# How will you vote in the AV referendum?



## Northerner (Apr 5, 2011)

Just wondering how forum members plan to vote in the forthcoming Alternative Vote referendum?


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## Robster65 (Apr 5, 2011)

Stehen Fry urged me to vote for AV. So I read up on it and would urge others to find out as much as poss before voting. It can make a big difference to the outcome of elections. 

THere's pros and cons. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum,_2011

I'm gonna vote in favour of it because it's a step in the right direction.

Rob


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## novorapidboi26 (Apr 5, 2011)

Sounds good to me.............


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## AlisonM (Apr 5, 2011)

I'd vote yes, but I'm up here not down there and we already have a version of it. It's not perfect, but it's better than first past the post ever was.


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## Copepod (Apr 5, 2011)

Very much looking forward to voting in my first ever referendum, as I was too young for the say / leave EEC referendum in 1970s, and living in England, but not London when referenda for national & London assemblies were held. 

However, I'm also in favour of private voting, and refuse to tell anyone how I intend to vote or have voted. I always wish there were more encouragement to people to vote per se rather than who / which party to vote for - AV might achieve that.


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## mcdonagh47 (Apr 5, 2011)

AlisonM said:


> I'd vote yes, but I'm up here not down there and we already have a version of it. It's not perfect, but it's better than first past the post ever was.



The referendum is for voting for the UK parliament, so it surely covers Haggisland as well ?


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## mcdonagh47 (Apr 5, 2011)

Copepod said:


> Very much looking forward to voting in my first ever referendum, as I was too young for the say / leave EEC referendum in 1970s, and living in England, but not London when referenda for national & London assemblies were held.
> 
> However, I'm also in favour of private voting, and refuse to tell anyone how I intend to vote or have voted. I always wish there were more encouragement to people to vote per se rather than who / which party to vote for - AV might achieve that.



We don't have "private voting" in this country. Your voter number is put on the counterfoil of the voting slip you are given so that how you voted can be known at a later date. 
Rumour says a couple of months after an election, Special Branch or M15 pop in and collate who voted Communist, BNP, Al Qaeda etc  ????


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## Andy HB (Apr 5, 2011)

Copepod said:


> Very much looking forward to voting in my first ever referendum, as I was too young for the say / leave EEC referendum in 1970s, and living in England, but not London when referenda for national & London assemblies were held.
> 
> However, I'm also in favour of private voting, and refuse to tell anyone how I intend to vote or have voted. I always wish there were more encouragement to people to vote per se rather than who / which party to vote for - AV might achieve that.



I'd also like to see tactical voting knocked on the head. I have always voted for the person I wanted rather than against someone I didn't. AV may help deal with that (although no doubt some clever types can work out a way to manipulate even that!).


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## Copepod (Apr 5, 2011)

mcdonagh47 said:


> We don't have "private voting" in this country. Your voter number is put on the counterfoil of the voting slip you are given so that how you voted can be known at a later date.
> Rumour says a couple of months after an election, Special Branch or M15 pop in and collate who voted Communist, BNP, Al Qaeda etc  ????



Yes, I know there are serial numbers on the slips, but that doesn't mean I have to volunteer information to the people with rosettes waiting outside poling station. And, booths combined with careful folding of ballot paper means no-one can look over my shoulder.


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## mcdonagh47 (Apr 5, 2011)

Andy HB said:


> I'd also like to see tactical voting knocked on the head. I have always voted for the person I wanted rather than against someone I didn't. AV may help deal with that (although no doubt some clever types can work out a way to manipulate even that!).



AV will facilitate tactical voting e.g. I don't want to "X" win so I am putting "Y" as my second choice. In the recent Aussie election one of the King makers who decided who should govern, actually came Third or Fourth in the first round of the election but emerged as winner on the fourth count becasue of tactical voting by the two major parties,


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## AlisonM (Apr 5, 2011)

mcdonagh47 said:


> The referendum is for voting for the UK parliament, so it surely covers Haggisland as well ?



