# Hypo ? after evening meal



## Sutherland53 (Dec 10, 2020)

Can anyone please advise on the following, recently diagnosed with Type 2, about 2 months ago, prescribed Sukkarto 500 once daily. I normally take it with my evening meal and was having no problems, recently however I’ve been falling into a very, very deep sleep unintentionally, after my meal which is very worrisome, is this hypo? or can anybody offer an explanation. 
Many thanks


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## Drummer (Dec 10, 2020)

What is a typical evening meal for you?


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## Docb (Dec 10, 2020)

Hi @Sutherland53.  

Doubt if falling asleep after your meal is anything to do with a hypo.  Your body is very good at preventing hypos and as a general rule you need to have excess insulin in your system to get one.  It's a perennial problem for T1's because they inject insulin and need to take care that they do not inject too much, and it is theoretically possible to go hypo if you are taking a class of drugs that stimulate your pancreas to produce more insulin.  Metformin, which is in Sukkarto 500, is not in that class so it will not induce a hypo.

I put my dropping off in the evening down to age - and I feel much better after it!  If it is worrying you then speak to your GP to make sure there is nothing else going on.


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 10, 2020)

Hi Docb, thanks for your response, it’s a relief to hear that it’s not a hypo ! being new to diabetes I have little knowledge and I just wondered why falling asleep, which is unusual for me was suddenly occurring, I am 72 now so perhaps a good meal, evening darkness, after a busy day would encourage sleep!!


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 10, 2020)

Drummer said:


> What is a typical evening meal for you?


Hi Drummer, I’ve been eating a fair diet of late, as recommended!! I normally have red meat, two veg and potato’s followed by a small sweet, then the next day I might have egg/bacon with bread/butter and generally alternate like that. I have 2 slices of whole meal toast in the morning, a sandwich of 2 slices of bread/filling around 2pm then tea time meal about 6 o clock.


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## Drummer (Dec 10, 2020)

Ah - if I are that I would be hyper, and asleep.
Bread is not a good choice, nor potatoes. Four slices of bread would exceed my total daily intake, and I am more insulin resistant in the mornings anyway.
Can you check your blood glucose levels?
Getting a meter which is cheap to run helped me a lot to determine both want to eat and when.


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## Bruce Stephens (Dec 10, 2020)

Since it's new and surprising to you, it's probably worth mentioning next time you see your GP (or other healthcare person) but I suspect there's nothing wrong. As others have said, a hypo is unlikely; hyper is a bit more likely and that can also make one feel sleepy.


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 10, 2020)

Hi Bruce thanks for that response, I didn’t realise that hyper could also make you sleepy as well  I don’t really eat much in the day so I’m supposing a big evening meal would cause a spike, add to that the fact that I love my carbs, potatoes and bread especially, and I’ll sneak a mini chocolate roll when passing through the kitchen!! I keep saying that I’ll stop buying those


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 10, 2020)

Drummer said:


> Ah - if I are that I would be hyper, and asleep.
> Bread is not a good choice, nor potatoes. Four slices of bread would exceed my total daily intake, and I am more insulin resistant in the mornings anyway.
> Can you check your blood glucose levels?
> Getting a meter which is cheap to run helped me a lot to determine both want to eat and when.


Hi Drummer I’ve always been a carb lover, a carboholic you might say and find it difficult to resist bread or potato although I have cut out the chips!! but I’ve been looking for some dietary advice that doesn’t involve foreign foods if possible and it’s so confusing trying to make a meal I can’t even spell!! bangers and mash appeals much more. If you have any recommendations for dietary recipes I’d be very interested


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## grovesy (Dec 10, 2020)

I personally find that I tolerate carbs better in the middle of the day than in the evening.


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## Drummer (Dec 10, 2020)

I buy low carb sausages - the Coop ones seem to be the best if they are fresh. Try cauliflower mash - you might well need to squash it a bit to press out the water before mashing it with cream. Swede and celeriac as also low carb options, but if you like a stir fry then sausages can be cooked with mushrooms, sweet pepper, courgette slices, etc, or you can get stir fry mixes frozen - I go to Lidl for mine. There are three variations, two are lower than the third, and they are easy to cook and tasty. They are labelled in foreign terms  but they seem quite ordinary ingredients to me. 
People have reacted well to my suggestion of cauliflower cheese - steam some cauliflower, place it in a warm dish, cover with cream cheese, sprinkle on anything herby or spicy you might fancy, cover with grated hard cheese, I like Red Leicester, maybe top with a blue cheese if you like it, then place in the warm oven and wait for it to become melty and just tinged with gold - then wait for it to cool down a bit before eating.
When I roast a chicken or a joint I cut slices of swede and put it in the tray then roast the bird on a rack over the top of it. The taste and texture of the swede is much improved as it slowly submerges in the drippings. Works with other meat too.
Low carb cooking is not complicated, in fact I think it is simpler than a lot of modern stuff.


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## Paulbreen (Dec 10, 2020)

Hi Sutherland53 It sounds like that’s a Hyper, You are like me, a potato lover, but you really need to take care of that especially as a T2 
I would have 100g of potato in what ever style 4 evening meals per week, that’s around 20-25 grams of carbs depending how you cook them.
The bread is not helping you either, a slice of wholemeal bread is around 18-20 grams of depending on the brand. 
you don’t have to cut the carbs out completely but you really need to reduce them heavily.


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 10, 2020)

grovesy said:


> I personally find that I tolerate carbs better in the middle of the day than in the evening.


Thanks Grovesy, I’ll try to get my carbs in the afternoon before my evening meal.


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 10, 2020)

Paulbreen said:


> Hi Sutherland53 It sounds like that’s a Hyper, You are like me, a potato lover, but you really need to take care of that especially as a T2
> I would have 100g of potato in what ever style 4 evening meals per week, that’s around 20-25 grams of carbs depending how you cook them.
> The bread is not helping you either, a slice of wholemeal bread is around 18-20 grams of depending on the brand.
> you don’t have to cut the carbs out completely but you really need to reduce them heavily.


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 10, 2020)

Thanks for that info Paul it’s a real help, I thought that by switching to brown or seeded bread would be healthy, never realised the amount in them  I need to take a long hard look at my carbs intake and make some definate changes


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 10, 2020)

Drummer said:


> I buy low carb sausages - the Coop ones seem to be the best if they are fresh. Try cauliflower mash - you might well need to squash it a bit to press out the water before mashing it with cream. Swede and celeriac as also low carb options, but if you like a stir fry then sausages can be cooked with mushrooms, sweet pepper, courgette slices, etc, or you can get stir fry mixes frozen - I go to Lidl for mine. There are three variations, two are lower than the third, and they are easy to cook and tasty. They are labelled in foreign terms  but they seem quite ordinary ingredients to me.
> People have reacted well to my suggestion of cauliflower cheese - steam some cauliflower, place it in a warm dish, cover with cream cheese, sprinkle on anything herby or spicy you might fancy, cover with grated hard cheese, I like Red Leicester, maybe top with a blue cheese if you like it, then place in the warm oven and wait for it to become melty and just tinged with gold - then wait for it to cool down a bit before eating.
> When I roast a chicken or a joint I cut slices of swede and put it in the tray then roast the bird on a rack over the top of it. The taste and texture of the swede is much improved as it slowly submerges in the drippings. Works with other meat too.
> Low carb cooking is not complicated, in fact I think it is simpler than a lot of modern stuff.


