# Can a type 2 Diabetic become type 1



## Victor Fleming (Mar 20, 2017)

Hi All, I am new here, but have been type 2 for nearly five years now. My question concerns the two types of diabetes and if someone with type 2 can transition to type 1 diabetes ?

I have been reading online (mostly from the US) and the information is conflicting. I have read that people who are type 1 diabetics are born with type 1 diabetes, this puzzled me a little bit as my grandfather who was type 1 was not diagnosed with it until he was in his late 30's. 

It also states that a type 2 diabetic can not transition to type 1 diabetes ?

If anyone knows of any links to conclusive research on this I would appreciate those links so I can read up on these scenario's. Thanks.........


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## Redkite (Mar 20, 2017)

No.  The two types have different causes.

Type 1 diabetes is caused by the body's immune system destroying the beta cells in the pancreas, so that no insulin is produced.  People with type 1 must take insulin by injection or pump infusion or they will die.

Type 2 is caused by insulin resistance (mainly).  Some people with type 2 will eventually require insulin injections due to their pancreas becoming unable to keep up with demand (due to increasing insulin resistance), but this makes them "type 2 on insulin", not type 1.


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## Pumper_Sue (Mar 20, 2017)

Unless misdiagnosed then type2 is type2 and can not change into type1  A type2 can be insulin dependant though and still type2 .

Type1 diabetes is an autoimmune condition and all it takes is something to trigger the autoimmune response and thus you have type1 diabetes. Age is no barrier


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## Ljc (Mar 20, 2017)

Hi Victor.  Their is so much misinformation out there.  
We have a number of people on here diagnosed T1 as Adults.


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## Andy HB (Mar 20, 2017)

I agree with all the previous replies.

Andy


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## Victor Fleming (Mar 20, 2017)

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my question. Just for clarity with those who suffer with type 1, is it something that you are born with or can it arrive at anytime. The reason I ask is my grandfather was diagnosed type 1 at 37 years of age, does that mean he lived with it for 37 years without actually knowing he was type 1 or can type 1 appear due to pancreatic issues and deterioration as you get older.


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## Redkite (Mar 20, 2017)

Victor Fleming said:


> Thank you for taking the time to respond to my question. Just for clarity with those who suffer with type 1, is it something that you are born with or can it arrive at anytime. The reason I ask is my grandfather was diagnosed type 1 at 37 years of age, does that mean he lived with it for 37 years without actually knowing he was type 1 or can type 1 appear due to pancreatic issues and deterioration as you get older.



Nobody is born with type 1 - that's just media ignorance!  You are perhaps born with a genetic predisposition to autoimmune diseases, one of which is type 1.  It isn't yet fully understood what triggers the autoimmune process, probably exposure to a virus or environmental triggers.  My son was 4 when he developed type 1.


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## Northerner (Mar 20, 2017)

Victor Fleming said:


> Thank you for taking the time to respond to my question. Just for clarity with those who suffer with type 1, is it something that you are born with or can it arrive at anytime. The reason I ask is my grandfather was diagnosed type 1 at 37 years of age, does that mean he lived with it for 37 years without actually knowing he was type 1 or can type 1 appear due to pancreatic issues and deterioration as you get older.


You can be diagnosed with Type 1 at any time in your life - I was 49, and we have members here who were diagnosed in their 70s. What happens frequently is that an adult can be initially wrongly diagnosed as Type 2, but then given a correct diagnosis of Type1 when the Type 2 treatments clearly aren't working - this would become apparent fairly quickly. Type 1 is often associated with childhood partly because it is usually the only type affecting children, but this then leads people to think that if you are not a child you must be Type 2 - not the case.

Type 1 symptoms usually come on very quickly, and it is unknown what precipitates the change. You must have a genetic propensity i.e. you are born with the possibility of it happening, but it may never be 'triggered'


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## Robin (Mar 20, 2017)

I suppose that if you have a genetic propensity to develop Type 1, which as Northerner says, can come on at any age ( I was 51) there would be a chance of developing it even though you'd already developed Type 2. A sort of 'Double Diabetes' But the two are separate conditions, and it would most likely be coincidental.


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## Ralph-YK (Mar 20, 2017)

Being T1 one means no insulin and (as I understand it) we need insulin to live. So it's not possible to actually have the condition for very long without diagnoses.  People will not have had it for 37 or 49 years.  Unless there is a latent and an 'active' stage?


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## Dollypolly (Mar 20, 2017)

Someone needs to educate the nurse at surgery as this is what she said 
You are only T1 if under 21 and always T2 if over when I was dx in November last year. 
My mother was T2 insulin dependent after other treatments failed. 
My son is T1 and was dx at 21 will always be insulin dependent. 
I knew of 3 types T1,2 and gestional not lada or mody.
I said of older folks being dx with T1 and she dismissed it with it doesn't happen???? 
Now I know why I don't like or want to see her again along with a lot of other reasons


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## trophywench (Mar 20, 2017)

LOL @Dollypolly - Nursie Nightshade again!  She has a lot of clones.....

