# Police ‘smashed’ a diabetic England fan to the floor because they thought he was drunk



## Northerner (Jun 29, 2018)

A diabetic teenager who was arrested and tackled to the floor by police said he is owed an apology.

Jack Johnson, 16, had been watching the England vs Panama world cup match at the Harbour Arm on Sunday (June 24) with friends.

The Folkestone teenager said he had unknowingly suffered a hypo thanks to his Type 1 diabetes, which meant his adrenalin levels rose to dangerous heights.

Jack said this led to him being arrested by Kent Police "completely unnecessarily" when they wrongly thought he was drunk.

But the teenager, who has just finished his GCSEs, said he hadn’t had a drop of alcohol and was actually suffering from the effects of his disease.

https://www.kentlive.news/news/kent-news/police-smashed-diabetic-england-fan-1718969

A somewhat confused report


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## Bubbsie (Jun 29, 2018)

The police can act where they suspect a breach of the peace will occur...it is one of the anomalies in English law...in every other criminal offence on the statute books there has to be an act that is more than preparatory...i.e. to think about committing an offence is ordinarily not sufficient… except for breach of the peace where the police can act when it occurs...or where they suspect it may occur & arresting an individual will prevent it...an interesting fact that I suspect will surprise many people.


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## mikeyB (Jun 29, 2018)

I’m not surprised he got arrested.  Calling a PC a w****r is not exactly peaceable. Sounds like he was aggressive, which can happen in a hypo, but then we’re  told his BG was high. Which is true? 

I reckon if you looked at the CCTV footage, you’d see exactly why he was arrested. Behaviour _likely_ to cause harassment, alarm or distress. That’s usually the charge when you loudly swear at plod. They’re surprisingly easy to get distressed, but as Bubbsie says, in that situation they have to make a decision in real time as to whether things are about to go pear shaped. The police were called, after all, so the publican was obviously worried by the goings on before the police arrived.

You can tell most of this tale is romancing when mum says the police said “you shouldn’t be here”. They never, ever say that for fear of false arrest charges. I suspect that quote is taken out of a rather more unforgiving context.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 29, 2018)

mikeyB said:


> I’m not surprised he got arrested.  Calling a PC a w****r is not exactly peaceable. Sounds like he was aggressive, which can happen in a hypo, but then we’re  told his BG was high. Which is true?
> 
> I reckon if you looked at the CCTV footage, you’d see exactly why he was arrested. Behaviour _likely_ to cause harassment, alarm or distress. That’s usually the charge when you loudly swear at plod. They’re surprisingly easy to get distressed, but as Bubbsie says, in that situation they have to make a decision in real time as to whether things are about to go pear shaped. The police were called, after all, so the publican was obviously worried by the goings on before the police arrived.
> 
> You can tell most of this tale is romancing when mum says the police said “you shouldn’t be here”. They never, ever say that for fear of false arrest charges. I suspect that quote is taken out of a rather more unforgiving context.


I have no idea whether they had sufficient grounds to arrest him under the Public Order Act provisions...the point being in cases where they believe there may be a breach of the peace they don't have to wait for it to be committed...they can arrest in order to prevent it...having said that the usual procedure is to give a warning that they (the suspect) are likely to be arrested if they refuse to stop the 'offending' behaviour...nowadays when the police attend public events it's usual for them to wear 'body cams'...if they were 'armed' with these I suspect all involved including the IPCC will be able to resolve the matter  in favour of one party or the other reasonably soon.


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## Pumper_Sue (Jun 29, 2018)

How did he suffer a hypo if his blood sugars were high?


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## Ralph-YK (Jun 29, 2018)

Having just read the story, I am confused whether he was high or low.  Though it's isn't a very good site, so I wonder how complete the story is.  It could be acurate, as far as it goes.  (Other than the question of his BG levels.)
Of course, it's possible he treated for a hypo and then went high.  Even though he doesn't say that.


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## Northerner (Jun 30, 2018)

Ralph-YK said:


> Having just read the story, I am confused whether he was high or low.  Though it's isn't a very good site, so I wonder how complete the story is.  It could be acurate, as far as it goes.  (Other than the question of his BG levels.)
> Of course, it's possible he treated for a hypo and then went high.  Even though he doesn't say that.


