# Diet drinks in bars and restaurants



## SacredHeart (Jun 4, 2009)

Now, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm personally not a huge purveyor of alcoholic drinks. So one thing I've been finding increasingly frustrating is the lack of diet drink options in bars and restaurants when I've been out and about. So far it seems that my options boil down to either water or diet coke. Or diet coke...or water. 

It seems to me in light of the general way we're being encouraged to cut back on sugar all the time (overall, not just diabetics), and that there's such a push to reduce binge drinking, drink driving, etc, etc, that bars and restaurants would do well to offer a wider range of low/no sugar options. It would benefit a lot of people, not just us.

A friend of mine suggested approaching The One Show with this, as Dominic Littlewood might be sympathetic towards the cause. I know it's not necessarily going to get picked up, but you never know what might come of it - I mean, look at the difference making your voice heard made to the Change 4 Life advertising!

Would anyone else be interested in trying to approach this with me, or am I chasing a lost cause do you think?


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## Steff (Jun 4, 2009)

hi sacred i am totally with you like you say they is very little choice for us who dont drink alchoholic beverages  etc etc i myself dont touch it at all and i do find the places we go i am ended up with a water or at best a diet coke it gets so boring


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## bev (Jun 4, 2009)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...ewood-makes-mistakes-kill-him.html#addComment


Speaking of Dominic Littlewood here is an article about his life with diabetes. Some idiot has posted underneath saying diabetics shouldnt eat sugar etc ......Bev


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## SacredHeart (Jun 4, 2009)

Ah yes, well what do you expect from The Daily Fail? Sorry, but my distaste for the Fail knows no bounds. 

However, that's actually not a bad article, as I mentioned over in the news forum. I think Dominic Littlewood isn't a bad spokesperson for diabetes. However that commenter should be hung from the rafters by their toes. Grrr


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## Einstein (Jun 4, 2009)

Bev,

the lack of light or diet drinks not only in pubs and the likes is terrible, its also the case in garages, where there is coke or pepsi and whooo there is diet pepsi or pepsi max and/or diet coke or coke zero - yippee!

Why they can't at least sell plain, good old lemonade, rather than sprite or 7up I haven't worked out.

Tesco is also bad for stocking the 0.5 litre bottles of soft drinks, especially diet variations... I use these size drinks in the car. Now, I decant a large bottle into the .5l bottles as its sooo much cheaper - but you can't do that in a pub!

There needs to be something done about this.

Good luck!


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## Steff (Jun 4, 2009)

Einstein said:


> Bev,
> 
> the lack of light or diet drinks not only in pubs and the likes is terrible, its also the case in garages, where there is coke or pepsi and whooo there is diet pepsi or pepsi max and/or diet coke or coke zero - yippee!
> 
> ...



totally agree about tesco the amount of times i have walked down the drink aisle looking for abit of variety away from diet coke and came away empty handed is disgusting , these peopls in these stores need to realise what they stock in there shops has to cover all bases they are a hell of alot of us diabetics out there we need choices as well


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## bev (Jun 4, 2009)

Today i got cream soda, dandelion and burdock, cherryade,limeade, and cloudy lemonade - all sugar free from Sainsburys, can also get them in asda. But they dont have them in smaller bottles or cans.Bev


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## Steff (Jun 4, 2009)

goodness me dandelion and burdock not had that since i was little, i tend to do more of my shopping in asda these days and i go for the squashes seems more variety on flavour on them


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## bev (Jun 4, 2009)

Yeh we get squashes too - and Alex is totally fed up of diet coke or water when we are out aswell. Anyway, off to check him before bed - night night! Bev


p.s. I have been making him lolly ices with the lemonade and they are really nice if you add a bit of extra sugar free squash!


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## Steff (Jun 4, 2009)

night bev ty for that tip would be nice as i have little lad who would really like them and it has been the perfect weather xx

sweetdreams


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## sweetsatin (Jun 4, 2009)

I too am with you there. I had an argument in a cafe Just yesterday over this. 
I don't drink alcohol, tea or coffee, can't stand diet coke either yuk.
I get a big variety of no added sugar drinks in Morrisons, they have a fantastic choice of drinks there i get 2  2litre bottles for 80p
I am writing to trading standards to see where i go from there.
The lack of these drinks is dreadfull.


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## Einstein (Jun 4, 2009)

bev said:


> Today i got cream soda, dandelion and burdock, cherryade,limeade, and cloudy lemonade - all sugar free from Sainsburys, can also get them in asda. But they dont have them in smaller bottles or cans.Bev


 

Waitrose do big bottles of a variety of diet drinks and also ginger beer and a few others in cans..

Not good is it?


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## Einstein (Jun 4, 2009)

sweetsatin said:


> I too am with you there. I had an argument in a cafe Just yesterday over this.
> I don't drink alcohol, tea or coffee, can't stand diet coke either yuk.
> I get a big variety of no added sugar drinks in Morrisons, they have a fantastic choice of drinks there i get 2 2litre bottles for 80p
> I am writing to trading standards to see where i go from there.
> The lack of these drinks is dreadfull.


