# No-deal Brexit: Disruption at Dover 'could last six months'



## Northerner (Dec 8, 2018)

Dover and other Channel ports face disruption for up to six months if the UK leaves the EU without a deal, ministers have said.

The "worst case scenario" warning comes after analysis of likely traffic flows, if customs checks are delayed.

Lorries carrying medicine could get priority at ports and planes used to fly in drugs, ministers said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46480374

A little while ago I wasn't that concerned about potential shortages of insulin, but the more this nonsense goes on, the more worried I am becoming  

It's like a mash-up of Danté's 9 levels of hell and a Brian Rix farce taken to extremes


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## Robin (Dec 8, 2018)

Depends where the insulin's made, I suppose. If it’s from the Novonordisk plant in Denmark, I’d have thought Felixstowe or Harwich, or even further up the East coast was a more likely place to bring it in. All those ports handle stuff from outside the EU and are used to dealing with customs and excise protocols.


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## mikeyB (Dec 8, 2018)

Indeed, Robin. But the Londoncentric media seem to think that there’s only one port in the country. Most trade from China comes in through Felixstowe.  In fact, Felixstowe is the UKs biggest container port.  Most shippers prefer it because you don’t have to bypass London to get to the rest of the UK.


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## Bruce Stephens (Dec 8, 2018)

Yes, Dover's important, and because of Project Stack we know even minor delays can cause chaos locally. But in terms of relative volume it's not _that_ important. I seem to remember it's about 17% of total traffic. I'd assume there'd be a chance of similar delays at other ports, rather more likely to be used in importing things like insulin. Hence the possibility of chartering aircraft, and increasing storage in the UK.


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## Northerner (Dec 9, 2018)

A chap on the telly was talking about Dover the other day and the idea that things could be diverted to other ports. He made the point that Southampton, for example, does deal with a lot of freight, but not the sort of roll on/roll off lorries that Dover is geared up for, it's largely huge container ships. Hence, there is simply not the same infrastructure available at all ports so you can't simply divert a large amount of traffic


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## Robin (Dec 9, 2018)

Northerner said:


> A chap on the telly was talking about Dover the other day and the idea that things could be diverted to other ports. He made the point that Southampton, for example, does deal with a lot of freight, but not the sort of roll on/roll off lorries that Dover is geared up for, it's largely huge container ships. Hence, there is simply not the same infrastructure available at all ports so you can't simply divert a large amount of traffic


That’s why I mentioned Harwich, which is currently underused. I hadn’t realised  the direct RoRo ferry to Denmark had stopped, though, and it now only serves Hook of Holland. Seems like we've been putting our eggs in one basket.


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## Northerner (Dec 9, 2018)

Robin said:


> That’s why I mentioned Harwich, which is currently underused. I hadn’t realised  the direct RoRo ferry to Denmark had stopped, though, and it now only serves Hook of Holland. Seems like we've been putting our eggs in one basket.


For me it's (yet) another thing that wasn't even considered prior to the vote. Unfortunately, I think we have been through a very poor batch of politicians, on all sides, over the past decade  Everything difficult has been pushed back and back until it all becomes critical


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## grovesy (Dec 9, 2018)

Northerner said:


> For me it's (yet) another thing that wasn't even considered prior to the vote. Unfortunately, I think we have been through a very poor batch of politicians, on all sides, over the past decade  Everything difficult has been pushed back and back until it all becomes critical


True.


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## Bruce Stephens (Dec 9, 2018)

Northerner said:


> For me it's (yet) another thing that wasn't even considered prior to the vote. Unfortunately, I think we have been through a very poor batch of politicians, on all sides, over the past decade  Everything difficult has been pushed back and back until it all becomes critical



I think David Runciman may be right, that the whole thing is an example of how we're living through the end of democracy, at least this kind of representative democracy. (The argument is that representative democracy is a way to save democracy from the population (who are poor, ignorant, and young), and that increasingly in the West the population is becoming more like the representatives. At least a non-trivial proportion are. So now that 30 or 40% (or more, depending on the dimension) of the population are like the representatives, it's more obvious that they don't really represent all of us. And for those they do represent, what's wrong with direct democracy: why do I need a representative at all?)

He offers some suggestions on things that might be tried (nothing much for Brexit, but to try to save democracy). There are direct democratic mechanisms other than referendums which might work better. He also suggests extending voting age to 6 (16 being inadequate, he feels).

(Not that I'm saying we don't have particularly weak representatives just now. But I think it's deeper than that. I'm not sure anyone could do much better with Brexit once the referendum result has been accepted.)


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## Northerner (Dec 9, 2018)

Bruce Stephens said:


> I'm not sure anyone could do much better with Brexit once the referendum result has been accepted.)


