# EU referendum - don't waste your vote!



## Northerner (Jun 22, 2016)




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## Stitch147 (Jun 22, 2016)

I'll be voting after work tomorrow.


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## Redkite (Jun 22, 2016)

Fab!  If only all the Leave voters could wait until Friday to stroll up to the polling stations


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## Ljc (Jun 22, 2016)

Northerner said:


> View attachment 1485


He he


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## Northerner (Jun 22, 2016)

I can understand the potential Leave voters being fired up by the emotional arguments and suggestions of the Leave campaign - more NHS money, better schools, wages, housing, less immigration, taking back 'control' - but when I have seen people being interviewed they seem to be overlooking the very simple fact that, with an even-further-right wing Tory government in power, NONE of it will happen!  They keep raising James Dyson and the boss of JCB as examples of businessmen who back Leave, but Dyson moved his workforce to Malaysia and JCB got fined millions of euros for breaking EU law - of course they are not concerned if we leave! 

Had the arguments been put forward by politicians who I actually trusted then my decision would have been harder - but Boris, Gove, Farage, Patel and IDS as champions of the working man? Utter fantasy!   Most of the Remain camp have been as bad, with Project Fear - it is not credible that Cameron can turn on a sixpence when he called the referendum and put us at risk of leaving in the first place. Corbyn has been criticised for not being 'passionate' enough about the EU, but he has actually got it right - the EU isn't great, but the alternative will certainly be worse - and Boris etc. will not be the ones to bear the brunt of any failures.


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## trophywench (Jun 22, 2016)

.... and both Massey Ferguson and Peugeot closed their manufacturing plants in England because they each needed to shed one factory - and although both of the British ones actually made more profit, because of the Labour laws in France - it was cheaper to close the UK ones.


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## Contused (Jun 22, 2016)

*Good one!*


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## HOBIE (Jun 22, 2016)

Great Britain !!!!!!.  I have been all over Europe on brand new roads. Who paid for them do you think ?


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## Diabeticliberty (Jun 22, 2016)

Once again I will not yet announce my own vote but the leave campaigners suggesting that the supposed 350 million pounds per week that we currently send to Europe could be spent on the NHS and the farmers and the universities seems to ignore the fact completely that if GDP dips by even one quarter of one percent and in all probability our GDP would wobble by a whole lot more than that then the wonderful 350 million and a whole lot more will be gone as quickly as I can splutter out the word xenophobia. What Peugeot did at Righton was of course absolutely disgusting and I will not attempt to defend it. The thing is though had Peugeot closed a French factory then the French people would have barricaded the Channel until the decision was reversed. What did we do? Absolutely nothing. What really sticks in my throat however is how a lot of my fellow Brits now go out and buy Peugeot cars. I would not sully my name by associating myself with Peugeot and when Righton was closed I made a point of getting rid of my own and would never have another one. The Peugeot factory closure was not however the fault of Europe it was the fault of Peugeot and the UK Government at the time. 

I would add that I have a number of clients who are European foreign owned and a number of clients who have major export markets into Europe and if they go bump as a result of a Brexit then so does my own company. All the nonsense in the world being spouted regarding negotiating wonderful trade deals will not keep my own people employed when we have machines standing idle and no work to put through them.  I rely heavily on Unilever and they have already muted the fact that they may just switch the lights off and close the door as they move to Europe. I rely heavily on Japanese companies who use their UK Operations as a springboard to supply into Europe. I rely heavily on an Indian owned luxury car manufacturer who do the same. I have very few clients who do not supply into Europe I do have 20odd people holding their hands out to be paid a living. Some of them are voting to leave which is of course their democratic right. I do not yet know what to tell them in 6 weeks time if we are out of Europe and my company has no business. 

I grow ever more tired hearing how the New Zealand, Australian and Canadian points based immigration system is so bloody wonderful. Britain has a similar system for non EU migrants. We also have more none EU migrants than we have EU migrants. Migrants do however make a nice soft easy target for the wrongs in our wonderful land. The whole leave argument is a fabrication of lies. My big issue is however is that a major element of the remain campaign seems to have been constructed on the same suspect foundations.


