# Illnesses associated with lifestyle cost the NHS £11bn



## Matt Cycle

Health problems related to poor diet, drinking and smoking are costing the NHS in England more than £11bn each year, officials say.

Public Health England (PHE) says that unless they are tackled more effectively the NHS will become unaffordable.

It warns conditions such as diabetes and smoking-related bronchitis are a new and untreatable epidemic.

But the town of Fleetwood, Lancashire, plans to tackle these problems head on......

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37451773


Er, diabetes? Not Type 1 it aint.


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## Northerner

Nor Type 2 - it is NOT a 'lifestyle' disease, people don't choose to become Type 2, and even though weight is a significant factor in its development in many but certainly not all cases, it can't be the most important since most overweight people do NOT develop Type 2 diabetes  There is evidence that being genetically susceptible to Type 2 may even be what causes the weight gain. Of course, you can't explain all this in a soundbite. Yes, people should take responsibility for their health, but when so much 'healthy' stuff on the market is probably what is causing the problem (high sugar/low fat) successive governments should also take responsibility for their lax regulation of food companies.


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## Copepod

Healthy lifestyle does have a role in managing type 1 diabetes, which I have, and type 2 diabetes, which I don't. 
I doubt I'd have achieved 20 years with no complications if I didn't keep fit, eat sensibly, drink alcohol modestly, continue to avoid smoking etc. I have to work to prevent my weight creeping up, as I don't want to put excess street on my metabolism, cardiovascular system, musculo skeletal system (mainly knees and hips) etc.


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## Andy HB

I agree with what you said, Alan. But from my perspective lifestyle is a very large contributor to my diabetes symptoms.

I really don't think those with type 2 diabetes should think their diabetes was inevitable irrespective of how they live their lives (although for some perhaps it is?). Also, as you correctly say, many people don't develop diabetes even when their lifestyle is off the wall. 

I would be very angry with anyone who suggested that my lifestyle prior to diagnosis was some sort of guilt trip for me and that it didn't apply to others (I mention this because someone actually said that to me many years ago!). Well, I know my lifestyle is crucial for me to keep my levels under control and avoid complications (even if I'm not perfect in that regard).

Andy


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## mikeyB

Blimey, what a load of nit picking miseries you are. I think it's admirable that a town is reacting positively to what are shameful health stats, more power to their elbow. If they can turn those stats around, it'll save health services millions.

That said, two good things have come out of Fleetwood, Fisherman's Friends, and the tram to Blackpool.


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## Northerner

mikeyB said:


> Blimey, what a load of nit picking miseries you are. I think it's admirable that a town is reacting positively to what are shameful health stats, more power to their elbow. If they can turn those stats around, it'll save health services millions.
> 
> That said, two good things have come out of Fleetwood, Fisherman's Friends, and the tram to Blackpool.


I've nothing against positive action, but I have seen how distressing the negative stereotyping of Type 2 can be, particularly given that it almost exclusively tars people as wholly responsible, and at the same time infers that it can be 'cured' by eating a 600 calorie diet for 3 weeks if only people could be bothered. Fine for those that can do it, but for the significant minority of those who have arrived at a diagnosis for different reasons it can be very upsetting and trigger depression and reluctance to seek help


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## Copepod

Another point is that Fleetwood isn't concerned only with diabetes (whichever type), but also cardiovascular and musculo skeletal systems, as I mentioned in my post (#3). Being normal weight, physically active and eating well (although there are many interpretations of "healthy eating") is protective for nearly all health issues. So, when a town tries to offer easier access to physical activity, a wider choice of eating options in cafes etc, that can only be good.


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## mikeyB

Aye, what Copeopd said. 

Education on the niceties of T2 can come later


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## Owen

Northerner said:


> I've nothing against positive action, but I have seen how distressing the negative stereotyping of Type 2 can be, particularly given that it almost exclusively tars people as wholly responsible, and at the same time infers that it can be 'cured' by eating a 600 calorie diet for 3 weeks if only people could be bothered. Fine for those that can do it, but for the significant minority of those who have arrived at a diagnosis for different reasons it can be very upsetting and trigger depression and reluctance to seek help


Does seem a bit draconian to starve people, did that not happen with T1 in the early 1900's


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## Copepod

Owen said:


> Does seem a bit draconian to starve people, did that not happen with T1 in the early 1900's


The 600 calorie a day diet is known as Newcastle Diet. Research has shown that some overweight people with type 2 diabetes can dramatically improve their blood glucose levels by following that course of action. Note I state "some" not "all", as that's what the research found. 
Before insulin became available in 1930s, the only treatment for people with type 1 diabetes was a diet with extremely low or no carbohydrate content.