Amazingly, I was 22 when diagnosed, solely treated by insulin ever since, and does she want to report all my diabetes consultants past and present to the BMA or wherever for lying through their teeth for the last 45 years?  And shock horror probe, for letting the NHS pay for successive insulin pumps for me, which I'm not allowed to have on the NHS if I'm T2?

I can send her all their names, though I believe Professor Malins who was the first of these, may now be deceased !


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## trophywench (Mar 20, 2017)

There is a condition called 'Neonatal' diabetes, which as it suggests is only found in newborn babies - but it's RARE.  Extremely rare.

First thing they ever do to the poor little darlins almost after they've cleared their airways and checked their vital signs, the heelprick blood test - all sorts of things are tested as a matter of course including anaemia and BG.


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## DaveB (Mar 20, 2017)

Hi. As many others have said, T1 can come on at ANY age. I read once that someone in their 90s was diagnosed T1. You are not born with it but it can appear within a few years or in my nephew's case at age 21 and in my case 60+. I interpret T2 as having excess insulin due to insulin resistance and T1 as having a lack of it due to islet cell death. There are exceptions of course and I gather a very long-term badly managed T2 may suffer islet cell death and could therefore be considered a T2 transitioning to T1 but I'm not sure this is very common.


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## Ralph-YK (Mar 20, 2017)

DaveB said:


> and I gather a very long-term badly managed T2 may suffer islet cell death and could therefore be considered a T2 transitioning to T1 but I'm not sure this is very common.


The reason for the cell death matters. That is the definition of T1, not the actual lack of insulin, as I understanding. No insulin is a symptom.
T1 is auto immune. Now, if it's down to badly managed T2, then that is a different cause, so isn't T1, hasn't transitioned, and you're still T2.
Unless I've not understood


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## Jangles (Mar 20, 2017)

My .GP said when I was diagnosed that I had Type 2 , because, she said only children and young adults get type 1. It seems GPs are also mis informed!


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## SB2015 (Mar 20, 2017)

I did a training session for the GPS in our practice!
There is a lot of misinformation.  

My GP was confused when I told him that Steve Redgrave is Type 2.
"But he takes insulin so he must be Type1"!!!


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## Jangles (Mar 20, 2017)

Before I was diagnosed i thought GPs would be very informed about diabetes and I'm sure most are but it's a bit surprising to learn that even doctors get the information about the types wrong.


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## Dollypolly (Mar 20, 2017)

Have to remember the neonatal one @trophywench. Any mother would be devastated if it happened I'd imagine I know I would.
I know of the gestional only because I had it when pregnant 27 years ago again it was diet controlled back then. I still gave birth to a whopper of a boy 6 weeks early at nearly 10lbs god forbid I went to term with him. I was then told at my six week check I was no longer diabetic as I was no longer pregnant and wasn't told I could end up with diabetes later in life as it's been discovered you can.
A few medical folks need to go back to school more the ones that profess to know about your condition when in fact they don't or at least refer you to someone that does.


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## trophywench (Mar 20, 2017)

Well ever since a certain date Dolly - this century LOL - and sorry I do not recall when it started - anyone with GD is thereafter supposed to be invited to their GP surgery every 12 months to have another HbA1c test - to try and pick up any that do develop full blown D later, sooner rather than later.

I strongly suspect that a mother with an 11/12 month old baby might decide they are too busy and ignore the invitation though, not fully realising quite how at risk they are or how dangerous doing that might be for them.


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## robert@fm (Mar 20, 2017)

Some GPs (or practice nurses at any rate) seem to think that only T1s take insulin, as described in this thread.


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## Copepod (Mar 20, 2017)

You mention in that post that the nurse you saw wasn't a diabetes specialist, Robert@fm. Most nurses and doctors are doing the best they can to look after people with a huge range of conditions, not only diabetes in its many forms.


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## DaveB (Mar 21, 2017)

Ralph-YK said:


> The reason for the cell death matters. That is the definition of T1, not the actual lack of insulin, as I understanding. No insulin is a symptom.
> T1 is auto immune. Now, if it's down to badly managed T2, then that is a different cause, so isn't T1, hasn't transitioned, and you're still T2.
> Unless I've not understood


This is where understandings vary. First, why should the reason for cell death matter? Do we ask what caused a type of cancer; we label it and treat it. Can anyone really define auto-immune? Viruses can result in islet cell damage so perhaps the virus triggers an auto-immune response - we don't know. To define someone who has non-autoimmune cell death and who has low insulin as T2  is not helpful as in general T2 means excess insulin due to insulin resistance and is a completely difference condition from having low insulin, whatever the cause, and the treatment is different as well. Low insulin is virtually always treated finally with insulin injections.


