# Disipline in schools.



## Steff (Jul 15, 2010)

I was waiting for my mate to meet me like she does every day at the school this morning only to find she was in a head on confrontation with the deputy head of the school, apparently her son came out of school last night saying he had been punched in the face, the boy in question who had done the act is a troublemaker and is always getting in bother and being sent to the head, so this time his mum had had enough and wanted something done about it, when she came over to me and told me what had happened apparently the deputy said oh its to close to finishing for the 6 weeks now to do anything, i could not believe it and nearly fell to the floor, she is talking about taking him of school because she has lost trust and confidence in the school.This child is getting away with it time after time we think because he lives with his gran and grandad as his mum wanted nothing to do with him and this has effected him, i said if thats the case why does he bully every kid he should be took out of the school.

I know im only 27 but when i was in school when things like this happened a child would be punished not just left to get away with it.
Was just wondering what people thoughts were on school discipline these days.

Cheers.


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## AlisonM (Jul 15, 2010)

I've no kids, but my best mate's two went to a really good school where everyone was required to treat everyone else with respect. Failure to do so scored you a number of 'demerits' based on the nature of the offence. If you clocked up enough demerits you were excluded. But, before you got that far there were other 'punishments' which took the form of some kind of public service such as going round with the Meals on Wheels guys and helping deliver food, or helping younger kids with activities. The whole idea was to teach social responsibility and depended on staff following the same rules, it worked. That place was one of the best schools in the region.

Your friend is right to consider moving her child. She should also make a formal complaint to the school's governers and the Local Education Authority.


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## Donald (Jul 15, 2010)

Now I'm led to believe that to a certain degree school staff and parents have their hands tied when it comes to discipline. I have heard reports that some Kids nowadays seem up to speed on their (rights) that teachers cannot discipline a child causing trouble in class in-case they land in trouble with school governors and lose their job or worse to the police. And I have heard of parents landing in trouble with the law for trying to discipline their child getting report by the child or by some Do-gooder. Someone might be able to clarify this better then I can this is what I believe to be the situation.that is my two penney's worth hope it does not upset anyone.


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## Steff (Jul 15, 2010)

AlisonM said:


> I've no kids, but my best mate's two went to a really good school where everyone was required to treat everyone else with respect. Failure to do so scored you a number of 'demerits' based on the nature of the offence. If you clocked up enough demerits you were excluded. But, before you got that far there were other 'punishments' which took the form of some kind of public service such as going round with the Meals on Wheels guys and helping deliver food, or helping younger kids with activities. The whole idea was to teach social responsibility and depended on staff following the same rules, it worked. That place was one of the best schools in the region.
> 
> Your friend is right to consider moving her child. She should also make a formal complaint to the school's governers and the Local Education Authority.




Yeah the system they seem to have at our school is get away with as much as you want until it becomes something serious, they certainly dont believe in nipping it in the bud.If it is not stoppped now i can only imagine how bad it will  get when the kids go up to senior school.I luckily touch wood have had no bother with my son but if they ever was any instances id like to think id be confident enough to believe the school could punish accordingly.


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## Catwoman76 (Jul 15, 2010)

Steffie said:


> I was waiting for my mate to meet me like she does every day at the school this morning only to find she was in a head on confrontation with the deputy head of the school, apparently her son came out of school last night saying he had been punched in the face, the boy in question who had done the act is a troublemaker and is always getting in bother and being sent to the head, so this time his mum had had enough and wanted something done about it, when she came over to me and told me what had happened apparently the deputy said oh its to close to finishing for the 6 weeks now to do anything, i could not believe it and nearly fell to the floor, she is talking about taking him of school because she has lost trust and confidence in the school.This child is getting away with it time after time we think because he lives with his gran and grandad as his mum wanted nothing to do with him and this has effected him, i said if thats the case why does he bully every kid he should be took out of the school.
> 
> I know im only 27 but when i was in school when things like this happened a child would be punished not just left to get away with it.
> Was just wondering what people thoughts were on school discipline these days.
> ...



