# Pumping with animal insulin



## Pumper_Sue (Jan 6, 2011)

Liz! said:


> Remember it's not just highs that can be a pain in the btm, if you can't stop lows at certain times of the day then it might be, like me, that you have a very low insulin asal requirement then and no long-acting insulin can cope with that.
> 
> I still have problems as my night time requirements are about 0.025u per hour between 12 and 3 in the morning, but my pump doesn't go down that far, so I do fel ill in the mornings quite often, and also often have to eat before bed (when I really do not want to) and half way through the night when it's almost impossible.
> 
> However the pump revolutionised my life, that and animal insulin. i had problems with bending my fingers, pain in joints, and very, very severe hypos - as soon as I wen ton animal insulin the pains went, my fingers freed up and my hypos, while still reading the same don't feel so terrible. Human and analog insulin just seems too - strong or something for me.




Hi Liz,
Like you I use animal insulin in my pump.
Same as you I would hypo in the early hoursbut hopefully I stopped the problem now.
What I do is turn my pump off from 9.30 PM untill midnight then have a 0.05 going until 2 AM. I then Ramp up the insulin for a couple of hours then down again. Even with the pump turned off I would still end up with a low some nights.
But
Reading someone elses post on another forum made me think a bit as well. They mentioned changing their carb ratio for their evening meal to stop the night time lows. I have tried this and can say it has cured the problem for me. So well worth thinking about if you haven't already done so.
Also I found timing the basal changes correctly made a massive improvement for me as well. I was told to use 4 hours before any change  2 hours it is for me though.
Hope that helps you a bit. Perhaps you can pass on some tips to me as well as you have been pumping for so long.


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## Ellie Jones (Jan 6, 2011)

Some people just don't get on with some of the human insulins, like any medication really you will get a number of people who will suffer side effects and can't use it...

I've used both insulins Animal and Human I've really haven't had problems with either insulin, both work the same for me..

Les has used both Anima and Human insulins, he did have problems with animal as he used to produce anit-bodies to them, so could only use one for type of animal insulin for a period of time before it was rendered useless!  He's not experienced this problem with human insulin, he always used Novo rapid for his qucik, but swapped to Levimer when he moved to the bolus/basal regime of injecting..  About the only problem he had was getting used to the difference in his hypo warning when he first swapped..


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## Liz! (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi again Sue!! Do you mean change the basal rate 4 hours before you want it to take effect? Because that's madness. Its action profile has practially finished after 4 hours, and it starts working in an hour, for me anyway... I do my boluses half an hor before. What do you do?


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## Liz! (Jan 6, 2011)

That should of course be half an hour before! 

Human and analogues have a strange effect on some people. There is a organisation called insulin Dependent Diabetes Trust where you can get info about the problem, the symptoms are numerous. 

I researched the problem for ages - and hold really rather contentious views on analogue insulins, after reading the research documents (now unavailable) on some of them. If anyone is interested I can tell you what i think by pm.

I did wonder if the problems might be caused by the excipients, the preservative in fact, as human insulin is a lot more unstable than animal and needs more preservative, and analogue insulin is even more unstable and requires a lot of preservative. The preservatives used are definitely poisonous, in fact the same stuff was banned from laboratory use years and years ago, yet we are forced to inject it and have it in our bodies night and day for our whole lives. 

However, as with all these things, proving it would be impossible. Insulin is unstable and requires a preservative. In view of this, A scientist in Sweden actually invented a needle with a filter in that removed the preservative JUST prior to injection, so that the insulin was safe, and so would we be from the preservative, but no pharmaceutical compnay would take it up. 

Interestingly, it was produced because children taking growth hormone occasionally reacted to these same preservatives in the growth hormone, and so they got him to invent a way to take it out. In the end they decided to do it by drying the growth hormone and mixing it back with liquid just before injecting it, which removed the need for preservative, but this cannot be done with insulin as it loses its action if dried. So his invention was going spare. It's always irritated me that growth hormone recipients were thought important enough to protect but we are not.

Gosh, i'm getting a lot of things off my chest here! Sorry!


Edit to say, sorry also for changing subject in such a long reply.


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## Pumper_Sue (Jan 6, 2011)

Liz! said:


> Hi again Sue!! Do you mean change the basal rate 4 hours before you want it to take effect? Because that's madness. Its action profile has practially finished after 4 hours, and it starts working in an hour, for me anyway... I do my boluses half an hor before. What do you do?



