# Confused!!



## Felinia (Sep 17, 2019)

I finally got my Training course underway yesterday, with a 1 hour phone consultation with a diabetic dietician, and it has left me rather confused.  I would welcome feedback from members on what I was told - both for and against.
The lady was very pleasant, but English was not her first language, and I think we both struggled to understand exactly what each was trying to say or explain.  I explained my medical conditions, my medications, and the foods that exacerbated my Diverticular Disease (DD) (gluten, full fats, nuts, seeds), cholesterol levels (fats) and hiatus hernia (acidic foods and fruits).  Most of what she said was direct from the NHS recommendations, with no regard for what I had said affected me, but some things I had never heard before.
2 small portions of fruit, 80gm a day (yes, fine), but NEVER with a main meal, only 2 hours after, as a mid-morning and mid-afternoon snack, and only ever one type of fruit.  So for example, no fruit with my breakfast, no chopped fruit on my salad, no gammon and pineapple, or pork with sliced apple, no home made fruit salad.  
At least 4 pints of plain water a day, tea and coffee does not count.  I do have 4 pints of fluid a day, but it's mixed.  I have de-caf tea only with a dash of skimmed milk, but was told the milk negated something or other.  No drinking after 6pm.  I always take a glass of water to bed with me.
Have lots of nuts and seeds, even though they give me some of the more unpleasant side effects of DD, on my cereal.  Well I'll try and see what happens.
Eat lots more protein and fats at every meal.  I've always had small portions of proteins so I'll just increase the portion size.  But, boiled eggs with porridge - one of her suggestions!!  Fats are a real problem, as for years I've believed low fat is the way to lower cholesterol, as I'm severely allergic to statins, and they also affect my DD.  Also I need to LOSE weight, not increase my calorie intake.  I take Benecol and Fybogel as advised by my GP, but was told they are loaded with sugars, and the claims made are merely advertising hype.
She did make the point that over the years I have developed fears and phobias, plus taken some mis-information as the truth, which I think is valid, so is why I'll try some of the suggestions, but nothing will ever persuade me to have avocado again - I find it simply disgusting in my mouth lol!!!  It's all a learning curve.


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## Drummer (Sep 17, 2019)

The advice given to you seems to make no sense.
Mind you - finding that eating protein and fat and losing weight also seems to make no sense when done so in the teeth of the accepted knowledge pushed for decades but when it works - what can you do?
No drinking after 6pm? Why? What possible benefit could that have?
I would have the boiled eggs at breakfast time - but with cheese and a huge salad, never porridge, as it is a high carb food. 
Eating fats doesn't usually result in increased cholesterol levels - unless it is associated with weightloss, which it can be. I have only ever managed to lose weight eating Atkins style low carb high fat diets.  High carb low fat increases my weight - I was practically spherical at diagnosis on a supposedly cholesterol lowering diet.


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## Felinia (Sep 17, 2019)

Drummer said:


> The advice given to you seems to make no sense.
> Mind you - finding that eating protein and fat and losing weight also seems to make no sense when done so in the teeth of the accepted knowledge pushed for decades but when it works - what can you do?
> No drinking after 6pm? Why? What possible benefit could that have?
> I would have the boiled eggs at breakfast time - but with cheese and a huge salad, never porridge, as it is a high carb food.
> Eating fats doesn't usually result in increased cholesterol levels - unless it is associated with weightloss, which it can be. I have only ever managed to lose weight eating Atkins style low carb high fat diets.  High carb low fat increases my weight - I was practically spherical at diagnosis on a supposedly cholesterol lowering diet.


I'm glad you find it a bit weird as well.  The drinking bit was supposed to stop me getting up several times a night, after the increased fluid intake.  But weeing more often is also common with DD and I currently get up 4 - 6 times a night.  
I know of another diabetic who has a ham and cheese salad for breakfast, so I think I'll have something like poached egg, turkey rashers and mushrooms.  I would have said plus tomatoes, but tomatoes are actually a fruit I think!  So when are you allowed to eat them!!!!!  Do you have any advice on reduced salt and sugar baked beans please?  I do like them but have avoided them since diagnosis.  
I'm having my cholesterol measured in about 6 weeks time so I'll be interested to see the result.  I might end up on bezafibrate, which was the drug used before statins.


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## Drummer (Sep 17, 2019)

I know tomatoes are, botanically a fruit but they end up in my salads - just the one, though, as I know that I can eat the salads I make with little effect on my blood glucose levels - I have a meter to check that is so. I have about 10 gm of carbs in my first meal, as I am more resistant in the mornings - or I was, I just stick to what worked. I have fried eggs, real bacon, mushrooms, courgette and green sweet pepper fairly frequently.
I don't eat beans other than runner beans as I am susceptible to the carbs in them for some reason, they hoist up the blood glucose more than the listed carbs would indicate, and they keep it high for some time. I do eat peas, but in small amounts for the same reason - and I avoid peanuts, as they are a legume too. I do add salt to my coffee each morning, a tiny pinch, and in hot weather put some on my food too, as we do need salt and I do not have many processed foods which is where most people get their salt, sometimes in overdose.
People respond differently which is why it is a good idea to get a meter to check your reactions and progress.


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## Felinia (Sep 17, 2019)

Drummer said:


> I know tomatoes are, botanically a fruit but they end up in my salads - just the one, though, as I know that I can eat the salads I make with little effect on my blood glucose levels - I have a meter to check that is so. I have about 10 gm of carbs in my first meal, as I am more resistant in the mornings - or I was, I just stick to what worked. I have fried eggs, real bacon, mushrooms, courgette and green sweet pepper fairly frequently.
> I don't eat beans other than runner beans as I am susceptible to the carbs in them for some reason, they hoist up the blood glucose more than the listed carbs would indicate, and they keep it high for some time. I do eat peas, but in small amounts for the same reason - and I avoid peanuts, as they are a legume too. I do add salt to my coffee each morning, a tiny pinch, and in hot weather put some on my food too, as we do need salt and I do not have many processed foods which is where most people get their salt, sometimes in overdose.
> People respond differently which is why it is a good idea to get a meter to check your reactions and progress.


Thanks.  I love runner beans and have them with most dinners!  Interesting about peanuts.  I am following the instruction about nuts and have ordered a bag of chopped assorted nuts.  I noticed they comprised almonds, hazelnuts and peanuts. I monitor my sodium intake and am usually under 2000mg pd, where the recommended limit is 2300mg.  But I have been avoiding real bacon, because of the sodium level.  So far I haven't got a meter, but after the first set of follow up tests that may follow.   Sometimes I feel very tired which my GP said was partly the diabetes and partly increased BP medication.  But twice now I've had to lie down for a couple of hours, after my Aquafit class.  I'm starting to monitor what I have for breakfast before the class, to see if that makes a difference.  So far it's all a work in progress.


