# The sad irony of a beekeeper with Diabetes!



## rebrascora (Mar 17, 2019)

Hi
Thanks for allowing me to join this great resource.
I'm Barbara and I was diagnosed with Diabetes on my 55th birthday..... My 3 month reading was 112 and I was started on Metformin and advised to follow a low sugar, low carb, low fat, low salt, no processed meats and no alcohol diet. I've lost 1.5 stone in the past 5 weeks and my BMI is now well into the normal range. Feeling so much better for losing the weight but have almost constant muscle fatigue. I'm normally quite active as I have horses and chickens (and bees) so the lack of energy is proving challenging and I have an incredibly sweet tooth so not being able to eat sweets/chocolate (I am a recovering chocoholic)and sugar and honey and having to keep the carbs and fat down as well is a real shock to my system. I am probably eating too much fruit still but I have cut out all sweets, cakes, biscuits, crisps and everything else naughty..... basically, I have been a saint for 5 weeks, but I am not feeling better as regards symptoms and BG readings are typically between 15 and 25, so they have started me on Glyclazide (sp?).
Anyway, I'm starting to think that the diet I am following is not helping me and not sustainable so I am here to get a better idea of how to move forward with this...... I'll get into that more by asking questions in the general forums, but just wanted to introduce myself here and lay some foundations.
Cheers
Barbara


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## Jojo catwoman (Mar 17, 2019)

Hi Barbara
I was diagnosed last year at the same age as you. I am on Gliclazide and have adjusted my diet. I am no expert by any means, but I have found help on this forum, from the internet and from some medical staff.  I understand how you feel as I was totally shocked following diagnosis, having had no real symptoms.  Since then, things have been a bit complicated for me, especially following a car accident last October.
I would say you are on the right lines, with the changes you have made. But please do be kind to yourself as well.  Have you got a testing machine?  I was given one on diagnosis and I find that you have to keep testing to find out the effects of the food you are eating, has on your blood sugars.
All carbs need to be limited, such as bread, potatoes, rice and pasta. Fruit also can only be enjoyed in moderation.


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## Jojo catwoman (Mar 17, 2019)

Sorry Barbara, I meant to type more, but it posted before I could finish. My energy levels are not what they were, but it is important to keep active, so I keep trying. I think it's too hard to be a complete saint, so I allow myself the occasional treat.  I was discussing my treatment and diet with a lovely specialist nurse the other day. She said I am pretty much on track, but my G.P's surgery is failing me in some respects. She also said I can drink alcohol in moderation.
I do hope that some of this helps and make sense to you. All will be well and you will get some good advice here. Demand more from your G.P, which is what I am going to do. Sadly, many G.P's seem to know very little about diabetes.
Best wishes to you.  X


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## Ljc (Mar 17, 2019)

Hello @rebrascora Welcome to the forum .  The diet they recommended doesn’t sound sustainable long term to me.
We usually have no problems with protiens or good fats
As you are on Gliclazide they should have provided you with a glucose meter , testing strips which I see they have done.

I am wondering if the muscle fatigue is due to high BG (blood glucose levels)
Have you been put on statins ?

Ask all the questions you need to about diabetes, we’ll do our best to help.

We have lots of helpful info on a thread called, Useful links for people new to diabetes, at the top of the newbies forum, just scroll down to the T2 section .

I suggest you start with this rather long letter
maggie-daveys-letter-to-newly-diagnosed-type-2s.

This blog describes how we use our meters to find out how the various carbohydrates affect us, so we can make informed choices 
test-review-adjust by Alan S

What fruit are you eating. Grapes are little sugar bombs

If you like dark chocolate or can develop a taste for it esp 85 %or more ,you can have a couple of squares

If you would like to see what we’ve been eating , have a read through of this very long running thread,  we bare our sins there too
what-did-you-eat-yesterday


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## Drummer (Mar 17, 2019)

You need a source of energy - if it isn't carbs then fats are the better option anyway.
I keep being told that fats are bad, that there is proof of it - but whilst I could understand that the fat from an animal fed on a diet wrong for its requirements might be bad, we have evolved eating animal fats so we can grow our brains to the size they are now. 
I have eaten a low carb high fat diet whenever I could get away with it since my early 20s, interspersed with 'diets' laid down by my GPs. I know which made me feel better, which is why I burnt all the diet literature I had accumulated - in the garden the day after diagnosis, so as to start a barbeque. 
On a low carb diet we do need to ensure enough salt as it tends to deplete electrolytes these days, due to food from depleted soils being sold to us. I take a couple of multi vitamin and mineral tablets a week to prevent cramps and to ensure at least some intake of essential micronutrients.
I was on Metformin and a statin for a few weeks - I have only felt that ill on a few occasions, never for so long. Thankfully I have recovered, but the most galling thing was to realise I never needed the tablets in the first place.


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## Pumper_Sue (Mar 18, 2019)

If after what sounds like a starvation diet you still have high numbers like that, you need to ask for type1 testing. Medics tend to stereo type anyone who is a little overweight or over the age of 25 as type2 instead of making all the checks.


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## travellor (Mar 18, 2019)

Eating the low calorie diet you have been wouldn't normally be giving those high BG readings in a type 2.
Losing 1.5 stone in five weeks and most people would be seeing normal BG ranges.
(The Newcastle diet was 800 calories a day, and was recently trialed to show you could reverse diabetes, by weight loss)
You seem to have been low everything, carb, fat, protein,  for the past 5 weeks, so simply putting more fat into your diet is very unlikely to bring your BG down I'm afraid.

I think @Pumper-Sue may have the right direction.
You may have been mis-diagnosed, and you need to be asking for type 1 testing.


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## rebrascora (Mar 18, 2019)

Many thanks for all the welcoming and helpful replies.

I was not aware that there was different testing for Type 1. My GP practice is really good and they gave me a testing meter at my first appointment but apart from suggesting I use it twice a day, 2 or 3 times a week, 2 hours after food and look to keep the reading below 20 and how to use it, there wasn't really much guidance about correlating the readings with what I eat. They have started talking about me possibly needing insulin. I'm not sure if that suggests I may be Type 1?? I have just started reading my BG on a morning before food now, assuming it will be at it's lowest then and it was 13.6 this morning and 11.9 the morning before, so that is definitely better than my daytime readings.
I do feel that the diet I have been following has been pretty drastic and unsustainable long term and whilst I know I am eating too much fruit, I don't feel like I can give up on it without having something else like fats to compensate or just make it palatable. I will confess that I was* seriously* overdosing on sugar prior to the diagnosis and was certainly addicted, so going completely cold turkey with limited fruit as well was beyond my abilities. I am scaling back on the fruit now that I am over the worst of the cravings and I have requested an appointment with a dietician and to go on a half day course about Diabetes through my health centre, so those should be coming up in due course. I also have an appointment a week Thurs with the Diabetic Nurse who is visiting the practice and my practice nurse is going to refer me to the consultant.
It is just all a big learning curve at the moment and a little overwhelming some days. I am a retired Police Officer and having worked shifts for many years, I really struggle with any sort of routine, so eating regular meals or even having a regular sleep pattern is quite difficult for me and I know this is not helping my diabetic condition.

@Jojo catwoman
So very sorry that you were involved in a car accident after your diagnosis. That must have been difficult. I hope you are over the effects of the accident now.
I'm hoping the specialist nurse that I see a week Thurs will have more insight for me, but I also need to spend some time on this great forum improving my knowledge so that when I do see her, I will have an idea of the right questions to ask. I am also going to start keeping a food diary so that I can go through it with the dietician and see what tweaks she suggests to improve things.
I really appreciate your contribution. It helps knowing that others are in a similar situation and coping with this.

@Ljc
Yes I believe the muscle fatigue may well be due to my high BG but also no doubt the fast weight loss will be contributing. However for many months (maybe over a year) simple things like holding my phone to my ear for more than a minute or two would induce muscle fatigue in my arm and I would want to sit down if I was standing because I felt unwell but I kind of put that down to menopause and getting older. It was only when I came home from a meal out and had a raging thirst that I couldn't quench and caused me to drink and wee all night and the following days and nights (4 to 6 pit stops a night) until 2 weeks later I got to the stage that I was a walking zombie and knew I had to seek medical help and was pretty sure it was Diabetes from the bit of research I had done.
No, I am not taking statins. My cholesterol is pretty reasonable I believe. I can't remember the number but the nurse was not concerned. My BP has been running a bit high for several years but not medication high and I am hoping that it may have come down since my weight loss and diet change. Do statins have an effect on BG levels?

I will check out the references that you have linked.... many thanks for those.

Unfortunately I have been indulging in grapes and even worse a few sultanas in my porridge on a morning and the odd prune or two when I was desperate for a sweet hit as well as blueberries and cherries and fruits of the forest and strawberries and apples and pears and the odd banana. I've cut right back on bread and only wholemeal (low GI), no potatoes other than sweet potatoes, a packet of microwave whole grains which did me 3 meals, and a bit of wholemeal pasta a couple of times. I have had salmon and liver and lean pork medallions and lean minced beef and no added sugar baked beans and plenty of eggs as protein sources and low fat/fat free/no added sugar dairy produce like yoghurt and quark and the odd little chunk of mature Cheddar when I really needed a savoury flavour hit. And of course lots of veggies and salad. I have probably been consuming 3-5 portions of fruit a day, but I am now cutting back on that. Just out of curiosity, are olives class as fruit? I have been using those a snack which might increase that fruit tally.
I did buy a bar of 70% cocoa chocolate and I have a square every now and then when I am ready to chew my fingers off! I was a Cadbury's Dairy Milk girl but I am trying to re-educate my palate. The bar has lasted 4 weeks so far with a third left so it will be a slow process!

