# Hello new Type 2 HBa1C of 55....



## Mrs Mimoo (Dec 17, 2021)

Got diagnosed by accident as on way to A&E with tachycardia.... ambulance did a blood test and found my resting blood sugar was 9mmol in the morning. So I read a bit and went on the Prof Roy Taylor diet and in 6 weeks have lost 6.5kg and got the HbA1c down to 49. I was heavy (101kg) and needed to lose 15kg so i am on track. 

GP seemed not impressed but threw metformin at me by text message 'this test confirms you are diabetic'.  in fact I believe that these tests confirms that I can lower my blood glucose by dieting? 

Question: metformin pack says dont take this med if you are on a vlcd or diet of below 1000 calories a day. I am on 800 calories.  What will happen if i take the metformin as instructed by GP who didn't even listen to me and wont' see me face to face.


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## Leadinglights (Dec 17, 2021)

I think you would be wise to ask your GP for another  HbA1C test to see if your dietary changes have brought it down further. At 49mmol/mol I would hope your GP will give you the opportunity to keep on with your dietary changes which are going to be just as important as taking metformin, as metformin only helps the body use the insulin it produces more effectively.
Without knowing what your HbA1C is now (this gives an average blood glucose level over 3 months) you don't know if metformin is appropriate. 
It is your decision whether to take the medication.


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## Mrs Mimoo (Dec 17, 2021)

Thank you. I have asked the GP by email if I can take it with the VLCD i am (successfully) on.  the drug leaflet says no.....


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## ianf0ster (Dec 17, 2021)

Hi @Mrs Mimoo and welcome to the forum
Most people using either major method to control Type 2 diabetes (either the 800 calorie diets or those just eating a Low Carbohydrate way of eating ) have no actual need for diabetes medications.
Metformin can in some/many cause bad cases of 'the trots'. Worse if not taken with a decent amount of food.

If you are happy with your 800 calorie diet, then I suggest you ignore the metformin for now since in any case it doesn't have a huge effect on its own - much less than modifying what you eat will do.


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## Mrs Mimoo (Dec 17, 2021)

ianf0ster said:


> Hi @Mrs Mimoo and welcome to the forum
> Most people using either major method to control Type 2 diabetes (either the 800 calorie diets or those just eating a Low Carbohydrate way of eating ) have no actual need for diabetes medications.
> Metformin can in some/many cause bad cases of 'the trots'. Worse if not taken with a decent amount of food.
> 
> If you are happy with your 800 calorie diet, then I suggest you ignore the metformin for now since in any case it doesn't have a huge effect on its own - much less than modifying what you eat will do.


Thanks I have had no useful information from the GP so am now relying on these forums.


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## Mrs Mimoo (Dec 17, 2021)

I am occasionally eating a 'meal' but it consists of a steamed salmon steak or a small piece of chicken, and some green veg. I don't have a meter or anything. Is it worth me getting a glucose tester meter and some lancets or just wait for next HbA1C? I find 800 calories very manageable and the weight loss is gratifying. My target is to lose 15kg

My problem is the GP does not believe in remission he says i'll always be diabetic; its like a sort of fatalism throw meformin at me and walk away. I want to beat this with diet changes and weight loss.


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## trophywench (Dec 17, 2021)

Well in a lot of ways he's right - if remission is achieved, should the person go back o their way of eating and lifestyle that pertained pre diagnosis, then the HbA1c is likely to shoot up again.  That attitude doesn't cater for anyone actually adopting the 'new way' long term though!

I'd be more than happy to stay a T2 treated by diet and exercise and get all the annual checks that we get every year - eyes, weight, BP, toe tickling, blood tests for this that and the other - cos especially now, we can't just nip in and see a GP when we feel a bit 'off' can we?


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## Mrs Mimoo (Dec 17, 2021)

trophywench said:


> Well in a lot of ways he's right - if remission is achieved, should the person go back o their way of eating and lifestyle that pertained pre diagnosis, then the HbA1c is likely to shoot up again.  That attitude doesn't cater for anyone actually adopting the 'new way' long term though!
> 
> I'd be more than happy to stay a T2 treated by diet and exercise and get all the annual checks that we get every year - eyes, weight, BP, toe tickling, blood tests for this that and the other - cos especially now, we can't just nip in and see a GP when we feel a bit 'off' can we?


How is he right? he told me type 2 remission is a myth and I'll always be diabetic. But a modest weight loss of 6.2kg has brought my HbA1C down to borderline...I think it will go down more with more weight loss. Plus, I have no intention of ever eating lots of carbs, chips or pasta ever again or putting the weight back on  - I'll be on a Med low carb regime for ever. I've learned my lesson the hard way.  I can see clear gains from eating a low carb high protein high veg diet from now on. It is filling and healthy. 

I have not seen my GP in person for two years. I have had no blood tests for two years prior to this diagnosis which is probably why I am now diabetic....I might have caught it if they'd tested me last year when I was presumably pre diabetic.

I would not describe tachycardia as feeling 'a bit off' but they would not see me face to face for that either. I had to pay to go and see a private cardiologist to obtain a diagnosis and some reassurance, and self prescribe beta blockers after two trips to Casualty. Only then a lame email from the GP to put me on some better beta blockers.... this is not medical care it's a car crash.


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## rebrascora (Dec 17, 2021)

Sadly, many GPs and health Care Professionals in general mostly have no idea of the power of dietary changes and see diabetes very much as a progressive condition. This may well be because the NHS dietary advice has not been helpful to Type 2 diabetics and until recent years with the likes of Prof Roy Taylor and Michael Mosely shining more media attention on what can be achieved and the likes of this forum sharing positive experiences, people were unlikely to achieve any success by following clinical advice. You also have to remember that there are a lot of people who are sadly not motivated to change and because diabetes can often have no obvious symptoms, people bury their heads in the sand and assume it can't be all that bad, until the damage to their sight or their feet becomes apparent. I guess it must be quite demoralising for Health Care Professionals to regularly treat such people. Not making excuses for your doctors attitude but just trying to explain it. 
I think the tide is starting to turn with the NHS attitude through individuals like Dr David Unwin but the NHS organisation and government are committed to the Low Fat advice they have been perpetuating for decades and that is unlikely to change any time soon and that is the root problem with promoting a low carb way of eating as it is calorie deficient for the long term without increasing fat intake. I think Roy Taylor's work gets around it by going very low calorie for an initial period but it is the difficulty in maintaining the weight loss which most likely means it won't work for everyone long term, particularly YoYo dieters. The Low Carb Higher Fat way of eating on the other hand is a change for life and is satisfying and prevents the cravings which often derail people. As someone who has done Low Calorie and Low GI successfully, but then put it back on, the Low Carb High Fat way of eating is sustainable for me for the rest of my life because I enjoy it, it stops the cravings, I need less food, I have control over my disordered eating, and I feel fitter and slimmer and healthier than I have for 20+ years. 

If you feel that you can maintain your weight loss once you hit your target via Prof. Roy Taylor's work then that is right for you, so don't let your GP bring you down and make him eat his words. 
You don't have to take the Metformin if you don't want to and at your HbA1c levels many GPs would not prescribe them and if they are contraindicated on the Patient information leaflet then I think it is perfectly reasonable not to take them unless your GP can give you a very good reason why you should.

Good luck to you and I have every faith that we will soon be celebrating a sub 48 HbA1c after your next blood test.


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## Lily123 (Dec 17, 2021)

Welcome to the forum! You should definitely get yourself a BG meter _and the two most recommended here for price are the _Sprit Healthcare Tee2 and the Gluco Navii. That isn’t a very positive view from your GP about getting your T2 into remission.


