# Is There Any Point In Eating Cereals



## Jon (Feb 6, 2011)

Following on from my post about Tesco flakes i have been looking at lots of different cereals.
My problem is the portions are so small for the amount of sugar in them.
A 40 gramme portion would not fill a corner of my stomach.

It would take 2 or 3 of those portions to satisfy me but look at the amount of sugar i would be consuming.

I hate being diabetic so much.


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## Andy HB (Feb 6, 2011)

Jon said:


> Following on from my post about Tesco flakes i have been looking at lots of different cereals.
> My problem is the portions are so small for the amount of sugar in them.
> A 40 gramme portion would not fill a corner of my stomach.
> 
> ...



It is so dependent on how you react to them, really.

Personally, I avoid all cereals with added sugar. I tend to go for porridge and perhaps Shredded Wheat. For sweetness, I add a small amount of dried fruit (cranberries are my current favourite) and I also add a bit of nutmeg to the porridge for additional flavour.

Andy


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## Alan S (Feb 6, 2011)

Jon said:


> Following on from my post about Tesco flakes i have been looking at lots of different cereals.
> My problem is the portions are so small for the amount of sugar in them.
> A 40 gramme portion would not fill a corner of my stomach.
> 
> ...


I can't speak for others but for me the answer is a resounding NO.

With one exception I have not eaten cereal, oats, muesli or similar as a breakfast food since I first realised what they did to my post-breakfast blood glucose levels. The exception is a mix I make for a bedtime snack of *Psyllium, Fibre, Muesli and Nuts* which helps my dawn phenomenon and is also useful for adding fibre to my menu. But I only eat a tiny serve of that by your standards  and I don't eat it every day.

Contrary to popular opinion, processed cereal is neither mandatory as a breakfast food nor was even popular as one before Sanitarium (of the Seventh Day Adventist organisation) and later Mr Kellogg convinced America - and the rest of the western world - otherwise. Tomorrow, try some of the ideas from here: *Breakfasts*

My favourite breakfasts almost all involve eggs, one way or another.


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## Robster65 (Feb 6, 2011)

Hi jon.

Try to think of it as your brain telling you that it needs so much food. Your body, on the other hand, is telling you that it can't handle what you've been feeding it to satisfy your brain's urges.

You need to make the choice between your brain and your body unfortunately. As we all do. You have some time to do it gradually but once you make the psychological change from hating it to seeing it as a means of eating within your body's limitations (we've all got faulty bodies in one way or another), you should feel a lot healthier.

I used to eat a huge bowl of cereal and I've been diabetic for a long time but chose to guess at portions. Recently, I was convinced that measuring would be a good idea and I was shocked, as you are, at the paltry amounts in the bowl. But once I got used to the amounts, my stomach adjusted along with my brain and I feel a whole lot happier that I can live a long healthy life with less risk of complications.

No one forces any of use but for our own sake we need to make that choice.

Rob


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## everydayupsanddowns (Feb 6, 2011)

Regardless of whether they are supposed to be healthier high fibre versions, or sugary nasties, I seem to find my post- breakfast levels unacceptably high after cereal. I've been experimenting for a year or so now. There seem to be times when I can cope with them (with the benefit of a rapid acting insulin injected perhaps 45 minutes before eating) but more often than not my system absorbs them way too quickly at that time of day.


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## am64 (Feb 6, 2011)

i was such a good girl pre dx ...had my prridge and shredded wheat ate loads of fruit and only drank fresh juice ...then i was dx started testing and realised what they did to my levels  so breakie now is usually a whole meal roll with some kind of filling !! or a piece of toast and peanut butter


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## Robster65 (Feb 6, 2011)

After clinging on to my beloved weetabix and bran flakes (in ever decreasing portions!) for years, I recently tried unsweetened muesli and natural yoghurt, in place of milk. Once it's all mashed up together it's actually quite nice and no matter what I do, my BG seems to stay well below 10 as it oozes out of my system gradually. 

Rob


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## Estellaa (Feb 6, 2011)

i eat crunchy nut every morning more or less, but i give my insulin afterwards, so depending on how much i've eaten and what my levels are i will give a little bit more insulin to cope with the sugaryness of crunchy nut, i told my dietitian what i have for breakfast she gave me other suggestions however she didn't seem that bothered about me having it.
so yeah i think there is a point in cereals, cause i wouldn't eat anything else apart from them in the morning, what else do you eat par cereals?


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## Jill-Louise (Feb 6, 2011)

OMG....i always have a bowl of cereals before i go to work. I don't particularly like having toast as it doesn't seem to keep the hunger at bay !

I usually have shredded wheat...is this ok or should i really not be having this for breakfast ? 

I also have a bowl of cereal sometimes before i go to bed if i haven't eaten a proper dinner.

Sorry Jon i hope you don't mind me stealing your thread. I'm new to all of this and i can't believe the amount of stuff i'm not meant to eat...


