# Told by offhand 'phone call



## Barfly (Jul 4, 2021)

Hi all - My local surgery does a blood for me every year and the receptionist rang me to say there was an issue with my bloods, the doctor would call me 3 weeks down the track.
He called to tell me he had issued a prescription for 500mg Metformin 3 times a day. 

That was it, no advice other than I was slightly overweight 70 year old ethnic British male with a BMI of 26 but not to be concerned about it.  Don't eat refined crystal sugar.
That 's the sum total of my contact with the doctor.
Is this normal?

Wondering, Tony.


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## trophywench (Jul 4, 2021)

No idea if it's normal Tony - but it's certainly utterly crap - but you already know that ....

The trouble is, ALL carbohydrate turns to glucose within our body - not only sugar itself.  So, it's carbs you need to cut down on - less spuds, bread, rice, pasta, pies - well the pastry, the filling's probably still OK!  Click on the tab at the top of the page 'Learning Zone' register and start educating yourself since your GP has no inclination to bother.


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## Felinia (Jul 4, 2021)

0 out of 10 for patient service!  And it's very unusual to go straight in with 3 Metformin a day - you usually build up to it as it takes time to acclimatise and has side effects.  As you have been prescribed quite a high dose, it does suggest that your HbA1c is quite elevated, but you need to ask exactly what it was.  The receptionist would not be permitted to tell you.

As far as eating is concerned, you need to cut down on your carbs, not just sugar.  That is bread, potato, rice, pasta, root vegetables, processed food, most fruits, as those are what cause your blood sugar to spike.  As you do not have much weight to lose, I suggest you fill up on protein instead.  In the meantime, I suggest you work your way through the learning Zone for Type 2 diabetes, one module a day to take it in.  Also I suggest you keep a food diary, and prepare a list of questions to ask your GP.  

You should take your Metformin in the middle of your meal.  If the Metformin upsets you, you can ask to be put on slow release, which is what I take.  Diabetics are supposed to get regular tests - the Learning Zone will outline them, and you should ask your GP when you will get them, an appointment with a dietician, and a training course.


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## Ljc (Jul 4, 2021)

Welcome to the forum @Barfly . Oh dear I am really sorry to hear you h@ve been treated this way
I do hope things at the practice improve .  Did the dr mention anything about starting Metformin gradually then building up the dose, his is to help prevent Metformins well known digestive tract side effects. 
Or that you would hear from the diabetes nurse soon. 

@trophywench has already explained diabetes is about carbohydrates not just sugar .
The learning zone is a great 0lace to start. 

We are fine with dairy, protein in all it’s forms and providing you don’t have a condition where you’ve been told to reduce them, good fats are fine too in moderation. 
Some of us need to be careful with fruit, fir the time being stuck to fruit that has berry as part of its name .
Ask all the questions you need too we will do our best to help .


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## Barfly (Jul 4, 2021)

Felinia said:


> 0 out of 10 for patient service!  And it's very unusual to go straight in with 3 Metformin a day - you usually build up to it as it takes time to acclimatise and has side effects.  As you have been prescribed quite a high dose, it does suggest that your HbA1c is quite elevated, but you need to ask exactly what it was.  The receptionist would not be permitted to tell you.
> 
> As far as eating is concerned, you need to cut down on your carbs, not just sugar.  That is bread, potato, rice, pasta, root vegetables, processed food, most fruits, as those are what cause your blood sugar to spike.  As you do not have much weight to lose, I suggest you fill up on protein instead.  In the meantime, I suggest you work your way through the learning Zone for Type 2 diabetes, one module a day to take it in.  Also I suggest you keep a food diary, and prepare a list of questions to ask your GP.
> 
> You should take your Metformin in the middle of your meal.  If the Metformin upsets you, you can ask to be put on slow release, which is what I take.  Diabetics are supposed to get regular tests - the Learning Zone will outline them, and you should ask your GP when you will get them, an appointment with a dietician, and a training course.


Felinia-Crap doctor crap service you are right.  I have had no reaction at all to the metformin, not even the mostly reported loosening (how do you really say that politely?) that most have reported.  I eat pretty healthy (mostly) although I do love my fillet steaks and chips.  I suppose chips will now be a distant memory..... poxy salads here I come.....!!!


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## Barfly (Jul 4, 2021)

@Ljc   Thanks for the reply, I very much doubt the surgery will improve anytime soon.  It is a revolving door of new doctors and new faces, the practice nurse has been there for 3 years and she is regarded as an old hand!  The doctors can barely hide their furtive glances at their watches when with a patient.  What do you expect in Poole, there are so many wrinklies like me on their books here.


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## Barfly (Jul 4, 2021)

One thing that I am puzzled by is how do I know if my blood sugar levels ar wrong?  Up or down, I have never had any sort of symptoms, how do I test for it?   I'm an electronics engineer, maybe I'll do a bit of research and see if I can build some sort of test meter.  There are probably loads on the market but anything medical has a 1000% markup on it - I can probably build one for next to nothing.   Any ideas?
And thanks to all of you who have replied, this looks to be a great resource.
Cheers Tony


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## Leadinglights (Jul 4, 2021)

Barfly said:


> One thing that I am puzzled by is how do I know if my blood sugar levels ar wrong?  Up or down, I have never had any sort of symptoms, how do I test for it?   I'm an electronics engineer, maybe I'll do a bit of research and see if I can build some sort of test meter.  There are probably loads on the market but anything medical has a 1000% markup on it - I can probably build one for next to nothing.   Any ideas?
> And thanks to all of you who have replied, this looks to be a great resource.
> Cheers Tony


There are several inexpensive test monitors on the market which is a minute drop of blood from a finger prick applied to a test strip inserted into the monitor, test strips are specific to the monitor. A couple recommended as reliable are the GlucoNavil and Spirit TEE2 which are about £15 for the monitor and £13 for 100 strips can be obtained from Amazon. The monitors are usually cheap as the company makes their money from the cost of the strips.
By having a good testing strategy is invaluable for giving you the control of your blood glucose levels as you can adjust your food intake to minimise increases in levels from your meals.
It is unlikely that as a Type 2 you would be prescribes a monitor by you GP so would have to self fund.


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## Docb (Jul 4, 2021)

Hi @Barfly.  Poor performance from your surgery, that is for sure.  My best thought is to start to take charge and first off would be to demand that your surgery provides you with your HbA1c result.  That tells you where you are on the diabetic scale and gives you a decent guide on what you need to do to get things on track.  Second thought is to get up to speed on diabetes and what it means and there is no better way to do that than reading around this forum and checking out the learning zone on the red tab above. For somebody with a technical background it is not difficult to pick up the general principles and from that to formulate a plan.  Anybody with a bit of nous would soon question whether 1500mg metformin a day is the best opening gambit for treatment.  

One thing you will have to get used to is that the medics are very reluctant to measure anything and as such will generally not supply you with the means to do it.  Really frustrating if, like me, you spent most of your life measuring things as a means of understanding what is going on and working out the best way forward.  

A bit of research will show you that there are lots of glucose meters about and they all work on basically the same principal.  You jab a hole in a finger to get a drop of blood, dunk a test strip (all chemistry) into the drop and then use an electronic gizmo to measure some change in the test strip and convert it to a blood glucose reading.  Its the chemistry bit which will make things a bit of a challenge when it comes to a do it your self option.


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## Barfly (Jul 4, 2021)

@Docb 
Thanks for the detailed response.  If they are only a few quid, then I'll buy a few and check them out.  Normally medical stuff is hundreds of £, but I suppose diabetes is so common they are cheap.

I spent 33 years in Aussie, repatriating in 2014 and I have noticed the strange reluctance here for the medics to give you any paperwork on your own health.  In Aussie they inundate you with paperwork and give you all your x-rays and doppler printouts, they don't want to keep anything-just hand it all to you to look after.
It wasn't always like this, before we emigrated in 1982, we used to be given all our x-rays etc here too.   It's really weird how that has changed.
Thanks for the tip on the Hba1c readout - I'll demand that from the surgery.


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## Barfly (Jul 4, 2021)

Leadinglights said:


> There are several inexpensive test monitors on the market which is a minute drop of blood from a finger prick applied to a test strip inserted into the monitor, test strips are specific to the monitor. A couple recommended as reliable are the GlucoNavil and Spirit TEE2 which are about £15 for the monitor and £13 for 100 strips can be obtained from Amazon. The monitors are usually cheap as the company makes their money from the cost of the strips.
> By having a good testing strategy is invaluable for giving you the control of your blood glucose levels as you can adjust your food intake to minimise increases in levels from your meals.
> It is unlikely that as a Type 2 you would be prescribes a monitor by you GP so would have to self fund.


@Leadinglights
Thanks for the heads up on these items, will check them out.  Just had a quick look on Amazon-  what do you guys think of this one?  They claim it's used by St. John Ambulance....? https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Kinetik-...=1&keywords=gluconavii&qid=1625394937&sr=8-28
Tony


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## catmum36 (Jul 4, 2021)

I was actually told in the same way by my GP. Took me 2 weeks to get my prescription after ringing the surgery several times with them keep saying it had been sent to my pharmacy. I eventually got it sorted because i had a health check appointment with a locum doctor (my surgery is changing hands) and asked her to have a look for me, turns out the prescription was still sitting there! She sent it straight over and was able to collect it the same day. 
I have had a sweet taste in my mouth for over 2 months now which was why I rang the GP in the first place. I asked if this would go away when I started taking the tablets and was told by the locum that they didn't know. I was given Metformin but was told to build up to 3 tablets a day. (Been taking them just over a week now).


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## grovesy (Jul 4, 2021)

Barfly said:


> @Leadinglights
> Thanks for the heads up on these items, will check them out.  Just had a quick look on Amazon-  what do you guys think of this one?  They claim it's used by St. John Ambulance....? https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Kinetik-...=1&keywords=gluconavii&qid=1625394937&sr=8-28
> Tony


The strips for that monitor or some of the more expensive one. So if money tight you would be better going for one of the 2 recommended in the post higher up the thread.