Brilliant Drummer thank you!! gonna give that cauliflower a definite try, sounds wonderful!!


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## Drummer (Dec 10, 2020)

I just thought of another thing you might try.
Slice cabbage into discs about an inch thick and arrange on a tray, one each. Drizzle on some olive oil and then sprinkle lightly with black pepper, cook at a medium heat until softened. Serve as a base for meat - bacon or sausage, maybe with fried egg on top, or mince, steak or chop.


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 10, 2020)

Drummer said:


> I just thought of another thing you might try.
> Slice cabbage into discs about an inch thick and arrange on a tray, one each. Drizzle on some olive oil and then sprinkle lightly with black pepper, cook at a medium heat until softened. Serve as a base for meat - bacon or sausage, maybe with fried egg on top, or mince, steak or chop.


Now that’s a definite one to try !! I love white cabbage and I’ve never thought about using it like that Drummer especially the fried egg on top !! thank you does how you cook food, fry, grill, etc make any difference to your levels ?


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## Bruce Stephens (Dec 10, 2020)

Sutherland53 said:


> thank you does how you cook food, fry, grill, etc make any difference to your levels ?


I believe not much. (There's an exception with at least some carbohydrates (rice, pasta, potatoes are usually mentioned): if you cook them, then allow them to cool, then (optionally) reheat them, then some of the starch becomes more resistant to digestion.)


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## Drummer (Dec 10, 2020)

Sutherland53 said:


> Now that’s a definite one to try !! I love white cabbage and I’ve never thought about using it like that Drummer especially the fried egg on top !! thank you does how you cook food, fry, grill, etc make any difference to your levels ?


I don't think so - we can cope with fats and proteins so the only thing I grill is cheese on toast for himself, and that is in the halogen oven. 
Actually - the way I make scrambled egg, with a bit of butter in the wok, is probably higher fat than frying them - as the butter is absorbed but the frying fat isn't. 
The foods which can supposedly become resistant starch don't feature in my menus at all. I did do one experiment which showed no difference for me, but my gut is very efficient. I don't eat many peas or beans as I get results which seem to show I get twice the carbohydrate value from a given weight.


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## Bruce Stephens (Dec 10, 2020)

Drummer said:


> The foods which can supposedly become resistant starch don't feature in my menus at all.


I've never bothered testing it carefully enough that I could see if it does anything for me.

I do sometimes cook, cool, and reheat, but mostly for convenience (so I can easily get everything hot at the same time).


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## Paulbreen (Dec 10, 2020)

Sutherland53 said:


> Thanks for that info Paul it’s a real help, I thought that by switching to brown or seeded bread would be healthy, never realised the amount in them  I need to take a long hard look at my carbs intake and make some definate changes


If your tech savvy and have a smart phone download the carbs and Cals app, it tells you everything about your meals especially the dreaded carbs by portion size, if not get the book by the same name does the same but you have to do a bit of calculating, it would be a good Xmas gift suggestion if anyone asks you what you want for xmas


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## rebrascora (Dec 10, 2020)

As others have said, it sounds like a hyper not a hypo. Hypos usually wake you up and your heart is racing because it triggers adrenaline to be released. Hypers when your BG is high make you fatigued and want to sleep. Hypers are usually caused by eating more carbs than your body can handle.

Do you know what your HbA1c result was at diagnosis? This is usually a number of 48 or over but can be as high as 3 figures if things are really bad. Knowing that number gives us an idea of where you are on the diabetes scale and is a starting point for your journey with diabetes.

On a day to day basis, you might find it helpful to purchase a BG meter and test your BG (Blood Glucose) levels to see what they are doing when you feel sleepy like that. It is also an extremely useful tool to help you figure out which foods cause you the most problems and need to be avoided and which you can get away with. So some people can get away with the odd slice of wholemeal bread/toast whilst others have found that it sends their BG into orbit and all bread is best avoided or special low carb alternatives purchased and used sparingly. Same with potatoes. Some people can manage a roastie or two or half a dozen chips but a jacket potato or mashed potato is a no go. Mashed potato is sometimes not much different to eating sugar when it comes to releasing glucose into the blood stream with some people. The cauliflower mash suggested tastes great. I drain it well and then mash with a good dollop of full fat cream cheese and a teaspoon of wholegrain mustard and it goes great with high meat content sausages.... be aware that cheap sausages are a mixture of meat and rusk, which is mostly carbohydrate from grains, so that will also contribute to how high your BG levels go after eating them and combined with potato mash can act like rocket fuel for your BG levels. Essentially all carbohydrates are broken down into glucose by the digestive system and absorbed into the blood stream, so you need to start looking at food labels for the carbohydrate content which will be in very small print on the back or side of packaging. It will also say "of which sugars" but all you need to know is the toptal carb value so ignore the sugars bit.

If you are interested in getting a Blood Glucose meter and testing your levels at home, they are relatively inexpensive to buy at approx. £15 for a basic kit but you need to buy extra consumable items as the kit only comes with 10 lancets and test strips, which you use iup very quickly. It is therefore cost effective to buy a meter which has the cheapest test strips and for that reason people here on the forum find the SD Gluco Navii or the Spirit healthcare Tee2 are the most economical and reliable to operate. The test strips are £8 for a pot of 50 whereas some other meters can be double or even triple that...... Anyway, just something to think about if you are interested in monitoring your BG levels and using that information to work out which foods your body can handle and which are putting your health at risk. 

If you are a chocoholic, try to go for high cocoa content dark chocolate. Minimum 70% cocoa solids and just have one small square as a special treat. I tend to have it with a spoonful of crunchy peanut butter to make it go further and be more satisfying. 

Anyway, hope some of that helps and you are reassured that you are not having a hypo.


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## NotWorriedAtAll (Dec 10, 2020)

If you enjoy cooking then you may find my Facebook page - linked in my signature here - could give you some very delicious, satisfying and enjoyable very low carb suggestions so you can enjoy your meals by making some swaps that much reduce your carb intake.  I am on a keto regime of 20 -25g of carb a day and I have desserts and bread as often as I like because I make my own from low carb and high fibre and fat ingredients.

Worth a look anyway just in case anything turns out to be useful for you.


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 11, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> As others have said, it sounds like a hyper not a hypo. Hypos usually wake you up and your heart is racing because it triggers adrenaline to be released. Hypers when your BG is high make you fatigued and want to sleep. Hypers are usually caused by eating more carbs than your body can handle.
> 
> Do you know what your HbA1c result was at diagnosis? This is usually a number of 48 or over but can be as high as 3 figures if things are really bad. Knowing that number gives us an idea of where you are on the diabetes scale and is a starting point for your journey with diabetes.
> 
> ...


