# Fried Eggs or Poached Eggs



## ianbilly (Dec 2, 2016)

I've always been a cereal man for breakfast, now i have to change. Not a fan of scrambled eggs but if i did a fried egg without oil or butter or fat would that be ok? Poached eggs are another i could try. I'm newly diagnosed T2 and trying to find my way diet wise. Thanks all


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## grovesy (Dec 2, 2016)

I use a none stick frying pan, a couple of sprays of the spray oil to do mine.


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## ianbilly (Dec 2, 2016)

grovesy said:


> I use a none stick frying pan, a couple of sprays of the spray oil to do mine.


Great, thats fine thanks grovesy. Gives me a couple of options there.


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## Stitch147 (Dec 2, 2016)

I'm the same, use a good non stick pan and spray oil.


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## DeusXM (Dec 2, 2016)

Why would you be cutting down on fat? You have diabetes, so the difficulty is carb intake, not fat intake.


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## ianbilly (Dec 2, 2016)

DeusXM said:


> Why would you be cutting down on fat? You have diabetes, so the difficulty is carb intake, not fat intake.


I was told by someone not to cook eggs in butter or fat, this is my problem getting conflicting advice from everywhere. In my introduction in the newbie section i said how confused i am sorting whats good and not. I'm newly diagnosed and still finding my way, its a bit bewildering after 56 years of eating & drinking whatever i wanted!


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## grovesy (Dec 2, 2016)

ianbilly said:


> I was told by someone not to cook eggs in butter or fat, this is my problem getting conflicting advice from everywhere. In my introduction in the newbie section i said how confused i am sorting whats good and not. I'm newly diagnosed and still finding my way, its a bit bewildering after 56 years of eating & drinking whatever i wanted!


The evidence for eating or reducing fat has recently become questioned, and some even say the evidence that lead to recommendations being introduced many years, does not live up to current scrutiny. 
Do what ever your comfortably with, and suits your tastes.


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## Ljc (Dec 2, 2016)

Hi Ianbilly. Yes it is confusing their are two schools of thought re fats their is also a lot of conflicting info out there re what we diabetics should -should not eat. Personally I do not do LCHF (low carb high fat)  I have never been afraid of fat nor will I buy things that are not naturally low fat, I prefer the full fat versions. I have cut down a lot on carbs.
As Grovesy says , " do whatever you're comfy with and what suits your taste" .
After all,  we have diabetes for life so we should do what is sustainable for us to manage our condition.
If you have a glucose meter, you will soon learn what carbs your body tolerates well, because another confusing thing about Diabetes is we are all different in what our bodies can tolerate, for instance my body likes porridge others have to steer well clear of it because they shoot up into double figures.


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## Lilian (Dec 2, 2016)

I have found that whatever you do, the combination of high carbs and high fat is the killer, which unfortunately some of the tastiest meals are.    So really it would be poached egg on toast, or a fried egg in butter, but not a fried egg on toast


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## Lilian (Dec 2, 2016)

PS low carb and low fat is also not practical as it will just end up as low calorie.  OK in itself but not sustainable because you get hungry more.    At least with low carb higher good fats you don't get so hungry.     Remember fat does not need insulin and diabetes is to do with insulin requirement.    The body can burn two fuels, either carbohydrates or fats.   If you choose your fuel to be fat, it will mean your requirement for insulin is lower.    However if you are fat burning, as soon as you have a bit too much carbohydrates it will revert to carbohydrate (sugar) burning and your insulin requirement will go up.   One must also consider whether one needs to lose weight or not.   At one time (I do not know if it is the current thinking) some in the medical profession thought it was a waste of time teaching new older diabetics about eating differently because if they had eaten a certain way all their lives they were not going to be able to change.     It is easier if everyone round you is also eating lower carbs and you have to be extremely strong to sit there eating Turkey and sprouts whilst everyone else is tucking into stuffing, roast potatoes, roast parsnips etc.   Putting aside all the other aspects (e.g. weight etc)  lowering fats and still eating high carbs might be good generally (although that is a matter of opinion) it means a person with diabetes will have to take more medication and all that it involves.    I think if a person knows how the body works they can make up their own mind easier than just listening to people say this that and the other is better or not and they are better equipped to make up their own mind as to what they want to do.