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## Felinia (Jul 4, 2021)

Barfly said:


> Felinia-Crap doctor crap service you are right.  I have had no reaction at all to the metformin, not even the mostly reported loosening (how do you really say that politely?) that most have reported.  I eat pretty healthy (mostly) although I do love my fillet steaks and chips.  I suppose chips will now be a distant memory..... poxy salads here I come.....!!!


Try baked squash wedges sprinkled with a little paprika instead.  I treat myself to a steak once a month, and have it with cauliflower cheese.


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## Leadinglights (Jul 4, 2021)

Barfly said:


> @Leadinglights
> Thanks for the heads up on these items, will check them out.  Just had a quick look on Amazon-  what do you guys think of this one?  They claim it's used by St. John Ambulance....? https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Kinetik-...=1&keywords=gluconavii&qid=1625394937&sr=8-28
> Tony


Both the Kinetik monitor and the test strips are twice the price of the GlicoNavil or Tee2 and there is no reason to suppose that just because the Kinetik is used by St John A it is any more accurate as they all have to conform to the same standard.


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## Ljc (Jul 4, 2021)

Hi. Is their any chance you can change to a different practice , possibly not now but ASAP.

A little tip the more expensive meters and their testing strips strangely enough do not mean better accuracy, not sure where you are but meters sold in the uk have to conform to certain standards and the more expensive ones may have a few more gizmos, which in my option someone not on medications that can cause hypo’s may not actually need.

Do you know what your Hb1ac was ?

To find out how to  test youself to see how the various carbohydrates affect you soYou can make informed choices.
Test just before eating then around two hours after starting to eat.

As you are not on meds that can cause hypo’s, if you are no more than 3.0 mmol/l higher then that meal was fine, if not which is most likely atm then look to portion size of those carbohydrates or you may need to find substitutes.
In time your pre meal levels will come down .
It will also help if you keep a brutally honest food diary with your pre and post meal BG levels.


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## Drummer (Jul 4, 2021)

Barfly said:


> @Docb
> Thanks for the detailed response.  If they are only a few quid, then I'll buy a few and check them out.  Normally medical stuff is hundreds of £, but I suppose diabetes is so common they are cheap.
> 
> I spent 33 years in Aussie, repatriating in 2014 and I have noticed the strange reluctance here for the medics to give you any paperwork on your own health.  In Aussie they inundate you with paperwork and give you all your x-rays and doppler printouts, they don't want to keep anything-just hand it all to you to look after.
> ...


You can get the Spirit Healthcare Tee 2 + by registering on their website, answering an email to confirm you are diabetic and then you order directly and do not pay VAT.


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## Barfly (Jul 4, 2021)

grovesy said:


> The strips for that monitor or some of the more expensive one. So if money tight you would be better going for one of the 2 recommended in the post higher up the thread.


@grovesy 
No not that hard up, although  my daughter-in-law is doing her level best to rectify that situation.......


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## Barfly (Jul 4, 2021)

catmum36 said:


> I was actually told in the same way by my GP. Took me 2 weeks to get my prescription after ringing the surgery several times with them keep saying it had been sent to my pharmacy. I eventually got it sorted because i had a health check appointment with a locum doctor (my surgery is changing hands) and asked her to have a look for me, turns out the prescription was still sitting there! She sent it straight over and was able to collect it the same day.
> I have had a sweet taste in my mouth for over 2 months now which was why I rang the GP in the first place. I asked if this would go away when I started taking the tablets and was told by the locum that they didn't know. I was given Metformin but was told to build up to 3 tablets a day. (Been taking them just over a week now).


@catmum36 
Sounds like you got a worse deal even than I did - hope it gets better for you.  Tony


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## Barfly (Jul 4, 2021)

Ljc said:


> Hi. Is their any chance you can change to a different practice , possibly not now but ASAP.
> 
> A little tip the more expensive meters and their testing strips strangely enough do not mean better accuracy, not sure where you are but meters sold in the uk have to conform to certain standards and the more expensive ones may have a few more gizmos, which in my option someone not on medications that can cause hypo’s may not actually need.
> 
> ...


@Ljc 
The surgery is within walking distance for me, less than 1/4 mile there and back.  The next nearest ones are 1-2 miles away and both have no vacancies for patients just wanting a change.  The priorities are for families with children, which is just as it should be, I'm an old fart and not so important.
I have no idea what my Hb thingy was, they don't want to give you info they don't have to it seems.  I have done an online request for access to my full medical records, we'll see what transpires with that but I won't hold my breath.
So meds can cause hypos?    Umm..that's something of which I was unaware.

Brutally honest food diary.....now that WILL be hard!!    Maybe I should not have had that cheese and ham toastie for lunch.....
Cheers Tony.


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## Barfly (Jul 4, 2021)

Drummer said:


> You can get the Spirit Healthcare Tee 2 + by registering on their website, answering an email to confirm you are diabetic and then you order directly and do not pay VAT.


@Drummer 
I'll give that a go, thanks for the tips everyone.
Tony


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## Ljc (Jul 4, 2021)

Metformin normally does not cause hypo’s but others can .
Cheese and ham are fine but what you put it between may or may not be , only testing will tell.
They are not supposed to keep your blood results ect secret .

Hope you get online access soon,mi find it very helpful to go back and recheck things


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## Leadinglights (Jul 4, 2021)

Barfly said:


> @Ljc
> The surgery is within walking distance for me, less than 1/4 mile there and back.  The next nearest ones are 1-2 miles away and both have no vacancies for patients just wanting a change.  The priorities are for families with children, which is just as it should be, I'm an old fart and not so important.
> I have no idea what my Hb thingy was, they don't want to give you info they don't have to it seems.  I have done an online request for access to my full medical records, we'll see what transpires with that but I won't hold my breath.
> So meds can cause hypos?    Umm..that's something of which I was unaware.
> ...


You should ask for your HbA1C result as it gives a indication of your starting point, you have a right to know that information. Metformin is not one of the meds which cause genuine hypos, some people get similar symptoms but that is usually just the body adapting to lower glucose levels when you make dietary changes.
Protein and fats are not a problem, it is the carbs, so the cheese and ham are fine, some people can tolerate bread some not so well so that is where testing is useful. There are some lower carb breads around if you look carefully on the supermarket shelves. Burgen or livlife are lower than normal bread or some adventurous people make their own Keto bread.


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## trophywench (Jul 4, 2021)

Barfly said:


> @Leadinglights
> Thanks for the heads up on these items, will check them out.  Just had a quick look on Amazon-  what do you guys think of this one?  They claim it's used by St. John Ambulance....? https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Kinetik-...=1&keywords=gluconavii&qid=1625394937&sr=8-28
> Tony


I have no doubt whatsoever that it's a decent meter - to sell em in the UK the results have to be within a 10-15% tolerance, the better machines being nearer 10% -  but the meter is dearer to start off and the ongoing cost to the user ie you, are the strips and lancets so £11.75 for 50 strips rather than £8.

The meter I use - on prescription cos I'm T1 - is generally more accurate than 10% when I've checked veinous blood and asked the phlebotomist to request a straightforward BG test as well as the plethora of annual blood tests on the form - but the strips were in excess of £25 last time I bought some myself (don't ask - my own fault!) and in terms of what I need the results for frankly, 10-15% would be perfectly OK 99.99r% of the time.  I can dose insulin in divisions of 0.01units - but percentages of small numbers are even smaller numbers and cease to be of great import.  Yes yes, I do understand when you're an engineer that comment is blasphemy but we aren't talking about tolerances for machining tungsten carbide valves for a nuclear submarine, or making surgical implants for pet hamsters here, are we?

One thing I would suggest you do try and source though, is a Roche Accu-Chek 'Fastclix' finger lancing machine - and the lancing cassettes to fit. By far the kindest device for bodging holes in fingers - and I've had a bit of practice doing that!


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## Docb (Jul 4, 2021)

@Barfly 

If you read this,









						How to get your medical records
					

Medical records hold information about you. You'll have separate records for any NHS service you go to.




					www.nhs.uk
				




You will see that your GP is legally obliged to provide you with access to your records. Remind them of that if they are determined to be obstructive.

And less of the old fart nonsense! No reason for a GP practice to treat you as too senile to be bothered about on the basis of your wrinklyness.  If that became commonplace then a lot of us would be in deep trouble.


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## Barfly (Jul 5, 2021)

trophywench said:


> I have no doubt whatsoever that it's a decent meter - to sell em in the UK the results have to be within a 10-15% tolerance, the better machines being nearer 10% -  but the meter is dearer to start off and the ongoing cost to the user ie you, are the strips and lancets so £11.75 for 50 strips rather than £8.
> 
> The meter I use - on prescription cos I'm T1 - is generally more accurate than 10% when I've checked veinous blood and asked the phlebotomist to request a straightforward BG test as well as the plethora of annual blood tests on the form - but the strips were in excess of £25 last time I bought some myself (don't ask - my own fault!) and in terms of what I need the results for frankly, 10-15% would be perfectly OK 99.99r% of the time.  I can dose insulin in divisions of 0.01units - but percentages of small numbers are even smaller numbers and cease to be of great import.  Yes yes, I do understand when you're an engineer that comment is blasphemy but we aren't talking about tolerances for machining tungsten carbide valves for a nuclear submarine, or making surgical implants for pet hamsters here, are we?
> 
> One thing I would suggest you do try and source though, is a Roche Accu-Chek 'Fastclix' finger lancing machine - and the lancing cassettes to fit. By far the kindest device for bodging holes in fingers - and I've had a bit of practice doing that!


@trophywench Thanks for this Jenny, it's all a bit confusing for a newbie like me, my old brain can only accept so much info, then I go to bed and it's all dribbled out in the night and I have to go over it all again until it sinks in......

