# Enjoyable meals!



## lucy123 (Apr 6, 2016)

Trying to make sure I have a grip on what I am eating but also feeling quite bored with food.
I thought you may all be able to help by suggesting meals you really like (that are of course diabetes friendly)  if you could help and state whether you have for Breakfast Lunch Dinner or snack that would be lovely.

Hope you don't mind me asking.

Also is there any recipe books you like?   I have been following a clean eating recipe book for a while but got bored now and need something new but simple.


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## Mark Parrott (Apr 6, 2016)

My food diary is not exactly exciting, but here goes. Im LCHF which i find keeps my blood levels low & im losing weight too.

Breakfast: Greek natural yoghurt & berries or 1 slice of Burgen toast & butter. Weekends usually a fry up without the beans, fried bread or hash browns.

Lunch: If im out i usually take a Lidl high protein roll with ham or cheese or tuna. If im at home i usually have an omelette.

Dinner: Cottage pie with celeriac/sweet potato mash, Sausages (high meat content) with veg & celeriac gratin, stir fry with courgetti instead of noodles, indian curry with 1 poppadom & smallish portion of bulgar wheat (great lower carb rice alternative.

I dont skimp on puddings either. I make a lime cheescake with a base of ground almonds & coconut & sweetened with Stevia. Also sugar free jelly or a couple of squares of 85% dark choc.

If im peckish during the day, i munch on peanuts.


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## SB2015 (Apr 6, 2016)

Do you have a spare space at your table Mark?

My meals are
Breakfast porridge with a spoon dipped in honey

Lunch: Lidl roll with ham with Spiraliser salad of courgette, carrot, cabbage, ...

Evenings: we alternate week on week off cooking and aim for carb total of 30 g
(New to this as I got away without cooking for 30 years.  I marked and prepared lessons whilst my husband cooked so ewe could then eat together)
I tend to pick a cook book and then do swaps to get the carbs down if necessary.
Favourite at present is Hemsley and Hemsley
Courgetti spaghetti is a big hit but cauliflower rice not so good.
Celeriac mash very good.


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## Mark Parrott (Apr 6, 2016)

Im still experimenting with cauli rice. Been too wet so far.


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## lucy123 (Apr 6, 2016)

Thank you -some interesting ideas here - what are Lidl protein rolls?

I am looking for quick fixes as found I was getting stuck in the kitchen for hours when I tried to be really good.
Need to get back on yogurt and berries for breakfast. Cottage Pie with sweet potato mash is always good as it lasts a few days.


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## Mark Parrott (Apr 6, 2016)

Lidl high protein rolls are dark brown rolls with lots of seeds. They are easy to spot as they are triangular in shape. Most people on here find they dont affect blood sugar much. They are also quite big & very filling so some just have half at a time. Im greedy though & stuff a whole one down me.


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## Alan.tnh (Apr 6, 2016)

Hi Lucy, this was yesterday, dinner was those ingredient's put together in a "pie" recipe on  the food section, (chicken, tomato, basil pie)
The ingredient's in snack section are a cheesecake, minus the Brazils, and Walnuts. Hope this helps Al


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## Mark Parrott (Apr 6, 2016)

Ive made a pizza using a similar base. Tastes great but you cant pick it up. Needs a knife & Fork.


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## Alan.tnh (Apr 6, 2016)

yeah I blind bake the cauli before adding the layers not sure I could pick it up tho. Also drys it a bit, and when I have cauli rice as a side I fry it off which also helps dry it.


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## DeusXM (Apr 6, 2016)

Breakfast - omelettes, fritatas etc. Chuck in some veg if you're trying to get some more vitamins in. A dash of soy sauce and fish sauce added while beating the egg infinitely improves any omelette or scrambled egg dish.

Lunch - salad's good - nice big handful of leaves, add in ham, chicken, salami, bacon, cheese, whatever

Tea - Roasted, grilled or seasoned meats with steamed veg - think steak and broccoli, bunless burgers, pork belly and chicken in dry-rub. You can also bulk stuff out using sweet potatoes in place of regular potatoes, or using cauliflower as mash or rice.

None of this stuff takes long - most dinner meats can be seasoned in less than a minute and simply popped in the oven for however long it needs with no further input. Plus, if you're steaming veg, keep some for the next day and then you can chuck it in an omelette, which only takes a minute to cook.


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## lucy123 (Apr 6, 2016)

Thanks guys - these are excellent.   When you read ingredients on packs of food what carb and carbs of which sugar values do you look for?


