# Time spent frail in old age 'doubles'



## Northerner (Aug 16, 2017)

The amount of time spent needing daily care at the end of life has doubled in England over the past two decades, a study suggests.

The Newcastle University study found men spent 2.4 years on average needing regular care and women three years.

This includes everything from help with washing and dressing each day to round-the-clock care.

Researchers said it suggested there needed to be a sharp increase in the number of care home places to cope.

It comes as ministers consider a new way to fund the system.

The government has promised major reform amid reports that councils are struggling to provide enough support to cope with the ageing population.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-40942531


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## mikeyB (Aug 16, 2017)

Why can't families look after their own? This is one of the few countries in the world where state care is the norm. 

Just a thought.


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## AJLang (Aug 16, 2017)

Sorry I probably at too sensitive a point in my life to respond to this but I just wanted to say that it isn't always possible for families to look after their parents. I can't with my mum for a wide range of personal reasons that I don't want to disclose here, but I just want to say that it isn't always possible even if you want to.


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## Lucy Honeychurch (Aug 16, 2017)

I used to be a home carer and many of my clients didn't have any family living near them, didn't have any family at all or had such complex conditions, disabilities and medication regimes that their families couldn't cope with caring for them without outside help.
I've also worked in a nursing home and people with advanced dementia or Alzheimer's often need to be in a care home to keep them safe, lots of stories of them setting fire to things, leaving gas on, putting clothes in the oven instead of the washing machine or wandering off, getting lost and the police involved.


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## Amigo (Aug 16, 2017)

mikeyB said:


> Why can't families look after their own? This is one of the few countries in the world where state care is the norm.
> 
> Just a thought.



Because life isn't like the Waltons any more Mike. My mum wouldn't ever want me to care for her 24/7 and it nearly tipped me over the edge when I tried. Quality time disappears when you've everything to do for someone who may have dementia, not sleep and be constantly at risk. Sometimes older people need skilled care including nursing care which isn't possible to provide at home. Modern houses and busy lifestyles trying to work to pay the mortgage means most women (and it usually falls to women), have to work. Most can't give up paid work to rely on the meagre £61 @ week Carer's Allowance. The hundreds of thousands of carers who do provide care to their aged parents in this country is often unseen but can involve sacrifice and heartache that isn't always acknowledged. I cared for my mother whilst being immune compromised and ended up in hospital myself with acquired infections. 

I'd like to see more social care with housing complexes instead of the notion of residential and nursing establishments. It means people keep their independence, can socialise but also receive oversight and care services. This country is far too geared up to providing institutional care than responsive care with independence and dignity.


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## mikeyB (Aug 16, 2017)

I'm not so naive as to think we should be like the Waltons, I was only wondering why in other countries this isn't a problem. I know the rationale in this country. My dad had dementia.


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## Amigo (Aug 16, 2017)

mikeyB said:


> I'm not so naive as to think we should be like the Waltons, I was only wondering why in other countries this isn't a problem. I know the rationale in this country. My dad had dementia.



It's too easy to hurt with comments like 'why can't families look after their own' Mike. There's already enough guilt around for so many and whilst it's true that there's different cultural expectations elsewhere in the world, I worked with and experienced some very worn down Asian young women expected to take on total caring roles and have very little quality of life. I was a Carer Services Manager for the Local Authority at one time and the pain and guilt associated with caring for highly dependent (and not always pleasant relatives) can be brutal.  
I'd never expect any child of mine to give more than supportive love and oversight but never full time care. Would you in all honesty?


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## mikeyB (Aug 16, 2017)

I've no idea, to be honest, I'm an orphan. I've no intention of being a burden on my daughter, though.


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## Ditto (Aug 16, 2017)

I look after Mum. People looking after other people don't have a life, they give up their life and have the life of the person they are looking after. I don't bother having my own purse or bag now, what's the point? Can't carry both around. Same with most things really, we've pooled everything...joint Christmas cards everything. Plus she has to put up with my hamsters and the mouse in the kitchen, sounding like a manic washing machine in his wheel.  Poor Mum, what she has come to!


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## Hazel (Aug 17, 2017)

Having been carer to my Dad for the last 5 years of his life, I feel well qualified to answer this.

I had to give up work, basically put my life on hold, especially his last 2-3 years - it almost killed me.