 
Its not really anything to do with trading standards, in reality its customer demand and what a buyer considers the customer base consuming.

If they only have coke or diet coke then people will buy one or the other. If they then have 10 other soft drinks, they will probably sell only a few cans more and will find some lines just won't sell, so they are left with old stock reaching its use by date.

The one way is to ensure the we don't buy drinks with meals and get everyone to do this.. over time the business owners must realise that for 3 days their sale of soft drinks just stopped.

A national awareness campaign is needed, perhaps DUK is a good engine to use.

Maybe, there is a lump of legislation, the Disability Descrimination Act (DDA) includes diabetics as disabled. If a business has no choice of product or access to their service to disabled customers then they could be prosecuted under the DDA.

Other than that, I can think of no other legislation could force them to change - purely customer demand!


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## insulinaddict09 (Jun 5, 2009)

bev said:


> Yeh we get squashes too - and Alex is totally fed up of diet coke or water when we are out aswell. Anyway, off to check him before bed - night night! Bev
> 
> 
> p.s. I have been making him lolly ices with the lemonade and they are really nice if you add a bit of extra sugar free squash!



hey thanks for the tip Bev , I'll be trying that when ive been shopping 

tomorrow , Ive got a lolly making thingy in the cupboard . I'll let you all know

how it goes ..


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## insulinaddict09 (Jun 5, 2009)

Well i usually drink Vodka or diet coke , or diet pepsi anyway, it would be 

nice to have more choice though and I will back anything you have planned .

just let me know in the thread or PM me


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## Hazel (Jun 5, 2009)

a twist on this thread is that I no longer accept 'on tap' diet coke as I have been given regular coke by mistake.

now when I go out I tend to stick to bottled water or bottled sparkling water, bottled or canned diet drinks, and yes, there is a limited supply of diet drinks in many pubs.

my local Morrisons store has rows of diet drinks, abeit they are all 2 litre bottles.   I personally do not like the size, as unless you drink them within a day of opening, they are flat - but at least I have a choice.

as Einstein says - change by public demand is the only way forward.  I have seen this first hand, as I could never find an alternative to wheat, and there were never any gluten free foods.  I kicked up a stooshie (a fuss) and now there is a whole range.  Now I do not think my local store changed just on my say so, but it added weight to the argument.   

people power rules

Hazel


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## insulinaddict09 (Jun 5, 2009)

Yes Hazel people power works and we have large numbers of diabetics who 

all want the same so we should be able to do something surely.


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## Proudspirit (Jun 5, 2009)

I only drink diet coke so haven't noticed the lack of other drinks in bars etc but on a recent holiday i was given regular coke from a machine and told it was diet.. luckily we noticed and the lady appologised. Anyway i'm only going to have drinks from machines if i can see them pouring it! 

Good luck on your plight, think the One show would take up this story. 

Julie x


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## sofaraway (Jun 5, 2009)

I love diet coke/pepsi max so it doesn't bother me usually when out in pubs/restaurants. Although I do like an archers and lemonade on occasion, and I've never come across a diet lemonade in a pub, so have to just go with the full sugar version. 

I have been given normal coke by mistake a few times, but they have always changed it with no fuss.

Anyone know how many carbs in those J20 drinks? I don't normally drink fruit juice but they are watered down aren't they? so maybe not too bad?


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## MCH (Jun 5, 2009)

In my neck of the woods, we can often also get the great stallwart - Diet Irn Bru! (Our other national drink here.)

I recently once managed a diet Sprite, but think they must have made a mistake with their order as they have never had it since 

When we used to go out (20 years ago or thereabouts), my husband and I used to ask for 2 Diet Cokes and if they said no, we BOTH had tap water. It took a lot of persevering, but eventually one day, the place said they had Diet Coke . We were so pleased and went home feeling we had really achieved something!


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## coldclarity (Jun 5, 2009)

sofaraway said:


> Anyone know how many carbs in those J20 drinks? I don't normally drink fruit juice but they are watered down aren't they? so maybe not too bad?


http://www.britvic.com/Flavour.aspx?id=118

I don't really like diet coke, but it's better than diet lemonade so I've got used to it. More choice would be lovely, but I'm not a fan of diet fizzy drinks really. Aren't they quite bad for you in their own way? I'm suspicius of all the artificial sweeteners!


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## Einstein (Jun 5, 2009)

Proudspirit said:


> I only drink diet coke so haven't noticed the lack of other drinks in bars etc but on a recent holiday i was given regular coke from a machine and told it was diet.. luckily we noticed and the lady appologised. Anyway i'm only going to have drinks from machines if i can see them pouring it!
> 
> Good luck on your plight, think the One show would take up this story.
> 
> Julie x


 

I've found that when you've been given normal coke/pepsi rather than diet if you 'spill' some onto a solid surface, normal will become sticky or tacky, where diet doesn't it just dries - the sugar.

The real taste issue is pepsi max - I like it, but I can't tell the difference between pepsi and pepsi max, pepsi and diet pepsi I know, coke and diet coke I know, coke and coke zero (yuk) I know.

