# should people who dont abide by the lockdown rules, be 1) named and shamed by the police or 2) heavily fined and/or imprisoned



## Jane50 (Apr 8, 2020)

1 or 2   -  answers please


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## Docb (Apr 8, 2020)

Neither, but then I rarely think that you have to go to extremes to deal with anything.


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## Kaylz (Apr 8, 2020)

There would be no chance of imprisonment, they are talking about letting prisoners that aren't a risk go early because of the current situation so they wouldn't fill it up with people for leaving lockdown
Its too difficult to police


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## Pumper_Sue (Apr 8, 2020)

If people go on unnecessary car journeys ie holidays then as been told not allowed their ins is invalid so points on licence a fine and crush the car as well. Problem solved.


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## Ditto (Apr 8, 2020)

I agree with that last but also feel a tad guilty, are we all gonna get a free pitchfork.


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## Eddy Edson (Apr 8, 2020)

We seem to have gone with "strong encouragement" followed by fines and occasionally prison for f*ckwhits who still don't get it (breaching quarantine to visit yr significant other will quite likely land you in the clink here).

I was hoping they might be able to also slip in bastinado for youths with loud motorcycles but no such luck.


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## trophywench (Apr 8, 2020)

Well - one can make practically anything with a motor far too loud should one rev it constantly.  However with the price of petrol these days most people choose not to!

There seem to be more than enough people online here there and everywhere suggesting there should be lynch gangs operating so no and were the PPE not so difficult I'd rather conscript them and force them to work (eg scrubbing floors)  in a hospital for hours on end wearing it.


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## belugalad (Apr 8, 2020)

I don't know the answer but even if people have to write the year off,they should have more about them and do their bit to save their lives and the lives of others.
It makes me wonder if people are still going abroad, it was only a couple of weeks ago that people were still on cruises and holidays abroad,I couldn't belive it.
I went on a 2 mile brisk walk the last 2 mornings and nearly went out again last night but remembered that it's against the laws so didn't,I'm tidying up my diet and trimming down on carbs again to drop more weight


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## Jane50 (Apr 8, 2020)

I do take two walks, but one is only very short, no more than 10 mins, probably less this morning, as ran out of doggy do bags


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## belugalad (Apr 8, 2020)

Jane50 said:


> I do take two walks, but one is only very short, no more than 10 mins, probably less this morning, as ran out of doggy do bags


I have the worlds nosiest neigbours they probably would have reported me haha


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## Drummer (Apr 8, 2020)

People who disobey the lockdown should be sent to work behind the scenes at the mortuaries and crematoria for a week.


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## Jane50 (Apr 8, 2020)

Drummer said:


> People who disobey the lockdown should be sent to work behind the scenes at the mortuaries and crematoria for a week.


And I only meant that for the rules that can be enforced, like going out in a crowd, sunbathing, barbecues, and parties, and meeting up with family and friends, not the once a day exercise or the infrequent shopping, because even I am breaking that in some ways


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## Pumper_Sue (Apr 8, 2020)

Jane50 said:


> And I only meant that for the rules that can be enforced, like going out in a crowd, sunbathing, barbecues, and parties, and meeting up with family and friends, not the once a day exercise or the infrequent shopping, because even I am breaking that in some ways


Perhaps just round the people up and put them in pens like you would cattle and say you want to socialise, carry on. Just chuck some food over the barriers so they don't starve. The general public is then safe. Sounds harsh but then so is this virus.


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## Jane50 (Apr 8, 2020)

Pumper_Sue said:


> Perhaps just round the people up and put them in pens like you would cattle and say you want to socialise, carry on. Just chuck some food over the barriers so they don't starve. The general public is then safe. Sounds harsh but then so is this virus.


true, but only for the ones that break the enforceable rules



Pumper_Sue said:


> Perhaps just round the people up and put them in pens like you would cattle and say you want to socialise, carry on. Just chuck some food over the barriers so they don't starve. The general public is then safe. Sounds harsh but then so is this virus.


I had better be good if you think that is a suitable punishment for those going on barbecues, and picnics and sunbathing, what would you suggest for the things the police cannot enforce


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## Dave W (Apr 8, 2020)

Hard to legislate for stupidity or asocial behaviour but imposition of fines might perhaps help 'encourager les autres.'


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## Jane50 (Apr 9, 2020)

Dave W said:


> Hard to legislate for stupidity or asocial behaviour but imposition of fines might perhaps help 'encourager les autres.'
> View attachment 13857


I would like to know what sort of punishment somebody would want for someone who does more than one daily exercise, or does shopping more frequently than they should, when the police cannot enforce these two things


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## Robin (Apr 9, 2020)

Jane50 said:


> I would like to know what sort of punishment somebody would want for someone who does more than one daily exercise, or does shopping more frequently than they should, when the police cannot enforce these two things


Living with the guilt for the rest of their lives, that they caused suffering by taking up space in shops or parks that other people needed to use for their once a week shop, or once daily walk. Or worse, taking up space that caused others to have to get too close to each other, and spread the virus further than it need, causing an unnecessary death somewhere along the line. (Trouble is, they would never know just how far the ripples in the pond had gone from the 'stone' they threw in).


