# How do I keep REGULAR.......now I dont eat porridge , bran and jacket potatoes ?



## Taffyboyslim (Sep 19, 2022)

I had to take some fybogel two days ago ! 

Prunes ? ?


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## Lucyr (Sep 19, 2022)

If you’re eating plenty of veg, at least half your plate per meal, you should still be getting plenty of fibre. What kind of foods are you eating?


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## barrym (Sep 19, 2022)

Try greek style yoghurt. NOT low fat. 100g every day for a week or two.


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## Drummer (Sep 19, 2022)

When you stop eating the high carb fibre containing foods then there is simply less to get rid of - no need to panic. Just let nature take its course.


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## 42istheanswer (Sep 19, 2022)

If you are having actually hard stools, then consider 

a) how much you're drinking - if you don't drink enough fluid your intestines will absorb more from the stool

b) are you having enough veg and a variety of them

If you think both are OK, there are still things you can take that are dietary supplements but low carb, like psyllium husk. Even taking actual wheat bran should be OK if you aren't intolerant of wheat - it's only about 18g carbs per 100g and most people who take it as a supplement take a couple of tablespoons a day. 

Prunes are very high in sugar, like most dried fruit, and total 63g carbohydrate per 100g.


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## Barrowman (Sep 19, 2022)

No porridge!! I cannot do without my 10g of porridge made with semi-skimmed milk with a few crushed walnuts and a sprinkling of sultanas. That would be the end of life as we know it - well for me anyway.


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## Sharron1 (Sep 19, 2022)

Barrowman said:


> No porridge!! I cannot do without my 10g of porridge made with semi-skimmed milk with a few crushed walnuts and a sprinkling of sultanas. That would be the end of life as we know it - well for me anyway.


When my GP told me to ditch the porridge. I simply said ok and in my head I decided there must be a way i can eat the stuff. I found a way tested, it for a while. All good.  Four years later tested today and it returned a beautiful 5. I have a sachet of porridge  daily approx 16 carbs. Fills me up for hours. Yum


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## Taffyboyslim (Sep 19, 2022)

Lucyr said:


> If you’re eating plenty of veg, at least half your plate per meal, you should still be getting plenty of fibre. What kind of foods are you eating?


Spinach , salads , veggie soup .......without potatoes and parsnips .......


Barrowman said:


> No porridge!! I cannot do without my 10g of porridge made with semi-skimmed milk with a few crushed walnuts and a sprinkling of sultanas. That would be the end of life as we know it - well for me anyway.


I feel your pain


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## Taffyboyslim (Sep 19, 2022)

Sharron1 said:


> When my GP told me to ditch the porridge. I simply said ok and in my head I decided there must be a way i can eat the stuff. I found a way tested, it for a while. All good.  Four years later tested today and it returned a beautiful 5. I have a sachet of porridge  daily approx 16 carbs. Fills me up for hours. Yum


Have you had medication to reduce your levels ?


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## Taffyboyslim (Sep 19, 2022)

42istheanswer said:


> If you are having actually hard stools, then consider
> 
> a) how much you're drinking - if you don't drink enough fluid your intestines will absorb more from the stool
> 
> ...


No prunes then


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## Sharron1 (Sep 19, 2022)

Taffyboyslim said:


> Have you had medication to reduce your levels ?


The usual metformin.


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## rebrascora (Sep 20, 2022)

I use a fibre drink and it is just a part of my daily routine. I suffered badly with constipation when I gave up bread (I always ate wholemeal) and porridge and potatoes. I now have a mix of psyllium husk and chia seeds in a drink on a morning before my coffee and breakfast and my bowel is the happiest it has been pretty well all my life. I see no reason not to continue with this routine and I feel that the soluble fibre from the chia and psyllium may have benefits with regard to cholesterol as well as being low carb. 
A mentioned prunes (like all dried fruit) are high carb so not a good solution. Psyllium and chia are pretty much carb free. You can also get oat bran instead of wheat bran suggested by someone else but it does still contain a moderate level of carbs but you don't need much and could sprinkle it in soups and stews as a thickener..... but then you can do that with psyllium husk or chia seeds with no extra carbs.


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## Taffyboyslim (Sep 20, 2022)

Sharron1 said:


> The usual metformin.


I have been reduced from 3 to 2 a day , couldn't deal with the side effects


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## Taffyboyslim (Sep 20, 2022)

rebrascora said:


> I use a fibre drink and it is just a part of my daily routine. I suffered badly with constipation when I gave up bread (I always ate wholemeal) and porridge and potatoes. I now have a mix of psyllium husk and chia seeds in a drink on a morning before my coffee and breakfast and my bowel is the happiest it has been pretty well all my life. I see no reason not to continue with this routine and I feel that the soluble fibre from the chia and psyllium may have benefits with regard to cholesterol as well as being low carb.
> A mentioned prunes (like all dried fruit) are high carb so not a good solution. Psyllium and chia are pretty much carb free. You can also get oat bran instead of wheat bran suggested by someone else but it does still contain a moderate level of carbs but you don't need much and could sprinkle it in soups and stews as a thickener..... but then you can do that with psyllium husk or chia seeds with no extra carbs.


I will try the supplements you suggested . Thank you .


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## rebrascora (Sep 20, 2022)

Taffyboyslim said:


> I will try the supplements you suggested . Thank you .


Psyllium is the same active ingredient as in Fibogel, but i am not sure if there are any carbs in the flavouring with Fibogel.... it should say on the packaging. The chia seeds have added benefits as they are high in Omega 3 fatty acids which are what make oily fish so good for us..... but not being a great fan of fish myself, I don't eat a lot, so the chia seeds provide some of those nutritional benefits that I am not getting from regular fish consumption. They also don't taste yuk like cod liver oil! (Green faced puking emoji)


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## Sharron1 (Sep 20, 2022)

Taffyboyslim said:


> I have been reduced from 3 to 2 a day , couldn't deal with the side effects


I did have a few of the usual side effects at the beginning but am not so savvy with all this stuff and assumed it was to do with my new diet... learnt from this forum it was  the metformin.It cleared up after a couple of weeks.


