# Carb free meals to see if background insulin is working.. HELP! !



## Claire91 (Apr 11, 2016)

Hi everyone.

Been having unknown highs for a while and my DSN said about having a carb free diet to see if my background insulin is working and test every two hours. She said to start off with a carb free breakfast.  What do others have for a carb free breakfast apart from eggs because my shifts start at 7 I'm not going to have alot of time to cook something


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## Alan.tnh (Apr 11, 2016)

Eggs are a good start, you could boil them the night before, and have them with some mushroom and tomatoes,


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## Mark Parrott (Apr 11, 2016)

I have full fat greek yoghurt with some frozen berries.  It may not be low enough carb for you though.


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## Carol Robinson (Apr 11, 2016)

Mushroom omelette? Not completely carb free, but filling. The fat in the egg/s might slow down what few carbs are in the mushrooms..


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## SB2015 (Apr 11, 2016)

Hi Claire
I just go without a meal, having split the day up into 6 hour bits, so I don't have wait too long for the next meal.
I also decided that if I was bothering to do the fasting test I might as well test every hour to see what is happening and to help me know when to alter my basal rates (working back two hours for any wobbles).


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## robert@fm (Apr 11, 2016)

A microwave omelette cooks in only a couple of minutes. Bacon also nukes fairly fast (and you don't have to waste money on expensive "microwave" bacon either), but you have to be careful not to overcook it if you don't want it to go crispy.


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## KookyCat (Apr 11, 2016)

I quite often have eggs (soft boiled the night before) and avocado stuffed in a beef tomato, so scoop out the tomato and get rid of the seeds and goo, put chopped egg and avocado in the hollow, sprinkle with a bit cheese if you can stomach it in the morning (I prep it all the night before except the avocado because it goes brown), bit of salt and pepper.  Bung  it in the oven whilst you're in the shower, and ten mins later it's ready to eat and rather delicious!  

The other option is scramblies in the microwave super quick quite filling and I Bob in some pre-fried mushrooms if I'm feeling the mushroom vibe


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## Alan.tnh (Apr 11, 2016)

KookyCat said:


> I quite often have eggs (soft boiled the night before) and avocado stuffed in a beef tomato, so scoop out the tomato and get rid of the seeds and goo, put chopped egg and avocado in the hollow, sprinkle with a bit cheese if you can stomach it in the morning (I prep it all the night before except the avocado because it goes brown), bit of salt and pepper.  Bung  it in the oven whilst you're in the shower, and ten mins later it's ready to eat and rather delicious!
> 
> The other option is scramblies in the microwave super quick quite filling and I Bob in some pre-fried mushrooms if I'm feeling the mushroom vibe


that's just expanded my shopping list, Cheers Kooky


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## trophywench (Apr 11, 2016)

Lump of cheese? - any protein.

Why not do the 'brekkie' one on a non-work day, and do the later ones on work days?


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## Sally71 (Apr 12, 2016)

If you want to properly test your basal insulin then it's best not to eat anything at all, even protein can raise your blood sugar in the absence of carbs.  The only time I ever attempted to do basal testing in the daytime with my daughter, the consultant had given us a list of "permitted" foods. Sugar free jelly, couple of frankfurters, one scrambled egg etc.  Well I thought it was a bit mean to expect a young child to eat nothing at all for several hours so allowed her a few of these things at intervals.  And EVERY time she ate even a tiny amount of something, her blood sugar went up a little!  (Even the sugar free jelly - what on earth is in that that can raise your BG?!). Coincidence?


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## KookyCat (Apr 12, 2016)

Sally71 said:


> If you want to properly test your basal insulin then it's best not to eat anything at all, even protein can raise your blood sugar in the absence of carbs.  The only time I ever attempted to do basal testing in the daytime with my daughter, the consultant had given us a list of "permitted" foods. Sugar free jelly, couple of frankfurters, one scrambled egg etc.  Well I thought it was a bit mean to expect a young child to eat nothing at all for several hours so allowed her a few of these things at intervals.  And EVERY time she ate even a tiny amount of something, her blood sugar went up a little!  (Even the sugar free jelly - what on earth is in that that can raise your BG?!). Coincidence?



Protein in large amount definitely makes my blood sugar go up, quite markedly as is happens, but blood sugar increases just from the act of chewing.  My friend is researching that very phenomena at the moment in the context of bio feedback (he's a a neuropsychologist who specialises in eating disorders). After a chat with him I tried chewing gum, no sugar, no nutritional content at all, and behold my blood sugar went up quite markedly.  It came down again, but it was quite the shocker.  Apparently anticipation of food can increase blood sugar very markedly.  Not helpful for basal testing of course but interesting nonetheless.

