# Are you striking wednesday ?



## Jennywren (Nov 28, 2011)

Im on strike as work in a school , although a lot of the schools around here havent made up their minds up ,downside is hubby has had his pre assessment for op cancelled .


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## MCH (Nov 28, 2011)

In short, yes.


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## Newtothis (Nov 28, 2011)

Yes - work for a Local Authority and member of Unison.


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## Nicky1970 (Nov 28, 2011)

No, as I'm self-employed. But all the best to everyone that is!

Then raise the scarlet standard high.
Within its shade we'll live and die,
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,
We'll keep the red flag flying here.


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## Caroline (Nov 29, 2011)

I'm working. Little feller is home with big boy and dad as the teachers are on strike. big boy planned his days so he didn't have to work so all my boys are home. It will be a quiet day in my office as many people will be on strike.


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## AJLang (Nov 29, 2011)

I'm not on strike but not sure how many of my students will be in their 9am lecture as they will have other classes cancelled during the day


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## Ellie Jones (Nov 29, 2011)

No not on strike as I haven't got a Job..

But if I had a job no I wouldn't be on Strike...


I don't agree with 'Why' they are going on strike purely selfish reasons indeed...

The one's calling the Strike (the unions leaders) don't lose a days pay..

We all have to work longer, and nobody's pension is going to be what they thought it would be...  And there are some of us who can't afford a private pension at all..


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## Robster65 (Nov 29, 2011)

I don't know the ins and outs of it all but is it possible that the lower end workers are being made to compromise, while the big bosses are still getting their huge pensions and bonuses ?

If that's the case, I'd be pretty miffed I think.

Especially when you've planned ahead based on a paricular level of income and then the rug gets pulled.

ANyone care to exlain the reasons for the strike from the union perspective ?

There's always 2 sides and sometimes they don't get equal coverage.

Rob


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## Northerner (Nov 29, 2011)

I support the strike although I'm not in a position to be on strike. I think that it will be a clear illustration of how this government does not have a mandate and have consistently failed in every policy since they came to power. They talk about cutting the deficit, and that the cuts to pensions are part of this, but the deficit has actually increased more than it would have done under Labour's plans. Cutting pensions that people have signed up to whilst happily doing nothing to cut the tax loopholes enjoyed by the rich (and even proposing tax cuts for the very wealthy, like cutting the 50% tax for over ?100k pa earners) sounds to me like the whole 'belt-tightening' business is all one way.

Funny how the government have been trying to say what a terrible loss to the economy the strike day will be, costing ?500m, yet the extra day missed by practically EVERYONE for Will and Kate's wedding was promoted as a 'wonderful occasion'. 

Union leaders couldn't do this without the support of their members, so it's spurious to suggest that it is their 'fault' alone - people aren't sheep and can make up their own minds whether they feel they are being mistreated and ripped off.

Some of the rhetoric from ministers is appalling and confrontational - couldn't believe the vilification of teachers from Michael Gove yesterday


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## cherrypie (Nov 29, 2011)

This article gives all sides of the debate.

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/883129-public-sector-pensions-debate-a-lead-balloon-or-gold-plated

I receive a pension because I worked in the public sector.  It is not huge but keeps the wolf from the door.  You cannot manage on the Old Age Pension alone even allowing for benefits with council tax etc.

We have pensioners freezing in their own homes, cutting back on food and leading miserable lives because of lack of funds.  Seems to me that the Govt. are quite happy for this to be the norm for all old people who are not wealthy.  When the public sector workers who are on low incomes come to retirement age what will their quality of life be like?

I can hear the gallows being erected and we will not be eating cake because there is no bread around.


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## Caroline (Nov 29, 2011)

Ellie Jones said:


> No not on strike as I haven't got a Job..
> 
> But if I had a job no I wouldn't be on Strike...
> 
> ...




I don't hold with strikes and wont loose a days pay over a fight that might not be won. I always think working to rule is a better option as it can gum the works up and you still get paid.

For example where I work when collection items are taken from the shelves staff are supposed to carry it on a trolley. If the item is shelved above shoulder height, even if it is only just, staff are supposed to use ladders provided. So even if only a single paper back book above shoulder height is taken off the shelves and procedures are followed to the letter it will take longer. Staff are also supposed to work in twos in some places, so if you're working partner is off sick or on leave you will have to wait fr someone else to go with.


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## Robster65 (Nov 29, 2011)

As someone who always worked in the private sector, a decent pension was something that seemed like dream. I doubt many private sector workers will have anything like what is on offer.

However, as has been said, the higher level management and private sector high level bankers will still be running off with stupidly inflated sums that could go a fair way to reducing the defecit and also to make things a bit more even. It's a question of fairness. If the bottom and the middle are having to go without, then the top should at least match that, if not go a step further and reduce the gap. It's not communism or pie in the sky idealism, but a way of showing some humanity from those who have got fat while the country slid into the mire.

