# Any Pagans on here?



## Flutterby (Jan 21, 2016)

Well that got your attention! It's a serious question actually.  I realise the very term "Pagan" is a bit vague as lots of different beliefs end up having this umbrella heading.

Anyway I'm Christian but not fitting in very well somehow with the standard ways of believing/worshiping etc etc.  I'm just interested - that's all.  Hope this is allowed - it's kind of religious I suppose but I'd rather call it spiritual.


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## AlisonM (Jan 21, 2016)

I'm a devotee of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and a Klingon on alternate Tuesdays. Other than that, no special beliefs or practices.


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## Northerner (Jan 21, 2016)

I'd probably say I'm a humanist  In fact, I took this test and it says I'm 100% Humanist!

https://humanism.org.uk/humanism/how-humanist-are-you/


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## Flutterby (Jan 21, 2016)

I've just tried that test but I find I want more options! So the one about one God or many gods/goddesses I want to say, one God, without gender but at the same time comprising male and female rather than the traditional Father God and also that there are many names for God. I also find God in nature. Hmm I don't fit any one box!


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## robert@fm (Jan 21, 2016)

Only 79% humanist in my case.


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## Flutterby (Jan 21, 2016)

I was 24%


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## HOBIE (Jan 21, 2016)

AlisonM said:


> I'm a devotee of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and a Klingon on alternate Tuesdays. Other than that, no special beliefs or practices.


 Made me laugh . I do a lot of work in a few different churches. Some good people some not as good as they think


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## robert@fm (Jan 22, 2016)

Maybe the question on why we should be kind to animals should focus on cats specifically, so as to include the option "they are our overlords".  After all, one of the most memorable Bond villains is a white cat who carries out his evil schemes by controlling a human called Blofeld.


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## trophywench (Jan 22, 2016)

Hobie - you've just reminded me of something that happened when I was about 7 !

Methodist, Sunday School Anniversary coming up.  Big big sing by all the kids attending the school, rehearsals early evenings in the chapel.  We had to join in the Chorus during the Anthem sung by the Choir so sometimes, they would also be in attendance - it was an adult Choir, all ladies - all middle aged or older.  During the proceedings one evening I overheard one 'lady' discussing another they both knew, with one of her mates - bulling this other person up (who I did know via my mom anyway, we were all 'local')

I came home and said to mom how I thought it was a bit strange, bearing in mind when I was with mom last week we'd happened to meet the Choir lady and she's slagged off this very person in no uncertain terms, and my mom had said eg 'That's a bit odd, Evelyn, I've never found that with Doris - she's always been perfectly fine with me! so I can't agree with you there!'

My mom grabbed my hand and looked me straight in the eyes and said 'Ah Jennifer!  You've just learned an Important Lesson in Life.  That just because a person goes to church and always acts like they are whiter than white on the surface, does NOT automatically mean they really are a Christian!'  I rather think I've never actually forgotten that lesson, either.

Karen - I believe in God - or rather I think I'm more like my Dad who wasn't willing to call that Being, God, cos his/her/it's name is not actually all that important.  The important thing is to have a belief in a Supreme Being - who invented eg the grass and everything else natural to begin with.  It's just more convenient and easier all round to go down the God route, IYSWIM.

I appear to be 67% - I may be agnostic !  I've considered that many times -  I don't think so ....... not completely!  I said to someone else - I should B. well hope there is something better waiting for me that someone/thing has created, cos let's face it - humans have made a right mess of it, haven't they?


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## Flutterby (Jan 22, 2016)

I think your dad and I could have had an interesting discussion, Jenny. I go to a lively church, the people are nice, its evangelical so we sing modern songs, wave flags, dance (if we wish), take part as and when so all good but somewhere in me is discontentment. When you scratch the surface you find quite rigid thinking and although that used to be me as well, it isn't anymore. Square peg, round hole comes to mind.


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## Robin (Jan 22, 2016)

89% Humanist. I like to think about things logically and consider the evidence. I'm now trying to work out which question it was that I answered, that meant I didn't score 100%.


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## Annette (Jan 22, 2016)

Apparently I'm 100%humanist as well. Bit of a shock. Brought up Christian, but feel (often) too scientific to accept the teachings I'm supposed to take as given, so gave up religion of all kinds.


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## Northerner (Jan 22, 2016)

I'm afraid my view of organised religion, not meaning to offend anyone, is that there has never been a person born who knows any more about it than me. There have been a lot of philosophers over the ages, and some of their teachings are very valid in helping people find purpose in life and how to live with others, but I would reject entirely the notion of a deity who intervenes on behalf of any one group to the detriment of another - usually the justification for war and power 

An ex-girlfriend's father was a Methodist minister - highly intelligent, truly good man. One of his favourite pastimes was engaging Jehovah's Witnesses in conversation and challenging their orthodoxy. He was a scholar who knew the Bible in the Hebrew, Greek and Latin translations, and any quote could be brought to mind and explained for its true context, not cherry-picked to serve a particular viewpoint. Towards the end of his working life he moved to a rural area where the parishioners were very fixed in their ways and their little organisations conspired to have him removed because he didn't sign up to their rigid beliefs - he ended up having to go elsewhere, and they went back to their narrow-minded ways


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## Stitch147 (Jan 22, 2016)

90% humanist apparently. Ive never really had much of an opinion on religion. Ive never been brought up to believe or dis-believe anything in particular.


