# Guidance regarding amount of carbs per day



## BeOdd (Mar 11, 2020)

Being recently diagnosed with type 2 diabetes ... I would like to know how many carbs I should aim for daily


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## SB2015 (Mar 11, 2020)

The answer so often on here is ‘It depends ‘.

We all tolerate different foods in different ways.  The important think to think about is how many carbohydrates you are eating.  In whatever for the carbs are they will convert into glucose once they get inside you.  They then need insulin to deal with them.  If your glucose readings are too high (ie you have Diabetes) then you do not have enough insulin available or it does not work properly.  If you eat less carbs you will need less insulin.  

One good thing to do would be to find out how much carbs you are taking on board at each meal.  You can then reduce this.  No need to take any notice of the ‘of which sugars’.  Just focus on the total carbs in each meal.  The info for this will be on packets, or on google, and I know for me when we started to do this we were surprised.


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## BeOdd (Mar 11, 2020)

Thankyou for your advice .... I just needed to know if 100 carbs a day is average for type 2 diabetes or would it be more like 30 carbs ... I was hoping for a rough guide to aim for to reduce my sugar intake


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## Drummer (Mar 11, 2020)

This problem is why you often see people reporting being advised to ignore the GP or nurse telling them not to get a meter and find out their blood glucose levels - the amount of carbs, and the foods to choose are very individual - some, like me, have to limit all the high and even medium carb foods because of the spikes they cause - I thought that reducing from 50 gm of carbs down to 40 as the daily limit might push down Hba1c numbers - nope - rock solid on 42.
I'd advise taking your sugar consumption right down as a starter - that cuts out so much which is going to hinder progress. Then the starches - change bread to a low carb version such as Livlife or a protein bread such as that sold in Asda, instead of potatoes, parsnips, carrots have cauliflower, courgette, swede or turnip, avoid grains - even sweetcorn and porridge until you see your numbers coming down. You can make the changes gradually, as eating low carb is very effective.
These days, some years from diagnosis I eat in the mornings, a chop or steak and mushrooms, coffee with cream, and then don't need to eat again until the evening. Salad, stirfry or roasted veges all selected to be 10 percent carbs or less seem to do the trick.
I got my meter from Spirit Healthcare, registered first, did a confirmatory email response and then ordered their Tee 2 meter, lancets and pots of testing strips free of VAT as a consequence of being diagnosed with diabetes.


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## trophywench (Mar 11, 2020)

Well the amount that you can tolerate is the amount you can tolerate and there's no minimum or maximum to that because every single person's personal toleration is different.  Hence each of us needs to discover that by using a BG meter to inform us.






						Test, Review, Adjust
					

Managing blood glucose levels for type 2 diabetes. Learning how to achieve long term control by testing and diet.




					loraldiabetes.blogspot.com


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## grovesy (Mar 11, 2020)

I would start at 100 and take it from there.


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## BeOdd (Mar 11, 2020)

Drummer said:


> This problem is why you often see people reporting being advised to ignore the GP or nurse telling them not to get a meter and find out their blood glucose levels - the amount of carbs, and the foods to choose are very individual - some, like me, have to limit all the high and even medium carb foods because of the spikes they cause - I thought that reducing from 50 gm of carbs down to 40 as the daily limit might push down Hba1c numbers - nope - rock solid on 42.
> I'd advise taking your sugar consumption right down as a starter - that cuts out so much which is going to hinder progress. Then the starches - change bread to a low carb version such as Livlife or a protein bread such as that sold in Asda, instead of potatoes, parsnips, carrots have cauliflower, courgette, swede or turnip, avoid grains - even sweetcorn and porridge until you see your numbers coming down. You can make the changes gradually, as eating low carb is very effective.
> These days, some years from diagnosis I eat in the mornings, a chop or steak and mushrooms, coffee with cream, and then don't need to eat again until the evening. Salad, stirfry or roasted veges all selected to be 10 percent carbs or less seem to do the trick.
> I got my meter from Spirit Healthcare, registered first, did a confirmatory email response and then ordered their Tee 2 meter, lancets and pots of testing strips free of VAT as a consequence of being diagnosed with diabetes.


Oh Thankyou that was very helpful! So it depends on the individual then really.  I always have porridge for breakfast!  .... and I graze all day long ... little and often ...... there is no food on the planet that I don’t like!.... I live to eat .... my life revolves around food !!!! So I have my work cut out starting from the moment I get up !!!! Watch this space .... it shall be one almighty challenge


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## BeOdd (Mar 11, 2020)

grovesy said:


> I would start at 100 and take it from there.


That was my thought!


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## Mrsw2811 (Mar 11, 2020)

The DESMOND course I went to in Feb recommended less than 120g carbs and low fats. But, everyone is different and there are many different diets being followed on this forum. I'm trying to stick to under 120g carbs most days until my next hba1c to see if it helps me. Good luck.


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## BeOdd (Mar 11, 2020)

Mrsw2811 said:


> The DESMOND course I went to in Feb recommended less than 120g carbs and low fats. But, everyone is different and there are many different diets being followed on this forum. I'm trying to stick to under 120g carbs most days until my next hba1c to see if it helps me. Good luck.


  I think that is the course I am booked for, but not until the end of April ... that is the only thing I really needed help with, so thanks for replying .... I shall use 120 as my highest and take it from there. If I hadn’t eaten a whole pyramid of Ferrera Rochet and a multi pack of Crunchies all to myself at Christmas I reckon I would still be Pre Diabetic!!!


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## Mrsw2811 (Mar 11, 2020)

BeOdd said:


> I think that is the course I am booked for, but not until the end of April ... that is the only thing I really needed help with, so thanks for replying .... I shall use 120 as my highest and take it from there. If I hadn’t eaten a whole pyramid of Ferrera Rochet and a multi pack of Crunchies all to myself at Christmas I reckon I would still be Pre Diabetic!!!


Ha ha! That sounds delicious


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## Drummer (Mar 11, 2020)

BeOdd said:


> Oh Thankyou that was very helpful! So it depends on the individual then really.  I always have porridge for breakfast!  .... and I graze all day long ... little and often ...... there is no food on the planet that I don’t like!.... I live to eat .... my life revolves around food !!!! So I have my work cut out starting from the moment I get up !!!! Watch this space .... it shall be one almighty challenge


You might be able to manage porridge - some people can, some need to be careful about the amount, or the type of oats they use, and then there's me, who just can't cope with anything grain in the mornings.
I eat meat or fish and low carb foods, which can be quite a large meal - in the hot weather I had a large salad. I do like the foods I can have - but I don't need to eat again all day after a nourishing breakfast. You can eat if you need to - there is always something to eat with the low carb way of eating - just avoid carbohydrate. If you are constantly topping up your intake of carbs you are also topping up your blood glucose level.


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## BeOdd (Mar 11, 2020)

Thanks for the info!.... I am on a mission now to find out what I cannot eat ... rather than what I can ... I think it might be easier


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## grovesy (Mar 12, 2020)

It is not always what as simple as that sometimes it can different eating things at different times of the day. Also sometimes adjusting the size of the portion can make a difference.


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## Docb (Mar 12, 2020)

All said above but one thing you might do is to do a retrospective food diary and see just how much carbohydrate you have been eating.  Take a typical day and write down everything, including all the grazing and coffees and whatever.  Look up carbohydrate content for each item and add it all up.  You may have to weigh out some of "your size" portions and do some sums to get carb content for some things.

This will give you a base line and help you when thinking about targets. It will also help you to spot any easy targets - high carb items that can be eliminated from your diet - and it will give you a bit of practice in carb checking, something you will soon get very used to!


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## BeOdd (Mar 12, 2020)

Docb said:


> All said above but one thing you might do is to do a retrospective food diary and see just how much carbohydrate you have been eating.  Take a typical day and write down everything, including all the grazing and coffees and whatever.  Look up carbohydrate content for each item and add it all up.  You may have to weigh out some of "your size" portions and do some sums to get carb content for some things.
> 
> This will give you a base line and help you when thinking about targets. It will also help you to spot any easy targets - high carb items that can be eliminated from your diet - and it will give you a bit of practice in carb checking, something you will soon get very used to!


Now that makes a lot of sense to me! I shall take your advice and I am sure I will get the hang of it! Thankyou!


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## BeOdd (Mar 12, 2020)

grovesy said:


> It is not always what as simple as that sometimes it can different eating things at different times of the day. Also sometimes adjusting the size of the portion can make a difference.


Thank you! I did an experiment today to see what I can get away with ... I was out and about so I ate battered cod, peas and chips ... it was 5.2 the day before ... last night I was 6.6 .... so I now know how naughty that was ! But it had to be done ... I need to know what favourite foods I have to avoid from here on in... but it will be worth it not to have to take medication. It shall be trial and error for the first few weeks


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## Eddy Edson (Mar 12, 2020)

BeOdd said:


> Thank you! I did an experiment today to see what I can get away with ... I was out and about so I ate battered cod, peas and chips ... it was 5.2 the day before ... last night I was 6.6 .... so I now know how naughty that was ! But it had to be done ... I need to know what favourite foods I have to avoid from here on in... but it will be worth it not to have to take medication. It shall be trial and error for the first few weeks



Nothing much wrong with 6.6 though.

