# Media mess.



## Bill Stewardson (Jun 9, 2017)

It is heartening to see that the media does not have the power over the public that it likes to think that it has.

Whatever your political leaning, the media needed to be put in its place.

It now has been.


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## Vicsetter (Jun 9, 2017)

I completely fail to understand this posting, can you explain please.


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## Bill Stewardson (Jun 9, 2017)

Yes

To listen to the media- all forms- the recent election was a clear cut landslide walk over, they could not have been more incorrect in any way.

They did all that they could to convince the general public into either not bothering to vote, or see that voting for one particular party was a wasted vote.

And the public rejected the whole biased approach and went their own way.

Ofcourse the public will quickly forget and continue to buy such empty brainless gutter comics, and immerse themselves in celebrity rubbish.


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## Lucy Honeychurch (Jun 9, 2017)

A poke in the eye for Murdoch et al!


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## Bill Stewardson (Jun 9, 2017)

Not just Murdoch, you struggle these days to find straight forward unbiased coverage, Sky news and the Beeb have been shocking for a while.

Thing is, I'm old enough to remember when  news was simply delivered without bias,

If only those days could return. Just look at what the top selling papers are,
Some of the biased telly stuff has been shameful. It really is not acceptable, lots of people think the garbage they put out is true !


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## Copepod (Jun 9, 2017)

Try Independent newspaper (only online these days), i newspaper and Channel 4 news. Independent and i were the only papers not to endorse any political party, just campaign to encourage voting.


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## Bill Stewardson (Jun 9, 2017)

I have bought the Independent now and again, prefer the Guardian.

All of the broadsheets are a million times better than the tabloids.

That cartoon in the Standard mocking Diane Abbot was disgraceful. Guess who edits that??

Puzzles me why they aren't forced to at least be more truthful and respectful sometimes.


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## Amigo (Jun 9, 2017)

These election results clearly highlight for me the fabulous unpredictability of the great British public who are perhaps not as gullible as the media or politicians suspect. I think there is an inherent goodness out there, a sense of fair play and a generous heap of self protection too of course amongst Joe Public. Even though Corbyn isn't universally popular, people still baulked at the idea of swingeing welfare cuts and measures that hit at the elderly who have worked all their lives to secure their homes for their families. The Tory Manifesto had a greater impact than distorted media reporting because some of us really can think for ourselves. All the vilification of Corbyn didn't stop people making up their own minds and whilst he didn't win, the result will hopefully result in a more powerful mandate to challenge inequities.


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## Bill Stewardson (Jun 9, 2017)

Yes, without getting into ones personal leanings, it has been quite a stark example of just how blatantly wrong the media set out to be.

I suppose it's just another example of a certain party taking yet more lead from the American playbook, which really is a sad day.
They even had "individuals" holding up signs behind May while she was speaking, pointless but just how our American friends do it.


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## Amigo (Jun 9, 2017)

You couldn't pay me enough money to try and keep ole 'Donald's media profile and high and principled!


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## Lucy Honeychurch (Jun 9, 2017)

Ignore the young at your peril! Many young people get their news on line, it's us oldies that read newspapers 
Labour galvanised young voters through social media. The Labour Party had a lot of support from the young,  my eldest son and daughter and most of their friends voted Labour. They prefer the pro social policies of the Labour party and very opposed to welfare cuts to the disabled, and cuts to the nhs and education.


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## Amigo (Jun 9, 2017)

Lucy Honeychurch said:


> Ignore the young at your peril! Many young people get their news on line, it's us oldies that read newspapers
> Labour galvanised young voters through social media. The Labour Party had a lot of support from the young,  my eldest son and daughter and most of their friends voted Labour. They prefer the pro social policies of the Labour party and very opposed to welfare cuts to the disabled, and cuts to the nhs and education.



Quite right Lucy and the University fees issue was a biggie I think. I was amazed how many voiced their opposition to fox hunting too. Good for them!


