# too many carbs?



## caffeine_demon (Feb 22, 2011)

Hi,

I've just downloaded the rather nice "cron o meter" http://spaz.ca/cronometer/, assumed a 2,000 calorie diet  and entered my eaties for today (including what I'm gonna have for tea).  results look ok, but I think there may be too many carbs. (I did have orange juice instead of my usual grapefruit this morning)

Energy               |  1687.9 kcal    84%
Protein              |    80.5 g      144% (56g recommended)
Carbs                |   228.2 g      176% (130g recommended)
  Fiber              |    30.7 g       81%
Fat                  |    57.9 g       89%

so - if I cut out the excess protein and carbs, and up the fat, that will be about 350 cals less - which seems very low - unless there's another source of calories!

any thoughts?  BG levels have been ok so far.


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## Lairyfairy (Feb 22, 2011)

I'll be very interested to find out the answer to this too Demon .  I sometimes wonder what I can eat if it doesn't include too many carbs.

Lairy x


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## Alan S (Feb 23, 2011)

caffeine_demon said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've just downloaded the rather nice "cron o meter" http://spaz.ca/cronometer/, assumed a 2,000 calorie diet  and entered my eaties for today (including what I'm gonna have for tea).  results look ok, but I think there may be too many carbs. (I did have orange juice instead of my usual grapefruit this morning)
> 
> ...


I like CRON-o-meter, it's a useful tool.

What foods did you decide to cut and add? Ignore the recommended percentages, those are based on the idiotic American Dietetic Association low-fat high-carb guidelines.  You may find Gannon and Nuttall's work to be interesting reading for some alternative ideas on appropriate proportions for a type 2 diabetic: *Control of blood glucose in type 2 diabetes without weight loss by modification of diet composition*

Based on your calculations the carbs are very high, the protein fine and the fats seem low.

Juice in the morning? Seriously? I'm not that brave. What does your meter show you an hour after breakfast?


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## HelenM (Feb 23, 2011)

> so - if I cut out the excess protein and carbs, and up the fat, that will be about 350 cals less - which seems very low - unless there's another source of calories!
> 
> any thoughts? BG levels have been ok so far


 Just a  couple of points, though I'll leave others to comment on the carb content; Firstly,  the Cron o meter was written to be a tool for those who practive CRON: calorific restriction with   optimal nutrition. As such it will give you recommended minimum amounts for each nutrient.  Secondly, one days intake may not be totally  representative... this might have been a very low fat/high carb day  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRON-diet


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## caffeine_demon (Feb 23, 2011)

From Helen..
*Firstly, the Cron o meter was written to be a tool for those who practive CRON: calorific restriction with optimal nutrition
*

That makes the initial settings even more surprising - when I entered my weight and height it said I needed about 3,500 cals!! even when I was at my largest I'd have struggled to get that!




Alan S said:


> I like CRON-o-meter, it's a useful tool.
> 
> What foods did you decide to cut and add? Ignore the recommended percentages, those are based on the idiotic American Dietetic Association low-fat high-carb guidelines.  You may find Gannon and Nuttall's work to be interesting reading for some alternative ideas on appropriate proportions for a type 2 diabetic: *Control of blood glucose in type 2 diabetes without weight loss by modification of diet composition*



the figures wsere based on a quick calculation of 4 cals/gram of carbs taken out, and 7 cals / gram of fat added - I have seen slight variations on these figures.



> Based on your calculations the carbs are very high, the protein fine and the fats seem low.



I did have a little more for supper - some carrots, and I added some low fat creme fraiche + mushrooms to my dinner (oh - and an extra dollop of that yummy yoghurt!)



> Juice in the morning? Seriously? I'm not that brave. What does your meter show you an hour after breakfast?



it was 10.5 - a bit higher than when I'd had it before, this morning was 9.3, after a slightly smaller glass - although I had also had an apple on both occasions - it looks as if I need to limit OJ though.  - (an hour later today and it's 6)

but - assuming the oj spike is sorted, and my other readings are ok (under 9 after eating) - should I be concerned about the high carbs???


