# Hi, has anyone tried the Newcastle diet, lost the weight and still not got Type 2 diabetes into remission?



## Jeldyjel (Aug 31, 2020)

Hi everyone,

I went onto a VLCD diet in Jan 2020, and after loosing the 15 KG was quite pleased with myself! (obviously)

I saw most of my readings show in the normal range and my last HBAC reading was 66. in March

Since the. I have been eating sensibly, but cant seem to get my morning fast reading to get into the pre diabetes range.

I guess that after having type 2 for 22 years I cant expect miracles?

Still keeping off my weight, and eating sensibly overall, but guess that's it? Be interested in hearing about other peoples experiences after having Type 2 fort so long.


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## Ljc (Aug 31, 2020)

Welcome to the forum @Jeldyjel .  Well done on the weight loss, it’s obviously helped a lot with your diabetes control. 
I’ve never tried that diet.  T2 is not only about being overweight , their are quite a few other factors involved including genes, we have quite a few folks on here who have always been slim but still developed T2 , we also have some folks who have managed to put their T2  into remission by vastly reducing carbohydrate intake early on in their diagnosis. 

When you say you are eating sensibly, what are you eating . 

A little more info will be helpful  for us give you the best advise.
What diabetes meds if any are you on.


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## rebrascora (Aug 31, 2020)

Hi and welcome.

Congratulations on your fantastic weight loss. When you say VLCD I am guessing the C stands for Calories rather than carbs? You say that you now eat sensibly but do you have any idea how many grams of carbohydrate you eat in a day? 
I'm not sure if you are aware but it is all carbs which are broken down into glucose in our digestive tract and absorbed into the bloodstream. That means breakfast cereals, fruit, anything made from grains, like bread, pasta, rice, couscous and root vegetables like potato and sweet potato as well as the obvious sweet stuff from cakes and biscuits. Even wholemeal varieties cause many diabetics a problem and need to be reduced or avoided. Do you have a BG meter as many of us here on the forum find that an invaluable tool in tailoring our diet to manage our BG levels and attain a better HbA1c. 

I am however inclined to wonder if the people who don't succeed with these measures may actually be LADA rather than Type 2.


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## grovesy (Aug 31, 2020)

I believe they did not have anyone who had been diagnosed longer than 10 years in the study, and they dont understand why some failed .
I personally am at my lowest and have stable weight in years. I still do not behiis pure weight related.
Some other researchers say it is not on condtion but a range that require differnt approaches.


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## Eddy Edson (Aug 31, 2020)

In the Newcastle studies, "nonresponders" did tend to be people with longer-standing T2D, so I guess your guess is probably correct, unfortunately.


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## Jeldyjel (Aug 31, 2020)

HI it was very low calorie diet. But before that I was eating Paleo and most carbs were dreams that once was for teh last 5 years or so. Indeed before this I did try the zero carb diet for 4 months and lost the same amount of weight, but that really wasn't sustainable, at least for me!

so I guess I should be pleased that my readings are mainly non diabetic during teh day, and se if I can increase my exercise routine!

use my meter 2 hours after food and first thing in morning to see how I am doing, fingers still working and aren't like pin cushions yet. Previously I had not been so good on meter readings, this the first attempt I have at looking at food, wight and readings. I have lived abroad for past 30 years so this is the first time I have had access to UK resources' nd since I no longer work thought I would try and see if I cant get myself straightened out!


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## rebrascora (Aug 31, 2020)

I am not sure zero carbs is achievable or healthy (most if not all veggies contain a small amount of carbohydrate and so does fruit) but very low carb certainly is not just sustainable but enjoyable. The key is to eat more fat and not be frightened of it. I know it is a bit different for me as I am Type 1 because I need to inject insulin to survive but my body produces small amounts of glucose from protein and fat to keep me going and I have recently started upping my exercise and activity and that is making a huge difference in lowering my levels and reducing my insulin requirements. Not that I do anything overly strenuous but a brisk daily 4 mile walk/yomp/jog is showing radical results in the last 4 days.


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## Lindarose (Aug 31, 2020)

Hi Jeldyjel 
I was fortunate enough to take but in the ReTune trial at Newcastle To see if I could reverse my diabetes. I’ve posted about this before and don’t want to be repetitive however feel it may help answer your question in light of my results. 
This could possibly apply to you. I started off weighing just over 8 and 1/2 stone and lost just over a stone with guidance and regular checks at Newcastle. 
At the beginning the fat on my internal organs was quite low. Measured with MRI scans And at the end it was even lower. Prof Taylor and the team suspected I may not reverse things despite doing everything as per the trial. Probably because they internal fat is often a factor of type 2.
they took many blood samples and one was sent to Exeter where I was tested for MODY.
Bearing in mind I’m now 63 I was quite surprised to find that I’m actually not type 2 at all but MODY! 
There are several types and my subtype is called monogenetic and means my levels naturally stay above normal but not High enough to cause problems. except when pregnant which isn’t happening anymore for me! 
I think although this is quite a rare type of diabetes it’s not routinely tested for. So if I hadn’t took part in the research I would not have known and would still be taking metformin iwhich is unnecessary.
So the genetics do play quite a big part in all this.  I wonder how many slim type 2s arnt actually type 2?