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## Lucy Honeychurch (Jun 9, 2017)

Amigo said:


> Quite right Lucy and the University fees issue was a biggie I think. I was amazed how many voiced their opposition to fox hunting too. Good for them!



Your right, they have a good moral compass and social conscience, make me hopeful for the future


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## Bill Stewardson (Jun 9, 2017)

Absolutely spot on. The young today have a whole lot to contend with and are far too often tarred with one brush.

Interesting that they all draw news from the WWW, those who have scapegoated the Net lately over look the good things about it, free educational resources being one.


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## trophywench (Jun 9, 2017)

Well contrary to popular media beliefs, some of the elderly do still have working brains and attempt to sort the wheat from the chaff.

I hark back to whenever it was I personally first got access to the internet.  If I entered the word 'Diabetes' into my search engine (Yahoo at that time) I got quite a lot of medical sites (I already had the textbook though so that wasn't of real interest or written in easily understandable ways) and about a million sites that told me cinnamon cured T2.  I may have been a T1, but I did have a working brain and a Biology O level LOL so knew absolutely that was complete bollards and it wouldn't !  I gave up bothering.  Few years later I'd casually look again - same results - nothing new or interesting.

That's exactly where we are with politics worldwide, now.

The broadsheets have ALWAYS had better information as a whole than tabloids - and this has always been apparent since the first time I picked up and read the Birmingham Post (the broadsheet morning paper) when I was 17, which we took at work whereas the paper my family took daily at home was the B'ham Evening Mail so I always read that anyway.  Interesting to compare the same news items from the same publisher, written in further and deeper detail, with the names of the sources in the morning edition compared to the one I read last night.  So - nothing has changed there, for over 50 years to my personal knowledge.

Each person has to have a brain capable of sorting the wheat from the chaff, and the only way a person can do that is to have sufficient knowledge of the subject matter in the first place.

Some people, don't.

Personally - I would really really like us to have proportional representation in government and a smaller 'top' House to enable PROPER debating of all issues brought before them.

If they were school children behaving like Parliament does whilst supposed to be going about their business of managing the nation - half of them would have been expelled by now.  If only Betty Boothroyd led the Labour party ......


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## Lucy Honeychurch (Jun 9, 2017)

I agree about proportional representation, first past the post has had its day.


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## grovesy (Jun 9, 2017)

trophywench said:


> Well contrary to popular media beliefs, some of the elderly do still have working brains and attempt to sort the wheat from the chaff.
> 
> I hark back to whenever it was I personally first got access to the internet.  If I entered the word 'Diabetes' into my search engine (Yahoo at that time) I got quite a lot of medical sites (I already had the textbook though so that wasn't of real interest or written in easily understandable ways) and about a million sites that told me cinnamon cured T2.  I may have been a T1, but I did have a working brain and a Biology O level LOL so knew absolutely that was complete bollards and it wouldn't !  I gave up bothering.  Few years later I'd casually look again - same results - nothing new or interesting.
> 
> ...





Lucy Honeychurch said:


> I agree about proportional representation, first past the post has had its day.


Caroline Lucas of the Green Party tried to get a debate on voting recently and the Conservative s talked it out so it never got a chance to be debated.


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## Amigo (Jun 9, 2017)

Yes, interesting that a party who got only 1.5% of the total vote could become political 'kingmakers in Parliament' to keep the Conservatives in power (regardless of any policy affiliations).


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## ypauly (Jun 9, 2017)

Corbyn lost the election, convincingly I might add, yet people talk like he won, it's a strange world sometimes.

Agree with most of the posts especially about joing the DUP as this risks years of peace in Northern Ireland.

May should put country before party and step down and if the mean revoking article 50 and postponing any form of brexit, she should do it. Let somebody else see if they can get the confidence of the house (not corbyn though as he can't get the confidence of his own party).

Ideal world would be corbyn gone, may gone and a lab/con coalition until brexit is delivered, that way it will be done properly.


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## mikeyB (Jun 9, 2017)

Corbyn has won back the confidence of his party. They thought he was a loser, and there are many new MPs who are thinking - he must have got it right. Conservative MPs, on the other hand, particularly those with a P45 in their fist, are thinking she got it wrong. Very wrong. 

