# Flora Heart Age calculator



## Northerner (Jan 5, 2010)

Hi, I wrote to Balance following the letter that appeared where someone had been upset by the fact that including diabetes meant that your 'heart age' was usually really scary and not taking the slightest account of keeping fit with good control, which is what we are supposed to do to keep our hearts healthy.

This is the response I got from Balance, which I find confusing still and was wondering if it's just me - they seem to be saying, yes it's true your heart is effectively damaged (as if you'd had a heart attack), but that good control will help reduce the risk of damaging your heart. I think it would be more useful if there was a study that could tell us what sort of control those that had died from heart attacks had had, as compared to those who hadn't. Shouldn't the message be 'Current figures show that most diabetics are dying of heart attacks. In the future, with better control, we can reverse that trend and get more diabetics NOT having heart attacks or CVD.'? I didn't find this encouraging at all.



> Dear Alan,
> 
> Thank you for your email to Balance magazine regarding the Flora Heart Age calculator; congratulations for sustaining such a high level of fitness.
> 
> ...



(Sorry this is so long-winded!)


----------



## Flower87 (Jan 5, 2010)

Wow... thats positive 

Hmmm not sure how i feel about that response from them!!

I'd be interested to know the age of these people in the statistics, are they under 60? 70?...100?.... at the end of the day, we all have to die of something. 

Obviously if they're all fairly young then that is very upsetting/shocking.

what joy....


----------



## Northerner (Jan 5, 2010)

This is the email I sent that they were responding to:



> Your response to the person complaining about the Flora Heart Age calculator ? to read the article on ?The Magic Numbers? ? doesn?t actually address the complaint Graham Crooks is making. I tried this myself back in September and wrote to Flora questioning why they asked about diabetes but did not take account in any way the level of control the person might have had, length of diagnosis etc. The response I received is below. What they are saying is that diabetic control has no bearing on heart age, not does level of fitness (I?ve been a marathon runner for 25 years). In my view, Flora should simply say that the calculator cannot be applied to people with diabetes. Implying that your heart is instantly compromised to a significant degree whether you strive for good control or not is demoralising ? after all, what?s the point of keeping the rest of you fit and healthy if your heart is going to fail you? The problem is tat many people, especially the newly-diagnosed, will find this distressing. Can Diabetes UK intervene to get Flora to correct this?


----------



## Flower87 (Jan 5, 2010)

So basically they're saying 'no we can't get involved, because half of what flora are saying is right' 
???

I've just entered my information in the flora thing and it's taking forever. 
It doesn't ask about exercise either...

I think DUK are a confused bunch!


----------



## Northerner (Jan 5, 2010)

I must admit that I'm none the wiser about the message we're supposed to take from all this! I suppose we should just try harder to stop having diabetes, that might improve our chances!


----------



## Einstein (Jan 5, 2010)

Northerner said:


> I must admit that I'm none the wiser about the message we're supposed to take from all this! I suppose we should just try harder to stop having diabetes, that might improve our chances!


 
Concise, clear, un-confused, ermm advice and opinion reflected by the people so many trust to represent them!

I think I'd be proud to write such a self negating, contradictory email 

How do I go about sending my diabetes back? I'm not worried about getting my money back, I've just decided after close on 10 years, it's not for me!


----------



## am64 (Jan 5, 2010)

do flora sponser any of DUK or advertise in Balance ???


----------



## Einstein (Jan 5, 2010)

am64 said:


> do flora sponser any of DUK or advertise in Balance ???


 
Don't think so, but DUK probably are nervous because it's still the Flora London marathon isn't it? And DUK depends on that event for a lot of sponsorship and the charity places are like rocking horse dung to obtain...

Failing that Flora are bigger than any of us!