@Drummer
I am leaning towards your thoughts regarding fats but it is just a gut feeling for me and since I am so new to this disease and do not have enough knowledge to make an informed opinion yet. I don't think the fats will necessarily bring down my BG but I do feel that natural fats from meat and fish are probably healthier than processed fats from vegetables. I love fatty meat to the point that, apart from the liver, I have been finding lean meat almost not worth the effort of eating it. Just no joy in it whatsoever.
I have been getting cramps in my right leg in the night and I did wonder if that was due to the lack of salt.
I really appreciate your input, but will be waiting to discuss the situation with the dietician before changing things too drastically in that direction. 

@Pumper_Sue
Thanks for that information. I will ask about it but I think my health care team may be considering that possibility now since they are talking about me perhaps needing insulin.

@travellor
Thanks for confirming that possibility. In some respects it helps to know that my dietary efforts may not be enough to deal with this because  not seeing any improvement despite my best efforts was disheartening and trying to stick to this long term was making the future look pretty grim.... I love food and the past 5 weeks have taken a lot of the joy out of it.


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## Pumper_Sue (Mar 18, 2019)

rebrascora said:


> @Pumper_Sue
> Thanks for that information. I will ask about it but I think my health care team may be considering that possibility now since they are talking about me perhaps needing insulin.


Please ring up for an urgent apt to be seen by a Dr. Take a urine sample so that you can be tested for ketones 
Type1 waits for no one and you could end up seriously ill if not treated immediately.
As to being told to keep your numbers below 20, I am shocked beyond belief. Your aim is between 5 and 6 before meals. 
As you obviously need insulin you wont achieve that goal without it.


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## travellor (Mar 18, 2019)

I did a low fat diet with the support of the NHS.
We used a meter to tailor the diet to my BG readings, and I had no issues cutting out fats, and eating low GI.
I then did the Newcastle diet, which is 800 calories, predominantly carbs, again with no issues.
I took statins.

I didn't feel tired, I still went to the gym, I exercised, I didn't lose muscle.
I just burnt fat off my body, and reversed my diabetes.
That's how the body works.
Feast or famine has been will us since the stone age.
Fast, you put on weight.
Famine, you burn fat.
You have to get well down the starvation scale before you notice an issue.

I started out morbidly obese, and finished at the bottom end of the healthy BMI.
But I did reverse my type 2 there.

If you have lost 1.5 stones in 5 weeks, no matter what you are eating, you are not only using every calorie that you are eating, you are burning body fat.
Grapes and sultanas won't be raising your BG, as you are using every calorie you eat, then some.
Your BG should be reflecting this.

There is more investigation needed.


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## rebrascora (Mar 18, 2019)

@Pumper_Sue 
Just rang the surgery and explained the situation and the main GP whose practice it is, is going to ring me back this afternoon.

I have to say, reading that Maggie Davies letter to newly diagnosed Diabetes sufferers was a bit of an eye opener and did concern me when I found that my BG has not been even close to the normal range for over a month and probably for a long time before that, maybe even years.. It actually went as high as 29 a few weeks ago when I had a naughty moment and had two thirds of a packet of Jacobs Salt and Vinegar Crackers and that reading was the following afternoon, not the day of my indiscretion. I didn't realise how serious these levels are and whilst I knew that 20 was too high and the nurse was really saying that under 20 was a reasonable goal for me, but not ideal, I didn't understand how much lower I needed to be to be getting close to normal or the seriousness of the risk of being significantly over that level for such a long period. I do wonder if other factors like me not being significantly overweight (now not overweight at all) and not having high cholesterol or blood pressure has encouraged them to try to control this with oral medication and diet first and I can understand them wanting to do that. I would rather start low and build up to the serious stuff rather than go straight in with the strongest medicine and no one wants to have to inject if they don't need to, but I am a little rattled by the risks.. 
Will update when I have spoken to the doc.

Many thanks for your input.

Barbara


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## Pumper_Sue (Mar 18, 2019)

Hi Barbara,
If you have type 1 diabetes no amount of medication will help you. Type1 is an autoimmune condition and the only treatment is injectable insulin.
Please do understand that you have done nothing to cause the condition. Tell the Dr., point blank how little you are eating how unwell you feel and how your numbers still will not go down and are in fact rising and ask him if you are type1 instead of type2.


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## travellor (Mar 18, 2019)

rebrascora said:


> @Pumper_Sue
> Just rang the surgery and explained the situation and the main GP whose practice it is, is going to ring me back this afternoon.
> 
> I have to say, reading that Maggie Davies letter to newly diagnosed Diabetes sufferers was a bit of an eye opener and did concern me when I found that my BG has not been even close to the normal range for over a month and probably for a long time before that, maybe even years.. It actually went as high as 29 a few weeks ago when I had a naughty moment and had two thirds of a packet of Jacobs Salt and Vinegar Crackers and that reading was the following afternoon, not the day of my indiscretion. I didn't realise how serious these levels are and whilst I knew that 20 was too high and the nurse was really saying that under 20 was a reasonable goal for me, but not ideal, I didn't understand how much lower I needed to be to be getting close to normal or the seriousness of the risk of being significantly over that level for such a long period. I do wonder if other factors like me not being significantly overweight (now not overweight at all) and not having high cholesterol or blood pressure has encouraged them to try to control this with oral medication and diet first and I can understand them wanting to do that. I would rather start low and build up to the serious stuff rather than go straight in with the strongest medicine and no one wants to have to inject if they don't need to, but I am a little rattled by the risks..
> ...



Don't let them fob you off.
All the best for the appointment.


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## Ljc (Mar 18, 2019)

Thanks @Pumper_Sue for your post re T1 , I am sorry to say I never even gave that a thought.

@rebrascora . Please take Pumper_Sue ‘s very wise advise ASAP.  T1 is managed differently to T2 as you need insulin urgently from the outset. 

Whether or not they are considering you may have another type of diabetes I cannot say, you see, there  are more people with T2 on insulin (I @m one of them) than their are people with T1 in the country .

The reason I asked about statins is because a few people have had problems with them , some had muscle weakness. ect. 

One thing to keep in mind is that diabetes is veryy indivuial, we give advise on what has worked for us , the best advise I can give you is, if you have T2 then eat to your meter. Many of us tolerate berries better th@n other fruits 

Another is, if you should suddenly start to feel very unwell, then get to A & E .

Don’t fear insulin. Our bodies produce it naturally, it’s just that some of us need to inject it because we are resistant to our own , not producing enough or any. 

Please let us know how you get on.


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## Drummer (Mar 18, 2019)

Good grief - when I started out I was aiming for numbers less than 8 after eating, and after a while saw under 7 - I even saw 5.6 after Christmas dinner, though that was after months of low carb. 
I don't follow the reasoning behind less than 20 at all.   
The foods you chose - for a type two diabetic were really bad news - sweet potatoes spike me more than normal ones - they have more carbs than normal ones - but all those 'healthy' choices just do not work - we who cannot deal with carbs need to return to the good old fashioned diet which got us to where we are today (in evolutionary terms).
Even if you lack insulin, the modern intake of carbs does make many people feel off their game - there are copies of Dr Atkins books on line free to download, and low carb forums available with many reports of the difference lower carbs made.
My LCHF diet is one I hope to keep to for decades - I am just short of 68 years old.


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## travellor (Mar 18, 2019)

Drummer said:


> Good grief - when I started out I was aiming for numbers less than 8 after eating, and after a while saw under 7 - I even saw 5.6 after Christmas dinner, though that was after months of low carb.
> I don't follow the reasoning behind less than 20 at all.
> The foods you chose - for a type two diabetic were really bad news - sweet potatoes spike me more than normal ones - they have more carbs than normal ones - but all those 'healthy' choices just do not work - we who cannot deal with carbs need to return to the good old fashioned diet which got us to where we are today (in evolutionary terms).
> Even if you lack insulin, the modern intake of carbs does make many people feel off their game - there are copies of Dr Atkins books on line free to download, and low carb forums available with many reports of the difference lower carbs made.
> My LCHF diet is one I hope to keep to for decades - I am just short of 68 years old.



Erm?
Most of us are happy with normal BG.

You can choose to go ultra low, but that's like way below the normal non diabetic population, and an amazingly restrictive way to live.

and
"Even if you lack insulin"

Your lifestyle won't exactly work for type 1's.
Just saying. 
Really, really bad advice?

Back to sensible advice for the op?
Seek more testing for type 1, even you can agree to that?


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## rebrascora (Mar 18, 2019)

Hi again.
Thanks for the input everyone. Doctor was incredibly busy today and when I rang at 5.50pm he still had 10 more calls before mine so I suggested that I could wait until tomorrow. I'm thinking that I would rather discuss it with a doctor who is clear minded at the start of the day rather than jaded at the end of a long day and since my levels have been very high for weeks, I don't think I will die overnight.... hope that isn't a case of famous last words!!
I have done a little more testing today after reading the links provided and I am wondering whether I am starting to see some progress although granted I have eaten next to nothing today. I have had no fruit other than a few lemon and herb olives (maybe 8-10 of them over the course of the day) and just water to drink and in fact nothing else since my porridge at breakfast and my BG got down to 10.6 at 3pm but  had come back up to 11.9 half an hour ago, without having eaten anything and been out and had some exercise.
I will be having a fillet of salmon with broccoli and sweet potatoes in an hour or two. I did wonder about the sweet potatoes since "sweet" is in the name. Maybe waxy potatoes would be better??  Anyway, I am wondering if perhaps the Gliclazide is starting to work (today is only day 3 on it) and perhaps an increase in that might be enough to bring me down to normal levels and allow me to eat
Anyway, I feel more comfortable about testing more often now and what I am trying to achieve by testing, so many thanks for pointing me in the right direction with that and I will update tomorrow with result of chat with doc.
Thanks so much everyone. I really appreciate your guidance and input. I understand that my body may not react the same as others both to different foods and medication (for what it is worth I consider insulin to be medication too) I just couldn't figure out how testing twice a day, 2 or 3 times a week was going to tell me anything and clearly it isn't and I need to test much more frequently.


