# Here we go



## mcdonagh47 (Mar 6, 2013)

DiABETES UK are advertising Tesco and the Tesco diets on their website now ...

http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Guide-to-diabetes/Food_and_recipes/Recipes/Tesco-Diets/

Tesco has a Diabetes Support Diet , banana smoothie and cheese on toast for breakfast anyone ? ....

http://www.tescodiets.com/px/diet-plans/diets/Diabetes

and on this page Tesco seem to have taken the DiABETES UK logo hostage ...
http://www.tescobank.com/personal/finance/community/national-charity-partner.html


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## HOBIE (Mar 6, 2013)

I think its GOOD for us. Every time a cash point is used they donate to "DUK"


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## AlisonM (Mar 6, 2013)

I had a brief look but when the steam started coming  out of my ears I decided it was bad for my blood pressure and gave up. If they were planning to do some 'real' research with the cash it might be worth the agony, but....


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## FM001 (Mar 6, 2013)

All to a worthy cause, with luck they'll reach the 10 million target before the year is out.


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## trophywench (Mar 6, 2013)

Well they do fund real research.  They are funding some that's being done at King's College Hospital this very year, the start of a mega 5 year + research programme, which I think is great and if anyone is gonna do any good for the mental health of a diabetic anywhere, it's this particular Professor.

It's all very well looking for new this and new that and new the other - but meanwhile back at the ranch, millions of us have to deal with D every day.  And there's hardly anyone anywhere in the UK who knows what the mental stress is like in real life.  Let alone understand it ....


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## Lauras87 (Mar 6, 2013)

Ughhhhh!!!!

I went into tesco today & got asked to donate.
I did say I'm raising money myself for diabetes UK so got told I know how important it is!
And why is type 2 mentioned & not type 1??


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## Northerner (Mar 6, 2013)

Lauras87 said:


> Ughhhhh!!!!
> 
> I went into tesco today & got asked to donate.
> I did say I'm raising money myself for diabetes UK so got told I know how important it is!
> And why is type 2 mentioned & not type 1??



The money will be going to Type 1 research as well Laura, but Type 1 is not something you are unlikely to know you have, or indeed that you can do anything about to try and prevent - the general campaign will be to get people who might be at risk of Type 2 to understand how they can tell or find out


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## Lauras87 (Mar 6, 2013)

Northerner said:


> The money will be going to Type 1 research as well Laura, but Type 1 is not something you are unlikely to know you have, or indeed that you can do anything about to try and prevent - the general campaign will be to get people who might be at risk of Type 2 to understand how they can tell or find out



I know but hardly anyone knows the signs for type 1, so I would of thought it would make sense to flag it up incase people show signs to get it checked out.

I didn't, it was only coz I was unwell in the night that mum rung NHS direct & they said to get me to a&e


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## Pattidevans (Mar 7, 2013)

I see from the Tesco diet examples that the mean is about 230g carbs per day.  Quite a heavy load for a T2


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## Vicsetter (Mar 7, 2013)

Didn't look like too much thought had been put into the sample - why bread the chicken? thats unnecessary carbs not too mention the cheese on toast!  Fried bacon isn't very healthy should be grilled.


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## DeusXM (Mar 7, 2013)

In fairness, this is the usual Diabetes UK nonsense about a 'healthy diet' that has been perpetuated for years, it's just now that Tesco have bought the rights to sell a bit of it.

I would love to actually meet the people who come up with this ridiculous diet stuff at Diabetes UK because frankly their qualifications aren't worth the paper they're printed on them. I'd just love them to shadow me for a day on this diet because I'd love to ask them why they think eating 84g of carbs at breakfast is good for me when my two-hour PP clocks in at over 14.

I've posted before just how clueless these people are - they actually did some research into the diet they were recommending, found it actually made things WORSE so they fudged the study and tried to essentially bury the results.

http://www.diabetessupport.co.uk/boards/showpost.php?p=394758&postcount=5

I hope to god not a penny raised by Tesco goes to pay the salary of yet another idiot dietician who switches off their brain the moment they need to use it most.


