# Are we going to get a 'pudding tax'?



## Northerner (Jan 2, 2019)

After a Christmas of over-indulgence for many, the idea of a "pudding tax" may seem like a good idea.

Public health experts have suggested it may be needed to tackle the high rates of sugar consumption.

By the age of 10, the average child has exceeded the recommended level of sugar intake for an 18-year-old.

The news prompted Public Health England chief nutritionist Dr Alison Tedstone to suggest there may be a case for introducing a sugar tax on puddings.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-46736124


----------



## Madeline (Jan 2, 2019)

People need to be taught how to plan a balanced meal and cook properly. Honestly, the rubbish my two were taught in school, it’s a good thing I taught them. When we were looking round schools when we moved I remember one HT proudly telling them my youngest that her year were making sandwiches this term. Sandwiches. Not making the bread etc, slapping a bit of cheese and tomato inside two slices of shop bought bread, and cutting it. With a _knife_. She was FOURTEEN! And had been able to cook a full roast dinner and bake for years. 

That and making basic ingredients more appealing (cheaper?) than ping meals.

I was taught how to plan a balanced meal, how to meal plan for a weekly balanced diet, how to cook from scratch. None of that seems to happen now, it’s all about designing a face on a shop bought pizza base.


----------



## travellor (Jan 2, 2019)

Madeline said:


> People need to be taught how to plan a balanced meal and cook properly. Honestly, the rubbish my two were taught in school, it’s a good thing I taught them. When we were looking round schools when we moved I remember one HT proudly telling them my youngest that her year were making sandwiches this term. Sandwiches. Not making the bread etc, slapping a bit of cheese and tomato inside two slices of shop bought bread, and cutting it. With a _knife_. She was FOURTEEN! And had been able to cook a full roast dinner and bake for years.
> 
> That and making basic ingredients more appealing (cheaper?) than ping meals.
> 
> I was taught how to plan a balanced meal, how to meal plan for a weekly balanced diet, how to cook from scratch. None of that seems to happen now, it’s all about designing a face on a shop bought pizza base.



That's more a sad reflection on parents now.
The chip shop and turkey twizzler generation, so we are having to teach kids tomato goes with cheese, and how to make a better sandwich.
This is what the NHS has to try to beat every day as well.
If we can teach kids not to eat pure sugar, that's a win now.
Sad.


----------



## Madeline (Jan 2, 2019)

travellor said:


> That's more a sad reflection on parents now.
> The chip shop and turkey twizzler generation, so we are having to teach kids tomato goes with cheese, and how to make a better sandwich.
> This is what the NHS has to try to beat every day as well.
> If we can teach kids not to eat pure sugar, that's a win now.
> Sad.


I don’t disagree, but sadly today’s young parents are mostly the ones who have missed out and cannot pass on the knowledge. That, and a combination of why bother, when a packet can do it so much quicker and easier.


----------



## travellor (Jan 2, 2019)

Madeline said:


> I don’t disagree, but sadly today’s young parents are mostly the ones who have missed out and cannot pass on the knowledge. That, and a combination of why bother, when a packet can do it so much quicker and easier.



What's the way forward?
My kids can cook, but their mum encourages cakes and sweets.
She's educated as well.
It's not a good situation, it needs a punitive response, sugar tax seems to be the way forward.


----------



## Madeline (Jan 2, 2019)

I can’t see any other way - the only thing that will work is making unhealthy food expensive, but we do need to ensure that we teach people how to cook and pass that knowledge on. It’s going to take a specific effort now, there’s such huge gaps. Fifty plus years ago the knowledge, for example, of how to preserve food like pickling and jamming was widespread and something passed on. Now it’s an indulgence for most, something looked upon as a fun hobby, rather than a means to an end. Nutritious food can be cheap and delicious, but it requires effort and ability, we need to give that back to people. It’s going to have to be schools, too many parents simply don’t know how.


----------



## silentsquirrel (Jan 2, 2019)

The "design a sandwich/pizza" came from changes to the curriculum, when Domestic Science (Cookery) was pushed under the umbrella of Design and Technology.  Useful cookery was moved to Catering which was more vocational based than expected to be useful for home cooking.


----------



## travellor (Jan 2, 2019)

Madeline said:


> I can’t see any other way - the only thing that will work is making unhealthy food expensive, but we do need to ensure that we teach people how to cook and pass that knowledge on. It’s going to take a specific effort now, there’s such huge gaps. Fifty plus years ago the knowledge, for example, of how to preserve food like pickling and jamming was widespread and something passed on. Now it’s an indulgence for most, something looked upon as a fun hobby, rather than a means to an end. Nutritious food can be cheap and delicious, but it requires effort and ability, we need to give that back to people. It’s going to have to be schools, too many parents simply don’t know how.



