# I'm doing something wrong?



## Iwillgetthere (Nov 15, 2020)

I've been following a lbhf diet for the last 3 weeks. I walk 3 miles each day.
Last week Sunday I weighed 13st 3 and today 13st 6!
Typical days food:
Breakfast 200g Greek yog 
Sprinkled with 20gmixed seeds and Chia seeds.
Lunch: lettuce with tuna and cottage cheese or cheese omelette
Tea: chicken stew
Or roast meat with green veg ( brocolli, kale, sprouts etc.)
These are all things that have little effect on my blood glucose but I don't understand my weight gain, any ideas? I'm obviously over looking something.


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## Ljc (Nov 15, 2020)

Your diet seems fine .
Do you weigh yourself at around the same time each time , I find I weigh heavier later on in the day than when I weigh myself in the morning .

If you are female, could it be hormonal


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## Iwillgetthere (Nov 15, 2020)

Hi Lin, thanks for your thoughts.
Yes, I weigh in on the same day at the same time to minimise discrepancies.
It could be hormonal I suppose, I have a contraceptive implant so would have thought that would be fairly stable.


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## Vonny (Nov 15, 2020)

I agree with @Ljc, your diet seems fine to me. It must be very galling to gain weight on such a good diet and with exercise as well. Our bodies, however, sometimes don't do what we think they should. Well, mine doesn't at any rate! A friend of mine reminded me once that my body doesn't know what a week is, when I get grumpy that I haven't lost weight. 

I agree it could be hormonal, regardless of the implant. I'm fortunate that those days are long gone for  me. There are definitely benefits to getting older


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## Iwillgetthere (Nov 15, 2020)

Thanks Vonny, funnily enough my body has never responded as it should, perhaps it is a little unfair of me to expect it to know 'week' .


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## rebrascora (Nov 15, 2020)

I would suggest you might want to start measuring yourself as well rather than just weighing. If you are exercising more than you used to, you may be burning off fat but gaining muscle. 
Don't be discouraged though, sooner or later you will see a drop. Keep at it, you are doing well even if your body is reluctant to admit it and conform. The important thing is for your BG levels to be in range and it sounds like that is going well.


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## Iwillgetthere (Nov 15, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> I would suggest you might want to start measuring yourself as well rather than just weighing. If you are exercising more than you used to, you may be burning off fat but gaining muscle.
> Don't be discouraged though, sooner or later you will see a drop. Keep at it, you are doing well even if your body is reluctant to admit it and conform. The important thing is for your BG levels to be in range and it sounds like that is going well.


Thank you Barbara for your encouraging words.
I shall start measuring alongside my weighing.


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## Iwillgetthere (Nov 18, 2020)

Ah, I think I may have found something.
I have just logged today's food on a carb and calorie counter
Brekkie: yoghurt, chia se ds and seed mix.
Lunch: smoked mackerel salad with 2 boiled eggs and coleslaw.
Tea: I grill steak, cauliflower and courgette.
Two cups of coffee with cream
A grand total of 2134 calories!!!
68g carbs though!


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## rebrascora (Nov 18, 2020)

Yes that is a lot of quite food and most of it quite calorie dense. Can you trim back the coffees to just one and have a fruit tea or diet drink instead and maybe bulk the salad out with lettuce and cucumber rather than 2 boiled eggs.... that's quite a lot of protein and fat on one plate with mackerel and 2 eggs and then more meat in the evening. 
It is a good start with reducing the carbs though and you may well find that once you get over a few weeks without lots of carbs you will not need to eat so much of the other stuff either and not feel hungry. It takes time for your body to adjust to not getting carbs and not craving them. It may also help to use a smaller serving plate and to sit and eat your food without being in front of the TV etc, so you can actually be in the moment with your food, chew it slowly and enjoy it. Sounds a bit flower power I know but surprisingly it all helps.


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## Iwillgetthere (Nov 18, 2020)

All great tips thank you Barbara, I've been that fixated on getting rid of the carbs that I have overlooked the rest. Funnily enough I am never hungry and feel I have to eat 3 times a day if only to keep my energy levels up, which currently feel none existent.


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## Drummer (Nov 18, 2020)

You might still be overdoing things just a little, but just enough to leave you betwixt and between using glucose and using fats.
Try reducing down to 50 gm of carbs - that seems to be a significant number for many people.
When I was just starting out and still l eating three times a day I lost quite a lot of weight on 50 gm - it is significant from my days doing Atkins as the amount I ate and saw regular weight loss. 
When you swap to using fats you should feel more energetic. You might be just in the glucose burning state, and feel you lack energy as you run out of glucose and don't just flip over into ketosis.


