# northerner



## bev (Mar 23, 2009)

Hi Northerner,
I was just wondering how the poetry book was getting along? Alex asked me yesterday when he could buy one!Bev


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## Northerner (Mar 23, 2009)

Hi bev, 

It'll be a while yet, I fear! I don't have enough material yet, but I do have a lot of ideas, so I jot down the odd line or phrase and hope to cobble them all together some time in the future! I sent off some examples to 'Sweet' and 'Balance' but haven't heard anything back yet. I thought I might set up a website, as I'm currently trying to expand my skills by learning how to do it!

Say 'thank you' to Alex for his interest!


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## nicky_too (Mar 24, 2009)

Northerner, if you'd like some help with building that website, I wouldn't mind helping out if I can.


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## Northerner (Mar 24, 2009)

nicky_too said:


> Northerner, if you'd like some help with building that website, I wouldn't mind helping out if I can.



That's very kind of you, will let you know! I'm currently trying to learn XHTML and CSS. I've been a programmer for over 25 years, but on the big machines, and have always avoided web technology because it seemed to change on a daily basis! Early days yet, but one of my problems was what I might want to put on my website - now I have an idea!


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## katie (Mar 24, 2009)

I would be able to help too if you need it, I use CSS and PHP etc

What do you program in Northerner?


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## nicky_too (Mar 24, 2009)

Oh dear, looks like I'm way out of my league here...


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## Northerner (Mar 24, 2009)

katie said:


> I would be able to help too if you need it, I use CSS and PHP etc
> 
> What do you program in Northerner?



Thanks Katie - those are good skills to have!

I progam chiefly in a language called RPG IV, which has been around in various incarnations since the early '60s. It's an IBM business language - I used to write payroll and personnel systems and more recently financial services applications - pensions, bonds, life assurance etc. Even Microsoft used to use it as their main 'behind the scenes' business platform! The good thing about it was that things written in it were very stable over a long period of time - I have worked on updating stuff written in 1983! But everyone today wants Windows networks and browser style applications, despite the huge holes in everything to do with Microsoft.

Basically, my main skills are becoming rapidly redundant so I'm trying to update them. My age counts against me too, now - I'm older and more experienced than many of the managers who might employ me, and a lot of them don't like that!

I started programming on a Sinclair ZX81!


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## Einstein (Mar 24, 2009)

Hi Northerner,

There was little wrong with the ZX81 except Sinclairs build quality and the keyboard... You certainly learnt what to do with memory in those days and being Z80 based meant you could technically have two 64KB pages of memory unlike the 6502 CPUs, of course the 6809 later on managed the memory pages so it appeared as though there was 128KB in one block.

At least with starting life on 8bit CPUs you learnt what memory was and usually how to code at a level lower than BASIC if you wanted to write anything of any size or with speed. I don't think there is anything wrong with assembler and moving around the CPU directly 

I guess my favourite platform was the NCR 8250 mini (? memory serving correctly - we're back 25 years now!), boot strap loaded off tape, after you'de set the bootstrap sequence manually, then two fixed 14" disks and two top loadeders - I am guessing at around 10-20Mb each!

The system had a whopping 256KB RAM and supported 12 terminals over RS-232 and the system ran COBOL, what a language I loved it, get the initial setup wrong e.g. database size or miss field off and you were in BIG trouble, but it tought you to plan and document what you were about to write.

I rebuilt the whole system, it was wire wrapped from top to bottom and was housed in a 72U rack cabinet.

My first computer was a UK101 6502 based, 1KB RAM (expanded to 4KB!!!), hex keypad and a two line 16 character seven segment LED display  Oh and only programmed in assembler, nothing higher level - again wire wrapped pin to pin! And OMG that was 31 years ago... I was 9 when my grandfather gave me that for my birthday.

