# Evening exercise



## Deleted member 33898 (Aug 18, 2021)

Hi. I was hoping someone might have a similar routine to me and has it working well. My travelling to and from work everyday means I'm up about 630am and leave the house at 730am. I get home between 645pm and 730pm depending on traffic and in bed by 11pm so I feel like I have to eat dinner soon as I get home. I then exercise after. I have pre meal fast acting insulin. I feel like it's quite tight for fitting everything in before going to bed. I find I can't exercise until least an hour after because my levels just won't come up and sometimes I have to abandon exercise altogether. I have struggled to think of an effective plan for carb or insulin changes. So far I haven't tweaked the insulin and have been simply eating extra carbs after exercise. I have found levels go up too high after taking an extra snack and this continues over night or I get lows over night with hypos in the middle of the night and before breakfast. I aim to do two 45 minute strength sessions a week and three 30 minute sessions of jogging. I can do some of this on the weekend but it's the weekdays that are causing the problem. There have been occasions were I have had to stop mid session because levels have dropped too low and they aren't recovering as quick as I'd like. Have looked up alot online and some tips from my clinic but hearing some similar experience might help give me some confidence. Thank you and hope this makes sense.


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## admc26 (Aug 18, 2021)

Hi @jazzchicken. I’m sure people can provide you with some more detailed advice (am no expert when it comes to exercise!) but have you thought about potentially giving slightly less insulin for your evening meal? This could get rid of the need for you to have a snack before exercise. Your blood sugars would likely be slightly raised before you start exercising but I imagine they would stabilise once you’d done your workout.

My consultant also once mentioned to me that your blood sugars do different things depending on what exercises you’re doing. He mentioned that strength and conditioning can have the tendency to raise your blood sugar before causing them to drop whilst cardio exercises (like your jogging) will simply cause them to drop. This might be something to bear in mind depending on what exercises you’re doing on a particular day.

As I say though, I’m sure there are others who are more experienced with BGs and exercising (I only do a few runs and haven’t been in a gym for 18 months!)


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## Deleted member 33898 (Aug 18, 2021)

Hey thanks for the reply. Yes the reduction of insulin might be the key. Especially if the levels don't wanna go up quick enough after dinner and I have a short window to exercise. I also have to think about not losing weight at the same time(I lost alot before diagnosis), so im considering adding extra carbs to my meal but don't adjust . I guess that would work out the same as reducing really? Thinking if I divide up what I've been eating by insulin I've been matching it with ,then add the extra carbs without matching the insulin. They did give me rough ratios at my recent appointment but I already know the lunch time ratio isnt correct. 

Funny with the strength routine I do my levels drop , might be more cardio than I thought. 

Thanks again


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## nonethewiser (Aug 18, 2021)

Exercise first dinner after, even then lily need to reduce insulin dose, worth try.


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## Inka (Aug 18, 2021)

I used to go swimming after my evening meal @jazzchicken I reduced my mealtime insulin by 1/3 and also ate a small sweetish snack before exercising and kept glucose beside the pool if needed. You’d have to experiment to see what worked for you.

If you don’t want to reduce your mealtime insulin, you can keep that the same and eat extra carbs at your meal, as you suggest above.


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## Deleted member 33898 (Aug 19, 2021)

Thanks, that sounds like a plan. I guess I just have to try. Worse case scenario my levels are too high after


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## Lucyr (Aug 19, 2021)

If I go swimming after dinner I just halve the dinner insulin (fast acting only) which prevents hypos for me


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## Deleted member 33898 (Aug 19, 2021)

Lucyr said:


> If I go swimming after dinner I just halve the dinner insulin (fast acting only) which prevents hypos for me


I take it you are at a stage were you carb count ? Do you calculate how much you need for food and then just half for the exercise ? Sorry if this sounds like an obvious question


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## Inka (Aug 19, 2021)

Yes @jazzchicken you’d have to carb count, as you’re no doubt doing anyway as a Type 1. As an example, if your ratio is 1:10g carbs and you’re going to have 60g carbs for your evening meal, you’d take 6 units normally but if you were exercising and wanted to half the insulin you’d only take half of that 6 units - ie 3 units for the 60g carbs.

