# Diabetes as a disability



## sofaraway (Jan 26, 2009)

Ok so I'm starting what might be a controrvertial topic and might raise strong feelings.

Diabetes is classified as a disability and we are covered under the DDA. Just wondering how feel feel about this issue, do you feel disabled?

I seem to see that there is dual thoughts to this issue. 
We don't want anyone to stop us doing things because we have diabetes sky diving, using a sauna etc etc. Can get annoyed with people who think we can't eat anything with sugar in etc. and generally want to be treated like everyone else.
Then on the other hand we want accommodations made because we have diabetes, and want people to take it into account with working conditions.

Personally I have used the fact that diabetes is considered a disability on applying for jobs. The jobs that i tend to apply for have a guaranteed interview system. So that if you meet the minimum requirements and have a disability you get an interview. Part of my felt it was wrong and I got an interview above people who might have been better qualified for the job. 

At work I have agreed with occupational health that I only work 3 night shifts per month rather than the 7 that each person on our team is meant to work. 

I don't consider myself disabled and hope to limit the affect that diabetes has on my everyday life. I also tend to play down my diabetes to my friends and family. Places like this are the only places I tend to talk about any problems I might be having. 

so think my post isn't as articulate as I intended. But does anyone else have any thoughts on the subject?


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## mikep1979 (Jan 26, 2009)

ah well it is a good thought, but as we are classed as disabled under the dda you didnt do anything wrong in the eyes of the law. i have on a few occasions been unable to work due to problems with my diabetes and had to sign on as sick as i was self employed at the time. now this is fine for me, but i was shocked to find that diabetes is in a grey area as regards to disability living allowance. this was even more of a shock when i found out my partners sisters boyfriend had been getting dla for his eczema!!!! he was on the higher rate as well!!! talk about wrong. now i didn't want to go on dla or anything, but i always thought you had to be ill to get it. his eczema would flair up in hot conditions so he couldn't work in a kitchen etc. when i found this out i was mortified as i had been having problems and struggling for a few years to get control and also suffered bouts of depression as a result. i don't consider myself disabled, but i do believe employers need to have a greater awareness of diabetes and what it involves.


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## emma1972 (Jan 26, 2009)

I am glad that we are covered under the disability act as that is all that is keeping me in my job. Prior to this we had to resign if type 1 diabetes developed, now they are forced to keep me in employment. The funny thing is I have asked for no adjustment and they have not made any so I carry on as before. They would have chucked me on the scrap heap previously yet I am proof that I can do the job anyway.


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## aymes (Jan 26, 2009)

I personally don't 'feel' disabled, using the definition of a disability as something that has an adverse impact on your day to day activities, to me it is part of my day to day life so I don't feel that it disables me in anyway. Do understand though that for many people it does so have no issue with it coming under the DDA. 
With regard to forms etc I usually tick no if it says ' do you consider yourself to have a disability' but it it says something about what that includes and diabetes us included I will say yes.


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## Northerner (Jan 26, 2009)

It's a tricky one, isn't it?  People are much more accepting of disability these days than they were in my childhood. I think that this is due to the tremendous achievements that have now become very 'visible' due to things like the paralympics, plus laws making public places adapt to the requirements of blind, deaf or physically disabled people.

Yet, there are still many negative connotations with the word 'disability' in our society, usually born of traditional attitudes and ignorance. Generally, I would not consider myself disabled partly because of this ingrained aversion to the term. As I walk around, I'm struck by the fact that I am probably _*less*_ disabled than a significant proportion of the population. In October I ran the Great South Run, and I'm pretty certain that the majority of the thousands of people that finished behind me are not described as 'disabled', so in what way am I less able than them?

I do, however, accept that there may be areas of life where my condition needs to be taken into account, for my own or other's safety, and as long as these rules are fair and valid I would not argue against them. On the other hand, it is sad to say, I also know that I need protection from prejudice that might preclude me from consideration in job applications. At age 50, I also need the protection of the new Age Discrimination laws - I shouldn't be dismissed as a potential candidate just because of my age, nor should I because of my diabetes.

So, I'd say, I don't consider myself disabled but I do welcome the protection of the law - it means people have to consider the condition and how to accomodate it, rather than simply ignore it and reject us. Perhaps they need a new name for this category


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## Hazel (Jan 26, 2009)

Nikki, thanks for opening up a very good thread

As T2,  I have never felt 'disabled'. As T2, I have not been stopped from doing anything of my choosing.  I do though agree with the comment that employers need to have a greater understanding of the condition.   I have in the last few years worked for small companies who do not have either an HR or medical departments.   It therefore, falls on the manager (in my case accountants) to understand what's what.

I put on my CV that I am T2, so that any propective employer knows from the start, and can ask appropriate questions at the interview stage.   I view my T2 as no different to say someone with asthma, or someone who leaves their workplace for a cigarette.

Hazel


.


