# Misused English



## robert@fm (Apr 9, 2012)

From the same website as the "Fifty Bizarre U.S. Laws" blog:

Hooked on Phonics? Fifteen Mangled and Misused Phrases

To my mind the author has shown remarkable restraint (or remarkable ignorance) in posting only 15 of these; one could post 150,000 and still only be scratching the surface.  (And interestingly, the comments point out an error in this article; in British English, "towards" _is_ an acceptable alternative form of "toward".)

These are just a few of my pet hates in this area:


*I could care less*:  fortunately this appears to be mostly an Americanism, but unfortunately the internet means that one encounters this rubbish anyway.  I suspect that this came about because some idiot tried to be "clever" by mangling the correct phrase "I couldn't care less", i.e. "there is no lower level of caring which I could attain", to something like "I could care less, but that would require tranquilisers" (which conveys the intended meaning, but in an overelaborate way), and another idiot tried to be "clever" by shortening that to "I could care less" (which conveys the _opposite_ of the intended meaning).

*"To dampen" (to make wet) used where "to damp" (to suppress) is the intended meaning*:  This is now widespread, to the point where "to damp" is almost never seen mowadays.  I was once a direct victim of this at a voluntary agency I attended, because I typed up my CV and in it referred to my enthusiasm not being damped, and somebody for some reason copy-edited it and changed "damped" to "dampened"!  How on earth is somebody's enthusiasm made wet?

Some years before that, I saw a similar error in the sleeve-notes of an electronic music album; they referred to a "sine wave" (as in the trigonometric function), but some dumb copyeditor (who presumably was ignorant of mathematics and electronics both) had altered it to the nonsensical "sign wave".

*"Synthetic" misused as if it meant "artificial"*:  Whoever does this has probably never heard of photosynthesis (the _natural_ process by which plants get their energy).  One particularly bad case I came across was in a wiki entry (I won't name the wiki as it's far worse than Wikipedia, since it's not only edited by idiots as is usually the case with wikis, it's also run by an idiot) which referred to mono tracks on the US Capitol label being subjected to the Duophonic process to "synthetically"[sic] turn them into fake stereo.  Any mono-to-stereo process must necessarily involve taking apart the source material in order to place its components at different positions on the sound stage; such a process is thus analytic, not synthetic.


----------



## ypauly (Apr 9, 2012)

These things are often picked up by pedantic people with little better to do. The irony is strong here though as the title contains "misused" and I don't believe that's a word.



ETA My english is poor as you may well have guessed, I have problem with some words and grammar but even if it was perfect it would be a waste to use it just to hilight others errors on internet forums which is becoming more and more common.

Also all of the phrases listed for fall into the "you know what they meant catagory" even if they were said incorrectly.


----------



## robert@fm (Apr 9, 2012)

Actually, "misused" is a perfectly legitimate English word; "used" is the past tense of "to use" meaning "to utilise, to employ" and is here modified by the prefix "mis-" meaning that the said usage is wrong.

And since you insist, "English" is a proper noun and is thus capitalised (though I've heard that it can also be a common noun, for a type of spin), "others'" should have had an apostrophe on the end, and there are definitely no such words as "hilight" or "catagory" (I presume you meant "highlight" and "category" respectively).  

"Pedantic" is another of my pet hates; it's what the Wikipedia guidelines call a "weasel word", and in my experience its sole use is to make those who are right sound as if they're wrong.


----------



## ypauly (Apr 9, 2012)

lol calm down calm down


I did insert misused into two online dictionaries both removed the 'D' from the end. It maybe due to the hyphon (sp) being missing.


But I would really like to ask whoever bothered to type out that page you linked to why. Most things are picked up from the spoken word so mute and moot sound the same in so many differing accents, it's only when written the mistake is visable/noticable.

But spelling pedantry (sp) that is becoming so common is also becoming tedious and silly mostly as it isn't to correct the error but to poke fun at somebody and make out the person that spots a mistake is in some way big or clever.

Forums help people to comunicate and as long as you know what people are saying exact spelling and grammar isn't necessary, it's nice but not necessary.


----------



## Northerner (Apr 9, 2012)

Personally, I don't find anything wrong with discussing spelling and grammatical errors. Correct use of English, spelling and grammar aids understanding. Incorrect use can lead to misunderstanding or ambiguity or something nonsensical that the reader then has to spend time (if they can be bothered ) trying to interpret and translate. Maybe it's because I am a student of languages that I recognise the advantages of correct spelling etc., because you can end up with totally different meanings if you get things wrong. Paul, you'd love Russian or Chinese - in Russian the exact same word can mean two totally different things according to where you stress the syllables. Similarly, in Chinese (which is a tonal language), the same word using different tones can mean entirely different things.