If I can't see them pour it, I don't drink it. Same with any drink in a bar, especially from uni days, where some joker used to put vodka in anything, vodka makes me ill, not drunk, ill - I can usually smell it, but if its in certain drinks I can't.

So everything has to be prepared in front of me.


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## Einstein (Jun 5, 2009)

MCH said:


> In my neck of the woods, we can often also get the great stallwart - Diet Irn Bru! (Our other national drink here.)
> 
> I recently once managed a diet Sprite, but think they must have made a mistake with their order as they have never had it since
> 
> When we used to go out (20 years ago or thereabouts), my husband and I used to ask for 2 Diet Cokes and if they said no, we BOTH had tap water. It took a lot of persevering, but eventually one day, the place said they had Diet Coke . We were so pleased and went home feeling we had really achieved something!


 
Diet Irn Brew is great! Tescos if you're lucky sometimes stock it.
Waitrose diet ginger beer is also good, I think its also in cans as well as 2l bottles.


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## Proudspirit (Jun 6, 2009)

I was working at the local leisure centre yesterday, went into their "healthy eating" cafe/bar and you are dead right there wasn't any other dietdrink apart from Diet coke... My friends daughter is Type 1 and is only 5, she is sick of giving her diet coke too. 

Let me know if i can be of any help?

Julie x


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## Copepod (Jun 6, 2009)

Did the cafe serve water or milk? 

Personally, I object (on environmental grounds) to bottled drinking water, so always ask for tap water if there is nothing else I can drink. Although as I drink tea, coffee and diet coke, there is usually a choice. I appreciate that 5 year olds don't usually drink tea or coffee.


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## Northerner (Jun 6, 2009)

I do find it a restriction since I became diabetic. Before, if not drinking beer, I would have fruit juice, or sometimes milk in caf?s (but then they often don't have skimmed!), but now both these would push my sugars up. I've never liked diet coke, or coke generally. Now if I go to the pub I just drink beer as I know how it affects me and I find I don't need to cover it with insulin, plus I wouldn't know if they'd given me diet or ordinary coke from the taste.


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## mikep1979 (Jun 6, 2009)

i to tend to stick to beer when out as i also dont need to cover it with insulin and find it tastes better than diet coke etc.


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## Einstein (Jun 6, 2009)

Northerner said:


> I do find it a restriction since I became diabetic. Before, if not drinking beer, I would have fruit juice, or sometimes milk in caf?s (but then they often don't have skimmed!), but now both these would push my sugars up. I've never liked diet coke, or coke generally. Now if I go to the pub I just drink beer as I know how it affects me and I find I don't need to cover it with insulin, plus I wouldn't know if they'd given me diet or ordinary coke from the taste.


 

Most of the chain coffee shops will have skimmed milk, cheaper to buy a pint and take it with you to your local greasy spoon though.

Many milky continental coffees are actually easier to make if the milk is skimmed or semi skimmed, full fat his hardwork to froth.

I've never got used to drinking since being on insulin, from what you chaps are saying, leaving insulin at home is the best solution to this


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## Northerner (Jun 6, 2009)

Einstein said:


> ...I've never got used to drinking since being on insulin, from what you chaps are saying, leaving insulin at home is the best solution to this



If anything, I will take less insulin if going for a drink. I usually have some food and insulin before I leave home, then drink, then take my basal when I get home, have a snack and Robert is your Father's brother!

I haven't been in a 'coffee shop' since they started giving hundreds of names to their coffee - I could just about cope with cappucino, then it all went far too ridiculous for me! Mind you, I was the same with Subway - I only ever went in there once and it felt like torture going along the line having to make decisions about this, that and the other - I just wanted a cheese and tomato sandwich for goodness' sake!


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## insulinaddict09 (Jun 6, 2009)

Northerner said:


> If anything, I will take less insulin if going for a drink. I usually have some food and insulin before I leave home, then drink, then take my basal when I get home, have a snack and Robert is your Father's brother!
> 
> I haven't been in a 'coffee shop' since they started giving hundreds of names to their coffee - I could just about cope with cappucino, then it all went far too ridiculous for me! Mind you, I was the same with Subway - I only ever went in there once and it felt like torture going along the line having to make decisions about this, that and the other - I just wanted a cheese and tomato sandwich for goodness' sake!



Ha ha yes , a coffee is a bl**dy coffee for gods sake


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## Einstein (Jun 6, 2009)

Northerner said:


> If anything, I will take less insulin if going for a drink. I usually have some food and insulin before I leave home, then drink, then take my basal when I get home, have a snack and Robert is your Father's brother!
> 
> I haven't been in a 'coffee shop' since they started giving hundreds of names to their coffee - I could just about cope with cappucino, then it all went far too ridiculous for me! Mind you, I was the same with Subway - I only ever went in there once and it felt like torture going along the line having to make decisions about this, that and the other - I just wanted a cheese and tomato sandwich for goodness' sake!


 

Agreed on the coffee names, Latte, Cappucino, espresso, fine... double mocha googly ganglers??/ What!

As for subway, I like the fact I choose whats in MY sandwich, once you have worked it out, its very simple - even for me!