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## grahams mum (Jan 26, 2009)

*disability*

being a mum i am  pleased that my son he is covered by DDA  because untill   will be older he cannot protect himself from the school  enviroment and he will never be like his friends


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## MarcLister (Jan 26, 2009)

Well I'm Type 1 and although I knew about the DDA I wasn't really aware of any legal rights for diabetics. Probably as I'm disabled through my bilateral hearing impairment, in other words I'm deaf. And I wear glasses. 

As far as I am concerned, Diabetes is a disability and we should get legal rights to allow us to cope with is.

sofaraway - Even with my hearing aids I don't feel disabled, but at the end of the day, we both are so we may as well get what benefits we can out of this.


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## katie (Jan 26, 2009)

If I am disabled, I would like benefits and a free car please 

But seriously, what rights do we have accept free prescriptions and free eye sight checks etc? because I really don't know.


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## Freddie99 (Jan 26, 2009)

katie said:


> If I am disabled, I would like benefits and a free car please
> 
> But seriously, what rights do we have accept free prescriptions and free eye sight checks etc? because I really don't know.





Good question Katie. I feel if you were to mention diabetes at any A&E you would probably be given priority treatment.

On the original question I have not felt that I am in any way disabled. Although I did have to enter this on my UCAS form in September I did not feel that it was necessary.
Although people would have me believe that I am radically different from other so called "normal" people I don't think that I am. I am able to do the tasks that they do, all I have to do is think just that little bit harder than they do.

Tom H


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## Jock 83 (Jan 27, 2009)

My view of the disability question, well no offence to anybody but i have never viewed myself as disabled and deeply resent any suggestion that a common medical condition would be viewed as such. I wasn't always allowed to participate in school trips etc, when younger, because of some very short sighted people. 
This has reinforced my view that I shouldn't be treated differently to anyone else, wheather in education, sport, work etc.

You have to take full responsabilty for yourself, don't worry what people think or try to tell you. Test and inject in public, its not like anyone should feel ashamed or uncomfortable. 
If a smoker gets brakes at work then surely a minute to test blood sugar shouldn't be out of the question? Would you call a smoker disabled? 

Hey sorry rant finished


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## nicky_too (Jan 27, 2009)

Being from a differten country, I didn't know about any law and being labelled as 'disabled'.
Could anyone find or give more info on this law and what that means for us diabetics in every day life?

I have to say that at the moment I don't feel disabled at all. Obviously I have to watch what I eat and because I want to stay stable I need to eat little portions 5 times a day, but I can do that right next to my computer. I am also lucky not to have hypos and no complications, so I would have no problem in just working. The same hours and same way as anyone else, I just eat more often and take pills, that's it.

Obviously it would be a different matter if I had any complications. They can be really serious and keep you away from work. Same goes for people who have regular hypos, they cannot always get to work (or simply later).

I used to have a colleague with diabetes (T1), but he really messed things up. He didn't stick to his diet at all (eating cake/pie and drinking quite a lot of alcohol) and I have to admit I don't have any sympathy for people like that either. I understand that it's hard to be diabetic sometimes and we all have bad days and we all want to forget about it from time to time, but not a few times a week, as this man did. And that is the danger of it, people may take advantage of the rules and protection and mess things up for those of us who want to be as normal as possible.

Just my thoughts on this...


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## Freddie99 (Jan 27, 2009)

Jock 83 said:


> My view of the disability question, well no offence to anybody but i have never viewed myself as disabled and deeply resent any suggestion that a common medical condition would be viewed as such. I wasn't always allowed to participate in school trips etc, when younger, because of some very short sighted people.
> This has reinforced my view that I shouldn't be treated differently to anyone else, wheather in education, sport, work etc.
> 
> You have to take full responsabilty for yourself, don't worry what people think or try to tell you. Test and inject in public, its not like anyone should feel ashamed or uncomfortable.
> ...



Jock,

You've got my sentiments exactly on this matter. We are not disabled.

Tom H


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## Copepod (Jan 27, 2009)

I agree with Tom and Jock - I've only been disabled by the attitudes of other people, not by the diabetes nor insulin itself. I'd just like others to consider people with diabetes as individuals, rather imposing blanket bans on things that have affected me personally, such as minibus & van driving, professional SCUBA diving, rejoining Territorial Army, working in Antarctica etc. However, I concentrate on trying to do things I enjoy, and where possible, exerting my influence eg on youth expeditions to include people with diabetes and writing on travel health (see 5th edition Bugs, Bites & Bowels, due out spring 09 - I won't get any commission!)


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## aymes (Jan 27, 2009)

Jock 83 said:


> My view of the disability question, well no offence to anybody but i have never viewed myself as disabled and deeply resent any suggestion that a common medical condition would be viewed as such. I wasn't always allowed to participate in school trips etc, when younger, because of some very short sighted people.
> This has reinforced my view that I shouldn't be treated differently to anyone else, wheather in education, sport, work etc.



