# Why do diabetics not take things seriously?



## Ipsi (Jun 21, 2017)

I've been diagnosed diabetic for five years.  My hba1c came in at 55 and the docs wanted to put me on a ton of tablets.  I wasn't having any of it so I cut out all crap from my diet and started exercising way more.  Two years later my hba1c was 46, with a two stone loss of weight but a muscle gain of a stone, so three stone of fat lost.  I was happily diet controlling.  Then, suddenly, my hba1c was 88!  So I bit the bullet and am on meds (metformin &, for a little while, now stopped, glyclazide).  I stepped up the exercise even more and I'm now at an hba1c of 42, just two months after being 88, & still dropping. 
The point I'd like to make is:  I keep seeing diabetics whingeing about wanting  biscuit or a choc ice or some jam or any other kind of psychologically addictive crap they have stuck in their heads.  I used to eat loads of crap foods.  For five years I have eaten NONE - except for one jelly baby that my granddaughter gave me two Christmases ago.  Diabetes is a serious condition: just grow up and completely cut out the foods you know you shouldn't eat, COMPLETELY, and GET MORE EXERCISE!  It's that easy.  Even doing everything right, diabetes can still come back and bite you and I, for one, don't want to go blind, have renal failure or lose extremities because I think a hob-nob is more important than my long term health.
Everyone's diabetes manifests a little differently - whatever I do, I can't get my BG below 8 when I wake up.  It then (usually) gradually drops to around 6, or just under by the time I go to bed.  But I know if I eat unnecessary sugar or simple carbs it will not be that low and could be 10 in the morning...    ...so I don't eat sugars or simple carbs.  Fresh veg, fruit, nuts & plenty of meat.  That's all you need.  I've literally heard diabetics tell me that they "can't live without a biscuit"...   ...I can't print what I want to say to them, what I do say is to grow up.  Stamping your feet because you can't have a biscuit when you're five is understandable.  Doing the same thing at fifty is, frankly, pathetic.


----------



## grovesy (Jun 21, 2017)

Welcome.


----------



## Stitch147 (Jun 21, 2017)

Hi and welcome to the forum.


----------



## Lindarose (Jun 21, 2017)

Welcome Ipsy. What an attitude to kick off with!
You sound extremely virtuous and well done to you.
Sadly everyone on here isn't able to exercise more and we don't all have your amazing willpower either. 
Some of us struggle for all sorts of reasons. This forum is to help us all not make us feel guilty because we don't find it as easy as you!


----------



## Amigo (Jun 21, 2017)

Of course that's the attitude everyone ideally should have in an ideal world Ipsy but then real life and the real world intervenes. There are 'unwise' temptations everywhere and they taste damm good too! I incorporate some treats into my diet but now it's by choice and calculation. My last Hba1c was 40 without meds. Some days I struggle and some days I want to feel like everyone else and share a piece of cake with a friend. There's psychological drivers at work too. Exercise is hard when you have other physical disabilities and many people on here have additional health issues that impact on their fitness and emotional well being.

You keep doing what works for you but please be wary of criticising those who struggle. The diabetics who deny by choice or couldn't care less are a different matter and there's plenty of those about.


----------



## Lucy Honeychurch (Jun 21, 2017)

Some of us have type 1, which is an autoimmune condition and not at all linked to lifestyle, weight, food etc. As pointed out above, some people have mobility issues and multiple conditions. Victim blaming isn't what this site is about.


----------



## Ipsi (Jun 21, 2017)

Who said it was easy?  There's a difference between easy and necessary.  That said, I take your point that many people might not be able to take responsibility for their own condition as easily.  My own experience as a newly diagnosed diabetic was that information was sparse from health professionals, with no depth of explanation and a frequent dumbing down to the point of being inaccurate or misleading.  I was aware how serious a disease diabetes could be, so I did my own research (still on-going after 5 years).  Back then (I don't know if they still happen) there was a kind of diabetes induction "course" held by the local NHS Trust for newly diagnosed diabetics.  I was disgusted by the flagrant infantilising by the people who ran the course of those of us taking it and determined that I would make sure I was knowledgeable enough to manage my own condition.  I have always encouraged other diabetics to do the same.  Sometimes we are given excellent advice by healthcare professionals and, sometimes, frankly, we're not.  The only way to combat that is to be very aware of and, as much as you can be, in control of your condition.  Sites like this, although I'm new here and haven't explored much, must be extremely helpful to many people in that regard.  It does take effort and it does take you out of your comfort zone but taking responsibility for your own situation starts with as close to full understanding of it as you can and, whilst I could be construed as being harsh, it's with the best of intents, i.e. to get diabetics to do what is necessary to properly manage their condition.  Everyone's diabetes manifests a little differently but, seriously, it is universally true that NO BISCUITS is good advice.  Incidentally, I'm saying nothing about type I, as I don't have it and haven't spent a tenth of the time investigating it.  Everything I say relates to type II.


----------



## Northerner (Jun 21, 2017)

Ipsi said:


> Sites like this, although I'm new here and haven't explored much, must be extremely helpful to many people in that regard. It does take effort and it does take you out of your comfort zone but taking responsibility for your own situation starts with as close to full understanding of it as you can and, whilst I could be construed as being harsh, it's with the best of intents, i.e. to get diabetics to do what is necessary to properly manage their condition.


Welcome to the forum  The vast majority of people who seek out help, support and advice on a forum are highly-motivated to look after themselves, so I think you're probably addressing the wrong audience here. I'd also say that, whilst you may not be able to understand why anyone has problems when it is all clear and straightforward, trying to convince them using aggression and blame is probably not the most productive approach.


