# 'Mild' diabetes



## Sparkle (May 12, 2020)

Hello, I have just been told by phone that I have 'mild diabetes type 2' I didn't know there was such a thing as 'mild' and am confused. Also I wasn't expecting to have diabetes at all! Doc said nothing to worry about, cut down on sweet things a bit. Telephone with diabetic nurse next week. He is going to write me a prescription for a med to start immediately, can't remember exact name - metaforlin? Something like that.  Will I have to test my blood every day?


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## SB2015 (May 12, 2020)

There is indeed no ‘mild’ diabetes.  Your GP may have meant that your glucose levels are right at the top of the normal range, or just above, and that is the term he uses for this.  If so I is great that yours has been picked up early. 

It is important to realise that it is not just sugar that will be converted to glucose once inside you.  This applies to ALL carbohydrates.  This includes pasta, potatoes, rice, ... I knew nothing about this when diagnosed but soon learnt.  It is worth familiarising you urself with what the carbs are in different foods, you can then choose what swaps to make where needed.

Diabetes is a serious condition, but it’s also one that can usually be managed well with a few changes and adaptations - and it shouldn’t stop you doing things you enjoy. Try not to be disheartened, many people on the forum later reflect that their diagnosis became a catalyst which prompted them to make positive changes towards a healthier and more active life.

Many on here choose to test their glucose levels. You can use a BG meter, taking a reading before and 2 hrs after eating to see how food is affecting you as an individual (everyone is different, and it’s important to understand your own tolerances and ‘safe choices’). The numbers themselves don't matter so much at the beginning, it is the difference between them - the ‘meal rise‘ which you want to keep as near to 2-3mmol/L as you can. If you happen to identify any carbs that seem to be making your BG rise quickly after a meal you can then experiment with reducing amounts or swapping types (sometimes just having things at a different time of day makes a difference).

If you are interested in this apporach you may find test-review-adjustby Alan S a helpful framework.
If you have to fund your own meter, a key factor is the ongoing cost of the stips - One of the most affordable meters members here have found is from SD, and has been recently updated to the SD Gluco Navii which has test strips at around £8 for 50

For a bit more background information, the ‘useful links’ thread is a mine of helpful information - useful-links-for-people-new-to-diabetes

Members here frequently recommend Maggie Davey’s Letterand Gretchen Becker’s book, as very helpful starting points.


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## Pine Marten (May 12, 2020)

Hi @Sparkle, I got told exactly that when I was diagnosed after a routine blood test in 2007! I knew nothing about diabetes, was given some diet sheets and that was about that... in 2013 I discovered this wonderful forum, so you are fortunate in finding us so quickly!

Do you know what your HbA1c is? This is the test used for diagnosis, and is a number: 42-48 is what's called pre-diabetic, anything over that is diabetic (I was something like 108!). They should give you this information if they haven't already, and I suspect that if they've prescribed Metformin already you may be in the diabetic range. However, there is plenty you can do to help yourself, including having a read around the different parts of this forum  

Most of us type 2s here have found that cutting down on starchy carbs like bread, potatoes, rice, pasta, cereals (not just the obvious sweet things) have a remarkable effect in lowering our BG (blood glucose) and so helping control our condition. Another good thing is increasing exercise a bit (no need to go mad) and losing a bit of weight if necessary. With a few tweaks here and there it is amazing what can be achieved.

I'll leave it there at the moment, but no doubt others will be along to welcome you and give some links to reading matter, etc.


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## Toucan (May 12, 2020)

Hello @Sparkle and welcome to the forum.

The symptoms of Diabetes are not always obvious, so diagnosis can come as something of a shock.
As the Doctor has described it as mild, I am guessing this means that your blood sugars are not too far above normal.
What is surprising though is that they are putting you on metformin immediately, as it is sometimes worth trying to try to adjust by dietary changes first. When you have contact with the nurse, try to find out what your measurement is. Anything above 48, is considered to be in the diabetic range.

Diabetes is a serious disease, but it can be positively managed and in many circumstances, you can do a lot to help yourself and there is a help and support available. You will need to make a few changes though, and these need to be sustainable, as this is for the long term.

There are 3 main things to consider:
Firstly, healthy eating, and the right solution for you to lower your blood sugars, and if you are overweight, loosing weight will help a lot. Secondly increasing exercise, and thirdly medication which may be necessary depending on what your HB1ac readings are.

For me, a new way of eating, and increased exercise, plus some metformin has worked. As well as cutting out all the sugary things, I cut down on the carbs particularly the ‘white’ ones (white bread and flour,rice,pasta,etc ) and mainly eat fish, poultry, yoghurt, some cheeses, nuts and seeds, and have learned to love vegetables . I also try to avoid too much processed food.

In answer to your question regarding daily blood tests. You don't have to do this, but many of us do as it is helpful with monitoring and finding out which foods affect us most.

