# Burgen Bread is loathsome



## Eddy Edson (Dec 2, 2018)

In 1991, Boston Consulting Group and McKinseys were tasked with rejigging a huge, ancient and incredibly ill-maintained ex-Soviet synthetic rubber plant, previously devoted to producing tank tracks for the Red Army & polluting the Omsk region. 

A joint team of bright & ambitious 26 year-olds set to work, and as chance would have it, discovered via their bright/ambitious 26 year-old networks that JP Morgan had acquired the entire soy and linseed stockpile of the ex-Roumanian People's Army, dating from 1964 & no longer required for manufacturing punishment rations.

To cut a long story short, in the heady glow of post-historical capitalist triumphalism the three groups got together and not only created Burgen Bread but also a marketing campaign successfully promoting it as "food".

Not really .. but people actually like it???  I'd forgotten how loathsome it is until I ate some out of politeness today.  Why not just eat seeds? 

Umm ... I'll shut up now.


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## Northerner (Dec 2, 2018)

Hush your mouth!  It's the only bread I have eaten for about the past 8 years!   Unless forced by circumstances to eat a substitute, which is always unsatisfactory!


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## Eddy Edson (Dec 2, 2018)

Northerner said:


> Hush your mouth!  It's the only bread I have eaten for about the past 8 years!   Unless forced by circumstances to eat a substitute, which is always unsatisfactory!



Weird. You probably like mushrooms too


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## Pumper_Sue (Dec 2, 2018)

I like Burgen bread but don't like chocolate = everyone's taste buds are different


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## Madeline (Dec 2, 2018)

Gosh, it’s less than half the carbs per slice than the seedy bread I’m eating. Is it really that bad? Like on a scale of cake (1) to mushroom (10) levels?


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## Northerner (Dec 2, 2018)

Pumper_Sue said:


> I like Burgen bread but don't like chocolate = everyone's taste buds are different


Indeed. Apart from those people who like celery or radishes, I don't think they actually have taste buds


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## eggyg (Dec 2, 2018)

I like it too, it’s light and I now find other breads heavy and stodgy and no...I don’t like mushrooms!


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## Northerner (Dec 2, 2018)

Madeline said:


> Gosh, it’s less than half the carbs per slice than the seedy bread I’m eating. Is it really that bad? Like on a scale of cake (1) to mushroom (10) levels?


It's really nice bread and stays fresh longer than most, I have found  Lower carb due to the soya flour content, plus the seeds help slow the digestion


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## Madeline (Dec 2, 2018)

Northerner said:


> Indeed. Apart from those people who like celery or radishes, I don't think they actually have taste buds



Celery is the food of the devil. Right up there with mushrooms and spinach.


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## eggyg (Dec 2, 2018)

Northerner said:


> Indeed. Apart from those people who like celery or radishes, I don't think they actually have taste buds


Oh celery! Yuk! Radishes! Yuk! What really is the point, but hey good job we are all different or there would be an international shortage of Burgen, mushrooms, celery and radishes! Now chocolate @Pumper_Sue is one life’s great pleasures. My middle daughter doesn’t like chocolate whereas myself, Mr Eggy, daughters 1 and 3 are all chocoholics. We often joke she must have been swapped in the hospital!


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## Madeline (Dec 2, 2018)

eggyg said:


> Oh celery! Yuk! Radishes! Yuk! What really is the point, but hey good job we are all different or there would be an international shortage of Burgen, mushrooms, celery and radishes!



Silver lining on Brexit?

When I first came home from hospital I was completely off chocolate, it was really traumatic. Now I can only eat the really, really dark stuff, but it is my most favourite thing in the world, AND it’s supposed to lower your BG.


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## Rachel64 (Dec 2, 2018)

It really is good that we are all different! I love celery, radishes and mushrooms


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## Amigo (Dec 2, 2018)

I started off liking Burgen but quickly tired of it (I tried, honestly).

However I love mushrooms, spinach and can even tolerate celery and radishes.

Chocolate...now you’re talking!