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## Purls of Wisdom (Sep 20, 2022)

Sharron1 said:


> When my GP told me to ditch the porridge. I simply said ok and in my head I decided there must be a way i can eat the stuff. I found a way tested, it for a while. All good.  Four years later tested today and it returned a beautiful 5. I have a sachet of porridge  daily approx 16 carbs. Fills me up for hours. Yum


Can't say that I am not partial to porridge myself. Tried overnight Steel cut porridge, not an avid fan yet.  Anyone eats Weetabix out there?


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## Taffyboyslim (Sep 21, 2022)

Purls of Wisdom said:


> Can't say that I am not partial to porridge myself. Tried overnight Steel cut porridge, not an avid fan yet.  Anyone eats Weetabix out there?


Yes I do 

I prefer porridge though


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## snowball12 (Sep 21, 2022)

rebrascora said:


> I use a fibre drink and it is just a part of my daily routine. I suffered badly with constipation when I gave up bread (I always ate wholemeal) and porridge and potatoes. I now have a mix of psyllium husk and chia seeds in a drink on a morning before my coffee and breakfast and my bowel is the happiest it has been pretty well all my life. I see no reason not to continue with this routine and I feel that the soluble fibre from the chia and psyllium may have benefits with regard to cholesterol as well as being low carb.
> A mentioned prunes (like all dried fruit) are high carb so not a good solution. Psyllium and chia are pretty much carb free. You can also get oat bran instead of wheat bran suggested by someone else but it does still contain a moderate level of carbs but you don't need much and could sprinkle it in soups and stews as a thickener..... but then you can do that with psyllium husk or chia seeds with no extra carbs.


What do you eat instead of bread, porridge and potatoes? I would starve


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## snowball12 (Sep 21, 2022)

Taffyboyslim said:


> Yes I do
> 
> I prefer porridge though


I eat Oatibix and porridge


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## Purls of Wisdom (Sep 21, 2022)

It is becoming a bit of psychological problem for me. I look for diabetes friendly food. Initially I thought weetabix or Quakers Oats are OK. Then so called well wishers tell me that Weetabix or Quakers oats are not good for me. Weetabix contains sugar, you know. Frustratedly I think, great, one more thing off the list, which I liked.  Now what? Can I eat anything guiltfree? The list is limited as it is. I ve tried overnight Oats, they are OK but not my first choice.

Lately I've been feeling poorly. Lost my appetite. No food. No NR. No high BG levels. Suddenly I ended up in the hospital with high Ketones. Lack of food in the system, I was told. 

Being a mental heath sufferer for years and on meds, giving up food comes easy to me. My coping machanism i guess. 

Now I do not feel like eating. I know I need to eat to stay alive but to eat what. Without being forced and causing hyper readings. 

Sorry I am babbling, hope i am making little sense. 

Thanking you. X


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## Purls of Wisdom (Sep 21, 2022)

snowball12 said:


> What do you eat instead of bread, porridge and potatoes? I would starve


My thoughts exactly. I do not eat potatoes, pasta or rice. It has not been easy. But without bread, Oats and WM chapattis ... I do not think I can survive.


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## travellor (Sep 21, 2022)

Purls of Wisdom said:


> It is becoming a bit of psychological problem for me. I look for diabetes friendly food. Initially I thought weetabix or Quakers Oats are OK. Then so called well wishers tell me that Weetabix or Quakers oats are not good for me. Weetabix contains sugar, you know. Frustratedly I think, great, one more thing off the list, which I liked.  Now what? Can I eat anything guiltfree? The list is limited as it is. I ve tried overnight Oats, they are OK but not my first choice.
> 
> Lately I've been feeling poorly. Lost my appetite. No food. No NR. No high BG levels. Suddenly I ended up in the hospital with high Ketones. Lack of food in the system, I was told.
> 
> ...



I got hammered when I went low fat.
I was told the only way to go was to cut carbs, and that was all I had to focus on as well.

I chose to step back, assess what I needed for me overall, not just fixate on BG.
It took a while, but I sorted a solution that fixed everything.
In my case my focus was mainly on weight.
I put exercise into the mix, then decided on a diet to comment my lifestyle, and the diabetes just fell into line after that.

All I could say is focus on what you want, take small steps, and look at overall quality of life.


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## snowball12 (Sep 21, 2022)

Purls of Wisdom said:


> It is becoming a bit of psychological problem for me. I look for diabetes friendly food. Initially I thought weetabix or Quakers Oats are OK. Then so called well wishers tell me that Weetabix or Quakers oats are not good for me. Weetabix contains sugar, you know. Frustratedly I think, great, one more thing off the list, which I liked.  Now what? Can I eat anything guiltfree? The list is limited as it is. I ve tried overnight Oats, they are OK but not my first choice.
> 
> Lately I've been feeling poorly. Lost my appetite. No food. No NR. No high BG levels. Suddenly I ended up in the hospital with high Ketones. Lack of food in the system, I was told.
> 
> ...


You are not babbling, this is the place to vent. I too suffer with mental health for many years. I have lost interest in food as well. I am rarely hungry. For me food is the enemy. I eat because I have too. My Dr is not happy with my hbc1a figures but he is never happy. The more he stresses me the higher my anxiety goes along with my sugar. Totally and utterly fed up with everything. 

You can talk to me anytime


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## rebrascora (Sep 21, 2022)

snowball12 said:


> What do you eat instead of bread, porridge and potatoes? I would starve


Breakfast is usually lovely creamy natural Greek yoghurt with mixed seeds and berries and a cup of coffee with real double cream. I often don't have lunch but it can be meat or cheese or eggs with a salad or soup or some veggie sticks with a sour cream and chive dip. Evening meal might be curry on a bed of green beans and courgettes and cabbage (usually cooked with a knob of butter (no rice) or ratatouille with high meat content sausages or with halloumi or gammon with cauliflower cheese and whatever other veg I have, usually cabbage or steak and celeriac chips and salad with cheese coleslaw or belly pork or tonight might be marrows (at least one of my courgettes got away on me) stuffed with a mince, mushroom and onion filling with green beans. The options are endless. Sometimes I just have a pot of olives and some nice cheese if I can't be bothered to cook anything, or some peppadew peppers stuffed with cream cheese or feta or some cooked meat with coleslaw and pickled beetroot..... and there might be the slightly more than occasional packet of pork scratching for a pretty much  zero carb crunchy snack. 

