# Been on very low carb, now told to eat bread - arrgh! :/



## Melwest (Dec 29, 2018)

I have been on low carb for quite a while, I guess the only carbs I have eaten is what is in two dessert spoons of powdered potato and that is not every day, my sugars have ranged between maybe 9 and 28mmol due to having Radiotherapy for Lymphoma, that stopped some 4-5 weeks ago but i still feel rubbish.

I went to a diabetic meeting the other day and was told to have carbs again,i.e. bread, i refuse to eat porridge due to it making my sugars rise to 28+ mmol, i have had egg on toast for breakfast today and I am up to 17.9mmol and now trembling and sweating.

I do not really wish for carbs as it raises my levels horrendously and makes me feel bad, I am told they are good carbs- I do not believe it at all, I can only go by feeling utterly rubbish after having them in any larger amount than that of the powdered mash portion and two dessert spoons does not have so much in them.

Another site on the internet would vouch for carb free and one user saying she got a massive rush after going free after a few weeks- i kind of think that is BS because I just feel crap. excuse that but i do. I have no idea what feeling good is all about for the last 3 or so years, i am currently taking humulin kwikpen 60 units per day and i am type II. The insulin makes very little difference. If i take Metformin it does seem to work better than the insulin but makes me really ill, i also have issues if i take Gliclizide.

Not sure what way to go now or even who to believe.. help please?!


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## HOBIE (Dec 29, 2018)

Well done for keeping the carbs down. More than 52yrs of being T1 diabetic & carbs do the damage to GB. Less carbs & its easier to control. Good luck & welcome.


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## Ditto (Dec 29, 2018)

Good grief, bread is just the worst thing imho!


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## HOBIE (Dec 29, 2018)

Ditto said:


> Good grief, bread is just the worst thing imho!


Sticky Toffee pudding is bad . Bread I find is ok. Everything in moderation. No wonder your mixed up. Good luck


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## travellor (Dec 29, 2018)

HOBIE said:


> Sticky Toffee pudding is bad . Bread I find is ok. Everything in moderation. No wonder your mixed up. Good luck


I found millionaire shortbread was worse than sticky toffee pudding


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## Madeline (Dec 29, 2018)

I can’t even eat porridge, let alone bread. 

I fantasise about stuff like millionaires shortbread.


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## HOBIE (Dec 29, 2018)

Porridge I have nearly every day & then off to work. Nothing at all till 1ish. BG fine cos active job


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## travellor (Dec 30, 2018)

HOBIE said:


> Porridge I have nearly every day & then off to work. Nothing at all till 1ish. BG fine cos active job



I found activity was a good solution as well.


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## Drummer (Dec 30, 2018)

As you are type two, like me, bread, or any grain is going to increase your blood glucose levels - so will potatoes and other starchy veges, and so will fruit, fruit juice, or sugary foods.
As far as I know there are no good carbs, but there are no essential carbs either, so you do not need to eat them - I don't know why you are eating potato, but I doubt that you need to.
I have salads and stir fries all the time, selecting foods which are 10 percent carbs or lower, and eat meat, fish, shellfish, eggs and cheese - I eat twice a day, as I don't need to eat more than that, have cream in my coffee, also a couple of times a day.
My Hba1c is at the top end of normal, and has been for 18 months now - I was diagnosed two years ago. I can cope with small amounts of low carb bread which I make myself, as there isn't much available to buy - and it is really expensive too. I try to stay below 7 mmol/l at the 2 hour tests, though I don't test very often now - as there is very little reason to do so. I know what foods to eat and stick to them.


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## Melwest (Dec 30, 2018)

I had not eaten bread for a year and my diet is somewhat similar to yours @Drummer but my HB1AC are always over 70mmol for the last year anyhow, I have been checking labels of all the food i buy and if something does have carbs I also tend to see if I can keep it as low as possible. I do not have fresh potato, only the powdered stuff occasionally due to it taking moments to make. I had tried the low carb bread but it is expensive and tastes far too sweet for me.