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## Sharron1 (Dec 2, 2018)

Madeline said:


> Silver lining on Brexit?
> 
> When I first came home from hospital I was completely off chocolate, it was really traumatic. Now I can only eat the really, really dark stuff, but it is my most favourite thing in the world, AND it’s supposed to lower your BG.


Hi,

Dark chocolate - used to really dislike the stuff. Now I find I can eat two or three pieces of the really dark  stuff a night (my treat) and I quite like it.


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## Madeline (Dec 2, 2018)

Sharron1 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Dark chocolate - used to really dislike the stuff. Now I find I can eat two or three pieces of the really dark  stuff a night (my treat) and I quite like it.


Me too, Green & Blacks 70% is my favourite, it has more ‘mouth feel’ than Lindt, I find. It’s my treat, that and an evening in front of Midsomer Murders


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## Sharron1 (Dec 2, 2018)

Hi,

Yup that all sounds good. I am even bolder I have the Green and Black 90% (I think) organic. The thing is that you can't really eat that much of it. I have the Lindt at the moment - in the spirit of experimentation.Today was a treat day, 1/2 a chocolate eclair for my sis's birthday... When I mentioned this to the Diabetes Nurse she gave me chapter and verse about the fat content . I simply looked at her and wished I hadn't opened my mouth. As I am one of those diabetics who wasn't too overweight, now I have a healthy BMI and I hadn't asked for her advice I was simply being chatty - lesson learnt!!! 1/2 a chocolate eclair (approx 8 carbs)


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## Ljc (Dec 2, 2018)

Ack Burgen, I hate the stuff 
However I love celery, mushrooms , Brussel sprouts . It’s a good job we are not all the same


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## Sharron1 (Dec 2, 2018)

Eddy Edson said:


> In 1991, Boston Consulting Group and McKinseys were tasked with rejigging a huge, ancient and incredibly ill-maintained ex-Soviet synthetic rubber plant, previously devoted to producing tank tracks for the Red Army & polluting the Omsk region.
> 
> A joint team of bright & ambitious 26 year-olds set to work, and as chance would have it, discovered via their bright/ambitious 26 year-old networks that JP Morgan had acquired the entire soy and linseed stockpile of the ex-Roumanian People's Army, dating from 1964 & no longer required for manufacturing punishment rations.
> 
> ...


Hi,

Your post made me laugh so much - love the idea that a result of the heady glow of post- historical capitalist triumphalism was Burgen - even if you made it up as far as I am concerned it is now fact and not 'fake news'. Living in  a country where I am now listening to discussions on rations (if we are lucky) post BREXIT ... Burgen may well be the  saviour  of the UK . Finally I an ahead of the game


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## Ljc (Dec 2, 2018)

Sharron1 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Yup that all sounds good. I am even bolder I have the Green and Black 90% (I think) organic. The thing is that you can't really eat that much of it. I have the Lindt at the moment - in the spirit of experimentation.Today was a treat day, 1/2 a chocolate eclair for my sis's birthday... When I mentioned this to the Diabetes Nurse she gave me chapter and verse about the fat content . I simply looked at her and wished I hadn't opened my mouth. As I am one of those diabetics who wasn't too overweight, now I have a healthy BMI and I hadn't asked for her advice I was simply being chatty - lesson learnt!!! 1/2 a chocolate eclair (approx 8 carbs)


She went off on one and you’d only had half a choc eclair .
After lots of disagreements with my nurse about my diet , we have come to a compromise, we just don’t mention it


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## Madeline (Dec 2, 2018)

I got the low fat, plenty of ‘healthy’ carbs char too, plus a booklet to back up all the nonsense she spouted. I filed it in the recycling, someone will be wiping with it soon  She’s going to have kittens when she sees my food diary, but I’m only slightly overweight, and have abnormally low cholesterol, so I figure fat is my friend.

Working up to the hard stuff, it’s a bit of a shock after being a lifelong Galaxy lover.


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## Madeline (Dec 2, 2018)

I see I’m not the only one struggling with the NHS dietary advice.