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## Northerner (Jun 6, 2009)

Einstein said:


> Agreed on the coffee names, Latte, Cappucino, espresso, fine... double mocha googly ganglers??/ What!
> 
> As for subway, I like the fact I choose whats in MY sandwich, once you have worked it out, its very simple - even for me!



I think that, when buying sandwiches, as opposed to making my own I like to see a selection and think 'Oh! that sounds nice', rather than having to think about it further - although I might think differently now that I am diabetic. It's a trait of mine that I can only make decisions easily when surrounded by people who can't!


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## Einstein (Jun 6, 2009)

Northerner said:


> I think that, when buying sandwiches, as opposed to making my own I like to see a selection and think 'Oh! that sounds nice', rather than having to think about it further - although I might think differently now that I am diabetic. It's a trait of mine that I can only make decisions easily when surrounded by people who can't!


 
Because I don't eat pork or shellfish I've always been limited in what I can have in pre-packed sandwiches, so deciding, beef or chicken, with or without cheese any or no dressing, what salad is great. And you know its fresh!

Plus subway for eating out is healthy and is reasonable value - still not as cheap as my home made bread though  Or as good


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## Einstein (Jun 6, 2009)

I've just popped to my local Sainsburys (10 miles away) and was surprised by their range of no sugar added soft drinks, mainly fizzy and mostly 2l bottles.

Pretty good prices to, picked a couple up to try them, I think Tescos is missing something here...

Now to get pubs and the likes to stock more of them.


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## mikep1979 (Jun 7, 2009)

i hate subway with a vengance!!!!!!! used to love it at one point but i got food poisoning from our local one and since then havent been in ANY others.

as for sugar free pop i just stick to corpy pop hehehehehe


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## bev (Jun 7, 2009)

He he - 'corpy pop'! I havent heard that phrase for years Mike! Bev


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## Einstein (Jun 7, 2009)

bev said:


> He he - 'corpy pop'! I havent heard that phrase for years Mike! Bev


 

Corporation pop - Water - tap water to be more prescise... for those who don't know!


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## mikep1979 (Jun 7, 2009)

bev said:


> He he - 'corpy pop'! I havent heard that phrase for years Mike! Bev



well what can i say i love to talk the lingo hehehehehe


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## bev (Jun 7, 2009)

David, yes i did - but i have been away too long and become 'southernised' i think! Bev


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## Einstein (Jun 7, 2009)

bev said:


> David, yes i did - but i have been away too long and become 'southernised' i think! Bev


 

I also read your original comment too quickly, and edited my response for our southern friend who don't know what free drinks are


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## mikep1979 (Jun 7, 2009)

Einstein said:


> I also read your original comment too quickly, and edited my response for our southern friend who don't know what free drinks are



hehehehehehe well there is something about corpy pop thats so refreshing...................... oh yeah its that its free


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## Munjeeta (Jun 7, 2009)

I seem to have missed most of this thread but would definitely definitely be up for trying to make more diet drinks available in bars. I also get so fed up of only really having diet coke on offer. Although I do find a good old gin and tonic or 3 is normally best for my sugars the morning after. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help!


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## Einstein (Jun 7, 2009)

Munjeeta said:


> I seem to have missed most of this thread but would definitely definitely be up for trying to make more diet drinks available in bars. I also get so fed up of only really having diet coke on offer. Although I do find a good old gin and tonic or 3 is normally best for my sugars the morning after. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help!


 

Get the drinks in! 

Mines a large one!

Cheers Hic....


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## Mand (Jun 7, 2009)

I agree that there should be more variety of diet drinks available in pubs, restaurants etc. When i eat out with my son he only has the choice of diet coke or water. That's ok for the odd meal out but when we are on holiday in this country and eating out more frequently he has to have diet coke every night which seems so unfair. The supermarkets have a good choice so why can't pubs, restuarants etc have more choice? 
Also i get very nervous with diet coke on tap! How do i know they have pressed the right button! 
I would be happy to support any ideas to make some changes about this.
Sorry if i have repeated what others have said but i do not have time to read through all the posts today.


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## DiabeticDave (Jun 7, 2009)

Einstein said:


> Corporation pop - Water - tap water to be more prescise... for those who don't know!




Always called it 'council pop'.........


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## Northerner (Jun 7, 2009)

DiabeticDave said:


> Always called it 'council pop'.........



Corporation wine where I come from!

Perhaps the trade organisations might respond to a call - Licensed Victuallers Association, perhaps?


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## Munjeeta (Jun 7, 2009)

Einstein said:


> Get the drinks in!
> 
> Mines a large one!
> 
> Cheers Hic....



Haha... You'd be lucky on a teacher's wage!


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## rossi_mac (Jun 7, 2009)

Wow what a long thread, interesting mind.

Re pubs etc, when I was first diagnosed i cut down on the old alcohol friend of mine, and the first visit to a pub, I had several refreshing pints of lime & soda water, I cannot reccomend it enough. But also agree with you all that selection is poor, and I would like to see more. However I also note what Einstein said, they are there to make money at the end of the day and they won't if they have the largest choice in the world for all of us!

As for what booze to drink, I'm still learning, but trying to play it safe, by testing lots and eating.

