# Well, I went for it!



## Northerner (Apr 12, 2012)

I was 4.6 before bed last night, so I thought I would give it a go and reduce my lantus from one unit to...no units  I must admit, it was with a lot of trepidation and I actually found it quite unnatural not to be having my injection - I kept looking over to where my pen was and wanting to pick it up! A survival instinct I suppose, and a habit to break.

I felt a bit nervous as I tried to get to sleep, but managed it and woke up at about 2:00 am needing the loo, so I decided to test and see how things were going - I was 4.5 

And then, on waking this morning I am...4.3!!!!

Can't believe it. This is the first time since I was diagnosed that I haven't had any lantus before bed. Obviously I'm going to keep a close eye on things through the day and I'll let you know how things go 

Note: Do NOT follow my lead unless you are absolutely sure of what you are doing and in a similar situation to me, which I think is unlikely, as I'm obviously a freak!

Watch this space!


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## sandym (Apr 12, 2012)

That's amazing!  Are you going to keep it up?


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## FM001 (Apr 12, 2012)

Great numbers Northerner, will be interesting to see what your blood readings are over the next few days.


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## Northerner (Apr 12, 2012)

toby said:


> Great numbers Northerner, will be interesting to see what your blood readings are over the next few days.



I'm going to see how things go today before deciding whether to miss it again tonight. My readings before and after my run this morning were a little higher than in recent days, but it's hard to tell anything from that, could just be down to the timing of my novorapid and when I ate my breakfast in relation to my run. Levels stayed within 0.5 mmol/l for the run, which is what has been happening all this week. Have to admit I was astonished to see perfectly stable levels overnight!  I guess there'll be more 'liver action' during the day though, so my lunchtime reading should be interesting.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Apr 12, 2012)

Lantus being lantus, you won't really be 'clear' of it for a few days yet... But very interesting Alan. Perhaps you should put youself forward for some keen med researcher. You might be a whole new type!


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## imtrying (Apr 12, 2012)

lol I have a feeling this could be dangerous in the wrong hands!! Could you imagine it??? All we need is peope thinking good control can 'cure' diabetes!! (I know that's not what's happening Alan, but you can imagine the information in the wrong hands can't you!!)

well done on great results though! Fingers crossed for your levels during the day. Waking to 4.3 - it's just as well you didn't inject that Lantus!!!


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## Northerner (Apr 12, 2012)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Lantus being lantus, you won't really be 'clear' of it for a few days yet...



That thought has crossed my mind Mike, but having said that, just how much residual effect is there going to be when I have only been on one unit for months anyway I wonder?


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## Northerner (Apr 12, 2012)

imtrying said:


> lol I have a feeling this could be dangerous in the wrong hands!! Could you imagine it??? All we need is peope thinking good control can 'cure' diabetes!! (I know that's not what's happening Alan, but you can imagine the information in the wrong hands can't you!!)
> 
> well done on great results though! Fingers crossed for your levels during the day. Waking to 4.3 - it's just as well you didn't inject that Lantus!!!



If I was going to inject I would have eaten something before bed to raise my levels a bit, but thought that, given that I shouldn't have any active insulin then it ought to be OK to go to bed on a 4.6. 

I'm clearly very odd. I've been on this forum and others since I was diagnosed nearly 4 years ago and I don't think I've encountered anyone who has stopped their basal so long after diagnosis. It's not really as though it's been a honeymoon period either, since that (from what I have read) tends to mean erratic and unpredictable spurts of homegrown insulin, whereas my control has always bee good and a lot more predictable than most people I know.

Anyway, it's early days yet, and my levels might start rocketing before the end of the day so I'm not counting any chickens!


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## novorapidboi26 (Apr 12, 2012)

WOW, 

So do you think there is some insulin production still happening......?


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## Northerner (Apr 12, 2012)

novorapidboi26 said:


> WOW,
> 
> So do you think there is some insulin production still happening......?



There must be, I can't imagine my liver switches off overnight! I was half expecting to be in the 8s or 9s this morning!


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## ukjohn (Apr 12, 2012)

How very strange. I wonder, based on your findings, that if I reduce tonights Insulatard from 70 units to 69. if it will improve my fastings numbers. 


