# Rice and Porridge on course



## lucy123 (Feb 12, 2011)

Hi - just a quick question:
On my diabetes course this week we were told to eat 50 dried weight of porridge in the morning and 100g of dried rice or pasta. 
On cooking this it seems a large portion, especially for someone trying to lose weight - do you think they have made a mistake?


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## Dizzydi (Feb 12, 2011)

Blimy Lucy that is a lot. I have dried 30g porridge and 50 g rice. I never manage to eat all my rice either x


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## Andy HB (Feb 12, 2011)

lucy123 said:


> Hi - just a quick question:
> On my diabetes course this week we were told to eat 50 dried weight of porridge in the morning and 100g of dried rice or pasta.
> On cooking this it seems a large portion, especially for someone trying to lose weight - do you think they have made a mistake?



For me I use 40g or less of porridge oats.

For a long time I used just three dessert spoons (probably amounts to 30g), but also included a banana.

Now, it's more like 4 dessert spoons (~40g) and I'm using cranberries instead.

100g dried rice? I'd say that was too high. My limit is 50g (and that is usually the stated portion size on the packets that I've seen).

But that's just me. 

Andy


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## lucy123 (Feb 12, 2011)

I might give them a call on Monday - as it does seem a lot - they said definitely 100g rice and said that was = 3oz?? Is that right. They definitely said dry weight too.

I made the 50g dried weight Porridge this morning and it was loads, although I wasn;t hungry afterwards, but I can;t see me losing weight on these amounts - also for diabetics we are always told a SMALL amount of carbs with each meal...grrr


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## Andy HB (Feb 12, 2011)

lucy123 said:


> I might give them a call on Monday - as it does seem a lot - they said definitely 100g rice and said that was = 3oz?? Is that right. They definitely said dry weight too.
> 
> I made the 50g dried weight Porridge this morning and it was loads, although I wasn;t hungry afterwards, but I can;t see me losing weight on these amounts - also for diabetics we are always told a SMALL amount of carbs with each meal...grrr



Yep, 100g = 3.5oz. That's about right.

Still think it's too much though. But best get them to clarify, I suppose.

Andy


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## mcdonagh47 (Feb 12, 2011)

lucy123 said:


> Hi - just a quick question:
> On my diabetes course this week we were told to eat 50 dried weight of porridge in the morning and 100g of dried rice or pasta.
> On cooking this it seems a large portion, especially for someone trying to lose weight - do you think they have made a mistake?



Which course are you on Lucy ?


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## lucy123 (Feb 12, 2011)

The course is Juggle. Its purely for T2 not on insulin.
Normally I would eat half the amount they have suggested.


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## Alan S (Feb 12, 2011)

lucy123 said:


> Hi - just a quick question:
> On my diabetes course this week we were told to eat 50 dried weight of porridge in the morning and 100g of dried rice or pasta.
> On cooking this it seems a large portion, especially for someone trying to lose weight - do you think they have made a mistake?


Whatever portion size you eventually end up choosing to cook, test at your peak (which is probably about an hour) after the meal to see what that portion size did to your blood glucose levels. If the result is a spike, reduce the portion size next time. If that still leads to a spike, keep reducing the portion size in subsequent experiments until it's a bump, not a spike.

Then look at the resulting acceptable portion size. If it's starting to resemble the size and thickness of a postage stamp it may be time to consider leaving that food off your shopping list.


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## lucy123 (Feb 12, 2011)

Thank you Alan - I was thinking of the same experiment. I am having to be careful with cutting carbs at the moment due to hypos but the portions stated do seem high.


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## alisonz (Feb 12, 2011)

I'm a bit confused here Lucy. Is that for every meal?


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## lucy123 (Feb 12, 2011)

alisonz said:


> I'm a bit confused here Lucy. Is that for every meal?



Sorry Alison - not sure what you mean.


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## Alan S (Feb 12, 2011)

lucy123 said:


> Sorry Alison - not sure what you mean.


Possibly Alison was referring to the fact that many of us have quite diffgerent carb tolerances at breakfast, lunch and dinner. What may be a suitable portion size at one time of day may be terrible at another time of day. I'm sure Alison will expand on that.