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## Drummer (Mar 19, 2019)

travellor said:


> Erm?
> Most of us are happy with normal BG.
> You can choose to go ultra low, but that's like way below the normal non diabetic population, and an amazingly restrictive way to live.
> and
> ...


But I am not ultra low - at least 50 gm of carbs a day didn't feel like ultra low. 
The OP is eating potatoes and other high carb foods, grapes sultanas crackers blueberries apples bananas and so much more  - and is showing as type two - so I don't understand your post really


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## Jojo catwoman (Mar 19, 2019)

Thank you for your kind words and I hope you get sorted soon. The specialist nurse at my surgery wanted me to go on to insulin after only 2 weeks. I wanted to continue with medication and diet. I have since been told by 2 senior doctors and 2 nurses that her approach was totally wrong.
This is quite a complicated condition and is different for many. I look forward to hearing about your progress.
Take care.


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## Drummer (Mar 19, 2019)

Rebrascora, if you are taking Gliclazide, you should be testing regularly all day - it is a glucose lowering drug and can cause hypos. 
If you drive you have to know you are legal to drive - consult your dr or nurse or see the guidance online from the licencing people.
You can eat lots of things as a type two diabetic, only carbs affect your blood glucose. Protein and fats should be the starting point for meal planning, but if you are on a fixed dose of Glicazide then you need to ensure that you counteract the insulin it hammers out of your pancreas or you could have hypos. 
Reducing down to a level of carbs which some type twos eat without medication could be dangerous, it is a very powerful tool.
If you don't see lower numbers when eating low carb then there is something amiss - but porridge to start the day and potatoes to end it isn't low carb.


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## Docb (Mar 20, 2019)

Reinforce Drummers point.  When I started gliclazide and began to reduce carbs, monitoring stopped me going hypo. In my case the GP was happy for me to keep reducing the gliclazide until it balanced the carb intake.  I suspect that I could drop the gliclazide altogether and still keep BG under control by carb conrol alone suggesting, at least for me, the gliclazide is not particularly effective in promoting insulin production.


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## Jojo catwoman (Mar 20, 2019)

I have been told that driving only becomes an issue when you are taking insulin.  Obviously it would be foolish to say the least, to drive if you felt unwell, whether diabetic or not.  
Of course if in doubt, always test.


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## Robin (Mar 20, 2019)

Jojo catwoman said:


> I have been told that driving only becomes an issue when you are taking insulin.  Obviously it would be foolish to say the least, to drive if you felt unwell, whether diabetic or not.
> Of course if in doubt, always test.


You only need tell the DVLA if you are on insulin, but anyone taking, eg,  Gliclazide is supposed to undertake 'appropriate monitoring' to make sure they aren’t hypo. This is taken from the guide for medical practitioners.


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## rebrascora (Mar 20, 2019)

Hi again guys.
Thanks for all the additional comments and information. I was given the guidance regarding monitoring and driving whilst using gliclazide by the practice nurse but I don't drive very often and since I am trying to increase my exercise levels, I'm driving even less and by BGs are still way too high with no sign of them dropping to normal levels yet.

After my telephone consultation with the senior GP at the practice yesterday, we have compromised on me increasing the Gliclazide to 2 a day, but he is very reluctant to prescribe insulin just yet. The consultant is having a case conference with my practice nurse and Dr tomorrow though regarding my situation and he will have the final say.

My fasting BG this morning was 11.2 and went up to 18 by noon having had only a *tiny* amount of porridge this morning with a spoon of Fromage Frais and no berries (or sugar obviously)...... @Drummer I am still experimenting via blood testing with my breakfast porridge and additives to see if it is the berries, the dairy or the oats themselves that may be the problem. I am open to changing and may try egg and beans tomorrow but want to be sure the porridge is a problem before walking away from oats as they have digestive/gut benefits and since there is so little going through my system right now I would prefer to keep porridge if I can.

I had salmon, broccoli and a small portion of wholegrain mix for dinner last night and a half a nectarine but fell asleep an hour later so didn't get a blood test reading for last night but it was 19.1 before I started cooking dinner at 8pm having not eaten anything since 2pm and that was scrambled eggs on low GI toast.

I have had a wholemeal pitta with red pepper hummus and salad leaves and half a tomato for lunch at 2pm with a fat free, no added sugar yoghurt. My BG at 2 hrs after lunch is 21.7
Yesterday for lunch as mentioned above I had one slice of low GI wholemeal seeded loaf (toasted with a little spread) with 2 scrambled eggs, half a tomato and salad leaves. My BG was back up to 19 last night before I had my evening meal despite having been out and had gentle exercise for a few hours prior.... mucked out, groomed and rode my horses and bedded up for the night etc.  

Tonight I am intending to have a homemade mousakka (with aubergines not potatoes) and salad.

I have one cup of tea with a little milk on a morning and then drink only plain tap water the rest of the day.

I am open to suggestions about what might be better for me or if these meals are reasonable in attempting to lower my BG. I would add that the fromage frais is a recent addition and I have been extremely low fat up until the last couple of days of using that. I am taking a Gliclazide morning and night plus 4 Metformin a day. I appreciate any guidance.


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## Pumper_Sue (Mar 20, 2019)

Those numbers are ridiculously high with the amount of exercise and limited food intake. My personal opinion is your GP is nuts. But then it's not his sight or life at stake is it?

Can you get someone to smell your breath? If it smells of pear drops then please get yourself to the hospital as you are in DKA which is fatal unless treated.


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## rebrascora (Mar 20, 2019)

Docb said:


> Reinforce Drummers point.  When I started gliclazide and began to reduce carbs, monitoring stopped me going hypo. In my case the GP was happy for me to keep reducing the gliclazide until it balanced the carb intake.  I suspect that I could drop the gliclazide altogether and still keep BG under control by carb conrol alone suggesting, at least for me, the gliclazide is not particularly effective in promoting insulin production.



Thanks for your response. How high were your BG readings to start with and how quickly did you see them drop when you started the Gliclazide and how much medication were you taking? Metformin and Gliclazide or just the latter? I'm 5 weeks on Metformin and 4 days in with the Gliclazide and not seeing any downward trend and have drastically reduced carb (particularly sugars) intake already, so just wondering if I am being impatient or my body is just resistant to the medication..... My BG is currently 21.7 two hours after lunch of a wholemeal pitta with hummus and salad leaves


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## rebrascora (Mar 20, 2019)

Pumper_Sue said:


> Those numbers are ridiculously high with the amount of exercise and limited food intake. My personal opinion is your GP is nuts. But then it's not his sight or life at stake is it?
> 
> Can you get someone to smell your breath? If it smells of pear drops then please get yourself to the hospital as you are in DKA which is fatal unless treated.



Thanks Sue

My GP is very well respected both by other medical professionals and his patients, including myself, but he is very conservative. I am sure the consultant will override if he feels there are significant concerns when he reviews my case tomorrow, although I would really like them to have my up to date readings for that meeting/discussion and that is where I feel a bit left out of the loop because no one is asking for my readings and I am not attending the surgery regularly for checks. The nurse did ring me after the doc was on the phone and I think it is her view that I will need insulin but they are hoping the tide will turn before they take that step.  
I don't believe my breath smells of pear drops but I know my urine smells weird.... like dried marrowfat peas when they have been soaked overnight with a bicarbonate tablet?? The nurse wants me to take a urine sample in next week when I go for another blood test and she mentioned testing it for ketones. I appreciate your concerns and I will mention to my partner to be aware of my breath smelling of pear drops but I don't feel like I am able to challenge my medical professionals further at this point and my BGs have been consistently this high for at least 6 weeks now, so hopefully a few more days will not cause too much damage.  The nurse has stressed that if I feel unwell I should contact the surgery or a hospital..... whilst I don't feel great and I do have short spells when I feel unwell with palpitations and just want to lie down, it passes after 15 mins with no other treatment, so I don't feel like I can push things further just now. You know what professional people can be like when you suggest that a lay person like yourself is concerned and thinks I need more proactive treatment.... much as I appreciate that you are very experienced with diabetes.... I was as diplomatic with my doctor as I could be but I felt his hackles go up even over the telephone when I explained your concerns!
I will keep you updated.


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## Drummer (Mar 20, 2019)

So pitta is bread? 
Beans are - for me - a high carb food - you are still not eating a low carb diet so it is difficult to decide if you are not responding to eating like a type two and so more tests should be done or other treatments tried.
The short periods of feeling off could be 'false hypos' from your reduced intake of sugars, but if you are topping up with starches - but you have your meter. 
If you do continue to see high readings and feel unwell for longer periods then the hospital A & E might be the best place for you. 
If you are wrongly diagnosed and require insulin then the situation, going into DKA is a very serious one.


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## Docb (Mar 20, 2019)

rebrascora said:


> Thanks for your response. How high were your BG readings to start with and how quickly did you see them drop when you started the Gliclazide and how much medication were you taking? Metformin and Gliclazide or just the latter? I'm 5 weeks on Metformin and 4 days in with the Gliclazide and not seeing any downward trend and have drastically reduced carb (particularly sugars) intake already, so just wondering if I am being impatient or my body is just resistant to the medication..... My BG is currently 21.7 two hours after lunch of a wholemeal pitta with hummus and salad leaves



I started in the high teen's low twenties, not too dissimilar to yours.  Found at annual review after a HBA1C of 82.  I started by increasing meformin but I reacted badly to it so went back to 500mg a day and started to add the gliclazide.  Stared with 1 pill (40 mg) which did very little.  Went to two (80 mg) and then to three (120 mg).  I then totally confused the issue by starting on a low carb diet whilst upping the gliclazide - told the DSN and she was happy because it was obvious I knew what I was doing and if anything went squiffy I would shout for help.  After three weeks or so my BG was down to a range of 5-10 with occasional drops to low 4's.  Spoke to DSN and agreed to cut back to 80 gliclazide. Kept this up for a couple of weeks and again had a bunch of low 4's so, again after consultation, dropped to 40 gliclazide which is where I am now.