If you want to know more about the Low-Carb way of eating then Maggie Davey's letter, shows how this lady approached the problem.
If you are considering getting a glucose meter then SD Gluco Navii is one that many people use, and test-review-adjust gives information on how to go about testing.

I hope this doesn't all sound too confusing, but please ask about anything you would like to know more about and we are always here to try and help.
There is also a TAB at the top of this page 'Learning Zone' which you may also find helpful


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## Sparkle (May 12, 2020)

Thank you so much everyone. Such kind and helpful responses.  I didn't realise until I read the comment above about it being a shock that I AM shocked and more upset than I realised!  I know absolutely nothing about it at all.  I thought it was just things like sweets and desserts I shouldn't eat.
  I am a wheelchair user and can't  exercise at all but had already been trying to loose weight  (about 2 stone) and be healthier by eating brown bread, pasta, jacket potatoes and rice and fruit which I thought was a good thing to do but if I understand correctly now it seems they are all things that maybe I shouldn't be eating?  I have ready meals quite often too like lasagna and ready to cook things like fish fingers as my husband does not like cooking and quite honestly is not very good at it! 
 I have swallowing and GI issues so am already fairly limited. I can't eat nuts and seeds, lettuce or a lot of salad things, some fruits,  spicy food, acidic food,  peppers - the list goes on.
 I am partially sighted so not into reading books but I will check out the links and try and find out as much as I can from all the advice given here.
  Please don't think I am stupid but do I need to immediately make complete changes or can I try and work something out over the next few days?  It looks like I will have to throw away a lot of my freezer contents.
  Also, I get an online shop once a week so I will have to sort that out and incorporate changes but can't get any shopping before that as I am sheilding and my husband is self isolating.
  I will make some notes of questions to ask nurse next week, if anyone has suggestions to add to my list I would appreciate it. So far from you comments I have  'ask my HbA1c level,' which I have never heard of.
 Oh dear, reading that back it looks like a load of excuses but truly it isn't, I am just overwhelmed and not sure what to do first! Thanks again for your kind and helpful comments.


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## Pine Marten (May 12, 2020)

Don't worry, Sparkle, we've all been there! No, you don't have to change everything immediately, it's an ongoing process - a marathon not a sprint, as they say...

It's very useful to find out your Hba1c number to establish how 'mild' you are, and you have every right to have access to your records. And yes, my diet sheets advised jacket spuds, pasta, rice, and I thought yum yum, this is a bit of alright! result: I put on a couple of stone and was prescribed Metformin. If you can, try changing to lower carb versions, eg., Burgen bread or Hovis Low Carb loaf, sweet potato instead of spuds (some people find these better, but some don't), and limit fruit to the berries like strawbs, rasps, blackberries. 

Also, there are many good cooks here who can suggest recipes or suitable foods, and there are posts on the Food & Recipes thread, or the What Did You Eat Yesterday? one which might interest you.

Above all, don't think you are silly for asking any questions, no question is daft and someone here is bound to have the answer! We have all had to go through the learning process, but it is entirely worth it to take control of your condition and hopefully see much improvement.


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## trophywench (May 12, 2020)

No such thing as 'mild' diabetes or 'pre' diabetes - diabetes in my book (and Alan Shanley's FWIW) is similar to pregnancy - you either ARE or you AIN'T !

Given therefore that you ARE - cut the carbohydrates down generally any way you can because of the 3 food groups (ie carbs, protein and fat) carbs are the non-essential one for all human beings since the body can make glucose (which all our bodily cells require in order to function) out of all 3 food groups, but converting the carbs is easiest so when we're getting enough carb it just stores up the glucose from the other 2 sources as body fat either the sort you can see outwardly or internally around the organs (heart. kidneys, liver etc|) and also excretes some of the spare via the bladder.  Because this latter means the spare glucose has to be filtered via the kidneys and the kidneys aren't primarily designed to filter glucose - this damages the kidneys!


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## Drummer (May 12, 2020)

Once you get the hang of what you can and can't eat it is rather a doddle - I get packs of fresh and frozen stuff - though you;ll probably need to see what you can and can't eat. 
Some things can seem rather odd, like cutting slices of cabbage and roasting them in a tray, or using cauliflower to replace rice, leek to replace lasagna, but they soon become quite normal.


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## GonnaMissPizza (May 12, 2020)

Your Drs probably just trying not to scare you by saying its 'Mild'. I was diagnosed in March this year and my HBA1C was 116  and given medication.

At the time i had an accident at work which left me unable to walk or excersice and i would have switched to brown bread, brown rice, pasta, fruits etc thinking its healthy for me. Dieting was the only thing i could do but it made a huge difference.

Luckily i found this forum and learnt plenty of helpful information and i feel much better. If you start mesuring your Blood Glucose levels at the start they maybe high but dont worry. Once you change your diet slowly you will notice it go down and stay steady.