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## Caroline (Jan 22, 2016)

I wouldn't say I am Pagan or an Atheist,  or a Christian. I consider myself an explorer.

Religion is important to many people, and it is what is right for them. Personally (and it is just a personal opinion) I think people are more important than religion, and the kind of person you are. You don't need to follow any religion, faith or belief system to be nice, but it is good if you have faith that you are happy and comfortable with


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## Mark T (Jan 22, 2016)

Apparently I'm 100% humanist too.

However I did claim to be a Jedi once


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## Amigo (Jan 22, 2016)

I'm 90% apparently. I'm maintaining the remaining 10% as an insurance just in case IT does exist!


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## AlisonM (Jan 22, 2016)

I've 'tried' most of the Christian variations at one time or another, living on RAF bases you practised whatever version the Padre did, so we've been CofE/S/I, Anglican, Episcopalian, Baptist and Methodist*, it was confusing. Plus, mum used religion like valium, as a crutch and I was rather put off by her fervour at times. She ended up being a well respected Methodist (Wesleyan) theologian and her biblical knowledge was astounding, we had a lot of debates over they years on the bible as an historical document, comparing it to the Torah and the Koran. I eventually joined the catholic church (in order to marry) but lapsed 10 years later - mum supported that bless her. Dad never went to church unless there was a special occasion, he was either agnostic or athiest but would never say one way or the other. I learned most of my humanist attitudes from him.

On the whole, I tend to avoid organised religion these days and the only thing I can say I got from it is a deep and abiding love of choral music. Whether there is a supreme being out there, I couldn't say, I daresay I'll find out one day but will be most surprised to find myself faced with any pearly gates or mansions (or indeed a large fire).

If I'm honest my beliefs are largely humanist and I respect the right of others to hold their own beliefs just as long as they do the same for me. I don't care if someone is Christian, Jewish, Muslim or what religion they claim. Actions speak louder than words and that's how I measure people.

* We were Jewish after a fashion once, when the church in Rheindalen (I think) burned down, and we held ecumenical services in the Gentiles Court of the local Synagogue for a week or two. We had a similar experience when I was even younger after a fire in the local Methodist church here when we held services in the local cinema while the congregation saved for the lovely little church they now have on the riverside.


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## Northerner (Jan 22, 2016)

AlisonM said:


> We were Jewish after a fashion once, when the church in Rheindalen (I think) burned down, and we held ecumenical services in the Gentiles Court of the local Synagogue for a week or two. We had a similar experience when I was even younger after a fire in the local Methodist church here when we held services in the local cinema while the congregation saved for the lovely little church they now have on the riverside.


Hmm...there seem to have been a lot of churches burning down in your younger years Alison, anything else you want to tell us?


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## AlisonM (Jan 22, 2016)

Northerner said:


> Hmm...there seem to have been a lot of churches burning down in your younger years Alison, anything else you want to tell us?


LOL. It weren't me ... honest! The local fire was caused by a gas leak in a shop next door and the German one was a mystery never solved. I met Padre Schofield many years later and he said they never found out what happened, but thought it was probably a lightning strike as the building had no lightening conductor and there had been an electrical storm.


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## Pine Marten (Jan 22, 2016)

Yes, I'm Christian. I go to our local Anglo-Catholic church and am one of the churchwardens. My hubby is the gardener! 

I'm also interested in other aspects of faith, including pagan, especially the old religion of these lovely islands of ours. I reckon God is far bigger than we know, and the older I get the less I know


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## KookyCat (Jan 22, 2016)

I don't consider myself to have a religion really, but I went to two church schools and went to church for most of my child and teenage life, so I'm well versed   I went on a pagan retreat once, it was interesting, and if I were to follow any religion I'd guess it would be something like that.  I liked the earth vibe, and I love nature in general so on the whole I was always going to connect easily with it.  There was a part of it that centred on Wiccan practices which was also rather lovely, but probably not for me.  I'm a Woodstock, bare feet kind of a gal though, don't like to be tied to anything, least of all a belief system, don't like being told how to think or feel, so I never went any further with it.  That said science is just another belief system, so despite my love of a bit of physics and biochemistry I'm not prepared to be told that human beings are just a bag of bones and sinew, we are children playing with concepts we barely understand.  Peace out


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## Flutterby (Jan 22, 2016)

I am finding your replies so incredibly interesting - all of them!  Thank you for sharing, when I have a bit more time I will comment more on some of them as you've picked up points that I feel strongly about too.  I love listening to what you believe and how you have come to those beliefs and how we are still learning.  Really helping me think my way through it all.


