# Technology - Libre Freestyle Blood Glucose Monitoring  System



## AnnSebastian

Technology -  The Freestyle Libre System uses a Bluetooth sensor attached to your arm to read your BG using levels as often as you like, just by scanning it with a smart phone. Each sensor lasts for two weeks. It’s not for everyone but for some people - like me - it’s a game changer. 

Libre is currently only available on NHS to people with T1 - and even then with strict eligibility criteria. But that could change. 

I’m posting this thread for current and prospective users, carers, professionals and anyone else with an interest, to connect, inform and share experiences.

Ann


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## Aristotle_T

I am T2 and I self fund the libre sensor as it gives me privilege to track my BG at will and invariably boast my confidence in controlling my diabetes. I won’t wait for the NHS to fund the Libre sensor for me. What’s the essence of the money I have that I can’t spend on my health than I died soon.


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## AnnSebastian

Aristotle_T said:


> I am T2 and I self fund the libre sensor as it gives me privilege to track my BG at will and invariably boast my confidence in controlling my diabetes. I won’t wait for the NHS to fund the Libre sensor for me. What’s the essence of the money I have that I can’t spend on my health than I died soon.



I too am self - funding. I started with the ‘free trial’ offer which drew me in. I’m happy to pay in the short term - but I’ll be thinking twice about making it permanent. 

But there are thousands of people out there who could really benefit if it were available on NHS

Again, I don’t think it’s for everyone. Without a smart-phone it’s far less useful. And it requires motivation, and a basic ability to understand how it works - whether it be the person using it - or a person caring for someone else.


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## grovesy

I am a self funder and have been for a few years. As many Type 2 don't get prescribed test strips, and even if they do only get prescribed limited number even when on hypo causing medication. I think we are way off Libre being freely prescribed  for Type 2.


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## AnnSebastian

grovesy said:


> I am a self funder and have been for a few years. As many Type 2 don't get prescribed test strips, and even if they do only get prescribed limited number even when on hypo causing medication. I think we are way off Libre being freely prescribed  for Type 2.


All the more reason to get it ‘out there’ ?


AnnSebastian said:


> Technology -  The Freestyle Libre System uses a Bluetooth sensor attached to your arm to read your BG using levels as often as you like, just by scanning it with a smart phone. Each sensor lasts for two weeks. It’s not for everyone but for some people - like me - it’s a game changer.
> 
> Libre is currently only available on NHS to people with T1 - and even then with strict eligibility criteria. But that could change.
> 
> I’m posting this thread for current and prospective users, carers, professionals and anyone else with an interest, to connect, inform and share experiences.
> 
> Ann



I’m newish to this site. Haven’t found my around completely yet. I’m going to ‘follow’ any account that seems to have someone using the Libre. I’m not quite sure what to click to see if anyone follows me back. But that doesn’t matter too much. 


I’ll ‘consolidate’ later on.


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## Proud to be erratic

Agreed @ grovesy, and its not right. But increasing awareness in as many places as possible can only help. And sometimes promotion from the ground gains friction and swells. How can Civil servants and government ministers ever get to realise the folly of their short-sightedness.


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## Proud to be erratic

Also, @grovesy, there are GPS who clearly don't realise the benefits, nor understand much about diabetes; otherwise why would a GP stop a T3c with no panc'y from having testing strips?


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## everydayupsanddowns

Just to be completely accurate in case any confusion arises...

Libre uses NFC to perform the ‘scan’. 

Libre2 can use Bluetooth to send optional alerts to either smartphone or reader (but not both) if glucose levels hit user defined limits. The alerts prompt the user to scan using NFC, but is still a Flash glucose monitor rather than a traditional full real-time CGM. 

Libre3 has launched in Germany and is more of a full CGM which automatically sends readings via a transmitter I believe.


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## AnnSebastian

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Just to be completely accurate in case any confusion arises...
> 
> Libre uses NFC to perform the ‘scan’.
> 
> Libre2 can use Bluetooth to send optional alerts to either smartphone or reader (but not both) if glucose levels hit user defined limits. The alerts prompt the user to scan using NFC, but is still a Flash glucose monitor rather than a traditional full real-time CGM.
> 
> Libre3 has launched in Germany and is more of a full CGM which automatically sends readings via a transmitter I believe.


 I’d RT if this were Twitter - but it’s not - not sure how to make sure how to  check comments are included in a thread. But I’m sure you do.


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## Inka

*Again, I don’t think it’s for everyone. Without a smart-phone it’s far less useful.*

I’m not sure if I agree with that. The Libre brings many benefits even without a smart-phone. I use the Libre Reader and I don’t feel disadvantaged in any way by that. I don’t have a compatible phone and can’t afford to get a new one at the moment.

I think people like Theresa May drew attention to the Libre by having the sensor visible in public. Certainly as a Type 1, I’ve been following it from inception and asked about it at my clinic. 

I imagine a subset of Type 2s might get it on prescription eg those on insulin.


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## AnnSebastian

Inka said:


> *Again, I don’t think it’s for everyone. Without a smart-phone it’s far less useful.*
> 
> I’m not sure if I agree with that. The Libre brings many benefits even without a smart-phone. I use the Libre Reader and I don’t feel disadvantaged in any way by that. I don’t have a compatible phone and can’t afford to get a new one at the moment.
> 
> I think people like Theresa May drew attention to the Libre by having the sensor visible in public. Certainly as a Type 1, I’ve been following it from inception and asked about it at my clinic.
> 
> I imagine a subset of Type 2s might get it on prescription eg those on insulin.


No offence intended. I started with a free trial and the IOS app. From my perspective that makes the investment viable to me as I’m paying for it myself.

As far as I know nobody with T2 has Freestyle funded by NHS. So far.


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## Robin

AnnSebastian said:


> I’m posting this thread for current and prospective users, carers, professionals and anyone else with an interest, to connect, inform and share experiences


I’m wondering where people start looking, when they want basic information about anything. The forum, in my experience anyway,  tends to be where people come either to ask a specific query, or because they are just starting out and want to be pointed in the right direction for information that is already available in other places. Perhaps a link to he Diabetes U.K. website information on Flash Glucose monitoring might be useful here.





						Flash glucose monitors (Freestyle Libre) and continuous glucose monitors (CGM)
					

How does a flash glucose monitor and CGM work? Flash glucose monitors and continuous glucose monitors let you check your blood sugar levels without you having to prick your fingers. You wear a small sensor on your body day and night that reads your blood sugar levels so you can see the...




					www.diabetes.org.uk


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## Inka

I can’t remember where I first heard about the Libre. It could well have been the Diabetes U.K. Balance magazine. I then did my own research through Google and this site. I find the Search facility here very useful as I can look for specific things rather than just plough through threads eg I was concerned about getting a reaction to the Libre adhesive so searched through for that.

Here’s a link to a more general search for anyone who simply wants to read through threads to get an idea about the Libre:

https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/search/92578/?q=Libre&o=date

You can then focus your search by looking for additional words.


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## helli

Robin said:


> I’m wondering where people start looking, when they want basic information about anything.


This thread also seems to be missing a link to the official Libre website which includes videos and access to the free trial. 





						FreeStyle Libre 2 | Glucose Monitoring System - Diabetes Care
					

Discover the FreeStyle Libre 2 flash glucose monitoring system. Advanced and easy to use, it offers an innovative approach to diabetes management.



					www.freestylelibre.co.uk
				




Maybe someone can post a link to the latest NICE recommendations for England and the equivalent for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. 

Given there are so many official resources about the Libre, in my opinion, the value of a thread like this  is anything unofficial such as
- limitations to the Libre (and other CGMs) 
- add ons to the LIbre including alternative phone apps such as Diabox and xDrip, extra transmitters such as Bubble and MiaoMiao, and elasticated arm bands for people who find they have "less sticky skin"


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## AnnSebastian

helli said:


> This thread also seems to be missing a link to the official Libre website which includes videos and access to the free trial.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FreeStyle Libre 2 | Glucose Monitoring System - Diabetes Care
> 
> 
> Discover the FreeStyle Libre 2 flash glucose monitoring system. Advanced and easy to use, it offers an innovative approach to diabetes management.
> 
> 
> 
> www.freestylelibre.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe someone can post a link to the latest NICE recommendations for England and the equivalent for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
> 
> Given there are so many official resources about the Libre, in my opinion, the value of a thread like this  is anything unofficial such as
> - limitations to the Libre (and other CGMs)
> - add ons to the LIbre including alternative phone apps such as Diabox and xDrip, extra transmitters such as Bubble and MiaoMiao, and elasticated arm bands for people who find they have "less sticky skin"



That would be great. I was hoping that other people would post any useful information into the thread. And I didn’t want to seem to be promoting it too forcefully myself. 
( I didn’t want it to just be about me)


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## everydayupsanddowns

Another link people might find helpful when getting started with Libre (or other sensors) is the Diabetes Technology Network video education series I was asked to contribute to. It’s designed for T1s, but much of it would apply universally or could be adapted. If there's anything about making sense of Libre data you are finding difficult, these are pretty helpful I think.






						DTN-UK Education: Flash Glucose Monitoring | ABCD (Diabetes Care) Ltd
					






					abcd.care


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## Bruce Stephens

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Libre3 has launched in Germany and is more of a full CGM which automatically sends readings via a transmitter I believe.


It's a full CGM, but I've not read anything suggesting it'll use a transmitter. (I'd guess it'll require a compatible smartphone.)


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## helli

Bruce Stephens said:


> It's a full CGM, but I've not read anything suggesting it'll use a transmitter. (I'd guess it'll require a compatible smartphone.)


My understanding is that it is a full CGM but, as you suggest, I believe the Reader will be "discontinued" in that there will be no Libre 3 reader.


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## AnnSebastian

helli said:


> My understanding is that it is a full CGM but, as you suggest, I believe the Reader will be "discontinued" in that there will be no Libre 3 reader.



“CGM” ?


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## Bruce Stephens

AnnSebastian said:


> “CGM” ?


Continuous Glucose Monitor. Sometimes now split into two categories, rtCGM and isCGM, with Dexcom and the like being rtCGM (they supply the data frequently, in real time, to a phone or other device) and Libre 1 and Libre 2 (and Eversense) being isCGM (you get data by intermittently scanning).


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## AnnSebastian

AnnSebastian said:


> Technology -  The Freestyle Libre System uses a Bluetooth sensor attached to your arm to read your BG using levels as often as you like, just by scanning it with a smart phone. Each sensor lasts for two weeks. It’s not for everyone but for some people - like me - it’s a game changer.
> 
> Libre is currently only available on NHS to people with T1 - and even then with strict eligibility criteria. But that could change.
> 
> I’m posting this thread for current and prospective users, carers, professionals and anyone else with an interest, to connect, inform and share experiences.
> 
> Ann



I started with the free trial - I knew nothing about previous devices so didn’t need to overthink it - just stick it on - take as many readings as you like using either the smartphone app or the reader.
Apart from that it’s just a glucose monitor but one that doesn’t require sticking lances in yourself.  
If you use the app and keep Bluetooth switched on - it sends updates to the app and if you switch the alarm on - it sets off an alarm on the phone if you cross the lower or higher limit. But you can choose the settings - or switch off the alarm if you need a break.


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## Proud to be erratic

helli said:


> My understanding is that it is a full CGM but, as you suggest, I believe the Reader will be "discontinued" in that there will be no Libre 3 reader.


That is also my understanding, either from this site or Facebook. I think discontinuing the reader is a misjudgement. 

Not everyone will necessarily have a compatible smart phone; some people find it difficult to have their phone prominent at their workplace for various reasons. And in a hurry the reader wins every time: no "waiting, waiting" while it scans; no hit or miss if you've not got the NFC bit of the phone in exactly the right place.


