# The Truth About Carbs



## Browser (Jun 6, 2018)

on BBC1 just now. Food for thought.


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## Robin (Jun 6, 2018)

Browser said:


> on BBC1 just now. Food for thought.


No wonder there's a shortage of Libre sensors, they've all got them on!


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## Carolg (Jun 6, 2018)

Just watched it. Have it recorded so might watch again to take more in. Wonder how many gp,s will be interested


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## travellor (Jun 6, 2018)

An excellent program, certainly pushing the low GI option, which I used on the road to reverse my type 2.
It would appear Dr Unwin supported it too.


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## Flakie (Jun 6, 2018)

Only saw part of it but have recorded it. Interesting bit about how cooked, cooled and reheated food has less of an impact. I thought I’d read this at the beginning of my journey and maybe it was correct. I eat tinned new potatoes and also use frozen mash for my cottage pie and it doesn’t seem to affect me. Look forward to seeing the rest of it.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Jun 6, 2018)

Only saw a bit of it, but it seemed to fit with the experience of folks here.

Really interesting to see carb moderation/reduction presented in such a mainstream setting.

Maybe the world is changing at last, and the ‘eatwell plate’ will be shown the door.


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## DaveB (Jun 6, 2018)

A brilliant program. I wonder what all the 'eat loads of carbs' GPs will be thinking tomorrow. I hope they will apologise to their patients for aiding and abetting their diabetes condition.


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## travellor (Jun 6, 2018)

I have never, ever been recommended white carbs by any HCP. They have all been firmly behind everything said on the program tonight.
Even to the support from Dr Unwin for avoiding white carbs reflects mainstream advice.


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## Sally71 (Jun 7, 2018)

It sounds like you are lucky then @travellor. We get loads of confused newbies on here who have been told completely the wrong information or even no information at all!  Everyone knows to avoid obvious sugary foods, but there are many people out there who have never been told that things like bread and potatoes should also be treated with extreme caution, and then wonder why they can't get their blood sugars down.  On "GP's Behind Closed Doors" on channel 5 a couple of years ago there was a really smug nurse shown who used to laugh with her diabetic patients about "you really ought to cut out the biscuits you know" and never mentioned any other carbs.  Sadly there's a long way to go before all health care practitioners are giving out the correct advice


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## Edgar (Jun 7, 2018)

Interesting to hear his comments about frozen bread being healthier than fresh. My bread is all homemade and it's all being sliced and put in the freezer from  now on


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## Vince_UK (Jun 7, 2018)

Just watching it now on iPlayer.
Extremely interesting..


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## Bubbsie (Jun 7, 2018)

travellor said:


> I have never, ever been recommended white carbs by any HCP. They have all been firmly behind everything said on the program tonight.
> Even to the support from Dr Unwin for avoiding white carbs reflects mainstream advice.


I agree with @Sally71 you have been extremely fortunate with your HCP's...all of the 'right' advice I learned was from being a member of several forums...reading and asking the right questions...none of it came from any of the health care professionals I encountered...even my GP very honestly said he knew little about type 2 diabetes...mainstream advice doesn't reflect the NHS approach...there is still a long way to go yet.


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## Vince_UK (Jun 7, 2018)

All my lifeI have had an aversion to reheated food lol
Now in a major rethink.
Wonder where that bakery is located.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 7, 2018)

Carolg said:


> Just watched it. Have it recorded so might watch again to take more in. Wonder how many gp,s will be interested


Carol I'm not sure it told me anything I (and many members) didn't already know...lets hope it has some impact on those HCP's who constantly give out contrary advice...I wonder how much attention our GP's or DSN's will give this information.


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## Mark Parrott (Jun 7, 2018)

I was very impressed by the programme.  I was also lucky to have a DSN who told me to cut carbs (and avoid white carbs altogether).


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## Vince_UK (Jun 7, 2018)

NIce to see the Avocados on there lol
So I guess if one takes a low carb bread such as Morrisons protein, freeze it and then toast it the low carbs will even be lower and less lethal.
Very interesting.

***Fat finger been at play today lol  typos edited out


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## Vince_UK (Jun 7, 2018)

I can see a business opportunity here. A specialised low carb bakery for example but reasonably priced.To attract people to low carb diets you have to make it accessible, attractive and above all lower or reasonably costed and retail priced.
I find the low carb food specialists available online are expensive and are taking advantage of the "fad" aspect of low carbing.
Hmmm just thinking aloud.


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## Mark Parrott (Jun 7, 2018)

I always toast bread from frozen.  Didn't realise that it was beneficial.


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## Vince_UK (Jun 7, 2018)

Mark Parrott said:


> I always toast bread from frozen.  Didn't realise that it was beneficial.


I have never frozen bread until this week. Have a loaf of Morrisons Protein split into 2 slice lots and frozen at this moment. Also have some of the low card rolls in the freezer. I did it to avoid wasting them but this info is a big plus it would seem.


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## Carolg (Jun 7, 2018)

Vince_UK said:


> I have never frozen bread until this week. Have a loaf of Morrisons Protein split into 2 slice lots and frozen at this moment. Also have some of the low card rolls in the freezer. I did it to avoid wasting them but this info is a big plus it would seem.


I used to always do this to save waste, but not low carb bread


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## Bubbsie (Jun 7, 2018)

Vince_UK said:


> I can see a business opportunity here. A specialised low carb bakery for example but reasonably priced.To attract people to low carb diets you have to make it accessible, attractive and above all lower or reasonably costed and retail priced.
> I find the low carb food specialists available online are expensive and are taking advantage of the "fad" aspect of low carbing.
> Hmmm just thinking aloud.


I'm making my own Carol...there are so many recipes out there for low carb bread...it's often lower in carbs than the ones we buy...made one at the weekend...it lasted almost the whole week...as soon as it's ready it's sliced & straight in the freezer...I realise not everyone can or will make their own...but it's certainly an option...I have to have bread in my diet.


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## Carolg (Jun 7, 2018)

Used to make bread and did make flax seed bread recently. Must have a look for recipes


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## Bubbsie (Jun 7, 2018)

Carolg said:


> Used to make bread and did make flax seed bread recently. Must have a look for recipes


The best & easiest one I've found is the bran bread...it does use eggs but you can substitute those with some ground flax/linseed soaked in water overnight...it's so easy to make I tend to have that one all the time now...have a look in the low carb baking thread.


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## Pamela Giddings (Jun 7, 2018)

Strawberries less sugar than rice? Now that's nice!


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## Bubbsie (Jun 7, 2018)

Pamela Giddings said:


> Strawberries less sugar than rice? Now that's nice!


Yes I particularly liked that one...on my menu today with some extra thick cream.


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## Vince_UK (Jun 7, 2018)

Pamela Giddings said:


> Strawberries less sugar than rice? Now that's nice!


I eat absolutey tons of them lol


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## Stitch147 (Jun 7, 2018)

Im just watching this now (ive got to do something while im at work!)


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## Bubbsie (Jun 7, 2018)

Vince_UK said:


> I eat absolutey tons of them lol


They still have a good few spoonsful of sugar Vince...slow down.


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## Stitch147 (Jun 7, 2018)

When I went along to the diabetes professional insider event they explained about the freezing of foods and ive been doing that with bread since then. Also with the allowing things like pasta and rice to cool and reheating them. Ive been doing that with the pasta and rice that I still eat.