As for forums, as long as what a person is trying to say is clear enough, I'm not too (note 'too', not 'to' ) bothered, but txtspk often goes too far, I find.


----------



## ukjohn (Apr 9, 2012)

Having had lots of members sing the praises of this group, and the way everyone supports each other, and asking how we can get more members. Well this is one way to reduce the membership. people reading this thread will think twice before posting for fear of being mocked or made to feel foolish in case their spelling is wrong or having the full stops and comma in the wrong place, it gives off a superior I'm better than you attitude. Alan, I'm sorry,but I'm surprised at your comments, you may be a student of languages and recognise the advantages of correct spelling, some of us are not. Then you go on to say that providing what we say is understandable, then you don't mind, are we to be gratefull for that. Ypauly I support you on this 100%. We with a lesser command of the English language should feel free to write without fear of being picked on.


----------



## robert@fm (Apr 9, 2012)

Have I ever "picked on" anybody in his forum?  Unless it's in an a least half-joking manner, as indicated by thw wink () smiley.  (Some people have argued against smilies on grounds such as "Charles Dickens didn't need them to convey emotion", but the fallacy of this argument is of course that most people don't have the command of English of Charles Dickens or Joanne Rowling, hence smilies do serve a genuine need.  It's like arguing that mobility equipment should be banned because <insert name of famous athelete> doesn't need it.)

I frequently notice errors in English usage on this forum (one recent slip, by a linguist I won't name, was to use "it's" (it is) instead of "its" (that which pertains to it).  In typing this aside, I nearly used "wont" (habit) rather than "won't" (will not).), but it's not my wont )) to draw attention to them.  Some things however, such as the ones I pointed out, are simply wrong.  Especially the use of "pedantic" to pretend that being _right_ is some kind of error.


----------



## Northerner (Apr 9, 2012)

ukjohn said:


> Having had lots of members sing the praises of this group, and the way everyone supports each other, and asking how we can get more members. Well this is one way to reduce the membership. people reading this thread will think twice before posting for fear of being mocked or made to feel foolish in case their spelling is wrong or having the full stops and comma in the wrong place, it gives off a superior I'm better than you attitude. Alan, I'm sorry,but I'm surprised at your comments, you may be a student of languages and recognise the advantages of correct spelling, some of us are not. Then you go on to say that providing what we say is understandable, then you don't mind, are we to be gratefull for that. Ypauly I support you on this 100%. We with a lesser command of the English language should feel free to write without fear of being picked on.



I wasn't criticising anyone John, it's just my own personal opinion when people say it isn't important or it's pedantic, but the context is very important. As far as forum posts from anyone goes, I have never felt about them in the way I might, for example, feel about a newspaper article or webpage etc. where it is more important. Here, it is irrelevant to me because what is important is hearing what the person has to say.


----------



## Robster65 (Apr 9, 2012)

I agree with all points of view to a degree.

I've always been a communicator and correct use of grammar is important in work or when conveying complex meaning but this forum is a fairly informal place frequented by a wide range of people and colloquailisms and informal language are acceptable.

That said, some members also enjoy banter and a light hearted disagreement can add some fun to a morning but can easily be (mis)interpreted by either side as a serious attack. I've made this mistake myself more than once I'm sure.

Rob


----------



## trophywench (Apr 10, 2012)

LOL  I can spell but often mis-type stuff.  However like Alan I don't get wound up about it; some folk are dyslexic; some folk haven't had the education I was lucky enough to have; some (lucky) people didn't have my mother (who was seriously pedantic amongst her many other faults - but then - who doesn't have faults?)  (well she didn't - according to her own opinion ROFL)

But just about the only thing that really really grates on me on any diabetes forum without fail every single time that someone does it - is the mis-spelling of the word 'ketones'.


----------



## Robster65 (Apr 10, 2012)

I'm sometimes surprised at the misspelling of medications that have been taken for years.

Although I do forget the ones I stopped taking years ago.

But it is a fact that not everyone reads or writes words in the same way. The brain receives the input from the eyes and from then on it's very much a personal thing. For some it's the shape of the word. For others it's the beginning and the end, and for others still it seems to be the sound of the word. 

And then there's those who have a lot to say and their brain is several words ahead of their fingers and it all gets a bot canfised tawurds the ind. 

Rob


----------



## mcdonagh47 (Apr 10, 2012)

Robster65 said:


> And then there's those who have a lot to say and their brain is several words ahead of their fingers and it all gets a bot canfised tawurds the ind.
> 
> Rob



but the biarn rades wlohe wodrs as lnog as the frist and lsat lteters are crorcet.


