# My Diet to deal with reversal of Type 2



## wallycorker

This post describes the diet that I've adopted over the last eighteen months to successfully deal with my non-insulin dependent Type 2 diabetes which is still being treated with metformin.

I'm a sixty-six-years old non-insulin dependent Type 2 on metformin only. I was diagnosed over nine years ago in the very early stages with a fasting level just over 7 and HbA1c of only 5.7%. My situation slowly progressed - i.e. deteriorated - for eight years by following the "do not test" and "eat plenty of starchy carbohydrate" advice usually given to Type 2s. Eventually, my HbA1c reached 9.4% and my GP prescribed metformin - and then very soon after doubled the dosage. 

At that stage and against my doctor’s advice, I started to test and by doing that soon came to understand the effect that different foods had on my blood glucose levels. By using that information and gradually changing my diet over the last eighteen months, I have fully reversed my Type 2 diabetic situation. Today, all my numbers are better than they were at diagnosis - in most of the cases by a massive amount. If I went to the doctor today then by the most-commonly-used diagnostic tests - fasting blood glucose levels or HbA1c - they would say that I did not have diabetes.

Basically, the main thing that I've done is to cut out almost all the starchy carbohydrates - e.g. cereals, bread, potatoes mainly but I'm also very careful with rice and pasta too. In my opinion this has been by far and away the main reason for my dramatic improvement in blood glucose levels. 

My HbA1c has dropped from a high of 9.4% to in the 5s the last five tests - and a lowest-ever of 5.1% last time. I'm hoping to take it below 5 very soon.

I have described below the diet that I've basically settled down to eating. This diet wasn't adopted overnight and isn't something that I've read about. My current diet developed slowly by testing - to see what effect different foods had on my blood glucose levels - and then slowly adjusting my diet accordingly. My current typical eating and drinking patterns are as follows: 

*Breakfast*

Usually grilled (but sometimes fried) bacon, tomatoes and mushrooms - sometimes an egg too.

- Or, mushroom, bacon, cheese omelette.

- Or, if I ever eat cereals instead then it's always Lizi's granola (low-GI nut-based) these days. I eat no other kind of cereal whatsoever these days – not even porridge.

- Or, occasionally, low-fat natural yoghurt with berry fruits instead.

*I never eat bread or any other cereals except Lizi's granola at breakfast – and certainly no porridge.*


*Lunch*

Almost always meat (usually ham or chicken) or fish or low-fat cottage cheese with a big salad (lettuce, spring onions, peppers, radishes, celery, cucumber, cherry tomatoes, with a few grapes or chopped apple) - with a small amount of linseed/flax seeds added - plus a dressing made with olive oil and apple cider vinegar.

*No bread or potatoes – except very occasionally and – if I do - only a very small amount.*

If I'm in a pub situation then I usually eat beef or gammon steak with vegetables - sometimes with a few chips. Salads are another very good option too when eating out.

*Evening Meal*

Meat (usually chicken) or fish with various vegetables - sometimes as a stew type meal.

Sometimes I eat low-GI type brown rice or spelt or pulse pasta or something similar.

I’ve recently started to substitute cauliflower for potatoes to make such things as cauli-mash cottage pie, or cauli-rice type dishes. I’ve found that such dishes give very good post-meal blood-glucose readings. Cauliflower is a great substitute for potatoes.

*Never any bread or potatoes - or anything like pizza, naan bread, chapattis or suchlike even if I'm in a restaurant - except very occasionally.  If I do eat any of these foods it would only be a very small amount – a piece.*

*Snacks*

I eat fruit throughout the day and every day - loads of it - as well-spaced-out snacks - never as part of another meal apart from where shown above - I pick the smallest pieces of fruit that I can find and eat all the following every day usually sometimes more than one of each (but never at the same time) - apples, pears, satsumas, plums frequently - and occasionally, bananas, kiwis, peaches or grapes. I fill my pockets with fruit whenever I leave the house and eat it as I move about. However, a word of warning about fruit, quite a lot of people with diabetes tell me that fruit causes their blood glucose to rise to high levels so, if eating fruit, people need to test to establish what it does to their levels. 

The rest of the time, I nibble at small portions of: 

A small amount (around 20g) of mixed nuts and dried fruit - usually every day.

Low-fat yoghurts - most popular Muller Light but others too.

Low-fat cheese - with one or two oatcakes or Ryvita Thins.

Tesco Light cottage cheese with pineapple.

Oily fish - rich in omega-3 types - sardines, mackerels etc.

Pickles - beetroot, cucumber, onions, red cabbage etc.

Cherry tomatoes

Cold vegetables if there are any in the fridge.

Ice cream is just about my only weakness and very occasionally, I eat an ice cream cone. I stress very occasionally.

*In general, I never eat packets of crisps, buns, biscuits, sweets, chocolate, cake and suchlike on a regular basis. On vary rare occasions indeed, I might eat one biscuit or one small piece of chocolate – I stress this would be on very rare occasions indeed. I might have a few crisps or small piece of cake or bun in a buffet situation.*

*Alcohol*

I used to drink a lot of alcohol but these days drink very little (about five units a week and certainly less than ten) - mainly the odd glass of red wine or sometimes a small whisky. Very rarely, I will have a little more red wine on a special occasion when out for the evening and I'm not driving. These days, I rarely ever drink alcohol in the house even though my wife and family do. I must say, it wasn't always like that!

*Other Drinks*

Various teas (spiced, earl gray, redbush etc, etc) and coffee (mainly decaffeinated but not always) all black with a sweetener - I try to vary the drinks depending on the time of day. 

If I ever do use milk - e.g. with Lizi's granola or in drinks - it is always the 0.75% or 1% fat milk types.

I drink sparkling bottled water or just plain old simple tap water by the pint with my evening meal.

Very, very occasionally these days I might drink a Tango Zero or sometimes Tesco’s diet ginger beer.

*I never drink fruit juice or non-Zero drinks and only very rarely any beer or lager these days*

*Supplements*

I’ve never been a person for taking supplements but these days I’ve started to use the following on a daily basis:

- a multivitamin tablet once per day
- an omega-3 one capsule once per day
- an apple cider vinegar tablet last thing at night
- Occasional, use of cinnamon (sprinkling on foods, in teas etc)

*Weight Loss & Exercise*

By the way, I'm still calorie counting because I still want to lose more than the 5 stone that I've lost already. I'm intent to take my BMI to below 25 - i.e. into the normal weight band - I'm almost at that stage with a BMI of around 28 - down from BMI 40. I might take it as low as a BMI of 22.5 - i.e. my supposed "ideal weight" as defined by the health people. These days I'm eating around 1,300 to 1,500 calories per day most days and occasionally (about once a week just a little more). Despite that, I never feel hungry! 

I don't put very much of my improvement in blood glucose readings - if any at all - down to my loss in weight. Why not? Quite simply because the lowering of blood glucose levels came about immediately that I started to change my diet - i.e. in days or weeks. I say this because I found that I didn't have to wait until I'd lost a lot of weight before I got my improvement and that may help to motivate others who find losing weight to be difficult. In my opinion and in my case, I consider that it was the dietary change that was most important - i.e. mainly the cutting back dramatically on my starchy carbohydrate intake which led to my improvement.

In addition, I do very little exercise and when I do it's nothing other than just ordinary walking - just a very occasional two to three mile easy walking – and nothing severe. I really ought to try to do much more exercise for my general health and well-being. The effect of exercise on lowering blood glucose levels is something that I’m trying to test out and experimenting with to try to establish how effective this might be in improving my control still further.

I think that covers just about everything. I hope that other people with non-insulin dependent Type 2 diabetes might find this detailed summary of my current eating habits useful and that my experience might be helpful to them in dealing with getting control of their own Type 2 situations. 

If anyone has any further questions then feel free to get in touch.

Best wishes – John


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## am64

thank you for that john...it will certainly help x


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## choccy72

Thank you John for the detailed plan it's given me some good ideas. I too have to get my BMI down and would be interested to know how you feel eating 1300-1500 calories and exercising? What exercise do you find best in conjunction with your balanced diet?

In the past i have calorie counted when attempting to lose weight but its harder when sometimes awake for 24 hours doing nightshifts. Hunger does set in.


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## wallycorker

Hi again Ness,

I'm quite OK eating 1,300 to 1,500 calories per day. I can't say that I ever feel hungry. Certainly, it's not difficult for me and as expected my weight keeps dropping.

I do very little exercise - just the very occasional 2 to 3 mile walk - and that has been the same more or less throughout my entire improvement programme. I really ought to try to do more if only for my general well being!

I'm retired now and certainly never worked shifts on a regular basis. Given what you say that you sometimes feel hungry then ensure that you are eating snacks that won't be shoving your blood glucose levels too high. I find fruit suits me just fine in that respect because it does hardly anything to my blood glucose levels. However, that isn't the same for everyone so take care with that too. That's why I say that it's impotant to test to see what different foods do to your blood glucose levels.

