# after last nights basal test, I need some advice on changing basal rates...



## SilentAssassin1642 (Nov 6, 2010)

So, I am here all zombified due to a full on all night basal test last night

Here's the results

Pre bed: 4.8
23.45 6.2
12.45 7.0
2.30 8.5
4.30 9.6
11.30 8.2 (wake up)

My current basal rates are:
12-1 0.45
1-2 0.50
2-3 0.55
3-4 0.60
4-5 0.60
5-6 0.60
6-7 0.60
7-8 0.55
8-9 0.55

So I'm sat here working out what to change. If I had crawled out of bed earlier my levels would have been much higher, that's through sheer experience so I think I need more as we get forward during the night.

So, I'm thinking of changing my 1-2 basal and upping it to 0.55 (big jump I know, but go with me here) and then going 1-2 to 0.55 to match the 1-3 rates. And then going 3-7 to 0.65? 

Or should I just go nuts dyu think and up the 0.6 to 0.7?

This is going to bug me all day, I'm not sure if its my tired brain just hating me and not letting me think so I thought I would ask your advice. Shall I just go with my first instinct and do a 0.5 change on the times I think I need more? Or shall I just throw caution to the wind and go for a 0.1 change?

Thanks all - my logic is totally out of the window today, if I did it without asking anyone I'd probably end up doing something really really stupid.

Sorry for asking so many questions, but with a nurse who is basically incontactable I could do with all the help I can get


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## tracey w (Nov 6, 2010)

Sam, am working out what i would do then will let you know my thoughts.

What time was your pre bed reading and how long was it after bolus?

also, did you say you change hour before for the effect of basal change wheras i am two hours before?


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## SilentAssassin1642 (Nov 6, 2010)

tracey w said:


> Sam, am working out what i would do then will let you know my thoughts.
> 
> What time was your pre bed reading and how long was it after bolus?
> 
> also, did you say you change hour before for the effect of basal change wheras i am two hours before?



Bolus was at er...6.30pm. Bed was quarter to middnight (I think), hang on and I'll tell you...23.05, didn't actually sleep until 23.45 when I was 6.2 (I'd been panicking about going hypo, so was very pleased when i checked right before bed and saw that lololol)

I've done some initial changes, what I said in my first post, but any more suggestions would be most welcome 

also yes, I go for an hour before cuz thats what nursey said I should do :/ :/ not that I can really trust what she says, being that she's gone MIA lol.

When I checked and it was 4.8 I think there was a 0.1u IOB left, 6.2 and nothing left. Hurrah.


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## tracey w (Nov 6, 2010)

Ok Sam, going off these readings and presuming you change 1 hour before for the affect 1 hour later.

I increase and decrease by 0.05 every time and take it from there, dont be tempted to go too much as it may  be just that, too much. Little steps, slowly slowly catchy monkey! 

12- 1 am i would increase to 0.50 to affect 1 - 2 am

1 -2 am i would increase to 0.55 to affect 2 -3 am

3 -4 i would increase to 0.65 to affect 4 -5 am

This is 3 increases overnight so i think you will see a difference. By the way the numbers are not far off are they, well done? 

And sorry to say, you need to retest to check the effects, but i will be worth it when you are getting full nights sleep with confidence your numbers are good.


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## tracey w (Nov 6, 2010)

Well you have risen there in 45mins, but i would ignore that for now as you may have been affected by food etc?

Personally i do two hours before but if you think its one that affect you then go with that, you will soon find out!


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## SilentAssassin1642 (Nov 6, 2010)

tracey w said:


> Ok Sam, going off these readings and presuming you change 1 hour before for the affect 1 hour later.
> 
> I increase and decrease by 0.05 every time and take it from there, dont be tempted to go too much as it may  be just that, too much. Little steps, slowly slowly catchy monkey!
> 
> ...



nooooooooo not more testing  Can I do it next weekend? hehe. In all seriousness though, a full on test I can only really do on a friday/saturday, but I can do a couple of tests overnight on work night. Am gonna schedule a 3am test tonight I think, see how that goes and then do it that way until I can get a full on evenings testing done next er...Saturday now I think, working saturday daytime so friday night is out of the question :/

I am still really scared that even with these changes I'll wake on bad numbers  I mean, ok so waking on 8,9,10 isnt really too far off being right. But when I get those horrid 14's, I hate that 

But that blummin' monkey needs to slow down a bit so I can catch it. Bloody thing is too far out of reach right now! hehe =]

Thanks Tracey, thats really helpful!


