# Questions About Libre



## TheClockworkDodo (Jun 9, 2017)

I know there have been several threads about Libres, but I thought it would be useful to have a general thread for questions for Libre users from those of us who are thinking of getting one, or have recently got one - please feel free to chip in with different questions!

My first one is - do you need Windows to run the software?!  I have a Linux machine and, what with R being an internet security specialist, we wouldn't have Windows in the house (that sounds a bit funny, but you know what I mean ).  Only just thought of it when I realised that my spare meter - which I don't normally use, but is much fancier than my normal meter - has software I'm not using because it requires Windows or a Mac.

I also wondered about alcohol wipes - on other threads people have mentioned using alcohol wipes before applying sensors.  I'm allergic to alcohol - would I be able to use an alternative (I have alcohol-free, scent-free handwipes if they would do)?  Are they just to clean the skin, or what?


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## Ljc (Jun 9, 2017)

Hi. This thread is a great idea.
1.  Yes you do need Windows  to run the software.
2. I believe the alcohol wipes  are to clean , remove oil and kill germs on the skin. Why not phone abbott' helpline
0800 170 1177


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## TheClockworkDodo (Jun 9, 2017)

Thanks, Lin 
Oh dear, that would mean R would have to set something up on the computer which pretends to be Windows for me, he's not going to be too happy!
Can't use phone, but I could email Abbott, thanks - I've got their email address.


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## grovesy (Jun 9, 2017)

TheClockworkDodo said:


> Thanks, Lin
> Oh dear, that would mean R would have to set something up on the computer which pretends to be Windows for me, he's not going to be too happy!
> Can't use phone, but I could email Abbott, thanks - I've got their email address.


I am sure people have more success ringing Abbott than emailing, from what i have read.


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## Ljc (Jun 9, 2017)

grovesy said:


> I am sure people have more success ringing Abbott than emailing, from what i have read.


Yes I've heard several people say they've never received a reply to their emails.


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## TheClockworkDodo (Jun 9, 2017)

That's odd, I have emailed them several times and they've always got back to me.
I can't use the phone because my cognitive dysfunction is so severe - people ask me things like my postcode or my date of birth, and I can't remember them


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## grovesy (Jun 9, 2017)

TheClockworkDodo said:


> That's odd, I have emailed them several times and they've always got back to me.
> I can't use the phone because my cognitive dysfunction is so severe - people ask me things like my postcode or my date of birth, and I can't remember them


Maybes you have been lucky then, as I have read it many times.


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## trophywench (Jun 9, 2017)

The actual reason for the wipes is to enable the sensors to adhere and stay stuck, for a fortnight at a time, I'd think  However - the two I used, one with the wipe and the other without (though I applied it soon after a shower, so had deliberately not put any body lotion on that bit of me) - the first one ripped off and out completely and painlessly after 9 days as I caught the protruding edge of it on the edge of a thinnish wooden (might not be wood, but looks like it LOL) door in our motorhome whilst walking into the bathroom, but the second one which stayed firmly stuck throughout was the very devil to remove, and also quite painful - neither of us could get any of the narrow protruding edge loose, to get hold of, to pull the thing.  The pain was more from the scraping fingernail actions than from the sensor itself I suppose.

No idea whether either of these is typical.


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## trophywench (Jun 9, 2017)

Neither bore any resemblance to my pump meter readings (whereas my HbAic always does) nor showed any patterns and if I'd treated any of the deep and very long lasting hypos it said I had - or the alternative long-lasting over 20s - I'd have been in VERY severe trouble.

I have also to say - I am actually the only person I've come across so far, who has had such consistently ridiculous readings.


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## mikeyB (Jun 9, 2017)

The fun comes, as I've done, is when you compare results using Optium test strips in the reader when emerging from a hypo. The scores are 2-3 out on the rise, but come together after about 15-20 minutes. I don't use the software at all, that's one obsession too far for me. That's just me, mind.


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## TheClockworkDodo (Jun 9, 2017)

Interesting, thank you both.  Would be good to hear from a few other people about the wipes - has anyone else used a sensor without using a wipe first, and did you have the same result as Jenny?!  Has anyone tried their own wipe rather than an official alcohol one?

@mikeyB - good to know I wouldn't actually need to use the software.  What can you do without it, and what can you only do with it, can anyone tell me?  Presumably I could scan the sensors and see a graph of the results without having to connect anything to a Windows machine?

This may be a daft question, but how does the scanner work - it doesn't need a wifi connection or anything like that does it?


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## Robin (Jun 9, 2017)

I always use a wipe, just because they're provided and it tells you to! So some sensors have prised off easily at the end of the fortnight, some I've had to scratch and scrabble for ages to get a start on them.
I reckon the sensors are read by magic. ( though strictly speaking it probably has its own Bluetooth or something new fangled) Provided the reader battery is charged ( plug and lead supplied with the starter pack), you just activate the sensor by swiping the reader over it, wait an hour, then swipe again and it starts giving you readings. No external wifi or anything like that required.


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## pav (Jun 9, 2017)

It's best to phone Abbott as they are not very good in replying to emails, from the times I have phoned them about the Libre I found them helpful.

While the Libre is very helpful to a vast amount of people, for me it never worked reliably and had to have sensors replaced, always read very low compared to finger prick tests even allowing for the time lag difference between strips and sensor. What I did find useful was it showed very well my trends of highs and lows over the 14 days. According to the Libre I spent most nights permanently in the hypo region


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## Ljc (Jun 9, 2017)

You don't have to use the software if you don't wish to. I've downloaded it but so far I haven't used it. TBH The scanner holds all the info I need and it's easy to scroll back and forth. You don't lose all the info when a sensor runs out either sorry I can't recall off hand how much info the scanner can hold. 
My last sensor was the devils own job to remove, I did eventually prise the thing off, only to find the sticky pad was still well stuck to me.