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## Mrs Mimoo (Dec 17, 2021)

Lily123 said:


> Welcome to the forum! You should definitely get yourself a BG meter _and the two most recommended here for price are the _Sprit Healthcare Tee2 and the Gluco Navii. That isn’t a very positive view from your GP about getting your T2 into remission.


They have been really bad GPs all round TBH but the awful system here in the UK means I can't change as there are no others near my house (with better ratings).  I am now considering going private to find a diabetes specialist who does 'get it'.  I had to do this with cardiology when my GP refused to see me or help me much with the tachycardia..... lucky for me my cousin is a GP and one of the forward thinking ones. he's said almost identical to what people on here have said = keep on dieting to see if that normalises HbA1C and retest in 3 months. He advised against the metformin given that i was making progress. I will obtain a meter and lancet kit. thanks for positivity.


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## Mrs Mimoo (Dec 17, 2021)

rebrascora said:


> Sadly, many GPs and health Care Professionals in general mostly have no idea of the power of dietary changes and see diabetes very much as a progressive condition. This may well be because the NHS dietary advice has not been helpful to Type 2 diabetics and until recent years with the likes of Prof Roy Taylor and Michael Mosely shining more media attention on what can be achieved and the likes of this forum sharing positive experiences, people were unlikely to achieve any success by following clinical advice. You also have to remember that there are a lot of people who are sadly not motivated to change and because diabetes can often have no obvious symptoms, people bury their heads in the sand and assume it can't be all that bad, until the damage to their sight or their feet becomes apparent. I guess it must be quite demoralising for Health Care Professionals to regularly treat such people. Not making excuses for your doctors attitude but just trying to explain it.
> I think the tide is starting to turn with the NHS attitude through individuals like Dr David Unwin but the NHS organisation and government are committed to the Low Fat advice they have been perpetuating for decades and that is unlikely to change any time soon and that is the root problem with promoting a low carb way of eating as it is calorie deficient for the long term without increasing fat intake. I think Roy Taylor's work gets around it by going very low calorie for an initial period but it is the difficulty in maintaining the weight loss which most likely means it won't work for everyone long term, particularly YoYo dieters. The Low Carb Higher Fat way of eating on the other hand is a change for life and is satisfying and prevents the cravings which often derail people. As someone who has done Low Calorie and Low GI successfully, but then put it back on, the Low Carb High Fat way of eating is sustainable for me for the rest of my life because I enjoy it, it stops the cravings, I need less food, I have control over my disordered eating, and I feel fitter and slimmer and healthier than I have for 20+ years.
> 
> If you feel that you can maintain your weight loss once you hit your target via Prof. Roy Taylor's work then that is right for you, so don't let your GP bring you down and make him eat his words.
> ...


So, thank you very much for the really useful practical advice and support. I did low carb higher (good) fat in 2015 when I needed to lose weight for my life insurance application.  It worked. Lost 5kg....easily. and normalised by blood sugar, blood pressure, weight and blood cholesterols went to super good. 

The only reason I fell off the wagon was that I didn't realise the seriousness of my HbA1C at that time - 42.... and I had lots of distractions - work stress, moving house, lock down, death of my father and my uncle in 6 months, chronic migraines 24 days a month.....(now on Ajovy which is controlling migraines)  so I passively ignored the weight gain. *I won't do that again.*

I am totally comitted to doing low carb high protein/good fat/green things as soon as I reach my target.

Mrs M.


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## rebrascora (Dec 17, 2021)

Mrs Mimoo said:


> thank you for the advice and support. I did low carb higher (good) fat in 2015 when I needed to lose weight.  It worked. Lost 5kg....easily. and normalised by blood sugar, blood pressure, weight and blood lipids.  The only reason I fell off the wagon was that I didn't realise the seriousness of my HbA1C at that time - 42.... and I had lots of distractions - work stress, moving house, lock down, chronic migraines 24 days a month..... so I ignored the weight gain. I won't do that again.


That is unfortunate re your migraines and stress/moving house etc but can totally understand struggling to prioritize diet in that situation. I had suffered migraines for 20+ years although thankfully just averaged one or two a month but they were extremely severe including vomiting and diarrheoa and occasionally passing out. Amazingly they stopped immediately when I went low carb and not had one since and it is nearly 3 years..... and I can drink the odd glass of red wine now without any problem, which was my only known trigger. In fact there have been a number of health benefits to come from LCHF including less joint pain. Shame it didn't work out for you but it sounds like the very low calorie approach is working, so very well done with that.


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## rebrascora (Dec 17, 2021)

The BG meter kits come with a lancing device and usually 10 lancets and 10 test strips but you will go through those in no time at all so do order at least 2 extra pots of 50 test strips to get you going and do tick the box to confirm you are diabetic so that the VAT is deducted. I think the Gluco Navii is currently the cheapest for test strips and found to be reliable and cost effective by members here who self fund. Many of us reuse the lancets multiple times as long as the lancing device is ONLY going to be used on ourselves, but it depends how scrupulous you want to be as they are designed to be single use. We have a standing joke about changing our lancet annually on St Swithin's day.... but I usually change mine twice a day, New years day being the other occasion.... decadent I know!! The medical advice is to change the lancet each time. You should also buy a small sharps box to dispose of the lancets safely.


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## Mrs Mimoo (Dec 17, 2021)

rebrascora said:


> The BG meter kits come with a lancing device and usually 10 lancets and 10 test strips but you will go through those in no time at all so do order at least 2 extra pots of 50 test strips to get you going and do tick the box to confirm you are diabetic so that the VAT is deducted. I think the Gluco Navii is currently the cheapest for test strips and found to be reliable and cost effective by members here who self fund. Many of us reuse the lancets multiple times as long as the lancing device is ONLY going to be used on ourselves, but it depends how scrupulous you want to be as they are designed to be single use. We have a standing joke about changing our lancet annually on St Swithin's day.... but I usually change mine twice a day, New years day being the other occasion.... decadent I know!! The medical advice is to change the lancet each time. You should also buy a small sharps box to dispose of the lancets safely.


I just ordered a Gluconavi with extra lancet thingies and test strips. I have a sharp bin as I have to inject myself once a month with the migraine med.

I take it the point of the meter is to see what your glucose levels are before, and then 2 hours after eating> i have no GP advice. I don't know what is a good or bad glucose level but will google.... 

Strangely I have had fewer migraines since going on VLCD low carb, and also fewer other things like heartburn. It's a winwin. But being on Bisprolol beta blocker may also help me with the migraines.


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## Lily123 (Dec 17, 2021)

Yeah that’s right. The idea of the BG meter is to see what effect certain food have on your blood glucose level.


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## Windy (Dec 17, 2021)

There's information on blood glucose levels here if you've not googled it yet. I'm also following an 800 calorie a day diet (I've read both of Roy Taylor's books) and am on metformin. The notes inside the pill box says to "eat sufficient carbohydrates", but didn't give any more information than that! I've not had any digestive issues with the low cal diet and the metformin, so hopefully, it'll stay that way.
Glad to hear that it's going well for you @Mrs Mimoo, let us all know what happens when you have your next HbA1c done. Cheers, Sarah


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## everydayupsanddowns (Dec 17, 2021)

Mrs Mimoo said:


> How is he right? he told me type 2 remission is a myth and I'll always be diabetic. But a modest weight loss of 6.2kg has brought my HbA1C down to borderline...I think it will go down more with more weight loss. Plus, I have no intention of ever eating lots of carbs, chips or pasta ever again or putting the weight back on - I'll be on a Med low carb regime for ever. I've learned my lesson the hard way. I can see clear gains from eating a low carb high protein high veg diet from now on. It is filling and healthy.



Sounds like you’ve had a pretty frustrating time @Mrs Mimoo 

I think the concept of diabetes remission is quite new, and not all HCPs have really experienced it first hand, and still fall back into the thinking of diabetes being inevitably progressive.