Rob


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## FM001 (Nov 29, 2011)

Northerner said:


> I support the strike although I'm not in a position to be on strike. I think that it will be a clear illustration of how this government does not have a mandate and have consistently failed in every policy since they came to power. They talk about cutting the deficit, and that the cuts to pensions are part of this, but the deficit has actually increased more than it would have done under Labour's plans. Cutting pensions that people have signed up to whilst happily doing nothing to cut the tax loopholes enjoyed by the rich (and even proposing tax cuts for the very wealthy, like cutting the 50% tax for over ?100k pa earners) sounds to me like the whole 'belt-tightening' business is all one way.
> 
> Funny how the government have been trying to say what a terrible loss to the economy the strike day will be, costing ?500m, yet the extra day missed by practically EVERYONE for Will and Kate's wedding was promoted as a 'wonderful occasion'.
> 
> ...




Couldn't have put it better myself  The PM was moaning that only 1 in 4 union members voted for the strike so they didn't have a clear majority - did that stop the tories getting into government

The culture of greed continues with bankers taking huge bonuses from taxpayer owned banks whilst the least well off in society continue to be persecuted under Osborne's austerity measures, good on the workers striking to protect their hard earned pensions and hope they go on to achieve their aims.


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## Northerner (Nov 29, 2011)

*Lawyers block GP pensions strike at eleventh hour*

Dozens of GPs who had been planning to strike as part of Wednesday's day of action on the Government's pension reforms have been forced to cancel planned industrial action at the last minute, after union lawyers warned it could be illegal.

The Medical Practitioners' Union has backtracked on its claims last week that its 100 GP members would be covered to strike alongside thousands of practice staff. A number of GPs in London had notified the MPU, which is part of the Unite union, of their intention to take industrial action on 30 November.
But while some GPs in east London still plan to shut their doors at certain times 'in solidarity with their staff', the MPU has now officially declared that its 100 GP members are ?not being called out' to join strikes, after advice from lawyers identified ?complications' with issuing ?intention to strike' notices to cover GPs.

http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/newsart...-hour?sp_rid=NjU3NzMyNzAyOQS2&sp_mid=37566510

(free registration required)


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## Monica (Nov 29, 2011)

My girls will be at home tomorrow, as their school is closed.
My OH is on strike too

Cameron said to take the children to work if necessary. Well, you try taking your children to a job that involves instructing 2 students how to drive a vehicle with 3 seats 

Also the government claim that the unions refuse to hold "last minute" talks. Well the government had 9 months to hold talks. They didn't have to wait until the "last minute"


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## Caroline (Nov 29, 2011)

Monica said:


> My girls will be at home tomorrow, as their school is closed.
> My OH is on strike too
> 
> Cameron said to take the children to work if necessary. Well, you try taking your children to a job that involves instructing 2 students how to drive a vehicle with 3 seats
> ...



I dread bringing my one into work, he'd get bored because I can't carry the ammount of stuff he'd need to keep him occupied from 7am till 3.30pm and it is a very long day for him. Hubby is an engineer and before he retired worked in a busy engineering work shop where there would be health and safety issues.


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## Ellie Jones (Nov 29, 2011)

I actually agree with Caroline..  Working to rule is a better way to go rather than the loss of money faced by going out on strike..  If the Union's actually had the welfare of their members best interest at heart then this is the route they would have taken.. 

This isn't about pensions at all it's the personal political agenda's of the Union Bosses...  Just like Scargil did to the miners back in the 80's he used and destroyed the miners and their communities..  Perhaps if he'd also had his pay packet and benefits stopped while he called his members out a totally different outcome would have happened!

As they have like the government no attention of tackling the real issues, the immoral pay and benefit packages, the rich ability to avoid to paying their fare share etc...  And like the Government for the exactly the same reasons it's not in their personal interest to do so..  As they would be stopping their own gravy train!

As the union bosses themselves also when it comes to pay and benefit packages are in league with all those we and they deem immoral and based on fat cat greed!

p,s

When you return to work on Thursday and you see your shop steward ask what they get paid to attend union meetings!  My ex-husband was not only a shop steward but the works conniver for the his company, as it was a very good little earner even without any strife being dealt with!


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## cherrypie (Nov 29, 2011)

I have a different view about the miner's strike.  This document is worth reading.

http://www.socialismtoday.org/81/miners.html
It is the lower paid of our society that are being penalised with the austerity measures and why should we accept that the rich are untouchable?  If someone on a lower pay scale within the public sector is to have a decent pension then it needs to be enough so that they don't just come just above the threshold for benefits in their old age.  An extra ?2 could be all that is needed to stop them getting help and so they will still be in poverty.

As for being a shop steward,  I was one within the NHS.  The only expenses that I claimed for were travelling ones, not a nice little earner.  I often used my meal breaks or days off to try and settle grievance procedures and hold meetings.  The members often made collections for people who had been treated  badly and were long time sick.  The Union always gave generously as well.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/TradeUnions/Tradeunionsintheworkplace/DG_10027556


I have been present in Courtroom hearings as a support for members that are represented by Barristers supplied by the Unions.  I got my travelling expenses, nothing else.  The Barristers don't do it for free, they have to be paid at their usual rates.