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## Ljc (Dec 2, 2018)

Madeline said:


> I see I’m not the only one struggling with the NHS dietary advice.


Nope your definitely not alone.


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## Ljc (Dec 2, 2018)

Madeline said:


> I got the low fat, plenty of ‘healthy’ carbs char too, plus a booklet to back up all the nonsense she spouted. I filed it in the recycling, someone will be wiping with it soon


 



> She’s going to have kittens when she sees my food diary, but I’m only slightly overweight, and have abnormally low cholesterol, so I figure fat is my friend.
> 
> Working up to the hard stuff, it’s a bit of a shock after being a lifelong Galaxy lover.


Use you good BG control and cholesterol levels as defence


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## Sharron1 (Dec 2, 2018)

Ljc said:


> She went off on one and you’d only had half a choc eclair .
> After lots of disagreements with my nurse about my diet , we have come to a compromise, we just don’t mention it


We haven't arrived at that relationship yet but no doubt we will - god knows what she will say when she learns that I have been self testing...


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## Ljc (Dec 2, 2018)

Sharron1 said:


> We haven't arrived at that relationship yet but no doubt we will - god knows what she will say when she learns that I have been self testing...



Practice your 1st aid as she’ll probably have a canary fit lol.
But don’t worry you’ll soon get her trained up lol.

When you joined here, did you know what a bunch of rebels you were joining


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## JMyrtle (Dec 2, 2018)

Oh how I agree, the stuff is totally disgusting! Thought I was the only one!


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## Amigo (Dec 2, 2018)

I take a totally different view to this. The nurse (not a DSN), I see annually, has no interest in what I’m eating and never asks. She just says, ‘it’s your diabetes, do what works for you’. 
I certainly wouldn’t be eating only half a chocolate eclair as they’re quite low carb relatively speaking. 
If someone questioned me for testing, I’d be asking them what it had to do with them! 

It’s our body, our condition and our consequences so never accept medical tyranny!


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## Madeline (Dec 2, 2018)

I’ll be gritting my teeth and trying cloud bread at this rate.

The single most disgusting thing I have ever tried was a Slimming World orange  ‘cake’. I use the term cake in the loosest possible way, because when it was cooked and tried it turned out that I’d basically made an orange flavoured oven baked washing up sponge. It was absolutely rank. 

I debated throwing it out for the birds, but I like birds so I didn’t. I then thought about washing the windows with it, but who wants windows with a light covering of orange scented egg? So into the bin it went. What a waste of eggs and oranges. That’s why SW works, 90% of their stuff is inedible, so you starve.


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## Karsten (Dec 2, 2018)

Northerner said:


> Indeed. Apart from those people who like celery or radishes, I don't think they actually have taste buds


Heinz Tomato soup.. special ingredient -- Celery !!

I put two sticks of celery in all my own home made soups.
Don't like veg but you gotta eat it to keep sugars low so make I soup.. cabbage, leek, kale, spinach, tomatoes, mushrooms, peppers and chill flakes
add Quorn or chicken mushrooms after with the broccoli or cauliflower.  Often add some cream or corn flower..
just blend it all , cook in bottom of steamer and steam broccoli or cauliflower on top.
Use stock from bones, skin of a Sainsbury grilled chicken plus a stock cube
makes 3+ meals and keeps my sugars in single digits.. (just;-)

Celery is a food that takes more calories to digest than it contains.. and is a good probiotic as is leek

Budgen bread isn't the tastiest but lasts forever and isn't too bad toasted.
I buy it on offer freeze and then I know I have some bread if I get a bread urge..
Mostly avoid bread now..  along with potatoes and most carbs.. except chocolate..

ASDA sell a Polish Rye bread with no additives.  That is also a great probiotic too and tastes rather nice toasted.  
The small slice is just big enough to have a sliced boiled egg on top.


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## Madeline (Dec 2, 2018)

Has anyone else tried flaxseed powder with any success?


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## Dave W (Dec 2, 2018)

I can't stand Burgen bread, but I guess it's a case of 'horses for courses.' and a matter of personal taste and choice.
Going off at a slight tangent, there's an amusing diaglogue between Boswell and Samuel Johnson regarding oats.