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## grovesy

Copepod said:


> The 600 calorie a day diet is known as Newcastle Diet. Research has shown that some overweight people with type 2 diabetes can dramatically improve their blood glucose levels by following that course of action. Note I state "some" not "all", as that's what the research found.
> Before insulin became available in 1930s, the only treatment for people with type 1 diabetes was a diet with extremely low or no carbohydrate content.


Yeah even the Professor says it is not for everyone!


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## Owen

I find it common for fit and healthy people to criticise those that are not. Well I was fit and healthy until I was wrongly diagnosed T2.
The medication I took without questioning if it was right for me. Metformin, Gliclizide, Canegliflozin, Simvastatin. They tried them all. I became very ill, withdrawn, depressed, put on weight.
I lost several jobs, even careers. 
It does not take a degree (I have two at Masters, I am happy to post certificates), to drag a draconian system and prove that it works for some people for a short time.
If more effort were given to proper diagnosis and providing 21st century support, instead of trial and error methodology based on best stereotypical  fit. Then we would have less people stressing an already underfunded, under supported medical system.
Diabetes is one of the easiest illnesses to self manage with correct support, education and technology provided without need for the individuals to have to beg for what they deserve to have provided.

Rant Over


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## Andy HB

I think it is also down to what information people with type 2 (I'll stick with that because that is what I have some experience of) can absorb and understand. It may be something of an oversimplification, but I think that many people don't actually 'get it' (horrid phrase, but at least I pronounced my t's). It was something of a shock to me when I was finally able to wave goodbye to my consultant after 18 months or so with him telling me that I was something of a rarity. He was far more used to people not really progressing at all.

But whether it is because I am just lucky and my diabetes responded to what I was doing or whether people just don't want to change anything? I cannot, in all honesty, say (I haven't talked to them all!).

Andy


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## Northerner

Andy HB said:


> I think it is also down to what information people with type 2 (I'll stick with that because that I was I have some experience of) can absorb and understand. It may be something of an oversimplification, but I think that many people don't actually 'get it' (horrid phrase, but at least I pronounced my t's). It was something of a shock to me when I was finally able to wave goodbye to my consultant after 18 months or so with him telling me that I was something of a rarity. He was far more used to people not really progressing at all.
> 
> But whether it is because I am just lucky and my diabetes responded to what I was doing or whether people just don't want to change anything? I cannot, in all honesty, say (I haven't talked to them all!).
> 
> Andy


I think the (admittedly, anecdotal) evidence we see here is that even highly motivated people are being actively dissuaded from taking their diabetes management seriously, beyond following a 'healthy' diet which is either not explained or if detail given, is often catastrophic  What chance then for those who never question the 'no need to test, take these pills, it'll only get worse, it's your own fault why should I care' attitude of many healthcare professionals? Of course, there will always be a significant number who ignore advice and take a fatalistic view of their situation and carry on as before. 

What is also rarely pointed out is the fact that it isn't diabetes that is costing all this money, it's the consequences of poor and/or inadequate care that lead to hugely expensive and life-altering complications


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## HOBIE

I have a good mate who was diagnosed T2. He was ex army & listened to advice. Stopped drinking, ate miles better, walked the legs off his poor dog & now OFF all medication for his T2.  I know some T2 are worse than others but you have to try & help yourself too


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## Owen

HOBIE said:


> I have a good mate who was diagnosed T2. He was ex army & listened to advice. Stopped drinking, ate miles better, walked the legs off his poor dog & now OFF all medication for his T2.  I know some T2 are worse than others but you have to try & help yourself too


My sister was T1, abused her insulin, followed no strict diet, died at 45. Can we stop generalising about T2. It's becoming offensive. I am ex army, with enough codeine, I could still complete a CFT faster than your average 18 year old. Luckily I am not T2, but I had to put up with this nonsense longer than I should have, before a correct diagnosis.


