# School unco-operative



## jecra

My 12 year old daughter was diagnosed type 1 approx. three weeks ago. She's come to terms with it very well but we are having problems with her school. The school were helpful until I mentioned that she wasn't injecting her insulin herself. 

It was mentioned to me several times over phone conversations that in a similar situation previously the parent had come in and did the injections until their child felt capable. However I never said that I would be able to do this.

The diabetes nurses went to the school twice to educate staff about diabetes and go over the IHCP and on the second visit two members of staff were trained to give insulin and signed as competent. I was told on two occasions that the headteacher was ok for staff to give insulin in a emergency.

I then had a meeting with the head of year, attendance officer, school first aider, the health and safety policy person and a diabetes nurse to finalise the IHCP and organise getting my daughter back to school. The first aider was unwilling to train to give insulin which was quite surprising and then it was said that two members of staff would be able to in an emergency if for whatever reason I couldn't get to school to administer it.

I then informed them that this wasn't an option as I wouldn't be able to do this on a regular basis. The meeting progressed with suggestions for other members of staff who might be willing, it emerged that there were several volunteers for training but the headteacher had made it clear to the head of year that it was only those two already trained and only in emergencies.

So the IHCP was signed by myself and diabetes nurse but the headteacher was unavailable so they would discuss it with him later to sign off. It was arranged that my daughter would go to school yesterday and today with me going at lunchtime to administer the insulin while being watched by the trained member of staff and today I would supervise them doing it.

However I was asked to attend a meeting with the deputy head and head of year today and was informed that the headteacher had said that the staff would not be able to administer insulin as none of them felt competent to do so and they could not force staff to so, it had to be voluntary. 

Therefore the school has said that she will have to learn from home until she can competently do the injections herself, unless there are any days I am able to come to the school at lunchtime and then by all means I should bring her in.

Its obvious that the headteacher does not want the responsibility for the administering of insulin as apparently several people volunteered to be trained but only two actually were. They were signed off as competent and willing but now apparently are not. There is even a type 1 teacher on staff who is happy to chat to my daughter but apparently not willing to give injections.

Sorry for the long waffle, but I am now in the process of putting a complaint in to the board of governors and was wondering if anyone else had any similar experiences. Is my best argument discrimination under the equalities act or the Children and Families Act 2014.

I want to make sure I use the relevant legal requirements and statutory duties.

My daughter is nearly at the point of self injecting so will hopefully be returning to school soon, but it could have been much sooner and I feel that this response from the school is completely unacceptable.


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## trophywench

Are they complying with the new legal agreement made for all disabled kids and their schools ? (details on Diabetes UK website)

It only came in in September and I don't have details so dunno what's what with it.


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## Copepod

Welcome to the forum, jecru. I also suggest finding the school documents on www.diabetes.org.uk If no-one else has posted exact URL by tomorrow, when I can use laptop, I'll find it for you.


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## Sally71

Your school is out of date.  It used to be so that it was all voluntary and you couldn't force anyone to give injections or other medication if they weren't comfortable doing so.  However since September this year the school are now legally obliged to train someone up to do whatever is necessary for your child.  I think that must be the Children and Families Act that you are referring to.  I tried to Google it for you but it looks all rather complicated and I don't have much time now, sorry! Hopefully someone can find it for you soon!


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## Copepod

Assuming you're in England, then this page might help: http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Get_invo...e-grade/make-the-grade-schools-flyer-england/


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## Redkite

Hi jecra,

This is totally unacceptable and contravenes the new statutory guidance which came into force in September 2014 in addition to the Equality act 2010.  If you are on Facebook you should join the group "T1 children - Rights at school" which has excellent resources and advice.  There is also the newly launched Diabetes UK Care In School Helpline:
http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Guide-to-diabetes/Schools/Care-in-School-Helpline/

Sounds like the Head is being obstructive, when she has a duty to provide the care you daughter needs.  She can't force a member of staff to do injections, but if nobody volunteers, she has to employ someone.  Good luck!