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## AnnSebastian

AnnSebastian said:


> I started with the free trial - I knew nothing about previous devices so didn’t need to overthink it - just stick it on - take as many readings as you like using either the smartphone app or the reader.
> Apart from that it’s just a glucose monitor but one that doesn’t require sticking lances in yourself.
> If you use the app and keep Bluetooth switched on - it sends updates to the app and if you switch the alarm on - it sets off an alarm on the phone if you cross the lower or higher limit. But you can choose the settings - or switch off the alarm if you need a break.



You don’t need an expensive phone just a ‘smartphone’ that has Bluetooth. And check it’s compatible with the Libre app.


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## AnnSebastian

Or even download the app and play around with it. You can download it on iOS without buying a sensor. 
It’s not perfect but I’d give it more than a 3. Sure there’s an android version too.


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## helli

Bruce Stephens said:


> Continuous Glucose Monitor. Sometimes now split into two categories, rtCGM and isCGM, with Dexcom and the like being rtCGM (they supply the data frequently, in real time, to a phone or other device) and Libre 1 and Libre 2 (and Eversense) being isCGM (you get data by intermittently scanning).


Sometimes LIbre is referred to as a "Flash Glucose Monitor" or FGM. 
CGM allows you to have the readings on your phone/reader as you glance at them without the need to scan. 
The alarms on Libre 2 help this as the most important part is getting an alarm when you go high or low but it is more useful to get the numbers as well as the alarm.


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## Proud to be erratic

AnnSebastian said:


> I started with the free trial - I knew nothing about previous devices so didn’t need to overthink it - just stick it on - take as many readings as you like using either the smartphone app or the reader.
> Apart from that it’s just a glucose monitor but one that doesn’t require sticking lances in yourself.
> If you use the app and keep Bluetooth switched on - it sends updates to the app and if you switch the alarm on - it sets off an alarm on the phone if you cross the lower or higher limit. But you can choose the settings - or switch off the alarm if you need a break.


Ann, not sure if you're aware that Libre _provide an app and a website, the app you have to download and install for yourself, _either from Apple store or Google Play store.  *Note*: _edited to corrct prev post_

The _prominent app is_ LibreLink that sits directly on your phone and is collating the information from your scans. This uses Bluetooth (sometimes abbreviated to BT) to set off the alarms; the scans send the data, up to 8 hrs worth and is how it knows what's been happening while you are sleeping. 

The other _website is_ LibreView. This is best used on a PC with a large screen; and the smaller the screen the less use it is. I can log on with my 10" android tablet and its workable, but fiddly. Those of us who get Libre from the NHS are required to set up a LibreView account and allow our designated Specialist to have access and thus see how we are doing. LibreView is free and I presume you can install it since you have Libre 2; I don't recall needing someone to give me an access ticket. Each time you scan your Libre on a phone, that data is automatically transferred by wi-fi to the cloud and onto your LibreView account. If you only have a reader then you have to make a cable connection to use a PC or laptop's connectivity to wi-fi.

Knowing how much you've been scanning lately, you might find it interesting to set up a LibreView account for your own interest; the data is processed in a multitude of ways [lies, damned lies and statistics] far more than those from LibreLink on your phone and if you have a Specialist who would benefit from seeing your data, ask them for their unique access code which would enable you to give them access. Could help in a future business case for why you should have Libre 2 ... ?


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## Bruce Stephens

Proud to be erratic said:


> The other app is LibreView.


That's a web site, not (yet, anyway) an app. Specifically, it's https://www.libreview.com/


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## AnnSebastian

Proud to be erratic said:


> Ann, not sure if you're aware that Libre _provide an app and a website, the app you have to download and install for yourself, _either from Apple store or Google Play store.  *Note*: _edited to corrct prev post_
> 
> The _prominent app is_ LibreLink that sits directly on your phone and is collating the information from your scans. This uses Bluetooth (sometimes abbreviated to BT) to set off the alarms; the scans send the data, up to 8 hrs worth and is how it knows what's been happening while you are sleeping.
> 
> The other _website is_ LibreView. This is best used on a PC with a large screen; and the smaller the screen the less use it is. I can log on with my 10" android tablet and its workable, but fiddly. Those of us who get Libre from the NHS are required to set up a LibreView account and allow our designated Specialist to have access and thus see how we are doing. LibreView is free and I presume you can install it since you have Libre 2; I don't recall needing someone to give me an access ticket. Each time you scan your Libre on a phone, that data is automatically transferred by wi-fi to the cloud and onto your LibreView account. If you only have a reader then you have to make a cable connection to use a PC or laptop's connectivity to wi-fi.
> 
> Knowing how much you've been scanning lately, you might find it interesting to set up a LibreView account for your own interest; the data is processed in a multitude of ways [lies, damned lies and statistics] far more than those from LibreLink on your phone and if you have a Specialist who would benefit from seeing your data, ask them for their unique access code which would enable you to give them access. Could help in a future business case for why you should have Libre 2 ... ?


I’ve been using the app but I’ll check out the website. Too. I don’t have a ‘specialist’ just 3 monthly appointments with a nurse which lapsed last year. But I’ve made one for this week


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## Bruce Stephens

AnnSebastian said:


> I’ve been using the app but I’ll check out the website.


As mentioned, you need to create an account. Then put in the account details into the app (so it can send the data). It is worth doing, I think. You can print out nice PDFs showing the various graphs also available in the app, but also the Ambulatory Glucose Profile (which isn't available in the app, and which is a nice summary). (Though some things may not be available until you have 90 days of readings.)


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## Inka

AnnSebastian said:


> You don’t need an expensive phone just a ‘smartphone’ that has Bluetooth. And check it’s compatible with the Libre app.



That’s the thing - my phone has bluetooth and it’s how I control my insulin pump, but it’s not compatible with the Libre app (nor Dexcom). I simply can’t afford a new phone. I agree with @Bruce Stephens that ditching the Reader is a bad idea. 

TBH, I’m happy with the Reader. It has the alarms and it works well.


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## Kaylz

AnnSebastian said:


> You don’t need an expensive phone just a ‘smartphone’ that has Bluetooth. And check it’s compatible with the Libre app.


That is incorrect, you need a phone that has NFC, BT is only for the alarms, NFC is needed for the manual scanning of a Libre sensor


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## grovesy

The


Inka said:


> That’s the thing - my phone has bluetooth and it’s how I control my insulin pump, but it’s not compatible with the Libre app (nor Dexcom). I simply can’t afford a new phone. I agree with @Bruce Stephens that ditching the Reader is a bad idea.
> 
> TBH, I’m happy with the Reader. It has the alarms and it works well.


I use both.


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## everydayupsanddowns

helli said:


> Sometimes LIbre is referred to as a "Flash Glucose Monitor" or [...]



Yes and it really never should be 

That acronym has a different and extremely unpleasant 'usual' meaning.

I always ask it to be changed on the forum to 'Flash GM'.


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## Kaylz

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Yes and it really never should be
> 
> That acronym has a different and extremely unpleasant 'usual' meaning.
> 
> I always ask it to be changed on the forum to 'Flash GM'.


That's one thing I don't see is a problem

Abbott themselves and health professionals refer to it as that, we are on a diabetes forum where most know what it stands for, if folk don't then it's usually also mentioned in the thread what it is/does, there are far more triggering things posted on the forum and it used to be allowed so I don't really see the issue


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## Leadinglights

Kaylz said:


> That's one thing I don't see is a problem
> 
> Abbott themselves and health professionals refer to it as that, we are on a diabetes forum where most know what it stands for, if folk don't then it's usually also mentioned in the thread what it is/does, there are far more triggering things posted on the forum and it used to be allowed so I don't really see the issue


If people put the initials into a search engine it may come up with all sorts of unpleasant results.
I fell foul of putting the word Pierce when I was looking for a company called that and was totally shocked with what came up, it was a good job I was not in public.


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## Lucyr

Kaylz said:


> That's one thing I don't see is a problem
> 
> Abbott themselves and health professionals refer to it as that, we are on a diabetes forum where most know what it stands for, if folk don't then it's usually also mentioned in the thread what it is/does, there are far more triggering things posted on the forum and it used to be allowed so I don't really see the issue


People that are new to diabetes though and google for more information on libre might just copy the intitials into Google and not get what they are looking for. 

If you type Flash GM into google the first link is freestyle libre and the second is more info from diabetes uk. If you just type in the three initials you get a description of the other meaning and a helpline. Which of those is more helpful for people wanting info on libre…


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## Kaylz

As I said it used to be allowed and I was told it was no longer because it could be triggering from a mod, there are plenty of potentially triggering things posted on the forum on an almost daily basis so that reason being given is just silly but some just like to pick at people regardless so....


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## everydayupsanddowns

Sorry @Kaylz Hope you dont feel ‘got at’ 

I tell Abbott folks off any time I hear them using it - and HCPs _really_ should know better IMO!

But yes, not everyone is a sensitive flower like me, and it’s really not all that important in the grand scheme of things.

Plus I am well aware that acronyms, by their very nature usually have multiple meanings. As far as I was concerned in my early career PMT was photo-mechanical transfer.

Hope you aren't upset.


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## Lucyr

I think it’s me that caused the upset not you! I’m having a day of that…


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## everydayupsanddowns

Lucyr said:


> I think it’s me that caused the upset not you! I’m having a day of that…



Nope definitely me!


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## Bruce Stephens

Kaylz said:


> That's one thing I don't see is a problem
> 
> Abbott themselves and health professionals refer to it as that, we are on a diabetes forum where most know what it stands for, if folk don't then it's usually also mentioned in the thread what it is/does, there are far more triggering things posted on the forum and it used to be allowed so I don't really see the issue


I doubt there's much of a problem really, but I think I prefer rtCGM and isCGM. It nicely emphasises that isCGM is really something that's pretty close to rtCGM, not just a way to avoid "painful" finger prick tests.


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## Lucyr

Bruce Stephens said:


> I doubt there's much of a problem really, but I think I prefer rtCGM and isCGM. It nicely emphasises that isCGM is really something that's pretty close to rtCGM, not just a way to avoid "painful" finger prick tests.


rtCGM = real time continuous glucose monitoring?

What’s isCGM? Intermittent scanning?


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## everydayupsanddowns

Bruce Stephens said:


> Continuous Glucose Monitor. Sometimes now split into two categories, rtCGM and isCGM, with Dexcom and the like being rtCGM (they supply the data frequently, in real time, to a phone or other device) and Libre 1 and Libre 2 (and Eversense) being isCGM (you get data by *intermittently scanning*).



Looks like it!


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## Bruce Stephens

Lucyr said:


> rtCGM = real time continuous glucose monitoring?
> 
> What’s isCGM? Intermittent scanning?


Yes. (It's "intermittently scanned" in draft guidance, "commonly referred to as `flash'".)


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## trophywench

Kaylz - it isn't just you, he's told me off too.   Very very sad that he feels like that - I had to damn well look it up to understand what he was moaning about !  Which I did not enjoy by the way - especially that my persona might be connected with the other meaning.  Yes - of course I'd heard of it but good God, we are on a UK diabetes forum here and writing things for PWD to read and hopefully help themselves.


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## AnnSebastian

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Looks like it!


How about posting a ‘glossary’ of all the relevant acronyms?


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## AnnSebastian

AnnSebastian said:


> That would be great. I was hoping that other people would post any useful information into the thread. And I didn’t want to seem to be promoting it too forcefully myself.
> ( I didn’t want it to just be about me)



Again - this thread wasn’t intended just for me, or to unequivocally promote Libre Freestyle - just to share my own positive experience and perhaps to be a ‘critical friend’?   I found it via ads for a ‘free two week trial’ and took it from there. I hope anyone who has useful feedback or questions will post to this thread.


