# Freestyle Libre........Ready To Fly



## Diabeticliberty (Apr 15, 2016)

Ok folks, the meter and 2 sensors have arrived.  It came partly charged as most electronic stuff now seems to. It has however gone on charge since I intend to give it a full trial on a full charge and will be reporting back with things I find about it. Really complicated stuff such as 1. Why is the box yellow? How do I switch it on? Why is the display upside down? Hang on a minute I have the meter upside down - DOH!!!!!!! I intend to plug a sensor into my right arm (I sleep on my left hand side) either this of tomorrow evening and will report back in my own peculiar tongue of garbled English and text speak INNIT with some findings. I must confess I haven't been this excited since I gave my cats a worming tablet - each. 

To all of you who were kind and gracious enough to give me opinions,  tips and a good old heads up I would like to thank you all. Maybe this new device can tell a thing or two about myself. 


PS Gertrude and Daisy (kittens) do not have worms although they eat like they have got one each. 


See you all a bit later,
Geoff


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## Rosiecarmel (Apr 15, 2016)

Never had a libre so can't offer any advice but hope it works well for you!


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 15, 2016)

That's ok Rosie not a problem at all. On a far more important note how are you feeling now and are things improving for you?


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## Sally71 (Apr 15, 2016)

Good luck with your new toy - hope you find it useful!


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 15, 2016)

Well my fellow sugar loving hating loathing loving Forumites, I am now officially wired in. I have inserted the sensor and the meter has registered it and says it will be good to go in 60 minutes.


One small step for Geoffrey. One completely insignificant step to the rest of you but it's Friday night and those of you who aren't down the pub or break dancing are probably bored senseless. 

More later........


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## trophywench (Apr 15, 2016)

Ah - I think most people reckon it takes the site 24 hours to settle down, so don't 'start' it until the settling in period is done.  But anyway - you won't rely on any results it gives to begin with cos you have to make sure they are right before you do anyway.


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## SB2015 (Apr 15, 2016)

Don't forget to keep your fluids up (not the alcoholic ones) as dehydration certainly has a negative impact on the readings, especially at higher levels.  

I hope that you find it useful and look forward to hearing how you get on.


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## KookyCat (Apr 16, 2016)

The libre sounds nice, I'll be more excited about that later, the pressing question however, has to be, how are Gertrude and Daisy taking to this new development?  I do hope you're not turning your attention away from the young ladies for too long


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 16, 2016)

KookyCat said:


> The libre sounds nice, I'll be more excited about that later, the pressing question however, has to be, how are Gertrude and Daisy taking to this new development?  I do hope you're not turning your attention away from the young ladies for too long




The thing about the Moocat ladies is get a stick with a feather attached to the front end and run around the house so that they can chase it and they care little for Libre or anything else for that matter. Ahhhh for an uncomplicated life like theirs!!!!!!



Now for the meter. I am now 10 hours in to it. After the initial 60 minute initialisation which I found a little curious I was expecting issues but actually found none and it worked immediately. First the negatives or at least negative: it is reading 2mmols below my Accuchek Mobile device. That is not to say of course that the Libre is wrong and the Accuchek is right. I sometimes doubt the Accuchek results in any case. At 4.00am this morning my blood sugars were too low for it to read with my Accuchek showing 2.7mmols. No hypo symptoms in any case but that is a separate issue. Now for the positives: well actually I have already found a dammed sight more than I expected. To test my blood at daft o clock in the morning involves leaping out of bed and to the bathroom as I need light for the fingerprick and putting the blood on the reagent area. With the Libre the device can be plonked on the bedside cabinet and if you wake up it is idiot proof when half asleep. A major plus for me that one. It has a trending arrow to indicate whether your blood sugars are rising or falling. Interesting aspect. I think however you can determine this with all types of meter from a series of blood tests. A really , really big win for me is, unless I misunderstand things you can test at whatever frequency you choose without worrying that you are gonna burn up your prescription allocation. The graphical information on the display is pretty useful and I feel further tinkering with the management software may offer me loads of information that could prove really useful.

I do feel like a frozen turkey being scanned at a till in my local supermarket. I suppose I will get used to this.

I do keep second guessing the readings with manual blood tests. This is not a fault of the meter operating system it is just my trademark distrust of anything new and different.

My initial overall conclusion is it is not a massive leap forward. It is however quite a respectable jump and I feel I really can get along with it.


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## Sally71 (Apr 16, 2016)

I love the way you review!

You say that you could tell whether rising or falling with a normal meter by doing several tests; well yes, but you'd have to prick your finger several times, whereas with the Libre you only have to scan once.  Must be better,no?

I love the arrow, if it says you're 4.5 and stable or rising then you're fine, if it says you're dropping then get the jelly babies out.  You wouldn't know that from one finger prick.

Yes it is a tad annoying that it only reads down to 2.2 before it gives up counting, you were definitely hypo when it said that though weren't you (even if you weren't feeling it) so it wasn't exactly lying!

We generally find that ours reads a bit low (up to 2mmol different) but if it's consistent then you can work with it, blood tests aren't 100% accurate either.  If it says you are in the 3s you might not be hypo but if it says 2s or LO then you probably are!

And you are right that you can scan as many times as you like without using up any resources so that's a great advantage.  Glad that your first impressions are generally positive, hopefully in a day or two you'll be able to trust it enough to save a few finger pricks too 

(I don't think it completely removes the need for finger pricks, worth checking at least once or twice a day that the sensor is accurate enough, but we've reduced our test strip usage by about half)


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## everydayupsanddowns (Apr 16, 2016)

You may find the sensor takes a little while longer to settle in, and that after a while (when BGs are stable) any difference between the devices is minimised. But of course the two items are reading different fluids and interpreting/manipulating the data to approximate plasma glucose values (whole blood to plasma... and interstitial fluid via delay minimising algorithm into plasma) so differences are almost inevitable.

My experience is that most sensors read mostly 0.5-1 out most of the time (more likely 2 out at higher levels) so the data are almost always very useful.


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 16, 2016)

Sally71 said:


> I love the way you review!
> 
> You say that you could tell whether rising or falling with a normal meter by doing several tests; well yes, but you'd have to prick your finger several times, whereas with the Libre you only have to scan once.  Must be better,no?
> 
> ...





I know that you absolutely love these things because you said so in the previous thread when I was asking about them. I am only offering an insight as to how I find them to get on with as a purely new user on a first time basis. Yes of course you need to prick your finger for a standard blood test and you don't have to with the Libre. Standard blood tests for type 1 diabetics are free of charge. You have to buy Libre sensors. This would have been a very negative point  to make about the Libre but I felt it would have been very unfair to raise it since it has absolutely no bearing on how I find it performs. I also  didn't raise this point because I didn't feel it had any relevance to a first time user review. I have tried to be as objective as I can be. I hope you can appreciate this.


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## AndBreathe (Apr 16, 2016)

I'm am assuming you go to the bathroom to test at nighttime, for the light and not to disturb your partner.  When I first started on my manic scanning journey with the Libre (beware the addiction potential of scanning!), the bleep would rouse my OH.  Switching the bleep off and the vibration on improved entente cordiale no end.


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## Copepod (Apr 16, 2016)

Knowing the challenges of giving tablets to cats, if you can do that, dealing with Libre should be a breeze!


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## pav (Apr 16, 2016)

Found my Libre read 2 to 3 below my normal meter, Abbott replaced the first one, but I did not bother ringing them with the second as it was reading lower as well. I was using the Libre to get the the pattern of my levels, which was like the Himalayas, then on other days was reasonable like a flat line.

When you put the next sensor on, you may find it better to leave it on your arm for 24 to 48 hours before activating it, as from others that way the sensor is more reliable from the offset rather than being a bit unpredictable for the first couple of days.

Also if you have a bleeder, blood coming from the centre hole, these are more accurate than those that don't bleed.


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 17, 2016)

26 hours in and no real adverse issues. Readings are at odds with my Accuchek Mobile device anywhere between 0.5mmols and 6 mmols at the opposite extremes. Sensor does not feel in any way uncomfortable to wear. Driving to and from Penrith this morning and early evening, a round trip for me of approximately 220 miles I found glucose tests an absolute breeze to very quickly undertake. It's just the accuracy that gives me some concerns.


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## robert@fm (Apr 17, 2016)

Copepod said:


> Knowing the challenges of giving tablets to cats, if you can do that, dealing with Libre should be a breeze!


How to give a cat a pill.


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 17, 2016)

I am now approximately 43 hours into this device and have a couple of extra observations. I had lost a big chunk, of battery, no doubt due to the fact that I am using the meter a hell of a lot. I am not therefore saying that the battery life is poor just that I have used a lot of battery life. There is a strong possibility of dozey  user error here but I am unable to determine from the display just when the battery is fully charged and the charging instructions are a little vague. Another point which up to now had missed me is the fact that before using this device I was getting XXX number of cassettes on prescription and buying another 2 cassettes (100 tests). Sorry, the cassettes are AccuChek Mobile. If I spend the extra £13.00 per month and buy one sensor per month which equals 2 weeks unlimited blood testing then I never, ever run the risk of running out of glucose tests in any calendar month. For me this is a whopping advantage. I am also starting to trust the device a little bit more and am doing far less finger prick blood tests. There are still fluctuations in the results between a reading from the Libre and an actual blood test and there doesn't appear to be a constant so that is a little bit tiresome.  My next project is to speak to my doctor and attempt to bring him on side with a view to providing me with 2 sensors per month and 1 AccuChek Mobile test cassette. This makes economic sense as it works out cheaper than the current cost of my monthly cassette usage. All it takes to rain on my proverbial bonfire is for some jobsworth PCT interfering busybody to say IT'S MORE THANK MY JOBS WORTH. This is going to make an interesting summer scheme.