As an only child, I had no support network.   I found it physically and emotionally draining.
I loved my father very much, I loved spending those years with him - but I had had enough by the time he died - the last 2 years spending time battling with the medics, social services, Dad himself, as his health deteriorated, it was a daily challange.

I could not have have managed - if I had a family of my own as well.

At 63, I have no family, so I am working on getting myself as healthy as possible, as I do not want to be 'cared' for by social services.

It is a complex situation with no easy answers.


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## mikeyB (Aug 17, 2017)

Not an uncommon story, that, Hazel, and we know the effect it had on you, from which you are only now recovering. 

Mind, if you had your time over, would you do any different?


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## Hazel (Aug 17, 2017)

As I said no I would not, but I came to the point it was either him or me to die


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## Amigo (Aug 17, 2017)

Hazel said:


> As I said no I would not, but I came to the point it was either him or me to die



That sad to hear Hazel and as with many of us, caring takes its toll in many ways no matter how much we love the person/s we are caring for. But it certainly answers the question as to why individuals and families cannot and shouldn't always look after their own. Sometimes guilt, love and conscience is a powerful master!


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## Maz2 (Aug 17, 2017)

My friend looked after her parents for a few years and was given no money from the government apart from carers allowance.  Thankfully she had Denis so did not end up destitute.  It has certainly taken a toll on her health as she now suffers from anxiety problems and one health problem after another.

My father had vascular dementia and I was working full-time.  I could not give up work as there is no income forthcoming from Government.  My Mom coped as best she could and I did my best but after two years doctors said it was impossible and he was taken to our local elderly care unit where he died a couple of months later.

My husband's Dad does not have dementia but does have memory problems and can't be bothered to do anything.  He pays for people to go in and help out.  My husband has to work full-time at present and Dad lives a four hour round trip away so impossible.


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## Maz2 (Aug 17, 2017)

Lucy Honeychurch said:


> I used to be a home carer and many of my clients didn't have any family living near them, didn't have any family at all or had such complex conditions, disabilities and medication regimes that their families couldn't cope with caring for them without outside help.
> I've also worked in a nursing home and people with advanced dementia or Alzheimer's often need to be in a care home to keep them safe, lots of stories of them setting fire to things, leaving gas on, putting clothes in the oven instead of the washing machine or wandering off, getting lost and the police involved.


Lucy - the above is next to impossible for family members to deal with.  My Dad had vascular dementia and used to lock my Mom out of the house and would just wander off unexpectedly.


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## Maz2 (Aug 17, 2017)

Amigo said:


> Because life isn't like the Waltons any more Mike. My mum wouldn't ever want me to care for her 24/7 and it nearly tipped me over the edge when I tried. Quality time disappears when you've everything to do for someone who may have dementia, not sleep and be constantly at risk. Sometimes older people need skilled care including nursing care which isn't possible to provide at home. Modern houses and busy lifestyles trying to work to pay the mortgage means most women (and it usually falls to women), have to work. Most can't give up paid work to rely on the meagre £61 @ week Carer's Allowance. The hundreds of thousands of carers who do provide care to their aged parents in this country is often unseen but can involve sacrifice and heartache that isn't always acknowledged. I cared for my mother whilst being immune compromised and ended up in hospital myself with acquired infections.
> 
> I'd like to see more social care with housing complexes instead of the notion of residential and nursing establishments. It means people keep their independence, can socialise but also receive oversight and care services. This country is far too geared up to providing institutional care than responsive care with independence and dignity.


Above is a very good idea Amigo.  I forgot the bit about not sleeping when my Dad was ill.  I was working full-time so Mom carried the brunt of it but it is impossible to deal with when you are working as having no sleep and then going to work all day is a non starter.


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## Maz2 (Aug 17, 2017)

mikeyB said:


> I'm not so naive as to think we should be like the Waltons, I was only wondering why in other countries this isn't a problem. I know the rationale in this country. My dad had dementia.


It may be Mikey but we just don't hear about it.  I know when I was last in France visiting friends they told me that in France now people are having to sell their houses to pay for care which seems to imply that people are going into care.  I know the younger members all work full-time and have responsibility for children of their own so would be next to impossible for them.


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## Amigo (Aug 17, 2017)

It's much easier to care for elderly people at home with large extended families and close communities as found in other countries and cultures. Just doesn't exist in the same way now and many adult kids don't even live close to parents.