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## everydayupsanddowns (Feb 6, 2011)

Estellaa said:


> i eat crunchy nut every morning more or less, but i give my insulin afterwards, so depending on how much i've eaten and what my levels are i will give a little bit more insulin to cope with the sugaryness of crunchy nut, i told my dietitian what i have for breakfast she gave me other suggestions however she didn't seem that bothered about me having it.
> so yeah i think there is a point in cereals, cause i wouldn't eat anything else apart from them in the morning, what else do you eat par cereals?



Interesting that you are able to take your insulin afterwards Estellaa. Have you done much in the way of tests after breakfast to see what happens to your BGs? I think even plain cornflakes are expected to hit the bloodstream pretty quickly (in that they will be faster than a jam doughnut for many people). I suspect I'd certainly need to give my injection quite a bit before eating Crunchy Nut to stand any chance of staying out of the teens at the 1.5 hour mark.

I'd be very interested in your BG levels before and then 1 hour and 2 hours after breakfast.

Most T2's, of course, don't have the luxury of sticking insulin in to cover fast acting carbs, so for them the breakfast situation can be particularly complicated (especially if medical types keep telling you to eat lots of carbs at the time of day your body seems to struggle most with them!).

Jill - no one can tell you whether you can cope with shredded wheat apart from your BG meter. If you haven't got one already it's absolutely your best weapon in the battle against high BGs. Different people react differently to all sorts of foods at different times of the day. Low GI/GL can help, but many T2s seem to find breakfast particularly difficult where carbs are concerned.


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## caffeine_demon (Feb 6, 2011)

Since my diagnosis - I've discovered that bran flakes do send my levels sky high - even in a small quantity (Have you seen the sugar conrtent in kellogs bran flakes though??), all bran is fine.

most days my brekky is porridge mixed with a bit of bran, and I may try that psyllium stuff as well! - 1.5 oz gives a good portion (cereal portions are one thing I have managed to cut down on over the years!) another good thing I've discovered is one of my local health food shops sells malted toasted wheat flakes - no added sugar - these are good with a sprinkling of sultanas.


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## Steff (Feb 6, 2011)

I used to have cornflakes with milk only on but i found i would struggle to get single figures with that, only after someone gave me the idea on here cant remember who it was to try scrambled egg and bacon did i try it and now thats what i stick to if i have the time in the morning which is 5 mornings out of 7...So I now avoid cereal now accept the odd occasion i have porriage.


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## FM001 (Feb 6, 2011)

Avoid the sugar coated cereals and go for no added sugar muesli or rough cut scotch porridge oats, most cereals contain added vitamins and are a great source of dietary fibre which is beneficial to the digestive system.  Sprinkle a few berries on and a spoonful of low fat yogurt and you have a delicious and nutritious breakfast to start the day.


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## Estellaa (Feb 6, 2011)

i dont usually test until lunch time so i wouldn't know, but i don't have snacks in the morning, therefore i eat crunchy nut which usually keeps my levels at a stable level until have lunch.


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## C*5_Dodger (Feb 6, 2011)

Jon said:


> Following on from my post about Tesco flakes i have been looking at lots of different cereals.
> My problem is the portions are so small for the amount of sugar in them.
> A 40 gramme portion would not fill a corner of my stomach.
> 
> ...


 
Dear Jon,

Not withstanding all the advice you've been given, the only person that can answer your question is you! If you don't have a BG meter you need to get one. Then you can determine what foods (carbs) you can tolerate. Have a look at this site for a way to go about determining what foods you can eat, left click on this link http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14045524.php

Warmest Regards  Dodger


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## donnarob (Feb 6, 2011)

hi Guys, 

If you're anything like me, I kinda go off eggs if I'm having them too often.  However, if I have eggs for breakfast, my levels are always reasonable.  If I have porridge (which I love, sprinkled with Cinnamon and topped with berries), I spike.  Porridge is slow releasing energy though and  I always feel good when I have it.  Usually after 4 hrs, my levels come down to under 6.  How does short term spiking affect you? 

Donna


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## C*5_Dodger (Feb 6, 2011)

donnarob said:


> hi Guys,
> 
> If you're anything like me, I kinda go off eggs if I'm having them too often.  However, if I have eggs for breakfast, my levels are always reasonable.  If I have porridge (which I love, sprinkled with Cinnamon and topped with berries), I spike.  Porridge is slow releasing energy though and  I always feel good when I have it.  Usually after 4 hrs, my levels come down to under 6.  How does short term spiking affect you?
> 
> Donna



Dear donnarob,

Not at all, because I have used my meter to discover what carbs I can tolerate. In fact I only test once a day now because I know what I can safely eat.

Warmest Regards  Dodger


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## rossi_mac (Feb 6, 2011)

I personnally am also amazed at how we all automatically eat cereals in the morning and how much sugar is in them even the ones that are thought to be healthy!