Seriously, I strongly advise not getting stressed about readings in the 6's


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## BeOdd (Mar 12, 2020)

Eddy Edson said:


> Nothing much wrong with 6.6 though.
> 
> Seriously, I strongly advise not getting stressed about readings in the 6's


I was Pre Diabetes in November ... Christmas was the straw that broke the Camel’s back I think ... the reading was 6.8 when the nurse told me I had type 2 .... no meds tho, I have three months to lose weight and bring the number down to 5 ... I take enough meds as it is so I am on a mission !!!!!!


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## BeOdd (Mar 12, 2020)

Thankyou all for your helpful information... it gives me plenty to work on to give me a good start .... now then what shall I have for breakfast


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## Felinia (Mar 12, 2020)

I started at 90gm a day and tried to reduce to 50gm a day.  But I felt unwell and ended up on 75gm +-15gm after a few weeks of experimenting with measuring before and 2 hours after meals.  I normally come out at around 75gm but don't panic if I'm a bit over.  But don't forget to include all your fluids, milk, sauces, snacks etc.


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## BeOdd (Mar 12, 2020)

Felinia said:


> I started at 90gm a day and tried to reduce to 50gm a day.  But I felt unwell and ended up on 75gm +-15gm after a few weeks of experimenting with measuring before and 2 hours after meals.  I normally come out at around 75gm but don't panic if I'm a bit over.  But don't forget to include all your fluids, milk, sauces, snacks etc.


Thankyou for that! I need to find a good source of Carbohydrate amounts in gravy etc . Wondering if there is a booklet to be had that is like the Slimming World  list of foods that are sins ....but list carb amounts instead


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## Eddy Edson (Mar 12, 2020)

BeOdd said:


> Thankyou for that! I need to find a good source of Carbohydrate amounts in gravy etc . Wondering if there is a booklet to be had that is like the Slimming World  list of foods that are sins ....but list carb amounts instead



Check out "Carbs & Calories". A lot of people around here seem to find it very useful.


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## BeOdd (Mar 12, 2020)

Eddy Edson said:


> Check out "Carbs & Calories". A lot of people around here seem to find it very useful.


Thankyou! Is it on this website?


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## Eddy Edson (Mar 12, 2020)

BeOdd said:


> Thankyou! Is it on this website?



It's a book, maybe also an app? I'm sure somebody will be along with more details - I don't use it, but it's very popular.


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## Eddy Edson (Mar 12, 2020)

Eddy Edson said:


> It's a book, maybe also an app? I'm sure somebody will be along with more details - I don't use it, but it's very popular.



Anyway, you can buy the book via DUK: https://shop.diabetes.org.uk/products/carbs-cals


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## BeOdd (Mar 12, 2020)

Eddy Edson said:


> It's a book, maybe also an app? I'm sure somebody will be along with more details - I don't use it, but it's very popular.


Ooooh I am on the case Thankyou!


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## everydayupsanddowns (Mar 12, 2020)

Welcome to the forum @BeOdd 

Hope you find a sustainable way of eating that suits you, your tastebuds and your BG


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## Felinia (Mar 12, 2020)

BeOdd said:


> Thankyou for that! I need to find a good source of Carbohydrate amounts in gravy etc . Wondering if there is a booklet to be had that is like the Slimming World  list of foods that are sins ....but list carb amounts instead


I use a website called NutraCheck and there are others like My Fitness Pal.  I looked up gravy for you.  50ml proper beef gravy is 24 cals and 2.2gm carbs.  50ml chicken gravy is 22 cals and 2.7gm carbs.  Bisto beef gravy granules made up to 50ml is 14cals and 2.7gm carbs.  Bisto chicken gravy granules made up to 50ml is 13cals and 2.0gm carbs.


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## BeOdd (Mar 12, 2020)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Welcome to the forum @BeOdd
> 
> Hope you find a sustainable way of eating that suits you, your tastebuds and your BG


Well I enjoy food so much ... I am already planning my next meal as I am eating what is in front of me ... but I also enjoy a challenge and won’t let anything beat me ... I have turned it into a positive occurrence and believe it was a wake up call to treat my body with more respect... I actually eat a good balanced diet, but it is snacks that are my downfall. I always feel nauseous when I am hungry so I eat something whilst waiting for my meal to cook


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## rebrascora (Mar 12, 2020)

BeOdd said:


> Thank you! I did an experiment today to see what I can get away with ... I was out and about so I ate battered cod, peas and chips ... it was 5.2 the day before ... last night I was 6.6 .... so I now know how naughty that was ! But it had to be done ... I need to know what favourite foods I have to avoid from here on in... but it will be worth it not to have to take medication. It shall be trial and error for the first few weeks



Hi

Testing once a day will tell you little to nothing about which foods you can get away with and which you need to reduce portion size or eliminate. BG varies quite significantly through the day, even for a non diabetic. What you are looking for is your BG response to food. To find this, you need to test before each meal and then 2 hours after eating it. The 2 hour point afterwards is usually roughly the point at which your BG will peak as a result of the food, although if it was a particularly fatty meal like pizza, the peak can occur later. If your BG rises by 3 or more(but ideally no more than 2) at that 2 hour point after eating, then you ate too many carbs and need to reduce the carb content of that meal.

I too used to be like you and could eat my weight in sweets without getting sick and snacked between meals or whilst I was cooking. Since I started following a low carb, high fat way of eating I rarely feel hungry because the fat takes longer to digest than carbs, so it makes me feel fuller for longer and provides slow release energy and I often don't bother with lunch because I just don't need it. I eat so much less food than I used to but I eat good quality food. It has been a total revelation to no longer have those cravings and be so dependent on/obsessed with food but still very much enjoy what I eat.  Over Christmas, people were eating chocolates and offering me some and it was not difficult to refuse..... this is pretty much a miracle as far as I am concerned as I was a chocoholic. It takes 2-3 months for your body and mind to come to terms with low carb eating but for me it has been quite liberating as I feel like I have control again. 

For me it was important to find low carb snacks that I enjoyed, particularly in the early days, so for those occasions when you feel hungry or a bit nauseous, have a chunk of cheese or some nuts (walnuts or brazils or hazelnuts are lowest carb) or some veggie crudités with sour cream and chive dip or a boiled egg with a dollop of full fat mayonnaise or a few olives if you like them or a slice of ham with some creamy coleslaw.

We have spent our whole lives being told that fat is bad and to eat low fat, but because of the absence of fat in our diet we feel hungry more often and want to eat more and the thing we eat more of is carbs. Those carbs make us want to eat more carbs and our bodies produce insulin to deal with the glucose from those carbs but we are not doing enough exercise to burn them off so the body stores them as fat and eventually either our pancreas gets weary of producing so much insulin and starts to falter or our body starts to become immune to all hat insulin (insulin resistance) or we have no more capacity to store the glucose as fat, so there is resistance from the cells in accepting it.... and we get diabetes. The answer seems quite logical to eat less carbs and more fat...... there is also a growing school of thought that the research 70years ago on which the low fat dietary advice was based may well have been flawed and in any case. the obesity we now suffer as a society is leading people to higher risk of Cardiovascular problems than eating fat ever did. Surprisingly, fat does not in itself make you fat because it is self limiting..... you really don't want to eat too much of it as it is rich and you get full quickly, whereas 2-3 hours after eating carbs you are often looking for a top up/snack because your body stashed the glucose away and your BG levels are dropping.

Hopefully some of that makes sense. 

I was very sceptical of eating more fat, but my weight is now stable at a normal BMI, I no longer feel hungry all the time and best of all, I enjoy my food.... I just don't feel the need to eat a lot of the rubbish throughout the day. For me now, on a very low carb diet, an occasional apple (with cheese) or banana (usually with a large helping of cream) is a huge treat and I really appreciate and savour them.... far more than I ever did before and more than I ever did with a packet of sweets.  NB. The fatty food (cheese or cream) with the fruit slows the release of glucose from the fructose in the fruit, so you don't get a big BG spike from it.


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## BeOdd (Mar 12, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> Hi
> 
> Testing once a day will tell you little to nothing about which foods you can get away with and which you need to reduce portion size or eliminate. BG varies quite significantly through the day, even for a non diabetic. What you are looking for is your BG response to food. To find this, you need to test before each meal and then 2 hours after eating it. The 2 hour point afterwards is usually roughly the point at which your BG will peak as a result of the food, although if it was a particularly fatty meal like pizza, the peak can occur later. If your BG rises by 3 or more(but ideally no more than 2) at that 2 hour point after eating, then you ate too many carbs and need to reduce the carb content of that meal.
> 
> ...


Thankyou for taking the trouble to write all of that! I shall get back to you later after I have had time to read and absorb .... but first I have to get some food down my neck! All this talk of food is making me hungry


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## silentsquirrel (Mar 12, 2020)

BeOdd said:


> Thank you! I did an experiment today to see what I can get away with ... I was out and about so I ate battered cod, peas and chips ... it was 5.2 the day before ... last night I was 6.6 .... so I now know how naughty that was ! But it had to be done ... I need to know what favourite foods I have to avoid from here on in... but it will be worth it not to have to take medication. It shall be trial and error for the first few weeks


If the 6.6 was a long time after eating, you do not know how high it may have risen before falling again.  As @rebrascora says, structured testing is needed!


