# Doctors told to ditch Latin and use 'plain English'



## Northerner (Sep 4, 2018)

Doctors are being told to adopt a new policy of writing letters that are easier for patients to understand.

The Academy of Medical Royal Colleges says too often correspondence contains complex medical jargon rather than plain and simple English.

Using the phrase "twice daily" to explain the dosing of a medicine is better than the Latin abbreviation "bd", for example.

Patients should ask their local hospital to comply, the academy says.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45394620


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## mikeyB (Sep 4, 2018)

You have to ask yourself cui bono.

If you’ve been referred to the coronary clinic, or paediatric clinic you might get a vague idea why you’re there. And if schools could teach folk the difference between acute and chronic, that might be a good start - many people use the word chronic to mean severe when referring to pain.

And pharmacists always translate dosage instructions into plain English, the Latin just saves time when writing prescriptions. PRN is easier than writing “when required”.

That’s the doctor’s defence. 

Quod erat demonstradum?


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## Northerner (Sep 4, 2018)

mikeyB said:


> Quod erat demonstradum?


Caecillius in atrium est


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## mikeyB (Sep 4, 2018)

6/10. Grammar. That’s Caecillius est in atrium.


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## Robin (Sep 4, 2018)

mikeyB said:


> 6/10. Grammar. That’s Caecillius est in atrium.


Er, shouldn't that be Caecilius est in atrio?


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## Ljc (Sep 4, 2018)

My mum had a very apt saying that I think covers this and I’ve always believed what my mum told me  
“My girl you’ve got a tongue in your head”
Personally I have no problem with medical jargon, codes  etc in letters say to my Gp  that are copied to me, in my old line of work we had plenty of our own, it lessens the risks of misunderstanding by ones colleagues


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## Ljc (Sep 4, 2018)

I see I’m going to have to do some googling now


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## mikeyB (Sep 4, 2018)

Robin said:


> Er, shouldn't that be Caecilius est in atrio?



Possibly. In can indicate into, which will take the accusative, or in, which takes the ablative. Eg “I’m into heavy metal” is accusative. “I’m in a rise and recline armchair” is  ablative, as well as comfortable.


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## Mark T (Sep 4, 2018)

You are not the messiah, you're a very naughty boy

Sorry, people writing latin tends to grab a specific memory


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## Eddy Edson (Sep 4, 2018)

Northerner said:


> Caecillius in atrium est



OMG that takes me back. I think I was in the last year in which you were forced to do Latin & the first year which used that course.


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## robert@fm (Sep 4, 2018)

Is "et in arcadia ego" Latin for "I got on the high-score table"?


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## mikeyB (Sep 5, 2018)

I did Latin in the first couple of years at grammar school, but gave it up. I was then forced to do Latin O-level alongside my A-levels, because it was believed that the bright kids destined for Oxford or Cambridge had to have O-level Latin. Got a good grade, too.

So much for that theory, then


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## Eddy Edson (Sep 5, 2018)

mikeyB said:


> I did Latin in the first couple of years at grammar school, but gave it up. I was then forced to do Latin O-level alongside my A-levels, because it was believed that the bright kids destined for Oxford or Cambridge had to have O-level Latin. Got a good grade, too.
> 
> So much for that theory, then



I was more-or-less forced to do Latin until final years at school - it was either that or Indonesian, which for some reason was reserved for the "lower streams". The Cambridge Latin Course "Caecilius in horto est" killed all my interest in the subject - surprised to see how popular it is now after all the years. Part of the reason I didn't like it I guess was because I felt sorry for the Mr Chipps-ish Latin master, who obviously hated the new-fangled thing & knew that his beloved teaching field was in a big decline.

Then at Uni I elected to major in Classical Greek, alongside Computer Science.  I'm not sure why, but those years are a bit of a pot-blur.  It was one of the stranger academic experiences - in 2nd year I was the only student, with 4 different lecturers, one of whom kept trying to fondle my knee. I didn't do very well.

I did, however, learn to chant the first 20 lines of the Odyssey. My lecturer said I sounded like "a young Athenian". Proud moment!