I get the impression he was HI which makes him aggressive, hence the mention of lack of insulin and ketone levels. I wouldn't consider a ketone level of 1.4 to be a case for hospitalisation though. As I said earlier, it's a very confused report


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## mikeyB (Jun 30, 2018)

The confusion in the report is caused by the attempt to ascribe his bad behaviour to diabetes, which in my view is wrong. Would have got short shrift if I was sitting on the magistrates bench. It’s an excuse, not an exculpation, just like alcohol.


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## Ralph-YK (Jun 30, 2018)

> The Folkestone teenager said he had unknowingly suffered a hypo thanks to his Type 1 diabetes,


Hypo is mentioned.

From the story, it's possible the security were awkward.  It's said they wouldn't let him get out of the grounds at first.  Then wouldn't let him back in.  Even so, you've still to be careful getting verbal with the police.


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## Ruby/London (Jun 30, 2018)

Might be poor reporting and not really reflective of what actually happened.  I was unfortunate enough to have to deal with the press in the aftermath of the Grenfell Tower fire and have been again in the run up to the 1st anniversary and the start of the Inquiry.  Never let the truth get in the way of a good story seems to be the priority in a lot of cases and creates a problem for all journalists. At work, we won't give media interviews because of the distortions in reporting.


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## Ruby/London (Jun 30, 2018)

Eye witness reports: 

"We were there that day and were standing by this crowd of boys. They were pushing, shoving, shouting and swearing. They were warned by security several times as it was a family event and several of the children in our group were getting stressed.

Having witnessed the incident first hand, the police dealt with this boy the best they could, there was a group of about 20-30 of them and they dispersed the situation quickly rather than letting it progress."

The press created the headline.  I suppose "16 year old who got a bit lippy with an officer and found himself arrested in the back of a police van" isn't much of a headline or a story.

[QUOTE="Benny G, post: 838271,
*For example, imagine the crowd of righteous parents that becomes a lynch mob who accidently hangs the pedophile's innocent neighbour.*

Or act as vigilantes hounding a "paediatrician" because they couldn't spell.


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## Bubbsie (Jul 1, 2018)

I'm stuck by the boys comments towards the end of the report he says:
“I don’t understand how it escalated to that, nothing had happened beforehand'

Clearly his recollection of what happened beforehand is flawed... reading through the report it is clear 'something' did happen before...several things happened ... he wasn't happy his friend had been asked to leave the event... he remonstrated with security who wouldn't let him out...he pulled at the fence....he returned to the event & was refused admission... he swore at the police 'a bit'...then called the officer a w****r...so several things happened before he was arrested...was that arrest lawful...who can say... the police need  a reasonable suspicion that an offence has been committed...or with a suspected breach of the peace they have the power to arrest in order to prevent it.


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## Vince_UK (Jul 1, 2018)

mikeyB said:


> The confusion in the report is caused by the attempt to ascribe his bad behaviour to diabetes, which in my view is wrong. Would have got short shrift if I was sitting on the magistrates bench. It’s an excuse, not an exculpation, just like alcohol.


And that Mikey is exactly my take on the matter.


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## Bubbsie (Jul 1, 2018)

Ruby/London said:


> Eye witness reports:
> 
> "We were there that day and were standing by this crowd of boys. They were pushing, shoving, shouting and swearing. They were warned by security several times as it was a family event and several of the children in our group were getting stressed.
> 
> ...


I hadn't seen this before Ruby...it certainly puts things in a different perspective.


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## Ruby/London (Jul 1, 2018)

I think the telling thing for me was the reported reply of the office "who's the w***** now?"

As far as I am aware, the police regulatory  use "kettling" as a method of crowd control.  Whether that is a good, bad or necessary thing I can't say but I can understand the officer having no truck with some 16 year giving it large. I can also understand a 16 year out with his mates, after his GCSEs, getting a bit carried away. 

For me, the police report rings true.  "A young man was arrested for a breach of the peace and it later emerged he had a medical condition."  I am left wondering how health vulnerabilities can be communicated in public situations.  The same situation could equally apply to other conditions, such as epilepsy or mental illness.


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## Robin (Jul 1, 2018)

Ruby/London said:


> For me, the police report rings true. "A young man was arrested for a breach of the peace and it later emerged he had a medical condition." I am left wondering how health vulnerabilities can be communicated in public situations. The same situation could equally apply to other conditions, such as epilepsy or mental illness.


That's a very valid point, and not one I have an answer to. (Even a medical bracelet may not be noticed in the heat of the moment, and not everyone wants to announce their medical condition to the world by wearing one). I think at the back of everyone on insulin's mind goes the thought, 'what if I'm hypo and someone thinks I'm drunk?'