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## AnnSebastian

Inka said:


> That’s the thing - my phone has bluetooth and it’s how I control my insulin pump, but it’s not compatible with the Libre app (nor Dexcom). I simply can’t afford a new phone. I agree with @Bruce Stephens that ditching the Reader is a bad idea.
> 
> TBH, I’m happy with the Reader. It has the alarms and it works well.



I see what you mean. 
I didn’t intend to be patronising - I just got a little carried away with the newly discovered technology. (New to me anyway)

Someone here said there is an app you can use on a PC. I’ve only used the iOS app so far. 

There are also a few other options to buy smartphones for less than the cost of the latest model or to commit to a ‘payment plan’.


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## AnnSebastian

Kaylz said:


> That is incorrect, you need a phone that has NFC, BT is only for the alarms, NFC is needed for the manual scanning of a Libre sensor



I have no idea what that means. 

I received the ‘free trial’ sensor. Downloaded the app, followed the instructions. scanned the sensor and off I went. The only issues I have had have been with Libre technology and contacting customer services - but that’s down to the company rather than the phone. 

I have an iPhone SE - the model apple brought out as an affordable alternative to their relentless and highly priced updates. So far it works for me. If you know where to look you can find refurbished / second hand phones - but you do need to be careful who you buy from.


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## helli

AnnSebastian said:


> I have no idea what that means.
> 
> I received the ‘free trial’ sensor. Downloaded the app, followed the instructions. scanned the sensor and off I went. The only issues I have had have been with Libre technology and contacting customer services - but that’s down to the company rather than the phone.


NFC is Near Field Communication - it is what you use to scan the Libre Sensor, Bluetooth is only used for the alert.
I believe iPhones use it for ApplePay but there are quite a few "budget" and older smartphones that do not have NFC.

As the Libre 3 is a "true CGM" (is that a rtCGM?), it may not need the NFC.


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## Bruce Stephens

helli said:


> As the Libre 3 is a "true CGM" (is that a rtCGM?), it may not need the NFC.


My guess is it'll require NFC at least for initialisation (to pair the device that you then use with Bluetooth). (I'd also guess that it'll continue to allow scanning using NFC, but I'm less confident about that.)


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## helli

Bruce Stephens said:


> My guess is it'll require NFC at least for initialisation (to pair the device that you then use with Bluetooth). (I'd also guess that it'll continue to allow scanning using NFC, but I'm less confident about that.)


Why? I pair my headphones, speaker, car and insulin pump with my phones using Bluetooth pairing. My expectation is that Libre 3 could use the same mechanism.

Dexcom does not require NFC. 
As LIbre 3 is smaller than the Libre 1 and 2, they must be removing some parts such as the NFC "transmitter.

Sorry, I am just speculating and should wait until I get one to "play" with.


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## AnnSebastian

I’m sure you’re absolutely right.
But I’m doing my best to ‘share’ with everyone - whether they know IT jargon or not. I’m pretty IT literate - except I have very little patience when something doesn’t work the first time.

Bottom line is - the most effective way to disseminate information is to assume you are explaining a concept to an intelligent person, but one who has no prior knowledge of the subject. 

Maybe a ‘signposted’ ‘Diabetes UK’ glossary of basic concepts and anagrams could go some way to making information accessible to everyone?


----------



## Kaylz

It isn't IT jargon, you stated that all you needed was a phone with bluetooth which is an incorrect statement as the bluetooth is only used to receive alarms, you MUST have a phone with NFC otherwise the Libre sensors are useless so going with your comment some might have wasted their money so better people don't do that and are made aware the phone must have NFC


----------



## Robin

AnnSebastian said:


> Maybe a ‘signposted’ ‘Diabetes UK’ glossary of basic concepts and anagrams could go some way to making information accessible to everyone?


There’s a list of commonly used acronyms in the 'Getting started section' here.








						Abbreviations & Acronyms
					

A guide to some of the diabetes abbreviations and acronyms that you may find being used throughout this forum, as gathered and collected by members. :)  Diabetes Acronyms  A1c - Shortened version of HbA1c. An average blood glucose level from approximately the last three months. Different...




					forum.diabetes.org.uk
				



That whole section is a good place for newcomers to start.


----------



## trophywench

Robin said:


> There’s a list of commonly used acronyms in the 'Getting started section' here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbreviations & Acronyms
> 
> 
> A guide to some of the diabetes abbreviations and acronyms that you may find being used throughout this forum, as gathered and collected by members. :)  Diabetes Acronyms  A1c - Shortened version of HbA1c. An average blood glucose level from approximately the last three months. Different...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forum.diabetes.org.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That whole section is a good place for newcomers to start.


So -  Is it really not obvious when you access the forum?  It is when I go on the homepage by clicking 'Forums' in the top menu - it's the first thing.  Welcome and getting started - how to use the forum and technical support.  More than a hint the section could be useful I'd have thought, but clearly not.


----------



## grovesy

AnnSebastian said:


> I see what you mean.
> I didn’t intend to be patronising - I just got a little carried away with the newly discovered technology. (New to me anyway)
> 
> Someone here said there is an app you can use on a PC. I’ve only used the iOS app so far.
> 
> There are also a few other options to buy smartphones for less than the cost of the latest model or to commit to a ‘payment plan’.


It is not an app on the PC it is a programme linked to Abbott.


----------



## helli

@AnnSebastian I am loving your enthusiasm for sharing. 
I wonder if you have found the Search at the top right of all pages. I often use this to find previous threads on a topic such as the Glossary you suggested (and @Robin kindly posted a link).

It can be frustrating when you feel as if you come into a conversation half way through and everyone else seems to know what they are talking about but you think they are speaking another language. I guess that is the nature of the forum - I see it more of a library of discussions with a few reference items sprinkled through them rather than a large diabetes reference document which is why you often see the same things repeated in multiple conversations/threads. Just like all good chats with friends


----------



## AnnSebastian

Kaylz said:


> It isn't IT jargon, you stated that all you needed was a phone with bluetooth which is an incorrect statement as the bluetooth is only used to receive alarms, you MUST have a phone with NFC otherwise the Libre sensors are useless so going with your comment some might have wasted their money so better people don't do that and are made aware the phone must have NFC



Whatever. I thought that ‘check that the Libre app is compatible with your phone’ or words to that effect that kind of covered that, was enough? 

If I didn’t already have it set up - without a need to overthink it - then reading unintelligible anagrams would certainly put me off checking it out in the first place.


----------



## AnnSebastian

helli said:


> @AnnSebastian I am loving your enthusiasm for sharing.
> I wonder if you have found the Search at the top right of all pages. I often use this to find previous threads on a topic such as the Glossary you suggested (and @Robin kindly posted a link).
> 
> It can be frustrating when you feel as if you come into a conversation half way through and everyone else seems to know what they are talking about but you think they are speaking another language. I guess that is the nature of the forum - I see it more of a library of discussions with a few reference items sprinkled through them rather than a large diabetes reference document which is why you often see the same things repeated in multiple conversations/threads. Just like all good chats with friends


----------



## AnnSebastian

‘Loving my enthusiasm’ 
It’s not that I couldn’t google the ‘anagrams’ or that I don’t know what some of them stand for already, more that jargon is often used to exclude people. Maybe this site is a little too conservative for me?


----------



## JDNK

Inka said:


> I can’t remember where I first heard about the Libre. It could well have been the Diabetes U.K. Balance magazine. I then did my own research through Google and this site. I find the Search facility here very useful as I can look for specific things rather than just plough through threads eg I was concerned about getting a reaction to the Libre adhesive so searched through for that.
> 
> Here’s a link to a more general search for anyone who simply wants to read through threads to get an idea about the Libre:
> 
> https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/search/92578/?q=Libre&o=date
> 
> You can then focus your search by looking for additional words.


HI Inka, when I started using Libre I had to stop due to a severe skin reaction to the adhesive. Luckily my nurse advised that I use a barrier spray (Cavilon) which has completely solved the problem. I've been using this for over 2 years now without issue. No guarantee but I hope this helps.


----------



## Bruce Stephens

helli said:


> Why? I pair my headphones, speaker, car and insulin pump with my phones using Bluetooth pairing. My expectation is that Libre 3 could use the same mechanism.


I'm guessing each of those has at least a button that can be pressed, and they all have way more power available to broadcast their Bluetooth advertisement.


helli said:


> Dexcom does not require NFC.


I imagine the transmitter has at least a button on it (or maybe it triggers on being clipped to the sensor?). But anyway, it'll also have more power available.


helli said:


> Sorry, I am just speculating and should wait until I get one to "play" with.


Yes, I'm also guessing.


----------



## Bruce Stephens

AnnSebastian said:


> It’s not that I couldn’t google the ‘anagrams’ or that I don’t know what some of them stand for already, more that jargon is often used to exclude people.


Nothing wrong with asking. (But that's another reason for liking rtCGM and isCGM: they're nice and easy to google, whereas CGM is a bit short.)


----------



## helli

Bruce Stephens said:


> I'm guessing each of those has at least a button that can be pressed, and they all have way more power available to broadcast their Bluetooth advertisement.
> 
> I imagine the transmitter has at least a button on it (or maybe it triggers on being clipped to the sensor?). But anyway, it'll also have more power available.
> 
> Yes, I'm also guessing.


Nope - my pump has no button and nor does Dexcom. 
Like Libre, both have a serial number which they use.


----------



## helli

Benny G said:


> @helli, does the dexcom use data backfill to reclaim data after a lost connection?
> I have to admit that the NFC scan to reclaim 8 hours of data on the Libre is a very useful feature, I would prefer to keep that feature moving forward. Also the NFC scan helps to reconnect a lost bluetooth connection.


Sorry, I only had a short Dexcom trial and do not know remember about backfill ... if I did know. 
I guess it depends whether it has any "on chip" memory. 

It will be interesting to know what happens with the Libre 3 and what they have removed to make it smaller.  The 8 hours of memory could be one thing omitted.


----------



## Robin

helli said:


> It will be interesting to know what happens with the Libre 3 and what they have removed to make it smaller.  The 8 hours of memory could be one thing omitted.


I hope not, if it’s reliant on transmitting to a phone and not a reader, for all the times when you have to leave your phone out of reach. Eg, Sports competition/training, Engineering/ technology company development area? You’d need some sort of memory on board the sensor to be able to catch up with the data afterwards. Especially the sports related ones where you want to monitor your glucose performance during the activity.


----------



## Bruce Stephens

Robin said:


> I hope not, if it’s reliant on transmitting to a phone and not a reader, for all the times when you have to leave your phone out of reach.


I'd guess the electronics is basically the same as the Libre 2, and the extra space is whatever's in the plastic disc. (Just plastic with the size just to make sure there's enough adhesive area or something?)


----------



## Dave W

There is a Facebook group for UK users of the Libre.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/ukusersfreestylelibre


----------



## Inka

JDNK said:


> HI Inka, when I started using Libre I had to stop due to a severe skin reaction to the adhesive. Luckily my nurse advised that I use a barrier spray (Cavilon) which has completely solved the problem. I've been using this for over 2 years now without issue. No guarantee but I hope this helps.



Thank you @JDNK and welcome to this site


----------



## everydayupsanddowns

Benny G said:


> @helli, does the dexcom use data backfill to reclaim data after a lost connection?



In my experience, yes, but I don’t know exactly how long is filled, or where the data are stored. 

My G6 sensors occasionally lose connection, for up to a few hours, but the trace is ‘filled in’ when connection is re-established. 

Other times where there is a longer outage (eg I forget to restart dexcom app on my phone after my battery died) there will be a degree of backfill, but not necessarily the whole slot. 

I’d say it’s 2-3 hours? But certainly not 8.


----------



## mark king

I find if I add Diabetes to any acronym search on here I always get Diabetic info. eg. search:>>>  cgm diabetes.