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## Andy HB (Mar 7, 2013)

DeusXM said:


> In fairness, this is the usual Diabetes UK nonsense about a 'healthy diet' that has been perpetuated for years, it's just now that Tesco have bought the rights to sell a bit of it.
> 
> I would love to actually meet the people who come up with this ridiculous diet stuff at Diabetes UK because frankly their qualifications aren't worth the paper they're printed on them. I'd just love them to shadow me for a day on this diet because I'd love to ask them why they think eating 84g of carbs at breakfast is good for me when my two-hour PP clocks in at over 14.
> 
> ...



Here here! I totally agree with what you say and I'm one of the lucky ones who can tolerate more carbs than most. Even I would not be happy following that 'taster' diet plan.

Yes, it's probably really 'healthy'. Just not for someone with diabetes (although wheat biscuits, banana and orange juice for breakfast sounds awful to me!).

Andy


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## everydayupsanddowns (Mar 7, 2013)

Andy HB said:


> Yes, it's probably really 'healthy'. Just not for someone with diabetes (although wheat biscuits, banana and orange juice for breakfast sounds awful to me!).




Mmmmmmmm

Orange juice: GI 48-57
Wheat bisks: GI 75
Banana: GI 51-62 

So a hefty (60-84g) carb load, and pretty much all of it will hit your BG pretty much as fast as table sugar (GI 60ish). Healthy, healthy healthy!

Even more weirdly 2 out of 3 of their breakfasts have the highest carb load of the day (84g) because they keep adding in a bit of extra fruit. Maybe they haven't come across the concept of DP/insulin resistance in the morning?


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## DeusXM (Mar 7, 2013)

Yeah, 84g of essentially fast acting carbs for breakfast.

Interesting fact. 100g of jelly babies = 80g of fast acting carbs.

So essentially, Diabetes UK's diet advice for people with diabetes is actually worse than suggesting eating half a bag of jelly babies for breakfast.

Brilliant.

And the irony is the half-bag of jelly babies would be better even by their own dreadful standards - it'd be lower in fat and calories.

Good to see all those clever people with their nutrition diplomas are earning their keep, eh?

As a more serious point, I'd really like to see someone from Diabetes UK engage with this debate - not just on the Tesco diets, but their advice in general. At the moment, the best you can say is their dietary advice is outright negligent. At worst, it's actual abuse and malicious. Why can't they do some proper dietary research? Why can't they actually test a variety of diets? They're getting ?10m alone from Tesco - if they're going to insist on peeing this money up the wall on everything other than a cure, why can't they fund something like this, that would help make an immediate and radical improvement in diabetes care?


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## mcdonagh47 (Mar 7, 2013)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Mmmmmmmm
> 
> Orange juice: GI 48-57
> Wheat bisks: GI 75
> ...



TBF - its Tesco's Diabetes Support Diet not DiABETES uk's and DUK do say at the bottom of the page ...

"Diabetes UK is not responsible for the content of external websites. Products highlighted on Diabetes UK's website are not necessarily endorsed by Diabetes UK."

But having taken the Devil's shilling they have to advertise the Devil's wares. Looks like a naive DiABETES UK are going to be eaten alive by Tesco over the coming year.


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## Northerner (Mar 7, 2013)

mcdonagh47 said:


> TBF - its Tesco's Diabetes Support Diet not DiABETES uk's and DUK do say at the bottom of the page ...
> 
> "Diabetes UK is not responsible for the content of external websites. Products highlighted on Diabetes UK's website are not necessarily endorsed by Diabetes UK."
> 
> But having taken the Devil's shilling they have to advertise the Devil's wares. Looks like a naive DiABETES UK are going to be eaten alive by Tesco over the coming year.