How you view the strike depends a lot on your knowledge of what is going on and your moral compass and political persuasion IMHO.


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## vince13 (Nov 29, 2011)

Ellie   My ex-husband was not only a shop steward but the works conniver for the his company said:
			
		

> ...........................................................................................................
> Can't help it !  I love the idea of a "works conniver" - perhaps "convener" ? but conniver is probably more correct in relation to unions !
> 
> My late husband was works convener for his department at Vauxhall Motors so I have no illusions about how some unions pull the wool over the eyes of their members.  He was once sent to Coventry by some of those higher up in the union because he (shock, horror) liked to take the opinions of his department workers before voting for action instead of imposing the union view on them. I only found out how strong he'd been in this respect many years after he'd died and I was so proud of him.


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## Robster65 (Nov 29, 2011)

Agreed. There are very few absolutes when it comes to politics and the social welfare of ordinary people.

Without unions we'd have very few rights and a hell of a lot of wrongs. It's bound to attract plenty of ambitious, greedy types but mostly they protect employees from the ambitions and greed of those who hold the purse strings.

Rob



cherrypie said:


> I have a different view about the miner's strike. This document is worth reading.
> 
> http://www.socialismtoday.org/81/miners.html
> It is the lower paid of our society that are being penalised with the austerity measures and why should we accept that the rich are untouchable? If someone on a lower pay scale within the public sector is to have a decent pension then it needs to be enough so that they don't just come just above the threshold for benefits in their old age. An extra ?2 could be all that is needed to stop them getting help and so they will still be in poverty.
> ...


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## vince13 (Nov 29, 2011)

Robster65 said:


> Agreed. There are very few absolutes when it comes to politics and the social welfare of ordinary people.
> Without unions we'd have very few rights and a hell of a lot of wrongs. It's bound to attract plenty of ambitious, greedy types but mostly they protect employees from the ambitions and greed of those who hold the purse strings.
> Rob



Agreed Rob - unions have done lots of good for the working man/woman but some did get above themselves back in bad old days of Maggie Thatcher.  However I was proud to go on the Miner's march up in London although I was warned by the directors of the building society for whom I worked at the time that it would not go down well on my record (we didn't have a union in the B/Society at that time).


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## trophywench (Nov 29, 2011)

I too fell about laughing when I noticed Ellie's typo - sorry Ellie, this really isn't a dig at you but I remember too well all the strikes at Longbridge 'Red Robbo' and all that jazz ... conniver would have been a far better word there too ....

Of course I have sympathy with the reasons for the strike.  Nobody likes to see their aspirations dashed.  But the fact remains that whatever pensions the affected employees get, has to be paid for out of Government revenue, because it isn't an invested scheme unlike us 'lucky' ???? people with private accupational pensions.  Our pensions took a nosedive quite some time ago and we've had to live with it since.

We pay tax on those pensions (my state pension is ?126 a fortnight so it's a damn good job I've got em, isn't it?) and that tax (and everybody else who is paying it) pays the pensions in payment.  If these workers 'got their way' then I - and everybody else who pays it including those workers themselves - would have to pay more tax to support it.  

Why the hell should I? - did they offer to subsidise my - and others' - private pensions when they took a nosedive because of World recession?  No - they sodding well didn't! 

Sheet happens.  Tough.  Get used to it.


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## cherrypie (Nov 29, 2011)

I have every sympathy for people with private pensions that have been cut.   The terms of pensions for public sector workers were in their contract at the start of their employment and they budgeted accordingly.  We are talking about ?50-?60 pounds per week for some of the lower paid.  Add that to an old age pension and you are not going to be rich.  It would be interesting to know what the retirement pension is for a Chief Executive of a Trust.

Osborne is now going to cut 710,000 public sector jobs as opposed to the 400,000  that was first proposed he has said today.  We will all being paying more taxes regardless of where we work, what pensions we receive as the unemployment and welfare for those people will have to be taken into account.  There are no jobs for them in the public sector.  Education, Hospitals etc will be privatised to accommodate some of them I suspect.  Repossessions will soar and poverty will rise.


I doubt very much that the fat cats will help us.  Can you imagine asking the bank manager if he could help with educating your children, looking after your sick relative or emptying your bin?

If nobody puts up a fight for their rights then we will definitely have a  Big Society.  Big fat cats will be in charge and we will be little more than serfs having to tow the line and do as we are told.  Looks like Robin Hood might have to make an appearance.


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## Nicky1970 (Nov 29, 2011)

Then there's this article from The Guardian, sent to me by a friend via Facebook.


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## vince13 (Nov 29, 2011)

Nicky1970 said:


> Then there's this article from The Guardian, sent to me by a friend via Facebook.