Schools can't parent for us.
Making a jar of pickles, or a pot of jam is a full afternoon.
(Ignoring if a pot of sugary jam is good or not)

That was in the old days, when a woman was in the kitchen 24/7 as well.
I make jam now, (sugar free, goes off quickly)

The world has changed.
My girls work, order jam off Amazon, and expect it next day.
We can't roll back.

We need to find a way to go forward, and accept we need to tax an order that the drone delivers to us, to point us to order healthy food.


----------



## Madeline (Jan 2, 2019)

Jam and pickling was simply an example of lost skills. I’m not saying schools could or should parent for us. I’m saying that there’s a generation or so that simply doesn’t have the knowledge to pass on. That needs changing, and the best way to do that is to engage kids right from the start, by teaching life skills. If parents cannot, or will not, someone has to, and schools are the obvious choice. I can’t actually think of a viable alternative.

No point in taxing unhealthy food unless you give people the means to create the alternatives.


----------



## Bruce Stephens (Jan 2, 2019)

Madeline said:


> No point in taxing unhealthy food unless you give people the means to create the alternatives.



Agreed, but it's not just knowledge. It's time, money, habit. We surely can't (and shouldn't want to) go back to society a few decades ago, but trying to fix today's food without some radical changes to other things seems to me to be doomed to fail. So we need to create a new environment where all (or as many as possible) can eat better food. (By better I'd include better for the environment, more interesting and fulfilling, as well as just "healthier".)

Obviously what we'll actually get is a scattering of taxes together with victim-blaming.


----------



## Madeline (Jan 2, 2019)

What we will get is taxes that benefit the government’s cronies, more expensive food, and no tangible benefits at all for those who need them most.


----------



## travellor (Jan 2, 2019)

Madeline said:


> Jam and pickling was simply an example of lost skills. I’m not saying schools could or should parent for us. I’m saying that there’s a generation or so that simply doesn’t have the knowledge to pass on. That needs changing, and the best way to do that is to engage kids right from the start, by teaching life skills. If parents cannot, or will not, someone has to, and schools are the obvious choice. I can’t actually think of a viable alternative.
> 
> No point in taxing unhealthy food unless you give people the means to create the alternatives.



Schools teach life skills.
What are they?

In my day, it wasn't playing the stock market.
PE meant nothing.
Rugby was important.
No offence, but at my school, girls cooked.

Now, I'm a stunning cook
But I also can see a good PE ratio.

What do we need our schools to teach?

Schools are expected to nappy train now.

That's a come down from when  was there.

We really need to focus on our kids, ourselves, and not pass on what we expect our legacy to be.


----------



## Madeline (Jan 2, 2019)

Time - I used to cook from scratch every night after a 1.5 hour commute home from central London. It doesn’t take long, you can pull together a cheap and balanced meal in 30 minutes, or use a slow cooker, or batch cook.

Money - again, it doesn’t have to be expensive, but you do need to know _how_ to cook those cheaper ingredients - cheaper cuts of meat, lentils, vegetables, that sort of thing. It’s easy enough to cook something so it’s edible, it’s the cooking of something so you enjoy it as well. 

Habit - this I think is at the heart of the problem. We simply don’t cook properly any more, not the simple and quick meals that would be a viable alternative to throwing a ready meal in the microwave. Neither do we engage our children. We need to, it’s not too late.


----------



## travellor (Jan 2, 2019)

Madeline said:


> Time - I used to cook from scratch every night after a 1.5 hour commute home from central London. It doesn’t take long, you can pull together a cheap and balanced meal in 30 minutes, or use a slow cooker, or batch cook.
> 
> Money - again, it doesn’t have to be expensive, but you do need to know _how_ to cook those cheaper ingredients - cheaper cuts of meat, lentils, vegetables, that sort of thing. It’s easy enough to cook something so it’s edible, it’s the cooking of something so you enjoy it as well.
> 
> Habit - this I think is at the heart of the problem. We simply don’t cook properly any more, not the simple and quick meals that would be a viable alternative to throwing a ready meal in the microwave. Neither do we engage our children. We need to, it’s not too late.



I couldn't agree more.
I pride myself on cooking from scratch, and nothing at all gets binned at the end of the week.
We seem to be a rare few though.


----------



## Madeline (Jan 2, 2019)

Life skills: Cooking, first aid, looking after a home, basic diy, woodwork, metalwork. All these things parents SHOULD know, but don’t any more. Someone has to teach these things if the parents can’t - and the reason they can’t is because those subjects were either stopped, amalgamated, or dumbed down at school. 

These are all basic knowledge things everyone should have, and did have, the chance to learn, the only difference is everyone should learn them, rather than it being segregated.


----------



## Madeline (Jan 2, 2019)

travellor said:


> I couldn't agree more.
> I pride myself on cooking from scratch, and nothing at all gets binned at the end of the week.
> We seem to be a rare few though.


Needs to be all of us. Not the rare few.