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## Northerner (Jun 22, 2016)

Laura Kunesburg put her finger on it - it's a referendum that shouldn't be happening:



> The referendum came about because of a decision that David Cameron took to hold off internal pressure in his own party and UKIP nibbling away at the Tory base. His team insist they had no choice, that it wasn't sustainable to carry on without offering a referendum. It was though, a political choice, not a response to overwhelming demand from the general public. The PM who wanted his party to stop banging on about Europe, has reopened old wounds in his party, and a whole new generation of MPs, many of whom frankly didn't care very much about the EU, have been forcibly sucked in to a festering dispute that has raged for decades. New wounds have been inflicted.


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## Diabeticliberty (Jun 22, 2016)

Northerner said:


> Laura Kunesburg put her finger on it - it's a referendum that shouldn't be happening:




I know that you are very anti Conservative Alan but the thing is for most of the businesses I know and most of the people I deal with the Labour Party would never be given even semi serious consideration with Jeremy Corbyn at the wheel and John McDonnel operating the satnav. In the next general election I would not vote Conservative by pure conviction but could not vote Labour in its current format through good sense. For a lot of people in the middle ground of politics this is the predicament a lot of us will find ourselves in. I vote as I always have on the policies presented by all if the parties at the time of an election.  If Labour intends to drag itself out of the political wilderness then it needs to find a leader who can appeal to middle England failing this you may see a Conservative Government for the next 500 years. I don't particularly relish that thought either


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## Northerner (Jun 22, 2016)

Goodness knows what will happen in the future, but clearly politics is changing and many politicians have failed to move with the times. We've had Thatcher morphing into Blair, into Brown then Cameron and Miliband. I agree that future leaders will need broad appeal, but as things stand inequality is increasing and politics is heading towards the polar opposites. I doubt Corbyn will be leader for the next election, he's already getting on a bit. I'd prefer to see someone like Owen Smith, who I think could have the broad appeal you are looking for.


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## Diabeticliberty (Jun 22, 2016)

Northerner said:


> Goodness knows what will happen in the future, but clearly politics is changing and many politicians have failed to move with the times. We've had Thatcher morphing into Blair, into Brown then Cameron and Miliband. I agree that future leaders will need broad appeal, but as things stand inequality is increasing and politics is heading towards the polar opposites. I doubt Corbyn will be leader for the next election, he's already getting on a bit. I'd prefer to see someone like Owen Smith, who I think could have the broad appeal you are looking for.




Regardless of any political persuasion that any of us may lean towards I don't feel that anybody could argue that a healthy opposition party to stand against any current government makes for a better constitution and better government.  Unfortunately I feel that at the moment we are lacking in this. The government then can do whatever the hell it likes without fear of being turfed out at the next election.  Do you not feel then that in this regard the Conservative Party is for the most part responsible for tomorrow's bloody fiasco. The Labour Party however has a considerable hand in it too. I heard Corbyn this week demanding that in the event of an out vote a general election should be called. The issue facing us currently in my opinion transcends party politics and party politicians should act accordingly. The opposition that I have seen him put to an out vote could barely be described as lukewarm even if you microwaved it for 20 minutes. I have heard quoted that some core labour supporters have had to seek clarification as to what their parties stance is on the European vote as the message from the top has been muddled at best and bloody incoherent at worst.


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## Andy HB (Jun 22, 2016)

Northerner said:


> Laura Kunesburg put her finger on it - it's a referendum that shouldn't be happening:


Although I am happy to be given an opportunity to vote on this matter. I wasn't able to before when I was too young!


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## Bloden (Jun 23, 2016)

Voted a couple of weeks ago! Postal vote, of course... I feel European (as well as Welsh and British) so it'd be difficult to get my head around no longer being European. From what I've seen on the news, the campaigning got pretty ugly (even before Jo Cox's shocking murder) which makes me really sad. It also makes me wonder what drives people like Boris and Farage, well, politicians in general (there's a second general election in 6 months coming up here in Spain, so my opinion of politicos in general is thru the floor!). Power is obviously a potent drug.


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## Northerner (Jun 23, 2016)

Just voted  Encouragingly, when I joked about 'forming an orderly queue' as I walked in with my neighbour, the officials said there had actually been a queue when they opened for business - never heard of before!  Hope that, whatever the decision, it's the right one


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## Andy HB (Jun 23, 2016)

I am European whether or not we are in or out of the EU. 

But, of course, I am British first. English (and 25% Scottish) next.