Good morning rebrascora many, many thanks for your interesting and informative post  I can now start aiming for certain targets given the excellent advise given yesterday and today, I’ll certainly send for the Tee2 monitor my Hb1 recorded in November was 56, that’s when I started on Sukkarto, review expected in February next year .  Never been offered any follow up advice etc from my GP


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 11, 2020)

NotWorriedAtAll said:


> If you enjoy cooking then you may find my Facebook page - linked in my signature here - could give you some very delicious, satisfying and enjoyable very low carb suggestions so you can enjoy your meals by making some swaps that much reduce your carb intake.  I am on a keto regime of 20 -25g of carb a day and I have desserts and bread as often as I like because I make my own from low carb and high fibre and fat ingredients.
> 
> Worth a look anyway just in case anything turns out to be useful for you.


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 11, 2020)

Thank you I’ll certainly visit your Facebook page, especially because I’ve always been a bread fiend and the thought of not having bread is awful but you might have saved the day!!


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 11, 2020)

Paulbreen said:


> If your tech savvy and have a smart phone download the carbs and Cals app, it tells you everything about your meals especially the dreaded carbs by portion size, if not get the book by the same name does the same but you have to do a bit of calculating, it would be a good Xmas gift suggestion if anyone asks you what you want for xmas


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 11, 2020)

Good morning Paulbreen, thanks for the info, I’m going to get one of my sons to buy me Spirit Healthcare Tee 2 monitor as a Crimble prezzy as suggested by rebrascora in her recent post  the advice coming my way is brilliant, it’s really comforting to see I’m not alone and gives me aims and targets instead of worries ! by the way yesterday I only had my usual 2 rounds of seeded bread and butter until about 5.30 and then had a slim well microwave Tikka Masala with Pilau rice, and I felt a bit sleepy afterwards but nowhere near the terrible crashing out of it like I have been suffering!! perhaps yourself and Rebrascora have hit the nail on the head by highlighting Carb overload at tea time !


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## Paulbreen (Dec 11, 2020)

Sutherland53 said:


> Good morning Paulbreen, thanks for the info, I’m going to get one of my sons to buy me Spirit Healthcare Tee 2 monitor as a Crimble prezzy as suggested by rebrascora in her recent post  the advice coming my way is brilliant, it’s really comforting to see I’m not alone and gives me aims and targets instead of worries ! by the way yesterday I only had my usual 2 rounds of seeded bread and butter until about 5.30 and then had a slim well microwave Tikka Masala with Pilau rice, and I felt a bit sleepy afterwards but nowhere near the terrible crashing out of it like I have been suffering!! perhaps yourself and Rebrascora have hit the nail on the head by highlighting Carb overload at tea time !


Fingers crossed and the BG monitor will be a great help for you, don’t forget test before you eat and again 2 hours later and your aiming to be only 2-3 higher after the 2 hours, if your more than that = too many carbs in the meal. Once you start monitoring it’s useful to make a diary for each meal, it will help you pinpoint how t manage your foods
BG Before
List of food in the meal and carb content if you can work it out
BG After 2 Hours
It seems a pain but really worth while and it’s great to bring along when you see a diabetic nurse, they will be able to give you tips 
All that said looks like your starting in the right direction and I wish you the best of luck on your new journey


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## rebrascora (Dec 11, 2020)

Hi again.
Great that your family are going to get you a BG meter for Christmas. You will get through a lot of test strips and lancets in the first few weeks so it might be worth mentioning to them that buying a couple of extra pots of test strips and a box of lancets with the meter would be a good idea to keep you going. The 10 strips in the meter kit usually only last a couple of days by the time you waste a few figuring out how to operate it. I bought myself a special BG monitoring device with my birthday money and it was the best present I could have been given... after all what is more important than your health.... and having the confidence to know what is going on so that you can take control of it makes a huge difference compared to wondering if you are eating the right things and then finding out 3 months or 6 months later when you get a blood test, that you got it wrong.

Unfortunately your Slim Well ready meal was likely not a great choice either. Slimming foods are usually low fat and low fat foods usually have extra carbohydrates added in the form of sugars and starches to improve the texture and flavour because the natural fat/oil has been stripped back. Rice is also a high carb food and I would imagine it was probably white rice which will release it's glucose quite quickly.... hence you were still sleepy, even if not as bad as the previous night and of course not having lunch will have helped your levels to come down before your evening meal sent them back up again.
Most of us diabetics go for the normal fat or even creamy versions of things (yoghurt milk etc) because the fat helps to stabilise our BG levels, keeps us from feeling hungry and provides slow release energy but eating more fat has to be combined with eating less carbs otherwise you just put on weight. I have double cream in my morning coffee instead of milk because it is lower carb (milk contains a small amount of carbs in the form of lactose)  
I appreciate that you have probably been told to lose weight or follow a low fat diet by health care professionals but eating more fat and a lot less carbs is an easier and more sustainable way to lose weight for many of us. There is a lot of misinformation about fat and many of us find we are a whole lot slimmer, fitter and healthier by eating it and it often happens that cholesterol levels reduce despite eating more fat.... providing you eat less carbs. The thing I find amazing is that I just don't feel hungry anymore like I used to and I eat so much less than I did. The difference now is that I buy quality, mostly basic ingredients and cook from scratch. 

Just so you don't get the idea that food is going to be unenjoyable. I had a fillet steak last night, fried in lamb fat (done rare) and I had that with a large plate of salad (mixed lettuce leaves, 3 cherry tomatoes and cucumber) and a big dollop of cheese coleslaw (not low fat but a creamy one). I am on a low budget but it was in the "reduced for quick sale" section and it took 4 mins to cook.... Can't get much faster food than that! The fat and protein are slower to digest so they keep you feeling full for longer but they don't spike your Blood Glucose levels and therefore don't put you to sleep.... on the other hand, the shot of rum (no carbs in spirits) I had with my bedtime hot chocolate may have helped me to sleep!


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## NotWorriedAtAll (Dec 11, 2020)

Sutherland53 said:


> Thank you I’ll certainly visit your Facebook page, especially because I’ve always been a bread fiend and the thought of not having bread is awful but you might have saved the day!!


If you don't already have one - I recommend getting a bread machine.  Often relatives have one gathering dust you can commandeer and I started out with one I inherited from my father that he bought in the 80s or 90s and it was okay while I worked out whether I would want a more sophisticated model - in the end I bought a very basic model for around fifty quid from Amazon and it has made life even easier.  It is all well and good making bread by hand when the bread is an occasional treat but if the bread is going to become an everyday staple then a bread machine (especially one that has a dough cycle so you can make individual rolls and freeze them for convenience and/or make pizza bases that you can freeze) makes things less of a faff.