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## TheClockworkDodo (Sep 17, 2019)

Some of your dietician's recommendations seem very peculiar to me, @Felinia - though it's not my area of expertise or anything, my Mum has diverticulitis, hiatus hernia, and high blood pressure, so I know what she can and can't eat, and what she's been told she should or shouldn't eat, and it really sounds to me as though the dietician you spoke to didn't understand the other conditions you're juggling with your diabetes.  (Having multiple other conditions myself, I've found it's quite common for medical professionals to think the one they specialise in somehow trumps all the others - it doesn't, and it's really unhelpful).

Firstly there is no way Mum could eat nuts, seeds, or pips of any kind or any fruit (or anything else) which contains seeds or pips or anything of that sort (including tomatoes) - they are all an absolute no-no with diverticulitis.  Also, the diabetes dietician told you to have nuts and seeds _on your cereal_?  Why didn't she tell you not to eat cereal?!  Most cereals are full of sugar and really high-carb.

Secondly if you can't tolerate much acidity then having fruit as a snack rather than as part of a meal is a peculiar recommendation.  It's also a peculiar recommendation for someone with diabetes, quite frankly - a chunk of fruit is going to send your blood sugar up any time, but particularly if you have it on its own, whereas if you have it as part of a meal the protein or fat in the meal's going to slow down the effect.  I'm surprised you can eat pineapple or even apple though, they're both quite acidic (my Mum certainly couldn't).

4 pints of water a day sounds good to me though, it will help lower your blood sugar and also help you to feel full, which is obviously good if you're trying to lose weight.  Tea and coffee aren't supposed to count towards your 4 pints, but I think herbal and fruit teas do count, if you can't bear to drink that much plain water.

My Mum has been told not to drink in the evenings too, because of her high blood pressure.  I'm at a loss on that one, no idea why Mum was told that.  If fluid increases blood pressure why are they telling you to drink 4 pints of water per day?  And my GP told me some time ago that drinking more doesn't make you go to the loo more frequently, it just increases the volume when you do go!  Mum was told not to drink in the evenings though, rather than after 6pm, and she interprets that as being after dinner, and she does still take water to bed with her, just for the occasional sip.

Maybe the dietician meant boiled eggs or porridge rather than and porridge?  If her first language wasn't English?  Or porridge followed by boiled eggs?  Porridge is, as Drummer says, high carb, but I think it's good for cholesterol and for some digestive problems.

Agree with you about avocado - yuck!


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## Drummer (Sep 17, 2019)

If you are getting adequate salt from some source, that is fine, but I was suffering cramps which was partly down to low salt intake - but I almost always boil bacon for a minute or so before frying it - which removes a lot of the soluble nitrate/nitrite preservatives and of course the salt too.


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## belugalad (Sep 17, 2019)

Felinia said:


> I finally got my Training course underway yesterday, with a 1 hour phone consultation with a diabetic dietician, and it has left me rather confused.  I would welcome feedback from members on what I was told - both for and against.
> The lady was very pleasant, but English was not her first language, and I think we both struggled to understand exactly what each was trying to say or explain.  I explained my medical conditions, my medications, and the foods that exacerbated my Diverticular Disease (DD) (gluten, full fats, nuts, seeds), cholesterol levels (fats) and hiatus hernia (acidic foods and fruits).  Most of what she said was direct from the NHS recommendations, with no regard for what I had said affected me, but some things I had never heard before.
> 2 small portions of fruit, 80gm a day (yes, fine), but NEVER with a main meal, only 2 hours after, as a mid-morning and mid-afternoon snack, and only ever one type of fruit.  So for example, no fruit with my breakfast, no chopped fruit on my salad, no gammon and pineapple, or pork with sliced apple, no home made fruit salad.
> At least 4 pints of plain water a day, tea and coffee does not count.  I do have 4 pints of fluid a day, but it's mixed.  I have de-caf tea only with a dash of skimmed milk, but was told the milk negated something or other.  No drinking after 6pm.  I always take a glass of water to bed with me.
> ...


Hi when you mention Fybogel,I was of the understanding that it contains hardly any sugar,I use a fibre supplement myself as low carbing can cause constipation,I'm not sure if it's just for a short period while the body adapts to the new way of eating but I take Psyllium husk every morning and will continue to do so


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## Felinia (Sep 18, 2019)

TheClockworkDodo said:


> Some of your dietician's recommendations seem very peculiar to me, @Felinia - though it's not my area of expertise or anything, my Mum has diverticulitis, hiatus hernia, and high blood pressure, so I know what she can and can't eat, and what she's been told she should or shouldn't eat, and it really sounds to me as though the dietician you spoke to didn't understand the other conditions you're juggling with your diabetes.  (Having multiple other conditions myself, I've found it's quite common for medical professionals to think the one they specialise in somehow trumps all the others - it doesn't, and it's really unhelpful).
> 
> Firstly there is no way Mum could eat nuts, seeds, or pips of any kind or any fruit (or anything else) which contains seeds or pips or anything of that sort (including tomatoes) - they are all an absolute no-no with diverticulitis.  Also, the diabetes dietician told you to have nuts and seeds _on your cereal_?  Why didn't she tell you not to eat cereal?!  Most cereals are full of sugar and really high-carb.
> 
> ...


Hi and thanks - I'm glad your feelings about the advice given to me matches mine!!  You are spot on thinking she simply didn't seem to understand my restrictions.  She also didn't understand my medications - she actually admitted she'd never heard of one of them - and not to take 2 prescribed ones because they contain sugar is ridiculous.  By acidic fruit I meant oranges, grapefruit, lemon, lime, raspberries, gooseberries, rhubarb.  I can eat a little of the less sharp apples, but am aware of their high sugar so avoid them.  Funnily enough pineapple is OK in 40gm portions, but I now only have frozen fruit, not fresh (so I can control portion size), and it is not as sharp.  Cereal for me is just porridge, oatbran or Oatibix, as wheat based products are one of my diverticular disease triggers.  So not loaded with sugar, just carbs, and I only ever have a half portion.  At the moment I feel like I'm tiptoeing through a minefield and just hope my next HbA1c will show if I am making the right choices.


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## Felinia (Sep 18, 2019)

belugalad said:


> Hi when you mention Fybogel,I was of the understanding that it contains hardly any sugar,I use a fibre supplement myself as low carbing can cause constipation,I'm not sure if it's just for a short period while the body adapts to the new way of eating but I take Psyllium husk every morning and will continue to do so


I've been taking Fybogel for 20+ years, on prescription, for my Diverticular Disease.  My app showed a little sugar, but not, I thought, enough to get into a flap over.  But I was very interested to read about low carb diets causing constipation.  I have been suffering with that since cutting right down on carbs, followed afterwards by the runs.  Not good for my bowel at all!  I did get some sugar free dark chocolate (sweetened with Stevia) and had a strip.  Dreadful tummy upset, then I read Stevia can cause diarrhoea!  That was a learning experience!  It's banned now in the UK, but Ex-Lax had the same effect!!