I agree May should step down, before she is stabbed in the back, the usual Tory means of sorting their leaders out. The possible successors offer a nightmare scenario. And a coalition with the odious DUP is beyond belief. Anti gay, anti abortion, fixated in the past. If that's her deperate attempt to get a working majority it might even persuade Sinn Fein to take up their parliamentary seats - and there's more of them.


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## ypauly (Jun 9, 2017)

I can't believe she has even given the DUP a thought, to be honest and I'm as Tory as they come. I also don't believe Corbyn has won back the confidence of his party, there is a good front bench opposition team sitting behind him and I don't see any of them wanting to return to the front bench.


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## ypauly (Jun 9, 2017)

May has to go for me, but if I was Labour corbyn would have to go too, he lost, and he lost by miles to the worst conservative campaign I can remember, he should have romped it.


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## trophywench (Jun 10, 2017)

Excuse me Paul but I was very undecided prior to the actual campaign.  I very much disliked the me me ME approach Teresa took - no-one across Britain as a whole outside her own constituency could possibly vote for her, yet only about twice did I ever hear her say the word 'we' and scarcely the word 'party' either, disgraceful from any party leader.

She also didn't campaign to the likes of me - only speaking to the chosen in the places she chose to go - whereas Mr Corbyn concentrated particularly on the marginal and also motivated a very great number of new voters to register, and actually use their votes, especially young people.  A much greater number of people than for the actual Brexit vote.  However Jeremy responded to the media all the way through and I have to say though some of his ideas don't coincide with my own - be a boring existence if I agreed with everything anyone seemed to think - 99% of what he said during the campaign just sounded like absolute sense to me - and for about 6 months previously when I've read or heard this that and the other - he had already gone up hugely in my estimation.  That's from Nil 'perfectly useless to anyone for anything' to 'Hang on - that sounds perfectly right and we should be better off with that issue if we were to do that' so maybe 60%.  I kept looking for the snags, the 'Hang on - this is too right - where's the thing he isn't taking into account?'  After failing to identify snags with an awful lot of what he and other Labour candidates said, it went up again.  Meanwhile Teresa failed to make any impression other than the fact she's an immovable object and can only read or deliver pre-prepared statements and always gets in a mess when she needs to deviate a bit.  Reciting her equivalent of 'I am Spartacus!' a million times literally ad infinitum.

Admittedly I do like Baroness Varsi and what she says generally - cos she talks sense too, but unless the leaders of any party also talk sense - well, they'd never get my vote frankly.

I'm not too sure whether Philip Hammond is up to job of leading the party - but who on earth is?


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## ypauly (Jun 10, 2017)

The best election round up yet, you'll like this Trophywench LOL





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=760848020706961


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## Bill Stewardson (Jun 10, 2017)

In the cold light of day, courting the DUP should be enough in itself to bring about the ejection of Theresa.
How the hell do you follow Cameron, May, ????
Methinks that warm bag of laughs Amber Rudd.


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## Amigo (Jun 10, 2017)

ypauly said:


> The best election round up yet, you'll like this Trophywench LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh I'm happily voting every Monday as St. Doreen's day (seeing as it's my mother's name!).

Funny!


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## grovesy (Jun 10, 2017)

How the hell do you follow Cameron, May, ????
Methinks that warm bag of laughs Amber Rudd.[/QUOTE]
The pundits are saying Rudd has not got a big enough majority to be considered for leader.


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## Bill Stewardson (Jun 10, 2017)

Just to point this thread back towards media coverage and bias, the head of BBC News ,James Harding, is a close personal friend of both Gideon Osborne and David Cameron. 
Is it any wonder we get such one sided national coverage.
As a licence payer I see this as not acceptable.
Then we have Murdochs Sky news, the "press preview"has been nothing more than an anti Corbyn onslaught for a long time, wonder how they will try to keep the bias going now ?