If you get a Blood Glucose reader keep a food diary. It will be trial and error on what foods give you a spike in levels and which dont so writing them down will help because its not always the same for everyone.

Am looking forward to my next test with the nurse because am sure my HBA1C must have gone down a fair amount now.

Good luck on your new journey. Take it slow and steady. Its not a race. No need to throw away all the food you have at home  You will be fine.


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## Sparkle (May 12, 2020)

I've just read the open letter, there is a bit in it that says, "_I would also decide how I was going to keep track of all this information - it's far too much, especially in the beginning, to remember it all. A notebook of some sort would do. If you have a computer, you can download the Health Diabetes software [see Resources], which makes it easier to keep track of it all and produces graphs of everything and is free." _  The link doesn't work, does anyone have any suggestions for recording stuff  other than physically writing it down please?


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## Sparkle (May 12, 2020)

Anitram said:


> I set up a spreadsheet to record the results of my finger-prick tests (so that I could insert graphs and calculate trends) and the carbohydrate, calories, fat, protein and fibre of everything I was eating. I was diagnosed in March 2019 so I have over a year's data now and have found it invaluable in managing my diet and consequently my BG levels, so much so that I was able to come off medication and continue by diet alone.
> 
> Martin


Thanks for responding Martin and wow, that is amazing! I was hoping to find something already made and simple that I could use like the author of the letter is talking about.


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## Sparkle (May 12, 2020)

GonnaMissPizza said:


> Your Drs probably just trying not to scare you by saying its 'Mild'. I was diagnosed in March this year and my HBA1C was 116  and given medication.
> 
> At the time i had an accident at work which left me unable to walk or excersice and i would have switched to brown bread, brown rice, pasta, fruits etc thinking its healthy for me. Dieting was the only thing i could do but it made a huge difference.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I forgot to say thank you.


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## rebrascora (May 12, 2020)

There are apps which are really great. I use one called Blood Sugar Tracker powered by meL Studio which my sister downloaded for me from Google Play Store.... I am a bit of a technophobe but really find the app fantastic and I wouldn't be without it but many people here on the forum recommend the "My Sugr" app I think.I don't know if that is better than the one I use or not as I haven't tried it.


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## Felinia (May 12, 2020)

Lots of excellent advice here which I won't repeat.  I was diagnosed with an HbA1c of 57 (that's blood glucose averaged over 90 days) in August 2019.  I spoke to my diabetic nurse and she told me my GP practise gave everyone with a reading less than 60 a 3 month period to try and reduce their blood glucose by changing their eating and exercising only, rather than go thundering in with medication straight away.  I got mine down to 48 in the 3 months, by reducing my daily carbs to 75-90 gm per day.  I use an app called NutraCheck which is for food and exercise, not blood glucose monitoring.  So depending on what your reading was it might be worth asking if you can try that first.  Metformin has some nasty bowel side effects which being a wheelchair user you might find very awkward to handle.  There is a slow release version which has less side effects.  But if you have to take it, have it in the middle of a meal:  food, pill, food.  
As for exercising, in lockdown it is difficult.  I was in the swimming pool 5 days a week but am now reduced to exercising on my bed, or seated (I have spine and hip issues).  I do stretching exercises lying on the bed or sitting on the edge.  Then I have a mini pedal bike which I have on the kitchen table where I do arm exercises when waiting for the kettle to boil.  I then have it on the floor and do leg exercises, both whilst seated.  Stretching keeps me more supple, and the bike gives me a cardio workout.
There is no such thing as a silly question - I asked lots at first.  And the online training is full of information.  Normally you would be offered a Training Course like DESMOND, but I expect that has been suspended for the time being, so DUK is the best place to learn.


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## Drummer (May 12, 2020)

When I needed to make shopping lists I just used two postcards - with two separate lists which I used alternately for variation - I still rarely buy tomatoes and mushrooms at the same time as they were in different lists back then.


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## Sparkle (May 14, 2020)

Hello everyone, I just got my meds. Metformin, 500mg  twice a day.


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## Felinia (May 14, 2020)

Sparkle said:


> Hello everyone, I just got my meds. Metformin, 500mg  twice a day.


What was your HbA1c?


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## rebrascora (May 14, 2020)

Make sure to take them mid meal with a substantial amount of food to reduce the risk of digestive upset. 
I would guess that your HbA1c was moderately high to start you on a dose of 2 a day which doesn't really tie in with calling it "mild diabetes" or the GP is hoping that hitting it hard with medication in the early stages might push it back. without knowing your HbA1c we are just guessing what the thought process is though. Shame that real discussions about treatment options are not happening in these first instances.


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## Sparkle (May 14, 2020)

Thank you for the advice. I have made a note to ask what my HbA1c is when the Nurse phones next week.