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## Grannylorraine (Jun 7, 2018)

Only watched the end of it last night as I was out, going to watch it tonight when I get home.


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## travellor (Jun 7, 2018)

Sally71 said:


> It sounds like you are lucky then @travellor. We get loads of confused newbies on here who have been told completely the wrong information or even no information at all!  Everyone knows to avoid obvious sugary foods, but there are many people out there who have never been told that things like bread and potatoes should also be treated with extreme caution, and then wonder why they can't get their blood sugars down.  On "GP's Behind Closed Doors" on channel 5 a couple of years ago there was a really smug nurse shown who used to laugh with her diabetic patients about "you really ought to cut out the biscuits you know" and never mentioned any other carbs.  Sadly there's a long way to go before all health care practitioners are giving out the correct advice



I can't comment on others, but even the eatwell plate is a high fibre low GI option if you look at it.


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## Grannylorraine (Jun 7, 2018)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Only saw a bit of it, but it seemed to fit with the experience of folks here.
> 
> Really interesting to see carb moderation/reduction presented in such a mainstream setting.
> 
> Maybe the world is changing at last, and the ‘eatwell plate’ will be shown the door.


Only seeing the bit at the end when the patients had all done so well after two weeks on the low carb diet, I said to myself (no one else at home), hopefully they will stop pushing the eat well plate at everyone now.  Will watch it in full tonight.


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## Maz2 (Jun 7, 2018)

Am about halfway through it and very impressed with it.  Let's hope all the advice about eating carbs, carbs, carbs, goes out of the window.  I used to eat jacket potatoes every day before I went pre-diabetic and came on here to find out that it was not good to be constantly eating sandwiches, breakfast cereal, potatoes, pasta and rice.  Jacket potatoes - equivalent to 19 sugar cubes, almost as much as two chocolate muffins!!!! (agh).  

Was not aware that toasting bread from freezing was beneficial or cooking, cooling and then re-heating the pasta and rice.  Very informative programme. 

I got out of pre-diabetes but back in it again so will battle on.


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## Maz2 (Jun 7, 2018)

Bubbsie said:


> The best & easiest one I've found is the bran bread...it does use eggs but you can substitute those with some ground flax/linseed soaked in water overnight...it's so easy to make I tend to have that one all the time now...have a look in the low carb baking thread.


Thanks for that about the ground flaxseed/linseed as substitute for eggs.  I did not know that.  Will have a go at that just for a change.  I do love eggs though,


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## MickD (Jun 7, 2018)

Stitch147 said:


> When I went along to the diabetes professional insider event they explained about the freezing of foods and ive been doing that with bread since then. Also with the allowing things like pasta and rice to cool and reheating them. Ive been doing that with the pasta and rice that I still eat.


I wonder if it is the same with chips


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## Mark Parrott (Jun 7, 2018)

MickD said:


> I wonder if it is the same with chips


Actually, no reason why not.


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## Northerner (Jun 7, 2018)

Stitch147 said:


> When I went along to the diabetes professional insider event they explained about the freezing of foods and ive been doing that with bread since then. Also with the allowing things like pasta and rice to cool and reheating them. Ive been doing that with the pasta and rice that I still eat.


Just a warning about eating reheated rice...

https://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/can-reheating-rice-cause-food-poisoning.aspx?CategoryID=51

Make sure it's kept cold and don't reheat more than once


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## Bubbsie (Jun 7, 2018)

Maz2 said:


> Thanks for that about the ground flaxseed/linseed as substitute for eggs.  I did not know that.  Will have a go at that just for a change.  I do love eggs though,


Maz eggs are fine but some don't like the taste...so Linseed is a good substitute if soaked in water...you'll have to look up the quantities though.


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## Pine Marten (Jun 7, 2018)

travellor said:


> I have never, ever been recommended white carbs by any HCP. They have all been firmly behind everything said on the program tonight.
> Even to the support from Dr Unwin for avoiding white carbs reflects mainstream advice.


You were fortunate, travellor, as like others have said, I was given diet sheets which advised having starchy foods at every meal - jacket potatoes, bread, low fat foods etc etc. I happily followed this advice, put on weight and my numbers went up, so I was given Metformin .

Fortunately I found this place and lo! illumination dawned, I reduced the carbs, lost weight, and stopped medication. I'm glad to say that my surgery is much better informed these days.


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## Lanny (Jun 7, 2018)

Northerner said:


> Just a warning about eating reheated rice...
> 
> https://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/can-reheating-rice-cause-food-poisoning.aspx?CategoryID=51
> 
> Make sure it's kept cold and don't reheat more than once



Yes, that’s true @Northerner!

Over many years in the Chinese restaurant business, we got asked about reheating rice, doggy boxes, & we said only reheat boiled rice & never the fried rice! Because we used, & everyone else we know in the same business, reheats cooked boiled rice leftover from the previous day for fried rice!

You should NEVER reheat fried rice for that reason: that’s how it’s made; reheating cold boiled rice!


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## Martin9 (Jun 7, 2018)

Maz2 said:


> Am about halfway through it and very impressed with it.  Let's hope all the advice about eating carbs, carbs, carbs, goes out of the window.  I used to eat jacket potatoes every day before I went pre-diabetic and came on here to find out that it was not good to be constantly eating sandwiches, breakfast cereal, potatoes, pasta and rice.  Jacket potatoes - equivalent to 19 sugar cubes, almost as much as two chocolate muffins!!!! (agh).
> 
> Was not aware that toasting bread from freezing was beneficial or cooking, cooling and then re-heating the pasta and rice.  Very informative programme.
> 
> I got out of pre-diabetes but back in it again so will battle on.


I'm just wondering how you toast frozen bread without individuallly wrapping each slice...


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## Martin Canty (Jun 7, 2018)

travellor said:


> I can't comment on others, but even the eatwell plate is a high fibre low GI option if you look at it.


My personal experience is that if I ate to the eatwell plate then my BG will begin to rise... I can see that it's fine for a non-diabetic but as a humble T2 my body reacts best to omitting the carbs.


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## MickD (Jun 7, 2018)

Martin9 said:


> I'm just wondering how you toast frozen bread without individuallly wrapping each slice...


Martin the bread i use Tesco High Protein the slices come apart very easy even when frozen.


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## Lanny (Jun 7, 2018)

Martin9 said:


> I'm just wondering how you toast frozen bread without individuallly wrapping each slice...



I put 2 slices into a plastic bag & use the frozen setting on my toaster, 2 slices of kingsmill no crusts is a little bit sticky but, pries apart easier than a whole loaf! I don’t like crusts so, maybe bread with crusts is easier!


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## Vince_UK (Jun 7, 2018)

I have split a loaf into 2 slice packs in freezer bags and frozen it that way.


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## Vince_UK (Jun 7, 2018)

Lanny said:


> I put 2 slices into a plastic bag & use the frozen setting on my toaster, 2 slices of kingsmill no crusts is a little bit sticky but, pries apart easier than a whole loaf! I don’t like crusts so, maybe bread with crusts is easier!


Toast on the Frozen setting Lanny? Is that the best setting. I was just going to wap in it high lol
Thanks for that


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## Pine Marten (Jun 7, 2018)

Lanny said:


> I put 2 slices into a plastic bag & use the frozen setting on my toaster, 2 slices of kingsmill no crusts is a little bit sticky but, pries apart easier than a whole loaf! I don’t like crusts so, maybe bread with crusts is easier!


