# Another Newbie



## Crispycrystal (Dec 8, 2019)

Hi, I am a 66 year old man, who just found out from the results of a blood test that I am diabetic. The doctor told me I scored 68 on a scale where 42 to 48 was normal. I am seeing him again tomorrow to get the result of a fasting blood test and HbA1c test. I’ve bought a finger prick test meter and watched my early morning results slowly go down from 9.3 to 5.9 whilst my weight has reduced from about 84 to 81kg. BMI of about 28). The day of my last doctors visit ( Monday) I stopped taking sugar in drinks, stopped drinking beer, severely reduced potatoes, rice and portion sizes. I’m drinking sparkling spring water (2litres) a day, and walking around 10000 steps a day. Before last Monday, I was having pretty big portions of food at mealtimes, including potatoes, rice, eating a lot of sweets and snacking most of the evening on cake, peanuts etc. And drinking 1 or 2 bottles of beer most days. I’ve read the 8 Week BSD diet book by Michael Mosley, and I want to try to get Blood sugar levels back to normal by following his advice. I’m pretty sure my doctor will start me on Metformin tomorrow. My question is, should I try to persuade him to delay that for a few weeks to see what my change in eating habits can achieve, or take the tablets whilst adopting the change in eating habits, maybe getting to the point where I can stop? My father has been taking Metformin for about 40 years, but eats normally still at 91.  2 of my grandparents were type 2 diabetics and my sister is type 1.  Any advice also will be  gratefully received.i think I am still in a bit of shock!


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## Bruce Stephens (Dec 8, 2019)

Crispycrystal said:


> The doctor told me I scored 68 on a scale where 42 to 48 was normal. I am seeing him again tomorrow to get the result of a fasting blood test and HbA1c test.



68 is in the range of HbA1c, and 42-48 as normal also matches that. (Though 42-48 is the slightly nebulous "pre-diabetic" range rather than normal. Below 42 is also in the range of normal.)

Surely can't be that much of a shock given that half of your grandparents and your father had type 2? But what you're doing seems sensible. I imagine metformin is rather attractive to GPs: it's widely used (so safe, albeit with some known side effects), cheap, and pretty effective.


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## Martin9 (Dec 9, 2019)

Hi @Crispycrystal 
It is all a bit of a shock when you are first diagnosed , but it sounds like you are making the changes to your diet that you need to reduce your blood glucose levels.
Are you self testing your blood sugars daily so you know if your dietary changes are having the desired effect and reducing your blood sugar levels.
My advice would be to accept the Metformin if your GP advises it, to help get your blood levels down at first, you can always reduce them afterwards, thereby reducing your chances of some of the complications of diabetes


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## Ljc (Dec 9, 2019)

Hi @Crispycrystal , welcome to the forum.  You seem to have a good handle in this condition already but please do ask any questions you have about diabetes as we have some very knowledgeable people on here. 

 Yes your Hb1ac of 68 is high but many of us were higher at diagnosis , I was over 100, that was years ago now , at that level I needed to go straight into Metformin.
We do have a number of people on here who have been able to put their T2 into remission, I hope you are able to join them. 

Do discuss with your Gp about possibly delaying medication for a few months and see what he says. If you do start Metformin you can always stop or reduce it as your levels come down .


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## Crispycrystal (Dec 9, 2019)

Thank you for your replies, and the advice.
Yes I am monitoring glucose levels, BP and weight every morning, before dinner and at bedtime. That’s just for the first week or until I get a better handle on daily trends, then I will just do the morning ones. I am also recording food, drink ( only water for now) and steps. This way I have a reasonable record to show the doctor today.


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## Ljc (Dec 9, 2019)

Hi again.  Many of us use our meters to find out how the various carbohydrates affect us . I know you are going to try to get into remission but though5 you might find these links on here helpful. 
Apologies if you have already read them 
maggie-daveys-letter-to-newly-diagnosed-type-2s
test-test-test by Alan S 

You’ll find the above and lots more on this thread which is at the top of the newbies forum 
useful-links-for-people-new-to-diabetes


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## Crispycrystal (Dec 9, 2019)

Ljc said:


> Hi again.  Many of us use our meters to find out how the various carbohydrates affect us . I know you are going to try to get into remission but though5 you might find these links on here helpful.
> Apologies if you have already read them
> maggie-daveys-letter-to-newly-diagnosed-type-2s
> test-test-test by Alan S
> ...