Hi it's a difficult one steffie. If my child was hurt in that way and I had the same reaction I would be absolutley outraged. I would get in touch with the headteacher and if it's not resolved go to the school governers and have a meeting with them. If your friend is still not satisfied then get in touch with the local education department. The problem is All children require a good education and obviously this child has real emotional problems and takes it out on other children, the worry could be that the said child may harm another child seriously in the future(god forbid). Your friend must feel her child is safe in the school. Tell her not to give up and keep going through the system until it gets resolved, I wish her good luck.Sheena


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## Steff (Jul 15, 2010)

sheena76 said:


> Hi it's a difficult one steffie. If my child was hurt in that way and I had the same reaction I would be absolutley outraged. I would get in touch with the headteacher and if it's not resolved go to the school governers and have a meeting with them. If your friend is still not satisfied then get in touch with the local education department. The problem is All children require a good education and obviously this child has real emotional problems and takes it out on other children, the worry could be that the said child may harm another child seriously in the future(god forbid). Your friend must feel her child is safe in the school. Tell her not to give up and keep going through the system until it gets resolved, I wish her good luck.Sheena




thank you Sheena, she said it will get to the point where someone will turn around and hit this boy back and then themselves will get into trouble, it makes me so mad that a child can do one thing after another but then a person retaliates one time and is in bother.They was even the mentiuon of the police as this at the end of the day is assault.


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## HelenP (Jul 15, 2010)

I'm so glad I sent my children to strict schools.  My daughter was subjected to bullying (of the psychological kind), sadly by one of her own friendship group, but this girl had a reputation for doing this, seemingly picking on each member of the group in turn, and they did actually have a file on her in the office.  I was very pleased with the way it was dealt with by the school, they couldn't have done more.

My son's school were brilliant when he got punched in the face (with hindsight, he could have been a victim of the 'happy-slapping' craze) on the _very last day of term,_ as they were leaving school for the day!  Luckily, one of the assistant heads was standing by the local shops (where I learned about the incident when picking my son up) and we told him what had happened, and from the description of the boy he knew who it was straight away, and over the holidays Johnnie had to write a full report of what had happened, so it could be dealt with as soon as they went back.

Sounds like the teacher in question at your school was more worried about the paperwork/bother it would cause HIM if he dealt with it as it should have been, that's a shocking response.

xx


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## Steff (Jul 15, 2010)

Well his mum was sick of going to his teacher all she said was we will keep them apart or we will split them up till xmas, how on earth can that happen when there in the same classroom 3 hours, and of course it did'nt happen and now this has happened,i later found out that they were 3 witnessess to this as well, and the boys reason for punching him,simply to get his attention.


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## AlisonM (Jul 15, 2010)

It's great that there are witnesses. Your friend's next step should be to ask them to write down what happened and include the reports in a letter to the school's Head Teacher with a copy sent to the Board of Governors demanding that action be taken. If that doesn't work then she should go to the LEA and then Ofsted.

School staff have a 'duty of care' and could be held accountable if a child is injured on the premises, whether by accident or design' and they did nothing to prevent it. In this instance they cannot plead ignorance as the bully has been reported before.


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## Monica (Jul 15, 2010)

It's absolutely disgusting!

My friend's son has been bullied on and off by the same boy for SEVEN YEARS!!! She complained and complained. She recently sent a letter to the Board of Govenors. The reply was that "he brought it on himself"!!!!

We had Ofsted in last week and she wrote a letter to them and included the reply from the govenors. I'm really curious as to what will happen next.


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## Steff (Jul 15, 2010)

I've just got off the phone to my mate, she said her lad came out of class crying today, i dont kow why yet as she had to rush off but i can guess it will be down to him grr.Ive suggested what you said Alison she is just scared she is a single mum and can find this sort of thing very daunting.


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## Catwoman76 (Jul 15, 2010)

Monica said:


> It's absolutely disgusting!
> 
> My friend's son has been bullied on and off by the same boy for SEVEN YEARS!!! She complained and complained. She recently sent a letter to the Board of Govenors. The reply was that "he brought it on himself"!!!!
> 
> We had Ofsted in last week and she wrote a letter to them and included the reply from the govenors. I'm really curious as to what will happen next.