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## Drummer (Mar 12, 2020)

I found that eating fewer carbs in the mornings was good - like 10 gm with breakfast and the rest in the evening - it meant that I could have a dessert after dinner if I still felt the need later on, and it showed that I was more resistant to my insulin AM  than PM. Being able to eat fish chips and peas and not spiking stratospheric is good - concentrating on not eating the sugary foods to start with might be your super power - but you do need to be consistent with your testing at the two hour point, otherwise you can't make any comparisons.


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## BeOdd (Mar 12, 2020)

silentsquirrel said:


> If the 6.6 was a long time after eating, you do not know how high it may have risen before falling again.  As @rebrascora says, structured testing is needed!


It was an hour after the meal ... I am testing willy nilly... I don’t want to waste the strips but I need like you say to get some structure going ... I was thinking that after a fortnight of once a day, that I would do it weekly not to waste them... I really haven’t got a clue have I . I need to absorb all the comments and the course can’t come soon enough!


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## silentsquirrel (Mar 12, 2020)

BeOdd said:


> It was an hour after the meal ... I am testing willy nilly... I don’t want to waste the strips but I need like you say to get some structure going ... I was thinking that after a fortnight of once a day, that I would do it weekly not to waste them... I really haven’t got a clue have I . I need to absorb all the comments and the course can’t come soon enough!


OK, so with a fatty meal like fish and chips the peak of the rise is often more like 3 or 4 hours than 2, so you may have gone much higher than 6.6 later on.  With something high carb but low fat like cereal, the peak could be well under 2 hours.

Because of the cost of strips, we cannot really test 2, 3 or more times after each meal as well as before, so we recommend testing at first bite and 2 hours later to be consistent.


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## rebrascora (Mar 12, 2020)

An hour after eating a fatty meal like fish and chips and mushy peas, the majority of the carbs will not have been digested so the glucose from them will hardly have started hitting your blood stream and therefore the reading you took means nothing and you wasted that strip anyway. The best advice that I can give you is to buy plenty of test strips.... at least 2 or 3 pots of 50 and test just before and then 2 hours after each meal and keep a food diary with your readings. The fish and chips and peas (which are also a carb heavy veg) could very easily have pushed your BG into double figures a couple of hours later and kept it there fore several hours later but without testing at the appropriate time you might happily continue to eat it and your next HbA1c result at the docs be a big disappointment.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Mar 12, 2020)

BeOdd said:


> It was an hour after the meal ... I am testing willy nilly... I don’t want to waste the strips but I need like you say to get some structure going ... I was thinking that after a fortnight of once a day, that I would do it weekly not to waste them... I really haven’t got a clue have I . I need to absorb all the comments and the course can’t come soon enough!



I agree with others who have said that occasional random spot-checks can only tell you so much ‘background’ information, but can’t really give you actionable results for any particular meal. More structured pre- and post-meal checks, along with a food diary (especially if you can guess/estimate the amount and type of carbs in different meals) will help you to adapt your meal plan to aim for more BG-friendly choices, without unduly having to restrict choices that your body is fine with.


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## SB2015 (Mar 12, 2020)

With some structured testing before and a fixed time, such as two hours, after a meal along with info about the amount of carbs you have eaten will give you info that you can then act on.  With simple random spot checks you will not have enough info to make changes.


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## BeOdd (Mar 12, 2020)

silentsquirrel said:


> OK, so with a fatty meal like fish and chips the peak of the rise is often more like 3 or 4 hours than 2, so you may have gone much higher than 6.6 later on.  With something high carb but low fat like cereal, the peak could be well under 2 hours.
> 
> Because of the cost of strips, we cannot really test 2, 3 or more times after each meal as well as before, so we recommend testing at first bite and 2 hours later to be consistent.


Ooooof!!!  Much higher than6.6 later ???!!! Now that is a worry ....  I don’t want to be testing every whipstitch so the sooner I can find food  that will keep me consistent the better really! Thankyou for all your help, I learned a lot from that and shall make bullet points to help me along the way. I have learned a lot today so Thankyou!!!


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## rebrascora (Mar 12, 2020)

6.6 is nothing! Some of us have to try not to worry too much when we wake up in double figures and then go up to 15 after breakfast, even when we have injected insulin, so don't be too frightened of individual numbers although obviously you want to keep them low. It is just important to understand that there can be quite a fluctuation in BG levels and particularly after food and therefore using that information to guide what you eat and what to avoid is important and hugely beneficial.


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## BeOdd (Mar 12, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> 6.6 is nothing! Some of us have to try not to worry too much when we wake up in double figures and then go up to 15 after breakfast, even when we have injected insulin, so don't be too frightened of individual numbers although obviously you want to keep them low. It is just important to understand that there can be quite a fluctuation in BG levels and particularly after food and therefore using that information to guide what you eat and what to avoid is important and hugely beneficial.


Yes I realise that now and also it dawned on me today that when you read a food label and the sugar content seems low .... there are other sugars hidden in the carbs!!!! Sneaky eh!!!! But I am learning something every day ... I will get there in the end ... sooner rather than later hopefully... I watch every cookery programme under the sun ..... maybe I should just watch the soaps


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## Drummer (Mar 12, 2020)

Sugars and starches are the carbohydrates, they are not separate categories of food, even though they are often regarded as such. When you look at the nutritional information - unless there are sugar alcohols which would be counted in, even though it would be your gut flora and fauna that digest them (and have a party) - but the average food will show the net carbohydrate, which you can digest, and the sugar is often listed  as an 'of which' - but that isn't all that important.


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## BeOdd (Mar 12, 2020)

Drummer said:


> Sugars and starches are the carbohydrates, they are not separate categories of food, even though they are often regarded as such. When you look at the nutritional information - unless there are sugar alcohols which would be counted in, even though it would be your gut flora and fauna that digest them (and have a party) - but the average food will show the net carbohydrate, which you can digest, and the sugar is often listed  as an 'of which' - but that isn't all that important.


Oh!!!! And I have been getting excited when I read the label and there is nought point something sugar , even if the carbs are high!!! Actually I have done that for a long time as I have been reading labels to check the salt too. When I started doing Slimming World I thought I would never get into it but it only took a week or so..... I hope this will be the case with low carbs as this is important


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## rebrascora (Mar 12, 2020)

The traffic light labelling system on the front of packaging is of no interest to us diabetics. You need to dig out your reading glasses (no offence intended but the print is often tiny) and read the nutritional information on the back of the packets which will list protein, carbohydrate and then underneath that "of which sugars" and then fat and all the other nutrients. The carbohydrate value, which will be given as grams per 100grams is probably the only thing of interest to you as a diabetic. It may also give the number of carbs per "portion" and it should specify the portion size. I spend twice as long at the supermarket now squinting at labels and then fishing my glasses out of my bag to be sure of what it says... even more annoying when having diabetes often affects your ability to see as clearly as you used to! Thankfully once you learn what to buy and how  best to cook it, you only need to read labels on new items that you fancy trying.


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## BeOdd (Mar 12, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> The traffic light labelling system on the front of packaging is of no interest to us diabetics. You need to dig out your reading glasses (no offence intended but the print is often tiny) and read the nutritional information on the back of the packets which will list protein, carbohydrate and then underneath that "of which sugars" and then fat and all the other nutrients. The carbohydrate value, which will be given as grams per 100grams is probably the only thing of interest to you as a diabetic. It may also give the number of carbs per "portion" and it should specify the portion size. I spend twice as long at the supermarket now squinting at labels and then fishing my glasses out of my bag to be sure of what it says... even more annoying when having diabetes often affects your ability to see as clearly as you used to! Thankfully once you learn what to buy and how  best to cook it, you only need to read labels on new items that you fancy trying.


I have taken everything I have read today on board so off to do some shopping tomorrow armed with my glasses ... went without them today and found myself taking screen shots with my phone to zoom in on the labels !!!


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## BeOdd (Mar 13, 2020)

Felinia said:


> I use a website called NutraCheck and there are others like My Fitness Pal.  I looked up gravy for you.  50ml proper beef gravy is 24 cals and 2.2gm carbs.  50ml chicken gravy is 22 cals and 2.7gm carbs.  Bisto beef gravy granules made up to 50ml is 14cals and 2.7gm carbs.  Bisto chicken gravy granules made up to 50ml is 13cals and 2.0gm carbs.


that’s good news! I shall check them both out! Thankyou!


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## gil2625 (Mar 20, 2020)

BeOdd said:


> I think that is the course I am booked for, but not until the end of April ... that is the only thing I really needed help with, so thanks for replying .... I shall use 120 as my highest and take it from there. If I hadn’t eaten a whole pyramid of Ferrera Rochet and a multi pack of Crunchies all to myself at Christmas I reckon I would still be Pre Diabetic!!!


I can associate with that I had my yearly Hb1Ac shortly after a 16 night cruise, Christmas and 70th Birthday whereby I thoroughly enjoyed a lovely family meal at Cosmo (PanAsian eat as much as you like buffet) AND lovely birthday cake for a few days SO, now I have to live with being T2 diabetic instead of pre-diabetic but working on kicking it into touch as lost 10 lbs in 5 weeks which normally I would not be pleased with but just returned from 9 days in NYC and Las Vegas


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## BeOdd (Mar 21, 2020)

gil2625 said:


> I can associate with that I had my yearly Hb1Ac shortly after a 16 night cruise, Christmas and 70th Birthday whereby I thoroughly enjoyed a lovely family meal at Cosmo (PanAsian eat as much as you like buffet) AND lovely birthday cake for a few days SO, now I have to live with being T2 diabetic instead of pre-diabetic but working on kicking it into touch as lost 10 lbs in 5 weeks which normally I would not be pleased with but just returned from 9 days in NYC and Las Vegas


Home safe and sound then! Looks like you chose the right time to travel! I am also determined to reverse things as much as possible ... I would normally have five roast potatoes with a dinner... tonight I had two and it was enough! It has only taken me a few weeks to get used to it and I feel more healthy eating less carbs. I have bought three books that are helping me enormously... I couldn’t have done it without them!


