# Hi people, just joined



## CollaredDove (Jan 6, 2020)

Great to find you all.  I have borderline diabetes, possibly secondary to haemochromatosis (iron overload where iron gets dumped in the pancreas among other places).  Sometimes called bronze diabetes due to involvement of the liver.
If anyone has this I'd love to hear from them as Im pretty shocked at how rapidly this has happened.  HbA1c in April 38, September 44 and December 48 so it's happened very quickly and my consultant says is likely to be Type 1.
Hope everyone is as well as possible, best wishes, jean


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## CathyB (Jan 6, 2020)

Hi and welcome to the forum, I am a regular type 2 so cant comment on your situation but just wanted to say welcome


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## DebbieC (Jan 6, 2020)

Hi welcome , mum to T2 lad , you’ll find lots of help on here x


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## rebrascora (Jan 6, 2020)

Hi and welcome from me too.
I am Type 1 (diagnosed Diabetic Feb last year and Type 1 testing confirmed in July) but not with the same cause. My HbA1c was 112 at diagnosis so I would say that you probably have quite a bit of wriggle room at this stage... if that makes you feel a bit less worried. 

If you have not yet been started on insulin you could try a low carbohydrate diet and see if that slows it's development.
It means cutting out sugar and cakes and biscuits and sweets and reducing your consumption of bread, pasta, rice, potatoes, couscous and breakfast cereals possibly including porridge in that list too. That may seem like it doesn't leave much else to eat but it can be an enjoyable way to eat once you get your head around what to buy and how to cook it, especially if you increase your dietary fat.... something which we have been conditioned to believe is bad for us for almost all of our lives but may in fact be better that the high carb diet that we have become used to. 

Anyway, if you want to know more about low carb eating there are plenty of us here to offer you tips on how to get started. Even though I am now on insulin and could theoretically eat whatever I want, I still prefer to eat low carb and use the minimum insulin to cover it


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## CollaredDove (Jan 6, 2020)

CathyB said:


> Hi and welcome to the forum, I am a regular type 2 so cant comment on your situation but just wanted to say welcome


Many thanks Cathy - guess I should fill in my profile now Im here. Thanks for the welcome!


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## CollaredDove (Jan 6, 2020)

DebbieC said:


> Hi welcome , mum to T2 lad , you’ll find lots of help on here x


Thanks so much Debbie, pleased to be here!


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## CollaredDove (Jan 6, 2020)

DebbieC said:


> Hi welcome , mum to T2 lad , you’ll find lots of help on here x





CathyB said:


> Hi and welcome to the forum, I am a regular type 2 so cant comment on your situation but just wanted to say welcome


Thanks for the welcome Cathy


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## CollaredDove (Jan 6, 2020)

So sorry everyone - lovely welcomes, much appreciated but my replies have got muddled.  Im used to another forum (Health Unlocked/British Lung Foundation) which is very different in layout. I'll have another go on here tomorrow.  Bit more intro - Im 73, have stage 3 copd, barretts oesophagus, haemochromatosis (genetic, required 2 parents with same mutated gene) for which I have to have blood taken every so often to get rid of the excess iron, bit of osteoporosis and a few other LTCs but health not too bad considering. Sleep well x


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## Neens (Jan 6, 2020)

Hello and welcome, sorry that the diagnosis and onset symptoms/levels happened so quickly. I was recently told I am Type 2. There are lots of people here who can help.


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## rebrascora (Jan 6, 2020)

Actually there are believed to be many sub groups of the various types of Diabetes (Type 1, Type 1.5 (LADA), Type 2, Type 3c and MODY) and insulin* may* be required to treat patients with of all those types I believe.

My breakfast oats were the last thing I gave up, carbs wise, before I started to see my BG readings come down into single figures. Part of the problem with them is that they are slow release so whilst they don't spike your BG quite as sharply as sugar or highly processed carbs do, they keep your BG high for many hours.. as many as 8-10 hours in my case, so any carbs I ate after breakfast caused a further spike of my BG which piggy backed onto the oats spike and resulted in my BG getting progressively higher. Low GI granary bread and wholemeal pasta had the same effect. I very rarely eat bread or pasta anymore, maybe only once a month if that and just a very small amount of oats in the Eat Natural Low Sugar Granola that I have for breakfast with berries yoghurt and seeds, but I have insulin to offset that now.... I spent the first 6 weeks of diagnosis on a very strict diet and Type 2 oral meds before they realised that I needed insulin. By that time I had overcome my sugar addiction and was converted to low carb eating and it meant that there was less chance of hypoing if I needed to use less insulin, so I stuck with it.

Sorry to hear you have so many other health issues. Adding diabetes to the mix is a bit of a kick in the teeth, but you will soon get the hang of it and we are here to support you in any way we can.


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## CollaredDove (Jan 7, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> Hi and welcome from me too.
> I am Type 1 (diagnosed Diabetic Feb last year and Type 1 testing confirmed in July) but not with the same cause. My HbA1c was 112 at diagnosis so I would say that you probably have quite a bit of wriggle room at this stage... if that makes you feel a bit less worried.
> 
> If you have not yet been started on insulin you could try a low carbohydrate diet and see if that slows it's development.
> ...