So am I Monica-I know it's coming up to the school holidays, but it would be interesting to find out the outcome-it's such a shame there is such alot of bullying. Sheena


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## AlisonM (Jul 15, 2010)

Draft letter to the Board of Governors:

Dear Sirs,

I am writing to you in desperation because my son is being bullied at your school and I have been unable to impress upon his teacher (or the Head [master / mistress]) how serious this issue is. In spite of my best efforts to explain the ill affects the bullying has on my child, and in spite of the fact that there are witnesses prepared to confirm the events, no action has been taken and if left to the school's staff, none will be. This is an entirely unacceptable state of affairs and it must not be allowed to continue any longer. I am sure the school has policies in place to deal with bullying and ask that you ensure that the staff understand those policies and ensure that they will be followed correctly in future. I also ask that you examine the evidence in my son's case* and act on it as soon as possible. I cannot state strongly enough how important it is that this issue be taken seriously and the matter dealt with as expeditiously as possible and so I further request that you inform me in writing before the (end of this term/start of the new term) of the action taken to ensure that my child may continue his schooling in the reasonable expectation that he will be safe from any further such experiences.

Yours faithfully,

* It would be a good idea to assemble the witnesses reports and attach copies of them to the letter. Has your friend approached the Head about this? If not, then remove that bit in brackets and send a copy of the letter to him/her.

If you can find out who the Chairman is address it to them personally and send it by recorded delivery so you have proof it has been received.

I hope this helps, or at least gives your friend a starting point.


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## Steff (Jul 15, 2010)

Alison that is ever so kind of you hun, when she is in my place tomorrow ill show her this 


Thanks x


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## bex123 (Jul 15, 2010)

unfortunatley it seems to be a prob all over , my lad was severly bullied by a boy 2yrs above him and i pulled him from the school because the head did nothing time and time again and it all came to a head when he was strangled and kicked in the head !!, my lads not soft either he was a orange belt karate at the time and came 2nd in the under 7's southern karate final , but he was so disciplined with it he wouldnt use it on other kids not even for self defence :/ the bullying would have been solved if the child had been suspended or expeled but because he was allowed to get away with it he got worse and worse , i think your right though things were a lot strikter(sp) when we were kids , we were taught actions and conciquence


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## Monica (Jul 18, 2010)

sheena76 said:


> So am I Monica-I know it's coming up to the school holidays, but it would be interesting to find out the outcome-it's such a shame there is such alot of bullying. Sheena



I'll let you know Sheena. I guess we'll have to wait until next school year. Luckily the last one at this school.


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## Steff (Jul 18, 2010)

Well we all got a letter home on Friday saying that next term the school will be starting something new with the year 5's, all this time the classes have stayed the same and the kids have been together since reception but this time they are spiliing up 3 diffirent year groups and my sons class is one of them and the other year 5 group which consists of my freinds son and this bully, so anyway his mums comes over to me and says guess what the 2 boys are still in the same class

point of this splitting up was guess what to split the kids that did not get on with each other lol what a joke that is, so on open evening tuesday she is going to have a few strong words with head/class teacher.She cant face another term with this going on i feel so sorry for her that im going along with her for moral support.


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## Monica (Jul 18, 2010)

bex123 said:


> unfortunatley it seems to be a prob all over , my lad was severly bullied by a boy 2yrs above him and i pulled him from the school because the head did nothing time and time again and it all came to a head when he was strangled and kicked in the head !!, my lads not soft either he was a orange belt karate at the time and came 2nd in the under 7's southern karate final , but he was so disciplined with it he wouldnt use it on other kids not even for self defence :/ the bullying would have been solved if the child had been suspended or expeled but because he was allowed to get away with it he got worse and worse , i think your right though things were a lot strikter(sp) when we were kids , we were taught actions and conciquence



Same here, they won't expel the boy. The parents don't think there is a problem and refused outright to have a mediation chat. Last time the head said that if the parents don't want to get involved to sort the mess, then there's nothing she could do. I'm sure they don't need the parents' permission to expel the boy!
Don't know what to say, well done for not using his Karate, but maybe that would have sorted to bully out. But then again it might have just gotten your lad into trouble.