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## SilentAssassin1642 (Nov 6, 2010)

tracey w said:


> Well you have risen there in 45mins, but i would ignore that for now as you may have been affected by food etc?
> 
> Personally i do two hours before but if you think its one that affect you then go with that, you will soon find out!



we'll get there, slowly but surely. I just wish it would hurry up  Because then I can concentrate more on the daytime hehe


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## tracey w (Nov 6, 2010)

I think your doing well with those numbers, i really think its only little tweaks you need in the night now. 

I do think it would be beneficial to test at 3 am and the next night 5 am just to check? You may need to increase again at the times i mentioned. I know its hard work on the pump but you need to do it hun? 

After that i would go for the morning peaks you are getting?


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## SilentAssassin1642 (Nov 6, 2010)

tracey w said:


> I think your doing well with those numbers, i really think its only little tweaks you need in the night now.
> 
> I do think it would be beneficial to test at 3 am and the next night 5 am just to check? You may need to increase again at the times i mentioned. I know its hard work on the pump but you need to do it hun?
> 
> After that i would go for the morning peaks you are getting?



I think you're right. 3am tonight, 5am tomorrow night just to see what's going on. Fingers crossed it's only gonna be a teeny tiny bit more tweaking to get there.

Thanks tracey  It still seems like a so close but so far moment. 

Problem is, lasagne for tea tonight  i wonder if that will provide any bad effects if eaten early enough? 

It is hard work, and I can see that light there at the end of the tunnel and its just that last sprint to get it right but jeeeeeez i'm flagging a bit lol. Just a bit more though and I think the nail will be hit well and truly on the head

overnight at least.

OH GOD THE DAYTIME PEAKS D: I actually think they are going to be my biggest challenge! But, I CAN DO IT!!!!


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## tracey w (Nov 6, 2010)

As long as you know your setting for lasagne and you eat it early enough you will be fine by 3am!

good luck


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## SilentAssassin1642 (Nov 6, 2010)

tracey w said:


> As long as you know your setting for lasagne and you eat it early enough you will be fine by 3am!
> 
> good luck



multiwave, over 2 hours and all is always well 

except if i decide to have chips 

lol I'm kidding

Thanks tracey, I'll update with the 3am test and waking results in the morning


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## Ellie Jones (Nov 6, 2010)

Sam

Looking at those readings, they aren't too bad at all can't add anymore to changes than Tracey...

But reckon sort out these last changes, and if you are in similar range, it be worth saying right lets put the night-time basal testing on the back burner and get my day time sorted...   As once you start on your day time you may find that the night-time fall into place a  better with a knock on effect from improved day results...

And you could really do with a good nights sleep...

There is one thing though that may be worth taking a second look at, is your IOB setting, giving a double check whether the settings are correct..  As it may be that your insulin isn't lasting quite as long as you first thought...  Hence why such as large rise in BG, it maybe that when your IOB was giving 0.6u of active insulin left, there actually wasn't!  Worth a double check me thinks..

Must admit it can be a mindfield at first, trying to unravel what is what, and what is effecting what etc...  But keep plodding and it should all start to unravel and show it self


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## SilentAssassin1642 (Nov 6, 2010)

Ellie Jones said:


> Sam
> 
> Looking at those readings, they aren't too bad at all can't add anymore to changes than Tracey...
> 
> ...



here's a question...

how do you actually work out how long there is IOB? For me, that's the most confusing part of it. 

Also, how would I play about with daytime basal tests when its such a minefield with having to guess when to lower insulin for my walk to work? Either that or I do a daytime one tomorrow, but alas I am off out to watch Steve Backshall's deadly day out (sad I know) in the morning so that wouldn't work. Man this makes my head hurt.

So for instance, my sheet of paper from nurse says to not skip breakfast, have it as normal and then test from there...but surely that defies the oibject espesh in my base where i get an epic rise after breakfast that just won't shift for hours. Do I skip breakfast, do a normal 10% TBR for 2 hours and test as of when i get to work?

It's all very complicated.


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## SilentAssassin1642 (Nov 6, 2010)

so many question for everyone today  sorry


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## tracey w (Nov 6, 2010)

Sam, I would sort out the overnight, tonight and tomorrow, foget about everything else then move on.

I think you try to get everything right and are changing too much at once, slowly like i say. Like Ellie says once one thing is right, then the next it will all start fitting into place.

As for IOB, this is something you set up at the beginning. My dsn set as my bolus lasts 4 hours, however i know my quick acting can hang around for 4 and half to five hours.  So i changed mine to 4 and half hours. You will know yourself how long it lasts for you?

So if for example your dsn  set it at  4 hours then this is what is being calculated by the wizzard, its only right if the 4 hours is right? hope that makes some kind of sense.