Count your carbs, calculate your normal dose, then apply whatever exercise insulin reduction you’ve planned on - a half, a third, whatever works best for you.


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## Lucyr (Aug 19, 2021)

jazzchicken said:


> I take it you are at a stage were you carb count ? Do you calculate how much you need for food and then just half for the exercise ? Sorry if this sounds like an obvious question


Yes I do carb count, work out the total dose, then halve it. If you’re not yet carb counting you could experiment with taking a bit less and see what happens though.


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## Deleted member 33898 (Aug 19, 2021)

Just an update if anyone is interested. So I added 20g carbs to my dinner then jogged hour and half later when levels were safe and rising. I found by time I had finished they were falling down and reached 4 mmol, so I reached for a snack. Had an apple and handful of mixed nuts. What occurred half an hour later was a another jump in BG. I took my finger prick test there before bed and there sitting at 10.5 mmol. I can't see it being the snack alone as it was under 15g of carbs. Is it possible the dinner I had was still being digested. Frustrating is all I can say


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## nonethewiser (Aug 20, 2021)

Possibly mixed nuts,slow to break down.


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## Inka (Aug 20, 2021)

jazzchicken said:


> Just an update if anyone is interested. So I added 20g carbs to my dinner then jogged hour and half later when levels were safe and rising. I found by time I had finished they were falling down and reached 4 mmol, so I reached for a snack. Had an apple and handful of mixed nuts. What occurred half an hour later was a another jump in BG. I took my finger prick test there before bed and there sitting at 10.5 mmol. I can't see it being the snack alone as it was under 15g of carbs. Is it possible the dinner I had was still being digested. Frustrating is all I can say



Various options there. Next time eat a small snack and monitor eg 5g carbs, because sometimes exercise can cause a rebound high. Or only have an extra 15g carbs for dinner and eat a Dextro tablet at intervals on your run.


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## helli (Aug 20, 2021)

I have found the only way to do heavy exercise (running or fast cycling as opposed to walking) is to ensure I have no insulin on board which means not exercising within 4 hours of a bolus dose. This means I eat after exercise not before.
Pre breakfast is the best time because I have no bolus on board and the blood sugar fall due to the activity counteracts the rise due to dawn phenomenon.

I appreciate this is not very helpful with your constraints, @jazzchicken. Do you have any freedom to adjust your working hours?

MAybe an alternative could be to adjust your exercise. Interval training, typically raises levels. Is it possible to do short sprints with gaps rather than a longer jog?

Another thing which maybe worth experimenting with is to add a small amount of sugary juice or squash to your water bottle so you are constantly taking on carbs to keep your levels raised rather than treating them with a single hit when they get low.

The thing us that we are all different so you will need to experiment to find what works best for your body and your life.


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## Deleted member 33898 (Aug 21, 2021)

Inka said:


> Various options there. Next time eat a small snack and monitor eg 5g carbs, because sometimes exercise can cause a rebound high. Or only have an extra 15g carbs for dinner and eat a Dextro tablet at intervals on your run.


Not a bad idea. I recently purchased some tablets for hypo treatment but I'm guessing in moderation they can be used to keep things topped up


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## Inka (Aug 21, 2021)

jazzchicken said:


> Not a bad idea. I recently purchased some tablets for hypo treatment but I'm guessing in moderation they can be used to keep things topped up



Absolutely! They’re to treat hypos and to use if needed during exercise.


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## Deleted member 33898 (Aug 21, 2021)

helli said:


> I have found the only way to do heavy exercise (running or fast cycling as opposed to walking) is to ensure I have no insulin on board which means not exercising within 4 hours of a bolus dose. This means I eat after exercise not before.
> Pre breakfast is the best time because I have no bolus on board and the blood sugar fall due to the activity counteracts the rise due to dawn phenomenon.
> 
> I appreciate this is not very helpful with your constraints, @jazzchicken. Do you have any freedom to adjust your working hours?
> ...


