# Injecting in restaurants etc



## aymes (Feb 21, 2009)

I received my copy of Balance yesterday and was shocked to see one of the letters on the letters page was someone, a nurse, who felt quite strongly that it was unacceptable for diabetics to inject in public saying 

" how anyone can think this is acceptable is beyond me... personally I'd be disgusted if someone at the table did this...I would be angry at that person's lack of consideration..."

I was just interested to see other people's thoughts on this, my attitude has always been that it is fine as it is perfectly possible to be pretty subtle when injecting at the table, personally I would always mention it to people near me so that if they don't like needles they can look away. I was surprised to see such a strong reaction against injecting in public so am interested to see others thoughts...?


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## gerryberry (Feb 21, 2009)

Hi, I used to always go way into bathroom to inject and then decided that I was ok with injecting in front of people and if out for meal etc I do it at the table, like you if anyone is dodgy about needle I tell them they better turn away for a 'second'! Half the time I do it my husband says 'have you took your insulin'? It's done that quickly and discretely he hasn't even noticed. I just think people would take painkillers or swallow other meds outside so I don't see the problem really, I find smoking more disgusting to be honest!! And only till recentle people were allowed to do that in restaurants etc. I miss the 'balance' mag, since moving to Ireland I don't get it.


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## Copepod (Feb 21, 2009)

I reckon if anyone sees me injecting in public, it's because I haven't been discrete enough, but no-one has ever commented, even when sitting next to a stranger on a plane / bus / train, where pull down trays, abdomen and trousers all help. I actually think that asking first would draw more attention. I also think that a pencil case rather than the enormous kits supplied with some pens (exaggerating a bit, admittedly) also helps me to be discrete. 
The only time I ever remember seeing anyone inject insulin, it was a teenage male, with his trousers down, injecting into his thigh, in the open doorway of a tent in Greenland - personally, I would have shut the door, more to keep the mossies off bear flesh than for "decency"!
I'd also add that I've never seen anyone else faint at the sight of tablets, liquid medicine, asthma inhaler etc, but I have seen people faint when they see a needle (eg when working in hospital A&E departments and a travel clinic), usually when they are expecting an injection, but sometimes when just watching.


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## kitemaster (Feb 21, 2009)

*P11 mar-apr 2009 what a nerve!!!*

Im not happy either how come you can take an aspirin at the restaurant table and asthma sufferers can use their puffers? (im not having a go at asthma patients I am one also).
Where is our consideration? Do we want to do injections? The people who are lucky enough not to do injections should look away, they don’t have to do it!

GOOD REASON NOT TO DO IT: A few years ago I went for a meal in one of our respectable dept stores near where I live. Only to find out that someone had reported me and when I came out of the toilet I was greeted by two male security members who escorted me to a managers office where I was made to sit and wait for the police to arrive. You see where I live in this small sector of the planet earth you are considered a junky and shooting up if caught with an insulin syringe in your hand as strangely enough most junkies actually aquire the same syringes clearly marked ‘for insulin use only’.
In the meantime I wasn’t allowed to eat and my BG levels became very low, fortunately for me the police officer who attended was a family friend who kindly informed the staff they were in his exact words ‘being bloody stupid’.

I am now on an insulin pump which means I can be more discreet, if I don’t do a blood test and guess my BG’s! How long is going to be before someone tells me to leave my pump in the toilets!

I would like to ask this ‘nurse’ who I can only assume is ‘qualified’ and works in a hygienic recognised hospital, do they send all their patients to the toilets when they have to have their bloods taken and take any form of injected medication? 
I shan’t bother asking as I know the answer is NO, NO, NO! 

Another way of looking at it is you never use toilet facilities to fill a ‘kettle’ and if you have cut yourself you don’t rush to the toilet you go to the first aid kit! Oh and where is the first aid kit kept in the toilet? I don’t think so!

YES IM CHEESED OFF WITH THE WAY WE ARE TREATED AS LEPERS IT  AINT CONTAGIOUS!!!! (yours faithfully Type 1 for 32 years)


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## Northerner (Feb 21, 2009)

I don't see anything wrong with it, I think it's just another form of prejudice, and like all prejudices is born of ignorance. It's no different to blowing your nose at the table - just something you have to do. My first experience of this kind of 'distaste' was not at a restaurant but at a friend's house when I was explaining the procedures and showing them the equipment. One friend was interested, the other pulled a face, particularly at the blood testing.

Shaun, I'm surprised the store could get away with what they did - grounds for a huge apology and maybe some compensation! Were you carrying any kind of medical identification?

As for a nurse thinking it's unacceptable - what kind of message is that sending out? Grrrr!!!!!