It does, but I don't vote in UK elections. Westmonster's naught to dae wi me these days. When I was in London I regarded myself as an expat and only voted in local council elections. Silly, I know.


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## Andy HB (Apr 5, 2011)

mcdonagh47 said:


> AV will facilitate tactical voting e.g. I don't want to "X" win so I am putting "Y" as my second choice. In the recent Aussie election one of the King makers who decided who should govern, actually came Third or Fourth in the first round of the election but emerged as winner on the fourth count becasue of tactical voting by the two major parties,



True, but atleast one can vote for the person you want first. 

Then, I suppose by its very nature you can then say that you prefer candidate B over C or D. In that, you're right it is tactical. But at least it is slightly more honest.


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## AlisonM (Apr 5, 2011)

Copepod said:


> Yes, I know there are serial numbers on the slips, but that doesn't mean I have to volunteer information to the people with rosettes waiting outside poling station. And, booths combined with careful folding of ballot paper means no-one can look over my shoulder.



It doesn't make much difference what you do with your ballot paper in the booth, the parties can still find out who voted and how. Dear old HMG keeps records of the number of votes returned for each candidate, including the numbers on the ballot papers and how many papers were spoiled. Believe me, they all know how you vote.


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## Monica (Apr 5, 2011)

For reasons already explained, I won't be voting.

If I was allowed, I'd be voting for it.


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## Copepod (Apr 5, 2011)

AlisonM said:


> It doesn't make much difference what you do with your ballot paper in the booth, the parties can still find out who voted and how. Dear old HMG keeps records of the number of votes returned for each candidate, including the numbers on the ballot papers and how many papers were spoiled. Believe me, they all know how you vote.



Yes, parties can find out how you vote, but neighbours can't, if you hide your paper in the booth. If you spoil your ballot paper with words, they usually get read out at count, to be heard by candidates, which can be helpful to getting your opinion heard.


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## Robster65 (Apr 5, 2011)

Although voting privacy (if not complete anonymity) is sacred, I like to hear other people's political leanings and arguments for or against. It helps to hone and maybe modify my own views by gaining a wider viewpoint.
If we all kept our opinions secret, we may see the world through a very narrow viewpoint. I think it's good to encourage debate and discussion, including personal political leanigns.

Rob


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## FM001 (Apr 5, 2011)

It will be a yes vote from me.


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## mcdonagh47 (Apr 5, 2011)

AlisonM said:


> It does, but I don't vote in UK elections. Westmonster's naught to dae wi me these days. When I was in London I regarded myself as an expat and only voted in local council elections. Silly, I know.



If you don't vote in the AV referendum you will be allowing the English, Welsh and Irish to decide an important aspect of Scotland's National Life  - it seems an odd way to assert Scotland's right to self-determination !


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## AlisonM (Apr 5, 2011)

mcdonagh47 said:


> If you don't vote in the AV referendum you will be allowing the English, Welsh and Irish to decide an important aspect of Scotland's National Life  - it seems an odd way to assert Scotland's right to self-determination !



Great theory, but not when you're an expat living in London. I used to spoil the ballot papers instead by stamping a great big SNP symbol on the papers. I couldn't bring myself to vote tory, the liberals are a wishy washy waste of time and I despise New Labour.


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## katie (Apr 5, 2011)

mcdonagh47 said:


> If you don't vote in the AV referendum you will be allowing the English, Welsh and Irish to decide an important aspect of Scotland's National Life  - it seems an odd way to assert Scotland's right to self-determination !



Have to agree with that.

I voted yes.


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## Nuttyal (Apr 5, 2011)

I'll be voting NO!

I don't want anything to do with politicians entering Parliament through the side and back doors!

If the non-voting electorate got off their backsides to vote, then there wouldn't be any need to change the voting system.

UK government should do what happens in Australia and make voting compulsory.  If you don't vote then you're prosecuted.

"First past the post" has worked for centuries.

It's up to the minority political parties to work harder with the electorate to get their votes.

Backdoor politics is not the way forward!


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## Old Holborn (Apr 5, 2011)

Nuttyal said:


> UK government should do what happens in Australia and make voting compulsory.