John.


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## Robster65 (Apr 12, 2012)

If you start to rise through the day (or tomorrow), will you try swapping lantus to the morning as the next step?

And if you don't see any appreciable rise, that would presumably be grounds enough for the surgery to do a c-peptide. If only to rule it out.

Maybe middle distance running is the "600 calorie diet" for type 1s!  

Rob


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## Persil (Apr 12, 2012)

Wow, that is really interesting!

So, depending on how the next few days go, you could only need fast acting insulin (please correct me if I'm wrong!). I know she's a type 1.5, but Lizzie only takes fast acting insulin as I'm sure background on top of the fast acting used to send her low all the time!

Vicki 
xxx


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## Pumper_Sue (Apr 12, 2012)

> I'm clearly very odd. I've been on this forum and others since I was diagnosed nearly 4 years ago and I don't think I've encountered anyone who has stopped their basal so long after diagnosis.



Nice to meet you Alan lol.
After 42 years on insulin I was able to stop my basal on a regular bases and still hypo.

Being able to do this though was due to lack of cortisol 

Has anything changed in your well being as in weight loss or feeling exhusted a lot?
If anything like that applies might be worth having a full blood panel done to include thyroid function (over active) and cortisol levels.

I do hope you are just cured though


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## Northerner (Apr 12, 2012)

Persil said:


> Wow, that is really interesting!
> 
> So, depending on how the next few days go, you could only need fast acting insulin (please correct me if I'm wrong!). I know she's a type 1.5, but Lizzie only takes fast acting insulin as I'm sure background on top of the fast acting used to send her low all the time!
> 
> ...



It's possible Vicki, yes. One of the reasons I wanted to try without the lantus was that I sometimes wake on the low side (4.x), plus I had a hypo the other night. The only reduction I can take is one unit at a time, so as I was only on one unit anyway, I ended up with nothing!

Still too early to tell whether my levels are raised today because of lack of lantus. Obviously I was fine overnight, but this morning I was 9.7 two hours after breakfast and before my run, rising to 10.1 after my run. I had a Belvita biscuit after the run (no insulin) as I usually do - it's about 8g carbs. I tested again an hour later and was 8.9, then an hour after that (5 hours after eating/injecting) I was 6.2. Just before lunch I had risen again slightly to 6.9, but this is normal for me in the mornings because it is over 6 hours since breakfast. Sometimes, even with the lantus and despite having been for a run, my levels are in the low 7s before lunch. It's another weird thing about me because if I don't go for a run then my levels are usually lower at lunch (yesterday, no run, I was 5.0 before lunch!).

So far though, it doesn't appear that the lantus was contributing much.


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## trophywench (Apr 12, 2012)

Well my little walking scientific experiment, this is really interesting!  LOL


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## Catwoman76 (Apr 12, 2012)

trophywench said:


> Well my little walking scientific experiment, this is really interesting!  LOL



Yep, me too, very interesting indeed.  Sheena


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## Northerner (Apr 12, 2012)

Had a 3.7 three hours after lunch, so levels hardly rocketing yet!


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## AlisonM (Apr 12, 2012)

This is really interesting Alan, I wonder what's going on?


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## Northerner (Apr 12, 2012)

AlisonM said:


> This is really interesting Alan, I wonder what's going on?



Must be that pound of cinnamon I have for breakfast every day! 

...or perhaps it's the Pig Sushi:


Waiter, excuse me, but what’s this dish here?
It sounds quite revolting and decidedly queer!
For I always thought sushi was made out of fish,
But what you are offering is a quite different dish!

Ah yes sir, pig sushi – a specialty of ours,
And a dish that’s possessed of some magical powers!
It’s pork wrapped in seaweed from the Sargasso Sea,
And it cures diabetes (though there's no guarantees!)

But why so expensive for seaweed and pork?
Is it served with champagne and a solid gold fork?
Do they fly pigs from China on a business class fare?
Do they pluck strands of seaweed from a fair mermaid’s hair?

Not quite sir, but almost, for the pigs that we seek,
Live south of New Zealand in a herd that’s unique…
Some say they are tended by mystical elves,
And they don’t need a plane as they fly here themselves!