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## Sally W (Sep 18, 2019)

Felinia said:


> I've been taking Fybogel for 20+ years, on prescription, for my Diverticular Disease.  My app showed a little sugar, but not, I thought, enough to get into a flap over.  But I was very interested to read about low carb diets causing constipation.  I have been suffering with that since cutting right down on carbs, followed afterwards by the runs.  Not good for my bowel at all!  I did get some sugar free dark chocolate (sweetened with Stevia) and had a strip.  Dreadful tummy upset, then I read Stevia can cause diarrhoea!  That was a learning experience!  It's banned now in the UK, but Ex-Lax had the same effect!!


 How about some good quality low sugar chocolate? Hotel Chocolat make Supermilk which has less sugar, more cocoa & milk. It’s less than dark chocolate [which I’m not a fan of). Creamy and delicious. The price tags puts me off eating too much!


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## Felinia (Sep 18, 2019)

Sally W said:


> How about some good quality low sugar chocolate? Hotel Chocolat make Supermilk which has less sugar, more cocoa & milk. It’s less than dark chocolate [which I’m not a fan of). Creamy and delicious. The price tags puts me off eating too much!


Thanks - Where do you get yours from please?  It's not on Amazon.


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## Docb (Sep 18, 2019)

Coming back to your original post Felina, the hour long telephone "consultation" rings a couple of warning bells for me.  Very difficult to pick up all those clues which you get face to face which are used build confidence (or otherwise) in the value of information being given.  I'm guessing that the person on the other end of the phone was not offering you the wealth of her experience but was wandering around computer screens whilst talking to you looking for things that might be relevant.

Maybe you could go back to who referred you to that service and explain that it left you confused and that you are concerned that the person you were talking to did not seem to understand the need to balance your diet against more than one condition. Ask them what to do next.


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## belugalad (Sep 18, 2019)

Felinia said:


> I've been taking Fybogel for 20+ years, on prescription, for my Diverticular Disease.  My app showed a little sugar, but not, I thought, enough to get into a flap over.  But I was very interested to read about low carb diets causing constipation.  I have been suffering with that since cutting right down on carbs, followed afterwards by the runs.  Not good for my bowel at all!  I did get some sugar free dark chocolate (sweetened with Stevia) and had a strip.  Dreadful tummy upset, then I read Stevia can cause diarrhoea!  That was a learning experience!  It's banned now in the UK, but Ex-Lax had the same effect!!


Hi if you like chocolate and fancy a treat,Aldi sell an 85% chocolate that is quite low carb called Moser Roth 85% it was recommended to me on this site and I buy a bar now and again as a treat,it comes in a cardboard sleeve and has 5 individual foil wrapped 12.5g pieces,I must get a bar myself this weekend


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## Felinia (Sep 18, 2019)

Docb said:


> Coming back to your original post Felina, the hour long telephone "consultation" rings a couple of warning bells for me.  Very difficult to pick up all those clues which you get face to face which are used build confidence (or otherwise) in the value of information being given.  I'm guessing that the person on the other end of the phone was not offering you the wealth of her experience but was wandering around computer screens whilst talking to you looking for things that might be relevant.
> 
> Maybe you could go back to who referred you to that service and explain that it left you confused and that you are concerned that the person you were talking to did not seem to understand the need to balance your diet against more than one condition. Ask them what to do next.


Thanks for coming back to me.  Apparently all newly diagnosed type 2 diabetics are entitled to an education course.  The national standard course is DESMOND, but my area of Devon does not subscribe to it.  Instead they contract out to a company called Oviva, who are based in Leeds.  The education consists of a 45 minute phone consultation where, as you say, they follow a bog standard computer question and answer screen, then fish around.  The second part is either further follow up phone calls, or a one off half day face to face group training course.  I have elected to attend the group training course where I will go prepared with a list of questions.  Hopefully the face to face will resolve everything.  If asked to provide feedback, I will be honest.  Some of what she said was OK - she was right about my fear of fats and not eating enough protein.  She simply did not seem to understand my medical issues and occasionally contradicted herself.  But I struggled to understand her, and her English might not have come out the way she meant.  Fortunately my GP practise is very much on the ball and I will be monitored and chased up regularly, particularly for the first 6 months.  I am quite on the ball, and active on a couple of forums - for diabetes and diet - where I have learned a lot.


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## Sally W (Sep 18, 2019)

Felinia said:


> Thanks - Where do you get yours from please?  It's not on Amazon.


Not available on Amazon they have shops. Bristol no where I live in south west has them on every shopping centre & John Lewis. If not, they do mail order but check their store locator https://www.hotelchocolat.com/uk/chocolate-shops

I have the Aldi 85% for cooking but my tastes are for a creamier chocolate & whilst this is darker than say Cadbury milk it’s more to my taste than dark. I think you might enjoy it if you’re a milk chocolate fan & want to avoid the sweeteners.


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## Felinia (Sep 18, 2019)

Thanks.  I used to love Cadburys Old Jamaica and Old Seville, which were dark chocolate with a touch of milk.  I'll order online and see.  There is a branch in Exeter, 25 miles away, but as I can't walk far, I'd struggle to get there as the car park is too distant.


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## Sally W (Sep 18, 2019)

Me too- Old Jamaica not seem that one in years! Oh that’s a long way. Not sure if you can join online but they have a VIP card which gives you present on your birthday & special offers. Sometimes they do free postage with it too. Also it’s expensive & if you buy 3 bars they do discount so I always do that. I’m lucky that I had a shop where I live but if I had to have posted I’d be buying in bulk & asking Mr to hide them from me! I love it as chocolate is one thing I struggle to give up completely.


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## TheClockworkDodo (Sep 18, 2019)

I eat Green & Blacks 85% cocoa, but I don't like any milk in my chocolate so it's no hardship for me to eat the really dark stuff 
I do also eat their mint chocolate sometimes though, and that's 70% cocoa.



Felinia said:


> At the moment I feel like I'm tiptoeing through a minefield and just hope my next HbA1c will show if I am making the right choices.



It sounds to me as though you need to be testing your blood sugar to see how different foods effect you - you obviously can't just drastically cut carbs the way a lot of type 2s do because of your other conditions, so you need to know which foods really spike your blood sugar and which you can get away with.  The HbA1c will show if you're doing OK overall, but it won't show if (for instance) your blood sugar spikes up to 20 every time you eat porridge, if the rest of the time your blood sugar's a nice 5 and that's keeping the average down; nor will it show if your blood sugar doesn't spike at all when you eat porridge; or whether it's better to eat those pieces of fruit as a snack or as part of a meal, and so on.

Do you have a meter?  I'd really recommend getting one if you don't - if you can see what your blood sugar is doing before a meal and then 2 hours after the meal you will feel much more informed and much less as though you're tiptoeing through a minefield.  Doctors don't seem to give them out to type 2s very much, unfortunately, so you're unlikely to get one on the NHS if you don't have one already, but a lot of people here get this one - https://homehealth-uk.com/all-products/codefree-blood-glucose-monitoring-system-mmoll-or-mgdl/ - because it has cheaper test strips than most of the others (you'd need to get more test strips with it, but most people re-use lancets at least a few times).  If you decide to get one, you can get it VAT free because you have diabetes, and you need to make sure you select mmol/L.