I too don't see myself as disabled and agree that diabetes shouldn't restrict you doing activities but to me if it has to be 'labelled' as a disability to protect against being stopped from doing things like school trips then I welcome it.



nicky_too said:


> Being from a differten country, I didn't know about any law and being labelled as 'disabled'.
> Could anyone find or give more info on this law and what that means for us diabetics in every day life?



It's the disability discrimination act and diabetes can be included in it meaning diabetics have the same protection under it as people with other conditions etc. Means that businesses must make 'reasonable adjustments' etc for any special needs eg blood testing at work etc, I think most employers don't need the act to make accomodations like this but some may be less helpful so I guess it's useful in these circumstances.


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## Caroline (Jan 27, 2009)

I don't consider myself disabled, but at the moment diabetes is being used to my advantage. When I was first diagnosed I was told I had to tell my HR at work, so I did.

My firm is very understanding, and I have had a lot of time off sick since October. My doctor is an idiot, so I am seeing the Occupational Health people twice, once to asses my needs at work as I often work alone, and once to discuss my general well being and other medical needs.

I know not everyone gets the level of care I am getting from my employer, and not all employers are so understanding.

To me diabetes means I have to take pills for the rest of my life and I have to watch my diet, but I can still do things non diabetic people can.


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## AmandaB (Jan 28, 2009)

I totally agree that I don't feel disabled and I've only once used my T1 to my advantage - in the '70s I hated the school 'mac' so used my T1 as a reason to get a warmer coat to protect me from getting a cold/chill or whatever else I could think of.

I've long supported the belief that I am just as 'normal' as the next man (or woman) but I do understand some people are in a far worse medical condition than me but I do get cross when Diabetes is used as an excuse in any way (so says she who did once!)

But, to my point, although I don't play on the fact I'm T1, I do understand the DDA means employers must make 'reasonable adjustments'. What exactly does this entail? My situation is that the Hospital Diabetic clinic is only on a day I go to work and my employer usually regards hospital appointments as using up part of my sick leave. As I sometimes use all my sick leave - last year I had my 6th operation on frozen shoulder - can I ask for 'reasonable adjustments' so that my sickleave is not affected?


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## mikep1979 (Jan 29, 2009)

hospital appointments are not sick leave. your employer is not being fair to you or any others by using up your sick leave in this way. i would be interested to see what would happen if this was challenged by someone as it seems they think they can get away with anything. im currently off work due to not being able to control my sugar levels well and my employer has told me to take as much time as i need and that they will still be paying me full pay not sick pay. i think it helps the fact my employers son is a type 1 diabetic to. it may be worth while to speak to you local union rep regarding this matter of sick leave for hospital appointments.


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## Corrine (Jan 29, 2009)

I agree with Mike - I thought employers had to give time off for hospital and dental appointments? My employer lets me have all the time off I need for my appointments...to the degree that I whenItook the morning off after my diagnosis to hide away in shock they wouldn't let me use my holiday for it.


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## mikep1979 (Jan 29, 2009)

im almost certain they cant use sick days for hospital appointments etc. im sure it covered by some government legislation. as i said tho contact your local union rep (even if your not in the union they will give you advice and then try to sign you up lol) as they are sometimes a font of information. i will also check this out for you and i can almost be certain its is classed as unpaid leave for medical purposes and not being sick as they say.


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## Copepod (Jan 29, 2009)

Awaiting confirmation from someone who understands employment law, but there are a few issues: I think that time off to attend maternity / pregnancy related appointments is enhrined, but not so sure about other medical / dentist appointments. Then, different employers have different rules eg many of my employers over the years have stated that they prefer people to have medical / dental appointments at the beginning / end of day, so that relatively less work time is affected. On this topic, I found Addenbrookes Hospital very helpful recently - previously I had attended once a year on a Wednesday afternoon, so when I started a year long contract working 80% of full time, 250 miles away, commuting weekly, I asked if I could attend on a Monday morning or Friday afternoon - and they agreed to an early Monday morning appointment, which helped all round. Now, I'm back locally, I don't need such a specific appointment, so don't ask for one. So much of disability discrimination legislation hinges on "reasonable adaptions" by employers - and there is much discussion about what is un/reasonable.


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## Caroline (Jan 29, 2009)

At my firm if you spend all day at the hospital it is not counted as sick, but you have to fill in a self cert and produce an appointment card or letter as evidence this is what has happened, just o keep records straight.

No way are medical appointments counted as sick. I am even allowed an afternoon off when I have my retinal scans in the morning as I can't see properly to use my computer


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## katie (Jan 29, 2009)

Yeah, if you have a hospital appointment, they can't take it as a sick day.


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## mikep1979 (Jan 29, 2009)

a guy (who is HR at his works) i know has just told me that medical appointments are not allowed to be classed as sick days, but your employer can ask to be shown confirmation of the appointment and ask you to come in to work around it. he has told me that you shouldnt even have a statutory number of sick days a year you are allowed to take either.