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## SB2015 (Apr 17, 2016)

Hi Diabeticliberty, I look forward to hearing whether you manage to get your GP to fund these as they are not yet on the approved list for prescriptions.  You migh have more luck with a DSN having spare sensors.

I have just got back from a walk with friends.  Having done a test on My Accu Chek before setting out and set my usual TBR, it was great to be able to use the Libre to pick up patterns and see when those dark chocolate cranberries were really needed ( I know it would have been better to have used my usual jelly babies but these were in my bag!!  It saved me stopping and getting out the tst kit, borrowing a hand to rest it on or finding a suitable surface.  So much easier and all I did was one Accu Chek test during the walk (in order to tell the pump to correct after rather more cranberries than I actually needed).

I have readings a lot closer this time and they are only out by less than 0.5 when I am in range, but go a bit wider when above 10 (I know I shouldn't have been there and have already owned up to why!).  The secret for me is good hydration and the sensor further back on my arm.


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## trophywench (Apr 17, 2016)

You'll have to get Libre sensors licensed for prescription - nothing to do with any doctor and defo no PCT cos firstly there's no such thing any more, local healthcare is overseen by CCGs - and it's nowt to do with them either!  It's the NHS/Dept of Heath who agree to such things, centrally.

Try Jeremy Hunt.  Not that he has any influence!  LOL

The time might be better spent banging your head on a wall LOL ......


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## Sally71 (Apr 17, 2016)

Glad you are still liking it!  Sorry if I have been banging on about loving ours a bit much, I guess it won't suit everybody. I haven't really considered the cost issue either, but it is a bit of a disadvantage, especially if you'd love one but can't afford it.

Also, I don't know if you are aware but I don't think the DVLA will accept sensor readings when you are driving, it has to be finger pricks  
Which is another negative point unless someone can persuade them to revise their rules!


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 17, 2016)

The last time I went to war with them on this subject it was a PCT head pharmacist who was supposedly sticking the knife in my ribs. Since then we have left each other alone. I've not had a good punch up with them for a few years now. I hope they haven't forgotten me. In fairness I hold absolute zero confidence in getting past the rotweillers on the front desk at my new GP's surgery. It will be amusing if nothing else to see their reaction.

Watch this space!!!!!!!!!


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 17, 2016)

Sally71 said:


> Glad you are still liking it!  Sorry if I have been banging on about loving ours a bit much, I guess it won't suit everybody. I haven't really considered the cost issue either, but it is a bit of a disadvantage, especially if you'd love one but can't afford it.
> 
> Also, I don't know if you are aware but I don't think the DVLA will accept sensor readings when you are driving, it has to be finger pricks
> Which is another negative point unless someone can persuade them to revise their rules!




This is not a problem at all to me. If you have something in which you firmly believe then all credit to you for speaking up for it. It is a result of people like you speaking about it  I go and buy one. As regards Swansea they have never thus far requested meter readings from me. The medical form asks if I am able to provide 3 months worth of blood test results if required and I answer yes. They have never actually asked to see them. No doubt I am probably poking fate with a big pointy stick and next time around they will be crawling all over me like measles.


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## Robin (Apr 17, 2016)

Diabeticliberty said:


> This is not a problem at all to me. If you have something in which you firmly believe then all credit to you for speaking up for it. It is a result of people like you speaking about it  I go and buy one. As regards Swansea they have never thus far requested meter readings from me. The medical form asks if I am able to provide 3 months worth of blood test results if required and I answer yes. They have never actually asked to see them. No doubt I am probably poking fate with a big pointy stick and next time around they will be crawling all over me like measles.


I think the problem with tests that satisfy the DVLA requirements, is if you're stopped by the police for any reason, not whether the DVLA require them for their records. Now, in the normal course of events if you had a run in with the constabulary, it's unlikely they'd ever discover you were diabetic, unless you were blatantly hypo, but just in case they did, they are entitled to see your meter with its last reading to check if it was within the required two hours, and it was high enough. So you still need to do normal meter checks when driving, until the day when the Libre is legally accepted as evidence.


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 17, 2016)

Robin said:


> I think the problem with tests that satisfy the DVLA requirements, is if you're stopped by the police for any reason, not whether the DVLA require them for their records. Now, in the normal course of events if you had a run in with the constabulary, it's unlikely they'd ever discover you were diabetic, unless you were blatantly hypo, but just in case they did, they are entitled to see your meter with its last reading to check if it was within the required two hours, and it was high enough. So you still need to do normal meter checks when driving, until the day when the Libre is legally accepted as evidence.




Interesting, very very interesting indeed. I thought I knew all of the stuff regarding these kind of issues. Clearly I do not. I mentioned earlier in another posting regarding an accident I had while having a hypo on a motorway. The copper was really decent and was in no way dogmatic. He even came to see me on his day off to make sure I was ok. I thought that was a wonderful thing to do. Swansea did come down quite hard on me. I think if the police had chosen to take a hard line also then there was a pretty strong chance I wouldn't have ever got my licence back. 



Thanks again for your posting. I was unaware of the potential complications that trying to adopt the new device 'wholesale' might bring. The problem I now have is I am really starting to quite like it. I will work a compromise


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## Sally71 (Apr 17, 2016)

Robin said:


> I think the problem with tests that satisfy the DVLA requirements, is if you're stopped by the police for any reason, not whether the DVLA require them for their records. Now, in the normal course of events if you had a run in with the constabulary, it's unlikely they'd ever discover you were diabetic, unless you were blatantly hypo, but just in case they did, they are entitled to see your meter with its last reading to check if it was within the required two hours, and it was high enough. So you still need to do normal meter checks when driving, until the day when the Libre is legally accepted as evidence.


Yes that's what I meant - thanks for clarifying


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## AndBreathe (Apr 17, 2016)

In this day and age, I think if you have a prang, you may find your insurance forms ask if you suffer from any medical conditions.  If at the point you are unable to prove, by a meter reading, if asked, that you were 5 to drive and DVLA compliant, I think you may find yourself uninsured.  

Please be very careful. At the point of claim isn't the time to learn the nuances of your insurer's forms, views or defensiveness at the point of claim.


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 17, 2016)

I think that the insurance companies have got to tread very carefully on this one. My understanding is that some years ago they all received a bit of a reprimand from the European Parliament on such issues. I think that now they must consult your doctor and before they can do this have your sanction to do so. When I first got diagnosed it was suggested to me that they would charge a premium because of my condition. This was challenged and all of the associated legislation followed through dictating that insurance companies could not  treat us as bad eggs. They could not even ask if we were soft boiled or scrambled. Sorry I was going to try and crack a funny about omelette but it would have been a terrible yolk, whooos sorry, joke


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## AndBreathe (Apr 18, 2016)

I'm not suggesting any impact on premium, but the question would be about legality to drive at the time of the incident.  Anyway, all I'm saying is it could be an expensive, if not embarrassing experience.  I wouldn't be risking it.

That said, it is very convenient to be able to just wave the reader in the proximity of the sensor whilst doing other things.


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 18, 2016)

AndBreathe said:


> I'm not suggesting any impact on premium, but the question would be about legality to drive at the time of the incident.  Anyway, all I'm saying is it could be an expensive, if not embarrassing experience.  I wouldn't be risking it.
> 
> That said, it is very convenient to be able to just wave the reader in the proximity of the sensor whilst doing other things.





I really believe that no matter how strong we feel our condition management is there is also an element of pure good or bad luck. I have had a couple of prangs in the distant past and was lucky I suppose that nobody really nit picked. Having said this on both occasions there were no other parties involved. With the exception of the police of course. Very lucky indeed. Had I crashed into some other poor unsuspecting individuals I would of course be putting otherpeople in jeopardy and very much  doubt whether I would bring myself to drive again without the added implications that DVLA and insurance companies throw into the mix. These incidents were however a very long time ago when for some obscure reason that I cannot fathom I felt it 'uncool' to carry Lucozade or something in the car with me. Yes I know, bloody ridiculous statement but that's how young fellers seem to think sometimes


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 18, 2016)

I have now been using the thing for approximately 60 hours. It has become extremely comfortable to wear and to be perfectly honest I no longer notice that I have it on my arm. Could I wear them for the rest of my life? Hmmm......yeah I think I could quite easily. I cannot stress strongly enough the benefit, at least to me of unlimited testing for 2 weeks per sensor. The other thing is when I watched a video clip on the Abbott Website with an old geezer doing a standard 'blood test' and looking all rather indignant with the rigmarole I thought it was just a big pile of steaming hype to 'big up' their own devices. The fact is though that when I now do my own finger prick blood tests I suspect that I am using the same facial expressions as the chap in the video as the finger prick tests are certainly more laborious. I am resigned to the fact that the accuracy may not be as on cue as with my Accuchek once again though without a control test who is to suggest that the Accuchek is any more accurate than the Libre. I will muddle through this one for a few weeks and if it eventually becomes an issue I cannot deal with then I will bin the Libre. I don't see this happening however. Following on from my post yesterday I did contemplate speaking to my GP and try to bring him onside regarding Libre's. A long hard think about this and some really good advice from some of you and this is perhaps not the way to go for now. I spoke to Roche this morning as I have yet another faulty Accuchek meter which they are replacing and sending me 2 cassettes (100 tests). This perhaps because they can detect from my tone of voice that I am kinda losing patience with their devices. This will go with the other 7 that I have. Yes that's right, 7 of them.


