# Carbs v sugars element of food



## Sue56 (May 11, 2022)

I am type 2 (metformin and gliclazide) and when I was first told 'what to eat' by my nurse, I was told look on labels and if sugars are under 5 that would be preferable.
My numbers are all over the place at the moment in so far as 3 hours after eating I can be 11 to 15. I eat very little overall and focus on healthy items, my plates are veg, protein etc, buy my failing is potatoes and bread. I can have a very small brown roll and I go high. I have cut down on both but my question is this....should I be looking at carb values rather than sugars? Example: small slice of white bread 13.1carbs of which 0.8 sugars, crumpet 19.4g carbs of which sugars 1.1.  From my nurses instruction these sugar numbers are so low I would not expect my numbers to be 15 after 3 hours!
I am wondering if my medication might need increasing. ( I walk 2 to 3 miles daily and am quite fit overall)
Thanks


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## Leadinglights (May 11, 2022)

Welcome to the forum
Oh dear what misleading information you were given. It is the TOTAL carbohydrate you need to be looking at, the 'sugar' is somewhat irrelevant as it is all carbs that convert to glucose. The number you need to look at are 13,1g for the bread and 19.4g for the crumpet. 
I think if you take the total carb value into your calculation and make your decision as to whether to have it or not or find a lower carb alternative you will see better blood glucose levels. You should be testing after 2 hours not 3 as that is the benchmark for deciding if something is tolerated or not as you would be looking for no more than 2-3mmol/l increase from your before meal test.


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## Drummer (May 11, 2022)

@Sue56 You have already found out that what you are eating is wrong for you.
With the Gliclazide at least you have been provided with a means to test, as you can go hypo - but for most type 2 diabetics all that is required is the information that they can't deal with carbohydrate and so they should cut down the amount they eat.
Sugars and starches are carbohydrates, and become glucose in the blood after digestion. The amount of carbohydrate in potatoes and bread is obviously more than you can cope with, so choosing lower carb options would most likely mean that you see lower glucose tests.


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## trophywench (May 11, 2022)

Anything with flour in it will be high carbohydrate - hence pasta, pastry, bread of all nationalities will be.  Root veg (including spuds even though they're tubers not roots)  higher carb than green veg.  Legumes (that's peas and beans) can be a bit high too  - they affect different people differently.

And that is the puzzle - everything anyone eats, affects all of us differently - so we each have to find out how whatever, affects ME !


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## Sue56 (May 11, 2022)

Thank you all, that puts a different complexion on things.  I know starches arent good for diabetics and I have cut down on them, but I am struggling with breakfast.  I thought my small slice of toast would not impact so greatly as I thought a crumpet wouldnt but I got a surprise.  I left cereals as, although the sugar content was low, I was under the impression it was the milk that pushed my numbers up.  What do others have for breakfast?  I just want a light breakfast as opposed to bacon and eggs!


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## Sue56 (May 11, 2022)

Further to my earlier post I have been reading about carbs and their values.  If I was to count my carbs what daily allowance should I be looking at?


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## Drummer (May 11, 2022)

Sue56 said:


> Thank you all, that puts a different complexion on things.  I know starches arent good for diabetics and I have cut down on them, but I am struggling with breakfast.  I thought my small slice of toast would not impact so greatly as I thought a crumpet wouldnt but I got a surprise.  I left cereals as, although the sugar content was low, I was under the impression it was the milk that pushed my numbers up.  What do others have for breakfast?  I just want a light breakfast as opposed to bacon and eggs!


Anything made with grain is going to be about 2/3rds carbohydrate - the milk does add a little but not all that much. 
I can't help with the breakfasts - I only have two meals a day and my first meal is often steak with onions or mushrooms, or a pork chop. Sometimes in the summer I have salad and tuna or salmon.


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## Leadinglights (May 11, 2022)

Sue56 said:


> Further to my earlier post I have been reading about carbs and their values.  If I was to count my carbs what daily allowance should I be looking at?


A good starting point for many people is no more than 130g per day but evened out between meals rather than 2 meals with not many then lots in the other one. Some people do go less but as mentioned be careful because of the gliclazide.
Good breakfast is Greek yoghurt with berries and may be seeds and nuts or a small portion of a low sugar cereal for the crunch so All bran or granola. I discovered Keto Hana granola, a bit pricy but very low carb and really nice.


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## Drummer (May 11, 2022)

Sue56 said:


> Further to my earlier post I have been reading about carbs and their values.  If I was to count my carbs what daily allowance should I be looking at?


It all depends on what you can eat and still have normal numbers. It varies quite a bit - and I eat low carb to maintain my weight these days.


