# ‘More people will die’: fears for clinically vulnerable as England axes plan B



## Northerner (Jan 22, 2022)

“We must learn to live with Covid in the same way we have to live with flu,” Sajid Javid told the nation this week. For most people, the parallel with flu is now valid: vaccinations and acquired immunity have defanged Covid to the point that there is no longer much risk of becoming severely unwell.

However, the pandemic’s finishing line has not yet come clearly into focus for a sizeable minority in society. In England, 3.7 million people fall in the clinically extremely vulnerable (CEV) category, including those with blood cancers, an organ transplant, kidney disease and other conditions linked to immunosuppression.

“It feels to me that lying behind the [lifting of restrictions] is the idea that probably everyone’s going to get it and everyone will be all right,” said Gemma Peters, the chief executive of Blood Cancer UK. “In our community, that isn’t true. If more people get it, more people will die.”

Starting from a far higher level of risk, those with suppressed immune systems also get less protection from vaccines and are accounting for an increasing proportion of ICU admissions and deaths. Yet many feel like a “forgotten minority”, according to Maggie Wearmouth, a GP and member of the government’s Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI).









						‘More people will die’: fears for clinically vulnerable as England axes plan B
					

Coronavirus pandemic’s finishing line has not yet come clearly into focus for millions of people




					www.theguardian.com
				




I don't think there has been any real plan for people in this category since the first lockdown was lifted and thhose shielding were left to fend for themselves as best they could. I'm not saying that all those people who don't have these worries should continue to have restrictions placed on them, but the government should at the very least have a considered plan for those who do - but that would suggest some degree of forethought and competence, which appears in very short supply


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## grovesy (Jan 22, 2022)

I don't think there was ever a proper plan for this group in the first place.


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## mikeyB (Jan 25, 2022)

Amity Island said:


> Doesn't this whole problem stem from those who were playing with viruses (making them worse) in a lab? Perhaps they and their funders are the people who should be taking the blame?


This thread is not for discussion of your conspiracy theories as to its origin.

In Scotland all the mask wearing orders are still in place. In England, everyone will be partying and cheerfully spreading Omicron around. In my hospital appointment this morning, I had to wear a mask both in the patient transport and at all times in the hospital. They know the risks, and East Lancs is a hotbed of infection. God knows what the vulnerable folk are thinking.


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## Amigo (Jan 25, 2022)

Amity Island said:


> Mikey B,
> 
> It's hardly a conspiracy theory. It is an absolute fact that labs all over the world, as we speak, are working with viruses in all sorts of ways. It is also a fact that the viruses that are being analysed and "developed" (made worse) do and have leaked from labs. It is a fact that many scientists believe the virus did come from a lab. It seems that the focus at the moment is to blame everyone _but_ those likely responsible for the pandemic, hence my valid point.



But how does it help the people impacted and the subject of this discussion Amity? For some, the implications are greater than intellectual rhetoric, endless conjecture, theories and blame.


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## travellor (Jan 25, 2022)

Amity Island said:


> I think it is a bit unfair to expect the politicians to sort all this mess out. There is only so much they can do given the dreadful circumstances we are in. Nor, do I think anybody can solve these issues on the forum, hence, people give their opinons which they are entitled to.
> 
> Perhaps the point I raised is an important point worthy of discussion instead of criticism and glee from those liking "conspiracy theory" responses?
> 
> If we look at these things sensibly and realistically, it means we have the potential to avoid such things happening again and thus helping those who now need to shield in these circumstances?



What, you think politicians, and leaders of the country shouldn't be sorting this out, if your conspiracy theories have substance? 
Who would you suggest organises the raids on the secret labs all these viruses are leaking from?
In the meantime, reality is I can get vaccinated, I can wear a mask.
However, I have no intention of raiding alledged secret bio warfare facilities.


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## Bruce Stephens (Jan 25, 2022)

Amity Island said:


> I am also not suggesting raiding any labs, only that they could be shut down or perhaps made safer, to avoid the chances of these things happening again.


Alternatively, maybe this virus came (somehow) from bats into humans unaided by any labs.

In which case closing the labs would just increase our ignorance. Having labs investigate the viruses that animals and plants have is surely how we find what's out there; it's an obvious part of One Health.

(I don't suppose anyone would argue that making research safer is a bad idea.)


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## silentsquirrel (Jan 25, 2022)

@Amity Island , have you actually read the title of this thread?  You have totally derailed it.


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## travellor (Jan 25, 2022)

Amity Island said:


> Would you not agree that prevention is better than cure? The clinically vulnerable have been left in a difficult position after the lifting of the restrictions. I believe we should be looking ahead at avoiding such problems in the future, rather than just blaming those trying to deal with the current problems.
> 
> @silentsquirrel How does this view "totally derail the thread"?


When you post an "absolute fact" then your proof of that fact is to quote "speculation", it's simply a conspiracy theory, and derailing a thread that it has nothing to do with.
Maybe you should start your own thread, and if we are interested, I'm sure we can post on that if we care.


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## silentsquirrel (Jan 26, 2022)

Amity Island said:


> Would you not agree that prevention is better than cure? The clinically vulnerable have been left in a difficult position after the lifting of the restrictions. I believe we should be looking ahead at avoiding such problems in the future, rather than just blaming those trying to deal with the current problems.
> 
> @silentsquirrel How does this view "totally derail the thread"?


The thread is neither about prevention nor cure nor speculation on cause of the virus.

Don't waste your time replying, much as I dislike the concept of 'ignoring', I am about to press the ignore button for you.


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## Windy (Jan 26, 2022)

Amity Island said:


> Where is the enquiry and investigation into the source of the virus that devastated our planet?


No enquiry, as far as I know, but the world health organisation did a report on it and said:
"The joint team’s assessment of likelihood of each possible pathway was as follows:
• direct zoonotic spillover is considered to be a possible-to-likely pathway;
• introduction through an intermediate host is considered to be a likely to very likely pathway;
• introduction through cold/ food chain products is considered a possible pathway;
• introduction through a laboratory incident was considered to be an extremely unlikely pathway."

Zoonotic = a disease which came from animals.
They suggest bats, pangolins and cats as possible intermediate hosts.


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## mikeyB (Jan 28, 2022)

Thank god for that. The topic of the thread is what effect the slashing of restrictions will have on vulnerable people. 

My own opinion is that the words “Vulnerable” people should also add the “unvaccinated”. Most of the folk in ICUs appear to be younger (i.e. under 55) unvaccinated folk.


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