I think from a memory management perspective, Apple with the original Macintosh takes the prize, 128KB with 400KB 3.5" floppy drive, OS loads, then application, full GUI OS, no low level command line overhead, running on 128KB RAM - the expanded version ran with 512KB. And for quite a few generations (all of the Motorola 680x0 series I recall) that same 400KB disk would boot and work no matter how complex the machine had become. Still run a MacBook Pro as one of my boxes today. I know it works and the Windows install on it under VM Ware was SO sweet - I keyed the license number, answered  5 further questions and it did EVERYTHING else with no intervention - why MS can't do that with their own OS's I don't know.

Today we have graphics cards with 1GB RAM - why and what for? I didn't know many people drove three or four hi-definition projectors from their home PC!

And people wonder why I smile when they say they build their own computers now.

Happy days...


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## Northerner (Mar 24, 2009)

Einstein said:


> Hi Northerner,
> 
> There was little wrong with the ZX81 except Sinclairs build quality and the keyboard... You certainly learnt what to do with memory in those days and being Z80 based meant you could technically have two 64KB pages of memory unlike the 6502 CPUs, of course the 6809 later on managed the memory pages so it appeared as though there was 128KB in one block.
> 
> At least with starting life on 8bit CPUs you learnt what memory was and usually how to code at a level lower than BASIC if you wanted to write anything of any size or with speed. I don't think there is anything wrong with assembler and moving around the CPU directly ...



Sir Clive was the reason why the British software industry was so good in the 80s and 90s - cheap little machines that needed a bit of work and ingenuity but gave lots of satisfaction! I discovered I liked programming when I found and fixed my first bug on the ZX81 - I typed in a program from a magazine and it didn't work. After a little investigation I discovered there was a semi-colon missing! Some of the problems I've fixed since then have been rather more complex!

I graduated to a ZX spectrum and bought a speech synthesiser - I taught it to speak in a Yorkshire accent! Being a linguist, I always saw programming as a creative use of language rather than a technical, maths-orientated subject. Happy days indeed!


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## katie (Mar 24, 2009)

Northerner said:


> Thanks Katie - those are good skills to have!
> 
> I progam chiefly in a language called RPG IV, which has been around in various incarnations since the early '60s. It's an IBM business language - I used to write payroll and personnel systems and more recently financial services applications - pensions, bonds, life assurance etc. Even Microsoft used to use it as their main 'behind the scenes' business platform! The good thing about it was that things written in it were very stable over a long period of time - I have worked on updating stuff written in 1983! But everyone today wants Windows networks and browser style applications, despite the huge holes in everything to do with Microsoft.
> 
> ...



hehe, I havent heard of the programming language RPG IV, but ive heard of the Sinclair ZX81  Ive got something similar at home, but i'm not sure why?!

Wow if you can write a payroll system you can make loads of money hehe.

My uni course is internet based, so I learn about PHP, CSS, XHTML, XML, AJAX etc.  I'm not very good at programming usually but web programming is more my thing.  I prefer making things look pretty though with CSS and photoshop


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## katie (Mar 24, 2009)

Northerner said:


> I graduated to a ZX spectrum



lol, that's what ive got at home:


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## Einstein (Mar 24, 2009)

My critique was purely of the keyboard and build quality of some units, realistically the cutting of corners to get the price so keen. The box itself worked well enough.

The UK101 base was around ?500 at the time and the ZX81 was somewhere around ?50 as a kit, although different processors, the ZX81 (a few years later) did plug into a standard TV and have a QWERTY keyboard (of sorts).

Personally I couldn't get on with programming, could do it, but didn't really get a kick out of it like many people I knew at the time, I always preferred hardware and working out what you could do behind the scenes, or at a very low level.

I'll leave you good people to commercial coding and web development - left me by a long time ago.

Now a Spectrum with a Yorkshire accent, to be heard I guess!


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## Northerner (Mar 24, 2009)

katie said:


> lol, that's what ive got at home:



Katie! That's older than you!


