# It all crept up on me!



## growman (Nov 28, 2019)

I've read that anorexics have a body image in the mind of being fat even when they're very thin. Well, I think I must have the opposite. The weight has just grown but I've been in denial. Anyway, long story short, suddenly I realise what a blob I've become and that the casual pre-diabetic the doctor mentioned has become type 2 diabetes.
I'm actually very ashamed and embarrassed that I've let myself go this far - a BMI of 43.7, HbA1c of 64 and the finger prick machine says over 8 when I get up. 
I'm 64 and would like to live long enough to spend my pension, so I've got serious and gone onto a very low calorie, low carb diet of around 1,000 a day. First week has gone well - BMI now 41.3. Big part of that was that I pulled my back which went into spasm - pain was like a dagger - so didn't eat for 2 two days. Not a fast, just wasn't hungry. 
Got to go back to the doctor next week - will discuss treatment with him but hoping I can reverse things. 
Oh, just to go the whole hog, I've given up smoking after 50 years as well. Not missing the carbs but I could kill for a ciggy at times. Good job I've given the makings and baccy away 
Hoping to get onto X-Pert Diabetes Course which they have here in Wales. 
Anyway, that's me revealing all under a nom-de-forum.


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## Drummer (Nov 28, 2019)

The good news is that you don't have to do low calorie, nor low fat either. If your problem is diabetes, then the problem is carbohydrates.
You might very well be told that you can eat brown carbs - soooo healthy - well - not for us type twos trying to keep normal blood glucose numbers they aren't.
What you can eat are meat, eggs fish seafood cheese and full fat yoghurts such as Greek - Lidl do a good one in large packs.
Also salads stuff and veges which are grown above ground - my limit is set at 10 percent carb content. I do stirfries with mushrooms, green sweet pepper, aubergine, courgette, a few green beans or bean sprouts - to eat with my chop or beef steak. 
I dropped down to the top end of normal Hba1c eating 50 gm of carbs a day which seemed to give enough room for a small serving of frozen berries with cream a couple of times a week. 
I only need to eat twice a day these days as I am not hungry at lunch time.


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## growman (Nov 28, 2019)

Thanks for that, Drummer.  I'm trying to hit two things really, being obese and being diabetic. Happily I'm doing OK on low calories but I do miss the carbs.. still, my wife is in control of the kitchen and she's a will of iron when it comes to my diet now.


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## Docb (Nov 28, 2019)

Hi growman.  Congratulations on coming out of denial and getting to grips with things.  Get your weight down, by whatever method suits you, and chances are that your blood glucose will get back to normal.  On top of that you will be doing your cardiovascular system a favour and on the lighter side, you might be able to run for a bus if you need to!  Also, if your GP sees that you are getting a grip then he/she will see that giving you help will not be wasting their time and so is likely to be more helpful.  It's a win all round.

PS.  Get your chef (sorry wife) to check out the food section of the forum to get ideas on meals.


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## Eddy Edson (Nov 28, 2019)

growman said:


> I've read that anorexics have a body image in the mind of being fat even when they're very thin. Well, I think I must have the opposite. The weight has just grown but I've been in denial. Anyway, long story short, suddenly I realise what a blob I've become and that the casual pre-diabetic the doctor mentioned has become type 2 diabetes.
> I'm actually very ashamed and embarrassed that I've let myself go this far - a BMI of 43.7, HbA1c of 64 and the finger prick machine says over 8 when I get up.
> I'm 64 and would like to live long enough to spend my pension, so I've got serious and gone onto a very low calorie, low carb diet of around 1,000 a day. First week has gone well - BMI now 41.3. Big part of that was that I pulled my back which went into spasm - pain was like a dagger - so didn't eat for 2 two days. Not a fast, just wasn't hungry.
> Got to go back to the doctor next week - will discuss treatment with him but hoping I can reverse things.
> ...



Sounds good!

I gave up smoking in Jan after the same ~50 years. I instantly switched my addiction to vaping, which worked really well, and which I believe/hope/pray is much better for me. And way, way cheaper!  