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## macast (Feb 23, 2011)

it's just a minefield


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## Mark T (Feb 23, 2011)

Alan S said:


> I like CRON-o-meter, it's a useful tool.
> You may find Gannon and Nuttall's work to be interesting reading for some alternative ideas on appropriate proportions for a type 2 diabetic: *Control of blood glucose in type 2 diabetes without weight loss by modification of diet composition*


I'm sure that would make some DSN's/GP's have steam come out of there ears.  Eating sugar cubes is potentially better then eating potatoes and bread  because sugar is only 50% glucose.


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## pippin (Feb 23, 2011)

macast said:


> it's just a minefield


 I totally agree as the more I read the more I get confused  I take far too long shopping now as I spend more time reading labels. Next appointment with dietician I am going to have so many questions. Somedays I feel totally exhausted just trying to make meals wondering if I should be counting SO much. I am the one who ends up dizzy with the energy I use up...really I do.


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## Northerner (Feb 23, 2011)

pippin said:


> I totally agree as the more I read the more I get confused  I take far too long shopping now as I spend more time reading labels. Next appointment with dietician I am going to have so many questions. Somedays I feel totally exhausted just trying to make meals wondering if I should be counting SO much. I am the one who ends up dizzy with the energy I use up...really I do.



Pippin, it will come in time, with experience - your hard work now will pay dividends in the future


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## pippin (Feb 23, 2011)

Thank you Northerner your support is appreciated as it is more difficult than I thought. Hopefully the course next Friday will give more details on diet rules. Keeping a balanced menu in focus atm & explaining labels to dad so he doesn't think I am too strict  thank you hopefully things will get easier as the diet is healthy just didn't realise the details about the carbs bit. Label reading is an education!


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## Northerner (Feb 23, 2011)

pippin said:


> Thank you Northerner your support is appreciated as it is more difficult than I thought. Hopefully the course next Friday will give more details on diet rules. Keeping a balanced menu in focus atm & explaining labels to dad so he doesn't think I am too strict  thank you hopefully things will get easier as the diet is healthy just didn't realise the details about the carbs bit. Label reading is an education!



The thing I find difficult is when the nutritional info is printed in tiny text, as my eyesight is not what it used to be! In fact, I wrote a poem about it:

http://diabetespoetry.blogspot.com/2009/05/please-mr-food-man.html


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## bev (Feb 23, 2011)

Northerner said:


> The thing I find difficult is when the nutritional info is printed in tiny text, as my eyesight is not what it used to be! In fact, I wrote a poem about it:
> 
> http://diabetespoetry.blogspot.com/2009/05/please-mr-food-man.html



Hi Northerner,

Good poem and so true. About six months after Alex was diagnosed I had to get a pair of new glasses for reading all the small print - it is so tiny that I couldnt read it without glasses.Bev


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## Northerner (Feb 23, 2011)

bev said:


> Hi Northerner,
> 
> Good poem and so true. About six months after Alex was diagnosed I had to get a pair of new glasses for reading all the small print - it is so tiny that I couldnt read it without glasses.Bev



I've actually bought a magnifying glass for some packaging! There's really no excuse for it - there is usually more than enough blank space on the packaging to make it clear and readable. I once felt really old when I went to the shop and had to ask the young assistant to read it out to me!


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## heasandford (Feb 23, 2011)

not sure whether  should stick my oar in here, as I am not Type 2 and this might not help. But I am a food scientist, so the calculations etc I do comprehend!

Every g of fat contains 9 calories (kcal), every g of carb contains 3.75 calories, and every g of protein contains 4 calories. Calories are a measure of energy. 

We all have to balance the 3 types of food (Protein, carbohydrate and fat) to provide a 'healthy' diet, along with enough liquid, vitamins and minerals, fibre, sufficient calories and so on. 

The next bit is the possibly controversial stuff! 
Human digestion is based on carbohydrates for energy, because we easily break down carbs into glucose molecules. Fat is also used for energy (as well as other things), especially since it contains so many calories,  however current wisdom for a healthy diet says that we shouldn't eat more than 30% of our calories from fat (and no more than 10% from saturated fat) - because too much fat can clog our blood vessels and lead to CVD.  (Although as we all know more carbs than we need for energy are also converted into fat!) It doesn't for Arctic dwellers because they need all those calories to keep warm and just can?t get enough calories from carbs. Protein contains different molecules, designed for ?building? and repairing our body bits, like muscle, skin etc. It can be broken down for energy if needed, but it is a different digestive process and leaves more waste which the kidneys have to process. So it?s recommended we don?t eat more than we need for that

This is what your current food looks like - 

 	         g	    cals	%
Protein	80.5	    322	19.0%
Carbs	        228.2	    856	50.4%
Fat	        57.9	    521	30.7%
Energy 	 	    1699	 

I think this looks alright, but I know that type 2s have to watch their carb intake, but does that mean that calorie intake stays the same and is replaced by the other groups? This I can?t answer, but I?m sure your dietician will ? and possibly someone else here will put me right!


