# A really useful book for newbie T2s



## Chris Hobson (Apr 12, 2022)

I am currently in the process of re-reading the book 'Reverse your diabetes' by Dr. David Cavan. The book has been covered in the Recommended books section on this forum:


			https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/reverse-your-diabetes-dr-david-cavan.55224/
		

But I think that the book really needs a mention on this section. I have noticed that many newcomers seem to be feeling very panicky and disorientated about being newly diagnosed. I wish that I had read this book when I was first diagnosed. The book is really for type twos. It starts by giving a detailed description of what type two diabetes actually is in practice. It does go into some rather unpleasant details about how diabetes can screw up your health if you don't get a grip on it but then goes on to tell you what you can do to avoid this happening to you. Diet and exercise are known ways of dealing with type two diabetes, Dr. Cavan explains in detail what this means in practice.


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## Cherrelle DUK (Apr 12, 2022)

Thanks for sharing this, Chris. 

As you mentioned, lots of people worry about what a type 2 diagnosis means and how they can approach things so it's good to have some helpful info to read and assess what may work for you.


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## Rebecca DUK (Apr 13, 2022)

thanks for sharing this @Chris Hobson - some really useful information!


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## Proud to be erratic (Apr 13, 2022)

Could the thread be retitled to include reference to T2 newbies? Then those newcomers might have a chance of picking up on @Chris Hobson 's suggestion.


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## Burylancs (Apr 17, 2022)

Cherrelle DUK said:


> Thanks for sharing this, Chris.
> 
> As you mentioned, lots of people worry about what a type 2 diagnosis means and how they can approach things so it's good to have some helpful info to read and assess what may work for you.


Cherrelle please remove the sticky from this post above. A secure diagnosis of Type 2 Diabetes CANNOT be 'reversed'. It is a lifelong condition. Newly dxed T2s on this site should not be misled into believing that it can. Good Control is what they must aim for not fantasy solutions


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## Windy (Apr 19, 2022)

I have to disagree with you Burylancs. You're mixing diabetes remission and good control together, and they are separate.
Good and poor control are defined as:
_"Definition of good and poor metabolic control
In the present study, “good metabolic control” was defined as the group of DCCT patients with a mean HbA1c level (until last visit) <=6.87%, a threshold corresponding to the 20th percentile of the overall distribution of HbA1c mean level. 
Similarly, “poor metabolic control” was defined as the group of DCCT patients with a mean HbA1c level (until last visit) >= 9.49%, which corresponded to the 80th percentile of the overall HbA1c mean level distribution."_
Schectman, J.M., Schorling, J.B. and Voss, J.D., 2008. Appointment adherence and disparities in outcomes among patients with diabetes. Journal of general internal medicine, 23(10), pp.1685-1687.

whereas diabetes remission is defined as:
_"Type 2 diabetes remission is defined as a healthy clinical state characterized by achievement of HBA1c below the targeted level, maintained for at least 6 months, with or without continued use of lifestyle modification and/or metformin, provided that this is not due to complications, comorbid conditions or concomitant therapy."_
Kalra, S., Singal, A. and Lathia, T., 2021. What’s in a name? Redefining type 2 diabetes remission. Diabetes Therapy, 12(3), pp.647-654.

Holst and Madsbad argue:
_"Thus, the generally accepted level of 7.0% for good glycemic control is a compromise, and quite far from a state of remission regardless of how you define it; rather, it defines an “acceptable” treatment result, obtained without unduly increasing the risk of adverse events associated with the therapy itself."_
Holst, J.J. and Madsbad, S., 2021. What is Diabetes Remission?. Diabetes Therapy, 12(3), pp.641-646.

I also note that the NHS England guidance on language and diabetes discourages the use of "control".
_"‘What’s your diabetes control like? ...’
Avoid the idea of ‘control’ and discuss how diabetes is affecting the person’s life in general."_
Cooper, A., Kanumilli, N., Hill, J., Holt, R.I.G., Howarth, D., Lloyd, C.E., Kar, P., Nagi, D., Naik, S., Nash, J. and Nelson, H., 2018. Language matters. Addressing the use of language in the care of people with diabetes: position statement of the English Advisory Group. Diabetic Medicine, 35(12), pp.1630-1634.