Well it sounds like a meal that is fit for a king!
Whoever could imagine such a remarkable thing?
Bring it at once! I can’t wait to be cured!
And there’ll be a large tip, of that be assured!

 (c) Northerner 2010


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## SimplesL (Apr 12, 2012)

Love the poem.

Hope your levels stay OK for the rest of today & overnight.

Lynne


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## cherrypie (Apr 12, 2012)

Sounds to me that you are not a 24/7 Type1, only a part timer.


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## Northerner (Apr 12, 2012)

SimplesL said:


> Love the poem.
> 
> Hope your levels stay OK for the rest of today & overnight.
> 
> Lynne



Thanks Lynne 



cherrypie said:


> Sounds to me that you are not a 24/7 Type1, only a part timer.



I reckon I only get diabetic when I'm online to you lot!


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## lucy123 (Apr 12, 2012)

Could you be special too Alan?


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## Northerner (Apr 12, 2012)

lucy123 said:


> Could you be special too Alan?



We should form our own Types Lucy - you can be Type 6 and I'll be Type 7


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## lucy123 (Apr 12, 2012)

Northerner said:


> We should form our own Types Lucy - you can be Type 6 and I'll be Type 7



Or if I go 006 you can be 007!


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## mum2westiesGill (Apr 12, 2012)

Hope your levels keep staying ok for you Alan, well done! You are SpecialAlan   Take care.


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## Flutterby (Apr 12, 2012)

A fascinating read - they will have to write you up in one of the medical journals I reckon.  We will all be fighting to sit next to you at the next meet up as maybe some of your "cure" will rub off on us!!  All the best with it anyway, take care.xx


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## AJLang (Apr 12, 2012)

Alan I am so pleased for you that it looks like you won't need the background lantus - I hope that it then gives you more flexibility as you will only need bolus.  Was thinking of you when I did my second Levemir injection today.  I really am pleased for you


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## Northerner (Apr 12, 2012)

Thanks folks  I was 6.3 before my evening meal, which isn;t bad considering I had to treat that hypo earlier on - certainly no higher than I would expect if I had taken my lantus (I was 6.0 this time yesterday). 

The big question now is, is there some residual lantus still working and is everything going to go wonky big time if I decide to skip it again tonight? 

My consultant always asks me what my average insulin doses are - can't wait to see his face when I say zero for the lantus next time!


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## Northerner (Apr 12, 2012)

5.7 four hours after my sausage and mash, ice cream and peaches  I imagine it will fall a bit more before bed so might go for a zero dose again tonight and see what the morning brings.


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## Ellie Jones (Apr 12, 2012)

Alan if you'll 'cured' does this mean that you have to stand down as the Admin?

Interesting stuff, and I reckon even though it's only a unit of lantus, there's still something in your system...   

Interesting though, as I for one would like to hear what your consultant makes of it all


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## Northerner (Apr 12, 2012)

Ellie Jones said:


> Alan if you'll 'cured' does this mean that you have to stand down as the Admin?...



I reckon it will take a few years yet to get rid of the novorapid, you won't get rid of me that easily!


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## everydayupsanddowns (Apr 12, 2012)

We're all watching with interest


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## Northerner (Apr 12, 2012)

Hmm.. 3.4 five hours after eating, so I've had a jelly baby and a belvita biscuit which will probably push my levels up a bit higher than they were before bed yesterday, so might mean I'm higher overnight and in the morning. We'll see!


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## lauraw1983 (Apr 12, 2012)

Very interesting stuff!

My DSN has told me of people she knows who are diagnosed in adulthood have quite big reductions in insulin usage though from when they are diagnosed - and indeed people who just need it to cover the foods they eat, and no basal.

I hope one day this happens to me    I was on 15u Lantus, I am now on 13u....maybe mine will keep dropping too!  

I too look forward to hearing what your consultant says. I really wish they knew better what was going on with these pancreases of ours!! I wish they would give you a c-peptide test - I wanna know the results,never mind you LOL!


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## trophywench (Apr 13, 2012)

Well Laura, I'm on less insulin right now than I have ever taken in the last nearly 40 years.  But am definitely still diabetic - had a set go off earlier today and went up to 17 point summat LOL  Ooops.