What meds or insulin regimen are you on that may lead to hypos?


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## lucy123 (Feb 12, 2011)

Ah I see - well thank you for explaining.

The thing is I am not on any diabetes meds but have had awful hypos. I go in hospital for a week next week to get to the bottom of it.


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## mcdonagh47 (Feb 12, 2011)

lucy123 said:


> The course is Juggle. Its purely for T2 not on insulin.
> Normally I would eat half the amount they have suggested.



The course only seems to be running in Nottingham and looks like a sawn-off version of the X-Pert course but X-Pert doesn't come out with stuff like the recommendations you mention.   Key components of X-Pert is low GI and "Carbohydrate Awareness" - seeing 15g of carbs as one Carb Portion and teaching yourself to eyeball that amount and keep a check on carb intake - 8 to 15 CPs per day depending on your frame and level of physical activity and meds.

Have they given you a Course Handbook ? What's the Syllabus like ?


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## mcdonagh47 (Feb 12, 2011)

Alan S said:


> What meds or insulin regimen are you on that may lead to hypos?



Lucy has been suffering irregular hypos not caused by meds and is going to have a 72 hour fasting test done to check for a possible Insulinoma.


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## lucy123 (Feb 12, 2011)

Yes but no mention of carb portion sizes. 1) Learning what diabetes is and why we have it. 2) Food including sugars and carbs and veg, 3) Proteins and Fats, 4) Taking care of yourself.

I have to say the course has been very good and informative - just this bit that is confusing.


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## lucy123 (Feb 12, 2011)

mcdonagh47 said:


> Lucy has been suffering irregular hypos not caused by meds and is going to have a 72 hour fasting test done to check for a possible Insulinoma.


...As well as many other tests. The 72hr test isn;t to check for the insulinoma that will be a cat scan.


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## Andy HB (Feb 12, 2011)

mcdonagh47 said:


> The course only seems to be running in Nottingham and looks like a sawn-off version of the X-Pert course but X-Pert doesn't come out with stuff like the recommendations you mention.   Key components of X-Pert is low GI and "Carbohydrate Awareness" - seeing 15g of carbs as one Carb Portion and teaching yourself to eyeball that amount and keep a check on carb intake - 8 to 15 CPs per day depending on your frame and level of physical activity and meds.



Good point. That's my memory of what X-Pert said too. I thought that it was an excellently balanced course.

Andy 

p.s. Hang on! I thought I was going to bed! What am I still doing up?


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## KateR (Feb 12, 2011)

lucy123 said:


> Hi - just a quick question:
> On my diabetes course this week we were told to eat 50 dried weight of porridge in the morning and 100g of dried rice or pasta.
> On cooking this it seems a large portion, especially for someone trying to lose weight - do you think they have made a mistake?



I only serve up 50g of rice for my family and less for me and 70g of pasta and again less for me. I don't eat porridge as it gives me terrible spikes.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Feb 12, 2011)

Hi Lucy 

I wonder if the (large) portion sizes they mention are linked to the 'recommended adult' levels that you get on nutritional info panels. Carb levels there are often 240g a day for women and 300g a day for men, which would be quite tricky to manage for a diabetic IMO. 

M


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## Alan S (Feb 12, 2011)

lucy123 said:


> Ah I see - well thank you for explaining.
> 
> The thing is I am not on any diabetes meds but have had awful hypos. I go in hospital for a week next week to get to the bottom of it.


What are the numbers and circumstances of those hypos? While you try to remember, please read this: *Grazing*

That may not be the solution to your problems, but it may be worth investigating. Have you ever done some intensive post-meal testing (say, every 20-30 minutes) to see how high you go, how soon you peak and whether you are dropping reactively some hours later?


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## Alan S (Feb 12, 2011)

mcdonagh47 said:


> Lucy has been suffering irregular hypos not caused by meds and is going to have a 72 hour fasting test done to check for a possible Insulinoma.


Thanks - saw this after my post.

PS I'd still be interested in the results of some intensive post-meal testing.


