# The Low Fat Question



## Neens (Jan 24, 2020)

Hi - following Low Carb (carb counting) and delighted to be told by the DN that I needn't have Low Fat Natural Greek Yoghurt as it is actually higher in carbs. So have indulged in my 2nd bucket of the creamy full stuff! I am weighing it and no more than 100g per serving. 

So I followed suit with cheese and have been reading a lot of info on food and T2. I am trying to lose weight (I have lost 12lbs already) and have just under 1.5 stones to reach BMI. So I know that LF is sometimes best option.

So cheese... I know about the matchbox size etc. but do people buy Low Fat versions or not? 

I know people who change milk for cream etc. I haven't done that and I limit the amount of low carb nuts as I know they are high in fat. 

Are there other foods where Low Fat is the more sensible option (even when the carbs are slightly higher)?

Thanks


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## Drummer (Jan 24, 2020)

I can't think of any food where the full fat version is higher in carbs than the low fat one.
When some evidence that not eating fat is doing good things for the population is produced I might reconsider, but there are two essential macronutrients and fats are one of them - our brain and nervous system are constructed and protected by fats, the white tissue of our brains is cholesterol - there is even the idea that not getting the right fats is affecting the brains of children - so for the moment I am using fats. I do not add much fat to the foods I eat, but I buy chicken thighs not fillets and do not remove the fat from meat. I collect the juice and fat from the joints of meat I cook and use it to cook vegetables or as the basis for casseroles.


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## Jodee (Jan 24, 2020)

Neens said:


> Hi - following Low Carb (carb counting) and delighted to be told by the DN that I needn't have Low Fat Natural Greek Yoghurt as it is actually higher in carbs. So have indulged in my 2nd bucket of the creamy full stuff! I am weighing it and no more than 100g per serving.
> 
> So I followed suit with cheese and have been reading a lot of info on food and T2. I am trying to lose weight (I have lost 12lbs already) and have just under 1.5 stones to reach BMI. So I know that LF is sometimes best option.
> 
> ...



I sometimes buy the cheese with the naturally lowest fat edam being one.  I generally just go with what I fancy, hard goats cheese is one of my favs, for a quick snack a slice of edam (pre sliced pack) can be satisfying.

You may have seen this page already, but scroll down for list of cheese fat content and carbs etc  https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-t...-with-diabetes/food-groups/dairy-and-diabetes


I recommend the Xpert education course for a better understanding on food types https://www.xperthealth.org.uk/


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## Deleted member 25429 (Jan 24, 2020)

I get low fat cheese and follow a low carb diet . The low fat cheese is just as good as full fat . I’ve got another stone I want to loose


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## ianf0ster (Jan 24, 2020)

As far as fatty meat, fatty fish and Full Fat Dairy is concerned, for me the higher the fat content the better! High fat in a non-processed food always means lower carbs.
As Drummer says, there is no believable scientific evidence that dietary fat (in natural foods) causes any harm- still no evidence after all these years of Fat /Cholesterol scares!
Fat and Protein are the only 2 essential macro nutrients, we can't live without them, though peoples such as Inuit, Masai, Sioux, Mongolians etc did very well on zero carbs (or very close to zero)!


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## ianf0ster (Jan 24, 2020)

Freddie1966 said:


> I get low fat cheese and follow a low carb diet . The low fat cheese is just as good as full fat . I’ve got another stone I want to loose



If you have another 14lbs to lose, why are you sabotaging your weight loss by choosing low fat versions. It is carbs that make us store body fat - not dietary fats!
In natural/ traditional foods, there is no such thing as High Fat together with High Carb. But Low Fat processed foods are almost always High Carb - to compensate for the flavour lost by reducing the fat content.


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## rebrascora (Jan 24, 2020)

If you have a lot of weight to lose then keeping your fat intake moderate whilst also eating low carb will cause your body to burn more of it's own fat stores. Once you reach a more normal BMI, then fat intake can be increased to stabilise weight. One of the advantages of eating fat is that it takes much longer to digest and only about 10% of it breaks down to produce glucose, if I remember correctly, so it gives you slow release energy and makes you feel full and satisfied for longer rather than carbs which release their glucose in a few hours and then you are left wanting more. If you are strong willed and can manage to eat low carb without eating too much fat, then you will lose weight faster I believe and then increase the fat gradually as you approach target weight, but look out for nutritional info on low fat foods as they almost always contain more carbs than the full fat version.
I would stick with the creamy natural yoghurt but perhaps go steady on the amount of cream and cheese you eat for now.