But I suspect we don't agree on this Burylancs, despite the research papers giving definitions. It would be a boring world if we all agreed. Sarah


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## Burylancs (Apr 19, 2022)

Windy said:


> I have to disagree with you Burylancs. You're mixing diabetes remission and good control together, and they are separate.
> Good and poor control are defined as:
> _"Definition of good and poor metabolic control
> In the present study, “good metabolic control” was defined as the group of DCCT patients with a mean HbA1c level (until last visit) <=6.87%, a threshold corresponding to the 20th percentile of the overall distribution of HbA1c mean level.
> ...


And you are mixing 'remission' and 'reversal' together. They are inimical contradictory concepts. The book in question is talking about 'reversal' of Type 2 diabetes not 'remission'.


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## AndBreathe (Apr 19, 2022)

To be honest, when diagnosed I was told my diabetes was a progressive condition.  I was determined the progression would at worst be slow, but in reality I reversed the progression, so I do think reverse is as appropriate a word as any.

Anyone being diagnosed with any condition must be advised that not everyone reacts the same or has the same outcomes, but I believe it is important that messaging surrounding a diagnosis of T2 includes some form of hope.  It's no surprise that those given total gloom and doom think, "If this is as good as it gets, pass the cake/biscuits/chips/pizza or whatever".

@Burylancs , I know nothing of you, but if your experiences have been less positive, or you have had a pretty rough ride from it all, I'm sorry that has been your experience, but in life, hope if important.

(My general stats are in my signature.)


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## travellor (Apr 19, 2022)

Saying as I reversed my diabetes, personally I'm good with the term.


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## Windy (Apr 19, 2022)

Reversed is also the term that Roy Taylor uses in the title of one of his books, and on the cover of the other book. He doesn't use it in his scientific papers, which makes me think "reversed" is aimed at the general public, whilst "remission" is the term used within the scientific community.
But either way, the stuff I've read, and the experiences of other people on this forum makes me think it's real and worth a try for people with type 2. I'd rather travel hopefully, even if I don't get my diabetes reversed or in remission. I assume other type 2s are similar.
Sarah


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## Eddy Edson (Apr 19, 2022)

The DUK page is a bit confusing on this "remission" vs "reversal" business: https://www.diabetes.org.uk/diabetes-the-basics/type-2-reverse

_Reversing type 2 diabetes_​_We don’t call it diabetes reversal _*[but you just did!]*_, because this might sound like it's permanent, and there’s no guarantee that your diabetes has gone forever._​_But yes, it may be possible to put your type 2 diabetes into remission. This is when your blood sugar levels are below the diabetes range and you don’t need to take diabetes medication anymore. This could be life-changing._
_How do you reverse diabetes? [Did it again!]_​_
..._

Could probably do with an edit.


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## Burylancs (Apr 19, 2022)

Eddy Edson said:


> The DUK page is a bit confusing on this "remission" vs "reversal" business: https://www.diabetes.org.uk/diabetes-the-basics/type-2-reverse
> 
> _Reversing type 2 diabetes_​_We don’t call it diabetes reversal _*[but you just did!]*_, because this might sound like it's permanent, and there’s no guarantee that your diabetes has gone forever._​_But yes, it may be possible to put your type 2 diabetes into remission. This is when your blood sugar levels are below the diabetes range and you don’t need to take diabetes medication anymore. This could be life-changing._
> _How do you reverse diabetes? [Did it again!]_​_
> ...


Yes its typical of the confusion and contradictions in this area. Clearly if you claim to have 'reversed' your Type 2 Diabetes you cannot be a T2 in 'remission'      and if you claim to be a Type 2 in 'remission' you clearly haven't 'reversed' it. 
And yet two contradictory terms are being run as synonyms. They all just making it up as they go along, as is evidenced by the competing definitions of 'remission' that Windy has found. All Type 2s are going to have to consider how every morsel of food will affect their bgs for the rest of their lives. Which in turn suggests that neither 'reversal' or 'remission' are fundamentally possible in any meaningful sense of those terms.


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## Eddy Edson (Apr 19, 2022)

Burylancs said:


> All Type 2s are going to have to consider how every morsel of food will affect their bgs for the rest of their lives.


I don't think so.