*Samuel Johnson*: In England we wouldn't think of eating oats. We only feed them to Horses.
*Boswell*: "Well, maybe that's why in England you have better horses, and in Scotland we have better men".
Conversation in response to Johnson criticising Boswell for the latter's Scottish habit of eating oats for breakfast.


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## travellor (Dec 2, 2018)

Madeline said:


> I got the low fat, plenty of ‘healthy’ carbs char too, plus a booklet to back up all the nonsense she spouted. I filed it in the recycling, someone will be wiping with it soon  She’s going to have kittens when she sees my food diary, but I’m only slightly overweight, and have abnormally low cholesterol, so I figure fat is my friend.
> 
> Working up to the hard stuff, it’s a bit of a shock after being a lifelong Galaxy lover.



Why? you're a grown up.
The nurse sees thousands of diabetics.
She'll help the ones she can, she'll still get paid for the ones she can't.
If you ignore her advice, she simply marks it on your record that she told you, and what your response was.
Then moves onto the next patient (early, so it actually helps her out to be honest).


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## Madeline (Dec 2, 2018)

I’m not so sure, it’s at our GP surgery - she’s just one of the nurses there, and where I live it’s still very rural, 1950’s-ish. It’s all very personal, everyone knows everyone, etc. Give you an example, when I felt lightheaded, which tripped this all off, my GP popped round three times that day. 

And she’s so in your face.


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## robert@fm (Dec 2, 2018)

Karsten said:


> Celery is a food that takes more calories to digest than it contains


I suspect that this is an urban myth. Anyone up for debunking it?


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## Madeline (Dec 2, 2018)

robert@fm said:


> I suspect that this is an urban myth. Anyone up for debunking it?



Me, it’s the devil’s food, I can’t imagine he’d be so dumb as to make it negative calorie.


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## robert@fm (Dec 2, 2018)

Auntie says, no such thing as negative-calorie food.


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## Eddy Edson (Dec 2, 2018)

Madeline said:


> Has anyone else tried flaxseed powder with any success?



I just figure you get the same kind of thing with chia seeds, and you don't have to grind them.


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## Madeline (Dec 2, 2018)

Auntie must be right. Auntie would _never_ lie to us


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## Madeline (Dec 2, 2018)

Eddy Edson said:


> I just figure you get the same kind of thing with chia seeds, and you don't have to grind them.



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5122190/


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## mikeyB (Dec 2, 2018)

Linseed oil goes on cricket bats as far as I’m concerned. And soya is cow food, and destroying rain forests. And I’m not a bloody budgie so I don’t eat seeds. I am at one with Eddy’s sentiments. Just because something looks like food, doesn’t mean it’s healthy. 

Most seeds don’t get digested. That’s how the plants have evolved. So most pass through undisturbed, and get pooped out in a nutritious growth medium.


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## Madeline (Dec 2, 2018)

Damn, I have 500g of the stuff arriving tomorrow


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## Sharron1 (Dec 2, 2018)

Amigo said:


> I take a totally different view to this. The nurse (not a DSN), I see annually, has no interest in what I’m eating and never asks. She just says, ‘it’s your diabetes, do what works for you’.
> I certainly wouldn’t be eating only half a chocolate eclair as they’re quite low carb relatively speaking.
> If someone questioned me for testing, I’d be asking them what it had to do with them!
> 
> It’s our body, our condition and our consequences so never accept medical tyranny!


You are a braver soul than I am ... Although I am learning fast and may well use the phrase medical tyranny


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## mikeyB (Dec 3, 2018)

I agree, Sharron, it is a nice turn of phrase, one I’m fond of, but beware, Amigo and I have more important things to worry about than pesky diabetes.


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## Karsten (Dec 3, 2018)

robert@fm said:


> I suspect that this is an urban myth. Anyone up for debunking it?


https://www.foodandwine.com/fwx/foo...eating-celery-burns-more-calories-it-contains


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## Madeline (Dec 3, 2018)

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-...t-answers/negative-calorie-foods/faq-20058260

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative-calorie_food

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...eating-weight-loss-negative-a8500021.html?amp

Just because something is on the internet doesn’t make it true, unless it’s on a reputable site that publishes peer reviewed articles.