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## trophywench (Jun 10, 2017)

I'm a great fan of our D'reen - she usually says quite a lot of what I'm thinking, whilst continuing with her mundane existence - since of course all we always do, is just gerron with it, as per ruddy usual, ay it?  LOL


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## Bill Stewardson (Jun 11, 2017)

In her desperation for absolute power May would willingly risk peace in the Emerald Isle,,, says it all.


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## mikeyB (Jun 11, 2017)

ypauly said:


> The best election round up yet, you'll like this Trophywench LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was with Doreen all the way. Until she suggested imposing the Chuckle Brothers on an unsuspecting population....


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## mikeyB (Jun 11, 2017)

Bill Stewardson said:


> In her desperation for absolute power May would willingly risk peace in the Emerald Isle,,, says it all.


I bet you are one of those nasty people in Sheffield who booted out that nice Mr Clegg (cue sniggering)


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## Matt Cycle (Jun 11, 2017)

mikeyB said:


> I bet you are one of those nasty people in Sheffield who booted out that nice Mr Clegg (cue sniggering)



That was one of the best things about it and thanks to my fellow Sheffielders booting Cleggy out we can now say they actually have the Socialist Republic of South Yorkshire with all the MP's and all four councils Sheffield, Barnsley, Rotherham and Doncaster being Labour controlled.  People have long memories and don't forget things easily.







The new political map of South Yorkshire.  Cleggy had Sheffield Hallam in the bottom left about as wealthy an area you can imagine although there are a fair few students in it as well.  It was tory held until the liberals got in in 1997.


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## Bill Stewardson (Jun 11, 2017)

Matt Cycle said:


> That was one of the best things about it and thanks to my fellow Sheffielders booting Cleggy out we can now say they actually have the Socialist Republic of South Yorkshire with all the MP's and all four councils Sheffield, Barnsley, Rotherham and Doncaster being Labour controlled.  People have long memories and don't forget things easily.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Cleggy prostituted himself to Cameron, there was never any coming back from that.


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## Bill Stewardson (Jun 11, 2017)

Odious turd Gove is back.


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## Ditto (Jun 11, 2017)

I do miss the days when you could say of course it's true, there it is in black and white...


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## mikeyB (Jun 12, 2017)

I'm pleased Sheffield is now back as the Socialist Republic of South Yorkshire. I like Sheffield a lot. It's built in seven hills, just like Rome, but the people are friendlier. And it's a hotbed of great music. What's not to like?


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## Bill Stewardson (Jun 12, 2017)

mikeyB said:


> I'm pleased Sheffield is now back as the Socialist Republic of South Yorkshire. I like Sheffield a lot. It's built in seven hills, just like Rome, but the people are friendlier. And it's a hotbed of great music. What's not to like?



Yes Mike, Sheffield has everything, the music scene is the best outside London, and, The Steel City is great for sport. People should use this city as a model for managing diversity of people.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 12, 2017)

ypauly said:


> Corbyn lost the election, convincingly I might add, yet people talk like he won, it's a strange world sometimes.
> 
> Agree with most of the posts especially about joing the DUP as this risks years of peace in Northern Ireland.
> 
> ...


I disagree with you on all points...Corbyn got the confidence of a large number of the voting public...that's why Theresa May failed to get enough seats for the Tories to have a landslide  in Parliament...where do you get the idea he lost the election convincingly?...it's the Labour Party manifesto that should be considered...thankfully that was considered...not the personality of the leader...or the 'myths' the press have been spouting about him...you're entitled to your opinion...as we all are...but what exactly is your objection to Corbyn?...you fail to make that clear.


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## MikeTurin (Jun 12, 2017)

trophywench said:


> Well contrary to popular media beliefs, some of the elderly do still have working brains and attempt to sort the wheat from the chaff.