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## Ralph-YK (Mar 22, 2017)

DaveB said:


> This is where understandings vary. First, why should the reason for cell death matter? Do we ask what caused a type of cancer; we label it and treat it.


Depends on what you class as The Condition.  And I believe, for both T1 diabetes and cancers they are working for cures/means of prevention. I think not all cancers are the same.



DaveB said:


> To define someone who has non-autoimmune cell death and who has low insulin as T2  is not helpful...


Does seem to be confusion, misunderstanding and lack of knowledge about.



DaveB said:


> ... as in general T2 means excess insulin ...


I didn't know this.



DaveB said:


> To define someone who has non-autoimmune cell death and who has low insulin as T2  is not helpful as in general T2 means excess insulin due to insulin resistance and is a completely difference condition from having low insulin, whatever the cause, and the treatment is different as well. Low insulin is virtually always treated finally with insulin injections.


Are you suggesting that you stop being insulin resistant. When T2's start taking insulin they stop taking metformin etc?!
Definitely a complete lack of knowledge and understanding of diabetes on my part.


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## grovesy (Mar 22, 2017)

Ralph-YK said:


> Depends on what you class as The Condition.  And I believe, for both T1 diabetes and cancers they are working for cures/means of prevention. I think not all cancers are the same.
> 
> 
> Does seem to be confusion, misunderstanding and lack of knowledge about.
> ...


Many TYpe 2 on Insulin still take Metformin and often have to have larger doses of Insulin. 
Experts are now beginning to think that Diabetes is not just distinct types but a range of conditions. It is more important that people get the appropriate treatment.


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## mark643 (Dec 19, 2019)

Hi. I was diagnosed diabetic at the age of 16, I am now 60. I started on tablets so I was type 2. Despite this, the way it was sold to me was that tablets simply flogged the islets of Langerhans to produce insulin. Simply, flog something long enough..... 

I changed to insulin and bear in mind that at a very young age I made my mother promise that if I had a certain injection I would never have to have another injection for the rest of my life, that was a very big decision.

Can type 2 diabetics become type 1? Yes, of course they can. You can read as much literature as you like and believe what you like. My attitude is simply I am a diabetic. Type doesn't come into it, the only difference is the treatment I use for my diabetes and consequences such as hypo's, eating, exercise, etc. Today even now, despite my fear of injections (flu?) and blood tests (simply because I am not in control of the needle) I don't regret choosing insulin injections over tablets.

There will be those saying I was wrongly diagnosed as type 2 initially when I was really type 1. Maybe, maybe not. It was the 1970's when we were not given so much information and misinformation that we became confused. All I can say to you is talk to your diabetic specialist, ask about your condition, what would be best for you now and long term and after taking time to think things through, make a choice on which direction you want to go - whether to stay on tablets, change to insulin or a mixture of tablets and insulin. But keep it simple, you are a diabetic and you can change your decision over treatment. After all a car is a car whether it runs on petrol, diesel or electricity.

You are the diabetic and the best person to control your diabetes is you and the choices you make based on information and help given to you by your diabetic specialist at a diabetes clinic, not something written by someone you don't know on the internet. I was extremely lucky, my diabetes specialist was Professor Alberti in the 1970's and I remain extremely grateful to him for his advice and how he helped me at that young age.


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## trophywench (Dec 19, 2019)

I was equally lucky in having a teaching Prof as my consultant from initial diagnosis to his retirement.  He absolutely knew his stuff and years later I discovered he was one of the professionals who facilitated the first live births in the UK for diabetic women. (at the QE in Birmingham)

What a major step forward in the short history of insulin treated diabetes that was!

I just assumed everyone was as lucky as me (and you) in our consultant and only found out later courteousy of the new fangled interwebnet thing - that they weren't.

Many many 'new Type 2s' come on this forum still and it's ruddy obvious to a lot of us they are really new T1s but there again GPs aren't experts and an awful lot of them even now plainly don't have a clue - so the poor individual would never get referred to someone who does have a clue if it wasn't for 'us random lot on the internet' informing them about what tests to ask for to get the ball rolling in the right direction sooner rather than later.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Dec 19, 2019)

I’m afraid I have to disagree with you @mark643, though I can understand why you have come to the conclusions you have, with your own experience. 

Type 1 and Type 2 Diabetes are related in some ways, but they are quite different conditions. There may be some overlap with long term risks and some treatments can work for both conditions, but they are quite different in physiology and pathology, and treatment is not interchangeable - oral medications will simply not function in ‘classic’ T1 (though it can appear to have some effect in the early stages of LADA). 

Nevertheless, Im glad you switched to insulin and found a treatment that works for you.


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