Gosh, a frozen setting? Ours is basically on or off 

Actually I normally toast from frozen (it's no hassle) as I tend to bulk buy when I happen to see Burgen, Hovis or whatever, so I just get out the slices as I require them. I didn't know it was more beneficial though until this programme said it!


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## Lanny (Jun 7, 2018)

Only £16 at tesco, their own brand, & the best one I’ve ever had! Works a treat: no need to whack the the dial up & down just set it to your normal setting & then press the frozen button after lowering the bread. It adds the perfect extra time to toast as if you hadn’t frozen it! Prior to this; I never knew you could do that either!


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## Ruby/London (Jun 7, 2018)

Having attended a DESMOND course yesterday, I'd say health professionals have still got a long way to go.  The course offered very sound medical information, delivered by, I have to say, a very nice but very overweight nurse who probably did her training in the 50s. I have a problem with health professionals who dole out advice they are clearly not following themselves.  I thought the dietary advice was a bit off whack - all about lowering fat and calories and nothing about the effect of carbs.  I asked the trainer what she thought about the new research on low carb, short term low cal diet studies and  she dismissed them as being too miserable.  I felt people could have been better informed ...


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## Bubbsie (Jun 7, 2018)

Ruby/London said:


> Having attended a DESMOND course yesterday, I'd say health professionals have still got a long way to go.  The course offered very sound medical information, delivered by, I have to say, a very nice but very overweight nurse who probably did her training in the 50s. I have a problem with health professionals who dole out advice they are clearly not following themselves.  I thought the dietary advice was a bit off whack - all about lowering fat and calories and nothing about the effect of carbs.  I asked the trainer what she thought about the new research on low carb, short term low cal diet studies and  she dismissed them as being too miserable.  I felt people could have been better informed ...


I think you're being very diplomatic there Ruby...the one I attended was abysmal...an absolute waste of time.


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## Ruby/London (Jun 7, 2018)

You know what, Bubbsie, you're right...it was crap.  Apart from the medical information, I actually felt people were very badly served and hoped they had the motivation to look for information beyond the course.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 7, 2018)

Ruby/London said:


> You know what, Bubbsie, you're right...it was crap.  Apart from the medical information, I actually felt people were very badly served and hoped they had the motivation to look for information beyond the course.


The one I attended was like a Monty Python sketch Ruby...but it wasn't the slightest bit funny...shocking how poor & archaic the advice was...like you I hope the others attending have & will look for advice elsewhere.


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## Carolg (Jun 8, 2018)

Stitch147 said:


> When I went along to the diabetes professional insider event they explained about the freezing of foods and ive been doing that with bread since then. Also with the allowing things like pasta and rice to cool and reheating them. Ive been doing that with the pasta and rice that I still eat.


I saw that before about reheating pasta, didn’t know about rice though before. I used to freeze bread in individual portions as otherwise I wasted it.


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## FM001 (Jun 8, 2018)

Martin9 said:


> I'm just wondering how you toast frozen bread without individuallly wrapping each slice...



Freeze the sliced loaf laying flat on a even surface, that way the slices don't stick together and are easily parted, if you freeze the loaf standing on its end the slices tend to stick together and break up when trying to part them.

Ref the eatwell plate, never heard of it until it was mentioned on a diabetes forum where they are obsessed with pulling down the medical profession.


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## Maz2 (Jun 8, 2018)

Ruby/London said:


> Having attended a DESMOND course yesterday, I'd say health professionals have still got a long way to go.  The course offered very sound medical information, delivered by, I have to say, a very nice but very overweight nurse who probably did her training in the 50s. I have a problem with health professionals who dole out advice they are clearly not following themselves.  I thought the dietary advice was a bit off whack - all about lowering fat and calories and nothing about the effect of carbs.  I asked the trainer what she thought about the new research on low carb, short term low cal diet studies and  she dismissed them as being too miserable.  I felt people could have been better informed ...


Disgraceful.  I feel sorry for people who don't know about this Forum or don't like joining in Forums as they could make themselves worse through taking advice from so-called "professionals."  I recall going on the diabetes prevention programme and telling my optometrist when I went for the yearly test (he is a high fat, low carb lover, non-diabetic) and he said "oh what are they doing - teaching you to become diabetic rather than just pre"!!!!.  hopefully this "Truth about Carbs" programme will change things.  I certainly did not think the diet looked miserable.


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## Ruby/London (Jun 8, 2018)

toby said:


> Ref the eatwell plate, never heard of it until it was mentioned on a diabetes forum where they are obsessed with pulling down the medical profession.



I do think the medical profession needs challenging sometimes.  The more I think about the course I attended, the more concerned I feel about how poorly people were served.  One person talked about his bg and was asked what he had for breakfast.  He starts the day with 3 slices of white toast and jam and spent the morning eating bananas and oranges and they seemed to think that was ok.  From my perspective, all I could see was an early morning carb and sugar overload.  There were people there who had been diagnosed many years ago and re-referred because they hadn't managed to get their bg under control.  A lot of the new research is coming from the medical profession but not being filtered down to front line services and courses designed to help people.   I suspect that in 5 years time, the new research will be the norm but if the only thing I had to rely on was the dietary information from the DESMOND course, I doubt I would be making any progress.  I would argue that if the NHS are going to invest in education programmes they need to be relevant if they want to achieve good outcomes.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 8, 2018)

Ruby/London said:


> > Ref the eatwell plate, never heard of it until it was mentioned on a diabetes forum where they are obsessed with pulling down the medical profession.
> 
> 
> 
> I do think the medical profession needs challenging sometimes.  The more I think about the course I attended, the more concerned I feel about how poorly people were served.  One person talked about his bg and was asked what he had for breakfast.  He starts the day with 3 slices of white toast and jam and spent the morning eating bananas and oranges and they seemed to think that was ok.  From my perspective, all I could see was an early morning carb and sugar overload.  There were people there who had been diagnosed many years ago and re-referred because they hadn't managed to get their bg under control.  A lot of the new research is coming from the medical profession but not being filtered down to front line services and courses designed to help people.   I suspect that in 5 years time, the new research will be the norm but if the only thing I had to rely on was the dietary information from the DESMOND course, I doubt I would be making any progress.  I would argue that if the NHS are going to invest in education programmes they need to be relevant if they want to achieve good outcomes.


Spot on Ruby...well said.


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## Vince_UK (Jun 8, 2018)

Ruby/London said:


> You know what, Bubbsie, you're right...it was crap.  Apart from the medical information, I actually felt people were very badly served and hoped they had the motivation to look for information beyond the course.