Doing without bread and potatoes was mind boggling at first (I was never that bothered about rice ... and pasta was just a means to bulk out a nice tasty sauce) so now I just have the tasty bit with some veg instead of all that "beige bulk" and amazingly I just don't miss them, even the bread and potatoes and I did love those. The less of them you eat, the less you crave them and the more you realize that the other food is far tastier. The fat in my diet provides slow release calories so I don't stint on that and eat lots of cheese and nuts and cream in my coffee and fatty meat and olives and avocado occasionally and my ratatouille is cooked in plenty of lovely olive oil and my veg is cooked with a knob of butter or dollop of cream cheese. You might think that this is going to cause me high cholesterol but my levels have dropped in the 3 years since I have been eating like this and my consultant tell s me to keep doing whatever I am doing. I feel fitter and healthier than I have in 20 years and my joint pain is reduced and my weight is stable and my gut and bowel health is the best it has been pretty well all my life, so this way of eating seems to really suit my body.... and now that I have got to grips with what to eat and how to cook it and tried different veggie alternatives like mashed cauliflower and celeriac chips, and roasted swede, I don't really feel like I miss the potatoes and bread at all. I very rarely feel hungry and I eat a lot less than I used to but it is calorie dense food and I still have plenty of energy and my mental health is improved..... and I love that I am now mostly in control of my comfort eating..... something which has plagued my life for years (still get the odd wobble but few and far between. 

I do still go out for a meal or special occasion or share fish and chips with my partner from the chippy very occasionally Maybe once every couple of months), but I usually have a reduced portion of the carb rich foods. What I find is that my BG levels are much harder to manage the day after and I sometimes start to get cravings the next day which creates upheaval that I don't need so I am mostly happier to tick along on my low carb higher fat way of eating and the fat is important to make it enjoyable and sustainable long term.... particularly once you reach target weight. .


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## travellor (Sep 21, 2022)

We're all different.
Sometimes I walk past Gregg's.
Sometimes I go in.


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## 42istheanswer (Sep 21, 2022)

Purls of Wisdom said:


> It is becoming a bit of psychological problem for me. I look for diabetes friendly food. Initially I thought weetabix or Quakers Oats are OK. Then so called well wishers tell me that Weetabix or Quakers oats are not good for me. Weetabix contains sugar, you know. Frustratedly I think, great, one more thing off the list, which I liked.  Now what? Can I eat anything guiltfree? The list is limited as it is. I ve tried overnight Oats, they are OK but not my first choice.
> 
> Lately I've been feeling poorly. Lost my appetite. No food. No NR. No high BG levels. Suddenly I ended up in the hospital with high Ketones. Lack of food in the system, I was told.
> 
> ...


Standard Weetabix contains very little sugar, however your body will sooner or later convert the complex carbs it contains into sugar. Whether or not your body can cope with weetabix as a breakfast is very individual, as you can see from the variation in the thread whether or not people have it. If you test your blood sugar before and 2 hours after, you'll be able to see whether it's OK for you. If your blood sugar goes up too high with 2 weetabix, you could potentially try one with some raspberries and nuts and see how that goes


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## travellor (Sep 21, 2022)

Have a look at "low GI" and "low GL".
As said above, Weetabix is a complex carb, it takes a longer time to be digested compared to a simple carb like sugar.
As it's digested slowly, any rise in blood sugar is low, over a lower time, than a quick hit of a simple carb dumping all at once.
Many type 2's find their insulin response is able to cope with the slow drop feed of a complex carb.


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## Drummer (Sep 21, 2022)

Be aware that we are all different.
I checked GL and GI foods - very little to recommend them.
Resistant starch - I think my gut just looked upon it as a challenge.
The only way to be sure is to test.
I got a meter and found that I get more carbs from peas and beans that listed, by about 80%. To replace potato, I tried out various low carb veges cooked in different ways.
I use cauliflower rather than rice with curry, and swede instead of potato to make bubble and squeak.


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## Purls of Wisdom (Sep 21, 2022)

42istheanswer said:


> Standard Weetabix contains very little sugar, however your body will sooner or later convert the complex carbs it contains into sugar. Whether or not your body can cope with weetabix as a breakfast is very individual, as you can see from the variation in the thread whether or not people have it. If you test your blood sugar before and 2 hours after, you'll be able to see whether it's OK for you. If your blood sugar goes up too high with 2 weetabix, you could potentially try one with some raspberries and nuts and see how that goes


A fairly easy and doable suggestion. Thanks. Goes up by how many mmol/L?


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## snowball12 (Sep 21, 2022)

rebrascora said:


> Breakfast is usually lovely creamy natural Greek yoghurt with mixed seeds and berries and a cup of coffee with real double cream. I often don't have lunch but it can be meat or cheese or eggs with a salad or soup or some veggie sticks with a sour cream and chive dip. Evening meal might be curry on a bed of green beans and courgettes and cabbage (usually cooked with a knob of butter (no rice) or ratatouille with high meat content sausages or with halloumi or gammon with cauliflower cheese and whatever other veg I have, usually cabbage or steak and celeriac chips and salad with cheese coleslaw or belly pork or tonight might be marrows (at least one of my courgettes got away on me) stuffed with a mince, mushroom and onion filling with green beans. The options are endless. Sometimes I just have a pot of olives and some nice cheese if I can't be bothered to cook anything, or some peppadew peppers stuffed with cream cheese or feta or some cooked meat with coleslaw and pickled beetroot..... and there might be the slightly more than occasional packet of pork scratching for a pretty much  zero carb crunchy snack.
> 
> Doing without bread and potatoes was mind boggling at first (I was never that bothered about rice ... and pasta was just a means to bulk out a nice tasty sauce) so now I just have the tasty bit with some veg instead of all that "beige bulk" and amazingly I just don't miss them, even the bread and potatoes and I did love those. The less of them you eat, the less you crave them and the more you realize that the other food is far tastier. The fat in my diet provides slow release calories so I don't stint on that and eat lots of cheese and nuts and cream in my coffee and fatty meat and olives and avocado occasionally and my ratatouille is cooked in plenty of lovely olive oil and my veg is cooked with a knob of butter or dollop of cream cheese. You might think that this is going to cause me high cholesterol but my levels have dropped in the 3 years since I have been eating like this and my consultant tell s me to keep doing whatever I am doing. I feel fitter and healthier than I have in 20 years and my joint pain is reduced and my weight is stable and my gut and bowel health is the best it has been pretty well all my life, so this way of eating seems to really suit my body.... and now that I have got to grips with what to eat and how to cook it and tried different veggie alternatives like mashed cauliflower and celeriac chips, and roasted swede, I don't really feel like I miss the potatoes and bread at all. I very rarely feel hungry and I eat a lot less than I used to but it is calorie dense food and I still have plenty of energy and my mental health is improved..... and I love that I am now mostly in control of my comfort eating..... something which has plagued my life for years (still get the odd wobble but few and far between.
> 
> I do still go out for a meal or special occasion or share fish and chips with my partner from the chippy very occasionally Maybe once every couple of months), but I usually have a reduced portion of the carb rich foods. What I find is that my BG levels are much harder to manage the day after and I sometimes start to get cravings the next day which creates upheaval that I don't need so I am mostly happier to tick along on my low carb higher fat way of eating and the fat is important to make it enjoyable and sustainable long term.... particularly once you reach target weight. .


You are so lucky to like veg and salad, enjoy


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## Leadinglights (Sep 21, 2022)

Purls of Wisdom said:


> A fairly easy and doable suggestion. Thanks. Goes up by how many mmol/L?


Are you not yet adjusting your insulin for the amount of carbs you are having. If you are then surely you can have weetabix, porridge, chapatis or whatever you like.


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## Purls of Wisdom (Sep 21, 2022)

Leadinglights said:


> Are you not yet adjusting your insulin for the amount of carbs you are having. If you are then surely you can have weetabix, porridge, chapatis or .orridge, chapatis or whatever you like.


I am afraid not. Allow me to give you an example. I calculated carbs for lunch. Added 2u as correction. BG levels were 14.3 mmol/L. Fast forward an hour and half, sensor reads 15.7 mmol/L  been out and about meanwhile. Returned home to 19.2. I ve not eaten a crumb during this period.
Can any one pls explain? Cos I can't. Ta!


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## Purls of Wisdom (Sep 21, 2022)

snowball12 said:


> You are so lucky to like veg and salad, enjoy


I cook most of the times. Thought I will be OK food wise upon diagnosis. Can cook lentils curries and what not. I couldn't be more wrong. The carbs are humongous in everything. One must not eat carrots, turnips , parsnips and middle of a cucumber. Nuts and fruits are good but in small variety.

All this do's one day and don'ts the other day, leaves me baffled and depressed.


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## Purls of Wisdom (Sep 21, 2022)

Drummer said:


> Be aware that we are all different.
> I checked GL and GI foods - very little to recommend them.
> Resistant starch - I think my gut just looked upon it as a challenge.
> The only way to be sure is to test.
> ...


My gut sees wheat as its arch enemy!


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## 42istheanswer (Sep 21, 2022)

Purls of Wisdom said:


> I am afraid not. Allow me to give you an example. I calculated carbs for lunch. Added 2u as correction. BG levels were 14.3 mmol/L. Fast forward an hour and half, sensor reads 15.7 mmol/L  been out and about meanwhile. Returned home to 19.2. I ve not eaten a crumb during this period.
> Can any one pls explain? Cos I can't. Ta!


That sounds like your insulin ratio may need adjusting if you're on insulin (sorry hadn't twigged that you were in my initial answer)


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## Purls of Wisdom (Sep 21, 2022)

travellor said:


> Have a look at "low GI" and "low GL".
> As said above, Weetabix is a complex carb, it takes a longer time to be digested compared to a simple carb like sugar.
> As it's digested slowly, any rise in blood sugar is low, over a lower time, than a quick hit of a simple carb dumping all at once.
> Many type 2's find their insulin response is able to cope with the slow drop feed of a complex carb.


... and how do the T1 respond? Not that I am any wiser as regards to my diagnosis. Lol not.


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## Purls of Wisdom (Sep 21, 2022)

42istheanswer said:


> That sounds like your insulin ratio may need adjusting if you're on insulin (sorry hadn't twigged that you were in my initial answer)


My DSN is very slowly making adjustments but no joy for everyone to see. I am beside myself.


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## travellor (Sep 21, 2022)

Purls of Wisdom said:


> ... and how do the T1 respond? Not that I am any wiser as regards to my diagnosis. Lol not.



Are you type 1?
You are showing as type 2?

Having said that, if you are on insulin I would suggest you ignore everything most of us have said so far, and look at responses from those that can advise on carbs and insulin.


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## Purls of Wisdom (Sep 21, 2022)

travellor said:


> I got hammered when I went low fat.
> I was told the only way to go was to cut carbs, and that was all I had to focus on as well.
> 
> I chose to step back, assess what I needed for me overall, not just fixate on BG.
> ...





travellor said:


> Are you type 1?
> You are showing as type 2?
> 
> Having said that, if you are on insulin I would suggest you ignore everything most of us have said so far, and look at responses from those that can advise on carbs and insulin.


To my utmost despair, I am still not told which type I am, 5+ months since diagnosed. The first treatment offered to me was insulin. I was rushed to HSP with raised ketones. Possible DKA. All symptoms pointing to Type 1. The experts keep changing their opinion.

I ended up in A&E yesterday with high ketones (type 1?). But the doctor also thought that I am T2DM. 

Who should I ask?


