# Woken by hypo



## Northerner (Aug 16, 2010)

Well, it seems hypos do wake me up! Went to bed a bit earlier and woke about 2 hours later feeling a little 'odd'. Tested at 2.1  No real symptoms, except it didn't feel like 'sleepiness' when I woke. That's my fourth hypo in 24 hours - have also had a 3.7, a 2.2 and a 2.9. Think I might have to reduce my lantus.

Now absolutely ravenous and trying to resist the urge to overtreat! I've already had two biscuits, three jelly babies and some lucozade!  Just tested (half an hour later) and I'm 5.6, so back to bed I think!


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## katie (Aug 16, 2010)

Is that the first time you've woken hypo?  

I hope you feel ok in the morning and the hypos become less frequent very soon x


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## Northerner (Aug 16, 2010)

katie said:


> Is that the first time you've woken hypo?
> 
> I hope you feel ok in the morning and the hypos become less frequent very soon x



Thanks Katie  No, but I don't have many night hypos these days, this was probably my second in the last 6 months or so. I do usually wake up, but don't feel very hypo. It seems logical to test though, and then I find I am very low and start to feel it!


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## KayC (Aug 16, 2010)

Good job you woke up.....2.1 is scary.  Hope you will have a good night sleep and your BS is normal in the morning.
Kay


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## Northerner (Aug 16, 2010)

Thank you Kay  Typical - I went to bed early because I wanted a good night's sleep and now it's been spoiled! Grrr!!!


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## cazscot (Aug 16, 2010)

Hope you are feeling better this morning .


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## Caroline (Aug 16, 2010)

I hope there is no hypo hangover for you. 

I know a hypo is serious, but my little feller (and me) want to know how you can over treat? SOrry I'm being frivolous, it is Monday morning


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## Steff (Aug 16, 2010)

Hi Northerner hope your feeling ok x


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## rachelha (Aug 16, 2010)

Ouch, that's a lot of hypos in 24 hours, take iteasy today and look after yourself


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## novorapidboi26 (Aug 16, 2010)

Caroline said:


> I hope there is no hypo hangover for you.
> 
> I know a hypo is serious, but my little feller (and me) want to know how you can over treat? SOrry I'm being frivolous, it is Monday morning



Its all about the effect of carbohydrate on the Blood Glucose.......

10 grams of carbohyrate brings your BG up abour 2-3mmol/l, everyone is different but this is the standard.......

The rule I follow is 20g of quickly absorbed sugar (6 jelly babies) and thats it, test again if still feeling dodgy then repeat process if still low, this avoids overeating and going high.........

To be honest there has been times I have just overeaten anyway as its so satisfying when your hypo..........


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## everydayupsanddowns (Aug 16, 2010)

Caroline

I find it very easy to overtreat a hypo - taking too much in the way of carbs to raise blood sugar and ending up yoyo-ing into hyperglycaemia. 

Doing a little DIY yesterday and I went from 2.4 to 9.3 over about 40 minutes due to a slightly over-generous swig of Lucozade! I also find that 15-20g short-acting carbs are usually plenty. Some people need something a little longer-acting to follow up, I've even heard people say, "Like a sandwich" - which would send me sky high with or without any liver-based mucking about...


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## Northerner (Aug 16, 2010)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Caroline
> 
> I find it very easy to overtreat a hypo - taking too much in the way of carbs to raise blood sugar and ending up yoyo-ing into hyperglycaemia.
> 
> Doing a little DIY yesterday and I went from 2.4 to 9.3 over about 40 minutes due to a slightly over-generous swig of Lucozade! I also find that 15-20g short-acting carbs are usually plenty. Some people need something a little longer-acting to follow up, I've even heard people say, "Like a sandwich" - which would send me sky high with or without any liver-based mucking about...



Well, I survived the night! Thanks for all your good wishes everyone  I woke to 5.3 this morning. My BG went up to 9.5 eventually last night before I lay down again. I did eat more than I normally would for a hypo - my treatment is usually three jelly babies during the day and that's it (15g carbs), but as I was going back to sleep and I live alone I wanted to make sure. Plus, I was ravenous! So, I probably had about 40g carbs overall.  Agree with you about 'a sandwich' - that's about 8/9 units for me and way too much for a hypo!


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## lucy123 (Aug 16, 2010)

Hi Northerner. Take it easy today.


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## Northerner (Aug 16, 2010)

lucy123 said:


> Hi Northerner. Take it easy today.



Thanks Lucy. I slept a little later than usual, and thankfully I don't have a 'hypo hangover' this morning  I'm pretty sure I know the reason for it - I have been out running for the past 3 out of 4 days and this has made me more insulin sensitive, so my lantus (basal) probably needs cutting down a unit.


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## Robster65 (Aug 16, 2010)

Glad you managed it well. I have been off the scale before when meter reads 'LO', which is below 1.1mmol/l. But I don't have to reach for my own JB's or coke.

Rob


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## PhoebeC (Aug 16, 2010)

I wish i was waking up with them. I sleep right through these days and my poor husband has to force feed me sugar. Had another one this morning, my own fault. 