When I was first diagnosed in Sept last year the advice I was given by both the Nurse and my GP, or should I say total lack of advice, and the information I was offered was absolutely incorrect. I was leaving 2 days later for Shanghai in complete ignorance with useless guidance and to be quite honest in shock at the dx.. 
There seemed to be an ethos that "ok you are T2 diabetic and there is nothing you can do about it, take the pills", what absolute crap. Without this forum and the people on it I would have been totally in the dark. As it was I gleaned everything I needed here. When I went for my first review in January this year and saw the Diabetes Doctor I registered a formal and strong complaint.  Believe me I pulled no punches, I was furious and am still angry about the whole complete incompetence. I am afraid I view it as that, incompetence. I do now know for a fact this complaint was acted upon.
We need to be in a position to challenge what these "professionals" tell us and really fight back with facts, our own empirical data via testing etc. and experience.
What's more, we need to tell them they are outdated.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 8, 2018)

Vince_UK said:


> When I was first diagnosed in Sept last year the advice I was given by both the Nurse and my GP, or should I say total lack of advice, and the information I was offered was absolutely incorrect. I was leaving 2 days later for Shanghai in complete ignorance with useless guidance and to be quite honest in shock at the dx..
> There seemed to be an ethos that "ok you are T2 diabetic and there is nothing you can do about it, take the pills", what absolute crap. Without this forum and the people on it I would have been totally in the dark. As it was I gleaned everything I needed here. When I went for my first review in January this year and saw the Diabetes Doctor I registered a formal and strong complaint.  Believe me I pulled no punches, I was furious and am still angry about the whole complete incompetence. I am afraid I view it as that, incompetence. I do now know for a fact this complaint was acted upon.
> We need to be in a position to challenge what these "professionals" tell us and really fight back with facts, our own empirical data via testing etc. and experience.
> What's more, we need to tell them they are outdated.


Agree unequivocally Vince.


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## Stitch147 (Jun 8, 2018)

Northerner said:


> Just a warning about eating reheated rice...
> 
> https://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/can-reheating-rice-cause-food-poisoning.aspx?CategoryID=51
> 
> Make sure it's kept cold and don't reheat more than once


Oh yes! know about the risks of that for a while and always make sure I reheat it properly.


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## DaveB (Jun 8, 2018)

I'm lucky as I have never been invited to one of these 'educational' courses so have not made my diabetes worse. What is DUK doing to challenge the appalling advice given by some in the NHS?


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## Bubbsie (Jun 8, 2018)

DaveB said:


> I'm lucky as I have never been invited to one of these 'educational' courses so have not made my diabetes worse. What is DUK doing to challenge the appalling advice given by some in the NHS?


DUK have finally endorsed the low carb approach to diet Dave...however they recommend low carb & *low fat*...disappointing to have only come half way there...in answer to your question...only DUK can answer that...perhaps that might be one you could address to @Hannah DUK


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## Vince_UK (Jun 8, 2018)

DaveB said:


> I'm lucky as I have never been invited to one of these 'educational' courses so have not made my diabetes worse. What is DUK doing to challenge the appalling advice given by some in the NHS?


Nor have I actually


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## Bubbsie (Jun 8, 2018)

Vince_UK said:


> Nor have I actually


You were fortunate Vince.


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## Maz2 (Jun 8, 2018)

I found the diabetes prevention programme helpful in that they checked the hba1c every 3 months but I was not impressed with the "eat well" plate as I felt it was too heavily in favour of "beige carbs" they mentioned the other night in "The Truth About Carbs."  

When I was underweight they kept saying to me "introduce more carbs."  I didn't because that was caused the trouble in the first place.  Obviously, I eat some - salad/veg/some fruit but not too much but don't want to be eating bread, potatoes, pasta and rice at every meal.


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## Martin9 (Jun 8, 2018)

toby said:


> Freeze the sliced loaf laying flat on a even surface, that way the slices don't stick together and are easily parted, if you freeze the loaf standing on its end the slices tend to stick together and break up when trying to part them.
> 
> Ref the eatwell plate, never heard of it until it was mentioned on a diabetes forum where they are obsessed with pulling down the medical profession.


On a flat surface...I'm not sure what you mean..


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## Ruby/London (Jun 8, 2018)

I think the thing that upset me most, was that the two people who had been re-referred had been following the dietary advice, one for 16 years and the other for 7 (Mr toast and jam man) and both reported that they had steadily been getting worse. Go figure ...

It's not just shocking, it's dangerous.


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## travellor (Jun 8, 2018)

Ruby/London said:


> Having attended a DESMOND course yesterday, I'd say health professionals have still got a long way to go.  The course offered very sound medical information, delivered by, I have to say, a very nice but very overweight nurse who probably did her training in the 50s. I have a problem with health professionals who dole out advice they are clearly not following themselves.  I thought the dietary advice was a bit off whack - all about lowering fat and calories and nothing about the effect of carbs.  I asked the trainer what she thought about the new research on low carb, short term low cal diet studies and  she dismissed them as being too miserable.  I felt people could have been better informed ...



I don't find fat shaming anyone acceptable sorry.
You  take one look  at anyone overweight, and simply think they have a bad diet, and decide its all their own fault  for not doing anything about it. 
Not a brilliant attitude to be honest.


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## Ruby/London (Jun 8, 2018)

Travellor, If I attend a *health* programme and a *health professional* is lecturing me on my obesity as a causal factor in T2 diabetes and my health and fitness, I expect them to practising what they preach, if only so that I can believe that what they are saying actually works.  That is not fat shaming. That is wanting to see what the NHS refers to as evidence based practice.


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## travellor (Jun 9, 2018)

Ruby/London said:


> Travellor, If I attend a *health* programme and a *health professional* is lecturing me on my obesity as a causal factor in T2 diabetes and my health and fitness, I expect them to practising what they preach, if only so that I can believe that what they are saying actually works.  That is not fat shaming. That is wanting to see what the NHS refers to as evidence based practice.



Seriously, so, as a fat diabetic I couldn't tell you to low carb, as I'm fat so you judge me based solely on looks, and obviously if I wasn't the classic slim stereotype, I must know nothing about healthy eating??
Nope, you are fat shaming, based solely on how the person looks, with no idea why they are overweight, you have decided they simply overeat, and it can't be any other health issue.

And even worse, you actually had likes for de-humanising the nurse that was attempting to help you.
I would have thought as type 2's we get enough, "oh, you''re type 2 because you're fat, and you're fat because you eat too much"
But apparently if you put health professional in bold, it's ok to do the same to them?

No, it's not alright.
There are many other things that cause weight gain!


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## FM001 (Jun 9, 2018)

Ruby/London said:


> Travellor, If I attend a *health* programme and a *health professional* is lecturing me on my obesity as a causal factor in T2 diabetes and my health and fitness, I expect them to practising what they preach, if only so that I can believe that what they are saying actually works.  That is not fat shaming. That is wanting to see what the NHS refers to as evidence based practice.



Judging a person does not define who they are, it defines who *you *are.



Martin9 said:


> On a flat surface...I'm not sure what you mean..



OK flat, the slices don't tend to stick together when it freezes as opposed to storing it the other way.


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## Julia P (Jun 9, 2018)

Vince_UK said:


> All my lifeI have had an aversion to reheated food lol
> Now in a major rethink.
> Wonder where that bakery is located.


Vince_uk, that bakery is in Rutland


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## Radders (Jun 9, 2018)

travellor said:


> Nope, you are fat shaming, based solely on how the person looks, with no idea why they are overweight, you have decided they simply overeat, and it can't be any other health issue.
> 
> And even worse, you actually had likes for de-humanising the nurse that was attempting to help you.
> I would have thought as type 2's we get enough, "oh, you''re type 2 because you're fat, and you're fat because you eat too much"
> ...


I do sympathise and agree that fat shaming is awful, however in this instance the person concerned was actually giving unhelpful advice, so perhaps she is following it after all.


