# Running



## Bat5 (Jan 8, 2022)

Hi
I know the deal with exercise I was just wandering if anyone has experience of running and what BG they start on and how fast they burn out. I was a decent runner a few years back and can’t imagine being back at that level I was but I’d like to start going out for a few runs. Any one have experience or tips ?
Thanks


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## everydayupsanddowns (Jan 10, 2022)

I tended to find that I didn’t really need to start at any more than mid-range. Generally I found a combination of reduced bolus (eg if running after breakfast) a temporary basal reduction and occasional  fast carb top-ups worked pretty well for me. 

Imposted a blog or two about my shambolic efforts a few years back if they are of interest






						Every day ups and downs, a diabetes blog
					

Because no two days with type 1 diabetes are the same. Except when they are. The ups and downs of life with T1D.




					www.everydayupsanddowns.co.uk


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## helli (Jan 10, 2022)

I find it's another case of "it depends". 
I live in a pretty hilly area - if I am running up hill, I get knackered quicker and my levels rise whereas if I keep to the treadmill (boooooooorrrrring) my levels fall. 
So, really it is a case of starting mid range with a reduced basal on my pump, having hypo treatment in my pocket and keeping an eye on my levels.

You may find some useful tips in runsweet.co.uk - a site dedicated to sport and Type 1.


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## cameron (Jan 17, 2022)

Have you tried going for a run yet, @Bat5?


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## Bat5 (Jan 17, 2022)

Not yet, too much other exercise getting in the way. Maybe this weekend though


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## counsellorneil (Mar 10, 2022)

My experience running has been varied. I started C25K last July, completing the end of September (not 5k, but 30 minutes). In the beginning when I ran my glucose level would rise by a couple of points. Didn't seem to matter where the level was when starting. Found this frustrating, but I kept going. Towards the end of September, glucose levels started to rise less, closer to one point. Now 8 months since starting C25K, there is very little glucose rise each run. I read somewhere that when we start doing a new type of exercise, even aerobic, where we may expect a reduction in glucose, such as running, there may initially be a rise until our body gets used to the change. What added to my frustration and confusion, is that having access to an exercise bike, when used, always caused a drop in glucose level, whereas running would initially cause a rise. I'm glad glucose levels have, or at least seem to have, settled down. I wear a Libre 2 sensor and the only time I received a low alarm was when running for just over an hour when I managed a 10k run. Under an hour things don't drop for me. This is my experience and no doubt your exercise results will be different. 

I'll add something I was told recently at the diabetic clinic. Apparently, when we do aerobic exercise for an hour or more, we are likely to have two potential hypos. One during or following the aerobic exercise, the other later overnight. It was explained that our muscles when resting will reabsorb the glycogen they used during the exercise, causing overnight lows. Was advised to eat something extra before bed, if doing an hour or more aerobic exercise during the day. Your mileage may differ ‍♂️.


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## Bat5 (Mar 10, 2022)

The overnight lows, I’ve had this problem after heavy workouts and figured this was the problem and started eating a little more on the nights. I’ve also found that after more intense workouts I’m having to eat a large amount more to raise levels than on nights when I’m not exercising.
Thanks for the advice.


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## helli (Mar 10, 2022)

Bat5 said:


> The overnight lows, I’ve had this problem after heavy workouts and figured this was the problem and started eating a little more on the nights. I’ve also found that after more intense workouts I’m having to eat a large amount more to raise levels than on nights when I’m not exercising.
> Thanks for the advice.


Have you tried reducing your basal for 24 or 48 hours?
Obviously, it depends upon your basal but this approach worked for me when I used Lantus byut, I assume, it wouldn’t work well for Tresiba.
i reduced my basal by 15 to 20% after exercise.


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## rebrascora (Mar 10, 2022)

Like @helli I reduce my evening Levemir dose after exercise to stop the night time drops which can be quite significant for me and definitely not something that I can eat more to compensate for. I love my Levemir for it's flexibility in enabling this real time basal adjustment and my doses (particularly the evening one change on an almost daily basis depending upon what I have been doing, both general activity (physical work) or more sedentary and after exercise.