----------



## trophywench (Apr 10, 2012)

But there again McD - straight off I had trouble comprehending both 'biarn' and 'rades' - then I caught on what you were doing there!  Ptoty, ins't it?


----------



## robert@fm (Apr 10, 2012)

Regarding "misused" not turning up in searches of online dictionaries, I suspect that this could be because some such sites save on storage by only storing (and hence giving the definition for) the present tense of a verb, unless the other tenses are irregular; if they aren't, the dictionary site expects the user to be able to work out the relationship for themselves.

And another thing which gets up my nose is when grammar-Nazis complain about people splitting infinitives, or using prepositions to end sentences with.  These so-called "rules" were an attempt by Victorian idiots to force English into the mould of Latin, which is a very different language; even in Latin there are no such rules, since in that language it simply isn't possible to split an infinitive or to place a preposition at the end of a sentence, so rules against those actions would be even more pointless than they are in English.

And as for starting a sentence with a conjunction, if it was good enough for William Parry in writing the hymn _Jerusalem_, it's quite good enough for me.


----------



## robert@fm (Apr 10, 2012)

One common mistake is people, instead of looking up the meaning of an unfamiliar word, trying to guess the meaning from the context, and guessing wrongly; this leads to such things as the bus company which misused "essential" as if it means "advisable" (it actually means "compulsory").

Official notices have some very bad English, such as "up to ?200 or more" (which could mean any amount from zero to all the wealth of the world) and "also alighting point only" (if something is "also" then it isn't "only", and vice-versa).  One common mistake is to use the wrong conjunction, usually "and" (intersection) instead of "or" (union), such as "Customers must not consume food and drink in this shop" (meaning, if taken literally, that it's OK to consume one or the other as long as it isn't both).  I also get a bit annoyed with the "and/or" construction, since it's ugly and unnecessary; "this or that" already includes an implied "or both", unless it's "either this or that", in which case it's "not both".

Still, no grammar is quite as bad as the notice (probably written by someone trying to be too clever by half) which says "Passengers must not speak to or obscure the driver's vision while the bus is moving".  Every time I see it, I wonder how on earth one is supposed to speak to somebody's vision...


----------



## AlisonM (Apr 10, 2012)

One of my favourite bits of mangled English, was first spotted on a sign attached to the back door of a pub at Euston and lately at our local DWP office. The signs read: "This door is alarmed". Poor things, I wonder what scared them.

One of my least favourite Americanisms, which I find far too often these days, especially online is the word use in place of used. For example, "I use to go fishing". It's pure laziness.


----------



## Vicsetter (Apr 10, 2012)

robert@fm said:


> One common mistake is people, instead of looking up the meaning of an unfamiliar word, trying to guess the meaning from the context, and guessing wrongly; this leads to such things as the bus company which misused "essential" as if it means "advisable" (it actually means "compulsory").
> 
> Official notices have some very bad English, such as "up to ?200 or more" (which could mean any amount from zero to all the wealth of the world) and "also alighting point only" (if something is "also" then it isn't "only", and vice-versa).  One common mistake is to use the wrong conjunction, usually "and" (intersection) instead of "or" (union), such as "Customers must not consume food and drink in this shop" (meaning, if taken literally, that it's OK to consume one or the other as long as it isn't both).  I also get a bit annoyed with the "and/or" construction, since it's ugly and unnecessary; "this or that" already includes an implied "or both", unless it's "either this or that", in which case it's "not both".
> 
> Still, no grammar is quite as bad as the notice (probably written by someone trying to be too clever by half) which says "Passengers must not speak to or obscure the driver's vision while the bus is moving".  Every time I see it, I wonder how on earth one is supposed to speak to somebody's vision...



I hate the one that is commonly seen in public loos. 'Please place litter in the bin provided'.  is that provided it's not full or do people put rubbish in bins that haven't been provided!

And back when I was a schoolboy there was a an old sign on a bridge just outside Cardiff railway station which said 'drivers must not pass water on this bridge'.... Ah the days of steam trains and presumably no toilets in the cab, although I think it really referred to the overhead hose used to fill the boiler.


----------



## imtrying (Apr 11, 2012)

I am a lover of the English language. I have been well educated and have pet peeves about use of grammar BUT I am not perfect myself, and therefore I cannot expect anyone else to be. 

Just because I had 'it's would *have*, not would *of'* drummed into me every day of my childhood, doesn't mean any one else would care which version they used.  I also know which is correct, but that doesn't mean I use it every time...I just know it when I need to be correct. 