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## Carolg (Jun 9, 2018)

Julia P said:


> Vince_uk, that bakery is in Rutland


The bread looked yummy


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## Ruby/London (Jun 9, 2018)

Gosh, Trevellor I wasn't aware that you knew me well enough to tell me what my intentions are or what I am thinking.  You seem to be framing and answering your opinion, not mine

The trainer was advocating a diet plan to address my own and others obesity, which from her own BMI she clearly didn't follow or it doesn't work.  It also wasn't working for the other two people who had been following the advice after many years of following the standard diet advice she was giving or myself, whose carb overeating, sedentary habits have led to high bg glucose and high blood pressure.  The trainer didn't share the reasons for being overweight, other than she wasn't diabetic and I presume you have no special knowledge about her weight either?  Personally, I think *health professionals* have to practice what they preach if they want people to take their advice seriously.  I work in the health profession. I am also overweight.  I know there are many reasons why people gain weight, the side effects of medication being just one and I wouldn't be prepared to defend an outdated diet plan that does not have good outcomes for people.

For those that have been on the course, you will be familiar with the food exercises and the sugar cubes, similar to what was shown on The Truth about Carbs show.  I agree that baked potatoes are probably better than chips but at a substantial carb intake that is a substantial carb intake, especially if you have started the day with bread and jams albeit sugar free jam.  Telling already fat people (me) to follow this advice goes against new medical opinion.  

I described the trainer as  " a very nice but very overweight nurse who probably did her training in the 50s"  Travellor you came back with:

"Seriously, so, as a fat diabetic I couldn't tell you to low carb, as I'm fat so you judge me based solely on looks, and obviously if I wasn't the classic slim stereotype, I must know nothing about healthy eating??
Nope, you are fat shaming, based solely on how the person looks, with no idea why they are overweight, you have decided they simply overeat, and it can't be any other health issue.

And even worse, you actually had likes for de-humanising the nurse that was attempting to help you.

I would have thought as type 2's we get enough, "oh, you''re type 2 because you're fat, and you're fat because you eat too much"
But apparently if you put health professional in bold, it's ok to do the same to them?"

The two scenarios are not comparable.  My statement was contextual and I didn't describe her as fat.  I am challenging the logic and the advice and for the record I am more overweight that she was.


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## christophe (Jun 9, 2018)

It's the Hambleton bakery in Exhall, in Rutland. 
They use traditional methods wich results in smaller loaves that take longer to make.. they taste about a thousand times better than the average loaf on offer in the supermarkets, maybe two thousand...
The methods used rely less on the machinery and improvers. More like home baking, ironically. 
I worked a shift there as part of my training.. love their big wood-burning oven which looks about 150 years old but are made to order in Barcelona..


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## Maz2 (Jun 9, 2018)

I prefer not to comment on other people's weight.  I had enough of it when I was at work when I went underweight following my pre-diabetic diagnosis two years ago.  I started following a lower carb diet and went underweight because \I had not substituted enough other types of food.  One of my colleagues constantly making comments was overweight which I could not care less about but I would prefer not to keep having remarks made about me.  She is not diabetic or pre-diabetic either.  My friend's brother is 23 stone and not pre-diabetic or diabetic.  I appreciate that kind of weight is not desirable, of course. The husband of one of my friends is underweight and is diabetic so it is not always weight related even though a lot of people and the media keep saying it is.

Even the surgeon I used to work with said to me he was astonished as he had never seen me overweight.

The same colleague was out with me last night and had to put a comment in when I did not want a dessert and say that she had just had a cholesterol test and was fine and she was not diabetic so she was going to continuing eating her dessert and didn't care about her weight.  I don't know why she keeps making comments about this as I have never referred to her weight, nor would I.  suppose I should ask her.


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## Ruby/London (Jun 9, 2018)

In any other context I wouldn't comment on people's weight either.  I work in mental health and know that weight is a complex issue, at either end of the spectrum.  

I have just finished watching The Truth about Carbs and believe it is a public education in itself.  I have watched a couple of the health and diet programmes made by this doctor, one involving his identical twin, also a doctor, on the effect of fat and sugar and, as much as I would like to ignore it, the evidence is compelling.  I almost cheered when the said the low carb programme was going to be rolled out to other GPs across the country. Hopefully, the dietary element of DESMOND will be altered to reflect the new knowledge.


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## Vince_UK (Jun 10, 2018)

Julia P said:


> Vince_uk, that bakery is in Rutland


Thanks Julia


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## silentsquirrel (Jun 10, 2018)

It's Hambleton Bakery, based in Exton, near Oakham.

One of their shops is in our town - products look wonderful, but very pricey!


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## travellor (Jun 10, 2018)

Ruby/London said:


> Gosh, Trevellor I wasn't aware that you knew me well enough to tell me what my intentions are or what I am thinking.  You seem to be framing and answering your opinion, not mine
> 
> The trainer was advocating a diet plan to address my own and others obesity, which from her own BMI she clearly didn't follow or it doesn't work.  It also wasn't working for the other two people who had been following the advice after many years of following the standard diet advice she was giving or myself, whose carb overeating, sedentary habits have led to high bg glucose and high blood pressure.  The trainer didn't share the reasons for being overweight, other than she wasn't diabetic and I presume you have no special knowledge about her weight either?  Personally, I think *health professionals* have to practice what they preach if they want people to take their advice seriously.  I work in the health profession. I am also overweight.  I know there are many reasons why people gain weight, the side effects of medication being just one and I wouldn't be prepared to defend an outdated diet plan that does not have good outcomes for people.
> 
> ...



So, in summary, you're overweight working in the health profession, who can disparage diet advice from a less overweight health professional, based solely on her BMI, while advocating a much better diet?
And you really can't understand why I don't choose to simply call out all overweight health care professionals as a matter of course?

And as you said
"I have a problem with health professionals who dole out advice they are clearly not following themselves"

But, possibly "respect others" is good advice, and let's not simply rubbish low carb as well now if it's presented by anyone with a BMI that some of us don't find acceptable to speak to us about diets?
Personally, I can judge the information, not the shape of the messenger.


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## Ruby/London (Jun 10, 2018)

Good for you.  I am pleased you have a philosophy that works for you


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## Beck S (Jun 10, 2018)

I didn't realise until a while after diagnosis just how lucky I was to have the healthcare team around me who gave me the right advice to go forward.  By the time I was invited onto a nutrition course, I was already on the low carb diet and it was working.  Luckily, the course backed up what I'd already been doing, and having spoken to a couple of people who were there with me since, they're also finding good success.  But I know people who live in the same healthcare area as me who've had abysmal advice - one was told that she wasn't going to be given a BG meter as she wasn't trained to use it and it would just make her diabetes worse anyway.  I hope more programmes like this one go out and show the low carb diet as a positive way forward.


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## Ruby/London (Jun 10, 2018)

Beck S said:


> I didn't realise until a while after diagnosis just how lucky I was to have the healthcare team around me who gave me the right advice to go forward.  By the time I was invited onto a nutrition course, I was already on the low carb diet and it was working.  Luckily, the course backed up what I'd already been doing, and having spoken to a couple of people who were there with me since, they're also finding good success.  But I know people who live in the same healthcare area as me who've had abysmal advice - one was told that she wasn't going to be given a BG meter as she wasn't trained to use it and it would just make her diabetes worse anyway.  I hope more programmes like this one go out and show the low carb diet as a positive way forward.



The course I attended was strong on medical information and quite positive about people self testing, although they did recommend urine testing, which from other information I have read may not be effective unless your bg is over a certain level.