I have ordered the Tee2+ as recommended by @Drummer from ebay should be here before my 71st birthday on the 11th.
I think some pricking things are in the kit, when I've got through them I'll get one of the Fastclick ones you have advised.


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## Ljc (Jul 5, 2021)

The fast cix are the best ,  you will also need their lancing devise too as they won’t fit into other lancing devises .

Don’t worry it does take time for things to sink in especially when things are coming at you thick and fast as they are atm.  I promise you it will get easier.


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## Barfly (Jul 5, 2021)

Managed to access my records, a bit of a convoluted system to navigate, they really don't want you to get this information easily do they?

These are my blood test results, can anyone make any sense out of them?
Full blood count                       
Haemoglobin concentration               162 g/L [130.0 - 170.0]
Total white blood count                 7.8 10*9/L [4.0 - 11.0]
Platelet count - observation            280 10*9/L [150.0 - 400.0]
Red blood cell count                    5.01 10*12/L [4.5 - 5.5]
Haematocrit                             0.465 [0.4 - 0.54]
Mean cell volume                        92.8 fL [78.0 - 99.0]
Mean cell haemoglobin level             32.3 pg [27.0 - 32.0]
Above high reference limit
Mean cell haemoglobin concentration     348 g/L [310.0 - 360.0]
Neutrophil count                        4.3 10*9/L [2.0 - 7.5]
Lymphocyte count                        2.7 10*9/L [1.5 - 3.5]
Monocyte count - observation            0.6 10*9/L [0.2 - 1.4]
Eosinophil count - observation          0.2 10*9/L [0.0 - 0.4]
Basophil count                          0.1 10*9/L [0.0 - 0.1]
Nucleated red blood cell count          0.00 10*9/L [0.0 - 0.0]

It's all just so much gobbledegook to me.....   I presume the figures in brackets are the mean results for healthy individuals,  so I can't see what is so bad about mine.   I was once described as having borderline haemachromatosis (too much iron in my blood)  But I gave up red wines, liver and reduced my red meat intake so thought I'd be ok.


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## Robin (Jul 5, 2021)

Barfly said:


> Managed to access my records, a bit of a convoluted system to navigate, they really don't want you to get this information easily do they?
> 
> These are my blood test results, can anyone make any sense out of them?
> Full blood count
> ...


Are they the only resilts? They are a 'full blood count' which shows what is going on in all the components of your blood. It checks that your immune system, and clotting mechanisms etc are functioning properly, and that you aren’t anaemic. The first figure in each row is the result, and the bits in square brackets is the normal range you’d expect the results to be in. So if the first figure is somewhere between the figures in square brackets, it means they’re OK.

What would be more use, is if there’s other tests, especially one labelled 'HbA1c' which will tell you what your Blood glucose levels have been over the past three months.

Also, other tests usually done can include liver and kidney function, (LFTs for liver, and Creatinine, or estimated GFR for kidney) and sometimes Thyroid.(TSH)


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## Barfly (Jul 5, 2021)

@Robin 

Ahh there are 3 more:

_Plasma fasting glucose level     9.2 mmol/L [2.8 - 6.0]
Above high reference limit
Raised random glucose, consider further investigation for diabetes
Fasting blood_

and

_Haemoglobin A1c level - IFCC standardised     57 mmol/mol
IFCC non-diabetic normal range    25 - 41 mmol HbA1c/mol HbA
WARNING: HBA1c should not be used when red cell lifespan is
disturbed, eg. blood loss, haemolysis, transfusion._

and


_Pathology Investigations

Calcium/Albumin                                          
Serum calcium level                                      2.30 mmol/L [2.2 - 2.6]
Serum albumin level                                      46 g/L [35.0 - 48.0]
Serum adjusted calcium concentration                     2.28 mmol/L [2.2 - 2.6]
Calcium corrected for Albumin

Serum lipid levels                                       Treatment target is 40% reduction in Non HDLC.
Serum cholesterol level                                  5.7 mmol/L
Serum triglyceride levels                                2.3 mmol/L [0.5 - 2.3]
Serum HDL cholesterol level                              1.28 mmol/L
Serum non high density lipoprotein cholesterol level     4.4 mmol/L
Serum LDL cholesterol level                              3.4 mmol/L
Serum cholesterol/HDL ratio                              4.5

Renal profile                                            Multiply GFR by 1.21 if Afro-Caribbean race.
This result indicates Stage 3a CKD  (G3a)
Serum sodium level                                       139 mmol/L [132.0 - 146.0]
Serum potassium level                                    4.6 mmol/L [3.5 - 5.0]
Serum urea level                                         4.5 mmol/L [2.5 - 6.7]
Serum creatinine level                                   108 umol/L [59.0 - 104.0]
Above high reference limit
GFR calculated abbreviated MDRD                          59 ml/min/1.73m*2
Acute kidney injury warning stage                        NA

Thyroid function test                                    
Serum free T4 level                                      16 pmol/L [10.0 - 22.0]
Serum TSH level                                          1.6 mu/L [0.3 - 5.5]



_


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## Leadinglights (Jul 5, 2021)

From a non medical point of view most of those results are within the normal range except for your HbA1C which is 57mmol/mol which puts you in the diabetic zone being over 48mmol/mol but not grossly so and not as high as many people have started out. The other result is the total cholesterol at 5.7mmol/l which is higher than they usually like as it is above 4. Often the cholesterol will sort itself out with a low carb diet which is what you need to be looking at to bring your blood glucose levels down. The other blood results are looking for infection, kidney function and a host of other things which your GP should discuss with you and indicate any areas of concern if there are any.
You have been given some good advice in the above posts but just take your time to digest everything and come back with any questions.


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## Barfly (Jul 5, 2021)

Thanks @Leadinglights  for that.
When I had a blood test in Aussie, the clinician there told me not to be concerned about cholesterol at all.  He said the latest research said that a high count was not bad at all.
Apparently the medical profession always assumed from the 1800's when post-mortems were performed on heart attack victims, they always found high levels of cholesterol in and around the injury site, consequently they proclaimed that high cholesterol is a bad thing leading to heart attacks.  This has been the medicos prevailing view ever since and is taken as written in stone.
He told me the latest research could not support this cause and effect scenario, and they were doing a lot of investigations and had reached the conclusion that far from causing the injury, cholesterol was rushed to the injury site to protect the injury and was like a fire engine coming to put out a fire.  That was how he described it. 

I have not done any investigations on line about it and cannot vouch for it's veracity.  Just reporting what I was told a few years ago.
Tony


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## Robin (Jul 5, 2021)

Ah, they look like the full annual tests that I get. I wouldn’t worry about any marginal results at the moment, a lot of things in the body can be thrown out of whack by higher blood glucose, and they should settle down together.


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## Leadinglights (Jul 5, 2021)

Barfly said:


> Thanks @Leadinglights  for that.
> When I had a blood test in Aussie, the clinician there told me not to be concerned about cholesterol at all.  He said the latest research said that a high count was not bad at all.
> Apparently the medical profession always assumed from the 1800's when post-mortems were performed on heart attack victims, they always found high levels of cholesterol in and around the injury site, consequently they proclaimed that high cholesterol is a bad thing leading to heart attacks.  This has been the medicos prevailing view ever since and is taken as written in stone.
> He told me the latest research could not support this cause and effect scenario, and they were doing a lot of investigations and had reached the conclusion that far from causing the injury, cholesterol was rushed to the injury site to protect the injury and was like a fire engine coming to put out a fire.  That was how he described it.
> ...


Many people will agree with the cholesterol not being of too much concern but clinicians do seem to be obsessed with it being low, low, low for 'at risk' people. It is needed by the body for all sort of functions, synthesis of hormones, vitamin D, tissue repair but it does seem to be a matter of opinion whether a higher level is of concern, hence the rush to put people on statins.
I hope things make a bit more sense to you now.


----------



## Eddy Edson (Jul 6, 2021)

Leadinglights said:


> Many people will agree with the cholesterol not being of too much concern but clinicians do seem to be obsessed with it being low, low, low for 'at risk' people. It is needed by the body for all sort of functions, synthesis of hormones, vitamin D, tissue repair but it does seem to be a matter of opinion whether a higher level is of concern, hence the rush to put people on statins.
> I hope things make a bit more sense to you now.


The reason clinicians are "obsessed" with getting LDL cholesterol lower for at-risk people is because of the huge volume of consistent, high quality evidence from controlled trials and observational studies which demonstrates a clear link between LDL cholesterol levels and cardiovascular disease. The reason why statins are commonly recommended is because another very large, consistent and high-quality body of evidence demonstrates that they are very safe and very effective means for lowering LDL. 

This isn't a matter of "opinion" amongst experts.  People claiming to be "experts" who take a contrary line are generally quacks and grifters.


----------



## Barfly (Jul 6, 2021)

Thank you @Leadinglights and @Eddy Edson for your responses.
A balanced view is always helpful, I will continue on my unsteady path towards an even more healthy lifestyle.  No sugar is my primary goal, including cakes, ice cream and chocolate.   I can (just about) live without chocolate, but I simply cannot do the same for cheese.  A pal of mine who has T2 told me he was advised no more than a (small) matchbox size lump a day is ok. in conjunction with other measures.  I can live with that.
Cheers both-hey I hope a glass of white wine or scotch daily is ok????   My old Dr in aussie said it was ok was he so wrong?  Beer is another thing.........

Just did a quick Google and came up with this....not proven...but not disproven either....https://sciencenorway.no/cholestero...could-explain-old-cholesterol-mystery/1810159


----------



## Barfly (Jul 13, 2021)

Well it's been a fortnight since my diagnosis of T2 and I am learning to live with it.  
After much reading up I decided to ignore my doctor's advice and just take one metformin tablet after breakfast.