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## everydayupsanddowns (Apr 9, 2020)

Jane50 said:


> I would like to know what sort of punishment somebody would want for someone who does more than one daily exercise, or does shopping more frequently than they should, when the police cannot enforce these two things



The police are already issuing fines @Jane50, plus breaking up groups and patrolling areas where problematic behaviour exists.

I think they are quite rightly taking a fairly gentle approach though. It remains to be seen quite what will happen over the sunny Easter weekend.

There are also charity/youth worker people trying to engage with groups of youngsters who are continuing to congregate, just to stress the importance that while they may feel invincible, the potiential impact is on their families and older relatives.

But as you yourself know, there are often compelling reasons why we each might be tempted to bend the rules and to go out a few more times that are perhaps strictly necessary and unavoidable.


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## Pumper_Sue (Apr 9, 2020)

I popped into town this morning to collect prescriptions for various people plus my own and was shocked to see queues outside the supermarkets again. So where have all the people come from to cause this? The town in question is along the North Cornwall coast.


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## nonethewiser (Apr 9, 2020)

Cumbria police stopped cars yesterday heading for lakes, 2 from Manchester other West Yorkshire, escorted back to motorway by traffic cops.

Expect with bank holiday weekend more covoidiots will be turned back.


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## Ditto (Apr 9, 2020)

I was ashamed today watching the Channel 4 news. Manchester suburbs are just plain embarrassing. Forget the pitchfork somebody pass me an uzi.


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## AndBreathe (Apr 9, 2020)

Pumper_Sue said:


> I popped into town this morning to collect prescriptions for various people plus my own and was shocked to see queues outside the supermarkets again. So where have all the people come from to cause this? The town in question is along the North Cornwall coast.



Sue - The issue is that so few are allowed to be in shops at any given time, the queues form.  My neighbour was telling me (by phone) they had joined a very long queue at Tesco, but it had moved quickly, so whilst alarmed to join the queue, it was "OK really".

Of course, it has been great weather for a decent queuing.


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## trophywench (Apr 9, 2020)

I read a brilliant retort from someone random encountered by the reporter whilst accompanying the official security teams throughout the Birmingham city centre, encountering a maintenance man who'd been regularly verbally abused and had his 2m space invaded by low lives who said, 'It's impossible to educate mud!'


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## Pumper_Sue (Apr 9, 2020)

AndBreathe said:


> Sue - The issue is that so few are allowed to be in shops at any given time, the queues form.  My neighbour was telling me (by phone) they had joined a very long queue at Tesco, but it had moved quickly, so whilst alarmed to join the queue, it was "OK really".
> 
> Of course, it has been great weather for a decent queuing.


Last week w had no queues at all, hence it was a shock. There were no queues for lidl though B&M had queues.
Unfortunately for me though I just can not stand in one place for long so queuing for things is out of the question. I just grabbed what I could from Lidl for my neighbour and once paid for came home.


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## Hepato-pancreato (Apr 9, 2020)

Very difficult to enforce. First off if you were stopped all you would have to say is you were on way to the shop. What are essentials? A lot say milk. Why if you don't drink tea or coffee or lactose intolerant it is far from essential. Full of loopholes if anything went to court be hard to find you guilty. Common sense is needed. At last people are getting jailed for spitting,coughing at nhs,police etc..this is far more important. All the social distancing fine until you enter the supermarket or get on a tube train. Nz had 1 death, Australia 51. ?????


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## Eddy Edson (Apr 10, 2020)

South Australian premier at press conference today asking people to stop harassing & reporting little family and household groups at the beach and in the parks. 

In my neighbourhood Good Friday gaggles of people getting essential take-away skinny decaff frappacinos from now take-away-only cafes.

It's going to be bloody hard to keep this distancing/sort-of-lock-down thing going if we keep getting just a few new cases a day & no signs of community transmission.

Anyway, for the nothing it's worth, I have concluded:

1. Asymptomatic cases are really rare and they hardly transmit, if at all; or if they do, the viral load is so small that the recipient is almost always asymptomatic and transmits even less.

If asymptomatic was a big thing, we'd be seeing community transmission in my part of the world, which we aren't. We have things like eg a group of Swiss tourists infecting a couple of restaurants in a wine district, but no cases popping up out of nowhere as a result of that. Ditto for a group of baggage handlers at the airport.