Prof Taylor’s research has been quite exciting, in terms of observing  ‘kick starting’ of the pancreas following weight loss, but also we have members who have successfully managed their BG levels long term (in some cases over decades) by following a moderate or lower carbohydrate way of eating.

Sadly as others have said many HCPs see lots and lots of people who don’t seem able to make significant changes to their menu, certainly for long. And society seems fixated on short term dieting ‘fixes’ then returning to old habits, rather than your determination to make a lasting change to your way of eating.

If you are concerned about metformin on your reduced calorie diet, and don’t find your GP very helpful, perhaps you could ask the qualified pharmacist in your local chemists? They should have all the latest information about drug interactions, precautions, and best practice.


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## Mrs Mimoo (Dec 17, 2021)

Windy said:


> There's information on blood glucose levels here if you've not googled it yet. I'm also following an 800 calorie a day diet (I've read both of Roy Taylor's books) and am on metformin. The notes inside the pill box says to "eat sufficient carbohydrates", but didn't give any more information than that! I've not had any digestive issues with the low cal diet and the metformin, so hopefully, it'll stay that way.
> Glad to hear that it's going well for you @Mrs Mimoo, let us all know what happens when you have your next HbA1c done. Cheers, Sarah


Hi Windy, I have looked at those pages and now I can see what I should be. I look forward to receiving my gluconavi.  I am quite enjoying the 800 cal diet as it is working!


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## Mrs Mimoo (Dec 17, 2021)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Sounds like you’ve had a pretty frustrating time @Mrs Mimoo
> 
> I think the concept of diabetes remission is quite new, and not all HCPs have really experienced it first hand, and still fall back into the thinking of diabetes being inevitably progressive.
> 
> ...


I have IBS so i'm really concerned about having been given the cheapest nastiest Metformin there is, and not a modified release version.  Many drugs upset my digestion i am really concerned about this one!


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## Lily123 (Dec 17, 2021)

I have known of a fair few T2s on this forum who have had stomach problems due to metformin. If this happens to you, you could ask for the slow release version of metformin which shouldn’t cause too bad side effects.( they just don’t give slow release straight away as it’s more expensive)


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## Mrs Mimoo (Dec 17, 2021)

Lily123 said:


> I have known of a fair few T2s on this forum who have had stomach problems due to metformin. If this happens to you, you could ask for the slow release version of metformin which shouldn’t cause too bad side effects.( they just don’t give slow release straight away as it’s more expensive)


yeah i heard you had to suffer and then you might get the syrup version or Sukkarto.  I hope I am ok.


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## Leadinglights (Dec 17, 2021)

Mrs Mimoo said:


> I have IBS so i'm really concerned about having been given the cheapest nastiest Metformin there is, and not a modified release version.  Many drugs upset my digestion i am really concerned about this one!


I would double check with your pharmacist if you intend to actually take the metformin that there are no contra-indications with the bisoprolol you take.
Also mention your IBS, but I wouldn't rush to take it without checking first.


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## Mrs Mimoo (Dec 17, 2021)

Leadinglights said:


> I would double check with your pharmacist if you intend to actually take the metformin that there are no contra-indications with the bisoprolol you take.
> Also mention your IBS, but I wouldn't rush to take it without checking first.


Good idea I will do that.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Dec 17, 2021)

Mrs Mimoo said:


> I have IBS so i'm really concerned about having been given the cheapest nastiest Metformin there is, and not a modified release version.  Many drugs upset my digestion i am really concerned about this one!



I have heard it suggested that higher doses of Metformin (1500-2000mg) are generally felt to be more effective.






						Quantifying the Effect of Metformin Treatment and Dose on Glycemic Control | Diabetes Care | American Diabetes Association
					

OBJECTIVE. Metformin is the first-line oral medication recommended for glycemic control in patients with type 2 diabetes. We reviewed the literature to quantify




					care.diabetesjournals.org
				




I’m not sure what dose you have been started on, but it might be that if it is still a lower dose, it may not be having all that much effect?


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## Mrs Mimoo (Dec 18, 2021)

Mrs Mimoo said:


> Good idea I will do that.



I will definatley have to delay the metformin. I take topamax for migraine and just noticed this warning not to mix them. The GP should know that i am on Topirimate so I am quite perplexed. 

_Using Metformin together with topiramate may increase the risk of a rare but serious and potentially life-threatening condition known as lactic acidosis, which is a buildup of lactic acid in the blood that can occasionally occur during treatment with metformin-containing products._


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## Mrs Mimoo (Dec 18, 2021)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> I have heard it suggested that higher doses of Metformin (1500-2000mg) are generally felt to be more effective.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


he gave me 500mg for one week then up it to 1000.


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## Leadinglights (Dec 18, 2021)

If you are prepared to make dietary changes then maybe you should suggest to your G P that you be given 3 months to reduce your HbA1C without any medication as 55mmol/mol although in the diabetic zone is not desperately high.


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## Burylancs (Dec 18, 2021)

Mrs Mimoo said:


> How is he right? he told me type 2 remission is a myth and I'll always be diabetic. But a modest weight loss of 6.2kg has brought my HbA1C down to borderline...I think it will go down more with more weight loss. Plus, I have no intention of ever eating lots of carbs, chips or pasta ever again or putting the weight back on  - I'll be on a Med low carb regime for ever. I've learned my lesson the hard way.  I can see clear gains from eating a low carb high protein high veg diet from now on. It is filling and healthy.
> 
> I have not seen my GP in person for two years. I have had no blood tests for two years prior to this diagnosis which is probably why I am now diabetic....I might have caught it if they'd tested me last year when I was presumably pre diabetic.
> 
> I would not describe tachycardia as feeling 'a bit off' but they would not see me face to face for that either. I had to pay to go and see a private cardiologist to obtain a diagnosis and some reassurance, and self prescribe beta blockers after two trips to Casualty. Only then a lame email from the GP to put me on some better beta blockers.... this is not medical care it's a car crash.


Yes , Type 2 remission is a myth, your Doc's right. Its become a buzzword over the last ten years but essentially 'remission of Type 2 Diabetes' is Fake News. Annoyingly it's replacing the more sensible term of 'Good Control.' The return to 'normal' cherished by many newbies  is an impossible fantasy at the current level of knowledge. Its proponents cant even agree what it means - a recent consensus statement on 'remission', including Diabetes UK, defines it as hba1c of 48 and no anti-glycemic meds for three months.  Prof Taylor defined it as those two things PLUS no anti-hypertensive drugs. That definition looks really dangerous because high blood pressure is a real danger in Type 2 and one of the core components of the Metabolic Syndrome.
And no you haven't 'caught' Type 2, its been in your genes since conception waiting to be triggered. Anyone dxed with Type 2 just made a very poor choice of grandparents.