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## Freddie99 (Feb 21, 2009)

For me I don't really give a damn if people see me injecting at the table or wherever. If they ask I tell them. I tell people to look away if they don't like the sight of needles and just get on with it. I do occaisionally have funny looks from people but it just look back and grin. Humor is always good. Having recently learned/remembered how to give myself an injection in the arm I have worked out the way to disgust people  I would have to say "Damn, can't find a vein". In all seriousness, if people ask, I tell them what it is and why I'm doing it. If they take exception to this I ignore them and carry on as usual. It is their decision to look at me and find out what I am doing. If they want to take exception I tell them to put themselves in my shoes, what would they do if you had to take life saving medication and someone protested about that? I would ask that they think before speaking.
Ignorance is the worst thing that diabetics have to live with. The ignorance of others is what will put diabetics back I'm sad to say. All because they do not have even the smallest amount of knowledge.

Tom H


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## jane (Feb 21, 2009)

I always inject at the table in restaurants. The reason I do this , when the meal arrives I count my CHO then work out how much insulin I need. It would be bad manners then to go to the toilets to inject keeping my friends waiting, as I know my friends would not start their meals until everybody was sat at the table.


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## bev (Feb 21, 2009)

Hi all!

So far, Alex hasnt come across anyone protesting when he has injecting in public - but then we usually all sit in such a way that nobody can really see him do it! 
I would NEVER let him do it in the toilets though - mostly because if his dad wasnt with us i couldnt go in with him - but - also because most public loos are completely filthy - people do some awful things in them - i know a cleaner and the stories she has told me about cleaning a loo at a doctors would make your hair curl!
If anyone did complain to us - i would just explain in simple terms why he had to do it - but - i have read somewhere that cafes and restaurants are obliged to provide a private room - not a loo - for this very purpose?
I feel sorry for the person (cnt remember the name) who was stopped and thught to be a druggie - i would be so angry if that ever happend to Alex - i dont think i could control myself!
I think being discreet is the key - there are people with needle phobias - and i wouldnt want to offend anyone  but i cant believe a nurse could come out with such nonsense! Talk about the dark ages! Perhaps she needs a day being a diabetic to see how difficult it can be at times! Bev


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## Northerner (Feb 21, 2009)

It occurred to me also that, not only is the woman complaining a nurse, but probably also has some close connection with diabetes. Why else would she be reading and writing in to a diabetes magazine? If so, she should *really* know better!

I was also surprised in this issue to read the letter from someone who reckons their life has been ruined by going on a DAFNE course. I've heard nothing but praise for DAFNE! Haven't done DAFNE myself, but my own PCT's version which I thought was great!


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## mikep1979 (Feb 21, 2009)

i'm sorry but i wouldnt go to the toilet to inject. it is not exactly the best environment to inject and im sorry if you dont like that i need to have this inject this to keep me alive then look away. why are they look around at what others are doing in the first place???

well said northerner. i to feel if she is anyway connected to diabetes then she should understand this a little better.


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## kitemaster (Feb 21, 2009)

*Injecting in public*

I think this is going to be a continuos problem and one which i hope will one day be resolved. It seems a shame some people dont understand the problems we suffer and the struggle we have trying to run as close to normal life style as possible, why cant people help us instead of humour. I noticed a comment earlier from someone about blowing their nose at the table and I have never thought about that, what about the germs that may possibly be spread doing such a thing. You never hear of a diabetic spreading diabetes to someone else by doing the injection at the dining table...


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## bev (Feb 21, 2009)

I know what you mean - but i think its more about ignorance than prejudice - its sad but i think most people are inherently selfish - if it were them they would want everyone to understand and be empathetic - but its not - so it doesnt affect their lives. I think educating them would be the best option - rather than feeling angry with them! Bev


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## tracey w (Feb 21, 2009)

At first i always went off to the loo to inject when out and about. Then i thought what the hell am i doing? Im not ashamed. I inject in public all the time as long as i feel comfortable with the environment. I try to be discreet as obviously i know some people dont like needles etc. I always look for a table that i feel able to inject comfortably at, but now it is about me and no one else. I would not want to inject in full view of many strangers that may stare etc, but only because I would find it offputting to eat my meal and not the other way around.

for example i inject in most restaurants and morrisons, sainsbury cafes, costa coffees etc. But at work i do not inject in the staff canteen as we are all packed in on benches like sardines and it does not seem right. I therefore inject in the locker room, but not in the toilet! I inject in view of others passing  and even injected in the corridor of the lowry hotel yesterday with people passing by. No one has ever said anything although i see people looking, if they ask i would explain what im doing, although i think its pretty obvious. Sorry for the waffle, i feel strongly that you should inject wherever you need to so long as you are comfortable with it and not hide to make others feel comfortable with it.

As for the nurse,  I was a nurse many years ago and think its disgusting to have such an attitude when nurses are injecting patients every day of their lives. How pathetic!


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## Copepod (Feb 22, 2009)

I agree with Tracey's point about choosing not to inject in very crowded places - from a sense of self preservation, not wanting to be jostled while the needle is in.
I wonder about the age of the nurse who wrote the original letter? S/he may only know about old bimodal regimes, which meant injections only morning and evening. While patients in hospital wards don't go into toilets for insulin injections, they usually have them in beds or chairs, with curtains pulled round fro privacy - obviously not an option eslewhere!
And finally, I would find that if someone fainted because they saw my needle, that would be very offputting - and I'd probably have to give first aid, rather than eat, which would not be good for my blood sugar levels. Hence, I reckon discretion is best!