If your not sure, then test it. give a bolus and keep testing till your sure its not working anymore, you do really need to do this at a time when you know your basal is right though, bit like chicken and egg


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## SilentAssassin1642 (Nov 6, 2010)

tracey w said:


> Sam, I would sort out the overnight, tonight and tomorrow, foget about everything else then move on.
> 
> I think you try to get everything right and are changing too much at once, slowly like i say. Like Ellie says once one thing is right, then the next it will all start fitting into place.
> 
> ...



its one hell of a mountain i see before me  even though its seems so close, it seems so far away too.

Seriously hoping that these changes start showing some improvements. 

As for the IOB, I think I'm just gunna leave that be for a while. Too confusing right now.


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## tracey w (Nov 6, 2010)

IOB is not something that ever really concerns me to be honest. Im sorry i didnt mean to confuse things, you asked the question and i tried to answer as best i could.

The way i think about IOB is, say you have something to eat and its only 1 hour since your last bolus, you take a reading and its say 10, i would not correct because " i know " the bolus for that is still working, so i just bolus for what im about to eat. 

Sam im pumping for a year and still testing basals and changing ratios, so do not worry, you are doing good. I totally get that things will always be changing and you just have to keep adjusting the best you can.


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## Ellie Jones (Nov 6, 2010)

Believe me Sam there were times at the beginning when like you, I ponder whether banging my head against a wall would make more sense!   As yes the theory all looks so simple all in nice little sections, but practice it?s not as easy to section as is the theory...  Bit like unravelling an archeologically dig really, slowly piecing the information together over a period of time...

I won?t go into detail about achieving day time basal testing at the moment as not to fuddle things to much, but will expand when you?ll ready to start it and then hopefully between us all, we can come up with an effective plan to enable you to get the data you need to sort it quickly.  I?ve got a couple of suggestion in mind that might well be very helpful..

But keep asking the question though, it helps to know what information etc you need...

As for lasagne for tea, if you do decided to do some basal testing bare in mind pasta does impact for a lot longer than we tend to give it credit for on our blood glucose, so any results gained tonight might be more useful with determining the effects on you when eating pasta than actual testing of your basal dose...  No information is wasted just sometimes we need to work out the best way of using it...


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## SilentAssassin1642 (Nov 6, 2010)

Ellie Jones said:


> Believe me Sam there were times at the beginning when like you, I ponder whether banging my head against a wall would make more sense!   As yes the theory all looks so simple all in nice little sections, but practice it?s not as easy to section as is the theory...  Bit like unravelling an archeologically dig really, slowly piecing the information together over a period of time...
> 
> I won?t go into detail about achieving day time basal testing at the moment as not to fuddle things to much, but will expand when you?ll ready to start it and then hopefully between us all, we can come up with an effective plan to enable you to get the data you need to sort it quickly.  I?ve got a couple of suggestion in mind that might well be very helpful..
> 
> ...



I love the archaeology bit there - speaking as an archaeologist myself, that is a really good way of looking at it. Digging through the layers methodically,

Indiana Jones agrees, oh yes he does







all joking aside however

I tend to be ok with pasta, oddly. Tend to get a rise after about 2.5 hours, but only a very small one so tend to run a bolus over 3 hours or so. 

Agreed, lets leave daytime bits for a couple more days. Hopefully over the next couple of days there are some real improvements from the changes made, and that would make my day


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## SilentAssassin1642 (Nov 7, 2010)

12 this morning, but i guess a number of factors play into this...

lasagne possbly has a longer effect on me
sleeping in.

we'll see how it plays out tomorrow.


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## shiv (Nov 7, 2010)

Sam - just thinking about what Gary Scheiner said at FFL. If you've got say, a cheesy sauce in that lasagne, that could add to the slow release of carbs. 

He suggested for pizza giving the bolus over 2 hours, then setting a 150% temp basal for 8 hours. I tried it last night after pizza, except I did the temp basal over 4 hours as we only had small pizzas and it did seem to work although I think I do need to do it for the full 8 hours as I rose between 3 and 7.30am despite a small correction at 3am. 

Not sure how that theory works with pasta, but I'm going to try it soon. I reckon it could work quite well.


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## SilentAssassin1642 (Nov 7, 2010)

shiv said:


> Sam - just thinking about what Gary Scheiner said at FFL. If you've got say, a cheesy sauce in that lasagne, that could add to the slow release of carbs.
> 
> He suggested for pizza giving the bolus over 2 hours, then setting a 150% temp basal for 8 hours. I tried it last night after pizza, except I did the temp basal over 4 hours as we only had small pizzas and it did seem to work although I think I do need to do it for the full 8 hours as I rose between 3 and 7.30am despite a small correction at 3am.
> 
> Not sure how that theory works with pasta, but I'm going to try it soon. I reckon it could work quite well.



i LIKE that idea! We're having pizza next week. I might try it.