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## AndBreathe (Apr 19, 2022)

Burylancs said:


> Yes its typical of the confusion and contradictions in this area. Clearly if you claim to have 'reversed' your Type 2 Diabetes you cannot be a T2 in 'remission'      and if you claim to be a Type 2 in 'remission' you clearly haven't 'reversed' it.
> And yet two contradictory terms are being run as synonyms. They all just making it up as they go along, as is evidenced by the competing definitions of 'remission' that Windy has found. All Type 2s are going to have to consider how every morsel of food will affect their bgs for the rest of their lives. Which in turn suggests that neither 'reversal' or 'remission' are fundamentally possible in any meaningful sense of those terms.



I don't believe I consider every morsel of food.  My life is changed.  I don't think about bread, cakes and whatever.  They don't enter my head space, aside from when I am buying them for my OH who does have them.

In my old world, pre-T2, I had routines and habits.  I still have routines and habits, but some of them are different to pre-October 2013.  I don't rail against or resent my new normal.

I'm not picking any sort of fight.  I'm merely explaining my experiences appear to differ to yours.

I am


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## Windy (Apr 19, 2022)

Burylancs said:


> They all just making it up as they go along, as is evidenced by the competing definitions of 'remission' that Windy has found.


I only gave one definition of remission.
However there are others in the scientific literature if you care to look for them. I can recommend searching in Google Scholar if you want to see papers with the other definitions, but they're much of a muchness. Google scholar is a search tool for scientific papers, and I've found it an excellent resource in the past.


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## Leadinglights (Apr 19, 2022)

Reversal, remission, resolved by whatever means to a non diabetic blood glucose level which is maintained without medication does not necessarily mean cured. But credit should be given to those who do get to that point so they can live their new normal life.


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## travellor (Apr 19, 2022)

Burylancs said:


> All Type 2s are going to have to consider how every morsel of food will affect their bgs for the rest of their lives.


Nah.
Once it's reversed any food is good.
(Admittedly I am currently on a quest for artisan pies, and artisan sausages, and artisan bread, and craft beer, so I do have some standards)


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## Eddy Edson (Apr 20, 2022)

Eddy Edson said:


> The DUK page is a bit confusing on this "remission" vs "reversal" business: https://www.diabetes.org.uk/diabetes-the-basics/type-2-reverse
> 
> _Reversing type 2 diabetes_​_We don’t call it diabetes reversal _*[but you just did!]*_, because this might sound like it's permanent, and there’s no guarantee that your diabetes has gone forever._​_But yes, it may be possible to put your type 2 diabetes into remission. This is when your blood sugar levels are below the diabetes range and you don’t need to take diabetes medication anymore. This could be life-changing._
> _How do you reverse diabetes? [Did it again!]_​
> ...


Just because it's kind of interesting, philosophically ... This is from Joslin's "can it be reversed" page:






						Can Type 2 Diabetes Be Reversed?
					

Type 2 diabetes (formerly known as adult-onset or non-insulin-dependent diabetes) can be a life-long, chronic disease in which the body either does not produce enough insulin or the cells in out body doesn’t respond to insulin correctly. Because of these two problems, there isn’t enough insulin...




					www.joslin.org
				




_According to recent research, type 2 diabetes cannot be cured, but individuals can have glucose levels that return to non-diabetes range, (complete remission) or pre-diabetes glucose level (partial remission) The primary means by which people with type 2 diabetes achieve remission is by losing significant amounts of weight.

We talk of remission and not a cure because it isn’t permanent. The beta cells have been damaged and the underlying genetic factors contributing to the person’s susceptibility to diabetes remain intact. Over time the disease process reasserts itself and continued destruction of the beta cells ensues. An environmental insult such as weight gain can bring back the symptomatic glucose intolerance._

You have to respect Joslin but there are things in this which seem dubious on different levels. Most abstractly, the idea that because an "insult" such as weight gain can bring back glucose metabolism problems, you can't talk of a "cure".

I really don't get that. By analogy, you could never talk of a "cure" for anthrax, because if you are exposed to another anthrax spore "insult" you may well get it again.

If I retain a healthy weight I avoid recurrence of glucose metabolism problems; if I avoid anthrax spores I avoid anthrax; if I avoid unhealthy behaviours I avoid health problems.  Susceptability to developing health problems with unhealthy behaviours surely isn't by itself a sign of an underlying, dormant disease.