Hope your feeling ok?

4 is way too many in 24 hours, some days are just like that. I think you need some cake 
xx


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## Northerner (Aug 16, 2010)

Robster65 said:


> Glad you managed it well. I have been off the scale before when meter reads 'LO', which is below 1.1mmol/l. But I don't have to reach for my own JB's or coke.
> 
> Rob



I've never (knowingly!) had one below 1.7 - and I don't want one either! 



PhoebeC said:


> I wish i was waking up with them. I sleep right through these days and my poor husband has to force feed me sugar. Had another one this morning, my own fault.
> 
> Hope your feeling ok?
> 
> ...



No more paramedics at the end ofthe bed, I hope! I do feel OK actually, which surprises me - expected a humdinger of a hypo hangover! It's all to do with the cumulative effect of stepping up my training for this year's Great South Run. I've been lowering my meal boluses (not enough, it seems!) and now it looks like the lantus needs lowering as well.


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## PhoebeC (Aug 16, 2010)

Northerner said:


> I've never (knowingly!) had one below 1.7 - and I don't want one either!
> 
> 
> 
> No more paramedics at the end ofthe bed, I hope! I do feel OK actually, which surprises me - expected a humdinger of a hypo hangover! It's all to do with the cumulative effect of stepping up my training for this year's Great South Run. I've been lowering my meal boluses (not enough, it seems!) and now it looks like the lantus needs lowering as well.



Not any paramedics, just an annoyed husband haha. He was running around the house naked looking for glucose tablets, i wouldnt tell them where they where 

I have been lowering my meals too but still had a hypo before and i had a jam dougnut after dinner, i was thinking id be stupid high, but 1.6. Crazy.

How many miles is the run?

x


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## Northerner (Aug 16, 2010)

PhoebeC said:


> Not any paramedics, just an annoyed husband haha. He was running around the house naked looking for glucose tablets, i wouldnt tell them where they where
> 
> I have been lowering my meals too but still had a hypo before and i had a jam dougnut after dinner, i was thinking id be stupid high, but 1.6. Crazy.
> 
> ...



Great South Run is 10 miles  Three miles shorter than the Great North Run (probably too many Southern softies would be keeling over )

Just had another hypo  - 2.8. That follows the hypo I had earlier at 2.0, despite lowering my meal boluses again  I'll be lowering my lantus tonight!


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## Northerner (Aug 17, 2010)

Me again!  3 am and woken again to 2.7 mmol/l. Getting a bit worrying this. Lowered my lantus, and this is over 8 hours since my last novorapid. I even had a slice of toast and jam before bed! Decided to get up for a bit to make sure my levels are up again before returning to bed.


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## katie (Aug 17, 2010)

Hi northe.  I hope you manage to sort your levels out soon, and hope you feel better in the morning! x


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## Northerner (Aug 17, 2010)

katie said:


> Hi northe.  I hope you manage to sort your levels out soon, and hope you feel better in the morning! x



Thanks katie  What are you doing up? Can't sleep?


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## katie (Aug 17, 2010)

Can't sleep, won't sleep... I'm not sure!  :/

Are you a better level now?


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## Northerner (Aug 17, 2010)

katie said:


> Can't sleep, won't sleep... I'm not sure!  :/
> 
> Are you a better level now?



Just tested and am 7.4 so think I will head off back to bed now, I'm cream-crackered! Hope you can get some sleep, m'dear


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## katie (Aug 17, 2010)

that's good. goodnight!

I will go to bed very soon


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## Northerner (Aug 17, 2010)

Took a while to get back to sleep  Woke this morning to 5.7.


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## Patricia (Aug 17, 2010)

Crumbs you've had a couple of days of it Northerner!

Reading this it occurs to me: we've had the experience of reducing insulin by 60% over entire days when lots of exercise seems to be a factor - and this is result somehow of what feels like a 'tipping point'. E can do quite a bit of extra w fairly straightforward adjustments, then bam - a bit more and his needs are halved. May be just him...

Perhaps reduce your lantus by quite a bit more than you think you need to - so you run high for a while? Then work back down? Hypos begetting hypos and all that. Please take good care...

Xxoo


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## Laura22 (Aug 17, 2010)

Yikes! 

I used to get ALOT of night time hypos but they've started to stop? I woke on 4.8mmol. 

Have you been snacking before bed? (Sorry if this has been asked/replied to. Not read all the replies)


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## Northerner (Aug 17, 2010)

Patricia said:


> Crumbs you've had a couple of days of it Northerner!
> 
> Reading this it occurs to me: we've had the experience of reducing insulin by 60% over entire days when lots of exercise seems to be a factor - and this is result somehow of what feels like a 'tipping point'. E can do quite a bit of extra w fairly straightforward adjustments, then bam - a bit more and his needs are halved. May be just him...
> 
> ...



You could be right Patricia. I'm only on 7 lantus currently, but am going to reduce to 6 tonight. I know you are supposed to wait 3 days before making further changes with lantus, but it clearly didn't work last night, and this is what I've had to do in the past. I have a theory that I still have some residual beta cell function, which is why my basal requirements are less than 20% of my total daily dose (even less tonight!). A rise in the frequency of exercise may be improving this, or improving my insulin sensitivity to a high degree.