----------



## Bruce Stephens (Jan 2, 2019)

Madeline said:


> What we will get is taxes that benefit the government’s cronies, more expensive food, and no tangible benefits at all for those who need them most.



I'm willing to believe there'll be some taxes that big companies won't like. But I'm sure we won't see proper food being cooked in schools for pupils to eat.

It also seems certain that (as Sheila Dillon noted on the news this evening) we'll continue to have working people so poor they rely on food banks. (And, of course, many people being stuck in places without cooking equipment anyway.)

But sure, let's have pudding taxes, and have cooking leaflets in GP surgeries. I'm sure it's just lack of education (seems hard to find a time in the day when there isn't a cooking show on TV nowadays, often as not aimed at beginners).


----------



## Robin (Jan 2, 2019)

Madeline said:


> Needs to be all of us. Not the rare few.


I've just watched a Tom Kerridge programme on BBC2, aimed at getting people who have never cooked to try cooking simple, healthy unfussy meals from scratch and involving the whole family. Of course, the 'guinea pigs' on the programme were people who wanted to learn, but it’s a start...
When my son did 'food tech' at school, I remember one of the projects was to design a cold dessert suitable for a ready made chiller cabinet selection at a supermarket. they had to take into account shelf life, appearance, etc etc. Luckily, a new head started, and managed to find a more practical syllabus which involved teaching the kids to cook something Useful!


----------



## Matt Cycle (Jan 2, 2019)

What?!?!  Next thing it'll be like rationing and we'll be issued with vouchers for what we're allowed to eat.  Why should everyone be penalised because some people can't control what they shove in their gobs.


----------



## HOBIE (Jan 2, 2019)

Something has to change. The hole world needs to do something. A bag of sugar in most supermarket food ?


----------



## Madeline (Jan 2, 2019)

What if they tax Jelly Babies? What will we dooooooooooo?


----------



## trophywench (Jan 2, 2019)

There we were at a relative's house this afternoon - we'd all been out to lunch, but only had a main course.  We got back and my sister in law put the kettle on and produced a Tarte au Citron and also from M&S a squeezy bottle of lemon, gin & tonic sauce. That actually sounds gorgeous, but on tarte au citron?   Nooooooo - it's already mega sweet and exceedingly lemony, quite tart in fact as well as tarte!  I read the label and there would have been 15g carb in a single serving - already 29 point something grams in the tarte.  Then she got the pouring cream out.  OMG.

I know it's Xmas, but.  Many years ago before they moved to Skegness we dropped in one Saturday morning and they'd not long come back from shopping.  They'd bought some iced buns so offered us one with our cup of coffee.  I've never liked them - they're just sweet and rather boring to eat in my book, even before diabetes struck.  Pete said Yes please - and then she said We have ours buttered, do you want yours the same?  I had to bite my tongue I'm afraid …….

Sorry - I'm not a killjoy, honest I'm not - but of you need to split and butter something or pour gooey sauce and cream on it - when not buy something more interesting in the first place? - or make it yourself, cos yes she cooks from scratch and she's both a good cook and baker.

Why gild the gingerbread when on it's own it's so blooming gorgeous anyway.   Savour every 'naked' mouthful !  Save the sauce and cream to liven something boring up instead!

Both Pete's daughters and most of our grandchildren can cook, I'm pleased to say.  Two, with children of their own don't seem to bother so at least 3 of the 'greats' aren't going to learn, are they?  Especially as they each live quite a way away from their mothers.  The other one will, I imagine, because both her mum and her mum's mum - are trained chefs!


----------



## mikeyB (Jan 3, 2019)

Taxing won’t help. It’s parenting. My grandson eats a couple of weetabix for brekkie, which is low on sugar, without adding any sugar. He likes porridge, too. Again, no sugar. He drinks only water or milk. He declines offered sweets. He is the only kid at birthday parties that isn’t drinking fizz or juice. This isn’t strict training, it’s all he’s ever known, and he’s a happy little soul. My dog stole my jelly babies. He doesn’t.


----------



## Ljc (Jan 3, 2019)

I agree it’s down to parenting.  It is a crying shame that so many people now  lack the skill or the time to cook from scratch, it also works out a cheaper as well as healthier. 

I like many of you on here I watched with interest as mum prepared  and cooked meals and cakes.  O the anticipation of licking the bowl clean.   when she deemed I was old enough I was asked to help her peel and chop some veg . It might have been a potato, a handful of greens or a carrot, this carried on till I could cook a dinner at around 7-8 years old. However mum only  worked part time or did early morning office  cleaning , so she  had the time as well as the willingness to teach me .  My dad taught me various diy things by the same method.

A bottle of pop was a rare treat,  I was allowed sweets but only a small amount and mum controlled the portion sizes of my meals and snacks .

In school we had a double lesson a week domestic science , we were taught how to make bread, stews , prepair veg  , biscuits and much much more.


----------