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## Copepod (Jan 29, 2009)

Some seemingly useful and knowledgeable advice re diabetes, DDA and employment here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbouch/F3611783?thread=5040031


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## AmandaB (Jan 31, 2009)

Fantastic link, thanks. Gave me just the answers I was after.


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## KateF (Jan 31, 2009)

Speaking as an HR person...

The DDA requires employers to consider what adjustments are reasonable to their rules and practices to enable you to do the job.  

Employers are not required to give you more paid sick days than people without a disability.  

If you take a whole day off for medical appointments, employers are entitled to consider it a day of sick leave (nothing stops you asking to use a day of annual leave for it if you prefer).  There is no obligation on employers to pay for attendance at medical appointments.  Being granted the time as sick leave tends to be better than unpaid leave as most employers pay full pay for a certain number of sick days per year.   

As a previous poster stated, the only medical appointments for which paid time off is legally provided are maternity appointments.
________
UGGS


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## AmandaB (Feb 1, 2009)

KateF said:


> Speaking as an HR person...
> 
> The DDA requires employers to consider what adjustments are reasonable to their rules and practices to enable you to do the job.
> 
> ...


Oh dear, I'm confused again.

Thanks for your comments KateF but this seems to go against what it says on the messageboard Copepod gives the link to.

You say:If you take a whole day off for medical appointments, employers are entitled to consider it a day of sick leave (nothing stops you asking to use a day of annual leave for it if you prefer). There is no obligation on employers to pay for attendance at medical appointments


For me taking it as sick leave is not where I want to go as I sometimes need to use that paid tome for when I am sick (lol) and attending Diabetic clinic to me is not because I'm sick, it's to prevent me from becoming sick!

I prefer what's said on the BBC message board: That Diabetic clinic is disability leave not sick leave.

I haven't tried it out though so does anyone have experience of what happens in reality?


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## aymes (Feb 1, 2009)

AmandaB said:


> Oh dear, I'm confused again.
> 
> Thanks for your comments KateF but this seems to go against what it says on the messageboard Copepod gives the link to.
> 
> ...




I'm lucky in that my boss is happy for me to attend hospital when necessary and make up for missed work later. However ithink the confusion comes from what employers are legally obliged to give you in terms of leave and what they often offer contractually. Employers are not obliged to pay you for time off for medical apointments so can require you to take it as unpaid leave, the way round this us to offer for you to take it as sick leave or holiday so you don't lose money. However some employers offer for attractive medical leave policies as part contract terms.


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## hermit104 (Feb 1, 2009)

After 29 posts, it appears that no one has actually read the DDA.  It does not apply to all diabetics (e.g. people like me who are adequately contolled by diet and exercise are excluded).  For the record, people who wear glasses are specifically excluded.

Also, time for a reality check.  Unless you work in a job funded by the rest of us (whether public sector or multinational) in the present climate you would be well advised to make up time off or take it as holidays rather than standing on your rights.  Small and medium sized firms like the one I workfor are having to make staff redundant and cutting hours all over the country.  Surely time to demonstrate you are flexible and (hopefully) indispensable?


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## aymes (Feb 1, 2009)

hermit104 said:


> After 29 posts, it appears that no one has actually read the DDA.  It does not apply to all diabetics (e.g. people like me who are adequately contolled by diet and exercise are excluded).  For the record, people who wear glasses are specifically excluded.
> 
> Also, time for a reality check.  Unless you work in a job funded by the rest of us (whether public sector or multinational) in the present climate you would be well advised to make up time off or take it as holidays rather than standing on your rights.  Small and medium sized firms like the one I workfor are having to make staff redundant and cutting hours all over the country.  Surely time to demonstrate you are flexible and (hopefully) indispensable?




In the dda a disabilty is classed as something that has a 'significant an long term adverse effect on that person carrying out day to day activities' - most explantory notes will describe that this can include diabetes and there have been a number of test cases that have proven the case for diabetes as a disability under dda but there has yet to be a significant test case on diet/exercise controlled diabetes so that remains unproven against the act.and I promise you, I have read it!


Regarding your second point, I do think it is up to each of us individually to decide how we want to 'stand to our rights' regardless of the current employment issues, we each face our own challenges both in managing our condition and in attitudes we encounter along the way so I can fully understand people wanting to use the rights protected under the act as well as those who don't see it as necessary for them. I personally don't have a need for it and don't see myself as disabled but it is reassuring to know it is there if needed.


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## sofaraway (Feb 2, 2009)

For me when I have appointment I have to request the day as one of my days off. I do shift work and my manager will just work it so that I work my shift on another day. 
i have known other people though who have taken the day as sick to miss for an appointment and not asked for their shift to be changed.


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## Copepod (Feb 2, 2009)

I agree with Hermit about employees being reasonable and flexible. 

