# Diabetic claims discrimination over pub injection incident



## Northerner (Mar 9, 2014)

A DIABETIC claims he is being discriminated against after being asked to leave a pub when he injected insulin in full view of customers.

Neil Simpson, who has type-1 diabetes and must inject around five times a day, claims he was unfairly ejected by the landlady of O'Donoghue's pub on Spittal Street last week.

The 46-year-old, who has battled the condition for 40 years, said he was pulled aside by Eileen O’Donoghue after administering insulin in a needle through his jeans at the bar while watching football with friends.

And the businessman, who runs a string of shoe repair and key cutting shops, is angry over what he feels is discrimination simply for having the condition - an allegation Ms O'Donoghue and her husband strongly deny.

http://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/new...s_discrimination_over_pub_injection_incident/

Ridiculous! Who is he harming?


----------



## EthelT (Mar 9, 2014)

Northerner said:


> A DIABETIC claims he is being discriminated against after being asked to leave a pub when he injected insulin in full view of customers.
> 
> Neil Simpson, who has type-1 diabetes and must inject around five times a day, claims he was unfairly ejected by the landlady of O'Donoghue's pub on Spittal Street last week.
> 
> ...



The story goes on to say that he was asked not to inject in full public view in the busy bar several times before and was asked to use a quieter back bar instead.  Fair enough - some people really can't stand the sight of needles, even if they're not the ones being injected.


----------



## Northerner (Mar 9, 2014)

EthelT said:


> The story goes on to say that he was asked not to inject in full public view in the busy bar several times before and was asked to use a quieter back bar instead.  Fair enough - some people really can't stand the sight of needles, even if they're not the ones being injected.



I can appreciate that, and you should be discreet. Having said that, you can barely see the needle even when it's right in front of you, they are so small and fine, and on pens they look nothing like traditional hypodermic syringes. There appears to be a dispute as to how many times he was asked.

He shouldn't be injecting through clothes though, not very hygenic!


----------



## Cleo (Mar 9, 2014)

If people don't like the sight of needles then they should just look away.  It's that simple really.  
And agree that it's not hygienic to inject through clothes ...


----------



## EthelT (Mar 9, 2014)

I don't inject but have to take over 20 tablets throughout the day for various conditions and I'd be horrified if anybody saw me take them in a public place.


----------



## HERE TINTIN (Mar 9, 2014)

I take 27 tablets daily and I inject 4 times a day. I feel embarrassed to do either in public, but I will do it. I think I shouldnt be made to feel this way but unfortunately have been made to not just by the general public but at times by friends as well. I do stick to my priciples and do it but I squirm whilst  doing so !, but surely it is my right to take my tabletss and insulin as I see fit ?


----------



## Redkite (Mar 9, 2014)

This makes me very angry.  I would be very upset to be treated in such a way, it is clear discrimination.


----------



## Vicsetter (Mar 9, 2014)

It's ironic that just a couple of years ago these same people would be encouraging and even partaking in inflicting smoking on everyone in the pub and even now they make a living selling drugs (alcohol) and yet they can't stand the sight of someone taking their medicine.  They need suing.


----------



## EthelT (Mar 9, 2014)

I can't see how it is discrimination.  He was welcome to drink in the pub and had been offered a quieter place to inject himself.  I assume they would do the same for anyone injecting themselves for medical reasons, diabetic or not.
It would be discrimination if all diabetics were barred from either drinking in the pub at all or bringing their medical equipment on to the premises.


----------



## Pumper_Sue (Mar 9, 2014)

Having read the article and seeing the blokes kit! He has a syringe, so he would have to draw that up in public and inject in full view.

As he had been asked to use another area which is private and also safe from anyone else perhaps fainting from the sight of the needle or anyone being injured by it, then I back the landlady.

The landlady has a duty of care to all of her clients so the gentleman was offered an alternative place to inject, which was not the toilet.
There are people with extreme phobias against needles and or syringes and this has to be respected as well.


----------



## Redkite (Mar 9, 2014)

Well I'm afraid I stand by my view that it's discrimination.  He isn't "a diabetic", he is a person with diabetes.  He should be able to enjoy the services of the pub with his friends, and not be obliged to hide himself away as though there is something wrong or shameful about needing insulin.  It's exactly the same principle as with breastfeeding.  People who are squeamish should just look away.