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## Marilyn Phelps (Mar 21, 2020)

What sweet things can you eat, any ideas?


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## Felinia (Mar 21, 2020)

Marilyn Phelps said:


> What sweet things can you eat, any ideas?


I stick to an 80gm portion of frozen berries plus a dollop of natural Greek yogurt.  As a treat I have a couple of squares of 70%+ dark chocolate.


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## rebrascora (Mar 21, 2020)

@Marilyn Phelps 

It is best if you can wean yourself off sweet stuff for a bit I found. I had an Olympic standard sweet tooth and I found the more I ate, the more I wanted. Resensitizing/educating your taste buds to recognise sweetness where previously it might have seemed sour or bitter is quite helpful. I would happily demolish a 200g bar of Cadbury's Dairy Milk chocolate without blinking and still want more prediagnosis. Now like @Felinia, half a square of dark 70%+ chocolate with a spoon of peanut butter to bulk it out, is my sweet treat  and I really savour it or 5 raspberries and 10 blueberries with a dollop of full fat Creamy Greek natural yoghurt and a spoon of ground almonds and a sprinkling of mixed seeds works well as a desert or as breakfast on the days when I haven't got time to make an omelette and salad.


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## gil2625 (Mar 21, 2020)

Yes BeOdd got back on 10th March and within a few days it was announced that it was like a ghost town in NYC and our hotel then subsequently all hotels closed in Las Vegas.  So can look back at a great time, just in time


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## LornaV (Mar 23, 2020)

BeOdd said:


> Oh Thankyou that was very helpful! So it depends on the individual then really.  I always have porridge for breakfast!  .... and I graze all day long ... little and often ...... there is no food on the planet that I don’t like!.... I live to eat .... my life revolves around food !!!! So I have my work cut out starting from the moment I get up !!!! Watch this space .... it shall be one almighty challenge


Phew, glad i’m not the only one feeling ‘challenged’. I’ll be happy to watch your progress - I think I’m still in denial I’m so overwhelmed.


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## LornaV (Mar 23, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> @Marilyn Phelps
> 
> It is best if you can wean yourself off sweet stuff for a bit I found. I had an Olympic standard sweet tooth and I found the more I ate, the more I wanted. Resensitizing/educating your taste buds to recognise sweetness where previously it might have seemed sour or bitter is quite helpful. I would happily demolish a 200g bar of Cadbury's Dairy Milk chocolate without blinking and still want more prediagnosis. Now like @Felinia, half a square of dark 70%+ chocolate with a spoon of peanut butter to bulk it out, is my sweet treat  and I really savour it or 5 raspberries and 10 blueberries with a dollop of full fat Creamy Greek natural yoghurt and a spoon of ground almonds and a sprinkling of mixed seeds works well as a desert or as breakfast on the days when I haven't got time to make an omelette and salad.


Thanks for sharing, this is really helpful to someone who definitely has a very sweet tooth and is finding it hard to adapt.


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## BeOdd (Mar 23, 2020)

LornaV said:


> Phew, glad i’m not the only one feeling ‘challenged’. I’ll be happy to watch your progress - I think I’m still in denial I’m so overwhelmed.


I have read so much information from various sources and some of it contradicts ! 
i am now armed wit three books which along with the info on this site , I am getting well into it and wish I had sone this sooner... it was a wake up call for me ... I shall text the names of the three books later.


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## LornaV (Mar 23, 2020)

BeOdd said:


> I have read so much information from various sources and some of it contradicts !
> i am now armed wit three books which along with the info on this site , I am getting well into it and wish I had sone this sooner... it was a wake up call for me ... I shall text the names of the three books later.


Oh me too. I’ve been so confused with all the contradictory/ different information available.


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## BeOdd (Mar 23, 2020)

LornaV said:


> Oh me too. I’ve been so confused with all the contradictory/ different information available.


There is one thing I am undecided about .... do I eat full fat yogurt or low fat ... as much as I have read I still can’t decide which has the most sugar


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## Drummer (Mar 23, 2020)

Usually the full fat is lower, but check on the label just to be sure.


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## BeOdd (Mar 23, 2020)

Well I have been thoroughly enjoying full fat Greek yogurt with crushed raspberries and flaked almonds! It satisfies my need for something sweet ... I stocked up with full fat before I self isolated ... more precious than toilet roll!


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## LornaV (Mar 23, 2020)

This is one thing I’m really confused about - here in Belgium I’m told to eat everything as low fat as possible. Is the sugar content more important than the fat content? I’ve been surviving on no fat  no sugar natural fromage frais or yogurt with raspberries and some sweetner.


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## rebrascora (Mar 23, 2020)

@LornaV It is the carbohydrate content that you need to be looking at on labels. Forget the sugar although in yoghurt the carbs will be mostly sugar.... but for all foods, just look at the carbohydrate content because that includes the sugar and starches and they all break down to glucose in the digestive system and cause us diabetics problems.

As regards fat, in my opinion, it is the low fat advice which is at least partly responsible for this huge diabetic epidemic we are part of. Fat is satisfying. It takes longer to digest and so it keeps you fuller for longer and provides slow release energy. Carbohydrates break down really quickly and give you a surge of blood glucose but are often as quick to disappear leaving you wanting more. There is now a growing wave of scientific thought that the low fat advice which was developed 70 years ago and has been the mainstay of dietary advice pretty much around the world since then, was based on flawed research. The food industry has developed a lucrative business of producing low fat products and added extra sugar or starches(both cheaper products) to improve the flavour and texture because low fat products are not so attractive, which has meant that we have become accustomed to things being sweeter than they should be.

The difficulty is that governments have spent 70 years telling us to eat low fat to prevent cardiovascular disease, but we are getting diabetes instead which then puts us at higher risk of CV, Eating too many carbs also leads to obesity. Once you cut the carbs out and eat more fat, you don't put on weight because you don't want to eat huge amounts of fat because it is rich and filling, whereas the more carbs you eat, the more you want. It is very difficult to turn the tide on this huge juggernaut of low fat advice which has been perpetuated all our lives, so it is not surprising that your Health Care Professionals (HCPs) are still advising "low fat" to diabetics instead of "low carb higher fat" which makes more sense. 

I was really sceptical about this last year when people here on the forum started suggesting eating more fat which was totally against the advice I had been given by the nurse and dietician, but I did some research and decided to give it a try and I feel so much better for eating very low carb and high fat foods and my cholesterol is starting to come down, which is contrary to everything we have been lead to believe. I am now convinced this is the answer for me. 
I very rarely get cravings now whereas I used to be gnawing my knuckles for my next bar of chocolate or bag of sweets or biscuits and could not stop at just one or even 2 or 3..... never happy until the packet was empty. 
I love that I am now in control of what I eat and can easily refuse chocolates or cake when they are being passed round in front of me. This is, in itself, a total revelation. It doesn't happen overnight as it takes time for your body to get used to running on fat instead of carbs as it's main source of fuel, but once it has adjusted, you just don't crave it anymore

When you get over your sweet tooth, you will find creamy natural Greek yoghurt tastes delicious without adding sugar and putting cream in your coffee instead of milk means you no longer need sweetener in it. The cream has less carbs than milk and again the fat helps to keep you from feeling hungry. Eventually you will find that you need to eat far less if you eat more fat. Things like a chunk of cheese instead of a biscuit or piece of cake is more satisfying. Amazingly, I don't feel deprived because I have my little luxuries like cream in my morning coffee.


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## grovesy (Mar 23, 2020)

LornaV said:


> This is one thing I’m really confused about - here in Belgium I’m told to eat everything as low fat as possible. Is the sugar content more important than the fat content? I’ve been surviving on no fat  no sugar natural fromage frais or yogurt with raspberries and some sweetner.


Are you sure the no fat no sugar fromage frais are truly so, even 16 years ago I was advised to avoid low fat foods, as even then it was known they were made more palatable by adding sugar.


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## LornaV (Mar 23, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> Hi
> 
> Testing once a day will tell you little to nothing about which foods you can get away with and which you need to reduce portion size or eliminate. BG varies quite significantly through the day, even for a non diabetic. What you are looking for is your BG response to food. To find this, you need to test before each meal and then 2 hours after eating it. The 2 hour point afterwards is usually roughly the point at which your BG will peak as a result of the food, although if it was a particularly fatty meal like pizza, the peak can occur later. If your BG rises by 3 or more(but ideally no more than 2) at that 2 hour point after eating, then you ate too many carbs and need to reduce the carb content of that meal.
> 
> ...


This is amazing news for me being new to the whole diabetes thing. I’ve read on US sites about keto diets and cutting down carbs while eating more fat, but honestly was quite sceptical. The way you explain it makes sense, and gives me hope of getting rid of my sweet tooth and binging tendencies when I get fed up of following all the stringent rules.