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## SB2015 (Apr 18, 2016)

Thanks for your update Diabeticliberty.  I vaguely remember you questioning the info about the battery level, but tracked back and could not find the comment.  However just in case I have missed it somewhere, I checked on mine and it showed in the top at the centre when it showed me the reading and direction of travel of my readings.  After that I did not find it on other screens.

I have not spotted on this time round where it shows the estimated HbA1c.  I know I had it last time.  Perhaps it is only on printouts.  Just tried a pizza with extended bolus to see what would happen.  Shan't do that again after seeing the patterns.  Good seeing this without loads of tests.

I look forward to the next news bulletin.


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## SB2015 (Apr 18, 2016)

Ps. Accu Chek meters.  I don't think I have had quite as many as you but I have gone through a fair few.  They told me there was a dodgy batch and I think I must have had a few of them!!  Now on the pump and still had at least one replacement a year.


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 18, 2016)

SB2015 said:


> Thanks for your update Diabeticliberty.  I vaguely remember you questioning the info about the battery level, but tracked back and could not find the comment.  However just in case I have missed it somewhere, I checked on mine and it showed in the top at the centre when it showed me the reading and direction of travel of my readings.  After that I did not find it on other screens.
> 
> I have not spotted on this time round where it shows the estimated HbA1c.  I know I had it last time.  Perhaps it is only on printouts.  Just tried a pizza with extended bolus to see what would happen.  Shan't do that again after seeing the patterns.  Good seeing this without loads of tests.
> 
> I look forward to the next news bulletin.




Typically I have made an explanation in a rather clumsy fashion for which I must apologise. My issue with the battery indicator is that when on charge there is nothing suggesting when the battery is fully charged so for me at least there is an element of guesswork. Perhaps not a major issue for some users but it still warrants noting as I am attempting to record all of my experiences with it. Tomorrow will be management software download. No doubt that will be filled with fun and frolicking or maybe just me wittering on about a load of old toffee

Regarding the AccuChek meters I seem to go through one every 6 weeks. They do get treated a bit harshly however in fairness to them. They are dragged around dirty engineering factories all week and are usually stuck in my wader pocket in a river all weekend.


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## SB2015 (Apr 19, 2016)

I was amazed how easy the software was and how informative the different reports are.
Let us know how it goes.


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## DeusXM (Apr 19, 2016)

> Following on from my post yesterday I did contemplate speaking to my GP and try to bring him onside regarding Libre's. A long hard think about this and some really good advice from some of you and this is perhaps not the way to go for now.



Here's what I'd recommend, which is what I'm doing with my care team at the moment.

I'm playing mind games with them.

I got my last A1C (and indeed, full bloods) done shortly before starting to use the Libre to track my blood sugar.

My intention is to get it done again soon, where it is likely to be much lower. It's at that point that I'll do the 'big reveal'. Obviously it's not going to change anything in the immediate future but my feeling is that if enough people can report in significant improvements in their control, our care teams are going to notice and start discussing this stuff. It's a slow burn but at the end of it, the NICE decision will be taken on a cost-benefit ratio and the more professionals who can supply even anecdotal evidence of the benefits could help us to win the long-term cost argument.

It does backfire though. I did a similar thing when I modified my diet to have fewer carbs and much more fat. My cholesterol (and indeed, my A1C), improved, and when I explained what I'd done to my GP, we had this awkward impasse where he was telling me that I was eating badly and increasing my risk of heart disease and I was asking him how that could be, given my numbers had improved significantly. I think I ended up on the 'difficult' register, because since then I've found I've had to manually book myself in for regular appointments instead of getting reminders.


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 19, 2016)

Oh my giddy aunt. Today I am off work after a couple of extremely aggressive hypo's in the early hours of this morning. My boss has insisted that I stay at home and get some kip, bless him!!!!!! These are rather uncharacteristic with my management regime. The Libre has no real bearing on this. I did wake up and test through the night and the Libre came up  with a reading too low to record which I ignored due to the fluctuations that I have been getting between it and my AccuChek.  I shall not be repeating the turn over and go back to sleep thing again, believe you me. To rub salt into this proverbial open wound the meters now appear to be producing more comparable results for the last 24 hours. The greatest deviation between the 2 had only been 2mmols. The average is 0.4mmols. I really should have acted on those results early this morning I hear you all say. Well at least now when I insist that I am stupid you no longer have to take it on trust. I have noticed that the sticky bit of the sensor pad is starting to become unstuck a little bit. This is a touch disappointing. 

At some point today when I don't feel quite so fried I am gonna download the software from the Abbott Website and then I can see what the thing really can do for me.


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## Robin (Apr 19, 2016)

. I have noticed that the sticky bit of the sensor pad is starting to become unstuck a little bit. This is a touch disappointing.

At some point today when I don't feel quite so fried I am gonna download the software from the Abbott Website and then I can see what the thing really can do for me.[/QUOTE]

There does seem to be a lot of variation in the 'stickability' of different people's skin. I always tape a bit of micropore over the sensor as a belt and braces thing, but whenever I come to remove one, It takes me ages prising the thing off. There are various other products people use, like Tegaderm, or skintac under the sensor before you stick it on, which seem to help.
Glad you're finding it useful, and good luck with the downloads. I find it most helpful to get a print out after a week, when it starts spotting trends etc.


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## Northerner (Apr 19, 2016)

Very sorry to hear about the hypos - any idea what might have caused them?


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 19, 2016)

Northerner said:


> Very sorry to hear about the hypos - any idea what might have caused them?




Sorry Alan, I've only just picked up on your post. I suspect it is an accumulation of things really. I have of late noticed a few blips through the night where I am starting to run a touch higher than I am comfortable with. I have over the period of 4 or 5 days increased my evening dose of Isophane  (slow acting) by 2 units per day and monitored the results. I guess last night or this morning I have reached the point where by I have broken the cycle of increased night time blood sugars.  Combine this with the fact that the Libre was saying "You are going hypo, you silly bugger" which I glibly chose to ignore because of course I know better and the end result has me sat on my rear end this morning on the bedroom floor looking for spaceships on my Spiderman pyjamas. Oh how I laughed - NOT!!!!!!! I periodically overtinker with changing stuff as I love to see what the net effect is. In hindsight this might be a good idea in principle but a rather crap one in practice.


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## HOBIE (Apr 19, 2016)

I think the Libre is good ! Ideal for certain things.  Holiday trips etc


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## AndBreathe (Apr 19, 2016)

@Diabeticliberty - When you download the Abbott software, download your reader data too.  That gives you your 15 minute "silent readings" throughout the 24 hour cycle.  The graphs are nice to look at and can themselves be very informative, but the raw data really is of more interest to me.

I tend to put it into Excel and filter and manipulate it, depending on what I want to look for.


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## SB2015 (Apr 19, 2016)

Oops.  I hope that you have had a bit of a rest and managed to download the software.

Just a thought about your previous unexpected highs overnight, I wonder whether you were in fact reading a rebound in the morning after a night hypo, which without the Libre you had not picked up.  I have had differences between two meters, both ways at the bottom end.  So if feeling low or reading low I check and treat as necessary.  Easy during the day but with hypo brain in action things are not so logical in the night!!

I stuck Micropore over my first sensor and then found it incredibly difficult to get off.  This one is just stuck on and so good so far.  As had been said we will have different stickiness, but you won't want to waist any of the days on which the sensor works.


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## SB2015 (Apr 19, 2016)

DeusXM said:


> My intention is to get it done again soon, where it is likely to be much lower. It's at that point that I'll do the 'big reveal'. Obviously it's not going to change anything in the immediate future but my feeling is that if enough people can report in significant improvements in their control, our care teams are going to notice and start discussing this stuff. It's a slow burn but at the end of it, the NICE decision will be taken on a cost-benefit ratio and the more professionals who can supply even anecdotal evidence of the benefits could help us to win the long-term cost argument.



A good plan and perhaps if they receive a lot of data from all over the place there might be some response.  Either way it cannot harm.  I shall do the same.


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 20, 2016)

Another gripping episode in the Libre Saga. I am now some 106 hours in and had intended downloading the management software from the Abbott Website last night. I didn't actually get around to this as a piano lesson and then some practice got in the way. I am downloading it as my next task but have rather stupidly left the data / charging cable plugged into the kitchen socket at home. The charging status indicator is really bugging me as I have already suggested. On a more positive note the sensor sticky pad which had started to unglue itself from my arm,after a bit of gently prodding and poking with my finger now appears to be firmly attached again. All tests compared to my new replacement Accuchek Mobile appear to be within 0.5mmols of each other. On that subject, the replacement Accuchek arrived at 11.30am yesterday morning and after only approximately a dozen tests, late last night it gave me the immortal 'CASSETTE DEFFECTIVE INSERT NEW CASSETTE' error code This is the reason the previous one is being returned. While this silliness does not serve to push me closer to the Libre it certainly does nothing to weaken my thinking that the Libre might be the way to go for future usage. A prospect that I think I might be adopting having tried it and it does nothing to hinder my lifestyle. Certainly no more than those dog rough Accuchek's do. The cost of the sensors will no doubt be prohibitive from a lot of potential users of this meter. I don't relish the prospect of paying a hundred quid per month myself. The NHS do provide me almost enough Accuchek cassettes to last me a month but not quite enough. I am therefore already buying some cassettes. The hit therefore will not be quite so punitive. I still don't like the added potential expense but will probably stand it in any case. More later when I get home from work and interrogate the Libre with the software.