Andy


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## Northerner (Jun 23, 2016)

Andy HB said:


> I am European whether or not we are in or out of the EU.
> 
> But, of course, I am British first. English (and 25% Scottish) next.
> 
> Andy


I'm a Yorkshireman first


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## Andy HB (Jun 23, 2016)

Northerner said:


> Hope that, whatever the decision, it's the right one


Just as importantly it is one that everyone accepts for a long time rather than trying to manoeuvre another vote in a year or two on spurious grounds.


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## Andy HB (Jun 23, 2016)

Northerner said:


> I'm a Yorkshireman first


Good reply!!!!


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## Austin Mini (Jun 23, 2016)

We have seen how UK taxpayers money has been spent in other countrys. Their roads are superb. They dont pay any community charge on Gozo and have their bins collected daily thanks to UK taxpayers and yes they brag about it. We will all be voting Leave.


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## KookyCat (Jun 23, 2016)

Well I've voted, and there was a queue here too, not sure which way it will go but I've had my say now so I've done my duty.  I'll be very glad when it's done and dusted and the politicians stop making utter numpties of themselves with ridiculous emotional manipulation.  I think I've been fairly clear that my concern isn't how Europe conducts its business it's how the UK conducts its business, we are the fifth largest economy in the world, we can afford roads, the contribution to Europe is minuscule in comparison to our GDP, we can also afford the NHS, and to support those who need it with dignity.  We choose not to.


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## Annette (Jun 23, 2016)

KookyCat said:


> I'll be very glad when it's done and dusted and the politicians stop making utter numpties of themselves with ridiculous emotional manipulation.


That point in time will be a very long time coming, methinks...


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## Northerner (Jun 23, 2016)

Austin Mini said:


> We have seen how UK taxpayers money has been spent in other countrys. Their roads are superb. They dont pay any community charge on Gozo and have their bins collected daily thanks to UK taxpayers and yes they brag about it. We will all be voting Leave.


I suspect that has much more to do with the tourist £££ rather than an EU subsidy...


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## Flower (Jun 23, 2016)

I love democracy  I have just been to cast my vote accompanied by my neighbour who told me she had waited a long time for a chance to vote out of the EU. I was so tempted to say lets just both turn around now as you and I are just about to cancel each other out. There was a small but very well behaved queue in my neck of the woods !


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## pav (Jun 23, 2016)

Voted a while ago, which ever way you vote remember to take a pen and not use a pencil, as pencil can be erased and the vote changed, very sceptical of me, but just don't trust any of them.


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## Northerner (Jun 23, 2016)

Flower said:


> I love democracy  I have just been to cast my vote accompanied by my neighbour who told me she had waited a long time for a chance to vote out of the EU. I was so tempted to say lets just both turn around now as you and I are just about to cancel each other out. There was a small but very well behaved queue in my neck of the woods !


Most of my friends and neighbours appear to be voting to remain.


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## Bloden (Jun 23, 2016)

Austin Mini said:


> We have seen how UK taxpayers money has been spent in other countrys. Their roads are superb. They dont pay any community charge on Gozo and have their bins collected daily thanks to UK taxpayers and yes they brag about it. We will all be voting Leave.


Roads superb?! You obviously haven't been to Asturias! (We pay a community charge, btw).


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## Contused (Jun 23, 2016)

Just remember…​





​


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## HOBIE (Jun 23, 2016)

Contused said:


> Just remember…​
> 
> 
> 
> ​


There are no fences on the postal voting form.  I have travelled nearly every country in Europe inc Estonia Latvia Lithuania, Spain ,Rep of Ireland. Norway Sweden Turkey. On brand new roads.  Voted OUT weeks ago & did not listen to the ----- on the tv.  Good old BRITISH STANDARDS !      we used to rule a lot of the world


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## grovesy (Jun 23, 2016)

I went at 1pm , my son went at 2pm, and my husband went at 5pm little or no queues, which suprised me. Though my husband was going to do on the way to work as the road was flooded and roads were busy he left it till he came home.
The park where I walk the dog, the football clubhouse was a polling station no queues there at 3pm!


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## Diabeticliberty (Jun 23, 2016)

I would like to dedicate this to all of you leave supporters


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## AliMacdonald (Jun 23, 2016)

I, personally have been against voting. However the UK will stay EU. Its the same story all over again. Scottish independance was the same, untill the votes was released alot Scots was for it. EU is the safest bet for the UK, as they are not too fancy with the G8 at the moment either.