 


If MP's can abstain from voting so can I.


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## heasandford (Apr 5, 2011)

Robster65 said:


> Although voting privacy (if not complete anonymity) is sacred, I like to hear other people's political leanings and arguments for or against. It helps to hone and maybe modify my own views by gaining a wider viewpoint.
> If we all kept our opinions secret, we may see the world through a very narrow viewpoint. I think it's good to encourage debate and discussion, including personal political leanigns.
> 
> Rob


Straightforward and sensible - I agree with you.

The people outside ahould never ask what you voted, only who you are and where you live - I may be naive but I find them polite usually. Does HMG really have the time to see who's voted what? And surely tactical voting has to be seriously clever to work, bit like gambling?

I'm a yes too!


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## mcdonagh47 (Apr 5, 2011)

Nuttyal said:


> I'll be voting NO!
> 
> I don't want anything to do with politicians entering Parliament through the side and back doors!
> 
> ...



1. If the non-voting electorate got off their backsides to vote there would be an even more pressing need to make sure at that all/most votes counted for something.
2. Australia is one of the few countries to already have the AV system that is proposed in the Referendum.
3. "First Past the post" hasn't worked for centuries in Britain. It was only introduced by the Third Reform Act in 1884 (the Liberals again !). Previously to that we had multiple votes in multiple member constituencies ( a form of PR) for six hundred years.


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## Robster65 (Apr 5, 2011)

And of course, most voters were instructed who to vote for by their employers/landlords who were possibly also their MPs. And women couldn't vote until early in the last century. 

The whole parliament is evolved from the class system, with the intention of retaining is as it was. It's only social changes and pressures that have brought about today's form of democracy, with this latest referendum being another step towards true democracy.

It does seem to be a good compromise. 

Rob


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## ypauly (Apr 5, 2011)

Robster65 said:


> And of course, most voters were instructed who to vote for by their employers/landlords who were possibly also their MPs. And women couldn't vote until early in the last century.
> 
> The whole parliament is evolved from the class system, with the intention of retaining is as it was. It's only social changes and pressures that have brought about today's form of democracy, with this latest referendum being another step towards true democracy.
> 
> ...



I don't think we would ever see a true democracy! Think about it, a parliament that does what the people that elected them wanted.

1st thing that comes to mind is the death sentence would return.


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## squidge63 (Apr 5, 2011)

Well I shall be voting *NO* I am quite happy with first past the post ..


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## Old Holborn (Apr 6, 2011)

ypauly;246658
1st thing that comes to mind is the death sentence would return.[/quote said:
			
		

> I hope not.


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## Caroline (Apr 6, 2011)

I think if more people voted we would get a more representative government. If everyone that can vote, voted it would make a real difference. More people than ever are eligible for things like postal votes so there is not even the excuse of not being able to get to a polling station.


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## mcdonagh47 (Apr 6, 2011)

Caroline said:


> I think if more people voted we would get a more representative government. If everyone that can vote, voted it would make a real difference. .



If the extra voters split along current party affiliations it wouldn't make any difference except that even more voters would be disenfranchised by the First Post the Post system.
If as, psephologists suggest, most of the missing voters favour Labour then we would have Labour as permanently the largest party and possible government.
Getting a 90% turnout would make the need for  Electoral Reform absolutely necessary.


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## shiv (Apr 6, 2011)

I would except I have no idea where my voting card has gone. I've lived in so many places over the past couple of years it could be anywhere.


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## AlisonM (Apr 6, 2011)

shiv said:


> I would except I have no idea where my voting card has gone. I've lived in so many places over the past couple of years it could be anywhere.



If you have ID such as a passport or driving licence and proof of your address, that should be all you need. Polling cards arrived here just this week so maybe yours haven't been sent yet.


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## shiv (Apr 6, 2011)

Thanks - problem is, as I say, I have moved around a lot and currently have no proof of my address as I lodge and therefore do not pay bills to here. Bank and phone stuff all goes to my mum's still and I am not yet registered with a GP. They have had their cards, but mine wasn't with them. So who knows where it is.