Thanks for your reply Barbara.  Yes I gather my levels arent high relatively speaking but its the speed they've got where they are that alarmed me. Now it makes sense as Ive read that T1 can come on quickly, whereas from prediabetes to diabetes Ive read it can take up to 10 years.  Im sure you all know all this but Im trying to get my head round it.
Ive been doing low carbs for the last three months, and only unprocessed whole foods, but my levels still went up.  Diabetes secondary to haemochromatosis is usually T1 as the iron stored in the pancreas stops it producing insulin properly.  So being borderline at the minute, I have the insulin treatment to come.
It must have been very scary to get your diagnosis.  How do you find it using insulin?  I cant somehow imagine it but I guess it must become familiar after a while. I hope you're in good health now, that it's well controlled and you have good healthcare people.  Best wishes jean


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## CollaredDove (Jan 7, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> Actually there are believed to be many sub groups of the various types of Diabetes (Type 1, Type 1.5 (LADA), Type 2, Type 3c and MODY) and insulin* may* be required to treat patients with of all those types I believe.
> 
> My breakfast oats were the last thing I gave up, carbs wise, before I started to see my BG readings come down into single figures. Part of the problem with them is that they are slow release so whilst they don't spike your BG quite as sharply as sugar or highly processed carbs do, they keep your BG high for many hours.. as many as 8-10 hours in my case, so any carbs I ate after breakfast caused a further spike of my BG which piggy backed onto the oats spike and resulted in my BG getting progressively higher. Low GI granary bread and wholemeal pasta had the same effect. I very rarely eat bread or pasta anymore, maybe only once a month if that and just a very small amount of oats in the Eat Natural Low Sugar Granola that I have for breakfast with berries yoghurt and seeds, but I have insulin to offset that now.... I spent the first 6 weeks of diagnosis on a very strict diet and Type 2 oral meds before they realised that I needed insulin. By that time I had overcome my sugar addiction and was converted to low carb eating and it meant that there was less chance of hypoing if I needed to use less insulin, so I stuck with it.
> 
> Sorry to hear you have so many other health issues. Adding diabetes to the mix is a bit of a kick in the teeth, but you will soon get the hang of it and we are here to support you in any way we can.



That's lovely, thanks so much!


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## CollaredDove (Jan 7, 2020)

Neens said:


> Hello and welcome, sorry that the diagnosis and onset symptoms/levels happened so quickly. I was recently told I am Type 2. There are lots of people here who can help.


Thank you!


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## SB2015 (Jan 7, 2020)

Welcome to the forum @CollaredDove 
Sorry to hear about your diagnosis along with the many other health conditions.

As @rebrascora has said it is useful to focus on the carbohydrates that you eat, since these all get converted to glucose.  Simply working out how many carbs you are eating at each meal, can then help you to start to reduce them.  This can be done by simply swapping things.  Like Rebrascora I started with breakfast.  I used to eat porridge, which spiked me heavily and I was eating 60 g of carbs.  I now make my own cereal using quinoa flakes instead of oats, and have reduced the carbs to 20g even though I am adding fruit and yogurt.  Now spike and less insulin needed now.  Other meals are not as easy as they vary so much.  At home we work to a target of carbs, which is flexible, and weigh our ingredients to get somewhere near the target.  For meals out, it is do the best I can.


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## CollaredDove (Jan 7, 2020)

SB2015 said:


> Welcome to the forum @CollaredDove
> Sorry to hear about your diagnosis along with the many other health conditions.
> 
> As @rebrascora has said it is useful to focus on the carbohydrates that you eat, since these all get converted to glucose.  Simply working out how many carbs you are eating at each meal, can then help you to start to reduce them.  This can be done by simply swapping things.  Like Rebrascora I started with breakfast.  I used to eat porridge, which spiked me heavily and I was eating 60 g of carbs.  I now make my own cereal using quinoa flakes instead of oats, and have reduced the carbs to 20g even though I am adding fruit and yogurt.  Now spike and less insulin needed now.  Other meals are not as easy as they vary so much.  At home we work to a target of carbs, which is flexible, and weigh our ingredients to get somewhere near the target.  For meals out, it is do the best I can.



Hello SB2015 - thank you, Im so appreciating the replies im getting.  To see that you can reduce the insulin you need by eating well is great to hear. I had thought that quinoa which I do occasionally have in place of porridge (always with jumbo oats for the fibre) is just as high on GI index as oats. I'll swap over to that now and see how that goes. I already have blueberries and half a standard sized banana plus Fage yoghurt, so quinoa wont be a huge tweak.
Im not sure I would do well with  calorie counting - at present I just make an estimate in my head, but if I have to then I will.  Generally I self manage my conditions pretty well - I take relatively few medications - and am much more healthy and functioning than would be expected for the stage of copd Im at.  So hoping I can do as well with insulin management - Im just getting used to the possiblity at present.  And it's all made easier by people here like yourself, so many thanks again 
p.s. Does 'pumping' mean doing weight training, or a form of insulin delivery? Excuse my ignorance!


