# Hi all!



## Snowdog63 (Apr 13, 2016)

Hi, my name's Del. I'm 52 & I got diagnosed Type 2 last week.

I didn't really ask the doctor any questions (apart from "I don't feel that worried about it? Should I be more worried?") & I didn't come away from the doctor's with any of the figures or measurements that others here seem to be quoting, so I don't really know any specifics about my situation apart from the fact that I have to eat (very) well & exercise more, which I'm doing.

God I miss chocolate!! 

The DUK website is a goldmine & I'm gradually getting up to speed with everything I need to know about my dietary changes.

I don't (yet) have any of the main symptoms that seem to be associated with diabetes but I've made a second appointment to see the doctor with all the questions I've collected since last week.


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## laurel (Apr 13, 2016)

Hello!  I've just joined too


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## SB2015 (Apr 13, 2016)

Welcome and you have come to the right place.  There are loads of people on here who are able to give lots of help and advice, or just listen to the occasional rant (most of us need one every now and then)



Snowdog63 said:


> God I miss chocolate!!



As a treat I have one plain chocolate Brazil.  Eating it after my meal reduces its impact on a post meal spike.


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## Alan.tnh (Apr 13, 2016)

Hi and welcome, one piece of advice for your next meeting is take a friend/ partner/ anyone you trust, to be a scribe and take notes so easy to forget what you've just been told, if not take a notepad for yourself.  Good luck let us know how you get on. Al


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## Northerner (Apr 13, 2016)

Snowdog63 said:


> Hi, my name's Del. I'm 52 & I got diagnosed Type 2 last week.
> 
> I didn't really ask the doctor any questions (apart from "I don't feel that worried about it? Should I be more worried?") & I didn't come away from the doctor's with any of the figures or measurements that others here seem to be quoting, so I don't really know any specifics about my situation apart from the fact that I have to eat (very) well & exercise more, which I'm doing.
> 
> ...


Hi Del, welcome to the forum  How did your diagnosis come about? I'd suggest reading Jennifer's Advice and Maggie Davey's letter - they should help you understand things better. I'd also recommend getting a copy of Type 2 Diabetes: The First Year by Gretchen Becker, which is really positive and helpful 

Please let us know if you have any questions, there are lots of knowledgeable and friendly folk here who will be more than happy to help!


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## grovesy (Apr 13, 2016)

Welcome.


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## Lynn Davies (Apr 13, 2016)

Hi and welcome to the forum


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## Snowdog63 (Apr 13, 2016)

Thanks everyone!



Northerner said:


> How did your diagnosis come about?



Well, without wanting to put too fine a point on it, I was beginning to have a bit of a problem "downstairs" so I went to the doctor's & he sent me off for a blood test which came back showing that I was diabetic.

Personally I'm convinced it has something to do with having had my gall bladder out a couple of years ago as I don't seem to have any of the usual symptoms, thirst, tiredness etc, I'm not overweight & I'm pretty active, physically. I've never even had a hangover, despite drinking regularly!

Anyway, I may be completely wrong about that & my body's ability to produce insulin may have just randomly broken.

Jennifer's page mentions measuring blood sugar levels but I currently have no means to do that. Is that something I can get from my doctor?


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## Northerner (Apr 13, 2016)

Snowdog63 said:


> Jennifer's page mentions measuring blood sugar levels but I currently have no means to do that. Is that something I can get from my doctor?


Some (most?) GPs are reluctant to prescribe the test strips for meters, which can be expensive and they therefore think they are saving money. But in reality, this is a short-sighted view, since helping you to understand andmanage your diabetes from the start will save considerably more down the line by keeping you healthy! It's worth asking though. Have a read of Test,Review, Adjust by Alan S to understand how a testing regime can help you to learn your tolerance for things and adjust your diet accordingly to improve your control. If you can't get a meter and strips from your surgery, it's worth funding them yourself for a while so you can present them with evidence of how you are using it - sometimes they will then prescribe for you. The cheapest option we have come across is the SD Codefree Meter which has test strips at around £8 for 50 (many others may charge £25-£30 for 50 strips).