I was at 4.8 pre bed, so I guess any rises were coming later.


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## SilentAssassin1642 (Nov 7, 2010)

also, because we're out of food for the week of everything bar pasta and pasta bake sauce, guess whats for dinner tonight.

I'm wondering whether to try that theroy - do the bolus over 2 hours and then temp basal it for 4 or 6. It's interesting and got me thinking.

And yeah, I forgot to say matt made a really cheesy sauce last night. Could be half of the problem


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## tracey w (Nov 7, 2010)

Sam are you going to test the changes of your overnight basal tonight? Until you get that right you wont be able to move onto those high morning readings? 

If i eat any pasta etc i would dual wave for at least 4 -6 hours as it takes so long to digest.


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## SilentAssassin1642 (Nov 7, 2010)

tracey w said:


> Sam are you going to test the changes of your overnight basal tonight? Until you get that right you wont be able to move onto those high morning readings?
> 
> If i eat any pasta etc i would dual wave for at least 4 -6 hours as it takes so long to digest.



i doubt it, work tomorrow and we don't have anything no carb/low carb in the house. 

I just want to wake up on good levels. But if i test tonight I'll end up an emotional wreck at work tomorrow.

I am currently having a crying session over this whole messed up me and the pump situation. I hate that I can't seem to get anything right with it, and part of me wants to go back to injections even though my control is so much worse on that.


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## tracey w (Nov 7, 2010)

dont be silly Sam you are doing fine.

I only ask because no point making a change if you dont test to see result. I often test in the night regardless of working etc. I understand you are tired with it all, its tough.

do you have a problem getting back to sleep after a test? i go straight back off so i dont find it a problem. I totally understand if for you it seems to disturb your whole nights sleep


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## SilentAssassin1642 (Nov 7, 2010)

tracey w said:


> dont be silly Sam you are doing fine.
> 
> I only ask because no point making a change if you dont test to see result. I often test in the night regardless of working etc. I understand you are tired with it all, its tough.
> 
> do you have a problem getting back to sleep after a test? i go straight back off so i dont find it a problem. I totally understand if for you it seems to disturb your whole nights sleep



it does disturb my sleep way too much, I take ages to go back to sleep and it makes me all emotional and snappy. Bit like now actually. Urgh, I am a soppy thing.

I might do it tonight. But wouldn't the pasta get in the way? Or maybe I'll just get something else for dinner tonight.

Matt keeps telling me to just randomly change bits in the night, which just resulted in more tears because he doesn't understand. Nevermind.

I should dry my eyes and go out, treat myself to something nice.


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## tracey w (Nov 7, 2010)

SilentAssassin1642 said:


> it does disturb my sleep way too much, I take ages to go back to sleep and it makes me all emotional and snappy. Bit like now actually. Urgh, I am a soppy thing.
> 
> I might do it tonight. But wouldn't the pasta get in the way? Or maybe I'll just get something else for dinner tonight.
> 
> ...



yep, definately have a nice treat! dont change anything else util you test whenever that is. Otherwise you wont know whats affecting what.

Maybe you could have something with toast tonight instead of long digestion stuff? Egg and bacon on toast, mmm i want some now!


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## SilentAssassin1642 (Nov 7, 2010)

tracey w said:


> yep, definately have a nice treat! dont change anything else util you test whenever that is. Otherwise you wont know whats affecting what.
> 
> Maybe you could have something with toast tonight instead of long digestion stuff? Egg and bacon on toast, mmm i want some now!



ive gone and brought these amazing super low carb all meat sausages. 1g carbs per 100g and I adore them! A plate of those and I'll be well away, no effect on my bgs at all so yay

Also brought myself a nice book  money well spent I think


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## tracey w (Nov 7, 2010)

SilentAssassin1642 said:


> ive gone and brought these amazing super low carb all meat sausages. 1g carbs per 100g and I adore them! A plate of those and I'll be well away, no effect on my bgs at all so yay
> 
> Also brought myself a nice book  money well spent I think



sound yummy, enjoy!


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## shiv (Nov 7, 2010)

Dudes - just to let you know something else Gary S said - if you have a purely protein based meal (ie meat and eggs!) then 50% of the protein will turn into glucose. If you eat the protein with anything else, it doesn't - but if it's purely protein, you may need to bolus for it.

That's why he said a proper basal test involves no eating at all, apart from water and sugar free jelly apparently.


