# Accu-Chek replaced by Braun Blood Glucose Monitor Nationwide????



## MattGibb5 (Sep 4, 2011)

I am new to this message board, but am pretty disgusted to see my NHS has decided to replace my prescriptions without notification from Accu-Chek Aviva to Braun's (much cheaper) monitor? 

I recently chose to upgrade my monitor to the vastly superior Expert Monitor and since doing so, my blood sugar care has been greatly enhanced. I have been reliant on the monitor kits accuracy and ability to define the amount of Bolus Insulin intake I receive and the Braun will not allow me to do this. I have written to my Health Surgery to complain about this and would ask if anyone else has gone down the same route as me or preferred to accept the inferior Braun monitor system and if so, why? I would be grateful to hear from anyone regarding this pretty important issue.

Kind regards

Matt


----------



## Robster65 (Sep 4, 2011)

Hi Matt. Welcome.

It's no something I've personally had an issue with, as yet, but wouldn't be surprised if it becomes a trend.

I have a Nano which uses the same strips. I wonder if you could put together your case and request a meeting with the PCT ?

Rob


----------



## MattGibb5 (Sep 4, 2011)

Hi Rob

thanks for responding 

I have written a letter of complaint to the Health Surgery for the lack of communication towards this rather significant issue (in my mind). I have previously used the Accu Chek Aviva Nano and that switched within the last number of months to the new monitor (Expert) and as a result, my blood sugar control has been greatly enhanced. It does mean I now have between 4 and 6 blood tests a day, but this is a necessary evil for the greater benefit. With the new Braun they have told me I "will" now use, this will no longer provide such good advice (The Expert gives a guide towards bolus insulin intake towards sugar levels). I am now quite concerned as the Braun will only require 1 test a day and this just isn't good enough and this concerns me a great deal. 

I have arranged for a meeting with my Diabetic Specialist later this week and will hoepfully get good advice as to what to do next. I have been told by my Chemists that this has been done to save money, pure and simply, but at what cost to diabetic care is the question that should be raised.

Kind regards

Matt


----------



## Northerner (Sep 4, 2011)

Hi Matt, welcome to the forum  We have had reports of surgeries/PCTs doing this sort of thing across the board in the past - often not only are the meters cheaper but the PCT does some kind of deal to get the strips even cheaper. However, given the fact that you have a perfectly valid reason for needing to use a more advanced meter, and therefore tied to using those strips, I would hope that an exception can be made. After all, if it is improving your blood sugar control and your general welfare and confidence in your diabetes management then it is helping you avoid potentially costly comlications. Good luck, it sounds like you have made some good moves. You might also want to contact PALS: http://www.pals.nhs.uk/

p.s. If you are on insulin, I would have thought you need to do a minumum of 4-6 tests a day anyway so you know how much to inject?


----------



## Pumper_Sue (Sep 4, 2011)

Hi Matt,
that stinks of lack of freedom of choice in my book.
I suspect there has been a typo or you have misread the info re 1 test a day.
http://www.bbraunap.com/doc/doc_dow...8E2A5AE62660F03B1461CCA1F9&&IRACER_AUTOLINK&&



> Omnitest Plus is easy to use:
> It only requires a 1uL blood sample with test results in only 5 seconds.
> It has a strip ejection function which reduces risk of contamination.
> It has 200 test results storage, 3 average readings function, correct ambient temperature
> detection and 5 alarm settings to ensure the user do not miss the next blood glucose test.



There are other devices that can be had to work out your insulin dosages, so don't worry on that point.

If there has not been a typo or misunderstanding re the 1 test/day. Do point out that this will put your health and life in danger and ask who you sue.

Ps welcome to the forum


----------



## Robster65 (Sep 4, 2011)

The NICE guidelines can be thrown back at them if they even dare to suggest 1 test per day.

They should allow a minimum of 4 per day, but MDI requires individual requirements to be taken into account. They could well be faced with disciplinary action if they hold firm.

Some doctors/nurses have very strong views on what is needed for control. They are very often lacking in specific education and cherry pick the studies and information they choose to take on board.

If you google NICE guidelines diabetes self testing, it should show you a table of guidelines for PCTs.

We have many expert users who are able to get the strips. The average daily usage seesm to be 6 or 7 tests per day, which is what I do.

Rob


----------



## trophywench (Sep 4, 2011)

Hold Fire chaps and chapesses.

Yes all PCT's are forever trying to save dosh on test strips.  Yes my PCT apparently says I can only have 100 strips a month, but - and this is the important bit! - my GP doesn't!