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## Andy HB (Jan 22, 2016)

100% Humanist here too. But I come from Quaker stock and if I ever have a religion (unlikely) then that is more likely where I'd be.


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## trophywench (Jan 23, 2016)

I've always liked the Quakers - I know nowt of their religious fervour or anything - I mean the ethic, thinking about others and not expecting those others to be decent with them unless they received the same.  Cadbury etc.

All those houses were MUCH better ones than ANY they could have possibly been able to afford outside the Village Trust.  They had medical and dental services free onsite.  They had hairdressers and chiropodists, they had cooked dinners, they had massive gardens.

Was Port Sunlight much the same?

Incidentally - whatever Christianity I have doesn't actually include me being saved in favour of anyone else !  I also don't believe TBH I have to wait until ONE particular day for all the resurrections to happen.  I don't believe that happens at all - I don't think we actually leave - only our body does.  I've been really interested in the spiritualist Church way of thinking ever since I met with it - I suppose I'm with Hamlet  and his comment to his mate Horatio, than anything else, still !  And I heard that quote from my Dad, all his life.


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## Mini-Vicki (Jan 24, 2016)

I got 100% humanist!
I was raised strictly Roman Catholic, and I followed it until I was 14, when I refused to take confirmation, and now I am an atheist. 
I also love choral music, and I think churches, and other places of worship are beautiful, and often peaceful places, however organised religion is absolutely not for me. I think many people thrive in a religion, and it can provide a fantastic support community; but I can also see many negative sides too. 
I just try to be open minded, non-judgemental, and as good a person as I can be. If I were going to follow a religion/ theory, it would probably be Buddhism.  
My dad is a Druid!


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## Flutterby (Jan 24, 2016)

Northerner said:


> I'm afraid my view of organised religion, not meaning to offend anyone, is that there has never been a person born who knows any more about it than me. There have been a lot of philosophers over the ages, and some of their teachings are very valid in helping people find purpose in life and how to live with others, but I would reject entirely the notion of a deity who intervenes on behalf of any one group to the detriment of another - usually the justification for war and power
> 
> An ex-girlfriend's father was a Methodist minister - highly intelligent, truly good man. One of his favourite pastimes was engaging Jehovah's Witnesses in conversation and challenging their orthodoxy. He was a scholar who knew the Bible in the Hebrew, Greek and Latin translations, and any quote could be brought to mind and explained for its true context, not cherry-picked to serve a particular viewpoint. Towards the end of his working life he moved to a rural area where the parishioners were very fixed in their ways and their little organisations conspired to have him removed because he didn't sign up to their rigid beliefs - he ended up having to go elsewhere, and they went back to their narrow-minded ways


This is one of the problems I face, the cherry picking to make the bible say what you want. The ignoring one bit but taking as law another. It bothers me. I feel sad for the Methodist minister. Sadly it is an oft repeated situation.


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## Flutterby (Jan 24, 2016)

Caroline said:


> I wouldn't say I am Pagan or an Atheist,  or a Christian. I consider myself an explorer.
> 
> Religion is important to many people, and it is what is right for them. Personally (and it is just a personal opinion) I think people are more important than religion, and the kind of person you are. You don't need to follow any religion, faith or belief system to be nice, but it is good if you have faith that you are happy and comfortable with


I love the "explorer" bit. I also agree that there are good people who have no faith or belief at all. I think I'm an explorer too.


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## Flutterby (Jan 24, 2016)

Mini-Vicki said:


> I got 100% humanist!
> I was raised strictly Roman Catholic, and I followed it until I was 14, when I refused to take confirmation, and now I am an atheist.
> I also love choral music, and I think churches, and other places of worship are beautiful, and often peaceful places, however organised religion is absolutely not for me. I think many people thrive in a religion, and it can provide a fantastic support community; but I can also see many negative sides too.
> I just try to be open minded, non-judgemental, and as good a person as I can be. If I were going to follow a religion/ theory, it would probably be Buddhism.
> My dad is a Druid!


I'm reading a book by Mark Townsend at the moment and he speaks a lot about Druidic faith/beliefs. I find an echo with my own thoughts in some of them.


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## trophywench (Jan 24, 2016)

I feel that I - and many other people - have lost out in life generally by not being taught about what other religions/beliefs actually believe in.  One of Pete's uncles (one of his Dad's several bros) was Chief Druid - they knew he was Druid, but not that.  Didn't really have much to do with his Dad's side, no idea why - but then, his mum's side were very close so perhaps that was it? 

Many many years ago, his part of the family were a bit gobsmacked at the huge number of folk at his funeral.  When he mentioned this one day I asked him 'Gosh - what was that like then?' - meaning the service, really.  He replied 'I don't remember much about it - except there were a heck of a lot of oak leaves!'

I'm sorry Karen, I find I take a vicious pleasure in swatting flies and murdering as many mosquitoes as I possibly can.  I don't fink I'm a suitable candidate for Buddhism!