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## BeOdd (Mar 23, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> @LornaV It is the carbohydrate content that you need to be looking at on labels. Forget the sugar although in yoghurt the carbs will be mostly sugar.... but for all foods, just look at the carbohydrate content because that includes the sugar and starches and they all break down to glucose in the digestive system and cause us diabetics problems.
> 
> As regards fat, in my opinion, it is the low fat advice which is at least partly responsible for this huge diabetic epidemic we are part of. Fat is satisfying. It takes longer to digest and so it keeps you fuller for longer and provides slow release energy. Carbohydrates break down really quickly and give you a surge of blood glucose but are often as quick to disappear leaving you wanting more. There is now a growing wave of scientific thought that the low fat advice which was developed 70 years ago and has been the mainstay of dietary advice pretty much around the world since then, was based on flawed research. The food industry has developed a lucrative business of producing low fat products and added extra sugar or starches(both cheaper products) to improve the flavour and texture because low fat products are not so attractive, which has meant that we have become accustomed to things being sweeter than they should be.
> 
> ...


 Thankyou Barbara .... that confirms what I have been reading and was starting to enjoy creamy yogurt again until yesterday when I read something that made me think I was doing wrong ... we are having shopping delivered tomorrow and no prizes for guessing what yogurt I ordered  low blinking fat !!!! I am so glad you wrote this Barbara! Thankyou !


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## BeOdd (Mar 23, 2020)

BeOdd said:


> Thankyou Barbara .... that confirms what I have been reading and was starting to enjoy creamy yogurt again until yesterday when I read something that made me think I was doing wrong ... we are having shopping delivered tomorrow and no prizes for guessing what yogurt I ordered  low blinking fat !!!! I am so glad you wrote this Barbara! Thankyou !


Thankyou Lorna it all makes sense now! I am getting confused as to who is writing what and which order the messages are


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## Marmite (Mar 27, 2020)

BeOdd said:


> Being recently diagnosed with type 2 diabetes ... I would like to know how many carbs I should aim for daily


As some of you will have noted I am still very confused about carbs.  Just read NHS -eatwell advice which says starchy foods (potatoes, pasta, bread, cereals) should form the base of ones diet and for the last week I have been trying to reduce.! Surely good old NHS should be listened to?


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## rebrascora (Mar 27, 2020)

Sadly the NHS are behind the curve when it comes to modern dietary advice for diabetics. The problem with the NHS advocating low carb is partly that most people get the majority of their calories and dietary fibre from carbs and grains in particular. If people eat very low carb then the only real options are to eat more fat and protein for fuel (calories). For the past 70 years the government/NHS has been telling us that fat is bad and causes Cardio Vascular Disease. Diabetics are believed to be more at risk of CVD, so they are even more likely to tell us to eat low fat but having a large proportion of our food as protein can put a strain on other organs (as well as finances), so they persist with the wholegrain/wholemeal/brown carbs advice, rather than to encourage us to eat more fat. The thing is that the research which suggested that fat causes CVD 70 years ago is starting to look rather flawed but the government/NHS is loath to change it's policy of a lifetime in recommending low fat as it has not totally been disproved and there is a huge food industry geared to low fat products, so they are stuck with the outdated advice.

I am not a rebel by nature so it took quite a leap of faith for me to go against the NHS low fat, healthy brown carbs advice I was given but my glucose meter and my general wellbeing tells me that it was the right choice for me to go very low carb and high fat. It also helped my thinking in this respect because my Dad ate a very fatty diet with lots of butter, cream and fatty meat all his life and his heart was still strong as an ox even when his lungs gave out at 84yrs old. It was something that always puzzled me as to why his heart was so strong when his diet was supposedly so bad for heart health.

Anyway, I hope that sort of explains why the NHS advice differs so radically from what many people here find beneficial in pushing their diabetes into remission. The best advice any of us can give is to be guided by a blood glucose meter


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## Drummer (Mar 28, 2020)

When a dear but ancient relative goes senile - do you go along with their delusions?
It is a similar situation with the Eatwell plate - it was devised by those who believed that a healthy diet is based on carbs.
Even when there are patients suffering extreme problems, they cling to their belief in starches being good, even to the extent of declaring that it is not the fault of the diet but that the patient is non compliant.


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## Marmite (Apr 15, 2020)

Well, well,    very interesting,  I thank you all for replying.    My session 3 (by video link) is tomorrow and I will endeavour to portray this complete reversal of dietry advice. 
   O.k. , at the moment nhs have more pressing concerns   but I will write .


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## Pine Marten (Apr 17, 2020)

BeOdd said:


> Thank you! I did an experiment today to see what I can get away with ... I was out and about so I ate battered cod, peas and chips ... it was 5.2 the day before ... last night I was 6.6 .... so I now know how naughty that was ! But it had to be done ... I need to know what favourite foods I have to avoid from here on in... but it will be worth it not to have to take medication. It shall be trial and error for the first few weeks


Hi @BeOdd, those numbers look pretty good - when exactly are you testing? To check the effect of different foods you should test just before eating and then again 2 hours after starting to eat. You are looking for no more than a rise of 2-3, so if you are 5.2 before the meal 7.2 afterwards would be ok. (Some people test at the 1 hour and 3 hour point as well, but 2 hrs is fine.)

Er, I've just realised there are many more replies before mine giving a lot of good info ... oh well, never mind!


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## Pina (Apr 29, 2020)

I joined a Diabetic Facebook group, where sometimes people ask about how many carbs to eat per day. Some say 120g daily, some say 100g, some say 20 - 30g daily. The last one annoyed me, how can you survive on 20 - 30g daily?
I've decided that I'm going to stick with my 100g and under per day.
Last night hubby wanted chilli, well, I just burst into tears..... I felt very sorry for myself... poor hubby felt awful. He had rice, I didn't - I did feel better later, and felt awful for making him feel awful. I must get used to eating a completely different diet. 
I feel a bit lost some days....  Hey ho, tomorrow is another day.


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## rebrascora (Apr 29, 2020)

Hi @Pina

So sorry that you are finding it a struggle. Going low carb takes time if you have been used to piling them onto your plate without thinking about them and there will be moments when it overwhelms you but there will also be days when it is much easier. Take your time to reduce them slowly and find low carb alternatives that you can eat instead, like cauliflower rice or cauliflower mash.
I remember I had a hissy fit last summer when my partner harvested the first roots of new potatoes from the garden and boiled up a huge pan full of them and my allowance was 3 piddly little marble sized ones that rolled around on my plate trying to avoid their butter bath. I have always loved new potatoes and whilst I didn't find it too hard to give up bread and pasta and rice (really not bothered about rice at all) potatoes have always been a favourite. I stormed out of the house in a total strop on the verge of tears because I was so frustrated and didn't even eat the 3 I had allocated myself!

The key to following a low carb way of eating is to find low carb foods which you really enjoy to replace those carbs and not restricting them, so that you might even feel a little naughty about indulging in them. Things like treating yourself to a chunk of your favourite cheese whenever you feel a bit deprived, or having coffee with double cream instead of milk.... or a square of dark chocolate with a spoonful of peanut butter or a pot of olives..... something rich and luxurious or satisfying always helps prevent me from feeling badly done to. My really guilty pleasure is a bag of pork scratchings. All of these things are fairly or very low carb. They are also high in fat and that fat helps you to feel satisfied, it also provides slow release energy and helps to slow the digestion of any carbs you do eat and it tastes good. These things might not do it for you but finding low carb treats that are to your taste is really important so that you can indulge in those moments when you start to feel deprived.


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## Drummer (Apr 30, 2020)

The amount of carbs to eat each day is the amount you can cope with and still have normal blood glucose numbers. That varies between individuals, which is why many use a meter to check their blood glucose after meals to see how the meal suits them. For the first few days after diagnosis I ate hardly any carbs at all, but settled on 50 gm a day after using a meter to get my after eating levels down to 8mmol/l. Once I saw that I stuck to the same meals and saw the numbers drift downwards week by week with no further changes. In 6 months I was no longer in the diabetic range. I only need to eat twice a day now, and have two normal meals, and coffee with cream.


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## grovesy (Apr 30, 2020)

Pina said:


> I joined a Diabetic Facebook group, where sometimes people ask about how many carbs to eat per day. Some say 120g daily, some say 100g, some say 20 - 30g daily. The last one annoyed me, how can you survive on 20 - 30g daily?
> I've decided that I'm going to stick with my 100g and under per day.
> Last night hubby wanted chilli, well, I just burst into tears..... I felt very sorry for myself... poor hubby felt awful. He had rice, I didn't - I did feel better later, and felt awful for making him feel awful. I must get used to eating a completely different diet.
> I feel a bit lost some days....  Hey ho, tomorrow is another day.


I have said for a long time you have to find what works for you and can maintain long term. I used to have a small portion of rice, when the rest of the family have chilli, but for a while I have been having the chilli without the rice.