It would be nice to think that Tescos could be persuaded of the error of their ways and modify their suggestions in light of their association with DUK. I cannot think of a single well-controlled person with diabetes who would fare well on the breakfast suggestion given here. Even on insulin I would find it difficult to cope with such a carb load in the mornings - I currently need 8 units for 15g carbs in the mornings, 84g would be over half my maximum daily carb intake  I've passed on the comments to Joe in the hope that they can be fed (!) back up to the ears of those who might be  in a position to do something. Really, it would be in the interests of Tescos to produce a diet that is both truly 'diabetes-friendly' and broadly sanctioned by the diabetes community. I wonder if these diets are actually 'tested' on real diabetics, or if they are the constructs of a 'qualified dietician's' creative thinking?


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## DeusXM (Mar 7, 2013)

> TBF - its Tesco's Diabetes Support Diet not DiABETES uk's and DUK do say at the bottom of the page ...



Yes, but the diet is completely in keeping with what has been recommended by Diabetes UK - based heavily around starchy carbs and low fat. The dietary research linked in my post completely underlines exactly what Diabetes UK thinks of such a diet -there's a line in there that says "_Studies investigating the effect of weight loss on glycaemic control in Type 2 diabetes have utilised low fat diets (also known as healthy eating)..._" which shows you EXACTLY how interested they are in bothering to research and update their dietary advice.

The irony is that Tesco also offers a lower carbohydrate diet.



> Really, it would be in the interests of Tescos to produce a diet that is both truly 'diabetes-friendly' and broadly sanctioned by the diabetes community. I wonder if these diets are actually 'tested' on real diabetics, or if they are the constructs of a 'qualified dietician's' creative thinking?



The problem is, the 'diabetes community' is represented by Diabetes UK, who have little to no interest in producing sensible dietary information. I'm sorry, but have you read this document? - http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Documents/Reports/Nutritional_guidelines200911.pdf

As I've mentioned before, the whole thing reads like it was designed to prove an underlying assumption, the evidence didn't actually stack up,and so they had to fudge the whole report rather than revise the assumption.


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## martindt1606 (Mar 7, 2013)

Not sure why any T1 Diabetic would want to pay for a Tesco Diet Plan.  I'll stick to what I learned on DAFNE and the food from which experience has shown I can predict my BS impact with a reasonable degree of certainty.

Having a 30 carb snack (popcorn & milk) is not a road I want to go down.  I'm happy to stick with "If its not a meal then its a hypo correction" and that doesn't need to be snack sized.


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## HelenM (Mar 7, 2013)

Just worked out the percentages of the first  menus.

 It seems to be based on about 1500 calories and works out as aprox 62% carb, 18% protein and 20% fat.

 DUK still have the Eatwell plate on their website, though they have revised most of their diet pages in the last year.
The Balance of Good Health plate is supposed to reflect  the current recommendations of 50% total  carbohydrate  in the diet. This menu is considerably higher in carbs than that.
http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/nutguideuk.pdf

I have read of doctors in India using a diet with a similar amount of carbs successfully but it was plant based and the starchy carbs were mostly pulses  It was  also a very high fibre diet, no comparison to this one.


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## Pattidevans (Mar 7, 2013)

The recipes on Diabetes UK's own website are just as dire.  Cherry Meringue for example

Sorry, I'm with Deus, unless DUK change their dietary advice _substantially_ i.e not just adjusting the healthy eating plate by 10% of recommended carbs, then they are doing people with diabetes a disservice.  It really is time they did some proper research into the effect of carbs on BGs.


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## Andy HB (Mar 7, 2013)

Pattidevans said:


> The recipes on Diabetes UK's own website are just as dire.  Cherry Meringue for example
> 
> Sorry, I'm with Deus, unless DUK change their dietary advice _substantially_ i.e not just adjusting the healthy eating plate by 10% of recommended carbs, then they are doing people with diabetes a disservice.  It really is time they did some proper research into the effect of carbs on BGs.



This may need a separate thread of its own, but I'll make the point here!