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## TonyL (May 11, 2022)

Hi Sue - like you I listened to my diabetic nurses and having cut out "false foods" ie sugar laden stuff and white flour based foods like white bread, ordinary pasta and white rice I saw my weight and HbA1C drop markedly. 
Looking at sugar only I was confident that I was doing well and according to my A1c levels I was. 
However, as others have pointed out, it's not just sugars but all carbs not including the indigestible fibre ones. 
I was thus inspired to start testing myself and found that any meal containing more than 45-50g of carbs stopped me from regaining normal bs levels 2 hours after meals.
I was shocked. 
Others have written that 60g per meal was ok with them and so, agreeing with prior posters, it's clear that individuals have different food triggers. 
In my case I started altering my meals again from the so-called healthy options of wholemeal rice, pasta, bread etc to not eating rice or pasta at all and limiting my bread. 
For breakfast I eat 20g of porridge oats with greek yoghurt and chia seeds (soaked with a little overnight in the fridge) - greek yoghurt and fruir such as blueberries or raspberries is nice too (Sainsbury frozen fruits are lush for this). 
Anyway using this website https://www.fatsecret.co.uk/calories-nutrition/ I ploughed through all my regular meals and got them all below 40g using cauliflower rice and the like, (I'm still looking for a good pasta substitute) and stopped my blood sugars from spiking. 
So for me it's not a daily allowance of carbs but how many you have in one go. I hope this is helpful.


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## Ian68 (May 11, 2022)

Sue56 said:


> Thank you all, that puts a different complexion on things.  I know starches arent good for diabetics and I have cut down on them, but I am struggling with breakfast.  I thought my small slice of toast would not impact so greatly as I thought a crumpet wouldnt but I got a surprise.  I left cereals as, although the sugar content was low, I was under the impression it was the milk that pushed my numbers up.  What do others have for breakfast?  I just want a light breakfast as opposed to bacon and eggs!


My go to breakfast is natural no added sugar greek yogurt with a few berries thrown on.


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## Leadinglights (May 11, 2022)

TonyL said:


> Hi Sue - like you I listened to my diabetic nurses and having cut out "false foods" ie sugar laden stuff and white flour based foods like white bread, ordinary pasta and white rice I saw my weight and HbA1C drop markedly.
> Looking at sugar only I was confident that I was doing well and according to my A1c levels I was.
> However, as others have pointed out, it's not just sugars but all carbs not including the indigestible fibre ones.
> I was thus inspired to start testing myself and found that any meal containing more than 45-50g of carbs stopped me from regaining normal bs levels 2 hours after meals.
> ...


Black bean or edamame bean pasta is good, pretty low carb approx 15g per 100g dry wt, I tend to a 25g dry wt portion which is enough I find.


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## TonyL (May 11, 2022)

Thanks - I'll see where I can buy some from round here.


Leadinglights said:


> Black bean or edamame bean pasta is good, pretty low carb approx 15g per 100g dry wt, I tend to a 25g dry wt portion which is enough I find.


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## Leadinglights (May 11, 2022)

TonyL said:


> Thanks - I'll see where I can buy some from round here.


Look in the free from section of the supermarket, otherwise Amazon. I have occasionally seen it in ALDI


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## TonyL (May 11, 2022)

Leadinglights said:


> Look in the free from section of the supermarket, otherwise Amazon. I have occasionally seen it in ALDI


It looks like a field trip is on for tomorrow - our Aldi doesn't have it but there are a few options in a clump not too far away - I'd be tempted to buy from Amazon but their best deal is for 6 packs and as I've never tasted it it's lot to chuck out if I baulk. Does it taste anything like ordinary or wholemeal pasta?


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## Leadinglights (May 11, 2022)

TonyL said:


> It looks like a field trip is on for tomorrow - our Aldi doesn't have it but there are a few options in a clump not too far away - I'd be tempted to buy from Amazon but their best deal is for 6 packs and as I've never tasted it it's lot to chuck out if I baulk. Does it taste anything like ordinary or wholemeal pasta?


More like wholemeal but only needs about 5mins to cook, as with most pasta it really is just a carrier for the tasty sauce.


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## Drummer (May 12, 2022)

I was just thinking about breakfast, and decided against the pork chop, it is warm already so I think I will have eggs, mozzarella cheese and salad. I might even go out and eat it in the garden.


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## TonyL (May 15, 2022)

Leadinglights said:


> Look in the free from section of the supermarket, otherwise Amazon. I have occasionally seen it in ALDI


I bought a packet of the Edamame Spaghetti yesterday (nobody sells it here in Spennydorm (Spennymoor), we had to travel abroad to Bish Vegas (Bishop Auckland) to get it from Holland and Barrett) and we tried it with a Carbonara recipe which is probably a good challenge for it.
My good lady decided she'd try it too and we both thought the outcome was delicious. I'm so pleased with this as it's a spot on substitute so thanks for the recommendation.