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## Windy (Dec 18, 2021)

@Burylancs it's not unknown for scientists disagree on a particular definition. So for diabetes remission, I found a paper published this year:
Kalra, S., Singal, A. and Lathia, T., 2021. What’s in a name? Redefining type 2 diabetes remission. Diabetes Therapy, pp.1-8.
which states: "However, the definition of diabetes remission has not been agreed upon at a global level." but also goes on to say:
"Type 2 diabetes remission is defined as a healthy clinical state characterized by achievement of HBA1c below the targeted level, maintained for at least 6 months, with or without continued use of lifestyle modification and/or metformin, provided that this is not due to complications, comorbid conditions or concomitant therapy".

which conflicts with:
Buse, J.B., Caprio, S., Cefalu, W.T., Ceriello, A., Del Prato, S., Inzucchi, S.E., McLaughlin, S., Phillips, G.L., Robertson, R.P., Rubino, F. and Kahn, R., 2009. _How do we define cure of diabetes?_. Diabetes care, 32(11), pp.2133-2135.
who state:
"Complete remission is a return to “normal” measures of glucose metabolism (A1C in the normal range, fasting glucose <100 mg/dl [5.6 mmol/l]) of at least 1 year's duration in the absence of active pharmacologic therapy or ongoing procedures."

and also conflicts with: Lean, M.E., Leslie, W.S., Barnes, A.C., Brosnahan, N., Thom, G., McCombie, L., Peters, C., Zhyzhneuskaya, S., Al-Mrabeh, A., Hollingsworth, K.G. and Rodrigues, A.M., 2018. Primary care-led weight management for remission of type 2 diabetes (DiRECT): an open-label, cluster-randomised trial. The Lancet, 391(10120), pp.541-551.
"remission of diabetes, defined as glycated haemoglobin (HbA1c) of less than 6·5% (<48 mmol/mol) after at least 2 months off all antidiabetic medications, from baseline to 12 months."

Taylor's paper Taylor, R., Ramachandran, A., Yancy, W.S. and Forouhi, N.G., 2021. Nutritional basis of type 2 diabetes remission. _bmj_, _374_.
says "Remission is durable provided weight regain is avoided" and "Type 2 diabetes can be reversed by substantial weight loss in the early years after diagnosis"

I disagree that it's fake news, though I appreciate it may just be rebadging of "good control" that you mention. The last study in particular, linked remission to weight loss, and the participants who didn't get remission got better control of their diabetes, which is a win as far as I'm concerned. 
I conceed that it might just be wishful thinking by newbie diabetics such as myself, but the BMJ and The Lancet are well respected medical journals, so I doubt they'd have published two of the papers if they didn't think they were scientifically robust.
Anyhow, you look after yourself and have a good Christmas, Sarah


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## Mrs Mimoo (Dec 18, 2021)

Burylancs said:


> Yes , Type 2 remission is a myth, your Doc's right. Its become a buzzword over the last ten years but essentially 'remission of Type 2 Diabetes' is Fake News. Annoyingly it's replacing the more sensible term of 'Good Control.' The return to 'normal' cherished by many newbies  is an impossible fantasy at the current level of knowledge. Its proponents cant even agree what it means - a recent consensus statement on 'remission', including Diabetes UK, defines it as hba1c of 48 and no anti-glycemic meds for three months.  Prof Taylor defined it as those two things PLUS no anti-hypertensive drugs. That definition looks really dangerous because high blood pressure is a real danger in Type 2 and one of the core components of the Metabolic Syndrome.
> And no you haven't 'caught' Type 2, its been in your genes since conception waiting to be triggered. Anyone dxed with Type 2 just made a very poor choice of grandparents.


1. None of my grandparents had diabetes of any kind and as they are dead i'd rather you didn't disrespect them.
2. I disagree that you can't be in remission as I've read as many papers on it as I can since diagnosis. It seems to depend on keeping your weight under your personal fat threshold. It does not work for everyone. If it does, If you lose lots of weight fast, within 5 years of diagnosis this can work. I'm not saying it will work for ever, but it seems like a good thing to do anyway.
3. I'm new to this - it's been a month since diagnosis so perhaps you could be a bit more reasonable?


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## Mrs Mimoo (Dec 18, 2021)

Leadinglights said:


> If you are prepared to make dietary changes then maybe you should suggest to your G P that you be given 3 months to reduce your HbA1C without any medication as 55mmol/mol although in the diabetic zone is not desperately high.


I did suggest this but got a curt text message and a script for metformin.


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## Lily123 (Dec 18, 2021)

@Burylancs T2 diabetics can go into remission and saying that genes are the only cause waiting to be triggered is wrong and could really upset someone.


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## Windy (Dec 18, 2021)

I guess it comes down to if you're willing to believe a professor who studies diabetes at a diabetes research centre at a university and has run multiple clinical trials on remission and the NHS who are running trials of the diet in England about which the web page says "in some cases, put their Type 2 diabetes into remission (no longer have diabetes)" or not. I did wonder if he was a snake oil salesman, but he's not selling the shakes, and he's donated the proceeds from his books to Diabetes UK, so he's not gaining financially there either.

I'd rather give it a go and try for remission than not. At worst, it doesn't work and I've lost a bit of weight and have better control of my blood sugar levels, at best it does work and I have to continue to lose weight and keep it off, but have normal blood sugar levels.


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## Leadinglights (Dec 18, 2021)

Mrs Mimoo said:


> I did suggest this but got a curt text message and a script for metformin.


Yes but it is your decision whether you take it, and hopefully you will be able to prove him wrong.


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## ianf0ster (Dec 19, 2021)

It isn't just Prof Taylor saying about lasting T2 Diabetes remission, it's also the Low Carb exponents in the UK (Dr David Unwin etc. ) , in Australia (Dr Paul Mason. Dr Gary Fettke etc) , in South Africa (Prof Tim Noakes ), in the USA (the Virta doctors including Volek and Sarah Hallberg)  and from Canada a proponent of fasting which is a more extreme version of vlcd or Low Carb for the morbidly obese ( Dr Jason Fung). All of the above mentioned including Prof Taylor have agreed a definition of the term Type  2 Diabetes remission, in the last couple of months. 
And there are people who have met that definition for over 10yrs - so don't let anybody try to persuade you that it's a myth!


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## Drummer (Dec 19, 2021)

I am classed as in remission, and I got to the state where I don't spike when I eat carbs - BUT - and it is a big BUT - if I eat carbs over my self imposed 40 gm of carbs a day I put on weight - it has always been the same, and I have battled with those who tell me that I am wrong about it - I just need to keep on eating the carbs in small amounts and it will all come right - though one or two have been alarmed by my chalk white appearance and inability to understand what is going on when in starvation mode after following orders for a few weeks. 
One did order me to exercise and only relented when I went grey and passed out.


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## janw (Dec 19, 2021)

@Mrs Mimoo Hello. I am still fairly new to T2 but as you will see from my signature, our result at diagnosis was pretty much the same. I said I did not want the meds but to try diet and exercise, there is nothing to stop you from trying that way, they cannot make you take the metformin. My DN is well aware that I do not like meds (nor do most like me!), so they are a "last resort" for me, and she is happy to let me continue without until I see her next April - by which time I hope that I have returned to prediabetic. I appreciate that this new eating and exercise regime, plus carb counting, will be for life, but that is no bad thing when we can see how much healthier it is for us and the benefits that come with it. 
You have been given some good advice on the whole. Once you get your meter you will start to feel even more in control of what you can eat, adjustments of or alternatives to try. 
We are all individuals and things affect all of us differently, that is why we test a lot to start with, perhaps also when we don't feel "right" or unwell, or when we try something new - because there is no rule for all, we have to find our own paths. 
I hope you find, and take, the path that is right for you - we will be here to support you in any way we can. I would be lost without this site, it has been a blessing in providing so much understanding and knowledge, friendship and empowerment.


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## Mrs Mimoo (Dec 19, 2021)

janw said:


> @Mrs Mimoo Hello. I am still fairly new to T2 but as you will see from my signature, our result at diagnosis was pretty much the same. I said I did not want the meds but to try diet and exercise, there is nothing to stop you from trying that way, they cannot make you take the metformin. My DN is well aware that I do not like meds (nor do most like me!), so they are a "last resort" for me, and she is happy to let me continue without until I see her next April - by which time I hope that I have returned to prediabetic. I appreciate that this new eating and exercise regime, plus carb counting, will be for life, but that is no bad thing when we can see how much healthier it is for us and the benefits that come with it.
> You have been given some good advice on the whole. Once you get your meter you will start to feel even more in control of what you can eat, adjustments of or alternatives to try.
> We are all individuals and things affect all of us differently, that is why we test a lot to start with, perhaps also when we don't feel "right" or unwell, or when we try something new - because there is no rule for all, we have to find our own paths.
> I hope you find, and take, the path that is right for you - we will be here to support you in any way we can. I would be lost without this site, it has been a blessing in providing so much understanding and knowledge, friendship and empowerment.