IHi Liz, I bolus 30 mins before I eat. My insulin duration is set at 4 hours 45 mins. Insulin starts working within 30 mins and peeks at the 2 hours and gradually wears off. Hence why I do any basal changes at the 2 hour mark.

If you look at the action profile for the neutral insulin's you will find it does last longer than 4 hours.
Sue


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## Northerner (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi ladies, I moved your discussion to it's own thread so it would be easier to find for other members interested in the topic.


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## Liz! (Jan 6, 2011)

I had it down as 5, as that seemed to be its duration, but that didn't work for me. Might try again at 4:45!


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## Pumper_Sue (Jan 6, 2011)

Liz! said:


> I had it down as 5, as that seemed to be its duration, but that didn't work for me. Might try again at 4:45!



Obviously everyone is different, trial and error works wonders 
Some say it works for a lot longer for them I know the duration is something like 6 - 8 hours on the pamphlets.
This will put the muckers on it  So far so good as I can go all day without eating now if I want to or any sign of a hypo. 

I'm due a change of pump this year so that will be fun sorting all the new settings and basals out again.


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## Pumper_Sue (Jan 6, 2011)

Northerner said:


> Hi ladies, I moved your discussion to it's own thread so it would be easier to find for other members interested in the topic.



Thanks Northerner


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## Liz! (Jan 6, 2011)

Which pump do you have? I have a Cozmo Deltec and I am so not wanting to change it, although I'll have to when its life is over as they are no longer made.

But it has the BEST functions ever.


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## Pumper_Sue (Jan 7, 2011)

Liz! said:


> Which pump do you have? I have a Cozmo Deltec and I am so not wanting to change it, although I'll have to when its life is over as they are no longer made.
> 
> But it has the BEST functions ever.



Ohh Snap. I love my Cozmo. I'm going for the DanaR next as like the features on it. Plus the support from Advanced Therapeutics is 2nd to none. 
Like you I think the Cozmo has the best features of all the pumps and have been spoilt rotten for a 1st pump. Advanced T have been working with Sooil though, and they have added loads of the Cozmo features to it.


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## bev (Jan 7, 2011)

Liz! said:


> That should of course be half an hour before!
> 
> Human and analogues have a strange effect on some people. There is a organisation called insulin Dependent Diabetes Trust where you can get info about the problem, the symptoms are numerous.
> 
> ...



Hi Liz,
I would be interested to know what information you have on the 'poisonous' effects of insulin.Bev


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## Liz! (Jan 7, 2011)

Insulin isn't poisonous, but the excipients are known to be harmful tio human health. 

How do I pm you re info in research docs?


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## bev (Jan 7, 2011)

Liz! said:


> Insulin isn't poisonous, but the excipients are known to be harmful tio human health.
> 
> How do I pm you re info in research docs?



Hi Liz,

If you just click on my profile - scroll down and choose 'send private message' and you should be able to put a link on it. Thanks.Bev


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## Liz! (Jan 7, 2011)

i'll do that now Bev.

And Sue, i think you might be my twin.


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## Liz! (Jan 7, 2011)

I was reading about that one, or a csimilar one recently (looking to see what's available) and the reviewer saud that they don't have 24 hour care, a good easy to navigate website, manuels to download and stuff like that... so I discounted it. Presumably if Advanced Therapeutics is going to do it here things will be ok...


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## Pumper_Sue (Jan 7, 2011)

Liz! said:


> I was reading about that one, or a csimilar one recently (looking to see what's available) and the reviewer saud that they don't have 24 hour care, a good easy to navigate website, manuels to download and stuff like that... so I discounted it. Presumably if Advanced Therapeutics is going to do it here things will be ok...



The manuals are all in good English, Les sorted that  There is also 24/7 care exactly the same as with the Cozmo. 
At some point the area rep is going to drop me in a DanaR to play with.


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## Liz! (Jan 7, 2011)

Will be very interested to hear! I just went to look on the new website and sent him a load of questions! 

Actually, on the Sooil website the English is still not good. Being a writer you notice these things. 

I need a pump with a smaller bolus incremet than 0.05, and only one other does it and I don't like it.


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## Pumper_Sue (Jan 7, 2011)

Liz! said:


> Will be very interested to hear! I just went to look on the new website and sent him a load of questions!
> 
> Actually, on the Sooil website the English is still not good. Being a writer you notice these things.
> 
> I need a pump with a smaller bolus incremet than 0.05, and only one other does it and I don't like it.



The roche pump does as does medtronic and the DanaR.


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