The wise thing would have been never to call it in the first place in order to try and heal (or rather, silence) an ongoing rift in your own party and taking fright at the rise of a single-issue party like UKIP...  And then immediately walking out of office


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## mikeyB (Dec 11, 2018)

If any of you wonder why the Scots get so pissed off with London Newspapers and the BBC, you might wonder why the European Court has just ruled that Britain could unilaterally revoke Article 50, giving everybody an out. It was 6 Members of the Scottish Parliament who put the question to the court. This wasn’t mentioned by the BBC or the papers, thus giving the impression it was a random bleat by the EU to scupper Brexit.

Why it takes Scotland to ask the bleeding obvious question, I’ve no idea. But it rather takes the wind out of the Maybot’s assertion that there is no alternative. 

It’s not the will of the people to leave the EU, only 37% of them. When Scottish devolution was first debated and voted on back in the day,  the stipulation was that it had to be over 50% of the voting population who wanted it, and not just more than 50% of the vote, a deliberate move to scupper it. This stipulation should be retro applied to the Brexit vote. Not enough people wanted it.


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## Madeline (Dec 11, 2018)

You Scots are far more sensible


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## Amigo (Dec 11, 2018)

Looking on at this, it feels like outsiders have voted for and orchestrated the messiest divorce in history where neither partner wanted to separate!

We must restore the status quo with politicians who are prepared to tackle the core issues from within an unified system. May has been handed the most tainted poison chalice and (a little) part of me feels for her. Cameron walked away and left her to pick up a humongous mess!


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## Northerner (Dec 13, 2018)

Amigo said:


> May has been handed the most tainted poison chalice and (a little) part of me feels for her. Cameron walked away and left her to pick up a humongous mess!



I've yet to see her swipe her Libre, do you think she has a miaomiao?   

Brexiteers who complain about it being a 'remain' parliament that is trying to steal Brexit from 'the people' seem to overlook the fact that all those 'remainers' were elected by 'the people' a year AFTER the referendum...


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## mikeyB (Dec 14, 2018)

She hasn’t got Miaomiao, you’d see it stuck over the sensor. She probably asks a housemaid to scan it for her

What you are speaking of is democracy. This country is being driven to disaster by around a small group of loony rich MPs, when it should, on a decision like this, be a national government. The referendum was only advisory, after all. It’s for the government to decide what’s best for the people.

What bothers me is that nearly everybody accepts we’ll be worse off if we leave the EU. In what sense is this good for the people?


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## Northerner (Dec 14, 2018)

mikeyB said:


> She hasn’t got Miaomiao, you’d see it stuck over the sensor. She probably asks a housemaid to scan it for her
> 
> What you are speaking of is democracy. This country is being driven to disaster by around a small group of loony rich MPs, when it should, on a decision like this, be a national government. The referendum was only advisory, after all. It’s for the government to decide what’s best for the people.
> 
> What bothers me is that nearly everybody accepts we’ll be worse off if we leave the EU. In what sense is this good for the people?


I have to admit that during the referendum campaign I wasn't aware it would be just the government who would be negotiating, given the fact that it's something that will affect everyone for generations to come, I sort of assumed that it would be a cross-party negotiation. Yes even now at this extremely late stage I am hearing minister after minister saying that they don't wish to engage with other parties, they want to get it through on their own party votes plus DUP. Clearly, not going to happen 

I have to admit, as a fellow Type 1 and sexagenarian, I have some admiration for the fact that TM is keeping going  She must be absolutely exhausted and whoever you are it can't be easy to manage your levels with such a busy and unpredictable schedule. I have no admiration for her pathological procrastination though, and inability to build alliances and find workable compromises and solutions  I used to have a boss who never stopped and gave the illusion of working very hard all the time, but in reality he achieved very little because he had little or no creativity and was extremely inefficient in his job - TM is similar, from all appearances


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## Drummer (Dec 14, 2018)

The EU made it clear - the deal we were offered is the deal - and if we don't like it - tough. It has been repeated several times now - there is no renegotiation on offer.


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## nonethewiser (Dec 15, 2018)

Notice these stories always contain the word Could in the headlines.

These stories are beyond the pale now, all it is doing is causing unnecessary worry to those who have a medical condition and rely on drugs to treat the condition, scaremongering without foundation.


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## Lucy Honeychurch (Dec 15, 2018)

Forewarned is forearmed


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## Madeline (Dec 15, 2018)

Lucy Honeychurch said:


> Forewarned is forearmed


Or, as I saw it spelt in the DM comments today, ‘fourwarned’


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## Sharron1 (Dec 15, 2018)

With all this fun, a second referendum should be wild... Hope my BGls can handle it.


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## Madeline (Dec 15, 2018)

Sharron1 said:


> With all this fun, a second referendum should be wild... Hope my BGls can handle it.


I’m not sure I could handle the excitement


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## Northerner (Dec 15, 2018)

Sharron1 said:


> With all this fun, a second referendum should be wild... Hope my BGls can handle it.


Well, better not use up all your test strips in case stocks run low!


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