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## HOBIE

Teachers are TEACHERS not Nurses !  Get her insulin changed to 1or2 injections a day. Like it used to be.  Some nurses can be dizzy never mind teachers who have 30 kids off on one !   Good luck


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## Sally71

HOBIE said:


> Teachers are TEACHERS not Nurses !  Get her insulin changed to 1or2 injections a day. Like it used to be.  Some nurses can be dizzy never mind teachers who have 30 kids off on one !   Good luck



Erm... Sorry Hobie, but why should this child have to put up with substandard treatment just to suit the school?  MDI is way better than mixed insulins, it allows so much more flexibility.  You wouldn't give up your pump and go a step or two backwards in your treatment regime, so why should anyone else?

I don't know if you have children but would you want them to have to suffer in this way?  I'm not a nurse either and don't particularly want to have to deal with it, but my daughter isn't old enough to take control of it herself yet, so until she is I have no choice but to do it for her.  Who will do it if I don't, we can't have a nurse living with us all the time!

If I can cope with it then I'm sure a teacher could, presumably they are reasonably well educated!  Or failing that, there are such things as school NURSES, maybe it should be their job.  I don't think the law says that it must be a teacher that does the injections, just that somebody must, so could be a first aider or school nurse.


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## Hanmillmum

HOBIE said:


> Teachers are TEACHERS not Nurses !  Get her insulin changed to 1or2 injections a day. Like it used to be.  Some nurses can be dizzy never mind teachers who have 30 kids off on one !   Good luck



I'm rather aggrieved at this opinion - we challenged this antiquated attitude (along with our consultant's and DSN's support) at our first hurdle with the funding system who suggested we give up the pump for two daily injections to make their lives both easier and cheaper. Teachers can be teachers at their chosing, we wouldn't want someone feeling out of their depth and under pressure if this didn't suit them, there are other options the school can consider though but old style treatment regimes shouldn't be one of them.


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## Redkite

HOBIE said:


> Teachers are TEACHERS not Nurses !  Get her insulin changed to 1or2 injections a day. Like it used to be.  Some nurses can be dizzy never mind teachers who have 30 kids off on one !   Good luck



Hobie that is shocking coming from you, since you know how great your pump is, why would you want to condemn a child to an antiquated regimen that would have an adverse effect on her future health, ie 2 injections a day of mixed insulin?  Give me strength!  We had to fight for better treatment, and we had to fight for the support in school to allow that treatment to happen.  And yes, teachers are teachers, but they are not the only staff in schools.    And please don't give us the "it wasn't like that in my day" line - back in those days children with any kind of disability were discriminated against, and many segregated in "special" schools - this is the 21st century, modern treatments are available to children, and if they need adult support to use them, then that is their right.


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## HOBIE

Sally71 said:


> Erm... Sorry Hobie, but why should this child have to put up with substandard treatment just to suit the school?  MDI is way better than mixed insulins, it allows so much more flexibility.  You wouldn't give up your pump and go a step or two backwards in your treatment regime, so why should anyone else?
> 
> I don't know if you have children but would you want them to have to suffer in this way?  I'm not a nurse either and don't particularly want to have to deal with it, but my daughter isn't old enough to take control of it herself yet, so until she is I have no choice but to do it for her.  Who will do it if I don't, we can't have a nurse living with us all the time!
> 
> If I can cope with it then I'm sure a teacher could, presumably they are reasonably well educated!  Or failing that, there are such things as school NURSES, maybe it should be their job.  I don't think the law says that it must be a teacher that does the injections, just that somebody must, so could be a first aider or school nurse.



Sally I was 3 when diagnosed (in the 60s). What type of insulin do you think I was on !  If the kid can not cope they should be put on something they can cope with !  I have friends who TEACH not nurse. If my son or daughter were T1 I would take some time off or get a job with different shifts.


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## Northerner

HOBIE said:


> Sally I was 3 when diagnosed (in the 60s). What type of insulin do you think I was on !  If the kid can not cope they should be put on something they can cope with !  I have friends who TEACH not nurse. If my son or daughter were T1 I would take some time off or get a job with different shifts.



Hobie, you have done great with your diabetes for decades, but you shouldn't think that everyone can follow in your shoes, and it really doesn't make sense to suggest that people 50 years on should return to how you had to manage things - life moves on! If I was a teacher I would be happy to help a child if it meant they stood a better chance in life, times are very different from the 1960s and please don't forget that many, many children did not grow up to be as fortunate as you.