----------



## Pumper_Sue (Mar 9, 2014)

Redkite said:


> Well I'm afraid I stand by my view that it's discrimination.  He isn't "a diabetic", he is a person with diabetes.  He should be able to enjoy the services of the pub with his friends, and not be obliged to hide himself away as though there is something wrong or shameful about needing insulin.  It's exactly the same principle as with breastfeeding.  People who are squeamish should just look away.



So if you were terrified of spiders or snakes what would your reaction be if someone took out their pet python in front of you or said here have a look at my cutsie little tarantula 

I'm also a person with diabetes and I would not dream of taking a needle and syringe out in full view of anyone else and neither would I inject at the meal table.
It's my diabetes and I do not see the need to share it with every Tom, Dick or Harry in the room.


----------



## EthelT (Mar 9, 2014)

Redkite said:


> Well I'm afraid I stand by my view that it's discrimination.  He isn't "a diabetic", he is a person with diabetes.  He should be able to enjoy the services of the pub with his friends, and not be obliged to hide himself away as though there is something wrong or shameful about needing insulin.  It's exactly the same principle as with breastfeeding.  People who are squeamish should just look away.



Of course he should be able to enjoy the pub with his friends, but surely going to another room to inject himself would only take a minute or two?   He's not being told to stay in another room for the whole duration of his visit.


----------



## Northerner (Mar 9, 2014)

EthelT said:


> Of course he should be able to enjoy the pub with his friends, but surely going to another room to inject himself would only take a minute or two?   He's not being told to stay in another room for the whole duration of his visit.



I don't see why this would be necessary. I have injected in public many times, I just don't make a show of it. If he was making a show of it, then fair enough, he ought to show a bit of consideration. I don't particularly like doing it, but don't see why I should go through some extra rigmarole to do it. The only time I think I caused a problem for someone was on a crowded train from London when I had to eat and had to inject. The man next to me got up and went off to seek another (imaginary!) seat.


----------



## EthelT (Mar 9, 2014)

I wonder if any uninformed person has ever called the police thinking somebody was using illegal drugs when they've seen somebody with diabetes inject themself?


----------



## Pumper_Sue (Mar 9, 2014)

Northerner said:


> I don't see why this would be necessary. I have injected in public many times, I just don't make a show of it. If he was making a show of it, then fair enough, he ought to show a bit of consideration. I don't particularly like doing it, but don't see why I should go through some extra rigmarole to do it. The only time I think I caused a problem for someone was on a crowded train from London when I had to eat and had to inject. The man next to me got up and went off to seek another (imaginary!) seat.



The difference though Alan is you use a pen the gentleman had a syringe, which is quite different as you need a vial to fill syringe up make sure no air in it etc.
This can not be done under the table.

Also people have to remember in this day and age about contaminated needles. If the gentleman had accidently been knocked by someone and they end up with a needle prick injury who sues who then?


----------



## HERE TINTIN (Mar 9, 2014)

Pumper_Sue said:


> So if you were terrified of spiders or snakes what would your reaction be if someone took out their pet python in front of you or said here have a look at my cutsie little tarantula
> 
> I'm also a person with diabetes and I would not dream of taking a needle and syringe out in full view of anyone else and neither would I inject at the meal table.
> It's my diabetes and I do not see the need to share it with every Tom, Dick or Harry in the room.



I disagree, I think if I whip out my pen and press it against my arm there is a fair chance it would be difficult to actually tell I was evan injecting, its very discreet. Most people out of respect would just look away if they noticed and unless I was waving it up in the air to scare anyone with a needle phobia I do not see the similarities to waving a dangerous animal about the place.Most of us amy run if we saw a deadly snake or spider, or evan a gun if you want to go further, but a pen ? Countless people have seen my pen and not for once mistaken it as an hyperdermic syringe of the old variety. Maybe at the end of the day its about being able to inject a life saving medication without fear of retribution, and indeed any where we are comfortable with. Maybe we should go back to not breastfeeding in public as well ?, as I am sure some are still offended by that. Also if we hide diabetes as being ours then we cant complain when the public misunderstand it.


----------



## Pumper_Sue (Mar 9, 2014)

TinTin the bloke had a syringe not a pen there's a big difference


----------



## HERE TINTIN (Mar 9, 2014)

I appolagise Sue,I didnt think anyone used such things anymore. I stand by my inject discreetly anywhere Though a lot more discretion would be prudent if using an actual syringe. When I was younger and still using syringes mine fell out of my bag at a meeting for my mother and toddler group, I was the chair ! Cannot really remember how that went down.