I bought the Tee2+ tester and I struggle to get it to send the info over to the smartphone.   I have to do two or three attempts to send it before the smartphone grabs the data.  Anyone else having this issue?   I'm pretty tech-savvy (ex tv engineer and ex computer systems admin) and I dread to think how others get on if I have this much trouble.
The other thing with which I really struggle is remembering the before and after meals testing my tests have been pretty haphazard so far.

I still don't know what is a "normal" glucose level and what is considered a hypo and a hyper.
I have settled on testing mainly after evening meal, is that what I should be doing?


device_id​seq_num​glucose(mg/dL)​glucose(mmol/L)​date​time​manual​cs​ketone​lo​hi​premeal​postmeal​nomark​fasting​event​insulin_type_1​insulin_amount_1(U)​insulin_type_2​insulin_amount_2(U)​carbs(g)​medicine​weight(lbs)​bp_low(mmHg)​bp_high(mmHg)​exercise​exercise_time(min)​memo​ketone_value(mmol/L)​gki_value​gki_glucose(mg/dL)​gki_ketone(mmol/L)​device_id_from​F046036K1674​6​180​10​2021-07-12​18:50:50​N​0​0​0​0​0​1​0​0​6​None[0]​0​None[0]​0​0​Metformin[3]​0​0​0​None[0]​0​​​​​​G​F046036K1674​5​225​12.5​2021-07-11​19:04:36​N​0​0​0​0​0​1​0​0​6​None[0]​0​None[0]​0​0​Metformin[3]​0​0​0​Low Intensity[1]​2​short bike ride​​​​​G​F046036K1674​4​259​14.4​2021-07-11​08:39:14​N​0​0​0​0​0​1​0​0​2​None[0]​0​None[0]​0​0​Metformin[3]​0​0​0​None[0]​0​​​​​​G​F046036K1674​3​259​14.4​2021-07-09​20:15:26​N​1​0​0​0​0​1​0​0​6​None[0]​0​None[0]​0​0​Metformin[3]​187.391​0​0​Medium Intensity[2]​10​10 miles ride​​​​​G​F046036K1674​2​155​8.6​2021-07-08​18:32:30​N​1​0​0​0​0​1​0​0​6​None[0]​0​None[0]​0​0​None[0]​0​0​0​None[0]​0​​​​​​G​F046036K1674​1​144​8​2021-07-08​17:59:57​N​0​0​0​0​1​0​0​0​5​None[0]​0​None[0]​0​0​None[0]​0​0​0​None[0]​0​​​​​​G​

I don't know if anyone can make any sense out of this excerpt from the spreadsheet the test kit sends to my email.


----------



## Drummer (Jul 13, 2021)

It doesn't make much sense as you don't seem to be testing according to the usual routine.
There is no need to get it to link to another device, test yourself before starting to eat and then two hours later, and to start off note the things you ate and the difference in the numbers - you can just click the back button to see the numbers.
If you see an increase of more than 2 mmol/l then reducing the high carb foods in the meal would mean a lower number next time - with any luck.


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## Barfly (Jul 13, 2021)

@Drummer - Thanks for the reply.  What is the usual routine?    *What is "normal" for the glucose level? * I still have absolutely no idea, all the reading I have done and I can't find this most basic of information......it is so weird.
I am perplexed.
Tony.


----------



## Drummer (Jul 13, 2021)

For a type two the important thing is to not eat the foods which cause spikes after a meal.
So take a reading as you are about to eat, then another two hours after that.
The first test should show you your present state - I would get a reading of about 5 these days - that is mmol/l, you don't need the US units.
Two hours later the number should be ideally no more than 3 whole numbers higher, 2 would show that the meal was good in carbohydrate terms - I can get as low as 1 because I just can't get my Hba1c to go below 42.
Once I got my actual reading to be no more than 8.3mmol/l I stopped doing the first test and just watched the numbers drift down as I went on eating the same things week on week, avoiding high carb foods.
You will find a lot of information in the manual which came with the meter - I suspect the usual Y chromosome aversion to reading the manual is the problem. Try pg 43.
Reading the manual has always been my super power/secret weapon.


----------



## rebrascora (Jul 13, 2021)

@Barfly Interesting article on cholesterol that you posted. I seem to buck the trend in that my diet is now very high in saturated fat and my cholesterol is continuing to reduce. I eat A LOT of good quality cheese and cream and fatty meat. I actively seek out the fattiest joints and cuts because they have more flavour. I have always loved fatty meat. I use any rendered fat during roasting to cook other food like eggs and veg in. I do think that eating a lot less carbs has an impact on that and I wonder if it may be the carbs together with the saturated fats which are the problem in the studies mentioned by @Eddy Edson I don't think there is any information about the other things people in those studies were eating. Nothing is ever simple or straight forward or unconnected to anything else in the body and it is easy to draw conclusions by just looking at one small system or aspect in isolation. 
I am no advocating that people eat as much saturated fat as me or as little carbs, we all have to find a balance that fits in with our tastes and lifestyle and what makes us feel "well" but I definitely feel so much fitter and healthier for eating a diet high in saturated fat and low in carbs and my cholestrol levels are reducing and my nurse and consultant are happy even though my level is currently 4.5 and no need for talk of statins. My nurse today actually said "your cholesterol level is good"!

As regards your data, post meal readings are pretty meaningless without being linked to a pre meal reading and a food diary. You need to be looking at the difference between the pre and 2hr post meal reading to see how the food you ate in that meal and particularly the carbohydrate element, affected your levels. BG levels fluctuate quite significantly throughout the day and night depending upon a large number of factors. The pre meal reading helps to isolate the rise in BG level due to that meal. Without it you have no baseline. 
If you are "pretty tech-savvy" then set an alarm to remind you to test before and after meals  

The MySugr app can be helpful to record readings and food intake and plot graphs and stuff. On a graph you will see a lot easier when your BG levels spike too high and then it is just a question of reducing the carb content of that meal and trying again next time you have it until you get the portion size to a point that your body can cope with it or ditch that particular carb type in favour of something else. You are looking for a rise in BG of less than 3mmols during that period but ideally no more than 2mmols most of the time. Sometimes the post meal reading might be lower than the pre meal reading and that is OK and shows that your body is starting to work more efficiently with it's own insulin to reduce levels.

The "normal range" for BG is considered to be 4-7 before a meal and below 8.5 2 hours post meal, but is is worth understanding that non diabetic people can drop below 4 and go above 10 very occasionally, usually just for brief spells until their body regulates it and brings them back into balance. For instance it would not be uncommon for some people to drop below 4 in the depths of sleep or unreasonable for them to hit 10 if they ate a couple of Mars Bars on the trot but their bodies will release glucose from the liver in the first instance or release insulin in the second to rebalance it.

As a Type 2 your body has likely become insulin resistant so it is unable to efficiently remove the excess glucose in your blood and so your levels stay high for too long and the body starts to adjust to this new higher level and see it as normal so the balancing process gets out of calibration. By reducing the amount of carbs you put in and increasing exercise to use up the glucose which is already there (if you are able), the levels have a chance to start coming down and the body has the opportunity to come back into balance.

Hopefully that makes sense. It is a rather over simplified explanation as biological systems are pretty messy and interrelated with lots of other factors having an impact, so trying to isolate and understand just one small system on it's own has it's drawbacks...... Which is probably why the cholesterol question is still hotly debated!


----------



## helli (Jul 13, 2021)

Barfly said:


> Well it's been a fortnight since my diagnosis of T2 and I am learning to live with it.
> After much reading up I decided to ignore my doctor's advice and just take one metformin tablet after breakfast.
> 
> I bought the Tee2+ tester and I struggle to get it to send the info over to the smartphone.   I have to do two or three attempts to send it before the smartphone grabs the data.  Anyone else having this issue?   I'm pretty tech-savvy (ex tv engineer and ex computer systems admin) and I dread to think how others get on if I have this much trouble.
> ...


The columns I would take note of are 
- glucose mmol/L 
- date
- time

@Drummer has provided advice when to test and what to look out for. 
I have Type 1 which is different to type 2 as it is treated differently so I prefer not to leave it to someone with personal experience to advise.

Over time, as you adjust your diet, hopefully, you will see the values in the glucose (mmol/L) column follow a downward trend.

(Incidentally, the column glucose (mg/dL) shows the same thing in the units, typically, used in the USA.)


----------



## Barfly (Jul 13, 2021)

rebrascora said:


> @Barfly Interesting article on cholesterol that you posted. I seem to buck the trend in that my diet is now very high in saturated fat and my cholesterol is continuing to reduce. I eat A LOT of good quality cheese and cream and fatty meat. I actively seek out the fattiest joints and cuts because they have more flavour. I have always loved fatty meat. I use any rendered fat during roasting to cook other food like eggs and veg in. I do think that eating a lot less carbs has an impact on that and I wonder if it may be the carbs together with the saturated fats which are the problem in the studies mentioned by @Eddy Edson I don't think there is any information about the other things people in those studies were eating. Nothing is ever simple or straight forward or unconnected to anything else in the body and it is easy to draw conclusions by just looking at one small system or aspect in isolation.
> I am no advocating that people eat as much saturated fat as me or as little carbs, we all have to find a balance that fits in with our tastes and lifestyle and what makes us feel "well" but I definitely feel so much fitter and healthier for eating a diet high in saturated fat and low in carbs and my cholestrol levels are reducing and my nurse and consultant are happy even though my level is currently 4.5 and no need for talk of statins. My nurse today actually said "your cholesterol level is good"!
> 
> As regards your data, post meal readings are pretty meaningless without being linked to a pre meal reading and a food diary. You need to be looking at the difference between the pre and 2hr post meal reading to see how the food you ate in that meal and particularly the carbohydrate element, affected your levels. BG levels fluctuate quite significantly throughout the day and night depending upon a large number of factors. The pre meal reading helps to isolate the rise in BG level due to that meal. Without it you have no baseline.
> ...


