# Natural fat is key to living longer: Previous advice was wrong



## Northerner (Feb 10, 2015)

Families have been told for three decades to cut their risk of heart disease by avoiding fatty foods like meat, cheese and cream.

But now scientists say the advice followed flawed trials – none had involved female patients – and “should never have been introduced”.

There is no direct link between fat intake and death from heart disease, they say.

Writing in the British Medical Journal today, lead researcher Zoe Harcombe says: “If I were in charge of public health policy I would have three words (of advice), eat real food.”

Heart specialists now say eating foods with natural fat such as nuts and fish could actually protect against cardiovascular disease.

http://www.express.co.uk/life-style...products-packed-sugar-eat-natural-fat-instead

Hallelujah!


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## Northerner (Feb 10, 2015)

*Butter ISN'T bad for you after all*

Guidelines that told millions of people to avoid butter and full-fat milk should never have been introduced, say experts.

The startling assertion challenges advice that has been followed by the medical profession for 30 years.

The experts say the advice from 1983, aimed at reducing deaths from heart disease, lacked any solid trial evidence to back it up.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...-study-says-80s-advice-dairy-fats-flawed.html


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## KookyCat (Feb 10, 2015)

They actually said the words carbohydrate may be more dangerous on BBC breakfast.  I for one have always been moderate carb, moderate fat (good fat and some of the demonised dairy fats) and I intend to remain that way with my fingers crossed!  The interesting thing though is the doctors all said my diet was responsible for my body coping so well with high blood sugar before diagnosis, then all went on to preach high carb low fat.  The three weeks I followed that advice I had no energy, felt like death, had ludicrous blood sugar and my mood was awful, bordering on mania and crashing depression.  I wonder how the medical profession became so easily convinced by so little evidence?


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## DeusXM (Feb 10, 2015)

> They actually said the words carbohydrate may be more dangerous on BBC breakfast.



One of the people in charge of the study pretty much said the same thing on the Today programme just now - in fact, she actually said _"The dietary advice saw a lot of fats in the diet replaced with carbohydrate. When you look at what has happened to the rates of obesity and heart disease in the past 30 years since the guidelines were introduced, there is a real possibility that the guidelines have actually had a catastrophic impact on public health"._



> I wonder how the medical profession became so easily convinced by so little evidence?



Don't want to sound all conspiracy-theorist but here's the thing. There isn't a mighty butter lobby, or a cheese lobby, or a 'fat' producer.

There are, however, massive international cereal and confectionary conglomerates, whose core business is in shipping cheap-to-produce carbohydrates, and whose business would do incredibly well if people were told to eat less fat and more pasta and cereal.

One of whom used(?) to be a doner to Diabetes UK, too, although they've removed the evidence of this from their website in the last year.


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## Copepod (Feb 10, 2015)

DeusXM said:


> One of the people in charge of the study pretty much said the same thing on the Today programme just now - in fact, she actually said _"The dietary advice saw a lot of fats in the diet replaced with carbohydrate. When you look at what has happened to the rates of obesity and heart disease in the past 30 years since the guidelines were introduced, there is a real possibility that the guidelines have actually had a catastrophic impact on public health"._
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Can't help smiling at your typo, DeusXM - doner [kebab] not as bad as previous thought, carbohydrate donor no longer on Diabetes UK website.


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## KookyCat (Feb 10, 2015)

I might refer to it as the cereal conspiracy from now on   I currently have an ongoing dialogue with a certain supermarket about their utter refusal to stock full fat yoghurt, there's a whole aisle of high sugar low fat yoghurt and one lowly pot of full fat no sugar.  Their argument is nobody wants full fat anything, and they may be right because we've all been indoctrinated to ask for low fat everything.  I don't fancy their chances of changing behaviour that quickly.

On a related note I wondered if the headline about type 1 women have reduced life expectancy had anything to do with diet, women after all are generally more likely to go for low fat, which also usually means higher carb.  I weigh less than I've ever done on my moderate fat diet, and I'm not sure I'd have been easily convinced of that in my teens and early twenties.


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## DeusXM (Feb 10, 2015)

> we've all been indoctrinated to ask for low fat everything. I don't fancy their chances of changing behaviour that quickly.



There's going to be a lot of official resistance. I think it's the director of Public Health England who's been quoted as saying the study by Zoe Harcombe shows that the guidelines were introduced before being proven but that they've been proven since. Ms/Dr Harcombe was on the radio this morning and said that was not what the study showed at all and that Public Health England clearly hadn't understood the study - the study showed there was no evidence for the guidelines either before OR after they'd been introduced.