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## Iwillgetthere (Nov 19, 2020)

Thank you @Drummer, 
I tend to average 65-70g carbs so will work on that too! Got to get me some energy from somewhere, I thought it was the Metformin zapping me- on the 3rd sort since 1st October and finding them really difficult to be on.


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## Drummer (Nov 19, 2020)

Energy doesn't have to come from carbs - I eat a maximum of 40 gm of carbs and can go out all day and not feel tired after just 10 gm of carbs at breakfast - I then have the rest for supper or take something out with me if I know I am going to be really late home.
Metformin was pretty disastrous for me - explosive incontinence is the best description. If it was Metformin or frogspawn, sorry frogs.


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## rebrascora (Nov 19, 2020)

What are your BG levels like? If you are running high that does make you feel like you are wading through treacle and struggling for energy. I find as soon as my levels hit about 9 I can feel it, like lead weights on my arms and legs. Just wondering if that may be a reason for you lacking energy. I notice you started posting on the "Group 7 day waking average" thread but then stopped. Don't be frightened to post just because your readings aren't great. They will improve and you learn lots about strategies to do so. I know it may seem like everyone has great results but they don't and if you stick around on there you will see that. It has taken me 20 months to start seeing more consistent good results but I still get phases where they are not so good.


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## Iwillgetthere (Nov 19, 2020)

Drummer said:


> Energy doesn't have to come from carbs - I eat a maximum of 40 gm of carbs and can go out all day and not feel tired after just 10 gm of carbs at breakfast - I then have the rest for supper or take something out with me if I know I am going to be really late home.
> Metformin was pretty disastrous for me - explosive incontinence is the best description. If it was Metformin or frogspawn, sorry frogs.


Explosive and unannounced- yes Metformin is not my friend, the latest (glucophage) makes me feel awful too. 
I'm not sure how beneficial they are, I'm sure I've read that on average metformin can reduce BG levels by 1.4%? If that is the case in not sure they are worth the problems associated.
I do think you are right I am betwixt and my body is not yet using fats. Thanks for your help.


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## Iwillgetthere (Nov 19, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> What are your BG levels like? If you are running high that does make you feel like you are wading through treacle and struggling for energy. I find as soon as my levels hit about 9 I can feel it, like lead weights on my arms and legs. Just wondering if that may be a reason for you lacking energy. I notice you started posting on the "Group 7 day waking average" thread but then stopped. Don't be frightened to post just because your readings aren't great. They will improve and you learn lots about strategies to do so. I know it may seem like everyone has great results but they don't and if you stick around on there you will see that. It has taken me 20 months to start seeing more consistent good results but I still get phases where they are not so good.


Hi Barbara, 
I was so pleased that I had got down to the 8.+ club. 
I was then changed to a different Metformin and amitriptyline for the neuropathy pain and went back up to 10+. The amitriptyline means I'm really groggy of a morning and can't quite wake up, I wonder then if the dawn phenomenon is then impacting on my 'waking' reading? 
I really want to get to grips with all this. The forum is the best help and support I can tap into. 
My D nurse told me that porridge was the best thing I could eat for breakfast even if it did cause a rise in BG of 5.2! Up to 14.6 after 2 hours because ' that's the best thing for  T2 diabetics'!
I've also just received a hard copy of some materials for aT2 online education course that I have been referred to that suggests cornflakes, milk, a slice of wholemeal Toast and glass of orange juice will give me a good start to the day!!! 
Any help ( from posting on this forum) is always appreciated!


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## grovesy (Nov 19, 2020)

Metformin is not the only medication for Type 2 , if it is not suiting you need to discuss with the Doctor/Nurse.


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## rebrascora (Nov 19, 2020)

Iwillgetthere said:


> My D nurse told me that porridge was the best thing I could eat for breakfast even if it did cause a rise in BG of 5.2! Up to 14.6 after 2 hours because ' that's the best thing for T2 diabetics'!
> I've also just received a hard copy of some materials for aT2 online education course that I have been referred to that suggests cornflakes, milk, a slice of wholemeal Toast and glass of orange juice will give me a good start to the day!!!
> Any help ( from posting on this forum) is always appreciated!


That is so frustrating to hear. I keep hoping that the message is gradually changing but clearly not when you have printed literature targeted at Type 2 diabetics recommending cornflakes and orange juice.... Makes you despair!

Good that you have found the forum though and have a better plan to manage your diabetes.