Can't get this link up - would one of the Mods please do the necessary magic so we can have a look ? pretty please


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## cherrypie (Nov 29, 2011)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentis...ce-workers-strike?fb=native&CMP=FBCNETTXT9038


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## Northerner (Nov 29, 2011)

vince13 said:


> Can't get this link up - would one of the Mods please do the necessary magic so we can have a look ? pretty please



It's working OK for me Faith, try this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentis...ce-workers-strike?fb=native&CMP=FBCNETTXT9038


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## FM001 (Nov 29, 2011)

Some great posts cherrypie


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## vince13 (Nov 29, 2011)

cherrypie said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentis...ce-workers-strike?fb=native&CMP=FBCNETTXT9038



Thank you Cherrypie, that puts it nicely in perspective for me.


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## GodivaGirl (Nov 29, 2011)

I've been self-employed all my working life, so I'm afraid I live in a bit of a bubble. I agree with the right to strike though. Good luck to them!


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## Ellie Jones (Nov 29, 2011)

I will agree with anybody's right to strike.. but it should also be a last resort and not for fulling somebodies else's personal agenda..

So can somebody explain to me what's the difference of cheif executive of trust earns them the title of greedy fat cats..  And a Union Leader it's money for a job well done..  Read this link http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...51/Scandal-of-union-chiefs-26m-pay-deals.html  as you can see that some of the union bosses who won't be losing a penny of these pay packages tomorrow!

And no the Civil servants pension entitlements isn't part of their employment Contract...  Your employment contract says you will be entitled to a pension that's it..  The pension details and entitlements are a totally separate contract...

But going back to the pay packages of your union bosses, you sort of start seeing why like the government they are avoiding tackling the real issues and problems curtailing the fat cat's greed and the top 1% of the earners in this country...   They be biting their own hands off..


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## Robster65 (Nov 29, 2011)

They're earning about the same salary as a head teacher. Which, given their responsibilities, doesn't seem to bad. The 'benefits' the Sun cites aren't quantified. They could be made up.

Some are getting salaries in the 50,000s and 60,000s. 

None of them are anywhere near the brackets of the top 1% or even top 10% I wouldn't think.

The 2.6m in the headline is all of them together but is meant to appear as if they're being paid that. None of them are. For the real top 1%, 2.6m would be an annual bonus.

Rob


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## hotchop (Nov 30, 2011)

I dont have very strong views on the pension strikes but what I do feel that is that private companies change the terms and conditions of employment often to suit the needs of the business and public sector staff should have to do the same..... change to the needs of the business model.

We are living longer than ever before and to ensure sustainability in the jobs market, if pension provisions need to change, then so be it.

I think ive read somwhere that if if the changes do not happen, there will be "more" jobs losses and whilst I am no expert, isnt it better to protect these jobs now rather than have another wave of heavy jobs cuts?

Where I live, the public sector is by far the biggest employers and in a lot of cases, whole families work there.. if they all lost their jobs because of affordability to provide the enhanced pension, they would be in deep pooooooo and many do not have income protection or mortgage protection because public sector is seen as a safe bet.

some quick fixes though.. bring their sickness policies into line with standard legislation, that would save a blooming fortune! 6 months at full pay and 6 months half pay.. no wonder public sector sickness is double the national level. I get 5 days per annum which is generous for the private sector!

My husband works for the public sector and the perks are amazing. I read his most recent pension statement and im amazed at the entitlements. He is not a very high earner either!


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## runner (Nov 30, 2011)

Couldn't agree with you more Cherrypie and Northerner.  I've spent some of my working life working for the local authority, but only have a tiny pension as a result, but hubby has put in 30 odd years and is now redundant, forced to take his pension early, so it is worth much less than it would have been at his state retirement age.  Can we please remember that public sector employees contribute to their pension scheme, and in many cases the schemes are NOT paid for by us via the government - the money is invested.  Many public sector employees have a lower comparable salary than the private sector and their pensions were one of the compensating factors.

As someone else pointed out - it's about what you have planned and budgeted for, a bit like the retirement age, and the rug, once again gets pulled from under your feet.  Everyone deserves a decent pension.

And yes, if i was still employed, I would be striking, and support those who are.


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## runner (Nov 30, 2011)

hotchop said:


> We are living longer than ever before and to ensure sustainability in the jobs market, if pension provisions need to change, then so be it.



Not sure this trend will continue with the rise in obesity etc.  The life expectancy for women living in the North of England has apparently only risen by 1 year, not the several more that they will now have to work.  In some of the more deprived areas, life expectancy is still very poor, particularly for men (I believe it's 40years in some areas of Glasgow?)  And, it's going to get worse....


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## cherrypie (Nov 30, 2011)

This explains the difference between private and public sector work pensions.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15925017

If we are going to have to work longer to get our pensions then what is also a worry is the physical demands of some jobs.  You might think you are healthy but will you be able to still have the stamina in your later years as a dustman, firefighter, paramedic, nurse et al.  Even office work can be a challenge if you are suffering from a bad back which is quite common as you get older.  Bad backs are explained as an occupational hazard in some jobs.