Older people have different interests compared to younger people. 
You could find chaff on the telly and on Internet, and by the way using Facebook only to get information. 
And don't make the assumption that the new smartphone users youngster are more or better informed in respect to people that watch the telly or reads the newspaper. IT depends on what one watches.
I've some example from Italy: 
http://www.raiplay.it/programmi/in12ora/ 
http://www.video.mediaset.it/programma/dallavostraparte/archivio-video.shtml

There are both topical talk show, but even if you can't understand a word in Italian you can clearly find than the approach is totally orthogonal.




> Personally - I would really really like us to have proportional representation in government and a smaller 'top' House to enable PROPER debating of all issues brought before them.
> 
> If they were school children behaving like Parliament does whilst supposed to be going about their business of managing the nation - half of them would have been expelled by now.  If only Betty Boothroyd led the Labour party ......


I am absolutely positive that proportional representation makes a parliament to work better, because weakens the accountability link between voting citizens and elected people. Case in point: Italy. Proportional representation make corruption and public spendig rampant, then a "corrected" single turn voting mechanism made things a bit better, but with the syste used nowadays with locked lists and somewhat proportional representation all is going to be SNAFU. I suppose that a two turn uninominal or mixed uninomial / short proportional list should work better.


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## Bill Stewardson (Jun 12, 2017)

MikeTurin said:


> Older people have different interests compared to younger people.
> You could find chaff on the telly and on Internet, and by the way using Facebook only to get information.
> And don't make the assumption that the new smartphone users youngster are more or better informed in respect to people that watch the telly or reads the newspaper. IT depends on what one watches.
> I've some example from Italy:
> ...



Sorry, I don't see the connection between Italian  corruption and our electoral systems, seems to me that PR would just be fairer.


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## MikeTurin (Jun 12, 2017)

Bill Stewardson said:


> Sorry, I don't see the connection between Italian  corruption and our electoral systems, seems to me that PR would just be fairer.


Proportional representation make harder for the citizen to get rid of an unwanted politician, and makes easier the illegal vote-buying and excanges of niceties.


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## ypauly (Jun 12, 2017)

Bubbsie said:


> I disagree with you on all points...Corbyn got the confidence of a large number of the voting public...that's why Theresa May failed to get enough seats for the Tories to have a landslide  in Parliament...where do you get the idea he lost the election convincingly?...it's the Labour Party manifesto that should be considered...thankfully that was considered...not the personality of the leader...or the 'myths' the press have been spouting about him...you're entitled to your opinion...as we all are...but what exactly is your objection to Corbyn?...you fail to make that clear.


They are not myths, he has openly supported a group that wanted to destroy the UK, he may deny it now but over the last 30 odd years there is more than enough evidence to show he's lying. Secondly, he was 55 seats behind a conservative party that did badly, this despite offering free everything to everyone, that is not a victory that is a loss, the fact that he can't even get enough seats for a coalition means it was a bad loss made worse by the fact he should have won as his opponents played a terrible game.


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## Amigo (Jun 12, 2017)

ypauly said:


> They are not myths, he has openly supported a group that wanted to destroy the UK, he may deny it now but over the last 30 odd years there is more than enough evidence to show he's lying. Secondly, he was 55 seats behind a conservative party that did badly, this despite offering free everything to everyone, that is not a victory that is a loss, the fact that he can't even get enough seats for a coalition means it was a bad loss made worse by the fact he should have won as his opponents played a terrible game.



He got 40% of the votes to the Conservatives 42.4%. They went into the election as a triumphant party who thought they only had to sit on their hands to win. Nobody, absolutely nobody predicted he'd do as well. I accept he isn't universally popular which makes it even more remarkable. No heroes emerged from this election and the arrogance of the Tories has resulted in one almighty mess for the country with a PM dependent on the whim of a politically backward fringe group who should be playing no part in the moneumentous national decisions ahead of us. 

*UK vote share after 650 of 650 seats*
*Party* *%
CONConservative* 42.4
*LABLabour* 40.0
*LDLiberal Democrat* 7.4
*SNPScottish National Party* 3.0
*UKIPUKIP* 1.8
*GRNGreen Party* 1.6


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## Bill Stewardson (Jun 12, 2017)

ypauly said:


> They are not myths, he has openly supported a group that wanted to destroy the UK, he may deny it now but over the last 30 odd years there is more than enough evidence to show he's lying. Secondly, he was 55 seats behind a conservative party that did badly, this despite offering free everything to everyone, that is not a victory that is a loss, the fact that he can't even get enough seats for a coalition means it was a bad loss made worse by the fact he should have won as his opponents played a terrible game.