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## Pina (Apr 30, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> Hi @Pina
> 
> So sorry that you are finding it a struggle. Going low carb takes time if you have been used to piling them onto your plate without thinking about them and there will be moments when it overwhelms you but there will also be days when it is much easier. Take your time to reduce them slowly and find low carb alternatives that you can eat instead, like cauliflower rice or cauliflower mash.
> I remember I had a hissy fit last summer when my partner harvested the first roots of new potatoes from the garden and boiled up a huge pan full of them and my allowance was 3 piddly little marble sized ones that rolled around on my plate trying to avoid their butter bath. I have always loved new potatoes and whilst I didn't find it too hard to give up bread and pasta and rice (really not bothered about rice at all) potatoes have always been a favourite. I stormed out of the house in a total strop on the verge of tears because I was so frustrated and didn't even eat the 3 I had allocated myself!
> ...


hahaha... thank you for cheering me up.... oh dear, I did and do love pasta, but haven't touched it in 6 weeks...it's killing me.  I do feel much better today thanks, and am back on it. xx


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## Pina (Apr 30, 2020)

grovesy said:


> I have said for a long time you have to find what works for you and can maintain long term. I used to have a small portion of rice, when the rest of the family have chilli, but for a while I have been having the chilli without the rice.


thank you, i'm feeling much better today, I just have to get my head round it. I'm going to find alternatives, I was just feeling very low and abandoned. xx


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## rebrascora (Apr 30, 2020)

@Pina So pleased you are feeling stronger and more in control today. It does get easier with time but it is also perfectly acceptable to fall off the wagon once in a while as long as you know how to climb back on and forgive yourself.


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## Pina (Apr 30, 2020)

thank you xx I'm just reading through the sheet the nurse printed out for me before I left, my HbA1c was 87, she said she wants it down to 50. I don't understand what that means, is 87 high? I've lost 1 stone since seeing her, I'm hoping that will help. With this lockdown goodness knows when I'll see her. I was to have my eyes tested at the hospital too, but that never happened.


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## grovesy (Apr 30, 2020)

Pina said:


> thank you xx I'm just reading through the sheet the nurse printed out for me before I left, my HbA1c was 87, she said she wants it down to 50. I don't understand what that means, is 87 high? I've lost 1 stone since seeing her, I'm hoping that will help. With this lockdown goodness knows when I'll see her. I was to have my eyes tested at the hospital too, but that never happened.


87 is high 48 is the point that Diabetes is diagnosed.  HBA1C is the measure of amount of glucose attached to red blood cells over the last 3 months.


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## Pina (Apr 30, 2020)

Thank you.


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## rebrascora (Apr 30, 2020)

@Pina 87 is pretty high. If it helps to put it into perspective, the threshold for a diabetes diagnosis is 48, so you are nearly double that. A normal reading is below 42 and people who get a readings in the 42-47 range are considered at risk of diabetes or "pre diabetic". Some of us made it into triple figures before we were diagnosed, so it could be worse but you would not want to go there. 

You have done incredibly well to lose so much weight. Congratulations on that. 
It is worrying not knowing how well you are doing and it can be really motivating to see positive results and for that reason many people self fund a Blood Glucose Meter, so that they can physically see how they are doing on a day by day, meal by meal basis and that really helps to keep you on the straight and narrow, but also enables you to tailor your food to your own body's response to carbohydrates, so that you might perhaps be able to have a spoon or two of rice with your chilli and not cause too much of a rise in your Blood Glucose levels. Or you might be able to have a small portion of pasta once a week. Testing your blood before and 2 hours after a meal will tell you whether you ate too many carbs in that meal. Some people need to keep their levels of carbs very low to stay in range but others can get away with quite a bit, so it can be very different between two people who both have diabetes. A meter will tell you what you can and can't get away with, so it is a really valuable tool in managing your diabetes and relatively inexpensive to purchase @approx. £15 for a basic one. If you want more info on that we are happy to help. It takes a lot of the guess work and uncertainty out of what your next HbA1c is likely to be.


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## Pina (Apr 30, 2020)

Thank you for that, I think I will just buy a blood glucose meter myself, and go from there.....  x


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## Pina (Apr 30, 2020)

Thank you for that info... x


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## trophywench (Apr 30, 2020)

Pina said:


> Thank you for that, I think I will just buy a blood glucose meter myself, and go from there.....  x



Music to our ears, @Pina !  Do you need any links to the cheapest, and the best way of using it, and how to achieve painless fingerpricks?


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## Drummer (Apr 30, 2020)

My Hba1c was 91 at diagnosis and 47 80 days later, then 41 at 6 months. 
I was eating no more than 50 gm of carbs a day, from low carb veges.


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## Pina (Apr 30, 2020)

no, thank you, I've just had a good look on amazon x


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## rebrascora (Apr 30, 2020)

@Pina before you make a purchase it is important to factor in the cost of testing strips of which you will get through an awful lot in the first few months. They become a much more significant financial factor than the meter itself, so it makes sense to purchase a meter which has the cheapest test strips because they are not universal. For that reason here on the forum we recommend the SD Gluco Navii or the Spirit Healthcare Tee2 as the test strips for these meters are £8 for a pot of 50. Most other meters have test strips which cost twice that and sometimes as much as 3x that price. Since you will get through numerous pots of test strips, it makes significant financial sense to go for one of these meters, unless money is of no object for you. 
I know you didn't want advice, but I am hoping I am saving you money by giving it anyway.


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## Pina (Apr 30, 2020)

Thank you, I will have a look x


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## All The Little Kitties (May 8, 2020)

Everything I eat seems to spike my sugar. I chose things that have a 0 or no higher than 1 in front of it per 100 grams. What am I doing wrong?


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## All The Little Kitties (May 8, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> @Pina before you make a purchase it is important to factor in the cost of testing strips of which you will get through an awful lot in the first few months. They become a much more significant financial factor than the meter itself, so it makes sense to purchase a meter which has the cheapest test strips because they are not universal. For that reason here on the forum we recommend the SD Gluco Navii or the Spirit Healthcare Tee2 as the test strips for these meters are £8 for a pot of 50. Most other meters have test strips which cost twice that and sometimes as much as 3x that price. Since you will get through numerous pots of test strips, it makes significant financial sense to go for one of these meters, unless money is of no object for you.
> I know you didn't want advice, but I am hoping I am saving you money by giving it anyway.





Pina said:


> Thank you, I will have a look x


Why are you buying these things, they are all free on the NHS.


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## silentsquirrel (May 8, 2020)

All The Little Kitties said:


> Why are you buying these things, they are all free on the NHS.


Sadly not.  Most CCGs advise that Type 2s do not need to test, unless on insulin or meds like Gliclazide that can cause hypos, so strips are not available on prescription to many T2s.  It is very unusual for T2s to be given them otherwise.


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## Pina (May 8, 2020)

All The Little Kitties said:


> Why are you buying these things, they are all free on the NHS.


Type 2 don't get blood sugar testing kits at our surgery. I don't think all surgeries give them away.


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## grovesy (May 8, 2020)

All The Little Kitties said:


> Why are you buying these things, they are all free on the NHS.


They are not free on the NHS even when I was on Gliclazide I only got 50 strips a month. 
Is I am no longer on Gliclazide, I have recently had the strips removed from my repeats.


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## silentsquirrel (May 8, 2020)

All The Little Kitties said:


> Everything I eat seems to spike my sugar. I chose things that have a 0 or no higher than 1 in front of it per 100 grams. What am I doing wrong?


So what are you eating now, if it is all <2% carbs?   How much of a spike?


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## All The Little Kitties (May 8, 2020)

silentsquirrel said:


> So what are you eating now, if it is all <2% carbs?   How much of a spike?


I had porridge and shot up by 6 points


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## All The Little Kitties (May 8, 2020)

Pina said:


> Type 2 don't get blood sugar testing kits at our surgery. I don't think all surgeries give them away.


Wow, I got everything. Needles, strips (sugars and ketones) duel monitor, sharps box. On insulin and metformin. Didn't realise it wasn't free for everyone, that's shocking.


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## silentsquirrel (May 8, 2020)

All The Little Kitties said:


> I had porridge and shot up by 6 points


Oats are about 60g of carb per 100g!!
Are you sure you are looking at the total carbs figure, usually on the label at the back of the packet?  I think you may just be looking at the sugars.


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## All The Little Kitties (May 8, 2020)

silentsquirrel said:


> Oats are about 60g of carb per 100g!!
> Are you sure you are looking at the total carbs figure, usually on the label at the back of the packet?  I think you may just be looking at the sugars.


That's all I've been told to look at is the sugars.


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## silentsquirrel (May 8, 2020)

All The Little Kitties said:


> That's all I've been told to look at is the sugars.


No - it is the total carbohydrate that you need to look at, "of which sugars" is not relevant.  Ignore traffic lights, they are useless for a diabetic.
Carbs are sugars and starches.  Starch turns to glucose, So that is why the porridge spikes you!


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## rebrascora (May 8, 2020)

@All The Little Kitties You have been misinformed or perhaps misunderstood..... Not surprising as the NHS advice for diabetics is notoriously poor.
As @silentsquirrel says it is the carbohydrate content you need to look at (usually in very small print on the back of the packet), not just sugars. The body breaks down all carbohydrates into glucose, so starchy food make from grains like porridge and bread and pasta and breakfast cereals and rice and pastry and potatoes will all spike your blood glucose as well as the sugar from sweet treats and also the sugar in fruit, so we need to be careful to reduce our consumption of all these high carb foods.

As regards testing kit, you were given those on prescription (ie free) because you were/are on insulin which can cause your BG to go dangerously low, so you need to be able to check that and treat it. Most Type 2 diabetics are not on such medication and therefore there is no risk of them going dangerously low. It would cost the NHS a fortune to provide everyone with diabetes that testing equipment.... and they just can't afford it and after this pandemic I think there will be a bigger shortage of funds.