Thanks again for your advice. This seems like a very welcoming forum!
Having looked at your signature, I wonder why you changed meds a couple of times. Do you have a link to another page where you might have shared this before?


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## Ljc (Dec 9, 2019)

Crispycrystal said:


> Thanks again for your advice. This seems like a very welcoming forum!
> Having looked at your signature, I wonder why you changed meds a couple of times. Do you have a link to another page where you might have shared this before?


Yes it’s a great forum with so many people sharing what has helped them .

For some of us T2 is progressive.  I was diagnosed in 94 by accident, I had no symptoms ,went to doc for one problem came out with the problem   I originally went in for plus diabetes, I sure don’t like doing things by halves lol. So my  Diabetes was well advanced, they believed I had been diabetic for at least ten years.
I had to come off Metformin a few years ago due to my kidney function plus it wasn’t Woking as well as they used to, the Gliclazide I was put on didn’t work.
I am now very happily on insulin.

When dx I went low carb + the Metformin, this worked very  well for many years  , I also ignored the low fat advise, still do.


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## Drummer (Dec 9, 2019)

You might find that stopping the beer is a good excuse for not going onto medication.
I took tablets for a few weeks, but they made me very ill, and as I was eating a low carb diet I did not need them anyway. The problem is the sugars and starches in the modern diet - cutting down or substituting lower carb foods can work wonders.


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## Crispycrystal (Dec 9, 2019)

Just left the doctor with a script for Metformin. My Hb1Ac  result from last week was 81, up from the 68 I had in October. I also discovered that it had been 48 in 2015, but that was buried in my medical file and I didn’t know! 
Anyway one tablet 500mg per day for a week then 2 a day. Getting a Pancreas Scan sometime and an appointment with the diabetes nurse next week. He liked that I could show him charts of wait, BP and blood sugar daily checks


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## Ditto (Dec 9, 2019)

Hello and welcome to the forum. You sound like you're very organised.


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## trophywench (Dec 9, 2019)

Have a read of this article to get the most out of your efforts with food - you should find it very helpful

https://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/2006/10/test-review-adjust.html


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## Crispycrystal (Dec 9, 2019)

trophywench said:


> Have a read of this article to get the most out of your efforts with food - you should find it very helpful
> 
> https://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/2006/10/test-review-adjust.html


Thankyou


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## Crispycrystal (Dec 9, 2019)

Well I was warned that the side effect of Metformin was diarrhoea, but I didn’t expect it to hit 3 hours after I’d taken the first tablet! Can I take Imodium safely?


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## trophywench (Dec 9, 2019)

Well as safely as taking Imodium ever is ….. danger with it is always going the opposite way.  Denatable which is worse!

The tummy probs often wear off after a week or so but don't for heaven's sake add an extra one until the effect subsides as it's just as likely you'd have the same prob again and have to work your way through it again and it's exactly the wrong time of year to be wanting to do that!

Sometimes this side effect doesn't wear off in which case get back to the docs asap - cos there's a slow release version which is less unkind to the digestive system but of course it's more expensive so they always try the cheaper one first on the basis that so many people just don't have any problems with it - I mean though we'd all like a Rolls Royce, a Lada would still get us where we want to go!  LOL

(Personally I've never actually wanted a RR, just would have liked to be in a position where I was able to seriously consider the choice!)


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## Drummer (Dec 9, 2019)

If it hit that soon I'd advise going really low carb - checking after meals - and arguing for no medication at all - I lost over a month of living trying to persevere with the tablets, did so much laundry and cleaning up, and spent the rest of my time in the bathroom. The most galling thing was that I never needed the tablets in the first place. After 80 days on low carb I was no longer in the diabetic range, at 6 months I was just at the top of normal, and have stayed there.