Hi there! thank you and yes, our profiles look similar!  I have just had a mail from the *actual *Professor Taylor (I am amazed and so pleased he mailed me) saying _I am on the right track_.... I emailed him and he mailed back. He says my lowered HbA1C in one month of weight loss shows I will probably hit my target as long as I keep losing weight on the Newcastle Diet and see where it takes me. He has told me to lose 15kg so I will. Feeling a bit better today.


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## Mrs Mimoo (Dec 26, 2021)

weight loss now 8kg....down to 93... that target of 15kg is achievable. Merry Christmas to all.


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## Mrs Mimoo (Dec 26, 2021)

ianf0ster said:


> It isn't just Prof Taylor saying about lasting T2 Diabetes remission, it's also the Low Carb exponents in the UK (Dr David Unwin etc. ) , in Australia (Dr Paul Mason. Dr Gary Fettke etc) , in South Africa (Prof Tim Noakes ), in the USA (the Virta doctors including Volek and Sarah Hallberg)  and from Canada a proponent of fasting which is a more extreme version of vlcd or Low Carb for the morbidly obese ( Dr Jason Fung). All of the above mentioned including Prof Taylor have agreed a definition of the term Type  2 Diabetes remission, in the last couple of months.
> And there are people who have met that definition for over 10yrs - so don't let anybody try to persuade you that it's a myth!


I have now had an email from the actual Professor Taylor (I was so suprised) and he's saying I'm on the right track and my blood tests prove it. This and you guys makes me feel I am going to get there...


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## Lily123 (Dec 26, 2021)

Mrs Mimoo said:


> weight loss now 8kg....down to 93... that target of 15kg is achievable. Merry Christmas to all.


That’s a good achievement!


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## Mrs Mimoo (Dec 26, 2021)

Lily123 said:


> That’s a good achievement!


I have also acquired a testing kit - gluconavi. I'll have a go tomorrow at a wake up blood sugar reading (it was 9mmol before food at 0700 when I was diagnosed) and see what it is now. And then before food and after food (two hours). First meeting with diabetic nurse on 4 Jan.  Hoping she's enlightened and won't give me the stupid eat well plate basic rubbish as I am now committed to low carb, done with pasta rice and bread, and will stay on my VLCD until i hit 15kg loss. Then i will go on a 1000 to 1200 cal a day low carb regime.... to maintain my weight. There will be no beige food for me.  I ate 850 cals on xmas day and my trouser belt is three notches down.

Not tried the metformin as I have IBS and drug complications. But might do at some point. I really want the slow release ones !


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## Lily123 (Dec 26, 2021)

Mrs Mimoo said:


> I have also acquired a testing kit - gluconavi. I'll have a go tomorrow at a wake up blood sugar reading (it was 9mmol before food at 0700 when I was diagnosed) and see what it is now. And then before food and after food (two hours). First meeting with diabetic nurse on 4 Jan.  Hoping she's enlightened and won't give me the stupid eat well plate as I am now committed to low carb, done with pasta rice and bread, and will stay on my VLCD until i hit 15kg loss. Then i will go on a 1000 to 1200 cal a day low carb regime.... no beige food for me.  I ate 850 cals on xmas day but no carbs. I dont' feel so thirsty in the morning any more and my trouser belt is three notches down.
> 
> Not tried the metformin as I have IBS and drug complications. But might do at some point. want the slow release ones !


Going with a low calorie diet you need to be careful with as low calorie normals means high carb.Fair enough not trying the metformin as even without your medical conditions it can have unfortunate side effects but the slow release does stop some of the side effects


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## Mrs Mimoo (Dec 26, 2021)

Lily123 said:


> Going with a low calorie diet you need to be careful with as low calorie normals means high carb.Fair enough not trying the metformin as even without your medical conditions it can have unfortunate side effects but the slow release does stop some of the side effects


I'm on exante meal replacement shakes, with green veg twice a day and the occasional salmon steak and green veg supper (newcastle diet). I am not exceeding 80mg of carbs a day - can go lower if needed.


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## Lily123 (Dec 26, 2021)

Mrs Mimoo said:


> I'm on exante meal replacement shakes, with green veg twice a day and the occasional salmon steak and green veg supper (newcastle diet). I am not exceeding 80mg of carbs a day - can go lower if needed.


I’ve heard that the Newcastle diet works quite well for some T2s


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## Mrs Mimoo (Dec 26, 2021)

Lily123 said:


> I’ve heard that the Newcastle diet works quite well for some T2s


it's easy to stick to and all the stuff i eat goes into myfitnesspal so I can add it up. 
Professor Taylor told me to lose 15kg so I will. my HbA1C has gone down from 55 to 49 in a month already.


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## Lily123 (Dec 26, 2021)

Mrs Mimoo said:


> it's easy to stick to and all the stuff i eat goes into myfitnesspal so I can add it up.
> Professor Taylor told me to lose 15kg so I will. my HbA1C has gone down from 55 to 49 in a month already.


That’s great to get your HbA1C down that much!


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## Mrs Mimoo (Dec 26, 2021)

Lily123 said:


> That’s great to get your HbA1C down that much!


I think I was just too fat for my own body.  The personal fat threshold theory of professor Taylor I think seems to apply to me. I am going to try to get to the weight I was when I was in my 20s and see if that works.  I think/hope it will.


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## Lily123 (Dec 26, 2021)

Mrs Mimoo said:


> I think I was just too fat for my own body.  The personal fat threshold theory of professor Taylor seems to apply to me. I am going to try to get to the weight I was when I was in my 20s and see if that works.  I think/hope it will.


Don’t forget that yes weight is a big contributor to T2 but isn’t always the cause


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## Mrs Mimoo (Dec 28, 2021)

Just did before food early morning blood sugar on gluco navi. It was 4.7mmol this morning compared to at diagnosis it was 9mmol. cautiously hopeful here. As it was my first time I ended up stabbing my fingers about 6 times to get a sample (newbie errors).


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## Leadinglights (Dec 28, 2021)

Mrs Mimoo said:


> Just did before food early morning blood sugar on gluco navi. It was 4.7mmol this morning compared to at diagnosis it was 9mmol. cautiously hopeful here. As it was my first time I ended up stabbing my fingers about 6 times to get a sample (newbie errors).


Oh dear on the finger pricking, there are some YouTube videos which may help you.
But a few tips, make sure your hands are warm, massage your finger gently towards the finger tip, choose a site just to the side of the middle on the flat bit of the finger, and give a quick prick.
I use my middle finger of the left hand and then use my thumb to press gently behind the hole to bring a drop of blood out, which I can collect with the strip already in the monitor. You only need a drop the size of a pin head (not an armful).
The reading you got was brilliant though.


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## Eddy Edson (Dec 28, 2021)

Mrs Mimoo said:


> Just did before food early morning blood sugar on gluco navi. It was 4.7mmol this morning compared to at diagnosis it was 9mmol. cautiously hopeful here. As it was my first time I ended up stabbing my fingers about 6 times to get a sample (newbie errors).


Looking good! That's a completely "normal" reading & a pretty hopeful sign that you may have cleared enough fat from yr liver to get its insulin sensitivity back on track. 

Next stop: getting the pancreas sorted (or to put it another way, getting after-eating levels normalised).