As for coffee, I hate ordering one in those shops, I  drink tea you see, and get vastly confused when buying someone a coffee! So many choices & options to go wrong at!

I too like Subway, but the last 6months plus have been an active fan of bread machines and making sarnies at home.

I didn't know lil Dom Littlewood was one of us!


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## insulinaddict09 (Jun 8, 2009)

Good point , I didnt know Dominic Littlewood was Diabetic , does anyone 

know if he is type 1 or type 2?


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## Steff (Jun 8, 2009)

he was diagnosed with type 1 33 years ago


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## Lizzie (Jun 8, 2009)

I totally agree, there should be more available. A few years back when all the fizzy drinks rebranded from 'diet' to 'zero' there was a burst where there were loads available in shops but now they don't seem to do them any more.


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## mikep1979 (Jun 8, 2009)

my local (well old local) do stock a huge range of diet and zero drinks mixers in. also lots of the bars in liverpool city centre stock diet and always make a point of telling you which drink has the diet in.

i agree that more needs to be done with a lot of other places, but if you look at the fact that most acoholic drinks are full of sugar anyway they will just not see the point of having diet mixers.


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## Lizzie (Jun 8, 2009)

mikep1979 said:


> my local (well old local) do stock a huge range of diet and zero drinks mixers in. also lots of the bars in liverpool city centre stock diet and always make a point of telling you which drink has the diet in.
> 
> i agree that more needs to be done with a lot of other places, but if you look at the fact that most acoholic drinks are full of sugar anyway they will just not see the point of having diet mixers.



But these drinks are not 'mixers' with alcohol they are drinks in their own right. 

Think of the number of different alcohols available in your average pub, off licence or shop. Think of the number of different brands and varieties of any single type of alcohol, for example beer, which are available. Why do alcohol drinkers get this variety and not non-drinkers? Does the shop/pub/off licence really make money from stocking so many varieties? If the argument is that they would lose money from adding a couple of extra diet drinks to their dispenser, how come they don't lose money from having such a large number of different beers and ales, or spirits or whatever? Surely there aren't that many fans of obscure ales with bizarre names or whatever for example, and yet they still remain on the drinks list and I would have thought they would be more expensive for the pub to buy in than diet drinks.


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## mikep1979 (Jun 8, 2009)

Lizzie said:


> But these drinks are not 'mixers' with alcohol they are drinks in their own right.
> 
> Think of the number of different alcohols available in your average pub, off licence or shop. Think of the number of different brands and varieties of any single type of alcohol, for example beer, which are available. Why do alcohol drinkers get this variety and not non-drinkers? Does the shop/pub/off licence really make money from stocking so many varieties? If the argument is that they would lose money from adding a couple of extra diet drinks to their dispenser, how come they don't lose money from having such a large number of different beers and ales, or spirits or whatever? Surely there aren't that many fans of obscure ales with bizarre names or whatever for example, and yet they still remain on the drinks list and I would have thought they would be more expensive for the pub to buy in than diet drinks.



for things like beers it does actually make a huge difference to how much you will sell as to what you stock. most people will drink carling fosters and carlsberg. some drink stella but not many. now think of the spirits in pubs to. if you sell smirnoff vodka it is as a single or double but is costly, if you have a cheeper brand it allows you to do house doubles at a discount to the punter and still make you a good profit.

i totally agree with the fact non drinkers are simply not given a lot of choice in diet and sugar free drinks in pubs, but it is after all a business and your local pub/shop/supermarket etc wont stock what dont sell as it is dead space.


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## Lizzie (Jun 8, 2009)

mikep1979 said:


> for things like beers it does actually make a huge difference to how much you will sell as to what you stock. most people will drink carling fosters and carlsberg. some drink stella but not many. now think of the spirits in pubs to. if you sell smirnoff vodka it is as a single or double but is costly, if you have a cheeper brand it allows you to do house doubles at a discount to the punter and still make you a good profit.
> 
> i totally agree with the fact non drinkers are simply not given a lot of choice in diet and sugar free drinks in pubs, but it is after all a business and your local pub/shop/supermarket etc wont stock what dont sell as it is dead space.



But my point is that lots of places sell many more obscure beer brands on top of the popular ones you name - surely this is 'dead space' also? What about pubs selling 'real ales' or pubs with walls full of different spirits, surely they can't sell many of each one?


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## mikep1979 (Jun 8, 2009)

Lizzie said:


> But my point is that lots of places sell many more obscure beer brands on top of the popular ones you name - surely this is 'dead space' also? What about pubs selling 'real ales' or pubs with walls full of different spirits, surely they can't sell many of each one?



you would be srprised at what acoholic drinks they can sell and at a profit to. my mate who used to have a bar stocked a beer called sapporo and had it imported from japan. was a lovely brew and after 3 weeks of stocking it it was his most popular seller. as for spirits well i have been to bars that stock over 50 different types of vodka, tequila and rum!!!!! it was all they sold. the key here is that everyone (well nearly) who goes in to a bar will have an alcoholic drink at some point. even if you go to a pub that does breakfast they can offer you a pint with it.

as i say i totally agree it is wrong, but they are after all just running a business and if it gets more profit in by selling ale they will.


