# All 400,000 gowns flown from Turkey for NHS fail UK standards



## Northerner (May 7, 2020)

Last month, amid dire warnings of shortages of personal protective equipment for health workers, ministers publicised the imminent arrival from Turkey of a fleet of RAF cargo planes bringing in a “very significant” shipment of PPE for the NHS.

More than a fortnight later, it has emerged that every one of the 400,000 protective gowns that eventually arrived has been impounded after being found not to conform to UK standards.

The Department for Health and Social Care confirmed on Wednesday evening that the items were being held in a facility near Heathrow airport. It is understood that they are due to be sent back and that the DHSC intends to seek a refund, as it has done in similar situations in the past.









						Coronavirus PPE: all 400,000 gowns flown from Turkey for NHS fail UK standards
					

Health department understood to be returning shipment of PPE and seeking refund




					www.theguardian.com
				




I wonder in what way they don't comply, and if they would pass the standards of other countries? This must also mean that, despite the government giving the impression that these were to directly deal with an emergency situation i.e. happening right that day they arrived, how come they have been sitting in a Heathrow warehouse for almost 3 weeks?


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## SB2015 (May 7, 2020)

Oh for some honesty!!!


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## everydayupsanddowns (May 7, 2020)

Just heard that on the news.


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## Robin (May 7, 2020)

Northerner said:


> This must also mean that, despite the government giving the impression that these were to directly deal with an emergency situation i.e. happening right that day they arrived, how come they have been sitting in a Heathrow warehouse for almost 3 weeks


According to the newspaper that broke the story, they were tested soon after arrival and found wanting, and have been languishing in a warehouse ever since while they try and get a refund. They were flown into Brize Norton (we get all the planes over our house) so it wasn’t a case of them arriving at Heathrow and being bundled into a warehouse and forgotten about.


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## mikeyB (May 7, 2020)

It’s not the UK standards, it’s EU standards. Don’t worry, when we leave the EU we can ignore all that EU red tape.

It’s just another example of the English government asking the wrong people. Then they can blame the perfidious Turks. There are several manufacturers in England who could increase their manufacturing of PPE, but they just haven’t been asked. Even after they told the government they could do it.

The “government” then say there is a worldwide shortage. There isn’t much evidence for that, but even so, there needn’t be a shortage in England.

Why do I keep calling it the English government? Because in Scotland this PPE shortage business is not a topic that’s got any traction, it’s entirely a smoke and mirrors construct by the English government.


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## Docb (May 7, 2020)

Come on mikeyB, it allowed the fantastic RAF to get in on the act.  It's all been our fantastic army up to now and you simply can't let them get all the limelight.  The Brylcreem boys have got to be allowed to do their bit and get some traction.  The fantastic navy will be really peeved so expect a couple of gunboats to be sent to the eastern med - with appropriate publicity - to let those Turkish wallahs know we take a dim view of them sending us rubbish.

 Fact that it was a complete, total and expensive, waste of time is irrelevant.


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## Drummer (May 7, 2020)

I saw the guy who has been making the material for gowns and sending it off to America because our government ignored his offer to up production to 24/7. His messages were ignored and ignored again, so the machinery has been running its normal daily routine, being switched off and he goes home shaking his head and wondering why his product isn't thought good enough. 
And meanwhile - in hospitals and care homes the infection finds no barriers.


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## Northerner (May 8, 2020)

Drummer said:


> I saw the guy who has been making the material for gowns and sending it off to America because our government ignored his offer to up production to 24/7. His messages were ignored and ignored again, so the machinery has been running its normal daily routine, being switched off and he goes home shaking his head and wondering why his product isn't thought good enough.
> And meanwhile - in hospitals and care homes the infection finds no barriers.


Yes, I saw that  Why???  Also, there was a good report on Newsnight last night about how the pandemic stockpile has been neglected since (significant date) 2009, with 45% of stock allowed to pass its safe use expiry date, contrary to the plan that stock should be used and restored on a rolling basis i.e. as stock approached its expiry date it should be put out for use and replaced with new. The government have given an excuse that the stockpile was for a flu pandemic, and this is not flu, but that still doesn't explain or excuse why the stockpile has been neglected over the past decade


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## Docb (May 8, 2020)

Northerner said:


> Yes, I saw that  Why???  Also, there was a good report on Newsnight last night about how the pandemic stockpile has been neglected since (significant date) 2009, with 45% of stock allowed to pass its safe use expiry date, contrary to the plan that stock should be used and restored on a rolling basis i.e. as stock approached its expiry date it should be put out for use and replaced with new. The government have given an excuse that the stockpile was for a flu pandemic, and this is not flu, but that still doesn't explain or excuse why the stockpile has been neglected over the past decade



It's easy to get the capital money - which would have been needed to employ consultants, and occupy civil servants - when the idea of creating a strategic stockpile was first thought of by probably one or two enthusiastic people.  Once it was set up then it would need revenue spend to keep it going  and it is revenue spending which was cut to the bare bones by the Cameron and May governments.  If the need to keep the stockpile maintained was not enshrined in a specific law, it would not be done.