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## grovesy (Jan 7, 2020)

Pumping means Insulin is given via an Insulin pump.


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## CollaredDove (Jan 7, 2020)

grovesy said:


> Pumping means Insulin is given via an Insulin pump.


Thanks grovesy


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## Martin9 (Jan 7, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> Hi and welcome from me too.
> I am Type 1 (diagnosed Diabetic Feb last year and Type 1 testing confirmed in July) but not with the same cause. My HbA1c was 112 at diagnosis so I would say that you probably have quite a bit of wriggle room at this stage... if that makes you feel a bit less worried.
> 
> If you have not yet been started on insulin you could try a low carbohydrate diet and see if that slows it's development.
> ...


Always love your responses @rebrascora ..!


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## CollaredDove (Jan 7, 2020)

Martin9 said:


> Always love your responses @rebrascora ..!


Very helpful and confidence building.


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## rebrascora (Jan 7, 2020)

Martin9 said:


> Always love your responses @rebrascora ..!


Thank you! I can only speak from my own limited experience and what I have gleaned from the wonderful members of this forum whose help has been invaluable to me, so any compliment has to be reflected on the forum as a whole, which is such a wonderful resource.


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## Martin9 (Jan 7, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> Thank you! I can only speak from my own limited experience and what I have gleaned from the wonderful members of this forum whose help has been invaluable to me, so any compliment has to be reflected on the forum as a whole, which is such a wonderful resource.


Your response is always, on point , with great advice ..thank you @rebrascora  x


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## CollaredDove (Jan 8, 2020)

CollaredDove said:


> Thanks for your reply Barbara.  Yes I gather my levels arent high relatively speaking but its the speed they've got where they are that alarmed me. Now it makes sense as Ive read that T1 can come on quickly, whereas from prediabetes to diabetes Ive read it can take up to 10 years.  Im sure you all know all this but Im trying to get my head round it.
> Ive been doing low carbs for the last three months, and only unprocessed whole foods, but my levels still went up.  Diabetes secondary to haemochromatosis is usually T1 as the iron stored in the pancreas stops it producing insulin properly.  So being borderline at the minute, I have the insulin treatment to come.
> It must have been very scary to get your diagnosis.  How do you find it using insulin?  I cant somehow imagine it but I guess it must become familiar after a while. I hope you're in good health now, that it's well controlled and you have good healthcare people.  Best wishes jean



Good morning.  Just making my breakfast and realised I forgot to mention that my porridge is jumbo oats, not rolled oats.  They register on the GI at 53, same a quinoa I think. I understand that fibre is important for diabetes diet, a D nurse told a friend that, but not sure whether this means soluble or non-soluble.


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## rebrascora (Jan 8, 2020)

Actually I was sure you had mentioned jumbo oats but can't seem to find it now. The concept of GI is kind of an average rate of release of energy from particular foods but an individual's digestive response can vary quite significantly from that average rather than it being a set thing with each food and my system breaks down both high and low GI pretty efficiently and some other members here find the same, ie that any carbs spike them badly. The low GI just keeps releasing glucose over a much longer period leading to a significantly raised BG reading over a much longer time scale ie 8-10 hours in my case which I consider worse that a short high spike over 2-3 hours which is easier to match with insulin (obviously that makes a difference to my management) but I would still prefer to get my fibre and carbs from say an apple and have a short spike than 8-10 hours of being high from eating grains. This is where testing comes in because we all have a different gut biome and it will digest things differently. So whilst oats might spike one person badly but quinoa not, it might work the other way around for someone else or your system may not tolerate either without a mountainous BG spike or you may get away with eating both.

Fibre is really important, particularly if you eat low carb as a lot of our dietary fibre previously came from whole grains and fruit.... certainly mine did.... and I had a period of 2-3 months of constipation (sorry TMI ) until my system got used to it's new diet and others have found the same. My fibre now comes mostly from seeds and nuts and veggies and a little fruit.


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## CollaredDove (Jan 8, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> Actually I was sure you had mentioned jumbo oats but can't seem to find it now. The concept of GI is kind of an average rate of release of energy from particular foods but an individual's digestive response can vary quite significantly from that average rather than it being a set thing with each food and my system breaks down both high and low GI pretty efficiently and some other members here find the same, ie that any carbs spike them badly. The low GI just keeps releasing glucose over a much longer period leading to a significantly raised BG reading over a much longer time scale ie 8-10 hours in my case which I consider worse that a short high spike over 2-3 hours which is easier to match with insulin (obviously that makes a difference to my management) but I would still prefer to get my fibre and carbs from say an apple and have a short spike than 8-10 hours of being high from eating grains. This is where testing comes in because we all have a different gut biome and it will digest things differently. So whilst oats might spike one person badly but quinoa not, it might work the other way around for someone else or your system may not tolerate either without a mountainous BG spike or you may get away with eating both.
> 
> Fibre is really important, particularly if you eat low carb as a lot of our dietary fibre previously came from whole grains and fruit.... certainly mine did.... and I had a period of 2-3 months of constipation (sorry TMI ) until my system got used to it's new diet and others have found the same. My fibre now comes mostly from seeds and nuts and veggies and a little fruit.