----------



## RachelT (Jan 5, 2010)

*Where's my returns coupon?*

LOL.Hey, Einstein, when you find out how to send your diabetes back can you post the details? I love it......
I was reading today in our hospital staff newsletter (ok, i was looking at the pictures mostly) and it mentioned something about "lifestyle diseases" and how they were on the increase. I'm assuming this covers heart disease and diabetes (type two anyway...)Does that mean that being diabetic is like being really keen on recycling or only eating organic food or maxing out your credit card all the time?
(deleted rant about how the media seems to think you only get diabetes from being a slob....it was only getting me down....)
Anyway, i did that flora thing and apparently my heart is somewhat older than my parents... Don;t, whatever you do, admit to being on meds for blood pressure or cholesterol and not know what your levels are.... As Frazer from Dad's Army would say...."i'm doooomed"


----------



## RachelT (Jan 5, 2010)

ok, i was slightly more optimistic about my waist size...i got it down to 53. Still, that didn't seem to care what my cholesterol or blood pressure were, just that i'm diabetic and a tad overweight. Does everybody have a 20 year discrepancy? I'm curious.
Also, i noticed that the solution to this bizzare condition was to....wait for it.... eat more flora products!!!! Guys, if we eat lot of flora products maybe that will cure our diabetes!


----------



## Northerner (Jan 5, 2010)

RachelT said:


> ... As Frazer from Dad's Army would say...."i'm doooomed"









'We're aaaaaallllll dooooomed!'

Two organisations supposedly promoting health and fitness have had the effect of making me thoroughly pessimistic about my future...


(but not for long!)


----------



## Einstein (Jan 5, 2010)

Well, my heart age is 'only' 5 years older than me...

However, it doesn't ask about autonomic neuropathy


----------



## Carina1962 (Jan 5, 2010)

I'm 47 and got heart age of 67.  Will try again in 6 months time when hopefully i will have lost more weight and see what it comes up with.


----------



## Peter C (Jan 6, 2010)

Northerner said:


> 'We're aaaaaallllll dooooomed!'
> 
> Two organisations supposedly promoting health and fitness have had the effect of making me thoroughly pessimistic about my future...
> 
> ...



Hi there,
There is, possibly, a sense in which good control might actually increase a diabetic's chances of (eventually) dying of cvd - if good control knocks out the likelihood of the OTHER complications for example. Presumably a well controlled T1 reduces the risk of dying of DKA and Dead-in-bed Syndrome and so increases the long term risk of dying of cvd ?


----------



## Northerner (Jan 6, 2010)

Peter C said:


> Hi there,
> There is, possibly, a sense in which good control might actually increase a diabetic's chances of (eventually) dying of cvd - if good control knocks out the likelihood of the OTHER complications for example. Presumably a well controlled T1 reduces the risk of dying of DKA and Dead-in-bed Syndrome and so increases the long term risk of dying of cvd ?



That's one way of looking at it Peter - that the CV system is the last thing to go! It does annoy me though that silly tests and statistics imply that my heart is ten to fifteen years older than me, when the heart surgeon said my arteries were 'pristine' and I have a resting HR of around 45 bpm. I would say one thing though, I've felt a lot more 'mortal' since diagnosis.


----------



## Peter C (Jan 6, 2010)

Northerner said:


> That's one way of looking at it Peter - that the CV system is the last thing to go! It does annoy me though that silly tests and statistics imply that my heart is ten to fifteen years older than me, when the heart surgeon said my arteries were 'pristine' and I have a resting HR of around 45 bpm. I would say one thing though, I've felt a lot more 'mortal' since diagnosis.



I did a Nintendo Brain Age test on one of those games thingies. It said my "Brain Age" was 20 years younger than my chrono age. I am not doing it again - it might have been a fluke.


----------



## Einstein (Jan 6, 2010)

Peter C said:


> I did a Nintendo Brain Age test on one of those games thingies. It said my "Brain Age" was 20 years younger than my chrono age. I am not doing it again - it might have been a fluke.


 
I have one of those things, bought it for the brain draining - not sure if it's better to be younger or older mentally


----------



## SacredHeart (Jan 6, 2010)

I just tried it. I told them that I did have diabetes, and got aged 32 ( 8 years older than me)
and without telling them I had diabetes, I was aged 25! So a supposed difference of just one year has suddenly earned me an additional 7, despite the fact my blood pressure and cholesterol levels are fairly awesome, and I exercise every day?! What?!