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## khskel (Apr 6, 2016)

Don't look at the sugar values on their own it's the carbohydrate values you want. The sugar is just a subset of this.


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## DeusXM (Apr 6, 2016)

> When you read ingredients on packs of food what carb and carbs of which sugar values do you look for?



It really depends on what your personal limits are. As a T2, you need to work out how many carbs per meal you can safely eat without spiking your blood sugar and work from there.

The figure you need to look at is whichever one is most directly relevant to the amount you are eating. There is no point arbitrarily deciding that you're going to refuse to eat anything with more than 10g of carbs per 100g, for example - as you might not be eating anywhere near 100g of whatever it is! So go with the 'per portion' amount (if you're eating a 'portion'), and use the 'per 100g' figure to calculate the content if you're eating something other than a portion (which means knowing the weight of what you're eating first!).

As a general rule, I suspect most T2s will start to run into problems beyond 30-40g per meal, which for comparison is less than one sandwich. I personally aim for less than 50g a day in total. Remember, ALL carbs are effectively 'sugar' and your body doesn't differentiate between 'natural' or 'artificial'. The 25g of carbs in a banana are, biologically speaking, exactly the same as eating 5 teaspoons of sugar out of a bag.


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## robert@fm (Apr 6, 2016)

Hi Lucy, you might like to use the forum search to look for the previous discussions of LiDL Protein Rolls. I've never tried them myself as I'm housebound and I doubt that it would be practical to get my carer to buy some (and LiDL don't deliver), but from what I've read they're great. The only problem is that not all branches make them, and if your local one does you have to get there sharpish as they are hugely popular!


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## lucy123 (Apr 6, 2016)

Thank you - and Robert thank you for the further info on Lidl rolls. I will have to take a look and see if they do them locally.


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## AndBreathe (Apr 6, 2016)

Mark Parrott said:


> Im still experimenting with cauli rice. Been too wet so far.


Have you tried stir frying the cauli rice (with or without a small amount of oil, and/or spices?  Alternatively, grating it, via the food processor for me, then oven cook for a short while?  It's been a while since I did cauli rice as a cauli is over £6 here, unless frozen, which isn't my preference.


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## lucy123 (Apr 6, 2016)

Yes I do have cauli rice quite often. I grate, tsp water and micro.


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## lucy123 (Apr 6, 2016)

Mark Parrott said:


> My food diary is not exactly exciting, but here goes. Im LCHF which i find keeps my blood levels low & im losing weight too.
> 
> Breakfast: Greek natural yoghurt & berries or 1 slice of Burgen toast & butter. Weekends usually a fry up without the beans, fried bread or hash browns.
> 
> ...


Hi Mark,  which yogurt do you buy - have you found one low in sugar?


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## Mark Parrott (Apr 6, 2016)

I always go for the full fat versions as these are lower in sugar. Lidl's do a great Greek yoghurt thats very thick as thats how i like it. Currently got Onken which tastes ok but is very runny.


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## Mark Parrott (Apr 6, 2016)

AndBreathe said:


> Have you tried stir frying the cauli rice (with or without a small amount of oil, and/or spices?  Alternatively, grating it, via the food processor for me, then oven cook for a short while?  It's been a while since I did cauli rice as a cauli is over £6 here, unless frozen, which isn't my preference.


Haven't tried frying it yet, but will do next time. Wife hated it so much It's hard to get her to try it again. She low carbs with me. Except for chocolate & crisps.


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## Lynn Davies (Apr 6, 2016)

Mark. Fry in a bit of oil. Don't stir it straight away but let it sit so the bottom Browns a bit.  The stuff on top will cook in the steam that it produces. Stir it once to mix it together then let it sit again for the bottom to brown.  Add some butter and give it a good stir through.

Serve immediately with a nice pork chop.


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## Mark Parrott (Apr 6, 2016)

Thanks Lynn. Ive found some pork chops in the bottom of our freezer so will try that.


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## Lynn Davies (Apr 6, 2016)

Oh Mark! I forgot to say not to cover it while cooking. You need to let the steam out to dry it up.


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## AndBreathe (Apr 6, 2016)

Mark Parrott said:


> Haven't tried frying it yet, but will do next time. Wife hated it so much It's hard to get her to try it again. She low carbs with me. Except for chocolate & crisps.



If you add a few spices, it's lovely fried.  Who ever thought Egg Fried "Rice" could be back on the agenda?