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 11, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> Hi again.
> Great that your family are going to get you a BG meter for Christmas. You will get through a lot of test strips and lancets in the first few weeks so it might be worth mentioning to them that buying a couple of extra pots of test strips and a box of lancets with the meter would be a good idea to keep you going. The 10 strips in the meter kit usually only last a couple of days by the time you waste a few figuring out how to operate it. I bought myself a special BG monitoring device with my birthday money and it was the best present I could have been given... after all what is more important than your health.... and having the confidence to know what is going on so that you can take control of it makes a huge difference compared to wondering if you are eating the right things and then finding out 3 months or 6 months later when you get a blood test, that you got it wrong.
> 
> Unfortunately your Slim Well ready meal was likely not a great choice either. Slimming foods are usually low fat and low fat foods usually have extra carbohydrates added in the form of sugars and starches to improve the texture and flavour because the natural fat/oil has been stripped back. Rice is also a high carb food and I would imagine it was probably white rice which will release it's glucose quite quickly.... hence you were still sleepy, even if not as bad as the previous night and of course not having lunch will have helped your levels to come down before your evening meal sent them back up again.
> ...





rebrascora said:


> Hi again.
> Great that your family are going to get you a BG meter for Christmas. You will get through a lot of test strips and lancets in the first few weeks so it might be worth mentioning to them that buying a couple of extra pots of test strips and a box of lancets with the meter would be a good idea to keep you going. The 10 strips in the meter kit usually only last a couple of days by the time you waste a few figuring out how to operate it. I bought myself a special BG monitoring device with my birthday money and it was the best present I could have been given... after all what is more important than your health.... and having the confidence to know what is going on so that you can take control of it makes a huge difference compared to wondering if you are eating the right things and then finding out 3 months or 6 months later when you get a blood test, that you got it wrong.
> 
> Unfortunately your Slim Well ready meal was likely not a great choice either. Slimming foods are usually low fat and low fat foods usually have extra carbohydrates added in the form of sugars and starches to improve the texture and flavour because the natural fat/oil has been stripped back. Rice is also a high carb food and I would imagine it was probably white rice which will release it's glucose quite quickly.... hence you were still sleepy, even if not as bad as the previous night and of course not having lunch will have helped your levels to come down before your evening meal sent them back up again.
> ...


Brilliant advice  love the sound of your meal and I would never have thought about putting cream in my morning coffee cos every one says that’s bad !! I’ll definitely be having a coffee with that


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## NotWorriedAtAll (Dec 11, 2020)

Sutherland53 said:


> Brilliant advice  love the sound of your meal and I would never have thought about putting cream in my morning coffee cos every one says that’s bad !! I’ll definitely be having a coffee with that


Be careful with increasing your fat intake.  It is a brilliant way to improve your blood levels but taking in lots of fat will only improve your health if you are also vastly decreasing your carbs at the same time.  If you increase your fats a lot without reducing your carbs hugely - all you will do is increase the fat swooshing around in your system and that can have bad results.  If you reset your system to metabolise fats for energy instead of carbs by making fats your main fuel then you should find your blood sugars stabilise and your liver function and blood pressure starts improving too.
If you are still relying on carbs for your main fuel (by eating 'normal' bread and potatoes and starchy foods like wholemeal rice and pasta and lots of fruit and fruit juices) then eating more fat might be problematic. 

These days I eat loads of double cream, high fat cheese (cheddar and others are zero carbs) butter, eggs, fatty cuts of meat, bacon, cakes (made with keto friendly sweeteners and keto friendly 'flours' like coconut and almond flour and fibres like psyllium husk and chia seeds and eggs) and keto recipe bread and very very sparingly I eat blackberries (3 or 4 at a time) raspberries and strawberries (I think of them as garnishes and as nature's candies) and very sparingly 100% cocoa chocolate and I drink decaff black tea and coffee and water. For veg I eat green string beans, cabbage, brussels sprouts, cucumber, small amounts of sweet peppers, cauliflower, celeriac, small amounts of onions and I use herbs and spices in my cooking.

I don't go near, potatoes, rice of any sort, canned beans, ready meals etc.
I hope this is helpful information.


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 11, 2020)

That information has saved me a lot of searching thank you  I’ve just jotted down all your info, especially the one about the rum! being an ex Navy man it’s one of life’s little pleasures  looks like my shopping basket will be taking on a whole different look from now on  thanks for taking the time to get the advice to me


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 20, 2020)

Sutherland53 said:


> Brilliant advice  love the sound of your meal and I would never have thought about putting cream in my morning coffee cos every one says that’s bad !! I’ll definitely be having a coffee with that


Hi Rebrascora hope you are well, I’ve been given the Spirit Tee 2 by one of my sons for Christmas, we gave it a try yesterday and my reading was bang on  it was 8.2 before dinner and 9.1 after dinner which I thought was pretty good  come today I was9.1 before dinner and I’m just waiting for 8.30 pm to take my after dinner reading I really can’t work out why the reading yesterday was so good and yet today it’s quite a bit higher  have you any thoughts on it ? any advice would be welcome.


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## trophywench (Dec 20, 2020)

Well, what has your BG been the rest of the day?  Cos it's everything you do or don't do, as well as eat or not eat generally, that affects your BG result.  They don't occur in isolation!

No two days are ever precisely the same, so neither will anyone's BG.  If the difference was between 5.0 and 25.0 then I'd say wash your hands and test again - but we always have to take into consideration that meters can be 15% either way out - so a result of 9.1 could be as high as 10.5 or as low as 7.8 - soooo, those 2 readings are near enough not be in the slightest worrying.


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## rebrascora (Dec 20, 2020)

Hi
Good to hear you got a meter and have started testing. What you need to be aware of is that firstly the meters are not really accurate to a decimal place... non of them are. There is an allowed error factor of 15% so the meter is just there to give you a guide not a really definitive reading. You are looking to avoid large differences between before and 2 hrs after readings rather than what the actual readings are, particularly in these early days when you are just starting to take control of your levels.
Secondly, BG levels vary quite dramatically throughout the day and night even for non diabetic people. There are up to 42 different factors which can influence your BG levels, some of which you have control over, others you haven't. The most influential factor is what you eat, but exercise (even exercise you did yesterday or the day before can impact your current levels), stress, medication, how well you slept, hormones, ambient temperature, length of daylight, illness or injury...
So whilst 8.2 and 9.1 are both higher than your would eventually like, you are really just looking to see if the 2 hours after reading is less than 3 whole mmols higher. Yesterday's meal looks like it worked out great for you because the increase was only 0.9 which is brilliant.... what did you have out of interest?


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 21, 2020)

Hi Rebrascora, thanks for the response, I had a roasted chicken leg, white steamed cabbage and 2 leeks, half container of Aldi carrot and swede mash and sneaked a chocolate mini roll in as a cheeky treat  it’s yesterday’s numbers which are as different again! pre dinner 11.4 post dinner 8.9 after taking Sukkarto with the meal so I don’t know what went wrong itthere except I was busy the other day so I didn’t eat much at all except for 2slices of toast with butter, brown bread  before my dinner yesterday was 2 poached eggs for breakfast, 2egg mayonnaise sandwich’s on brown bread at lunch and then a home made chicken Korma with cauliflower rice and a small plain Nan, I never realised that the meter reading could swing about as much and is really a guide, we’ll wait and see what today brings !! stay safe


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## rebrascora (Dec 21, 2020)

The Metformin doesn't really have a direct impact on your readings like that. It takes time to build up in your system and has a slow long term effect over days and weeks rather than an hour or two after taking a tablet.