Pauly, you show all the signs of being unable to cope because the election result did not go the Tory way as it was expected to.
All and sundry acknowledge that Corbyn did a fantastic job, not you.
As for supporting a group that wanted to destroy the UK, Laura Kuensberg, amongst others, was censured by the BBC for " heavily editing" comments made by JC regarding that issue. Who is it who is siding with one side of that awful conflict now ?
While the youth of today are fetching vibrancy to UK politics, on the back of regaining what was rightfully there's in the first place, while the Labour movement is rapidly growing right across the country, while the majority of the richest constituency in the country is embracing Labour, you sit and contemplate what a terrible job the bloke who wants nuclear disarmament right across the planet, wants free education, etc did.
Maybe you could do this while gazing at the picture of Margaret on the back of your toilet door.


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## ypauly (Jun 12, 2017)

Oh how we could do with a Thatcher, or for that matter even a Blair right now. I don't care what colour rosette our leader wears, I just long for a good leader, sadly the few I see in our parliament are not interested.


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## Amigo (Jun 12, 2017)

ypauly said:


> Oh how we could do with a Thatcher, or for that matter even a Blair right now. I don't care what colour rosette our leader wears, I just long for a good leader, sadly the few I see in our parliament are not interested.



Can't disagree with the need for a strong, decisive leader but the prospect of another Meglomaniac Maggie brings me out in hives! 

The States wanted a strong leader with powerful, blunt rhetoric so we need to be careful of choosing cheesy charisma over ability. We certainly don't need a British version of Donald the lame duck!


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## Bubbsie (Jun 12, 2017)

ypauly said:


> They are not myths, he has openly supported a group that wanted to destroy the UK, he may deny it now but over the last 30 odd years there is more than enough evidence to show he's lying. Secondly, he was 55 seats behind a conservative party that did badly, this despite offering free everything to everyone, that is not a victory that is a loss, the fact that he can't even get enough seats for a coalition means it was a bad loss made worse by the fact he should have won as his opponents played a terrible game.


Really...which group exactly did he speak to that wanted to destroy the UK...could it be the same ones that Cameron & Blair and others spoke to...there are so many...secondly he did brilliantly against a barrage of bias reporting...back stabbers in his own party...rumours & supposition published daily...spoke to crowds of  voters...as opposed to small groups of a 'select few'...in just a few weeks...I would say that is a victory in any sense of the word...you seem to have missed the fact that Labour...lead by Jeremy Corbyn prevented the conservatives from having a majority of seats...that's why they have to go 'cap in hand' to the Unionists for their support...which will no doubt prove costly to the Conservatives & the rest of us...wouldn't be at all surprised if there is another election soon.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 12, 2017)

ypauly said:


> Oh how we could do with a Thatcher, or for that matter even a Blair right now. I don't care what colour rosette our leader wears, I just long for a good leader, sadly the few I see in our parliament are not interested.


Blair or Thatcher...you are living in the dim distant past.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 12, 2017)

Bill Stewardson said:


> Pauly, you show all the signs of being unable to cope because the election result did not go the Tory way as it was expected to.
> All and sundry acknowledge that Corbyn did a fantastic job, not you.
> As for supporting a group that wanted to destroy the UK, Laura Kuensberg, amongst others, was censured by the BBC for " heavily editing" comments made by JC regarding that issue. Who is it who is siding with one side of that awful conflict now ?
> While the youth of today are fetching vibrancy to UK politics, on the back of regaining what was rightfully there's in the first place, while the Labour movement is rapidly growing right across the country, while the majority of the richest constituency in the country is embracing Labour, you sit and contemplate what a terrible job the bloke who wants nuclear disarmament right across the planet, wants free education, etc did.
> Maybe you could do this while gazing at the picture of Margaret on the back of your toilet door.