Progressive as Dr Van Tulleken is, even he look astonished at the results of Dr Enwin's study.

I am off to research low carb bread making.  Happy Sunday, folks


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## Bubbsie (Jun 10, 2018)

Ruby/London said:


> The course I attended was strong on medical information and quite positive about people self testing, although they did recommend urine testing, which from other information I have read may not be effective unless your bg is over a certain level.
> 
> Progressive as Dr Van Tulleken is, even he look astonished at the results of Dr Enwin's study.
> 
> I am off to research low carb bread making.  Happy Sunday, folks


Low carb baking is all good Ruby


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## New-journey (Jun 10, 2018)

Ruby/London said:


> The course I attended was strong on medical information and quite positive about people self testing, although they did recommend urine testing, which from other information I have read may not be effective unless your bg is over a certain level.
> 
> Progressive as Dr Van Tulleken is, even he look astonished at the results of Dr Enwin's study.
> 
> I am off to research low carb bread making.  Happy Sunday, folks


Enjoy your research and have a Happy Sunday


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## Maz2 (Jun 10, 2018)

Beck S said:


> I didn't realise until a while after diagnosis just how lucky I was to have the healthcare team around me who gave me the right advice to go forward.  By the time I was invited onto a nutrition course, I was already on the low carb diet and it was working.  Luckily, the course backed up what I'd already been doing, and having spoken to a couple of people who were there with me since, they're also finding good success.  But I know people who live in the same healthcare area as me who've had abysmal advice - one was told that she wasn't going to be given a BG meter as she wasn't trained to use it and it would just make her diabetes worse anyway.  I hope more programmes like this one go out and show the low carb diet as a positive way forward.


Cannot see how you need to be trained to use a BG meter.  I use one and it is just straightforward.  Cannot see how it makes diabetes worse.  I would have thought if you knew what certain foods did so that you could adjust portions, cut down, cut off, whatever the person concerned prefers, it could improve things rather than worsen them.


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## Maz2 (Jun 10, 2018)

Ruby/London said:


> In any other context I wouldn't comment on people's weight either.  I work in mental health and know that weight is a complex issue, at either end of the spectrum.
> 
> I have just finished watching The Truth about Carbs and believe it is a public education in itself.  I have watched a couple of the health and diet programmes made by this doctor, one involving his identical twin, also a doctor, on the effect of fat and sugar and, as much as I would like to ignore it, the evidence is compelling.  I almost cheered when the said the low carb programme was going to be rolled out to other GPs across the country. Hopefully, the dietary element of DESMOND will be altered to reflect the new knowledge.


I was very pleased to hear that too.  Really hope the advice is going to be altered.  

A friend of mine is pre-diabetic and he told me last night he is on a course and, whilst some of it sounded very sensible, he also said he is eating low fat everything.  Another member of our party said low fat foods sometimes have more sugar and carbs in than higher fat ones, so I think the message is slowly getting through.  Reading the labels is best I think.


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## Blue flash (Jun 10, 2018)

Just watched, most of what was said I've gained from this forum already.

One thing never read about before was resistance starch/fibre the only products mentioned seemed be wholesale bread and rye bread (pumpernickel rolls from Morrison my current choice) 

Is resistance fibre something we should be concerned about to eat more of? Did bit Google only other sources seemed be high carbs ie. raw potato flour, and hi-maize flour.

Seems this fibre helps keep feeling full for longer, wonder if anyone has any experience more resistant fibre diet


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## Mark Parrott (Jun 11, 2018)

Blue flash said:


> Just watched, most of what was said I've gained from this forum already.
> 
> One thing never read about before was resistance starch/fibre the only products mentioned seemed be wholesale bread



Wholesale bread?  So as long as we buy bread in bulk we will be ok.  Seriously though, most wholemeal bread (which I know you really meant) is highly processed & uses some white flour too.  I tried a slice of pumpernickel bread & I spiked through the roof!  It was nice though.


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## Ruby/London (Jun 11, 2018)

I applied the reheat principles to two medium roast potatoes yesterday - spiked at 10.4 within 2 hours and then crashed  2.5 before bedtime.  ....Won't be doing that again.

I am doing really well with the Peter's Yard crispbreads.  I've put some protein bread in the freezer, so might get better results with that.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 11, 2018)

I think we need to consider that a big part of the problem is our GP's do not specialise in diabetes management unless it happens to be their 'thing'...they are general practitioners & will refer onwards for specialist support... .often relying on their DSN's but not every surgery has one...then it will be pot luck which approach they take...I have heard of several proactive ones (DSN's & GP's) who do support & advocate LCHF diets for type 2's...testing for T 2's...there are many more who do not...until we have a consistent approach to the management of type 2 the problems will persist...consideration of alternative approaches to our diet...the DESMOND course wasn't beneficial for me & many other members here...I have heard the XPERT course which includes T1 & T2 is better...so continuity is what we should be aiming for... some assessment of how/what these courses offer us...a little consumer research/satisfaction isn't too much to ask for...if you are fortunate enough to be directed to a forum that will offer good support & advice that can be sheer luck...surely we shouldn't have to rely on good luck to manage our diabetes.


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## Sally71 (Jun 11, 2018)

Maz2 said:


> Cannot see how you need to be trained to use a BG meter.  I use one and it is just straightforward.  Cannot see how it makes diabetes worse.  I would have thought if you knew what certain foods did so that you could adjust portions, cut down, cut off, whatever the person concerned prefers, it could improve things rather than worsen them.


You don't need training to use a meter, it takes all of about 2 minutes to be shown how to use one.  And of course it won't make diabetes worse, I think some healthcare people just trot out rubbish like that because either a) they don't know much about it themselves, or b) they are trying to avoid having to prescribe loads of expensive strips to lots of people.  Which as we all know is a false economy but they don't seem to see that, they are only interested in keeping costs down now.  I've also heard the excuse that "it will make you stressed/depressed" etc - well there might be a grain of truth in that, when my daughter was first diagnosed I used to get stressed every time she got a reading in the teens (!); but over time of course you learn to accept that occasionally things do go wrong, if you know why you can learn how to handle it better next time (which of course will help you to improve your diabetes management, not make it worse!), but sometimes it's just the diabetes fairy having a bit of fun and you just have to shrug your shoulders and carry on.

I'd actually feel quite insulted if I was a T2 getting told some of these reasons why I couldn't have a meter; anyone on insulin or other hypo-inducing meds has to learn pdq how to test their blood and what to do with the results; we all managed ok, therefore such excuses rather imply that T2s don't have a brain if they couldn't cope or couldn't make blood testing work for them!  Anyone can do it if they are given the right advice


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## Bubbsie (Jun 11, 2018)

Sally71 said:


> You don't need training to use a meter, it takes all of about 2 minutes to be shown how to use one.  And of course it won't make diabetes worse, I think some healthcare people just trot out rubbish like that because either a) they don't know much about it themselves, or b) they are trying to avoid having to prescribe loads of expensive strips to lots of people.  Which as we all know is a false economy but they don't seem to see that, they are only interested in keeping costs down now.  I've also heard the excuse that "it will make you stressed/depressed" etc - well there might be a grain of truth in that, when my daughter was first diagnosed I used to get stressed every time she got a reading in the teens (!); but over time of course you learn to accept that occasionally things do go wrong, if you know why you can learn how to handle it better next time (which of course will help you to improve your diabetes management, not make it worse!), but sometimes it's just the diabetes fairy having a bit of fun and you just have to shrug your shoulders and carry on.
> 
> I'd actually feel quite insulted if I was a T2 getting told some of these reasons why I couldn't have a meter; anyone on insulin or other hypo-inducing meds has to learn pdq how to test their blood and what to do with the results; we all managed ok, therefore such excuses rather imply that T2s don't have a brain if they couldn't cope or couldn't make blood testing work for them!  Anyone can do it if they are given the right advice


Its all about the money Sally...nothing more...however any excuse is put forward to not prescribe them for T2's non-dependent on hypo meds...after all it wouldn't look good if surgeries...GP's or DSN's were to say no we won't give them to you because we cannot justify the cost...or we don't consider you're worth the investment.