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## Felinia (Sep 19, 2019)

TheClockworkDodo said:


> I eat Green & Blacks 85% cocoa, but I don't like any milk in my chocolate so it's no hardship for me to eat the really dark stuff
> I do also eat their mint chocolate sometimes though, and that's 70% cocoa.
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the information.  I asked twice at the GP surgery, with my GP and the dedicated diabetic nurse, to be told I didn't need one.  No doubt saving money for them!!  I hate needles so have so far not got one.  But I'm beginning to think I will need to.  I'm following the healthy eating plan and have lost almost a stone, plus I now exercise 3 times a week at the pool, then on my mini exercise bike at home.  However I don't feel any different - I still feel just as exhausted and pee for England, particularly at night, so don't sleep well.  Most days after Aquafit I spend a couple of hours asleep on the bed, catching up!


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## Felinia (Sep 19, 2019)

TheClockworkDodo said:


> I eat Green & Blacks 85% cocoa, but I don't like any milk in my chocolate so it's no hardship for me to eat the really dark stuff
> I do also eat their mint chocolate sometimes though, and that's 70% cocoa.
> 
> 
> ...


I've taken your advice and ordered a tester with extra needles and strips.  I would be interested to see my levels before and after exercise, as I feel so tired.  Many years ago I know a young man who played table tennis for England and he tested himself before every game he played.


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## Sally W (Sep 19, 2019)

You’re doing so much with exercise & weight loss that’s brilliant.  I’d recommend a monitor (I’ve got code free) as you may be avoiding foods that don’t affect you. Also definitely avoid high carb beige foods but also do consider sustainability too as that’s important. I couldn’t eat lots of meat & fat & didn’t do that for long so chose gut friendly lower carb path with help from Michael Mosley books. (My cholesterol is normal & after a year). I still have mash & chips but make them with swede or celeriac. Good luck


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## Felinia (Sep 19, 2019)

Sally W said:


> You’re doing so much with exercise & weight loss that’s brilliant.  I’d recommend a monitor (I’ve got code free) as you may be avoiding foods that don’t affect you. Also definitely avoid high carb beige foods but also do consider sustainability too as that’s important. I couldn’t eat lots of meat & fat & didn’t do that for long so chose gut friendly lower carb path with help from Michael Mosley books. (My cholesterol is normal & after a year). I still have mash & chips but make them with swede or celeriac. Good luck


Thanks.  I'll see how I get on with the monitor.  I have carrot and swede mash, or roasted squash wedges, which are both a pretty decent substitute.  There are some things I really can't stomach - avocado and celeriac being two!!  But I make a nice spiced squash and red pepper soup which will be good in the winter, also a chickestrone soup, with chicken instead of pasta!


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## belugalad (Sep 19, 2019)

Felinia said:


> Thanks.  I'll see how I get on with the monitor.  I have carrot and swede mash, or roasted squash wedges, which are both a pretty decent substitute.  There are some things I really can't stomach - avocado and celeriac being two!!  But I make a nice spiced squash and red pepper soup which will be good in the winter, also a chickestrone soup, with chicken instead of pasta!


You're doing well and you're making good positive steps,don't worry about the needle it's hidden within the pen, you can't see it and it's quick and just a little nip,you will soon get used to it.


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## Felinia (Sep 19, 2019)

belugalad said:


> You're doing well and you're making good positive steps,don't worry about the needle it's hidden within the pen, you can't see it and it's quick and just a little nip,you will soon get used to it.


How do you dispose of used needles please?  When I had to inject myself daily with blood thinners, I had to order a Sharps Box and arrange for it to be collected when the course was finished.


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## Pine Marten (Sep 19, 2019)

Felinia said:


> How do you dispose of used needles please?  When I had to inject myself daily with blood thinners, I had to order a Sharps Box and arrange for it to be collected when the course was finished.


I use the Codefree too, and I put the used strips and needles (not that I change them very often ) in the previous little pot and put it in the general bin.


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## Felinia (Sep 19, 2019)

Pine Marten said:


> I use the Codefree too, and I put the used strips and needles (not that I change them very often ) in the previous little pot and put it in the general bin.


Thanks.


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## TheClockworkDodo (Sep 19, 2019)

Felinia said:


> I've taken your advice and ordered a tester with extra needles and strips.  I would be interested to see my levels before and after exercise, as I feel so tired.  Many years ago I know a young man who played table tennis for England and he tested himself before every game he played.


High blood sugar could be making you tired, but I noticed you're also on Doxazosin, which could also be making you tired - my Mum's been given that recently and she keeps falling asleep.  But if you exercise when your blood sugar's high it can just make it go higher, which seems counterintuitive, you'd expect exercise to lower it.

I put my lancets in a sharps bin, but then I'm on insulin so I need one anyway for my needles.  The lancets I get have a little plastic cover you twist off before you put them in the bodger (technical term there!) ready to prick your fingers, so when I've finished with a lancet I stick the plastic cover back over the sharp bit of the lancet.  I don't know whether the lancets you're getting are the same style, but if they are and you can do the same it will protect anyone who handles your rubbish from spiking their hands on them.

My bodger has a dial with different depth settings, so you set it to 1 for pricking children's fingers, and 4 for pricking tough builders' fingers, and 2 or 3 otherwise - if yours is the same I'd try it on 2, you want it on the lowest number you can draw blood with and then it will be less likely to hurt.

The other thing is to make sure you only spike the sides of your fingers - alongside (but not too close to) the nail, never the pads of your fingers as spiking the pads will hurt a lot (as will spiking down the side of the nail!).  And you can use both sides of all your fingers and your thumbs, so long as you only use the sides and not the pads - using all 20 available sides will mean you're much less likely to get sore fingers.


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## Felinia (Sep 20, 2019)

TheClockworkDodo said:


> High blood sugar could be making you tired, but I noticed you're also on Doxazosin, which could also be making you tired - my Mum's been given that recently and she keeps falling asleep.  But if you exercise when your blood sugar's high it can just make it go higher, which seems counterintuitive, you'd expect exercise to lower it.
> 
> I put my lancets in a sharps bin, but then I'm on insulin so I need one anyway for my needles.  The lancets I get have a little plastic cover you twist off before you put them in the bodger (technical term there!) ready to prick your fingers, so when I've finished with a lancet I stick the plastic cover back over the sharp bit of the lancet.  I don't know whether the lancets you're getting are the same style, but if they are and you can do the same it will protect anyone who handles your rubbish from spiking their hands on them.
> 
> ...


Many thanks - that is extremely helpful advice about the lancets and how to use them.  I was feeling very tired before the diagnosis, and it's not improved in 6 weeks of following the eating and exercise plan.  Intuitively I do have breakfast before I exercise, and the classes are at 9.30am and 11am.  I've had 2 classes this week and the last 3 afternoons I've laid down for a couple of hours.  I do fear that means the glucose levels are not coming down.  I did mention it to my GP but she said it was a combination of my medication (I guess she meant the Doxazosin) and diabetes.  All my many blood tests were otherwise normal.  I've tried various BP medications and these 3 are the only ones without strong side effects.  We'll see what the HbA1c says and if I monitor before and after exercise.