That's really interesting, and interesting that others here have the same experience - I didnt know about personal variations though it makes perfect sense in view of other stuff I know - and we are all different.  I eat a lot of nuts and seeds already.  My problem is keeping enough weight ON, not the other way round. My BMI is 21 and people with copd are encouraged to keep on the upper end of the BMI range if possible as when we're ill we tend to lose a lot of weight.  So with what I eat at present - pretty low carbs, fair amount of olive oil, small amount of whole grains, apple, half an unripe banana, cheese - it's hard to keep level, let alone put weight on.  I had two hospitalisations for double pneumonia in 2018 and lost half a stone each time. Now Ive lost the same amount since cutting out some carbs which isnt good.
Can I ask how you test for individual foods?  Do you do that at home?  I want to ask my doctor about home testing kits which I know little about.  Ive read some time ago that it's good to eat some protein along with carbs to avoid a big spike.  But then again, I have a dear friend with T2, and in order to eat a dessert, he has a glucose sweet first.  
My GP referred me to a diabetes group but that's been declined.


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## SB2015 (Jan 8, 2020)

Hi @CollaredDove

I have absolutely no idea st all about calories, as it is the carbohydrates that I need to know to calculate my insulin dose for each meal.  My cereal made with quinoa is mixed with loads of nuts, flaxseed, desiccated coconut and coconut oil.  As with calories I do not worry about the GI.  All I concern myself with is carbohydrates, as they are the thing that changes to glucose once inside.  The drop from 60g to 20g of carbs really helped me.

I also found that I needed to avoid bananas.  They taste very yummy and that is because they are so full of sugar. I now stick to berries, which are so much lower in carbs.  If you are reducing carbs, and you are trying to increase your weight, you will need to add in some other non carb foods.  Perhaps that is where a knowledge of calories comes in which I cannot help yo with.

You will find your own way through.


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## CollaredDove (Jan 8, 2020)

SB2015 said:


> Hi @CollaredDove
> 
> I have absolutely no idea st all about calories, as it is the carbohydrates that I need to know to calculate my insulin dose for each meal.  My cereal made with quinoa is mixed with loads of nuts, flaxseed, desiccated coconut and coconut oil.  As with calories I do not worry about the GI.  All I concern myself with is carbohydrates, as they are the thing that changes to glucose once inside.  The drop from 60g to 20g of carbs really helped me.
> 
> ...



I hope so - thank you SB2015.  i feel my knowledge is very partial at the moment so its great to have people so much more experienced


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## rebrascora (Jan 8, 2020)

Hi again.

If you need to put a little weight on, then oils and fats are highest in calories and taste really good. There are lots of ways to incorporate them into your diet. For instance, have your coffee with cream instead of milk. Less carbs than milk, more calories and tastes heavenly. Veggies pretty much all taste better the more butter/cheese/cream or oil you add, so don't stint on it if you don't need to lose weight. Fatty meat like bacon and belly pork and chicken thighs. Chicken or steak in cream sauces etc. Cream with your banana... the cream will slow down the digestion of the sugars in the banana. They are not the best choice of fruit but an under ripe one perhaps halved and eaten over 2 days with cream and chopped nuts and seeds should be OK. I buy 75% cocoa chocolate from Lidl (The salted caramel and raspberry ones are both really nice) I have half a square with a spoonful of peanut butter occasionally for a treat. It makes the chocolate go further and adds calories. I eat chunks of cheese as a snack and I am going to have to cut back on that as I am starting to put weight on after indulging that more than anything over the festive season, when there has been such a lovely selection to get through. I don't count calories just carbs and my BMI is in the normal range and has been since I lost a stone and a half at diagnosis in Feb last year.

As regards self testing, it is something that the medical profession sadly do not encourage, but most members of this forum find it hugely beneficial. Blood Glucose Monitors are relatively cheap to buy at approx. £15 but it is the on going cost of purchasing test strips for them which can tot up the financial burden. For that reason the SD Codefree Blood Glucose Monitor is most often recommended on this forum because it has the cheapest test strips at £8 for a pot of 50 strips as oppose to some other meters which are £15-20+ for their pots of 50 test strips. It can be purchased from Amazon. Basically we test before eating and then 2 hours after eating a meal. If you get a rise in Blood Glucose reading of more than 3 mmols.... say you were 6.3mmols before you ate the meal and 2 hours later, your reading was 10.5mmols, then there were too many carbs in the meal and you need to reduce them or perhaps rule out that particular carbohydrate from your diet, at least for the time being, like I have with bread and pasta and rice. But if you start the meal on a reading of 6.3 and 2hours later your BG is just 7.1, then that was a good result and your body tolerated that meal well, so no changes necessary. Your BG can change quite significantly throughout the day (and night) which is why you need to test before eating and then 2 hours after so that the main cause of difference will be down to the food you ate.