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## SilentAssassin1642 (Nov 7, 2010)

shiv said:


> Dudes - just to let you know something else Gary S said - if you have a purely protein based meal (ie meat and eggs!) then 50% of the protein will turn into glucose. If you eat the protein with anything else, it doesn't - but if it's purely protein, you may need to bolus for it.
> 
> That's why he said a proper basal test involves no eating at all, apart from water and sugar free jelly apparently.



Hmm, i have never ever had a problem with eating meat and basal testing. It has never had an effect on my BGs.


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## Ellie Jones (Nov 7, 2010)

Pasta as I said it does tend to last longer than given credit for... 

I've got a feeling from the readings you gave, that the pasta is hitting twice, by about 3 hours in it seems to have cleared they system, but it bites you a bit later...

This could because your evening basal are a bit high, so helping your bolus sort it, then in the earlier hours of the morning the combination of pasta taking a second hit and your DP is causing big problems..

Can you compare several days where you've eaten pasta for lunch or tea and see if there is any patterns which look similar to last nights results?

As I got a gut feeling if you can work out what the pasta is actually doing and when it actually does stop impacting on your BG's then sorting out your basals are going to be a lot easier and clearer..


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## bev (Nov 7, 2010)

SilentAssassin1642 said:


> Hmm, i have never ever had a problem with eating meat and basal testing. It has never had an effect on my BGs.



Sam, the only way of knowing whether it does or doesnt have an effect is to have 2 nights eating the same meat and testing basals. It might be masking a possible low level as Shiv is right - it does have an effect on levels for everyone.Bev


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## SilentAssassin1642 (Nov 7, 2010)

bev said:


> Sam, the only way of knowing whether it does or doesnt have an effect is to have 2 nights eating the same meat and testing basals. It might be masking a possible low level as Shiv is right - it does have an effect on levels for everyone.Bev



I ate meat for my dinner, and have stayed at a steady 6 ever since.


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## shiv (Nov 7, 2010)

SilentAssassin1642 said:


> I ate meat for my dinner, and have stayed at a steady 6 ever since.



Hence why I said you *may* need to bolus for it - not that you definitely would. Just sharing more words of goodness from Gary S.


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## Ellie Jones (Nov 8, 2010)

Sam am I'm right in thinking, when you were on MDI regime eating meat didn't have any showable impact on your blood glucose?

Quite often because of the way MDI works what we got used to under MDI regime doesn't always pan out when pumping, because of the ability of being able to fine tune it uncovers the failings of MDI, so sometimes we have to rejig our stredigies and angles concerning this...

*ducks* as Sam throws somthing at me

I know even more confusing information to add to the already confused information...

But keep soldiering on, you will get there and it will unravel itself and become clearer...


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## SilentAssassin1642 (Nov 8, 2010)

stop cunfuzzling me Ellie!!!!!!!!

Anyway, last night at 4am i was 10 - after going bed on 6.whatever. 2am i was 8.something. Hello more changes!

But after correcting tge 10 i woke at 6.8


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## tracey w (Nov 8, 2010)

shiv said:


> Dudes - just to let you know something else Gary S said - if you have a purely protein based meal (ie meat and eggs!) then 50% of the protein will turn into glucose. If you eat the protein with anything else, it doesn't - but if it's purely protein, you may need to bolus for it.
> 
> That's why he said a proper basal test involves no eating at all, apart from water and sugar free jelly apparently.



Thats really interesting, thanks for letting us know that. How much would you dose though as say bacon no cho value, would you just have to guess?


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## shiv (Nov 8, 2010)

He said to bolus as if 50% of the protein was glucose. So if there were 10g of protein in your serving of bacon, bolus as if it were 5g carbs  does that make sense?


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## tracey w (Nov 8, 2010)

shiv said:


> He said to bolus as if 50% of the protein was glucose. So if there were 10g of protein in your serving of bacon, bolus as if it were 5g carbs  does that make sense?



yes thanks, very useful I will take that on board.


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## bev (Nov 8, 2010)

SilentAssassin1642 said:


> I ate meat for my dinner, and have stayed at a steady 6 ever since.




Yes - but what you dont know is whether you might have been level 4 or something if you hadnt eaten the meat.Bev


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## tracey w (Nov 9, 2010)

i have found everything impacts bg, unlike mdi, which i presume was the background effect.

I ate a hard boiled egg recently and didnt bolus as i wanted to see what happened, wnt from 6 - 10 in 1 hour!  Now i know i would count that as 1 unit ish.


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## novorapidboi26 (Nov 9, 2010)

tracey w said:


> i have found everything impacts bg, unlike mdi, which i presume was the background effect.
> 
> I ate a hard boiled egg recently and didnt bolus as i wanted to see what happened, wnt from 6 - 10 in 1 hour!  Now i know i would count that as 1 unit ish.