2. Transmission happens when people get together and spend at least say 15 min time together close enough that they are basically spitting in each others' faces. 

So - anywhere where there is wide spread testing, the most cases are in the 20-29 year old range: clubs, pubs, share accomodation, diverse fornication. Also: church gatherings, weddings, funerals, goddamn cruise ships (but *not* through the ventilation system), people living together, giving your old gran a big long hug.

A German epi group doing field work in the German epicentre fhas ound no evidence of live virus on surfaces even in heavily-infected households. To get the thing from a doorknob, an infected person would have had to spit on his hands and used the knob just before you did, followed immediately by you touching your face.

Shopping in a reasonably uncrowded supermarket, walking in a reasonably uncrowded park, swimming at a reasonably uncrowded beach - no problem. Crowded tube - avoid!

3. This is the reason why this is different to flu and why all the flu modellers should pull their heads in.  Moderate distancing works, you can break chains relatively easily, and complete eradication is achievable.

4. This should have been evident from the time of the release of the WHO China working group report back in late Feb, which made the same points, and which led NZ to adopt an eradication strategy, with Oz harrumphing a couple of steps behind.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Apr 10, 2020)

Pumper_Sue said:


> Last week w had no queues at all, hence it was a shock. There were no queues for lidl though B&M had queues.
> Unfortunately for me though I just can not stand in one place for long so queuing for things is out of the question. I just grabbed what I could from Lidl for my neighbour and once paid for came home.



I think some of that is just unlucky timing. I went to the supermarket to attempt a 2-week shop early in the week and had to wait in a long queue (snaking through barriers) though it did move quickly and probably took less than 3-5 minutes to get into the shop.

As I was leaving, there was no queue at all, and I overheard the carpark staff saying, “No it’s been fine... but it was weird at half eleven cos suddenly everyone turned up at once!”


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## Jane50 (Apr 10, 2020)

nonethewiser said:


> Cumbria police stopped cars yesterday heading for lakes, 2 from Manchester other West Yorkshire, escorted back to motorway by traffic cops.
> 
> Expect with bank holiday weekend more covoidiots will be turned back.


I have just read something that settles my mind, they have now said that adults and children with mental health and autism, can go out more than once a day, and somebody else commented and said it has always been said, that you can go out for medical reasons, so mental health would come into medical needs, which my daughter has, and me being diabetic, I can also say I am out for medical needs, to bring blood glucose levels down.


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## Inka (Apr 10, 2020)

I’d hope people would comply with regulations for the greater good and not try to find loopholes or excuses that they could use to disobey the rules.

If we all looked for loopholes, I’m sure we could find some, but why on earth would we want to do that? We’d only be harming ourselves and others, and ensuring this lockdown goes on even longer.

I think people who persistently and flagrantly breach the rules should be fined, but also educated. I read that one teenager at a house party attended by police said he didn’t believe in the virus. He won’t be alone. Others think it only affects those over 70, etc.

The Bindmans ruling that Jane refers to above must come as a relief for Carers of people with learning disabilities and autism. Those were specific cases that made sense - a child who needed to be taken somewhere non-local due to problems with complying with/understanding social distancing. An exemption for that child and for those with learning difficulties that require specific exercise conditions are sensible. But most people are able to comply - and should. 

So not exactly 1 or 2, but a proportionate fine with education is what I’d answer, and that only after a warning, unless the breach was bad.


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## Amity Island (Apr 11, 2020)

Jane50 said:


> 1 or 2   -  answers please


When the first coronavirus were issued, they were aimed at detaining and testing only those that were thought to show symptoms of covid19 in other words, those that were risking the health of others. Those regulations were revoked recently and replaced with the blanket ban on the whole country.

Now it doesn't matter if you have, have had, don't have, might have the virus, you are now treated as if you have it.

So the rules have changed and made everyone a potential carrier regardless if their condition.


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## Robin (Apr 11, 2020)

Amity Island said:


> Now it doesn't matter if you have, have had, don't have, might have the virus, you are now treated as if you have it.
> 
> So the rules have changed and made everyone a culprit regardless if their condition.


People can have it and be infectious days before they develop symptoms, and the news from South Korea is that some people who have had it are testing positive again. I don’t like the word 'culprit' but I think the only safe thing to do is assume that anyone might be capable of infecting others at any point.


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## trophywench (Apr 11, 2020)

Yeah - it's that chart with the three matchstick men each infecting 3 people ad infinitum with the comparison with one not visiting their mother etc, that really brought and still brings it, home to me.


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## Amity Island (Apr 11, 2020)

Inka said:


> I’d hope people would comply with regulations for the greater good and not try to find loopholes or excuses that they could use to disobey the rules.
> 
> If we all looked for loopholes, I’m sure we could find some, but why on earth would we want to do that? We’d only be harming ourselves and others, and ensuring this lockdown goes on even longer.