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## Northerner (May 8, 2020)

Docb said:


> It's easy to get the capital money - which would have been needed to employ consultants, and occupy civil servants - when the idea of creating a strategic stockpile was first thought of by probably one or two enthusiastic people.  Once it was set up then it would need revenue spend to keep it going  and it is revenue spending which was cut to the bare bones by the Cameron and May governments.  If the need to keep the stockpile maintained was not enshrined in a specific law, it would not be done.


I'm sure that's true


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## trophywench (May 8, 2020)

Yeah - bloody sure.


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## Drummer (May 8, 2020)

Well at least we can't be accused of being a nation of shopkeepers any more - the concept of stock rotation seems to have gone completely overboard. 
All it required - surely - was the stockpile to become part of the distribution network, with deliveries at one end and orders going out at the other and the picking point rotating around the aisles week by week.
Probably the idea is too simple for the clever people who have got themselves in charge.


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## rebrascora (May 8, 2020)

My immediate thought when I heard about us getting them from Turkey was that there must be something wrong with them otherwise Turkey would be keeping them for their own use. There is a world wide shortage, so it has to be suspicious when a whole shipment is suddenly available like that in my opinion.... same with so much of the stuff we have purchased in panic from China like test kits which aren't reliable and ventilators which are faulty. There is too much opportunity for profiteering when everyone is clamouring for the same things worldwide and it would have been far better to invest in British companies to make this stuff from scratch here where quality control can be supervised than try to snap stuff up off the international market unseen.


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## Drummer (May 8, 2020)

I believe the Turkish government took pity on the people waiting on the tarmac for a shipment our government had sent them to collect, and which never materialised, and so organised the shipment themselves. The Turkish government belives that all the required standards and documentation were met - according to their spokesperson - but the team meeting the plane here obviously think not. 
I feel that there has been a great lack of joined up thinking in this process - the way that the supplies usually being provided to care homes were summarily taken for the NHS hospitals, for instance - how did they think that was going to pan out?


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## Northerner (May 8, 2020)

Drummer said:


> I feel that there has been a great lack of joined up thinking in this process - the way that the supplies usually being provided to care homes were summarily taken for the NHS hospitals, for instance - how did they think that was going to pan out?


It's the situation with care homes that I find completely incomprehensible  Here we have hundreds of buildings filled with precisely the people that the government said needed shielding, yet it's only 12 weeks into this that they are starting to get any real attention, as though it's some sort of huge surprise   That, for me, is unforgivable negligence and shameful


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## rebrascora (May 8, 2020)

The problem is that there just isn't enough PPE to go round and whilst the NHS is government funded, many of the care homes are private and therefore the funding for PPE for them is less clear cut as regards who should be providing and funding it. I am not saying that is a good situation but you can see how the government's most direct responsibility is to the NHS. 
I think the whole privatisation of social care needs to be rethought and not just for the elderly. It may all need to be taken back into the public domain as I imagine many care homes will go bankrupt as a result of this, but where the money will come from to fund it all is alarmingly worrying.


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## Northerner (May 8, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> I think the whole privatisation of social care needs to be rethought and not just for the elderly. It may all need to be taken back into the public domain as I imagine many care homes will go bankrupt as a result of this, but where the money will come from to fund it all is alarmingly worrying.


Everyone seems to have forgotten that a) Theresa May promised a Green Paper on how to fund Social Care three years ago - it never appeared, and b) Boris Johnson promised us that he had a Social Care plan fully formed and ready to go - shall we say, in the words of Churchill relevant to today, he employed a terminological inexactitude  Social Care has become so fragmented because councils had their budgets cut by 40% and could no longer provide the state support they had in former years  

Whatever the status of Care Homes, it should have been obvious from the start that the government would need to step in and provide the funds and support necessary - they have for other organisations and individuals - so it remains inexplicable to me that they were not prioritised  My Mum was in a care home for the last few years of her life, so I have some inkling about how terrible all those families, and the staff, must be feeling


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## mikeyB (May 9, 2020)

For information, take a look at how Scotland organises social care. It’s free for anyone who needs it, regardless of income. It’s part of the legislation that got me £10,000 Disabilty adapted bathroom for £2000, and a £4000 stairlift for £800 when I lived on Mull.





__





						Social care support - Social care - gov.scot
					

How the Scottish Government are supporting people through social care.




					www.gov.scot


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## Amity Island (May 9, 2020)

Lucylemonpip said:


> The Government’s handling of the Coronavirus, regarding the lack of PPE, the testing shortages and the care home issues and pretty much everything else, is an absolute shambles, with incompetence beyond belief. I am deeply ashamed and embarrassed to be British.


…and they've been planning for it for the last 9 years.









						UK one of best prepared for pandemic
					

The UK Influenza Pandemic Preparedness Strategy 2011, which aims to ensure that the UK continues to be one of the best-prepared countries in…




					www.gov.uk


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## mikeyB (May 9, 2020)

Lucylemonpip said:


> The Government’s handling of the Coronavirus, regarding the lack of PPE, the testing shortages and the care home issues and pretty much everything else, is an absolute shambles, with incompetence beyond belief. I am deeply ashamed and embarrassed to be British.


Could you change your use of the word “British” to “English”? The folk in Scotland think their government is trustworthy and competent, or at least a majority do. The same poll showed less than half of the population of England think the same. Quite rightly - I do agree with your sentiment.


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## Lucylemonpip (May 9, 2020)

I’ve deleted my post. Hope that helps.


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