# Second honeymoon?



## Andra Gabriela (Apr 14, 2021)

Hello everyone,

Hope you are all well. I was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes a little over a year ago but I feel like I still have so much to learn.
I am going through a bit of a weird diabetic situation and was wondering if anyone else went through it: a few months after starting my insulin treatment I started getting a lot of hypos. After many insulin dosage reductions the nurses advised me that I am going through a honeymoon period and for a little while stopped the insulin shots completely. My sugar levels were alright for a while until slowly but surely my body needed a little insulin to stay within the normal range. I thought that my honeymoon period was over so I started to slowly go back on insulin ( Basal Lantus 6 and occasionally at breakfast 2units of Humalog if I are something long lasting like porridge.  However, over the last couple of weeks my sugars started dropping really fast. A  main meal with 50 grams of carbs and no insulin wouldn’t last me for even 2h. I constantly needed juice/gummy bears for any small effort. If I ate a sandwich at 12 :00 and shopped for some groceries my sugars would have suddenly dropped to 4.0  at 13:00. I measure my levels constantly with my libre so I avoid hypos really well but I still find it difficult cu snack so much just to be able to do very basic activities. I reduced my insulin again, currently only taking 2units of lantus. Has anyone else got such a long honeymoon period or suddenly went back into remission ? I am taken back by my diabetic nurses team who usually offer little to no support. Any advice would be much appreciated!

thank you!


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## Inka (Apr 14, 2021)

Hi @Andra Gabriela  I had a long honeymoon period - a few years. I don’t remember exactly because I’ve been diagnosed many years now, but I too had a phase when I could not take insulin. I was also on a tiny amount of basal - just one unit!

My consultant said that although it wasn’t common, it wasn’t that unusual either. I think Type 1 presents in different ways sometimes. Certainly some people have long honeymoons.

Has anything happened in the last couple of weeks that could have contributed? Eg after my Covid vaccination, I had weeks of fighting to keep my sugars up and reduced my boluses by 25%.


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## Andra Gabriela (Apr 14, 2021)

Inka said:


> Hi @Andra Gabriela  I had a long honeymoon period - a few years. I don’t remember exactly because I’ve been diagnosed many years now, but I too had a phase when I could not take insulin. I was also on a tiny amount of basal - just one unit!
> 
> My consultant said that although it wasn’t common, it wasn’t that unusual either. I think Type 1 presents in different ways sometimes. Certainly some people have long honeymoons.
> 
> Has anything happened in the last couple of weeks that could have contributed? Eg after my Covid vaccination, I had weeks of fighting to keep my sugars up and reduced my boluses by 25%.


Hi Inka,

Thank you so much for your reply! It’s definitely useful to hear you’re not alone. How do you feel after your vaccination? I haven’t booked it yet to be honest .

As per my sugar levels, I did not make any changes in my diet/ exercise, on the opposite I just started eating more to compensate for the potential hypos that I am trying to prevent.


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## Inka (Apr 14, 2021)

I felt fine after my vaccination. My arm was achy and tender for a couple of days but that was all, apart from the low blood sugars  

What you could think about is swapping to a twice daily basal if you feel it might help you. Something like Levemir allows you to have a different dose for the day and for the night. That way you can reduce one without affecting the other time period. It gives more flexibility. You can also just use one dose of Levemir.

As long as you’re managing ok, I’d just enjoy your honeymoon. Watch for any changes in your sugars and be ready to respond.


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## Andra Gabriela (Apr 14, 2021)

Inka said:


> I felt fine after my vaccination. My arm was achy and tender for a couple of days but that was all, apart from the low blood sugars
> 
> What you could think about is swapping to a twice daily basal if you feel it might help you. Something like Levemir allows you to have a different dose for the day and for the night. That way you can reduce one without affecting the other time period. It gives more flexibility. You can also just use one dose of Levemir.
> 
> As long as you’re managing ok, I’d just enjoy your honeymoon. Watch for any changes in your sugars and be ready to respond.


I am on lantus and only taking 2units but will wait to see how my body reacts. Currently it’s a bit of an inconvenience because whenever it drops under 5 I feel unable to walk/continue tasks. But thank you for the advice! Much appreciate it


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## trophywench (Apr 14, 2021)

@Andra Gabriela - just curious - which exact version of Humulin are you on ?  just wondering as it's not very modern.