Some thing I'm presently getting into is the Omnipod 5 See >>> https://www.healthline.com/diabetesmine/omnipod-5-tubeless-system.
So far it has been cleared for use in the USA but heading here shortly.


----------



## travellor

Does the Libre 2 sample regularly, then store the results until it's downloaded to the app?
How many samples can it store in one run?


----------



## Proud to be erratic

Bruce Stephens said:


> My guess is it'll require NFC at least for initialisation (to pair the device that you then use with Bluetooth). (I'd also guess that it'll continue to allow scanning using NFC, but I'm less confident about that.)


That would also be my guess for initialisation, ie using NFC. I think the continuing updates will be from Bluetooth but might actually be Bluetooth Low Emission (another acronym for @AnnSebastian) (= BLE), which effectively minimises battery usage. I think NFC continuous scanning won't work; the phone would need to be very close to the sensor at all times - unless there have been significant changes in NFC capability in recent months.

On Diabox BLE allows the phone to be several metres from the sensor.


----------



## helli

travellor said:


> Does the Libre 2 sample regularly, then store the results until it's downloaded to the app?
> How many samples can it store in one run?


The Libre 2 stores 8 hours of data on the sensor. All 8 hours are downloaded when you scan.


----------



## Kaylz

trophywench said:


> Kaylz - it isn't just you, he's told me off too.   Very very sad that he feels like that - I had to damn well look it up to understand what he was moaning about !  Which I did not enjoy by the way - especially that my persona might be connected with the other meaning.  Yes - of course I'd heard of it but good God, we are on a UK diabetes forum here and writing things for PWD to read and hopefully help themselves.


Sorry TW I only just saw your response, yeah I remember seeing you use the term and I quoted it saying "your brave" or something along those lines for the reason I'd already "been told" I too had to look up what the **** it could mean as like you say we're on a diabetes forum, this place is no longer what it once that's for sure! xx


----------



## Kaylz

Just seen on the UK Libre Facebook group that someone is getting a trial of :3 within the next few days xx


----------



## helli

Kaylz said:


> Just seen on the UK Libre Facebook group that someone is getting a trial of :3 within the next few days xx


That will be interesting. 
I see the app is already available on the Android PlayStore. 
I don't know about Apple.


----------



## Kaylz

helli said:


> That will be interesting.
> I see the app is already available on the Android PlayStore.
> I don't know about Apple.


I've turned notifications on for the post as will be intrigued to see how it goes for them xx


----------



## Bruce Stephens

Proud to be erratic said:


> I think the continuing updates will be from Bluetooth but might actually be Bluetooth Low Emission


I'm fairly sure I remember that mentioned in the context of Libre 2 too.


----------



## Bruce Stephens

helli said:


> The Libre 2 stores 8 hours of data on the sensor. All 8 hours are downloaded when you scan.


Which is 4 readings per hour (with something more for the immediate past to give the arrows), so not as gigantic a download as one might expect. I think rtCGMs have higher resolution than that, and likely Libre 3 will too (and likely Libre 2 is similarly sending data more often even though the app and readers won't show it except as alarms), though I'm guessing it'll have the same memory (so if your phone disconnects then if the data is backfilled you'll get 4 readings an hour for 8 hours).


----------



## Proud to be erratic

Bruce Stephens said:


> Which is 4 readings per hour (with something more for the immediate past to give the arrows), so not as gigantic a download as one might expect. I think rtCGMs have higher resolution than that, and likely Libre 3 will too (and likely Libre 2 is similarly sending data more often even though the app and readers won't show it except as alarms), though I'm guessing it'll have the same memory (so if your phone disconnects then if the data is backfilled you'll get 4 readings an hour for 8 hours).


I feel sure that Libre 2 is taking readings more frequently than 4 per hour, but maybe only downloading 4 per hour to the app. Thinking about it it has to be pretty frequent, at least every 5 mins and possible every min, otherwise how will the alarms have any credibility?
Because Diabox piggy-backs on Libre and can provide CGM every minute (normally every 5 mins) the raw data minute be minute must be there. Have I misunderstood your comment?


----------



## AnnSebastian

Inka said:


> That’s the thing - my phone has bluetooth and it’s how I control my insulin pump, but it’s not compatible with the Libre app (nor Dexcom). I simply can’t afford a new phone. I agree with @Bruce Stephens that ditching the Reader is a bad idea.
> 
> TBH, I’m happy with the Reader. It has the alarms and it works well.



Good point. If Libre hope to make their sensor available on the NHS to as many people as possible they need to factor in costs of a compatible phone - which might be a barrier for quite a few people. I think you’re right - I use an iphone - but there are a lot of others who either can’t afford one - or choose not to use one. They should keep the option of a ‘reader’


trophywench said:


> So -  Is it really not obvious when you access the forum?  It is when I go on the homepage by clicking 'Forums' in the top menu - it's the first thing.  Welcome and getting started - how to use the forum and technical support.  More than a hint the section could be useful I'd have thought, but clearly not.



I tend to just dip into something new. I go back to the instructions when I start to struggle. But that’s just me. 

Looking at it from the perspective of ‘newbies’ and/ or people who may not use the internet enough to know how to follow the rules. 

Also, I’m using a phone with a small screen not a desktop or laptop.


----------



## AnnSebastian

Proud to be erratic said:


> I feel sure that Libre 2 is taking readings more frequently than 4 per hour, but maybe only downloading 4 per hour to the app. Thinking about it it has to be pretty frequent, at least every 5 mins and possible every min, otherwise how will the alarms have any credibility?
> Because Diabox piggy-backs on Libre and can provide CGM every minute (normally every 5 mins) the raw data minute be minute must be there. Have I misunderstood your comment?



My Libre ‘alarm’ goes off within a minute or so of my BG reaching the target I’ve set for myself.


----------



## trophywench

Interesting re Libre 3 Kaylz!  - that British chap who lives in Germany told us quite a bit about the 3 last year, didn't he?  I've been trying to think of his user name recently to have a look and see what he said, but haven't remembered yet, there was no urgency as we were only just getting the 2, generally so all something comfortably in the future and no point clogging up brain with things I don't need at present, just to look forward to!!


----------



## Bruce Stephens

Proud to be erratic said:


> Have I misunderstood your comment?


Probably. I agree that it's almost certainly sampling more often than that. There's a product (with different branding) being advertised to sports enthusiasts which uses Libre 2 sensors (or almost surely does, anyway), and the app for that gets a reading every minute, I think. (Which is compatible with my suspicion that the Libre 3 electronics is roughly the same as the Libre 2's.)

But we also know the resolution when downloaded is 4 readings an hour (at least, that's what the Libre 1 specification said). I'm guessing that'll follow through (because it seems good enough, and keeping things the same is safer than making changes, especially with devices requiring approval).

Hence my guesses: Libre 3 is a smaller Libre 2 with a new application (now approved to allow the system to be an rtCGM). I'd also guess it'll be able to fill in data should the phone lose connection, but I'd guess the resolution will be the same as for Libre 2 (so every 15 minutes for most of the 8 hours, but maybe per minute for the most recent, or whatever Libre 2 (and Libre 1) currently has). Will it support scanning over NFC? My guess is yes (because disabling that would be an unnecessary change) but I can believe the apps won't do that (since they can just use Bluetooth LE).


----------



## Robin

I


trophywench said:


> Interesting re Libre 3 Kaylz!  - that British chap who lives in Germany told us quite a bit about the 3 last year, didn't he?  I've been trying to think of his user name recently to have a look and see what he said, but haven't remembered yet, there was no urgency as we were only just getting the 2, generally so all something comfortably in the future and no point clogging up brain with things I don't need at present, just to look forward to!!


It was @Paulbreen I think.


----------



## Robin

Proud to be erratic said:


> I feel sure that Libre 2 is taking readings more frequently than 4 per hour, but maybe only downloading 4 per hour to the app. Thinking about it it has to be pretty frequent, at least every 5 mins and possible every min, otherwise how will the alarms have any credibility?
> Because Diabox piggy-backs on Libre and can provide CGM every minute (normally every 5 mins) the raw data minute be minute must be there. Have I misunderstood your comment?


I had a Google, and I could only find something in the Canadian Abbott Libre site, but it’s probably the same. It stores and downloads one reading per 15 minutes, but it actually takes readings every minute, so if you scan, it gives you the up to date one (but then the algorithm alters it by trying to catch it up with a real-time blood reading, I think, just to confuse matters)








						Freestyle Libre system
					

Find the answers to common questions about FreeStyle Libre system.




					www.freestyle.abbott
				



Sorry, it won’t link to the right question. you need to click on the 'sensors'option on the side menu, then it’s the 5th and 8th questions that are relevant here.


----------



## helli

The Libre 2 integration to xDrip is defaulted to an update every 5 minutes but could be every minute. 
The main reason I don't poll more frequently is the impact on my phone battery as I use my phone for my pump too.


----------



## AnnSebastian

AnnSebastian said:


> Technology -  The Freestyle Libre System uses a Bluetooth sensor attached to your arm to read your BG using levels as often as you like, just by scanning it with a smart phone. Each sensor lasts for two weeks. It’s not for everyone but for some people - like me - it’s a game changer.
> 
> Libre is currently only available on NHS to people with T1 - and even then with strict eligibility criteria. But that could change.
> 
> I’m posting this thread for current and prospective users, carers, professionals and anyone else with an interest, to connect, inform and share experiences.
> 
> Ann




It’s a little against my principles to promote private healthcare devices and shareholder profits - but I’m going to post this link  to the FreestyleLibre 14 day trial offer in UK because it’s worth a try. 

The free trial has no strings. You just need to have a phone that is compatible with the LibreLink app. 

Suggest trying to download the app first to check. 

I’m posting this because a few people have asked how much it costs and I wouldn’t want to be responsible for encouraging people to take a chance by paying for it. 

 If you can get the free trial offer it will cost you nothing just to check it out. Then you can decide for yourself. 




			free-trial


----------



## AnnSebastian

Lucyr said:


> People that are new to diabetes though and google for more information on libre might just copy the intitials into Google and not get what they are looking for.
> 
> If you type Flash GM into google the first link is freestyle libre and the second is more info from diabetes uk. If you just type in the three initials you get a description of the other meaning and a helpline. Which of those is more helpful for people wanting info on libre…


----------



## AnnSebastian

And no - I’m not hoping to profit from promoting FreestyleLibre - except maybe by making them pay more attention to issues that come up and making their customer services 100 % accessible to anyone, anytime, anywhere who needs a response?


----------



## travellor

AnnSebastian said:


> It’s a little against my principles to promote private healthcare devices and shareholder profits - but I’m going to post this link  to the FreestyleLibre 14 day trial offer in UK because it’s worth a try.
> 
> The free trial has no strings. You just need to have a phone that is compatible with the LibreLink app.
> 
> Suggest trying to download the app first to check.
> 
> I’m posting this because a few people have asked how much it costs and I wouldn’t want to be responsible for encouraging people to take a chance by paying for it.
> 
> If you can get the free trial offer it will cost you nothing just to check it out. Then you can decide for yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> free-trial



Shareholders would still make more profit by putting the money in the bank.
And can you imagine the cost to taxpayers if the NHS attempted to develop and manufacture a product like this?


----------



## helli

AnnSebastian said:


> It’s a little against my principles to promote private healthcare devices and shareholder profits - but I’m going to post this link to the FreestyleLibre 14 day trial offer in UK because it’s worth a try.


Repeating a link from an earlier post is promoting a private healthcare device less than setting up a thread about it.
I think it is great to discuss it so not questioning the value of this thread (and the many many others about LIbre on the forum).


----------



## AnnSebastian

helli said:


> Repeating a link from an earlier post is promoting a private healthcare device less than setting up a thread about it.
> I think it is great to discuss it so not questioning the value of this thread (and the many many others about LIbre on the forum).