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## Mark Parrott (Apr 13, 2016)

Hi Del & welcome to the forum.


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## Ralph-YK (Apr 13, 2016)

Welcome from a fellow 52 year old T2, who's 16 months in.  I wasn't told anything either.


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## KookyCat (Apr 13, 2016)

Welcome Del, hope you find it useful, and don't worry, you'll be down with the lingo in no time


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## stephknits (Apr 13, 2016)

Welcome to the forum, Del, glad you found us . Let us know how your next appointment goes.  I recommend asking for all your results and writing them down, even if they don't much make sense.  That way, when you get your head round them, you will know where you started from.


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## Snowdog63 (Apr 14, 2016)

Thanks everyone. What a helpful & friendly forum! There seems to be a lot of conflicting info on the DUK website, but I'm going to assume that's because I don't really understand it yet! I'll be sure to get all the details from my doctor on the 20th & add them to my sig.


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## Snowdog63 (Apr 14, 2016)

I suppose the biggest "unknown" for me is the actual levels & impact of everything involved. I've been reading about 4s & 5s & spikes up to 8 point something & I have no idea about the amount of food that will cause these levels/spikes & also about exactly how debilitating these events will be over time. Is it really bad to spike up to 8 or is that just normal?

I just had 3 "soft apricots" (dried, I guess you could say, but still squidgy), 3 walnut halves & 5 whole blanched almonds as a sort of elevenses snack but I have no way of knowing if that was way too much or okay. If I were to eat a mars bar, what would happen & how much time would it take to get back to normal?

Are these normal questions or will it all just make sense after a while of being on here?


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## Northerner (Apr 14, 2016)

The problem with diabetes is that there can be quite a wide spectrum of experience, so really there is no 'one-size-fits-all' and generalised information may not be applicable in a particular individual's case - hence the often conflicting information. I think what you need is to be aware of what guidance is available, then find out what works for you


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## Lynn Davies (Apr 14, 2016)

Hi and welcome Snowdog.

I to got very little information from my DSN - go away and lose weight!  Eat plenty of carbs with each meal!  Not a hope of a test meter - well I might have done if I had held a shotgun to her head and threatened her first born! 

I got the SD Codefree and test strips from Amazon.

Had my 3 month review last month - was asked if I was testing and was told 'you mustn't test!'  No reasons why other than risk of infection blah blah blah!  So type 1's are not at risk??   So what do I say now when asked if I test?  I sweetly say 'No - never'.  Same when they ask me if I am eating carbs - 'of course I am'.  That part is true'ish - just not the high carb rubbish they tell me I need to survive!

Stick around here and you will be ok.


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## Mark Parrott (Apr 14, 2016)

I've never risked dried apricots. Generally, dried fruit is basically nearly all sugar & they are likely to send your blood sugars up. Nuts are good though.


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## Lynn Davies (Apr 14, 2016)

Snowdog63 said:


> 3 walnut halves & 5 whole blanched almonds



Blimey!  You are living the high life!!!

Personally the Apricots would be a problem to me - as they are dried the sugar content is concentrated!  Proper little sugar bombs they is .

10 whole almonds = 1 carb so you could have had best part of a packet if you didn't have the Apricot. One dried apricot half is 2.2 carbs - so 3 is 6.6 for very little.  The almonds for me are the nut that keeps on giving!  Have just one and you will still be finding bits to chew on 2 hours later!! 