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## AlisonM (Jan 24, 2016)

Anything that stands close to nature and cares about the planet, and it's future, is attractive to me - Druids, Wiccan, Gaeans, whatever. One of my core beliefs is that we are just caretakers and meant to look after the place for those who come after us. Not that we're doing so great a job at it, but at least some of us try.


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## Flutterby (Jan 25, 2016)

trophywench said:


> I feel that I - and many other people - have lost out in life generally by not being taught about what other religions/beliefs actually believe in.  One of Pete's uncles (one of his Dad's several bros) was Chief Druid - they knew he was Druid, but not that.  Didn't really have much to do with his Dad's side, no idea why - but then, his mum's side were very close so perhaps that was it?
> 
> Many many years ago, his part of the family were a bit gobsmacked at the huge number of folk at his funeral.  When he mentioned this one day I asked him 'Gosh - what was that like then?' - meaning the service, really.  He replied 'I don't remember much about it - except there were a heck of a lot of oak leaves!'
> 
> I'm sorry Karen, I find I take a vicious pleasure in swatting flies and murdering as many mosquitoes as I possibly can.  I don't fink I'm a suitable candidate for Buddhism!


Yes I agree, the Christian Church and especially (in my opinion) the more evangelical branches such as I've been in are very suspicious of anything "different" it would have been nice to know more about other faiths but its never too late!

I kill spiders, Jenny, so that doesn't sit well with nurturing Gods creatures!! Has to be done though.


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## Flutterby (Jan 25, 2016)

AlisonM said:


> Anything that stands close to nature and cares about the planet, and it's future, is attractive to me - Druids, Wiccan, Gaeans, whatever. One of my core beliefs is that we are just caretakers and meant to look after the place for those who come after us. Not that we're doing so great a job at it, but at least some of us try.


Yes Alison, I'm leaning more and more towards that way of thinking.


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## Northerner (Jan 25, 2016)

Something that has always struck me about so many of the world's organised religions is their subjugation of women throughout history, and still stubbornly persisting to this very day  It's so wrong that humanity has been denied the undoubted brilliance of half the population for untold centuries  Those that have shone through have been such rarities in history, yet we know for a fact that there is no difference in intellectual capability between the sexes. Any modern church that persists in the fallacy of men's superiority is not even worth considering, in my opinion


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## trophywench (Jan 25, 2016)

I wonder whose idea it was to put the bit about procreating children into the Marriage service - when it is universally acknowledged that the concept of helping, nurturing and comforting one another is foremost in the human equation.  So - does it matter what gender the loving couple are?

I know an awful lot of single parents do a phenomenal job - but the job itself is so much easier when two people share the responsibility - it was interesting seeing the kids of a gay couple of long standing, who each fathered some of those kiddies with surrogate mothers, interviewed on TV the other day.

Kids were more than happy and didn't think they lost out at all.  They were however much more concerned - and quite miffed - that some of the other parents at their schools, had said things about their parents which weren't complimentary.


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## Flower (Jan 25, 2016)

I'm 90% humanist apparently which suits me as even though I went to C of E schools I never got how someone in a cassock could stand up and proclaim to know anymore about it all than anyone else. I will keep the other 10% as an insurance policy for any enlightenment I may or may not receive along the way. My philosophy is 'Do as you would be done by' from the character in Charles Kingsley 'The Water Babies' and I hope I treat people in the same way I would like to be treated. (Spiders are an exception to this rule as I would hate to be vacuumed up and thrown in the bin )


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## Annette (Jan 25, 2016)

Flower said:


> (Spiders are an exception to this rule as I would hate to be vacuumed up and thrown in the bin )


Spiders are not people, do not have souls, and can be removed in anyway you choose to do so. And any religion that says otherwise is just wrong.  (Ditto house flies.)


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## pottersusan (Jan 25, 2016)

90% for me. I'm with those who have the 10% insurance policy and Annette on spiders and flies


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## Robin (Jan 25, 2016)

I always catch spiders alive with an upturned glass and an old postcard, and deposit them outside ( though if it's very cold I wonder if I'm really doing them a favour) on the grounds that they might help catch some of the pesky flies.


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## HOBIE (Jan 25, 2016)

Robin said:


> I always catch spiders alive with an upturned glass and an old postcard, and deposit them outside ( though if it's very cold I wonder if I'm really doing them a favour) on the grounds that they might help catch some of the pesky flies.


I too like spiders.  They catch flies


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## Stitch147 (Jan 25, 2016)

I don't mind spiders. I just leave them where they are. My cat is sometimes intrigued by them!


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## trophywench (Jan 25, 2016)

Spiders are fine - except when they are in my ling room and skulk behind the telly - as they did where I used to live!  The big uns that actually rustle as the emerge from their hiding place and scuttle across the carpet - yes a piece of paper and a glass - chuck it out, then sit and wait, eyes peeled for the other one.  I found they ALWAYS hunted in pairs.