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## Mrs Mimoo (Dec 28, 2021)

Eddy Edson said:


> Looking good! That's a completely "normal" reading & a pretty hopeful sign that you may have cleared enough fat from yr liver to get its insulin sensitivity back on track.
> 
> Next stop: getting the pancreas sorted (or to put it another way, getting after-eating levels normalised).


I am glad its back down from 9mmol!  I will continue the weight loss to lose 15kg if I can. thanks for advice on finger pricks lol I'll try a test after my breakfast. should be no more than 3mmol more I gather


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## Leadinglights (Dec 28, 2021)

You need to test just before you eat and 2 hours after and yes the increase should be no more than 2-3mmol/l, 2 is better so if it is 3 then you might still want to reduce your carbs a bit, obviously if over 3 then definitely look to reducing the carb component of your breakfast.
It would be more accurate if you are testing breakfast to retest rather than use a fasting test if there was much of a time lag from getting up to having breakfast.


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## sarahb83 (Dec 28, 2021)

Hi! That’s exactly what I’ve done/am busy doing! I think I’m quite fortunate in that my diabetic nurse has a good relationship with professor Taylor so has a very progressive approach. He has been to my health centre before to give talks about weight loss and remission to type 2 patients. Living in Northumberland is a huge benefit also I think. I found professor Taylor’s book hugely enlightening and actually made me a little easier on myself as at diagnosis aswell as fear I was overwhelmed with feelings of self loathing and disgust but as he puts it some people are diagnosed with type 2 diabetes at size 10 with a healthy bmi and some size 22 because everyone’s fat tolerance threshold is individual to them and everyones genetic pull for type 2 diabetes is entirely dependent on your genetic make up. So for example my diabetic nurse who is also a type 2 diabetic and has been so since she was 35 is and always has been a size 10 so not even overweight never mind obese. At diagnosis even with this progressive take on things she did say to me right ok Sarah you have type 2 diabetes it is unfortunate and it is sad  There is no cure type 2 diabetes cannot be cured but it can be put into remission. She described it something that’s present but not active when put into remission it lays dormant and that it is then in my own hands to keep it so because it all depends on my behaviour. In the main the first part of achieving emission for most people is weight loss and staying in remission long term is maintaining that weight loss since being diagnosed in September I’ve lost 3st 11lb and my last hba1c at the end of November was down from 89 to 45 I’m hoping I can get that down a bit more still. I’m 5ft7 and have gone from a size 22/24 to a size 14. My dad thinks being diagnosed as diabetic has saved my life because it’s only then that I’ve sorted myself out so in a weird way he’s probably right, my dad was diagnosed in his mid 40’s and he wasn’t overweight he has had it for 20 years now and is still managed by tablets and diet x


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## Mrs Mimoo (Dec 30, 2021)

Random medical appt for an injection and was seen by A Nice diabetes nurse. She gave me some great support and advice, likes my diet, is content I am not going to carry on with the current cheapo Metformin (tried it for 3 days - stomach cramps and the runs...) and is happy that i will keep losing weight until I hit my target. She is thinking I might even be in prediabetic range. I'm not scheduled to have another HbA1C till March. I can wait....


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## Felinia (Dec 30, 2021)

I see you have had lots of helpful information.  I would just say that with a current HbA1c of 49 and other bowel problems, you should just keep doing what you have been doing without diabetes medication.  My GP practise will not prescribe Metformin if the initial diagnosis HbA1c is under 60.  Even the SR version gave my bowel problems.  They encourage healthy eating and exercise instead.
I tried a variety of the Exante shakes but found them much too sweet.  Instead I take Nuut Paleo and Keto which are also made up with water.


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## Mrs Mimoo (Dec 30, 2021)

Felinia said:


> I see you have had lots of helpful information.  I would just say that with a current HbA1c of 49 and other bowel problems, you should just keep doing what you have been doing without diabetes medication.  My GP practise will not prescribe Metformin if the initial diagnosis HbA1c is under 60.  Even the SR version gave my bowel problems.  They encourage healthy eating and exercise instead.
> I tried a variety of the Exante shakes but found them much too sweet.  Instead I take Nuut Paleo and Keto which are also made up with water.


Thanks. Your stats are very impressive. I don't mind the Exante products but might try the Nuut ones you recommend! I quite like the shakes as I takes away any agonising about what I can eat....I just eat them and a stack of green veg....


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## sarahb83 (Dec 30, 2021)

Do what works for you  I couldn’t do the shakes to be fair I didn’t actually try them but the thought of them was enough for me so I went with the hairy bikers diet books and it’s working, as long as you lose weight (if you’re overweight) to reduce the fat in your liver you’ll get there. I’ve put 2lb on over Christmas was feeling rightly sorry for myself yesterday but back on track today


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## Felinia (Dec 30, 2021)

Mrs Mimoo said:


> Thanks. Your stats are very impressive. I don't mind the Exante products but might try the Nuut ones you recommend! I quite like the shakes as I takes away any agonising about what I can eat....I just eat them and a stack of green veg....


Nuut is plant and nut based, and not cheap.  As sarahb83 says, do what suits you.  I've got the Hairy Bikers books as well but am a very plain cook.  I don't like herbs, spices, flavourings.  But I do love their programmes!!!  I make a lot of vegetable soups without potato or flour thickeners.  Instead I use blended beans like haricot, cannellini, butter beans for their fibre content.


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## petrometro (Dec 30, 2021)

Mrs Mimoo said:


> I have now had an email from the actual Professor Taylor (I was so suprised) and he's saying I'm on the right track and my blood tests prove it. This and you guys makes me feel I am going to get there...


I was diagnosed T2 in October with an HB count of 53. Doctor prescribed Metformin and on the box it said "Use as directed". Given that I was never given aqny form of direction both the pharmacist and I were compeltely in the dark. I thn bought a Blood Glucose meter and its scale was completely different. It went from1.1 mmol/L (low) to 33.3 (dangerous). My tests showed 7.9, 8.8, 6.8 and 5.3 respectively over about 4 weeks. These are either normal (5.3) to Borderline (8.8) but in no way were they near 53 as per the Hba1c. Im not sure whether in fact I have diabetes at all. No eye disease present, reactions on the feet normal, no blisters or fungus type lesions on the feet. Am I imagining things?


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## Lily123 (Dec 30, 2021)

petrometro said:


> I was diagnosed T2 in October with an HB count of 55. Doctor prescribed Metformin and on the box it said "Use as directed". Given that I was never given aqny form of direction both the pharmacist and I were compeltely in the dark. I thn bought a Blood Glucose meter and its scale was completely different. It went from1.1 mmol/L (low) to 33.3 (dangerous). My tests showed 7.9, 8.8, 6.8 and 5.3 respectively over about 4 weeks. These are either normal (5.3) to Borderline (8.8) but in no way were they near 53 as per the Hba1c. Im not sure whether in fact I have diabetes at all. No eye disease present, reactions on the feet normal, no blisters or fungus type lesions on the feet. Am I imagining things?


Hi, a HbA1C of over 48mmol/mol gets you a diabetes diagnosis


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## petrometro (Dec 30, 2021)

Lily123 said:


> Hi, a HbA1C of over 48mmol/mol gets you a diabetes diagnosis


well 53 is only a tad over pre-diabetes maximums and on the basis that there are no other symptoms.. I guess I'll just have to live with it!


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## Leadinglights (Dec 30, 2021)

petrometro said:


> well 53 is only a tad over pre-diabetes maximums and on the basis that there are no other symptoms.. I guess I'll just have to live with it!