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## Chris Hobson (Mar 12, 2022)

"I was a decent runner a few years back and can’t imagine being back at that level I was..."

You might surprise yourself. Although I was quite fit in the distant past, I had never done any running until I was diagnosed in 2013 at the age of 54. I've done 10k runs in around 50 minutes, half marathons in under 2 hours and marathons in around 4 hours 20. Just after my sixtieth birthday I did the parkrun inside 21 minutes and finished in the top 30 out of more than 500 runners. I'm hardly going to set the world on fire but, as an old git who had never really run before, I am amazed at what I did manage to achieve. Now that my knees are starting to get past their best I'm concentrating on swimming, I recently swam 200 lengths in under two hours.


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## Rob Oldfield (Mar 13, 2022)

I found watching a series of youtube vids (first one at 



) gave me good framework to work from for C25K.  Did first sub 30 minute today!


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## beebop (Mar 14, 2022)

I'm a Type 2 using diet and exercise to control things.  I'm also a qualified EA running coach and specialise in coaching new runners on our clubs version of the couch to 5K programme. We've taught several hundred new and returning runners this way and my experience suggests that older runners coming back into running should do the following;


Use the NHS couch to 5K course, but ignore their focus on running for 30 mins as most people won't get to 5K in that time.  Instead, after week 9 just concentrate on doing the 5k distance in your own time - whatever that may be.
Make sure you only run on alternate days. The recovery times between runs is vital. Do something like Yoga or Pilates or easy gym work to build strength on your non-running days.
Your key objective is not to get injured!  So many new runners push too hard, too fast.  Listen to your body and take your time.  Walk up the hills to begin with and take regular walk breaks if you need them.
Once you've run/walked a 5k for the first couple of times, build up your confidence by going to Parkrun's. You will almost certainly not be last home and each week try to run a bit more and walk less.
Once you can actually run a 5k without walking, just stay at that distance for at least 2-3 months. Try and focus on running more efficiently and finishing each 5K a little less tired than before. This will build up a strong base for the future.
From general experience as a type 2, you should see quite a fall in your levels before and after running, so find a run-day breakfast routine that works for you. Mine is overnight oats,in Greek yoghurt with a few frozen berries.
If running for more than 90 mins or so, you may need fuel during the run.  I have gone hypo after a non-fuelled 10mile run in the summer, so I now take about 5ml honey every 4-5 miles, but work out what suits you personally.
Enjoy your running!


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## helli (Mar 14, 2022)

beebop said:


> If running for more than 90 mins or so, you may need fuel during the run. I have gone hypo after a non-fuelled 10mile run in the summer, so I now take about 5ml honey every 4-5 miles, but work out what suits you personally.


I find adding a little bit of juice to my water bottle allows me to maintain my blood sugar levels all the time rather than allowing them to fall and then topping them up. Takes a bit of trial and error to get the water/juice proportions right.


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## Rob Oldfield (Mar 14, 2022)

beebop said:


> Once you can actually run a 5k without walking, just stay at that distance for at least 2-3 months. Try and focus on running more efficiently and finishing each 5K a little less tired than before. This will build up a strong base for the future.



Thanks for your input (and welcome to the forum!) on this and some interesting points you make.  Would you say that, after running a 5K, it would also be sensible to still throw in some shorter runs?


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## Rob Oldfield (Mar 14, 2022)

So far my longest run has taken just 30 minutes and I've not actually seen any dip in sugar level at all.  In fact it has, sometimes, caused a bit of a spike.  Ain't it lovely how diabetes is just so predictable!


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## beebop (Mar 14, 2022)

Rob Oldfield said:


> Thanks for your input (and welcome to the forum!) on this and some interesting points you make.  Would you say that, after running a 5K, it would also be sensible to still throw in some shorter runs?


Yes, absolutely!  I train with my club 1-2 times a week, and it's usually a variation of short, fast runs/sprints with recovery intervals of various lengths. These help build up strength and helps you work on your technique to make you a more efficient runner. That then pays dividends on the longer runs as you become less tired over distance.