Sorry to hear that you are finding the Metformin is causing you significant digestive upset. Taking it on an evening with a substantial meal (I used to take it mid meal) to reduce the negative effects on the gut is probably best. Is the Glucophage the slow/modified release version? Sometimes it is the coatings and additives which cause problems rather than the active ingredient but if you have tried several other brands and still getting such unpleasant side effects then I think you are within your rights to say you don't want to take it anymore. It may also be impacting your vitamin B absorption which could be adding to your neuropathy pain, particularly as you are suffering with diarrhoea as a result which is likely to impact the absorption of nutrients. I too am not convinced of the efficacy of it as regards BG levels and whilst I did find it had a mild appetite suppressant effect on me which may benefit some people needing to lose weight, by the sound of it for you the side effects outweigh any possible benefit.

Sounds like it may well be your BG levels which are causing you to feel lacklustre. Are you getting better results throughout the day than those fasting readings. For info, fasting readings are usually the last to come down into range so try not to be too discouraged by them and yes, if you are getting up later, it may be a case of DP raising them. Can you set an alarm and wake up earlier and test and then go back to sleep if you feel you need it. It can be good to give you an idea of what is going on at times when you wouldn't normally test..... Those of us lucky enough to have Libre Sensors really appreciate all the extra data that comes with seeing what happens  during all of that time when you are not testing. Before I got the sensors I decided to do some very intensive testing, doing 15-16 finger pricks a day for several weeks and that alone helped me improve my readings enormously, by experimenting to see which strategies worked and which didn't and then fine tuning the ones that did work. It was a lot of work, but well worth it. I appreciate, not everyone has the time to dedicate to experimenting like that although I take the view that my health is worth it.

Anyway, keep plugging away with your low carb. You are doing great and I wouldn't go too much lower carb just yet. Bringing your levels down slowly and steadily is much better than going at it hammer and tongs from the start. Give your body time to adjust and try to build up your activity levels at the same time, but make any targets really easy to achieve so you are not daunted by the prospect. If you have a bad day, drop the bar a bit lower if necessary but try not to break the habit of doing something every day... anything is better than nothing...... If you want a laugh.... I was out in the dark at about 11pm coming back from my evening walk last night, singing Jungle Book songs and started dancing to "I'm the king of the swingers!" Good exercise and it was nice to be a bit silly. Thankfully I do live in quite a rural area so no one to see or hear, but do you know what, it felt good! The sheep in the field next door were a bit bemused though! No reason why you can't put some music on at home though and have a good dance round the living room or your bedroom if you live with others and feel self conscious. Have a disco every night for 10-15 mins... you could even get dressed up for it.

Anyway, just some of my thoughts and suggestions!.... You probably think I'm a right plonker now.... and you are probably right!


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## trophywench (Nov 19, 2020)

Lacklustre - hmmm, have they checked your TSH level recently?  People like us * tend to do better with lower levels of TSH than non diabetic folk.  Remember one late middle aged, ie very experienced, GP saying (agreeing with the hospital and everything Google etc had said) 'I have found that people like you do tend to do better with a lower level of TSH' so I said 'When you say 'people like me' do you mean middle aged female, brunette insurance brokers, or what?' and he grinned back and said 'Well if the cap fits - but no not that - just diabetics mainly and doesn't matter whether T1 or T2!'

Until they'd titrated my Levothyroxine to get my TSH down to much nearer 1.0, I was always tired.


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## Drummer (Nov 19, 2020)

trophywench said:


> Lacklustre - hmmm, have they checked your TSH level recently?  People like us * tend to do better with lower levels of TSH than non diabetic folk.  Remember one late middle aged, ie very experienced, GP saying (agreeing with the hospital and everything Google etc had said) 'I have found that people like you do tend to do better with a lower level of TSH' so I said 'When you say 'people like me' do you mean middle aged female, brunette insurance brokers, or what?' and he grinned back and said 'Well if the cap fits - but no not that - just diabetics mainly and doesn't matter whether T1 or T2!'
> 
> Until they'd titrated my Levothyroxine to get my TSH down to much nearer 1.0, I was always tired.


Ah - my doctor always said that I could not have any more Thyroxine as I was in normal range for TSH - but I have never felt quite the same supercharged person I used to be back in my 20s even though I was told that everything should be normal.
Mind you - I've had it with the 'its your age, dear' comments - I was quite sarcastic the last time I heard that.


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## trophywench (Nov 19, 2020)

I freely admit that it is a fantastic advantage being Type 1 for the simple reason diabetes consultants are firstly fully qualified endocrinologists before they specialise and so mine has always been onside with me to begin with. Hence they titrated my Levo and the GP simply went along with what they said.