The diabetic centre team say i must have an awful existence and little energy and I am exhausted most of the time but I am still putting that down to the radiotherapy, prior to that I can only manage little and often. She has said she is going to make it her aim his year to get me eating bread, I mentioned the low-zero carbs which has been spoken about on here too and she said she did look at it.... and that was that, again, she says these results are from personal experiences and not from people that have studied for years and years and are professionals so I should take all of what any of you say with a pinch of salt and listen to her / them.... Maybe they are trying to kill me off, this is why I am so frustrated.

I also eat twice per day, this morning I got up and am at 14.2 mmol and I have not injected yet only i just got up due my sedatives/antihistamines. I cannot remember when I was below 8.9mmol, it has been a while.


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## Omar (Dec 30, 2018)

HOBIE said:


> Porridge I have nearly every day & then off to work. Nothing at all till 1ish. BG fine cos active job


Yes thankfully mine is the same.  I find it odd that someone has told you to eat bread! Anyway @Melwest are you a fan of sweet potato? I’m guessing not


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## Sally W (Dec 31, 2018)

Sorry to learn of your health issues and radiotherapy.  I have no idea what effect that could be having on your system.

When I went extremely low carb I was miserable and lacking in energy. What I do now is measure my blood. Some foods spike me and I avoid them. Others like sourdough bread and high protein pasta don’t. Eating a little of those satiate me and help me avoid lots of nuts and cheese, keeping a close eye on overall carb intake. Maybe it’s worth getting a self test kit? Just a thought 

I hope you get some help from the medics to manage both conditions and wish you best of luck with future radiotherapy.


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## Melwest (Jan 7, 2019)

Hi, yes i have eaten sweet potato but not very often, in my other post today the Radiotherapist told me it would affect my sugar levels so now I have finished they should start returning to a better level though my Hba1c came back at 93 today, my cholesterol at 8 and they are trying to get me to take statins...no. not after last time.

I do eat some nuts here and there and cheese, sadly any carb spikes me for some reason so i try my hardest to go without but i am extremely lethargic and advised that is down to the radiotherapy, my diet is mainly fat so that does not help the cholesterol but is it really that bad only I have managed to lose over a stone now over the last 6 or so weeks, this puzzles me as to how anyone can lose weight on a high fat diet!


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## travellor (Jan 7, 2019)

Melwest said:


> Hi, yes i have eaten sweet potato but not very often, in my other post today the Radiotherapist told me it would affect my sugar levels so now I have finished they should start returning to a better level though my Hba1c came back at 93 today, my cholesterol at 8 and they are trying to get me to take statins...no. not after last time.
> 
> I do eat some nuts here and there and cheese, sadly any carb spikes me for some reason so i try my hardest to go without but i am extremely lethargic and advised that is down to the radiotherapy, my diet is mainly fat so that does not help the cholesterol but is it really that bad only I have managed to lose over a stone now over the last 6 or so weeks, this puzzles me as to how anyone can lose weight on a high fat diet!



I never could lose weight on a high fat diet.
Cheese, well, any saturated fat pushed my cholesterol through the ceiling as well.
Low healthy fat, Mediterranean diet for me.


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## HOBIE (Jan 7, 2019)

Low carb is good


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## trophywench (Jan 7, 2019)

Would you go to a diabetes consultant to find out about Radiotherapy, or an ENT one to enquire about your waterworks?  I am baffled as to why your diabetes is anything to do with Radiology.  If you need more help with it and you most likely do because ANY concurrent illness condition and certain drugs can all have an effect on the blood glucose levels - in fact longterm use of some drugs can even cause diabetes!

Do you actually see an expert about your D or is your advice solely from your GP surgery where there are NO experts - that's exactly why their name is General practice.  I don't deny they know one hell of a lot about all sorts of things - but just aren't experts and are not even supposed to be.

Whoever you happen to see about your D - or anything else - you are 100% entitled to request a second opinion.


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## Drummer (Jan 7, 2019)

Melwest said:


> Hi, yes i have eaten sweet potato but not very often, in my other post today the Radiotherapist told me it would affect my sugar levels so now I have finished they should start returning to a better level though my Hba1c came back at 93 today, my cholesterol at 8 and they are trying to get me to take statins...no. not after last time.
> 
> I do eat some nuts here and there and cheese, sadly any carb spikes me for some reason so i try my hardest to go without but i am extremely lethargic and advised that is down to the radiotherapy, my diet is mainly fat so that does not help the cholesterol but is it really that bad only I have managed to lose over a stone now over the last 6 or so weeks, this puzzles me as to how anyone can lose weight on a high fat diet!