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## Sparkle (Jun 3, 2020)

Hi, I'm not sure if I asked the right question, but the nurse said my number is 9


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## rebrascora (Jun 3, 2020)

9 sounds like a blood glucose reading usually from a finger prick test, but in order to diagnose you with diabetes they would need to do an HbA1c test. This is usually expressed as a number above 48 for diabetes.... or ..... pre diabetes, which is actually an indication that you are at risk of developing diabetes, is between 42 and 47. HbA1c can sometimes be given as a percentage (this is the older way of expressing it) in which case an HbA1c of 9% would equate to about 75 in the new units which is not what I would describe as "mild" diabetes but more moderate. Without specifically asking what your HbA1c reading is, we would be guessing as to whether that reading was a BG reading of 9 which is just a spot check at any moment in time and as BG will vary depending on what you have last eaten and when and if you have had any exercise etc, it doesn't tell you a great deal on it's own, whereas the HbA1c gives you a sort of average of your BG readings for the past 3 months.... it is a bit more complicated than that but don't really need to baffle you with science at this stage.


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## Sparkle (Jun 3, 2020)

Thank you for explaining. I had a finger prick test which prompted a proper blood test  (from my arm) a week later which I think I was told measured the last three months. From that I had a phone call saying I had mild diabetes (totally unexpected shock)and was put on metformin the same day.


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## Felinia (Jun 3, 2020)

The proper blood test measuring the last 3 months is the HbA1c.  If the 9 given to you was 9% from the HbA1c, then Metformin would be the usual treatment.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Jun 4, 2020)

Sparkle said:


> Hi, I'm not sure if I asked the right question, but the nurse said my number is 9



Hello again @Sparkle 

Did you get any units with that number - its hard to know how to understand or interpret it without!

It might be 9% (and old way of recording HbA1c) which is quite high. 

Or it might be 9mmol/L which is a slightly high spot-check BG but may not be so concerning.


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## Sparkle (Jun 4, 2020)

Sorry, I just said 'what was my number?'(I assumed it was the result of the full blood test)  and that was the response. So I didn't ask the question exactly right. Oops.


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## SueEK (Jun 4, 2020)

Hello @Sparkle, just wanted to say hi and welcome to you. You have been given great advice and all I would add is that take it all in and adapt when you can, you don’t need to do everything straight away but the changes you make, if you follow the advice, will be really beneficial to you and I’m sure will not only lower your bg level but make you feel better too. Ask any questions at all, especially those that you think are ‘silly’ or ‘stupid’ because it is often these little things that we simply don’t know the answer to. We have all been where you are now and more than happy to help. Take care x


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## Sparkle (Jun 4, 2020)

Thank you


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## Sparkle (Jun 4, 2020)

Thanks everyone, I have lots of questions, I won't ask them all at once! . I am not sure if I should start a new thread for each question so I will start here and see what happens, hope that's ok. Firstly, I asked Diabetic Nurse yesterday if it would be ok to eat a small piece of cake made with (quote from maker)
"_agave syrup instead of sugar and dried fruit and fresh fruit. They're generally lower carb than normal cakes because I use ground almonds with the flour or only ground almonds. Eg beetroot and avocado cake made with soya yogurt" _
The Nurse said,
_ "in diabetics the pancreas doesn’t recognise sugar substitues so it will respond in the same way as it would with sugar which is not good."  _
I see there are cake recipes on this site that use sugar substitutes. This is confusing me. What do you lot think? Not that I am trying to find cakes to eat after only just being diagnosed, it popped up on my facebook.


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## Sparkle (Jun 4, 2020)

Also, I was sent some diabetic 'goodies' as a cheer me up gift (not to do with diabetes) and I don't think I should eat them at all. What do you think please?


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## Two_Hares (Jun 4, 2020)

Sparkle said:


> I've just read the open letter, there is a bit in it that says, "_I would also decide how I was going to keep track of all this information - it's far too much, especially in the beginning, to remember it all. A notebook of some sort would do. If you have a computer, you can download the Health Diabetes software [see Resources], which makes it easier to keep track of it all and produces graphs of everything and is free." _  The link doesn't work, does anyone have any suggestions for recording stuff  other than physically writing it down please?



Hi @Sparkle, I am T2 as well.  I use an app called MySugr which seems pretty straightforward to use.  It just records your readings though (and you can add in carb count if you want), so I bought a separate journal from Etsy (I just searched something along the lines of 'diabetes journal') and there it lets me record my food alongside the BG readings.  I figured that when I do see a DSN or nutritionist face to face I can take it along and they can have an 'at a glance' view of what I've been doing.

I also have written down a list of carby foods in my phone that I am testing every so often to see how much it affects my BG...so far I've found out that couscous is a no for me, I don't get on with wholemeal wraps but I can use white ones and I seem to be okay with lower carb bread.  I'll gradually go through it to see what I can and can't manage so that might be something to try out as well.  (Although I am new to this too so might not be the thing to do - I'm sure someone else will let us know if not!)