I am retired but my mind is active, I don't feel any different than 30 years ago but I know that there is no way if I went back to work that I could physically perform some of the tasks that I did then.  Some examples are the lifting involved in nursing, the restraint which has to sometimes be performed with psychiatric patients, the making of 20+ beds in a short space of time.  Getting up at 5.30 a.m. to do a long day which finished at 8.00 pm in the evening would be beyond me now.  I could probably do it but would need some time to recuperate.


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## Northerner (Nov 30, 2011)

I've worked in the private sector all my life. One thing that really hit home when I was diagnosed and in hospital for 8 days was the massive contrast between the work that the nurses, doctors, bed managers, orderlies, porters etc. all put in day in, day out. No-one I have ever worked with in the private sector (and my job involved working with people in hundreds of private sector companies) came close. I'm not saying they don't exist, but rather that there seems to be this misapprehension that public sector work is somehow 'cushier' than the private sector - there are hard-working people everywhere. 

It's an inescapable fact that the lowest-paid in society are being made to pay for the mistakes and greed of the highest earners, and now they are being squeezed beyond retirement.


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## ypauly (Nov 30, 2011)

Northerner said:


> I support the strike although I'm not in a position to be on strike.


You would (quite literally)  pull my arm off before getting me to cross an official picket line and I do understand why the public sector are so upset, I just can't find much sympathy quite simply because at a time when so many face losing thier jobs because the country can't afford to employ them it seems silly. I'm not sure that says what I am thinking but it's along the lines of 'if your boss is looking to cut jobs, showing him that he was able to carry on while you were outside is daft'.


Northerner said:


> I think that it will be a clear illustration of how this government does not have a mandate and have consistently failed in every policy since they came to power. They talk about cutting the deficit, and that the cuts to pensions are part of this, but the deficit has actually increased more than it would have done under Labour's plans.


 The whole pensions thing is being hijacked by people with other political motives, that's why there were no protests or strikes when Gordon Brown took over ?100 Billion out of the pension fund pot, there were no protests or strikes whe Gordon Brown announced pension changes would have to be made and put into practice the very process that has lead us to this position. People are just using it as an excuse to have a go at the goverment for other things, some maybe warranted but has little to do with why they are striking.


Northerner said:


> . Cutting pensions that people have signed up to whilst happily doing nothing to cut the tax loopholes enjoyed by the rich (and even proposing tax cuts for the very wealthy, like cutting the 50% tax for over ?100k pa earners) sounds to me like the whole 'belt-tightening' business is all one way.


 I dont know the actual figure as they have not yet been released but the 50% tax is costing us a fortune as the people that have to pay it are leaving in droves. Surely it would be better to get 40% of something than 50% of nothing.


Northerner said:


> Funny how the government have been trying to say what a terrible loss to the economy the strike day will be, costing ?500m, yet the extra day missed by practically EVERYONE for Will and Kate's wedding was promoted as a 'wonderful occasion'.


I agree It was silly to give everybody a day off at a time when economic growth carries so much importance.


Northerner said:


> Union leaders couldn't do this without the support of their members, so it's spurious to suggest that it is their 'fault' alone - people aren't sheep and can make up their own minds whether they feel they are being mistreated and ripped off.


 The leaders will sit very pretty though on nice big fat saleries and comfortable pensions paid for by the people they are encouraging to stand out in the cold losing money, why? maybe political asperations is one of them. I watch Brendon Barber the weekend saying that the strike would go ahead not matter what. When asked if the goverment agreed to his original demands (that have changed) would the strike still happen, he replied "yes" I can't help but think that all the public sector workers are being used as pawns in a very silly political game.


Northerner said:


> Some of the rhetoric from ministers is appalling and confrontational - couldn't believe the vilification of teachers from Michael Gove yesterday



Ah the only person in the current goverment who I would enjoy punching in the face, in fact I don't think I would ever get tired of pucnhing.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





I am not sure if it's his face or voice or the mighty cock up he made less than a week in office , maybe a little of all three. The only other person to have had that effect is peter mandelson but it shows a punchable face crosses party lines.


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## Copepod (Nov 30, 2011)

Had the odd experience this morning of cycling past a closed primary school with 2 people standing outside (staff, I assume) and 2 bins put out for a collection that probably won't happen today - on my way to getting a disabled friend out of bed. When her husband is away for work, she asks me or another younger woman to get her up and put her to bed, as she needs help with un/dressing, a hoist etc. For me, that's as real as nursing gets - and we both enjoy discussing science etc while doing the actions required. 

Obviously, no pension associated with this job, but I have contributed to my own stake holder pension, to bolster what I will get from pensions from about 5 years of NHS work (3.25 as a student nurse on old style apprenticeship training, plus 1 data job, plus several years on the bank, with no pension rights), plus a year in each of 2 university staff pensions. No pension associated with 4 years in the Territorial Army, either.