@rebrascora   Wow, that's a pretty involved post lots to absorb.  Primary take is get myself properly organised with my testing regime.   Before and after meals.  Got it.  Also thanks for heads up on "normal" ranges.  4-7 and <8.5  OK


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## Barfly (Jul 13, 2021)

Drummer said:


> For a type two the important thing is to not eat the foods which cause spikes after a meal.
> So take a reading as you are about to eat, then another two hours after that.
> The first test should show you your present state - I would get a reading of about 5 these days - that is mmol/l, you don't need the US units.
> Two hours later the number should be ideally no more than 3 whole numbers higher, 2 would show that the meal was good in carbohydrate terms - I can get as low as 1 because I just can't get my Hba1c to go below 42.
> ...


@Drummer   Read the manual..blimey whatever next?  Another nugget from you to say test 2 hours after a meal, I was doing it straight after-silly me...doh.


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## Barfly (Jul 13, 2021)

helli said:


> The columns I would take note of are
> - glucose mmol/L
> - date
> - time
> ...


@helli  Ok that's the take I had on it, thos 3 columns.  Thanks.


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## Eddy Edson (Jul 13, 2021)

rebrascora said:


> I do think that eating a lot less carbs has an impact on that and I wonder if it may be the carbs together with the saturated fats which are the problem in the studies mentioned by @Eddy Edson I don't think there is any information about the other things people in those studies were eating.


There is a wealth of studies addressing this kind of issue. A convenient review by the American Heart Association on the impact of dietary fats:



			https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1161/CIR.0000000000000510
		


Replacing satfats by mono- or polyunsaturated fats is good; replacing satfats by whole grains is also good; replacing satfats by refined carbs is bad.



(Referenced to risk of CV disease.)

The overwhelming majority of credible experts in the field align on this. The opposing view is held largely by quacks and grifters, as I say.


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## Barfly (Jul 13, 2021)

I am also increasing my exercise regime.  I am increasing my normal weekly ride to twice weekly rising to 3 times a week soon and increasing the distance to at least 10 miles.  It's a very pleasant ride from Hengistbury Head to Mudeford spit and through Wick village to Christchurch High St via the River path to Christchurch Priory and back.  Too many visitors in the way this year though!
That's what you get for living in a holiday town like Bournemouth/Poole.
I thank all of you for your help, this is a great resource.
Tony


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## rebrascora (Jul 13, 2021)

Sorry if it was information overload.... (Holding hands up emoji.... guilty M'Lord!  )  just wanted to say don't be worried about enjoying your wine or whiskey and cheese as they will not impact your BG levels but the alcohol is empty calories (and the cheese full calories)  if you need to lose weight, so best to stick to an occasional treat and or small portions.

Don't expect to hit those "normal" targets when you are newly diagnosed, you are just working towards those. The important thing at this stage is to reduce your "meal rise" to less than 3mmols. Once you achieve this regularly over all your meals, your pre-meal levels should start to reduce as a consequence and you will start to get readings in that "normal range", usually at the top end initially and then gradually decreasing. For me getting my first reading in single figures was a huge cause for celebration and then getting a reading in the 7s etc. Little goals and milestones.

You might find it easier to start with breakfast rather than your evening meal as most people have pretty much the same breakfast every morning so it is easier to test that each day over a week or so and tweak it to get it to no more than a 3 mmol rise, then you could work on intensively testing lunch and not test breakfast for a few days but just keep to whatever gave you good results. Gradually you will build up a resume of meals which you know don't cause you too much BG upheaval and you won't need to test so often, but the first few months do need quite a bit of work to figure out what you personally can get away with and what you need to kick into touch or drastically reduce the portion size of or restrict to just a very occasional treat.. ie birthday and Christmas. It's about making informed choices based on the information your BG meter gives you.


----------



## Barfly (Jul 13, 2021)

rebrascora said:


> @Barfly Interesting article on cholesterol that you posted. I seem to buck the trend in that my diet is now very high in saturated fat and my cholesterol is continuing to reduce. I eat A LOT of good quality cheese and cream and fatty meat. I actively seek out the fattiest joints and cuts because they have more flavour. I have always loved fatty meat. I use any rendered fat during roasting to cook other food like eggs and veg in. I do think that eating a lot less carbs has an impact on that and I wonder if it may be the carbs together with the saturated fats which are the problem in the studies mentioned by @Eddy Edson I don't think there is any information about the other things people in those studies were eating. Nothing is ever simple or straight forward or unconnected to anything else in the body and it is easy to draw conclusions by just looking at one small system or aspect in isolation.
> I am no advocating that people eat as much saturated fat as me or as little carbs, we all have to find a balance that fits in with our tastes and lifestyle and what makes us feel "well" but I definitely feel so much fitter and healthier for eating a diet high in saturated fat and low in carbs and my cholestrol levels are reducing and my nurse and consultant are happy even though my level is currently 4.5 and no need for talk of statins. My nurse today actually said "your cholesterol level is good"!
> 
> As regards your data, post meal readings are pretty meaningless without being linked to a pre meal reading and a food diary. You need to be looking at the difference between the pre and 2hr post meal reading to see how the food you ate in that meal and particularly the carbohydrate element, affected your levels. BG levels fluctuate quite significantly throughout the day and night depending upon a large number of factors. The pre meal reading helps to isolate the rise in BG level due to that meal. Without it you have no baseline.
> ...


Barbara-  I just installed the mysugr app and it asks what measuerments we use for carbs.  What is normal?
Tony.


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## rebrascora (Jul 13, 2021)

Barfly said:


> Barbara-  I just installed the mysugr app and it asks what measuerments we use for carbs.  What is normal?
> Tony.


grams


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## rebrascora (Jul 13, 2021)

There are a lot of features of that app which will not necessarily be useful to you and at this stage you might be taking on too much to start carb counting so I wouldn't worry too much about that and just use it to list basic meal content and readings.... So... 2 slices wholemeal bread toasted with 3 scrambled eggs. 4 pieces of new potatoes with salmon and broccoli... that sort of thing.... Just so you can look back and think "How can I reduce the carb content a bit as that meal gave me too much of a rise in BG last time", so you might try 1.5 slices of toast with your scrambled eggs instead and see how that works  or 3 potatoes instead of 4 next time.


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## Drummer (Jul 13, 2021)

Barfly said:


> I am also increasing my exercise regime.  I am increasing my normal weekly ride to twice weekly rising to 3 times a week soon and increasing the distance to at least 10 miles.  It's a very pleasant ride from Hengistbury Head to Mudeford spit and through Wick village to Christchurch High St via the River path to Christchurch Priory and back.  Too many visitors in the way this year though!
> That's what you get for living in a holiday town like Bournemouth/Poole.
> I thank all of you for your help, this is a great resource.
> Tony


Well well - small world - I'm in Parkstone.


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## Barfly (Jul 14, 2021)

@Drummer   Talbot Village.


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## Eddy Edson (Jul 14, 2021)

Eddy Edson said:


> There is a wealth of studies addressing this kind of issue. A convenient review by the American Heart Association on the impact of dietary fats:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And then the connection between LDL cholesterol and diseases associated with atherosclerosis is similarly universally accepted by non-quack non-grifter genuine experts in the field.  See these studies for painfully detailed consensus reviews of the evidence from the European Atherosclerosis Society:



			https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/article/41/24/2313/5735221
		









						Low-density lipoproteins cause atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease. 1. Evidence from genetic, epidemiologic, and clinical studies. A consensus statement from the European Atherosclerosis Society Consensus Panel
					

AbstractAims. To appraise the clinical and genetic evidence that low-density lipoproteins (LDLs) cause atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease (ASCVD).Methods an




					academic.oup.com
				




This diagram summarises the findings from dozens of trials and studies:


Overall, dropping LDL by 1.0 mmol/L reduces heart disease risk by an average of 20%,  a bit more if you're starting from a high base.  

Notice the focus on LDL, not "ratios".  The best international guidelines IMO recognise that LDL is the main issue. (A couple of years ago the NICE surveillance committee took note of this evidence, and recommended a re-focus on LDL reduction, as against ratios, but for whatever reason nothing has happened.)


----------



## Barfly (Jul 14, 2021)

Eddy Edson said:


> And then the connection between LDL cholesterol and diseases associated with atherosclerosis is similarly universally accepted by non-quack non-grifter genuine experts in the field.  See these studies for painfully detailed consensus reviews of the evidence from the European Atherosclerosis Society:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


@Eddy Edson 
You are really on a mission here, I'm sorry to say I was overwhelmed and had enough after the first link!
I hope you are managing your circulatory issues ok.
Cheers Tony.


----------



## Barfly (Jul 29, 2021)

I have been monitoring my BG levels on a more regular basis and getting into a routine.   I have noticed on reading through the "Group 7 day waking average" thread on here, my levels are way higher than most others.  The lowest reading I have so far managed is 8.0, my highest is 15.0.  The average seems to be 5-8.   Also my fluctuations are massive compared to everyone else's.
Is this because I am a newbie and not controlling it yet or am I just some sort of diabetic freak?

I also struggle to find anything to replace bread in my diet.  Lunch is a small snack for me usually main meal at night, and so sandwiches, toasties and all things bready have been my go-to for as many years as I can remember.   I really need to find something to replace bread....but what?  It's all pervasive as a lunch food.

Tony


----------



## everydayupsanddowns (Jul 29, 2021)

Barfly said:


> I have been monitoring my BG levels on a more regular basis and getting into a routine.   I have noticed on reading through the "Group 7 day waking average" thread on here, my levels are way higher than most others.  The lowest reading I have so far managed is 8.0, my highest is 15.0.  The average seems to be 5-8.   Also my fluctuations are massive compared to everyone else's.
> Is this because I am a newbie and not controlling it yet or am I just some sort of diabetic freak?