When originally on 1 gilc and just starting on low carb I was ranging 11 to 17.  Now, with 1 glic I am ranging  4.5 to 8.  The difference is that I have got control of the carb intake.

A couple of thoughts on what you have said.  Egg and beans for lunch?  Check the total carb on the side of the tin or if it is some other bean weigh them out and look up the carb content.  TOTAL CARB NOT JUST SUGARS.  I'm aiming for about 80 g carb (total) per day - half a tin of beans will give you a big chunk of that.  Given up wheat based stuff ( bread, pizza, pasta) again because I would have to have tiny amounts to hit my target - four slices of bread would do it. I eat a lot of veg but need to keep potato portions very small to hit my carb target.  Stuff you think ought to be insignificant might not be.  For example,  I had an apple today with my low carb lunch and that gave me an 11.1.  Had a cappuccino the other day and that gave me a 10. Had a 13 the other day which could be explained by my having had more dried fruit than I bargained for in a badly mixed museli. Small amounts of carb can have a big effect on me, maybe it is the same for you, maybe not.

My standard top tip is to get a diary and write things down.  Write down everything you eat, weighing things if necessary and work out the carb content of each meal.  Check that against your blood glucose readings and look for patterns.  As I say I aimed for a total carb intake of around 80 g/day.  When you realise you can get that from a decent portion of chips, it gives you a real marker on what you might have to do.


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## rebrascora (Mar 20, 2019)

Docb said:


> I started in the high teen's low twenties, not to dissimilar to yours.  Found at annual review after a HBA1C of 82.  I started by increasing meformin but I reacted badly to it so went back to 500mg a day and started to add the gliclazide.  Stared with 1 pill (40 mg) which did very little.  Went to two (80 mg) and then to three (120 mg).  I then totally confused the issue by starting on a low carb diet - told the DSN and she was happy because it was obvious I knew what I was doing and if anything went squiffy I would shout for help.  After three weeks or so my BG was down to a range of 5-10 with occasional drops to low 4's.  Spoke to DSN and agreed to cut back to 80 gliclazide. Kept this up for a couple of weeks and again had a bunch of low 4's so, again after consultation, dropped to 40 gliclazide which is where I am now.
> 
> When originally on 1 gilc and just starting on low carb I was ranging 11 to 17.  Now, with 1 glic I am ranging  4.5 to 8.  The difference is that I have got control of the carb intake.
> 
> A couple of thoughts on what you have said.  Egg and beans for lunch?  Check the total carb on the side of the tin or if it is some other bean weigh them out and look up the carb content.  TOTAL CARB NOT JUST SUGARS.  I'm aiming for about 80 g carb (total) per day - half a tin of beans will give you a big chunk of that.  Given up wheat based stuff ( bread, pizza, pasta) again because I would have to have tiny amounts to hit my target - four slices of bread would do it.



Thanks for your reply. I was advised to go wholemeal/wholegrain etc with carbs, so wholemeal bread and pasta and brown rice etc but to cut down the portion size of those which I have and cut all the added sugar as well of course. So I haven't had a cake, biscuit, scone, pizza or anything like that for weeks let alone sweets or chocolate and only the occasional slice of wholemeal bread.  
 I was thinking egg and beans for breakfast if the porridge is spiking me as @Drummer suggested. They are Heinz no added sugar baked beans and maybe some mushrooms with that and the eggs. Just eggs on their own seems so unsubstantial.
*
"Given up wheat based stuff ( bread, pizza, pasta) again because I would have to have tiny amounts to hit my target - four slices of bread would do it"* ..... 4 slices of bread is a *huge* amount to me! What do you eat if you don't eat wheat products? Can you give me an idea of what you have for breakfast and lunch and dinner? I thought I was doing right by substituting sweet potatoes for potatoes and reducing portion size.... if I can't have either, then what do I put on my plate?? .... green veg and lean meat?


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## rebrascora (Mar 20, 2019)

Drummer said:


> So pitta is bread?
> Beans are - for me - a high carb food - you are still not eating a low carb diet so it is difficult to decide if you are not responding to eating like a type two and so more tests should be done or other treatments tried.
> The short periods of feeling off could be 'false hypos' from your reduced intake of sugars, but if you are topping up with starches - but you have your meter.
> If you do continue to see high readings and feel unwell for longer periods then the hospital A & E might be the best place for you.
> If you are wrongly diagnosed and require insulin then the situation, going into DKA is a very serious one.



Can you give me a rough idea (ie examples) of what you eat for breakfast lunch and dinner because I cannot comprehend a diet with no carbs and yes a wholemeal pitta is a flat bread. I think of baked beans as protein and fibre....yes it will also contain carbs but so does almost everything. I also appreciate the oats in my porridge are carbs but also protein and fibre.
Feeling a little lost right now!


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## Ljc (Mar 20, 2019)

Their is around 9g of carbs per 100 g of no added sugar Heinz baked beans.
I don’t know if you eat meat, if so how about some very high meat content sausages with eggs cooked anyway you like, you could add in some mushrooms. I’m making myself feel hungry here lol.

Sadly diabetes is very individual in what carbohydrates our bodies can and can’t tolerate , I am afraid to say that many HCPs (heath care professionals) in the NHS don’t seem to understand this and continue to tell us to eat wholemeal varieties instead of white varieties and unfortunately some people who are unable to test themselves never find out that that wholemeal something or other is spiking them up into double figures that’s why earlier I said eat to your meter, some even have to avoid porridge.


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## Pumper_Sue (Mar 20, 2019)

@rebrascora how about doing a 24 hour fast with just drinking water? Do your bloods every 2 hours and see what results you get.


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## Madeline (Mar 20, 2019)

Baked beans, even the reduced sugar, spike me badly. I know they say wholemeal bread and pasta, brown rice, sweet potatoes etc, but if it’s a grain it’s a carb. If it’s fruit, it’s a carb, if it’s a root veg, you guessed it, it’s a carb. And carbs are carbs, they ALL break down to glucose. Some can get away with a certain amount, others can’t. I can’t manage any. 

Breakfast for me is full fat greek yoghurt, or skyr, plain only though, the fruit ones may not have added sugar, but the fruit itself is full of it. Or eggs and bacon/sausage if I can stomach it. If I’m feeling unwell I’ll just have some kefir.

Lunch is a salad, no tomato. I’ll have fish, eggs, or cheese with it, some sauerkraut (proper raw, not vinegar pickled shop stuff) or maybe a little kimchi (kimchi is a bit more risky because of the paste used)

Dinner is meat or fish with carb free vegetables - Wikipedia has a brilliant list. Pudding, if I have one, is yoghurt again, or a sugar free jelly, or a slice of watermelon - that’s literally water held together by plant cells, and isn’t too heinous.

Occasional carbs - Burgen bread is great, have it with butter as the fat will slow down the carb uptake. I’m also ok with a small amount of good quality, made with cream, ice cream, but only a couple of spoons. 

I’m sensitive to carbs, it’s worse because I’m on steroids, and you’ll hopefully not have to be as strict, but I hope this helps and maybe gives you some ideas for meals.


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## Docb (Mar 20, 2019)

@rebrascora.  My meal pattern is a bit like Madelines. Breakfast... about 20g of museli or granola choosing those with nuts but minimal added fruit, slice of bergen toast with butter and a hint of marmalade and a brew.  Carbs, 10 from the cereal, 10 from the toast, total 20g.  Lunch typically soup (maybe home made or lowest carb ready-made), and bits and pieces (salad, cheese, cold meats). Carbs, 20g or so from the soup.  Tea, today, piece of cod done in the oven in a parcel with lemon and butter, stir fried leafy veg with peppers and onions and small portion of oven chips. Carbs only from the chips 25g.  Evening brew with a biscuit another 17g carb.  Total for the day, 80g carbohydrate.  Developing a few different recipies but generally minimise or eliminate flour based stuff or root veg.  One thing I am working on is thin sauces, more broth than gravy cos you thicken sauces with starch, a carbohydrate.


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## Madeline (Mar 20, 2019)

Almond flour or konjac powder are your friends @Docb 

Naked Noodles stuff, we don’t digest konjac, and it’s great for the gut microbiome. 

BULK POWDERS Pure Glucomannan Powder, Konjac Weight Loss, 100 g https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00IZD2MLE/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_cZRKCbACGP43J


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## Drummer (Mar 21, 2019)

I only eat twice a day - but for my first meal I might have eggs with cheese and tomato, or a salad - a bag of green salad, tomatoes radishes celery coleslaw, plus a tin of tuna in brine or eggs and cheese, or some left over meat from the previous days dinner, or some seafood or fish, or bacon and eggs, mushrooms sweetcorn and courgette or aubergine - so not something insubstantial. I would have coffee with cream either before or after.
In the evening, some sort of protein meat or fish usually but sometimes shellfish - and a stir fry of low carb veges, then frozen berries with sugar free jelly and cream - and more coffee.
I do not eat a dessert every day as I am not hungry enough, but two or three times a week I do, maybe don't have veges with dinner just the meat or fish. I would usually have a second cup of coffee around dinner time.
I do not eat high carb fruit or veges, grain is out usually, but I do make bread from time to time, with lots of high fibre additions, and then freeze it and ration it out. That seems to be only a few times a year though. I thought I'd be making some each month, but find that I do not crave it as much as I thought.