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## Northerner (Sep 5, 2018)

Eddy Edson said:


> The Cambridge Latin Course "Caecilius in horto est"


Yes! That's it - I was trying to remember the name of the course  I went on to do Classical Studies. The Latin teacher was also the Russian teacher, and I took up Russian at O-Level, then went on to get a degree in it!  I remember I learned more about English grammar from studying French


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## Robin (Sep 5, 2018)

Northerner said:


> Yes! That's it - I was trying to remember the name of the course  I went on to do Classical Studies. The Latin teacher was also the Russian teacher, and I took up Russian at O-Level, then went on to get a degree in it!  I remember I learned more about English grammar from studying French


I missed out on Caecilius, the year below had him, and my younger friends on the train seemed to be enjoying their Latin homework far more. We all did Latin O level except for a few who weren't destined for A levels, who did Domestic Science instead. I had to teach myself to cook later on.


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## Pine Marten (Sep 5, 2018)

Quid dicis? Noli stultus esse!


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## Robin (Sep 5, 2018)

Pine Marten said:


> Quid dicis? Noli stultus esse!


Thank goodness for Google translate! My Latin ain't what it used to be!


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## Eddy Edson (Sep 5, 2018)

Northerner said:


> Yes! That's it - I was trying to remember the name of the course  I went on to do Classical Studies. The Latin teacher was also the Russian teacher, and I took up Russian at O-Level, then went on to get a degree in it!  I remember I learned more about English grammar from studying French



My Estonian/Russian step-mother taught me some during the brief time we got on with each other.

я немного говорю по-русски


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## Mark T (Sep 5, 2018)

Driving this a bit more off topic 

Since it's getting near the point where we have to select secondary schools for the little one; I've been nosing around the local grammar.  But I'm somewhat put off because they teach Latin in place of Computer Science.  I consider Computer Science to be the more important.

The schools myself and my wife went to never taught Latin.  I assumed that you never saw it outside of a grammar - but maybe that was different in the past.


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## Eddy Edson (Sep 5, 2018)

Mark T said:


> Driving this a bit more off topic
> 
> Since it's getting near the point where we have to select secondary schools for the little one; I've been nosing around the local grammar.  But I'm somewhat put off because they teach Latin in place of Computer Science.  I consider Computer Science to be the more important.
> 
> The schools myself and my wife went to never taught Latin.  I assumed that you never saw it outside of a grammar - but maybe that was different in the past.



I've certainly found my Computer Science major more useful than the Classical Greek major in later life, never having been in a situation where chanting the first 20 lines of the Odyssey was likely to add much value.


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## eggyg (Sep 5, 2018)

Now you’re all just showing off, I went to a inner city comprehensive school, nearest we got to Latin was.... well never! Re the original subject, Mr Eggy spent nearly a full day on Dr Google translating his letter from the Freeman coronary department, but he got there in the end! When he saw the news yesterday he didn’t agree, he just said if he could Google so could everyone else!


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## Lisa66 (Sep 5, 2018)

Half a dozen of us in my French class at my secondary school were given the opportunity to go to the local sixth form college, after school on a Wednesday, to learn Latin. That sounded good, until we realised it clashed with tennis practice, all but one of us were in the school team, guess which all but one of us went to?  I think the headmistress was disappointed in us, she wasn't a very sporty lady. Still, one girl went.


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## robert@fm (Sep 5, 2018)

robert@fm said:


> Is "et in arcadia ego" Latin for "I got on the high-score table"?


Strangely, according to the Googlefish "Et in Arcadia ego" is Latin for... "Et in Arcadia ego".


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## TheClockworkDodo (Sep 6, 2018)

I always use latin names for plants - far too many of the English names have lots of regional variations and mean different things to different people, and I assume it's the same for medical terminology:  if doctors use too much plain English they can't be sure their words will mean the same to all their patients.  Better to use the correct terminology and have people who don't understand it ask what it means or look it up than to use ordinary words which are open to misinterpretation and misunderstanding.


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