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## Northerner (Apr 13, 2012)

Woke in the night at around 2:00 am so I had a test and I was 4.8. Got up this morning to a 5.4, so I don't appear to be missing my lantus yet. 

Interesting that your DSN has heard of people like me Laura, I don't feel quite such an oddity! You never know, this might convince the consultant to do the test


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## FM001 (Apr 13, 2012)

No surprise that your not missing a single unit and managing well without it, I do think your fitness has a lot to do with it and were you ever to relax your training then a return to lantus would be inevitable.


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## Northerner (Apr 13, 2012)

toby said:


> No surprise that your not missing a single unit and managing well without it, I do think your fitness has a lot to do with it and were you ever to relax your training then a return to lantus would be inevitable.



I'm sure that's absolutely true Toby. I've kept up my training since the Bath Half, and I'm sure if I'd been a little less dedicated I would be up at 4 or 5 units of lantus.


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## Northerner (Apr 13, 2012)

Just tested at 5.0, five hours after injecting for breakfast. I usually rise a bit from this point before lunch at around 12:00 (even with lantus on board), so it will be interesting to see what happens


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## Northerner (Apr 13, 2012)

Sure enough, rose to 6.4 before lunch, but this is no different to when I was actually taking the lantus so it's still looking good!


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## Tina63 (Apr 13, 2012)

Right, well time for the real test Alan, PIZZA!!!


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## Northerner (Apr 13, 2012)

Tina63 said:


> Right, well time for the real test Alan, PIZZA!!!



Actually, pizza gives me perfect levels on the occasions I've had it - so yes, I really am a freak! 

I just tested before joining Gay Gasper and I was 5.9 2.5 hours after injecting and eating my banana sandwich and yoghurt. I'm not normally that low, but went ahead with the workout and tested again - 3.7! Just had a jelly baby and a Belvita biscuit to bring my levels up and keep me going until teatime 

It appears I might have to reduce my novorapid too, and I really don't appear to be missing the lantus at all!


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## novorapidboi26 (Apr 13, 2012)

When were diagnosed again...........?


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## Northerner (Apr 13, 2012)

novorapidboi26 said:


> When were diagnosed again...........?



May 2008


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## novorapidboi26 (Apr 13, 2012)

So still within the time scale they say insulin can continue to trickle out........

Hopefully you can keep it up for many years to come......


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## Northerner (Apr 13, 2012)

I was 4.7 before my evening meal


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## Northerner (Apr 13, 2012)

I'm 4.4 mmol/l at the point where I would normally take my lantus. Still no indication that my body is missing that unit!


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## Northerner (Apr 13, 2012)

Pumper_Sue said:


> Nice to meet you Alan lol.
> After 42 years on insulin I was able to stop my basal on a regular bases and still hypo.
> 
> Being able to do this though was due to lack of cortisol
> ...



Sorry Sue, I totally missed this one! Nothing like that has happened to me, in fact I feel as fit as a fiddle. My weight is very stable, although I'd like to lose about 3 or 4 pounds. Lots of energy, have periods of insomnia, but usually know the reasons for them.


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## Northerner (Apr 14, 2012)

Woke to 4.7 this morning, with a 5.1 in the middle of the night - happy enough with that!


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## Northerner (Apr 14, 2012)

Oh my goodness! I've just realised I'm turning into Halle Berry!  I'm 'weaning myself off insulin'!


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## everydayupsanddowns (Apr 14, 2012)

Hehehe! Next thing you'll be rising from the water in a skimpy 2-piece... They are still shooting the new Bond aren't they?


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## Northerner (Apr 15, 2012)

6.0 before bed and 5.3 on waking, day 4 without the lantus  My levels haven't been any different since stopping it. One big advantage that I hadn't quite realised at first is that I no longer have that small but nagging worry about going low during the night. I think the first couple of nights I was worried about things going the other way, and that I might skyrocket overnight so my anxieties were increased, but now that the evidence is showing that isn't going to happen I can relax a bit more


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## AJLang (Apr 15, 2012)

Alan this is fantastic.  I'm really pleased for you.