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## Deleted member 25429 (Jan 24, 2020)

ianf0ster said:


> If you have another 14lbs to lose, why are you sabotaging your weight loss by choosing low fat versions. It is carbs that make us store body fat - not dietary fats!
> In natural/ traditional foods, there is no such thing as High Fat together with High Carb. But Low Fat processed foods are almost always High Carb - to compensate for the flavour lost by reducing the fat content.


If you read my post I actually have a very low carb diet less than 50 grams a day , I’m type 1 and only need about 4 units of rapid insulin a day. I have managed to loose over 3 stone since July so think I’m doing ok eating the low fat cheese


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## chaoticcar (Jan 24, 2020)

I eat lots of full fat everything but low carb and I can't gain an ounce of weight 
  Carol


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## Wirrallass (Jan 25, 2020)

I concur with the @ianf0ster and @chaoticcar ~ high fat = lower carbs.
WL


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## Ljc (Jan 25, 2020)

I just eat normal fats rather than high fats.  I won’t touch anything that’s been made to be low fat as they add carbs / sugar to make it taste better  and improve the texture, however I do eat things that are naturally low fat apart from cottage cheese that is, as I think it’s vile


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## Neens (Jan 25, 2020)

Thanks all for your replies, most helpful.
I do limit cheese intake a bit, as in I try not to have it every day (I think it is the come down after Christmas/Christmas cheese) before diagnosis I only had it once or twice a week (although more than a matchbox), old Slimming World habits mean I am quite good as estimating a small portion/matchbox, sometimes I weigh it out and make it last throughout the day.
I have also started to buy a much smaller block (financially not the best plan) but stops that - oh, no it's changing colour best eat the rest of the block - problem. I like Edam so that's an option. Having had LF cheese before (SW) I think a lesser amount of the full taste is more satisfying for me but will check out a few labels when I need to restock.

The meat I have bought tends to be lean anyway and as for cream I don't tend to have it in my coffee and will just stick to the milk. I thought at first I would switch to Almond milk but DN said Dairy was fine.

It is good to hear opinions on it all though, voices of experience, so thank you all.

@Jodee thanks for the link - one of the few pages I had missed on the site - not sure how, an important one for me.


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## Toucan (Jan 25, 2020)

After years of being brainwashed that fat is bad, it is quite difficult to get used to including it - but it is lovely to enjoy the full-fat versions of things like yoghurt. cottage cheese etc, and I now never buy the low-fat versions of things.
I an though still a bit restrictive of eating some saturated fats like butter, cream and some cheeses, and tend to use olive and rapeseed oils. Not sure on the logic of this, but it feels right for me.
I do love cheese though - particularly green cheese. So I use St.Agur Blue Cream cheese which is a spread that I eat with celery sticks as a snack. It is  around 4g carbs for the whole 150g pot, and it only needs a small smear to satisfy the taste buds.


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## ianf0ster (Jan 25, 2020)

Freddie1966 said:


> If you read my post I actually have a very low carb diet less than 50 grams a day , I’m type 1 and only need about 4 units of rapid insulin a day. I have managed to loose over 3 stone since July so think I’m doing ok eating the low fat cheese


I apologise @Freddie1966 , I didn't read your post correctly and thought you were a Type 2. 
Your priority must be balancing Insulin against Carbs (and Protein) you plan to eat.

Ha you been a Type 2 then eating a lower fat cheese, unless you prefer the flavour texture etc., would be strange since Higher Fat Lower Carbs addresses both the condition and the desire to reduce weight.


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## ianf0ster (Jan 25, 2020)

chaoticcar said:


> I eat lots of full fat everything but low carb and I can't gain an ounce of weight
> Carol


I'm not sure if your Frown emoji is meant seriously.
If it is then in order to gain weight while keeping Blood Glucose under strict control you could try doing extra muscle building exercise such as lifting weights, doing squats, push-ups etc. together with eating a little more protein  - to build the additional lean muscle.


