# Insomnia...



## Rosiecarmel (Mar 21, 2016)

...is a b*tch! Scuse my French!

Ive just come off another two week course of zopiclone and put on promethazine as usual because zopiclone is only to be used extremely short term. I felt so tired naturally today so I decided to not take any tablets tonight thinking I'd fall asleep naturally. Nope. I'm wide awake at 1:42 with my alarm set for 7:30 for uni. I actively gave up trying to sleep about an hour ago hoping this would trick my brain into being tired.

I have no idea what causes my insomnia as it's just come and gone for years. I used to think it coincided with me becoming unwell (mentally) but although this is long somewhat true, often it isn't as I have been very well for quite some time now yet Ive been unable to sleep for the past two weeks!

My doctor prescribes me sleeping pills and I rely solely on them to sleep for a few weeks or a few months then I'm able to sleep naturally again for months until it happens again. The longest I went was 8 months and it felt so good being able to sleep naturally.

Anyone else suffer with sleeping problems? I've tried all the "sleep hygiene" techniques (http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Insomnia/Pages/Prevention.aspx), sleep hypnosis tapes, relaxation tapes, herbal remedies 

Literally willing to try any new suggestions? I hate relying on drugs to sleep


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## Sally71 (Mar 21, 2016)

Ooh, not nice!  I used to have trouble sleeping, and my dad even worse.  The best piece of advice he ever gave me was, don't lie there worrying about not sleeping as that will make it worse, if it's that bad get up and do something until you feel tired.  He plays chess with a chess machine, or goes out for a drive, or transfers his video camera footage onto DVDs all in the small hours when he can't sleep!

I was never quite so bad, could never be bothered to get out of my nice warm bed, but used to try to think about nice things instead of worrying about not sleeping.  I've sort of solved the problem now by staying up ridiculously late every night so that I can't help but be tired; it's backfired a bit though because half the time I sleep on the settee during the evening and then wake up again!

Don't know if any of that helps, but I hope you find a solution


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## Matt Cycle (Mar 21, 2016)

I have had issues on occasions in the past.  Yes, it's not good. 

Exercise can sometimes help.  I know we all have work/study and all the other things going on in our lives but it doesn't have to be running a marathon or hiking up a mountain.  A simple walk in the evening can help clear the mind and make you more relaxed.  Even in cities there are often canal paths or other walks so you don't have trudge alongside busy roads.

Hope you can get it sorted.


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## Copepod (Mar 21, 2016)

Another vote for exercise, definitely in daylight. In fact, seeing a sunset while walking can act as a prompt to feel drowsy.

Personally, I find leaving speech radio on quiet helps me to sleep when I need help. Radio 4 turns into World Service overnight. If that fails, so that I can't sleep and hear anything, it's usually something unusual that isn't covered on regular radio, that's a bonus and better than lying awake mulling over thoughts.


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## Adrasteia (Mar 21, 2016)

Another vote for exercise, outside if possible! Being indoors all day definitely messes with my sleep.

Also, I read a study somewhere that said all of the sleep 'aids' and techniques can actually have the opposite effect - you're putting a focus on sleeping by even doing them, and being aware of how much you are(n't) sleeping keeps you up! 

As hard as it may be, have you tried simply not thinking about it? When I have a bad bout, I make sure I can't see any clocks, or anything that shows me the time in the evenings, and I do whatever I feel like. It often takes a while, but eventually I stop thinking about sleeping all the time, and then it happens!


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## Rosiecarmel (Mar 21, 2016)

I go to the gym three times a week but I might try going for a gentle walk when the sun is setting and hope that it helps 

Ive always assumed that I like absolutely silence when I sleep mainly because I've thought that a radio on may keep me awake but it's worth giving it a go!

Thanks for your suggestions


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## Alan.tnh (Mar 21, 2016)

I have suffered with sleep problems and last year got some counselling, although I have suffered with not sleeping my big issue was sleep walking, very worrying. My wife first noticed it, and it became very frequent 3 or 4 times a week, I ended up setting up camera's around the house to see what I was up too. One of the best pieces of advice I received was to create a routine including some exercise eating at the same time, last drink at the same time, bed at the same time. It certainly helped for me.


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## Rosiecarmel (Mar 21, 2016)

Did you manage to sort out your sleepwalking? Did you get up to anything interesting?!