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## TheClockworkDodo (Jun 9, 2017)

Thanks for your replies everyone 



pav said:


> What I did find useful was it showed very well my trends of highs and lows over the 14 days. According to the Libre I spent most nights permanently in the hypo region



That's the thing I most want it for, tbh - I hypo so much during the day, I really want to see what I'm doing at night.  Just had a chat with diabetes nurse at my surgery and she thinks it would be a really good idea for me to get one.  R could scan me when he gets up in what he fondly imagines to be the morning (and I consider to be the middle of the night), as that could be anything from 4-6 hours before I would wake otherwise.

I really can't use the phone at all, @pav, but I have been emailing Abbott regularly ever since I've been diabetic - I ask for diaries and control solution, which they send me - and I've never had them not reply.  I've also emailed them about various issues and with various questions over the years, and they've always replied and been helpful.


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## mikeyB (Jun 9, 2017)

I think the problem lies in the adhesive technology. I've learned from experience that when I apply the sensor, I wait for ten seconds or more before removing the applicator, and they then stay on for the duration. I think the adhesive is activated by body heat. I tend to leave old ones on for two or three days over their time. It makes it easier to get them off.

With regard to using a wipe, why bother? Stick the thing on after a shower, dry off with a clean towel and you'll be fine. Fiona at the surgery never uses an alcohol wipe before blood tests. The thought that the back of your arm is teeming with bacteria waiting to kill you is ridiculous. All the wipe is doing is removing grease from the skin that could affect adhesiveness. Washing does the same.


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## Ljc (Jun 9, 2017)

Long as you scan every 8 hrs the graph will have no gaps in it.
I was wondering if your nurse could arrange for you to have a trial of the Libre. I expect the answer would be no , but as your having so many hypo's it would be a good idea or a CGM.


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## trophywench (Jun 10, 2017)

I think Abbott reps are pretty good at responding to DSNs for a few trial sets, or at least have been, cos odd folk on forums have had them from all sorts of different hospitals all over the country.  You can but enquire of yours if they've thought to ask!


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## TheClockworkDodo (Jun 10, 2017)

I was offered a place on a Libre group trial, but because I wouldn't have been well enough to do the group thing, I had to decline.  DSN said then she'd try to get me a free Libre from the Abbott rep to trial on my own, but nothing came of that.  Doesn't matter anyway, I can afford one, so better the free ones go to people who can't.

I've been on waiting list to borrow hospital CGM for over a year.  I was sent an appointment for May this year but that was for 9.30am, so again I had to explain I wasn't well enough to get there at that time (this must be on my records, but they don't seem to be very joined up about these things round here - I suspect partly the penalty of cross-county medical care, partly having annual review with surgery diabetes nurse rather than hospital DSN - surgery nurse is lovely, but I've never actually got to meet the DSNs here).  DSN said she would get back to me with an afternoon appointment instead, but I'm not holding my breath.


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## TheClockworkDodo (Jun 10, 2017)

mikeyB said:


> With regard to using a wipe, why bother? Stick the thing on after a shower, dry off with a clean towel and you'll be fine. Fiona at the surgery never uses an alcohol wipe before blood tests. The thought that the back of your arm is teeming with bacteria waiting to kill you is ridiculous. All the wipe is doing is removing grease from the skin that could affect adhesiveness. Washing does the same.



Thanks, Mike - I just wanted to know that it was feasible not to use the thing.  I have blood tests in back of hand, but they don't use a wipe for those either - I just make sure I wash my hands before I go to surgery.

My first half-unit insulin pen came with detailed instructions about how it should be cleaned out with alcohol - impossible for me.  I pointed this out to DSN who gave it to me and she said "oh, we don't bother with that any more - you already have your germs!"


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## trophywench (Jun 11, 2017)

An insulin pen 'cleaned out' ????????  I've never heard of that and certainly never done it to one!

I spose if you were sharing it or exposed it to something or someone terribly infectious - but they've usually been got from a store cupboard at whatever hospital clinic I attended and handed to me, then been put in my bag (see when it's new and just handed over, I would have put it, in my bag rather than chucking it in every time for the rest of its life LOL)

What the heck needs cleaning when it's new?


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## TheClockworkDodo (Jun 11, 2017)

I don't think it meant when it was new, I think it meant every time I changed the cartridge.  Or possibly, if really obsessive, every time I used it.  Can't remember which now - I haven't read the instructions since then!  The nurse thought it was daft too, and I was much relieved when told I didn't need to do it.


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## TheClockworkDodo (Jun 11, 2017)

That's really useful information, David, thank you


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## katie roe (Jun 11, 2017)

When I first started on the libre they didn't even send wipes - unless I just ignored them! Now they send 2 so I use them, don't know what they are for, or why they send 2!

They always seem to stick fine for me, and are a pain to get off! The only time I've lost one is when I sweated in the gym just after I'd stuck one on, so now I do it before bed.

Another tip - I 'brew' mine for a good 8 hours before activating it - then the readings are accurate from the start. Just stick it on and leave it. Otherwise I found the readings were out quite a lot for the first day.


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## TheClockworkDodo (Jun 12, 2017)

Thanks, Katie - that's useful to know


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## TheClockworkDodo (Jun 12, 2017)

I've thought of a couple more questions:

I know you're supposed to stick the sensors on your arm - has anyone experimented with sticking them on leg or abdomen at all?  Did it make any difference?  I ask because I thought if I turn out to be just a bit sensitive to the sticky stuff, skin on leg might be less sensitive than on arm.

And - can you wear the sensors in the bath?  Our shower is broken, only runs cold at the moment  so I'm having baths unless the weather is very hot!!

Anyone else got any questions, or is it just me?


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## Ljc (Jun 12, 2017)

a cold shower brrrrrr. Yes they can take being immersed for around 30 mins. 
I've heard that some people are experimenting with placing them in different places, personally I've not tried this.


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## Lucy Honeychurch (Jun 12, 2017)

I'm getting the meter and one sensor through my DSN next month.