Would you not increase your basal rate if that happened as opposed to bolusing for it....


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## tracey w (Nov 9, 2010)

novorapidboi26 said:


> Would you not increase your basal rate if that happened as opposed to bolusing for it....



no, its not the basal thats the problem, i did not bolus for the egg as its protein and hadnt eaten one by itself before,the effect was purely down to the egg.

the point i was making is that on mdi you do things differently to pumping because you have the background effect wheras on pumping you dont.


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## novorapidboi26 (Nov 9, 2010)

tracey w said:


> no, its not the basal thats the problem, i did not bolus for the egg as its protein and hadnt eaten one by itself before,the effect was purely down to the egg.
> 
> the point i was making is that on mdi you do things differently to pumping because you have the background effect wheras on pumping you dont.



When you say beackground effects what do you mean, both MDI and pumps give you background cover, dont they.....?

I am not pumping, yet, but I believe one egg would not do anything, significant, to warrant a blast of bolus and I probably wouldnt do it if on a pump, however people may be sensitive to food as well as insulin....

You said you went from 6-10 with one carb free egg, is that not alot.....


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## shiv (Nov 9, 2010)

NRboi: I have heard of lots of people bolusing for protein only meals - and this point was confirmed for me when I saw Gary Scheiner speak (google him) and he said if you have a protein only meal, such as an egg, then to treat 50% of that protein as if it were glucose. So yes, it is possible that you may need to bolus for something that is purely protein.

Going from 6 to 10 is a big jump but everyone is different, and carbs effect people very differently - ie 10g of carbs for some may raise BG levels 2 or 3mmol, for some it might be 4 or 5mmol.

Why don't you try eating a boiled egg alone and seeing what happens? If your basal is set correctly, and there are no other outside factors eg illness or exercise, then you will see the effect it has on you.

Tracey has clearly proved that one egg DOES and CAN have an effect on people. As you say you are not pumping so perhaps that is the key difference - your basal insulin may be covering that protein, whereas the basal rate on the pump is often smaller and so much more in tune with your body's needs (ie covering only the glucose produced by the liver) hour per hour (rather than the 12/24 hours on MDI).


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## bev (Nov 9, 2010)

We count eggs as 4 carbs each as they have an effect on Alex's levels and if we were doing a basal test we would do it free from any food to get a real picture of what is going on.Bev


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## tracey w (Nov 9, 2010)

novorapidboi26 said:


> When you say beackground effects what do you mean, both MDI and pumps give you background cover, dont they.....?
> 
> I am not pumping, yet, but I believe one egg would not do anything, significant, to warrant a blast of bolus and I probably wouldnt do it if on a pump, however people may be sensitive to food as well as insulin....
> 
> You said you went from 6-10 with one carb free egg, is that not alot.....



nrb, I was continuing the discussion on protein (turning into glucose if eaten by itself), insulin and pumping. I was merely stating what happened to ME when i ate a boiled egg. I did not bolus for it as i didnt know if i needed too, obviouosly I did. That may be personal to ME, it may not.

I was not discussing basal issues. If you had read the thread properly you would have known that.

Until you are pumping you cannot assume to know the differing affects between mdi and pumping. Yes I have a basal going continuously however, with fast acting insulin, it therefore has an effect immediately, unlike slow acting which can have a differing impact on food.

For instance on pumping after a hypo, fast acting glucose is necessary only and no slow acting cho needed, wheras it is needed on mdi due to the effect of slow acting insulin.


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## tracey w (Nov 9, 2010)

bev said:


> We count eggs as 4 carbs each as they have an effect on Alex's levels and if we were doing a basal test we would do it free from any food to get a real picture of what is going on.Bev



Absolutely Bev, any basal testing i do is fasting apart from water.


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## SilentAssassin1642 (Nov 9, 2010)

lo all

so for the past 2 days I've woken up on EXCELLENT levels. I had a 6.4 this morning, a 5.8 the previous. Epic. Except, daytime seems to have gone haywire. I got a 22.2 after lunch today :/ spent most of the day running high as a kite, only just down to normal levels.

By the time I got to work I was 7.1 which I was pleased with. An hour later I was 10 and climbing. Socorrected and bolused, had a teeny snack cuz i was hungry and found myself at 14 and climbing. So corrected, put a TBR on, had lunch as normal and BOOM 22.2. Not impressed. Had TBR's on most of the day...

Looks like I need to start re-basal testing in the day.

Any ideas on how I'll do this with having to put lower insulin on for my walk to work?


