# anyone know about 'grievance proceedure'



## bev (Oct 22, 2009)

Hi all,

After 7 months of my daughter being bullied at work - she has finally decided to take out a 'grievance proceedure' against this person (her boss). Does anyone have any experience of this sort of thing or advice please?Thanks. Bev


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## Steff (Oct 22, 2009)

Sorry i have no advice as i have had no experience at this but Bev i hope your daughter does all she can to sort this boss out , all the best to all xx


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## AlisonM (Oct 22, 2009)

As it's her boss, she needs to talk to HR, if there is such a thing where she works. She needs to quote dates, times, places and details, and if there are any witnesses that would be a big help in establishing her case. If there's no HR, then she should go to her boss' boss with the same information. Have her write it all down ahead of time so it's clear in her head and so she can give a copy to whoever she speaks to, if they ask for it (but not until they ask).

.Gov site on bullying in the workplace.

Working rights website.


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## twinnie (Oct 22, 2009)

hi there different companyshave different procedures the only advice i could give is that she has someone with her for meeting or anything to do with the procudure is she with a union? if so there will help. sorry i cant be more help


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## Sugarbum (Oct 22, 2009)

How awful Bev.

What kind of work is your daughter in? Is she in a profession or in a union? It is something I dont have a knowledge of but belong to a work force union so that is where I would make my first port of call. I know that is not helpful if she is not.

Hope that you get some constructive help. I expect when more people are logged on (fairly quiet tonight) we must have someone familiar with these kind of problems among us. Fingers crossed. x

P.S- sorry I posted same time as above! (edit!) Good advice AlisonM


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## tracey w (Oct 22, 2009)

Bev, I hate bullying of any kind. Im afraid i dont have any advice, but i know soon you will get some really helpful advice, send her my wishes and tell her to be strong, bullies must not win, xxx


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## AlisonM (Oct 22, 2009)

Twinnie's suggestion of having someone go with your daughter when she talks to whoever is a good one, especially if that person has witnessed any of the bullying.


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## bev (Oct 22, 2009)

Thanks for the replies.

When this all started i told her to diary everything. She has dates and times etc. Another member of staff is willing to speak up for her and say that the boss bullies my daughter.

The company is a well known company in London. They have a HR and we are hoping that they will follow the protocol of bullying to the letter.

The trouble is that my daughter (22) is very easy going and I think this boss has targeted her because she is easy prey. But enough is enough and she is making her ill - so I have encouraged her to speak up. It wont be easy for her - but things cant get any worse to be honest.

You think that bullies are left behind at the school gate dont you? I am just thankful that this other member of staff is willing to support her with all this. I have no idea what pleasure this boss gets out of making a person so traumatised and unhappy. I just hope things get better for her as this has really knocked her confidence! Thanks for all your good wishes - I will pass them on to her.Bev x


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## AlisonM (Oct 22, 2009)

bev said:


> ...You think that bullies are left behind at the school gate dont you?



Unfortunately not, you get them everywhere. She's lucky in a way that it's large organisation, they have pretty strict guidelines that must be followed and if they fail to do so, they can be sued.

By the way, don't let her hand over the original diary, have her make copies and give them one.


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## bev (Oct 22, 2009)

AlisonM said:


> As it's her boss, she needs to talk to HR, if there is such a thing where she works. She needs to quote dates, times, places and details, and if there are any witnesses that would be a big help in establishing her case. If there's no HR, then she should go to her boss' boss with the same information. Have her write it all down ahead of time so it's clear in her head and so she can give a copy to whoever she speaks to, if they ask for it (but not until they ask).
> 
> .Gov site on bullying in the workplace.
> 
> Working rights website.



Alison,
Thanks for the link- I have just read it to her - and the 8 points made about bullying ALL apply to her! Thanks so much - she is very grateful and so am I.
She joined the union 3 weeks ago as she was worried about things. Lou, she is in the 'retail buying industry' -but I would rather not say what company -suffice to say its very up-market!