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## Ljc (Jun 12, 2017)

Lucy Honeychurch said:


> I'm getting the meter and one sensor through my DSN next month.


I trust you will find it very useful. The graph is so informative, it fascinating to see what's goes on.


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## Lucy Honeychurch (Jun 12, 2017)

Ljc said:


> I trust you will find it very useful. The graph is so informative, it fascinating to see what's goes on.[/QUOTE
> 
> I'm really looking forward to trying it.


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## Lucy Honeychurch (Jun 12, 2017)

I'm looking forward to trying it


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## TheClockworkDodo (Jun 12, 2017)

Thanks, Lin - and good luck with it, Lucy!  Let us know how you get on.  I might have got one by then too - am trying to think of all the questions I might have before I get it, as I'll have 30 days to find out whether or not it's suitable for me, and I don't want to waste any of them processing information, as that can take me a long time (starter pack can be returned for a refund within 30 days if not suitable).


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## ypauly (Jun 12, 2017)

I have given up on the sensors, had 5 days lasted 13, 1, 10, 1, 1, I even used this skin-tack wipe recomended to me, and yet I have never had 1 last the distance.

I do have a physical job in a hot sweaty factory, where I climb in and out of machines all day though. Will maybe retry when or if they come out with a 3 day/1 week one.


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## TheClockworkDodo (Jun 12, 2017)

That's a shame, ypauly - did you get Abbott to send you a replacement every time they fell off?  I believe they will do this.


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## mikeyB (Jun 12, 2017)

Ypauly, you could try applying the sensor, then applying a Tegaderm dressing over it. They are water and sweat  proof. That would certainly protect the sensor - some people do the same for swimming. You may need to change the Tegaderm fairly frequently, and they aren't exactly cheap, but it beats losing £24 of sensor.


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## ypauly (Jun 12, 2017)

mikeyB said:


> Ypauly, you could try applying the sensor, then applying a Tegaderm dressing over it. They are water and sweat  proof. That would certainly protect the sensor - some people do the same for swimming. You may need to change the Tegaderm fairly frequently, and they aren't exactly cheap, but it beats losing £24 of sensor.


I will try, thanks.


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## dasnider (Dec 9, 2017)

Hi all,
I'm an 'overseas member' (Canadian but living in the US). Since the Libre isn't avail. in the US yet I popped up to Canada and picked one up there. I'm about half-way through my first sensor disc and have a couple of questions for you Libre old-timers:

It worked fine for the first 6 days, then yesterday I started getting frequent ''sensor not available - try in 10 min' messages. I noticed the adhesive had lifted a bit on one side, so taped the sensor down more firmly. It started reading again but all the readings are way low compared to finger sticks - e.g. 4.2 vs 7.1. I suspect the filament came at least partially out and is now not inserted properly. Any suggestions?

How is the filament actually inserted? I'm wondering whether I could remove the sensor and reapply it in a different place, but am concerned about bending the filament and not having it actually go in. (I read on another forum that the installer has an insertion needle that retracts once the filament is in.) Anyone ever tried reinstalling it?

I'm quite active - play a lot of sports and sweat a lot when I do. Could that affect the readings? Any suggestions from other athletic and/or sweaty types?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give,

-Dave


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## Robin (Dec 9, 2017)

Hi Dave, a few suggestions, in no particular order. I always put some tape over the sensor when I first insert it, to prevent lifting. ( I know that's no good to you now!)
It sounds like the filament may have got dislodged, I had one which Abbott reckoned got kinked on entry, I had a lot of error messages and very low readings. Having said that, I once noticed mine had lifted when I was hot and sweaty doing the gardening, and I pushed it down and retaped it, and  it worked fine.
I don't think it would be possible to reinsert, because there is no way of getting the sensor back into the 'Introducer' (as far as I know) and the filament itself is very flimsy and bendable once it's detached from the entry needle, you'd never get it through the skin.
I wouldn't have thought playing sports would affect the readings per se. But what can happen is that you get low readings (or messages that the reader can't pick up a reading) if you're dehydrated. If this might be the case, try drinking something and trying again!


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## HOBIE (Dec 9, 2017)

Its a good devise for reading through the night. The graphs it gives have so much info on it.


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## Bruce Stephens (Dec 9, 2017)

As a minor correction, there's software for Windows and Mac. The Reader itself is fine, but just having the Reader would (IMHO) reduce the value of the system. (Still has value even with the small display.) Might even be worth getting some cheap (used, maybe) Windows machine. Or (if you have a suitable Android phone) try using the app.


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## dasnider (Dec 9, 2017)

Thanks Robin; I had actually put a piece of tape over it a couple of days before it went wonky, but the tape didn't stick very well (except to the sensor itself)! I'll try a better brand of adhesive tape and see if that helps. Didn't know about the hydration, though that makes intuitive sense now that you mention it: I assume that when you're dehydrated your interstitial fluid is reduced.

Just got done playing squash, was getting 'sensor unavailable', so drank a big glass of water. Will see if that fixes it!


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## Matt Cycle (Dec 9, 2017)

Hi Dave and welcome to the forum.  I'm only an occasional Libre user but here's my thoughts.  I've had the sensor not available message on occasions and also more frequently but in general it has then either righted itself or gone on to only work intermittently.  As Robin mentioned if the sensor has lifted then you could tape the sensor more firmly and see if it improves but I think if the filament has come out then it's a goner. 

The filament is inserted by the retracting needle on the applicator.  I don't know if you can but I think it would be next to impossible to try and re-insert the sensor, the adhesive would need replacing and the applicator would need re-assembling if that's even possible.  The sensor's electronics may disable themselves when it's removed.

Dehydration can affect readings and although I don't think Abbott mention it, anecdotal evidence is to try and stay well hydrated, obviously of greater significance when doing sports and exercise.  I have noticed this myself and try and make a point of drinking more water when wearing a sensor particularly when doing exercise.