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## BigMalc (Apr 20, 2016)

Good posts Diabeticliberty, very informative.  I have started one of these libre things too, about 12hrs after you by coincidence.  I am also getting results typically 0.5 different to my accu-check mobile, though one this am was 2 out, with the libre being the lower, which is not normally the case, but at least it meant I didn't have to wait before driving as the libre said 3.9! 
I had it on for a 6.5m run yesterday and will be trying it at the gym tonight so will report back if a swim/sauna/spa session causes anything unusual.  I am not going to use it all the time as it is too expensive, but hopefully, at so far so good, it is useful for understanding more about when BG levels rise, and for me, how slow they then fall.
Cheers
Malc


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 20, 2016)

I legged it home earlier and have plugged in the device. I am faced with graphical statistics regarding my results and averages. My average glucose is 6.1mmols and I have 22% of my results above my upper target setting of 8.5mmols and 32% below my lower target of 4mmols. These are nicely topped off with 16 low glucose events. I suspect that this will not please all of you but I feel that these figures do not give me data that I do not currently calculate manually with a plain old spread sheet. Having said this it is quite nice to have a program to save me all of the leg work. It really isn't something though that a bit of plain old mathematics won't offer you. In addition there are a very large number of predictions which suggest that my blood glucose is very low...........hmmmmmm I think I can work that for myself. I think one of you suggested that the device will guess a hbA1c. I have thus far been unable to locate this facility.



My fairly useless conclusion is then that it is a really user friendly device. It has a few annoying little traits but no more or less than the countless other manufacturers blood test devices I have used in the last 30 odd years. The one that sticks out for me is the battery charging display which although only a minor point really irritates me still. This morning I had a couple of readings which offered 'Sensor fault, please retry in 10 minutes'. I thought at the point the whole thing was gonna give up but consequential tests were good and proved extremely close (within 0.5mmols) of my finger prick tests. I shall treat the matter as a minor blip as electronic devices are allowed a little 'me time' too. Testing while driving although many of you have been kind and gracious enough to tell me that the wicked Swansea and the Five O (police) will not accept works like an absolute dream. For my own purposes the tests are now close enough to finger prick tests to be close enough to drive with - I DO NOT RECOMMEND OR CONDONE USING THIS DEVICE WHILE DRIVING. The fact is though I have done and will continue to do so as it so damned easy and extremely quick to use. I will say again for me at least, the results are good enough to trust myself not to put my vehicle in the Manchester Ship Canal. Fumbling around in the pitch dark at 2.30am in a morning to do a test because you are rather too comatose to trip to the bathroom and do a finger prick test which requires light is a massive winner for me. The device is very strongly backlit and you cannot fail with very fast test routine. The cost of sensors is of course a bit of a three legged dog. The NHS will in some cases not even supply some of us with basis test strips. They appear to be working on the strange thinking of 'let them eat cake' quite literally. I don't then see a point in future when they will openly prescribe us all with fancy and expensive sensors. Regardless of the fact that I personally think the system is rather revolutionary. I hated writing that but having used the device now I feel that it is. The fact of the matter is then it is case of how full are your pockets? I have come around to idea this morning that I will buy 2 per month. This is not out of necessity since once again the NHS funds most of my cassettes. It is out of pure convenience and the system is extremely convenient to use. The chewed up pads on the fingers of my left hand absolutely love the device and are quite glad of a break from repeated random stabbings. I am at the stage whereby when I squeeze my finger to force a little bit more blood out then other previous lancet sites start to release some too. It is a bit like Gardeners World with a guest appearance by Quentin Tarantino . I suppose then that on this basis alone for me at least, it is a fairly sound investment. The software suite as deled above may do some fairly fancy stuff that I have not yet latched on to. I after all am a very slow latcher. I think that if you want to create a use for the information it offers if you look for long enough then you will find one if not more than one. For my thinking though if you interrogate any standard blood test meter with a bit of intuitive thinking you will come up with conclusions not in a different continent to the ones that the Libre Software will offer you.



For the purpose of this industrially cobbled together critique I am a 50 year old type 1 diabetic who has had the condition for 32 years with thus far, thank God no complications. I have up to now tried and binned  approximately 16 different types of blood test meter. My current device is an Accuchek Mobile. A device which I absolutely loathe but I have been saddled with by my GP. I had up to Friday last week never before used a Freestyle Libre and up to joining this forum which curiously I now regard as home approximately 10 days ago had never even heard of one. I therefore have no point to make or no axe to grind. I have offered completely biased findings which are skewed by my own lifestyle and rather cynical outlook on life. I have however given the most honest and straightforward opinions that I am able to offer. If anybody has questions then answers I give will be based purely on my personal experience of the device and software. There are other Libre users on the forum. I would strongly recommend seeking their advice also. Their experiences may be and more than likely will be far different to my own.



All the very best,
Geoff


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## DeusXM (Apr 20, 2016)

Mine are actually pretty identical to yours with much the same conclusions. Although I actually wish there was a way of turning down the backlight -  I tend to now pretty instinctively test whenever I wake up in the night now and the result is I usually get my blood sugar number burned on the back of my retinas for a few minutes!

The A1C prediction is actually at the top of the first page of the report on the 'snapshot' page but I get there's so much info on there that you might miss it. 

Just on your results...32% of results being 'under' your target sounds pretty high (if you see what I mean). That pretty much means you're spending a third of your day having hypos. I get the Libre is known to read a little lower than normal in some people but that does seem quite a lot. Hopefully though you'll be able to narrow down the causes and take action on these.

I'm intrigued as well to find out if anyone knows how a 'low glucose event' is defined. If my blood sugar is fluctuating up and down for two hours between 3.9 and 4.1 (as well it might), is every time it pops below 4.0 an individual 'event', or is the whole thing counted?


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 20, 2016)

DeusXM said:


> Mine are actually pretty identical to yours with much the same conclusions. Although I actually wish there was a way of turning down the backlight -  I tend to now pretty instinctively test whenever I wake up in the night now and the result is I usually get my blood sugar number burned on the back of my retinas for a few minutes!
> 
> The A1C prediction is actually at the top of the first page of the report on the 'snapshot' page but I get there's so much info on there that you might miss it.
> 
> ...





*OH BUGGER, OH BUGGER OH BUGGER!!!!!!!!!! 


*
First things first. I have just walked in from work and removed my work shirt and after a brief sting the sensor came away with the shirt. I now need to contact Abbott and try to get some sense out of them.  Their reply will determine whether I stay with their monitor or return to Prickland (seriously, no pun intended!!!!!!!)

As regards the 32% thing I am pretty ok with it. As I am sure you are aware from experience the highest bottom limit for your target blood glucose is 3.9mmols. At 3.9mmols I do not experience any hypoglycaemic symptoms so would not strictly class this point as being in any kind of significant danger. Obviously in line with DVLA regulations I would not attempt to drive. In an ideal world I would set my bottom limit lower than 3.9mmols which I suppose goes some way to experience, aiming the 32% below target range. 

Regarding the 'low glucose event'. I feel that diabetic blood glucose testing can be a bit of a dull affair and although this sounds acutely cynical perhaps Abbott are just trying to 'sex things up a bit' and make glucose testing appear like we are on the edge baby!!!! Sorry I lost it there for a while. I think that the low glucose thing is arrived at possibly as an amalgamation of an actual low glucose reading and some predictions based on how quickly you have arrived at it. The device and software seems to apply some fairly advanced techniques to some fairly basic principles in order to offer background information. I am of course only surmising. If I were building a machine I think it's where I would start. Abbott could however be using something infinitely more complex. 

I will advise what reaction I get regarding the sensor.


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 20, 2016)

Hola Whackamola, I have just fixed a new sensor to my arm and the monitor will not pair up with it. The monitor is saying 10 days remaining like some crazy mad thing from Logan's Run. I have tried offering the monitor up to the old sensor which is now on the chair arm and the monitor is displaying 'cannot read sensor too cold' and other wonderful error codes. OMG it's the end of the world as we know it!!!!!!!!!! 


Suggestions please anyone? Ones that don't involve screwdrivers being inserted into vital parts of my own anatomy if you would all be so gracious!!!!!!!!!


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 20, 2016)

Ahahahahahaaaaaahhh.........hold the phone. The monitor has now found the sensor and can be used in 60 minutes. That sorts that one. Abbott have just come back and promised a reply within 48 hours. All of my ducks are now quacking loudly in a row.

Anyone for gin?


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## SlowRunner (Apr 20, 2016)

It all sounds a bit stressful if I'm honest... I think my blood sugar would be scraping the ceiling by now


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## AndBreathe (Apr 21, 2016)

Diabeticliberty said:


> Ahahahahahaaaaaahhh.........hold the phone. The monitor has now found the sensor and can be used in 60 minutes. That sorts that one. Abbott have just come back and promised a reply within 48 hours. All of my ducks are now quacking loudly in a row.
> 
> Anyone for gin?