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## travellor (Sep 21, 2022)

Purls of Wisdom said:


> To my utmost despair, I am still not told which type I am, 5+ months since diagnosed. The first treatment offered to me was insulin. I was rushed to HSP with raised ketones. Possible DKA. All symptoms pointing to Type 1. The experts keep changing their opinion.
> 
> I ended up in A&E yesterday with high ketones (type 1?). But the doctor also thought that I am T2DM.
> 
> Who should I ask?



I am the first to admit my complete lack of knowledge on this, but there are many way better qualified to answer this.
Hopefully they will be along soon.


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## rebrascora (Sep 21, 2022)

Purls of Wisdom said:


> I am afraid not. Allow me to give you an example. I calculated carbs for lunch. Added 2u as correction. BG levels were 14.3 mmol/L. Fast forward an hour and half, sensor reads 15.7 mmol/L  been out and about meanwhile. Returned home to 19.2. I ve not eaten a crumb during this period.
> Can any one pls explain? Cos I can't. Ta!


Sounds like your basal insulin dose may not be holding you steady.... but it also depends if you gave your bolus insulin plenty of time to bring your levels down before you ate and your correction dose may not have been large enough. 

If my levels are above 8 when I eat then they will just go higher, so I always inject my bolus and correction and wait until they come down below 8 before eating, even if it takes 2-3 hours. I may eat something low carb in the meantime like a boiled egg if I am hungry but nothing is going in my mouth that will send my levels higher until I come down into range.

For me 2 units would be nowhere near enough of a correction dose to bring me down from 14 and clearly it wasn't for you either. Correction factors like 2 or 3 (where a unit of insulin drops you 2 mmols or 3 mmols) often only work if your levels are within a reasonable range and if levels are higher then many of us need a larger correction dose. For me 1 unit will drop me 3 mmols if I am in range, but if my levels are above 8 then 1 unit will only drop me 2mmols and if I am above 10 it will probably only drop me 1.5 units. That is because we become more insulin resistant when our BG levels are higher. That said, if I do some exercise with my normal correction factor of 3 then it will be more effective, so I have to factor in whether I am likely to be able to do some exercise whilst I am waiting for that correction to be effective, when I inject it. There is a lot to think about. It is not a simple and straight forward ratio or correction factor that works every time, you have to take into account, the starting BG and your activity levels and how long you can reasonably wait to eat. If I am in a hurry, I sometimes give a much bigger correction that I think I will need and then keep an eye on my levels afterwards and top up with a little few carbs later if I need to. This wasn't possible pre Libre but with the advantage of being able to monitor levels more quickly and easily whenever we want, we don't need to be quite so cautious with corrections because we can monitor how they are working and just correct with a few carbs if we were a bit heavy handed with the insulin earlier. 

I think your situation may be a combination of not enough basal insulin and not enough correction insulin was probably the cause of your levels going upwards instead of coming down, but prebolus time is also twice as important when levels are high and the rule of not eating when levels are above 8 is a really helpful one  for regaining control when levels are high. I appreciate it isn't always possible to delay a meal by 2 or 3 hours but it is well worth doing if you can because it enables you to get your BG back on track rather than fighting a losing battle with high levels. I often remark that you would think my insulin turned to water when I inject it with my levels above 10 for all the good it does. I have to be really heavy handed (generous) with it to bring high levels down.


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## nonethewiser (Sep 22, 2022)

Purls of Wisdom said:


> ... and how do the T1 respond? Not that I am any wiser as regards to my diagnosis. Lol not.



Sounds like you need proffesional input but ain't getting it, type 1s like myself manage  just fine when we have skills & tech to hand, most of what we know is from experience & in many ways that can't be taught as our bodies are all different.

Just this minute finished delicious & nutritious  bowl of porridge with greek yogurt & berries, with right treatment & knowledge you should be able to eat similar meals in time.


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## Wannie (Sep 22, 2022)

Taffyboyslim said:


> I had to take some fybogel two days ago !
> 
> Prunes ? ?


I have 40g of Asdas version of Allbran (19g carb) plus either 40g of blueberries, raspberries or strawberries, with either semi skimmed milk or Alpro no sugar yogurt or greek yogurt. Tested BG before and after breakfast for a while, until sure I could cope with it without a big rise, plus plenty of fluids, lots of veg and salad!


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## Purls of Wisdom (Sep 22, 2022)

travellor said:


> I got hammered when I went low fat.
> I was told the only way to go was to cut carbs, and that was all I had to focus on as well.
> 
> I chose to step back, assess what I needed for me overall, not just fixate on BG.
> ...



My body weight has never been an issue.  I have lost too much weight as it is. My only positive point, if there is such a thing.

I ve spent past few weeks feeling sorry for myself. Definitely fixated on BG levels. Not thinking for myself, taking extra actions, risks, control and wondering why things are not working for me?

I have decided to take things in my own hands as you had suggested.  I know I am not an outdoor-ish person, lack self discipline and motivation but I made conscious effort to get off the couch, move around.  I was pleasantly surprised to discover how well it works. It has only been 2 days and I see difference in my readings. Surely being little generous with the insulin has a big hand to play in it.

I tend to worry about one particular hyper episode until it dawned on me, it is not a matter of one reading; it is an issue for the rest of my days now. What I need to do is to experiment, take risks, and keep trying until the desired levels are achieved. A light bulb moment indeed.

All I can say here is, thank you for all the support. Do not know where would I be w/o this Forum.


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## Purls of Wisdom (Sep 23, 2022)

nonethewiser said:


> Sounds like you need proffesional input but ain't getting it, type 1s like myself manage  just fine when we have skills & tech to hand, most of what we know is from experience & in many ways that can't be taught as our bodies are all different.


My experiences were nothing but negative. The support I get is too little and far in-between. I certainly do not know enough for me to feel confident. 


nonethewiser said:


> Just this minute finished delicious & nutritious  bowl of porridge with greek yogurt & berries, with right treatment & knowledge you should be able to eat similar meals in time.


When you say 'time', roughly how long did it take you to work out the right ratio of insulin to carbs? In 5+ months, I've understood very little and retained even less.

Living in hope ...