Laura22 said:


> Yikes!
> 
> I used to get ALOT of night time hypos but they've started to stop? I woke on 4.8mmol.
> 
> Have you been snacking before bed? (Sorry if this has been asked/replied to. Not read all the replies)



Had a slice of toast generously spread with strawberry jam last night. If I had that for breakfast I would need 7 units of novorapid for it, so you would expect it to keep my levels up overnight! Might try my old favourite of peanut butter sandwich tonight though as that may digest more slowly and cover any early peak in the lantus I might be getting.

These are the first couple of night hypos I've had for ages. I think I had one about a month ago, and before that it was several months.


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## Patricia (Aug 17, 2010)

When we've reduced in the past - or raised actually - in times of extremis such as you are having, we have moved more than 10% at once, and moved daily! I know it's not advised, but you are right, you know yourself. 

Re residual beta cell function: as you know there is anecdotal and beginning to be scientific evidence that early good control can do this, perhaps even to the point of the body developing a 'memory' of control, outlasting even the residual function.... So says our consultant! We too anyway have a lower than expected basal and correction levels - both positive and negative!


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## Robster65 (Aug 17, 2010)

Bit of a bad run of lows Northerner. 

Could it be your continued build up on the running ?

The textbooks suggest that exercise increases sensitivity and with building up fitness and pushing your muscles, could that sensitivity be compounded to this degree do you think ?

I'm also finding it difficult to get through the night without a snack and then I'm often over 10 in the morning. But a definite dip between 2 and 3am.

Hope you sort it. Is you lantus causing lows during the day btw ?

Rob


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## Copepod (Aug 17, 2010)

PhoebeC said:


> Not any paramedics, just an annoyed husband haha. He was running around the house naked looking for glucose tablets, i wouldnt tell them where they where
> 
> I have been lowering my meals too but still had a hypo before and i had a jam dougnut after dinner, i was thinking id be stupid high, but 1.6. Crazy.
> 
> ...



Unless your main aim is to see your husband running naked round the house, why not just put a packet of sweets / glucose tablets by the bed?!? Despite having an able and willing partner (who never wears anything in bed / sleeping bag unless someone other than me is around), I just keep a bumbag, containing sweets, insulin pens, glasses & contact lenses, hanging on the bedpost.


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## Northerner (Aug 17, 2010)

Robster65 said:


> Bit of a bad run of lows Northerner.
> 
> Could it be your continued build up on the running ?
> 
> ...



Just had another one, a 2.4! Very little warning. I was surprised as I'd really cut back on my lunch bolus and was expecting to be relatively high before tea. So, I had an even more reduced bolus with my evening meal - let's see what happens with that! The problem is that, when things are changing like this it's practically impossible to carb-count because you can't tell what your ratios are. My total daily dose today will be 31 units, about a month ago it was 46 units. Nearly cured! 

It's definitely to do with the running, but so difficult to predict. Before my run this morning I was 9.2. When I got back I was 10.1, by lunch I was 6.6, then 2.4 about 4 hours later. Lowering the lantus again tonight, plus a slice of bread and peanut butter!


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## Robster65 (Aug 17, 2010)

It's a nightmare to know how to pitch it isn't it. As for trying to lose weight as well, you have to limit what you eat, but then eat loads to beat the hypos. 

I did manage to get some weight off in the end but only once my body had adjusted to the exercise, which seemed a bit self defeating but worked in the end.

We found Alpen Light cereal bars are one of the best calories/carb ratios without being too unhealthy and might even be medium-ish GI.

Rob


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## Northerner (Aug 17, 2010)

Robster65 said:


> It's a nightmare to know how to pitch it isn't it. As for trying to lose weight as well, you have to limit what you eat, but then eat loads to beat the hypos.
> 
> I did manage to get some weight off in the end but only once my body had adjusted to the exercise, which seemed a bit self defeating but worked in the end.
> 
> ...



Cheers Rob. Weight has never been a problem to me in the past, but since diagnosis I have put on a lot more than I am used to - I have always been relatively skinny and light. My ideal weight is around 10.5 st, but I'm currently 12 st. My weight has stabilised at this level and doesn't seem to want to come off - but it probably isn't being helped when I have to treat 8 hypos in just over two days! Flippin' diabetes! I think I've got some Alpen bars knocking around  - had them over a year, maybe now is the time to start eating them!

I'm not consciously trying to lose weight, just trying to get fit and hoping the weight will go with that. Must be helping that I burned around 500 cals on this morning's run!


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## Robster65 (Aug 17, 2010)

Likewise the weight. When I was in my mid 20s, my control was so poor due to shift of priorities (baby, etc) that I was skin and bone. I was about 10.5st myself which is low for 5'10". In recent years I was stuck at 72kg, whatever that translates to in old money. Since I started looking after myself recently, I went up to 11st 13lb because the highs weren't diverting fat and muscle through my kidneys.
I'm now back to a 32" waist but it's precarious unless we walk a couple of miles a day. I may have to buy some 34" as a backup.

