# The Diabetes Code by Dr Jason Fung



## Martin9 (May 31, 2018)

This book deals with Type 2 diabetes and is written by Dr Jason Fung who is recognised as one of the worlds leading experts on fasting for weight loss and Type 2 diabetes reversal.
He argues that conventional treatments that rely on insulin and or other blood glucose lowering agents can actually exacerbate the problem leading to significant weight gain and even heart disease. The only way to treat Type 2 diabetes effectively, he argues, is proper dieting and intermittent fasting - not medication.

I found this book a great and entertaining read which challenges some of the most commonly held beliefs surrounding diet and treatment of type 2 diabetes .


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## trophywench (Jun 1, 2018)

Well that's all very well but if a T2's pancreas has packed up producing enough insulin to sustain the persons life - they can't really avoid the need for injected insulin.

Hopefully he's just talking about the ones who can still produce plenty !


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## Martin9 (Jun 1, 2018)

He argues, with supporting evidence that beta cell dysfunction in the pancreas is reversible, with dietary changes..by giving insulin it causes weight gain, fatty liver and pancreas, and further insulin resistance by the fatty muscles.
He explains this much better in the book than I can, I suggest anyone to read this book,  but if the person wants to carry on eating as normal , I agree there is little choice than to prescribe insulin .


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## conundrum (Oct 7, 2018)

I think Jason Fung has some very sound ideas, and the idea that it's possible to reverse Type 2 Diabetes by following Low Carb High Fat rings true to me. I've been trying out Intermittant Fasting, coupled with Low Carb, and so far the results are encouraging. The acid test, of course, will be the HB1AC blood test which I'm scheduled to take on November 3rd. I confidently expect a better result this time....


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## travellor (Oct 7, 2018)

Sadly, there seems to be no real proof of his idea. 
It may come.
His diet  may have some merit, and indeed low carb for life will certainly reduce hba1c, if you can stick with it.

But for balance,  have a look at Professor Roy Taylor's solution. 
It's free online, "Newcastle diet" a fairly similar concept.
With proven results for reversal


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## Martin9 (Oct 8, 2018)

conundrum said:


> I think Jason Fung has some very sound ideas, and the idea that it's possible to reverse Type 2 Diabetes by following Low Carb High Fat rings true to me. I've been trying out Intermittant Fasting, coupled with Low Carb, and so far the results are encouraging. The acid test, of course, will be the HB1AC blood test which I'm scheduled to take on November 3rd. I confidently expect a better result this time....


I cut my HbA1c from 77 to 35 in 3 months so hope it works for you too @conundrum, but we’re all different so what works for one may not work for another, but keep at it.


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## conundrum (Oct 8, 2018)

travellor said:


> Sadly, there seems to be no real proof of his idea.
> It may come.
> His diet  may have some merit, and indeed low carb for life will certainly reduce hba1c, if you can stick with it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this, Travellor, I'll certainly read up more on the Newcastle Diet, its one of the many studies that Dr Fung refers to on his books. My plan is to lose a substantial amount of weight via 'time restricted feeding' (a much more user friendly label than 'fasting') coupled with low carb high fat, then move onto a more 'normal' eating regime once the weight is off. I'm painfully aware that losing weight is the easy part.... It's keeping it off long term that's been difficult for me, but if I try to stick to lazy low carb in general, and fasting two days out of seven then I think I've a fighting chance of keeping it up long term. And most importantly, keep the prospect of full type two diabetes at bay.
Ask me in a year how it's going oing


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## Ralph-YK (Oct 8, 2018)

Does insulin = weight gain.  I know lots of people (non diabetics) who have insulin in there system and are not fat, are thin, even skinny.
What insulin does do is allow our bodies use the glucose that's in our bodies.  And if we have a lot of that, then we _may_ put on weight.