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## SB2015 (Dec 9, 2017)

I am with others on the hydration, and look on that as another benefit of wearing the sensor as it prompts me to keep myself better hydrated.


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## Radders (Dec 10, 2017)

TheClockworkDodo said:


> Thanks, Lin
> Oh dear, that would mean R would have to set something up on the computer which pretends to be Windows for me, he's not going to be too happy!
> Can't use phone, but I could email Abbott, thanks - I've got their email address.


I use a Mac so Windows not strictly necessary.


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## TheClockworkDodo (Dec 10, 2017)

I have a Linux machine, so neither Windows nor Mac software are any use to me, I'm afraid.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Dec 10, 2017)

@TheClockworkDodo - people do put sensors elsewhere, but there are research data that show that this may give less accurate results (more variable with likelihood of greater errors). Some people on the FB Group still prefer that though, and seem to get on OK so you’d have to try and see I guess. 

For software - I’m not sure if there is anything ready-made in Linux, but Diasend/Glooko also downloads (and saves) Libre results if that gives you another option?

@Robin (and other overtapes) do bear in mind that if you choose to overtape you need to keep the centre hole in the sensor open to the air. The underside of the sensor is engineered with grooves to allow moisture to escape (both from skin and also if any water creeps under when showering etc). Officially I believe covering/overtaping with anything voids the warranty.


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## Robin (Dec 10, 2017)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> @Robin (and other overtapes) do bear in mind that if you choose to overtape you need to keep the centre hole in the sensor open to the air. The underside of the sensor is engineered with grooves to allow moisture to escape (both from skin and also if any water creeps under when showering etc). Officially I believe covering/overtaping with anything voids the warranty.


Thanks, Mike, I'm always careful of the hole! I use two strips of narrow micropore tape, one each side of it, or I snip out a bit in the middle of a wider piece of tape. ( I knew those old embroidery scissors from school would come in useful)


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## TheClockworkDodo (Dec 10, 2017)

Thanks Mike, I'll get R to investigate for me.  Am getting fed up with waiting for hospital CGM, tbh (was waiting to try this before getting Libre, partly because DSN thought a proper CGM would be of more use to me than a Libre) so I might just get myself a Libre.


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## dasnider (Dec 15, 2017)

Here's another newbie question: I just took off my first sensor, and was surprised to see how long the filament was - about 1/4 inch. Since it just measures the interstitial fluid glucose level I assumed it didn't go in deep enough to contact the blood supply, but this would definitely go well into the subcutaneous layer and probably into the muscle. However the filament was somewhat bent, so I'm wondering if it gets inserted at an angle, so it only goes in laterally through the skin. Anyone know how this works? If it's supposed to go straight in then the bending could explain why I started getting wonky results about a week in.

Looking forward to dismantling the sensor this weekend to see what the guts look like... 

-Dave


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## mikeyB (Dec 15, 2017)

I shouldn’t worry, dasnider. It probably gets bent as you remove the sensor. Just make sure you don’t sleep with your weight on the sensor, because that can cause interruption in readings. So position it so that won’t happen.

It’s quite tricky to dismantle, by the way, and utterly boring when you do. Sorry for the spoiler

I should add, if the sensor needle went into muscle, you’d know about it. It would hurt.


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## dasnider (Dec 16, 2017)

Thanks Mike. Still confused about how the sensor could go straight in and still only be in contact with IF. Even my skin isn't a quarter-inch thick (though my wife might disagree), and if the sensor went straight in I think it probably would go into the muscle, or at least deep into the blood supply. 

The Abbot website says the sensor is inserted "just under the skin", which makes it sound like it must go in at an angle or even laterally...  No big deal either way, mainly just trying to understand how it inserts so I can try to mitigate the effects of exercise, accidental knocks, etc., and know what to try if it starts registering wonky again. 

It was fun taking it apart, and I now have some cool little parts skittering around my kitchen table. Tempted to replace the little hearing aid battery, glue it back together and then try to reinstall it. (Joke!)

-Dave


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## TheClockworkDodo (Mar 9, 2018)

Does anyone know how a Libre would react to hot water bottles?!

My body doesn't regulate temperature properly (so I don't warm up or cool down naturally, I have to rely on things like hwbs to do it for me).  When it's really cold I go to bed with 4 hwbs and often stick one under each arm, so it would be right next to the sensor.


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## mikeyB (Mar 9, 2018)

Interesting question Juliet. The reader doesn’t like getting very hot, and the sensors should be stored between 5 and 30C, though once applied that temperature is easily exceeded, particularly in bed or a bath, without much problem. I suspect the sensor will tolerate any temperature that you can. 

A theoretical point is that to warm yourself up, a hwb would be more efficient by the wrist rather than in an oxter because the blood vessels are much nearer the surface to convey heat round the body. As far as legs are concerned, some nice fat juicy blood vessels lie at the top of the leg in the groin, so a hot water bottle there would warm up the legs and the liver. 

But the real answer is to try it. It will tell you if it’s too warm.

Or too cold, but if you’re lower than 5C, it’s just a hi-tech diagnosis of death


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## TheClockworkDodo (Mar 9, 2018)

Thanks, Mike, that sounds hopeful.

With the bottles under my upper arms, I bend up my lower arms over them so the hwbs are next to my wrists and hands, lower and upper arms, and sides.  The other ones go on my feet and either my abdomen or my knees, whichever feels colder at the time.  Being female I tend to have cold extremities!



mikeyB said:


> Or too cold, but if you’re lower than 5C, it’s just a hi-tech diagnosis of death


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## TheClockworkDodo (Aug 20, 2018)

I have another temperature-related question.  How does everyone store spare sensors in hot weather?  The packaging says under 25c and our house has been going well over that for most of this summer.  Even with an extra large Frio wallet I don't have space for the boxed sensor.  Should I take it out of the box and put it in the Frio, put the box in the fridge, or just put it in the coolest room we have and hope the weather doesn't get hot again?!