As mentioned in my post #21, I have asked for appointments at times when I will be away from work for the least possible time - in fact, my job 250 miles from home was 80% of full time, so it was in my own time, but it was a for a large, well established university, who probably had overly generous time off arrangements, which I saw being exploited by other workers (not with diabetes), which meant the rest of the team had to work longer / more antisocial hours etc.

I guess the problem would come if say the only clinic you could attend was on a Tuesday afternoon and you worked part time, always all day Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. The employer might not appreciate that you didn't have the choice to go to a clinic on Thursday or Friday. However, I am always offered the choice of 12 or 6 monthly appointments, and always take the longest option, as I don't think there'd be any benefit me going more often - and it would take an appointment that might be valuable to someone else, and at least mean they could be seen sooner.


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## jeannie (Feb 12, 2009)

*Dda?*

what is DDA?i read all the message board replies but i havent a clue what it means...in 4 wks i have been diagnosed with,,high p/b,,cholestrol..angina,,and diabetes..and im feeling disabled..and scared to death,,my b/p is sky high,,and i neither drink nor smoke,,so dont know how to control it,,i dont even know what i can or cant eat /drink..its very confusing..


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## Adrienne (Feb 12, 2009)

Hi

It stands for Disability Discrimination Act.   Diabetes is now covered under that act.   I only know about it when it is to do with a child ie excluded from school trips, not given adequate and reasonable care at school etc etc.

Adrienne


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## jeannie (Feb 12, 2009)

thk you...im new to all this,,but will soon learn,,,again thx,,,


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## Lizzie (Feb 13, 2009)

I think there is a responsiblity on the hospital here too. When I have appointments they demand on the letter that I attend half an hour before the appointment time, so the nurse can check my blood pressure and weight etc. This takes about 10 mins at most. Then I wait twenty mins for the appointment, and often at least another half hour before the doctor will actually see me. I sometimes spend an entire afternoon off, especially when travel time to get to the clinic is included, there is often not time to get back to work before we close. I cannot help it if the doctor is behind schedule. I am lucky that my employer is understanding but if they were not I don't think it would be fair for me to be penalised and waste my annual leave waiting around in the clinic or surgery because the doctor is unable to keep to their timetable. It seems hypocritical since if I am five mins late they will ring me and tell me my appointment is cancelled, yet the doctors are often half an hour or more behind schedule.

Also, the system for making appointments is ridiculous. It seems it is impossible for me to ring them or even make my next appointment when I am leaving the last one. I have to ring them and notify them that I want to make/change the appointment, and they will then write to me with a date and the letter often takes days to arrive even though I live down the road from the clinic. Therefore I cannot make an appointment at a time or day convenient to me or my employer. If, when the letter arrives, the time or day is inconvenient, I need to ring them and get them to send out another letter with another day or time which is usually several months later and still inconvenient. Again, it is the hospital system at fault but me and my employer paying the price.

Do others have these problems?


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## nicky_too (Feb 13, 2009)

Lizzie said:


> Do others have these problems?



Yes!
Just moved to the UK and therefore will have my first eye scan in this country. My GP told the hospital about it. I told the DN at the GP practice to tell the hospital I'm due in July. So what do I get? A letter with an appointment for today (received it Tuesday).

I phone the hospital to tell them about the situation. Then it appears I cannot make an appointment for July, it's too far away. So now I will get a letter with an appointment at the end of June, so I can phone around that time to get the required time and date in July. Very complicated, if you ask me.


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## Einstein (Feb 13, 2009)

I think the term 'disabled' is a label we as diabetics don't like, however, there are grounds where it is an advantage for us to have the cover of the DDA.

In the past people have seen diabetics as a risk, e.g. in a hotel or work place where someone could have a hypo, so the easy option wasn't to have that person there. Now there is cover under the DDA against such actions. We know the risk is very low, but others didn't want to have to take that on.

As diabetes continues its path through our lives and perhaps complications cross our paths, neuropathy, retinopathy etc then the DDA and our diabetic status of disabled covers us and widens the protection. We could look at it as protecting us for the future.

I am aware of a few individuals who aim to profit from taking action against companies under the DDA, claiming they are unable to gain wheelchair access, or can't see the display on a cash register. Each time they walk out with ?3k plus and as its conducted as a tribuneral (the DDA preferred means of enforcement) settlements are confidential and there is no record of how many cases one individual has brought. Clearly miss-use of the law and wrong.

As for DLA, there aren't hard and fast rules about what conditions qualify, the advice I was given is to document every element of your life in a diary for a week where someone else has had to assist you because of your disability.

If you're unable to walk and need someone to help you out of bed or your chair, can't walk a given distance without assistance, cook, clean or take care of your personal needs without assistance (and this doesn't mean you have the assistance, just that you should have it) then you are likely to be qualified for one of the three levels of DLA, then there is the mobility element as well.