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## Dave_Z1a (May 15, 2022)

@Sue56  In my opinion put sugars out of your mind, its the carb values you need to watch. Look out for the word net carbs as well, i.e. something can appear carby but the net result is that it isn't, i.e. the body ignores the item because it can't digest it. Not all manufacturers put this on their lables and it has been dismissed as misleading by a number of diabetic organisations. I have done a lot of experimentation with this, you see it a lot on keto friendly products which although show a particular carb figure the net figure is lower. By testing before and after I am quite comfortable that the net carb info works for me very well.
Breakfast....
I get delivered each month a low carb bread replacement, its 1 carb a slice and its very good, if you were not told you would not know its not normal brown bread, its that good.
A lot of my meals include this and the rolls as a substitute for bread and potatoes.
So I have for breakfast, (not the whole list at once! lol!)........
Eggs, poached, boiled, scrambled on toast or with mushrooms and bacon sometimes or the full english. Scrambled egg variation, add chopped mushrooms or ham.
Omelette plain, or cheese or with filling
Bacon and egg sandwich
Avocados with toast
Kvarg yoghurts vanilla ones are the lowest in carbs but all very low, sometimes eat only half of one.
Toast with peanut butter or thin layer of low carb jam/marmalade or the real thing.
Australian seeded cracker biscuits, bout same size as riveta ones, very yummy with butter and cheese, or pate or marmite or ham etc. 
Small amounts of fruit, strawberries, melon, kiwi, apple but only if I have had say poached egg on toast, eat this last, has less effect and is hidden by what you have just eaten.
Continental breakfasts - cheese, ham with low carb bread or crackers.
Keto low carb porridge is pretty good, has fruit and cinnamon in it.
Some lucky ones can tolerate wheatabix or shreddies - test and see, your blood suggar monitor is your friend! 
Good luck!


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## trophywench (May 15, 2022)

Crumpets are shockingly high carb items, especially considering the flipping holes in em!


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## silentsquirrel (May 15, 2022)

Dave_Z1a said:


> @Sue56  In my opinion put sugars out of your mind, its the carb values you need to watch. Look out for the word net carbs as well, i.e. something can appear carby but the net result is that it isn't, i.e. the body ignores the item because it can't digest it. Not all manufacturers put this on their lables and it has been dismissed as misleading by a number of diabetic organisations. I have done a lot of experimentation with this, you see it a lot on keto friendly products which although show a particular carb figure the net figure is lower. By testing before and after I am quite comfortable that the net carb info works for me very well.
> Breakfast....
> I get delivered each month a low carb bread replacement, its 1 carb a slice and its very good, if you were not told you would not know its not normal brown bread, its that good.
> A lot of my meals include this and the rolls as a substitute for bread and potatoes.
> ...


"net carbs" is a term used by American products and websites, because they include FIBER (note the spelling) in their total carbs, so need to subtract it to get net carbs.  

In the UK, FIBRE is listed separately from carbs, so we do NOT subtract it to get net carbs - the total carbs figure is already "net".

If you are unsure if a website is USA or UK based, the clue is how they spell fibER/fibRE.


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## NotWorriedAtAll (May 15, 2022)

I found it was easier to make my own bread and other foods using alternative ingredients.  I hate shopping and I hate trawling through ingredients to constantly find something that makes my heart sink because there are other ingredients I want to avoid as well as high carbs and getting food that ticks all my boxes was almost impossible and would have become a full time job.

So I just buy ingredients and make my food myself.  I also hate complicated cooking and don't have much energy/patience to deal with long cooking so I use my microwave and pressure cooker and recipes that cook quickly and with minimum washing up because I don't have a dishwasher and I do have sensitive skin.

Making a good tasty very low carb bread is fairly easy with a bread maker.  I bought one after my diagnosis because it ended up paying for itself compared with the cost (and to me disappointment) of ready made low carb bread and mixes.

I have spent the last three years replicating high carb foods using low carb ingredients.
My latest triumph has been cheese and onion crisps.
I made them at last this week from celeriac and cheddar cheese powder and salt and a couple of other common keto ingredients:

These have fewer than 4g carbs for all the crisps shown.

I also worked out a recipe for a very low carb version of weetabix style breakfast bricks.

My favourite easy breakfast is a very low carb 'porridge' which I make by mixing a teaspoon of coconut flour, ground almonds, oat fibre, psyllium husk and a sprinkle of cinnamon and nutmeg and brown erythritol mixed with unsweetened almond milk and then microwave for a minute or so and after that stir in a spoonful of greek yoghurt.


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## TonyL (May 22, 2022)

NotWorriedAtAll said:


> I found it was easier to make my own bread and other foods using alternative ingredients.  I hate shopping and I hate trawling through ingredients to constantly find something that makes my heart sink because there are other ingredients I want to avoid as well as high carbs and getting food that ticks all my boxes was almost impossible and would have become a full time job.
> 
> So I just buy ingredients and make my food myself.  I also hate complicated cooking and don't have much energy/patience to deal with long cooking so I use my microwave and pressure cooker and recipes that cook quickly and with minimum washing up because I don't have a dishwasher and I do have sensitive skin.
> 
> ...