It certainly led to a big improvement in my walking. I've got peripheral artery disease/claudication in one leg. Reduced blood flow => less oxygen to calf muscles => cramping & weakness.  Smoking means that carbon monoxide is shoving aside oxygen in yr red blood cells. That doesn't happen with vaping, so more oxygen & better walking. The benefits may be less noticeable if you don't have something obvious like claudication, but I imagine they're still pretty significant for general fitness.


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## growman (Nov 28, 2019)

Thanks everyone for such a warm, encouraging welcome. I've been looking around these forums and seeing that others can do it helps no end. I love Dr Michael Mosley's advice re diet, "If you fall off the wagon, get back on"  My daughter gave me his 8 week blood sugar diet book, which I'm now reading.
Hoping that by losing another stone and not smoking I can get more exercise - silly isn't it? I can't get fit because I'm so unfit!


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## rebrascora (Nov 28, 2019)

Hi and welcome from me too.

You have made two huge life changing decisions there and it sounds like your family is very much supporting you with them so that is wonderful. It takes a lot to face up to such challenges but you sound like you have taken the bull by the horns. Best of luck with them.

As regards exercise, one of the best things you can do with diabetes is a brisk walk every day. If you are unfit, start with 10 mins and build it up. Push yourself to go faster than your normal pace but don't go silly. If you can fit a walk in after dinner on an evening that will help to lower your BG or prevent it spiking too high from the food.
You are going to find a huge improvement in mobility as you shed the pounds. I was only a stone and a half overweight but the benefit of eating low carb and losing it is fantastic. No more joint pain (my knees and back were giving me grief on a daily basis pre diagnosis) and I can hunker down to tie shoe laces and get back up without effort and no creaking and groaning as I would have before.

You might find getting yourself a Blood Glucose meter helpful in motivating you, so that you can test your blood at home and see how you are getting on and which foods cause you the most problems. They are not expensive to buy at about £15 but the on going purchase of test strips is where the costs start clocking up. For that reason here on the forum, the SD Codefree meter is recommended as the test strips for it are one of the cheapest at £8 for a pot of 50. If my BG levels are too high it encourages me to drink a glass of water and go out for a walk as both of those things will help to lower it. When you are struggling with sticking to the diet it can help to keep you on the straight and narrow as you can't really tell when your Blood Glucose is high unless it is massively high, but those moderately high levels over a long period are what can cause damage to nerves and blood vessels, so sometimes it helps to motivate you to be able to actually see where it is at.


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## Drummer (Nov 28, 2019)

being overweight and having type two diabetes are not two problems - they are both symptoms of being unable to deal with carbohydrate.
If you eat a low carb diet - even with normal amounts of fat, the weight might not be a problem - I lost weight without even trying just by getting back to eating low carb. I never realised just how much until my clothes started to slide south - luckily not in public.


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## CathyB (Nov 28, 2019)

growman said:


> Thanks for that, Drummer.  I'm trying to hit two things really, being obese and being diabetic. Happily I'm doing OK on low calories but I do miss the carbs.. still, my wife is in control of the kitchen and she's a will of iron when it comes to my diet now.


Hi, welcome to the forum.  Just to endorse what Drummer has said, you honestly dont need to do both, I followed the low carb/high good fat on the advice of the guys here, I knew i needed to lose weight but my priority was getting my bg back under control, I was amazed to find within 6 months I had dropped 4 stone!!!


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## SueEK (Nov 28, 2019)

Hi and welcome to you. I just wanted to echo what the others have said, low carb is what most of us as T2 find works best for weight and bg levels. Good luck and let us know what you are getting on. Sounds like you have a huge benefit in a wife that will be strict, my family understands but are always saying ‘have a treat’ aargh!!


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## Sharron1 (Nov 28, 2019)

Eddy Edson said:


> Sounds good!
> 
> I gave up smoking in Jan after the same ~50 years. I instantly switched my addiction to vaping, which worked really well, and which I believe/hope/pray is much better for me. And way, way cheaper!
> 
> It certainly led to a big improvement in my walking. I've got peripheral artery disease/claudication in one leg. Reduced blood flow => less oxygen to calf muscles => cramping & weakness.  Smoking means that carbon monoxide is shoving aside oxygen in yr red blood cells. That doesn't happen with vaping, so more oxygen & better walking. The benefits may be less noticeable if you don't have something obvious like claudication, but I imagine they're still pretty significant for general fitness.