I'm actually feeling a bit low now after testing at 4.2 an hour ago and eating a slice of toast (16g carb). Funny old game innit. 

Test ahoy !

Rob


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## Robster65 (Aug 17, 2010)

2.8 oops !

Hob nob eaten.

Rob


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## Northerner (Aug 17, 2010)

Robster65 said:


> 2.8 oops !
> 
> Hob nob eaten.
> 
> Rob



What happened to all those lovely 3s we used to get?


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## Robster65 (Aug 17, 2010)

Cut backs !

We had it good for too long and now comes an era of austerity. We were just debating how big a hammer we should use to tackle he current low, bearing in mind it's an hour and a half until bedtime, I want to avoid a low in the night but don't want to be too high in the morning.

We do have to face a series of dichotomies on a daily basis and they say that once you get into the swing of it, diabetes shouldn't affect your life. Unless you want each day to be slightly different, then you need a doctorate in endocrinology and quantum theory ! 

Rob


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## Northerner (Aug 17, 2010)

Sounds like a cue for my poem 'Quantum Diabetes and Schroedinger's Hypo'

http://diabetespoetry.blogspot.com/2010/07/quantum-diabetes-and-schroedingers-hypo.html



I was 10.7 three hours after eating my tea - high for me, so maybe I overestimated my underestimate on the novorapid! Still, should mean I'm high enough to go to bed without jam on toast or peanut butter! Mind you, that's no guarantee I won't hypo again like last night! Still debating whether to drop the lantus down another unit to see what effect it has on my waking level.


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## Northerner (Aug 17, 2010)

Right, I'm 5.8 before bed, so that 10.7 must have been a timing issue with the food/injection. Now, do I lower my lantus again? Last night I had 7 units and was 6.0 before bed AND I had a slice of toast and jam. I think I will lower to 6 units and have a slice of bread and peanut butter and see what happens by morning - hopefully without any need for jelly babies at 3 am!


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## everydayupsanddowns (Aug 18, 2010)

Northerner said:


> Now, do I lower my lantus again? Last night I had 7 units and was 6.0 before bed AND I had a slice of toast and jam. I think I will lower to 6 units and have a slice of bread and peanut butter and see what happens by morning - hopefully without any need for jelly babies at 3 am!



Hope you survived the night OK Northener... basal tweaking is notoriously tricky on Lantus, especially if you are victim of the 3-day 'Lantus Lag' before new doses settle down.

Do you inject at 11ish? If I remember rightly there's a sort-of mini peak in Lantus activity around the 3-5 hour mark which probably isn't helping things for you


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## Northerner (Aug 18, 2010)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Hope you survived the night OK Northener... basal tweaking is notoriously tricky on Lantus, especially if you are victim of the 3-day 'Lantus Lag' before new doses settle down.
> 
> Do you inject at 11ish? If I remember rightly there's a sort-of mini peak in Lantus activity around the 3-5 hour mark which probably isn't helping things for you



I decided to go ahead and lower the lantus to 6 and have the peanut butter sandwich (although that went against instinct!). Good idea as it turned out - I woke at 3:30 am and tested: 4.4 mmol/l. So if I hadn't had the PB I would probably have hypoed again. Woke this morning to 5.3 so all's good!


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## everydayupsanddowns (Aug 18, 2010)

Northerner said:


> I decided to go ahead and lower the lantus to 6 and have the peanut butter sandwich (although that went against instinct!). Good idea as it turned out - I woke at 3:30 am and tested: 4.4 mmol/l. So if I hadn't had the PB I would probably have hypoed again. Woke this morning to 5.3 so all's good!



Good news that it worked well  Guess you'll be keeping an eye on it for a few days more to see how it settles... 

I always used to have a little suppertime something, but these days it more feels like needing to eat something to stop me going hypo overnight is an indication that my basal's not quite right. Have you done much in the way of looking at your before/after bgs when not eating/bolusing for various meals in the day? Can be a useful way to check what your basal is up to, without bolus distractions.


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## Northerner (Aug 18, 2010)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> Good news that it worked well  Guess you'll be keeping an eye on it for a few days more to see how it settles...
> 
> I always used to have a little suppertime something, but these days it more feels like needing to eat something to stop me going hypo overnight is an indication that my basal's not quite right. Have you done much in the way of looking at your before/after bgs when not eating/bolusing for various meals in the day? Can be a useful way to check what your basal is up to, without bolus distractions.



My sensitivity changes through the day (or should that be resistance?). If I don't eat breakfast my leves creep up - thank you Mr Liver - but I can skip lunch or even evening meal and stay steady. I've been very happy with my lantus dose for well over a year, it's just stepping up the training that is changing it. When I was injured earlier this year I needed 9 lantus to stay below 7 fasting. I'd say my novorapid has reduced by around 30% too recently, just playing catch up!


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## Carina1962 (Aug 18, 2010)

Am just taking a few mins break before i finish work and wondered, Northerner, how did you get on last night?  hopefully not woken up in the small hours by a hypo again?