And there is absolutely no reason to suppose that necessarily "_over time the disease process reasserts itself and continued destruction of the beta cells ensues."  _That just seems to be a rhetorical survival from when it was thought that T2D was indeed necessarily progressive.

But anyway, all of this might tend to distract from the important issue: how to maintain weight loss, and in this sense, Joslin is more on the mark, because people will indeed tend in general to regain weight and offer their metabolisms renewed "insults".

The "gold standard" for intensive lifestyle interventions (counseling etc) for weight loss is I think the big long-term Look AHEAD trial.

In that, about 30% lost >10% of body weight (mean ~15%) after 1 year. At 8 years, just 39% of those 30% had retained >10% loss. So despite intensive ongoing interventions, only about 12% of the total particpants managed to retain >10% reduction long term.

There is as far as I know no reason to suppose that the NHS' "Newcastle" interventions, which are similar or perhaps less intensive, will achieve better results long term.

Trying to address weight issues via behavious modification for many is like trying to get people to consciously breathe at a particular rate, always - you're addressing a deep subconscious process with inadequate tools.

Not that the less than optimal long term outcomes have no value - in Look AHEAD about 20% of people maintained at least 5% loss long term, which is supposed to be enough for significant benefits. But for full "reversal" in a majority of people with the relevant type of T2D, you probably need meds like Wegovy/Ozempic or the new drugs in the pipeline.


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## Windy (Apr 20, 2022)

Eddy Edson said:


> There is as far as I know no reason to suppose that the NHS' "Newcastle" interventions, which are similar or perhaps less intensive, will achieve better results long term.


I suspect the answer is ongoing monitoring, support and mini-Newcastle style interventions if the weight starts to creep up again. I think there was a trial ongoing for this, run by Roy Taylor's team, but can't seem to find it at the moment.


Eddy Edson said:


> The beta cells have been damaged and the underlying genetic factors contributing to the person’s susceptibility to diabetes remain intact.


I thought that Taylor had proved using MRI scans that the pancreas recovers over two years after weight loss. As you say, this seems to be a hangover from the past and Joslin doesn't seem to acknowledge it.


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## travellor (Apr 20, 2022)

Windy said:


> I suspect the answer is ongoing monitoring, support and mini-Newcastle style interventions if the weight starts to creep up again. I think there was a trial ongoing for this, run by Roy Taylor's team, but can't seem to find it at the moment.
> 
> I thought that Taylor had proved using MRI scans that the pancreas recovers over two years after weight loss. As you say, this seems to be a hangover from the past and Joslin doesn't seem to acknowledge it.


I find it quite easy to simply do a few diet shakes if my weight does start to creep up.

Being obese sort of happened slowly, I didn't really notice until one day, it was there, now I'm much more observant.
And being thin makes my lifestyle better, so I'm staying with it.


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## Burylancs (Apr 20, 2022)

Eddy Edson said:


> Just because it's kind of interesting, philosophically ... This is from Joslin's "can it be reversed" page:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Quote - _”over time the disease process reasserts itself and continued destruction of the beta cells ensues."  _That just seems to be a rhetorical survival from when it was thought that T2D was indeed necessarily progressive.'

Or it could just be the TRUTH Eddy based on 4000 years knowledge and experience of what is currently called Type 2 Diabetes.


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## travellor (Apr 20, 2022)

Burylancs said:


> Quote - _”over time the disease process reasserts itself and continued destruction of the beta cells ensues."  _That just seems to be a rhetorical survival from when it was thought that T2D was indeed necessarily progressive.'
> 
> Or it could just the TRUTH Eddy based on 4000 years knowledge and experience of what is currently called Type 2 Diabetes.



From the bronze age?
They had medicine that advanced?


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## Burylancs (Apr 20, 2022)

travellor said:


> From the bronze age?
> They had medicine that advanced?


The Ancient Egyptians first diagnosed Diabetes. Perhaps no coincidence that they were a cereal-based culture. The Ancient Greeks gave its current name Diabetes Mellitus ( 'sweet piss') because they sipped the urine to test for it.


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## travellor (Apr 20, 2022)

Burylancs said:


> The Ancient Egyptians first diagnosed Diabetes. Perhaps no coincidence that they were a cereal-based culture. The Ancient Greeks gave its current name Diabetes Mellitus ( 'sweet piss') because they sipped the urine to test for it.



