'm still on tablets). She was struggling a little with buying over the internet as she said she wasn't very technically minded. I'll pass on the info if she's still there on Monday, and thinking about it won't be, but next time somebody asks me about them i'll know.


Hey Rachel - thanks for looking into Timesulin. If your patient has trouble buying over the internet, have her send an email (with her phone number) to support@timesulin.com and one of our customer service people will call her and talk her through it.

Thanks for the support!


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## susanmoolman (Feb 13, 2012)

Multicat said:


> Hi susanmoolman I know you mentioned young people on the go, but us retired people live busy lives as well. I would love to be able to have one of these I have memory problems due to kidney failure at 12 yrs old.
> I have been diabetic since my tx & remembering is an increasing problem, so this could well be on my birthday list. Regards


Hey Multicat - I think the Timesulin user has no age limit (up or down!). We all lead such hectic lives that something as routine and habitual as one of your four daily injections just fades into the background - as it should. The problem comes in when you are unsure of whether or not you took your shot - then it absorbs way too much energy...which could be spent on something else. Change that, which SHOULD be spent on something else. That's what Timesulin aims to address.


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## Steff (Feb 23, 2012)

Heya, 

How are things going with the caps are they selling well?

Natalie how are you getting on with them


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## susanmoolman (Feb 23, 2012)

Steff said:


> Heya,
> 
> How are things going with the caps are they selling well?
> 
> Natalie how are you getting on with them


Hey Steff - they're selling like hot cakes! And the feedback is so fab...we just got included in at home: Ask the Doctor today (http://timesulin.com/blog/timesulin-in-the-news/at-home-ask-the-doctor/) 

Every little helps us spread the word and help more people with diabetes live a better life.


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## Steff (Feb 23, 2012)

susanmoolman said:


> Hey Steff - they're selling like hot cakes! And the feedback is so fab...we just got included in at home: Ask the Doctor today (http://timesulin.com/blog/timesulin-in-the-news/at-home-ask-the-doctor/)
> 
> Every little helps us spread the word and help more people with diabetes live a better life.



Susan thats just brillaint, I almost want to tell my doctor i wanna go back on Victoza just so i can buy some (only joking of course)


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## Steff (Feb 28, 2012)

Ahh ive spotted Teapots blog about timesulin wow very positive .


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## susanmoolman (Feb 28, 2012)

Teapot is the best! x


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## Kwaka1 (Feb 28, 2012)

Looks like a reasonable product, but then so does AstroTurf.


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