----------



## Pumper_Sue (Jun 21, 2017)

@Ipsi firstly welcome to the forum and secondly could you please split your posts into paragraphs as some people have problems reading a block of text. Thank you 

As to the bit I managed to read.......... bottom line we are all human thus we are not perfect. Diet we sort our own out to suit our own needs not anyone elses.

A sledge hammer is not needed on this forum


----------



## Ipsi (Jun 21, 2017)

OK.  To all who responded:

Points taken.

I get that sledgehammers may crack nuts but I was nuts to start off with one.  I've been frustrated by friends and family that are diabetic and telling me that I can eat whatever I like etc. and then wonder why they can't manage their condition.  As you can probably imagine from my first post I come from a very recalcitrant family.

I also accept that a bit of investigation of the site first may well have led me to the fairly obvious conclusion (in hindsight) that the kind of person who doesn't even attempt to manage their diabetes is unlikely to be on this forum.

I will state, however, that I wasn't blaming anyone for their condition, or for their inability to manage it.  In the five years I've been researching I have come to a complete rejection of the idea that diabetes is caused by lifestyle (given all the societal & genetic factors involved) and take great offence at healthcare professionals who attempt to promulgate that viewpoint - especially, as happened to me, from a doctor who is herself obese.   In fact, I pointed out in my first post, that my hba1c shot up to 88 despite my best efforts.

It's not blame I'm pushing but increased knowledge and awareness.

Neither am I aggressive.  If you met me you'd agree, but my typing style often comes across that way - English lessons to moderate it would be appreciated since I seem unable to.

I still say that NO BISCUITS is the only viable option though.


----------



## Stitch147 (Jun 21, 2017)

I still eat the occasional biscuit, the occasional bit of chocolate and have the occasional treat. Theres a word there that goes a long way, occasional. I keep a food diary and my Dr looks at this when I visit for my diabetes check ups and is happy with what and how much I am eating. I take my diabetes very seriously, but at the end of the day I am a human being that enjoys the occasional biscuit!


----------



## MikeTurin (Jun 21, 2017)

Stitch147 said:


> I still eat the occasional biscuit, the occasional bit of chocolate and have the occasional treat. Theres a word there that goes a long way, occasional. I keep a food diary and my Dr looks at this when I visit for my diabetes check ups and is happy with what and how much I am eating. I take my diabetes very seriously, but at the end of the day I am a human being that enjoys the occasional biscuit!


I am human too, I am not God. I have slip ups make mistake, sometimes I got stressed and I overeat.
I control my weight and measure my BG and take my meds and try to have physical activity.
The net result is that I can donate blood even if I have T2 diabetes.

I know that there are people with diabetes that are in denial or worse got wrong or insufficient information from their GP.
My former GP didn't warned me about the borderline blood exams and the risks of diabetes or prediabetes. He gave me statins, but If I followed the information i got from my GP and Diabetic specilist, instead to dig in libraries and websites I suppose that my mismanagement instead of a tiny slip-up every now and then would be way higher.


----------



## Bloden (Jun 21, 2017)

My BIL has been T2 for about 15 years now and says: "I don't eat vegetables". He's a very large man (I have no idea what his control is like, it's none of my business), but that statement does make him come across a bit five-year-old...but if you scratch the surface, it turns out he was brought up in a children's home until about age 10, and if he didn't eat his veg it was there on his plate (the same veg from the day before) the next day and the next day and the next day - until it was oozing and begging to be put in the bin - until he ate it. No love, no understanding, just pig-headed nastiness. So no wonder he hates veg!! Unfortunately, what you see isn't what you get, ipsi.

Welcome, by the way!

PS you've got us all thinking about biscuits now!


----------



## novorapidboi26 (Jun 21, 2017)

Quality of Life vs Great BG Control............discuss....


----------



## trophywench (Jun 21, 2017)

There's a well known Australian, Type 2 blogger whose strap line is 'Everything in moderation - except laughter!' - and nobody on this forum would disagree with Alan.  You are as you say - whingeing about it to the converted.

However - we have shedloads of people who come on here for the first time immediately after receiving the diagnosis.  These folk haven't been told a lot and don't know where to look to find out - an awful lot of people erroneously assume their GP surgery will tell them exactly what they need to do for the simple reason that is exactly what happens with almost every other condition or disease anyone ever had.

Just tell me - honestly at this exact moment as soon as you read this question - what your last PSA test result was? - and when you do I'll explain why I'm asking you!


----------



## Flower (Jun 21, 2017)

Welcome Ipsi 

Food choices, diet choices , overeating, under eating, comfort eating etc are such complex mental decisions influenced by a myriad of conflicting personal battles. Add diabetes - of which ever type - to that mix and you are pulled every which way to make informed, sustainable choices in what you eat. That's not to say people are not taking their diabetes seriously. You have to find a sustainable path for the diabetes marathon. People make all sorts of decisions about what they choose to eat knowing the potential consequences of their actions. As someone who has lived with diabetes and an eating disorder I know the turmoil I still go through daily to make workable choices for my well being. The sensible gremlin sits on one shoulder and I have to try and make sure it shouts louder than the gremlin on the other shoulder.

We all know what the text books say about complications and how to avoid them but implementing a plan for the long term based around the basic necessity of food throws up massive challenges and issues.


----------



## Ipsi (Jun 21, 2017)

OK Everyone, I get it!  I'm a horribly in your face, no-nonsense type who isn't allowing for other problems that people face, beyond their diabetes...   ...I'll be more compassionate in future posts.