Pick your carbs carefully and you can have a very substantial snack


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## Snowdog63 (Apr 14, 2016)

Lynn Davies said:


> 1 carb



When you say 1 carb... What does that mean? How many am I allowed each day?? I thought carbs were more measured as "a couple of tablespoons of rice" etc. **confused**


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## Northerner (Apr 14, 2016)

Snowdog63 said:


> When you say 1 carb... What does that mean? How many am I allowed each day?? I thought carbs were more measured as "a couple of tablespoons of rice" etc. **confused**


I suspect she means 1 gram of carbohydrate (per 100g), so very low in carbs. It's important to become familiar with the amount of carbs per 100g for any food you choose, as this is the important factor when determining whether they will raise your blood sugar levels a lot or hardly at all. A good exercise to conduct is to write a food diary and record how many grams of carbs are in everything you eat and drink. It's a bit tedious, but it does give you a true picture of your daily carb consumption and will then allow you to identify areas where you might reduce the carb amount e.g. less potato, more green veg.


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## Mark Parrott (Apr 14, 2016)

That will be 1g of carbs. How many you need or can take varies from person to person. Carbs turn to sugar inside your body which in turn, increases blood sugar. Quite a few people on here (including me) follow the LCHF (low carb high fat) diet. Anything under 100g of carbs a day is considered low. I try to stick below 80g as that seems to suit me well.  Oh, & don't worry about the high fat bit. When your body runs out of carbs to burn, it starts burning fat, so you can lose weight despite filling up on butter, cheese, eggs & fatty meat. It goes against everything we are told by the experts.


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## Lynn Davies (Apr 14, 2016)

Carbs are the little beggers that get together and make glucose.   Most things have some carbs in them - some lower then others and therefore more 'friendly' to diabetics.

I eat low carb/high fat so I am conscious of the  type of carbs I eat.  Mostly meat/fresh veggies/salad.  Boring when you see it written down but there are lots of ways to keep the interest up.  Lidl do a high protein bread roll that is 11 carbs per roll - great when you compare it to regular sliced bread which is 11 per slice (give or take depending on variety and thickness) and much more substantial.  Half a roll toasted with some cheese on top and a nice side salad is a lovely lunch time meal.

The amount of carbs depends on each individual.  Some things spike some and others get away with lots more then I can.

My view was to cut carbs as much as possible in the first instance to get my HBa1c down quickly and now I have the BG under control I can experiment a bit to see how things are going.  Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't - who knows?

There is a book you can get called Carbs and Cals which will help you to sort out what is what.


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## Lynn Davies (Apr 14, 2016)

Lynn Davies said:


> Carbs are the little beggers that get together and make glucose.



Oh you two are far more eloquent than wot I is *sigh*

Thought my description was quite good - goes along with the one that says Calories are the little beggers that get together in your wardrobe and sew your clothes smaller overnight


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## Snowdog63 (Apr 14, 2016)

Thanks for the replies!

I get that carbs turn into glucose but the "1 carb" confused me.

So, although I've been putting it off, a food diary it is, then!


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## Annette (Apr 14, 2016)

Have just recently discovered that dried apricots do not work the same for me as other dried fruits (which are usually pretty quick acting). I have 15g dried fruit before I go into the gym. However, whereas things like dates and raisins will raise my bg fairly quickly (20-30 mins or so), to match the call on my energy needs in the gym, apricots take more like 2 hours to work...Hence a few mid gym hypos followed by major spikes when the apricots finally got in! So, dont write anything off until you've tried it - you might just be lucky (or unlucky!) with your favourite snack!


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## Mark Parrott (Apr 14, 2016)

Let me tell you my average days food.  Breakfast is usually full fat natural Greek yoghurt with berries (these are the kindest fruit for me & frozen are best as they mix in nicely), weekends I like a fry up (but no fried bread, beans or hash browns).  When I get bored of yoghurt, I have a slice of Burgen toast & butter (Burgen is lower carb than most breads).  For lunch I sometimes have a Lidl High Protein roll with either ham, cheese or tuna, other times I skip the roll & have a salad instead.  For dinner, I tend to check out the recipes on several low carb websites (Diet Doctor is my current favourite).  It's amazing what variety of meals you can knock up without the need for potatoes, rice or pasta.  I even have low carb puddings.  There is a great lime cheesecake recipe on the Ditch The Carbs website.  If i'm hungry between meals, I snack on nuts or cheese.


