# Chinese or Indian Food



## mum2westiesGill (Nov 24, 2017)

I love chinese &/or indian food but I really struggle with BG's after.

Chinese my latest meal is chicken noodle soup followed by either chicken chow mein or chicken fried rice and curry sauce.
Indian my latest meal is poppadom usually just 1x without the pickles followed by chicken rogan josh and pilau rice ~ I'm actually panicking because I'm going for an Indian tomorrow evening with friends

Here's what I usually do ~ test before eating then work out the carbs and bolus after the meal when there is a bit more time & I know how much I've eaten

How best does anybody else cope with these meals and eating at home and also eating out?


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## everydayupsanddowns (Nov 24, 2017)

When we have Indian or Chinese food I make sure I only eat a fraction of the supplied portions of rice/breads as they are usually absolutely HUGE!

I also find that I need to estimate the count of the carbs and allow a fair proportion of extra insulin (as much as a third extra, but I don’t advise that for anyone else without a LOT of experimentation, obviously).

Lastly, because of the carb load and also because I find these meals absorb slowly for me I also need to delay nearly half of the insulin. On MDI I used to split 60:40 and inject twice - once before and finish off maybe 2 hours later. On the pump I generally use a dual wave to attempt the same sort of thing. 

This can mean that I am going to bed with quite a bit of ‘insulin on board’, but I also usually have quite a lot of ‘carbs on board’ at that point too, so I will usually set an alarm for 2am or maybe twice at  1am and 4am so check that my estimates are not overrunning.


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## Kaylz (Nov 24, 2017)

The problem isn't the food itself though, its the fact you aren't including the carbs in noodles, potatoes, curry etc and injecting for them, we can't give any help really if your not counting for things x


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## AJLang (Nov 24, 2017)

Gill I have to agree with both Mike and Kaylz. You know that I love you and view you as a dear friend but a) you must count for all of the carbs in any meal b) allow for splitting your boluses for takeaways. This is tough love but if you don't get things under control you risk serious complications. Please take care. Big hugs to Billy.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Nov 24, 2017)

My understanding is that Gill has been attempting to count (estimate) the carbs as much as possible, but has still been struggling with BGs.

Rest assured you are not alone Gill. These meals are notoriously difficult, and many of us only have them rarely as a result!


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## Radders (Nov 24, 2017)

I love eating out and manage to avoid problems just by avoiding the carby bits. I would much rather have an additional vegetable dish than a massive plate of rice. I do like poppadums so I count for 2 of those at 16g carbs then estimate the carbs in the veg. My other half always has some kind of bread so I just nick a corner to wipe my plate.


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## AJLang (Nov 24, 2017)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> My understanding is that Gill has been attempting to count (estimate) the carbs as much as possible, but has still been struggling with BGs.
> 
> Rest assured you are not alone Gill. These meals are notoriously difficult, and many of us only have them rarely as a result!


Hi Mike Gill has posted in the 7 day waking average about foods she hasn't bolused for that would have carbs in them. But I think Gill is doing a great job in trying to improve,


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## everydayupsanddowns (Nov 24, 2017)

Ah OK, thanks for clarifying Amanda.

Edit: while I agree that the unbilused carbs wouldn’t have helped, I’m not sure they wound have caused a 20 either in their own. I find carb counts at that level notoriously difficult to estimate.


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## grainger (Nov 24, 2017)

Personally I love this type of food too - have found it doesn’t love me though so I tend to make my own at home more than ordering takeaways as I know exactly what’s in it and how much.

I choose one main carb to go with the meal, I tend to go for poppadoms rather than rice or naan with a curry as poppadoms tend to be low in carbs and for me don’t seem to spike. As others have said the digestion is slower with curries etc so when on mdi I split the dose and I now use a dual wave on pump (though I’m still experimenting).

I find Indian a lot easier to deal with than Chinese and Thai for me is a nightmare due to palm sugar but I adore it.
Another thing we do is eat at high quality places as you’ll find they tend to use fresher ingredients and less of the nasty stuff like msg. 