Just been looking - 1.16 November 2019, was the last test result currently to hand as they no longer show the hospital ones on there.


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## Iwillgetthere (Nov 19, 2020)

@rebrascora Oh the idea of coming across a singing person in the middle of the night would definitely give me something to talk about, saying that on our walk today I broke into the Rainbow theme tune as I saw a rainbow, and then a little further down the road ELO's Mr Blue Skies because...well, i'm sure you can guess! 
So yes I walk every day, at least 3 miles which helps to bring down a morning peak and so for most of the day I average a bg of late 7's. 
The glucophage is a slow release Metformin, the second sort of sr I've tried. 
I will certainly discuss alternatives with my DN on Monday ( thanks @grovesy for letting me know there are alternatives.) To be fair I would rather do without tablets and manage this myself - by test, test, testing, diet and exercise. I may just be expecting a bit too much instantly!
Looking at my latest blood tests my B12 level is 279 a and then my TSH was 1.54. (@trophywench thanks for the heads up on this one- I take it this is something to do with thyroid) 
The only test that came back as abnormal was my serum ferritin (iron?) At 480 is too high. I believe fatigue is a side effect of this, they are not going to do anything about it until my Bg is lowered. 
Onward and downward!


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## Drummer (Nov 20, 2020)

Iwillgetthere said:


> My D nurse told me that porridge was the best thing I could eat for breakfast even if it did cause a rise in BG of 5.2! Up to 14.6 after 2 hours because ' that's the best thing for  T2 diabetics'!
> I've also just received a hard copy of some materials for aT2 online education course that I have been referred to that suggests cornflakes, milk, a slice of wholemeal Toast and glass of orange juice will give me a good start to the day!!!
> Any help ( from posting on this forum) is always appreciated!


I think I am having a bad day - reading this and I just broke down in tears - how - in the face of this are people even going to survive?
It was at this time of year, in about 1955 or 6 that my grandmother died from the complications of type 2.


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## rebrascora (Nov 20, 2020)

I must confess it really upset me (more than just frustration) to read that message too @Drummer and I don't have a family tragedy to evoke an emotional response. Just makes you despair!


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## Iwillgetthere (Nov 27, 2020)

I do wonder at other people being given the T2 diagnosis! I'm very grateful for this forum, to those who have recorded their journeys and have supported anyone with a way forward.
I have come off the Metformin now and have been given 3 months to sort my Bg levels.
 I got hold of a couple of Mike Mosley books (suggested by my partner's Dr for his high blood pressure) so I now AM keeping a grip on the other things, not just the carbs and I have seen consistent waking bloods in the 8's, and when I weighed myself this morning the scales began with 12 stone (and 13lbs but...) And my weight has not been this low since I was 17 years old, I'm currently 48! 
Thanks to you guys I think I'm on the right path, I'm sure there will be other tweaks to make as I go but I am very grateful for your help!


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## rebrascora (Nov 27, 2020)

Sounds like you have made a great start. I am sure with some effort, you will be as successful as the rest of us.
I am 56 and I tried on a very fitted off the shoulder dress the other day which I bought when I was in my 20s and had been tucked away at the back of the wardrobe for an awful lot of years.... and it fit perfectly..... I could even sit down in it!! That gave me a real confidence boost especially as I tend to spend every day in jodhpurs and wellies or scruffy jeans. Now I just need to stay this way and hope for a wedding or a day at the races or something next summer so that I have an opportunity to wear it in public! Polka dots are back in fashion I believe!!


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## Iwillgetthere (Dec 19, 2020)

So chuffed! This morning I had a waking BG of 7.4 , I've lost another pound , so 20 since September and the icing (non carb, non sugar) on the cake, I got my latest hba1c results -  50!!   Down from an initial result at the start of October of 90!!
Thank you so much for all you do on this forum, it has been invaluable and will continue to be so!


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## Christy (Dec 19, 2020)

Well done! You must be delighted!  Like you, I'm so grateful for this forum. Sadly, the NHS seems to be letting this cohort of patients down with their old fashioned eating advice (or lack of any advice really). Hope your success continues in 2021. You're off to a great start!


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## rebrascora (Dec 19, 2020)

Oh Wow! Well done you! FAB-U-LOUS as Craig Revel Horwood will no doubt say tonight at some point!. 
You should be so proud of yourself. Keep at it and the next target of getting a sub diabetic HbA1c should follow easily enough. I bet you feel so much better in yourself as well. 
Will you be having a little celebration tonight?


