# Hungary to punish diabetics if they don't stick to diet



## Northerner (Apr 23, 2012)

Hungarian diabetics who fail to stick to their diet will be deprived of more modern treatments from July, under a government decree published Monday aimed at cutting health spending.

Diabetics undergo a blood test on average every three months and those who score high levels of glycemia more than twice a year could be turned away from treatments with analog insulin -- more efficient but also more expensive -- and left with the less efficient human insulin, under the new rules.

Currently, all diabetes treatments are subsidised by the state, which hopes to reduce health spending with the new rules.

http://www.france24.com/en/20120423-hungary-punish-diabetics-they-dont-stick-diet

Ridiculous!


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## trophywench (Apr 23, 2012)

Good grief.  (what I really want to say isn't printable)

Are they in the EU?



If Captain Hook can go to the European Court re alleged discrimination, having his Civil Liberties breached etc, then Hungarian diabetics ought to be able to.  And what the hell are the Diabetes Association doing backing it?


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## Medusa (Apr 24, 2012)

that is shocking surely those with high readings need the medication most grrrr grrr


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## Steff (Apr 24, 2012)

Trophey yes they are in the EU 

When I read this I thought torture, just absolutly ridiculous poor people


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## Sazzaroo (Apr 24, 2012)

_That is terrible (and what i'm going to say next may be controversial but only my opinion)

I think to help spending with anything it may help people to be encouraged to be  held accountable for their actions. I'm not talking specifics here and to stop peoples meds would never be something I condone at all.

I know what I mean here but may not come across that well without going into detail.

Back to thread, I hope something can be done to help and people won't have to suffer because of new rules_


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## Pumper_Sue (Apr 24, 2012)

> Diabetics undergo a blood test on average every three months and those who score high levels of glycemia more than twice a year could be turned away from treatments with analog insulin -- more efficient but also more expensive -- and left with the less efficient human insulin, under the new rules.


 Research has shown that analogues are more expensive but not more effective.


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## trophywench (Apr 24, 2012)

Well it really depends on how well Hungarian medics explain diabetes to Hungarian diabetics, doesn't it?

If all Diabetics got DAFNE'd etc and whatever the equivalent would be for a T2 (haven't heard of any such good courses for T2 - yes I know DESMOND and X-pert, but from what I've heard they seem to shove high carb every mealtime down everyone's neck too)  with really excellent doctors and nurses then perhaps it would be the Diabetics' 'fault' and perhaps if they had really good psychological services whereby teens and twenties didn't go 'off the rails' quite as often as they do here, and all diabetics were given the wherewithal to test properly and frequently enough and blah blah blah.

Sue, I know you didn't have success on Analogues.  So if they said we're changing you to eg Humulin and there's an end to it - you can't have animal insulin any more because we've decided - would you be happy?  I know I wouldn't - worst years of my diabetic life.  No hypo symptoms .......


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## HOBIE (Apr 25, 2012)

Remind me not LIVE there !!!!


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## Pumper_Sue (Apr 25, 2012)

trophywench said:


> Sue, I know you didn't have success on Analogues.  So if they said we're changing you to eg Humulin and there's an end to it - you can't have animal insulin any more because we've decided - would you be happy?  I know I wouldn't - worst years of my diabetic life.  No hypo symptoms .......



With respect TW this is not the debate.
The research has shown no difference in effectiveness. It does not mention allergies does it?
Obviously if you are allergic to a treatment an alternative is used.
NICE guidelines also state that people should be started on the human form of insulin first. Nice have only just agreed to sanction Levemir for type 2's.(Even though it's been used for ages by type 2's in this country)


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## cakemaker (Apr 25, 2012)

That is absolutely disgraceful.


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## trophywench (Apr 26, 2012)

I had more trips in ambulances - and a Police car once - to various hospitals whilst on Humulin than ever before or since, so I really don't think it will save money!!!!

Never before H, once since coming off H.

On H, about 12.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Apr 26, 2012)

I'm not really sure what I think about this.

It seems AGAIN about education. I don't believe removing treatment options is helpful. The blame seems to be being placed at the door of the patient (non-compliance being assumed).

We all know that managing diabetes is nothing like as simple as take injection/tablet a and results b will naturally follow.

These people might be assumed to be scoffing cake and biscuits, when perhaps their 'mistake' is following the very dietary guidelines they are instructed with.