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## katie (Mar 24, 2009)

hehe, I randomly bought it when I was younger - think I thought it would make our old Spectrum work.  I'm old enough to remember playing on a spectrum when I was little 

Maybe I should see if it's worth anything


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## katie (Mar 24, 2009)

damn, it's worthless lol


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## katie (Mar 24, 2009)

what is that little keyboard actually for? ive never known since i bought it!

I used to play games on this:






but obviously it's different


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## Northerner (Mar 24, 2009)

That looks like the spectrum 128k, the last gasp of Sinclair computers before he tried making electric cars! 

The original spectrum had a system where you generated keywords by pressing a sequence of keys rather than typing in a word - the big joke was that to get the word 'ink' you had to press four keys!


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## Einstein (Mar 24, 2009)

Thought the QL - Quantum Leap was the final breath of Sir Clive in computing?

Around the same time as Sir Alan Sugar came out with the PCW boxes and their variation on a PC!


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## Northerner (Mar 24, 2009)

Einstein said:


> Thought the QL - Quantum Leap was the final breath of Sir Clive in computing?
> 
> Around the same time as Sir Alan Sugar came out with the PCW boxes and their variation on a PC!



I think the QL came out before the last spectrum, then Clive used the QL-style keyboard on the last spectrum. I've still got a QL somewhere in a box! I remember Sir Alan's machines with the totally non-standard 3" drives. And, unless memory is playing tricks on me - there was also a home computer called the Einstein back then!


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## katie (Mar 24, 2009)

Northerner said:


> That looks like the spectrum 128k, the last gasp of Sinclair computers before he tried making electric cars!
> 
> The original spectrum had a system where you generated keywords by pressing a sequence of keys rather than typing in a word - the big joke was that to get the word 'ink' you had to press four keys!



haha how silly.

Wow, this thread has become rather geeky


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## Einstein (Mar 24, 2009)

There was indeed a computer manufactured by Tatung called the Einstein - ran a variation of CP/M.

Not 110% sure of the evolution of the Quantum Leoper (so named, when you tipped the early ones upside down keys were known to drop off the keyboard)....

It really did have quircky drive 'the micro-drive' tape based memory serving correctly Northerner?

As for the Einstein the the PCW from Amstrad they both used the 3" drive, while there was the battle between the 3" and 3.5" formats.

Do you remember the Lynx? It ran FORTH - nice language, base about apex compared to basic! But pretty good.

Katie, geeky, no its a trip down memory lane for some who've been around perhaps too long - what is worrying is how my memory of 25 years ago is better than yesterday!


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## Northerner (Mar 24, 2009)

Einstein said:


> ...It really did have quircky drive 'the micro-drive' tape based memory serving correctly Northerner?
> 
> Do you remember the Lynx? It ran FORTH - nice language, base about apex compared to basic! But pretty good...



Yup, micro drives - also available for the spectrum if you spent a lot of extra cash. Clive sometimes tried to cut costs too far at the expense of usability I think. 

I do remember the Lynx and would have loved one! The Jupiter Ace also ran Forth and came with 2k of memory as opposed to the ZX81's 1k.

I think one of my funniest images of those days was the peripherals you could get from a company called Memotech for the zx81. They clipped together so you could end up, in theory, with a huge tower of 'extras' clipped onto the back that would cost you ten times the price of the computer! I think they also came out with their own computer, but memory is getting a little hazy.

I used to like going into WH Smiths and 'poking' the spectrums so that the keyboards would be disabled and with patterns running over the screen! Simple things! Great fun at that time - very boring now with pc's and consoles.


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## Einstein (Mar 24, 2009)

Don't think Memotech came out with their own box, but I remember daisychaining directly of the address and data busses of the Z80 CPU - and the drain on the power supply and the dear old 7805 5V DC regulator which got a little warm with all those 16KB memory expansion packs on the back!

I never could get into the Acorn line of computers, the Atom, beeb and Electron.. and sooo expensive, plus the cost of the expansion options.