I wonder whether the problem with doing any kind of carb vs BG research is that the range of how people react to carbs is so large! On what basis would such research be undertaken? 

For example, I can have a bowl of porage with honey and a banana in the morning and within 2hrs can be back down in the 4's again. Other people having the same may soar into double figures.

On the other hand, a small bowl of granola sends my levels into the stratosphere (relatively speaking!). White bread is the same (which is ok because I never touch the filthy stuff )

I think it is too individual an exercise for there ever to be a sensible result from any research!

But, there are a lot of clever people out there! So perhaps someone can come up with something. 

Andy


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## DeusXM (Mar 7, 2013)

> But, there are a lot of clever people out there! So perhaps someone can come up with something.



I won't claim to be massively clever, but here's an idea for how you could handle this?

Why not simply tell people that:

* Everyone's diet will be different 
* What affects blood sugar the most is carbohydrate intake, so you need to work out for yourself what's appropriate for you
* Carbohydrates convert at different speeds for everyone so you'll have to work out for yourself what doesn't cause you problems 
* High fat is _probably_ only bad if it's combined with high carb, but see what results you get first
* There are no rules

All I really want to see is dietary guidance that isn't prescriptive and lets people make their own choices. At the moment the approach is a bit like getting t-shirts for everyone and then ordering only XXXXXL ones because you're terrified someone might get a t-shirt that's too small for them.

I get that there are people out there who simply want to be told what to eat without thinking about it, but that won't ever encourage people to actively make healthy lifestyle choices.


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## LeeLee (Mar 7, 2013)

Or just add a footnote saying 'Every diabetic is an individual, and this advice will not suit everyone.  For help and advice contact your GP, DSN or online forum.'


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## Pattidevans (Mar 7, 2013)

> Why not simply tell people that:
> 
> * Everyone's diet will be different
> * What affects blood sugar the most is carbohydrate intake, so you need to work out for yourself what's appropriate for you
> ...


You missed one thing out Deus.  Give them a supply of strips and explain when to test i.e. before and at 1 & 2 hours after meals (until you find your own peak time and then that's when you test after meals).  That way people can tailor their own diet to suit.  It's bog simple!  I'm sure all those peeps who go off and "sneak naughty things" might just stop it if they saw the actual affect on them.


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## Abi (Mar 7, 2013)

I wonder whether some of the funds squandered on bits of research proving that what we already know is correct ( the study recently mentioned about reducing hypo frequency improving hypo awareness for example) would be better diverted into a fund enabling everyone to have a reasonable quantity of strips and maybe a few vouchers for those on the poverty line or really struggling to afford decent foot- for help towards cost of non starchy veg, good quality protein etc.

D UK sometimes seem to come out with some more reasonable balanced recipes . I recall about 15 years ago them doing "low fat guacamole" made out of mushy peas, and a pizza with sliced potatoes on top- I think even they now accept that some type of fat are healthy and that bread and potato together does not constitute a health meal
However, in the last couple of years saw some vegan recipes mainly consisting of root veg with a side of rice or pasta- didn;t seem to occur to them that not everyone is on basal bolus and knows how to carb count, and that even those of use who do sometimes struggle with high carb meals. Don't know why they did not bulk out the meal more with non starchy veg and a few nuts and seeds
There was also a meal with a pork and potato casserole ( of course minimal pork, lots of spuds) but they suggested serving with noodles and a type of coleslaw with chopped apple in it and a honey and lemon juice dressing- nothing wrong with these individual components ( apart from the dressing- I would have gone for plain vinaigrette) but too high carb in combination
And there are pudding recipes in their cook books where they reduce  sucrose and fat but sweeten with concentrated fruit- dried prunes etc and have all the normal amounts of flour. If these recipes are only supposed to be a treat why not go for the full fat and flavour variety- regular consumption of the almost as carby " healthy" alternatives would be detrimental to health anyhow
Rant over- I know I'm preaching to the converted


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