The blood glucose monitor you have bought to do the finger prick testing is measuring your blood glucose level at that moment in time and is in mmol/l usually between 4 and double figures depending on where you are at with your diabetes management. Normal range would be between 4 and 7 with no more than 8.5 after meals. The 53 you have been given is mmol/mol and is a measurement of the average glucose level over the previous 3 months. They are measuring something different which is why the range is not the same. An HbA1C above 48mmol/mol gives you a diabetes diagnosis.
With an HbA1C there is no reason why you should not be able to reduce it to a normal level by making dietary changes, without needing to take the metformin. Some forward thinking surgeries will allow people to try by lifestyle changes for 3 months before prescribing metformin.


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## Mrs Mimoo (Jan 1, 2022)

I had another go at the gluco navi. Waking reading 4.9mmol (ok).  Reading an hour and a half after breakfast (200 cal exante shake 17g carbs): 9mmol.  That looks a little high but its less than 2 hours after. I am so new to this I'm not sure its ok>


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## Leadinglights (Jan 1, 2022)

Mrs Mimoo said:


> I had another go at the gluco navi. Waking reading 4.9mmol (ok).  Reading an hour and a half after breakfast (200 cal exante shake 17g carbs): 9mmol.  That looks a little high but its less than 2 hours after. I am so new to this I'm not sure its ok>


It does seem a bit high. But was the 4.9 just before you had the shake or some time before as your level could have gone up in the meantime and the difference would then not be so great. The reason for suggesting 2 hours is that is when the peak level is likely to be for most people, however this is for people eating 'normal' food rather than the shakes which may be metabolised differently.
I don't know what other people have found but there are several members who have used the shakes so maybe they can comment on what they found.


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## Mrs Mimoo (Jan 1, 2022)

Leadinglights said:


> It does seem a bit high. But was the 4.9 just before you had the shake or some time before as your level could have gone up in the meantime and the difference would then not be so great. The reason for suggesting 2 hours is that is when the peak level is likely to be for most people, however this is for people eating 'normal' food rather than the shakes which may be metabolised differently.
> I don't know what other people have found but there are several members who have used the shakes so maybe they can comment on what they found.


4.9 on waking. so baseline could have been higher as I had breakfast over an hour after waking. thanks for inputs!


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## Leadinglights (Jan 1, 2022)

Mrs Mimoo said:


> 4.9 on waking. so baseline could have been higher as I had breakfast over an our after waking. thanks for inputs!


So if you are doing the same breakfast tomorrow then test just before you swallow the first mouthful and then after 2 hours. Maybe do it on a few days and if it is about the same then you can be reasonably confident that that shake is OK for you.


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## Mrs Mimoo (Jan 2, 2022)

Leadinglights said:


> So if you are doing the same breakfast tomorrow then test just before you swallow the first mouthful and then after 2 hours. Maybe do it on a few days and if it is about the same then you can be reasonably confident that that shake is OK for you.


and as you advised, before first mouthfull 5.6 and two hours later, 6.6. no idea why it was so high yesterday i had the same shake....


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## Leadinglights (Jan 2, 2022)

Mrs Mimoo said:


> and as you advised, before first mouthfull 5.6 and two hours later, 6.6. no idea why it was so high yesterday i had the same shake....


Maybe because it was New Year's Day, or one of the 42 reasons that can affect blood glucose levels ????


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## Mrs Mimoo (Jan 3, 2022)

Tried taking the basic metformin 500mg once a day for the last 5 days. Digestion not good. Very Upset tummy. Seeing diabetic nurse for first time officially tomorrow so will ask either to a. stop b. get some Sukkarto modified release.
waking blood sugar 5.6mmol, two hours after eating 6.2 mmol/l.

Again thanks to all for support on here, it's been amazing.


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## Lily123 (Jan 3, 2022)

Mrs Mimoo said:


> Tried taking the basic metformin 500mg once a day for the last 5 days. Digestion not good. Upset tummy. Seeing diabetic nurse for first time officially tomorrow so will ask either to a. stop b. get some Sukkarto modified release.
> waking blood sugar 5.6mmol, two hours after eating 6.2 mmol/l.
> 
> Again thanks to all for support on here, it's been amazing.


That’s great to have such little change in numbers as that shows that what you ate your body was able to properly deal with the carbs.Unfortunate that the metformin is causing too many side effects


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## Mrs Mimoo (Jan 4, 2022)

Lily123 said:


> That’s great to have such little change in numbers as that shows that what you ate your body was able to properly deal with the carbs.Unfortunate that the metformin is causing too many side effects


Diabetic nurse this morning so will raise all issues - diet, my bloods, weight loss, low carb and the unpleasant metformin side effects.

Update:  And she's a helpful and good nurse - she approved of the diet, approves of low carb, said i had done well. She thinks I need to carry on as I am going. She changed the Metformin to modified release and said sorry for the cheap stuff. She gave me a new meter for some reason so now I have two (will keep it as a back up). She checked my feet and I got a free pneumonia vaccination.... She knew metformin is no good with topirimate and said I should get the Doctor to sort that out (which one do I keep taking).


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## Felinia (Jan 4, 2022)

As your HbA1c was only 55, why not ask if you can try and stop the Metformin and reduce your level by a healthy eating plan and exercise alone.  My GP surgery offers that to all new diabetics whose HbA1c is less than 60.  You have to keep it up though.


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## Mrs Mimoo (Jan 4, 2022)

Felinia said:


> As your HbA1c was only 55, why not ask if you can try and stop the Metformin and reduce your level by a healthy eating plan and exercise alone.  My GP surgery offers that to all new diabetics whose HbA1c is less than 60.  You have to keep it up though.


One of the two doctors at the practice does not appear to believe in remission or any 'new' ideas. The nurse seemed up for it though.  If the modified release metformin is better on the tum I'll try it for a bit but given my trajectory (towards not being diabetic/remission) I don't see it being a major issue if I don't take it in the end, as you point out.


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## Weekender (Jan 6, 2022)

Mrs Mimoo said:


> Got diagnosed by accident as on way to A&E with tachycardia.... ambulance did a blood test and found my resting blood sugar was 9mmol in the morning. So I read a bit and went on the Prof Roy Taylor diet and in 6 weeks have lost 6.5kg and got the HbA1c down to 49. I was heavy (101kg) and needed to lose 15kg so i am on track.
> 
> GP seemed not impressed but threw metformin at me by text message 'this test confirms you are diabetic'.  in fact I believe that these tests confirms that I can lower my blood glucose by dieting?
> 
> Question: metformin pack says dont take this med if you are on a vlcd or diet of below 1000 calories a day. I am on 800 calories.  What will happen if i take the metformin as instructed by GP who didn't even listen to me and wont' see me face to face.


Welcome @Mrs Mimoo Congratulations on losing 6.5kg in 6 weeks - I think the fact your HbA1c is now 49 demonstrates Prof Roy Taylor is right. Its  32 weeks  since I started the 800 calories diet and my blood sugars are fine.  I did get an appointment with my GP practice Diabetes nurse for 14 weeks - by which time my HbA1c was fine, so avoided being prescribed drugs.
I also started at 101kg btw


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## Mrs Mimoo (Jan 6, 2022)

Weekender said:


> Welcome @Mrs Mimoo Congratulations on losing 6.5kg in 6 weeks - I think the fact your HbA1c is now 49 demonstrates Prof Roy Taylor is right. Its  32 weeks  since I started the 800 calories diet and my blood sugars are fine.  I did get an appointment with my GP practice Diabetes nurse for 14 weeks - by which time my HbA1c was fine, so avoided being prescribed drugs.
> I also started at 101kg btw


Hi Weekender. This has been a rollacoaster! I only found out I was diabetic because a nice paramedic tested my finger while treating me for Tachycardia in the ambulance. So its been good to find that following Prof Taylor's advice is helping me reduce my BG and improve general wellbeing. I knew I was too heavy but I was trapped in a whirl of working full time and not from home, and having chronic migraine and the tachy cardia did not help. 