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## ypauly (Nov 30, 2011)

Copepod said:


> Had the odd experience this morning of cycling past a closed primary school with 2 people standing outside (staff, I assume) and 2 bins put out for a collection that probably won't happen today - on my way to getting a disabled friend out of bed. When her husband is away for work, she asks me or another younger woman to get her up and put her to bed, as she needs help with un/dressing, a hoist etc. For me, that's as real as nursing gets - and we both enjoy discussing science etc while doing the actions required.
> 
> Obviously, no pension associated with this job, but I have contributed to my own stake holder pension, to bolster what I will get from pensions from about 5 years of NHS work (3.25 as a student nurse on old style apprenticeship training, plus 1 data job, plus several years on the bank, with no pension rights), plus a year in each of 2 university staff pensions. No pension associated with 4 years in the Territorial Army, either.


Our bins were not emptied yesterday and it did make me wonder what day it was. They have been taken today so I can only assume the 'brummies' on strike don't have a calender.


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## Nicky1970 (Nov 30, 2011)

> Ah the only person in the current goverment who I would enjoy punching in the face, in fact I don't think I would ever get tired of pucnhing.
> 
> I am not sure if it's his face or voice or the mighty cock up he made less than a week in office , maybe a little of all three. The only other person to have had that effect is peter mandelson but it shows a punchable face crosses party lines.



Finally, Ypauly, we agree on something!


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## Northerner (Nov 30, 2011)

ypauly said:


> Our bins were not emptied yesterday and it did make me wonder what day it was. They have been taken today so I can only assume the 'brummies' on strike don't have a calender.



Our binmen have been on strike/work to rule for the past 6 months. They have collected garden waste twice in that time (normally once a fortnight) - they came last week but because people have given up on them there was hardly anything left out for them to collect. I nearly fainted when they came and collected both waste and recyclables this Monday  - first time on the allocated day for 6 months! They've been striking because the council wanted to cut their wages and sign up to a new contract with worse working conditions. They've had a lot of concessions though and the general support they had initially has now faded.


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## Brendan (Nov 30, 2011)

There does not seem to be any striking around my way  Bins were collected at 7:30am as usual. Also I live by the council offices and the car park is full and absolutely no sign of any protests there. Makes me wonder if the strike is as well supported as they say.


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## Andy HB (Nov 30, 2011)

Whilst I was on my walk thru Maidstone, there was a mini-procession going in the opposite direction. I smiled sweetly at them, but thought something different 

Interestingly there seemed to be an awful lot of people shopping. Perhaps the retail sales today might have a bit of an uplift?

Andy


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## Twitchy (Nov 30, 2011)

Andy HB said:


> Whilst I was on my walk thru Maidstone, there was a mini-procession going in the opposite direction. I smiled sweetly at them, but thought something different
> 
> Interestingly there seemed to be an awful lot of people shopping. Perhaps the retail sales today might have a bit of an uplift?
> 
> Andy



lol...the govt did say they wanted to boost the economy - not sure they had this planned though!!


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## FM001 (Nov 30, 2011)

ypauly said:


> Ah the only person in the current goverment who I would enjoy punching in the face, in fact I don't think I would ever get tired of pucnhing.




Only one  my dilemma would be where to begin.  First I'd love to wipe that smug look of Cameron & Osbourne's faces then boot Glegg up the backside for sitting behind them like a nodding dog whilst betraying his party and the people who voted for them.  

Next would be Hague Alexander Clarke.................................

the list is endless


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## cherrypie (Nov 30, 2011)

Teresa May .  I would like to slay her with words as opposed to punching her.


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## trophywench (Nov 30, 2011)

cherrypie said:


> Teresa May .  I would like to slay her with words as opposed to punching her.




.... and you'd probably succeed Cherry!

I'm with Paul on that Gove thing, but next comes the adenoidal Milliband.  I can't even hear what he is saying (and I'm probably no worse off for that) because I can't bear his voice and shut it out.

In fact why bother listening to any of em.

I also don't understand, saw somehwere that only 1 in 4 of the Union members had actually bothered to vote.  I thought (from my former Staff Association days) you had to draw X per cent (which I thought was summat like 65% ???) of your total membership in order for the vote to be valid anyway?  I'm talking proper Electoral Reform Society ballots here, not the rules of the Union/Association itself - or maybe our own rules were just better than theirs?


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## MeanMom (Nov 30, 2011)

K's school closed for lessons today but they coukd go in if parents were unable to make alterative arrangements, bizarrely 

I'm not on strike 'cos Mums (even Mean ones) can't strike.

And I don't get a pension either.

Ho Hum


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## cherrypie (Nov 30, 2011)

If nothing else, I think that this action and the controversy surrounding it might bring it home to the younger generation that they need to make provision for their old age as they will be old one day.


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## runner (Nov 30, 2011)

Northerner said:


> I've worked in the private sector all my life. One thing that really hit home when I was diagnosed and in hospital for 8 days was the massive contrast between the work that the nurses, doctors, bed managers, orderlies, porters etc. all put in day in, day out. No-one I have ever worked with in the private sector (and my job involved working with people in hundreds of private sector companies) came close. I'm not saying they don't exist, but rather that there seems to be this misapprehension that public sector work is somehow 'cushier' than the private sector - there are hard-working people everywhere.
> 
> It's an inescapable fact that the lowest-paid in society are being made to pay for the mistakes and greed of the highest earners, and now they are being squeezed beyond retirement.


