# What's preventing us from curbing the obesity crisis?



## Amity Island (Jul 8, 2022)

In early June, 2022, when the SURMOUNT-1 trial reported over a 20% weight loss with tirzepatide an explosion of social media posts labelled the results as “unprecedented”, “phenomenal”, and “game-changing”. As obesity rates continue to rise worldwide and the burden of disease for individuals and health-care systems has now reached alarming levels, expanding the portfolio of drugs targeting obesity is essential.









						What's preventing us from curbing the obesity crisis?
					

In early June, 2022, when the SURMOUNT-1 trial reported over a 20% weight loss with tirzepatide an explosion of social media posts labelled the results as “unprecedented”, “phenomenal”, and “game-changing”. As obesity rates continue to rise worldwide and the burden of disease for individuals and...



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## Drummer (Jul 8, 2022)

Until the advice to eat healthy carbs is altered then obesity will not be beaten - HCPs know that anyone putting on weight on their healthy high carb intake is just doing it wrong - or they are a liar and gorging (they love that word) on the wrong foods, not trying hard enough - they are delusional and not complying with instructions they should be ashamed when everyone is trying to help and they are still committing the sin of not losing weight.

I've heard it all during the time I've been handed the diet sheets and told that the weight will fall off me on the same diet used to fatten up farmyard animals. It made no sense in the 1970s, and not become any more sensible since then,


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## nonethewiser (Jul 9, 2022)

Drummer said:


> Until the advice to eat healthy carbs is altered then obesity will not be beaten - HCPs know that anyone putting on weight on their healthy high carb intake is just doing it wrong - or they are a liar and gorging (they love that word) on the wrong foods, not trying hard enough - they are delusional and not complying with instructions they should be ashamed when everyone is trying to help and they are still committing the sin of not losing weight.
> 
> I've heard it all during the time I've been handed the diet sheets and told that the weight will fall off me on the same diet used to fatten up farmyard animals. It made no sense in the 1970s, and not become any more sensible since then,



What rubbish, you can lose weight eating healthy carbs, did so earlier in year & wife did 3 years ago losing 5 stone after period of ill health.

Simple answer is we eat to much & don't exercise enough, work has gone from mainly manual hard craft to office non manual type of jobs, before everyone had cars many would walk miles to work & walk right back after finishing a 10/12 hour shift, miners rail workers for example.

Of course some are predisposed to put on weight for genetic reasons.


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## Eddy Edson (Jul 9, 2022)

Drummer said:


> Until the advice to eat healthy carbs is altered then obesity will not be beaten - HCPs know that anyone putting on weight on their healthy high carb intake is just doing it wrong - or they are a liar and gorging (they love that word) on the wrong foods, not trying hard enough - they are delusional and not complying with instructions they should be ashamed when everyone is trying to help and they are still committing the sin of not losing weight.
> 
> I've heard it all during the time I've been handed the diet sheets and told that the weight will fall off me on the same diet used to fatten up farmyard animals. It made no sense in the 1970s, and not become any more sensible since then,


Nope.


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## Drummer (Jul 9, 2022)

It did not work for me. 
On the prescribed diets I ate fewer and fewer calories whilst trying to do my job in the pilot plant at Allied Lyons which involved moving sacks and tubs long hours of working the mixers and packing machines and I was white as a sheet most of the time, but would turn grey and need to sit down, my heart hammering and feeling faint and dizzy several times a week.
Obviously I was doing it wrong - just as the HCPs told me.


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## Benny G (Jul 9, 2022)

What's preventing us from curbing the obesity crisis?​
There is no 'us', it's not a joint effort.
I do mine, you do yours, and they do theirs.


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## Bruce Stephens (Jul 9, 2022)

Benny G said:


> There is no 'us', it's not a joint effort.


I think it is.

We gained weight collectively, after all. Not everyone, but large parts of some countries. I suggest that probably means if we wanted to reverse that then some kind of collective action would make sense. (I don't have good ideas on what action  would work, but telling individuals it's all their fault for not eating right seems not to work, so I think we should drop that one.)


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## Benny G (Jul 9, 2022)

*We gained weight collectively, after all.*

For the last two decades my Dr has been saying I'm too thin, and I don't mind, (that the Dr says I'm too thin.) I have been very slim all my life.
My brother in law is very fat, I have explained the situation to him, and long story short, he is as reluctant to lose weight as I am to gain. I guess as individuals, we make our own choices.

Collective action, in the UK, really?
Many very large question marks.


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## Bruce Stephens (Jul 9, 2022)

Benny G said:


> I guess as individuals, we make our own choices.