Thanks all - your all so lovely! I will let you know how things go tomorrow.Bev xxx


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## AlisonM (Oct 22, 2009)

Great, I'm glad it was useful. If there's anything else I can do to help at this distance, PM me and I'll see what I can do. I was a union rep for a few years and latterly helped draft HR policies for a large global client, so I know just enough to be dangerous.


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## Sugarbum (Oct 22, 2009)

AlisonM said:


> Great, I'm glad it was useful. If there's anything else I can do to help at this distance, PM me and I'll see what I can do. I was a union rep for a few years and latterly helped draft HR policies for a large global client, so I know just enough to be dangerous.




AlisonM you are so sweet and very good with finding helpful links for people I notice


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## bev (Oct 22, 2009)

AlisonM said:


> Great, I'm glad it was useful. If there's anything else I can do to help at this distance, PM me and I'll see what I can do. I was a union rep for a few years and latterly helped draft HR policies for a large global client, so I know just enough to be dangerous.



He he - I will remember that! Thanks Alison - your a star. My daughter is ringing her union in the morning and if needs be we are willing to employ a solicitor. I know this sounds drastic - but this has had such a huge affect on her mental state and has knocked her confidence so much. This person needs to be stopped or she will continue to bully and may make some other poor persons life a misery. Thanks again all.Bev x


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## AlisonM (Oct 22, 2009)

Sugarbum said:


> AlisonM you are so sweet and very good with finding helpful links for people I notice


Sweet? That's the problem for us all isn't?

I spent a good part of my working life finding information for folks, it's second nature to me now and I'm glad to be able to help.


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## am64 (Oct 23, 2009)

hey Ally great work!!  and Bev i know your daughter will need alot of support and what a great mum shes got to give it her!!! ...
i lost many jobs because of bullying between 1988-present day in so called proffessional offices as well as one local authority!! .... at the various times i didnt have the energy or access to information to fight it as i do now...
Best of Luck to you both...


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## Caroline (Oct 23, 2009)

bev said:


> Hi all,
> 
> After 7 months of my daughter being bullied at work - she has finally decided to take out a 'grievance proceedure' against this person (her boss). Does anyone have any experience of this sort of thing or advice please?Thanks. Bev



Does your daughter have union representation? That might help, or a welfare or HR advisor may be able to help. She needs some one with an objective point of view to help her.

Hubby used to do union work, and advises anything put in writing has to be factual. I know being bullied is not fun, but try not to let emotions get in the way, and if possible include dates and include as much information as possible.

Good luck, I hope it all gets resolved for your daughter


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## Rod (Oct 23, 2009)

bev said:


> Hi all,
> 
> After 7 months of my daughter being bullied at work - she has finally decided to take out a 'grievance proceedure' against this person (her boss). Does anyone have any experience of this sort of thing or advice please?Thanks. Bev



Hi Bev,

I have a fair bit of experiance with this. I am a manager for a "unionised" logistics company. We deal with grievances fairly often. I have also represented my wife when she was bullied at work a few years ago and was forced to leave the company.

The details of the process should be outlined in the policy itself. Its usually in stages starting with tackling the grievance with the person causing the problem, HR or thier direct manager....it should then be answered, if not escalted to the next level. All the boxed of each stage should be ticked to ensure you can demonstarte that you have tried to resolve the issue.

Please get in touch and I can help you further if you like.


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## bev (Oct 24, 2009)

Hi Rod and all,

Quick update. Daughter went to see HR on friday. They have told her that she can use the grievance proceedure for bullying, but, all the other people in the office will have to be questioned (those who have been involved in some way with some incidents etc) and the bully herself will get to hear all the accounts from all the other members of staff.