Best wishes - John


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## wakman

Thank you i have this post intersting. Some good points

Thanks


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## choccy72

Cheers John, i'm due to see the GP again wednesday so will try and insist on a monitor.

P.s...congratulations on all your weight loss and latest BMI.


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## rhall92380

Thanks for the post John. Glad its working for you. Its given me some ideas how to reduce my carbs should I need to.

Richard


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## wallycorker

Thanks am64, choccy72, wakman and rhall92380 - and to Caroline too!

Since a few people seem to be finding this posting interesting, I've updated it a bit to include a few additional foods that I've remembered and some comments regarding weight and exercise too.

John


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## rachelha

John - I am really impressed with your will power sticking to this diet.


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## wallycorker

Hi again Rachelha, 

Why do you say that? I certainly don't feel deprived. I have as much meat, fish cheese and yoghurt as I want - also as much fruit and vegetables as I want. Moreover, I think that I could drink more alcohol too if that is what I wanted to do.

As I try to explain in my post, I see the diet to control my blood glucose levels and the diet to lose weight as two totally separate things. I could eat far more of the above foods without it adversley affecting my blood glucose levels.

However, I do agree that there is a very strong motivational and will power aspect too. I want to live a long healthy life and without developing any of the quite nasty complications that can come the way of people with diabetes - e.g. blindness, amputations, kidney failure & dialysis, heart disease etc just to name a few. Thinking about such complications does help me to focus on what I need to do to keep clear of them!

Also, all of the quite mild diabetic symptoms that I had suffered previously have disappeared altogether since I lowered my blood glucose levels. Maybe I should have added that to the original post because it is not insignificant.

Very best wishes - John


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## LisaLQ

Do you not find it verging slightly on Atkins?  When I tried Atkins for weight loss a few years ago, I felt so poorly and tired all the time.

Is it really a reversal, or just controlling the symptoms?  I know that's what we need to do to avoid complications, but if you ate what a non-diabetic ate, you'd still get a high glucose reading.  A reversal would mean your body acting normally when you ate normal foods.  You're definitely in control though - just nothing's been reversed, just controlled.

Inspiring stuff though!


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## wallycorker

Hi LisaQ,

I certainly don't feel poorly or tired - I feel just great!

I don't really know what Atkins is because I've never read about that diet or any other diet of that type for that matter. When I talk about diet, I don't mean diet in that sense - I mean changing my diet to cut down on the foods that send my blood glucose levels high. The separate diet that I use to lose weight  is quite straightforward old-fashioned calorie counting. 

However, what I do know is that Atkins is a low-carbohydrate diet and I don't really fit into that category. I still eat quite a lot of carbohydrate every day - between 100g and 200g - but almost all of it as fruit and vegetables with very little as starchy carbohydrate - i.e. about 40 to 50% of my calories as carbohydrates which is quite normal as I understand things. Many people that have taken excellent control of their blood glucose levels would tell me that I still eat too much carbohydrate.

It certainly is a reversal of where I started from in every respect - blood glucose levels, cholesterol, blood pressure etc - also, all the minor diabetic symptoms that I'd started to experience have disappeared altogether. Moreover, as I say in my post, if I went to see the medical people today by the usual methods they would say that I'm not diabetic unless I told them otherwise. Personally, I'd still call that a reversal - not a cure but certainly a reversal. 

Certainly, I do not have any concern regarding the development of diabetic complications.

Best wishes - John


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## Michael Hutch

*Nice work*

May mother got diagnosed 25 years ago with T2.
Insulin started 10 years after diagnosis.
I have tried to steer her to do exactly what you have described- more less, inclusive of exercise.
Even though she also has high blood pressure (for about 30 years) she is complication free - after 25 years with diabetes!

I salute you and her!
One thing she has been particularly good at is 'portion control', which has been her saving grace.  But let me add here that 'chocolates and sweets' are still her achilles' heel.  But remember, she is good at PORTION CONTROL !!!!!

Bravo.  michael hutch


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## wallycorker

Great to hear that Michael - I'm always so pleased to read about such success stories of people dealing with diabetes. 

I know another Type 2, through one of these diabetes forums, who has maintained good control through diet for 40 years and he is complication free too. One of the first things they tell people with diabetes is that it is progressive - i.e. that you can't stop it getting worse with time. In my opinion, it is only poorly-controlled diabetes that is progressive. Whether that's true or not I can't say for certain but it's going to be my approach for as long as I've got to live on this earth. 

I agree with what you say about portion control because that is important too especially with the problem foods that send our blood glucose levels into double figures. I believe that someone with diabetes can eat absolutely anything in small portions - one chocolate, sweet or anything else for that matter is really not going to do any harm to anyone. However, it's the stopping at eating only one that is the problem. If I'm given one chocolate with my coffee at the end of a restaurant meal then usually I'll eat it but I wouldn't ever be buying a box of them. Generally, I just find it easier to keep well clear of those types of foods.

Good luck and best wishes to both you and your mother from England.

John


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## choccy72

Hi John, i wonder if you can help me.....again!

Having seen the Gp today who gave me more diabetes info re healthy eating and weight loss, it states that you should increase the starchy carbs ie: cereals, rice etc within a healthy diet. I'm now a bit confused having read your plan above with great interest and don't know if i should be cutting out bread (2 slices of granary max per day)etc completely or continue. Obviously we're all different but like you were, i have a great deal of weight to lose and would love to get my BMI down to normal limits....whats the max carb allowance per day?


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## wallycorker

Hi choccy72,

Yes - that's what they told me and tell others also. However, it makes our Type 2 diabetic conditions worsen - they call it the inevitable progression of diabetes.

We really are not all so different because the starchy carbohydrate that we eat turns to sugar and increases our blood glucose levels. That happens to all of us. I can't tell you why the healthcare professionals give us that advice because I find it totally amazing and bewildering. Have you read my history of diabetes - I have summarised what happened to me in that respect in an earlier post:

http://www.diabetessupport.co.uk/boards/showthread.php?t=3961&highlight=reversal

I'm not in any position to advise you what you should or should not eat because only you can decide that. What I'm saying is that if you are having problems achieving good blood glucose control then cutting back on the starchy carbohydrates is the only way to go. What people need to do is to start carrying out some testing and see what effect different foods have on their blood glucose levels and then start reducing those foods. I am confident that you will find that starchy carbohydrates will send your blood glucose levels high.

Personally, these days, I hardly eat any bread of any sort, cereal of any sort other than Lizi's granola and potatoes - and I stress I do mean hardly any. I do eat a little bit of brown rice and spelt or pulse pasta occasionally. The low-GI food options do help a little if you still want to eat starchy carbohydrates but they aren't the full solution. Of course, portion control can help too. However, my testing has told me to try to keep well away from those foods. Whether you want to take your level of control to the same extent as me is quite another thing - that has to be your choice. 

In general, people on low-carbohydrate diets eat as little as 50 to 60gms of carbohydrate per day and I know at least one who eats only 30g but I don't know whether that is a good thing to do. My intake is still high at 100 to 200g per day - but hardly any as starchy carbohydrate. I take almost all of my carbohydrate as fruit and vegetables.

Hope that helps.

Best wishes - John


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## choccy72

Thanks John for replying. It's going to be hard as my Gp doesn't want me to test so i'll have to jiggle things about a bit and see how my body reacts. The carb figures you've given me will also help as i won't be getting a dietician referral either!

kind regards Ness


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## wallycorker

Good luck with everything Ness.

You probably already know more than I did even after eight years. I wish that I'd got the right messages earlier.

Best wishes - John


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## susan

*Thank you John*

Hi thank you John this will help me no end i think thats where ive gone wrong im eating to much bread and crisps to fill me up ive been eating at least three slices of bread a day i will cut that out and try to follow your diet, i will let you know if it helps me, i am 4 stone over weight and im 5 foot 2 not that big but still to big for my height,  thank you so much Susan.


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## wallycorker

Glad to hear that Susan,

I hope that it will help. I'm sure that you'll do well. 

We all look forward to hearing about how you do.

Good luck and best wishes - John


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## hotchop

Hi choccy

My gp adviced the opposite.. reduce starchy carbs to virtually nil.... but maybe a slice of wholemeal bread maybe twice a day( with peanut butter mmmm )

My prescription of gliclazide has just been inreased for a week and if still no result, I have to go on insulin    i had some basic lessons with the pen yesterday but i think he was introducing the idea in gently..like a brick! lol


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## wallycorker

hotchop said:


> ........My gp adviced the opposite.. reduce starchy carbs to virtually nil.... but maybe a slice of wholemeal bread maybe twice a day( with peanut butter mmmm ).........


Wow- Hotchop! That's unusual! You do have a very sensible sounding GP!

Best wishes - John


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## bal

*Thank you*

Hi 

Ive just joined the site and wanted to say thanks for all the information that youve posted on this site, especially your diet. Its given me an insight on what i need to do. 