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## Einstein (Jun 8, 2009)

Lizzie said:


> But my point is that lots of places sell many more obscure beer brands on top of the popular ones you name - surely this is 'dead space' also? What about pubs selling 'real ales' or pubs with walls full of different spirits, surely they can't sell many of each one?


 
With real ales, people will go to specific pubs because they have guest drinks each week, spirits, well typically there are a lot, but often on single malts are stocked in multiple varieties. Spirits tend not to have a use by date as they are only going to evaporate, so the cost can be recovered over a year, two, perhaps more.

Soft drinks may only have a 6 or 12 month life cycle, if they aren't sold they go in the bin. Also, cans or bottles of soft drinks take up a lot of space in fridges, cellars and under bars, where a bottle of gin, takes the space of less than three cans of coke. Coke arrives in cases of 24 cans.

I don't know with a captive audience if pubs will change, if we're there on our own and they only have water or diet coke we can walkout, if we're with friends, and one person doesn't really like what they have are the other 5 going to walk out as well?

Traditionally, pubs have changed when it fits in with them, not before or due to customer demand, unless generated by the drinks manufacturers e.g. alcopops, J20 etc.

Not sure how we force change here...


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## mikep1979 (Jun 8, 2009)

Einstein said:


> With real ales, people will go to specific pubs because they have guest drinks each week, spirits, well typically there are a lot, but often on single malts are stocked in multiple varieties. Spirits tend not to have a use by date as they are only going to evaporate, so the cost can be recovered over a year, two, perhaps more.
> 
> Soft drinks may only have a 6 or 12 month life cycle, if they aren't sold they go in the bin. Also, cans or bottles of soft drinks take up a lot of space in fridges, cellars and under bars, where a bottle of gin, takes the space of less than three cans of coke. Coke arrives in cases of 24 cans.
> 
> ...



i wouldnt like to think we will. it is gonna be something if we did tho.


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## rossi_mac (Jun 8, 2009)

Everything Einstein says make a hell of a lot of sense, I guess apart from a national campaign the other answer which no one will particularly like is to wait. 

Tastes do change and deamnd changes and pubs will eventually see that, maybe a little late, we're not the only group that would appreciate a wider range, but for example you can now have a nice tea or coffee in a pub. Also from my personal view I'm sure that more youngsters, by that I mean 18 (or under tut) to early twenties are going to pubs and not drinking. I'm not saying there aren't those that do nothing but booze but i think there are more t-toallers that frequent pubs who are young that there were say 10-15 years ago. So given time they will maybe along with us and other groups of people force some establishments to stock a grater range of stock, so long as they have the space for them.

just a thought!


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## Einstein (Jun 8, 2009)

rossi_mac said:


> Everything Einstein says make a hell of a lot of sense, I guess apart from a national campaign the other answer which no one will particularly like is to wait.
> 
> Tastes do change and deamnd changes and pubs will eventually see that, maybe a little late, we're not the only group that would appreciate a wider range, but for example you can now have a nice tea or coffee in a pub. Also from my personal view I'm sure that more youngsters, by that I mean 18 (or under tut) to early twenties are going to pubs and not drinking. I'm not saying there aren't those that do nothing but booze but i think there are more t-toallers that frequent pubs who are young that there were say 10-15 years ago. So given time they will maybe along with us and other groups of people force some establishments to stock a grater range of stock, so long as they have the space for them.
> 
> just a thought!


 
The issue is for young and non-diabetic drinkers there is so much they can mix with lemonade, lime, orange, blackcurrent and wham four drinks are availabe - lemonade is on tap, cordials by the bottle and they use enough of it all to get by.

Tea and coffee, well, the base materials, equipment and you're in business, you don't need whole amounts of real estate to stock it in.

I am stumped on how it changes - unless they go diet lemonade (I dont' think there is any taste difference between diet and non-diet lemonade, cordials the same gives us the same options and choices as the non-diabetic drinker.


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## mikep1979 (Jun 8, 2009)

Einstein said:


> The issue is for young and non-diabetic drinkers there is so much they can mix with lemonade, lime, orange, blackcurrent and wham four drinks are availabe - lemonade is on tap, cordials by the bottle and they use enough of it all to get by.
> 
> Tea and coffee, well, the base materials, equipment and you're in business, you don't need whole amounts of real estate to stock it in.
> 
> I am stumped on how it changes - unless they go diet lemonade (I dont' think there is any taste difference between diet and non-diet lemonade, cordials the same gives us the same options and choices as the non-diabetic drinker.



agreed it dont take a lot to set it up, but as with all business why for out for something that might take a few months even a year to pay for itself????

most bars are in a tough place as it is at the minute and need to cost cut so are looking to shelve the expansion plans.


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## Einstein (Jun 8, 2009)

mikep1979 said:


> agreed it dont take a lot to set it up, but as with all business why for out for something that might take a few months even a year to pay for itself????
> 
> most bars are in a tough place as it is at the minute and need to cost cut so are looking to shelve the expansion plans.


 
And the cost of buying diet or low/no sugar lemonade and cordials over regular is how much now? There isn't a premium on diet products.