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## Northerner (Apr 15, 2012)

AJLang said:


> Alan this is fantastic.  I'm really pleased for you.



Thanks Amanda  I'm just one of the lucky ones I think


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## Ellie Jones (Apr 15, 2012)

Northerner said:


> Oh my goodness! I've just realised I'm turning into Halle Berry!  I'm 'weaning myself off insulin'!



Eyes to the up and to the left

Err does Halley Berry ever where a fairy costume

It's looking good indeed, I'm surprised that your blood glucose hasn't started to really rise though..


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## Northerner (Apr 15, 2012)

Ellie Jones said:


> Eyes to the up and to the left
> 
> Err does Halley Berry ever where a fairy costume..



She did once dress as a cat! 







(incidentally, both the women in this picture have diabetes)


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## Northerner (Apr 16, 2012)

Fifth night without lantus, I was 6.1 before bed. Tested at 2:30 am and was 5.2 and got up this morning to a 4.9


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## lizabetic (Apr 16, 2012)

Hey Alan!!! Vicki linked me to your post a while ago and i've only just got round to coming on here... bloody well done! How are you coping just using novorapid now (?) do you find you have to correct much? I guess your more used to matching your spike than I am but I often find I get it wrong "] What are your typical doses now? Your results so far sound fantastic!!!


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## Northerner (Apr 16, 2012)

lizabetic said:


> Hey Alan!!! Vicki linked me to your post a while ago and i've only just got round to coming on here... bloody well done! How are you coping just using novorapid now (?) do you find you have to correct much? I guess your more used to matching your spike than I am but I often find I get it wrong "] What are your typical doses now? Your results so far sound fantastic!!!



Hi Liz, I'm not doing anything different to before, just not taking the lantus - my levels are the same as when I was taking it and I haven't changed my novorapid to compensate  I'm on 20-25 novorapid a day at the moment (I was on around 40 novorapid and 20 lantus when diagnosed). I've only ever corrected about 5 times since I was diagnosed, nearly 4 years ago. Very rare for me to go into double figures.


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## MeanMom (Apr 16, 2012)

Mind the Daily Fail don't get hold of this Alan, they will be declaring you 'cured' and telling all T1s to stop taking their insulin and start dressing as fairies


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## Northerner (Apr 16, 2012)

MeanMom said:


> Mind the Daily Fail don't get hold of this Alan, they will be declaring you 'cured' and telling all T1s to stop taking their insulin and start dressing as fairies



Oh my, I hadn't thought of that! Mind you, I could be onto something, perhaps I should set up a website and exploit my 'method'...


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## Northerner (Apr 18, 2012)

Well, I have now gone a full week without the lantus and my 7-day average on my meter is 5.4, so I guess I don't currently need it


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## Casper (Apr 18, 2012)

Been following this thread, and am amazed - and jealous lol
My insulatard units have gone from 11 to 4 over the last year, but this has been put down to losing weight (2 stone) over the year. Will you discuss this at your next diabetic appointment? Doctors may want to carry out further tests


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## Northerner (Apr 18, 2012)

Casper said:


> Been following this thread, and am amazed - and jealous lol
> My insulatard units have gone from 11 to 4 over the last year, but this has been put down to losing weight (2 stone) over the year. Will you discuss this at your next diabetic appointment? Doctors may want to carry out further tests



Yes, I'm due for an appointment with my consultant in the next month or so, and I know he's already quite intrigued by my situation


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## Northerner (Apr 29, 2012)

Going back on the lantus tonight as my levels have been raised all day. I've got a bit of the sniffles, so I think this might be partly responsible as I've also needed a lot more novorapid over the past couple of days. I just changed the lantus cartridge and it seems such a shame to be throwing over three quarters of it away. It's been out of the fridge for 4 weeks now and even when I was injecting before it was only one unit.


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## Katieb (Apr 29, 2012)

Hope the sniffles don't develop into anything more. Wrap up - it's windy out there (well it is here - had a tree blow over in our garden earlier!) Katie


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## lucy123 (Apr 30, 2012)

Hope you feel better today Alan - it was freezing yesterday - unfortunately I was out in it and it was painful on the cheeks. So keep warm and only venture out if you really must!