If I were you I’d definitely inject something before you start eating, even if it’s a bare minimum just so you have some insulin working in you and then adjust for the rest after. 

It is just a case of test test test. Maybe try setting yourself some additional alarms just to see what’s happening over night and hopefully avoid the highs this way. No one gets this stuff right first time (and if they do then they are just seriously lucky). It’s just a case of learning what our bodies can handle, you are trying which is the main thing! 

Good luck


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## khskel (Nov 24, 2017)

I usually go for the lowest carb options available e.g tandoori and salad for an indian and avoid the sweeter sauces at the chinese. Foo yung, satay or szechuan at the chinese with maybe a third of a portion of rice. I'll have noodles at home where I can control the portion size more.


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## AJLang (Nov 25, 2017)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Ah OK, thanks for clarifying Amanda.
> 
> Edit: while I agree that the unbilused carbs wouldn’t have helped, I’m not sure they wound have caused a 20 either in their own. I find carb counts at that level notoriously difficult to estimate.


Mike, I agree with you about carb counts at that level being notoriously difficult to estimate - I can never get it right but didn't comment originally on that because I wasn't sure how much is because of my gastroparesis - so wasn't sure how it affects other diabetics


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## Greyhound Gal (Nov 25, 2017)

Re Indians, I agree with Khskel and tend to have a tandoori with salad and just a couple of tablespoons of rice. 
For Chinese, as I am not keen on those shown in Carbs and Cals, I have looked the sauces up on the internet, and as I like Hoisin sauce and this is lower carb than many others I have this. I do also sometimes split my doses depending what I'm having.
It is trial and error, but you can look carb content of many things up on the internet (to give a decent estimate), and you must bolus for ALL carbs you eat.
As others have said, takeaways are a fairly rare treat nowadays and definitely not eaten very often.


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## Amberzak (Nov 25, 2017)

I only eat egg fried rice but I love it. I found that when I worked out the carbs exactly my sugars still went sky high. I rarely have Chinese but when I do, I just accept that I’m going to have a sleepless night. So this is what I do:

I split my dose three ways (I’m actually really lucky to have the pump that lets me do an extended bolus but still struggle, this is more when I was on multiple injections. I do about 20% of the dose about 10 mins before eating (basically when I order the food, and I always go in to order) then 60% of the dose half way through the meal then 20% of the dose about an hour after. I still find I have to give more insulin during the night so I wake up at 2am to check my sugars then again at 5am. 

Also, I tend to add extra carbs on my calculation. I have used numerous carb sites that give carb value of rice, but they never seem accurate.


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## Radders (Nov 25, 2017)

Amberzak said:


> I only eat egg fried rice but I love it. I found that when I worked out the carbs exactly my sugars still went sky high. I rarely have Chinese but when I do, I just accept that I’m going to have a sleepless night. So this is what I do:
> 
> I split my dose three ways (I’m actually really lucky to have the pump that lets me do an extended bolus but still struggle, this is more when I was on multiple injections. I do about 20% of the dose about 10 mins before eating (basically when I order the food, and I always go in to order) then 60% of the dose half way through the meal then 20% of the dose about an hour after. I still find I have to give more insulin during the night so I wake up at 2am to check my sugars then again at 5am.
> 
> Also, I tend to add extra carbs on my calculation. I have used numerous carb sites that give carb value of rice, but they never seem accurate.


I am intrigued as to how you estimate the quantity. To me, the rice portions that come with my husband’s takeaways are gigantic: at least 4 portions!


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## Amberzak (Nov 25, 2017)

Radders said:


> I am intrigued as to how you estimate the quantity. To me, the rice portions that come with my husband’s takeaways are gigantic: at least 4 portions!




I always buy from the same place and at the beginning I was very methodical. I weighed the rice. Then after I’d finished (I knew that time I wouldn’t get it right) I weighed the container. I get a small egg fried rice and it’s literally the only thing I eat because I don’t like anything else. 

Just to add I don’t do it very often, because it’s so hard to control my sugars with it. But there’s not many takeaways I can have (coeliac).


