# Hello all (a bit worried and confused)



## Cathy Frankland (Apr 3, 2018)

Hi all,

I am so glad that I have found this website, there is so much information out there and I am feeling rather confused about everything.

A bit of background about me.... About three years ago I was diagnosed with pre-diabetes, but not given any advice or follow-up by the doctor. Life got in the way - raising our 12 year old twin boys, going back to work full-time, my mum being diagnosed & going through treatment for breast cancer and then my dad having a severe stroke which caused a slow decline, dementia and his death a year ago.

November 2017 I started having cold systems with really bad cough; after three weeks I went to the doctor, who told me to just put up with it. Another three weeks later and he told me the same thing. End of Feb I saw another doctor, who sent me for loads of blood tests (suspecting that I had whooping cough), I was told that me liver results were abnormal, my kidney results were abnormal, I had VERY VERY low level of vitamin D and I was most definitely diabetic (82 and she told me I should be below 42); she prescribed daily high level vitamin D and told me to see one of the diabetic nursing team.

I then made an appointment with one of the nursing team, who told me that I must give up ALL carbs, ALL fruit juice and that I shouldn't be eating pulses, beans, chickpeas, bananas, grapes, apples or oranges, but should be eating meat, fish, chicken, cheese, high fat butter/yoghurt/cream, leafy vegetables and salads - this all felt very overwhelming and scary.

Thank goodness I found this website and after reading up loads, doing the online course and watching the various video clips I felt more informed. I saw a different nurse last Monday - I am now keeping a food diary and monitoring my blood sugar levels; I also have a diabetic eye appointment in next week and am being much more proactive about my diet and exercise.

I am rather worried about my blood sugar levels - they are always high in the morning (usually around 13.7 - 14.7), they can settle down during the day (9.2 - 12.9 pre-meal) but then I am having some really big spikes - last night was my highest at 16.6 (after a Gousto home-cooked meal of halloumi & salad wraps, with a small pot of fruit & nut mix to munch whilst watching TV).

So I guess my questions are: 

the fact that I have consistently high blood sugar readings first thing in the morning could this be linked to the dawn phenomenon or the Somogyi effect? I am guessing maybe the latter, as very regularly I wake up in the middle of the night drenched in sweat, often with a pounding headache and sometimes even heart palpitations; also when I wake up in the morning I often have a headache and still feel tired and lethargic. If yes, what can I do to help stop this?
What can I do to actually start bringing my blood sugar levels down (nearly a month on a diet & increased activity doesn't seem to be changing anything) - I am particularly concerned about these high spikes. Should I be cutting out all carbs - this seems pretty extreme? I was told to see the doctor again in June, but should I go earlier and ask about medication?
Anyway, I really just wanted to say hello and thank you for such a great website, but if anyone has any ideas about the above queries, that would be great.

Thanks LOADS and I look forward to chatting to everyone!


Cathy


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## Davein (Apr 3, 2018)

Hi Cathy and welcome.
I'm T2 also and now on insulin therapy. You don't mention any diabetes medication and as your bg levels are rather high I'm surprised your not on any. Could you confirm that no meds have been prescribed. Dave


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## Cathy Frankland (Apr 3, 2018)

Hi Dave,
No, I haven't been prescribed any medication for my diabetes at all.
At the moment the medication I take is as follows:

Fluoxetine (Prozac) 40mg per day (had severe PND when our twin boys were born & my depression was bad enough last November for the doctor to change the dosage from 20mg per day to 40mg)
Vitamin D tablet (it is one tablet per day, but can't remember the dosage; the doctor said it was high to combat my very low levels discovered in the recent blood test).
I have also just spoken to the surgery this morning, as I had another blood test with the nurse last week - my diabetes blood results have gone from 82 to 84 and apparently I have very high cholesterol at 8.6. The doctor wants to put me on statins, but I can't get an appointment to see him until 17th April.
Thanks loads for any advice.
Cathy


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## Davein (Apr 3, 2018)

I am very surprised no meds prescribed. I was put on metformin and later gliclazide which managed to bring down my bg levels to within the recognised levels. Unfortunately I also have autoimmune pancreatitis and a recent episode triggered my levels going into the 20/30 range so I was immediately put on insulin which has meant my levels are generally within the ranges. The symptoms you described, sweating and headaches are exactly ones I experienced recently when my bgs went down to in the 3s which meant hypo.Given the bg levels you have stated I would have thought you would have been prescribed meds.
I'm sure other members will come on and give further advice especially @mikeyB who was a GP.