I do love some porridge in the cold mornings and any form of eggs,  have of late been having more natural yoghurt (home made) with red berries dates and a sprikle of oats, but generally speaking my cereal would be 2 shredded wheat, they seem okay I think they are low GI and I like them as it is then a fixed amount of carbs without weighing.

but yes it is probably the worst part od the D for me!


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## margie (Feb 6, 2011)

donnarob said:


> hi Guys,
> 
> If you're anything like me, I kinda go off eggs if I'm having them too often.  However, if I have eggs for breakfast, my levels are always reasonable.  If I have porridge (which I love, sprinkled with Cinnamon and topped with berries), I spike.  Porridge is slow releasing energy though and  I always feel good when I have it.  Usually after 4 hrs, my levels come down to under 6.  How does short term spiking affect you?
> 
> Donna



If by you, you mean the generic you then it will depend on the size of your spike. If (with your spike) you stay below 10 I can't see it being a problem - I was told that non-diabetics could get close to but not over 10.  Over that I couldn't really comment as there are so many variable ie the length of time at higher levels, genetics etc ( sorry not a very helpful response)


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## C*5_Dodger (Feb 6, 2011)

margie said:


> If by you, you mean the generic you then it will depend on the size of your spike. If (with your spike) you stay below 10 I can't see it being a problem - I was told that non-diabetics could get close to but not over 10.  Over that I couldn't really comment as there are so many variable ie the length of time at higher levels, genetics etc ( sorry not a very helpful response)



Dear margie,

Non diabetics never go anywhere near 10 no matter what they eat. It is more like 7mmol/L

Regards   Dodger


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## margie (Feb 6, 2011)

C*5_Dodger said:


> Dear margie,
> 
> Non diabetics never go anywhere near 10 no matter what they eat. It is more like 7mmol/L
> 
> Regards   Dodger



I am quoting several (not just one) DSNs - its not something I came up with myself. I personally have no evidence one way or the other.  

The diagnostic criteria that I have just found says 

An FPG level >126 mg/dl (7.0 mmol/l) or a casual plasma glucose >200 mg/dl (11.1 mmol/l) meets the threshold for the diagnosis of diabetes.  

I have no idea what proportion of people get BMs  between 7 and 10 but with that criteria it doesn't look uncommon. Do you have a source for non diabetics going no where near 10 ?


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## shiv (Feb 6, 2011)

Estellaa said:


> i dont usually test until lunch time so i wouldn't know, but i don't have snacks in the morning, therefore i eat crunchy nut which usually keeps my levels at a stable level until have lunch.



I would suspect, knowing cereal, that you are shooting right up and dropping back down, which is not good for the ol' body. It's why most people who eat cereal inject way before they eat (so the insulin is well and truly in the blood stream, waiting for the cereal) to stop themselves spiking hugely.


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## C*5_Dodger (Feb 6, 2011)

margie said:


> I am quoting several (not just one) DSNs - its not something I came up with myself. I personally have no evidence one way or the other.
> 
> The diagnostic criteria that I have just found says
> 
> ...



Dear margie,

I sure do, you will see that the average peak is about 7 (126mg/dL) and +2 standard deviations is only about 162mg/dL. Have a look *here*

Regards   Dodger


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## HelenM (Feb 6, 2011)

C*5_Dodger said:


> Dear margie,
> 
> Non diabetics never go anywhere near 10 no matter what they eat. It is more like 7mmol/L
> 
> Regards   Dodger


 Maybe more people reach higher levels than is sometimes suggested.
 Continuous monitoring of the 'non-diabetic' control group in a recent multinational study revealed that nearly all of the subjects exceeded 7.8mmol/l at some point in the day.Some for considerable periods.  Ten percent of  the subjects reached levels over 11.1mmol/l . (which of course would be a diagnosis of diabetes if reached on a lab test on more than one occasion)



> These findings suggest that glucose levels in persons without diabetes frequently reach IGT range concentrations and that a considerable proportion reach diabetic levels



  The subjects  had no history of diabetes, a plasma glucose level ≤5.4 mmol/l (97 mg/dl) after an overnight fast and an HbA1c <6.5%. The fasting glucose level was 'chosen due to its high specificity for excluding diabetes without performing an OGTT'
hhttp://www.springerlink.com/content/a55l12337v273511/fulltext.htmlttp://


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## mcdonagh47 (Feb 6, 2011)

C*5_Dodger said:


> Dear margie,
> 
> I sure do, you will see that the average peak is about 7 (126mg/dL) and +2 standard deviations is only about 162mg/dL. Have a look *here*
> 
> Regards   Dodger



Well let's see, on the chart the high point is 162 which equates to 9.1 which would seem to be quite near 10.
Also the description of the chart tells us that the brown lines represent the upper and lower limits of "most" bgs, implying that there may be some well over 162 and scoring 10.


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## margie (Feb 6, 2011)

I haven't taken a proper look at the data properly yet - but I would comment that a sample of 24 people is not very large, and the maximum HbA1C of any of the sample was 5.4. I intend to watch the presentation later.