The little ones, I would also encourage out, but if that fails on several occasions, it's curtains.

However I do think that spiders (not funnel webs or tarantulas or any of that ilk) are natural, wherever you are, and so is the occasional or even repeated, cobweb.  It doesn't mean the house is dirty - just means the spider moves faster than me!  Do spiders even live to their 60s?  I doubt it - so they all have youth on their side!


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## Rosiecarmel (Jan 25, 2016)

I got 90% humanist! I wasn't expecting that actually. I went to strict Catholic primary and secondary schools and truly believed it. I go through phases of losing my faith and finding it again. I think I find Catholicism comforting because it's the religion I know and grew up with although I'm definitely more liberal than the Church. I'm very much a live and let live kinda girl and believe in not only respecting humans but animals and nature also. I don't preach religion and would never force my beliefs on other people. I also really enjoy learning about other religions and where they all came from.

Also, spiders are the only thing I enjoy killing. They aren't included in nature. Although one of my cats does seem to befriend house spiders and let's them crawl all over him!


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## runner (Jan 26, 2016)

I came out 100% Humanist and I've been 100% Atheist since about the age of 11.  Having said that I do sing at some special church services and find that I agree with many of the sermons and beliefs, but just from a different philosophical basis.  Haven't really looked into Paganism except where it comes to christmas traditions.  I respect other's beliefs, but only in so far as they do not break the law, and show respect for all humankind. I know a lot of people won't agree with me, but I very strongly believe that religion and education should be separate - there should be no religious-based schools and children have the right to be educated and learn together without discrimination if we expect everyone to live together harmoniously.  Their parents can choose to pass on their religious or other beliefs at home.  We should learn about religions at school because they inform people's lives to such a degree, but it should be taught as a subject not as an absolute belief (isn't that, after all, indoctrination?)

P.S  spiders are fine by me!


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## AlisonM (Jan 26, 2016)

I agree with you Runner, church, state and schooling should all be completely separate from one another.

Spiders are useful creatures, they hunt other bugs so I can tolerate them and normally use a pot and postcard to escort them outside. It's things like silverfish I hate. A flat I stayed in (very briefly) in London was infested with the filthy critturs, the thought of them still makes my skin crawl. I'm not wild about slugs either, but that's cos they will eat my veggies, a wee pot of Guinness half buried among the plants usually sees them off.


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## Northerner (Jan 26, 2016)

I hate slugs. My leaky old house often has tell-tale trails across the floor when I get up in the mornings  

Did you know that slugs can affect your blood sugar levels? 

It may befall you, late at night, to wander through the house,
But be beware of things that lurk, like spider, slug or mouse!
What’s that you say? A mouse is known to scurry through the gloom,
And spiders too may weave their webs in corners of the room…
But slugs? You speak in jest my friend! What fears do they inspire?
They’ll hardly leap from out the murk, or breathe on you with fire!

But slugs have powers little known – the slime that they exude
Can raise the sugars in the blood, playing havoc with your mood!
Emitting powerful pheromones, they signal to your brain
To flood your blood with cortisol, until the slug is slain!
So arm yourself with salt and beer, to keep the beasts at bay!
And slay the ghastly gastropods – despatch them on their way!


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## AlisonM (Jan 26, 2016)

Yup @Northerner, that says it all.


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## Flutterby (Jan 27, 2016)

Gosh lots of responses, fascinating subject.

Firstly spiders are just wrong!  It is they who affect my blood sugar Alan!  Either panic or hypo - usually panic and a high result!


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## Flutterby (Jan 27, 2016)

Northerner said:


> Something that has always struck me about so many of the world's organised religions is their subjugation of women throughout history, and still stubbornly persisting to this very day  It's so wrong that humanity has been denied the undoubted brilliance of half the population for untold centuries  Those that have shone through have been such rarities in history, yet we know for a fact that there is no difference in intellectual capability between the sexes. Any modern church that persists in the fallacy of men's superiority is not even worth considering, in my opinion


I agree - none of the churches I have ever attended exclude women from leading in any way, which is a good thing as I have a big gob and a love of reading poetry and a love of taking services etc.  Of course some still do - that wouldn't suit me I am afraid.  The bible was written at  a time when few people could actually read and write,  I guess women stood no chance.  So everything we read in the bible is written by men - thus it is a somewhat biased view of things!


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## Flutterby (Jan 27, 2016)

trophywench said:


> I wonder whose idea it was to put the bit about procreating children into the Marriage service - when it is universally acknowledged that the concept of helping, nurturing and comforting one another is foremost in the human equation.  So - does it matter what gender the loving couple are?
> 
> I know an awful lot of single parents do a phenomenal job - but the job itself is so much easier when two people share the responsibility - it was interesting seeing the kids of a gay couple of long standing, who each fathered some of those kiddies with surrogate mothers, interviewed on TV the other day.
> 
> Kids were more than happy and didn't think they lost out at all.  They were however much more concerned - and quite miffed - that some of the other parents at their schools, had said things about their parents which weren't complimentary.