I hope the above helps to clarify things a little, but if you don't understand or are not sure about anything please just ask.


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## CollaredDove (Jan 8, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> Hi again.
> 
> If you need to put a little weight on, then oils and fats are highest in calories and taste really good. There are lots of ways to incorporate them into your diet. For instance, have your coffee with cream instead of milk. Less carbs than milk, more calories and tastes heavenly. Veggies pretty much all taste better the more butter/cheese/cream or oil you add, so don't stint on it if you don't need to lose weight. Fatty meat like bacon and belly pork and chicken thighs. Chicken or steak in cream sauces etc. Cream with your banana... the cream will slow down the digestion of the sugars in the banana. They are not the best choice of fruit but an under ripe one perhaps halved and eaten over 2 days with cream and chopped nuts and seeds should be OK. I buy 75% cocoa chocolate from Lidl (The salted caramel and raspberry ones are both really nice) I have half a square with a spoonful of peanut butter occasionally for a treat. It makes the chocolate go further and adds calories. I eat chunks of cheese as a snack and I am going to have to cut back on that as I am starting to put weight on after indulging that more than anything over the festive season, when there has been such a lovely selection to get through. I don't count calories just carbs and my BMI is in the normal range and has been since I lost a stone and a half at diagnosis in Feb last year.
> 
> ...



Wow, you really DO give great info.  My cholesterol is high but good ratio but I worry it might go too high.  I have no intention of using statins.  But I used to eat more cheese than now and my ratio was still good, so this advice will be good for me.  Thanks so much, extremely useful - I'll study it further in the morning when Im more alert.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Jan 9, 2020)

Welcome to the forum @CollaredDove 

Hope you get some clarity on your diagnosis soon so that you can begin to put plans in place for how to manage your diabetes going forward. As with most things in life there are lots and lots of different possible approaches you can take to diabetes management, so it’s a matter of working out which one strategies suit your body, your BG, your metabolism and your tastebuds


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## CollaredDove (Jan 9, 2020)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Welcome to the forum @CollaredDove
> 
> Hope you get some clarity on your diagnosis soon so that you can begin to put plans in place for how to manage your diabetes going forward. As with most things in life there are lots and lots of different possible approaches you can take to diabetes management, so it’s a matter of working out which one strategies suit your body, your BG, your metabolism and your tastebuds



Thanks so much!  I'll take a look at your blog everydayupsanddowns.


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## rebrascora (Jan 9, 2020)

Some people find their cholesterol goes down, despite eating more fat. Mine is pretty stable at  5.2 which is higher than the HCPs would like, but like you, my ratio is good, so they are not particularly concerned and I can tell you I must be eating at least 3-4 times as much cheese as I did pre diagnosis, plus a pot of cream a week, which was something I never bought or used before and much more olive oil..... I make batches of ratatouille and probably use half a cup of olive oil where normally I would have used a tablespoon and it tastes so much better for it. Aubergines and mushrooms go so well with olive oil or lamb fat.....and they are both wonderful low carb veggies.


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## Ditto (Jan 9, 2020)

Hello and welcome to the forum.


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## CollaredDove (Jan 9, 2020)

Ditto said:


> Hello and welcome to the forum.


Hi Ditto, thanks for the welcome


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## CollaredDove (Jan 9, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> Some people find their cholesterol goes down, despite eating more fat. Mine is pretty stable at  5.2 which is higher than the HCPs would like, but like you, my ratio is good, so they are not particularly concerned and I can tell you I must be eating at least 3-4 times as much cheese as I did pre diagnosis, plus a pot of cream a week, which was something I never bought or used before and much more olive oil..... I make batches of ratatouille and probably use half a cup of olive oil where normally I would have used a tablespoon and it tastes so much better for it. Aubergines and mushrooms go so well with olive oil or lamb fat.....and they are both wonderful low carb veggies.



Luckily I love fatty food - especially olive oil, always had a lot but since September's reading Ive had loads more. Ive started having more cheese too. Your ratatouille sounds fab and grated cheese on that would be ace. I can imagine eating the best I can at home - do already and have got rid of most carbs except root veg, small amount of jumbo oats and a little brown basmati rice.  But I cant imagine how I'll be able to eat out with friends.  I cant eat much red meat as the iron gets absorbed and dumped round the body including pancreas, but poultry is ok and I eat lots of fish. 
I read you have to have two consecutive readings of 48 to be dxd with diabetes so I'll see what the next one says. Im reading that very long thread advising newbies how to go about managing the condition.
Such a lot to get my head round - thanks for your continued support Barbara, jean


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## CollaredDove (Jan 9, 2020)

CollaredDove said:


> Luckily I love fatty food - especially olive oil, always had a lot but since September's reading Ive had loads more. Ive started having more cheese too. Your ratatouille sounds fab and grated cheese on that would be ace. I can imagine eating the best I can at home - do already and have got rid of most carbs except root veg, small amount of jumbo oats and a little brown basmati rice.  But I cant imagine how I'll be able to eat out with friends.  I cant eat much red meat as the iron gets absorbed and dumped round the body including pancreas, but poultry is ok and I eat lots of fish.
> I read you have to have two consecutive readings of 48 to be dxd with diabetes so I'll see what the next one says. Im reading that very long thread advising newbies how to go about managing the condition.
> Such a lot to get my head round - thanks for your continued support Barbara, jean