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## C*5_Dodger (Feb 6, 2011)

HelenM said:


> Maybe more people reach higher levels than is sometimes suggested.
> Continuous monitoring of the 'non-diabetic' control group in a recent multinational study revealed that nearly all of the subjects exceeded 7.8mmol/l at some point in the day.Some for considerable periods.  Ten percent of  the subjects reached levels over 11.1mmol/l . (which of course would be a diagnosis of diabetes if reached on a lab test on more than one occasion)
> 
> 
> ...



Dear HelenM,

The diagram I used was from a clinical study aimed at determining glucose levels for normal people. They ensured all participants passed OGTT and in fact did not have IGT. Go to the site again and you can listen to the presentation made at the Annual Meeting of the EASD in Copenhagen 2006. BTW I can't open the link you provided!

Regards  Dodger


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## C*5_Dodger (Feb 6, 2011)

mcdonagh47 said:


> Well let's see, on the chart the high point is 162 which equates to 9.1 which would seem to be quite near 10.
> Also the description of the chart tells us that the brown lines represent the upper and lower limits of "most" bgs, implying that there may be some well over 162 and scoring 10.



I don't think you can use the few % at the outlying regions to state that 10 is normal. Have you got a faulty calculator? (162 maps to 9.0 lol) BTW +-2 SDs means just over 95% are within the so bounded region, so there is +-2.5% outside it. Yes I know that my figures assume a normal distribution, so there may some error in what I quote


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## newbs (Feb 6, 2011)

For me, personally, weetabix doesn't affect me too much and I only need 4 units of insulin to keep my levels stable until lunch.  I eat weetabix 5 days out of 7 for this reason as I need to know my levels are going to be fine on weekdays.  On a weekend I generally have porridge as that isn't too bad but requires more insulin. 

Can totally understand why Type 2's have such a problem with cereal.


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## HelenM (Feb 6, 2011)

> Dear HelenM,
> 
> The diagram I used was from a clinical study aimed at determining glucose levels for normal people. They specifically excluded people who did not pass an OGTT. Go to the site again and you can listen to the presentation made at the Annual Meeting of the EASD in Copenhagen 2006. BTW I can't open the link you provided!
> 
> Regards Dodger


The problem, as is so often the case . is that the variables are slightly different. On the study you quote the subjects were monitored on only 2 days of free living. I do wonder how much that affected their behaviour.  In it's favour,  the participants had all passed an OGTT. On the other study, the subjects were monitored for 12 weeks but the criteria for normality didn't include an OGTT. 
I'll try the reference again
http://www.springerlink.com/content/a55l12337v273511/fulltext.html

What I believe is that the evidence so far suggests that glucose variability and the levels reached in non diabetics varies considerably; we can't say that they never reach high levels.  (nor whether brief high levels are necessarily damaging but that's a different question)


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## mcdonagh47 (Feb 6, 2011)

C*5_Dodger said:


> I don't think you can use the few % at the outlying regions to state that 10 is normal. Have you got a faulty calculator? (162 maps to 9.0 lol) BTW +-2 SDs means just over 95% are within the so bounded region, so there is +-2.5% outside it. Yes I know that my figures assume a normal distribution, so there may some error in what I quote



Nobody suggested 10 was normal, not Margie or HelenM, certainly not me. You imported the word "normal" into the discussion.
They suggested it was possible for non-dmers to occasionally score 10s.


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## Adrienne (Feb 6, 2011)

Hiya

I haven't read all the replies in this, only got as far as Alan S and I agree with im 100%, my answer would also be a resounding NOOOOOOOO, don't bother with cereal as a type 1 or a typd 2.

Cereal is so hard to get right even with an injection of insulin.

At a conference I went to last year (FFL for those who went) we learnt from an expert that the best cereal to have would be yoghurt and you can add fruit.   They said it would not spike and keep levels level until lunch time.

So I made (or bribed is a better word) my daughter to have plain yoghurt and fruit ever breakfast for a week. She has raspberries and strawberries and he was right.   It is the best in 10 years, no spike at all, not even a tiny one and levels find until lunch and it was a straightforward bolus !

Just goes to show you.  It is all about the fat content.   These were normal yoghurts not fat free or low fat.


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## C*5_Dodger (Feb 6, 2011)

HelenM said:


> The problem, as is so often the case . is that the variables are slightly different. On the study you quote the subjects were monitored on only 2 days of free living. I do wonder how much that affected their behaviour.  In it's favour,  the participants had all passed an OGTT. On the other study, the subjects were monitored for 12 weeks but the criteria for normality didn't include an OGTT.
> I'll try the reference again
> http://www.springerlink.com/content/a55l12337v273511/fulltext.html
> 
> What I believe is that the evidence so far suggests that glucose variability and the levels reached in non diabetics varies considerably; we can't say that they never reach high levels.  (nor whether brief high levels are necessarily damaging but that's a different question)



Dear HelenM,

Yes the link now works, and I certainly had not seen it before. I clearly based my comments to margie on the presentation made at the Annual Meeting of the EASD in Copenhagen 2006, so maybe I should have been more precise and said:
 "On average, non diabetics never go anywhere near 10 no matter what they eat. It is more like 7mmol/L". Because both studies do in fact show a large variability. As you go further away from 7mmol/L the number of people reaching that level gets less and less, so your last paragraph sums it up well. I would like to thank you and margie for a stimulating discussion. I guess it is time for us to stop hyjacking this thread!