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## trophywench (Oct 8, 2018)

Everyone who is alive has insulin in their bodies LOL

I was saying 'not producing enough insulin to stay alive' - ie because their pancreas has organ failure for whatever reason that happens to be - if a normal human being needs approx. 10u a day to survive as my consultant told us on our Carb counting course, then if it needs to produce more long term at some point it's absolutely going to struggle so even with treating the underlying cause of that - unless it's done soon enough it's going to need the extraneous sort in order to sustain life, is all I meant.

I've never met an adult T1 on as little as 10u a day - even though one heck of a lot of us still produce a tiny amount ourselves including very elderly people diagnosed as babies.  Hence I cannot imagine a world where NO T2 ever needs extraneous insulin.  That's all.


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## Ljc (Oct 9, 2018)

Thank you @Ralph-YK  and [USER=937]@trophywench .[/USER]


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## Ljc (Oct 9, 2018)

It’s not insulin that makes us put on weight, if that was the case everyone alive diabetic or not would be overweight, insulin is a natural hormone that non diabetics produce naturally.
Apart from some medical conditions and some other meds that can cause weight gain  it’s basically overeating that puts on weight. 

TBH I get really fed up reading /hearing that us T2s shouldn’t  be on insulin , that if only we cut out carbs and exersized more etc etc. 
If our Pancreas is clapped out , possibly caused by years of meds that’s forced it to overwork , or just the simple fact that for many of us, no matter how hard we try, T2 diabetes is a progressive condition.

I do not require gallons of insulin daily as I don’t have  much insulin resistance.

Please remember we are all different and have different needs.


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## travellor (Oct 9, 2018)

Benny G said:


> I can't think of a single medical condition nor any meds that cause weight gain without the addition of food. On the other hand there are many illnesses and meds that cause drastic weight loss despite constant overeating. Type 1 diabetes without injecting sufficient insulin.
> When I inject too much insulin i get low blood sugar and have to eat carbs. If that happens often enough i will gain weight. If I injected daily, twice as much insulin as i usually require, I would have to eat extra food to feed the insulin. That's what happens with insulin resistance. Having too much circulating insulin increases hunger levels which leads to overeating which causes the weight gain.
> This rule is the same for all who inject insulin.
> Inject more insulin to gain weight, inject less insulin to lose weight.
> ...



You will have to correct me if I'm wrong, but are the majority of type 1's insulin resistant?

I won't speak for type 1's as I'm not one myself.

I will speak of me as I was a type 2 as diagnosis, so  as a type 2, yes, I do not use insulin effectively, as I am insulin resistant.

This means I do not effectively use all the insulin in my body at any particular time.
I also have higher blood sugar, (not lower) as my insulin resistance means I do not utilise this insulin effectively.
So I have higher insulin circulating, as the body compensates for the higher blood glucose by releasing more insulin.
Whether I produce insulin biologically, or inject, the utilisation will not change if my body remains the same.

Now you are saying you use your insulin effectively, and high insulin leads to lower blood glucose?
Which seems to be entirely different.

Thinking about it, if every type 2 is producing too much insulin, (which we do initially, eventually leading to possible burn out of the pancreas), shouldn't every type 2 be overweight?

I haven't read Fung, but if he has missed this difference, I wouldn't like to comment.


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## mikeyB (Oct 9, 2018)

Jason Fung was a nephrologist. (Kidney specialist). So he knows as much about dieting and diabetes from his medical experience as you or I do.

Just saying.


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## trophywench (Oct 9, 2018)

Well diabetes isn't one condition - it's a collection of shedloads of them!  The medical profession up at the very high end of it, already know about 300 variations of it - hence why nobody's D behaves exactly the same way as anyone else's.  T1 starts off very dramatically.  LADA - which is now more recognised by GPs, starts off exactly like any other T2 and then over time morfs into ending up much more like T1 even though it wasn't initially.  Lin's D is much more like that.