I really think things have moved on from there.
Better ways of testing for it for example, no drinking required.
Better ways to treat it.
Insulin.
Then continuous glucose monitoring, and insulin pumps.
Then even in the last decade alone Professor Taylor discovered a way to reverse type 2.
Who knows what they'll find next, but I don't think 4000 years of bronze age history is a reason to stop looking now.


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## Burylancs (Apr 20, 2022)

travellor said:


> I really think things have moved on from there.
> Better ways of testing for it for example, no drinking required.
> Better ways to treat it.
> Insulin.
> ...


Very ironic then that Professor Taylor has rejected modern medicine and is advocating a return to the Ancient Greek approach of just diet and exercise !


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## travellor (Apr 20, 2022)

Burylancs said:


> Very ironic then that Professor Taylor has rejected modern medicine and is advocating a return to the Ancient Greek approach of diet and exercise !


If it works, it works.
As you now agree, knowledge increases with time, and experience changes.
Sometimes a fresh opinion is exactly what is needed at times, even if it means going back to the beginning.


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## Eddy Edson (Apr 26, 2022)

Eddy Edson said:


> Just because it's kind of interesting, philosophically ... This is from Joslin's "can it be reversed" page:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


FWIW, correcting some numbers in that post. In Look AHEAD, actually 27% of "intensive lifestyle intervention" participants had 10%+ weight reduction at year 8; 11% had 15%+; and 50% had 5%+. 

So a lot better than the numbers I posted previously (I followed a bad lead) and they certainly contradict the Internet wisdom that "95% of diets fail".  

But still only a small minority maintaining the DiRECT target of 15% loss for people with obesity at baseline & the case for weight-loss meds still stands.


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## Chris Hobson (May 2, 2022)

I have only just noticed that this item has been reposted in the book section. The thread seems to have derailed into an argument about the book's title which sort of misses the point. My recommendation was based on the fact that the book contains a whole lot of very useful information. When I was first diagnosed I only had a vague idea about what diabetes was. I am far better informed now and, had I read this book earlier, would have found out lots of things much sooner.

As for the argument about diabetes being reversed. I don't think that it is intended to mean that it can be in full remission or cured. It certainly can be turned in a positive direction by watching what you eat and staying active.


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## Drummer (May 2, 2022)

For anyone who has read this far and is still concerned about their prognosis - I was diagnosed with type two in 2016.
Having been telling HCPs that I could not deal with carbs for half a century I was not in the least surprized.
I changed my diet back to what I was eating when doing Atkins at no more than 50 gm of carbs a day.
My weight reduced, I barely noticed, my blood glucose went back to normal my energy returned, my Hba1c went down to 41 in 6 months.
There was not a moment of anxiety or concern.
That's it really. 
These days I could eat more carbs - just once in a while I do, but it increases my weight and it still takes ages to reduce down again, so I usually stick to under 40 gm of carbs a day.
I am perfectly happy and go out playing music for morris, maypole and longsword dancing.
In the evenings I sit and knit, listen to music and read the diabetes lists, but that is about as much influence type 2 has on my life these days.


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## Ditto (May 3, 2022)

I was under the impression that if you caught it in time you could reverse it but if left too long then control would be the thing.


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## Burylancs (May 3, 2022)

Ditto said:


> I was under the impression that if you caught it in time you could reverse it but if left too long then control would be the thing.


You've been misled. A secure diagnosis of Type 2 Diabetes, in the present state of knowledge, is a life sentence that cannot be 'reversed'. God knows what's happened to Diabetes UK, It's irresponsible of them to propagate Fake News like this to newbies.


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## Docb (May 3, 2022)

Burylancs said:


> You've been misled. A secure diagnosis of Type 2 Diabetes, in the present state of knowledge, is a life sentence that cannot be 'reversed'. God knows what's happened to Diabetes UK, It's irresponsible of them to propagate Fake News like this to newbies.



I think you have a point @Burylancs but go too far in making it.  I think we both have an inherent distaste for assigning labels where the label is imprecise and can be interpreted in different ways.  Gets even worse when somebody uses the label in a strap line to attract attention, to sell a book or to support a particular point of view. 

I have come to the conclusion that there is no way you can beat it and the only thing to do is to gently remind people that many things are nowhere near as clear and most ideas are nowhere near as universal as some would have you believe. There ought to be a label for that approach but I will not suggest one because I don't like labels.