I have to pint out, though, that it's not as though I've had no problems prior to becoming diabetic, and they may well have contributed.  I had a pretty bad back injury quite a few years back and couldn't stand for more than a minute or so for two years afterwards.  It took me three and a half years to get myself (with a lot of hard work) back to a point where I could do half a day's voluntary work and another year to get back into part time work.  Eventually I went full time and have had to exercise to keep my back fit ever since.  To be honest, I thought, given what I'd been through previously, controlling diabetes would be a walk in the park.  I was wrong.  It is hard, I can't deny that.  What I hadn't considered, and now do, is that it might actually be even harder for others.

What has been rankling me for the last five years is the number of diabetics I know that make no effort but still complain...   ...I do get that they don't seem to live in this forum.

trophywench: To the best of my knowledge I've never had a prostate antigen test - which is the only PSA test I've heard of.  That said, presuming I did have any prostate problems, I'm entirely un-symptomatic.


----------



## Steff (Jun 21, 2017)

Hi a tentitive welcome ipsi . Id say change the thread title to SOME diabetics as some of us take it very serious


----------



## Bloden (Jun 21, 2017)

novorapidboi26 said:


> Quality of Life vs Great BG Control............discuss....


OMG, my life in a nutshell, novorapidboi26.


----------



## trophywench (Jun 21, 2017)

Ipsi said:


> trophywench: To the best of my knowledge I've never had a prostate antigen test - which is the only PSA test I've heard of.  That said, presuming I did have any prostate problems, I'm entirely un-symptomatic.



Which is precisely why so many many blokes in the UK die of undiagnosed prostate cancer - because they didn't have symptoms and have not bothered to research the condition which wipes out so many of them every single year.  Clearly you aren't very pro-active yourself with that very very common cancer - so why expect anyone else to be pro-active about anything else!

Which is my point.  People generally of both sexes walk round with their heads in the sand quite a lot with all sorts of things and not only health!

I would like it a lot if you did read about prostate cancer - and then go and get that blood test - which I hope comes back to say you most likely don't have a problem - but it has then established a reasonable level for yours and thus when you next get it checked again (cos you'll have to instigate that yourself as well, the NHS won't) you and your GP will know straight away whether there's a change that raises a query - even though you still have no symptoms!


----------



## Ditto (Jun 21, 2017)

I don't like biscuits, I like spuds. ::cries::


----------



## Ipsi (Jun 22, 2017)

Ditto xxoo:  I had problems with potatoes too.  I sympathise.  No chips for five years!  What's worse, no chip butties for five years!  I have conditioned myself to see all "bad" foods (high glycaemic load) as being poisonous for me.  It helps me say no but it doesn't take away the occasional wanting.  Frankly, it was easier to give up smoking - haven't done that for five years either.

Steff:  I would change the thread title - now I know the site better (shouldn't have gone off half cocked, just presumed that most diabetics were like the ones I knew) - if I had the first clue how to do that.

trophywench:  Here's the rub: I'm pretty well up on the condition and other forms of cancer; before I had my back injury I was a nurse and worked mostly in oncology, also CCU and ITU, but there are so many things that can kill you that you'd need a plethora of blood and other tests to identify everything and anything that might be a problem.  You could also then get hit by a bus.  The statistics for health problems can only be relevant to an individual and I've seen so many people die unexpectedly, or get over things when they shouldn't have, the stats only work, really, for the statisticians and for big pharma who want us all to be medicated 24/7. 

It's like when they changed daylight savings time and discovered that far less people were killed in the evenings in RTAs than before but more in the mornings.  They kept the change.  Then some clever person pointed out that at the same time they'd made drink driving illegal and no-one knew the relative effect of the drinking ban compared to the light change. 

Stats tell you very little or nothing about your own health.

My sister died at 40 of liver cancer secondary to breast cancer.  She never smoked, never drank, was a vegan and exercised regularly.  I'm not saying don't make an effort to stay healthy - I do - just that you can't spend your life worrying about the possible when you still need to deal with the actual.  If I ever get the slightest symptom of any form of cancer, I'll be off to the doc, demanding every test I can think of.


----------



## Copepod (Jun 22, 2017)

@Ipsi - regular posters can't change thread titles, but moderators / admin can. However, a less provocative title would mean many posts wouldn't make sense, so I think it's better to leave it.

In relation to you comment about statistics - you're right that many people have poor understanding of risk, epidemiology etc. It's not usually part of basic nurse education, for example. In most medical degrees, it's just a few hours, if that. Personally, I had a term of medical statistics in my MSc Environmental Technology (Health and the environment option), which I still use almost every day, nearly 19 years after graduating. I chose that course after getting type 1 diabetes aged 30 years made my BSc Marine Biology virtually useless.


----------



## Bubbsie (Jun 22, 2017)

I have no objection to the title of your thread...it drew me in...I know it doesn't relate to me...or the majority of our members here...it promotes discussion...opinion...possibly a little provocative...however...everyone here is entitled to their opinion...it's not offensive per se...I've heard/seen far worse...here & elsewhere.


----------



## Ipsi (Jun 22, 2017)

Copepod:  Now I know you have a BSc in Marine Biology, I get the Copepod reference.  I've always presumed that plankton in SpongeBob is a copepod - he looks like one.  I'm digressing...   ...you're right about nurse training having no stats.  My A Levels (way back) were Maths/Stats Biology & Computer Science - one of the first schools to do the course.  After my back problems I did a BSc in Maths and computing, looking for a change of career...    ...ended up working in finance!  Vic Reeves had a great quote about stats:  88.8% of all statistics are made up on the spot.  I know from my own work that the way data is presented can cause inferences that are diametrically opposed to a valid interpretation of the data. 