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## ianbilly (Dec 2, 2016)

Lilian said:


> PS low carb and low fat is also not practical as it will just end up as low calorie.  OK in itself but not sustainable because you get hungry more.    At least with low carb higher good fats you don't get so hungry.     Remember fat does not need insulin and diabetes is to do with insulin requirement.    The body can burn two fuels, either carbohydrates or fats.   If you choose your fuel to be fat, it will mean your requirement for insulin is lower.    However if you are fat burning, as soon as you have a bit too much carbohydrates it will revert to carbohydrate (sugar) burning and your insulin requirement will go up.   One must also consider whether one needs to lose weight or not.   At one time (I do not know if it is the current thinking) some in the medical profession thought it was a waste of time teaching new older diabetics about eating differently because if they had eaten a certain way all their lives they were not going to be able to change.     It is easier if everyone round you is also eating lower carbs and you have to be extremely strong to sit there eating Turkey and sprouts whilst everyone else is tucking into stuffing, roast potatoes, roast parsnips etc.   Putting aside all the other aspects (e.g. weight etc)  lowering fats and still eating high carbs might be good generally (although that is a matter of opinion) it means a person with diabetes will have to take more medication and all that it involves.    I think if a person knows how the body works they can make up their own mind easier than just listening to people say this that and the other is better or not and they are better equipped to make up their own mind as to what they want to do.



My weight , blood pressure etc are all fine, my GP just said i need to cut down on carbs, sugars and eat more protein. I also need to lower my cholesterol and was prescribed a statin for that.


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## Martin Canty (Dec 2, 2016)

Lowering the carbs should help the cholesterol.... As others have said, I would not fear the fat, but use healthy fats & avoid corn & vegetable oils


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## Dave W (Dec 4, 2016)

Eggs are virtualy zero carbs whatever way they are prepared. Here's a synopsis of the CoFID ( 2015 Composition of Foods Dataset) data:
Eggs fried in sunflower oil - Carbs, trace: Fat, 15.7: Sat Fat, 3.35
Eggs fried no fat        -         Carbs, trace: Fat 11.4: Sat Fat, 3.2
Eggs Poached           -         Carbs, trace: Fat 10.6: Sat Fat 3.00

Poached seems marginally better, but I personally don't think the differences are all that significant, but am quite prepared to be told I'm wrong as I'm still learning. However in my case I enjoy a decent breakfast of eggs, bacon and tomatoes and or mushrooms fried in olive oil as it doesn't push up my BG the way that all the cereals I've tried have done.


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## Ditto (Dec 4, 2016)

I use olive oil and Dr A says 'sensible use of butter.' Plus it's winter, you need fat to keep you warm. Doesn't do the Inuits any harm does it? They eat tons of fat or did.


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## Dave W (Dec 4, 2016)

Just noticed your comment regarding reducing cholesterol ianbilly, so here's the cholesterol data for cooking eggs and it's quite surprising as frying in oil seems to produce the lowest CHO levels.
Eggs fried in oil - CHO 371
Eggs fried no fat - CHO 445
Eggs Poached - CHO 423


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## DeusXM (Dec 4, 2016)

True, but it's worth noting there is no connection between dietary cholesterol and blood cholesterol.


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## Dave W (Dec 4, 2016)

DeusXM said:


> True, but it's worth noting there is no connection between dietary cholesterol and blood cholesterol.


I didn't know that, so does it mean that if I'm needing to reduce my blood cholesterol, my cholesterol intake doesn't factor?


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## Northerner (Dec 5, 2016)

Dave W said:


> I didn't know that, so does it mean that if I'm needing to reduce my blood cholesterol, my cholesterol intake doesn't factor?


The vast majority of cholesterol is manufactured by the liver - statins work by restricting the liver's ability to make it, which is why they should be regarded as very powerful drugs. Cholesterol is necessary for life - it helps form the myelin sheath that protects every cell in the body  I believe dietary cholesterol influences around 20% of your total cholesterol, 80% from liver, but there's also research that suggests the balance is naturally adjusted by the liver to maintain a certain level in healthy individuals i.e. if you increase dietary cholesterol then the liver dips its production, so no overall benefit/harm from what you eat  I think that plant sterols (like those in Flora and other products) can help reduce cholesterol levels by up to 10%. Worth reading The Great Cholesterol Con for a good understanding of the issue


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## DeusXM (Dec 5, 2016)

The other thing to bear in mind is that the speed at which your liver produces cholesterol is determined by how much insulin is in your blood. The more insulin you have going round, the more cholesterol your liver makes. As a T2, you are likely to be insulin resistant, which means your body produces a lot of insulin but it is not effective at reducing your blood sugar. Therefore, when you eat foods that raise your blood sugar (carbohydrates), your pancreas produces loads of insulin, which then causes your liver to produce more cholesterol.