Thanks again

Bal 







wallycorker said:


> I'm a non-insulin dependent Type 2 on metformin only. I was diagnosed over nine years ago in the very early stages with a fasting level just over 7 and HbA1c still in the 5s. My situation slowly progressed - i.e. deteriorated - for eight years by following the "do not test" and "eat plenty of starchy carbohydrate" advice usually given to Type 2s. Eventually, my GP prescribed metformin and the quickly doubled the dose. However, at that stage I started to test and change my diet and have reversed my situation. Today, all my numbers are all better than they were at diagnosis - in most of the cases by a massive amount. If I went to the doctors today then by the most-commonly-used diagnostic tests - fasting blood glucose levels or HbA1c - they would say that I did not have diabetes.
> 
> Basically, the main thing that I've done is to cut out almost all the starchy carbohydrates - e.g. cereals, bread , potatoes mainly but I'm also very careful with rice and pasta too. In my opinion this has been by far and away the main reason for my dramatic improvement in blood glucose levels.
> 
> My HbA1c has dropped from an high of 9.4% to in the 5s the last five tests - and a lowest ever of 5.1% last time. I'm hoping to take it below 5 very soon.
> 
> I have described below the diet that I've basically settled down to eating. This diet wasn't adopted overnight and isn't something that I've read about. My cuurent diet developed slowly by testing to see what effect different foods had on my blood glucose levels and then slowly adjusting my diet accordingly. My current typical eating and drinking patterns are as follows:
> 
> *Breakfast*
> 
> Usually grilled (but sometimes fried) bacon, tomatoes and mushrooms - sometimes an egg too.
> 
> Or, mushroom and bacon omlette
> 
> Or, if I ever eat cereals instead then it's always Lizi's granola these days - no other kind whatsoever even porridge.
> 
> Or, occasionally, low-fat natural yoghurt with berry fruits instead.
> 
> *Never bread or any other cereals except Lizi's granola. Certainly no porridge.*
> 
> *Lunch*
> 
> Almost always meat (usually ham or chicken) or fish or low-fat cottage cheese with a big salad (lettuce, spring onions, peppers, radishes, celery, cucumber, cherry tomatoes, with a few grapes or chopped apple) - with a small amount of linseed/flax seeds added - plus a dressing made with olive oil and apple cider vinegar.
> 
> *Never any bread or potatoes*
> 
> If I'm in a pub situation then I usually eat beef or gammon steak with vegetables - sometimes with a few chips.
> 
> *Evening Meal*
> 
> Meat (usually chicken) or fish with various vegetables - sometimes as a stew type meal.
> 
> Sometimes I eat low-GI type brown rice or spelt or pulse pasta or something similar.
> 
> *Never any bread or potatoes - or anything like pizza, naan bread, chapatis or suchlike even if I'm in a restaurant.*
> 
> *Snacks*
> 
> I eat fruit throughout the day and every day - loads of it - as well-spaced-out snacks - never as part of another meal apart from where shown above - I pick the smallest pieces of fruit that I can find and eat all the following every day usually sometimes more than one of each (but never at the same time) - apples, pears, satsumas, plums frequently - and occasionally, bananas, kiwis, peaches or grapes. I fill my pockets with fruit whenever I leave the house and eat it as I move about.
> 
> The rest of the time, I nibble at:
> 
> A small amount (around 20g) of mixed nuts and dried fruit - usually every day.
> 
> Low-fat yoghurts - most popular Muller Light but others too.
> 
> Low-fat cheese - with one or two oatcakes or Ryvita Thins.
> 
> Tesco Light cottage cheese with pineapple.
> 
> Oily fish - rich in omega-3 types - sardines, mackerels etc.
> 
> Pickles - beetroot, cucumber, onions, red cabbage etc.
> 
> Cherry tomatoes
> 
> Cold vegetables if there are any in the fridge.
> 
> Ice cream is just about my only weakness and very occasionally, I eat an ice cream cone. I stress very occasionally.
> 
> *Never - packets of crisps, buns, biscuits, sweets, chocolate, cake and suchlike on a regular basis. Except I might eat one biscuit or one small piece of chocolate on very rare occasions indeed. I might have a few crisps or small piece of cake or bun in a buffet situation.*
> 
> *Alcohol*
> 
> I used to drink a lot but these days drink very little (about five units a week) - mainly the odd glass of red wine or sometimes a small whisky. Very rarely, I will have a little more red wine on a special occasion when out for the evening and I'm not driving. These days, I rarely ever drink alcohol in the house even though my wife and family do. I must say, it wasn't always like that!
> 
> *Other Drinks*
> 
> Various teas (spiced, earl gray, redbush etc, etc) and coffee (mainly decaffeinated but not always) all black with a sweetner - I try to vary the drinks depending on the time of day.
> 
> If I ever do use milk - e.g. with Lizi's granola or in drinks - it is always the 0.75% OR 1% fat milk types.
> 
> Sparkling spring water or just plain old simple tap water by the pint with my evening meal.
> 
> Very, very occasionally these days I might drink a Tango Zero.
> 
> *Never fruit juice or non-Zero drinks. Very rarely any beer or lager these days*
> 
> *Supplements*
> 
> One multivitamin tablet one per day
> One omega-3 one capsule once per day
> One apple cider vinegar tablet last thing at night
> 
> By the way, I'm still calorie counting because I still want to lose more than the 5 stone that I've lost already. I'm intent to take my BMI to below 25 - i.e. into the normal weight band - I'm almost at that stage with a BMI of around 28 - down from BMI 40. I might take it as low as a BMI of 22.5 - i.e my supposed "ideal weight" as defined by the health people. These days I'm eating around 1,300 to 1,500 calories per day most days and occasionally (about once a week just a little more). Despite that, I never feel hungry!
> 
> I don't put very much of my improvement - if any at all - down to my loss in weight quite simply because the lowering of blood glucose levels came about immediately that I started to change my diet - i.e. in days or weeks. I say this because I didn't have to wait until I'd lost a lot of weight before I got my improvement. In my opinion and in my case, I consider that it was the the dietary change that was most important - i.e. mainly the cutting back dramatically on my starchy carbohydrate intake that led to my improvement.
> 
> By the way, I do very little exercise and when I do it's nothing other than just ordinary walking - just a very occasional two to three mile easy walk. I really ought to try to do much more for my general health and well-being.
> 
> I think that covers just about everything. I hope that other people with non-insulin dependent Type 2 diabetes might find this detailed summary of my current eating habits useful and that my experience might be helpful to them in dealing with getting control of their own Type 2 situations.
> 
> If anyone has any further questions then just ask away.
> 
> Best wishes - John


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## wallycorker

bal said:


> Hi
> 
> Ive just joined the site and wanted to say thanks for all the information that youve posted on this site, especially your diet. Its given me an insight on what i need to do.
> 
> Thanks again
> 
> Bal


Thanks Bal - I'm grateful for those kind words!

I hope that you will benefit from my experiences and that others will too. If it does help please come back and let us know how you are progressing.

Very best wishes - John


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## thrifty

*re diet*

Thanks John. I have been following your posts on the other site and have signed your petition. Your advice is excellent and a big help

Debbie


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## Sharpe

I read all this with interest as it does sound very much like it is all based on an Atkin's type diet. Now I tried that years ago and it made me feel dreadfully ill and gave it up after a few months. 

I now just eat what I want in much smaller portions and am able to eat breads, potato, cereals, pasta without raising my glucose levels, keeping the weight off. I actually have lost over 6 stone using this method in around 18 months. I feel much healthier and certainly my wife finds it difficult to keep up with me when on our regular walks. 

I am a firm believer in testing often, sometimes 1,2, 3 and 4 hrs as it reveals all those hidden spikes which those who test only 1 and 2 hrs often miss. It is surprising how different our choice of foods can be if we test at the right times.

Dave


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## wallycorker

Sharpe said:


> I read all this with interest as it does sound very much like it is all based on an Atkin's type diet. Now I tried that years ago and it made me feel dreadfully ill and gave it up after a few months.
> 
> I now just eat what I want in much smaller portions and am able to eat breads, potato, cereals, pasta without raising my glucose levels, keeping the weight off. I actually have lost over 6 stone using this method in around 18 months. I feel much healthier and certainly my wife finds it difficult to keep up with me when on our regular walks.
> 
> I am a firm believer in testing often, sometimes 1,2, 3 and 4 hrs as it reveals all those hidden spikes which those who test only 1 and 2 hrs often miss. It is surprising how different our choice of foods can be if we test at the right times.
> 
> Dave


Hi Dave, 

I certainly don't "feel dreadfully ill" - in fact, I feel just great!

LisaQ said something similar regarding Atkins further up the thread and this is what I said to her in my reply:

"_I don't really know what Atkins is because I've never read about that diet or any other diet of that type for that matter. When I talk about diet, I don't mean diet in that sense - I mean changing my diet to cut down on the foods that send my blood glucose levels high. The separate diet that I use to lose weight is quite straightforward old-fashioned calorie counting. 

