# Is it dangerous?



## Pine Marten (Jul 29, 2016)

Sorry if this question has been asked before, but I'm wondering about aspartame. I'm quite fond of the, er, odd G&T, and usually have Schweppes slimline tonic, which has no carbs but does have aspartame. My husband (not diabetic) likes sugar free lemonade from Tesco or Waitrose, which also contains it.

What is the opinion of this august gathering? Is it dangerous/poisonous, as the internet says? Would you have to drink gallons of the stuff to have an adverse effect...?

I don't want to give up my G&T, or indeed brandy & Schweppes slimline dry ginger ale...


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## Northerner (Jul 29, 2016)

I believe all the stuff about aspartame is an urban myth and perfectly safe


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## DeusXM (Jul 29, 2016)

It is dangerous if you have a specific medical condition called Phenylketonuria. The rest is largely the usual tinfoil hat brigade, although I wouldn't necessarily recommend drinking gallons of the stuff.

Put it this way; aspartame is probably the most widespread artificial sweetener in the world. If it was genuinely dangerous, we'd have seen evidence by now.


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## Jonsi (Jul 29, 2016)

Mrs Jonsi banned me from drinking bottles of fizz after reading something about this. I shall happily tell her that my diet IrnBru and diet Cream Soda are fine for me to guzzle.

One thing I don't know is how Aspartame is pronounced ...is it As-Part-Ame (Az-part-aim) , A-Sparta-Me (ah-sparta-mee) or A-Spar-Tame (Aze-par-tame)??


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## trophywench (Jul 29, 2016)

I think anyone without a specific allergy to it ie 99.99999% of us - would have to drink about a swimming pool full at least, to have any bad reaction.  I'm not about to do that - any more than about 300ml - the tonic goes flat once its opened!  And you always need enough for the 'other half' cos you don't buy a whole bottle of any mixer in a pub, and let them throw the other half of it away, do you!!  LOL


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## Diabeticliberty (Jul 29, 2016)

Jonsi said:


> Mrs Jonsi banned me from drinking bottles of fizz after reading something about this. I shall happily tell her that my diet IrnBru and diet Cream Soda are fine for me to guzzle.
> 
> One thing I don't know is how Aspartame is pronounced ...is it As-Part-Ame (Az-part-aim) , A-Sparta-Me (ah-sparta-mee) or A-Spar-Tame (Aze-par-tame)??





Irn Bru?????? Wrong 

Cream Soda????? Wrong 

Irn Bru and Cream Soda????? Wrong, wrong wrong on so many levels


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## Abi (Jul 29, 2016)

This is probably one of the few circumstances when I would gladly throttle a non diabetic. Some people think they have the right to suggest that artifical sweeteners including but not soley confined to aspartame- be banned. So while they can fill their pious gobs with so called healthy " natural" fruit juice or water - if they actually like the stuff then bully for them- but personally I like something with a bit of flavour which does not affect my blood glucose levels and can be used as a treat with no guilt, additional monitoring or insulin calculations involved. I do however worry about cola drinks as aparrently they contain phosphoric acid which " may" be bad for bone health- so I only occasionally treat myself to a diet pepsi, pepsi max, cherry pepsi max or cola zero. Don't especially like diet cola- also I through coke zerowas sweetened with sucralose but on recently checking a label, noted it was sweetend with aspartame- so if you are trying to limit consumption of the same that's one less option. Like the oringal poster I like slimline tonic water- and tastes almost as good without the gin- or so I can convince myself if driving or not trying to turn into a hardened alcoholic!. Spa orange crush zero is nice and this does not have aspartame- I think it uses Acesulfame K- has real orange juice in a very small amount so still very minimal carbs unless you drink several litres at once.
I saw a patient who had "prediabetes" who continued to drink non diet coke and hence developped full blown diabetes. ( okay I know it couldn't  be the cole cause unles he was drinking gallons of the stuff each day) but when questioned about it stated that he had not wanted to change to diet versions as aspartame is " bad for you"
What really p***ss me off is when a non diabetic smoker starts laying the law down that artificial sweeteners should be banned. ( Oh, the irony) or when a (slim  non diabetic lady) refused to buy a friend a bottle of shandy as it had diet lemonade in it - and then admitted to eating 2 cream cakes in one sitting!


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## trophywench (Jul 29, 2016)

I've always said A-Sparta-Me (ah-sparta-mee) - but Michael Moseley said ASpar-Tame (Az-par-tame) on telly - and I hated it!  LOL

In truth I don't have a clue!