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## rebrascora (Mar 21, 2019)

Many thanks for all the suggestions. I really appreciate you guys taking the time to give me some input because last night I just wanted to crawl into a corner and cry or shout and scream and rant..... I did a little of both because I was feeling pretty frustrated and just didn't know what I was supposed to do for the best.
I'm not sure how much more carbs I have been ingesting than 80g in the day but I doubt it is much if any over..... do you ignore the carbs in eggs and dairy? After I bought the Fat Free, No Added Sugar yoghurt and ate one I realised that it was still very sweet and the ingredients listed potato starch and maize starch which are obviously carbs \\(as well as the fruit and sweetners and overall carbs as 7.9g per pot. Even with reading glasses on, trying to see this info when it is printed in white lettering on an orange background is incredibly difficult, especially as my sight is not great at the moment..... shopping becomes really frustrating when you can't see this stuff and get home to find that you have bought things that seemed to be just what you needed and then find that they are not ideal after all..... I have felt a bit conned by the labelling and with so many people with Diabetes these days there is surely a market for these products to have clearer labelling!!
@Pumper_Sue 
I did try breakfast and dinner with nothing in between the other day and BGs went down to 10.2 (my lowest reading so far) but then came back up towards the end of the day before I had dinner, but I may try a full 24 hr fast in the next few days.
Fasting BG this morning was 16.4. I had 2 eggs, baked beans and mushrooms for breakfast and 2.5 hrs later it was 16.3, so whilst I started the day off with a higher reading than the past couple of days, I have not had a spike after breakfast, so perhaps the porridge has been causing a problem. I guess it will be tuna salad for lunch and see how that goes.
I assume they wanted me to go low fat and low salt and no processed meats to protect my heart and help reduce my weight but now that I am down to a normal BMI, is it OK to increase fat intake in moderation to give me a few more calories. I am still losing weight at a rate of 3-4lbs a week and as I am pretty active through the day, I probably need more calories than the average sedentary person..... OR ..... is my heart still at risk with my BGs being so high and I need to keep the fats low until they come down..... OR.... am I reading correctly that some people find fats actually help to lower their BG by slowing the release from the carbs they eat.... ie full fat yoghurt may be better than low fat?


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## Docb (Mar 21, 2019)

Yep its a right old balancing act but it looks like you are beginning to get a grip.  I keep saying it but write everything down and if you can, plot a graph showing how things are changing over time.



I have put a copy of my data over the last couple of months above showing how blood glucose has varied over time.  I don't have to rely on memory when trying to work out how things are progressing but I can see the trend and can see that over the last couple of weeks things have been pretty good.  The spikes are best treated as blips and focussing on them can be misleading in terms of judging the direction of travel. I'm pretty sure what caused each of the recent spikes and those foods have gone on my do not eat list. Again, keeping an honest food diary has helped in that. It has also meant that when I have seen GP/DN I have been able to show them what has been going on rather than trying to describe it through memory recall. That has helped with their decision making.


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## rebrascora (Mar 21, 2019)

@Docb
Many thanks. I think you are right that I may have just turned a corner with this and perhaps the complex carbs are the big problem.

My sister just very kindly researched and then talked me through downloading "The Sugar Diary" app and how to use it and I have already back logged yesterday and today's readings and meals and even for someone like me who is not tech savvy, it seems to be quite simple to use and I already have a graph taking shape.
I am feeling much more upbeat today seeing a glimmer of hope that if I cut the carbs right out, I may be able to manage this via diet after all and perhaps then experiment with bringing one or two back in to see if I can tolerate some but not others. I really don't want to go on insulin if I don't have to. Fingers crossed my readings continue to come down today with the new dietary knowledge that you have kindly provided me.
Can't tell you how much I appreciate everyone's help here. I was desperately despondent last night and now feel like I have the tools to deal with this today and the sun is shining!
Cheers everyone!


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## Ljc (Mar 21, 2019)

It’s seems that your body managed that breakfast well  
In time as you learn more your levels will start coming down . Often the waking levels are the last to start coming down, so don’t get disheartened if this happens to you. 

I found it helpful to to look online at the carbohydrate content of food labels , which saved an awful lot of time when shopping, you can also expand/enlarge the screen , I suggest to join your usual supermarkets online service to help you in this. 

TBH I only check out the carbohydrate content on food labels as in the UK sugar is already included in the carb content, sugar is just a simple carbohydrate. 
Don’t get me wrong as I don’t actually eat much fat,  but I do not check out the fat content of foods, though I couldn’t eat belly of pork if you paid me (too fatty for me)

That’s the trouble with foods like yogurts that are made to be low fat , they have to add some carbs to make them more palatable, imo go for the normal ones but compare the carbs to other brands/ flavours


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## rebrascora (Mar 21, 2019)

@Ljc 
Thanks for those tips. Looking at products online for content is a great idea.
Funny how we are all different.....What I would give for a piece of belly pork or a nice fatty lamb chop at the moment is nobody's business, even if I can never eat a potato again, although I will crave those no doubt when my new potatoes in the garden are ready. There is nothing quite like home grown new potatoes and I have just bought my seed potatoes and have them chitting. Perhaps my body will be able to cope with the odd one once I have things more under control. 
Just finished my tuna salad so quite excited to do my next reading in an hour or so. Fingers crossed.


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## Ljc (Mar 21, 2019)

Some of us can tolerate a few new potatoes ., I love mine with butter and mint.
Nowt wrong with a pork chop yummmmm , you could cut off some of the fat if you like


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## rebrascora (Mar 21, 2019)

Absolutely delighted to report that I have my 3rd reading in a row that is lower than the previous one despite having two meals...... that is the first sustained positive direction I have had since I started monitoring I think. It also ties in with my symptom onset 2 hrs after I had a steak and ale pie and chips and mushy peas, but no sweet stuff and when my reading shot up to 29 the day after I had 2/3 of a packet of Jacobs Crackers ..... the only time I seriously sinned during my previous 6 weeks of strict dieting with only wholemeal.
I so hope this trend continues. 

I *really, really* can't thank you guys enough for helping me figure this out! Fingers crossed it continues and I can stop or at least cut back the medication at some point. Will be Sod's law if the nurse comes back to me tomorrow to say that the consultant has authorised insulin and then it will be me saying."Hold your horses!"


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## Drummer (Mar 21, 2019)

Only wholemeal - I'm afraid I sighed at that - as over the 'low fat' - anything labelled low fat is best avoided for the time being.
I am rally really hoping that you will be one of the lucky type twos who can get back to normal just by eating low carb - just to show how all the dietary advice pushed at us is simply wrong.
I would say again - low carb often means really low sodium by comparison with normal, so I put a tiny pinch of salt along with the pinch of cinnamon in my morning coffee.
If food processors don't want us to read the amount of carbs in their products I suspect that there is a reason for it, so if it is too small to read I put the pack back on the shelf and move on.
Keep away from grains, potatoes - fruit for the time being and if you feel a little light headed take a drink of water and just maybe have two or three grapes - chew them slowly one by one if you get a real wobble - it reassures your brain and restores normal function in order to get on with life. 
I used to have a couple of shopping lists with low carb foods listed, 10 percent is my limit other than for very dark chocolate - and as a lucky type two myself, I can only say that it is the best diet ever.


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## Robin (Mar 21, 2019)

rebrascora said:


> . Will be Sod's law if the nurse comes back to me tomorrow to say that the consultant has authorised insulin and then it will be me saying."Hold your horses!"


If the consultant does suggest insulin, and you want to hold off, I think you should ask for a GAD antibody test. If this test is done, and comes back positive, it is normally an indication of Type 1, in which case there is really no point in delaying insulin. If you are Type 1, taking Gliclazide will be flogging the proverbial dead horse, and you will feel a lot better once you start on insulin. (I speak as a Type 1 who struggled for six months on Type 2 drugs!)


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## Madeline (Mar 21, 2019)

Tbh I felt SO much better on insulin that I’d leap at the chance.


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## rebrascora (Mar 22, 2019)

Absolutely delighted to report that, apart from a couple of blips when I got a bit stressed (do other people find that stress causes spikes??), I am continuing the downward trend by avoiding carbs.....My fasting reading this morning was 10.6 which is my best result so far and I even had a few berries with some yoghurt last night after my chicken salad *AND *I cut back on the Gliclazide last night but did take the Metformin but have taken both this morning. Had bacon egg mushrooms and beans for brekky and had a slight spike at 13.7 shortly afterwards but it is on it's way down again. Will try an omelette tomorrow.
Nurse just rang to say that consultant has authorised Insulin to be started *today* but having explained my dietary "epiphany" of yesterday and that my readings are coming down despite reducing the Gliclazide back to one a day, she is allowing me to hold back on it to see if I can keep the downward trend going via the carb free diet and current medication (although I personally don't think the tablets are doing anything) The consultant has also asked for me to be referred to his clinic for Type ! testing and I will go along with that unless I have this under control with diet before then. Really feeling like I have some control over this again now and as a control freak, that is a great comfort. She wants to see me on Tues when I go for additional blood tests and Thursday for my appointment with her, so I feel they are getting more involved with this at last but I just wish I hadn't wasted 5 weeks earing porridge and whole grain carbs, thinking I was doing the right thing when it may actually have been the problem and if much more frequent testing had been encouraged I would have got to this "epiphany" much sooner.

I do find it a little odd that the 2nd item of the 10 Top Dietary Tips from the Diabetes UK folder I was given by the nurse, recommends to eat carbohydrates including fruit and wholemeal/wholegrains but just to moderate portions. I appreciate that many people can get away with this and I have a gut feeling that I may be OK with fruit or at least some of them but the literature should maybe include some mention that occasionally some diabetics cannot tolerate any carbs and to test this if BG levels do not start to drop.

Without the help of the wonderful people here on this forum I would still be floundering in the dark and now I really feel that I have light at the end of the tunnel. Can't thank you enough!


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## Madeline (Mar 22, 2019)

I can’t tolerate any at all, I find this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_non-starchy_vegetables very helpful btw. Still think you should be avoiding beans - they are loaded with carbs, even if they are the low sugar ones.


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## rebrascora (Mar 22, 2019)

I will drop the baked beans tomorrow and test again but I am seeing a significant downward trend as it is with just a couple of spoonfuls of them the past 2 mornings. Thanks so much for the link regarding the veg. That is really useful. I shall have to find the ones I can grow myself and get sowing!


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## Ljc (Mar 22, 2019)

I am very pleased to hear that your levels are coming down , what a relief for you. 