 Watch this space. 

I use emojis a lot to replace complicated emotions - but I’m not sure if they get posted along with the text.


----------



## AnnSebastian

AnnSebastian said:


> Watch this space.
> 
> I use emojis a lot to replace complicated emotions - but I’m not sure if they get posted along with the text.



For any of you who use Twitter - or may consider using it in the future - or don’t know this already - The Libre Twitter account is @FreeStyleDiabet


----------



## AnnSebastian

helli said:


> Repeating a link from an earlier post is promoting a private healthcare device less than setting up a thread about it.
> I think it is great to discuss it so not questioning the value of this thread (and the many many others about LIbre on the forum).



Great!!!
Maybe if we could pull everything together that is about the technology - and availability - not just daily feedback - although that matters too - we could make some kind of a difference ?


----------



## Nick Cliff

I'm a type 2 who has also taken advantage of the 14 day free trial of Libre 2. I found it very insightful, as I could see what my b.g. was doing at times I'd never done fingerprick tests or when it's impractical to do so, such as when sleeping, exercising or when out and about. I also got a clearer idea of the impact of meals.  I'm a "follow the data" person, so for me it was great, but I realise it wouldn't suit everyone.
The sensor packed in on day 8 of 14 so Abbott sent me a free replacement which I'm yet to use. At £50 a go, and with my diabetes under reasonable control, I only plan to use one occasionally. I'll start the second free trial when life is a bit less "Groundhog Day" as we emerge from winter and Covid.
As others have said, I don't get test strips on prescription any longer, so self fund these, but I only test every few days to check I'm not drifting.
I shared a summary of my Libre results with my GP when she was reviewing my progress, but it was my HbA1c which was critical to her decision that I can remain off medication.
Hope this is helpful to others.
Nick


----------



## Kaylz

@trophywench @Robin is correct, it was Paul who was going to let us know how it went but last he posted he was just about to start using them but life was busy, sadly most in this thread don't stand much of a chance of getting :3 but yourself, helli and Inka would have the advantage with being pumpers xx


----------



## AnnSebastian

Nick Cliff said:


> I'm a type 2 who has also taken advantage of the 14 day free trial of Libre 2. I found it very insightful, as I could see what my b.g. was doing at times I'd never done fingerprick tests or when it's impractical to do so, such as when sleeping, exercising or when out and about. I also got a clearer idea of the impact of meals.  I'm a "follow the data" person, so for me it was great, but I realise it wouldn't suit everyone.
> The sensor packed in on day 8 of 14 so Abbott sent me a free replacement which I'm yet to use. At £50 a go, and with my diabetes under reasonable control, I only plan to use one occasionally. I'll start the second free trial when life is a bit less "Groundhog Day" as we emerge from winter and Covid.
> As others have said, I don't get test strips on prescription any longer, so self fund these, but I only test every few days to check I'm not drifting.
> I shared a summary of my Libre results with my GP when she was reviewing my progress, but it was my HbA1c which was critical to her decision that I can remain off medication.
> Hope this is helpful to others.
> Nick


 
I could be wrong - but as far as I know - the test strips are only available on NHS to people injecting insulin. It wouldn’t make sense not to be - risk of hypos and diabetic coma. 

Agree that it’s a very useful exercise to try the ‘free trial’ even if it’s just to get a better understanding of how BG goes up and down. 

I had only intended to use it to understand it more and establish better patterns. But I’m going to keep using until either it’s available on NHS or I have set up habits to support ‘remission’.


----------



## pondita

helli said:


> The Libre 2 integration to xDrip is defaulted to an update every 5 minutes but could be every minute.


I've recently downloaded the xDrip4iOS to my iPhone, and love that it gives me rtCGM from my Libre2.  I've adjusted my notifications so that the readings show on a banner across the top, and on my lock screen.  I'm still exploring all it can do.


----------



## helli

AnnSebastian said:


> but as far as I know - the test strips are only available on NHS to people injecting insulin.


And on other medication which may cause hypos such as Glycazide (sp?)
Then there are some fortunate people with type 2 who have DSNs/GPs who understand teh value of testing and may also prescribe test strips. 

Unfortunately, I think going from a culture of rare test strip prescription for people with type 2 to prescribing Libre for people with type 2 is a huge jump. It is not just the cost of the LIbre (which is significant compared to test strips - I was told 1 Libre equates to about 10 test strips per day), it is also the cost of training people to use them. I don't mean how to apply them, I mean how to interpret the data and what the limitations are. Sadly, I have seen too many posts from people who are wasting their/the NHS money because they see Libre as a replacement of "painful" finger pricks and nothing more.


----------



## AnnSebastian

grovesy said:


> It is not an app on the PC it is a programme linked to Abbott.



Just trying not to get bogged down by ‘overthinking’ anything. 

Often a problem for me. If anyone is interested in checking out the #LibreFreestyle free trial I truly believe they would benefit most to  - download the app to make sure it works on their phone - order the free trial - slap it on their arm - use it and  take the opportunity to see if it works for them - it really is that simple. 

Then research it before deciding if it’s a worthwhile expense.


----------



## AnnSebastian

helli said:


> And on other medication which may cause hypos such as Glycazide (sp?)
> Then there are some fortunate people with type 2 who have DSNs/GPs who understand teh value of testing and may also prescribe test strips.
> 
> Unfortunately, I think going from a culture of rare test strip prescription for people with type 2 to prescribing Libre for people with type 2 is a huge jump. It is not just the cost of the LIbre (which is significant compared to test strips - I was told 1 Libre equates to about 10 test strips per day), it is also the cost of training people to use them. I don't mean how to apply them, I mean how to interpret the data and what the limitations are. Sadly, I have seen too many posts from people who are wasting their/the NHS money because they see Libre as a replacement of "painful" finger pricks and nothing more.



I totally get that. Which is why I say ‘it’s not for everyone’. 

Without intending to be patronising - to benefit one would need to be (or have a carer who is) able to -understand blood glucose levels and how they impact diabetic prognoses - how the device actually works - interpret graphs and various other datum- - basically to ‘take back control’ of their own health. 

I found my way around by myself but we’re all different.m. I see there are NHS ‘courses’ to train people and there are options for people who are previously ‘self funded’ It’s not viable to spend vast amounts of public money on expensive devices unless they are going to benefit specific individuals. But a lot of people could benefit. They just need a little imagination. 

I guess it would need to be for people ‘under the care of a consultant’ to be considered a viable option?


----------



## AnnSebastian

helli said:


> And on other medication which may cause hypos such as Glycazide (sp?)
> Then there are some fortunate people with type 2 who have DSNs/GPs who understand teh value of testing and may also prescribe test strips.
> 
> Unfortunately, I think going from a culture of rare test strip prescription for people with type 2 to prescribing Libre for people with type 2 is a huge jump. It is not just the cost of the LIbre (which is significant compared to test strips - I was told 1 Libre equates to about 10 test strips per day), it is also the cost of training people to use them. I don't mean how to apply them, I mean how to interpret the data and what the limitations are. Sadly, I have seen too many posts from people who are wasting their/the NHS money because they see Libre as a replacement of "painful" finger pricks and nothing more.


Again, I could be wrong, but I believe people injecting insulin are prescribed test strips automatically. 
And as do, as some else suggested people on some medications.


----------



## Kaylz

AnnSebastian said:


> download the app to make sure it works on their phone


I'm afraid that doesn't mean it will work, the app is available on the Play Store to anyone, just because you can download it doesn't mean it will work so you wouldn't necessarily know until you tried to use a sensor, some phones that have the capability aren't even recommended so it really isn't as simple as the way you put it out


----------



## AnnSebastian

Kaylz said:


> I'm afraid that doesn't mean it will work, the app is available on the Play Store to anyone, just because you can download it doesn't mean it will work so you wouldn't necessarily know until you tried to use a sensor, some phones that have the capability aren't even recommended so it really isn't as simple as the way you put it out



I use IOS - but that is yet another very good reason not to part with money - get the free sample - and take it from there. 

Just resist the temptation to ‘overthink’ - nothing much to lose really.


----------



## Kaylz

It doesn't really matter what you use, it's still available to anyone regardless of the platform and earlier models of iPhones don't have the capability but it still shows on Apple


----------



## pondita

helli said:


> I mean how to interpret the data and what the limitations are.


I agree with what you said. Thankfully I had a good understanding of diabetes (through several sources) before becoming T1 myself, and the Libre2 has been invaluable.   I already knew about the LIbre system, and wanted to kiss the feet of my diabetic nurse and diabetesologist when they prescribed it for me.


----------



## AnnSebastian

Kaylz said:


> It doesn't really matter what you use, it's still available to anyone regardless of the platform and earlier models of iPhones don't have the capability but it still shows on Apple



I wasn’t looking for an argument. 

Just trying to share something I’ve tried and is helping me. 

It’s pretty simple really. 

Either you do or don’t have a phone that supports the LibreFreestyle app. iOS or android- or anything else. 

The ‘free trial’ is free anyway. 

There is also a #FreestyleLibre 
website - one I haven’t personally checked out but other people have posted links and say it works. 

A free trial doesn’t require detailed research - just typing your details into a website - and if you’re wary of sharing information - create a new ID. But the address has to be right. 

What is the problem?


----------



## Lily123

AnnSebastian said:


> I wasn’t looking for an argument.
> 
> Just trying to share something I’ve tried and is helping me.
> 
> It’s pretty simple really.
> 
> Either you do or don’t have a phone that supports the LibreFreestyle app. iOS or android- or anything else.
> 
> The ‘free trial’ is free anyway.
> 
> There is also a #FreestyleLibre
> website - one I haven’t personally checked out but other people have posted links and say it works.
> 
> A free trial doesn’t require detailed research - just typing your details into a website - and if you’re wary of sharing information - create a new ID. But the address has to be right.
> 
> What is the problem?


Hi, it’s more that some earlier model phones don’t have the NFC chip for scanning the Libre sensor


----------



## helli

AnnSebastian said:


> Either you do or don’t have a phone that supports the LibreFreestyle app. iOS or android- or anything else.


It is not _just_ about supporting the app. 

As others have tried to explain - you can download and play with the app on phones that don't have NFC. But without NFC you cannot use the sensor. 

The trial may appear free but Abbott are not giving the sensors away out of the kindness of their heart. They have to pay for them some how which is probably through the cost of the sensors they do sell. Getting a sensor (even one) and not using it because, for example, your phone cannot scan the sensors, is a waste.


----------



## AnnSebastian

Lily123 said:


> Hi, it’s more that some earlier model phones don’t have the NFC chip for scanning the Libre sensor



Which is why I’m not advising ANYONE to pay money for it. Just take up the ‘free trial’ offer and then reflect. Don’t need to use it straight away. You need to open the sensor and then apply it before it kicks in. Probably has a longish ‘use by time’


----------



## Lily123

AnnSebastian said:


> Which is why I’m not advising ANYONE to pay money for it. Just take up the ‘free trial’ offer and then reflect. Don’t need to use it straight away. You need to open the sensor and then apply it before it kicks in. Probably has a longish ‘use by time’


Any phone that runs on Apple or Android can download the app and the app will work but if the phone doesn’t have a NFC chip then the sensor won’t scan,like @helli said if someone was to get a sensor then found out it didn’t work for their phone then that’s a waste of a sensor


----------



## AnnSebastian

AnnSebastian said:


> Which is why I’m not advising ANYONE to pay money for it. Just take up the ‘free trial’ offer and then reflect. Don’t need to use it straight away. You need to open the sensor and then apply it before it kicks in. Probably has a longish ‘use by time’


But yes.  Of course it’s about making money for Libre.  Our job is to make sure we get the best possible deal for anything we choose to subscribe to - and hold the sellers to account if we don’t?