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## Northerner (Apr 30, 2012)

lucy123 said:


> Hope you feel better today Alan - it was freezing yesterday - unfortunately I was out in it and it was painful on the cheeks. So keep warm and only venture out if you really must!



Thanks Lucy. It's a bit better today - still windy, but the Sun keeps poking through and it's not as chilly!  

I had 2 units of lantus last night. Had a bit of a restless night - went to bed on 5.3, tested at 2am, 5.3! Woke to a 6.5 this morning, still got slight sniffles  so that's not bad.


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## lizabetic (Apr 30, 2012)

Haven't managed to catch up with this thread yet (again)!  Your levels still sound great, hopefully illness is just pushing up levels for the time being. I've had the same problem with novorapid not using enough of it within 4 weeks before lol. 

Out of interest have you ever got ketones? I am sure that lack of ketones would indicate intact basal insulin but not first phase, well that would be plausible for me.


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## Northerner (Apr 30, 2012)

lizabetic said:


> Haven't managed to catch up with this thread yet (again)!  Your levels still sound great, hopefully illness is just pushing up levels for the time being. I've had the same problem with novorapid not using enough of it within 4 weeks before lol.
> 
> Out of interest have you ever got ketones? I am sure that lack of ketones would indicate intact basal insulin but not first phase, well that would be plausible for me.



I must admit, I never test for ketones unless my levels are high and I'm not feeling well, which has only happened once since I was diagnosed!


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## lauraw1983 (Apr 30, 2012)

Northerner said:


> Going back on the lantus tonight as my levels have been raised all day. I've got a bit of the sniffles, so I think this might be partly responsible as I've also needed a lot more novorapid over the past couple of days. I just changed the lantus cartridge and it seems such a shame to be throwing over three quarters of it away. It's been out of the fridge for 4 weeks now and even when I was injecting before it was only one unit.



How much more novorapid were you on? I get confused with what the ratio of them to each other should be....basal and fast acting? 

If you kept the lantus in the fridge all the time, would it not last much longer? I have wondered about this, as I only inject it at night (does everyone on Lantus?)....though currently on 13u at bedtime so I do use a full cartridge within 30 days just now.

Interesting stuff indeed.


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## Northerner (Apr 30, 2012)

lauraw1983 said:


> How much more novorapid were you on? I get confused with what the ratio of them to each other should be....basal and fast acting?
> 
> If you kept the lantus in the fridge all the time, would it not last much longer? I have wondered about this, as I only inject it at night (does everyone on Lantus?)....though currently on 13u at bedtime so I do use a full cartridge within 30 days just now.
> 
> Interesting stuff indeed.



I raised my novorapid by about 20% recently as my levels were in the 7s rather than 4s and 5s before meals, but they still persisted in the 7s, so obviously not enough! Clearly now though, I have a bit of a cold so that is probably increasing my insulin resistance and I usually fail to hike the NR sufficiently!

Putting the lantus back in the fridge might extend its lifespan, if I go back on it full time then I might try it, especially if only injecting small amounts and then putting it back. One or two units cold shouldn't be a problem - no need to bring it up to room temperature really.

I think that the 'standard' starting point for the ratio of fast to slow insulin is 40:60 i.e. 40% slow and 60% fast. Mine came rapidly down to about 20:80, then eventually 5:95, then 0:100  I currently have it as 10:90.


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## Ellie Jones (Apr 30, 2012)

Yes the norm, is around the 40-60% split...  Mine is actually 39-41% split..

Alan, does sound like you've got just enough insulin production to deal with the background, until the body is fighting an infection of some sort..


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## Northerner (Apr 30, 2012)

Ellie Jones said:


> Yes the norm, is around the 40-60% split...  Mine is actually 39-41% split..
> 
> Alan, does sound like you've got just enough insulin production to deal with the background, until the body is fighting an infection of some sort..



That's my conclusion as well Ellie, isn't it strange?