I don’t use the menus or dietary tips over on the main site as they are too carby for me. 

However we have some very innovative cooks on this forum , I think you’ll be very impressed. Have a look at these 
recipes 

We bare our sins and shine our halos here 
what-did-you-eat-yesterday

You’ll find the above and more on this forum 
food-carb-queries-recipes.


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## rebrascora (Mar 22, 2019)

Yes a huge relief and I could not have done it without the kind help of the wonderful people who have responded to this thread. I'm down to 10.2 in the middle of the day, so that has to indicate that I am on the right track now. Will be sooooo excited to see my first sub 10 reading in the near future, hopefully. Just off out to source some more testing strips to tide me over the weekend as they are going down rapidly, but will order online after that as it appears to be a bit cheaper.
I will peruse those threads when I get a moment as I really do need some inspiration when it comes to cooking without carbs. Thanks so much for your help.


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## Drummer (Mar 22, 2019)

I am distinctly pleased to read that your numbers are dropping.
For most people lowering carbs enables their metabolism to recover many get off medication, some see total reversion back to normal numbers, there are even some who return to a more normal diet and find their blood glucose is still normal.
It can take time but in my case, after about two years I could see that things were getting back to normal - for me that was putting on weight at the slightest increase in carbs, but at least it was what I have always seen.


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## rebrascora (Mar 24, 2019)

Just want to share my wonderful news of the day with you kind people who contributed to my thread and helped me find my way....

I got my first sub 10 reading just now (*9.7)* *YIPPEE!!* and that was after the indulgence of eating a lovely breakfast of mushroom omelette with salad leaves and a small dollop of mayonnaise again.... so that is 2 mornings running that I have had a delicious breakfast and readings have gone down afterwards. Can't tell you how over the moon I am and how grateful I am to you all for helping me find the right direction with this. I'm high as a kite!!
My next goal is getting a reading under 8 and then slowly coming off tablets after that, although I have halved the Gliclazide already.

I also cooked a really nice meal last night of lamb mince with onions and aubergines and tomato puree and fromage frais with cauliflower florets and it tasted really good and was filling so I am starting to feel more confident about cooking again too and just generally feel like I am going to be able to enjoy food again.

I tried a pear yesterday and that spiked me 4 whole units for an hour or so. I assume that is too much and I should avoid pears? Going to try blueberries this afternoon.


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## Ljc (Mar 24, 2019)

You’ve done reallllllly well. 
Don’t give up on the pears yet, for a long time I had to avoid them, now so long as my BG is in range I can eat a medium pear without needing insulin for it .

How many test strips are they providing you per month.


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## Ljc (Mar 24, 2019)

Oops I forgot to ask, what are you  having for dinner and what time shall I be there


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## rebrascora (Mar 24, 2019)

Thanks for the encouragement. Good to know that I might be able to revisit pears in the future. I am just savouring 24 blueberries with a little yoghurt..... each little indigo gem is bursting with flavour and sweetness in my mouth and contrasting fabulously with the sourness of the yoghurt. A little bit of bliss that a couple of months ago I would have scoffed down and barely even tasted.....My taste buds were seriously overdue for a reboot and what a difference it makes!

Dinner tonight is some fish called Basa that I found on the reduced counter in the supermarket. It will be lightly fried with lemon juice in my new ceramic frying pan which I have used twice and am loving! My friend suggested puy lentils and broccoli but not sure how I will react to lentils. Might just hang fire on them and have cauli and broccoli. I've never really been a fan of fish but part of that was a lack of exposure and confidence in cooking it, but the last twice I have fried salmon with lemon juice it has been lovely, so I am trying to broaden my tastes to other white fish than cod or haddock. Not sure I am ready to cope with sauces with fish yet so keeping it plain.... I have a childhood dread of cod in parsley sauce that I have never overcome!.

As regards testing strips. I got 10 initially and then a pot of 50 from the surgery but I am not written up for any more until August so I dashed out on Friday afternoon to purchase another 50 to tide me over the weekend (not as cheap as I could have got them online but I needed them straight away and patronising the high street is an important consideration too .... it is my lucky pot because my first reading on the new strips was that wonderful 9.7 earlier today. Going to ask the nurse on Tues if she will write me up for some more sooner as August is no real use.... I need to be testing lots now....especially if I am stepping down my medication and not going on to insulin as that will be saving them money, but I am prepared to buy them if she is unable to allow me more on the NHS..


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## Ljc (Mar 25, 2019)

Sorry I can’t remember if you’re on Gliclazide or not, if so testing strips should be on repeat prescription as their is a possibility of hypo’s. I never had a hypo while on them . 

Many here who are refused testing strips or not prescribed enough use the SD Codefree meter as it has much cheaper testing strips than you can buy in chemists, around £8 for a pot of 50, it is only available online either directly from Homehealth (sorry I don’t have a link for Homehealth ) or from
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Codefree-Glucose-Monitor-Monitoring-Testing/dp/B0068JAJFS/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=drugstore&ie=UTF8&qid=1506485682&sr=1-1&keywords=sd+codefree+meter+mmol/l&linkCode=sl1&tag=xfm-21&linkId=f39210144fdc26c27738e45b6d957003&th=1


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## rebrascora (Mar 26, 2019)

Delighted to report that I am still making great progress with my BG readings. My fasting reading this morning was 8.0 and that was after no Gliclazide for a day and a half and cutting my Metformin.
Been to see the nurse today and whilst she is pleased with my progress, she feels that the very low carb levels in my diet are not sustainable and is responsible for my fatigue.....for instance just holding my arms up to wash my hair last night gave me muscle burn. I have a pretty active manual lifestyle as I have 4 horses of my own with all the associated work including mucking out, fencing and land management plus I help my partner with his horses and have chickens and I like gardening. I have to stop frequently to rest and sometimes I hit a brick wall and need to sit or even lie down for 15 mins to recharge, but I am still managing to do everything.... it just takes me a lot longer!.
Anyway, the nurse has given me ketone testing strips for my urine on the instruction of the consultant and more blood testing strips and agreed I can come off the Metformin and half my Gliclazide to 40mg morning and evening and I am to introduce a little fruit into my diet and see how I get on and go back to see her on Thursday. She still feels I need to see the consultant and get Type 1 testing and is less optimistic than I am that I can (or will be able to) manage this with diet alone, but I am not letting her upset my buoyant mood! I am eating well and enjoying food again now (even more than I did before) and my readings are getting near to the normal range at last. Having more energy would be nice but just being able to eat something and enjoy it and not have such high readings is fantastic, plus my weight loss makes me feel better physically and mentally.
Maybe this whole Diabetes diagnosis is going to be a positive thing in making me be more health conscious.... like a wake up call. Better for this than my liver to break down or my heart to stop with all the junk I was eating.


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## Drummer (Mar 26, 2019)

Are you eating enough fat to fuel your lifestyle?
Low carb not sustainable - what is she like?
As long as your blood glucose is low the presence of ketones means you are in ketosis (hurray - that's good) not DKA which is bad.


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## rebrascora (Mar 27, 2019)

I doubt I am eating enough fat (I was a bit alarmed by the percentages suggested in the Keto diet) but I am certainly eating more than a few weeks ago. I would guess that since my body has been living off it's own fat for the past few weeks, that I have been in Ketosis throughout that time but now that my body fat has been reduced I need to provide fats from an external source to slow down or stop that process..... just had a chunk of cheddar cheese to cap off my lunch of celery and cucumber sticks with a little hummus.

Whilst I am open to different ideas, I am somewhat apprehensive/wary of the Keto diet from the little I have read so far and whilst I can see logic in the principle, it is such a big shift from "conventional" thinking on a healthy diet (healthcare professionals seem to get uneasy as soon as you mention increasing fat/oil consumption), I am dithering about fully embracing it at the moment. I guess I need to do more research on it.
I was hoping to discuss it with the dietician next week but unfortunately I have just had a phone call to say that my appointment has been cancelled and they do not have another appointment to offer me at this time.

Disappointed to find that my BG is up a little today at 9.3 fasting reading. Still not in the region of where it was before I cut out the starchy foods, but makes me wonder if I was too quick to discontinue the Metformin. Going to give it another day or two before I decide to start back on them.


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## rebrascora (Mar 28, 2019)

Well. I'm on a real roller coaster ride with this at the moment and whilst Tuesday I was on a real high, today I have very disappointing news.... my Hba1c has gone up from 112 to 116 despite my best efforts over the past 6 weeks and I have to start on insulin tomorrow. I'm gutted as I really thought I was going to be able to control this with diet and feel awful that I will be such a financial drain on my GPs practice and the NHS in general.
I guess I now have a lot more reading to do about insulin use.


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## Madeline (Mar 28, 2019)

Going onto insulin isn’t failing, lovely. There’s nothing you can do about it.


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## Ditto (Mar 28, 2019)

Don't despair, just keep testing and trying different foods and combinations. You'll get there I'm sure.


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## rebrascora (Mar 28, 2019)

Thanks for the feedback. I really do appreciate it.

It is so frustrating when I have cut as much carbohydrate from my diet as is possible and my Hba1c, which was already of great concern, has gone up instead of down. The nurses feel that my pancreas is probably not actually producing any insulin at all and may not have been for some time. She thinks that as a result, we may find that I am very sensitive to it and respond well, so they are starting me on a low dose which I suppose is a slight positive.

I was pretty taken aback today as I really thought I was just going to get my feet checked and touch base with her about my diet and BG readings and discuss possibly adjusting medication, so I didn't really take in a lot of what they were saying but it sounded like there are 2 types of insulin that I will be using and one is a more expensive one that she is going out on a limb to prescribe because she thinks it will be more beneficial for me. I guess I will know more after my appointment tomorrow afternoon when I have the medication and instructions on how to use it.
I'm looking forward to feeling a bit better though as the fatigue is somewhat frustrating. I forget that I can't do very much until I get half way through a job and run out steam and having a full night's sleep without regular pit stops will be nice!