----------



## AnnSebastian

Lily123 said:


> Any phone that runs on Apple or Android can download the app and the app will work but if the phone doesn’t have a NFC chip then the sensor won’t scan,like @helli said if someone was to get a sensor then found out it didn’t work for their phone then that’s a waste of a sensor



BUT ITS FREE!!!! 
It is no loss to Abbot Freestyle - they’re investing millions. 
Many people will be able to use it. 
Some may find their phones aren’t compatible and will put to them one side and reflect to come back later. 
Others won’t bother. 
But Abbot are making millions -whatever else you do - don’t have a false sense of altruism and believe you’ll be ‘wasting’ a sensor. They probably cost pennies to make.


----------



## helli

AnnSebastian said:


> BUT ITS FREE!!!!
> It is no loss to Abbot Freestyle - they’re investing millions.
> Many people will be able to use it.
> Some may find their phones aren’t compatible and will put to them one side and reflect to come back later.
> Others won’t bother.
> But Abbot are making millions -whatever else you do - don’t have a false sense of altruism and believe you’ll be ‘wasting’ a sensor. They probably cost pennies to make.


It is a waste of money of plastic, of resources to manufacture it, of fuel to transport it and of money. 

It may be a drop in the ocean for all of these things but "because it's free" is not a reason to take something you cannot use when it takes 5 minutes to check whether you have a compatible phone with NFC. 

I am passionate about minimising waste in our fragile planet. One of the reasons I decided not to use Dexcom is that their applicator uses more plastic. You may think the cost to Abbott is minimal ... it may be small but it still costs them something they pass on to their customers. 

We are only talking about taking the time to check your phone is usable and many people will already know if their phone has NFC. But telling them they only need Bluetooth is not helpful.


----------



## AnnSebastian

helli said:


> It is a waste of money of plastic, of resources to manufacture it, of fuel to transport it and of money.
> 
> It may be a drop in the ocean for all of these things but "because it's free" is not a reason to take something you cannot use when it takes 5 minutes to check whether you have a compatible phone with NFC.
> 
> I am passionate about minimising waste in our fragile planet. One of the reasons I decided not to use Dexcom is that their applicator uses more plastic. You may think the cost to Abbott is minimal ... it may be small but it still costs them something they pass on to their customers.
> 
> We are only talking about taking the time to check your phone is usable and many people will already know if their phone has NFC. But telling them they only need Bluetooth is not helpful.



Hmmm,… There are far more effective things individuals can do to impact waste and address Climate Change rather than ignore an opportunity that may have a chance of changing their lives.


----------



## AnnSebastian

AnnSebastian said:


> Hmmm,… There are far more effective things individuals can do to impact waste and address Climate Change rather than ignore an opportunity that may have a chance of changing their lives.



Just one example. 

If you store any photos / data / anything at all in ‘the cloud’ - then stop now. You will be saving a lot more CO2 output than getting a small free plastic widget. 

You may have done that already but there are hundreds more examples…


----------



## travellor

AnnSebastian said:


> Which is why I’m not advising ANYONE to pay money for it. Just take up the ‘free trial’ offer and then reflect. Don’t need to use it straight away. You need to open the sensor and then apply it before it kicks in. Probably has a longish ‘use by time’



The NHS will be paying by an price rise on the ones they are paying for.
Personal customers will be paying.
It's a complete waste just to get one because "it's free" 
It's also a waste of plastic, and the other resources to manufacture it as said.


----------



## trophywench

Well if you went on the Libre website you could work your way through the Academy vids and thus see exactly how to use the thing interpret the results and everything, before getting one - and if you are only getting ONE and don't yet know whether you want to invest £48 a fortnight, or even request them on prescription should you be eligible I'd have thought it would be far more sensible to learn about it as much as you can before you get it.

I'm sorry - but your way of launching into things without reading the 'help to use things' whether it be this forum or the Libre is absolutely NOT sensible.


----------



## Kaylz

Seems the forums knowledge and experiences count for nothing with some members, they are in the right and everybody else is wrong, pfft


----------



## AnnSebastian

Kaylz said:


> Seems the forums knowledge and experiences count for nothing with some members, they are in the right and everybody else is wrong, pfft




Seriously? 

I thought I was in the user forum - perhaps I’ve gatecrashed the ‘Professional’ forum by mistake. 

My bad.


----------



## AnnSebastian

trophywench said:


> Well if you went on the Libre website you could work your way through the Academy vids and thus see exactly how to use the thing interpret the results and everything, before getting one - and if you are only getting ONE and don't yet know whether you want to invest £48 a fortnight, or even request them on prescription should you be eligible I'd have thought it would be far more sensible to learn about it as much as you can before you get it.
> 
> I'm sorry - but your way of launching into things without reading the 'help to use things' whether it be this forum or the Libre is absolutely NOT sensible.



Alternatively, if you’re educated, reasonably IT literate and able to pick up on most concepts that are explained in layman’s terms - a full -time courses in LibreFreestyle isn’t totally necessary.


----------



## AnnSebastian

AnnSebastian said:


> Technology -  The Freestyle Libre System uses a Bluetooth sensor attached to your arm to read your BG using levels as often as you like, just by scanning it with a smart phone. Each sensor lasts for two weeks. It’s not for everyone but for some people - like me - it’s a game changer.
> 
> Libre is currently only available on NHS to people with T1 - and even then with strict eligibility criteria. But that could change.
> 
> I’m posting this thread for current and prospective users, carers, professionals and anyone else with an interest, to connect, inform and share experiences.
> 
> Ann



Taking a break.


----------



## Kaylz

All you've done is dismiss everyone that has said anything that disagrees with you, you haven't taken one bit of it in and you continue to dismiss when there are more than one person saying the same thing

Again the Libre is not a bluetooth sensor, it has bluetooth connectivity but that is not the same as a bluetooth sensor, the Libre Academy is a very useful tool (it allows people to understand the Libre system for one) regardless of how educated you are etc and is standard to do in order to obtain it on prescription unless you were self funding before in which case patients may be able to avoid it


----------



## mark king

---


----------



## Kaylz

mark king said:


> ---


overuse!      xx


----------



## AnnSebastian

pondita said:


> I've recently downloaded the xDrip4iOS to my iPhone, and love that it gives me rtCGM from my Libre2.  I've adjusted my notifications so that the readings show on a banner across the top, and on my lock screen.  I'm still exploring all it can do.



I’ve just read your post again and seen the ‘xDrip4iOS’ looked interesting so I googled it. Can’t  find a way to download it in apple apps - maybe it’s somewhere else?
Help?


----------



## travellor

pondita said:


> I've recently downloaded the xDrip4iOS to my iPhone, and love that it gives me rtCGM from my Libre2.  I've adjusted my notifications so that the readings show on a banner across the top, and on my lock screen.  I'm still exploring all it can do.


The Android version looks worth a go as well.


----------



## Inka

AnnSebastian said:


> BUT ITS FREE!!!!
> It is no loss to Abbot Freestyle - they’re investing millions.
> Many people will be able to use it.
> Some may find their phones aren’t compatible and will put to them one side and reflect to come back later.
> Others won’t bother.
> But Abbot are making millions -whatever else you do - don’t have a false sense of altruism and believe you’ll be ‘wasting’ a sensor. They probably cost pennies to make.



It’s not just the waste and casual tossing away of something, it’s the disappointment for the person who thought they could trial the Libre. I saw the free trial - I was very excited. Then I saw my phone wasn’t listed as compatible so no free trial for me. It p****d me off. Anyone who can afford an expensive phone can probably afford the £50 to try the sensor. People who have cheaper phones do so because they have very little money - none spare to buy a sensor to try and none spare to buy a new, more expensive phone.


----------



## AnnSebastian

mark king said:


> ---




If I could get emojis to register here I’d post ‘are you ganging up on me’ 
With a few different faces.


----------



## Kaylz

Inka said:


> Then I saw my phone wasn’t listed as compatible


They aren't all listed unfortunately, my phone has never been stated on the list but has worked for almost 3 years with the sensors xx


----------



## Inka

AnnSebastian said:


> Hmmm,… There are far more effective things individuals can do to impact waste and address Climate Change rather than ignore an opportunity that may have a chance of changing their lives.



It *won’t* change their life if they can’t use it due to not having a suitable phone!!


----------



## AnnSebastian

AnnSebastian said:


> If I could get emojis to register here I’d post ‘are you ganging up on me’
> With a few different faces.


It worked!


----------



## Kaylz

Inka said:


> It *won’t* change their life if they can’t use it due to not having a suitable phone!!


I wouldn't bother Inka, it's wasted trying to get the bigger picture out there xx


----------



## AnnSebastian

Lily123 said:


> Hi, it’s more that some earlier model phones don’t have the NFC chip for scanning the Libre sensor



Just to be crystal clear 
To use the Freestyle Libre you DO need a compatible phone!!!!


----------



## Lucyr

AnnSebastian said:


> BUT ITS FREE!!!!
> It is no loss to Abbot Freestyle - they’re investing millions.
> Many people will be able to use it.
> Some may find their phones aren’t compatible and will put to them one side and reflect to come back later.
> Others won’t bother.
> But Abbot are making millions -whatever else you do - don’t have a false sense of altruism and believe you’ll be ‘wasting’ a sensor. They probably cost pennies to make.


I'm pretty sure people like me who pay out £100 a month to self fund the sensors, are funding that "free" trial. There is no point encouraging people to apply for it unless they know they can make use of the sensors.


----------



## helli

AnnSebastian said:


> I’ve just read your post again and seen the ‘xDrip4iOS’ looked interesting so I googled it. Can’t  find a way to download it in apple apps - maybe it’s somewhere else?
> Help?


This was mentioned on another thread.
I find the Search on the top right of the page (and Google) very useful when someone references something I don’t understand.


----------



## AnnSebastian

Inka said:


> It’s not just the waste and casual tossing away of something, it’s the disappointment for the person who thought they could trial the Libre. I saw the free trial - I was very excited. Then I saw my phone wasn’t listed as compatible so no free trial for me. It p****d me off. Anyone who can afford an expensive phone can probably afford the £50 to try the sensor. People who have cheaper phones do so because they have very little money - none spare to buy a sensor to try and none spare to buy a new, more expensive phone.


----------



## AnnSebastian

Benny G said:


> I have been using the Libre sensors for a few years. I paid for them myself for the first 3 years and now have them on prescription.
> I discovered the best way to fully utilise Libre was to add 3rd party apps and hardware to upgrade the Libre 1 to rtCGM.
> I also use Abbot's app to allow my consultant to follow my progress.
> 
> Below I include a screenshot of xDrip that I use with a Blucon and Libre 1. The app is better and gives me all the features, and more, of Libre 2, and Libre 3.
> View attachment 19979


Thank you. I’ve taken a screen shot and will google for options.


----------



## AnnSebastian

Lucyr said:


> I'm pretty sure people like me who pay out £100 a month to self fund the sensors, are funding that "free" trial. There is no point encouraging people to apply for it unless they know they can make use of the sensors.



A bit harsh?


----------



## Lucyr

AnnSebastian said:


> A bit harsh?


I’m not sure what you mean?


----------



## travellor

AnnSebastian said:


> A bit harsh?


No.
There is no point in trying to grab one simply because it's free, regardless of whether you can use it or not.
This offer won't last forever, you aren't punishing "big pharma" for making a profit, all you are doing is taking it off someone who could have used it before the offer runs out.


----------



## trophywench

and meanwhile we try and encourage our children grandchildren and great grandchildren not to waste precious resources.  If adults don't engage with it, how will kids?


----------



## everydayupsanddowns

AnnSebastian said:


> Watch this space.
> 
> I use emojis a lot to replace complicated emotions - but I’m not sure if they get posted along with the text.