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## Iwillgetthere (Dec 19, 2020)

Christy said:


> Well done! You must be delighted!  Like you, I'm so grateful for this forum. Sadly, the NHS seems to be letting this cohort of patients down with their old fashioned eating advice (or lack of any advice really). Hope your success continues in 2021. You're off to a great start!


Thank you Christy!


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## Iwillgetthere (Dec 19, 2020)

rebrascora said:


> Oh Wow! Well done you! FAB-U-LOUS as Craig Revel Horwood will no doubt say tonight at some point!.
> You should be so proud of yourself. Keep at it and the next target of getting a sub diabetic HbA1c should follow easily enough. I bet you feel so much better in yourself as well.
> Will you be having a little celebration tonight?


Thank you @rebrascora ! 
I shall celebrate with a(nother) handful of raw spinach and maybe a coffee with skinny hazelnut creamer!


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## Ljc (Dec 20, 2020)

Oh WOW you have done really well. I hope you are feeling much better in yourself too .

I have just caught up with your thread and to say I was shocked at the dietary advice of cornflakes and orange juice being good for  T2s is an understatement, no wonder so many people who don’t come to forums like this one, end up so poorly, it is a scandal really.


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## Iwillgetthere (Dec 20, 2020)

Ljc said:


> Oh WOW you have done really well. I hope you are feeling much better in yourself too .
> 
> I have just caught up with your thread and to say I was shocked at the dietary advice of cornflakes and orange juice being good for  T2s is an understatement, no wonder so many people who don’t come to forums like this one, end up so poorly, it is a scandal really.


@ LJC, it is a scandal as you say. The disparity in advice from professionals is, I think, shameful. I believe that all should be given the equipment to self test and discover how food affects them.


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## trophywench (Dec 20, 2020)

Ah, well, all T2s used to be - but as the dietary advice was so sparse and iffy in the first place, insisting as it did and often still does that we MUST all eat carbs else we'll die, plus should you enquire 'So after I eat my Sunday dinner and then test again at teatime and the meter display says 15.0'- how do I try to correct this? and were told, 'You could try going for a walk mid afternoon' and ask 'OK, how far do I need to walk then?' the answer would be 'Well, you'll just have to try walks of various lengths until you find how far for yourself'  and then asked 'Is there anything else I could do?' you'd be told 'No, there isn't'.

So 20-ish years ago we'd all see posts on forums saying eg my dad recently died and my mom discovered 20 boxes of unused testing strips at the back of his cupboard, cos he got 2 boxes a month automatically on his repeat prescription and he'd stopped using them ages ago as they were of no use to him since he couldn't take much exercise due to the neuropathy in his feet - so I was wondering if they'd be of any use to anyone else?

This was I'm sorry to say, typical and consequently did cost the NHS FAR too much money every year.  They even funded a clinical trial to PROVE it was a waste of money and testing made no difference whatever to the overall outcome - those of us around on forums back then were blooming furious, because the dietary advice was still precisely the same - carbs with everything of instantly drop dead - your choice!

I really AM sorry to have to rant - I really should NOT have to still need to do this - it isn't at all good for my own mental health and wellbeing - let alone a T2's.

But it is EXACTLY why when linking anyone to Alan Shanley's Blog 'Test, Review, Adjust' chapter I add 'But unless you also intend to Review and Adjust - don't bother wasting your time testing in the first place - cos there's absolutely no point.'


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## Iwillgetthere (Dec 20, 2020)

trophywench said:


> Ah, well, all T2s used to be - but as the dietary advice was so sparse and iffy in the first place, insisting as it did and often still does that we MUST all eat carbs else we'll die, plus should you enquire 'So after I eat my Sunday dinner and then test again at teatime and the meter display says 15.0'- how do I try to correct this? and were told, 'You could try going for a walk mid afternoon' and ask 'OK, how far do I need to walk then?' the answer would be 'Well, you'll just have to try walks of various lengths until you find how far for yourself'  and then asked 'Is there anything else I could do?' you'd be told 'No, there isn't'.
> 
> So 20-ish years ago we'd all see posts on forums saying eg my dad recently died and my mom discovered 20 boxes of unused testing strips at the back of his cupboard, cos he got 2 boxes a month automatically on his repeat prescription and he'd stopped using them ages ago as they were of no use to him since he couldn't take much exercise due to the neuropathy in his feet - so I was wondering if they'd be of any use to anyone else?
> 
> ...


@ trophywench 
20 years ago my father was diagnosed as being diabetic. He was told to go away & eat carbs. Now he is insulin dependent and only this past year have his diabetic team mentioned not eating so many carbs.
My GP surgery urged me to take control of my diabetic journey and that is what I have done. For those that care not to, well good luck to them.


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