Ive not actually had any counselling for my sleep. My GP has never mentioned it though I have read a lot about CBT for insomnia. Did you find it helped?


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## Alan.tnh (Mar 21, 2016)

yes its been much better recently, I suppose the interesting part is that I'm always naked no matter how I go to bed, (sorry for putting that image out there but just answering the q) the other thing was we have a downstairs toilet and we keep pictures of friends and family on the walls, it was quite obvious that I'm having conversation's with them but not comprehensible ones, the main picture I seem to focus on is my mother in law who passed away in 2007.
For my counselling I took that on myself and went private, our discussions were great  it's amazing how you can open up and be so honest to someone you don't know. And this is how you get the most from it. I would recommend it I know it helped me, and the routine part although it sounds simple, it does help you convince the mind its the time to switch off rather than what happened to me that come 9 o'clock I would start to worry if it would sleep that night should I stay up watch a film, or have a hot chocolate and try to go up early. it takes those out of the equation. Good luck I know its painful tho


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## Caroline (Mar 21, 2016)

I sometimes have problems sleeping but they don't last too long. On the nights when I can't sleep I get up out of bed and find something relaxing to do. My current relaxation technique is colouring in. It takes my mind off sleeping and is quiet so no one else is disturbed. I have also used reading,  knitting, relaxing music to which I draw the things that pop into my mind, writing down all the things running through my mind and tai chi. Not all for everyone but they work for me.


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## Carolg (Mar 21, 2016)

If I can't switch off I visualise white light, like you used to get when telly ended. I sometimes say in my head "white light, white light"...very original and I think I bore myself to sleep. It certainly helps me focus on sleep rather than work or other worries. Hope you find a way to get some zzz's


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## KookyCat (Mar 21, 2016)

I didn't sleep more than an hour a night for 18 months after diagnosis, but a lot of that was insulin related.  I sleep better now but not consistently.  My best tip is an Epsom salt bath just before bed, it's utterly delightful and very very relaxing, if a bath isn't an option dunk your feet in warm Epsom salted water.  Magnesium (which is what Epsom salt is) is very good for sleep, and there's a lot of research that suggests that lots of insomniacs are magnesium deficient.  The best source of magnesium is sea food and soil (hmm nice tasty spoonful of soil!) so root veg are good but intensive farming reduces magnesium in soil so the theory is we're becoming more easily deficient.  I find relaxation is the real key though, so turn the lights out about an hour before bed, something soothing on the radio (radio 4 is usually just boring enough for me ), if I'm really hyped I put some lavender oil in aloe Vera gel (it makes a rather nice body cream when mixed with oil does aloe Vera) and slather it all over.  There's also a lot of meditation techniques you can try, but they take a bit of practice, although anything repetitive will likely work.  So count back from 1000 in your head and see how far you get.  It surprising how calming that it because it's totally absorbing.  Hope you get it sorted, it nearly sent me insane, so I know how horrid it is.


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## Lindarose (Mar 22, 2016)

Hi Rosie My daughter and sister both suffer with insomnia. The best remedy they use is audio books My sister has the the James Herriot vet books and never gets to the end as always falls asleep while listening! There are so many different ones out there and you can also apparently change the narrators voice to one you find soothing. 
Hope that helps


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## robert@fm (Mar 22, 2016)

Maybe someone should do an audiobook edition of _One Million Random Numbers_ (yes, that's a real print book).  That would probably send anyone to sleep.


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## Copepod (Mar 22, 2016)

Audio books have much the same effect as Radio 4 / World Service. Depends on whether you want something that lasts for length of a CD or something that doesn't end.


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## Rosiecarmel (Mar 23, 2016)

KookyCat said:


> Magnesium (which is what Epsom salt is) is very good for sleep, and there's a lot of research that suggests that lots of insomniacs are magnesium deficient.



My doctor told me years ago I was deficient in magnesium but said it was mild deficiency so don't need to worry so it's very interesting that it's related to sleep! I completely forgot about it until you just mentioned It. I may speak to my doc about this! 

Tried radio 4 last night but I just lay awake listening to it instead of being able to shut down. Will give it another go tonight though.