If I recall correctly, there are some reports and forecasts that are only available after something like 7 or 10 days of usage of the Libre, so it could be an idea to reappraise some of your feelings once you have a full data set and full reporting in place?  I must admit, I called them during my first one as I couldn't find anywhere to guide me of the initial, one-time-only time lag.


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 21, 2016)

SlowRunner said:


> It all sounds a bit stressful if I'm honest... I think my blood sugar would be scraping the ceiling by now




To be honest the posts I put on here after the sensor went down the inside of my shirt sleeve were actually meant to be tongue in cheek. It was only a failure of a metering system either through equipment error, user error or possibly a combination of both. I have lots of blood testing stuff so it wasn't really a major issue. I am actually really quite taken with the Libre though. if Abbott respond positively when they reply to my email then I will start using this system as my 'go to' monitoring device. If they respond in an awkward fashion at all then I'm afraid it goes in the bin.


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## Robin (Apr 21, 2016)

Diabeticliberty said:


> If they respond in an awkward fashion at all then I'm afraid it goes in the bin.


If they respond at all! I don't think they're always very good at replying to emails, and when I did get a response to mine it was 'please call us to discuss the problem' which I did, and they were then very helpful on the phone.


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## DeusXM (Apr 21, 2016)

> As regards the 32% thing I am pretty ok with it. As I am sure you are aware from experience the highest bottom limit for your target blood glucose is 3.9mmols. At 3.9mmols I do not experience any hypoglycaemic symptoms so would not strictly class this point as being in any kind of significant danger. Obviously in line with DVLA regulations I would not attempt to drive. In an ideal world I would set my bottom limit lower than 3.9mmols which I suppose goes some way to experience, aiming the 32% below target range.



Um....this REALLY worries me.

The more time you spend in 'hypoglycaemic' territory, the lower your hypo awareness will become. That's VERY dangerous. It leads to people being fully functional at very low blood sugars and then suddenly they pass out without warning. Don't confuse 'not having symptoms' with 'being ok'. Hypo unawareness is what kills people with diabetes quite suddenly.

Also, yes, we might be able to have a semantic/medical debate about whether 3.9 is 'really' a hypo. But the problem is, 32% of the time, you are LOWER than 3.9, and that's according to a system which has been noted to read lower on average than a standard meter. I would certainly not consider it to be an 'ideal world' where the bottom limit of good glucose control is something lower than 3.9 as you're suggesting. All of what you've stated above is exactly why doctors are so discouraging of people who want to achieve normal A1cs, because they believe we'd need loads of hypos to do it.

I don't mean to be discouraging but 32% of your day with low blood sugar is not healthy, no matter how fine you feel with it.

The final summary is actually, if 22% of your readings are high and 32% are low, then your blood sugar is only under control 46% of the time. Still, this is exactly what the Libre is for - for identifying where you're going wrong so you can start building plans to tackle it.


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 21, 2016)

Robin said:


> If they respond at all! I don't think they're always very good at replying to emails, and when I did get a response to mine it was 'please call us to discuss the problem' which I did, and they were then very helpful on the phone.




I just rang them and they are sending out a replacement


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## Robin (Apr 21, 2016)

DeusXM said:


> have a semantic/medical debate about whether 3.9 is 'really' a hypo. But the problem is, 32% of the time, you are LOWER than 3.9, and that's according to a system which has been noted to read lower on average than a standard meter.


Hang on while I get my brain into gear. If the system reads lower than you really are, then surely 3.9 is not a worry because you are actually higher. At night, my Libre reads quite a bit lower than my meter, (which Ive always gone by, and all of us do go by our meters, even though technically they aren't 100% accurate either), when it dips every time I roll over onto it. The Libre system won't let you set the parameters lower than 3.9 though, so I can't adjust it lower, so I get a red line for most of the night too, whereas if I wake up and test in my meter, I'm always 4.5-5.5 territory. So I tend to ignore the 'x% low glucose' warnings on my readouts. I think that's what Diabeticliberty means.


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 21, 2016)

DeusXM said:


> Um....this REALLY worries me.
> 
> The more time you spend in 'hypoglycaemic' territory, the lower your hypo awareness will become. That's VERY dangerous. It leads to people being fully functional at very low blood sugars and then suddenly they pass out without warning. Don't confuse 'not having symptoms' with 'being ok'. Hypo unawareness is what kills people with diabetes quite suddenly.
> 
> ...





I have had lengthy conversations with my previous and current GP regarding these matters. They both feel happy enough with my overall control and hbA1c results. I really am fully hypo aware. Whether you consider 32% of day with low blood sugar unhealthy it is unfortunately where I am with things. You must also bear in mind that the statistics that the meter has given me are from a short period of 3 days only. During any period of low blood sugar I am testing on a repeated basis before attempting to drive or anything else. If the monitoring software works as I think it does by making forward calculations of actual readings over a set period of time then I don't think it is a great leap that if you test in repeatedly when blood sugars are low then your overall average that the software is calculating will be manipulated downwards. Conversely if you are testing a lot when your blood sugars are higher then the software gives you an artificially high percentage. As a rule of thumb only it is when blood sugars are higher or lower that the majority of diabetics seem to test more. I do have doubts about this aspect of the software I was not going to start raising them yet however as I have only been using the device for 4 days and at least for me just yet it is too early to make rash comments. I am not even sure that I am correct about how the software works out the averages


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 21, 2016)

Robin said:


> Hang on while I get my brain into gear. If the system reads lower than you really are, then surely 3.9 is not a worry because you are actually higher. At night, my Libre reads quite a bit lower than my meter, (which Ive always gone by, and all of us do go by our meters, even though technically they aren't 100% accurate either), when it dips every time I roll over onto it. The Libre system won't let you set the parameters lower than 3.9 though, so I can't adjust it lower, so I get a red line for most of the night too, whereas if I wake up and test in my meter, I'm always 4.5-5.5 territory. So I tend to ignore the 'x% low glucose' warnings on my readouts. I think that's what Diabeticliberty means.



My Libre initially was reading lower than my Accuchek. I then had more faith in that device. The fact is now though that the Libre is reading sometimes higher and sometimes lower and there is zero consistency. I mentioned this earlier on in this thread. I can categorically tell anybody though that 'Low glucose' on my Libre is not a hypo


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## Sally71 (Apr 21, 2016)

We were at hospital yesterday and our medical team said they are finding the Libre to be more accurate than "proper" CGMs!
I have no personal experience of one of those though so can't really comment


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## SlowRunner (Apr 21, 2016)

I have to admit that I am tempted to buy one - I'm itching to know what my levels are like between tests (without losing my finger ends completely!). However... Will I become obsessed?! Also, I'm very impatient - if the slightest thing goes wrong I could end up just throwing it out of the window.... Hmmm, watching this thread with interest!


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## DeusXM (Apr 21, 2016)

> Hang on while I get my brain into gear. If the system reads lower than you really are, then surely 3.9 is not a worry because you are actually higher.



I really should have some more coffee before posting in the morning. You're absolutely right.


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## Sally71 (Apr 21, 2016)

Lol 


SlowRunner said:


> I have to admit that I am tempted to buy one - I'm itching to know what my levels are like between tests (without losing my finger ends completely!). However... Will I become obsessed?! Also, I'm very impatient - if the slightest thing goes wrong I could end up just throwing it out of the window.... Hmmm, watching this thread with interest!


lol - the obsession wears off after a few days!


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## Annette (Apr 21, 2016)

Sally71 said:


> the obsession wears off after a few days!


no it doesnt......nearly 5 months in and I'm still pretty obsessed with it...I tweak my basals on an almost weekly basis now because of it (ok, my basals change more than your 'average' diabetic (is there such a thing?), but still, I think I may be a little too obsessed at times...)


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 21, 2016)

In the last 2 hours my Libre is showing results which are supposedly too low for it to read. My Accuchek is showing my blood glucose levels varying between 4.5mmols and 7.00mmols. The accuracy fluctuations are still something of a concern to me. Having said this I changed sensors at 6.00pm last night when the previous one fell off my arm. I will therefore wait a while before poo pooing the results that it is offering me.


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## AndBreathe (Apr 21, 2016)

Diabeticliberty said:


> In the last 2 hours my Libre is showing results which are supposedly too low for it to read. My Accuchek is showing my blood glucose levels varying between 4.5mmols and 7.00mmols. The accuracy fluctuations are still something of a concern to me. Having said this I changed sensors at 6.00pm last night when the previous one fell off my arm. I will therefore wait a while before poo pooing the results that it is offering me.



How long did you wait between applying the sensor and activating it?


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 21, 2016)

AndBreathe said:


> How long did you wait between applying the sensor and activating it?




I did not wait between applying the sensor and activating it. Having said that I didn't wait with the first sensor either. I am not suggesting that the instruction manual does not suggest waiting between applying and activating. I cannot personally find it in the instructions however.