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## lucy123 (Apr 6, 2016)

I found a good chocolate bar in Tesco today
http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=290069878


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## Mark Parrott (Apr 6, 2016)

Looks good but best avoided. It contains polyols which when eaten to excess can cause a laxative effect. Must admit i have tried it though but only had a couple of squares each day. If you like dark chocolate then try anything with more than 75% cocoa. These are lower in sugar & you don't need more than a couple of squares to be satisfying.


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## Mark Parrott (Apr 6, 2016)

Lynn Davies said:


> Oh Mark! I forgot to say not to cover it while cooking. You need to let the steam out to dry it up.


Thanks, i assumed that was the case.


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## lucy123 (Apr 6, 2016)

But its better than a dairy milk - small changes!   Just a few squares as it is a large bar.  I always try to think what do I fancy and what would be a healthier version.  This is how I| started with my diabetes control the second time after going full blown the first try and ended up not eating enough and being totally bored.


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## Northerner (Apr 6, 2016)

lucy123 said:


> But its better than a dairy milk - small changes!   Just a few squares as it is a large bar.  I always try to think what do I fancy and what would be a healthier version.  This is how I| started with my diabetes control the second time after going full blown the first try and ended up not eating enough and being totally bored.


Your better bet with chocolate is to get some 85% cocoa dark chocolate - two squares of the stuff I bought in the Co-op is only 5g carbs total


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## Mark Parrott (Apr 6, 2016)

That co op one is lovely.


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## KookyCat (Apr 6, 2016)

I make a massive quiche with almond pastry (ground almond, butter, eggs, I use the Hemsley and Hemsley recipe) cook it and slice it into human size portions and freeze it, that way I can either defrost and have it for lunch with salad or heat it up for dinner.  Almost carb free, because the major carb element would be in the pastry.  Very substantial and yummy.

Another favourite is chicken Kiev but with almond crumb instead of breadcrumbs really quick and easy, you basically get 50g of butter, add 3 garlic cloves, chopped parsley and a teaspoon of lemon juice mix it and freeze for about 20 minutes, but I do a whole pack of butter and have it in the freezer ready.  Cut a whole in the tip of a chicken breast stuff the butter in, then dip your chicken in egg and cover in almonds (100g easily does two and if you add 1/2 teaspoon of paprika or cayenne it makes it quite delightful). Cook for 30 minutes on gas Mark 6.  Serve with spinach salad with lemon juice and olive oil dressing.  

My favourite lunch at the moment is vegetable pasta salad with pesto (cold) using wholemeal spelt pasta.  I use about 50g of pasta (cooked weight) which comes to around 20g of carb.  Steam a head of brocolli chop add to the pasta along with a few cherry toms, some pesto obviously )), a bit of mozzarella cheese, some olives, courgette noodles raw, torn up spinach leaves, raw peas and some fresh basil.  Sometimes I pop in a soft boiled egg for extra oomph.  I tend to make a few up at a time and leave them in the fridge so I can grab them as I fly out of the door.

Another lunch favourite is a falafel and hummous platter with olives and a red onion and olive oil dressing.  I make the fathead crackers (same recipe as the pizza base), this one might be less suitable though because falafel can be quite high carb, although it's very slow release so it's a personal thing.  I don't have any issue.

I also make my own "scotch" eggs, using the same coating as the chicken kiev, I use sausage meat (proper sausage) round a soft boiled egg, then roll it in the almond mixture and bake.  Ooh and eggs in tomatoes is lovely.  

I'm not a low carber really, I consider myself a moderate carb person by virtue of being a whole food fan, so breakfast is a small bowl of porridge and a small slice of spelt toast with avocado, with a bit of salt and pepper, or baked eggs on toast (when I have 2 slices of spelt loaf which is around 24g of carb the slices are small though).

I don't like cauliflower rice, but then I don't like rice or rice dishes either so it perhaps wasn't a surprise, I'd essentially rather chew on my own toenails than eat egg fried rice so cauli egg fried rice was never going to light me on fire.  

Anyway happy cooking.  I've found the key is making time to do bulk cooking and utilising the freezer, otherwise you spend a good portion of your time slaving over a hot stove if you're not a meat fan.  I'm not, I rarely eat any meat other than chicken occasionally so low carb can be challenging


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## Mark Parrott (Apr 6, 2016)

Some great recipes there Kooky. Love scotch eggs so might try that myself. I have tried normal scotch eggs & they dont affect me that much.