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## Purls of Wisdom (Sep 23, 2022)

rebrascora said:


> Sounds like your basal insulin dose may not be holding you steady.... but it also depends if you gave your bolus insulin plenty of time to bring your levels down before you ate and your correction dose may not have been large enough.


You are so right. The DSN said the same but suggested nothing to remedy it. I have not even touched the finer points of manipulating the hyper readings.  For your amusement, my time in range is 56% and average glucose is 10mmol/L, which in my view is too high. I should be guided towards bringing it lower. I am barely at the baby steps stage in regards to correction doses. 


rebrascora said:


> If my levels are above 8 when I eat then they will just go higher, so I always inject my bolus and correction and wait until they come down below 8 before eating, even if it takes 2-3 hours. I may eat something low carb in the meantime like a boiled egg if I am hungry but nothing is going in my mouth that will send my levels higher until I come down into range.


With my average levels, how low should I be before eating? I have not been told but I picked this up from here only. 


rebrascora said:


> For me 2 units would be nowhere near enough of a correction dose to bring me down from 14 and clearly it wasn't for you either. Correction factors like 2 or 3 (where a unit of insulin drops you 2 mmols or 3 mmols) often only work if your levels are within a reasonable range and if levels are higher then many of us need a larger correction dose.


Don't i know it. I have only been advised to take 1 or 2units as correction. No mention of the longer waiting time. At times my BG levels are fairly high. 1 or 2units do nothing.
Am i expected to take charge w/o any formal education?


rebrascora said:


> For me 1 unit will drop me 3 mmols if I am in range, but if my levels are above 8 then 1 unit will only drop me 2mmols and if I am above 10 it will probably only drop me 1.5 units. That is because we become more insulin resistant when our BG levels are higher. That said, if I do some exercise with my normal correction factor of 3 then it will be more effective, so I have to factor in whether I am likely to be able to do some exercise whilst I am waiting for that correction to be effective, when I inject it. There is a lot to think about. It is not a simple and straight forward ratio or correction factor that works every time, you have to take into account, the starting BG and your activity levels and how long you can reasonably wait to eat. If I am in a hurry, I sometimes give a much bigger correction that I think I will need and then keep an eye on my levels afterwards and top up with a little few carbs later if I need to. This wasn't possible pre Libre but with the advantage of being able to monitor levels more quickly and easily whenever we want, we don't need to be quite so cautious with corrections because we can monitor how they are working and just correct with a few carbs if we were a bit heavy handed with the insulin earlier.
> 
> I think your situation may be a combination of not enough basal insulin and not enough correction insulin was probably the cause of your levels going upwards instead of coming down, but prebolus time is also twice as important when levels are high and the rule of not eating when levels are above 8 is a really helpful one  for regaining control when levels are high. I appreciate it isn't always possible to delay a meal by 2 or 3 hours but it is well worth doing if you can because it enables you to get your BG back on track rather than fighting a losing battle with high levels. I often remark that you would think my insulin turned to water when I inject it with my levels above 10 for all the good it does. I have to be really heavy handed (generous) with it to bring high levels down.


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## nonethewiser (Sep 23, 2022)

Purls of Wisdom said:


> My experiences were nothing but negative. The support I get is too little and far in-between. I certainly do not know enough for me to feel confident.
> 
> When you say 'time', roughly how long did it take you to work out the right ratio of insulin to carbs? In 5+ months, I've understood very little and retained even less.
> 
> Living in hope ...



Time as in whole shebang, meaning not just radio of insulin for food but getting basal dose right, that is fundamental before anything else.

As well as ratios its timing of bolys dose for different meals, so there's no set time it's just something you learn as you go along.


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## Leadinglights (Sep 23, 2022)

Purls of Wisdom said:


> You are so right. The DSN said the same but suggested nothing to remedy it. I have not even touched the finer points of manipulating the hyper readings.  For your amusement, my time in range is 56% and average glucose is 10mmol/L, which in my view is too high. I should be guided towards bringing it lower. I am barely at the baby steps stage in regards to correction doses.
> 
> With my average levels, how low should I be before eating? I have not been told but I picked this up from here only.
> 
> ...


People have mentioned an on- line BERTIE course which people can register for, have you done that or thought of looking at that, as you say you have had no education. Or ask for referral to the DAFNE or your area equivalent.


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## Poppy460 (Sep 23, 2022)

Really interested about the comments on porridge. I love the stuff. Think I might be eating a little too much, anyone know the grams  per serving I should be having?


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## everydayupsanddowns (Sep 23, 2022)

Poppy460 said:


> Really interested about the comments on porridge. I love the stuff. Think I might be eating a little too much, anyone know the grams  per serving I should be having?



It’s a very individual thing, and people will have different tolerances. 

There will probably be a suggested serving size on the pack, which might help with calorie estimation if you find that helpful.

Many members here would simply check BG immediately before, and again 2hrs after the first bite, and see if the rise from the meal was 2-3mmol/L or less. If higher than that try a tweaked recipe or smaller portion?


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## NotWorriedAtAll (Sep 23, 2022)

I make a keto version of 'overnight oats'

for one portion

1 teaspoon of psyllium husk
1 teaspoon of oat fibre (it is oats with all the carbs removed)
1 teaspoon of chia seeds
some nutmeg
some cinammon
some zero carb milk (either almond or pea protein) to cover the dry ingredients
sweetener to taste

Into a jar and keep in the refrigerator overnight.
Serve it with double cream or greek yoghurt and some berries or chia seed jam.

You can also do this hot - by microwaving the mixture and having it as hot porridge.
It is delicious and it is full of fibre and I have no issues with keeping regular because at the smallest hint of it - I have this for breakfast with a big cup of decaf coffee.


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## travellor (Sep 23, 2022)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> It’s a very individual thing, and people will have different tolerances.
> 
> There will probably be a suggested serving size on the pack, which might help with calorie estimation if you find that helpful.
> 
> Many members here would simply check BG immediately before, and again 2hrs after the first bite, and see if the rise from the meal was 2-3mmol/L or less. If higher than that try a tweaked recipe or smaller portion?