Warmest Regards  Dodger


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## margie (Feb 6, 2011)

I was going to say that I would have liked to have seen the raw data, because I have serious reservations that gives summary information based on 24 people but then graphs based on 21.  That shows a certain level of misinformation that may not be picked up if you were not paying attention. Of course the summary information may have remained much as it was - it just causes me worries - as your analysis is only as good as the data.

The other comment is that the study only used people with HbA1Cs that although normal were on the low side (the average stated was 5 and the maximum 5.4). Given that you would expect the mean of the samples to be lower than if they used a set of people evenly distributed across the normal HbA1C range. 

I would be interested though to see a study that had far more people in it and who were distributed across the whole 'normal' range.


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## FM001 (Feb 6, 2011)

Adrienne said:


> don't bother with cereal as a type 1 or a typd 2.
> 
> Cereal is so hard to get right even with an injection of insulin.




Not true Adrienne and there are no reasons why a type 1 diabetic should refrain from eating a good quality cereal, my own blood glucose rarely goes above 8 postprandial and is always back in the 6's after 2 hours. Choosing the right cereal is important as you will see if you read the whole thread, this is then followed by weighing your portion and then giving the correct dose of insulin, get this right then you are on a winner.  Always choose cereals that are lower in the glycemic index as they are less likely to cause spikes.


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## aymes (Feb 6, 2011)

Cereal doesnt cause any real problems for me, I have it for breakfast most mornings. I tend to go for the granola type cereals and have it with yoghurt rather than the very sugary cereals. One advantage I seem to have is that I buck the morning trend... I'm more insulin sensitive in the mornings than I am the rest of the day. So for me, yes there is a point to having cereal, I enjoy it and it causes me no problems that would override that. Of course for someone else who spikes more for cereal would probably come to a different conclusion!


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## Adrienne (Feb 6, 2011)

toby said:


> Not true Adrienne and there are no reasons why a type 1 diabetic should refrain from eating a good quality cereal, my own blood glucose rarely goes above 8 postprandial and is always back in the 6's after 2 hours. Choosing the right cereal is important as you will see if you read the whole thread, this is then followed by weighing your portion and then giving the correct dose of insulin, get this right then you are on a winner.  Always choose cereals that are lower in the glycemic index as they are less likely to cause spikes.



Maybe I should have worded it differently then.   I think you and the few others are very lucky that after cereal you don't spike higher.  I can only speak for children and hopefully my daughter will be like you when she is older and not get the spike.    She doesn't and never has had the childrens type of cereal, she only ever has had porridge, weetabix, shredded wheat, that type of thing and it is still never as good as the yoghurt.

I see that Aymes has cereal but she has yoghurt with it, maybe that is the trigger for Aymes for good control and no spike.     

I do know all about weighing and correct insulin dose etc etc so it is not as though I'm doing it wrong.  Only speaking from experience and the conversations we have on the cwd site so perhaps I should have once again said that I can only state this from a point of view of a child with type 1 maybe.

I still stand by the yoghurt though.

Have you ever tested at an hour?   This is a big part of the talk.  Some levels will spike at an hour and then what you see at 2 hours is the coming down level.    Has anyone ever thought about that?  Might help some might not.


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## Andy HB (Feb 6, 2011)

I think I might test myself an hour after eating my bowl of porridge (I tend to go for their suggested portion size of 40g of oats).

The thing is, after 2hrs I've been back in the 4's and feeling pretty hungry so it would be quite informative, I think.


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## Alan S (Feb 6, 2011)

Jill-Louise said:


> OMG....i always have a bowl of cereals before i go to work. I don't particularly like having toast as it doesn't seem to keep the hunger at bay !
> 
> I usually have shredded wheat...is this ok or should i really not be having this for breakfast ?
> 
> ...


Is that OK?

Ask your meter an hour after your bowl of cereal for the answer.


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## Adrienne (Feb 7, 2011)

Jill-Louise said:


> Sorry Jon i hope you don't mind me stealing your thread. I'm new to all of this and i can't believe the amount of stuff i'm not meant to eat...



Hi

Only just seen this as Alan S replied to it.   Jill-Louise, don't panic.  It is not about what you are allowed to eat or not allowed to eat.  It is really all about what works for you.   This applies to any and all food and drink.  What works for one doesn't work for another.   The people on here can give you their experiences and you can read it all and try  things out.  It is all trial and error.  You might be ok with all or some or no cereals.   Just test it all out and at the moment write it all down.