That's why it's so hard to get your head round and GPs have neither the time nor resources to thoroughly learn and know about every subtle nuance or discover what's absolutely the best way to treat every kind - so they lump em all in together under the banner T2.


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## travellor (Oct 9, 2018)

Benny G said:


> Type 1 diabetes is characterised by an actual lack of circulating insulin, usually caused by autoimmunity, additional insulin must be injected to stay alive.
> As others have stated, type 2 is an umbrella term which includes many and various subdivisions. Insulin resistance is one of several common features of type 2 diabetes.



So, completely different with regard to insulin then?
And then different again within even type 2's?


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## Ljc (Oct 9, 2018)

Benny G said:


> I can't think of a single medical condition nor any meds that cause weight gain without the addition of food. On the other hand there are many illnesses and meds that cause drastic weight loss despite constant overeating. Type 1 diabetes without injecting sufficient insulin.
> When I inject too much insulin i get low blood sugar and have to eat carbs. If that happens often enough i will gain weight. If I injected daily, twice as much insulin as i usually require, I would have to eat extra food to feed the insulin. That's what happens with insulin resistance. Having too much circulating insulin increases hunger levels which leads to overeating which causes the weight gain.
> This rule is the same for all who inject insulin.
> Inject more insulin to gain weight, inject less insulin to lose weight.
> ...


Well it works very well  for me. I’m not injecting much insulin at all now. Yesterday including basal was  10 units and I am definitely not starving myself 
That’s why I asked people to remember we are all different.

I’ve just got so completely fed up of people mostly medics and nurses assuming that I am a bad diabetic and that’s why I’m in insulin.  Of course I h@ve naughty days, I am only human, but I mostly behave myself food wise


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## travellor (Oct 9, 2018)

Benny G said:


> Mikey, I am a natural cynic. I prefer real world advice from actual diabetics. The reason I have been reading some of Fung's material, which is mostly associated with low carb and intermittent fasting, is because I have been pursuing low carb myself. So general reading around the several variations on a theme; keto, paleo, Mediterranean, low calorie, low carb.
> In my limited experience the intermittent fasting helps to reduce my glucose spikes and flatten out my glucose levels. By skipping meals when glucose is already too high and control is difficult it's two birds with one stone.



I can't find much history on him, not even a Wiki entry.
Is he type 1, or type 2?


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## travellor (Oct 9, 2018)

Benny G said:


> He is not diabetic, like the majority of professionals advising diabetic patients.
> 
> If you want advice from a Dr with diabetes, I recommend Dr Bernstein.


He I know is type 1, and it doesn't translate across to my experience of type 2 to be honest.


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## Ralph-YK (Oct 9, 2018)

travellor said:


> Now you are saying you use your insulin effectively, and high insulin leads to lower blood glucose?
> Which seems to be entirely different.


The insulin allows the body to use the glucose, so it goes down.  For T1, the issue is lack of insulin.  No insulin, the unused glucose builds up.  Add insulin, the glucose gets used and goes down.



travellor said:


> Thinking about it, if every type 2 is producing too much insulin, (which we do initially, eventually leading to possible burn out of the pancreas), shouldn't every type 2 be overweight?


T2's can have insulin resistance, which means it doesn't use the insulin effectively, so is unable to use all the glucose, and it builds up.  There may be more insulin (naturally, or injected).  As it's not used properly, it wouldn't have has much effect as for a T1.  However, I've heard of T2's where injecting has helped get the BG levels down.  It may mean gaining some weight, as they are now able to use the glucose.  It doesn't automatically mean getting fat.

What can happen, is a diet that didn't make you fat, after starting insulin starts to make you gain weight.  This is because you have actually started using the food.

As with non diabetics, it depends on things like diet.