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## Crispycrystal (Dec 10, 2019)

Duplicate post deleted


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## rebrascora (Dec 10, 2019)

It can help to take the Metformin with a significant amount of food (evening time is probably best in that respect)  and take it mid meal, so that the tablet travels through your digestive tract surrounded by food. The side effects sometimes ease after a few days/a week or so, but if not then go back to the GP and ask for the slow release version and/or go very low carb. Good luck with getting your BG levels down.


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## Crispycrystal (Dec 10, 2019)

Drummer said:


> If it hit that soon I'd advise going really low carb - checking after meals - and arguing for no medication at all - I lost over a month of living trying to persevere with the tablets, did so much laungry and cleaning up, and spent the rest of my time in the bathroom. The most galling thing was that I never needed the tablets in the first place. After 80 days on low carb I was no longer in the diabetic range, at 6 months I was just at the top of normal, and have stayed there.


That is a great result for you. Did you read the 8 week diet book by Nuchael Mosley - he supports low carb and exercise


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## Crispycrystal (Dec 10, 2019)

Anitram said:


> I didn't have diarrhea when I was put on Metformin - quite the reverse - but I did start to suffer severe stomach cramps. Stopped taking it after six weeks, with DN approval, and like Drummer found out that I hadn't needed it anyway. Last Hba1c in August was 41 after the best part of 5 months managing by diet alone.
> 
> However, I was diagnosed at 114 so hardly surprising that I left with a prescription...!
> 
> ...


Thankyou yes I am waiting for a letter for a CT Scan. Congratulations on sticking successfully to your diet


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## Crispycrystal (Dec 10, 2019)

rebrascora said:


> It can help to take the Metformin with a significant amount of food (evening time is probably best in that respect)  and take it mid meal, so that the tablet travels through your digestive tract surrounded by food. The side effects sometimes ease after a few days/a week or so, but if not then go back to the GP and ask for the slow release version and/or go very low carb. Good luck with getting your BG levels down.


Thankyou.


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## Drummer (Dec 11, 2019)

Crispycrystal said:


> That is a great result for you. Did you read the 8 week diet book by Nuchael Mosley - he supports low carb and exercise


No - I read Dr Atkins New Diet Revolution many years ago, and before that was slightly involved in the formulation and presentation of Dr Howard's sachets which became the Cambridge diet - I always knew what sort of diet I needed - it was the doctors and dieticians who pushed the carbs are healthy mantra which caused me so much trouble over the years.


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## Crispycrystal (Dec 19, 2019)

It’s been nearly three weeks now. I’m still in a bit of shock, but have drastically changed what I eat and drink. I have had no sugar in tea and coffee ( was 2 tsp), no pasta, very few potatoes, less rice, no cakes or biscuits, no ice cream, no desserts, very little bread. I have stopped snacking on crisps and peanuts and stopped eating chocolate and sweets ( and I ate a lot). I have had no beer and just one small glass of red wine. My fasting blood sugar is down from 12.1 to around 5 or 6. I test daily first thing in the morning. I started the Metformin (1 tablet) two weeks ago and moved to 2 tablets last Monday. I have lost 4 Kg. I need to lose another 5Kg to get my BMI down to 25.
Several of my friends have had Type 2 for some time, and take 3 Metformin daily. None of them seem to stick to diets though. They drink as much beer as I used to and also eat large quantities including desserts and cakes like I did. Have I been overdoing the diet?  Is it OK to keep eating like that? Does the Metformin “neutralise” it?


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## rebrascora (Dec 19, 2019)

Well done on your excellent progress. Those are really great readings.