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## HOBIE

Sorry to here about your sister owen.  I think my mate has done very well & it was partly due to his Army trained head that he worked so hard to come off medication for T2. Is that not good ?


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## Matt Cycle

Going back to the original article any sort of initiative to improve the health of the population has to be a good thing.  In my experience most people will carry on doing what they're doing - diet wise, smoking, drinking, exercise etc., until something goes wrong.  It's all in an individual's control to choose what to eat, whether to smoke, how much to drink, whether to exercise.  When it does go wrong it's left to someone else to pick up the pieces.  To try and stop it reaching that stage can only be good.

As for the misinformation in the media regarding diabetes, types and causes then I think more could be done by Diabetes UK (@Hannah DUK ).  I know there has been initiatives and campaigns to try and explain this (Smile campaign?) but it clearly is not working well enough judging from some of the articles we see.  Speaking from a T1 point of view, I'm not a 'look at me' person but I have felt mild embarrassment telling people I'm a diabetic due to the negative associations with the word.  There can't be any other medical condition over which you have no control in getting it and yet feel like that.  I will sometimes try and explain my own condition if people are willing to listen but I find it difficult enough explaining that, never mind the thought of trying to be a spokesperson for all diabetes types of which I wouldn't know enough about to explain fully anyway.


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## Owen

Matt Cycle said:


> Going back to the original article any sort of initiative to improve the health of the population has to be a good thing.  In my experience most people will carry on doing what they're doing - diet wise, smoking, drinking, exercise etc., until something goes wrong.  It's all in an individual's control to choose what to eat, whether to smoke, how much to drink, whether to exercise.  When it does go wrong it's left to someone else to pick up the pieces.  To try and stop it reaching that stage can only be good.
> 
> As for the misinformation in the media regarding diabetes, types and causes then I think more could be done by Diabetes UK (@Hannah DUK ).  I know there has been initiatives and campaigns to try and explain this (Smile campaign?) but it clearly is not working well enough judging from some of the articles we see.  Speaking from a T1 point of view, I'm not a 'look at me' person but I have felt mild embarrassment telling people I'm a diabetic due to the negative associations with the word.  There can't be any other medical condition over which you have no control in getting it and yet feel like that.  I will sometimes try and explain my own condition if people are willing to listen but I find it difficult enough explaining that, never mind the thought of trying to be a spokesperson for all diabetes types of which I wouldn't know enough about to explain fully anyway.


Sorry I thought this forum was a place of support. If we as DIABETICS judge others without ever walking in their shoes, then we are no better than anyone else.

I am a diabetic, that will never change. I will have wake up and deal with this every day. I choose to keep myself under as good a control as I can. But others have a much bigger struggle than I do. Maybe it is  a lack of self discipline, maybe it is socioeconomic. You no what, I don't care. When I arrive at their door because they are in a bad way, I am only interested, in what I can do to help.

I am a diabetic and proud to be one. Lets all show a little more compassion for all our betty brethren regardless of how they got there. Then perhaps the rest of the world will slowly follow suit.


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## HOBIE

I am sorry you feel like that owen but I was once in hospital in Cumbria. I was in bed for a few days & felt like some exercise. I walked to the front door & back up the stairs. The bloke in the bed next to me was in a bad way & had had both of his legs amputated. He asked me to push him to the front door which I did(thinking I was helping him).  He got there & immediately lit a ciggy !  I found out later that it was due to smoking. I DID not sleep that nt.


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## Northerner

Owen said:


> I am a diabetic and proud to be one. Lets all show a little more compassion for all our betty brethren regardless of how they got there. Then perhaps the rest of the world will slowly follow suit.


Could not agree with you more @Owen - negative stereotyping of anyone achieves nothing.


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## Owen

HOBIE said:


> I am sorry you feel like that owen but I was once in hospital in Cumbria. I was in bed for a few days & felt like some exercise. I walked to the front door & back up the stairs. The bloke in the bed next to me was in a bad way & had had both of his legs amputated. He asked me to push him to the front door which I did(thinking I was helping him).  He got there & immediately lit a ciggy !  I found out later that it was due to smoking. I DID not sleep that nt.