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## Radders (Aug 20, 2018)

TheClockworkDodo said:


> I have another temperature-related question.  How does everyone store spare sensors in hot weather?  The packaging says under 25c and our house has been going well over that for most of this summer.  Even with an extra large Frio wallet I don't have space for the boxed sensor.  Should I take it out of the box and put it in the Frio, put the box in the fridge, or just put it in the coolest room we have and hope the weather doesn't get hot again?!


It’s never occurred to me to worry about it as They aren’t stored for long and the temperature in my wardrobe is probably only above 25 by a very small margin for a short space of time. I reason that while in use the sensors must be ok at much higher temperatures. I think if I was buying the sensors in bulk I might need to think about it though. I think your suggestion of putting it in the coolest room is sensible.


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## Bruce Stephens (Aug 20, 2018)

TheClockworkDodo said:


> The packaging says under 25c and our house has been going well over that for most of this summer.



I've been assuming they'll probably be fine even at a bit over 30C so I've not done anything special with them (also I never have more than a couple). I guess putting them somewhere cooler makes sense, though.


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## HOBIE (Aug 20, 2018)

Like my Libre


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## TheClockworkDodo (Aug 27, 2018)

Thanks Radders and Bruce for the reassurance about storing sensors.  Now the weather has changed it doesn't matter anyway, but last month the coolest room in my house was regularly going over 28c so there wouldn't have been anywhere to keep the sensors under 25.

I have managed to read the instructions (a huge effort for me!) and I now have two more questions, and then I think I can start using the thing! 

Firstly, can anyone tell me what happens if you don't scan for over 8 hours?  If I scan when I go to bed, sleep for 9 hours, and scan again as soon as I wake up, will I lose the first hour of data, the last hour of data, or the whole 9 hours' worth?  Usually I will be able to scan within the 8 hours, or get R to do it for me when he leaves for work (several hours before I'd expect to wake up normally), but I do sometimes sleep for more than 8 hours, and sometimes when I wake up I can't move at all for a while, so I might not be able to pick up the reader to scan.

Secondly, can anyone tell me how the phone app. works in terms of sharing the data with the reader?  I know @mikeyB and @everydayupsanddowns were talking about this on thread about apps, so I'm hoping one of you might be able to help, or someone else who has the app.  I don't have a smartphone, but R does, and we wondered whether we would be able to scan with both, so that he could use his phone to download the data for me at the end of the fortnight.  I know the sensor needs to be started with the reader and then scanned with the phone app within the first hour, and that would be fine, but I don't know whether we'd need to scan with both the reader and with the phone at least every 8 hours, or whether we can scan with either and they will share the information with each other.  R is away at work (with his phone) for 10 hours or more some days so we couldn't scan with both the reader and with the phone at least every 8 hours.


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## Sally71 (Aug 27, 2018)

The sensor only holds 8 hours worth of data, so if you only scan after 9 hours you will get the most recent 8 hours and lose the one before that.  So your graph will have a gap in it.

With the app, when you initialise the sensor you must do so with the actual reader first, and then scan it with your phone anytime during the 60mins startup phase, then you will be able to use either device. If you initialise it with the phone first then the reader won't be able to read it, it will say sensor is in use with another device. And if you wait until after the initial 60 mins with the phone I think you'll get the same problem.  After that it doesn't really matter which device you use, except remember that the sensor can only download the last 8 hours of data, so if you want the complete information on both devices then you need to scan both of them at least every 8 hours (although not necessarily at the same time of course, you'll just get the most recent 8 hours on either device whenever you scan it). Hope that makes sense!


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## TheClockworkDodo (Aug 27, 2018)

Thanks Sally - we thought that would probably be the case about the 8 hours data, that I'd lose the first one, just wanted to make sure I wouldn't lose the whole lot.  Hopefully it won't happen very often that I sleep for 9 hours and can't scan, but it may happen occasionally.

I don't think I was clear enough about what I was asking about using the app - we'd worked out how to start the reader and the phone app going, but we couldn't work out whether the reader and the app can communicate with each other.  Can I move the information I've got on the reader onto the phone (once we've got the app set up), or can I only get it onto the phone by scanning the sensor with the phone?


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## Bruce Stephens (Aug 27, 2018)

TheClockworkDodo said:


> I don't think I was clear enough about what I was asking about using the app - we'd worked out how to start the reader and the phone app going, but we couldn't work out whether the reader and the app can communicate with each other.



According to one of the FAQs (which I can't link to directly, annoyingly), they don't communicate. 
See "Can I use my FreeStyle Libre reader and FreeStyle LibreLink app with the same sensor?" in https://www.freestylelibre.co.uk/libre/help/faqs.html

Remember that the FreeStyle LibreLink app and FreeStyle Libre readers do not share data with each other. For example, if you switch between your reader and the app, you may see gaps in your glucose data, which will affect the reports available through the reader, the FreeStyle LibreLink app, and LibreView. It is important to continue scanning your sensor with either the app or the reader at least once every eight hours so you and your healthcare professional can get a complete picture of your glucose trends and patterns.​


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## Sally71 (Aug 27, 2018)

No as far as I'm aware there is no way of transferring data from one device to the other, you can only scan the sensor with them.


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## TheClockworkDodo (Aug 27, 2018)

That's a shame - thank you both for the information though.  Looks as though I won't be able to download the info then, unless R takes my reader into work with him (so he can access a windows machine) at the end of the fortnight.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Aug 28, 2018)

TheClockworkDodo said:


> That's a shame - thank you both for the information though.  Looks as though I won't be able to download the info then, unless R takes my reader into work with him (so he can access a windows machine) at the end of the fortnight.



As others have said, there isn's a way of sharing the data from reader to Smartphone, though as you know you can use them simultaneously by scanning both.

I *think* there are also Nightscout implementations for Libre (though these may be a bit fiddly and require some extra components??) which would allow a single stream of Libre data to be viewed by more than one person.