Sutherland53 said:


> except I was busy the other day so I didn’t eat much at all except for 2slices of toast with butter, brown bread before my dinner


Are you saying you had 2 slices of brown bread toast before your dinner yesterday? If so, how long before. If it was within 2-4 hours, then your pre and post meal readings were a waste of time because the carbs from the toast will totally compromise the test... which is why your pre meal reading was so high at 11.4. 
If you are hungry whilst you are waiting for a meal to be ready, try a boiled egg (always worth keeping a few boiled eggs in the fridge as snacks to fill you up when you get the munchies with a spoon of mayonnaise or have a chunk of cheese which are pretty much carb free rather than a carb rich food like bread. 
Apologies if I have misunderstood and the 2 slices of toast were at lunchtime and there was no bread or toast eaten before dinner.

It does look like you are eating rather a lot of bread still. It really doesn't make that much difference to your diabetes whether it is brown, white or skyblue pink, the carbs in it turn to glucose in your digestive system. Wholemeal is healthier for your digestive tract because it contains more fibre, but bread is a high carb food which will raise your BG levels and therefore adversely affect your diabetes. 
Not saying not to eat bread at all, but limiting your intake is important.... Maybe just one or two pieces of bread per day  and look out for lower carb options like Livlife. Maybe ration yourself to just 2 pieces of bread a day like one slice of wholemeal and a pitta or naan, or two slices of wholemeal and no pitta or naan, but  not at the same meal and see how your body copes with that.
You mention two poached eggs at breakfast. Did you have toast or bread with those too... or just the eggs? Maybe have on a bed of spinach instead of toast or have an omelette with a salad with coleslaw... I find I miss bread less if I don't have a runny yolk that needs soaking up, so an omelette works well.
Are you testing pre and post meal for your breakfast and lunch to see the effects of the bread in your sandwich? 

As regards your BG levels varying. Non-diabetic people also have a constantly changing Blood Glucose profile and someone recently posted the graph of a non-diabetic fit active marathon runner which was plotted using data from a sensor which measures glucose levels every few minutes over the full 24 hour period and the results show how much of a constant battle is going on in the body to keep levels within quite a broad range. 

I will see if I can find it and post it....


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## rebrascora (Dec 21, 2020)

Here we go... the link showing the trace of the ultra marathon runner's BG levels, who is not diabetic...
Flat lining – Diabetes Psychology Matters


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 21, 2020)

Hi Rebrascora, brilliant info, I really must try harder with reducing my bread intake, I love bread and do find it difficult to avoid. I’ve bought some low carb bread but it’s quite rubbery and not as filling obviously. The toast I mentioned earlier was eaten at breakfast so it wouldn’t have impacted on my BG levels when I did my pre dinner reading I would have thought


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 21, 2020)

Got your info about flat lining, that’s very interesting stuff isn’t it and just proves that there are so many variations which affect BG levels


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## rebrascora (Dec 21, 2020)

Ok, the other thing to make sure of is that your finger is clean when you test. Just a bit of fruit juice or maybe even onion juice if you were chopping onions or tomatoes etc prior to testing or a smear from a glass or jar you picked up can compromise a reading and make it higher. Just trying to make a bit of sense of your high pre meal reading, but anomalies do happen quite often which is why you look more for trends than worry about individual readings. 
I used to love bread too, but surprisingly I don't miss it now other than as a carrier for other food and even so, you find ways around that until you don't really notice any more. 

Your chicken dinner the other day was obviously a great choice.... I am going to ignore the mention of a chocolate roll at the end.... Once in a while is OK but try to remember that high carb treats should be for special occasions not daily.  

Diabetes is a funny condition because a lot of the time you don't feel ill but changes can be happening behind the scenes which can have quite a sudden and dramatic impact on your life, like loss of sight and neuropathy etc. It is a bit of a lottery as to who will suffer these associated conditions but improving your Blood Glucose control will certainly lessen the risk and so that is what we all work towards.


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 21, 2020)

Thanks so much for that Rebrascora, it’s a bit of a weird beast diabetes isn’t it  I’ve got no choccy rolls left so I’ll avoid that shopper isle in future!! I had a retinology test done about 3 months ago which shows no probs, yet !! have a great evening and once again thanks for the info


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## rebrascora (Dec 21, 2020)

I find it is important to have treats but just choose them wisely and find ones which don't spike your levels. For me having plenty of nice cheese and pots of olives and I have a stash of bars of dark 70+% cocoa solids that I can have half a square with a spoon of peanut butter when I need a chocolate hit which won't adversely affect my BG levels and isn't moreish, or my guilty pleasure... a packet of pork scratchings.... all fat and protein but no carbs. 
Again though, these are special treats not every day choices..... well except for the cheese. It is rare a day goes by when I don't have cheese in some form or other!


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 21, 2020)

Lol  I like a good white Cheshire cheese, cut into cubes for a snack, maybe with a spoon or two of creamy coleslaw, or quite simply ham or beef from the deli, must have more protein if I can,


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## trophywench (Dec 21, 2020)

There's nothing all that weird about diabetes and diet - every single one of us is intolerant of starchy carbs.  Yes you did well by substituting the cauli for rice - but then practically wrecked that really good effort by having a Naan - a Naan BREAD.  Just remind me, what goes in bread that might contain carbs ?  Ruddy FLOUR !   Not a single one of our bodies cares a jot whether it's wholegrain, white, green, yellow cum pink with blue spots - it simply does exactly the same with the carbohydrate in it and converts it all to Glucose.

Any thing on earth which contains flour automatically contains starchy carbs.  The flours made from nuts eg almond flour (aka ground almonds) or coconut flour, have less carb than the flours from grain eg wheat flour or corn flour, but still have carb so still need watching but not totally avoided wherever possible.


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 21, 2020)

Hi trophywench, thank you for the warning on bread of any size shape or colour! as a lifelong bread lover it will take me a little while and an awful amount of willpower but I’ll get there ! I’m learning more every day with the guidance from forum members, many thanks for your post.


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 22, 2020)

Sutherland53 said:


> Lol  I like a good white Cheshire cheese, cut into cubes for a snack, maybe with a spoon or two of creamy coleslaw, or quite simply ham or beef from the deli, must have more protein if I can,


Hi Rebrascora, just to keep you in the loop, yesterday’s BG reading was 6.1 pre dinner and 7.5 post dinner ☺️ better result than the previous day !! onwards and forward !!


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## rebrascora (Dec 22, 2020)

Excellent result there. Well done! I also read on another post that you have lost nearly a stone in 3 weeks which is absolutely brilliant! Keep up the good work!


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 22, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> Excellent result there. Well done! I also read on another post that you have lost nearly a stone in 3 weeks which is absolutely brilliant! Keep up the good work!


Thanks so much Rebrascora, it’s becoming so much easier and the rough seas ahead are much calmer  I’ve just had my dinner and my BG reading before hand was 5.7  hoping it’s ok after 2 hours ! I had bacon, grilled, 2 eggs and a good portion of fried mushrooms, something like 0.3 gems of carbs ☺️ I’ll keep you in the loop and pick your brain’s if I may !!