My first time I filled the form in as I actually used assistance, it was rejected, the second time (not on appeal) I completed the form with assistance and was awarded DLA. You need to discuss this with your GP and other healthcare professionals you put down.

Until my deafness I didn't consider diabetes a real disability, I could walk, all was ok. However, deafness and the associated balance issues really tax me when I am out and about, I can no longer go out at night without someone else, purely because I would spend more time on the floor or grasping a wall to give me my bearings.

Seemingly many cases rejected on their first application are approved on appeal.

DLA is technically up for review as and when the condition changes, so you can go to them and tell them things have got worse, you're also supposed to tell them when things on a regular basis have improved or compeltely cleared up.
It is therefore possible for someone to be in need of assistance for the minimum period of time and to be awarded it, but when the condition is no longer an issue the DLA should be stopped or reduced.
David


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## Copepod (Feb 13, 2009)

*Disability Living Allowance*

Regarding DLA, applicants have the best chance of being awarded some level (Higher / Middle / Lower Care component and / or Higher / Lower Mobility component) if they get assistance from an advisor with specialist benefits knowledge. For those applying for benefit when over 65, only Attendence Allowance at Higher Rate (roughly equivalent to Higher Rate Care DLA) or Lower Rate (roughly equivalent to Middle Rate Care DLA) - there is no mobility component of AA. 

If turned down, then going to tribunal in person has more chance of success than a paper appeal. If going in person, then, again advice and / or representation from a specialist brings higher chance of success.

But, it is very unusual for an adult to get any rate of DLA, if they are well-controlled and have no complications or other disabilities (such as Einstein's hearing problems). It's normal for children under 16 years to get DLA at certain levels - normally MRC & LRC (possibly HRC if they need help through the night, but HRM is only for those "unable or virtually unable to walk")

There are support boards, such as http://www.youreable.com/forums/category.jspa?categoryID=6 which have more information on the topic of disability benefits.


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## Freddie99 (Feb 15, 2009)

Einstein said:


> I think the term 'disabled' is a label we as diabetics don't like, however, there are grounds where it is an advantage for us to have the cover of the DDA.
> 
> David



Well said Einstein/David, I can't stand the title disabled. I see myself as being able to do exactly what people my age do. All that I need to do is think a little harder and weigh up the pros and cons of the situation. Ok there are a few scenarios that I don't participate in because of the risk to my health - the large amounts of drinking that I know some of my friends participate in. To drink the quantities they do would be simply stupid. Though I am most definitely not disabled by any stretch of the imagination. Only other people's views and preconceptions of diabetes make us disabled in their eyes. I all would ask for is th chance to prove myself yet I am not even given the chance to do this sometimes.

Tom H


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## Elaine42 (Feb 17, 2009)

I do feel disabled, everything I do is affected by my diabetes.   If I exercise too much, if I eat too much, if I don't eat, if I'm stressed, I think this affects every part of my life.  This is not even taking into account the actual acceptance and depression that comes with diabetes, the lack of energy, not getting insulin/blood sugars right.  The statins with the ever threat of heart problems. Then there is the circulation problems, eyesight problems, how can this not be a disability. Also as my thyroid is affected, again energy levels are affected, I think I am more prone to colds and the flu.  I am classed as a vulnerable person to be eligible for the flu jab and yet not given the full benefits of the disability.


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## Einstein (Feb 17, 2009)

That's my point exactly Elaine,

It's a badge we can choose to wear or not, depending on how we feel or our physical condition is.

Some of us manage it all most of the time and don't need to wear the badge, others struggle and need the assistance that it can offer.

David


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## angel30eyes (Feb 17, 2009)

*Disability*



Elaine42 said:


> I do feel disabled, everything I do is affected by my diabetes.   If I exercise too much, if I eat too much, if I don't eat, if I'm stressed, I think this affects every part of my life.  This is not even taking into account the actual acceptance and depression that comes with diabetes, the lack of energy, not getting insulin/blood sugars right.  The statins with the ever threat of heart problems. Then there is the circulation problems, eyesight problems, how can this not be a disability. Also as my thyroid is affected, again energy levels are affected, I think I am more prone to colds and the flu.  I am classed as a vulnerable person to be eligible for the flu jab and yet not given the full benefits of the disability.