Thank you!  I know the UK workforce work the longest hours in Europe, and this is certainly so of many public sector workers, many of whom get paid a salary and do not get paid overtime for the extra, often 10 or more hours a week, they put in.  I know my OH did.  But, I think some of the press and government are on a 'divide and rule' mission - as many a striker has said - they are fighting for everyone to have a decent pension not just themselves - just as you say - it is the less well off again who are being asked to make the biggest sacrifices, and the young, elderly and vulnerable who will suffer the most.

How many year to the next election?


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## FM001 (Nov 30, 2011)

Watching the ITV news and the pictures of the mass rallies taking place up and down the country are moving, yet the flustered red-faced Cameron in PQT today called the protest ''a damp squib''..........nice to see his Oxford eduction hasn't gone to waste


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## robert@fm (Nov 30, 2011)

I suppose people took the opportunity of today to catch up with their laundry -- iron while the strike's hot. 

(Sorry, just couldn't resist...)


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## Copepod (Nov 30, 2011)

Well, our lodger, who was on strike, made use of a good day for solar electricity generation to wash his linen, and then I did our laundry, as I'm only doing early morning and bedtime care work today, not employed by NHS, local council or any such body.


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## runner (Nov 30, 2011)

robert@fm said:


> I suppose people took the opportunity of today to catch up with their laundry -- iron while the strike's hot.
> 
> (Sorry, just couldn't resist...)



Arrgghhh


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## Ellie Jones (Nov 30, 2011)

Watching some of the news reports I saw my old union yep hold my hands up I once belonged to Unison

Funny isn't that Unison does the pay negotiation for the company I used to and Les still works for..  We were one of the first social services to flog off their elderly care homes (our company a not for profit charitable  was created by the social services managers that ran it) when it first took over the homes and staff, contracts and benefit were kept to the old social services, then the weekend enhancements stopped..  For the first 10 years our wages were still being done via country hall but then our the company took it over, at this point we were all kicked out the civil service pension rights/package

Then we went several years without a pay rise (several directors lost their jobs over the reasons why behind this) the Union didn't pick up on the problems even though they had access to company accounts, it was a group of people who were trying to stop a planning permission being granted who did  background search of a companies directors that found the scam

The next thing on the hit list, was our sick pay scheme yep it was the same as the civil servant enjoyed it went gone dispatched with and replaced with a option to pay into a Income Protection scheme from an external provider..  Oh both and I were refused cover due to our diabetes

I left the company Les still there, he had his first pay rise in 2 years this October,  a Whole 1% but with an adjustment to pay the company no longer pays for double time for bank holidays which in Les case he's rotored for every Monday so effectively loses over a weeks worth of pay..

So where  were Unison in all this, after all they've been shouting all day about unfairness of the pension changes faced by public sector workers..

So where was unison, well your guess is as good as mine, nowhere to be seen and didn't utter a word as our once good pay package was destroyed

So now with no pension living on min wage, dreaded Les requiring sick leave and no pension for when he retires in 10 years time (he's 55) so maybe it could be another 11 or 12 years!  Who knows..

It's no surprise that I'm not a supporter of the strike


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## cherrypie (Dec 1, 2011)

U.K. Strikers abused during media blackout
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/213174.html
Daily Mail had to delete it's online poll after 84% supported public sector strike.

I see David Cameron has been doing the rounds on TV today showing what a good guy he is and how we need this Big Society.  No surprise that he skirted around the questions he was asked.


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## cherrypie (Dec 1, 2011)

Even the Queen joined in by telling her workers that they would not be paid if they joined the Strike.  You don't get paid if you go on strike.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/213012.html


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## Northerner (Dec 1, 2011)

I thought it was particularly insulting of Cameron to describe the strikes as a 'damp squib', thus belittling the people who felt forced to take action. There somehow appears to be this idea amongst the government that public sector workers aren't needed, get paid too much and are on some sort of pensions gravy train. Moreover, you'd think that none of them paid taxes from the way the govt. is saying that they have to consider the taxpayers who are paying for the pensions. Do the govt. not realise that these people have a vote, or do they also intend to disenfranchise them before the next election?

And so much for us all being in it together: I was reading today that the changes mentioned in the Autumn statement will leave someone on ?15k a year ?45 a year worse off, on ?18,200 a year ?36 worse off - but on ?76,100 a year ?105 *better* off! Giving more money to those that will hardly notice it and taking it away from those who will really miss it


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## cherrypie (Dec 1, 2011)

Public sector workers don't produce money and that is something that they never will do and I think that is this Govt's problem.  They fail to realise that the public sector look after the public.  There is no money to be made out of the jobs that they do unless they are privatised.  This will mean a class divide for things like health.  
It is very rarely reported that the pension of the public sector is not given to them by the Govt., they have paid their contribution towards it.
I also think that the Govt. thought they could ride over these workers and they would take it.
If Cameron doesn't watch it there may well be a general strike as other Unions may well come out in sympathy.