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## rebrascora (Jun 4, 2020)

Without being able to see the nutritional info on those products it would be difficult to say whether they are OK or not. You need to look at the carbohydrate content usually on the back of the packets/wrappers. I have had people buy me sugar free sweets and they sometimes have as many carbs as other sweets but just not in the form of sugar. The body breaks down all carbs into glucose. It breaks down sugar slightly faster than other carbs but they all still get broken down, so you often don't gain much from the sugar free versions and taste wise they are often not as good.... also some of the artificial sweeteners they use can cause diarrhoea. 
Many of us still eat chocolate but we buy high cocoa content chocolate which is 70% or more and only have one square a day. I usually have it with a spoonful of crunchy peanut butter to make it more satisfying and take some of the bitterness off it.

As regards the cakes made with agave syrup. From a quick bit of research, it is something like 77g carbs in 100g product or which 70g is fructose and 7g is glucose. The body will break the fructose down and absorb it with the glucose, so this is not a suitable product. Many of us use Stevia as an alternative sweetener for baking as it has zero carbs. Many people use ground almonds as a part flour replacement and also coconut flour and a bit of spelt flour in baking along with some psyllium husk, but there are some serious environmental issues with almond production so you have to make your own mind up whether to use it or not or in what quantity if you do.
@NotWorriedAtAll is one of our star bakers and had a FB page I believe with many of her low carb baking wonders, so cakes do not necessarily need to be off the menu but you do need to learn to read nutritional info on products to figure out which are a bit of a con when it comes to diabetes. 
I got caught out in a pub when I ordered a Slimline tonic but they gave me a FeverTree no added sugar tonic water and my BG inexplicably rose by several points (I was driving and because I am Type 1 and use insulin I need to test before I drive, so I took a reading before I started the engine to drive to the pub and when I left after my "slim line" tonic to drive home and was horrified to find how high it had gone!) Turns out FeverTree contains fructose (like the Agave syrup)

The best way to find out what you can get away with eating and what causes your BG to go too high is to get a BG meter and test before eating it and 2 hours after. Only that will tell YOU what YOUR body will tolerate. We can tell you what our bodies will or will not tolerate.... or should I say, what spikes our BG by more than 3 mmols which is the maximum acceptable rise 2 hours after eating something.


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## trophywench (Jun 4, 2020)

Watch it with lo-sugar sweets - the sweeteners used are often laxative!


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## Sparkle (Jun 4, 2020)

Thanks for the heads up re laxative effects and the app info.

@rebrascora thank you for such a comprehensive answer, I really do appreciate it. I've read it a few times now and it hasn't made much of an inroad into my brain yet! Oh my goodness, I have so much to learn regarding carbs, sugars and labels!  I asked nurse about me checking my own blood and she said it isn't necessary so I don't have a machine.   Now I'm wondering why she said that when everyone else seems to have one.


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## silentsquirrel (Jun 4, 2020)

Sparkle said:


> Thanks everyone, I have lots of questions, I won't ask them all at once! . I am not sure if I should start a new thread for each question so I will start here and see what happens, hope that's ok. Firstly, I asked Diabetic Nurse yesterday if it would be ok to eat a small piece of cake made with (quote from maker)
> "_agave syrup instead of sugar and dried fruit and fresh fruit. They're generally lower carb than normal cakes because I use ground almonds with the flour or only ground almonds. Eg beetroot and avocado cake made with soya yogurt" _
> The Nurse said,
> _ "in diabetics the pancreas doesn’t recognise sugar substitues so it will respond in the same way as it would with sugar which is not good."  _
> I see there are cake recipes on this site that use sugar substitutes. This is confusing me. What do you lot think? Not that I am trying to find cakes to eat after only just being diagnosed, it popped up on my facebook.View attachment 14400


Probably the nurse meant by "sugar substitutes" things like agave syrup, honey, maple syrup rather than sweeteners.  Some people think such things are better than sugar because they are "natural".  Afraid not, still high carb, as is dried fruit and many fruits.  Berries are the lowest carb fruits, so usually OK in moderation.

Some people's bgs are affected by artificial sweeteners, but others find them fine.  But do watch out for the laxative effect!

Cakes made with ground almonds, sweetener and maybe a few berries may be fine for you, you need to try and test.


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## Sparkle (Jun 4, 2020)

Crikey, I was eating a lot of fresh fruit and nurse advised me to cut it down which I have, but didn't think of dried fruit when we were talking about fruit intake. I have been having dried apricots and dates on my porridge! Oh boy, I feel stupid!