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## KookyCat (Apr 6, 2016)

Mark Parrott said:


> Some great recipes there Kooky. Love scotch eggs so might try that myself. I have tried normal scotch eggs & they dont affect me that much.



Normal ones don't have much impact on me either, but the ones with almond coating are soooo much nicer I just prefer them...might have to make a batch now, could just go a scotchie


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## Mark Parrott (Apr 6, 2016)

Much nicer home made rather than the shop bought ones.


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## HOBIE (Apr 6, 2016)

Fish with extra fish


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## GregP (Apr 6, 2016)

KookyCat said:


> Normal ones don't have much impact on me either, but the ones with almond coating are soooo much nicer I just prefer them...might have to make a batch now, could just go a scotchie


I need these scotch eggs in my life right now


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## KookyCat (Apr 7, 2016)

GregP said:


> I need these scotch eggs in my life right now



Give them a try, the almonds turn them into a superfood too, fibre, selenium, magnesium and some beautiful omegas....what's not to love


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## DeusXM (Apr 7, 2016)

Mark Parrott said:


> Looks good but best avoided. It contains polyols which when eaten to excess can cause a laxative effect. Must admit i have tried it though but only had a couple of squares each day. If you like dark chocolate then try anything with more than 75% cocoa. These are lower in sugar & you don't need more than a couple of squares to be satisfying.



Allegedly, erythritol is apparently the one sugar alcohol that is different and the way it is digested supposedly avoids this this effect. I've no practical experience with it though, so I'd still treat with caution!


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## lucy123 (Apr 7, 2016)

Northerner said:


> Your better bet with chocolate is to get some 85% cocoa dark chocolate - two squares of the stuff I bought in the Co-op is only 5g carbs total


That's good - how big is the bar?


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## lucy123 (Apr 7, 2016)

Thanks KC - and everyone else - some brilliant suggestions and advice - eggs sound lovely.


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## Northerner (Apr 7, 2016)

lucy123 said:


> That's good - how big is the bar?


100g = 10 squares, 2.4g carbs per square


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## lucy123 (Apr 7, 2016)

Northerner said:


> 100g = 10 squares, 2.4g carbs per square


But mine says 2.5g for 4 squares so isn't mine better   Am I reading the labels wrong? 
Also what would you suggest as a starter for carbs per meal or per snack?  I know I have to test and retest but want to start fairly healthy. Would 50g be too high?


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## Mark Parrott (Apr 8, 2016)

lucy123 said:


> But mine says 2.5g for 4 squares so isn't mine better   Am I reading the labels wrong?


The squares might be different sizes.


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## lucy123 (Apr 8, 2016)

Good point!


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## chili (Apr 8, 2016)

AndBreathe said:


> Have you tried stir frying the cauli rice (with or without a small amount of oil, and/or spices? Alternatively, grating it, via the food processor for me, then oven cook for a short while? It's been a while since I did cauli rice as a cauli is over £6 here, unless frozen, which isn't my preference.



My i ask where you live to pay £6 for a cauli?


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## AndBreathe (Apr 8, 2016)

chili said:


> My i ask where you live to pay £6 for a cauli?


I'm in the Leeward Islands at the moment, so a cauli isn't a local thing at all.


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## Lynn Davies (Apr 8, 2016)

Is that the Caribbean or the Pacific?


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## AndBreathe (Apr 8, 2016)

Caribbean, although many islands have both Caribbean and Atlantic coasts.


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## Lynn Davies (Apr 8, 2016)

I feel much better now! Had it been the Pacific I would have had serious envy!


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## lucy123 (Apr 8, 2016)

I do have serious envy now


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## lucy123 (Apr 9, 2016)

I am trying the lido roll today so thank you for making me aware. Have tested before and will test again at 2 hours.  My first thought is they are much bigger than expected and very filling - still only half way through (cut them in half and toasted).  Does anyone know the carbs and sugar content of each one?  By the way I went at 7pm last night and got 8 (going to try freezing) and there was still lots left for everyone else


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## Mark Parrott (Apr 9, 2016)

Don't know the sugar content, but carbs are about 11g for a whole one. They freeze very well.


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## lucy123 (Apr 9, 2016)

Well here are the testing results for the Lidl roll - and I have to say a big success I think.