That is his choice, you did not cause him to smoke. We cannot hold grudges because people may not meet our expectations. You just have to accept this sometimes. He might have started smoking due a stressful event or social pressure. Would you then deny him medical support because he will or cannot conform? It is sad, Sandra smoked, she also had other crippling disabilities from the age of 15, she was in a wheelchair. You know what, I can forgive all her "weaknesses". She had no life and the relief  or comfort that she got from food and nicotine I could never blame for.

Tolerance and support without judgement.


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## Matt Cycle

Owen said:


> Sorry I thought this forum was a place of support. If we as DIABETICS judge others without ever walking in their shoes, then we are no better than anyone else.
> 
> I am a diabetic, that will never change. I will have wake up and deal with this every day. I choose to keep myself under as good a control as I can. But others have a much bigger struggle than I do. Maybe it is  a lack of self discipline, maybe it is socioeconomic. You no what, I don't care. When I arrive at their door because they are in a bad way, I am only interested, in what I can do to help.
> 
> I am a diabetic and proud to be one. Lets all show a little more compassion for all our betty brethren regardless of how they got there. Then perhaps the rest of the world will slowly follow suit.



I think you've misunderstood as I've offered plenty of support and encouragement on the forum and I'm not sure I'd given the impression I was judging anyone.  My comment, regarding smoking, diet and being unwilling to change etc as I explained, was based on my life experience with work colleagues, friends etc.  I fully support them too as friends and colleagues.

I'm not sure I'd say I was proud to be a diabetic.  I've got it, unfortunately for me but have tried my damnedest to do my best to look after it - not always successfully but alright so far.  Personally I hope I show compassion to ALL PEOPLE regardless of race, creed, colour, whether healthy or ill, size, gender etc.


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## Andy HB

I agree.

Support comes in many forms. Sometimes comforting, other times telling home truths. But it should always be done with understanding.


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## Owen

Matt Cycle said:


> I think you've misunderstood as I've offered plenty of support and encouragement on the forum and I'm not sure I'd given the impression I was judging anyone.  My comment, regarding smoking, diet and being unwilling to change etc as I explained, was based on my life experience with work colleagues, friends etc.  I fully support them too as friends and colleagues.
> 
> I'm not sure I'd say I was proud to be a diabetic.  I've got it, unfortunately for me but have tried my damnedest to do my best to look after it - not always successfully but alright so far.  Personally I hope I show compassion to ALL PEOPLE regardless of race, creed, colour, whether healthy or ill, size, gender etc.


Never mind me, sometimes I get on my soapbox. I am sure that you are all that you say and I was already on a roll looking for heads.


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## Amigo

There is something of an inevitability (rightly or wrongly) in my view that in a socialised health system groaning at the seams with increasing expectations and a growing elderly population that doctors feel immense frustration. GP's in particular seem to be expected to be all and deliver all in the few minutes they have with each patient. Patients who may have entrenched attitudes, poor socio-economic backgrounds and decades of unhealthy addictions. Preventative and educative health care has fallen by the wayside and I despair of the often fatalistic attitude given to newly diagnosed diabetics. 
When I was diagnosed I fortunately had the wherewithal to research and learn and insist on certain interventions. Truth is many patients simply throw themselves into a system and type 2's in particular are denied the oppprtunity to be partners in their own care. I know so many diabetics who are utterly clueless and how can we be surprised when we still have medical staff pushing high carb diets and accepting results well over the threshold that lead to long term damage? People often simply cannot see the link between the food they've always eaten and poor health. They feel the guidance changes daily.

I don't have the answers to addressing poor lifestyle choices but I refuse to judge those who due to medical and nutritional ignorance and a period in time when smoking was actually advertised as 'desirable', now find themselves with conditions that thankfully we now know a great deal more about. 

It just seems that when resources get tight, society always looks for a scapegoat and at the moment diabetics are an easy target. 

That doesn't mean for one moment that I don't support the need for personal responsibility but I think we need to be very careful about health provision based on judgement, perceived worth and disgust. 

Rant over!