I think you missed my emoji reply on the ‘Dawn Phenomenon’ thread?

Emojis are a bit hidden in the forum text editor, but they do exist!

The forum software cannot interpret the massive library of emojis on many smart devices, but it will convert several of the old ‘punctuation’ versions, and various text shortcuts…



		Code:
	

:) ;) :( :mad: 8) :D :eek: o_O :rofl: :rolleyes:  etc etc



Additionally there is a menu under the … menu by the link/image buttons in the toolbar. This is the current set of options:



The menu is here:


Hope that helps


----------



## AnnSebastian

everydayupsanddowns said:


> I think you missed my emoji reply on the ‘Dawn Phenomenon’ thread?
> 
> Emojis are a bit hidden in the forum text editor, but they do exist!
> 
> The forum software cannot interpret the massive library of emojis on many smart devices, but it will convert several of the old ‘punctuation’ versions, and various text shortcuts…
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> :) ;) :( :mad: 8) :D :eek: o_O :rofl: :rolleyes:  etc etc
> 
> 
> 
> Additionally there is a menu under the … menu by the link/image buttons in the toolbar. This is the current set of options:
> 
> 
> 
> The menu is here:
> View attachment 19981
> 
> Hope that helps



Thanks. I’ve only just seen this.


----------



## helli

@AnnSebastian I was thinking this thread has been useful for new starters to find information about the Libre - how to get it, what it does, etc. 
As you started it, I wondered if it would be useful for you to explain how you use the graphs to manage your diabetes? What do you look for in the graphs and how do you use it to adapt and improve your diabetes management?


----------



## AnnSebastian

Deleted


----------



## AnnSebastian

AnnSebastian said:


> Not sure I have the energy to do this thoroughly. But I’ll make a start.
> 
> I won’t go into setting up the app and pairing it with the sensor right now. It’s not too difficult though.
> 
> My goal was to reduce my A1C by any means necessary ASAP and then focus on losing weight and forming better habits. I’d fallen off the wagon, I was still taking insulin but rarely checking my BG. When I did the levels were high - often 10-16. Not everyone has the same agenda this was just mine.
> 
> Once I’d set it up I started scanning. To scan, you hold the camera of your phone over the scanner on your arm and it registers. You can do it as often as you want to. You can choose the range of BG you want to achieve in ‘Settings’  And you can also change the numbers whenever you want to. At first I set my target range as 3.9 - 10.
> 
> To start with I paid attention to the ‘log book’ readings.
> 
> This is a screenshot of one day from a log - November last year. Needed two pages to fit it all in.
> 
> At this point my ‘range’ was set at 3.9-10.
> 
> Red represents low readings (risk of hypo) Green represents ‘in range’ yellow means high and orange means very high.
> 
> I have to say my current readings are nothing like as bad as this. But that’s another story.
> 
> This is actually hard work so taking a break.  But I’ve made a start. I can screenshot pages from the LibreLink App if anyone would like to see them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 19984View attachment 19985


Sorry. Double posted an image. Again. 

This is the list of options you have in the app.


----------



## helli

I guess I wasn't clear @AnnSebastian I was asking to understand how you interpret the graphs to make a change to your diabetes management. 

For example, as someone with Type 1 diabetes with an insulin pump, I keep any eye on my levels and, if they are rising, I can give myself some more insulin and if they are falling I can suspend my basal.


----------



## AnnSebastian

_I was writing for anyone who knows nothing about it. 
I have T2 diabetes. 
I don’t have a consultant I use primary care. 
I don’t have the option of short or long acting insulin. 
My only options are - adjust the timing and content of my diet to make necessary changes. 
I use Innulard long acting insulin. I don’t expect to be able to come off it anytime soon but my focus is on diet to change my BG lower my A1C and finding the best timing and dosage of insulin to stay on track indefinitely. 

So we probably don’t have enough in common to make my own experience that relevant to yours. _


----------



## helli

Sorry @AnnSebastian I really am doing a very bad job at explaining myself. 

I see this as a thread for people to learn and understand what they can do with a Libre beyond what they can get from the material on the official website which tell you how to start the sensor, scan the sensor and read the menus ... for people who know nothing about it. 

I gave an example of what *I* do as someone with Type 1 with a pump ... this may be useful for other people in my situation. 

I was asking what *you* do so that other people with type 2 on mixed insulin (from another thread you showed you were taking Insulatard) can a benefit from the data they get form the LIbre graph. How do you respond to your levels going high or low?

I am not doing this to learn myself (apart from when someone with type 2 asks for advice) but to make this thread more useful than a Libre instruction manual which is already available here.


----------



## Bruce Stephens

helli said:


> I was asking what *you* do so that other people with type 2 on mixed insulin (from another thread you showed you were taking Insulatard) can a benefit from the data they get form the LIbre graph.


I think technically Insulatard is a long acting insulin, isn't it? (I know I used to use it with Actrapid as the fast acting one, before being moved to Levemir and Novorapid.)


----------



## AnnSebastian

helli said:


> Sorry @AnnSebastian I really am doing a very bad job at explaining myself.
> 
> I see this as a thread for people to learn and understand what they can do with a Libre beyond what they can get from the material on the official website which tell you how to start the sensor, scan the sensor and read the menus ... for people who know nothing about it.
> 
> I gave an example of what *I* do as someone with Type 1 with a pump ... this may be useful for other people in my situation.
> 
> I was asking what *you* do so that other people with type 2 on mixed insulin (from another thread you showed you were taking Insulatard) can a benefit from the data they get form the LIbre graph. How do you respond to your levels going high or low?
> 
> I am not doing this to learn myself (apart from when someone with type 2 asks for advice) but to make this thread more useful than a Libre instruction manual which is already available here.



I’m not quite sure what you want me to say. I signed up to this site but only recently started using it.

I started to ‘follow’ anyone posting about Libre- as a way to get to know people. Now I find that, suddenly, when I check out many of the members’ profiles who have replied - I only see this. (Image below) 

From what I can see, this either means the account is closed to outsiders - or the account has clicked on ‘ignore’ any posts from my account. 

Either way that’s fine. We’re all free agents. But for me, it does beg the question ‘why are you ‘trolling’ me with questions which seem to be designed to try to make me look ignorant? 

I may well be mistaken here, if I am I apologise profusely, but if I’m not - why don’t we both step up and click on ‘ignore’ - that way we can disconnect indefinitely? 

Sound like a plan? 

Ann


----------



## AnnSebastian

Bruce Stephens said:


> I think technically Insulatard is a long acting insulin, isn't it? (I know I used to use it with Actrapid as the fast acting one, before being moved to Levemir and Novorapid.)



Yes. My understanding is also that Insulatard is a long-acting human insulin.


----------



## helli

I completely apologise @AnnSebastian my intention has never been to make you look stupid or to troll you.
In fact it was the opposite - you have expressed your joy of the insights that Libre has given you so I was asking you to share those insights. The intelligence you have gained from having a sensor and how this has helped you manage your diabetes better. I thought it would be great for us to share our personal experience so that others who have just started using the Libre can learn from our combined knowledge.

As I said I have been unable to express myself in a way that you understand. That is totally my fault not yours.

Please accept my sincere apology. I will step away from this thread (once I have corrected another wrong on my part) as I have unintentionally upset you.


----------



## helli

AnnSebastian said:


> Yes. My understanding is also that Insulatard is a long-acting human insulin.


I guess it may be one of those insulins that come in different flavours - I used Insulutard when I was very first diagnosed and it was a mixed insulin.


----------



## trophywench

Inka is being patient.  If someone doesn't understand how something works it is reasonable to expect them at the very least to read the operating instructions and videos that the manufacturers/suppliers provide for that very purpose.  You freely admit you can't be bothered.  It's time I walked away from you, too, for that reason.


----------



## AnnSebastian

helli said:


> I guess it may be one of those insulins that come in different flavours - I used Insulutard when I was very first diagnosed and it was a mixed insulin.





@helli 

If you mean that - thanks. Apology 100 % accepted. 

I use Social Media regularly. Particular Twitter. And politics. I am used to conflict and disagreement there and give as good as I get without feeling targeted. If I make a comment I ‘own it’ But the rules are different on Twitter - you have to make your own judgements about responding to people who may be vulnerable. 

I dipped into this site to find something different. I was feeling a little fragile and thought it might offer some relief. I wasn’t expecting the abrasive replies I saw from some of the members. 

Admittedly I reacted more than I would normally - so I apologise for that. But there were a few comments that were unequivocally intended to be nasty. I don’t forgive those. 

Again. Thanks for that. If you mean it I hope we are good now? 

Ann x


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## travellor

helli said:


> I guess I wasn't clear @AnnSebastian I was asking to understand how you interpret the graphs to make a change to your diabetes management.
> 
> For example, as someone with Type 1 diabetes with an insulin pump, I keep any eye on my levels and, if they are rising, I can give myself some more insulin and if they are falling I can suspend my basal.



As a type 2, I can see good and bad coming from using a Libre.
For me, it would have definitely been good to use to adjust my diet initially, and see which low GI foods gave me an acceptable response.
I did a lot of fingerprick testing of all sorts of variables, this would have made it easier for that.

However, I have noticed a lot of possibly over zealous testing to chase spikes, looking at different times, then trying to keep within very close limits, and other behaviour, usually from internet gurus that HCP's already comment on.
While I did do this, I did it simply to find out how I respond, and then checked other people, and found most do the same.
I used It to define what I lived with, not what I avoided.

It is definitely a double edged sword, and has the potential to be used badly.

I am tempted to take a punt and see my reaction to red wine overnight though, as I have a suspicion I may go low now, but I wake up and go back to sleep instead of testing.


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## AnnSebastian

helli said:


> I completely apologise @AnnSebastian my intention has never been to make you look stupid or to troll you.
> In fact it was the opposite - you have expressed your joy of the insights that Libre has given you so I was asking you to share those insights. The intelligence you have gained from having a sensor and how this has helped you manage your diabetes better. I thought it would be great for us to share our personal experience so that others who have just started using the Libre can learn from our combined knowledge.
> 
> As I said I have been unable to express myself in a way that you understand. That is totally my fault not yours.
> 
> Please accept my sincere apology. I will step away from this thread (once I have corrected another wrong on my part) as I have unintentionally upset you.



No! Please don’t do that. Stay connected - I’m sure we have mutual interests.
I overreacted. Truly sorry.

I have T2 and just use GP services. I’m working on getting access to some short acting insulin to deal with a regular daily spike.

Your insights could really help me and maybe some of mine could help you? It’s always better to have a little prior knowledge before asking for a prescription for something that isn’t generally offered.

I don’t have a ‘consultant’ just use GP services -


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## AnnSebastian

trophywench said:


> Inka is being patient.  If someone doesn't understand how something works it is reasonable to expect them at the very least to read the operating instructions and videos that the manufacturers/suppliers provide for that very purpose.  You freely admit you can't be bothered.  It's time I walked away from you, too, for that reason.


 Can’t work out who this is addressed to. Is it me? 


AnnSebastian said:


> @helli
> 
> If you mean that - thanks. Apology 100 % accepted.
> 
> I use Social Media regularly. Particular Twitter. And politics. I am used to conflict and disagreement there and give as good as I get without feeling targeted. If I make a comment I ‘own it’ But the rules are different on Twitter - you have to make your own judgements about responding to people who may be vulnerable.
> 
> I dipped into this site to find something different. I was feeling a little fragile and thought it might offer some relief. I wasn’t expecting the abrasive replies I saw from some of the members.
> 
> Admittedly I reacted more than I would normally - so I apologise for that. But there were a few comments that were unequivocally intended to be nasty. I don’t forgive those.
> 
> Again. Thanks for that. If you mean it I hope we are good now?
> 
> Ann x



I’m still struggling to post 
on this site using a phone screen. My fault.  I think I’m posting quite a few things more than once. Apologies if it’s getting to be a habit.