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## rebrascora (Jun 4, 2020)

Unfortunately Health Care Professionals do not understand how powerful a low carb diet can be on managing diabetes.... in many cases much more powerful than most medication and they worry that that people will get obsessive about checking their BG and there are not enough funds to cover the prescription of meters and test strips for all Type 2s anymore. Most Type 2s here on the forum self fund and we recommend they choose the BG meter with the cheapest test strips because you go through a lot of test strips in the first couple of months of trying to figure out which foods you can get away with and the portion size and which you need to avoid, so it makes financial sense to use a meter which has the cheapest test strips. For this reason, the SD Gluco Navii Blood Glucose Meter or the Spirit Healthcare Tee2 are the most used by those who self fund. The meters themselves are relatively inexpensive at approx. £15 for either of those two mentioned and additional test strips are £8 for a pot of 50. I would recommend you purchase a minimum of 2x pots of 50 extra strips with your meter if you decide to buy one as you go through a pot in about a week. This is only until you establish how you respond to foods and work out a new dietary regime and then you will need to test much less often. 

Some people liken trying to control your diabetes without a BG meter as similar to driving without a speedometer... You can try to follow the guidelines but you have no real idea of whether you are staying within a safe limit until you get a speeding fine through the door or you get your next HbA1c which might be 3 months or 12 months down the line. 

The vast experience and shared knowledge of this forum suggests a BG meter is an invaluable tool in helping you to manage your diabetes through food. I have taken the advice of this forum against the advice of nurses and GPs and found it to be correct for me as have many others and my BG meter and subsequent HbA1c readings and cholesterol readings prove that.


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## rebrascora (Jun 4, 2020)

Sparkle said:


> Crikey, I was eating a lot of fresh fruit and nurse advised me to cut it down which I have, but didn't think of dried fruit when we were talking about fruit intake. I have been having dried apricots and dates on my porridge! Oh boy, I feel stupid!



I too substituted dried fruit for other forms of sugar when I was first diagnosed thinking I was doing the right thing.... until I found this forum and people put me straight.... If you were using a BG meter you would have seen that your glucose levels were rising dramatically after eating a breakfast of porridge and dried fruit..... The porridge alone may be causing you problems. It too is mostly carbs and made from grains and whilst many nurses will recommend it, many diabetics who use a BG meter find their system converts it to glucose too quickly for them to include it in their diet.


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## Sparkle (Jun 4, 2020)

Oh my goodness, really?  The Nurse recommended porridge!  I also meant to add that I had about 3 days where I was so tired I slept for most of the time - the tiredness came very suddenly and I felt like I had to sleep straight away.  Nurse has halved my meformin to once a day for two weeks then she will ring me again to see how I am doing. Does this happen to others?


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## rebrascora (Jun 4, 2020)

The tiredness can often be due to high Blood Glucose levels, particularly when you are newly diagnosed and haven't got them under control, but it can be due to other things too, Getting your diabetes under control might resolve it or rule that out so that you could then ask for further tests. Thyroid problems and anaemia are two other possible causes, but the diabetes would be the most likely culprit since you are newly diagnosed and been eating high carb foods.


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## rebrascora (Jun 4, 2020)

Stress can be another cause. It can cause sleeplessness or extreme tiredness to the point of dropping off when you sit in a comfy chair.


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## rebrascora (Jun 4, 2020)

Try a 2egg omelette for breakfast/brunch instead of porridge and have it with a nice leafy salad and a big dollop of creamy coleslaw (not low fat version). I have a variety of fillings including any combination of mushrooms, onion, courgette, peppers, aubergine, ham and cheese.
Or
... many of us have Creamy (whole milk) Natural Greek Yoghurt (not low fat variety which is higher in carbs) with a few (half a dozen or so) berries like rasps or small strawberries (half as many larger ones) and mixed seeds and chopped nuts. The fat in the yoghurt and nuts will keep you feeling full for longer and slow the release of the carbs from the berries.


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## Sparkle (Jun 4, 2020)

Thank you again. I think my head might explode!
 I wouldn't have gone for full fat anything and always have skimmed milk. When I eat raspberries for example, I could eat a punnet in one sitting.  The nurse did tell me to cut down fruit which I thought I had (until I just found out about the apricots)  but 'cut down' is a bit vague.  What a minefield!
 I can't eat salad apart from peeled cucumber  or seeds and nuts and quite a few other things but I have seen you can get flax seed meal from Holland and Barrett which is a ground seed powder. That might work for sprinkling on stuff and have the same effect.
 I thought things like honey were better than sugar... so much I thought I knew and now need to re-learn!
 I am cutting and pasting these bits of advice into word so I can go through it all.  
You lot are so knowlegeable and helpful. Thank you.


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## Sparkle (Jun 4, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> The tiredness can often be due to high Blood Glucose levels, particularly when you are newly diagnosed and haven't got them under control, but it can be due to other things too, Getting your diabetes under control might resolve it or rule that out so that you could then ask for further tests. Thyroid problems and anaemia are two other possible causes, but the diabetes would be the most likely culprit since you are newly diagnosed and been eating high carb foods.