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## AJLang (Aug 17, 2017)

It also isn't necessarily the children who have made the decision to move away from their parents.  My mum and dad moved away 16 years ago to a place that is a six hour round trip from here by car - much longer by public transport.  I don't drive, there is nowhere for me to stay at their house and we've already spent a fortune on hotels (I mean Premier Inn level) - add to that I'm reliant on OH for the trips as I can't drive and can't travel far on my own.


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## mikeyB (Aug 17, 2017)

There is also the almost unmentionable situation where you don't like your parents very much, and wouldn't do any more than nod to them on the street given a choice.


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## Carolg (Aug 17, 2017)

My mum became increasingly unwell, and she always said she didn't want to be cared for by any of us as two women in a house did not work and not fair to grandchildren. She was lucky and got her own way, but it didn't stop me in the interim short period of her final days, trying to work out how I could care for her at home. My heart goes out for people who are facing the loss of parents and the pressures and strains that have to be faced. As the population gets older, so do the Carers, and the government should be looking at the impact of caring on people, and whatever choices we make should not have to be defended. I know people who may have care/support backgrounds but couldn't "do" for their parents. Sorry this did not mean to be a rant


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## Hazel (Aug 17, 2017)

Amigo said:


> That sad to hear Hazel and as with many of us, caring takes its toll in many ways no matter how much we love the person/s we are caring for. But it certainly answers the question as to why individuals and families cannot and shouldn't always look after their own. Sometimes guilt, love and conscience is a powerful master!



Thank you #Amigo

At the beginning, just after his stroke, it was more company,  then his health worsened, eitj heart issues, a bleed on the brain,  a pulminary embolism, God only knows how many chest infections and urine infections,  falls almost every day - not to mention the hundreds of GP, nurse, physio, hospital appts.
Latterly trying to get him dressed and out of the house was a nightmare.    As I said, both physically and emotionally draining.

Would I have changed anything - no.
But as an only child I had no support network.  Who looked after me.

It is passed now and I am feeling heaps better, if a tad lonely at times, I miss him


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## Amigo (Aug 17, 2017)

Hazel said:


> Thank you #Amigo
> 
> At the beginning, just after his stroke, it was more company,  then his health worsened, eitj heart issues, a bleed on the brain,  a pulminary embolism, God only knows how many chest infections and urine infections,  falls almost every day - not to mention the hundreds of GP, nurse, physio, hospital appts.
> Latterly trying to get him dressed and out of the house was a nightmare.    As I said, both physically and emotionally draining.
> ...



Caring can be very isolating Hazel and it's all too easy to lose our own identity when we are in the exhausting midst of it. I'm glad you're feeling better now and hope there's good times ahead for you. I was still trying to care for my mother when I had pneumonia and also have my son to care for 24/7. It's so much easier with bigger families who can share the load and support but so often it falls to one person in my experience.

We always miss the loved person but it's entirely natural not to miss the burden of their unfortunate ill-health.

The truth is that formal care support services can be woefully inadequate and pile more pressure on. In terms of the original subject matter of this thread, it's clearly one of the biggest challenges facing any Government but the human cost can be overlooked.


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## Carolg (Aug 17, 2017)

Hazel said:


> #Carolg - I am up for that - sounds like a great idea.
> 
> Any time you fancy


This will look odd to others cause I deleted the post. For others, it was saying about another Scottish meet up


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## Carolg (Aug 17, 2017)

We can look for a date. Northerner, is this not going against forum principles etc?


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## Amigo (Aug 17, 2017)

Carolg said:


> We can look for a date. Northerner, is this not going against forum principles etc?



I can't see northerner or DUK having any problems about people meeting up Carol. I would think it is positively encouraged!  Wish I lived closer.


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## Hazel (Aug 17, 2017)

#Amigo will you manage along to Birmingham


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## Northerner (Aug 17, 2017)

Carolg said:


> We can look for a date. Northerner, is this not going against forum principles etc?


Certainly not @Carolg, as @Amigo says we positively encourage it!  The more people get to meet in 'real life', the better


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## Amigo (Aug 17, 2017)

Hazel said:


> #Amigo will you manage along to Birmingham



Afraid not Hazel, it coincides with a holiday.


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## mikeyB (Aug 17, 2017)

Well, I'm up for it if it's in Glasgow. Not on a big match day...


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## Carolg (Aug 17, 2017)

Amigo said:


> I can't see northerner or DUK having any problems about people meeting up Carol. I would think it is positively encouraged!  Wish I lived closer.


Yes, it's so expensive to travel. Would like to meet you


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