9.15    12.8
Then ate roll with thin spread of butter
10.08   12.2 (how did that happen)
10.42    13.2
11.10     11.9

I know this is excessive testing but I am desperately trying to get some control back.
Do you agree this is a good result?

I do feel very dizzy today though but was told by GP dizziness is generally not caused by high sugars.  These sugars may not be high to some of you but I am used to being in the 5-7 range until recently.


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## Robin (Apr 9, 2016)

lucy123 said:


> I do feel very dizzy today though but was told by GP dizziness is generally not caused by high sugars. These sugars may not be high to some of you but I am used to being in the 5-7 range until recently


High sugars ( above 10) cause the kidneys to try and get rid of excess sugar by excreting it. Hence you pee more, and if you don't drink extra to replenish the lost fluid, you can become dehydrated. Dehydration can cause low blood pressure ( some BP meds work on the diuretic principle) which can make you feel dizzy, so it could all be interconnected. 
There may however be other reasons for your dizziness. I think the next question after your GP says, 'dizziness is not caused by diabetes' is, 'OK, what is causing it then?'


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## Mark Parrott (Apr 9, 2016)

lucy123 said:


> Well here are the testing results for the Lidl roll - and I have to say a big success I think.
> 
> 9.15    12.8
> Then ate roll with thin spread of butter
> ...



That is a great result.  I usually get an increase of about 1.5mmols so better than me.


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## lucy123 (Apr 9, 2016)

I know - so pleased I have had another one with Pate for lunch and some Ritz crisps!   Nice to have something different to eat instead of salad.


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## Lynn Davies (Apr 9, 2016)

lucy123 said:


> and some Ritz crisps



Step away from the crisps!!!!


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## Mark Parrott (Apr 9, 2016)

Last night we went Greek. Had chicken kebabs marinated in a Souvlaki mix, salad, stuffed green olives & tzatziki. Was absolutely gorgeous.


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## lucy123 (Apr 9, 2016)

Lynn Davies said:


> Step away from the crisps!!!!



I thought I had got it right?  

Ritz crisps
30g = 30.5g  carbs and 1.6g sugar

I ate 15g  so that's:
15.25g carb   and 0.8g sugar

that's ok with 11g carb and 1g sugar in the protein roll and pate (2g carb and 0.9 g sugar)  isn't it?  Total carbs 28.25g carbs sugar 2.7g?  for lunch?  I am trying to start at below 40g carbs and sugar as low as possible.  Are crisps not okay then?


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## Lynn Davies (Apr 9, 2016)

That's a lot of carbs for little nutrition value. 

It might be in the future once you have got everything under control and your body has adjusted you can have a snack with little or no impact on your BG.

I might be a bit anal regarding getting things under control but certainly for me it was gaining control first and then experimenting.


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## lucy123 (Apr 9, 2016)

Lynn Davies said:


> That's a lot of carbs for little nutrition value.
> 
> It might be in the future once you have got everything under control and your body has adjusted you can have a snack with little or no impact on your BG.
> 
> I might be a bit anal regarding getting things under control but certainly for me it was gaining control first and then experimenting.


I am so confused now.  I thought as a starting point to get control back - I would start at 40g per meal (this is lunch - not a snack) and test and adjust carbs downwards if need to.  I read somewhere for female diabetics to aim as a starter between 30g-45g per meal?  Is that not correct as this is only 28.5g for lunch?   I think I am confusing myself.

Is it back to the drawing board then?  This probably explains why my control has gone when I thought I was doing okay.  Feeling a bit deflated now.  Can someone help by explaining how many carbs I should have for 3 main meals to start with and how many for snacks ( I am starting all over as if starting for the first time - as before control was good until recently so assumed I had it right).

Just an add on though - ate lunch at 2pm

pre lunch bs 10.5
45 mins later 10
1hr 45 later 13.8

that's not so good is it.  Also why do my bs seem to drop after eating but then go up again?   I wish I understood all of this


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## Lynn Davies (Apr 9, 2016)

Carb levels vary from one person to the next. My tolerance is very low so I keep to less than 30 per day. Some are fine at 60 or even more.

By removing nutritionally valueless carbs you will soon find out what's what with your BG and can then begin to experiment with more carby foodstuff.


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## lucy123 (Apr 9, 2016)

Lynn Davies said:


> Carb levels vary from one person to the next. My tolerance is very low so I keep to less than 30 per day. Some are fine at 60 or even more.
> 
> By removing nutritionally valueless carbs you will soon find out what's what with your BG and can then begin to experiment with more carby foodstuff.