However, what I do know is that Atkins is a low-carbohydrate diet and I don't really fit into that category. I still eat quite a lot of carbohydrate every day - between 100g and 200g - but almost all of it as fruit and vegetables with very little as starchy carbohydrate - i.e. about 40 to 50% of my calories as carbohydrates which is quite normal as I understand things. Many people that have taken excellent control of their blood glucose levels would tell me that I still eat too much carbohydrate."_

I too have lost a lot of weight - over 5 stones in the last eighteen months and I'm still taking it lower until I reach a BMI of around 22.5.

Moreover, I agree entirely with what you say about testing. Extensive testing at all sorts of different times between 15 minutes and 5 hours - has been a very big part of my improvement programme. I am aware that spikes can occur, in some people and with certain foods, later than one hour. However, no matter what I eat almost, I find that my peak is almost always around the one hour mark and that, in my particular case, it is very rare indeed for any two hour test to be higher than my one hour test. In fact, again in my particular case, I can't remember any reading after the two hour mark ever being higher than the one or two hour test. 

Best wishes - John


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## wallycorker

thrifty said:


> Thanks John. I have been following your posts on the other site and have signed your petition. Your advice is excellent and a big help
> 
> Debbie


Thanks Debbie!

Glad to read that you think my post might help people in a similar situation.

Very best wishes - John


----------



## Knapweed

I have to praise John and others who help new diabetics with the excellent advice provided.
I found another forum and some excellent advice posted about a low carb approach to helping maintain good BS levels (not Bull  ). That led me to reading Dr Bernstein's book & Blood Sugar 101 (check the web site out) and I have a restricted carb intake.  Probably under 100g on a normal day.

BUT... I found it easy to stop the rice,pasta, potatoes, bread, sweeties, etc (still do 90% cocoa chocolate - always loved it) however I know that will not suit everyone. My wife tries to eat the same even although she is not diabetic and lost weight too. (I lost 3 stone without exercise).

I'm convinced that traditional medical opinion is wrong in respect of diabetics diets and if they get that so wrong what else is wrong? It has led me to question every aspect of my medical advice more and do more research for myself rather than rely on my very good GP (she's open to suggestions from other sources and prescribes me strips).

Best of luck to everyone who tries this approach.

Ken


----------



## wallycorker

Thanks Ken!

It's great to learn that you find the stuff useful. That's what makes spreading the messages worthwhile as far as I am concerned. 

By the way, I keep trying new stuff all the time and keep making adjustments to my diet accordingly. I've only just tried replacing potatoes with cauliflower - my wife made a cauli-mash cottage pie at the weekend. It was just great and my wife liked it too. I've eaten it three times already and I've had great results from my meter every time:

Sunday
Cauli-mash cottage pie, peas and gravy (including second helpings!)
5.7 - one hour after finishing eating
5.4 - two hours after finishing eating

Monday
Cauli-mash cottage pie, peas and gravy
5.5 - one hour after finishing eating

Tuesday
Cauli-mash cottage pie, peas with pickled beetroot and red cabbage
5.6 - one hour after finishing eating

In addition, I've often heard it said that cauli-rice is great to eat too - as a substitute for normal rice. I've not tried that yet but certainly will be doing so before very long.

Just like your wife, mine also enjoys all the alternative things that I've tested out - e.g. cauli-mash, spelt pasta, pulse pasta etc.

In fact, I'm considering starting to learn to do some cooking for the first time in my life. I'm very keen to test out some flax seed bread - or cake - that I've read about elsewhere.

It's good to hear that there is at least  one other "no exercise" person. However, I'm not proud of it!  I'm trying to increase the amount of walking that I do and to test out the effect that it might be having on my blood glucose levels. However, these days, they are so low that I'm running out of how much further I can go - I'm expecting my next HbA1c which is due fairly soon  to be quite possibly be in the 4s. From your signature, it looks as though you are nearly there too. Well done on your achievements in a very short time indeed. You look to be well on track!

Best wishes - John


----------



## sandy

wallycorker said:


> I don't put very much of my improvement in blood glucose readings - if any at all - down to my loss in weight. Why not? Quite simply because the lowering of blood glucose levels came about immediately that I started to change my diet - i.e. in days or weeks. I say this because I found that I didn't have to wait until I'd lost a lot of weight before I got my improvement and that may help to motivate others who find losing weight to be difficult. In my opinion and in my case, I consider that it was the dietary change that was most important - i.e. mainly the cutting back dramatically on my starchy carbohydrate intake which led to my improvement.



While I agree that this is the case - my BG dropped quickly (over a few weeks) from 18 to 6 I would be interested to see how your body coped if you went back to your old ways for a day. i.e. how would the graph of your bg after a "normal" sunday roast today compare to the graph you took when first diagnosed.

I wonder whether your new svelt like body is now better equipped to deal with the after effects on its own.


----------



## sandy

Another question Wallycorker - why so dead set against porridge?


----------



## Northerner

sandy said:


> Another question Wallycorker - why so dead set against porridge?



We are all different, and John's reaction to porridge is to send his levels rocketing - for some people though, it is fine! It's a case of trying it and seeing how it works for you. It's fine for me and a lot of others, so might be for you - diabetes is a tricky little swine at times and doesn't always stick to the 'rules'!


----------



## sandy

Interesting - thanks


----------



## wallycorker

sandy said:


> While I agree that this is the case - my BG dropped quickly (over a few weeks) from 18 to 6 I would be interested to see how your body coped if you went back to your old ways for a day. i.e. how would the graph of your bg after a "normal" sunday roast today compare to the graph you took when first diagnosed.
> 
> I wonder whether your new svelt like body is now better equipped to deal with the after effects on its own.


Hi Sandy, 

Sorry for the late response - I've just got back from a few days away.

You might be right and I certainly wouldn't discount that weight loss has helped with my improvement to some degree. However, I really do believe that it is what I eat that makes the most difference to my blood glucose levels. I'm quite convinced that with what I've learnt by experimentation and testing that I could soon get my HbA1c back up into the 8's and 9's whilst maintaining my weight where it is now. 

How would I set about doing that? By eating starchy carbohydrates - e.g. cereals, bread, potatoes, pasta, rice and pizza - and at the same time limiting my daily calorific intake to somewhere around 2,000 calories per day. I'm absolutely convinced that would take my blood glucose levels to where they were before I started my improvement programme.

Best wishes - John


----------



## wallycorker

sandy said:


> Another question Wallycorker - why so dead set against porridge?


Hi again Sandy,

As Northerner has already explained, quite simply because whenever I eat porridge testing has shown me that it takes my blood glucose levels into double figures. 

No other reason whatsoever!

Best wishes - John


----------



## sandy

wallycorker said:


> Hi again Sandy,
> 
> Quite simply because whenever I eat porridge testing has shown me that it takes my blood glucose levels into double figures.
> 
> No other reason whatsoever!
> 
> Best wishes - John



Weird I had a bowl the other morning and tested and mine got to about 7.4 (IIRC)


----------



## shellyknees

Hello John,

I really want to get to the stage where I am controlling my type 2 with diet and exercise. and I eat almost the same as you. However, my dietician told me that it was not good to cut our carbs altogether. I usually have Dorset Cereals High fibre muesli for breakfast and two slices of home made grannary bread  made into a sandwhich at lunch time. I guess I eat bread about 5 days out of 7 and cereal every day except saturday and sunday where I eat the bread in the morning with grilled bacon and tomatoes for breakfast and then salad at lunch time. 
However, I'm finding that around 11am and 4 pm, I get a strange sort of gittery feeling, I go all hot, feel shivery and shaky and sometimes nausious. I usually have a small pear at or around 11am and a couple of oatcakes at 4pm and this stops the gitteryness within 20 minutes. But I would like to find a way of cutting out carbs. Do you not find that you get these gittery feelings by not eating any carbs?
I did get my doctor to test me one day around 11am to see if I was having a hypo. but she said I wasnt it was probably because, I have very active mornings. (We run a guest house so from 6.30am to around 11 we are full on most days. After sorting out the Guest House we then go shopping for provisions. We walk about a five mile trip to and from the shops and I find that on the way back, the gitters get really bad and I have to really push myself to walk home. Sometimes when its been really bad I buy a pear and eat it while we walk which usually works after around 20 mins.)
By the way, If you feel like it, can you put more of your daily food menus down, so other people can follow your diet. it sounds great.
One last thing. have you tried Butterbean Mash? look out for my recipie. its great with meat dishes, especially if you wanted to forego potatoes with a meal.


----------



## Carina1962

I agree with Shellyknees, let's have some more menus from you Wallycorker and i'm going to try the cauli mash and the butterbean very soon


----------



## Carina1962

Shellyknees, forgot to ask you, do you have your recipe for home made granary bread?  i've got a breadmaker and i've used various ready made bread mixes but would be interested in yours, thanks


----------



## wallycorker

Hi shelleyknees,

People seem to keep mistaking what I say about my diet - I'm certainly not on what people consider to be a low-carb diet because I'm eating around 100g to 200g per day of carbohydrate. However, I eat hardly any *starchy* carbohydrate whatsoever - i.e. cereals, bread, potatoes, pasta, rice, pizza etc. These days almost all of the carbohydrate that I eat comes from fruit and vegetables. Certainly, I don't "cut out carbs altogether" as you say. I'd say that I'm on a low-fat and a very-much-reduced starchy carbohydrate diet - with a low alcohol intake also.