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## travellor (Oct 9, 2018)

Ralph-YK said:


> The insulin allows the body to use the glucose, so it goes down.  For T1, the issue is lack of insulin.  No insulin, the unused glucose builds up.  Add insulin, the glucose gets used and goes down.
> 
> 
> T2's can have insulin resistance, which means it doesn't use the insulin effectively, so is unable to use all the glucose, and it builds up.  There may be more insulin (naturally, or injected).  As it's not used properly, it wouldn't have has much effect as for a T1.  However, I've heard of T2's where injecting has helped get the BG levels down.  It may mean gaining some weight, as they are now able to use the glucose.  It doesn't automatically mean getting fat.
> ...



With all those variables, how can one solution suit everyone?


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## Ljc (Oct 9, 2018)

travellor said:


> With all those variables, how can one solution suit everyone?


It doesn’t. Many of us suffer years of being a square peg being shoved into a round hole . That’s why forums like this one are so helpful, their are many experienced eyes reading posts, we each offer advise according to our own experiences/ knowledge.


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## travellor (Oct 9, 2018)

Ljc said:


> It doesn’t. Many of us suffer years of being a square peg being shoved into a round hole . That’s why forums like this one are so helpful, their are many experienced eyes reading posts, we each offer advise according to our own experiences/ knowledge.



I must admit, I think the same.


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## Eddy Edson (Oct 9, 2018)

https://www.newsweek.com/type-2-diabetes-treatment-intermittent-fasting-reverses-disease-1159579

A three-person study ... issuing hype-y PR's on the basis of something like this doesn't give me a warm feeling.

_Study author Dr. Jason Fung, of the Department of Medicine, Scarborough Hospital, Canada, told Newsweek: “This study show that a dietary intervention, therapeutic fasting, has the potential to completely reverse type 2 diabetes, even when somebody has suffered with the disease for 25 years. It changes everything about how we should treat the disease.”_


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## travellor (Oct 9, 2018)

Eddy Edson said:


> https://www.newsweek.com/type-2-diabetes-treatment-intermittent-fasting-reverses-disease-1159579
> 
> A three-person study ... issuing hype-y PR's on the basis of something like this doesn't give me a warm feeling.
> 
> _Study author Dr. Jason Fung, of the Department of Medicine, Scarborough Hospital, Canada, told Newsweek: “This study show that a dietary intervention, therapeutic fasting, has the potential to completely reverse type 2 diabetes, even when somebody has suffered with the disease for 25 years. It changes everything about how we should treat the disease.”_



No follow up, no mention of diet, and one of three was still on meds?
Not really his normal criteria for a success when the NHS prescibe drugs for diabetics.

And fasting is actually a low calorie diet, exactly as the Newcastle diet by Prof Taylor?

It seems a lot of re definitions apply here.


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## conundrum (Oct 10, 2018)

As advised by another poster on here I've been reading up on the Newcastle Diet, and its a very low calorie regime of about 800 calories a day. Very effective, the results are impressive. Dr Fungs theories seem to be based on this, but he advocates time restricted feeding, not calorie counting.
So it's when you eat, not what you eat, that is the main thrust of his argument. 
I'm a fan of Dr Fung, but I have to admit to being perturbed by this three person study. He refers to his results of this study in his book, but doesn't mantion the extremely low participant base. Disappointing. 
However, I'm cracking on with Intermittent Fasting as it seems to be working for me, and I'm hopeful of keeping the weight off long term by following this diet. 
But that study concerns me....


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## Ralph-YK (Oct 10, 2018)

travellor said:


> With all those variables, how can one solution suit everyone?


I've missed any suggestion of just one solution in this thread.  I'm just discussing insulin in relation to diabetes, bg  levels & wait gain.  No suggestion of it being the one, only or best solution for T2.


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## Pandora71 (Oct 29, 2019)

travellor said:


> Sadly, there seems to be no real proof of his idea.
> It may come.
> His diet  may have some merit, and indeed low carb for life will certainly reduce hba1c, if you can stick with it.
> 
> ...