I'd love to know your recipe/method for the crisps - I crave Cheese and onion crisps


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## NotWorriedAtAll (May 23, 2022)

TonyL said:


> I'd love to know your recipe/method for the crisps - I crave Cheese and onion crisps


Very simple.
I buy cheddar cheese powder from Amazon and I have citric acid powder because I have been using it for years in my cooking - you can get that from Amazon too.  I mix a teaspoon of powder with less than a quarter teaspoon of citric acid and a quarter teaspoon of salt and then set it to one side.
use a potato peeler to 'peel' the celeriac into thin pieces.  When you have a decent pile wrap the rest of the celeriac with cling film very tightly and put in fridge - it will keep for ages and you can make crisps whenever you fancy some.

Then heat up light olive oil in a heavy based frying pan and just drop the pieces one at a time into the hot oil.
I have a chip basket over a bowl where I put them as they fry into deep golden brown.  I use a silicone tongs and turn them individually and pick them out as they cook.

Once they are all done. I put them in a plastic bag and tip the flavourings into it and shake and then put them on a plate to eat. Job done.  You can tweak the amount of powder/citric acid/salt according to your own taste.


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## TonyL (May 24, 2022)

NotWorriedAtAll said:


> Very simple.
> I buy cheddar cheese powder from Amazon and I have citric acid powder because I have been using it for years in my cooking - you can get that from Amazon too.  I mix a teaspoon of powder with less than a quarter teaspoon of citric acid and a quarter teaspoon of salt and then set it to one side.
> use a potato peeler to 'peel' the celeriac into thin pieces.  When you have a decent pile wrap the rest of the celeriac with cling film very tightly and put in fridge - it will keep for ages and you can make crisps whenever you fancy some.
> 
> ...


Thanks very much for this. I'm going to give it a go using your methodology and make a few potato ones for my good lady also. I can't wait


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## NotWorriedAtAll (May 24, 2022)

TonyL said:


> Thanks very much for this. I'm going to give it a go using your methodology and make a few potato ones for my good lady also. I can't wait


She'll be jealous - the celeriac ones usually turn out much tastier.  Just let them get a little bit browner than you would usually - test them as you go along to see how you like them best.


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## emmii (May 25, 2022)

Sue56 said:


> I am type 2 (metformin and gliclazide) and when I was first told 'what to eat' by my nurse, I was told look on labels and if sugars are under 5 that would be preferable.
> My numbers are all over the place at the moment in so far as 3 hours after eating I can be 11 to 15. I eat very little overall and focus on healthy items, my plates are veg, protein etc, buy my failing is potatoes and bread. I can have a very small brown roll and I go high. I have cut down on both but my question is this....should I be looking at carb values rather than sugars? Example: small slice of white bread 13.1carbs of which 0.8 sugars, crumpet 19.4g carbs of which sugars 1.1.  From my nurses instruction these sugar numbers are so low I would not expect my numbers to be 15 after 3 hours!
> I am wondering if my medication might need increasing. ( I walk 2 to 3 miles daily and am quite fit overall)
> Thanks


Hi, hope you don't mind me asking but do you know how many grams of carbs we are allowed per day?


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## Leadinglights (May 25, 2022)

emmii said:


> Hi, hope you don't mind me asking but do you know how many grams of carbs we are allowed per day?


It is all very much down to individual tolerance to carbohydrates and people will determine what suits them by testing the effect of their meals on blood glucose levels with a home testing blood glucose monitor. However if people are following a low carb regime then less than 130g per day is often their starting point but many do go lower. Somewhere between 50 and 100g per day but it can also depend on what if any medication people are taking.


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## NotWorriedAtAll (May 26, 2022)

Leadinglights said:


> It is all very much down to individual tolerance to carbohydrates and people will determine what suits them by testing the effect of their meals on blood glucose levels with a home testing blood glucose monitor. However if people are following a low carb regime then less than 130g per day is often their starting point but many do go lower. Somewhere between 50 and 100g per day but it can also depend on what if any medication people are taking.


I have been aiming for 20g of carbs per day for the last three years with the occasional day of going up to around 40g.  This has meant I have been able to maintain good to excellent control of my blood sugars without meds.

I find this fairly easy to achieve and maintain but I have spent the last three years doing a lot of research and experimentation with alternative ingredients.  I think it is easier for people today than it was three years ago and it will improve even further as more keto products and ingredients become easier to buy. I can now buy many ingredients from my local supermarket and the rest is on Amazon or can be bought elsewhere online.

I think very low carb bread and other food products will become more widespread and the prices will come down.


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