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## All The Little Kitties (May 8, 2020)

silentsquirrel said:


> No - it is the total carbohydrate that you need to look at, "of which sugars" is not relevant.  Ignore traffic lights, they are useless for a diabetic.
> Carbs are sugars and starches.  Starch turns to glucose, So that is why the porridge spikes you!


Ok, what do you have for brekkie and other meals. Everything I've got is high in carbs.


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## rebrascora (May 8, 2020)

@All The Little Kitties 
Eggs are a good low carb option for breakfast. I have omelettes with a variety of fillings like mushrooms and onion and cheese served with a salad and cheese coleslaw *or* creamy full fat Greek natural Yoghurt with half a dozen berries like rasps, strawberries or blueberries and a tablespoon of mixed seeds like pumpkin and sunflower and chia and maybe some chopped nuts. Another option is a fried breakfast of bacon, eggs, sausages and mushrooms, but no bread/toast, hash browns or baked beans as they are all high in carbs.
Are you on insulin? If so then you would need to be careful about cutting carbs completely in case the insulin takes you too low.


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## silentsquirrel (May 8, 2020)

All The Little Kitties said:


> Ok, what do you have for brekkie and other meals. Everything I've got is high in carbs.


I do usually have porridge!  I have found that I can cope with a small portion of oats, 25 -30g, and always "proper" oats, never over-processed instant oats.  I stretch it with flaxseeds (ground in my blender) and chopped pecans, plus a very small portion of berries, usually frozen.  I slow the spike and make it more filling by adding a tablespoon of double cream.  My meter showed me 
that just oats and fruit led to too big a spike.

Ideally I would eat eggs in some way (no bread), but I rarely fancy them until later in the day.  Sometimes I have full fat, plain Greek style yogurt, adding berries, and either chopped nuts or ground almonds or a very, very small sprinkle of a lower carb granola eg Lizi's.

You have to find what works for you.  Test just before eating, then 2 hours after first bite, looking for a rise of 2 -3 if possible, no more.  If a certain meal spikes more than this when tested 2 or 3 times, either reduce the weight of carbs and try again, or try something different.

Good luck!


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## rebrascora (May 8, 2020)

The "Eat Natural" brand do a Low Carb granola which is significantly lower than Lizi's at just 34g carbs per 100g. I sometimes have 40g of that with the creamy Greek Yoghurt and berries but I have insulin to cover the carbs in that which works out about 20g carbs so I usually have 4 units of insulin with that, 2 for the food and 2 for Dawn Phenomenon.


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## All The Little Kitties (May 8, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> @All The Little Kitties
> Eggs are a good low carb option for breakfast. I have omelettes with a variety of fillings like mushrooms and onion and cheese served with a salad and cheese coleslaw *or* creamy full fat Greek natural Yoghurt with half a dozen berries like rasps, strawberries or blueberries and a tablespoon of mixed seeds like pumpkin and sunflower and chia and maybe some chopped nuts. Another option is a fried breakfast of bacon, eggs, sausages and mushrooms, but no bread/toast, hash browns or baked beans as they are all high in carbs.
> Are you on insulin? If so then you would need to be careful about cutting carbs completely in case the insulin takes you too low.


Can't have most of that as I don't eat animal products.


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## rebrascora (May 8, 2020)

I know someone uses Quinoa flakes for porridge instead of oats. They will still be quite carby but probably not as bad as oats. You would have to check nutritional info on packets. 
Unfortunately being vegetarian will make controlling your diabetes through diet more difficult as even lentils and pulses are quite high in carbs. 
Excuse me asking a personal question but do you need to lose much/any weight? Significant weight loss can be a route to pushing type 2 diabetes into remission if carb reduction is difficult, but losing weight when you are eating carbs can require more willpower in my opinion due to the effect carbs have on your BG levels... ie you feel hungry a couple of hours after eating them as your BG drops and therefore want to eat again.

You didn't say if you are on insulin or not?


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## silentsquirrel (May 8, 2020)

Vegan even more difficult than veggie, your choices for low carb are very restricted without all the dairy.
 I can't think of any vegans on the forum at the moment - used to be a couple, but neither have posted for some time.  There probably are some, but I am not aware of them.

@everydayupsanddowns might be some help, I think he sometimes eats vegan because of a vegan family member?


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## All The Little Kitties (May 8, 2020)

Yes, I was a carb queen before this happened. Was having porridge for brekkie, which I can't have now, salad for lunch and a bean salad for dinner. Which I'm ok with.
I'm on insulin and metformin.
Yes, I do need to lose weight and will power is not a problem for me, especially if I can reverse it. I do not intend to do this for the rest of my life.


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## rebrascora (May 8, 2020)

@All The Little Kitties
Which insulin(s) are you on and I am guessing you are on fixed doses, is that right? If so, you will need to eat a certain amount of carbs with each meal otherwise you are at risk of having hypos.

I don't mean to burst your bubble, but diabetes is a life long condition and it is extremely unlikely that you will be able to push it into remission if you are on insulin (being on insulin means that you are diabetic even if your HbA1c is below 48.... remission is only achieved when you have 2 consecutive normal range HbA1c readings without any medication I believe) and even if you do, you need to maintain fairly strict dietary control otherwise it comes back.
That is why it is important to find a way of eating that you enjoy and therefore can sustain long term, ie for the rest of your life. Losing weight can in itself help, but you need to maintain the weight loss which can be more difficult. I think many of us have experienced the yoyo effect of dieting and then putting it back on once you end the "diet"


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## All The Little Kitties (May 8, 2020)

Insulatard, 16 in the morning, 10 at night.
It won't be difficult to maintain weight loss if it means I don't have to inject myself. Not a problem.


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## rebrascora (May 8, 2020)

Ok, so you are just on a basal (background) insulin and don't inject anything for meals, so meals need to be kept quite low carb then to keep your BG from spiking too much which is going to be difficult for you especially when you are vegan.
Try a half portion of the porridge with some avocado/tofu or whatever vegan options there are for cream.... something high fat and maybe with some protein in it too.... and something that you like. Unfortunately I am not knowledgeable about vegan products to advise anything in particular.. 

It is a good idea to invest in some digital kitchen scales and weigh out your porridge oats and test before and after and then reduce the amount of grams the next day and test again to find the maximum amount you can get away with that doesn't spike your BG levels more than 3 units. Make sure to buy jumbo oats not cheap/instant more highly processed ones, as the jumbo ones should release their glucose slightly more slowly and therefore not spike your BG so high.


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## everydayupsanddowns (May 8, 2020)

Yes my youngest is Vegan so evening meals are either entirely or optionally vegan in our house.

However with insulin as a T1 I have lots more flexibility.

Im not sure if there are reasonable yoghurt alternatives? There are various egg replacements for omelette / scrambled egg - I’d have to check packets for carbs


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## All The Little Kitties (May 8, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> Ok, so you are just on a basal (background) insulin and don't inject anything for meals, so meals need to be kept quite low carb then to keep your BG from spiking too much which is going to be difficult for you especially when you are vegan.
> Try a half portion of the porridge with some avocado/tofu or whatever vegan options there are for cream.... something high fat and maybe with some protein in it too.... and something that you like. Unfortunately I am not knowledgeable about vegan products to advise anything in particular..
> 
> It is a good idea to invest in some digital kitchen scales and weigh out your porridge oats and test before and after and then reduce the amount of grams the next day and test again to find the maximum amount you can get away with that doesn't spike your BG levels more than 3 units. Make sure to buy jumbo oats not cheap/instant more highly processed ones, as the jumbo ones should release their glucose slightly more slowly and therefore not spike your BG so high.


I have soya cream which is very low in carbs, only buy the normal oats. A lot of my fake meat products are low in carbs but high in protein, so will get some more of those in. 
I have only heard from the diabetic team once, the morning after I left hospital. The one in the hospital was ok, but you can't really take it all in. I have to test 4 times a day, before meals and 2 hours after then 1 at night. But that's all I know. No info on food, that's why I'm asking all these questions. Thank goodness this site is here, and all of you are so helpful or I would be completely lost.


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## All The Little Kitties (May 8, 2020)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Yes my youngest is Vegan so evening meals are either entirely or optionally vegan in our house.
> 
> However with insulin as a T1 I have lots more flexibility.
> 
> Im not sure if there are reasonable yoghurt alternatives? There are various egg replacements for omelette / scrambled egg - I’d have to check packets for carbs


Yes, I have some egg replacer, forgot about that. Will take a look. Thank you.


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## Drummer (May 8, 2020)

I sometimes get Alpro soy yoghurt which is low fat, but I combine it with fatty foods.
The problem with a vegan diet is it isn't what we evolved to eat - despite what the vegan thread on Twitter maintains, the more vegetarian early Hominids all went extinct.
At least with the insulin you can eat more carbs and use that to deal with it but although the Twitter folk maintained that there are tens of thousands of people who were cured of their diabetes by eating wholefoods, I have yet to meet anyone free of medication and lots of exercise on a daily basis. I did ask for diet or recipe recomendations, but all sources seem high carb and low in nutrition. It really does give vegans a mountain to climb.


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## rebrascora (May 8, 2020)

All The Little Kitties said:


> I have soya cream which is very low in carbs, only buy the normal oats. A lot of my fake meat products are low in carbs but high in protein, so will get some more of those in.
> I have only heard from the diabetic team once, the morning after I left hospital. The one in the hospital was ok, but you can't really take it all in. I have to test 4 times a day, before meals and 2 hours after then 1 at night. But that's all I know. No info on food, that's why I'm asking all these questions. Thank goodness this site is here, and all of you are so helpful or I would be completely lost.