----------



## Pumper_Sue (Mar 9, 2014)

HERE TINTIN said:


> I appolagise Sue,I didnt think anyone used such things anymore. I stand by my inject discreetly anywhere Though a lot more discretion would be prudent if using an actual syringe. When I was younger and still using syringes mine fell out of my bag at a meeting for my mother and toddler group, I was the chair ! Cannot really remember how that went down.



I have never used pens hated the damn things I still use syringes now if I have a pump problem.


----------



## AlisonM (Mar 9, 2014)

Pumper_Sue said:


> TinTin the bloke had a syringe not a pen there's a big difference



Yes, I agree. I've left my pen sitting on the table in restaurants and pubs and injected there without anyone blinking - I doubt many even realised what it was. But a syringe is a very different animal and people will get upset if they catch sight of it. Not forgetting that they likely misunderstand what they're seeing. Asking him to inject in another more private bar isn't unreasonable, in fact, I'd say the bar folk are being very understanding.


----------



## Redkite (Mar 9, 2014)

It's not clear in the photo but it doesn't look like a syringe to me, and it doesn't specify in the article.  In any case, Sue if your personal preference is not to inject in public then that's your choice, but to be forced to hide away like a leper is deeply hurtful to me (having had this attempted to be imposed on my son and another child with diabetes - and the establishment in question did NOT get away with such discriminatory treatment!).  In fact, we have always encouraged injecting in public so that he feels comfortable and normal doing so.  It has been beneficial sometimes in starting conversations with other people (especially children) about type 1 and the burden of managing it.  Public ignorance won't be cured by hiding away!

There is no comparison with bringing snakes and spiders along - these are not a vital necessity to a person's life, whereas injecting insulin is if you are type 1!


----------



## bev (Mar 9, 2014)

My eldest daughter has a phobia about dogs and would prefer it if there werent any everywhere she went but that isnt possible as other people have a right to their choice of lifestyle and so do people with diabetes. This is a life-saving medication that should be 'allowed' to be injected whenever and wherever it is needed. Yes - the bar owner offered another room to inject in but this didnt suit the person involved or perhaps he felt his condition was being 'hidden' by doing so - we dont know - and newspapers often have a different agenda with their storytelling as we all know! Some people have phobia's about buttons but we cant all remove them from our clothes! Luckily Alex has a pump so its more discreet than injecting - but when he used to inject he would do it at the table in a restaurant - he did sometimes feel shy doing that - but he was never made to feel he should hide his condition by going elsewhere. If he had preferred to be private then I would have asked for a room for him to inject in - but he hasnt really ever felt he needed toBev


----------



## Pumper_Sue (Mar 9, 2014)

Redkite said:


> It's not clear in the photo but it doesn't look like a syringe to me, and it doesn't specify in the article.  In any case, Sue if your personal preference is not to inject in public then that's your choice, but to be forced to hide away like a leper is deeply hurtful to me (having had this attempted to be imposed on my son and another child with diabetes - and the establishment in question did NOT get away with such discriminatory treatment!).  In fact, we have always encouraged injecting in public so that he feels comfortable and normal doing so.  It has been beneficial sometimes in starting conversations with other people (especially children) about type 1 and the burden of managing it.  Public ignorance won't be cured by hiding away!
> 
> There is no comparison with bringing snakes and spiders along - these are not a vital necessity to a person's life, whereas injecting insulin is if you are type 1!



I can assure you that is a vial of insulin and a syringe in the photo.

Please let me make it clear I do not hide my diabetes away from anyone but I do not inflict it on others either.

As to personal preference that's rich esp when you are saying customers have no preference the bloke can inject and sod the rest of em.

Yes there is a comparison between snakes/spiders/needles and syringes esp if you have a phobia against them which is all I was pointing out.


----------



## delb t (Mar 9, 2014)

We have always encouraged injecting in public too- when first dx H would hide behind a menu/ go to the toilets ... lasted  a few weeks . We always made a point of eating out once a week  inorder to carb guess and continue some normality!!!- We havn't had any problems to date... and I wouldn't want it any other way/nor would he... have I  mentioned I am needle phobic and so is my daughter


----------



## Copepod (Mar 9, 2014)

The photo does show the plunger end (not needle end) of a 1ml syringe, which means that after drawing insulin from vial to syringe, he would have needed to hold needle upwards to ensure he didn't inject air bubble, which would give a false dose. So, he couldn't have been as discrete as those of us who use pen devices, which can be injected under a table, barely seen by the person doing the injection, let alone anyone else.