Many newcomer T2s seem to find that morning levels are the last to come into range, and the most stubborn. This can be a combination of the effect of Dawn Phenomenon, where the liver releases glucose to fire up the burners for the day either in the early hours or as soon as you get out of bed. People also often find that they are more insulin resistant in the mornings, so carbs are less tolerated at breakfast than they would be later in the day.


Barfly said:


> I also struggle to find anything to replace bread in my diet.  Lunch is a small snack for me usually main meal at night, and so sandwiches, toasties and all things bready have been my go-to for as many years as I can remember.   I really need to find something to replace bread....but what?  It's all pervasive as a lunch food.
> 
> Tony



Yes I can imagine that’s a real challenge. You might find some ideas and inspiration in the ‘What did you eat yesterday?’ thread.

Some people find it sufficient to go for a lower carb / low GI bread (usually something seedy), or halve the carb load with only one slice as an open sandwich. Others explore options like ryvita, rice cakes, wraps or similar which may not have the 35g-40g(ish) pricetag of regular bread. Others find their best bet is a complete rethink, and transfer to a much wider (and arguably far more varied and interesting) mixture of salads, omelettes, egg tortilla, leftovers, and all sorts of other goodies.

At the end of the day it has to work for you, and be sustainable. Just experiment with a few options and see how your BG meter likes them


----------



## Barfly (Jul 29, 2021)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Many newcomer T2s seem to find that morning levels are the last to come into range, and the most stubborn. This can be a combination of the effect of Dawn Phenomenon, where the liver releases glucose to fire up the burners for the day either in the early hours or as soon as you get out of bed. People also often find that they are more insulin resistant in the mornings, so carbs are less tolerated at breakfast than they would be later in the day.
> 
> 
> Yes I can imagine that’s a real challenge. You might find some ideas and inspiration in the ‘What did you eat yesterday?’ thread.
> ...


Thanks for this Mike, reassuring for me.  All this PC foodstuff new age type is so alien to me as an old fart brought up on bread and dripping sandwiches with lashings of salt after the war.....Old dog new tricks eh?


----------



## Drummer (Jul 29, 2021)

Barfly said:


> I have been monitoring my BG levels on a more regular basis and getting into a routine.   I have noticed on reading through the "Group 7 day waking average" thread on here, my levels are way higher than most others.  The lowest reading I have so far managed is 8.0, my highest is 15.0.  The average seems to be 5-8.   Also my fluctuations are massive compared to everyone else's.
> Is this because I am a newbie and not controlling it yet or am I just some sort of diabetic freak?
> 
> I also struggle to find anything to replace bread in my diet.  Lunch is a small snack for me usually main meal at night, and so sandwiches, toasties and all things bready have been my go-to for as many years as I can remember.   I really need to find something to replace bread....but what?  It's all pervasive as a lunch food.
> ...


After a few years eating low carb I don't need to eat lunch, but after some sleepless nights due to the heat I have been rising late and I have made 'chaffles' - cheese waffles. I bought yet another kitchen toy - a waffle maker, but apparently the mix makes good 'wraps' when cooked in a frying pan.
I make bacon 'chaffies' - a cheese waffle with an extra thick rasher of bacon - or as many skinny ones as you can manage to enclose - I have been considering the wrap variant and tuna salad but on days when it has been too hot, it is just too hot even to eat.
When you get a high spice after eating then a change to the menu is indicated, and as the spikes reduce then everything else should follow suite.


----------



## rebrascora (Jul 29, 2021)

Hi. When you say the average seems to be 5-8. Do you mean your other readings through the day, or do you mean the average readings on the "Group 7 day waking average" thread? Just trying to get an idea of whether it is just your morning readings which are out of range or your readings in general?  Could you give us an example of a days readings with your menu for that day, so that we have an idea of how your levels are responding to the food you are eating?

Keeping a food diary along with your before and 2 hours after meal readings is an important aspect of figuring it all out in the early days, so do do that if you aren't already and having a structured test routine. You mentioned random testing on the other thread which is why I mention this. 

As regards bread, it was one of the things I found most difficult/mind boggling when I first started eating low carb. It is a logistical problem as much as a cultural and dietary shock. We have based our meals around bread for pretty much all our lives and it is a carrier for so many foods which made it the most difficult aspect of changing my diet. Yes I also enjoyed bread but it was the convenience of it which I probably missed most. 

Some people buy low carb bread like LivLife or Bergen (if you can manage to source it... it is like gold dust) or Hovis do one I think and some people bake their own but you do need specialist ingredients, some of which you would need to buy online as they are not available in your average supermarket, but you can then use a bread maker for it or give your arm and back muscles a work out and knead it by hand which will also be good for your diabetes management as is any exercise. 
I went cold turkey and just cut it out altogether and learned to eat foods that don't need it but it was a slow and frustrating process until I broke the habit. I don't miss it now but it took time to get my head around it. 
There are rare occasions when I will make a chaffle and use that instead. This is a combination of beaten egg and grated cheese. I also add a tiny bit of psyllium husk or you can add a teaspoon of coconut flour or ground almonds to give it more substance but I try not to use almond products as much as possible because of their environmental impact. Basically you make a batter with the eggs and cheese beaten together and either put it in a waffle maker or I cook it as a large pancake in a hot frying pan in a little lard or coconut oil. I end up with what is essentially a very thin cheese omelette but works really well when cool as a wrap or carrier for sandwich filling. I really enjoyed it filled with fried black pudding, mushrooms, lettuce, mayonnaise and a couple of thinly sliced cherry tomatoes. You could of course use bacon for a BLT sandwich or sausages, or probably tuna salad. You could make 2 or 3 at a time and store them for use later. They certainly keep fine for a couple of days and just take a few minutes to make.

Anyway, stick at it. It does take time to get it sorted mentally with a new diet as well as levels to start settling down. The important thing is to look at long term trends rather than individual readings which do vary but it is normal for things to be quite erratic at first until you figure out what works for you.


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## Barfly (Jul 29, 2021)

rebrascora said:


> Hi. When you say the average seems to be 5-8. Do you mean your other readings through the day, or do you mean the average readings on the "Group 7 day waking average" thread? Just trying to get an idea of whether it is just your morning readings which are out of range or your readings in general?  Could you give us an example of a days readings with your menu for that day, so that we have an idea of how your levels are responding to the food you are eating?
> 
> Keeping a food diary along with your before and 2 hours after meal readings is an important aspect of figuring it all out in the early days, so do do that if you aren't already and having a structured test routine. You mentioned random testing on the other thread which is why I mention this.
> 
> ...


Barbara- Thank you for taking the time and effort to try and steer me through these changes.   My real problem is I'm an old meat and three veg man.  My idea of exotic foods is spaghetti bolognese or a Chinese from the local take-away, I am still struggling to understand what these new-fangled things called paninis and ciabattas actually are.   You can see I'm pretty hopeless.  I go to a restaurant and if there's no fillet steak on the menu I walk out.  I did try a souffle once in Bordeau and it was pretty good....

So what the hell is a psylium husk?  Is it some sort of male appendage from the lesser-spotted Borneo marmoset?  Now you have me completely bamboozled........


> When you say the average seems to be 5-8. Do you mean your other readings through the day, or do you mean the average readings on the "Group 7 day waking average" thread?


Yes, from the other people in the thread, mine fluctuate wildly from an all-time low of about 7.0 early am before breakfast to a high of 15.9 during the day.

I have attached the raw txt files as this site does not allow spreadsheets.  The spreadsheet has data from my home tests with my meter inserted, I have put the raw data in the last text file.  The spreadsheet is far easier to read, sorry I can't send it.
Thanks for the idea of a "chaffle".   I do enjoy an omelette so this will undoubtedly be my go-to in the future for picnics etc.
Trouble is I really love the extra-strong matured cheddar and I'm not so sure how that will go with the chaffles...
Thanks again, Tony.


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## rebrascora (Jul 29, 2021)

I can assure you that psyllium husk isn't phallic in any way that I am aware of. It is just a fibre supplement which is the main ingredient of Fibogel, the stuff they give older people to keep them regular. 
It is clever stuff because it absorbs water to form a soluble Fibre gel which is really good for your digestive system but you can also use it to thicken sauces and batters instead of flour and pretty well carb free. I use a scoop of it in water on a morning with a dash of Apple Cider Vinegar to improve my gut health but it also gets used if I am baking or making a chaffle. A little goes a very long way, but certainly not essential when it comes to making chaffles. I too am a fan of mature cheddar and blue stilton. Not tried a chaffle with the latter but the mature cheddar is fine. I suppose it depends what you are going to have in your chaffle as to whether it goes or not but most things are improved by cheese. 

It looks like you have modified your breakfast and cut the slice of toast which is a good first move. You should be trying to make slow sustainable reduction in your carb intake so just making small alterations like that here and there is a good way to do it and I think I see a slight downward trend in your readings but it is early days to see significant improvement and it doesn't look like you have been testing enough to get meaningful data yet.
You might want to weigh your muesli portion and calculating the carbs in it and then use a little plastic carton to mark the level, so that you are getting near enough the same portion every day, because it is so easy to slowly increase how much you dish out each day over a period of time and the suggested portion of these things tends to be much smaller than we end up eating, so it helps to weigh out the recommended portion size and get used to eating that amount. Then maybe shop around for a lower carb variety or swap to a low carb granola as your next move and have it with some full fat Greek natural yoghurt instead of milk... this will help to keep you feeling full for longer because it is more substantial than milk. And then maybe swap your orange for some berries like rasps or blackberries and mix them in with your yoghurt and granola/muesli. Just little tweaks here and there to bring the carb content down slowly.

I also enjoy a glass of port with some nice cheese on an evening or a G&T with olives. Port will raise my levels a little bit (gin doesn't at all)  but I do enjoy it and I don't have many carbs throughout the day so feel I can treat myself to a little luxury like that on an evening.