It does sound as though the symptoms that you describe may be hypo' symptoms - either real or false. If you do go low then have a snack - my snacks are almost always a small piece of fruit. I carry fruit with me wherever I go. If you aren't going low then the symptoms could be false and happening because your blood glucose levels are dropping sharply from previous highs. I don't experience any such symptoms even when my blood glucose levels drop below 4 - I occasionally experience readings below 4 and as low as 3.2 on one occasion recently.

I don't really have any special menus other than things that I've described in my original post - I simply choose non-starchy carbohydrate options from what food is available to me at any particular time - i.e. it's more about what I don't eat rather than what I do eat. For example, tomorrow my wife may prepare a typical Sunday roast joint lunch to cater for the entire family - i.e. about 8 to 10 of us including two vegetarians. If she does then I'd likely eat everything except the potatoes - i.e. I'd eat the meat or fish and all of the vegetables. Quite simply, I'd not eat the potatoes and perhaps the Yorkshire puddings. 

Today for example, instead of my usual grilled breakfast, I had low-fat natural yoghurt with bluberries plus two teaspoons (i.e. 10g) of Lizi's granola. I was in a pub situation for lunch and chose ham and eggs - i.e. the least starchy carbohydrate option available - however, on this occasion, I had a few chips too. With my lunch I drank a couple of glasses of red wine - i.e. the low-carb option compared with drinking the beer and lager that my friends drank. For snacks I have eaten a pear, an apple and two satsumas and a small cereal bar. I didn't have an evening meal tonight but I'm thinking about having a tin of sardines for supper with salad items and various pickles for supper.

No - I haven't tried butterbean mash - and maybe I will. However, I must say that I'm not desperately looking around for new things to eat because - in my opinion - I have absolutely loads of very suitable foods to choose from. I'm finding it quite easy to make my food choices these days now I have learnt what foods I need to avoid. I was on holiday last week and eating in pubs and restaurants most of the time. However, I must say - that really isn't a problem to me. I just tend to choose different things to those that my non-diabetic wife might choose.

Ask away, if there is anything else you'd like to know.

Best wishes - John


----------



## wallycorker

carina62 said:


> I agree with Shellyknees, let's have some more menus from you Wallycorker and i'm going to try the cauli mash and the butterbean very soon


OK Carina - here is today's fairly typical family Sunday lunch - i.e. I stress made for the family and not for me in particular.

4.2 - Before eating

2 pork sausages (Debby & Andrew's of Harrogate brand bought from Tesco - 97% pork - i.e. low carbohydrate)
Cauliflower mash
Carrots
Brussel sprouts 
Swede and potato mash (small portion for me)
Mashed potato (none for me)
Onion gravy
Strawberries for afters

4.9 - 60 mins after finishing eating
5.0 - 90 mins after finishing eating
4.1 - 120 mins after finishing eating

A great result as far as I'm concerned!

Again, I stress as explained to Shellyknees, it's more about what I didn't eat rather than any special meal or menu being prepared for me.

Best wishes - John


----------



## Carina1962

thanks again Wallycorker, those BS results are great and good tip about the sausages as i didn't realise that sausages contain carbs until someone else happened to mention it on here once.

Did you say that you take metformin?  if you do, don't you think that this helps you to achieve your excellent levels?


----------



## wallycorker

carina62 said:


> thanks again Wallycorker, those BS results are great and good tip about the sausages as i didn't realise that sausages contain carbs until someone else happened to mention it on here once.
> 
> Did you say that you take metformin?  if you do, don't you think that this helps you to achieve your excellent levels?


Yes Carina - I do still take metformin but I don't think that metformin is contributing hardly anything at all to my levels these days. It certainly didn't seem to be having any effect before I changed my diet - my HbA1c at that stage was still in the 8s and 9s. I'm expecting my GP to take me off metformin before too long but I'm not pushing the issue at present.

I keep telling you Carina that, in my opinion, it's cutting back on the starchy carbohydrate that makes the biggest difference and not the tablets, weight loss or exercise!

Best wishes - John


----------



## shellyknees

*Ah! enlightenment! Feels good dun it?*

Hello Johh.
Thank you for your reply. I think Im finally understanding where you are coming from. Cereals, potatoes, pasta and things that have flour in like bread must be what people call Complex Carbs. I did not know fruit had carbs in too though.

I guess I need to learn more about what the difference between complex carbs and carbs are and learn which foods are the safe ones to eat, like pulses, beans etc.
I take metformin and Glemipride, and I test with wee strips. I do it three times a day and as long as I get a negative reading I think Im doing ok! Do you think I should get one of those blood sugar monitors where you prick your finger. In order that you get more detailed reading.

I must admit, I do get confused because I do not understand a lot about how carbs and complex carbs work and what else can raise blood sugars. Or I do but I just dont know it. (I know that sounds daft but I've just come out of the denial stage of being a diabetes type 2 and have been sticking as much as I can to fruit, veg, meat and fish, but I could also be eating too much cereal and Bread.


----------



## C*5_Dodger

shellyknees said:


> Hello Johh.
> Thank you for your reply. I think Im finally understanding where you are coming from. Cereals, potatoes, pasta and things that have flour in like bread must be what people call Complex Carbs. I did not know fruit had carbs in too though.
> 
> I guess I need to learn more about what the difference between complex carbs and carbs are and learn which foods are the safe ones to eat, like pulses, beans etc.
> I take metformin and Glemipride, and I test with wee strips. I do it three times a day and as long as I get a negative reading I think Im doing ok! Do you think I should get one of those blood sugar monitors where you prick your finger. In order that you get more detailed reading.
> 
> I must admit, I do get confused because I do not understand a lot about how carbs and complex carbs work and what else can raise blood sugars. Or I do but I just dont know it. (I know that sounds daft but I've just come out of the denial stage of being a diabetes type 2 and have been sticking as much as I can to fruit, veg, meat and fish, but I could also be eating too much cereal and Bread.



Dear shellyknees,

I'm sure John won't mind me butting in on his thread, but you have the complex carbs thing wrong. Bread is a simple carb (starch), and a good way of finding out what are simple carbs is to look at the glaecemic index (GI). If it is high (>50) then it is almost certainly a simple carb. Veggies and fruit, especially if they grow above the ground are complex (low GI) and so raise you blood sugar slowly, so along with portion control, are generally OK. However, as John keeps saying, you need to test your BS to determine what foods you can tolerate.

Regards    Dodger


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## wallycorker

shellyknees said:


> Hello Johh.
> Thank you for your reply. I think Im finally understanding where you are coming from. Cereals, potatoes, pasta and things that have flour in like bread must be what people call Complex Carbs. I did not know fruit had carbs in too though.
> 
> I guess I need to learn more about what the difference between complex carbs and carbs are and learn which foods are the safe ones to eat, like pulses, beans etc.
> I take metformin and Glemipride, and I test with wee strips. I do it three times a day and as long as I get a negative reading I think Im doing ok! Do you think I should get one of those blood sugar monitors where you prick your finger. In order that you get more detailed reading.
> 
> I must admit, I do get confused because I do not understand a lot about how carbs and complex carbs work and what else can raise blood sugars. Or I do but I just dont know it. (I know that sounds daft but I've just come out of the denial stage of being a diabetes type 2 and have been sticking as much as I can to fruit, veg, meat and fish, but I could also be eating too much cereal and Bread.


Hi again shellyknees,

Sorry for the delay in replying - I've been away for a few days.

Yes - I firmly believe that testing blood glucose levels is a good idea. If we don't do that then how do we know what is happening? 

However, simplifying things, in the absence of testing, if you stick "fruit, veg, meat and fish" and cut back as far as you can on "eating too much cereal and Bread" then you'll be not too far off the right track.

Good luck and best wishes - John


----------



## thedame

Hi John

I have found you post very informative and encouraging

I am now getting acceptable control of my sugar levels on a combination of Byetta and Metformin but battle with weight loss. I too have been advised to stick to a balanced diet but one which included carbs. Although I am pleased to get better control of my sugars, it would be fantastic if I could get to a point when I can drop some of the meds as I am on 6x500g Metformin plus the Byetta- a trunk load of stuff to get through each month! 

I eat a lot of bread and cereals and other starchy foods- potatoes and rice, albeit wholemeal and with portion control, so a regime like yours will be a big change. However, I would like to give it a try and see the effects this has on both my levels and my weight. I see my DSN in about 3 weeks for regular checkup and would like to run some of these ideas past her and have a few questions, if you would be kind enough to help:

Bearing in mind that you developed this regime over a period of trying and testing, would you think it wise to start with maybe one meal at a time - say cut out the cereal or toast I usually have for brekkie and try bacon, mushrooms, tomatoes, the odd egg, yoghurt  (not all together of course!) which you have yourself, as I enjoy all these foods and would find this the easiest meal to swap over too. I would like to see how sustaining I find these foods and how it effects my levels as I find it can take 3 hours for my levels to come down again after having my breakfast.

