# decking and noggins



## bev (Jul 18, 2014)

Hi all,

My builder has let me down with my decking - he started it but made a pigs ear of it so I have taken it on as my project! He had put all the joists down but no noggins. The joists are bendy and springy so have bought some extra wood to make my own noggins and have used bricks to support the joists which are now really sturdy! So how far apart do I do the noggins and will this give a better support? Also a couple of the joists are sitting on soil so wondering whether this will rot the joists over time? 

Before I put the bricks in the joists were so springy that the decking would have been like a trampolene! Other than adding noggins is there anything else I can do to make sure the frame is sturdy? I have bought expensive hardwood decking and want to do this right but have no experience of it - am quite practical and do lots of my own DIY! I have lots of spare bricks and thinking I may put these between the joists for extra suppor as the the levels from the back to the front of the decking goes from nil to about 20 inches at the front end. Thanks for any advice! Bev


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## Vicsetter (Jul 18, 2014)

I wouldn't have thought you needed noggins.  The decking boards will tie it all together.  Noggins provide something to screw into (not required for decking) and to stop the joist twisting.

A good article on decking is here:http://www.qualitydecking.co.uk/planning-deck.php

The joists shouldn't touch bare soil or grass, they will rot.
There should be some kind of membrane on top of the bare ground to stop weed growth.

If you support the joists on bricks on unprepared ground then they will eventually dig into the ground and cause your deck to sag.

Good luck.


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## Redkite (Jul 19, 2014)

Bev, I admire you for doing all this DIY, but my first thought (haven't read the replies yet) was what on earth is a noggin?  It sounds like it should be a tot of whisky or something?


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## Vicsetter (Jul 19, 2014)

Redkite said:


> Bev, I admire you for doing all this DIY, but my first thought (haven't read the replies yet) was what on earth is a noggin?  It sounds like it should be a tot of whisky or something?



It's a piece of wood that joins two joists, usually put in slightly staggered from the next noggin so that you can nail them in.  If you think of the joists as the uprights of a capital letter H then the noggin is the horizontal cross bit in between.

We also have things called Dwangs in Scotland (which are more or less the same as noggins) that go in between upright wall studs and are used for supporting things like light switches. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwang).
Scots has lots of lovely words for things.


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## Redkite (Jul 19, 2014)

Thankyou Vic, I've learned something new! . Out of interest, is there a special Scots word for a tot of whisky?!!


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## bev (Jul 19, 2014)

Hi Vicsetter and Redkite,

Thanks for your repliesI managed to fall off one of the noggins onto some boulders and bricks so have been to A & E this morning! All fine but tender and lots of bruising! Anyway - Vicsetter thanks for the information - the area of my decking is 22 square metres and from what I have googled it seems that it does give some extra structural support on bigger areas like this. I suppose it wont harm to add noggins anyway - but will now have to wait until my ribcage feels less sore!

By the way - the noggin I fell off wasnt one that I had done - it was the builder and the wood had split where he hadnt put the nails in properly! At least mine will be put in straight and properly! Interesting you say that they can be nailed in? I had assumed I would need to drill and screw?Bev


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## bev (Jul 19, 2014)

Redkite said:


> Thankyou Vic, I've learned something new! . Out of interest, is there a special Scots word for a tot of whisky?!!



I am guessing its called 'a wee dram'? Bev


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## AlisonM (Jul 19, 2014)

Correct Bev, it's a dram, or maybe a nip if it's a little one.


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## Redkite (Jul 19, 2014)

Oh dear Bev, glad you didn't suffer anything more serious.  That's a good illustration of why I avoid DIY.  I feel quite proud of myself if I manage to nail a picture to the wall!


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## Vicsetter (Jul 19, 2014)

I hope you recover soon Bev.
I did 'O' level woodwork and technically you should nail into end grain and not screw.  A Screw will pull out of end grain and will not make a strong joint.  However life is short and chippies on building site tend to nail everything, it's a lot quicker, especially with a nail gun.


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## bev (Jul 19, 2014)

Vicsetter said:


> I hope you recover soon Bev.
> I did 'O' level woodwork and technically you should nail into end grain and not screw.  A Screw will pull out of end grain and will not make a strong joint.  However life is short and chippies on building site tend to nail everything, it's a lot quicker, especially with a nail gun.



Hi Vicsetter,

Oops - I spent hours screwing them all in before! I have to say that the frame feels really sturdy now so must have done something right! Just need to put some boulders under front end of decking then cover with weed control and onto fixing the decking down - that will hopefully be the nice part!Bev


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