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## lucy123 (Feb 13, 2011)

Hi Alan

I have just read your article and have tried this and have also done thorough testing. The main problem seems to be tied in to the days when I exercise, although not always. The consultant I am now under seems very good and has offered an explanatiion for the cause but I would rather wait until after my appointment before saying - as it could turn out to be somethng totally different. The consultant is confident I will be diagnosed correctly next week though. thank you for your post though - very interesting reads.


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## Lairyfairy (Feb 13, 2011)

Alan S said:


> ....  If the result is a spike, reduce the portion size next time. If that still leads to a spike, keep reducing the portion size in subsequent experiments until it's a bump, not a spike.





Silly question, but how many points above would you call a "spike" and a "bump" ?


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## Jill (Feb 13, 2011)

I was wondering about that too.


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## macast (Feb 13, 2011)

Lairyfairy said:


> Silly question, but how many points above would you call a "spike" and a "bump" ?





Jill said:


> I was wondering about that too.



as I am also newly diagnosed I wondered about this too


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## Northerner (Feb 13, 2011)

lucy123 said:


> Hi - just a quick question:
> On my diabetes course this week we were told to eat 50 dried weight of porridge in the morning and 100g of dried rice or pasta.
> On cooking this it seems a large portion, especially for someone trying to lose weight - do you think they have made a mistake?



100g dry weight of rice is a heckuva lot of rice! I just poured out mine tonight to cover the bottom of the pan as I usually do and then decided to weigh it in light of your question - it was 60g, and I always have quite a large portion so I would probably have trouble eating 100g! Are you sure they didn't mean when cooking for two? 

Also, for me I consider a spike to be 4 or 5 mmol/l above my pre-meal reading, so if I started at 6.0 and rose to 10.0 or 11.0 I'd call that a spike. Ideally you should only rise 2-3 mmol/l at any point after eating, but it can be ludicrously difficult to achieve that, considering all the factors involved and particularly in my case the timing and size of the insulin dose. With a working pancreas, even if it is a weak response, it should be slightly easier to achieve once the 'right' kinds of food for you have been discovered.


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## cazscot (Feb 13, 2011)

I agree with others 100g of dried rice is a heck of a lot.  Not even at my heaviest weight could I have got through that amount with my dinner! xx


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## Alan S (Feb 14, 2011)

Jill said:


> I was wondering about that too.


OK folks 

I can quantify it in two ways; official and personal. I go into detail on the official targets here:

*Blood Glucose Targets*

Note that these are American authorities, I'm not certain of your NHS/NICE guiddelines.

mg/dl:
...................pre-meal......2hr PP.....A1c
ADA ...........90-130....... <180.... ...<7%
Joslin..........90-130.......<160.......<7%
AACE..........<110...........<140......<6.5%

Or, in mmol/L, rounded
...................pre-meal......2hr PP.....A1c
ADA ...........5.0-7.0.......<10.0......<7%
Joslin..........5.0-7.0.......<9.0.......<7%
AACE.............<6...........<8.0......<6.5%

I don't think those have changed since I wrote that, but I'm happy to amend the numbers if someone has later figures.

Personally, I initially followed different guidelines based on Jennifer's *Test, test, test*:

Fasting............................Under 110
One hour after meals.......under 140
Two hours after meals.....under 120

or for those in the mmol parts of the world:

Fasting............................Under 6
One hour after meals......Under 8
Two hours after meals....Under 6.5

After I achieved those I re-set my own personal targets as follows:

Fasting............................Under 100
One hour after meals.......under 120
Two hours after meals.....under 100

or for those in the mmol parts of the world:
Fasting...........................Under 5.5
One hour after meals......Under 6.5
Two hours after meals....Under 5.5

I won't pretend I always achieve those; in fact my DP seems to be getting a little worse lately so my fasting right now is generally over 6 but I  achieve the others most of the time. 

What you choose to aim for is totally up to you and your medical advisors.


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## donnarob (Feb 14, 2011)

Hello, 

What do you mean by a bump or a spike?   I was 7.1 this morning fasting and had a bowl of Greek natural thick yoghurt, and a handful of mixed berries (strawberries, rasps, blueberries) I thought I spiked at 9.1 (this one hour after eating breakfast)  However my levels 2 hrs after breakfast were 6.9.

Was this a bump? 
Donna


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