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## Einstein (Feb 22, 2009)

I've never been challenged, perhaps I've been discreet enough, with people I know I tend to make some comment such as time for a 'game of darts' usually breaks the ice.

Of course it could be that there is 6'3" of ex-rugby player and people think twice before the challenge  the only comment I've had from people is regarding the smell of the insulin, but this is usually only levemir (I think) and thats done twice a day, so only really with people who know me well enough to dine with me at 07.00 or 19.00.

I agree with the comment about going to the toilet to inject, would we expect a breast feeding mother to sit on the toilet to feed her baby - I think not. I certainly wouldn't want to inject in that environment.


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## mikep1979 (Feb 22, 2009)

i have on a couple of occasions been challenged due to injecting and all i tend to say is "i am a diabetic and i need this injection to help me control my levels of sugars as unfortunately my body no longer produces any insulin. so im sorry if you find it upsetting or are uneasy with me injecting, however can i ask why you were looking at me in the first place??" this usually gets them to mumble a sorry and make a hasty retreat to their food. i dont do it nastily and i have often also been asked to explain to someone why i dont produce insulin and also what diabetes is and i am more than happy to educate people so it makes others understand and also makes mine and other diabetics lives easier.

mike


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## Einstein (Feb 22, 2009)

Yes, seems to be a point where people are amazed we can pluck up the courage to inject ourselves, more so when they find out its five times a day.

I think its good when people then want to discuss what diabetes is like, so many people have half an idea, but don't realise it can easily enter into nearly every aspect of our lives. 

Good to be a teacher sometimes! Although I always wanted to teach, during the school holidays mind. It was bad enough going to school with kids!


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## mikep1979 (Feb 22, 2009)

lol i have only ever wanted to teach kids to do one thing and thats to play footy as i am a qualified fa coach.

i think the more people understand what we have to do each day the better it is for everyone and the less scared of things others become. when i first started to work in my current job the guys i worked with hadnt even heard of diabetes let alone what it ment to me. so i told them in a brief outline what i had to do daily and also what could happen to me. thankfully they were all really mature and took on board what i said and i have never needed to shy away from them when injecting.

a wise man once said knowledge is power. and i for one think he was so very very correct.


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## katie (Feb 22, 2009)

wow that makes me angry. Especially from a nurse, how ignorant!  And why did they publish such a stupid letter?


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## Northerner (Feb 22, 2009)

katie said:


> wow that makes me angry. Especially from a nurse, how ignorant!  And why did they publish such a stupid letter?



I agree, but I suppose it does provoke a debate and makes people wonder how best to tackle the problem. I was more surprised by the letter from a person who said that going on a DAFNE course was the worse thing he could have done. I felt that they should have, erm...'balanced' that with a letter praising the benefits of DAFNE (do you see what I did there?)


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## aymes (Feb 22, 2009)

Northerner said:


> I agree, but I suppose it does provoke a debate and makes people wonder how best to tackle the problem. I was more surprised by the letter from a person who said that going on a DAFNE course was the worse thing he could have done. I felt that they should have, erm...'balanced' that with a letter praising the benefits of DAFNE (do you see what I did there?)



I would have thought they will now be inundated with responses to both letters which may make for an interesting debate in the next issue!


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## angel30eyes (Feb 22, 2009)

*Injecting*

I always inject at the table when out which is pretty often as have a very hectic home based business which means we eat out all the time and most of the staff in my local mcdonalds see me inject nearly every morning and have never batted an eyelid or lash lol
As for strange looks, yes i get them and i stare straight back at them, as for the nurses comment as haven't had my copy yet.....how dare she make such a mockery of diabetic people, she or he of all people should no how unhygenic toilets are in this country and that as a diabetic our immune systems are rubbish compared to normal joe bloggs, are we sure she or he is an actual nurse or just some silly pratt who thinks the're trying to be clever??


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## katie (Feb 22, 2009)

Northerner said:


> I agree, but I suppose it does provoke a debate and makes people wonder how best to tackle the problem. I was more surprised by the letter from a person who said that going on a DAFNE course was the worse thing he could have done. I felt that they should have, erm...'balanced' that with a letter praising the benefits of DAFNE (do you see what I did there?)



Yeah I saw that, usually they have letters praising DAFNE so i'm guessing they just assumed people have the other's, I thought it was a bit odd though. It's a shame he/she should really just go back to their DN an try to sort out the hypo issue, im sure he/she could go back their original regime if they just talked to someone about it...

That nurse should flip on over to page 30 where that rugby player is injecting for a photo - DISGUSTING!


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## sofaraway (Feb 23, 2009)

I was surprised to read that letter aswell, i have however seent he same attitude form people with diabetes, that you shoulodn't inject in front of other people. 

I will inject at the table and have never had any comments, and like a previous poster my other half sometimes asks if i've done any insulin because she doesn't see me do it. 