I reckon the landlady was acting reasonably in offering an alternative place (quieter bar), having asked that he didn't inject in a busy bar, where someone could knock his arm and / or someone with a needle phobia might have been affected. If he'd been told to go outside or into toilet, that would have been discrimination; offering an alternative location was not.


----------



## Pumper_Sue (Mar 9, 2014)

Copepod said:


> The photo does show the plunger end (not needle end) of a 1ml syringe, which means that after drawing insulin from vial to syringe, he would have needed to hold needle upwards to ensure he didn't inject air bubble, which would give a false dose. So, he couldn't have been as discrete as those of us who use pen devices, which can be injected under a table, barely seen by the person doing the injection, let alone anyone else.
> 
> I reckon the landlady was acting reasonably in offering an alternative place (quieter bar), having asked that he didn't inject in a busy bar, where someone could knock his arm and / or someone with a needle phobia might have been affected. If he'd been told to go outside or into toilet, that would have been discrimination; offering an alternative location was not.



Very well said


----------



## Northerner (Mar 9, 2014)

Pumper_Sue said:


> I can assure you that is a vial of insulin and a syringe in the photo.



How would you regard the situation if he had been using a pen, Sue? What do you have against them, preferring syringes, surely they are an improvement?


----------



## Pumper_Sue (Mar 9, 2014)

Northerner said:


> How would you regard the situation if he had been using a pen, Sue? What do you have against them, preferring syringes, surely they are an improvement?



If he was using a pen then fine he would not have had to have it in full view whilst filling it from a vial as described by Copepod, So no problem.
Waving a syringe round is a different kettle of fish IMHO.

It's personal choice I don't like the pens, besides why should I use one when it would mean 5 injections a day and a syringe meant 3 injections a day. 
I do have a pump now though.


----------



## DeusXM (Mar 10, 2014)

For me there's definitely a difference between syringes and pens when it comes to injection etiquette. 

Syringes are very 'medicalised' and as Sue rightly points out, they are also not discreet. 

There needs to be a bit of give and take when it comes to handling diabetes in public. I believe you should be entitled to inject wherever you like but you should also be sensitive to those around you. When you inject 6 times a day it can become very easy to be blase about injections and see them as normal. For most people though, injections are a massive deal. We have a responsibility to work around that.

Someone with a colostomy bag wouldn't go changing their bag in front of everyone in a pub. Same for injections. You either do it as discreet as you can or you find a spot round the corner to go do it.

To be honest, I'd always choose to be very discreet about my injections - even if people aren't freaked out by them, you always end up having to answer a load of annoying questions about what you can and can't eat or what someone's nan with diabetes does.


----------



## everydayupsanddowns (Mar 10, 2014)

When I read this story on Twitter it was the 'had been asked many times before' line that really struck me.

I'm always an 'inject in public' person with occasional 'popping somewhere quieter' moments. Very hard to know here who was being reasonable and who was being belligerent, but whichever way round it was I sense more than a little history running up to this particular event.


----------



## newbs (Mar 10, 2014)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> When I read this story on Twitter it was the 'had been asked many times before' line that really struck me.
> 
> I'm always an 'inject in public' person with occasional 'popping somewhere quieter' moments. Very hard to know here who was being reasonable and who was being belligerent, but whichever way round it was I sense more than a little history running up to this particular event.



Maybe this guy was after some publicity. 

I inject in public most of the time, at the restaurant table etc., but always discreetly and if I feel it cannot be done there discreetly I will find somewhere else (not the loos though).  I do agree, however, that injecting with a syringe cannot be done discreetly and therefore the landlady was being reasonable in offering him a quieter area to do so.


----------



## AlisonM (Mar 10, 2014)

It does come down to etiquette for most of us doesn't it? I'm aware that others may be upset if they see me doing the jab and will try to keep it out of sight as far as possible, even if I don't hide the pen itself. I just don't see how you can be discrete using a syringe.

I get the notion this guy may be a 'militant' diabetic on a crusade, but I reckon he's doing more harm than good, maybe he's from the 'no publicity is bad publicity' school. I don't suppose we'll ever know the whole story for sure.