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## Mark T (Apr 3, 2018)

I'm surprised your GP hasn't put you on anything also - if only to stabilise you and bring your levels down.  You might want to ask about referral to a Hospital clinic.

The symptoms at night could be a number of things, they are also indicative of anxiety.  Or it could be hormonal changes.  Or it could be the low Vitamin D (which does lots of funky things).  Obviously I'm guessing and that's something to discuss with your GP.

What sort of things are you eating?  Any carbohydrates will send your blood glucose levels up - but you need to eat some.


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## Cathy Frankland (Apr 3, 2018)

Thanks Dave and Mark, very interesting comments.
Diet-wise I am now having plain yoghurt or fromage frais (the lowest sugar & fat one I can find - Skyr, Tesco Healthy Living or Sainsburys Low Fat) with chopped nuts/seeds for breakfast, then a chicken & salad or ham, cheese & cucumber sandwich (multigrain bread) with some cherry toms & a pack of Snack-a-Jacks for lunch and then dinner tonight is ham & cheese omelette, with cheese coleslaw & homemade tomato/olive/cucumber salad. If I snack I will have a small pot of fruit & nut mix mid-afternoon and then my favourite snack in the evening is a pot of raspberries or strawberries.
I don't drink alcohol, can't stand tea or coffee, don't smoke and drinks loads of water.
As I have been unwell since November (a lot better now, but only in the last few weeks) I didn't feel like cooking, so we would have more convenience stuff & pasta, also jacket potatoes and my big weekness - Red Bull and choccie! Over the past month I have gone from one can of Red Bull and 1-2 choccie bars per day to 0 cans of Red Bull and 1 tiny amount of choccie (Reeses cups or marzipan bites) at most twice a week. 
Exercise has also been a problem - I work in an office and seem to spend my life as a taxi service for my boys. That has now changed - over the past month I have started walking to/from work whenever possible (15 mins x 2, at least 3 times per week) and I now walk upstairs to the 4th floor toilets at work and have stopped using the lift to get to meetings! After the Easter hols the boys and I will be going swimming after school at least once (hopefully twice) per week and we now go for much longer walks as a family at the weekend - in fact I have just signed up for 'Race at your Pace' to walk 50 miles in April (might not seem much for some, but is a big deal for me!).
I would like to control both my diabetes and my cholesterol by diet and exercise if possible, but if I have to take medication, then so be it. It all feels rather scary and daunting...sigh....
Thanks loads,
Cathy xx


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## stephknits (Apr 3, 2018)

Hi Cathy and welcome to the forum.  It might be a good idea to start with a food diary, recording what you eat and drink and the carbohydrates in grams.  You can then begin to see a picture and identify any areas you may want to change / adapt.  Tortilla wraps are annoyingly carby - I think one is around 33grams carbs compared to a slice of Burgen bread at 11grams.  Sounds like you are being positive and proactive so you will hopefully see results of your efforts soon


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## Wirrallass (Apr 3, 2018)

Hi Cathy and a warm welcome to this supportive forum from another Type2.
I'm sorry to hear of your mum's diagnosis and for the loss of your father both of which I appreciate would have impacted your blood glucose levels

I don't believe you should give up ALL carbs as advised by your Nursie as we do need some carbs to function.

I advocate the book CARB & CALORIE COUNTER £10.19 from Amazon
www.amazon.co
It's an amazing book which I call my bible ~ and has over 1700 coloured photo's of a wide range of popular food & drink items. Its the perfect tool for *Carbohydrate counting *in Diabetes  ~ *Weight management* ~ *Portion *control and general healthy eating. Its deffinitly worthy of purchasing if you don't already have a copy.