The guy who wrote about DAFNE should just go back to his old regieme if he doesn't like it. All the course will have given him is the information and knowledge, doesn't mean he has to use it.


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## Lizzie (Feb 23, 2009)

I would never go to the toilet to inject, it is unhygienic. I don't see why i should go into a dirty disgusting toilet to inject just because of someone else's phobia, if they have a real problem they should get treatment for it as people would for any other disabling phobia, especially if they are a nurse and are likely to see people injecting all the time in their job. Injecting takes a couple of minutes and they don't have to watch, if they know it will gross them out they should look away as soon as they see I am getting my injection pen out. The fact that it is a nurse writing this letter makes it even worse. I thought nursing was supposed to be a 'caring' profession, if she finds injecting so disgusting maybe she should reconsider her career choice.


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## akdcolchester (Feb 23, 2009)

After ordering in a restaurant I ask to keep the wine list (or menu) to read and then use that as a modesty shield to take my jab. It does mean injecting through clothes into my abdomen though. Is that a really bad thing??


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## bev (Feb 23, 2009)

Hi
As i understand it - its not ideal as you risk the needle breaking and could damage yourself - but we are new to it all so i may be wrong! Bev


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## Copepod (Feb 23, 2009)

Biggest potential problem with injecting through clothes is if you draw blood, it stains your clothing! And you can't really get through anything thicker than a T shirt or woven shirt. Anyway, a shirt with full length button line, tucked into trousers gives very easy access to bare skin. Dresses are much more difficult - yet another reason why I find weddings THE MOST DIFFICULT SITUATIONS with diabetes! Well, actually, I don't wear dresses, but the uncertainty of meal times and types of food, formality etc mean they're purely stressful, not enjoyable.
I believe there was a research study a while back which compared rates of problems in people who injected insulin through clothes with those who only injected into bare flesh - and there was no excess infection or other problems in those who injected through clothes.


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## Northerner (Feb 23, 2009)

akdcolchester said:


> After ordering in a restaurant I ask to keep the wine list (or menu) to read and then use that as a modesty shield to take my jab. It does mean injecting through clothes into my abdomen though. Is that a really bad thing??



Hmm, I have to say that I prefer to see that the thing is going in properly, apart from any other reason like hygiene, blunting/breaking needle etc. Yes, I know it's unlikely that I'm going to miss, but I'm still relatively new to this and think it will be a while before I feel blas? about it - but, we are all different, and I'm sure our preferences and behaviour vary considerably in lots of things!


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## katie (Feb 23, 2009)

sofaraway said:


> and like a previous poster my other half sometimes asks if i've done any insulin because she doesn't see me do it.



wow, that's pretty good going.  My ex always noticed.  Probably only because he is shallow and embarrassed by me or something. (not that im bitter haha).


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## Elaine42 (Feb 24, 2009)

*Injecting in restaurants!*

I read the article and was disgusted by comments. I used to go to the toilet to inject, it wasn't so much the dirty state of the toilets, most of the restaurants I go to the toilets are quite clean but it was the balancing of blood monitoring kit, insulin pen, needles  etc on a washbasin and everything would be falling into the washbasin.  I also felt when anyone came into the toilet that I was some sort of druggie and I don't particularly want to explain to strangers what I'm doing. Now I inject at the table.  I do miss wearing a dress to go out, just another consideration I have to make, like taking a handbag that fits all that I need to take with me, sometimes it would be nice to just take a small evening bag.


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## stephenmcdonald (Feb 24, 2009)

aymes said:


> I received my copy of Balance yesterday and was shocked to see one of the letters on the letters page was someone, a nurse, who felt quite strongly that it was unacceptable for diabetics to inject in public saying
> 
> " how anyone can think this is acceptable is beyond me... personally I'd be disgusted if someone at the table did this...I would be angry at that person's lack of consideration..."
> 
> I think this is beyond shocking from a so-called health care professional- im sure it is hard enough for people to get the confidence to inject etc in public without being put down by someone who appears to be in the wrong profession. Nurses see things much worse than this in day to day job. And as for a lack of consideration- ha ha! I doubt the one who lacks consideration is the nurse!!


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## katie (Feb 25, 2009)

Elaine42 said:


> Now I inject at the table.  I do miss wearing a dress to go out, just another consideration I have to make, like taking a handbag that fits all that I need to take with me, sometimes it would be nice to just take a small evening bag.



Hi Elaine.

Have you tried injecting through a dress?  If i'm out and wearing a dress I just do this as a once off


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## Northerner (Feb 25, 2009)

katie said:


> Hi Elaine.
> 
> Have you tried injecting through a dress?  If i'm out and wearing a dress I just do this as a once off



Yes, I've tried this too, and it's fine. Oops! Wrong group!


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## katie (Feb 25, 2009)

Northerner said:


> Yes, I've tried this too, and it's fine. Oops! Wrong group!



hahaha 

this minimum 10 characters thing is annoying me!


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## sofaraway (Feb 25, 2009)

I wonder if we can write into balance collectively as a forum to express our thoughts on this?