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## Barfly (Jul 30, 2021)

Drummer said:


> I eat the same way every day - I go out at weekends, in normal times, and it is much easer to eat early, then be out all day - I take water and sometimes a flask of coffee, then eat again when I get home. It means I don't have to worry about taking or finding food out of the house.


I couldn't manage that, but well done you if it works for you.


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## Barfly (Jul 30, 2021)

rebrascora said:


> I can assure you that psyllium husk isn't phallic in any way that I am aware of. It is just a fibre supplement which is the main ingredient of Fibogel, the stuff they give older people to keep them regular.
> It is clever stuff because it absorbs water to form a soluble Fibre gel which is really good for your digestive system but you can also use it to thicken sauces and batters instead of flour and pretty well carb free. I use a scoop of it in water on a morning with a dash of Apple Cider Vinegar to improve my gut health but it also gets used if I am baking or making a chaffle. A little goes a very long way, but certainly not essential when it comes to making chaffles. I too am a fan of mature cheddar and blue stilton. Not tried a chaffle with the latter but the mature cheddar is fine. I suppose it depends what you are going to have in your chaffle as to whether it goes or not but most things are improved by cheese.
> 
> It looks like you have modified your breakfast and cut the slice of toast which is a good first move. You should be trying to make slow sustainable reduction in your carb intake so just making small alterations like that here and there is a good way to do it and I think I see a slight downward trend in your readings but it is early days to see significant improvement and it doesn't look like you have been testing enough to get meaningful data yet.
> ...


OK I have already replaced my cornflakes with milk and lashings of cream with 2 spoons of white sugar with a bowl of muesli, removed my toast now you want me to replace milk with yogurt...a step too far for me I'm afraid Barbara.  I eat the orange for my daily vitimin c., so won't be replacing that, I may add some sort of berries though down the track.
I have marked a cup with my normal muesli portion, that's another good idea, one day I'll get round to weighing it if I can find the kitchen scales somewhere in the back of a cupboard (we live in a granny/grandad flat so room is at a premium).
Don't get the wrong idea I'm not some sort of alcoholic, I only have a drink maybe twice a week.  My one glass of rose every 3-4 evenings with my meal.
There is no way I could do @Drummer's thing of eating mornings and evenings only that's way over the top for me.
Cheers Tony.


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## Docb (Jul 30, 2021)

@Barfly - something I found.... the dried fruit in a decent muesli was a killer, instant double figures.  You might get away with it but I couldn't.  

These days make my own from toasted oats, lots of toasted nuts and seeds.  Eat it with plain Greek yoghourt and some milk.


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## Barfly (Jul 30, 2021)

Blimey-you guys are all angels compared to me ---make your own muesli?? Wow, when do you find the time?  In between looking after my autistic gdaughter a couple of days a week, my volunteering at the NHS and my men's shed duties, I wonder how I ever fount the time to work.....


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## Docb (Jul 30, 2021)

Easy... bag of rolled oats, bung in big tray.  Bag of nuts, chop and bung in with oats (time about 5 mins).  Put in medium oven (15 secs).  Go and do something else but pop back now and then to stir.  When toasted, leave to cool somewhere whilst you go off and do something else.  When cool, put in container and stir in pack of mixed seeds (2 minutes).  There you go, muesli (or granola depending on how posh you are) in under 10 minutes attention time.  Fraction of the cost of the packet muesli and you know exactly what is in it.  

Don't believe all that feminist nonsense, blokes can multitask!


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## rebrascora (Jul 30, 2021)

Barfly said:


> I eat the orange for my daily vitimin c., so won't be replacing that, I may add some sort of berries though down the track.


Berries contain vitamin C too plus all sorts of other benefits like antioxidants, especially blackcurrants which are "current"ly in season, but importantly for your diabetes management, less carbs than oranges. Cabbage/kale etc is also a good source of Vitamin C and fibre and one of the things that it pays to eat more of as diabetics. I sweat mine in a knob of butter and/or toss in bacon fat, so you don't need your orange to provide Vit C. If you really enjoy it, then fair enough, but be aware that it adds to your carbohydrate intake more than berries would, and what you find when you are tailoring your diet to manage your diabetes is that you have to whittle down your carbs and make choices over which foods you are prepared to sacrifice/remove from the menu to accommodate the ones you really want to keep.    
Raspberries are probably my favourite berry and one of the lowest carb fruits you can find and also in season now..... but a portion for me is just 8-10 raspberries. A little goes a long way with berries because they are nutrient dense and flavourful.


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## Barfly (Jul 30, 2021)

Docb said:


> Easy... bag of rolled oats, bung in big tray.  Bag of nuts, chop and bung in with oats (time about 5 mins).  Put in medium oven (15 secs).  Go and do something else but pop back now and then to stir.  When toasted, leave to cool somewhere whilst you go off and do something else.  When cool, put in container and stir in pack of mixed seeds (2 minutes).  There you go, muesli (or granola depending on how posh you are) in under 10 minutes attention time.  Fraction of the cost of the packet muesli and you know exactly what is in it.
> 
> Don't believe all that feminist nonsense, blokes can multitask!


One problem I just bought 7 packets of my normal stuff (ok'd by nursie) on special at Waitrose, 1/3rd the normal price.  Take me a few weeks to get through that lot....


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## Barfly (Aug 11, 2021)

I have been eating the same breakfast now for six weeks or more, and still have wild fluctuations in my pre and post breakfast readings.  I try to do 2 hrs between brekkie and the last test.  This is the result over these six weeks:



> July 2021 pre and post breakfast differences in mmol/L
> 
> 27/7    6.6
> 28/7    5.0
> ...



This is my breakfast: 50gm museli, orange    I bought a mini-scale and measure my muesli now.


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## Leadinglights (Aug 11, 2021)

Barfly said:


> I have been eating the same breakfast now for six weeks or more, and still have wild fluctuations in my pre and post breakfast readings.  I try to do 2 hrs between brekkie and the last test.  This is the result over these six weeks:
> 
> 
> 
> This is my breakfast: 50gm museli, orange    I bought a mini-scale and measure my muesli now.


Those readings look very odd, especially the 0.0 and others which are all distinctly low and well below what you would normally expect for before meal reading which would 4-7mmol/l


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## Robin (Aug 11, 2021)

Leadinglights said:


> Those readings look very odd, especially the 0.0 and others which are all distinctly low and well below what you would normally expect for before meal reading which would 4-7mmol/l


I think the numbers are the difference between the pre and post meal readings, not the actual readings. (and presume the minus figure is where Barfly was lower after breakfast than before)
They look much more settled in August than July, @Barfly , and don’t forget there’s some leeway with meter accuracy as well.


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## Barfly (Aug 12, 2021)

Robin said:


> I think the numbers are the difference between the pre and post meal readings, not the actual readings. (and presume the minus figure is where Barfly was lower after breakfast than before)
> They look much more settled in August than July, @Barfly , and don’t forget there’s some leeway with meter accuracy as well.


@Robin 
Yes you are right, I really should try and make myself clearer.   They are the _differences_ between the pre and post brekkie readings.


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## Docb (Aug 12, 2021)

@Barfly - is there any dried fruit in the muesli? Found very early on that my favourite muesli had to go because when one breakfast pushed me well into double figures and a bit of experimentation showed that it was the dried fruit was the culprit. Now make my own mix of toasted oats, nuts and seeds which works very well and keeps blood glucose well within bounds.


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## Barfly (Aug 12, 2021)

Docb said:


> @Barfly - is there any dried fruit in the muesli? Found very early on that my favourite muesli had to go because when one breakfast pushed me well into double figures and a bit of experimentation showed that it was the dried fruit was the culprit. Now make my own mix of toasted oats, nuts and seeds which works very well and keeps blood glucose well within bounds.


The one I use is Jordan's Fruit and Nut Muesli in the purple box.  Hard to come by, my local Waitrose are the only (intermittent) stockists.  

It does contain fruit, but has only 14g of sugar per 100g.  My diabetes nurse said it was ok, so when it was on special I bought 6 boxes of it.  I only eat 50g a day so it will take a while......
I did think about removing most of the raisins as they are the predominant dried fruit in it, that may help.
Thanks for your reply @Docb 
Tony.


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## Leadinglights (Aug 12, 2021)

Barfly said:


> The one I use is Jordan's Fruit and Nut Muesli in the purple box.  Hard to come by, my local Waitrose are the only (intermittent) stockists.  View attachment 18308
> 
> It does contain fruit, but has only 14g of sugar per 100g.  My diabetes nurse said it was ok, so when it was on special I bought 6 boxes of it.  I only eat 50g a day so it will take a while......
> I did think about removing most of the raisins as they are the predominant dried fruit in it, that may help.
> ...


There are a lot of dried fruits in there so likely to be the culprit and at 61.2g carb per 100g your 50g portion will amount to a whopping 30g carb plus the milk.
You may be better to have some full fat Greek yoghurt with just 20g of the muesli, which would probably be more filling anyway and add some extra seeds or nuts.
Anything with dried fruit in is going to be high carb. I have a low sugar granola (Lizi's ) which is 45g carb per 100g but still only have a scattering on my yoghurt and berries.


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## silentsquirrel (Aug 12, 2021)

30g + the carbs in the milk + a whole orange adds up to a lot of carbs, especially at breakfast when many of us cope less well with carbs.  Agree full fat yogurt plus a sprinkle of muesli is likely to be better, and maybe drop the orange or just have a couple of segments.


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## Barfly (Aug 12, 2021)

Leadinglights said:


> There are a lot of dried fruits in there so likely to be the culprit and at 61.2g carb per 100g your 50g portion will amount to a whopping 30g carb plus the milk.
> You may be better to have some full fat Greek yoghurt with just 20g of the muesli, which would probably be more filling anyway and add some extra seeds or nuts.
> Anything with dried fruit in is going to be high carb. I have a low sugar granola (Lizi's ) which is 45g carb per 100g but still only have a scattering on my yoghurt and berries.