Very well said! 

It's the spirit of rules and regulations that we should be striving to meet, not spend hours, weeks, months analysing them for get outs.


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## Amity Island (Apr 11, 2020)

Robin said:


> People can have it and be infectious days before they develop symptoms, and the news from South Korea is that some people who have had it are testing positive again. I don’t like the word 'culprit' but I think the only safe thing to do is assume that anyone might be capable of infecting others at any point.


Fair point, I've revised my wording. lol I used the word "culprit" after all the publicity on the way the public are being treated by the police as a result of the new laws.









						Police arrest man for running errands for his mother
					

The officer put the handcuffs on the man for 'breaking covid rules' in Fallowfield, Manchester. The force said the incident wasn't dealt with in the professional way they expect and apologised.



					www.dailymail.co.uk


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## Amity Island (Apr 11, 2020)

Robin said:


> some people who have had it are testing positive again.


Yes, could be that it stays in the body for weeks rather than days.


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## Jane50 (Apr 11, 2020)

https://mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-change-lockdown-rules-means-21838155 
They have spelt the name of solicitor wrong in this, but it is true, people with mental health and autism, can go out more times for exercise when needed, and in some ways it can include diabetics who want to exercise instead of taking extra insulin, and it can also include people with asthma, as they can both use the ruling that you can go out for medical needs


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## Inka (Apr 11, 2020)

It’s quite specific, Jane. The ruling uses the word “requires” and talks of care plans. I know you’ve mentioned your daughter previously and I’d think she’s more likely to qualify rather than you. You’d have to show a requirement that your blood sugar could only be controlled by exercise _outdoors _and that’s not the case. 

The general idea is to keep the numbers outside to a minimum so any exceptions will only apply to a small number of people else we’d have millions out with diabetes, obesity, etc etc.


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## Jane50 (Apr 11, 2020)

that is what I do, I carry my testing things with me, and exercise works better than insulin, as taking extra insulin, it can go the other way, and I would end up in hospital


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## Inka (Apr 11, 2020)

Jane50 said:


> that is what I do, I carry my testing things with me, and exercise works better than insulin, as taking extra insulin, it can go the other way, and I would end up in hospital



Then if you’re only going out to exercise once a day then you’re fine  

The point I was making was that someone with diabetes couldn’t claim having diabetes somehow meant they must exercise outside more than once a day. They don’t have to exercise outside as they can exercise inside and still get their blood sugar down.

Having diabetes wouldn’t qualify as an exemption from the once-a-day rule because there’s no requirement that the person’s exercise needs to be taken outside. So, people with diabetes can exercise after every meal if they choose to, but that exercise can be done in the house. Nothing about having diabetes means a person must go outside twice or more daily.


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## Andy HB (Apr 12, 2020)

@Jane50. If your behaviour does not put anyone else at additional risk, then your conscience will be clear.

You can tell that to any police officer in the unlikely event that they stop you.

Stay well.


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## Jane50 (Apr 12, 2020)

Andy HB said:


> @Jane50. If your behaviour does not put anyone else at additional risk, then your conscience will be clear.
> 
> You can tell that to any police officer in the unlikely event that they stop you.
> 
> Stay well.


I am not likely to meet a police officer, as the first walk is only 15 minutes-20 minster down our road , round the corner and back down our road, we also have a retired policeman as a neighbour , and when my son told him why I Did it, he said it would be fine, I also make sure when I go on second walk I send my son to get any essential items that I need,


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## atoll (Apr 12, 2020)

into our fifth week  of isolation on our yacht with no shoreside human contacts ,it would really be nice to go out for a sail today, and catch some fresh mackerel to replenish the larder but we have refrained as i feel this would be against the spirit of the dirt dwellers lockdown.

my biggest passtime at the moment is observing daily arrival of all those shoreside superspreaders spending the day on the beach or,out fishing,or on paddle boards,or in power boats etc.

many of the homes around the bay we are anchored in are holiday homes/second homes.
last month very few were occupied,evidenced by the lack of lights at night.
currently every evening when the lights come on we see more evidence of newly arrived occupants.

lucky we have enough food left to get us through till august!
as flouting the rules will probably extend the lock down not by weeks, but by months.

great to see that MOST people are playing by the rules,but still see an entitled few with their own interpretation of the rules out there!

(as a side note we are full time yacht liveaboards,35years now, who's normal mooring is alongside a building used by the cadet corps,and unfortunatly for us is the designated center to be used by the council,army,police etc for civil defence in the event of a natural disaster which as we both need to isolate for health reasons left us with the choice of finding a hotel to isolate in or moving our home to another safer location.)

happy easter to all those in isolation,and to those out there doing critical work keeping us all safe!


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