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## katie (Feb 25, 2009)

That is a really good idea  I would offer to start but out of all of us i'm definately not the most articulate hehe.


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## Lizzie (Feb 25, 2009)

I'm not sure, maybe it would be better for them to be deluged by 800 individual letters rather than just getting one.


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## Copepod (Feb 25, 2009)

I won't be writing to Balance, as I don't have access to the text.


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## sofaraway (Feb 25, 2009)

Copepod- do you mean you haven't seen what was written? Want me to type it out for you?


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## sugarfreerach (Feb 25, 2009)

to be honest i never used to inject at the table as before i was a diabetic i was terrified of needles (still am really but you just get on with it) and would hate for someone to be ill or feel queasy because of it.  i know you dont have to look but when someone is doing something "wierd" then your eye is drawn to them.  I would go to the toilet and test my sugars (without having to balance anything!) and then get a fresh needle out and do my insulin without it touching anything other than me.  It took 3 minutes at most and could usually tell the waiting time for meals by looking at the people around you and see if they were getting food etc so just estimated the time.  A couple of minutes wont make any difference and i could always have aslurp of mums coke if necessary.  I have apump now so i just do that at the table but people dont see the needles and so its different.  I think its really big headed and such a bad attitude for us to say "deal with it" it just ends up making us bitter people.  Also some people have loads of problems but they dont make us aware of them all the time, so why should we make them uncomfortable just because i have to live with diabetes.  (im talking about strangers not the people im sitting with)


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## bev (Feb 25, 2009)

I dont think we should 'rub peoples noses in it' so to speak! I think discretion is the key - but my son is 10 and i really dont want him going into the toilets on his own- with all manner of dirty things in there - trying to do his blood and injection! I also think that if we keep it all a 'secret' it is almost as if we are ashamed of what we need to do. There are plenty of people with disabilites - some you know about - some you dont - but its a personal perspective i think to decide where and when to inject. I dont want Alex to ever feel ashamed of being diabetic -he has enough to deal with as it is. The more we do injections in public - the more the public will get used to it and it will become just like someone answering a phone or something equally mundane.Bev


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## grahams mum (Feb 25, 2009)

hi i always inject graham in public  because i do it on his arm  and nobody never said anithing to me only when i am in mc donald some children  really look that i have got a needle i guess


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## delta (Feb 25, 2009)

i allways inject my son in clear view of people i could'nt give a monkeys what people think i want my son to know having diabetes is nothing to hide and be ashamed of obviously a nurse who has a needle phobia


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## Northerner (Feb 25, 2009)

I think the problem is that people who don't inject have misconceptions about it. If you took out a ballpoint pen and drew a spot on your tummy people would think it was weird but wouldn't be 'disgusted' or 'horrified'. Before diagnosis I, too, would have associated injections more with syringes and long needles and a certain amount of pain - this is what people fear, but it's just not like that any more.


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## katie (Feb 26, 2009)

Northerner said:


> I think the problem is that people who don't inject have misconceptions about it. If you took out a ballpoint pen and drew a spot on your tummy people would think it was weird but wouldn't be 'disgusted' or 'horrified'. Before diagnosis I, too, would have associated injections more with syringes and long needles and a certain amount of pain - this is what people fear, but it's just not like that any more.



I assumed it was a huge needle to. but she is a nurse so surely knows that injecting insulin is nothing like jacking up a hit of heroine


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## aymes (Feb 26, 2009)

sugarfreerach said:


> I would go to the toilet and test my sugars (without having to balance anything!) and then get a fresh needle out and do my insulin without it touching anything other than me.  It took 3 minutes at most and could usually tell the waiting time for meals by looking at the people around you and see if they were getting food etc so just estimated the time.  A couple of minutes wont make any difference and i could always have aslurp of mums coke if necessary.  I have apump now so i just do that at the table but people dont see the needles and so its different.  I think its really big headed and such a bad attitude for us to say "deal with it" it just ends up making us bitter people.



Were you carb counting at this time? Surely, unless you happen to have eaten the same thing in the same place before you can't inject before it arrives?
I really don't think it's a big deal to do a quick injection at the table, the injection pens are so quick and subtle that it's vary rare that anyone would notice, anyone who's likely to I do 'warn' before I do it. I do feel there is so little offense to be caused by me injecting at the table that I have to disagree that it's a bad attitude to expect others to cope with it. The most frequent answer tends to be 'so long as you're not injecting me I don't care what you do!' If someone else is more comfortable injecting out of sight then that's fine but I don't feel I should have to do it in secret.


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## sofaraway (Feb 26, 2009)

aymes said:


> Were you carb counting at this time? Surely, unless you happen to have eaten the same thing in the same place before you can't inject before it arrives?
> .



reminds me of something I read in John Walsh 'Using Insulin', he suggests injecting for a % (I think it was 50%) of the estimated carbs before you get the meal. Then when you actually get the meal and works out how many carbs there were/how many you've actually eaten and give the remaining insulin required. 
Not something I've ever been bothered to do, I prefer to just inject the whole lot after eating, even though I'm aware that does mean insulin chasing my food.