You really do have to avoid eating high carb foods -sweet potato - the clue is in the name - and all that 'information' about fat in the diet was - as far as can be ascertained, based on highly suspect 'data'


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## travellor (Jan 7, 2019)

Drummer said:


> You really do have to avoid eating high carb foods -sweet potato - the clue is in the name - and all that 'information' about fat in the diet was - as far as can be ascertained, based on highly suspect 'data'



Ah.
Looking at the name.
It seems it may be bad.
But the reality?
"Sweet potato" is a very high fibre, very high GI food.
High GI means it can be to a great many of us, a  good food, we can eat it, without a spike.
(Problem with low carb is it accentuates them)

Now, we have to look at the amount of carbs, and the way people react to them.
So a few carbs, that we absorb slowly, like a "sweet potato" can be ok to many.
Don't write it off us for the rest of us.

Many of us aren't committed to missing out on these foods.

(Fat, really bad, saturated fat spikes my cholesterol like a erm, bad thing)

I find moderation is the key for me.

Lose weight, Mediterranean diet, choose the middle path for everything, and its all good, the mainstream way seems to work.


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## HOBIE (Jan 7, 2019)

When I was in my youth I used to race Catamarans & the min weight was 10st 10. A few competitors said I was cheating & I was forced to carry bricks on my boat. I still beat them & have not been much heavier ALL my life. The bricks helped to keep the boat down in the wind. Speed.


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## travellor (Jan 7, 2019)

HOBIE said:


> When I was in my youth I used to race Catamarans & the min weight was 10st 10. A few competitors said I was cheating & I was forced to carry bricks on my boat. I still beat them & have not been much heavier ALL my life. The bricks helped to keep the boat down in the wind. Speed.




Very true.
The op is type 2 

Lose weight is the key for type 2!
Totally support where you are coming from.
What do you think about the Newcastle Diet for that?


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## trophywench (Jan 7, 2019)

Losing weight might be the key for people who are overweight - but not much help if you don't need to loose it so simply need to replace the calories they do need to cut down on in the carbs they consume, because they are diabetic.  A too high protein diet isn't healthy - and there's not enough cals in an awful lot of veg to do it without eating half a ton of it.  Hence - the simplest way to get em back is with a bit of fat.


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## Melwest (Jan 7, 2019)

trophywench said:


> Would you go to a diabetes consultant to find out about Radiotherapy, or an ENT one to enquire about your waterworks?  I am baffled as to why your diabetes is anything to do with Radiology.  If you need more help with it and you most likely do because ANY concurrent illness condition and certain drugs can all have an effect on the blood glucose levels - in fact longterm use of some drugs can even cause diabetes!
> 
> Do you actually see an expert about your D or is your advice solely from your GP surgery where there are NO experts - that's exactly why their name is General practice.  I don't deny they know one hell of a lot about all sorts of things - but just aren't experts and are not even supposed to be.
> 
> Whoever you happen to see about your D - or anything else - you are 100% entitled to request a second opinion.



Because the Radiologist advised me that my sugars would naturally go up whilst having the treatment, I did not go to her for a diabetes meeting! Radiotherapy makes your sugars go through the roof, mine were whilst having the treatment and nothing for love nor money would get them down, or the actual diabetic clinic did not give me much else in the way of support whilst I was having it. I thought it was easy to understand and cannot for the life for me fathom out why you seem to think I asked my Radiologist for diabetes advice because I did not!

I have mentioned my Diabetic clinic which is run by the nhs and they are the supposed specialists or experts, I do not take any advice from my gp, where did you get that from?

I can categorically tell you 100% that the supposed specialist dietitian from the NHS Diabetes clinic told me to have porridge, bread and other such carbs, now the diabetic clinic in Kettering are also telling me I must eat some carbs and that taking advice off you folks on the internet is not recognised, I keep saying this yet nobody listens, I might as well smash my head against a brick wall. I am seeing NHS specialists and they are the ones giving me the advice, why do you all think I am coming over here online and asking... because I am sick to death of all the misinformation given to me.