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## trophywench

Well Hobie, 'yes and me' only I was 22 - and this change in Law has been a long time coming and was a HARD fight to win.  It covers children with all sorts of disabilities, not just diabetic ones - all the health charities backed this campaign once DUK started it - and I'm quite shocked to be honest to hear you say what you've said!

'We don't have any disabled access so your kid confined to a wheelchair can't be schooled cos I've decided only the Maths teacher can put it in and he won't volunteer.'

Yes, parents might have been forced to do it in the bad old days - tough if you are a single parent on the breadline eh?

They have changed the LAW.  It is the LAW.  Not a matter of choice.

You know - like all of us had no choice of whether we became diabetic in the first place - they have no choice but to obey the law!


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## Sally71

HOBIE said:


> Sally I was 3 when diagnosed (in the 60s). What type of insulin do you think I was on !  If the kid can not cope they should be put on something they can cope with !  I have friends who TEACH not nurse. If my son or daughter were T1 I would take some time off or get a job with different shifts.



Hobie you were on mixed insulin then because there wasn't anything else!!!

Nowadays much better treatments are available, why should anyone be denied them just because other people find it more convenient?

If you think that mixed insulins are so amazing well give up your pump and go back to them then!

And I very much doubt that you did your own injections at age 3.  So they should have given you something else that you could cope with then. Oh whoops, there wasn't anything else was there...

And some people who actually WORK for a living and don't want to sponge off the state can't get time off whenever it suits them or they will lose their job - and it's not always possible to find a new job straight away just when you need one either.  So the poor child is expected to live on the breadline as well?!


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## HOBIE

They should go back to mixed insulin then !  What happens when she starts WORK. Is her employer going to run after her. There MUST be a insulin given first thing lasting till aprox 3 when school is out. There ARE diff ways to solve this.  Once again I would not let Teachers do the injections.  In my Comp there were 3 of us T1. Imagine possibly 3 types of insulin & deff diff amounts. You could have the most caring Teacher but   I would not let any unqualified person inject my child sorry


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## grainger

I have to agree that teachers shouldn't be forced to do anything they are not comfortable with. At the end of the day I wouldn't feel confident giving a medication I did not have a full understanding of and what if they did make a mistake by accident, the guilt and trauma of that could be devastating. It should be a choice for a teacher if they want to take on this responsibility - let's not diminish this as something that's simple, a mistake could be catastrophic. 

However, the school should ensure that there are measures put in place to allow this child to be in school with her peers and not isolated. There needs to be give and take here. Schools are under enormous pressure and they need support and help to ensure they can meet the needs of all their pupils. 

I hope it's sorted soon and she can return to school. Possibly being fitted with a pump could help?


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## Redkite

HOBIE said:


> They should go back to mixed insulin then !  What happens when she starts WORK. Is her employer going to run after her. There MUST be a insulin given first thing lasting till aprox 3 when school is out. There ARE diff ways to solve this.  Once again I would not let Teachers do the injections.  In my Comp there were 3 of us T1. Imagine possibly 3 types of insulin & deff diff amounts. You could have the most caring Teacher but   I would not let any unqualified person inject my child sorry



Neither would I!  That's why the staff have TRAINING from the DSN and a clear care plan to follow!  If I had allowed my son to languish on the mixed insulins he was put on at the age of 4, how could I live with myself if he developed complications in the future?  What would I say, oh sorry but it was easier and more convenient at school?!!!  No - he's having the best available treatment just like you are, and thankfully the people who make the law agree!


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## Sally71

I would hope that by the time my daughter starts work that she will be an adult and therefore well capable of looking after her diabetes by herself!  It's only at the beginning that they need help, not forever. My daughter can already do a lot more for herself than she could two years ago, give it another couple of years and she'll probably be doing all her carb counting as well.  Which incidentally I do at the moment, not anyone at the school.

And as I keep saying, it doesn't have to be a TEACHER that does the training!

If you would be happy for your children to be on a second-rate treatment which might have an adverse effect on their future health, just for the sake of everyone else's convenience, then good luck to them.  I would question whether that qualifies as negligence actually!  Especially when there is a law saying that the school must deal with whatever treatment they need!

Anyway I shall come out of this thread now, don't want to go round in circles forever


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## Bloden

Good luck sorting out your daughter's injections, Jecra. She shouldn't be stopped from going to school. It sounds like you've got the law behind you. Let us know how you get on.