The Dragon was an interesting proposition - odd, but... well enough said

As for peeking and poking I don't know if the youngsters today would know how to spell them, nevermind use them. So were were both vandals eh?

There was a poke high up on the Commodore 64 that could really screw the system up and for good 

Build quality due to cost cutting was the real downfall of Sinclair, they held such a strong position and lost it, mainly due to the impact of poor components/design to save a few pennies.

Doubt we'll be looking back with such fondness in 20 years time.

Imagine giving a 15 year old today a copy of CPW which over four issues and 20 pages of code to key in and as you said debug down to single character... they'd think we're mad!


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## Northerner (Mar 24, 2009)

Einstein said:


> ...I never could get into the Acorn line of computers, the Atom, beeb and Electron.. and sooo expensive, plus the cost of the expansion options.
> 
> The Dragon was an interesting proposition - odd, but... well enough said...



I'm with you on the Acorn/BBC stuff. I always thought it was a real con and far too expensive for the average family. I've got a Dragon 64, along with a commodore Vic20, commodore 64 and an Atari ST! All gathering dust in a box and virtually worthless... The competition at the time was fantastic - new machines coming out every other week! Always fancied an Oric Atmos. Remember MSX? Eee! Those were the days!


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## Einstein (Mar 24, 2009)

Ah the ST and the Amiga...

Yes, the Oric only just made it to market. MSX the Japanese standard - wizzy graphics for the time and you went for the manufacturer you wanted...

I loved Apple, having had an Apple II, II Europlus, IIe, IIc and IIGS - then to the Macs, of course not forgetting the Lisa! Well engineered and did what it said on the tin.

Have we covered them all yet?


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## Northerner (Mar 24, 2009)

Remember the Osbourne? All-in-one, suitcase sized with a 6 inch screen (ish). Weighed about 30 pounds! Look at laptops now! And do you remember the microwriter?


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## Einstein (Mar 24, 2009)

Ah the Osborne another CP/M based box 5.25" floppies, no HD memory serving correctly.

Microwriter - from TI? Not one I am too familiar with.

Keep 'em coming soon, we'll be on the Sharp and Casio programmable calculators/mini computers...


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## Northerner (Mar 25, 2009)

I think we missed out the Commodore Pet! And whatever happened to the transputer? And Ian Mcnaught-Davies? And what about those modems that you fitted a telephone receiver to? 

It really is astonishing how things have come on - I'm constantly in awe at the engineering involved in the hardware. Software's another matter. You'd think, with all the money some companies have, that they would produce good, robust, usable systems, but there is so much that is astonishingly poor. Take international banking for example - there is so much incompatibility in file formats and regulations that it can actually be impossible sometimes to connect a payment to an account. And don't get me started on Microsoft - when Windows 95 was released it had 20,000 known bugs! And because of Windows' domination, the whole world's systems are vulnerable to viruses and security flaws. 

We've seriously wandered off the point of this thread!


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## Einstein (Mar 25, 2009)

Transputer and Inmos was it? Acoustic couplers, creed teletypes and Prime minis...

I did a lot of work with modems and with Prestel many years ago.

Through my legal practice I know very well of system vulnerabilities and incompatability, if banking is bad, let's try healthcare, perhaps slightly more important if they can't access critical records accurately from another hospital through the schemes of the leaders of this great country... hmmm don't get me started there.

Without keep going back to Apple, I do think there are some critical points and first class lessons to be learnt.

First write an operating system as a self contained operating system, e.g. not one OS grafted on top of another, I'm unsure if Vista as trully an OS in its own right or if DOS is under there somethere, I recall that from 64bit XP life was a new OS - the first true GUI OS from MS.

Second, integrate tightly all the hardware for the system, when you have an open OS this becomes an issue, both Windows and Linux (all commercial flavours) have an issue in supporting all the hardware on the market. It's bad enough with the motherboard and the BIOS.