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## Drummer (Mar 28, 2019)

Usually the low carb diet is a powerful BG reducer - if you have not responded like a type two would normally, then you are not the average type two, or you are one of the many other sorts.
At least they seem to be being sensible and starting you at a low dose rather than saying eat loads of carbs after injecting this much insulin which is something I have heard several times.
You will be requiring more supplies, but it is far cheaper than having someone rushed off to hospital to take up a bed there for days at a time, so do not feel that it is some sort of negative result - it is a positive step towards a happier and healthier you, with any luck.


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## rebrascora (Mar 28, 2019)

@Drummer 

Thanks for putting it in perspective a bit. They are now thinking that I may be Type 1 or perhaps somewhere between Type ! and Type 2. I don't really understand exactly what the difference is at the moment. There is just such a lot to take in but at least I'm over the shock of this morning and starting to reconcile myself to my new circumstances, Hopefully tomorrow afternoon I will be more switched on and take things in better but thankfully I do now feel that my health care professionals are supporting me much better and we are working together rather than me feeling a bit left to my own devices and frustrated because what I was doing wasn't working.


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## Ljc (Mar 28, 2019)

I must admit I have been wondering if you had another type of diabetes,
Don’t fear insulin , you’ll be taught the basics, as you gain confidence you will learn more !
The injections don’t hurt and you’ll laugh when you see the piddley little needles most of us use.
Those of us that use insulin will be only too happy to help with any questions you will have.

It sounds like she is starting  you out on on a Basal (background) Insulin that deals with what your liver puts out to keep your body fuelled up between meals /fasting and a Bolus (rapid) Insulin for mealtimes, it’s a very flexible regime.

Do you drive .

Let us know how you get on tomorrow


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## Pumper_Sue (Mar 28, 2019)

rebrascora said:


> Well. I'm on a real roller coaster ride with this at the moment and whilst Tuesday I was on a real high, today I have very disappointing news.... my Hba1c has gone up from 112 to 116 despite my best efforts over the past 6 weeks and I have to start on insulin tomorrow. I'm gutted as I really thought I was going to be able to control this with diet and feel awful that I will be such a financial drain on my GPs practice and the NHS in general.
> I guess I now have a lot more reading to do about insulin use.



If you are type 1 or 1.5 which is a slow onset type1 then it's an autoimmune condition and no amount of dieting will stop you from needing insulin, end of story.
You wont be a drain on your GP practice either as they get paid extra for people with diabetes 

So forget the guilt trip learn to use your insulin correctly and enjoy life to full.

If you haven't got a medical exemption certificate then make sure the nurse fills in the form for you to be sent off so you can have free prescriptions.

Also you need to inform the  DVLA that you are on insulin.


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## rebrascora (Mar 29, 2019)

Thanks so much for the encouragement. I'm over the shock of it today and ready to get my head around a new management system for this.

@Ljc 
Yes that sounds exactly like what they were suggesting now that you have written it out for me. She did say that if I wasn't going to be eating carbs say for breakfast when I have a mushroom omelette, then I won't need to inject before that and I plan to keep on with a low carb diet, but probably not quite as strict as I have been the past week. Maybe just increase root veg and fruit but keep off the starchy stuff for the time being and I don't want to slip back into my sugar addiction now that I have conquered it, so will be avoiding sweet stuff and don't even really feel like I am denying myself anymore in that regard. I like being able to savour food now.
Yes I drive although not every day and mostly just very short journeys but I will be informing DVLA and my insurance of my new circumstances this afternoon.

@Pumper_Sue 

They think I have had quite a fast onset as a year ago my blood sugar readings were in the normal range and literally overnight 9 weeks ago I developed really bad thirst and frequent weeing although I had been suffering from fatigue for longer, but just put it down to menopause/getting older.
I go to see the consultant on 30th April and believe that they will do more testing then to try to establish my diabetes category.  

Yes, I have a medical exemption certificate thanks. That was the very first thing the nurse did when she got my first Hba1c reading 6 weeks ago and started me on Metformin. Apparently they want me to continue to take that as it has benefits for the heart, but they are stopping the Gliclazide now that I am starting insulin. 

Just out of interest, I have been a blood donor all my life and have given 50 pints over the years and they tell me that my blood is used for children and babies in particular because it has very low levels of antibodies. In the last couple of years I haven't given blood for various reasons and I am curious if there could be any sort of connection firstly in that the regular replacement of blood might have been "cleaning up" my system and secondly that if this is related to an autoimmune response, whether those low antibody levels in my blood might be relevant.


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## Pumper_Sue (Mar 29, 2019)

rebrascora said:


> I have a mushroom omelette, then I won't need to inject before that and I plan to keep on with a low carb diet, but probably not quite as strict as I have been the past week. Maybe just increase root veg and fruit but keep off the starchy stuff for the time being and I don't want to slip back into my sugar addiction now that I have conquered it, so will be avoiding sweet stuff and don't even really feel like I am denying myself anymore in that regard. I like being able to savour food now.



Please until you learn how to manage your insulin have what is normal for you. Many people have to inject insulin for just protein and fat meals so don't go complicating things.

You will at some stage be taught how to carb count so always be carb aware.


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## Ljc (Mar 29, 2019)

Like Pumper Sue says It’s best to stick to what is usual for you atm as going on insulin is a bit of a learning curve, not only for you but your nurse too, you see just like everything else about diabetes our insulin needs differ, your nurse has to find out what your insulin ratios are .


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## rebrascora (Mar 29, 2019)

Unfortunately normal for me was 3+ teaspoons of sugar in my coffee, porridge with sugar and fruit, packets of sweets and chocolate and toast, toast and possibly more toast, with a variety of toppings (sweet or savoury) and perhaps a meal with meat and veg  and potatoes or pasta on a night or beans or scrambled eggs on toast. Toast would almost always be wholemeal and the same for pasta and there would be an occasional takeaway. Meal times were completely irregular and evening meal could be anywhere from 8pm to 2am.
I have now had 9 weeks finding a more healthy diet and breaking bad dietary habits and feel like I am eating well and enjoying my food now and in control, so whilst I understand what you are saying, and I will be introducing root veg including potatoes and more fruit, I do not want to go back to any of the other stuff, even the bread. I may however reintroduce a little honey as I feel that it has health benefits beyond it's sugar content and it is home produced raw honey.

Edited to add....

Essentially, my body was running largely on carbs and in particular sugar for far too long. I felt a bit like a car that was running very nicely on petrol until someone put a tank full of diesel in by mistake. I now feel like I have been cleaned out and converted to run on diesel and it feels better.


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## Ljc (Mar 29, 2019)

Oops I should have put , your new normal . It’s amazing how ones taste can change isn’t it.
Oh yes honey slurp. I used to have a honey sarnie till I discovered peanut butter, banana and honey sarnies  this was years before diabetes, I’d find them too sweet now let alone the amount of insulin I would need .

How about starting a thread about bees and beekeeping


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## rebrascora (Mar 29, 2019)

Ljc said:


> How about starting a thread about bees and beekeeping


Not sure how appropriate that would be on a diabetes website...won't I get kicked out?? That said, I keep my bees more for the joy of it than honey production. I'm very much a "natural" beekeeper and I encourage my bees to live as normal a life cycle as possible, allowing them to swarm at will and overwinter on their own honey rather than rob them and then feed them syrup as a poor substitute. As a result of swarming (which is kind of their equivalent of giving birth), I don't get much honey from each hive and there are always plenty of willing recipients for it within my circle of friends and family. I supply the swarms to new local beekeepers free of charge to help them get started and mentor some of them..... maybe you are tight and I should see if there is any interest for a beekeeping thread, especially as we are just approaching beekeeping season. It is a fascinating and magical hobby and doesn't need to be nearly as expensive as the conventional beekeepers would have you believe. It can easily be done on a shoestring as a hobby, particularly if your interest is more in supporting the bees and perhaps getting a little honey rather than intensively farming them for maximum production..


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## rebrascora (Mar 29, 2019)

Anyway, back to my diabetes.... I have been given Levemir (6 units) to be used on a night before bed and NovoRapid. (4units) to be used before a meal containing carbs, so I don't need it when I have my mushroom omelette and green salad brunch. Monitoring before meals and 2 hrs after and a fasting reading on a morning. I had a practise run with a water injector and it all seems incredibly simple and painless and I'm back to feeling confident and positive again. The nurse has given me lots of info and advice and will ring me on Tues to see how I am getting on but I feel much happier about the whole situation. *You guys have all been amazing with your guidance and support. I can't thank you enough.*


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## Madeline (Mar 29, 2019)

MrMadeline would love some bees, but is waiting until we’ve decided whether we are moving, or not. Meanwhile I am going to make some flowerpot bumblebee houses, and we have lots of bee friendly plants in the garden.


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## Drummer (Mar 29, 2019)

There were wild bees in the garden at the previous house, and if I think of Summer days in the garden I always envisage the row of lemon balm I planted for the bees and the buzz as one emerged from the hole in the wall and flew over to the row, then the busy visiting of the tiny flowers and then the buzz back home again - hundreds of times all the long day.


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## Madeline (Mar 29, 2019)

Drummer said:


> There were wild bees in the garden at the previous house, and if I think of Summer days in the garden I always envisage the row of lemon balm I planted for the bees and the buzz as one emerged from the hole in the wall and flew over to the row, then the busy visiting of the tiny flowers and then the buzz back home again - hundreds of times all the long day.


That sounds so lovely. We have lots of lavender for them, but I think I might put some lemon balm in if they like that too.