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## Pine Marten (Jul 29, 2016)

Ah, thank you, kind friends! I thought it was probably a load of old codswallop but thought I'd check here. I don't consume gallons of G&T (honest, guv!) and will happily carry on, and tell Mr Marten he can have his lemonade  ...oh, and I don't know how to pronounce it either, but prefer ah-sparTA-may - Az-par-tame is just wrong!


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## trophywench (Jul 29, 2016)

ROFL - as a not so slim now, diabetic smoker with obviously self inflicted PAD - I rarely lay down the law to anyone about anything except the Eatwell Plate, the need for BG monitors for T2s and Jeremy Hunt - and I absolutely truly believe both the first and last are 'poisonous' - and the latter could easily prove to be lethal to more than just 'people'.

And - I really really doubt you'd actually disagree with me!


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## Jonsi (Jul 29, 2016)

The local Fox Hunt used to ride around the countryside until they caught the fox ...then they'd destroy it because of the damage it would do.
Can I join the Jeremy Hunt? _Tally-Ho!!_


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## Ljc (Jul 29, 2016)

If it's harmful I'm done for lol.


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## Jonsi (Jul 29, 2016)

Jonsi said:


> One thing I don't know is how Aspartame is pronounced ...is it As-Part-Ame (Az-part-aim) , A-Sparta-Me (ah-sparta-mee) or A-Spar-Tame (Aze-par-tame)??


Just to clarify ...how to pronounce Aspartame is just one thing I don't know. It is not the *only* thing I don't know. Frexample...I don't know how horses can walk and do that at the same time ...I've tried and it's not easy!


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## Ljc (Jul 29, 2016)

Jonsi said:


> The local Fox Hunt used to ride around the countryside until they caught the fox ...then they'd destroy it because of the damage it would do.
> Can I join the Jeremy Hunt? _Tally-Ho!!_


Can I join you , can I , can I, can I.


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## DeusXM (Jul 29, 2016)

You learn something new every day.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/pronunciation/english/aspartame

I always thought it was ass-PART-a-mee, but no, it's definitely ASS-per-tame.

Neither of which looks great when written out....


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## Northerner (Jul 29, 2016)

trophywench said:


> I've always said A-Sparta-Me (ah-sparta-mee) - but Michael Moseley said ASpar-Tame (Az-par-tame) on telly - and I hated it! LOL


I''m with you Jenny 

Good (and thoroughly justified!) rant @Abi !


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## Lilian (Jul 29, 2016)

So I found this:-   Another study using isolated pancreatic cells found that only those artificial sweeteners with a bitter aftertaste (acesulfame K, saccharin, stevia, and cyclamate) augmented the *insulin* response in the presence of glucose. *Aspartame*, which *does* not have a bitter aftertaste, *did* not *affect insulin*


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## everydayupsanddowns (Jul 29, 2016)

I've always been an as-par-TAME-r pronuncuation-wise. And yes, certainly not something I worry about at the level of consumption I currently have.


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## Amigo (Jul 29, 2016)

'Ass per tame' sounds somehow wrong to me because I'm absolutely convinced too much of it gives me the trots! Doesn't tame my *** 

And I absolutely refuse to believe it's the vodka to blame.


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## Robin (Jul 29, 2016)

I never know how to pronounce most drugs. Nor do the medical profession, I discovered, when three nurses pronounced Diclofenac three different ways. OH and I refer to his blood thinner as Cloppy Doggeral because it's the only way we can remember the name of the ruddy thing, though I bet it's pronounced completely differently!


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## Amigo (Jul 29, 2016)

Some medical mispronunciations are funny as are misunderstandings about what's what. A friend told me last night he had that COPD and I gasped with alarm (as he's never had chest problems). Then he rubbed his knee and said it was in his leg and hip. When I told him what COPD stood for he said, 'no, that's something else I must have heard somewhere...its Arthur-itis I have!'


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## Northerner (Jul 29, 2016)

Robin said:


> I never know how to pronounce most drugs. Nor do the medical profession, I discovered, when three nurses pronounced Diclofenac three different ways. OH and I refer to his blood thinner as Cloppy Doggeral because it's the only way we can remember the name of the ruddy thing, though I bet it's pronounced completely differently!


My favourite has to be 'thiazolidinediones'   My Dad, who suffered from psoriasis, called it 'sorry-arse-iss', although that might be how the Dutch pronounce it because he lived in Holland and got his treatment there


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## trophywench (Jul 29, 2016)

You mean Cloppy doggrell.  However my nurse pronounced it C-low-pee-drogg-ell last December when I saw her.  Oh I said, I've always pronounced it ....  Yes! she said - so did we all!  But the Drug Rep came in the other week - and that's how he said it was pronounced - so we're all trying to change how we say it now!