Those studies where you can reduce your risk of contracting alienitis by 20% if you juggle fish for an hour every day, when your chances of contracting it in your lifetime are only one in three billion to start with are frequently the basis for big pharma to attempt to convince the medical profession that everyone should be taking a particular drug (or juggling fish) forever.  More often than not it's only politicians they need to convince. 

Bubsie: Thanks.  I was a little brusque with my opening post though.


----------



## Northerner (Jun 22, 2017)

Does this mean I can finally put these fish down, they're making my arms ache!


----------



## Bubbsie (Jun 22, 2017)

Ipsi said:


> Copepod:  Now I know you have a BSc in Marine Biology, I get the Copepod reference.  I've always presumed that plankton in SpongeBob is a copepod - he looks like one.  I'm digressing...   ...you're right about nurse training having no stats.  My A Levels (way back) were Maths/Stats Biology & Computer Science - one of the first schools to do the course.  After my back problems I did a BSc in Maths and computing, looking for a change of career...    ...ended up working in finance!  Vic Reeves had a great quote about stats:  88.8% of all statistics are made up on the spot.  I know from my own work that the way data is presented can cause inferences that are diametrically opposed to a valid interpretation of the data.
> 
> Those studies where you can reduce your risk of contracting alienitis by 20% if you juggle fish for an hour every day, when your chances of contracting it in your lifetime are only one in three billion to start with are frequently the basis for big pharma to attempt to convince the medical profession that everyone should be taking a particular drug (or juggling fish) forever.  More often than not it's only politicians they need to convince.
> 
> Bubsie: Thanks.  I was a little brusque with my opening post though.


I didn't take your post personally Ipsi...why would I...why would anyone here?...possibly because the level of support that diabetics receive (or rather the lack of it) particularly type 2's...my opinion only... is a sensitive issue for many of us here...I was given my diagnosis in a telephone call from my GP...told to collect a prescription...little advice given...advised not to test...so much neglect in the first few months...too much to mention here...however...I read...researched...wrote to my GP...challenged his lack of support...got him to prescribe me testing strips...challenged the local CCG when they were likely to intervene & stop him from prescribing (and won)...I didn't find all of those measures particularly difficult...time consuming though! but not difficult...I am a lawyer by trade...have a degree in pure law (haven't admitted that here before)...used to reading turgid...dry...verbose...volumes of documentation to extract the salient points...others do not have that benefit...or experience...many have been left to simply get on with it...not advised/supported adequately...unaware of how devastating diabetes can be...'take the pills come back in three/six months'...that is not an excuse...however...but you may find it is the explanation for why many find themselves in a mess...so far down the diabetes 'scale' it seems an impossibility to recover...refocus....that's the beauty of the forum...they can come here...discuss...be advised...supported...I wouldn't apologise for your post...it's provoked a 'healthy' discussion...got our interest...looking forward to what else you may have to say...given your medical background...could be enlightening.


----------



## Steff (Jun 22, 2017)

Ipsi said:


> Steff:  I would change the thread title - now I know the site better (shouldn't have gone off half cocked, just presumed that most diabetics were like the ones I knew) - if I had the first clue how to do that.
> .


No probs looks like its staying as it is


----------



## Ipsi (Jun 22, 2017)

I'll have a think...  I know I don't like drugs like Glyclazide that just flog an often already failing pancreas to produce more insulin.  Generally, anything that helps reduce insulin resistance is worth pursuing but that means a variety of options depending on how your diabetes manifests.  I also think that far more research needs to be done into the possibility of long term/permanent glucagon adjustment treatments, although I understand there is an on-going study in rats that seems to have reversed diabetes using this method.  It's a long way off any human trials in any case.

I had similar, though not so drastic, problems when I became diabetic.  Even for my last hba1c test I had to phone the doctor to get the result.  Given there were other tests involved, I do find it astonishing that they'd only contact me for a "bad" result.  Who is the diabetic?  Who needs to know the results more? 

I'm glad that this forum exists.  Had I known about it when I was diagnosed it would have been invaluable.  Having been a nurse, I knew the mechanics of diabetes but was sometimes astonished that medical professionals who were prescribing for it seemed not to.  I mentioned the islets of Langerhans to one of my GPs early on and got a completely blank look - I think he thought I was talking about a holiday destination.  It wasn't until I mentioned the alpha and beta cells that I observed that kick-start expression people get when they didn't know what you were talking about but now they think they're up to speed.  Fortunately, my current GP is also the practise diabetes specific GP.  He knows a lot more than most but we still disagree on treatments etc. at times.  He would like to drown me in unnecessary statins, for instance.  At least he no longer treats me like an idiot, which he did at first.

One of the conversations I had with him was about having researched statins and analyse of their usefulness across different demographics.  I'd come to the conclusion that I really didn't need them (total cholesterol 5, with a good split) and that I was dubious about their use over large sections of the population.  He actually said to me, "Well there's a lot of nonsense you can read on the internet, but I'm getting my information from medical journals".  I rarely get angry but that did spark me off.  "I said, what do you think I'm researching from, the **** Beano?" Then pointed out some of the "nonsense" internet sites (e.g. the NHS research journal libraries).  We have had a much better relationship since that exchange. 