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## Ljc (Mar 29, 2019)

You need to test


rebrascora said:


> Not sure how appropriate that would be on a diabetes website...won't I get kicked out?? That said, I keep my bees more for the joy of it than honey production. I'm very much a "natural" beekeeper and I encourage my bees to live as normal a life cycle as possible, allowing them to swarm at will and overwinter on their own honey rather than rob them and then feed them syrup as a poor substitute. As a result of swarming (which is kind of their equivalent of giving birth), I don't get much honey from each hive and there are always plenty of willing recipients for it within my circle of friends and family. I supply the swarms to new local beekeepers free of charge to help them get started and mentor some of them..... maybe you are tight and I should see if there is any interest for a beekeeping thread, especially as we are just approaching beekeeping season. It is a fascinating and magical hobby and doesn't need to be nearly as expensive as the conventional beekeepers would have you believe. It can easily be done on a shoestring as a hobby, particularly if your interest is more in supporting the bees and perhaps getting a little honey rather than intensively farming them for maximum production..



 Before bed too, thisis to ensure you are at a safe level to go  to sleep on.  Did the nurse advise you on what your bedtime level should be  
I would be very interested to learn more.  Personally I don’t see a problem with starting a bee keeping thread so long as it is in the , Off the subject forum. If you are interested in this contact Northener just to be sure. 

Last year sowed a wild patch in our garden, we had quite a few bumble bees and other insects and the birdies had some extra protein , some seeds have started sprouting already.


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## rebrascora (Mar 30, 2019)

Ljc said:


> You need to test


Yes I am testing frequently. It was 9.3 before dinner last night and 8.3 two hours later. I had a lovely meal with my partner (he has mostly been eating ready meals whilst I have been trying to get my diet sorted out these past few weeks) of ham hock with potatoes, carrots, cauliflower and broccoli with a cheese sauce. I put 2 pieces of boiled potato on my plate but only managed to eat one and 2/3 of the veg and meat.... basically I dished up a plate of food that would have been my normal portion size a couple of months ago and it was way too much... I can't remember a time when I didn't clear my plate.... so this was a bit of a revelation, but a good one..... and I have the leftovers for another day. My reading 2 hours later just before bed was 8.3 so that was a big improvement as it had gone down after dinner instead of up. Took my Levemir insulin and went to bed.  *Absolutely delighted to report my fasting reading this morning was 6.2 and 2 hours later before my breakfast omelette it was still 6.2.* Those are my first readings in the normal range since this started and two identical readings 2 hours apart is even better! Just finished my omelette and green salad and will be testing in 2 hours..... can't wait! I haven't used the insulin with this meal as there are no appreciable carbs in it, so will be interesting to see what happens. Fingers crossed I don't rise too much. I didn't really expect to see such instant results and for it to be within the normal range straight away.


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## rebrascora (Mar 30, 2019)

Lovely to hear your stories about bees and that you have been planting flowers for them. Some of the best flowers are the wild ones and in particular dandelions so please don't be too keen to eradicate those rays of sunshine. I find that they love marjoram which grows wild next to my hives but I also have lots of lemon balm. I am fortunate to have lots of wild forage for my bees and in fact the bees have actively "gardened" the adjacent bankside above my house over the past 20 years, selectively pollenating and hence propagating all the things that they like best, so it is a wilderness of flowering cherry, brambles, black thorn, hawthorn, rosebay willowherb, meadow sweet and Himalayan balsam. to name the main ones but there are lots more. The bankside was grazed when I was a child but then fell fallow and has now been returned to wilderness in large part by the efforts of my bees. It provides cover and forage for many other creatures including badgers, deer and hares which I see on a regular basis and a barn owl visits to hunt the rodents in summer. Yes it looks a mess if you only see things in terms of "man conquering nature" type gardening but there is much beauty in it too and the wild flowers are infinitely healthier for the bees than the fields of crops which cover most of the countryside and are treated with toxic chemicals. I love watching the bees returning with pollen on their legs and working out which type of flower they have been visiting for that colour pollen.... there are even online pollen charts, just like DIY store paint charts, where you can see which plant produces which colour pollen from dirty white brambles, to red (snowdrops) to petrol blue (rosebay willowherb) and of course the more common yellow and orange pollens from the likes of dandelion and gorse.
Anyway, I have taken enough space on this thread with bees, so will investigate starting a new thread for that and try to keep this to my progress with tackling my diabetes from here on in.


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## rebrascora (Mar 30, 2019)

Gone up to 7.0 two hours after breakfast but I don't think that is too bad, especially compared with my previous readings. Heading out into the garden to do some work and try to bring it down a little.


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## rebrascora (Apr 3, 2019)

Well, I had my first hypo yesterday which was a bit scary. Came down from a fasting reading of 10.3 to 3.4 after my breakfast where I took 4 units of NovoRapid with bacon and egg and mushrooms with half a *thick* slice of wholemeal bread. I thought I was following the advice from my dietician of including small portions of carbs with each meal rather than avoiding altogether for 2 meals and then having it all on an evening. My partner only had thick sliced bread in the house as I haven't been eating bread, so I thought half a slice was a smaller than normal portion. Did better today as I had a whole slice with just 2 units and went up from a fasting reading of 7.o to 9.0. I guess tomorrow I will try 3 units depending on what my fasting reading is. I suppose things are going to be a bit erratic in these early stages until I get this figured out.
I got a cancellation appt with a dietician on Monday and she is running a Carbohydrate Counting Course next Tues which she says I can join, so hopefully that will help me get to grips with balancing things better.

The hypo did knock my confidence quite a bit as I was not really expecting to take such a fast nose dive. Thankfully I was in the house at the time and was able to rest and let my glucose tablets take me back up but I had 2 failed attempts to get blood readings because I was shaking and struggling to get enough blood from my finger prick before I was successful and got the 3.4 reading. I texted my sister to let her know what was happening and my partner arrived home for lunch shortly afterwards, so I had support during my recovery, but it did make me realise just how serious this is!


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## Drummer (Apr 3, 2019)

I probably should not write this - me not being on insulin or anything at all - but my immediate thought was stick with the half a slice and reduce the insulin - closely followed by 'show it who's boss' - and you need to refine the instructions to suit how you react, not what might be expected.
Don't  let a slight hitch at the start of the learning process dent your confidence in your ability to cope with this whole new juggling act - you did everything exactly right the first time you needed to do it - - gold star for that.


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## rebrascora (Apr 3, 2019)

Thanks @Drummer I appreciate your input
I'm a bit torn at the moment between the medical advice which is that I need carbs....and the information I am reading about low carbs, higher fat diets.....I'm reading the "8 week blood sugar diet" by Dr Michael Mosely. I don't know enough about my diabetes yet to make an informed decision either way, so I am leaning towards a small to moderate amount of complex carbs for each meal at the moment until I get a better idea of balancing things on a more "normal" diet before I start experimenting with other diets. That way, if anything goes wrong I can at least say that I am following the advice given by my health care professionals, rather than contravening their advice, especially when I have sought their opinion on "Keto" etc. I do think there is something about a low carb diet that is interesting/appealing even, but I just don't know enough at this stage to follow it without the support of my health care professionals and they are now very much leaning towards me being Type 1 or somewhere between 1 and 2, which may make a difference here.


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## Drummer (Apr 3, 2019)

If you are injecting insulin you need to be balancing it with your carb input - that is the need for carbs, it is an absolute really - but if you have the freedom to adjust your dose - as you say you did, my fist - and now second thought - is to tune the insulin to the carbs as you wish to eat them. That way you can settle into a menu of meals, each one familiar and routine and fine tune your insulin, the amount, the timing, all the nuances which type ones write about, so as to get if not the same response at least a good average about which all your results hover ever more closely.


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## Robin (Apr 3, 2019)

rebrascora said:


> Thanks @Drummer I appreciate your input
> I'm a bit torn at the moment between the medical advice which is that I need carbs....and the information I am reading about low carbs, higher fat diets.....I'm reading the "8 week blood sugar diet" by Dr Michael Mosely. I don't know enough about my diabetes yet to make an informed decision either way, so I am leaning towards a small to moderate amount of complex carbs for each meal at the moment until I get a better idea of balancing things on a more "normal" diet before I start experimenting with other diets. That way, if anything goes wrong I can at least say that I am following the advice given by my health care professionals, rather than contravening their advice, especially when I have sought their opinion on "Keto" etc. I do think there is something about a low carb diet that is interesting/appealing even, but I just don't know enough at this stage to follow it without the support of my health care professionals and they are now very much leaning towards me being Type 1 or somewhere between 1 and 2, which may make a difference here.


Mealtime insulin has basically been developed to cope with the digestive pattern of a 'normal' or 'average' meal, which for most people consists of a mix of fat, protein and carbs. It’s easier to stick to this type of meal when you are getting used to insulin. Eating a low carb meal when using insulin can result in a hypo after a couple of hours, followed by a rise later on, because the meal is digesting more slowly, and the insulin gets into the system faster. It’s not impossible to work round, but it needs careful adjustment of the timing of the insulin, sometimes it needs the dose to be split, all things that aren’t recommended for a beginner. It’s like someone with L plates on being asked to do a hill start on their first driving lesson, before they’ve mastered clutch control!


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## Ljc (Apr 3, 2019)

It sound like your body gave you a really good hypo warning.  Yes they are scary but it sounds like you dealt with it well.   One piece of advise I can give you is, if for any reason you are unable to test when hypo , maybe because you’re  shaking too much is to treat the hypo then try test again 15 mins later by which time the shakes may have eased, if not then treat and try testing again in 15 mins .
A couple of times I have had really bad hypo symptoms and I just grabbed my dextrose tablets as they were close to me shoved them in my mouth then tested or rather tried to .

Robin’s  advise is spot on.  In time you will be making your own decisions about how much insulin you need and when to take it, including if you need to split the units for that particular meal (don’t worry about that now ok ) however you are at the very beginning with insulin and your nurse/ dietitian is too so my advise is to go by the advise they have given you basically the doses they start us out on is their best guess, so their is much tweaking to be done. 
Later on when you have learned how to adjust your insulin to carbs eaten then you can start changing your diet. 

It’s great to hear  that you are going in a carb counting course soon, it a very flexible regime.


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