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## AnnSebastian

AnnSebastian said:


> Sorry. Double posted an image. Again.
> 
> This is the list of options you have in the app. View attachment 19986





PS - mostly for the benefit of my own ego - I’m posting todays Libre ‘log’ as well - in case anyone looked at the older images with ‘raised eyebrows’ and instantly wrote me off.

I am so pleased that I’ve started to turn this around. I’ve had a few hiccups but so far I’ve overcome them. Just need to keep going. Next goal is ‘massive weight loss’. Probably keto orientated.


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## travellor

AnnSebastian said:


> PS - mostly for the benefit of my own ego - I’m posting todays Libre ‘log’ as well - in case anyone looked at the older images with ‘raised eyebrows’ and instantly wrote me off.
> 
> I am so pleased that I’ve started to turn this around. I’ve had a few hiccups but so far I’ve overcome them. Just need to keep going. Next goal is ‘massive weight loss’. Probably keto orientated.
> 
> 
> View attachment 19989View attachment 19990


They look excellent numbers for type 2.


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## AnnSebastian

It’s the first day I haven’t had a massive spike a few hours after waking.  Despite trying everything - before - fasting - eating carbs or fat or protein or all. Not sure why though.


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## AnnSebastian

Benny G said:


> Hi @AnnSebastian, if you post a screen shot of your daily graph instead of the logbook we can see more clearly.
> 
> Here is my daily graph. It gives more information at a glance.
> 
> View attachment 19991
> 
> Above the graph you can see the note icons, which show that I made a note of Insulin, or food, or exercise. Matching the notes to the graph helps you to work out what happened and why.


It was a screenshot. I should have trimmed the edges.


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## AnnSebastian

Inka said:


> It *won’t* change their life if they can’t use it due to not having a suitable phone!!



It also won’t ‘change lives’ of a significant number of people if they are bombarded with a mass of information and told to learn it all before they even think about checking it out? 

People often have different ways of learning.


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## AnnSebastian

Lucyr said:


> I'm pretty sure people like me who pay out £100 a month to self fund the sensors, are funding that "free" trial. There is no point encouraging people to apply for it unless they know they can make use of the sensors.



@Lucyr  - The ‘CGM’  (and other related product) market is a cutthroat movable feast. Popularity is growing exponentially. I hadn’t researched it until recently - but there are at least two large global corporations competing to lead the market and establish their brand as the global market leader. If the NHS may expand the use of Libre and similar on prescription, it seems sensible to get informed now?

As to having your money used to fund that ‘free trial’ it probably isn’t - but how much more selfish can people get? Just google a few of the technical terms as well as the brands - and check the ‘news’ tab. There’s plenty out there. They’re investing a fortune in promotions - and an alternative way to see it could be - don’t let those promotions go to waste? 
#JustSaying 

Kind regards. 
Ann


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## AnnSebastian

AnnSebastian said:


> @Lucyr  - The ‘CGM’  (and other related product) market is a cutthroat movable feast. Popularity is growing exponentially. I hadn’t researched it until recently - but there are at least two large global corporations competing to lead the market and establish their brand as the global market leader. If the NHS may expand the use of Libre and similar on prescription, it seems sensible to get informed now?
> 
> As to having your money used to fund that ‘free trial’ it probably isn’t - but how much more selfish can people get? Just google a few of the technical terms as well as the brands - and check the ‘news’ tab. There’s plenty out there. They’re investing a fortune in promotions - and an alternative way to see it could be - don’t let those promotions go to waste?
> #JustSaying
> 
> Kind regards.
> Ann






A link to just one article - found without really trying too hard. There was plenty of choice. https://bristolcityst.org.uk/the-co...ems-market-2027-key-developmental-strategies/


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## AnnSebastian

AnnSebastian said:


> A link to just one article - found without really trying too hard. There was plenty of choice. https://bristolcityst.org.uk/the-co...ems-market-2027-key-developmental-strategies/




I wouldn’t normally have bothered doing this - but - I came to this website looking for a bit of moral support. I was really happy - loved the results of my ‘CGM’. I wasn’t expecting everyone to agree with me - but I thought it was exciting. 

Ignore me by all means - but please don’t jump on me with any more insults. 



A few more articles. Afraid the focus is on money but I’ll leave this here and move on. 

Don’t need to read them all the way through. Just skimming them is enough to get the idea. 



Kind regards

Ann



Global Continuous Glucose Monitoring Market Forecast Report 2020-2028: The First Publicly Available Forecast in Volume and Value Terms – Construction News Portal







The continuous glucose monitors market grows rapidly due to fast customer adoption



New regulations due to Brexit may limit medical devices from entering the UK - Medical Device Network


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## AnnSebastian

Benny G said:


> It was a screenshot of the wrong page. Sharing the graph page gives 24 hours of data. The log page records the brief moments when you scanned.



It wasn’t the wrong page. I intended to post a screenshot of the log. It’s the simplest place to start for some people.


travellor said:


> Did you come here to discuss CGM's, or simply to grind an axe against their invention, development and manufacture of them, while personally being happy to benefit from the technology?



I love the invention. I’m using it. It’s brilliant. But there appear to be a lot of competing systems that I wasn’t aware of until I logged on to this site.

I see from your bio that you were possibly involved in some of the earlier trial.  Or not?


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## AnnSebastian

AnnSebastian said:


> It wasn’t the wrong page. I intended to post a screenshot of the log. It’s the simplest place to start for some people.
> 
> 
> I love the invention. I’m using it. It’s brilliant. But there appear to be a lot of competing systems that I wasn’t aware of until I logged on to this site.
> 
> I see from your bio that you were possibly involved in some of the earlier trial.  Or not?


My post was ‘edited’ by the boss 

It also said something along the lines of - 
Please don’t reply to any more of my posts. You are really stressing me out. Leave me alone!  

( I refined the form of words)
 TBC


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## Inka

AnnSebastian said:


> It also won’t ‘change lives’ of a significant number of people if they are bombarded with a mass of information and told to learn it all before they even think about checking it out?
> 
> People often have different ways of learning.



?? I don’t know why you’ve picked out my quote from a while back - which was to do with you not appreciating that having Bluetooth on your phone was not enough with regard to the free trial.

Nobody needs to learn a mass of information, but they do need to be able to actually _use_ the Libre, don’t they? You say you’re replying on your phone and maybe that’s the problem? It’s easier to keep track of a thread and replies on a larger screen as they’re less discrete.

I believe @trophywench meant to say “Helli” not “Inka”. @helli is indeed being very patient.


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## AnnSebastian

AnnSebastian said:


> My post was ‘edited’ by the boss
> 
> It also said something along the lines of -
> Please don’t reply to any more of my posts. You are really stressing me out. Leave me alone!
> 
> ( I refined the form of words)
> TBC




@bennyg
Sorry, your post got muddled up with the other one. 
You probably made the right decision though. 
But I think I personally feel safer on Twitter. 
Regards. 

Ann


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## Inka

Ok, well I’m going to say it @AnnSebastian You came here informing us of a years old tech device that’s often discussed here and acted like we had never heard of it. You then said phones only needed Bluetooth and it took pages until you admitted you were wrong.

Poor Helli tried to be kind and nice but you even insulted her. People, including me, tried to tactfully hint that the Libre had been much discussed before but you just carried on.  I know it’s hard to read someone’s tone online but yours is coming across (hopefully) not as you intended. My tone here is blunt, just to be clear. We know about the Libre; we know to benefit from it and how to use it; we know about the free trial. If you want to tell us how you individually use yours, like @helli suggested, then that’s great and it will be interesting to read.


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## AnnSebastian

Inka said:


> Ok, well I’m going to say it @AnnSebastian You came here informing us of a years old tech device that’s often discussed here and acted like we had never heard of it. You then said phones only needed Bluetooth and it took pages until you admitted you were wrong.
> 
> Poor Helli tried to be kind and nice but you even insulted her. People, including me, tried to tactfully hint that the Libre had been much discussed before but you just carried on.  I know it’s hard to read someone’s tone online but yours is coming across (hopefully) not as you intended. My tone here is blunt, just to be clear. We know about the Libre; we know to benefit from it and how to use it; we know about the free trial. If you want to tell us how you individually use yours, like @helli suggested, then that’s great and it will be interesting to read.


@helli and I are fine as far as I’m aware. You really seem to have a core of bullies on this site. This post will probably get ‘deleted’ but I’m going to post it anyway.


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## Inka

AnnSebastian said:


> @helli and I are fine as far as I’m aware. You really seem to have a core of bullies on this site. This post will probably get ‘deleted’ but I’m going to post it anyway.



On the contrary, this site has many helpful, supportive and knowledgeable people. It takes a lot to wind people up here. Treating everyone like idiots, doggedly refusing to listen, and insulting even those who are patiently trying to help you and be pleasant and encouraging is a good way to do it.


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## everydayupsanddowns

This thread has drifted from its original purpose and no longer seems constructive, so I am going to close it.

@AnnSebastian please do feel free to start another thread to discuss your experiences with Libre, to ask any questions that arise, and to benefit from the experiences of forum members, many of whom have been using Libre for many years.


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## AnnSebastian

everydayupsanddowns said:


> I was reminded of a thread that we used to have as a ‘sticky’ penned by our old Admin @Northerner - and it felt like a timely reminder today.
> 
> If you can be anything, be kind.
> 
> Many people who come here may be using a forum for the first time, and often that can leave them unprepared if they encounter responses to their posts that they may find jarring or unsympathetic. Like any group of people anywhere, members are very diverse in character, and it's often not easy to spot nuances in language and presentation through text-only messages - there are no visual clues, or aural ones, so you just have to go on content and any prior experience of a particular person's writing style to determine if they are 'joking' or not. It's an age-old problem, and the chances of misinterpreting things are generally higher the greater emotional state the person reading may be.​​Because of this I would like to ask that members bear these facts in mind, in posting, reading and responding - try and always put yourself in the other person's shoes, and if it conjures up any doubts about what you want to say, and how, then try and think of how you might reword things.​​Remember always that this is a support forum and by that very fact people posting may be nervous, frightened, confused - or of course, confident, no-nonsense and brash. As I said, it takes all sorts, but try always to be first and foremost supportive  Above all, no personal insults or inflammatory statements - nothing wrong with rational, passionate debate, but not directed at individuals, such posts will be removed by the moderators. ​​If you find that you don't like a particular member's style then I would urge you to use the 'Ignore' option on your profile settings: you can input member names and then no longer see content from that member.​​Hope this helps! ​​NB See also: *Courtesy guidelines, and forum rules*​



Mike 

Closed thread. 

With the greatest respect to yourself and members who have commented on this thread - 

I’ve only started using this forum recently and was a little overwhelmed by some of the comments.

People learn in different ways.  Most read the rules and then follow that path. A minority of people don’t. 

I’m pretty well educated, but  I struggle to focus on details for long periods.   

It was hard work to concentrate on the practical elements enough to get started with the Libre and the log books. But once I had that - I’m pretty quick with concepts and the graphs made sense to me in minutes.  I would not have had the patience to sit through long videos. 

I’m sure there will be other people with similar traits. My posts were aimed more at ‘people like me’ who ‘approach learning differently.’ If I had followed all of the advice from some of your popular members before I tried it, I probably would have given up before I started.

I just needed to say this so I really hope it won’t be deleted. It is not written ‘with prejudice’ just intended to promote ‘inclusion’ 

Ann


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## everydayupsanddowns

Ann I have moved your post to the conclusion of the closed thread (where it will make sense).

I hope you feel able to continue to use the forum, share your experiences, ask questions you have, and listen to the advice and suggestions from others on the forum too.


----------