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## grovesy (Jan 25, 2020)

ianf0ster said:


> I'm not sure if your Frown emoji is meant seriously.
> If it is then in order to gain weight while keeping Blood Glucose under strict control you could try doing extra muscle building exercise such as lifting weights, doing squats, push-ups etc. together with eating a little more protein  - to build the additional lean muscle.


Some struggle to put on  or maintain their weight. I believe @chaoticcar is one of those.


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## Deleted member 25429 (Jan 25, 2020)

ianf0ster said:


> I apologise @Freddie1966 , I didn't read your post correctly and thought you were a Type 2.
> Your priority must be balancing Insulin against Carbs (and Protein) you plan to eat.
> 
> Ha you been a Type 2 then eating a lower fat cheese, unless you prefer the flavour texture etc., would be strange since Higher Fat Lower Carbs addresses both the condition and the desire to reduce weight.


I looked at some of the slimming foods, more carbs in small snack bars than I eat for my main meal !! I stay away completely from anything that is processed ( except cheese) natural healthy food is the way to go for me


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## nonethewiser (Jan 25, 2020)

Fridge has plenty of low fat food in it, wife on diet so has to be low or zero fat.


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## rebrascora (Jan 25, 2020)

nonethewiser said:


> Fridge has plenty of low fat food in it, wife on diet so has to be low or zero fat.


Actually it doesn't and this is the whole problem with weight loss diets. They are based upon the flawed theory that fat makes you fat... and it doesn't. Excessive carbs make you fat. Cutting portion size whilst still eating carbs and not eating fat means that when you reach your target weight and stop the diet, you put the weight back on again.
Fat is satisfying and therefore you are much less likely to overeat and over time your stomach shrinks. It also provides steady slow release energy rather than the glucose surge you get from carbs. Many of us find that 2 meals a day on a low carb higher fat diet is all we need. I know I eat a lot less now than I ever did before.


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## Drummer (Jan 25, 2020)

I tried to lose weight on low fat low calorie high carb regimes as directed - sometimes I started collapsing, sometimes I became befuddled. When I went back to low carb and lost weight I was often told it was a delayed reaction - I heard that again when my cholesterol went down after I was diagnosed. The nurse was quite sarcastic inferring that I'd been frightened into compliance by becoming diabetic. By eating low carb with fatty foods I found I'd lost loads of weight in a few weeks - that is what always works for me.


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## nonethewiser (Jan 25, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> Actually it doesn't and this is the whole problem with weight loss diets. They are based upon the flawed theory that fat makes you fat... and it doesn't. Excessive carbs make you fat. Cutting portion size whilst still eating carbs and not eating fat means that when you reach your target weight and stop the diet, you put the weight back on again.
> Fat is satisfying and therefore you are much less likely to overeat and over time your stomach shrinks. It also provides steady slow release energy rather than the glucose surge you get from carbs. Many of us find that 2 meals a day on a low carb higher fat diet is all we need. I know I eat a lot less now than I ever did before.



She is doing slimming world diet, it concentrates on healthy eating, loads of veg salads fruit + lean sources of meat low fat dairy. The results so far is 3+stone weight loss and feels really healthy for it, loves the SW way of eating and plans to go the maintenance diet once target weight is reached.

Consultant lost 7 stone 10 years ago and kept it off, inspiration for group, wife buys the SW mag and it's full of success stories every issue.

Carbs dont make you fat over eating does, but that isn't only cause as anybody knows.


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## ianf0ster (Jan 25, 2020)

nonethewiser said:


> Fridge has plenty of low fat food in it, wife on diet so has to be low or zero fat.


I, like Drummer was eating low fat (for over 10yrs) before my 3x Coronary Artery Bypass. I was stupid enough to keep eating that way until my T2D diagnosis, at which point I decided that I couldn't trust my GP with my health where dietary and exercise advice was concerned.
I found the other UK diabetes forum , read about the success of Low Carb, looked at as much study data as I could find and came to the conclusion that I 'd been deliberately misled by the big processed food manufacturers and big Pharma abetted by governments, health bodies and GPs.
The science behind Low Carb High(er) Fat is so simple that it makes complete sense to me, versus the evidence for High whole grain Carbs making no sense -  though I did study science at school back in the 1960's.