I spent years learning about the English language and have no doubt spent the last 10 years forgetting elements of it all. Whilst others may be well educated, and well read (and have held onto it) others are not so lucky. They may not have had it in the first place, or may just not have used it often enough since. I'd like to think I'm not stupid - I'm educated to degree level, studied English Literature at A-Level and come from a middle class family...but I'm human, and I get things wrong. I have no need in my day-to-day life to analyse the structure of a sentence or look for onomatopoeia, nor study Chaucer and Shakespeare.  

It doesn't matter on a forum how people use the language, as it is used to reflect themselves as individuals - colloquially. I can type in a well-to-do manner, but what's the point if I don't speak like that? 

I also couldn't care less how people type. Whether intentional, lazy or otherwise - what does it matter??? As long as they are communicating and contributing to this forum, I really couldn't care less. 

We are all different - that's what makes the world go round. If we were all the same, life would be boring.


----------



## Robster65 (Apr 11, 2012)

...and of course, languages evolve. The English we write today would have been criticized a century or two ago.

Likewise, it will have a different set of rules and spellings in another fifty years.

Rob


----------



## mcdonagh47 (Apr 11, 2012)

imtrying said:


> family...but I'm human, and I get things wrong. I have no need in my day-to-day life to analyse the structure of a sentence or look for onomatopoeia, nor study Chaucer
> .



Although the first lines of Canterbury Tales is relevant today ,....

"Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote
 The droghte of March hath perced to the roote,"

The drought of March and April showers ? spot on Geoffrey


----------



## Robster65 (Apr 11, 2012)

mcdonagh47 said:


> Although the first lines of Canterbury Tales is relevant today ,....
> 
> "Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote
> The droghte of March hath perced to the roote,"
> ...



He clearly didn't live in North Wales 

Rob


----------



## Northerner (Apr 11, 2012)

Robster65 said:


> He clearly didn't live in North Wales
> 
> Rob



The *i* paper listed the eight wettest places in the UK over the Bank Holiday - the top 6 were in Wales!


----------



## Robster65 (Apr 11, 2012)

Northerner said:


> The *i* paper listed the eight wettest places in the UK over the Bank Holiday - the top 6 were in Wales!



I would imagine at least 5 of them were clustered around the northwest corner.

There's still traces of snow on the tops of snowdonia. Fresh from a couple of nights ago. It's no surprise that they want Welsh Water to sell its commodity to the English. We still have plenty of mud around the place and could happily grow rice.

Rob


----------



## mcdonagh47 (Apr 21, 2012)

robert@fm said:


> From the same website as the "Fifty Bizarre U.S. Laws" blog:
> 
> Hooked on Phonics? Fifteen Mangled and Misused Phrases
> 
> ...



Theres a story on the BBC today about this ....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17762034


----------



## robert@fm (Apr 21, 2012)

Several years ago, there used to be an electronics catalogue which was full of interesting typos such as "grated full adder" (chopped logic, anyone?).  The one I found most amusing was the "expendable logic gate" -- I suppose it had a self-destruct circuit.


----------



## robert@fm (Apr 21, 2012)

mcdonagh47 said:


> Theres a story on the BBC today about this ....
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17762034



The  process described in that article is a constant and probably inevitable one.  One such example is "egregious", which means "exceptional" (from the Latin _ex gregaris_ "not of the flock") and until the late 1940s meant "exceptionally good".  In his essay "Politics and the English language", George Orwell got irate because one Professor Hogben had used the word in its modern sense of "exceptionally bad", leading me to wonder what on earth Orwell was complaining about until I learned the history of the word.  Likewise, in the 1990s "sad" came to mean "stupid", though fortunately this usage doesn't seem to have stuck.


----------



## trophywench (Apr 21, 2012)

"Sad" - the word used by my mother to describe any cake that sank in the middle instead of rising!  -  You must have put too much liquid in that.

Also used by young uns to describe 'geeky' people these days.  See now there's another word I didn't have knowledge of until recently.  You might be a boffin or a fanatic about your chosen subject, even a bore about it.  Depends whether it was adjudged to be a good thing or a bad thing by the person attributing the description.  But 'geek' seems to be used to describe anyone from Prof Hawking to someone with real social/MH probs etc and it's just all WRONG.  I mean you even had to further define the word 'peculiar' if you used it to describe someone, didn't you? - eg  'Haha funny, peculiar' or 'Really not quite the full shilling, peculiar'.

I said to some of the GC's the other day that despite them no doubt thinking I was pretty ancient, I was certainly not a complete techophobe concerning the particular subject and to my surprise no-one asked 'A what?'