I do not wish to pour scorn on anybody else's management regime. We are all to varying degrees responsible for the greatest chunk of our own good management. I have however now personally experienced situations whereby I didn't feel from experience that the results being offered by the device might be all that accurate. I think I might strongly question the thinking that I would start to change carbohydrate or insulin intake based on predictions made by a device and accompanying software which is arriving at its conclusions from at best somewhat questionable data and at worst data that is just plainly wrong. I do like the device and the package that comes with it. It is a thousand miles ahead of anything else I have ever seen or used. Up to last night I was all for adopting the thing wholesale. Now I am not so sure. A post by DeuxFM earlier on kind of woke me up to it. The readings and predictions all be it on only a 3 day average were suggesting my control was a little bit iffy. Did I not have the wherewithal to go through recorded results from my other blood tester and make comparisons I might now have a loaded revolver at my temple as the meter tells me my control is all a bit rubbish. My own spread sheet analysis however tells a wholly different story. Do I believe either? Do I believe none? Do I believe them both? You can of course make statistics say whatever you want them to. The data that forms the statistics for you however must be correct or why even bother?


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## Annette (Apr 21, 2016)

Diabeticliberty said:


> I cannot personally find it in the instructions however.


That's cos its not in the instructions. It is, however, on many people's posts on here, and elsewhere, that they have found it to be more accurate quicker if you put it on, let it bed in for a while (from a few hours to 2 days) then activate it.


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## AndBreathe (Apr 21, 2016)

Diabeticliberty said:


> I did not wait between applying the sensor and activating it. Having said that I didn't wait with the first sensor either. I am not suggesting that the instruction manual does not suggest waiting between applying and activating. I cannot personally find it in the instructions however.
> 
> I do not wish to pour scorn on anybody else's management regime. We are all to varying degrees responsible for the greatest chunk of our own good management. I have however now personally experienced situations whereby I didn't feel from experience that the results being offered by the device might be all that accurate. I think I might strongly question the thinking that I would start to change carbohydrate or insulin intake based on predictions made by a device and accompanying software which is arriving at its conclusions from at best somewhat questionable data and at worst data that is just plainly wrong. I do like the device and the package that comes with it. It is a thousand miles ahead of anything else I have ever seen or used. Up to last night I was all for adopting the thing wholesale. Now I am not so sure. A post by DeuxFM earlier on kind of woke me up to it. The readings and predictions all be it on only a 3 day average were suggesting my control was a little bit iffy. Did I not have the wherewithal to go through recorded results from my other blood tester and make comparisons I might now have a loaded revolver at my temple as the meter tells me my control is all a bit rubbish. My own spread sheet analysis however tells a wholly different story. Do I believe either? Do I believe none? Do I believe them both? You can of course make statistics say whatever you want them to. The data that forms the statistics for you however must be correct or why even bother?



There is no start deferral guidance from Abbott, but on another forum I use there are a large number of Libre users; many from Day 1 and including a few people who were trialists pre-launch.  Most now defer activation to a degree, but the span of minutes, or hours varied by the individual.  

For the last couple I used, I tried the full 48 hours, as suggested by one particular poster whose Consultant is T1 herself, and was a trialist.  Apparently there was some consensus amongst some of the trialists that sensors performed better (i.e. more closely aligned to finger prick tests) if left 48 hours between application and activating.  The hypothesis is that in some people, they have a "reaction" to the foreign body introduced on insertion, and their body tries to get rid of it, until it gets used the the idea and accepts the filament is benign.  As someone who has massive rejection issues with splinters and the like (including sutures, which is annoying!), I am working through this in my own mind.

As I am currently overseas and living a bit differently to when I have worn the balance of my sensors, I wouldn't like to comment too robustly myself, except to say that for the one I did activate after 48 hours, it was extremely accurate, then expired early.  Abbott have dealth with that issue to my satisfaction.

I have a couple of sensors unopened still and just over 4 weeks remaining here, so haven't quite decided if I'll use another before I come home, or indeed spanning my long haul journey.  In either case, I will use one pretty much immediately I get back to ensure I am settling back into my UK routines as I hope I will.

It's an interesting gizmo for sure, but not the perfect panacea we would all love it to be, but undoubtedly, it fills in a few gaps in the jigsaw that is diabetes.


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 21, 2016)

Annette Anderson said:


> That's cos its not in the instructions. It is, however, on many people's posts on here, and elsewhere, that they have found it to be more accurate quicker if you put it on, let it bed in for a while (from a few hours to 2 days) then activate it.









I have said earlier that I am aware that the device and accompanying software system has its strong supporters and I do not have any issue with that. I also have read that the sensor becomes more accurate if left implanted for a while before activating it. A number of forum users were kind enough to inform me. The issue is that is rather non specific. You suggest 'a few hours to 2 days'. At which point then do my readings become of value to me and at which point do I act upon what they are telling me? With respect my initial response to a new device is usually to follow the manufacturers instructions. I am not anti Libre by any stretch. I shelled out a hundred and thirty odd quid for one only last week. I have detailed my personal findings with my device including some of the rather personal data that it has recorded. I did not act on this data but I might well have done so. This could have potentially turned what I feel is a perfectly acceptable blood sugar level to be running at to become a good degree higher because my Libre told me I was hypoglycaemic. I am personally crying out for, as are the fingers on my left hand a system such as this but one that offers consistent realistic results. I am personally nowhere near ready to start changing my medication dosage or carbohydrate intake on the results from a device which I don't feel anybody can truly argue are not consistently inconsistent.


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## Annette (Apr 21, 2016)

Diabeticliberty said:


> At which point then do my readings become of value to me and at which point do I act upon what they are telling me?


That, I would suggest, is an individual situation. What works for me might well not work for you. I have gone through trial and error to work out what works for me, when I am prepared to trust it and when not. I also followed the manufacturer's instructions, for the first sensor. I then started to tweak what I did and how I used it, so that I could get the most out of it. I do not use it for bolus data or correction data, but as an indication that I should check with my meter (which I do trust implicitly). Not all sensors (or, perhaps more likely, not all insertion sites) are equal - so I have some sensors that work fantastically from the get go, and others, like the one I have on now, that are wafty at best (but not so bad I would try and get another one). I have accepted that, and treat the libre readings accordingly. 
This particular device will not, (IMHO) ever, fully replace fingerpricks. Others in the future might. It is up to you whether you want to continue using yours, given that it isnt perfect (in many ways).


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 21, 2016)

Annette Anderson said:


> This particular device will not, (IMHO) ever, fully replace fingerpricks




BUT I WANT IT TO. 



There was a point before my sensor fell off my arm last night where the sensor appeared to be running kind of in sync with my Accuchek and at that point I thought that I had discovered gold. Sadly the sensor results then started wobbling around again. I am trying to get to a point with it whereby I know I can trust what its telling me. Up to now it feels like pure guesswork.


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## Annette (Apr 21, 2016)

And I want a fully functioning pancreas again. But I'm not going to get that, either...


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 21, 2016)

Annette Anderson said:


> And I want a fully functioning pancreas again. But I'm not going to get that, either...




No you don't want one. You want two don't forget one for me as well


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## Annette (Apr 21, 2016)

I'll make a list, anyone else? Should I ever find a supplier, I'll order them in bulk


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## BigMalc (Apr 21, 2016)

Two points from me at this stage, being 4 days in to Libre now.  Firstly, 20 min swim and 7 mins in sauna were no problem for it, no apparent skipped readings etc, so that is good (couldn't do the spa as it was full!).

Secondly, in terms of regime change I would want to see pretty much the full two weeks of results before deciding anything as we all know that a cold, stress, anger etc can affect BGs for a few hours to a few days, so nothing short term only should impact upon long term decisions.  My main interest is seeing the pattern of BG over the course of the day as I seem to be experiencing pretty reasonable results for the first hour or so after food, but then BG goes up for 2-3hrs.  My DSN previously said not to worry about interim testing so when I go for my annual review in a few weeks, I will at least have some info to share and talk about.

On the delay front, it does seem from my only experience that it can take a day or so to settle down, either that or my control has just been a lot better in the last 48hrs compared to the first!


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## Robin (Apr 21, 2016)

Annette Anderson said:


> I'll make a list, anyone else? Should I ever find a supplier, I'll order them in bulk


Count me in, we should be able to negotiate a discount. New or used, though?


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## Annette (Apr 21, 2016)

Robin said:


> Count me in, we should be able to negotiate a discount. New or used, though?


I'll take reconditioned, if available...