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## Northerner (Aug 18, 2010)

carina62 said:


> Am just taking a few mins break before i finish work and wondered, Northerner, how did you get on last night?  hopefully not woken up in the small hours by a hypo again?



I did wake up, as I often do anyway, but tested at 4.4 so had a jelly baby and woke in the morning to 5.3 - hurrah!


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## Northerner (Aug 18, 2010)

Unbelievable! I tested about an hour ago and I was 4.7 (4.5 hours after tea). Clearly too low to go to bed on, given my recent history so I had a slice of jam on toast. Got distracted and now it's an hour later so thought I would just test again before injecting my lantus  - three point flipping nine!!! I've just eaten jam on toast! Where did it go? 

So, I think I'm going to have to have a slice of peanut butter on bread now. I don't really want to reduce my lantus again as it would send me high tomorrow morning, and I certainly don't want to contemplate splitting my lantus when I'm only on 6 units anyway, plus all this change going on.

I may be back on at 3 am!


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## Northerner (Aug 19, 2010)

I had my peanut butter and 6 lantus. Woke at 4 am and tested at 5.8 - woke up this morning to 5.0. So it looks like I cracked it last night, but I'm still very surprised that I needed two slices of bread plus jam and peanut butter to keep my levels up. I'd expected to go much higher!


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## everydayupsanddowns (Aug 19, 2010)

Northerner said:


> Unbelievable! I tested about an hour ago and I was 4.7 (4.5 hours after tea). Clearly too low to go to bed on, given my recent history so I had a slice of jam on toast. Got distracted and now it's an hour later so thought I would just test again before injecting my lantus  - three point flipping nine!!!



I've had those days too. So frustrating! It usually seems to coincide with more visits to the Gym (which given your current level of training seems similar). I've also never been able to establish any way of working out the actual duration of bolus for _me_, only the 4ish hours figure provided by the manufacturer. With all the other variations we all see in the way our own bodies I find it hard to believe it would be 4 hours for _everyone_.

Will you drop Lantus by another unit? Just to see if you can make it through a night without having to have hypo-busting jam sandwiches (unless you are enjoying them of course...)


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## Northerner (Aug 19, 2010)

everydayupsanddowns said:


> I've had those days too. So frustrating! It usually seems to coincide with more visits to the Gym (which given your current level of training seems similar). I've also never been able to establish any way of working out the actual duration of bolus for _me_, only the 4ish hours figure provided by the manufacturer. With all the other variations we all see in the way our own bodies I find it hard to believe it would be 4 hours for _everyone_.
> 
> Will you drop Lantus by another unit? Just to see if you can make it through a night without having to have hypo-busting jam sandwiches (unless you are enjoying them of course...)



I'm pretty sure novorapid lasts 5 hours in me, maybe longer depending on where I inject - another factor that undermines the 4 hour figure! I'm half-tempted to drop the lantus again, but sort of nervous about it, as5 units would be the lowest dose I've ever been on and 75% less than I was originally on! I did test the doctor's knowledge at my appointment this morning, by asking her about residual beta cell function, but she admitted that she couldn't really anser my question and better to ask the consultant. She didn't seem to be aware of the C-peptide test. All that is fair enough though - I like her honesty and it may actually be the first time she's ever been asked the question!


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## everydayupsanddowns (Aug 19, 2010)

Northerner said:


> I'm half-tempted to drop the lantus again, but sort of nervous about it, as 5 units would be the lowest dose I've ever been on



I've given up trying to understand such things... I recently had a 35ish% drop in bolus requirement (during one of my periods of basal system experimentation and/or warm weather, I forget which!). In the end I've decided I can only _go by the meter_ for whatever seems to be happening _now_, this week... this level of activity... this ambient temperature... If my fbg's weren't rising and I was battling overnight lows I'd be tempted to either a) drop another unit or b) shift Lantus to the morning (which is what I've ended up doing) so that Lantus's fading happens overnight. 

The downside of this of course, is that breakfast spikes are trickier to manage...

Still... I very rarely wake up low these days. Which is nice.


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## Northerner (Aug 19, 2010)

Morning lantus is a possibility I suppose, given that it is in the morning that I have the greatest resistance. I'm so used to my regime though, and it does work pretty well overall, so I'm reluctant to change injection times.


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## Robster65 (Aug 19, 2010)

If you work out how it all interacts (preferably with algorithms), can you drop me a PM please ?

Ta.

I suspect someone sneaks in during the night and injects some more humalog/novorapid but occasionally swaps it for glucose.

Rob


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## everydayupsanddowns (Aug 19, 2010)

@Robster Ha Ha! Yup that's it exactly. The mystery is solved at last!



Northerner said:


> Morning lantus is a possibility I suppose, given that it is in the morning that I have the greatest resistance.



Conversely I'd say that indicates morning Lantus may not work so well - given that it takes a good few hours of onset to get going. If you tend towards a little DP anyway you need your Lantus well and truly up and running first thing I reckon.