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## jecra

wow, a bit of a minefield it seems. My issue is really that she will only need a bit of support for a few weeks and there are staff willing to volunteer and some have trained. It is just that the headteacher has said that they can't and seems to be obstructive. I don't want to change what her consultant feels is the best regime for her to fit around a school that is not fulfilling its statutory duty. Thanks for the links, theres some useful info there


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## HOBIE

grainger said:


> I have to agree that teachers shouldn't be forced to do anything they are not comfortable with. At the end of the day I wouldn't feel confident giving a medication I did not have a full understanding of and what if they did make a mistake by accident, the guilt and trauma of that could be devastating. It should be a choice for a teacher if they want to take on this responsibility - let's not diminish this as something that's simple, a mistake could be catastrophic.
> 
> However, the school should ensure that there are measures put in place to allow this child to be in school with her peers and not isolated. There needs to be give and take here. Schools are under enormous pressure and they need support and help to ensure they can meet the needs of all their pupils.
> 
> I hope it's sorted soon and she can return to school. Possibly being fitted with a pump could help?



I really really don't want to read it in newspaper that a "Teacher has made a mistake at lunch time".


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## trophywench

Nor does anyone Hobie!!

Schools and teachers are firmly 'in Loco Parentis' during working hours. Yes, they have ALWAYS had that responsibility towards the children in their care.  If they are not prepared to TAKE that responsibility then they should never have entered the profession in the first place!!

ALL children WILL be taught to inject themselves asap - someone from USA on the other forum was 11, and she took charge of her own jabs the next day, same as me at 22.  BUT importantly we were both in-patients at the time.  I don't think you can expect a newly diagnosed child to take charge 'in the wild' before they are ready and a couple of weeks isn't enough.  Carb counting , let alone correction doses and reductions for exercise etc takes a while to sink in and become automatic hence even if they are jabbing themselves they'll need a bit of help/encouragement/supervision !!

And her mum has already repeated what she said - the jabbing part is purely temporary!!


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## HOBIE

trophywench said:


> Nor does anyone Hobie!!
> 
> Schools and teachers are firmly 'in Loco Parentis' during working hours. Yes, they have ALWAYS had that responsibility towards the children in their care.  If they are not prepared to TAKE that responsibility then they should never have entered the profession in the first place!!
> 
> ALL children WILL be taught to inject themselves asap - someone from USA on the other forum was 11, and she took charge of her own jabs the next day, same as me at 22.  BUT importantly we were both in-patients at the time.  I don't think you can expect a newly diagnosed child to take charge 'in the wild' before they are ready and a couple of weeks isn't enough.  Carb counting , let alone correction doses and reductions for exercise etc takes a while to sink in and become automatic hence even if they are jabbing themselves they'll need a bit of help/encouragement/supervision !!
> 
> And her mum has already repeated what she said - the jabbing part is purely temporary!!



So you think Teachers should do it do injections & judge little tommy needs 5 units Mary lou needs 12 wild Luke needs 22 do you.  Oh & I need to teach this afternoon & go to see my mother -in-law at tea time !


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## Northerner

HOBIE said:


> So you think Teachers should do it do injections & judge little tommy needs 5 units Mary lou needs 12 wild Luke needs 22 do you.  Oh & I need to teach this afternoon & go to see my mother -in-law at tea time !



Why should it be such a problem for an intelligent person to deal with?  I have managed it, as have millions of others...


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## Redkite

HOBIE said:


> So you think Teachers should do it do injections & judge little tommy needs 5 units Mary lou needs 12 wild Luke needs 22 do you.  Oh & I need to teach this afternoon & go to see my mother -in-law at tea time !



No the teacher or teaching assistant or other member of school staff who is responsible for a child's diabetes care does NOT make dosing decisions - that is clearly laid out for them in the child's care plan.  An easy-to-follow chart of what to do at different BG levels and different carb amounts.  This is normal practice in schools now Hobie.


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## HOBIE

Hi Northy. It could be the best Teacher in the world but !  Little Tommy did not have his weetabix & only had half this morning then ran daft in the school playground with his mates. The teacher gives him his normal 10 & then there is a public out cry cause little tommy was not well   I can see the headlines in the press  I would not want to part of that & I know about because I have been & done it   2 units of insulin can make a BIG difference !