The problem with continuing to eat a high carb diet and just hoping that the medication will work is that eventually the body will become more and more resistant to the insulin you produce and the medication (Metformin) may become less effective and additional medication needed or perhaps ultimately insulin required to be injected as well as the other medication. Those people are not really tackling the problem but taking the "bury your head in the sand" approach, in my opinion or they have not been given appropriate dietary advice in the first place. 
Easing off the carbs and losing weight will give your body a chance to recover a bit and eventually you may be able to control it just by diet.... you may even be at that stage now.... and once you reach a normal BMI you can introduce more fat into your diet which makes it more enjoyable and therefore sustainable long term. You may even find that, after a while, you can increase your carb intake a little and your BG will cope with it but it really is up to you whether you want to eat those unhealthy foods on a regular basis and rely on medication for life or take control yourself


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## Bruce Stephens (Dec 19, 2019)

Crispycrystal said:


> Several of my friends have had Type 2 for some time, and take 3 Metformin daily. None of them seem to stick to diets though. They drink as much beer as I used to and also eat large quantities including desserts and cakes like I did. Have I been overdoing the diet? Is it OK to keep eating like that? Does the Metformin “neutralise” it?



People are different. You know what your blood sugar readings are (and HbA1c), but presumably you don't know what theirs are. It's quite possible they're not very well controlled (though it's also possible they are, because they're different people, taking different medications, doing different kinds of exercise).

For you, it may be that you could relax your diet a bit and still be OK. That's the kind of thing you could experiment with a bit (testing as you try things) and something you should discuss with your healthcare team. There's not much point in trying to keep to a diet that you really can't sustain.


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## Drummer (Dec 20, 2019)

I know that I can eat more carbs these days and not see such high spikes - that is because I stash it away as fat now, so I stick to the low carbs and eat tow meals a day, no snacks.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Dec 20, 2019)

Huge congratulations on your progress so far @Crispycrystal 

You’ve made a brilliant start. Long may it continue!

I think there is a bit of a mental block in some people who are given tablets that they will ‘take care of it’ but my opinion is that any medication can only really work well in combination with other positive changes to diet and lifestyle. 

sounds like you have made changes which are really suiting your body and your diabetes. Well done!


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## Crispycrystal (Dec 21, 2019)

rebrascora said:


> Well done on your excellent progress. Those are really great readings.
> 
> The problem with continuing to eat a high carb diet and just hoping that the medication will work is that eventually the body will become more and more resistant to the insulin you produce and the medication (Metformin) may become less effective and additional medication needed or perhaps ultimately insulin required to be injected as well as the other medication. Those people are not really tackling the problem but taking the "bury your head in the sand" approach, in my opinion or they have not been given appropriate dietary advice in the first place.
> Easing off the carbs and losing weight will give your body a chance to recover a bit and eventually you may be able to control it just by diet.... you may even be at that stage now.... and once you reach a normal BMI you can introduce more fat into your diet which makes it more enjoyable and therefore sustainable long term. You may even find that, after a while, you can increase your carb intake a little and your BG will cope with it but it really is up to you whether you want to eat those unhealthy foods on a regular basis and rely on medication for life or take control yourself


Thank you, that is very motivating!


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## Crispycrystal (Dec 21, 2019)

Bruce Stephens said:


> People are different. You know what your blood sugar readings are (and HbA1c), but presumably you don't know what theirs are. It's quite possible they're not very well controlled (though it's also possible they are, because they're different people, taking different medications, doing different kinds of exercise).
> 
> For you, it may be that you could relax your diet a bit and still be OK. That's the kind of thing you could experiment with a bit (testing as you try things) and something you should discuss with your healthcare team. There's not much point in trying to keep to a diet that you really can't sustain.


Thankyou
You say in your signature that you feel 30 years younger. That’s great. I think it also sums up the little things I have been noticing since changing diet ( still less than 3 weeks) - sleeping better, less tired, even improved libido! I’m not sure it’s 30 years worth yet - not sure my wife could cope with that!


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## Crispycrystal (Dec 21, 2019)

Drummer said:


> I know that I can eat more carbs these days and not see such high spikes - that is because I stash it away as fat now, so I stick to the low carbs and eat tow meals a day, no snacks.


Thankyou


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## Crispycrystal (Dec 21, 2019)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Huge congratulations on your progress so far @Crispycrystal
> 
> You’ve made a brilliant start. Long may it continue!
> 
> ...


Thankyou


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