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## Owen

Amigo said:


> There is something of an inevitability (rightly or wrongly) in my view that in a socialised health system groaning at the seams with increasing expectations and a growing elderly population that doctors feel immense frustration. GP's in particular seem to be expected to be all and deliver all in the few minutes they have with each patient. Patients who may have entrenched attitudes, poor socio-economic backgrounds and decades of unhealthy addictions. Preventative and educative health care has fallen by the wayside and I despair of the often fatalistic attitude given to newly diagnosed diabetics.
> When I was diagnosed I fortunately had the wherewithal to research and learn and insist on certain interventions. Truth is many patients simply throw themselves into a system and type 2's in particular are denied the oppprtunity to be partners in their own care. I know so many diabetics who are utterly clueless and how can we be surprised when we still have medical staff pushing high carb diets and accepting results well over the threshold that lead to long term damage? People often simply cannot see the link between the food they've always eaten and poor health. They feel the guidance changes daily.
> 
> I don't have the answers to addressing poor lifestyle choices but I refuse to judge those who due to medical and nutritional ignorance and a period in time when smoking was actually advertised as 'desirable', now find themselves with conditions that thankfully we now know a great deal more about.
> 
> It just seems that when resources get tight, society always looks for a scapegoat and at the moment diabetics are an easy target.
> 
> That doesn't mean for one moment that I don't support the need for personal responsibility but I think we need to be very careful about health provision based on judgement, perceived worth and disgust.
> 
> Rant over!


You have put it so much more eloquently.


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## mikeyB

I agree with the sentiments expressed in more than one of these posts; a judgemental attitude is wrong. As Matt pointed out, it can be embarrassing to tell people you are diabetic because of all the media scorn heaped on the fat people who get it, perceiving no difference between type1 and 2, thin people who get type 2, and all the other flavours. Everybody gets it thrown at them. I actually think that the media just see diabetes as included in the metabolic syndrome (though they don't know it), along with CHD, Hypertension, plus smoking and drinking on top. I don't actually see diabetics as scapegoats, per se. 

And I've got the bonus condition of pancreatitis. Only a small proportion of chronic pancreatitis is caused by alcohol, but that is the ONLY cause that anybody remembers. So more scorn. 

Not all medical conditions are caused by lifestyle and living conditions, but a lot are, and it is these factors that they are looking at in Fleetwood. I don't  think they are going into this with any preconceptions other than things need to get better. Best of luck to 'em. They've been trying to do this in Glasgow for years. It's hard, long work.


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## Owen

I may in hindsight have come over as an activist, headstrong, radical even. @Matt Cycle, sorry I unloaded on you when you didn't deserve it.

A bit of background may explain but not excuse.

I had from the age of fifteen, a rather fanatical obsession with sports. Swim, run, triathlon, hockey, squash. This transcended to a military career, where I got to also take part in mountain warfare (very intensive). I did not smoke. I would like to think I was reasonably healthy. I then on leaving the forces became a keen equestrian, traveling the world and competing at various levels. 

When I became ill, it was a shock. I had only used pain relief to achieve results in assessments, covering up ache's and sprains. The catalyst for me was a bacterial infection. From this I am still recovering. 
I was immediately told I was type 2, s my age bmi and other evidence supported this short sighted diagnosis. My NHS BMI would have been excessive for over three decades of my adult life. I did get all the abuse that T2's have to suffer, i an active within the pre hospital care environment. I got fed up defending myself. 
I did not go against my medical support team, but also knew from my own medical training, that something was not right. 

I stopped taking all medication as a rebellion. LCHF, followed all the trend, tried it all. I became so ill. I did not even realise it. High fat and Crohns, do not play nice together. One day I was so ill that I rang my GP and after a heart to heart over the phone, he decided to listen and referred me to an endo.
I still smile at the report from the endo that mentions my BMI as being in the obese range. I have 32" waist.

Diabetes I know is caused by so many different reasons and manifests itself in so many different varieties. I will now stand up for anyone with any illness in the same way I was willing to die to defend my cohorts. Please don't think I am a radical, actually correct that. Maybe I am. But I am in your corner no matter what. @HOBIE sorry, I was hypocritical judging you on one statement. I do not and cannot know how your opinions have been formed.


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## Diabetes UK

I am a little late to the conversation but have read this thread with great interest.