Again, I agree.  As long as the children are loved, cared for - all the usual things it doesn't matter what gender the parent/s are.  Gay marriage gets my vote and so does gay parenting.  Unfortunately I am in a minority not so much for holding those views but by making those views known.  Within my fairly broad experience of evangelical type churches I would be shouted down and often am.  This is one of the issues I am finding tough to be honest.


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## Flutterby (Jan 27, 2016)

Robin said:


> I always catch spiders alive with an upturned glass and an old postcard, and deposit them outside ( though if it's very cold I wonder if I'm really doing them a favour) on the grounds that they might help catch some of the pesky flies.


You are a saint, I couldn't do that!


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## Annette (Jan 27, 2016)

Flutterby said:


> ... The bible was written at  a time when few people could actually read and write,  I guess women stood no chance.  So everything we read in the bible is written by men - thus it is a somewhat biased view of things!


Going to be a bit of a pedant here (although I agree with you). The bible as we know it was put together by men. But there were several books that were left out of the current versions(s), including several by women. Cant remember much about it (its some years I read about it, and despite much hunting have never been able to find the book again, which is a shame as it was fascinating) but there was a gospel by Thomas, and several books by female writers. they were just left out when the current version was put together (I seem to recall because they didn't quite sing from the same songsheet as the others, iyswim. If we could find and reinsert the missing books, it would make for an interesting mix of views, which we currently don't have.


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## runner (Jan 27, 2016)

Are you thinking of the Dead Sea Scrolls Annette?  There was an interesting TV programme about them ( I think it was narrated by the guy who did the Arena programme - forgotten his name).


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## Mark Parrott (Jan 28, 2016)

I haven't done this test, but I used to be a practicing Pagan.  Did spells & everything.  I've let it fall by the wayside now.


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## Mrs Mad Ronin (Jan 28, 2016)

I'm not a pagan as such. I take a lot from Pagan/Wiccan/Witchcraft and i also take some stuff from Buddhism and spirituality. I do not believe in heaven or hell or god/devil. I believe in something more like goddess etc mother nature for eg. I believe in spirits/ghosts. I believe in the whole mindfulness, calm, positivity etc. So yeah, thats a brief bit about my belief. You can always message me here or on facebook if you want to chat more


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## Mark Parrott (Jan 28, 2016)

Mrs Mad Ronin said:


> I'm not a pagan as such. I take a lot from Pagan/Wiccan/Witchcraft and i also take some stuff from Buddhism and spirituality. I do not believe in heaven or hell or god/devil. I believe in something more like goddess etc mother nature for eg. I believe in spirits/ghosts. I believe in the whole mindfulness, calm, positivity etc. So yeah, thats a brief bit about my belief. You can always message me here or on facebook if you want to chat more


I know where you're coming from.  Like your Avatar.  Always been a fan of Anne Stokes & Victoria Frances.


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## Mrs Mad Ronin (Jan 28, 2016)

A big of Anne Stokes it has to be said. I like Victoria Frances as well but i do prefer Anne's work. But yes just by my post and avatar you can tell a lot of what i like/believe


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## Flutterby (Feb 12, 2016)

I'm sorry I never came back to this thread, I've been busy with party plans but as the party is Sunday I am now prepared and can get back to other equally important things!


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## Flutterby (Feb 12, 2016)

Annette Anderson said:


> Going to be a bit of a pedant here (although I agree with you). The bible as we know it was put together by men. But there were several books that were left out of the current versions(s), including several by women. Cant remember much about it (its some years I read about it, and despite much hunting have never been able to find the book again, which is a shame as it was fascinating) but there was a gospel by Thomas, and several books by female writers. they were just left out when the current version was put together (I seem to recall because they didn't quite sing from the same songsheet as the others, iyswim. If we could find and reinsert the missing books, it would make for an interesting mix of views, which we currently don't have.


You are right Annette, there is supposed to be a gospel of Mary Magdalene.  I too have heard of the gospel of Thomas and it does seem that they were left out because of their differing views!  We will probably never know which is a shame.


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## Flutterby (Feb 12, 2016)

Mark Parrott said:


> I haven't done this test, but I used to be a practicing Pagan.  Did spells & everything.  I've let it fall by the wayside now.


"spells and everything" freaks me a bit - probably because I don't understand enough.  I am always intrigued by what freaks me as I wonder if my reaction is justified or just based on ignorance!


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## Flutterby (Feb 12, 2016)

Mrs Mad Ronin said:


> I'm not a pagan as such. I take a lot from Pagan/Wiccan/Witchcraft and i also take some stuff from Buddhism and spirituality. I do not believe in heaven or hell or god/devil. I believe in something more like goddess etc mother nature for eg. I believe in spirits/ghosts. I believe in the whole mindfulness, calm, positivity etc. So yeah, thats a brief bit about my belief. You can always message me here or on facebook if you want to chat more


Aww thank you, I am veering towards similar thoughts, reading lots of interesting books at the moment.  Obviously I'd be shot or something if my more traditional friends knew this!