I'm sure that's sometimes true. But as a society we've become fatter. Have more people just freely chosen to do that? Seem to me that it's sensible to at least look for some environmental factors and (once we've found them) consider how to change them.


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## Eddy Edson (Jul 9, 2022)

Bruce Stephens said:


> I'm sure that's sometimes true. But as a society we've become fatter. Have more people just freely chosen to do that? Seem to me that it's sensible to at least look for some environmental factors and (once we've found them) consider how to change them.


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## Benny G (Jul 9, 2022)

*Have more people just freely chosen to do that?*

You have hit the nail on the head.


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## Eddy Edson (Jul 9, 2022)

Bruce Stephens said:


> I'm sure that's sometimes true. But as a society we've become fatter. Have more people just freely chosen to do that? Seem to me that it's sensible to at least look for some environmental factors and (once we've found them) consider how to change them.


One problem: it's fairly likely that the big reason is simply that food is a lot cheaper, tastier & more convenient than it used to be.

There's no way that you can dial any of those things back, politically.

Maybe the only realistic "environmental" hope is that there are some definable elements in food processing you can change to reduce over-eating while retaining the cheap/tasty/convenient/safe characteristics.  Deidre Tobias and Kevin Hall have a recent paper looking at the possibilities - all very conjectural at the moment and def not just a matter of reducing salt, added sugar, fat etc.

There's also recent studies showing positive impact from high taxes on SSB & fwiw I would guess that will be a thing, increasingly.

Mainly though I think it's going to be meds.


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## Bruce Stephens (Jul 9, 2022)

Eddy Edson said:


> There's no way that you can dial any of those things back, politically.


I'd hope that taxing some kinds of foods and (somehow) reducing the costs of others might help. But there's little point in reducing the cost of raw ingredients if few people have the time to prepare and cook (or, right now, can afford the energy costs to cook).

It does feel like there's been a societal change: now that it's usual for all the adults in a family to work full time, that doesn't leave anyone to prepare the evening meal. Now that buses are so expensive (and so infrequent) most people have to drive to work, meaning most people drive to the supermarket to get food so there aren't any local shops that people might walk to (so there's less exercise).

As you say, there's no hope of reversing that kind of change even if politicians wanted to.


Eddy Edson said:


> Mainly though I think it's going to be meds.


Which I find rather depressing but you're probably right.

I do wish politicians here would at least try some more radical options. They've tried (repeatedly) to improve food in schools, prisons, hospitals. As far as I'm aware all those have eventually faltered. So how about really making one or more of those a priority and doing it properly (which will cost real money)?

There's been lots of warnings about food deserts: places where people (usually poorer people) can't conveniently buy fresh ingredients. What I don't remember seeing is any real attempt at addressing the problem.


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## Windy (Jul 9, 2022)

Bruce Stephens said:


> Now that buses are so expensive (and so infrequent) most people have to drive to work, meaning most people drive to the supermarket to get food so there aren't any local shops that people might walk to (so there's less exercise).


The government could address the driving to work, or travelling to school by building better, safe cycling infrastructure, like they do in the Netherlands. It's normal there for kids to cycle to school on dedicated, car free cycle tracks, and for everyone to cycle for shorter journeys, including older people, or disabled people using handbikes, because it's safe to do so. 
Compare this to the UK, where it would feel somewhat unsafe for a child to cycle to school due to the number of cars on the road (at least in the city I live in). I'm a slow and plodding cyclist and don't feel safe when I go out on my bike as the cars whizz past my elbow and wish we had even a fraction of the safe cycling infrastructure that the Netherlands do.

The list of countries by obesity rates has the UK at number 36 most obese, whilst the Netherlands is 99 (the US is number 12). I realise that more cycling doesn't mean that people wouldn't be  obese, but if we made it a bit easier to transport ourselves places on a push bike, we'd be burning energy doing it, rather than pushing the pedals in a car. And it's cheap to buy and run a bike, and you can put panniers on it to put your shopping in, so if the supermarket or shops are a bit further away, you can cycle there.
Sarah (frustrated cyclist!)