I think there's also the Libre LinkUp app which shares LibreLink scans with another (trusted) phone eg for partner or parent. So you could achieve what you are looking for by buying a fairly cheap Android phone and using that rather than the reader I think?


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## khskel (Aug 28, 2018)

Have you tried running the libre pc programme on Linux using wine?


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## TheClockworkDodo (Aug 28, 2018)

Thanks Mike and Khskel for the ideas - I will show your posts to R because I don't really understand them!  I don't really want another phone myself - I don't like smart tech and in any case I only use a mobile very occasionally for phonecalls to/from R so it would be a waste buying it just for this.  I doubt I'll use the Libre all the time unless my hypo unawareness gets a lot worse and/or I get the sensors on prescription, so it wouldn't be a big problem for him to take the reader into work to download the data.  It would be easier if he could do it on our Linux machine though.


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## TheClockworkDodo (Aug 29, 2018)

@khskel - R says he's had problems with wine in the past and found that some things didn't work with it - but that was about 15 years ago, so it may well have improved!  Do you use it?


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## HOBIE (Aug 29, 2018)

A good bit of info for a good product


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## khskel (Aug 29, 2018)

TheClockworkDodo said:


> @khskel - R says he's had problems with wine in the past and found that some things didn't work with it - but that was about 15 years ago, so it may well have improved!  Do you use it?


I haven't got a Linux box up and running at the moment that would be capable of running it.


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## TheClockworkDodo (Aug 29, 2018)

Ah well, never mind - he'll have a go with it and see if it's got any better!


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## TheClockworkDodo (Aug 29, 2018)

Just a thought - I don't need to carry the Libre reader around with me everywhere like I did the CGM reader, do I?  I had to keep the CGM reader in the same room with me at all times so it didn't lose contact with the transmitter, but I'm assuming as the Libre just has a sensor and not a transmitter I don't have to take the reader with me everywhere - is that right?


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## Bruce Stephens (Aug 30, 2018)

TheClockworkDodo said:


> Just a thought - I don't need to carry the Libre reader around with me everywhere like I did the CGM reader, do I?



You need it every 8 hours (to get all the readings), and you need it (or a phone with the app) to get readings, presuming you don't want just to collect data over a period (but also to use the readings in real time). I'll note that the reader is really quite small (and doubles as a glucometer with suitable strips).


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## Radders (Aug 30, 2018)

Bruce Stephens said:


> You need it every 8 hours (to get all the readings), and you need it (or a phone with the app) to get readings, presuming you don't want just to collect data over a period (but also to use the readings in real time). I'll note that the reader is really quite small (and doubles as a glucometer with suitable strips).


I keep my reader in my pocket. Unlike a meter since you don’t need strips or a pricker I find it’s very easy to keep it on me.


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## TheClockworkDodo (Aug 30, 2018)

Thank you both, but I'm still not sure whether I actually have to carry it about with me all the time?  I realise I need to use it to scan at least every 8 hours, what I don't know is whether I can leave it in one room while I go into another room (with the CGM I had to stay within a few feet of it at all times)?  Do I have to take the reader with me whenever I go to the loo, or whenever I have a bath, or stay in the same room with it whenever it's charging?  I had to do this with the CGM and it was a real pain!  I know the reader's small, but my pockets are overflowing already, so I want to be able to keep it in my bag and not have to cart it about the house with me.


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## Bruce Stephens (Aug 30, 2018)

TheClockworkDodo said:


> Do I have to take the reader with me whenever I go to the loo, or whenever I have a bath, or stay in the same room with it whenever it's charging?



Sorry for not being clearer! The sensor has its own electronics and keeps its own 8 hour records. You can certainly leave the reader in a different room (or at home, if you really don't want to use it when you're out) and everything will work fine.

When I'm out dancing (I like to dance social tango) sometimes I keep the reader in my pocket, but usually I leave it in my bag or on the table so I can check between tandas.


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## TheClockworkDodo (Aug 30, 2018)

Thanks Bruce  I hoped that was the answer, just wanted to be sure before I initialise my first sensor!  I always take my bag when I go out (unless I'm just going to the post box or something like that), so that's not a problem, but it was an awful nuisance carrying the CGM around the house all the time, and when I charged it I had to plug it into an extra long extension lead so I wasn't stuck in one room with it!


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## Bruce Stephens (Aug 30, 2018)

The sensors presumably contain their own (non-rechargeable) battery, micro controller, etc. (And presumably the battery is partly why they have an expiry date of less than a year or so.) I find the reader lasts for quite a while (weeks rather than days) between charging. The reader stitches together readings for up to 90 days (so across a number of sensors), so you don't necessarily need to print out the graphs each 2 weeks (the computer software defaults to 2 weeks, I think, but you can select other periods).
(Different sensors can vary a little, whether because of individual variation or because of placement, so one can read too much into details of the graphs, just as believing individual values as accurate is usually a mistake.)

(Minor update: The manual says the sensor has a silver oxide battery.)


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## TheClockworkDodo (Aug 30, 2018)

Bruce Stephens said:


> The reader stitches together readings for up to 90 days (so across a number of sensors), so you don't necessarily need to print out the graphs each 2 weeks (the computer software defaults to 2 weeks, I think, but you can select other periods).


That's very useful to know, thank you - I'd assumed we'd need to print out the info (if I wanted a print-out) every fortnight, but if we don't that means R can have a go with wine on our Linux machine over the weekend after my first sensor finishes, and if he can't get the software to work with wine he can take the reader into work the following week.


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## TheClockworkDodo (Nov 4, 2018)

I have a couple more questions about the Libre, hoping someone will be able to answer ...

Firstly, how do you dispose of all the bits which come with your sensor?  Sensor itself in sharps bin, presumably?  Can the applicator go in the plastic recycling or does it have non-plastic bits?  What about the other packaging which the sensor comes in?