I'm in agreement with all your valuable comments about leading by example, not making negative stereotyping and not passing judgement. The generalisations, judgements or a lack of understanding around diabetes can cause a lot frustrations and it is something we get a sense of frequently as an organisation, as some of you may feel on a personal level.
As you have so rightly mentioned @Owen - diabetes can be so varied in it's origin and people's experiences vary greatly. Unlike other health charities, we do face a slightly different issue, in that diabetes refers to 2 predominantly different types and many others, to which there are many misconceptions attached. 
Going back to your comment earlier @Matt Cycle about the media's part in this, the misinformation is certainly a frustration and something that we continue to work on improving. We always differentiate between the different types when discussing diabetes, and stress that being overweight is not a factor in Type 1 diabetes and not always a factor in the diagnosis of Type 2 .  It's frustrating when the media doesn’t make the differences between Type 1 and Type 2 clear, or focus's on only one of the risk factors of type 2, or when it is not made clear that a certain new diet or treatment will not necesssarily work for everyone, although it is wonderful to hear when these diets or treatments do work really well.  We frequently highlight these points and in any communications to the media, we include our Journalist Guide www.diabetes.org.uk/journalists-guide to try to ensure accurate coverage of the condition.
However, unfortunately we cannot dictate newspapers’ editorial policies and sadly on occasion, these types of mistakes make it into the final publication. Hopefully, changing people's perceptions and raising awareness about diabetes can happen and can be achieved through a number of ways, so, we continue to work towards this and other goals.


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## mikeyB

I assume the editors of newspapers have seen these guidelines, Hannah, but we still see egregious articles about the latest "miracle cure" for diabetes. You expect this sort of thing on the internet, which cannot be policed.

Have you ever contacted an editor with a request for correction? Has a correction or amendment ever been published? I only ask out of interest, not criticism.


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## Hazel

Thank you everyone who contributed to this thread, it made very interesting reading.

As a T2 on insulin, the number of times I have asked - on insulin, you must be T1, or something everyone on insulin hears, inject several times a day, I could nevet do that!!

Since diagnosis in '98, diabetic awareness has certainly improved, but it still has a LONG
way to go

Ps - one factor in this thread I did not hear anything about is stress affecting T2s


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## Copepod

The original article was not only about diabetes (of any type), but also other conditions such as bronchitis and cardiovascular problems, correlated with health behaviour such as smoking, being overweight, being unfit etc. Also, while being overweight / obese is only one of many risk factors for developing type 2 diabetes, being overweight / obese is also a risk factor for many other conditions, such as cardiovascular problems, compounding damage to joints caused by (mainly) osteoartritis, but othermusculo skeletal problems. We're very good on this forum at pointing out journalists' mistakes about diabetes types, treatments etc, but how many here are clear about eg the differences between osteo arthritis and rheumatoid arthritis?


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## Owen

Copepod said:


> The original article was not only about diabetes (of any type), but also other conditions such as bronchitis and cardiovascular problems, correlated with health behaviour such as smoking, being overweight, being unfit etc. Also, while being overweight / obese is only one of many risk factors for developing type 2 diabetes, being overweight / obese is also a risk factor for many other conditions, such as cardiovascular problems, compounding damage to joints caused by (mainly) osteoartritis, but othermusculo skeletal problems. We're very good on this forum at pointing out journalists' mistakes about diabetes types, treatments etc, but how many here are clear about eg the differences between osteo arthritis and rheumatoid arthritis?


Remember in balance that all of these conditions can be the underlying reason that causes weight gain, this is often omitted in these reports.


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## Andy HB

Owen said:


> Remember in balance that all of these conditions can be the underlying reason that causes weight gain, this is often omitted in these reports.



Would it not be truer to suggest that they may cause additional weight gain?

From personal experience with type 2 diabetes, I am pretty sure that my initial weight gain was self-inflicted. However, later on, I can see the argument that weight gain might have been possible due to the higher levels of insulin floating around in my system. But, when the insulin resistance really kicked in, I actually lost weight just before diagnosis (not sure how much but could have been at least two stone).


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## Copepod

I was careful to use the word "correlated", which means associated with. I did not say that weight gain casued these problems, nor did I say that these problems cause weight gain.


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## Owen

Andy HB said:


> Would it not be truer to suggest that they may cause additional weight gain?
> 
> From personal experience with type 2 diabetes, I am pretty sure that my initial weight gain was self-inflicted. However, later on, I can see the argument that weight gain might have been possible due to the higher levels of insulin floating around in my system. But, when the insulin resistance really kicked in, I actually lost weight just before diagnosis (not sure how much but could have been at least two stone).