----------



## Admin (Jan 6, 2010)

*Don't make diabetes the scapegoat!*

Personally I really object to diabetes being blamed for a whole host of problems - I think that if you have developed diabetes as a result of an unhealthy lifestyle - which can happen - and don't all shout me down for this - then conditions also associated with an unhealthy lifestyle also happen to you - they are not a result of your diabetes - they are a result of an unhealthy lifestyle.

Blaming diabetes for everything is not fair and in my opinion - wrong.


----------



## SacredHeart (Jan 6, 2010)

I personally agree with you! I don't think that anyone would argue that you CAN develop T2 as a result of an unhealthy lifestyle. The problem is when the automatic assumption is made that that's the ONLY reason you can develop it. At least in my mind


----------



## Steff (Jan 6, 2010)

I agree I do get miffed when I hear its from an unhealthy lifestyle, im the one and only person in my whole family that is type 2 and i cant say i lived an unheatly lifesyle.


----------



## Northerner (Jan 6, 2010)

I was diagnosed a week before I was due to run a marathon. I was considerably fitter and healthier than most of my contemporaries, and remain so even though I now have diabetes. To suggest that I am suddenly at some hugely increased risk of CVD is a complete distortion of statistics. I may be more at risk than marathon running 51 year olds without diabetes, but not the general 51 year old male population. I thumb my nose at the Flora Heart Age calculator, and emit a rude noise in their general direction


----------



## am64 (Jan 6, 2010)

i tried it last time we talked about this and it was BAD so i tried again changing weight/grith/height and it still said i was DOOOOMED....


----------



## Einstein (Jan 6, 2010)

Admin said:


> Personally I really object to diabetes being blamed for a whole host of problems - I think that if you have developed diabetes as a result of an unhealthy lifestyle - which can happen - and don't all shout me down for this - then conditions also associated with an unhealthy lifestyle also happen to you - they are not a result of your diabetes - they are a result of an unhealthy lifestyle.
> 
> Blaming diabetes for everything is not fair and in my opinion - wrong.


 
I agree and think in so many ways we then further sit on a double edged sword. As we then enter into a routine of six or twelve monthly screening for 'everything' which non-diabetics aren't screened for, especially HbA1C and lipids there is a picture of our condition over the years.

Lipids and circulation problems (perhaps blood, perhaps nerve) are then all acted upon much earlier than non-diabetics. So we get identified and then treated much earlier because we're diabetics and screened.

It's rather like the screening for prostate cancer, men under 50 rarely get it. Why? Because they only start screening at 50. In research of 30 to 50 year old males, the emphasis being more 35 to 45 age range there was a high percentage of males in their early 40's having prostate cancer.

If you don't look for a condition it doesn't mean it's not there, it just means you either live or die in ignorance or it's discovered later in it's development, which may mean the treatment options are limited or non-existent.

It's the same argument for diabetic screening of the whole population, if we knew every diabetic or at risk diabetic at one point in time and were then treating them the budget of the NHS in it's current model would implode. So we don't screen everyone. Only the people who show symptoms or are in an at risk category.

Why bother?


----------



## LisaLQ (Jan 6, 2010)

I lied about my weight a little bit, and still came out 20 years older.

Must...lie....harder...


----------



## Peter C (Jan 6, 2010)

Northerner said:


> I was diagnosed a week before I was due to run a marathon. I was considerably fitter and healthier than most of my contemporaries, and remain so even though I now have diabetes. To suggest that I am suddenly at some hugely increased risk of CVD is a complete distortion of statistics. I may be more at risk than marathon running 51 year olds without diabetes, but not the general 51 year old male population. I thumb my nose at the Flora Heart Age calculator, and emit a rude noise in their general direction



Well as far as T2 diabetes goes, the macro and micro vascular problems/risks it causes are so evident that T2 diabetes is effectively treated as a sub-species of heart disease to all intents and purposes. As one eminent diabetologist recently said, being diagnosed with T2 diabetes is the equivalent of having had your first heart attack. Dunno about T1 though.


----------



## Northerner (Jan 6, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> I lied about my weight a little bit, and still came out 20 years older.
> 
> Must...lie....harder...



Perhaps we could have a competition to see who can lie the best to get their heart to be the same as your actual age!


----------



## rossi_mac (Jan 6, 2010)

Northerner said:


> Perhaps we could have a competition to see who can lie the best to get their heart to be the same as your actual age!