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## rebrascora (Jul 9, 2022)

There are two key economic players which stand to benefit from the status quo and they have a lot of clout. The food industry which makes huge profits from cheap carb rich, often addictive foods and the pharmaceutical companies that make money from the drugs to try to fix us. Also, sadly many people don't want to change their diet and even if they do, there are lots of issues which make that difficult, including the advice they are given and food advertising is an absolutely massive issue which I was blind to until I tried to change my diet and resist it. I had about 2 months of hell being tortured by adverts that I wasn't even aware of before and apart from eating too many sweets, my diet wasn't even that bad. Even bill boards that I hadn't noticed before were suddenly in my face tempting me, as well as the huge number of food outlets, particularly at shopping centres. Those things that would have been a once a year treat in my childhood are now everyday options for many people. It seems terrible to say it but maybe an economic down turn could be beneficial if the government incentivized the healthy wholefoods. My parents had very little disposable income, so my Dad grew a lot of our food and we learned to help. Allotments were made available to people during the war to Dig for Victory.... There are huge waiting lists to get an allotment these days.... literally it's like "dead mens shoes" getting one. There are public spaces which could be turned over to allotments and community schemes. Maybe even parks where people could get exercise by digging and producing food rather than drinking coffee and eating cake/cookies and walking their dogs. Not saying all parks should be dug up but a section of each could be donated for community food production in the inner cities. I can think of several sites in my local community which could be utilized. I know some schools do gardening but again, there is plenty of scope for increasing the scale and that would reeducate children about where their food comes from.

There is a big disconnect in the way we currently view our food and that is certainly part of the problem.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the situation.


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## Amity Island (Jul 9, 2022)

What's preventing us from curbing the obesity crisis?

Probably the eat at home, shop at home, work from home, watch movies at home, everything including prescriptions delivered to your home, communicate with friends and family at home, see the world at home via google maps. Last big leap will be education/schooling at home.

There's almost no need to get off our chairs, not even to change the channel on your tv. Even making our own food has become effortless with, food mixers, bread makers, washing machines, dish washers.

It's not that unusual to see people employ gardeners, cleaners etc to do the work they used to do.

Is it any wonder so many of us are overweight. Equally, computers have done nothing but increase the workload, increase the pace of life.

I'd prefer a slower, more physical lifestyle instead of being bombarded with emails, media and advertising.


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## JJay (Jul 10, 2022)

What's preventing us from curbing the obesity crisis?

The food industry, that's what. The messages are all wrong - oh, yes, they're all about "healthy" (ie we've reduced the fat, 'cos that doesn't cost us much) but more than balanced by "treat yourself", "indulgence", "go on, you deserve it". A Krispy Kreme cabinet in Tesco here, Afternoon Teas there (everywhere!), food you didn't know you needed (you didn't). Farmers who care about what they produce screwed on price by the big players. No respect for quality, only cheapness (or "value" as the supermarkets like to persuade you). Add to that a government that pays lip service to improving the nation's health while keeping its major donors onside, and you have the perfect recipe for an overwhelmed NHS (problem "solved" by privatisation), shortened lives (fewer pensions to pay), and a nation kept in blissful ignorance of its manipulation by a diet of short-term satisfaction while the skulduggery continues and the food industry's profits increase.


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## Gwynn (Jul 10, 2022)

I hope I don't offend anyone....just some random thoughts...

As the old saying goes....' I wouldn't start from 'ere '. 

First you have to fix the supply of poorer foods and second you have to fix the people problem.

The first is tough to solve as everyone is in everyone elses pockets and the farming and manufacture of foods has been completely revolutionised.

The second is tough because life is hard enough without having to think about and execute a good healthy life style (including meals).

I am a guily as anyone. Eating all the 'wrong' things for years without a thought about the effects. When I felt hungry I just ate. Didn't analyse it or politicise it, or fret over it. I just ate. And. Probably ate too much. There was no strategy, no feedback, no consequence.... except that there was.... a creeping consequence that eventually pounced and I ended up in hospital

I 'woke' up, realised things were not right and had to fight to discover what I should always have known about food. It wasn't easy because the food message out there is very very confused and in many places misleading.

So now I analyse as much as I can.

Maybe a better approach in education could help but I fear that once the easy, cheap, poor food 'cat is out of the bag' .... and would I have listened anyway?

A question I often ask is 'do overweight people feel bad or worried about being overweight'. I certainly didn't bar the occasional miffed feeling whilst stuffing another bag of crisps down my throat. And why should they feel bad anyway?

It would take a u-turn of an entire industry, entire population, entire political empire to turn things around.... far easier to blame the 'fatties' for screwing up their own lives. After all what we have is a better, wider choice of .....

It is quite scary and alas there seems to be no easy or even 'possible' fix.

But the NHS has medicines and special operations to help those in desperate need regarding over eating. 

So fixing the problem has shifted away from not creating the problem in the first place to 'medicating' the problem as a last resort instead.