I enjoy those adult colouring books when I'm feeling stressed so will also try that tonight


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## casey (Mar 23, 2016)

Rosiecarmel said:


> ...is a b*tch! Scuse my French!
> 
> Ive just come off another two week course of zopiclone and put on promethazine as usual because zopiclone is only to be used extremely short term. I felt so tired naturally today so I decided to not take any tablets tonight thinking I'd fall asleep naturally. Nope. I'm wide awake at 1:42 with my alarm set for 7:30 for uni. I actively gave up trying to sleep about an hour ago hoping this would trick my brain into being tired.
> 
> ...




Hi  Rosie caramel
my psychiatrist prescribed Zopiclone 7.5mg for me about 2 years ago. He has never followed this up, and after reading, on your thread, that they are only supposed to be used for extremely short time, I am rather worried now. Have you any idea why the are not supposed to be used long term please. My prescribing psychiatrist is no longer at my hospital.


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## Rosiecarmel (Mar 23, 2016)

casey said:


> Hi  Rosie caramel
> my psychiatrist prescribed Zopiclone 7.5mg for me about 2 years ago. He has never followed this up, and after reading, on your thread, that they are only supposed to be used for extremely short time, I am rather worried now. Have you any idea why the are not supposed to be used long term please. My prescribing psychiatrist is no longer at my hospital.



Hi casey, the NHS choices website states that zopiclone should be used for a maximum of four weeks. NICE guidance also states it should be for a very short time. Apparently this is because the body becomes so reliant on it that it'll become less effective. It is also psychologically addictive. You definitely should be on it for two years. If I were you I'd speak to your doctor or a pharmacist about it. I get 7.5mg prescribed to get over the worst patches of my insomnia then they move me to 50mg promethazine as it is much less addictive and better for you

"Z–drugs are a newer type of medicine that work in a similar way to benzodiazepines and are similarly effective. They include zaleplon, zolpidem and zopiclone.

As with benzodiazepines, long-term treatment with Z–drugs isn't normally recommended because they can become less effective over time and some people become dependent on them.

They're usually only prescribed for a maximum of two to four weeks."  http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Insomnia/Pages/Treatment.aspx


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## casey (Mar 24, 2016)

Rosiecarmel said:


> Hi casey, the NHS choices website states that zopiclone should be used for a maximum of four weeks. NICE guidance also states it should be for a very short time. Apparently this is because the body becomes so reliant on it that it'll become less effective. It is also psychologically addictive. You definitely should be on it for two years. If I were you I'd speak to your doctor or a pharmacist about it. I get 7.5mg prescribed to get over the worst patches of my insomnia then they move me to 50mg promethazine as it is much less addictive and better for you
> 
> "Z–drugs are a newer type of medicine that work in a similar way to benzodiazepines and are similarly effective. They include zaleplon, zolpidem and zopiclone.
> 
> ...




Hi Rosiecarmel and thank you for the helpful information. Deep down I know that I should be speaking to my doctor, but I am half afraid to in case he stops prescribing the Zopiclone for me, then I will not be able to sleep and I see bad things at night ( I have Schizoaffective disorder ). I did have a look on a messageboard for people that take Zopiclone and a lot of the members say they take up to 6 zopiclone a night and have done for 10 years+, with no side effects at all. Obviously I know this is not right or good, but I am scared to see my doctor, because I don't know what he might do and I really need to be able to sleep at night to keep the hallucinations and voices away.


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## Rosiecarmel (Mar 24, 2016)

casey said:


> Hi Rosiecarmel and thank you for the helpful information. Deep down I know that I should be speaking to my doctor, but I am half afraid to in case he stops prescribing the Zopiclone for me, then I will not be able to sleep and I see bad things at night ( I have Schizoaffective disorder ). I did have a look on a messageboard for people that take Zopiclone and a lot of the members say they take up to 6 zopiclone a night and have done for 10 years+, with no side effects at all. Obviously I know this is not right or good, but I am scared to see my doctor, because I don't know what he might do and I really need to be able to sleep at night to keep the hallucinations and voices away.



I understand how scared you must be feeling. I take promethazine instead of the zopiclone once I feel better and find it takes me longer to drift off but it still works! Maybe speak to a pharmacist instead first as they're the experts on medication but can't take you off it!


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## Lindarose (Mar 24, 2016)

I understand your fears casey as my daughter has been taking zopiclone for over a year. She dreads the reviews in case they are stopped But at her last review the doctor said he was happy for her to continue as they work for her and she can function well. So if you do have a review it may well be OK as its always an individual decision.


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