How about calling it "Cloppy wotsit" ? - we'll all know what we mean!


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## Northerner (Jul 29, 2016)

trophywench said:


> You mean Cloppy doggrell.  However my nurse pronounced it C-low-pee-drogg-ell last December when I saw her.  Oh I said, I've always pronounced it ....  Yes! she said - so did we all!  But the Drug Rep came in the other week - and that's how he said it was pronounced - so we're all trying to change how we say it now!
> 
> How about calling it "Cloppy wotsit" ? - we'll all know what we mean!


They should call them things like 'Richard' or 'Elsie' etc.


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## Jonsi (Jul 29, 2016)

I'm sure I went to school with Dick Lowe-Fenac. Nice chap, played Cricket left handed, always wore a cravat, even in his PJs . Ended up running away with Mr Petrie the Chemistry Master. Last heard of running a boutique hotel in Brighton.


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## Matt Cycle (Jul 29, 2016)

With regards to aspartame I've been drinking fizzy drinks with it in for the last 30 years, not every day though and I don't think I've sufffered any ill effects.  I'm grateful it exists for me to enjoy a cold drink other than water.  Prior to diet coke and the like there was One-Cal and Tab but all these drinks were obviously marketed at females.  Calling them 'diet' drinks meant as a man asking for one you would occasionally get funny looks as to why you were asking for what was considered a 'girls' drink.  

I remember being at the Glastonbury festival in 1995 and Richard Branson tried to take on Coca Cola and Pepsi with Virgin cola - it had just been launched and they had several kiosks around the site selling it in a promotional push.  Feeling thirsty one evening (it was hot that year ) I went up to one to buy a can.  Bearing in mind it only sold Virgin cola and Virgin diet cola the salesperson (a young man) said cola?  I said 'diet cola please.'  So he repeated 'diet cola?' with a quizzical look.  I said 'yes please' and he said again slowly 'd-i-e-t cola' to which I repeated 'yes please' he then placed it on the counter - 'one DIET cola' with a smirk on his face.  I didn't say anything to him but needless to say I never bought Virgin cola again.

Nowadays of course there are Pepsi Max and Coke Zero marketed at the male population.


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## AJLang (Jul 29, 2016)

My consultant's secretary wrote Domperidone as Dom Perignon - I was more than happy for that to go onto ,y prescription


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## trophywench (Jul 29, 2016)

Northerner said:


> They should call them things like 'Richard' or 'Elsie' etc.



Oy you - keep my baby Great Granddaughter out of this !!


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## Radders (Jul 29, 2016)

AJLang said:


> My consultant's secretary wrote Domperidone as Dom Perignon - I was more than happy for that to go onto ,y prescription


That's what my Mum used to call it as well.


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## Lilian (Jul 29, 2016)

I think it would be wise when out to ask for your fizzy drink to be served in the can or in the bottle.    When I had urine testing strips, I went into a cafe and ordered diet cola.    The waitress came with our order and my cola.    I put one of the tester strips in it and it went practically purple.   I complained and said that this was regular cola and not diet cola.   She did apologise and gave me another one which was diet.


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## Ljc (Jul 30, 2016)

Lilian said:


> I think it would be wise when out to ask for your fizzy drink to be served in the can or in the bottle.    When I had urine testing strips, I went into a cafe and ordered diet cola.    The waitress came with our order and my cola.    I put one of the tester strips in it and it went practically purple.   I complained and said that this was regular cola and not diet cola.   She did apologise and gave me another one which was diet.


I made a mistake not so long ago. I asked for a Diet Coke  it came in a glass, I assumed wrongly as it turned out that it was a Diet Coke. Now unless it comes in a bottle or a can I wont accept it


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## GregP (Jul 30, 2016)

aspartame has been subjected to extensive safety testing, and there is little or no credible evidence that suggests it can cause any significant health issues at normal consumption patterns.

Saying that I know if I drink more than a small amount of diet drink I get a stinking headache- which I can only attribute to the aspartame!


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## Pine Marten (Jul 30, 2016)

Tell a lie - aspartame is not in Mr Marten's lemonade, although it does contain acesulfame K, which is also in my slimline mixers. Not quite so hard to pronounce?  ...To be honest, if I'm out at a pub or restaurant, I tend to stick to red wine, to save the hassle.


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## Radders (Jul 30, 2016)

I u


Pine Marten said:


> Tell a lie - aspartame is not in Mr Marten's lemonade, although it does contain acesulfame K, which is also in my slimline mixers. Not quite so hard to pronounce?  ...To be honest, if I'm out at a pub or restaurant, I tend to stick to red wine, to save the hassle.


