# Dear Mr Trump



## Nomad722 (Aug 4, 2019)

So you want to build a wall to keep the Mexicans out which is going to cost millions, since you are a multi-billionaire, why don't you pay for it yourself.  In case you haven't noticed there is something called the sea on both sides of the United States, once your wall is built people will swim around like the Chinese used to before Hong Kong was handed back.  In addition people come for holidays by plane and don't go home but then you can always ban tourism.  By the way you have no right to criticize or mayors.  The only ones you criticized were left-wingers for knife crimes committed in various parts of the UK.  In case you haven't noticed far more people are killed by gun crimes in the US.  Funny how you never criticize them!  Personally I cannot stand Theresa May but at least she is well mannered and would not do that.  We all know about your racism.


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## mikeyB (Aug 5, 2019)

Ask Native Americans what waves of illegal immigrants can do.

And we don't need Brexit to stop non EU migration. Don't imagine that Brexit will stop migration, it won't. The prospect of Brexit hasn't changed non EU migration one jot.


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## Nomad722 (Aug 5, 2019)

I'm glad you all agree Brexit won't stop immigration.   America can no more stop migration (illegal or not) anymore than you can stop the English and the Irish from eating potatoes (quote by Alistair Cooke).


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## mikeyB (Aug 6, 2019)

Me too, Benny.


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## Nomad722 (Aug 6, 2019)

Benny G said:


> Of course immigration can be stopped, and yes, It does take a small amount of political effort, look to China, Japan, Poland and Hungary for inspiration.
> 
> I am English and I don't eat potatoes.



I am not sure what you mean?  In general people don't migrate to China or Japan, both have strict immigration practices.


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## ypauly (Aug 7, 2019)

https://twitter.com/MigrationWatch/status/1158696844165357570?s=19


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## mikeyB (Aug 8, 2019)

As climate change occurs, and long term droughts affect African countries, and, come to think Australia, migration is bound to increase, as it has since time immemorial. When there weren't as many humans on the planet, that didn't matter very much, apart form our dark skins turning white as we moved north. If you can't grow food where you live, you go somewhere where you can.

In any event, we need controlled migration if only to replace the population, because not enough children are being born. The birth rate in the UK is 1.7 children per woman, and lower in some European countries. That isn't enough people to support an ageing population, and that is a situation which has to be addressed somehow. You can't make people breed. Not when you limit child benefits to two children. China realised this so abandoned their one child policy, and are now paying more benefits to women who have more children. As has been said on this thread, immigration is not an option for China, because nobody with any sense wants to live there.

That is why it is a fantasy to stop immigration completely. The country would slowly grind to a halt.


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## mikeyB (Aug 9, 2019)

I agree, Benny. I just don’t see that happening here, though. It works in an authoritarian society like China, but the low birth rate seems to be embedded cultural phenomenon across Europe. It happens as developing countries develop. If you don’t need lots of kids to help you till the land, rather than one guy in a tractor, you won’t have kids. They are a liability.


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## Benny G (Aug 9, 2019)

The world is massively overpopulated, the unprecedented expansion of the human race   is a huge problem. Having any children at all adds to the cost for the planet and environment and yes each additional birth is a liability.

It is interesting that you show birthrates falling as countries develop. It seems that it is wealth and education, not poverty, that limits the size of the family. 
So the incoming immigrants will adapt to western wealth and adopt the same low birthrate and add to the aging population. Immigration is not a magical solution, it's actually adding to the long term problem. 

You described the tractor driver doing the work of many field hands, this is also an issue as automation further reduces the 'need' for more population and underlines the issue of human redundancy. 

As exponential human birthrates cannot be maintained, due to the limits of finite resources, populations must be managed. 

The Western experiment to import foreign populations and cultures to replace our own is well underway. It is very sad that we are only offered cultural suicide and sociatal replacement as the final solution to the 'Western aging population problem' 
There are much better solutions.


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## mikeyB (Aug 9, 2019)

Cultural suicide? That's a bit strong. Not the cultural suicide that Harold's defeat at Hastings led to, for sure. We now eat 'pork' from pigs. We eat 'beef' from cattle. (Incidentally, the Norman French were descended from Vikings). The biggest ever import of a foreign population and culture. it's not a modern thing, for sure.

And what about importing German Kings? The first three Georges, for whom English was a second language, led to our current constitutional monarchy and parliament. That may seem a long time ago. but Queen Victoria's language in the nursery was German. They were disliked as nasty German interlopers to begin with.

Foreign cultures don't replace ours, they add to it. Always have, always will.


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## Andy HB (Aug 9, 2019)

"Foreign cultures don't replace ours, they add to it. Always have, always will."

Totally 100% agree with that.


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## Benny G (Aug 10, 2019)

My neighbours used to be British but they have mostly moved and been replaced by foreign people. To be honest most of my friends and neighbours don't speak English as a first language. I don't see this 'adding to British culture' that you mention, anywhere. Separate cultures, like oil and water, do not mix.
Look at London, Birmingham, and Bradford; perhaps, your rose coloured spectacles need replacing. The replacement is well under way. Historically immigration to Britain has no precedent.
Britain has always been an emigrant nation, not an immigrant one. The colonisation of North America and Canada, Australia and New Zealand are prime examples showing the direction of population movement. And the impact upon native people and cultures of mass uncontrolled immigration. If we need immigrants I would welcome home some of our colonial cousins.


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## Eddy Edson (Aug 10, 2019)

Benny G said:


> If we need immigrants I would welcome home some of our colonial cousins.



Not until climate change has done something to fix your weather, sorry. Also not until you've done something about all the poxy chain cafes and restaurants which seem to infest the country - the kind of thing you should only find in airports, train stations and tourist areas


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## Andy HB (Aug 10, 2019)

My experience of people who have moved to our country is more positive than Benny G portrays.

I know a person who came here with almost nothing. Who, through the kindness of others, was able to get some cleaning jobs. She then started caring for people, the elderly and disabled before moving on to being a self employed child minder. Then, to see if she could contribute more spent three years training as a radiotherapist with the nhs.

Meanwhile, she gained her British Citizenship.

This is a small part of her story just before I met and married her. She returned to child minding when the Nhs failed to offer her a suitable job. She is now looking after her elderly mother whilst also refurbishing flats and houses.

She is someone who is university educated who puts her hand to most things when they crop up. She is the kind of person we should welcome in this country.

These days, she is feeling very insecure with what is going on. A country that she used to be very happy contributing towards. Because she is often subjected to the kind of xenophobic comments that are now are becoming even more prevalent, she is now thinking of leaving.

Our country will be poorer if people like her are forced to leave.


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## Docb (Aug 10, 2019)

Benny, don't forget, there are a lot of born and bred, English people you would not want living next door to you.  Stereotyping is never helpful.


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## nonethewiser (Aug 10, 2019)

mikeyB said:


> Foreign cultures don't replace ours, they add to it. Always have, always will.



That is so true, we should never forget that.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Aug 10, 2019)

I was listening to a radio programme a week or so ago that gave many examples of our language in different parts of the country which is inflected by Danish and French, (who we often are told were ‘invaders’ and ‘enemies’ but whom much of social and archaeological history shows us living peaceably and cooperatively alongside). 

Often it depends on the narrative, who is telling it and whether their aim is to divide and create enmity, or celebrate diversity and mutual cooperation. 

Even ‘Anglo saxon’ stems from a combination of different peoples... the Angles and the Saxons. 

I’m going to close this thread, as it seems to be rather circular in nature now.


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