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## Snowdog63 (Apr 14, 2016)

Thanks, I was going to ask but felt like I'd be a complete pain!

I'm curious about the high fat low carb thing because I read an article (The Sugar Conspiracy, which I've posted in the general board, as you may have seen) which explains all about the history of the fat/sugar debate (in the context of nutritional advice & the scientists involved).

I'm trying to soak up as much info as possible but there's so much!! 

You say you avoid beans but I was quite pleased to see beans being advocated on the DUK website as I really like them. 

*Meat, fish, eggs, pulses, beans and nuts*
Beans, pulses, soya and tofu are also good sources of protein
Aim to have some food from this group every day,
• using beans and pulses in a casserole to replace some – or all – of the meat

etc.

Is this bad advice, am I reading it wrong or do beans just not work for you?


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## Annette (Apr 14, 2016)

Its not bad advice, with a caveat: Baked beans (such as you get in a fried breakfast, and that Mark avoids) tend to have a lot of sugar in the sauce. AND for some people, the beans do affect their blood sugars, so best avoided if you are one of those people.
BUT if beans dont affect your bg too badly, then they are a good filling source of protein.
Its another case of test, taste, and retest!


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## Snowdog63 (Apr 14, 2016)

Thanks again. This place is great!

So, my company decides to hold a charity bake-off a week & a half after I get Type 2'd! Typical! 

(I know, I know, I was diabetic before I found out. Probably did me a favour!  )


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## Carolg (Apr 14, 2016)

Hi del and welcome


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## Mark Parrott (Apr 14, 2016)

Do a diabetic cake. I make one. It is posted in the recipes section. I have altered it a bit since posting it. I now use half rye flour & half almond flour. Barely affects my BG.

Oh, and i was referring to baked beans. I have other types of beans & I'm fine with them.


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## Superheavy (Apr 14, 2016)

Snowdog63 said:


> Thanks again. This place is great!
> 
> So, my company decides to hold a charity bake-off a week & a half after I get Type 2'd! Typical!
> 
> (I know, I know, I was diabetic before I found out. Probably did me a favour!  )



Welcome on board mate, hope you're picking up a few things - there is so much information on here and I've found it so useful. It is a complete blur in the first few days, and much of the information washes over, and some of it should stick. I originally thought that it was the sugar content I should be looking at, but in reality the carbs are probably most important, as something that is low sugar but higher in carbs can still spike your blood glucose (BG) level once it gets inside the body. I was lucky, a tester and a prescription for 100 strips was stuffed into my hands before I left my appt with my diabetes nurse, it really is the best way to get a grip on where you are with your BG levels.

I was diagnosed at 4pm on the Thursday before the Easter holiday, and I already had two bags of chocolate eggs and a box of chocolate truffles from my manager at work in the car. I feel your pain!


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## Snowdog63 (Apr 15, 2016)

Superheavy said:


> I was diagnosed at 4pm on the Thursday before the Easter holiday, and I already had two bags of chocolate eggs and a box of chocolate truffles from my manager at work in the car. I feel your pain!



I genuinely laughed out loud at this. Company raised 364 quid without me so I think I was best off out of it!



Mark Parrott said:


> Do a diabetic cake. I make one. It is posted in the recipes section..



Cake sounds like a fantastic idea!


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## Snowdog63 (Apr 18, 2016)

So, this may be the wrong place for this (& if it is, please feel free to advise) but I have a couple of questions:

Firstly, this, from the section about eating out, confused me:

"If it'’s a barbecue there may not be enough starchy food, so head for the bread"

I appreciate that everyone's different & we have to measure & learn what works for each of us but I certainly thought starchy foods were to be strictly limited, whereas grilled meat (fat content notwithstanding) was in "knock yourself out" territory!!