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## rebrascora (Jan 9, 2020)

Sounds like you have it pretty much figured out. Eating out is difficult. I rarely do so it is less of a problem and then being type 1 I have insulin to inject to cover it but I do my best to make the lowest carb choices. Low carb eating is becoming more mainstream, so hopefully chefs will become more interested in offering options for us, but it is often a question of asking for chips/potatoes to be replaced with a salad or extra veg or just leaving the majority of the carbs served up. I hate waste so I bring home the leftovers for my chickens and they give me nice low carb eggs!


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## CollaredDove (Jan 9, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> Sounds like you have it pretty much figured out. Eating out is difficult. I rarely do so it is less of a problem and then being type 1 I have insulin to inject to cover it but I do my best to make the lowest carb choices. Low carb eating is becoming more mainstream, so hopefully chefs will become more interested in offering options for us, but it is often a question of asking for chips/potatoes to be replaced with a salad or extra veg or just leaving the majority of the carbs served up. I hate waste so I bring home the leftovers for my chickens and they give me nice low carb eggs!



CHICKENS!!  I love them, so funny when they are waddling up to you for their feed.  We get very fresh organic eggs from our farmers market, I have one a day.
Since Ive had these readings I dont feel Ive got stuff figured out, but i have been dealing with my food ("Let food be thy medicine" etc) for a long time - used to be macrobiotic in my twenties. I find it quite easy to adapt but this feels more challenging and the fact that it seems to vary from person to person means Ive got work to do.  I loathe waste too.


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## rebrascora (Jan 9, 2020)

Getting a BG meter so that you can see your body's response on a meal by meal basis really helps to give you a better insight and thereby better control in managing your individual diabetes.
Yes the wonderful thing about chickens is that they all have their own little quirks and personalities just like any other pet but better because they can provide you with breakfast. Don't feel the need to ration yourself to just one egg a day. They are full of goodness, especially free range ones and low carb so an ideal food for us diabetics. If I have time I really like a mushroom, onion and cheese omelette for breakfast with a side salad and coleslaw or avocado. Almost carb free meal and really tasty and filling.


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## CollaredDove (Jan 9, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> Hi again.
> 
> If you need to put a little weight on, then oils and fats are highest in calories and taste really good. There are lots of ways to incorporate them into your diet. For instance, have your coffee with cream instead of milk. Less carbs than milk, more calories and tastes heavenly. Veggies pretty much all taste better the more butter/cheese/cream or oil you add, so don't stint on it if you don't need to lose weight. Fatty meat like bacon and belly pork and chicken thighs. Chicken or steak in cream sauces etc. Cream with your banana... the cream will slow down the digestion of the sugars in the banana. They are not the best choice of fruit but an under ripe one perhaps halved and eaten over 2 days with cream and chopped nuts and seeds should be OK. I buy 75% cocoa chocolate from Lidl (The salted caramel and raspberry ones are both really nice) I have half a square with a spoonful of peanut butter occasionally for a treat. It makes the chocolate go further and adds calories. I eat chunks of cheese as a snack and I am going to have to cut back on that as I am starting to put weight on after indulging that more than anything over the festive season, when there has been such a lovely selection to get through. I don't count calories just carbs and my BMI is in the normal range and has been since I lost a stone and a half at diagnosis in Feb last year.
> 
> ...



Can I ask you Barbara, during the time your reading was first up at 112 did you feel unwell?  And if so what kind of symptoms if you dont mind saying?  I ask because, and I know Im much lower than that at 48, but my consultant says if I get another reading of 48 I will have to go on insulin.  Diabetes caused by haemochromatosis damage to the pancreas is normally T1 so that makes sense.  But when I went to see my GP after the last reading, she was pretty adamant that I dont have T1.  I feel pretty well, actually apart from difficulty walking any distance, I feel the best Ive felt for two years.  Of course the next reading in two months may have shot up further.  Ive no idea what symptoms I would be likely to experience.
Im going to get the BG monitor you mention - thanks for the tip.


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## rebrascora (Jan 9, 2020)