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## HOBIE (Jul 1, 2018)

Some bloke wanting to make a storey ? Papers ?


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## bamba (Jul 4, 2018)

Ruby/London said:


> I think the telling thing for me was the reported reply of the office "who's the w***** now?"
> 
> As far as I am aware, the police regulatory  use "kettling" as a method of crowd control.  Whether that is a good, bad or necessary thing I can't say but I can understand the officer having no truck with some 16 year giving it large. I can also understand a 16 year out with his mates, after his GCSEs, getting a bit carried away.
> 
> For me, the police report rings true.  "A young man was arrested for a breach of the peace and it later emerged he had a medical condition."  I am left wondering how health vulnerabilities can be communicated in public situations.  The same situation could equally apply to other conditions, such as epilepsy or mental illness.


Didn't Dr Bernstein find out about the first glucometer he used  as it was being sold to hospital casualties to determine whether some on was drunk or diabetic when the lab was closed.


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## Bubbsie (Jul 4, 2018)

Ruby/London said:


> I think the telling thing for me was the reported reply of the office "who's the w***** now?"
> 
> As far as I am aware, the police regulatory  use "kettling" as a method of crowd control.  Whether that is a good, bad or necessary thing I can't say but I can understand the officer having no truck with some 16 year giving it large. I can also understand a 16 year out with his mates, after his GCSEs, getting a bit carried away.
> 
> For me, the police report rings true.  "A young man was arrested for a breach of the peace and it later emerged he had a medical condition."  I am left wondering how health vulnerabilities can be communicated in public situations.  The same situation could equally apply to other conditions, such as epilepsy or mental illness.


Kettling is usually reserved for protest marches Ruby...this article says (and the young man in question confirms it) this was a was an organised social event to watch the World Cup football...there is no suggestion there was excessive police presence...it is usual to call the police when there is concern a breach of the peace may occur... it seems this is what happened...we have no confirmation about what was said by the police officer at the van...the only confirmation of direct speech we have is this young man admitting 'he swore a bit at the officer'...then called him 'a w****r'...so the matter may not have come to an end yet...although he was sent home...we do not know whether he was released under investigation or the police have seen fit to take no further action...that remains to be decided.


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## Ralph-YK (Jul 4, 2018)

Bubbsie said:


> .the only confirmation of direct speech we have is this young man admitting 'he swore a bit at the officer'...then called him 'a w****r'


I believe the young man also reported that the office said "who's the w***** now?" when they got him in the van.


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## Bubbsie (Jul 4, 2018)

Ralph-YK said:


> I believe the young man also reported that the office said "who's the w***** now?" when they got him in the van.


Ralph I meant the officers comments were unconfirmed since the officer has not commented directly on the words attributed to him by the suspect...we only have the boys word for that despite there being a number of witnesses who also attended he event who did not hear those words uttered...I should have made that clearer.


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## Ruby/London (Jul 5, 2018)

Which words?  The first w***** statement or the second?  

I think that's the whole point really, the press will report how they think fit, regardless of what actually happened.  There is a formal complaints process, which this young man should follow if he believes he has been treated harshly or unfairly.  

I didn't know kettling was restricted to protests.  I thought it was a general crowd control method.  We learn something new very day


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## Bubbsie (Jul 5, 2018)

Ruby/London said:


> Which words?  The first w***** statement or the second?
> 
> I think that's the whole point really, the press will report how they think fit, regardless of what actually happened.  There is a formal complaints process, which this young man should follow if he believes he has been treated harshly or unfairly.
> 
> I didn't know kettling was restricted to protests.  I thought it was a general crowd control method.  We learn something new very day


They are not restricted to protests  Ruby however this power should only be used as a last resort following violence or the threat of violence by protestors or large crowds...interestingly enough the police have used this to control smaller peaceful groups... the police refer to it as containment.


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## Alister (Jul 6, 2018)

unfortunate but when someone is acting in a rowdy manor the police have to react to the way things seem, asking an aggressive person if they are experiencing medical difficulties or just playing up does not seem to be a very practical option (not least of which because someone acting like this for medical reasons is unlikely to be able to give a sensible answer).
it is unfortunately a risk everyone faces (even a well behaved person can sometimes get caught in the middle of a fracas) if we expect a police force to maintain order.


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