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## Sally71 (Jun 11, 2018)

I agree @Bubbsie - but either way it's insulting and not in the patient's best interests 
And when you are newly diagnosed you probably don't know enough about it to stand your ground and argue with them, after all they should know what they are talking about - how many people must there be out there though, who would willingly put the effort in to manage their diabetes better if only they were shown how, rather than just being told that the pills will fix it or that there's nothing you can do to stop it progressing!  And how many people will end up having nasty complications which are expensive for the NHS to fix, who might not have done if they had been given some better advice and tools in the beginning?!

OK I'll get off my soap box now, I know I'm preaching to the converted here!!


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## Bubbsie (Jun 11, 2018)

Sally71 said:


> I agree @Bubbsie - but either way it's insulting and not in the patient's best interests
> And when you are newly diagnosed you probably don't know enough about it to stand your ground and argue with them, after all they should know what they are talking about - how many people must there be out there though, who would willingly put the effort in to manage their diabetes better if only they were shown how, rather than just being told that the pills will fix it or that there's nothing you can do to stop it progressing!  And how many people will end up having nasty complications which are expensive for the NHS to fix, who might not have done if they had been given some better advice and tools in the beginning?!
> 
> OK I'll get off my soap box now, I know I'm preaching to the converted here!!


No not at all preaching Sally...the more that I read this the better as far as I'm concerned...I had the same start as many here had...will have...little advice...not aware just how devastating this condition is/was/could be...I came here approximately 2 year ago... got some good advice...then researched as much as I could...I had all these discussions with my GP...who openly said he knew little about diabetes when I asked him...now he says he learns a little more every time I have a review & showed me a course he was booked on about updating his knowledge of type 2...he also recommends Gretchen Becker's Book to his newly diagnosed patient's..so for me that is a little progress...although we could do with more...my advice if asked would be we  don't get insulted...we get pro-active with our HCP's...more & more attention is being given to the effect of carbs...how we can manage T2...accepted not everyone will be able to bring their conditions down to non-diabetic levels however even small changes can bring about some real improvements...it's good to hear this Sally...I hope to hear it more often.


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## Beck S (Jun 11, 2018)

Maz2 said:


> Cannot see how you need to be trained to use a BG meter.  I use one and it is just straightforward.  Cannot see how it makes diabetes worse.  I would have thought if you knew what certain foods did so that you could adjust portions, cut down, cut off, whatever the person concerned prefers, it could improve things rather than worsen them.


Me neither.  I told her that with all due respect, her GP was talking b******s and that I used mine and had great help in getting my BG levels down.


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## Martin Canty (Jun 11, 2018)

Beck S said:


> one was told that she wasn't going to be given a BG meter as she wasn't trained to use it and it would just make her diabetes worse anyway.


There are just so many things wrong with this statement..... I was never trained in the use of a BG meter (though really, need to be trained), but I attribute my very good control to being able to use the results of my testing to provide feedback into my lifestyle.... I despair at the medical  professionals that downplay the importance of testing.


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## Maz2 (Jun 11, 2018)

Bubbsie said:


> Its all about the money Sally...nothing more...however any excuse is put forward to not prescribe them for T2's non-dependent on hypo meds...after all it wouldn't look good if surgeries...GP's or DSN's were to say no we won't give them to you because we cannot justify the cost...or we don't consider you're worth the investment.


I suppose that is a point Bubbsie because there are so many people now with diabetes and pre-diabetes.  I have never known so many people with one or the other.  I am not asking my GP to pay for it as I know he won't as they have a lot of diabetics on their books I am sure so cannot afford to give strips to those who are not.  He told me he would not be able to fund a machine or strips hence why I think he suggested I did not keep testing  myself. I have bought my own and am testing as I want to try to get out of pre-diabetes again if I can and, if I can't, I want to keep as good a control as possible.  

I am lucky I suppose in that one of our GPs does have a special interest in diabetes and is a lovely guy to boot who you can sit and talk to. Even if, as I did last time, you book a 10 min appointment he does not try to get you our of the surgery. HIs surgery ended up running behind by about 30 mins because of me.  

I am going to continue to test when I try new foods to see what they do and try to keep to foods that don't cause too much of a problem.  I suppose I am lucky in that I can afford to do it (have bought an SD Codefree recommended here as AccuCheck strips a bit expensive) but I feel sorry for people who probably find it expensive to have to keep buying everything themselves.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 11, 2018)

Maz2 said:


> I suppose that is a point Bubbsie because there are so many people now with diabetes and pre-diabetes.  I have never known so many people with one or the other.  I am not asking my GP to pay for it as I know he won't as they have a lot of diabetics on their books I am sure so cannot afford to give strips to those who are not.  He told me he would not be able to fund a machine or strips hence why I think he suggested I did not keep testing  myself. I have bought my own and am testing as I want to try to get out of pre-diabetes again if I can and, if I can't, I want to keep as good a control as possible.
> 
> I am lucky I suppose in that one of our GPs does have a special interest in diabetes and is a lovely guy to boot who you can sit and talk to. Even if, as I did last time, you book a 10 min appointment he does not try to get you our of the surgery. HIs surgery ended up running behind by about 30 mins because of me.
> 
> I am going to continue to test when I try new foods to see what they do and try to keep to foods that don't cause too much of a problem.  I suppose I am lucky in that I can afford to do it (have bought an SD Codefree recommended here as AccuCheck strips a bit expensive) but I feel sorry for people who probably find it expensive to have to keep buying everything themselves.


My relationship with my GP initially was horrendous...I was newly registered there...had a very quick cursory 1st appointment with him in which he missed some serious issues... I just felt I would have to change practices...so I wrote to him...outlined how I felt & what I was unhappy with...we had a long discussion about my concerns...now two years later I wouldn't change him & would wait for an appointment with him rather than see one of the others...if your GP ran late because he prolonged your appointment obviously he felt you needed that time.


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## SB2015 (Jun 11, 2018)

Pamela Giddings said:


> Strawberries less sugar than rice? Now that's nice!


I particularly liked the look of the strawberries dipped in dark chocolate!!


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## SB2015 (Jun 11, 2018)

Vince_UK said:


> When I was first diagnosed in Sept last year the advice I was given by both the Nurse and my GP, or should I say total lack of advice, and the information I was offered was absolutely incorrect. I was leaving 2 days later for Shanghai in complete ignorance with useless guidance and to be quite honest in shock at the dx..
> There seemed to be an ethos that "ok you are T2 diabetic and there is nothing you can do about it, take the pills", what absolute crap. Without this forum and the people on it I would have been totally in the dark. As it was I gleaned everything I needed here. When I went for my first review in January this year and saw the Diabetes Doctor I registered a formal and strong complaint.  Believe me I pulled no punches, I was furious and am still angry about the whole complete incompetence. I am afraid I view it as that, incompetence. I do now know for a fact this complaint was acted upon.
> We need to be in a position to challenge what these "professionals" tell us and really fight back with facts, our own empirical data via testing etc. and experience.
> What's more, we need to tell them they are outdated.