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## Monica (Jul 18, 2010)

Steffie said:


> Well we all got a letter home on Friday saying that next term the school will be starting something new with the year 5's, all this time the classes have stayed the same and the kids have been together since reception but this time they are spiliing up 3 diffirent year groups and my sons class is one of them and the other year 5 group which consists of my freinds son and this bully, so anyway his mums comes over to me and says guess what the 2 boys are still in the same class
> 
> point of this splitting up was guess what to split the kids that did not get on with each other lol what a joke that is, so on open evening tuesday she is going to have a few strong words with head/class teacher.



Snap, my friend's boy and the bully have been in the same class until this school year. So he had at least had 1 year off in the classroom. Unfortunately, next year they will be in the same class again.

She needs to just keep at them until they are fed up with her and do something about it.
 I really hope this gets sorted, I dread to think that someone else will be going through this for years and years without help. It makes me sad.


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## Steff (Jul 18, 2010)

Monica said:


> Snap, my friend's boy and the bully have been in the same class until this school year. So he had at least had 1 year off in the classroom. Unfortunately, next year they will be in the same class again.
> 
> She needs to just keep at them until they are fed up with her and do something about it.
> I really hope this gets sorted, I dread to think that someone else will be going through this for years and years without help. It makes me sad.



Yeah me to, makes me so sad they say your school years are supposed to be your best, unfortunetly in some cases its the total opposite, and the lad dare not do anything back or he will be the one in bother.The teacher made one suggestion to my mate and that was , oh we will keep them apart until xmas, and she said that 4 weeks ago, yeah like that was ever going to happen there a class of 30 how can they not be together in the class grr.


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## Monica (Jul 18, 2010)

Steffie said:


> Yeah me to, makes me so sad they say your school years are supposed to be your best, unfortunetly in some cases its the total opposite, and the lad dare not do anything back or he will be the one in bother.The teacher made one suggestion to my mate and that was , oh we will keep them apart until xmas, and she said that 4 weeks ago, yeah like that was ever going to happen there a class of 30 how can they not be together in the class grr.



No, that's not going to work!!! The bully will always make sure that he will sit near or next to the lad. Behind him is the best place.


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## Jimbo (Jul 18, 2010)

I think the do nothing teacher needs a little "motivation" on a personal level to be more helpful.
A lawyers letter directed at the teacher responsible may get them to "extract the digit" and do something, you know, something along the lines of, you are the responsible person deemed inloco parentis by the rules of the school board, I therefore hold you personally responsible for my childs well being. If you cannot or will not police the matter in an appropriate fashion you leave me no choice but to sue you personally for dereliction of duty and care.
A little harsh I know but I have little tolerance for people who will not do their job properly, especially when it involves the care of children. I don't care what the other parents do or don't want. The Teacher is the one who must protect the child who is being bullied, this is not a popularity contest. The little bully must be made to understand that for each action of his there is an equall and positive re-action from the school punishing him for his bad behavior.
The rant of a previously bullied person is now over, fortunately my Dad didn't take any rubbish from the headmaster, he was told straight, deal with it or I get the Police in. 
My Dad later told me if it had been one person I was against he would have expected me to deal with it (ie fight), only the fact that I was out numbered seven to one made him step in. Well it was the seventies at the time ( when men were men ....and all that)


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## LisaLQ (Jul 18, 2010)

I think it works both ways too - eg. my kids behaviour since going to secondary school has gone suddenly downhill, to the point where I dont even want to live with them any more some days.  Teachers need to take responsibility and toughen up.  All the winging and moaning about how bad the kids are, all they have to do is earn some respect.  Doesn't matter how hard you try at home, the majority of their day is spent in the care of these soft teachers, and if they have no respect for them or fear of them, then they're going to turn feral.

I cant wait for my oldest two to grow up and move out.  I love them, but I dont like them any more.  And that's horrible.


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## Steff (Jul 18, 2010)

So very true Lisa they spend 6-7 at school , and if theres no discipline or boundries set in junior school how the heck do they go on to senior it will be a head screw, im dreading my son going to senior school and it does not help when my dad says comments like they will be eating each other or they will be carrying guns by the time C gets to school.