Hi Lynn, what do you mean by nutritionally valueless carbs?  What am I eating that isn't that?  The ritz crisps maybe but surely its best to have a little of what you fancy but keep as low carb/sugar as you can rather than go really low, get bored and not be able to maintain it isn't it?    At the moment I am trying to change for life which for me means thinking of what food I enjoy now and then trying to change to a healthier version of that food ( as in lower carb/sugars). I set the target at 40g carbs as a starter but you seem to be on much lower than that. As you say though its individual so I will keep trying for the next week to be as good as I can and let my bs tell me if its working -does my plan make sense and is it sensible?


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## Lynn Davies (Apr 9, 2016)

It is your choice how to manage you diabetes.  For me eating high carb snacks would mean a sacrifice of nutritionally more beneficial carbs.


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## robert@fm (Apr 9, 2016)

30.5g of carbs in 30g of product?  I don't see how that adds up...

Still, it's not as bad as the picture once posted here of the nutrition information for a sponge cake, which allegedly crammed nearly 6kg of carbs into only 100g of product...


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## lucy123 (Apr 9, 2016)

robert@fm said:


> 30.5g of carbs in 30g of product?  I don't see how that adds up...
> 
> Still, it's not as bad as the picture once posted here of the nutrition information for a sponge cake, which allegedly crammed nearly 6kg of carbs into only 100g of product...


Hi Robert - so sorry I am not following you.  Where does it say this?


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## robert@fm (Apr 9, 2016)

Found the thread I referred to above — Spot the Error


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## robert@fm (Apr 9, 2016)

lucy123 said:


> Hi Robert - so sorry I am not following you.  Where does it say this?


You were the one who gave the 30.5g carbs for 30g crisps figure.


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## lucy123 (Apr 9, 2016)

robert@fm said:


> You were the one who gave the 30.5g carbs for 30g crisps figure.


Sorry its 20.5g (mistype I think!) for a 30g serving and I had half so even better!
http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=288681817


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## AlisonM (Apr 9, 2016)

I started out with a very low carb regime, which I've relaxed a bit now, but I still stay below 100gm a day even with the MDI. I usually have Greek yoghurt and berries or oatmeal for breakfast and occasionally splurge on a grill up or something like mushrooms on toast. Lunch is usually my main meal of the day (the point at which I am most active) and will often be some kind of casserole or stew served with extra veg and maybe sweet potato mash or chips. Evening meal is usually soup or a salad of some kind. Last night's was chicken picata with a green salad (rocket, watercress and endive) and dressing made from fresh mandarin segments, cider vinegar and a hint of honey. I don't snack much but if I have the munchies, I'll go for sweet potato crisps (I make them in the microwave), or a square or two of 85% chocolate.


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## lucy123 (Apr 9, 2016)

AlisonM said:


> I started out with a very low carb regime, which I've relaxed a bit now, but I still stay below 100gm a day even with the MDI. I usually have Greek yoghurt and berries or oatmeal for breakfast and occasionally splurge on a grill up or something like mushrooms on toast. Lunch is usually my main meal of the day (the point at which I am most active) and will often be some kind of casserole or stew served with extra veg and maybe sweet potato mash or chips. Evening meal is usually soup or a salad of some kind. Last night's was chicken picata with a green salad (rocket, watercress and endive) and dressing made from fresh mandarin segments, cider vinegar and a hint of honey. I don't snack much but if I have the munchies, I'll go for sweet potato crisps (I make them in the microwave), or a square or two of 85% chocolate.



Wow that is some progress with getting those bs down - well done.  I am starting at 40g x 3 per day and will reduce down as necessary - so not too far away.


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## AlisonM (Apr 9, 2016)

lucy123 said:


> Wow that is some progress with getting those bs down - well done.  I am starting at 40g x 3 per day and will reduce down as necessary - so not too far away.


Sounds like a sensible plan Lucy, you can adjust as you learn what works best for you.


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## Superheavy (Apr 9, 2016)

robert@fm said:


> 30.5g of carbs in 30g of product?  I don't see how that adds up...
> 
> Still, it's not as bad as the picture once posted here of the nutrition information for a sponge cake, which allegedly crammed nearly 6kg of carbs into only 100g of product...



My mum was doing a bake sale today, so was in the lugging stuff from the house to the village hall entourage carrying lots of cakes that I couldn't touch. Hopefully by Christmas I might be in a position to have a small piece! I'm sure some of them have that kind of level of carbs they are so good!