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## delta (Feb 26, 2009)

the only thing i find a pain is having to hold the needle in my sons arm for the count of ten as we were told to do when he was first diagnosed if it were'nt for this injections would be so much quicker i sometimes wonder if i could just give him an extra half unit and not have to count to ten


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## bev (Feb 26, 2009)

Hi Nikki,

Alex's DN has told him never to inject after or even half way through a meal as it takes 10 minutes for the insulin to start acting and if you have eaten first the food is being absorbed without any insulin to chase it round! So we always inject before a meal and try to do it within a couple of minutes of the food arriving.

Also, if the restaurant doesnt have a table in a corner where he can inject privateley -he stays in the car with his dad whilst i order the food and then ring him to let him know how much insulin and when to take it etc - so he can be more private about it!

Bev


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## bev (Feb 26, 2009)

Delta,

We were told the same for Alex - i know it seems a long time when your counting -but it is important to do it as we were told that different pens release the insulin at different rates so he may not get all the insulin you have dialled up.Bev


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## janine19 (Feb 26, 2009)

bev said:


> Hi Nikki,
> 
> Alex's DN has told him never to inject after or even half way through a meal as it takes 10 minutes for the insulin to start acting and if you have eaten first the food is being absorbed without any insulin to chase it round! So we always inject before a meal and try to do it within a couple of minutes of the food arriving.
> 
> ...


Hi Bev,
I always inject after meal as I have a habit of not finishing my meal, especially when im out. I was told as long as I do it straight away its fine. I just prefer to do it this way o im not forced to eat more than I want to.


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## sofaraway (Feb 26, 2009)

bev said:


> Hi Nikki,
> 
> Alex's DN has told him never to inject after or even half way through a meal as it takes 10 minutes for the insulin to start acting and if you have eaten first the food is being absorbed without any insulin to chase it round!



Yeah I do know this is ideal but it's something I haven't been able to do. I've tried recently to inject before eating and wasn't able to maintain it. I am in the habit of injecting afterwards and can't really break it. I should probably try and give it another go. I starting injecting after I ate because I used to have problems with bulimia, so it was safer for me to inject once I'd eaten and knew that I would actually need the insulin. Thats not a problem now but I still inject afterwards.


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## bev (Feb 26, 2009)

Janine,

I suspect that children are told these 'rules' to follow as a starting point - but obviously as an adult you are best placed to decide when you inject - it does make sense to inject afterwards if your unsure of the amount you are eating! For us it sort of works in our favour as it makes Alex eat all his veggies (he knows some have carbs) which makes a mum happy!Bev

p.s. How are the wedding plans coming along? There was another post about a young lady wanting to know where to put her bag of insulin etc on the big day - any ideas? I thought a silk bag attached to her garter would be a good idea!Bev


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## tracey w (Feb 26, 2009)

bev said:


> Hi Nikki,
> 
> Alex's DN has told him never to inject after or even half way through a meal as it takes 10 minutes for the insulin to start acting and if you have eaten first the food is being absorbed without any insulin to chase it round! So we always inject before a meal and try to do it within a couple of minutes of the food arriving.
> 
> ...


sorry bev, i have to disagree here on both counts. only my opinion though. I was told i could inject, immediately before, during or within 15 mins of finishing a meal by my team. The only time i have been injecting after is if i have been quite low, ie treqted a hypo then eaten a meal.

also, i thought you wanted alex to not feel difffernt? I would feel very ifferent waiting in a car whilst others in my party are enjoying themselves inside. Although i do understand what you are saying about not having a private table, just my opinion, it is difficult for all of us at times.


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## bev (Feb 26, 2009)

Hi Tracey,

Obviously we are very new to all of this - but - we are just doing what his Consultant is telling us to do! Its not my personal opinion - and perhaps when he has been doing this for a lot longer we may be told to do something different? But until then, we will follow the guidelines given to us by the experts.

The only times Alex injects in the car is when there is no table that he could sit at and do it privately! As i have said , discretion is the key, and if Alex is likely to feel embarrassed (like there is a group of other kids who may look and tease etc) then its far better to do it in the car - in private - without him feeling embarrassed - and clean! You must remember that he is only 10 and therefore doesnt have the maturity yet to not be bothered by what other people think! That, i hope, will come with age! I absolutely dont want Alex to feel different or left out - but i also dont want to put him in situations that may make him feel awkward either! And please remember, 10 year olds can be extremely difficult at times and what may suit them one day - may not another!
As i said in my post , we only do this when there is nowhere appropriate to do it in the restaurant. Would you rather i forced him to do it at a table where he is on show and feels embarrased - or do it in private in the car?
Its good that you feel happy to do it anywhere - but thats probably because you have the maturity to cope with it - Alex doesnt (yet).Bev


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## tracey w (Feb 26, 2009)

bev said:


> Hi Tracey,
> 
> Obviously we are very new to all of this - but - we are just doing what his Consultant is telling us to do! Its not my personal opinion - and perhaps when he has been doing this for a lot longer we may be told to do something different? But until then, we will follow the guidelines given to us by the experts.
> 
> ...



fair points! I dont have children and can only imagine how difficult it is for all of you. but i must say you are all doing really well, and giving alex a good grounding for good care/control in the future.

sometimes the problem is the so called professionals all seem to have different advice?