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## Northerner (Aug 19, 2010)

Robster65 said:


> If you work out how it all interacts (preferably with algorithms), can you drop me a PM please ?...
> Rob



http://www.diabetessupport.co.uk/boards/showthread.php?t=673 



everydayupsanddowns said:


> ...Conversely I'd say that indicates morning Lantus may not work so well - given that it takes a good few hours of onset to get going. If you tend towards a little DP anyway you need your Lantus well and truly up and running first thing I reckon.



Lantus gets going pretty quickly in me. I've never had a problem with my waking levels, but I do have a problem if I don't eat soon after rising.


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## lucy123 (Aug 19, 2010)

Hi Northerner,

I hope things get sorted for you.
Sorry to hear about your night time issues - its awful when you have broken sleep.
I should imagine it is quite scary being on your own too.

Fingers crossed for you and well done on the running.


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## Northerner (Aug 19, 2010)

lucy123 said:


> Hi Northerner,
> 
> I hope things get sorted for you.
> Sorry to hear about your night time issues - its awful when you have broken sleep.
> ...



Thanks Lucy  There always seems to be a transitional period when I step up the training, only to be expected really - what's really difficult though, is working out how to tackle it safely without your blood sugar levels going crazy!


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## Robster65 (Aug 19, 2010)

Northerner said:


> http://www.diabetessupport.co.uk/boards/showthread.php?t=673



Thanks for this. I programmed it in and the laptop melted.

I've largely given up on trying to find any set patterns. There's as many exceptions as there are scenarios. We have a notepad detailing the last few weeks intake, insulin and exercise and flick through to find a 'similar to'. It may eventually show patterns linked to sunspot activity or interglacials. I'm not really this cynical.

Rob


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## Northerner (Aug 19, 2010)

Robster65 said:


> Thanks for this. I programmed it in and the laptop melted.
> 
> I've largely given up on trying to find any set patterns. There's as many exceptions as there are scenarios. We have a notepad detailing the last few weeks intake, insulin and exercise and flick through to find a 'similar to'. It may eventually show patterns linked to sunspot activity or interglacials. I'm not really this cynical.
> 
> Rob



Haha! Love it! There might be a poem idea there!


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## Northerner (Aug 19, 2010)

Well, just tested and I'm 5.2 4 hours post meal, so it will be coming down from that over the next hour  - really thought I had seriously underdosed for my tea, 10 units instead of the 16 I would have had last week! Looks like more toast, jam and peanut butter! Now - do I reduce the lantus again? Think I might risk it and see what happens...


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## lucy123 (Aug 19, 2010)

Hope the night goes well Alan


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## Northerner (Aug 19, 2010)

lucy123 said:


> Hope the night goes well Alan



Thank you Lucy


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## Northerner (Aug 20, 2010)

I woke in the night at around 4:30 and was 6.3 - was 6.1 this morning. Going to see how I go through the day and decide whether 5 lantus is too low a dose.


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## Northerner (Aug 21, 2010)

An odd day yesterday - I woke to 6.1, after breakfast and before run I was 11 (high for me) and 9.3 on return. I was then 7.3 before lunch and thinking that maybe my lantus was now too low, but then I was 4.3 before tea. I was 6.0 before bed, woke in the night and was 5.0 and then woke this morning to 4.7 which is the lowest waking level I've had for ages so it seems the lantus isn't too low - might even have to change again! (I'd also been having far less novorapid than I would have a week or so ago)


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## tracey w (Aug 21, 2010)

Northerner said:


> Well, it seems hypos do wake me up! Went to bed a bit earlier and woke about 2 hours later feeling a little 'odd'. Tested at 2.1  No real symptoms, except it didn't feel like 'sleepiness' when I woke. That's my fourth hypo in 24 hours - have also had a 3.7, a 2.2 and a 2.9. Think I might have to reduce my lantus.
> 
> Now absolutely ravenous and trying to resist the urge to overtreat! I've already had two biscuits, three jelly babies and some lucozade!  Just tested (half an hour later) and I'm 5.6, so back to bed I think!



Yep, woken by hypo at 2.30 this morning, I was 2.4

I dont know why but even though I know I am clearly low, I still test before treating, not sure this is a good habit. But I cant help it. I knew I was obviously very low, but still went downstairs to get my meter. why do I do this?


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## tracey w (Aug 21, 2010)

Northerner said:


> An odd day yesterday - I woke to 6.1, after breakfast and before run I was 11 (high for me) and 9.3 on return. I was then 7.3 before lunch and thinking that maybe my lantus was now too low, but then I was 4.3 before tea. I was 6.0 before bed, woke in the night and was 5.0 and then woke this morning to 4.7 which is the lowest waking level I've had for ages so it seems the lantus isn't too low - might even have to change again! (I'd also been having far less novorapid than I would have a week or so ago)



Do you think your breakfast ratio needs to be increased? Is this a pattern or a one off Northe?


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## Northerner (Aug 21, 2010)

tracey w said:


> Yep, woken by hypo at 2.30 this morning, I was 2.4
> 
> I dont know why but even though I know I am clearly low, I still test before treating, not sure this is a good habit. But I cant help it. I knew I was obviously very low, but still went downstairs to get my meter. why do I do this?