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## grovesy (May 3, 2022)

Ditto said:


> I was under the impression that if you caught it in time you could reverse it but if left too long then control would be the thing.


Even the research done by the Newcastle team, only about half achieved remission.


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## travellor (May 3, 2022)

Ditto said:


> I was under the impression that if you caught it in time you could reverse it but if left too long then control would be the thing.



Definitely.
But I guess you have to accept the path that makes you happy, personally.
As someone once said, 

 " "Is that possible?" I never ask that question until after we've done it"


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## Chris Hobson (May 4, 2022)

Nobody here is claiming that diabetes can be cured. Reversed doesn't mean cured. Something that I have learned from reading this forum is that people's metabolisms are different and things that work for one person don't necessarily work for others. Endurance sports aren't for everyone but I found that doing them keeps my blood glucose levels under control while allowing me to have a relatively normal diet and mostly without medication. By a normal diet I mean avoiding refined sugar and avoiding anything that has a more than 50% carb content.  This as opposed to the really low carb diets that some other members use. Am I cured? No. Have I reversed my diabetes? Considering the state that I was in when first diagnosed, most certainly.


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## Burylancs (May 4, 2022)

Chris Hobson said:


> Nobody here is claiming that diabetes can be cured. Reversed doesn't mean cured. Something that I have learned from reading this forum is that people's metabolisms are different and things that work for one person don't necessarily work for others. Endurance sports aren't for everyone but I found that doing them keeps my blood glucose levels under control while allowing me to have a relatively normal diet and mostly without medication. By a normal diet I mean avoiding refined sugar and avoiding anything that has a more than 50% carb content.  This as opposed to the really low carb diets that some other members use. Am I cured? No. Have I reversed my diabetes? Considering the state that I was in when first diagnosed, most certainly.


The correct statement is in the middle of your post where you state that your regime allows you to keep 'my blood glucose levels under control'. If you are having to control it you clearly haven't 'reversed' it.


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## Chris Hobson (May 4, 2022)

"If you are having to control it you clearly haven't 'reversed' it."

If I'm having to control it I clearly haven't cured it. On the other hand, prior to my diagnosis in 2013 I ached all the time, had no energy, and was having bouts of faintness. After diagnosis I was using insulin for about nine months and linagliptin for some time after that. Now I use no medication. In 2017 I did an ironman and this morning I swam five miles. That my condition is less serious now then it was previously is beyond doubt. Prior to diagnosis my condition was getting progressively worse, since diagnosis it has been getting progressively better. It is going in the opposite direction to what it was which I would describe as a reversal. I doubt that it can continue to improve indefinitely obviously, and I will have to exercise and watch what I eat for the rest of my life. I'm certainly not going to let diabetes stop me from living it to the max.


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## helli (May 4, 2022)

Thank you @Chris Hobson for clearly stating this is for T2 in your subject.
It's a shame that the book title is not so clear. 
I really feel for those diagnosed as T1 and see all these headlines and books about how it is possible to reverse (and I am not going to discuss what that means) diabetes only to discover they are referring to a different disease. 
One of the worst things about my diagnosis was knowing I will have it for life (a cure for Type 1 has always been 10 years away) and there is nothing I can do about it. The false hope from these stories would have been horrible.


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## Chris Hobson (May 4, 2022)

I think that the most promising development for T1s is high tech insulin pumps which may eventually be able to mimic the actions of a healthy pancreas to some degree. You are right to point out that the book title doesn't specify type two but it is stated clearly on the cover.


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## helli (May 4, 2022)

Chris Hobson said:


> I think that the most promising development for T1s is high tech insulin pumps which may eventually be able to mimic the actions of a healthy pancreas to some degree. You are right to point out that the book title doesn't specify type two but it is stated clearly on the cover.


Unfortunately, pumps won't be able to mimic the actions of a healthy pancreas until we are able to manufacture insulin that works as fast as the stuff a healthy pancreas produces and a CGM which works in real time rather than with a 15 minute delay which we attempt to make up for with a prediction. 
Pumps today are great but they can't react fast enough to a rise in blood sugars to release insulin. They still need to rely on carb counting for eating and manual suspension when exercising.