So many HCPs in this country still seem to think that sugar is the be-all and end-all of dietary control required - if that's the case in Hungary too then good results will not necessarily follow whether on analogue or NPH.

It doesn't matter *what* insulin people are given to take if they are not taught to use it properly.


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## trophywench (Apr 26, 2012)

Hear flipping Hear.


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## cakemaker (Apr 26, 2012)

Northerner said:


> Hungarian diabetics who fail to stick to their diet will be deprived of more modern treatments from July, under a government decree published Monday aimed at cutting health spending.
> 
> Diabetics undergo a blood test on average every three months and those who score high levels of glycemia more than twice a year could be turned away from treatments with analog insulin -- more efficient but also more expensive -- and left with the less efficient human insulin, under the new rules.
> 
> ...


After reading this I wondered why and searched for info on Hungarian socio economic problems. I read a report Nov. 2006 which basically said that Hungary was going down the pan and they had to take drastic action. 

The reasons for the austerity measures were to do with the introduction of the Euro. There is a high rate of unemployment and the policies will in real terms reduce wages and standards of living.This doesn't in my opinion justify taking medical care away from the populace.
I imagine that lower living standards and wages will mean less money to spend on good food. The added stress of dieting and less money will no doubt have a big impact on some lives. Poor people.

And we moan about the NHS!

Anyway; thought you'd like to know; or not!!


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## AJLang (Apr 26, 2012)

That is absolutely awful.  I had loads of problems on Insulatard - particularly with the insulin running out so that my BGs started to rise from 4pm even if I hadn't eaten - and nighttime hypos were a regular occurrence - so Levemir is much better for me.  There are aso many reasons why it is difficult to get a good HBA1c e.g. going through a large period of stress, gastroparesis etc - it would be awful for these people to be "punished" for reasons beyond their controlled. HBA1Cs every three months makes it sounds like they are being policed rather than treated like humans.


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## FM001 (Apr 27, 2012)

Do they not have human rights in Hungary


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## slimjim (Apr 28, 2012)

*diabetic medcines*

we in Britain had better keep an eye on the Hungary situation as we all know the EU will put this on us as well soon they have tried everything else so why not this if it does it is about time people of Britain stand up and be counted and tell the EU that unlike our government we will stand up to you


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## Northerner (Apr 29, 2012)

Hungary justifies its decision:

The public reimbursement system for medicines of patients suffering from diabetes and prostate cancer has been recently amended. The provisions concern medicines of the above mentioned patient groups with increased (50%, 70%, 90%) and super increased (100%) reimbursement rates. The aim of the amendment was to further specify previous provisions, as well as to enhance the practical application of professional rules.


According to the new provisions, since 1 July 2012 the use of analogous insulin therapy, following a one-year period of application, may only continue if the patient?s appropriate carbohydrate metabolism target values, based on two measurements, were sustainable during the six months prior to the renewal of the specialist?s recommendation.

The Ministry of National Resources (NEFMI) expects the current amendment to significantly improve the effectiveness of insulin therapies for patients suffering from diabetes. The advantages of analogous insulin therapy ? which is rather more expensive than human insulin ? and the justification of its public financing can only prevail if patients fully comply with their doctors? therapeutic recommendations.

It is important to note that we do not wish to penalize chronic patients, on the contrary: we wish to treat and support them in a way that motivates general practitioners (GP), via the GP indicator system, as well as specialists to constantly check their patients? condition.

http://www.xpatloop.com/news/more_effective_insulin_therapy_for_patients_with_diabetes_in_hungary

So, how do they determine whether someone is complying, but unable to get control within targets, and people who are not complying - can they really do it on the basis of two (presumably HbA1c) tests a year? Given a lot of the experiences I've read on the forum, that is simply not possible because there are so many factors to consider. It's not automatic that the dietary and lifestyle changes along with any medication will succeed as the goalposts can move signiflcantly even if someone tries their hardest. I do understand that people need to take responsibility, but it sounds like quite a few people who do will still fall through the net. How will this make them feel? Depressed, despondent, guilty, a failure...


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## lightbulb (Apr 29, 2012)

*Human Rights?*

Hi 

This seems totally ridiculous. I would be really shocked if this was allowed to go through as it would seriously raise questions around human rights.


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## trophywench (Apr 29, 2012)

Which is exactly what I said back or Page 1, lightbulb !


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