What has happened here IMHO is someone not medically qualified at the surgery has just been instructed by someone else not medically qualified to 'write to all our diabetics'  so they have.  Not having the slightest clue they haven't even sorted out the T1's from the T2's, or the T2's on insulin from the diet and exercise or the ones on hypoglycaemia inducing medication.  T1 and T2 are most definitely differently coded, but dunno if there is a coding distinction within T2, or if you have to check within the rest of the info to see what meds each person is on. 

While I was on holiday I had a letter from my surgery telling me my MOT was due and instructing me to make X number of appointments.  The letter was actually signed by Tim Tim nice but dim, the very receptionist I spoke before I even went on holiday in order to arrange the 3 appointments ready for my return .....


----------



## Robster65 (Sep 4, 2011)

Good point, if applicable to Matt's situation.

Need him to clarify the fine detail.

We have a GP who will prescribe peacock feathers if you tell him you'd like some but the DN still gives me jibes about over testing. So we saw the generous GP, who happily put "as required" on my script after nursey insisted on a box at a time.

It may just need an appointment to say how silly they're being and they'll revert to the aviva strips in sensible quantities. I hope so.

Rob


----------



## Northerner (Sep 4, 2011)

TW, I do suspect that you are right - it's far easier to blanket-mail all diabetics on their books and then see who complains - we've definitely had that issue raised before by insulin users here. Far less work for them, but also I suspect that there may be a lot of people who fill their prescriptions and then don't actually test - again, possibly because the doctors aren't spending the time with their patients to educate and check their progress properly. My GP is also very good with my prescriptions and happily raised my strips to 300 per month when I explained I needed 33% more tests than needles per prescription (I get 200 needles).


----------



## trophywench (Sep 4, 2011)

Whereas it took me a battle of wills and a table thump to get mine raised to 150 'on repeat' a few years back so have never tried to get that changed, too hard LOL - however nobody actually queries when the '6 month automatic repeat' only takes 4 months to run out ...... hopefully when the doc signing the repeat scrips that day notices I have no repeats left, they automatically renew for another 6.  If not I am sposed to make a GP appointment but I won't waste my or their time so often just ask the receptionist to request the doc to renew it anyway *please*.  They usually do.  But it's so tedious to need to be their brain as well as me own.

Amazing c-up when I started on pump and also changed make of meter (which is coincidentally the remote control, bolus wizard etc for the pump and works exactly the way that the OP's Aviva Expert machine does, except I also have a Roche pump and Bluetooth - and he hasn't) whereby they changed the scrip to the new ones, I box at a time!  - I was very legitimately just following hospital instructions and testing 8 or 10 x a day right then ...... even if I hadn't wanted to test to know what was what in any case ..... 

Pillocks.


----------



## FM001 (Sep 4, 2011)

Know nothing about Braun monitors and to be perfectly honest I've never heard of them.  Not surprising though that PCT are looking to cut costs considering the price of test strips, for those that are newly diagnosed being given a Braun meter may not be a bad thing if they are reliable, accurate and cheaper for strips as they will know no difference, those like us who are accustomed to our own brands and have a preference to what meter serves us best after years of testing will argue differently and are less inclined to  accept change or be told what meter to use.

The biggest scandal is the price of test strips, sure enough research, production and shiping costs need to be recovered and of course a profit should be made, but you do wonder what mark-up is made from each individual pot of 50.


----------



## Northerner (Sep 4, 2011)

toby said:


> ...The biggest scandal is the price of test strips, sure enough research, production and shiping costs need to be recovered and of course a profit should be made, but you do wonder what mark-up is made from each individual pot of 50.



The big scandal toby is that the strips are priced according to the market in which they are sold, so if Roche can sell strips at ?27 a box retail in this country then they will, but in other countries they may be more or less expensive so it is all about maximising profit rather than unit cost (which presumably is pretty standard, and pretty low, because they will all be manufactured at the cheapest facility, wherever in the world that is).

The same goes for most diabetic supplies (and no doubt most pharmaceutical products). I believe the major meter/strip companies have formed a cartel whereby they all agree to charge the NHS around ?15 a box for strips since the contract is so large. There was talk about a new meter/strips that was much cheaper, from India, a while back but I haven't heard much about it since - they must have come to some separate agreements with certain PCTs to provide cheaper strips exclusively.


----------



## Tezzz (Sep 4, 2011)

I wanted a replacement nano meter. Boots wanted ?16.99.