Or 8 yo's coming home with a list of words for their homework some of which we have to look up with them, just to make 100% sure we explain exactly right!  Nothing wrong at all with having an extensive vocabulary, but Hey - let's get a basic one fully and firmly established first .......


----------



## mcdonagh47 (Apr 21, 2012)

robert@fm said:


> The  process described in that article is a constant and probably inevitable one.  One such example is "egregious", which means "exceptional" (from the Latin _ex gregaris_ "not of the flock") and until the late 1940s meant "exceptionally good".  In his essay "Politics and the English language", George Orwell got irate because one Professor Hogben had used the word in its modern sense of "exceptionally bad", leading me to wonder what on earth Orwell was complaining about until I learned the history of the word.  Likewise, in the 1990s "sad" came to mean "stupid", though fortunately this usage doesn't seem to have stuck.



One that grates on me is the current confusion between "disinterested" and "uninterested'. Shouted at TV several times when Simon Cowell says he is "disinterested" in a certain act.


----------



## robert@fm (Apr 21, 2012)

mcdonagh47 said:


> One that grates on me is the current confusion between "disinterested" and "uninterested'. Shouted at TV several times when Simon Cowell says he is "disinterested" in a certain act.



I agree with that one -- if Simon Cowell is one of the judges he's not allowed to be "disinterested" in any of the acts, that's not what he's getting paid for.  He might be "uninterested" but that's a different matter...

Before I read the Orwell essay I mentioned above, and before I learned the history of "egregious", I read the first Dirk Gently novel in which the professor (who, if I remember, is the novel's tritagonist) was described as "egregious", and since the context implied that this usage was intended to be positive, I was baffled by this.


----------



## mcdonagh47 (Apr 21, 2012)

robert@fm said:


> I agree with that one -- if Simon Cowell is one of the judges he's not allowed to be "disinterested" in any of the acts, that's not what he's getting paid for.  He might be "uninterested" but that's a different matter...
> 
> .



well Cowell has to be a disinterested Judge (i.e. neutral with no bias, judging its act on its merits)


----------



## Monica (Apr 22, 2012)

As a foreigner am I allowed to join this conversation???

I have a few pet hates too- should of, you was, I aren't!!! But when I tell the girls off, they just say: "who cares" or "same thing".
"Gay" is a word up here that has a third meaning now. You're gay if you said something that others don't agree with. I've been told quite a few times that I was gay!! I'm not sure, but I think that one is starting to fizzle out now, thank goodness.

Naturally, as a foreigner, I still make mistakes even after 20odd years of living in this country.

I was most surprised about the "hopefully" though. I only know the modern meaning. Hopefully you understand what I'm on about


----------



## Davmii (Apr 22, 2012)

An interesting thread to me as my wife is American (is that a proper noun?) and I can sometimes be pedantic about use and spelling of words. I have had to accept that her spelling of colour without a "u" is as valid as mine and that aluminum is the same metal as aluminium, an elevator is a lift etc. I always rib her that our version is correct as we invented English and the Americans have just mangled it. There are many other examples that I can't call to mind right now but just because someone spells or uses a word differently doesn't make them automatically wrong.
I agree with others that it is far more important for anyone to have their problems aired than for the spelling or punctuation to be correct in the forum environment, as long as the meaning can be understood. This is a place people turn to for help when they may be too embarrassed or scared to ask elsewhere and I am sure nobody on here would want to discourage that.
 Newspapers and advertisers should know better but that's another story


----------



## cakemaker (Apr 22, 2012)

I had a friend who was Ugandan. She came to England as an adult. She found some of the words strange and didn't understand the slang. She asked me once what 'gonna' meant. When I told her it was slang for 'going to' she said she thought that's what it probably meant. She said everyone used it. She didn't like it at all, she had been taught to speak proper English.
I personally hate 'could of' (could've) and 'should of' (should've)
On a site like this though bad spelling and punctuation are unimportant. It's the content that matters.


----------



## Robster65 (Apr 22, 2012)

I was thinking today that forum posts are an almagamation of written and spoken English. Very few people speak as they write, and vice versa.

But on here everyone has to develop their own style of posting, which conveys meaning but also their personality. Not so easy if written language isn't your strong point.

ROb


----------



## robert@fm (Apr 23, 2012)

One annoyance these days is that we're always being told to be on the lookout for "suspicious" packages, even though a package isn't intelligent and thus cannot harbour suspicion.  If you see a package which you think might be a bomb, _you_ are suspicious; _it_ is suspect.


----------