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## TheClockworkDodo (Sep 20, 2019)

As well as doing a few tests before and after exercise, you can also do a few before and after different foods, so you get an idea of which things spike you and which don't.  You may get some surprises (the food which spikes me more than any other is ... eggs!  They're carb-free, so they're perfect for most diabetics, I just have a slight intolerance to them and that means they send my blood sugar into the stratosphere so I had to stop eating them.)

Having breakfast before you exercise is sensible - if you don't eat in the morning the chances are your blood sugar will just go up and up anyway, because your body is putting out stored glucose ready for the day.  You may just need to tweak the timing or the amount of your breakfast a bit so it fits in better with your exercise, or think about having something different for breakfast if you find that what you are having spikes you a lot.

I think my Mum had the same thing with BP meds - she's tried several different ones and kept going back to the GP because she had side effects - she seems to get on better with the Doxazosin too, apart from the tendency to sit down after lunch and nod off.


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## Felinia (Sep 20, 2019)

I used to like fruit and Greek yogurt for breakfast, but the dietitian assigned to me told me to never eat fruit with a main meal, just as a one off mid morning or mid afternoon snack.  So I've been having porridge or poached eggs with mushrooms and tomatoes.   It will be interesting.  On a different track entirely I know loads of non diabetic people my age who have an afternoon kip - that included my dad and my friends.  It never used to be me!!


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## TheClockworkDodo (Sep 20, 2019)

Well, my Mum is 91, so at her age it's not entirely surprising she's started to need an afternoon kip!

I am still baffled by your dietician's fruit advice   Poached eggs with mushrooms and tomatoes sounds a really good breakfast for a diabetic though, wish I could eat something like that, but I'm (thanks to also juggling diabetes with other conditions) stuck with porridge!


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## Felinia (Sep 20, 2019)

TheClockworkDodo said:


> Well, my Mum is 91, so at her age it's not entirely surprising she's started to need an afternoon kip!
> 
> I am still baffled by your dietician's fruit advice   Poached eggs with mushrooms and tomatoes sounds a really good breakfast for a diabetic though, wish I could eat something like that, but I'm (thanks to also juggling diabetes with other conditions) stuck with porridge!


My juggling acts are Diverticular Disease, Hiatus Hernia and Gastritis, which cut out lots of foods, or otherwise I suffer within 8 - 12 hours!!  Tomorrow for the first time in years, I'm trying chopped nuts with my porridge, which I make with 50/50 water/almond milk.  I've nothing planned for 48 hours, so can stay close to the little girl's room!!!!!  I hadn't had a poached egg for years but when I was diagnosed I treated myself to one.  It's been a really good buy.


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## TheClockworkDodo (Sep 20, 2019)

Felinia said:


> Tomorrow for the first time in years, I'm trying chopped nuts with my porridge, which I make with 50/50 water/almond milk.  I've nothing planned for 48 hours, so can stay close to the little girl's room!!!!!


Good luck with that!


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## Felinia (Sep 24, 2019)

TheClockworkDodo said:


> I eat Green & Blacks 85% cocoa, but I don't like any milk in my chocolate so it's no hardship for me to eat the really dark stuff
> I do also eat their mint chocolate sometimes though, and that's 70% cocoa.
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Juliet
Well I've taken your advice and got the monitor you recommended.  Then I spent an hour yesterday trying to get it set up.  I don't think I'm stupid, but this really had me flummoxed!  I worked out how to insert the needle and prepare for pricking - it worked fine on a setting of 2.  I tried the set up on the monitor and got it for date and time OK.  I didn't want it to beep 2 hours after a meal, as that's when I'm in the swimming pool doing Aquafit, so ended the setup there .  I worked out how to put in the strip and let it absorb the the blood OK.  Then the display showed 2 - 3 and I haven't a clue what that means.  I've clearly done something wrong as I was expecting some kind of mmol reading.  I phone my GP surgery and they offered me a phone consult which is worse than useless as I couldn't explain the problem over the phone - I thought they needed to see it.  Reluctantly I have 10 minutes with a non specialist nurse next week.  In the meantime have you any advice please?  I'm just off to Aquafit but I'll be back after lunch.  Many thanks.


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## Felinia (Sep 24, 2019)

Felinia said:


> Hi Juliet
> Well I've taken your advice and got the monitor you recommended.  Then I spent an hour yesterday trying to get it set up.  I don't think I'm stupid, but this really had me flummoxed!  I worked out how to insert the needle and prepare for pricking - it worked fine on a setting of 2.  I tried the set up on the monitor and got it for date and time OK.  I didn't want it to beep 2 hours after a meal, as that's when I'm in the swimming pool doing Aquafit, so ended the setup there .  I worked out how to put in the strip and let it absorb the the blood OK.  Then the display showed 2 - 3 and I haven't a clue what that means.  I've clearly done something wrong as I was expecting some kind of mmol reading.  I phone my GP surgery and they offered me a phone consult which is worse than useless as I couldn't explain the problem over the phone - I thought they needed to see it.  Reluctantly I have 10 minutes with a non specialist nurse next week.  In the meantime have you any advice please?  I'm just off to Aquafit but I'll be back after lunch.  Many thanks.


I've just checked with my GP surgery and I've been allocated to my own diabetic specialist nurse, so if you are unable to advise, at least I know I'll see someone who knows what they are talking about!!!!


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## belugalad (Sep 24, 2019)

Felinia said:


> I've just checked with my GP surgery and I've been allocated to my own diabetic specialist nurse, so if you are unable to advise, at least I know I'll see someone who knows what they are talking about!!!!


Is that the coded free monitor, that is the error code that you get when the blob of blood isn't large enough so the blood doesn't go all the way up the little strip to be read by the meter that's what happens.
There has to be enough blood if you look at the strips when you place it in a spot of blood you will see it travel upwards on the strip if there isn't enough blood in volume it doesn't travel far enough up resulting in the error code,I often can't capture enough blood,people say it helps if your hands are warm and you rub them together for a little while,I'm sure people will follow with more tips


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## Pine Marten (Sep 24, 2019)

Hi @Felinia, did you follow the manual instructions to set it up? I found I had to follow them quite slowly, and I didn't bother with the pre and post meal beeps. There are some YouTube videos showing how to take a reading including this one, if it helps:


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## Felinia (Sep 24, 2019)

belugalad said:


> Is that the coded free monitor, that is the error code that you get when the blob of blood isn't large enough so the blood doesn't go all the way up the little strip to be read by the meter that's what happens.
> There has to be enough blood if you look at the strips when you place it in a spot of blood you will see it travel upwards on the strip if there isn't enough blood in volume it doesn't travel far enough up resulting in the error code,I often can't capture enough blood,people say it helps if your hands are warm and you rub them together for a little while,I'm sure people will follow with more tips


Thanks - the yellow strip was covered but I do clot quickly.  I'll try and be more bloody next time!!!!!