Are you sure your fake meats are low in carbs?.... I only ask because you were checking sugar content until now if your previous post was anything to go by in that you assumed porridge was low carb. Vegan meat is often significantly higher in carbs than proper meat which generally has none.

@Drummer The OP only has basal insulin so cannot really compensate for carbs in her food at the moment.... I think that might need to change in the near future and additional bolus insulin may be required.


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## Drummer (May 8, 2020)

Oh yes indeed - I just suspect that is the path she's on and will be directed that way by her support team in due course..


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## everydayupsanddowns (May 8, 2020)

All The Little Kitties said:


> Yes, I have some egg replacer, forgot about that. Will take a look. Thank you.



Ours (Terra Vegane) only gets used a tablespoon at a time to give the egg flavour in baking. I’d have to weigh 4tbs for the suggested carb load for an omelette, but it’s 60g/100g so may not help Im afraid


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## rebrascora (May 8, 2020)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Ours (Terra Vegane) only gets used a tablespoon at a time to give the egg flavour in baking. I’d have to weigh 4tbs for the suggested carb load for an omelette, but it’s 60g/100g so may not help Im afraid


Might as well just stick with porridge if the replacement egg is that carb heavy, since they have the same carb content.


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## silentsquirrel (May 8, 2020)

No personal experience but I have seen in another place talk of scrambling silken tofu, which seems to be very low carb.  Might be worth a try?


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## MissDaisy (Jun 21, 2020)

grovesy said:


> I would start at 100 and take it from there.



Hi everyone!

Newbie here - That’s roughly what other members have said to aim 30 per meal. There’s so much misinformation out there as on some sites it says 45-60 per meal! So glad I signed up yesterday as DR also said GI diet was best however you guys’ve say LCHF. This is what I am working towards 

Just of interest is there an easy math calculation to find out carb count? I noticed online 30g with 8g fibre works out as 26. So if high in fibre this reduces the carb count slightly or can this vary depending inner other ingredients? 

Many Thanks in advance MissDaisy


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## gil2625 (Jun 21, 2020)

BeOdd said:


> Being recently diagnosed with type 2 diabetes ... I would like to know how many carbs I should aim for daily


To all you folks worried about Carbs I whole heartedly endorse Nutracheck a site which is run by qualified nutritionists. It is accessible by App or obviously via computer there are several types of eating plans (I use low carb) but as long as I diary what goes in my mouth daily, all is good. Have been losing constantly over last 15 weeks now down by slightly over 2 stone and BG is looking good. I don't normally check but after a brief hospital stay last week and having finger pricked 3 times I am ecstatic. Also, worth noting I am on 1mg Semaglutide (Ozempic) which is helpful for the weight loss and diabetes (type 2).


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## MissDaisy (Jun 21, 2020)

gil2625 said:


> To all you folks worried about Carbs I whole heartedly endorse Nutracheck a site which is run by qualified nutritionists. It is accessible by App or obviously via computer there are several types of eating plans (I use low carb) but as long as I diary what goes in my mouth daily, all is good. Have been losing constantly over last 15 weeks now down by slightly over 2 stone and BG is looking good. I don't normally check but after a brief hospital stay last week and having finger pricked 3 times I am ecstatic. Also, worth noting I am on 1mg Semaglutide (Ozempic) which is helpful for the weight loss and diabetes (type 2).


Thanks I’ll check it out !


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## Robin (Jun 21, 2020)

MissDaisy said:


> Just of interest is there an easy math calculation to find out carb count? I noticed online 30g with 8g fibre works out as 26. So if high in fibre this reduces the carb count slightly or can this vary depending inner other ingredients?


You have to be aware of whether you’re looking at a Uk site or a US one. In the U.K., carbohydrate has the fibre already deducted from it, so the straight carb figure as listed is the one you need. On American sites, fibre is included in the carb count, so you have to deduct it to get the pure carbs. I’ve never come across a chart where half the fibre is deducted, as seems to be the case with the example you’ve given, that seems odd.


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## MissDaisy (Jun 21, 2020)

Robin said:


> You have to be aware of whether you’re looking at a Uk site or a US one. In the U.K., carbohydrate has the fibre already deducted from it, so the straight carb figure as listed is the one you need. On American sites, fibre is included in the carb count, so you have to deduct it to get the pure carbs. I’ve never come across a chart where half the fibre is deducted, as seems to be the case with the example you’ve given, that seems odd.


Hi and thanks for reply

In UK so that’s makes it easier 

MissDaisy


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## Robin (Jun 21, 2020)

MissDaisy said:


> Hi and thanks for reply
> 
> In UK so that’s makes it easier
> 
> MissDaisy


Yes, but even in the U.K. you have to be careful if you’re Googling stuff, that you haven't strayed on to an American site.


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## All The Little Kitties (Jun 21, 2020)

Drummer said:


> I sometimes get Alpro soy yoghurt which is low fat, but I combine it with fatty foods.
> The problem with a vegan diet is it isn't what we evolved to eat - despite what the vegan thread on Twitter maintains, the more vegetarian early Hominids all went extinct.
> At least with the insulin you can eat more carbs and use that to deal with it but although the Twitter folk maintained that there are tens of thousands of people who were cured of their diabetes by eating wholefoods, I have yet to meet anyone free of medication and lots of exercise on a daily basis. I did ask for diet or recipe recomendations, but all sources seem high carb and low in nutrition. It really does give vegans a mountain to climb.


Before this nightmare happened, I wasn't on any meds at all, didn't even get a headache.


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## All The Little Kitties (Jun 21, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> Are you sure your fake meats are low in carbs?.... I only ask because you were checking sugar content until now if your previous post was anything to go by in that you assumed porridge was low carb. Vegan meat is often significantly higher in carbs than proper meat which generally has none.
> 
> @Drummer The OP only has basal insulin so cannot really compensate for carbs in her food at the moment.... I think that might need to change in the near future and additional bolus insulin may be required.


Yes, most of my fake meats are low in carbs. 2 sausages are 1.5gm.


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## MissDaisy (Jun 21, 2020)

Robin said:


> Yes, but even in the U.K. you have to be careful if you’re Googling stuff, that you haven't strayed on to an American site.


Hi 

I will read the label & stay away from google then .... lol  

Thank again MissDaisy


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## All The Little Kitties (Jun 21, 2020)

silentsquirrel said:


> No personal experience but I have seen in another place talk of scrambling silken tofu, which seems to be very low carb.  Might be worth a try?


It's very nice, tried it for the first time last week.


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## Cool Cat (Jun 29, 2020)

*Ex*


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## All The Little Kitties (Jul 6, 2020)

grovesy said:


> They are not free on the NHS even when I was on Gliclazide I only got 50 strips a month.
> Is I am no longer on Gliclazide, I have recently had the strips removed from my repeats.


All medication for diabetics is free on the NHS. You are given an exemption from to sign at the surgery and from that day all your meds are free. If you are paying you are going to a private clinic.


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## silentsquirrel (Jul 6, 2020)

All The Little Kitties said:


> All medication for diabetics is free on the NHS. You are given an exemption from to sign at the surgery and from that day all your meds are free. If you are paying you are going to a private clinic.


If you can persuade a GP to prescribe testing strips they would be free - but the problem is that as a T2, unless you are on insulin or drugs such as gliclazide that can result in hypos, very few Gps will prescribe them.


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## All The Little Kitties (Jul 6, 2020)

silentsquirrel said:


> If you can persuade a GP to prescribe testing strips they would be free - but the problem is that as a T2, unless you are on insulin or drugs such as gliclazide that can result in hypos, very few Gps will prescribe them.


well then they are breaking the law. It even says it on this main site, https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/life-with-diabetes/free-prescriptions , if you have an exemption form, which all diabetics are given, we will get all our meds free.


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## rebrascora (Jul 6, 2020)

@All The Liittle Kitties 

I don't think you are understanding the situation... Yes prescriptions are exempt from charges for diabetics but that doesn't mean to say that your GP has to prescribe you whatever you think you should have. So if we were talking about insulin instead of test strips, then your GP will only prescribe you insulin if your Health Care Professionals feel it is necessary and beneficial
Most GPs do not feel that test strips for Type 2 diabetics are beneficial, so they will not prescribe them and NICE guidelines support that I believe, so no one is breaking the law in not prescribing test strips.


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## silentsquirrel (Jul 6, 2020)

All The Little Kitties said:


> well then they are breaking the law. It even says it on this main site, https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/life-with-diabetes/free-prescriptions , if you have an exemption form, which all diabetics are given, we will get all our meds free.


I think you may have missed the point of my reply.  You would *not* be charged for testing strips prescribed by the GP, but T2s not on insulin or gliclazide-type meds cannot usually get their GP to prescribe them.


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## grovesy (Jul 6, 2020)

All The Little Kitties said:


> All medication for diabetics is free on the NHS. You are given an exemption from to sign at the surgery and from that day all your meds are free. If you are paying you are going to a private clinic.


I was not paying for my prescriptions, just more test strips. As I am no longer on Gliclazide the strips have been removed from my repeats.The letter quoted the relevant guidance they were using to remove the strips.


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