As you say, we're looking at reversing more than 30 years of indoctrinated behaviour (witness how many people on this board alone have great trouble understanding how a high-fat diet doesn't have to be unhealthy, and we're the ones who know what carbs do to you!) and a lot of people who have far more to lose than weight from any change. 

Aside from the manufacturers who've done very well out of making low-fat food....where does this leave the doctors, the nurses, the officials, the dieticians? What happens if the official device is reversed? Doesn't that then mean that every person who's ever had a heart attack could then theoretically sue those in the health service for giving them the wrong advice? Changing the guidelines is an admission that they were wrong. Who's going to do that if there's a chance that will lead to a public backlash? 

It isn't going to happen. You'll just get the awkward doublethink we currently have where fat is bad, but sugar will get the odd mention, and docs will continue to look the other way as patients following their advice continue to get bad results while those doing their own thing and doing well will be safely discounted as statistical outliers.


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## trophywench (Feb 10, 2015)

OTOH let's look at the bright side Deus! - unusual for Mrs Cynical here but let's try !

Zoe's article - which merely reiterates what a LOT of people have been saying for years anyway (from the Ancel Keys 7 nations study which originally was the 23 nations study except he discounted the 16 nationalities which didn't match the results he wanted, onwards) was published in the BMJ.

Doctors - including most of all GPs - actually read the BMJ and the Lancet - whereas they will not be influenced at all even if they read, articles in eg the Daily Telegraph or the Huffington Post.

One would also (like to) assume that both the medical journals have some sort of merit rating in their editorial guidelines so that completely bonkers views for which there is no 'real' evidence don't get the chance of being aired in them.

So Hoorah!


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## Abi (Feb 10, 2015)

My understanding is that the oriental "evidence" for  the "benefits" of eating low fat was published as far back in time as the 1950s- and some of the studies contained a frighteningly small number of subjects, did not adjust for confounding factors such as smoking, and even that data from some countries may have been excluded as failed to support his hypothesis
Will have to brush up on this
Has anyone else noted of late that a certain diabetes charity is introducing the occasional lower carb recipe and idea for a lower carb meal "by stealth" i.e. masquerading as attempts to lower overall calories rather than carbs?


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## Andy HB (Feb 10, 2015)

I no longer pay heed to anything the 'experts' say on this subject.

I just eat what works for me (or not!).

Andy


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## KookyCat (Feb 10, 2015)

It's all very interesting, and I hope they at least try to change the current doctrine, maybe that will prevent a good number of people ending up here.  I will watch with interest, and continue to protest about the tyranny of low fat yoghurt


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## robert@fm (Feb 10, 2015)

This thread reminds me strongly of "Living Forever" by Genesis.


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## banjo (Feb 11, 2015)

Had my first visit to dietician - 3 months late - i have lost 3 stone in 3 months following nice guidelines - this rate of loss will be a problem to me soon as i am now at 12.5 stones -dieticians advice? She told me to eat some crisps with my lunch and have an extra 2 slices of bread a day???? soooo - that kinda goes against this new information -i didnt find it helpful really to have suggested to up the items that raise my bloods lol. Oh well 1 hour wasted maybe


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## Northerner (Feb 11, 2015)

banjo said:


> Had my first visit to dietician - 3 months late - i have lost 3 stone in 3 months following nice guidelines - this rate of loss will be a problem to me soon as i am now at 12.5 stones -dieticians advice? She told me to eat some crisps with my lunch and have an extra 2 slices of bread a day???? soooo - that kinda goes against this new information -i didnt find it helpful really to have suggested to up the items that raise my bloods lol. Oh well 1 hour wasted maybe



It's a shame that there is such a difference in ability where healthcare professionals are concerned - some are really good, some bad and some just not keeping up with their knowledge.


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## Northerner (Feb 11, 2015)

*1980s fat guidelines 'lacked evidence,' study argues*

NHS Choices analysis:

http://www.nhs.uk/news/2015/02February/Pages/1980s-fat-guidelines-lacked-evidence-study-argues.aspx

Seems to just concentrate on the sat-fat issue, and doesn't mention the danger from increased carb consumption at all. Look at that flipping 'eatwell plate'  "plenty of bread, rice, potatoes, pasta, and other starchy foods (choose wholegrain varieties whenever you can)"


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