Given the cost of a bottle of squash, how many half pint glasses you'll get from it a ?1.50 a glass, there is how much profit? Even if they use lemonade (80p a 2l bottle)!

Most publicans would rather flog you a pint of coke than a pint of beer today - more profit.


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## mikep1979 (Jun 8, 2009)

Einstein said:


> And the cost of buying diet or low/no sugar lemonade and cordials over regular is how much now? There isn't a premium on diet products.
> 
> Given the cost of a bottle of squash, how many half pint glasses you'll get from it a ?1.50 a glass, there is how much profit? Even if they use lemonade (80p a 2l bottle)!
> 
> Most publicans would rather flog you a pint of coke than a pint of beer today - more profit.



lol i was on the tea and coffee side of it hehehehehehehe

lol i do agree that a lot are pushing soft drinks now and cordial to. heck my grandads old local always charge you for a full price cordial drink even if you just want a shot in your drink!!!! shocker!!!!!


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## insulinaddict09 (Jun 8, 2009)

Mines a triple neat smirnoff , with a diet coke chaser


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## aymes (Jun 8, 2009)

Einstein said:


> And the cost of buying diet or low/no sugar lemonade and cordials over regular is how much now? There isn't a premium on diet products.
> 
> Given the cost of a bottle of squash, how many half pint glasses you'll get from it a ?1.50 a glass, there is how much profit? Even if they use lemonade (80p a 2l bottle)!
> 
> Most publicans would rather flog you a pint of coke than a pint of beer today - more profit.



Very true, in most places it is the soft drinks that give the best profit margins. It's going back a few years now to my student days when I worked in a bar but the post mix (fizzy drinks on tap) then cost the bar around 8p to serve, and they sold them for, I think it was, about ?1.20!


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## hellbell84 (Jun 9, 2009)

this thread is an issue so very dear to my heart!!!

im sick and tired of going out with mates and being stuck having diet coke or water

i dont understand why they cant have things like COKE ZERO or FANTA SUGAR FREE on tap, as not only are we ALL trying to do something with our waist bands but it also helps people with diabetes out by not making us feel like hermits as at least then, we will have a choice, just like everyone else

what also annoys me is when you ask for a DIET coke and they give you normal, but i feel like such a nob going back saying "sorry this isnt diet" that i just drink it anyways

A WHOLE NEW BRANDING SYSTEM NEEDS TO HAPPEN throughout the bar and nightclub industry to enlighten, not just diabetics but those who are watching their waistlines

something needs to be done about this and to be honest, im surprised programmes such as Dragons Den havent picked up on this niche on the market

rant over

*sips sugar free squash for the rest of the day*

Enjoy xxxx


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## Steff (Jun 9, 2009)

hi hellbell im totally with you on the asking for diet coke and gettin normal coke about 4 weeks ago i was in the pub having sunday lunch and sipped my coke realising it was normal coke i took it back , the bar attendant looked at me like i was reading him his lasts right or something , i'm not usually one that maes a fuss but on that occasion i did


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## Lizzie (Jun 9, 2009)

Einstein said:


> The issue is for young and non-diabetic drinkers there is so much they can mix with lemonade, lime, orange, blackcurrent and wham four drinks are availabe - lemonade is on tap, cordials by the bottle and they use enough of it all to get by.
> 
> Tea and coffee, well, the base materials, equipment and you're in business, you don't need whole amounts of real estate to stock it in.
> 
> I am stumped on how it changes - unless they go diet lemonade (I dont' think there is any taste difference between diet and non-diet lemonade, cordials the same gives us the same options and choices as the non-diabetic drinker.



But aren't cordials jam packed with sugar? I always thought they were like a super-sugary version of fruit squash.

I don't really like to have tea and coffee in pubs, they don't have much choice available.

If lemonade is available it tends to be in the form of full sugar Sprite.

I don't really like pubs personally, I don't see the point of paying extra for your drink to cover their overheads, to sit in somewhere loud and noisy or even stand outside on the pavement if too crowded. If I get alcohol it tends to be from a supermarket to drink at home where its cheaper and more comfortable. But sometimes you can't avoid it, if out with friends or family and they want to go in, or if you have a work do. And it isn't just pubs, many shops are the same with the 500ml drinks in the fridge.


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## mikep1979 (Jun 9, 2009)

Lizzie said:


> But aren't cordials jam packed with sugar? I always thought they were like a super-sugary version of fruit squash.
> 
> I don't really like to have tea and coffee in pubs, they don't have much choice available.
> 
> ...



it would be great to see a whole range of sugar free drinks in bars and the likes. i would be more than happy to see them lol

as for cordial in not sure what the individual bar stocks as it is usually the cheapest stuff they can get hold of.


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## Einstein (Jun 9, 2009)

Lizzie said:


> But aren't cordials jam packed with sugar? I always thought they were like a super-sugary version of fruit squash.
> 
> I don't really like to have tea and coffee in pubs, they don't have much choice available.
> 
> ...


 
Yes, cordials have sugar in them, but in half a pint of lemonade a splash of cordial isn't likely to cause too much harm, granted 5 pints later and more than a splash does add up.