 I usually stick to wine when out as well, mainly because I don't like coke and my digestion can't tolerate too much fizzy stuff and I hate paying for water!


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## Ralph-YK (Jul 30, 2016)

Radders said:


> I usually stick to wine when out as well, mainly because I don't like coke and my digestion can't tolerate too much fizzy stuff and I hate paying for water!


I've heard you've to not ask for water. It comes in bottles and you've to pay for it.  You need to ask for something called tap water.  Aparentely you get charged a lot less at places for that.


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## Radders (Jul 30, 2016)

Ralph-YK said:


> I've heard you've to not ask for water. It comes in bottles and you've to pay for it.  You need to ask for something called tap water.  Aparentely you get charged a lot less at places for that.


I always order tap water with meals, but feel guilty ordering it in a pub!


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## Northerner (Jul 31, 2016)

Radders said:


> I always order tap water with meals, but feel guilty ordering it in a pub!


I was in a Wetherspoons a while ago and asked for a mineral water, and the barman said 'you can have a glass of tap water for free instead if you'd like'  So I did!


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## robert@fm (Jul 31, 2016)

GregP said:


> Saying that I know if I drink more than a small amount of diet drink I get a stinking headache- which I can only attribute to the aspartame!



I have found that I get a headache if I take too much saccharin — but not from any other sweetener.

The breakdown products of aspartame are aspartic acid and phenylalanine, plus a tiny amount of methanol;. the first two are also found naturally in nearly all foods, in vastly greater quantities than in diet drinks; so if aspartame were even a tiny fraction as toxic as the nutcases would have us believe, we would all be dead by now.  As for the methanol, some of the nutcases have seized upon that; ignoring the fact that an aspartame-sweetened diet drink has only about half the amount of methanol contained in the same size serving of fresh fruit juice, or trying to explain that away with some nonsense about "artificial" methanol being far more than twice as toxic as "natural" methanol.  (It's the same line of "logic" which likes to pretend that there's somehow some difference between "natural" and "added" sugar, or indeed between sugar and other carbs.)

Also, not only do I drink a lot of diet drinks, but my insulin (Novomix 30) is made from aspartic acid, so if there were any problems with it I would be in deep trouble. 

I remember when Coke Zero was introduced (I was in Kings College Hospital, suffering from the kidney stones which were the first warning of my CKD); I read a letter to _New Scientist_ from the president of the Soil Association (which regulates organic foods), calling on aspartame to be banned because "it has no nutritional benefit". Because of that, ever since then I have refused to buy organic food; to my mind, that letter showed that those idiots have never heard of diabetes, for as we know, type 2 is usually diagnosed in middle age (as is an increasing number of cases of type 1), by which time (thanks to the poor nutritional advice of the last 40 or so years)  the patient has usually acquired a sweet tooth which doesn't magically disappear on diagnosis; and use of sweeteners (which have been used for decades, so if there were really anything wrong with them, there would be hard scientific evidence by now) allows this tto be gratified without the use of dangerous carbohydrates.


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## Lilian (Jul 31, 2016)

I have always asked for soda water, again most pubs do not charge for this.    I do not feel guilty if I am eating there as well.    I think I would feel guilty though if we were just having a drink there.     However a soda water with a touch of lime is charged.     Unfortunately I do not like the taste of alcohol that much and resent paying for something I don't really like.


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## grovesy (Aug 1, 2016)

I have lunch out every month with a group of friends and some of them always have tap water!


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## auntiejude (Aug 1, 2016)

GregP said:


> .... I know if I drink more than a small amount of diet drink I get a stinking headache- which I can only attribute to the aspartame!


Me too. I have never been able to tolerate aspartame - migraine grade headaches ensue with as much as a glass of sugar free squash. I have tried every sweetener on the market - stevia tastes foul, sucralose is OK in cooking, polyols have embarrassing side effects (see reviews here). I now stick to water, or occasionally a glass of fruit squash without sweeteners for a treat.


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## Jonsi (Aug 1, 2016)

auntiejude said:


> ...polyols have embarrassing side effects (see reviews here).


If you want a really good laugh (at the expense of others) read the reviews


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## Rosiecarmel (Aug 1, 2016)

Northerner said:


> I was in a Wetherspoons a while ago and asked for a mineral water, and the barman said 'you can have a glass of tap water for free instead if you'd like'  So I did!