Well said huni, it does effect you every minute of everyday, you constantly worry and check, when you get ill you check and worry, the complications are life threatening but your not disabled, yeah right, since being diagnosed my life has gone from normal to omg i cant do all this stuff which yes i realise i couldn't do before and this is now a why i couldn't do it but it still doesn't make knowing any easier or make it go away over night and yes i just got full high rate disability care and yes i do have other problems but most are related to undiagnosed diabetes for years and the steroids which put me here in the first place so i think it is down to the individual person and how it affects them and their body as to whether they want to be classed as disabled or not, none of you have the right to judge other people and what they are going through, if you don't want tobe classed as disabled well then good for you but i am in pain every bloody minute of the day and have ketones because of it nearly everday so yes i class myself as DISABLED


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## AJL (Feb 17, 2009)

Diabetes affects people in different ways.  Until 3 or 4 years ago I would have never have classed myself as disabled.  However I got to the stage when I was working full-time of having absolutely no energy and being off ill. At my request I went back to work on a part-time contract and only had one day off ill until I changed jobs - they wouldn't consider me going part-time in this job as a reasonable adjustment.  However I very much wanted the job and as it was a choice of full-time or not getting I went for it and did absolutely everything I could to keep myself well.  Except after only a few weeks the problems that this caused me with managing my diabetes, including ketones,  exacerbated by extreme fatigue and frequent headaches and migraines (with aura) meant that I was again off ill for several weeks - my GP strongly recommended that I went back to work only on a part-time basis.  I did this by returning to my previous job just over a year ago and now the only time that I have major problems is if I don't pace myself and take on too much work.  I would absolutely love to work full-time because I completely and totally love my job - but I've had to accept that the disability  prevents me from working full-time - and it has also had an effect on my close family and work colleagues who did everything that they can to protect me from taking on too much......but not being able to do everything that I want to do is extremely frustrating.


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## Lizzie (Feb 17, 2009)

I agree with Elaine. I definitely feel disabled by my diabetes, it stops me leading a normal life. I have to bring a suitcase of supplies every time I go out, I always need to be on top of my repeat prescription since different things run out at different times and there is a 2 day wait for the doctor to sign a bit of paper and even then the chemist might not have the item in stock. Then there is all the testing, counting and checking. You can't just go off somewhere or eat something or get blind drunk, the diabetes always has to be considered. Even after 16 years I struggle to keep my blood sugars in range, I tend to panic and overtreat hypos and hypers. Then there is the worry about complications. I envy those of you who manage to live action-packed lives despite having diabetes. Then there are the emotional problems, rebellion and anger and depression and fury at my own useless body for failing me like this so I have to help it along every day when it should just work properly like normal bodies do.

And yet because people cannot see my diabetes, they don't think I am disabled. To me having a non-functioning pancreas is just as valid as having non-functioning legs or eyes or any other important body part and it is frustrating that when people think of disability they think of people in a wheelchair or with other visible physical disabilities and don't consider non-visible disabilities.


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## ceara (Apr 24, 2009)

Hello everyone.

I have just joined tonight and was interested with your discussion.  I am a member of a Disability Tribunal so now have two views.  I don't consider myself to be disabled but do feel that my employer should make reasonable adjustments to my working practices ot accommodate my diabetes i.e.  appointments.


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## ivygirl (Apr 24, 2009)

I didn't know diabetics were considered disabled!  I presume that must only refer to T1 and not us T2s.  What does it mean exactly?


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## sofaraway (Apr 25, 2009)

ceara- is it reasonable for an employer to give time off for appointments? I have an appointment in a couple of weeks time and to go will be late for work, but work owes me 3 hours from when I stayed late to help out. I was going to take this time so could start later.


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## mikep1979 (Apr 25, 2009)

ive never thought i have a disability and if i ever thought it i wouldnt be doing some of the things i do. saying that i do agree that it takes up so much of your life in the fact we have to be so careful about what we eat etc, but my saying is " i rule my diabetes it doesnt rule me". if you think you cant do something then your mind wont let you complete/do it. this is a big phycological thing and im a firm believer that i can do anything if i set my mind to it. well folks thats my stance on it.


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## Einstein (Apr 25, 2009)

ivygirl said:


> I didn't know diabetics were considered disabled! I presume that must only refer to T1 and not us T2s. What does it mean exactly?


 
The DDA applies to type 1 and type 2 diabetics, however, there is something at the back of my mind relating to type twos needing to be on medication, not sure if just tablets or insulin. Or I could be wrong on that front altogether.

The law states the employer must make reasonable adjustments to cater for your needs, e.g. if your work involves working shifts, the patterns must account for your mealtime and medication regimes. As it must time for snacking etc.

In addition if you have time off sick through diabetes or an effect of it, then they can not readily discipline you, however, if your time from work is due to poor management and is persistant, it is a different matter.

That then leads to employers granting employees time from work to attend appointments, employers don't have a right to grant you free time for hospital or doctors appointments, it is from annual leave or unpaid time off. Some treat hospital appointments differently to GPs. Some don't, some, often small companies don't care as long as its not half a day every day for a couple of weeks.

This is why I have said openly on here before about the idea of twice a year, diabetics being called to a multi-discipline clinic for a day, to have eyes, feet, bloods, diet the whole works tested in one day and then see the consultant at the end of the day to discuss the findings.

It should mean we don't slip through the gaps of appointments etc and we and our employers loose less time through time from work. And the PCT/NHS can then say they have done all clinic assessments on x % of diabetics and know they actually have.

Anyway, getting the NHS to listen to such a daft idea would never work!