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## heasandford (Feb 23, 2011)

oops, was this too long? sorry, and sorry if it's too complicated


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## Adrienne (Feb 23, 2011)

heasandford said:


> oops, was this too long? sorry, and sorry if it's too complicated



Very very interesting and just totally confirmed what my ex personal trainer told me.   She said I need to eat more carbs.   (I'm not diabetic by the way just hugely overweight).   I said that lots of people eat less carbs to lose weight.   She said that because I was exercising I needed to eat the carbs to burn the right stuff.

She did say all this technically and that is basically what I understood although haven't explained it well.   But she said what you did so thank you.


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## caffeine_demon (Feb 24, 2011)

out of interest, I entered a sample day based on the guide at https://www.diabetes.org.uk/upload/How we help/catalogue/EatingWell_T2.pdf - those amounts of carbs are insane!

I'd entered a dummy diet based on all the maximums, but with just 7 portions of carbs - my breakdown was 321g carbs! When I'd added 7 slices of bread, to bring it up to the 14 portions - and it's 445  - I'd struggle to eat those if I was on my old diet!


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## Nicky1970 (Feb 24, 2011)

My GP seems obsessed with the idea of my weight coming down, and yes I am obese. I'm not supposed to be testing according to the gospel of Sussex Downs PCT, I get no help with test strips, therefore I'm guessing weight control is more in keeping with the health authority's objectives on amputations, blindness and dialysis?
I've cut back on carbs. Use oil and margarine sparingly. Low fat cheddar as an occasional treat. Walk or cycle everyday. This is helping to improve my BG and assisiting gradual weight loss.
I'm fairly certain that in Becker's book, she mentions that research has indicated only the first four or so pounds of weight loss actually lowers insulin resistance. After that, insulin resitance is a product of the diabetes itself.


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## pippin (Feb 24, 2011)

Northerner said:


> The thing I find difficult is when the nutritional info is printed in tiny text, as my eyesight is not what it used to be! In fact, I wrote a poem about it:
> 
> http://diabetespoetry.blogspot.com/2009/05/please-mr-food-man.html


 Excellent I love it  I have been meaning to go to your blog so now I have been I will add it to my RSS for Reeder on my iPhone  Oh I have read your Low GI one too! I was sad today but this had made me smile, thank you.

I am about to read all the information posted on carbs by heasandford


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## pippin (Feb 24, 2011)

heasandford said:


> oops, was this too long? sorry, and sorry if it's too complicated


 Thank you I think this means I can balance my dad's diet with the carbs he needs unless we are told otherwise after his next big test.


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## heasandford (Feb 24, 2011)

You are such a helpful daughter, I hope I haven't confused the issue and best of luck with his next test - no-one could get more help & support than you are giving!


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## pippin (Feb 24, 2011)

Thank you! I have thought about your post and it is helping both of us. I'm only giving back to my dad all the care he has given to me I enjoy caring for everyone & am grateful for all the advice given up here to help me care


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## Northerner (Feb 24, 2011)

pippin said:


> Excellent I love it  I have been meaning to go to your blog so now I have been I will add it to my RSS for Reeder on my iPhone  Oh I have read your Low GI one too! I was sad today but this had made me smile, thank you.
> 
> I am about to read all the information posted on carbs by heasandford



Glad you like the poems  There are (believe it or not!) a lot of very funny situations related to diabetes - it's a great source of inspiration!


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## Alan S (Feb 24, 2011)

caffeine_demon said:


> the figures wsere based on a quick calculation of 4 cals/gram of carbs taken out, and 7 cals / gram of fat added - I have seen slight variations on these figures.


I've always used 9 kcals for fats.


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