I ALWAYS get tap water in pubs and bars(except down south... Their water doesn't taste nice!) I can't remember when I last bought bottled water in an establishment. I normally just go "can I just get a glass of water please" and they hand you a glass of tap water for free


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## Pine Marten (Aug 1, 2016)

A group of us went to a local Turkish restaurant for lunch yesterday, and jugs of iced water were brought straightaway without us even asking, so it can be done


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## daxsmith05 (Jul 31, 2022)

ASPARTAME IS DANGEROUS!!!!!!!
it does cause all those things medical journals say so and so do ALL the independent tests
the only ones that call it safe are connected in some way maybe even neighbours but a connection has been found in all of them.
I have PKU and I have researched the subject thoroughly and what it causes in healthy people is just a milder version of what untreated PKU causes. Its common sense that it would do that anyway and the medical evidence proves it. There is no urban myth 
Aspartame IS dangerous!


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## Proud to be erratic (Jul 31, 2022)

Hello @daxsmith05 ,    you happen to be picking up on a thread originating in 2016; nothing wrong with that, per se. 

You clearly have a very strong view; since I drink quite a lot of non-alcoholic ginger beer that has aspartame in it I'd like to see a little more evidence to support your otherwise somewhat bald opinion.

Its hard to find very low carb drinks other than plain water that one can drink in largish quantities, to stay fully hydrated, particularly in this weather.


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## helli (Jul 31, 2022)

Proud to be erratic said:


> Its hard to find very low carb drinks other than plain water that one can drink in largish quantities, to stay fully hydrated, particularly in this weather.


I make my own ice tea to keep me cool in this weather.
I add a (usually herbal) teabag to a mug and pour enough boiling water to cover the bag. I leave it for 30 minutes, remove the bag and top up with cold water and ice. 
I find the fruit teas work best for me - berry or lemon and ginger.


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## MikeyBikey (Jul 31, 2022)

I was at a presentation by a diabetes consultant where a question about artifical sweeteners came up. He pointed out to get an equivalent dose to that the mice had received you would need to drink 30 gallons a day. He also pointed out you would be hospitalised or dead well before that and joked "Don't try this at home"!


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## daxsmith05 (Jul 31, 2022)

Perhaps you haven't hear that someone who said aspartame was safe to a regulator said to one of their friends "taking extra phenylalanine supplements in excess of diet is dangerous it can cause"... etc when asked about Phenlalanine supplements , so he lied and knew he was lying and I suggest you look closely at how regulators are manipulated or bribed to allow sale of a carcinogenic toxic substance that one of my dieticians said "worse for diabetes than sugar!!".

I believe an earlier reply from amity island goes into much more detail. I could give you many examples if I had the time.

Also you can have a PAH deficiency below the threshold for PKU and nobody would inform you as you were below the threshold as with my diabetes my HbA1c reached 41 before diagnosis, in the US etc that would be prediabetes and I take several meds that lower blood sugar so really it was higher but nobody told me because it was below the NHS cut off 

(which incidentally is far too high. Clinical definition of prediabetes is above average blood sugar due to impaired glucose regulation and by definition depends on the individual and can be as low as 35!! in some people)


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## NotWorriedAtAll (Aug 26, 2022)

Proud to be erratic said:


> Hello @daxsmith05 ,    you happen to be picking up on a thread originating in 2016; nothing wrong with that, per se.
> 
> You clearly have a very strong view; since I drink quite a lot of non-alcoholic ginger beer that has aspartame in it I'd like to see a little more evidence to support your otherwise somewhat bald opinion.
> 
> Its hard to find very low carb drinks other than plain water that one can drink in largish quantities, to stay fully hydrated, particularly in this weather.


The brands Dash and Loveau are sparkling water with natural fruit in them which are zero carbs and no sweeteners.  If I want a treat type drink I buy a box of them.  They are in aluminium cans and cardboard so the packaging is properly recyclable as well.


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## 42istheanswer (Aug 26, 2022)

Radders said:


> I always order tap water with meals, but feel guilty ordering it in a pub!


It's pubs and other establishments that serve alcohol that are required to serve free tap water!


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## 42istheanswer (Aug 26, 2022)

NotWorriedAtAll said:


> The brands Dash and Loveau are sparkling water with natural fruit in them which are zero carbs and no sweeteners.  If I want a treat type drink I buy a box of them.  They are in aluminium cans and cardboard so the packaging is properly recyclable as well.


The brand Ugly is too.

I try to mostly avoid artificial sweeteners because they are an IBS trigger for me. Thus far, since I'm newly on this journey with diabetes, that's meant I've been resisting the temptation to have sweet things other than the occasional fruit, but long term I'll be aiming towards low carb/low sugar treats that don't have sweeteners. I have long wished that manufacturers would look to gradually reduce sugar and sweetness in the "standard" versions rather than add sweeteners to maintain the sweetness, given they usually do a sugar-free version already which is available for people looking to avoid sugar altogether


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