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## Andra Gabriela (Apr 14, 2021)

trophywench said:


> @Andra Gabriela - just curious - which exact version of Humulin are you on ?  just wondering as it's not very modern.


Hi there, these are my insulin pens.


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## Andra Gabriela (Apr 14, 2021)

trophywench said:


> @Andra Gabriela - just curious - which exact version of Humulin are you on ?  just wondering as it's not very modern.


Although atm I’m only taking lantus ( 2units). Completely stopped the humalog


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## rebrascora (Apr 14, 2021)

trophywench said:


> @Andra Gabriela - just curious - which exact version of Humulin are you on ?  just wondering as it's not very modern.


Jenny, she is using Humalog not Humulin


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## trophywench (Apr 14, 2021)

AAh - Humalog not Humulin.  Sorry - you did say ~log not ~lin, dunno why I mis read the word.


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## Andra Gabriela (Apr 14, 2021)

trophywench said:


> AAh - Humalog not Humulin.  Sorry - you did say ~log not ~lin, dunno why I mis read the word.


That’s alright


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## Lucy Honeychurch (Apr 15, 2021)

All I'm saying is, I had a nightmare with my levels until I went on to pump therapy.


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## Andra Gabriela (Apr 15, 2021)

Lucy Honeychurch said:


> All I'm saying is, I had a nightmare with my levels until I went on to pump therapy.


Thank you for the suggestion but I don’t think I qualify for one and tbh I feel much comfortable with pens. A pump would be a constant reminder of my diabetes and would mentally break me ( just my personal idea please don’t take it personally !)


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## rebrascora (Apr 15, 2021)

We have a long standing member @Northerner ( I believe a founder of the Forum) who, if I remember correctly, no longer needs basal insulin but does still require bolus insulin for meals. Not exactly a second honeymoon but just to show that diabetes is highly individual and you just have to learn to manage your own variety to the best of your ability and adapt as your body changes, which can sometimes mean more insulin or less or even none.


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## Northerner (Apr 15, 2021)

rebrascora said:


> We have a long standing member @Northerner ( I believe a founder of the Forum) who, if I remember correctly, no longer needs basal insulin but does still require bolus insulin for meals. Not exactly a second honeymoon but just to show that diabetes is highly individual and you just have to learn to manage your own variety to the best of your ability and adapt as your body changes, which can sometimes mean more insulin or less or even none.


Indeed. I was diagnosed in 2008 and started on lantus and novorapid. After about 18 months I started having to reduce my insulin doses significantly, particularly the lantus. I went from 20 units of lantus at diagnosis all the way down to 2 units after about 3.5 years, then decided to stop it entirely, particularly because I was waking in the 4s and wanted to avoid night hypos. My consultant at the time said I would probably need to go back on it, but almost 9 years later I still don't need basal  I still need novorapid to cover carbs, but it seems my pancreas is producing sufficient insulin to cover my basal needs. I have come across maybe half a dozen other people here on the forum over the years who have been in a similar position, including one person who stopped needing any insulin at all - she just has the occasional half a gliclizide tablet if needed (gliclizide stimulates the pancreas to produce more insulin, might be worth asking your team whether it's an option  ). It's rare, but as you can see, perfectly possible and fine - the amount of insulin you need is whatever keeps your levels in a good place, whether that's a couple of units, no units at all, or 100 units!  

Have you had a recent C-peptide test to see how much insulin your pancreas is producing? I had one a couple of years ago and apparently I am producing a 'reasonable' amount, more than 95% of Type 1s.


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## Andra Gabriela (Apr 15, 2021)

Northerner said:


> Indeed. I was diagnosed in 2008 and started on lantus and novorapid. After about 18 months I started having to reduce my insulin doses significantly, particularly the lantus. I went from 20 units of lantus at diagnosis all the way down to 2 units after about 3.5 years, then decided to stop it entirely, particularly because I was waking in the 4s and wanted to avoid night hypos. My consultant at the time said I would probably need to go back on it, but almost 9 years later I still don't need basal  I still need novorapid to cover carbs, but it seems my pancreas is producing sufficient insulin to cover my basal needs. I have come across maybe half a dozen other people here on the forum over the years who have been in a similar position, including one person who stopped needing any insulin at all - she just has the occasional half a gliclizide tablet if needed (gliclizide stimulates the pancreas to produce more insulin, might be worth asking your team whether it's an option  ). It's rare, but as you can see, perfectly possible and fine - the amount of insulin you need is whatever keeps your levels in a good place, whether that's a couple of units, no units at all, or 100 units!
> 
> Have you had a recent C-peptide test to see how much insulin your pancreas is producing? I had one a couple of years ago and apparently I am producing a 'reasonable' amount, more than 95% of Type 1s.