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## Monica (Jul 18, 2010)

Jimbo said:


> I think the do nothing teacher needs a little "motivation" on a personal level to be more helpful.
> A lawyers letter directed at the teacher responsible may get them to "extract the digit" and do something, you know, something along the lines of, you are the responsible person deemed inloco parentis by the rules of the school board, I therefore hold you personally responsible for my childs well being. If you cannot or will not police the matter in an appropriate fashion you leave me no choice but to sue you personally for dereliction of duty and care.
> A little harsh I know but I have little tolerance for people who will not do their job properly, especially when it involves the care of children. I don't care what the other parents do or don't want. The Teacher is the one who must protect the child who is being bullied, this is not a popularity contest. The little bully must be made to understand that for each action of his there is an equall and positive re-action from the school punishing him for his bad behavior.
> The rant of a previously bullied person is now over, fortunately my Dad didn't take any rubbish from the headmaster, he was told straight, deal with it or I get the Police in.
> My Dad later told me if it had been one person I was against he would have expected me to deal with it (ie fight), only the fact that I was out numbered seven to one made him step in. Well it was the seventies at the time ( when men were men ....and all that)



In my friend's case the police was involved, because the bully told his parents that my friend was bullying him. And of course the parents believed him. Luckily my friend had enough witnesses to prove otherwise. And I had to give a witness statement once, as the bully's dad cornered her and threatened her to leave the boy alone. He told her if she touched his son one more time, he'd find her, put a rope round her neck and tie it to his car and he'd drive round our town like that. (What he didn't know was that the boy was riding his bike into my friend's little girl. So she put her hand out to stop him). Our children witnessed all that and they were too terrified to go to school next day.

My friend can't wait until they go to senior school, because they will both go to a different school.


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## Monica (Jul 18, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> I cant wait for my oldest two to grow up and move out.  I love them, but I dont like them any more.  And that's horrible.



So sad to hear that you don't like your children anymore. Unfortunately, it seems to be happening here too. My husband and C are always at loggerheads.


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## shirl (Jul 18, 2010)

One of the biggest problems is that teachers and schools have to be careful otherwise *they* may be prosecuted for assault!! Schools are very limited as to what they can do apart from excluding a child and sadly that takes time!. An awful lot of children are very "wised up" as to their "rights" these days too. 
Maybe we need to look at how we behave too coz most behaviour is learnt and copied from our elders!


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## LisaLQ (Jul 18, 2010)

Monica said:


> So sad to hear that you don't like your children anymore. Unfortunately, it seems to be happening here too. My husband and C are always at loggerheads.



I've had a really bad day with my eldest and her mouth, she's 14 and her dad thinks the sun shines out of her bum.  When I tell her off, he pulls me up, and now she knows she can get away with treating everyone like dirt, because dad will always stick up for her.

TBH the day I've had today, the only thing stopping me walking out and never coming back is the other 4.  Hubby and eldest can run and jump.


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## Steff (Jul 18, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> I've had a really bad day with my eldest and her mouth, she's 14 and her dad thinks the sun shines out of her bum.  When I tell her off, he pulls me up, and now she knows she can get away with treating everyone like dirt, because dad will always stick up for her.
> 
> TBH the day I've had today, the only thing stopping me walking out and never coming back is the other 4.  Hubby and eldest can run and jump.



Dont want to go off topic to mch but i can totally agree with how you feel Lisa im the disiplinarian most of the time , i tell lad off for something then OH goes and sees if he is ok comes back down and has a go at me for telling C off.


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## Steff (Jul 18, 2010)

shirl said:


> Maybe we need to look at how we behave too coz most behaviour is learnt and copied from our elders!




I'd like to think i have never tought C how to bully and id also like to think im sending him to a decent enough school where they should be in control of bullying not let it get *out * of control.


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## shirl (Jul 18, 2010)

Sorry Steff didn't mean to infer that any one would deliberately teach their child to bully! (specially you).
But some kids are not in the most stable environment where they see and are exposed to all sorts of behaviour, and I am in no way condoning bullying or making excuses for kids who do! 
My own son was bullied for most of his senior school years which culminated in him having his jaw broken in two places, which was an horrific, having a long op to put 4 plates in! Never want to see, let alone experience, that ever again!!