Hadn't seen your comment before I responded Bill...wish I had...couldn't agree more.


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## Mark T (Jun 12, 2017)

Oh goody, a politics thread - an excellent way to have a verbal punch-up.

You are all wrong in any case, you should be all voting for the https://www.omrlp.com/


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## Bill Stewardson (Jun 12, 2017)

It wasnt meant to be politics only.

Was supposed to be looking at media bias.


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## ypauly (Jun 12, 2017)

Bubbsie said:


> Really...which group exactly did he speak to that wanted to destroy the UK.


Take your pick from this list, https://order-order.com/2017/06/08/100-times-jeremy-corbyn-sided-terrorists/


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## trophywench (Jun 12, 2017)

Bill Stewardson said:


> Odious turd Gove is back.



I 'liked' that Bill, since I agree with what you said.

To actually change the subject completely - I was really pleased that Vince Cable got back in.  Someone sensible - what a relief!   No he can't be Chancellor or Shadow C - but as a back-bencher he can say what he thinks to the serious press, if he can find any when he needs to.  And I for one look forward to hearing what he has to say!


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## Bill Stewardson (Jun 12, 2017)

ypauly said:


> Take your pick from this list, https://order-order.com/2017/06/08/100-times-jeremy-corbyn-sided-terrorists/



You really should (or probably do) read the beans the dandy or the SundaynSpo


ypauly said:


> Take your pick from this list, https://order-order.com/2017/06/08/100-times-jeremy-corbyn-sided-terrorists/



You really should (or do) read the Beano, Dandy or Sunday Sport.
Just for a bit of reality Michael Fallon met and shook hands with Al Hassad, so, glass houses and all that.
JC stands (and always has) for PEACE, and has always been prepared to meet with anyone to pursue that aim. I admire him for it.
The Govt meeting al Hassad was for profit from WMD. Then May went to church, to project her Christian virtues, JC spoke to the young.
Heres a thing, my son bled to death in a Basra field hospital, in the hope that a people would eventually live freely, a decade later death on a massive scale is viewed in pounds shillings and pence.
As usual it is the already well off making the profit, and the impoverished being trodden down, and people like YOU can do nothing but cling to petty tribalism in the hope of defending the indefensible.
Wars will happen, arms deals will happen, that is the human condition.
Petty minded people projecting any kind of "gain" from the antics of privileged incompetent buffoons allied to insatiable greed is not part of that condition it is part of an entirely different one.
Keep wriggling on the hook of blind faith and humane indifference.


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## Bill Stewardson (Jun 13, 2017)

trophywench said:


> I 'liked' that Bill, since I agree with what you said.
> 
> To actually change the subject completely - I was really pleased that Vince Cable got back in.  Someone sensible - what a relief!   No he can't be Chancellor or Shadow C - but as a back-bencher he can say what he thinks to the serious press, if he can find any when he needs to.  And I for one look forward to hearing what he has to say!



Yes, Cable does seem to have a genuine honesty about him, the alliance with  the Tories has fogged it though.


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## trophywench (Jun 13, 2017)

Well - the Tories rapidly shoved out anyone with any expertise in the Liberal Party to places where they couldn't use their expertise.  Of course - it would have led to disagreements - and they only wanted guaranteed cast iron dyed in the wool Yes Men.


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## Bubbsie (Jun 13, 2017)

ypauly said:


> Oh how we could do with a Thatcher, or for that matter even a Blair right now. I don't care what colour rosette our leader wears, I just long for a good leader, sadly the few I see in our parliament are not interested.





ypauly said:


> Take your pick from this list, https://order-order.com/2017/06/08/100-times-jeremy-corbyn-sided-terrorists/


Made me laugh pauly...a lot!


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## Bill Stewardson (Jun 13, 2017)

This thread was intended to be about Media Bias, and due mainly to one individual had gone off in another direction.
So, I am done with it.


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