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## Hanmillmum

HOBIE you need to read what people are posting - "doses are adjusted accordingly", BG is checked before any dose - all this via a care plan which is in enough detail for anyone to pick up for any eventuality. It's not rocket science to do this. Again as already posted several times, the teacher doesn't have to do it, the school by law has to have someone to assist where needed.


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## Northerner

That still assumes that a teacher would not be capable of making the same decisions as any other adult, or seeking help if unsure..


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## Bloden

I wouldn't like the responsibility BUT every child has the right to an education and schools have to be prepared for these things. It's hard enough for T1 kids, why make it harder?


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## KookyCat

My sister in law is deputy head at a small primary with three tots who have type 1 two have pumps and 1 uses MDI.  All teachers are trained what to for kids with diabetes, epilepsy, asthma and a cardiac disorder that one tot has, they have a care assistant who specialises in administering insulin via injection or pump and can use a defibrillator.  It can be done, and very sensibly the schools just need to consider how they use the funds to do it.  Regardless of their condition children have a right to a safe education so if a school isn't fulfiling their obligations under the law they should be helped to do so.  Some schools will undoubtedly take time to adjust but very soon school should be a safe place for all kids which is just how it should be.  Good luck getting it sorted


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## Andy HB

Don't usually read the parent's thread for obvious reasons, but this caught my eye.

In my day there was a dedicated school nurse! Don't they exist any more? If not, perhaps they should be re-instated.


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## Redkite

Some schools still have nurses, but many just have a first aider, and staff can't be compelled to do injections unless they were hired specifically to do that role.  My son's primary school had no nurse and I had to go in every lunchtime to inject him (I ended up becoming a dinner lady!).  There is a school nurse at his secondary school, and although he doesn't need her to be able to inject insulin, she has been trained on the emergency glucagon injection, and we keep one in the school medical room fridge.   And before anyone thinks that's way OTT, he came extremely close to needing it one day in October when they had been doing an unplanned session of mountain biking in P.E.!!


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## Sally71

In our area there are school nurses but one nurse is shared by several primary schools and the nurse is actually based at the local health centre!  I've never actually seen our nurse and don't even have a clue what she looks like, but others have seen her, I think she only comes to the school when there is a special reason for her to.  We have been really lucky and my daughter's teachers have always read the care plan carefully and just got on with it so the nurse has never been needed for her.  I don't know whether it would have been different if she was on injections though!


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## redshaw

I hope your problems with injecting at school are now over, as your daughter is probably up and running.

I read all the posts on here, and feel compelled to contribute from the viewpoint of having type 1 for over 30 years from the age of 13, seeing the children with diabetes at primary school, the ones at our high school (where I work), and working with the person who implements the Health Care Plans.

Firstly, primary school children will need help with looking after their diabetes at school.  And from what I have seen they get it.  However, my neighbour still needed to bring her daughter home for lunch everyday to ensure she actually ate.  But that has resolved itself, and that is what DLA is for, to cover not working or reducing your hours.

Secondly, unless very newly diagnosed, a 12 year will be expected to inject herself (unless she has a disability that prevents that).  We were inpatients back in the day, and made to do our injections from the very second dose.  Secondary school WILL NOT normally receive any extra funding for diabetic students.  But will make provision for them.  Extra funding is normally only available for severely disabled children who require an assistant with them.  A diabetic doesn't.

The Health Care requirements doesn't specify that secondary school students must have someone in to do their injections.  I wouldn't want to be held responsible for giving insulin to a teenager who subsequently decides not to eat their lunch.  We hold any medical supplies the students need and extra hypo treatments.  I have even stocked the cupboard with spare meters and strips, just in case.  We have policies that they can test and eat in class.  I have even held CPD sessions for staff on how to understand their diabetic students and all the things they have to cope with all day.

Teenagers do not want to be different from their friends, and there could be nothing worse than having to go off to Mrs X to have their injection, and being "special".

I hope your daughter is finding coping easier now with a little experience under her belt.  It will get easier, and I wish her the very best.  By the summer she will be a pro and able to cope independently.


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## Copepod

Welcome to the forum, redshaw. Please introduce yourself in Newbies section, and join in as much or as little as you choose.


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## HOBIE

I would go to your school Redshaw ! Well put & well done showing other teachers.  Welcome


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