What's your feeling if you start from somewhere low, say 4?
I used to be more than happy with a rise of 4 or 5, targeting 8.5, with a bit of leeway for the meter accuracy.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Sep 24, 2022)

travellor said:


> What's your feeling if you start from somewhere low, say 4?
> I used to be more than happy with a rise of 4 or 5, targeting 8.5, with a bit of leeway for the meter accuracy.



It’s an interesting question - and I think it’s different for me because I will always need to check on an ongoing basis. Personally with insulin involved I would treat a 4.0 with something high glucose to guard against a dip, on top of the meal itself. 

I generally give myself leeway with all these things. So while recognising 2-3 as ideal I would be happy-ish with 4, or thereabouts. 

If I were looking for knowledge about which sources / portion sizes of carb which suited me best that I could use on an ongoing basis with less frequent ‘maintenance’ BG monitoring, then 2-3 seems a good limit. That way, if I were mid-range to start with I’d still only get to 9ish. Still fine by me. 

Additionally, in the beginning it would mean I could still gather useful data. A rise of 10-11.5 still makes it a ‘good’ meal, even though 11.5 is higher than ideal. 

Just my own thoughts. Glad you’ve found an approach that works for you.


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## travellor (Sep 24, 2022)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> It’s an interesting question - and I think it’s different for me because I will always need to check on an ongoing basis. Personally with insulin involved I would treat a 4.0 with something high glucose to guard against a dip, on top of the meal itself.
> 
> I generally give myself leeway with all these things. So while recognising 2-3 as ideal I would be happy-ish with 4, or thereabouts.
> 
> ...



I think there is possibly a difference in the types of diabetes that affects the rise in BG.
Even between type 2's to the amount of carbs and insulin response.
For type 2, I found insulin resistance, and insulin response varies, at diagnosis, I could produce insulin, no idea on initial response, but definitely ok on the slower response. 
Insulin resistance varied depending on what I had been doing.
So rises were fairly unpredictable.
But, I could probably have a slow graze, on  a slow rise food, and my body would still be trying to keep to 8.5 ish, and even with a slow insulin response, succeeded sometimes.
A fast glucose source, it wouldn't keep up.
Now I've got it under control, my body's feedback maintains the ceiling at which it'll switch off insulin response.
Say 8.5.
I can't actually change that.
But I don't know that bringing it down a lower level would have benefitted me, apart from stopping me eating food my body could naturally still cope with.
I agree if you are starting higher, and a rise would take you over 8.5 it's not ideal, then I'd be looking for a lower rise, but still expecting my body to be targeting the drop to 8.5 if I had to eat.
And to be honest, even if I didn't eat, a liver dump would probably happen, and take over anyway, depending on insulin resistance.


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## DiabeetusDad (Sep 26, 2022)

I would love to have porridge oats or toast but my BS accelerates rapidly if I do despite onboarding insulin 20 minutes earlier. This throws my day out. I generally have a small portion of scrambled eggs and bacon and my levels are amazingly stable. I also take some Psyllium husk. I have recently started intermittent fasting 20 - 24 for 48 hr so don’t eat breakfast on these days.


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## rebrascora (Sep 26, 2022)

DiabeetusDad said:


> I would love to have porridge oats or toast but my BS accelerates rapidly if I do despite onboarding insulin 20 minutes earlier.


Have you experimented with pre-bolusing longer for your breakfast. I need 45 mins with Fiasp and 75 mins with Novo (notso)Rapid which is quite extreme, but I am not the only one. If you love porridge then it might be worth some more experimentation with prebolus timing. I now inject for breakfast as soon as I wake up and before I get out of bed and then go through my morning routine until Libre shows the insulin is kicking in and I usually start eating mid 5s and even with creamy Greek natural yoghurt with berries and seeds there is still time for my levels to come up before I hit the red line. 
I don't time it anymore but just keep an eye on my Libre and the 45 mins advance insulin is remarkable consistent for me. 

Not suggesting you (or anyone else) should prebolus so far in advance without careful experimentation or close monitoring of Libre but just saying that 20 mins at breakfast is not long enough for many people so maybe try increasing it by a few mins each day until you find the sweet spot timing for your body, but don't feel limited by the 20 min advice from health care professionals or pharmaceutical advice. Other meals need much less prebolus time but we can be quite insulin resistant in the morning due to Foot on the Floor/Dawn Phenomenon so the insulin often needs a bigger head start.

Of course eggs are a great way to start the day but just thought, if you love porridge, you might want to find a way to make it work for you. Best to experiment on a non-work day so you have time to keep a close eye on things.


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## Lucyr (Sep 26, 2022)

Porridge for breakfast is a 40-45 minute prebolus for me too, with apidra. If you’ve only tried 20 minutes then don’t rule porridge out, just try longer preboluses first.


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## rebrascora (Sep 26, 2022)

Lucyr said:


> Porridge for breakfast is a 40-45 minute prebolus for me too, with apidra. If you’ve only tried 20 minutes then don’t rule porridge out, just try longer preboluses first.


Thanks Lucy. I already need 45 mins prebolus time with Fiasp even for my yoghurt breakfast and I enjoy that so at the moment I can't be bothered to experiment further with porridge. I also feel more in control of my eating when I keep grains to a minimum and eat low carb. I get horrible cravings and want to comfort eat when I start to eat more carbs ..... and I enjoy low carb eating in general now that I have got my head around it. I would also rather have a big bowl of low carb foods as a small bowl of high carb.


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## Lucyr (Sep 26, 2022)

rebrascora said:


> Thanks Lucy. I already need 45 mins prebolus time with Fiasp even for my yoghurt breakfast and I enjoy that so at the moment I can't be bothered to experiment further with porridge. I also feel more in control of my eating when I keep grains to a minimum and eat low carb. I get horrible cravings and want to comfort eat when I start to eat more carbs ..... and I enjoy low carb eating in general now that I have got my head around it. I would also rather have a big bowl of low carb foods as a small bowl of high carb.


@DiabeetusDad does want porridge though. As do I.