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## m1dnc (Nov 25, 2017)

Like almost everyone else, I love Chinese/Indian/Thai food and have similar problems with carb guessing when eating out - especially where noodles are involved. My solution, if it can be dignified with such a name, is to do a dual wave on the pump with a long tail (1.5 hours) and then correction dose(s) if necessary over the following hours. I can't remember what I used to do on MDI - probably a split dose.

Also, for me, pasta is a real nightmare. That can affect my BG for 12 hours or more. Similar to noodles I guess.


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## Radders (Nov 25, 2017)

Amberzak said:


> I always buy from the same place and at the beginning I was very methodical. I weighed the rice. Then after I’d finished (I knew that time I wouldn’t get it right) I weighed the container. I get a small egg fried rice and it’s literally the only thing I eat because I don’t like anything else.
> 
> Just to add I don’t do it very often, because it’s so hard to control my sugars with it. But there’s not many takeaways I can have (coeliac).


That’s what I would have to do. Mind you I do recall from the DAFNE training that they said that ratios don’t always work with very high carb amounts.


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## Amberzak (Nov 25, 2017)

Radders said:


> Mind you I do recall from the DAFNE training that they said that ratios don’t always work with very high carb amounts.


That’s interesting. Might explain it. I do need a lot of insulin when I’m eating Chinese


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## everydayupsanddowns (Nov 25, 2017)

Radders said:


> That’s what I would have to do. Mind you I do recall from the DAFNE training that they said that ratios don’t always work with very high carb amounts.





Amberzak said:


> That’s interesting. Might explain it. I do need a lot of insulin when I’m eating Chinese



me too! hence my 'guesstimate and add a third... then slightly panic' approach


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## mum2westiesGill (Nov 26, 2017)

So this is how it went last night
BG before meal ~ 7.6
Bolused for carbs after meal
Tested 5 hours later which was also bedtime ~ 21.5!!! ~  did 5iu correction which is what Expert meter advised
Waking ~ 9.3

I ate
1x poppadom 
Chicken rogan josh 
Pilau rice 
Everything was bolused for with carbs & cals but I apart from the poppadom (which was bolused for) I chose the smaller of the portions out if the 6 photos


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## Greyhound Gal (Nov 26, 2017)

Looks like the bolus amount was not sufficient. Personally, I never use the smaller amount as this would be equivalent to a small amount on a side plate. I would use the middle amount or occasionally the higher, but that is just me. I think Carbs and Cals is based on a 26cm plate, so you need to check your portion sizes match these. Is your ratio correct at that time of day when you eat other things? As EDUAD has said, maybe you need to add additional insulin for these meals if your ratios are normally correct.


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## Pigeon (Nov 26, 2017)

No problem Gill, just write it down and try something new next time! I find often with takeaways the amount I eat will be similar, so the guesstimates get better over time. I tend to know I'll have at least 100g carbs, so I might bolus for 80g up front then the rest about 3 hours later, when I know what I've eaten and the rice has taken time to digest. Any sooner and I'd have a hypo. It's still not perfect though.

As a new pumper, I've been reading Gary Scheiner's book and he explains why you get high BG hours after a fatty meal- sometyhing about the liver processing the fat and so it can't store the glucose that it normally would. He suggests a 150% TBR for 8 hours after such a meal. I tried this last week with a burger and chips pub meal. It was quite scary but I took the plunge and did it and the results were surprisingly good! Have any other pumpers tried this?


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## Radders (Nov 26, 2017)

Gill just out of interest, what was your estimate of the carbs in the meal?


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## mum2westiesGill (Nov 27, 2017)

AJLang said:


> Gill I have to agree with both Mike and Kaylz. You know that I love you and view you as a dear friend but a) you must count for all of the carbs in any meal b) allow for splitting your boluses for takeaways. This is tough love but if you don't get things under control you risk serious complications. Please take care. Big hugs to Billy.



Hi @AJLang thank you for your reply and I view you as a dear friend too. Re counting for all of the carbs in my meals I'm sure I can do that if I want to try & get things right ~ re splitting boluses for takeaways I could keep that as an option to try


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