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## Felinia (Sep 24, 2019)

Pine Marten said:


> Hi @Felinia, did you follow the manual instructions to set it up? I found I had to follow them quite slowly, and I didn't bother with the pre and post meal beeps. There are some YouTube videos showing how to take a reading including this one, if it helps:


I did try to, but I'll certainly try again with the help of the video.  Another member thinks I didn't have enough blood!


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## belugalad (Sep 24, 2019)

I have mine set to 4.5 but even then I'm not always able to draw enough blood some mornings and give up,other times I have managed to get the best bleeds on the edge of my little finger and it's been quite runny


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## Felinia (Sep 24, 2019)

Hi
I've just tried again and got the message E - 2 which again means not enough blood.  At least I now know it's working properly, and next time I try I'll set it on 3.  It seems to come up very quickly before the blood has a chance to run down.  Should I be letting the blood run down before putting the strip in the monitor?  Could it be that simple??  Anyway I know now I don't need to bother the nurse next week, just keep practising till I find what works for me.  Thanks.


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## TheClockworkDodo (Sep 24, 2019)

It may be that your dial has more numbers than mine - I suggested 2 because mine goes from 1-4, but if you have more numbers you may need a higher one.  I haven't used the Codefree so I'm afraid I don't know - @belugalad or one of the others who've posted about it will know though.

I always get the test strip ready (but not pushed right into the meter), then prick my finger with the lancet and make sure it looks as though there's enough blood, and then push the test strip all the way into the meter (with the hand I haven't pricked, so as not to get blood on it until it's in place) before applying the blood to the test strip - I find otherwise my meter sometimes times out before I can get enough blood out of my finger as my fingers are very cold and don't bleed easily.


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## rebrascora (Sep 24, 2019)

Are you inserting the strip, pricking your finger and then touching the strip to the spot of blood and holding it there until you get a reading. I am not familiar with this meter but my meter beeps when it has been held to the spot of blood long enough and then it counts down to the actual reading.
Another tip I find useful is to wipe away the first spot of blood and squeeze a second spot out to test. This helps prevent any contamination from the surface of the skin. I just wipe it off on the back of my other hand but ideally a clean cotton wool ball should be used.
I also find it is better to use a deep setting and get a decent sized spot of blood easily than use a lower setting on the pricker and have to squeeze your finger to get blood. It is the squeezing which makes the finger sore, not the slightly deeper insertion in my opinion. If your hands are cold, soak them in warm water for a minute and then dry them thoroughly first or suck the finger if you don't have access to warm water at the time.


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## Pine Marten (Sep 24, 2019)

Felinia said:


> Hi
> I've just tried again and got the message E - 2 which again means not enough blood.  At least I now know it's working properly, and next time I try I'll set it on 3.  It seems to come up very quickly before the blood has a chance to run down.  Should I be letting the blood run down before putting the strip in the monitor?  Could it be that simple??  Anyway I know now I don't need to bother the nurse next week, just keep practising till I find what works for me.  Thanks.


I put the strip fully into the meter before pricking my finger, which works for me ok ... mind you, I used to be a blood donor and have always been a right bleeder!


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## Felinia (Sep 24, 2019)

My meter times out after just 5 seconds, so I think I need to get as much blood as possible into the strip before pushing it into place, as Juliet suggests.  I haven't come across a way of increasing the time out facility.  I had been pricking, pushing the strip into place then trying to get the blood into the strip, and it had barely started before timing out.  We're getting there, so thanks everyone.


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## rebrascora (Sep 24, 2019)

Felinia said:


> so I think I need to get as much blood as possible into the strip before pushing it into place, as Juliet suggests.


I think this is where you are going wrong. The strip needs to be inserted into the meter before it is offered up to the spot of blood. If you are holding the strip to the spot of blood and then inserting it into the meter, it will give you an error code and the strip will be spoilt.


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## rebrascora (Sep 24, 2019)

Juliet is suggesting you get a spot of blood on your finger, then insert the strip into the meter and then offer the strip up to the blood.


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## rebrascora (Sep 24, 2019)

The 5 seconds is usually the time it takes for the meter to read the sample but you will have maybe 20 seconds or more to offer the meter with strip inserted up to the spot of blood. Did you watch the video someone posted showing how to do it?


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## Pine Marten (Sep 24, 2019)

Yes, insert the strip before pricking your finger - as I posted upthread, then there is no time for it to time out.


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## rebrascora (Sep 24, 2019)

It is quite important to offer the strip (in the meter) to the blood spot from above either straight up and down or easier at an angle, so that the capillary action sucks the blood up into the test strip rather than from below where you might end up with air locks. It doesn't show that very well in the video posted.


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## Drummer (Sep 24, 2019)

I think that the problem has been spotted - maybe take your manual and go through the process of testing stage by stage - I use the Tee 2 these days but I have used two other models in the past. Each one requires the strip inserted in the meter and for a cartoon of a drop of blood going onto the tip of the strip to appear on the screen before blood is applied.
I get have meter in front of me with a strip on top of it, I stab and make sure I have a bead of blood, then insert the strip, await the cartoon and apply the blood.


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## Felinia (Sep 24, 2019)

Thanks everyone.  I'll have another go tomorrow.  But I am sure that at present the error message appears within 5 seconds of insertion, before the capilliary action has time to suck it up.  I've tried it several different ways as suggested by everyone (thanks) with the same error message each time.  Good job I ordered an extra 50 strips and lancets!!  If I still can't get a successful outcome, I'm going to take it to my face to face training course on 14 October, and hopefully get resolution.  That's better than waiting until the end of November for my next 10 minute GP appointment.


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## silentsquirrel (Sep 24, 2019)

Felinia said:


> Thanks everyone.  I'll have another go tomorrow.  But I am sure that at present the error message appears within 5 seconds of insertion, before the capilliary action has time to suck it up.  I've tried it several different ways as suggested by everyone (thanks) with the same error message each time.  Good job I ordered an extra 50 strips and lancets!!  If I still can't get a successful outcome, I'm going to take it to my face to face training course on 14 October, and hopefully get resolution.  That's better than waiting until the end of November for my next 10 minute GP appointment.


My meter (not a Codefree) takes about 5 s before it is ready to put blood on the strip, ie the symbol, usually a drop of blood, appears.   Are you waiting for this symbol?  If you put blood on too soon it won't work.


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## rebrascora (Sep 24, 2019)

You usually have to wait a few seconds after you insert the strip into the meter before you try to test the blood... kind of like a warm up period .... as @Drummer says, you get a symbol "or cartoon" usually of a flashing drop of blood after you insert the strip telling you that it is ready to receive the sample. I wonder if you are trying to test before it is ready. The strip definitely needs to be inserted into the machine before you introduce blood to it.
I have just timed my Nexus and it gives you exactly 3 minutes from inserting the strip to introduce blood to it before it times you out and shuts down. My Caresens Dual just gives you 2 mins to provide a sample of blood before it switches off but both are still more than adequate to prick your finger (multiple times if necessary) to try to get blood.