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## katie (Feb 26, 2009)

sofaraway said:


> Yeah I do know this is ideal but it's something I haven't been able to do. I've tried recently to inject before eating and wasn't able to maintain it. I am in the habit of injecting afterwards and can't really break it. I should probably try and give it another go. I starting injecting after I ate because I used to have problems with bulimia, so it was safer for me to inject once I'd eaten and knew that I would actually need the insulin. Thats not a problem now but I still inject afterwards.



I inject afterwards too, which I know is probably very naughty.  It's partly laziness and partly because I don't know if i'm going to eat a carby dessert afterwards, or not be able to finish my meal etc.  My DN always said it wasn't too bad to inject after so I wasn't too worried.


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## bev (Feb 26, 2009)

Your absolutely right! Professionals do seem to differ - he was even told when first diagnosed by a rather old fashioned doctor - that he can never eat anything sweet again! Can you imagine what that did to him?

I know that diabetes isnt an exact science - but you would think the experts could at least have an agreement on the basics! 
Perhaps children are given slightly stricter advice than adults so as to get a good basic grounding - before they turn naughty and start drinking alcohol etc...! lolBev x


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## Northerner (Feb 26, 2009)

katie said:


> I inject afterwards too, which I know is probably very naughty.  It's partly laziness and partly because I don't know if i'm going to eat a carby dessert afterwards, or not be able to finish my meal etc.  My DN always said it wasn't too bad to inject after so I wasn't too worried.



The theory is that your fast-acting insulin will peak at the same time as your food is putting its maximum glucose into the bloodstream, but as food digests at different rates anyway I would have thought it's more than likely that the two peaks won't coincide. So if you're injecting an hour after starting your meal, then the insulin will peak at two hours after starting to eat, which I wouldn't have thought was a huge problem. 

I read somewhere that, in a non-diabetic person, insulin starts to be produced before the food even reaches the stomach, as signals from the mouth/taste buds send messages to the pancreas to get working, so I suppose that, if we are trying to crudely mimic a pancreas, injecting after eating isn't the thing to do.


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## bev (Feb 26, 2009)

Hi all!


I have just read my input again on this subject - and i must apologise!

I come across as a 'know it all' !!!!!
I honestly didnt mean to come across that way - how could i know anything when all of you have been dealing with diabetes for possibly years and know the ins and outs of it all - and heres little old me - a newcomer - thinking i know what i am talking about?

I am sorry if i have offended anyone. Blame it on being a very tired and over- protective mum - who cant turn her brain off from diabetes and all it entails!

Sorry. I love this site.Bev


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## janine19 (Feb 26, 2009)

bev said:


> Hi all!
> 
> 
> I have just read my input again on this subject - and i must apologise!
> ...


Hi Bev,
U dont come across as a know it all. But u are allowed to be all of the rest! Your just trying to do the best for yor son and its not easy. 
My mum is still over protective of me and im 26!! We went to finalise our menu for wedding last night and my Mum was worrying about me eating talking bout me like I was a child again. As annoying as it is I know its only because she loves me and is scared of me getting things wrong. 
I wouldnt change her for the world and im sure Alex feels the same bout u. I find ur post very helpful. xx


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## sofaraway (Feb 26, 2009)

bev said:


> I know that diabetes isnt an exact science - but you would think the experts could at least have an agreement on the basics!



problem is each person is individual so having set rules, isn't very holistic. There are some things that are agreed on a set rules i.e. changing the needle every time. but most people don't do that, and DSN's who have diabetes themselves don't do it. 

"NovoRapid has a faster onset and a shorter duration of action than soluble human insulin. Due to the faster onset of action, NovoRapid should generally be given immediately before a meal. When necessary NovoRapid can be given soon after a meal"  

http://emc.medicines.org.uk/document.aspx?documentid=15074#POSOLOGY


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## katie (Feb 26, 2009)

bev said:


> Your absolutely right! Professionals do seem to differ - he was even told when first diagnosed by a rather old fashioned doctor - that he can never eat anything sweet again! Can you imagine what that did to him?
> 
> I know that diabetes isnt an exact science - but you would think the experts could at least have an agreement on the basics!
> Perhaps children are given slightly stricter advice than adults so as to get a good basic grounding - before they turn naughty and start drinking alcohol etc...! lolBev x



A nurse that came to inject me for the first time when I was in hospital newly diagnosed said to me (because i was crying) "oh don't worry, you will probably be able to manage it with pills and exercise".  I'm assuming she had no idea what diabetes is and that there are two types  It's quite worrying isn't it?


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## tracey w (Mar 1, 2009)

bev said:


> Hi all!
> 
> 
> I have just read my input again on this subject - and i must apologise!
> ...