Can  I ask a question ? I don't mean to be intrusive. So please ignore it if you prefer. You mentioned you have peripheral artery disease. Is that the check the nurse does when she checks the pulse in my foot/leg? She told me  I had a good strong pulse and I forgot to ask her what the significance was. So much to learn


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## growman (Nov 28, 2019)

SueEK said:


> Hi and welcome to you. I just wanted to echo what the others have said, low carb is what most of us as T2 find works best for weight and bg levels. Good luck and let us know what you are getting on. Sounds like you have a huge benefit in a wife that will be strict, my family understands but are always saying ‘have a treat’ aargh!!


Tonight is a carb free stir-fry. My trouble has been a love of potatoes and bread so missing the carbs but I'm looking forward to some roasties on Christmas day 
I'm testing my blood glucose now - can't really make sense of the readings yet but I'm seeing the doctor on the 7th and can discuss. The weight is easy to make sense of - less is good!


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## DebbieC (Nov 28, 2019)

growman said:


> Tonight is a carb free stir-fry. My trouble has been a love of potatoes and bread so missing the carbs but I'm looking forward to some roasties on Christmas day
> I'm testing my blood glucose now - can't really make sense of the readings yet but I'm seeing the doctor on the 7th and can discuss. The weight is easy to make sense of - less is good!


Welcome , my son just lost 45 lbs on low carb diet and his BG back to below pre diabetic in 8 weeks... we love recipes in Dr Moseley book ... everyone on here really helpful so good luck on your journey (ps my son Hba1c similar to yours at diagnosis in September)
Debbie


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## growman (Nov 28, 2019)

Thanks Debbie - the morning after the diagnosis, 21/11/19 I got on the scales.. 272 lbs. BMI 43.7 | 26/11/19 257 lbs. BMI 41.3
Target 10 st. (140 lbs.) Started at 194.3% of target.
And yes, everyone is being so helpful and supporting, which is amazing.


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## Drummer (Nov 28, 2019)

growman said:


> Tonight is a carb free stir-fry. My trouble has been a love of potatoes and bread so missing the carbs but I'm looking forward to some roasties on Christmas day
> I'm testing my blood glucose now - can't really make sense of the readings yet but I'm seeing the doctor on the 7th and can discuss. The weight is easy to make sense of - less is good!


Carb free?
I'm now wondering what it consisted of - do reveal the contents.


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## growman (Nov 28, 2019)

Drummer said:


> Carb free?
> I'm now wondering what it consisted of - do reveal the contents.


Bean sprouts, chicken, bamboo shoots, water chestnuts, carrots, onions, mushrooms, soy sauce - not sure what else. It was lovely though.


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## Eddy Edson (Nov 28, 2019)

growman said:


> Bean sprouts, chicken, bamboo shoots, water chestnuts, carrots, onions, mushrooms, soy sauce - not sure what else. It was lovely though.



Sounds great - except for the mushrooms which I still can't believe anybody really likes  (j/k)

But it ain't totally "carb free".  If you're not doing it already, maybe worth digging into the carb content of what you're eating. Easy enough to find info on line, and people recommend the "Carbs and Calories" book from DUK.


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## growman (Nov 28, 2019)

Eddy Edson said:


> Sounds great - except for the mushrooms which I still can't believe anybody really likes  (j/k)
> 
> But it ain't totally "carb free".  If you're not doing it already, maybe worth digging into the carb content of what you're eating. Easy enough to find info on line, and people recommend the "Carbs and Calories" book from DUK.


I think you're being a bit pedantic there


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## Eddy Edson (Nov 29, 2019)

growman said:


> I think you're being a bit pedantic there



I've been known for that  But it may be useful to get yr head around what different people mean when they say "low carb". 

For some people it can be as low as 10g per day, and they would tsk-tsk at your meal (probably, without actually counting the carbs - but water chestnuts and carrots both have reasonable carb content etc etc).  

For others, "low carb" often means something like "no more than 30% of cals from carbs", so on a 2500 cal per day diet, no more than ~180g. And for these people, like me, yr meal looks just fine.

Anyway, when people talk about "low carb", you usually need to find out exactly what they mean if you want to understand them.