Defo not thyroid or anaemia - have my thyroid tested regularly and spent much of Jan and Feb having blood and iron infusions so my blood count is now very good but thank you for the suggestions, I think that helps rule them out . I literally rolled into bed one night and was asleep before I could even get my ventilator set up so my husband had to wake me and I fell asleep in my chair still holding a drink.


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## rebrascora (Jun 4, 2020)

There is a huge amount to learn and over a year down the line I am still learning and people here with 40 years of diabetes are still learning. Take your time, there is no rush to get it right first time. I bought loads of unsuitable things in the first few months thinking they would be good for me, only to realise how little I understood about diabetes. 

A common phrase here is that it is a marathon not a sprint. Make small steady changes that you can sustain. We are all different in what we like and dislike but also what our bodies like and dislike, the way we break down foods due to the different microbes in our guts, our activity levels and even our DNA can play a part. So many factors affect diabetes, it is a real balancing act and it helps to become the expert in managing your diabetes. A BG meter helps you see what works and what doesn't on a day by day meal by meal basis, so that you can tweak things to keep getting better results..... or see the impact of when you have been naughty and promise/motivate yourself not to be so naughty again..... and we are all naughty occasionally!  For instance a week or so after I was first diagnosed I ate nearly a whole bag of Jacobs Salt and Vinegar crackers and my BG went up to 27 (it should be between 4 and 8.5) and I spent the whole night drinking pint after pint of water and running to the loo to try to flush it out.... I won't ever be that naughty again, as it could have landed me in hospital!


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## grovesy (Jun 4, 2020)

Sparkle said:


> Thanks for the heads up re laxative effects and the app info.
> 
> @rebrascora thank you for such a comprehensive answer, I really do appreciate it. I've read it a few times now and it hasn't made much of an inroad into my brain yet! Oh my goodness, I have so much to learn regarding carbs, sugars and labels!  I asked nurse about me checking my own blood and she said it isn't necessary so I don't have a machine.   Now I'm wondering why she said that when everyone else seems to have one.


Not everyone gets one prescribed and many self fund.


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## Sparkle (Jun 4, 2020)

Thank you. I will certainly consider this as others have mentioned it too. Diabetic nurse said I didn't need one but I am not sure why - I think I will ask her when I speak to her next and then decide.


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## SueEK (Jun 4, 2020)

Sparkle said:


> Thank you. I will certainly consider this as others have mentioned it too. Diabetic nurse said I didn't need one but I am not sure why - I think I will ask her when I speak to her next and then decide.


I was told it was because people can become quite obsessed about testing. To be honest we probably are a bit when first diagnosed but to find out what does and doesn’t spike us it is necessary to keep testing. After a few months you get a really good idea of what you should have and more importantly what you shouldn’t, eg I can tolerate most potatoes but definitely not pasta and only very little rice. Someone else will be able to tolerate rice but perhaps not potatoes, we are all different. Once you know you can adapt your meals so it is much easier to know what to choose and therefore do not need to test.
You mentioned extreme fatigue and again our symptoms can be very different but I am the same, if I have too many carbs I literally crash out, I find it difficult to get from my dining room to the settee in my lounge, it is that sudden and extreme. 
Keep asking questions, make notes and good luck x


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## grovesy (Jun 4, 2020)

I have found over the years what I can tolerate has changed.


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## silentsquirrel (Jun 4, 2020)

Frankly, when poorly controlled diabetes can lead to amputation, loss of sight or needing dialysis, I think a little obsession with good control is no bad thing!


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## Bruce Stephens (Jun 4, 2020)

silentsquirrel said:


> Frankly, when poorly controlled diabetes can lead to amputation, loss of sight or needing dialysis, I think a little obsession with good control is no bad thing!



If the obsessing does actually improve control. And GPs (and specialists) can point at studies which suggest that home blood testing (in general) doesn't do all that much for people with Type 2 (that don't need to do it; some medications force the issue). (I think there's a real question about whether people who _want_ to do it benefit in the long term. That strikes me as plausible even if randomly selected people don't benefit much. (Though Cochrane does now suggest there's evidence supporting short-term use (I think 6 months or something) of home blood tests.))


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## NotWorriedAtAll (Jun 4, 2020)

Hello @Sparkle 
I know exactly what you mean about it being a lot to take in.
I was diagnosed out of the blue but I was so relieved it was 'only' diabetes because the way the GP led up to telling me I thought he was going to tell me I had a terminal illness and only a few weeks to live!!!
It is one way of making the diagnosis less upsetting I suppose.

I'd already been 'eating healthy' according to all the guidelines and then I got my diagnosis so logically I knew the usual advice about eating a low fat diet and having porridge and brown rice and wholemeal bread and lots of fruit was bad for me because that was what got me into this situation in the first place. So I decided to go onto a low carb diet immediately.