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## Leadinglights (Jul 10, 2022)

We have very rarely recently gone into our local town but last time we did it was very noticeable the sheer number of cafes, restaurants and takeaways that were everywhere and virtually nothing else. 
My neighbour has takeaway delivered at least once a day if not twice some days. 
A constant stream of leaflets through the door for takeaway. 
Pubs, food options always seem to have chips with everything. 
And we wonder why there is a problem.

On the opposite side
The Uni I worked at had a community veg garden in the middle of the campus (city centre) and people were encouraged to go and pick whatever they wanted, Brilliant Idea.


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## Windy (Jul 10, 2022)

Leadinglights said:


> We have very rarely recently gone into our local town but last time we did it was very noticeable the sheer number of cafes, restaurants and takeaways that were everywhere and virtually nothing else.


And Kentucky/southern fried chicken shops. If I walk past one after the schools have kicked out, they're full of teenagers eating fried chicken and chips, I worry for their future health.


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## Drummer (Jul 10, 2022)

But 'everyone' knows that it is sugar which is the problem - so eat all the starch you want.
I have argued that I can't cope with carbs for half a century, but I am still told that I need to up the 'healthy' carbs and it will be rosebuds and bluebirds all the way.


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## Inka (Jul 10, 2022)

*It does feel like there's been a societal change: now that it's usual for all the adults in a family to work full time, that doesn't leave anyone to prepare the evening meal. Now that buses are so expensive (and so infrequent) most people have to drive to work, meaning most people drive to the supermarket to get food so there aren't any local shops that people might walk to (so there's less exercise).*

I very much agree @Bruce Stephens I think the societal changes play a bigger part than realised. Years ago, there were many more local shops, even in towns eg when I was a young child we had a shop on our estate. Many people popped to it to pick up fresh food for lunch and evening meal. It even had a little deli counter. You hardly ever see shops like that now. Even larger villages have lost their shops too. The lack of time due to fulltime working; the need to visit a supermarket with its middle aisles of processed foods so tempting when people are tired, hungry and pressed for time; the need to buy more non-perishable foods because you only go to the supermarket once a week or fortnight and there’s no local shop close to get fresh foods; the poor and expensive public transport; the new houses with their tiny gardens too small for outdoor games - so many things!

I think we exercise less, eat more processed foods, sleep less, stress more. It all has an effect.


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## trophywench (Jul 10, 2022)

Can we add to that, the fact that DS isn't taught in ALL secondary schools these days.  Didn't matter in my youth whether you went to the Grammar or the Secondary Modern - ie either more intelligent or less - all the girls were taught it - one of my sisters 5 O levels was in DS.  I dropped it.  (The DS teacher wasn't at all impressed for me swapping the '3oz mild cheese' for 6 oz mature cheddar to go with the 2lbs potatoes so my family would find her cheese onion and potato pie edible, rather than binning it.  Neither husband nor anyone else I've fed, has ever starved)


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## Drummer (Jul 10, 2022)

As you mention husbands - I think it might be something to do with his diet, but although he's a vintage model from1955 mine is still going very well indeed wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more.....


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## Nayshiftin (Jul 10, 2022)

nonethewiser said:


> What rubbish, you can lose weight eating healthy carbs, did so earlier in year & wife did 3 years ago losing 5 stone after period of ill health.
> 
> Simple answer is we eat to much & don't exercise enough, work has gone from mainly manual hard craft to office non manual type of jobs, before everyone had cars many would walk miles to work & walk right back after finishing a 10/12 hour shift, miners rail workers for example.
> 
> Of course some are predisposed to put on weight for genetic reasons.


Of course some are predisposed to put on weight for genetic reasons . I love that disclaimer . Babies are All not. Different sizes. One food is good for one not for another. I’m so fed up of you have type 2 due to weight well why are some of you type 2 and thin ? Are you goody two shoes ? I’ll die fat but I’m so fed up of people having a go . Gorging lol my stomach is grumbling here


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## Vonny (Jul 10, 2022)

I recently went for a walk around the part of village where I used to live in the 60s and 70s. There used to be a paper shop selling sweets which we usually had to save up for, and where mum would send me to get her 10 embassy tipped! There was also a small general store, a greengrocers, a butchers, an off licence and a chippy.  We would sometimes have fish and chips for tea on a Friday but otherwise it was all fresh, local stuff which my mum dutifully cooked and the portions were so much smaller than today.
Now? All premises are converted to houses. The only remaining shop front is where the chippy was and it is now a chinese takeaway. But there is now a massive retail development not far away. Too far for most people to walk to but a handy 7 minutes in the car. And yes, the people in the village are definitely bigger than they used to be!


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