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## robert@fm (Dec 3, 2018)

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet" -- Abraham Lincoln


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## Amigo (Dec 3, 2018)

mikeyB said:


> I agree, Sharron, it is a nice turn of phrase, one I’m fond of, but beware, Amigo and I have more important things to worry about than pesky diabetes.



In fairness that’s true Mike to the extent that at my last review the nurse actually said, ‘I hardly dare mention the diabetes, it seems the least of your worries!’

Incidentally, I still take it very seriously.


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## chaoticcar (Dec 3, 2018)

The Hovis low carb bread is lower in carbs than Burgen  I think but it doesn't taste much better ! My daughter in Congo wanted some paperwork sent over with a friend and I asked if there was anything else important that I could send Coffee and chocolate she said because what is more important than Coffee and chocolate !!
That's my girl 
   Carol


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## trophywench (Dec 3, 2018)

Most classic casseroles and sauces (the savoury kind I stress) have chopped celery sweated down with chopped onions and all sorts of other ingredients sweated down in them before you start adding the thing it actually is - whether soup or a casserole.

I utterly adore braised or just steamed celery hearts - but find crunching a stick of raw celery as waste of mandible-power - 97% of what you can buy now is both green and stringy - nobody earths it up to blanch it these days.  You can't get 'salad' celery anywhere in France anyway - only cooking celery - floppy and 'bolted',

I don't mind Burgen bread, but not being that desperate to save carbs (with my T1 it's never been an issue - if I fancy over-eating soething or another, I certainly wouldn't bother with any sort of stodge) so if I want bread I have whatever sort I happen to fancy.  Pete's not keen on B either and he has no health issues involving carbs anyway. 

Not keen on radishes - instant heartburn - spinach I like, Pete doesn't so we don't bother, mushrooms we both like  and I can't remember if there was anything else.   Other people are a bit weird I think sometimes though.  

Someone had brought a home made carrot cake to a weekend gathering we came back from today.  Pete went to make the tea and I said I'd get him some cake -  thin wedge of the carrot cake and ditto Victoria sponge - duly sandwiched with jam and buttercream - fine there, travels much better that fresh cream of course when people are coming from all over the UK.

So because I'm fond of it - I had a small bite of the pointy side of the carrot cake.  Yukkk! - that was sandwiched with buttercream too!  Just WRONG.  The cake on it's own was far better.  If you do want to sandwich it - there needs to be the tangy taste of cream cheese in there to complement he sweet part.


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## Dave W (Dec 3, 2018)

As @trophywench has said 'salad' celery which is nice and crunchy is pretty rare to find these days which is a shame as I like a stick filled with peanut butter. The self blanching variety is horribly chewy raw, but I love it when made into celery, apple and blue stilton soup.


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## Ljc (Dec 3, 2018)

Dave W said:


> As @trophywench has said 'salad' celery which is nice and crunchy is pretty rare to find these days which is a shame as I like a stick filled with peanut butter. The self blanching variety is horribly chewy raw, but I love it when made into celery, apple and blue stilton soup.


I love celery but not the stringy stuff the sell nowadays, filled with either peanut butter or caramelised onion Hummus yum.


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## Chris Hobson (Jan 12, 2019)

I only discovered burgen bread a few weeks ago, it was mentioned as an aside on a forum post here. I tried it and I really like it. My favourite bread up to now was always Kingsmill wholemeal. Burgen bread has about a third less carbs and about 50% more fibre than the Kingsmill. I realised that I was hooked when my supply was getting low and I was worried that I was going to run out before my next visit to the shops. I always throw the loaf ends into the chicken run and the chickens seem to love it too. they like to peck the seeds out of it first before eating the rest.