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## novorapidboi26 (Nov 10, 2010)

tracey w said:


> nrb, I was continuing the discussion on protein (turning into glucose if eaten by itself), insulin and pumping. I was merely stating what happened to ME when i ate a boiled egg. I did not bolus for it as i didnt know if i needed too, obviouosly I did. That may be personal to ME, it may not.
> 
> I was not discussing basal issues. If you had read the thread properly you would have known that.
> 
> ...



Dont get your knickers in a twist tracey..........

I was going off topic slightly but thats OK.....

I know you wernt discussing basal doses, but I was, I was asking for your opinion and knowledge on the subject and specifically if this is only recognised in a pumper due to the fact its only one insulin being delivered...

For example, me eating an egg would not effect my BG, is this because I am on a mixed basal insulin........


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## shiv (Nov 10, 2010)

Yes, nrboi. It is probably because you are on mixed insulin.


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## novorapidboi26 (Nov 10, 2010)

Thanks shiv...........thats all I was asking............and its quite interesting.......


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## tracey w (Nov 10, 2010)

novorapidboi26 said:


> Thanks shiv...........thats all I was asking............and its quite interesting.......



Its the way you ask sometimes that annoys people ......... it came across like you dont believe what i said

my knickers are not in a twist thank you nrb


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## bev (Nov 10, 2010)

tracey w said:


> Its the way you ask sometimes that annoys people ......... it came across like you dont believe what i said
> 
> my knickers are not in a twist thank you nrb



Tracey, I think this is where you have been going wrong - your tubing has been stuck in your knickers all this time and been twisted so insulin hasnt been getting through properly................doh.........Bev


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## SilentAssassin1642 (Nov 10, 2010)

bev said:


> Tracey, I think this is where you have been going wrong - your tubing has been stuck in your knickers all this time and been twisted so insulin hasnt ben getting through properly................doh.........Bev



LOL!

Let's get back on topic? 

I woke on 7.1 this morning. VERY PLEASED. But...rising throughout the morning to stupid levels again. Had that 22 yesterday and managed to get to 16 after lunch today. Stupid pump *pokes it with a stick*


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## tracey w (Nov 10, 2010)

bev said:


> Tracey, I think this is where you have been going wrong - your tubing has been stuck in your knickers all this time and been twisted so insulin hasnt been getting through properly................doh.........Bev



haha   lol


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## tracey w (Nov 10, 2010)

SilentAssassin1642 said:


> LOL!
> 
> Let's get back on topic?
> 
> I woke on 7.1 this morning. VERY PLEASED. But...rising throughout the morning to stupid levels again. Had that 22 yesterday and managed to get to 16 after lunch today. Stupid pump *pokes it with a stick*



Sam, did you do the overnight tests to check all is well? Numbers good, but you need to check before moving on.

If you have then great, move onto basal testing from waking up to lunchtime. I wouldnt change or do tbr going to work, you need to see exactly what is what.

You will need a different profile for work and days off though as your activity seems totally different. I think you need to get the work one sorted as this is more of your days.

Anyone else think differently?


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## SilentAssassin1642 (Nov 10, 2010)

tracey w said:


> Sam, did you do the overnight tests to check all is well? Numbers good, but you need to check before moving on.
> 
> If you have then great, move onto basal testing from waking up to lunchtime. I wouldnt change or do tbr going to work, you need to see exactly what is what.
> 
> ...



I've been 3am testing as I honestly cannot do another full on one on a work night  all three days I've been at 5-6. Very pleased  Gonna do a full one probs saturday night now. 

Re the daytime one for work/home, how the hell do i work that one? Test at work, change then do a seperate one on non work days? Also, how do I work around the walk to work thing.

Am fed up of having to have really high TBR's on during the day and not seeing results til night on kick off time.

Also, I'll probs have to have another profile thingy for when I do late shifts. Joy...

Oh well, we seem to be making progress at least...


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## tracey w (Nov 10, 2010)

SilentAssassin1642 said:


> I've been 3am testing as I honestly cannot do another full on one on a work night  all three days I've been at 5-6. Very pleased  Gonna do a full one probs saturday night now.
> 
> Re the daytime one for work/home, how the hell do i work that one? Test at work, change then do a seperate one on non work days? Also, how do I work around the walk to work thing.
> 
> ...



I would test on work day, like i said, no tbr, cos if you do you  dont know what your actual basal is up to? with the results you can then tweak, If you are worried you will hypo, then i would wait till day off and get that set up right first. then on your work day you can programme a lower basal for that time, if that makes sense.

One thing at a time then other days/profiles are just a matter of tweaking your basic rates.