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## DeusXM (Apr 11, 2016)

I think one of the things to bear in mind about low carbing is if you want to see results quickly, it's best to jump in with both feet and then dial back how rigid you are.

What makes low-carbing effective isn't just the reduction of the load on your blood sugar. An imperfect analogy is to see your body as a bit like a hybrid engine in a car. In this, you've got an engine that runs on electric up to a certain amount of power, before switching over to petrol. Your body is the same - it runs off carbs up to a certain point, before switching over to fat. The interesting thing is, the more carbs you eat, the later your body switches over. If you eat fewer carbs, the 'set point' diminishes. The earlier your set point, the lower your blood sugar will be, the more fat you'll burn, and the more your cholesterol will drop. 

So the quickest way to drop that set point and start reaping the benefits is to go cold turkey. I personally think it's far easier to start off from going from a day with nearly 0g of carbs and then slowly add the carbs back in according to preference until it starts affecting your blood sugar. You can go the other way (ie. winding down gradually), but it'll take far longer to hit the right set point, and it'll also take far longer to get your blood sugar back down to normal levels in the first instance. 

You also get far more clear feedback as well. You can tell when your set point has dropped because your body will initially kick up a fuss - most people tend to get cold-like symptoms for a few days when it happens, also known as 'Atkins flu'.


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## lucy123 (Apr 12, 2016)

Do you not find that when you 0 carb or just low carb you feel so hungry and shaky?


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## Robin (Apr 12, 2016)

lucy123 said:


> Do you not find that when you 0 carb or just low carb you feel so hungry and shaky?


I find the opposite, if I have a low carb meal,it keeps me feeling full til the next meal, whereas a carby one leaves me feeling hungry in between times. Maybe as Deus XM said, it takes your body a bit of time to adjust.


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## Mark Parrott (Apr 12, 2016)

One thing ive noticed since going low carb is feeling full but not stuffed & uncomfortable. Its about getting the fat content right. If you low carb you should increase fat to fill you up.


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## DeusXM (Apr 12, 2016)

The other thing is to avoid the mistake that everyone makes when they low-carb. Most people start out on a diet that is relatively low in fat, and when they switch to low-carb, they continue to stay on a low-fat diet too, which means they are eating almost nothing. Many people who adopt a low-carb diet successfully probably take in around 60-70% of their total daily calories from fat and that's a huge conceptual shift to get your head around. You're supposed to eat plenty of eggs, butter, nuts, cheese, avocados, olives etc. If you simply carry on with your normal diet but cut out the carbs and don't do any further adjustments, what you're really doing is cutting out the calories. It's not a case of thinking "I normally have a ham sandwich, a packet of crisps and an apple for lunch, so now I'm low carbing, I'll just have the ham" - it's putting the ham in a salad with plenty of olive oil and maybe some cheese, having peanuts instead of crisps, and then some regular (not low fat) Greek yogurt with berries, for instance.

The flipside of this is that fat actually makes you feel fuller for longer. You know all that nonsense that dieticians spout about how wholemeal is amazing because it is slow release and so you have a regular, steady supply of glucose? Fat's even slower release energy, so eat the right amount and you'll not be short of energy in general and feel fuller. I second Mark's point about the difference between feeling full and uncomfortable. We're all familiar with that feeling of when we've eaten too much bread - that stuffed, lethargic, bloated feeling. That goes after a couple of hours. But I've found if I have a decent sized omelette for breakfast, I get to a point where although I don't feel stuffed, my body just refuses to want to eat anymore...and that feeling can last for hours and hours. I don't feel full, but neither do I feel hungry, and the end result is, counter-intuitively, I probably eat fewer calories in a day.

Just to emphasise, I'm not telling people they must go on a low-carb diet or that low-carb fixes everything. As a T1, lower carb intake introduces a whole new set of complex issues that need to be managed. I'm also a great believer in that people need to pick a diet that delivers the lifestyle and blood sugar goals they need, and that may or may not be low-carb. I just think it's important that everyone is in full possession of the facts, rather than the dogma that is perpetuated by nutritionists terrified of fat or Bernstein acolytes who view bread as a crime against humanity.