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## FM001 (Feb 7, 2011)

Adrienne said:


> Have you ever tested at an hour?   This is a big part of the talk.  Some levels will spike at an hour and then what you see at 2 hours is the coming down level.    Has anyone ever thought about that?  Might help some might not.



Certainly have and the 8 figure I quoted earlier is the highest my blood glucose reaches one hour after eating.  When experimenting with food I test 1,2 and 4 hours after to see what effect this has on my bloods, I repeat this over a period of days to verify the results before including or excluding foods in my diet.  Children much like adults will all react differently to food and this is why we should never go on one individuals experiences, obviously your child can't tolerate cereal and you are wise to avoid this and look for a alternatives.


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## Ergates (Feb 7, 2011)

I'm never quite sure why people want to eat cereal so much.  I'm totally fine with it if you like it, but all this stuff about most of the brands and varieties being a healthy breakfast is utter rubbish.  There are much better things to eat.


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## Robster65 (Feb 7, 2011)

This is true, but sometimes we enjoy things that are 'nice' (to us) rather than good for us. 

I spent most of my life eating things I shouldn't really but getting away with it mostly. I'm now starting to look for food that is good and keep the nice stuff for treats.

I do wonder if the yoghurt is the key to suppressing the spikes. The muesli I'm eating is unsweetened but I've not tried it without yoghurt yet, so not sure if it's the combination that's working.

Rob


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## heasandford (Feb 7, 2011)

just found this, sorry for interrupting ! As a type 1 like you, this is scary, how do you know that you aren't going to peak first and go hypo? I have got completely out of the habit of injecting much beefore eating, it is immediate - perhaps this is one of my problems...?


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## heasandford (Feb 7, 2011)

shiv said:


> I would suspect, knowing cereal, that you are shooting right up and dropping back down, which is not good for the ol' body. It's why most people who eat cereal inject way before they eat (so the insulin is well and truly in the blood stream, waiting for the cereal) to stop themselves spiking hugely.


oops sorry again, this was what I meant!!


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## Adrienne (Feb 7, 2011)

heasandford said:


> just found this, sorry for interrupting ! As a type 1 like you, this is scary, how do you know that you aren't going to peak first and go hypo? I have got completely out of the habit of injecting much beefore eating, it is immediate - perhaps this is one of my problems...?



Hi

There are studies that have been done and the optimum time for your injection is 20 minutes before eating.   They studied 10, 15, 30 mins but 20 was the best.

Its hard to remember though and I have remembered to shout upstairs to Jessica to bolus about 10 minutes before breakfast, I am not quite there first thing in the morning.  

What is easier on a pump and not so easy on injections is giving a downpayment.    What I mean by that is that we don't always know how much you are going to eat (especially kids) or if you are in a restaurant how many chips you are going to get so can't guess till you have seen them.   So the ideal scenario is to leave a downpayment of insulin ie give youself some beforehand.   So if you have ordered chips you know you are going to be having at least 20 carbs so you can bolus for 20 carbs and when you get the meal you can guess and minus 20 carbs and bolus for the rest but the insulin will have already started working from the down payment, simples


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## Adrienne (Feb 7, 2011)

toby said:


> Certainly have and the 8 figure I quoted earlier is the highest my blood glucose reaches one hour after eating.  When experimenting with food I test 1,2 and 4 hours after to see what effect this has on my bloods, I repeat this over a period of days to verify the results before including or excluding foods in my diet.  Children much like adults will all react differently to food and this is why we should never go on one individuals experiences, obviously your child can't tolerate cereal and you are wise to avoid this and look for a alternatives.



Absolutely agree Toby, everyone is different.   You are lucky that cereal is ok for you.   

We are doing weetabix at the moment and if she bolus' way up front we can just about cope.   At weekends when we have more time we just don't bother with cereals.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Feb 7, 2011)

Adrienne - That's a great approach and one which can work really well (especially, as you suggest, eating out)

Toby - Happy for you that cereals rarely seem to spike you above 8. I would count that as an excellent outcome. For my own recent experience (with either no-added-sugar low fruit/high nut Dorset Cereals + yoghurt or rough-cut porridge oats made with water and a splash of milk, no fruit, no sugar) is to expect a 1 hour *rise* of more like 6-8mmol/L at the 1 hour mark from wherever I started (ie a BG of more like 12mmol/L). Occasionally as much as 10mmol/L higher. Some of that rise may be due to liver action, but the spike I have observed from cereals of whatever alleged GI has been consistently worse than, say Burgen toast (for me obviously the situation may be the opposite way round for someone else!). 

Sorry but this post of yours made me grind my teeth:


> Not true Adrienne and there are no reasons why a type 1 diabetic should refrain from eating a good quality cereal, my own blood glucose rarely goes above 8 postprandial and is always back in the 6's after 2 hours. Choosing the right cereal is important as you will see if you read the whole thread, this is then followed by weighing your portion and then giving the correct dose of insulin, get this right then you are on a winner. Always choose cereals that are lower in the glycemic index as they are less likely to cause spikes.