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## SilentAssassin1642 (Nov 10, 2010)

tracey w said:


> I would test on work day, like i said, no tbr, cos if you do you  dont know what your actual basal is up to? with the results you can then tweak, If you are worried you will hypo, then i would wait till day off and get that set up right first. then on your work day you can programme a lower basal for that time, if that makes sense.
> 
> One thing at a time then other days/profiles are just a matter of tweaking your basic rates.



See, I *know* I will hypo if I leave it running and walk to work  after a couple of rather terrifying ones both to and from work. 

So, should I set my basals to 20% as I always do an hour before leaving, and then switch back soon as I get to work as I always do and test it that way? This is really hard work 

I like your idea of doing it on a day off. Give it a sunday and I can very easily do that. Get some sugar free jelly in and I'll be well away 

OR WAIT! I could get a bus on basal test day to work!!! That might work


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## tracey w (Nov 10, 2010)

No, you cant test basal with a tbr, as that is not your basal is it?

It sound like your basal is currently too high on a work day in the morning, this is why you need to eventually set up different  profiles.

My profiles are different on days off to work days, for shifts you may need a different one for each of these. Its not as difficult as it sounds honestly.

If you test on work day, do what you normally would ie walk to work, if you get the bus again this will affect your insulin uptake and is not your normal routine, no point testing if it is not what you would normally do?

Personally if i were you i would do the test on your day off, then when you have the rate right for your day off, then i would set up a different profile for work days, with a lower rate in the mornings to cover your walk to work etc, then test this rate and tweak.


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## SilentAssassin1642 (Nov 10, 2010)

tracey w said:


> No, you cant test basal with a tbr, as that is not your basal is it?
> 
> It sound like your basal is currently too high on a work day in the morning, this is why you need to eventually set up different  profiles.
> 
> ...



oooooh now I see. So for instance, if I do a daytime one this sunday where I just sit around and do bugger all bar a bit of housework or whathaveyou? Makes more sense. I think a couple more days of 3am tests, or 2am and 4am should do the trick at establishing whats going on with my nightimes but fingers crossed these good waking levels continue.

Getting a CGM on tuesday so that should help.

I like your idea, thanks tracey. Day off basal test it is  It's kind of tough to do at work I gotta say

So, what should I do in the meantime? Because I'm running really really high in the afternoons at work, keep with the TBRs and low carb lunch?


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## SilentAssassin1642 (Nov 11, 2010)

update:

a great big fat unhappy face 

3am 6.8
6am 11.0 

 

i blame the pasta bake but still, its a blow. woke on 8.8 due to correcting but urgh


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## shiv (Nov 11, 2010)

It's probably just the pasta Sam! Dodge le pasta tonight and see where you are


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## tracey w (Nov 11, 2010)

I know you think pasta doesnt affect you Sam, but it can make you rise up to 8 hours later, so the 2 hour test will be low as you have found.

I rarely do pasta as i have trouble getting right, but if i did i would do a 6 hour dw at least! Same with pizza.

If you are sure and  i mean sure your lunch ratio is ok, why dont you just up your basal around this time instead of tbr. Its worth a try until you get round to testing these times.  Or just increase your ratio if the rise is say 1-2 hours post lunch? dont do both though.


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## SilentAssassin1642 (Nov 11, 2010)

tracey w said:


> I know you think pasta doesnt affect you Sam, but it can make you rise up to 8 hours later, so the 2 hour test will be low as you have found.
> 
> I rarely do pasta as i have trouble getting right, but if i did i would do a 6 hour dw at least! Same with pizza.
> 
> If you are sure and  i mean sure your lunch ratio is ok, why dont you just up your basal around this time instead of tbr. Its worth a try until you get round to testing these times.  Or just increase your ratio if the rise is say 1-2 hours post lunch? dont do both though.



oh no, I know pasta affects me - just not hugely like with some people. Not having pasta tonight, just chucking something in the oven with some chips - THOSE AMAZING NO CARB SAUSAGES.

I've been hypo most of the day :/ odd. Had a scary one on the way home whilst going around lidl. Very odd. But there we go, I've felt much better today in myself at least, not seen anything above 10 (so far ), and bar the hypos its been a pretty good day.

I need to do a couple more tests onight over the next couple of days but really think I've just about got the onights sorted - took long enough. But alas, it probably won't last :/ 

Tracey, I upped myself to 0.65 around lunchtime and it seems to have worked ok-ish. Spike was from 6.whatever i was pre lunch to 8 two hours after. Awesome. But then I dropped like a stone. Odd.


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## tracey w (Nov 12, 2010)

But thats better than the 20s post lunch right?

How many hours did you up? that may be the cause. I would have just done 1 or 2 hours max.

How much of an increase was it by? I try 0.05 every time no more.


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