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 22, 2016)

I am now 38 hours into my second sensor and while the results it is offering have moved closer to the results from my finger prick meter (as close as 0.5mmols in some instances) there are still sudden and unexpected wobbles with differentials of up to 6 mmols. My difficulty is that these do not appear to follow any pattern and if adopting the meter as I had hoped to cast some degree of doubt for me as to the overall results from the meter. I have heard suggestions of changing carbohydrate and medicinal intake on the basis of the results that the system offers. That really would not be for me. I have tried suggesting that the information that the software provides based on flawed data can in in essence be a bit useless. You can arrive at this information with a standard finger prick blood test meter and a simple bit of Excel spread sheet data. These results are, please believe me far more trustworthy. It has been pointed out to me that this of course requires far more finger prick testing. This is of course absolutely true but without data to input Excel will not work. I have strived to articulate my personal opinion that the Libre is an absolutely wonderful concept. I think if it were more reliable I might even suggest ground breaking. The fact is though, at least for me it offers some fairly unpredictable and unreliable results. I am thus far very much unwilling to change my management routine on the basis of untrustworthy results. to those of you who do I wish good fortune. I think you are all a damned sight braver than I. A common line that I have had quoted to me is 'Well, these things don't suit everybody'. I run the risk of appearing naïve but I feel that they really should


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## AndBreathe (Apr 22, 2016)

Diabeticliberty said:


> I am now 38 hours into my second sensor and while the results it is offering have moved closer to the results from my finger prick meter (as close as 0.5mmols in some instances) there are still sudden and unexpected wobbles with differentials of up to 6 mmols. My difficulty is that these do not appear to follow any pattern and if adopting the meter as I had hoped to cast some degree of doubt for me as to the overall results from the meter. I have heard suggestions of changing carbohydrate and medicinal intake on the basis of the results that the system offers. That really would not be for me. I have tried suggesting that the information that the software provides based on flawed data can in in essence be a bit useless. You can arrive at this information with a standard finger prick blood test meter and a simple bit of Excel spread sheet data. These results are, please believe me far more trustworthy. It has been pointed out to me that this of course requires far more finger prick testing. This is of course absolutely true but without data to input Excel will not work. I have strived to articulate my personal opinion that the Libre is an absolutely wonderful concept. I think if it were more reliable I might even suggest ground breaking. The fact is though, at least for me it offers some fairly unpredictable and unreliable results. I am thus far very much unwilling to change my management routine on the basis of untrustworthy results. to those of you who do I wish good fortune. I think you are all a damned sight braver than I. A common line that I have had quoted to me is 'Well, these things don't suit everybody'. I run the risk of appearing naïve but I feel that they really should



Whilst I empathise with your final couple of sentences, it's just not realistic with a product used to aid management of what I always refer to as a portfolio condition.  By portfolio condition, I mean there are so many nuances to the condition itself, like T1, 2, 3 and the rest, then we get to insulin resistance, fatty liver, healthy pancreas (T2 obviously), failing pancreas, honeymoon period, hypothyroidism, PCOS and so, so many other factors that seem to often run with or alongside a diabetic diagnosis.  If it were fair to assume products or regimes would work for everyone, we wouldn't be here.  There'd be one insulin, one diet and one meter, pump, CGM or whatever.

Sadly, I believe what makes diabetes such a tricky condition to manage is the often informed, trial and error approach that has to be adopted.  Try it and see.  If it doesn't work, try something else.  That could be diet, or exercise or medication before we even get to combination factors.

I know it is incredibly dispiriting when something goes a bit wrong; especially when you find yourself out of pocket in the process.  I have had quite a proportion of my Libre sensors replaced and have tried to explore why that might be.  I thought for a while it could be because I have very little subcutaneous fat, but if that were the case, my form of logic suggests it could be flaky for children, and yet it has just been approved for use with children.

Unfortunately, sometimes, some of these things end up filed under, "it was worth a try".


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 22, 2016)

AndBreathe said:


> Whilst I empathise with your final couple of sentences, it's just not realistic with a product used to aid management of what I always refer to as a portfolio condition.  By portfolio condition, I mean there are so many nuances to the condition itself, like T1, 2, 3 and the rest, then we get to insulin resistance, fatty liver, healthy pancreas (T2 obviously), failing pancreas, honeymoon period, hypothyroidism, PCOS and so, so many other factors that seem to often run with or alongside a diabetic diagnosis.  If it were fair to assume products or regimes would work for everyone, we wouldn't be here.  There'd be one insulin, one diet and one meter, pump, CGM or whatever.
> 
> Sadly, I believe what makes diabetes such a tricky condition to manage is the often informed, trial and error approach that has to be adopted.  Try it and see.  If it doesn't work, try something else.  That could be diet, or exercise or medication before we even get to combination factors.
> 
> ...





Woahoahoahoahhh............hold that thought for just one moment please. I am not ready to give up on the little guy just yet. I am finding so many positives with using it I would be bonkers to just trash it. The positives that I have found and I have taken the trouble to shout out loud when I discover them are really quite something. I am aware that the last chunk I waffled on about the system could be construed as quite negative. The thing is though I had encountered some negative experiences with the meter which had I not detailed then I would be really very biased and I am striving with great effort to offer completely neutral opinions. Of course I am getting marginally excited when something goes wrong and also when something goes right. That is just a fault of my own personality. I of course have expectations of the system. I do not feel that these expectations are  unrealistic. I do not expect the sensor to drop off my arm after 3-1/2 days use which unfortunately it did. I do not expect to have to make excuses for one and a half days worth of highly dubious readings when the sensor is first fitted and with all due respect neither should you. On the flip side of this coin the unit has capabilities that far exceed any expectation I could have hoped for. Testing at the wheel of a car with a result in less than 2 seconds (my Accuchek has not even woken up in this time). Testing in bed without switching a light on and getting an absolute tirade of abuse from a quite rightly irate wife. Unlimited testing for a period of 2 weeks per sensor. No finger pricking.

I keep banging on about lack of accuracy and lack of consistency and please believe me I am not making this up. Even my warped imagination could not dream this one up. At 1.30pm this afternoon sat in a production meeting at work. I actually felt really quite flakey. I tested with my Libre which offered a result of 2.8mmols. I followed up with a test using my Accuchek which offered a result of 8.9mmols. I was clearly having a hypo to the amusement of the people I work with since they now recognise these almost as soon as my meter does. I ran a second check with my Accuchek to be offered a result of 3.5mmols. In this case then the Libre was of course very accurate and the Accuchek was a zillion miles away.

I still have 10 days to run on the sensor in my arm and a replacement sensor on the way to me from Abbott to replace the one that fell off. I shudder to think how they might react when I tell them that I can return the failed unit because I binned it in a fit of anger at its failure.

I really do not for one second begrudge paying what I have paid for it. The system still has some miles to run with me yet. I apologise unreservedly if my posts appear negative. This was never and is not my intention. My poor punctured fingers would never forgive me if I gave up on it right now.


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## Rosiecarmel (Apr 22, 2016)

Annette Anderson said:


> I'll take reconditioned, if available...



Hey, as long as it works properly I'm not fussy. Count me in!


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## Robin (Apr 22, 2016)

I had a new experience with mine today, went horse riding, had reader in the outside pocket of a borrowed reflective gilet, i.e. the other side of the padding from any body heat. Got back to the stables and tried to test, and it told me the reader was too cold! I didn't think it was that parky out today. Made mental note to keep it in a pocket where it can benefit from some body heat when I'm in Scotland next week, they're forecasting snow! ( Have had the same problem with a regular meter when I've accidentally left it in the car overnight, but that was in the depths of winter)


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## pottersusan (Apr 22, 2016)

Robin said:


> I had a new experience with mine today, went horse riding, had reader in the outside pocket of a borrowed reflective gilet, i.e. the other side of the padding from any body heat. Got back to the stables and tried to test, and it told me the reader was too cold! I didn't think it was that parky out today. Made mental note to keep it in a pocket where it can benefit from some body heat when I'm in Scotland next week, they're forecasting snow! ( Have had the same problem with a regular meter when I've accidentally left it in the car overnight, but that was in the depths of winter)


It is still April! make sure you take your thermals to Scotland. They've had a much colder winter than us southerners


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 23, 2016)

Robin said:


> I had a new experience with mine today, went horse riding, had reader in the outside pocket of a borrowed reflective gilet, i.e. the other side of the padding from any body heat. Got back to the stables and tried to test, and it told me the reader was too cold! I didn't think it was that parky out today. Made mental note to keep it in a pocket where it can benefit from some body heat when I'm in Scotland next week, they're forecasting snow! ( Have had the same problem with a regular meter when I've accidentally left it in the car overnight, but that was in the depths of winter)




I've only tried riding a horse once. I was on holiday in Cuba. At that time health and safety seemed a concept of which they were blissfully unaware. I sat astride what I can only describe as a hippopotamus with a piece of rope for reigns. I didn't have the first idea what I was doing. The horse immediately seemed to twig on to this and I swear it decided to have a little 'sport' with me. It kept wandering under low branches I am absolutely convinced to unsaddle me. It didn't actually manage that but it did kinda unhinge me. At one point it stopped and decided that it wanted to chew a bit of grass. All I could see ahead of me was open space and I have never felt so vulnerable in all of my life. I started sobbing like a baby while 22 other riders and my wife all absolutely split their sides at my ordeal.  The guide, gaucho if that is the appropriate term then got my horse to behave itself. Something which I was manifestly unqualified to do and we travelled for about 15 miles ending up at a bar on a beach in the middle of nowhere. We had lunch which for me was about 25 straight double shots of rum. The return to the hotel was a breeze as I was really past caring about falling off any more. Everybody told me my thighs would hurt me that night but they didn't.  They also told me that my thighs would really hurt the following day at breakfast but they didn't.  One day later I could hardly get out my sorry ass out of bed as my thighs were in abject agony and remained so for the next 5 days. I love horses but it appears that all they want to do to me is laugh at me. I do believe at one point mine did actually start laughing. 


On a separate note the Libre and Accuchek test results are now very close with only the odd blip now again. The blips are above and below each other so still follow no real pattern.