I would also suggest that you view the link below where you will find more links within this link which you will find both helpful and beneficial:~

https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/useful-links-for-people-new-to-diabetes.10406/
and then scroll down to the Type2 section.

Hoping you find the above information helpful. Take care Cathy and do please stay in touch. If you have any other queries then please ask. Good luck.
WL

Dx Type2 April 2016
Diet control and exercise only


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## Wirrallass (Apr 3, 2018)

You could also take a looksie into the following threads to give you ideas as to what we eat to maintain low carb consumption:~

https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/forums/food-carb-queries-recipes.4/
And
https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/what-did-you-eat-yesterday.30349/page-250#post-809115


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## Wirrallass (Apr 3, 2018)

If you find getting out to be a problem for you then maybe you could exercise in your home using the following DVD's. They were recommended to me by another forum member. I havent used the Belly Blasting one yet but have used the Walk Away the Pounds. You can go at your own speed if you want if the pace is too fast for you initially. They can both be purchased from:~ www.amazon.co

Click or tap to expand.

Good for you for signing up for the Race at your Pace ~ if this isn't self motivation then I don't know what is. I wish you the best of luck and don't forget to update us after the event x
WL


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## Davein (Apr 3, 2018)

Cathy Frankland said:


> Thanks Dave and Mark, very interesting comments.
> Diet-wise I am now having plain yoghurt or fromage frais (the lowest sugar & fat one I can find - Skyr, Tesco Healthy Living or Sainsburys Low Fat) with chopped nuts/seeds for breakfast, then a chicken & salad or ham, cheese & cucumber sandwich (multigrain bread) with some cherry toms & a pack of Snack-a-Jacks for lunch and then dinner tonight is ham & cheese omelette, with cheese coleslaw & homemade tomato/olive/cucumber salad. If I snack I will have a small pot of fruit & nut mix mid-afternoon and then my favourite snack in the evening is a pot of raspberries or strawberries.
> I don't drink alcohol, can't stand tea or coffee, don't smoke and drinks loads of water.
> As I have been unwell since November (a lot better now, but only in the last few weeks) I didn't feel like cooking, so we would have more convenience stuff & pasta, also jacket potatoes and my big weekness - Red Bull and choccie! Over the past month I have gone from one can of Red Bull and 1-2 choccie bars per day to 0 cans of Red Bull and 1 tiny amount of choccie (Reeses cups or marzipan bites) at most twice a week.
> ...


In my opinion you really need meds to bring down your bg levels sooner rather than later, indeed if you succeed in bringing your levels down and have tweaked your diet sufficiently there is no reason why it may be possible to reduce med does or even stop them later on. With constantly high bg levels there is the possibility of diabetes complications later in life, so no shame in going on the meds. You seem to be motivating yourself to do all the positive things. Fifty miles IS a big thing (I remember walking 30 miles in a day for charity when I was in my teens and that took me nearly a week to recover) so good on you. Yes it is rather scary and daunting initially but I assure you once you get into a routine it will become second nature. You have probably been through many scary and daunting things in your life previously, as indeed most of us have, just consider this as being yet another challenge life throws your way. You will succeed in controlling this. I would recommend a book called Calorie and Carb Counting which many on here use, it gives you Carb values on various portion sizes of hundreds of common foods and try and keep a daily record of your bg levels.


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## Wirrallass (Apr 3, 2018)

Davein said:


> In my opinion you really need meds to bring down your bg levels sooner rather than later, indeed if you succeed in bringing your levels down and have tweaked your diet sufficiently there is no reason why it may be possible to reduce med does or even stop them later on. With constantly high bg levels there is the possibility of diabetes complications later in life, so no shame in going on the meds. You seem to be motivating yourself to do all the positive things. Fifty miles IS a big thing (I remember walking 30 miles in a day for charity when I was in my teens and that took me nearly a week to recover) so good on you. Yes it is rather scary and daunting initially but I assure you once you get into a routine it will become second nature. You have probably been through many scary and daunting things in your life previously, as indeed most of us have, just consider this as being yet another challenge life throws your way. You will succeed in controlling this. I would recommend a book called Calorie and Carb Counting which many on here use, it gives you Carb values on various portion sizes of hundreds of common foods and try and keep a daily record of your bg levels.