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## TheClockworkDodo (Sep 24, 2019)

rebrascora said:


> Juliet is suggesting you get a spot of blood on your finger, then insert the strip into the meter and then offer the strip up to the blood.


Yes, that's what I meant!  You shouldn't put blood onto the strip until it's in the meter and the meter is showing the symbol to say it's ready for blood.  But if I put the stip in my meter before I have blood ready my meter often times out before I have blood (not because I squeeze my finger - I don't ever do that, it hurts! - but because my fingers are so cold).


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## TheClockworkDodo (Sep 24, 2019)

It might be worth contacting the meter manufacturers, @Felinia and ask them for help making sure the meter's set up properly - they'd probably talk you through it on the phone, and it would save you wasting lots of strips.  It may even be that you've got a faulty meter.


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## Drummer (Sep 24, 2019)

TheClockworkDodo said:


> Yes, that's what I meant!  You shouldn't put blood onto the strip until it's in the meter and the meter is showing the symbol to say it's ready for blood.  But if I put the stip in my meter before I have blood ready my meter often times out before I have blood (not because I squeeze my finger - I don't ever do that, it hurts! - but because my fingers are so cold).


I have everything ready, but leave the strip insertion until I have stabbed and got the bead of blood - so far I have not wasted any strips


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## Felinia (Sep 24, 2019)

I'm beginning to wonder if the set up or machine is faulty, and it's not just me being stupid.  I got everything ready, put in the strip, and within 5 seconds got the error message, before I'd even got blood to the strip.  So it wasn't me trying to put in blood before the machine was ready.  It seems each machine is a bit different, but the overall principle is the same.  I'm just about ready now after a day of trying, to give up and get face to face help.  But thanks everyone - I will get there eventually.


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## rebrascora (Sep 24, 2019)

Hi.... It does sound like the meter may be faulty..... assuming you didn't put a used strip back in the machine. If it was a new strip which had never touched blood then it is either a dodgy meter or a dodgy pot of strips. I can imagine you must be feeling very frustrated..... bad enough being anxious with having diabetes and figuring out what to eat but even more so when the machine which is supposed to make that easier, causes more aggravation!


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## Drummer (Sep 24, 2019)

Hmm - is the strip the right way up?


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## Felinia (Sep 25, 2019)

Well yippee!! It worked fine first time this morning, after I'd reset the lancet to 3.  No problem with blood this time - bled for England.  Now I need someone to confirm what I already suspected - the reading before breakfast is 9.8 mmol and I think that is considered high?  I'll take it again when I get back from the vet, which should be around 2 hours after breakfast.


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## Docb (Sep 25, 2019)

Yep, 9.8 is a bit high and it will be informative to see your reading after 2 hrs.  

How are you with spreadsheets?  If OK, then now is the time to get one going to record the numbers as you get them.  If not, then get a notebook and start writing them down.


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## Felinia (Sep 25, 2019)

I took the reading exactly 2 hours after downing 2 small poached free range farm eggs, on 2 medium slices from a small (400gm) wholemeal Warburtons loaf.  The reading was 10.3.  The kit came with a purpose built notebook for recording measurements which I will do.  I'm guessing that was not much of a spike (at least I hope not).  I don't want to get obsessed with constant recordings, but I will try out all my different breakfasts and lunches over the next few days.  I am keen to see how my various oat breakfasts fare, and with fruit or chopped nuts.  Lunch is always home made soup or salad, so plenty of veggies with added protein like chopped chicken or bacon lardons, but no more bread.  I also want to check my readings before and after my 1 hour Aquafit classes.


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## Pine Marten (Sep 25, 2019)

A 2-hour reading of 10.3 after a pre-meal reading of 9.8 is pretty good, as the ideal is not to go more than 2 or 3 whole numbers. The first reading was rather high, so this is what needs to come down a bit. However, that was an excellent breakfast, and you're gaining more info as you go along.

Well done on getting the hang of the meter too!


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## Felinia (Sep 25, 2019)

Pine Marten said:


> A 2-hour reading of 10.3 after a pre-meal reading of 9.8 is pretty good, as the ideal is not to go more than 2 or 3 whole numbers. The first reading was rather high, so this is what needs to come down a bit. However, that was an excellent breakfast, and you're gaining more info as you go along.
> 
> Well done on getting the hang of the meter too!


I took the first reading before having anything - not even a glass of water.  Should I have taken all my other medications, which include Fybogel and Benecol (both GP prescribed) and had a cup of tea first, or should the pre-breakfast reading be a fasting reading?  I normally have my breakfast about 30 minutes after my medications and cuppa number 1.  Today I had it straight after, as I was dashing off to the vet with Pussifer Kattus and her ear mites!


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## Pine Marten (Sep 25, 2019)

The first (fasting) test in the morning should be as soon as you get up - I know some people here test as soon as they wake up, before getting out of bed, although I've not done that. It's normally the last one to come down as there is a thing called the 'dawn phenomenon' where the liver dumps extra glucose into the blood. It's difficult to fix but you could, eg., avoid carby snacks before bed, but it's another of those pesky try it and see things.

The test before breakfast (and other meals) should be done immediately before eating, then again 2 hours after as you've been doing. I don't think the medications make any difference, but maybe someone else will have more info.

PS I hope Puss gets treatment for the ear mites ok  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (I have always been owned by cats!)


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## Felinia (Sep 25, 2019)

Pine Marten said:


> The first (fasting) test in the morning should be as soon as you get up - I know some people here test as soon as they wake up, before getting out of bed, although I've not done that. It's normally the last one to come down as there is a thing called the 'dawn phenomenon' where the liver dumps extra glucose into the blood. It's difficult to fix but you could, eg., avoid carby snacks before bed, but it's another of those pesky try it and see things.
> 
> The test before breakfast (and other meals) should be done immediately before eating, then again 2 hours after as you've been doing. I don't think the medications make any difference, but maybe someone else will have more info.
> 
> ...


Thanks.  I think my 1st reading was both as soon as I got up and before eating - 2 in 1 so to speak as I was in a rush.  Puss' ears are much better - she had one more treatment and I take her back in another month.  Since posting I've done my before and after lunch.  Before 9.2, home made chicken and veggie soup, 2 hours after 7.1.  So I guess this soup passes the test.  I try not to eat or drink at all after 6pm, due to my hiatus hernia.  Otherwise I get reflux in bed.  By the way, we're the same age!!


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## Drummer (Sep 25, 2019)

If you really need bread - I have bread with kippers because they are too strong a taste without it, but I love kippers, try a Livlife loaf - I get mine from Waitrose. Ordinary bread is just too high carb for me and for many type twos.
Watch how much fruit you add to your porridge, as that is a high carb meal, and chose low carb veges for your soup as a few starchy ones can soon push up the carb count. You might like my take on cauliflower cheese, which seems to be a popular one, it is simply putting almost cooked cauliflower into a warm dish, cover with cream cheese and then grated cheese - I like Red Leicester, but others add paprika after the cream cheese, and then a strong blue cheese, but that would have my taste buds in a panic.