Thank you! That’s so interesting! Does your sugars drop if you’re just walking around too? unf I don’t remember my peptide results, will have to check


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## Inka (Apr 16, 2021)

Andra Gabriela said:


> Thank you for the suggestion but I don’t think I qualify for one and tbh I feel much comfortable with pens. A pump would be a constant reminder of my diabetes and would mentally break me ( just my personal idea please don’t take it personally !)



A pump isn’t for everyone, but I thought just like you - until I got one! I thought a pump would be like a ball and chain but in fact it gave me my freedom back and made me feel normal for the first time since diagnosis. I also thought it would be a reminder of my diabetes, but, of course, the truth is we  can never forget about our diabetes. Four or five injections a day are a big reminder but it’s in our heads anyway.

The beauty of a pump is that you can exactly match your basal needs. You can vary it hour by hour, reduce it for exercise, increase it for illness, etc. I don’t notice my pump at all. In fact, I sometimes check to see if I’m wearing it! It’s tiny, I can’t feel it, and I’m not aware of it. It gave me my life back.


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## Andra Gabriela (Apr 16, 2021)

Inka said:


> A pump isn’t for everyone, but I thought just like you - until I got one! I thought a pump would be like a ball and chain but in fact it gave me my freedom back and made me feel normal for the first time since diagnosis. I also thought it would be a reminder of my diabetes, but, of course, the truth is we  can never forget about our diabetes. Four or five injections a day are a big reminder but it’s in our heads anyway.
> 
> The beauty of a pump is that you can exactly match your basal needs. You can vary it hour by hour, reduce it for exercise, increase it for illness, etc. I don’t notice my pump at all. In fact, I sometimes check to see if I’m wearing it! It’s tiny, I can’t feel it, and I’m not aware of it. It gave me my life back.


Thank you for your in depth explanation, I do appreciate it. I’ll consider anything that makes me function properly at the right time. Given the fact that I’m only on one shot a day now I’ll continue my lantus until my body says otherwise


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## everydayupsanddowns (Apr 18, 2021)

Welcome to the forum @Andra Gabriela 

Glad you have found your ‘tribe’ and seen that you aren’t alone in your slightly unusual experience of T1.

To be honest, I think the only truly impossible version of T1 would be one that behaved like the textbooks say it should all the time! We all have to get to know the strange quirks and oddities of our individual diabetes experience - all the workarounds and exceptions to the ’rules’ that work for us


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## Northerner (Apr 18, 2021)

Andra Gabriela said:


> Thank you! That’s so interesting! Does your sugars drop if you’re just walking around too? unf I don’t remember my peptide results, will have to check


I used to before I got the Libre, now it helps me to pre-empt  any lows. I sometimes need substantial amounts of extra carbs when going for a long walk - I find I have to plan my novorapid doses based much more on planned physical activity than carb amounts. My novorapid requirements can vary a lot and can change significantly almost overnight. Over a period of weeks I might go from 5 units a day to 20, and vice versa. As a comparison, when I was diagnosed I was put on 20 units of lantus and 45 units of novorapid, which would probably kill me now!  I think there are many reasons for my requirements falling - my body was in a state at diagnosis as I had DKA and lost 18 pounds in 3 days, BMI was around 17  As I got used to the 'new me' I was able to get back into my running, which significantly improved my insulin sensitivity, plus, of course, I adapted my diet to reduce my carb intake, and largely stopped consuming 'high impact' carbs that were difficult to predict and inject for. For some reason, in me, I think my pancreas must have made a slow recovery which I have been able to maintain. Human beings are incredibly complex and I often think people - including healthcare professionals - are too ready to accept the rather crude definitions we assign to chronic conditions (particularly Type 2 diabetes, which has an even broader range of factors). There are so many individual factors involved that there is really only one expert on your particular take on diabetes - you!