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## travellor (May 4, 2022)

Burylancs said:


> The correct statement is in the middle of your post where you state that your regime allows you to keep 'my blood glucose levels under control'. If you are having to control it you clearly haven't 'reversed' it.



Garlic bread, lasagne and a nice glass of red tonight.
Just saying.


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## Trudy21 (May 27, 2022)

Chris Hobson said:


> I am currently in the process of re-reading the book 'Reverse your diabetes' by Dr. David Cavan. The book has been covered in the Recommended books section on this forum:
> 
> 
> https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/reverse-your-diabetes-dr-david-cavan.55224/
> ...


Thank you so much @Chris Hobson ~ I’ve been diagnosed type2 for 2 years but I am worried sick because my eyes are getting damaged already and I thought the pins and needles were down to my sciatica,
even though they are in my hands and feet too


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## Gwynn (May 27, 2022)

My own diabetes condition seems to be in remission and ALL of the diabetes symptoms that I had been suffering have been reversed. Whatever the terms used, I feel great and my health has improved a zillion fold.


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## Joshua (May 27, 2022)

Chris Hobson said:


> I am currently in the process of re-reading the book 'Reverse your diabetes' by Dr. David Cavan. The book has been covered in the Recommended books section on this forum:
> 
> 
> https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/reverse-your-diabetes-dr-david-cavan.55224/
> ...


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## Joshua (May 27, 2022)

Burylancs said:


> Quote - ']over time the disease process reasserts itself and continued destruction of the beta cells ensues."  [/I]That just seems to be a rhetorical survival from when it was thought that T2D was indeed necessarily progressive.'
> 
> Or it could just be the TRUTH Eddy based on 4000 years knowledge and experience of what is currently called Type 2 Diabetes.


It's a very hard knowing you have diabetes.my diabetes is from steroid use . I have been on them for 2 years. I am down to 7 mg. Might my diabetes go away when l am completely off steroids. The doctor once told me it would. I would like to know if this is true


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## Chris Hobson (May 27, 2022)

Gwynn said.
"My own diabetes condition seems to be in remission and ALL of the diabetes symptoms that I had been suffering have been reversed."

That is pretty much where I am and have been since about nine months after diagnosis. I feel perfectly fine and wouldn't really know that I had the condition if it weren't for the regular blood tests. I do realise though that this situation is wholly dependent upon my maintaining my diet and exercise regime. If I were to revert back to my former rather slovenly habits I suspect that I would relapse pretty quickly.


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## Windy (May 29, 2022)

Joshua said:


> Might my diabetes go away when l am completely off steroids


Hi Joshua, I've googled it and the answer is maybe :
"Is steroid-induced diabetes permanent? 
Many people will find that their blood sugar levels return to a healthy range when they stop taking steroids. But for others, steroid-induced diabetes can continue even after you’ve stopped your treatment"
It's probably a question for your doctor next time you see them.
Sarah


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## Mare (Jun 26, 2022)

Windy said:


> Reversed is also the term that Roy Taylor uses in the title of one of his books, and on the cover of the other book. He doesn't use it in his scientific papers, which makes me think "reversed" is aimed at the general public, whilst "remission" is the term used within the scientific community.
> But either way, the stuff I've read, and the experiences of other people on this forum makes me think it's real and worth a try for people with type 2. I'd rather travel hopefully, even if I don't get my diabetes reversed or in remission. I assume other type 2s are similar.
> Sarah


 Indeed. It is a matter of how we look at things with these terms. Hope is VERY important. When I was diagnosed two years ago; I was on 4 shots of insulin a day. I started the Newcastle protocol, lost 35 lbs, and am medication free...but... I still stress and suffer and know that I am diabetic. So...While we can improve our own health this disease does not go away, right?


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## Windy (Jun 26, 2022)

Mare said:


> Indeed. It is a matter of how we look at things with these terms. Hope is VERY important. When I was diagnosed two years ago; I was on 4 shots of insulin a day. I started the Newcastle protocol, lost 35 lbs, and am medication free...but... I still stress and suffer and know that I am diabetic. So...While we can improve our own health this disease does not go away, right?


You've done so well to lose the weight and become medication free. I take my hat off to you. Please don't stress and suffer - you've done everything you can to put the brakes on your diabetes.