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## Steff (Jul 18, 2010)

Sorry Shirl if that sounded rude of me hun, i know what you mean and in no way was questioning what you typed, how horrible for your poor son xx hugs.


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## shirl (Jul 19, 2010)

Hi Steff, thanx for that, I was worried that I'd upset you which wasn't my intention at all! 
Have been thinking about this most of the nite, and I guess some years ago these children would have been sent to a "special" school not to mainstream! The government and the do-gooders have seen fit to close a lot of special schools (especially in our area) without thinking of the consequences for other children's education. Teachers and TAs are expected to take the strain with no extra training other than being told "if you need to restrain a child 'reasonable' force is to be used", well what's that? Not only that but it does have a huge effect on the other children in the same class who do behave and want to learn, but thats another thread !!  

Hugs Steff, take care, lv Shirl x


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## shirl (Jul 19, 2010)

My son is thankfully fine now, but was like having a baby again had to puree evrything he had to eat coz he couldn't chew for 12 weeks after!! BTW he was sixteen at the time and just started his GCSE's. X


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## shirl (Jul 19, 2010)

Hi Steff, thanx for that, I was worried that I'd upset you which wasn't my intention at all! 
Have been thinking about this most of the nite, and I guess some years ago these children would have been sent to a "special" school not to mainstream! The government and the do-gooders have seen fit to close a lot of special schools (especially in our area) without thinking of the consequences for other children's education. Teachers and TAs are expected to take the strain with no extra training other than being told "if you need to restrain a child 'reasonable' force is to be used", well what's that? Not only that but it does have a huge effect on the other children in the same class who do behave and want to learn, but thats another thread !!  

Hugs Steff, take care, lv Shirl x


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## Monica (Jul 19, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> I've had a really bad day with my eldest and her mouth, she's 14 and her dad thinks the sun shines out of her bum.  When I tell her off, he pulls me up, and now she knows she can get away with treating everyone like dirt, because dad will always stick up for her.
> 
> TBH the day I've had today, the only thing stopping me walking out and never coming back is the other 4.  Hubby and eldest can run and jump.



Wow, I actually did leave once, but only for about 3 hours. In our house it seems to be the other way round though, C is 13 and doesn't appreciate what we do for her. But I'm the softy and hubby is the tough one. Except he can't even see it anymore when she isn't stroppy.

I wish I could give you some proper advice as to what to do.
 Go on strike! I'm not entering C's bedroom until it's tidy. So that means I'm not changing her bedsheets!!!! Use your imagination what it's like in there!!


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## Monica (Jul 21, 2010)

Monica said:


> Snap, my friend's boy and the bully have been in the same class until this school year. So he had at least had 1 year off in the classroom. Unfortunately, next year they will be in the same class again.



I just found out that I was wrong. They are not in the same class this year.

I was chatting to dad and he thinks that Ofsted are not going to contact them!


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## LisaLQ (Jul 22, 2010)

I'm so sorry for being such a nasty cow on this thread, I love all of my family very much, just the teen years have been really very hard.  Having said that, they aren't out partying and drinking or going out with lads (yet), so I think I should be grateful.  Because at her age, I was!


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## Steff (Jul 22, 2010)

Well wonders will never seize my mate and i ave just got off the phone gassing, and the lad has now been moved classes at the last minute


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## Monica (Jul 23, 2010)

Steffie said:


> Well wonders will never seize my mate and i ave just got off the phone gassing, and the lad has now been moved classes at the last minute



Brilliant


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## Monica (Jul 23, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> I'm so sorry for being such a nasty cow on this thread, I love all of my family very much, just the teen years have been really very hard.  Having said that, they aren't out partying and drinking or going out with lads (yet), so I think I should be grateful.  Because at her age, I was!



Don't be sorry, we all have bad days, weeks, months, years. As I said before C is 13 and I'm dreading her going out partying and drinking, especially when you see how badly they behave, when drunk. And how will anyone know whether she's drunk or hypo????? So I'm holding my fingers crossed very tightly, that she will not binge drink ever.


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