My symptoms hit suddenly. I had been out for a meal with my sister and some friends and as I was leaving the pub I felt thirsty. I decided to get a glass of water when I got home but by then the first glass didn't even take the edge off the thirst. I downed a second glass and was still thirsty. I assumed the steak and ale pie I ate must have been salty even though it didn't seem so. All night I drank water due to a raging thirst and consequently needed the loo. By the next morning when it continued I realised something was amiss and started cutting back on my sugar intake suspecting diabetes but being naïve as most people are, I was still eating plenty of starchy carbs. I let it go for 2 weeks getting up 4-6 times a night to wee and drink water before I eventually went and got a blood test. My eyesight for reading was very variable and my distance was also a bit odd and I would get sparkles or flashes occasionally. Other than that I didn't feel that bad. Heart would pound pretty badly sometimes but I get anxiety attacks so didn't necessarily think to link it to what I had eaten. I was also washed out a lot of the time.
Even after diagnosis of diabetes I was initially assumed type 2 but after 6 weeks of gradually stricter and stricter diet steadily reducing carbs eventually down to under 50g a day and eating low fat, low salt and no alcohol until I felt like I was eating cardboard and the weight dropping off at a rate of 4lbs a week (also a symptom of the Type 1 diabetes although the diet accelerated it)  and oral Type 2 meds, my HbA1c had gone up and I was started on insulin.
With a reading of 48 I would imagine you will need very little, if any insulin, as your body must still be producing some and the less carbs you eat, the less strain is put on your struggling pancreas, so it might manage to trickle out a reduced amount of insulin for some time to come without needing extraneous insulin.
Most health care professionals are not aware that low carb eating is sustainable and they are horrified by the prospect of people eating more fat.... after all, they have been advising us to eat low fat for all of their careers and they know that diabetes puts you at increased risk of heart disease so from their perspective, eating less fat is even more important for diabetics...... because they have accepted the 50+ year old (now strongly believed to be flawed) research which indicated that dietary fat causes cardiovascular disease and the constant government advice to eat low fat as a result of that. There are some interesting presentations online by eminent medical professionals who have now reviewed the data on that initial research and many subsequent studies, many of which were cherry picked or biased to corroborate the low fat policy and believe the low fat advice may partly be the reason why we are now having such a diabetes epidemic.... because food tastes naff without fat, so the food industry adds sugar to improve the taste in it's absence. This is oversimplifying the situation but it is quite fascinating when you start to look into it. 

Anyway, as a result of comments on this forum mostly by @Drummer about increasing fat intake and doing that research myself to clarify things in my own mind, I was convinced and I am very happy with my low carb higher fat eating regime now and I don't feel deprived because I have plenty of lovely treats like cheese and olives available which are low carb even when people around me are eating chocolates and offering me them (I was a chocoholic) and there is no doubt that eating more fat keeps you fuller for longer.
I still need to inject insulin, both basal (long acting) insulin to cover the glucose produced by my liver and small amounts of quick acting bolus insulin to cover any carbs that I do eat, but by keeping those carbs to a minimum I can reduce the amount needed.


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## CollaredDove (Jan 13, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> My symptoms hit suddenly. I had been out for a meal with my sister and some friends and as I was leaving the pub I felt thirsty. I decided to get a glass of water when I got home but by then the first glass didn't even take the edge off the thirst. I downed a second glass and was still thirsty. I assumed the steak and ale pie I ate must have been salty even though it didn't seem so. All night I drank water due to a raging thirst and consequently needed the loo. By the next morning when it continued I realised something was amiss and started cutting back on my sugar intake suspecting diabetes but being naïve as most people are, I was still eating plenty of starchy carbs. I let it go for 2 weeks getting up 4-6 times a night to wee and drink water before I eventually went and got a blood test. My eyesight for reading was very variable and my distance was also a bit odd and I would get sparkles or flashes occasionally. Other than that I didn't feel that bad. Heart would pound pretty badly sometimes but I get anxiety attacks so didn't necessarily think to link it to what I had eaten. I was also washed out a lot of the time.
> Even after diagnosis of diabetes I was initially assumed type 2 but after 6 weeks of gradually stricter and stricter diet steadily reducing carbs eventually down to under 50g a day and eating low fat, low salt and no alcohol until I felt like I was eating cardboard and the weight dropping off at a rate of 4lbs a week (also a symptom of the Type 1 diabetes although the diet accelerated it)  and oral Type 2 meds, my HbA1c had gone up and I was started on insulin.
> With a reading of 48 I would imagine you will need very little, if any insulin, as your body must still be producing some and the less carbs you eat, the less strain is put on your struggling pancreas, so it might manage to trickle out a reduced amount of insulin for some time to come without needing extraneous insulin.
> Most health care professionals are not aware that low carb eating is sustainable and they are horrified by the prospect of people eating more fat.... after all, they have been advising us to eat low fat for all of their careers and they know that diabetes puts you at increased risk of heart disease so from their perspective, eating less fat is even more important for diabetics...... because they have accepted the 50+ year old (now strongly believed to be flawed) research which indicated that dietary fat causes cardiovascular disease and the constant government advice to eat low fat as a result of that. There are some interesting presentations online by eminent medical professionals who have now reviewed the data on that initial research and many subsequent studies, many of which were cherry picked or biased to corroborate the low fat policy and believe the low fat advice may partly be the reason why we are now having such a diabetes epidemic.... because food tastes naff without fat, so the food industry adds sugar to improve the taste in it's absence. This is oversimplifying the situation but it is quite fascinating when you start to look into it.
> ...



Apologies for not replying earlier - I was touched that you would go into such detail in answer to my question.  It's been a hectic weekend, not been online much but I just wanted to say I'll be back on here tomorrow.  In the meantime, very many thanks for your openness, it's proving very helpful for me.