The way statins work is they interrupt the effect of insulin on the liver, so less cholesterol is produced.

Follow this to the natural conclusion and it should be clear that your cholesterol level  could potentially be reduced simply by eating fewer carbohydrates.


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## ChrisSamsDad (Dec 5, 2016)

ianbilly said:


> My weight , blood pressure etc are all fine, my GP just said i need to cut down on carbs, sugars and eat more protein. I also need to lower my cholesterol and was prescribed a statin for that.


The trouble with too much protein without fat is that your body will start to turn the protein into glucose - it would rather burn fat if it's there. The important thing to remember is that you'll have to eat less volume - fat is roughly double the calories per gram of carbs, happily it doesn't take that much fat to make a meal much tastier - 10g of fat in mayonnaise or dressing will transform a dreary salad for instance, A plate of cauliflower on it's own is tedious, but with cheese sauce - hallelujah!

Having read up on statins - one of the side effects is *diabetes* for instance, and the slim chance they'll actually do any good, compared to the drastic way in which they work,the complete lack of understanding of GPs as how the various cholesterol levels work I decided to give up taking them. Eating low carbs and a reasonable amount of fat has brought my balance into much better numbers. 

The real key to managing your own blood sugar levels is getting and learning how to use a meter - you might be lucky and be able to get one on prescription, but even if you have to buy one yourself, it's worth it to understand what's going on inside and see your improvements.


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## Martin Canty (Dec 5, 2016)

Dave W said:


> Eggs fried in sunflower oil - Carbs, trace: Fat, 15.7: Sat Fat, 3.35


Sunflower oil is off the menu for me (not considered a good fat), I'd rather fry my eggs in butter


Ditto said:


> Doesn't do the Inuits any harm does it? They eat tons of fat or did


Incidence of Heart disease & diabetes has increased significantly in the Inuit populations since they adopted a more western diet


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## grovesy (Dec 5, 2016)

Martin Canty said:


> Sunflower oil is off the menu for me (not considered a good fat), I'd rather fry my eggs in butter
> 
> Incidence of Heart disease & diabetes has increased significantly in the Inuit populations since they adopted a more western diet



My understanding is that all native populations around the world having adopted so called western eating habits are have higher levels of Diabetes.


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## Dave W (Dec 5, 2016)

Ditto said:


> I use olive oil and Dr A says 'sensible use of butter.' Plus it's winter, you need fat to keep you warm. Doesn't do the Inuits any harm does it? They eat tons of fat or did.


We use olive oil for the majority of cooking and as salad dressing. We bring a couple of litres of local extra-virgin back from Greece twice a year and once we've got through that have to revert to Tesco stuff. There was a good item on the BBC "Trust Me I'm a Doctor," a few months ago purporting to show the general health benefits of olive oil versa other veg oils.


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## HOBIE (Dec 5, 2016)

Have both not at the same time


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## HOBIE (Dec 5, 2016)

Dave W said:


> We use olive oil for the majority of cooking and as salad dressing. We bring a couple of litres of local extra-virgin back from Greece twice a year and once we've got through that have to revert to Tesco stuff. There was a good item on the BBC "Trust Me I'm a Doctor," a few months ago purporting to show the general health benefits of olive oil versa other veg oils.


I was involved in that program, did not bust the camera . cumin study & got put on the placebo


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## Martin Canty (Dec 5, 2016)

Dave W said:


> We use olive oil for the majority of cooking and as salad dressing


In my pantry we have (all extra virgin & organic), Olive, Avocado & Coconut.... For Animal fats we have Pork Lard, Duck fat & organic Ghee along with the grass fed (organic if possible) butter.

There is still some vegetable oil left but that's just used for seasoning my Wok.


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## trophywench (Dec 5, 2016)

ChrisSamsDad said:


> The trouble with too much protein without fat is that your body will start to turn the protein into glucose - it would rather burn fat if it's there.