Would it be acceptable to substitute a sandwich at lunchtime for a lower value item such as Ryvita with something like ham and some salad - I am not a great vegetable lover unless taken with the meat and starchy stuff, so I am thinking, one step at a time! In other words, would the effect of taking less carbs with a meal be that the lower sugars/weight loss is slower than virtually cutting them out? I ask as I know that some diets- and I don't mean the faddy sort, only become effective if certain foods are not mixed with others? Hope this makes sense!

Thanks in advance


----------



## wallycorker

Hi,

It's quite hard for me to make an accurate guess as to how things would effect you. However, I'd say that any starchy carbohydrate that you cut out would likely lead to lower blood glucose levels. Certainly, that is how it worked for me.

I found that I had more problems dealing with carbohydrate at breakfast time and several other people Type 2 say that it is the same for them too. So, I'd say cutting back on carbohydrate at breakfast time is likely to have the biggest effect. The first things that I cut back on was the cereal at breakfast - closely followed by any bread or toast because I found that even half a slice of low-carb burgen toast still raised my levels unduly.

I suppose not long after that I cut out sandwiches for lunch and moved onto a salad with meat, fish or cheese.

Later in the day, I've found that I can take quite a lot more carbohydrate especially if I take it as brown rice - or spelt or pulse pasta. However, these days, I've adapted my diet and largely cut most - but not all - of that sort of thing out too.

I suppose what you are suggesting is quite similar to how my own personal diet developed and I'd expect that you could quite quickly expect to see significant improvements. If you are similar to me, then I'd expect that once you start to see your blood glucose levels improve then that itself will have a massive effect on improving your motivation to modify your diet further to try to achieve even further improvement. I've found that lowering blood glucose levels can be quite addictive!

You sound to be on the right track - I am confident that you will do well. My advice would be to just take things slowly but always moving in what you know to be the right direction. In my opinion, now is the time to do it before your GP starts talking about moving onto injecting insulin. 

Good luck and best wishes - John


----------



## thedame

Hi John

Thank you so much for the advice and the encouragement - you have helped me so much to get motivated and I will start with breakfasts as soon as I get organized then off to the shops again to stock up (or should that be stock down!!!!) But I will not rush it- one step at a time and monitor - it took me nearly 60 years to get to this stage - I am sure a week or two planning will be be far more beneficial than the panic approach which has left me falling of whichever diet wagon I climbed on for a quick fix in the past. Such a shame it takes so long to get older and wiser


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## wallycorker

Yes - just take things steady and making small adjustments but keep moving in the right direction. I'm confident that you'll get there! Think of it like learning to walk - once you set off you'll soon be running.

Keep monitoring too but make the strips count don't just test at any old time and waste them. It's too easy to do that.

Good luck and best wishes - John


----------



## thedame

Week 1 of testing after usual cereal and toast confirmed it takes 3 hours for my levels to come down after brekkie. Will report back when I have done my week of low carb brekkies. Bit of a lark this Disgusted at the choice of cereals in Sainsburys though - I am used to the weetabix, shredded wheat or nothing in the main section of the cereal shelf but no "heathier" option of oaty muesli stuff offered anything under 30g of carbs per 50g - Lizi's being a modest 5.5g I believe? Why do they stuff these products with dried fruit - I prefer to add my own fresh fruit? Oh well, will try Tesco next or mail order from the web site.

Will report back after my bacon and egg fest My friend has chickens in her garden and she gave me a selection of her organic free range eggs to start me off, including 2 blue ones!


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## wallycorker

Bacon and eggs sounds the best option!


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## williammcd

bump this should be sticked guys some great advice 

well done wallycorker and thnx


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## diadeb

*Cauli-rice*

Hi John, yes, many thanks for all of your information and I too have taken a leaf out of your book and reduced my blood glucose levels. If you understand what diabetes is then it seems so obvious to me to reduce the intake of complex carbs, why do "Diabetic Nurses" say to increase them?
Anyway thank you for all of the information, I now eat pulse pasta and cauli-mash but can you tell me what is cauli-rice please?
Keep up the good work, Debra


----------



## wallycorker

Hi Debra,

Thanks for your kind words. It always makes me happy to hear that  my experience of what has happened to me might have been of some use to others. That makes my posting on these diabetes forums worthwhile.

It still totally confuses me as to why the healthcare professionals so often give the "do not test" and "eat plenty of starchy carbohydrate" to Type 2s. Despite me questioning loads of healthcare professionals on the subject nobody has ever given me a remotely meaningful explanation.

I've never eaten cauli-rice myself and I'm ashamed to say that I can't cook hardly anything whatsoever. However, as I understand things it's grating the cauliflower into small rice-sized particles and then frying the stuff. I'm certain that you'll be able to find the method by searching these diabetes forums. I'll take a look myself and post a link if I can find anything.

Very best wishes - John


----------



## diadeb

*Cauli-Rice*

Hi John, just been on Google and watched video of cauli-rice being made.
Chop cauliflower into normal sized pieces
Place in food processor or hand grate into very fine pieces
Place into micrwavable dish, do not add any water and cook on full power for 4-5 minutes and comes out looking like rice.
The cooked cauli-rice got 4.6 % reviews out of a possible 5 % so I will give it a try.
Regards, Debra :


----------



## wallycorker

Glad about that Debra - but it all sounds too complicated for me. I'll pass the details onto my cook. 

Let us know how it goes - particularly what result you get when eating it.

Best wishes - John


----------



## diadeb

*Cauli-rice*

HGi John, tried cauli-rice last night and it tasted fine. The problem was because I don't have a food processor and had to grate it by hand I found it to be too laborious, so I will stick to brown rice for the moment.
Regards, Debra


----------



## wallycorker

Hi again Debra,

Thanks! You sound to be on the right track. Keep us all updated on your progress.

Best wishes - John


----------



## Jill

I really admire your dedicated approach to your illness and wish you well.  My problem is that I'm a vegetarian which limits my options somewhat.  Also, I attended the Desmond Programme on diagnosis who advised the class to exercise until a little breathless but, as I also have COPD and become out of puff easily, it's difficult to know if this level of exercise is enough to help the diabetes.  However, I do walk up as many hills as I can, as often as I can and hope for the best.


----------



## wallycorker

Jill said:


> I really admire your dedicated approach to your illness and wish you well.  My problem is that I'm a vegetarian which limits my options somewhat.  Also, I attended the Desmond Programme on diagnosis who advised the class to exercise until a little breathless but, as I also have COPD and become out of puff easily, it's difficult to know if this level of exercise is enough to help the disbetes.  However, I do walk up as many hills as I can, as often as I can and hope for the best.


Hi Jill,

At the start of my improvement programme, I was eating almost but not entirely a vegetarian diet - in fact almost but not entirely a vegan diet. I no longer do that because I've started eating more meat. However, being vegetarian shouldn't need put you or anyone else off improving their situation by eating much less starchy carbohydrate foods - i.e. cereals, bread, potatoes, pasta, rice, pizza etc.

I can't help with advice on exercise because I do relatively little - nothing more than normal walking relatively short distances. I really ought to do much more.

Best wishes - John


----------



## Jill

Thanks for that John.  Am considering re-introducing chicken into my diet and have drastically cut down on starchy carbs, although not quite as drastically as you have managed and I do love bread and potatoes.  I'm fairly new to all this but my last HbA1c was 6% so not too bad.


----------



## Vicsetter

You are very lucky John (Wallycorker).  I try to follow a relaxed Bernstein diet along similar lines to you.  However I don't eat much fruit, but have avoided bread, no longer eat rice, only have a couple of small potatoes with an evening meal etc etc.  I still need 160 units of Levemir a day to keep my levels down, I average 5.x to 6.x throughout the day , pre meal and about 5.8 morning fasting.  A1c about 6.

I seem to remember I posted and alternative to bread for sandwiches, which was to microwave 2 slices of Kraft cheese on Teflon coated paper (40 secs should do it), wait till it's cold and it goes quite stiff.  Stick some ham in between and there you go.

I've also found recently that a small amount of white bread (2 slices) can stimulate me to actually lower my BG (it goes high but then drops to below the pre-meal value), aren't we strange.


----------



## wallycorker

Hi Vicsetter,

Yes your situation sounds quite a lot different to mine. I do usually point out that I'm a non-insulin-dependent Type 2. I suppose a lot must depend on how far our conditions have progressed before we started to take action ourselves. There must be a point at which it is difficult and maybe impossible for dietary changes to make up for a pancreas that has deteriorated too far.

I'm certain that I'd likely be using insulin myself if I hadn't taken action to self-manage my condition nearly two years ago.