I always test first too, as I usually can't tell if I am low or just sleepy.I keep a meter by my bed, but annoyingly last night it decided to fail on the first strip I put in, then gave a battery error on the second so I had to go downstairs to get my other meter!



tracey w said:


> Do you think your breakfast ratio needs to be increased? Is this a pattern or a one off Northe?



It's all part of dealing with this recent run pf lows - I think I try and keep the breakfast dose lower than it really ought to be because at all other times I seem to be injecting too much! There's such a contrast to what I need in the morning and what I need later on!


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## tracey w (Aug 21, 2010)

Northerner said:


> I always test first too, as I usually can't tell if I am low or just sleepy.I keep a meter by my bed, but annoyingly last night it decided to fail on the first strip I put in, then gave a battery error on the second so I had to go downstairs to get my other meter!
> 
> Typical!
> 
> It's all part of dealing with this recent run pf lows - I think I try and keep the breakfast dose lower than it really ought to be because at all other times I seem to be injecting too much! There's such a contrast to what I need in the morning and what I need later on!



I know its difficult. I have been having lows after breakfast for the first time ever, after finally sorting the dreaded DP! been lowering my basal over the last week, but am going to try a lower ratio tomorrow. Unfortunately I think it is something that is always changing and we just have to try and keep on top of it as best we can.


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## Robster65 (Aug 21, 2010)

Also had a good one at 3am. Tested 2.2 so had a JB and Alpen to see me through, then decided things weren't improving, so had can of coke. Re tested and GF wouldn't tell me what it was btu opened another can and had another JB. Once I started to recover, she told me I had tested LO (below 1.1).
Only had a fairly easy stroll in the evening but it seemed to affect me out of proportion.

Really would love to get hands on one of those constant monitoring meters. 

Rob


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## Northerner (Aug 21, 2010)

Robster65 said:


> Also had a good one at 3am. Tested 2.2 so had a JB and Alpen to see me through, then decided things weren't improving, so had can of coke. Re tested and GF wouldn't tell me what it was btu opened another can and had another JB. Once I started to recover, she told me I had tested LO (below 1.1).
> Only had a fairly easy stroll in the evening but it seemed to affect me out of proportion.
> 
> Really would love to get hands on one of those constant monitoring meters.
> ...



Eek! Sounds like you have a very good case for getting one on loan - ask your DSN what the procedures are for getting one. I've never been that low, and you must have been really dropping to still be low after all those carbs 

Hope you don't have too much of a hypo-hangover today. I've been lucky in that my hypos haven't given me a sore head afterwards.


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## Robster65 (Aug 21, 2010)

I'm not holding out any great hope. They prob haven't heard of them 

I tend not to get a headache, other than from loss of sleep. I have had many nausea days after bad hypos though. When I really go out for the count and start convulsing and the old glucagon comes into play, it leaves you feeling like you've had an hour on the waltzers. Yeueurk. 

My DSN has a reputation for forgetting about appointments, so we're going to check with the surgery on monday that she has actually been in touch with the hospital clinic.

We're going to repeat last night's tea and go for the same walk, but this time have different food afterwards. Hopefully it will have a different outcome.

Rob


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## Northerner (Aug 21, 2010)

Well, having hugely under-dosed for my evening meal, I am now 6.9 which seems like a good figure to go to bed on. Hope to sleep through tonight, all this broken sleep is catching up with me! No snack and 5 lantus, run tomorrow if the weather isn't totally rubbish!


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## am64 (Aug 21, 2010)

hope you get a good night sleep xx


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## Northerner (Aug 22, 2010)

Woke up to a 5.3 this morning, so obviously have got the lantus adjustments just about right. I did wake in the night but didn't bother with a test as I'd been 6.9 before bed which is quite high for me these days


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## everydayupsanddowns (Aug 22, 2010)

Northerner said:


> Woke up to a 5.3 this morning, so obviously have got the lantus adjustments just about right. I did wake in the night but didn't bother with a test as I'd been 6.9 before bed which is quite high for me these days



Let's hope your basal leaves you alone for a bit now... So annoying when it changes from one month to the next.

How are you doing with breakfasts these days? I'm having to give my breakfast basal a bit of a head start (20-45 minutes) to keep the spikes even vaguely under control. Blummin liver action!


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## Northerner (Aug 22, 2010)

Grr! Tested an hour ago before injecting lantus and was 5.3 so I had a slice of PB. Just tested now and I'm 4.1!  Not sure what to eat now, as the peanut butter bread is probably still digesting. Might just try a couple of jelly babies and see how it goes.


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## Steff (Aug 23, 2010)

Northerner said:


> Grr! Tested an hour ago before injecting lantus and was 5.3 so I had a slice of PB. Just tested now and I'm 4.1!  Not sure what to eat now, as the peanut butter bread is probably still digesting. Might just try a couple of jelly babies and see how it goes.