----------



## bev (Mar 10, 2014)

AlisonM said:


> I get the notion this guy may be a 'militant' diabetic on a crusade, but I reckon he's doing more harm than good, maybe he's from the 'no publicity is bad publicity' school. I don't suppose we'll ever know the whole story for sure.



Hi AlisonM,

I think you may be right in terms of not knowing the whole story and sometimes the media do like to add thier bit on dont they!

I think its worth noting that the parents appear to have a different view from the person with diabetes on this issue. Perhaps we are coming at this from a different angle. When your child is diagnosed you make all efforts to explain that their life doesnt have to be 'different' from their friends and that we will do everything we can to make diabetes fit into their lives rather than the other way around and all those sort of supportive responses. Can you then imagine how it might look for a child to need to inject in a restaurant to be told that they have to then do this somewhere else? This is giving them mixed messages and could be really confusing for a child/young person coming to terms with this diagnosis - which remember 'isnt going to change their lives'....you only have to read some stories on here to know that teenagers in particular can and do rebel with their diabetes and for some its a bonus if they inject once a day let alone bolus for a meal! If I were the parent of a young person who was struggling like this I would thank my lucky stars that they injected at all let alone at the table! Can you imagine asking a non-compliant teenager to inject in another room in case it upsets others? Feeding their negative views of this condition and making things more difficult than they need be really isnt the way forward and gives a completely different message to the one us parents are busy trying to advocate. 

Yes if your an adult and you have had diabetes a long time you are more likely to understand and accommodate other people in situations like this but a teenager or a child struggling and being made to feel different by hiding their condition isnt a healthy way forward and could create long-term psychological problems and even denial. 

Alex has always felt allright injecting wherever he is - so we are lucky that he doesnt have any issues surrounding this - but lots of teenagers dont and its them that we need to support and encourage and if we are telling them that what they *need* to do to stay alive on a daily basis is so repugnant to others that they have to do it behind closed doors then we are not doing our job properly as parents in my opinion.Bev


----------



## Pumper_Sue (Mar 10, 2014)

> Yes if your an adult and you have had diabetes a long time you are more likely to understand and accommodate other people in situations like this but a teenager or a child struggling and being made to feel different by hiding their condition isnt a healthy way forward and could create long-term psychological problems and even denial.



Bev if an adult had had diabetes for a long time then more than likely they had it as a child 
I was never ever left out of anything as a child. I was treated exactly the same as my brothers and all our friends.

But I have never ever given a public display of injecting my insulin and never sat at the table with a needle and syringe waving it in front of anyone else.
It was always accepted that my insulin was given in the kitchen and not at the table. ( I was diagnosed at 4 ½)
I have never had any hang ups about it I just respect other peoples feelings.

IMHO the more you try to prove to a child he/she is normal the more they are going to think they are different, even though they are not.


----------



## HERE TINTIN (Mar 10, 2014)

bev said:


> Hi AlisonM,
> 
> I think you may be right in terms of not knowing the whole story and sometimes the media do like to add thier bit on dont they!
> 
> ...



I agree , my mother was a crazy diabetic who didnt believe in it. I clearly remember as a daibetic child being told never to inject in front of anyone and in fact going on a school trip and not being allowed to take my injection with me as it would be too embarasing for me to inject in front of anybody. I was taught not to tell people about it, it was so bad. By the time I was a teenager I barely injected and this carried on until I was 19 all beacuase I was so ashemed and if out ashamed to inject in front of people. I sat by my mothers bedside for 3 weeks whilst she was in a diabetic coma with heart and kidney failure when I was 29 years old, it was terrible. I have now chronic complications because of not injecting all those years, if my daughter ever became diabetic I would have her loud and proud and encourage to inject whenever and wherever, insulin saves your life and thats all that matters at the end of the day. Sorry subject maybe touches a raw nerve with me


----------



## bev (Mar 10, 2014)

Pumper_Sue said:


> Bev if an adult had had diabetes for a long time then more than likely they had it as a child Yes Sue your right - but the point I was making was that now you have lived with diabetes you have learnt to accept it and with an adult and more mature view you are now able to make difference choices than you would when first diagnosed.
> I was never ever left out of anything as a child. I was treated exactly the same as my brothers and all our friends. Great thats how it should be.
> 
> But I have never ever given a public display of injecting my insulin and never sat at the table with a needle and syringe waving it in front of anyone else. Neither has Alex and I wouldnt encourage him to 'wave it in front of anyone' we do things discreetly.
> ...