But it didn't seem to be doing me as much good as I'd hoped so I progressed quite quickly to a keto diet which is reducing the number of grammes of carbs to fewer than 20 per day.

I go by carbs that can be processed by the body and are available to the body for fuel and don't count carbs that are fibre and basically go straight through without touching the sides - because if they don't get digested then they don't go into the blood stream and won't make any difference to blood sugar levels nor make me put on weight.

I find the best way to find out if something is okay is to check the carbs per 100g and then check the calorie content.
If the carbs per 100g are 4 or lower I am fairly happy to have that in my ingredients repertoire.
If they are zero - I'm delirious - and there are loads of yummy things that are zero - like unprocessed meat and certain cheeses.

If the carbs are high - I check the calorie content and if that is zero then I know the carbs are fibre or something similar and not available to my body and they will probably be okay as an ingredient.

I hope that will be a help while you start out navigating what is likely to cause you grief and what isn't.

Fruitwise - I am okay with berries like strawberries, raspberries, blackberries and other fruit like rhubarb and lemon - I think of them as nature's sweeties and eat them sparingly.

My link to my recipes and adventures in low carb and keto cooking is under this comment in my 'signature' you will be very welcome to have a dig around to see what I've got up there so far. Feel free to message me and ask any questions about the recipes and any you may wish to see low carb versions of.  I enjoy converting non diabetic recipes to ones that are more friendly.


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## Sparkle (Jun 4, 2020)

Thank you very much


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## Felinia (Jun 6, 2020)

trophywench said:


> Watch it with lo-sugar sweets - the sweeteners used are often laxative!


I second that:  my neighbour got some of the offending goodies, her kids found them, scoffed the lot and spent a lot of time in the loo!!


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## Felinia (Jun 6, 2020)

Sparkle said:


> Thank you again. I think my head might explode!
> I wouldn't have gone for full fat anything and always have skimmed milk. When I eat raspberries for example, I could eat a punnet in one sitting.  The nurse did tell me to cut down fruit which I thought I had (until I just found out about the apricots)  but 'cut down' is a bit vague.  What a minefield!
> I can't eat salad apart from peeled cucumber  or seeds and nuts and quite a few other things but I have seen you can get flax seed meal from Holland and Barrett which is a ground seed powder. That might work for sprinkling on stuff and have the same effect.
> I thought things like honey were better than sugar... so much I thought I knew and now need to re-learn!
> ...


Last August I was you, and have slowly learned by using this Forum and member's experience.  A portion of fruit is 80gm and I was told to stick to one or two a day by my DSN (diabetic specialist nurse):  for example I had 40gm blueberries with my breakfast, and will have a small apple with a dollop of full fat Greek yogurt as a snack.  I sadly gave away my much loved maple syrup and bought Truvia instead.  I no longer feel guilty about having some full fat (yippee real bacon) but as I have high cholesterol, I do watch it.  However I still have skimmed milk as I just find semi or full is too rich in tea.  I measure out 170ml first thing and use it during the day, so know how many carbs I have from it daily.  
There are many apps to help record and measure carbs, sugars, cals etc, and getting one was the first thing I invested in.  It gave me a very salutory lesson in portion control, and now I keep digital scales on my kitchen worktop.  So anything with carbs gets weighed before it goes on the plate.  It may seem a palaver, but it only takes a few seconds each time and keeps me honest.


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## Sparkle (Jun 7, 2020)

Thank you


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## leonS (Jun 9, 2020)

looks like she's using old %age measure. If is a good idea to ask for the units, it is a good check to ensure that we are talking avout the right thing.  9% is 75 mmol/mol if I have got my sums right


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## Sparkle (Jun 17, 2020)

Hello everyone, just had my 3rd phone appt with diabetic nurse. She has decided to prescribe me a meter and I am to test before breakfast and tea every day and she will ring me in two weeks to see what my numbers are.


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## rebrascora (Jun 17, 2020)

Good that you are getting a meter but the testing strategy suggested by the nurse will not help you to tailor your diet to your body's tolerance of carbs and therefore not really help you to manage your diabetes through diet. 
Did you manage to confirm your HbA1c reading with the nurse including the unit of measure ie % or mmol/litre etc. I am inclined to think it might be quite high if they are giving you a meter..... or you are very silver tongued!


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## Sparkle (Jun 17, 2020)

She did say she wouldn't usually do it but she was going to pull some strings and put the order through. I think it's because I have many serious health issues and she said something about me needing an indivdual tailored plan so she wanted to see how I am doing over the next two weeks but I can't remember what she said after that. I forgot about the numbers again, oh dear. I had such a long list of questions typed out but the way the conversation went we sort of skipped back and forth between them and I missed that one (and several others) out . I'm not very good at this!


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## Sparkle (Jun 18, 2020)

I just remembered, she said I am looking for to achieve between 7-9


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