A leaf from Apples book, remove the BIOS layer and talk directly to the chip set and watch the speed increase. Running XP as a virtual machine on an Apple laptop is quicker than my dedicated Windows laptops.

Of course the achiles heal in all of this is the user, they want to choose and change what they have in their box. Laptops tighten the options as do the highly integrated motherboards, where all your I/O is built into the board.

Third party vendors can assist by developing and supporting their device drivers, unlike the few who hack something together and don't touch it again.

I'm staggered with the tales of some people that their network or USB attached printer won't work with Vista, fine with XP, but the manufacturer won't even release a generic update to support the new OS. I think this is criminal and in the age where we are trying to recycle everything to dump a printer which is quite tricky to recycle I understand just due to lack of driver is negligent.

As for the CBM PET, yes, a great little box, quirky interface for floppies and printers, IEEE488(?) and a bar to keep the top open when you were working inside it - like a bonnet!

Right, we're so off topic now, what was the original one about??? Or is this the topic?

Ah, sir it was about you and you chose the topic change, so under the rules of just a minute I don't think it was a true deviation


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## Northerner (Mar 25, 2009)

Where you cite Apple, I would also cite IBM midrange computers. Having worked on System/38 then AS/400 (iSeries, Series I, I5 - they change the name on a yearly basis these days!) for 25 years I found *ONE* bug in the operating system - and an obscure one at that. Full backwards compatibility too - still happily running stuff written in the early 80s. 

I caught on to how rubbish MS were when I bought my first pc: the machine (an IBM PS1) had DOS 6.0 installed. There was an issue with something, can't remember what, but it was recommended to upgrade to DOS 6.2. Like a good programmer, I took a back up of my stuff before installing, then installed 6.2. I found I then needed to restore something but _version 6.2 of MS backup couldn't restore something saved with version 6.0!!!!!_ How utterly crap can you get? And the bloated, lazy software MS keep producing just to make everyone upgrade their systems and hardware really bugs me too - not a fan, as you can tell!

As for Linux/Unix, that was always a bit of a non-starter with me -far too geeky! I did work on an IBM RS/6000 and the thing that astounded me was that it was possible for the OS to start eating into memory used by program code - so you could overwrite your applications with data...! Actually, I think that something similar used to happen with COBOL on some earlier machines if you missed the hyphen out of 'working-storage' and tried to compile!

Perhaps this should be renamed the Northerner and Einstein 'Those were the days' thread!


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## Einstein (Mar 25, 2009)

I was doing some work for IBM many years ago, HP provided me with a very nice scientific calculator, still in my desk draw works very well- reverse polish notation  When I pointed out IBM had provided me with a calculator a few days later a load of IBM boxes arrived at my chambers, a fax was sent through - 'here is the calculator you wanted!'

Yes, the old IBM kit AS/400 System/36, 38 minis were a little different in the league than was thinking of, RS/6000 was a great piece of kit, The Patents Office had the multi-processor Linux box at the time, name escapes me, IBM delivered and RS/6000 in their every understated way as a dumb terminal to this multi-processor box, could have been a good job for MS but they didn't trust it!

Linux has a few major problems to me, the only version I like that is owned by a real company is SUSE, however, installing an application designed for redhat (RPM is it???) on a non-RH variation is painful and I have been known to launch CPUs across the room in frustration.

Again, harping back to Apple they have done such a strong job of hiding the Linux element and bringing all that is needed to the front end GUI that I hardly consider these new boxes are Linux.

COBOL was great, but those were the days when all programmers spent more time planning and writing the code than debugging and realising they need a load more code because they forgot those two modules needed to talk to each other... good old flowcharting!

I go back to my previous comment, I think we were lucky evolving on machines where you could 'look under the hood' and see what was going on with only 8 data and address lines and only a handfull of assembler or higher level language commands at your disposal. Today, if there isn't a direct command, write a DLL, talking direct to the CPU or at a low level in the OS has people running. So it should if the low level is MS.