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## SB2015 (Apr 12, 2016)

lucy123 said:


> I am trying the lido roll today so thank you for making me aware. Have tested before and will test again at 2 hours. My first thought is they are much bigger than expected and very filling - still only half way through (cut them in half and toasted). Does anyone know the carbs and sugar content of each one? By the way I went at 7pm last night and got 8 (going to try freezing) and there was still lots left for everyone else



I buy about 5 at a time, cut them in half and freeze them.  I tried a whole one the first time and couldn't manage it!  I reckon that the extra effort chewing helps to reduce the impact of the carbs as well!


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## SB2015 (Apr 12, 2016)

Thanks DeusXM.  I had switched to lower carbs, and had a vague idea of the fat issues.  Please keep your detailed info coming as I will gradually get to understand it.   Is there a book that you would recommend on this.  I have so far only had the dietician advice of the DUK balanced diet plate, ie you need carbs.


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## DeusXM (Apr 12, 2016)

Dr Bernstein's Diabetes Solution is probably still the gold standard on all of this, despite sounding a bit like an infomercial title. I don't completely agree with everything he recommends as he's a bit puritanical and I think he forgets that we treat our diabetes to live, not live to treat our diabetes. 

He is the reason, however, why you and I have the opportunity to test our own blood sugar at home.

Gary Scheiner's Think Like a Pancreas is also good as a general primer - interesting, Gary has publicly raised a point I've also noticed about low-carb diets in that there are a few elements about them that can make them complex for T1s.

For a more in-depth look at the entire relationship between carbs, fat and health, Gary Taubes' Why We Get Fat is very readable, and Zoe Harcombe is also worth a look. As ever though, remember these guys have books to sell, so treat them with a healthy degree of skepticism. No-one has all the answers and the best thing is to find what works for you.

On a safety note, I don't recommend any T1 try reducing their carbs without having first mastered the arts of adjusting their basal and matching their boluses and correction factors.


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## lucy123 (Apr 12, 2016)

Wow thanks everyone.  I think the nail has been well and truly hit on the head with the ham sandwich scenario!  That is what I have been doing.  Time to get the cheese and olives etc in.  

This morning I had just chicken breast for breakfast but ate the skin too.

I am also trying to work out why I feel so tired today!  Struggling to get up and move.


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## AndBreathe (Apr 12, 2016)

lucy123 said:


> Wow thanks everyone.  I think the nail has been well and truly hit on the head with the ham sandwich scenario!  That is what I have been doing.  Time to get the cheese and olives etc in.
> 
> This morning I had just chicken breast for breakfast but ate the skin too.
> 
> I am also trying to work out why I feel so tired today!  Struggling to get up and move.



Lucy - Some of your fatigue could be from reducing your carbs along the way.  Some folks notice a dip in energy (I didn't), some have almost hangover symptoms and some lucky people just sail on through the transition.  If you do have a carb hangover (sometimes known as carb flu), it's likely to disappear in a few days.  Just go with the flow and try not to over analise absolutely everything in these early days.

It looks like you have a plan which sounds good.

My approach was quite simple, once I worked out what needed to be done, and that was I cut out all the obvious stuff I could - bread, potatoes, pasta, rice, and the obvious sugars, and decided I'd try to just get my carbs from vegetables.  That really worked for me, in that it was simple, my OH, who does the vast majority of our cooking, could "get it" quickly, so it saved on too many oooopsie moments, although we inevitably did have several.

I didn't deliberately count carbs, or set myself a target level, just followed my approach, although I did keep (and still do, every day) a food diary on myfitnesspal.  Once you start adding your regular foods it gets really quick to maintain.

 If you can find yourself a simple means of approaching this to begin with at least, it'll be more sustainable and over thinking things can lead to a bit of burn out if we're not careful.  We all have days when we wish this would just push right off, but you'll be fine, and once you get past the initial stages and see improvements to your scores it's very easy, in my view, to remain motivated.

Good luck with it all.


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## Superheavy (Apr 12, 2016)

Cheers @DeusXM - some really good insights in there, and it seems to tie in with what I'm (constantly!) learning when it comes to managing blood glucose levels. Think I'll check out the Dr Bernstein book too - pick out the things that suit the balance I'm looking to achieve, and leave the extra-puritanical stuff.

@lucy123 - I'm a few weeks out since the big diet and lifestyle change, and while I started off with tiny unsatisfying meals, long term that wasn't sustainable, so balancing a few things I like and a few things I should eat which don't spike the levels too much is what I'm aiming for. I'm still getting headaches, which I think is a part of the sugar withdrawal symptoms, but apart from that I'm not finding hunger to be too much of an issue.


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