Anyway, you sound to be doing just fine as far as controlling your blood glucose levels. We all know that is important and makes sense in the long run don't we.

Good luck and best wishes - John


----------



## wallycorker

Jill said:


> Thanks for that John.  Am considering re-introducing chicken into my diet and have drastically cut down on starchy carbs, although not quite as drastically as you have managed and I do love bread and potatoes.  I'm fairly new to all this but my last HbA1c was 6% so not too bad.


Hi again Jill,

An HbA1c of 6% is very good indeed well done! I recommend that you do try to keep it at that level and slowly keep working at trying to get it lower.

You sound to be well on track to avoid problems further down the line.

I too used to love all the starchy carbohydrates - cereals, bread, potatoes, pizza, pasta, rice and the rest. These days I hate them all after what I came to learn they were doing to my body!

Good luck and best wishes - John


----------



## Jill

wallycorker said:


> Hi again Jill,
> 
> An HbA1c is very good indeed well done! I recommend that you do try to keep it at that level and slowly keep working at trying to get it lower.
> 
> You sound to be well on track to avoid problems further down the line.
> 
> I too used to love all the starchy carbohydrates - cereals, bread, potatoes, pizza, pasta, rice and the rest. These days I hate them all after what I came to learn they were doing to my body!
> 
> Good luck and best wishes - John



Thank you John - that's encouraging and I hope I do as well as you.


----------



## wallycorker

You'll do just fine Jill - believe me!


----------



## johnsonhartley

wallycorker said:


> This post describes the diet that I've adopted over the last eighteen months to successfully deal with my non-insulin dependent Type 2 diabetes which is still being treated with metformin.
> 
> I'm a sixty-six-years old non-insulin dependent Type 2 on metformin only. I was diagnosed over nine years ago in the very early stages with a fasting level just over 7 and HbA1c of only 5.7%. My situation slowly progressed - i.e. deteriorated - for eight years by following the "do not test" and "eat plenty of starchy carbohydrate" advice usually given to Type 2s. Eventually, my HbA1c reached 9.4% and my GP prescribed metformin - and then very soon after doubled the dosage.
> 
> At that stage and against my doctor?s advice, I started to test and by doing that soon came to understand the effect that different foods had on my blood glucose levels. By using that information and gradually changing my diet over the last eighteen months, I have fully reversed my Type 2 diabetic situation. Today, all my numbers are better than they were at diagnosis - in most of the cases by a massive amount. If I went to the doctor today then by the most-commonly-used diagnostic tests - fasting blood glucose levels or HbA1c - they would say that I did not have diabetes.
> 
> Basically, the main thing that I've done is to cut out almost all the starchy carbohydrates - e.g. cereals, bread, potatoes mainly but I'm also very careful with rice and pasta too. In my opinion this has been by far and away the main reason for my dramatic improvement in blood glucose levels.
> 
> My HbA1c has dropped from a high of 9.4% to in the 5s the last five tests - and a lowest-ever of 5.1% last time. I'm hoping to take it below 5 very soon.
> 
> I have described below the diet that I've basically settled down to eating. This diet wasn't adopted overnight and isn't something that I've read about. My current diet developed slowly by testing - to see what effect different foods had on my blood glucose levels - and then slowly adjusting my diet accordingly. My current typical eating and drinking patterns are as follows:
> 
> *Breakfast*
> 
> Usually grilled (but sometimes fried) bacon, tomatoes and mushrooms - sometimes an egg too.
> 
> - Or, mushroom, bacon, cheese omelette.
> 
> - Or, if I ever eat cereals instead then it's always Lizi's granola (low-GI nut-based) these days. I eat no other kind of cereal whatsoever these days ? not even porridge.
> 
> - Or, occasionally, low-fat natural yoghurt with berry fruits instead.
> 
> *I never eat bread or any other cereals except Lizi's granola at breakfast ? and certainly no porridge.*
> 
> 
> *Lunch*
> 
> Almost always meat (usually ham or chicken) or fish or low-fat cottage cheese with a big salad (lettuce, spring onions, peppers, radishes, celery, cucumber, cherry tomatoes, with a few grapes or chopped apple) - with a small amount of linseed/flax seeds added - plus a dressing made with olive oil and apple cider vinegar.
> 
> *No bread or potatoes ? except very occasionally and ? if I do - only a very small amount.*
> 
> If I'm in a pub situation then I usually eat beef or gammon steak with vegetables - sometimes with a few chips. Salads are another very good option too when eating out.
> 
> *Evening Meal*
> 
> Meat (usually chicken) or fish with various vegetables - sometimes as a stew type meal.
> 
> Sometimes I eat low-GI type brown rice or spelt or pulse pasta or something similar.
> 
> I?ve recently started to substitute cauliflower for potatoes to make such things as cauli-mash cottage pie, or cauli-rice type dishes. I?ve found that such dishes give very good post-meal blood-glucose readings. Cauliflower is a great substitute for potatoes.
> 
> *Never any bread or potatoes - or anything like pizza, naan bread, chapattis or suchlike even if I'm in a restaurant - except very occasionally.  If I do eat any of these foods it would only be a very small amount ? a piece.*
> 
> *Snacks*
> 
> I eat fruit throughout the day and every day - loads of it - as well-spaced-out snacks - never as part of another meal apart from where shown above - I pick the smallest pieces of fruit that I can find and eat all the following every day usually sometimes more than one of each (but never at the same time) - apples, pears, satsumas, plums frequently - and occasionally, bananas, kiwis, peaches or grapes. I fill my pockets with fruit whenever I leave the house and eat it as I move about. However, a word of warning about fruit, quite a lot of people with diabetes tell me that fruit causes their blood glucose to rise to high levels so, if eating fruit, people need to test to establish what it does to their levels.
> 
> The rest of the time, I nibble at small portions of:
> 
> A small amount (around 20g) of mixed nuts and dried fruit - usually every day.
> 
> Low-fat yoghurts - most popular Muller Light but others too.
> 
> Low-fat cheese - with one or two oatcakes or Ryvita Thins.
> 
> Tesco Light cottage cheese with pineapple.
> 
> Oily fish - rich in omega-3 types - sardines, mackerels etc.
> 
> Pickles - beetroot, cucumber, onions, red cabbage etc.
> 
> Cherry tomatoes
> 
> Cold vegetables if there are any in the fridge.
> 
> Ice cream is just about my only weakness and very occasionally, I eat an ice cream cone. I stress very occasionally.
> 
> *In general, I never eat packets of crisps, buns, biscuits, sweets, chocolate, cake and suchlike on a regular basis. On vary rare occasions indeed, I might eat one biscuit or one small piece of chocolate ? I stress this would be on very rare occasions indeed. I might have a few crisps or small piece of cake or bun in a buffet situation.*
> 
> *Alcohol*
> 
> I used to drink a lot of alcohol but these days drink very little (about five units a week and certainly less than ten) - mainly the odd glass of red wine or sometimes a small whisky. Very rarely, I will have a little more red wine on a special occasion when out for the evening and I'm not driving. These days, I rarely ever drink alcohol in the house even though my wife and family do. I must say, it wasn't always like that!
> 
> *Other Drinks*
> 
> Various teas (spiced, earl gray, redbush etc, etc) and coffee (mainly decaffeinated but not always) all black with a sweetener - I try to vary the drinks depending on the time of day.
> 
> If I ever do use milk - e.g. with Lizi's granola or in drinks - it is always the 0.75% or 1% fat milk types.
> 
> I drink sparkling bottled water or just plain old simple tap water by the pint with my evening meal.
> 
> Very, very occasionally these days I might drink a Tango Zero or sometimes Tesco?s diet ginger beer.
> 
> *I never drink fruit juice or non-Zero drinks and only very rarely any beer or lager these days*
> 
> *Supplements*
> 
> I?ve never been a person for taking supplements but these days I?ve started to use the following on a daily basis:
> 
> - a multivitamin tablet once per day
> - an omega-3 one capsule once per day
> - an apple cider vinegar tablet last thing at night
> - Occasional, use of cinnamon (sprinkling on foods, in teas etc)
> 
> *Weight Loss & Exercise*
> 
> By the way, I'm still calorie counting because I still want to lose more than the 5 stone that I've lost already. I'm intent to take my BMI to below 25 - i.e. into the normal weight band - I'm almost at that stage with a BMI of around 28 - down from BMI 40. I might take it as low as a BMI of 22.5 - i.e. my supposed "ideal weight" as defined by the health people. These days I'm eating around 1,300 to 1,500 calories per day most days and occasionally (about once a week just a little more). Despite that, I never feel hungry!
> 
> I don't put very much of my improvement in blood glucose readings - if any at all - down to my loss in weight. Why not? Quite simply because the lowering of blood glucose levels came about immediately that I started to change my diet - i.e. in days or weeks. I say this because I found that I didn't have to wait until I'd lost a lot of weight before I got my improvement and that may help to motivate others who find losing weight to be difficult. In my opinion and in my case, I consider that it was the dietary change that was most important - i.e. mainly the cutting back dramatically on my starchy carbohydrate intake which led to my improvement.
> 
> In addition, I do very little exercise and when I do it's nothing other than just ordinary walking - just a very occasional two to three mile easy walking ? and nothing severe. I really ought to try to do much more exercise for my general health and well-being. The effect of exercise on lowering blood glucose levels is something that I?m trying to test out and experimenting with to try to establish how effective this might be in improving my control still further.
> 
> I think that covers just about everything. I hope that other people with non-insulin dependent Type 2 diabetes might find this detailed summary of my current eating habits useful and that my experience might be helpful to them in dealing with getting control of their own Type 2 situations.
> 
> If anyone has any further questions then feel free to get in touch.
> 
> Best wishes ? John



thank you john. it realy sounds like you've found the right diet for yourself well done .hope i can be as succesful as you .