I also like mushrooms spinach and celery. In fact I like most things, I have very varied tastes. In fact the only things that I can't stomach are dates and beetroot, both things that my mother ate by the ton when she was pregnant. The chocolate that I like is the dark stuff with chili in it. The Moser Roth stuff from Aldi is really good because it come in packs of five mini bars. The high cocoa stuff has about half the carbs of the regular stuff but it is pretty icky.


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## SkinnyLiz (Jan 13, 2019)

Burgen bread is ok, cant say I really like it as it has that manufactured bread texture, but as toast its quite acceptable.  Best not to drop it into your soup though, goes horribly soggy in seconds. 
Like mushrooms, radish and brussels sprouts, tolerate celery in small amounts, but the chefs favourite - beetroot- cant stand it.


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## Northerner (Jan 13, 2019)

SkinnyLiz said:


> but the chefs favourite - beetroot- cant stand it.


I hate beetroot on its own, as I've probably said many times here, but it is glorious in a chocolate cake!


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## SkinnyLiz (Jan 13, 2019)

That is an idea.  Have been thinking of chocolate cake with ground almonds, filled with cream, but not been able to decide on sugar substitiute.  Or if sugar would be ok ? What do you use for sugar?


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## Northerner (Jan 13, 2019)

SkinnyLiz said:


> That is an idea.  Have been thinking of chocolate cake with ground almonds, filled with cream, but not been able to decide on sugar substitiute.  Or if sugar would be ok ? What do you use for sugar?


Unfortunately I haven't made such a cake since before diagnosis, and at that time I just used ordinary sugar  The beetroot adds moistness and body, same as using courgettes in muffins


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## Sally W (Jan 13, 2019)

SkinnyLiz said:


> That is an idea.  Have been thinking of chocolate cake with ground almonds, filled with cream, but not been able to decide on sugar substitiute.  Or if sugar would be ok ? What do you use for sugar?


I use xylitol as I find it tastes the same as sugar; particularly in chocolate cake. Total Sweet is the brand name.


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## mikeyB (Jan 13, 2019)

Beetroot adds sweetness as well as moistness. I can’t eat any xylitol, it gives me gut ache and the squits.


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## Sally W (Jan 13, 2019)

mikeyB said:


> Beetroot adds sweetness as well as moistness. I can’t eat any xylitol, it gives me gut ache and the squits.


I’m lucky I. I get away with it.....ate cake with half a jar of marmalade made with erythritol once & a different story


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## SkinnyLiz (Jan 13, 2019)

keep looking at the sweeteners.... dont like the sound of any of them.


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## Eddy Edson (Jan 13, 2019)

SkinnyLiz said:


> keep looking at the sweeteners.... dont like the sound of any of them.



I don't like the sugar alcohols generally. They do actually impact my BG to a surprising extent - apparently the effect is very individual & seems to depend on the mysteries of the individual gut biome. And they make my gut unhappy.


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## AdeV (Jan 13, 2019)

I must be one of those weird people - I like pretty much anything. I do draw the line at Stinky Tofu, though - a Chinese delicacy apparently. Yeah, one that smells a bit like raw sewage and, I suspect, tastes not dissimilar too. My good lady wife bought some for me to try, I refused it after the first bite (I'll try anything once, so long as it wasn't an insect at any point in time). She scoffed the lot and had a dose of the trots afterwards. Serves her right! Delicacy my a*se.



Madeline said:


> I’ll be gritting my teeth and trying cloud bread at this rate.
> 
> The single most disgusting thing I have ever tried was a Slimming World orange  ‘cake’. I use the term cake in the loosest possible way, because when it was cooked and tried it turned out that I’d basically made an orange flavoured oven baked washing up sponge. It was absolutely rank.


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## robert@fm (Jan 14, 2019)

^Pun not intended?


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## Sally W (Jan 14, 2019)

SkinnyLiz said:


> keep looking at the sweeteners.... dont like the sound of any of them.


Maybe try organic liquid stevia. It has a slightly bitter, liquorice taste which is why I don’t use it apart from in drinks


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## SkinnyLiz (Jan 14, 2019)

and maybe not, dont really like liquorice, but thanks for replying.


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