Secondly, does anyone now use the Libre reader as your regular meter, having also used a different meter while using the Libre?  Does using the Libre reader as a meter improve the accuracy of the sensor (eg if your sensor says you're 2.5 and not going up, but finger test readings told you that actually a few minutes ago you were 4.5 and now you're 5, does the Libre work out that the sensor is getting it wrong and adjust itself if you use the Libre's own meter to test your blood sugar)?


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## khskel (Nov 5, 2018)

I use the libre reader as my regular meter and as far as I know it has no effect on the scanner accuracy. I've often thought that there should be a calibration function available.

The applicator has a metal spring inside it so probably shouldn't go in the plastic recycling.


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## Northerner (Nov 5, 2018)

When I have them most of the bits go in the general waste as they don't appear to have been designed very well for recycling  I think the only bit I put in recycling is the plastic top that comes off the applicator, plus all the various bits of paper/cardboard etc.


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## mikeyB (Nov 5, 2018)

I’m the same as Northie. The sensor doesn’t need to go in the sharps bin, there’s nothing sharp on it. General waste for me.


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## Bruce Stephens (Nov 5, 2018)

The Reader has a bolus calculator (only available when you use test strips) so that's a possible advantage. Also, readings from test strips appear on the graph (at least when viewed on a computer). On the negative side the test strips are more expensive than many, so there's a decent chance your surgery won't want to prescribe them.


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## TheClockworkDodo (Nov 5, 2018)

Thank you all for the info  

Without the callibration function it seems that the Libre is not going to be that useful for me as the two sensors I've had have been so far out from my actual readings (one far too high, the other far too low) that I ended up doing more rather than fewer finger tests while I was using them.  The graphs have been interesting, and it's been a bit of an eye-opener to see how much I spike as well as plummet, but there is very little in the way of patterns to them from day to day (even though I'm eating the same or similar things each day), so unless I can work out how to change the way I eat to stop the random spikes and plummets there seems little point in accumulating more graphs.  I'll get sensors again when I'm doing something different or to see if I get different graphs at different seasons, I think, rather than using them all the time (also I don't think I could wear sensors all the time as my arms are too skinny, I'd very soon run out of places to stick them!).

Shame about the packaging not being easily recyclable, as there's so much of it.  I can just imagine what Copepod would be saying about it


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## Radders (Nov 6, 2018)

TheClockworkDodo said:


> Thank you all for the info
> 
> Without the callibration function it seems that the Libre is not going to be that useful for me as the two sensors I've had have been so far out from my actual readings (one far too high, the other far too low) that I ended up doing more rather than fewer finger tests while I was using them.  The graphs have been interesting, and it's been a bit of an eye-opener to see how much I spike as well as plummet, but there is very little in the way of patterns to them from day to day (even though I'm eating the same or similar things each day), so unless I can work out how to change the way I eat to stop the random spikes and plummets there seems little point in accumulating more graphs.  I'll get sensors again when I'm doing something different or to see if I get different graphs at different seasons, I think, rather than using them all the time (also I don't think I could wear sensors all the time as my arms are too skinny, I'd very soon run out of places to stick them!).
> 
> Shame about the packaging not being easily recyclable, as there's so much of it.  I can just imagine what Copepod would be saying about it


If the sensors are way out from blood test readings they may be faulty. I have had two that I’ve complained about. On the phone they asked me for comparative readings from a strip and as they were out on three separate occasions, they sent me replacements. 

It’s not really a problem finding a spot for them as if you use alternate arms they’ve had a two week break between use. My arms are quite thin but I’ve not experienced any problems.


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## TheClockworkDodo (Nov 6, 2018)

Thanks, Radders, that's worth bearing in mind.  Mine weren't so much way out as consistently about 2mmol/l higher in one case and lower in the other.

I don't think I could stick one on my right arm as I need to sleep on it!  I struggled to find places on my left arm where the arm was wider than the applicator, as I'm very lacking in arm muscle.


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## Andy12345 (Nov 6, 2018)

Hi, may i ask, if you have been using the reader handset thing and i want to switch to using my phone, i assume i cant transfer old results to phone?

Edit: or even better can i use reader and phone for same sensor?


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## khskel (Nov 6, 2018)

Andy12345 said:


> Hi, may i ask, if you have been using the reader handset thing and i want to switch to using my phone, i assume i cant transfer old results to phone?
> 
> Edit: or even better can i use reader and phone for same sensor?


You can use reader and phone for the same sensor but you must activate with the reader.

You can't transfer results to the phone app but if you download to a pc you should be able to transfer the resulting PDF to your phone.


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## Andy12345 (Nov 6, 2018)

khskel said:


> You can use reader and phone for the same sensor but you must activate with the reader.
> 
> You can't transfer results to the phone app but if you download to a pc you should be able to transfer the resulting PDF to your phone.


So i zap sensor to activate with reader, then zapp with phone during the first 60 minutes and they both work?

I tend to use the reader stats as i dont have a pc, i do have a imac but struggled finding software on that

Thankyou


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## khskel (Nov 6, 2018)

Andy12345 said:


> So i zap sensor to activate with reader, then zapp with phone during the first 60 minutes and they both work?
> 
> I tend to use the reader stats as i dont have a pc, i do have a imac but struggled finding software on that
> 
> Thankyou


Correctamundo


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## Andy12345 (Nov 6, 2018)

khskel said:


> Correctamundo


Muchas gracias


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## khskel (Nov 6, 2018)

Andy12345 said:


> Muchas gracias


De nada


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## Amity Island (Nov 8, 2018)

TheClockworkDodo said:


> I know there have been several threads about Libres, but I thought it would be useful to have a general thread for questions for Libre users from those of us who are thinking of getting one, or have recently got one - please feel free to chip in with different questions!
> 
> My first one is - do you need Windows to run the software?!  I have a Linux machine and, what with R being an internet security specialist, we wouldn't have Windows in the house (that sounds a bit funny, but you know what I mean ).  Only just thought of it when I realised that my spare meter - which I don't normally use, but is much fancier than my normal meter - has software I'm not using because it requires Windows or a Mac.
> 
> I also wondered about alcohol wipes - on other threads people have mentioned using alcohol wipes before applying sensors.  I'm allergic to alcohol - would I be able to use an alternative (I have alcohol-free, scent-free handwipes if they would do)?  Are they just to clean the skin, or what?