As ever the only thing you can do is 'eat to your meter', test, review and adjust and always remember that Your Diabetes May Vary 

M


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## FM001 (Feb 7, 2011)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Sorry but this post of yours made me grind my teeth:
> 
> 
> As ever the only thing you can do is 'eat to your meter', test, review and adjust and always remember that Your Diabetes May Vary




Odd that it should make you want to grind your teeth when you have basically said the same as I did with regards to testing


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## everydayupsanddowns (Feb 7, 2011)

I think perhaps you just hit a nerve... By way of explanation (my emphasis):



> *Not true Adrienne* and there are *no reasons* why a type 1 diabetic should refrain from eating a *good quality cereal*, my own blood glucose rarely goes above 8 postprandial and is always back in the 6's after 2 hours. *Choosing the right cereal is important* as you will see if you read the whole thread, this is then followed by *weighing your portion* and then giving the *correct dose* of insulin, *get this right then you are on a winner*. Always choose cereals that are lower in the *glycemic index* as they are less likely to cause spikes.



I choose med-low GI cereal
I choose good quality product
I weigh my portion
I inject the correct dose
I even give the insulin a head start (30-45 minutes) to combat the spike
I am most certainly not 'on a winner'
I don't get the results you get

I think you are right... we seem to have a very similar approach to diabetes management. It was only the suggestion (read between the lines) that my spikes were down to my 'not doing it right' in some way, whereas it just seems that you can cope with cereal in a way that I can't.

I rarely get any problem with eating pizza, pasta, or mashed potato. But I know from reading other's posts that this would not be the case for everyone.

Hope I didn't ruffle your feathers 

M
(teeth now un-grinded)


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## FM001 (Feb 7, 2011)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> I think perhaps you just hit a nerve... By way of explanation (my emphasis):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No you certainly haven't ruffled my feathers but you  shouldn't  get so uptight about other people's experiences, it would never do to mock over peoples experiences as they are as worthy and valid as the next persons.

Impressive that you can eat mash potato as this is a impossibility with my diabetes and causes huge spikes, boiled, baked or roast are all just fine.
Toby (unruffled)


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## shiv (Feb 7, 2011)

Hi Toby, I don't think Mike was getting uptight. I have to say the post you made (that he referred to) also ruffled my feathers, as the tone of it - which as always is hard to gauge, as this is the internet - implied that we are doing something wrong when eating cereal. I too follow all those rules and still cannot manage cereal properly.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Feb 7, 2011)

HELP! 

I fear this thread is wobbling on the edge of a slide into madness.

I'm fine. Toby's fine. We both understand what each other meant. There's no problem. 

Lets all hace a nice cup of tea


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## shiv (Feb 7, 2011)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> HELP!
> 
> I fear this thread is wobbling on the edge of a slide into madness.
> 
> ...



Nah - it's Monday morning and we're all just grumpy from having to go back to work 

I'm off shopping tonight so will check out some sort of muesli and yoghurt combination. Do people eat it with flavoured or plain yoghurt?


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## Adrienne (Feb 7, 2011)

shiv said:


> Nah - it's Monday morning and we're all just grumpy from having to go back to work
> 
> I'm off shopping tonight so will check out some sort of muesli and yoghurt combination. Do people eat it with flavoured or plain yoghurt?



I made Jessica eat plain and she was not happy.    Greek yoghurt is my favourite and full of fat so could be a plan.  I guess you  need to find the happy balance between a lovely full fat yoghurt but not so you end up eating bucketloads that you put on weight 

Look at the Muller Light ones.  They now do vanilla with chocolate and Orange with chocolate (just sprinkles mind you but they are delicious).   (They are free on my eating plan)


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## shiv (Feb 7, 2011)

Adrienne said:


> I made Jessica eat plain and she was not happy.    Greek yoghurt is my favourite and *full of fat so could be a plan*.  I guess you  need to find the happy balance between a lovely full fat yoghurt but not so you end up eating bucketloads that you put on weight
> 
> Look at the Muller Light ones.  They now do vanilla with chocolate and Orange with chocolate (just sprinkles mind you but they are delicious).   (They are free on my eating plan)



Had to chuckle at that - most people aim to have a low fat diet, but for us sometimes we need that fat!

Those yoghurts do sound yummy, I'll see if the big S has any deals on.


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## FM001 (Feb 7, 2011)

shiv said:


> Nah - it's Monday morning and we're all just grumpy from having to go back to work





Not for me shiv as I have a few days off work    just a shame I didn't tell my office staff as the phone has never stopped ringing!


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## novorapidboi26 (Feb 7, 2011)

Interesting discussion, unfortunately for me I am always high in the morning so even with the 2 weetabix and milk I have I always take a drop in BGs due to the large corredtional dose and a bolus dose ratio of 3units : 10g......

If I can eliminate, or should I say when I can eliminate this I will definetly be trying cereal alternatives.....