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## rebrascora (Jan 13, 2020)

No worries. It is a very complex condition and we all know how overwhelming it is and time out is needed every now and then to allow some of the info to be digested before you are ready to learn more.
The reason I was so comprehensive in my response is that advising people to eat more fat is very controversial, especially if they are diabetic and I really wanted to give a bit of background on that as I know how I felt when it was first suggested.... it goes against everything we have been told by healthcare professionals and government advisors for pretty much all our lives and it takes a big leap of faith to contravene that.

My Dad ate fatty food (lamb chops, fatty meat/bacon, fried breakfast, butter inches thick on his bread etc) all his life and when he died (of asthma) aged 84 the paramedics made a comment about how strong his heart was, even when it wasn't getting oxygen, it just tried to keep going, so I had a bit of family history which sort of corroborated this new theory that dietary fat and cardiovascular disease may not be connected. 
Anyway, take your time and don't feel you need to rush back here and respond. We are here when you are ready..... as many experienced members here on the forum say, learning to manage diabetes is a marathon not a sprint.


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## CollaredDove (Jan 14, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> No worries. It is a very complex condition and we all know how overwhelming it is and time out is needed every now and then to allow some of the info to be digested before you are ready to learn more.
> The reason I was so comprehensive in my response is that advising people to eat more fat is very controversial, especially if they are diabetic and I really wanted to give a bit of background on that as I know how I felt when it was first suggested.... it goes against everything we have been told by healthcare professionals and government advisors for pretty much all our lives and it takes a big leap of faith to contravene that.
> 
> My Dad ate fatty food (lamb chops, fatty meat/bacon, fried breakfast, butter inches thick on his bread etc) all his life and when he died (of asthma) aged 84 the paramedics made a comment about how strong his heart was, even when it wasn't getting oxygen, it just tried to keep going, so I had a bit of family history which sort of corroborated this new theory that dietary fat and cardiovascular disease may not be connected.
> Anyway, take your time and don't feel you need to rush back here and respond. We are here when you are ready..... as many experienced members here on the forum say, learning to manage diabetes is a marathon not a sprint.



G'Afternoon!
I have to admit Im daunted by this marathon - Im used to pacing myself in respect of copd, both physically and with research.  Im now one of the people on the British Lung Foundation forum who gives advice to newbies (though Im less on that forum now).  I never thought I would have to take in a load of management stuff again but if it turns out to be Type 1 this is far harder than anything Ive dealt with so far and big respect to all of you who are living with it.
I am aware of the fat issue - it's been around in alternative health newsletters I get from the U.S. for some time.  I dont stint on olive oil and eat a little butter.  Meat is a no-no due to the haemochromatosis depositing iron in the pancreas but I eat a load of fish.  Your Dad did brilliantly, a good example of the theory that eating fat isnt the cause of CVD.  But my haemochromatosis experience makes me aware of how different we all are - the copd too as I was a light smoker and gave up 15 years before I was diagnosed.
Can I ask - I think Im gathering that the amount of carbs eaten at any point of the day is as important, or more even, than the total eaten over the whole day.  Is that right? Im going to get the BG monitor you mention and start noting my levels throughout the day.


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## CollaredDove (Jan 14, 2020)

CollaredDove said:


> G'Afternoon!
> I have to admit Im daunted by this marathon - Im used to pacing myself in respect of copd, both physically and with research.  Im now one of the people on the British Lung Foundation forum who gives advice to newbies rather than needing it (though Im less on that forum now).  I never thought I would have to take in a further load of management stuff again but if it turns out to be Type 1 this is far harder than anything Ive dealt with so far and big respect to all of you who are living with it.
> I am aware of the fat issue - it's been around in alternative health newsletters I get from the U.S. for some time.  I dont stint on olive oil and eat a little butter.  Meat is a no-no due to the haemochromatosis depositing iron in the pancreas but I eat a load of fish.  Your Dad did brilliantly, a good example of the theory that eating fat isnt the cause of CVD.  But my haemochromatosis experience makes me aware of how different we all are - the copd too as I was a light smoker and gave up 15 years before I was diagnosed.
> Can I ask - I think Im gathering that the amount of carbs eaten at any point of the day is as important, or more even, than the total eaten over the whole day.  Is that right? Im going to get the BG monitor you mention and start noting my levels throughout the day.



I just phoned the helpline and found out various useful stuff including further blood tests, and that what my condition is likely to be is classed as Type 3c. Another layer of information Im digesting now along with a late lunch!  
I did have a further thought about your saying that people having their own blood glucose monitors and doing their own tests being discouraged.  It's similar with what happens in copd management.  Copd and oxygen nurses often discourage us from buying a pulse oximeter (these are worn on the finger and show how much oxygen there is in the blood).  They say we will get obsessed.  But on more than one occasion having one has virtually saved my life as it's shown me when Im getting seriously ill with oxygen plummeting.  So a useful bit of kit but similar discouragement from many nurses (not all).
Thanks as usual for your continuing support and I hope you're having a good day


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