This instructional video from a diabetic on the libre is well worth a watch.


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## TheClockworkDodo (Dec 22, 2018)

Thanks, AI - I've been AWOL for a bit so only just seen this, will have a look when I have a minute!


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## leonS (Dec 23, 2018)

I don't have micro$oft either (sounds better than a home with no windows). I use Linux. Anyone tried to use use Linux with Vine for this software?


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## evecainx (Feb 8, 2019)

Hi all, not sure whether anybody has asked this question yet but, is it better buying the freestyle libre rather than seeing if I can get it off my DN? I'm not quite sure what would make me eligible to get one if anybody could fill me in on that? my fingers are in agony, finally got on board with my health and checking my bloods, doing my needle etc. but I've finally realised why I have doing my blood sugars so much! They bleeding kill!!! Thanks in advance!


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## Bruce Stephens (Feb 9, 2019)

evecainx said:


> is it better buying the freestyle libre rather than seeing if I can get it off my DN? I'm not quite sure what would make me eligible to get one if anybody could fill me in on that?



It's cheaper if you can get it prescribed, and at present new customers can't buy it (at least from Abbott). So try and get it from your DSN, and see what they say.

The criteria are (at least before April) regional things, so it'll depend on your CCG. The forthcoming criteria are given https://www.diabetes.org.uk/about_us/news/flash-on-nhs. It's likely your local CCG will currently have similar ones (maybe a little more strict).


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## TheClockworkDodo (Feb 9, 2019)

Hope you can get a Libre on the NHS, @evecainx - in the meanwhile though, I'm wondering why your fingers are hurting so much   I usually test 8-10 times a day, sometimes more, and mine don't hurt at all.  Are you testing a lot more than that?

If not, maybe your lancing device is turned up too high - you might be able to turn it down (I use it on 2 most of the time - that's intended for children, but my fingers would hurt a lot too if I used it on 3 or 4).

And are you only testing on the sides of your fingers (alongside, but not too close to, the sides of your nails), not in the pads?  It will hurt a lot more if you're spiking the pads, where there are nerve endings, rather than the sides.  It will also hurt more if you keep re-using the same fingers - I alternate the sides of all of mine, so I've got 20 to circulate through.


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## SB2015 (Feb 9, 2019)

If fingers get a bit sore you can also you use the pad on the palm at the base of your thumb, still following all the advice about depth, and changing your needle that @TheClockworkDodo has given you.


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## Amity Island (Feb 9, 2019)

evecainx said:


> Hi all, not sure whether anybody has asked this question yet but, is it better buying the freestyle libre rather than seeing if I can get it off my DN? I'm not quite sure what would make me eligible to get one if anybody could fill me in on that? my fingers are in agony, finally got on board with my health and checking my bloods, doing my needle etc. but I've finally realised why I have doing my blood sugars so much! They bleeding kill!!! Thanks in advance!


Regarding your fingers hurting, I have noticed that the old finger pricking devices I got with my accu-chek test meter really hurt and are quite aggressive, however I got a new meter recently and I've noticed they have changed the mechanism in the finger pricking device, it is more gentle and doesn't cause as much pain even when testing 8 times a day.


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## mikeyB (Feb 9, 2019)

My fingers were so soft from using the Libre, that when the supply problem arose when I needed to fingerpick, I found that setting the finger pricker to 1 produced a more than adequate sample and was almost painless. I was using a new lancet, mind which was a novel experience, but it lasted the ten day gap painlessly, testing up to six times a day.


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## Bruce Stephens (Feb 9, 2019)

mikeyB said:


> My fingers were so soft from using the Libre, that when the supply problem arose when I needed to fingerpick, I found that setting the finger pricker to 1 produced a more than adequate sample and was almost painless. I was using a new lancet, mind which was a novel experience, but it lasted the ten day gap painlessly, testing up to six times a day.



I found the same (for just 4 days): no real problems, and I was testing more like 10 times a day. It's worth fiddling with the lancet device to make sure it's at the minimum depth that works, and (of course) wash with hot water (and dry) before trying to get a sample. (Now and again I've had to try and measure with cold hands, and that's just not fun.)

I imagine different lancing devices are a bit different, so maybe trying a different one would help. (I haven't really bothered because I find the one I'm using is fine. I remember not using a device at all (so just a sharp bit of metal, basically) and that was so horribly worse than the modern lancing devices.)


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## evecainx (Feb 21, 2019)

TheClockworkDodo said:


> Hope you can get a Libre on the NHS, @evecainx - in the meanwhile though, I'm wondering why your fingers are hurting so much   I usually test 8-10 times a day, sometimes more, and mine don't hurt at all.  Are you testing a lot more than that?
> 
> If not, maybe your lancing device is turned up too high - you might be able to turn it down (I use it on 2 most of the time - that's intended for children, but my fingers would hurt a lot too if I used it on 3 or 4).
> 
> And are you only testing on the sides of your fingers (alongside, but not too close to, the sides of your nails), not in the pads?  It will hurt a lot more if you're spiking the pads, where there are nerve endings, rather than the sides.  It will also hurt more if you keep re-using the same fingers - I alternate the sides of all of mine, so I've got 20 to circulate through.


Hi, thank you for the advice, my device is 3.5, any lower wouldnt penetrate my skin too tough! And theyre all on the sides of my fingers of course, although i have been testing a bit more than 8 times a day as my blood sugars have been dropping recently, hopefully my fingers will get used to it again, thank you though!


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