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## wallycorker

johnsonhartley said:


> thank you john. it realy sounds like you've found the right diet for yourself well done .hope i can be as succesful as you .


Hi again johnsonhartley,

I hope that you will get things sorted quickly.

Good luck and best wishes - John


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## new kid on the block

*new kid on the block*

hi there i have been looking at your diet and i will try it, i know that people are different but until i try it i will not know, i need to loose 3 stone, and i am new to this diabetis i have only been dionosed 4 months so im still feeling my way around, and was looking for a diet, i do exercise already, thank you so much for sgaring this with us i for one will certainly try it and any other tips you my have thank you


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## wallycorker

Hi newkidontheblock,

I do hope that you will find my experience as outlined earlier in this thread useful.

However, I would point out that I think that it is very is important that you learn what different foods do to your own body> More than anything else that is what is important in dealing with individual situations.

More than anything else at all, I recommend to anyone with diabetes that they should start testing to find out what different foods do to their blood glucose levels and then adapt their own diet accordingly.

That approach certainly worked for me and I do expect that it will work for many Type 2s who have not already become dependent on insulin.

Good luck and best wishes - John


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## wallycorker

*"Stop the metformin - Come back in 3 months"*

Just updating on this thread, I've just been to see my GP to review my latest blood test results. 

He's agreed for me to stop taking the metformin altogether and go back to see him in 3 months. 

It makes what I've done over the last two years so worthwhile! What a result!

John


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## Northerner

That's great news John, well done!


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## Steff

Northerner said:


> That's great news John, well done!



Thats terrific news John a VERY big well done to you..


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## bev

Well done - you must be so pleased and proud of yourself.Bev


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## The Derisive One

That is a fantastic guide ... Thank's to who pointed it out to Fez!!


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## wallycorker

Northerner said:


> That's great news John, well done!


Thanks! I'm wanting to get off what's left of the simvastatin medication next! However, one step at a time!


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## Andy HB

Well done John! 

I found it much easier when I stopped taking metformin at the beginning of February this year (I was starting to forget to take the darned stuff!).

I would also like to take this opportunity to point out to anyone new to diabetes that metformin does have a secondary effect which is potentially helpful for diabetics. According to various studies, metformin does provide a statistically significant protection against heart disease, which is something that we have to be aware of when deciding to stop taking it.

According to the consultant that I've been seeing, the same applies to statins too.

Andy


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## wallycorker

Andy HB said:


> ...................I found it much easier when I stopped taking metformin at the beginning of February this year (I was starting to forget to take the darned stuff!).................


I never forget to take any of my medications. In my opinion, it's very important that people get into some system that avoids doing that. I use various cheap tablet dispensers that you can buy from the chemists shop which I use to set up the various tablets morning and night for the next seven days. Just by looking in that I can see which tablets have or have not been taken.


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## Andy HB

wallycorker said:


> I never forget to take any of my medications. In my opinion, it's very important that people get into some system that avoids doing that. I use various cheap tablet dispensers that you can buy from the chemists shop which I use to set up the various tablets morning and night for the next seven days. Just by looking in that I can see which tablets have or have not been taken.



There are some quite good ones around too. When I was unpacking various nick-nacks when I took my Father's stuff out of storage recently, I found one which has a tray for each day. You take the tray out of the bottom, swallow the pill(s) and then refill and put the tray in the top. Each tray is marked with the day and so you always know whether you've missed a day or not.

Of course, if you forget it for a week, you're in trouble! 

Andy


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## wallycorker

Andy HB said:


> .......There are some quite good ones around too.........


Well worth spending a couple of quid on in my opinion! There seems to be lots of choice in most chemists!


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## Carina1962

well done john for coming off the metformin and thanks Andy HB for pointing out about the benefits of metformin and statins, i didn't know about the metformin but had an inckling that statins are actually quite well approved by the medics.  I take simvastatin (40mg) and am quite lucky that i haven't had any awful side effects that some people seem to experience but i'm much happier taking it knowing that it is keeping my cholesterol in check as it was at a staggering 9.4 last year when i was diagnosed with diabetes.  If i'd carried on regardless who know what would have happened to me at that high level


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## wallycorker

Coming off the metformin hasn't made any difference so far - all eighteen of my readings since I saw the doctor last Monday have fallen within 4.0 & 7.7 mmol/L. 

My target range is 4.0 to 7.8 at all times - i.e. what I understand to be the normal range for non-diabetics.

I hope that things continue to go as well as they have been doing recently.

John


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## kukka

havent been able to read all the posts as my illness makes it difficult for me but i just wanted to say well done for the great conntrol you have and for coming of the metfomin

i hope your reading stay at that normal range and that your diet alone wil keep them fine for you


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## wallycorker

kukka said:


> havent been able to read all the posts as my illness makes it difficult for me but i just wanted to say well done for the great conntrol you have and for coming of the metfomin
> 
> i hope your reading stay at that normal range and that your diet alone wil keep them fine for you


Thanks kukka!

I suspect that I've reached a stage further on than just maintaining great control because it would seem that whatever I eat these days doesn't cause my blood glucose levels to soar. It would seem that my pancreas appears to have started working fairly normally again.

My target readings are almost always in the normal range of 4.0 to 7.8 mmol/L - i.e. 90% of the time with only the odd result flicking over the 7.8 target maximum level. All that is without any metformin whatsoever. 

These days, I seem to be a million miles away from ever needing to inject  insulin. However, only time will tell but I'm very happy indeed with the  seemingly complete reversal of my Type 2 diabetes ten years on since diagnosis.

Good luck and best wishes - John


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## MargB

Just catching up with this thread and delighted to see you have been able to come off the Metformin.  Well done.

You have inspired me and I think of this thread every time someone tells me that I should not be eating fruit.  

Have you changed anything since your first post?  Still into cauli mash, etc?

best wishes and well done again,
Margaret


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## wallycorker

MargB said:


> Just catching up with this thread and delighted to see you have been able to come off the Metformin.  Well done.
> 
> You have inspired me and I think of this thread every time someone tells me that I should not be eating fruit.
> 
> Have you changed anything since your first post?  Still into cauli mash, etc?
> 
> best wishes and well done again,
> Margaret


Thanks Margaret,

No - I haven't changed what I eat very much apart from the fact that I now find that I can tolerate more carbohydrate these days - even though I've been off metformin altogether for about four months now. 

These days, my blood glucose levels never hardly ever go above 7.8 one hour after finishing eating no matter what I eat within reason. In fact, my body seems to be behaving almost as though I don't have a diabetic problem at all.

Quite remarkable really considering that I was diagnosed over ten years ago and that my HbA1c was as high as 9.4% seven years ago.

I consider myself very lucky indeed.

Best wishes - John


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## wallycorker

A couple of foods here that I've found very useful for snacking on recently and eat on a regular basis:

a)  Finn Crisp wholegrain crackers - not too easy to find but you can buy them in Holland & Barrett - 4.2 gms of carbohydrate per slice.

b) Snackrite's hot salsa dip that can be bought at Aldi - 6g of carbohydrate per 100gms. M&S do a nice one too.


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## C*5_Dodger

*We are Different*



MargB said:


> Just catching up with this thread and delighted to see you have been able to come off the Metformin.  Well done.
> 
> You have inspired me and I think of this thread every time someone tells me that I should not be eating fruit.
> 
> Have you changed anything since your first post?  Still into cauli mash, etc?
> 
> best wishes and well done again,
> Margaret



Dear Margaret,

Whether you should be eating fruit or not should be determined by your blood glucose meter. Just because John can consume fruit does not mean that others can automatically do the same. He has found what works for him and has achieved fantastic results. I have achieved similar results but i had to forgo the pleasure of eating fruit and most other carbs.

Warmest Regards   Dodger


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## lucy123

wallycorker said:


> A couple of foods here that I've found very useful for snacking on recently and eat on a regular basis:
> 
> a)  Finn Crisp wholegrain crackers - not too easy to find but you can buy them in Holland & Barrett - 4.2 gms of carbohydrate per slice.
> 
> b) Snackrite's hot salsa dip that can be bought at Aldi - 6g of carbohydrate per 100gms. M&S do a nice one too.



Thanks John, nice to see you posting.


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