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## kojack (Apr 6, 2011)

Experienced this proposed system when I lived in Scotland. 
If I want a perpetrator of terminological inexactitudes in Westminster, I'll treat him/her/ it as a first past the post slave to the civil service.

I thought this was a diabetes support forum. Sad that this thread has been introduced.


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## AlisonM (Apr 6, 2011)

kojack said:


> Experienced this proposed system when I lived in Scotland.
> If I want a perpetrator of terminological inexactitudes in Westminster, I'll treat him/her/ it as a first past the post slave to the civil service.
> 
> I thought this was a diabetes support forum. Sad that this thread has been introduced.



It is indeed a Diabetes support forum and I fail to see how this particular thread negates that in any way. Not all of our life is taken up by diabetes, we have other interests too and I can't see it as any sort of problem that we choose to discuss them in here.


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## Ellie Jones (Apr 6, 2011)

Mind you polititians are probably the main cause of apathy amongst voters...

I have never spoken to a candidate nor one of their party repersentives asking me to vote for them  It seems that the voter has to seek out the information required on individual candidates...  

I remember has a child the car with the mega phone crawling the streets with vote for me!  There repersentives with full hands off leaflets to pass out, knocking on the door all trying to convince you they and their party was the one to vote for...  But no more I very much doubt with the council elections I will even get a leaflet shoved through the door!

And last election, didn't get asked at the polling door what I intended to vote nor who I voted for as there wasn't any political party member stood outside to ask me!

In the local elections I really don't know who to vote for as not sure where my political allegence lay I could be persuaded...  As I don't know who to vote for and it's very doubtful that anybody is going to knock on my door to explain to me why I would benefit voting for them!  I wasn't going to vote same as I've done in the past!

But this time I feed up having no voice or say, so decided that I will probably go down to vote and write on my  voting slip 'none of the above as nobody has asked for my vote!'

As to the AV ref, well looking at the information it's not going to make that much difference apart from avoiding what we've got now an hung parliment and some people getting voted in by a couple of votes!

As to seeing this thread on a diabetic forum being sad, sorry I don't think so as for somebody like me who really doesn't understand politics that well due to apathy by our local political parties it's give information and views that I don't have access to!


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## Nuttyal (Apr 6, 2011)

I agree Alison,
Indeed the forum is there to give support and help to others who suffer from diabetes and need that support. Also, we do have our lives outside of diabetes and we should be free to air our opinions on other matters within the forum if raised.
We should not let diabetes control our lives!


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## Copepod (Apr 6, 2011)

shiv said:


> Thanks - problem is, as I say, I have moved around a lot and currently have no proof of my address as I lodge and therefore do not pay bills to here. Bank and phone stuff all goes to my mum's still and I am not yet registered with a GP. They have had their cards, but mine wasn't with them. So who knows where it is.



You need to know where you're on the Electoral Roll & which polling station to use (unless you've arranged a postal vote); you don't need a voting card - If you can remember where you last voted, then go there. Otherwise, probably too late to get on electoral roll where you're living now before May elections.


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## AlisonM (Apr 6, 2011)

Copepod said:


> You need to know where you're on the Electoral Roll & which polling station to use (unless you've arranged a postal vote); you don't need a voting card - If you can remember where you last voted, then go there. Otherwise, probably too late to get on electoral roll where you're living now before May elections.



Oh yes, good point. You can call your local council offices and ask them where the polling station is for your street. It's often a school or church hall nearby.


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## mcdonagh47 (Apr 6, 2011)

AlisonM said:


> It is indeed a Diabetes support forum and I fail to see how this particular thread negates that in any way. Not all of our life is taken up by diabetes, we have other interests too and I can't see it as any sort of problem that we choose to discuss them in here.



....in the "Off the subject" section perhaps but not the general support  board ?


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## mcdonagh47 (Apr 6, 2011)

kojack said:


> Experienced this proposed system when I lived in Scotland.
> QUOTE]
> 
> No you didn't.
> ...


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