Trying not be too specific, but some anti inflammatory treatments, stress, socioeconomic, peer pressure, education can all directly or indirectly cause weight gain. There is some research that suggests that a common history of feeling hungry in some pre diabetes cases. Could this be a bit "chicken and egg"?


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## Owen

Copepod said:


> I was careful to use the word "correlated", which means associated with. I did not say that weight gain casued these problems, nor did I say that these problems cause weight gain.


Perhaps I should have used the word could instead of can. I do understand correlation. I also understand that it is only reliable when efficacy is applied. Plagiarism is to copy another persons work, research is to copy many.
There is correlation, that has suggested that rice is a major contributor to T2, due to the number of Chinese people afflicted.


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## HOBIE

Owen said:


> That is his choice, you did not cause him to smoke. We cannot hold grudges because people may not meet our expectations. You just have to accept this sometimes. He might have started smoking due a stressful event or social pressure. Would you then deny him medical support because he will or cannot conform? It is sad, Sandra smoked, she also had other crippling disabilities from the age of 15, she was in a wheelchair. You know what, I can forgive all her "weaknesses". She had no life and the relief  or comfort that she got from food and nicotine I could never blame for.
> 
> Tolerance and support without judgement.


I was not stopping him from smoking infarct helping him !  I can not understand his & your head. Theirs a bloke having his legs taken off & your on about stress.  I would go properly mad if I had my legs missing through something as stopping them ?


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## Owen

HOBIE said:


> I can not understand his & your head


Let's try not to get personal


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## AlisonM

I'm overweight, I have been since I stopped growing up the way. My weight has slowly increased over the years no matter what I do. My family has a history of obesity, hypertension, high cholesterol and strokes but no history of diabetes. I am the only diabetic in my family, I have hypotension, allergies too numerous to mention, chronic anaemia, RA, ME and so on. I did have acquired Addison's as a result of years on steroids for Excema and the RA, but that's gone since I'm off them. I have been active all my life, a real sports nut. That is, until the RA really kicked up a notch a few years ago and I was told I have Osteo as well. Nowadays, I can barely walk but then, I swam, dived, sailed, rode horses (point to point when younger), skied, skated, climbed mountains (I have one Munro left that I'll never bag now and it really annoys me) and hill walked. I don't drink or smoke though I've done both in the past, stopped smoking 35 years ago and haven't drunk alcohol since 2001, I never did drink much because dad was an addict and I didn't want to follow his example. My diet has always been pretty healthy, though I now realise there may have been a few too many carbs and far too much fruit.

I'm not a typical anything and get a mite het up when anyone tries to fit me in their pigeon holes. I have always tried to avoid doing that to anyone else but feel utterly helpless against the tide of hysteria whipped up in the media. It's shameful in my eyes that having something wrong with you (whether or not it's visible) is becoming a crime and no-one seems to know how to reverse that when the PTBs think it's a great wheeze as part of their dismantling of the NHS.

Since diagnosis, I've bumped up against so many so called professionals who are anything but in their behaviour towards me, just because I appear to fit a certain stereotype. I love overturning their assumptions by talking about this dive or the view from up that mountain, I use Kilimanjaro usually. One of the reason's I love this place so much is the inclusiveness and total lack of both condescension and condemnation. I wish, oh how I wish everyone could behave like this out in the real world.


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## mikeyB

Aye, Alison. Size, shape, colour, race, we don't care. It's the person inside that we communicate with. The media don't care about the person inside, they objectify. Sod em, we have it right.


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## Diabetes UK

mikeyB said:


> I assume the editors of newspapers have seen these guidelines, Hannah, but we still see egregious articles about the latest "miracle cure" for diabetes. You expect this sort of thing on the internet, which cannot be policed.
> 
> Have you ever contacted an editor with a request for correction? Has a correction or amendment ever been published? I only ask out of interest, not criticism.



Yes absolutely, we have and we do challenge bad reporting. Initially we brief writers with information and request a chance to view before publishing. Once published, if there are factual errors, we go back to the writer to ask for corrections. If they fail to do so, we escalate this to the editor. Followign that, if still required, we’d complain to the regulator.


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