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## HOBIE (Jun 24, 2016)

Am pleased the French have nowt to do with deciding what we do. Duel carriageways around here have been changed to one lane with EU money, The docks all around have had houses built on them with the help of EU money. Not fixing our roads etc.  The French now own the water board & have you noticed were wheelie bins come from. We used to have Dennis trucks to empty our bins now Renault . As for splitting this country up I am very very much against it. 6 nations rugby we could take on the world if we were together as one country


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## Northerner (Jun 24, 2016)

The French own the Water board because Thatcher flogged it to them, nothing to do with the EU.


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## HOBIE (Jun 24, 2016)

Northerner said:


> The French own the Water board because Thatcher flogged it to them, nothing to do with the EU.


Who do you think owns EDF energy Northy ?  I would not trust them & as for the head of labour he needs to go !  Can you remember the post about when he would not sing the national anthem ?


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## Northerner (Jun 24, 2016)

HOBIE said:


> Who do you think owns EDF energy Northy ?  I would not trust them & as for the head of labour he needs to go !  Can you remember the post about when he would not sing the national anthem ?


My point is that foreign owners of our utilities has nothing to do with the EU - the Steel industry is owned by India!  EDF aren't going to give it back!


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## HOBIE (Jun 24, 2016)

& my point is I would not trust the French. Like a lot of other people in this country  Can you imagine British soldiers being made to stand on piers while French soldiers when evacuated from Dunkirk. My grandfather witnessed that & has been said on "world at war". .  Vauxhall did supply the water board with vehicles.    Other people do have opinions


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## Lilylou (Jun 24, 2016)

Northerner said:


> View attachment 1485


"Sour grapes" maybe raising heads above parapet!


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## Redkite (Jun 24, 2016)

HOBIE said:


> & my point is I would not trust the French. Like a lot of other people in this country  Can you imagine British soldiers being made to stand on piers while French soldiers when evacuated from Dunkirk. My grandfather witnessed that & has been said on "world at war". .  Vauxhall did supply the water board with vehicles.    Other people do have opinions



Can people stop with the xenophobic hate please? . Why is it deemed acceptable to say you don't like or don't trust the French?  If you replaced that with, for example, the Indians, can you not see how racist your attitude is?  My son's Dad is french, has lived here for 30 years, worked and paid his taxes, and now we face terrifying uncertainty as to his status in this country and whether he will be estranged from our son.  Thank you xenophobes


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## grovesy (Jun 24, 2016)

Northerner said:


> My point is that foreign owners of our utilities has nothing to do with the EU - the Steel industry is owned by India!  EDF aren't going to give it back!


What Steel Industry? it has all but gone in my native Teesside! I come from an an extended family that worked in many trades of the steel Industry, but again its demise was started by Maggie!


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## Northerner (Jun 24, 2016)

grovesy said:


> What Steel Industry? it has all but gone in my native Teesside! I come from an an extended family that worked in many trades of the steel Industry, but again its demise was started by Maggie!


I remember it well - I lived in Sheffield as her assault on it started  I also remember seeing photos of Sheffield steelworkers marching in protest in the window of Tass news agency in Moscow  After she'd broken the steel industry, she moved onto the miners  Sheffield, a prosperous city in the 70s, became a wasteland in the 80s


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## HOBIE (Jun 24, 2016)

There are now houses built on old ship yards/ coal mines all euro money.  They are very helpful people them eu ees


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## grovesy (Jun 24, 2016)

Well in my home town the Football Stadium on one of the Ship Yards!


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## Bloden (Jun 24, 2016)

Redkite said:


> Can people stop with the xenophobic hate please? . Why is it deemed acceptable to say you don't like or don't trust the French?  If you replaced that with, for example, the Indians, can you not see how racist your attitude is?  My son's Dad is french, has lived here for 30 years, worked and paid his taxes, and now we face terrifying uncertainty as to his status in this country and whether he will be estranged from our son.  Thank you xenophobes


Thanks, Redkite.  My glucose has been rather high all day because of some of the comments.  My family's spread all over the world and, yep, some of them are French! And Cypriot, and American, and South African, and Canadian, and even English! No Spaniards though, just lots of fab Spanish friends.


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