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## rebrascora (Dec 22, 2020)

That is a good meal carbs wise but it is also important to incorporate plenty of fibre into your diet when you are eating low carb .... so for me I would have shredded some savoy cabbage and cooked it in the microwave with a knob of butter for 3 mins and had that with the bacon eggs and mushrooms as it goes really well with those foods. It adds a few more carbs but more importantly fibre. 
Alternatively or as well as, you can use a fibre supplement. I use both psyllium husk and chia seeds and I have a teaspoon of each in a glass of water on a morning with a dash of either balsamic vinegar or Apple Cider Vinegar to give it a bit of flavour and acidity. I drink it down when the fibre starts to go a bit gelatinous and follow it with a glass of water. That helps keep the digestive system regular and working well because when you cut carbs, particularly bread, you also cut a lot of fibre from your diet which means you can end up constipated. Fibre is also good for heart health I believe and since you are eating more fat, it is a good idea to add in extra fibre for that benefit. Salad leaves and any green veg will also provide good fibre, so do look to include that whenever you can. Coleslaw is of course also made with cabbage so if you are not keen on greens in other ways, have a dollop of coleslaw with your bacon and eggs or have salad with it and coleslaw.

Psyllium husk and chia seeds are available in some supermarkets and also health food stores or can be purchased online. They don't really taste of anything much, so not unpleasant. I tend to have my glass of water with fibre and a dash of vinegar as soon as I get up followed by a second glass of water and then my coffee with cream and then my breakfast which is usually Creamy Greek yoghurt with 3 heaped teaspoons of defrosted summer berries, a dessert spoon of mixed seeds (again a good source of fibre) and a sprinkle of low carb granola (I use the Eat Natural Protein Granola which is 34g carbs per 100g and I only have about 20g of it at most which is about 6-7g carbs, plus the berries and yoghurt takes the total up to about 15-20g carbs) I then don't usually have lunch as that keeps me going until dinner time, or I might have a salad at lunchtime with cheese coleslaw and then meat or fish with veg on an evening...

Anyway, just a bit more info for you to consider.
Congrats on your reading in the 5s... Is that your first 5? Great result!


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 22, 2020)

Thanks Rebrascora that’s something I really must look at because yes I’m finding myself constipated so once again you’ve hit the nail on the head !! I’m a little unsure about the breakfast drink ☺️ I’ve never thought or bought any of the seeds etc that you mentioned ☺️ I do like coleslaw and I love white cabbage but never in a month of Sundays thought about putting it with bacon/eggs! I’ve got to start thinking out of the box haven’t I  the pre dinner readings for today are the lowest I’ve recorded and is big shift from 9.1 a couple of days ago so fingers crossed ☺️ I recognised that I needed to loose weight too and I have been just by eating low carb, started at 15.5 stone and now 14.2 target weight is 13.5 but I seem to plateau at 14.2 
take care and again thanks


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## rebrascora (Dec 22, 2020)

As regards fibre supplements and seeds, the psyllium husk is the same stuff that is in Fibogel which the doctors often prescribe to older patients to improve bowel movement... again that is something that you make into a drink, but the Fibogel is flavoured and probably sweetened so you are better with plain psyllium. I have been using it off and on for the past 20 years ish. 
When I cut bread out of my diet (I almost always ate wholemeal pre diagnosis) I did get really constipated because of the loss of all that roughage and bulk. It trook quite a while to find the best solution and we have had discussions on the forum because it is a common problem. My current regime with the chia seeds and psyllium together is just brilliant and you feel so much better for having regular, easy, well formed daily movement. (Sorry too much info, but gut and bowel health is as important as anything else.  
Seeds are an important source of nutrients and fibre when you follow a low carb/higher fat way of eating, so worth looking at how you can incorporate them if you don't fancy drinking them soaked in water. Chia seeds have one of the highest levels of Omega 3 fatty acids of any food stuff, so they are a bit of a super food. You can add them to soups and stews or to fruit (berries) to thicken up the juice. Really good stuff.


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 22, 2020)

Hi Rebrascora, sounds like I’ll be mixing stuff up in the kitchen other than sausage and chips ! I will definitely give it a good try thanks again for a very informative post ☺️ I’m sure Morrison’s now supply the things I’ll need, if not I’ll take a trip to Holland and Barrett or Amazon ☺️ My BG reading after dinner was 6.3 by the way, quite pleased with that


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## rebrascora (Dec 22, 2020)

Another fantastic result. Well done. 
Sounds like you are really starting to get the hang of it and realising that there are other compensations with this diet for the things which you previously liked but your body will no longer tolerate. I still really love my coffee with cream on a morning. It is just such a luxury that you can't feel hard done by when you start the day like that and I am currently having a gin and low cal bitter lemon with some blue stilton and olives.... so I really can't complain!


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## trophywench (Dec 22, 2020)

Hee hee!  Nice new bottle of Bombay Sapphire awaits us two, only needing the enhancement of the also waiting low cal tonic to be savoured.


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## rebrascora (Dec 22, 2020)

I ran out of low cal tonic last night which is why I am now on bitter lemon. Sadly I am not on Bombay Sapphire at the moment either as I have had to tighten the purse strings a bit recently but regardless I am still enjoying my gin and mixer the last few nights!


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 22, 2020)

Can anyone join the party  have a really good night cap it’ll help you sleep better


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## rebrascora (Dec 23, 2020)

Sutherland53 said:


> Can anyone join the party  have a really good night cap it’ll help you sleep better


Well it is the festive season, so if you can't party now, when can you! 

Just to be clear, spirits are pretty much carb free but beer and cider quite high carb. A glass of red or dry white wine shouldn't have much impact on BG levels either. I have been naughty recently and treated myself to the odd glass of port which is higher than red wine but not as high carb as beer. Delicious with a chunk of nice cheese though. Currently an extra mature Somerset crunchy Vintage cheddar with an apple because my BG levels are too low to go to bed.... not had an apple for ages!! Really enjoying my little party here for one


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## ColinUK (Dec 23, 2020)

Sutherland53 said:


> Thanks Grovesy, I’ll try to get my carbs in the afternoon before my evening meal.


I’d try not to cram in all the carbs you’re used to eating but rather reduce then. 
Cut down the bread and potatoes and cut out the sweet treats completely. 

Also invest in a blood glucose monitor and start treating yourself so that you can build a better understanding of how what you eat impacts your blood glucose levels.


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## ColinUK (Dec 23, 2020)

Sutherland53 said:


> Can anyone join the party  have a really good night cap it’ll help you sleep better


Alcohol doesn’t give you the right kind of sleep and prolongs your cravings for carbs.


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## Sutherland53 (Dec 23, 2020)

Hi Rebrascora , tonight’s figures are
Pre dinner 5.6, post dinner 8.0 that seems ok to me  any thoughts!


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## Sutherland53 (Jan 16, 2021)

Hi Rebrascora hope you had a good Christmas  did you enjoyed the festivite drinks like me !’just a quick question if you can help  for a few weeks now my Bg has been 6.2 before my evening meal and 6.5 afterwards with rarely any deviation, should I regard this as my normal levels and try to stick to what I’m doing? weight is stuck on 14 stone though


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## rebrascora (Jan 16, 2021)

Hello again and Happy New Year.