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## nonethewiser (Jan 25, 2020)

ianf0ster said:


> I, like Drummer was eating low fat (for over 10yrs) before my 3x Coronary Artery Bypass. I was stupid enough to keep eating that way until my T2D diagnosis, at which point I decided that I couldn't trust my GP with my health where dietary and exercise advice was concerned.
> I found the other UK diabetes forum , read about the success of Low Carb, looked at as much study data as I could find and came to the conclusion that I 'd been deliberately misled by the big processed food manufacturers and big Pharma abetted by governments, health bodies and GPs.
> The science behind Low Carb High(er) Fat is so simple that it makes complete sense to me, versus the evidence for High whole grain Carbs making no sense -  though I did study science at school back in the 1960's.


 
Good luck & good health with diet my friend.


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## Deleted member 25429 (Jan 25, 2020)

nonethewiser said:


> She is doing slimming world diet, it concentrates on healthy eating, loads of veg salads fruit + lean sources of meat low fat dairy. The results so far is 3+stone weight loss and feels really healthy for it, loves the SW way of eating and plans to go the maintenance diet once target weight is reached.
> 
> Consultant lost 7 stone 10 years ago and kept it off, inspiration for group, wife buys the SW mag and it's full of success stories every issue.
> 
> Carbs dont make you fat over eating does, but that isn't only cause as anybody knows.


Carbs do mean more insulin !


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## chaoticcar (Jan 25, 2020)

ianf0ster said:


> I'm not sure if your Frown emoji is meant seriously.
> If it is then in order to gain weight while keeping Blood Glucose under strict control you could try doing extra muscle building exercise such as lifting weights, doing squats, push-ups etc. together with eating a little more protein  - to build the additional lean muscle.


Yes the frown was meant seriously I seriously struggle to gain weight I am 76 years old and if I got down into squat position I would have to get up like a camel ! I also eat protein with every meal whilst keeping a close eye on my BGs 
   Carol


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## everydayupsanddowns (Jan 26, 2020)

I don’t think it’s quite fair to say that “there is no (believable) scientific evidence that dietary fat from natural foods causes harm”. But I suppose that would depend on how you define ‘believable’ and ‘natural’. There are lots and lots of studies large and small, and wider meta analyses that are argued to support and debunk both sides of this perennial argument. 

My opinion after more than a decade of reading quite polarised opinions on the subject is that neither LCHF nor HCLF are *the* answer, and that different people expose themselves to different levels of risk with a diet high in either carbohydrate or saturated fats. 

I like Alan S’s old adage: Moderation in everything. Except laughter.


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## ianf0ster (Jan 26, 2020)

Ok, I meant that in general. I should have made it clear that I was not including the modern highly processed so-called 'vegetable oils' however 'natural' they may claim to be. Basically if you need a factory rather than just a kitchen to produce or prepare it, then it isn't something that we can't be sure that we evolved to eat.

I tend not to believe studies which claim things lie Saturated Fat 'clogging arteries with Cholesterol' when :
A). They appear to be disproved the Lipid figures of both myself and others. 
B). There are studies which show that those patients with higher LDL, who've had heart attacks or heart failure, actually live longer than those with so-called good levels of LDL. As is the case with women and with the over 65's.

It is true that different groups of people historically appear to have done well on either a High Carb or a High Protein High Fat way of eating - which may be partially genetic. But we 've had only a relatively short time to adapt to eating High Carb rather than a way of eating upon which the human race evolved our large brains, cooked meat, fish. marrow from bones  
- Perhaps in huge excess it might, but then so is almost any food or drink, even drinking too much water can kill you.
It may indeed be possible, at least in theory, to put Type2 Diabetes into remission on a HCLF diet - but only by starving for the rest of their life. 
I recall hearing about a doctor in the USA in the 1940s to 1970s  who 'cured' various diseases in his patients apparently with a High Carb very Low Fat diet.
He was accused of whipping his patients and admitted he did so - but only because they asked him to, it was the only way they could manage to keep to the diet!

If his claims and others of a similar nature (such as the physician of Senator McGovern of the original US Gov dietary guidelines) are to be beleived, then the dangers lie precisely with the 'moderate ways of eating' i.e. low Protein with equal Carbs and Fats.
Indeed when a single food items are manufactured with this combination, they are particularly easy to overindulge in e.g. Pizza, Doughnuts and various snacks.


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