Sounds good, where's the link? but I guess we should still tell them were doomed with the self inflicted disease diabetes?


----------



## Northerner (Jan 6, 2010)

rossi_mac said:


> Sounds good, where's the link? but I guess we should still tell them were doomed with the self inflicted disease diabetes?



https://www.heartagecalculator.com/HeartHealth/HeartAgeCalculator.aspx?hostID=1528


----------



## SilentAssassin1642 (Jan 6, 2010)

mine says I'm 22  which is ok, cuz i'm 22 this year!


----------



## Vanessa (Jan 6, 2010)

Well, without lying then my heart is only two years older than the rest of me! Tiny bit of manipulation around BP and weight and my heart became younger than the rest of me despite the diabetes - barking or what?


----------



## SacredHeart (Jan 6, 2010)

If I told them I didn't have diabetes, I got 25, which is fine, because I'm 25 in March anyway, lol


----------



## rossi_mac (Jan 6, 2010)

If I tell the truth I'm 6 years closer to the end, but if I just take out the diabetes it's bang on !?

I think I remember doing it before and was more like 10 years older?

Best avoid this kinda stuff I think!


----------



## rachelha (Jan 6, 2010)

I just tried it.  I am 35, if I put in the diabetes it comes out as 45!!!  If I don't say I am diabetic it says 34.  

11 years difference for being diabetic, but no questions about how long you have been diabetic or your control - what a load of rubbish.


----------



## Northerner (Jan 6, 2010)

Just tried it again lying about everything (giving optimal answers) except diabetes. Seems there's no way I can avoid my heart giving up 7 years before the rest of me...

I only revived this topic because it had been mentioned in Balance, but am totally convinced of how useless it is to diabetics who should simply be excluded if the box is ticked. Withput fail, it is bound to be demoralising, maybe even distressing. We're treating it light-heartedly (!!!) but some might actually be depressed about it, unnecessarily. Even if you accept the statistic that half of diabetics die of CVD, half of them don't. My glass is half full!


----------



## LisaLQ (Jan 6, 2010)

I think if I'd answered truthfully, my result would have been "best get a tape measure and order a coffin".

I dont know what my waist measurement is.  Somewhere between "omg is there even a measurement for this?" and "step away from the pie!" 

I took 5kgs off my last weigh in too...


----------



## cazscot (Jan 6, 2010)

Just done mine and I have the heart of a 58 year old which is a bit depressing as I am 38...  And that is me after loosing 3st wonder what it would have been when I was even heavier.    But I am not going to worry about it, as others have said it is obviously flawed.


----------



## karinagal (Jan 6, 2010)

*Ahm no playin'....*

My heart age is 67 - 20 years older than me.... It was nice knowing y'all, guess I should be putting my affairs in order!!

Karina


----------



## RachelT (Jan 6, 2010)

I'm sympathetic...trust me. However i just did a dumb quiz on facebook about "body age" and got 31, which is much better than 53 (or 58? i can't remember) but that didn't ask me about diabetes...Hehehe I'm suprised the Flora page didn't redirect me to a life insurance policy offer...or www.organise_your_own_funeral.com... Still, Corp Frazer's my man!!! heheheh


----------



## Peter C (Jan 6, 2010)

RachelT said:


> diabetes...Hehehe I'm suprised the Flora page didn't redirect me to a life insurance policy offer...or www.organise_your_own_funeral.com... Still, Corp Frazer's my man!!! heheheh



Life insurance with diabetes - you'll be lucky or they would load it


----------



## Northerner (Jan 6, 2010)

I've decided to eat a pound of Flora a day - within a month I'll be 21 again!


----------



## Einstein (Jan 6, 2010)

Peter C said:


> Life insurance with diabetes - you'll be lucky or they would load it


 
It's *LOADED* by at least 8 years! And that was four years ago, probably banking on me being in my wooden overcoat next week by now


----------



## Einstein (Jan 6, 2010)

Northerner said:


> I've decided to eat a pound of Flora a day - within a month I'll be 21 again!


 
Yes, I wondered how much you needed to consume to be healthy again. Surely consuming none of the stuff is the healthiest option


----------