That's very helpful info thanks. It would be difficult to change my schedule, unless I only exercised on weekends. But I may well try those suggestions of changing my exercise , I read somewhere about doing short sprints can raise levels. Possibly could do that whilst jogging to raise levels ? I doubt it's that exact but I could try. The squash idea isn't bad, never thought of that.


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## trophywench (Aug 21, 2021)

The effect on the body of exercise can be felt for approx 48hrs thereafter.

So whatever is happening right now is not only because of the exercise you just did!


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## trophywench (Aug 21, 2021)

Now just a question, so please don't be offended by it.

Did you exercise every single working day before you were diagnosed with Type 1 and if so, for what reason?  eg are you aiming for next year's Commonwealth Games, or if not, why every single day?


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## Deleted member 33898 (Sep 9, 2021)

trophywench said:


> Now just a question, so please don't be offended by it.
> 
> Did you exercise every single working day before you were diagnosed with Type 1 and if so, for what reason?  eg are you aiming for next year's Commonwealth Games, or if not, why every single day?


Hi , Apologies I didn't see this message until now. 

I don't think I mentioned in the original post but I would exercise 5 days a week, 3 of which are weekdays. This was simply just to hit a certain amount of exercise per week, not training for anything. I feel its even more important now that my new job is in an office. I figured that amount of exercise is pretty standard.


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## helli (Sep 9, 2021)

@jazzchicken - I tend to exercise about the same frequency as you - I don't think it is standard but there is no reason not to, especially if you feel good about it.
You don't have to be training for the Commonwealth Games to want to exercise regularly. 

As @trophywench mentioned, the effects of exercise can last up to 48 hours so some people will reduce their basal for that period (unless they are using Tresiba which is longer lasting and less flexible). As there are rarely 48 hours between your exercise (like me), I suspect your normal basal dose will take the exercise into consideration. I work my basal dose the opposite way - increase it if I _haven't _exercised in the last 48 hours. 

ON an exercise/muscle recovery thing (nothing to do with diabetes), it is worth making sure you give your muscles time to rest. This can be as simple as alternating your exercise - focus on arms one day and legs the next or, in my case, vary the exercise. I do something like climbing once a week, spin class twice a week and general gym work out in between. I will go for a 45 minute walk on my rest days to get me away from my desk and get some fresh air.

(Sorry, just wanted to emphasise that there is nothing wrong with regular exercise even if you are not training for a specific event.)


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## Deleted member 33898 (Sep 9, 2021)

unfortunately I am no where near what I was doing before. I have a very tough time trusting myself to make changes. I know everyone keeps saying it all depends on the individual but I have found myself constantly checking info online and never acting on suggestions. I appreciate the suggestions on here and hopefully sometime I'll act on them properly. For now its mainly walking the dog.


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## helli (Sep 9, 2021)

@jazzchicken enjoy your time with your dog. It's great exercise with someone who doesn't complain and provides lots of affection in the great outdoors. You don't get that in the gym


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## trophywench (Sep 9, 2021)

..... and I  was just trying to establish whether X amount of exercise was the norm for you, or whether it was a new thing you'd never done before, is all!

Any exercise is always going to be better than none anyway.  If you do want to do more because it makes you feel good - then you do have to try to make your diabetes fit in with however much or little of it, you want to do.  Nobody else can do this for you and nobody is asking you to make massive changes to dosing but you have got to be able to make the changes you need because exercise is merely one of the approx 42 things which may affect the blood glucose - whether it's our (monthly) hormone surges and reductions, getting a cold, the weather being freezing cold or boiling hot, being pregnant or in the menopause, having some other illness, having an accident and breaking a bone - doses of insulin your body needs don't stay the same for ever!


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