FYI Virta Health trials are good proof of the pudding!  https://www.virtahealth.com/research   Virta offered standard of care to US patients versus a low carb diet (both remotely and got better metabolic results all round at 1 and 3 years.
An RCT is the gold standard obviously but there are plenty of N of 1 experiments going on out there and I think these options could be more widely offered to Type 2 patients given that NICE guidelines suggest an individualised approach. 
Some people prefer the simplicity of fasting, others might like the more drastic 800 kcals method (not really a similar concept  IMO)  and low carb is a very successful method for those looking for a permanent lifestyle solution without the need to count calories. It also works well for us type 1s!  All of the above trump the current EatWell plate advice which I think is highly inappropriate for most type 2s (High Carb, Low Fat).


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## ianf0ster (Nov 8, 2019)

Pandora71 said:


> FYI Virta Health trials are good proof of the pudding!  https://www.virtahealth.com/research   Virta offered standard of care to US patients versus a low carb diet (both remotely and got better metabolic results all round at 1 and 3 years.
> An RCT is the gold standard obviously but there are plenty of N of 1 experiments going on out there and I think these options could be more widely offered to Type 2 patients given that NICE guidelines suggest an individualised approach.
> Some people prefer the simplicity of fasting, others might like the more drastic 800 kcals method (not really a similar concept  IMO)  and low carb is a very successful method for those looking for a permanent lifestyle solution without the need to count calories. It also works well for us type 1s!  All of the above trump the current EatWell plate advice which I think is highly inappropriate for most type 2s (High Carb, Low Fat).



I disagree with earlier posters who say that the Intermittent Fasting and longer-term Fasting approach of Dr Jason Fung is equivalent to that used by Prof Roy Taylor in the DIRECT study (= Newcastle diet). There is a difference in the way the body reacts to Fasting to calorie restriction. Calorie restriction tend to lead to lean mass (protein being used as 'fuel' and leads to the resting metabolic rate reducing- which is why crash diets fail for the majority of people. However a fast actually mimics Low Carb (or vice versa) so the insulin drops enough for the body to start using its own stored excess body fat as fuel.

I agree that the Virta Health trials are impressive, but I'm much more impressed with Dr David Unwin's results at his GP surgery in Southport. he is @lowcarbGP on Twitter. 
Yes, I know he is associated with 'the other UK diabetes forum' but his figures are reported to the NHS. His Surgery not only had the lowest diabetic drugs cost per 1K patients in the UK, but also the highest Type 2 remission rate - 50% of those who tried his Low Carb advice had HbA1C down even out of pre-diabetic range and on no diabetes medication after 2yrs.

Personally I use both Low Carb High(er) Fat together with occasional Intermittent Fasting. Longer fasts wouldn't be suitable for me since I am a slim Type 2  - Thin Outside, Fat Inside = TOFI.

Dr Fung's patient at his Toronto clinic are nearly all Morbidly Obese, so they can fast for weeks at a time supplemented by micro nutrients.
They are also too poor to be able to afford a LCHF approach since vegies like Broccoli an leafy greens are very expensive there. 
So Fasting is their best option.


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## offspin (Oct 16, 2022)

Hi , This morning I watched a pod cast on YouTube given by Dr Berry.

I though certain areas could make sense but and always a but you need to be careful.

My brother !Ives in France and was in hospital for over a week and the doctors could not for sure decide what type of diabetic he was.( The food was excellent )


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## Leadinglights (Oct 16, 2022)

offspin said:


> Hi , This morning I watched a pod cast on YouTube given by Dr Berry.
> 
> I though certain areas could make sense but and always a but you need to be careful.
> 
> My brother !Ives in France and was in hospital for over a week and the doctors could not for sure decide what type of diabetic he was.( The food was excellent )


This is quite an old thread but I found the theory as explained in that book made lots of sense.


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## travellor (Oct 16, 2022)

Eat less,
lose weight.

Seems to be a running theme.
No one could disagree?


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