How many lines of code was there in Vista? Is it something around 50 million - no wonder it fails, eats memory and horsepower of the processor.

Did you change the title of this thread Northerner? I bet there are diabetics up and down the country who can't sleep at night would kill to find this thread


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## katie (Mar 25, 2009)

are you guys sure this isn't geeky?


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## Northerner (Mar 25, 2009)

katie said:


> are you guys sure this isn't geeky?



Nah! Of course not katie - do feel free to join in!  Although, I am beginning to sound like one of the Yorkshiremen from the 'Four Yorkshiremen' sketch by Monty Python! Oops! Probably opened up another tangent from the thread now!


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## katie (Mar 25, 2009)

Northerner said:


> Nah! Of course not katie - do feel free to join in!  Although, I am beginning to sound like one of the Yorkshiremen from the 'Four Yorkshiremen' sketch by Monty Python! Oops! Probably opened up another tangent from the thread now!



lol I would but I don't know anything about computers (hence the computing degree i'm doing )

And yep, I think you have just started something again


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## Einstein (Mar 25, 2009)

Ahhhh but ours were powered on steam from the proper side of the Pennines!

And as for Geeks, no, just think how we're expanding your knowledge of the history of computing Katie - is that another degree I feel coming up for Messrs Northerner and Einstein?


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## Copepod (Mar 26, 2009)

*Sinclair ZX81 computer*

To continue down the old computers thread...
I have a ZX81 computer, never used, still in the box in which it was posted by Sinclair to me, when I wrote to ask for sponsorship to go on a youth expedition to East Greenland in 1983. I wasn't very interested in computers then - somewhat put off by experiences of boring, pointless seeming programming at secondary school and discouraged by the boys crowding round the few BBC micros in school, excluding girls, as they did with equipment in all science classes, metalwork, woodwork etc. I "fought" for access in all those subjects, but just couldn't be bothered with computers. As it happens, computing got much easier and more widely used within a few years, so perhaps I didn't miss out too much, in the long run, and have no problems with computer programmes I've used over the years since. 
Anyway, I now have an unused ZX81, with power cables, manual etc, and am considering selling. So, any advice of places to advertise would be much appreciated. I don't mind holding on to the computer for a year or two longer to get a good price and find the right buyer.


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## Northerner (Mar 26, 2009)

Copepod said:


> ...Anyway, I now have an unused ZX81, with power cables, manual etc, and am considering selling. So, any advice of places to advertise would be much appreciated. I don't mind holding on to the computer for a year or two longer to get a good price and find the right buyer...



Hi Copepod - having a zx81 in mint, unused condition ought to be worth something, but unfortunately it's not likely to command much of a price (as katie has found with her old spectrum!). It seems that so many people thought 'I'll hang on to that, it'll be worth something in a few years', that there are thousands of them out there still. Maybe ?15-?20 on ebay? A standard ZX81 had 1k of memory, which was pretty useless and so you needed a 16k or 64k rampack to go with it. As it stands it has a novelty/nostalgia value, but little practical use.


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## Northerner (Mar 26, 2009)

Actually, I could be wrong - a mint example in original packaging could be worth up to ?100 according to one article I found. What might be worth something also is if you have a letter with it from Sinclair Research - there are a lot of enthusiast groups around on the net that might be interested in this extra bit of provenance.


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## Einstein (Mar 26, 2009)

Surely there are people who still want a door wedge? 

The only minor issue is if it actually works, in mint condition, unused its got to easily be worth ?100, while in its day it had a very strong following, today its only a trip down memory lane for some of us old enough to remember the battles saving 8KB of code we'd keyed in and the risk of never being able to read the tape again - it was the advantage of Commodore, they produced their own tape drive that worked far better than the ones used with Beebs and Sinclair machines...

The other one we missed Northerner, but more on the educational front was the Research Machines 380Z and 480Z boxes - really not the best boxes on the market and I recall made the graphics on the ZX81 look acceptable!!!