No - almost the opposite.  If one is in the position where one's body actually needs insulin to turn either protein or fat to glucose, in comparison to carbs, we are advised to start by trying to count protein as 50% of what it would need for carbs, but only 10% to cover the fat.

So if I use 1u of insulin to deal with 10g carbs - for 10g of protein I would need 0.5u and for 10g of fat I would need 0.1u of insulin.

As it happens - my body doesn't and I can only assume that's because I eat adequate carbs virtually every day for it to make enough glucose to keep me going without having to resort to using my protein or fat for energy.  I eat between 80g and 110g carbs a day - which is precisely how much I ate daily anyway before diagnosis and I'd previously settled on that amount as the amount I had found I could happily eat without putting on weight.

That hasn't really changed in the last 44+ years - if I consistently eat less I lose weight - if I consistently eat more - I definitely gain it !  I'm in the second category at the mo so I've promised meself to cut down 'after Xmas' LOL - otherwise I'll definitely have very little to wear - again![/QUOTE]


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## ianbilly (Dec 6, 2016)

Finally managed to get hold of some Burgen Soya & Linseed Bread. Its ok , now i have some thing to dip into my yolk with my Breakfast eggs!!!, Cheers all for the suggestion.


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## ChrisSamsDad (Dec 6, 2016)

ianbilly said:


> Finally managed to get hold of some Burgen Soya & Linseed Bread. Its ok , now i have some thing to dip into my yolk with my Breakfast eggs!!!, Cheers all for the suggestion.


Tesco now do a 'high protein' loaf, it's only 80p and it's only 10g per slice - and it tastes like proper bread!!


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## ChrisSamsDad (Dec 6, 2016)

trophywench said:


> No - almost the opposite.  If one is in the position where one's body actually needs insulin to turn either protein or fat to glucose, in comparison to carbs, we are advised to start by trying to count protein as 50% of what it would need for carbs, but only 10% to cover the fat.
> 
> So if I use 1u of insulin to deal with 10g carbs - for 10g of protein I would need 0.5u and for 10g of fat I would need 0.1u of insulin.
> 
> ...


My reply was to a type 2, and I don't think he's on insulin yet. Insulin doesn't turn fat or protein, or carbohydrate into Glucose by the way. Insulin does a number of other things, including telling your liver to temporarily stop producing glucose and moves glucose into various cells. For a type 2, eating carbs will stimulate insulin production if they can make it, it's just less effective, so it won't stop your liver producing it or it won't clear out the glucose into the cells fast enough. Eating fat doesn't stimulate this insulin, but eating low-carb high protein will mean that your body just switches into nucleogenesis and turns the protein into glucose, which will then both stimulate insulin and raise your blood sugar.

By the way, between 80 and 110g of carbs per day IS a low carb diet. That's around 300-400kcal so you can't be surviving on carbs for energy until you weigh about 6 stone and don't move at all. You must be getting the calories from somewhere else.


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## trophywench (Dec 6, 2016)

Well obviously I'm getting other calories from protein and fat, exactly as one should since I eat a fully balanced and totally normal diet (blue top milk, butter, cheese, meat, veg, fruit) that anyone my size and shape with my metabolism  (without special dietary requirements or athletic necessities otherwise) might eat.

Always been sedentary - participation in sport wasn't encouraged by our parents.  It was not what THEY wanted us to do.  Certainly people who worked with their hands didn't have 'proper' jobs and were obviously far less intelligent than those who had proper jobs in offices.  Even typing wasn't a proper job - maybe being secretary might have been - as long as you learned and were speedy and proficient at Pitman's - but not for their daughters ......  I found I had quite a lot to learn about a) the Real World and b) Real People, as I got older ...... hopefully I have!  (even the Police Force and Fire Service - the main requirement was brawn, not brain as far as mama led us to believe.  Oh and OF COURSE the whole of the Medical Profession are Saints and should therefore be a) Worshipped unconditionally and b) Believed totally since they were naturally, created as Completely Infallible.

If I ever wanted or needed to eat a LOW carb diet - which I do not - I would need to cut down quite a bit on the 100g.  If I EVER ate more than this amount - by age 66 I'd be like the side of a ruddy house and would most probably have dropped dead from morbid obesity long since!