Those pre and post meal readings are both good. If you wanted to try to lower them further you might need to look at what you are eating at breakfast and lunch and what your readings are then.... You only seem to have provided evening meal readings throughout this thread, but just wondering what your readings are like at other times of day and the sort of things you are eating for breakfast and lunch now. 
If you are still eating too many carbs (like bread) during the day, particularly if you are incorporating more fat, like coffee with cream and cheese and obviously alcohol is empty calories, so whilst the odd drink over the festive period was nice, it shouldn't be a nightly treat as that will all slow/halt the weight loss. It is a balance between cutting enough carbs to make your body burn fat and how much fat you consume. 
You can also increase your exercise levels to help weight loss. A good brisk daily walk or cycle or swim (chance would be a fine thing!) is as helpful as anything, if you can incorporate a hill into your walk or cycle as you get fitter that really helps. I live at the bottom of a mile long hill and it is pretty steep so I power walk up that hill every day and jog back down sometimes twice. It really is great exercise.

Hope that all makes sense. I feel like I have told you you can have more fat and alcohol in previous posts and now saying cut back on them but it is about balance and particularly if you want to lose weight you need to be more circumspect and then look to increase those treats a bit once you reach your target weight to stabilize it. But you do need to keep the carbs under control throughout the day and since you don't mention other meals it makes me wonder what you are eating then.

I should say a big congratulations though on your greatly improved BG readings and current weight loss. Those are fantastic achievements in themselves.... but always room for a little more progress. You do have to find a life balance though and not get too obsessive.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Jan 18, 2021)

Sutherland53 said:


> just a quick question if you can help for a few weeks now my Bg has been 6.2 before my evening meal and 6.5 afterwards with rarely any deviation, should I regard this as my normal levels and try to stick to what I’m doing?


Sounds like you are doing really well @Sutherland53 - congratulations!


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## Sutherland53 (Jan 18, 2021)

Hi Rebrascora hope your well, thanks for the advice  I’ve started to take more readings today as you suggested, my, my what a shock !! Pre breakfast 8.2 post breakfast 12 !!! looks like my usual breakfast of 2 rounds of toast with butter , ( seeded bread) will be going out the window and 2 boiled eggs will be coming in !! I was quite surprised at the post breakfast reading, in fact I was annoyed because I thought I was keeping things under control more or less when viewing the evening meal figures  so it seems that there’s still work to do !!! any of your excellent guidance would be more than welcome. On the subject of exercising I used to be really fit and played every sport you can think of and was good at them, of course I ate and drank like your typical male !!! Bread, curries, chips with everything!! my wife who died 6 years ago, used to tell me that every time she looked at me I had a slice of bread and butter in my hand !!! she was right because I must’ve been a real carboholic !!! until diagnosed with T2 recently. Unfortunately all that sport and running is now taking its toll on my right hip and knee so exercise is now limited which is annoying cause I love being active. What BG readings do you adhere to? I took the advice off the forum 4-7 pre dinner and 8.5 or less than 10 post dinner , I haven’t got any breakfast or other times acceptable readings, it would be good to know what my targets will be  many, many thanks for your help Rebrascora it really is appreciated.


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## trophywench (Jan 18, 2021)

4 - 7 before and no more than 2.8 more, 2 -sh hours afterwards, is the target for every meal not just dinner!


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## Sutherland53 (Jan 18, 2021)

Hiya Trophywench, thank you for that! I expected you to reprimand me for allowing bread to pass my lips !! rest assured I only have it at breakfast and now I’m changing tack on that  cheers ! by the way gin is good for you


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## rebrascora (Jan 18, 2021)

We are not here to judge or tell people off or tell them what they should or shouldn't eat, it is about advising people how to figure out which foods their body can tolerate and which it can't. We all have treats occasionally which we know will spike our levels. As Type 1 diabetics Jenny (trophywench) and myself can inject insulin to cover them. Most type 2 diabetics don't have that option so you either keep those naughty treats to once in a blue moon or reduce your intake of other carbs to allow you those odd treats and cut the portion size.... So try one slice of toast with some scrambled or poached eggs and see how you get on with that. If it is still too much, try half a slice. Normally I have creamy Greek natural yoghurt with berries and seeds but this morning I had a full cooked breakfast of sausage (95% meat content) bacon, black pudding... (contains some carbs but was a special treat as I do love it) an egg from one of my hens with fried onion, mushrooms and savoy cabbage... no bread or other carbs apart from the barley in the black pudding.... it was yum and I haven't needed anything else to eat all day and I have been pretty active.... Here it is for a bit of inspiration... 

Just because we are diabetic, doesn't mean we can't eat well... just have to choose the right things


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## Sutherland53 (Jan 18, 2021)

rebrascora said:


> We are not here to judge or tell people off or tell them what they should or shouldn't eat, it is about advising people how to figure out which foods their body can tolerate and which it can't. We all have treats occasionally which we know will spike our levels. As Type 1 diabetics Jenny (trophywench) and myself can inject insulin to cover them. Most type 2 diabetics don't have that option so you either keep those naughty treats to once in a blue moon or reduce your intake of other carbs to allow you those odd treats and cut the portion size.... So try one slice of toast with some scrambled or poached eggs and see how you get on with that. If it is still too much, try half a slice. Normally I have creamy Greek natural yoghurt with berries and seeds but this morning I had a full cooked breakfast of sausage (95% meat content) bacon, black pudding... (contains some carbs but was a special treat as I do love it) an egg from one of my hens with fried onion, mushrooms and savoy cabbage... no bread or other carbs apart from the barley in the black pudding.... it was yum and I haven't needed anything else to eat all day and I have been pretty active.... Here it is for a bit of inspiration...View attachment 15981
> 
> Just because we are diabetic, doesn't mean we can't eat well... just have to choose the right things


Well that looks a brilliant breakfast meal  I don’t think I would need anything else all day either if I had that  I’m really a one meal a day person, I’ll have my breakfast toast and then nothing else until tea time as a rule, if I’m peckish I usually have a few slices of deli meat, ham or whatever, I’ll give the scrambled egg on toast a try, never thought about scrambled eggs instead of boiled thanks, let’s take the morning readings for a few days and then see how we get on, my pre bed reading was 6.2 so to get an 8.2 reading before any food or drink was a bit disappointing and unexpected really  thanks again Rebrascora I’ll post the next few days results soon


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## rebrascora (Jan 18, 2021)

The increase in the morning reading is likely due to something called Dawn Phenomenon. It is believed to be a throwback to prehistoric days when we didn't have cupboards and fridges so breakfast had to be hunted down or foraged and energy was needed to fuel that so the liver developed a ritual of pumping out some extra glucose to help us start the day.