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## Adrienne (Apr 25, 2009)

Hi

I haven't read all the replies as my daughter is waiting for me to watch Primevil and she is giving me 'stares'.  

I don't think of my daughter as disabled at all but if we do things, anything really then there is extra thought and planning than little Jane down the road who isn't diabetic (Jane is a made up person).    Jessica doesn't go off to friends houses for tea as the responsibilty for parents is too great, I would have to tell them how to treat a hypo and how to test etc.  Jessica has no symptoms at all.

She has been to tea at a friends whose daughter also has diabetes and had her first ever sleepover at this friend's house two weeks ago and she is 9 years old.    

So although she isn't 'disabled' as the word describes as we know it ie in the wheelchair etc etc.   I believe the statistic is something like only 5% of 'disabled' people are in a wheelchair. 

Diabetes is covered under the DDA which classes it as disabled.   This is ok and is a good thing really.    Jessica could never go anywhere alone due to no symptoms and if she does have a severe hypo (which she can do even on a pump) then she will always need a friend or family with her.   This means in effect they are her carer.   Someone said what benefits can you get.   

You can get Disability Living Allowance.  The forms are horrendous but you can get it, when filling them in you have to put worst case scenario.   This will then entitle (in certain places when you produce it) a carer either goes in free or they get a discount.   At Madam Tuassards the disabled person and carer both go in free.

At Chessington and Thorpe Park etc a carer goes free and if you say you words correctly then you get an exit pass and skip the queues.

There is the Cea card (there is a website) for cinemas where a carer goes free.  Also ring the Theatres and anyway and ask if they have carers or diasabled peoples allowances for anything.

This is not cheating in any way, shape or form.  Diabetes is covered under the DDA and you are entitled to this sort of thing.

However as Graham's mum has said being covered under the DDA helps a huge amount at school.    People including teachers do not think diabetes is serious, it is invisible and just dismissed.    For it to be covered under the DDA it means they have to sit up and listen and our children can then be safe at school (although this doesn't happen in loads and loads of places).

That is a very small part of my view on this, if I don't stop the stare will become bigger and more menacing and I'll bore you all!!


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## ceara (Apr 25, 2009)

Hello Sofaraway

Def.  your employer is mandated under Disability Discrimination legislation to make reasonable adjustments - and getting time off work for appointments is a reasonable adjustment.  So would asking for 30 mins. out of work for a walk to get you BS down.  The main point is 'reasonable'  this has been tested in court many times.  Are you a public servant/civil servant?

Ceara


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## Copepod (Apr 25, 2009)

*Disability Living Allowance*

While it's correct to say that children (up to 16 years) with diabetes can get Disability Living Allowance (usually Low or Medium Rate Care and Lower Rate Mobility), it's very unusual for an adult with any type of diabetes to get DLA at any rate of either Care or Mobility components, unless they also have complications and / or other medical problems giving rise to care and / or mobility needs - it's how the condition affects a person, rather than the diagnosis that is the key point. People aged over 65 years can not apply for DLA for the first time, but can apply for Attendance Allowance, which has only 2 rates of care, and none for mobility.


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## Adrienne (Apr 25, 2009)

Copepod said:


> While it's correct to say that children (up to 16 years) with diabetes can get Disability Living Allowance (usually Low or Medium Rate Care and Lower Rate Mobility), it's very unusual for an adult with any type of diabetes to get DLA at any rate of either Care or Mobility components, unless they also have complications and / or other medical problems giving rise to care and / or mobility needs - it's how the condition affects a person, rather than the diagnosis that is the key point. People aged over 65 years can not apply for DLA for the first time, but can apply for Attendance Allowance, which has only 2 rates of care, and none for mobility.


 Oh ok, may be this will change with the advances being made ie pumps, as pumps require many more tests than the mixed injections etc, who knows.

A few of my friends have DLA still paid for this children over 16 !!   Also most have higher rate of care and only some have lower rate of mobility.   If anyone on our other email list gets given lower or medium care we recommend they appeal and they generally then get higher rate.  The higher rate is about overnight testing and most of us do it.


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## katie (Apr 26, 2009)

ivygirl said:


> I didn't know diabetics were considered disabled!  I presume that must only refer to T1 and not us T2s.  What does it mean exactly?



errr, thanks for that...


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## sofaraway (Apr 26, 2009)

ceara said:


> Hello Sofaraway
> 
> Def.  your employer is mandated under Disability Discrimination legislation to make reasonable adjustments - and getting time off work for appointments is a reasonable adjustment.  So would asking for 30 mins. out of work for a walk to get you BS down.  The main point is 'reasonable'  this has been tested in court many times.  Are you a public servant/civil servant?
> 
> Ceara



thanks for that. I would think that they would say a reasonable adjustment though would be to change my day off so that it falls on same day as my appointment and I then work a day at the weekend instead. I am an NHS worker.


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