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## trophywench (Feb 13, 2016)

Picking up on the 'spells' here Karen.

You know how Granny Weatherwax in the Discworld was a wise woman? - she reckoned the secret of witchcraft that witches all know, and non-witched didn't cos they wouldn't understand it, was in fact 'headology'.  So basically you give them good advice (like recognising the rash they have or the belly ache or whatever will be gone within a fortnight anyway) but then in their presence you cast a spell over a piece of lucky heather or somesuch and present it to them telling them to sleep with it under their pillow for 10 days, after which the rash will disappear.

As if - by magic !


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## runner (Feb 13, 2016)

I think the only spiritual type thing I believe is that the brain has far more power than we know yet, and it wouldn't surprise me to find that we are telepathic, have a 'sixth sense'  in some way - perhaps something to do with being social animals - we give non-verbal signals to each other and more studies are finding our brain signals and heart rhythms change in relation to other people.  As a singer in a group of singers, I understand that our heartbeats fall into sync. when singing (although I guess that could be a physiological thing) and (excuse me) women of menstruating age will often fall into sync. when in the same household.  All these things seem to be more effective at a subconscious level.  Guess we've all experienced that feeling of someone looking at us behind our backs and turned to see they are!  I've often cursed myself (not literally!) for not trusting my instincts, although I think 'instinct' is probably a combination of life experience and knowledge, ability to read the body language/expression, albeit perhaps subconscious, of people.  Apart from that, Brian Cox is definitely my man!  Thoughts for the day over


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## runner (Feb 13, 2016)

By the way,  I think it's brave of you to be questioning your beliefs Flutterby, I don't think it harms any of us to do that from time-to-time.  Hope you find some answers!  

Its funny that although I'm an atheist, I just love reading fantasy, from Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, to A Discovery of Witches and the latest - The Invisible Library & sequel.  Neil Gaiman being a favourite.  Must try some of the ones mentioned above!


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## Cowboy Bob (Feb 13, 2016)

I've come to the conclusion I'm too scientific and logical to be religious. When I was younger I went searching for some kind of spirituality but never found it. I read the Bible, Qu'ran and Baghvad Gita cover to cover but although I appreciated them, no spiritual spark hit me. I even borrowed a book called Who Moved The Stone from an ex-girlfriend's father who was a Baptist minister and apparently that was what converted him, but still nothing. He ended up in prison for kiddy fiddling in the end...


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## zuludog (Feb 13, 2016)

Hummm.... Well I admit that I haven't read every single word of every single post, but I get the general idea

I'm not a pagan, though that seems more logical than believing in something that is invisible

I'm an atheist - cum -humanist - cum secularist. I don't believe in any kind of god or supernatural being or power, or ghosts, or the Tooth Fairy or anything like that
I object to the implication that only people who believe in an invisible, unprovable god, and organised religions (Christianity in particular) are capable of being decent people; and that they use their religion for self promotion and to set themselves above the law or demand special privileges.

When pressed I will refer people to  The Church of The Flying Spaghetti Monster, and to Russell's Teapot - look them up on Google

It's interesting to note that in surveys in USA, Britain, and other European countries, atheists are almost always more tolerant than any religion. I have no doubt that would also apply to pagans

COWBOY BOB
You might like to see videos on YouTube by Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins, or to read their books


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## AlisonM (Feb 13, 2016)

Yup, @trophywench, I'm a big fan of headology and Granny Weatherwax. It should be taught in schools.


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## trophywench (Feb 13, 2016)

..... and - we are all born with a sixth sense - it's because we don't use it that it falls by the wayside, not because it isn't there in the first place.  Parents discourage it for starters.

How do any of them KNOW that their child's 'imaginary friend' really isn't there - in Spirit, rather than in Person?

My maternal Grandma died in the January before I was born in the April.  My sister - a quiet baby and toddler (unlike moi LOL) - used to spend a fair bit of time with her, she was quite frail so Mom would be doing the cleaning and the cooking etc, and Grandma watched the baby and read to her etc,  Big change for sis when she went, and in due course she graduated to her own room and they redecorated Grandma's and they moved to that one.  She often used to go into the other room to have a chat to her, also continued downstairs when I was a baby.


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## Bessiemay (Feb 13, 2016)

I admit to being a Christian and have belonged to an Elim church for about 2 years. Before that I was a member of a baptist church where I was baptised about 25 years ago. It's interesting to read about all the different beliefs and I agree it's good to question our faith from time to time. I also love the modern Christian music as well as some of the timeless old favourites. 

Spiders are welcome in the garden but if I spot any bigger than a 5p coin inside they have to be disposed of.  I knew someone who used to put a glass over them and leave it till they died - that is too cruel.