Hi Northey hope the jelly babies worked and you had a good nights sleep x


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## Northerner (Aug 23, 2010)

Steffie said:


> Hi Northey hope the jelly babies worked and you had a good nights sleep x



Thanks Steffie  It seems the jelly babies were exactly the right amount of carbs I needed. I woke at around 2:30 and tested at 4.6. I decided not to eat anything, but trust that I would wake up, and when I rose this morning I was 4.3 - how's about that for steady levels?!! I know some of you are probably holding up your hands in horror and would have scoffed something extra after seeing the 4.6, but there didn't seem to be any reason why I should drop any lower.


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## novorapidboi26 (Aug 23, 2010)

Unless I felt dodgy I wouldnt take anything at 4.6 as its not actually low.....

I only ever find myself at this level before meals anyway........


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## everydayupsanddowns (Aug 23, 2010)

Northerner said:


> I woke at around 2:30 and tested at 4.6. I decided not to eat anything, but trust that I would wake up, and when I rose this morning I was 4.3 - how's about that for steady levels?!!



Top work Northie  You're my hero!

I had a little something yesterday evening as I was a bit borderline (4.9ish) and knew I still had some active insulin chugging away. Tested at suppertime 10.7!!  

Hands up who thinks they'd do better with their own CGMS? Me. Me! MEEEEEEE! 

Pump problem and CGMS envy


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## Northerner (Aug 24, 2010)

I was 5.3 before bed - a little low considering recent events, so I had a slice of PB. Woke around 4:30 and tested at 4.9, got up to a reading of 4.8 so it looks like I've got the lantus just about right now at 5 units, down from 8 a fortnight ago. My waking levels are also about 1-2 mmol lower too, so possibly need to go to 4 units sometimes soon!


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## lucy123 (Aug 24, 2010)

That sounds great news Northerner. Lets hope things settle. How is the running now?


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## Northerner (Aug 24, 2010)

lucy123 said:


> That sounds great news Northerner. Lets hope things settle. How is the running now?



Thanks Lucy  I managed a short run this morning and it went OK. I decided not to take the increased BP meds because I think going for a run does me more good than more pills!


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## Northerner (Aug 24, 2010)

Well, my insulin has been decreased again today, and I'm still not lowering it enough! I just tested before my lantus injection and I was 4.6 - too low for going to bed on. Annoyed, because I'd deliberately given less NR than I thought I'd need and was preparing to be quite high! I had 9 units for a big plate of mash and sausage casserole, followed by some tinned peaches and half a bag of Minstrels. That would have been at least 16 units, possibly 18 a couple of weeks ago!.

I've had a slice of PB again and lowered my lantus from 5 to 4 units. Wonder how much lower it will go before I'm finished?


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## meandyou (Aug 25, 2010)

Northerner said:


> Well, it seems hypos do wake me up! Went to bed a bit earlier and woke about 2 hours later feeling a little 'odd'. Tested at 2.1  No real symptoms, except it didn't feel like 'sleepiness' when I woke. That's my fourth hypo in 24 hours - have also had a 3.7, a 2.2 and a 2.9. Think I might have to reduce my lantus.
> 
> Now absolutely ravenous and trying to resist the urge to overtreat! I've already had two biscuits, three jelly babies and some lucozade!  Just tested (half an hour later) and I'm 5.6, so back to bed I think!


hi northerner when i have hypo,s in my sleep i awake to a sweat soaked bed.


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## Northerner (Aug 25, 2010)

meandyou said:


> hi northerner when i have hypo,s in my sleep i awake to a sweat soaked bed.



Hi meandyou, welcome to the forum  I used to wake sweating, now I just tend to feel slightly hotter than expected. I'm not sure why this has changed - I used to be absolutely drenched, and I know this is quite common. Hope they don't happen too often for you!

Well, last night I was 4.6 before bed, so I had my peanut butter, decreased my lantus to 4 units and woke this morning to...4.6! I wonder if I had taken 5 units if I would have hypoed? This means that I have lowered my basal by 50% in the last 14 days!


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## Northerner (Aug 26, 2010)

The downward trend continues - last night I was 6.8 before bed, so didn't snack. I woke this morning to 4.0! I've now been in the 4s all week, down from the 5s or 6s I was getting before, despite halving my lantus. I'm now wondering if I need to drop down another unit on the lantus, taking me to a ridiculously low 3 units!

One thing that has changed is that I haven't drunk any alcohol for the past fortnight, apart from 2 pints last Friday lunchtime, so I'm wondering if this has allowed my liver to 'calm down' and it is now producing a steadier trickle of glucose rather than the surges it might have been doing before due to the yo-yoing effects of alcohol. Who knows? This is diabetes, after all!


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## Northerner (Aug 26, 2010)

Grrr! After a fairly good day with the levels (4.0, 5.7, 4.9) I have once again failed to get my teatime novorapid right and am now on 3.9 before bed! Only took 9 units for a meal that would have happily been 16 units a couple of weeks ago. I'm now debating whether to drop my lantus down to 3 units. I did go for a run today, so part of this low is probably the after effects of that, that I didn't properly take into account (I tried!).

3 lantus just sounds ridiculously low though!

edit: have gone for the 3 lantus! Wonder what I'll wake up to?


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