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## Northerner (Apr 15, 2015)

Just thought I would revive this thread with an update! Here we are, three years on and I have not needed any lantus at all. My waking levels are usually in the upper 4s/low5s. My last HbA1c was 31 mmol/mol (5%)! Am I cured? No! I still need 12-20 units of fast-acting insulin when eating. This contrasts with a requirement of 20 lantus/45 novorapid at diagnosis.  I'm tempted to try a no-carb/no insulin day to see what happens - what do you think? Wouldn't want to try it before my half marathon in just over a week, but might give it a go afterwards


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## Robin (Apr 15, 2015)

I find when I eat a protein breakfast, eg scrambled egg, I need to Bolus as if it was carb. if I have, say, poached eggs on toast for lunch though, I only need to Bolus for the toast. I suspect you'll find if you no-carb, you'll need your novorapid because your body will process the protein into glucose. (Though I haven't experimented to see whether adding toast at breakfast, or omitting it at lunch makes a difference, so not a very scientific experiment. I know I need extra insulin in the mornings generally, which I suspect is a feet hit the floor thing).


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## Northerner (Apr 15, 2015)

Robin said:


> I find when I eat a protein breakfast, eg scrambled egg, I need to Bolus as if it was carb. if I have, say, poached eggs on toast for lunch though, I only need to Bolus for the toast. I suspect you'll find if you no-carb, you'll need your novorapid because your body will process the protein into glucose. (Though I haven't experimented to see whether adding toast at breakfast, or omitting it at lunch makes a difference, so not a very scientific experiment. I know I need extra insulin in the mornings generally, which I suspect is a feet hit the floor thing).



Yes, I'm the same, just wondering how high I would rise - I'd correct, of course, if things clearly weren't good!  I would be particularly concerned with the mornings, as I currently need 5 units for one slice of toast (12g carb), so clearly most of that insulin is not going towards coping with that carb


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## Robin (Apr 15, 2015)

Northerner said:


> Yes, I'm the same, just wondering how high I would rise - I'd correct, of course, if things clearly weren't good!  I would be particularly concerned with the mornings, as I currently need 5 units for one slice of toast (12g carb), so clearly most of that insulin is not going towards coping with that carb


it would certainly be an interesting experiment. I tend to think along the lines of 'know your enemy' ,ie the more info I've got about how my pancreas behaves/doesn't behave, the better I'll work out my insulin regime. (The only trouble is, a lot of the time it feels like wrestling an octopus.)
That's a lot of insulin for one slice of toast! Obviously your body gets up raring to go. mines more of a gradual wake up til it's firing on all cylinders by mid morning. I find chucking an extra unit on top of whatever I've calculated does the trick.


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## Northerner (Apr 15, 2015)

Robin said:


> That's a lot of insulin for one slice of toast! Obviously your body gets up raring to go. mines more of a gradual wake up til it's firing on all cylinders by mid morning. I find chucking an extra unit on top of whatever I've calculated does the trick.



Indeed. At lunchtime, for the same 5 units, I can have a sandwich, a banana and a yoghurt!


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## Bloden (Apr 15, 2015)

Northerner said:


> Indeed. At lunchtime, for the same 5 units, I can have a sandwich, a banana and a yoghurt!



Thank goodness for this forum - I had no idea about how our insulin and/or carb sensitivity can change throughout the day until a few months ago. Now it's glaringly obvious!  And it really helps to know.


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## KookyCat (Apr 15, 2015)

I was reading this thread this morning and trying to reply when my internet connection went bonkers!  I've had my fingers crossed that I'd "grow out of the Lantus" but sadly not . I have a theory about Northerner's lack of background insulin requirement, I reckon it's about how quickly the rapid starts to work and how long it lasts, which makes it a sort of manual insulin pump, so it's doing both jobs because it has a nice flat profile.  In me its like Russian roulette most of the time, i can't take more than 4 units of the stuff before I eat because I'm so incredibly sensitive to it.  I have to confess I'm mustering the courage to try a no insulin day to see if my afternoon problems with peaking blood sugar are as I have now decided my timmy body's version of the dawn phenomena 12 hours later than expected....scared to death but I know I'm going to do it, can feel it coming   maybe I'll wait for your experiment Northerner......see how a more experienced insulin shooter copes (not that I'm using you a guinea pig or anything )


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## John D M (Apr 16, 2015)

Very interesting. Hope that it persists for you . I'm still,pottering along with no basal and only a couple of units bonus before breakfast.


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