 Not trying to prove anything to Alex - just showing him that diabetes doesnt need to hold him back or get in his way of enjoying life and he is happy and well-adjustedBev


----------



## bev (Mar 10, 2014)

I agree , my mother was a crazy diabetic who didnt believe in it. I clearly remember as a daibetic child being told never to inject in front of anyone and in fact going on a school trip and not being allowed to take my injection with me as it would be too embarasing for me to inject in front of anybody. I was taught not to tell people about it, it was so bad. By the time I was a teenager I barely injected and this carried on until I was 19 all beacuase I was so ashemed and if out ashamed to inject in front of people. I sat by my mothers bedside for 3 weeks whilst she was in a diabetic coma with heart and kidney failure when I was 29 years old, it was terrible. I have now chronic complications because of not injecting all those years, if my daughter ever became diabetic I would have her loud and proud and encourage to inject whenever and wherever, insulin saves your life and thats all that matters at the end of the day. Sorry subject maybe touches a raw nerve with me 

Hi Tintin,

I am so sorry to read this - it just makes me so sad for you - and for your mum tooYou have managed to 'prove' my point perfectly - even though I wish you didnt have to! Being taught that your condition is something to be ashamed of really wasnt helpful and obviously we dont know why your mum felt this way. Perhaps she had also been taught to deal with her diabetes this way? There used to be such a lot of ignorance around diabetes in years gone by and something that causes great sadness to me both as a mum and as someone who understands what diabetes is capable of in terms of complications. I also know someone with a child who tells the child 'not to make a fuss when hypo as you dont want to bring attention to us'! Unbelievable in my opinion and not a healthy way of dealing with diabetes - especially in a child! 

I am sure your mum didnt realise the effects of her management around your diabetes - no mother would deliberately hurt their child and feel certain that if she could have her time over again knowing how things are for you she would be hugely supportive and deal with it all very differently. I do understand why your angry about this - anyone would be - I am just sorry that no-one stepped in for you as a child to give you the treatment you needed and deservedBev


----------



## HERE TINTIN (Mar 10, 2014)

Thank you Bev, you are very kind. I am afraid I never spoke to my mum about her diabetes or mine properly as until the day she died (She did not survive the coma when I was 29) she still would not acknowledge it was a harmful disease. I had to learn as an adult how to control it with the help of the diabetic clinc. She didnt like me to attend appts either, so apparently I slipped through a net as a child. All I know is she was 21 when she became a diabetic and 56 when she died. So sorry if I sound angry, I think facing a double tx is causing me some  anxt about the past and unfortunately this thread brought it out again. TinTin


----------



## Redkite (Mar 10, 2014)

Absolutely agree with Bev and Tintin.  Perhaps I am a bit militant about it - but you get like that when you find metaphorical doors starting to close in your child's face!  Having type 1 is not my son's fault, and he should never be faced with a situation where he is made to feel awkward, ashamed or abnormal for having to do a fingerprick or injection.  And if it turns into a "show and tell", that's all to the good for a bit of public educating


----------



## bev (Mar 10, 2014)

HERE TINTIN said:


> Thank you Bev, you are very kind. I am afraid I never spoke to my mum about her diabetes or mine properly as until the day she died (She did not survive the coma when I was 29) she still would not acknowledge it was a harmful disease. I had to learn as an adult how to control it with the help of the diabetic clinc. She didnt like me to attend appts either, so apparently I slipped through a net as a child. All I know is she was 21 when she became a diabetic and 56 when she died. So sorry if I sound angry, I think facing a double tx is causing me some  anxt about the past and unfortunately this thread brought it out again. TinTin



Hi TinTin,

My heart breaks reading this - its so very sad and it could have had such a different outcome for your mum and you56 is just so young and losing her must have been such a shock given that you shared the same condition. Perhaps you may never know why your mum was like this about your diabetes - but alarm bells are ringing that maybe she was also taught to deal with it this way and maybe thats the only way she knew which is also very sad. I am sorry that this has touched a nerve but really not surprised that it has - very understandable. Obviously I hope your daughter never gets diabetes and wouldnt wish it on her or anyone - but if she did - from what you have said - she would be in good hands with a wonderful supportive mum like you and that is what being a parent is all about - supporting loving and encouraging to make sure your child goes into the world a happy healthy and productive human being - you cant do better than thatBev


----------