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## Adrienne (Feb 7, 2011)

novorapidboi26 said:


> Interesting discussion, unfortunately for me I am always high in the morning so even with the 2 weetabix and milk I have I always take a drop in BGs due to the large corredtional dose and a bolus dose ratio of 3units : 10g......
> 
> If I can eliminate, or should I say when I can eliminate this I will definetly be trying cereal alternatives.....



Hiya

Have you tried no cereal?   You probably have but thought I would mention it anyway.

For Jessica she gets a mid morning spike even if she eats no breakfast and so we have a really high basal set at 5 am to deal with the 10 am high (lots of the kids have this).  However this doesn't help with those on MDI but just shows what has to be done on a pump to conquer this silly midmorning or earlier high level.  

It might be worth just cutting out all cereal for a week to see what happens and eating the yoghurt and fruit or scrambled eggs and bacon and one piece of seeded or nutty bread.

Could be worth a try maybe.


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## bev (Feb 7, 2011)

Hi all,
We have tried all sorts with cereal and the best one so far is porridge - we do a 70/30 split over 3 hours and very little spike. We have tried all the tricks to do with timing and when to bolus and altering the basal to accomodate it -but find that cereal is one of the hardest things to get right. Everyone is individual and what works for one person wont necessarily work for another - its just trial and error and working out what is right for yourself.Bev


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## novorapidboi26 (Feb 7, 2011)

Adrienne said:


> Hiya
> 
> Have you tried no cereal?   You probably have but thought I would mention it anyway.
> 
> ...



I actually never used to have breakfast, but because of the dawn phenomenon I was never coming down on target for lunch, even with a correction in the morning, so some how having a little something accompanied by matching insulin seems to do the trick, but yes, there are sometimes when I would rather not have breakfast......

I might try the muesli and yogurt option as I am up at 6.30 and out the door for 7.05 and still need to get washed and dressed......


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## Robster65 (Feb 7, 2011)

Just for reference...

Tesco unsweetened wholegrain muesli (in a blue bag) with bits of twigs and field mice still in it (other brands are available).

Plus low fat plain yoghurt.

I am a pig, so I have 90g muesli + 150g yoghurt (weighed) which I then mash up to a nice sticky mess and eat like a small child with a bowl of chocolate pudding. I inject about 10 units of humalog for this carb-combo.

I did think it could be livened up with a tiny bit of honey in the yoghurt but don't say I said so. 

Rob


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## FM001 (Feb 7, 2011)

Robster65 said:


> Just for reference...
> 
> Tesco unsweetened wholegrain muesli (in a blue bag) with bits of twigs and field mice still in it (other brands are available).





Twigs and field mice, I wonder how many carbs are in those.  Your post reminds me of when I was a child and my mother would buy a great big bag of weetaflakes for us all, tasted like cardboard and needed the same quantity of sugar in the bowl to hide the taste.


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## shiv (Feb 7, 2011)

Rob, that's the exact brand I bought (looking forward to the field mice - crunchy ) That and their greek yoghurt - I wanted to buy full fat greek yoghurt and it was really hard to find, everything is 0% and low fat and reduced fat etc! Found some in the end though! I also got some muller light yoghurts in fruity flavours.


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## caffeine_demon (Feb 8, 2011)

toby said:


> Twigs and field mice, I wonder how many carbs are in those.  Your post reminds me of when I was a child and my mother would buy a great big bag of weetaflakes for us all, tasted like cardboard and needed the same quantity of sugar in the bowl to hide the taste.



ahh weetaflakes - that's one I haven't seen for awhile!, used to quite like those!


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## Alan S (Feb 8, 2011)

HelenM said:


> Continuous monitoring of the 'non-diabetic' control group in a recent multinational study revealed that nearly all of the subjects exceeded 7.8mmol/l at some point in the day.Some for considerable periods.  Ten percent of  the subjects reached levels over 11.1mmol/l . (which of course would be a diagnosis of diabetes if reached on a lab test on more than one occasion)


I think that latter statement needs to be read in context with other studies that show a similar proportion of the population are undiagnosed diabetics or pre-diabetics.

Take any large random sample of the population and at least 7% will be undiagnosed diabetics.

In my own experience testing friends and family over several years after Christmas dinners (our equivalent of Thanksgiving as a family feast here) the few who exceeded 8mmol/L (144) an hour later almost all were subsequently diagnosed. Only one was not, and I am about to argue with my son's doctor about that. All of the remainder tested under 6 mmol/L.

In my early years after diagnosis I tested my wife every single time she had a cut or graze. She has never tested over 5.6 (101) regardless of the time of day.


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## donnarob (Feb 8, 2011)

Hi Guys, 

Had 2oz of Porridge with made with water/milk this morning and had half a pear. 

First thing this morning reading was 7.0

1 hour after breakfast 12.5 !!
2 hours after breakfast 7.8 

I will test again in another hour and let you know the outcome. 

Donna


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