Some pubs where dining is a reasonable part of their business will have a half decent coffee machine - someone to use it is another matter.

If pubs switched to leading brand diet lemonade and had low sugar cordials only ONLY those options then everyone would be getting the same and cordials and lemonade don't taste differently if they are diet or normal, unlike coke and pepsi.

Perhaps the issue with draft drinks is just what options are available from the suppliers of the syrup thats mixed with the water and gas to make the drink at the tap. If diet lemonade can't be bought that way, then there isn't much the publican can do about it. Other than having bottles on the counter.


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## mikep1979 (Jun 9, 2009)

Einstein said:


> Yes, cordials have sugar in them, but in half a pint of lemonade a splash of cordial isn't likely to cause too much harm, granted 5 pints later and more than a splash does add up.
> 
> Some pubs where dining is a reasonable part of their business will have a half decent coffee machine - someone to use it is another matter.
> 
> ...



diet lemo and sprite zero and the likes all can be bought as a post mix (i.e from the tap draft) same as normal coke lemo and the likes. the big difference is in price. also the fact that some people wont drink diet at all and the costs for having a new line pulled so you have diets and zero's on one and regulars on the other is astronomical!!!!! it is somewhere in the ?2500 bracket for a single beer line to be pulled and that is for one drink not 3/4/5 drinks. the companies who make it hgarder for the publicans are the breweries and coca cola schwepps as they price the landlords out of doing this.


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## Einstein (Jun 9, 2009)

mikep1979 said:


> diet lemo and sprite zero and the likes all can be bought as a post mix (i.e from the tap draft) same as normal coke lemo and the likes. the big difference is in price. also the fact that some people wont drink diet at all and the costs for having a new line pulled so you have diets and zero's on one and regulars on the other is astronomical!!!!! it is somewhere in the ?2500 bracket for a single beer line to be pulled and that is for one drink not 3/4/5 drinks. the companies who make it hgarder for the publicans are the breweries and coca cola schwepps as they price the landlords out of doing this.


 

Bottles then! We all complain because they are too fizzy or too cold - solves both problems and saves money!

Win win!


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## mikep1979 (Jun 9, 2009)

Einstein said:


> Bottles then! We all complain because they are too fizzy or too cold - solves both problems and saves money!
> 
> Win win!



not really as the landlord of a pub is tied to a certain brewery who will TELL him what bottles he is allowd to stock. if he is found to deviate from this and i mean even with soft drinks he can in some cases loose his tenancey as he is after all only "looking after" the premises for the brewery. not worth the risks for them.


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## Einstein (Jun 9, 2009)

mikep1979 said:


> not really as the landlord of a pub is tied to a certain brewery who will TELL him what bottles he is allowd to stock. if he is found to deviate from this and i mean even with soft drinks he can in some cases loose his tenancey as he is after all only "looking after" the premises for the brewery. not worth the risks for them.


 
So where do you go then Mike? I guess as the house is usually seeing the fat profit from the sale of soft drinks and the manufacturers hardly any then they lines won't be fed free of charge as in the case of new pumps going on the bar, where the distribution of the profit per pint sold is different.

It also comes down to the real size of the market, perhaps out of 10 people drinking only one maybe on soft drinks, and with the uptake of the J20 (and the likes) of fruit juices this is less still for soft drinks.

As such there isn't any commercial pressure or incentive to provide anything other than there already is.

While there are a significant number of diabetics, each walking into a pub and saying to the landlord we want you to stock a wider range of diet drinks isn't really going to hit any saturation.

I wonder if under the DDA there is any obligation? After all they have to provide access and products/services to the disabled, so we can enter, and they provide water and diet coke - is that really offering a true selection and range or is it discriminating against diabetics by restricting their choice to two out of perhaps 50 or 100 drinks that a non-diabetic could consume on the premises?

Maybe a tint of the HRA as well thrown in for good measure?

But then it needs to be taken against every pub in the country! And enforced.

Ho humm. Hip flask me thinks


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## mikep1979 (Jun 9, 2009)

Einstein said:


> So where do you go then Mike? I guess as the house is usually seeing the fat profit from the sale of soft drinks and the manufacturers hardly any then they lines won't be fed free of charge as in the case of new pumps going on the bar, where the distribution of the profit per pint sold is different.
> 
> It also comes down to the real size of the market, perhaps out of 10 people drinking only one maybe on soft drinks, and with the uptake of the J20 (and the likes) of fruit juices this is less still for soft drinks.
> 
> ...





well as of now i dont have a local (not found one yet) but i used to drink in the jolly miller on queens drive quite a bit.

it is the manafactures who make the tidy profit and not the house. they may buy it in for 8p a small glass and sell it at ?1.20 but if you take into account the rates they pay then it is down to about 10p profit. alll along the brewery is trying to squeeze more from the succesful landlords as they will have rate increases, but may have to pass this on in the shape of an increase in the cost of your pint so customers will go to a pub where the drink is a little cheaper hence the cycle starts again.

it really is a no win situation at all.

a hip flask will be the best choice all around mate hehehehehe


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