Sorry Davein, beat you to it but good thinking
(See Carb & CALORIE COUNTER above)


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## Davein (Apr 3, 2018)

wirralass said:


> I've already recommended this to Cathy but good thinking Davein
> (See above)


Hi WL yes I took a long time composing my reply and in the meantime you had replied


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## Wirrallass (Apr 3, 2018)

Davein said:


> Hi WL yes I took a long time composing my reply and in the meantime you had replied


I think we've all taken a long time composing today  Not that we've minded. Now for a coffee


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## Davein (Apr 3, 2018)

wirralass said:


> I think we've all taken a long time composing today  Not that we've minded. Now for a coffee


It's good therapy. at least you feel like you may have possibly helped to make someone's day just that bit more bearable


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## Wirrallass (Apr 3, 2018)

Davein said:


> It's good therapy. at least you feel like you may have possibly helped to make someone's day just that bit more bearable


I quite agree Davein
 
Tap to expand

WL


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## Davein (Apr 3, 2018)

wirralass said:


> I quite agree Davein
> View attachment 7749
> Tap to expand
> 
> WL


I just hope I do not make many typos but the pedants here have Vince to keep them busy in that respect


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## Martin Canty (Apr 3, 2018)

Cathy Frankland said:


> I then made an appointment with one of the nursing team, who told me that I must give up ALL carbs, ALL fruit juice and that I shouldn't be eating pulses, beans, chickpeas, bananas, grapes, apples or oranges, but should be eating meat, fish, chicken, cheese, high fat butter/yoghurt/cream, leafy vegetables and salads - this all felt very overwhelming and scary.



Hi Cathy
We all have differing opinions on how manage our D, I'm actually in agreement with this nurse....

My strategy is to cut or reduce all significant carb sources such as bread, rice, pasta, cereals & starchy vegetables such as potatoes, instead replacing them with green leafy vegetables. Personally I have had a lot of success with this way of eating, managing both my BG & Cholesterol levels.

Don't fear the meds, they are there to help, particularly with high BG readings. Also obtaining a BG meter will help in the day to day management of your BG (then you can see what foods are affecting you & eliminate them from your diet). Congratulations on making the commitment to more exercise....


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## Drummer (Apr 3, 2018)

Some of the things you are eating are really high carb and that is where the high readings are coming from - sandwiches, fruit - I don't know what snack a jacks are but I would put money on them being something to avoid.
If you do eat berries then it is best to add double cream so as to slow down the absorption - but check your BG level to see if you are low enough to cope with more sugars.
The first nurse you saw was right on the button - which is really rare to find usually nurses give some very bad advice about complex carbs which is totally nonsense anyway. Carbs of any colour are still carbs and will elevate your BG - sometimes the brown ones keep BG higher even longer than the white ones.


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## Maz2 (Apr 3, 2018)

Welcome to the Forum Cathy.  It is a shame you were not given follow up following the pre-diabetes diagnosis.  I was sent on a prevention programme and given four hba1cs and mine went back to normal levels. It did not happen for everyone on the programme.   Unfortunately, mine have gone back up again now and not sure why so back to testing everything again.  I have to be checked again in a year. 

It certainly seems very hit and miss with the way people are treated depending on where you live which is awful considering how many people suffer from this now.  My neighbour is diabetic, 7 of my friends and acquaintances are, another one is possibly diabetic, one and an ex work colleague are pre-diabetic.

I thought pulses were OK in moderation - other members of the Forum correct me if I am wrong.


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## Maz2 (Apr 3, 2018)

I must say I am surprised that you have not been given any medication too.  