Given that I'm MDI I don't fast completely when basal testing, it's nowhere near precise enough in me, so I just go for almost no carb/veggies I wouldn't bolus for and that's fine.  It gives me enough of an idea if it's working.  I have vastly different basal profiles during the course of 24 hours so it's a best fit affair at best.  Incidentally Claire, I'd have a pattern similar to that you're experiencing if I've got too much basal going in, not too little.  Sounds counterintuitive I know but my blood sugar goes crazy if I've got too much basal, nothing works, I get desperate and want to pull out my own pancreas out of sheer frustration, more rapid makes it slightly worse, more basal lots worse.  You probably won't find the same thing since consultant is largely baffled by me, but just thought I'd mention it in case


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## HOBIE (Apr 12, 2016)

Fish with extra fish


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## DeusXM (Apr 12, 2016)

> If you want to properly test your basal insulin then it's best not to eat anything at all, even protein can raise your blood sugar in the absence of carbs.



However....not eating anything at all can cause your liver to start dumping glucose out uncontrollably!



> EVERY time she ate even a tiny amount of something, her blood sugar went up a little! (Even the sugar free jelly - what on earth is in that that can raise your BG?!). Coincidence?



It's a difficult one, because there's also a theory that anything other than water can cause your blood sugar to rise. The theory goes that in an individual without diabetes, both insulin and glucogon are released at the same time. The idea is that in order for the insulin to keep your blood sugar level, it needs to be circulating ASAP which may mean you have plenty of insulin in your blood before your food has started to break down into glucose. So when your body releases insulin, it also releases glucogon so your liver starts dumping a small amount of glucose just in case, preventing the non-D from having a hypo.

The signal for releasing glucogon is stretching of the duodenum. So when we T1s eat something, the duodenum stretches, which causes a glucogon release, which then triggers a liver dump. Because we don't have the advantage of being able to produce our own insulin, the net result is a rise in blood sugar. 

And this is one of the several reasons why basal testing is ruddy hard....


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## everydayupsanddowns (Apr 13, 2016)

SB2015 said:


> Hi Claire
> I just go without a meal, having split the day up into 6 hour bits, so I don't have wait too long for the next meal.
> I also decided that if I was bothering to do the fasting test I might as well test every hour to see what is happening and to help me know when to alter my basal rates (working back two hours for any wobbles).


Yup. This is exactly my approach. There are many times when (for other reasons, unexpected traffic jam or whatever) you have to go without food for 4-5 hours and think little of it. I think we just all get into the habit of being able to have a little something more or less any time, but there are millions of people in the world who can only manage perhaps one meal a day.


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## SB2015 (Apr 13, 2016)

DeusXM said:


> The signal for releasing glucogon is stretching of the duodenum. So when we T1s eat something, the duodenum stretches, which causes a glucogon release, which then triggers a liver dump. Because we don't have the advantage of being able to produce our own insulin, the net result is a rise in blood sugar.



So I think that this would explain why my BG rose when I had a carb free meal.  It wasn't my week to cook and my husband was very proud of his achievement.  I was interested to see what would happen.  I had put down the rise to carrot, which I know some count and others don't.

There are times when this seems so complicated with the number of variables and the body behaving unpredictably that it is a wonder that anybody keeps on target all the time!!


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## Annette (Apr 13, 2016)

DeusXM said:


> The signal for releasing glucogon is stretching of the duodenum. So when we T1s eat something, the duodenum stretches, which causes a glucogon release, which then triggers a liver dump. Because we don't have the advantage of being able to produce our own insulin, the net result is a rise in blood sugar.



Wouldnt that then mean that whenever I ate something, my BG would rise? So that if I had a handful of nuts, my levels would go up? (Which they dont.) Or with my carb free lunches that I often have whilst at work, but my levels dont change? 
Or maybe that bit of my system isnt working properly either...


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## DeusXM (Apr 13, 2016)

Or it may be that the rise isn't very significant, and so your basal keeps a lid on it.



> this seems so complicated with the number of variables and the body behaving unpredictably that it is a wonder that anybody keeps on target all the time!!



Exactly. The one thing I've consistently found with diabetes is every time you think you've understood the relationship between two elements, you suddenly find there's at least another two elements you've never even heard of which prove significant, and one of them usually has an unpronounceable name.


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## KookyCat (Apr 13, 2016)

Ah but protein peaks have a different profile (or is this just me too ?).  For me Protein causes a late but flatter and more sustained rise, so I make pastry with ground almonds (so that's a lot of nuts), it will cause a very moderate increase in blood sugar but usually around the 5/6 hour mark and for approximately two hours before the basal brings it down.  Nut pastry is my key to avoiding the nightime hypo, because it doesn't cause a spike immediately just a nice nudge up when hypo danger zone happens which allows for a dip without entering the danger zone.  So on that basis of I basal test and do a fair whack of protein I know that an increase from that will be much later, and since I portion off into 5 hour slots it works.


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