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## gail1 (Feb 15, 2016)

im a pagan


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## trophywench (Feb 15, 2016)

Bessiemay said:


> Spiders are welcome in the garden but if I spot any bigger than a 5p coin inside they have to be disposed of.  I knew someone who used to put a glass over them and leave it till they died - that is too cruel.



Nasty nasty person.  Clearly not a Buddhist!  LOL 

I was really pleased when I first tried the glass and sheet of paper method, cos it really must be so easy to do if I can do it !  Both my husbands seem to manage to catch them in their hands to convey them to the great outdoors - but I'd just drop em again at the shock of having caught the little varmints!


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## Pine Marten (Feb 15, 2016)

Eeek, no way, I couldn't catch them in my hands - I do the glass & card thing but usually put a tea towel or something over the glass so I can't see the dear little creatures! I don't mind them if they are in the garden, and that is where they should stay! I would never kill them 

Going back to the OP, I'm happy staying where I am amid the bells & smells of an Anglo-Catholic church. I love plainsong, Thomas Tallis, Bach, as well as good old fashioned Blues, which can express more spirituality than anything. I'm interested too in what might be called nature worship, or the old religion, and in British folklore. God is too vast and all-encompassing to be pigeon-holed, and as Hamlet says to Horatio, There is more in heaven and earth than is dreamed of in your philosophy.


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## runner (Feb 15, 2016)

trophywench said:


> Nasty nasty person.  Clearly not a Buddhist!  LOL
> 
> I was really pleased when I first tried the glass and sheet of paper method, cos it really must be so easy to do if I can do it !  Both my husbands seem to manage to catch them in their hands to convey them to the great outdoors - but I'd just drop em again at the shock of having caught the little varmints!


'Both my husbands'?  Is this another religion you haven't told us about Trophy


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## trophywench (Feb 15, 2016)

runner said:


> 'Both my husbands'?  Is this another religion you haven't told us about Trophy



No, No !  Put that thought out of your mind immediately!

I am just a serial monogamist - first one buggered off with a blonde after nearly 28 years. I've been with this one for 18 years now, married for 16 of those, this summer.  Both of my weddings took place in Church, both being gobsmacked about either of our first spouses not being happy with us.


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## runner (Feb 16, 2016)

Ah.   Their loss, and I expect like my second marriage, things worked out for the much, much, much better!


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## newbs (Feb 16, 2016)

65% Humanist apparently.  I'm Christian and do "believe" but don't think you have to attend Church etc. to prove anything or to worship.  Like Hobie said, some church goers are not such good people!  I do think things happen that just cannot be explained logically.


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## pat.y (Feb 16, 2016)

Holding my hand up to pagan beliefs but never any organised religion.


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## Flutterby (Feb 24, 2016)

Lots more interesting replies.  I think I would say that rather than questioning my beliefs I am expanding upon them although many, many people would have issues with me for doing that and would see it as a retrograde step.


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## Flutterby (Feb 24, 2016)

Bessiemay said:


> I admit to being a Christian and have belonged to an Elim church for about 2 years. Before that I was a member of a baptist church where I was baptised about 25 years ago. It's interesting to read about all the different beliefs and I agree it's good to question our faith from time to time. I also love the modern Christian music as well as some of the timeless old favourites.
> 
> Spiders are welcome in the garden but if I spot any bigger than a 5p coin inside they have to be disposed of.  I knew someone who used to put a glass over them and leave it till they died - that is too cruel.



Hi Bessiemay - I would still say I'm a Christian but feeling a bit too "boxed in" with some of the views.  I used to be a member of an Elim Church and I got baptised there a long time ago.  I still am glad I did all that, it sits well with my soul but so, more lately, to the more earthy type spiritual beliefs.  I love most music - it 's the language of the soul - it's a shame some of the older hymns have been discarded by many, I think there is room for both in our churches.


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## Flutterby (Feb 24, 2016)

Pine Marten said:


> Eeek, no way, I couldn't catch them in my hands - I do the glass & card thing but usually put a tea towel or something over the glass so I can't see the dear little creatures! I don't mind them if they are in the garden, and that is where they should stay! I would never kill them
> 
> Going back to the OP, I'm happy staying where I am amid the bells & smells of an Anglo-Catholic church. I love plainsong, Thomas Tallis, Bach, as well as good old fashioned Blues, which can express more spirituality than anything. I'm interested too in what might be called nature worship, or the old religion, and in British folklore. God is too vast and all-encompassing to be pigeon-holed, and as Hamlet says to Horatio, There is more in heaven and earth than is dreamed of in your philosophy.



I agree with your comment that God is too vast and all encompassing to be pigeon holed.


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## Flutterby (Feb 24, 2016)

I think the comments about sixth sense ring true as well.  There are tales of my family members being aware of things.  My sister dreams and things happen afterwards that she dreamt about, it's weird and these days makes us a little uncomfortable but time back it was more accepted.  I think these days we want to be able to explain everything and we can't.


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