Bev, you really dont come across that way at at. I have not been at it for years either! only one in fact, so am still learning things evey day, mainly from this site and from people like you who are interested. Diabetes is still 24/7 for me too. We are all entitled to our opinions on the subject, and i dont think anyone on here is trying to upset anybody else. we are all trying to help each other, whatever our views. Keep up the input, i agree this site is great, has helpedd me loads where my team just havent. Cant wait for 26th march on my next appointment am going in there fully armed with questions and info and i will be wanting answers on how to get better control!


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## bev (Mar 1, 2009)

Hi Tracey,

Thats very kind of you to say! I hope you do get the answers you need for better control - after all its your life and your right to get the best possible information and act on it accordingly!Let us know how you get on!? Bev


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## Patricia (Mar 1, 2009)

Hello again everyone...have followed this thread through and find that the injecting before/after a meal is something we've been troubled by...basically, at the moment my son can be a little unsure exactly what he wants to eat, so we've left it until after he's eaten to calculate the carb. Mostly this has happened in the last two weeks for two reasons: he's been quite ill (sugars all over the place! Oh my goodness!) so appetite variable; and we've had lots of 'pick' type meals (how many pitas will he have? who knows? How much hummus? how many slices of pepper/carrot? etc).

Our DSN told us that many people inject afterward, once they know what they've eaten and/or want to eat. Is this not the case?

btw -- we *have* been splitting pasta and rice meal injections, with considerable success. Yay! 

It seems to me that so many different foods digest at different speeds that a hard and fast 'before meal only' rule seems maybe even inaccurate? I don't know...


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## bev (Mar 1, 2009)

Hi Patricia,

I can only go on what we have been told to do - and that is inject before a meal always! I think the reason for this is that insulin starts working only after 10 minutes - so if you eat food it is running round your body for maybe half and hour and then you have to wait another 10 minutes for the insulin to kick in. But my son has only been diagnosed for 12 weeks so maybe its more to do with being new. How old is your son and when was he diagnosed? I do understand what you mean about the amount of food he will eat - but what i do is work it out as if he was going to eat it all - then if he doesnt (rarely) we just give some milk and try to bring it up to the amount he should have eaten. Obviously if your son is a toddler its a lot more tricky with his diet! But if older then perhaps he could start to make decisions about the amount he feels hungry for and try to stick to it. Bev


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## sugarfreerach (Mar 1, 2009)

ive always injected afterwards.  what if i suddenly get full before i finish? what if the food tastes funny and i dont want it or what if the phone rings or im needed suddenly at work.  Ive never noticed any problems with my sugars since carb counting and the pump and i still dose afterwards.  none of my nurses or consultants have a problem with it


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## aymes (Mar 1, 2009)

I always inject before, as I've been advised to, for the reasons bev states and it works fine for me and lessons spikes after eating. I inject for what I expect to eat which is usually fine, if I don't eat it all I'll just 'top up' with the right amount of juice. Or if I then want dessert I'll have a second injection.


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## Patricia (Mar 2, 2009)

Thanks for all this. Like everything else, this seems to vary person to person and area to area. It makes sense to me to generally inject before, and we do. But I can see how in several different circumstances (unknown food, parties, eating out) that it might be less stressful to inject afterward, so you aren't chasing the novorapid, esp in an unfamiliar situation.

Cheers.


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## tracey w (Mar 2, 2009)

sugarfreerach said:


> ive always injected afterwards.  what if i suddenly get full before i finish? what if the food tastes funny and i dont want it or what if the phone rings or im needed suddenly at work.  Ive never noticed any problems with my sugars since carb counting and the pump and i still dose afterwards.  none of my nurses or consultants have a problem with it



I know what you mean about not sure of how much you will eat. I often inject for two rounds of toast only to feel full after one... then i force the other one down because i have too. Not pleasant


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## Anthony Neve (Mar 2, 2009)

I have to agree with the injecting before a meal, well for breakfast anyway, I tend to do the injection about 15mins before my breakfast, I find it helps with reducing such a big spike in BG in the morning. All other meals/ snacks etc I usually inject before hand, but find theres not much difference if injecting after (tends to happen at work, as I can wait for everyong to disappear after lunch and then inject).

It sounds really stupid but whenever im out I always feel like I shouldnt be messing about with needles etc in public, I know its something I have to do, but I do try and cover it up, probably for the sake of others ignorance really. But that said I dont mind doing an injection infront of people, they usually look on in amazement, followed by 'I couldnt do that'


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## Jock 83 (Mar 2, 2009)

Its just an ignorant and to be honest epervesently stupid response to somebody taking a life saving med. Everybody who has a problem with public injections isn't worth even....................


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## katie (Mar 2, 2009)

Jock 83 said:


> Its just an ignorant and to be honest epervesently stupid response to somebody taking a life saving med. Everybody who has a problem with public injections isn't worth even....................



well said, woo! 

Now I know how those poor breast feeders feel, lol.


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## squidge63 (Mar 3, 2009)

I inject when I am in a restaurant, I usually try and turn away and make sure that when I inject it is under table level.


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