 I wonder if you would find the following books useful for ideas on what to eat - "The 8 Week Blood Sugar Diet" by Michael Moseley; "Blood Sugar Diet Recipes" by Michael Moseley.  I have both and find them useful.  "Reverse your Diabetes" by Dr David Cavan.  He used to be a diabetes consultant but now works in the EU on diabetes research I believe.  That is also a useful book. I also like Tom Kerridge's Dopamine Diet book although some people do find the recipes it a bit fiddly.  I like it though but I like cooking and I have the time, unlike a lot of people juggling full time work and families.  Davina McCall's low sugar diet book is good too but I just miss out the pasta, rice and potatoes.


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## CathyB (Apr 3, 2018)

Welcome from one Cathy to another  like the others, I am also concerned that you haven’t been offered any medication to help you.  I would suggest to ask your doctor what the thinking behind that might be so you can understand.  Like you I was struggling with my numbers and couldn’t work out who best to listen to, even my meeting with the diabetic nurse today was ‘an interesting experience’.  What I can say is that having sat and read through the various threads on this forum, hearing the experiences of those who are living with diabetes and have learned from their own mistakes, I was able to change my diet in a way that I didn’t feel like I was missing out and the best of it has been that I am now in single figures and feel more in control of my life


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## Wirrallass (Apr 3, 2018)

CathyB said:


> Welcome from one Cathy to another  like the others, I am also concerned that you haven’t been offered any medication to help you.  I would suggest to ask your doctor what the thinking behind that might be so you can understand.  Like you I was struggling with my numbers and couldn’t work out who best to listen to, even my meeting with the diabetic nurse today was ‘an interesting experience’.  What I can say is that having sat and read through the various threads on this forum, hearing the experiences of those who are living with diabetes and have learned from their own mistakes, I was able to change my diet in a way that I didn’t feel like I was missing out and the best of it has been that I am now in single figures and feel more in control of my life


There's more than enough experienced and knowledgeable people here to help and guide new folks on their diabetes journeys. We all began on the bottom rung and I for one wouldn't have got as far as I have without the wisdom of forum members. Its a great forum to learn about different types of diabetes and all that it brings plus diets and exercise. Glad you found us @Cathy Frankland and @CathyB.


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## Drummer (Apr 3, 2018)

Some people can eat a small serving of peas or beans - but I find they are best avoided as they seem to punch above their weight and put up my BG readings more than the carb count would if from other foods.


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## Cathy Frankland (Apr 4, 2018)

Wow - I just wanted to say a HUGE thank you to everyone who has responded to my post, it's really quite overwhelming how helpful/friendly people are!!

Last night I had a huge omlette with ham and cheese, some coleslaw and a tomato/red pepper/olive salad combo. I then did a 20 min yoga stretching video workout and snacked on raspberries as an evening snack - when testing my blood sugar before bed I was astounded that it was only 8.5 (amazingly low) for me and last night I didn't have any night sweats or headache.

I think my plan for earlier dinner time and then gentle exercise after eating might be a winner!!!

I have also ordered a job lot of the various books recommended and am going to get going on the BSD low-carb Mediterranean diet, as I reckon that will work best for both myself and my family (there's no way I'm cooking different meals for everyone, so they will be eating what I eat!!).

Right.... I have had my lunch (BTW Snack a Jacks are a rice/corn snack that are low fat, low sugar and not too bad for carbs - better than my usual crisps!) and rather than carrying on working, as usual, I am going to walk to the library in my actual lunch break!!

Thank you SO much again, I am sure I will be asking loads more questions, but you've given me loads of useful advice to get started with.

Cathy  xx


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## Mark T (Apr 4, 2018)

Cathy Frankland said:


> ...Right.... I have had my lunch (BTW Snack a Jacks are a rice/corn snack that are low fat, low sugar and not too bad for carbs - better than my usual crisps!) and rather than carrying on working, as usual, I am going to walk to the library in my actual lunch break!!...


Good on you, however...