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## Pine Marten (Sep 25, 2019)

Felinia said:


> Thanks.  I think my 1st reading was both as soon as I got up and before eating - 2 in 1 so to speak as I was in a rush.  Puss' ears are much better - she had one more treatment and I take her back in another month.  Since posting I've done my before and after lunch.  Before 9.2, home made chicken and veggie soup, 2 hours after 7.1.  So I guess this soup passes the test.  I try not to eat or drink at all after 6pm, due to my hiatus hernia.  Otherwise I get reflux in bed.  By the way, we're the same age!!


Glad to hear the feline ears are better - life with pets can be stressful, can't it?! 

Like Drummer I get Livlife from Waitrose, although it took me a while to get used to it as it has a slightly odd texture. I also have Burgen or Hovis Nimble to ring the changes. It sounds to me like you're getting a handle on all this, and with a positive attitude you'll be fine.

As to being the same age  my current profile pic was taken some...ahem!...years ago, at one of the medieval banquets put on by the society I'm in. Happy days!


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## Felinia (Sep 25, 2019)

Drummer said:


> If you really need bread - I have bread with kippers because they are too strong a taste without it, but I love kippers, try a Livlife loaf - I get mine from Waitrose. Ordinary bread is just too high carb for me and for many type twos.
> Watch how much fruit you add to your porridge, as that is a high carb meal, and chose low carb veges for your soup as a few starchy ones can soon push up the carb count. You might like my take on cauliflower cheese, which seems to be a popular one, it is simply putting almost cooked cauliflower into a warm dish, cover with cream cheese and then grated cheese - I like Red Leicester, but others add paprika after the cream cheese, and then a strong blue cheese, but that would have my taste buds in a panic.


Told not to have ANY fruit with main meals, only as a snack and never more than one type at a time.  Conflicting info re cereals:  Don't have at all due to high carbs, only have with nuts and seeds, or have with boiled eggs (?!?!).  I can't eat most bread - I'm gluten intolerant - but WW or Warburtons medium slice from small loaf seems to be OK.  I'll try LivLife and see how the monitoring (and Diverticular Disease side effects) goes.  I don't put potato or starchy veggies in my soups, but use beans (butter, cannellini, haricot, borlotti) instead for their protein.  I only have low fat or fat free dairy (high cholesterol) and have stopped yogurt, cheese, quark completely.  I think it will be a case of trial and error, and slowly trying different foods at first.  That's how I advise people learning to live with Diverticular Disease.


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## Felinia (Sep 25, 2019)

Pine Marten said:


> Glad to hear the feline ears are better - life with pets can be stressful, can't it?!
> 
> Like Drummer I get Livlife from Waitrose, although it took me a while to get used to it as it has a slightly odd texture. I also have Burgen or Hovis Nimble to ring the changes. It sounds to me like you're getting a handle on all this, and with a positive attitude you'll be fine.
> 
> As to being the same age  my current profile pic was taken some...ahem!...years ago, at one of the medieval banquets put on by the society I'm in. Happy days!


I'm 69!  I couldn't get on with Burgen, but Nimble was OK - it's much the same as WW.  I tried Genius for a time, but it tended to disintegrate, so I decided to go without instead!  Puss is a rescue and has taken about a year to settle with me, but we've got there.


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## Pine Marten (Sep 25, 2019)

I'm 69 until next February - although I only admit to 29  I liked being 29 so thought I'd stay there!

Interesting about Puss, after one of ours died we fostered Mandy from the RSPCA, then took her on permanently when no one wanted her. That was in 2010 when she was about 6 months old. She's our only cat now, our old girl Molly left us at nearly 20 yrs old in May 2018. I still mourn all my lost moggies


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## Drummer (Sep 25, 2019)

Felinia said:


> Told not to have ANY fruit with main meals, only as a snack and never more than one type at a time.  Conflicting info re cereals:  Don't have at all due to high carbs, only have with nuts and seeds, or have with boiled eggs (?!?!).  I can't eat most bread - I'm gluten intolerant - but WW or Warburtons medium slice from small loaf seems to be OK.  I'll try LivLife and see how the monitoring (and Diverticular Disease side effects) goes.  I don't put potato or starchy veggies in my soups, but use beans (butter, cannellini, haricot, borlotti) instead for their protein.  I only have low fat or fat free dairy (high cholesterol) and have stopped yogurt, cheese, quark completely.  I think it will be a case of trial and error, and slowly trying different foods at first.  That's how I advise people learning to live with Diverticular Disease.


It seems strange about the fruit - you were advised to eat it when it will have most impact on BG levels - very odd. The Livlife is only 4 gm per slice which is why it is a good choice for diabetes. Beans can have quite an impact on BG levels, if you want protein then chicken or some other meat might be a better option. 
High cholesterol doesn't seem to be as a result of eating fats - first eggs and then other foods have been exonerated by actually testing, not making guesses without checking. 
All you can do is check how various foods affect you both for BG and the diverticular problem.


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## Felinia (Sep 25, 2019)

Pine Marten said:


> I'm 69 until next February - although I only admit to 29  I liked being 29 so thought I'd stay there!
> 
> Interesting about Puss, after one of ours died we fostered Mandy from the RSPCA, then took her on permanently when no one wanted her. That was in 2010 when she was about 6 months old. She's our only cat now, our old girl Molly left us at nearly 20 yrs old in May 2018. I still mourn all my lost moggies


Well I've now completed a day's monitoring.  Don't know if it's good or bad.
Pre breakfast 9.8, Post breakfast 10.3
Pre lunch 9.2, Post lunch 7.1
Pre dinner 7.0, Post dinner 10.5 
But I did have 2 mugs of tea before measuring - should I have waited until after?  I understand a spike of 3 or more is not good, but all I had was one 110gm pork chop, all fat removed before cooking; 55gm boiled potato (3 baby ones), cauliflower, runner beans, Brussels sprouts, 2 tbsp gravy.
I took Tufty on just after my 17 year old much loved puss died.  She's totally different, and quite a character.  I've had more "presents" from her this summer, than the previous 25 years put together!


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## Felinia (Oct 13, 2019)

Tomorrow I finally get my Oviva face to face training course, so reviewed the online training manual.  It did indeed confirm what the dietician told me - fruit should be limited to a small portion of a single fruit, at least 2 hours away from a meal.  And it did it in 2 different places!  But rather than remove beans and pulses from soups and stews, it said to use them to add fibre to the meals, as fibre slows down absorption, just be aware of the carb content.  Also black tea, coffee and sugar free squash do count towards your water intake.  So it sounds to me like the left and right hand in Oviva don't know what the other is doing in some cases!  And we wonder why we get confused???


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## Drummer (Oct 13, 2019)

So you are cutting off fat and adding potatoes - and seeing higher numbers. Hmm.
Legumes not only cause spikes for me, they go higher than the carb count would imply - so not on my menu.
It is all very well for advisers to advise, but when they do so and are contradicted by numbers on a BG meter, I know what I'd rather act on.


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