I did eat a fair bit more at one time, but when I got to 11st something, could hardly fit into size 16 and my inner thighs were often red raw from the fat rubbing together - I cut out all the crap again and went back down to a 12 again.  I'm at *least* a stone overweight right now (euphemism for being about 2 st overweight) and outgrowing the 14s, hence I need to buckle down again and become sensible again LOL (but of course, NEVER boring LOL)

Incidentally I have shrunk from 5ft 3 and a half to 5ft 3 over the last few years and though I still have about a mile and a half to 'pinch' on my belly (rather than 'an inch'), you are still in danger of getting a painful jab from my pelvic bones or my ankle or wrist ones since they all still stick out the same as they always have.


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## ChrisSamsDad (Dec 6, 2016)

trophywench said:


> Well obviously I'm getting other calories from protein and fat, exactly as one should since I eat a fully balanced and totally normal diet (blue top milk, butter, cheese, meat, veg, fruit) that anyone my size and shape with my metabolism  (without special dietary requirements or athletic necessities otherwise) might eat.
> 
> Always been sedentary - participation in sport wasn't encouraged by our parents.  It was not what THEY wanted us to do.  Certainly people who worked with their hands didn't have 'proper' jobs and were obviously far less intelligent than those who had proper jobs in offices.  Even typing wasn't a proper job - maybe being secretary might have been - as long as you learned and were speedy and proficient at Pitman's - but not for their daughters ......  I found I had quite a lot to learn about a) the Real World and b) Real People, as I got older ...... hopefully I have!  (even the Police Force and Fire Service - the main requirement was brawn, not brain as far as mama led us to believe.  Oh and OF COURSE the whole of the Medical Profession are Saints and should therefore be a) Worshipped unconditionally and b) Believed totally since they were naturally, created as Completely Infallible.
> 
> ...



You're lucky - I've shrunk from 6ft 5.5in to 6ft 3in. On the plus side I don't usually bang my head on doorframes any more. Also I've gone to several pant sizes - from 36/38in to 34in in about July this year, at which point I had to buy new suits and jeans. Now I'm down to about a 30/32in waist and all those new pants don't fit. Still to translate a great Dutch word - that's a 'luxury problem' (Luxeprobleem). I also fit in a size 12 dress, but that was just the once for a fancy dress event at a music festival (honestly).


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## trophywench (Dec 6, 2016)

And I used to fit 32" waist jeans - cos that really is equivalent to Ladies size 12 !  (30" is more a 10)  I'm happy to purchase any amount of new smaller clothes, but totally resent needing to spend hard-earned on bigger ones.  And even sulk if I need to.  LOL


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## Mark Parrott (Dec 7, 2016)

ChrisSamsDad said:


> Tesco now do a 'high protein' loaf, it's only 80p and it's only 10g per slice - and it tastes like proper bread!!


I tried the warburton's high protein bread & my BG went higher than I was happy with.  Might be worth trying Tesco's instead.  Lidl do a low GI cob loaf which I can handle fine.


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## Gerrie DS (Dec 10, 2016)

butter!! definitely!  the low fat thing is a total myth based on a 1953 study in america.  the evidence is still to filter through to the mainstream.  The only thing about frying is that you do diminish some of the good omegas apparently, but hey ho it's better than a plate of Carbicide cereal i'd say!!


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## john pardo (Dec 12, 2016)

Fried egg with Flora spray oil


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## Wirrallass (Feb 2, 2017)

ianbilly said:


> I've always been a cereal man for breakfast, now i have to change. Not a fan of scrambled eggs but if i did a fried egg without oil or butter or fat would that be ok? Poached eggs are another i could try. I'm newly diagnosed T2 and trying to find my way diet wise. Thanks all


Personally Ian i prefer poached scrambled or boiled eggs. I don't fry anything in fat as I'm keeping an eye on my cholesterol levels, they were a tad above an acceptable level at last blood test. If anything, I use cold pressed rapeseed oil for cooking & baking. Suits me but not everyone is the same. Take care


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## Wirrallass (Feb 2, 2017)

OMG! So much to take in its giving me a headache! My little ol brain is having problems digesting all the above information. I'm going back to bed for a couple of hours kip, haven't slept ...yet again! Take care all.