We become the specialists by living with it dayto day. 
The training needs updating as does the advice from GPS and nurses.


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## Beck S (Jun 11, 2018)

Martin Canty said:


> There are just so many things wrong with this statement..... I was never trained in the use of a BG meter (though really, need to be trained), but I attribute my very good control to being able to use the results of my testing to provide feedback into my lifestyle.... I despair at the medical  professionals that downplay the importance of testing.


It's so daft. The really annoying thing is that she's in the same NHS trust area as me, she has access to the exact same resources/nurses as I do, but they've just never been offered to her.


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## Ruby/London (Jun 11, 2018)

Sally71 said:


> I agree @Bubbsie - but either way it's insulting and not in the patient's best interests
> And when you are newly diagnosed you probably don't know enough about it to stand your ground and argue with them, after all they should know what they are talking about - how many people must there be out there though, who would willingly put the effort in to manage their diabetes better if only they were shown how, rather than just being told that the pills will fix it or that there's nothing you can do to stop it progressing!  And how many people will end up having nasty complications which are expensive for the NHS to fix, who might not have done if they had been given some better advice and tools in the beginning?!
> 
> OK I'll get off my soap box now, I know I'm preaching to the converted here!!



When I was first diagnosed, I wasn't sure what to do.  The whole thing was like a Carry On film.  I had an ECG with a reading like Spirograph, a 24 hour blood pressure monitor that stopped working every 90 minutes and was registering top readings of 200.  Turns out the ECG and the BP monitor were both faulty.  I had to go back for another ECG, this time clear.  I have been taking my own blood pressure in the surgery and it is nothing as high as they said.  I saw a locum GP who referred me to DESMOND.  I am back on the 21st of June for a follow up and apart from that - nada.

One month on, I know if I hadn't started self testing my bg would still be all over the place.  In the last 4 weeks, I am finding out what foods I need to avoid and the right amount of carbs I can eat without spiking my bg.  In the first week, my bg readings were mostly in the 8s and sometimes a bit higher. In the second I had highs and some very low readings - too little carbs.  This last week my bg levels have ranged from 5.8 - 7 - apart from the roast tatties episode.  I am confident that when I do go back I will have some progress to report.  My question would be, how can anyone monitor their dietary changes without self testing?


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## Martin Canty (Jun 11, 2018)

Ruby/London said:


> My question would be, how can anyone monitor their dietary changes without self testing?


Exactly, Ruby..... I'm fortunate that here in the States there are no questions about testing (even though I'm limited to 2 strips per day)....


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## Sally71 (Jun 12, 2018)

Yes exactly, Ruby!  Someone on here once said that trying to control diabetes without being allowed to self test is like driving your car down the motorway without being allowed to look at the speedo at all, but still being expected to maintain an average speed of exactly 70mph if you don't want to be arrested for bad driving.  Ummm...
And yet there are people who are regularly told that their HbA1c isn't good enough and they need to improve it, but no they aren't allowed to self test because of any of the reasons mentioned above


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## Maz2 (Jun 12, 2018)

Bubbsie said:


> My relationship with my GP initially was horrendous...I was newly registered there...had a very quick cursory 1st appointment with him in which he missed some serious issues... I just felt I would have to change practices...so I wrote to him...outlined how I felt & what I was unhappy with...we had a long discussion about my concerns...now two years later I wouldn't change him & would wait for an appointment with him rather than see one of the others...if your GP ran late because he prolonged your appointment obviously he felt you needed that time.


That is a shame Bubbsie.  Good for you telling him. I am not sure I would have the guts to do so.  I suppose we are very lucky with our surgery although I am not yet diabetic so do not have experience of it from that point of view.  My neighbour is diabetic and has been for 21 years; she is with same surgery and has no problems. Another lady I know said she is well looked after but she lives in a different area to me.  You would think that with the number of people now with diabetes or pre-diabetes, and borderline diabetes they would train more nurses and doctors.  I have never known so many people either pre-diabetic, borderline or actually diabetic.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 12, 2018)

Maz2 said:


> That is a shame Bubbsie.  Good for you telling him. I am not sure I would have the guts to do so.  I suppose we are very lucky with our surgery although I am not yet diabetic so do not have experience of it from that point of view.  My neighbour is diabetic and has been for 21 years; she is with same surgery and has no problems. Another lady I know said she is well looked after but she lives in a different area to me.  You would think that with the number of people now with diabetes or pre-diabetes, and borderline diabetes they would train more nurses and doctors.  I have never known so many people either pre-diabetic, borderline or actually diabetic.


It proved to be productive Maz...my GP called me immediately after I delivered the letter...made time to see me...so all is well now...we have a good 'working' relationship...and he has made more effort as a result of the initial hiccups...wish I could say the same for the 'newish' DSN there...but since I no longer see her that is not a problem for me now.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 12, 2018)

Sally71 said:


> Yes exactly, Ruby!  Someone on here once said that trying to control diabetes without being allowed to self test is like driving your car down the motorway without being allowed to look at the speedo at all, but still being expected to maintain an average speed of exactly 70mph if you don't want to be arrested for bad driving.  Ummm...
> And yet there are people who are regularly told that their HbA1c isn't good enough and they need to improve it, but no they aren't allowed to self test because of any of the reasons mentioned above


Anyone can self test Sally...the issue for many is whether they can afford to self fund it if they do not have strips & a meter on prescription


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## Sally71 (Jun 12, 2018)

They shouldn't have to self-fund though, should they.  And they should never be told that testing is bad or not necessary, but many people are and just believe it because "the doctor knows best" and they don't know anything else about it.  That's the annoying bit, that people aren't even given the right information in the first place, to enable them to make informed decisions about how to proceed.

I don't know what to do about it though, so I'll shut up about it now!


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## Bubbsie (Jun 12, 2018)

Sally71 said:


> They shouldn't have to self-fund though, should they.  And they should never be told that testing is bad or not necessary, but many people are and just believe it because "the doctor knows best" and they don't know anything else about it.  That's the annoying bit, that people aren't even given the right information in the first place, to enable them to make informed decisions about how to proceed.
> 
> I don't know what to do about it though, so I'll shut up about it now!


Sally I agree with you & many others here who hold the same views...I have my testing strips on prescription now & have for the last year...initially I did self fund then decided on a point of principle I should have them prescribed...I spoke to my GP who said the local CCG would oppose that...after  a lengthy discussion we decided I would write to the CCG...challenge that position...so I did & was successful...there's nothing to stop other members doing that...this subject had been debated here several times...has provoked a passionate response...has been identified as a 'hot topic'...so my advice to any member who wishes to can challenge that decision...speak to your HCPs...or write to your local CCGs...it can be done.


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## weecee (Jun 12, 2018)

Re freezing bread, I usually undo the bag tie and shake up the loaf a bit to loosen the slices, then loosely tie it back up or clip it and lay in freezer.  Like others I just toast on frozen setting or thaw for a few minutes before use. No waste ever.


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