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## runner (Dec 1, 2011)

Just heard some of the things Geremy Clarkson said on the One Show last night - I won't be watching any of his shows or buying any of his books again.  What a selfish idiot, completely out of touch with real life....

*Clarkson - resign!*


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## Robster65 (Dec 1, 2011)

Someone pointed out on twitter that his co-presenter, Richard 'the hamster' Hammond was not so long ago having his life saved by the very public sector workers who he put down.

Rob


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## ypauly (Dec 1, 2011)

All those people attacking Clarkson really do need to get a grip and lighten up a little, he may not have any tact and a style that offends but the message he was sending was perfectly valid. He has worked tirelessly for help the heros and had only the day before met some of our wounded as he does so often who had lost limbs and seen their friends being killed. He is a regular over sees on moralle boosting missions giving our soldiers a much needed lift. 

He was making the point that some of our public servants are losing far more than a few pounds, far far more and that they have no right to complain about it while others are losing so much more coming home in boxes.

He doesn't make his point well, he has no tact but that doesn't mean the point is invalid and it doesn't mean the message is wrong.


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## Andy HB (Dec 1, 2011)

Can we keep the Clarkson comments light please (just in case things get 'heated' here too). One thread has already been closed and I for one like to keep the conversations cordial.

Ta muchly,

Andy


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## ypauly (Dec 1, 2011)

toby said:


> Watching the ITV news and the pictures of the mass rallies taking place up and down the country are moving, yet the flustered red-faced Cameron in PQT today called the protest ''a damp squib''..........nice to see his Oxford eduction hasn't gone to waste


Has ed millibands oxford education gone to waste?


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## Andy HB (Dec 1, 2011)

ypauly said:


> Has ed millibands oxford education gone to waste?



Na! He's trying his little heart out .... bless!


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## FM001 (Dec 1, 2011)

ypauly said:


> All those people attacking Clarkson really do need to get a grip and lighten up a little, he may not have any tact and a style that offends but the message he was sending was perfectly valid. He has worked tirelessly for help the heros and had only the day before met some of our wounded as he does so often who had lost limbs and seen their friends being killed. He is a regular over sees on moralle boosting missions giving our soldiers a much needed lift.
> 
> He was making the point that some of our public servants are losing far more than a few pounds, far far more and that they have no right to complain about it while others are losing so much more coming home in boxes.
> 
> He doesn't make his point well, he has no tact but that doesn't mean the point is invalid and it doesn't mean the message is wrong.




Ah right his message was valid  So saying people should be executed in front of their family for standing up to their rights is justifiable? yet our troops are fighting in Afganistan and Iraq to rid tyranny and give those persecuted the chance to stand-up for the rights in a peaceful manner - how odd

Clarkson is a fool and he has insulted people from all walks of life in the past including the disabled and cancer patients, the 5000 complaints to the BBC speaks volumes about what this man has said and I'm very surprised to see you here defending his actions.


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## Robster65 (Dec 1, 2011)

I think we'd better steer clear of clarkson as an off topic subject. He's known for making outrageous, sweeping statements and he has a DVD to plug.

His comments have distracted from the topic of the strike, which I'm sure the government are only to pleased about. The unions would probably be better off not responding to him and bringing the agenda back to the dispute.

Some like him, some don't.

Rob


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## ypauly (Dec 1, 2011)

toby said:


> Ah right his message was valid  So saying people should be executed in front of their family for standing up to their rights is justifiable? yet our troops are fighting in Afganistan and Iraq to rid tyranny and give those persecuted the chance to stand-up for the rights in a peaceful manner - how odd
> 
> Clarkson is a fool and he has insulted people from all walks of life in the past including the disabled and cancer patients, the 5000 complaints to the BBC speaks volumes about what this man has said and I'm very surprised to see you here defending his actions.



I think he was making the point that causing disruption and problems over relatively small sums is selfish when we are asking people to give lives and limbs.
500 complaints just says there are 5000 idiots who shouldn't be allowed to watch TV unacompanied.


I have just heard somebody from Unison wants him sacked immediately. I couldn't stop laughing because if that's how the unions want things done without any hearings or formal process they may get their wish.


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## Steff (Dec 1, 2011)

It would be nice if people could actually take  note of what a mod has said and NOT carry on  talking about Clarkson, or this thread will be closed FGS


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## ypauly (Dec 1, 2011)

Steff said:


> It would be nice if people could actually take  note of what a mod has said and NOT carry on  talking about Clarkson, or this thread will be closed FGS



It would be nice to have the very big bold letters at the top of this thread that can't be missed removed if they do not want clarkson discussed.


ETA it's the last page now lol


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## Steff (Dec 1, 2011)

ypauly said:


> It would be nice to have the very big bold letters at the top of this thread that can't be missed removed if they do not want clarkson discussed.
> 
> 
> ETA it's the last page now lol



or you start your own thread maybe? which will be closed more then likely within an hour


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