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## Gerrie DS (Feb 2, 2017)

ianbilly said:


> I've always been a cereal man for breakfast, now i have to change. Not a fan of scrambled eggs but if i did a fried egg without oil or butter or fat would that be ok? Poached eggs are another i could try. I'm newly diagnosed T2 and trying to find my way diet wise. Thanks all



Long post alert!  Sorry
My understanding is that when you fry eggs the omega 3 is partially or completely destroyed. So it's not about the fat you add to fry. Only the best and wildest eggs have high omegas. Wee hens fed with flax seeds are good .  Happy ones. Processed Cereals are ' Carbacide' lol imho. And you need omegas for the cell walls to take in the insulin

Statin industry is serious stuff. Lots of schools of thought on those. They may lower your cholesterol but if you are inflamed inside by eating the wrong stuff then you are still in trouble. That's when the chol sticks to the inflamed vessels to try and heal.  I'm sure there are lots of folk on here who know a lot more about that.  
There are other more risky factors that can be generic that dictate how you handle fats in the body so I am taking a risk by declining them perhaps but I think the evidence is there. 
The whole cholesterol and heart disease is built on fallacious research in 1953 when Acel Keys lied about the results of his so called study re chol and cardiac mortality. It suited the uS government  and food industry at the time!

There is a lot of genuine research evidence to say that too low cholesterol shortens life by 10 years. 
So I am not a doctor but I read piles of research papers even though am a retired public health bod.  Keeps me out of mischief... Sometimes. #type2ladiesdetectiveagency
#aConstantChallenge


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## Lilian (Feb 3, 2017)

Another thing that influences cholesterol is your thyroid.    If your thyroid is on the sluggish side your cholesterol will rise.


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## Wirrallass (Feb 3, 2017)

@Lilian That's an interesting point. Glad i read this thread. I suffer with hypothyroidism & take Levothyroxine. I've not long had bloods for thyroid, results were satisfactory. I think I'm due for more bloods in a few weeks time including thyroid & cholesterol. I hope those results will be favourable too. Take care


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## Vicsetter (Feb 3, 2017)

Just to get this thread more on track: You need very very little oil to fry an egg. A lot of people almost deep fry them.  A drop of oil in the pan, add in the egg, a small splash of water to the side and cover (either a splash guard or glass lid) and cook gently until done.  The water will produce steam and poach the yolk from above, don't have so much oil you end up basting the egg.
P.S. You shouldn't use virgin olive oil for cooking, it carries quite a strong flavour and is more expensive than ordinary olive oil.


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## Lilian (Feb 3, 2017)

Vicsetter said:


> P.S. You shouldn't use virgin olive oil for cooking, it carries quite a strong flavour and is more expensive than ordinary olive oil.


The reason you should not cook with olive oil too hot is that it changes the molecules and becomes a trans fat.     The best to cook with are coconut oil, lard/dripping or clarified butter (ghee) if using high heat as they do not become trans fats at high heat.     A monounsaturate is better than a polyunsaturate.


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## Wirrallass (Feb 3, 2017)

Whatever I am cooking I always use cold pressed grapeseed oil.

Type2 since April 2016


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## Vicsetter (Feb 3, 2017)

Lilian said:


> The reason you should not cook with olive oil too hot is that it changes the molecules and becomes a trans fat.     The best to cook with are coconut oil, lard/dripping or clarified butter (ghee) if using high heat as they do not become trans fats at high heat.     A monounsaturate is better than a polyunsaturate.


That is an old myth.  Virgin olive oil has a smoke point of over 210 degrees and you shouldn't be shallow frying that high. Similarly you wont change olive oil into trans fat.  
BTW it takes only 70 degrees centigrade to denature an egg, it will take quite a while to fully cook at this temp, but can be done (you need to make sure it has been pasteurised).  It takes 45minutes to cook an egg in its shell in a water bath at 65.5 degrees (sous vide),it takes 13/15 minutes at 75 degrees.


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## robert@fm (Feb 3, 2017)

For deep-frying I use rapeseed oil, it seems to withstand this usage better than cheap anonymous "vegetable" oil. Strange how the urban myths about "canola" (it's the same stuff as rapeseed oil but in American English instead of British) being to blame for everything short of nuclear war don't seem to have much currency in Europe. 

For making my own salad dressings (see the Food/Carb Queries section) I of course use olive oil.


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