OK so I take out the raisins.  Forget the yogurt thingy, I couldn't cope with that.   My cornflakes with lashings of cream and sugar are fading into a distant memory......


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## Leadinglights (Aug 12, 2021)

Barfly said:


> OK so I take out the raisins.  Forget the yogurt thingy, I couldn't cope with that.   My cornflakes with lashings of cream and sugar are fading into a distant memory......


It's not just the raisins but the other dried fruits as well, the dates, pineapple, papaya which are high carb. Being dried concentrates the sugar into less weight.


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## Barfly (Aug 12, 2021)

silentsquirrel said:


> 30g + the carbs in the milk + a whole orange adds up to a lot of carbs, especially at breakfast when many of us cope less well with carbs.  Agree full fat yogurt plus a sprinkle of muesli is likely to be better, and maybe drop the orange or just have a couple of segments.


As is said to @Leadinglights, yogurt is not going to happen...I know everyone means well, but that's a step too far, already dropped my toast and marmite which I thought was being soooo good.....  Orange is for daily vitamin c and my mental health, I actually enjoy the orange/tangerine/satsumas.
I only have proper milk, the blue top, I have given up the proper milk that only comes in litres bottles, you know the yellow stuff that's like we used to have as gold top back when they did deliveries.  Can't see the point of this green and red top crap with all the goodness and guts removed from it.


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## Barfly (Aug 12, 2021)

Leadinglights said:


> It's not just the raisins but the other dried fruits as well, the dates, pineapple, papaya which are high carb. Being dried concentrates the sugar into less weight.


There's actually not that much else other than raisins/sultanas, I'd be hard pressed to find any of the other dries fruits in the packets.


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## helli (Aug 12, 2021)

@Barfly there are some very knowledgeable and helpful people on this forum.
I think sometimes we forget to ask "how are you?"
Sure, dropping the raisins, replacing milk with yoghurt, cutting out the orange may help with your blood sugar levels but it is important to also look after your mental health. Managing diabetes is only part of looking after yourself.
Have you found you feel any different after the changes you have made? Do you have more energy for your Man Shed, NHS volunteering, granddaughter, ...? I feel exhausted just listing them.

Just remember to look after all of Barfly not just the diabetes.


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## grovesy (Aug 12, 2021)

Rather than drop the museli how about reducing the portion of the museli. I had a box of granola in the house and I found to tolerate I had to reduce by half the potion on packaging.I did it increments to find the right amount for me.


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## silentsquirrel (Aug 12, 2021)

Barfly said:


> As is said to @Leadinglights, yogurt is not going to happen...I know everyone means well, but that's a step too far, already dropped my toast and marmite which I thought was being soooo good.....  Orange is for daily vitamin c and my mental health, I actually enjoy the orange/tangerine/satsumas.
> I only have proper milk, the blue top, I have given up the proper milk that only comes in litres bottles, you know the yellow stuff that's like we used to have as gold top back when they did deliveries.  Can't see the point of this green and red top crap with all the goodness and guts removed from it.


Gold top milk would be great!  or add a drop of cream to the blue top.  Perhaps have the orange later in the day?  or spread it out throughout the day?


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## Leadinglights (Aug 12, 2021)

I suppose it all come down to whether you think the carbs are worth it for the enjoyment you get.
Some things are, some not so much so worth giving them a miss.


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## silentsquirrel (Aug 12, 2021)

Your yogurt is my avocado - it doesn't matter how often I am told how good they are for me,  I am not going to eat them!  When we need to restrict what we eat, it is important that we enjoy what we do eat.


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## Drummer (Aug 12, 2021)

Barfly said:


> The one I use is Jordan's Fruit and Nut Muesli in the purple box.  Hard to come by, my local Waitrose are the only (intermittent) stockists.  View attachment 18308
> 
> It does contain fruit, but has only 14g of sugar per 100g.  My diabetes nurse said it was ok, so when it was on special I bought 6 boxes of it.  I only eat 50g a day so it will take a while......
> I did think about removing most of the raisins as they are the predominant dried fruit in it, that may help.
> ...


Your nurse obviously doesn't understand the problem - it is 2/3rd carbohydrate, 61.2 percent by weight and a portion would be 27.5gm - that is equivalent to my dinner on the days when I have a dessert - and then you add an orange so it is probably way over one days carbs for me.


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## BlueArmy (Aug 12, 2021)

Barfly said:


> @Docb
> Thanks for the detailed response.  If they are only a few quid, then I'll buy a few and check them out.  Normally medical stuff is hundreds of £, but I suppose diabetes is so common they are cheap.
> 
> I spent 33 years in Aussie, repatriating in 2014 and I have noticed the strange reluctance here for the medics to give you any paperwork on your own health.  In Aussie they inundate you with paperwork and give you all your x-rays and doppler printouts, they don't want to keep anything-just hand it all to you to look after.
> ...


You don't need to demand it if you register for patient access (if the new technologies have reached sleepy dorset, although they are available here in neighbouring hampshire!), or the NHS app - you can access your medical records/test results. They don't give out xrays as they are now all digital. And forget building yourself a device - I guess its easy enough but they use test strips that react with a substance, probably a protein of some description to change resistance the electronics then measure, the electronics is the easy part, the chemistry in the test strips is where the smarts come in.

Or you could try and design a wearable, although they insert a thin metal sterile filament into your arm and then pair with a meter or your smartphone, so your now into devop's. to code that one up Cheaper to buy one, unless your really bored. Rumour has it that apple are working on a glucose monitor to go into the next iteration of apple watch, but I am not sure how, probably be some approximation from skin moisture, doubt it will be overly accurate. Let's see, they have lots of resource to throw at the problem so you never know.

In terms of how it landed on you - i'd say that is pretty poor to be honest. Disgraceful even. As others have said, your supposed to build up to a final dose for metformin and they are supposed to keep an eye on how you react, if it churns your guts you can ask for the slightly more expensive slow release version. There is also a bunch of other things they are supposed to do pretty quickly after diagnosis, like check you for neuropathy, retinopathy, kidney damage and the like. I'd hound them over that. Really, you should be made an appointment with, as discussed elsewhere today on these forums,  their loosely trained Diabetic nurse at the surgery.


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## grovesy (Aug 12, 2021)

Not all surgeries allow access to everything online. I have been registered for mine for a few years but don't have access to everything. I requested access to test results last month, had online reply they would look at it and could take 28 days, but not give yet.


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## BlueArmy (Aug 12, 2021)

grovesy said:


> Not all surgeries allow access to everything online. I have been registered for mine for a few years but don't have access to everything. I requested access to test results last month, had online reply they would look at it and could take 28 days, but not give yet.


Not sure the NHS app is via the surgeries. I think it's run by the NHS centrally. Just have to register with your NHS number if I remember correctly. Think everyone should have access to the app as at a minimum it holds your covid passport.


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## BlueArmy (Aug 12, 2021)

grovesy said:


> Not all surgeries allow access to everything online. I have been registered for mine for a few years but don't have access to everything. I requested access to test results last month, had online reply they would look at it and could take 28 days, but not give yet.


https://digital.nhs.uk/services/nhs-app - says on that website all GP surgeries are linked in to it.


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## grovesy (Aug 12, 2021)

BlueArmy said:


> Not sure the NHS app is via the surgeries. I think it's run by the NHS centrally. Just have to register with your NHS number if I remember correctly. Think everyone should have access to the app as at a minimum it holds your covid passport.





BlueArmy said:


> https://digital.nhs.uk/services/nhs-app - says on that website all GP surgeries are linked in to it.


I am not prepared to register with the NHS app and find I can no longer access my Systemonline that I use to order my prescriptions.


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## BlueArmy (Aug 12, 2021)

ok thats completely fair and your choice. But the point not all surgeries have it, to be clear, is not correct, just so others are not misled


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## Robin (Aug 12, 2021)

BlueArmy said:


> But the point not all surgeries have it, to be clear, is not correct, just so others are not misled


Not all surgeries enable access, even though they should. Even on the NHS app. See the discussion here.


			https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/you-wont-hear-anything.94848/page-3


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## BlueArmy (Aug 12, 2021)

I've just read that discussion and the contributor saying they couldn't access it, her husband is at the same surgery and he could. WIthout getting tied up in knots, I believe all doctors surgeries can do it, but some are less on the ball with administering it. Can't and don't being two different things. The platforms / technology is in place to do it, should they wish, I believe. If it wasn't - then the government could not provide a COVID passport to everyone who needs it.


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## BlueArmy (Aug 12, 2021)

OK, she is not referring to the GP records, I misread that.......however, they can do it, I think it's the rare rather than the many that can't seem to sort it out.


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## Barfly (Aug 12, 2021)

helli said:


> @Barfly there are some very knowledgeable and helpful people on this forum.
> I think sometimes we forget to ask "how are you?"
> Sure, dropping the raisins, replacing milk with yoghurt, cutting out the orange may help with your blood sugar levels but it is important to also look after your mental health. Managing diabetes is only part of looking after yourself.
> Have you found you feel any different after the changes you have made? Do you have more energy for your Man Shed, NHS volunteering, granddaughter, ...? I feel exhausted just listing them.
> ...


Yes forget in our busy lives, I haven't noticed any changes at all in my health to be honest since change of diet and more exercise routines kicked in.  I expected to feel better somehow-but no.   Maybe it's just me - peculiar am I?


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## Barfly (Aug 12, 2021)

silentsquirrel said:


> Gold top milk would be great!  or add a drop of cream to the blue top.  Perhaps have the orange later in the day?  or spread it out throughout the day?


Doh---dear oh dear don't get old.... no reason not to have it later in the day.....silly old duffer....


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## Barfly (Aug 13, 2021)

Hey everyone-I just want to say a big thanks to all on here for their help and for bothering.
Cheers Tony


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