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## Robin (Apr 23, 2016)

Diabeticliberty said:


> I've only tried riding a horse once. I was on holiday in Cuba. At that time health and safety seemed a concept of which they were blissfully unaware. I sat astride what I can only describe as a hippopotamus with a piece of rope for reigns. I didn't have the first idea what I was doing. The horse immediately seemed to twig on to this and I swear it decided to have a little 'sport' with me. It kept wandering under low branches I am absolutely convinced to unsaddle me. It didn't actually manage that but it did kinda unhinge me. At one point it stopped and decided that it wanted to chew a bit of grass. All I could see ahead of me was open space and I have never felt so vulnerable in all of my life. I started sobbing like a baby while 22 other riders and my wife all absolutely split their sides at my ordeal.  The guide, gaucho if that is the appropriate term then got my horse to behave itself. Something which I was manifestly unqualified to do and we travelled for about 15 miles ending up at a bar on a beach in the middle of nowhere. We had lunch which for me was about 25 straight double shots of rum. The return to the hotel was a breeze as I was really past caring about falling off any more. Everybody told me my thighs would hurt me that night but they didn't.  They also told me that my thighs would really hurt the following day at breakfast but they didn't.  One day later I could hardly get out my sorry ass out of bed as my thighs were in abject agony and remained so for the next 5 days. I love horses but it appears that all they want to do to me is laugh at me. I do believe at one point mine did actually start laughing.
> 
> 
> On a separate note the Libre and Accuchek test results are now very close with only the odd blip now again. The blips are above and below each other so still follow no real pattern.


I rode til my mid teens, then didn't ride again til I was 49. ( It was a case of thinking, if I don't do it again before I'm 50 I never will). First time back, I had a lesson on a real plodder, and thought, OK, I remember how to work hard to get a horse going....I ached for a whole week afterwards.


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## SB2015 (Apr 23, 2016)

I end up riding about every ten years.  Once on the horse I remember that there are no gears, no steering wheel and no brake, and the others around me seem far too close to my calf with teeth bared. So whilst I love the idea of riding along a beach, the reality is something very different!


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## SB2015 (Apr 23, 2016)

PS my sensor fell off this evening after I had showered.  It still had three days to go so I shall try phoning Abbot on Monday.


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 23, 2016)

SB2015 said:


> PS my sensor fell off this evening after I had showered.  It still had three days to go so I shall try phoning Abbot on Monday.




When I rang them they asked for the serial no. You probably know this already but if you don't then you can find it in the device. Go into settings, then system status and then system info.,it is listed there. Also make sure you keep the sensor as they ask for it back. I threw mine away when I had a tantrum cos it failed.  Apparently you are better ringing them as they are slow to respond to emails.  The chap I spoke to was a really nice bloke and very keen to help. 

I hope that you get a positive response from them


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## SB2015 (Apr 23, 2016)

Diabeticliberty said:


> When I rang them they asked for the serial no. You probably know this already but if you don't then you can find it in the device. Go into settings, then system status and then system info.,it is listed there. Also make sure you keep the sensor as they ask for it back. I threw mine away when I had a tantrum cos it failed.  Apparently you are better ringing them as they are slow to respond to emails.  The chap I spoke to was a really nice bloke and very keen to help.
> 
> I hope that you get a positive response from them


Thanks Diabeticliberty.  I shall see what happens on Monday.  I had read your earlier post and the sensor is in the box ready for the inquisition.


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 24, 2016)

Well my luvverly forumites just when you thought it was safe to return to the internet here I am again with yet another Libreating episode regarding the Freestyle device. I have been out all day today up to my waist in a river in the North Of England running salmon fishing lessons. Obviously there was a lot of water around me and oddly enough for the grim north falling from the sky too. Now here's a little something that hit me BOOM right in the proverbial kisser. Ordinarily running finger prick blood tests in this environment can be extremely challenging. With wet fingers it is very much a matter of hit and miss, usually miss to get a result. Even with a readable result I have before now killed a few blood test meters by dropping them into the river where Neptune now gratefully checks his blood glucose levels (he had a result of 12.5mmols this morning before breakfast so has made an appointment with a an underwater diabetic nurse tomorrow) With the Libre inserted in a ziplock bag today all of these issues no longer feature and no wet fingers to puncture and have my blood just trickling away as the water makes testing a big game of silly. Pretty damned fancy!!! I am not suggesting that you all go out and take up salmon fishing although for those of you who wish to I can recommend a half decent instructor (no not me, I'm absolutely dreadful) but for those of you even half involved with any form of outdoor stuff with water below you around you or falling upon you from on high then the Libre is a really good option. For me when teaching in water to be honest it has very quickly become my preferred option.


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 26, 2016)

Today has proven interesting. At one point early this afternoon my Accuchek gave me  a result of 18.9mmols which seemed a little out of the ordinary. My Libre offered a result of 5.7mmols. Hmmmmmm...............a second test with the Accuchek offered a result of 5.9mmols. A call to Roche and they are again swapping the Accuchek. The Libre is proving extremely easy to use. I rarely ever notice that the sensor is attached anymore except on odd occasions I feel a bit of a really faint scratching sensation around the insertion site. I suspect that this is imaginary as I am no doubt conscious of the sensor. Here is a piccy of todays screen.


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## Diabeticliberty (Apr 27, 2016)

Well folks another day and another dollar for my Libre. Today has been remarkably uneventful regarding my device. It continues to work and to risk tempting fate work very well. Random finger prick blood tests are showing results within 1mmol of my Libre. A lot of tests however are giving results with much closer banding. Most appear to be within 0.2mmols. Most important at least to me,  results are very consistent. They are consistent enough to back right off finger prick testing - WAHAHAHAHAHAHEYYYYYYYY WHAT A RESULT!!!!!!!!!! My next Accuchek prescription is due 6th May but I still have a lot of finger prick tests remaining. The fingers on my left hand absolutely love me. 

Complications arise regarding personal conscience and prescriptions. If I tell my GP that I don't need quite so many blood tests anymore which in all fairness I really should then I can never unring that particular bell. Also the expectation from DVLA is to test at the intervals they specify while driving. They are not ready to accept Libre results. I drive a lot of miles. I sometimes feel like I live in my car. I sometimes do literally live in my car!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A rather unique problem I have created for myself.


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## SB2015 (Apr 27, 2016)

Glad the Libre is working well and behaving for you.  

I would still recommend complying with the DVLA requirements when driving, so hang on to those test strips for those occasions.


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## Sydney Bristowe (May 24, 2016)

This thread has been a great read for me. I got my starter pack yesterday and attached my sensor last night... I've had a rubbish couple of weeks on my control because of work, personal commitments and a general inability to refuse chocolate when I'm tired (I know I know!) so was heading for an early night to try and beat the tiredness. So I'd get the full 8 hours of data I decided I'd test at any point I woke up and the thing basically had be at "LO" all night... By 7am I was reading 2.4 with my Contour Next reading 7.3 so I headed here to see what the deal was with the sensors and this thread has really reassured me that i just need to let it settle for today


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## Northerner (May 24, 2016)

Sydney Bristowe said:


> This thread has been a great read for me. I got my starter pack yesterday and attached my sensor last night... I've had a rubbish couple of weeks on my control because of work, personal commitments and a general inability to refuse chocolate when I'm tired (I know I know!) so was heading for an early night to try and beat the tiredness. So I'd get the full 8 hours of data I decided I'd test at any point I woke up and the thing basically had be at "LO" all night... By 7am I was reading 2.4 with my Contour Next reading 7.3 so I headed here to see what the deal was with the sensors and this thread has really reassured me that i just need to let it settle for today


Hope you get more appropriate readings from it from now on Sydney!


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## Diabeticliberty (May 24, 2016)

I have noticed a new trend with mine whereby I get readings which are miles away when the sensor is coming to the end of its 14 day life. Don't get me wrong for the majority of 'throw away results' with tests done in the hoof and stuff it really is very good indeed and the fingers on my left hand are starting to look like grey haven't been chopped up in a bacon slicer. I just personally would not trust the the reports that the software provides as flawed results that manifest themselves at the beginning and end of life of each sensor makes the reports highly dubious. It is possible of course that I am doing something incorrectly but having discussed this at length with a technical advisor at Abbott it seems unlikely


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## Sally71 (May 24, 2016)

We put a new one in on Sunday night and the first reading we got was 2.7, Combo meter read 5.5. Oh dear, not a great start, don't think I've known one that far out before.  A few hours later I tried again and got "Sensor data unavailable, please try again in 10 minutes". Hmmm.  Next one after that was 3.5, Combo reading 6 point something.  Was this going to be our first seriously dodgy sensor?  (We have been extremely lucky so far apart from the one she knocked off her arm at Brownie camp... )
Anyway when she came home from school the next day all her readings were within 1 mmol of the Combo so thank heavens it seems to be settling down nicely!  To be honest I don't think putting it in and then going to bed is particularly clever, we do seem to get a few small gaps in the graph on the first night.  But after that it's ok.  If we left it until Monday morning to put a new sensor in we'd be in too much of a rush to get to school to have time for things like that.  I keep meaning to activate then next one earlier,  but the Scrooge in me can't bear to lose even a couple of hours if we can help it  

The one we just took out was the best one ever, it was pretty much bang on for the whole fortnight.  Shame they can't all be like that


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## Diabeticliberty (May 24, 2016)

It does happen with sometimes disappointing frequency.






Granted there is only a discrepancy of 2.4mmols but the Libe is displaying it's much favoured 'low glucose event' I therefore could be forgiven for running for the biscuit tun.  The fact is though my glucose is not in fact low. It is these such instances which give me some significant concerns regarding the reports generated by the software. I can sit and take great smug delight in my predicted a1c readings but the fact is in truth my actual a1c readings could be on the other side of Merseyside.


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