Bottom line is:  I'm fundamentally in agreement that healthcare for diabetics is woefully inadequate in terms of education and dissemination of information regarding options for treatment/disease maintenance.  I had to buy my own test strips at first. I only got prescribed them after I briefly took Gliclazide (and experienced my first and only hypo, which was fun - and weird).  I don't think it's necessarily just diabetics this is true for but I have noticed a tendency for the media (and some healthcare professionals) to categorise diabetes as an entirely lifestyle related disease, like we're all alcoholics (alcoholism, frankly, is also a disease, not a "lifestyle") and somehow make us less worthy of healthcare because of it.  It's not an overt statement but there does seem to be a tacit consensus that it's one of "those" kinds of diseases.


----------



## MikeW59 (Jun 22, 2017)

Ahem, morning and hello Ipsi - well done, what a brilliant pot stir.

I'm T2 and still a bit fat.
My son said, cut the crap dad, you don't see many thin fit people with diabetes.
He was right.

So, I stopped eating what I previously thought of as the 'good' things, reclassified them as 'bad' things and the weight came off.
Like magic!
No like normal!

Was a bit confused when told by my Doc that Glics were weight positive though, turn sugar to fat, kind of mixed message there, lose weight but here's a drug that will increase it.
Anyhow, motivation is the word.
Lose weight or die, simple choice really.

M


----------



## Ditto (Jun 22, 2017)

> Lose weight or die, simple choice really.


I've always known that but I'm still fat!  I need a fridge magnet with that on.


----------



## Wirrallass (Jun 22, 2017)

Just a few words...
I would prefer your thread title to read:-
Why do some people who have  - or - living with Diabetes not take things seriously. Thank you.

I am not a diabetic but I am a person who has Diabetes.
Diabetes is a condition not a disease.

PS. No offence but you certainly know how to wind up some people ipsi 

Oh and welcome to this friendly & supportive forum.


----------



## Amigo (Jun 22, 2017)

If you're a thinking, proactive person, it's hard not to rage about diabeties because it's maligned, misunderstood and misdirected by medics. I know so many diabetics who live in denial...don't understand it, don't want the limitations and use the 'I could be hit by a bus' analogy. They don't realise that they already have been hit by something very dangerous and if they don't jump out of the way, it will reverse back over them. But you can't save everyone. Some had very good funerals and I went to them.

I think perhaps your mistake Ipsi, was not realising your rant was to like minded people. Sometimes we get new members who roar onto the forum as if they've just invented the wheel and set forth to preach to those who've been peddling away for years. But they have good intentions and usually a passion for the subject so that's ok.

Health stats are curious for sure. I have an incurable blood cancer and statistically I could stand in a fully packed Wembley Stadium and they'd not be a single other sufferer and certainly not one of my age and gender. I went on to get a skin cancer and statistically the chances of it being a malignant melanoma were incredibly tiny. However it was and I've never sunbathed or used sunbeds. Life sucks and especially for your poor sister who did everything to help herself and it still didn't work.

So I'm afraid I won't be totally avoiding a few chips or the occasional biscuit. But it will be on my terms and tested for afterwards. A life of total avoidance is too obsessive for me and shouldn't be necessary. However, diabeties isn't only about life choices. Sometimes our pancreatic function is knackered too early and no biscuit avoidance in the world is going to help that. Diabeties isn't created equal but it's the one condition we can give ourselves a fighting chance with. It's about learning our own limits but the medics don't see that and don't want to fund a partnership response to home testing for type 2's.

Hope you enjoy the forum Ipsi. I feel sure you will and we don't mind getting our teeth sharpened once in a while!


----------



## cherrypie (Jun 22, 2017)

Does it come easy being a paragon of virtue @Ipsi?
No two diabetics are the same, we are not robots and I found your opening post offensive.

I try as hard as I can to manage my diabetes but have other conditions which need a different dietary approach.  I have to juggle my menus depending on whether I am in the midst of a flare up from Crohn's disease, fibre can become a problem, or try to add more calcium to my menu, because of osteoporosis.  It is a minefield for me and I do not think you understand the complexities that some of us have to go through to enable us to  eat to be healthy.  I have never been overweight and never lived to eat but rather I eat to live.  I sometimes eat starchy carbs to feel better, rather than to throw my diabetes control out of the window.

I doubt there is anyone on this forum who does not try to do the best they can  and unless your live our lives then you should not generalise.


----------



## Steff (Jun 22, 2017)

cherrypie said:


> Does it come easy being a paragon of virtue @Ipsi?
> No two diabetics are the same, we are not robots and I found your opening post offensive.
> 
> I try as hard as I can to manage my diabetes but have other conditions which need a different dietary approach.  I have to juggle my menus depending on whether I am in the midst of a flare up from Crohn's disease, fibre can become a problem, or try to add more calcium to my menu, because of osteoporosis.  It is a minefield for me and I do not think you understand the complexities that some of us have to go through to enable us to  eat to be healthy.  I have never been overweight and never lived to eat but rather I eat to live.  I sometimes eat starchy carbs to feel better, rather than to throw my diabetes control out of the window.
> ...


Great to see you post Cherry x


----------



## Wirrallass (Jun 22, 2017)

cherrypie said:


> Does it come easy being a paragon of virtue @Ipsi?
> No two diabetics are the same, we are not robots and I found your opening post offensive.
> 
> I try as hard as I can to manage my diabetes but have other conditions which need a different dietary approach.  I have to juggle my menus depending on whether I am in the midst of a flare up from Crohn's disease, fibre can become a problem, or try to add more calcium to my menu, because of osteoporosis.  It is a minefield for me and I do not think you understand the complexities that some of us have to go through to enable us to  eat to be healthy.  I have never been overweight and never lived to eat but rather I eat to live.  I sometimes eat starchy carbs to feel better, rather than to throw my diabetes control out of the window.
> ...