Snack a jacks are about 88% carbohydrate per weight and a quick google tells me that a 30g individual packet contains about 26g carb.  Now, that's heavily processed so those carbs are going to convert to glucose and hit you like a steam train!

If I've having crisps (which is rare these days) I'm going for some children's crisps.  A pack of wotsits has 12.6 g per pack (22.5g pack) and I believe Skips are even lower.


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## Cathy Frankland (Apr 4, 2018)

Hi Mark,

Yes, I know they're not brilliant, but my husband bought them for me, thinking that they were low fat and low sugar and I didn't like to hurt his feelings as he is being really supportive! I've got 5 packs left and that will be it - thanks to the various suggestions on this website and looking at the recipe books I've ordered, my lunch will be more crunchy salad-based in future.

I don't mind crisps, but I'm not too fussed (thankfully!!); my biggest thing is to give up chocolate, fruit juice, Red Bull and fruit like melon, bananas, dates and figs :-( I've totally stopped Red Bull now and am down to 1 small chocolatey treat twice a week; I've also given up all the high-sugar fruit (sob) and only have about 1 inch of orange juice to take my tablets (Prozac x 2 and 1 vitamin D), but I have switched to having it directly after my evening meal, rather than as a separate drink.

It would be nice to find a low-sugar fruit juice, but I'm not sure any actually exist!! I don't like many fizzy drinks, so giving them up is no problem at all, but it does get rather boring just drinking water!!

Cathy xx


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## Mark T (Apr 4, 2018)

Ribena Lite is fairly low carb if you don't mind blackcurrants.  If you are ok with hot drinks there are always fruits teas (or you could let it cool down).  Also, the zero sugar jellies are very nice.

In the kid's isle, the Robinsons Fruit-shoots have a few options.  Edit: linky: https://fruitshoot.com/gb/our-products/hydro/

For chocolate, like many others, I've swapped over to dark chocolate and there are many nice varieties that are both mostly lowish carb and taste nice.  Maybe find some green & blacks mini bars - but mind your portion control!


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## Cathy Frankland (Apr 4, 2018)

Wow - thanks Mark, I don't mind blackcurrants, so will definitely check that out. I don't mind jellys, but prefer a small pot of rasberries or strawberries for my evening snack, however I will pick a few up at the supermarket and see what they taste like!

Thanks also for the Green & Blacks mini bar suggestion - I will definitely switch to them and hope, in time, to wean myself of choccie totally!!

Cathy


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## Maz2 (Apr 4, 2018)

Drummer said:


> Some people can eat a small serving of peas or beans - but I find they are best avoided as they seem to punch above their weight and put up my BG readings more than the carb count would if from other foods.


HI Drummer - do you mean green beans or baked beans/pulse type beans.  I always thought they were OK but I suppose it depends on the person.


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## Mark Parrott (Apr 4, 2018)

Maz2 said:


> HI Drummer - do you mean green beans or baked beans/pulse type beans.  I always thought they were OK but I suppose it depends on the person.


Green beans are low carb (3.6g per 100g).  Baked beans are quite high, even the low sugar versions but also have a lot of fibre (like most beans) so may be tolerable in small doses.


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## Maz2 (Apr 5, 2018)

Thanks.  I thought that was probably the case.


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## Jeandp (Apr 7, 2018)

HI @Cathy Frankland and welcome. I notice you mention "low fat" eating. Many members on here, myself included, have had success with a low carb,high fat way of eating. If you cut right back on carbs, and fat, you will be starving! Have a good look on the food and carbs section for tips and recipes. Try to include more fat in your diet, it has definitely worked for me. Good luck!


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## Mark Parrott (Apr 7, 2018)

Adding to what @Jeandp says, don't worry about the fat.  You will still lose weight without the carbs & it will not send your cholesterol high either.


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## Maz2 (Apr 7, 2018)

Would like to reiterate what Jean and Mark have said. The recipe section is very good.  I have made Mark's flaxseed loaf and it is delicious. It does not raise the blood sugars much at all for me.


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