Trade price is less than ?8. I went to my pharmacy and haggled. I got it for trade + 10%.


----------



## FM001 (Sep 4, 2011)

Northerner said:


> The big scandal toby is that the strips are priced according to the market in which they are sold, so if Roche can sell strips at ?27 a box retail in this country then they will, but in other countries they may be more or less expensive so it is all about maximising profit rather than unit cost (which presumably is pretty standard, and pretty low, because they will all be manufactured at the cheapest facility, wherever in the world that is).
> 
> The same goes for most diabetic supplies (and no doubt most pharmaceutical products). I believe the major meter/strip companies have formed a cartel whereby they all agree to charge the NHS around ?15 a box for strips since the contract is so large. There was talk about a new meter/strips that was much cheaper, from India, a while back but I haven't heard much about it since - they must have come to some separate agreements with certain PCTs to provide cheaper strips exclusively.



Here what your saying Northerer and price-fixing in the pharmaceautical industry has been rife since mass production of drugs began.  I don't think it was our present government but the health minister of the last administration was going to investigate cartels and question why inexpensive drugs are sold to the nhs at such extortionate rates, have no idea if this ever seen the light of day but it does need investigating and the sooner the better.


----------



## Pumper_Sue (Sep 4, 2011)

At my previous surgery they reduced my test strips so I went in and asked for a meds review

Came to insulin and said wont be needing that no more so take it off the list 
The look on Docs face was a picture. Wanted to know why I thought I could survive without insulin, so I said same reason you think I can survive on a limited amount of test strips as I use the test strips to inject the right amount of an extremly dangerous product. 



I had my test strips reinstated


----------



## Robster65 (Sep 4, 2011)

Pumper_Sue said:


> At my previous surgery they reduced my test strips so I went in and asked for a meds review
> 
> Came to insulin and said wont be needing that no more so take it off the list
> The look on Docs face was a picture. Wanted to know why I thought I could survive without insulin, so I said same reason you think I can survive on a limited amount of test strips as I use the test strips to inject the right amount of an extremly dangerous product.
> ...


 
I want to be on your side in a fight 

Rob


----------



## Monica (Sep 4, 2011)

Pumper_Sue said:


> At my previous surgery they reduced my test strips so I went in and asked for a meds review
> 
> Came to insulin and said wont be needing that no more so take it off the list
> The look on Docs face was a picture. Wanted to know why I thought I could survive without insulin, so I said same reason you think I can survive on a limited amount of test strips as I use the test strips to inject the right amount of an extremly dangerous product.
> ...



I'll have to remember that one, if I ever need it. So far, touch wood, I always got what I asked for.


----------



## am64 (Sep 4, 2011)

Pumper_Sue said:


> At my previous surgery they reduced my test strips so I went in and asked for a meds review
> 
> Came to insulin and said wont be needing that no more so take it off the list
> The look on Docs face was a picture. Wanted to know why I thought I could survive without insulin, so I said same reason you think I can survive on a limited amount of test strips as I use the test strips to inject the right amount of an extremly dangerous product.
> ...



good one !!!


----------



## Ellie Jones (Sep 4, 2011)

Matt

How did you up-grade to your expert meter, as you can only get these via your diabetic clinic and if I'm right only a few where given out by clinics as a freebie for trial purposes as they cost ?80 a throw

If you are under a hopstial consultant or DSN get them to write to your GP and tell them you need the Aviva for th specific meter you are using.

And if your hospital team says you have to have XXX then your GP has to do as instructed


----------



## Pumper_Sue (Sep 4, 2011)

Robster65 said:


> I want to be on your side in a fight
> 
> Rob



No problem as long as I can stand behind you


----------



## sofaraway (Sep 4, 2011)

My PCT is changing over to a single brand of glucose meter as the first line meter. The strips are alot cheaper. So I have no problem with that. Although there are exceptions e.g those using a carb counting meter, those using the talking meter.

I would enquire what the exceptions are in your PCT and if you meet any of those


----------



## sofaraway (Sep 4, 2011)

Ellie Jones said:


> How did you up-grade to your expert meter, as you can only get these via your diabetic clinic and if I'm right only a few where given out by clinics as a freebie for trial purposes as they cost ?80 a throw



Experts are now free, but you have to get them through a clinic usually due to the set up


----------



## Robster65 (Sep 4, 2011)

It's a very good point by Ellie. It's precisely why I haven't got one because my DN says she can't get hold of one.

Rob


----------