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## Sutherland53 (Jan 18, 2021)

Ooh that’s interesting Rebrascora  seems like diabetes has been around for a long time then!! I must have a word with this Dawn what’s her name!!!interesting that my pre dinner readings today was 5.4 !! wonder what it will be at around 9 ish, we’ll have to wait and see but I’ve only had rump steak, leeks, carrots and green beans which is a fairly reqular meal and it’s never spiked a reading, very interesting about the Dawn phenomenon though


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## Sutherland53 (Jan 22, 2021)

Hi @rebrascora, hope your well  a few readings as promised for you to  look at and give your opinion, I’ve list pre breakfast/post, pre dinner/post and bed,over the last 4 days so here we go ....,
Pre breakfast 7.2,7.3,8.0,6.9
Post breakfast 8.7,7.9,8.4,7.6

pre dinner 5.2, 6.3, 8.0, 7.0 6.3
Post.         6.2, 7.5, 8.2, 6.7 7.5

pre bed    6.2, 6.4, 5.4 6.1 ........,

hope you can work out my scales !
Obviously not entered tonight’s pre bed reading but they look fairly consistent don’t they  interesting spike halfway through the week, checked my diary and nothing really significant in my food intake to create it, I wasn’t eating fish/chips in bed!!!  I could eat a small portion of fish/chips but I’ve put them on my banned list  thanks for taking the time to look at those readings Rebrascora hope to hear from you soon.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Jan 25, 2021)

Sutherland53 said:


> Pre breakfast 7.2, 7.3, 8.0, 6.9
> Post breakfast 8.7, 7.9, 8.4, 7.6
> 
> pre dinner 5.2, 6.3, 8.0, 7.0, 6.3
> ...



Those look really good @Sutherland53 

The old T2 guidance used to be 4-7 before meals and no higher than 8.5 by 2hrs after. Forum members who check before and after eating generally aim for a rise of no more than 2-3mmol/L from the meal.

Your readings all seem to fall within that. And your rises from before to after seem to be generally around the 0.5-1.5 mark. Great stuff!


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## Sutherland53 (Mar 5, 2021)

Can anyone enlighten me as to why my BG goes down after a substantial meal, ie pre dinner 6.5 post dinner 5.6, just wondered


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## ColinUK (Mar 5, 2021)

Sutherland53 said:


> Can anyone enlighten me as to why my BG goes down after a substantial meal, ie pre dinner 6.5 post dinner 5.6, just wondered


How long after and what did you eat and drink?


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## Sutherland53 (Mar 5, 2021)

Hi Colin, I took my readings 2 hours after  my meal tonight, I had a home made Rigatoni made with low carb penne with cheese topping, I took my prescribed Sukkarto with the meal. I hadn’t eaten all day mind you because I had a busy day so only had 1boiled egg and a slice of buttered toast


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## ColinUK (Mar 5, 2021)

The sukkarto is just slow release metformin isn’t it? So that’s not going to have done anything. 
I really can’t say but I do know  that sometimes my post meal BG drops below the pre-meal level. Not by much and not that often but it does happen. Never been able to figure out why.


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## Sutherland53 (Mar 5, 2021)

Sounds very much like me Colin, it doesn’t happen often and is a complete turn around from where I used to be, I’ve been fairly stable with consistent readings of just above 6, for the past few weeks, strange isn’t it although I’ve not had any adverse affects from it. Thanks for your response Colin and if I can figure it out I’ll definitely be in touch


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## rebrascora (Mar 6, 2021)

Firstly, we are usually more sensitive to insulin on an evening so you are more likely to see this happen on an evening than after any other meal. Secondly, you say you had a busy day? Did that involve increased physical or mental activity as that can certainly cause a drop later in the day and thirdly, your pancreas had most of the day off if you didn't have lunch so was maybe keener to produce insulin in the evening in response to your food. 
If you had any alcohol with your evening meal, that can also cause a drop in BG levels. 
Whatever the cause, I would say it is a good sign that your body is starting to cope better.


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## Sutherland53 (Mar 6, 2021)

Hi Rebrascora lovely to hear from you, hope your keeping well and thank you once again for a very informative response, it certainly sums it all up. Yes I did have a busy day physically only stopping for coffee a couple of times until the evening and then I retrieved a fettuccine I had made and frozen and had that along with some parsnips fried in olive oil and butter. Felt fine physically, apart from a bit of tiredness, no headaches or anything so it just threw me out getting that reading! never expected to see that ! Back to 6.5 bedtime and 6.9 this morning pre breakfast so I’ve learned now to graze in future!! good to hear from you anyways and take care


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## NotWorriedAtAll (Mar 6, 2021)

If I eat something I shouldn't like a bag of chip shop chips or a piece of wheat bread with lots of butter then my blood sugar drops low to start with and then once the fat component of the meal is digested the carbs hit the bloodstream later and then my blood sugars climb and climb and I get a peak later.

But if I just test the half hour so so after eating it looks like I am getting great blood sugar readings.

To start with that fooled me into thinking I could get away with eating things like chips or bread and butter or roast potatoes with my meals.  I know better now.


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## Sutherland53 (Mar 6, 2021)

Many thanks for that insight ! I’ve been craving for some chip shop chips for ages and I was going to try some and take some readings but it seems I would’ve fallen into the trap !! now I know better! it doesn’t make the craving for fish/chips any easier but now I’ll regard it as a red flag food. I like the sound of your FB page cos I’ve been on a low carb diet which seems to be working out fine apart from the odd reading like this recent one but finding decent low carb menus driven by someone who’s experienced the pitfalls are as rare as hens teeth!! so I’ll be checking it out. Many thanks for the response and good luck with the poetry!


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## NotWorriedAtAll (Mar 6, 2021)

Sutherland53 said:


> Many thanks for that insight ! I’ve been craving for some chip shop chips for ages and I was going to try some and take some readings but it seems I would’ve fallen into the trap !! now I know better! it doesn’t make the craving for fish/chips any easier but now I’ll regard it as a red flag food. I like the sound of your FB page cos I’ve been on a low carb diet which seems to be working out fine apart from the odd reading like this recent one but finding decent low carb menus driven by someone who’s experienced the pitfalls are as rare as hens teeth!! so I’ll be checking it out. Many thanks for the response and good luck with the poetry!


I use celeriac (or keto chips made with almond flour or coconut flour) and bacon wrapped cod to deal with those cravings.
Celeriac is easiest.  Just cut them into french fry shapes - very thin sticks and shallow fry them in extra virgin olive oil. Or you can peel them very very thin and fry them to make crisps.  They go wonderfully crunchy and I prefer them to potato chips/crisps now.

I get frozen cod pieces and while still frozen wrap streaky bacon round them and then oven cook until the bacon is crispy and the cod is done.  You get that lovely crunch and the succulent cod texture.  You can make batter with almond flour but I prefer the bacon wrap cod as it is much easier and tastes nicer too.  I have Tesco cornichons (lowest carb content for gherkins) and cut up frozen french beans with it instead of mushy peas.  The picture shows celeriac chips and I have a little bit of Tesco no added sugar ketchup with it.


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## Sutherland53 (Mar 6, 2021)

That looks lovely!! that’s Sunday’s dinner sorted for me now !! off we go to buy the ingredients!! many thanks for that


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