Hear hear cherrypie


----------



## Ipsi (Jun 22, 2017)

Have to say:  I love the forum.  Healthy debate, even with a ranting buffoon like myself, is always useful.

Amigo:  Exactly my mistake.  Had I used my brain a little better I would have realised that the diabetics I've met that have annoyed me with their denial and ignorance are not likely to be the same ones that visit this forum.  I've been dealing with them in my life, trying to get them to wake up to it, for years - way before I was diabetic.  I even thought my own response to my diabetes might be a motivator or at least an example.  It's frustrating when people you love are mismanaging a serious condition and just won't respond to reason.  Hence the rant, I guess - displacement activity. 

Funerals are inevitable for us all - I have to go to one on Monday for a friend who didn't get a problem checked out that turned out to be bowel cancer - but it's still hard to convince some people that quality of life in the interim doesn't revolve around a choc-ice and that by making the right choices and educating themselves they may actually improve their quality of life, even without the choc-ice.

I'm not talking about your few chips or biscuit, tested for and planned, I'm talking about those who use phrases like "a bit of what you fancy does you good" and "one can't hurt" to actually mean as much of what you "fancy" as you've always had and one, then another one, then another one etc.

I guess I'm just good at preaching to the converted.


----------



## mikeyB (Jun 22, 2017)

Yup. I don't like being preached at by anyone. We all do our best - we are a self selected group who seek to learn from other members.

 Its easy for me - I'm Type 1. I eat healthily, but I also occasionally eat chips. And a chocolate digestive now and then. That's what insulin is for. I couldn't exercise even if I wanted to. That's the trouble - we are all different, and all have our  own little battles to fight, on our own or with help from others on the forum. And nobody is perfect, nobody has got the perfect answer to how to deal with diabetes. We can tell folk what works for us, but that doesn't mean it will work for everybody.

Let's all lighten up. And Ipsi, lesson learned, yes?


----------



## Ipsi (Jun 22, 2017)

Cherrypie:  Don't make the same mistake I did:  Read everything before you pass judgement.
We've, hopefully, moved on from Ipsi bashing now.


----------



## Ipsi (Jun 22, 2017)

mikeyB:


----------



## Amigo (Jun 22, 2017)

Ipsi has admitted his initial mistake so hopefully we can now go back to fighting the real enemy which is diabeties and not each other. Never judge a wo/man until you've battled with their BG's and life challenges for a week!

Hell I need a biscuit now!  

Get yourself over to the Allygus thread Ipsi. You can eat anything on there carb and guilt free. The owner can be a bit grumpy but you'll get used to him!


----------



## cherrypie (Jun 22, 2017)

Ipsi said:


> Cherrypie:  Don't make the same mistake I did:  Read everything before you pass judgement.
> We've, hopefully, moved on from Ipsi bashing now.


I read the thread but your first post seems to be the most judgmental on the entire thread.
We can agree to differ and perhaps you need to think before you post rather than upsetting members here.
I will say no more on the subject.


----------



## james44 (Jun 22, 2017)

i try moderation sometimes i'm weak sometimes i'm good at it , if i have one choc biccy i can't stop until i've had 10 . i don't punish myself because im new to this and learning as i go on , my exercise is getting better as i kept dropping to 3 , now i eat a banana before i work out and 3 or 4 glucose tabs . i couldn't be like some on here that are hardcore at dealing with their T2 thru diet , but i'm picking up bits and pieces from all of you and have found strength from all u good people


----------



## Ipsi (Jun 22, 2017)

Dropping to 3 sounds horrible!  I had a hypo at 4.2.  Shaking, weird, disorientated.  I took my BG to see if it was a hypo and I was shaking so hard I could barely do it.  I thought it took me about ten minutes to get the reading but my wife said it was about 20 seconds.  I had one bite of a banana and, within a few seconds, I had gone up enough for the hypo to stop.  That's when I told my doc the gliclazide was too much, went down from 80mg twice a day to 40mg once a day, then none.  Still on the metformin though.


----------



## Bubbsie (Jun 22, 2017)

james44 said:


> i try moderation sometimes i'm weak sometimes i'm good at it , if i have one choc biccy i can't stop until i've had 10 . i don't punish myself because im new to this and learning as i go on , my exercise is getting better as i kept dropping to 3 , now i eat a banana before i work out and 3 or 4 glucose tabs . i couldn't be like some on here that are hardcore at dealing with their T2 thru diet , but i'm picking up bits and pieces from all of you and have found strength from all u good people


James seems like it's early days for you (?)...I was very disciplined at diagnosis & just after...chasing the perfect number...then I slowed down...realised I didn't have to be so rigid with my control...I follow a low carb high fat diet...largely...however I do deviate occasionally...I have a snack before bed...usually a couple of KitKat mini bars...or some tuc crackers...if I am out with friends/family I eat what I want within reason...that works for me (but may not work for others)...I have an BG average of 5.8...which I am happy with...taken me a year to get there...but...feel reasonably happy with my control at the moment...I have reduced the Metformin from twice daily to one a day...fortunately never had take any hypo causing medication...at my next review I may consider stopping the Metformin...will discuss that with GP...diabetes is unpredictable...but...with time we usually learn what will work for us...get to the stage where how you control your BG will become like second nature...outright abstinence won't work for me...but...as others have said moderation is fine...finding what suits you as an individual is the best way forward.