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## Northerner (Mar 26, 2009)

Einstein said:


> ...The other one we missed Northerner, but more on the educational front was the Research Machines 380Z and 480Z boxes - really not the best boxes on the market and I recall made the graphics on the ZX81 look acceptable!!!



Talking of graphics, do you remember the 12 year old boy who managed to get high resolution graphics on a zx81 without using extra hardware? Wonder what he's doing now? The other great thing about those times was that it was so easy to innovate and set up your own little software or peripheral company - most of them didn't last.

Here's something that katie would find extremely nerdy - wher I worked in the early 80s we had a big dotmatrix printer. When it was printing the game was to guess which program was running from the 'tune' it made! We progressed to writing programs that would play actual tunes (erm, in our spare time, of course!)


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## katie (Mar 26, 2009)

Northerner said:


> Here's something that katie would find extremely nerdy - wher I worked in the early 80s we had a big dotmatrix printer. When it was printing the game was to guess which program was running from the 'tune' it made! We progressed to writing programs that would play actual tunes (erm, in our spare time, of course!)



I was just kidding about the geekiness. I'm a geek myself so can't really talk   It's just that I'm not that into computers anymore.

That isn't nerdy, that is cool. Anything that is vaguely to do with music is cool


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## Northerner (Mar 26, 2009)

Here is something cool that is vaguely related to something mentioned at the start of this thread http://www.csszengarden.com/ . It's a webpage entirely devoted to Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) and how they can be used to give a totally different appearance to the same content. I particularly like Retro Theatre - not very practical, but visually brilliant!

http://www.csszengarden.com/?cssfile=/202/202.css&page=1


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## katie (Mar 26, 2009)

Thanks for the link.  CSS is great, so much better than tables! and they make web design so much easier


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## Einstein (Mar 26, 2009)

Ok, ok, guys you've lost me, I pay people money to know all this stuff the same with our Java developers, but they can do some really cool stuff - like the entire backup suite...

I recall one youngster of the time Northerner, Eugene Evans, now I might be off with names, but he founded (I think) Imagine Software from Bug-byte, made a tidy packet designing Spectrum and C64 games, but the high rollers were the boys at Ocean Software - Hunchback etc they took over Imagine when they went bust.

A funny story about hunchback, it was christmas in the 1980's and Hunchback was the game to own, I was helping a chum of mine in his computer store in the christmas rush, stacking shelves with hunchback kneeling on the floor.

A voice asked me what 'the' game was to have for the Spectrum, it was there, fresh from the box, only touched by my hand - I handed it up...

"You're taking the p1ss aren't you" came the reply, still not looking up I said "no, it's the game" then I looked up, the gentleman was a hunchback!!!! I think that was my first will this floor open up and swallow me NOW!!! moments.

He bought it and came back in the new year and shook my hand saying it was a brilliant suggestion


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## bev (Mar 26, 2009)

Hi - sorry to butt in Katie and Northerner - but if you were the same age i think you would be a match made in heaven! You would make a lovely couple!Bev


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## nicky_too (Mar 26, 2009)

Einstein said:


> Surely there are people who still want a door wedge?



Actually, I have a door wedge!
We have those annoying doors with a built-in chain in our flat, so the doors close automatically as soon as you let them go. So each bedroom has a door wedge.


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## Northerner (Mar 27, 2009)

nicky_too said:


> Actually, I have a door wedge!
> We have those annoying doors with a built-in chain in our flat, so the doors close automatically as soon as you let them go. So each bedroom has a door wedge.



Ah! But can they run 3d Monster Maze?


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## Northerner (Mar 27, 2009)

bev said:


> Hi - sorry to butt in Katie and Northerner - but if you were the same age i think you would be a match made in heaven! You would make a lovely couple!Bev



Well, she did ask me to marry her once - and I accepted - but then she found out I was born in the 1950's...


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