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## trophywench (Jan 7, 2019)

Oh - I have never had my serum chol measured frequently enough to detect a spike or a dip - same as sporadic HBA1c tests never show either spikes or troughs.  We have to test our blood several times a day, to have a bash at working out which particular thing caused the glitch in BG.

Even my T2 forum friend, with a dicky heart valve and familial hyperchol, when the cardiac consultant she's been seeing for decades tested it 3 monthly leading up to her valve replacement op, didn't want it more frequently and soon went back to the 6 monthly intervals thereafter.


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## Melwest (Jan 7, 2019)

They test me every three months for HBA1c though I am not sure that counts as sporadic, the latest request is for me to test 4 times per day now, I had in the past tested more than this but they told me It was not at all necessary and that morning and evenings were the most important. I only eat twice daily only I cannot usually eat breakfast, maybe after being up for 4-5 hrs.


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## travellor (Jan 7, 2019)

I did have my cholesterol measured as an actual reaction  to my diet.
And I can state, my cholesterol  in the reality of real measurement, it tracked my saturated fat intake.
Saturated fat sucked.


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## Melwest (Jan 7, 2019)

What is real experience? I have been tested every 3 months for the last 4 years, If you read back I did say beforehand I managed my diabetes by diet for almost 3 years and never had high cholesterol and my HBA1c were always below 50, I stated that I have never been within normal range since a year or so ago when I had Ketacidosis.

I do eat barely anything I used to which includes oats and wheat based products, lactose free milk nowadays, and boiled or poached eggs with olives and sardines in brine for breakfast most of the time- but like I keep saying, I cannot eat when I wake up, that is just wrong, yukk.


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## travellor (Jan 7, 2019)

Melwest said:


> What is real experience? I have been tested every 3 months for the last 4 years, If you read back I did say beforehand I managed my diabetes by diet for almost 3 years and never had high cholesterol and my HBA1c were always below 50, I stated that I have never been within normal range since a year or so ago when I had Ketacidosis.
> 
> I do eat barely anything I used to which includes oats and wheat based products, lactose free milk nowadays, and boiled or poached eggs with olives and sardines in brine for breakfast most of the time- but like I keep saying, I cannot eat when I wake up, that is just wrong, yukk.


That is the way to go.
Keep doing what works!


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## HOBIE (Jan 8, 2019)

If you weigh 20stone its like putting a blanket over your car engine & expecting it run right ?


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## Melwest (Jan 8, 2019)

I have never been anything like that weight suggested though I have been 4 stone over, now I am currently two and it is dropping.


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## Drummer (Jan 8, 2019)

Melwest said:


> Because the Radiologist advised me that my sugars would naturally go up whilst having the treatment, I did not go to her for a diabetes meeting! Radiotherapy makes your sugars go through the roof, mine were whilst having the treatment and nothing for love nor money would get them down, or the actual diabetic clinic did not give me much else in the way of support whilst I was having it. I thought it was easy to understand and cannot for the life for me fathom out why you seem to think I asked my Radiologist for diabetes advice because I did not!
> 
> I have mentioned my Diabetic clinic which is run by the nhs and they are the supposed specialists or experts, I do not take any advice from my gp, where did you get that from?
> 
> I can categorically tell you 100% that the supposed specialist dietitian from the NHS Diabetes clinic told me to have porridge, bread and other such carbs, now the diabetic clinic in Kettering are also telling me I must eat some carbs and that taking advice off you folks on the internet is not recognised, I keep saying this yet nobody listens, I might as well smash my head against a brick wall. I am seeing NHS specialists and they are the ones giving me the advice, why do you all think I am coming over here online and asking... because I am sick to death of all the misinformation given to me.


I am as bewildered as you about the advice from the NHS - diabetes is an inability to cope with carbs - cut the carbs and diabetes is just gone - no problems. Type twos trying to eat carbs is like putting the wrong fuel into your car - it is not going to end well. 
I got my blood glucose to normal levels and then lost weight without even trying - weight is a consequence of glucose problems, not the cause of them.


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## travellor (Jan 8, 2019)

Drummer said:


> I am as bewildered as you about the advice from the NHS - diabetes is an inability to cope with carbs - cut the carbs and diabetes is just gone - no problems. Type twos trying to eat carbs is like putting the wrong fuel into your car - it is not going to end well.
> I got my blood glucose to normal levels and then lost weight without even trying - weight is a consequence of glucose problems, not the cause of them.