----------



## trophywench (Jun 22, 2017)

I have to differ on the choc ice front.  Tesco's dark choc ones are about 12g carb and well worth the insulin and every lick, frankly.  Could only be improved if they used coffee ice cream instead of vanilla !


----------



## Pumper_Sue (Jun 22, 2017)

Copepod said:


> regular posters can't change thread titles, but moderators / admin can. However, a less provocative title would mean many posts wouldn't make sense, so I think it's better to leave it.


Yes they can if they click on thread tools on the right hand side of the screen above first post


----------



## MikeTurin (Jun 22, 2017)

Bubbsie said:


> possibly because the level of support that diabetics receive (or rather the lack of it) particularly type 2's...my opinion only... is a sensitive issue for many of us here...


Exactly And remember that I'm in Italy and there's no luxury to have not one but *two* diabetes forum.
(Also I have to apologise for my English that sometime is plain wrong)
When one is diagnosed normally gets very low support and if doesn't have the instruments to make self study is left alone without informations.



> I wouldn't apologise for your post...it's provoked a 'healthy' discussion...got our interest...looking forward to what else you may have to say...given your medical background...could be enlightening.


I suppose that is interesting to know what happens on the other side of the table.


----------



## Amigo (Jun 22, 2017)

Bubbsie said:


> James seems like it's early days for you (?)...I was very disciplined at diagnosis & just after...chasing the perfect number...then I slowed down...realised I didn't have to be so rigid with my control...I follow a low carb high fat diet...largely...however I do deviate occasionally...I have a snack before bed...usually a couple of KitKat mini bars...or some tuc crackers...if I am out with friends/family I eat what I want within reason...that works for me (but may not work for others)...I have an BG average of 5.8...which I am happy with...taken me a year to get there...but...feel reasonably happy with my control at the moment...I have reduced the Metformin from twice daily to one a day...fortunately never had take any hypo causing medication...at my next review I may consider stopping the Metformin...will discuss that with GP...diabetes is unpredictable...but...with time we usually learn what will work for us...get to the stage where how you control your BG will become like second nature...outright abstinence won't work for me...but...as others have said moderation is fine...finding what suits you as an individual is the best way forward.



Hell with an average BG of 5.8 your Hba1c should be around the 33 mark Bubbsie. You'll be taken off the Diabetic Register if you maintain that level!


----------



## Bubbsie (Jun 22, 2017)

Amigo said:


> Hell with an average BG of 5.8 your Hba1c should be around the 33 mark Bubbsie. You'll be taken off the Diabetic Register if you maintain that level!


Not so sure about maintaining that Amigo...just had a real hoo haa with British Gas...so infuriated...reached for the KitKat mins...no idea what happened...suddenly the packet was empty!...couldn't have been me could it.


----------



## Bubbsie (Jun 22, 2017)

Amigo said:


> Hell with an average BG of 5.8 your Hba1c should be around the 33 mark Bubbsie. You'll be taken off the Diabetic Register if you maintain that level!


Not sure I'm ready for that yet...initially my first objective...now...worried old Dr Max Medication may stop all the checks...strips etc...I have discussed that with him...he says not...can still have them when I feel I need them...but...not sure I believe that.


----------



## Bubbsie (Jun 22, 2017)

MikeTurin said:


> Exactly And remember that I'm in Italy and there's no luxury to have not one but *two* diabetes forum.
> (Also I have to apologise for my English that sometime is plain wrong)
> When one is diagnosed normally gets very low support and if doesn't have the instruments to make self study is left alone without informations.
> 
> ...


Mike...don't apologise...I understand exactly what you mean...agree with it...same condition...same difficulties...same problems...I really do feel type 2 diabetics are treated very shabbily...particularly those not dependant on hypo causing medication...here in the UK...no idea how it is in Italy...but...sounds like you may have the same issues.


----------



## Martin Canty (Jun 22, 2017)

MikeW59 said:


> you don't see many thin fit people with diabetes.


TBH you don't "see" many people with D, you just need to be told. At DX I considered myself to be in good shape with some active pursuits, a little overweight perhaps. At DX I made a decision that I didn't want complications due to D & therefore I would need to change things immediately. Took almost a year to learn the basics, making some big mistakes along the way (Hypo related).

I think it's up to us, as D's who have/are made/making significant lifestyle changes to educate people in general about the disease and what can be achieved with good control. Reminds me of a conversation with my Yoga teacher, talking about her son who is T1, I mentioned that I was T2, to which she replied "I would never have thought, you are so slim!"


----------



## Chris Hobson (Jun 22, 2017)

I don't know whether it was because I ended up in hospital at the time of my diagnosis but I found the service that I got from the health service to be very good. I was given a load of leaflets to read all about various different aspects of managing diabetes. While in hospital I had visits from various specialist nurses who gave advice and answered questions. After leaving hospital, as I was initially on insulin injections, I had a consultation with a nutritionalist who explained how to calculate carb content in meals and I was also offered a place on a week long course to learn about balancing insulin levels. As it turned out I didn't need any of that because I stopped using insulin after nine months.

Regarding the OP, I know of other diabetics who are less diligent about managing the condition than I am, or in one case not diligent in the slightest, but as far as I'm concerned that is entirely up to them. It is their business not mine. I cut all refined sugar from my diet initially but now have it in moderation. At present I don't feel that it is necessary to cut it out altogether but if I felt it was needed I would cut it out again. Those who know me from other parts of the forum will be aware that my preferred way of managing diabetes is to do insane amounts of exercise. This seems to work for me, at my last check up my HbA1c reading was 50 mmol/mol.