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## trophywench (Nov 29, 2019)

Well - it sounds like you're already aware that even lettuce contains carbs - which an awful lot of folk simply don't - so Eddy was possibly being a touch pedantic - but sometimes you do have to shove the message home in a bit of an exaggerated way for some folk to grasp.

For whoever enquired about the ankle pulses - since the extremities and especially the tootsies are the commonest place for us to get diabetic neuropathy, checking we have a good blood supply to them is an obvious and easy check to make whilst nurses are looking at them.

You can get hardening of the arteries (AKA PAD) anywhere in your body or indeed everywhere - the leg arteries are by far the most commonly seen whether you're diabetic or not.  To actually diagnose it though it needs to be a doctor who compares (at least) the pulses in your groin with those in your ankles - there should be a direct comparison of the ratio between them.  If not and especially if you have pains in the leg after walking or standing for a while - that's indicative of the calf muscles being starved of oxygen but because of the pain people tend to avoid walking.  That's a shame because the only way to stop it getting worse - is to walk more!


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## Eddy Edson (Nov 29, 2019)

Sharron1 said:


> Can  I ask a question ? I don't mean to be intrusive. So please ignore it if you prefer. You mentioned you have peripheral artery disease. Is that the check the nurse does when she checks the pulse in my foot/leg? She told me  I had a good strong pulse and I forgot to ask her what the significance was. So much to learn



Sorry, I missed this. As Jenny says, that one is for neuropathy stuff. For PAD in the legs, what she describes is the standard "ankle brachial index" (ABI) test, which compares blood pressure at top and bottom of legs to see what the flow is like. 

Strangely, I never had that done & so I have no idea what my ABI is/was - doc went straight to doppler ultrasound, which I think would normally be Step 2. 

But I guess it was obvious enough - diabetic + long time heavy smoker means my risk of PAD was very high, and my symptoms were "classic", which apparently is often not the case.


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## growman (Nov 29, 2019)

If I was writing professionally then I'd double check and qualify statements as appropriate - but I'm not. I do know a fair bit about nutritional values etc from research I've been doing (nothing to do with diabetes or dieting), so I take the points made with a smile. One thing I won't do is analyse to the nth degree what I eat - a rough calculation of 250 calories is adequate, whether it's 220 or 270 really makes no difference to me when I've plummeted from about 2,600 a day to 1,000 or less. What I could do is turn eating into misery and when miserable I eat. 
So to me 'low carb' means a heck of a lot less than I used to eat and 'no carb' means no spuds, rice, bread etc. just what carbs are in veg already. And if I'm honest, I'm a bit touchy at the moment with a giant boot dropped from the sky on my head.
Last week tonight's stir fry would have had a side of rice. Not really missed it though.


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## Drummer (Nov 29, 2019)

growman said:


> Bean sprouts, chicken, bamboo shoots, water chestnuts, carrots, onions, mushrooms, soy sauce - not sure what else. It was lovely though.


Ah - not entirely carb free then bean sprouts are 5 percent carbs bamboo shoots are very low, water chestnuts 20 percent, carrots 10 percent, onions about 10 percent, mushrooms  are very low, soy sauce up to 6 percent. 
I put sweet pepper into my stir fries and salads as that is about 7 percent - all these are good choices, even the water chestnuts in moderation - but I calculated them when I first started out on low carb eating, as I was keeping to under 50 gm of carbs a day then, and now keep under 40 gm - but I am sensitive to carbs and made a conscious decision to stay at 40 gm per day for the variety that gives even though I am just above the very top edge of normal for my Hba1c tests.


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## growman (Nov 29, 2019)

Just a point you may not be aware of - the nutritional analysis of natural vegetables & fruits is quite variable. Factors which affect are; the nutrients in the soil, water availability, temperature, insolation, variety; when planted; age at harvest; storage method and length of storage. There's also, of course, variability introduced in the way a vegetable is cooked (or not). Most of the studies concentrate on vitamin and micro-nutrient content but logically there must be some variation in carbohydrate levels. Nearly forgot - plants also react to stressors - pest or weed pressure. 
Don't want to worry you, I very much doubt those variations are significant or generally worth worrying about in this context.


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