My understanding is that if you're genetically predisposed to T2 diabetes (likely it runs in the family), and you got remission/reversal through weight loss, the diabetes will come if you put the weight on again. It's not gone forever, it's dependent on losing the weight and keeping it off. So focus on that, keep an eye on your weight and if it creeps up, go on a diet for a month and lose it again, so you can keep your foot on the brake.


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## travellor (Jun 26, 2022)

Mare said:


> Indeed. It is a matter of how we look at things with these terms. Hope is VERY important. When I was diagnosed two years ago; I was on 4 shots of insulin a day. I started the Newcastle protocol, lost 35 lbs, and am medication free...but... I still stress and suffer and know that I am diabetic. So...While we can improve our own health this disease does not go away, right?



I ate my way into diabetes, I ate my way out again.
Like anything, it's always possible I could eat my way back again, but I'm in control of that.
So, I don't stress it'll come back on its own.


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## Eddy Edson (Jun 27, 2022)

travellor said:


> I ate my way into diabetes, I ate my way out again.
> Like anything, it's always possible I could eat my way back again, but I'm in control of that.
> So, I don't stress it'll come back on its own.


Yep.


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## Chris Hobson (Jun 27, 2022)

Rather than dieting I put far more emphasis on exercise. I enjoy exercising, I know that some other people really hate it and I get that, but for me it's a good way to deal with weight issues. I  know that it doesn't work for everybody, there are people that I meet at the gym who are just as active as I am but don't lose weight in the same way. All this means that I only need to be basically sensible with regard to carb intake and don't need to have the kind of restricted diet that some on these forums have described.


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## SurreyFifties (Jul 4, 2022)

Regarding this book by Dr Cavan, I read the one by Professor Roy Taylor and it gave me a lot of useful insight - has anyone read both and if so is there much additional in Dr Cavans book to warrant me buying and reading it?


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## Windy (Jul 5, 2022)

Sorry, only read the Roy Taylor books and Fung (The diabetes code). Wasn't that impressed with Fung, didn't manage to finish the book. Taylor, on the other hand writes an excellent book. 
I keep meaning to order Dr Cavan's book too. If I do, I'll let you know how I found it.
Sarah


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## SurreyFifties (Jul 5, 2022)

Windy said:


> Sorry, only read the Roy Taylor books and Fung (The diabetes code). Wasn't that impressed with Fung, didn't manage to finish the book. Taylor, on the other hand writes an excellent book.
> I keep meaning to order Dr Cavan's book too. If I do, I'll let you know how I found it.
> Sarah


Thanks Sarah,
just noticed your weight loss story, really impressive. You’ve certainly hit the 15kg drop Roy Taylor speaks about!


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## Windy (Jul 10, 2022)

I bought a second hand copy of Dr Cavan's book and it's well written and easy to read. It covers why T2D happens, complications of D, diet modification, medication available, obesity and reversing your diabetes, activity, BG monitoring and goal setting (amongst other topics) and has a low carb message. 
Taylor's books cover most of these too, but focusses on putting your diabetes into remission/reverse by losing weight, and doesn't really touch on low carb eating.
So in terms of buying it in addition to Taylor's, I'd say you'd get a bit of extra information from it, but with the exception of the low carb eating, they're covering much the same ground. They're both well written.
I like that Prof Taylor has donated the proceeds of his books to Diabetes UK (his team's research was funded by DUK), but they're both good books and I would recommend either to new Type 2 diabetics.


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## SurreyFifties (Jul 10, 2022)

Windy said:


> I bought a second hand copy of Dr Cavan's book and it's well written and easy to read. It covers why T2D happens, complications of D, diet modification, medication available, obesity and reversing your diabetes, activity, BG monitoring and goal setting (amongst other topics) and has a low carb message.
> Taylor's books cover most of these too, but focusses on putting your diabetes into remission/reverse by losing weight, and doesn't really touch on low carb eating.
> So in terms of buying it in addition to Taylor's, I'd say you'd get a bit of extra information from it, but with the exception of the low carb eating, they're covering much the same ground. They're both well written.
> I like that Prof Taylor has donated the proceeds of his books to Diabetes UK (his team's research was funded by DUK), but they're both good books and I would recommend either to new Type 2 diabetics.


Thanks, that’s helpful, I’ll maybe buy it as well for the low carb eating element. I’ve got a lot out of Prof Taylors book, good to hear about the link with Diabetes UK.


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