Secondly, when you have "carbohydrate 'of which: sugars'" values written on a pack, do I take the larger carb value across onto my food diary or the sugars value, when calculating my daily amounts?


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## Annette (Apr 18, 2016)

Snowdog63 said:


> "If it'’s a barbecue there may not be enough starchy food, so head for the bread"


...but only if you need starchy food (as some T1s might). Like you said, its a case of each to what suits them, some T1s find they need starchy food, most dont, some T2s on certain medication are easier with a bit of starchy, most arent. 


Snowdog63 said:


> "carbohydrate 'of which: sugars'


Total carb value - all carbs become sugars once theyre inside you, after all! The 'of which sugars' value is, tbh, a bit of a red herring, I think designed to make foods look 'healthier' than they are.


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## Snowdog63 (Apr 18, 2016)

Thanks!

I did think that would be the case regarding the sugars, but worth a check.


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## Northerner (Apr 18, 2016)

Snowdog63 said:


> Firstly, this, from the section about eating out, confused me:
> 
> "If it'’s a barbecue there may not be enough starchy food, so head for the bread"
> 
> I appreciate that everyone's different & we have to measure & learn what works for each of us but I certainly thought starchy foods were to be strictly limited, whereas grilled meat (fat content notwithstanding) was in "knock yourself out" territory!!


Good grief!  Is there a date on this information? Sounds like the 1970s at the latest! You only need to 'head for the bread' if a) you'd like some bread, and b) you know how much and how well your body is likely to respond to it - there's no actual need for it unless you are on certain types of medication or your blood sugar levels are dropping low.

Sugar, as you surmised, is just another carbohydrate (like lactose, fructose, dextrose, glucose etc. ) It's a constant irritant for many people with diabetes that excessive emphasis is placed on sugar, when there are in fact other forms of carbs that can be worse - white bread, for example, will hit your levels faster than table sugar as it takes one fewer chemical process to convert the starch to glucose 

It's a bit of a minefield at first, but you'll soon get the hang of it - you're doing the right thing getting to know things and asking questions now, it'll become second nature before too long


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## Snowdog63 (Apr 18, 2016)

It may be info from the seventies but it's currently on the DUK web site:

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/Guide-to-diabetes/Teens/Me-and-my-diabetes/Food-and-diet/Eating-out/

Mind you, I did just notice that it was in the "Info for teenagers" section. Cos, you know, I know exactly what I'm doing!


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## Northerner (Apr 18, 2016)

Snowdog63 said:


> It may be info from the seventies but it's currently on the DUK web site:
> 
> https://www.diabetes.org.uk/Guide-to-diabetes/Teens/Me-and-my-diabetes/Food-and-diet/Eating-out/
> 
> Mind you, I did just notice that it was in the "Info for teenagers" section. Cos, you know, I know exactly what I'm doing!


Sadly, that advice is very much driven by the 'received wisdom' of the past 30 years that has demonised fat and largely ignored the effect of a high carbohydrate diet, particularly on a Type 2 who may not be able counter the effect with something like insulin (the section probably assumes that those reading it are Type 1 as most youngsters are, and therefore taking insulin). Reading it, it is quite shocking!  Things are changing, but sloooooooowly, as people are starting to realise that the great increase in obesity and poor health began around the same time as things were being marketed as 'low fat' - the fat being replaced by carbs, especially sugar! 

The best diet for someone with diabetes is one that their body can tolerate well.  Discovering what works best for the individual is the tricky part!


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## robert@fm (Apr 18, 2016)

I for one think that we have Ancel Keys (or A***hole Keys as I for one think of him) to blame for the poor state of world health today; he was the main advocate, if not the author, of the "carbs good, fat bad" hoax which created the obesity crisis (and led to the idiotic advice that diabetes is best treated with lashings of the one thing no diabetic can handle properly — carbohydrate)


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## Mark Parrott (Apr 18, 2016)

I consider myself carb intolerant.


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