I'm now 93kg and lost 8kg in total ... losing on average 100 to 200g a day (obsessive scales use) and hope that I can get down to 80-85. I'm not going to stop the low cal low carb diet until I do. I am finger prick testing BG every morning and after breakfast and getting a baseline of between 4.8 and 6 mmol in the mornings depending on when I do the test and 6.1 to 8.5 2 hours after meals depnding on what they were. took one too soon and got 9....!

Loving exante products as they taste nice and are satisfying. Eating lots of green veg to keep things ok... Will try the Metformin MR after tummy disaster with basic metformin.


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## Weekender (Jan 6, 2022)

Mrs Mimoo said:


> Hi Weekender. This has been a rollacoaster! I only found out I was diabetic because a nice paramedic tested my finger while treating me for Tachycardia in the ambulance. So its been good to find that following Prof Taylor's advice is helping me reduce my BG and improve general wellbeing. I knew I was too heavy but I was trapped in a whirl of working full time and not from home, and having chronic migraine and the tachy cardia did not help.
> 
> I'm now 93kg and lost 8kg in total ... losing on average 100 to 200g a day (obsessive scales use) and hope that I can get down to 80-85. I'm not going to stop the low cal low carb diet until I do. I am finger prick testing BG every morning and after breakfast and getting a baseline of between 4.8 and 6 mmol in the mornings depending on when I do the test and 6.1 to 8.5 2 hours after meals depnding on what they were. took one too soon and got 9....!
> 
> Loving exante products as they taste nice and are satisfying. Eating lots of green veg to keep things ok... Will try the Metformin MR after tummy disaster with basic metformin.


Hi! a baseline of between 4.8 and 6 mmol in the mornings seems like you've fixed it to me. I like Exante too. Just my opinion, but if you take Metformin, when it comes to your next HbA1c reading we won't know whether your diet fixed it or the drugs. Given your progress, I can't see any great danger in not taking the drugs until after you've seen the next HbA1c. Your blood sugar readings are fine. Are you feeling more energetic ?


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## Mrs Mimoo (Jan 6, 2022)

Weekender said:


> Hi! a baseline of between 4.8 and 6 mmol in the mornings seems like you've fixed it to me. I like Exante too. Just my opinion, but if you take Metformin, when it comes to your next HbA1c reading we won't know whether your diet fixed it or the drugs. Given your progress, I can't see any great danger in not taking the drugs until after you've seen the next HbA1c. Your blood sugar readings are fine. Are you feeling more energetic ?


Hiya. I may see how I go without the metformin as you point out.... #

Symptoms:  I still wake up with a dry mouth, but that could be the diet or the beta blockers as I'm on bisoprolol for the tachycardia and it's a known side effect along with freezing feet! I don't need to pee in the night.  I have more energy having lost a stone and a quarter that's for sure!


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## Leadinglights (Jan 6, 2022)

Mrs Mimoo said:


> Hiya. I may see how I go without the metformin as you point out.... #
> 
> Symptoms:  I still wake up with a dry mouth, but that could be the diet or the beta blockers as I'm on bisoprolol for the tachycardia and it's a known side effect along with freezing feet! I don't need to pee in the night.  I have more energy having lost a stone and a quarter that's for sure!


If you have a dry mouth but not thirsty it could be you sleep with your mouth open so you are breathing through your mouth rather than your nose.


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## Mrs Mimoo (Mar 18, 2022)

Update: HBA1C is now 37..... losing 10.5kg works. Did that in 120 days.

Still trying to lose another 5kg but keep eating spoons of peanut butter in my yoghurt..... Serum Cholesterol is 5.0/mmol/l so high end of normal. Might need more olive oil and less double cream.

Thanks everyone for top tips especially the Metformin MR: My top tip was myfitnesspal and eating konjak pasta for pasta.... and Exante pot meals doctored with a spoon of petit pois or topped off with spinach.

what do I do about the cholesterol>?

Alison /mrsMimoo


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## rebrascora (Mar 18, 2022)

Fantastic achievement! Huge WELL DONE from me! I hope you are really proud of yourself because you deserve to be.


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## Mrs Mimoo (Mar 19, 2022)

rebrascora said:


> Fantastic achievement! Huge WELL DONE from me! I hope you are really proud of yourself because you deserve to be.


Thank you x I still can't quite believe it!  Will continue on the low carb, and try to lose more weight. x


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## Christy (Mar 19, 2022)

Well done! Fantastic news


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## Windy (Mar 19, 2022)

Mrs Mimoo said:


> what do I do about the cholesterol>?


My cholesterol reduced as I lost weight, it was 6.4 mmol/mol in October and 4.6 mmol/mol in February, so hopefully yours will do the same. It's probably a question for your GP though, I suspect they'll offer you statins if they haven't already. Mine did, but I said I'd rather try and continue with my diet changes and review it next time I see him.


Mrs Mimoo said:


> HBA1C is now 37..... losing 10.5kg works. Did that in 120 days


You've done so well Alison, I hope you're proud of yourself! I'm proud of you


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## harbottle (Mar 19, 2022)

Great work!

It's good to see I'm not the only one who can't resist Peanut butter.

My cholesterol was OK but went up when I lost weight, so I got offered statins. I said I'd rather not right away and try to bring it down through diet - even though I don't each much with saturated fat in it.


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## Mrs Mimoo (Mar 19, 2022)

harbottle said:


> Great work!
> 
> It's good to see I'm not the only one who can't resist Peanut butter.
> 
> My cholesterol was OK but went up when I lost weight, so I got offered statins. I said I'd rather not right away and try to bring it down through diet - even though I don't each much with saturated fat in it.


Ive been hyperfocused on the hba1c, so have ignored cholesterol (also GP has not tested it for 3 years). So may need to modify a few things. I used to eat oats quite alot but they are awful for BG so need some other soluble fibre, thinking about making keto bread with extra fibre or similar. 

Peanut butter is my only 'sweet' treat apart from the odd berry.  I have it with a bit of double cream or some greek yoghurt..... I am addicted to the organic crunchy variety.


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## harbottle (Mar 19, 2022)

I make bread using some psyllium husk and eat a lot of veg, so I think I'm getting a fair bit of fibre. I used to eat oats, but when I wore a Libre I saw a spike - BG went up but came down really quickly. I haven't had Oats since. :-(

I like the big tubs of ALDI peanut butter, both crunchy and non-crunchy.  I have it with Greek yoghurt and piles of raspberries (Most fruit doesn't seem cause me any issue with BG.)

I used to use a bit of double Greek in a few recipes, but cut it out when I found I had high cholesterol.


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## Mrs Mimoo (Mar 19, 2022)

peanut butter is a good oil for lipids so I'll keep eating it.  I will however introduce Psyllium husk fibre to some of my foods to help mop up any excess cholesterol....


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## Eddy Edson (Mar 19, 2022)

Mrs Mimoo said:


> what do I do about the cholesterol>?


Generally, the most effective way of reducing LDL cholesterol is to take a statin.

Failing that, things which can have a moderate effect:

- Cut saturated fat (but not poly/monounsaturated fat)
- Cut refined carbs (but not fruit, whole grains etc).
- Eats lots of fibre


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## Drummer (Mar 19, 2022)

When losing weight cholesterol is likely to go up as it is part of the transport system moving the fats from cells to liver to be broken down. It is not some dreadful consequence of wrong diet but part of a natural process.


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## harbottle (Mar 19, 2022)

This is why I didn't want to leap straight onto statins, as my cholesterol was within the recommended levels when I was diagnosed, but had gone up after losing a fair amount of weight very quickly. I'd read online that losing weight can put it up briefly. Now I've stabilised my weight (I actually put some on) I'm hoping it will come down.


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