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## beebop (Mar 14, 2022)

Rob Oldfield said:


> Thanks for your input (and welcome to the forum!) on this and some interesting points you make.  Would you say that, after running a 5K, it would also be sensible to still throw in some shorter runs?


The reason I suggest staying with a 5k distance is that from experience, many new runners, having conquered a 5k immediately try and do 10K's which is a world apart and usually ends in an injury of some kind!


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## ColinUK (Mar 15, 2022)

beebop said:


> The reason I suggest staying with a 5k distance is that from experience, many new runners, having conquered a 5k immediately try and do 10K's which is a world apart and usually ends in an injury of some kind!


Starting with 5km park runs in December I’m doing a half marathon in a couple of weeks!


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## iharding (Apr 8, 2022)

counsellorneil said:


> I'll add something I was told recently at the diabetic clinic. Apparently, when we do aerobic exercise for an hour or more, we are likely to have two potential hypos. One during or following the aerobic exercise, the other later overnight. It was explained that our muscles when resting will reabsorb the glycogen they used during the exercise, causing overnight lows. Was advised to eat something extra before bed, if doing an hour or more aerobic exercise during the day.


It's interesting to know what's behind this. Definitely something I'm used to, and counter with a small snack before bed. A lot of my running is long distance and slow, keeping heart rate low. Unless I really push the distance it doesn't have a lot of effect in dropping me low either during or after. Shorter faster runs which get me out of breath and leave the muscles feeling tired are the ones which lead to later hypos if not countered.


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## helli (Apr 8, 2022)

Unless you take an ultra long acting basal like Tresiba, why not reduce the basal instead of eating extra?
I was advised to reduce basal by 20% following exercise. 
When I did a 10 mountain hike, I found this was cumulative to a certain extent: after 7 days of hiking my basal was half its usual and I didn't need to reduce it any further.


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## iharding (Apr 8, 2022)

helli said:


> Unless you take an ultra long acting basal like Tresiba, why not reduce the basal instead of eating extra?
> I was advised to reduce basal by 20% following exercise.
> When I did a 10 mountain hike, I found this was cumulative to a certain extent: after 7 days of hiking my basal was half its usual and I didn't need to reduce it any further.


This is why I should have joined the forum years ago! All guidance I've had in the past is find a basal dose that works and stick with it unless very ill. I make bolus adjustments following intensive exercise, but never varied basal. I'm on Lantus, recently gone from once before bed to split twice daily as it was losing activity in the evenings. Should make it more flexible to try some changes.


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## rebrascora (Apr 8, 2022)

iharding said:


> This is why I should have joined the forum years ago! All guidance I've had in the past is find a basal dose that works and stick with it unless very ill. I make bolus adjustments following intensive exercise, but never varied basal. I'm on Lantus, recently gone from once before bed to split twice daily as it was losing activity in the evenings. Should make it more flexible to try some changes.


My basal doses need changing on an almost daily basis sometimes and other times I can go weeks or months with the same doses depending if I am in a regular routine or not. I don't think Lantus is as flexible as Levemir even as a split dose as I think it has a longer effect in the system, so the advice is to not make more than one change in 3 days whereas I can make changes with my Levemir each day/night and get a real time response. I LOVE my Levemir for it's flexibility. I think if you have quite a regular lifestyle then longer acting basal insulins like Tresiba are OK but I don't and my daytime and nighttime needs are so dramatically different (currently 24u in the morning and just 4 at night) that I would be hypo every night with something like Tresiba. 
If I have been very active for several days in a row, I need to keep reducing my evening basal until I hit 0 and then start reducing my morning dose but generally my levels will be reasonably steady through the day with the odd little carb top up and maybe a bolus free low carb meal but about 3am they will drop significantly as my muscles suck the glucose out of my blood to replace their stores..... unless I reduce that evening Levemir dose. 
Libre is wonderful for showing you what is happening.


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