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## Jeldyjel (Aug 31, 2020)

wow, MODY was new to me, so an interesting read for later I think!
I was diagnosed in Korea and had teh news broken to me that I was type 2 because I was over 40, overweight and didn't exercise! Quite annoying as I went to the gym 5 days a week and had been doing so since I was 25, I was just over 40 by a few months, but had to admit that the weight thing was probably true!


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## trophywench (Aug 31, 2020)

... in Korea where the typical diet you were eating was what Western bodies are not all that used to consuming the majority of the time?   Or not?

I was going to ask what actual tests were done to 100% confirm you are T2 - so much the same as others have commented.

The thing with testing is to test both immediately before starting to eat and then again 2 hours after eating whatever it was to see how much your BG has increased.  The 'ideal' results would be between 4 and 5 prior and no more than an increase of up to 3' extra.

To see what's occurring overnight you need to test before bed and then again before a foot hits the floor after waking the next day.  A non-diabetic body drops lower during the night, amply confirmed by regular night shift workers who frequently get an attack of the munchies at that time; roughly between 2.30 and 3.30am and which used to be termed 'the suicide hour' by medics doing their time in A&E.  (Not at all PC these days of course, similar to the term 'Ash cash', which was well known not all that long ago but there you go.)

Then typically the body starts to increase the BG prior to waking (from the stores we all keep in our liver) to enable us to go forth and hunt the woolly mammoth/gather seeds and berries to feed us and our family so it's a retained primaeval instinct we all still have.  To negate this effect you can try eating something small immediately prior to climbing into bed - a combination of fat protein and carb is suggested, eg a low carb biscuit say Tuc cracker or a Nairn's mini oat cake, with butter and a sliver of cheese - and see if that works.  That effect's known as Dawn Phenomenon.  Identify it first before treating it though!

Alternatively it may be more like 'foot hits the floor phenomenon' - in which case that typically stops when you eat so if there's a delay between rising and brekkie, have something really small, matters not what it is, to temporarily fool the body that it has broken it's fast and try and stop the increase in it's tracks.


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## Drummer (Aug 31, 2020)

After decades of being pushed to go on low fat low calorie diets I now find that although I see around 7 after eating (I check) I am still at the top end of normal Hba1c. I think something was broken, as each time I went back to low carb it took longer to get back to normal levels of energy. I eat two meals a day, usually and find I do best eating early and late. I have about 10 gm of carbs at breakfast as that seems to work best.


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## everydayupsanddowns (Aug 31, 2020)

Welcome to the forum @Jeldyjel

Well done on your terrific weight loss!

Hope some suggestions from forum members can improve your glucose profile still further  - though it sounds like you are getting lots of in-range readings when you are checking

I would expect your next HbA1c to have come down further

I believe @ColinUK and @zuludog are or were following the Newcastle/800 cal plan?


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## Jeldyjel (Sep 1, 2020)

Hi, thank you all, will look at the suggestions and keep at it, if nothing else loosing the weight has made me feel fitter and healthier. My readings are in the non diabetic one for most of the day, and I will have to just keep at it.

I appreciate all fo the feedback, many thanks!


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## ianf0ster (Sep 3, 2021)

Jeldyjel said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> ................................................
> 
> ...


Hi. I would just like to point out that you only mention your Fasting BG as being too high. So as @trophywench says  this is likely caused by FotF or Dawn Phenomenon. And it is for this reason that the fasting BG readings are usually the last to return to the normal range. I my HbA1C has been in the pre-diabetic, then the normal non-diabetic range for 2 yrs, yet my fasting BG can be as high as 7.8 mmol and I have never found it below 6.9

It takes time for the liver to adjust to your new normal BG levels and stop trying to help quite so much to give you the energy to go and hunt or gather your first meal like a cave dweller.

I find that( back when I still ate breakfast, the highest BG of the day was just before breakfast and an almost zero carb meal of eggs or cheese was all it took to make it drop.(at least a little).


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## trophywench (Sep 3, 2021)

@ianf0ster  - person you are replying to hasn't been seen for 12 months.


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