Is that true for every diabetic?


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## Drummer (Jan 8, 2019)

travellor said:


> Is that true for every diabetic?


For a high percentage of us, yes - an increase or decrease in weight when diet remains the same should surely flag up 'test for diabetes'.

I just wish that tests other than for glucose in urine had been done for me far earlier - though as I was often low carbing it might not have been shown up - just my problem always being unable to eat carbs without putting on weight very quickly should have set off alarm bells, but no - being fat was always my own sinful behaviour. I read my notes once when the doctor was called out of the room - really sneering comments about my weight and refusal to stick to diets and take exercise.


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## trophywench (Jan 8, 2019)

Hyperinsulinema (sp?) - discuss, LOL


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## travellor (Jan 8, 2019)

trophywench said:


> Hyperinsulinema (sp?) - discuss, LOL



Not that funny to us as type 2's to be fair.
LOL to some maybe, but in poor taste to us that can't control insulin levels.


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## trophywench (Jan 8, 2019)

I wasn't suggesting it was actually funny - but that those who don't understand that condition (like most of the tabloids, recently) should read up about it and discover that merely having Type 2 diabetes can cause weight gain of itself without the person themselves having any input into it whatever.  Then apologise to whoever it applies to!


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## travellor (Jan 8, 2019)

trophywench said:


> I wasn't suggesting it was actually funny - but that those who don't understand that condition (like most of the tabloids, recently) should read up about it and discover that merely having Type 2 diabetes can cause weight gain of itself without the person themselves having any input into it whatever.  Then apologise to whoever it applies to!


I'll take your apology.
It's not always easy looking into type 2.


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## robert@fm (Jan 9, 2019)

Drummer said:


> I just wish that tests other than for glucose in urine had been done for me far earlier - though as I was often low carbing it might not have been shown up - just my problem always being unable to eat carbs without putting on weight very quickly should have set off alarm bells, but no - being fat was always my own sinful behaviour. I read my notes once when the doctor was called out of the room - really sneering comments about my weight and refusal to stick to diets and take exercise.


I'm not surprised. The one time I saw a diabetes dietitian, I happened to be drinking a milkshake (because I thought I had more time until the appointment than I actually did), and took care to point out to her that I only have that sort of thing as an occasional treat. Evidently neither she nor the two students also in the room listened to a word I said, because by the time the interview was written up, my statement had mysteriously morphed into "I stuff myself constantly with cakes and biscuits".  Needless to say, I thus had zero confidence in her, and didn't bother to turn up to the follow-up appointment.


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## Sally W (Jan 9, 2019)

Diabetes is a complex issue. We are all different in our journey. I have familial diabetes & knew I was not going to escape as mother and grandmother have/had it. Some are people are overweight and another friend of mine is stick thin, struggles to put any weight on whether eating carbs, fats or any diet and yet has type 2. 
It would be good if we could all respect each other’s opinions and way of managing.  Some of the posts, particularly around Christmas time, castigating folk for eating a single after eight mint, don’t seem helpful. By all means, offer suggestions and encouragement but ‘my way is the only way’ doesn’t seem right to me.


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## grovesy (Jan 9, 2019)

Sally W said:


> Diabetes is a complex issue. We are all different in our journey. I have familial diabetes & knew I was not going to escape as mother and grandmother have/had it. Some are people are overweight and another friend of mine is stick thin, struggles to put any weight on whether eating carbs, fats or any diet and yet has type 2.
> It would be good if we could all respect each other’s opinions and way of managing.  Some of the posts, particularly around Christmas time, castigating folk for eating a single after eight mint, don’t seem helpful. By all means, offer suggestions and encouragement but ‘my way is the only way’ doesn’t seem right to me.


The more recent findings from researchers are saying it is a range of conditions, which need to be treated in a variety of ways. In other words one size does not fit all.


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## Ditto (Jan 9, 2019)

robert@fm said:


> ... because by the time the interview was written up, my statement had mysteriously morphed into "I stuff myself constantly with cakes and biscuits".



That is diabolical!


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