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## Andra Gabriela (Apr 20, 2021)

Northerner said:


> I used to before I got the Libre, now it helps me to pre-empt  any lows. I sometimes need substantial amounts of extra carbs when going for a long walk - I find I have to plan my novorapid doses based much more on planned physical activity than carb amounts. My novorapid requirements can vary a lot and can change significantly almost overnight. Over a period of weeks I might go from 5 units a day to 20, and vice versa. As a comparison, when I was diagnosed I was put on 20 units of lantus and 45 units of novorapid, which would probably kill me now!  I think there are many reasons for my requirements falling - my body was in a state at diagnosis as I had DKA and lost 18 pounds in 3 days, BMI was around 17  As I got used to the 'new me' I was able to get back into my running, which significantly improved my insulin sensitivity, plus, of course, I adapted my diet to reduce my carb intake, and largely stopped consuming 'high impact' carbs that were difficult to predict and inject for. For some reason, in me, I think my pancreas must have made a slow recovery which I have been able to maintain. Human beings are incredibly complex and I often think people - including healthcare professionals - are too ready to accept the rather crude definitions we assign to chronic conditions (particularly Type 2 diabetes, which has an even broader range of factors). There are so many individual factors involved that there is really only one expert on your particular take on diabetes - you!


Thank you so much for the in depth clarification. I am currently on no insulin whatsoever after going low too often and it’s much better. I am wondering if you can still get a hypo without insulin since I’m always trying to snack if I go under 6-7. I have a libre too and it’s so useful but sometimes I don’t trust it ( for ex today libre was very behind giving me a reading of 8 and by finger prick I was 5.6!)


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## Northerner (Apr 21, 2021)

Andra Gabriela said:


> Thank you so much for the in depth clarification. I am currently on no insulin whatsoever after going low too often and it’s much better. I am wondering if you can still get a hypo without insulin since I’m always trying to snack if I go under 6-7. I have a libre too and it’s so useful but sometimes I don’t trust it ( for ex today libre was very behind giving me a reading of 8 and by finger prick I was 5.6!)


It's possible to go below 4.0 even if you have not injected any insulin - I believe a non-diabetic healthy person would normally be in the range of 3.3-6.5 mmol/l. It is possible for non-diabetic people to go even lower, but usually only in extreme circumstances. The body will normally prevent the body falling below the 'safe' range by either stopping insulin production or stimulating the liver to release more glucose - or both - to keep levels up  The problem with injected insulin is that it can continue to drive your levels down past that 'safe' point as you can't 'uninject' it. If you haven't injected then you don't need to be concerned  I can still remember how the stress lifted from me when I stopped the lantus completely, because it meant I was now safe from overnight hypos - I hadn't realised how much it was playing on my subconscious!   

The Libre is good, but if you are ever concerned or it doesn't match how you feel it's best to confirm your levels with a blood test. The sensors normally read about 1-2 mmol/l below actual blood levels for me, so I try to take that into account  Personally, I'm happy with levels between 4.0 and 10.0 mmol/l and am generally in this range about 98% of the time (nobody's perfect!  )


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## Andra Gabriela (Apr 22, 2021)

Northerner said:


> It's possible to go below 4.0 even if you have not injected any insulin - I believe a non-diabetic healthy person would normally be in the range of 3.3-6.5 mmol/l. It is possible for non-diabetic people to go even lower, but usually only in extreme circumstances. The body will normally prevent the body falling below the 'safe' range by either stopping insulin production or stimulating the liver to release more glucose - or both - to keep levels up  The problem with injected insulin is that it can continue to drive your levels down past that 'safe' point as you can't 'uninject' it. If you haven't injected then you don't need to be concerned  I can still remember how the stress lifted from me when I stopped the lantus completely, because it meant I was now safe from overnight hypos - I hadn't realised how much it was playing on my subconscious!
> 
> The Libre is good, but if you are ever concerned or it doesn't match how you feel it's best to confirm your levels with a blood test. The sensors normally read about 1-2 mmol/l below actual blood levels for me, so I try to take that into account  Personally, I'm happy with levels between 4.0 and 10.0 mmol/l and am generally in this range about 98% of the time (nobody's perfect!  )


98%? You’re my new hero. That’s amazing. And thank you so much for the in depth explanation it really calmed. Hopefully one day I’ll manage my t1d as good as you!


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