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## rebrascora (Sep 26, 2022)

Lucyr said:


> @DiabeetusDad does want porridge though. As do I.


I accept that and it was the whole purpose of my post which was why the comment below was my penultimate sentence on that post. 


rebrascora said:


> Of course eggs are a great way to start the day but just thought, if you love porridge, you might want to find a way to make it work for you


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## DiabeetusDad (Sep 26, 2022)

rebrascora said:


> Have you experimented with pre-bolusing longer for your breakfast. I need 45 mins with Fiasp and 75 mins with Novo (notso)Rapid which is quite extreme, but I am not the only one. If you love porridge then it might be worth some more experimentation with prebolus timing. I now inject for breakfast as soon as I wake up and before I get out of bed and then go through my morning routine until Libre shows the insulin is kicking in and I usually start eating mid 5s and even with creamy Greek natural yoghurt with berries and seeds there is still time for my levels to come up before I hit the red line.
> I don't time it anymore but just keep an eye on my Libre and the 45 mins advance insulin is remarkable consistent for me.
> 
> Not suggesting you (or anyone else) should prebolus so far in advance without careful experimentation or close monitoring of Libre but just saying that 20 mins at breakfast is not long enough for many people so maybe try increasing it by a few mins each day until you find the sweet spot timing for your body, but don't feel limited by the 20 min advice from health care professionals or pharmaceutical advice. Other meals need much less prebolus time but we can be quite insulin resistant in the morning due to Foot on the Floor/Dawn Phenomenon so the insulin often needs a bigger head start.
> ...


No It didn’t cross my mind to be honest. I‘m going to try this tomorrow as I am always looking for different ways to manage my diabetes. I’m using NovoRapid. I’ll take it 60 mins earlier and monitor the situation. Cheers


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## rebrascora (Sep 26, 2022)

DiabeetusDad said:


> No It didn’t cross my mind to be honest. I‘m going to try this tomorrow as I am always looking for different ways to manage my diabetes. I’m using NovoRapid. I’ll take it 60 mins earlier and monitor the situation. Cheers



*60 mins is too long for a first experiment in my opinion and COULD BE DANGEROUS . *

If you have only tried 20 before, maybe try 30mins in the morning and then 35mins the next day and keep adding 5 mins until you find the right timing for you. 
You may well go hypo if you leave it 60 mins straight off. Most people would probably hypo in that time. It is very much an individual thing, so please experiment cautiously rather than jump in with both feet! It took me a couple of weeks to find out what worked for me.... granted, I was initially just finger pricking and didn't have Libre, so I had to be much more cautious and I did A LOT of finger pricking but I would hate for you to end up hypo because you assumed you would be safe on 60 mins, just because I am. 
Your BG reading in the morning will also have a bearing on how long the insulin will need. If you wake up in the 4s you will almost certainly need less prebolus time than if you wake up in the 7s or 8s.


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## DiabeetusDad (Sep 26, 2022)

rebrascora said:


> *60 mins is too long for a first experiment in my opinion and COULD BE DANGEROUS . *
> 
> If you have only tried 20 before, maybe try 30mins in the morning and then 35mins the next day and keep adding 5 mins until you find the right timing for you.
> You may well go hypo if you leave it 60 mins straight off. Most people would probably hypo in that time. It is very much an individual thing, so please experiment cautiously rather than jump in with both feet! It took me a couple of weeks to find out what worked for me.... granted, I was initially just finger pricking and didn't have Libre, so I had to be much more cautious and I did A LOT of finger pricking but I would hate for you to end up hypo because you assumed you would be safe on 60 mins, just because I am.
> Your BG reading in the morning will also have a bearing on how long the insulin will need. If you wake up in the 4s you will almost certainly need less prebolus time than if you wake up in the 7s or 8s.


Thanks for your concern and your advice is duly noted.. I’ve been a type 1 for 19 years and amazingly, I’m still alive :O) - I have gone through so many different periods of caring and not caring, depression, feeling sorry for myself, etc. I see a diabetic nurse once a year to get my feet checked and urine analysed and that’s it - the rest is up to me to figure out. 

I have dealt with many Hypo and Hyper situations other the years. Please don’t worry, I am very cautious when trying out different procedures, and have glucose at the ready should my BS drop.

I started self funding a Dexcom one in August 22 and this has change my life considerably. No more having to prick fingers and deal with the disappointment of a Hi BS and then trying to correct, etc. and doing this on a monthly allocation of 50 strips. Although, these devices do have there disadvantages as I have discovered, such as knocking them off when walking through a doorway or catching them when removing clothing, etc. but I’m becoming less clumsy now. I do also compare the Dexcom readings with a conventional finger prick on a daily basis just to be sure all is well.

I have a first ever appointment with a diabetic consultant in Nov to talk tech, so I am hoping to get funding for a Dexcom one, which will give me the motivation to start taking back control.

Best wishes,

John


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## rebrascora (Sep 26, 2022)

@DiabeetusDad  Phew! Thanks for clarifying that you will be cautious. I would hate to think that any advice I offered encouraged anyone to end up hypo and the possible consequences of that even if it is just ending up late for work. I can just imagine you muttering about a stupid keyboard warrior giving you duff advice as you explained to the boss why you were late.... or at least thinking it .

My consultant was horrified to learn that I needed to pre bolus so far in advance for breakfast (but he couldn't argue with my evidence) and it was the main reason why I changed to Fiasp which is a little quicker. CGMs enable us and health care professionals to see our response to carbs and insulin in so much more detail and whilst they previously had to be very cautious about advising people on prebolus times based on an average person, CGMs enable us to tailor our diabetes management to our individual bodies (if we are engaged enough to do so) and that can make a huge difference to the stability of our BG levels, enabling much more time in range and less rollercoaster which in turn improves mental health. I tend to treat my diabetes management more like a very long running computer game now with Libre than a health condition. That mental shift alone lifts a lot of the pressure of it, so I wish you luck getting the Dexcom one on prescription but if all else fails, don't come away without an alternative like Libre which may be slightly easier to acquire than the Dexcom just because it has been prescribed longer and should now be standard supply for Type 1s.


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