Then, the boss above the bully will be given all the relevant details and she will then decide whether this is a case of bullying or not. If not, then my daughter will have to work with the bully again. If found guilty of bullying, then the bully will be dealt with but my daughter wont be privvy to what this is. HR told my daughter that this is not an easy thing to do and reminded her that she will have to work with these people afterwards etc...

So, my daughter has spoken with union etc and they are all having a meeting on monday - to put the grievance forward if the union think she has a case.
But, after this , my daughter has decided to resign and perhaps go for 'constructive dismassal' as she no longer feels that she can work with these people. Although she is the victim in all this, we know that she will be seen as a troublemaker and not to be trusted. So, it seems that the bully has won and my daughter will have to walk away from a job she loved doing.


Thanks everyone for you help and support - much appreciated. If anyone out there has witnessed bullying in the workplace - please blow the whistle on the bully and support the victim. Bev


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## AlisonM (Oct 24, 2009)

I wish your daughter luck Bev. If it's any comfort, I think she's doing the right thing. Do let us know how it works out won't you?


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## Steff (Oct 24, 2009)

Wish your daughter best of luck with it Bev xx


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## hermit104 (Oct 25, 2009)

Bev, if your daughter leaves without going through the firm's grievance procedure she will be in a much weaker position when it comes to an Employment Tribunal.  If she can, much better to go through it and only leave afterwards if the situation does not improve.
I don't think anyone has mentioned that the standard for proving bullying is quite low i.e. the perception of the recipient rather than what a reasonable person would consider bullying.
I am not an HR professional but HR is part of my job and I handle grievances from time to time.  In a few cases the procedure is cathartic and people move on to have a good working relationship afterwards
Rona


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## bev (Oct 25, 2009)

hermit104 said:


> Bev, if your daughter leaves without going through the firm's grievance procedure she will be in a much weaker position when it comes to an Employment Tribunal.  If she can, much better to go through it and only leave afterwards if the situation does not improve.
> I don't think anyone has mentioned that the standard for proving bullying is quite low i.e. the perception of the recipient rather than what a reasonable person would consider bullying.
> I am not an HR professional but HR is part of my job and I handle grievances from time to time.  In a few cases the procedure is cathartic and people move on to have a good working relationship afterwards
> Rona




Hi Rona,
My daughter is going down the road of the grievance proceedure (before she resigns) - but we just think that it is hard to 'prove' bullying - as you have said it seems to be about perception rather than actual fact - so hard to prove i think.

It is interesting that you say some people do go on to a better working environment - i had assumed it would be too hard for her - i will let her know that sometimes things can be overcome- thanks.Bev


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## Einstein (Oct 27, 2009)

Bev,

It's sounding to me like the company has an inward looking approach to this issue and doesn't seem to consider legal definition, leaving the bullies manager to determine of their own accord the definition of bully or demanding, high performing manager.

Their process is flawed on a number of accounts, I would perhaps suggest consulting with a solicitor specialising in employment law - there is unlikely to be a good one lurking in your local firm, you will need a bigger company.

However, having raised the issue, then if the manager determines this isn't bullying and forces her to return to the same manager, and that the bullying continues or becomes a personal vendata then I'd perhaps consider looking at the avenues of constructive dismissal - this does NOT have to be contructed by the higher management of the firm, any officer of the company can in effect make anothers life unbearable and therefore force that person to resign.

In such a case the settlement is considerable and WILL open the eyes of the firm. It is unlikely if they are insured that their insurers wouldn't cover this claim.

I'd also suggest that if your daughter has attended the doctors for work related stress that this is recorded as part of the procedure.

Interestingly, she probably can gain access to the copy of the summary, as I am sure that this will be held somewhere in the oganisation in an electronic form email, word etc, therefore, under the Data Protection Act she is entitled to any information held by the organisation in relation to her or her records. A standard fee is payable for this search and disclosure. Often the most entertaining is when the company doesn't have a License from the Data Protection Registrar or it doesn't cover the area stated, you then start at fines of ?10k plus for each issue.

PM me if you want any more assistance.


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