----------



## Copepod (Jun 22, 2017)

Pumper_Sue said:


> Yes they can if they click on thread tools on the right hand side of the screen above first post


Thanks Sue for correction. I've changed a few thread titles at posters' requests, so assumed it wasn't possible for regular posters. Your information will save me occasional tasks.


----------



## Pumper_Sue (Jun 22, 2017)

Copepod said:


> Thanks Sue for correction. I've changed a few thread titles at posters' requests, so assumed it wasn't possible for regular posters. Your information will save me occasional tasks.


You are more than welcome I only found out by accident the other day


----------



## MikeTurin (Jun 22, 2017)

Bubbsie said:


> Mike...don't apologise...I understand exactly what you mean...agree with it...same condition...same difficulties...same problems...I really do feel type 2 diabetics are treated very shabbily...particularly those not dependant on hypo causing medication...here in the UK...no idea how it is in Italy...but...sounds like you may have the same issues.


The interesting thin is that, despite the differences between SSN and NHS, an the other big differences between Italy and UK here type 2 diabetics aren't treated very well and are almost forgotten if aren't using insulin: also people that are using statines to lower cholesterol have a maximum of one blood check for year if levels are ok, so if something goes bad one have a yer to wait to find it.


----------



## james44 (Jun 22, 2017)

i'm glad i came on here as i'd forgotten to take my metformin , decided after advice in the pharmacy to stop taking glic and my hypos have stopped , recently back form spain and a fella with the nickname ' wildman' came with us . he's type 2 and drinks double vodkas to he passes out , i get worried for him as he is such a nice bloke and is always smiling . i try to keep an eye on him but he sayes if he couldn't live like this he'd rather not live


----------



## trophywench (Jun 22, 2017)

james44 said:


> i'm glad i came on here as i'd forgotten to take my metformin , decided after advice in the pharmacy to stop taking glic and my hypos have stopped , recently back form spain and a fella with the nickname ' wildman' came with us . he's type 2 and drinks double vodkas to he passes out , i get worried for him as he is such a nice bloke and is always smiling . i try to keep an eye on him but he sayes if he couldn't live like this he'd rather not live




Recipe for a short life and the end of it not as happy as he thinks he is now.

Personally though - most of us here aim for both things - a LONG life - but still a happy one!!


----------



## Browser (Jun 23, 2017)

novorapidboi26 said:


> Quality of Life vs Great BG Control............discuss....


Nail on head. This statement is central to this whole debate. Life at any cost with unquestioning dedication to keeping BG in check as far as this is mentally and physically possible  v.  Living with the condition, taking informed, calculated risks based on experience, knowledge, advice and human weakness. When the day of judgement comes, I don't think I'll regret the route I chose.


----------



## Amigo (Jun 23, 2017)

Browser said:


> Nail on head. This statement is central to this whole debate. Life at any cost with unquestioning dedication to keeping BG in check as far as this is mentally and physically possible  v.  Living with the condition, taking informed, calculated risks based on experience, knowledge, advice and human weakness. When the day of judgement comes, I don't think I'll regret the route I chose.



That is the key issue for me but it's about conscious choices as opposed to reckless abandonment. Life BD (before diabetes) for me involved little thought as to the impact of that scone I was bringing home for later or the implications of certain excesses. Now I stop and think and I evaluate. Sometimes I then go on and do it anyway but then I stop and that's the difference. 

The foolhardy ones are those who never think, never consider the consequences and pretend they don't much care anyway.


----------



## Ingressus (Jun 23, 2017)

Amigo said:


> If you're a thinking, proactive person, it's hard not to rage about diabeties because it's maligned, misunderstood and misdirected by medics. I know so many diabetics who live in denial...don't understand it, don't want the limitations and use the 'I could be hit by a bus' analogy. They don't realise that they already have been hit by something very dangerous and if they don't jump out of the way, it will reverse back over them. But you can't save everyone. Some had very good funerals and I went to them.
> 
> I think perhaps your mistake Ipsi, was not realising your rant was to like minded people. Sometimes we get new members who roar onto the forum as if they've just invented the wheel and set forth to preach to those who've been peddling away for years. But they have good intentions and usually a passion for the subject so that's ok.
> 
> ...



Just for i split second i thought you said you have an incurable blood cancer


----------



## Amigo (Jun 23, 2017)

Ingressus said:


> Just for i split second i thought you said you have an incurable blood cancer



I have Ingressus. Treatable but as yet incurable I'm afraid but I'm holding my own at the moment.


----------



## Ingressus (Jun 23, 2017)

Wow sometimes you can just get humbled by other people's bravery


----------



## Amigo (Jun 23, 2017)

Ingressus said:


> Wow sometimes you can just get humbled by other people's bravery



Lots of brave people on here Ingressus fighting all kinds of serious illnesses and disabilities, be they diabetic related or not. Even harder for those struggling with emotional and mental health problems. Which is why not everyone can be a hero every day with their diabetes.


----------



## Ingressus (Jun 23, 2017)

I think anyone who is fighting diabetes or other issues are heroes whether they know it or not


----------



## trophywench (Jun 24, 2017)

Well exactly - anyone that says 'It's easy' is lying cos it ruddy well ain't.  And I've hardly got anything else, unlike such a lot of others.


----------

